Nick (2:30)

I mean, it almost sounds like when we first heard a city sitter, it sounded crazy to like book a babysitter online. But think about it, when was the last time you were able to do a background check on your sitter? Probably never. But it's a peace of mind that Sitter City gives you when you are searching for a babysitter and the information you can get about the person watching your kid is second to none.

Rachel (2:47)

Go to sittercity.com to find the care your family deserves. Breathe easier knowing your kids are in good hands. Visit sittercity.com today.

Buffy (2:56)

You're crazy.

Nick (3:07)

How's it going?

Chelsea (3:08)

Great.

Caller F (3:09)

My name is Rachel, I'm 37 and my boyfriend's 8 year old runs the house. What do I do?

Nick (3:17)

All right, well, sorry to hear.

Caller F (3:21)

Me too.

Nick (3:22)

Tell me more, tell me more.

Caller F (3:24)

Yeah, so my boyfriend and I, we both separated. I met him two months after my separation, four months after his separation. So very, very soon after we both divorced. And so he co parents with his ex wife. I have lots of feelings on that whole situation so. But they share 50, 50 custody and so the first six months of me meeting my boyfriend, it was just, it was wonderful. It was, you know, hot and heavy. We got to travel, we just had lots of fun. And then six months in, I met his son who was seven at the time and kind of reality started to hit a little bit. I saw him as a different person, which was really beautiful. I wanted to meet him as a dad because I just met him as my boyfriend first, you know, and, and it was great, I'd say at first. And then I just started realizing that, you know, between him and his ex wife, they were both kind of vying for the good par. They want to be the best one, which means no rules, no responsibilities, no expectations. And it started to really grind my gears. Brought up a lot of stuff from my own childhood because I Was raised in a very kind of authoritarian disciplinarian home. We had responsibility since we were like four years old. So I'm worried that he's raising an enabled child. I'm worried that he's, well, an enabled child. Boy who will become an enabled man, which I just, we just know better now and that, you know, between him and his ex wife, they're just, they're kind of. I'm just worried about their parenting style.

Nick (5:01)

Where does your general worry come from? Is it like, and I'm sure it's in all, all of the buckets on some degree, but is it like from the point of view is the girlfriend who just finds this 8 year old is kind of irritating? Is it just from like, you know, your love for your boyfriend in a sense that like, you know, you have some notes for him as a father, you know, just from your perspective or is it just like, yeah, you're, you're legitimately worried about this boy turn growing up to be a fuck. Where do you think? Like, I guess where, where does your motivation come from? Which bucket do you think it's more is driving your concern?

Caller F (5:40)

I thought about this a lot and I truly feel like it's coming from that third bucket of like he's almost nine and, and cannot, you know, he, like, he's lacking some critical thinking. He can't get his own snacks in water. He doesn't know how to ride a bike or tie his shoes.

Nick (6:00)

He's 8 and he doesn't know how to ride a bike.

Caller F (6:02)

Yes, he's very averse to new experiences. So you know, if he tried, if my boyfriend tries to get him to ride a bike or even a scooter, you know, a scooter where he just has to pedal it. He just is extremely averse to new experiences. And so I feel like my boyfriend caves very fast. Instead of encouraging him and pushing him and developing confidence in the, in the child, he's just kind of like, okay, okay, okay, he's crying. Okay, he's gonna go tell my ex wife that, you know, it's so horrible at my house. And then it's gonna cause this huge thing and it's just, it's parenting from this place of fear. And I don't have kids, so I totally respect that. There are things I do not know. Well, I mean, yeah, but you know, I'm 37 and I'm a child of many divorces. You know, my mom's on her third husband, my real dad's on his third wife. It's like I just, I do have that lived experience and so I'm just like, you guys, you have a real opportunity here to align yourselves and encourage him to start critically thinking and start, you know, developing skills that and almost nine year old should have.

Nick (7:09)

Yeah. I mean not being able to tie it. I learned, I remember learning how to tie my shoes.

Caller F (7:13)

I was 4, 100 or ride my bike and I remember getting it.

Nick (7:17)

I mean tying your shoes is like a basic skill they teach you in kindergarten.

Caller F (7:21)

Yeah, well, he, Well, I guess it's different now. Turns out they're like, oh, all the shoes have velcro now or all their slip ons and it's like, I, I don't know, I just think that that's kind of a sucky excuse to be like, okay, you have to tie a knot.

Nick (7:36)

Well, yeah, but yeah, it doesn't like, or forgetting about like to your point, like your child. Children should want to and be able to learn things and discover new things and be curious and.

Caller F (7:52)

Yes.

Nick (7:52)

And yeah, they, you know, resiliency is something that I hope to teach my children very early. You know, like, I hope my children don't describe their upbringing and household as authoritarian. But like, I absolutely like the moment river like understands wants and needs and the moment she can like help, she's gonna have to earn the things that she wants versus needs. You know, like even if it's like picking up her room, you know, even if it's like the, like a stupid, silly little chore. It's just like the idea of working towards something and not just like getting something you want because you stomp your feet and throw a fit. But like you said, I mean I, I really empathize with your boyfriend because you know, that was my first thought when you brought it up. It's like, well, you know, it sounds like early separate, you know, like you guys. Well, this really has nothing to do with your guys's relationship. But. But yes, just like the, I, the, the idea notion that clearly like my guess was like he's probably worried about fighting for his son's affection. You know, that being said, like you've only been. How long you been dating this guy?

Caller F (9:02)

A year and a half.

Nick (9:03)

A year and a half. So like even before they got divorced, like what, what was this kid doing or not doing? Like.

Caller F (9:09)

Yeah.

Nick (9:10)

How toxic was their relationship? Or were they just like forgetting about their son or something? Like.

Caller F (9:16)

Yeah, it was. So she was a stay at home mom and they, they, you know, had this arrangement. She, he was pretty much, I mean, worked constantly, traveled for Work a lot. She was the primary parent. And so I believe, from my perspective, and again, this is my perspective, is that he really took a step back in the parenting role and let her do it. And he didn't agree on it. Instead of saying, listen, let's align on our parenting styles. You know, she basically was, she. This is his story that, you know, she stuck a iPad in front of his face at a very, very young age while he was eating. And so now like the screen time and food is extremely tied together. He eats just a couple of things which when I say runs the house. That's kind of what I mean. Like my boyfriend has to his own food or food for us and then food for the kid, which I, you know, I've heard from many friends that have kids at that, you know, okay, well that's normal. You say you'll never do it and then you end up doing it. But it's to an extreme level where he will try and call for his mom if, you know, if he doesn't get what he wants, food wise or screen time wise. But yeah, so, so she kind of took the primary parenting role and so now he's got 50, 50 custody and he's kind of forced to be a parent now.

Nick (10:36)

Let me ask you this, like, you have concerns. What' your boyfriend's level of concern?

Caller F (10:40)

He has gotten offensive when I bring it up, you know, like, hey, listen, I'm concerned about this and you know, it's coming from a place of like, I hope to have a kid someday. I was hoping to have a kid with my ex husband, but that didn't work out. And so I'm thinking, okay, well, is this the person I want to parent with? So I'll try to bring things up. And of course he gets defensive about his parenting style, you know, or like, my kid's going through a lot. He's dealing with the divorce, he's dealing with this and that.

Nick (11:04)

And I'm just, I mean, life is hard, you know.

Caller F (11:06)

Yeah, I know. So I'm just kind of like he's a very privileged child from two very privileged homes and I, I don't know, I just have a hard time.

Nick (11:16)

Well, I mean, this. Yeah.

Caller F (11:17)

Relating to the kid.

