E893 Ask Nick - How Do I Connect With My Son?

Summary

Summary of The Viall Files Episode E893 - “Ask Nick: How Do I Connect With My Son?”

Release Date: March 3, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode E893 of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall, along with co-host Justin, addresses listeners' pressing questions about dating, relationships, and personal challenges. This episode features multiple callers seeking advice, with the primary focus on a heartfelt query: "How Do I Connect With My Son?" Below is a detailed summary capturing the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

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1. Sarah's Dilemma: Conspiracy Theorist at a Wedding

Caller: Sarah, 34
Topic: Uninviting a conspiracy-theorist grandfather from her sister's wedding

Summary:

Sarah reaches out for advice on whether to uninvite her sister's grandfather, who has increasingly delved into extreme conspiracy theories. These beliefs have led to disruptive behaviors, making interactions at family gatherings tense and unpredictable.

Key Points:

• Background:
  Sarah explains that during the COVID-19 pandemic, her sister's grandfather became deeply entrenched in dark political conspiracy theories. This shift has made family interactions strained, culminating in a recent incident where he loudly declared himself a "reborn alien" at a family dinner.

• Conflict:
  Her sister is torn between wanting all grandparents present at her wedding and the fear that his presence could lead to a dramatic scene, potentially ruining the event.

• Advice from Justin:
  Justin empathizes with Sarah's predicament, acknowledging the challenging times. He suggests setting clear boundaries and considering the safety and serenity of the wedding atmosphere. Justin emphasizes the importance of prioritizing the bride's wishes and the overall harmony of the event over accommodating one disruptive family member.

Notable Quotes:

• Sarah [03:15]: "I just feel like it's a recipe for disaster."
• Justin [06:46]: "If you think the aliens are taking over, you’re going to speak up."

Conclusion:
Justin advises Sarah to support her sister in making a decision that safeguards the wedding's integrity, even if it means uninviting a family member to prevent potential chaos.

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2. Rachel's Relationship Struggle: Boyfriend's Emotional Disconnect

Caller: Rachel, 26
Topic: Encouraging her boyfriend to care about her feelings amidst differing sex drives

Summary:

Rachel discusses her long-distance relationship challenges, specifically focusing on her boyfriend's diminishing emotional engagement and differing sexual needs since she adjusted her antidepressant medication.

Key Points:

• Background:
  Rachel and her boyfriend reconnected after six years apart. Recently, she increased her antidepressant dosage, which has notably reduced her libido. This change has created tension as her boyfriend desires daily intimacy, while she's comfortable with a few times a week.

• Conflict:
  Her boyfriend has become emotionally distant, refraining from intimacy and withdrawing support, leaving Rachel feeling undervalued and unsupported.

• Advice from Justin:
  Justin offers empathy and suggests that Rachel's boyfriend may be struggling to reconcile his needs with her current emotional state. He advises Rachel to communicate her feelings clearly, set boundaries, and consider the relationship's viability if her boyfriend remains unwilling to adapt and empathize with her situation.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel [23:41]: "He has been kind of withdrawing from me, like, being different."
• Justin [26:46]: "I'm here to say, two to three times a week for any relationship, it's like, job well done."

Conclusion:
Justin emphasizes the importance of mutual understanding and adaptability in relationships. He encourages Rachel to prioritize her emotional well-being and not compromise her mental health for her boyfriend's demands.

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3. Nick's Challenge: Connecting with His Teenage Son

Caller: Nick (represented by Sarah), 26
Topic: Strengthening the bond with his teenage son amidst fostering challenges

Summary:

Nick, a 26-year-old foster parent, seeks guidance on building a meaningful connection with his teenage son, who has struggled with making friends, substance use, and resisting therapy.

Key Points:

• Background:
  Nick and his husband took in their husband's 4-year-old son and his sister nearly a year ago. While connecting well with his daughter, Nick finds it challenging to bond with his teenage son due to differences in personality and interests.

• Conflict:
  The son exhibits behaviors such as isolating himself, using substances like weed, and showing resistance to engaging in therapy. These issues are compounded by the son's lack of close relationships and difficulties in adapting to a new environment.

• Advice from Justin:
  Justin provides comprehensive advice, emphasizing the need for patience, consistency, and fostering self-esteem. He suggests:

  • Encouraging Self-Belief: Celebrate small achievements to boost the son's confidence.

  • Introducing Male Role Models: Facilitate interactions with positive male figures to provide guidance and mentorship.

  • Being a Friend: Shift from a purely parental role to engaging as a friend to better understand and support the son.

  • Avoiding Criticism: Focus on positive reinforcement rather than nitpicking, which can create friction.

  • Consistent Support: Maintain steady support and create opportunities for the son to feel valued and understood.

Notable Quotes:

• Nick [94:19]: "I'm just struggling with knowing he needs that affirmation."
• Justin [124:41]: "What you and your husband are doing is a noble thing and it's not easy to do."

Conclusion:
Justin underscores the importance of creating a supportive and affirming environment for the teenage son. By building trust, celebrating his interests, and providing consistent emotional support, Nick can foster a stronger, healthier relationship with his son.

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Final Thoughts

Episode E893 of The Viall Files delves into complex relationship dynamics, offering listeners empathetic and practical advice on navigating familial tensions, romantic disconnects, and the challenges of fostering relationships. Through thoughtful discussions and expert insights, host Justin assists callers in finding pathways to healthier and more fulfilling connections.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Sarah [03:15]: "I just feel like it's a recipe for disaster."
• Justin [06:46]: "If you think the aliens are taking over, you’re going to speak up."
• Rachel [23:41]: "He has been kind of withdrawing from me, like, being different."
• Justin [26:46]: "I'm here to say, two to three times a week for any relationship, it's like, job well done."
• Nick [94:19]: "I'm just struggling with knowing he needs that affirmation."
• Justin [124:41]: "What you and your husband are doing is a noble thing and it's not easy to do."

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Key Takeaways:

• Set Clear Boundaries: Prioritize the well-being of significant events like weddings by setting firm boundaries with disruptive individuals.

• Promote Mutual Understanding: In romantic relationships, ensure both partners are willing to adapt and empathize with each other's emotional and physical needs.

• Foster Positive Connections: For foster parents, building trust and celebrating small victories can significantly enhance the bond with foster children, especially teenagers facing personal challenges.

By addressing these aspects thoughtfully, listeners can gain valuable insights into managing and improving various relationship dynamics in their lives.

Transcript

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[Sarah]

Hi, I'm Megan. I'm 34, and I'm afraid a conspiracy theorist is going to ruin my sister's wedding.

[Justin]

How is a conspiracy theorist going to ruin your sister's wedding?

[Sarah]

So the conspiracy theorist is my husband's grandfather. So this is my husband's sister. She's getting married to her partner of ten plus years later this month.

[Justin]

So it's the bride's grandfather.

[Sarah]

Yes, it's the bride's grandfather. Yes.

[Justin]

Okay. Okay. Grandpa. Papa.

[Sarah]

Good old Grandpa. She wanted our advice on whether to uninvite him because they've already RSVP'd yes.

[Justin]

Okay. What is. I'm almost afraid to ask, but what.

[Sarah]

I can give you some. I can give you more background.

[Justin]

What's the conspiracy theory? Is there a specifics and conspiracy theory that she's trying to avoid? Like, short of a lot of people going to this wedding who have a lot of different opinions about a lot of different things, like, why. Why is grandpa a threat?

[Sarah]

So a little bit of background, like, throughout Covid in the last, like, several years, he's really just gone, like, deep into the rabbit hole of, like, dark political conspiracy theories. And we're not talking, like, tinfoil hats or like, that pandas aren't real, but, like, he spends all day, all night, like, online with this extremist misinformation cult, I guess you could say. And so, like, for the first few years, he wasn't, like, so far gone that you couldn't have a regular conversation. And we only really see them like, once or twice a year around the holidays. So we would just kind of deal with it and try to redirect the conversations over time. My in laws would tell us stories about them getting into like screaming matches with them for like hours when nobody else was there. We kind of like brushed it off. We thought it like was somewhat of an exaggeration. But Christmas of 2023, we went over for dinner. Grandpa was back in the room that he stays in all day, all night. He didn't come out until dinner. And something got said that triggered him to start yelling about how he's a reborn alien. The aliens are in charge. The whole, you know, thing about children being trafficked and exploited so that their adrenaline could be taken from them and pumped into celebrities faces to stay young. So it's really like extreme conspiracy theory. A lot of anti Semitic conspiracies. And so you know, really just don't want there to be like a scene at the wedding because it's kind of gotten to the point where he, you can't have like a regular conversation with him anymore.

[Justin]

Sounds dark. Yeah, it's a shame. You know, we live in weird times, but it is.

[Sarah]

And I mean it's sad.

[Justin]

Yeah. And these, these sounds like some crazy, crazy conspiracy theories. Right. Like you mentioned like human trafficking. Right. Like I'm sure like some conspiracy theorists if they. Let's say we're listening. You know, like sadly human trafficking does go on. I don't think it's aliens or people in Hollywood sucking the blood and, and blah blah, blah, all that crazy shit. It kind of reminds me of that. Was that what? That, that. Remember that the, the, the lady who was on the airplane and she's like that motherfucker is not real. And I don't know.

[Sarah]

Yes. All of that is just so dark and there's like, it's sad because there's really no talking sense into anyone. Like they won't even hear it.

[Justin]

So. But to recap the really, you know, we're not here to debate conspiracy theories. Or you could just confirm that everyone in this room doesn't agree with grandpa. But the real concern is that grandpa sounds pretty locked in and pretty, pretty programmed that like you and, and your sister in law and the bride specifically is worried that grandpa could find himself in a convers with God knows who and at any moment accuse someone of being a child trafficking alien and cause a dramatic scene. Okay.

[Sarah]

Yeah, yeah. And I, you know, I think she's, she's torn because she doesn't want to look back and know that one of her living grandparents like wasn't at her wedding, wasn't in photos. But yeah, there's a major concern about causing a scene embarrassing them. And, you know, really like, just the fact that their values and belief systems are like, so 180 opposite that. I just feel like it's a recipe for disaster. And I think she should set some boundaries.

[Justin]

Belief systems, there's like, hey, we voted for this guy and you voted for that guy. And let's just, you know, you know, who gives a fuck? Today, Grandpa's giving, like, you know, he's afraid the aliens are taking over. And if you think the aliens are taking over, you know, you. You're going to speak up. Yeah. You know, you're going to say something. You know, right now, fear is very popular to sell, sadly, and it's being sold to anyone who's willing to listen. Regardless of what side of the aisle you are on, everyone in is trying to convince people aren't in power that they should be afraid of the other side, which is really sad because, you know, I really believe that your grandfather is a victim in this kind of crazy world that, you know, is spewing these types of just crazy things. That being said, if he's that much of a liability, I don't think he should go. I mean, if we really think that Grant, you know, and Grandpa's, like, pretty, you know, how old is how old grandpa? Late 70s, late 70s. And he's like, mobile and like, he's, he's, he's like, of sound mind. I mean, minus his conspiracy theories. He's like, he's not, you know, like, I guess I will, like. Yeah, Natalie's great, you know, Natalie's grandpa. Natalie's grandpa, I mean, he's 90, he's in a wheelchair. You know, regardless of what he believed in, he would have a hard time communicating that. So. And he doesn't believe in it, but, like, grandpa is capable of creating a scene if he wanted to, I guess, is my question.

[Sarah]

Yeah, and I think that that's, like, my concern is I don't think. I don't think there's a way that a scene would not be created at this point given, like, how far gone he is.

[Justin]

And is there anyone in the family who has his ear?

[Sarah]

No, he's just out on. On his own island. And like, it's really pretty sad because he's kind of alienated himself and their grandmother from everyone because he's done this with every different side of the family at this point.

[Justin]

That's crazy.

[Sarah]

I mean, it is crazy. And it's also just so sad because my husband is, like, one of the calmest, most stoic people you've ever met. And last Christmas when this blowup happened, like he even lost it, we left and we did not come back for the rest of the holiday gathering.

[Justin]

And so some of the guys take grandpa's toy away. What if we just disconnected his Internet? I don't know. He lives by himself, right? It's not like he's.

[Unknown]

He.

[Sarah]

Yeah, they. They still live on their own.

[Justin]

What about grandma? If we uninvite Grandma.

[Sarah]

So I think that's the sad part is, yeah, I think she still wants grandma to come. And I think grandma could come alone, but we just don't want to necessarily make her feel, you know, some type of way by is there excluding.

[Justin]

And I'm sure you've already thought of this, but I'm just gonna ask your. His. His son.

[Sarah]

My father in law.

[Justin]

Your father in law, could he go to him and be like, listen, I'm not here to discuss what you believe, that that is your beliefs. But like, my daughter is getting married and we'd love for you guys to be there, but like, we. For God's sake, we cannot have, like, we need you to just mind your business for eight hours. Like, is that possible? Like, grandpa wouldn't.

[Sarah]

He tried. Yeah, he tried and was told to off. So I mean that to me, in itself.

[Justin]

Well, then we just, you know, I think we just.

[Sarah]

The answer that we need.

[Justin]

Yeah, I think you got the answer. I mean, it's not. He's not giving you any. You can't. Can't reason with him. He literally tried and his response was fuck off. I think you just try to do everything you can to bring grandma, but I don't know, like, is this, Is this man gonna like, call the cops and say you kid met my wife? You know, Like, I don't, I don't know.

[Sarah]

I. I don't. Yeah, no, I don't know. I don't think so either. But I, I guess too, like, you know, my husband doesn't want him to come. His dad does not want him to come, but, you know, it's her choice. So like, if she for whatever reason did decide to let him come and he does cause a scene, like, how do you think that should be handled? Well, who should be responsible for removing him?

[Justin]

Probably his dad. Dad. His son, you know, her dad. Yeah. All right. I mean, just out of curiosity, why is the bride still even, you know, considering this?

[Sarah]

I personally don't know. I think she's just so empathetic and she's always trying to like, give people so many chances. And again, just her Other grandmother is ill and not able to come. Her other grandfather is not alive. So I think she's just trying to keep, like, what she can in terms of, like, that family unit there.

