E885 Ask Nick - The Best Bangsgiving Ever

Summary

The Viall Files: Episode E885 - Ask Nick: The Best Bangsgiving Ever

Release Date: February 17, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode E885 of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall delves into complex relationship dynamics through listener call-ins. This episode, titled "Ask Nick - The Best Bangsgiving Ever," primarily focuses on Jessica's Thanksgiving experience that spiraled into unexpected relationship complications. Additionally, the episode features Dakota's struggles with family inclusion and Max's heartbreaking breakup during a family crisis. Nick, alongside co-host Natalie Joy and the Household, provides insightful advice to navigate these intricate personal challenges.

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Jessica's Thanksgiving Conundrum

Timestamp: [04:18] - [21:22]

Jessica, a 27-year-old listener, calls in seeking advice after hooking up with Brad, her roommate's friend who recently ended an eight-year relationship with his ex, Emily. What was intended to be a lighthearted Thanksgiving hookup quickly became entangled in emotional complications.

Background and Hookup

Jessica explains, "I hooked up with my roommate slash best friend's friend who just got out of an eight-year relationship with her other friend." This connection intended to be casual turned into a "situationship" as Brad began spending more time with Jessica, leading to deeper emotional involvement.

Emerging Issues

One of the primary concerns arose when Jessica's best friend, also named Jessica, felt compelled to inform Emily about the new hookup:

"She just thought that she figured that she was going to hear from someone else. And if Jessica wasn't the one who told her, she knew that she would just not be happy about that." ([05:18] Jessica)

This revelation led Emily to confront Brad, escalating tensions within their friend group. Jessica describes the situation:

"Brad ended up feeling the need to go and talk to Emily, his ex, about it in person for, like, hours. It turned into a whole ordeal." ([06:35] Jessica)

Nick's Advice

Nick empathizes with Jessica's predicament and offers strategic advice to regain control of the situation:

1. Establish Boundaries: Nick emphasizes the importance of setting clear boundaries to prevent the situation from worsening.

   "You need to very as soon as possible... tell him that you don't think he's ready, and then you don't say it if you can't back it up." ([16:25] Nick)

2. Maintain Independence: By creating distance and asserting independence, Jessica can reinforce her self-worth and make Brad more inclined to commit.

   "The more you show him that you don't need him, the more he will want you." ([17:46] Jessica)

3. Handle Shared Commitments: With plans to vacation together, Nick advises Jessica to suggest room changes to minimize intimacy and maintain boundaries.

   "Can you switch rooms?... You'll get what you want much faster." ([16:31] Nick)

4. Communicate Clearly: Instead of ultimatums, Jessica should express her feelings calmly and assertively, outlining her needs without pressuring Brad.

   "I'm just expressing how I feel. I do think we're moving a little fast... I think we should just stop doing what we're doing right now." ([12:03] Jessica)

Outcome and Next Steps

Jessica acknowledges the advice and plans to implement Nick's strategies during the upcoming vacation. She recognizes the need to prioritize her happiness and set firm boundaries to prevent further emotional entanglement.

"We have a game plan." ([22:57] Jessica)

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Dakota's Family Dynamics and Group Chat Exclusion

Timestamp: [26:01] - [49:44]

Dakota, a 30-year-old listener, shares her long-standing challenges with her father and stepmother regarding family inclusion. She feels excluded from the family group chat, exacerbating feelings of resentment and marginalization.

Family Struggles

Dakota recounts her turbulent relationship with her father following her parents' separation. Forced custody arrangements led to deep-seated resentment, further fueled by her stepmother's favoritism towards her adopted sister and brother.

"I've been so bad at speaking how I feel... I just kind of let it go." ([29:35] Dakota)

Seeking Inclusion

Dakota desires to be part of the family group chat to feel more connected but fears rejection and further exclusion. She highlights instances where her presence was overlooked, such as her brother's birthday not including her in shared memories.

"I just looked at him and my stepmom, and I was like, what? Group chat?" ([30:10] Dakota)

Nick's Guidance

Nick advises Dakota to shift her approach by focusing on her own happiness and reducing expectations that lead to disappointment:

1. Accepting Limitations: Understanding that her stepmother may never change can help Dakota manage her expectations and reduce resentment.

   "Stop expecting him to be this person that he's not." ([44:30] Nick)

2. Communicate Effectively: Dakota should express her desires without accusing or blaming, fostering a more receptive environment.

   "Tell your dad how he can help you feel more connected without complaining about the past." ([37:02] Nick)

3. Prioritize Personal Well-being: By redirecting her energy towards her own family and personal growth, Dakota can diminish the emotional toll of her strained relationship.

   "Stop wasting all this energy on that family. Focus on your family." ([49:12] Nick)

Implementing Change

Dakota acknowledges the need to communicate her feelings constructively and prioritize her family's well-being over past grievances.

"I think that's great advice... stop expecting your dad to be this person that he's not." ([45:26] Nick)

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Max's Breakup During a Family Crisis

Timestamp: [54:13] - [80:06]

Max, a 35-year-old listener, shares his painful experience of being abandoned by his girlfriend during his mother's critical illness and Christmas. The breakup not only left him emotionally devastated but also financially burdened due to joint investments in a dream home.

Heartbreaking Abandonment

Max describes how his girlfriend abruptly ended the relationship amidst his mother's passing, leaving him to handle both emotional and financial fallout.

"She basically packing her things and leaving me to fend for myself along with the financial cost of everything." ([54:30] Max)

Financial Consequences

Max had invested significantly in a barndominium and planned a grand proposal, both of which were jeopardized by the breakup. Now, he faces the challenge of managing the property alone.

"I bought land and I financed the building of the house." ([56:01] Max)

Nick's Strategy

Nick provides actionable advice to help Max navigate this turbulent period:

1. Detach Emotionally from Financial Investments: Viewing the property as a business decision rather than an emotional asset can help Max make pragmatic choices.

   "Talk to who you need to talk to and get the best sound advice about the best solution for this property." ([73:55] Nick)

2. Focus on Personal Growth: Continuing his efforts in therapy and self-improvement can aid Max in healing and moving forward.

   "Lean into that support group... Make a serious investment in making sure that you are able to get this out in a productive way." ([75:08] Nick)

3. Limit Ruminating Thoughts: Nick encourages Max to redirect his thoughts away from the past relationship to reduce emotional distress.

   "Catch yourself and be like, all right, I'm doing it. Just think of something else." ([68:57] Nick)

Moving Forward

Max agrees with Nick's advice, expressing his commitment to separating emotions from his financial obligations and focusing on rebuilding his life.

"I think that's what I'm going to end up doing... adding the objective sense." ([74:29] Max)

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Key Takeaways

1. Setting Boundaries is Crucial: Whether dealing with budding relationships or family dynamics, establishing clear boundaries protects emotional well-being.

2. Acceptance Reduces Resentment: Recognizing and accepting people for who they are, rather than who we wish them to be, mitigates feelings of disappointment and resentment.

3. Redirecting Focus to Self-Growth: Investing time and energy into personal development and immediate family can lead to greater happiness and fulfillment.

4. Effective Communication Matters: Expressing needs and feelings clearly and calmly fosters healthier relationships and reduces conflicts.

5. Managing Emotional Energy: Avoiding ruminative thoughts and seeking productive distractions accelerates emotional healing and personal growth.

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Viall Files, Nick Viall adeptly navigates through listener dilemmas, offering practical and empathetic advice. From Jessica's complicated Thanksgiving hookup to Dakota's familial struggles and Max's painful breakup, the episode underscores the importance of boundaries, acceptance, and self-focus in overcoming relationship challenges. Whether seeking relationship wisdom or coping strategies for personal crises, listeners gain valuable insights to enhance their love lives and personal well-being.

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Notable Quotes

• Jessica: “We have become this kind of situationship of sorts.” ([11:44] Jessica)

• Nick: “You need to very as soon as possible... tell him that you don't think he's ready.” ([16:25] Nick)

• Dakota: “I'm just scared to bring it up because anytime... it's like talking to a colleague.” ([37:53] Dakota)

• Max: “She said, I can't give advice because I'm not in that situation... it didn't help me.” ([55:57] Max)

• Nick: “Stop wasting all this energy on that family. Focus on your family.” ([49:12] Nick)

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and advice provided in Episode E885 of The Viall Files, offering listeners a clear and engaging overview of the episode's content.

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Nick]

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[Dakota]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

How'S it going?

[Jessica]

Good. My name is Dakota, I'm 27 years old, and I got more than just my turkey stuffed on Thanksgiving. Did I mess up the friend group?

[Nick]

It's a really good headline. So who did you hook up with?