Buffy (11:19)

But.

Nick (11:20)

Well, listen, I guess my answer is you're just going to have to figure out a way to communicate how you feel regardless of how your boyfriend responds because his response is telling about a great many things about the relationship. You've been dating this guy for a year and a half. It's a decent amount of Time. It's relatively early. You still have a lot to learn about each other. But all I need to know is that this nine year old doesn't need to know how to ride a bike or tie their shoes to know that this kid's falling behind. And the other things that you describe honestly sound a bit alarming. I don't know how common this is, but yeah, you always hear stories about kids these days and things like that or gentle parenting and like, you know, I'm so grateful obviously that mental health is, is far more considered in general both for society, for children, that we understand childhood trauma and the impact it has on children. I'm grateful that we better understand young children and like, you know, in the first couple years, like you, it really, you can't over spoil a child. You know, like you're, it's, you know, rivers 14 months now. All right, and now she's starting to throw, starting to, you know, stomp her feet a little bit, you know, and we're, you know, we gently like, might take something away. We're not punishing her at all. You know, she's just, we're just trying to love on her, right? At some point there's going to be a time where a timeout might be needed, you know, and she's going to scream and stop her feet. Like it's interesting as a parent, you know, at first when your baby's just crying and you just want her to, you just want to take care of them and. But now we can tell the difference between she's hurt because she, she fell down and she had a boo boo versus like, nah, she's, she is expressing herself and you know, she's upset, you know, and so how we treat that is a little differently, you know, and, and we're trying to walk that fine line, but it's really concerning that, you know, there, there are children out there who are lacking emotional resilience because of, you know, a great deal of things. I mean, like, there are more and more divorces out there. I really empathize with, with both the children and parents going through divorce because yeah, it's, it's heartbreaking just because again, you want to have that connection with your child. And I, you know, I truly can't imagine. But that all being said, you know, it's, this is important, right? And especially, you know, young men need to, I really am concerned about young men period, in general. I know there's a show on Netflix, Nelly, and I haven't watched yet because we, you know, it's Dark and whatever. I think adolescents or whatever. Just like all the kids who grew up in the pandemic on their phones, on Snapchat, were parents, you know, really didn't understand the dangers. You know, they didn't understand that these. These devices were weapons. These devices were. Were an access point for. For literal predators to have access to their children. Those predators could be people. Those predators could just be websites, algorithms. You know, it's a scary world out there, and you need diligent parents to be. You know, loving your child isn't just. It's not being best friends with your child. Yeah. It's not being the favorite parent. Loving your child is sometimes saying, no.

Caller F (14:40)

Oh, yeah. And it's easy for me, I think, again, to kind of come in and be like, wow, I'm seeing this from a bird's eye view. Like, I see the future. I see. Oh, God. But, you know, sometimes my boyfriend will say, you know, they kind of joke, you know, it's, we're just pals. We're bros. And I'm like, but you're not bros. You're his dad. Like, you're his father. Like, it's fun to have, like a night where you're like, yeah, we're just palling around or we're going to bro time out. But like, they always say it, and I think it's softening the relationship between him and he's afraid to sort of.

Nick (15:13)

Yeah.

Caller F (15:13)

Be a parent, you know, and. But I will say that we had just started last week couples therapy pretty much around the kid, although I sort of didn't say it was for the kid. But, you know, I also want to know kind of what my role is and if I'm stepping into this. I've met the ex wife. I think she's fine. She's lovely. She's very kind to me. I do worry about their ability to even communicate, which I think has an effect on the child. But couples therapy went great, and I was amazed about how non defensive my boyfriend was. So I was like, okay, so there is hope here. Because at first I was like, you know, for the first probably six months, I was like, oh, God, he's not listening to me. I worry about this, but I guess I do think that there is hope, which is great. Yeah.

Nick (16:03)

I mean, first of all, the fact that you guys are in couples therapy is a great sign. Right? Like, that's obviously that just the opportunity to have a mediator is always helpful. I would say just try to come from a place of support and empathy. You Know, Natalie and I were, you know, obviously, as. As new parents kind of. We do a lot of talking about what we think we might do as parents as river gets older, and we're just kind of figuring it out. Obviously, it's very fun to, you know, and we're very privileged and fortunate for, you know, as parents to take a quick trip to New York and. And stop at a baby store and. And buy something for river because it's fud. And truly, it's, like, more for us than for River. You know, like, she gets excited, but we. Getting her excited. But, you know, Natalie and I have talked about, you know, when she get older, we have to be careful, you know, and we've talked about how we want our daughter or kids in general to behave around adults and. And how we want them to be respectful and how we want them to, you know, grow up in this world. And I think it just comes down to, like, maybe, you know, again, empathize. First. It's always empathizing with their position, you know, empathizing with the fact that, like, as a single dad going through a divorce, totally get the fear of not being connected with his son for fear, you know, because he has the chance for mom to be the fun parent. But it really is, like, what. You know, I would ask, what. What do you want for your son? I'm guessing his answer might just be like, I want him to be happy. But honestly, like, that is not my goal for River. My goal for river is to, like, teach her the skills so that she has the ability to build a life for herself as an adult that will eventually bring her happiness. But, like, happiness comes from, you know, she has to be able to overcome adversity in order to be happy. She has to be able to chase her and pursue her dreams. She has to be able to. Yeah. You know, and in pursuit of those dreams, you have to. Yeah, you have to. You know, there's a lot of things that you have to develop and do and go through in order, and happiness is so subjective. Like, what is happiness? You know, like, you know, just because you. You get the Skittles, you know, and you're happy for in that moment. Like, is that. Is that happiness? You know, I want my kid to be able to, like, pursue their life, you know, and. And be able to face life as life comes at them. So it's. I think it's just more asking your boyfriend what. What he wants for his son. How does he want his son to be able to interact with. As he gets into middle School and poor middle school is mean. High school is tough. You know, if this is a kid who's just so coddled and so bubbled and from any discomfort really like how is this kid going to deal with the world not caring about his comforts? And I, maybe that's a way to ask that question. The world is, is doesn't really care about your son being comfortable. And right now him and his ex wife are really just want his, their kid to be comfortable because they don't want, you know, and maybe there, yeah, maybe there is guilt from both of them of being divorced totally, you know, and things like that. But they have to get past that and they got to think about their son is a 15, 16, 17 year old, 18 year old, a young 20 year old who's going to teach him these skills if it's not going to be them. And then hopefully you get your boyfriend to see what you're seeing. And then there's the whole challenge is how does he get his ex wife to see that? And then hopefully it's just about him just using that we in U.S. language. They may be divorced, but there's still a we there. And the we as we are parents of this child, it's our responsibility to raise this child. It's up to us to make sure our child gets what they need. And so he can just say hey, I'm just, I'm a little concerned about our child and like what can we do? You know, he is, you know, hey, I'm worried that you know, you gave him the iPad. Like whatever happened up into this point between the two of them, they have to just let that shit go. And they, they're, you know, they're still a team when it comes to parenting their child. And you should encourage your boyfriend to be a teammate with his ex wife and the language he should use around her is one about like just being a team and, and hopefully you know, that's less adversarial to her more, you know, but like they have to make a pact to be like, listen, like what we can agree on is that we want our son to have a good life. We want our son to be able to have what he wants. But like we, we can't, like the world isn't going to give him what he wants. And as privileged as they are, what happens if they're not around? We can't predict the future, you know, and so it really just comes down to that. But I don't think you should let it go. And I don't you know, if this is a man that you want to potentially marry, if this is a man that you want to consider having children with, then yeah, this matters. Like, this is a big deal. You are not both 22 year old kids with no responsibilities who can just half fuck around and find out and be like, yeah, I don't know, like, maybe he is or isn't my future baby daddy, but like, we're having fun right now, you know, like that you don't, that's not the life you're in right now.