[Justin]

Yeah, that's a sad situation. If the bride were here, I would be like, listen, it's your wedding. Do what you want. And if you want to invite Grandpa and Grandpa, at the risk of Grandpa doing his thing, then, you know, you just have to make sure that if that happens, it doesn't ruin anything else. That we all. You kind of. Everyone just kind of like, okay, it's happening. No big deal. Everyone knew this was going to happen. Let's just remove it. Let's not create a scene. Let's move on. What we don't want is the bride to, you know, well, hey, let's just invite him. Because I just want to make sure my grandparents are there, and it's really sad. And then Grandpa does his thing, and then everyone acts like, I can't believe Grandpa did that.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Justin]

You know, and then the rest of the night is focused on, I can't believe Grandpa did that. Like, if we're gonna invite Grandpa, we just have to be prepared for it. We have to assume it's probably gonna happen, and we gotta hope it doesn't happen. If it happens, it's just like, oh, you know, it's like almost as if you scheduled in the wedding itinerary, after we cut the cake, Grandpa's gonna lose his shit. And then we're gonna remove him, and then we're gonna do the. The first dance. You know, you almost have to have that mentality, like, if I'm. That's what I would say to the bride. Because, like, it's almost certainly gonna happen. And if. And listen, if Grandma and Grandpa at your wedding matters more to you than a little drama, let's bring them. Fuck it. Who gives a shit, right? This all comes down to a matter of just perspective and, like, you know, a bride or a groom. Like who? You know, we. We have the term bridezilla, right? Or, like, you know, birthday zilla. Like the, you know, the birthday boy or who. Like, who's this? Like, this is. This party sucks. And I wanted this and I wanted that. So it all comes down to what the bride and groom are expecting their wedding day to be like, right? What are they focused on? Are they focused? You know, Nellie and I were just. We were just like, this is our wedding, and we're focused on us and our connection. And, like, we'll see how the party goes, but we really, like, we hope for the best, but. And it ended up being great. But we just really focused on us. And anything that. I don't even know, half the stuff that might have happened, I really wasn't focused on that. Right. But that. I just. That was the perspective I came in with. Other people who get married, you know, they have get married and, like, they care a lot about the party. They want their chat. Is everyone having fun. And people having fun, is everything going okay? They hear about something that's not going okay, they're like, they start fixing it on their own, and they start freaking out. And the wedding planner is like, no, we got it handled. The bride's always checking in. Is it handled? Is it handled? Is it handled? Like, you know, she. That person is not focused on their wedding. Right. So it really comes down to the bride and groom and what will make their wedding day special. Like, will drama affect their wedding day? Well, like, other people talking about grandpa losing their shit make her feel embarrassed and, you know, stop her from enjoying her wedding day. And those are all valid and, you know, valid reasons, but she just has to. She has to kind of play out the scenarios, and then she has to, like, anticipate what her reaction will be in those scenarios. Because if she is hoping for the best and that hoping for the best is Grandpa doesn't lose his. But knowing that if the. If the best doesn't happen, it could ruin everything, then you definitely don't want grandpa to come. But if hoping for the best is hoping that grandpa doesn't lose a. But, like, if he does, he does would. We'll deal with it. And it's not going to affect the wedding. It will just be something we have to, like, take 10 minutes to handle, you know? Yeah. And.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Justin]

You know, how big is this wedding? Question, Is it huge?

[Sarah]

Probably like 150 people.

[Justin]

Okay. It's big enough. Does everyone know that Grandpa's a little.

[Sarah]

I don't think so. So her future wife's mom is the pastor marrying them. And I don't think a lot of her future wife's family is aware of grandpa and his behavior.

[Justin]

Maybe they should be. I don't know. Listen, we all have family members that are, you know, that are a little fucking crazy. You know, she's not the first, she won't be the last. You know, this seems a fairly extreme example, but, you know, we live in divisive times, and there will be a lot of people at this wedding that are not of like minds, and that's fine. No one should be discussing anything other than the bride and groom. Right. So I think he should probably not be invited. But the bride just needs to understand what she is saying yes to if she invites him and just understand what that looks like. And if she does invite him, she needs to consider the possibility. The best way to avoid an unexpected event at her wedding is to like, I don't know. I don't know if you need to like, blast, you know, tell everyone, but like, I don't know, certain people might need to know. I, I would definitely inform the person doing the ceremony because in those moments that person's in charge. Let's assume in the middle of the ceremony, grandpa stands up and like, goes on his spiel. Right. Mother in law slash, like presider of the wedding could like literally point to someone and like everyone stay, you know, literally, you know, that kind of whole thing that someone does when they're like speaking in front of a room. It would be important for that person to have a heads up about like any situation that could handle. The wedding planner needs to know. Right. If there's a wedding planner, certain people need to be like, on the lookout. Now that is at, at a cost to certain people who would otherwise want to enjoy the wedding. You know, like father of the bride.

[Sarah]

I think that probably it would end up being me that would, you know, sort of be one of these people because my husband is a bridesmaid for his sister. So he's, he'll be preoccupied. Everyone in the immediate family would be preoccupied.

[Justin]

So are you, how capable are you in handling grandpa?

[Sarah]

Oh, I could handle Grandpa. I am not super confrontational, but I think in that moment I would do my best to.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Get him out of.

[Justin]

And if you're asked to do that, it sounds like you're willing to do that. At the risk of like not being able to like, electric slide, you know, or eat all the hors d'oeuvres. Yeah. But I would say I'll do the best I can, you know, like, yeah.

[Sarah]

I think it's fine with me. Like, I'm not super close with them, so I don't, I can look at it a little bit from like an.

[Justin]

Outsider perspective of I think you're better off you in the family, basically giving the bride permission to uninvite grandpa from the perspective of a bride and groom, you know, like, yeah, you're thinking about photos and pictures and things like that. But like, I think there's a difference between saying, I don't think grandpa should come and grandpa's crazy and her dad being like, hey, listen, let's just talk this through. Like, your wedding's gonna be amazing regardless. You know? Like, let's just focus on that. A lot of positive affirmation of the bride. Right. But, like, if you're. If Grandpa doesn't. There. You know, Grandpa's. Honestly, let's. He's a little sick right now. He's not well in the head. And let's just. I know that's hard to say, but, like, the same way, like, grandma can't make it because of her health reasons. Grandpa can't either. And that's sad, but it's okay. And it's not something you're choosing to do easily or, like, that you don't. You. Clearly, we all want him to come, but for the sake of your wedding first and foremost and, like, just peace of mind, I would hate for you to have to enjoy it. And I think it's. You just kind of have to give her permission to uninvite him because it almost feels like, yeah. Everyone's saying, I don't want him to come. I don't want to come, and she has to be the person to, like, save the day and it's her wedding and, you know, like, empathize with the bride on why I would want him there, too. You know, she needs to be given permission to not feel guilty for uninviting her grandpa. And so I would maybe focus more on that because I think we all agree that's the safest way. And, like, also, Grandpa in the pictures. Hey, yeah, it's Grandpa in the picture. You know, remember that time where, you know, like, him in the picture? If he's in the picture, it will be a memory of having to deal with Grandpa.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Justin]

You know?

[Sarah]

Yeah, I totally agree.

[Justin]

I also have not seen the photos of me and my. Now these grandparents from our wedding. I've seen a lot of photos for my wedding. I have not seen those. They do exist, but I haven't seen them. Maybe Natalie has. I don't know.

[Sarah]

They're not at the top of your list.

[Justin]

They're not at the top of the list. So, yeah, I guess that's my takeaway. If you do invite him, basically add that into the program. Grandpa loses his. It's part of the wedding plan. I'm honestly. And if it doesn't happen, great. But if it does, then it won't ruin the wedding because it's. It's. It's been expected.

[Sarah]

Yeah, that's essentially what I'm thinking, too. Just like, if. If it's gonna happen. We can at least plan for it and have some sort of idea of what to do.

[Justin]

But I really think the bride needs to be given permission to not feel guilty about uninviting him. Almost like, you know, it's like, hey, you're not uninviting him. I'm uninviting him. You know, I don't know, you know, but I think she needs to like, whether it's the pictures kind of reminding her that like there's gonna be hu. Hundreds of pictures that might not. That won't be the one that you're focused on. Two, if that if, if he gets into a picture because there's no guarantee you invite him and even makes it to the pictures, that if he makes it to the pictures, it's going to be a reminder of, of where grandpa was at at this time. Maybe grandpa is better remembered when he wasn't believing in blood sucking aliens.

[Sarah]

I totally agree.

[Justin]

Anyway, sorry you're dealing with this. It's a, it's a. It sucks. But yeah, I, I think we try to give the bride a clean conscience for not having grandpa at the wedding. And if that's not possible, then it's her wedding. She can invite him.

[Sarah]

Yeah, that sounds good. That's what we'll do.

[Justin]

All right, thanks for the call.

[Sarah]

All right, thanks.

[Justin]

Take care.

[Unknown]

Bye.

[Justin]

Bye. Bye.

[Rachel]

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[Justin]

We'Re a couple of months into 2025. You've heard me talking about my wellness goals. I've stayed away from sugar, but also I've been trying to get the supplements and nutrients I need this year because I just want to be my best self. And I'm doing that in part with the help of the great people at Symbiotic. It's important to know what you're putting in your body with your vitamins and supplements. And that's why we are absolutely obsessed with Symbiotica. Symbiotica makes it easy to maintain healthy habits all year round. Though travel size packets are perfect for on the go, we are often on the go. And nothing ruins my like vitamin routine more than traveling. Before I got Symbiotica because those individual packs that they make make it so easy and convenient to stay on those.

[Rachel]

Routines and they taste so good, which is so rare for a lot of products in this realm. They have a formula for your health goals, whether it is energy or mood boosting, improving digestion, anti aging, brain power. The easiest thing you can do is keep up with your health. And Symbiotica is the easiest way to do that. Symbiotica is just as clean as it gets. No seed oils, preservatives or artificial junk. Just high quality, real ingredients that actually do something. Symbiotica Wellness made simple.

[Justin]

Go to symbiotica.com v I l l for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com v I a l l that's spelled C Y-M B I O T I K A.com v I a l l for 20 off plus free shipping. How's it going?

[Unknown]

Good. My name's Rachel, I'm 26 and I'm wondering how I get my boyfriend to care about my feelings.

[Justin]

Why? What do you mean? Your boyfriend doesn't care about your feelings?

[Unknown]

Yeah. So for context, we dated in high school for six years and then we broke up for about six years. I joined the military and we reconnected over the summer when I was home on vacation. So we are long distance, but with his job he can come spend like winter months with me. So he was here for three months over the winter and during that time we kind of figured out that we have, like, vastly different sex drives, whereas he wants to, you know, have sex every day. And I'd be fine with, like, two to three times a week. But around the time that we got together, I increased my dose of my antidepressant. And with that, I've noticed that I, like, definitely, like, I don't even think about sex. It's not even on my radar. And I know that that's a problem for sure. So while he was here, we kind of realized that we, you know, this is going to be a problem in our relationship that we need to address. So I told him, you know, this is something that I'm going to work on with my doctor, but it doesn't change overnight. And I just kind of noticed that during this time, he has been, like, kind of withdrawing from me, like, being different, like, not treating me as he used to. And so it was kind of like a point of tension the entire time he was here for the three months he left in January. The night before he left, we went out on a date, and I asked him, I was like, oh, can you lean in and be sweet and soft towards me, you know, until you leave tomorrow? And he was like, are we really going to have this conversation again?

[Justin]

What was the conversation that you were trying to have that he felt like he had multiple times?

[Unknown]

Yeah, it had just been a, like, a topic of conversation, you know, the entire time that he was here with, you know, me going to my doctors and trying to find, like, a different medication that'll work. And every time that, you know, we would have, like, a discussion of everything, it always came back to, well, you. He would say to me, you want an emotional connection, I want a sexual connection. And I don't feel like I'm getting what I need. And so in turn, like, you know, understandably, like, you're not getting what you need from me. And so it had kind of been like, you know, we talked about it a lot, and it was definitely something that we both knew needed to be worked on. But, you know, my medication, I can only do so much so fast. And so he said that comment, and I let it go because I wanted to have enjoy our last night night together. And then a few hours later, we were on the way home, and he's driving, and I lean into him and I say, you know, like, oh, I just want you to be soft with me, you know, like, I. I miss that side of you. And he kind of, you know, he got upset, and he was like, you act like I beat you. You act Like, I'm mean to you. You act like I'm doing something intentionally to hurt you, and that's not what I'm doing.

[Justin]

Well, what is. What does he think he's doing?

[Unknown]

And he. And that's. So when we get into, like, more, you know, more of it. He, up until very recently, wouldn't really acknowledge his fault in anything. Or, like, his. The fact that he had been treating me differently. He hadn't been the partner that. That I had grown to know him to be. And he didn't really. He wouldn't really acknowledge that and kind of just made me feel like it was in my head. So we get home and we don't really say. Like, that conversation didn't go anywhere. I was kind of taken aback because that's not. He's not very confrontational. And so I was kind of didn't really know what to say. So we got home, and it's, you know, late. So I shower, I get in bed, and he just stays out on the couch, which is not normal. And I asked him, I FaceTime him after about an hour, and I'm like, hey, are you gonna come to bed? And he's like, well, what for? And I was like, what do you mean, what for? And he was silent, didn't say anything. So I get upset. I hang up the phone and I just roll over. I go to bed. The next morning, we wake up and he's in bed with me. And we're just like, scrolling on our phones. And I was like, is this really how we're gonna spend our last day together? You know, mind you, I'm not gonna see him probably until at least June, possibly August. So this is a long time that we're not.

[Justin]

What month are we in?

[Unknown]

January. He left January 10th.

[Justin]

You're not going to see him all until August?

[Unknown]

Yes, sir. Yes. With his job. He's working. He's a commercial diver.

[Justin]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Unknown]

So, yeah, so he and I live in the desert, so he's, you know, he couldn't even move his job out here. That's another point of conversation in our relationship, too. It's like it's always going to be long distance. Even if I were to move to where he is, he's always out on remote job.

[Justin]

Two questions before you keep going.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Justin]

How long have you guys been together? And how old is he?

[Unknown]

So we're both 26, and this time we're. We've only been together since May of last year. Okay, so it's been like eight months.

[Justin]

And how'd you get together while he was diving?

[Unknown]

So when we dated in high school, we dated for six years until I left when I was 19 to join the military. And I lived with him and his mom. So his mom was like my mom. And so I had always stayed in touch with her. So I was visiting her when I was home over the summer. And I had saw him for the first time since I left when we were 19, and it was like no time had passed. And a week later, he was here visiting, and. Yeah, okay.

[Justin]

All right. Anyways, continue.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So he.

[Unknown]

We spend the whole day, his last day, in silence. And, oh, earlier in the morning when we woke up, and I said, you know, is this how we're going to spend our last day? He says, how else would you rather spend it? And I explained, you know, I feel like we're, you know, at least on my end, like, we don't feel like our normal selves. I feel like this is. I don't want to end our trip this way. And he said that he didn't really feel like there was anything that we needed to talk about.

[Justin]

I'm assuming that he just was really hoping to have sex before he left. Right? Like, that's right.

[Unknown]

And I. And of course. And I had. That's. I had every intention of, you know, like, sucking it up. I want to. Like, I get it. Like, you know, I had every intention of doing that, but I. And another thing that we had talked about previous while he was here is like, he wasn't really creating an environment where that was something I wanted to be doing anyways. Like, you're kind of being cold, withdrawn. Like, medicine aside, you're not really, like, making me want to have sex with you.

