E905 Ask Nick - Hope is Not Your Friend

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Viall Files – Episode E905: Ask Nick – "Hope is Not Your Friend"

Release Date: March 24, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode E905 of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall tackles complex relationship dilemmas submitted by listeners. This episode, titled "Hope is Not Your Friend," features two primary callers seeking advice on enduring relationship challenges. Throughout the discussion, Nick provides insightful guidance aimed at fostering healthier partnerships and personal well-being.

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Caller 1: Ryan – Struggling with an Uncooperative Partner

Timestamp: 01:30 – 44:54

Issue Presented: Ryan, a 24-year-old listener, reaches out to Nick with concerns about her boyfriend's lack of participation in household responsibilities. Despite being a kind and supportive partner in other aspects, he consistently neglects duties like washing dishes and sharing financial responsibilities, leaving Ryan feeling overwhelmed and unsupported.

Key Points:

• Rapid Co-habitation: Ryan and her boyfriend moved in together within a few months of dating, which led to an imbalance in household duties.

• Lack of Contribution: While he contributes by feeding the dogs and occasionally taking out the trash, he fails to engage in other essential tasks, creating an unequal partnership.

• Impact of Upbringing: Upon discussing with his sister, Ryan discovers that her boyfriend was raised in an environment where his mother handled all household chores, leading to his current reluctance to share responsibilities.

• Communication Barriers: Despite numerous conversations and pleas for assistance, his boyfriend's promises to improve remain unfulfilled, culminating in Ryan's growing frustration and resentment.

Notable Quotes:

• Ryan: "He truly has never had to lift a finger. And so here I am, I've been begging and pleading in every way I can." [02:43]

• Nick: "You've tried hope, communication, asking... but it's not going to change unless he chooses to." [07:46]

Nick's Advice:

1. Recognize the Pattern: Acknowledge that his behavior stems from his upbringing and is unlikely to change without conscious effort on his part.

2. Set Clear Boundaries: Ryan needs to establish firm boundaries regarding household responsibilities, emphasizing that she cannot continue to bear the brunt of chores alone.

3. Consider Relationship Viability: Evaluate whether a long-term relationship is feasible if fundamental issues like shared responsibilities remain unresolved.

4. Take Drastic Measures if Necessary: If improvements are not forthcoming, Ryan may need to consider ending the relationship to preserve her well-being and prevent further resentment.

5. Self-Care and Independence: Focus on her own needs and responsibilities, reducing reliance on her boyfriend for household tasks.

Outcome: After an extended dialogue, Ryan acknowledges the necessity of either having her boyfriend change his behavior or ending the relationship to avoid future dissatisfaction and resentment.

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Caller 2: Macy – Setting Boundaries with an Overbearing Mother

Timestamp: 78:26 – 105:07

Issue Presented: Macy, a 25-year-old listener and therapist, seeks advice on establishing boundaries with her mother, who has been increasingly intrusive and critical of Macy's personal life choices, particularly concerning her boyfriend. Macy struggles with her mother's lack of support and persistent judgment, which strains their previously close relationship.

Key Points:

• Overstepping Boundaries: Macy's mother inserts her opinions into Macy's life decisions, leading to feelings of disrespect and undermining Macy's autonomy.

• Negative Perceptions of Boyfriend: Her mother judges Macy's boyfriend for behaviors like heavy cussing and weed usage, despite Macy's own acceptance of these traits.

• Desire for Approval: Macy desires her mother's approval but finds herself in a position where her mother's expectations clash with her personal choices.

• Family Dynamics: Similar patterns of intrusive behavior are present with other family members, exacerbating Macy's frustration and anxiety.

Notable Quotes:

• Macy: "I've recognized a pattern of her defending her actions and not taking accountability when she hurts me or oversteps." [78:27]

• Nick: "You need to own your choice... what you say, I promise you will have less of an impact than your actions." [99:14]

Nick's Advice:

1. Clarify Intentions: Understand that Macy's primary goal is to have her mother evolve in her perceptions, which may not be immediately achievable.

2. Focus on Self-Control: Emphasize that Macy cannot change her mother's behavior but can control her reactions and boundaries.

3. Implement Firm Boundaries: Clearly communicate the limits Macy wishes to set, such as not allowing her mother to critique her boyfriend or interfere in her relationship.

4. Consistent Enforcement: Maintain the established boundaries consistently to prevent further intrusion and signal to her mother that these limits are non-negotiable.

5. Prioritize Personal Well-being: Encourage Macy to prioritize her happiness and relationship over seeking her mother's approval, recognizing that her mother's behavior reflects her own issues rather than Macy's choices.

Outcome: Through the conversation, Macy gains clarity on the importance of setting and enforcing boundaries without relying on her mother's approval. She plans to communicate her needs assertively and prioritize her relationship and personal well-being over external validation.

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Viall Files, Nick Viall adeptly addresses two distinct yet interrelated relationship challenges—balancing household responsibilities in a partnership and setting healthy boundaries with an overbearing parent. By providing actionable advice tailored to each caller's circumstances, Nick empowers listeners to navigate their personal relationships with greater confidence and clarity. The overarching theme emphasizes the importance of self-respect, clear communication, and the willingness to make difficult decisions for the sake of personal well-being and healthy relationships.

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Notable Quotes Highlighted:

• Ryan: "I have been begging and pleading in every way I can." [02:43]

• Nick: "Hope hasn't worked... you need to do something drastic." [24:17]

• Macy: "I need her to not always defend her actions, but take accountability..." [78:35]

• Nick: "You need to own your choice... what you say, I promise you will have less of an impact than your actions." [99:14]

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For more insights and discussions on dating, relationships, and pop culture, tune in to The Viall Files with Nick Viall, Natalie Joy, and the Household.

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Nick]

Okay, you guys, for everyone who wants to know, are you d t f down to farm? That is. That's right. Farmer wants a wife is back on Fox with four hot farmers looking for the love of their lives. But are these ladies ready to take on the farm life? And you know, dating one woman has its challenges, but juggling five, these farmers are going to have their hands full. Don't miss the all new season of farmer wants a wife Thursdays on Fox.

[Ryan]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

How's it going?

[Caller]

Good. My Name's Ryan. I'm 24 years old and my boyfriend can't do the dishes.

[Nick]

Say more elaborate, little context.

[Caller]

We've been dating for a little over a year. We did like move in very quickly. I would say like within a couple months. It was just the most practical thing at the time. So kind of from jump. I'm a homemaker, I cook, I clean. You know, that's just who I am. And you're in the honeymoon phase. You want to be sweet and do all those things. Now it's been like a year and a half and he has not ever touched a dish. He only takes the trash out if I ask. He is, I want to also say like kind in a thousand other ways. But like for some reason things can never be 50 50. And I've asked plenty of times for, you know, a little bit of help and whatnot and don't get any.

[Nick]

So in addition to not doing dishes, he doesn't do anything other than maybe take the garbage out. When you ask like, yeah, like any.

[Caller]

Household responsibility, whether it is paying utilities, taking the trash out.

[Nick]

He doesn't pay the bills.

[Caller]

He feeds the dogs. We.

[Nick]

I.

[Caller]

We share the finances. We're very intertwined in a team when it comes to those things. But even just the simple task of, like, hey, the wi fi is due, and, like, hopping on there, doing it, that is something that falls on my plate. Or if, like, we just moved recently, you know, trying to communicate with landlords, things like that, like, those are all responsibilities that I take care of.

[Nick]

Is that a engagement ring on your finger? You engaged?

[Caller]

No. It's not. No.

[Nick]

Nope. Just want to make sure we're doing that. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha.

[Caller]

Interesting.

[Nick]

Do you want. You want to marry this guy?

[Caller]

Yeah, I would. And like I said, in every other.

[Nick]

Aspect of our life, like, you would or you or you want to?

[Caller]

I want to.

[Nick]

Okay. You're like, I mean that with my heart, you know? Well, why. Why. Why do you want to? Why do you want to. Why would you want to marry him?

[Caller]

He is truly, like, such a kind human being. We are such a good team together on every other aspect of life. Another little background as we both work at the same company, kind of on different sides of it, but, like, we do that very well together. We live together well. Our families blend together well. He's kind to his nieces and nephews, and, you know, like, he goes out of his way to be just a good person. He really is. So I don't know why this simple task of just, like, being a team in the house is so hard.

[Nick]

That's a great question. I don't. I don't know why either. And if you would have said, hey, like, why am I. Why does my boyfriend not want to do dishes? And then I was like, well, what. What does he do? And he's like, well, you know, he doesn't do dishes, but, you know, he always cleans the bathrooms. He empties out the garbage. Like, he mows the lawn. He just doesn't want to do dishes. And I would probably be like, okay, well, now he doesn't do dishes, and I don't do laundry, you know? Like, you know, and we've been able to find the things that, like, we like or dislike or hate. And thankfully for us, there's a lot of compatibility in the things that, like, we can make up for each other. But you. You say a lot of. You say a lot of, like, generally nice things about your boyfriend, and, like, he's a good person, and he's nice to his nieces, and, like, you work well together at your job, which is like, that's your job. Kanada work. Well, yeah. Together. And it doesn't sound like you guys actually work together to get, you know. But you're also being paid for this. It's like your job where. Yeah.

[Caller]

And I think, like, communication, like, we do very well on, too. We. He's very much the kind of person that if we have an issue, I can feel comfortable, like, bringing it up. We sit, we chat about it, none of those things. But then when it comes to this, it feels like it's in one ear and out the other because there's no, like, action to follow, if that makes sense.

[Nick]

No, it makes sense. But I guess my question to you is, what do you think? You know your boyfriend? I don't. Right. I don't know this man. Never met him. Don't know what he looks like, don't know his name, know nothing about him other than what you've told me. And so you're the one who believes in him. You know him. So why do you think, despite him being this great, wonderful person that you want to marry, why do you think he comes across like such an ass as it relates to this particular topic? Because, like, what you're telling me is that despite, you know, all these things that you do around the house, that not only does he. Is he not willing to help, he doesn't really pay attention to what you do. Maybe he thanks you, I don't know. But he. It's like, it'd be one thing, you know, it would be. I think it would already be bad enough if you were doing everything and he just kind of, like, took it for granted, didn't thank you, and just kind of, like, enjoyed the benefits of everything you do around the house and never really acknowledging it, but you're like, hey, I want. I need help. You're begging. You're. You're begging. This man, it sounds like. And you're nodding yes. You know, and like, he doesn't give a. So, like, what does he not. So what else does he not give a about? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, we. We have to. I'm not saying he's horrible. I'm not saying you should break up with him. But, like, you've heard me talk about the three B's. Yeah.

[Caller]

That broom.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And the.

[Nick]

The budget. Right. And so the broom. This is all. He's. He's a zero contributor as far as. In terms of what you're saying on. On one of the bees.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

There's three pillars that in. In relationships People have to have some kind of understanding. Doesn't necessarily have to be fair or equal, but there needs to be an understanding. You need to be on the same page. You know, somehow doesn't matter what. Everyone's different. Relationships are different. We're not here to tell people how it should be. But you need to feel on the same page with your partner. And you are in left fucking field. And he's not even. He's not even there. He's not even showing up. And you're begging and you're asking, and he's like, he's not giving a shit. Why do you think that is?