[Jessica]

I hooked up with my roommate slash best friend's friend who just got out of an eight year relationship with her other friend.

[Nick]

Your roommates slash best friend's friend?

[Jessica]

Friend.

[Nick]

Okay. Okay. This person is. They're. They're not your friend.

[Jessica]

Maybe they're friends. They are now. We were kind of becoming a friend group.

[Nick]

Okay. All right.

[Jessica]

But not until he became single.

[Nick]

So before we get into it, like, what are. What are the potential problems that you're concerned about?

[Jessica]

One of the biggest potential problems already happened, actually. So my best friend, Jessica, she felt like she needed to tell his ex, Emily, just because they're friends, and I guess she's friends.

[Nick]

She's friends with the ex?

[Jessica]

She's good friends with the ex. Okay.

[Nick]

And. And they were broken up.

[Jessica]

Devastated. They were broken up for like, four months before we hooked up.

[Nick]

And so why did you. Why did your friend feel the need to tell her?

[Jessica]

Because she. I guess they had been talking about the breakup all the time. Emily had been calling her, like, almost daily just to talk about the breakup for, like, hours on end because she was spiraling over the whole thing.

[Nick]

But how is telling her that her ex boyfriend of four months had sex with another girl helping her unless she, like, asked.

[Jessica]

Right. She just thought that. She figured that she was going to hear from someone else. And if Jessica wasn't the one who told her, she knew that she would just not be happy about that.

[Nick]

And is your friend Jessica? These are fake names, everybody. Was she upset with you or was she just, you know, whatever. Whatever.

[Jessica]

Didn't care.

[Nick]

She didn't care. But she was just trying to be a good friend to the ex.

[Jessica]

To the ex. Correct?

[Nick]

Okay. All right. Yeah.

[Jessica]

So that happened. And then the guy, we can call him Brad, he ended up feeling the need to go and talk to Emily, his ex, about it in person for, like, hours.

[Nick]

Did this Emily person, I'm assuming she, like, lost her shit and.

[Jessica]

Lost her shit. Yeah. It turned into a whole ordeal.

[Nick]

How old are these people? How old are you again?

[Jessica]

I'm 27. They're 29.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Jessica]

But what I. What I didn't know at the time was happening was that, was that Brad was still telling Emily that there was a chance they were getting back together. I did not know that.

[Nick]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know how big of a deal that is, to be honest. I know people might disagree with me, but who did you hear that from?

[Jessica]

Everyone, including him. Now, I found that out, but at the time, that was not made clear to me.

[Nick]

I. I think there's just a lot of gray. There's a lot in that, in that conversation. You know, if he is reaching out to her on a regular basis and just letting her know that, like, hey, we might get back together, you know.

[Jessica]

He honestly hadn't been. They hadn't spoken in a couple months. I would say they were. They had both mutually agreed to block each other. So they hadn't talked in a while.

[Nick]

So when was the last time that he was like, I don't know, maybe. Sure. Like, maybe, I don't know, maybe we'll get back together.

[Jessica]

That doesn't also mean that he said that to her. It had been probably at least a couple of weeks, if not a month before we hooked up.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, this is a lifetime ago, but like, my last serious relationship before ever went on the Bachelor. Overall, it was a great relationship. We dated for two and a half years and we were just butting heads. And so we broke up. And at the time, it was the closest thing I ever had to a mutual breakup. We were living together, we were just butting heads. She moved out. But, you know, I was, you know, a couple years older than her. This was like her not her first serious relationship, but, like, I already had like a seven year relationship that, like, was a nightmare for me to get out of. I had a failed engagement already. So, like, I was at the point in my relationship life where I was like, I was done getting back together with exes. And when we broke up, she very much was like, let's just take a break. And I, I was very sad that we broke up. You know, I really was. I hated how much we, we fought. And I'm sure at some point I was like, yeah, I mean, like, yes, you know, maybe we'll see how things go. We'll see how this break goes. But like, just so saying that doesn't make it illegal for either of those two people to date or hook up or do whatever the fuck. So short of him, like again, proactively saying this to her as like a manipulation tactic to stop her from going out and living her life and seeing other people. I don't really think this is that big of a deal. I don't think he really. I don't think he's the bad guy that she is trying to paint him to be to everyone in this group of friends. Just because at some point he was telling her, like, there's a possibility things might work out.

[Jessica]

No, I can, I completely agree with you. And hence, you know, I hooked up with him on Thanksgiving and the next night.

[Nick]

Well, you didn't know. You didn't know that truth.

[Jessica]

But no, no, at the time I didn't know the whole ordeal and I also didn't anticipate all the drama that would follow. Since then, it's continued. I think my initial question for you was, should we continue doing this? And.

[Nick]

Well, what. I mean, forget about the ax. What is this with you two right now?

[Jessica]

So that's the current question. So it, it's one of those classic situationships, right? He's not, he just got of an eight year relationship.

[Nick]

He's not like, oh, they did it for eight years.

[Jessica]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've been single for about three years. So I am looking for, you know, something real.

[Nick]

And we have a really sorry for interrupting my, my first girlfriend. We dated off and on for seven years written about her. I finally ended the relationship and it took meeting someone to have the guts to even break up with her. But I quickly got into another relationship and when she found out about it, she showed up at her apartment where I was and waited in her lobby until I came down. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways. Yeah, it will tough those. Yeah, those eight year relationships will fudge you up. So I do have empathy for this, for this ex. It doesn't mean she's right, but I do have empathy for her. So anyways, he doesn't want to be in a relationship.

[Jessica]

He. Yeah, so he is, you know, we, we kind of started it out expecting it to be like a light, fun hookup after a night out type of situation. But it's turned into spending a lot of nights together, a lot of like full weekends together, going on dates, doing the whole like, I'm playing house essentially. And, and that wasn't really my doing. I didn't push for it. He was naturally the one to be like, come over, let's do this. Let's go out on this date. Let's, you know, spend another night together.

[Nick]

Yeah, listen, it takes two to tango. So you were.

[Jessica]

So I was not upset. I was not upset with his initiatives. But at this point it kind of feels, you know, more serious to me. He is a relationship guy, so he's not the type to just do like a hookup situation in his life. Like, so I've heard from my.

[Nick]

Yeah. Irrelevant. Yeah, irrelevant.

[Jessica]

Anyways, so we've turned into this kind of situationship of sorts. But the kicker is I actually just said to him, if you don't know by mid February if you want to put a label on this or not, then I'm, then we should just be. Go back to being friends. So I kind of gave not necessarily an ultimatum, but like, how'd you say it? I said it in this, in the sense of I, we don't even know what this is right now. You know, it was kind of when after all the drama went down, I was like, we don't know what this is. We don't really know each other that well. We'd been good friends for a couple months but hadn't explored a lot romantically. And I said, I know that you're still going through it still, you know, trying to get your footing as an independent person moving into a new apartment and you know, having a whole new life of sorts after an eight year relationship. So let's just take some time, get to know each other and by mid February, if we can't figure out what this is, then we should just go back to being friends. What he said he thought that was.

[Nick]

Great in your plan is to what, keep playing house? For now.

[Jessica]

The issue is obviously, like I said, this moved a lot faster than I anticipated when I set these ground rules of let's wait a few months and see. And since then he has brought it up like the whole label thing a couple of times because I was not, I was planning on dropping that, saying this is our plan and leaving it. But he has brought it up a couple times and saying things like, oh, like I, like I'm, you know, I'm still not ready yet, but we're heading in the right direction.

[Nick]

Okay, so like here's what you need, here's what you need to do. It's real simple. It sounds like things are going pretty good, but you are in dangerous territory right now.

[Jessica]

I am?

[Nick]

Yeah. And you are at a crossroads, but it's not too late. And I'm glad you called in at the right time because you're still in a slight position of power because it sounds like he really enjoys spending time with you. And I don't doubt that your friend said that, like he's known to be a rel. I mean, listen, he was an eight year relationship. Yeah, but I was in a seven year relationship. He will have fear of entering in a relationship. And just because he's a relationship guy doesn't mean he can't Also, give Fuck boy, you did a pretty good job trying to set some boundaries. You had the best intentions. The problem with your pitch is that it includes giving him the milk for free, so to speak. Right, right. And allowing him to have access to all the benefits of being your having you as a girlfriend without the commitment. And no one gives that up easily. You need to very as soon as possible. Next time you see him, say it like this. Like, listen, I also, by the way, I love hanging out with you. This is great. Really enjoy your time. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Empathize with them. At first. I know that obviously you got out of a very long relationship. That's, I don't even know what that's like. That must be crazy. I, I, I totally get it, but I've rethought about what I said. Don't ask him. Tell him how you feel. You're just expressing how you feel. You're like, I do think we're actually moving a little fast. You ought to admit we're playing a little house. I mean, listen, I love hanging out with you. So, like, it is hard for me to say no, but, like, and I hope you feel the same about me, but, like, you have some things to figure out because you got out of this relationship. And I'm not saying I don't want to see you anymore, but I think you need to figure this out, you know? And I think we should just stop doing what we're doing right now. And I don't think we should hook up anymore, and I don't want to spend the night or vice versa. Like, if you want to take me on a date, ask me out on a date. We can take things super slow. I really like you and I hope that we continue to hang out on a regular basis, but, like, I don't want to sleep with you anymore until we're something. And if, and if you don't want to be that, if you're not ready, that's also totally okay. But like, I, I don't want to play girlfriend if you're not going to be my boyfriend. And I don't want to put pressure on you, and I don't think you're ready.