Caller F (21:14)

No, no. Yeah, it feels very different than that, you know, But I have, I'm starting to get massive anxiety around the thought of moving in together. Even I've taken a step back of staying over there. And I didn't realize it at first what it was. I was just like, I don't, you know, I'm just gonna stay at my house tonight when I realized the kid was over there. And then I started realizing, like, it's just. Because I just get so triggered by this child. But I do. I think I hear you.

Nick (21:41)

Yeah, I think I dated someone who had a son, a single mom. Father was not in the picture. She was very privileged and, and had everything she needed to, you know, and had a great community around her. But in our brief time dating, it was, Yeah, I, my point is, like, I had opinions and we were very early in dating and I, but it was, I didn't feel like it was my place to say or do anything. And I felt like this, this young boy needed a male role model and I didn't feel like at that time was my place to play dad. But yeah, I, it was, it was hard to ignore. It's just, I get it. Like it's, it's just hard to look the other way. It's hard to be in the house and see this, you know, child just kind of just doing whatever and, and like you can see the signs of him, what this adult's gonna look like, you know, So I totally get that. It's very hard for you to just pretend it's not there. It's a child, you know, like child, children are hard to ignore. They don't let you ignore them and you shouldn't want to.

Caller F (22:44)

I do think coming from a place of empathy is gonna be important. I sometimes get, I know myself, whether professionally or personally, I can be very like, okay, we see a problem, now we've gotta tackle this. And sometimes my empathy just like le the building because, you know, I want to just solve the problem, but you know, and also acknowledging to him that he kind of does have a more uphill battle than if he and his ex wife are more aligned. Like, he's got to be confident in and how he what. And what values he wants to instill in his child and then hopefully lead by example and bring his ex wife in on it. Because right now they're just, they're very adversarial. It's gotten way better. But right now there's no team. I don't even think he would be able to say we an hour. I think it would just make him cringe. And I want.

Nick (23:39)

Yeah, it's not about him, you know.

Caller F (23:41)

I know, exactly, exactly. But I do think if he just starts now while the kid is still relatively. I mean, I think there's still hope. I hope. Yeah, you know, there's still time, there's.

Nick (23:53)

Hope, but like, you know, there's the, you know, the damage has been done, so to speak. Like, I got my dogs here. Like, we got Jeff, he's three years old. Steve's like one and a half or whatever. And Jeff's a really great dog. So we didn't really do any formal training. Right. We crate trained him and other than that, like he wasn't the best walker, but it was like fine. And then we got Steve and Steve's kind of a, you know, and so we're like, we got, we got to get this dog trained. So but we, we, we took Steve in to, you know, get trained early and he took to it really well and now he listens better than Jeff because then we sent Jeff to the tr. He was like, he picked up on some new things, but they were like, yeah, he's kind of old, you know, not old, you know, but like, can't teach an old dog new tricks, so to speak. And so it's just it, as you, as these kids get older and get set in their ways, it, it becomes harder. They, they really are going to have to agree or at least your husband's going to have to be determined. And even if that means, you know, he feels like he's not the favorite parent for a period of time, you know, his kid is not. Is only going to be eight for a year and then only going to be nine for a year and only be ten for a year, but this kid's going to be an adult for hopefully a very long time.

Caller F (25:02)

Yeah.

Nick (25:02)

And he really has to focus about like, what is my relationship going to be like with my son when he becomes a young man and a man. And I promise you know, he's going to respect his parent that like taught him things, you know, at some point, you know, if he's really. He doesn't have to be a dick, he doesn't have to be mean, he doesn't have to go out of his way to be like, well, I'm going to be the disciplinary parent. He can still lead with love, but he can, he can stick to his boundaries. Really it is about, you know, a setting about, you know, it's just like he, right now these parents are maybe setting a boundary and then a completely like ignoring that boundary as soon as their kid, you know, resists that boundary. Yeah. Maybe sometimes they're not even setting boundaries.

Caller F (25:42)

That's exactly right. Yeah. Oh, I think you said something the other day. I don't remember in what context, but you said something about respect versus being liked. And I think with my boyfriend, it's like, okay, it's not only thinking about how you want your son to be as a, as an adult, but how do you want your son to see you when he's that age. Do you want him to just be like, yeah, my dad was fine, I really liked him. Or do you want it to be like, I really respected my dad. He really pushed me to learn how to ride that bike. When I refused, you know, or, you know, I just, I think if he comes at it from that way too, of like, it's so much better to be respected than like to be great. If it was both. But right now it's like, there's only one. Yeah, he likes his dad a lot because his dad lets him get away with everything.

Nick (26:25)

The problem is it's like right now it sounds like your boyfriend is more like, is it really that big of a deal now? And you're just. And, and the argument is like, it's not really about now. Like, now your kid's just annoying, like, whatever, but like he's on a path of really having like a lot of. Your kid's gonna struggle in life if these behaviors don't change. I mean, that's kind of how you have to describe it.

Caller F (26:49)

Yeah.

Nick (26:50)

You know, because right now he's nine years old, which is not that young. And he is. I mean, I remember nine. That's third grade. Four, 10 to 10 is fourth grade. Like, I have lots of memories of that age.

Caller F (27:02)

Yeah.

Nick (27:03)

You know, and there were the pretty good kids and there were the absolute fuck ups.

Caller F (27:07)

Yeah.

Nick (27:08)

You know, and the, and some of the kids. I went, I was in school from third grade to high school. And the Fuck ups in third grade were the fuck ups in high school. The difference between the fuck ups in third grade and the fuck ups in high school, the fuck ups in third grade were just like, kind of like got in trouble and the fuck ups in high school were like, got into drugs and bad friends and, and like just, you know.

Caller F (27:28)

Yeah, yep, totally.

Nick (27:30)

And it's, you know what's gonna happen when they're, when they're so afraid to say no that they're the kid who like, has the, the untapped iPhone at 12, 13 years old and now their kid is fully weapon, you know, armed to the teeth with just like, you know, it's, it's a scary world out there.

Caller F (27:48)

Yeah.

Nick (27:48)

You have to like, it's not, it's not, it's not your job to be your, your kid's friend. It's your job to protect your child. And sometimes protecting your child is enforcing a lot of boundaries and, and getting them comfortable with respecting people's boundaries. Especially as a young man, that's really important. So he needs to see that path. And yeah, I would not, I would not back down because if, if, if you can't get through to your boyfriend now, that's, yeah, it's pretty telling about how he could be as a husband and as a partner. And you, if you have to be able to gently communicate that and hopefully in couples therapy where. And, and great sign that he's so far taking it fairly well. But there needs to be more of that because it just. This is a it. Yeah. Yeah, your instincts are right. That this is not something to ignore.

Caller F (28:33)

Yeah. All right, well, thank you so much.

Nick (28:35)

All right, well, keep, Keep me posted. I'd love to, to see where this goes, but, yeah, I'm sure it's a very relatable story both for parents who aren't divorced, for people dating parents and things like that. It's, It's a tough world out there for parents and I, you know, it's.

Caller F (28:49)

Well, the more I'm talking about it too, the more I realize that it is quite common. I mean, I never did, I think, like, oh, I'm the only person going through this in the world. But the more I think about it, it's like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. I went through that when my husband and I got married or when we started dating and he brought his kid into the picture. It just, it happens. It's. It's very common that, that the theme of, you know, divorced parents want to be the best friend and not enforce boundaries and it creates big issues in their relationship. So it feels validating.