[Caller]

To be quite frank, I think that his mom has always done everything for him. I actually had a conversation with his older sister about this. Truly, I was, like, at my breaking point. Came to his older sister and was like, here's where we're at. Like, do you have any insight? And she was, like, growing up, he never had to. Like, my mom did everything for us. Like, she does the dishes, she handles things, and she. We live in the same town as his parents now, and they. She still does the same thing. You know, like, if there's something that maybe I can't handle that day and he thinks he doesn't have time for, like, his mom will just drop everything and go do it. And so I think it's just. He's never had to lift a finger. And so here I am. Like, I truly have begged and pleaded in every way I can. I've been angry, I've been sad, like, everything. And it just feels like it's in one ear and out the other. I mean, like, this. We've. We've had a hundred conversations about it, and I kind of get the same response every time that it's okay. I'm so sorry that you feel that way. I will do better. I will be better. I, like, we. I will. And then a week, two weeks goes by. I'm still kind of handling everything. And I've tried to give him plenty of, like, opportunities, you know, like, leave the dishes a little extra long and see if anything changes. And it just doesn't. And I think it's just because he's never had to before.

[Nick]

Okay, fair enough. You're probably right. But how. How are you going to change it?

[Caller]

I don't know. I have no idea.

[Nick]

Despite what you want, do you think it's realistic to. To pursue a lifetime with this person if you can't get through to him?

[Caller]

No, that's my fear is, you know, I would like to be a mom someday. And like having the responsibility of that on top of handling everything else scares the out of me.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, you already have that. You, you already have a kid.

[Caller]

No, I would like to someday.

[Nick]

I'm telling you. And I'm telling you that wasn't a question.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I'm saying you, you have a child, he lives at home with you. Yeah, yeah. And if you're right, you've, you've, you've, you've replaced his mom. But yeah, you're right. If you have a, if you guys have a kid together, I wouldn't expect that to change anything.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, I think it'd just make it worse.

[Nick]

When I, when we had river, my mother in law, you know, granted she's, it's been a while since she kids of her own. River was her first grandchild and I didn't think much of it, but like in the first week of her, like of River's existence and she was staying with us, she was like, I've never, I've never, you know, I'm not here and I'm not saying this to pat myself in the back, but she's like, I've never seen a, a man so involved with like helping out with the baby. And I'm only saying that not to pat myself on the back. I'm just saying like there's a lot of guys out there who don't help, that don't participate. And for whatever the reason, whether it's some sort of like misogyny, sexism or maybe their mom just always took care of them and it's not the norm. Right. Or certainly it's not something that you can just expect. And so the fact that you are dating someone right now who is showing you these clear signs of just like this incapability of doing his part in the relationship. And like that's his part, you know, like him being so bad at this is him choosing not to participate in an aspect of your relationship. I doubt that you like doing dishes and laundry and all this and paying bills. Like, it's not like, oh, this is fun, I enjoy doing it. You're an adult, you know, it needs to get done. You have familiar with, you know, taking care of yourself and not having mommy or daddy doing it in part, like, you know, so like, have you ever considered not paying his side of things? I mean, I don't know how that affects you with rent or, you know, and things like that.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, obviously we, you know, he's pretty good about like, you know, he Venmoes me his half and whatever. Like, everything is split very 50 50. It's just the act of, like, hopping on and doing it. But I have told him, like, you know, hey, babe, can you run down and get this title thing figured out for, you know, my truck or whatever the case is? And I've straight up just said no. I work and I don't have time, like. And I have told him, and sometimes it feels like he's just adding more onto my plate, you know, of even the smallest he can ask me, you know, where's the forks at? And my knee jerk reaction at this point is just to be like, I don't know, you fucking find them yourself kind of thing. Because it's just festered so long.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller]

That the simple tasks. I'm just like, if you did the dishes, maybe you would know, you know.

[Nick]

Does he do it or does he reach out to mom when you tell him?

[Caller]

I would say so.

[Nick]

He does pretty 50.

[Caller]

50.

[Nick]

So half the time you say no to him, he'll reach out to his mom.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Nick]

How old is your boyfriend?

[Caller]

26.

[Nick]

I mean, you know, like, I don't, you know, what. What's your breaking point?

[Caller]

I don't know. I think that's what I'm having a hard time with. Um, like I said, he is such a good person in so many other ways. So I haven't wanted to ultimatum him up until this point because I just think it seems dirty to me. I don't know. So I. I'm just having a hard time deciding, like, when do I draw the line?

[Nick]

You know, what seems. I mean, the difference between an ultimatum of I need you to propose to me or we need to move in together. Yeah. You know, versus a quote unquote ultimatum about him participating in your relationship.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I will say I have told him, like, this is not a situation that I'm comfortable, like, continuing forward with in the future. I will not marry someone that can't help.

[Nick]

How long you been dating for?

[Caller]

I just won't do it. Probably about a year and a half.

[Nick]

When's your lease up?

[Caller]

We just started it, so it won't be up again until next February.

[Nick]

Next February. Okay. Are you talking about engagement at all or not?

[Caller]

We've talked about it.

[Nick]

Yeah. In what context are you still talking about it? I guess my question is, is like, you have this. You have this issue right now when it comes to his lack of participation and helping you out. Sometimes people will identify this problem and say, all right, well, this is a huge problem. I can't marry someone who would be like this. I hope that you won't continue to stay like this. We need to have this change. And then I guess once this change, I can reevaluate our potential in terms of spending a life together. Yeah, that doesn't usually happen though. What usually happens is like, oh, I got this problem. But I also, I have my own personal timeline when I decided I want to get engaged or married and yada, yada, yada, and I'm getting older and you know, especially from the point of view of a woman, I understand that you guys have a biological clock. You have to consider and things like that. And sometimes or oftentimes they will like, you know, acknowledge that there's a problem, but also simultaneously pursue the thing that they want, which, you know, might be a proposal and things like that, while just telling themselves like, well, yeah, that's a problem, but we'll just keep working on it. And you know, I love the man. He's a good guy, he's nice, he's nice to his nieces. So like, we can still move forward, Allah, move in together, sign a lease, get engaged, yada yada, and you'll just hope that this problem changes. And I'm, I'm curious what is more accurate as it relates to you in terms of how you are going about moving your relationship forward.

[Caller]

I've definitely, I guess I don't know if I voiced this to him, but you know, my own personal thoughts have slowed down a lot on my engagement timeline. You know, solely for these reasons, I'm a pretty self aware person, I think. And so I, yeah, I've kind of halted my brain on moving forward with engagement. Like, I truly think if he asked me tomorrow, I would probably say no just because I. There's not been any actions to follow up his words.

[Nick]

Okay, that's good to know.

[Caller]

Yeah, I hope so. I, yeah, I don't want to marry someone that can't help. So I just don't like, is this something that he will grow out of or is this just who he is, you know?

[Nick]

Well, it's who he is today and I don't think he'll grow out of it. He's certainly capable of deciding to change because he realizes he does not want to be known as some kind of man child mama's boy who, like, honestly, the more people find out about this kind of. I don't know, if I were him, I'd be embarrassed. That doesn't embarrass him. Yeah, he seems to be okay with it clearly not going to change for you. And, you know, his mom seems to be willing to do enough. And, you know, you're already starting to do at least some of the things that I would suggest you do, which is like, certainly stop doing him any favors, stop playing the role of his mom in any capacity. As far as the things that just need to get done because you want to live in a clean house and bills need to get paid, and just because he's kind of a lazy, sloppy person, you know, you don't want to have to live in that environment. Even though you agreed to live with him. I would say, you know, you just resign your new lease. Listen, if. If you. Doesn't sound like you have any real intentions of wanting to break up with them, and I'm guessing that's not really on your decision tree at the moment. So let's assume you continue to stay with this guy. If your lease is up in February and it hasn't gotten better, then you absolutely should not continue to live together. That would be a bare minimum. If you really wanted to rattle them, I would kick him out. I would. I would replace him and find a roommate. I mean, my point is, is like, you are going to have to do something drastic. It sounds like, because reason and asking and pleading and even begging hasn't changed anything. All he does is say sorry and he'll try better. But I'm. I'm. I'm assuming at this point, it must feel insulting for him to keep apologizing and saying he's sorry and feeling bad while simultaneously not doing anything. It's not that hard to do a dish. It's. It's just not that hard. And he doesn't have to do dishes. You know, I'm guessing all if. If all he did was find two or three things that he took ownership of and helped around the house and went out of his way to say, how can I help? It would change everything drastically. And that is truly bare minimum, you know, and he's not willing to do bare minimum.

[Caller]

I had a conversation with him, and it was probably the most productive a conversation has felt. And, like, I'm just such at my breaking point that I will take anything, any effort. And we came up with a big three, which was, I don't expect you to do the deep cleans. I honestly find those days to be very enjoyable. I put my headphones in, I get down and dirty, you know, and his big three could be helping with the dishes, taking the trash out, and like, just general pick up your Clothes off the floor kind of thing. That conversation was probably two or three weeks ago, and I felt like it was a very tangible. He could. That was three things he could check off. And it still hasn't gotten any better.

[Nick]

Yeah, again, you're still trying to parent him. That's what a parent would do with a child. Right. And the only thing that's different between you and a parent is, like, you can't punish him. Like, you can't tell him to go in the corner in his room or whatever, but you got to stop being his mom, and you're still being his mom. And, you know, it shouldn't be that hard to ask your partner to do some basic. And I get it. He's a nice guy. He's nice to his niece. But, like, there's no. I've never heard a therapist or a relationship expert say, you know, just make sure they're nice to their nieces.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, like, obviously, if he was a dick to his nieces, fine. But, like, you know, some uncles aren't as, like, you know, they're just like, yeah, I got nieces. They're nice. I. I wish them well on their birthday. Yeah, I would. I. I don't think I'm ever gonna win un. The year. I've never been like, mister, like, you know, take my nieces to a Pl. You know, I. I don't know. I just. I haven't. You know, I. I think I'm nice, but I'm not, like, Mr. Outgoing uncle, you know? But I tell you what, when it comes to my house, I. I participate. I'm a partner. I. We do things together. Sometimes we do them literally together. Sometimes we divide and conquer, but we raise our daughter together. We. We. We take care of our house together. Like, we both feel like we do our part because we. We do. We both do our part, you know, and that. That is such a big deal.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

When it comes to a marriage or living, you know, as you now know, living, you know, you know, living together, it's been magnified that much more. You know, you can date a mama's boy or someone whose parents do everything for him and just be boyfriend and girlfriend with each other and get away with it. But, I mean, this is a big deal, you know? And, like, I guess my. My advice is you're gonna have to do something drastic, most likely.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Nick]

You might have to break up with them. You might have to tell them that, like, you're not changing, and I don't want to live like this, and I love you and I don't want to break up with you. I need you to move out. Yeah, I mean, honestly, if I were you, I would. I would maybe tease, you know? I don't know. You need to be at least somewhat serious, you know, but do you have someone who could replace him?