[Justin]

Anyway, you. Before we started recording, you had told Justin and I that your boyfriend knows you're calling in and is supportive of you doing this and that you made it seem like you both have listened to this program before. Is that accurate?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Justin]

What do you think he thinks is going to be said on this call? And what do you think he thinks I'm going to say?

[Unknown]

So he said. It's so funny. He said that he. He doesn't really feel like we've listened. I mean, I listen to you every week, and he doesn't feel like he's ever heard you give bad advice. So he's like, you know, maybe I'm having blind spots because I'm in it that he can kind of, you know, shed light on. Or, you know, maybe he says that he kind of feels like you just Help people naturally get to where they're kind of already going.

[Justin]

So he. He is open to being wrong?

[Unknown]

I think so, yes. I haven't felt that way in the past. I've told him, I'm like, I feel like you think you're perfect and that, like, it's all, you know. Because he multiple times has said, like, you're letting your head get away from you. Like, this is just your anxiety. And it feels to me like he's using it as a cop out. Yeah.

[Justin]

So.

[Unknown]

But, I mean, it seems like he's definitely. He's excited to hear what you have to say. For sure. Although he was unwilling to get on the call too.

[Justin]

But you asked him? Yeah.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Justin]

Why was he so unwilling? He's like, is he, like, available? Like, is. He's not like, underwater right now?

[Unknown]

No, he's not underwater. He is home. We were actually FaceTiming before we got on the call, and I said, well, what if he asked me to call you? And he's like, oh, I know you're doing it. I just won't answer.

[Justin]

It's a shame. He really should get on. What's he so afraid of? Texting? Oh, you can't text him when you're on airplane mode, can you? Nick says, what are you so afraid of?

[Unknown]

I will text him. No. And it's so funny that you say that, because I told him. I was like, he's gonna want to know why you're not getting on the call if you're so supportive.

[Justin]

I mean, listen. Yeah. So after you text him, I'm GLAD he's only 26. If you would have said, oh, he's 35, I would have been like, Jesus. So I'm cutting him a little slack because he's younger.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Justin]

I'm trying to put myself in I, you know, my very first relationship that. My real relationship, you know, like, as a really young man, I mean, I was, I don't know, 20. I was in my early 20s. In my early 20s, you know, but there were times, you know, like you said, he wants to have sex every day. And I'm. I'm comfortable with two to three days a week. And I understand that was maybe before you started taking your antidepressant medication and changing your mood swings. But, like, I'm here to say, two to three times a week for any relationship, it's like, job well done. Like, that's. It's really great.

[Unknown]

That's what I thought, too.

[Justin]

Yeah. And Listen, as a 26 year old, healthy young man, you Know his desires of every day. No judgment. Totally get it. He's not alone there either. And, you know, he seems like he's physically very attracted to you, so yay for. For. For that. But yeah, like, every, Every day. Granted, yours is a. You know, I'm sure he might say, well, I don't get to see her that much, and we get to, you know, three months out of the year and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like, you know, on, on. On some levels, I understand his plight, but like, this is the relationship you both chose to be in. It has these restrictions. Compromises do need to be made sure on some level, but like, hey, you need to give it up four, five, six, seven days a week, you know, to make up for lost. That's just not a realistic solution to, like, an unavoidable problem. And that unavoidable problem is that you guys get to see each other three to four months out of the year and in pockets, not even, like, spread out, it sounds like. So that sucks. And like having sex three times in one day and. And 10 times in a week, it's. It isn't gonna help you in May when you're not in this. You know what I'm saying? Right. So, like.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Justin]

I guess all I'm saying is I can understand. I remember in my first relationship where I felt like there was a disconnect between us in terms of the expectation of how physical we were. Right. And, you know, I, I think she had less of a drive than I had or whatever. You know, where I have a problem with your boyfriend's response is him acknowledging, like, you want an emotional connection and I want a physical one. Now, in any relationship, hopefully there are both. We know the, the limitations of your relationship in general, your long distance creates a challenge for your physical relationship because, well, you can't actually physically touch and be intimate that way. And emotional connection, while somewhat limited, you know, that's why, like, that's why a lot of people can start long distance relationships, because early on, you know nothing about each other. Like, when Natalie and I met, you know, she was living in Savannah, Georgia. It almost like, helps you build that emotional connection faster. When everyone's excited about the physical aspect, especially if you're both attracted to each other, the distance creates that space, that forced space. And it's like, well, all I have left is to talk and communicate and text, and maybe you're sending pictures and maybe you're kind of making things steamy that way or whatever. But, like, that. That allows people to really get to know each other because they're forced to talk, because it's, that's all they have. And so you are able to in a lot of ways advance an emotional connection long distance, even when you don't have a physical one. To that end, I'm sure he feels like we already like have the emotional connection down because that's the only thing we get to do when I'm not home with you. He probably wants to make up for the lost time, but for him to say that to you implies that he's not that interested in emotional connection and that the desire for an emotional connection is just one sided and he needs to understand. And this is where I cut him some slack that he does. He, quite frankly, like, like as someone who grew up with a lot of sisters and someone who grew up with a great relationship with their mom my entire adult life, even from when I was 18 and earlier, I always felt like I was a man who paid attention to the considerations of women, who, who was a gentleman who, you know, understood women's plights, you know, but he has a lot to learn, you know, and I had a lot to learn, you know, even though I felt like I probably knew more than my peers, you know, or, or men my age, I don't know who, if he's comparing himself, but he just needs to, he needs to understand. Like that statement alone suggests he has a lot to learn.

[Unknown]

Right? No, and I completely agree with everything, everything that you said. I feel like for me, like it's, it's, it's beyond the sex of it because I feel like I can get that, you know, taken care of. Like obviously we're still going to have different drives and that's, you know, like I, I want to have sex more than I'm wanting to have sex right now. So that's something that I know that we can find a solution to. It's more so for me now, like how he's handled the situation.

[Justin]

He's turned you off, he's like giving you the ick.

[Unknown]

Exactly. And he's said things to me since then because we've kind of talked in circles about it since he left, that I'm just like kind of stunned. It doesn't really feel like the person that I thought I was in a relationship with, you thought, you know, you.

[Justin]

Felt that way or he felt that way.

[Unknown]

I felt, I feel currently and at the time that I don't feel like I'm with person that he portrayed to me that he was in the beginning where we at One point we were on FaceTime talking about, you know, the whole situation, and I told him. I was like, I just feel like you don't care. And it was a bit of a heightened, you know, conversation. And he was like, I don't care. Like, I don't care to talk about this. I don't care, you know, to continue having this conversation. And I said, well, then what's the point? Like, why am I.

[Justin]

Why is he. So you're describing someone who is getting triggered and gets upset and elevates their emotions when this. When this topic comes up. And I'm. Why do you think that is? Like, I mean, I get he's disappointed about not having sex, but, like, why is he taking it personally? Does he believe so does he. Do you think he believes you?

[Unknown]

And that's the hard thing. He. He has said that he has a hard time being empathetic, and he's never had mental health struggles, so he doesn't know what it's like to, you know, for the medication to affect you in. In these ways. And he has a hard time, you know, empathizing with.

[Justin]

Does he. Has he been drunk before? Does your boyfriend drink whiskey?

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Justin]

Yes, he does. Has he ever experienced whiskey dick?

[Unknown]

No. And he. And that's another thing. I tried to create an environment, like, okay, well, what about when we're older and maybe you have a hard time, you know, getting it up or what if I'm postpartum and I can't have sex for a while? Like, is this how you're going to in those situations? Yeah, I just.

[Justin]

What does he say?

[Unknown]

He, you know, was very flippant like, that. I'm not gonna not be able to, you know, just arrogant about that and then said that he would understand because it's postpartum. And I'm like, so if you can understand that, why can't you understand this? Or at least try to give me grace and time to, you know, he's.

[Justin]

Your boyfriend's actions and the thing he's saying and the way you're describing suggests that he doesn't believe that it's the medication that's causing your lack of sex drive, you know, whether your boyfriend's experienced whiskey dick or not. But, like, it's. It doesn't take a rocket science scientist. And I don't think any adult human who has the ability to empathize in general would have a hard time understanding that medication can affect. Has. That medication has side effects. That's. That's what we're talking about. We're talking about a side effects of a medication you're taking now. I hope he recognizes that side effects are a thing of medication. So, like, that's just like a common sense thing that he needs to get on board with, I would think. But I'm guessing he, he understands that premise. So the second question is, is like, does he think you need to be on medication to deal with your depression? That seems a little more least believable because people do have a hard time empathizing with depression if they don't have to deal with depression, because everyone deals with being sad. And people who don't deal with depression, I'm guessing, equate sadness to depression. And then. But who have never felt depressed, and then they're like, well, if I'm sad, I just do this and that and I get myself over it and I kind of move on and I just, you know, work through it. Right. And he is. Sounds like. My guess, My guess is he's having a hard time empathizing with your depression, you know.

[Unknown]

Right. And I, I definitely could agree with that. And I feel like he feels rejected too, which obviously I totally understand. But I feel like I've been so communicative and like, it has nothing to do with my feelings for you, my attraction to you. Like, I have tried being affectionate in other ways. And, you know, just in the meantime, it have been very verbal. Like, hey, this is something that I do feel is short term, and it's more so for me now. Like, he, I ended up sending him a screenshot of. I had this album on my phone of like, cute things that he had said to me because I was like, you know, I, like, I had so many pinch me moments in the beginning of our relationship. Like, how is this real life? And he sent me this one text about how, you know, I haven't had the easiest life. Obviously I was living with people that weren't my parents when I was 14 years old, you know, so he said, you know, I don't want you to ever have to be alone in anything, or I want to be the person that you can come to and be vulnerable with and we can figure it out together. Like, you'll never be alone again. And I sent him that screenshot and I was like, this is what I mean, like, what happened to this? This doesn't feel like the same person. And he literally said to me, it was easy to say those things when it was okay to touch you.

[Justin]

I mean, you know, I am surprised he, he's heard this podcast and, and.

[Unknown]

Truly, there's some of the things he said to me. I've just been like. I mean, I'm just blown away. Like, I, you know, I. Yeah. And he just keeps. I mean, it sounds like my mental.

[Justin]

Health, you know, Physical touch is clearly his love language.

[Unknown]

Right?

[Justin]

Good for him. And he has a desire he hasn't, you know, listen, he clearly, his needs aren't being met. But I hope holding hands and cuddling is. Is at least does something for him. If physical touch. Physical touch isn't just blowjobs.

[Unknown]

Thank you.

[Justin]

I mean, they're as nice as they may be. But like, my opinion, and this is just my opinion as a man who's only dated women, like, yes, everyone wants to have sex, right? Everyone wants to feel desired by their partner. And it's no one's job to put out in a relationship. But like, listen, if a relationship that both people have an expectation of physical intimacy, if that's not being met, like, yeah, there's a disconnect and things need to be addressed and handled. But because we're talking about the act of sex and we're taught, you know, and with that comes the act of consent and things like that both parties needed consent. It's like, it gets a little weird when you start demanding your partner, like, perform if they don't feel up for it physically.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Justin]

That's just my opinion. I hope. You know, I don't know. I feel like it's. I think it's opinion shared by many. An emotional connection is like, Is necessary for any real relationship. You can fuck anyone. You know, hookup culture is proving that, like, people are out there just right having sex. It's like, easy to have sex with a stranger. It is impossible to emotionally connect with one, you know, and anyone in a. In a relationship where two people claim they want to build on something and like you, you truly need an emotional connection. And every man out there needs to understand that is probably more important to their women partners than it is to them. But it doesn't make it any less important for the relationship. And to your point, whether it's depression in the short term, whether it's postpartum, whether it's just like you both getting older and your body's changing and happen and life happening, and I promise, you know, you're, you know, he will rule the day 15, you know, if, God forbid, you guys work through this problem and you're still together 20 years later, and maybe you're just like, you're wanting to get some action and he's Just like, I don't know, I'm a little tired, my deck's a little lazy, and I'm not up for it. He'll remember this conversation. Women, I feel like, maintain their sex drive much longer and for, you know, than men. But like, not that, you know, not, not, you know, it just, It'll be different. It won't be every day. He will not.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Justin]

He just, he seems like, I'm just tired.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Justin]

You know, but like, it's just my big prop. But all that jokes aside, it's just like, if your boyfriend truly believes that it is fair to withhold physic emotional intimacy and an emotional connection until he gets a physical one, then your relationship's doomed.

[Unknown]

Right?

[Justin]

And he is incapable of being in a serious relationship, especially a long distance one, you know, and for him to essentially hijack an emotional connection and hold that hostage because he's not getting what he needs, you know, I, I just forget about who's right or who's wrong. There's no way this relationship's going to flourish. And like, men, I think we're just talking in circles. Yeah, you're just talking in circles. And like, you know, listen, it's a. Again, part of it is his disconnect of like, there's something. Even if he says he believes you, his actions say otherwise because it shouldn't be like, I get it, he must think you're hot and beautiful and, you know, he's doing his diving thing and boy, like, you know, I don't know. And maybe it sounds. He, he kind of, I'm guessing his career, his profession is very like, he's, he's, he's working with a lot of rigid, rough men, I'm guessing.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Justin]

And I'm guessing they're all coming back with their stories about having all this sex with their wives or girlfriends or women or prostitutes who got. Who knows, right? And he's, he comes back me, like, I had sex twice in three months and my girlfriend, like, hates having sex with me. So, like, I can get where he's coming from. I, I can, but it does. It definitely doesn't make him right. He can have a reason to feel upset, but it doesn't make him right in the context of this relationship, you know, and maybe he's not caring about what his friends are. Are thinking or saying, but I'd be there. There's a lot going into why he's acting the way he is.

[Unknown]

Exactly. I can totally understand, like, why he would be feeling that way for me and, and kind of like you said, I told him, well, if that's, if sex is like the most important thing to you and that is what you're after, you can get that anywhere. Like, you don't need to be entertaining a long term relationship where there's going to be the ebbs and the flows to it. You can just, you know, you can get that anywhere. And you know, he says that he's after a long term relationship and he wants to have a family, he wants to have, you know, a wife and kids. I just don't feel like maybe nine.

[Justin]

At 26 things, you know, I mean to be clear, his current job and I don't know how long he plans on doing this and him Quite honestly being 26 isn't conducive to develop and grow a long distance relationship. On the flip side, I could argue that maybe he would disagree. You know, I would love to have him here, you could tell me. But I also wouldn't shock me if a lot of the guys he works with are in committed relationships because the lifestyle in general is challenging and it makes it difficult to like date around, you know, things like that. I mean, you know, his job probably makes it hard for him to be a fuckboy if, even if, even if he wanted to you and so he probably enjoys the companionship that you offer when he's out there diving. It's just that he is right, you know, expecting. I don't think there's, I don't know if there's another word for it that to, to get laid when he's home. But I would argue or guess at least that his desire to be in a relationship is a little selfish because one, I mean we already know he's, he's, he's like, well, if you're not going to give me this, I'm not going to give you that. He's negotiating with you, right? That is not the actions of someone who's just like fully committed to being in this relationship. And just like I love you, I choose you, I hope you choose me. And let's promise that we'll always figure it out. We'll always, you know, when we feel disconnected, we'll try to connect. Obviously you two are disconnected. You're trying, right? You're at least what you're telling me, your version of the story is that you're trying to find ways to connect with him. And your version of the story is he is just like, no, you know.

