E901 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History

Summary

Detailed Summary of "The Viall Files" Episode E901: "Ask Nick - My Boyfriend's Search History"

Release Date: March 17, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode E901 of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall, alongside co-hosts Natalie Joy and the Household, delves into two pressing relationship issues brought forward by listeners. The episode focuses on navigating trust and communication challenges within romantic relationships and dealing with difficult in-law dynamics. Through empathetic conversations and practical advice, Nick and his team aim to provide clarity and support to those seeking guidance.

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Segment 1: Caitlin's Concern About Her Boyfriend's Search History

Caller Profile:

• Name: Caitlin
• Age: 24
• Issue: Possible porn addiction of her boyfriend

Story Overview: Caitlin reached out seeking advice after accidentally discovering her boyfriend's extensive porn search history. Over a span of ten days, she found that he accessed 20 to 50 pornographic links daily on his laptop [04:25]. Feeling concerned about the frequency and volume, Caitlin initially approached the subject lightly by joking about the need to clear his browser history [05:24]. However, realizing the seriousness of the situation, she texted him directly to discuss his past mention of having a porn addiction during his teenage years [05:57].

Key Points Discussed:

• Frequency of Consumption: Caitlin observed that her boyfriend watched porn nearly every day, which raised red flags for her [04:27].
• Emotional Impact: The discovery led to feelings of distrust and questioned her perception of him [08:32].
• Communication Breakdown: The confrontation escalated tensions, leading her boyfriend to take a step back and express discomfort about her snooping [09:54].

Advice and Insights:

• Norms and Misconceptions: Nick acknowledged that male masturbation and porn consumption can be common behaviors and not inherently problematic unless they interfere with daily life or relationships [07:20].
• Apologizing for Snooping: He emphasized the importance of apologizing for invading his privacy, recognizing that snooping can damage trust [05:21].
• Open Communication: Encouraged Caitlin to foster open, non-judgmental conversations about their sexual relationship to bridge any gaps [22:36].
• Balancing Intimacy: Highlighted the need to balance individual sexual needs within the relationship, ensuring both partners feel satisfied and connected [24:30].

Notable Quotes:

• Charlie: "I think porn affects brains negatively. I don't even think that's an opinion. I think it's like a scientific fact." [18:14]
• Charlie: "Listen, it's too readily accessible these days. It's too available." [08:32]

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Segment 2: Brittany's Struggle with a 'Monster In-Law'

Caller Profile:

• Name: Brittany
• Age: 39
• Issue: Dealing with a difficult mother-in-law who lives next door

Story Overview: Brittany sought advice regarding ongoing conflicts with her mother-in-law, whom she describes as a "monster." The tension began during the holiday season when family members from different countries stayed with her in-laws. Disagreements over household rules and favoritism towards certain grandchildren led to heated arguments [31:55]. Attempts to communicate and resolve these issues via text resulted in aggressive and accusatory responses, further straining the relationship [35:20].

Key Points Discussed:

• Favoritism and Rules Enforcement: Brittany felt her mother-in-law was favoring certain grandchildren, leading to feelings of neglect and unfair treatment towards her own children [32:43].
• Failed Communication Attempts: Texting her mother-in-law to address the issues resulted in negative and unconstructive feedback, escalating the conflict [35:20].
• Impact on Family Dynamics: The strained relationship began affecting mutual friendships and causing emotional distress for Brittany and her husband [66:08].

Advice and Insights:

• Setting Boundaries: Nick advised Brittany to establish clear boundaries with her mother-in-law, prioritizing her immediate family's well-being [43:55].
• Maintaining Civility: Emphasized the importance of remaining civil and avoiding confrontational interactions to prevent further escalation [45:26].
• Writing a Letter: Suggested that Brittany and her husband consider writing a heartfelt letter to communicate their feelings and decisions, aiming for closure and reducing ongoing drama [56:20].
• Protecting the Marriage: Stressed the need to prioritize the marital relationship, supporting each other in the face of external conflicts [83:05].

Notable Quotes:

• Charlie: "You have to bite your lip, be the bigger person, and try to figure this out with her." [57:06]
• Charlie: "The glue is the partner. If there's any in-law conflict, then I think the spouse is playing a role in that conflict." [48:06]

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Viall Files, Nick Viall and his co-hosts provided compassionate and practical advice to Caitlin and Brittany as they navigate complex relationship challenges. The discussions underscored the importance of trust, open communication, setting boundaries, and prioritizing personal relationships amidst external pressures. By addressing issues head-on and fostering respectful dialogues, listeners can better manage and resolve conflicts within their own lives.

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Key Takeaways:

• Trust and Privacy: Invading a partner's privacy can severely damage trust; it's crucial to approach sensitive topics with respect and openness.
• Effective Communication: Honest and non-judgmental discussions about relationship concerns can bridge understanding and strengthen bonds.
• Boundary Setting: Establishing and maintaining boundaries with extended family members is essential for protecting one's immediate family dynamics.
• Prioritizing Relationships: Focusing on the core relationship—whether romantic or familial—helps in navigating and resolving conflicts effectively.

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Note: Advertisements and non-content segments have been excluded to focus solely on the primary discussions and advice provided during the episode.

Transcript

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[Charlie]

You're crazy. How's it going?

[Caitlin]

Hi, my name is Lily and I'm 24 years old.

[Charlie]

How can I help Lily?

[Caitlin]

I am just wondering how to handle my boyfriend's possible porn addiction.

[Charlie]

Okay, when you say possible, what do you mean by possible? And I guess when you say handle, what do you mean by handle?

[Caitlin]

Like yeah, so possible. Just because I don't know what a porn addiction looks like. So I don't know. I'm not, you know, a therapist. It's not a confirmed porn addiction.

[Charlie]

Okay, well, neither am I and I don't know okay necessarily what one looks like. But to your knowledge, how much porn.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

Is your boyfriend consuming?

[Caitlin]

To my knowledge I have. I snooped a little on his computer. It was an accidental happen upon situation. And then I snooped a little bit deeper into his history. I think I looked at maybe like the previous 10 days of his history and I think out of the 10, nine days he watched porn and it was kind of the amount that was concerning. So I would say there was like 20 to 50 links or videos on each day.

[Charlie]

Gotcha. I don't know that. And that's all you know though?

[Caitlin]

Yeah, that's all I know I did. We have spoken about it, so there's a little more.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Caitlin]

Story that I wrote in.

[Charlie]

Did you. So yeah, I guess my question, did you confront him or speak to him about this or.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, yeah, I did and I will say confront loosely. I don't think I did a very good job at like bringing it up.

[Charlie]

How did you.

[Caitlin]

I think I could have done better.

[Charlie]

How did you bring it up?

[Caitlin]

I brought it up in kind of like a light hearted context. So I think it was a couple days after I stumbled across this. I just was kind of joking around with him and I told him that he needs to start clearing his laptop history. And so he obviously knew what I meant by that and we kind of just like joked about it and that I wasn't going to plan on bringing it up further but I kind of sat with it and I was like, no, that's concerning. I will bring this up further. And so I actually texted him and I have the text if you want.

[Charlie]

Sure, yeah.

[Caitlin]

So I just asked him, I just said, can I ask a follow up question about our porn conversation that is just on my brain now? And he said sure. And I just said, you mentioned the other day that you used to have a porn problem. I'm just wondering if that's still a thing because he had mentioned to me that when he was like a teenager he had like a porn. Porn addiction. At least his mom classified it as a porn addiction. So I'm, I didn't dive too deep into that. I'm assuming that he was watching it like every day and had a problem.

[Charlie]

Okay. I don't. Mom's probably the worst person. I mean I know I could picture a mom seeing their son watching porn and being like, oh my God. Porn addiction. You're addicted to porn?

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Caitlin]

Like even just one time.

[Charlie]

Yeah. Have you ever, do you ever watch Seinfeld? You're probably. I, I know you're only 24, but.

[Caitlin]

Like I've seen Seinfeld.

[Charlie]

There's this famous episode called the Contest, ok, where the, they, they all get together and they compete to see who can withhold masturbating the longest. And this group of friends has three men and one woman, Elaine Being the woman. And there was a joke by Kramer and she's like, a women masturbate. And Kramer goes, not every day. I only bring that up because most young adult men, or most, you know, men in that aren't, you know, over the hill, it's not uncommon for them to masturbate on a regular basis.

[Caitlin]

Right.

[Charlie]

And a lot of men out there will use porn to masturbate. And I'm not familiar with your boyfriend or porn he likes or how he goes about watching porn, et cetera, et cetera.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

But it wouldn't be uncommon to pop open the phone or the laptop and search for something that might pique their interest. And that could explain why, you know, at any given day, there's a handful of links because he's, like, popping in, popping out, taking a look. Yeah. If that's what's going on, that's. I'm not in a position to diagnose any of that. I. Listen, it's. It's. I've. I've watched porn. Porn, I do think is. Is a thing out there. Like, when I talk about hookup culture, it's like, I've particured. I participated in hookup culture. I've watched porn. I still think, like, yeah, I mean, there's. It's too readily accessible these days. It's too available. I do think it's a. It's affected young men drastically. You know, when I was younger, when I was a kid, we used to, like, sneak over to the one or two friends whose dads bought Playboys, you know, and then, like, one of the parents might have had this, like, porn video that you'd pop in. It just wasn't accessible as it is today.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

And I think as a result, you're seeing a lot of young men discover and be. And get used to utilizing porn way too much, way too frequently. That being said, yeah, I would be curious, what did your boyfriend respond to when, you know, he brought that up and what was his answer? And did he think he had one? Like, what was the, you know, what. What was his answer?

[Caitlin]

Well, yeah, it kind of escalated to a different level that I wasn't expecting, because I think he was very upset that I, like, went through his history. So I think that it kind of escalated in a way that I just kind of made me look at him different, which is kind of what I wanted your opinion on. He ended up saying, I do watch porn. I don't think I'm problematic. I just don't clear my history. And I was like, you Know what? Fair enough. I do, too. Here and there. The frequency was slightly alarming, but I don't know what's normal, so, you know, that's that. And he said, I guess I don't either. And that was the end of the conversation. And then he ended up messaging me later and just saying, like, did you go through the search bar or did you go through my history? And I said, like, yes, I'm sorry. I do feel weird about that. Like, you know, invasion of privacy, whatever. And then he said he feels very uncomfortable and that he was super upset and he needed a while to take a step back from it before speaking with me.