[Dakota]

Right.

[Nick]

And you tell him you don't think he's ready, and then you don't say it if you can't back it up. No, if you're, if you're gonna, if you're gonna say, I'm not gonna sleep with you and then next week hook up with him late at night because you're feeling horny, don't you. Don't waste your time, because you will lose credibility.

[Jessica]

So here's the kicker on that one. We're going on vacation together in two weeks.

[Nick]

Where to?

[Jessica]

The Bahamas. With. With friends. It's not just us, but we're, you know, sharing a room the whole nine yards.

[Nick]

I don't think. I think you should not.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Can you switch rooms?

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You'll get what you want much faster.

[Jessica]

Yeah. I mean, that's fair.

[Nick]

And listen, you just be very chill about it and just, like, listen again. If he's like, well, this is crazy. It's just like, you're not ready for a relationship. And, like, people who take vacations together and share hotel rooms are like, that's. I do that with boyfriends. And you say, like, listen, this is my fault. I shouldn't have done this. I don't know your financial situation, but.

[Jessica]

And that's not an issue.

[Nick]

Yeah. So if it's not an issue, like, I don't think it should come to this. And hopefully people switch rooms. Be like, if it's a matter of money, like, I'll get my own room or whatever. I'll. I'll cover that because I don't want to inconvenience you. But, like, be the independent person. Like, that's attractive. The more you show him that you don't need him, the more he will want you. The more you pull away and that you do it calmly and you be the. Like, right now he's dealing with the crazy ex, and I'm not. I'm sure she's not crazy. She's just going through it, but you get what I'm saying.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And so the more calm and, like, just confident and independent and secure person that you can be, the more desirable you'll be towards him.

[Jessica]

Right.

[Nick]

But if you don't take my advice and you go on this trip and play house and you keep having sex with him and you let him call the shots about when to hang out and when he's ready, and you say yes when he asks you to, he'll never want to be your boyfriend.

[Jessica]

Valid point.

[Nick]

They're not even valid. These are facts. These are important.

[Jessica]

No, I know. And this is. This is helpful because this is what I was leaning towards. And the. The controversy among my friends was, should I move the goalpost because I set an initial date.

[Nick]

Yeah, stop. And that. Never do that anymore. Don't make up fake deadlines. All they really do is take away your credibility.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Because it's like, you know, what is mid February? I don't know. He might not be ready by mid February.

[Jessica]

Right.

[Nick]

It's. You have to show him that you can resist him and say no to him and that you can enforce your standards and boundaries and so that he has to meet your expectations when he's ready. Right now, this is all about him being ready. So as long as he's not ready, he feels justified to say, I can't be your boyfriend, but do you still want to have sex? And you're going to calmly be like, yeah, you're not ready, but when you are ready, here, I need you to do X, Y, and Z. If you want to be my boyfriend, I need you to do this. And you just be calm as about it.

[Jessica]

The key is just gonna be sticking to it.

[Nick]

Yeah. If you can't stick to it, then you lose.

[Jessica]

Right, Then I lose.

[Nick]

It's not that hard. Not that hard. It's not that hard.

[Jessica]

It's just sex.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I mean, again, you get off on. On being in a position of power here. Like, this is. This is, you know, kind of jet. You know, it's a little. It's right. A little manipulative. Fine. But whatever. Play the game, Play it well.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Otherwise he will be in the driver's seat, and this can go on forever. It will go on forever. Almost certainly go on forever. Especially. And you are at risk. You never know. Eight years, four months. He absolutely could get back together with her.

[Jessica]

Oh, yeah. I don't. Yeah. I mean, I don't.

[Nick]

Maybe not. Probably not.

[Jessica]

But it's. Listen, it's always a possibility.

[Nick]

Yeah. I'm just saying he's not out of the woods yet. He's not. Eight years. He's not out of the woods. That's why. I mean, that's why he spent two hours talking to her, because he feels an obligation to her. You got to do it right.

[Jessica]

Damn.

[Nick]

Okay, no more stuffing.

[Jessica]

No more stuffing. It was the best bangs giving ever.

[Nick]

There you go. Well, there you go. But. So you got laid a couple times, you've had some fun, and now you. You got what you wanted. Now if you really want, what you really want, you're gonna have to make. You're gonna have to change course. You're gonna have to mix it up. You have to stick to your guns.

[Jessica]

Yeah, that'll be fun.

[Nick]

I would literally reach out to him the next time you see him and just listen. I don't think we should stay in the same room. I like. I want to be clear. I'm not. I know you're gonna think this is a drastic. But like, I just don't. I don't want to play house. I really, I do. I really like you, but you're not ready. And I just don't think we should be sharing a hotel room when. When you're not ready.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And if he.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And even if he's like, no, I'm ready. Be like, no, like, listen, you're just reacting. We'll still go on this trip, but you cannot sleep with him on the trip. And that's going to be. I don't.

[Jessica]

That's going to be tough.

[Nick]

I mean, you're saving yourself. I can't tell you how many hours and years of potentially months of heartbreak and disappointment and frustration with this guy.

[Jessica]

Yeah, it'll be worth it.

[Nick]

Yeah. It shouldn't be that hard. I get it in the short run, but like, I'm 100% right here.

[Jessica]

You usually are.

[Nick]

This one I'm confident about.

[Jessica]

Okay.

[Nick]

So the choice is yours.

[Jessica]

Yeah. The ball is in my court for sure.

[Nick]

He really is not ready. I mean that I much.

[Jessica]

I. Oh, no shot. He's ready. No shot. I literally, Nick, I have taught him how to cook. He did not know how to do it.

[Nick]

Forgetting about that when I. When I. When I. Me and my girlfriend of seven years, off and on, broke up and again, I jumped into another relationship that moved very fast. So fast that like, we moved in together and got engaged in a year and a half, I didn't stop thinking about the other girlfriend until after me and the next girlfriend a year and a half later broke up.

[Jessica]

Wow.

[Nick]

So he's just. He's not ready.

[Jessica]

Yeah, no, no, he's ready.

[Nick]

But you creating distance and you showing him that you can say no to him and that you have your own standards and expectations he needs to meet, it will make him focus more on you and what he needs to do for you and less focus on her. When you make it easy for him to have access to you, he doesn't have to invest his emotionally energy in you. And then he will have time and space to invest his emotionally energy on feeling bad for his ex girlfriend. If he's feeling bad for her, he's investing his energy in her.

[Jessica]

Oh, yeah. And I mean, the whole reason that he like makes it says that he doesn't want to label is because of the optics. He's like, people are going to think I moved on too fast.

[Nick]

Yeah. So he's. He's still emotionally trying to take care of her, which is understandable. But you need him to start emotionally meeting your needs and expectations and giving him what he wants when he wants it won't get it done.

[Jessica]

Yeah, it's not gonna help.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Jessica]

Okay.

[Nick]

Let us know what you end up doing.

[Jessica]

I will. We have a game plan.

[Nick]

All right. I definitely want an update.

[Jessica]

Okay, we'll do. We'll do. Thank you for your time.

[Nick]

All right. Thank you. Take care.

[Jessica]

Yeah, you too. It was nice to meet you.