Nick (29:21)

He's got to get over whatever resentment he may or may not have. Both of them with each other. It's not about they, they can talk all the they want behind each other's backs, but like when it comes to their child, they need to be a team. They have to.

Caller F (29:34)

Yeah.

Nick (29:35)

They just. Yeah, it's not about them. So you keep fighting the good fight. I'd love, you know, keep me posting. Thanks.

Caller F (29:41)

All right. Thank you guys so much.

Nick (29:42)

All right, take care. All right. All right. Bye bye.

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Nick (32:31)

How's it going?

Chelsea (32:32)

Hi, I'm Chelsea, I'm 31 years old and my brother in law who is 30 still lives with my in laws that live next door to us and how should we get him to move out?

Nick (32:43)

Okay, why is it a major concern of yours?

Chelsea (32:47)

Well because being in my husband's family for the past nine years of our lives, I've seen him treat his family so disrespectful.

Nick (32:58)

Your brother in law, not your husband, right? Yes.

Chelsea (33:00)

No, no, no no no. My brother in law, he just hasn't contributed. He hasn't. They wanted him to pay rent, he hasn't paid rent. He wrecked his car a couple months ago. He hasn't saved up for that. And now that me and my husband have a 15 month old daughter and they watch her during the day, we just are concerned that with her growing up I don't want her to think that's normal behavior.

Nick (33:24)

What specifically are you worried about?

Chelsea (33:26)

The fact that he still lives there but he's being disrespectful to my in laws. They fight constantly. I don't really want my daughter to see that.

Nick (33:35)

Sure.

Chelsea (33:35)

And then he's also dating a girl who doesn't speak the same language as him. And she's about to be deported back. No, not at all. So I don't know how that relationship works, to be honest, because they text through like the Google translation.

Nick (33:54)

Fascinating.

Chelsea (33:54)

And that's how. Yes. They've been dating for like a year and a half.

Nick (33:57)

A year and a half? Like not even a fling. It's like, wow.

Chelsea (34:01)

No, it's a year. Yes.

Nick (34:02)

Do they really just think each other's are like super hot, you know, or like what, like what's. How did they find?

Chelsea (34:08)

I. I don't know because like they'll. When I've seen the interactions with them, they just like look at each other and they giggle. Like, and they just like text each other and I'm like, what? I. I don't understand.

Nick (34:20)

Wow.

Chelsea (34:20)

It's. Yeah.

Nick (34:23)

Anyway, so she's about to get deported.

Chelsea (34:25)

Because of the new administration.

Nick (34:26)

Sure.

Chelsea (34:27)

She's from Venezuela and so she's here on a sponsorship and basically she has to go back. And so now his parents are thinking, oh, let's just kind of put him on her to deal with. They can get married and so then now they can live on their own. But he has no money.

Nick (34:48)

So how did, how did this happen? It sounds like your husband is not the same person.

Chelsea (34:53)

He's the opposite. I don't, I don't know what happened because they were both raised the same way. But my husband, he's, he is adopted. And so I think they were both very privileged growing up. They didn't have to like, your husband's.

Nick (35:06)

Adopted but your brother in law wasn't.

Chelsea (35:08)

He's. No. Yeah, he. Yeah. And so I think my husband realized growing up like he could have had a very different life. And so he's always tried to work hard and try to thank his, his adoptive parents for giving him that life.

Nick (35:25)

Yeah.

Chelsea (35:25)

And then his brother just never learned.

Nick (35:28)

I'm willing to bet they weren't raised the same way. And probably not even obvious ways, you know, and that's not even really that important. Like, I don't think you need to be like, hey, you know, I talked to a podcaster and he said he doesn't, you know, like, I'm just saying, like, there's clearly a huge difference in how these young men grew up. Obviously with your husband being adopted makes a lot of sense what you're saying in terms of how he perceived it, you know, and. And. And his decision to take advantage of this opportunity literally, you know, that he was blessed with. And I don't mean like, they were loved differently. And I don't know. It's clearly like, your. Your husband sounds like he got the benefit of better parenting almost, but they probably weren't raised the same. You know, just like maybe every child in a. Regardless of adopted or not, in some ways might be raised differently and without parents even necessarily realizing, you know, like, overall, yeah, I'm sure they're. But they probably weren't. Not that that really matters, and there's nothing really to unpack there, but they probably weren't just because, like, I mean, the fact that his parents are allowing this to happen. I mean, because they are. They are allowing this to happen. The fact that their big plan to get their son out of the house is to hope that he finds a wife is not a plan, because, like, how do they know that he's not going to want him and his wife to live in the basement, you know?

Chelsea (36:45)

Oh, I've told them that. We've made them aware, like, you. You know, she's probably going to move in with y'all, and then if she ends up pregnant, then y'all are going to have to take care of her, their child.

Nick (36:54)

Yeah. Someone who's like, probably his girlfriend is just literally fighting to be in this country. Any home is a blessing, certainly a nice home, even if it's not her home.

Chelsea (37:05)

Yeah, I. I mean, I don't blame her. I. I don't blame her, but I. I fit. I'm concerned for her because I don't want her to end up having to take care of him because he's like a man child.

Nick (37:16)

I think you might hate my advice, though, but my advice is, like, it's kind of not your problem. And I think, you know, and there's only so much you can do. I understand and empathize with your concern as it relates to your daughter, but I think there is ways, you know, like, you. All you can control is what you can control. Right. You can control the fact that you are your daughter's mother and you are in a position to set boundaries, sit her down, have conversations. How old your daughter?

Chelsea (37:43)

She's 15 months old.

Nick (37:45)

Okay. So incredibly young. Right. Like, she's. She's River's age. Right. Like, you know, so right now, like, you spend. I'm guessing, you know, you spend a lot of time fantasizing about her getting older, lessons you'll want to teach her. I'M sure you and your husband talk about what type of parents you want to be and yada yada, like she's so young right now. Like, I totally get it, but like, we as parents, we cannot raise bubble kids. You know, we cannot, we can only do so much to protect our children. We cannot stop our children from facing the world because the world is just not going to care about them the way we care about our children as parents. Right. It's our job, at least my belief, to prepare our children for all the things that life is going to come at them. While this isn't an ideal situation, like I wouldn't want it for myself just no more than you would want it for you, your situation and your daughter. But it's still an opportunity. It is an opportunity to like, you know, as your child gets older and maybe, you know, one you can just say you can set boundaries being like if, if, if there really is an uncomfortable environment, you can simply say to grandma and grandpa, like, I am just not comfortable with our daughter being there alone with him. I would love for you guys to babysit at our house and he's not allowed to be there. You know, it might come down to saying something like that. As your daughter gets older, you can sit her down and just say, yeah, that's nuts. Uncle blah blah blah is we don't approve of that behavior. And if, and if, and if he doesn't like that he's being his niece is being taught that that's a him problem. But like, you know what I'm saying? Like you, you can. As long as you and your husband are on the same page, as long as you guys are aligned, you know, again, you, you can only control so much about, about life showing up at your, your child's doorstep and saying, hey, I'm a problem and how are you going to deal with this problem? As children, they have you and your parents to most of the time protect them from these problems, deal with, help them deal with the problems. As your child gets older, you're going to help teach your kid how to solve problems on their own. Hopefully these will be opportunities. So in a way, yeah, it's not ideal, but honestly, what it kind of is, is a still controlled environment. You know, a, an obstacle is presenting to your daughter and you, and you have an opportunity to sit your daughter down at times to, to teach her various lessons based off of what we're seeing. You know, like you might take a kid to, you might take your daughter to a playground and she's going to Interact with children who are not being parented the way you parent your child. And a child might do or say something around your child where you're like, I don't, I didn't want my child to see or do that. My parents always tell me the story about how I learned about birds and the bees, right? It was my childhood friend, friend Brian, who one day I loved his parents but like, and my mom was friends with his mom, but he was allowed to watch kind of rated R movies as a six year old. And I, you know, and I definitely wasn't not sneak over, you know, but he knew about sex before I did and he, he told me and my parents were pretty pissed, you know, and I came home kind of red in the face and I honestly don't even remember, but my parents remember and that's gonna happen. You know, you, you cannot, you're gonna send your kid off to school and they're gonna come home and they're gonna like experience shit you wish they wouldn't. I was, I had a sailor's mouth in second grade and my parents never would have guessed. I have this vivid memory of taking a walk around the block being like, I swear a lot. I should probably stop swearing as a second grader as an eight year old. You cannot stop your child from experiencing life. You know, what you can do though, is use whatever life your child to experience to, to make sure you're paying attention, make sure you're asking questions and checking in. Make sure you're not just assuming everything's okay with your child because you taught them everything you know. But just like you have to accept that the world is going to, whether you like it or not, introduce things to your child. And it will be your and your husband's responsibility to like step in to say, well, that's not okay or that's okay. And this is what this means. And you know, it's really, you know, this is dangerous. You know, you got to avoid this danger. You know, as river gets older, you know, we got to teach her about the dangers of water, you know, teach her how to swim. Dangerous things are going to show up and we have to teach our children like how to be careful around dangerous things. And I think that's where your focus should go. Because if your focus goes with like, I got to get this guy out of the house, you're stepping in there and then that could affect your relationship with your in laws. He's, he's their problem, you know, he's not your problem.

