E890 - Southern Charm w/ Venita, Bachelor w/ Alexe, Love Is Blind, Martin Kove, Traitors, and Summer House

Summary

The Viall Files – Episode E890 Summary

Host: Nick Viall
Guests: Venita (Southern Charm), Alexe (The Bachelor), Martin Kove
Release Date: February 25, 2025
Episode Topics: Southern Charm, The Bachelor, Love Is Blind, Martin Kove, Traitors, Summer House

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1. Southern Charm Recap with Venita

Discussion Highlights: The episode kicks off with a lively discussion about the latest happenings in Southern Charm. Venita shares her recent experiences on the show, particularly focusing on her interactions with Justin, a fellow cast member.

Key Points:

• Relationship Dynamics: Venita discusses tensions between herself, Justin, and Nick. She expresses frustration over Nick's handling of travel logistics and his "Do Not Disturb" phone settings, which hinder communication.

  Notable Quote:

  Venita: "Why aren't you pushing the limits of science and powering the nuclear engines of the world's most powerful Navy?" [00:01]

• Wedding Anecdote: Venita recounts attending her wedding in New York alone, representing the family's interests, while Nick indulges in premium travel perks.

  Notable Quote:

  Venita: "I went to New York for our friend Emma's wedding and her husband Adam... You know, sometimes when you're a married couple, you have a kid, you have to divide and conquer." [02:44]

• Communication Issues: Natalie highlights the struggles of reaching Nick due to his phone being on "Do Not Disturb," leading to heightened tensions during Justin's trip.

  Notable Quote:

  Natalie: "I text him I was getting our daughter. Nick, no. Sorry, Hubby heart has his notifications silenced." [06:26]

2. Justin from Southern Charm – Unveiling Hidden Tensions

Discussion Highlights: Justin shares his personal experiences and frustrations from filming Southern Charm, shedding light on behind-the-scenes conflicts and his strained relationship with Nick.

Key Points:

• Dating Drama: Justin reveals that he was dating someone outside the show during filming, leading to his abrupt exit and causing friction with other cast members.

  Notable Quote:

  Justin: "We were dating for, I guess, like, two months. And then the super teaser Drops... he was like, I can't do anything about it." [44:17]

• Producer Influence: The conversation delves into the producers' role in shaping cast dynamics, with Justin feeling that decisions were made to favor certain individuals, leaving him feeling isolated.

  Notable Quote:

  Justin: "He was trying to get ahead of being fired... I've been angry and nervous for his well-being." [46:34]

• Reunion Tensions: Justin anticipates confronting Nick at the reunion, discussing the lack of support and transparency from the show's leadership.

  Notable Quote:

  Venita: "Imagine being in her shoes... he's choosing to not talk to me because he's dating someone else." [52:20]

3. Reality TV Authenticity and Production Insights

Discussion Highlights: The hosts analyze the authenticity of reality TV shows, particularly Southern Charm, comparing them to other franchises like The Bachelor and Love Is Blind.

Key Points:

• Scripted vs. Authentic Moments: Vanita raises concerns about the scripted nature of Southern Charm, questioning the genuineness of cast members' interactions.

  Notable Quote:

  Vanita: "A lot of times it's just scripted and not authentic, leaving very little room for genuine reactions." [24:00]

• Comparative Analysis: The hosts compare the production styles of different reality shows, noting that some prioritize drama over authentic storytelling.

  Notable Quote:

  Natalie: "The Bachelor has lost its authenticity. It doesn't seem as genuine." [34:05]

4. Special Segment: Martin Cove from Cobra Kai

Discussion Highlights: Martin Cove joins the conversation to discuss his role in Cobra Kai, his upcoming projects, and his experiences in the entertainment industry.

Key Points:

• Character Development: Martin talks about his character's evolution in Cobra Kai, emphasizing the depth and vulnerability added to what was once a one-dimensional role.

  Notable Quote:

  Martin Cove: "When we did the series, I did not want him to be anything really but vulnerable and have an arc." [132:29]

• Upcoming Projects: He introduces his new graphic novel, The Prodigal Son, detailing its storyline about a gunfighter and a young boy learning moral lessons.

  Notable Quote:

  Martin Cove: "It's about a gunfighter that I'll play who's killed everything and is bonded with a 12-year-old kid... they're each learning how to be human." [126:21]

• Industry Insights: Martin shares anecdotes from his career, including interactions with legendary actors like Sean Connery and the impact of Cobra Kai on his professional trajectory.

  Notable Quote:

  Martin Cove: "The greatest thing that I learned from Sean Connery was how to listen in a scene." [130:34]

5. Commentary on Other Reality Shows

Discussion Highlights: The hosts provide updates and opinions on various reality TV series, including The Bachelor, Love Is Blind, Traitors, and Summer House.

Key Points:

• The Bachelor: Discussions revolve around recent eliminations, contestant strategies, and the evolving dynamics within the show.

  Notable Quote:

  Nick: "I really thought Juliana or Carolina was going to be the top three or four now. I didn't think so." [15:09]

• Love Is Blind: The hosts critique the show's handling of contestant relationships, emphasizing inconsistencies and perceived manipulations.

  Notable Quote:

  Vanita: "She's accusing him of being a catfish... it's how the show manipulates relationships for drama." [28:02]

• Summer House: Venita shares insights into the cast's latest drama in the Bahamas, particularly focusing on Shaq's controversial actions.

  Notable Quote:

  Vanita: "That was the brutal episode for Shaq. Do you think he's just taking one for the team?" [15:38]

• Traitors: Brief mentions highlight the ongoing storylines and cast performances, though detailed discussions are limited.

  Notable Quote:

  Mary: "Traitor's influence knows no bounds." [61:58]

6. Interactive Game Segment

Discussion Highlights: To add a fun twist, the hosts engage in a game called "80s Movie vs. Reality TV Villain," where they guess the origin of iconic quotes.

Key Points:

• Game Mechanics: Guests and hosts determine whether a quote is from an iconic 80s movie villain or a modern reality TV antagonist.

  Examples:

  • Quote: "You can only get hurt so much before you get numb."

    • Correct Answer: Teresa Giudice, Real Housewives of New Jersey [152:37]

  • Quote: "Stop acting like you're the number one fucking guy in this group."

    • Correct Answer: Jax Taylor, The Bachelor [157:06]

  Notable Interaction:

  Martin Cove: "These are tricky ones. 'I am the devil, and don't you forget it.' Sounds like an 80s movie." [153:31]

7. Sponsorship and Advertisements

Notable Mentions: Throughout the episode, brief advertisements are interspersed, promoting services like Thrive Market, Apostrophe Dermatology, and Branch Basics cleaning products. These segments include specific discount codes and promotional offers tailored for podcast listeners.

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Conclusion: Episode E890 of The Viall Files offers an in-depth exploration of the latest developments in prominent reality TV shows, enriched by candid conversations with cast members from Southern Charm and industry veteran Martin Cove. The hosts provide insightful commentary on the authenticity of reality TV, the intricacies of cast relationships, and the evolving nature of popular franchises. The interactive game segment adds a playful element, engaging both guests and listeners in recognizing iconic quotes from beloved media.

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Notable Quotes:

1. Nick Viall: "You're pretty smart when people talk about you. Too smart comes up a lot. So why are you trying to prove them wrong?" [00:01]
2. Natalie Joy: "Can't tell you how many times I go to the grocery store and I am like, oh look, it's organic, it's healthy, it's good." [00:52]
3. Venita: "We sit down with celebrities for candid conversations, asking the tough questions you won’t find anywhere else." [15:09]
4. Justin (Southern Charm): "He was walking in and he was like, 'River dogs. Nice to see you.'" [02:16]
5. Martin Cove: "The greatest thing that I learned from Sean Connery was how to listen in a scene." [130:34]

(Note: The timestamps correspond to the transcript provided and indicate the moment each quote was uttered.)

Transcript

[Nick]

You're pretty smart when people talk about you. Too smart comes up a lot. So why are you trying to prove them wrong? Why aren't you pushing the limits of science and powering the nuclear engines of the world's most powerful Navy?

[Natalie]

If you were born for it, isn't.

[Nick]

It time to make a smart choice? You can be smart or you can be nuke smart. Become a nuclear [e-mail] nukesmart America's Navy.

[Vanita]

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[Natalie]

Can't tell you how many times I go to the grocery store and I am like, oh look, it's organic, it's healthy, it's good. And then I read the ingredients and there's a long list of chemicals in it. So at Thrive Market, I really trust them to show me options that are good for my family. Thrive Market makes it simple to find trusted, family friendly brands without spending hours in the grocery store. From snacks and school lunches to pantry staples, everything they offer is a hundred percent non gmo. The convenience of not having to go to the grocery store with the peace of mind that what I'm ordering is low sugar, gluten free, organic and high protein options is actually unbeatable. The Healthy Swap scanner and the Thrive Market app is one feature we can't live without. Simply scan a product you're used to buying and it instantly recommends cleaner, healthier alternatives. This has been a game changer for our family. Instead of bags of chips, we've opted out for snacks that Thrive Market organic veggie sticks and will never go back.

[Vanita]

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[Justin]

You'Re crazy.

[Vanita]

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap Edition. I am your host, Nick and it's nice. It is nice to see you.

[Natalie]

That's how he greeted me when he came home from his three day trip in New York.

[Vanita]

That's not true.

[Natalie]

He walked in and he was like, river dogs. Nice to see you. I'm the fourth in line. Isn't that crazy?

[Vanita]

That is crazy. Absolutely not true. No. She's ahead of state, Steve. After Jeff and. No. I went to New York for our wedding.

[Natalie]

Our wedding.

[Alex]

Oh, my God.

[Mary]

Congratulations.

[Vanita]

I went to. I went to New York. Let's try one more time. I went to New York for our friend Emma's wedding and her husband Adam. Good friends. You. You guys may know Emma. Emma Gray. She was a writer for HuffPost. Well, I. I went by myself. So, you know, sometimes when you're a married couple, you have a kid, you have to divide and conquer. I went as a representative of the family.

[Natalie]

I love Emma. I wish I would have been at the wedding. It's the flight to New York that I just. And not do. And you know what's fucked up about it is that when I'm with Nick, he puts us in row 50. When he's by himself, he's like, oh, let me upgrade to premium select plus, Comfort plus. But when I. When. When he's with me, he's like, we'll sit by the bathroom.

[Vanita]

I got an up. I got an upgrade option.

[Natalie]

He sent me a selfie on the plane, and I'm like, I notice that there's an emblem on that seat right there. And that's not on row 50. I would know.

[Dylan]

So is the math. Mathing, though, is two coach seats the price of like.

[Vanita]

Thank you, Justin.

[Dylan]

First class.

[Natalie]

I don't give a fuck.

[Vanita]

I didn't fly first class. I didn't FL. First class.

[Natalie]

I burst his child. I carried his child and then I burst her. You think that, like, I just.

[Dylan]

Like you could check yourself in, Nick, and then have her in the first class when.

[Vanita]

Now he's done complaining.

[Natalie]

Sorry, go ahead. You know, it's a good complaint, but go ahead.

[Vanita]

Well, I'm just saying, like, Natalie didn't get her. Well, this is another. This is a did not to pivot, but, like, question for the points people out there. I'm not like a bunch of a points person. Like, fine, like, credit card points, airline points. I got them. I started using them. I'm a delta points person. Natalie has an account but hasn't been accumulating them. So when we travel together, she doesn't get the perks of an upgrade.

[Dylan]

Yeah, because you're stealing her points.

[Vanita]

Oh, she's booking her ticket.

[Natalie]

He's never used my sky miles number to book our ticket, so I don't Get.

[Vanita]

Anyways, I am curious. It's just like, from an airline standpoint, what is the point of having points? Like, I'm a. I'm a. I'm a platinum diamond something. Bullshit. What does that even mean? What it means, what I think it means is that instead of being like, not even on the upgrade list, I'm like 15. So, like, what's the fucking point?

[Nick]

Because you can use your points to.

[Vanita]

Upgrade, like, every two years. Yeah, I can buy myself a free plane ride. Yeah. And that's after a lot of money spent.

[Nick]

True. Sometimes gives you like, access to lounges.

[Vanita]

I don't need your lounges.

[Natalie]

He won't let me go in the lounge either because they charge him $50 to let me go in, so he doesn't.

[Nick]

If you got her sky points up.

[Mary]

It'S kind of like the McDonald's priority too.

[Vanita]

I. I just like. I don't know the point of, like, community food, even though it's private. Community food.

[Nick]

Oh, my God. This is why I love going to the airport. This is why problem being there two hours early. I get to see heat.

[Vanita]

Buffet. Buffet food.

[Nick]

Oh, my God. Just to, like, relax, I can, like, plug in my phone.

[Vanita]

Their lounge is nice.

[Nick]

The lounges are nice. You can have a private area to yourself if you want. You can sit amongst people. You grab a drink at the bar. You could sit outside.

[Vanita]

The food's garbage.

[Nick]

Some of it, but some of it's decent. You got a nice coffee machine.

[Vanita]

Sure, some. You have a coffee machine?

[Dylan]

Would you rather have a $20 muffin from Earth Cafe?

[Natalie]

No, no. He made me get a turkey sub from Jersey Mike's at 7am yeah, like.

[Mary]

In the line of Panda Express.

[Natalie]

No, I fought for my life in the bathroom later on that day.

[Mary]

Exactly.

[Vanita]

So be grateful there are private bathrooms.

[Nick]

In the lounge that go from the ceiling to the floor.

[Mary]

Some of us have only ever heard of the Delta.

[Natalie]

Okay, I've only ever seen the sign on the outside.

[Vanita]

Married's nothing special.

[Mary]

I don't believe that until I see it with my own jaws.

[Vanita]

I'll take you.

[Nick]

Oh, it's something special and I would love to show you that experience.

[Vanita]

What else do you think?

[Mary]

I think I would love it. I love free things.

[Vanita]

I thought you were going to complain about my phone being. I knew not to say.

[Natalie]

Oh, my God. Yes. That's another thing. So he's gone. He's gone. In New York, I'm home alone with our one year old who is in all that toddler stage. She is mischievous and she is naughty. And she is very fun, but she's a lot.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And Nick's just dilly dallying in New York City. Like, getting coffee here, getting lunch here, shopping here. And, like, I'm home fighting for my life. And I text him I was getting our daughter. Nick, no. Sorry, Hubby heart has his notifications silenced. I'm like, the fuck? Notify anyway. Notify. Then I go to call him immediately to voicemail. I'm like, the fact I have to call you twice and notify my text messages when I'm home alone with your baby is crazy.

[Vanita]

I didn't know. I didn't know. My phone.

[Natalie]

If I were getting murdered, I'd be like, hold on one second. I have to call him one more time because it's on do not disturb, and that's bizarre. Nick, your phone has been on do not disturb for months.

[Vanita]

I never put it on.

[Nick]

Not a year.

[Natalie]

You just did.

[Vanita]

Well, I just turned it off. Fine.

[Dylan]

It's a laptop. His laptop's on do not deserve. And it's broken. But, like, this is. My laptop's fixed now, so you can turn it off.

[Nick]

I guess turn it off.

[Mary]

So, yeah, this is just your choice.

[Vanita]

What do you mean?

[Nick]

Do you add contacts to your favorites.

[Natalie]

And ask who's on it? Not his wife.

[Nick]

Well, because I was gonna say that typically my favorite.

[Vanita]

Yes, I have a favorites list. It hasn't been updated since 2012.

[Natalie]

It's like, his parents and all of his buddies. Nowhere is his wife.

[Nick]

Red plug.

[Vanita]

Literally, people from, like, 12 years old. Is that what happened? If you're on a favorites list, you're not. You. You get. You get bumped.

[Nick]

I'm pretty sure that, like, you get, like, almost like. Like, get to skip the do not disturb. Or, like, if you call them, their calls will go through. On your favorites list, you can also.

[Dylan]

Call twice and it goes through the do not disturb, right?

[Mary]

Yes.

[Natalie]

I had to call twice every time I wanted to reach them, which felt insane, since I was.

[Vanita]

I got a scolding.

[Natalie]

And then he texted me. Then. Then he felt the need to be like, can you have lunch ready by time I get home from the airport?

[Nick]

I'm like, oh, no.

[Natalie]

I mean, then I'm like, well, we have, like, the mobile dog groomers coming to, like, groom the dogs out front. I'm like, I can't leave the house.

[Vanita]

I always.

[Natalie]

And then I'm like, can you pick up? And then he goes, oh, so now I have errands. Like, I asked for lunch to be ready, but I have errands instead. And I said, don't you dare. I'm not the one insane for you to complain. And he said, on my way.

[Mary]

That's kind of like this wife.

[Nick]

I love it.

[Vanita]

This.

[Mary]

Did you hear about the wife that returned home from surgery to a complaint from her husband?

[Natalie]

Me coded. It is so me.

[Mary]

Would you guys like to hear about it?

[Natalie]

Go ahead.

[Mary]

Okay. So basically, this woman comes home from gallbladder surgery very excited to rest and relax in her own home with her family. Very soon after laying down on the couch, her husband brought up a frustration he had with her once again, right after she got home from surgery.

[Vanita]

What was the frustration?

[Mary]

Basically, he expressed that he wants her to stop putting his athletic shirts in the dryer, something he had asked her to do before.

[Vanita]

How many times did he ask her?

[Natalie]

It doesn't matter. She just got home from surgery.

[Mary]

She was frustrated that this was the time he decided to bring it up to her. Instead of checking in and asking if she. She needed anything after the surgery, she told him to do his own laundry from now on if he doesn't like the way she does it.

[Natalie]

Yep. The amount of times that Nick has complained about something that I've, like, put in his suitcase, because I'll pack the family's luggage.

[Nick]

She packs your suitcase for you.

[Vanita]

Oh, do we need to have a list of all the things I do?

[Natalie]

Oh, he doesn't. He doesn't get the remote at night.

[Vanita]

He doesn't get the water.

[Nick]

He doesn't do the nightly errands, and he doesn't pack for himself.

[Natalie]

And he'll be like. And he'll be like, why did you pack me this? What the hell? Like, where's my. You only packed me T shirts and shorts. Like, you know I hate shorts.

[Vanita]

All right, you want to get into that story? You want to get into that story? One. One time. That's the first time Natalie packed me, and she's referring to this one particular time where I didn't let up because where did we go? I forget.

[Natalie]

Was it our honeymoon?

[Vanita]

Were shorts. It was our honeymoon. I was our honeymoon. She was like, I'm going to pack for you. I love. My love. I'm going to pack for you.

[Natalie]

Yes.

[Mary]

Acts of service.

[Vanita]

Acts of service. Yes. Yes. And she had. She looked beautiful, by the way. I went. My wife, on our honeymoon looked stunning. She had variety of outfits and selections.

[Nick]

I see where this is going.

[Vanita]

I had a pair of pants and maybe two shirts.

[Natalie]

Sorry. I didn't know he wanted all these jeans in Puerto Rico.

[Vanita]

I was like.

[Natalie]

Sorry.

[Vanita]

I was like, you packed for me? Like, she packed me like three items.

[Nick]

What was in the rest of the suitcase?

[Vanita]

Great question. More of her stuff.

[Nick]

Okay, well, you know, she does have the photos and the, you know, needs to look nice and the dinners and.

[Natalie]

Thank you.

[Vanita]

Yeah. Anyways, I love you. I love you too. How are your flowers?

[Natalie]

They were absolutely beautiful. He did send me some flowers and said, miss you.

[Nick]

You love flowers.

[Natalie]

I do love flowers. Well, Nick is really. He's really good about flowers. Like, and I know it's because he has the florist on speed dial and he'll just. The florist will text him, being like, hey, buddy, it's St. Patrick's Day. You want to send some flowers? And Nick's like, yeah, sure. Happy St. Patty's Day. Love, Nick.

[Nick]

Do they really remind you?

[Natalie]

No, he did on Valentine's Day because.

[Vanita]

I accidentally read the text I sent her. No, what happen happened was I sent her flowers just because.

[Nick]

Huh. That's sweet.

[Vanita]

I spend. I was thinking about it about $12,000 a year on my wife's for flowers.

[Dylan]

Bougie flowers. Does it come with the vase?

[Nick]

It does.

[Dylan]

Those vases are nice. I have.

[Natalie]

But also. So I have so now because he's is so gracious with his flowers, I have nowhere to put these vases. And I'm like, I can't just throw these away. Like, these are such nice. So there's.

[Vanita]

I sent him just cause. And anyways, it was a week and a half away for Valentine's Day. And he was like, hey, we're getting busy for Valentine's Day. Would you like to get on the. On the sketch? And I was like, sure. Totes.

[Nick]

Thanks, bud.

[Mary]

For sure.

[Nick]

Yeah, make them big. Make them nice.

[Vanita]

That was the one time he gave me a little heads up and then I was like.

[Nick]

And of course she saw it.

[Vanita]

I did get a Costa at the wedding, though.

[Nick]

Oh, yeah?

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

How was that wedding was tons of fun. Wonderful. It was. I really. Obviously since our wedding, which we loved. And it was like the best wedding ever. But, you know, because it was ours. So biased, of course. But this was in New York. It was at this beautiful Chinese restaurant. It was my first Jewish wedding, which was a lot of fun. The culture of the community, so much fun. Like, just great. It was at this beautiful Chinese restaurant. And what I loved about it is because, like, if I were to have one, our wedding was great. But like. And I think the food was fine.

[Nick]

We had boiled peanuts, Mac and cheese.

[Natalie]

Yeah, that was at our welcome party.

