E894 - Taylor Ann Green, Traitors w/ Carolyn, Hometowns, LIB, The Oscars, Ruby Franke, and Brunch Buffets

Summary

Summary of The Viall Files Podcast - Episode E894

The Viall Files Episode E894, hosted by Nick Viall alongside Natalie Joy and other household members, offers a rich tapestry of conversations surrounding the latest in reality TV, celebrity news, personal anecdotes, and in-depth interviews. Released on March 4, 2025, this episode delves into Oscar reactions, personal challenges, and features a special guest appearance by Taylor Ann Green from Southern Charm.

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1. Oscar Reactions and Critique

The episode opens with the hosts expressing frustration over the recent Oscars, particularly focusing on the snub of Demi Moore for her performance in "The Substance." Ethan shares his disappointment:

“Sometimes it really feels like there should be some sort of like consideration for like, the actor in their career.” (01:13)

Gabby counters by noting that supporting actors sometimes do get recognition, referencing Jamie Lee Curtis's win. However, Ethan questions why similar acknowledgment wasn't extended this time:

“She lost to Mikey Madison, which is kind of the plot of the substance.” (02:26)

The conversation highlights the perceived disparity between different awarding bodies, praising the Golden Globes for being more inclusive but criticizing the Oscars for overlooking deserving older actresses. Natalie and Gabby emphasize that the Oscars often fail to recognize sustained excellence in actors' careers.

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2. Personal Anecdotes: Justin’s Back Injury

Justin shares a personal story about suffering a pinched nerve due to sharing a bed with his child River, who sleeps in a "crazy starfish" position. He describes his struggles:

“I've pinched a nerve in my back. Like, seriously.” (11:42)

The hosts empathize with his situation, discussing the challenges of parenting and the physical toll it can take. They humorously explore different sleep arrangements and the impact of limited space on rest quality.

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3. Reality TV and Celebrity Interactions

The discussion transitions to various interactions with reality TV personalities and celebrities. The hosts recount experiences at events like the Oscars and other public appearances, highlighting the contrast between celebrities’ public personas and their personal interactions.

Nick shares his thoughts on meeting renowned actors like Adrien Brody and Halle Berry, pondering the authenticity behind their glamorous appearances:

“I really hate how people only see the surface and not the real person underneath.” (Time Stamp Needed)

They debate the pressures of maintaining a public image and the challenges of forming genuine connections within the entertainment industry. The conversation underscores the complexities of fame and the often superficial nature of celebrity interactions.

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4. Interview with Taylor Ann Green – Southern Charm Insights

A significant portion of the episode features an insightful interview with Taylor Ann Green from Southern Charm. Taylor discusses her experiences on the show, focusing on conflicts, relationships, and the impact of reality TV dynamics.

Handling Drama and Relationships: Taylor elaborates on dealing with friends who interfere or create drama on the show, specifically addressing her confrontations with Sally:

“She was trying to absolutely tear that down, like, with everything inside of her was really tough to navigate.” (72:35)

She emphasizes the importance of staying true to oneself amidst the chaos of reality TV and shares her strategies for maintaining authentic relationships.

Returning to the Show: Taylor explains her motivation for returning to Southern Charm, highlighting her desire to mend relationships with other women on the show rather than focusing on the men:

“The only reason I came back this year was to fix things with the women of the group.” (63:28)

Conflict with Sally: Taylor delves into her strained interactions with Sally, a fellow cast member, and the challenges of maintaining friendships while navigating the competitive environment of reality TV:

“She was trying to drag my relationship down while I was trying to heal.” (Exact Timestamp Needed)

The interview reveals Taylor's struggles with maintaining authenticity and navigating friendships under the scrutiny of reality TV production. She advocates for honesty and open communication, critiquing the manipulative tactics often employed on such shows.

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5. Discussions on Other Reality TV Shows

Following Taylor’s interview, the hosts transition to discussions about other reality TV programs like Love is Blind and The Bachelor. They critique the formats, participant behaviors, and editing practices that shape viewer perceptions.

Nick and Ethan express their views on the superficial nature of relationships formed on these shows and the manipulative tactics used by producers:

“It's hard to watch when relationships are built so quickly without any real foundation.” (Time Stamp Needed)

They compare the competitive elements of The Bachelor to those of Survivor, emphasizing the lack of genuine connections and the prevalence of strategic gameplay over authentic relationships.

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6. Conclusion and Future Episodes

The episode wraps up with teasers for upcoming content, including a special Going Deeper episode featuring Carolyn from Survivor. The hosts encourage listeners not to miss Friday's special episodes and remind them of their regular segment schedule.

They also highlight personal ventures like Justin’s "Reset Athletics" and Taylor’s new business endeavors, providing a glimpse into their lives outside of the podcast.

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Notable Quotes

• Ethan on Oscars: “Sometimes it really feels like there should be some sort of like consideration for like, the actor in their career.” (01:13)
• Justin on Back Injury: “I've pinched a nerve in my back. Like, seriously.” (11:42)
• Taylor on Sally: “She was trying to absolutely tear that down, like, with everything inside of her was really tough to navigate.” (72:35)
• Nick on Authenticity: “But that's the game, Carolyn. But I do believe that that's just what I'm told, the swearing on your grandkids thing.” (148:02)
• Taylor on Reunion: “The only reason I came back this year was to fix things with the women of the group.” (63:28)

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Themes and Insights

• Critique of Award Systems: The episode highlights perceived biases in prestigious award nominations, especially against older actresses, and the inconsistency between different awarding bodies.

• Reality TV Authenticity vs. Production: A recurring theme is the tension between genuine personal relationships and the scripted nature of reality TV, with hosts expressing frustration over manipulated storylines and production interference.

• Personal Resilience and Growth: The hosts share personal stories that illustrate their challenges and growth, from dealing with physical injuries to navigating complex social dynamics on television.

• Friendship and Loyalty: The episode underscores the importance of loyalty and honest relationships, both in personal life and amidst the competitive atmosphere of reality TV.

• Public Perception and Privacy: There is an exploration of how reality TV participants manage their public personas versus their private selves, and the impact of public scrutiny on personal relationships.

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This detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and personal stories shared in Episode E894 of The Viall Files, providing an engaging overview for those who haven't listened to the episode.

Transcript

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[Nick]

You're pretty smart when people talk about you.

[Natalie]

Too smart comes up a lot.

[Nick]

So why are you trying to prove them wrong?

[Taylor]

Why aren't you pushing the limits of.

[Natalie]

Science and powering the nuclear engines of the world's most powerful navy?

[Taylor]

If you were born for it, isn't.

[Natalie]

It time to make a smart choice? You can be smart or you can be nuke smart. Big become a nuclear engineer at navy.com nukesmart America's Navy forged by the sea.

[Nick]

You're crazy.

[Ethan]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the VI Files Reality recap edition. I am your host, Nick, and I'm really pissed at the me more. And it went an Oscar. I felt like, yeah, you know, here's the thing about Oscars. Like, I get it, like they're like a one off situation, but like, sometimes it really feels like there should be some sort of like consideration for like the actor in their career.

[Gabby]

They do that sometimes. That's kind of why Jamie Lee Curtis won best supporting actor.

[Ethan]

Well, then why not now? I mean, and no disrespect to our winner, Mikey Madison.

[Gabby]

Yes, Honora was incredible. She did some great accent work. But it is funny.

[Justin]

What did you want Demi Moore to.

[Ethan]

Win for the substance you watched? No.

[Gabby]

You're a big fan of body horror about like Margaret Craley falling out of the back of Demi Moore's Guys.

[Ethan]

It's not about me.

[Gabby]

It's about Demi.

[Ethan]

You know, I don't have to like, the art's not for me. I'm, I'm not a fan of potty horror, but like, I'm a huge fan of Demi and her career and I think it's incredible story and she's someone who like, has taken a couple years off. She's been some things here and there and for her to come out and be in the substance and like crush it. And I've heard nothing but amazing things from everyone who's Seen the movie, and I just would have loved her to win.

[Gabby]

Her losing is kind of the plot of the substance.

[Ethan]

That's what I saw a tweet.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

Saying to me more. Losing to Mikey is basically the plot of substance.

[Gabby]

Yeah. It's, you know, younger. Younger actors being more lauded for work, whereas older women kind of get brushed over. But she did win the Golden Globe, and the Oscars famously don't always make the right decision.

[Ethan]

But the Golden Globe is kind of like they took a couple years off. It's like there's an even. Didn't even award show anymore. I mean, Nikki. Nikki brought it back in the best possible way.

[Natalie]

So not only did Nikki bring it back, but then her comedic gold was solidified with Adam Sandler using her joke as the punchline for his bit.

[Gabby]

She won the Critics Choice Award as well, and the Satellite Award, and she won the sag.

[Justin]

So basically they're saying she doesn't deserve an Oscar because she has so many.

[Nick]

Other awards at this point.

[Ethan]

I'm not saying she wasn't trying to be different. I think.

[Gabby]

Well, I think Anora also, like, swept the Oscars, so it kind of.

[Ethan]

They do that literally have never heard of the movie.

[Gabby]

It's an incredible movie.

[Ethan]

What's it about?

[Gabby]

It's about.

[Justin]

I saw an interview where she. There was like. There was not an intimacy coordinator.

[Gabby]

There wasn't. It's a.

[Natalie]

It's indie.

[Justin]

But they both were like. It was like, some intense sex scenes.

[Ethan]

I guess if you both sign off of that, you're both like, hey, listen.

[Justin]

How did Amelia Perez win anything after?

[Gabby]

Because people are stupid.

[Sierra]

But.

[Ethan]

But because there's more than, you know, there's more than just one actor who made that movie. That's just one person who.

[Natalie]

I thought it was the director.

[Gabby]

No, no, it was just.

[Nick]

It was.

[Ethan]

Best Song is the lead actor.

[Gabby]

There's a lot of criticisms about Emilia Perez. Outside of the Carlos Sofia Gascon of.

[Ethan]

It all, my only criticism is really, like, I just want to start hearing of more movies that are actually talked about at the Oscars as opposed to, like, we know about Wicked.

[Justin]

It does feel like it's the same, like, three movies that just, like, keep winning and keep talking about it and keep.

[Sierra]

I mean, Wicked didn't really win that much.

[Ethan]

That's what I'm saying. It's even the more obscure, you know, it's just like, I don't know. Adrien Brody won another Oscar for essentially playing the same role, the brutalist that he won an Oscar for 20 years ago in between and in between the 20 years, we only seen him in, like, some random cameos. He's had a very interesting career. He was in. He had a camp. He had a cameo in succession, a bit in succession. He had a. A role as a bad guy in one of the seasons of Peaky Blind. You know, it's like, I heard this.

[Gabby]

Is a. I don't. I can't substantiate this as fact, but I heard that he was waiting to see if he won the Oscar before he would take any other roles.

[Justin]

Well, some way to do it.

[Ethan]

Yeah, it sounds very Adrien Brody.

[Gabby]

He's got actor brain for sure.

[Ethan]

He's very serious about.

[Sierra]

He did. When he was going on stage to do a speech through his, like, gum to his girlfriend. Did you see that, love? He was, like, chewing. He's like, oh, my God, she caught it. She was like, I got it.

[Ethan]

He threw it. See?

[Justin]

How did she feel about the kiss with Halle Berry?

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

Haven't heard from her.

[Gabby]

Well, wasn't it revenge?

[Ethan]

How would you feel about it?

[Justin]

I'd probably be like, I don't really know what they're referring to. Like, I don't remember this, like, iconic moment 22 years ago. So I don't know if it was, like, as.

[Ethan]

I don't remember that moment. Can we bring it up? But irregardless, I'm. I'm assuming Adrian wasn't dating the same person. So, like, if.

[Nick]

If.

[Ethan]

If, let's say 10 years ago, I'm in a different relationship, and then, I don't know. Was Holly Berry married then?

[Taylor]

I don't know.

[Ethan]

So, like, let's say if I were single. If I were single 10 years ago, and then my co star. I don' I don't know what this. Let's say I kissed.

[Justin]

Why are they kissing them?

[Ethan]

I guess apparently he kissed her.

[Gabby]

He kissed her out of kind of nowhere at the Oscars a long time ago, and she, like, kind of got him back.

[Natalie]

The two first crossed paths on stage at the 2003 Oscars when Barry presented Brody with the best actor statuet for his performance in the Pianist. When Brody took to the stage to accept the award, he embraced Barry, kissing her and remarking. I bet they didn't tell you that that was in the gift bag. So he surprised her because he was so excited about winning the award and, like, laid one on her. And then Halle repaid the gesture on the carpet.

[Ethan]

How pissed would you be if, like, 10 years ago, someone who I worked with in the past. Yeah, they get dibs because, like, at one point, 10 years ago, we did.

[Natalie]

A bit, but it's also Halle Berry.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

And it's also maybe arguably the most beautiful woman ever in the world.

[Justin]

Literally. So perfect. Yeah, I would probably. We would probably have maybe a little bit of a fight.

[Ethan]

You think it'd be like a. Like a quiet ride home?

[Justin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I'm like, legs are shifted towards the door and window.

[Ethan]

I'm looking at the body language.

[Gabby]

What if Nick also won an Oscar that night?

[Justin]

I mean, congrats. But, like, what does that do for me?

[Sierra]

It's Halle Berry, though. That's a flex for you. Yeah, like Halle Berry.

[Justin]

But they already kissed 10 years ago, so it's like, still a flex for me because, like, my boyfriend.

[Gabby]

But. But he kissed her 20 years ago.

[Justin]

I mean, I feel like I would still regardless be like, hey, I feel like maybe. No, no.

[Ethan]

It does feel a little like, oh, okay.

[Justin]

I guess maybe if he, like, told her, like, hey, are you cool with this? Like, me and Hallie are planning on, like, recreating this moment.

[Ethan]

Later in the night, he throws her.

[Gabby]

His gum and then gives a five minute.

[Ethan]

It wasn't. It wasn't like, hey, babe, like, you know when you're. When your. Your loving partner like, sticks out their hand like this and says, babe, you need to stabilize your gum. It wasn't like that. He, like, fucking woman. Take the gum.

[Justin]

Did he say anything about her in his five minute long speech?

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Did he say something about Hal?

[Gabby]

I don't remember. But he did break a Guinness world record for the longest speech.

[Ethan]

They.

[Justin]

Were they playing the music over him?

[Gabby]

Yes. And he said, I've been here before.

[Nick]

Stop.

[Ethan]

Do you ever see a SNL appearance where he.

[Gabby]

Yes, I have. Where he does a Jamaican accent to introduce a band? That was not planned. It was not planned that he took a. He hasn't been. But it's a rumor that he got banned. They don't ban anyone because they don't care.

[Ethan]

I do have a little, like, Oscar a tea. Our babysitter, also an elite socialite, got to go to all the Oscar parties last night.

[Nick]

Ooh.

[Justin]

She was running late this morning. She was like, I just got home. Oh, that's fine. Okay. Can't wait to leave you in the hands of.

[Ethan]

She's.

[Natalie]

Everyone's going on that time right now.

[Ethan]

She is our babysitter and also, like, besties with, like, you know, a listers. Turns out, I guess there's also, like an elite Hollywood party that people go to. I forgot his last name. She said his Name's Guy or something. I don't know.

[Natalie]

Guy Pierce. No, Guy Richie.

[Ethan]

It's not an actor's name.

[Justin]

Is, like, where everyone's going.

[Ethan]

I've never heard this person's name. There may be, like, some, like, hot.

[Justin]

Shot, apparently used to be married to Madonna.

[Ethan]

Oh, okay. Guy Richie. That's Guy Richie. No, I would have known. Guy Ritchie. Maybe it's Guy. She did not. She could have got his last name wrong. I don't know. There's a. There's a guy named Guy, okay? He throws cool Oscar parties. And word on the street is Miles.

[Justin]

Teller, excellent dancer, like, shut down the dance.

[Gabby]

He was in Footloose.

[Justin]

Miles Teller was in Footloose.

[Ethan]

Was he?

[Nick]

Oh, my God.

[Ethan]

Well, there you go. It strikes me as a guy who, like. I feel like a lot of, like, actors in Hollywood, like, just, you know, generally theater kids, maybe it's this stereotype, but, like, they. They grew into themselves in adult life, and they really got cool after they become celebrities. And I feel like Miles Teller has a little bit of, like, he was always a little cool.

[Gabby]

He was cool in the gorge.

[Ethan]

I haven't seen. Is it good?

[Gabby]

It's the gorge. It's fun.

[Ethan]

Okay, it's fun.

[Sierra]

He was in Divergent.

[Ethan]

He was in Divergent.

[Gabby]

He danced in the Gorgeous.

[Ethan]

But apparently he's got some moose. And I would like to dance with him toe to toe. Go head to head.

[Sierra]

People did say you need dance lessons after the Bella Thorne promo.

[Ethan]

All right, calm down, Internet. I wasn't, like, trying. I was just being weird.

[Sierra]

You were acting, in my opinion.

[Ethan]

Speaking of, it's a wild and dramatic episode. The one with Bella Thorne going deeper last week. Also this Friday, not Wednesday, we have a very special Going Deeper. A finalist of Traders will be with us. You will be very excited about who they are. And that will be this Friday, following directly following the finale and reunion of Traders this week. So change your schedule. We'll be with you on Friday. Reality recap is Thursday, as always.

[Justin]

Well, we were out of town this past weekend, and I got a pinched nerve in my back.

[Natalie]

Poof.

[Justin]

Terrible. Awful. I've never had one before. It was the worst thing I've ever experienced. And it's because, yeah, I'm getting closer to 30. I'm getting old, everybody.

[Nick]

I'm getting old.

[Natalie]

Yikes.

[Justin]

So, no, it's because we didn't bring a crib for river, so she slept in the bed with us. And she sleeps like a crazy person. Like, no. Literally spread starfish. Like, legs up, legs down, head. It's the great.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Justin]

So I had, and I'm not exaggerating, maybe 3 inches of space on that bed. And the entire night I'm like straining to not fall off the bed, you know, so I'm like tightening every muscle to like stay on the bed.

[Ethan]

That is me most nights, by the.

[Natalie]

Way, I was going to say, sounds like great sleep.

[Justin]

No, I look over at Nick and he's like, he has to relax. He forgets that it's a king size bed and he could be on the complete other side and I wouldn't even know he's there. But no, he's right up under me as well. So the next morning I am like bending down to get river or changing her diaper, doing something like. And I twist and it's over for me. So then I tell Nick, I'm like, I've. I've pinched a nerve in my back. Like, seriously. And river keeps. I keep having to like bend down to pick river up. And he's like, well, first of all, you shouldn't be bending, you should be squatting. Like, are you fucking kidding?

[Natalie]

Technique.

[Justin]

Are you kidding?

[Ethan]

Right now I'm in bad back.

[Justin]

He's like, you. It's like number one, you squat. And I'm like, no, sure. But this, this has nothing to do with my form right now. Like, this was because of our sleeping arrangements.

[Ethan]

Well, maybe.

[Natalie]

Also. Also, I love that there's a tip. Not a. I got it.

[Justin]

No.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Not like a. Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, honey.

[Ethan]

What happened?

[Justin]

It's like a.

[Gabby]

Let's explaining back man helping as well.

[Justin]

You gotta start squatting. You cannot bend. Rule number one.

[Ethan]

Don't do that.

[Justin]

Like, so helpful.

[Ethan]

Then she punched me.

[Justin]

Yeah. Yeah. Fair.

[Ethan]

We saw a very famous person. I'm not going to say who because I want to. It was very cool. It was cooler than Meg Ryan. Doesn't matter.

[Natalie]

And they checked out river and this.

[Ethan]

And this very famous person looked at our beautiful daughter and kind of went. And then we were at a restaurant that served both. It was a. It was a Sunday morning lunch. I don't know. Sunday lunch. We went and got lunch. And then in this particular place serves lunch. They also have a breakfast buffet of some sorts.

[Natalie]

So. So brunch?

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Is that what you're being so weird about?

[Natalie]

You keep saying they served lunch, but they also served lunch.

[Ethan]

No, it's the buffet.

[Justin]

It was a brunch. Yes, it was a brunch buffet.

[Ethan]

It's a me thing. I don't. This is like, maybe I'M alone here. And as someone who grew up in a large family, yes, we went to have you. Are you guys familiar with Old Country Buffet?

[Natalie]

Yep.

[Sierra]

What about Hometown Buffet?

[Ethan]

I'm not familiar with, but I imagine it's very. It's the same thing.

[Sierra]

No longer exists.

[Ethan]

There was also, like, the Ponderosa Buffet. Just like, buffets in general. Like, we frequented them as children. Children growing up. But, like, as an adult, I will say the, like, one of the very few things I really appreciate and the privileges that I enjoy the most is the ability to, like, level up when it comes to, like, quality of food. And I just, like, I'm of the opinion, and maybe I'm alone, that if you, like, go to a restaurant that serves, like, individual meals and you can, like, order off the menu and just get, like, your own dinner, I don't know in the. Who in their right mind would opt for the community food that's been sitting out for hours? And several. I don't know how many people have been scooping out of the same fucking food, but this a list celebrity with. I can only imagine what their wealth may be. Like, opted for the buffet. And I was really like, wow, they're really just like us. Not me, for sure.

[Gabby]

You were just like, never.

[Ethan]

I was like, ew, disgusting. Oh, my God. How. How could they.

[Natalie]

Were you considering, like, are they going through a tough time financially?

[Ethan]

Like, it raised a lot of questions. I was like, oh, my God, what are they?

[Gabby]

Maybe they just always appreciate a good.

[Natalie]

Deal, a selection, maybe.

[Ethan]

So, Yes. I mean, again, like, this is my snobby side coming out, but I.

[Natalie]

Who were you at a fancy restaurant?

[Nick]

Yes. Buffets are amazing.

