E895 - Grant Ellis, Ingrid Andress, White Lotus, RHOBH, Denise Richards Premiere, and Stolen Baby Names

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Viall Files Episode E895

Title: Grant Ellis, Ingrid Andress, White Lotus, RHOBH, Denise Richards Premiere, and Stolen Baby Names
Release Date: March 6, 2025
Hosts: Nick Viall, Natalie Joy, and the Household

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1. Introduction

The episode kicks off with Nick Viall welcoming listeners to another engaging edition of The Viall Files Reality Recap. The hosts briefly navigate scheduling confusions about upcoming events, setting a lighthearted tone for the discussions ahead.

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2. Stolen Baby Names

Discussion Overview:
The hosts delve into a listener's dilemma about a best friend allegedly stealing their chosen baby name. Caroline recounts a story where a woman received a critical DM after posting a casual outfit picture, sparking a conversation about privacy and respect in personal choices.

Notable Quotes:

• Natalie Joy (02:39): "This is why people struggle to learn English. And I understand clearly this is a great debate."
• Grant Ellis (11:01): "Names are fair game. You don't get dibs on any type of middle name."

Insights:
The conversation highlights the importance of setting boundaries when sharing personal information, especially sensitive topics like baby names. The hosts emphasize the value of trust and discretion in friendships to prevent such conflicts.

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3. Ingrid Andress's National Anthem Performance Controversy

Discussion Overview:
The hosts discuss singer Ingrid Andress’s infamous national anthem performance during the MLB All-Star Game, which deviated from the expected rendition. The episode touches on her subsequent admission to rehab and the public's reaction to her performance.

Notable Quotes:

• Caroline (03:35): "I love the need to tell you as to why versus just doing."
• Natalie Joy (19:07): "I don't feel bad for Harvey Weinstein."

Insights:
Ingrid's performance sparked significant backlash, leading to introspection about the pressures faced by artists in highly publicized events. The discussion underscores the importance of mental health awareness and the stigmas surrounding public mistakes.

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4. Harvey Weinstein's Reaction to Adrien Brody's Mention of His Children

Discussion Overview:
The hosts analyze the public relations move by Harvey Weinstein's representative responding to Adrien Brody mentioning Weinstein's children in an Oscar speech. The conversation critiques the insincerity and strategic messaging behind Weinstein's response.

Notable Quotes:

• Nick Viall (15:34): "He definitely did not say that."
• Caroline (15:54): "What is a worse job than..."

Insights:
The segment highlights the manipulation often present in high-profile controversies, where responses are tailored more for image management than genuine remorse. It also touches on the continued negative perception of Weinstein in the public eye.

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5. Review of "White Lotus"

Discussion Overview:
The hosts engage in a spoiler-filled discussion about the latest developments in the TV show White Lotus, speculating on plot twists and character motivations. They debate potential culprits in recent mysterious events within the show.

Notable Quotes:

• Ingrid Andress (27:35): "No, it's definitely not Gary, Greg."
• Nick Viall (29:14): "I hadn't liked Dorit until this season."

Insights:
The lively speculation showcases the show's intricate storytelling and character dynamics. The hosts appreciate the layers of human behavior portrayed, drawing parallels to reality TV's unpredictable nature.

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6. Denise Richards Premiere and Public Perception

Discussion Overview:
Nick and the team review Denise Richards' premiere of "Wild Things," praising her down-to-earth persona despite her celebrity status. They contrast her authenticity with the often superficial portrayal of housewives in reality TV.

Notable Quotes:

• Nick Viall (46:04): "She is everyone so honest. And so, I mean, like, no disrespect to most of the housewives..."
• Caroline (46:39): "Like, you didn't do any."

Insights:
Denise Richards is commended for maintaining genuine interactions and a relatable image, which stands out in the often exaggerated world of reality television. The hosts celebrate her ability to balance glamour with authenticity.

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7. Interview with Ingrid Andress

Interview Overview:
Ingrid Andress joins the podcast to discuss her journey, including her troubled national anthem performance and subsequent rehabilitation. She opens up about her struggles with substance abuse, the overwhelming public scrutiny, and her path to recovery.

Key Topics:

• Substance Abuse and Rehab:
  Ingrid shares her experience of recognizing her dependency and seeking help, emphasizing the importance of mental health and self-awareness.

• Public Backlash and Social Media:
  She discusses the harsh criticism she received online and how it influenced her decision to detox from social media temporarily.

• Support from Fellow Artists:
  Ingrid highlights the solidarity she found among female country artists, providing her with much-needed support during her difficult times.

• Comeback and New Music:
  Ingrid talks about her new song "Footprints," symbolizing her return and resilience after overcoming personal challenges.

Notable Quotes:

• Ingrid Andress (52:12): "I just love to see her rising and coming back and gist of that situation."
• Zoe (67:01): "It was a bit of both because I'm very. I am a competitive person."

Insights:
Ingrid's candid discussion sheds light on the pressures of fame and the stigmas associated with public failures. Her resilience and the support from her peers illustrate the strength found in community and openness about personal struggles.

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8. Interview with Grant Ellis (The Bachelor)

Interview Overview:
Grant Ellis returns to The Viall Files to provide updates on his life post-The Bachelor. He reflects on his experiences during the show, his personal growth, and his interactions with the final two finalists, Jules and Latia.

Key Topics:

• Post-Show Reflections:
  Grant discusses how the experience was therapeutic, helping him reconnect with his emotions and father, emphasizing the importance of vulnerability.

• Relationship Decisions:
  He elaborates on his connections with the final two contestants, Jules and Latia, and the challenges he faced in making his final choice.

• Future Projects:
  Grant shares his creative ideas for a new matchmaking show concept, showcasing his entrepreneurial spirit.

• Handling Public Relations:
  He addresses past critiques and how he plans to handle future relationships with his runner-up, maintaining respect and accountability.

Notable Quotes:

• Grant Ellis (107:08): "I think the process works if you go in there and you're ready."
• Nick Viall (111:31): "I am the foremost authority on who is a good bachelor and who is not a good bachelor."

Insights:
Grant's introspection reveals the complexities of reality TV relationships and the personal growth that can stem from such high-pressure environments. His plans for future projects indicate a desire to continue influencing the reality TV landscape positively.

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9. Upcoming Segments and Teasers

The episode concludes with teasers for future content:

• Going Deeper Episode: Featuring a finalist from Traders.
• Reality Recaps: Upcoming discussions with guests like Taylor and Green, and Carolyn from Traders.
• Promotions: Brief mentions of sponsors like Article, Quince, Mint Mobile, Jolie, and Osborne Homes.

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Conclusion

Episode E895 of The Viall Files offers a rich tapestry of discussions ranging from personal relationship dilemmas to celebrity controversies and in-depth interviews with prominent figures like Ingrid Andress and Grant Ellis. The hosts blend humor with insightful commentary, providing listeners with both entertainment and meaningful takeaways.

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Highlighted Quotes:

• Natalie Joy (02:39): "This is why people struggle to learn English. And I understand clearly this is a great debate."
• Grant Ellis (11:01): "Names are fair game. You don't get dibs on any type of middle name."
• Ingrid Andress (52:12): "I just love to see her rising and coming back and gist of that situation."

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Useful Links & Resources:

• Article Promotion: article.comvill
• Quince Promotion: quincemusic.comviall
• Mint Mobile Offer: mintmobile.comvill
• Jolie Promotion: jolieskinco.comviall
• Osborne Homes: osbornhomes.com

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Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from The Viall Files as Nick Viall and his team continue to explore the intersections of dating, relationships, pop culture, and reality television.

Transcript

[Nick]

The BAUs is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing a budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try that progressive.com, progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Prices and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states with T Mobile. No Trendspotter has to deal with Trendspotty service because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network switch. Now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid cart. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service report in 90 days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card is no cash access and expires in six months. You're crazy. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap edition. I am your host, Nick. And is it next Monday or is it this Monday? When talking about next week.

[Natalie]

It's next Monday.

[Caroline]

Yeah, you're talking about next week.

[Grant Ellis]

So next Monday, March 10th. So you're saying March 10th.

[Caroline]

This coming Monday is coming this upcoming.

[Ingrid Andress]

This next Monday.

[Natalie]

It's the next Monday that's coming up. So it be the next next Monday.

[Grant Ellis]

That Monday is coming.

[Nick]

But at what point in the week, like on Saturday. Are you saying next Monday?

[Natalie]

No, you're saying Monday.

[Nick]

Monday, Monday. So at what point do you need a next or a.

[Natalie]

Because we're in this week.

[Nick]

This, like Saturday is this week.

[Caroline]

Yeah, but we're in like the, like the middle of the week.

[Nick]

What's the.

[Ingrid Andress]

What's the next week? It's not this current week. So it would be next Monday. But it also could be this Monday because it's this coming Monday.

[Zoe]

So really, any.

[Nick]

But at what point are you.

[Ingrid Andress]

I like to pick and choose.

[Nick]

Like if I just said today, today is Wednesday.

[Natalie]

If I told you a story about something that happened on Wednesday. On Monday. On Wednesday. I would say this past Monday. This Monday I went to.

[Nick]

You said which one? This past or this. Which one?

[Natalie]

This Monday.

[Grant Ellis]

Wrong.

[Nick]

This Monday implies the next Monday.

[Caroline]

I have to read y'all a DM that I got.

[Grant Ellis]

Was it on your Instagram story?

[Caroline]

When was it?

[Zoe]

Was it this Monday or last Monday?

[Nick]

Yeah. When did you. Yeah. Was it. Was it Tuesday? Was it last Tuesday? Was it yesterday?

[Caroline]

It was yesterday.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And on Thursday, will it be okay? It'll be past Tuesday. Okay, shut up.

[Ingrid Andress]

This is why people struggle to learn English. And I understand clearly this is a great debate.

[Caroline]

So I posted a mirror picture of my outfit. Very boring, very basic, very typical, like throw it on the story type of post. And I received a DM from this woman and she says, is it my.

[Nick]

This might be one of my faves. Natalie from time to time gets an occasional DM from a fan. This one might be one of my faves.

[Caroline]

Sorry I have to unfollow you. The fact that you post only things about yourself is not for me. Oh, I know a lot of your followers want to know what's going on in your life. I don't care. However, I do care. What you indoors, endorse endorsement and D o o r s indoors. Are the doors in the room with us? I'm not sure. And your beliefs just a little too much self centered post for me. Happy life to you.

[Natalie]

Oh, she wished you a happy life.

[Caroline]

And then she did unfollow.

[Nick]

It was, you know, she wished her well.

[Zoe]

What are you supposed to post on your Instagram?

[Ingrid Andress]

What do you typically. Indoors.

[Caroline]

I don't feel like I. She cares about what?

[Zoe]

Like the shirt.

[Caroline]

I indoors. And like pants. I indoors. But if it's me, she's not interested O.

[Ingrid Andress]

She doesn't care about who's in the pants.

[Caroline]

No, can't.

[Natalie]

Did you not tag your outfit?

[Caroline]

Is that why I did it now?

[Natalie]

You're not doing this for the greater good.

[Ingrid Andress]

How dare you?

[Nick]

As someone who's a notoriously bad speller, I know the state of mind that she was in when she sent that. And it was a rush, it was a panic, it was a bit of a rage.

[Caroline]

It was like, I got to get. I got to tell her I'm unfollowing her immediately. Immediately.

[Nick]

She did not have time to think it through or proofread. It was like in a. Like she's. She really needed to get it out.

[Caroline]

No, she sent indoors with confidence.

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah, yeah, we've all. I mean, we have not all been there of like randomly DMing someone we don't know to tell them we're unfollowing them. But we have all been on the other side of a. Like, I did have to unsend like three different things from our group chat yesterday because I kept like mislinking and misspelling things.

[Caroline]

You know, I mean, I guess I just feel like if you're going to send someone kind of like not a nice message being like, hey, what you post isn't for me. I'm out of here. Maybe, like, spell things right.

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

I don't know. You're like, if you're going to hate and Technicolor.

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah. Get the. Get the specs correct.

[Caroline]

Exactly.

[Natalie]

I just love the need to tell you as to why versus just doing.

[Caroline]

I know. One of my favorite quotes is like, this is an airport. You don't need to announce your departure, do you?

[Nick]

Indoors nipple cream.

[Caroline]

I do, actually. Yeah, I do. Kylie Jenner and Carrie Coon are agreeing that you should be using nipple cream on your lips.

[Nick]

What does a nipple cream do?

[Caroline]

Yes, nipple cream is like, when.

[Nick]

Yes.

[Caroline]

Nipple cream is what you use when you're breastfeeding because they're, like, cracked and hurting and burning and.

[Nick]

Like, my lips.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Some would say like your lips.

[Zoe]

So.

[Caroline]

So they're.

[Zoe]

You understand the pain.

[Caroline]

Nipple cream on. You don't have to put burning chapstick on if your lips are chapped. They're not burning.

[Nick]

Sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I don't give people any ideas. Anyways, we have a great episode for you today.

[Caroline]

Your current ideas, what ideas would they get from that? Like, you have herpes or something?

[Nick]

Like, I don't know what else would cause a deep burn in your lips, but.

[Caroline]

Well, when they're chopped, they do burn.

[Zoe]

Sunburn.

[Grant Ellis]

Hot sauce.

[Caroline]

They're red and burning.

[Nick]

Hot. Yes, Hot sauce. Hot sauce.

[Ingrid Andress]

You just went on an episode of Hot Ones.

[Zoe]

Pineapples.

[Ingrid Andress]

Going through it. You need a little nipple cream.

[Nick]

Wait, pineapples make your lip burn? I mean, I guess if you have a crack in your lips, for sure.

[Ingrid Andress]

Citric acid.

[Grant Ellis]

You bit your lip accidentally.

[Nick]

Well, we have a very fantastic episode for you. Your current bachelor, Grant Ellis, returns to the show to give us an update on his life, his journey in love, and everything that's going on with the Bachelor. So that should be exciting to hear from Grant. Also, we have a very special interview before Grant shows up. Ingrid Andress is with us. You probably know her from her amazing music and songwriting, but also, you may have heard of her, you know, national anthem experience during the MLB All Star Game that did not go her way. She famously now was inebriated and under the influence, and it was a, you know, by her own admission, a terrible performance. And she checked into rehab after that to try to fix whatever problem she had. But she is with us talking about that experience for the very first time. Very excited to talk to Ingrid, and that will be coming up shortly. Also, don't forget that we have a very special Going deeper tomorrow with one of your finalists from this season's Traders finale. It's going to be a good one. Very excited for you to hear from this guest. We will be posting the juicy sizzle as the finale of Traders ends tonight. It's going to be wild, wacky and fun. Do not miss it. That is tomorrow. Set your calendars, set your alarms, be with us tomorrow. It is a great episode. Are you kidding me? I'm losing my mind.

[Caroline]

Would you be pissed if you told your best friend, like, the name for our next baby and then they used it?

[Nick]

Livid.

[Caroline]

You would be livid.

[Nick]

Especially our boy name.

[Caroline]

That's rocks. No, I would definitely be a little upset, but I think also it's like, we'll just have two of the same names. Like, who cares?

[Nick]

Like, I didn't. Your best friend, a friend, a co worker, anyone. And they were like, oh, that's cool. And then you found out that they stole it. You have to assume that that baby comes first. Right. So you wouldn't. This would be a pregnant friend or a friend that has a spouse that's pregnant or something. So you're clearly telling them in confidence, are you not? Like, and you're telling them with the assumption that they're not going to use it because they're pregnant. You're like, do you have a baby name? And you're like, oh, my God, yes. And you're like, oh, my God. And they're like. And then you find out they take it. That's a virus.

[Caroline]

Would you cut them off?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

You would no longer be friends with them.

[Nick]

It would change the relationship.

[Caroline]

This is stemming from a mom says her best friend stole her baby name and she wants to know if she should cut her off. She said the woman was getting her hair done by her best friend, who's her stylist, and they were discussing her baby name pics. As the friend was struggling to find a name, the woman brought up that her pick was Evelyn. May. Fast forward to the friend giving birth. And the friend took Evelyn and also.

[Nick]

May see even middle.

[Zoe]

So May.

[Ingrid Andress]

The hyphen is what really gets me.

[Caroline]

I don't know if it's hyphen. I think it is first, middle.

[Ingrid Andress]

First, middle.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Ingrid Andress]

Either way, that's not just one.

[Caroline]

That is.

[Ingrid Andress]

That is.

[Caroline]

That's two.

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah, that's.

[Nick]

Yeah. Because our boy name, we got the first and the second.

[Caroline]

Oh, first and middle, whatever. But it's like, I have always loved the name Scarlet and the name Charlotte. I loved the name Scarlet when I was like 10 years old. I shouldn't have been naming kids. And then my sister had a baby named Scarlet. And then my cousin had a baby named Charlotte. And I was like, oh my God, people, seriously. And my sister was like, listen, name your kid Scarlet. Name your completely different. Do you think the men should get. I'm not asking you. Do you think the men should get as much say in the baby's name because they get last name.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And you carry and birth and do everything for the baby. You breastfeed. You go through postpartum. Do you think your names trump dad's names?

[Natalie]

I think so. It just depends. I think you obviously have to be on the same page, but like, if you happen to walk out and the nurse comes in with the birth certificate and I gave them the name that I like the best, what are we going to do about it? You weren't there.

[Caroline]

You weren't there.

[Nick]

You were toxic.