Chelsea (42:21)

That's very True. Yeah. And so my, my daughter is adopted too. And so I don't, I'm fully aware, like if we have our own child someday or something, I don't want to treat them differently. I don't want to make them feel. I don't, I just don't want to discipline them differently or anything like that.

Nick (42:40)

Yeah.

Chelsea (42:41)

So this is definitely a lesson for me and my husband on how we want to discipline our child and how we want to raise them and.

Nick (42:49)

Yeah. I mean, at some point when it comes to your brother in law, like, he just was not pushed or challenged and like, you know, there's. If the difference between your husband and your, in your brother in law is this pure luck that he had the mentality and the personality to on his own see this opportunity that he wasn't going to throw away, then that's, I mean that's just really a literal blessing. But yeah, it's, it's, it's not your problem, which is as tough as it is because it is a problem that you, you anticipate having to deal with and that's inevitable. Deal with it as it relates to your daughter and just make sure that your daughter, like, it's all just worry about your daughter, you know, worry about how to protect your daughter while accepting that there's certain things in the world you can't control.

Chelsea (43:39)

Okay. So if they do end up somehow married, we just support it. We just go to the wedding and just, I mean.

Nick (43:47)

Yeah.

Chelsea (43:48)

See if it works out.

Nick (43:50)

Yeah.

Chelsea (43:51)

Okay.

Nick (43:52)

Well, yeah, my brother got his girlfriend, high school sweetheart pregnant. Then they quickly had another child because they were just like, we got to make this work. In the back of my mind, I was just like, I didn't. She seemed like a lovely person. They didn't seem compatible at all. I was definitely worried about my brother, like trying to do the right thing but not doing the right thing. But like, what was I supposed to, you know, it's his life. Yeah. And you know, they ended up getting divorced and now he's in it. You can only do so much. Yeah. Life would be a lot easier if we all listen to people's advice. But most of the time we have to learn on our own. And then, you know, hopefully we have people around us not necessarily say I told you so, but, but to pick us up, to support us, to offer some tough love at times mixed in with some empathy. And certainly that's what you'll be there for your children because like, yeah, we cannot protect our children from ever being disappointed, hurt, sad, angry. Put in uncomfortable situations, like, we can't. We have to teach them how to overcome things. You know, we can teach them early on to observe things and know the difference between right and wrong. I remember growing up and down the street, I actually. Across the street from my childhood best friend were his cousins. His cousins lived across the street from him, and his cousins were fucks. His oldest cousin was a drug addict. You know, he was in high school, and he would, like you. We always see him. Like, I remember being 8, 9, 10 years old and seeing this. To me, he looked like a man, but he was probably like a high school kid. And I could tell there was something wrong with this kid. And my parents told me, you know, he's got to draw. You know, like, it was an opportunity for me, my parents, to teach me the dangers of drugs because I could. I saw this young man. I saw he fought with his father. They. You know, like, I saw a lot. Even I saw a lot of conflict from this family that lived down the street from us, across the street from my friend, who's. Who. I was over there all the time. And even though my parents. I was still allowed to play with them. And, you know, he had good parents. And even though, like, yeah, he got to do things that, you know, but, like, I was. I was still safe, and I was. And I was okay. And I. I probably learned a lot of things from Brian that maybe my parents wouldn't like, but, like, I still turned out okay, but my parents were always present, always checking in, always asking questions, always just, like, making, you know, it's just like, what'd you do today? You know, and it's like just being curious parents and. And. And check, you know, again, really just checking in. A lot of times the parents just, like, assume their kids are fine, and I've taught them everything they know they're gonna be fine. And they don't check in, and all of a sudden their kid gets into something they're like, I didn't. I never would have guessed. I never would have known, you know, they're not checking in enough. Enough. So it. Yeah, it's not really about stopping your kid from ever witnessing toxicity or witnessing arguments or just an uncomfortable environment. That is an opportunity to sit your kid down and try to teach them things and. And learn about. Hey, that's. That's why we stay away from those things. That's. That's your opportunity to teach a little bit. I think fear is a powerful teaching tool sometimes, you know, like, just. I was very afraid of. Of going down the wrong path as a child and, and how my parents were able to incorporate teach me that I'm not entirely sure but I think it a lot had to do with like when they saw examples of kids maybe going down the wrong path. They talked to me about what that looked like I was old enough to, to see trauma, you know, I was old enough. I mean I'm thinking, I'm telling you the story now and I, I remember, I remember and I just remember this kid would always just, it was like a lost adult. He looked, it looked like a sad situation.

Chelsea (47:18)

I mean I hope for the best for my brother in law. I really do. Like, like I, I want him to succeed. It's just, it's hard to see that and it's hard to see my in laws because they're, they're the sweetest people and they do so much for everyone and so it's really hard to see them still stuck in that situation.

Nick (47:36)

I mean if anyone's gonna like be in a position, it's your husband to offer some tough brotherly love. And if there's anyone who's in a position to just be like bro, the are you doing? It's him. It's definitely not you. Yeah, it's.

Chelsea (47:49)

No, no, no, I, I, I definitely don't want to be because coming from an outsider, I don't, I don't know how he was previous before I came into my husband's life and I don't know how much better he became and what all his brother had to struggle with and stuff. And so I'm, yeah, I'm definitely not the person to do it. But yeah, that's why I wanted your advice because I just didn't know like okay, just yeah, it's their problem, not ours. Or does my husband need to have a sit down with him and tell him like hey, you should really think about like getting married to this girl and also saving up to, to leave our parents house.