[Charlie]

How long ago was that?

[Caitlin]

Probably almost a month ago.

[Charlie]

Where are you now?

[Caitlin]

So he took a little time. I mean, he messaged me, like, that night, and he sent me, like, a long paragraph just saying how this is where it escalates, how he has felt disrespected and disregarded by many things I've done in our relationship, and this is just one of them. And that's kind of where it turned into, like, something bigger.

[Charlie]

Okay. Did he elaborate on those other things?

[Caitlin]

Yeah. Well, I ended up. We, like, talked. We texted a little bit. I said, if there's things you notice about me that are bothering you, I have no way of knowing unless, you know, you talk to me about it. And we ended up, like, speaking on the phone, and he just had really nothing to say. I feel like he just kind of wanted to, like, make me feel bad for snooping, and he was embarrassed, so he wanted to, like, put it back on me maybe.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Caitlin]

And I feel like he. I feel like he does that in a lot of our arguments.

[Charlie]

Okay, back to the porn conversation.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

And to be clear, this whole, like, past alleged addiction, it sounds to me that's less of him saying, yeah, I used to have a problem. And I had this other very similar but different experience where not my girlfriend caught me, but my mom caught me and really embarrassed me about, like, the porn I was watching, or did he actually have one to your knowledge?

[Caitlin]

To my knowledge, he used the words I used to have a porn addiction verbatim. I don't know what he meant by that. I didn't ask, you know, a lot of questions. He was, like, a teenager. I feel like a lot of teenage boys probably watch a lot of porn.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Caitlin]

And so I was like, that seems, you know, kind of normal, but addiction is, you know, obviously a little bit further.

[Charlie]

What about your sex life with him?

[Caitlin]

It's good. I do feel like I have been the more sexual one in our relationship.

[Charlie]

Okay.

[Caitlin]

Which is also another point of the conversation, is I didn't realize my boyfriend was that sexual because he just isn't as sexual with me.

[Charlie]

See, I think that's a bit of a problem.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, well, that's why I was, like, concerned about the porn, is because I'm like, I didn't know that you were feeling sexy every day. Like, this is news to me.

[Charlie]

Well, I don't know how it is for women.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

But I think masturbating for men is very different than having sex.

[Caitlin]

I agree.

[Charlie]

You know, so. You know, and I do think sometimes when. When women catch their male partners masturbating, there's kind of this, like, really, you'd rather do this than have, like. Than be with me, than have sex with me, than yada yada. And I think to a certain point, that's a valid question if you were to feel that way, you know, but it's. I think it's all a balance. I think for some men, or maybe women too, but I've less experience or no experience. I think it can be, like a stress relief. It can be just like something to totally clear. Clear your head, things like that. Yeah. So listen, I. I think it was wrong for you to go through his laptop. I think you know that, right? You know? Yeah, yeah, fine. You had a moment of weakness. And I can't speak to this past porn addiction that he acknowledged or how deep that went. I mean, the fact that his mom is a part of that conversation and, like, she caught him or something, that would be really embarrassing for any young man for sure. And not too much differently. Similarly embarrassing to have your girlfriend catch you. I mean, I don't know if you've looked at any of those titles, but there's some weird fucking titles for porn out there. And there's this weird porn in general, and I don't think most guys are, like, paying attention all that to it. It's just like, click here. What do they look like? What's going on? I don't think there's that much thought going into it. I don't think it's a big deal that your boyfriend masturbates every day. And I don't like. No, I don't think it's a big deal that he would necessarily watch porn to masturbate at the same time. Listen, I think porn affects brains negatively. I don't even think that's an opinion. I think it's like a scientific fact. And like any. Any. Whether it's yeah, whether it's drinking, whether it's smoking weed and smoking cigarettes, whatever, you know, like, listen, we all have our vices, so to speak, but the question is, can we have healthy relationships with them, Right? You know, short of you catching your boyfriend, like, watching porn even when he's, like, not masturbating or just like, you know, that would be weird, you know, but if, yeah, if this is really just when he masturbates, like, I think that's more. I'm again, not a therapist, but that doesn't sound like necessarily an addiction or a problem. It's just more like it could be like a personal ick of yours, but, like, what you saw on his laptop versus what the reality of the situation is. Based on what you're telling me, there's a good chance you saw something you probably shouldn't have saw. You shouldn't have snooped. And the appearance of what you saw looked way worse than the reality of what it is. And I'm basing on the fact that let's assume your boyfriend masturbates on a. On a. On a daily basis. And let's assume that when he masturbates, he's usually consuming porn. That, that. That would explain the search history that you saw.

[Caitlin]

Right?

[Charlie]

And if that is all he's doing is whipping up the laptop for six minutes a day and watching, you know, a few seconds here lands on one. You know, I don't know. It probably doesn't take them all that long to complete the task. You know what I'm saying? He's. He's probably, you know, if you were had the benefit of watch time, it would probably. Minimal. Okay, but that's assuming that's the truth. I don't know. Like, I don't know if he's sitting down and, and just watching these. That, that would be. But I also don't even know what classifies a porn addiction. I don't know. You know?

[Caitlin]

Well, and that was my concern too, is because I. I don't care if my partner watches porn. I do. I don't care if my partner masturbates. I do. Those are not concerns of mine. It was more so like, just what I saw would make it seem like he was sitting there for like two hours a day watching porn.

[Charlie]

Did you look at, like, time stamps? Was that available?

[Caitlin]

No, I didn't click on anything. There was no time stamps. And I didn't want to, like, investigate further. I was just. So many links every day, which. Maybe he's around.

[Charlie]

I think he's Bob. Trying to find. I've cleared, you know, my search history before, and I think sometimes it. It could, you know, it.

[Caitlin]

It's extensive.

[Charlie]

If you. It's. Yeah. It doesn't take much for a couple clicks to, like, get all this kind of registers. Even though, like, you didn't, like, really even watch.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

Them per se. That's. It's definitely a possible explanation. You know, I don't. Okay. Yes, I. The fact that you saw it multiple days in a row and you saw several videos, I don't think means he's actually watching these all the way through on a regular. It might just. It might just mean he's masturbating every day.

[Caitlin]

Yeah. Which is fine. I feel like that's not even a bad thing. You know, it could be considered healthy, so it doesn't bother me.

[Charlie]

Well, how often are you guys hooking up, like, having sex?

[Caitlin]

Probably, like, three times a week, I would say on, like, average.

[Charlie]

Okay.

[Caitlin]

Which is pretty good. I mean, we don't live together, so I feel like it's.

[Charlie]

It's pretty good normal. How old is he?

[Caitlin]

He's 25.

[Charlie]

Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty solid. It's pretty. Pretty good. Where are you guys now as a couple?

[Caitlin]

We're doing well. I mean, this was, like, a month ago, and I don't know, we're just doing well. I feel like we're, like, growing together and we're happy together and our sex life is good. Even though I am the more sexual person, it doesn't, you know, make it.

[Charlie]

Too difficult when you're saying you're more sexual. What do you mean by that? Why do you feel that way?

[Caitlin]

I just think that I would like to have sex every time I see him, if I could. That would be, like, my preferred. He is more like, I just want to chill sometimes, which is fine.

[Charlie]

And you've communicated this with him?

[Caitlin]

Yeah, we've talked about it, but we also. I mean, sometimes there's, you know, like, periods of time where maybe he's a little more sexual, just depending on the moment.

[Charlie]

Have you apologized for snooping?

[Caitlin]

Yes. Yes. I. I don't know if I could have said sorry more. I. I did apologize. You know, I was like, I know that was very wrong. Like, I don't ever plan on doing that again, and I am very sorry. Like, that was an invasion of privacy. When we spoke on the phone, I apologized a few times about.

[Charlie]

Did you apologize for making him feel shame and judged?

[Caitlin]

Yes, I did. I. I think I said, like, I did not mean to, you know, make you feel judged at all. I was just, you know, it was on my brain, and I felt like I needed to talk to you about it or it wasn't going to go away.

[Charlie]

What did he say? Well, like, how did he take that?

[Caitlin]

He was just fine about it. I. I don't. I feel like our conversation escalated into a much larger issue than the porn. Like, it got derailed into something different where he got, you know, very defensive, I would say, just because I think he was feeling embarrassed and maybe like, I was judging him.

[Charlie]

Do you feel. Is he still doing that?

[Caitlin]

I think that over the course of our relationship, that is something that I've noticed a few times when we have an issue. This was probably just the biggest time that that happened.

[Charlie]

Okay, well, listen, I. Yeah, I. I'm not in a position to diagnose your boyfriend. All I can offer is what I said is that based on what you're telling me, I do think there is an explanation that's very believable that doesn't necessarily suggest that he's addicted to porn. But we're. We are making a lot of assumptions. But other than this instance, you know, I think if he really had a problem, it would. It would be easy to notice.

[Caitlin]

Yeah. It would show in other areas, I'm sure.

[Charlie]

Yeah. You know, whether. Whether it's too much or more common than it should be. And you can make a strong argument that, like, porn is a problem in our society, given how successful it is. But I don't think your boyfriend is probably operating any different than most men his age are.

[Caitlin]

Okay. See, that's the tough thing is I just. Being a woman, I'm like, I have no idea how often these men are watching porn. So it makes me feel better hearing that that's probably common.

[Charlie]

I'm basing this off the assumption that he's only doing this if he's masturbating.

[Caitlin]

Yeah. And he's not.

[Charlie]

And it's just like computer for hours at a time. That. Then. That. Yeah, that would be. If. If he. If your boyfriend's sitting down for an hour just watching porn on a regular basis, I would think that would be a little too much. But it's definitely possible that all he's doing is browsing, looking for some inspiration.

[Caitlin]

Right.