[Vanita]

Yeah, but like, the food was Fine. I don't know if anyone was, like, talking about the food when we got done.

[Natalie]

Just to interrupt for a second. We do, like, whenever Nick and I were starting the wedding planning process, we were like, food has to be like. We wanted food trucks, but we didn't want people to wait in line for the food trucks. We wanted to be served hot. We wanted to be this. And then we were like, we are doing way too much. No one gives a fudge. They're just gonna, like, eat what they want, people.

[Vanita]

But, like, I don't think the food was, like, you remember the food from this wedding in the best possible way. It was, like, at a Chinese. It was, like, at an amazing Chinese food restaurant. And it was like, you know, it was like, I don't know, like, 100, 125 people. It wasn't, like, a huge wedding, but it was big enough. And it was, like, in this big dining room, but it felt really intimate. It was, like a big, intimate dinner. And I, with a huge family and friends having just amazing food and, like, you know, great speeches and things like that. And then we dance. So it was a lot of fun. And then afterwards, then someone came up absolutely hammered and stumbled up to me, said that they were a journalist and that this was off the record. And they started asking me a bunch of divisive questions, which really made me feel uncomfortable. Yikes.

[Nick]

How'd you get out of it?

[Vanita]

I was like, I don't think this is any of your business. And then. To which she took offense. And then her friends kind of butted in and apologized for her and said, hurt people. Hurt people. And she's going through it right now.

[Martin Cove]

Okay.

[Mary]

Sometimes weddings bring the worst out in people.

[Vanita]

There was that. But I did get to talk parenting with Daniel Radcliffe.

[Nick]

That's pretty cool.

[Vanita]

Fun. He was also a guest at the wedding. Lovely man who also has a young child at home. So we get to talk about parenting, which is a lot of fun. So really cool. We do have a great episode lined up for you today. And this week we have a very explosive, very dramatic, very incredible going deeper episode this week with the one and only Bella. Thorne is with us from not talking much about all her drama in her life. Well, she's here this Wednesday, and she really opens up, and with a lot of drama in her life going on, she kind of took a back seat, and now she's here to talk about all the things going on in her life. So it's a really fantastic episode. She really opens up and. And speaks to just all the controversy that she's been going through. So she is with us on Wednesday. You will definitely not want to miss that episode. Also, we have at the end of our episode, the wonderful and endearing Martin Cove. You know him from the hit series Cobra Kai. They're in their last season on Netflix. Also from the Karate Kid movies. A legend, a legendary 80s villain, and now a more complex character on Cobra Kai. But he is with us, has some great stories and can't wait for you guys to listen to that as well. Later, have Alex went home on the Bachelor. Mrs. First Impression, Rose Ms. First 101. I. I really thought she was going to be top three or four now. I didn't think so.

[Natalie]

Listen, I've been. I would like someone to replay the tape of me saying that it's going to be Latia and Juliana.

[Vanita]

Yep.

[Natalie]

At the end you did say that.

[Nick]

I thought Juliana for sure. And Carolina. So I was very wrong on Carolina, but I was also right on her being the drama. So I'll take it to the bank.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

Then we also before her, we have Vanita from Southern Charm is with us. It's. Talk about all those shenanigans going on in the Bahamas. That was a brutal episode for Shaq.

[Natalie]

Oh, my God.

[Vanita]

Poor guy. Do you think he's just taking one for the team?

[Mary]

No, no, I think he's.

[Nick]

I think he's delusional. Yeah.

[Mary]

Yeah. Which we've all been there, you know.

[Nick]

You know that text message that was sent?

[Mary]

I mean, not in the Bahamas.

[Natalie]

That text message, he deserves to go to prison.

[Vanita]

Yeah.

[Nick]

But I'm like, even if you're like 16, 14, 30, 40, whatever. I feel like some.

[Natalie]

One point, you're never received that.

[Nick]

But have you ever sent a message.

[Natalie]

Absolutely fudgeing not oh, my go freckles on your lips?

[Nick]

Well, yeah, like, it's too far. But I'm just saying, like, that text message of like, oh, I'm divulging all of my feelings in hopes that this will win you over. And it's like, oh, my God, no. They were never on the same page.

[Mary]

Same channel, same show ending anything with. Thank you for listening to my TED Talk.

[Nick]

Jail.

[Vanita]

Yes.

[Nick]

Jail for sure. Don't tell me how I feel.

[Mary]

Nope.

[Nick]

I know that you love me.

[Vanita]

I kind of feel for Shep. I do. I think he's this. He's a grown man with a little, you know, a little boy mentality. This is the type of text you're supposed to send at like 21.

[Natalie]

Exactly.

[Nick]

Maybe 14.

[Vanita]

And then you're either your girlfriends or guy friends, you know, after you kind of open up and, like, spill your guts and emotions in a way that you should just never have, they're like, yeah, don't do that anymore. But, like, the fact that, like, Shep is, what, 44, and. And this is the time of his life where he's finally, like, being crushed by someone emotionally. And he sends the text like, this.

[Nick]

Is like, don't make me feel like I'm seeing eye to eye with Austin. Like, Austin was one of my favorites this episode. And I was like, how is that happening?

[Vanita]

Why? Just because he was giving me just.

[Nick]

Being real, like, not sugarcoating it and being like, nah, man. Like, maybe she'll get something. He was like, you shouldn't have sent that.

[Natalie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Vanita]

Maybe Vanita will let us know if she was fake drowning.

[Nick]

That I do have some questions. Or, like, what about jt?

[Natalie]

Were you attracted to?

[Vanita]

Or is it even real?

[Nick]

You know, let's ask her.

[Vanita]

We'll find out.

[Dylan]

Can we talk about the Erewhon $20 Strawberry?

[Mary]

Not in plural, singular strawberry.

[Dylan]

So Erewhon just, like, started selling these. And let me read it for people.

[Vanita]

Who don't know about Bougie. Erewh. Because most people aren't live. Is it. Is Erewhon only in California?

[Dylan]

I think it's also in New York, isn't it?

[Natalie]

No.

[Dylan]

Oh, well.

[Natalie]

Only in la.

[Dylan]

Basically, Erewhon is, like, bougier than a Whole Foods. A nugget expensive.

[Natalie]

It's a grocery store. They have, like, a hot bar where you could, like, get lunch, or there's got, like, all kinds of foods. They have a smoothie bar. A lot of celebrities do, like, smoothie collabs with Erewhon.

[Vanita]

It's where, like, hot people who can't cook go to eat healthy food.

[Natalie]

Yes. Like, I've seen a lot of influencers be, like, Thanksgiving, and it'll be just a bunch of, like, Erewhon hot bar food.

[Dylan]

Yeah. But for the price tag, add a zero onto everything.

[Natalie]

No, it's crazy.

[Nick]

Everything is organic or everything is made out of something you didn't know could make that substance, like pistachio flower.

[Dylan]

So basically, they're selling singular strawberries from kyoto, Japan, for $19 each. And this is the blurb for the strawberries. Our strawberries redefine sweetness and beauty. Each berry is cultivated to achieve perfect symmetry, brilliant color, and exceptional size. Whether choosing our tochiaka or rare white jewel varieties accept an explosion of flavor that elevates the ordinary strawberry to extraordinary heights. And basically what they're saying is organic strawber are rare, accounting for only.002% of Japan's total strawberry harvest. This is like a rare.

[Natalie]

So then why are we stealing them from Japan? Like, if I will be. The only time I'm buying a $20 one strawberry is if I am in Japan. Like, the fact that we are, like, importing them here. I was going to say selling them at Air1. Like, it kind of.

[Vanita]

This is bad press for L. A. Like, fresh off the California fires, where obviously there's a lot of people in need in L. A. Obviously we know that L. A is a city that does have a lot of money with. For some people, not a lot of people in the city and the, like, it's making news that there's a grocery store in LA selling $20 strawberries and they're flying off the shelves is a bad look for us.

[Dylan]

Yeah, well, people are saying, like, this is proof that Erewhon is a social experiment. Because it's like, you could just like, make something super expensive for something so cheap. And, like, people are gonna buy it.

[Natalie]

They had a cluster of ice cubes for 18 the balls, right? Yeah.

[Vanita]

Yeah. What do you mean, a cluster of ice cubes?

[Mary]

What if I walked into.

[Dylan]

They were like martini balls, like the.

[Nick]

Like the whiskey round spheres of ice.

[Natalie]

That's literally frozen water was 18.

[Nick]

Well, it was the craziest for one single strawberry. And then I'm like, what that says to me is that probably if you go to Japan, it's probably like a dollar. And that was all just, like, shipping and getting the, like, single use plastic. That's, like, not even that.

[Mary]

I mean, I think to buy a 20 strawberry is loser behavior.

[Dylan]

I kind of want to do it, though. Like, I want to try. Like, what if we bought it for the team and we all had a nipple?

[Vanita]

I bet it tastes like a strawberry.

[Natalie]

Yeah. You know what? I wonder if. Speaking of social experiments. So there's this influencer podcaster, her name's Avery woods, and she's been, like, under fire recently because she did a whole episode saying some, like, controversial things. She, like, said something about, like, Jesus Christ, like, doing stuff to women to get into heaven or something. I don't know. It was very crazy. She also said that, like, she had C sections, so therefore her vagina is, like, pristine. So basically, like, shaming all women who have had a vaginal birth, which is crazy because she is like a mommy vlogger. So that's like, pretty much her entire audience of women.

[Vanita]

I mean, assuming she Was telling a joke that didn't land or was she being serious?

[Natalie]

I mean, I don't. It wasn't in joke form. I think it was her being like, well, I had a C section, so, like, I'm pristine down there.

[Vanita]

Oh, yeah.

[Natalie]

Like, that was, I think the way she knew that was the way she delivered it.

[Vanita]

And what's the opposite of pristine for all the ladies who didn't?

[Natalie]

Yeah, it's like, what are you saying about my vagina? And like, how do you know what my vagina looks like?

[Nick]

You know, I don't know.

[Natalie]

So it was a little. It's rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, as it should have. And she's now come out and given an apology and has said that the entire episode was scripted.

[Vanita]

Of the podcast episode. Do you think she. She's lying.

[Mary]

It's like Jo Koy at the Golden Globes throwing writers under the bus for what?

[Natalie]

Literally? It's like. Well, I. I mean, have, like, have.

[Vanita]

They ever scripted a podcast? Is their entire show scripted?

[Mary]

They're scripted podcasts.

[Vanita]

No, I know. Know. But I'm saying, oh, this'd be like if one day we were like, that one episode, you know, where we said that thing that pisses you guys off that was so scripted, you could.

[Mary]

People would buy that.

[Vanita]

I bet she's taking a leave.

[Mary]

It is just.

[Natalie]

It's like, I don't. I just feel like that's. How can. I mean, I guess podcasts are scripted. I just. In my mind, I, like, cannot imagine us like, sitting down on like a Tuesday afternoon and writing Wednesday's episode and like, writing in being like. Like, I had a C section. So my vagina is pristine. Okay.

[Nick]

I will say that. Say this like, that's what I'm saying. We.

[Vanita]

She's probably.

[Dylan]

Did she release, like, proof?

[Natalie]

I. Not to my knowledge. It was just her, like, crying, being like, I'm sorry. The producers. It was scripted episode, like, oh, my God, Mic drop.

[Dylan]

Right. Okay.

[Natalie]

But she is on. On well's network and people said that like, Alex and Sophia used to, of call her daddy. Used to like, script all their. They've like, admitted to being like, yeah, we used to script some episodes. Episodes. So people are like, I think there's.

[Vanita]

A difference between, like, writing her joke or two or like, coming up with a story that like, call her daddy with. You know, when they were talking about the Gluck Luck 3000 or whatever. Yeah, I think they definitely talked about some of their anecdotes or whatever. But that's not the same as like a scripted whole episode.

[Natalie]

But do you think blaming like non landing jokes on it being scripted is a cop out?

[Vanita]

Yes, because like, if anyone on this team wrote a joke and I said it and then I first of all read the joke, joke said, oh, that's funny, I'll say that. And then delivered said joke, then there's the whole opportunity for us to like, listen as a group to the joke and then we, you know, edit the episodes and someone's like, everyone listens to that joke and everyone's like, you know, does it land? You know, there's several even for our very, like on a, you know, very simple process over here at the vial files. Like it's scripted or not. I mean, I don't know.

[Nick]

You still said it.

[Vanita]

You still said it.

[Nick]

Whether it came off the top of your head or you approved it and then said it and memorized it and all of the things, like, you still take ownership on the fact that you said it.

[Mary]

Say it, forget it, write it, regret it. Dorindo Medley.

[Vanita]

I mean, you know, she said something that was kind of slightly like, pissed people off. I don't think it's the end of the world. I mean, like, you know, I think.

[Natalie]

It'S just like, obviously very telling when like you're entire. I mean, she's just like coming for her whole audience.

[Nick]

It's like religion vaginas.

[Natalie]

Yeah, it's like you're a mommy blogger and to then like. Or mommy mommy? Is that what they're called nowadays? Mommy, mommy influencer, Mommy blogger? I don't know.

[Dylan]

I think they all apply.

[Vanita]

It's an interesting choice. Yeah. I mean, listen, it's tough. Like, everyone wants to be a comic. Everyone wants to tell a joke. There's a lot of conversations about comedy being dead and things like that. And like, you know, like, which I.

[Natalie]

Can totally, like, I can see that, like frustration with comedians. But like, I just don't how. I don't understand how any of like saying like, here's that thing funny.

[Vanita]

But that's the thing between.

[Mary]

You can say anything if it lands or not.

[Vanita]

But the thing is, is this, like, I don't know who this person is, but like, she's not a. And this is not meant to be a criticism, but like, my understanding, she's not a professional comedian. Right. We have Nikki Glaser on. We've had her on for a couple times, and every time Nikki Glaser has come on, she says multiple things that piss off this audience. And you know what Nikki thinks? Not a goddamn thing. You know what I'm saying? She doesn't give a fuck. She's a professional comedian. So when she goes on stage and tells her jokes and does roasts, she does say things all the time that rub people the wrong way. She doesn't issue apologies. You know, she is a comedian. She just like, allows people to like, consume her art. Art and have an opinion. And when non comedians go on a platform and try to tell jokes and they don't land, I don't, I mean, I don't think, you know, if you're gonna tell a joke, own it. Own the joke and lean in. Don't apologize, you know, or. Or apologize and stop telling jokes. But you know what I'm saying? Like, you don't blame. Don't split, you know, split the difference and be like, well, I told that joke. It's not my joke and I'm not a comedian. But like, you know, so don't tell. Tell jokes, you know, or, or tell the jokes and like, say I was joking and like, don't apologize. Because you know what I've learned in 2025 not has ever landed ever with anyone that you're apologizing to. They don't give a fuck about your apology. They just want to make you pay more. So don't even say you're sorry if you actually hurt a person with your actions. Not like the Internet. Fine. You should probably apologize for it. Like you don't. Don't apologize. The Internet. The Internet doesn't give a fuck.

[Natalie]

The Internet. It's the same thing that I've said before about, like, the Internet doesn't care about the truth. Like, they only care about the fun, like crazy narrative that whatever person is spinning. They don't ever care about the truth. So yeah, it's like, to like correct someone or to apologize. It's never going to land and it's never going go as viral as the initial story did. And it's. People are never going to forgive you.

[Vanita]

Or give a. Comedians don't apologize. They tell their jokes, they move on. They, you know, they do their thing.

[Natalie]

You know, what were we talking about before we started about someone.

[Mary]

Sienna.

[Natalie]

Sienna. So on Southern Charm, obviously we have Sienna and Shep. A very uncomfortable relationship to watch.

[Vanita]

It's really great, to say the least.

[Nick]

Can we call it a relationship?

[Vanita]

I.

[Natalie]

It's very uncomfortable that we can call it uncomfortable.

[Mary]

Shep Duland, crazy bad, bad.

[Natalie]

Uh, but it's like his, what we thought like his girlfriend before they ended up in the Bahamas, and now we see that it Is very clearly one sided. But she has now taken to social media. Of course, she's gone to TikTok and been like, hey, everyone, do y'all care? Like, I'll do a series on like my time on the show and what it was supposed to be. And everyone was like, oh, yeah, sure, like, give us the tea. She was like, okay, I'll do a live. A TikTok live. And then she posted another one being like, so no one wanted me to do a TikTok live. Uh, so I guess I'll just do like a couple series series starting with how she met Shep. All of that is like, TikTok.

[Vanita]

These are tiktoks.

[Natalie]

These are tiktoks. Yeah. And she said a whole lot of nothing for 7, 6, 7 parts.

[Nick]

Could have been just one 10 minute TikTok.

[Natalie]

It honestly could have been nothing because she really didn't say anything that, like, was news to me.

[Nick]

100.

[Vanita]

What did she say?

[Natalie]

She said that she met Shep on Raya, which we knew. She said that she also met Whitney on Raya, which we also knew. She did show a screenshot of her and Whitney's conversation on. She goes. I won't say the platform of which I took this screenshot because you can't take screenshots on Raya. So she was like, I won't say the name. She like shows up like, it's another. She likes taking. Using her phone on another phone to like show the proof. It was very all. I'm sure she's gonna get kicked off Raya after this. But. So she said that basically all Whitney ever said to her was like, how are you doing? And she said, I'm good, how are you? And he never responded.

[Vanita]

Didn't Sierra say something like she accused him of being a catfish or something?

[Natalie]

Yeah, yeah. She said that he looked very different in person than he did on his Raya profile.

[Vanita]

But then she said, say her mom was like the biggest south southern charm fan ever.

[Dylan]

Her grandmother.

[Vanita]

But she doesn't know who Whitney is.

[Nick]

I don't know if she's never sat down and watched an episode with a grandma.

[Vanita]

A little embarrassing for Whitney to like have a photo that's 10 years old on his dating account.

[Nick]

But like, well, also Whitney was drunk on his episode, on the last episode, saying that, like, she matched with him first when it actually came out that, like he direct messaged her. They were never a match. So he pursued her for it to go nowhere.

[Martin Cove]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Vanita]

I mean, not surprising. I'm just saying that's not really a catfish.

[Nick]

But his picture didn't match the person.

[Natalie]

If he used a picture from 10 years ago and he's aged faster.

[Mary]

I feel like I'm catfishing when my hair is bleached in any of, like, my hinge.

[Vanita]

Like.

[Natalie]

Like pictures.

[Vanita]

But again, it's not. It's not catfishing. Catfishing is when you're pretending to be someone else. Like showing a picture. No, it's just, if it's not what.

[Natalie]

You look like currently today, this is.

[Vanita]

You being really insecure.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

And delusional at the same time.

[Nick]

If you're wondering why it doesn't work out, it's because you don't look like your pictures.

[Mary]

Yeah, fine.

[Vanita]

But you're.

[Martin Cove]

You're.

[Vanita]

You know, it's like gaslighting. No, it's not, but. Okay. Catfishing is pretending to be someone you're not.

[Nick]

But it also is using a photo.

[Natalie]

That is not what you look like currently right now.

[Nick]

If you gained 200 pounds and you used a photo of yourself at, like, 100 pounds in college, like, that's catfishing. Oh, my God.

[Natalie]

Definitely.

[Dylan]

Are you the same person you were 10 years ago?

[Natalie]

If you post a picture without a beard and then someone sees you with a beard and they're like, oh, my God, that's literally not the same person.

[Vanita]

Yeah, I understand. It's misleading. That's not. I'm just saying. It's not catfishing. It's just.

[Natalie]

Oh, my gosh. She's very. Like, it's definition has to be. Yeah. Webster's Dictionary and Nick's brain.

[Vanita]

You're right. Words don't have meaning anymore.

[Mary]

What do you think Mike White thinks about this catfishing situation? Because he did model the family, the Southern family in White Lotus, after Southern charm characters.

[Natalie]

Oh, did he?

[Mary]

He did. The youngest son in that family said, Mike told us to go watch Southern charm. In fact, Jason Isaacs, who plays the dad, modeled his whole accent after Thomas Ravenel. Thomas Ravenel, disgraced congressman. Yeah.

[Nick]

Who literally just dropped out of the race for governor of South Carolina the same week that he submitted himself. He took himself.

[Vanita]

Do we have that guy's voice?

[Mary]

Thomas Raven. It's just a.

[Nick]

It's. It's a very old.

[Natalie]

I usually am not very, like, strict on country accents, Southern accents, but honestly, his was very good. It's.

[Mary]

It, like, sends a chill up my spine of, like, making me feel like.

[Natalie]

Some of the ones in, like, Landman are not very good. And it.

[Vanita]

This guy, this congressman was on watch. What happened?

[Natalie]

He was in.

[Nick]

He was in the first like five seasons of Southern charm.

[Vanita]

Oh. Oh.

[Mary]

Oh, my God. The mannerisms are so similar too.

[Vanita]

I don't think so. I just think that, you know, again.

[Martin Cove]

I've said this innumerable times. The age difference is so great that.

[Vanita]

You know, it's like my preacher told me, you know, and he's very. You have a preacher, T? Yeah, I do. Yeah.

[Martin Cove]

And he was a sex therapist because he said, look.

[Vanita]

Wow. Well, pretty good. Pretty good accent, isn't it? He really did model it.

[Mary]

And the fact that Jason Isaacs is.

[Nick]

Like a Bravo girly.

[Mary]

A Bravo girly. But also like, he is Shakespearean British. And then he's able.

[Natalie]

He's from England.

[Vanita]

Yeah.

[Mary]

He plays the dad, Lucius Malfoy. Lucius Malfoy in Harry Potter.