[Natalie]

Whatever. I'm also like, is it, is it kind of your fault for talking to a pregnant person about your number one baby name? Like, that's kind of like a kiss of death.

[Ingrid Andress]

It's your best friend. That's a circle of trust.

[Caroline]

I also said you can't tell anyone or like, promise you can't use it.

[Natalie]

Or are we workshopping?

[Ingrid Andress]

Or like, did you ask her to.

[Nick]

Sign an NDA if you went to a friend's house or something? I don't know. And you, I don't know, had a envelope full of cash and you left it there and for some reason, I don't know. And they. And you said, can you watch this? Or whatever. And then instead they went to the casino and spent it. I mean, I guess you can blame that. You can be like, oh, well, I guess I shouldn't have left out envelope of cash. They spent it. But like, that would probably change the relationship, would it not? Would you like maybe think of them differently?

[Caroline]

Which they would definitely be like a thief for sure.

[Nick]

And this person, Evelyn May, her mom is a thief. She stole a name.

[Grant Ellis]

Thief of joy.

[Ingrid Andress]

Be one thing if you just took the middle name, but the first or maybe just the first name, like Evelyn, common name, whatever. You could, like, you could scoot your way around it. But first and middle is pretty male.

[Nick]

Names are fair game. You don't get dibs on any type of middle name. I think only took May if she was like Mary Mae or Eve May, no fucking problem. But Evelyn May, she took the whole thing.

[Grant Ellis]

This is why you keep the names in the notes app.

[Natalie]

That's what I'm saying.

[Grant Ellis]

Don't let them leave theirs.

[Caroline]

Exactly.

[Nick]

No, I see. I think you should be able to share it with the understanding that, like, so especially if you ask. If you ask, oh, what are you thinking about for names? Oh, do you have you name any names picked out? You're being nosy. By all means, be nosy. But that is you basically saying, you can trust me. There's an implication there that, like, hey, listen, just want to. I'm just asking. I'm being friendly. But if you didn't take that name and give it away, tell other friends. Same thing. If, If I tell you the baby name and then I find out your other pregnant friend that I'm not even friends with stole that name. Absolutely canceled.

[Grant Ellis]

Well, that's the thing. If it's not your best friend, it's the person eavesdropping your conversation right next to you.

[Ingrid Andress]

But you don't know them.

[Zoe]

You don't know them.

[Nick]

That's completely.

[Ingrid Andress]

Babies aren't going to interact and have to, like, fight because they have the.

[Grant Ellis]

Same name, but they might be in kindergarten together and now they're going to fight over having the same name.

[Nick]

It's really, it's. It's not even about the same name. Because I do think, like, when we, when river was born, like, when we came up with the name, we thought like, oh, we really like this name. And it felt a little unique and yada, yada, yada. And then, like, she was born and then realized that, like, it's the most popular name of the year.

[Caroline]

It's like when you start, like, hooking up with a guy who drives, like, a white truck, and then you start seeing a white truck everywhere, you know, and you're like, oh, my God, there he is.

[Zoe]

There he is.

[Caroline]

Oh, my God, he's at Walmart. Oh, my God, he's at McDonald's. And then it's just a white truck. And it's like, yeah, we saw. We saw river everywhere.

[Nick]

I am kind of glad, though, because, like, when she goes to school, it gives you character to, like, have to share name. It's just like, it's the principle of your friend taking the both names.

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah, that actually happened in an episode of Sex in the City. Samantha. Absolutely. Read someone to filth because someone took Charlotte's baby's name.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah, I remember that well. Gabby Wendy married Robbie Hoffman.

[Zoe]

How exciting.

[Caroline]

They did it in a $799 Las Vegas wedding. Looked like it was just the two of them. And I guess a priest and I guess a photographer.

[Ingrid Andress]

That's how you do it a priest.

[Caroline]

Maybe Elvis. I don't know.

[Nick]

I didn't see guessing a priest didn't marry them.

[Caroline]

But in Vegas you don't think it'd be someone like dressed up like a priest?

[Nick]

When you say priest, I think Catholic priest. Like if you say like presider.

[Caroline]

Why would I say presider?

[Nick]

Because that's what it is. I don't know, like preside over the wedding. Isn't it like officiant?

[Caroline]

Oh, officient.

[Nick]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ingrid Andress]

I just love it when a hot couple gets married. I'm really happy for them.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

That's $799. I feel like with Gabby looking the way she did a K a stunning and an amazing dress. I feel like I looked for that dress for my welcome party. So glad she found it. Is very on brand for Gabby.

[Zoe]

Wendy.

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

She like looks so stunning and be like it was $799.

[Natalie]

Yes.

[Zoe]

Natalie. Similar to the baby name stealing. What would you do if somebody stole your dress? Like if you showed your friend and you were like, this is my dress. And then all of a sudden they have the dress.

[Nick]

Well, first of all, Nally would only get her dress from the great ladies at Sync.

[Zoe]

Very true.

[Nick]

And they are very original, very custom, very hard to replicate.

[Caroline]

That's not true. They have dresses that. They're not all custom. You can make a custom if you want to, like, pay for it. But they have a lot of dresses that like everyone else wears. And I remember I definitely. I would get like, mad at them. Like play mad. But also like if you don't lock it the fuck up. Because they would be like posting my dress on their Instagram, being like, oh, the Gail is like so beautiful and this and that. And I would be like, stop it. You're showing people my dress. And it was like I was the only one who knew that it was my dress. But I definitely would get mad at them for sharing it, so. But I would be just as pissed.

[Nick]

I think I did not realize that Adrien Brody's girl. Is it girlfriend? Wife. Still don't know.

[Grant Ellis]

Girlfriend.

[Nick]

Girl. It's gotta be Girlfriend. Girlfriend.

[Zoe]

Now it's confirmed.

[Grant Ellis]

Girlfriend.

[Zoe]

They are not married.

[Nick]

Not married because her ex husband was Harvey Weinstein.

[Caroline]

Are they even still officially exes? Has he signed divorce papers in prison?

[Ingrid Andress]

I don't know, but I think so.

[Nick]

The kids he referenced on his speech are Harvey Weinstein.

[Ingrid Andress]

The kids didn't do nothing. I just want. I just feel like we should make that clear.

[Nick]

Or. Or her.

[Natalie]

Or her from jail.

[Ingrid Andress]

They were apparently it's just like Jim Brody and his girlfriend did allegedly get together when she was still married to Harvey Weinstein. But I don't imagine she was happy.

[Natalie]

And I don't feel bad for Harvey Weinstein.

[Zoe]

No, me neither.

[Caroline]

I don't either.

[Nick]

No, see, I don't think Harvey's. No.

[Zoe]

The way that this headline starts is disgraced film mogul and convicted rapist Harvey Weinstein reacts to Adrien Brody mentioning his children with ex wife.

[Ingrid Andress]

I'm hope. I hope.

[Caroline]

But he did.

[Ingrid Andress]

Brings him great distress.

[Caroline]

But he did have a response to Adrien Brody's Oscar speech in mentioning his children.

[Nick]

What do you say?

[Zoe]

So Weinstein's rep told the Post on Monday, harvey's happy for Georgina and grateful that his kids are being loved and cared for as they deserve to be.

[Caroline]

He didn't say that.

[Nick]

He definitely did not say that.

[Caroline]

His publicist said that. He said, fuck that and fudge them. Imagine.

[Ingrid Andress]

What's a worse job than. Okay, okay, Harvey Weinstein's publicist. What is a worse job than that?

[Nick]

No one's making them do it.

[Caroline]

That's true.

[Nick]

Plenty of worse jobs.

[Caroline]

They could quit.

[Nick]

They could quit.

[Caroline]

They could quit.

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah.

[Nick]

They don't have to do it. No one's making them do it. And, like, I don't know. Keeps them busy. Maybe they find it fun.

[Ingrid Andress]

You're getting paid.

[Nick]

How do I spin this?

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Did you see Millie Bobby Brown Shut the.

[Nick]

I'm really proud of her.

[Caroline]

Millie. Did you see Millie Bobby Brown shut all of these journalists up.

[Nick]

She named names.

[Caroline]

And Matt Lucas, we think he's in a position to talk about anyone's appearance. Have you seen this man?

[Ingrid Andress]

Well, what he was saying in his apology is that he didn't mean for. He posted a quote of, like, a character from a sketch that he did that she kind of looked like. And then he didn't mean it. He said he didn't mean it as.

[Caroline]

A joke or he didn't mean it.

[Ingrid Andress]

As, like, an insult to her appearance.

[Nick]

What's going on here?

[Caroline]

This is the man who she. One of the. One of the men she called out Millie Bobby Brown for commenting about her appearance.

[Nick]

This is. Oh, my God.

[Natalie]

People are saying that Millie Bobby Brown, since she's dyed her hair blonde and whatnot, that she's got, that she's aged herself and is, like, having this mommy makeover even though she's, what, 23, 25?

[Grant Ellis]

It's 21.

[Zoe]

It's.

[Caroline]

Honestly, the. The comments she's been getting are so bad. They're like, really, really mean comments. And it's crazy because I saw these two. It was, like, back to back. So it was Millie Bobby Brown, and then it was Pamela Anderson, who's, like, gone very natural. She, like, doesn't wear makeup on the red carpet anymore into Pamela Anderson. They're all saying, like, oh, my God, like, you've got to put on makeup. Like, this is. You, like, are aging yourself. You look so old.

[Zoe]

This is this.

[Caroline]

Like, it's ugly. Millie Bobby Brown. It's like she's doing too much. She looks too old. You know, just, like, the hypocrisy of that. But Millie Bobby Brown posted a Instagram video saying she wanted to take a moment to address something that I think is bigger than just me, something that affects every young woman who grows up under public scrutiny. I started in this industry when I was 10 years old. I grew up in front of the world, and for some reason, people can't seem to grow with me. The fact that adult writers are spending their time dissecting my face, my body, my. My choices, it's disturbing. Disillusioned people can't handle seeing a girl become a woman on her terms, not theirs. I refuse to apologize for growing up. I refuse to make myself smaller to fit the unrealistic expectations of people who can't handle seeing a girl become a woman. And then she basically calls out every. Not every, but a few.

[Zoe]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Read the headlines that they wrote. And then the person who wrote it.

[Natalie]

Was good, and she was disgusted because it was a majority of them were women writing these articles with disgusting titles.

[Ingrid Andress]

It's gross.

[Natalie]

It also reminds me kind of a Britney Spears growing up, where it was just like, the second that it was like a midriff or whatever. She's 16. She's 18. She's 22. It's like, it does not matter how old she got. Everyone was criticizing, you're too sexy. You're too this. And it's like, why can't anybody. Like, why can't a woman that you've seen since she was a child, why is everyone else allowed to grow up, but they're not.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And, like, why are we allowed to comment on, like, how we think that they should be presenting themselves to the world? You're following it so, like, I mean, be a consumer.

[Nick]

Just remember, fan is short for fanatic.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And at the end of the day, fans, like, the most hardcore fans, feel sometimes a sense of entitlement, of, like, I've supported you and therefore you owe me.

[Natalie]

Like, I'm allowed to stunt your growth as a person. Like, that's wild.

[Nick]

I don't think there's a lot of thought, you know, there's not an objective thought. Mrs. Indoors, you know, like, I don't think she's sitting there thinking, does this make sense? Should I be doing this? He just decided that like she has something to say, she wanted to say it and Natalie was her subject. And it's like, but it is crazy.

[Caroline]

That Matt Lucas's response is. I would not have posted it if I had thought it would have upset you. But I realize it has and for that I apologize. It's like, really? You wouldn't have posted that if you thought it would upset her. You didn't think like a mean comment about her body and about her would upset her?

[Nick]

Yeah. You kind of just have to own it, right?

[Caroline]

I mean like I, I, I up. I thought it was funny. Definitely not funny. My bad. I apologize.

[Grant Ellis]

He also said for that I apologize. Which means he's not apologizing for like what he did. He's apologizing for her being upset with what he did.

[Nick]

It's like, you know, like we would give commentary on the, on the show. I am assuming at times we say things that offend people or rub people the wrong way. But like to that end we do have to like own it. It's like it's one thing to say it and be like, oh my God, like I didn't realize that would hurt your feelings or upset you. It's like sometimes you have to say I'm sorry that upset you. That necessarily wasn't my intention. But you kind of have to own it in a way. Like this guy. It's just like own that you said it and apologize for hurting her. But like, yeah, it's, I mean, same with your chest. It is wild like that he thinks he's in a position. I mean that's the thing. It's just like, just comment on someone's look.

[Caroline]

No look, it's crazy.

[Nick]

And like not look in the mirror.

[Caroline]

Is to think that you're in a position to come after a 21 year old woman's looks. And it's him is someone who has.

[Nick]

Like been in the limelight since they were 10. You know, I mean, crazy. Can only imagine what the like internal mental struggle might be for Millie Bobby Brown to like decide what she wants her look to be you, you know, in the intern, you know, like because she's have, has all these voices of God. I mean this is, this is probably a one like 1% of all the trash that has been written about her comments. Like these are, these are, these are headlines like, like I mean imagine what her DMS look like or comments on. On Instagram. It's atrocious.

[Grant Ellis]

I'm sure people love to troll Millie Bobby Brown too. Yeah, ever since she was little, when.

[Ingrid Andress]

She was a kid.

[Grant Ellis]

Like even like just from my perspective as a queer person, like people love to throw around like, oh, Millie Bobby Brown is homophobic. She hit me with her car. And it's like she did none of that.

[Ingrid Andress]

She did none.

[Grant Ellis]

People just love to like it just specifically.

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah, it just like became a joke.

[Grant Ellis]

Who knows does the Internet loves to troll her. And that's what's unfortunate for her.

[Ingrid Andress]

It was just like someone was like joking and lying one time and then like on the Internet and then it caught on and became like a thing and it's just. Yeah, you, you would think that like with how many child stars have come and gone and like experienced so much trauma and had their lives ruined that people would be a bit more careful nowadays, but it's just the way the.

[Nick]

World are these British headlines because they are mixed. They are notoriously cruel. Yeah, it's the humor or lack thereof.

[Ingrid Andress]

Humor with a you.

[Nick]

Monica Garcia is pregnant. Congratulations Monica. She posted a very beautiful little spread with People magazine celebrating her pregnancy. Is this the same guy that she was talking about when she was with us and talked about her then pregnancy which sadly she, she lost that pregnancy. And so congratulations to her and her rainbow baby. I learned what that was sadly when Natalie and I experienced miscarriage. But very beautiful that Monica and her partner are now expecting a child. So congratulations to her. We. We gotta. I DM'd her. I haven't heard back from her. I gotta find her number.

[Grant Ellis]

She's busy responding to all the comments. She's really supportive to her fan base. I love it.

[Nick]

Oh, did you respond to my comment?

[Grant Ellis]

Did you comment?

[Nick]

I did I say congratulations?

[Grant Ellis]

Oh yeah.

[Nick]

Maybe you need a comment should comment like congratulations. Check your dm. One of those. Yeah.

[Ingrid Andress]

Jax Taylor.

[Nick]

Jax Taylor is in the news again. And what is not shocking news, telling Page Six that he has had a cocaine addiction. Cocaine.

[Caroline]

Cocaine.

[Nick]

Cocaine for what, 10 years?

[Grant Ellis]

He said, he said on and off since I was 23 and I'm 45.

[Caroline]

I mean I just great of him that he's able to come out and admit that. I'm sure that was very hard for him to do. I feel for Britney. I feel like she is finally able to kind of like speak more honestly about their relationship. I'm sure she was like Protecting this for him. So she actually did come out and say, I'm glad that he finally admitted to what was really going on. For the first time, I can speak openly about the extent of trauma he's instilled on our family. Family. Over the years, I've tried desperately to help him, without success. I pray that one day he completely knocks this addiction, but I'm skeptical. His behaviors are still alarming and his treatment plan seems to be the bare minimum. I'm trying to navigate this as best as I can for my son and I, but every day is still a challenge and very difficult. Jax has caused an enormous amount of damage, and I have very little trust in him at this point. My only hope is that one day he will be a better person for his son.

[Nick]

I mean, he sounds like a monster and also like it just the time. When do we know when the Valley comes out?

[Grant Ellis]

Not announced yet.

[Natalie]

It's not announced. But in spring.

[Nick]

Yes.

[Ingrid Andress]

Quote, soon. End quote.

[Nick]

It just always feels like self promotion.

[Grant Ellis]

You know who, Jacks.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Ingrid Andress]

I mean, happy for him that he is at a point in his life where he can get sober. I hope it continues.

[Caroline]

You know, I mean, he's admitting in this kind of conversation with Page Six, he's saying that, like, he lost it and went crazy in the car with his son Cruz in the backseat, which is why he went back to rehab. That's when he said, shit, I have a problem. It's still there. And that's after seeing a man's name on Britney's phone that, like, he had his son in his car and lost it and went crazy in the car.

[Natalie]

I will say that in Vanderpump Rules, you can see, like, there, I think it was Jax's wedding, but there's, like, a dish on, like, a counter that, like, while they're getting ready for the wedding, that it's just kind of like, if you see. You saw it must have been missed in the editing. But, like, yeah, it's just like, it's. It's number one guy in the group.

[Ingrid Andress]

Infamous pasta situation.