Nick (48:29)

Yeah. If you're, if your brother wants to have some conversations with him like let him. But I think right now your guys responsibility is each other and your daughter and your family. And that's really what you guys, your energy should be going there and don't waste your energy trying to parent this man. That is energy that you could be focusing on your daughter or energy you could be focusing on yourself or your relationship. If there's one through line of this show is whether it's you calling in about a brother in law or someone calling in about a situationship or an Ex boyfriend is to be mindful of where you are focusing your energy because it's not unlimited. It's a tangible thing and we treat our thoughts and our energy as if it is unlimited. We're not thinking about the cost of focusing our attention and energy on, on something that really is outside of our control, that really is none of our business. And that is energy. We, it could be learning a new language, you know, literally like if, you know, just as a joke but like obviously you're not going to do this but if instead of worrying about where your, your brother in law's living situation and let's say, you know, it's like, yeah, I, my daughter's fine and my relationship's good but I'm going to take that energy and just learn Spanish. You could learn how to communicate with his girlfriend faster than he is if you just took that energy and learn, you know what I'm saying? Like, and you got to think of your energy in that way because it's not unlimited. And if you're using it in one bucket, you're wasting it in another.

Chelsea (49:58)

That's very true. Well, this was very helpful because I was going back and forth and my husband, we would, we would have fights about it and then because he would be so done, he was like, I'm just tired of talking about it. But then something would piss him off that his brother would do and then he would talk about it again. So it was just like an endless cycle of like, okay, what do we do about this?

Nick (50:19)

In my opinion, your job is to, in addition to obviously being a parent for your daughter is support your husband. It's his brother, it's his family. So I wouldn't add to the frustration. It's not your job to be his like gossip partner. And you'd be like, yeah, doesn't it fucking suck? It's just. Your job is to support your brother's frustration with his family. Your job is to support your husband's frustration with his family, empathize with him, how you know, again it's supporting him. It's not egging him on or saying yeah, we need to do something about this. It's more like, you know, yeah, how can I support you? Or like maybe you should talk to your brother. But like we're gonna be okay. And like how can we help maybe his parent, they are adults, your in laws, they're allowed to kick him out if they want to be nice people, you know, they're not helpless. So they're making a choice too, you know, and you have to accept their choice. And if he wants to, like, have a conversation with his parents, then you can support him in that. That. But, like, again, I would challenge your husband to just be grateful for what you guys have and allow his brother to live his life. And as long as he's not literally putting anyone in harm, then, you know, it's his life. It's his life.

Chelsea (51:30)

Yeah, that's true. Okay, I'll just let it go.

Nick (51:35)

All right.

Chelsea (51:36)

Okay. Well, thank you so much for talking to me, and I just love y'all show.

Nick (51:40)

Well, I appreciate it. And congratulations on having a beautiful daughter and adoption. Such a beautiful thing. And. And credit to you guys for that. And. And best of luck with your family.

Chelsea (51:51)

Thank you. And just your. Your daughter's just so beautiful.

Nick (51:54)

Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, she's a. It's been real fun lately. All right. All right. Take care. Nice to meet you.

Chelsea (52:00)

All right, you too.

Nick (52:01)

All right. Bye. Bye.

Chelsea (52:02)

Bye.

Nick (52:04)

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Buffy (54:01)

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Nick (54:31)

How's it going?

Buffy (54:32)

It's going good. My name is Buffy, I'm 28 years old and did my ex just want to bring me chicken or does he love me and is he chickening out?

Nick (54:43)

Okay, well why is he your ex? Just give me the backstory of the relationship a little bit. And the breakup.

Buffy (54:50)

Yeah, so I've been single for about three years. Within that time I'll go on the dating apps, I'll do about three months on it, go on dates and then when I start feeling like it's affecting my self esteem, I'll get off and take a break from it. So in that three years, this person, I met him off of an app. He's from a different state but he was moving here. So we got to FaceTime a couple about like a month prior. So we kind of built more of that foundation. So when we did meet it was very natural and the first date was so good. It was that, that like magnetic feeling. So I, you know, I, I knew I liked him right off the bat but. And I think it was pretty neutral. So start from the first date. We both didn't see other people. We, you know, were hot and heavy I guess, but it was very, we were very connected. And then so that went on for about four months. And then everything just, it felt almost perfect. We had really good communication. There was days where, you know, he was just a very good communicator with all of his feelings and what he was going through. He was trying to start a business out here. So I did have a fear that he was taking on too much all at once. Like, starting a relationship, trying to start a business, moving across the United States, that's a big thing. I did it. So I, I, I knew that I wasn't ready to date when I first came out here. And so, yeah, so eventually we weren't seeing each other. It was like two weeks and I hadn't seen him. It was a lot of, like, cancellations. So ultimately I just called him and at this point, we're in a relationship. We had defined it. And I called him and I said, all right, like, I'm feeling it. Like, just what's going on? Let's, let's talk it. Because I feel, you know, I feel it. And I would rather, if it's gonna, like, end, let's just, like, do that. And he was very off. He was very off and on. He wouldn't really say it. He just said that he, he was going through some depression, which I wanted to really understand. So for the next couple of weeks, he didn't break up with me, but he also was in this hole and he, he was communicating that, you know, he was just going through a really hard time and really stressed, but he was very much leaning on, he was very depressed. And I guess I got to the point where I didn't know if, is this the moment where I step up as a partner and I just, I'm there for him, which I was so willing to do. It's okay if he needed to do some isolation, I understood that, but I wasn't sure if it was, do I need to step up as a partner.

Nick (57:42)

And just chill and what was he asking from you?

Buffy (57:46)

Nothing. He wasn't asking anything. So then in the back of my head, I was like, well, this is it. Is this an out for him? Like, does he just, he wants out? And I understood that too. Like, he took on too much and just didn't know how to communicate it. And eventually that's how I felt. So eventually it just, I mean, we played that kind of back and forth game for a month, a month and a half, and eventually I just, I called it because it wasn't a relationship at that point, and I felt like.

Nick (58:17)

And what did you say when you called it?

Buffy (58:18)

I said, That I really respected him and that I had really deep feelings for him. But ultimately, I told him that I wasn't sure what he needed from me when he's going through this, but I'm not getting my needs met at all. So I also wanted a partner in that situation, and the only thing I was asking was the communication aspect of it. Where do we stand? Do you want me here, me to support you through this or not? And he. And he couldn't give me that answer, so that's when I just ended it.

Nick (58:55)

And so you ended it, and then did you pretty much stop communicating?

Buffy (59:00)

Yes. And I kind of think I know what you're gonna say, but I did tell him, like, when I. When things end, I do just end it.

Caller F (59:08)

So.

Buffy (59:09)

I mean, I've had exes before where I'll literally, you know, I've dropped off a vehicle, took a picture, blocked, and deleted the number same day.

Nick (59:17)

So what do you think I'm gonna say? What do you mean? What do you think I'm gonna say?

Buffy (59:21)

Well, okay, I think I kind of was telling him that so that he would say, oh, no, sure, of course. I mean, yeah, like, I want. I wanted a reaction out of it.

Nick (59:32)

I mean, listen, like, you did very. You did a very difficult thing, ending a relationship with a person that you liked and cared about and saw a lot of potential in. And then what I'm sure felt like fairly overnight, you know, his behavior changed, you know, and then you tried to be empathetic and understanding. He didn't give you anything, you know, literally. Literally gave you nothing, you know, and so here you are guessing this, guessing that. And, yeah, you decided to end a relationship. So, like, yeah, I think you're being a little tough on yourself. Of course we say things kind of like hoping it'll rattle their cage, hoping they get through, you know, like, hoping to be like, I, you know, like, hey, don't really want to leave here. But, like, you're. You're kind of forcing my hand. And of course you wanted a reaction. That's. That's normal. Like, you know, it's. You're not supposed to be indifferent. You obviously cared, you know, so it's. It makes a lot of sense. Like, the. The important thing, what I'm hearing from you is that you felt that there was a problem. You. You weren't reactive. You. You tried to understand the problem. You asked him questions. You. You certainly tried to give him time and space. Again, he didn't give you anything. So you re. Approach the situation and said, hey, I really care. I just. Before I do anything, I do want you to know I care. This is not me not caring. This is me not liking you. This is like, I care. So it sounds like you did a lot of good things here. I think the only thing you have left to do then is just maybe accept.