[Vanita]

He was also in the. Mel Gibson's the Patriot as a British soldier.

[Mary]

He's like British, British.

[Natalie]

See, like that. That's an amazing actor that you're able to like, switch your accents like that. I mean, like, I was just saying there's in Landman, it's kind of hard to listen to. And maybe like, Texan accents are different than like Alabama, Georgia accents. I don't know. I mean, obviously that's what I'm used to, but it's. That's hard to listen to. And like, and. And the. And these people on White Lotus's family, even the mom.

[Vanita]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

They all crushed that. That Southern accent.

[Mary]

Parker Posey, like, like the fan. The sec family of it all just like, sends me. I'm like, I know these people so, so well.

[Martin Cove]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And I am like crushes. It's. It's. Honestly. Yeah, that's very well casted.

[Mary]

Yeah, it's really good.

[Vanita]

Did you see Rachel's Bronnie commercial?

[Natalie]

Do you think Matt James saw it? You think he's off the grid?

[Vanita]

I think he's off the grid, yeah.

[Natalie]

But he's not off the grid enough to not post.

[Vanita]

Do you think Craig's gonna get some kind of commercial?

[Natalie]

I don't know. I mean, Ariana Maddox got the Duracell and the Battery.

[Vanita]

Rachel's getting scandal treatment.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

After Matt James, Paige is always going.

[Natalie]

To be booked and busy. Yeah. Change in Paige's life. No matter what happens, like, she will always be booked and busy. But I don't. I. I don't know if he will.

[Vanita]

Probably not.

[Natalie]

Probably not.

[Vanita]

My guess.

[Natalie]

Probably not. I mean, Rachel's. She did a ad with Bronnie, the, like, paper towel brand says she's saying she's, like, cooking from home now because she doesn't have to pick out the perfect dinner spot anymore because obviously they were, like, foodie influencers. And we're going to all these restaurants together, and she has someone who can. She can always depend on when life gets messy. And then she introduces, like, Bronnie mascot.

[Vanita]

Great commercial.

[Natalie]

It was a really great. Really great.

[Mary]

The Bronnie guy is hot.

[Vanita]

What would Craig's commercial be?

[Natalie]

Did they ever. Did they have any like. Like, obviously they had, like, going out. Ariana and Tom Sandoval had. She was like, I picked up all the groceries and batteries for you. Like, that worked for her.

[Dylan]

He likes bees. He can do, like, a honey commercial.

[Mary]

Honeycombs.

[Natalie]

Like, now I'm no longer sharing my bees. I can just, you know, don't like.

[Mary]

Female queen Corona Corona commercial. He's sitting on a beach because he doesn't have to go to the city and anymore.

[Natalie]

There we go with Peyton Manning. Yeah, There you go. Pretty good.

[Vanita]

I don't think he's gonna get one.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

No. But he does have a successful pillow company with two storefronts, and he does just opened up a successful bar.

[Natalie]

Everyone will be fine. Yeah.

[Vanita]

Oh, Liam Meester is a yes.

[Nick]

Nobody wants this season two cast. Leighton Meester, Adam's wife, in the upcoming season. And I think everyone's really excited about it.

[Mary]

Cute.

[Natalie]

It's really exciting. I saw their little bit at what.

[Nick]

Was the SAG Awards last night.

[Natalie]

SAG Awards last night, where obviously we have Kristen Bell, who is voice of Gossip Girl, and then obviously Leighton Meester who plays Blair Waldorf.

[Nick]

Wait, Kristen Bell was the narrator? Gossip Girl.

[Vanita]

Really?

[Natalie]

So she. Anytime.

[Mary]

You know that.

[Natalie]

Is that crazy?

[Nick]

That was her?

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Mary]

XOXO Gossip Girl last night at the SAG Awards.

[Nick]

They did a bit.

[Natalie]

They did a bit. And it. I mean, it was honestly, like, so cute to see them back.

[Nick]

Back to see that duo.

[Natalie]

So I'm really excited to have them. And obviously, to have Jackie Tone back on our television will be very nice.

[Vanita]

When is season two supposed to come out? Are they filming right now?

[Natalie]

They're doing, like, table reads and stuff. Yeah, I'm sure it'll be. Yeah.

[Vanita]

For a whole year.

[Dylan]

Jackie said it would be like spring, summer, I think when she was on the show.

[Natalie]

That's crazy.

[Nick]

I love that a show called Nobody wants this when it's like everybody wants this.

[Mary]

It's kind of a perfect name for a show.

[Justin]

Truly is.

[Mary]

Because you're only setting yourself up to, like, defy expectations.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

Did you see the. Ashley Darby, the Potomac housewife hard launched her divorce.

[Mary]

This is the funniest thing I've ever seen.

[Dylan]

Like, she's been teasing this divorce for so long.

[Mary]

And then finally the concept of hard launching your divorce after teasing it. First off.

[Natalie]

Oh, wow. She really did hard on a whole photo shoot.

[Vanita]

Hard line.

[Natalie]

You know what that reminds me of?

[Vanita]

What?

[Natalie]

Monica Garcia, when she did her like, burn book photo shoot or whatever. And Monica did it first and she like, did her. Yeah, I'm here for it. Do you think they actually put words all in the. In the that stuff or.

[Mary]

No, it's a stock photo.

[Dylan]

You can see the Photoshopped.

[Natalie]

It is Canva.

[Mary]

That's not even Photoshop. That's Canva.

[Nick]

Look at officially and how it goes off the page.

[Vanita]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

Gotta respect Ashley. She's a hustler.

[Mary]

She is.

[Nick]

By all means, celebrate it if you're happy about it.

[Natalie]

I guess you see that Corey Bierman and Kim Sultak. Yes. They are divorced again.

[Dylan]

I've had to check out of that whole. Every week is a new headline.

[Vanita]

Aren't they always calling the cops?

[Nick]

The police are always called.

[Dylan]

She was selling her Christmas trees that are worth like thousands of dollars the other day. Like, there's always something weird going on.

[Nick]

New body cam.

[Dylan]

I'm pretty sure the house just went into foreclosure. Like she moved out and stuff, but who knows?

[Nick]

I just wish she quit playing and just come back to Atlanta.

[Natalie]

When does the new season start?

[Nick]

March 9th.

[Natalie]

We'll be covering that. I just got shown. I just got fed a clip from Real House of Atlanta. And it's when Phaedra. Phaedra was pregnant.

[Martin Cove]

Oh.

[Natalie]

And it's all like, when are you due? And she was like, I don't know. Sometime in July, I think I'm just gonna have this baby right now. And they were like, aren't you five months? Yeah. And they were like, you can't have a baby at 5 months. She's like, the doctor said I could. They're all like, that's how that works.

[Dylan]

But also just the table of like, Sheree and the woman being like, so she must be lying about this. And it's like, what purpose does she have lying about her baby coming?

[Nick]

Oh, good.

[Vanita]

All right, well, up next we have Vanita from Southern Charm. Let's find out if she was actually drowning.

[Natalie]

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[Vanita]

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[Natalie]

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[Vanita]

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[Natalie]

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[Vanita]

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[Natalie]

Vanita.

[Vanita]

Hi, Vanita. How are you?

[Justin]

How are you?

[Vanita]

So good. What a beautiful background you got there.

[Nick]

And you look absolutely stunning too, by the way.

[Justin]

Thank you. I'm in my kitchen right now. I figured this would be the quietest face that I have.

[Natalie]

So colorful.

[Vanita]

Well, let's just get right into it. First question is, is, was that a real drowning situation where Craig had to save you, or was that a stage scene? Because the. The people are, you know, kind of up in arms that felt like a little like, you know, staged. And you're smiling, you know.

[Justin]

You know, a lot of people do crazy shit for reality tv. I'm not one of them. I was actually drowning.

[Natalie]

Oh, yeah, unfortunately, we are glad you're okay. I, in fact, had water in my lungs.

[Vanita]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And I'm smiling because, like, it's like, comical the things that people have the audacity to say about what we do on tv. You know what I mean? Like, oh, she's drowning for a storyline. You think I would risk my life that my mother spent 32 years raising me with on for a TV show? Absolutely not.

[Vanita]

Well, I think you were. You were real fake drowning, but fake, fake drowning, you know, you're just like, you never. You never fake drowned as a kid, you know, just wailing your arms.

[Natalie]

Nick just needed attention. He had 10 siblings, so Nick was like, I'm not drowning.

[Martin Cove]

Someone save me.

[Vanita]

Maybe that Was it what attracted you to JT in the first place? I think a lot of people are curious.

[Justin]

Yeah. His personality. He's a really good standup guy. And I think that the version of himself that he puts on for TV is the complete different person, a completely different person than I, that I get behind closed doors.

[Nick]

When you're watching the show back, are you seeing the, like, contrast between the person that you have a personal relationship versus what we're seeing as viewers? Viewers. And, like, what do you say to him if he asks you about it?

[Justin]

I don't know. It was kind of hard to go because this was the first year that, like, we really kind of put our friendship out there for the cameras. You know what I mean? And, like, so I haven't really been able to address him about that because we're, you know, not good.

[Mary]

Right.

[Vanita]

So did he do something to you that are, like, were you guys in any type of exclusive relationship? Let he cheat on you? Did, like, what. What happened?

[Justin]

No, we weren't ever in any exclusive relationship. We were dating. And I.

[Vanita]

What does that mean? I'm cur. I. I only just, like, in 2025 terms. Like, I know some people say dating, some of them not exclusive, but, like, yeah, what. What does dating but not exclusive mean to you?

[Justin]

Oh, so we were just, like, figuring out because we came to this crossroad of, like, okay, do we, like, actually like each other or do we like each other because we, like, work together? You know, like how you have those, like, work relationships. You're like, oh, like, that person's hot. But then, like, when you're not working anymore, you're like, oh, ew, what was I thinking?

[Natalie]

Right?

[Justin]

So, like, we would go out almost every night to dinner, we would do lunch, we would do work meetings together, and, like, really, like, shoot the. And we did that almost every day for about two. Two months.

[Vanita]

Were you guys also hooking up? No.

[Justin]

And everyone keeps asking me that. And, like, no. Like, sorry.

[Vanita]

I'm just. Yeah, like, no apology needed. I just, you know, like, when you're dating, sometimes you are, sometimes you're not, you know, So I just really set.

[Justin]

That boundary, like, right away. We're like. We're just going to date like normal people, see if we like each other. Nothing physical, none of that. And see, like, okay, is it more than just like, oh, I think you're cute. You think I'm cute? Like, do we actually really, deep down, like, like each other?

[Vanita]

Gotcha.

[Justin]

And we dated for, I guess, like, two months. And then the super teaser Drops. And this woman decides to annihilate me on social media that he was dating that I was unaware of, and basically, like, calls me out of my name. And I was just like, hey, like, I don't know what's going on with this. I need you to put a handle on it. And he was like, I can't do anything about it. And then I was just like, okay, I need to take a step back from this because you want to let me get annihilated by.

[Vanita]

Why couldn't he do anything about it? Was it. Was this woman real? Like, did he. Was he, in fact, dating her? Okay, yeah.

[Justin]

And he was, in fact, dating her. And he was like, there's nothing I can do about this. And I was just like, that was my first, like, red flag of like, okay, like, I have to take a step back from this. Like, I need a moment. And I took a step back. And me taking a step back lasted for about a week. He texted me the night of my best friend's wedding. I didn't text back because I was at the wedding. And I went to text him back the next day. And before I could even do that, he posted that he was in a relationship with this girl. It was complicated. And I'm like, oh, okay, cool. So I found out when the rest of the world found out that he had a girlfriend.

[Vanita]

Damn.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

So wait, did he. So it's what you're saying? It sounds like he faked dated you for the show while also having, quote, unquote, a real relationship outside of the show. Is that how it felt to you?

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And, like, it was kind of like a slap in the face that people say the same shit about me. Vanita doesn't show much. She doesn't share much about her life. She's so protective over herself, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay. The one year I decided to, like, let it rip, I literally get played. I'm like, okay, this is why. I don't.

[Dylan]

Know.

[Justin]

Like, it backfires on me.

[Natalie]

Damn. Okay.

[Nick]

Because timeline wise, were you dating during the filming of the show, or is this, like, post filming, but before the teaser came out, out, and then there was a girlfriend that was shown on the show. Is this the same person?

[Martin Cove]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

Wow.

[Justin]

It's the same person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all this was in post. So, like, while we were filming this year, like, you know, just teetered about showing our friendship more. And, like, we were flirting back and forth, like, you know, shooting the. And then after cameras dropped, like, that's when we started to like actually date when I came back from New York for the summer.

[Vanita]

Okay.

[Justin]

And then, then he quit and then he still comes back to do a green screen and then enters this girl into the situation. So he made his decision on his own.

[Nick]

What was your reaction to his announcement of leaving the show and then also coming back to film green screens?

[Justin]

My reaction to him quitting was actually I was devastated for him because at this point him and I hadn't spoken in two weeks, I think. So, like, I just didn't know where his head was at. Like, and prior his head was not in a good space whatsoever. So, like, I was equally mad but like nervous for his well being. I was just like, okay, like, what does he got going on? But then I had to remember he's choosing to not talk to me because he's dating someone else. So like, I got to let that go. But my phone blew up that morning. I'll never forget it. I was staying at the Ritz, Carlson and Amelia Beach.

[Vanita]

Amelia Island.

[Justin]

And like, I think he posted it at like 6:30 in the morning. And I get a call from the network at like 7:15 and they're like, hey, like, dude. Because everyone always knew to check in with me on him because we were so close. They were like, hey, like, do you know what's going on on? Like, where is he? Like, why is he saying this? I was like, your guess is just as good as mine. I have no idea what's going on. Like, not a single clue.

[Vanita]

What does the rest of your cast.

[Justin]

Not a single. Oh, they didn't care because at that point they were tired of him. You know what I mean?

[Vanita]

Like, well, not about him, but more about you, him and kind of just kind of playing you.

[Justin]

A lot of them were disappointed, like if, if I had Madison, like being like, listen, I don't like him, but like, if you're liking him, like, cool. Like he can hang around. Like, if I got Madison to do that and you still played me. Like, I literally was risking friendships that I had cultivated and built and like spent a long time trying to get them to where they are now. And I'm just like, guys, like, you know, like, as my friend, like, I just need you guys to have my back with this. Like, I know you don't like it, like, but like, I like it and like, I'm happy. Whatever. They're like, fine. And then I turned around and like got played by him. And it was very, very. Yeah, I don't think anyone was happy.

[Vanita]

And why does Madison hate him so.

[Natalie]

Much because he did the whole, like, we. You wanted to sleep with me.

[Nick]

You wanted to have an affair on your beautiful husband.

[Vanita]

I assumed it was deeper than that. Or she only hates him because of that.

[Justin]

I mean, that's deep enough. Like, you're literally going out to the world and saying that I had an affair. You're trying to insinuate an affair when I didn't happen. Meanwhile, like, Madison was going through God knows knows. I shouldn't say God knows what, because I know exactly what. But, like, her life is flipped and upside down, and you're out here screaming about, oh, yeah, like an affair.

[Vanita]

Like, don't do that.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

Yeah. So back to. I'm just curious, though, because back to, like, when we first started talking, you're like, you know, TV JT is different than real life jt. But it kind of seems like maybe it's not, you know, because, like, it almost feels like real life JT is just as smarmy and backstabby as. As TV jt. I mean, what's. What is the difference now that you are kind of saying his. His atrocities out loud?

[Justin]

I know.

[Mary]

I don't know.

[Natalie]

Yeah, got me there.

[Justin]

I gotta be really honest. I have no idea. And, like, I. I have to think about it now. Like, was he playing me? Like, was he showing me a version of himself to get me in good graces? And this is actually who he is in real life is the TV version of him, And I got the version that I thought was the real version, which it. And it might not have been. You know what I mean?

[Natalie]

So is the first time you confront him about all of this at the reunion, or have y'all had a conversation before?

[Justin]

First time I confront him is at the reunion.

[Vanita]

Watching this season, it feels like he kind of has been ostracized by the rest of the cast. The guys really want nothing to do with them. Madison wants nothing to do with them. And it sure looks like. Especially after hearing your story now. It sure looks like his big plan was to, like, make sure you were cool with them because no one else was and no one else would with them. And we know, like, I mean, you can't create a scene if you have no one to do a scene with. And it was like, well, at least I have Vanita. And it seemed like he almost used you to have, like, at seat at the table. And his quote, unquote, quitting the show was more like him trying to get ahead of being fired, because everyone's like, I don't Want to fuck with this guy anymore?

[Justin]

Yeah, I. You know, and I looked at it as he was trying to get ahead of how he was going to look now that I knew he was dating someone else the whole time we were filming. You know what I mean? And after filming. So, like, he was trying to get ahead of, like, oh, I don't like the bad guy. You know what I mean? Like, let me go ahead and put this girl online and be like, oh, it's complicated. Which he's now changed that caption four times.

[Vanita]

To what?

[Justin]

Back into what he'll take out the hashtag is complicated. And he'll just be like, oh, like, lost. Like, lost times or favorite moments or whatever. Like, it's insane.

[Vanita]

Who is this person?

[Nick]

They just showed, like, a clip of her when they. When Bonita and JT had, like.

[Vanita]

I mean, his response to you that I can't do anything about it, is crazy. We could do something about it. He could have been like, because she came after you. Right, Right.

[Justin]

And, like, called me a rat and.

[Natalie]

Was like, I don't want any rat.

[Mary]

Friends who rat crazy.

[Natalie]

Me, a rodent with two big teeth and long tail. No.

[Justin]

Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not. So, yeah. And he was just, I can't do anything about it. And it was just like, all right, cool. Flag number one for me was just.

[Vanita]

Like, that was crazy.

[Justin]

Put everything else. Your best friend. You are not going to defend your best friend against someone who is speaking ill towards them. No matter who the other other person is, you're not going to say anything because you don't have any control over that. You can't do anything about it.

[Natalie]

Did this get brought up at reunion?

[Justin]

Yes, it did.

[Natalie]

I was about to say, because this would be a huge issue for me. I'm just like, bro, you. Like, I stood by your side through all this, and you can't be like, hey, babe, maybe don't call her that. I don't know.

[Justin]

Yeah. Like, don't talk about her like that. Like, you might not like her, but, like, what I won't allow you to do is speak ill about her.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Justin]

You know what I mean?

[Vanita]

Or, yeah, he could have been like, it's not her fault. I. Like, she's. She has a whole different impression of my intentions. It's my fault. I did this. Like, that's on me. You should be bad at me. Not. Not Vanita. He could have done that. Damn.

[Nick]

He could have done something more than nothing.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

How are you feeling about Sienna these days?

[Justin]

I don't.

[Vanita]

Is Shep okay? Is his is his heart healed. Do you know? Yeah.

[Justin]

You know, I think Shep's doing good. He posted this video. I guess it was like, a few days ago after, like, the episode aired or whatever. And he was just like, hey, guys, like, don't, like, beat her up and don't be mean to her and blah, blah, blah. And, like, I responded to with some hearts. And he was like, was that okay? And I was like, no, this is good. Like, this is what a real man does. Like, you're not even dating this girl anymore, and you're still trying to defend her against the evil people that are probably going to attack her on social media. Like, you're doing great.

[Vanita]

I don't think they should be attacking anyone. But, like, Shep was. Shep looked the most vulnerable this episode. She'll come and go, you know, like, she just doesn't like Shep. But this is more Shep's fault. Like, what is she doing?

[Justin]

I don't think I like you anymore. Like, I'm, you know, I'm. I brought you here. But, like, I don't think this is going anywhere. I hope you guys have a good time. But, like, after this, we're just not going to talk. Like, it's so simple.

[Vanita]

Imagine being in her shoes for anyone sitting in this room. And you, too, Vanita. It's just like, imagine kind of dating someone. You kind of like them. You're not sure. You're on the fence. Like, they seem nice. You've had some good moments. He's like, I'm going to bring a whole TV crew with me on our next date.

[Natalie]

She's a fan of the show.

[Vanita]

Fine, whatever. But either way she wants.

[Natalie]

Right? She wants to be on the show.

[Vanita]

Fine. But then maybe it was too much for her and they show up and she's getting a little cold feet. He's mean. Like, sending her text about the freckle on her lip. I'm just saying it's a little intense. Like, you're like, it's not.

[Justin]

Like, it's not. Like, we start the season and on day one, we're like, yeah, we're going to the Bahamas in three weeks. You know what I mean? Mean, like, it. This. These things take time. So, like, when the idea was brought up and she was still feeling some type of way about Shep, like, she didn't like him, just say, hey, like, maybe this isn't a good idea.

[Natalie]

And we heard several FaceTimes of her being like, when are you coming to the Bahamas? Are you going to come to the Bahamas. And he was like, yeah, I got to figure out how to get out there. Like, she was inviting them.

[Vanita]

Sure. But he doesn't really take a hint, you know, he. He does.

[Natalie]

And she is the first person to click on Bravo when Southern Charm starts airing.

[Vanita]

I mean, calling Whitney a catfish when you watch the show is wild, but I don't. You know, that's a whole nother debate.

[Justin]

Wait, say that again.

[Vanita]

Well, she. She referred to Whitney as a catfish because apparently they matched or something. And I was like, don't you watch the show?

[Justin]

Yeah, she watches it, but that's why she went for one and one said no, and then she went for the next easy, easy, available option. I'm so sorry.

[Natalie]

So did you. Did you see this, like, 27 part series she did on TikTok?

[Justin]

No, I keep refusing to look. I mean, honestly, time of day.