[Caller]

Like another man?

[Nick]

No. Like a girlfriend or. Yeah. Like a roommate.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay. Because, like, if. Yeah, you need. I think if I were you, I mean, that the e. The. The. The path of least resistance is to semi. Seriously, tell him that you want him to move out. And I. And this person that you're thinking of, or maybe people. Are you in a position to maybe go to them and say, would you be open to this if it came to that? Like, is that something you'd want to do without them, you know, getting their hopes up in case, you know, a boyfriend changes his ways? Are you willing to do that?

[Caller]

I don't want to. I really don't. But, yeah, I.

[Nick]

Of course you want to. You want him to help out. Yeah. You know, we know that you don't want to, obviously. Right. You want him to help out. You want him to participate, but he's not going to. He hasn't. He's shown you an unwillingness to change. So that's. That's kind of what I'm saying. You're past the hope point, right? You've tried the hope. You've tried the communication. You've tried the asking. You've. You've talked to his sister. You know, you've done that. Like, hope hasn't worked. You know, you don't want to break up.

[Caller]

Yeah, you're right.

[Nick]

He. He doesn't give a. Or he doesn't care. You know, he doesn't care. His actions say I don't need to change because at the end of the day, she'll end up doing it anyways.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Nick]

And all. And. And I would rather have her nag at me than do dishes.

[Caller]

Yes, you're totally right. And you're. When you say, like, it is almost just a slap in the face at this point if he doesn't do it, because, you know, it's almost embarrassing for me at this point that, like, I have a boyfriend who I'm begging and pleading for help, and no matter what I say or do, he knows that I'm not going to go anywhere. And yeah, I think you're right that it does need to be something drastic. I don't want to break up and I don't want to move out. But, like, what other option do I have. You know, because clearly his words don't have any value at this point, and neither do mine.

[Nick]

Yeah. So. And I'm sorry you're going through this, but it's. It's not going to get any better. He's not going to grow out of it. And if you have kids with this man, it will only get worse.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And I have talked to a lot of. I've talked to a lot of women who feel very stuck in marriages with deadbeat partners who just, like, don't care enough to help.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't. I've really struggled with, like, where to go from here, but I. And I've wanted to avoid any breakup ultimatum talks of any kind. But I think it's at the point where that's kind of just what I have to do.

[Nick]

I mean, like, the fact that he can't take out the garbage.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Like, he will watch it be full, and even. Even, you know, he can't even lean into toxic masculinity to be like, I should take all the garbage on the guy. You know, like, he'll just sit there and. And. And. And watch it pile on and pile on and just wait for his girlfriend slash maid to do it for him.

[Caller]

Yeah. And it just. Yeah. Like I said, I told him we had a conversation about this literally last night, and I told him that, you know, I just straight up don't believe him anymore, that his words at this point hold no value to me when he says that he'll do something different because they haven't changed in the last four months, so why would it change now kind of thing. And that I just don't trust what he says anymore. And it has started to fester into every other aspect of our relationship. Like things that we. We never had a problem with our sex life before, and now, like, why would I want to sleep with you when I'm tired? And the last thing I want to do is, like, touch your penis. I can't. I can't do it. I'm tired.

[Nick]

And that's the thing. Yeah. Resentment is already, you know, kind of seeped into the relationship.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And the bummer part is, is that he seems to be more likely to just start resenting you than change. Because, you know, the reality is, if his sister is right, it is very hard to change your ways after being catered to for your entire life. And, yeah, he doesn't. Clearly doesn't want to change. So now you're just going to come across as a nag and he's going to resent you. And yeah, you know, like, at this point, is he, Even if he's. Is he doing it because he wants to participate in the relationship or is he doing it just because he just wants you to shut up and have you touch his dick?

[Caller]

Yeah. And he's mentioned, you know, in the same way that I feel like I'm not being listened to or anything like that he does feel like I just nag him all the time and that I'm so hyper focused on it. And he feels insecure because we don't have sex as much as we used to, you know, And I, and I've told him, like, yeah, I'm probably not a joy to be around. I probably a bitch half the time. But like, I don't know what you would want me to do any differently. Like, until things get better, I am going to continue to be frustrated and.

[Nick]

It'S going to just get worse and what's he say?

[Caller]

He agrees. He's. He's never told me that I. What I'm saying is wrong. That's the hard part.

[Nick]

Is he annoying?

[Caller]

Disagree with me on anything. It's very annoying. And he. I've told him, like, I almost feel like crazy at this point that like, my expectations are so far out there and unobtainable that I like literally think I'm going insane because I, I must just be like such a crazy, clean freak girlfriend, whatever. And I know I'm not, but I told him that you make me feel that way. And he's like, well, that's not my intention. And you know, I never want to make you feel like you're crazy and your expectations aren't too far out there and it is doable and I will do better. And it. Yeah, those words are so nice to hear, but they don't mean shit anymore.

[Nick]

Like, when are you doing the laundry and doing. When, when you're doing all these things, what's he doing?

[Caller]

Sitting on the couch watching you? Yeah, watching me on his phone. Whatever.

[Nick]

And have you said anything in that moment? Being like, can you help?

[Caller]

Yeah. And usually if I say something, he will, like, I'm like, hey, China, clean things up around here. Do you think you could maybe do the dishes? And you know, I roll and he'll go up and do it and that's great and all. And yeah, that took it off my plate today, but what happens next week? And like, constantly having to ask for help gets very exhausting. Like, he's never. Anytime I ask, he will do it, but I don't Want to have to ask anymore?

[Nick]

Well, okay, let me ask you this. What if you only had two choices? You could obviously leave the relationship, or you could marry him. He will be the nice, loving, caring, good uncle that he is. But when it comes to helping you around the house or being a parent, you will almost always have to ask. But if you ask, he will generally mostly do it. Which one would you choose?

[Caller]

That sounds like a miserable life. I would probably opt to break up if I knew that that was what my future was going to be.

[Nick]

I would opt to break up even if he. What if he jumped right up and said, sure, no problem, when you asked?

[Caller]

Still seems frustrating. Still seems like I'm his mom. And maybe that's unrealistic.

[Nick]

I don't know. But it's not.

[Caller]

I'm sure not.

[Nick]

It's not unrealistic.

[Caller]

Natalie has to ask you to do the dishes.

[Nick]

No, but, you know, she definitely has to. You know, we ask each other to do things from time to time, you know, for sure. And I think she definitely asks me every day for some kind of help. But I'm all. I'm also often doing things on my own.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I think there's, you know, blue and pink jobs of how silly that sounds. But, like, if I'm gonna clean and do the laundry and whatever, that's fine. But, like, go change the oil in my car, you know, like, if that's what it is, or hang the shelf or do the things that. If you want to be a man, do the things that a man does. But the problem is, is that I am independent and I handle my own. And, you know, I've told him. I was like, if you don't want to clean and you don't want to do that, that's fine. But when it comes to mowing the lawn and changing the oil in our cars and things like that.

[Nick]

You guys have a lawn job. You guys live in a house.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Nick]

Who's mowing the lawn?

[Caller]

At our last rental, our landlord mowed it for us. And at this one, there's someone else that now mows it as well, which is good. I guess that takes something off of, but just in the concept of life. Like, to me, like, if I'm going to do everything else, those are some other things that you could do. Or, like, clean the garage. Maybe that's your job. But at this point, they're all my jobs.

[Nick]

I mean, you're in a. You're. You know, you're going to have to do something drastic, you know, and you'll have to figure out what. That. What's. What are you comfortable with. But, yeah, you have to consider the fact that you guys aren't as compatible as you wish.

[Caller]

Yeah, okay.

[Nick]

You know, I'll tell you. I'll tell you anecdotal story. When I was on the Bachelor, it really irritated me when granted, it's Bach Cherelle, and there's a lot of group dates and interrupting and things like that. And when the lead's on a date, all the people sitting around the house will have the. The man chats, the girl chats, and the producers will ask them questions. And common question was always, so, do you think, you know, Joe's gonna come back today or something? Do you think Joe's gonna get a rose or do you think he's gonna get sent home or whatever? And we'd all, you know, and. And it always would annoy me when my peers would be like, oh, yeah, Joe's such a good dude, man. Of course he's gonna come back. And I'm like, who gives a fuck if he's a good dude? Like, what is. This isn't the good dude competition. This is like, who has a better connection? Who's more compatible? Who does she like the most? Is not about being a good guy. You know? Like, I'm glad he's a good guy, and I'm glad that Joe, whoever Joe was, was a good guy or whatever, you know what I'm saying? But, like, when it comes to relationships, if all you can say about why you two are together or why you two work and why you love him or choose him above anyone else in this world, if he's like, because he's a good guy and he's nice to his nieces, like, maybe he's not your guy. You know, you seem like a bit type A. You like things done a certain way. That's fine. But you are dating the literal opposite of you. You know, like, you know, it's like, yeah, you know? So to him, maybe you are just a nag. I don't know. Maybe to him he needs someone who's a little more chill. Maybe he needs someone who's a little more comfortable letting some clothes pile up for a day or two because eventually he'll get to it. Maybe he needs someone who's like, I'm just never gonna. I'm just never gonna, like, think to do this shit. But, like, if you ask me, I guess I'll get up because whatever. But, like, you don't want that. It's not. It's frustrating for you. You resent that that person. Something's gotta give, right? And the big question is, can you. Can he. Can both of you a little bit, or can do you just. Guys decide that despite both being good people, maybe you're not each other's person?

[Caller]

I feared that that's what you were gonna say.

[Nick]

I mean, I'm just throwing out options, you know, I'm just. I'm just. I'm only. I'm only saying what I'm saying based on what I'm getting from you.

[Caller]

Yeah, I don't think you're totally wrong. And I do think that he thinks I'm a clean freak. I promise I'm. I like a clean home. I do. But I'm not. I have three dogs. They sleep in our. They sit on our couch. They drink out of our toilet. Like, there are dishes in the sink sometimes. And that's cool. Like, I'm not a freak by any means. I know I'm not, but sometimes it, like, he makes me feel like I am.

[Nick]

And I mean, listen, you don't. You don't have to. You don't have to sell me. You know, like, Natalie and I, you know, we're busy people. We, you know, we're not big. Like, we don't grocery shop for the week. You know, we're surrounded by grocery stores. Most nights when I come home from work, I call her up and be like, what do you. You know, what should I pick up for dinner? And I'll stop at a grocery store. I'll get the ingredients for whatever I'm going to make. I cook dinner and, you know, I don't know, I. I usually clean the kitchen. She's usually giving River a bath. She's usually the one, like, doing all the laundry. She's usually the one, like, I don't know. I have vacuumed. I don't know, no times in 20, 25. And it's not true once or twice, but you know what I'm saying? Like, we just. It fits. But like, it sounds like the idea that he would call you up and say, hey, babe, what? Can I pick us up for dinner? Does that ever happen?