[Unknown]

I'm, and I will say too like, because you know, he is obviously very Supportive of me being here. Like, I went over what I was going to talk about, and he. Everything that I'm saying to you, he completely agreed with. He was like, yep. Like, that's. Up until recently, though, he didn't, he wouldn't really acknowledge that he was treating me different. He just said that, you know, he wasn't getting what he needed, so it was, was harder for him to connect with me. He. But then on Thursday, I, I, last week, I told him that, you know, I'm kind of feel like I'm at the end of my rope. Like, I feel like I'm giving everything that I can and I'm not really getting anything back. And we're just talking in circles. We're not getting anywhere. And that's when he kind of, he says it was a coincidence. To me, it feels like he was like, oh, okay, let me, you know. But then he was like, all right, let me, you know, I have been treating you differently out of spite because I was feeling rejected. Let me be different. Let me, you know, show up for you. And so for the past five or six days, he's been, you know, like, more attentive. I feel like, for me, I'm, I'm now scared, though, because it's like, okay, who, who really are you? Is this is how you have been the past, you know, two months, who you are, and that's how you handle conflict, and that's how you will continue to handle conflict? Is this just you putting on a show because you want the companionship while you're out there? You want to have someone to text and, you know, to feel like you have somebody to come home to. But so I, he feels like now I'm. I have walls up, which I do. I'm scared now that I don't know which part of him I'm going to get if I'm having, you know, if we're going through a hard time.

[Justin]

Well, that's interesting that you say that because, like, I, I, I, you know, I think power dynamics shift greatly in relationships all the time, you know, and I think subtle ones. Right. You know, sometimes I think if people are honest with themselves, even in healthy relationships, usually, hopefully the healthiest of the healthiest of relationships, you both feel like you're on equal footing. No one's abandonment issues are being triggered, you know, and you wake up feeling like you're choosing your partner as much as they're choosing you. And there's not a lot of thoughts on that. But even generally healthy relationships don't operate that way, you know, there are moments where, you know, my abandonment issues might be triggered for some reason. I don't know. And maybe I'm feeling just generally a little insecure. And that general insecurity might, like, like, reveal itself as, you know, a certain way around Natalie, you know, or. Or am I just like, you know, we're pretty good at communicating at this point where I might just need a little more affection from her. I don't. I don't know. You know, and certainly vice versa. Right. And so there's a power dynamic shift often in relationships, and whoever is feeling more insecure or is being triggered by whatever abandoned issue they have, that other person, whether they know it or not, has more power. Right. Your boyfriend wasn't feeling. For whatever reason, your boyfriend, it's the way you're describing it towards the end of his, you know, stint at. Wasn't feeling insecure. He was just mad. He was angry, he was frustrated. He didn't know why his girlfriend didn't want to have sex with him. And he dealt with his feelings through anger, you know, And I'm guessing that some of the things he said like, well, you know, I knew that before I could touch you and blah, blah, that all sounds like he's angry. Right. You know, but now, the way you're describing it, now he's gone, right? Now having the sex with you is. Unless, I mean, he can't even have sex with you. He's not there. So immediately less of a priority for him. Right. Even subconsciously.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Justin]

You know, I'm sure he still wants to have sex with you whenever he comes back, but, like, now it's off the table. It's a concern he really doesn't have to bother with until August. Right? And now you're still upset about how he treated you at the tail end of that relationship, and you're questioning things. You're like, I know this is crazy. I don't know this. And now he's hearing you question things, and now that his, like, desire or need to have sex with you is off the table, it's less of a priority. That anger is going away, and it's being replaced with a little more clarity about him being a dick. Yes. And now you're questioning things, and now he's just like, holy shit. Again, I don't think he's appreciated what you've brought to him in this relationship while you're not together. And I'm willing to guess, and I know very little about this relationship, but I'm willing to guess he doesn't appreciate it. But you do. You offer that companionship, that person to reach out to every day to talk through things. I bet where he works, it can be pretty. Does he just generally work with a bunch of, like, rough men? Constantly. 24, 7.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Is he, like, off into the seas on a rig or whatever, doing crazy?

[Unknown]

And so he, like, often doesn't have phone service, and he's just with, like, five or six dudes.

[Justin]

Having a girlfriend on the outside, I bet is awesome for, you know, for people. It's like, it gives you something that.

[Unknown]

It definitely gives me more because that's something else that I've brought to him as I was like, I feel like the only thing you value in this relationship is sex. And even with him being gone, yes, obviously it's off the table, but he still expects, like, a certain. Like, you know, he wants the pictures, he wants that. And I get it, like, craving that. That part of the relationship, and Which I was definitely open to and more receptive to, you know, before he came out here and when we were in a better place and now before, he was just not that kind of right. And so he, you know, I told him, I was like, I feel like the only thing that you kind of want out of this relationship, appreciate out of the relationship is sex. And I feel like I bring so much more. And he's been like, well, like, what? And, you know, I obviously saying this.

[Justin]

You saying this now, or he said.

[Unknown]

That then since he's been gone within the last few weeks, that's crazy behavior. Thank you. And some of the things he says, I told him just like how you just said, too, you know, I'm choosing to be with you just as much as you're choosing to be with me. And it doesn't really feel like you appreciate that because of the things that you're saying and how cold you're being. It feels like you think that you can do anything and I'll still be here, and that's not the case.

[Justin]

That's a crazy thing to say to someone, even out of anger. But if he really believes that, why is he dating you?

[Unknown]

Exactly. And I told him I was like, you. You know, you're attractive. Like, you. You know, you can get. Get sex anywhere. Like, it doesn't have to be where there's, like, all. Like, it doesn't have to be this difficult for you if that's all that you're after. But then he goes back saying he wants that emotional connection to that relationship.

[Justin]

I don't doubt, though, I. I believe that. But why he. I. I very much believe that. I think he doesn't appreciate how much. Yeah, he doesn't appreciate it, and I don't think he really believes it. And I don't know. Like, if nothing else, his willingness to say some of these things to you, at best are just cruel because he's upset and he's trying to hurt your feelings, and that's just mean. Or worse, he actually believes it. And this is like. Then he sounds like a guy who just objects if I objectifies women.

[Unknown]

So it's like, neither are good. And that's what I told him. I was like, you know, neither are good. But I mean, this is just, you.

[Justin]

Know, neither are good.

[Unknown]

To be clear for sure scenario. Sorry. Is that, you know, this is just you acting out of character because you're upset, and even that's not good. Or this is, like, who you actually are. And then, of course, like, that's not the person that I want to be with. And so now I'm just. We're kind of at a, as he would say, a stalemate. Like, I don't. We're just kind of like, you know, now he's trying and I'm scared.

[Justin]

And when you say he's trying. Has he apologized for some of these mean things he said? I mean, you reviewed them with him. You, you know, like, literally before this call, you're like, hey, I'm going to talk about X, Y, and Z. Just. Just to review you. I'm just going to bring up some of the things he said to me, and he's like, yeah, that seems accurate. He's not, like, alarmed, but he's like, wow, was a dick. I mean, listen, in the heat of the moment, we all can be dicks. You know, sometimes we say things to the people we love the most, and we don't even realize how cruel it comes across. And sometimes we have to cool down, time has to pass, and then we have to say, I'm sorry I was an asshole. That's normal. But, like, exactly.

[Unknown]

And I've definitely had those moments, too, in these conversations where I have, you know, gotten heated and I say something and then I go back and I'm like, hey, like, I'm sorry that I got to that point. That was disrespectful. That's not my intention. But even in, like, talking about it earlier today, when. When, you know, we've been in, like, an okay place and he's putting in effort now, he was like, yep, that all sounds, you know, that's that's what happened. And I said like, I'm worried, baby. This is making you kind of look not the best. And he was like, yeah, I mean it's, you know, it's. I said those things like he never has once been like, well, I'm glad he said that.

[Justin]

I'm glad he's owned up to it. But I'm just more like, it doesn't sound great. Yeah.

[Unknown]

And it's leaving me not knowing like what to do or if. Because a little more context. I have a 4 year old son and I spent a long time trying to make that relationship work with his dad when I just wasn't. It wasn't a relationship I should have been in. And so I feel like I'm a little bit now, now that I've seen, like, okay, this isn't really, you know, some signs of someone that I want to be with. I feel like I'm more ready to just be like, all right, you know.

[Justin]

Yeah. I mean he's your, your, your, your boyfriend is not giving you anything to work with. Almost nothing.

[Unknown]

Thank you.

[Justin]

As a young man, as a 26 year old man, I would just say to him if he was lit, it's just like, I don't want him to be nice to you just to get laid. But hell, man, if all he was, was just like held your hand and showed a little affection and maybe got you flowers or just like acted or even if he pretended and I don't want him to have to pretend, like, he probably would have got a little action. But like what? You know, like again, he needs to understand that like we all, as human beings, we always need to feel taken care of emotionally. We need to feel loved. We need to feel like our partner isn't going to abandon us. We need to feel like we can be our most vulnerable selves with our partners. You know, that's the joy of being in a real relationship that like when you come home, your most comfortable, your sanctuary, you don't have to put on an act. You can be yourself. Now, that doesn't mean be an. That doesn't mean be gross and disgusting and with the toilet open. But like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you can generally be yourself. You can show some of your cracks and weaknesses and insecurities with your partner and not worry about and know that they love you. You, you know, right. And that's like necessary.

[Unknown]

And that's where I feel like it's, it's ne. That's like you can, what do you have if you don't have that. And I told him with this, like, you know, and I don't feel like. Yes, okay. The. The initial thing that started, that all of this is stemming from is that I'm taking medication that is, you know, causing you to have, you know, sexual dysfunction. Yes, that is the problem. But now, like, there's so much outside of it where I've told him. I don't. I feel like if I don't show up as my best or in the way that you want me to or you expect me to, it's not enough for you.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So then I feel like I have to put on, like, this. I can't just be. And that's not. It's just. It's so crazy to me how far different we are now from where we were. And what. Like, it's just.

[Justin]

I mean, you need to let go of the honeymoon phase that you were in and. And how magical it was when you guys got back together, because, you know, everyone is their best self, and everyone, like, he. You guys were having sex more, you know, and you were more intimate, and you weren't going with what you're going through now. But things have changed. As in every relationship, things change. Right. And right now, your boyfriend is demonstrating behaviors that tell you that when things change that don't go his way, he will not compromise or be there for you. He will just be angry and upset and expect you to fix the problem and get back to where things were so he can continue to be happy again. That. That is the actions that he's demonstrating, which is.

[Unknown]

You said that perfectly. Yes.

[Justin]

So he's not giving you much to work with now. Like, again, like, I would want for him to now be like, I really shouldn't have talked to you that way. I'm really sorry. I'm just very frustrated. Like, you know, I just. Sometimes I get insecure about, like, you know, you're attracted to me. Obviously, I'm not going to see you for the next eight months. I didn't handle myself the best way. I'm, you know, like, you should. Should be getting that right now. If you're not getting that, that's concerning. That's like. And you can't teach. You know, I'm cutting up some slack because he's only 26, but he's not 18, and he should know better. And I'm going to cut him a little bit more slack because, you know, he's certainly, like, his surroundings are not. I. I'm guessing. I'm guessing a lot of his. His workplace conditions aren't promoting culture of like, pro women or just like, I don't know, it doesn't have to be pro women, just more like, you know, just like, not a, you know, locker room talk aside like hanging out with your boys. But like, I, I don't. He's just maybe not getting the best role models when it comes to like a healthy relationship or a healthy relationship with women in general or just an empathetic man towards the plight of like, things that women might go through. Fine. That's his choice he's making. And I don't care if you're on an island with a bunch of like, rough men. He has the Internet and like, no one has the excuse to like, isolate themselves and become ignorant if they want to learn and educate themselves. So at best, your boyfriend is, is talking as if he's a bit ignorant about like, how women are in relationships or what their needs are. And, and if you're expecting someone to just be a concubine and have sex with you when you're ready, you know, then, then that's not what you want and that. And if that's what he wants, then God bless him, you know, like, you know, I'm sure he can find it, like you said.

[Unknown]

Yeah, so I'm just, I'm left with. I don't, like, I want to give him the. I don't feel like I've given it everything. Like, I feel like this is the first, you know, we've only been together about like, eight months. You know, I don't. This is our first kind of hurdle that I would like to see us get over. And, you know, this is like, you know, the hard times in a relationship is when you get to show how you can show up for your partner.

[Justin]

Yeah, but he's not showing. Yeah, but I, I would just caution you right now. Yes, you have to get through hard times. You know, people can get through devastating times. They can, you know, people have gotten through betrayals and things like that. But like, let's say if someone's betrayed someone trust, a violation was happened in a relationship. People have gotten through that because there's contrition, there's regret, there's, you know, there's the realization that they fucked up. There's the desire to make changes. You know, a lot of people fall short of all those promises and changes and things like that. But at least there's that, you know, and that's a starting point of fixing the problem, is an acknowledgement that there was a problem Right. And again, your boyfriend is just kind of acknowledging that you have a problem and that your problem is both of your problems. But he doesn't really see the problem with how he is handling this whole situation. And that's the biggest problem.

[Unknown]

Right? I, yeah, I completely agree.