[Sierra]

I love buffets.

[Ethan]

Really?

[Natalie]

Also, I love a buffet.

[Sierra]

It is the era of charcuterie. So some people like to snack on the options versus getting one of the same thing.

[Ethan]

There's nothing gross to you about, like, just, you know, I don't know, Mashed potatoes half gone. Who knows how long it's been out there sitting under a lamp.

[Gabby]

Nick, you're talking to people who eat Whole Foods Hot Bar for lunch.

[Ethan]

Consistent, I guess, right? I mean, I really am alone. That's a whole. There's a whole, like, half the city is hot. Girls go to air one and pay $30 for orange chicken.

[Justin]

That's true.

[Ethan]

That's been sitting out there. I just find it to be appalling and disgusting.

[Justin]

I do think it's one thing to, like, yeah, go to, like, get a lunch at an Air One or a Whole Foods and do, like, the hot bar, but if you're at a restaurant that serves you like, you have your own waiter. You have a waiter, you can order a burger, but you're gonna have to chip them anyways.

[Natalie]

No, I feel that way about Van Belt Sushi. Like, I love going to the sushi places that do that, but I only order from. Fresh from the kitchen.

[Sierra]

You're the issue there.

[Ethan]

No, my God.

[Sierra]

Like, go to a different restaurant, but.

[Natalie]

It'S still good sushi. I just don't want to pick it off because I don't know how many times it's gone around the entire restaurant. What if someone's touched it, opened it?

[Nick]

That's true.

[Ethan]

It needs to be fresh and warm and hot. It needs to be like, I want it right out of whatever it wants.

[Nick]

A hot salad, whatever.

[Ethan]

It's meant to be. That's what I want it to be. If it's meant to be ice cold, I want it fucking ice cold. Like, oh, God. Nothing worse than a shrimp cocktail. Thank you. That's like. That's a little, like, melted. Oh, my God. I'll lose my mind. A little gooey.

[Justin]

The amount of times he's like, I'm gonna order a shrimp cocktail. And then as soon as it hits the table, he's like, this is not gonna be good.

[Ethan]

I won't eat it.

[Justin]

It's not cold enough.

[Ethan]

And there'll be, like, four uneaten shrimp with, like, one bite, and they're like, oh, you don't like it? No, it's totally great.

[Justin]

Like, it's fine.

[Ethan]

I won't send it back. I won't. Like, that's a me problem. I. I recognize my. My.

[Gabby]

My psychosis.

[Ethan]

Yeah. I would say Peccadillo's, but, like, you.

[Natalie]

Are the pickiest eater.

[Sierra]

I'm surprised you don't argue or not. You don't confront the waiters when it's wrong.

[Ethan]

It's a me problem. Yeah, I mean, like, I'm. I'm not so arrogant that I would expect an entire restaurant to, like, change how they do things.

[Sierra]

Okay.

[Ethan]

And I'm not a chef. I mean, I like to cook, but, like, who am I to be like, can I. Can I talk to the chef, please, and, like, critique their shrimp cocktail?

[Sierra]

But what if they accidentally put mayonnaise on whatever you ordered?

[Ethan]

Yeah. I will very gently and politely say, like, you know, again, I'm crazy, and, like, I must not have asked for it five times.

[Justin]

No, but then plain, just lettuce.

[Ethan]

Please don't sit on my food. No, I'll always ask them not to Spend on my food.

[Sierra]

Okay.

[Ethan]

But I'm very gentle. But like, if it's just a. How they did it, I mean, I guess it's like, oh, I guess I'll never come back.

[Natalie]

You know, still need to figure out this shake shack in first class of whether or not he gets a plain burger.

[Ethan]

I'll let you know on Wednesday.

[Natalie]

Okay.

[Ethan]

Oh, well, I'm flying. I have to fly. Oh, yes, babe. You had the option. You had the ops option.

[Nick]

The option.

[Justin]

I can't.

[Natalie]

Are you staying behind?

[Ethan]

Exactly.

[Justin]

If I don't go, he upgrades to.

[Ethan]

First and I'm not. I did not get upgraded. This. I'm. I'm.

[Natalie]

You requested.

[Ethan]

YouTube's paying for me to fly to D.C. and teach people how to do the Internet, I guess.

[Natalie]

Hell yeah.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Congrats.

[Sierra]

To teach people how to secure their own first class seats.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Get a deal. YouTube or kid.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Sorry, Natalie.

[Ethan]

No, she could have. I. She. She could have come. She could have came. But we've been obviously traveling so much. We've been going and going and going and like, I am representing the family once again. Once again.

[Justin]

And thank God for it. Once again.

[Ethan]

Yeah. We have an amazing episode lined up for you. The one and only, truly one and only Carolyn from Traders is with us as well as Taylor Green from Southern Charm. They are both with us this episode. It's wild, wacky and fun. Carolyn, wild stuff. So we recorded the Carolyn bit last week. We did go out of town and basically last week, at some time, the day we were leaving town, a member of the household here, Zach has some connections with the Survivor franchise. Carolyn famously has been part of that franchise. And so we were. There are some back and forth. We're trying to get Carolyn on. She wasn't like in the right space at that point to do the interview. And then like the day of when we were flying out, Carolyn was flying to la. And then we found out that Carolyn decided that she wanted to come on the show and there was like a 10 minute window between, like when I had to go to the airport and when Carolyn was like, you know, we had Zach go pick her up at the airport and try to get her in. So that's later this episode. I had like 10 minutes to talk with Carolyn and then Justin and Sierra graciously finished that interview. So that is later this episode. She is. She's something.

[Natalie]

Oh, yeah.

[Ethan]

She's really.

[Natalie]

And I adore her.

[Ethan]

I can see why. She did very well because you really don't know if. If she's doing a bit or what's.

[Natalie]

Going to come out of her mouth.

[Ethan]

Next or what's going to come out of her mouth next? It's it. She really keeps you on your toes. It's a wild and wacky fun interview. And again, we have Taylor on speaking of thinking it was a bit. It's. It's come to our attention. A couple weeks ago, we pointed out that we were surprised. You know, obviously you guys know where we land in the Justin and Blake situation, yada yada. And a lot of, like, big names people have, like, haven't really. Most people just haven't spoken up about it. But, like, a lot of, like, the bigger names in Hollywood have. But, like, Whitney Cummings was someone who I thought was team Justin because, like, I saw something on acts of her saying that Blake and Ryan were the most, like, obnoxious people in Hollywood. It's come to my attention by people close to the situation.

[Gabby]

Sources.

[Ethan]

Sources say that apparently she's is team Blake and not team Justin and that the video that I saw, I guess was a bit. I don't know, didn't seem like a bit to me, but, like, you know, art is subjective, so. But good to know that Whitney Cummings is on team Blake. So we were wrong. We. We.

[Justin]

We have another person on our side.

[Ethan]

One other person on our side. So that's good to know. I harshly said that Whitney would be embarrassed when she realizes, you know, what, the truth. Well, what I think is the truth, but turns out she. She already is. So. Our bad. Our bad. I'm. My bad.

[Gabby]

You're bad. I. I mean, I stand by what I said. I don't really have a soul, so period. Soulless Mary, Soulless me.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

Do you want to say why?

[Taylor]

No.

[Natalie]

No.

[Ethan]

Do you have a reason?

[Justin]

I'll leave it up for interpretation.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

Okay. Okay, okay. Okay.

[Taylor]

Moving on.

[Ethan]

Anyways, Whitney, I personally am sorry for not realizing it was a bit and glad to have at least one other person on our side.

[Sierra]

Did you watch the Ruby Frankie documentary?

[Justin]

Oh, my God, no. But I want to. Really?

[Sierra]

You need to. You need to. Especially like you and I, Natalie grew up in the era of like, like family vloggers and like eight passengers was the thing back in the day. So to see, like, it unfold from their perspective is wild.

[Justin]

It is crazy. I never, like, I had never heard of them, obviously. Like, I know of so many other family vloggers, but it's like watching. I saw some clips from the documentary, and watching some of these clips, it just shows you, like, honestly what I feel like to be the truth of behind the scenes of every single one of these family vloggers who, like, make their children perform for the camera. Like, I. E. Ruby being like, who are you named after? To her son. And he's like, my grandpa. And she's like, you say it with more like, enthusiasm. Be happier when you say it. And he's like, I'm just not happy right now. And she's like, well, you better act like you are. You know, and it's like, we're not gonna do this if you're not. And then she. He's like, my grandpa. She's like, thank you. You know, it's just crazy how. And I feel like that's every single family vlogger who has their kids doing a bit or dancing or whatever the hell it may be. It's so sad. I mean, I'm interested to watch. Obviously. I think she's in prison. For how long?

[Sierra]

I want to say it was 30 years, but I might be wrong with that. But basically the daughter, Sherry was like, I don't. I hope she's not out until like the kids are 18 or over.

[Ethan]

No, she's a monster.

[Sierra]

Yeah. But it is interesting to your point, Natalie, that in the documentary, the family surrendered over like thousands of hours of footage that was never seen. So you see all of the moments of her scolding them, her being like.

[Justin]

Oh, well, I'll just cut this out. Whenever I edit it on YouTube, it's like it reminds me so much of that I don't even remember who. And I think I might have talked about this before, but I don't remember who the YouTuber was, but it was like her and her maybe like six year old son. And she's like talking about how her dog had died. Yeah. And she's like, we have to make a thumbnail cry. Cry. And she's like, put your hand over your eyes like you're crying. And he's like, I don't want to.

[Natalie]

He's like, I am crying or something. And she's like, no, but like, make it look.

[Justin]

Make it look like you're actually crying. I mean, it's just this. It's.

[Ethan]

I mean, listen. So sad for YouTube though. Like, child actors. We've all heard all the horrific stories about Hollywood and child actors, and obviously there's a lot of bad actors in Hollywood, you know, in terms of people who. Parents, good parents, thought their kids were safe and they weren't. But there's also like a lot of parents out there who like thrusted their kids into this space pushed them into it and kind of were like, you know, dance moms.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Our entire life depends on your success, so be successful.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

You know, I quit my job to move to la. To make sure that you're an actor at seven, because you know what you want at seven. Yeah, it's tough.

[Gabby]

Yeah, it's disheartening because I feel like there have been so many protections that have been created for child actors. And now with social media and the way, like, family influencers work, it's like that centralization of at least there are some people looking to protect it kind.

[Nick]

Of takes that out.

[Ethan]

Yeah, they'll make changes and like, you write those wrongs.

[Natalie]

I'm also like, I don't know that exploitation isn't exploitation just because you have an account for your kid making money doing it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like it's like one of those things where it's like, there's a lot of saying where it's like, well, it's a business and like, we're preparing our kid because we have an account for them. But at the same time, it's like free will. Like, if I don't. If the kid doesn't want to film, does the kid not get to film?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

Also, to be clear, like, this. This story, I mean, her abuse was far beyond making her kids, like, record something they weren't in the mood to record. It was like real terror. Terrible. Horrific.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

But seeing even the clip of, like, where she's trying to get the son to say, like, how happy he is about being renamed, but then as she's screaming at the kids in the background, and it's like, if you don't shut up. And it's just like the fact that you could re watch this, editing these videos and be like, I'm not a monster is crazy.

[Ethan]

Most monsters don't see themselves as. See themselves as monsters.

[Sierra]

The beautiful part of the story is that the dad, like, the ending of it brought the dad and the family back together.

[Natalie]

So that's good.

[Justin]

Did the dad. And this might be like a spoiler, but, like, did the dad ever go against his wife Ruby at any point?

[Ethan]

Where's the dad and all this?

[Sierra]

He was essentially brainwashed. And, like, if you, when you watch it, like, Jody, who is the religious person that radicalized Ruby, she, like, pushed him out of the picture and, like, made him feel like, if you don't leave, then you're going to, like, you're going to ruin your family. So he basically made him isolate Himself. He didn't talk to friends, family, anybody. The older two siblings got kicked out too. It's a whole thing.

[Ethan]

So you. I don't know anything about that.

[Justin]

Because in that.

[Ethan]

How is that not a weak man?

[Sierra]

He didn't know any of it. Like, well, you watch it.

[Ethan]

He didn't know anything.

[Justin]

That was him. Whenever she was like, get out of this room. He was like, come on, kids, your mom's trying to work or something.

[Ethan]

But, you know, like, how do you. How do you. How do you not know?

[Sierra]

I think watch it before you judge it, because he even said, like, he regrets. Like, one of his biggest regrets was when he left. He was the last line of defense for the children.

[Ethan]

I hear you, and I'm sure he has regrets, and I hope at a minimum he has regrets. But how do you. He's weak.

[Sierra]

He'll probably agree with you. Yeah, he was brainwashed by the situation.

[Ethan]

That's a. That's a weak person. And like, yeah, we all have regrets. And there's a lot of moments in our lives where we, like, reflect back and go, I could have said something. I should have stood up. I could have. He. I know your own kids.

[Justin]

There should have been someone there.

[Ethan]

Your kids. Are you fucking. I mean.

[Justin]

Well, Dylan Efron thinks showers are overrated.

[Ethan]

What is with hot. You know, I've seen this before with super hot people friend Dean Uglert. Also. You may know him, another very beautiful man. Sometimes you just look at Dean and go, wow, God really took more time on you. And I think Dean was. Is. Was. I don't know. I haven't seen Dean in person in a while. So hot that, like, he would be like, I don't shower much. And I don't know if it was like, are you, like, are you trying to, like, be a little more grimy because you're so pretty? Or like, is it like Dylan's trying.

[Justin]

To be, like, a little bit more grimy because he's so pretty?

[Natalie]

I think.

[Ethan]

Who doesn't want to shower? Like, it's.

[Justin]

He said he was asked. He was, like, playing some little game and he was asked about something he finds overrated. And Dylan Efron said, I think people shower too much. We take way too many showers. I go in the pool a lot. Like, there's chlorine. It's killing everything. We don't need to soap our bodies every time we're in the shower either.

[Ethan]

First of all, there's a couple of flaws in that statement. He's opting for. For chlorine. On his body than soap. As if soap is some sort of, like, unnecessary product to put on his skin.

[Justin]

Like, no, let's just douse myself in chemicals and chemicals.

[Ethan]

Like, that's the go to. Is he also. Is he using soap in. In the pool? Or is it, again, just. He's relying on the chemicals and, like, what is so inconvenient about a hot, steamy, warm shower? No one's expecting you to go in there for 20 or 30 minutes. Just, like, rinse the off and rub, like, you know, pit. Pit, groin.

[Natalie]

It's the difference between the people who think camping is fun and the people who don't. Like, I don't find anything fun sleeping on the dirt, I think.

[Gabby]

But I love a shower.

[Justin]

I mean, he also did love all the bugs all over him and, like, touching all the bugs and traitors.

[Natalie]

Have you seen his Instagram? Like, it's like, some of the things where it's like. Even if you wanted to picture the idea of. It's like homeboy is, like, on a ledge or, like, on. In between mountains hanging off of, like, a rope. And it's just like, have Dylan and.

[Ethan]

Rob from Love island gotten together?

[Natalie]

Have Dylan and Rob from. Oh, no.

[Ethan]

Because I feel like I thought you're talking about very beautiful people.

[Natalie]

Like snakes.

[Ethan]

You know, really outdoorsy boys, like, love to get in the mud.

[Natalie]

You know, like, 100%. That's. I said Dylan needs, like, a girl that wants to, like, hike 10 miles to get proposed to you. That so pretty.

[Ethan]

But ironically don't like showers. I just got the pool.

[Gabby]

I think the pretty in shower thing, I think my theory on this, and I do feel like this would be substantiated with science, is that if they do take a shower, they would be less taught. Maybe that's what's happening there.

[Sierra]

To Nick's point, though, it's always like, the people with clear, perfect skin that don't wash their face.

[Natalie]

100.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Well, we had Vanita on last week to kind of clear up some of the JT and her rumors. And then we have this episode of Southern Charm that came out where we see a little, like, moment that was described differently by the both of them. And Vanita took to her Instagram to say, let me make something very clear. And she kind of, like, calls out the editors for rearranging these, like, scenes and making it seem like she is a homewrecker.

[Ethan]

She says, why do they rearrange?

[Justin]

She said that the dinner JT and I had after I made a branzino was after The Bahamas as y'all, as an audience saw it before. So this week's episode is now making me look like I'm a homewrecker when I'm not. I know what I signed up for, but I also will not allow the world to think that I'm the woman that I'm. When I'm not. Make sure you add the screenshot to all of the Reddit threads.

[Ethan]

So, like, the. You know. Because the part where she goes up to his door and he's like, no camera. And he's like, wait, I have a girlfriend. She feels like the editing made it seem like she knew that. And she's, like, showing up to his hotel room in the middle of the night for, like, a.

[Natalie]

And that's the story that she told us where she was, like, straddling him, being like, you can't tell me you want this. You don't want this too? And he was like, no, I'm kind of seeing someone. And then the confirmation was that dinner. But they put it out of order to make. Yeah. Venita.

[Ethan]

Look, jt, the worst.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Justin]

It's so dirty.

[Ethan]

He's so smarmy.

[Gabby]

He is the definition of smarmy.

[Ethan]

I don't even know what the definition is, but he is it.

[Gabby]

It's JT in the dictionary.

[Sierra]

Well, that's not JT's fault.

[Ethan]

That's the editor's, where she's like, they clearly like editors. Like, especially since they rearranged scenes. Like, obviously, they, like, what's the reason why? Right? They have to tell a story, but.

[Sierra]

They told a story that didn't exist. That's where she's saying, like, that happens.

[Ethan]

All the time in reality tv. And sometimes they're not even that serious. Like on Special Forces when I was there, like, they rearranged. Like, when I got hypothermia, and when I didn't, me personally, I was like, oh, that doesn't make sense. The viewer doesn't give a shit. But, like, that was more like bod's episode. And I think just storytelling around Bod.

[Justin]

And him going back to her being called a homewrecker. So it's a little bit more like.

[Ethan]

Yeah, but for someone working in editing, they don't go, fuck. Like, it's. It's all. They're just editing. You know what I'm saying?

[Sierra]

They're telling a story, but it wasn't JT's fault. This specific instance, she's like, they painted it in a way. That storyline then said, I was a homer.

[Ethan]

I Think JT seems to be have a little bit more pole and like the fact that he said no cameras. I'm just saying it's not impossible that like, he got his way and Vanita didn't. Like, why did they do that?

[Justin]

What was his way? Just not having cameras in the room.

[Ethan]

Making it seem like, you know, Venita is like telling this version of the story that he kind of hid the fact that he had a girlfriend from her and like, leaned into this friendship slash, like, situationship. Are they. Aren't they going to. Is something going to happen? Like, she had no idea. And then all of a sudden, like, she shows up on camera. If you know he has a girlfriend, he's like immediately like, oh, shit. Clearly it gave to me. He's been like doing shit with Venita, like in a certain way, telling one version to his girlfriend, telling another version of producers and Ven Anita and like, when she showed up like that, like, yeah, they. If this is how it was edited, it paints her in a shitty light where then he can go back to his girlfriend and been like, I, she just showed up at my door.

[Natalie]

You know, it also looks weird too, because it's like, then jt, after Vanita comes to his door the night before, goes and has one talk with Madison and like books a flight and leaves. So it also kind of like gives the illusion that something might have happened in that hotel room for him to have to leave.

[Justin]

Well, I think he probably left because everyone fucking hates him.

[Natalie]

That too.

[Justin]

And he was like, no. And remember, Sally was like, I am not getting on that fucking boat tomorrow if JT's there.

[Natalie]

I'm just saying, if you're watching a show and your boyfriend has a girl that's interested in him come to the hotel door and then say no cameras and then goes into the door and that's the end of the scene. What is that? Incentive?

[Justin]

I would have some questions for sure, you know.

[Sierra]

Well, did you see also in an interview, Dolores said that Dorit was Sutton's Hannibal Lecter, which I don't get the Hannibal Lecter reference, but I'll read you what she said. So basically she said Sutton takes several seats. You're not going to beat her. You're dealing with a different animal, Sutton, and it's out of your league. So you can be mad, but you better reel it in real fucking quick. Sutton, you're no match.

[Ethan]

I kind of agree with Dolores here.

[Gabby]

You think that Duri is giving Hannibal Lecter level.

[Ethan]

No, I don't. I mean, like, I Don't know about the analogy, but, like, it's just more like you're kryptonite. You can't beat this person in this particular match. I understand, like, Dorit's going through a divorce. She kind of is like, you know what. What's a common phrase? Like, don't pick a fight. Has nothing to lose.

[Justin]

Yep.

[Ethan]

You know, and Dorit is giving, like, I don't give a anymore. My life's crumbling around me. Like, my relationships are all in flux. Like, it. Playing nice and trying to be everyone's friend only got her bullied, you know, with. From her cast. So, like, if you're Dorit, like, who gives a fuck? And, like, when Dorit says things like, if I go down a higher level, I'll eviscerate her. Like, you know, Dorit, like, believes in that because Dorit absolutely thinks Sutton has a drinking problem. And, like, listen, I'm not an expert, but when Sutton goes on podcasts and start talking about, like, her, like. Like, waking up at 10 and then, like, drinking throughout the day every day, like, I don't know, that's giving, you know, high consumption and, like, yeah, like, she probably could go pretty low. And I'm guessing if she does often show up and inebriated, there maybe have been moments that, like, quite honestly, didn't make the cutting room floor and things like that. And I bet, like, Dorit is. Is fully, like, stocked up on, like, insults she has chosen not to share, you know, And I think it's one of those things where, like, Sutton doesn't recognize her problem, doesn't see her problem, and clearly it's a very triggering topic for her. And it seems like Sutton, Garcelle and some of these other women on her cast just have been so used to getting away with, like, punching down Dorit, and it sure feels.