[Nick]

The amount of people who put Jax Taylor on some sort of pedestal during Scandival just because they hated Tom Sandoval so much. And, like, for a brief moment, everyone was, like, praising Jax because he decided to ride the hate Tom Sandoval train. That always really just irritated me because it was all. And it was just people just, like, looking the other way because it was, like, in vogue to. To hate on Tom. But, like, why they forgot about all of Jackson past transgressions clearly, he had never changed. There was no evidence that he made any attempt at any type of changes in his life. And now we are reminded of that.

[Natalie]

Well, I was like, I don't know if you remember, but during that period of time, Jax obviously wasn't on television. So Jax was crusading, starting his podcast, talking about, like, fatherhood and, like, how he's such a changed man and marriage. So it was like he was very much promoting himself as a family man while Tom Sandoval. So he felt like he was the authority to speak on it because he knows firsthand who Tom Sandoval was. He was the one that was also furthering that narrative.

[Caroline]

But then clearly, behind closed doors, was treating his family like. And doing drugs.

[Natalie]

Absolutely.

[Nick]

He has only shown us that he's a terrible person. There's never been a redeeming moment since he's been on, since he's been in public. I mean, what is. What are his name? One redeeming moment?

[Grant Ellis]

He checked himself into rehab.

[Nick]

I mean, bare minimum.

[Caroline]

I mean, even Britney is like, this isn't enough. You're doing the bare minimum.

[Nick]

Yeah. Are you guys watching White Lotus?

[Grant Ellis]

Yes, I am.

[Nick]

Yeah. Who did it? Who do you think?

[Ingrid Andress]

Monkeys. I think it's.

[Nick]

Spoiler alert.

[Ingrid Andress]

No, I think it's the monkeys. I think a monkey got a gun, and I think they're trying to kill the monkeys. And I think it's representative of, like, how they're all animals in there.

[Natalie]

Well, off of yours. And I'm, like, thinking that maybe a monkey went crazy in the gunshots that we heard is them trying to kill the monkey.

[Grant Ellis]

Well, and they're leading us to think that the mom is the one that might have been killed. Right. Is one of the people that might have been.

[Nick]

Because, yeah, the mom, the therapist, the masseuse, though, who's there for. For training.

[Grant Ellis]

But it's definitely one of the white guys that had the gun. Yeah, like, it has to be one.

[Zoe]

Of the white guys.

[Natalie]

It's Tanya's ex.

[Nick]

No, it's definitely not.

[Grant Ellis]

I know.

[Nick]

It's definitely not Gary. Greg.

[Natalie]

Greg, Greg.

[Grant Ellis]

Sounds like they all have the same name.

[Nick]

She did think his name was Gary, though. Wasn't it?

[Ingrid Andress]

He, like, changed his name, right? Or was it always Greg?

[Nick]

I think it was always Greg.

[Caroline]

Oh, maybe I just sleep during this episode. So y'all are just ruining for me.

[Ingrid Andress]

I'm an episode behind.

[Grant Ellis]

Actually, I do think we need to do spoiler warning things.

[Caroline]

Oh, we're just.

[Natalie]

We're just speculating.

[Nick]

We haven't talked about Anything. The last episode, we thought we'd do it. We're literally just speculating who might have done it.

[Grant Ellis]

Okay.

[Natalie]

I was like, maybe one of the.

[Caroline]

One of the housewives.

[Natalie]

Or it's like, finally, it's time. I actually hate you.

[Nick]

I don't think it's any of the old white men.

[Grant Ellis]

Oh, no, it's definitely one of them. The creepy one going to Bangkok or the one that has a scam that made him $10 million.

[Nick]

I definitely don't think it's either of them.

[Ingrid Andress]

Walter Goggins is not doing anything wrong. He just wants to.

[Grant Ellis]

Predictable it is. But they're both hiding too much.

[Zoe]

They're all.

[Natalie]

They're all involved in something. Something much, much more insane.

[Nick]

I think they could be the reason. Maybe something escalates, but I don't think they're the one doing the shooting.

[Grant Ellis]

Okay, so then it's either the bodyguard.

[Nick]

Or the manager of the bodyguards are definitely somehow involved. They definitely whip out their guns for sure.

[Natalie]

Wait, no, I think that Greg did change his name because she calls him by the name that she met.

[Nick]

Was it Gary?

[Natalie]

Him?

[Nick]

And.

[Natalie]

And the whole thing is that. That Tanya. Jennifer Coolidge's character was with that man.

[Nick]

I don't remember. That was season one, though.

[Natalie]

Season.

[Ingrid Andress]

Season one. And then he hired people to kill her in season two.

[Grant Ellis]

I never.

[Nick]

Greg's been in every season.

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah, Greg sucks. He's the number one white lotus op.

[Natalie]

Anyways, moving on.

[Caroline]

Well, what I did watch is Beverly Hills Housewives.

[Grant Ellis]

We finally got to see the scene of Kathy walking on the Runway, and.

[Caroline]

It was just as iconic. She needs to be.

[Ingrid Andress]

She's awesome.

[Caroline]

Her limping coming out, I think I broke my neck of the thing.

[Nick]

Sutton. Sutton.

[Caroline]

Do you want to have dorit?

[Nick]

And do you want to have dorit?

[Caroline]

You know, as nervous as Sutton was, you know, she was like, get the fuck away from me. Like, no.

[Natalie]

But also, Kathy making amazing television. Like, oh, you're gonna. Do you want Dorit, the person you hate the most, to narrate and star in your fashion show? Oh, my God, no. Go find your seat, Kathy.

[Ingrid Andress]

Also, when they're like, her and Kyle are getting ma mammograms, and they're talking about Mo, and she's like, you know, there's way we could find this out so much.

[Caroline]

And Kyle's like, no, no. She's like, who has bigger boobs?

[Nick]

Can you remind me, Sierra, because you've been watching this longer than I have. Like, where did the, like, kind of vitriol and hate from Garcelle? And Sutton start towards Dorit. Like, when they had this lunch, right? And it seemed like. Or dinner or whatever. And it seemed like a very fairly civil lunch between Garcelle and Dorit. And then at the end, Garcelle's like, well, I'm still going to keep one eye open. And it was like, one eye open. Like, what is Dorit done that makes, like, Sutton, Garcelle act like Dorit is, like, untrustworthy or like she's up to no good or like, she's. I mean, yeah, like, she's been a little petty these past couple episodes and. And maybe kind of instigated fights with Sutton. But, like, you know, this all stems from how, again, how Sutton and Garcelle have constantly treated Doritos.

[Natalie]

I mean, there's a part. There's a point in time where Sutton and Garcelle both were the new person. And to Justin's point a couple weeks ago, that it was like Dorit was a part of the. The mean girls.

[Grant Ellis]

The Fox 4.

[Natalie]

The Fox 4. Like, Lisa Rinna ruining lives. Like, she aided in that. So it's like she would always be making comments and things to where it's like, people. Dorit's smarter than people give her credit for. And that's kind of what Sutton says. It's very like, you know what you're saying when you say it. And Dorit's like, I didn't realize that that made you feel this way or whatever it is. And it's like, so many times you can take hit after hit and be like, you didn't. Like, you didn't realize. So they're just defensive against her because she was a bully.

[Nick]

She was.

[Natalie]

Yeah. She was a part of the group of the girls that were bullies. And now that, like.

[Nick]

But why doesn't Kyle get that same treatment?

[Natalie]

Because Kyle's the star of the show. This is the first season I've ever seen where Kyle even kind of had a bad edit in the beginning of the season where I'm like. I was like, oh, my God. I think Bravo turned on her because she did that interview with Mauricio show because, like, you've never seen a bad edit or, like, somebody bringing up Mauricio's cheating allegations that would have been cut from a season. And then we had it just, like an abrupt, well, your husband has some infidelity rumors. And she was clearly caught off guard being like, what are you talking about? And they would usually edit that out, but they kept it in. So that's where I'm like, kyle Kyle's getting hers too. But it's just I. I understand Garcelle and Sutton not being able to fully trust Dorit. Does that make sense?

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, I would say season nine or ten. I mean, I think Dorit's, like, made her bed and now she's sleeping in it.

[Natalie]

Yeah. And I mean, I think with what's going on in Dorit's life, it's like now she's, you know, forming her own personality and her independence outside of PK and the mean girls, and she's standing on her own, which is really great to see. We've just never really seen an authentic Dorit. I haven't liked Dorit until this season.

[Grant Ellis]

She's also very long winded. And I think that's what Garcelle and Sutton always return to is like, every time they try to have a conversation, she dances around the point of it and never actually has the conversation. Okay, so that's where she says, like, let them.

[Nick]

That makes sense. It's just more like, well, yeah, like, I get that she was part of this, like, fox group or whatever, but so is Kyle.

[Caroline]

I will say nothing brings anyone closer than shit talking. And her and Garcelle being able to talk about Mauricio and this woman, they were like, we have problems. I don't even remember because let's talk about. She's at a Morgan Wade concert.

[Ingrid Andress]

Also, Garcelle is the one that is going to bring up the Morgan Wade rumors. Everyone else kind of, like, tries not to, but Garcelle's like, well, let's not forget.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Ingrid Andress]

And I really appreciate that.

[Nick]

I say this every week, but, like, we just get divorced or not get divorced. But, like, the fact that they keep pretending that there might be some reconciliation. I love the way Kathy calls him Maurice.

[Zoe]

Maurice?

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, a thousand percent.

[Nick]

I just, like, I don't.

[Ingrid Andress]

And then it's like Kyle taking wife out of her bio. It's like, you guys have been separated.

[Natalie]

He lives in his own condo.

[Nick]

I actually appreciated that scene because I do think is is trite as it might be. And, you know, I know. I think, like, the show made it, like, seem like, why does this have to be such a big decision? But the reality is that, like, people do pay attention to that. It became a headline. Kyle knows it's a headline. Kyle knows the. The super fans pay attention to, like, that. And, you know that those are decisions that, like, you know, I mean, shit. I mean, not like Nelly and I have had to have, like, conversations like that that seem like, who gives a kind of Thing, like, why do we even care? Should I. Should I do this? Should I comment this? Should I write this? Should I caption this? Should I do that? Blah, blah, blah. You know, it was definitely a little bit of a, like, an insider look to, like, you know, actual conversations that, like, Kyle and all these women kind of have to consider and things that, like, affect their lives that might seem trivial, but, like, yeah, people do talk about them. People do pay attention. People do like, you know, going back to the Millie, Bobby Brown. Like, they analyze and break down and speculate and create rumors and yada, yada, yada. Like, sometimes it's. The question is like. Like, you know, like Kyle even said, you know, when talking about this photograph, like, she. She even is speculating the authenticity of this photograph. Like, she doesn't think it's Mo who staged it, but, like, the paparazzi. And, you know, this. I don't. I don't remember the photo, but apparently there's, like, a heel kick. And, like, you can usually know, like, if someone called the paparazzi on themselves, and the. The biggest takeaway is, like, is it a nice picture, or does it look like someone took a picture with. Of you without you realizing?

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, and if it's like, if you are in any type of pose or romantic kind of, if you look pretty good, you might have called the paparazzi on yourself. Right. You know, and if you look like you are stuffing your face with a sandwich, like, you did not. You probably didn't. Or if you have this kind of, like, confused look on your face, you know?

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And she didn't. Young model. So I'm like, I'm not shocked that she could call the paparazzi on that situation. It's.

[Caroline]

It's.

[Natalie]

It's a. It's a plausible situation that could have happened, especially since Sutton was like, I've been to the airport a million times, and Jennifer Anderson was there, and there was no paparazzi.

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

How they all kept comparing him to Brad Pitt.

[Ingrid Andress]

They're like, he's no Brad Pitt. Everyone kept saying, it's very Shania Twain. That don't impress me much.

[Natalie]

It was that generation. It's like, no matter what, Brad Pitt will always be him, and George Clooney.

[Caroline]

Will always be the number one.

[Nick]

Guys, can we go back to. I got a question about White Lotus.

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah, please.

[Zoe]

Spoiler alert.

[Nick]

The three ladies, friends, they hate each other. How common is that in friend groups?

[Natalie]

Oh, my God. It was so funny the first time that I was watching the first episode with Connor and he's. They're. They're talking, being like, oh, my God, you look so good. You look so good. And Connor's like, what the fuck is going on here? And I was like, she's asking about what work she's got done. He's like, how the fuck did you get that? And the next thing that comes out of her mouth is, so who's your doctor? But I was like, yes. It's like, that is unfortunately toxic female friendships. There's a lot of underlying notes covered in niceness.

[Ingrid Andress]

The chills that go up my spine every single time I watch it with my friends. And we're just constantly, like when they all. During every.

[Grant Ellis]

They all talk about each other and then catch each other talking about each other, and they're just like, well, we all do it.

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah, they all hate themselves and each other.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

So, yes, Common. Not for me, but common.

[Nick]

Have you ever experienced that?

[Caroline]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Natalie]

You have to choose not to in your life.

[Nick]

Guys don't do that, but we know. But why do you guys do that? Why do you all do that?

[Grant Ellis]

Guys love to gossip too.

[Nick]

Not like that.

[Caroline]

No, Nick is bad.

[Grant Ellis]

It.

[Caroline]

I'll be like, oh, my God, you're. You. Like, he was just with a friend. And it'll be like, did you like, did you hear, like, what happened? And he'll be like, I don't know. I didn't ask.

[Nick]

Like, we're guys talk. I mean, my.

[Zoe]

So annoying.

[Nick]

My guy friends, we talk to each other's faces, you know, we give each other. We tease, we make fun. We give each other a hard time to each other's faces. We don't do it behind each other's backs. And we definitely don't do it like the way it's portrayed in the show where you have like this group of friends. And then like, as when the group's together and everyone's hanging out, it's all like these pleasantries and, you know, these exchanges. And when the group divides into individual little groups, like, they start talking shit about the person not there. Like, I. I am not familiar with that type of behavior in a group of guy friends. You are.

[Grant Ellis]

I mean, I think everybody gossips. I'm like, we all talk about each other.

[Nick]

Of course. But I'm just saying in a. In a male group dynamic, that behavior. I don't. Is not confident. Common. I'm like, maybe with the gays, is that different?

[Grant Ellis]

I don't know.

[Caroline]

I don't know. I don't know what the gays do.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, I don't know them.

[Nick]

I don't know them.

[Grant Ellis]

I wasn't making a sexuality thing. I was just like, I. Guys like to gossip, too, as much as women do.

[Ingrid Andress]

I've had some of the biggest gossip sessions with my guy friends.

[Nick]

It's not. It's not just about gossip. This is about friends treating each other like. I mean, yeah, sure, I like to gossip as much as the next person, but, like, about my closest friends, about, like, my boys, like, you know.

[Natalie]

Well, the thing is that they're not the closest friends. Even though they're, like, best friends. They all live in different places. So this is the first time that they're coming together, which means, like, FaceTimes and, like, kind of catching up. But, like, this is the first time that they're, like, all together. And I've had bigger groups of friends where it's like, not everybody is as close. Like, you have people that you're closest to and then people that you're, like, kind of forced to be friends with because this person's friends with them. So they're always coming around. But it's like, I don't like them, but I can't. I'm not going to cause an issue with this person because we're all friends. So I'm like. And that's why the whole, like, girlies posting, keeping your circle close and, like, finding three good friends, like, that's why we get to that point. Because you go through so much toxic with women that I'm like, at their age, it's sad that that's still an occurrence. But like, yes, as you grow up and have groups of friends, your circle gets smaller and smaller because of, like, that.

[Caroline]

And it's all. You can tell it's like all underlying jealousy.

[Natalie]

100.

[Caroline]

Which is all. What it is.

[Zoe]

Yeah.

[Ingrid Andress]

They all are jealous of each other for days.

[Caroline]

Different reasons.

[Natalie]

Real good girlfriends are people that are happy for you, that support you, that, like, literally lift you up. Girlfriends like this are the people that are, like, praying for your downfall. Being like, no, you got this girl.

[Zoe]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Yeah. You tell them something that's exciting, and they're like, oh, but what if this happens? Someone hit her car on her way to that meeting.

[Zoe]

Literally.

[Ingrid Andress]

Just like, Mike White is maybe one of the most, like, genius writers. Absolutely. It's the.

[Nick]

Do you think that's why White Lotus is so popular? Because I feel like it's. It's a scripted television show written like a reality TV show. Like, we obviously know that the family in the show has been inspired by basically Southern charm and that, you know, entire cast. But, like, I think that's why a lot of people, like, there's, like. That's, like, the crossover between reality TV and scripted television. And obviously, Mike himself is a reality TV star from Survivor, and he seems to also. I bet he's. I wonder what other shows he watches.

[Ingrid Andress]

I think the thing about Mike White is, like. Like, it's so obvious. He is just deeply, deeply interested in, like, human behavior and how people act and interact with each other, which is what reality TV is.

[Nick]

When did he. I wonder, like, when did they film this?

[Natalie]

This season, this past.

[Nick]

But, like, the. The Trump conversation. Obviously, I'm not trying to get into politics here, but, like, it was brilliant.

[Caroline]

They're fine.

[Nick]

The timing, like. Like, how did he.

[Grant Ellis]

Like.

[Natalie]

But that's why I think people. That's why people do love White Lotus, though, is that he always does incorporate what's really happening in the times and the conversations that we're having. So we are seeing a reflection of ourselves. In the TV show. Show.

[Caroline]

It was very. I had fallen asleep, so I didn't see this, but I did see a clip of it, and it was someone saying, like, this is the most perfectly acted. Like, the facial expressions where she's, like, talking about the. The people in Texas, like, being Republican. She's like, well, they're nice people. And she's like, wait, are you a republic? She's like, no, I'm a David.