[Caller]

Like, okay, so I told you, we've been dating for a year and a half. Ish. Valentine's Day was what, a month ago? The first time he ever cooked me dinner in our entire relationship was this Valentine's Day.

[Nick]

I mean, I'm not even talking about cooking. I'm talking about. Does he even get. Offer to, like, get the groceries or stop at the store? Or run an errand for you. No, it's crazy. No, it's crazy.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Was it good? Is he a good cook?

[Caller]

It was fine. It was steak. Yeah. And if that's what. And I've told him there's nights that I work late later, once a week.

[Nick]

If he cooked you a nice steak, I'm sure he'd really appreciate that.

[Caller]

Yeah, I would love that. Yeah. There's nights that I work late and whatever. And I've told him, you know, if I work from 8 in the morning until 9 o'clock at night, it'd be really nice to come home. And it could truly, at this point, if it was Kraft Mac and Cheese sitting there waiting for me, like, I would be over the moon at this point. Because, yeah, like, it's just one thing to take off my plate, you know?

[Nick]

You have to remind yourself that you're not happy. I know it's a weird thing to say, but you're pretending this is. You're not happy. You're miserable, you're gotten. You're at the point of resentment. So. And I only say that because it's just like you have to make a decision because this. You're not happy. Right. So why are you continuing a life that makes you so unhappy? Something needs to change. You need to drastically change something or shake it up or something. You need to try to get through this person. And that's the thing, though, and your predicament is that people almost never change for anyone else. And when they do, it's always very temporary. Right. So even if you broke up with him or made him kicked out, whatever changes he would make in the short term would be almost impossible to trust because it would be doing it just because you scare the shit out of them. He's trying to get back together with you or, you know, yada, yada, yada. And so your predicament is to. How will you ever trust that after 26 years of, of being taught how to do one thing, how can you trust that he is actually committed to wanting to change? I honestly fear that it's a compatibility issue because it's, it's, it's just more likely that you're, you're better off finding someone you're a little bit more compatible with. And maybe that's it. I think maybe the most realistic, drastic thing you can do is to sit him down and say, I don't know if we're compatible. You know, because right now you're, you're nagging him about chores. You're like Do. You're not doing more. You're just yada yada. You're. You're not. You're telling him to do stuff when you come to him and present to him. I've been thinking. I'm worried. I don't think we're compatible. And as sad as that makes. As sad as that makes me feel, I'm just wondering if maybe we're not each other's person and that. That. That will ring. That will. That will heal. Hear that differently. And because that's you. That's you kind of giving up. That's you not trying anymore. That's you kind of admitting defeat. And that's him maybe having to hear something that he doesn't want to hear, you know, because you nagging at this point. He just. Yeah, he's just like, oh, God, I'm sorry. And that's the thing. When he apologizes. You can say, listen, that's the thing. You can stop apologizing to me as I realize that, like, I can't change you. And honestly, I don't want to change you because you would just resent me. And this is who you want to be. And I'm just. I'm who I am, right? I'm just. I'm never going to be okay with being your mom or allowing this house to, like, just be filthy and messy. And I don't want to wait around for things to get done. And I also don't want to nag you. And I'm just wondering if maybe, like, you know, I love. I love you and I don't want to break up you. I'm so sad. You might, maybe. I don't know. But, like, we don't get along on a very important aspect of relationships. And, yeah, that's. See if that affects. It affects him, you know? And don't say things like, you're not going to find anyone like me or anyone think. You know, you have to almost it's true. Like, this isn't. You know, you kind of have to acknowledge the truth, which is, we're not on the same page. I can't. I don't want to live like this. I don't think we're compatible. I don't have a choice. Because, like, that way, when you deliver it that way, he can't necessarily plead with you to reconsider anything or give him another chance. It's not about giving him a chance. It's about you recognizing and accepting something you didn't want to believe, which is like, I don't know Maybe we're not compatible. And that way you can be like, I don't know, just like. I'm not even saying or doing this to get you to change because I don't want you to change for me, you know, because I'll just. Then I'm just a nag. So what I want is, I want, as a man who wants to be my partner in all aspects of a relationship and living together and having a family, like, requires two people to want to help and I want someone who does.

[Caller]

Yeah. That's something I've definitely never tried before. I think I'm stubborn and I. Yeah, maybe part of the reason I, like, won't ultimatum or anything like that is just because I won't have to admit defeat and that we're not compatible. I have not wanted to admit that up until this point. And that's probably the one conversation that we've never had in regards to this.

[Nick]

No, it might be worth having.

[Caller]

So. Yeah, I think you're right.

[Nick]

These are prime years you're giving up.

[Caller]

I really appreciate it.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And I know I'm young and I. There's plenty of time to break up and get back together with someone else and do, you know, date other people. Like, I'm not stressed about that. Like, I'm only 24 and I've always told him that I don't need you. I'm more than capable of doing everything by myself, clearly. But I want you. And like, even that doesn't hit. So it's like. Yeah, I think I just need to like, pitchforks down and admit that I'm. That we're not compatible.

[Nick]

Well, listen, I. I don't see him making any decisions, so it's all gonna have to come from you. So you will decide when you're actually truly fed up and then that's when you will actually do something about it. Whatever it is you do. But as long as you recognize that he's not changing and no, you know, it's not about asking things a different way or a better way or communicating things. He just. This is who you're. This is who you're in a relationship with and he really has to want to care.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

He doesn't believe you're going to do anything about it.

[Caller]

Yeah, I think you're. You're totally right. And I, Yeah, I really appreciate the honesty. I knew that was exactly what I was going to get calling you. And that's kind of. You know, I talked to my friends and they can all agree that he's a great Guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. And I appreciate the insight from one. A man who helps around the house and, you know, is a partner to his wife. And I appreciate just someone being, like, so blunt and honest with me.

[Nick]

All right, well, why I'm here. Good luck. Keep us posted. I'd love to know what you decide to do, but. Yeah, it's a tough situation because I empathize with your plight, you know, because, you know, all jokes aside, I'm. It's not easy to consider leaving a relationship where you love a lot of the things they bring to the table. But same, you know, if. If. If he was, let's say, helpful, but let's say he was terrible with money, terrible credit, gambling problems. I mean, that would be. Despite him being a good guy, that would be a serious red flag and concern and. And something that would ultimately be something that you would have to take on that responsibility if you married that person. And I think the broom element of a relationship is easy to overlook, you know, because it's, like, not that hard to sleep a floor or empty a dishwasher or wash a dish, but, like, it is magnified tenfold when you guys start having a family. You know, as you get older, you have more responsibility, both probably at work and at home. More and more people rely on you as you get older, you'll not only be a parent to your children, but you'll start taking on more kind of nurturing roles when it comes to your parents and things like that. And you're sure going to want a partner who's there to help, you know, help with all aspects of being a team. I mean, my favorite thing about being married is I really feel like I'm. I have a partner, you know, that I have a teammate in life and that we get things done together, you know, and that whatever emotional problem or, like, tangible, like work, you know, like, I have a partner and. You don't have a partner. You have a boyfriend.

[Caller]

Yeah, I do. And I. Yeah, I'm just tired. Honestly, I'm just exhausted. I work full time and come home and handle everything at home and everything in our social life and all those things. And. Yeah, I'm just, at this point, just exhausted, and there's.

[Nick]

All right.

[Caller]

I'm having a very hard time seeing a light at the end of the tunnel.

[Nick]

Well, that. That's. That should tell you something, you know.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

If nothing else, it tells you that everything you've done so far is not enough and that you need to take more Drastic measures and talking about it isn't going to do anything.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And, and, and I'll leave you with this. Just remember, stop acting like his mom. Stop assuming the role of his mom. If anything feels like, you know, short of like you're getting it done because not getting it done would affect you, stop doing anything that he is capable of doing on his own.

[Caller]

Okay. I think that's a great place to start. And yeah, I think I'll know my breaking point when I get there.

[Nick]

All right, well, good luck.

[Caller]

Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. I do just want to say that I listen to every single episode of Ask Nick. All the episodes. Reality recap. And I just really, I love listening and it's great. Me and my best friend Sierra are. We work together and so we have you in our headphones together at the same time all the time. And we're totally obsessed.

[Nick]

That means a lot. I love to hear it. Please tell all your friends and thank you for. Thanks for calling in. Thanks for listening.

[Caller]

Okay. Thank you so much.

[Nick]

Take care. All right, bye. Bye.

[Caller]

Bye.

[Nick]

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[Ryan]

Hi, I'm Rose. I'm 29.

[Nick]

How can we help Rose? Or how can I help?

[Ryan]

I need to know if I am dickmatized by the last guy I've been talking with.

[Nick]

Okay, well, what do you think I'm leading to? Yes, tell me more about this guy and what. So this is like a situationship, I'm guessing.

[Ryan]

We met at a party and we hooked up the first night and we started hanging out or we started talking a lot and then we hang out a couple times and then now it's kind of like faded out and I feel like maybe I was into it more than he was, but he kind of just like ghosted me. But I, I thought that this was going to be someone that maybe I could like, see myself like, getting more involved with.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Ryan]

And as of late it has kind of just like plateaued.

[Nick]

What was the last thing you heard from him?

[Ryan]

So we were kind of in this conversation where he's, he's a really crappy texter. Like, he takes like a day or two to respond to my texts and our texts are more like lengthy and in depth. So I always thought that that was like, okay. But the one day he had kind of said to me, oh, sorry that I like suck at texting, I'm not interested in keeping you waiting, blah, blah, blah. I was like, okay, that was kind of out of nowhere. But I Wasn't sure, like, where he was coming from for that. And we decided that he wasn't ready or in a position in his life to kind of progress things, but I was willing to more so, like, take a step back and meet him where he was at. And so I had sent him a text message a week later saying I was good to keep things more casual. And he wrote back being like, okay.

[Macy]

Can I get back to you?

[Ryan]

And I was like, yeah, sure. And then that was three weeks ago, and he's just not ever gotten back to me.

[Nick]

Gotcha. What is different about this particular guy and, like, and what. I don't mean the guy himself. I mean, this situation. Like, is this the first time you've had, like, a. You hooked up with a guy on the first night?

[Ryan]

No, I think what really stuck to me was, like, he treated me with a lot of respect.

[Nick]

Okay, compared to what? And that was kind of more like, what specifically? So, like, you know what I'm saying, Like, you met him at a party. You guys hooked up that night. You've done that before. Okay, but what. Following that, that hookup felt differently, specifically, I think.

[Ryan]

Like, he, he was, he was doing more gentleman, like, things for me.

[Nick]

Okay. Like, like opening door throughout, like our hanging dinner or something.