[Charlie]

Yeah. And then. Listen, listen. I don't know, like, if I were you, without trying, you know me, I don't think it's all that bad to find the right time to say again, like, I. I really sorry for making. Sorry for making you feel that way. I should not have done that. And in fact, I want us to. The last person I want to be is someone that you feel uncomfortable when it comes to sex or talking about sex or even porn. Like, if you want to be a freak, I want to be a freak with you or whatever. I don't know. Like, I'm assuming, like, you want to, you know. Right. You probably want to share things with him and make him feel comfortable, you know, not. You don't want him to look at you the same way he looks at his mom, which is like this kind of like, shame and like, oh, I can't believe my mom knows I watch porn. You know, it's like, yeah, you know, and I think there are girlfriends out there who like, kind of have a zero talents when it comes to porn, you know, for a variety of different reasons. You know, maybe they had a. An ex boyfriend who watched too much and it's triggering for them or maybe, you know, come from a community or religion that feels a certain way about it. But you sound, you know, you've mentioned that you want to have a more sexual relationship with your boyfriend. Have you guys ever talked about fantasies and things like that?

[Caitlin]

Not. I mean, we're kind of new, so not to like a crazy extent.

[Charlie]

How new are you guys?

[Caitlin]

We've been dating for like six months. So not super new, but still learning about each other's, you know, sexual appetite.

[Charlie]

So maybe you just say something. Listen, I wouldn't force it, but if it's, you know, it sounds like you already dealt with it, but, like, maybe there's a time in the future to just say, you know, I know I kind of violated your trust and made you feel really judged. And I hope, you know, again, I am sorry, but, like, honestly, like, what I regret most about that is that I want to talk about our interests with each other. You know, I want to know what you're into. Like, I don't. I don't even care. I don't care that you watch porn. I know. I think I was just a little. Not to like, re. Litigate it, but, like, caught off guard. You talking about the past? I shouldn't have looked. That was my bad. And yeah, I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure, you know, whatever, but see if you get him to open up. I don't know, because I think part of it too is, like, he's a relative. It's a relatively new relationship. Right. I don't. I think in general, I think a lot of guys don't know how Their. How their girlfriends feel about porn or about them watching porn. Right.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

Porn in general is something. As we grow up, we're used to having to hide it, you know, not get caught. Right. There's a lot of, you know, and again, there are a lot of negative aspects of porn. So you snooping on his computer has kind of put you closer in his mind to his mom than you want to be.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

And so, yeah, give it some time, but, like, try to find the moments where you invite the conversation, and basically, you're. The message you're trying to convey to your boyfriend is conversations around sex. I want to be the person you feel the most comfortable talking about. And I. And likewise with you, you know, you opening up to him.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, well, I think we are.

[Charlie]

I definitely didn't. You know, and I would say. And just. But I would say me going through your computer and asking you that question in the context I asked, like, was the opposite of trying to get to that place. You say that to him and acknowledge that and see where it goes.

[Caitlin]

Okay. And I think we are, you know, very open and comfortable with each other and with, you know, sexual conversation. So I don't think it'll be too difficult to do.

[Charlie]

Yeah, but you definitely don't want, like, listen. But the. The reality is, is porn has and can replace sex in someone's relationship. And I think there are people out there in relationship with people who have gotten too into porn where they feel like their partner has disconnected with them, you know, or they're. They're watching porn and masturbate in lieu of having sex with their partner and having that intimacy. You guys are relatively young, so, you know, I don't think it's. I don't think three times a week is, like, groundbreaking, but it's a. It's a good number. And, yeah, he. He could just be, like, tired and, like, trust me, you don't want. You don't want him masturbating to be the same as him having sex with you.

[Brittany]

Very true.

[Charlie]

Because that is effortless and very short. Yeah. So, you know, it's not like a this or that in his mind, that I can promise you. And I think that is definitely a big misconception among women out there. But, you know, again, I'm all people notice, like, to masturbate, so just put yourself in your shoes, you know, type of thing.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

So is this helpful?

[Caitlin]

I appreciate your opinion. Yes, it was helpful because, I mean. Yeah, you just never know. So it's good to hear from a male perspective, especially because you know, us women aren't sure.

[Charlie]

Yeah, I mean, keep paying attention, be vigilant. You know, I don't think that means snooping. I don't think that means consciously looking over your shoulder.

[Caitlin]

I'm not a snooper. I don't ever want to snoop again.

[Charlie]

But if something pops up, you know, at least note it. You know, like, again, if he really has a problem.

[Caitlin]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

You'll see it.

[Caitlin]

It'll present itself.

[Charlie]

Yeah, but.

[Caitlin]

All right, well, yeah, that was helpful and I appreciate your advice.

[Charlie]

Okay. All right, well, good luck. Keep us posted. Let us know.

[Brittany]

Thank you.

[Charlie]

You know what, What. What direction this goes, but, yeah, just try to. It's an opportunity to keep the conversation going about sex and intimacy with him and. And kind of right that wrong for sure. Okay.

[Caitlin]

All right. Thank you.

[Charlie]

All right. Take care.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, you too.

[Charlie]

Bye. Bye.

[Caitlin]

Bye.

[Charlie]

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[Unnamed Friend]

Hi, I'm Caitlin. I'm 29 years old and I wanted to ask you how to deal with my monster in law that lives next door.

[Charlie]

Okay. What makes her a monster in law?

[Unnamed Friend]

So to give some background, me and my husband have been together since we were in high school. So we're high school sweethearts. I've known her for a long time. She's always been kind of difficult to deal with and things kind of blew up over the holidays. It was December 23rd, me and her had an argument. There was a lot of family in town and he had family that moved here last year from a different country that was staying with my in laws. And we just didn't like the treatment of them. Obviously with them living next door we were kind of picking up a lot of the slack and kind of helping them. We were driving them around and stuff like that to different appointment, just helping his cousins out that had just moved here and things got messy in their home quick at my in laws house with these new cousins. And so that's how the argument on the 23rd started was about the treatment of these cousins. And there, there's been several things but it ended up being my mother in law at one point said something like, well, I'm not taking advice from someone that doesn't even come over here. And so that's when I blew up.

[Charlie]

But the be Claire, these cousins were at your mother in law's house and you had a problem with what she was doing?

[Unnamed Friend]

Yes. So they moved here from a different country and they were living with my in laws.

[Charlie]

Okay, and what was the problem you had?

[Unnamed Friend]

So the rules that they were setting on them, I mean it gets messy quick when you live with people. But like they couldn't park in the driveway and they have a four car driveway. So my mother in law and in law were purposely parking back to back so that his cousins couldn't park there. And so it kind of caused an issue with like them parking in front of our mailbox because they couldn't park in the driveway. And I had no fault to like them because they're really Good people. But it was causing issues with us and my in laws.

[Charlie]

Why? How is that causing issues?

[Unnamed Friend]

Just the treatment of them. It's like we had to pick up the slack so they didn't have a car, so we were driving them around to appointments. So that's what the argument started about. But then it turned into more of the treatment of myself and my kids. And I feel like our kids get treated different than some of the other grandkids. So that's where it. That's the direction that it went in after she said that I don't come over to her home. And then it was kind of like, well, these are the reasons why I don't come over. And so it went off in that direction.

[Charlie]

Is this something that's been an ongoing problem or is this something that kind of snowballed this Christmas holiday and has been an issue ever since?

[Unnamed Friend]

I mean, the treatment towards me has been since I've known her. And it's not just me, it's a lot of people in the family.

[Charlie]

Okay.

[Unnamed Friend]

That's just how she is, my mother in law. But that's been going on since I've known her. And I kind of just swept it under the rug. I would complain to my husband about it and never say anything to her about it. So she didn't know I felt this way about her. And then I noticed that she was taking some of the other grandkids out more, buying them all these toys. There was like different rules in her homes for. In her home for different grandkids. And so I noticed the treatment of not just my kids, but all the other grandkids, except for these two other grandkids.

[Charlie]

All right, so when you called in, you were asked, like, how do I deal with my monster in law that lives next door? What, what is dealing with it, like, look like to you? Like, what. What kind of resolution are you looking for?

[Unnamed Friend]

So right now we're not speaking. I've only seen her twice since Christmas Eve. And I guess my thing is, like, I've just come to terms with like, she's not gonna change, but I don't know what to do in the future, like, when my kids want to go over there. Because right now it's cold outside. So, like when it warms up and they're in the backyard, my daughter will say, I want to go over to Nana's. So I'm expecting that to happen. But I'm not really sure, like, how to move forward. I actually reached out to her on the 26th. So the day after Christmas, I sent her a message and said, we need to sit down and talk. Didn't receive a response. Sent another one the following day, also didn't receive a response. And then about a week or so went by and I received a this huge message from her saying that I'm manipulative, I'm a selfish person. And so.

[Charlie]

Is that exactly what it said?

[Unnamed Friend]

She said not to respond. Oh, yeah, I can like, read the messages.

[Charlie]

Yeah, sure.

[Unnamed Friend]

Okay. So on December 26, I sent her hello. At some point, we need to talk to work out our differences because we will be in each other's lives and the kids lives. However, in the meantime, I don't think it's right to take your anger out. Out for me on the children. They're just kids and they have nothing to do with the drama. When my daughter tried to hug you at Christmas, you ignored her. Then you gave. I don't want to say their names. My three nieces, the same dresses and not my daughter. I don't mind if you have a problem with me, but please don't do things to hurt my kids because you're mad at me. It's not right and it's not fair to them and it only furthers the idea that you favor my niece is over my daughter. Let us know when you're available. And then I messaged her again the next day. Hello again. We need to schedule some time to sit down and have a conversation about this situation in the past. When we have arguments that never gets resolved and we move on and act like nothing happened, that is not healthy and it just adds more resentment. Okay, so this is the next day, December 27, says, hello again. We need to schedule some time to sit down and have a conversation about the situation in the past. When we have arguments, it never gets resolved and we move on and act like nothing happened. This is not healthy and just adds more resentment. Over the years, you have treated me poorly and I let it go and did not express my feelings. Now that it involves my children, I cannot let it continue. If you're gonna ignore this situation and we are not going to talk about it, then for my mental health, I have to move on. I cry every weekend because of the treatment you have towards me and my kids. I cannot be the best mom to them if I'm upset. I want you and my kids to have a good relationship. I want you and your son to have a good relationship. I want to have a good relationship with you. That's why I'm trying to fix this and work These issues out. I want to know what I've done to you. I'm always nice to you. I always hold things in instead of saying them to you. If it can't be a healthy relationship, then it is easier to end it than allow my kids to be treated like that. Going forward, it is not right for my daughter to ask me why you are not there. I have to lie to her her and tell her you are working. She's old enough to notice those things. These are not just one incident. This has been going on for years. There are several incidents. I think you have trauma that you've never dealt with, and I feel bad for that. I know people who are hurting on the inside, hurt others. I want to work this out. When are you available to talk?