[Justin]

And so I guess I would just caution you. It's like you don't get any medals or you know, like, just because it's your first big fight doesn't mean you have like, I mean you can break up or stay together as long as you want. Right? But like there's no, there's no playbook out there that says you get four fights for free, Right? It's silly to ever break up before four fights because like everyone has at least 100 fights. Right? That's silly. What are those fights about? You know, what are you talking about? You have to figure out is this a fight over a non negotiable or is this a fight over like our pet peeves? I would argue that's a fight over a non negotiable. You're not, you know, he might think, well, my non negotiable is like, I want to have a partner who wants to have sex with me. Fair enough. I guess on its face that's makes some sense. Your negotiable is like I want a partner who shows up for me when I'm not my best self, when I'm struggling with mental health problems or like when I just, you know, when I'm, I want my partner to believe me when I tell him my body's going through something. And like, as a man, he needs to understand if he wants to be in a relationship with a woman, that his body is not the same as your body and that your body might experience a lot different types of emotions and feelings that his body may never feel. And the feelings that his body feels like, hey, the feeling of wanting, having sex every day, if nothing else, shows the difference in your two bodies. And he's, he, you know, to expect your two bodies to want the same thing every day is, is immature and a little ignorant. But he already knows, you know, like his body wants something different, right? And he's not going to get very far in any relationship if he can't show up and be empathetic to his partners without having to have to gone through what they've gone through. To be empathetic, you know, he has to know at a minimum that like sometimes, you know, even maybe once a month that like some shit might happen where he needs to like maybe Be more empathetic, maybe be less demanding, maybe show up for his partner, maybe have a little grace because again, the things that you might be feeling in a five day period over the course of one month might be something that he's never gone through. Cramping, back pains, I don't know, fucking bloating. Like, I don't know, like I don't have to deal with that every time and it doesn't sound fun. I don't have to bring out a heating pad like Nally does every month because like she's in excruciating pain because of cramps, you know. But I believe her, right? And I can understand what it's like to have back pains and I can just like ask myself, how should, how can I best show up for my partner here? I, I, I enjoy being there for my partner. I, like, I'm an act of service guy. That's my love language. Doesn't sound like it's your boyfriend's, but who knows, maybe, maybe I got him wrong. But you got to figure out if you guys really are, you know, you have this love story of being high school sweethearts and dating for as long as you did, and you have this love story of reconnecting and that is fun and that is nice and that will get a relationship a pretty long way. You know, there's a lot of people out there who are together because they like the story of how they met. That and there's not much else there, you know, but as I've said in, in this amazing book called don't text your ex happy birthday. Just kidding. It's pretty good.

[Unknown]

I have it. I haven't read it yet, but I do have it.

[Justin]

Well, there's a, okay, well, there's a part in that book, there's a whole chapter. There's a lot of things that won't want to apply to you, but there's a part of the book that says your, your relationship won't care how you met. It doesn't. Your relationship doesn't care. And you're feeling that right now because your relationship is struggling. And despite you caring how you met, your relationship does because it doesn't make. How you met doesn't fix the problem you're feeling now, right? Because a relationship needs two people to show up every day, right? And your boyfriend is not showing up in ways that you need to show up. And I guess in his version, you're not showing up in weight. He needs to get to show up. But like, he needs to understand that like his expectations are a little unfair and yours are a bare minimum.

[Unknown]

I feel really validated right now. Just I, you know, because it's. Yeah, you said that perfectly. I'm just. I'm taking it all in. It's a lot. And I do feel like that is with how we met, right? And his mom, I call her mom. You know, we stayed in touch six years. My son calls her Nana. So for me, that is something that I would definitely grieve if, you know, we were to go our separate ways. Is. That would be. Right, like, amazing. But that's definitely not what's holding our relationship together. That's not what we're going to fall back on every day. And I can acknowledge that it is something that I've kind of thought about. I would have to. If all had to separate myself from that.

[Justin]

Start every day with, like, I'm so lucky that I have you in my life and I love you. And I was thinking about, like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I love this and I love that the amount of nudes you would send him would probably just be, like, ridiculous. And, like, you didn't even have to be in the mood to send a nude. Fuck. It's so easy. But, like, I wouldn't want to send a nude to a guy being a dick to me. I wouldn't want to send a nude.

[Unknown]

To a guy barking orders. If you were giving me. Yeah. If you were giving me, like, any kind of, like, environment where I was like, you know, anything. If you were giving me anything at all, like, it would be so much easier for me to lean into. To that side. But even, like, I've been down dosing my medication and like, within the next month or so, like, I should be, you know, like, that shouldn't be playing a role anymore, you know, with the. The sex. Sexual dysfunction. And I still am not. Like, I'm just like, it's. I don't enjoy, you know, getting on the phone and having, like, we're trying to find the quality time. Like, it just always feels so heavy because this is, like, consuming every part of our relationship when we're long distance right now. That shouldn't even be a huge part of it right now, you know, so it's.

[Justin]

It's stuck in his head. I don't know. There's something going on where he just feels so validated to feel the way he does. I don't know where it's coming from, but that's the best excuse I can come up with because I would hope that he. He will eventually think these comments and the way he is acting is out of character for him. But you have way too many examples of things he said and currently, like, the fact that he. He's. He's not, like, mortified that he said these things. He comes across by the things he said and how he's acting as someone who, like, objectifies women, very kind of misogynistic and. And really thinks that your primary and really only role in this relationship is to, like, service him when he's horny. Me. And, like, you know, that's how he's acting. That's what he's saying. I don't.

[Unknown]

You know, I definitely agree with that.

[Justin]

If he was here, I would hope he would be like, I don't. I don't believe that. But, like, it was like, give me something that shows that you don't believe that. The only thing that shows that he doesn't believe that is, like, again, I really believe that he. He doesn't appreciate what he gets from you emotionally and just you being there and just him having someone while he's out doing this crazy job that he's doing. But it's a disconnect for him. It's got to be. You know, he takes it for granted for sure.

[Unknown]

Right. And that's definitely something that I will bring up to him too. You know, he's eager. I. I tried getting him on the call, but he's eager to hear what you had to say. So I'm definitely gonna let him know that.

[Justin]

I don't know. I don't know what. He's.

[Unknown]

Some insight.

[Justin]

I would wait for him to listen.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Justin]

I don't think you're gonna be. I don't think you're not that I. Not that you can't. I wouldn't be able to re. Articulate what I heard from someone about a very passionate issue that I give a lot of shits about in a way that would, like, you're better off. You can give them the Cliff Notes again. You do whatever you want. Your relationship. And honestly, I don't know when this episode is going to come out. It might be a couple weeks.

[Unknown]

He wanted me to ask. He was like, well, how long am I going to have to wait?

[Justin]

Maybe a month or less. I. I would use this to your advantage. I mean it. Like, listen, I shouldn't really make or break. Like, you know, if. If he were here and I. And I was like, dude, why, like, do you really, like, what do you think this way? Do you feel this way? Like, are you Sorry for what? And I was. Those are questions that I ask him. You need to stop acting like this is something you can solve his problem. As I see it, you're doing 100 of your half and you're trying to do some of his half. You showing up and getting advice, you know, you're trying to fix this problem because you want to be connected with your boyfriend. It's in some ways self serving. You don't want to deal with this. But like, you described a guy who is familiar. You know, there's a lot of guys who wouldn't come on here, but he's familiar with the show, seems to be a fan of the show, seems to respect my opinion, you know, like, and I always try to be pretty fair, especially when I get like, you know, couples on here. I don't want to make anyone feel. But he still chose not to show up. So what I'm saying is, like, you got to get away from this is not like a compromise. I think it's okay for you to feel like you're 100% right.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Justin]

And I think it's okay for you to be like, I'm, you know, because you're in this mindset of fix. You're in this fix it mindset. You're in this caretaker mindset and he is failing you, he's failing the relationship. And you're telling yourself that you can deal with this and that maybe there's a problem, there's a disconnect, maybe there's something you're doing, maybe you're something you're not seeing and yada, yada, yada. And you know what I'm saying, does that all resonate with you? You.

[Unknown]

It does.

[Justin]

As opposed to you being like, like, this is up. Like, I, I'm sorry, Like, you, I, you know, you, you would, you would have the grounds to break up with immediately. The moment he said, like what, after you asked him, you know, I'm, I'm. There's more to me than just like putting out and having sex. And the moment he said, like, what, you could have broken up with him and, and everyone listening would have been like, took you long enough, right? And I'm not saying you should break up with them, but I'm just saying you should know that you have the support of like mankind in this entire audience, that you're not crazy. Crazy. And that like, you shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone who thinks that way, let alone says it. And we don't even know if he just said it or if he thinks it.

[Unknown]

Right. You know, that's very validating to hear. Sorry, I'm getting a little emotional because I feel like it's been, like, made out to be in my head so much, you know? So it's really validating to hear that. Like, I feel like I. Like I've told him. I feel like I've done everything I can. Like, I feel like I'm at the end of my rope. Like, I don't know what else there is for me to do. And you're right. It's not really like it's my problem. It's for his to decide if he. He wants to show up and be different and if he doesn't. And he even said last week when we were talking, when he was like, you're right, I've been doing this out of spite. He said, let's not talk about it. Let me be different. And if I'm not, like, you have your answer.

[Justin]

Okay.

[Unknown]

But now I'm having a hard time kind of being, like, vulnerable and letting him. Because it's like so much has. It's been so much that's happened.

[Justin]

I mean, he sound. He comes across as a guy who's aware of the power position he's in and. And that could change quickly. I mean, it wouldn't shock me if you ended the relationship. I, you know, it wouldn't blow my mind. He comes crawling back and begs for you to, for, you know, reconsider and apologize and recommends couples therapy and says, I'll get into therapy, you know. You know, I've seen it all, you know, and maybe he needs a wake up call. I don't know.

[Unknown]

Yeah, but that's the thing, Nick. I feel like he's so prideful that if I were like in his head and I told him this, I said, I just really want you to understand that if I do choose to walk away, it's not me not being able to handle the distance. It's not me, my mental. It's not that. It's that you're not showing up, like, you're not giving me what I need. And then, you know, it's just.

[Justin]

What do you say?

[Unknown]

I feel like he's so prideful that he wouldn't. Well, that is, let himself.

[Justin]

Maybe so. But if that's the case, that is a. That is a characteristic that he has that you are. That you're in a relationship with. But like, this, this is acting like another level. There's. There's being stubborn and prideful in the moment when you're Trying to win an argument or whatever. Or maybe that carries over for an entire day or two. And then there's like, this is, this is a man being stubborn about a topic that you guys have been dealing with for a long period of time now. And he's shown no signs of backing down in his stubbornness, has, has overcome any desire to empathize with you, to take care of you, to emotionally support you, to validate you. None of that. And that is, you have to acknowledge that is a characteristic of his. He is demonstrating his pridefulness more than he is demonstrating his ability to take care of you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And I think you need to let go of the romanticization of this relationship. You're only 26. Sounds like as a young 26 year old woman you've been through a lot and you've had a lot of life. Same like Natalie, like our upbringings were very different, but you still are young and I wouldn't waste a lot of time on men who do this, you know, And I understand the romantic romanticization of how you met and yada yada. And you call his mom mom. And, and it sounds like maybe you didn't have your, you know, and that's, and that's extra hard on you because. Sounds like you had some conflict with your own family. Who's in the background? Is it him? Like who's, who's, who's family?

[Unknown]

These are my friends there and I'm close with my parents now. They were both, they're just, they're drug addicts and they're sober now.

[Justin]

Okay. It's positive.

[Unknown]

But I. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's, we have relationships now, but it's not, you know, I've always struggled and he was there, you know, for, for all of that when we were in high school and everything kind of fell apart there. Um, but I've always just felt like, you know, had a hard time feeling like I'm enough, you know, and it's something I've sorted through in therapy as well. But it's definitely in the forefront now.

[Justin]

If I were, I mean, honestly, what I really think is going on and I don't whether he realizes or not that like, I think your boyfriend really thinks he's in control of this relationship. You know, he's certainly not insecure about losing you, that's for sure. And, and that's crazy considering like you've acknowledged that you might choose that. But whatever reason, he is not afraid to lose you. Not yet, not right now. And I think it sounds like you have accepted the role of. Of the submissive one in the relationship. I guess I'm not. Not like, in a sexual way, but I just mean, like, he's like, yeah, well, then you have my. You know, he's just unafraid of saying anything to you, clearly. And you're afraid to say anything to him. Right? You're so ups. You're. You're so afraid of upsetting him.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Justin]

So afraid of rattling his cage because it's already rattled and things are already disconnected. He's not afraid at all. And you. And this is another reason why I don't think you should on the episode or tell them what I said. You need to change that dynamic. You need to not give a. If you want to stay in a relationship with this man, you need to change your attitude. Being like, why the. Am I letting this. Treat me this way? This is. I don't know what he's going through. I'm going to give him. I'm going to cut him some slack because what I should do is break up with his ass. I'm not going to break up with his ass. But what I'm not going to do is I'm put up with any of this. So, like, I'm just not going to take his calls. I'm not going to be there for him. I'm not going to ask him about his day. I'm going to be cold as. And if he wants to wake up and start acting the way I deserve to be treated, he can start. But until then, I'm just going to slowly let go.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Justin]

And if he doesn't stop me from letting go, I'm going to leave. Leave. But him stopping you from letting go is not what he says, it's what he does.

[Unknown]

Right?

[Justin]

And that's what you need to remember.

[Unknown]

He did bring up to me this morning, you know, because I've been very vocal. Like, listen, I see that you've been trying the past few days, and it's. Yeah, I feel like my walls are up. I feel like I'm having a harder time being vulnerable and letting you in. And he's like, well, I need you to tell me if, like, are you gonna just do what I've been doing? And now that I'm trying, are you just like, he was, like, now, are we gonna swap roles? Like, what's the point of even continuing that?

[Justin]

That's a fair question. But, like, it's not about swapping roles. Like, this is like, do you think I'm only worth having sex? You need to understand if if some of the things he said he believes and if he's sorry, does he think that you deserve to be treated that way? Like, I understand the disconnect between like you being depressed and not having a sex drive and, and the pressures of, of you not seeing him. And I can see that he handled that in a bad way without thinking he's a bad guy. I've been a young man before and like I, I didn't have an awareness that where I have today. But like he should be aware enough as a 26 year old man to recognize that he was a dick, right? And to apologize for that and to say I'm really sorry, I could have handled it better. I, I, I'm just, I just got a little frustrated, you know, like, and you're not getting that right now. So right now we need to figure out like what he really believes, right? And when he is considering it, don't push back. If your boyfriend is kind, if he reaches out, if he's nice to you, if he gives you that emotional love, you can receive it, just receive it, don't reject it. You know, that doesn't mean he's out of the clear, you know, because all, you know, it's like two days of him being nice. It's just a step in the right direction. But like, don't do for the tit for tat. But we need to find out what he really believes at first, right?

[Unknown]

And that's what I told him. I said, I definitely don't want you to feel like, like you said tit for tat. It's like this is me being scared of like, I don't know if who you have been acting like is who you are or if, you know, that was a lapse in character. And obviously I want to give you the opportunity to show up for me how you say that you're going to now. But I'm scared, you know, like, I don't know what to believe or how long this possible nice act is going to last. So it's scary for me to people.

[Justin]

Well, I empathize with your fears, but I will say, if you want to be in this relationship, you have to be in this relationship. And if you break up with them today, your heart's gonna be broken. And if you decide not to break up with him and he decides to start being more affectionate and more consideration, does some of the things that you want him to do and you receive it and you start believing in him that things get better. Yeah, I don't know. Nine Months. Things could go to the shitter. We can't predict the future. And that no different than you break up with him, you date another guy in a week, and you start dating him and you believe in him. And then he. He starts, you know, love is risky. You gotta take risks. So. But if you're gonna be in this relationship, be your best self. Don't do the tit for tat. He might break your heart. I don't know. But, like, you're just gonna have to risk that if you want to be in this relationship. That being said, you still have to hold him accountable for when he does and says some of this crazy shit that suggests that maybe he is not the person he let himself to believe. And you need to get a clear. Do you believe? It's the. If you do, if you get off the call, call be like, you're gonna have to wait for to listen to it. He told me to say that, but he also told me to ask you, like, do you, like, what. What are, like, the only being good for sex.