[Nick]

You. You as well. Bye. Bye. This episode is brought to you by Better Help. Listen, people, therapy is important. We talk about it all the time. It's something that helps me and Natalie as individuals and as a couple. And if you have ever thought about the but been putting it off or avoiding it, now is the time to check out BetterHelp. We get that therapy can be inconvenient, it can be expensive, it can be intimidating. We don't really know how to find a therapist because, you know, we don't really know to ask. Obviously, it can be pricey. With better help, they help with all of those obstacles. It's more affordable than in person therapy. They're working with thousands of therapists every day so that if you want to make sure you feel good with a therapist, that's really important. By the way, better help will let you switch out therapists until you land on someone that you really feel like you connect with. Plus, it's super convenient. All you need is a phone or a tablet or or computer. You can do it wherever you are, whenever you want to do it. From the comfort and safety of your home, your car. So if you again have just been just pondering, considering therapy, give better help a try. It doesn't matter what the problems are. General anxiety, just general stress. Work problems, relationship problems, family problems, doesn't matter. Discover your relationship green flags with better help. Visit betterhelp.com v I a l l today to get 10 off your first month. That's better help. H e-l p.com v I a l l nervous for a big meeting or a special night out? One thing you shouldn't have to worry about is your body odor. And that's where Lumi comes in. Lumi is changing the game when helping people who are on the go and struggle with some body odor problems created by an obgyn who saw firsthand how normal BO was being misdiagnosed and mistreated. All products are baking soda and paraben free pH balance for safe use below the waist. Choose from a variety of fresh bright scents like clean tangerine, lavender, sage or toasted coconut.

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[Dakota]

Hi, my name is Casey and I'm 30 years old and my family has a group chat without me.

[Nick]

Well, I consider you lucky. But why does that bother you? I'm assuming you wish you were in the group chat.

[Dakota]

Yes, it there's like a bunch of like backstory to this if it's okay if I dive into that a little bit. So basically from the time I was like 3 years old to now, me and my dad have like had an off and on again relationship. It's been very bumpy just because him and my mom separated when we were really little. Well, when I was really little. And so, you know, I had to go back and forth to his house from her house. There was a time where like when I think I was like 4 or 5 where I just didn't want to go over there and you know, I would go kicking and screaming, crying. But unfortunately, because I was like made to go, it made Me resent him a lot. And there were just. When I was over there, I couldn't be myself, and I couldn't do the things that I wanted to do or be the person I wanted to be. And so that was, like, another level of resentment there. And so it just continued to build years and years and years. And finally when I was like, I don't know, I had to be, like, 20, 21, I cut him off because I just had gotten fed up with his behavior of, like, just. Just continuously, like, making me feel left out. And what I did was I cut him off. I cut my stepmom off. I cut, you know, that side of the family off, like, all ties, without saying anything. And once I had my daughter in 2020, you know, I wanted him to be a part of her life. So I try to reconnect with him. And we, you know, I had to apologize for cutting him off. And I think that's another thing that gets me so upset, is that I always have to be the one to apologize, even though, like, his behavior is what, like, led us here. And now we're in a good place, me and him and the rest of the family. Like, I've made up for, you know, those years where I cut him off. And I was at my grandma's house the other day, and they were all talking about how they all have, like. He was basically, like, telling my stepmom, like, oh, like, did you put this in the group chat? Did you put that in the group chat so that Chaney could see it? And, like, I just looked at him and my stepmom, and I was like, what? Group chat? And he was. My stepmom was just, like, trying to play it off. It's like, oh, we just have this group chat, you know, that, you know, me, your dad, your sister, your brother are all a part of. You know, you're just. You're not in it, basically. And because I'm not one to really, like, speak up and feel on how I feel, I basically just didn't say anything. I just kind of let it go.

[Nick]

You didn't even joke being like, well, I'd love to be in it, you know, Add me.

[Dakota]

Yeah. No, I'm just. I am so bad at, like, speaking how I feel. Like, I've been. I'm just so. Just, like, passive. Like, I don't like conflict or confrontation, so I just won't say anything. But, like, when it gets behind closed doors, I, like, I'll get upset, I'll get mad and, like, talk to my mom. Or, like, my partner about it, and they're like, well, you have to say something. And I'm. I just. I've never. I'm not going to be honest. I've never had the balls to, like, speak up to him, because every time I do, it just turns into this huge confrontation between the two of us.

[Nick]

So do you think if you asked to be a part of this group text, they would say no?

[Dakota]

I don't know what they would say. I feel like my stepmom would have, like, just some kind of, like, excuse of why I can't be in it. Because, like, going back to just why we're in this bad situation that we're in, like, the reason I started hating going over to his house so much is when he married this woman. And they have. She has always made me feel like I am the redheaded stepchild of the family and that, like, you know, her kids come first. And, like, well, that's in that equation.

[Nick]

So then why do you want to be in the script?

[Dakota]

Because I feel like I still want that. I still want to be, like, accepted, like, into the family. Right. And I feel like I've worked so hard to get there, but, like. Like, they're just not. It's. It's like they don't want it. Like, she doesn't want to accept me at the end of the day.

[Nick]

Well, what if. Let's assume stepmom's not gonna change?

[Dakota]

Yeah, that's probably safe to assume.

[Nick]

And knowing that. Let's assume, given that she's not gonna change and that your stepmom's always gonna have a sense of, you know, her kids and their kids are really the first priority, and you're kind of, you know, the. The Cinderella of the group. Wouldn't it be safe to assume that being in this group chat would almost at times, make you feel a certain way or allow them to trigger you?

[Dakota]

Yeah, because I. I'm not gonna lie. What happened a couple days ago is my grandma passed away back in September, and that's the whole reason we were at their. At her house to begin with. And that's when they talked about the group chat. But I found out the other day through social media that my step and my sister went and got matching tattoos for. My grandma didn't ask me, like, if I wanted to go, if I wanted to do that.

[Nick]

And this sister, is she. Is she your stepsister, your half sister, full sister? Like, what's the relation?

[Dakota]

So actually, they adopted her when I was younger, so she's not even like, by blood related to me. But, like, they adopted her when I was, like, seven or eight.

[Nick]

Sure. But, yeah, well, that's all. Yeah. But, like, so that your stepmom decided to adopt her. So I'm obviously in her mind, you know, shoot, there's going to be a special connection there. And, like you've pointed out, stepmom has kind of gone out of her way to make you feel a little less important.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Like, do you. Do you want a matching tattoo with that woman?

[Dakota]

Not really, but, like, it was just. It's just the f. There's always the fact that, like, just. They just never, like, ask or even, like, check in to say, like, hey, do you. Are you okay with this?

[Nick]

I completely, completely hear you on why that bothers you. I really do. You know, however, we are talking about someone who. I mean, do you even like her?

[Dakota]

At times I do. At other times, I can't stand her.

[Nick]

Okay, well, that's normal. But, like, I. I just, like, this is like a Want what you can have, and I understand why you want it, and you have the right to want it, but it's like your desire to want to be in this group chat and your desire to have a matching tattoo with someone is mostly based off of you not being asked rather than the fact that you want to go. It's like. Right. You know, when I was single, there was just a lot of events I wanted to be asked to be a part of that I honestly didn't want to go to.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And I would care more if I wasn't asked. But to be honest, I was like, I don't really want to go. You know, it's the same mindset. So you have the right to be upset, but I think you would be happier if you could just accept the fact that, you know, as upsetting as it is, this woman operates this way. And, you know, I. I'm just a big believer. And it's a lot easier to be around people, whoever those people are, when you just accept who they are.

[Dakota]

Yeah. You know, and I guess it's just so hard to accept that because it's like, well, like, my dad's gonna be with this woman like, what seems like the rest of his life.

[Casey]

Yeah.

[Dakota]

And it's just like, how do I have a relationship with him? All relationships are different, always in the picture. And, like, sure. I feel like she's maliciously doing these things to me. Like, maybe I'm making this up in my mind.

[Nick]

No, I don't think you're making it up at All I just think you're an adult, you know, you have your own life. You know, you have a partner. Did you say, do you have kids?

[Dakota]

Yes, I have two little girls.

[Nick]

You have your, you have your own family. And yeah, you don't like how stepmom is handling herself. And yes, it's affecting your relationship with your dad, but your relationship with your dad's never been great. And on some level. Not on some level, on, on the most level, that's his responsibility. It's like, you know, she obviously is influencing him, but like, he's allowing himself to be influenced by her.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And I just think you're gonna have to decide how much energy you want to give these people who have demonstrated a lifetime of making you feel less than. And I don't think you should cut them off. I don't think it's like, has to be a black and white situation. I think there's just a big difference between cutting them off and just like, again, accepting their shortcomings and taking what you can get, so to speak. Tom Sandoval comes to mind. I'm not like, like close friends with the guy, but where other people, like, are like, I want nothing to do with him. I'm not offended by Tom Sandoval's presence. I'm fully aware of who Tom Sandoval is. I don't expect more of Tom Sandoval than I think I should. Tom Sandoval has never disappointed me. You know, I know, like, you know, this, I guess this is family. And so it's, you know, not the best comparison. But I really think in general why I often don't get disappointed by people is because I quickly am honest with myself about how I think they are. And if they continue to demonstrate to me an inability to meet my expectations, then I stop having those same expectations of them. And when you stop having expectations of people, they stop disappointing you.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And you can still have people who you have very little expectations of, still be a part of your life. You know, we've had this similar conversation for a different reason with the caller, but this was like a parent child relationship call. And I get it. It's heartbreaking not to have the relationship with your parent that you wish you had. And I say that as someone who's very lucky to have that relationship. So I'm saying that in a position of privilege. And so I understand that I don't know what it's like to be in your shoes. At the same time, I, you know, from peep for. For people, I do Know who are in your position, they've been able to be happier and have a better relationship with those people when they stopped expecting them to be something they've clearly proven they can't be, you know?