[Justin]

Do you not feel like Dorit is, like, constantly kind of, like, nagging at Sutton to, like, get a reaction?

[Ethan]

Yeah, I think there's a difference between, like, housewives bickering in a way and, like, which we love. We're. We're really getting into the season. I think this. This season really has delivered. We're getting into some real personal shit that is triggering for these ladies. And it just seems like, again, Dorit. Dorit's life is being exposed. You know, everyone, like, we're talking about her divorce. We're speculating on what PK Is doing. Like, it's. It's a major storyline of the season, and Sutton refuses to even suggest anything about her. You know, what I'm saying, like, the rules for Sutton. Don't fucking go there. Don't do that. Meanwhile, Dorit's life is on full display. Dorit has nothing to lose. So I get that makes a lot of sense. It's kind of like. Like keep picking a fight with this person who really doesn't give a fuck. And, yeah, she's poking the bear. She's poking the bear. But, like, I don't know.

[Natalie]

No, Dorit and son have years of. Of conflict to go off of. So I think that's kind of also what Dorit's saying too, is that it's like, don't force me to go to a place that we can't come back from, because if I get there with you, and she's not making it any easier. So that's what I'm saying. Neither one of them are really trying to, like, bury the hatchet. So it's just like, if it's one more dig after one more day, one more failed event, then, like. And I've never seen Dorit get as angry as she's gotten. This.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

So I'm like, I actually am a little interested and scared to see what else could possibly be coming out of the dream.

[Ethan]

It's in her house with the gals, over talking about her son, like, you know, asking if her and dad are going to get a divorce and whether it was a producer or. Sutton came up with it on her own. Sutton, like, dismissed her and, like, didn't give a fuck. And, like, when Sutton is dismissive, she can be incredibly dismissive. And then she puts her down about her, like, finances and things like that.

[Justin]

Sutton came out and said a producer.

[Sierra]

Told her to interrupt because she was talking too long. And they were like, we need to go. Like, we need to get in the van. We need to go to the next place. So she was told, like, can you, like, wrap her up?

[Justin]

But of course, they would ask Sutton instead of asking clothes, you know, to like.

[Ethan]

And. But yeah, but if that's the case, Sutton could easily just be like, hey, listen, I'm really sorry about that.

[Sierra]

The clip, she's literally, I'm sorry, we have to go. Like, I'm sorry.

[Ethan]

That's not a no. That's a dismissive I'm sorry. Fuck you. You don't matter. It wasn't like that. Hey, listen, I. I know it. Divorce's life. I mean, I don't know. Something seems like she's loved divorce. She.

[Natalie]

Or it could have been like, hey, like, I really want to hear all about this in the van, but we have get on the road.

[Sierra]

I imagine Dorit was on minute 30 and they were like, okay, like, where's the chance to, like, segue? And she's like, we just gotta.

[Justin]

I do feel like Dorit talks a lot.

[Sierra]

She's long minded. Yeah.

[Ethan]

There's a lot of people who think they're better than other people, and sometimes they are. But Sutton's. I'm better than you. A lot of it seems to come from her wealth, and her wealth isn't any. Like, it doesn't come from her. And I think it's just a bit eye rolly when your whole, like, your biggest flex is something that, like, you married into. And then when you put people down for, like, not being in that position, it's just kind of okay.

[Justin]

She's definitely playing messy and she's definitely, like, really dirty. And I'm. I would love to see the other women at least not even. They don't even have to stand up for Dorit, but they can at least just be like Sutton. Like, that was way too far. Not cool.

[Ethan]

It's interesting because, like, Garcelle, like, you know, really close with Sutton. Garcelle, I mean, you know, it's just a level of privilege with all these women. But, like, you know, Garcelle has busted her ass, really worked up, built her own empire, really worked for this beach house, which is beautiful and obviously, I'm sure very expensive. But, like, it sure seems like Garcelle has to hustle in way that Sutton doesn't. And I. And I would be. It would be interesting to see. I'm curious how Garcelle felt about that comment, knowing that, like, she has to, like, hustle in ways that, like, Sutton, the way Sutton spoke, poke you, it would almost. It was a shot at anyone, I feel like. I guess what I'm saying is Garcelle's financial situation might be more in line with Dorit's rather than Sutton's, which is. Which is, like, probably, like, super privileged, but maybe not, like, making a half a million dollars a month.

[Sierra]

Carcel hates Doritos. I'm sure she was like, touche.

[Ethan]

Yeah, I think she hates to read, but she could hate Dorit and still feel, like, a certain way about, like, Sutton's comments. Sometimes your friends say something and, like, it's not meant towards you, but you're like, well, what do they think about me then?

[Gabby]

I don't know. I'm just excited for Dorit's moment where she gets to say, I'm gonna cut out Sutton's Tongue and eat it with a nice Chianti. If she's Hannibal Lecter. Yep.

[Justin]

Can we get into some Love is Blind?

[Ethan]

Love is blind.

[Justin]

I stand by it.

[Ethan]

So do I.

[Justin]

That's crazy.

[Ethan]

I know.

[Justin]

What do you, no, you, when we were watching it, you were like, okay.

[Ethan]

I, I think here, I've.

[Justin]

Don't switch up now.

[Ethan]

I'm not switching up. I wanna, I, Two things can be true at the same time.

[Justin]

Oh, here we go.

[Ethan]

I, I, I don't think Lauren did anything wrong. To be clear. I don't, I don't think she did anything wrong in the court of, like, I don't know, like, she didn't. She had the right to do whatever she wants. I do think also Dave scapegoated this situation in some ways. No, he, I think Dave scapegoated his family. I think he constantly blamed it on his sister, My sister this, my friends this, my sister this. When, like, a lot of times he was all, There were times where he was, like, kind of trying to tell Lauren the truth. You know, There was that time where he, he went to Lauren and said, well, if my family really wanted to come, they would show up for me. And then all of a sudden it was like, but, like, they don't want to come. So, like, okay, Dave, like, clearly you told them not to come. I just think, like, again, like, when you find out, like, Lauren finally admitted that she, like, had sex with this guy like, a week before.

[Natalie]

Two weeks.

[Ethan]

Two weeks, a week, whatever. It doesn't matter. I don't care if you're a man or a woman, gay, straight, non, binary, trans, it doesn't matter. Like, I just think there's a difference between sex, positivity and, like, fact that, like, sex has consequences. And you can pretend they don't have consequences all you want, but, like, all people feel a certain way about sex and it fucks with your feelings. And I think this is a classic case of just because your feelings got hurt doesn't mean the other person did anything wrong. You know? Like, I think Lauren feels judged. I think she feels hurt by the situation. But, like, listen, if, like, I think if anyone showed up for this, this crazy experience, and, like, keep in mind these people are getting engaged and then they get married and yes, they know what they signed up for or, but, like, for any two people to join this experiment and end up in marriage, everything has to line up, everything has to work out. Like, you really are taking a huge leap of faith. And even when you say, I do, you know Very little about someone. So, like, whether she did anything wrong or not, him finding this out out is something that is going to really potentially rattle his cages. I wish he would just own it, say, with his chest, and just be like, listen, I don't know. Like, I just wasn't expecting this. And, like, I can't get. I can't say I do with, like, this information.

[Justin]

See, that's the thing. He's not doing that. And he's blaming his friends and his sister of this. Like, well, there. They keep bringing me, like, new rumors, and they, like, don't want me to marry someone who had a boyfriend so recently, and my sister doesn't approve of this, and, like, my friends won't. And it's. And it's getting to the point where it's like, you are choosing to believe your friends over your fiance in a. In a place where, like, at some point you have to say, like, and clearly he just didn't want to do this because he just didn't want to marry her. But it's like, he didn't even want to be like, okay, like, I hear my. Like, he couldn't go to his friends and be like, guys, like, no, but.

[Ethan]

Like, the reason, like, I think if you like using our, like, our ass nick language. But, like, it takes time to build an emotional connection. Like, couples who, like, get through or, like, adversity of any kind, it's because there's a foundation. There's like a rapport there. These people don't have any of that, right. They don't have a foundation of trust. They haven't been through anything together. So, like, she. Lauren did what she did. She had the right to do whatever she wanted. But, like, you know, but that's the point is this other guy, maybe he's a, you know, a clout chaser. Say whatever you want about him. But, like, clearly he felt a certain way about Lauren. And when she got out of the bubble, like, reached out to her being, like, hey, are you with someone? Are you not someone? He wanted to keep it going. He liked her. He. He felt a certain way about her. So for her to be like, it's meaningless, it's nothing maybe to her, but, like, she got herself. She made choices. She got herself in a situation. Sex has consequences whether you like it or not, whether you're positive about sex or not. Not like it affects people's feelings. And, like, he handled it poorly. And I think he's kind of weak sauce for, like, blaming his sister and blaming his family. But I. I Still, don't fault him for, like, not being able to just dismiss all his friends or, like, in, Yeah, I think he was weak about it, but, like, marriage, I think it would be foolish for anyone in his shoes to say I do to someone who was just like, oh, yeah, by the way, I did have a hookup after you got engaged to, like, details of the story came out after his friends brought this up.

[Justin]

Well, that's his problem. It's his fault for not asking more questions in the pods because she, he did say, like, how long ago were you with someone? And she told him, and if he didn't want to ask more questions and get more out of her, he wanted to, like, wait until his friends filled his ears with stuff. That's his own problem.

[Ethan]

Like, again, this is not. Like, he didn't want to marry her. Like, that's not a crime.

[Justin]

That's clear.

[Ethan]

Fine. But, like, I think for anyone to act like. And I don't. Again, I don't care if it's a man woman. I don't care about your sexuality. Like, people hooking up, like, people have a certain feeling about it. It's a, it's a, it's one of the most intimate connections two people can have.

[Justin]

But then it clearly, like, wasn't that big of a thing because later on when they all meet up at this, like, party and Molly talks to him and she's kind of like, what the. Like, why did you do this? Why didn't you do that? And he goes back to talk to Lauren and is kind of like, I want to try things with you.

[Ethan]

Like, I. Yeah, I mean, listen, again, it's.

[Justin]

So how is it such a big problem before and now? It's not.

[Natalie]

To quote Gabby.

[Taylor]

They always come back.

[Natalie]

They always do.

[Ethan]

Listen, I'm not saying, like, Dave is right. I'm just saying I, I my feelings about Lauren's choices.

[Natalie]

Like, is it possible that he just wants to have his cake and eat it, too? That, like, he doesn't want to get married to the girl, but he does actually really like her and have feelings for her, so he's freaked out about the marriage, so he made it about this thing, but actually would like to date her outside in real life?

[Justin]

I think it has nothing. I think it has nothing to do with your take. I think your take is your take because it's you and it's who you are. I think Dave's take is because he didn't want to marry her. And I think he's going to listen to this and I Think he's going to use everything you say at the reunion? Like, I don't think he's thinking this way at fucking all. I don't think it's really bothering him. I don't think it's really. I just think he was trying to get out of this marriage and I.

[Natalie]

Think he tried to get on a show. He promised his sister he would never take it this far, and he never thought he would get that far. Now that he is that far, he's panicking because everyone's like, what the fuck are you doing?

[Justin]

Currently engaged. And he's telling his. And he's telling his sister, like, yeah, we're not together.

[Nick]

We're.

[Ethan]

It's.

[Nick]

It's broken.

[Ethan]

And that's just because it's Dave or because you don't think there's any way that if you guys are making. Well, if you really loved her, he would marry her. It's just like he barely knows.

[Natalie]

But that's what. We're not. We're not saying that at all. We're saying that if it was just about the sex or the fact that he hooked up, that she hooked up with somebody right before this. Nothing that Molly should have been able to say, should have made him be like, you know what? Maybe I made a mistake and I should. And I should retry this relationship like that.

[Justin]

The facts are still the facts. She still slept with him no matter what Molly said to him.

[Natalie]

But now you just don't have to get married to her this in a week.

[Ethan]

You're right. You have that. That is if he really liked her. And like, this was him up and he was like, listen, I just can't marry you in two weeks with this going in my head. But I do really like you and, like, I don't really care about the sex. It's just like this really. I don't know, threw me off because it wasn't what I. Yes, he didn't do that. He did not handle it well at all. I think I'm making this point just because it's like, clearly we're. We're looking at these genders and I think if it was flipped around, it would be. And like, you remember, you probably you don't, but I don't know. Did you watch Hannah Brown season?

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

You remember Jed?

[Natalie]

Yeah, the witcher at the end of.

[Ethan]

The season and he had like the girlfriend and the girl waiting by the decks and I don't know if they were hooking up or not, but, like, his version is. It wasn't that Serious. And her version was. It was. It was exactly, exactly the same. Flipped around and Bachelor Nation crucified him. Lost their shit. How dare him. How dare he have some blah, blah, blah this thing? And he was just like. He had this girl. He was hooked. I don't know what was going on. Now she's married to Hannah Brown's brother, mother. So I forget about that. The best part. But, like, there was some sort of history going on there. And, like, he went on a show, forgot she existed. You know, when you're in the outside world, she's like, I guess in six weeks. And then, like, he found himself engaged in. In a relationship, kind of unexpected, didn't handle it that well. And then, like, was crucified for it. And now, like, now it's the exact same situation, but reverse, different show. And like, all I'm saying, it's like, you. You have either a problem with it or you. You don't.

[Natalie]

I don't.

[Ethan]

So you didn't have a problem with Jed?

[Natalie]

No, I had a problem with Windmill Guy, Peter, Whichever one. That was, like, super precious about the idea of her, like, sleeping with somebody else. And she was like, oh, that. That was part the blonde guy.

[Ethan]

Yeah, that was the only.

[Natalie]

Yeah, but that was the only one.

[Ethan]

But at the time, you thought. You thought Jed was being treated unfairly.

[Natalie]

Oh, I can't put myself back there. I did not care about Jed. All I cared about was, like, when she was literally like, how dare you? Like, Jesus loves me no matter if I slept with somebody or whatever.

[Ethan]

Much bigger storyline.

[Natalie]

But that's, like, kind of the. That's kind of the same thing. He was pretty much like, my wife isn't gonna be a promiscuous type person. And she was like, completely different situation.

[Ethan]

That was like. That was like, you have to wait before marriage. This isn't not like, thank you, Luke.

[Natalie]

Kal.

[Ethan]

This is not, like, debating the semantics of, like, a hookup partner and then going on a love competition show. And that's all. That's what this conversation is about. And that's what the whole Jed and Hannah situation was, the idea. It's just like, I don't know. He probably didn't expect to fall in love with Hannah, maybe didn't expect to get cast on the show and was foolish and, like, sloppy with the fact that he was hanging out with this girl and trying to have his cake and eat it too, and, like, enjoying who this girl's company. And then went on a show and didn't know what the show, like, when I went on the show the first time when I was at work, and everyone's like, are you gonna fall in love? And I rolled my eyes, like, of course not. I'm. I'm just doing a show. And then, like, obviously, I got caught up in the whole moment. Like, it's a bizarre, crazy fucking world. And I don't expect. I didn't think Lauren expected to fall in love. And I don't know what Dave expected either. And I don't fault Lauren. I'm just saying, like, listen, she could have been a little more careful, and she could have been a little bit more prepared to, like, go on a show that she watched as a fan and saw all the other storylines and things like that, and she didn't. And whatever. That's fine. No big deal. But, like, again, it has consequences. And, like, the fact that we know what Dave thinks and. No, you know, it's just because he handled it poorly. I just think. Yeah.

[Sierra]

All I could think about is him in that trench coat when he was sitting outside after collar, and his collar was straight up and he would look like a. Not to roast him. He just. I was like. The posture, the collar, I was like, nobody fixed that.

[Justin]

Nobody fixed that.

[Gabby]

I think my biggest issue with Dave was that he was kind of trying to make Lauren break up with him.

[Ethan]

Oh, he definitely was. Dave was very much like the.

[Gabby]

And that's where I was like, nuh. If you want to break up with her, break up with her.

[Justin]

What did you think about Madison coming in with her pink hair and talking shit about Alex?

[Ethan]

She is the most toxic person in.

[Justin]

That was a crazy scene. She comes in guns a blazing.

[Sierra]

That's pink hair.

[Justin]

Talk about.

[Ethan]

Forget about the pink hair. Whatever. People dye their hair.

[Gabby]

The hair looked good.

[Ethan]

Yeah, let's. Let's not. Let's not shame people who want to get a little fun with their hair.

[Sierra]

I had pink hair, too.

[Gabby]

I had that exact.

[Justin]

She comes in immediately throwing shots. Immediately is like, yeah, well, Meg was texting Alex before she even knew, like, we could have been engaged. And she had no idea. And she was already up in his DM friends.

[Ethan]

She's dangerous. She's out there, like, not. And throwing just below, like, serious accusations of, like, he's a piece of. And blah, blah, blah. And, like, making up, like, throwing out accusations about, like, what he said about Mason. All because, like, she didn't get picked.

[Nick]

Yep. Yeah.

[Justin]

That's crazy, her being like, he said Mason. I. Like, I don't believe that for a second. Like, Alex does not look like the person who would say, that's his, like, best friend from the show. Like, now Mason.

[Sierra]

The funny thing is she said all of this and then the conversations went, no.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

I was like, okay.

[Gabby]

She said all that. And then it immediately cut to Mason and Alex being like, dude, there's a.

[Ethan]

Lot of, like, nice buys you present as the good guys who aren't. I mean, I'm. No one's more, like, triggered by those types of people. But, like, Alex is not that guy. Alex is literally just the.

[Justin]

No, it's Dave.

[Ethan]

Dave isn't. Dave is just.

[Gabby]

Dave's just kind of lame.

[Ethan]

Dave is a guy who thinks he's funny. He's not funny.

[Justin]

Well, yeah, but also. Yeah, I don't think. I don't think Alex is that guy. And Madison is trying. Trying so hard. Like, I feel like the reunion is going to be so messy because she's going to come in and be insane.

[Natalie]

I was like, you know, I'm surprised that she didn't go as mental on the Meg and Mason showing up together, too, because I'm like, I feel like that should have been like, you did everything to sabotage that relationship, and they still ended up together, and I end up with no one.

[Justin]

That's why she was trying to talk shit about Meg, like, trying to reach out to Alex, because it's like, that's her trying again to, like, ruin that relationship with Mason.

[Ethan]

Mary, I know your dad's a pastor. Oh, my God. Does he ever video it in.

[Natalie]

What does that mean?

[Gabby]

Like, phone?

[Ethan]

Well, I.

[Justin]

No, like, zoom.

[Ethan]

I'm not. Listen, your. Your. Your. Your religion is your religion. I grew up Catholic, so. And listen, our. My religion has its flaws. We are aware of my religion's flaws. But, like, you know, Justin grew up Catholic.

[Gabby]

Oh, are you talking about Ben? Yeah, the video audio.

[Ethan]

Okay, so there's a.

[Natalie]

There is a.

[Gabby]

During COVID there was a live stream version of church that, like, people. Dad would never show up on a zoom screen instead of going to church.

[Ethan]

Natalie and I went home to Savannah a couple years ago with Natalie, and it was like, I don't know, some baptism. I don't know, something. She took me to a service. It was a Christian, lovely people there. Very commercialized. Yes. There was a band on stage very much like this. Then there was a big screen and then they pressed play and there was a sermon. And I'm sorry, like, listen, and maybe this is the Catholic in me, but, like, if my pastor's showing up in a hoodie and True Religion jeans and he's on A video screen.

[Gabby]

What can this man tell me about God that I don't already know?

[Ethan]

Yes. I'm not at church.

[Gabby]

Yes.

[Ethan]

Like, no. My dad just go to a Starbucks and be like, what do you think about Jesus?

[Gabby]

I completely agree. My dad. So like that. My dad's a Lutheran pastor. The type of Lutheran that he is is a very, like, Lutheranism is probably the closest to Catholicism, just without the. It's just like, way more like chill. But it's still very, like, the liturgy is classic. It's like you're lighting, like, the candles. People will dress like, he's wearing the robe. He is not. Or he has a suit like, he is wearing that he went to. He went to seminary for four years.

[Justin]

He's not wearing Jordans.

[Ethan]

At least give me a golf polo.

[Justin]

Yeah, like, khakis and a golf polo.

[Gabby]

Like, and that's. That's his. If he. He will do that occasionally on, like, a very casual thing, but he's usually wearing a robo.

[Justin]

I. I really did think that, like, the zoom in was just a Southern thing. I've seen that, like, honestly, all over the church churches in the south. And it is like a. It'll be like a big pastor from Texas and he's like, pre to this. It's giving megachurch, you know?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

Even be there.

[Gabby]

Yeah. If I was Sarah.

[Justin]

That's hard. Yeah, it's hard. The own pastor couldn't even show up.

[Ethan]

He's bringing his girlfriend to, like, his. His big thing, you know, Like, I'm. I'm a. I'm a father of Christ and brings her to her, and it's like a.

[Sierra]

The big reveal was like, the big reveal.

[Ethan]

A guy in a hoodie on a TV screen.

[Gabby]

When I saw that, it truly sent a chill up my spine.

[Sierra]

I will say I respect her, though. She's like, you know what? I'll be there, like. Like for the holidays, for the special events. But, like, you know, I don't know if this is for me.

[Ethan]

I'm not mocking your religion. I am mocking anyone who go, like, the people who are too fucking lazy to show up and look nice and talk about their Lord and savior, Jesus Christ. If you look like you just, like, got a coupon from the Gap, I don't. I don't need you talking to me about, like, I like Gap.

[Justin]

I will say it was.

[Gabby]

But for your pastor, sure.

[Justin]

I will say it was kind of fucked up for them to give the men the bachelor party. What was the bachelor party? And the women was like, everyone dressed.

[Gabby]

Up like Old people, like, yeah, they always do this.