[Natalie]

Yeah, honestly, everyone in the comments is like seven parts for what? Like, you've said literally nothing. So it's. There's really not much there.

[Vanita]

So she won't be back next season.

[Justin]

I mean, she said more there than she did when we were filming for three months.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Anyway, God bless.

[Natalie]

Good luck to her.

[Nick]

There's a clip of you crying towards the end of the season. I don't know if it's like a final dinner. Can you tease anything that's coming up?

[Justin]

J.T. made me cry.

[Nick]

That's it.

[Vanita]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I hate him.

[Justin]

No, that was not a. That was not a happy moment for us.

[Nick]

What is your take on Craig and Paige breakup? Like, how is Craig doing? Do you think it's being handled?

[Justin]

Well, I don't even know how to answer that, to be honest. I think Craig is doing Craig.

[Vanita]

So, you know, what's that mean? Yeah, I don't know if that's a dig or support either.

[Justin]

Craig and I aren't that. Craig and I aren't that close. I can't really speak to how he's doing. You know what I mean? And, like, when I say that Craig is doing Craig, like, Craig is not really opening up and speaking about it to us as a group.

[Vanita]

Okay.

[Justin]

So we kind of get anything about the relationship from what we see online. You know what I mean? It's not like he's confiding in. At least he's not confiding in me.

[Vanita]

Sasha, do you think just from what you're seeing or just from what you know of the man because you know him better than we do? Yeah. Do you think his heart is still broken or do you think he's milking it? Both from your perspective, how do you think he's milking it?

[Justin]

I just think that, like, she's not running around doing all these, like, PR moments about it. She's just trying to, like, let the situation die. And, like, he's still doing that, and it's just like, I. We understand, like, your heart's broken, but, like, it almost seems like you're dragging this out longer than it needs to be.

[Martin Cove]

Like.

[Justin]

Like, just let it be, like, as clean of a breakup as it can be. You know what I mean?

[Natalie]

Are you referring to him going on, like, cable?

[Justin]

Well, I mean, he's your dad, and he's done. He's done a slew of other things, too. You know what I mean? But it's just like, at what point are you going to allow yourself to heal, to not continue to do these things? You know what I mean? Like, the person you want to listen to you right now, she's. She's not. You got. You're not together anymore. It's okay.

[Vanita]

Do you think he should, like, let everyone know what Paige is or isn't doing?

[Martin Cove]

Oof.

[Justin]

Yeah, I think he should, only because he is deeming her to be attacked by not. So, like, speak your truth and let it be known the same way you're speaking your truth about everything else.

[Vanita]

What if he doesn't know?

[Justin]

Then stop answering like you do.

[Natalie]

Ooh.

[Vanita]

Okay.

[Natalie]

Period.

[Nick]

Vanita, are you and Naomi on good terms?

[Justin]

Yeah, I saw her last week.

[Nick]

Is there any chance that she might come back to the show?

[Justin]

I don't know. I don't really ask her about it. You know, I just feel like if she wants to, she will.

[Vanita]

Okay?

[Justin]

And it'll be exciting, especially now that her and I are in such a good place. You know what I mean? But I. You know, I don't. I think she's passed it. I think she's passed it.

[Nick]

Tell her we miss her.

[Natalie]

Are you a fan of White Lotus?

[Justin]

I am. I did not watch last night's episode, though. I missed it.

[Natalie]

Did you hear that the creator kind of told the to watch Southern Charm in base?

[Justin]

Yeah, and Cam posted it. Cam posted it on her Instagram this morning, and I was. Was like, wait, what?

[Vanita]

Like, it was so.

[Justin]

Like, there's no way. But she made a good point. She was like. They were talking about him having, like, this North Carolina accent, but it sounds just like T rap. You know what I mean? So it's like those two things don't add up. It's like it's based off of us in South Carolina. Not North Carolina. Like, stop that.

[Natalie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Vanita]

Wild stuff. That's crazy. Vanita, thanks so much for taking the time and opening up about your relationship with JT and your thoughts just on your cast in general. Excited to see things shake out at the reunion. Reunion. Hope it goes really well for you and hope that you get the justice that you deserve.

[Natalie]

Hope.

[Vanita]

So do you need us to start any type of hashtags or, like, anti JT things going into the reunion, like, or petition perhaps?

[Nick]

T shirts, Team vanilla.

[Vanita]

We can start a revolution.

[Justin]

I like. I was like.

[Vanita]

Like, he played you. He played you.

[Justin]

Yeah, but, like, I can't somebody back.

[Vanita]

No, it'd be great. We'll. We'll come for JT's throat. And then when he says. And he was like, hey, what's this all about? From. From your interviewing. And you can be like, sorry, I can't do anything about it. Huh? We like that. Don't you?

[Justin]

I kind of. I like that. Yeah.

[Martin Cove]

Okay.

[Justin]

Okay, we can come up.

[Vanita]

All right, jt. All right, Vanita, have a great day. Best of luck at the reunion. We appreciate your time. Take care.

[Martin Cove]

Bye.

[Natalie]

Bye.

[Justin]

Thank you. Bye.

[Vanita]

Oh, what a sweetheart.

[Nick]

She's so cute.

[Mary]

Love her.

[Vanita]

She's.

[Mary]

That was awesome.

[Dylan]

I love Vanita.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Mary]

We have the same take on Paige and Craig.

[Natalie]

This obviously isn't Paige and Craig, but Sierra could have never been more relatable this episode.

[Dylan]

What part? Her trying to devour Wes at the table or her talking to Wes after?

[Natalie]

No, no, no. Her reading him to filth and then being, like, kind of want to make out with him?

[Justin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dylan]

Realistic.

[Nick]

I don't want to hug you.

[Natalie]

She's like, is this toxic of me to, like, actually want to, like, go make out right now?

[Martin Cove]

And, like.

[Natalie]

No, it's not.

[Vanita]

Read them to films. Whatever. She just called him a beta.

[Nick]

Exactly.

[Dylan]

Beta move is kind of wild.

[Mary]

Beta ass.

[Vanita]

She's calling him not a man, to be clear. Like a loser, you know, like, no.

[Natalie]

It'S definitely really mean.

[Vanita]

It's giving. It's giving. I'm not over it. And I still care. And, like, yeah, it's just mean. Yeah, she's just trying to be mean.

[Natalie]

She definitely does still care. Like, obviously she likes.

[Mary]

I think she's allowed to be mean.

[Natalie]

Some emotion.

[Vanita]

Let's give her a Brownie commercial.

[Nick]

100.

[Vanita]

100.

[Natalie]

She showed emotion in her ITM. She got upset and, like, so she clearly does still care. I think it comes from. And she, like, said this of, like, they were such good, like, good friends before. Like, it started off in such a friendship. And like, she is just like let down by, I guess.

[Vanita]

But like, she has every right to be hurt and it's, you know, it didn't work out. I really feel for that. But like, I'm, I'm, I'm of a hard time understanding how she can come for him at the reunion like she did last season. He clearly wasn't expecting it, didn't anticipate it. You know, Paige and Sierra came for his throat. He looked the way he did. It wasn't great. All of Summer House Nation was coming at him and then like. And then he's not supposed to, what, speak on it or respond or.

[Natalie]

They went and had dinner. They obviously got on good terms. No one was at that dinner but the two of them. But they both left feeling good.

[Vanita]

He didn't sound like he felt good. He did maybe as far as their relationship goes, but like, publicly he wasn't.

[Nick]

And then he went to public vacation. I'm sure talk about it more.

[Natalie]

I'm sure that if they would have had that dinner, he would have left it at that dinner then like. And would have not done a New York Times article or whatever. Like, I think, I think his.

[Vanita]

It's not like she got his permission to come at him at the reunion.

[Dylan]

Huh?

[Nick]

That's what a reunion is. It's addressing things. He said nothing. He refused to answer any of her questions or to give his feedback on anything. Exactly like he did when she brought it up at the table. Table. And then he sits there and says nothing. But then is ready to go run and tell, have a two page fucking expose on a relationship.

[Vanita]

He's not allowed to speak on it.

[Nick]

Speak to the person.

[Mary]

Yeah, speak in the time that you're spoken to instead of like, why am I.

[Nick]

Why am I owed an explanation when I don't give a fuck and I didn't ask for it. But she's not owed an explanation. He can go tell the New York Times. I know. So my opinion of Wes is different, but he doesn't give a fuck about the one person it actually matters to.

[Vanita]

We'll continue this heated debate momentarily. We have Alex from the Bachelor with us to talk about. About her recent exile from, well, not really the mansion.

[Dylan]

She was castle.

[Vanita]

She was kicked out of the castle in Scotland. All right, let's bring her on.

[Mary]

Traitor's influence knows no bounds.

[Dylan]

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[Vanita]

Ads interfering with your favorite podcasts?

[Dylan]

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[Vanita]

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[Dylan]

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[Vanita]

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[Dylan]

Up on the latest episodes.

[Vanita]

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[Alex]

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[Vanita]

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[Martin Cove]

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[Vanita]

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[Natalie]

Alex.

[Vanita]

Alex, how's it going? Good. How are you? I'm good.

[Alex]

How are you guys?

[Vanita]

I'm all right. Did you burn the first impression rose?

[Alex]

Did I burn it? Okay, I'm so. No, honestly, I'm so adhd. I feel like I lost it the first night. I was like, where the hell did.

[Natalie]

I put that rose?

[Vanita]

And then Grant found out about it and sent you home. Is that what. What happened? Yeah. Good, good joke.

[Alex]

No, everyone was like, keeping their roses and like, souvenirs, and I left with like the same suitcase I went in and that's it.

[Vanita]

I have no idea where any of the roses I ever received on the Bachelor are so.

[Justin]

Right.

[Vanita]

No, I don't. I think I attempted to save some.

[Natalie]

I bet your mom has them next to like your high school medals or something.

[Vanita]

Alex, what happened? You. You were like, you know, first impression rose. You got the first one on one. He took you mall at this local mall.

[Alex]

I know. I live in LA now. And I was like, oh, I went to Target a month ago.

[Vanita]

Here?

[Natalie]

Yeah. Like the Beverly center on all of them. We couldn't do Century City.

[Nick]

Americana.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Alex]

No, Grove Century City. So that I love that mall. Beautiful mall. Beverly center, on the other hand, is. Is okay.

[Mary]

It's certainly a mall. Yeah.

[Martin Cove]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

I thought they closed it. Yeah. Anyways, what happened in your mind, Alex? Where. Where did it go wrong?

[Alex]

Honestly, that will be a really great question at Women Tell all because I wasn't walked out. So I had no. I have no idea. I went into it thinking we had a great connection. I was like, hometown, here we come. And I don't know. I really don't know.

[Vanita]

You were shocked, you were surprised, you were caught off guard.

[Alex]

100%. 100%. And I think my reaction at the end will also tell that I was very shocked.

[Vanita]

Oh yeah, we saw it. Yeah. Yeah.

[Alex]

You can tell it's not very emotional as a person like always crying for everything.

[Vanita]

Who surprised you the most in terms of the ladies who made it to hometowns and why was it Zoe?

[Alex]

You're putting words in my mouth, I would say. And I mean, I think it's a bit of a shock for everybody, Zoe, because just because she didn't have a one on one, I don't know what their connection was, so I don't want to speak on that. But I think because she didn't have a one on one, we all kind of expected, well, it's probably going to be someone who has had one. So yeah, that's probably who. But I think looking back on screen I'm like, oh, they did have a connection and she shared a lot about herself. So.

[Vanita]

So, you know, having been familiar with that atmosphere in filming, you know, sometimes we saw Zoe make a lot of waves early on, ruffle some feathers and then became the Carolina show. And. And then like Zoe kind of almost took a back seat a little bit with the drama. I am curious from what you remember of the filming, was that like how it played out? I only asked because like sometimes if there's drama early on and then you find out like, or the producers find out or the show finds out that the like, say Grant in this case, like has a thing going with Zoe. They might, they might be like, hey Zo, like stop. I don't like, stop pissing so many people off because like, did you, did you see Zoe kind of cool things off or were we just not privy to some of the drama that she was involved in? Which, which, which is more accurate, I.

[Alex]

Want to say the first one where I think Zoe from the get go. Yeah. Ruffles some feathers for sure. But I don't think it was intentional. I don't think with any of the girls anything was intentional. I think in that setting, everything is so heightened and sometimes it's just like to take a second, be like, is this really, like guys, like, outside of the real world, Would we really act like this? No. So I think with Zoe, Joey. Yeah, she really took the back seat and I think it kind of probably felt nice for her for a little bit that she wasn't like the center of intention, attention in. In that realm, you know, and that. So, yeah, for sure. That's how it panned out.

[Vanita]

Carolina, what were your thoughts on. On her? Was she misunderstood or just a. Just really obnoxious energy sucker?

[Alex]

Nick, Nick, Nick. Again, this has been my stance from the get go. I want to say that. That things were blown out of proportion for sure. Do I think that's, you know, she may have threw someone under the bus. And we're missing a lot of context. And people, you know, see Rose as this, you know, negative who wanted to like, like up Carolina by saying that we're missing a lot of context.

[Vanita]

Can you fill in some of that context for us that we might be missing?

[Alex]

I think it'll be more. It's not my place to say because I'm not. Not, you know, Rose and I'm not Carolina. So I think at women tell all.

[Vanita]

Oh, that's the worst answer ever. Alex. That's an absolute terrible answer.

[Alex]

I know, I know, I know that's what you wanted to hear. But no, I just think that things were just blown out of proportion. I think someone wanted, you know, maybe their ego was hurt a little bit and instead of approaching it, maybe. I think two girls with Grant would have been the best decision versus one girl because then I think the other person could have defended herself. I think that's more.

[Natalie]

What if two on one?

[Alex]

The better. A two on one versus right. Because then it comes off as like, okay, we're two girls that were maybe hurt or and then we're coming to you versus, like putting one under the bus.

[Vanita]

You know, honestly though, I blame Rose, though, because had Rose on it, just peaced out in the middle of a night, she might have gotten a two on one the next week. You know, maybe.

[Alex]

Who knows? I think, I think that's not how it.

[Vanita]

I. Yeah, well, how did it go down? Alex, let us know. No, you're allowed to. You're allowed to say things that we didn't get to see.

[Alex]

I think the way it looked on tv, I think, you know, she. And again, I'm not Rose, so I don't know her like her experience, but I think it did taint her experience a little bit because she wasn't coming from a place of, of mal. Intent. And I think like they said on tv, they were comparing notes and someone got hurt and they wanted to also defend their names. And I get that. And I think after that it set back Rose with her relationship with Grant for sure and her role. Experience. Experience.

[Vanita]

Will you be looking to develop a relationship with Carolina Post show?

[Alex]

I think, you know, we all have different personalities. We both live in la, we haven't seen each other yet, and it's nothing against her or anything. I just think maybe your personalities wouldn't mesh the best. And also I'm a little bit like, you know, I'm from the get go, Rose was my, my girl. So not to be petty, but I think, you know, out of respect for.

[Natalie]

Rose in Scotland, obviously there was another kind of big blowout at the group date with Carolina, not really involving herself. And then of course Grant pulled her and it caused a, a big fight with Dina and Seraphina. And I think you kind of even got involved at the end of it. Like, do you really. A little bit.

[Alex]

I don't remember that.

[Mary]

A little bit.

[Natalie]

Do you think that, uh, the whole kind of fight was like Dina said that because Grant pulled her, she should have said like, no, like, let's cut our time short because there's so many other women here. Like, we shouldn't talk this long. Do you stand by that? She should have done that or are you like, listen, he pulled her. Have all the time that you won.

[Vanita]

It's like, like, would anyone actually give up their time?

[Alex]

That's the thing. It's like there's two perspectives. And I'm always. I hate being a Switzerland because I can hate it too if I were in her shoes. And I feel just the type of personality that I am. If I knew the girls were already kind of upset with me, I would have been like, you know what, I've had enough time. Let's, I don't want the girls to be even more upset at me. Let's, you know, let's cut it short. But in her shoes, I think she was coming from a place of they don't really necessarily vibe with me, so why would I care? And I'm here for Grant, so I think it depends what type of personality you have. And I think Carolyn has a bit more like a go getter maybe. And yeah, I think that's how it went down. But do I think it was a little bit disrespectful? Maybe. But then again, if, you know, we're all here for a reason, so if you can have more time with Grant, why not? Oh, it's tough because I know I wouldn't have done it, but I don't know what her perspective was, her point of view with, like, all the girls not being the biggest fan of her.

[Natalie]

So it's like, you don't think you would have been like, yes, Grant, let's talk for as long as possible. Like, I'm here to, like, marry you. If you think you would have been like, yes.

[Alex]

But then I also. This is a me issue. It's like, I also think, like, I care a lot about what, you know, my friends think. And then I feel like you need the girls on your side or not on your side, but you need them throughout this experience for it to. To go smoothly and, like, on your mental health. Like, if I didn't have some of my girls there, I would have left week one for sure.

[Natalie]

That's valid. So.

[Alex]

Which is, like, also very, like, I can empathize with Carolina of, you know, her experience was probably terrible. Right. Regardless of, you know, she put herself in that situation. I think she. Her experience was probably terrible. So I think you need to balance both. You need to balance, like, you know, I think our conversation was, I think, quality over quantity. Right? So if I feel like, hey, we've had a really great conversation and we've been talking for a long time, and, like, the girls need also their time as well, that's how I would approach it.

[Natalie]

Gotcha.

[Dylan]

Okay.

[Alex]

Like, you're full of.

[Vanita]

No, no, I don't think you're full of. I think I get it. You're being very safe, and, you know, you don't want to ruffle any feathers.

[Alex]

You know, see, me, I feel like I'm very, very polite.

[Vanita]

Sure, sure.

[Alex]

I was really happy for Zoe that she stole my strategy and had more time with him.

[Vanita]

I mean, why are you happy for Zoe?

[Natalie]

Come on.

[Alex]

I was upset. I was upset because I got a concussion, and I was like, all of the.

[Natalie]

That for.

[Vanita]

What did you get a concussion?

[Nick]

The bull riding. Remember? Zoe stole her. Her method of going with over the horns, or Alex would have won.

[Alex]

But I'm also very competitive, so it's like, honestly, if roles were reverse, I probably would have stole her strategy, too.

[Vanita]

So. Yeah, I think you should slash her tires. I'm kidding. Do we have any more questions for Alex before we let her Go.

[Nick]

If asked to be on the beaches of Paradise?

[Alex]

I think so. I think, you know, I watched paradise for the first time a month ago, and it's definitely more my speed. I'm more of like a. Not saying that. I'm not serious, but I'm definitely more of like a goofy, chill person. That sounds so. Pick me. I'm still goofy, but it's Mormon. Definitely. Yes.

[Nick]

I think that would be very.

[Vanita]

Have you been scouting any of the boys from previous seasons? Any. Any biceps you've been really into or, you know, six packs that you're like.

[Alex]

Why don't you see them on pictures? And you're like. And then you see their personality, and.

[Vanita]

You'Re like, we won't hold you to anything. You know, you. We still. You still can reserve the right to get the ick from any of them.

[Alex]

Like the. I was gonna say something like the piano. I'm not a big piano person.

[Martin Cove]

You have.

[Vanita]

Piano's an egg for you.

[Natalie]

When he was singing, that's what he.

[Alex]

Wanted out of me. Wanted to be spicy. The piano.

[Vanita]

Thank you.

[Natalie]

They gave me the ick.

[Vanita]

Grant gave you the ick when you play the piano?

[Natalie]

He gave me the ick as well.

[Mary]

If he had played piano in Century City.

[Alex]

Exactly. It's just. And I'm going to be very honest with that, is that everyone knows from, you know, back home in Canada that my biggest ick is someone who. When we're all having a great time and someone pulls out the goddamn guitar, and it's like, you have to listen finally. And it's like, we're having a good time.

[Vanita]

Why? I don't even care if you're good singing.

[Alex]

No, it's like, why are you.

[Vanita]

Yeah.

[Alex]

And then on top of that, it was the first time that I. Having time with Grant.

[Justin]

Right.

[Alex]

It's not like at the end of the season where you have a bit of a relationship. So, you know, and to get it, I was like, okay, you got this.

[Vanita]

Let's.

[Alex]

You know.

[Vanita]

But I think that was the. That was your kiss. Honestly, Grant knew it. You. He. You. You can't hide a nick. And he felt it, and he knew it. And you were like, she doesn't appreciate my music.

[Natalie]

Honestly. Alex, thank you for your service. Right.

[Vanita]

I. I think it's a teachable moment for Grant.

[Alex]

I know. And it would have made different at the end of the season where I know him versus, like, a stranger at this point singing to you. I was like. But I feel like the song was good. The song was good.

[Vanita]

What do you think? Of his. His, like, song song Party Girls. Yeah, Party Girls. Did you listen to that?

[Alex]

I think it's pretty good. I think if it is solid. Yeah, pretty solid. Honestly, for, like, you know, just starting out. I think it's catchy. It's catchy. I don't want to like it, but kitschy.

[Natalie]

I shake my ass in a club. Do it.

[Mary]

I have a friend for my opinion.

[Natalie]

Yeah. I feel like if.

[Martin Cove]

Yeah.

[Alex]

Chris Brown was to come out with a song like that, girls will be like, yeah. I don't know why I say Chris Brown looks like Chris Brown.

[Vanita]

As you see it now from a viewer standpoint, we're spoiler free, obviously. I know you are too. Who do you think are his two front runners?

[Nick]

I.

[Alex]

Think I'm gonna wait on that. I'm not too sure. Sure.