[Dakota]

Yeah, no, that makes sense.

[Nick]

So, you know, couple with the fact that, like, I get, you know, no one likes to be left out, but there's a good chance being in this group chat would make you feel not better, but worse.

[Dakota]

Yeah, no, and I never thought of it that way. I think it was just more of, like, wow, just another thing that, like, I wasn't included in. And again, it just makes you feel like, like you said, the Cinderella of, like, the evil stepmom and the evil stepsister storyline. Like.

[Nick]

Yeah. I don't think you have to be confrontational to. If you ever wanted this to your dad to say, I would really love it if you would include me more. If you were willing to do that with the stuff that you do with the family, and if you don't want to, that's fine, but it would mean a lot to me if you included me more.

[Dakota]

Yeah. And I. I think I'm just, like, scared to bring it up because anytime him and I like the conversations we have, it's like talking to, like, a colleague because you're so scared to say something that's like, why would you be scared?

[Nick]

Why would you be scared to say that to your dad? What I just said?

[Dakota]

Because he just, like, he doesn't ever. He's like. He's just a very strange guy who, like, just doesn't like to talk about, like, anything that's, like, under the surface. Like, he just likes to keep it strictly. Like, he doesn't like to talk about his feelings.

[Nick]

Well, you're not asking him about his feelings.

[Dakota]

Yeah, that's true.

[Nick]

Have you ever said that to your dad?

[Dakota]

Said, like, what I just said?

[Nick]

No, what I. What I suggested you say.

[Dakota]

Oh, no, I haven't.

[Nick]

So, I don't know. Give it a shot.

[Dakota]

Yeah, No, I. I get what you're saying.

[Nick]

There's a huge. But there's a huge difference between, you know, calling up your dad and saying, you never include me. I'm always Cinderella. You're the worst. Why can't you be different? You call someone. Whether you're right or wrong, you call someone up and say that, they're going to get defensive.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Nick]

If you call someone up and say, hey, if you ever wanted to include me, it would mean a lot if you guys included me more without complaint, don't complain. Just say what would tell them what would make you feel good. Everybody likes helping other people out because when you help someone out, it makes them feel good, too. So tell your dad how he can help you make you feel good. He may not take the bait, but. And I don't know, you know, maybe he'll lose his mind and argue with you and whatever. It's possible. I mean, who knows? But he's far less likely to do that because you're not accusing him of anything. You're not giving him a real reason to be defensive. You're just asking for a favor. You're not. Don't. You're not complaining about stepmom. You're not pointing out that you're never included in anything. Just tell him what he can do to make you feel better and see what happens.

[Dakota]

Yeah, no, I think that's great advice. I think when I've had conversations with him in the past about things that have bothered me, I've been very like, well, you did this and you did.

[Nick]

That, and you're much better at confrontation than you give yourself credit for. So don't be confrontational and just tell him ways that he can help you. Because people love to help people.

[Dakota]

Yeah, no, that's true.

[Nick]

Even if it's for selfish reasons, and.

[Dakota]

Hopefully he'll be receptive of that. But, like, I. You're right. I have to quit letting, like, the little things that they do bother me because it just. It does. Like, it kind of, like, digs at my soul a little bit every time I hear you.

[Nick]

And again, like, that's. It's a. It's a tough. I'm not. I'm not saying it doesn't suck and you have every right to bother you, but accepting who people are and being honest with yourself about who they are and what their limitations are is a great way to stop being disappointed and having you get hurt. You know, if I insisted that Tom Sandoval be my. My main confidant and the person I trusted all my deepest, darkest secrets with and, And, And. And needed Tom Sandoval to be my emotional support system, I. I might be very disappointed. Often.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

If I allowed how Tom treated me to impact how I feel about myself, you know? And again, I understand that a guy who's not even that much of a friend of mine is net different than your father. But the premise still applies, is that your God, your dad, has given you years and years and years of proof that he's just not that great of a dad to you, and he has a hard time being the empathetic, emotional, loving dad that you wish he was. So just accepting that he's not that person and stop hoping that he's going to be that person is going to set you up for success better with your dad. And then just communicating to him things that would make you feel more connected to him without complaining about things he has or hasn't done in the past is a much more effective way of getting what you want from him or anyone else.

[Dakota]

Yeah, no, I think that's great advice. Like I said, I've never thought about it that way of I'm making this version of my dad up in my head that I would like him to be. And every time he doesn't live up to that expectation, it makes me upset because I've created this false reality in my head of who he actually is.

[Nick]

It's not a false reality. It's just more hope. I'm sure you've seen other people in your life have parents who've done the things you wish your dad would do.

[Dakota]

I've seen him have that relationship with, like, my sister and my brother. And it's just like, what? It's always like, well, where did it go wrong? And I. I don't know. I've been in therapy for years for this and, like, it's just. It's just something I'm gonna have to live with. And I think your advice is, like, spot on and is like, stop expecting him to be this person that he's not.

[Nick]

And your brother, what's your relationship with your brother? Is he also adopted?

[Dakota]

No, they had him. Like, he is not adopted. They had him. So he's. He's half brother.

[Nick]

So again, it's. It's not meant to make you feel better, but instead of. I mean, go to therapy, but instead of talking about the same thing with your therapist over and over and have this thing be a constant thing that you. It sounds like up at this point, every time your dad and stepmom treat you a certain way, you ask yourself, well, what did I do wrong? Where did it all go wrong? The answer is obvious. You know, she is clearly a loud voice in that family, and she has decided that her adopted daughter and the son that she gave birth with is just more important than her stepdaughter who she doesn't feel is connected to. And she has decided to kind of be a dick about it. And that has nothing to do with you. She's just that kind of shitty stepmom. And honestly, it's. It's more common than you Think it really is it, you know?

[Dakota]

Yeah, that. That doesn't surprise me. Like, I. I just, like, I don't. I guess, like, with the way she's acted all these years, I just kind of say that that's how all step, step parents act, but kind of there is.

[Nick]

There is some. There is some truth to it. I. I think it is. It's very common, and I don't think. I don't even think sometimes the. The parents realize it. Natalie has seven siblings, right? They all have the same dad. Four of her siblings are full siblings. She's got three siblings that are half siblings. She's, you know, they're all family now, but her oldest sister, which is technically her half sister, you know, like, she's close with Natalie's mom, but, like, she has a version of when she was, like, a teenage girl and her dad married Natalie's mom. Like, she has a version of that story that I think is different than Natalie's mom's version. And it maybe not be quite as, like, you know, but I don't think she felt quite as loved by Natalie's mom as the love that Natalie's showed for her own kids.

[Dakota]

Right.

[Nick]

You know, and I would, you know, I don't think it was malicious or intentional. So, like, you know, and maybe this woman that your stepmom was a total nightmare. But what you need to focus on is that, like, it's not you. It's not your fault. There's nothing to figure out. And stop being like, oh, well, what did I do wrong? Like, you didn't. You didn't do nothing wrong. And stop expecting your dad to do things differently when he hasn't shown anything different over the years. And instead of saying things that are going to make him feel like he needs to defend himself, ask for his help and try to make it as simple as possible for him to help you.

[Dakota]

Yeah, no, I think. I mean, I think that's great. I think it'll be a new way for me to try to communicate with him on, like, what I'm feeling. And I'm just going to, like, just ask him for help. I'm not going to say anything about the chat or, like, anything like that.

[Nick]

Just, like, listen, it really makes me feel good when you guys include me. I'd love to be closer with you guys. You know, he might say, well, maybe you shouldn't have cut us off back then. It's just like, yeah, maybe I shouldn't have, but I guess I'm. And then you say, without being confrontational, and taking the bit you say, just say, yeah, I'm sorry, but I really just want to focus on a better relationship going forward with you and I, you know. You know, you might have to be the bigger person here, and it sucks. No one likes to be the bigger person when it comes to their parent. No one's the parent or child. But like, like, you know, as we get to be adults, sometimes we have to.