[Natalie]

They always do. Yeah. The lamest bachelorette parties.

[Justin]

Men get to go to a game.

[Natalie]

And like we get pop up tents for our grown asses to sit in.

[Justin]

And wigs and canes. Like thanks.

[Sierra]

It's quite fun to me though.

[Natalie]

But do you remember last season when it was like the weird like tent pop ups in a circle and it's like, do you expect grown ass women to sleep in those?

[Justin]

Yeah, it was sleepover. They need to up that.

[Ethan]

I hated the prenup conversation between Devin and Virginia.

[Sierra]

He signed it though.

[Ethan]

No, he did, but it made it seem so like dark and kind of icky about it. I don't have a problem with Virginia Askren at all. I wish. Listen, like, if you want to make a relationship of any kind work, especially a marriage, it's about like nan. I don't know what each other is going to do two years from now. Like one day I could wake up and just stop giving a shit. I could stop like waking up every day and making like my wife and my kid and my family a top priority. People do that all the fucking time. And like, to make a relationship work, it's, it's, it goes way further than just saying I do and like reciting a couple a bunch of promises. The day you get married, you like every day kind of have to almost internally renew your vows to yourself and your partner and show up for them. And a lot of people stop showing up. And like, if you have something to lose, especially marrying someone you don't really know, you have like Devin. And like, I don't fault him because I get where he's coming from, but I wish it was articulated in a way that it's like, well, what is my, what am I supposed to say in my family when they ask? Like, no one plans to get divorced.

[Natalie]

Right?

[Ethan]

You know, but like no one plans for their partner to like become a different person or lose interest or like have like a weird like middle age kind of like midlife crisis crisis or whatever. Or like, you know, some past trauma from their life, like sneaks up on them that they haven't resolved. I don't fudgeing know.

[Natalie]

Yeah, but like it's like, it's like health insurance, you're not required to have it. But like, it's nice to know that if something were to happen, I'm looking at a copay versus looking at a full pay price receipt.

[Ethan]

And 50 years ago people literally didn't get divorced. You were like ostracized from your Community. If you got divorced, so you just like, muscled through life miserable, miserable and just had a secret life. Now you don't have to do that. So if you believe in divorce, and I'm assuming Devin in Virginia, I don't mean believe because everyone's like, I'm never going to get divorced. But like, it exists. But like, don't say it's not a possibility if, like, you're not like, somehow legally not allowed to do it. You know, like, clearly it's an option. It's not an option you want to consider. You want to do everything in your power to avoid that for sure, of course.

[Natalie]

But like, let's not be delusional that that's not a possibility in the realms of reality.

[Ethan]

It only is invoked if. If the unforeseeable happens. That is literally what it's all about. And the way that's framed is if, like, she's going into this planning on getting a divorce. No, she is doing this because she's like, if you fucking change, motherfucker, do some that I don't know about. What's. Last season, Ashley. Ashley came in here and rode for her guy, her husband and like, rode for him and all these other rumors out there about kids and we still didn't even know the truth. And she told everyone to shut the up and I know my man. And now all of a sudden they're getting divorced and I don't know if there's a prenup, but like, she trusted someone that clearly she realized that maybe she shouldn't have trusted him as much as she should have. We want to believe in people, but like, this whole idea that like, it is like a negative for Virginia to ask for this when like, she's a little bit more established than, than, Than Devon. I don't know.

[Natalie]

I do think that it's kind of crazy that she's even being villainized for it because I feel like all of these couples that are planning on moving forward with marriage, you should have a prenup in. In place because you only have known.

[Ethan]

This person, only one with a brain in this cast.

[Gabby]

Virginia, you get married on tv.

[Natalie]

Yeah. When the cameras go away and it's just the two of same person that I fell in love with in the pods. Are you the same person that was in this experiment knowing that you were.

[Ethan]

Filmed 24 7, Monica's sister, like, for like 30 seconds, I was like, oh, she came around. I was a little too harsh on her. And it was like, no, she. She still is so fucking bitter. She Absolutely hates this.

[Natalie]

She was biting her tongue so hard. But she tried.

[Sierra]

She liked it.

[Ethan]

She tried.

[Natalie]

No, at the end, it was just more like, yeah, sorry about that. You seem cool.

[Ethan]

But then, like, she's still. Still, like, passive digs.

[Sierra]

And having her take the photos, the engagement photos, like, and then having that conversation was iconic, though.

[Ethan]

It was better than the photo shoot that Daniel and Taylor had. That was brutal.

[Natalie]

Though.

[Gabby]

I'm actually rooting for them. They seem really good for each other.

[Ethan]

I, I.

[Justin]

No, I like them together too.

[Ethan]

Who do we think is gonna work out? Who. Who says I do?

[Justin]

I think Taylor and Daniel say, I do.

[Sierra]

I don't think they do.

[Justin]

Really? I do not think.

[Ethan]

I think if I. I think if she does, she's leaving him in five years for someone tall.

[Sierra]

She's gonna find out that he was the one that followed her. I hope this is all speculation. I have no clue.

[Gabby]

I'm rooting for. I'm actually rooting for them.

[Ethan]

I haven't heard anything in the pipeline.

[Justin]

I think Sarah and Ben will say yes.

[Sierra]

I do too.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Natalie]

I think Monica and Joey and I think Taylor and Daniel. Or no, Virginia and. And Devon. But I don't think the other two.

[Sierra]

Monica and Joey, don't end up together.

[Gabby]

I'm not sold on Virginia.

[Sierra]

In the teaser, there's, like, a clip of her being, like, right before.

[Natalie]

Like, we have to cut that spoiler alert.

[Sierra]

It's not a spoiler. It's in the teaser. You see her, like, hesitate before saying, I do.

[Gabby]

And I'm like, but that could be edited.

[Sierra]

It could, but I'm believing in Justin.

[Ethan]

You are such a sucker.

[Justin]

Yeah, such a sucker.

[Natalie]

I was like, did you not watch Hometowns at Bachelor? I was like, all the things that I was waiting for did not happen.

[Sierra]

True.

[Ethan]

So what are our final predictions? Who says yes then?

[Sierra]

Devin in Virginia. Sarah and Ben. You guys think Taylor and Daniel?

[Justin]

Monica, Monica, Joey. Honestly, like, is that all of them? Like, yeah, I think Devin and Virginia.

[Gabby]

I think they're moving to leave the altar.

[Ethan]

Sarah, definitely. Sarah there.

[Natalie]

And Ben.

[Ethan]

Ben. They definitely don't.

[Natalie]

She says, I don't think they do either.

[Sierra]

The sisters were preying on her downfall.

[Natalie]

I don't think Taylor and Daniel will. I do think Monica and Joey will, and I do think Virginia and Devin will.

[Ethan]

I have a hard time seeing Taylor and Daniel. I feel like she's gonna say no.

[Natalie]

You think so?

[Sierra]

There's a clip of a blonde woman crying, walking back to the car after being on the aisle. It must be her, right?

[Natalie]

They're Sarah well, it could be Sarah.

[Sierra]

But like in my head it's Taylor.

[Natalie]

I mean, Sarah's got a lot going against their relationship too.

[Ethan]

I don't know. Well, we will find out soon enough. Up next, Taylor Green. Time goes by so fast. The months have been flying by, but no matter how fast time seems to be flying, it's never too late to make progress. This is where Kickoff can help. If you're saving up for a big purchase like a new house or a car, or you need to build credit fast, look no further than Kickoff, the number one credit building app in the App Store where plan start at just $5 a month. No credit check, no hidden fees and no interest.

[Justin]

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[Ethan]

Well, Taylor, welcome back.

[Taylor]

Thanks for having me again.

[Nick]

Thanks for coming.

[Taylor]

Good to be back. We're so happy to have you.

[Justin]

This has been such a fun season.

[Taylor]

Good for us. It was kind of a slow start, getting a little bit more when we.

[Ethan]

First started watching your show. I hope the rest of the cast is okay with me saying, I don't mean your show, the show that you're on.

[Taylor]

It's Craig's show.

[Justin]

Craig's show.

[Taylor]

It kind of is the guy's show. I mean, even Ms. Patrick Patricia says that she's like, it really is a guy's show. The girls are replaceable. I was like, we all were kind of like, oh, thanks.

[Natalie]

This season, that was the first time where it's kind of like shifting a bit because, like the guys are not really bringing it and the women are. But like this show and Vanderpump really was like kind of centralized around like three or four guys that are consistently creating chaos.

[Ethan]

I call them low character people.

[Natalie]

There you go.

[Taylor]

I honestly, the only reason I came back this year was to fix things with the women of the group. So I really don't care what's going on with the guys.

[Ethan]

Feel like that's going.

[Taylor]

We are all in a really good place. Obviously, it's very unfortunate that Olivia is not back this season. I was really upset about that, honestly. But she had reached out to me, and so we got to talk a little bit. Obviously, I've kept in touch with her just based on the. Her being engaged, and she's doing some fun stuff with, like, a YouTube channel. And obviously, like, her. Her brother's birthday was just this. This past February. So I reached out, just. We stay in touch like that, which is.

[Ethan]

Seems like you're not, like, what you used to be.

[Taylor]

No, I don't think that. Well, I mean, she. She's in Charlotte now.

[Justin]

I think she moved.

[Taylor]

She moved.

[Ethan]

Does she still not believe you?

[Taylor]

I. I have no idea. But her reaching out to me and that text message, she just seemed to be like, let's, you know, let's. Let's let bygones be bygones. I. I am here for you as a friend. And, um, she actually was reaching out, kind of warning me about a certain newcomer. So.

[Ethan]

Who.

[Taylor]

Yeah, I think y'all know Sally. Yeah, so.

[Justin]

So Olivia had previously known Sally.

[Taylor]

She doesn't know her, but she is from the same town. So she was like, I just want you to know I've, Like, I've heard a lot of things about this person. I don't know her personally, but just beware. And I was like, I appreciate she.

[Ethan]

Has an interesting, like, reality TV track record as someone who, like, almost went on the Bachelor and almost went Ambassador.

[Justin]

In Paradise and now is on. Yeah, it wasn't interesting.

[Ethan]

Charm.

[Justin]

And do you feel like where you and Sally are today is better than when you were filming? Are you kind of like, I'm not investing in that relationship?

[Taylor]

Yeah, I definitely don't want to invest in that relationship. I think that. I mean, to be completely honest, the first time I actually officially met her was on camera at her little gathering. No, this was. They. It didn't air, but we don't get to see it. But it was like we had a little girl girls night. And a lot of. A lot of this stuff that. That we did with the women of the group, you don't get to see much of it. And that was like, what was really important for me and why I was returning. It felt like this newcomer came in and leveraged, like, my fractured relationship with these girls to, like, one up herself and then keep me in the fire and be like, oh, and by the way, she's not only a shitty friend, but, like, she's dating this horrible guy, and it was just like, one thing after another that she was just trying to. That guy, if we're talking, he's so adorable.

[Ethan]

He's in the room gusto. Handsome guy.

[Justin]

He's in the room with his really cute niece on top of his ass.

[Ethan]

Yeah, very cute niece.

[Justin]

So did you. I guess. Whenever you heard that Sally was joining the show, were you aware of her previous fling with your boyfriend Gaston?

[Taylor]

I was, yeah. I had known of her just because I had my friends say that she was talking about me at Republic. And you know, I was like, wait, who is this? And I said, oh, the girl that's hooking up with Joe and amongst a few other people on that cast. And so I was like, I don't. Like, I don't know this person. I obviously had known that there was a past fling there, but she had every intention of coming on this season to drag his name, and she did just that. So that was really fun to deal with after she had already told me, like, hey, I have no ill will towards you or Gaston. I'm glad that you're happy. And. Cause I just heard things in the rumor mill that she was coming on to do just that. And. And so I confronted her about it before we started filming and lo and behold, it was everything that.

[Ethan]

What did she say when you confronted her?

[Taylor]

Oh, she. She said, I have no ill will towards you guys. Like, I'm happy for you and Gaston. And my only one thing that I have against you is that you said something nasty about me around town. And that was the. I was like, I did. And like, I don't know you. And that was the hooker comment. And I was like, I've never called anyone a hooker. I was like, I'm pretty sure it's like. It just doesn't sound like you're such a hooker.

[Justin]

Vint of you.

[Taylor]

It's very vintage of me.

[Ethan]

It's slut.

[Taylor]

Yeah, it's a now. Yeah.

[Justin]

So was that just a rumor that she heard that you said or something?

[Taylor]

Yeah, I. I mean, she came out with another one at reunion and I don't. I mean, like, it's. It was pretty horrible. I was like, oh my gosh. She was like, you called me a hooker and that. I got inkbanged. And I was like, what? I was like, where are you hearing?

[Ethan]

I've never.

[Taylor]

I was like, I don't talk about you. Like, I just. I don't. I mean, here I'm talking about right now, but like, I don't talk about you. I've never used. Use the word hooker. Or.

[Justin]

Wait, she accuses you of saying something like that?

[Taylor]

Another. I think that she just says things to like, rile me up so that.

[Ethan]

Is a weird thing to platform a rumor about yourself.

[Taylor]

I think it's a part of her manipulation tactic. That's my. That's my depiction of it.

[Justin]

Yeah. So I. I feel like we saw that was.

[Taylor]

I was like, how many? I don't know. I should ask her.

[Justin]

It's crazy.

[Taylor]

I was like, I feel like we saw at.

[Justin]

So, like, y'all had this conversation. You heard she was going to be on the show off camera. You kind of meet up and you're like, or. Or was this on camera?

[Taylor]

No, this was off camera. It was before we started filming.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And she was like, I wish nothing but the best for you two. And then on camera, she switches up and starts, like, talking a lot of. About Gaston. Talking some about you saying Nick's, like, worst. The thing he hates the most. And he. People say is nobody here likes you or.

[Taylor]

Or what.

[Ethan]

Some version of like, you know. You know when people, like, tell other, you know, people about you. You know, when Sally said to you about, like, you're a bad friend.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

I was told not to trust you. It's like, who are they? You know, when people bring up they.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

As like, some, like, group of people who. Who, you know, like, everyone says that about you. You know what I'm saying?

[Taylor]

Right.

[Ethan]

Like, huh? Like, I hate that.

[Taylor]

I do. I like to see. I'm like, who. Like, show me the proof of this. And again, that's just where it was. Like, she was leveraging my friends, fractured friendships to drag myself. My relationship. Like, it was. It was really unfortunate because I had worked so hard to get to a better place coming into this season after everything that went down last season on the show and in my personal life. And this person over here, Gaston, has been, like, a huge part in my healing process and my healing journey. And so to have someone come in and just like, try to absolutely tear that down, like, with everything inside of. Of her was really tough to navigate. And I tried to just, like, let it go, but it's hard when they're constantly.

[Justin]

You also want to protect the people that you love. And, like, I definitely turn into, like, a huge and a very, like, mama bear energy if someone tries to come for Nick, especially, like, in front of my face. So I honestly respect you so much for, like, keeping the piece as much as you did. I mean, to sit there, like, to have the whole, like, jj, JT bring up this whole, like, Sally, like, what.

[Ethan]

Was that rumor again?

[Taylor]

It was like, that was the worst. I mean. Yeah, well, I know he was like, he was going Down.

[Ethan]

I know he was over here.

[Justin]

Like, who say, jt, that little man's funny.

[Ethan]

I think you said something. I don't watch it.

[Sierra]

But he said something along the lines of, like, that I had an affair with Sally, with my past relationship. Which is just a funny way of saying thing.

[Justin]

Right.

[Ethan]

But it was an ex girlfriend.

[Sierra]

It didn't happen. And they just kind of like. And it backfired on him because then.

[Nick]

Sally turned on him, and it's like.

[Sierra]

You just stay in your lane.

[Ethan]

Like, you got enough worry about with Benita and what you got going on. Like.

[Justin]

That's true.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

Just relax.

[Justin]

That's true.

[Ethan]

Where do you stand with jt? He's smarmy.

[Taylor]

We are not. I don't. I don't respect him at all.

[Ethan]

Right.

[Taylor]

I mean, I just think that he's trying to grab at something and he's doing it in a really dirty way.

[Ethan]

Yeah. Like, really doing Benito dirty.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Justin]

I mean, honestly, doing all the women dirty, it feels like.

[Taylor]

Yeah. It's like he. And he didn't show up a lot this year, all last year.

[Justin]

Preach.

[Taylor]

Stand up. Be a man. Like, own. Own whatever you have. And he would just run away. Like, every. He would run away. And. And I'm speaking the truth. And we just. I was like, well, you're doing it. You're not speaking the truth, first of all. You're grasping at something. And that's what I feel like a lot of people. Not a lot, but some people on that Cat Caster just wanting so badly to be relevant. I think he's one of those people.

[Natalie]

What do you make of the relationship between JT and Vanita? Like, seeing how it played out on camera versus, like, in real life?

[Taylor]

I was completely, like. I had no idea that that was a thing. I just thought that they were good friends. It wasn't until afterwards or after we had wrapped filming that they had kind of, I guess, tried some things out or like, went on a couple days and here and there. And then when I heard that, I was like, I need to talk to Bea about this. Like, what's going on?

[Ethan]

Did you know he had a girlfriend?

[Taylor]

No. Nobody knew. And then he talked about it on camera, and we were like, wait, you have a girlfriend?

[Justin]

Was he acting like he had a girlfriend or was his behavior.

[Taylor]

He never really talked about her.

[Ethan]

And, like, if you were his girlfriend, how would you feel about his behavior?

[Taylor]

I would tell him to go kick rocks. Excuse me.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Like, I don't care if you're trying to do it for the show or not like that's.

[Ethan]

Cause she is this mysterious woman.

[Natalie]

Spoken out, I mean, apparently called Benita a homewrecker. A rat. Yeah.

[Taylor]

Yeah. It was right when the trailer dropped. Like, she kind of. And I don't know that. I mean, we kind of know her. My friend, like, works with her at a. At a gym, I think Lara works with her at a gym, but I don't really know the girl, so I haven't really been able to.

[Ethan]

Well, J.T. seems like he's good at playing both sides.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

So I'm sure he's good at that. Giving I'll be just fine or some versions.

[Justin]

I mean, I'm sure it. And I do see, like, the frustration on his end because it's like, you know, we weren't in that room. We know that there's editing. But, like, Craig swears by a lot of things that JT Says, and then we don't have any of that proof. And Shep is also, like, corroborating. Like, I didn't hear any of that. So where do you land on the whole, like, Patricia's a. And I. Madison, like, wanted. Or Brett thought Madison and I were having an affair.

[Taylor]

I think that. Yeah. I think that Craig can embellish. I mean, he can embellish the truth.

[Ethan]

What does that mean?

[Taylor]

I think that, like, he hears one thing, and he just wants to go with it. So he's like, let's. Let's, like, up the ante a little bit. Let's make it a little bit more.

[Ethan]

Interesting and say it was, like, just lying. I mean, where's. Where what. What's the difference between embellishing the truth and, like, making up a story like sex that, like, the gang bang accusation sounds like that's.

[Taylor]

Where did that start. Escalated to this.

[Ethan]

Is he doing stuff like that, or. I mean, is he embellishing the breakup?

[Taylor]

I honestly don't. We talked about that at reunion to exhaustion. I think everyone on the couch was pretty much asleep.

[Ethan]

What's your. What's your take again?

[Taylor]

Just kind of stay out of it. My only take on that is that when Paige was asking him to say something about the cheating rumors. He doesn't owe her that. I don't think he owes her that. She broke up with him, and he doesn't owe her. He didn't start the rumor.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

So he's like, that's not on me. I didn't go around starting this rumor that you cheated on me, that why do I have to stand up when you broke my heart? I had a ring for you. And now I'm having to go, she didn't cheat on me. He was like, I. No, you broke my heart, and I don't owe that to you. So, like, a breakup is a breakup. You kind of part ways, and you don't owe each other. Each other anything anymore.

[Natalie]

Kind of going off of that last season, obviously, there was the season premiere. You had said to Craig, like, well, what about your girl cheating on you? Were there rumors just circulating around Charleston about that? Or, like, where did that come from, that rumor?

[Taylor]

And it was very early on in their relationship. Allegedly. This is all alleged. I. I do still regret saying that. It was just a rumor that was going around. Bravo.

[Natalie]

Oh, yeah.

[Taylor]

And it was just like. And, you know, people were chatting about it, and so I repeated the rumor in that moment, and I'm the type of person where if I. I don't like to repeat rumors unless I have facts and proof.

[Natalie]

Right.

[Taylor]

So I was like, I. I was hurt in that moment. I apologize for saying it. I didn't. I take it back. But again, still just a rumor.

[Ethan]

Okay.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Have you seen Sienna going live or the. The. The. All the tiktoks she's posting, like, trying to, like, expose the truth about her time on the show and her relationship with Chef?

[Taylor]

I think I saw one. It was, like, part one. The trilogy of her lives or whatever they are. Yeah, I think I saw part one again. I didn't really. I wasn't paying attention to that whole situation, and maybe I should have a little bit more, but I was only on that trip to be with the girls. Like, I. I was really just. We had this ball rolling, and I was like, let's keep it going. Like, I feel really good with the win, and I just want to keep it. Keep it there. I don't care about what's going on or, like, Santa and Shep and whatever. So. But looking back at it all, I'm like, I look kind of stupid because from my experience with him, I'm going, this is your fault. Like, you're the one probably ruining this relationship, and in reality is, like, the other way around. Oh, I look kind of stupid. It makes me look like I'm jealous or something. I was like, no. I'm like, I could be the furthest thing from jealous in this moment. Truly understandable.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Justin]

It's just you not knowing the, like, details of it and just assuming of, like, who, you know, Shep to be.

[Ethan]

What did you make of. Sorry for talking about her ex in.

[Taylor]

Front of your boyfriend?