[Nick]

I'm an independent.

[Zoe]

Independence.

[Nick]

But David is.

[Ingrid Andress]

It's like the most, like, pitch part. Like, that scene is what's gonna win.

[Natalie]

An Emmy if you're writing 100%.

[Nick]

Yeah, it was awesome. Also premiering last night was Denise in the Wild Things.

[Caroline]

Her wild Things.

[Nick]

Her Wild things. Fun little television show. We watched both episodes. I mean, it's early, so, you know, I think they're getting their feet. We're getting their bearings.

[Grant Ellis]

I love it. It's all the scenes of Beverly's Housewives that I would watch. So I was like, I get a full episode.

[Natalie]

It's like Beverly Hills Housewives. And I used to. I grew up on reality television, but teenage. So it's like the Hills, Laguna Beach, Pretty wild. And I'm like. So seeing this, like, aspect of the two teenage daughters, it's just, like, giving me life.

[Nick]

Like, if. If I was saying to Natalie, I looked. I mean, imagine if we're lucky enough to have a child and. And river. And let's say we have another daughter, you know, and they're relatively close in age. Like, if they grow up and one is an only fans mile. And the other one is like a hardcore like Christian. You know, who is this? Like, I'm with God.

[Caroline]

You know the way she was like, I woke up and God told me to go to the beach today.

[Nick]

And like then you find out she's been religious for six months. Awesome.

[Caroline]

Like since I was 18 and a half.

[Nick]

She.

[Ingrid Andress]

They're so. It's like the perfect. It's the perfect sister dynamic for tv. It feels like watching an old MTV show.

[Caroline]

It's great. So funny though, cuz I remember going through that stage myself of being like super, super Christian. I remember my older sister Caroline, I like told her I was like sitting on the couch reading the Bible and she comes in like, are you serious? And I was like, well, that's why you're going to hel. Like, I definitely had that stage in my life. And it seems like Lola is giving that kind of energy to Sammy right now.

[Ingrid Andress]

The cuts between like her getting, getting ready for the ra being like, we have Narcan.

[Zoe]

This is. And then it's crazy.

[Ingrid Andress]

And then the sister in her prayer group. I'm like this.

[Nick]

Eating the tacos like that you die from shit. Like Narcan, like is Narcan saves you.

[Ingrid Andress]

So if you're doing drugs, if you have protein tip. I don't do drugs. But if you do always have Narcan around or you think somebody might be doing drugs at a party, is it.

[Nick]

Like how you like. Is it like the fentanyl saver?

[Grant Ellis]

It'll bounce them back if they're going to overdose.

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah. So you can like have time to take someone to get help at a hospital.

[Nick]

If your friends are making sure they have to bring that. You're hanging around the wrong people.

[Caroline]

But at least they're thoughtful.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And they're trying to like, let's save their lives.

[Grant Ellis]

In college they give it to everybody just in case. So I think it's a matter of.

[Caroline]

Just like who gives it to everybody.

[Grant Ellis]

Well, I don't think it's a bad thing, but the universities are like, if you need it or like, like if you like want to have it, like they provide it really. Because you're going to parties. Like even if you or your friends are not doing it, if you see someone else.

[Nick]

I definitely won't be the parent giving my Kid condoms at 13.

[Grant Ellis]

Well, yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah. I think we're gonna go with a different approach. I mean like, yes. I mean it won't be like the scare them out of doing things, but like, I don't know. I Feel like maybe a different parenting method can, like, maybe avoid having to, like, make sure your kids condom up, you know, that early, or, like, bringing Narcan.

[Natalie]

I don't know. I feel like there's, like, a way to, like, be like, oh, I'm. I'm a progressive parent. But also scare them, being like, so this is Narcan. This is when somebody overdoses, is about to come to death, which you might be responsible for. So you need to be able to administer this.

[Nick]

Fear is a very, like, powerful tool. Powerful parenting tool.

[Natalie]

Like, yeah, like, that's what I'm saying.

[Zoe]

Where it's like.

[Natalie]

Because I would be thinking, if somebody's showing me what this is, I'd be like, well, I never want that to be used on me, let alone do I want to be responsible to use that on someone else.

[Nick]

And my parents were always, like, like, this. This. It'll kill you. Don't do it. Okay.

[Natalie]

Say less.

[Grant Ellis]

I think it's just like teaching someone CPR in case you're ever in the situation. A lot of people have Narcan in case you're ever in the situation.

[Ingrid Andress]

Like, because it's like, you could be at a party with a bunch. You're not doing drugs, but there are people around you that are, even if you don't know them. If you're at a big party, especially in LA and especially, like, at a rave and the type of places that I'm assuming that Timmy's going to and stuff, and it's just good to know that it's there so somebody can be safe, I guess.

[Nick]

I hate that the kids these days, that they have to worry about stuff like that. That is sad. But anyways, congratulations to Denise and her show. We'll be following along.

[Grant Ellis]

I will say a lot of people are talking about the purse conversation where her chain got caught in the table. So a lot of people have been reposting it. Like, that's the most relatable thing of.

[Caroline]

Like, there's nothing that eats my purse faster than a picnic table.

[Ingrid Andress]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

I just love that she's trying to, like, diffuse a situation between her daughters while, like, all of a sudden being.

[Caroline]

Like, a plastic knife into this. Like, she.

[Nick]

She is. I love Denise. She's everyone so honest. And so, I mean, like, you know, no disrespect to most of the housewives that, you know, just kind of came from money and they're. Their biggest moment of their career is being a housewife. But Denise is like, Denise Richard, she's literally like a Bond girl. She's a movie star and like now. And she's incredibly down to earth. Like she, she's, she's one of the more down to earth, I think housewives out there. Like, she's just so, like, whatever. I'm. You know, like that scene where she was just like, you know, plastic. No, like where she broke the fourth wall and she's like. And that's why we have a TV show. It was amazing. It was awesome.

[Ingrid Andress]

Then when she was on Tori Spelling's podcast and she's like, people want to see my boobies and thank you. Yeah.

[Nick]

Oh yeah. He'll cut the diss if you do want that out. That was great.

[Natalie]

Yeah, I just like love how real she was too. And she was like, what the. It's a picnic. What do you mean? Bamboo and sugar products do. I'm bringing plastic.

[Ingrid Andress]

She's like, what a make it. It's, it's, it's so family.

[Caroline]

Which is funny. It reminds me of Megan Markle's like little documentary she's come out with or show that she's come out with.

[Nick]

And it's, she's the opposite of these Richards.

[Caroline]

Well, no, well, she talks. The amount of just like plastic Meghan Markle uses in her home and it's supposed to be very like earth friendly and all this stuff and everyone's like the amount of plastic bags that you're using right now and like the amount of balloons. Are you serious? Petroleum. Like that's what we're doing.

[Nick]

Poor Megan, she can't. Can't catch a break. Break. She is still rich though. All right, up next, we have a very great interview. Now it's time for Ingrid Andress. We talked about article a lot on this show because we love all the furniture they are making for our home and yours. I've been an article customer since 2019 now and I have raved and talked about some of the outdoor pieces we have at our house in la. And so if our friends who come over and always ask us, where'd you get those very fancy beanbag chairs? I don't even know.

[Caroline]

They're like lounge chairs. They're so comfortable, but they're also so bougie and like nice looking, they're such great quality. I have sent the link to them to so many people that I know because they are so good. Article offers curated range of mid century modern coastal scandi inspired pieces that not only shine on their own, but also pair seamlessly with nearly any other article product. This thoughtful design approach makes it incredibly easy to mix and match, helping you create a space that feels cohesive and stylish.

[Nick]

And the best part about Article is that they have inventory. So many in most of of their things that they are selling right now online are available to be shipped right away. I mean, if you've been shopping for furniture, you know what it means to like find something you like, go online and then they'll tell you that it's going to be available in seven months. Article not the same with them. Their customer service experience is top notch, making it an even better experience for you. Not only are you getting great furniture at great prices, you're getting an amazing customer service experience. And if by some miracle you're not obsessed with your article pieces, no problem. They make that exchange or return process incredibly easy.

[Caroline]

With the article's 30 day satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence, knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it. Article is offering our listeners 50 off your first purchase of a hundred dollars or more. To claim, visit article.comvill and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's article.comvill for $50 off your first purchase of a hundred dollars or more. You may associate elevating your style with breaking the bank, but that's no longer a problem thanks to Quince. With Quince you can get high end versatile basics and pieces you can actually afford that will last you a lifetime. Now you can upgrade your style with high quality essentials that make sense with your budget. Quince has all must have items like Mongolian cashmere crewneck sweaters, love from $50, iconic 100 leather jackets and versatile flown and activewear. The best part? All Quince's Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices along with premium fabrics and finishes. How amazing is that?

[Nick]

It's truly amazing. If you're not shopping at Quince, what the heck are you doing? They really have some great pieces for you, the men in your lives. Really for everyone. Whether it's again those basics or those beautiful pieces like their Mongolian cashmere crew neck sweaters, it really is a great place to redo your entire closet. Indulge in affordable luxury. Go to quinn's.com v I a l l for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's quinn qU-U-I-N-C.com v I a l l to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com. v I a l L My. My parents homeschooled some of my siblings.

[Zoe]

For real? Why not you?

[Nick]

I was. I'm one of the old. I. I have 10 siblings.

[Zoe]

Okay, I didn't know that.

[Nick]

Yeah. So they were just trying new things out.

[Zoe]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

You know, dipping in different ponds, you know, totally, literally.

[Nick]

That's kind of.

[Zoe]

Was it like, culty vibes or like.

[Nick]

We'Re pretty normal for. For being freaks?

[Zoe]

Yeah. Yeah, I totally get that.

[Caroline]

Do you feel like they're as smart?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Nick]

I think they're as educated as I am.

[Zoe]

I was just about to say it's probably. The education level is probably up there, but street smarts is where we lack at the beginning.

[Caroline]

Well, I lack in. In all of it, so it's okay. You're in safe comfort.

[Zoe]

So no street smarts for idiot.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Nick]

She's lying. She's very.

[Zoe]

That is so.

[Caroline]

She.

[Nick]

She moved in New York as a teenager, so you can imagine her.

[Zoe]

Oh, girl. Yeah. Oh, please. Okay. Yeah.

[Nick]

She runs circles around. Yeah. She. Now she's with you.

[Zoe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Nick]

Ingrid, welcome to the show.

[Zoe]

Thanks for having me.

[Nick]

We're so excited to have you.

[Caroline]

So excited.

[Zoe]

I'm excited to be here. First podcast back from my, you know, being off the grid.

[Caroline]

Where did you go when you went off the grid?

[Zoe]

Well, I went to rehab, and I went to. I went back to Colorado, which is where I'm from, and spent a lot of time in the mountains. Mountains.

[Caroline]

Is your family still there?

[Zoe]

My brother is, but everybody kind of dispersed.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Zoe]

I have sisters in Seattle. My parents live in the northern woods of Minnesota. My youngest sister now lives in Nashville with me. So we're all kind of just all over the place. But, yeah, I spent a lot of time with family, and then I was like, okay, I think it's time to reemerge.

[Nick]

I mean, how do you want to talk about that experience? What's your comfort level?

[Zoe]

Just ask. Honestly, I'm so comfortable with it. I know it's such, like, a taboo thing for people to want to discuss, but to me, it shouldn't be, because.

[Nick]

I mean, have your friends been like.

[Zoe]

So, like, that's been like. The best part is, like, some people are full on. Like, what was it like? Like, like, did you have outfits? Like, what was the thing? And then some people are just like, I'm just glad you're better now.

[Caroline]

And, like, I was praying for you.

[Zoe]

Yeah, exactly. Like, I'm so glad you're okay. As if I just like, yeah. So I'm fine talking about it because to me, it was such a needed experience for me based on the dark trajectory I was going down. So I feel like even if you don't have a substance issue, disconnecting and asking yourself where you're at in your life and really getting down to, you know, your emotional well being and like, slowing things down, I think is essential, especially for pretty much everybody in this country.

[Nick]

So how did it get to that point? Like, I mean, I. I got to assume a lot of kind of have to go wrong for you to walk out on into. I don't. The. The pitcher's mound. I don't know exactly where you sing.

[Zoe]

I'm really glad I didn't have to walk all the way out and a long walk back. I probably wouldn't have made it to the pitcher's mound in my condition. Let me tell you how.

[Nick]

How. Yeah, like, how does it, how does that happen? How aware were you, like, in that moment? Like, I'm really fucked up, but here we go, you know? Or were you like, do you remember it? Like, how. How inebriated were we?

[Zoe]

I. So that day started as like a very. What seemed like a normal day. It was really more. It's. It's more about all the days leading up to that or like all the weeks. So at that point, like that day, I. I knew that I was drinking, but I was really loving, like, the numbing feeling that I was having. And so I just didn't stop. Stop. And so it wasn't until I woke up the next day where I was like, okay, this is. This is so unlike me. Like, this is not okay. Like, I need help. Because I actually walked out and like, did not care. I was just like, I don't care. I don't care how this goes. Like, I'm just. I was so fucked up. Sorry. Messed up.

[Nick]

You can swear.

[Zoe]

Okay. Yeah. I was so gone that afterwards I thought that I, like, kind of nailed it. I was like, oh, I feel like it. There were some hiccups in there. I could have sang it better.

[Nick]

You're more like, not my best.

[Natalie]

We did good.

[Zoe]

I called my best. My best friend called me after I got off the field, and I remember briefly talking to her. She's like, so how do you think that went? And I was like, well, I feel like it wasn't my best, but, you know, like, that's how gone I was. But.

[Nick]

And then did that particular friend, like, break the news or.

[Zoe]

She was very delicate. She was like, are you sure you think that went well? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'll talk to you later. Later. And it wasn't until when I woke up the next morning, one I was like, it's terrifying that I don't remember how it went. And then that's when I called management and was like, hey, I need to go. I need to check myself in somewhere. Like, this is not like me. And I feel like I'm at a point where I don't feel like I can get out of this myself.

[Nick]

Was that your first experience with recognizing any type of issues when it came to abusing substances?

[Zoe]

Yes, that it was the first time. Because in my mind, I'm like, oh, I. I've had this under control for a very long time. And I think after I parted ways with my first and ever manager and broke up with my, you know, very serious boyfriend, like, all at once. And I didn't realize how much I didn't let myself process those emotions of. Of grief. And I think at that time, you know, everyone says, oh, just keep moving, keep moving, keep busy. And because I didn't process all that, I didn't realize how much it was starting to creep in in other ways, which we know I was increasing. It happened really quickly. It was in within, like, three months. I was drinking way more than I ever had ever. And just loved that, that numbing feeling. Because that's why we abuse any substance, right? It's like. And really anything can to not feel the feeling. Yeah, it's like shopping, eating, gambling, sex. Like, anything can be an addiction. And we all have the ability to abuse substance when we are trying to numb something. So that's when I realized I was like, I don't actually know how to get out of this.

[Nick]

How quickly did it escalate into a problem now that you look back and reflect?

[Zoe]

So my youngest sister lived with me for a while, like, trying to get back on her feet in Nashville, and then she moved out in May. And that's kind of when everything started hitting me. Like, I was alone in my house and, like, all those feelings of what I had, you know, all the people I had to say goodbye to before, and just everything hit me. And so, like, beginning of May is when it just started spiraling so quickly. So then by July, I was just like, I don't feel anything anymore.

[Caroline]

Good.

[Zoe]

And it's kind of nice. Like, it's great. And to me, it worked out great. And it only took, you know, global humiliation for me to be like, this is a problem.

[Nick]

How? How? I mean, I. I mean, I definitely Remember when it happened? Good.

[Caroline]

I'm a baseball fan.

[Nick]

I'm a baseball fan.

[Zoe]

So, I mean, I was. And now I'm never showing my face in a game ever again.

[Grant Ellis]

But, like, how.

[Nick]

How. How big did it. Did it really feel like the world found out?

[Zoe]

It did. And luckily the world was finding out. As I was on a plane to rehab, which is when I made my statement and posted online that I was going to rehab. I didn't realize how much the video was going viral because I wasn't. I'd never experienced anything like that. I just figured, like, oh, like, people will make fun of me and then people will forget. And, like, the fact that everyone was picking it up and everyone was, you know, you know, doing reaction videos on TikTok. And, like, I didn't realize that until right before I got to rehab. And I'm like, thank God they're taking my phone away, because I've never one experienced this much hate on such a massive level before. And that's when I realized I was like, oh, I don't think I can handle this right now.

[Caroline]

Well, I will say I am chronically online and I had never seen it or heard of it.

[Zoe]

Oh, wow.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Zoe]

What a relief.

[Caroline]

There are some of us out there.

[Zoe]

Oh, my God.

[Caroline]

So you don't just know you and love you for your music.

[Nick]

And again, I'm just a baseball fan, so it was probably like I was a. I was just watching, like, All Star coverage.

[Zoe]

Yeah, exactly. Well, I didn't think they have the audacity to play the clip on mlb. Like, I was like, oh, my God. But I will say, at the time, I know, like, politics was, like, really bubbling, and I feel like there was just a lot of angst in general during that time. So if anything, I feel like at least, if anything, I'm fine with being America's punching bag, because for one moment, everybody was united in the fact that that was Aw. So I feel like I. United.

[Caroline]

You're welcome.