[Dakota]

Yeah. And every time I talk to my mom or my partner about it, they're like, very, like, they're more confrontational than I ever want to be. And like, my mom's like, I would just tell them how you feel. And I'm like, you know, I don't think that's gonna go over well. That's the thing.

[Nick]

It doesn't, you know, it's not gonna get you anywhere, you know?

[Dakota]

No.

[Nick]

Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

[Dakota]

Yeah. When I. When I scheduled this call, I kept thinking of, like, the things that you might say, and, like, I knew that, like, either the boundaries thing was gon come up as, like, setting the, like, certain boundaries or, like, the wanting to be right or wanting to be happy. And to be honest with you, my goal here is to be happy and to have a relationship with my dad. Maybe not to the full extent that I, like, hope it's gonna be, but, like, just enough to where I love him and he loves me.

[Nick]

Exactly.

[Dakota]

You know, he gets to spend time with my kids.

[Nick]

Yeah. And that's better than nothing. And that's better than constantly feeling less than. And fighting with your dad. You know, it's like just the way I see your energy.

[Dakota]

It is. It's. I'm. I'm wasting too much time on it. It's like, it's. It's taking up too much space in my brain, and I'm an overthinker. So once these incidents happen, I'm sitting there and I'm overthinking the whole thing, which is why I probably think she does things more maliciously than she intends to.

[Nick]

Maybe, but I. I don't. I wouldn't want to be in that group chat.

[Dakota]

Well, yesterday was my brother's birthday, actually. And, you know, she posted all the photos of him with my. With her, with my dad, with my sister, but none with me and him. So I was just like, you know what? That felt malicious. But I was like, okay, but you.

[Nick]

Again, that should stop surprising you.

[Dakota]

Yeah. I mean, it. It hurt. But at the same time, she doesn't see you.

[Nick]

She does not see you as a part of her family. It's that simple.

[Dakota]

I know.

[Nick]

And listen, you did.

[Dakota]

She's made it very obvious.

[Nick]

You did cut them off for a period of time.

[Dakota]

I did. I did, and I own that. And I said I was sorry, but I was like, I was young and I was like. I had gotten to the point where I was just like, okay, enough is enough. And it was actually, it was an event that happened with my stepmom that made me, like, finally cut them off, was that we were wedding dress shopping for my sister, and she turns around and looks at me and she goes, well, I guess I'm gonna have to buy your dress too. And I was like, at this point, I was making my own money. Like, I had a great job.

[Nick]

That's why you cut them off?

[Dakota]

Yeah. Yeah. Because the comments she made to me, it just. It had built for so many years. And then I, like, just kept ruminating on that comment that she made to me, and I was like, okay, like.

[Nick]

I've had enough on a one off. That does seem a little petty and a little bit overreactive. But, like, that's not really the point. And we're not here to litigate the past, but, like, I think the big takeaway from that is you not accepting people for who they are and continuing to have unrealistic expectations sets you up for disappointment after disappointment so that when they make some kind of remark that honestly, she probably thought nothing of it, you overreact and lose your shit.

[Dakota]

Yeah, 100. That's a hundred percent what I did. And I know it was petty, which is why, like, after a couple years of, like, ruminating in my pettiness, I did apologize.

[Nick]

You have your own family now.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Stop wasting all this energy on that family. Focus on your family.

[Dakota]

Yeah, no, I agree.

[Nick]

That's. That's a lot of energy. You're focusing on people who aren't appreciating your love, and that's energy you could be giving your kids and your partner.

[Dakota]

Yeah, no, I agree. And like I said, the reason I did make up with him after all those years is because I want him to have relationships with my children.

[Nick]

There you go.

[Dakota]

So.

[Nick]

All right. Was this helpful?

[Dakota]

It was very helpful.

[Nick]

All right, well, good luck. Keep us posted on how, you know, I'd love to hear if you're able to implement this and. And if that improves your wasted energy, because right now I think your problem is just how much energy you're wasting on this. And none of it is really the rest. You just have to accept for it for what it is. There's nothing else to change because they're not going to.

[Dakota]

Your podcast has like just helped so much because I've been listening to it for so long now. Like you're asking episodes I love and just the language that you've been like teaching like through there has helped me like in my relationships with my partner and how we communicate better. So I just want to say thank you.

[Nick]

Thank you for saying that.

[Dakota]

Helpful.

[Nick]

Well, I appreciate you saying that and thank you for listening and best of luck.

[Dakota]

Thank you so much.

[Nick]

All right, take care.

[Dakota]

Bye.

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[Nick]

How's it going?

[Max]

How are we doing sir?

[Nick]

I'm good. What's your name?

[Max]

My name's Max.

[Nick]

How old are you, max?

[Max]

I am 35.

[Nick]

How can I help, Max?

[Max]

My girlfriend abandoned me during my mom's passing and during Christmas time.

[Nick]

Okay. Is she still your girlfriend?

[Max]

No, we actually broke up in December.

[Nick]

Okay. Well, I'm very sorry to hear about your mom. What do you mean by abandoning you.

[Max]

Over Christmas during the Christmas time frame? You know. You know, her and I had lived together. You know, we moved locations due to some other circumstances, due to contracts and whatnot, we moved. I got, you know, kept in my same field of profession. So did she. And as time went on, she just kind of started to, I guess, give red flags, if that's the best way to describe it. And when Christmas came along, she started to, I guess, pull away even harder, you know, she decided to say that she wasn't ready for this. She didn't know what she wanted after we had spent over a year together and moved 2, 800 miles together, and she didn't know what she wanted. She didn't know herself and that she didn't know if she wanted to take a break or not. But she just felt like there wasn't any connection anymore, which didn't make sense, seeing as, you know, I had made significant plans in other places with her, and it just turned into, you know, her basically packing her things and leaving me to fend for myself along with the financial cost of everything. So just kind of up and left. Especially since she knew about what my mother was going through and was very sick and, you know, in a very critical state.

[Nick]

You're dating for, like, about a year.

[Max]

You said a little over a year and three months.

[Nick]

Okay, calling in. I'm curious, like, what. I mean, obviously you're hurting right now. Like, hearing you talk, it really reminds me of breakups I had in the past. And so I can hear you talk. It really brought me back to, you know, some difficult times I had in. In my life. What are you hoping to get out of this call and, like, what. What can I help you work through?

[Max]

I guess how to move forward on how to kind of recover from this. Because there was more financial decisions and plans that I had made with her that now I'm committed to, that I cannot get out of.

[Nick]

Okay, like what?

[Max]

Her and I. I was building a dream home near her hometown, and I had committed to that in November as a Christmas present. We were building a. I think it's called a barndominium. And I committed to that and bought land and things of that nature. It was. I paid. I paid a five figure down payment to get this started, and then we break up, and now I'm basically left with the tab. I, you know, it's in my name.

[Nick]

But at this point. You just bought land.

[Max]

I bought land and I financed the building of the house.

[Nick]

Well, that sucks. I mean, the financial part and the fact that, like, it sounds like the location was mostly based around her. Have you looked at just talking practical stuff? Are you able to sell this? Not ideal and not convenient. And maybe you might not get back what you put in. What can you get out of this? Assuming you don't want to move forward with this particular piece of property?

[Max]

I want to keep the property. We have discussed options with Airbnb and. All right, renting it and trying to turn it into a profit. That way, you know, I can still keep this and whatnot, because it'll be about two years before I can even come close to selling it due to terms.

[Nick]

Okay, so if I'm hearing you right, to me that sounds like right now fucking sucks, but in reality, it's just an extra, you know, fucking nice and thin.

[Dakota]

It.

[Nick]

Yeah, it feels like a real added you that you didn't need in an already difficult situation.

[Max]

Yes, sir. It. And it doesn't help that I paid to, you know, I was going to propose this coming up summer.

[Nick]

Sure.

[Max]

She's a very sentimental person, and she was very close to her father, and I had paid an event coordinator to actually basically furnish the whole altar and everything out on her dad's ancestral land to propose. And that. That cost me about five grand. And then, you know, the ring. And then all of a sudden, it's just like, well, I don't want this anymore. And I'm like, well, what am I supposed to do here? And there was other things attached to it also.