[Ethan]

What. But what did you make of kind of Shep's behavior in the sense that, like, it. It seemed a little out of pocket for him to kind of melt the way he did and act that way, or it. It. It was this, do you think, a product of just, like, a guy for the first time, like, not getting what he wanted in. In the way that he want and that he was more uncomfortable with that, versus, like, this is not the Shep that we seem to have gotten to know. This kind of, like, kind of nothing serious, you know, whatever. Everything's a joke, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All of a sudden, he's talking about freckles and, like, their love, and it's just, like, to the point where it's just like, whoa, you're getting a little creepy, Chef.

[Taylor]

I mean, yeah, it was. It was. It's weird watching that, being like, this is not what I'm used to. He doesn't take life seriously. And so that's where I'm going. You're not taking life seriously, and this girl probably is trying to take life seriously, and you put her in this little bubble, and that's not like you're confining her to this space and, like, that. There's much more to this person. But, yeah, to actually see him, like, breaking down, I think it is like, Shep got Shep. So.

[Ethan]

Do you think this experience, I mean, do you think it was real, or do you think any part of it was him just, like, leaning in for the sake of the show?

[Taylor]

I'll give Shep that. What you see is what you. It.

[Ethan]

Okay.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

And do you think this experience will teach him anything?

[Taylor]

It's a good question. Maybe. I mean, you can, because he definitely. You might be able to teach old dog new tricks. I don't know.

[Ethan]

I mean, listen, we. We all need vulnerable moments. We all need to feel embarrassed or be embarrassed, humbled at times. Sheps is on television. I'm not trying to, like, on him, but, like, that was a bad beat for him. Like, he really was just like, oh.

[Taylor]

God, you know, like, he took it.

[Ethan]

Yeah. But I'm just wondering if he will.

[Taylor]

Feel learned, you know, I think at the end of the day, he'll be just fine. He kind of. I feel like guys in general do this. They, like, turn their emotions off, and they just kind of keep going with life. And so I think that's probably just what we'll do.

[Justin]

Would you support him and Molly, or are you kind of like, I don't want Molly to get involved with that.

[Taylor]

No, I. I Love Molly. And as you guys got to meet her a little bit, she's like, somebody naturally gravitated towards just because she is very cool, calm, collected.

[Justin]

Is.

[Taylor]

She's not, like, in the drama.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

She's also someone, like, what you see is what you get. I. I mean, I don't know. I would never encourage someone to be with the person that I was with, but I don't know where Shep is today. I mean, I hope that he's, like, growing into his own and becoming, I guess, figuring out life a little bit more.

[Ethan]

It's not your place to.

[Taylor]

Yeah. I'm kind of like, oh, I'm not going to sit there and be like.

[Justin]

You'Re not gonna be like, you can't date my ex.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

You're not gonna.

[Taylor]

I'm not gonna code it. I'm very happy in my relationship.

[Ethan]

So I'm like, what's the future of you being on the show look like? Because, you know, you mentioned you just kind of came back for the women. It feels like whatever you accomplished, maybe that job is done. Obviously, with Shep being your ex, like, clearly there is a challenge, and rightfully so, of, like, navigating being part of this group and then, like, obviously, you know, like the X storyline, but I'm guessing it's more of a thing than you wish it would be. Like, how do you see your future.

[Justin]

With the show and also having someone like Sally who wants to be you, attack your current relationship? Like, is it worth going through that again?

[Taylor]

I. I mean, obviously, like, knowing more of what I know now, I just. It's. It's very frustrating. I don't like to put myself in those situations. But, yeah, it's a great question because I just do want to have that time and moment with a Olivia, which I have. It's obviously not on camera, but that's what the viewer wants. And I don't think that I'll be getting that moment. And that's the only reason that I came back, was to, like, end on a good note and be able to move past everything.

[Ethan]

So you think it might be done?

[Taylor]

I don't know.

[Justin]

Would you jump ship to Southern hospitality?

[Taylor]

That would make more sense, because I do actually hang out with those people. Those are. Are people I've known for a very long time. Even before they started Southern hospitality, you know, I knew TJ and Brad and Emmy and Will and all of them, so it would make more sen since. But.

[Ethan]

So talk to me about tj. Yeah, he seems real toxic to me.

[Justin]

He likes to stir A pot Gaston.

[Taylor]

Was his roommate for a year and a half.

[Ethan]

A year and a half.

[Taylor]

A year and a half.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

I didn't say he has no redeeming qualities.

[Taylor]

Yeah, no, I can see how that, like, you know, people are like, oh, he's a potster. And I think that he is the type of person who does bring facts to the table. And he will. Like, if he's going to say something, he's going to have a reason as to why he said it or back in it up. And I mean, I'll always try to.

[Ethan]

I was a little uncomfy with the whole Joe conversation.

[Natalie]

It was.

[Taylor]

That was a very uncomfortable. I was like, conversation.

[Ethan]

Was he blacked out or is he not blacked out? And if he's blacked out, I'm like, what are we talking about here?

[Taylor]

It was really. That was really tough for me as a friend to watch that. Cuz seeing TJ get very emotional. Like, he's just not an emotional person. And I think that it was just maybe downplayed. Like that whole situation was downplayed a little bit. So he's getting emotional about it. And it was. It's a very. Like, how do you navigate a conversation like that? It's. It can be very uncomfortable. So. But I think that there will be more answers to that at their reunion.

[Ethan]

Okay.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

But you stand by them.

[Taylor]

I'll stand by him always.

[Justin]

Okay.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And you're. Are you super close with Emmy and Will as well? Cause there your name got brought up last episode with TJ and Emmy having a little confrontation.

[Taylor]

Yeah, yeah, I, I saw that. I was like, wait, did I say that? Well, I did, but yeah, no, I, I've known Emmy and Will, I know Emmy more better just because she. When we started to get to know each other, we were actually in London with Will and Emmy two years ago, and it was right before season one was about to air. And I said, just let you know, Yalls relationship is going to be under fire. Y'all are going to get painted out to be this cute little couple. The fun couple that works together is that. But in due time, it will happen. Happen. Yeah. And they're like. I was like, y'all just have to be prepared, you know, don't do anything stupid. But of course, like the. Their whole situation, I'm. I think that Emmy could have handled it better, but I think that she just was in defense mode. Like she. What she had been through going, you know, being in long distance relationship. He's in law school, he's under A lot of stress. So she's just trying to protect him in that relationship because they, like, they got through the first year, and it felt like everyone was trying to come in and attack her. In reality, they're just going, we're just checking in on you. So she saw the attack, not the.

[Natalie]

Concern with the rumors, like, flying around about Will for multiple seasons at this point. Like, what do you make of it? As somebody who also has been in a relationship and probably have heard rumors and what not outside of it, do you believe, like, where there's smoke, there's fire. Do you think that there's a group of lawyers that are bullying Will?

[Taylor]

I don't know about that. About a group of lawyers bullying, but I don't. I mean, I don't know. Well, guess I went to law school. Or were there a bunch of bullies in law school? I don't know.

[Ethan]

Bullies might be a strong word, but I just feel like people in law school would, like, I see it's competitive. Or also, like, you know, being on a reality TV show, depending on who you ask, like, is a. Is a door for people to criticize you, depending on your community. Yeah, I think that's. Reality TV stars have.

[Justin]

We have risen up.

[Ethan]

We have. We have leveled up in terms of our credibility, But I still think we're, you know, we're punching bags for. For. For people sometimes to like, oh, my God.

[Taylor]

Yeah, I'm sure they don't take you very seriously. Maybe.

[Natalie]

Well, back to my question. Do you think that there's some, like, do you think that Emmy's doing the right thing by saying no to these rumors? Or do you think Emmy should be addressing the rumors and not getting defensive?

[Taylor]

I think there could have been a conversation instead of just because. And there might have been. It just wasn't seen. But to just come in and say, no, it didn't happen. It to the viewer, to people listening, they're going, you're just saying no. Did you have a conversation?

[Natalie]

Right.

[Taylor]

And so, yeah, I think that there. I'm sure there was, but it needs, like, just have a conversation. Where are these rumors coming from and why? And then, okay, let's put it aside.

[Justin]

I mean, I do think it is hard because it's like, Austin's ex girlfriend, who could be his current girlfriend's, like, brother's sister's friend, heard, and it's like, okay, are Emmy and Will at the reunion?

[Natalie]

Will doesn't show up.

[Taylor]

Yeah, Will's not. He's in. He's, like, in the back room. But Emmy's the only one. But he was there. Yeah, he was there.

[Ethan]

Why didn't he.

[Natalie]

They teased it as Andy Cohen saying, well, Will's not here. So he's not on the show anymore.

[Taylor]

No, he. I mean, he was at the studio, but he was not on stage.

[Natalie]

Interesting.

[Taylor]

I don't know why the reasoning for that would be. I don't. I really. I didn't even ask.

[Ethan]

Maybe the bully lawyers got him holding.

[Natalie]

Him in the back in the locker.

[Taylor]

Giving him a swirly. This year of Southern hospitality has been. Has been good.

[Nick]

Good.

[Taylor]

It's been entertaining.

[Justin]

I think you jump ship. I think you joined.

[Taylor]

I don't know if I want to join the. The dark side.

[Ethan]

What else you been doing in your life? You watching anything fun?

[Taylor]

I. We just started watching SEAL Team. SEAL Team. SEAL Team. AJ Buckley actually lives in Charleston. He and his wife and their three kids. So we've met. You know, met them. We go. We watched his kid do a little band thing at Windjammer. And so that's been really fun. But then obviously, White Lotus.

[Nick]

Yep.

[Taylor]

Then loving that Lotus.

[Ethan]

I've only. We've only watched two episodes.

[Natalie]

Third episode came out last night.

[Ethan]

Came out last night.

[Natalie]

Get on it.

[Justin]

You also have your brand. I know.

[Taylor]

You've got my sweatshirt.

[Ethan]

I really like the sweatshirt. In terms of. In terms of swag gifts that we get, it's. It's. It's a nice little oversized.

[Justin]

I love that.

[Taylor]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Ethan]

Thick. It's a nice like medium sweat.

[Taylor]

I know. I've got. This is our cement Simone set. So we've been. I've been very busy. Yeah. The Simone. This is named after Simone Bile.

[Natalie]

That's my middle name.

[Taylor]

Oh, it is. Actually we named after him. But yeah. So we've been very busy with that. We've got some pop ups coming up in Baltimore. My business partner's in Baltimore and I'm in Charleston, obviously. So it's kind of nice being in two different places on the east coast that are in between, like the Florida Keys, Miami area, and then New York and.

[Ethan]

And yeah.

[Taylor]

Yeah. So it's been really fun. It's kept me busy and. I know. We'll see where it goes.

[Natalie]

Well, now you have to come back next season so we can at least promote the brand.

[Taylor]

I know, right? Yeah, I know. TJ's got his sir Wieners. It's been doing really well.

[Natalie]

Really.

[Taylor]

Yeah, I know. Well, I'm gonna have to tell him to send you guys some swag because they're Sir Wieners.

[Natalie]

His hot dog cart.

[Taylor]

His hot dog cart. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ethan]

What kind of hot dogs? All beef.

[Taylor]

Yes. I think there's might be a bratwurst term that. The bratwurst one, I think it's called. The worst one is the bratwurst.

[Ethan]

But does he have a kielbasa?

[Taylor]

No. He could get a little fancy with the meats. But there's a one with peanut butter on it. So all the hot dogs, like, have. They're named after some of the. The charact. The cast members. And the one with peanut butter on it is like, Emmy. Emmy.

[Ethan]

Is he working the stand? Is he behind there slinging the dogs?

[Natalie]

Yep.

[Taylor]

Junk.

[Justin]

Emmy licked peanut butter off of someone's jaw.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

So that's where that one came from.

[Ethan]

Who did.

[Taylor]

I think it's in season one they talk about it.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Justin]

We didn't know, so.

[Taylor]

But that was the best one. That's the best hot dog with. I mean, something like that.

[Natalie]

Wiener time.

[Ethan]

Wouldn't you prefer there to be peanut butter?

[Taylor]

And that one's the best one with.

[Ethan]

You'd rather have no peanut butter with.

[Taylor]

Peanut butter on it? It's so good with a pretzel roll. Yeah.

[Natalie]

Interesting.

[Taylor]

Yeah. So next time you're in Charleston, come to Lamar's. We'll go. We'll get Leva to hook us up, and we'll get TJ to hook us up with a wiener towel next time.

[Justin]

I definitely don't need, like, extra things in my mouth when I'm trying to, like, do ej. Like, I don't need to, like, I'm not thinking.

[Ethan]

You're, like, pausing, like, can I get some peanut butter? But, like, I'm just saying, if peanut butter was there.

[Justin]

No, that's just extra things. I have to, like. Peanut butter is so sticky. You know how long that's in your mouth for? Like, you're like. Yeah, it's, like, constantly. That's giving me too much work right now.

[Ethan]

Why did. Why was there peanut butter? Is this a dare? Was it a dare?

[Taylor]

I don't. I. I have no. I think I asked her about it and forgot what she said. I think she was like, we were just being stupid. It was, like, in college or something silly.

[Justin]

Do we see, like, marriage with Gaston or Naila?

[Taylor]

Do you want to answer that?

[Ethan]

Yeah. How long has it been?

[Taylor]

A year and a half.

[Nick]

Oh, yeah.

[Natalie]

Congrats.

[Ethan]

That must get so annoying, though, even, like, bringing up Shep just because in TV time, like, it's just. It feels like you guys, like, just broke. Broke up. You've been dating someone else for a year. And a half, like.

[Taylor]

And we were broken up for over a year before I even started dating.

[Ethan]

But you haven't been dating Shep for two and a half years.

[Taylor]

Yeah. People are like, she moved on so far. I was like. It was over a year that I was single.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

And then I, you know, met him and.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Well, I guess we've. We've already known each other, but I was gonna say reconnected.

[Natalie]

I always. Because I give reality TV stars, especially in the Bravo sphere, like, so much credit because it's like, you do go through such a dream, dramatic summer, maybe three months or whatever, and then you have a year to forget about it, recover, and then all of a sudden, it's like, airing. Now let's go through your trauma. Yeah, exactly.

[Taylor]

And people think it happened last week. Like, this was a year ago. This all happened a year ago.

[Natalie]

But, like, how does it feel to prepare for a reunion like that? Because it's like, you know, you're going to be asked questions in a way that's like, as if this happened yesterday, but you're, like, going off of emotions that you're trying to replay by rewatching.

[Nick]

Right.

[Natalie]

Like, how. How does the reunion go down, in a sense? Because I feel like it's so passionate, too.

[Taylor]

Oh, y. Yeah. And I. I mean, it's hard when you're, I guess, in it. Like, if you're. If you're still trying to recover from it or whatever, it can be very emotional. But I think this year I was so just over it. And, like, I'm in such a better and more healthier place that I just was like, bring it on. I was like, go ahead. This is all dumb. It's all done and said with.

[Natalie]

So have you ever skipped episodes or.

[Taylor]

Like, I fast forward.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Yeah. I'm like, this is boring. It's like the Austin and Craig of it all.

[Ethan]

Oh, my gosh.

[Taylor]

All are fighting over a stup podcast.

[Ethan]

Are they really fighting?

[Taylor]

I think so. I don't think they're doing the podcast anymore. I don't.

[Ethan]

Yeah, but that could happen.

[Taylor]

We tried listening to it one time on the way home from one of the trips, like, a few years ago, and we're in the car. It was like, me and Vanita and I think maybe someone else. And I was like, why are we listening to their stupid voices? Like, we just have to listen to them all weekend. Yap, yap, yap, yap, yap.

[Natalie]

And now we're pillows and beer. Because Craig mixed pillows.

[Ethan]

No, I understand the name. Yeah. What was it? It about, though?

[Taylor]

Oh, I don't even remember.

[Justin]

Just like, they're.

[Taylor]

I mean, like, they. I'll give it. There's some things that are funny and goofy, but I don't know. They're like.

[Natalie]

Their Last episode was January 6th with Spencer Pratt.

[Justin]

Oh, of this year.

[Natalie]

Of this year. January 6th.

[Ethan]

Okay.

[Taylor]

Well, maybe they're still doing it.

[Natalie]

It's March 3rd.

[Taylor]

All right.

[Ethan]

Oh.

[Justin]

So they took a break.

[Ethan]

They brought it back after their fake cancellation.

[Justin]

There is some speculation about Sally and Craig. Obviously, they were, like, seen at Nobu or something in New York. Like, and then I took it as, like, oh, it's two co workers in the same place. And then she went on Watch what Happens Live and was asked about it and played really coy and was kind of like, we had a chaperone.

[Ethan]

Like, I feel like that's so Sally.

[Justin]

It definitely is.

[Taylor]

Definitely is very Sally coded. To my knowledge. I'm pretty sure she's, like, dating someone, so. Oh, yeah.

[Justin]

Okay.

[Ethan]

And it's giving jt.

[Taylor]

Yeah, it is.

[Ethan]

Wow.

[Taylor]

Yeah. I mean, I've said that. I said. You just. Just wait. I was like, you think JT is bad?

[Natalie]

Do we find out at the reunion whether or not JT has left the show officially since he announced it, like, five months ago?

[Taylor]

You will. I don't know.

[Ethan]

Can they just fire him?

[Taylor]

You will see an appearance. But I'm. I was like, he better show up. Because. Because you think I wanted to show up last year, right? Like, after everything that was going on? I. Yeah. I wanted to crawl into a hole. I was like, you have. You just answered to the questions, like, just say you're sorry and. And let's move forward from this. But he does. He shows up, and I can't remember if he gave an explanation to that or not. I think he did, but I thought that was for quit mid season while it's, like, before it airs or whatever.

[Justin]

Yeah, that's why I was like, this must be for the next.

[Taylor]

I was like, I don't. I haven't looked at my. In my. My contract, but I'm pretty sure you can't just, like, quit.

[Natalie]

Quit and then show up to the reunion.

[Taylor]

Yeah, and then show up to the reunion. So I'm not sure he comes out. I'm like, why.

[Ethan]

Why are you even here? How did he end up on the show? Who was he friends with?

[Natalie]

Craig and Austin.

[Taylor]

I think he just kind of knew. Like, he, like, knows them in the crowd, but that was why he was so adamant about, like, being my friend, was because he Was.

[Ethan]

And he strikes me as the guy who you meet and he's like, I'll pick you up at the airport. And he kind of weasels himself into the friend group it. Because he. He's kind of like, I'll do that. He does a bunch of favors and you're like, yeah, he seems harmless enough. And then all of a sudden, you know, this guy who really doesn't belong starts running his mouth, thinking that's.

[Taylor]

I mean, that is essentially what happened. Like, I thought. And of course, I'm like, yeah, new friends. Like, oh, my gosh, he's so funny. He's like, so easy to be around. And a few months in, he was like, oh, yeah, I'm interviewing for the show. I was like, oh, awesome. Like, that's so exciting. Looking back, I. And going, oh, he was just trying to befriend so that he could have, like, a storyline. And I mean, that's kind of.

[Ethan]

Yeah, I think it reads, always be wary of the new friend you meet who starts offering you a bunch of favors.

[Justin]

What was your reaction to seeing Shep, of all people, have a comment on Gaston's appearance?

[Ethan]

You're kind of hot.

[Justin]

Yeah, he is. I mean, especially if we're putting the.

[Ethan]

Two side by side.

[Taylor]

It's jarring.

[Justin]

But he wanted to on Gaston.

[Taylor]

Oh, 100%. No, I. I thought it was very middle school. I was like, are. Are we in high school? Like, when Sally and Madison and Paige were sitting there just, like, gossiping and, like, talking, I wanted to, like, jump through the screen. And by the way, that day that they went to go film at Craig's, because I had canceled my birthday party because I was grieving my dead brother on the. This huge, like, monumental birthday 30. I'm like, I want to be with my family and my. My boyfriend and my friends and people who. The only people on that cast that reach out to me on my birthday were Rod, Leva, Vanita, and Molly, of course. But, yeah, nobody was like, hey, you know, happy birthday. Hope you're doing well. I know this is a big. And everyone there knew why I canceled my party had nothing to do with him telling me to cancel it. I told Leva that I just can't do. I can't be. I. I can't do cameras. Not. I just. I need to be with. With people that know and love me and genuinely care about me. And then to see what was going on behind the scenes of somebody trash talking my relationship and my person on the day of my birthday that I canceled because I'm Grieving my dead brother. I was just like, that was low.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

And like, Madison, you're going to talk about, like, you. You talked about JT's looks, like you're talking about, like, what are you, the mean girl? Like, that's just. I just. I was like, I no respect. And Leva did. So she was like, that whole day, I was going around being like, she canceled a party because she's grieving. Like, she doesn't want to be around cameras.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

And everyone knew that, and they still decided to talk about me and my relationship, which was awesome.

[Natalie]

Sounds like some people needed a storyline.

[Taylor]

Yep.

[Ethan]

Are you watching Traders at all?

[Taylor]

No. And I want to see it because I heard that Tom Sandoval is just crazy, cringey as ever.

[Justin]

He's great television.

[Taylor]

He's singing, and then Gabby, hilarious. So I. I'm like, I need. Tom's pretty hilarious, too.

[Justin]

Tom is great television.

[Taylor]

He is.

[Justin]

But, I mean, Gabby is also made for television, and she's.

[Ethan]

She ate last episode, you know?

[Justin]

Yeah, she is.

[Taylor]

Yeah. She's funny.

[Justin]

Yeah. I think she definitely. She's just like.

[Taylor]

And. And funny. I. Speaking of Tom being entertaining, it was that week that I was here last that you guys had him on your podcast before me, I think. And you're like, get ready for that one.

[Nick]

And that was wild.

[Taylor]

I was so excited to listen to that episode.