[Nick]

But you said, like, you got hate. Is that, you know, And I'm sure any form of criticism, I'm sure, feels heavy, especially when it's directed at you. But were people, like, really coming at you? Because, like, you know, I didn't know much about you when I saw it, but I was more like, oh, poor thing. You know, like, what a bummer. But I didn't, Like, I don't have a problem with you. You know, it's like, you didn't do any. You know, you didn't do anything to me. But, like, were People like personally triggered and coming at you or did you.

[Caroline]

Did everything just feel loud?

[Nick]

Yeah. Or just at all? It just felt loud.

[Zoe]

I think the biggest backlash was when I. Because when I posted, like, hey, I. I'm sorry I was drunk, apologize to MLB and like, I'm checking into rehab, like, that was the most vulnerable I think I've ever been in on admitting something like that because I, I had the thought of like, well, maybe I won't tell anybody that I'm going and I'll just like disappear and then come back. But for some reason it felt like I got more hate from saying that I was going to rehab of just like, oh, you're blaming it on being drunk when you're just a bad singer. And like, it, it was really. It showed me a lot about one, how sensitive I am and two, just the lack of empathy in general, which I didn't think. I don't know. I guess I hadn't been exposed to that at that level before, but I don't. I hope it's not pointed at me as a person. I think there's just a lot of anger that people need to.

[Nick]

Yeah. I'm often reminded, I don't know how much you know about me or like, oh, I was once on a reality TV show.

[Zoe]

How do you know that?

[Nick]

I've told this story a few times, but it was like, it's. Maybe I don't. Maybe it'll help you. But like, I got, I got trolled a lot at times when I was on the show. And then at first I blocked a few people. I was like, you know what? This person's mean. I'm not gonna listen. A few years later, I got a message on Twitter and it was a young lady saying, hey, Nick, can you unblock me on Instagram? I really apologize for calling you. I don't remember, like a ugly troll, blah, blah, blah. But in my defense, I was 12, she writes. And it was like, I really, like, I'll always remember that moment because you just never know who's writing it. And it's just like if you knew that all of Your critics were 12 and 13 year old girls, just like, that would make.

[Zoe]

I would be like, okay, if that's what you need to do.

[Nick]

Right? Like, I'm here for you.

[Zoe]

I'm here. Yeah, just get it out, sister.

[Nick]

But what are their 12, 13 or they're an adult human. Like, chances are like, when it comes, when it feels like, what. This doesn't even make sense. Like, why, why are you. Why is this Directed at me like, I know I up, but like it's, it's always. It's some version of a 12 year old, you know, basically, totally.

[Zoe]

Which I, I feel like. I mean, that's so great that you recognize that, you know, relatively early on in this process for you. Because for me it's. It is new. And so I'm learning new boundaries of, of what I will read and what I won't, which I never had to worry about before. But it's kind of. It's kind of freeing in a way because I do care what people think about me. But I, I'm realizing that I care more what they think about my music and my songwriting and that, I mean, they can judge how I look, what I wear. Like all these things that, I mean, are kind of pointless. But to me, what I care about is the things that I really care about, which is music and songwriting. So if. And I realize that some people won't like that either, but I just. That's.

[Caroline]

Yeah. I was going to ask if you have and what it looks like your like, relationship with social media today.

[Zoe]

I think I want to be less precious about it moving forward, especially because. Because I was so terrified of like fucking up for so long in my career and I feel like now that I've done that on such a massive scale, it feels like the band aid has been ripped off and that I can show that I am a human and that it's. You know, everyone thinks celebrities are a certain way or whatever, but I'm. I'm more comfortable showing up as a human being than now, I think. And so whatever that looks like on social media is probably going to be more transparent than I have been in the past. Just because I was so afraid that somebody would take something the wrong way or I would offend somebody with something that I wore or like just all those things. And now I feel like all those voices are not completely gone, but they're, They're. They're not as loud.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, the, the. The more people know that they can get to you, the more they'll try type of thing and the more you show people like, you know, do say what you want to say and like, it doesn't really impact me. Then it just becomes bored. Boring for those people, you know. I know it's really kind of a weird dynamic. Were there any artists that you are friends with or collaborated in the past that reached out and offered you any type of support?

[Zoe]

Yes. So that was actually the other really meaningful thing that happened after the Anthem. I was expecting no one to reach out or like, but there was just so much outpouring of love from. From female country artists in. In Nashville. And I actually felt like, so loved and seen like going into rehab.

[Caroline]

Like, that's lovely.

[Zoe]

Like, Elle King was like, this is just all part of it, girl. And like, she's obviously been there before too. And, you know, Kelsey Ballerini was like, welcome to, you know, the worst parts of this job. And like, it was all. It was mostly women and like Karen Fairchild from Little Big Town. And. And that really meant a lot to me because I feel like women in country music have had to stick together based on very obvious things because it's like a very male dominated genre. But for them to. To be like, hey, like, we've all been there.

[Caroline]

You're not alone. Yeah.

[Zoe]

Yeah, it was very meaningful. And Carlos Santana randomly was like, yeah, have never spoken to him before in my life. And he asked my management, he's like, hey, can I get Ingrid's number?

[Nick]

That's very iconic, right?

[Zoe]

I was like, hello. I was like, in rehab. I was like, hi there. What are you. What's up?

[Caroline]

It's me.

[Zoe]

Yeah, it's me, your long lost friend. But he was so kind and so supportive and was just like, you know, if you ever want to do a song, like, you know where to find me. And he, like sent me flowers and I was like, say yes. Yeah. I was like, I will pencil you in, sir.

[Nick]

You're like, I'm lit. You know where to find me. I'm in rehab.

[Zoe]

And actually this rehab has a studio, so if you want to like pop by here, like, please feel free.

[Nick]

Do you think you would ever want to perform?

[Caroline]

She redeemed herself. I did.

[Nick]

Where? When last?

[Zoe]

Well, it was very recent. That was like on Friday. Yeah.

[Caroline]

Yeah. You crushed. How did it feel?

[Zoe]

It was great.

[Nick]

And why hasn't that gone more viral?

[Zoe]

Oh, I wonder why. Because I sound better. I'm like, I actually sang it and actually people still are like, oh, she's still drunk. Like, she's singing it so slow. And I'm like, well, I'm singing it slowly because it was actually harder to sing this time around because the first time I had in ears, which is where you can hear yourself. I didn't hear myself the first time because I wasn't mentally there. But the second time they didn't have in ears, so. So. And it was in an arena, so you have to sing slower because you're the. The echo is constantly bouncing back at you.

[Nick]

So that just made your comeback even more harder.

[Caroline]

Yeah, it did still crush. So.

[Zoe]

Yes, I did. And it felt. I. When I tell you, like, I have never been more nervous about something.

[Nick]

Oh, I gotta. I gotta. Oh, my God.

[Zoe]

Like, oh, my. The only thing getting me through it was the thought, like, I never have to sing this song again. Yeah.

[Caroline]

Was it kind of like, once I redeem myself and do it once I'm like, that's all I have to do.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And that. Was that something that, like, your. Your team was like, hey, you need to get it back there and sing the national anthem? Or were you like, no, I. I need to do this to show myself and my fans and the world that, like, I can sing this fucking song.

[Zoe]

Yeah, it was a bit of both because I'm very. I am a competitive person. And originally I told my team, I was like, I'm actually never singing that song again. And we were just gonna move on and talk about it a lot. But as time went on and we. I was writing more music and I was like, I think actually for my own mental wellbeing and to be able to close this chapter, like, I need to do this for myself. Even though know I hate this idea. Because if you bomb the anthem twice, your career is over.

[Caroline]

Like, truly.

[Zoe]

Especially after. Can you imagine bombing very high? Like, there's really no coming back from that. Yeah. So, yeah, part of me just needed to do it to prove to myself that I could and to show people who maybe didn't know me outside of that. Like, I actually. Actually am a singer and I've been doing this for a long time, and it actually does mean a lot to me and I take it seriously.

[Caroline]

So how long was the. Like, after you finished?

[Zoe]

I. The next day.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Zoe]

Was very different than the next day.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Zoe]

I. The amount of. I didn't realize how much weight I was carrying with. And so when I woke up the next day and it was gone, I was like, oh, I had no idea I would feel this much relief. And. Yeah, it didn't. The video didn't blow up as much as the first one because I just think. I just think sometimes people, like, yeah, they're terrible. Yeah. I'm like, how do I say this without saying people can be shitty sometimes.

[Caroline]

They are, Nick. And I say this all the time. I mean, it's why we don't ever, like, really open up that much about that kind of stuff is because it will. No one cares.

[Zoe]

Like, no.

[Caroline]

No one cares about the truth. They just want to run with the fun story that They've made up.

[Zoe]

And.

[Caroline]

Yeah, it's gonna go viral. Like, no one cares about, like, your apology video. It's never gonna go as viral as, like, what. Whatever happened, you know, so it's never worth it, I feel like, because it's just not gonna. It's not gonna go the way that you think it's gonna go.

[Nick]

Yeah, I imagine, like, when, you know, after the incident, like, you making that statement was something that you felt like you needed to do. But, like, in the history of Internet apologies, I've never seen the Internet go, oh, thanks.

[Caroline]

Right, well said.

[Nick]

That was really, really thoughtful. No notes.

[Caroline]

Yeah, never.

[Nick]

Yeah, it'll never happen. You know, so it's like, obviously this was a very big thing for you, so it kind of. You felt like it necessitated that. And every once in a while, like, ye. It may. It might make sense to make a statement, but, like, you never have. You never make a statement because you think it's gonna, like, go over well. And if. And if short of you, like, really needing to. I'm just like, I. I just opt out of not addressing anything.

[Zoe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. It was definitely more for me to do it, and that way I didn't have to, like, talk about it as much because I just went back out and did it and was just like, end of story. I did it. You guys can stop trolling me. But it turns out they can still troll you even after you nail it.

[Caroline]

So, like, this was good, but remember last time?

[Nick]

Yeah, exactly.

[Zoe]

I'm like, I do, but I don't remember really. But yes.

[Caroline]

Well, you have come out with a new song, Footprint.

[Zoe]

Yes, I have.

[Caroline]

Did you. Was that your plan where you, like, I want to come back, and I want to come back with an amazing song?

[Zoe]

Yes. I mean, the significance of Footprints was really more why I wanted that song to come out first. I actually wrote it a couple years ago for my siblings, all four of them, and because I was the first one to leave home and, like, leave the cult. Just kidding. It wasn't a cult. It's very loving family. And I felt like I had left them behind in a way, and I didn't want them to feel like I was abandoning them, but, like. But just to show them, like, hey, you can learn from my mistakes. And, like. But I also wrote it from, like, on top of a mountain of, like, things were going well in my career. Like, I was getting nominated for things, and I was like, oh, see, like, look, you can do this too. Like, if I can do it. But I listened to it. Again after getting out of rehab. And it hit different because I felt, felt like I was listening to it walking up the mountain this time as opposed to being up there already. And it meant more to me because I wanted them to see like one, your older sister is crazy, but resilient. And like, even after all this, like, you can still do this. And if you ever want, want, just know that like, the path that I'm going on is to show that like, you can also pursue your dreams and do things. And so to me, I wanted Footprints to be the first song because it, it hit different from where I'm at in life now. And I mean, I tell them all the time. Like I. I try to lead by example. I'm like, don't follow all my footprints.

[Caroline]

Right.

[Zoe]

Specifically not into the baseball stadium. Um, but I think for me it's important for them to know, like, you, you can do. You can go out and pursue your dreams. Not exactly in the way that I have, but it is possible.

[Caroline]

But also just like, no matter what hardships you go through, you know, every looks different for everyone. Like, you can come out of it, you know, like, you can find the light. You can like do all of the things because you were able to do it, you know, when you are that example to them, them of like, it might not be easy, but it's doable.

[Zoe]

Yeah, exactly.

[Nick]

The good news is, is the only thing Americans love more than a fall from grace is a nice comeback.

[Zoe]

Exactly. That's what I've been told.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Zoe]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Does it feel like that right now?

[Zoe]

I think so. I. I also love a good comeback story. It feels more like just.

[Caroline]

I.

[Zoe]

By no means, like no one should take my advice and no one should be like, you know, following my example after I release a song like Footprints. But I'm just like, it feels like a comeback, but it's also just feels like a return to something that's always been there. And so. Because I think people make mistakes and so to then come out and be like, I'm different, I'm new, I'm whatever. It's like, no, I'm still me. I'm still like the messy, crazy, you know, introspective me, but I feel more present in who I am as opposed to.

[Nick]

I think that's the thing. Cause like, comeback doesn't have to mean like, oh my God, I've recreated myself. I'm a new person. It's like I've made a mistake. I've worked on that mistake. I'm still the very talented vocalist and Songwriter that I've always have been without, like, without the thing that caused the thing. And now I.

[Zoe]

Now I can right the thing that did the thing, and now we're doing the thing without that.

[Natalie]

That thing.

[Zoe]

Yeah, totally.

[Caroline]

You did get to tour with Stevie Nicks.

[Zoe]

I did.

[Caroline]

How was that experience?

[Zoe]

Pretty life changing. She has been, like, my idol for such a long time, and she just transcends timelines and genres and. And a lot of it is because of her authenticity as an artist and as a songwriter and just as a human. And it's rare that you see that as artists get older, I find. But it's almost like she's really embraced her journey and has really leaned into who she is. And I think that's what makes her so magical, is that she does not apologize. She just shows up as herself and has for decades. And to see that, you know, because her and I are obviously at very different. Different places in our lives and careers. But to. It was so inspiring to see her still doing the thing that she loves. And, like, the fans that came out were from all walks of life, like, all different ages. Like, it wasn't just this one thing. It was. It was really powerful to see how many lives and, you know, how many generations she transcends. And I was honestly shocked that I was there, but I felt very at home. Like, with her fans, it felt like everybody appreciated storytelling and just being real and. And truthful and, yeah, it was very inspiring. I definitely want to be her when I grow up.

[Nick]

Do you enjoy songwriting or performing better or is there or mix of both?

[Zoe]

They fluctuate. After being on the road, I'll say, I can't wait to get back in the studio. Like, I am done performing. And then when I'm in the studio for months at a time, I'm like, I can't wait to get out of here and jump around stage. But I will say I think songwriting is probably where I'm more comfortable, just because I feel like I can process myself, my thoughts better in the moment. But being on stage has its own energy. It's like it feels more communal than songwriting does. Songwriting can feel a little isolating, whereas performing on stage, you just. There's like this energy of everybody in the room that is hard not to feed off of and feels very like life giving, in a way.

[Nick]

When you co wrote Boys with Charlie xcx, like, how does something like that come to be? Are you guys, like, friends? You call up and like, I have an idea for. For a song. Do your teams kind of get you together. Like, what does that look like? Because, you know, two different genres.

[Zoe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

You know, and which I always love. I always love when, like, two different things come together.

[Zoe]

Totally.

[Nick]

This is a fun one.

[Zoe]

Yeah, yeah. So how that happened? So, Charlie, she is a very good songwriter. Like, she's written songs for, like, Icona Pop, and, like, she's also started as a songwriter and then turned into art artist. And so Boys was actually the first outside song that she wanted to record, which to me was crazy because I looked up to her as a songwriter. And so for me to get the call of, like, hey, Charlie actually really likes this song. I'm like, well, does she want to, like, tweak it or. And she obviously added her sauce to it. But it was actually. We never, like, collabed on it because the song was already done. Done. And she. Yeah, it was the first time that she took a song that she didn't write.

[Caroline]

How does that feel for you to, like, write songs and then have other artists sing them? Or, like, does that feel good to you, or is it kind of, like, weird because it's like you wrote it, but then you're, like, honored because someone else is singing? But.

[Nick]

And are you writing every song with the intention. Mention of you singing it, or do you sometimes kind of Tone's point deliberately be like, this is not even for me, but I just love what this song is.

[Zoe]

Yeah. So when I started switching or transitioning from just a songwriter to an artist, the whole reason that happened was because I started writing songs that were very personal to me and, like, my story. And artists wanted to cut the songs, and I'd be like, no. And then my publisher was like, will they Then why? Yeah. Or they're just like, well, you're supposed to want other people to sing these songs. I'm like, yeah, but they're my stories, and I'm having a hard time letting these go. And so that was, like, kind of the biggest reason I became an artist was because I didn't want other people pretending that my story was theirs. But there is. There are many songs where I'm like, this is obviously not for me. Like, I would never say that. Like, Boys being one of them. You know, as much as that side of me comes out a lot, I'm like, I am not like that all the time. And I would like to think I am. It's almost like me talking about somebody that maybe I'd want to be one day, you know? But I know at my core, it's like, it's like, saying that you're a wolf, but really, you know, you're like a fox. You know, you're like, this is me. And you're like, this is not me.

[Caroline]

Not me. I'm just joking. I'm just joking.

[Zoe]

Yeah, I'm joking. This couldn't. No one would believe me, you know, so there are. Whenever I write for other artists, I always hoping that they can hear themselves in it, because that's what matters to me. I'm like, does this resonate with you? Like, and obviously, there will always be a part of me in those songs, but it's almost to, like, help facilitate them, as opposed to being like, this is about me.

[Caroline]

What was the first song that another artist cut?

[Zoe]

Oh, what was it? Honestly, Boys might have been the first cut. And then there have been. Fletcher has cut a bunch of my songs, which. I love her. I'd actually have to look. I haven't looked at my list in a minute.

[Nick]

Wow. So humble.

[Caroline]

So humble.

[Zoe]

No, no, I'm being honest. I'm forgetting.