[Nick]

But, you know, so when you're talking, I said, you know, when I said, a lot of what you're saying reminds me. It really reminds me of the first time I got engaged. And that was. I was like, 20, man. I was 28. I was, I don't know, how many years ago, lifetime ago. You know, a lot of different situations. But when you're talking, so obviously a lot of what you're expressing is coming from your feelings. So even when you first said, you know, my girlfriend abandoned me when my mom passed, and over Christmas, what I'm hearing is I feel abandoned, you know, by my girlfriend because of how she handled the breakup around my mother's passing over Christmas. And Christmas is, you know, I get why you're saying that. Because that feels like a time where people have, you know, they usually connect. And when you don't have someone over those times, you feel abandoned. And I say feel because, well, I don't know your girlfriend and I don't know her story. If I'm just taking an objective approach at this. People have a right to leave relationships. And obviously you know that, right? And then I hear you talking and a lot of things that. A lot. A lot of what you're saying right now is you're relitigating promises you guys made as a couple to each other. You know, the expectation that you guys would get married or engaged. You know, like, clearly you weren't like someone who was just like, flying by the sea by their pants. Like, you made a financial investment in this property into this ring. And a lot of those investments were based off of conversations you two had and expectations that you guys set as a couple. And now you feel misled, you feel lied to, you feel probably manipulated and. And things like that. And when me and my fiance at the time broke up, I remember being at work and I was like, heartbroken as. And I remember I just one co worker and was, well, two co workers, Donna and Carmen. And man, I would spend all day be like, she said this to me and I don't know. And they would always like, yeah, that's fucked up. And like, you know, I was just like talking with the girls. I was just constantly talking about all the. The shit she said that she no longer backed up with her actions. And in my mind, I was just like, I just got angrier and angrier at her and mad and mad and like, you know, I was hurt. And I think right now, listen, it's still really raw. It's so raw. And like, obviously you're also dealing with the passing of your mom. So now you probably haven't even been able to fully deal with that loss because you've had to deal with this loss, which, you know, you were hoping that your girlfriend would be there for you to help you with the loss of your mother. And like, I can completely understand why you feel abandoned.

[Max]

Yeah, it was a very different time because she, she knew what was going on. I would always lean on her to have a conversation and I told her about it. And one of the iconic statements I remember her telling me is that she said, I can't give advice because I'm not in that situation. I just kind of looked at her and I was like, I'm not asking for advice. I was asking for some sort of you know, comfort. Some way to kind of, you know, reassurance, so to speak. And that statement right there kind of stuck with me. And then after the breakup, she kind of just like, shoved out all the issues on me and basically told me, you know, didn't even tell me anything, just said it, you know, basically left me to deal with all the consequences.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Max]

Which. Which I'm still dealing with. So.

[Nick]

So, yeah. So listen, I guess if you're hoping for advice on how to move on, the best advice I can give you is a lot of what you're ruminating over right now is something I'm very familiar with and something I was very good at doing when I was in your position when I was younger. And that is definitely gonna make you stuck as opposed to helping you move on. And for whatever reason, your girlfriend opted out of this relationship. I don't know her. Whatever she said to you, I'm not ready for this. I mean, when people break up with someone, all they're trying to do is just, like, get out of that conversation as fast as possible without feeling like the bad guy. You know what I'm saying? And, like, you know, and there's nothing she could have said to you that would have made you go, oh, okay, I see your point. Yeah, I'm good. We should break up. You know, like, you didn't want to break up. You cared about her. You felt differently than her. I don't know why she opted out. She did. It stings, you know, it happened at the worst possible time. A different. Not even comparing it to your loss, but my very first. I was, like, fucking 19. My very first girlfriend that we ended up getting back together off and on. But the. The first time she broke up with me, my mom was having very serious head surgery. And I just remember, like, wishing I had my girlfriend and feeling very abandoned, you know, and. And that really stuck with me and me up a little bit. It. But, you know, listen right now, again, like, give yourself some grace, because this is so raw and it just happened, and it's just going to take a little bit of time. But what will help you start moving on faster, what you really need to stop doing as much as you can is to re litigate things that she said to you in the past and trying to make sense of why she said what she said in the past and compare that to what she did in terms of ending the relationship and breaking your heart, because none of it will make sense. It will just piss you off and you'll feel more right. And, yeah, in your mind, she'll just be more of a monster. But that really won't make you hate her. It will just make you miss her. And it just doesn't help you move on.

[Max]

Yeah, I guess the weirdest part, like you said, was trying to turn her into this monster, I guess, this enemy. And what? You know, back then in Christmas, you know, I had paid for plane tickets for us to go, and then after she had canceled it, she just kind of took that piece of my financial status with her. Like, she canceled my plane ticket, didn't give me my money back. I didn't even know what was going on. I basically got blindsided, like you said. But it gave me this image of her that I didn't recognize. And I think that. I think you're right, that the best way is to kind of think of her about this monster and kind of distance myself away from the issue.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, which is easier said than done at first. It's. It's really the ruminating. You know, I'm a big believer now that you can control your thoughts. And I think there's a big difference in. Because, like, I used to not think that. I used to, like, argue with my dad. I'm like, I can't help how I feel. I'm sad. You know, there's nothing I can do about it. And, yeah, you can't do anything about your feelings. We can't help the thoughts that pop in our head. You're gonna wake up tomorrow morning and, I don't know, something she said is gonna pop in your head and it's gonna trigger you and piss you off. Nothing you can do about that that's going to happen. But what I used to do, and it sounds like you're doing a lot of as well, is this thought will pop in your head instead of just being like, yeah, I fucking sucked, and then try to, I don't know, think of something else. Work. I don't know, whatever your interests are, you know, a hobby. Calling your buddy up, asking you to get you out of your fucking mind, Go golfing, whatever the fuck it is, instead of doing that, you're having a conversation with her in your head by yourself. I couldn't tell you how many arguments I've had with ex girlfriends in my head by myself, in. When I. If someone, like, saw me, I'd probably look like a fucking crazy person. And you're probably doing a lot of that. Everyone in your shoes does that right now. And the trick to trying to move forward faster is to catch yourself and be like, all right, fuck. You know, I'm. I'm Max. You're doing it. Like, just. What? What? Just think of something else, you know? I don't know. Like, instead of doing. I used to obsess over the car my ex used to drive. And then all of a sudden, I was like, everywhere I go, I'm seeing a silver Ford Focus. I was like, no, I'm just looking for them. And you know what? They were at the time a very popular car are, you know? And so, like, you know, I was just, like, obsessing over things that, like, convincing myself of all this. And that was just me obsessing, ruminating, and I wasn't, like, stopping myself and, like, just checking myself, you know, because, again, you're like, this is raw. You're gonna hurt for a while. That's inevitable. There's nothing you can do about it. But the difference between hurting for a month or two versus, like, a year is your ability to get better at acknowledging these thoughts. And instead of ruminating over and over, work on getting out of that headspace, finding the distractions. I, I, I'm a big believer in kind of faking it to your making in this department. I used to, when I had my heart broken, when people would be like, how you doing? I'd be like, I'm fucking miserable, man. Like, I'm just like, I am fucking miserable. I would wear my pain on my sleeve, and I'd mope around. That didn't help. I went through another heartbreak later, and I was just like, I'm not going to do that anymore. And when people would ask, I'd be like, I'm good, man. And I didn't feel good inside. I did not feel. I did not feel good. But when I went out and I hung out with my friends, you know, Yeah. I found one or two friends to vent to and get it off my chest. But for everyone else, I wasn't gonna, like, burden my. Like, wear my pain on my sleeve and just, like, mope around every day that I started saying, you know what? I'm doing. All right, I'm doing. I. I believed it a little bit more and a little bit more, and I started just being all right. If you do one day, you'll wake up and be like, I'm actually, you know what? I haven't thought about it in a while. You know, you'll go from thinking about it every day to, like, thinking about it, you know, half the day, and then half the day will become a third of a day. But you, you have to challenge yourself to not do that. Because before I did that, for six months I wore this on my sleeve. My mom called me every morning and for an hour, I had an hour drive to work and for an hour every day I would ruminate about it. And you know, as much as it was talk to my mom, it just made a bad situation worse because I stayed in it and I hung on to that pain because quite honestly, that was the last thing I had of the relationship was the pain.

[Max]

Yeah, that, that, that's the key piece because it's, you know, when I think it's over, it's not really over because this situation has evolved into a bigger issue where, because I, you know, I, I was actually doing what you were stating. I was basically going to the gym all the time, hanging out my friends, becoming better, pursuing a higher education, doing these things that I needed to do to, and you know, securing my financial success, which I have to say was fantastic after I found out about it. And then, you know, she kind of keeps adding to the situation. Even though her and I haven't spoken, she continues to add more to the situation by pulling my family into it.

[Nick]

How so? How's she doing that?

[Max]

I work in the healthcare field. One member of my family, he got injured and then he got brought to the facility and then when he got brought in, she was in charge of him.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Max]

She walked in as a person taking care of him and she didn't know that me and him were related and she kind of blew the situation out of proportion and started to make these accusations and everything else and, and it started to make caring for him harder because, you know, I had to take him back and forth to appointments because he got severely hurt and she just kind of keeps adding on and involving other people and it just keeps stacking on in my life, if that makes sense.