[Vanita]

What's your opinion?

[Alex]

Is that a terrible.

[Vanita]

It's the worst answer, Alex. The absolute worst.

[Natalie]

I think that Latia and Juliana are his final two. I think Latia wins.

[Nick]

I think Juliana wins.

[Natalie]

So what is your.

[Vanita]

I can't tell the difference between Juliana and the lawyer, Dina. Dina can't tell the difference.

[Natalie]

How?

[Vanita]

One has blonde hair, one has brown hair. They seem like the exact same person in me.

[Justin]

You literally just.

[Alex]

People were saying that about Dina and Natalie, but Juliana and Dina's person, well, they're pretty different. I feel like personality wise. I think front runners would be. I want to say Juliana and Latia as well. Just because of, you know, what I've observed and their connection. For sure.

[Martin Cove]

Y.

[Natalie]

See? I knew it.

[Vanita]

All right, Alex, well, thank you very much for your time. Good luck on the beach. Wait, did you answer the question about what guys you're into?

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

Wait, hold on. What guys?

[Alex]

Oh, what guys I'm into? So I think. I think Tanner's cute. I think Tanner's cute.

[Vanita]

The guy who's hanging out with all the Vanderpump people.

[Natalie]

Yeah. Who went on a date with Julianne Huff.

[Alex]

I don't know any of the reality stuff. I think he's cute. And a lot of people think that me and Jonathan's personality would match well. But then I'm like, would we just be too much? Maybe I need someone.

[Vanita]

I think Jonathan's very charming. He's very charming. Good looking guy, too. How, may I ask? How tall are you, Al? How tall are you, Alex? Five. You cut out.

[Alex]

I like it tall. She's five, but I. I mean, five'five.

[Vanita]

Why are you yelling at me? She keeps cutting out.

[Natalie]

She's like five.

[Martin Cove]

All right.

[Vanita]

Yeah. Medium king. Great. Five. Five. Perfect. All right.

[Natalie]

Work out.

[Vanita]

Yeah, I love that. All right, well, good luck to you and Jonathan on the beaches of paradise. Okay.

[Alex]

Thank you so much.

[Vanita]

Rooting for your love stars. All right, take care. All right. Bye, Alex.

[Martin Cove]

So much.

[Vanita]

Bye. Bye. I almost had to side with Carolina when Dina was going after. When Dina was going after her, it was just like, what she's supposed to, what, give up her time? I mean, listen, the whole pulling aside and her crying and. And.

[Martin Cove]

And.

[Vanita]

And being the damsel in distress, obviously, that was obnoxious. But, like, you're on the Bachelor.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

You, like, you want to be like, no, Grant, I don't want to talk to you. All the other girls are here. Let talk. Like, that's crazy that they want her to do that.

[Nick]

Agreed on that.

[Natalie]

And all of them being like, well, I would. It's like, no, you wouldn't.

[Vanita]

You know, I thought the most interesting thing Alex said when she was like, you really need your girls to have a good time here. Yeah, sure. But it was also Is giving, like, don't ruffle the house because they'll bully the fuck out of you.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

I mean, that's. That's my point. You know, it's just like, you know, like, yeah, you have to make friends, but like, clearly this group of friends, like, like the. And I don't even think it's any one person. It's like this. The house becomes this organic living thing where, like, the house is only caring about, like, no one winning, everyone having fairness, not ruffling feathers. And the house, like, they. The house makes the rules. Just basically go after anyone who is, like, not playing by the house's rules. And it's kind of bullshit.

[Dylan]

I think they have. They have to keep Carolina in check, though, because even, like, when Juliana was going in the house helicopter, she's like, I'm not jealous. Like, you had a private jet.

[Vanita]

Like, she just makes comments and, like, is very insufferable. Be to be clear, like, that's. She is doing the most.

[Natalie]

Yeah, but, like, the sitting at the table, eating alone, pouting. Like, it's definitely. She's definitely putting on the damsel in distress act. But I do think the fact that these women expected her to turn down a conversation or cut a conversation short when Grant did pull her.

[Dylan]

I'm with Dina.

[Natalie]

Ridiculous.

[Dylan]

I'm with Dina on this one. One.

[Natalie]

That's crazy.

[Dylan]

It's like, if you're sitting in silence with the assumption that you're gonna then prompt the conversation, that's her, like, taking him, you know, versus like, if she was genuinely just to the side, like, doing her thing. Sure.

[Nick]

Having a fun time alone.

[Natalie]

And then she just kept being like, well, how's your night? How's your. Since you're not asking us how our night. How's your night? It's like, well, y'all aren't friends with me. I don't care what your night is.

[Vanita]

Yeah. I didn't really understand that line of questioning. How's your night? So how was your night?

[Natalie]

It's like, how was your chat with Grant? So how are. And she's like, it's good as it could. Could have been. And they're like, what the. Good as it could have been. It's like, well, y'all are attacking.

[Vanita]

They were asking her as if, like, she was talking on them. And, you know, she.

[Dylan]

Not.

[Vanita]

She wasn't.

[Dylan]

She was heavily implying that I don't feel supported and welcomed here.

[Nick]

Her last two conversations were about, like, other women and situations. So for them, they're just like, so is there gonna be something else tonight?

[Dylan]

Everything about Carolina is premeditated.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

And I love her, but, like, she.

[Vanita]

Deserves all the criticism she's getting. I'm not. We're not defending Carolina. We're criticizing how the other women are handling someone who clearly is obnoxious and not, you know, but, like, they're also making her point. Carolina's point, which is like, they're justifying her being obnoxious for them being mean girl. I mean, they are like the house.

[Natalie]

They're definitely being mean girls.

[Mary]

Yeah. I think they're operating in a position where they already dislike her. So now it's like, when, you know, you don't like someone and every. And, you know, there's that one person that everyone doesn't. Doesn't like. You operate differently with them, where everything they does piss you off versus the things that actually deserve to piss you off piss you.

[Natalie]

Right. So then why wouldn't Carolina just continue to piss them off?

[Mary]

Exactly.

[Natalie]

She's not gonna become friends with them. So it's like, why would I respect you now? You don't respect me.

[Dylan]

Even Dina, like, your best friend in the process now she's like, girl, you're doing too much.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

So that's when, you know, like, it's not us issue. It's a U issue.

[Vanita]

She's definitely doing too much. It was just more. That's an insane ask to be like, yeah, you should. You're not.

[Mary]

For an attorney. It was a weird argument.

[Vanita]

Basically, they were saying, prove your loyalty to us. The group and turn down your conversation with Grant and then we can talk.

[Dylan]

I thought it was like, be respectful to your best friends. The girls that haven't had a best friend.

[Vanita]

That's how they sold it.

[Mary]

Co workers.

[Dylan]

True.

[Natalie]

Those girls are not best friends.

[Dylan]

Dina was her best friend in the process.

[Natalie]

Not really okay at all. Yeah, she stuck up for her one time and was like, I see my younger self in you or whatever. Like, definitely.

[Dylan]

But also for Carolina to sit there and like on the log and not say, like, anything. I'm like, girl, you're like wasting all the time. And then not even, like, saying anything. Like, you're being even more dramatic.

[Nick]

And to Zoe's point, the only person who should be throwing a little temper tantrum is the one person who didn't get a one on one this entire time. Like, I for sure thought she was gonna go home.

[Natalie]

I will say it was pretty fud up of Grant to give Carolina so much security sitting on that rock, being like, I'm locked. She like, gave so many times where she's like, I don't think it's me. I don't think it's me. I think I should go home. And he's like, listen, I'm locked in.

[Vanita]

Are you locked in?

[Natalie]

Then sends her home the next night. Huh. That's crazy.

[Nick]

But it's giving Parisa like, here, I thought about you.

[Natalie]

I got you way, way more to.

[Nick]

A higher for sure. But I'm just saying that I'm like, the bait and switch is crazy. Like, okay, like, you're secure, you're special, and then you're going home to.

[Natalie]

It would have been so much more respectful if in that moment where she's like, I don't think it's me. I think I should go home. Where he would have been like, listen, like, I agree. Maybe there has been, you know, and. And she could have been like, okay, I'm gonna go. But instead, he's like, convinced, convinces her to stay just to send her home himself.

[Vanita]

I think in Grant's defense, I think the people running this show are very. They're in charge.

[Nick]

Yeah, that's just like, I feel like the producers or whomever is in charge of everything. I'm like, you would never have gotten that. Like, I guess I'm the villain. Guess I'm crazy. Like, the whole like, after, like, you already know somebody's spiraling. I'm like, you know that the drama is going to ensue. At this after party, when Carolina and.

[Vanita]

Grant were having a conversation, I. He said something I wish I wish I had the tape. I think she was, like, begging him to send her home, and he was like, there's, like, a time and a place for that. And it told me that Grant was, like. Didn't feel like he had the green light to send her home in that moment. Like, it seemed like Grant was like, oh, you know, we'll see at the rose ceremony kind of thing. And I think, you know, for different leads in different seasons, there's been a different environment and a different collaboration. You know, like when. Way back when, when I was a Bachelor, it felt like it was like we were making a show together. You know, they were like, you know, it was kind of a negotiation, like, help me find love, so to speak, and I'll help you make a great TV show. And it doesn't seem like there's a. You know, it's like, you're our bachelor. Here are the rules. Do this, do this. We'll make sure you find love at the end. But, like, you know, that's the vibe that they're giving.

[Natalie]

Do you think the franchise is tanking?

[Vanita]

Do I think the franchise is tanking? I mean, like, it's obviously going through a bit of a shift. I mean, there's a lot. You know, what was that? Was a Deadline wrote that report.

[Mary]

Yeah, it was a Deadline exclusive.

[Vanita]

You know, the report that's out there right now, it's. It's a lot of former employees basically airing grievances about the people in charge now. Like, I know the people in charge. I know the people who left the show. I mean, the reality is, is, like, you know, what I've heard it described to me as, like, Game of Thrones. It's like, after Mike Fleiss was, like, kind of what left the franchise, there are a lot of people who felt passed over, and they're the people in charge now. I think there's some hurtful feelings with some of the people who got passed over.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

And, yeah, it's. It's a very. It's very. It's a lot of politics. And then they're. You know, one of the people in charge came from Bachelor Canada, and other people have a feeling, a certain feeling about that. But I think in the past, like, when I was on the show, the sense I got from the producers is that it was more collaborative, that there would be a lot of different meetings, a lot of different inputs. You know, the. The rumor is it's less collaborative now. Who knows Knows. But in fairness to the people in charge now, you know, obviously, a lot of the people speaking are the people who are no longer at that company. And, you know, business is business. Like.

[Natalie]

But isn't this stemming from like, gin Trans season and kind of the whole, like, AFR of it all where they forced her to watch that and she was like, do I have an option?

[Vanita]

Well, that was one example. Well, the article kind of led telling that story. If you guys don't remember Gen Trans afr where they made her watch, you know, the breakup or the engagement video with what's his name and yeah, I mean, to like, they claim that Jen knew what. What does Jen said about it?

[Natalie]

Is she even off? Can she speak on it or is she still under contract?

[Vanita]

I don't know what she. What are they?

[Mary]

Jen asked. Jen asked Jesse Palmer. Do I have a choice?

[Dylan]

Well, that was during afr.

[Vanita]

She could be. That could have been a performative comment. Yeah, you know, I think they probably gave her the heads up, but they might not have. I mean, they've definitely, definitely. It's reality tv. Like, their justification when it comes to blindsiding contestants and even blindsiding their lead, Their argument is, you're. None of you are actors. We're not here to see you act and perform. Surprise. We're here to see your authentic reactions to these situations you signed up for.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah.

[Vanita]

You know, and so there's a lot of times where they. They did blindside people at their, you know, and producers have been getting criticisms since the beginning of the show. So other kind of numb to it or immune to it. So 50, 50, whether they told her or not. But it does sound like with that story, there was a lot of people who, like a lot of other producers who thought this was a terrible idea. They were dismissed. They were ignored, allegedly by the people in charge.

[Natalie]

Do you still have, like, respect for the franchise or are you kind of.

[Vanita]

Respect? What do you mean?

[Natalie]

Well, we seem to kind of just like, defend them a lot. And I know obviously it's like you, you knew a lot of the people who were there. You're close to a lot of the people who were there.

[Vanita]

I mean, I guess I always see both sides. I have more friends who don't work there anymore than I have friends who work there. And I, you know, I'm aware of a lot of the frustrations. You know, like, they say business is business. So, like, I can see why they're no longer friends with the people still there. You know, I wouldn't be total, so to speak, on their other side. I don't know. Like, I wasn't there when. When the decisions were made or who got promoted, who didn't get promoted. But, like, yeah, some. Someone won, you know, do you think.

[Nick]

That they're, like, trying to revamp everything with causing Bachelorette and then Bachelor in Paradise was on pause last summer, and now we're finally getting it back, and it feels like the schedule of this season of Bachelor is moving a lot faster. So also, correct me if I'm wrong, like, do we think that they're trying to speed up the process in six episodes that we're already.

[Vanita]

That's another thing too. Yeah. Because it was always like, we're at hometowns already. And literally when I was watching it last night, I was like, counting it in my head, thinking, all right, like, I remember filming. It's just like, well, what week? What. What week of filming was that when we were. They're cutting a week short. I'm pretty sure. Like, any season. We were in Marseille, France week five. We were in Italy week six, and then we were in Brussels week seven. That was the week before Hometown. So this is week six. So they skipped a whole week of dating.

[Nick]

And, like, didn't you, like, didn't they used to have episodes where, like, whether it's two on ones or like, there might be like, a week where nobody goes home or something like that?

[Vanita]

Always someone goes home. There's definitely two on one. Some, you know, they' getting to hometowns a week faster than they normally did pre Covid. Yeah, I haven't, like, kept that close of track on it. But listen, budget cuts are all over Hollywood. They've drastically cut the budget of the Bachelor, even though it's relatively cheap to make compared to other shows. And so, like, I think it's just a product of budget cuts, really. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. Like, Joey season was wildly popular, and they kind of shit the bed after that. You know, there was the whole, like, Maria casting drama. Like, you know, clearly Jen wasn't someone they had planned for. That was pretty obvious. Obvious, you know, whether it was like, because, you know, who else was being considered of the Maria? Daisy. So, like, Daisy couldn't because of her health. She was a fan favorite. Maria was a fan favorite. Something happened with that. So then they, like, kind of had to pick Jen and they sold it as like, oh, your first Asian Bachelorette. But, like, clearly I don't think the show deserved any credit for that because it was like, Jen was not even in, like, their a top choice for them. So they threw Jen almost to the wolves having, like, not really casted for. For her, you know. No. With Grant, they announced his being the Bachelor sooner. They did the same thing with Rachel Lindsay with an earnest attempt to try to cast people like, authentic connection. Yeah. Where they might be an authentic connection with Grant and the. Some of the women, just the way they're looking with Rachel and with. With Jen, there was. They're like, all right, Jen's your Bachelorette. We're filming next week. Yeah. You know, and so coming off the.

[Natalie]

Hypothesis, I remember it was a lot of the men, like, kind of coming out and being like, I was.

[Vanita]

I was here for Maria.

[Natalie]

Maria. I was here for Daisy. Like, we thought it was going to be someone else.

[Vanita]

So it just really put Jen in an unfortunate position. Her show didn't perform that well. Like, and not surprisingly, because there was no hype or no momentum. There's no. Like, they didn't really promote her season. Right. And then Grant. Kind of the same thing. You know, they seem to not really be investing in these for whatever reason. I don't know why that's an abc. You know, ABC is the one who markets the show. Warner Brothers, the one who produces the show. For years, there's always been conflict in terms of who gets to do what. There's, like, internal conflict between ABC and Warner Brothers, and then there's already internal conflict between, like, Warner Brothers and the people making the show. It does seem to be a huge mess right now.

[Nick]

Do you think that seeing the success of Golden Bachelor kind of is making them look at the normal Bachelor different? Because it's like Golden Bachelor, so, like, wholesome and it's new and it's a different concept. Whereas, like, Bachelor kind of has been running the same concept. Concept.

[Dylan]

It's the influencers on the Bachelor versus.

[Nick]

The people on people genuinely looking for love and a connection on Golden.

[Vanita]

I think they only care about the ratings.

[Nick]

Okay. Yeah.

[Vanita]

I don't think it's his business. Right. And I think the ratings of golden have been very. Have done very well. That being said, I don't know what if it, like, has the demo. Like, overall ratings aren't as important as the demo ratings. Demo ratings are, like, ages between, like, 18 and 45 or something like that, you know? So I don't know how. How the golden franchise performs in that demo over, like, say, their Bachelor isn't a number one performing show. It always has been. And then, you know, Bachelorette.

[Martin Cove]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

It's not a good sign. But again, I think it speaks to, like, a lot of the internal turmoil going on there. A lack of, like, unity. I think there's a lot of budget cuts. I think there's that too. So, you know, who knows? But I wish that wasn't going on because clearly it seems to be affecting the quality of the show. The show has. Hasn't been. It hasn't been as good as it used to be. I mean, I'm enjoying this season, but, like, it's just. It's shorter. There's like, not a lot of compelling story lines, you know, like. I don't know, just.

[Natalie]

It doesn't seem as genuine. It's very. Seems like it screen. It seems scripted, you know, it seemed. Because people. So many people know, like, what works and what doesn't work, that it's like, it seems so scripted that they do the same thing.

[Vanita]

Every criticism I've heard from people who used to work there is that the people running it now are very, by the. There's. There's not a lot of creativity. It's very. Not scripted, but very staged, very structured, very planned out, very inauthentic, very like they, you know, the producers, basically the people they talked about in this deadline story, though, the two in charge, they're making all the decisions, they're planning the show beat by beat, and they're leaving very little for authentic moments and authentic reactions, actions. That's the feedback I've heard from people who have since left the show. Whether that is, you know, disgruntled employees or true, you know, remains missing. But because there is a lot of people who have left on bad terms.

[Natalie]

From that franchise, I do think more and more is just going to continue to come out as like, I do think, and I hope that Jin Tran is able to speak about that AFR at some point in her life.

[Vanita]

Has she not spoken. Spoken about it?

[Natalie]

I don't believe she has.

[Dylan]

Last time we talked to her was right after afr, when she was just like, I tried to call Devin right before that happened to, like, kind of see what we were going to talk about. He had the moment to, like, address stuff with me and then didn't even add afr.

[Natalie]

Like. But I think she obviously, I mean, she's under a contract. I think, like, once that contract's over, maybe she'll feel more comfortable to be like, listen, like, they threw me to the wolves and they sent me out there. And on live television, they were like, hey, watch this back. Knowing that the person beside me was like, not the person in that engagement video. And I didn't want to do it. I told, you know, like, I'm Curious to hear her side.

[Vanita]

I'll tell you this much. If they did tell her, they 100 came to her and sold her on the idea of why it would be great for her, regardless of whether it was great for her or not.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

And then after they did whatever deed they do, they will follow up with the lead. They'll check in on their mental health. They'll make sure they're okay. They'll tell them it went great. They'll cover their asses. They'll tell them it went great, and then they'll be like, you can't tell anyone. We told you to say that.

[Dylan]

Yeah, yeah, she did tell us. It was a whole lot to process, and that's why she was like Dancing with the Stars as my way of, like, I'm busy.

[Vanita]

Yeah, Dancing with the Stars might have been also her, like, hey, listen, go do this and be happy.

[Dylan]

Yeah, she is happy with a partner now. So.

[Martin Cove]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

From Dancing with the Stars.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

You are no dummy, but you're kind of acting like one. You used to crush it in school, outsmarting opponents on the field, and now, well, you're still smart, but not exactly challenging yourself. You could be advancing nuclear engineering in the world's most powerful Navy. You were born for it. So make the smart choice. You can be smart, or you can be nuke smart. Become a nuclear [e-mail] nukesmart America's Navy.

[Martin Cove]

Forged by the sea.

[Natalie]

Should we get to some Love is Blind?

[Vanita]

We should.

[Mary]

It's interesting. I'm so much more invested in Love is Blind than the Bachelor of, like, people being real.

[Vanita]

There's more real conversation. I mean, to that point is like the Bachelor has lost of his authenticity. It's. Well, let's just get into it.

[Natalie]

Dave is the worst. Dave is the worst. Yeah, Dave.

[Mary]

Nasty stinkies.

[Vanita]

Can we just go over the story.

[Dylan]

Dave heard from one of his friends? And Lauren keeps asking, let me talk to them. Who are these people? And he won't say. So Dave heard that, Lauren.

[Vanita]

So already we're suspecting if these friends aren't real?

[Dylan]

No, I think they're probably real, but I think he's purposely not letting Lauren talk to them.

[Mary]

Yeah, he was like, they're going to come over and his sister.

[Vanita]

So Dave's sister?

[Nick]

Yeah, Dave's sister.

[Alex]

Who he won't shut up about.

[Natalie]

Yes.

[Dylan]

For context, if you remember, when they were in the pods, he had asked Lauren, like, oh, when was the last time you were in a relationship? And it was like six months. Like, within the six months, or like, soon before she got on the show. He then starts this rumor on camera when they're together in person after saying, well, I heard you were, like, in a serious relationship with this guy and then broke it off with him to come on the show.

[Mary]

And I knew this guy. Or, like, knew of this guy.

[Dylan]

She told him in the pods. She told him in the pod.

[Mary]

She said she had an unserious relationship recently before coming into the P.O.

[Dylan]

And also, none of this is right before the pod. So that's the part where he's pitching it as if it's like, it happened two days. Yeah.