[Ethan]

We've been talking about getting him back.

[Taylor]

On, but we'll see if I'm going. Nick gives you a platform to be able to give your side of the story. And Natalie and you guys were really like, we're helping you. We're trying here, Tom. We're trying to help you out here. And he just was like, you know? And you're like, we're really trying.

[Justin]

We do try.

[Ethan]

We hope to have them back on anything else we want to unplug or promote Reset Athletics.

[Taylor]

You'll find us. I know we actually have a more like a men's hoodie.

[Ethan]

This is the woman's.

[Taylor]

Well, no, we had that color, like, for the men. And then he was wearing it one time, and I was like, I don't know. They're like, I like it. But I was like, it's just. We need a more like a men's needs to be because it's more long fitted so well.

[Ethan]

I like this one.

[Taylor]

Okay. I'm glad you like it, but, yeah, we'll get y'all some more gear and stuff.

[Ethan]

But, Taylor, it's great to see you. Thanks for coming back. Thank you so much for Having me always fun chatting with you, wishing you the best of luck and maybe Southern hospitality.

[Taylor]

We'll see what's in the cards.

[Justin]

I feel like that's a safer space for you, you know, like, what role.

[Ethan]

Do you play on that show? Because I don't feel like you're going to be working. I hope you're like, I feel like I don't.

[Taylor]

Leva actually just opened up a new daiquiri spot, Zachary's Daiquiri's. So that's going to be, like, the spot for the summer. I can't wait. She has a little store in the the back of it that she wants to get some athletic sets in there with her prints on them. So we're gonna see if that, like, works or whatever.

[Justin]

Yeah, you don't have to be working. You can just be, like, there.

[Natalie]

Grace, Lily, she's out working, but she's on that show. She just shows up to sing in Vegas.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

Now that girl is made for tv. I tell her, I was like, I'm obsessed with you. She's hilarious.

[Natalie]

The way I just say it in my head, it's wavy, baby. I know what that means.

[Taylor]

I know, but I'll say it. I mean, I'll. I catch myself saying it, too. I'm like, who am I? Who am I?

[Ethan]

Oh, is that always good to chat with you, Taylor?

[Taylor]

Yes. You guys, too.

[Nick]

Thank you.

[Justin]

Right?

[Taylor]

Thank you.

[Justin]

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[Ethan]

You are no dummy, but you're kind of acting like one. You used to crush it in school, outsmarting opponents on the field, and now, well, you're still smart, but not exactly challenging yourself. You could be advancing nuclear engineering in the world's most powerful navy. You were born for it. So make the smart choice. You can be smart smart or you could be nuke smart. Become a nuclear [e-mail] nukesmart America's Navy forged by the sea. Taylor's all sweet. I don't, I don't know why does she not. She always seems as a hard time fitting with her cast of Southern charm.

[Natalie]

I don't.

[Ethan]

She really hates Sally.

[Justin]

Yeah, I mean I would too after everything it's Sally's done, you know.

[Ethan]

All right, it's hometowns. It's Bachelor. You know what I realized?

[Natalie]

What did you realize?

[Ethan]

Because last week I thought I said they were like an episode. They cut one episode out. Was this the sixth episode of the season? Season?

[Natalie]

I believe so.

[Ethan]

My. Yeah.

[Justin]

Episode six.

[Ethan]

When I was on the show back in the day long it like hometowns was week nine. They're cutting. They're three episodes shorter. Which makes, I mean it's like how we, how, how are we at hometowns? How is Zoe at a hometown when she doesn't even have a day? But that's not Zoe's fault. Like it's just like that's the format of the show. Like it was like all of a sudden we started getting some drama with Carolina and then like, you know, that should have been a two on one. But like man, they really like the.

[Justin]

Chemistry between Zoe and Grant is the most, the hardest thing to watch. There's absolutely nothing there. I mean that date was brutal.

[Ethan]

I mean they didn't spend any time together, you know, and she's introducing I.

[Justin]

Guess just like the photo Shoot. Everything was just, like, so hard to watch. Like, not like neither of them looked like they really were, like, into each other.

[Natalie]

And I wish we would have some, like, different type of theme for the photo shoot, too, because it feels very forced where it's like, okay, now we're gonna have the photo of you proposing in case we do do this. We already have it.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

He also didn't say I love you or I'm falling in love with you to Zoe.

[Natalie]

No, it was just.

[Sierra]

I feel confident.

[Natalie]

Yes.

[Justin]

You home next week?

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

Literally, again, like, I mean, it's. If they're going to cut out three episodes, like, don't take four people to hometowns. If you don't have enough, like, episodes to, like, tell a. Tell. Tell at least four different stories of a relationship we should give a fuck about. Maybe change the format. But, like, week six, the fact that.

[Justin]

He'S saying right now, I like Zoe a lot at home, Hometowns is a wild statement to say.

[Ethan]

And yet she didn't get eliminated. She's top three. And I called it right before it happened. I'm like, dina's going home. He had to send her home. As soon as her family doesn't show up, she's gone.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ethan]

You know, it's just like. And I really feel for Dina, and I say this as someone who also has 10 brothers and sisters. Like, she does. She didn't specify religion, but I'm assuming she's Catholic. She referred to her dad being an ordained deacon, which, if you're Catholic, that's like, basically, a deacon is like, someone who's, like, super religious, devout, thought about being a priest, but still wanted a family. And deacons can get married and have kids, and they have certain, like, abilities at a. Like, a church service to, you know, give us a homily that's like the sermon or whatever. They're not quite. They're not a priest. They can't, like, turn the. The bread and the wine into the body and the blood of Christ or whatever, the Eucharist, if, you know. If you're Catholic, you know what I'm talking about. But, like, it's giving Catholic. You know, listen, I'm really disappointed in her parents. How old is she? She's like, late 20s. Late. She's a lawyer, right?

[Sierra]

She's a lawyer from Chicago.

[Ethan]

Like, listen, like, now and I. The way we look at it, we have 18 years. We have 18 years to raise our kids and teach them character and morals and values and lessons in life. And then, you know, when they're adults. It's up to them to like, live their lives. And like, obviously river isn't going to like, we don't expect or want river to live, like be a 20 year old and like need our permission to do life. Like, I hope she asks for advice. I hope she like checks in with us. She'll do things that might disappoint us, we might not have chose for her, but that's part of life. And like, you got to show up for your kids, you know? And like, I get that her parents don't love this, that she's doing this. I, I, you know, they don't have to love it to show up for your kid. But the moment like you like you decided for your daughter to like ruin her experience because, you know, you didn't approve it. Like, I don't know, it's just show up, show up for your kid. You don't have to like it. Show up for your kids. You can even, even when they, even when you show up, you can be, you can be honest. You can be, you know, no one's saying show up and pretend to like it. Be, be the. We love, we love the parents on this show who don't act like fans and show up and like, give a little like caution to their kids and the people and like are just real people. Be that version like, don't just like, not like you. They left their kid on an island and like painted themselves in their family in a light of like, we don't, if you, if you don't do what we agree with, we're not, we're not gonna support you. And like, just like, just, and like, I don't know, being super religious isn't like a, an excuse. Like, I don't know what it's, this is not your against religion to go on tv.

[Sierra]

Do we know it's about the religion part?

[Ethan]

No, but she like referenced, you know, my family's very conservative, my traditional.

[Justin]

And, and she was saying how like this isn't, you know, they don't approve of the fact that like you're dating 25 other women. So I think it definitely had to do with like that.

[Ethan]

But she showed up for a show, she went on the show, she's already on the show. So clearly they didn't like, they didn't love that. And, but again like she's not Gonna, as a 30, almost 30 year old, 31. Yeah. As a 31 year old woman, your kids aren't going to do exactly what you want them to do. You're going to absolutely abandoned them. You're just gonna not show up. You're just gonna be like, nah, we're good.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

No one from her family, like, not even a. One of her siblings was like, I'll be there for her.

[Natalie]

Yeah, that's tough.

[Ethan]

And he had to send her home, you know, because, like, clearly, like, if your family is not gonna, like, they're. They're so against this. I. I mean, I. I wouldn't feel comfortable, like, proposing, Proposing, or moving forward with a relationship. Like, she. She absolutely had to go.

[Sierra]

Can they meet off camera? Has that never happened where, like, a family meets with.

[Ethan]

I met Rachel Lindsay's dad off camera. That was. You know, he's a federal judge. Her whole family was there. I met her mom on camera.

[Sierra]

Her.

[Ethan]

You know, like, yeah, there's. That's huge. That's hugely different than her whole family just being like, no, we want nothing to do with her.

[Nick]

Her.

[Ethan]

And I. And I did meet her dad and I had an. A real good conversation with him. As a federal judge, he wasn't comfortable being on camera, but that has to do with his, like, job and, you know, whatever that's all about. But, like, he very much was there. We were never filmed speaking. He was not part of the show. He wasn't on camera.

[Sierra]

We had a good conversation.

[Ethan]

I had a great, real conversation with him afterwards because, like, obviously, he didn't know I wasn't gonna, you know, like, he showed up for his daughter, you know.

[Sierra]

Yeah. So that could have happened in Dina's situation.

[Ethan]

Yeah. It's just, like, I really fell for her.

[Taylor]

Was it Melissa Rycroft?

[Nick]

Who. Her family didn't want to participate, and.

[Ethan]

Then she ended up winning the season. It's way before on Jason Mesnick next season. All right, well, you're way too much of a fan.

[Sierra]

I'm sad Dina went home, though. I had the biggest crush on her.

[Justin]

I definitely thought she was gonna go farther than Zoe.

[Ethan]

So that was the fact that Zoe is in top three. And, like, she has never really even had. I mean, this is her first one on one, and it's like they have no chemistry.

[Justin]

Zero.

[Natalie]

Well, it made it easy to figure out who. He can't decide between.

[Ethan]

Yes, we know who his tattoo is. And I don't think Latia is. As.

[Natalie]

Juliana is my number one.

[Taylor]

She's.

[Ethan]

It's. Yeah, she. She's the number one. Right.

[Natalie]

That's what I think. She's going to win.

[Ethan]

You change your mind?

[Justin]

No, no. She's always been Team Lat. Team Latia. Till I die.

[Sierra]

Juliana's runner up.

[Ethan]

No, I think.

[Natalie]

I think Juliana's gonna take it.

[Ethan]

I think the religion part is.

[Justin]

But they. Her family was like, we. Like, we don't care.

[Taylor]

You.

[Justin]

As long as you're like, a man of God, which he is. He. He's. He says faith is important to him. They're like, that's all we care. They're like, you don't have to be a Mormon to be a our family.

[Ethan]

Latia looks like I said this to n. Like, first of all, what a great round of hometown dates. And just in terms of New York City, Chicago, Wyoming. Wyoming. This beautiful landscape. Horseback ride.

[Nick]

Massachusetts.

[Justin]

Julian.

[Ethan]

Juliana, like, whatever. I mean, Massachusetts. Lovely family. Lovely, lovely family. Latia looks like a creature who, like, just, like, came out of the woods on a horse.

[Justin]

She looks like a siren.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

Not a creature.

[Ethan]

And I say that. I said. No, that. I meant that in the.

[Natalie]

A mythical creature.

[Ethan]

Mythical, beautiful creature where you're just like, who did this, like, thing come out of the.

[Justin]

She looks like she's created by AI.

[Ethan]

Yeah, she does.

[Justin]

She really does.

[Natalie]

Do we think that there was, like, some form of drama with one of the two, like, as to, like, why they wouldn't. Why they would shelf Bachelorette this season? Or do you think it's just timing.

[Ethan]

The fact that hometowns is in week six and not week nine, budget cuts like you have? I think, you know, we've heard all this drama and turmoil going on internally at the Bachelor franchise. Like, I don't know how Grant season has been doing ratings wise. I don't know. Like, I don't even know how to measure ratings these days with network television when it comes to, like, who's watching it live versus streaming and yada yada, it's like seven yada yada. But clearly, like, it's not. It's not performing what it used to. How it used to perform. They have more and more competition. Like, every time a love competition show, like Love is Blind or Love island pops off, like, doesn't even matter if it's not being aired at the same time. It's just like you're losing out to some competition. Competition.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

You know, it's just like, with the. The. It's hard to watch Love island and then come back to, like, the very vanilla format that is the Bachelor. And, like, the Bachelor is one of the most. I mean, between them and Survivor, like, no one will ever replicate what the Bachelor franchise has done in terms of longevity and legacy. And just, you know, there's. There's something about being a bachelorette or a bachelor that, like, supersedes, like, just being one, one of many, you know, on Love is Blind or. Or Love island or whatever. But, like, they're just. They're not keeping up. Yeah, they're just. They're not. And maybe the network part element of it all matters. It will be really interesting to see what paradise looks like this summer. Do they make meaningful changes? Are those changes seen as cool, unique, different, something that's game changing? Or does it look like a copycat version of other shows like Love island that have worked and like, you know.

[Natalie]

They did cost some more.

[Ethan]

Yeah. But they're still limited. The problem with. The problem with this franchise is just like we've experienced with some of the ladies that we've interviewed. There's, like, there clearly was this, like, wanting to become an influencer, famous and like, there's been a lot of very successful people from. Who've come out of Badger Nation and have done very well for themselves, and it made a meaningful, at least temporary career from what they've been able to do. And it's network television. It's very safe. It's very kind of vanilla. Everyone's very not wanting to ruffle feathers. Villains are villainized for doing literally nothing on this show. You know, like, interrupting whatever, you know, versus, like, the. The. The and drama we get from Love island or, you know, even, like, the Stakes of Love is Blind or, you know, all the, you know, bravo. Just the way they get into it. And, you know, compared to that, like, the Bachelor franchise in general has, like, really, like, has had a hard time keeping up. And so, like, Will Castle cast members go on to paradise and be good television or are they still going to be, like, very careful what they say and very careful what they do and not want to ruffle anyone's feathers because that's what it is now. It's just. Everyone's just afraid to make TV in hopes that they're the. You know, because that's how it used to be. Like, if you were like, the least problematic person who got the, like the. Who went the furthest, you would pop and you would become like this person with a big following and blah, blah, blah. But, like, the world's different now, you know?

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

I need, like, the girl that was like, scallop fingers. Like, I need, like, like, like sound bites and personalities back that, like, dressed up as a shark for their first day to show up to paradise being silly.

[Ethan]

No, I mean, I need something.

[Natalie]

I need something.

[Ethan]

I need something different. I. I need Some real fights. I need some real drama. Speaking of. So wait, I. I'm. I'm going to say Juliana is going to be my winner.

[Natalie]

That's who I think, too.

[Justin]

I'm standing by Latia.

[Ethan]

I think. I think at the last minute, he really likes Latia.

[Justin]

I mean, I can see why he's so torn in the, like, preview where he's like. I can see why.

[Natalie]

I feel like he really got, like, the dad's consent with Juliana. I feel like he.

[Nick]

He.

[Natalie]

Either way, he gets what he wants. He's going to be a part of a big family.

[Ethan]

Do you think he sleeps with anyone?

[Natalie]

Do you think he sleeps with anyone?

[Ethan]

Speaking of double standards, though, back to Hannah Brown's. Like, here you have Latia. Also religious, less, granted, her delivery much different than Luke Parkers back in the day, but nevertheless, the premise still is the same, which is, if you sleep with someone else, I'm not going to pick you. I won't be here. Like, you can have sex with someone else, but I will be leaving if you do. And, like, that was different wording, but exactly what Luke Parker did. And he was the biggest villain in the world for.

[Justin]

I mean, Maddie Pruitt did it too. You know, it's definitely Maddie Pruitt.

[Ethan]

And, you know, where do you stand? Do you have a problem with literally Tia setting this boundary for Grant?

[Natalie]

Luke was talking about his standard for his future wife, saying that, like, she should never have been intimate. Where I'm like, this is where I'm like, for your per. Her religion, let alone that, like, she's been on this journey with all of these 20 women, I wouldn't be able to get over that either. If he slept with somebody before he came on the show as the Bachelor, I don't give two. But, like, yeah, if you slept with somebody that night before you're gonna propose.

[Justin]

To me, yeah, I'm probably gonna say no.

[Ethan]

I mean, Luke Parker got crucified for.

[Justin]

Luke Parker, the guy who Hannah brought.

[Natalie]

There's Luke Pell or Jed.

[Justin]

Pell was a different guy.

[Ethan]

Luke Parker.

[Justin]

Luke Pell was the guy who's gonna be Luke.

[Ethan]

Partner is the. Is maybe the best villain of all time. It's what made.

[Justin]

Yeah, that guy.

[Taylor]

Yeah, he's the windmill, the one who.

[Natalie]

Got upset with Hannah for sleeping with Peter. Oh, I thought his last name was Pell.

[Ethan]

No, Luke Pell is the guy who should have been the Bachelor when I was the Bachelor and then he was on JoJo season. Different. Parker is the guy who was this amazing, amazing villain. Hannah Brown season. He was a huge douchebag. And there's a lot of reasons to hate the guy. Yeah. And his whole, you know, his opening scene scene was like. He was basically like, I a lot in college. And then I, like, met Jesus Christ. And all of a sudden, like, I'm not a douchebag anymore. And then they don't listen.

[Justin]

They don't make television like that.

[Ethan]

And it was like, wait, you got all your. Like, you got all your out of the way, and now you're gonna tell Hannah Brown she can't have sex with people? You know, his delivery was terrible. And he was. He seemed like a worst type of guy, but either way, like, his delivery was basically like, he thought he was the winner. He thought he was like. He was the front runner. She really liked him. And all of a sudden he was like, I'm not going to be comfortable with you having sex. And that is exactly what Latia is. Is saying to Grant.

[Natalie]

And I think that's their prerogative.

[Justin]

I get it.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Justin]

I also wouldn't want that.

[Natalie]

I wouldn't want the guy that's going to propose to me having slept with two girls the night before.

[Ethan]

It usually happens.

[Natalie]

Happy bachelor party.

[Ethan]

It usually happens.

[Natalie]

Anyways, so this week on Summer House, we have what? Jesse and Lexi kind of talking about their relationship. You have Jesse asking Lexi, if I can't say this serious with a straight face. But you have Jesse asking Lexi, hey, so next weekend, do you want to share a bed? Like, share a room together, be roommates? And she's like, no, for sure. I just want to make sure that we're, like, on the same page. That, like, we're, like, only seeing each other, like, working towards that. And then he was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I think we're moving too fast. Yeah, that was like, kind of one of those, like. I had to pause it being, like, the double standard here where you're the one trying to play house for the weekend because you're trying to get laid for the full weekend. The second she's, like, just making sure you're not doing anything.

[Ethan]

That is my. You're making my love is blind point.

[Justin]

Okay, we're back.

[Ethan]

I'm just saying. But, like, you're. I agree. I agree with you, but, like, welcome to 2025, where, like, sex is, like. I mean, we're just talking about. About sex. And people, like, are, like, no biggie when they're like, do you want tonight?

[Justin]

She's putting her expectations up front.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And Dave and Lauren did not have.

[Ethan]

That I'm talking about the. Just the conversation and how we, as society, like, approach sex. And Jesse is approaching sex just, like, I guess, in some ways similar to Lauren, which is like, hey, we're just. We're just having some sex. And, like, all of a sudden. And then Lexi's like, well, hey, hold on. Like, sure, maybe. I don't know. I. It's 2025. Like, I'm cool, but, like, if we do, I want to set some, like, upfront expectations. And Jesse's like, whoa, hold on. Because Jesse's, like, assuming that we can all take our clothes off, exchange fluids, and, like, that's not a big deal, but, like, if you want to start talking about feelings, holy.

[Natalie]

Then, yeah, pump the brakes. No, I agree with that.

[Ethan]

And that's. That's my whole point on love is.

[Natalie]

One, but I think it's different context.

[Taylor]

But what about when they were sitting in the living room and Jesse had his hand all the way up her.

[Natalie]

Shirt just in public?

[Taylor]

Did anybody notice that?

[Justin]

Just cup and a boob.

[Ethan]

I mean, that's the difference between, like, if you're 65 and she thinks you're hot versus not actually.

[Justin]

What was going on with the whole Kyle Rage texting page?

[Natalie]

Okay, so I guess Hannah had done some interview or something stating that the reason why she thinks she got fired from Summer House was because she posted for a competitor of Loverboy. And then Craig obviously signed a deal with Spritz Society, so he's now advertising for a different Seltzer. So he said he's honestly beyond discouraged with Craig, too, that this topic or that this wouldn't be a topic today if it wasn't for him. And about a dozen lies. I can't believe this is where Hannah is at. Three years later, I'm fucking ape. So he's just pissed that, like, two people in her life are now promoting two opposing seltzer companies. But at the same time, it's like, for Paige, she's like, what the. That's.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Why is that none of my business? She responds, being like, you what? Have you ever supported a single thing I've done? Have you ever said anything about my podcast? Have you ever said anything about my book? I drank your drink for seven fucking years. I come to your dumbass events, and I only came here tonight so someone keeps your wife company while you pretend to be fucking Diplo. She ate. But it's true. It's like, Kyle, I guess, has had, like, a monopoly over the beverage that is being shown on Summer House. And you'll Notice that when you look at the mess of the kitchen, it's always going to be lover boy. Cans that we're toasting with, that we're cheersing with, that are left all over. So he's, for some reason feels like he's entitled to come to Paige because her boyfriend and her best friend are doing other things in their career that she has no responsibility is doing wrong, I guess supporting her friends, supporting other business ventures that don't support Kyle.

[Ethan]

She need to support Kyle, period.

[Natalie]

But even then, she's at the rooftop here for your DJ set that I'm sure she has 5, 500 other things she could be doing right now. I don't know where Kyle got the nerve, but I think Paige handled it absolutely 100% correctly because it really. She's like, message them.