[Unknown]

It was easy to say those things when it was okay to touch you.

[Justin]

Yes, that, you know, do you really believe that? Like, and do you really think.

[Unknown]

Do you really think that he might actually believe those things?

[Justin]

He hasn't apologized for it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And if he says, of course I don't believe it.

[Unknown]

Daunting.

[Justin]

If he says, if he says, of course I don't believe that. All of your actions say that are backing up what you said, and you still haven't apologized. You apologize. You're, you know, like, nothing about what you're saying or doing. I literally reviewed this stuff with you before I got on the call, and you were like, I mean, hey, I appreciate your honesty, but, like, do you believe this stuff? Because if you believe this stuff, you have your answer. But if he believes, like, listen, yeah, we're. I'm frustrated about our sex life. That's. That's. He's allowed to be frustrated. That is totally okay for him to be frustrated about your sex life. And he can say that. And we. And he could say, I'm frustrated about our sex life. I know we're going through some things. I have. I clearly have not handled myself the best way. I want to fix that. Obviously, I hope we can figure out our sex life, but, like, I want us to also, you know, work on emotional connection. And do you think I would ask him this? Do you think our emotional connection is only possible if our sex life is where you think it needs to be?

[Nick]

That's good.

[Unknown]

I'm gonna write that down. That's good. I will ask him that. That also. Yeah, I will ask him that.

[Justin]

If he says yes, then you. You, I would say then you can say Nick thinks we have a big problem because it's just, it's just not true.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Justin]

Like he has emotional needs. You have emotional needs. He is literally in the middle of nowhere. There's the only reason why he wants a girlfriend right now is because of his emotional needs. He can look up porn, he can go into port or wherever the fuck. He clearly wants to have a girlfriend. He has emotional needs. So for him to deny you your emotional needs because essentially sex, like it's. But I was still asking the question before giving the answer to the test. And then I would point out his hypocrisy if he gives you the wrong answer.

[Unknown]

No, I appreciate that point of view because that's not something that I had. You know, when he's asked me like when we've talked about like, what all I bring to the relationship and what he brings, that's not something that I really considered.

[Justin]

What does he think, by the way? What does he think he brings to the relationship? Nine months out of the year he's not there. Yeah, it's his job. But he know there's other jobs out there.

[Unknown]

Right. And that's something that, you know, I feel like that question has definitely been more like put on to me what I bring. I will say that I know. Like, he obviously has, you know, financial security. Of course he, you know, and when things were going well, he showed up for me in so many ways. Like he, you know, would like make me breakfast every morning. We, you know, like, do dance classes together. Like we have. I had so many pinch me moments with the things that he would say to me about how like, is this like I can't believe someone's finally showing up for me this way. And you know, it's. It's felt like it was happening. We were connecting so naturally. I guess I haven't flat out asked him what he feels like he brings to the relationship in present day.

[Justin]

I don't know if that's, I mean, as well. Yeah, I think some of the other questions are more important. I do think that question will be received in a kind of a confrontational way. So. Yes, I honestly probably wouldn't even ask that question. I mean, if you're in a fight and he throws in your face, I would be quick to ask him that question. But other than that, it's not like productive. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know how productive it is.

[Unknown]

So he has said to me that we've talked about being empathetic. He has said to me that he has a hard time. Like, that's not his strong suit. And he's literally thought out, said, if that's somebody. If you want somebody where that is, like, they're coming into it and that's their strong suit. Like, I'm not your person. Like, obviously he's, you know, said that he'll work on it and he wants to be able.

[Justin]

I don't tell him. I, you know, tell him I said this. It's. It's most men's. It's not most men's strengths.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Justin]

I was definitely never good at it. In fact, it was. I would say it was a weakness of mine early in my life. In fact, it was a criticism my father would give me me often. I've gotten way better at it. And honestly, I've gotten better at it because, like, it made my life better. It's. You know what? It's very powerful. If you're able to empathize with other people, you can have. Not that I'm saying you do it this way. You can have power and control over them. If you can put yourself in other people's shoes and relate to them, people feel seen, people feel heard, they feel connected to you. That's power, you know, he should want to develop the skill of being more empathetic. It will. Will drastically improve his life in every aspect of his life. Empathetic to his boss, empathetic to his co workers. Like, just someone who makes other people feel sane and heard. That's how, like, honestly, how con artists, like, get what they want because that's what they did, is con people. But. And I don't think he should be manipulative or con people, but, like, he is answering this question as if he's like some tough man who just, like, if you want a guy who, like, picks, flowers and empathizes with you and, like, then find another man. It's like that. Like, that's honestly how he's answering that. That question.

[Unknown]

Right?

[Justin]

And like, it's not a. It's not a. It's not about femininity or masculinity. It is just. It is a human skill that for the people who learn how to develop it, like, life's just easier. It's better it You. You understand conflict better. It gives you more peace of mind. You just are able to, like, yeah, work with people better if you can anticipate what, you know, when I'm in conflict with anyone, whether it's work, whether it's emotional, my ability to say, well, if I, if, like let me put myself in their shoes. Shoes. Like, let me really put myself in their shoes. Not. Not try to win this fight. Not. Not, you know, but truly try to put myself in their shoes. Not. And, and again, people have to under. People really, really have a hard time understanding like the reason why something happens versus the justification. People are so afraid to empathize with people because they're afraid that will like, justify their actions.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Justin]

And that's not it. Like the, like just understand it. They are doing this because they're probably feeling this. I don't agree. Why. I don't, I don't. I don't know why they're feeling this, but that. If I were feeling that way, regardless of why I was feeling that way, if I were feeling that way, how would I. Oh, well, if I were feeling that way, I would probably be pretty pissed too. You know, it's just, it's like that's. It's a mental exercise. You just, It's. It's not hard. You just have to give a shit. You know, it's. It's a math problem. It's like chess and men are. Can relate to math and chess and things like men are more analytical. It's a, It's a, It's a puzzle. That's all it is. Empathy. Empathy is a puzzle. You just have to give a shit. You're not asking him to be an empath. No one want. You know, I have no time for other people who walk around, be like, I'm an empath and I'm just like, I understand your feeling. How do you know who I am? You haven't. You haven't got to know me at all. It's not energy. That's how people are empathetic. You're empathetic because you ask questions, you pay attention, you try to put yourself in their shoes. The more life you live, the more experiences you have and the older you. The only shortcoming that both of you have, have to be empathetic is that you're both only 26. And that like. And that like, there's things that maybe you haven't experienced or felt as a result of, like only being 26 now, you might be able to empathize more than him because, like, maybe, you know, growing up with drug addicting parents and, and having to live in someone else's house and joining the military Like, I bet you had to deal with a lot of, and you've seen a lot of and you've seen hardships in other people and that, that makes it easier for an empath. And I don't know, you know, but like, maybe he has dealt with and maybe he just hasn't unlocked that skill set. But it is not some sort of like feminine woo woo kind of like vibe. It is literally just an exercise of like asking yourself what would it be like to be in their shoes? And if that, if I felt that way, would I also be mad at this situation? Again, he doesn't have to agree with that person. He can just understand them. And sometimes when you understand someone, it just makes it a lot easier to like close the gap of disconnection.

[Unknown]

Right. I think that'll be really beneficial for him when he hears it. I won't tell him beforehand, but when he hears it, I think that that'll be really good. Yeah, that's something he definitely let him.

[Justin]

Let him hear it for me. When you're listening, buddy, that one's for you. But yeah, seriously, it's like, it's not me being better at empathizing with people has made my life easier. Easier. And I didn't do it to seem like a better guy. And I didn't do it because I thought it would like, look good. I just like, honestly, what just like helped me, helped my life, you know, and I didn't have to like get crystals or, or meet a sage in the mountains. I just had to like, ask. I just had to give a. And I just had to develop a skill.

[Unknown]

I feel like that'll definitely give him some perspective, hearing, hearing your point of view on that. Because I've asked him before, you know, how why do you have such a hard time time, you know, showing empathy or, you know, and he says that he has a hard time with it because he thinks that every decision you've made has gotten you to where you are. So why should he feel bad for you about it?

[Justin]

Huh? That doesn't make any sense.

[Unknown]

Yeah, he says that like when. And maybe I didn't say it in the best.

[Justin]

It sounds like something I would have said when I was 22 or maybe even 26. I don't know. But. So, yeah, he's a, he's a, he's a bit of an arrogant, arrogant, young, confident guy who's a little too set in his ways. And he. Honestly, the thing that humbled me was getting my heart crushed a couple times. So maybe that's what Will humble him.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Justin]

You need to stop trying to take care of him.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Justin]

That's hard for me. You have a son to take care of. You have yourself to take care of. And not that you need a man to take care of you, but what's the point of being in a relationship if you're not taken care of? I didn't get a relationship. I mean, I love taking care of my family, so that's kind of a lot. But, like, you know, you need to be taken care of, too, and you're not being taken care of. And the solution to not being taken care of isn't to take more care of the person not taking care of you. You need to shift your energy to your son. Yeah. And yourself. And he needs to feel that energy shift, and that will be the thing that hopefully wakes him up.

[Unknown]

Okay. All right. I have the questions written down. I'm going to talk to him after this, and then I'll let him hear the rest from you. But I really appreciate your time and.

[Justin]

All of your insight between now. When the episode comes out. Don't be afraid to break up with them. Okay? You can always get back together. And, like, I'm rooting for the guy. And, like, I'm flattered that he thinks I'm. I'm going to give you good advice, but, like, you know, he. He's. This will be the best.

[Unknown]

I literally asked him. I said, well, what if he tells me to break up with you? And he was like, well, then I don't feel like he's leading you astray. Like, it's. Yeah, it's astonishing.

[Justin]

Again, this is either. This is. You know, he's. He's kind of a dick. He's got. He's kind of a dick. Yeah, he. I mean, again, and maybe he just doesn't empathize, his lack of empathy, but he should know that comment would hurt your feelings. And he can choose not to empathize, but, like, no one's gonna think he's. You know. And, yeah, at 26, I guess I didn't care if people thought I was a dick either, but I don't know, he should do it for himself because his life will be a lot easier when he decides to develop that. Go.

[Unknown]

Right. Thank you so much. I. I do feel better. I do. I've been, like, so excited for this and anxious, and I listen to you all the time. I know everybody always says that, but I. Yeah, you guys are great. You keep me company on my commute, so.

[Justin]

Well, I really appreciate you listening. Tell all your friends, and hopefully things get better. But you're only. You're only 26. You have too much going for you on your own. You've gone through too much. You survived too much to be dealing with like this. This is a relationship that's pulling you back. It's not bringing you forward. I want you to bring the, like, the attitude. I want, like, I want you to get on the phone and, like, honestly, I wouldn't call him right away.

[Unknown]

Okay, Don't.

[Justin]

I would wait till the end of the day, be busy. If he's like, are you ignoring me? Like, no, I'm sorry. I'm just busy. You're not ignoring him.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Justin]

And then when you get on the phone, I want the energy to be very much like, I'm the man. I'm in charge. I don't really care about the outcome because that's the energy he's giving you.

[Unknown]

Right?

[Justin]

He's like, oh, well, if Nick tells you to break up with me, then I guess I have that answer. It's just like, he's. He's so indifferent about what happens. And, like, that is a power move. He is doing it. It's a defense mechanism. You need to turn it around. I want you to channel. Think about that energy he's giving you. What if it's real? You definitely don't want him to be your boyfriend. If it's some sort of act, then he needs to. He needs a taste of his medicine. He needs. You know.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Justin]

So I want you to be the. You don't have time for him. You got busy things to do. Like, you know, you can take them or leave them, whatever. Like, at the end of the day, you're done having an. Is a boyfriend. In fact, it would.

[Unknown]

I can do that.

[Justin]

I wouldn't even maybe get to him tomorrow. I would just be busy all day.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Justin]

Be busy. Oh, no, I'm totally. No, honestly, like, I'm just busy, you know, like, Nick, blah, blah, blah. Like, he didn't. You know, I'm just. I'm sorry. I'm just busy. I'm still busy. Blah, blah, blah. I'm busy. The. Let him stew.

[Unknown]

Okay. I can do that. That's a good challenge. I can do that.

[Justin]

He is so in control of his situation. He needs to. You need to take some of that control away from him.

[Unknown]

Right, I agree.

[Justin]

Keep, Keep. Keep him in the dark. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Justin]

All right. Good luck. Keep me posted. I definitely want to. I definitely want to.

[Nick]

I will.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Okay. I will. Thank you guys so much for everything. That you do.

[Justin]

All right, take care.

[Unknown]

All right, you too.

[Justin]

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[Justin]

Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host, you seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion and this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today. How's it going?

[Nick]

Good. My name is Sarah, I'm 26 years old and I am struggling to connect with my teenage son.

[Justin]

Okay. How old's your son?

[Nick]

So he's a teenager. He's in high school.

[Justin]

Okay.

[Nick]

And actually, he's not biologically my son.

[Justin]

Okay.

[Nick]

Me and my husband took him and his sister in last year. Year. So there's several layers to why it's difficult for me to connect with him. One being obviously, you know, he's biologically not my son, so I wasn't there to raise him or just build those connections early on. And then two, I've never had brothers. I have two younger biological daughters.

[Justin]

Okay.

[Nick]

And so I feel like it's easy for me to connect with daughters, but I'm really struggling specifically with my relationship with him for a lot of reasons. And my heart's been hurting for him lately because he's really struggling with the transition of moving into our home and making friends.

[Justin]

Is this like a foster parent situation?

[Nick]

Sort of. It's kind of a unique situation. They're actually related to me.

[Justin]

Okay.

[Nick]

And they had no other options of where to go given their circumstance. The next option was going to be foster care.

[Justin]

Okay.

[Nick]

And I've always wanted to get into foster care and adopt since.

[Justin]

Sure.

[Nick]

I was younger. And it just felt like, yeah, me and my husband, we talked about. And we thought that that was, you know, the right thing to do, and we felt led to do that. And so we took them in last year, and transition was pretty good. You know, they're great kids. We love them to death, and we. We see them as our kids. Okay. You know, even though they're not biologically ours, like, when I talk about him, his sister, I see them as my children, and they will forever be part of our family, even when they're 18 and they're on their own. Like, those are our kids.

[Justin]

Okay.

[Nick]

So I'm just struggling. There's a lot to learn with just having a teenager.

[Justin]

How long have they been in the house household?

[Nick]

Almost a year now.

[Justin]

Okay. And you're asking questions mostly about your son, but he has a sister. Yep. Okay. And. And how are things with her?