[Ryan]

Yeah, opening up the door, wiping the snow off, you know, putting on my jacket for me, like that, that type of stuff. And then noticed that even though he sucked at, like, texting back at. In a decent time frame, like, he was also not on his phone, like, with me. And a lot of people, like, we. We know a lot of the same people, and they were always like, oh, he's, he's great. Like, he's such a good guy. Like, good for you type of thing. So kind of like, reassured, like, okay, like, this is, this is a good one. I'm going after for. It wasn't someone that was like, I had typically gone for in my past, so it was like, new. But, yeah, so I'm. I. I'm just kind of like, stumped thinking, like, you know, he kind of just. I mean, he kind of told me he didn't want to progress things. And when we had got together one night after he had sent that text message, we talked about it in person, and he had kind of said that he was so busy with work that he didn't have the capacity or he. He didn't want to feel more weight on him, like in the girlfriend style. But he's like, you're wired life material. If you want a boyfriend, you totally deserve It. You should go after it. But, like, I can't do that right now.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

And then he also told me to protect myself, which I know. I was thinking.

[Nick]

I was like, oh, gosh.

[Macy]

I was like, if I write into.

[Ryan]

Nick and I tell this him, he's going to be like, if someone tells you to protect yourself against them, then, like, you'd be a fool not to believe them type of thing. Right?

[Nick]

Is that what he meant? Protect himself against him from him?

[Ryan]

Like I protect myself against him?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

I don't know that that's what he said.

[Nick]

So. Yeah. I mean, so, like, why are you having such a hard time getting over this guy? I don't know, because your friend said he's a good guy and he.

[Ryan]

No.

[Nick]

Did a couple of chivalrous things for you. How many times you guys hook up?

[Ryan]

Well, before this whole, like, situation happened, we had gone on three dates.

[Nick]

Did you hook up all. All three times?

[Ryan]

Yeah. And I thought it was, like, fireworks. That's why I thought it might dictate, because I thought it was, like, great.

[Nick]

You know, the sex was great.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah. Well, I mean, listen, like, I guess, what. What can I help you with? It's like he's not even talking to you. Right. So, like, what were you hoping to get out of this call? And, like, you know, how did you feel starting the call? And how are you hoping to feel by the time the call was ending?

[Ryan]

I don't know. I. I feel like I need someone to, like, tell me, which, like, my friends have been telling me, but I need someone to tell me, be, like, get over it type of thing or. Or, like, just because this is, like, one of the first guys to treat me, like, with respect, is that why I am, like, hesitant to, like, keep walking away type of thing?

[Nick]

Well, I mean, he. He basically has told you to stop and he hasn't called you at all. So it's borderlining on, like, being creepy by suggesting that you're not going to give up on him. Like, you're. You're just nothing.

[Ryan]

Well, no, it's not that I'm not going to give up on him. I mean, I haven't reached out.

[Nick]

No, I get that. But, like, mentally you're still talking, like, is there's. There's something to hold on to.

[Ryan]

Yeah, I think I was just hopeful that, like, if I were to, like, see him out and about, that, like, maybe, like, we could rekindle.

[Nick]

Because, I mean, I don't doubt that if you met him out and about at the right time and the Right. Day of the week that it could relate to you guys rekindling. I don't think that's going to be in the way that you hope it might mean just sex.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Even the good guys are still guys, you know?

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Right. And. And guys. Well, I mean, guys. How old is he?

[Ryan]

In his early 30s, I think.

[Nick]

Yeah. Guys in their early 30s, 20s, whatever. Like, they'll often say yes to sex if sex is on the table, you know?

[Ryan]

Right.

[Nick]

And it's a lot easier for men to disconnect from sex and not feel any type of emotions connected to sex. And they can still be a. Generally a good guy. And it's like the difference between him and he's a little more thoughtful and a little more considerate than maybe the average boy. And I'm sure he is a good guy and maybe he'll be a great guy to the person he really wants to be in a relationship with. But he's giving you all the signs. He doesn't want to be in a relationship with you. He thought sex was pretty good with you enough to want to do it again. And then as soon as you started elevating how you felt about him, he immediately started distancing himself from you.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Which means that all he really wanted from you was sex. And he thought you were nice. Nice enough, a cool enough hang. But ultimately hearing how you felt about him made it very clear to him how he felt about you or didn't feel about you.

[Ryan]

Right. Yeah. So you believe in the whole, like, if he wanted to, he would type of thing. Like, if a guy's interested in you, it doesn't matter how busy they are in their schedule.

[Nick]

Like, they will make this particular scenario 100%. Yes. He is not too busy for work. And he is not. It might be true that right now, if given the choice, having a girlfriend is not on his top priority list. But what is true, that is he met the right person, he would absolutely be in a relationship with her, assuming that eventually he wants to settle down and have kids. So, yeah, this guy would if he wanted to.

[Ryan]

Yeah. When. When we had had a kind of conversation about that, he said he didn't see kind of kids in his future, he didn't want kids, and he didn't even know what he wanted, like, in his future in terms of, like a wife and a family and.

[Nick]

Yeah, well, that. There you go. So he's not even someone who's sure what he wants. And despite him being a nice guy, what do you want? Like, do you want to have Kids or settle down, get married. Like, what are your relationship goals?

[Ryan]

Yeah, I. I would like my family. Like, a family and kids.

[Nick]

So him telling you, I mean, again, like, maybe it's a line, but it's also probably true. I mean, it's probably true that right now he is unsure about what he wants for himself as it relates to a family. And you're not in. And you're not even listen, like, listening to that. You're just like, oh, you opened the door for me.

[Ryan]

No, it's. It's.

[Nick]

It's.

[Ryan]

It, like, it's sad. I. I mean, him. I think he's healed some wounds that, like, I didn't realize were still there, so it served its purpose in the end.

[Nick]

But what wounds did he heal?

[Ryan]

Well, just, like, in terms of that, like, I was going for guys that, like, really treated me like. So it's like, why was I going for these guys and giving guys time?

[Nick]

How quickly are usually hooking up with the people you're going on dates with?

[Ryan]

I'm not really dating, to be honest. And, like, if I were to hook up with guys, like, it was more like traveling. It wasn't really from, like, where I.

[Nick]

Live, and that was just more like you just hooked up and you just kind of moved on.

[Ryan]

Guys with. I traveled with, yes. Or I would still, like, I still talk to them, but it's more like friends.

[Nick]

But it's pretty cash. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what about men that you've dated?

[Ryan]

I would say I haven't really dated a lot. Like, I dated in high school, which counts in a way. And then I had one relationship, but.

[Nick]

Okay, well, these men that you refer to, these other bad men that you usually go after, what. Who are these men and where do they fit in?

[Ryan]

I think they were just from, like, my, like, university days that, like, I would meet guys, like, at bars type of thing.

[Nick]

I mean, you're 29. What have you been doing for the past five years?

[Ryan]

Traveling, not really dating.

[Nick]

You haven't dated at all? You just. You've been just traveling and having the occasional, like, travel hookup, Buddy.

[Ryan]

Yes. I mean, I. I dated someone and we broke up, like, three or four years ago, but, yeah, that's it.

[Nick]

Okay, Well, I don't know. Maybe you just need more practice dating. Maybe you just haven't gotten out there enough. You know, maybe most of your adult life has. You, like, as you've just described was, you know, college, whatever. You know, you did your thing in college, but post college, you've been traveling, which is cool. And exciting and doing a lot of independent things, which is cool and exciting. And you've had some fun casual sex, which can be cool and exciting, and you've been able to disconnect from that sex in a way that a lot of men are able to do. And that's truly, like, you know, again, like I always say, if you're gonna. I don't. Man, woman, whatever you want to participate in copel, great, go nuts. Like sex, positivity. Have. Have your fun, but be honest with yourself about your ability or inability to disconnect emotionally from sex. Because that's all it is going to be if you don't have emotional connection. And it takes months at a minimum to have any type of emotional connection with someone. So, yeah, I know, maybe you need to kind of get out, you know. And so I don't know, what I'm hearing is you met this guy, kind of went on a couple dates. You hadn't really ever done that much in your adult life. And it felt, you know. Right. It felt good. It felt like it, you know, like you said, like it should. But, you know, you didn't really have much to go on, you know, and so maybe you need to get out there and experience more dates and some bad dates and some good dates, and you need to meet other nice people who aren't your people so that, you know, nice doesn't become your only barometer, you know?

[Ryan]

Right.

[Nick]

And it's also just as a note. I think people need to start separating hookup culture and dating culture. And the problem with dating culture is that people don't know the difference between hookup culture and dating culture. And dating culture is a lot more difficult when it starts with sex.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

It just says, doesn't make it impossible. Just makes it more difficult. It makes it more complicated. And so, you know, maybe you, when you are dating, you focus on dating and you, you know, hold, hold, hold out the sex, you know, and if, you know, when you're traveling and you're doing your thing and it's just like, hey, I want to have a good time with a sexy man in a cool place and, like, you know, not gonna fall in love because they live across the world, then do your thing, you know? But when you're going on dates with people who live in your area and you're going on a date with the, you know, thinking, I don't know, who knows what could happen, but maybe I'll like this guy. And maybe if I like this guy, maybe we could be something. And I like What I know so far, which is very little, mostly based off their bio or whatever. Or maybe you met him in person and you thought they made a good impression. You know, like if that's the type of date you're going on, maybe despite how great the date is or how much chemistry there you might feel, maybe you hold off and, and build that anticipation while you two get to know each other, you know?

[Ryan]

Yeah. So I'm finding it hard to even like, meet people. The apps suck. I mean, I, I went back on Hinge and there's one guy I'm talking to and I'm not sure, like, how that would like, work out, but I'm not really meeting people out in like, real life, so I don't know where, where I'm supposed to meet someone that like, I would potentially see as a partner or someone that I would want to date with.

[Nick]

I mean. All right, how hard are you trying? I don't know, because you make it seem like when you've traveled, you know, you've had the occasional fun hookup.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And how are you meeting them?

[Ryan]

Like at the bar.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Ryan]

Or like on like, like an adventure type of thing, like excursion.

[Nick]

Okay. I mean, listen, like, I think sometimes we have unrealistic expectations and I get it, you know, very easy to come become impatient with our love lives and dating lives. But it doesn't sound like you actually have a hard time meeting people. It sounds like maybe you're not meeting. You haven't found your person as a 29 year old. It sounds like maybe overall that there's a general frustration or a little bit of an anxiety about, like, when am I going to meet that person? At the same time, you've also have to recognize the lifestyle you've been living, you know, is one of more independence and adventure, which I think you will be very great. Older you will be very grateful for, younger you for, for having that fun. But also you have to recognize that you've made those choices and own those choices. And maybe that like you had, you were making different decisions as a 24 year old woman than maybe say, someone who was like dead set on like finding a husband and being a mom, you know? No, neither writer is wrong. You know, but now that you're 29, maybe you're a little more intentional about dating, you know, maybe you like wanna, you know, maybe like the travel hookups have just like, you know, it was fun, but like, I don't, you know, how many more of those can I do?

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So maybe you just need to like, Have a little patience. Put yourself out there. Try new things. Go on dates with people that, you know, you're not obsessed with before you even get to know them. You know, try it out. You're gonna have to be patient. But don't, you know, waste your time on people who make it very clear that they're, you know, not interested in moving forward.