[Natalie]

He literally said, you were with him the night before you left. And she goes, no, I wasn't. And he was like, well, that's what my friends say. And she's like, I wasn't. And her. Her girlfriends are like, she was with us. And he's like, I just don't know what to believe. That's crazy.

[Vanita]

Like, I. I think it's crazy and insane that these people all agree to do this thing to begin with. Sure. Go on. Love is blind. I just think if you found out someone was, like, hooking up with someone on a regular basis, like, and. And you found out from friends.

[Martin Cove]

Friends.

[Vanita]

That other rumors and, like, I don't think that makes him a bad guy for, like, not knowing who to trust.

[Nick]

No one's saying he's a bad guy. But I'm like, you can't pretend to be precious about this. When you got signed up for a show where you're engaged to someone you've never met in 30 days, like. But you're precious about the idea that she's been involved with somebody in a small town.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Like, you're literally signing up to get married in 30 days to someone you've never met before. Of course shit's gonna come out in 30 days.

[Natalie]

And she looks at him, and she goes after. She's like, I'd love to talk to your friends about this. Like, I'd love to get on the same page. I'd love to. And he's like, yeah. And defend myself know, like, maybe. And then he's like, maybe we shouldn't. And then she's like, well, can you please, like, stay here tonight? I feel really disconnected from you. And he's like, no, I'm gonna go. Like, he doesn't give a fuck about her. He obviously, clearly is texting his friends, being like, dude, like, just, like, say anything so I can get out of this relationship.

[Mary]

Yeah, he's using this.

[Natalie]

He's not into it. He's trying to get out of the relationship, and he's doing it by humiliating her on national television.

[Vanita]

If you started dating someone who was actively on a regular basis sleeping with.

[Nick]

Someone, and don't go on a reality TV show to get married in 30.

[Vanita]

Days saying you're allowed to have some questions.

[Natalie]

He can have questions for sure.

[Nick]

He's not even listening to her.

[Dylan]

He has to listen to the answers.

[Vanita]

He's like, but he doesn't believe her.

[Natalie]

Why wouldn't he believe her? I don't know.

[Vanita]

Reason not to, maybe. He.

[Natalie]

He's her fiance.

[Vanita]

They met two weeks ago.

[Natalie]

Exactly.

[Nick]

So exactly.

[Natalie]

You wouldn't believe your fiance, who was the only person in the relationship that you're talking about. You're going to believe your friends who are like, four steps away from that relationship.

[Vanita]

I mean, I don't know who his friends are or how they know exactly.

[Nick]

What they were part of the relationship.

[Vanita]

I don't know who these friends are.

[Nick]

Wouldn't you want her to go face to face with those people being like, what do you know about me that I don't know about myself? And allow me to defend myself? And instead he goes, I'm going to keep you separate because I don't see it.

[Vanita]

I don't like how he's handling that.

[Nick]

That's what I'm saying.

[Vanita]

I'm only speaking on the fact that, like, finding out that someone in this situation had a buddy for two months right before. How unserious was it? You know, like, how. And I know she said it was unseri serious, but, like, I'm just saying, like, what else sex is like, it's not a nothing thing.

[Natalie]

Nick, you know what else. What do you mean to men? It is absolutely nothing. Men can go around slinging dick and not give a flying.

[Vanita]

Some of them.

[Natalie]

So, like, some of them.

[Vanita]

It's not her.

[Natalie]

It was just sex. She clearly. She said that she's, like, black and white. She's like, listen, it was just sex. Imagine if, like, me and you in the beginning, where we start dating, and then, like, your friends are like, yeah, dude. Like, she. I'm friends with, like, some guy that she, like, used to hook up with. And, like, she was hooking up with him, like, right before y'all started dating, and you were like, hey, I have a question about this. And I answered it. And then you're like, I just don't believe you. Like, that's crazy.

[Nick]

My friend said. And it's like, were they in the room?

[Vanita]

I probably definitely wouldn't say. I Just don't believe you.

[Natalie]

That's pretty much what I'm saying.

[Vanita]

I might. If. If you were telling me something different than, like, people I trusted who was like, yeah, so I found this shit out about you, it would probably affect me. It would probably rattle me. And if. If I had a decision about whether we had to get married two weeks from that, my judgment. Judgment might be clouded.

[Natalie]

I just think it's insane that he thinks he's in a position to judge her for being a single woman.

[Vanita]

Why is he. Is he definitely judging? Because he is.

[Nick]

Because he's trying to act like, in today's day and age that she's doing something that she might have the other way around.

[Vanita]

I just feel like y'all would be not the same. Yes.

[Natalie]

Before you go on this show, you're single. You can do whatever the hell you want. It's like people on Bachelor, like, before you. Before you start filming, you are single. You can do whatever. Whatever you want. Like, you can fuck around with 20 people. You can fuck around with none. But, like, she's single. And the fact that he's being like, you shouldn't have been having sex with someone before you came here is crazy.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

Also, let's read between the lines. Like, whoever this person is that she was involved with is low key, a clout chaser. Like, the friends were like, he came after me. He came after her. Like, and then he finally got Lauren. And then it's like, I don't know if you've seen. Now he's posting, like, mock photos of him as if he was casted on Love Is Blind and, like, releasing, like, text messages with producers to bring him on to confront psychotic. Yeah.

[Natalie]

And it's clear that he will say anything to just, like, rattle someone's cage. It's clear he doesn't want Lauren and this guy to get married. It's clear he doesn't want success for Lauren. So he's like, oh, yeah, dude. Like, yeah, we were like. Like the night before she left, dude.

[Vanita]

And like, she was like, is he saying that?

[Natalie]

Yeah. To his friends, allegedly. But we haven't talked to him.

[Vanita]

We haven't talked to the. So if this loser guy, Buddy guy is out there saying these. So he's making up rumors, allegedly. And he's telling these friends of Dave's who, like, fine, they don't know who this guy is. They're just like, yeah, this guy is out there saying, he. They did this. I'm just saying Dave's immediately, like, just supposed to, like, blindly believe her. No matter what. I'm not saying he's handling it well at all. And I don't like that he abandoned her that night. But the fact that he is supposed to just like dismiss it it outright and pretend he doesn't have questions or pretend he doesn't care, you know, like I just think is unrealistic in this setting.

[Natalie]

I think if it was a, if Lauren was like, listen, yeah, I was in like a full on relationship. We'd been dating for six months and I like actually broke up with him to come on the show issue, big red flag issue there. She's like, yeah, I was like having sex with someone. Like, yeah, but it's that I just.

[Vanita]

Feel like, you know. Yeah, I understand it's 2025 and I understand hookup culture is like a farm. It's more acceptable, it's more prevalent. But like sex is not an, a meaningless thing to a lot, to a lot of people. If you were just like having regular sex with someone leading up to the show regardless of your who you are, but you can't. The other person has a right.

[Natalie]

Sex means to her.

[Vanita]

I don't know what sex means to her, but it might mean something to Dave. I'm just saying like, and I know he's a man, he's the one who.

[Natalie]

Wanted to her the first night in the, in the vacations. It doesn't mean that is true.

[Dylan]

That is true.

[Natalie]

Asking everyone, are you?

[Vanita]

Are you?

[Natalie]

Because we're not. Because we're not.

[Vanita]

I'm just saying sex isn't meaningless.

[Nick]

But he's going around asking every other.

[Natalie]

Couple of is it?

[Nick]

Are you guys having sex? Because I'm not. Like I just want to know if you are. Because I can kind of gauge where I'm at. So I'm like, sure. No, it's not precious. He's only precious about it because it affects him or it's his way of getting out of things.

[Justin]

It's.

[Nick]

He's not being honest. If he was actually taking accountability or being like, I want to figure out where this is. You would have her sitting down with the friends that are talking and we would conflict resolve this. But instead what if his friends want.

[Vanita]

To be on the show?

[Nick]

His friends do. He was literally like, I'm going to text them to not come because I don't want them to sit face to face with you. Why would that be?

[Natalie]

They were going to have a full on dinner with him.

[Vanita]

I just think.

[Nick]

And he pulled the plug.

[Vanita]

I'm just like the idea that like fucking is meaningless and Sex is meaningless. But now you're crazy to me.

[Nick]

A macro thing where we're talking about two people, like, as to how you.

[Vanita]

Guys are just like, oh, it's. It's fucking. It's nothing. They weren't serious people.

[Natalie]

It's nothing. We have three people in this scenario. We have Lauren, we have this guy that she was fucking, and we have Dave. And to all three of them, clearly, sex is. Is meaningless. Dave wanted to fuck the first night he met her, so clearly it was, like, meaningless to all three of them.

[Dylan]

Not to keep it going. But you're definitely right that Dave is intimidated or insecure about Lauren in that relationship. But I just. I don't think that's her fault necessarily. But he.

[Vanita]

I don't think it's her fault. And I think he's definitely handling it poorly. Yeah. I just think he is allowed to feel a certain way about the fact that. That she was in a physical relationship shortly prior to coming on the show. And I don't think that makes him a bad guy.

[Natalie]

I think if she asked him, when was the last time that you shared any moment with any other woman?

[Vanita]

Moment?

[Natalie]

It would be probably the day before I left for the show. I don't think it would be months or years prior to him going. I don't think his life stopped when he got the opportunity to maybe potentially go on Love is Wine.

[Vanita]

I don't know. But when I. When. When people ask my advice before going on these shows, I'm. One of the things I say the most to them is be very careful about, like, your dating life and leading up to going on these shows, because that.

[Martin Cove]

It.

[Vanita]

It will come up. And, like, if a show is about getting married or engaged, like, your intentions about, like, taking this experience seriously will be questioned. It's like, it always has been.

[Natalie]

I don't think Lauren has shown us any inkling that she hasn't taken. Taken this seriously.

[Mary]

I don't think that they're gonna make it.

[Vanita]

I don't think they're gonna make it either.

[Dylan]

Daniel wasn't following or Taylor. Yeah, Taylor checked the Unfollowers app.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I mean, a lot of drama.

[Vanita]

What did that all come? A lot of drama that went nowhere.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

I feel like that's gonna come full circle, though.

[Mary]

I think she freaked out and had, like, a panic now.

[Vanita]

Are you referring to the time where, like, season, like, episode five started and she's, like, half looking and then, like, she's like, I don't know. I have so many followers. And then she just kind of stopped.

[Mary]

No, she said, oh my God, so many people have come Follow.

[Natalie]

That app tells me more than I need to know.

[Dylan]

Literally it does. But also, I'm reading into the teaser a lot, but there's like a clip of a blonde woman. It could be anybody, but I'm assuming it's Taylor in the wedding dress crying, walking back to the car after walking into the room. And that to me is giving. Maybe she found out that he actually.

[Natalie]

Was there or they just were like, yeah, this. He just was like, yeah, or that too.

[Dylan]

Or he was too short.

[Vanita]

Like, hey, well, to Europe. I wonder. I wonder if.

[Dylan]

Well, there's no other blonde right now. So that's why I'm like, Sarah, if.

[Vanita]

They'Re not together, if Daniel and Taylor aren't getting together at the reunion, it'll be interesting. If she's like, actually I went back and he was following me.

[Natalie]

Like, now I've had more time to look. And I was able.

[Dylan]

One of the mutuals saw him and was like, that's the man.

[Nick]

It was actually Tik Tok.

[Natalie]

Does he not look kind of like Jojo Siwa?

[Dylan]

He does.

[Mary]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he does. Yeah.

[Nick]

No, I can't unsee like all like, he does.

[Natalie]

Everyone's putting all these men in the same thing and they're being like, this is the exact same man. Like, it's Amazon Prime. It's like, yeah, it's.

[Mary]

It's two day delivery.

[Natalie]

Teu.

[Vanita]

It's like, yeah, there's no facial hair.

[Dylan]

Virginia wanted a prenup. That was one of the other things.

[Mary]

Good for.

[Justin]

Good for her.

[Mary]

You're on Love is Blind.

[Vanita]

Get.

[Mary]

Get the prenup on Love is Blind.

[Nick]

You met him two weeks ago, but.

[Vanita]

They should all sign prenups 100%.

[Dylan]

His family, though, was kind of like questioning it.

[Natalie]

It's weird to have an issue with that when you literally have just met them. Right? We don't know anything about, hey, babe.

[Vanita]

It's also giving that work out. It's also giving.

[Mary]

At this point, she. She has more money than him.

[Nick]

Well, yeah, yeah. She's got a nicer place. She's got.

[Vanita]

She wants to be a millionaire or, or doesn't understand. Like, like, maybe, maybe, maybe she's giving Tom Schwartz, who like wanted a prenup and for his $200 and he had $200 to his name and he just like.

[Nick]

I think she walked into his apartment, saw a studio with 500 pairs of $700 shoes and was like, we're not giving financially responsible.

[Vanita]

The way they talk about her age on this show, it's crazy. She's 33 years old. Absolute stunning of a human being.

[Nick]

Right.

[Vanita]

And they talk about her as if.

[Nick]

She is signing up for 74 years old tomorrow.

[Vanita]

Like, it's. How old is he, 23 years younger?

[Nick]

28?

[Vanita]

29? That's crazy. Why did they just talk? Why are they making this age gap thing such a storyline?

[Dylan]

That's true.

[Mary]

There is no age gap.

[Vanita]

He looks 10 years older than me.

[Mary]

She looks 45.

[Dylan]

Because when they talk about the high school, she's like, we weren't in the same class. We wouldn't have been there the same time. And it's like, three years is not that big of a difference.

[Natalie]

Yeah, like, babe, you're a senior.

[Vanita]

Is she making it more of a.

[Dylan]

Big deal or is she's joked about how people see her as, like, a young person. She's like, well, I'm actually a successful doctor. But then they're also using that storyline as a way to.

[Vanita]

Like, she's also only 33.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Well, I can tell you a big issue that I have that I just can't get over. Monica's story about how she leaves piles of clothes just stashed in her closet to put it on with a spider.

[Vanita]

This was giving Nick and Natalie share a cup.

[Mary]

The sock. The communal sock.

[Natalie]

I'm sorry. I'm gonna be so honest with y'all. I really do skip through Monica and Joey because I just can't.

[Nick]

Well, she said that she likes to leave her clothes in a pile. And, like, she doesn't fold it, but they're clean. And that she said one time she put on a pair of jeans and saw this, like, white stuff in her crotch. So it's like, yeah, you know what you're thinking? It is. And then she goes and then saw something crawl out of it. And it comes out that it was like a wolf spider who built a nest in the crotch of her pants.

[Natalie]

She said this on tv.

[Nick]

She said this on national television because.

[Dylan]

She would wash her clothes and just throw it on the floor and then pick her clothes from the floor.

[Natalie]

Ew.

[Dylan]

Yeah, well, Joey was like, we can't do this. We have to. You know, he's like, we're gonna fix this.

[Vanita]

She's filthy.

[Nick]

And Joey, who you're not expecting, likes to, like, fold his clothes. He likes to put everything away.

[Natalie]

I didn't see the way he folds T shirts. And that was. Yeah, it's like, you're putting too much effort into it.

[Mary]

He also said he's like, gotten over OCD in the past.

[Natalie]

So I don't think he's gotten over it whatsoever. The way he was folding those T shirts was very much.

[Vanita]

Oh. When she was like, you don't like the. That fold. And he's like, I did not like that fold.

[Natalie]

And he said, I did also see the part where he was very much. She was like, they're worried that, like, you're not good enough for me. And he was like, do they think anyone is ever going to be good enough for you? And she was like, no.

[Vanita]

Her sister.

[Nick]

Her sister. Like, that was awful.

[Mary]

Is real projection.

[Vanita]

Oh. And she was like, I'm supposed to get married. Yes. When she was like, I'm supposed. But I guess it could. I guess it should be you like the, the sabotaging your sister's relationship because you're not in a relationship and going to. To get married. That sends some distinct.

[Mary]

Well, also, isn't the sister's boyfriend Monica's ex? Monica's ex boyfriend? Well, or like, they didn't date. They went on like two dates or something and then she. And then they weren't into each other. And then she ended up with.

[Nick]

I missed that. Which is like me, like douche pimples. I'm like, there's got to be more people in your life than to be dating somebody that your sister dated.

[Vanita]

Well, the problem I really had with it, it's like, whatever. Don't, like your sister's boyfriend or whatever. Have a problem with the show. Fine. But she, she was basically accusing Joey of being manipulative. And she was like, he's, he clearly says things because he, you know, he's saying the right things. She accused him of lying and being an actor and being distant, disingenuous. Like, that's, that's a pretty strong accusation.

[Nick]

Especially for like, what, 30 minutes of meeting someone.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

Like.

[Nick]

And he's just. But being kind to your family solely.

[Vanita]

Based off the fact that, like, you're not about to get married.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

And your, your younger sister is.

[Nick]

No. And she was like, you. He's not your type. Your type's a 6 foot 5 Italian model. And even she is that. Not everybody's.

[Vanita]

And she's like. And then she's like, well, I don't know if I'm going to be able to get that. And her sister's like, well, I think you should hold out. First of all, six, five. Specifically, first of all, take out any type of ethnicity or like, you know, preferences around that or occupation. But six, five. Yeah. How many. What's the percentage of men that are six five.

[Nick]

It says less than 1%.

[Vanita]

Less than 1%. Now what were her other qualifications?

[Mary]

Italian.

[Vanita]

One of them. How many now? Just Italian. Percentage of Italian men over 65 compared. No, listen, it's.

[Natalie]

It's going to be nothing.

[Vanita]

Less than 1%, less than a half a percent.

[Nick]

The average Italian male height is around 5 9. And it is very uncommon to find men exceeding 65 in Italy.

[Vanita]

So already a rarity in general for the entire nation.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

But her sister is like earnestly telling her sister to like forego this guy who seems to be like pretty nice and have a really good chemistry with her. Seems to be really, really a real gentleman.

[Nick]

Even Andrea Denver from Summer House Italian model six two. So even then the one Italian model I know off the top of my head does not hit 6 5.

[Natalie]

What did y'all think of the Sarah and Ben? Like there's some girl who posted a TikTok crying and she like apparently was with you and he's.

[Dylan]

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a DM here or there.

[Nick]

Yeah, I was.

[Mary]

A little Reaction was weird.

[Nick]

Yeah, it was the reaction to more so like where it was kind of like cagey, like.

[Vanita]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I don't know why she posted it but I've seen it so I don't need to watch it again.

[Natalie]

Saw it. Some girl that apparently used to be in involvement with Ben, she posted a tick tock. I guess whenever they announced that the Minneapolis is filming.

[Vanita]

I feel like I heard about this way back in the day when it.

[Natalie]

Happened probably I brought it up crying and being like these men, blah blah blah blah. I don't know exactly what she said. She didn't show the video.

[Dylan]

Well, his side of the story. Ben said they met on Tinder, never hooked up in quotes. I just honestly don't remember. It was four years ago and it was a short amount of time. She's claiming that they were like full on in a relationship hooking up and then he just ghosted her.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

And that there were like a lot of dms. And that's where he's like, well there might be a DM or two. Like I don't know.

[Mary]

But she always DMed me is what he said.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

What does that even mean exactly?

[Natalie]

I don't know. As Sarah said, like, there's definitely gonna be more that comes out. And she was like, you better tell me everything right now because if more comes out, like I will not trust you.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And it looked like he had the fear of God in His eyes. And he was like.

[Vanita]

But it's a little tough if you. Even if. Let's say you believe his story, his story of being four years ago. If someone says, listen, if anything comes out, no matter what, I will never believe you. And he's just this. This is a person who based off his story is already coming out saying, I could see why he still has a look of like, yeah, I mean, I don't think anything's gonna come out, but like, fuck.

[Natalie]

You know, like, yeah, on Ben's behalf. Like, it was four years ago. Like, I don't remember stuff that has happened four years ago. Like, especially if to him it was like such a blip of a relationship. Clearly to her it was more if she's saying that they were full on dating or whatever. I do think it's weird that he was already aware of this TikTok video and didn't bring it up to Sarah. Like, she had to find it on her own and that he. Yeah, he went on a blocking spree and like, did not bring it up to his fiance when like, hey, so there's a T out there. Like this girl I was with four years ago.

[Martin Cove]

It's a little.

[Vanita]

It's a little weird, but I, I can at least empathize with why he was unsure about the time. Like, doesn't have his phone on him. I don't know. These people are so like, out.

[Natalie]

They had.

[Vanita]

Yeah, but they're his phone enough to.

[Natalie]

Go and block her.

[Vanita]

No, I get it. I mean, but I'm saying they're in this, like, science experiment. I just think you guys don't really appreciate just the mind that it is to be in this social experiment they're in. So to. To criticize their. Their choices they're making in it. You know, I think it's easy from our position to be like, he should have said this and he probably should have. I think it's a weird thing to call someone your fiance, which I get. They're. They are. They are engaged. They're about to get married. Who's also someone you didn't know three weeks ago. It's just a mind fuck. It's a weird thing. And, And I don't think there's a right an. You know, I just. He was probably hoping like there could have been a producer being like, I don't know. She's crazy. This always happens at the time. It's not a thing like, don't bring it. There's how. How many times have I brought up to things to like, friends or girlfriends at the time. And they were like, why'd you tell me that? You know, Like, I didn't need to know that, you know? And it was an earnest attempt to be honest.

[Dylan]

It's not that big of a deal.

[Vanita]

It's not that big of a deal. Like, post Bachelor, like, after I was the Bachelor and I was in a relationship, there were things that I, I really wanted to be transparent and honest. And there was a lot of things where it was like, I didn't need to know that. Thanks for telling me. And it, you know, so, yeah, I don't know. It's. I don't think it's that simple.