[Charlie]

All right. And then she responds, I love my children on the same level. They are just innocent and lovely kids. You also was telling me to my face. I'm. I'm paraphrasing that we never take care of you and your husband when he lost his job. Please don't forget who paid for your mortgage, food, and bills when that happened. I'm feeling bad reminding you this, but I don't think that we did all this because we don't love your family. And please never again say that we have never asking you for money. This is another fake. What is she referring to?

[Unnamed Friend]

So that was one thing I brought up on Christmas Eve, which had nothing to do. I was so heated in the moment, and I was like, you guys have never helped us. When he lost his job two years ago, like, we had to get mortgage assistance and stuff. And the only person that helped was my dad. And there was a time when before we even had kids, that they offered to pay our mortgage as like a gift. And that was that. That was years ago. So that had nothing to do with what I had brought up, but she brought it up to counter that. So that's what she's talking about. There was a lot of things said that I shouldn't have said, had nothing to do with the argument. But I just got so mad that I brought up several things.

[Charlie]

Gotcha. Well, listen, I mean, my big takeaway of this message is obviously she's. I don't know, she feels a certain way. I'm sure it was with the best intentions. But you saying things like, I think you have past trauma that you haven't dealt with and hurt people. Hurt people. I guarantee you she did not take that that well. And I don't know if you said that to deliberately hurt her. Feelings because sometimes we say things like that sound nice and it's a kind of a little bitchy because we know it'll hurt their feelings. I guess you have to sometimes ask when you're. First of all, texts like this are never great because they can be interpreted any way they want. And two, you have to be very careful about your messaging when you send a text message because they're going to cherry pick what they, they read, you know, and your message, I think at first it came with, hey, I want to fix this, we're going to be in each other's lives, I want to, I want to fix this type of thing. And then by the end it was more like you accusing her of stuff and telling her what she needs to do differently, etc. Etc. She clearly doesn't see it that way. You know, her whole part about like paying for stuff, I don't know, I mean, I'm sure that's like her justifying. Even if she, she paid for the mortgage and helped you guys out financially, I assume that came from a loyalty to her son and not necessarily out of love for you. I imagine that's how you feel about that. And so that really wouldn't explain, as far as you're concerned, why you feel like she treats you a little bit differently. Because that. Right, that's what you're saying, right? She has. It's not often even like obvious or like in your face. It's just more like subtle little things that you just feel like a disconnect between you and your mother in law. I think the best way to deal with this is to not make a bad situation worse. And I get the impression that's what you do, right? Like stay out of your mother in law's business if it doesn't have to do with you or your kids. I would start there, Right. I would not insert yourself and tell her, the mother of your husband, what she is. I, I just. Parents don't take kindly to that, you know, like at some point you were just some girl girl, right, that your, your husband went to high school with and he brought you home and you're like, here's this girl, whatever. And in that moment she had all the power and all the authority over your husband and you know, because she was the mom and he was, you know, a teenager type of thing. And now that's obviously not the case. Right. You know, you're his wife, they have kids together. But I think for every parent that's an adjustment. Right? And I think that's why There's a lot of like in law tension sometimes because there's, there's a power dynamic at play and this power dynamic often shifts. It goes from the person that like, you know, I don't even care if you're a minor or adult. We always talk about like, well, when should I introduce them into my family is like some sort of right of rite of passage. And depending on how close the family is or the parent child relationship and the dynamic, it often is like a big moment, right? Like hey, you need my, I need my parents approval, my parent, my family needs to like you. I can't date you unless my family likes you. Right. You know, this family has all this power and they, they get to decide whether that person like passes the test or not. Right. And now that's not the case. Right. And I think that on some level there's always a, that never kind of goes away, right. And that's why people, you know, I think, I think respecting your elders is a mindset quite honestly that I think we've lost in general. My advice, I guess to you is despite everything that's been said overall you being mindful of this kind of, or you know, just respecting your elders in the sense that like, yeah, I just don't think you should butt in when it's not needed or welcomed or asked. Short of like, you know, God, you know, God forbid mom in law was doing something abusive or cruel then yeah, I guess speak up. Don't let people get hurt, you know, don't, you know. But like if it's just an opinion you have that differs from them, you know, like this whole parking situation or whatever, I don't know, like maybe, you know, it's like maybe, yeah, you can, you can stay at our house, but don't park it. I don't know, like just because you do something nice doesn't mean you can't set boundaries with your guests, right? And your mother in law was setting some boundaries with her guest that you decided to like take exception with and whatever. You know, it doesn't really matter who was right or who was wrong. It just really wasn't your business. Right. And for a relationship that's already fragile, that's never been great, by your own words, you're not doing yourself any favors by inserting your opinion where it's not at, where it's not welcomed, like you're just creating a bigger divide. Like that annoyed her, I'm guessing it would annoy, it would annoy most people. It doesn't matter if you're right. You know what I'm saying? So for starters, if you really want to fix this relationship, I would start there. I would start by not butting in with your mother in law when it doesn't involve you. Right. Is that fair?

[Unnamed Friend]

So I think I missed some of the context with the argument and like to begin with, so I came upstairs. I'm notorious for watching the kids at the party. I sit there and watch my own kids. So I end up watching everyone's kids. I come upstairs and my husband and mother in law are already in this conversation. And then he brings me into it and says, hey, Caitlyn, what's your opinion? And that's how it kind of got started. And then I was like, well you, you guys invited them here, you know, and she like immediately cut me off, off after that and that's when she's like, no.

[Charlie]

Gotcha. All right, in the future, just say no. You know what, it's none of my business. Yeah, I guess my point is she's your mother in law, right. And you're right, it's, you know, old doll, new tricks. She's not going to do much changing. So this is about like making the best of a situation. Right? Like you're probably right. You're, I mean like, I don't know, most older people have unresolved trauma, you know what I'm saying? Like most people do, right. And most people haven't worked through it. So chances are your mother in law, you're probably right about that. There's a good chance you're not going to be the person who convince, sends her to go to therapy. And there's also a good chance she never does. Right. So if you're right about this unresolved trauma or whatever is issue she has against you, that's not going to go away. Right. And so you have to make the most of the situation and to do that is to control what you can control. Choose to be happy over being right. Right. Because there's probably a lot of moments when it comes to mother in law, you know, you're right, you're really pissed off and you decide to pick that fight rather than let it go.

[Unnamed Friend]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

You know, and yes, we don't, you know, no one's saying let her, and I'm not saying let her walk all over you. But when it comes to things like, you know, whose favors, whose kids, that could be very subjective. And I don't know, do you, do you think your kids really notice it?

[Unnamed Friend]

They're not old enough yet.

[Charlie]

Okay.

[Unnamed Friend]

Our kids are. My daughter's almost five and our sons too.

[Charlie]

We'll worry about that when they notice it. But you know what I'm saying, Like, I, I think you guys are arguing over a matter of opinion. I don't know. And like, like you obviously have this opinion towards your mother in law. It would be a safe assumption to assume that you have blinders on when it comes to her and her behavior and she has blinders on when it comes to you and your behavior. And neither of you give each other the benefit of the doubt. You guys have years of miscommunication and resentment for whatever the reason is. But you are going to have to. If you really want to fix this relationship, chances are you're going to have to be the bigger person. You're going to have to swallow your pride. You're going to have to bite your tongue. And I'm not saying you should be a pushover or let this woman treat you poorly, but I think there's probably a big difference between that and picking your battles. And again, staying out of things that you don't need to stay out of and try to kill her with kindness. Like what's the saying? You know, it's a lot easier to track bees with honey than with vinegar. And I think that's how you have to treat your mother in law. You really have to go out of your way to try to, to really make things work.

[Unnamed Friend]

So like going forward, if she does anything else, I guess I don't know how to react. Like if I see that something's happening that I don't like that.

[Charlie]

Well, like what? Like, like what? Because right now all I've heard is things she's done are just like little things that you either observed or assumed or presumed. None, like none of this is like outwardly problematic. No one's in danger. No one. You know what I'm saying? This is just like, like little things that you have noticed that she does or doesn't do that annoys you. Is that accurate?

[Unnamed Friend]

Some of it, yes. There, there's some things that like she, if she has watched them, which we don't let her watch them much anymore or at all, if she watches them, like she completely doesn't follow our rules, doesn't put them down for nap, doesn't put them to bedtime when we ask her to, has given them stuff they're not supposed to have.

[Charlie]

So don't let her watch them.

[Unnamed Friend]

Says things like that.

[Charlie]

Yeah, that's simple.

[Unnamed Friend]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

You know, and like, obviously she might not be okay with that. But you can say like, listen, like, you know, and where does your husband come into this play? Like does he get involved? Does he let you two fight? Is he making you say something to, to her when she doesn't follow your guys rules? Are they your rules or are they your and your husband's rules?

[Unnamed Friend]

So usually I'm the one that says something. I think he just kind of lets it slide. Like if they stayed up late, he's like, eh, it's okay. But I, I think I do more of the caregiving. So I'm the one that's going to deal with them when they're cranky the next morning.

[Charlie]

That's fair. Again, Also, I think the easiest solution is to like just not let her watch your kids. But is your husband willing to help you out? Because like I really think this to be true. But like if there's any in law conflict, the glue is the partner. You know what I'm saying? If there's any conflict between in laws, then I think the, the, the spouse, the son or daughter of the in law that you're having a problem with is, is, is playing a role in that conflict. And it's usually because they're not doing anything about it. They're not stepping up for you. Your husband's not helping resolve this conflict as much as he could. You know, I'm not saying your husband has control over his mom, but it sounds like he could be doing more to support his wife. That's fair, you know. Have you talked to your husband about this?