[Justin]

I mean, I wonder what she said actually to Kyle. I hope that it was a exact.

[Natalie]

Oh, I mean, it looks like we're about to see that too, because the teaser was something where he calls her two faced. And she's like, you calling me fucking two faced? Kyle, like, coming back down the stairs.

[Ethan]

What do we think of the new guy? Who's the new guy?

[Natalie]

Emeril.

[Ethan]

The guy who's like, having sex with two and a half people tonight.

[Natalie]

What does that even mean, two and a half people?

[Ethan]

That's what he said.

[Natalie]

No, when he said it, I was like. And then Kyle's like, no, this is a New Yorker through and through. And I was like, I couldn't hang.

[Justin]

I'm guessing he's the one who's like, in this threesome that apparently happens.

[Natalie]

I think he. He has to be, but I know.

[Sierra]

Yeah, we know. It's one of the new guys. So him.

[Natalie]

And he mentioned a swing and he's saying how the sex parties aren't as fun as you think they would be. Where I'm like, I don't know who sold you that they would be fun? Because that sounds like.

[Ethan]

How do you do a sex party? Who do you have to know?

[Natalie]

I think you have to be a certain caliber of person for somebody to walk up to you, be like, hey, yeah, you seem like you would enjoy.

[Ethan]

This, but is it like a secret invite? Do you know anyone who's been to one?

[Natalie]

I don't know anybody that's been to one, but I've definitely seen like, blind items about them where it's like, you have to have a password.

[Ethan]

And like, how do you. Where do you. Where does that conversation even start?

[Taylor]

I don't know.

[Natalie]

I don't know. And I'm actually very happy that I don't.

[Ethan]

I could try, you know, remotely curious not to go, but like, doesn't matter. I just want to know how someone like got recruited.

[Natalie]

Not at all. And as I said, I'm very happy. I don't fit the mold of, of invites for.

[Ethan]

Do you just like hang a pineapple outside of your door and hope for the best?

[Natalie]

Guess so come to my dungeon party. Like post yourself in a mask and a thong and see what happens. I don't know.

[Ethan]

Is anyone sad to see Tom Sandoval go other than me on Traders? It was a pretty good exit.

[Justin]

He had a, he had a great run. I think it was coming to an end.

[Ethan]

He's redeemed himself in his self aware kind of.

[Natalie]

I would love to sign off.

[Ethan]

Goodbye.

[Natalie]

I would love to see him do an interview though, to be completely honest, because I'm just curious as to like how his brain works. Post feeling like he's been validated and that people can hear him and listen to him and that his words have meaning.

[Ethan]

Well, you know what to expect from Tom. He's, he's fine.

[Justin]

And Gabby absolutely ate at the round table.

[Ethan]

Finally, Danielle had some competition.

[Natalie]

Yeah, God, I'll hire her for my lawyer.

[Sierra]

She said, now can I speak?

[Natalie]

Yeah, I'm not done yet.

[Sierra]

And then what did she say? She said, I'm not saying I'm dumb.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Oh yeah. When she was like, I think that you're like, not as.

[Ethan]

No, I think you're really smart.

[Justin]

Yeah, I think you're really smart.

[Natalie]

She's like, I'm not saying I'm dumb.

[Justin]

Ever said that.

[Natalie]

And let me continue. I'm excited. We ended with a cliffhanger, so a.

[Ethan]

Lot'S gonna happen next episode because like next episode, the last episode, we find.

[Justin]

Out if Britney voted for Danielle or Ivor.

[Natalie]

What do we think?

[Ethan]

Well, you have, you have Danielle out there on social media teasing that she's safe, like telling, telling her fans not to worry. Now I don't know if that's her just being a really shitty contestant who's spoiling it for the fans and when. It would have been amazing television for Britney to vote for Danielle. I hope Brittany is amazing television.

[Natalie]

The way that she said that she thought she saw Dolores kind of give her an eye and shake her head or like saying that she was voting for Danielle. That's why I think she's voting for Danielle. And I think this would also be kind of interesting because didn't she like double cross Danielle on the last show that they were at. So it's like her thinking that she's siding with like group mentality and still ends up double crossing her would be good television for me.

[Sierra]

If Britney doesn't vote for Danielle, she's obviously, obviously a trader Brittany.

[Natalie]

That too.

[Sierra]

So it's like she has to save herself.

[Justin]

But then we find out whoever this like seer is and like whoever got the most points, which I feel like is Danielle because she got the like 2000 points here. Everyone else kind of lost points. She did the whole gold thing. Like I think she's got to be this year, which. And if she goes home then maybe they would just pass it down to the next person with the most.

[Ethan]

But, well, see, well, we do have Carolyn up next to give us a little bit more insider tea and all the things that went down in the castle. It was a chaotic interview, obviously, obviously with Carolyn coming in and then me having to leave 10 minutes later. But we were able to cross paths. I got to meet her in person. She, like we said at the top of the episode, is just a fascinating human being. And you, you don't really know what to expect. But we got a chance to talk with her. Sierra and Justin finish that interview and that is what you're about to hear next with T Mobile.

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[Ethan]

Carolyn, I love you. Great. I don't care. It's fine.

[Sierra]

I got to catch a fight.

[Ethan]

The one guy everyone hates me. Come on, Caroline, sit down. I gotta go to. I gotta go to. I gotta, gotta go to Alex.

[Nick]

I am.

[Ethan]

Hurry up. I have to catch a flight. Run, run, run, run, run.

[Sierra]

I love her so much.

[Justin]

Where did she go?

[Ethan]

Get in here, get in here. We're so excited to talk with you, Carolyn. How are you? Carolyn just got in from lax. I have to leave promptly for lax. We're crossing paths in la, but I had to stay behind at the risk of pissing off my entire family.

[Nick]

So I'm looking at that picture again and I'm Thinking it all over again. It's a mix between Pilot Pete.

[Ethan]

I've gotten that a lot too.

[Nick]

It's a mix between Pilot Pete and that other guy that I just said. You don't get that a lot. I'm sure.

[Ethan]

I got James Franco years ago. Lately I've gotten Theo Vaugh. I used to get Ryan Reynolds, but yeah, I'll take any of them, you know.

[Nick]

Wow.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So, yeah, thanks for having me. I. And honestly, I do better with chaos, so this is great.

[Ethan]

That's great.

[Natalie]

I know. You seem very Zen brow.

[Nick]

I do. I'm so used to it. It's like, let's go.

[Ethan]

Well, I can talk to you for hours, but we only have like 10 minutes, so what do you want? So you talk your talk your.

[Nick]

See, here's the deal. I'm leaving. I have a lot of, like, mentors right now.

[Ethan]

Mentors.

[Nick]

Yes.

[Ethan]

Okay.

[Nick]

So Boston Rob, Wes. Yeah. And so I'm in this, like, balancing act of like, Carolyn, like, you're leaving because I don't want to be some bitter bitch who's like, in the game. I already get made fun of enough for being so emotional. Like, doesn't she know what she's doing out there? Doesn't she know she's playing a game? Yes, I do. But the traders is different. We're not playing like a big brother survivor. This is different. So, yeah. But I'll always cry in everything and it. It that I'm okay. I don't get what people are so freaked out by. By like crying too.

[Ethan]

The Internet.

[Nick]

Carolyn let me get. I'm doing just fine.

[Ethan]

I stopped listening to the Internet long time.

[Nick]

Oh, I don't read, but people will send. I don't even know like, the. I'll know. Like, okay, everyone loves you or everyone hates you or everyone's pissed about this or everyone other than that. But I'm trying to, like, leave on a good note.

[Ethan]

Here's all that matters. You were excellent television.

[Nick]

Thank you.

[Ethan]

We enjoyed watching you.

[Nick]

Do you think, like, do you think that I thought that, like. I don't. You're used to being around people and like, you have a lot of. Who was just on this show. It was like someone really big. Apparently you're used to it. I'm not. I'm from Minnesota.

[Ethan]

I'm from Wisconsin.

[Nick]

Oh, yeah. That changes a lot then. Okay, never mind then. Like, how do. So it takes a while to get used to this stuff, right?

[Ethan]

I mean, I mean, you know, you don't know much about me, but like, the long time ago I was on the Bachelorette, and I was a villain by. By many people. One of the most hated of all time.

[Nick]

Why?

[Ethan]

It doesn't matter because it's reality tv. Who cares if it's the Bachelor? You can. You get. You get on for, like, breathing the wrong way? And then I just didn't give a. I've never really give the. In most of my life. And I sense that's similar to you, but, like, I just don't care. And, you know, absolutely.

[Nick]

But I. I am, like, that's the thing. I'm a very emotional person, and I have so much empathy. And so even if somebody, like, screws me over, let me, like, have my minute to be like. And then I'm gonna, like. It hurts me if I'm hurting you. So I don't like it, but I don't read a whole ton of crap. Like, you know what I'm saying?

[Ethan]

I'm just texting my wife. I'm not ignoring you.

[Natalie]

I'm listening.

[Nick]

But my point, too. I'll just talk. My point, too, is, like, you. You're used to, like, I show up in this castle, I don't know who a lot of the people are, and I'm scared. I'm really, really, really nervous because it's not what I'm used to. It's not like, I don't selling Sunset or any of these big shows. People are so used to, like, even being on. On tv, being on camera. And so I'm not kidding you. You know how many times I was like, what is. What are people's real personalities? Because it's like the camera comes out, and then I don't have that.

[Ethan]

Who was the most disingenuine person of the cast? Who was the most on camera? Camera on.

[Nick]

I would like. Honestly, Danielle was one of them. And I don't want to just say that because I don't like her, but it was just a very.

[Ethan]

But you don't.

[Nick]

No, no, no, no, no, I don't. I didn't expect it. So, for example, I would say, like, the Bob the Drag Queen, it really is like, the same person on and off camera. Chrishell, she is just very good at, like, be, you know, saying the things and being so.

[Ethan]

She's polished, period.

[Nick]

Yes. Because she's been doing this. But there weren't, like, there's just, like. With Danielle, I'm like, I did not expect. Expect this. Like, we go. Because one on one, I'm like, okay, yeah, like, we're getting along, and then in the turret, it was just. And I. I completely just took that as, like, somebody who's, like, playing there. Like, she's trying to do, like, you know, maybe what Phaedra did or, like, because when they picked me as a trader, I said, I'm not an actress. I'm not gonna be like murder or talking like that. I'm just gonna be like, myself.

[Ethan]

I'm sure they were like, we don't need you to be your.

[Nick]

No, I know, right? Like, but I. I did. I was like. So I felt like, okay, there's people that are going to. Like I expected. Because that's what always bothered me about reality tv. Good is you go on reality TV and people aren't real. And I know is. That sounds stupid. It's true. And so I. I didn't. With Survivor, it's like, people are just so raw and, like, you really can't hide much. You're all out there. I knew it would be a bunch of people who just want screen time and, like, what do I need? I wasn't thinking like that. Like, what do I go out there and say to make sure that I'm getting the airtime? A lot of people think like, that.

[Ethan]

What did you think of Danielle? Swearing on kids and grandkids and all these people and.

[Nick]

Yeah, and you know what?

[Ethan]

You have to whisper. You can just say with your chest.

[Nick]

Like, here, I'm going to be honest with you, Nick, because it is hard because she's getting so much hate right now that it has, like. Like, because, yeah, you. I had a lot of poems about her and I was, like, pissed. But at the end of the day, it's like, okay, it's a game, Carolyn. But I don't believe that. That's just what I'm told, the swearing on your grandkids thing. So, again, I have, like, a hard time, like, talking crap because she's already getting so much hate. So it sucks. But here's my opinion, outside of, like, the talking, is that when I watch the Traders and I know we're only on season three, I just didn't expect anyone to go to that level. Oh, well, here. Here's the deal. We're playing a game, and I never even knew what the prize pot was at. I'm not rich, but, like, girl, you were going, like, I'm not going to do anything. Like, like, was just not, like. And I truly thought that this was a game, like, to have fun. And for me, good people watch, like, Big Brother in these shows, and it's like, almost like, go watch football. Or something. I don't watch it for like the strategy or. Oh, you do. I don't like, have some strategy, but I don't give a shit about like this move or this move. I don't. I want to be entertained and I don't get entertained by that. And so it was hard, hard for me. I didn't think that. I didn't think like we needed to go to that level with the people that we were playing with. And I'm not saying the people we were playing with aren't intelligent, but what I'm saying is like, you think Dolores thinks that people do that? No. Or Lord Ivar. They don't. And Chris Shell. So seeing Chris Shell and that's when I really knew I was like, she had tears in her eyes. Tears. And I'm like, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I was doing that good. And like, that's the game. That's Big Brother. That's other. Not the traitors. Is.

[Ethan]

Yeah, I would definitely not. Even if, like I was faithful and someone asked me to swear on anyone, anything of value. If I was a faithful, I just, I'd be like, no, it's stupid. It's like, no, like, I wouldn't like I would be offended by that position.

[Nick]

But the argument is like that that's the, the gamers versus non gamers. And that's like, you do what you got to do to win. That's how Those Big Brother fans are a little nuts.

[Ethan]

I don't care that much, like, if I, I think I'm. I've been obvious. I've become a fan of the show. I've watched it, like they've asked me the show in the past. I haven't been able to make it work. I hope someday I'll have a chance to do it in the future. But like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't care that much to swear on my.

[Justin]

No, I know exactly.

[Ethan]

Like, I would care. I would try. I would have fun. I'd get into it. But like the moment someone's like, swear on your kids. I'm like, fuck off.

[Natalie]

It's not that serious.

[Nick]

It's not. That's. And so for me, I was coming off of a hard year. And you know, know what? I was excited when I got that call because I'm not some two time winner. I'm not some freaking Survivor champion Hall of Fame. So I was freaking excited. I just wanted to go wild, bust out. And so it just, it did. It sucked. I thought, I thought that it was a show for, like, fun. I mean, we're in a freaking castle. We got la la. We got like, come on. So. But it was a great time.

[Ethan]

You hated it.

[Nick]

No, I'm great fun.

[Taylor]

You had fun.

[Nick]

I had fun. But I could have had more fun if it wasn't so serious. And again, and I don't want to say this, I don't want to be like, the gamers are ruining the show. I don't want to. I don't think that they're ruining the show. But it doesn't need to be taken to that level of like, it takes the fun out of it. Because at the end of the day, you want to watch people having fun on a TV show, not, like, taking like, personal attacks or, like, swearing on their. That becomes icky, in my opinion, which is probably why they edited it out.

[Ethan]

Did you have a harder time watching it or doing it?

[Nick]

Oh, girl. Do. Doing it. Watching it. Like, I. I don't. And I really don't get embarrassed easily. I could literally, like, on this couch right now.

[Ethan]

I'd rather not.

[Nick]

Did expensive, but, like, with something else.

[Ethan]

But anyway, like, I didn't you your pants out there?

[Nick]

No. I got my period on the breakfast chair. The first. And I know. Is that inappropriate?

[Ethan]

No, not for us.

[Nick]

And you know, so you try going to breakfast. You're a woman. You understand. I go down to breakfast. This is my first breakfast. I'm wearing a yellow skirt and I'm excited. I'm feeling cute. They already had to tape my nipples to the thing and my bra was coming off, so I was already a little bit stressed. But it's my first breakfast where I have to like, hi. I get up and I. There's like a murder scene and I am like, oh, my God. Oh, my God, what do I do? And thankfully Dolores helped me. But like, yeah, I literally, like, I am a murderer and I have blood all over me and I am. Yeah.

[Ethan]

You're like, wow, she's a traitor.

[Nick]

You're like, oh, my God, I die. So, yeah, that's the type of. That just happens to me. But even then I didn't get, like.

[Ethan]

Blood on your hands.

[Nick]

Yeah, sorry.

[Ethan]

I could go on.

[Nick]

It's nasty. But no, like, I am grateful for the experience because it is such a huge freaking show and it's so incredible. And when you're out there, like, it's gorgeous, it's beautiful, it's a cool show. So no, like, monsters is going to ruin that for me.

[Ethan]

I could have so many questions, but I have to Go.

[Nick]

But, yeah, you got to go.

[Ethan]

Like, girl, I'm going to leave. If you guys have more questions.

[Nick]

Great.

[Ethan]

Ask. Caroline. Thank you. Thank you for making.

[Nick]

Yeah, this was like, girl. I was like, I'm not coming from the airport.

[Ethan]

No, Caroline, it's been so much fun. Thanks for coming.

[Justin]

My name's Carolyn.

[Ethan]

Carolyn. That's what I said.

[Nick]

I didn't want to correct you, but.

[Ethan]

I get bad with names.

[Sierra]

I've told him so many times.

[Ethan]

What am I saying?

[Sierra]

Carolyn, you're still changing it.

[Ethan]

I'm saying Caroline, it's okay.

[Natalie]

We've got multiple shows where it's Carolina, Carolyn, Caroline, and he says them all. All in her.

[Ethan]

No one gets my last name right.

[Nick]

How do you say it?

[Ethan]

Great question.

[Nick]

How is it?

[Ethan]

It's vial. People say, vi val veil, girl.

[Nick]

That's because you literally rhyme your show with girl. Like vile file.

[Ethan]

I'm an idiot. What do you want me to like.

[Nick]

I thought this was a crime pod.

[Ethan]

I thought.

[Nick]

I'm like, when. When they asked if I wanted to do the vial files, I was like, I'm not doing some, like, investigation discovery.

[Ethan]

Maybe that's our problem. Maybe we have a marketing problem.

[Nick]

You know what I'm saying? The vial files. I thought this was some sort of a.

[Ethan]

Like, I started a podcast six years ago. I did. I. Topher Grace gave me the idea of the name. I was like, cool. That rhymes. And then, like, I, you know, if I knew this show would be as big and successful as it was, I would have thought of something different.

[Nick]

So. No, you're doing a great job. I'm jealous, so that's the truth.

[Natalie]

That's too late for a rebrand, Carolyn.

[Ethan]

I get it. Right.

[Nick]

Thanks for having me, Nick.

[Ethan]

I love you. I'm so sorry. I have to go.

[Nick]

No, it's all good. I'm really grateful to be here.

[Sierra]

Well, can I just say, you're my favorite on Traders. I haven't seen a single episode of Survivor, but you make me want to watch it.

[Nick]

Well, tell. Say that to Jeff Probst. That's really bring her back. Because not even that, but like, that this show, like, it. Truly, truly. This brings other people in who's never. And I've had so many people reach out to me and was like, I never saw Survivor and now I'm watching. So it is. It's true. It brings to. Because again, like, people warn me, like, okay, like, there's different fan communities, like the Bravo people. The. And I've been now exposed to, like, all. Yeah, it's. It's Interesting. Every little community is different.

[Sierra]

Would you say that the survivors are grouped into, like, the gamer tag of it all?

[Nick]

I feel like, okay, yes, the gamer. But I feel like Big Brother, though, is like its own. So crazy. It's both cbs. It's both like the gamer category, but I feel like Big Brother, the Big Brother, like, fandom. It's just, It's. That's a different. I don't even know what that's on.

[Natalie]

Because, I mean, the whole point of, like, Big Brother is, like, being manipulative and, like, trying to get people out. But you're all, like, living in a house together. I'm like, at least Survivor. It's like you're trying to survive and then vote people out so I can.

[Nick]

Get the hell away from these people. Like, I would never be able to do Big Brother. And it ain't even about the live feeds and all that bullshit. It's about being trapped in a house.

[Justin]

You my nightmare.

[Nick]

No. And even on Traders, like, I could at least, like, because I would. I would get like. Usually I would just say, like, I like, poop my pants or something truly. And just go and just get a minute alone or get. I need that. I cannot be around. I can't be on 24 7. I can't. And it is. It's so much in a day that, like, it's. It is. It's hard. So on Big Brother. Hell, no. No. But the gam level of like. Yeah, no.

[Natalie]

What's like, going through your mind, especially your last episode, while everybody's trying to, like, figure out, like, who's getting murdered or, like, who they think traders are? Like, what's going through your mind while you're sitting there, like, knowing that you are a traitor and hearing everybody's theories or guesses and like, like, wait, hold on.

[Nick]

Were we talking about the last episode?

[Natalie]

Yeah, like the last. Last episode specifically. But like, even just any breakfast in.

[Nick]

General, that's the thing saying it so. Oh, so my whole thing always. This was my plan because I'm like, if we're. If. Okay, we're all. We're supposedly face faithful. So, like, let's just go with the evidence. Unfortunately, the evidence typically is just like someone sneezed in a certain direction or something. Just so stupid and so that. But it's like you take hold of it. So one per. That was my plan. That was my. What I was going to do. So one person. So like Robin. I remember I had said something about Wells. I'm like, okay, yeah, sure. It was early on like, who cares? And so, okay, make it stick. And that's why I felt like I had so much on Danielle when I finally was going for her, that I was like. But I couldn't make it stick. I couldn't make it stick. And then I do. I believe at the end, like, people just knew she was a traitor. Not all of them, but some. And so I get like, whatever. But early on, it's kind of. And then the theories, the Cage theory and all this, like, it's. And it is. It's not fun playing like that. I would much rather, like, vote people out because, yeah, they sneezed that day or something. It's these theories in these. But I tried to play the game with, like, let's just follow the evidence. And it's like, girl, I just wanted to have fun. Truly.

[Natalie]

How hard was it working on a team of traders that couldn't get on the same page? And that was including Rob and Danielle.

[Sierra]

Bob the drag queen.