[Natalie]

I do think it's weird that these people are trying to make such big deals out of what these people were doing before going on the show.

[Vanita]

I think this is. I think there's a lot not going on this season.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

And I think you're. You're seeing, like, I don't care if.

[Natalie]

It was in a relationship four years ago and ghosted the girl. I don't give a. I don't care that Lauren was a guy before she went on the show. I don't care. Like, well, four years ago, they didn't even have sex.

[Vanita]

He says, even if they did. Yeah, you met on Tinder.

[Dylan]

It's hard when you say, like, this never happened and you're like, well, I don't remember Traders.

[Vanita]

Traders. Well, we'll keep it short and sweet because we do have Martin Cove coming up here momentarily. But, like, I think my biggest takeaway is if I go on Traders ever, I ever get the opportunity. I don't think I'll be able to give this many shits like Danielle and Carolyn.

[Natalie]

Yeah. I mean, the performance from Danielle when Carolyn got voted out was the most.

[Dylan]

She's.

[Vanita]

I imagine they're going to be sad, you know, Like, I, I get they're sad. I get they're excited, but, like, they're, they're really leaning into this being like life or death.

[Natalie]

I was so betrayed. You got a traitor out.

[Vanita]

Why?

[Nick]

You're breaking down in tears.

[Natalie]

It's a game show.

[Dylan]

Specifically is the one doing too much.

[Nick]

Doing too much.

[Vanita]

Well, according to Chrishell, who was here last week. I mean, it, it the fact that she's swearing on family members. Another thing I won't do if I go on Traders. Like, I don't care if I'm a faithful. I don't care if I'm a traitor. If you asked me to swear my kids, I'm like, fudge you.

[Natalie]

I Think the fact that they didn't air any of that is more telling. Like, why are they protecting Danielle in that sense? Like, why wouldn't air that? That's something that, like, I'm sure people would love to hear the audience.

[Vanita]

I think they appreciate how intense she is. I think they appreciate Jennifer just how, like, giving of the moment, like, they're leaning into. And I think for them to, like, air that would make, you know, d. Danielle is making excellent tv. She's been. I mean, yeah, we can debate whether it's kind of shady.

[Natalie]

Hard to watch.

[Vanita]

Swear on your kids hard to watch.

[Mary]

I don't hate Danielle as much.

[Vanita]

I think she's a savage. I mean, like, hard to watch, whatever, but she's an absolute savage. Say, you know, we all, like, fawned over Boston Rob. Well, man, he's a dish. Distant memory. She. She's outlasted all the traders. She's like. She's like, no one thinks she's a traitor. I mean, no one thought Caroline was a traitor. And the way, like, Danielle set up Caroline and, like, absolutely just eviscerated or was just really. I mean, man, she's a killer.

[Dylan]

I have two thoughts. I think nobody thinks she's a traitor because of what she said that they cut out, that they're like, there's no way. Like, she's. Apparently Dolores said there's no way anybody would, like, swear on their grandchildren. Like, it's not worth it. And then also, it's like, they're all gone. All the other traders are gone because Danielle decided to be me before you and sabotage everybody else. Yeah. So she ruined the game. She made it all about.

[Vanita]

And it makes sense that if she's going to. What's her name?

[Natalie]

Do you think. Do you think she told Britney she's a traitor?

[Dylan]

She's recruiting her for sure.

[Vanita]

Do you.

[Natalie]

Do you think before she recruited her, she went to Britney and was like.

[Mary]

Hey, I think Britney knows she's a traitor.

[Vanita]

I think Britney suspects now that she. I think she knows now before the, you know, the season, the episode ended before, like, Danielle took off her hood. I think she even said if, like, it's. It'd be obvious. I think she definitely is expecting Danielle to be underneath that hood, but I don't think she told her. And I think Danielle, based on what we heard about Chrishell, is that, like, if that's all true, Danielle is, like, seriously worried about, like, her being like. I think she realizes she said some crazy shit and that's what's protecting her. And she Deserves to. To. To. I mean, I don't know. Like, maybe. Maybe we should no longer believe people who say things like that.

[Dylan]

After the season, I think everybody's gonna.

[Vanita]

Be like, I swear to God, I don't believe in God. You know, like, oh, yeah, I.

[Natalie]

Didn't Bob the Drag Queen say that?

[Mary]

I think, yeah, he was doing a whole. And anyone that knows Bob, like, as soon as he said that, me being a fan of Bob, I knew exactly where that was going. I knew it was a joke.

[Dylan]

I think Danielle was probably trying to do what Bob did.

[Vanita]

She's a joke.

[Mary]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't know Danielle outside of the show, but I know I.

[Vanita]

Maybe Danielle, like, maybe like her. Maybe. For all we know, in Danielle's family or circle of friends, they think swearing on family members is the dumbest thing. It means nothing, and it's something people do, and they're like, sure, I swear on my cousins, because who gives a. Because, like, none of that matters, and they're not superstitious people, and they think.

[Natalie]

It'S stupid, so why wouldn't they air it?

[Dylan]

I was gonna say, yeah, I still want to protect.

[Vanita]

Because I think they still want to protect their traders, and they still want to protect how crazy. Everyone's losing their minds. And it makes. Because it makes it more dramatic. If we knew that Danielle said that, we would be like, that's why people aren't suspecting Danielle as opposed to, like, being more like, why aren't people suspecting Danielle? It makes for better tv.

[Martin Cove]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Because traders operates on a way of, like, the fun of traders is watching everyone and look stupid. When you know who the traitors are and you get to watch people, like, look a traitor right in the face and not realize they're a traitor, it's incredible. Because you're watching, you believe that you're watching people be dumb.

[Vanita]

Yeah, well, Tom and Dolores, I was.

[Dylan]

Gonna say, I love that they just keep throwing their votes and voting for each other. It's like, girl, like, what is going on here?

[Natalie]

Nobody's delusional thing.

[Mary]

It's so petty.

[Nick]

So true, though. Listen, I heard what everybody else had to say, but you know what?

[Mary]

I don't want you.

[Nick]

I just don't trust you. Tom, it's you.

[Vanita]

They're always like, I don't have enough evidence every.

[Mary]

And they both know the other one is a faithful.

[Vanita]

No, they're both saying it like, they believe that the other person's a traitor 100%.

[Mary]

They just want the other one Gone.

[Dylan]

Like, at this point, it's Ivor, Gabby and Dylan at the table. It's like everybody else is just throwing their votes for no reason.

[Nick]

Well, Gabby seems like she's, like, on to it and catching on what's happening, so I'm hoping she executes before she gets executed.

[Mary]

I worry for her every day.

[Vanita]

Danielle and Carolyn made a huge mistake by not recruiting. Gabby is a traitor. The fact that it was. That it was Britney or nobody.

[Nick]

Right.

[Dylan]

Caroline's not wrong, though. If they recruited Britney, Caroline.

[Vanita]

Caroline was absolutely right for saying no. Danielle was absolutely wrong for being anyone but her.

[Dylan]

Yeah, well, that's on Danielle.

[Vanita]

Well, although she got. She did. I don't know or not. She got her way.

[Mary]

Isn't the lore that on Big Brother it was Danielle and Britney and then Britney backstabbed it? Danielle.

[Nick]

Yes.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Vanita]

Also, what do you think about forgetting about. I know we're all coming at Danielle here for, like, you know, swearing on her kids. Little up of Carolyn to go to Dylan and be like, this is why people, like, judge me and not take me seriously. Make Dylan feel bad about, like, people not believing her.

[Mary]

That's the thing. This is all a game of manipulation.

[Vanita]

That's what I'm saying.

[Dylan]

Carolyn was speaking her truth, though. Like, she was. That is true. She's like, I'm always seen as the quirky, weird person and people don't take me seriously. So that's true.

[Martin Cove]

But.

[Vanita]

But she was leaning into that narrative to protect herself and then going to Dylan and making him feel like he had judged her in a wrong way. And what he did, he started picking up on her dishonesty. And then she made him feel bad for it.

[Natalie]

Her reaction at the chess thing when it. When they were like. Dolores was like, oh, well, like, you kept. Like, Carolyn, you were saying. Tom, you were on it. And she was like, no, I didn't. I didn't say that. Yeah, if she just would have been like, well, he was really pitching himself. I don't know. He really was convincing me. Like, it would have played so much better, but because she was like, huh.

[Vanita]

No. What?

[Natalie]

Me? I didn't say that.

[Nick]

I didn't say anything.

[Vanita]

In that moment, Dylan's like, oh, shit, here we are.

[Dylan]

I think her saying that she's been bullied in the past is not the same as swearing on your grandchildren.

[Mary]

I agree.

[Vanita]

I don't.

[Mary]

I also think both of them don't really matter because it's tv.

[Vanita]

Oh. It's also. Yeah. A total fucking game.

[Dylan]

Yeah, for sure.

[Vanita]

Chill as fuck. But if We're. If we're going to call Danielle out, I think Caroline is no different.

[Nick]

And also, like, am I wrong? But like, if I were going to recruit somebody as a trader, I'm recruiting Dylan.

[Dylan]

No, because then it's like, Pete, we're. He turns it down.

[Nick]

I don't think he had the option to turn it down.

[Vanita]

They're not allowed.

[Natalie]

It was either you turn it down or you go home.

[Vanita]

Now they're not.

[Nick]

Yeah. This one. This one. They.

[Dylan]

The second one, though, or the first one before.

[Vanita]

No, I think you're wrong now. Now. Now that Caroline's gone, Brittany does not have the option. But before, I believe they did. They did.

[Nick]

But this one, they don't. So that's what I'm saying is that.

[Vanita]

I'm like, I would have every option.

[Dylan]

Oh, true, though. Well, but she. That's the Danielle show. She doesn't care about that.

[Nick]

That's what I'm saying. I'm like, we're like the most, like, unsuspecting person that everybody knows is a faithful. Like, why would you not want to recruit?

[Dylan]

Force him.

[Nick]

You know, force him.

[Mary]

Also, everyone thinks that both traitors are girls right now. So why would you not grab a guy and flip that?

[Dylan]

It's because she knows Britney's going to go to bat for her.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

So Britney's going to be the deflection.

[Mary]

I don't think Britney's actually going to go to bat for her because at the end of the day, they all want to win.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Mary]

So Britney's going to cut her throat just like she did on Big Brother.

[Nick]

Britney's done it before. She'll do it again.

[Vanita]

Exactly.

[Dylan]

I hope she does.

[Mary]

I'm really excited to watch what happens next.

[Vanita]

We'll see. Well, up next, we have a very endearing conversation with Martin Cove. You know him from the hit series Cobra Kai, also from the Karate Kid movies. He has some great endearing stories, obviously, about his time on Cobra Kai. It was a great chat with Martin. I look forward to listening to it. And that is up next.

[Dylan]

Hey, prime members, are you tired of.

[Vanita]

Ads interfering with your favorite podcasts?

[Dylan]

Good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad free top.

[Vanita]

Podcasts included with your prime membership.

[Dylan]

To start listening, download the Amazon music.

[Vanita]

App for free or go to Amazon.com.

[Dylan]

Adfreepodcasts that's Amazon.com ad freepodcast to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads.

[Martin Cove]

Yeah, that's kind of one of the things I'm working on now.

[Natalie]

Can I take it out of this?

[Martin Cove]

Yeah, sure.

[Vanita]

What is this? Is this a comic book?

[Martin Cove]

That's a graphic novel of four issues. Four issues of a comic book called the Prodigal Son that we're developing into a series. And there's a convention in Glendale, in Glendale this coming week and then I'll be signing there and I own it. And we're going to do it as a, as a series. It's about a gunfighter that I'll play who's killed everything and is a 12 year old kid that he bonds with and they exchange moral fights, cyber between them and they each learn how to be human. The kid learns how to be a survivalist and I learned how to be a human being.

[Vanita]

So that, that, that's their character right there?

[Martin Cove]

Yeah, yeah. If you open it up full, you'll see. Well, the character is all through the book, you know, he's the lead and he's, he's the man in black. And they're both on a mission to get this bad gang that I at one time ran and I was ostracized by my son who in real life my son will play the leader of the gang. And it's really a good story. It's very much like John Kreese in Cobra Kai, you know.

[Natalie]

Wow. How long did it take you to write that?

[Martin Cove]

I wrote all the broad strokes, the treatments for each four issues. One of my partners, Don Handfield, he wrote the dialogue in the comic, in the captions. And then we, we had an artist do the, do the artwork.

[Vanita]

Wow, it was beautiful artwork.

[Martin Cove]

Yeah, it's really incredible artwork.

[Vanita]

Oh yeah. And I kind of. It kind of. You can see you in there a little bit.

[Martin Cove]

Oh, yeah. You know, there was. I find that the comic book world doesn't care what you look like. So in a couple of issues you could see it's Martin Cove, couple of issues. You would know if it's me or Elvis Costello. You know, I mean, it's like. And they don't care. You know, it explained to me that it's at the hands of the artist, you know, And I don't really, you know, I'm a comic book collector of TV and movie comic books, you know, 60s Westerns and all. But we'll talk about this during the thing.

[Vanita]

Yeah, yeah, we're kind of already talking. Yeah, we're recording. We just.

[Natalie]

Martin Cove, everybody.

[Vanita]

Martin Cove, everybody. I'm very excited to have you, man. I, I've been a fan of the Karate Kid franchise franchise for, well, like since I was a kid. Karate Kid 2 might be one of my favorites. That opening scene, you know, where you're punching through the glass. It was very cool. Obviously, Cobra Kai coming out. So very excited to have you. Very, very cool for me.

[Martin Cove]

Thank you.

[Vanita]

Yeah. Younger me was. Yeah, it's. It's. You know, I get very excited when I have guests like yourself on this show. You know, I kind of started the show and then never thought I'd have people that I've known my whole life and just was fans of and watched as a kid growing up. So it's very cool.

[Martin Cove]

I, I. You know, it's interesting on when that happens. You know, it's like when I. When I was Sean Connery standing in 1972 in a movie called the Anderson Tapes, I just started acting, and there I was working with Sean Connery, and I was a glorified extra. It was called a photo double. You know, you stand in line up a shot. You know, it was like my second year in the business. And the most fascinating thing I learned from him, and he was working with lots of actors then who were very popular, who are gone now. Martin Balsam, Jack Warden, just Diane Cannon. You know, I learned how to listen from this guy. You know, it was really interesting. He had a plot to rob this Fifth Avenue building, and he had to get a lot of people's cooperation. And the greatest thing that I learned from Sean Connery being there for six, eight weeks was how to listen in a scene. And he was a great guy. Bumped into him years later, played tennis with him over here in Motor Avenue opposite Fox, and it was great.

[Natalie]

Did you win?

[Vanita]

Yeah. Who won?

[Martin Cove]

Well, it was a very funny story. We can't really tell it aloud here because there's a lot of cursing.

[Vanita]

You can curse.

[Martin Cove]

You can curse here.

[Vanita]

It's up to you, you. But we allow it. Yeah.

[Martin Cove]

So we're playing 10. I bump into him. This is like 15 years later. I finished Cagney Lacy and I finished Karate Kid one. And, you know, it was a little established, and. And I said, sean, do you remember me? And he's looking, you know, he's looking for a tennis game. And this is probably 85, I think. And he says, no. And I said, well, okay, I'm gonna hit. And we're hitting, and he's hitting everybody, everything into the net, over my head, playing terribly. He had a bad back, and tennis wasn't his game. He played golf. So every time he hit the ball over the net, he screamed, son of a. You know, screaming out loud, and I'm dying. I'm dying on the other end of the court, hysterical, because I'm saying to myself, I'm playing tennis with James Bond and he curses just like me, you know.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Martin Cove]

And it was just, it was the height of the day, you know, it was a good guy, really good guy.

[Natalie]

Did you finally tell him how y'all knew each other after the game?

[Martin Cove]

No, I asked if he remembered me at the very top of, of when we chatted.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Martin Cove]

At the beginning when he, I saw him, he's looking for a game and he didn't remember me. Yeah. And I said, sean, do you remember me? I was just standing and he says, nope, but do you want to play? So, yeah, sure. You know, he's good.

[Vanita]

Isn't that great how, how like, you know, we remember those stories from so long ago and they, they stick with us and you know, just hearing how you even got into acting and here you are now so many years later replaying a character that was so iconic in like the 80s. It just like just, you know, kind of, it always sticks with you. It's always, always fun to hear those like, throwback stories.

[Martin Cove]

The character was, you know, a very one dimensional character in the movies, but when we did the series, I did not want him to be anything really but vulnerable and have an arc and have a lot of colors in his emotional colors and people to learn why he was the way he was in the movies. You know, tough, hard, onedimensional, you know, and they did it, they wrote those things and it made me feel really good, especially the, the end, you know, season six, where he has, you know, there's so many people that, there are so many interviews. My son reads me all the interviews and, you know, there's so many, you know, I guess they're not really. Interviews are actually, you know, criticisms or appreciation in the sense of a review of the final season and all. They wanted to see more of what happened to me. They wanted to have more development of the redemption.

[Vanita]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Martin Cove]

And I thought that was really good because made me feel like, well, you know, Johnny Lawrence is the lead of the show, but that this tough guy had enough redemption through the season because six is good for the character and he had enough redemption that people wanted more of that. And it wasn't something you saw in the character because he, you know, he's tough, he was very moral, but it was his way of the highway, you know, very impatient. And a lot of those residual effects that playing John Kreese stayed with me for a long time. You know, you finish Five years, five months a year, four months a year. And some of that darkness was hard to rub off. It was, you know.

[Vanita]

Yeah. Did you were there people like in the height with Cardi kid the movies playing this villainous character that, that was so kind of rugged. I mean, John Kreese was a really good bad guy in, in the best possible way. But I imagine fans of the franchise, it did they treat you a certain way sometimes where they kind of confused, you know, John versus Martin.

[Martin Cove]

I would go to Malibu and be in the supermarket and I all of a sudden get nailed in the lower back, like punched hard.

[Vanita]

What?

[Martin Cove]

You know, and it was a little kid. I'll never forget it was a little kid and it was in the market basket, I think in Halibu years ago. And he nailed me and he looked at me and he says, you hurt Ralph, you know, and then I was like, I couldn't do anything because the kid was a little kid. He hit me so hard, you know, right in the gun and the lower, the hip. And you know, people were affected by that. You know, they really thought that he was so one dimensional, emotional, so tough. I remember John Avilson coming to me, you know, I try to smile a little bit in the Karate Kid one movie. And he came up to me and he says, martin Cove, I don't want, I don't want the Marty Cove charm. I don't want the twinkle. I want death. So I said, okay, you know, now I just finished a lovely movie for his son, you know, Ash Avelson, which. It's a terrific little movie. And it's called the Queen of the Ring, about the first, first female wrestler. And I play a character with a lot of vulnerability, with a lot of, of enjoyment of the female warrior. And I give, you know, wrestling, women in wrestling world were not allowed to wrestle until you couldn't wrestle in California or New York until 1972.

[Natalie]

Wow.

[Martin Cove]

So women in the 40s and 50s and 60s, I was the, the promoter, the wrestling commissioner actually. And I played this character. And not until the 50s did he give this woman, her name was Mildred, a license to wrestle because this wasn't happening. And he was, he truly believed that women could wrestle and it could be a good entertainment. And he did it and he promoted it and helped her get started in the Midwest. And then it all exploded and she became, you know, very wealthy and the, I guess the point of no return for women in that sport, you know, because she went ahead and vessel men and so it was cool.

[Natalie]

Wow.

[Martin Cove]

You know, so it's really funny. You come full circle. You know, his father had me playing this one dimensional, you know, soldier of death, you know, and then, and then now I'm playing last year the this movie. And Ash is a wonderful writer and you know, John's gone, but Ash directed and wrote this wonderful film.

[Vanita]

Do you find the vulnerable characters to be harder to play than the one dimensional ones is because you, you kind of have to channel some of your own vulnerabilities sometimes versus just kind of playing a bad guy. Or. Or they both equally have its challenges.

[Martin Cove]

Well, they both equally have their challenges. But you know, in my work I'll go back into personal situation situations. Yeah. Which I can. If I have to play something very vulnerable like with Johnny Lawrence at the end. Anytime it's vulnerability I bring into some very. Some personal situations, whether it be with family or my, you know, my ex girlfriend who, you know, we were together for like seven years and broke up 12 times. And it was very volatile. You know, it was like always like this. So there was a lot, a lot to draw from. And a lot of those emotions were emotions that were, you know, impatience and my way of the highway, all the stuff that came out of John Kreese. So it like rubbed Martin Cove and then Martin Cove was allowed to use it and personalize it for other things involving the character. Yeah, per se vulnerability, per se sadness. And so it's kind of was interesting because you could use a residual emotion gathered by the character and then ultimately use it in real life if it works for you or not. And then use it again when you have to be vulnerable and kind and soft and gentle. So it was quite an interesting ride with this character. And my new project Prodigal Son is the character is very similar and I look forward to that, to doing it as a series. You know, an old gunfighter set in his ways like John Kreese, you know, with a 12 year old kid who could be like a Johnny Lawrence and learning each of them exchanging moral fiber with each other, learning how to be survivalists and a human being. See, today I don't think kids have any heroes. I think, I think when I grew up in the 60s, there were 35 Westerns. You're both too young for that, but there were 35 Westerns on primetime TV so you could choose your heroes. Then you had movies in the 50s and 60s, you had movies with John Wayne about films like the Searchers, who I modeled my character John Kreese after because John Wayne played a real son of a bitch in that movie. And it was a great film, John. One of John Ford's best Westerns. I just want to leave the legacy of kids having heroes. So when I go out, I know I've left the children a choice of having a hero. And I think they'll look at this boy in the Prodigal Son. It's a great comic book. There's four issues in that graphic novel. And this week we'll go to the comic convention and I'll see the climate for everything.