Buffy (61:04)

Well, it kept going.

Nick (61:06)

What do you mean, it kept going?

Buffy (61:08)

Okay, we broke up.

Nick (61:10)

Okay.

Buffy (61:11)

About. I was in a little sad girl moment for about two months. But ultimately, this wasn't a long relationship. I've gone through worse. I had feelings for him. It was really strong. I think I was falling in love with him. But I'm good at this. I'm not. No, I'm not good. But I was ready to date again.

Nick (61:26)

Okay.

Buffy (61:27)

Started dating again. Went on a business trip. So at this point, I had been on a few dates with this guy, like, three or four. Nothing. I didn't have any, like, feeling. I was just, you know, figuring it out if I like them or not. And ultimately I didn't, and that's over.

Nick (61:44)

But.

Buffy (61:45)

So he reached out. This was about two months later. I was on a business trip. He reached out to me and asked if he could see me when I got back. I said okay. So we met at the dog park, and he. I could tell it was really hard for him to say this, and then he. He ultimately looked me right in the eye and he just said, I needed to meet with you. I really. I want to apologize the way I treated you and what I. And how I did it. And he said that he. You know, all people want and all he's wanted was to be accepted and, like, loved for who he is and for whether that's, like, the ups and downs. And. And he felt that he was starting to feel that from me, I guess, because we were starting to get a lot more emotional. And he acknowledged that he didn't react well to it. And when he was saying this, he was crying, so it was very hard. And I could feel the emotion from him. And I told him I was. I told him that I accept his apology and that I really appreciate that he apologized to me. That meant a lot, and I know that. I know that was hard. And I was okay from that moment. Like, I was. I felt okay. Wow. Like, okay. Closure piece. I've never had a guy do that to, like, acknowledge that after the fact. I just. I loved that. I didn't need it, but I really appreciated it. But then, you know, so we're. That conversation's over, and we're walking through the dog park. And he says a comment like, I hope our paths cross again. And. Which I don't know what that means. Like, I wish we would have just left it at that. Like, I do not want the little, you know, the little eggs in my brain of what I don't want back.

Nick (63:25)

So what did you respond to? I hope our paths cross again. Again?

Buffy (63:28)

I didn't, because he kind of mumbled it. So I. I kind of giggled. I giggled and was like, yeah, because I want him to just be direct. Like, what is he. Because is he asking for another chance? If he's asking for another chance, then probably not. Approach that. Oh, okay.

Nick (63:50)

I don't know. I mean, that's why I say probably not. I don't know for sure. Sure. If you want a direct man, then maybe regardless of what he wants, you have to see what I want. Yeah, you have to understand what you want. And then judge his actions, which, you know, not necessarily judge judges, but, like, he wasn't, you know, but like, how long ago was that?

Buffy (64:12)

That was probably two months ago. And he's reached out one other time. Oh, important. So after the dog park, I wrote him and I said that I apologize if I seemed cold. It was just emotional, but I wasn't. But I do really appreciate that you apologized. And I said, with that being said, I'm not looking to have a friendship with you. Like, I don't want open lines of communication.

Nick (64:38)

Okay. Did you say what you did want from him?

Buffy (64:42)

No, because he did write me after the dog park, and he said his text was something like, I didn't get to say everything I wanted to, but I think. But maybe that will be okay. Very elusive, like, making me the one to guess what he means by that. So I just said, okay, well, then.

Nick (65:00)

Here'S the question, right? Like, so. But is there more?

Buffy (65:04)

He reached out to me one more time a month later.

Nick (65:06)

Okay.

Buffy (65:07)

He randomly called me. I. I answered, and he said, oh. Oh, you answered? And I said, oh, my bad. Should I hang up? You can leave a voicemail. And I don't know if he had been drinking. He did sound a little. Maybe he had a little tipsy. And he said he was just kind of going on. He said he didn't want to be my friend. And then he said he needed to tell me something. He said he needed to talk to me, he needed to tell me something. So I was like, then do it. Like, then just do it. I was kind of getting tired of this game and. And he said, okay, I'll come over. And I was about to make dinner. My chicken didn't thaw out. So he said, I'll bring chicken. And I was like, okay, then bring some chicken. So he drove here, he brought the chicken, and we're sitting on the couch and nothing. No touching, no nothing. It wasn't anything like that. And the dogs are playing and he didn't say anything. Like, he talked to me. He talked to me about my family and my dad had. There was an issue with my dad and he was checking on him, but he didn't say anything. And then he left. And I was just standing around the house like, what the heck was that? I don't know.

Nick (66:24)

So. And how long ago is that?

Buffy (66:26)

This was two weeks ago. Okay, three weeks ago.

Nick (66:29)

All right, all right. Well, you have a choice. Like, listen, like, clearly, this is an incomplete person. How old is this person? By the away?

Buffy (66:37)

35.

Nick (66:37)

Okay, how old are you again? 30.

Buffy (66:40)

28.

Caller F (66:41)

28.

Buffy (66:41)

Almost 29. On my 29th. On, almost on my 30th year of life.

Nick (66:46)

Happy birthday. You know, you clearly I'm guessing you based on what you're telling me. You're wondering, right, if this is a man who is second guessing his decision about the breakup not giving you the answer. Now he's just kind of quote unquote, breadcrumbing, kind of popping in and out. Maybe part of it is motivated by, you know, got drunk one night and text you, then you brought up some chicken. But, like, you're kind of expecting or hoping at least that he shows up with a piece of chicken, says, I want to try this again. I miss you. I care about you. I. I don't want to be your friend either. And if you're willing to give this another shot. I want another shot.

Buffy (67:22)

Yeah. I just want. I guess I want to know. If not, I'm okay. I would rather. I don't want the random communication back here.

Nick (67:32)

And my question.

Buffy (67:33)

Leave it.

Nick (67:33)

And so we can sit here and brainstorm what we think. Think his reaction is. And that's fun. And I'll. And I'm happy to do that with you, but at the end of the day, the easiest way to find out is to just find out, you know, rather than talk with me or your friends about what we think this guy might be doing, is this. Cut to the chase. Now, I understand that you wish he would do that, right? Yeah, he's not doing that. So then one, you have to ask yourself, as much as I care about him, do I want him him? Is this really who he is? And does this mean he's the type of man who really has a hard time taking charge. You know, you're describing some weakness, right? And we all have weaknesses. We all can be weak people at time. We can be strong people at time. You know, depending on our emotional resiliency, depending on our mental health, some of us can be stronger more often than we're weaker, and some of us are a little weaker more often than we're stronger, depending on what we're going through or what's going on or our upbringing and all a combination of things. Right. And so do you think he's going through some moments of weakness and needs someone like you in his life to help him out? And maybe he's seeing this, but has the potential to lead, to be strong, to get through whatever he's going through? And are you willing to take a chance at that? Are you willing to take a chance of saying what you want him to say and be totally wrong? People like him, you know, these type of people that you're describing, they can be very confusing because they don't even know what they want. Right. He could want you one day and the next day not, you know, I don't know what's going on with this business of his that he's been trying to start. I don't know what else is going on in his life. And again, I always say, like, no one lies to us more than we lie to ourselves. Is it like one day he might be feeling one thing and the next day he might be feeling another. And so, you know, you're potentially at risk of putting yourself through something, this emotional roller coaster again. And it only gets harder, right, the more, you know, because you're, you know, you're, you're like, listen, I only dated this guy for a few months. I was sad, I was disappointed, but I've been through worse. And like, I only dated him for a few months. It wasn't the end of the world. Well, now it's been two months. You know, you've spent a clearly a lot of emotional energy wondering, pining, you know, deliberating, second guessing about this man and this relationship you have. So in some ways you continue and have been in a relationship for the. About, about six months now.