[Nick]

Back to homeschooling.

[Zoe]

Oh, yeah. Let's go. Come on.

[Nick]

So were you homeschooling, homeschooled, like, your entire education system, or was it, like. So my. My parent.

[Zoe]

I was gonna say, tell me about your siblings.

[Nick]

I have 10 siblings. I was. I was public all the way. You know, they just, like, couldn't afford anything else. It was just like, you know, that's what people did. Homeschooling was very niche back then. If you heard of homeschooling back then, it was like, what is going on in that house?

[Zoe]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Nick]

And then my parents, you know, I grew up very Catholic, so then some of my siblings did, like, like, private elementary school and middle. You know, middle school. And then with the younger ones, my mom was like, I want to. You know, I want to do the homeschooling thing. It was, like, through the education system. So, like, she wasn't, like, on an island. She was, like, getting curriculum from teachers, and she was sending in papers, and they were getting graded and scored by actual teachers and things like that. And then my younger siblings would, like, go to music classes at the local schools. So it was very integrated with the public school system. Yeah, it wasn't on an island, so to speak. And then everyone went to high school.

[Zoe]

Oh, okay.

[Nick]

Normal, like, high school for, like, you know, just to integrate with society.

[Zoe]

Right.

[Nick]

What was yours like?

[Zoe]

Very similar. Okay.

[Nick]

Oh, then that's, like. That's. That's normal. That's like.

[Zoe]

Yeah. Well, except I started in preschool through, like, Second grade, maybe. I went to, like, normal public school. But then it was getting harder to pull us out of school because we were starting to learn, like, pretty important things, like reading and stuff. And my dad was a major league baseball coach, and he traveled a lot, and. And spring training is a thing every year. He started with the Detroit Tigers, and then he was with the Rockies for most of my childhood, and then he ended with the Mets.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Zoe]

Hence why the MLB humiliation really stung multiple levels. Yes.

[Nick]

Dad have anything to say?

[Zoe]

Oh, a lot of old retired players reached out to him, let me tell you. Being like, is your daughter okay? And he was like, no, she's not. But so my mom decided to homeschool us because we would have to be pulled out of school a lot to travel with him for, like, months at a time.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Zoe]

So that was the reason, and it was fine. We. We did those. Like, for those of you who are homeschooled, you'll know this. It's like, you get this once a week. Go hang out with other homeschooler classes. It was called a K12 program. So once a week, we would integrate with other homeschoolers. And that's when I remember thinking, like, oh, I'm a cool homeschooler, because everybody else in the. The homeschool world, like, there was a reason why you got homeschooled. You know, like, there was just a lot of stuff going on, and a lot of it was, like, religious repression or, like, something like that. But then I started playing sports and got pretty serious about it when I was 13 or 14 is when you start doing competitive club sports. And so my parents were like, well, it's time to put you in public school then in order to, like, start building that. That resume. So they actually put me in public school in eighth grade.

[Nick]

How did that affect that? You feel like you have a lot of opinions about it.

[Zoe]

Oh, it would be one thing.

[Nick]

Middle school's hard.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Zoe]

Especially the last year of middle school. Like, it'd be one thing to go to high school because it's like, you. You know, people are awkward. Everyone's awkward. And, like, you're coming in from different counties, and, like, everyone's kind of like, it's a new batch of people.

[Nick]

Everyone's like, who the is this chick?

[Zoe]

Yes. Like, it was. It was like breaking into, like, the cool kids club last minute, like, when. When they were about to, you know, leave, and they were just like, we don't really know what to do with you because, like, we're kind of done Here. And I'm like, yeah, totally. I get it. I don't. I don't need to be accepted. So that was a traumatizing year for sure, because my parents were also very conservative and, like, sheltered us from a lot of things. And so when I got to middle school, I really had no idea, like, what was going on. And I wasn't allowed to wear makeup and had to dress very, very, very modestly. And I felt like I learned so much in such a short period of time of like, you know, oh, why is this girl crying in the bathroom over this guy? Like, what happened? And like, oh, like, what's a push up bra? I'm like, what does that do? I'm like, can I have one?

[Caroline]

Putting a razor on your legs?

[Zoe]

Yes.

[Caroline]

What?

[Zoe]

I'm like, do you do the whole one or just up here?

[Caroline]

The knee seems hard. The knee seems.

[Zoe]

They're like, why are you rolling up your gym shorts so high? I'm like, you're not like, shirt up.

[Caroline]

And make at a crop top?

[Zoe]

Like, does that help you play better? I'm like, I don't know. I feel like that would hurt in dodgeball, you know, so it's just there was like all these things that I felt like an outsider, which is why I feel like social norms to me are such a. Is such an interesting concept because they change so much and like, they change based on wherever you go. And like, they're a constantly evolving thing. And. And some people take them really seriously and some don't. And like, as somebody who is still feel. I feel like I'm learning something every day. Is a fascinating concept to me of, like, how we choose to interact with each other and, like, what's acceptable.

[Caroline]

It will be interesting. We have a 13 month old daughter and it will be interesting to see, like, what kind of.

[Zoe]

Yes.

[Caroline]

She.

[Zoe]

Oh, my God. Like, and the personality.

[Caroline]

Yeah. It'll be weird. It'll be weird.

[Zoe]

It'll be great, though.

[Caroline]

You are playing the Grand Ole Opry this weekend?

[Zoe]

I am.

[Nick]

It's kind of a big deal.

[Caroline]

Have you done it before?

[Zoe]

I have.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Zoe]

Not in a. Not in a long time though. Like, I. I've had a lot of great memories at the Opry, for sure, but yeah, this will be my first time coming back in like a couple years.

[Caroline]

How are you feeling?

[Zoe]

I'm excited because it feels very familiar but also very accepting. Like, the country community is. They're like, fiercely loyal. And so I. I feel like it's kind of a nice welcome back into society because country music bands really want to relate to you, and they really want to hear your stories, and I feel like that's what I love about it so much, and I think that Opry has captured that for. For longer than I've been alive and has done that for so many people. So I'm excited. Excited. Yeah. I'm gonna play Footprints for the first time there on piano.

[Caroline]

Oh, my God.

[Zoe]

So we'll see if they like it.

[Caroline]

Well, they will, of course.

[Nick]

It says here you're passionate about comedy and comedians. You're very funny, by the way.

[Zoe]

Oh, thank you.

[Nick]

But do you have any fave comedians that you're following right now?

[Zoe]

I. I mean, there are so many. I feel like I've watched everyone's new Netflix specials, like when there was the writer strike, you know, and I feel like Netflix. Netflix ran out of, like, you know, and they were like, let's give every comedian a special. And I was like, yes. So, yeah, I feel like. Well, I've always loved Bill Burr because he's just, you know, very straightforward. But I also love Nikki Glaser. I've loved her for a minute, and I love that she's, like, finally getting her moment.

[Nick]

She's been a friend of the show for a long time, and it's exciting to see her.

[Zoe]

She. Oh, I just love her. Obviously. Dave Chappelle is, like, one of the OG And Tennessee man. What's his name? Oh, my God. He hosted. Oh, Theo Vaughn. Of course. Yes. Him. He is. He is wild. I'm really happy I don't Pops into his brain.

[Caroline]

I'm like, you are one of a kind, truly.

[Nick]

He'll say things. I'm like, I don't think I could say that out loud and get away with it. He just said. Has a way of just. Okay. I guess so.

[Zoe]

Yeah. It's the way that he says it to where you're like, sure, man.

[Caroline]

Like, he is just asking a question, I guess.

[Zoe]

Yeah. You're just like, only you could ask that. And it's very. Yeah, he's. He's wild.

[Caroline]

What Tennessee man are you talking about? Nate Bartzi.

[Zoe]

Nate Bargazzi.

[Nick]

Oh, yeah. He's. He's hilarious.

[Zoe]

His dryness, like, gives me so much life. And he's. He's also been doing it for such a long time, so I feel like he's having it.

[Nick]

He's really having a moment.

[Zoe]

He's having a moment, too.

[Caroline]

Did you ever think that was, like, a path you might take?

[Zoe]

No. I feel like there. There are similarities in songwriting and comedy writing, which is why I think I get into it so much because they're also writing, you know, in country music, you have, like, that twist at the end or, like, that word play or, like, how. How do you tie this up in the end? And comedy is the same way to where you're almost, like, working backwards when you're writing a joke, and to see, like, the transitions and, like, the writing part of it is so brilliant. And I feel like comedians are just as dark as songwriters are sometimes. And so it's almost like your brains kind of understand each other, and at least in Nashville, like, a lot of the songwriters and the comedians, like, are all friends because there's, like, this understood, you know, ability to write in hopes that you're bringing other people more joy or to make other people feel more understood. And so I just love that about comedy. Sometimes it's. I. I mean, I. I'm not a fan of all comedy. I feel like sometimes I'm like, no, that didn't. That didn't do that.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, sometimes people have some. Mrs.

[Zoe]

Agreed.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Zoe]

Yeah. Amen.

[Nick]

All our audience loves all kind of tv. Any TV shows you're a big fan of watching right now or anything?

[Zoe]

Yeah, I'm really into severance right now. I was on Reddit the other night.

[Nick]

Don't. Well, we're caught up.

[Zoe]

Okay. Same spoiler alert.

[Nick]

What's your theory? What's going on with his wife?

[Zoe]

I feel like. And this is, like, this. I'm worried to say it, because I don't want people to be like, yeah, there's no way. But there's. I feel like her. She is recovering her brain, and so it's almost like if he breaks out of it, it's almost like they need him in order for her to. To, like, build her brain back. In a way, I think she died, or I think.

[Caroline]

I think Lumen staged her death. I get her.

[Zoe]

I think so, too.

[Caroline]

But, like, what? She died, and that's her ghost in.

[Nick]

Like, I'm gonna be so mad if they leave in season two without telling us, without, like, on a major cliffhanger where we have to wait a long time to find out some answers. I need some kind of. Of answer.

[Zoe]

Well, do we think she did get in a car when she had, like, brain damage? And part of Lumen's thing is to, like, rebuild someone's brain, and, like, that.

[Nick]

Sounds like a noble thing, and they don't seem noble.

[Zoe]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Also, my. The thing I will be so disappointed in if I don't get to see Heli Meet Helena.

[Zoe]

I know.

[Nick]

You know what I'm saying? Because, like, there's a lot of similarities between the Innies and the Audis. Right. Especially Mark. Like, Mark's Innie and Mark are similar. Howdy. Kind of the same gentle person. Right. But like Heli and Helena, polar opposites. And I want to see her.

[Zoe]

How would they do that?

[Nick]

I want to see her severed. Oh, somehow. That would be incredible. Yeah.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Definitely not gonna happen in season two.

[Nick]

That. No, no.

[Caroline]

That's season five.

[Nick]

Give me. Yes. Like, but I need. I. I need some clarity with Ms. Gacy.

[Zoe]

I do too.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Zoe]

I don't. I. Yeah.

[Nick]

Something.

[Zoe]

The fact that she is still wanting to see. See. Yeah. There's a lot going on. I feel like I'm. I'm starting to focus on Bert too now.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Is he a part of.

[Nick]

It's definitely a part of it.

[Zoe]

He is, because his partner got a little wine, whatever, and was like, oh, yeah, like, you were there, like, 20 years ago. And he was like, oh, you've had too much to drink. Obviously. I was only there seven years. And, like, the fact that before the guy left and he. He, like, re. Established like, it was. He gets confused. It was only. Which means he was part of making it. And so to me, he must have done something really bad because he was atoning for his sins.

[Caroline]

True. So many questions.

[Nick]

Well, anyway, this is so fun talking with you.

[Zoe]

Thank you guys for having me.

[Nick]

Thank you so. For being so open and just talking about the experience. I know it's never easy, but we're wishing you nothing but the best and great success in the future.

[Caroline]

Congratulations on Footprint.

[Nick]

Congratulations on Footprints. Please come back. Back and just talk about life.

[Zoe]

And I would love that.

[Nick]

And comedy and tv and.

[Caroline]

Is there an album coming out?

[Zoe]

There might be.

[Nick]

Okay. Yeah, we'll look for that album. In the meantime, listen to Footprints wherever you listen to music. Basically.

[Zoe]

Yeah, pretty much. Thank you, guys.

[Nick]

Thank you.

[Caroline]

Thanks. Huge fan. Even bigger than I was before.

[Nick]

Love her. I mean, funny, first of all.

[Caroline]

Really funny.

[Nick]

Really enjoyable.

[Zoe]

She's a great.

[Caroline]

Honestly, she's just like a great outlook, I think, on life. And I guess sometimes it takes going through that kind of. Of thing to, like, you know, I.

[Nick]

Mean, let's be real, like, obviously, like, notching make light of the situation and she. She got the help that she needed. But, like, man, I don't know. Most of my friends have had an experience via alcohol or some sort of substance where they. They. There was a big apology that had to come. You know, there was a moment where they, like, things didn't go their way. I mean, it's not to condone it or anything, but it was, you know, a human mistake and I just love to see her rising and coming back and gist of that situation. So it was great.

[Caroline]

On my 21st birthday I was so hammered and I was crying because I just wanted to go home and my brother told me to shut the up and stop crying and he's had to apologize to me since. So no, there you.

[Nick]

There you go.

[Caroline]

Even when you're not drunk.

[Nick]

Now it's time for our bachelor grant and it is an interview you're not going to want to miss.

[Caroline]

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[Nick]

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[Caroline]

If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] VL that's Mint mobile.com V upfront payments of $45 for three months. 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first three months only, then full price plan options available, tax and fees, extra seat MIT Mobile for details we all know how important it is to filter the water we drink, but why don't we think the same about the water we shower in? Clean water is the first step to effective beauty routine and it's a step that I completely overlooked. I always wondered like why my hair felt dry and why it wasn't as like healthy as I felt like it could have been. Until I figured, you know what, let me go to my water and thankfully Jolie changed the game for me. Jolie is a beauty wellness company that purifies the water we shower in for better skin, hair and overall well being. Jolie's filtered shower head is the best in class for removing chlorine and heavy metals. It's the only lab tested and clinically trialed filtering shower head on the market. Clinically proven to reduce hair shedding in 81% of people. Lab tested to reduce the hair frizziness by 40% lab tested to maintain collagen color retention Lab tested to protect the hair surface level. I mean the list goes on and on. And also Jolie shower heads have a beautiful sleek design that's the perfect combination of form and function so you don't have to have some like ugly big clunky filter up there. It's this beautiful, sleek, nice looking shower head. Jolie will give you your best skin and hair guaranteed. Head to jolieskinco.com V I A L L to try it out for yourself with free shipping. If you don't like it, you can return your Jolie for a full refund within 60 days, no questions asked. That's J-O-L-I-E-S-K-I-N C O.com.

[Nick]

With T Mobile no Trendspotter has to deal with Trendspotty service because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are On America's largest 5G network Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to 800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Last 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required card is no cash access and expires in six months. Homeowners if you want to sell your house fast for all cash, stop what you are doing and listen to this because Osborne Homes wants to buy your house right now.

[Grant Ellis]

I'm Alec from Osborne Homes and we want to buy your house.

[Nick]

Nobody buys more homes in California than Osborne. Whether it's a total fixer upper or in perfect condition, Osborne Homes is the easiest way to sell your house fast. All cash. Best of all, when you sell your house to Osborne Homes there are zero commissions, zero fees plus no banks, no realtors, no repairs and no waiting to close. We buy your house as is all cash. Just go to osbornhomes.com right now to get your free no obligation all cash offer. We are here and ready to buy your house 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Just go to osbornhomes.com go to osbornehomes.com right now.

[Caroline]

Don't wait.

[Nick]

Sell your your house to Osborne Homes.

[Caroline]

And put the cash in Your pocket right away.

[Nick]

Just go to osbornehomes.com. that's Osborne homes dot com.

[Caroline]

Osborne homes dot com.

[Nick]

Osborne Homes dot com. Grant, welcome back to the show, man.

[Grant Ellis]

What's going on? How you doing?

[Nick]

I'm great. How are you doing? How's your heart, man?

[Zoe]

It's good.

[Grant Ellis]

Oh, man. I'm going through it now, but my heart's good. My heart's good. It's been a while since I've been on the podcast, and I'm really happy to be around you guys and see you guys, and I'm. I'm ready to get going.

[Caroline]

I didn't get to meet you last time. Everyone was raving about you. I wasn't here. I don't know what was. Maybe we didn't have a babysitter or something. I don't know.

[Nick]

But you're just like Grant.

[Caroline]

And then I saw how good a season was, and I was like, okay, maybe I'll be there for this one.

[Grant Ellis]

No, it's. It's a pleasure meeting you. And we had. We had a blast last time.

[Zoe]

We.

[Nick]

Can I just say something? You're a really good bachelor, man.

[Grant Ellis]

Oh, man. Listen, there's. There's a lot of mixed opinions, but you know something?

[Nick]

I can tell. I. I am the foremost authority on who is a good bachelor and who is not a good bachelor.

[Grant Ellis]

Your opinion definitely matters, man.

[Nick]

Your. You're very good. You're. You know, and when I say that Joey was very excellent, obviously fan fave, but, like. And I don't even mean, like, you know, whether people I. You know, there's so many things outside of your control as a bachelor. Right. But what I've always been really impressed about watching you this season is your ability to listen and respond to the women and make them feel seen and heard without getting defensive. You've never had to, like, clap back, you know, or like, you've. You've navigated very awkward word or difficult situations with a very high emotional maturity level.