[Unnamed Friend]

Yeah, I mean he's getting better at. He's gone on pretty often with his job, so a lot of it falls on me already, so. But he knows that.

[Charlie]

How does he feel about you and you and his mom not talking?

[Unnamed Friend]

He hasn't been talking to them either. I've seen her twice since Christmas. I saw her at a baby shower for a second and then saw her outside briefly. But that's when it's. It's gonna get sticky during the summer.

[Charlie]

This is literally your neighbor.

[Unnamed Friend]

Yeah, yeah, we live next door. If I could move, I would move.

[Charlie]

Move.

[Unnamed Friend]

But we can't afford to move. But it's gonna get sticky during the summer because my kids will be in the backyard every day and they will see their grandparents over there with the other kids. And I know my daughter's gonna say, hey, can we go to Nana's? And I don't want to say no because she knows nothing about this. She's completely innocent to it.

[Charlie]

Well, yeah. Why couldn't you let her go to Nana's? I mean, especially if her cousins are there.

[Unnamed Friend]

I guess I just don't like I would have to go with her. I don't trust her to watch. Like when the kids are over there, she really doesn't help out with them. And from what I've seen, when she's watching other kids there, she just puts them in front of the screen and then doesn't monitor what they're doing. So I just don't trust her. So I'd have to go in with her and then I just feel like that's going to be awkward with what's going on.

[Charlie]

It might be, yeah. Well, I mean, if they're playing outside, that's one thing. If they're going inside, maybe me.

[Unnamed Friend]

That's the part I'm worried about.

[Charlie]

Yeah. Well, has any of this been helpful?

[Unnamed Friend]

Yeah, I mean, it makes sense what you're saying. I'm just trying to think of how to like apply it though.

[Charlie]

Yeah, I'm trying to think if there's a response. To what? Have you ever just knocked at our door?

[Unnamed Friend]

No, I haven't.

[Charlie]

Why not? Like, I mean, she's just your mother in law. She's literally your neighbor. She's your mother in law. She that scared?

[Unnamed Friend]

I mean, I. I guess I could do that.

[Charlie]

What do you have to lose? I just think that one, I think, I think text messaging conversations over stuff like this never goes great because again, you two have very strong opinions about each other. And when you get text messages, I promise you, she didn't read it in the manner in which you sent it. You know, like. Yeah, and nor did you, you know, like you read how you feel about them and how you think they feel about you and, and you're skimming over words and you're only reading sections of it. And that response you got to me means that whether she read the whole thing or not, the only thing that really stuck with her is you saying you have unresolved issues in past trauma.

[Unnamed Friend]

Yeah, I could see that.

[Charlie]

And hurt people. Hurt people. And you are hurting me and our kids. And she, she basically told you to off and you hurt her by saying that.

[Unnamed Friend]

Yeah, and I definitely didn't mean it in that way. I mean, I come from a background where like, like a lot of what I do, I work with kids in foster care.

[Charlie]

So I do a lot of have trauma. You're probably right. I'm just saying your goal isn't to point out this woman's problems. Your goal is to have a relationship with her. You're, you know, you're not her therapist and you're not a, you're not her caregiver and she's not a child, you know, and so I think we have to be mindful of that when with different relationships we have is like, what is our goal of this relationship? If your goal is to have a relationship with your mother in law and just have it be as peaceful as possible, then you have to go about it in a very different way than say you might with people at work, your husband, your best friend, etc, right? This is a woman that you didn't choose. She came with your husband, you know what I'm saying? Like, and so you just kind of have to accept her for who she is, as flawed as she may be. And that's back to my original point, which is like, like I don't think you are doing anything right now to help you achieve your goal. I think you're often doing things that go against what your stated goal is. And your stated goal is again, to have a somewhat positive relationship with this woman. But right now it sounds more like even though that is your goal, your actions say you, you want to change her, prove that she's wrong, point out her flaws, critique her, at least that I guarantee that's how she feels. And at times I just think, you know, and again, at times you might be justified for feeling the way you do, but it does go against your ultimate goal, which is like, I just want to have a peaceful relationship with this woman. Like, it's not even your goal, like, to be, you know, the closest woman in her life. You just want to be like, civil. And so when it comes to like, who favors who more, I would let that shit go. If your kid shows up one day and brings it to your attention and how it makes them feel, deal with it then, all right? But until then, like, I don't think reading into situations and projecting your relationship with her onto your kids not, you know, is, is helping anyone out. And I think there's probably a little bit of that going on. So in the meantime, yeah, don't send another text. If I were you, and I really want to resolve that, I would knock on our door and I would just say, hey, I'd really like to talk. And again, I'm really sorry for anything I said to hurt your feelings, but I hate, hate that we are at each other's throats and I, I really don't want that. I wouldn't say anything else. Stop pointing things out to her. Stop letting her know what she did wrong. If you, you know. You know what I'm saying. You sent a text that said, hey, we need to talk. And first of all, I would choose different language because again, back to, like, the whole, like, respecting your elders, like, you're just going to get a lot further with this woman if she feels like you respect her at. Well, I guarantee you she doesn't feel like you've ever respected her. And maybe that was a product of you being a rebellious teenager when you met her. I don't fucking know why, where this is coming from, and I'm sure a lot of us to do with her own, but I'm. I. I promise you, if she feels a little bit more respected, you'll. You'll. You might get a little softer version of her. Right? But, like, you sent a message that said, we need to talk, right? You are telling her what you two needed to do. You weren't asking. You were demanding. You were, like, saying, this needs to happen. You know what I'm saying? You got to come in a little softer. How would you feel if. If your adversary told you what to do?

[Unnamed Friend]

Yeah, that's a good point. I wouldn't react well.

[Charlie]

Yeah. You know, but if your adversary came with a white flag and said, hey, is it possible if, you know, when you're ready, if we could sit down and resolve our differences? Because all I really want. All I want to say is I really want us to get on a healthier civil page and leave everything else off the table, you know, how can we get there? Ask her questions rather than make statements or accusations, you know, again. And then you. You. You know, she might say some stuff, but, like, you're gonna. You're gonna have to do your best again to not have her trigger you, because again, old dog, new tricks. You're gonna have to be the more patient one, probably. You know, this is a woman who wants to feel very much like you invaded her family, not the other way around. She wants your respect. I'm not saying you need to give it to her. I'm just trying to frame her point of view as. As well as I think it as well as I can or what I believe it to be be, you know, and then you can do with what you want. Right? But I think to get through this woman is trying to make her believe that you respect her a little bit more than you've shown and to not tell her what she needs to do differently, but, like, to state a common goal. And I think if you do that, maybe there's Some, Some hope.

[Unnamed Friend]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Charlie]

And then when it comes to the caregiving and her following the rules. Yeah. I don't know, you're going to have to pick your battles and find the things that you can tolerate, not tolerate. Right. You know, if your kids really are a mess the next day because they slept over at grandma's house, then maybe don't have them do that. Or, you know, I don't know, that's why you had sleepovers, whether it was with your friends at your grandma's house because you stayed up all night, you watch movies you shouldn't watch, eat food you didn't want to eat. I don't know. That's part of being a kid, right? And so you know what I'm saying, like you got to ask yourself. And again, I'm not saying you need to be okay with that. And you're right. Like a tired kid the next day can be a real jerk sometimes. But you know what I'm saying, I, I do think there's an element of. You've been rivals for this woman for like the better part of one know how many years and you're probably both guilty for where this relationship has gotten.

[Unnamed Friend]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Charlie]

If you really want to fix it, I think you need to start doing your part and then hope she is. Does it a little bit, at least a little bit of hers because you can't, you can't fire her. And unless you want to divorce your husband, you can't get rid of her. And she's your goddamn neighbor. So you're going to have to bite your lip, be the bigger person and try to figure this out with her. Okay, but like peace of mind and civility is not you surrendering. Let go of your pride. You know, think about how much emotional energy you're wasting on this and whatever amount of bigger person you have to be, or swelling your pride will be well worth what you'll gain. And the. Removing the emotional burden of having your mother in law and your neighbor being your rival. All right, yeah, thank you.

[Unnamed Friend]

I appreciate that.

[Charlie]

All right, well, keep us posted. We'd love to know how you guys work, work through this. But no, no more texting her, no more telling her what you two need to do and, and, and try to humble yourself and, and, and raise that flag in hopes that, you know, you can have some peace, because that's what you want, peace. And just remind yourself that's really what you want with this woman, is peace, instability. You don't need her to Play favorites, you know, or whatever. Just, it's really just about you two. Leave your kids out of, of it. Like kind of like you want to, you know? And like again, if a few years later your kids come to you and say, why does grandma like Jane better than us? Then I don't know, then it's an issue, you know, but until then, I wouldn't worry about it. And even when your husband asks your opinion about something that has to do with you, stay out of it because like, she just assumes you're not going to agree with her. Wouldn't even matter, you know? So what's the point of giving your opinion to someone who assumes you're never going to agree with her? Especially when you don't agree with there.

[Unnamed Friend]

Yeah, I didn't think about it that way.

[Charlie]

You know, if, if God forbid you, you actually want to take her side, by all means speak up. That'll go a long way. But when you want to disagree with her or take someone else's side against her, all it is doing is creating a bigger divide between you and her. Okay. All right, well, hopefully this was helpful. Please keep us posted how things go with mom mom in law and wishing you the best.

[Unnamed Friend]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[Charlie]

All right, take care. Care.

[Unnamed Friend]

You too.

[Charlie]

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[Brittany]

Hey. Good. How are you?

[Charlie]

Good. What's your name?

[Brittany]

My name is Brittany. I'm 39 and my former best friend is waging campaigns to smear my name.

[Charlie]

Okay. What do you mean? Who's this former best friend?