[Vanita]

That's awesome. Is this under. Is this gonna in production already?

[Martin Cove]

No, it's not in production because we're looking for a showrunner right now.

[Vanita]

Okay.

[Martin Cove]

Right off the press, it's. It's the graphic novel that I own that was four issues. And the four issues will hit the stores. And this is a comic book convention of all the owners of comic book stores. So it's here in Los Angeles.

[Vanita]

How did you find out that they were creating Cobra Kai and bringing back. Back to kind of the Karate Kid universe? Was that a shock to you or did you hear rumblings of it? It had been so many years since the movies were out. What was that like for you to hear, that concept that they were coming out with this series?

[Martin Cove]

William Zapka told me. And they went to Billy and went to Ralph and hired and got them aboard. And then they came to me. It's a funny story. They told me they wanted me to be in the 10th episode of season one to attract people to watch season two. And they were afraid to tell me this because they were so taken by the toughness of this character that they thought I would kick their ass in the restaurant. We went to Dan Tanner's dinner and they told us, literally told it on the podcast. That was my. My children and myself, we had podcast for a while, and they came as guests, all three writers, Josh, John and Hayden. And they said, we thought you were going to kick our ass because we wanted you to come in and see episode 10 instead of episode 5 or 6, which is what I wanted to come in on. I thought it was really funny that they admitted to that and they felt that I never felt it at the meeting, you know, and it kind of made sense. Come in. Episode 10 set up, you know, season two, and it did, because no one thought I'd return this 30 years, and then the real story's only just begun. It's my favorite line. So it was very interesting. And they made the deal, you know, because they had. They were different. You take so many hit movies, try to be Television series and they fail.

[Vanita]

Oh, yeah.

[Martin Cove]

And this one was through the eyes of Johnny Lawrence. It was different. And everybody, YouTube liked it, gave him an order for 10. And then when YouTube did not want any more original programming, two years later, we had shown massive numbers and especially it was during COVID So everybody was home and the show became a phenomenon on television. And then ultimately Netflix bought it.

[Vanita]

Yeah, I mean, it's. You're right. A lot of times when they do like a, a remake of a movie, it's, you know, they're just kind of redoing it where like Cobra Kai. You're right. It's a whole, whole different avenue, a whole different angle. And like, it's really fascinating to see like these characters like Johnny and John who are just like, you had this strong opinion about who they were when you watch those movies. And then to, just to see the other side, the empathy or just what created them to be this certain way. And then, you know, Ralph's character, you know, and then, you know, you see flaws in that character where in the movie he was the golden boy and this kind of righteous character. It's way more captivating that way. It'd be interesting to see if there's other shows or movies out there where they, they learn from Cobra Kai and kind of take that approach rather than trying to just recreate a movie and adapt it to a. A TV series.

[Martin Cove]

You know, my son showed me a 15 minute pilot that he did and the writing was brilliant. And this, I don't remember the author's name, but he had written many, many books. And this was a 15 minute pilot, very similar to, you know, Jack Reacher, you know.

[Vanita]

Yeah.

[Martin Cove]

And it was brilliant, though. And why was it brilliant? Because of the writing. Because the writing, every line. And I looked at it on an iPad pet. I said, jesse, this is fantastic. And he did it a while ago and without the written word, without the writing of Cobra Kai, you know, I talk about it on interviews all the time. We wouldn't have had the success. You know, you could be, you know, John Kreese, Tony Lawrence, Ralph Macho coming out of a hit movie. Sure. But you have to perform and come to the table with the good writing for all the other characters. For our personal problems, you've got to come with development. And these cats knew everything about our character two years in advance, so they knew where you were going to go after season one. I went, met with mercenaries, I met with Army Rangers, I met with everyone that could have met John Kreese in the field, made notes On a legal yellow pad, five times, pages of notes, went to lunch, everything I had on my notes, they already knew the flashbacks to introduce this character in a certain way, you know, in. In a snake pit, killing his captain, you know, they knew it all. They had it all planned out in their head. There was nothing I could say, you know, none of my notes were pertinent. And I was. You know, I made a lot of notes because I thought Karate Kid was my show, you know, so, you know, so if you treat it that way, then, you know, you make an abundance of notes and, you know, Cagney and Lacey. I used to. I always thought it was Cagney Lacey and his Becky, which is the character's name. You know, it also was a good show, and I think that show, Cagney and Lacey, was marvelous and would have been a big hit today. It was ahead of its time back in the 80s, you know, but, you know, I've been lucky enough to be part of some really good stuff.

[Vanita]

How do you feel like Cobra Kai connected with its audience? Like, do you have. You know, I know when you were back in the day, you got punched by a little kid, but did you. Did you have any better moments with some of the younger fans of Cobra Kai? And you felt like you resonated or, you know, it spoke to them in a certain way.

[Martin Cove]

Certainly you go to a Comic Con, and I used to ask people, why do you like the show? And they say, well, the kids watch the show, and then we go up to them and say, would you like to see the movies that we grew up on with this same characters? And the kids say, well, okay, Daddy. They all go and they watch the movies, and the kids love the movies. All the family will gather around the TV to watch Cobra Kai. Now, it's a family event, so there aren't very many family events on television. So that's how it became popular from the beginning. And then people say, you're the best villain on tv. We love to hate you, but when you got stabbed, happens in the prison, cries. So I said to myself, you know, I don't want to be known as a villain. I really don't. And the mere fact that they cried, I. I actually did my job.

[Vanita]

Yeah, you connected with them.

[Martin Cove]

I connected with them. And certainly in the sixth season, you know, lots of tears. You know, that last scene with Billy is wonderful. They wrote great stuff. Sure. Could I have been longer? Could you have seen me survive, you know, the. The boat explosion? We shot a scene where you see my hand going to A magazine with just my ring and a cigar for. To be introduced into episode 15, the Last Bit. You don't see me. You just. You would see that and assume I made it. But it was a little hokey to have that boat blow up the way it did. And 24 hours later, I survived smoking.

[Natalie]

A cigar, reading a magazine.

[Vanita]

Yeah.

[Martin Cove]

So it was. Was kind of like, you know, too much. And I understood it when, you know, but. But in the articles, you see people saying, well, John Kreese always survives everything he says. Why didn't. Didn't someone throw him a lifeline? There was one picture of me being in the water, right. Someone. Someone AI'd it and me holding onto a lifeline in the water. It's funny, you know, the, The. The reactions are enormous. You know, they're very popular.

[Vanita]

That's awesome.

[Martin Cove]

So you wish you can take that into, you know, prod that kind of success. I love to have the, you know, the writers be basically the showrunners of my, you know, my friend Lincoln Logison is wonderful. He was a producer, the line producer on a variety of things, Rough Riders, and did. Did a lot of Larry Levinson's movies and did a touch of love for Hallmark for a picture that my son started. And I play a restaurateur. And I like those kind of movies. Movies, even though it wasn't real schmalzy, like Hallmark movie, it was about love and food. And I like to be able to do that again, you know, have the emotionality of what I displayed in. In the final season, utilized in other characters. Yeah, that would be fun. Characters that are not bad guys.

[Vanita]

Are you sad to see it come to an end? Are you more excited about what this success of Cobra Kai can allow you to do? Like, you just kind of talked about these other characters that you. You'd love a chance to play it more of.

[Martin Cove]

Yeah, it. It allowed me to just be. Have a level of confidence in your instrument and your work, because any practice makes perfect. So the mere fact you get a TV series, you can go act several times a week, no matter who you are, you're going to get better.

[Vanita]

Yeah.

[Martin Cove]

You know, I tell that to my son and, and he's really good. He, you know, he. He has a movie out that I produced, which is a film called the Gunfighters Deal. And it's the story of a coward in a Western town who makes a deal with the devil to be the fastest gun in the West. And then he tries to reneg and the devil says, no, it's a Lovely little movie. We shot it about a year ago in Florida and it's a western and it was just bought by the Shout Factory for distribution and they're a western organization. They were co produced this movie on streaming called Old Henry about Billy the Kid and they own Stagecoach, the original John ford Stagecoach from 1939 and all of Kenny Rogers westerns, the gambler ones. And they're just western lovers, so they'll really nurse this piece, you know, properly.

[Vanita]

That's great, man. It's. It's so fun to hear all the these stories. Before we let you go, we have a fun game. I don't know, do you like games?

[Martin Cove]

Sure, sure.

[Vanita]

We. I don't. I don't imagine you watch any reality tv.

[Martin Cove]

No, I don't watch.

[Vanita]

I assumed as much. Our audience likes.

[Natalie]

You're missing out. You're missing out.

[Mary]

There are a lot of villains who are very, very.

[Natalie]

Yeah, you can channel awesome character.

[Vanita]

They have their villains. But we thought we'd play a fun game, a little crossover. Mary came up with this game. You want to tell him the name?

[Mary]

Yeah, it's called 80s movie or Bravo villain.

[Vanita]

So the premise being like these iconic quotes, did they come from a reality TV villain or an iconic 80s movie villain?

[Natalie]

Yes.

[Vanita]

And then you just have to guess. It's so simple.

[Martin Cove]

All right, all right. And so an 80s reality show villain.

[Natalie]

No, no, no.

[Vanita]

Be a modern day, modern day reality TV villain or an 80s movie reality.

[Martin Cove]

Present day reality villain.

[Vanita]

And you just have to get an 80s villain.

[Natalie]

Correct.

[Martin Cove]

Got it.

[Natalie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mary]

All right, so we just show you a quote from either an 80s movie villain or a reality TV villain. And it's your job to guess who said it.

[Martin Cove]

Okay? Yeah.

[Mary]

All right, so first up we have me Gently with a chainsaw. Do I look like Mother Brother Teresa?

[Vanita]

Oh, it's a good line.

[Martin Cove]

Yeah, it's a very good line. Well, it's definitely an 80s movie because it wouldn't work on reality TV.

[Vanita]

So Mary, you are correct.

[Mary]

It was Heather chandler from Heather's 1988.

[Martin Cove]

All right, so do I say if it's like that, an 80s movie? Yeah, there's a lot of to say who did it.

[Natalie]

You don't have to guess. Unless you know.

[Martin Cove]

Unless I know.

[Natalie]

Unless you know for sure.

[Martin Cove]

That's good. If I know, I know.

[Natalie]

Yeah, you know, you know, and they.

[Mary]

Can, they can curse in reality tv so they might say, fuck yeah.

[Martin Cove]

Even network reality, they just bleep it.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Martin Cove]

Oh, I got it.

[Mary]

But they, they, they say it a lot.

[Martin Cove]

Okay.

[Mary]

All right, next up we have. This town needs an enema.

[Martin Cove]

This town needs an enema. It sounds like something from a reality show.

[Vanita]

It says the Joker.

[Mary]

Captain or Jack Nicholson in a tv.

[Vanita]

Now that you say that, I kind of remember that line from the movie.

[Martin Cove]

Oh, yeah. He has so many great lines.

[Vanita]

That was a great movie.

[Martin Cove]

There was a. There was a movie I always use as an example. It's egotistical. Example. There's a movie called the Carnal Knowledge that he did back in 72. Yeah, yeah, and he did. With Ann. Margaret. And he's in the. He's in the bedroom and she's wailing, and she says, I love you, I want you, I need you. And he says. And only the way Jack Nicholson could say it. Like that line, you know, he says, well, I'm taken. And he's getting dressed to leave, and she's in the bedroom and she wants him to just come back to bed. And he says, I'm taken. And she says, by who? You know, as if she's jealous. And what woman do you have? And he says, by me. You know, it's a great line. And the way he delivers it, you know, it's like, I'm taken by me.

[Vanita]

That's awesome.

[Mary]

All right, next up, we have. You can only get hurt so much before you get numb.

[Martin Cove]

Oh, sounds like a very. Someone giving someone else psychological, surgical advice. Yeah. About a relationship. Yeah. So get reality tv.

[Mary]

That's correct. That was Teresa Giudice from the Real Housewives of New Jersey.

[Martin Cove]

Give me strength.

[Justin]

Look at you killing it.

[Martin Cove]

Give me strength on all these.

[Mary]

All right, next up, I am the devil, and don't you forget it.

[Martin Cove]

Well, that could be Witches of Eastwick. I mean, it could be.

[Natalie]

Oh, my gosh, knows the name of the movie.

[Martin Cove]

Yeah, Jack Nicholson. I just watched it again. Such a good movie. You know that movie? Oh, no, it's a good movie. Jack Nicholson again plays the devil. And Cher, Susan Sarandon and Michelle Pfeiffer play three women in a little town, and he infects them because. And that line would work. I am the devil. And don't you forget, it's an incredible movie. Okay, so what you say a movie.

[Mary]

It is not from the classic Witches of each Wick. It is from Vanderpump Rules, said by Stassi Schroeder. All right, next up, we have. You need people like me so you can point your fucking fingers and say.

[Natalie]

That'S the bad guy.

[Vanita]

I want this to be reality tv. It's such a good line.

[Martin Cove]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, sure, if we're cursing him. Reality tv. It's definitely. Yeah. Reality tv.

[Mary]

All right. Tony Montana from Scarface.

[Martin Cove]

Boy, these are tricky ones.

[Natalie]

Wow.

[Mary]

I really. I thought this was gonna be so much more easy. And then when I was making it, I was like, man, kinda hard.

[Natalie]

It's Montana.

[Martin Cove]

There were so many classic moments in that movie. I mean, just class.

[Natalie]

This one is definitely an 80s movie.

[Vanita]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Since you're new here, I'm gonna cut you a break today. So why don't you make like a tree and get out of here?

[Vanita]

Oh, wait, hold on, wait.

[Dylan]

That's.

[Vanita]

What movie is that? Is that a Clinton? That's a Clinton. Aceford line. Oh, no, no, wait, wait. Back to the Future.

[Alex]

Yeah, that's like a true.

[Vanita]

Ding, ding, ding.

[Mary]

I love that picture of him.

[Vanita]

Oh, it's Back to the Future too.

[Mary]

He says in one. I just put part two because I wanted to put this picture of him in there because it makes me giggle.

[Martin Cove]

Have you seen the play? You know, this play? Last night we saw Harry Potter. Took the family to see Harry Potter. And Back to the Future is coming to Pantages.

[Mary]

Oh, it is.

[Martin Cove]

And that's what. I haven't seen it. I've seen Moulin Rouge five times. I just love Moulin Rouge.

[Mary]

It's incredible.

[Martin Cove]

And I've seen Nashville, seen in Tampa, you know, I just love Moulin Rouge. It's all. It's all about John Kreese. It's all about. Every line is about a relationship that didn't work out because of bad emotions, you know. And I think Moolah Rouge is brilliant because. And. And Back to the Future is supposed to be as good because they take lyrics from a variety of songs, whether it's Elton John, T. Kenneth Turner, whatever, and they'll take one lyric and put it into the dialogue of the. Of the show. And the show is all about, like the movie, you know, a really romantic relationship. But it's better because you're right there, you know, and you just sit there and you cry. It's the best. Moulin Rouge. I hope it comes here again.

[Natalie]

Yeah, Harry Potter was good.

[Martin Cove]

Harry Potter was really good. You have to know Harry Potter, though. I mean, it goes fast.

[Vanita]

Did you read the books?

[Martin Cove]

Yeah, but the problem is he. Even when you read the books, what they depict on the stage, it's really a two day event in your life. In New York, it's two days. So here they had to cut stuff and talk fast to get it all happening. And if you're not really well versed in everything that's going on in all those movies. First of all, you got to sit in the third row because you got to. Got to watch the faces and hear what they're saying. And it's complicated, but it's done very well.

[Vanita]

Okay.

[Martin Cove]

Really good. You gotta go see it. Okay.

[Mary]

All right, well, next up we have. If I give you a Chanel necklace and you choke on it, that's your problem, not mine.

[Natalie]

Wow, Chanel necklace. What does your gut tell you?

[Martin Cove]

It's a reality show. My gut?

[Natalie]

Your gut.

[Martin Cove]

Chanel necklace.

[Vanita]

It is.

[Mary]

It's Lisa Barbara from Maria H5's Salt Lake City, which is Barlow. They should make Salt Lake City into a musical.

[Vanita]

We've had talk to some actresses who are fans of these housewives, and they've been rich in character study. You know, they'll watch some of these shows and try to pull from, you know, when they're developing various characters that they're playing. They'll study some of these women, we've been told.

[Martin Cove]

Interesting.

[Vanita]

They're rich with consciousness, content.

[Mary]

Yeah. All right, next we have. Stop acting like you're the number one fucking guy in this group. I'm the number one guy in this group.

[Martin Cove]

Jesus. Wow.

[Natalie]

There's not a lot of.

[Vanita]

Oh, you don't know who this is? He wouldn't know, but you should know.

[Natalie]

Well, I should tell you.

[Martin Cove]

Yeah, that could help, but it doesn't. I don't know this one.

[Mary]

All right, it's Jax Taylor from Vanderbilt.

[Natalie]

There's a lot of reality Jax Taylor.

[Mary]

Maybe could be an 80s movie villain. He does say a lot of things that you might see in a Biff from Back to the Future.

[Martin Cove]

I have to do a PSA for mental health.

[Vanita]

Please.

[Martin Cove]

I have to go and do that. So I have to go to the other side of town and do it. A friend of mine, it's very interesting. He's been asking me for years to do it. And it's amazing. If children don't get enough attention from the age, from birth all the way to four, if they spend a lot of time watching TV or looking out the window or just not getting the support and love in those four of years, 68% of those children end up dropping out of high school. Yeah.

[Natalie]

You know, we have a one year old little girl.

[Martin Cove]

Do you really do one? Yeah, you got it. You know, I mean, yeah, I kind of knew that because we had tried for five years to have a baby and my ex wife was still very good friends. And we tried everything, you know, gift and frozen embryo transplants and in vitro. And finally we had. We had twins. And after five years of attempting. And it was incredible. The kids are great, and boy and a girl. And I think that's when my career slowed down in 1990. I also think that's when I decided not to be Steve McQueen anymore and try, you know, for 20 years of my career, I was doing Steve McQueen, you know, and then all of a sudden the kids happened and I felt like, well, I'm okay now. You know, I've got the kids. And I just sat there and watched in the crib, watch them sleep. I didn't even think about. Oh, yeah, I think it was eight months. And I got a movie in London. So I took the kids. I could not be without them. I took them with a nanny in 1990. In 1991, did a movie called the Shadow Chaser and went to Pinewood Studios and took a flat and cute. And I wouldn't leave them. I would just go back and watch these twins. Got them these little things they call bagels and they can hold. And walk with them and learn to walk, you know. And I just spent more time with the kids than I ever on my career anymore. And then I've. Of course, I realized I was. I needed money. I needed to go back to work.

[Vanita]

Yeah, no, being a parent is. Been the most fulfilling, you know, aspect of my life or just. Yeah, it just makes everything else.

[Martin Cove]

It takes the focus. Especially when we're sensitive as artists. You know, going to a job 9 to 5 is a different deal. But when you're an artist, usually a little more sensitive and, you know, you have so much history that you use as an artist for whatever work you're doing. Painting or poetry or acting. Doesn't matter. Or music. So we're so familiar with what it takes to grow up that we want to cultivate our children's lives so much more, I think, than the average person. But in any case, I must go.

[Natalie]

And get to your mental health.

[Martin Cove]

I've got to go and do that. This guy's a good friend of mine. He produced Oxford Blues, this movie, and. And lot of films. And. And I told him I promised him today so I'd go.

[Vanita]

We'll get out of here, man.

[Martin Cove]

Yeah, I'm going to read from a terrible prompt. It's a lot of stuff, so I don't have to have to learn anything. But I wanted to come by and say hello, you know.

[Vanita]

Well, Martin, it's been an absolute pleasure having you, and thank you for the storytelling and congratulations on an incredible career. And obviously the success of coi, which, if you are listening, is. Is it out now? Is it?

[Martin Cove]

Yeah. Season six premiered on Thursday and it's on Netflix and it's, you know, it's one of the biggest shows.

[Vanita]

Yeah, no, it's absolutely huge. It's a great watch and abs, you know, like Martin said, a great family show. Well, I know it's a family show, but also it's for the kids, it's for the adults. Everyone can enjoy it. It's an absolute fantastic one. Be sure to check it out. Thank you again, Martin.

[Martin Cove]

My pleasure.

[Vanita]

Thank you to our guests, Alex, Vanita and Martin. We will see you tomorrow for Electric Going Deeper with the one and only Bella Thorne. You definitely do not want to miss that. It dramatic, emotional, and you will not want to miss it. And then on Thursday, we will be back covering all your favorite shows. We'll get into a little bit more Summer House because I know we only talked about it briefly this episode. There's just so much. Plus we get into some more Love is Blind and so much more. We'll see you then. Bye.

[Nick]

You're pretty smart when people talk about you. Too smart comes up a lot. So why are you trying to prove them wrong?

[Justin]

Why aren't you pushing the limits of.

[Nick]

Science and powering the nuclear engines of the world's most powerful Navy?

[Natalie]

If you were born for it, isn't.

[Nick]

It time to make a smart choice? You can be smart or you can be nuke smart. Become a nuclear [e-mail] nukesmart America's Navy forged by the sea.