[Caroline]

I've also never said thank you for sharing.

[Grant Ellis]

Oh, yeah. That's.

[Nick]

Which is really.

[Caroline]

It's, like, so nice because.

[Nick]

Well, thank you for sharing is a telltale sign of. I don't give a. I don't know what to say.

[Grant Ellis]

Right.

[Nick]

And you've always, like, had something to say.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And I think that is a great quality, and it speaks to your emotional intelligence.

[Grant Ellis]

Thank you. I appreciate it. You know, it's definitely difficult. I try to go in there and just leave. Would love. Try to listen and try to have a connection with each of the Ladies, regardless of how far along we were, you know, in our romance in that aspect. But I tried. Just had to have a connection. I really cared about them and each of their stories because you learn a lot about them, you know, and, you know, girls, how it came off, you know, I really. I really try to help everybody grow. And myself, I grew a lot on that on. On the show as well.

[Nick]

So, yeah, I'm very excited for this ending.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Probably less excited than you are.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah. But, well, let me say why I'm excited, because, like, I just. The best. The best possible season is when you're like, the le. Because the you leads, they really usually know going into hometown weekends, you know, if they don't know they have a pretty good idea, it's usually the producers, like, being like, well, just keep an open mind.

[Grant Ellis]

That's the same. You have to keep an open mind.

[Nick]

Like, yeah, I'll give it over mine, but I'm picking her. Yeah. And it really seems. You seem really torn, man.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah. I think it's a testament to just how the final two, they were amazing. And I had connections with. With both of them and then. And they were so different. And it just came down to what I was looking for in my life. Who could I relate to the most? And, you know, there's also an extra added pressure on being, you know, the second black bachelor ever. You know, you think that you have to make a decision based off of, you know, what people would want or this or that, but you have to go with your heart, and I think I did that. I just need a little extra time to. To sit and really think things through because I wanted this decision to be final.

[Caroline]

How much extra time did you get? Like 10 minutes?

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, it wasn't. Listen, you know, everything's time. Everything's is. You know, they. It's a lot of drama, which it wasn't. It didn't take as long as what they say, but I understand they have to play it up. And, yeah, it just. It was a really hard decision, but this is somebody who's going to be my wife. So I. I really tried to approach. Approach it like that. And, yeah, we got to see how it ends.

[Nick]

So do you really. Did you really not know the morning you woke up?

[Grant Ellis]

Listen, I. I knew. I knew based off of what I needed, but like I said, it was a mixture of things. Not wanting to hurt somebody. You know, you have to stand your ground and really decide what your heart wants. It was. It was. It was between my head and my heart at one Point. You know, I had feelings for, for both. I, I was in love with both women. And yeah, it just was, it was one. Was it hard? It was hard for me to, to. To hurt somebody on which is going to be the most important day should be the happ day of your life. And then like I said, what you think people want you to do, you have to take a step back and be like, you know what? This is for me and I'm gonna go with who makes me the happiest.

[Nick]

So, yeah, I want to circle back to your final three women and then get into your final two. But Dena recently went home and I was bummed for you. I was, I was more bummed for Dina. I mean, I know she spoke on why her family didn't want to come. You know, I come from a family of 11 like she does. I come from a very religious family like she did. And maybe maybe not quite as hardcore. I don't know, like being your dad, being a deacon, very desperate. That's hardcore. But I was disappointed for her because, like, you know, I don't know, like, listen, like, she's a 31 year old woman. She's an adult woman. I, I'm assuming her parents did a great job raising her. She's very accomplished. And it's like, you know, sometimes your kids are going to do things that maybe you wouldn't do. But like, I feel like you need to show up for your kids. You know, you need to show up. I'm assuming that like her family just in no way at all supporting this journey of hers drastically impacted your decision because, you know, as great as I've always been a big fan of Zoe throughout, throughout this season, but clearly the connection doesn't seem to be there. She, you know, her first one on one was a hometown. You know, you and Dina really seemed to there. She seemed to be something there. But it, it seemed like as soon as her family was like, you know, sorry as, as much as you felt for her and you know, got to meet her friends, but I got to assume that played a major role in your decision.

[Grant Ellis]

I'm not going to say it was as big as a factor as, you know, I really just felt bad for Dina and how she, you know, because you want your family to support you on a big day like that, you know, to show up and rally behind you, especially when you're going to get looking at it back, you're going to get opinions from the Internet and your family has to have your back. But I think the whole situation with Zoe is just to clarify, you know, a lot of people maybe question why Zoe made it that far or things of that nature. I think, listen, with Zoe, she grew up in the south, and she's a strong black woman, and the way that she comes across off camera, you know, maybe sometimes she's a little defensive, and sometimes things like that come into play. But what I will say is every group date, every situation, she showed up and she gave. Gave her all. And I see where that comes from. You know, I've dealt with that in the past where you get stigmas placed on you or things like that, and you have to power through those. So I really wanted to help her grow. And I think that, you know, I'm. I. I have empathy. I'm an empath. So, like, I saw that in Zoe and I saw a place for me to help her, to help build her up. I saw a place for growth where I could say, okay, this person. And I could relate and I could kind of teach her or show her not how to be, but like, how to grow out of a situation when she spent majority of her childhood going through probably, you know, bullying. And, you know, you could tell that she. She was. She needed some confidence instilled in her. So I was, I tried to be that person.

[Nick]

Yeah, I. I really liked her on the show. I have enjoyed her. You know, someone who. She's an engineer.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I mean, like, even that, like, it's a. It's a very male dominated profession. So her whole career she's inserted herself that she's immediately an outsider as a, As a woman of color. Like, you know, she has to deal with feeling like that already at times. You know, the Bachelor house is a very much like, there's always a handful of people who are treated differently or treated like a household because you're not part of the group and things like that. So I, I really connected with her on that level. I'm glad she's made it as far as she has. But, you know, and I know you. You can't speak on it because we don't know. But it. It does seem like clearly the connection with Juliana and Latia. Yeah, like, it's obvious. Like, it's, It's. It's so obvious that those are so strong. But, like, I usually. I feel like, you know, I've been pretty good, you know, at being like, that's it. Yeah, that's the person. You know, I think I've called it a few times, but I truly like, between Latia and Juliana, I. Every Time you're with both of them, it really seems like that's the person you're most in love with.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, they're both bring unique sides out of me. And, you know, I think that with Jules, with Juliana, there was something that we could relate to.

[Nick]

Call her Jules.

[Grant Ellis]

I called her Jules. That means me. I called Latia T.T.

[Nick]

That'S true.

[Caroline]

He didn't call Latia T.T.

[Nick]

Got a spoiler. That's true.

[Caroline]

He did call her Titi.

[Grant Ellis]

I call her Titi. So I'm just corny like that sometimes.

[Caroline]

He likes a nickname.

[Grant Ellis]

He likes a nickname. No, but I think that she brought a certain side out of me that was. You know, we really related over the addiction and the. Some of the trauma we went through and how we were going to build each other up and how we could understand each other. And Latia was really nurturing. She is an amazing woman, and she has so much to offer, and I. I saw that. So both of them had different aspects that I kind of. That's why I had such a hard time seeing, going down to those final moments.

[Caroline]

So I think I might have said that you did her a little dirty with the conversation on the rock where she's like, listen, if it's not me, like, I'll go. And you were like, I'm kind of locked in. And then you sent her home that night.

[Grant Ellis]

Right, Right.

[Nick]

I blame producers.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Nick thinks that that was a. Like a producer like her around.

[Zoe]

How.

[Caroline]

Why. Why not let her go in that moment? Did you?

[Nick]

Because he didn't get the. He didn't get the bat signal.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, I think that. Listen, I'm not gonna say, listen, I went in there. I knew that, you know, with Carolina, she. The attitude that she had on the dates, you know, not. Not a bad attitude, but her demeanor was kind of like, you know, she. She was questioning and doubting, and, you know, there were. Obviously, there was things that happened behind that. The scenes that didn't. That weren't necessarily showed on camera, but going in there, you know, I. I was leaning more towards letting go of the relationship. But when, you know, she started to cry and she started to do things, I just.

[Nick]

I. Not a thing.

[Grant Ellis]

She did her thing. She did her thing. And I had to diffuse the situation. You know, maybe. Maybe it would have been the best idea to. To end the relationship there. I just. Yeah. Looking back at it, maybe I was trying to be too. Too nice, you know, and maybe work worried about my appearance or how it would look and, you know, when somebody's crying, sending them Home. But at the end of the day, we definitely had a connection. I tried to mend that as much as possible, you know, and I tried because I really did have a connection with her. But all the things that got in the way and just her questioning the process and doubting me, it started to really get, get, get to me. And right there in that moment, we were. I was trying to. You know, I went in there with the mindset of maybe this is going to work out, but then I had to remember all the good things that we had and tried to fight for the relationship.

[Natalie]

So to Nick's point earlier, because I have to say that, like, watching your season, this is one of the first bachelor seasons where, like, I'm not sure, fully sure. Watching throughout who you're gonna pick because you have such good chemistry with these women.

[Grant Ellis]

Right.

[Natalie]

Did you. I don't know how I can ask this. And I'm like, did you have a first impression on somebody to where you thought maybe they would make it to the final two? And it did happen, or like, it was the person that you picked or does it something that you, like, grew to have a relationship with the person and that's how they ended up being a final. Like, did you know?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Grant Ellis]

The final two. The final two women. I. I had a connection with them first night, night one or even the second episode, basically. You know, I think that a lot of people, you know, even. And I'm going to bring this. Even my connection with Alex. She got the first impression.

[Nick]

Curious what happened there.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, I just. Our love languages were very different. You know, we're very different. And not to say that I was more serious, because I know she was serious, but she was not. She wasn't used to the romance and things like that as much, you know, And I. We were trying to work, but ultimately it was just. I just saw the difference there. And like I said, she was great. You know, we could have moved forward, but I just thought it was best that it didn't happen that way. But as far as my final two, I thought that, yeah, we were right on par. I thought the connection was there from. From night one.

[Nick]

Love it. Did you. Have you spoken on the whole, like, Carolina and Rose, the ascool and like.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, it definitely comes up.

[Nick]

I was. I was team Grant.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, for sure.

[Nick]

Because I, you know, I mean, I know people were like, out there being like, he actually did say that, but I was like that. Not in the context in which he's being accused. Do you want to. Yeah, yeah. Elaborate on that?

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, so it definitely comes up in. In the future. But, you know, there's a difference between saying, you know, I'm thinking about giving reassurance to somebody and then saying, listen, when I'm with this person, I'm thinking about you. Like, that's not how I meant it. That's kind of like, that gives off major. Major player vibes. And I. I wasn't trying to give that off. So I think, yeah, there's just a miscommunication. But there's a big difference between what I said and then what was said that I said, that I said, didn't say.

[Nick]

Looking back, do you blame. Do you. Do you. Do you think that was Carolina being kind of little petty or, like, messy or was. Or do you think Rose seemed to really feel like she didn't realize what she did? She seemed as confused as you were, you know, or. It's just like, I feel like at first when it happened, I was more critical of Rose, but then the more the season played out, I was like, I don't know, like, this.

[Grant Ellis]

This is messy. It's definitely messy.

[Nick]

Carolina just. She's not dumb.

[Grant Ellis]

Well, she definitely is smart. And, you know, I think that at the end of the day, it falls on me. You know, I. I could have done a better job of communicating that. But at the same time, I think that Carolina started to doubt the process from that moment on. So, again, I see both sides of it, and I understand why Carolina started. Started to act the way that she did, because if you're told that somebody. If you're told that you're gonna. You're gonna question. So ultimately, I think it falls on me. And maybe if I would have worded it different or like I said, going in there, trying to reassure everybody, and just because I cared, maybe that wasn't the best thing. Maybe, you know, but I. In that moment, I genuinely. I. I had a connection with Rose. You know, we. Our first thing, we did the blind date. We did the blind, and we. We were kissing, and. Well, I mean, I was kissing everybody.

[Zoe]

But.

[Caroline]

You still say to yourself now, we definitely.

[Grant Ellis]

We definitely had a connection, and I saw some. I saw something with her. And after that happened, it kind of just. It went. It spiraled after that.

[Caroline]

So I feel like Alicia kind of caught people the most off guard just because night one, you had a great kiss, you had great chemistry.

[Grant Ellis]

Right.

[Caroline]

And then she kind of disappeared, and then she was gone the next night.

[Grant Ellis]

Right.

[Caroline]

Was there anything that, like, happened, or was it just like. There's just so many other Women here that I'm good at a little bit good at it.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah. Yeah, we did. We did have a connection, Alicia and I, but after the basketball date, yeah, I just felt like I had connections that were better in the house that I wanted to explore more. And Alicia's an amazing woman. She's. She's. She's great. But yeah, it just wasn't. Wasn't for me.

[Nick]

Okay, we are heading into fantasy suites on earmuffs Bab. But going into fantasy suites, you know, it's a lot of pressure. It's the hardest week.

[Grant Ellis]

It's a lot.

[Nick]

There's a lot of expectations from some of the ladies. Some of the ladies have boundaries like Latia, where it's like, hey, I got a very strong opinion about sex and intimacy. Other ladies are like, ready to go. You know, it's like, this is my time to land my man, you know, and you kind of have to navigate that and various leads go in with various expectations. Did you go into fantasy suites with any, like, set boundaries of how you wanted to conducted yourself, specifically around sex?

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, fantasy suites is really tricky, but I think I handle myself very well, you know, regardless, you know, like I said, I was. There's a lot of kisses, but I do feel like fantasy suites, I really reserve myself and. Because when you get physical intimacy involved changes things. It changes things. And you. Your connection with somebody is probably. There could be some red flags there. And then you guys have sex and then everything's one wonderful. So I, I tried to handle myself really well and I tried to be responsible. And yeah, my expectation was I wasn't going in there saying I'm not going to, but it had to be. I had to know that this person was my person in order for me to engage. And at that point, I didn't know who was my person.

[Caroline]

So he didn't vote?

[Grant Ellis]

Well, I didn't say that. I didn't say that directly.

[Nick]

You didn't say you didn't do other things?

[Grant Ellis]

I didn't say, but, yeah, I handle myself well, you know. And then also too, like I said, there's always the pressure and the stereotype of, you know, me being the second black bachelor. You know, people are going to think I'm a player or this or that or I'm just trying to get my rocks off. And I wasn't, you know, I went in there with. With real intentions. And, you know, prior to that, I had been celibate for a year. So I got. I got out of a seven relationship and I. I was hurting so like, you know, sex is great, but I wanted to make sure it was with somebody who, who was my person. And then we could all the time, you know.

[Nick]

But you.

[Zoe]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Grant Ellis]

I. I don't know. I don't know.

[Caroline]

Are you nervous? I mean, obviously, women tell all has been filmed. It airs this Monday. This upcoming Monday, right?

[Nick]

Does it? Monday this month?

[Caroline]

That was an argument we had earlier. Next Monday or this Monday?

[Grant Ellis]

This Monday, I believe. Right.

[Nick]

Do you. Well, what, what, what. How would you describe, Describe. Would you say this Monday or next Monday?

[Grant Ellis]

Well, I mean, I think. Well, what day, what day are we at? Wednesday. So that's a good question. I would say this Monday, the following Monday has passed, so it'll be this coming Monday.

[Caroline]

Okay. How did that go for you? Were you nervous? Were you questioned? Were you interrogated?

[Grant Ellis]

I wasn't. I was interrogated. You know, I. Like I said, I was definitely. Some of the ladies had questions for me, which I could understand. You know, I could understand. It's not easy being a bachelor. It's not. It's not an easy feat. It's not an easy job. And yeah, I had to answer to some things, but like I said, I just took accountability. And the worst thing you could do in. In my situation is get emotional and, you know, emotional to the point where you start to clap back and do something back. So whatever feelings you had, I just took accountability. And I, you know, I'm not perfect, you know, I, you know, I may not be the best, you know, but I did my. I did my best. And I think that the ladies perceived that well. And, yeah, that's the. I did my best.

[Natalie]

So what's the most surprising thing that you've learned about yourself going through this process?

[Grant Ellis]

It was like a therapy session for me, honestly, you know, situation. You know, coming up, you're going to see me reconnecting with my dad and me just knowing I had a lot of stuff inside that I was just holding in, you know, as a man, I try to always be strong and, like, try to keep that face, that brave face. But sometimes you gotta let it out, you know, you gotta let it out. You gotta be in tune with your emotions. And I feel like I tried that, you know, not that I tried that, but this journey really awakened that in me, you know, my emotional side. And to say, you know, it's okay to speak on how you feel as long as you're not crying everywhere, you know, but there's time, there's a point, there's a place in time. To. As a man, to let yourself be vulnerable, you know, I think it's a strength.

[Natalie]

Absolutely. And also, are you surprised that the process worked in the way that it has?

[Grant Ellis]

No, I think. I think the process works if you go in there and you're ready. If. Well, not to say that, but for. There's also external factors. But for me, because I was at a point where I was like, super ready. I did my. I did my best to make it work, you know, and like I said, obviously there's external factors. You know, it's both people that have to make it work. But from my end, you know, I was ready.

[Nick]

I've noticed that this season is a bit truncated compared to previous ones. When I was hometown for my season was week nine.

[Grant Ellis]

Right.

[Nick]

This week six. Did you have any conversations with the producers about this being shorter than previous seasons or, you know, or did you even. Did you even realize that?