[Brittany]

Okay, so it's really. It was like my husband's best friend from growing up. We all went to high school together, so I knew him too. But we've been friends for like 25 years. I would call him my brother. My kids would call him their uncle. We've always been close, but since COVID we became even closer. He lives a few hours away, so he would stay with us for weeks at a time. We would travel. We'd travel with him. He basically lived at our house up until last summer for like half the time. And last summer we went on a few trips. And after the last trip, that was a road trip to Vegas for his birthday, he called up my husband and said that he was disappointed with how the trip went and he's noticed a pattern that he's not happy with and lectured my husband. We were in complete shock because we thought the trip was great.

[Charlie]

What was the pattern?

[Brittany]

Well, the complaints were that we didn't make his new girlfriend feel special enough in the group. We took too. We take too long when we're traveling. Like, we took too long on stops to Vegas. Our babysitter was late. We ruined his birthday. We're. We're too affectionate at concerts. Me and my husband and my husband bonds with me over were their favorite band more than he bonds with him.

[Charlie]

You're married.

[Brittany]

Like were disrespectful towards him.

[Charlie]

Okay. Weird. How did you reply?

[Brittany]

So he called my husband and like lectured him for 13 minutes. Then basically was like, before my husband could answer, said I gotta go and hung up. Then they didn't speak for a few weeks. And I was like, we gotta call this person. He's our. He's our family. We gotta make up. And we both called him together and it, like, didn't really go well because he was, like, nitpicking about how much time we spent on a stop on the way to Vegas, things like that, pulling up text receipts. And I just kind of got heated and so that didn't go well. Then we both met with him separately to try to repair one on one. And there was some progress made. And then we tried to get together, the three of us, to continue with that progress, and he basically backtracked and said he doesn't trust us to, like, talk to both of us together. He feels like he doesn't have a voice in the relationship, and we gang up on him. So we've, we've like, tried. Like, then my husband tried. I, like, stepped out of it. And it's just like every time it's just like, we can't really, like, get to what he's looking for. It's not like, what his expectations are not attainable. And he wants to control everything about, like, the communication. Like, like he won't text or FaceTime or talk on the phone or email. It has to be like, one on one in person. And it's just taken, like, such a huge mental toll.

[Charlie]

And where do we get to the whole, like, him smearing your image?

[Brittany]

So eventually it was just too much. And it wasn't like, going anywhere. He would just, like, twist things and like, not take any accountability for his part in it. In it. So we both, like, blocked him and said we need a break. And now he's like, going around to all our mutual friends and complaining about us. And first it was kind of like some people we went on a trip with over the summer. So like the tighter group. But now it's kind of like extending outward. And everything I've, like, read and research is like, just don't give him any gas. You know, don't react, don't give him what he wants. But he's starting to, like, say that we have substance abuse problems, which is where I'm getting really upset and don't know how to handle this anymore.

[Charlie]

To who is he saying this?

[Brittany]

Like, our mutual friends. So, like, like, it started with a close group and now he's like, getting wider, like with a friend that we're closer with that he's not as close with. He called him like, last week.

[Charlie]

And what substance is he accusing you guys of? Of abusing I don't know.

[Brittany]

Like, he's. It's not true. Like, anything that you would do at a concert, we, like, would see a lot of live music with him. So he's like. Yeah, he's saying that we are out of control or something, but also we haven't like, hung out with him for seven months. Months.

[Charlie]

The picture you're painting is like, you've this lifelong friend, family friend, you know, honoree, uncle to your kids. Like one day just kind of lost it and like, completely changed his attitude towards his lifelong high school friends that ended up becoming husband and wife and then, yeah, lost it. Is that. I mean, is that how it feels from your point of view?

[Brittany]

Yes, it's like, it is out of character and. And it. But he also, like, he's a little different. Like, he's never been in love. He fell in love for the first time over the summer and it didn't work out. And like, he. I don't know. Like, he's saying that he's autistic now and he has. Like, he's an alien and he doesn't understand.

[Charlie]

What do you mean? He's an like.

[Brittany]

Like human emotions. Like, that's. He kind. Like, one time when he did take accountability, he like, said those kinds of things.

[Charlie]

But. But I mean, is he seriously calling himself an alien? Like. Like.

[Brittany]

Yeah, he. Yeah.

[Charlie]

Is this like a mental health crisis situation?

[Brittany]

I think, yes. I think so, yes.

[Charlie]

Okay. And like, the autistic part, in the past few years, the number of people who have self diagnosed themselves for a variety of different ailments when, like, it went from no one wanted to talk about their limitations or disabilities or shortcomings to, like, it becoming almost a social status. Do you think it's anything like that going on or.

[Brittany]

I mean, he's definitely different. I don't. I don't think he got like, a formal diagnosis. I think he just thinks he's special in some way and needs, like, accommodation.

[Charlie]

How much did this heartbreak of his affect him? Like, what do you think was, like, a lot. Okay. Do you think that's what's changed for him?

[Brittany]

Yeah, I think he probably felt emotions that he's never felt before and didn't. Like, he's the kind of person that really needs to be in control of every situation. So he felt probably out of control and, like, blamed it on us slash my husband. Like, he also seems to want, like, complete compliance from my husband without question. So I think it's like a control thing. He feels out of control and you.

[Charlie]

Haven'T spoken with this person in seven.

[Brittany]

Months, you said so we spoke, like, in September. We were, like, on our way to, like, repairing things, but then he, like, turned and decided he didn't want to speak to both of us together, so I just decided to be done.

[Charlie]

What is your concern level other than it's just being really annoying that these rumors and gossip that he's spreading about you two, like, being, like, affecting you guys?

[Brittany]

Yeah. I mean, it is scary because I'm a professional and we have kids, so, like, there could be, like, implications with it, but I think he would have a lot to lose, too. So I don't know, like. But it's just, like, the more people you're starting to tell, like, the more.

[Charlie]

And how did you get. How did you find out that he was telling people this?

[Brittany]

They tell us.

[Charlie]

Okay. And what is their perception of this situation?

[Brittany]

That. That he's dulu.

[Charlie]

Okay, that's good news. Right? So, like, it sounds like the people he is telling, he's not fooling anyone. And everyone kind of sees. Sees it for what it is, is this person is having a mental health crisis or delusional or. Or something. But no one's taking this person seriously. Yeah. You know, you don't know how unpredictable he is, but, like, you really think he's going to go to your place of business or. No, he's going to come. He's going to. Mutual friends, right?

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Brittany]

But I don't know who else, like, maybe isn't telling us, you know?

[Charlie]

Sure. But, like, does it matter? You found out through mutual friends that he was saying this. Right. And had you not found out from those friends, take away the fact that you, like, you are aware that this drama between your friend and yourself and your husband's going on, but, like, would you, you know, it would have affected your life at all? Would you have known the difference?

[Brittany]

No. No.

[Charlie]

Okay. You know, I guess that's what I'm saying. It's just, like, there's no point, and you can sit there and worry about bad things happening all the time and. And it's. As someone who's, like, at times in their life, been a professional warrior, I can assure you, like, it's possible as I've gotten older, now that I have a kid, now that I'm, you know, married, and now I have, like, responsibilities outside of myself, as you do as well. Like, I have gotten better. Better at, like, just, like, I don't have time to worry. So I don't. And I just assume everything's going to Be fine until someone tells me it's not. Because, you know, I have enough of responsibilities that every day there's a new problem for me to solve that I do have to solve. So I don't have time to worry about the things that aren't problems yet. And I think just that mindset might serve you and your husband well. I mean, listen, right now, at first you guys went through the whole, like, trying to. To. To, you know, just to like, solve what you thought was like, some sort of. Of disconnect between you and a friend. And then after trying to resolve that disconnect, it. It became more and more clear that, like, this is more than just a disconnect. Like, I don't know, this. This friend is going through something and we are not able to, like, figure it out, what they're going through. We can make guesses. They had a heartbreak, you know, that really him up. Now he's just really acting out of pocket now. He's going so far as to, like, gossiping and spitting rumors about us. Like, he's saying things that quite honestly are kind of like friend ending things, you know, and if nothing else, he is. He has shown to be an unsafe person for you and your husband to associate yourself with. Now you're kind of getting into, like, a category of like. I mean, it sounds like it hasn't, and I hope it hasn't, but, like, you have each other, you and your husband, you have kids. I think you mentioned, like, I mean, listen, I don't know. I think, yeah, more in the loss of a friend. But what is your goal at this point? Like, is it. Are you still trying to figure out how to mend this fence, or are you trying to figure out, like, what to do? Like, what are we trying to do?

[Brittany]

Yeah, just trying to figure out what to do next. I, like, thought I figured it out with not, like, blocking him, not giving him any reactions, not giving him gas, but, like, it just seems like he's still trying to, like, take this further and I don't know what he wants. And I'm willing to do anything to, like, stop the rumors.

[Charlie]

Did the rumors happen after or before you blocked him?

[Brittany]

After.

[Charlie]

Okay, that makes sense. That's what I would have guessed. Those rumors are a reaction to you blocking them is my guess. You said this is a guy who really likes control and he likes setting the boundaries of communication, and you took that away from him. And. Yeah, he is, I'm assuming, spreading these rumors so that you call him up and say, what the.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

So, yeah, I don't think that you should call him up. What the. But I think. Think. Yeah, listen, I get it. Like, it's. It's a dirty feeling to know that there's someone out there that's saying terrible, untrue things about you, you know, and you want to put a stop to that. And then it feel. You know, it's. Yeah. That can really mess with you, from what you're telling me. And, I mean, I can't give you any guarantees, that's for sure, but, like, it all kind of makes sense, right? I mean, it doesn't make sense why he is acting this way, but it makes sense from what you're telling me. Person who likes control people, who likes to dictate how he communicates with friends. You blocked him. He panicked, overreacted, and now he's saying these things to mutual friends, quite honestly, in hopes that it gets back to you. I don't know if he's actually being that Machiavellian or fast forward, but I think our subconscious brains kind of work that way. We kind of say things. We try to be messy. I don't know why this is, you know, but I'm guessing that's why these rumors are popping up.

[Brittany]

It was definitely to get back. Back to us because he told a friend who. He's not super closer than we are. And it wasn't, like, concern. It was like, here's what they did wrong.

[Charlie]

That's what I'm saying. So, like, annoying, but, like, I think you can rest easy knowing that it's not something that is actually gonna create a problem in your world.