[Nick]

I would say things with her are a lot easier. I. I find connecting with her less difficult. And maybe that's because I can relate to her with just some of her, I don't know, just typical teenage girl struggles. I've been there.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Especially because it wasn't that long ago for me, I think, again, specifically why I'm struggling connect with him is I didn't have brothers. I don't really understand what it's like to be a teenage boy. And we're. There's kind of friction between us because we have such opposite personalities as well. And so I just feel really bad because I know that I could be connecting with him better. And so I'm just seeking advice specifically from you too, because you were a teenage boy. Just what is it that teenage boys look for in their mother figures and like, what not to do? Sure.

[Justin]

Well, I appreciate you asking. I mean, I definitely don't have a ton obviously of experience in dealing with this very specific thing. But I know you know that I have a few more questions, so I just want to clarify too. Like from a behavioral standpoint, he's doing okay. This is really just about like you're just not sure how to connect with this young man. Like what? I guess, could you offer any more specificity on the behaviors you are struggling with other than like feeling disconnected?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And then my second follow up question to that is, is your husband experiencing a similar disconnection with him or is this more just your challenges?

[Nick]

Yeah, I can touch on that. So you again, you asked how I'm doing with his sister and I would say why? I feel like I'm doing better with her also as we're just seeing more growth from her as well. Like, we feel like we made connection, we made breakthrough with her. She's done complete 180 from when she moved in. Like she was hiding in a room all the time. Now she's got like girlfriends, boyfriend, she's doing much better in school, she's putting herself out there. She has just this growth mindset. And I think again, why I'm calling is we haven't made that same breakthrough with him. And I'm wondering if that's because of the lack of the connection there and if I'm maybe not understanding how to help him and best support and love him, but specifically behavior wise, he hasn't made any friends at school and he struggles with just some coping behaviors that we've tried to talk through, but we're not again, not really seeing. Since he moved in, there hasn't been a ton of growth versus his sister. There's been a lot of growth and a lot of maturing and we're just kind of feeling stuck, specifically me, with how to reach him. So that's kind of the behavioral thing is struggling to make friends. And then also there's an inclination to substances and stuff like that too.

[Justin]

Okay, that's, that's a bummer. Is he more. Do you know if he's more introverted, extroverted or. I Mean, it sounds like maybe these kids also maybe dealt with a little bit of trauma for sure.

[Nick]

Oh yeah, a lot of that. And, and I, I think me and my husband both recognize why he might be struggling with substances and making friends like it. It's pretty clear to us those connections and why he's struggling in those areas. However, again, it's more of how do we reach it him and how do we help him and support him as a teenager.

[Justin]

How is he getting access to any of these substances?

[Nick]

So part of the equation too is they had to move from their previous town, which was more rural, much more small, and we live in the cities. And a lot of his access is from his previous location. That is where he gets access because sometimes we do visitations because he has family and older friends there. And in the summer we were bringing him there and that's where he would get, get access somehow. And then there's just a fascination with it as well, just researching ways to get it illegally researching ways to get it as a minor. So he, he definitely has this draw to it. And again, me and my husband see it as, you know, those ties and connections to trauma and coping and learn behavior type things.

[Justin]

Are you guys getting any like professional help like with like family therapists or anything like that?

[Nick]

Yeah. So over the summer that was actually our first kind of gateway to getting him in the door with therapy because he extremely resistant. That's another thing that I struggled to connect with him on is he's extremely resistant to growth in general. He's like, the past is the past. Like, I'm fine, you know, I don't have trauma. And so when he first moved in, I encouraged him and his sister to like, my family is really big into therapy. Like we think everybody should go. It's great. You can have a lot of growth, a lot of tools to navigate things in your life. But he was extremely, extremely resistant. The sister was not, not. I think that's also why she's made a lot more strides and growth and maturity. So that's been tough. And then over the summer he got into substances. He got caught. When he came back home, we said, hey, so one of the consequences for, you know, doing something you shouldn't is now we kind of have, you have no choice, like you're going to go to therapy. So he is right now. But again, it's really hard because his therapist did say, like, you have to help me to help you. And it's been a constant theme of him not wanting to acknowledge one, that he has drama Two, he's not acknowledging that he has areas that he can grow in. And for me, that's where the disconnect happens. And I don't know how to reach him if he's not willing to learn and grow and mature. And so that's kind of why I'm looking for it advice, because I just kind of feel at a loss.

[Justin]

It's a tough situation you're in. I know. I don't know how much help I'm gonna be, you know, because, like, you know, as a teenager, I fortunately had a very, like, good upbringing. I didn't have to deal with a lot of trauma and things like that. And I had a healthy relationship with my parents. If I were trying to just generalize young men in general, I don't know what he experienced. But I'll say this. It's not surprising to me that the older boys boy is having a hard time coping with whatever trauma he had than the younger girl. I think in general, when you're younger, I think it's easier to work through that trauma, maybe a little bit more depending on what happened or when it happened. And I think young men in general, they struggle expressing themselves and being more vulnerable and emotional and things like that. I think maybe that's where maybe your husband might be able to play a stronger role than you. I, I, I, if one advice I would try to give to you is try. And I know this is the way you're phrasing it, but I would try to. And I'm not saying you're you, Obviously all of your intentions are to help this kid, clearly. Right. But like, I think it's less about your con, your immediate connection with him and whether you feel connected to him and just trying to like, figure out what this kid needs. Right. Because this kid is struggling and, and, and we, you know, like, you know, you're kind of at a loss. Like, what do I give this kid? I can say that as a young man, man, as close as I was with my mom, I definitely was not, like, connecting with her. You know, I wasn't bonding with her maybe as, as I did when I was a little boy and things like that. I think as a young man, you are more drawn to either independence or other, other male role models. And so I, you know, to me this sounds like a kid who's really, you know, friends. I would love to see him try to figure out making friends, you know, but like, that might be something he struggle with right now. It might be easier for him to have some more rail Strong male role models that he looks up to. Right. That can be friends to him. He's going to need friends his age for sure. But that's. He might not have that skill set right now to develop those friends. But we want to nip this in the bud as early as possible so that by the time he gets to adulthood, he's not dealing with these same challenges of making friends and like, you know, the last thing you want shit in 2025. I think regardless of what this young man has gone through, I do think we're dealing with an epidemic of like lonely young men. I think, you know, there's too many young men finding porn online. Video. Video games, porn and drugs, you know, and it's just like lack of social skills. I honestly am worried. But we need, you know, I think, yeah, I think your husband can probably have a stronger impact than you right now. I think again, like, I just think it's. It's normal for young men to seek out male role models.

[Nick]

Yeah, sorry, I shouldn't have used the word connection. I suppose maybe, like, parenting style sure would have been more appropriate because I just feel like I might be pushing him way more when handling these behaviors. So I guess it's less so connection because actually, actually he's a little bit more different than I. I would say the average teenage boy. He's actually pretty attached to being my husband. So, yeah, you're right. The connection probably wasn't the right way.

[Justin]

What does he like to do?

[Nick]

Well, he. He does like to do the video game thing.

[Justin]

Outside of video games, what does he like? Does he enjoy sports? What real life things could you, like, introduce to his life?

[Nick]

He is in sports. He's kind of miserable because he's, I wouldn't say the worst player on the team, but he definitely doesn't get any minutes.

[Justin]

Okay, so maybe he doesn't.

[Nick]

So I. I just feel like his life's pretty tough, okay. He just has no friends, he's not getting any minutes. And then he works a job part time that he just hates. So I just feel really bad because I just feel like his life.

[Justin]

Does he mean, does he need to work on this at this job right now?

[Nick]

Over the summer when he lived with us, he was working at this job, but he chose to give up a lot of shifts and kind of sit around. And his goal is to have a car and buy a car and pay for gas, insurance and all those things, which we're super supportive of. And he kind of wasted his summer scrolling on TikTok playing video Games, giving up the shifts. And so he kind of feels this sense of urgency because he gets his license soon. So. Yeah. So he finds work to be important just for the value of saving money.

[Justin]

Gotcha. I want to just reaffirm. I am not an expert, so take everything I say with an absolute grain of salt. But when you were talking about him getting a car, like, I just, I just wonder if like a, a kid going through what he's going through right now, like having a. A driver's license and a car is the best thing for him right now, you know, And I was just like. Cause that's going to give him more freedom. And right now he's someone who's lacking direction, he's lacking friendships, and it's going to give him like a literal vehicle and also a metaphorical vehicle to escape and I don't know and seek out and my advice. Honestly, the best thing I can offer you right now is I really think that, like, this sounds like a young man who needs to be surrounded as much as possible. We need to figure out what he enjoys, right? What does he have a passion for? You know, and he may. How most people don't know what their passions are, but I think trying to introduce him to new things. He needs to give a shit about something. He needs to be excited about something. Something, you know, if he. Yeah, he's on the sports team, but he doesn't play, you know, even if he likes sports, playing sports might not be his thing. It's just going to make him feel less than. We need to find something for this kid that he's gets into that he feels like he's good at, you know, and then we need to like, develop that passion. He just needs to give a. About something. Something that makes him feel a sense of pride, you know. And in the meantime, I would love for him to have some male mentors, role models, you know, like maybe it's your. Hopefully your husband is, you know, is able to do that and like, maybe even your husband and his friends can like, you know, bring them along and show him the ropes about some cool things. He's going to hopefully look. Look up to older men. Right. The problem with. Is when. When young confused teenagers in general, a lot of people in healthy lifestyles are just kind of too busy and too preoccupied and like. And it's the bad people who seek out young confused people like him and they become the bad role models, you know. And the last thing I want for this kid is to like, get his license, get his car and like to meet the wrong guy, you know.

[Nick]

Yeah. How do you balance that though? Like you're saying, like, I agree, like I don't really want him to have that freedom. But how do you balance that with. You know, we, we talk to him all the time about being responsible, you know, saving his money because when he moved in with us, he spent all of it. So now he's actually trying to do the right thing by saving his money, you know, doing the driver's ed and all those things. So like my fear is exactly what you're saying. And.

[Justin]

Well, the car makes sense though. But. Right. Because like, if nothing else, having his own car sounds cool to probably anyone, certainly a teenager. And that's the first thing from what I've, you know, again, I barely know. I know very little about the story. But like you gave him a goal and granted, like he was a teenager, so he played video Games, was on TikTok and he didn't fulfill that goal. But there was a moment. Moment or there still is a moment now. And now he kind of realized his, his mistake. Right. And now he's reinvesting in that goal. And so he's willing to work a job he doesn't like for to get this car. And that to me that shows that like we can channel this kid a little bit, you know, but the. We have to find out what his other goals and passions are. Right now his only goal is to get out, to get a car.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And, and do it and have freedom him to, to escape. And I would love him to. And we'd have to introduce more things into his life. Who knows what his passions might be, you know, like what's his personality like? Is he analytical? Is he creative?

[Nick]

So that's the hard part because we, me and my husband actually had this discussion. My husband's on the same page. He actually told me the other day. He's like, you know, what he needs is a little bit of a. Just a picker upper by being good at something because right now it kind of feels like he's getting beat down and I near every area of his life. So that's actually exactly what my husband said. But what we're both struggling with is he kind of doesn't have much personality outside of he's a really, he's really kind kid. Like he really is. He's really well mannered, he has a really big heart. But as far as like gifts, passions, talents, interests, it again falls into that category of just he's kind of interested in escaping. And again, given his trust traumatic background. It makes sense. And you know, he, he hasn't been under our roof very long. So again like state stability hasn't been a thing for him. So we're struggling. How do you, how do you introduce those things to someone who just his desire honestly seems like he just wants to numb out. Like that's all he wants to do. Like his goal is just to get home at the end of the day and just scroll on his phone. Um, so it's just really hard to come up with ideas especially because he really struggles with closed mindedness too.

[Justin]

Sure. And like when he's a teenager, the challenge is going to be on the side of you and your husband. Right. Because it, you know, you're right. It's, it's, this isn't going to happen overnight. It's going to like, it's going to require and that's why obviously what you're, you, you and your husband are doing is very noble. It's very challenging. Being a foster parent is very challenging. You know, it's a lot easier to be a parent when your kid, you know, like my daughter river, it's just like, you know, right now she's delightful but when she grows up, I'm not sure what personality traits she'll have or how difficult she might be in certain areas. But right now we'll be able to be like, we're your parents, you do what we say and blah. We have a little bit of control and like you're, you're just trying to like have this kid trust you, let alone like trying to like, I'm your parent, you know, and things like that. So you guys really are walking on eggshells. I think you just have to try to be patient as much as you can be. You're gonna have to, you have to be resilient. You're gonna have to be able to try things out. You can't get discouraged around him, him when and just be like, oh God, what do you like, you know, things like that, you know, you're just gonna have to keep trying. Something is gonna land right in the meantime. I don't know, this is just like again my opinion. I don't know if a therapist would agree with me but like kids needs to believe in himself too, right? Right now he probably doesn't believe in himself, doesn't believe there's much of a future. But I don't know what trauma he experienced. But maybe he has a very pessimistic view on life. But you need to start if any, if you preach anything to this kid, it's his. Like, I would do whatever you can to make him believe in himself. I would observe his. His. His good qualities, his. 10. You know, what. What is. What do you think he's good at? Even if it just gas this kid up, make him feel good about himself, be a cheerleader, you know, don't be obnoxious about it. But, like, really, you know, hey, you know what? You know what I really pointed out? You know what I really. Do you realize how good you are at blank, blank, blank, blank, blank. Do you know, like, that was a really nice thing you did? That was really cool. Cool. He's just not getting that anywhere else. Like, you have to go out of your way for you and your husband to just make this kid believe in himself. And if he can believe in himself, then he can believe in his potential, you know? And once you start believing your potential, then you realize you have something to live for. You know, Right now, he doesn't care about his choices because he doesn't really care what happens to him because life's a drag and life's been nothing but, like, misery. And I can give you a bunch of reasons why life sucks, and I can give you very few reasons why life is awesome and you're you and your husband. I honestly, if my opinion is it's your job right now, not, I mean, it's not your job. You're doing a kindness. But, like, if I were you, I would just try to make this kid just find something every day to make this kid smile. Believe in himself, to have some pride in what he does, you know? Yeah, like that pride, you know, feeling good about what he is doing and then, like, something to live, you know, believe in the future, dream. Have him dream about things. What do you want to do when you grow up? Like, dream big too. Does he want to be the President of the United States? Does he want to be an astronaut? Does he want to fly a plane? Ask him about his dreams and make him believe that he has the right to dream big. Because right now he doesn't have a reason to believe. Dream big. He keeps his dreams small because most of his dreams, dreams he never even had. Things he took it, Grant took for granted, like a healthy home. Those dreams were ripped away. He's probably very reluctant to have dreams, right? So, you know, you gotta start small. But, like, it's really just about getting this kid to start believing in life and hope and dream and aspire to do anything other than just escape. But you're gonna you will have to be patient because it's gonna probably feel like it does now. Like it's, it's met with a ton of resistance. And I think you're gonna have to not. You're gonna have to be willing to accept that resistance and, and, and find the small wins. And it may, it's going to take some time, but you just get to keep hammering. You have to. You know, and like you just described, for a kid who's very used in temporary situations and things that don't last, this could be an almost subconscious, like, test of like, I don't know, they're kind now, but like, they'll be dicks in a year. I don't know. You know, they'll. They believe in me now, but will they believe in me in two years? I don't know, like, you know what I'm saying? His, his resistance to your kindness might be like a test in a way, not even a conscious one, but could be a subconscious test. So it's. I, I really think patience and resiliency and consistency on the part of you and your husband is the most important thing. And then, and then what you're consistent and resilient about is the, is making him believe in himself, giving him things to take pride in what he does, you know, to, you know, find ways to compliment him. Maybe it's his hair one day, maybe it's his sense of style the other day. Who knows what this kid's interest interested in? You know, again, it could be fashion, it could be engineering, it could be sports. It could be maybe, maybe he sucks at sports, but he's amazing at fantasy sports. You know, I don't know. You know, be open to anything. Honestly, we're just trying to find any win for this kid whatsoever. Something that makes him go, I did that. That was cool. You know, that's why they give out gold stars to first graders, you know, because at an early age they want a kid to feel like I did something. I, I used to give tell the same story every job interview I had, and it was a true story. And because I was in a sales job, they fucking loved it. But it's true. I remember the first thing I won it was in the first grade. It was a coloring contest. And we were supposed to color paint glass windows. And being a Catholic kid, my mom was like, you should paint all those little. Paint glass windows different colors. And all the kids were just like, orange, purple. And I was in the first grade. We're sitting in our little circle on the floor, floor as first graders Doug do. And then in walked the results of the coloring contest and they called my name and I was the winner. And that felt so good. Like, honestly, I was like, I like winning. Winning's awesome. I want to replicate this feeling, you know, I feel really. And wouldn't you know it, I got really good at art and maybe, maybe I was always going to be good at art, I don't know. But like that belief in myself that I could do something good and I, and I got rewarded for it. And people were like, that was cool, good job. And I had all, you know, I got accolades and attention and you know, like that, that affected me. So to this, I still vividly remember that day. Don't remember much about first grade, do remember that day. And it's because I won something, you know, and so like this kid needs wins. He needs a lot of wins. He needs some small wins. He needs to, and he needs to be able to trust these wins. And he's going to at first feel like it's insincere. He's going to feel like you're just saying it to be nice. He's going to find every way possible not to believe you and your husband been. But you're going to have to keep being resistant. You're going to have to pe. You know, have to stay patient, be consistent and just hope that over time this kid starts to trust, you know, and, and starts to believe in himself and then, you know, know that you guys will always show up for him. That that's my advice.