[Grant Ellis]

No, I did. I did realize it was shorter. And, you know, there's some. There's some things with the network, obviously, I don't really know, you know, maybe scheduling or things like that. But listen, I was emotionally. I was getting drained. So, I mean, I'm glad it was only six. Six or seven weeks, because I would have started to spiral if it. It wasn't, though.

[Nick]

Yeah. I mean, I'm thinking about just like, in terms of, like, how does that affect, you know, your ability to fall in love and things like that? I think we're. And my guess is probably not much, you know, for me. Like, I. I kind of knew who I was going to pick fairly early on and things like that. And a lot of the other weeks and other dates are more just like the drama and the tv. TV element. So you felt like it didn't really affect your ability to connect with the people that you cared about most.

[Grant Ellis]

No, it didn't affect my ability. Like, I'm a lover boy, so I was falling. Like, you know, it doesn't take me a see, I was falling, what, like week two. So I was like, it didn't really take a lot, but it does. It does. When you start to fall and then you form another connection here, that's where things. You wish you had a little more time to kind of like, really figure things out.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Natalie]

How scary was hometowns in the sense of, like, usually you're meeting somebody's just one set of parents or family or friends, and it's like you did four. So, like, I did a lot back to back, you know, like, how did that feel? Like, having to prepare for diff.

[Zoe]

Was it three?

[Caroline]

Well, Dean and his family didn't.

[Natalie]

Well, still friends.

[Grant Ellis]

There's a lot of friends, too.

[Natalie]

Friends are scarier than family sometimes.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah. No, not that I was scared. I. It just, you know, at first, you walk in there with nerves. You might be a little nervous. But then when you meet the families and they're so welcoming and cool, it's like, oh, like, this isn't. This isn't hard. I'm just be myself, you know? So going in there, I was a little nervous, you know? But I said, if I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna be myself. And whoever accepts me for me is. Is.

[Nick]

Is.

[Zoe]

That's.

[Grant Ellis]

That's a sign.

[Natalie]

When Juliana's dad was like, hey, kissing my daughter, like, did you get a little, like, tight in the stomach or did you know he was joking?

[Grant Ellis]

Nah, I knew he was joking. He was joking. He was. He was such a cool guy, you know? Like, I knew he was. He was messing around.

[Nick]

I'd like to play a little game.

[Grant Ellis]

Let's do it.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Grant Ellis]

Let's do it. All we got.

[Nick]

And I want to apologize if you are in a relationship. I do want to apologize to the one you picked because I want to ask you to describe what a life would be like.

[Zoe]

Oh.

[Nick]

With Jules. And then I want you to describe to me what a life would be like with Latia, T.T.

[Grant Ellis]

Titi.

[Nick]

T.T.

[Caroline]

And Zoe. We still have Zoe.

[Nick]

All respect to Zoe. Love Zoe. But there was not one else that day.

[Caroline]

I was like, there is not.

[Nick]

I'm just not going to make him do that. If he wants to do that, he is welcome to do that. And I know he can't say anything specifically, but I, I. This is my question, my game. And again, I do, I do want to apologize if you are in a relationship with the person you are in a relationship with, because it's no fun to hear Grant describe what a relationship would be like with someone he decided not to pick.

[Caroline]

For sure.

[Nick]

Yeah. So I want to recognize that. Who, Whoever you are to TT Or Jules. This is a me question. Don't get mad at Grant. You can hate me.

[Grant Ellis]

Okay.

[Nick]

All right. Describe to me what a life with Jules would be like.

[Grant Ellis]

I think it would be very family orientated. I think it would be fun. I think it would be a lot of us building each other. Building each other up and healing each other from our past experiences that we went through. And I think it would be a relationship founded in friendship.

[Caroline]

Where would y'all be living?

[Nick]

Yeah. Thank you very much.

[Caroline]

You're welcome.

[Grant Ellis]

Probably on the East Coast. Probably on the East Coast. You know, I grew up on the east coast, so. Yeah, typically, maybe in. In the city somewhere.

[Caroline]

Okay. What would like, your nights look like? Are we, like, going out to dinner? Are we cooking? Are we watching a movie? Are we hitting the clubs?

[Grant Ellis]

Okay. Yeah, we might. We might hit. Hit a bar, too, but, you know, I think wine. Some great food, some good vibes, some good friends, and then maybe we might go out and dance or do something fun.

[Nick]

How quickly would a relationship with you and Jules result in children?

[Grant Ellis]

Oh, man. I think. Yeah, I don't know about immediately. I think that my time horizon is before I'm 35.

[Nick]

How old are you?

[Grant Ellis]

I'm 30, 31.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Grant Ellis]

So I think that it would be something that we take on. You know, you can't really say. You can't really. You could plan it out, but I think it would just be something that happens instead of us being like, we want it by this time.

[Nick]

Where would your first trip together be as a couple?

[Grant Ellis]

Probably. Probably Italy. He's Italian.

[Caroline]

Oh, yeah. So far.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Grant Ellis]

It's a good place.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Nick]

T.T.

[Grant Ellis]

All right. All right. Yeah. With Latia or Titi, I think it would be, you know, like another relationship rooted in family. I think that it would be a lot of similar morals that we have. I think it will be fun, loving, loving, nurturing. I think it'll be very serious. And I think that, you know, the family aspect, it would be something that we would be getting into sooner rather than later.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Her family did very much not hold back that she's ready.

[Nick]

Are you talking about the kids part?

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, it would be, like, probably in a year.

[Zoe]

Where.

[Caroline]

And where would y'all be living?

[Nick]

But that. And. And. And that. Does that work with your 35 y old?

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, it's anywhere before 35.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, anywhere before 35. So if it's like, you know, if that's 32, 33, then it's that. But if it's 35, it's just whenever. Whenever it happens.

[Nick]

Where are y'all living?

[Grant Ellis]

Probably somewhere. Either on the east coast or somewhere in. In Utah.

[Nick]

Aren't you in Texas now?

[Grant Ellis]

I'm in Texas.

[Zoe]

So you're getting the.

[Nick]

Out of Texas no matter what? Texas?

[Grant Ellis]

Oh, I've been there for a while. I've pro. I have property there, so it's like, I could leave that. And for me, I've been alone for a while, so. So I probably would. Would go to where my fiance's happy. You know what I'm Saying. And I would build. Probably build around that.

[Nick]

What's Jules's favorite Movie and what's TT's favorite movie?

[Grant Ellis]

Oh, damn. That's a good question. I would say for. For Latia, I think it's. It would definitely be a romcom like the Notebook. I know it's cliche, but we had talked about that. And I think for Juliana, probably the. The Godfather. The good fellas.

[Caroline]

What is it?

[Natalie]

There's Goodfellas, and she's Italian. The Godfather.

[Grant Ellis]

The Godfather, for sure. The Goodfellas Godfather.

[Nick]

Who cook? Who's cooking in each of these relationships?

[Grant Ellis]

I cook.

[Nick]

I.

[Grant Ellis]

You know, I love to cook. My. That's. That's the way that my dad kind of, like, showed love to me. He would, like, make me food, and it was weird because he would, like, watch me eat it. I don't know. It's a weird thing. But I probably would cook. But we. We both cooked. You know, there's room for. Room for growth. Both of us. Room for growth, you know, Room for growth in that.

[Caroline]

Who's making the bed?

[Grant Ellis]

I'm not the best bed maker, so.

[Caroline]

You know what Nick said the other day? He hasn't made a bed since middle school.

[Grant Ellis]

I'm. I'm with you, bro. My mind is, like, all over the place, so, you know, I don't make my bed like that, so what's the point? What's the point? You're gonna get back in.

[Caroline]

That is not true. Because if he gets into a bed that's not made, he's like, really wish this was made.

[Nick]

Well, now that I have a wife who can make my bed, like, I was like, do your. I'm just kidding.

[Grant Ellis]

No, but seriously, you. There's something good about getting into a bed. It's better sleeping in a bed that's made than one that's not.

[Nick]

Sure that's true.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, I'm like, yuck.

[Caroline]

Right before you get in at night, you can, like, straighten out.

[Grant Ellis]

You can straighten it out, right?

[Nick]

I'm sticking with my. I think he picks Jules.

[Caroline]

Well, I am. I. I love Latia so much, so I'm hoping it's her.

[Natalie]

Jules has been my. Day one.

[Caroline]

I will say on first episode, I picked Latia and Jules to be final two.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah. So she did.

[Nick]

I did.

[Grant Ellis]

What gave that away?

[Nick]

She has eyes.

[Grant Ellis]

It's, like, really obvious.

[Nick]

I actually, I. I did not.

[Caroline]

I think it was just. I saw the connection. I think they are both so stunning. I think they're both so smart. I think they're funny. I think y'all Had a good connection. I want it to be Latia just because she's amazing. I just see it. I just see it. We did say that Latia looks like she is like a creature, like a siren, like a creature from, like, when.

[Nick]

She was riding that horse in the woods, I was like, all this love, and I mean creat in the best possible way.

[Grant Ellis]

Like Bambi. Like that.

[Caroline]

Like, she's like, yeah, but obviously, if it's Julianna, I also, like, love her and, like, wanted you to pick her as well. You know what I'm saying? I am team both.

[Grant Ellis]

We have to. We gotta tune in and see.

[Nick]

I think you had an amazing connection with both. I think you really were torn. And I think as much of a man as a God as you might be, I feel like Latia's faith is unique and different than yours, and I can't help but wonder. Well, I think regardless, that made your choice challenging, right? Because she's very, very passionate about her religion. And, like, you had six or seven weeks to get to know all these women, you know, and both these women. And I don't know, like, I feel like it would be impossible in that environment, in your shoes to get whatever clarity you would need to know is like, is this something we could make? Work we could do? Like, you clearly had all the respect in the world for her faith and her family and. And they were wonderful to you and very welcoming. But, like, I think whatever decision you made, you made a huge leap of faith because that's, That's. That's the choice. Like, it's always a leap of faith.

[Grant Ellis]

You're saying, like, in the time frame that we had, that being a question.

[Nick]

Was a really another. That's another decision. That. That's another decision you have to figure out. That's another leap of faith. It's like, it's one thing, you know, can we. Are we compatible? And I. I feel like ultimately that's why you ended up picking Jules.

[Grant Ellis]

Well, we gotta. We gotta see, you know, that's a tune in, you know, of course.

[Nick]

Zoe.

[Caroline]

Did you see that Alex said that you playing?

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, I saw that. You know, like I said, I. I tried. I've never done that before. I tried something new. We were in the mall and the producer just brought out a piano. I'm like, well, I was like, I might as well just go it. But, you know, I. I don't regret it. You know, I tried something, put myself out there, you know, she's the goofy one.

[Nick]

Yeah. I thought you liked fun and games. Yeah.

[Grant Ellis]

If anything, Alex was the one that I thought she would receive.

[Nick]

You brought out a llama.

[Caroline]

You brought out a llama.

[Grant Ellis]

But, yo, like, I. It's not something I. You know, I think it was something that, you know, I tried it, you know.

[Caroline]

You tried.

[Grant Ellis]

You win some, you lose some.

[Nick]

Overall, just. You happy you said yes to this experience?

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, I'm very happy. I'm very happy. I learned a lot about myself, and, you know, the outcome was. I'm happy with.

[Caroline]

When you released Party Girls.

[Grant Ellis]

Great song.

[Caroline]

Great song.

[Nick]

Great song.

[Grant Ellis]

First of all, listen, there's mixed reviews, but I. I did it because that's how I was feeling.

[Nick]

Did the. Did the producers. Did they know you were gonna.

[Grant Ellis]

No, I just did it. I. I went rogue. I went, you know. You know something. The original idea was, you know, because love and music are synonymous, so there was going to be, like, a story for each episode with each woman, and night one was a party, you know, but then they said no. Yeah. Immediately I got so much backlash. I was like, pull that in. Like, it's not. Don't do it. I'm like, oh. I mean, that's. That's me.

[Nick]

It's good, man.

[Grant Ellis]

Like, that's my personality, you know? Like, I. I'm creative. I like to have fun, and love doesn't have to look one way. It's not linear.

[Nick]

We got to make that a bop this summer. I think you should lean in when you get done to that end, obviously, you know, I know when I say, what's next? And you're going to be like, I'm going to focus on love and, like, going back to normal and blah, blah. But, like, listen, this is an incredible opportunity. You were gifted. I had turned that opportunity into what I'm doing now. It opened up a lot of doors for me. Like, this experience does give you incredible access. Right, Right. So, like, all the, you know, fans and, like, pressuring you into, like, not talking about this opportunity, because I think you can both be serious about finding love and take advantage of this gift that you were given. Like, what would you like to do next? And how would you like to use this opportunity? And you don't get to say, give back.

[Grant Ellis]

No, no, no.

[Nick]

Like, yes, you will give back. I am sure you will donate your time and you will use it for good. But selfishly, what do you want to do with this experience and how would you like to. To. To. To. To utilize it?

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, I think in love, there's a whole. Like, obviously, the. The Bachelor has a very. They have an audience that's been with them for so long. I think that on the other side, there's people that. That see it a little differently, you know? So in my creative mind, I'm like, okay, well, how could you kind of be the host of a show where you matchmake, you know? So I came up with this concept. It's called Spin the Block. It would be a woman or a lady who would be the prize. And then a man who ne. Maybe needed. Needs an upgrade, he would come to her. She has a choice to say, like, okay, would you. Would you want to date this guy? No. He has a chance to spend the day with me, being me. And then I would, you know, teach him how to dress, teach him how to talk. You know, maybe I'll teach him how to.

[Nick]

This is a TV show.

[Grant Ellis]

No, like a. Like a YouTube series. But it would have to be obviously approved. But. And then after that, after. You ever seen Hitch?

[Natalie]

Yep.

[Grant Ellis]

It would be me playing the role of Hitch. And then after that, he comes back, and then if they like each other after he, quote, unquote, spun the block, it would, you know, you should ask.

[Nick]

For evidence and not permission.

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, yeah, but obviously I gotta. I gotta see what. But that's just a concept, you know, so something like that.

[Nick]

You're obviously a creative person and you're in your. And your creativity has. Has talent behind it. So that's a fun idea. I hit, man. Like, I trial. And what if. If that doesn't work out, man, just keep swinging, keep trying things. I was roller skating, doing shirtless Bob Ross paintings. I was. I was trying. Trying all, man, like, you try it. Yeah, you gotta. You gotta figure it out.

[Grant Ellis]

Figure it out. And I think. I think that has a cultural relevance to it. You know, like I said to. That's a saying that people say in. In culture. Like, I'm gonna spin the block. It's something that. It's culturally relevant, and it may be open to a different audience that sees love a little differently than what's presented on the Bachelor.

[Nick]

Well, that's awesome, man. Well, very excited to see how things play out for you, whoever you end up with. It sounds like you have some great women at the end. And wait, wait, one more question.

[Grant Ellis]

Go ahead, ask away.

[Nick]

How nervous are you to talk to your runner up?

[Grant Ellis]

I'm not nervous. I think that obviously I'm gonna have to answer to some things, which is. That's normal. But I lay with my heart and I laid it out there, and you can't go wrong as long as you're honest. And as long as you put it all out there, so I'm not nervous.

[Nick]

Do you anticipate hurt feelings?

[Grant Ellis]

I do. I do. I mean, I would be hurt, you know.

[Nick]

Have you made any contact whatsoever with that person since filming?

[Grant Ellis]

No, I didn't. And the reason being, and just out of respect for everybody, I just don't feel like it's. I don't think it's the right thing. I think that, you know, things will be answered on that day.

[Nick]

To your knowledge, are Jules and Latia close?

[Grant Ellis]

I'm not sure. I'm not sure, you know.

Okay.

[Nick]

All right. Grant, it's been fun talking to you, man. Wish you the best of luck. Excited to see if you are with someone. I anticipate that you might be and excited to see who that is. And, you know, selfishly, I do hope you run up a little pissed so.

[Grant Ellis]

That we can, like, get grilled at that some drama.

[Nick]

But, like, listen, man like you, you. You should be really proud of how you handle yourself. You were an exceptional bachelor. I think so. And, you know, congratulations on. On your journey and excited to see how it ends.

[Grant Ellis]

Means a lot coming from you, Nick. I appreciate. Appreciate it, man. For real.

[Nick]

All right, buddy.

[Grant Ellis]

Thank you, guys. Thank you.

[Nick]

Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Thank you to our guest, Ingrid Andres and Grant Ellis. So much fun talking to both of them. Be sure to join us tomorrow for a very electric and awesome going deeper with one of the finalists from Traders. It's definitely going to be the person you want to hear from the most. I promise you that. Also, if you haven't listened to Tuesday's reality recap, Taylor and Green was with us along with Carolyn from Traders. It was a wild and wacky episode. Be sure to check that out as well. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye. You are no dummy, but you're kind of acting like one. You used to crush it in school, outsmarting opponents on the field. And now, well, you're still smart, but not exactly challenging yourself. You could be advancing nuclear engineering in the world's most powerful Navy. You were born for it. So make the smart choice. You can be smart or you could be nuke smart. Become a nuclear [e-mail] nukesmart America's Navy forged by the sea. Who's ready to level up their mental fitness and win the second of the day? Well, at least that's my goal. Join me Mark Champagne on Behind the Human, a podcast where I dive into the stories and practices of extraordinary individuals, from billionaires to Olympians and cultural icons. Like Tony Hawk, each episode unveils the pathways in the mental fitness strategies that propel them to the top. Now available on all major podcast platforms, here's Thriving Minds.