[Ryan]

Right. Yeah, I wasn't. I. Before that guy had even said that he wasn't, like, he didn't have the time for me, I was like, whoa. I didn't even know that. That's like. Yeah. I thought some of the things that we had talked about, he could lead into a potential partner. But I didn't even, like, decide in my head if I had had feelings for him or he was someone that I saw myself dating. Like, it kind of, like, we got in this conversation, and then, like, that's when, like, a real what are we? Type of conversation was had. And I was like, that was kind of premature. Like, we were just hanging out and seeing how it was going. And then now it's like, okay, no, never mind.

[Nick]

Well, because you had sex, most likely.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I mean, sex for men is. Yeah, I mean, it. It keeps them interested, and I don't. Not sex, but the thought of having sex. But once men have sex with people they barely know, whether they realize it or not, like, it just kind of takes. They better just be obsessed with having sex with you. And even then when you start pulling out, like, hey, what are we? And what are we? You know, I like you, and he's just, like, on the fence about it. And if he's already had sex with you a couple times, he's just gonna be like, I'm good. I doubt he's thinking consciously. I know what it's like to have sex with her, and I don't care anymore. And I'm good. He's just like. He just doesn't think he likes you enough. You know, he's not that curious about you anymore. You know, you need curiosity to stay interested. You know, he did things that were new for you, right? You had dated. It sounds like you. You know, by your own admission, you've dated these shitty men or whatever. Or. Or also, like, maybe you just weren't dating all that much. You were traveling and. And, you know, being Ms. Independent, which is great. And now you've decided, all right, I. I want to date more intentionally now for the sake of maybe finding a person. Right. So you meet this guy. He's pretty nice. It's a little Different. He's opening doors. And for you, that sparked your curiosity, and that was enough for you to say, ooh, I'd like to learn more, you know? And I think women, when it comes to sex, typically, not always will be bonded to the people they have sex with for no other reason than that they had sex. And you will feel a pull and connection to this person you had sex with without even being able to explain it. Where men on the other side are like, yeah, I don't know. I kind of need you to give me, like, 30 minutes. I don't honestly even want you around me right now. Because their body chemistry is telling him a different thing, you know? And there was nothing that made him curious about you to want to learn more.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And that's. Again, that's not to. That's not a reflection on you or not to make you feel bad, you know, it's just like, that's human inter. I don't know. There's a lot of people who are not interested in getting to know me more and vice versa. Like, and they might have thought I was a nice guy. They might even thought I was attractive. I don't know. But maybe my quirky, aloof, kind of very unique personality wasn't the right fit for them, you know, And I wasn't their cup of tea. I was fine. I was nice. I was a cool hang. You know, maybe they even enjoyed some of my bed skills. But, like, at the end of the day, maybe I just wasn't their guy, you know? Like, it's not. You know, you're not for everyone. You're not supposed to be, and not everyone's for you, you know, that's where you have to get your ego out of all this.

[Ryan]

But, yeah, my thought was kind of coming into play was that, like, my ego was like, oh, like, I can't.

[Macy]

Believe it type of thing.

[Ryan]

And, like, the rejection kind of like.

[Nick]

Sure, there's a little bit of that. Yeah, there's a little. That. There's probably a little bit of, like, you having sex with this guy a few times and that. That bot. That made you feel connected to him more than it made him feel connected to you. He also, again, did some things that were new to you and you enjoyed the newness and it intrigued you, and he didn't get the same feeling. And again, you're also looking for maybe a boyfriend. He's also not looking for a girlfriend. There was a lot of things that played into why this didn't work out. You know what? You need to have happen is have it not like just you up or have you just like, you know, become obsessed in a way with this guy and just chalk it up to be like, yeah, you know, just not my guy, as opposed to like not listening to him and accepting his answer and just taking it for what it is is like, I don't know, he's just not that into you.

[Ryan]

Yeah. When, when I wrote in to speak with you, it was like the first week after we had just stopped talking. So. And then like I've been processing it the last couple weeks. I'm like, okay, I think I'm good with like where I'm at with it, but I just wanted more of that, like validation and like reassurance from you. Because all like everything that you're saying I've already like processed in my head and I'm in therapy talk. We talked about this like with my therapist and about. Okay, like, this is someone who's been showing new things for me. But okay, now it's my turn to kind of write on paper what I do want from a partner and what are things that I'll be looking for in non negotiables and that type of stuff. So if, if anything, he showed me some qualities that I will now demand type of thing in my next partner.

[Nick]

Or just, you know, look for, you know, look for.

[Ryan]

Yeah, sorry. Well, yeah, not demand. He must open my, my door, but like things that I won't like settle for type of without.

[Nick]

Yeah. And just remember, when it comes to you dating, it's a lot easier to make clear decisions when sex isn't involved, at least before you really know who they are. And again, that's. I'm not here to tell you who you shouldn't have sex with or how fast you should have sex. I just want you and anyone listening just to be honest. Just respect what sex is and be honest with yourself about what you want to get out of that relationship or that interaction. And just be honest with yourself about how sex is going to change that dynamic because it always does. And then, you know, just make a decision.

[Ryan]

Right.

[Nick]

But yeah, I get the impression from you that hookup culture and, and dating culture, there's really been no difference for you. Right. And a lot of what you've done in your twenties is more participate in hookup culture, which again, older you is going to be very appreciative of that. Right. I'm very grateful, you know, for all the wondering, when am I going to meet my person? And if you would have told 25 year old me that I wasn't going to meet my person until I was 40. I would have panicked, you know, but now that I'm in the position that I'm in, I, I, I am not, like, wishing I was out at the clubs. I'm not wondering what I gave up. I had a lot of fun. I got to do all the things I wanted to do. I have no regrets. I still am in a relationship where I do a lot of cool and exciting things. So be glad that you've this life. Be thankful for it. And now that you are, it's, you know, you're kind of. It almost sounds like you're in a transitional period from dating more for fun and excitement and for sex. And now you're, you know, you're getting older, you're approaching 30, and now you want to make some changes in your life. So I think maybe slow down a little bit, take it easy on yourself, be a little patient, and just be mindful of your choices.

[Ryan]

Yeah, I think you're right, because I think I spent the majority of, of, like, my 20s traveling and working and working to travel and then taking, like, five, six weeks off to go do that, so then I wouldn't have time to, to date. So that always got put on a back burner. But I also didn't, I didn't really want to date. Like, I didn't want to open myself up to, like, potentially get hurt again. So now that, like, I'm in a spot in my life where I feel like I have my ducks in a row, I'm ready to kind of take that, like, next chapter of life with someone else. Like, it is, like, discouraging when someone who I thought, like, maybe could have been someone cool to date didn't feel the same. Like, that's where, like, the ego and, like, the rejections, like, God damn, like.

[Nick]

Okay, well, welcome to the club. You know, it's part of life.

[Ryan]

Such as life. Say, love you.

[Nick]

There you go. All right, well, hopefully this was helpful. I think you, you know, you need to let this. It's getting weird for you to, like, keep talking about him and not accepting it. So, you know.

[Ryan]

Yeah, I, I was in the accepting part of it. I just wanted to chat with you.

[Nick]

All right, well, go forth and prosper and just be patient.

[Macy]

Podcast is great.

[Ryan]

Cast is great. Listening to it.

[Nick]

Thank you very much. I appreciate it. And good luck with love. Take it easy on yourself. It sounds like you're doing just fine. This guy. You up a little bit?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, I'm good, though.

[Ryan]

I got my girls. If anything, well, then that's great.

[Nick]

But also like, like, you have to put, you have to be willing to get hurt to find love.

[Ryan]

Yuck.

[Nick]

You'll live. It's fine. It, honestly, it's, it can be fun. Like, what's the, what's the point of life without feeling? I don't know, Like, I'm, I'm being serious though. Like, pain is a part of life and I'm not saying like go seek out pain, but like when you look back, I don't know, you're 29 years old, think about your. I imagine some of your most memorable experiences the past nine years were, were included adversity of some kind. And some of your best moments reflecting back is how you overcame that adversity. And those become memorable stories. They become things that we, you know, connect with. But you have to go through the fire to be able to reflect back and think about how you got through the fire. Right. So like, I'm not saying going out there and yourself up and go put yourself in situations that will hurt you, but don't avoid living your life, you know, knowing that like that might cause you some pain by putting yourself out there and being vulnerable. Because that is, that is life.

[Ryan]

Yeah, that's something that my therapist and I are talking about right now. Is that like the famous quote of would you rather love and lost or just like not kind of love at all? And I feel like I've always led towards that. Rather just never known what it was. So then I'm not, not missing it after. It's like been lost, you know?

[Nick]

Yeah, it's. Wrong answer.

[Ryan]

Well, it's a protective factor, I get it.

[Nick]

But you know how to take risks. You travel like you worked to travel, you know. You know, and yeah, you tell me, did you not face any adversity over the past nine years?

[Ryan]

Oh, I have, yeah.

[Nick]

Do you regret everything you got to do?

[Caller]

No.

[Nick]

Would you change anything?

[Ryan]

No. No.

[Nick]

I mean, yeah, I'm sure you made some, you know, but overall, would you, you know, so then, then you're kind.

[Ryan]

It's always made me wiser.

[Nick]

Like I feel like there you go, you're contradicting yourself by saying that you would rather not know, you know, I know and that's fine. Listen, like that sounds kind of, you're only 29, but like some of that is perspective and maturity and you know, like, hopefully like, I don't know, I hope most 29 year olds think they have more maturing. I hope I have more maturing to do you know? And part of becoming more mature is not, not having that, like, too afraid to live your life mentality. So. All right, okay. Go live your life. Go make some bad decisions. Have some fun. You know, you'll be, you'll be okay. Okay. All right.

[Ryan]

Thanks so much.

[Nick]

All right. Bye. Bye.

[Ryan]

Take care. Bye.

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[Caller]

Months.

[Nick]

Hi, I'm Chris Getherd and I'm very excited to tell you about Beautiful Anonymous, a podcast where I talk to random people on the phone. I tweet out a phone number. Thousands of people try to call you talk to one of them. They stay anonymous. I can't hang up. That's all the rules. I never know what's going to happen. We get serious ones. I've talked with meth dealers on their way to prison. I've talked to people who survived mass shootings. Crazy funny ones. I talked to a guy with a gun. Goose Laugh. Somebody who dresses up as a pirate on the weekends. I never know what's going to happen. It's a great show. Subscribe today. Beautiful Anonymous how's it going?

[Macy]

It's going good, Nick, thank you. My Name's Macy. I'm 25 and I am struggling setting boundaries with my mom.

[Nick]

Say more.

[Macy]

So as far as I know, no one's ever set boundaries with her before. And over the past year she has been inserting her opinion in My life. Life in a lot of places where I feel like it is harming me. And when I've tried to say to her, hey, respectfully, like, this is not behavior I want in my life. This is not good for me. Can you please not talk about this situation? She completely disregards what I'm saying, or at least it comes off that way. And I've recognized a pattern of her defending her actions and not taking accountability when she hurts me or oversteps. And so I'm not sure how to have that conversation and say, mom, I am setting boundaries with you without her going to that defense and actually listening to what I need from her.