[Brittany]

Okay.

[Charlie]

Probably, you know, you don't want to mend this fence. Right. Like, you guys have moved on.

[Brittany]

Yeah. Don't trust him.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Brittany]

At all.

[Charlie]

I think you just let it die out, maybe.

[Brittany]

Okay.

[Charlie]

Were you hoping for a different answer?

[Brittany]

No, no, no.

[Charlie]

I.

[Brittany]

Like, this is. Is great, because I don't want to, like, I'm. He's a wild card. So, like, any, like, reach out. I don't know how he would react, and I don't. I would have to be, like, so sensitive and, like, specific. I don't know.

[Charlie]

Has your husband. Did your husband reach. Did your husband reach out to him at all after the rumors that got out or anything like that?

[Brittany]

No, we haven't. He's still, like, DMing my husband. I. I think my husband just, like, unfollowed him. Maybe not blocked him, but, like, there's still, like, after he talked to our recent friend last week, he, like, DM'd my husband just, like a surface level, like, message.

[Charlie]

And your husband just ignored it?

[Brittany]

Yeah, I just ignored it.

[Charlie]

I mean, at that point, is it worth your husband saying, like a goodbye, like, really like an actual breakup message? Because it doesn't sound. You guys actually broke up with them.

[Brittany]

It was like the last exchange was like, we need space and time.

[Charlie]

That's not the same, basically.

[Brittany]

Yeah, but like, I mean, like, we could. I don't. I'm just scared of, like, his reaction.

[Charlie]

Do you need to be a part of it? When you say scared, how scared? Like, what, what. What level of scared?

[Brittany]

It's just like, taking such a heavy, like, mental toll just to, like, get back into that and, like, deal with him again and hear his response month. Like, it's just too much.

[Charlie]

So don't. Yeah. I mean, if that's how you feel.

[Brittany]

Okay.

[Charlie]

You know, I mean, the only. My only advice to you is like, protect. Protect what matters. Right? You and your husband, your relationship. Everything he said just sounds bizarre. Like you guys are. Two of. You're married. He should celebrate his friends still being affectionate after all these years together, you know, like, you know, but again, like, the breakup him up. I don't know, it affect him in a weird way. It doesn't justify his actions and like, you guys have decided move on. So correct me if I'm wrong, but him spreading these rumors is what's bothered you the most since then and. And really has stopped you from like, just like, moving on and letting it go.

[Brittany]

In the beginning, we were just so confused and, like, heartbroken. Like, it was really, like, going through like, a breakup. Like, yeah, big time. Like, we talk about it every single day since it happened. We think about it like, you know, we cry still, like, it's. It like, fucked us up. We already, like, tried everything, I feel like, really, truly. Yeah, I, like, am totally on board with being done. Done. The only thing, like, I was wondering if it, like, I. Because he, like, has a weird thing about my husband. I think it would even be less dramatic if I was the one to reach out to him because he just, like, isn't as comfortable with me. I don't know. So I was just wondering if I should reach out and be like, sorry for any hurt we've caused, like, but please don't spread those rumors anymore. It's dangerous.

[Charlie]

I. I don't know if that's going to do any good. This guy seems unpredictable, and I don't think that's going to dictate what he does. Like, he knows he's not supposed to spread them. He's doing. He, he did it on purpose to get a reaction.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

The fact that he said it to this one friend that you're closest with than he is.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

I think is a good sign for you guys in the sense that like he's not just going to some. It didn't affect that person's opinion of you. They didn't believe it.

[Brittany]

Right.

[Charlie]

I mean, if anything, maybe you guys have already done this, but have you guys just been like, we don't know what happened or why we got to this point. We really wish we didn't. We, we miss our friends. Friend, ever since that trip, you have done and said things that feel unforgivable and you don't seem like that. You, you, you, you haven't given us any sign to either of us that this is a relationship you want to fix. And so we feel like we have no choice but to say, please leave us alone. And then you could bring up the rumors and blah, blah, blah. But like, I wonder if like a letter written by the both of you is almost like a therapy therapeutic goodbye or a last ditch hoped to get through to him. I don't know. Because you know, as much as you.

[Brittany]

Say you're like a written letter email.

[Charlie]

Yeah, I don't know. But like, clearly you guys, you know, from what I'm hearing, you guys are done. You guys have, it's like you guys have accepted that you can't get through room. Like you've said you've tried everything. So like, it's more like you give up. But it sounds like you guys have still are mourning the loss of this friendship and this person because the person he has become or has shown you who he is these past seven months is unrecognizable to you. Would that be accurate?

[Brittany]

Correct. Yeah.

[Charlie]

So it sounds like you guys are really kind of still mourning this and like have it and, and almost like reluctantly agreed that you have to like move on from this person because he's giving you no choice. But if, if he gave you the choice, then yeah, like, you would love to have that friend back, but like, you don't trust him anymore.

[Brittany]

There are like things that we've said like if he repaired his trust with me first before my husband and then like took a, and took accountability for what he's done, like that would be a starting point, but we just don't think he's capable of that right now.

[Charlie]

I think if anything, you write a letter and I always say like, you know, as always, especially in 2025. Don't. Don't write a letter that if it. That you would have a problem at showing up on the Internet. And I think you could write that letter no problem. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, you just always got to be careful of your communication.

[Brittany]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Charlie]

But, yeah, I don't know. It could be also, like, therapeutic for the both of you to kind of almost like, say goodbye. I'm almost sensing a little guilt that you guys. You and your husband have, because it's almost like you don't know what's going on with this guy, and maybe it really is some sort of, like, mental health crisis, and you don't feel. And you don't want to abandon a friend during a crisis, but at the same time, he's also, like, proven to be, like, unsafe for you and your family in relationships. Like, his behavior is not okay. And, like, yes, any friend that tries to put a wedge between a married couple, like that. Married couple. To disconnect from that. Whoever that is. Right. So he's. He's not giving you much choice. So, yeah, like, a letter that is just kind of like a goodbye letter and restates and reiterates, like, the relationship as you guys see it without trying to throw out accusations. I mean, you're gonna have to point out the whole, like, we hurt. You know, like, it was very hurtful to find out from our friends that you have been saying X, Y, and Z about us. Like, I'm not sure where that's coming from or why you would even say something, you know, to be completely false. But, like, obviously that was very painful for us to hear. And I. I think most of the letter should be a tone of. We're heartbroken and sad and we don't know what to do. But as painful as is for us to ask this because we miss you. You. We. We don't feel safe around you anymore. And I think it's that language that.

[Brittany]

You use and actually send it. Yes. Sometimes you write this just to get it out.

[Charlie]

Yeah, you guys can decide, you know, you don't have to commit to anything. Write it. See if. How you guys feel about it. Maybe it's something you guys are doing therapeutically with yourselves. Ask yourself, do we really need to send it? I don't know. Know, like, maybe you do send it. Maybe you don't. Like, you guys can sit on it for a while. It might be a good exercise for you and your husband to do it. It. Like you said, it's taking up a lot of emotional bandwidth for you guys, and it's affecting you guys. And you guys right now need to figure out how to let it go one way or the other.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

Because right now, you guys are having a hard time letting it go. He's still dming your husband. He. Your husband brings it up to you. Your husband says things like, I don't even know what to say. And you're like, I don't even know either.

[Brittany]

You know, it's just, like, derails our whole day.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Brittany]

Also, we, like, all three of us, like, go see a lot of live music, so we, like, see him out.

[Charlie]

Yeah. It's weird, right? So. And it still feels like you guys haven't completely said goodbye to him.

[Brittany]

I like that. Yeah.

[Charlie]

You know, so maybe write it. Say goodbye. Get a little closure for yourselves. Decide if you think you should send it. But, you know, I don't think sending it if. If it's written well. And that again, that written well, as it's more about, like, you guys are sad and you're writing it to say goodbye. And this is the. One of the most heartbroken letters you had to write. And it's just like, you wish it didn't come to this, but you really don't know what to do. And you don't even know why it's gotten to this point. And you miss him and you wish you could be there for him, but you. It feels like he has pushed you guys away in ways that you never expected, and you don't even. You don't know what to do do. And now it's gotten to the point, like, you don't trust him or feel safe around him. And no matter how close you. You were, you two will never let anything come between the two of you. And that's something that every person in your life up until, like, even your kids, to a certain degree, is that, like, people, you know, like couples that let people know that nothing can come between them and that they're a united front are always gonna. You know, those are the strong couples. And. And people hate unity. You know, people like, will always want to break that up. That's why they say strength in numbers. People, you know, they see a couple, they want to. There's a little jealous, you know what I'm saying? Jealousy and things like that. And so, you know, his initial, you know, he needs to respect that. If he, you know, he can't respect that, then he can't be a part of it. But the hope. The hope in sending this letter is not because you're going to like get a letter back in a week being like, just kidding. I don't know. You're. You're. I read that letter and you're so right. It's basically to like have him sit with it. It's there if he wants to reread it whenever he's around. And then I don't know, maybe someday he comes around. I don't, I don't know. But the, basically the letter is to, to leave a door open if that thing that you never expect. And I think, yeah, you don't write it expect, you know, because you're kind of expecting never to come around. But the point is you've. I think the guilt's coming from feeling like you alienated a friend in need. Need. Because he doesn't know why he's acting this way. And you guys have been trying to like, you've been in this kind of survival mode with him, trying to just figure things out. And then these rumors started happening and you're like, what the going on? And this guy and we can't talk to him and you needed to block him and you don't even know what to do. And now you're just kind of like stuck in this like emotional limbo of like. Yeah, did we just. Did we ghost him? Or like, did we. Did we do what. What is going on? You know, know. Does that make. Am I getting this right?

[Brittany]

Yes. No, you're. I think you're nailing it. I love this. Thank you.

[Charlie]

Yeah. So, yeah, that's. That's just kind of what I'm hearing. So I think what you guys need to care about is what I think you guys are caring about, and that is the two of you in your relationship. And you guys just need to continue to protect that. Right? And, and be a team and come together and figure out what you two need to like, let this emotional, like just toxicity go, you know, at least temporarily or forever. And, and do you know. And that temporarily is like saying what you need to be said. You know, you're a last ditch effort of trying to get through to him, but even if you don't get through to him, the message is there that like, this is heartbreaking and sad and you don't want this, but like, at the end of the day, you two will always protect the relationship above all things. And that's something you should be proud and happy to say to anyone.