[Nick]

No, I think that's really good. That's a good call out too because I think that's an area that I struggle in. If I'm being honest. I'm a lot, a lot harder on him for some reason than his sister. And I don't know if that's because our personalities are so different. And he kind of like, like, you know, in my high school experience, I was a three sport athlete. I worked really hard, got straight A's, did all these things. I was like a busy B. And he's kind of the complete opposite of that. And so sometimes I feel like I'm doing exactly the opposite of what you suggested to do, which was instead of like celebrating the little things, I can be extra like nitpicky and hard on him because he is so different from me. So I just think that's good advice and a good call out because like, as you were saying it, like, just celebrate like the little things. I'm like, oh, here I am. Doing the opposite and kind of pointing out the little things that he could work on. And maybe that's where that kind of friction is happening between us.

[Justin]

Well, that's why you're asking a third party. Yeah, I can be. Yeah, I can be nitpicky. I think we don't realize as parents. And that's something. As my daughter gets older, I'm gonna, you know, Nellie and I will have to check each other, you know, because there will be a time to play good cop and there will be a time to play bad cop, you know, but right now I think this kid needs a lot of good cop and I think the bat. He's dealt with so much bad cop that like, let's, let's worry. Let's get this, let's get this kid to believe in himself first before we start, like, I'm the kid who you need to be like, hey, buddy, you're a little cocky. You know, when this kid starts getting real cocky and start, you know, then, then you'll be able to nitpick. Right? Because that's when you're fine.

[Nick]

Well, so he does do that sometimes though, like over things that are like, like we'll be playing pickup basketball ball and he'll like, over celebrate. And is that a case where I do still cheerlead him? Even if he's being a little overly cocky or kind of in your face especially.

[Justin]

It's not from what you're describing. Oh, big picture, I would say. Yeah. Him overcompensating a small victory as a result of no one giving it paying any attention to this kid.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And yes, I think right now you should just celebrate this kid. I think you shouldn't. You know, he. He needs a pickme up. He needs a believe in himself. He needs to feel like this is, you know, every kid has dreams and I don't know how much he's dreamt, but every kid has dreamt about like being hoisted up on his friend's shoulders. And you know, he's watched TV and Nickelodeon, the Disney Channel. All these, all the magical moments that are shown in these. It's not a coincidence. Is because kids fantasize about these things, you know, and he's like, he's never experienced any of these things. He's on the end of the bench and he's not doing it, you know, and so, so like here he is with his, his mom who maybe you've talked about your sports. Sports accomplishments and he like, maybe that's his trying to connect. And here you are. I'm not trying to make you feel bad being like, you know, again, there's a time and a place. Because you're probably trying to fine tune his, like, maybe social awkwardness. And you're thinking, oh, he needs friends. And so like, he. That might be obnoxious if he acts this way at school. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna tweak that right to me.

[Nick]

Totally. That was totally the intent.

[Justin]

Yeah. Yeah. And like, you're trying to fine tune someone that's like, right now we're putting the car back together right now. The wheels are off. The. The engine's not even in the car. We're putting Humpty Dumpty back together again. Once Humpty is back together, then we'll polish them. I just jumped from two analogies to another. But you get what I'm saying, Like, you know, now's not the time for fine tuning. We're really trying to bring this kid into, like, believing in himself to want. You need him to want to say no to drugs because it's hurting him. It's hurting his. His body. And his body is a temple. And he's got one body. And the better he takes care of his body, the longer he'll live. But he doesn't give a about that right now.

[Nick]

Right.

[Justin]

You know, because all he cares about is numbing the moment so he doesn't have to worry about all his fears. Concerns and why people don't believe him and no one likes him and why he can't find friends and who. Why would the. Would he want to stick around for 80 years? So why should he give a. About his body today? And we need to change that mental. We need to change corporation course. And right now we need a love life. Celebrate things. Wake up. Be grateful that he woke up and just be like. And. And celebrate his happiness. And like, I would. I would worry about the nitpicking for a while and, and let him be whoever the he wants to be and celebrate him as long as he's a good person and he's kind to other people.

[Nick]

Yeah. Yeah, that's really good. I. That's a great call out and that's really, really helpful.

[Justin]

Yeah. He doesn't have to be cool. He doesn't have to be popular. I mean, yeah, we want him to make friends someday, but maybe be making friends in adulthood is way more important than like, whatever friends he doesn't have now. And that's where I think he can learn. I think your husband and his buddies to try to include him, bring him along, he might say no, but you always ask, never stop asking to include him. Always ask, even if he says no every time, you know, he's expecting, you know, so o. Always bring him along. Sporting events, fishing, whatever it is, you know, if it's not, if it's not adult focused. But when your husband's hanging out with his boys and doing that, that's. He'll learn how to be around, he'll make, he'll learn how to make friends by seeing your husband and his buddies interact with each other. That'll be the best. You, you know, he's not going to learn how to make friends by you nitpicking him and telling him how to act.

[Nick]

Totally. But yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. That's really good. And it's hard to find those times. Like for my husband, it's really hard. Since we have four kids at home and he's work, works a full time, busy job, it is kind of hard to find those moments to even bring him along because my husband doesn't get to have guy time that much. So maybe that's something we can rediscuss though and try to make more of a priority.

[Justin]

Listen, once again, what you and your husband are doing is a noble thing and it's not easy to do, but you know, this kind of is what needs to be done in these situations to. You got to try to find the time, you know, and you could be, honestly, you could be saving a life. You know, this kid needs to believe in himself and like this is how he's going to learn. Being around good role models.

[Nick]

Yeah, I think it's more of a monkey fee thing versus me and my husband try to have a lot of like just sit down, heart to hearts. And that's been going nowhere.

[Justin]

So when you do that, you're telling him what he's doing wrong. This kid is probably so tired of negative feedback.

[Nick]

Totally.

[Justin]

Just show him what normal is like. He's never seen it.

[Nick]

Yeah. Yeah, that's really good. And I think you're right. It's going to take a lot of patience and a lot of like growing pains for me too personally, because I again, it's. It's hard to switch from parenting, you know, two littles, like a toddler and a baby to getting in that mindset of just listening. Like I feel like with little kids it's a different approach of you're correcting them, you're teaching them and you're talking to them about all these things that they're Learning, and then you switch to parenting teenager, and it's a total different game.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So I think that's probably where some of the growing pains are coming from my side for. For, like, from a parent parenting perspective.

[Justin]

Totally. It's good that you're mindful of that, too, because, again, this is a challenging thing that you and your husband took on. So it's going to come with stress, and it's going to come with feelings of maybe failure, and it's going to come with, you know, like, stress also causes you to not be your best self. So, like, being mindful about that and then being mindful about not projecting it onto your son and things like that, maybe small wins. I mean, I don't. A lot of teenage boys aren't into babysitting, things like that. But, like, maybe through parenting your two younger kids, like, those are opportunities. Opportunities to compliment him. And especially when he does something kind or nice. Again, the smallest. I would find anything to compliment this kid about anything. And I would be very mindful of critiquing him. Short of him hurting himself. I would lay off the critiques.

[Nick]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I can tell he's craving it, too.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Like, I was put in a situation yesterday where he showed me his background. Like, he really wanted to show me his background in his phone. And I got caught in a tricky situation of him looking for affirmation for me, but it was a picture of Scooby Doo and smoking weed. And so it's like, that put me in a tricky position where I could tell he craves, like, affirmation. But then I was stuck in being like, but that's kind of immature. And, yeah, weed's not great for you as a kid. Like, whatever. So I was like, you know, struggling with knowing he needs that affirmation. Also, he comes so in those situ.

[Justin]

Situations, ask more questions. Questions. Well, what do you like about it? That's really cool. That's really. First of all, it's a very artistic painting. You know, you can find clever ways of. But, like, what do you like about that? Like, you know, immediately you're like, oh, there's weed there. I mean, I get it. Like, I. Yeah. You know, it's. It's easier for me to say this, you know, now that I'm in this position. You know, not invested and heard your story. But, like, in situations like that, ask. Just be more curious. That way, at least you're not criticizing, you know, what do you like about this? That's you. You know, like, yeah, I loved Scooby Doo as a kid. What a cool like, you know, focus on the Scooby Doo part. Forget about the immaturity part. Maybe he wants to be an artist, you know. Right. Like why? What like what is it? Why does he like that? We need to find that out. And if it's the weed part, I don't know, maybe he's testing you and you know, like you don't have to pretend as his caregiver and his mom that like, you don't think it's good he's smoking weed. It's not good for your brain. It's not good for him development. Like, I wish I want you to take better care of your yourself but like say it like that instead of critiquing them and like, oh, you're dumb weeds bad. It's like I, I just love you and I really want you to. I, I, I think you're capable of so much. And we, you know, like it, it takes thing, you know, it helps with anxiety, but it also affects X, you know, do some research, you know. But you know what I'm saying, it's, it's always from a position of love, not criticism. You know, when you're criticizing, that's bad. You, why did you do that? That don't you know how bad that is for you? That's criticism, you know, care, you know, like I just what is cool about it? But like I really, you know, I want you to not like this is dangerous stuff, but find those moments of him needing affirmation and focus on that. But that is a tricky situation. But you know, try to thread the needle and then maybe circle back, you know, about the drugs, you know.

[Nick]

But yeah, no, that's good. Being curious and asking questions, like, I think that's really good. And, and when you're talking about critiques, believe it or not, it actually comes out of a place of fear and control. That's where why that comes out of me. And so just the willingness to let go of the fact that if, if I don't say, hey, this is bad, that he still, like you said, he still knows that, that that's where I stand. I don't have to reverbalize that. But yeah, just switching my mindset to I'm asking questions because I want to get to know and understand him, I think would just be more helpful for me because a lot of times the critiques just come out of a place of fear of I don't want him to go down a path where it'll ruin his life or whatever. Or like, you know, again, it's more to do with generational history.

[Justin]

Ironically, you called in with the question how to connect more with my son. Right. Well, honestly, the solution is to do that. You. He. This guy, you know, he doesn't have friends. Be a friend. Honestly, be. Be more of a friend and less of a mom in a weird way. Again, you are his mom. So make sure he's safe. But you're going to almost have to do it in a trick. You know, you're going to have to trick him, you know, make sure he's protected and safe. But, like, right now, he goes to school, he has no friends, he goes to sports, he's sitting on the bench, he has no friends. The kid's just trying to get through the day. Imagine what it'd be like to have no friends. So be his friend. Ask again. Show an interest in what he likes, what he gives a shit about, you know, know. Same with your husband. It's going to have more impact from your husband because most teenage boys seek out male leadership and male role models and things like that. And, like, interest from your husband will go a ton away. Just like, hey, how. What do you. How'd you do today? Like, what are you into? What do you like? I don't know. Does he. Is he like movies, like Give a and everything? He gives a. About and. And see where that goes? I think I'll go long way.

[Nick]

Yeah, I think that's great. I think that's really helpful.

[Justin]

All right, well, good luck.

[Nick]

Oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. That really was thought provoking and extremely helpful. Thank you.

[Justin]

Oh, I'm glad I was. I was a little nervous how helpful I could be, but I feel.

[Nick]

No, it was really, really, really good.

[Justin]

I feel good about. Yeah, I feel good about what was said. Please keep us posted. I'd love an update. I mean, I would love to hear how this young man's doing, but, yeah, you're doing a great thing.

[Nick]

Thank you. I appreciate your time.

[Justin]

All right, take care.

[Nick]

Thank you.

[Unknown]

You too.

[Justin]

Bye. Bye.

[Megan]

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[Justin]

You're pretty smart when people talk about you.

[Unknown]

Too smart comes up a lot.

[Nick]

So why are you trying to prove them wrong?

[Justin]

Why aren't you pushing the limits of.

[Nick]

Science and powering the nuclear engines of.

[Justin]

The world's most powerful Navy? If you were born for it, isn't it time to make a smart choice? You can be smart or you can be nuke smart.

[Unknown]

Become a nuclear engineer at navy.com nukesmart.

[Justin]

America's Navy forged by the sea.