[Nick]

Well, I don't know if the second part's possible, but what are some of the boundaries you're trying to set with her?

[Macy]

Okay, so to give a little bit of background, I've been with my boyfriend for almost a year and this is the first healthy relationship I've ever been in. He is so sweet, so amazing, so loving. He has his downfalls, like all of us do. And she's only met him twice and immediately, well, he has anxiety, I have anxiety. And so he's not always his best self around people when he's nervous. Hence my parents, the two times he met them.

[Nick]

So he doesn't make a great first impression. Sounds like maybe.

[Macy]

Yeah, yeah, if you're not super open to a lot of things, which I don't feel like my mom intends to be, but she likes to act like she's really big on mental health. But when I say, oh, I have anxiety, it's why I don't understand. You have a great life. So she doesn't tend to get mental health, doesn't have a why, and I'm a therapist, so that's very frustrating. But so basically she judges my boyfriend a lot and then talks really negatively about him to me. And when I try to explain like, hey, this is why this happens, she just creates another reason, doesn't listen, and then continues to dislike him and hasn't really given him a chance to prove himself to her. And it's. He's done for. So setting that's hard. And then anytime I just explain how I feel about situations, she says, you're young, I have more life experience than you, and just disregards the next thing that comes out of my mouth.

[Nick]

So what's your goal with your mom?

[Macy]

My goal is to get her to be more open minded to things that she thinks she understands but doesn't and just not be so judgmental of my decisions in My life, my choices, and not inserting her opinion every time she feels the need to. And trust my judgment. Really?

[Nick]

Okay, I think that's your problem. What I mean by that is, bear with me here. But, you know, you called in and your headline was, I need to. I need help setting boundaries with my mom. Yeah. Then you told a little bit of your story, a little background, your boyfriend. Then I asked, what. What is your goal with your mom? And your goal was, I. I basically want my mom to change. You know, I want my mom to see the world a little differently. I want her to be more empathetic, to agree with me. You know, I'm paraphrasing what you said, but, you know, listen, like, that's a. That's a very different goal than just simply setting a boundary with your mom. And that's why I think you're having such a hard time setting a boundary with your mom, because that's not really your goal. You said you're a therapist. You went to school for therapy. You're. Yeah, right. So you know that. Right. You don't need me telling that. But obviously you're emotionally connected to this situation, and so you're having a harder time see it clearly. But it's just much hard, you know? Like, I'm not saying it's impossible, but that's why you're struggling, because you're saying it is like, oh, I just want my mom to respect my boundaries. And what you're really saying is, I want my mom to kind of, like, evolve and grow and maybe recognize that, you know, maybe she's older and has more lived experience than me, but I need her to recognize that maybe I know a little bit, too. And I've gone to school, and I studied mental health, and maybe she's not always right. And I would like her to recognize that, and I would like her to give my boyfriend more of a benefit of the doubt. And I'd like, you know. You know what I'm saying. That's what I'm really hearing from you. Yeah.

[Macy]

And that's. That's very true. I have said those exact words. I need her to change in order for this relationship to get fixed, because we used to be very, very close. Like, I told her more than most people probably think I should. And then I think that's where the disconnect is, is now I'm completely pulling back because I just don't feel like she supports me. And so I guess maybe how can I get her to not always defend her actions, but take accountability When I.

[Nick]

Say I'm hurt, I don't know if you can get her to do that. You know, that might be her journey, so to speak. I think you need to be okay with not getting what you want from your mom for a period of time and being okay with that and allowing your mom to change on her own if she is willing. Right. And I think that's the disconnect that you're having that I think a lot of people have in the kind of the parent child relationship. You're 25 years old. Old. You've been an adult for seven years. So seven out of your 25 years, you've been an adult. And of those 18 of those years, your mom was in charge of you. She was your parent, she was your legal guardian. She was legally allowed to tell you what to do. You know, you kind of had to obey her, you know, and now you're an adult. You're your own woman, you're making life for yourself. It's very challenging for parents to just change on a dime and, and understand the, the shift in the dynamic. And I'm also guessing that of those seven years of your adult life, the first couple of them were very much similar to the relationship you had when you weren't an adult with your mom. And, you know, she was the person you went to and told all these things, and she was kind of your best friend, and you kind of had the best of both worlds for a period of time. Maybe like when you were 18 and 19 and 20, and you're like, I'm, I'm an adult now, and now I get to talk, and now me and my mom get to be friends, and that's fun. But then, then you met a guy and you fell in love and like, you know, there was a little bit of conflict there. I don't know, maybe part of the way your mom feels and acts towards him is also just a response to her losing a little bit of her daughter, you know, and that independence that you so much want from your mom, not only independence, but respect. You want your mom to see you as the woman you've decided to become, and you want her to recognize and acknowledge the work you've put into the person that you are today. And you're not getting that from your mom right now. And I think part of what you need to do is just kind of be okay with the fact that life's changing and you and your mom are going through this kind of shift in your relationship and you're not going to be able to kind of tell her what to do or force her to change in any short period of time. And you might just have to let things play out. If you truly feel like you've met the right person, at least right now it's a relatively new relationship, but you feel really good about it. You feel good about who you are dating, you feel good about your decisions. If you are right, your mom will come around. But right now the relationship's so new and so early and maybe he's a little introverted and a little neurotic and a little anxious so that when he's around large groups of people or new people, he doesn't give off the best first impression. I've been that guy before I've been your boyfriend. I have not got given the best first impression to like people's parents that I've dated. And I've always thought to myself, I trust me, I'm a great guy. Like I will, I'm respectful, I'm 10 times better than any guy that you know, like what matters, right or wrong. I was imperfect, but I, I always cared about being a stand up guy. But like I, I haven't always given off that impression at times, you know, fair or not or. What I'm saying is if you're right, you know, you don't need your mom's approval. You know, you don't need her permission. She'll come around, you know, she will eventually get to know your boyfriend, if he lasts, if this relationship lasts, she will get more opportunities to see how he makes you feel and how happy you are. He'll get to, she'll get to see, she'll come around. Until then you just have to be okay with not getting moms approved approval. And I think that's what you're struggling with the most, is that you use, you're used to having this relationship with your mom and her being your best friend and really being connected with your mom and your mom probably let me know if I'm wrong was a driving force. And you getting the validation that you wanted and, and to kind of check in with yourself to make sure that you're making the right decisions. And she was a good barometer for those choices. Now you feel more independent and capable of making those choices on your own. You'd still like to get mom's approval because it's always nice to have mom's approval, but mom's a little resistant to give that approval because you don't really need her approval anymore and she's trying to fight for her supper when it comes to this relationship.

[Macy]

Yeah, that. That resonates a lot. Absolutely. I guess. How? Because every time I say to myself, I'm going to have this conversation, whatever it looks like, whether it's, mom, this is what I need from you. This is what I'm not going to hear about anymore. Like, the amount of times I've said to her, I need you to be open minded to giving him a second chance. I need you to not be so hypercritical of every move he makes. I need you to have a clean slate. She just shuts down and doesn't do it. So how do I say those things to her without. I guess I have so much anxiety about doing it because I'm so sick of being shut down. And I want to reiterate, this is the last time I'm having this conversation with you. Like, even. Either you hear me or you don't. And I want us to get back on track. But also, I've done everything I can.

[Nick]

Why are he so dug in with this guy? Like, what. What does she have to give him another chance for? Did he, like, do something or is it just like, she was just rubbed the wrong way? She.

[Macy]

So basically what it was was. I don't really know what went wrong the first time, other than. So I know. I listen to your podcast all the time, especially the. As Nick.

[Nick]

Like.

[Macy]

Like anxiety. You've experienced it? I have it when I'm anxious. Like my boyfriend. We don't eat. Like, there's no appetite. My family's a big drinking family, so we were all drinking. He was anxious. He didn't eat. He got a little too drunk. I don't think that's that big of a deal. We've all been there before, including my parents. Everybody was drunk, so I don't know why that was.

[Nick]

Did he do anything when he was drunk or he was just clearly drunk. And your parents felt like it was a little disrespectful and rude for him to get drunk around him.

[Macy]

He threw up in the toilet. That was the catalyst.

[Nick]

Oh, well, I mean, I'm a puker when it comes to drinking. Not a crime. So that's.

[Macy]

I didn't.

[Nick]

So he can't hold his liquor. I. He didn't. He didn't mouth off or say anything rude, you know? No, he just.

[Macy]

No, no. And then she doesn't like that he cusses a lot, but I cuss a lot. She doesn't like that he smokes weed. I also use weed. Like, it's not that Big of a deal.

[Nick]

And so listen.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And my parents are big drinkers.

[Nick]

Anyways, listen, I. I think it just comes down. I think you're being a little stubborn here in the sense that, like, why you. Why do you think you need to repeat yourself with your mom and. And. And have. And try to have that conversation for one more time? Like, why. Why even have the conversation?

[Macy]

Because she's been my best friend for so long. I feel like I've lost that person and I want that back. But I also know I can't sacrifice myself and I can't have that relationship with her if I can't talk about the person that I love and that I'm with.

[Nick]

With.

[Macy]

Without getting criticism back.

[Nick]

Okay, well, listen, you're gonna. That's kind of back. My point is just like, I think you need to accept that right now you're not going to get everything you want in this moment, because I don't. I don't. I don't know. I'm not aware. And I don't think I'm in a position to help you say the magic thing. You're obviously smart enough. She's your mom. She's your best friend. You know her as well as anyone, and you don't know what to say to her. And I guess I don't know if there's anything to say. You know, she has decided for whatever reason, and I'm guessing the reason is just like she's also going through this transitional period with you. She's not seeing it clearly. You know, that's the thing. Right now, you would be better off focusing on empathizing with your mom's point of view just so not to agree with mom. Put. To understand your mom. And I might only say that because then you can either do one of two things. You can. Can. You can give in to your mom, which I don't think you should do, or you can just accept that, like, moms isn't mom. Mom can't see it right now. She doesn't want to lose her baby, so to speak. And you're only 25, and right now she feels like she's not worried about your biological clock because you're only seven years removed from being adult. And right now she just, like, decided that you have to date the perfect person. And she. Honestly, that person probably doesn't even exist right now. And your boyfriend has done enough to things that just, like, rubbed her the wrong way, and she's just taking it out on him because at the end of the day, she wants her best friend back. But like that's not right and, or healthy, you know that. But like convincing, you know, explaining that to your mom, I just think is a winless battle. I think you have to show your mom that you're happy, that you're confident in your decision. In the meantime, you don't need me to say this to you, but like, you set boundaries for yourself and you enforce them with other people. And as I've always said, said anytime that you have to enforce a boundary with someone else, they will always be annoyed because a boundary is limiting access that someone used to have to you or they at least assume they would always have it. That's exactly what your mom is having a hard time doing. She assumes that she could kind of tell you what to do, offer you advice that you would definitely take. You know, be the primary decision maker in your life again. Seven years ago she, she didn't even get to ask. She could just tell you what to do and you would have to listen to a certain point, right. And it's just drastically changed and you are fighting for your independence. You know, it happens to be with your mom. It's a pretty normal rite of passage I think in a parent child relationship, especially relationship that was so close and so connected, you know, it's hard to see the forest through the trees so much. So I just think, think you're might be better off taking a beat yourself and not trying to like you're just gonna have to accept yourself that maybe right now you're in your mom's relationship is, is in a bit of a transitional period. And as a result of this transitional period, it's. It's not going to feel like it used to. I am confident it will again someday. But that's just going to get your. Your mom's gonna have to slowly come around and accept the new reality of that relationship. And what you have going for you is that she is your mom and she loves you unconditionally. And the downside of that is that when people know they, they're not going to lose someone, they, it gives them permission to fight even harder and to be that much more stubborn because they're not actually afraid of losing you. So that's what makes it more irritating because like there's that much more defiant. But eventually when your mom really knows that like you, your own person and that a relationship with you means having to respect your choices and, and bite her tongue because if not you will enforce a boundary and that boundary is going to be less of you and less a relationship with you and less quality time or access to your boyfriend because you feel. You know. And you could say, mom, listen, like, I. You have. You're. You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm safe and I'm happy, and I. Unless you don't think I'm capable of. Of knowing that it's none of your business how much he swears or smokes weed. And he's not. He doesn't quite honestly need you to approve of him. Because I approve of him, and. And he treats me better than anyone I've ever had before. And I'm not asking for your approval. And part of the reason your mom keeps demanding that you take her approval is because you are still kind of asking for it and you're still seeking it. And the moment you stop seeking your mom's approval is probably the moment she'll stop trying to give.