[Brittany]

Sure. I think my husband will love this too.

[Charlie]

All right, well, sorry you're going. What a weird, what a bizarre Situation so weird.

[Brittany]

It's weird. But thank you so much for listening and thank you for your feedback. I love your insight.

[Charlie]

Well. Well, thank you. And yeah, I mean, there's no, there's no point in diagnosing guessing further. I mean, clearly this breakup.

[Brittany]

I have some guesses.

[Charlie]

Yeah, clearly this breakup seemed to have really him up. You know, that's the only thing that makes sense of like griping about you guys being affected, affectionate, you know, and him not knowing how to.

[Brittany]

Yeah. And it was, it was like a change in personality, I feel.

[Charlie]

I said sometimes.

[Brittany]

There's always been hints, but yeah. Yeah.

[Charlie]

I don't know. People, People get weird, man. Like, I know some of my friends that like, and I was friends with in my 20s, I think I mentioned this. I have some friends that, like, I don't keep in touch with as much as I used to. And the truth is they just got weirder, man. Like, I don't know. At least I think maybe I got weirder. Maybe. I don't know. But like people, people do change. And the reality is that you guys all men high school and stayed friends. But your life, you and your husband's life have drastically changed where his hasn't. He's still the single guy who lives a life very much sounds like it's all about he. Him. Yeah. Does what he wants to do, when he wants to do it. He doesn't answer to anyone. He had his two best friends that happened to be married. It was very convenient for him. And as you guys have matured, involved and grown and grown your family and, and got older, he. Your change has been very inconvenient for him. And this in. He fell in love, she broke his heart. He got weird and it just kind of like it snapped. He snapped.

[Brittany]

So you nailed it. Thank you.

[Charlie]

Yeah. Sometimes you just have to say goodbye. Like very few people are lifelong friends, you know.

[Brittany]

True.

[Charlie]

You go through seasons and you never know. I, I've, I've lost touch with some friends and reconnected in the future.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

You know, this, the, the good news.

[Brittany]

Is at different stages, I guess.

[Charlie]

Yeah. I mean, you, this is a, this is a relationship that has an incredible foundation. There is always that hope that even like a couple years from now he might figure his shit out. And that's where maybe sending that letter where I would say vote. I would vote for saying that letter. It's not because you're looking for resolution in the immediate future. It's because like, you've literally been friends with this guy for 20 some years. And right now he's acting in a way that you don't recognize. And maybe he's just going through this midlife crisis of his and he's been fucked up. And I don't know, maybe a guy who's been general, living his life for himself by himself needs a wake up call. And maybe this is what this is. I don't know. But maybe a year or two from now, if he still has a letter or he'll remember the letter and he's looking for a little bit of grace or a chance to go back in, this letter will be that window for him to swallow his pride and maybe reach back out and say, hey, I was, you know, I was. Oh, a little weird for a while there, guys. Sorry. You know, who knows? Maybe, you know, you never really know, but, like, that's where the, the letter might be a little like. And that's kind of what it is, you know, like, in that tone, if in five years he rereads this letter having, like, figured out his, would that make it easier for him to reconnect with us? You know, then maybe send it. It's not the time. Be careful when you write like, this is not the airing of grievances letter, you know what I'm saying? Like, I. There's no point in that. Short of, like, you can bring up the fact that he. The rumors he spread. Yeah, you can call him out on that. But you know what I'm saying, this is not the time to be like, you know what? To be honest, you've been selfish your whole fucking life. Like, not. This is not that letter, you know what I'm saying? This is like, we're very sad this happened. We don't know what to do. We've tried our best. We don't know why you've said some of these things. We need to distance ourselves for our own, like, peace of mind in our relationship. But, like, we wish this wasn't the case. But please respect the fact that as soon assuming you're, you know, you're not willing to do what we need you to do, please respect us.

[Brittany]

Like, please don't approach us. Or is that too aggressive? Please don't reach out, please. Like, what's the. I'm just trying to figure out the boundary is because we will see them in public and we.

[Charlie]

We can't be in each other's lives. I don't think you.

[Brittany]

We can't be in each other's lives.

[Charlie]

Yeah, yeah. We're not gonna respond and we're not gonna. We're not gonna have a relationship with you because, like, you've made it impossible to have one. And, And. And we're really sad about that. You know, something like that, you know.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

Yeah. I would. I would try to avoid any, like, very, like, specific demands or requests.

[Brittany]

Just like, okay, yeah. Type of thing that I asked that question.

[Charlie]

Who knows? Like, maybe. Maybe he.

[Brittany]

Too aggressive.

[Charlie]

Yeah.

[Brittany]

That letter.

[Charlie]

Yeah, we just. We can't. We can't have you in our lives. This is more basically explained because I think there's a little bit of guilt probably from your husband from just, like, not responding to these random dms. He doesn't know what to say or do. And that's just pointing this out. Us not being your life is. Is. Is. That's why I'm not responding. That's why we're not talking. That's why we're not reaching out. You can acknowledge maybe in the letter that you blocked him, but why you blocked him. It's just more like I didn't know what to do, you know? And like, it's. And you can be vulnerable and say, this is. We have spent hours and, you know, he. I don't know how I'll feel about it. Maybe he'll get some sort of. He'll get off on it. I don't. I don't know. But I think you can. The hope of you acknowledging how much energy this has costed you and your husband and how much time you spent trying to figure out what's going on with this relationship will certainly, like, stroke his ego and make him feel validated. But the hope is in the future he'll have some, like, empathy about, like, what. What this emotionally is costing you guys. And maybe he'll come around. Around.

[Brittany]

I'm okay with, like, stroking his ego or doing whatever to make him feel good. I just want this to end.

[Charlie]

Well, part of it ending is you guys being able to let it go. Right. Because you can't control him. And, And. And part of it ending is you and your husband, like, kind of agreeing and just letting it go. And part of it is also not talking about him anymore.

[Brittany]

That's hard. Yeah.

[Charlie]

Event maybe your husband, I think, also.

[Brittany]

Telling the mutual friends to just not talk. Tell us if he talks about us.

[Charlie]

Yeah. Let the mutual friends be like, yeah, yeah, we've heard it all. Like, we're not talking to him anymore. You know, like, listen, like, I think he's just. We've tried reaching out to him. We've tried, but, like, just. Yeah, don't. But that's the thing you got. You have to just. You and your husband should, like, do a little bit of accounting about what are the things that are keeping us emotionally invested in this and then try to.

[Brittany]

Our friends are trying to get us back together. Other.

[Charlie]

Why, though?

[Brittany]

Because it's inconvenient for them or what.

[Charlie]

What is. What is their position? Don't they think his behavior is crazy?

[Brittany]

That we're, like, throwing. They think it's. We can't, like, throw away, like, 25 years of history. Like, I think it's just, like, if we. If there's, like, a group trip planned, it's. We can't, like.

[Charlie]

But you're not. You're not throwing it away. I'm like. You're like, again, one day this man out of nowhere called us up and started airing these random grievances about, like, how affectionate we are as a married couple. And then, regardless of how crazy we thought those accusations were, we. We, like. We tried to, like. We're like, yeah, exactly what we. You thought. We, like. We're not going to, like, obviously, let's. I don't know, let's figure this out. He's. He's upset. We don't know why he's upset. We wanted to talk to him, and things only got worse, and now he is. He is spreading lies and rumors about us behind our backs. You know, if. I mean, you. I would go to your friends and be like, if you guys know how we should fix this, let us know. We've goddamn tried. Like. Right?

[Brittany]

Yeah. Yeah. 100. Yeah.

[Charlie]

So that's what I would say to your friends. What would they say? Like, what have they said?

[Brittany]

Like, you know, he's different and, like, just trying to, like, present his perspective. I don't know. Like, they got to him first. He got to them first because we consciously decided not to involve our friends. So he got to them first. And then we're just here, like, trying to defend ourselves. And they're. I mean, at first they were like, do we need to be worried about you? Or are you, like, do you, like, have a problem, like, with substances? We're like, no. Like, so. I mean, he kind of. They're just. We just have to be on the defense with all these details he's told them that are.

[Charlie]

I'm even more in favor of writing the letter because it just seem. I feel like it closes the loop on all this, like, friend drama. But listen, I don't know. You guys are at a stage in your life that, like, I. I'm not Saying your friends, but, like, I don't know, like, listen, like, at the end of the day, your friends. I don't. Like. Yeah, you know, they're. They'll figure it out.

[Brittany]

More friends.

[Charlie]

Yeah. You have other friends, and they're not our only friends. Exactly. And, like, they'll. I don't know if they really write the letter. And that's what you. It's like, that's kind of like your insurance policy. It's like, again, like, we. We tried. Guys, balls in his court. But, like, what do you want us to do? We've tried. So, like, talk to him. And almost like, you guys have no idea how much emotional energy we've put into trying to fix this relationship. So, like, no offense, you guys know I have no idea what you're talking about. And I'm sorry. It's messed up, the dynamic. But, like, what would you do if someone was out there spreading rumors about you in your family? Do an inventory of what's keeping you guys emotionally invested and try to put a stop to that for now. It shouldn't, like, affect you guys the way it has. It's not fair.

[Brittany]

Yeah, yeah. It's enough.

[Charlie]

He's gone through something for sure. But I also think, like, sometimes as adults, we can't handhold our friends. Sometimes people have to go on those journeys on their own, and that's. And. And people can come back into our lives. It happens all the time.

[Brittany]

Okay.

[Charlie]

All right.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

Well, good luck. I am sorry you're going through this. Please, I love. Please keep us posted. I'd love to know. I would love an update.

[Brittany]

I will. I will.

[Charlie]

All right.

[Brittany]

Thank you so much. I love your insight, so I appreciate your time.

[Charlie]

Thanks so much. All right, best of luck. Take care.

[Brittany]

Okay.

[Charlie]

All right, bye.

[Unnamed Friend]

Bye.

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