[Nick]

Was she accusing you of being like a jerk or stealing? What is she.

[Max]

Well, she was, she was accusing me of being a stalker. She's saying that I was trying to harass her or whatever she was, she was trying to accuse me of that. And I haven't spoken to her for over a month, month. And she tried to basically say that I was there for her when I wasn't because I didn't even know she worked there. I didn't, I had no idea. I had absolutely no idea she worked there. So.

[Nick]

Well, listen, like, hopefully this is just a one off situation where, you know, tensions are high between the two of you. I mean, and quite honestly, the more you Describe about this person. I'm not trying to talk on her or anything like that, but like, you only have known this person for a little over a year. She maybe just is not the person you thought she was. Like the person I got engaged to first, like, you know, great person, not my person, but I definitely didn't see that at the time. And she really me up when we broke up. And it took a. It took a long time to be like, you know what I mean? I thank God that relationship ended. You know, and the more you talk, it's just like, you know, maybe she's just not your person and. But I think what's really important now is. And I would, you know, listen when we break up unexpectedly and it feels blindsided and they'll. And that person doesn't give us the quote, unquote closure that we think we need, even though it's not really her job to give you closure. But it certainly doesn't feel that way. We hang on to hope. And I think whatever hope that you may have had about this relationship and getting back together, my hope for you is that mentally you have said goodbye to this relationship and you have let go of the possibilities of getting back together. Where do you land on that?

[Max]

Truth be told, I've kind of fully checked out, like after certain things that occurred.

[Nick]

Great.

[Max]

And I love that, you know, I, you know, I had found out certain things and I just kind of checked out because I was like, I.

[Nick]

That's great. That's awesome.

[Max]

Yeah, I don't want to do it anymore.

[Nick]

That's a.

[Max]

It's not.

[Nick]

That's amazing news. That's amazing news. So if she's gonna pop in your head, I want the things that, that have been revealed to you since you've broken up that have made you. That have kind of soured her in your mind. If you're going to focus on anything, focus on that. And that's not to disparage her or whatever. Like, eventually you'll just. Eventually she simply just won't be a thought in your mind. But for now, your, Your heart is going to want to romanticize about the relationship and the promises that were made and things like that. It's time to just say, this relationship is over. It's about moving forward, about moving on. Get back to reinvesting into yourself in the gym and hanging out with your guys and higher education and things like that. And when it comes to this property, listen, you just got to take the l. You know, I had to sell my engagement ring for a Loss, you know, it sucked, but you just, you take the L. You've been through some difficult times with your background, you know, clearly you must have some resiliency in you. You know, it's like to get knocked down. This is about not getting yourself knocked down and getting. Getting back up. And so instead of feeling bad for yourself and, oh, that was stupid, and I shouldn't have done that or whatever, whatever negative thoughts that you, you know, whatever. You took the fucking L. And now this is about figuring out how to make the most of that situation. Figure out, what do you need to do this property? I don't know. You got to be pragmatic about it. You got to take the emotion out of it. You got the sentimental. What it was meant to be. Fuck that shit. Now, this is a piece of investment property that, like, you know, wasn't your plan. But talk to who you need to talk to and get the best sound advice about the best solution for this property. Whether it's. It ends up being a bit of investment property that you hang on to, or you hang onto it for a period of time before you're able to sell it, you know, and even if it's at a loss, just make the best business decision for yourself and take the feelings and the romance out of it and don't allow yourself to ruminate and have any sentimental value for this property. It's just a piece of land.

[Max]

I think that's what I'm going to end up doing. Just doing whatever I can to take the emotional side of it away and then adding the. Adding the objective sense.

[Nick]

Yeah, you're going to be sad. It's still really raw. Like, that's normal. She's going to pop in your head. You're going to want to ruminate. You're just going to have to, like, get better and better at checking yourself and not doing it. Are you in any type of therapy?

[Max]

I want. I. I go to two types of therapy. I go to. I do iron therapy, which is the gym, and then I, you know, I have. I go to a counseling session probably about once a month. You know, I just talk about everything, check in and stuff like that. Because we. We do that group because we have a, you know, we have a support group, and we all are there for each other, and we talk about things and we try to do things that are positive for us.

[Nick]

Lean into that man. Especially with the loss of your mom. Because right now you have to be mindful of the fact that, like, this breakup has not allowed you to process the Loss of your mom. So, like, be mindful of that, you know, whether it's the support group or, you know, jumping into therapy, I would make a serious investment in making sure that you are able to get this shit out in a productive way. Not just like ruminating it with your friends or whatever, but like just making sure that you are dealing with this loss of your mom and properly moving on from your girlfriend. Because, like, this is emotional energy. And that emotional energy could be put to a lot of other things that are far more productive. But until you deal with it, it's going to cost. So, you know, a lot of people say, I don't want to spend money on therapy or whatever. Like, if you want to think about it pragmatically, it's just, you know, figuring it out now because, like, that ain't going to go anywhere until you deal with it.

[Max]

Yeah, it makes sense because it's, it's a very traumatic time and everything because it was, it was pretty big on my mind. I've been, that's the reason I've been going to therapy. Trying to deal with that kind of. Again, guess, per se, confront the demon. Try to get that, get that out of the way, you know?

[Nick]

Yeah. And let's listen. There's a world in when, you know, if you were to try to learn anything from your relationship, you know, again, if you're going to think about your relationship, think about what you can learn from it. Don't relitigate the past. This is not about figuring out how you were a victim in that relationship or why she's a total monster. If you're going to think about it, what could you learn? And I don't know, you were only dating this person for a year. Takes a long time to get to know someone, even if it feels like you've known them for a long time.

[Dakota]

Time.

[Nick]

You know, listen, people move fast. Sometimes people get it right. But like, I don't know, you know, maybe she did feel like things were moving too fast. You know what I'm saying? So, like, next time it can get really exciting when you're in love and you make big plans together. But don't be afraid to check in with your partner and just say, hey, listen, like, we can always slow down and let's just make sure we're ready. Because sometimes people can move too fast and sometimes that can freak people out. And sometimes, you know, people don't know how to express their emotions and few things feel intense and then they don't do it and it bottles up and Then they just kind of leave because they know how to handle it. And it sounds a lot like what your girlfriend did.

[Max]

Yeah. Because, I mean, she. When she did it, when she decided to do it that night, she was, you know, kind of implicating things about moving too fast, stating you want to, you know, you want to get married next year, you want to have kids. After that, I did expressly tell her. I was like, I want to slow it down. I don't want to go that fast. For us to have the freedom to do have fun with each other and then move on to that piece whenever we're ready. But she.

[Nick]

Who knows?

[Max]

You know, from my understanding, it looked like she was just ready to leave.

[Nick]

Yeah, maybe. And maybe she was. How old was she?

[Max]

She was 22.

[Nick]

Okay. How old are you?

[Max]

I'm 35.

[Nick]

Okay. So listen, obviously, you know, I mean, my wife is a lot younger than me. We met when she was 21. That's a risk, man. When me and my now wife got together, you know, you're going to date someone a lot younger than you, you had to prepare yourself for the fact that, like, you know, when you were 22, you were pretty sure about what you wanted, only to realize that maybe you didn't want the things that you thought you wanted. And there was a lot of. At least when I was 22, this is all this that should help you make you feel again with the ruminating, you know, and instead of trying to figure things out, you could just chalk it up to the fact that, like, you know, maybe she just thought she wanted this, she didn't want it. And that is a risk of dating someone a bit younger than you.

[Max]

So that's something that I realized that maybe. Maybe that. That played a part into all of it. And as you said, just chalk it up to a loss and lean forward, so to speak.

[Nick]

Yeah. All right, well, hopefully this was helpful, man.

[Max]

Oh, it was. It was very helpful.

[Nick]

All right, well, you know, it sounds like you're doing a lot of the right things. Really, just keep doing it. Allow yourself to feel. Cause it's still really raw. But just check yourself when you're ruminating. Keep leaning into that support group. I would look into therapy and just keep investing yourself. And I. I think this will get better over time. You know, just. Just be willing to learn from the things that didn't work out.

[Max]

Well, I appreciate your time and thank you for having me.

[Nick]

I appreciate your call. It's always, always great. I mean, not. Not great that you're going through this, but really love hearing from the men out there who who are also go through some of the relationship problems. It's nice to hear. So I appreciate your vulnerability.

[Max]

Yes, sir. Well, thank you again.

[Nick]

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