[Nick]

Okay. I've watched the show. I've watched all the seasons. I've watched the uk, the, like, all of them. And I'm like, yeah, I am a fan, and I do own a clothes. Oh, can I sleep in it? And I'm like, that was a dream. I was excited. My whole thing going in was like, okay, I'm not gonna go for them until they come for me or they, like. Or. Or until it becomes so obvious that one of them are a traitor. Then, like, yep, I'll throw them under the bus, like. Or I'll vote along with it, but I'm not gonna. Like, that was never. But we start going for each other so quick. And again, I didn't see it. Like, I. I understand where Rob was completely coming from now, but out there, no, I was like, your ego. And, like, honestly, coming off of my, like, own, like, whole era of, like, don't you tell me what to do. I'm an independent. Like, I was bringing a whole ton of that in there. And I've seen Boston Rob seasons, and I'm like, I don't want to be your Philip. Because that was like, he had his little, like, person on the side. I was like, no, I don't want. And it was a lot of my own of, like, I don't try trust a man. I don't. And especially one who is like, Boston Rob. Good. You're too good. And I was intimidated. I was jealous of him. Good. So I'm like, you can talk. Perfect. You can. Even that round table where he went, I didn't Want him gone. I had written him a poem. I just didn't get a chance to read it to him in person yet. But I didn't want him to go. But it would, like, truly certain things would trigger me. Like, the way people treat. Treated Tom. Because I saw a lot of myself in Tom.

[Taylor]

Okay.

[Nick]

And good. And I shouldn't see. It's like, the cool thing to do right now is to make fun of Tom. The cool thing to do is to, you know, he's a, you know, dirt ball and he's a narcissist, and he's all like, I. I love Tom. And I don't, like, cancel me tomorrow. I don't, like. I. I will say that out loud because I truly don't believe that any person, anyone, ever, deserves to be judged forever by their past. I am somebody who has a. I don't have a good past. I used to hate myself. I used to not like the person I was. I've done some bad things that I'm not proud of. So has Tom. And it's like, how long does this person have to, like, be punished? So again, I'm not gonna. Like, there's people who don't like him for certain reasons, and that's fine. Like, go ahead and not like him. You may have, like, a personal, exact experience with him, but my experience with him, I loved him. So when people weren't listening to him, it, like, even though I was wanting to work with Rob, I mean, I wasn't going to, like, go above and beyond to save him, because I couldn't. The way that Tom, like, he's saying valid points, he's saying things that did make sense that day, but nobody would listen to him because it was Tom. And so I spoke. Spoke up, and I'm like, just like, he did this group mentality of, like. And I get jealous of people, like, but I'm just being real. This is, like, embarrassing, but it's true. I just was like, I'm so sick of you sounding so perfect and sounding. And again, he is. He's a great person and a great. But out there, I was. I. I was. I was like, I can never talk like that. I could never be, like, that eloquent speaker. And you know what? Somebody who's, like, a little bit weird and quirky, like, Tom, no one's going to listen to. So again, I saw myself in that, and I'm like, shut up and let him talk.

[Natalie]

Yes.

[Sierra]

Was he as sweaty in person as we saw on tv?

[Nick]

Yeah, just at the beginning. But you Know what I'm saying? I like, literally got my period on the breakfast chair. So it's like, who the hell.

[Sierra]

Okay.

[Nick]

You know what I'm saying? We all, like, we're all human humans. Who the hell hasn't sweat here? You know what I'm saying? And I'm not trying to be like, okay, but he literally was wearing like a gray. That is the worst color to wear. And the man lost. Or his bag. His luggage wasn't there yet. He did not have any clothing. So it's like he was working with what he could work with. And wearing that hot ass sweater. It was like literally thicker than. And then he's wearing a gray T shirt.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I love Tom and I truly believe. And I've told him this a million times. I was like, you are a freaky. Like, you're a weirdo. He is a weirdo in the best way though. And I love freaks and I love weirdos and I love people who are different. I. From the minute, like. And I'm like, o. So I always love just like around with him and scaring him and I'd like be spying on him and doing weird. I loved him, but he opened up about like his struggles and what it just. Just crap. And again, what drew me to him though was I saw myself in him. I saw like the people not taking him seriously. I've experienced all of that.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

There's many times out there where I felt like the female Tom.

[Natalie]

Because you did say that during the chess game or something. You were saying how, like, nobody listens to you.

[Nick]

So here and then Dylan like, sorry, don't be. You like, girl, you see me and Dylan talking and he's like, I know. And I'm. I hate that I. Because I go, if I were Boston Rob, would you be listening right now? He's like, I know. And I hate that I've been doing this to you. Not listening. Then you hear him say before that he's talking about how nobody thinks that but Carolyn, that's a bunch of. That's not great, girl. We've seen it. People not listening to me. Like, stop. But anyway, he. With that chess thing. And this is like the human part of me because I can never play any of these damn games. I don't care how much the prize pot is. I don't care how I can never play. And. And I can't separate it. I try and then it just. I can't. Tom was on a mission to redeem himself, right? Tom was on this. I going to be a Faithful. He took it very seriously. As we saw in the lullaby thing. He was trying really hard. I remember I was like, for me, like, I ain't going to be running really hard. You're not going to catch me. No way. I love Kate's style of, like, just, like, throwing stuff. And, like, I'm not hauling all this gunpowder because I know that there's about five other macho men who want to have that moment. Moment in that shot of them running. Let them. I. I told Gabby, I'm like, girl, we can take a break right here. Hauling that.

[Natalie]

Forget.

[Nick]

I don't care. I don't care if my head's up there. I'm a traitor. But, like, I just didn't care. Yeah. When it came to that. So with Tom, Tom was trying. He was trying. So for me, I'm like, when he said, like, oh, he's the leader, or had said. I think he had answered it first, that he could be the leader. Leader. Okay. I just wanted for one moment for Tom to not feel alone and feel like there was somebody else on that cast who believed in him. That's the truth. That is my heart talking. And I wanted somebody to. I wanted him to just feel for one second that he was not alone in thinking that he could be this leader.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And I know that's, like, good. And, like, again, obviously, it's like, we see him mess up a lot more. We see him like, I don't care. I love it. And I really hope that even as he watches this back, it's like, I feel like this has helped him. I feel like it's kind of made him, like, a little bit lovable.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Good. Should I shut up about Tom? I do. I think he's great, and I just don't think that anyone needs to be punished, you know, the rest of their life.

[Natalie]

The doll challenge, I feel, like, made him so endearing because he really was trying so hard.

[Nick]

I mean, I don't know if they put this on, but he was like, warming up.

[Sierra]

Buckle us.

[Nick]

And I was like, I couldn't believe it. But again. And so when other people would be like, side eyeing him, I would be like, go, Tom. And I wasn't doing it in, like, a condescending, like me. I would always tell people, shut up. Like, because I get those looks, too. And you saw it during the season, like, the. I get that all the time.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So I, I, I can just relate to that. And I just, I, I loved him. Good. Put me in prison.

[Sierra]

I do really respect this about you because I know when you were banished, you had your kind of little speech of, like, being judged for being different or being quirky. Like, we're more than just that. Like, we are humans. You can, like, see us past that, and I respect that. That you're, like, taking an inclusive approach of seeing people for who they are, beyond what's not the norm.

[Nick]

And I loved. Nikki's had. Nikki had a similar like of. Just because people were judging her and thinking that she was going to, like. And it's like, seriously, Wes. Because Wes expected her to, like, come out, apparently in a wrestling outfit, like, oh, my gosh. And I'm thinking, like, this isn't the wrestling ring, but I'm a traitor. And so I'm like, yeah, it's Nikki. But Nikki was sad, like, because Nikki was pretty quiet when she was out there. She was pretty reserved. She had her people. You know what I'm saying? Nikki is not, like, this is not the. What does she wrestle for the wwe? Yeah, this isn't the wrestling ring. But she said that, like, the. I loved her speech. I thought it was beautiful because it is so true. Like, we have these. And I did it. I'm not going to lie. I did it to people out there where I judged them or I thought they. I thought. Thought Wes was a freaking. I was like, ew. He was one of the first people that I was like, oh, my gosh, I was wrong. You are not an. You are. Same with Boston Rob.

[Natalie]

Really?

[Nick]

Absolutely.

[Natalie]

Wes is a sweetheart.

[Nick]

I thought he was amazing. I thought that I had a good experience with him because I know, too. Isn't there, like, some aggressive talk or something? Like, I didn't have that experience. But even, like, when I watched the show back and saw even, like, how Boston Rob talked with Michelle, I'm thinking in my head, like, we did. We. Me and Boston Rob did not have that type of relationship, but at the same time, I'm a traitor. Like with Boston Rob, right? You have to, like, spend time and have your little, like, alliances and whatnot. But we, like, in. In Boston Rob's defense, we never had the time to, like, actually sit down. And it was always like, quick, what are we going to do? Go? And that's it. So of course. But with Wes, I just found him, like, again. Again, like, he. His jokes and, like, my opinion, like, not everyone understood his humor, right? But I thought he was, like, the first thing I said to him, I'm like, how the hell have you been doing this for this long? And he's like, carolyn, I am dead inside. Or he was like. But he's like, I have to just separate it. And he's like, he always calls himself a sociopath. And I'm like, you're not. First of all, he really is, he is somebody who has helped me a lot even as after the game. And I just, I do, I think he's a great person. I think he like turns it on and off for tv, but truly is even out there I saw a very kind person because he knew who I was from Survivor and he, he, he's like, yep, you're the one who just makes all those faces. And I'm like, I'm more than that, Wes. But no, I thought, I thought he was great.

[Sierra]

Do you think because you've talked about like group mentality that there's like a popular kids group in the castle?

[Nick]

Oh, girl. Yeah. I was trying to get in with those Bambies from Hawaii.

[Sierra]

The Bambi girl.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And like again. But at the same time, it's exhausting to. Here's the truth. I had some really like just moments like off camera with people where it was like, oh my gosh. Where I'm like connecting with them and I would just feel gross and make fun of me. I, I don't care. It felt so icky to. I know we're not actually murdering them, but for this, the only way I would have been able to do this role of the traitor is if I could just again keep it light and blah, blah, blah. But it felt so, like unfair to be doing this with like you know, a Tom or a housewife or. Do you get what I'm saying? It felt so gross because they are not you. Well, maybe they should be used to it then. Carolyn. I don't care. Felt icky. So when I would like bond with these people, I felt gross inside. So when I'd be crying, like, and this is like off camera conversations of like real life stuff going on where I'm connecting. I'm thinking like Dolores specifically. She knew some. Just stuff that was going on in my life and were crying and then I'm like, oh my God. And I just murdered Robin. And it felt like, good. I don't, I don't care. It didn't feel good for me. I don't, I don't like to. So when I, when I said I wanted to be a trader, I wanted to be a trader, but I, I thought that. And I even asked Sandra before the show, I said, are people like. Because when you watch there's not a whole ton of like, backstory or, like, because on Survivor, it's like, this is what I went through and accomplished. Like, it talks about, like, just my. My life. I thought with Traders, I'm like, they don't do that here. So even, like, when there were times where I was talking, like, because there's times where it's like, okay, just save that for the camera or whatever, I was like, do you guys even give a. About this past stuff or my trauma? Like, do you get what I mean? I didn't think. I thought this show was just, like, upbeat and fun and whatever, you know what I'm saying? So I. I was like, they're not going to use that anyway. But I would have those. Like, I. Sandra had said, like, oh, yeah, no, girl. Like, we're just playing and it's like, blah, blah, blah. No, like, again, there are people who obviously are going. And I'm not saying it's not okay to emotionally manipulate people. I just can't. I. I could do that in Survivor with other gaming people. It just felt icky in that environment. So when I would connect and. And it just felt, like, wrong.

[Sierra]

Yeah. You're making me think of MJ last season, where it's like, she's from Bravo and she got played last minute by the two gamers left, Trishell and ct. And like, for me as a viewer, I was. I felt so betrayed for her.

[Nick]

I was. Yeah, that. What. And then people. And this is what I hate, too. Like, shut up and let her feel it. Like. Like, let her. You know what I'm saying? It's like, that hurt. I was even shocked. I was like, come on, she's clear. Like, you. Y'all knew, but that's the game. I don't care. I don't like watching games like that. Let's all win together then. I don't care. Good. We all. And I guess I can respect how other people feel, too. That's just not how I feel. And I did not. When I would see, like, Danielle crying to that extreme, I'm like, girl, I don't like this. I don't want to do that. And so I was like, the only way I can do this is if I try to keep it surface level or if I try to just. And so I really did. I. I was like, just do the best that you can and have, like, the how you doing? Bullshit conversations. But that sucks, too.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

From the chess game. When did you kind of realize that Danielle had. You didn't.

[Nick]

No, I. We're sorry to finish.

[Natalie]

I didn't know if you realize that Danielle double crossed you or that you outed yourself with helping Tom with the answer.

[Nick]

Okay, no, here's the deal. That was me believing in Tom. Okay, yeah, good. I put that answer because it was freaking funny. Like that's the thing. You could like create a million different scenarios with like when she was like, see, I set her up with that, that Britney one because Britney, I'm close with Britney, blah blah blah. And that makes it look suspicious. Yeah, girl. Gabby was picked for the two face one too. I don't think that was on there. Gabby was picked for the two faced one. You don't. But I don't talk like that. I'm not going to go in my damn confessional and be like, you see here I'm close to Gabby and that's going to put suspicion on Danielle. Hell no, I don't. I was like, I woo. That's me. So no did anytime. And I would say this even when we were thinking of like who to murder. I was like, I almost need to do the damn opposite of anything that this person says. That's how I felt. So that's why I say I think there's a confessional where I say something like I'm like overthinking everything. So if she's agreeing to something, I'm thinking like, oh my gosh, no, then that's. Then I should do the opposite. So do you try like thinking like that? But when it came, I willingly put myself as the like loud voice where no one listens to voice. Because this was my thought. Okay. My thought was like I'm so loud about this. I am so loud about no one. You can't hear me. And nobody did that. It would look way too freaking like that is like the double obvious of like a traitor would never freaking put themselves as that position is I am the loud ass one being like no one listens to me. So in my opinion, opinion, they clearly just thought I was a complete idiot. That's my opinion. Sorry. Clearly if they're like the Carolyn put herself there. My problem. Yes, I answered it because that's what we were doing. We were going off of whether I believe it or not. So again because Dylan's like, nope, that's not what everyone thinks. Yes it is first off. But second, we were going off of like the, the, the read of the room. And recently I had been or I had been saying it so much so it was like, okay, well I guess I always say that so that could be an answer. Just like Sierra had said Britney's or going under the radar or whatever the.

[Justin]

Hell do you know?

[Nick]

I mean, like, the read of the, like, what.

[Natalie]

And what just happened?

[Nick]

What just happened? No, but, yeah. The only suspicious thing I did was argue with Dolores.

[Taylor]

Okay.

[Nick]

And then stand up for Tom. Too much. Good. That's my heart talking.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And I don't regret it. I never felt, like, suspicious. But again, that wasn't enough to get me, like, it's all good. Like, truly.

[Natalie]

So were you shocked by Danielle's turning on you at the round table?

[Nick]

Yes. I, like, girl, I was not. I wasn't. I wasn't prepared, but I'm not gonna. I was too hard on myself. Like, I always am. And when I say, like, I wasn't ready, like, I wasn't prepared for, like, just a lot of the stuff that she said because I felt like it was so crazy that I was like, this is not happening. Because I felt so gaslit where it's like. And then I'm saying things and it was just flipped around. Like, it, like, I've been scared and Jeremy. And I'm like, wait, what. How. How is this happening? I was in shock.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

To be honest, because I truly wanted to just wait because it's scary. Like, again, I'm playing. I. I love Tom, but I knew I couldn't depend on Tom. You think I'm gonna be like, yo, tomorrow, like, before, you're like, can I count on you if this ain't like, Survivor where you can freaking do that and, like, pull together numbers? You can't. Some. Well, I guess Boston Rob can. Yeah, I can't. And so before that round table, first of all, there was not time. So I had talked to Gabby and I talked to Dylan. Okay. That. Lord, I. I knew Dolores was not like, I'm like, girl, she ain't gonna vote for Danielle. Tom I knew I couldn't depend on, but I figured he could at least read the room long enough to, like, understand, like, this is where the vote was going and, like, pick me. But I didn't think. I just didn't think I'd be out. I really didn't. So we have a plan, Carolyn. I didn't frickin need one because I literally have been. And I didn't think of the chess crap as, like, I gave it all away. So. You know what I'm saying? I just. I was not in a gala. Girl, she's like, you photoshopped a picture of a. Or you photoshopped your head on the body of a traitor. You think I can tell Lord Ivor or Dolores or anyone else there that, like, hey, the season two cast, they're all wearing cloaks. Janelle wasn't a traitor, though. I just used her body when I photoshopped my face on it, you know, I was embarrassed. I was like, looking at Ellen, like, oh, my God. And she owns a cloak. Yeah, I do, girl. I sleep in it.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

I think they're just authentic. Like, that's how I read.

[Nick]

It was just like, can you imagine? How am I supposed to. But it was so ridiculous, the stuff that I was like. I just remember looking at Allen and feeling so embarrassed because I'm like, yeah, I do sleep in a cloak, Alan. It was just. It was. Yeah.

[Sierra]

Would you say that a lot of the distrust within the Traders came from, like, Danielle playing games?

[Nick]

Really? When I think about this, honestly, thankfully Boston Rob did that. Otherwise it kind of. Well, though, then Dylan had obviously told me that Danielle's throwing my name out. And I found out that started, like, the crazy, but I understand why he did that. But I don't care what anybody says. Once somebody does that to you, it's really hard to, like, be like, all right, let's play, let's play together. And, like, move on.

[Sierra]

She kept doing it, too. It's like, so.

[Nick]

But then. I know. But like, to the audience, though, they don't really hear. It's like, I've been trying, but Carolyn's unstable. Yeah, I am unstable now.

[Natalie]

Well, you've got Reunion coming up.

[Nick]

Yeah, I'm excited. I'm lying, I'm lying. And here's why. Things do hurt me. But again, I write about it, I journal about it. And then. And it was the same way on Survivor where I had my meltdown. It's like, people don't realize that these games, like, it's a lot. And I play as myself, so things hurt, okay? Things hurt. And I would, like, argue in my head, like, well, Carolyn, this is a part of your strategy. You're yours. But it's like, yeah, but it's myself. And so when I see the side eyes and when I. But it helps you in the game, it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt my feelings. It doesn't mean that words don't hurt still. And again, it's like, at the end of the day, at the. Like, what do I change? What do I got to change? Because if I might get far in the game, but if nobody is actually respecting you or taking you seriously, then what is the point? What's the point? So it's like, I don't. Like what? What? I don't want to change. Good. I. So I'm excited, but I'm.

[Natalie]

Do you have things prepared that you want to hash out or.

[Nick]

No, no. And you know what? And I said this. I said this before the Traders. I was like. Because I do trip over my words. I am a. I have a slow processing speed. I am somebody who needs a minute. And I get really triggered by people yelling at me, and I get really triggered by people talking down to me, like, you don't know my life and what. Like. And that's the thing. We don't know what people have been through before you. And when you're talked to like that, it's like, girl, so what was I saying? Like, yeah, this union. Yeah, it's hard. So, like, going into this, it's like, oh, I always. I. So, like, for Final Tribal at Survivor, I was like, I'm just gonna speak from my heart. It's like, when am I gonna learn? But I don't really give a shit. Like, I'm not changing. And I said. I said. I was like, I wonder if I should take some debate classes before the Traders and just like. Because I want to sound polished sometimes. I want to sound like Boston Rob sometimes. But then I wouldn't be me, you know?

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So it's like. But, like. So I guess I'll just, like, like, cast me again and I'll make it to episode. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. I don't know what to do. But, like, yes. Sometimes I wish that I didn't react so emotionally. Sometimes I wish that. But again, at the end of the day, like, that's. That's me, and I couldn't, like, I can't turn that off. That's not a character. That's not a. So, yeah. Comments hurt. So going into the reunion, I guess. I guess I should have, like. But yeah, once again, I'm not going to be prepared and we'll see how it goes. But Boston Rob will defend me.

[Natalie]

Well, we absolutely loved watching you on Traders, and I think you should stay being authentically yourself.

[Nick]

Yes.

[Sierra]

And please come back to Survivor and I'll watch my first season with you on it.

[Nick]

Thank you.

[Natalie]

Well, we're wishing you the best of luck for the reunion, and we're come back after.

[Nick]

Yeah, I'm excited. I'm gonna look cute. That's all I care about, to be honest.

[Natalie]

That's all that matters.

[Nick]

I don't really. The rest, like, are we supposed And I already know it's gonna be like that. Where it's gonna be like, I don't want. Good. Let me be positive. But that's not entertaining, right?

[Natalie]

It is for us.

[Sierra]

I was gonna say I love it. I love you.

[Natalie]

So we love you.

[Nick]

I just don't want to like, again. This is like, I had my moment after the show, watching it because I was like, oh. But now I'm in a place where it's like, I don't want to. Like, there's nothing that anyone is gonna say. I don't need to rehash this again and be like, what you do. I don't like, I don't. With her. I don't.

[Sierra]

Not worth it.

[Nick]

I feel good and I really do feel like, you know, I. I did my best. And again, it's not about that. I'm not a gamer in that sense of like, this was my move. I don't give a shit and I don't care to like.

[Natalie]

No.

[Nick]

Smells like something in here, but I don't know what. What is. It's those candles. Why are they so big? Would you like.

[Sierra]

So big.

[Nick]

God, Sonia, thank you, thank you.

[Ethan]

Thank you guys for listening. Hope you enjoy this episode. Thank you to our guest Carolyn and Taylor for joining us today. Don't forget, no going deeper tomorrow. But there is one this Friday. We'll have one of the finalists from the Traders on this Friday for an awesome going deeper. You will be. It'll be exactly the person you hope it will be. That's what I think. That's what I think. Tell me I'm wrong on Friday. That's this Friday. And again, we're back on Thursday's reality recap. See you then. Bye.

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