[Macy]

It does make a lot of sense, and I guess kind of, in a way, does make me feel better because I do want her approval. But, yeah, I do know I don't need it. And I don't really need anyone's because I know I'm making the right choices in my life. Is there anything I can say? Because multiple family members do this part. A lot of family members think that their opinion can be given anywhere, and then now that's fact, and you better act on that or I'm gonna give you shit for it.

[Nick]

Give me an example of what you mean by that.

[Macy]

Same situation or similar situation. My brother told me that he didn't like certain things I was doing, as in, I don't know why. They're hypercritical of words, but using specific words, like I called my dog stupid or something, and he didn't like it.

[Ryan]

I don't know.

[Macy]

But so he'll give his opinion. Like, you need to not use this word, or you need to not say this to mom or do this. And if I say, okay, I heard you, but then I don't listen to him, it's, oh, so you don't care what I have to say, and you're going down a bad path, and they just think their opinion needs to be my truth.

[Nick]

I think you just need to stop caring.

[Macy]

I wish it was that easy.

[Nick]

I mean, it is. It is. I mean, I give. I know it's easier said than done. And listen, I just have a personality that I've just. I've always been very confident in my choices. You know, I've made bad choices, I've made wrong choices. I've had to learn from some of my choices, but in general, I've always felt confident about my choices. You know, I've had to have the, again, the humility to learn sometimes. But, yeah, you, you, there's, there's something in you, right, that's, for whatever reason, needs the approval from not only mom, but other family members. And I've, you know, I've always, I've always been someone who's just like, you know, I, I love validation and I've, I found different ways to get it right, but I've always been pretty confident in my choices. I've think them through. I'm, I've never been that impulsive and I'm good at learning from my mistakes. So, like, you know, I've always just been confident in my choices. So at times when I've done things that other people wouldn't have given me that advice, I, I still owned my choices. I mean, I told this story recently, but one of the few of my friends whose opinions I care about, who knew me and Natalie, and they ended up marrying us, by the way. When I was like, on the fence about, like, dating someone a lot younger than me, and I was just like, I, you know, and Natalie was like, really kind of done with the bullshit and, and us like, just not being a boyfriend and girlfriend, I called him up and I was like, I'm really thinking about doing this. And they were like, we love her, we think she's great, but we don't think you should. And I took their advice. I listened to their advice. I, I was disappointed in their advice because their advice mattered to me. You know, it wasn't the answer I wanted to hear. And I thought about it and I, I, and then ultimately I didn't take their advice. You know, and in that moment, I didn't take their advice. I just had to be confident in my choice. I didn't know if I was going to be right or wrong. I made a decision based off the fact that, like, listen, if it doesn't work out, it won't work out, but, like, I'm going to try this thing and, and I didn't call up my friends. And that's the difference between you and I right now. I didn't call up my friends and say, hey, listen, I disagree with you and here's, here's why. I'm going to make this choice. And do you agree with me now? I didn't need their approval. You know what I'm saying? I got their opinion. I asked for it. They gave Me, an honest answer. It's not what I wanted. And I went a different way and I was comfortable with that choice. You. You want to go back to that person and say. And then convince them to agree with you so that you can feel better about that decision you're making. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. Does that sound accurate?

[Macy]

Yeah, it's, it's, it's very accurate. You're. You're hitting it all like you normally do with everybody.

[Nick]

So. And that's a you problem. That's a you problem. Right. That's something you need to work on, and that's something you can work on, and that's something you can control because you can't control mom, and, and mom's got to work on herself. And the moment you fix it and the moment you fix that and then. And that's when you'll. You'll get. Your, Your mom will come back. She will. But your brother and your family member and especially your mom know that you really need their approval and that's why they're so willing to give it. And, and that's why it sometimes feels a little manipulative on their part. And honestly, it probably is. But, you know, when we know that we can influence someone, we usually try.

[Macy]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because I don't seek that much approval from my dad and I get more approval from him probably because of that.

[Nick]

There you go. Yeah.

[Macy]

Well, that makes sense.

[Nick]

So. Yeah.

[Macy]

So I guess it's not even, you.

[Nick]

Know, you got to own your choice.

[Macy]

Not even setting boundari is. Yeah. It's just not caring as much and being confident in that. I know I'm doing what works for me.

[Nick]

Yeah. Do you feel good about the man you're dating?

[Macy]

I feel incredibly good about him.

[Nick]

Great. Why do you need anyone else's approval?

[Macy]

I don't. You're right. I don't. It's. I've. It's been hammered in me that I do my whole life, and I'm realizing I don't.

[Nick]

Yeah. And when your brother or anyone else says this thing that, you know, just be like, listen, you take care of you. You. I'll take care of me. I love you. I respect. Listen, I respect your opinion, but respecting your opinion doesn't mean I'm always going to take your advice. You know, my friends also didn't get mad at me. And then, you know, like, people often have to understand is when you ask, like they. People should be flattered when anyone comes to them and says, hey, can I ask Your opinion. Because, honestly, I'm not interested in most people's opinions because I think most people are stupid. But just because I ask your opinion doesn't mean I'm going to take your advice. It just means I respect you enough to ask. Ask. But also, like, there's other maybe.

[Macy]

That's what I need to say.

[Nick]

Maybe. But it still comes down to you owning your choices and. And not needing their approval. And whatever you say, I promise you will have less of an impact than your actions. Because right now, you saying it will still try to sound like you're convincing them to trust your opinions and trust your decisions for yourself. Again, that's the thing. The more confident you are in your choices, the less people will bother you. I have always demonstrated a confidence level that, you know, my parents always been like, well, you know, listen, you're. You know, my parents have always thought of me as someone who, like, generally makes sound decisions. They never really tried to change my mind because, like, yeah, he seems confident. He knows what he's doing. And you're not making any. You're not making crazy decisions. Right. You know, it's not like you brought home this problematic man who's just, like, full of red flags. They're, like, nitpicking because they can. Right? Right.

[Macy]

You know, exactly.

[Nick]

And you get rattled every time they pick, and you being rattled is their green light to keep going.

[Macy]

So I guess my last question is, I told my mom that I wanted her to come visit in the next week or two to have the conversation we need to have, which I thought was going to be the setting boundaries. But now I realize I just need to not seek their approval and not care and let her come around. So that's what I do about that.

[Nick]

Well, if you still want to visit your mom, just be like, hey, mom, you're welcome to come. When you're here, just know that, like, you're at my place and, like, you don't have to approve of him and you don't have to even like it. You have to be respectful because you're in my house.

[Macy]

I like that. I like that.

[Nick]

You know, but maybe also don't even say anything. Maybe. Maybe let your mom come see how she acts. If your mom acts up in a way that you find to be disrespectful to either. Either you or your boyfriend, I wouldn't, like, create a scene while he's there, because that just makes everyone uncomfortable. Yeah. But after she leaves, you can say, hey, I really did not appreciate. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'M not going to invite you back anymore until I feel more respected. And what you can say to your mom if you have to say anything at all is. And. And here's the big difference, because right now, you're like, mom, I want to talk to you about how I want you to be around me so I could be. It's just Mom. You're negotiating with her. Don't do that. You're like, mom, you know, this is where you set the boundary. You don't get to treat me that way. You know, like I'm an adult person. I'm. I'm happy with my choices. I don't need you to be happy with my choices. I do miss our relationship, and I miss my friend. But things have changed. You know, I'm an adult, and I no longer need your permission or approval to make decisions for myself. I'm okay with that. That. And I still want to be able to ask your advice, mom, because I do respect you. And more than anyone, you're the person's advice I care about the most. But I don't always have to take your advice. And when I don't take your advice, you need to be okay with that, because I know I am. And I'm not. I'm just not going to hear it. And if you keep acting this way around me and my boyfriend, the only thing that's going to happen is we're going to lose our relationship friendship, and we're going to be less close. And that's up to you, mom, because I hate that we've gotten this far, but the choice is yours. And that to you, setting that boundary and communicating exactly what will happen if your mom doesn't respect that boundary. And then you simply need to follow through. But there's a big difference between that and then pleading with her and saying, please do this, or I need you to come around and please like him and please be nice to my boyfriend friend. You don't need your mom to do any of those things.

[Macy]

Yep, you're right. Those were the words that I needed to. To figure out and hear, because that's. That's what I need to do. And once I say it, I have to enforce it.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Macy]

Well, thank you. I really appreciate it.

[Nick]

Was it helpful?

[Macy]

It was. It was very helpful.

[Nick]

All right, well, good luck. Yeah. It's your. The best. The best news. I think the big takeaway is this, is that the thing that needs to change for you to get what you want is the things that you actually can control. And that. And that comes from inside of you. And the other stuff will all fall in line once you're able to work on that needing certain people in your life's approval. Just walk through your choices. Why am I making this decision? What have I? If I consider the pros and the cons, yeah, I could be wrong. But like, if, if I'm wrong, will I still feel good about why I made this decision? You know? Yes. Great. Then I don't need anyone else's approval. Evil. And you need to be good at asking people's opinions without having to take their opinion.

[Ryan]

Yep.

[Macy]

I absolutely need to do that. And maybe that's what I'll focus on when I restart my own therapy.

[Nick]

There you go. All right, well, good luck. Take care. Keep us posted how things go with Mom. We'd love an update. Regardless of how things go.

[Macy]

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

[Nick]

All right, take care.

[Macy]

Thank you. Thank you guys so much.

[Nick]

Bye Bye.

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