Buffy (70:01)

Yeah. You know, I feel that because when I. I mean, I'm not saying every night, but I do.

Nick (70:07)

It's.

Buffy (70:07)

It's in my brain. It's in my brain. Yeah, it's. It's like, oh, you know, it's like, do I. I don't know, like, do I.

Nick (70:14)

So to that Point. If, if you're asking me what I think you should do, acknowledging that regardless of whether you meant to or not or whether it was in your intention, is that you have been investing a lot of your emotional time and energy into this man in relationship, regardless of your relationship status with him. And you care. And so you are emotionally vested. So rather than continuing to wait for him to make the first move, you just are going to have to make a decision, a clear decision, and that it's one of two decisions to just accept that this man, despite his charm and your affection for him, is incapable of really stepping up and asking for you back. And, and if, if he's not ready to do that, then maybe he's just really not ready, period. And that you are just going to simply, you know, draw that line and enforce that boundary. And whether he wants to call you late at night or not or step over, you're. You're just not going to allow that to happen because as you said a couple months ago, you're not interested in being his friend and you decided that despite his confusion, he's not your guy. Or, or you can put yourself out there, acknowledge that you've spent a lot of emotional energy on this man and you don't want to continue to spend a lot more emotional energy, at least being confused. And if you're going to spend any emotional energy on this man, you're at least going to do it while in a relationship as imperfect as it might be. And so then you should just put it out there and say, to be honest, I kind of wish you would have said this, but I'm going to say this, and I don't even know how you're going to respond, but, like, I want to try this again. I just don't think. Think you were ready. Remember, you did break up with him. And yeah, he should, he should be strong enough and brave enough to put himself out there, but he's not. And so you might have to put yourself out there and not knowing what the answer will be and also knowing that, like, even regardless of what his answer is, it might, his answer could change in a month.

Buffy (72:04)

So while you were saying that, I kind of just had like a. Like, what if? I've never thought about this before until just now, but so what if I put myself out there, which I think I'm okay doing. And I think that's why he has kind of this, a little bit of a hold is in the last three years of being single, he is the one person I think I was Just very vulnerable with. So I'm okay with putting myself out there and just however that looks like saying, I don't know, maybe that's where you come in and tell me what to say, but I'm okay with that. But then what if, let's say, perfect world, he's like, yeah, okay, and we start this, and then I change my mind. And maybe after I get it back, maybe after I'm in it, and then I realize, wait, I do want someone to be able to communicate the hard things. He has shown that he can be a good communicator, but not when it's hard, not when it's tough. And that's when it's important.

Nick (73:03)

We're all like, you know, it's easy to shoot a basket without someone playing defense, you know, so to speak.

Buffy (73:08)

You know, it's like, so then what if I change my mind? Like, after you change your mind?

Nick (73:13)

I mean, this is my mind. I know it doesn't feel like this sometimes in 2025, because it's like in some people's minds, if you tell someone, hey, I like you, or God forbid you say, I think I'm falling in love with you, or God forbid you say, I love you, and then like two months later be like, I'm sorry, but I don't feel the same way. A lot of people will immediately. You're a gaslighting narcissist, you know, who loved bomb your way into a relationship and yada, yada, yada, like, you are allowed to change your mind, and he's allowed to change his mind, and that's dating, and that's. And it's hard, you know, and, you know, he is a man. He is an adult. He is, you know, also question is, has what has he done to your knowledge of dealing with his depression?

Buffy (73:55)

Good question. So when, at the time that we were meeting, I had actually just started anxiety medication. I had never been on it, but I have a. Actually a heart condition that can cause, like, panic attacks. So anyway, I was having a lot of panic attacks. I got an anxiety medication. And he had very strong thoughts of the medication. He had tried it previously, and it didn't work out for him. So he had some thoughts of me starting medication, but of course I was like, well, this is something I would like to try that I'm going to do. And then we talked about therapy, because I was also getting into therapy, and he made comments on, like, that doesn't help him either. So that is something that I'm concerned about.

Nick (74:38)

Well, if there's follow up questions to like, what does he mean by doesn't help him out? And, and what is his experience or relationship with therapy?

Buffy (74:46)

Not with therapy, but I did ask the medication. I know he, you know, he said he felt like a zombie. He said he felt he didn't feel like himself. And.

Nick (74:54)

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm pretty medication adverse, you know, like, I'm not here to question, you know, but I definitely respect people who like, are resistant to like, you know, and if it helps you out, that's, that's amazing. But like, if you're not gonna take medication to help whatever problem you have, you should probably look into other, you know, forms of help. And I always find it funny when people say therapy doesn't help them. I mean, if you're resistant to getting help, it's not going to be helpful. But you know, trying therapy once for a couple sessions and deciding it didn't help you is, is you just quitting.

Buffy (75:29)

And I don't think he went for very long. His view on it was just like a money scheme type of view. But then it's also, well, that's fine.

Nick (75:40)

But who does he talk to? We all need somebody.

Buffy (75:44)

He doesn't. And I've asked that. I was like, you do need someone, whether it's family or friends. And he doesn't. So he keeps it all inside and then he just isolates. And that's what he was doing in this time that I was trying to be there for him and not like I dropped off like a care package and told him like, you don't have to see me. I'm just dropping at the door. I didn't want to add stress, but.

Nick (76:08)

Like, yeah, you guys are just too. I mean you're, he's worse than you, but you're, you're both like just, you gotta, someone's gotta be direct here.

Buffy (76:15)

Yeah. Okay, so do I text him if I wanna put myself out? What do I say?

Nick (76:20)

I would just. What do you, what would you want to say?

Buffy (76:22)

I don't know.

Nick (76:23)

There's no perfect. What? There's no perfect way of saying it. What do you want? What does putting yourself out there with him mean to you?

Buffy (76:31)

I wouldn't want to jump just into a relationship. Yeah, I would just want to go on dates and to see if maybe some of the things that I did see in him during that time, if they've been addressed, if we can communicate through it. And then if a relationship, if it is natural, if it comes back, then. And I would be very open to It.

Nick (76:55)

Regardless of what that approach actually looks like. Why is that your approach?

Buffy (76:59)

Because I would be scared of. To just jump into a relationship. I would be scared to jump into.

Nick (77:06)

Wait, what is dating him a man that you've already defined a relationship with? How is that different than saying, I want to try this again, I want to take it slow, But I. I think I want you in my life and I want to, like, you know, I don't know what that means yet, but I want us to try again. What's the difference?

Buffy (77:28)

I don't know. In my mind, I guess when you put it that way, nothing. Because that is what I would do. I know if I start seeing him again, like, I know my feelings are going to be there. So I guess maybe it's like. It's like a. It's that vulnerability thing. I think if I label it as this, my heart would feel less vulnerable. And if I label it as the other thing, then I would feel subject to her.

Nick (77:57)

I don't think in reality, I think you're convincing yourself of that. And at first it might be true. It might help initially take some pressure off that you've put on the situation. But if things don't work out, regardless if you define the relationship and give it another shot or not jump into things right away, but date at the end of the day, if it doesn't work out, like six weeks later, I don't think you're going to feel any differently about it. Whatever you feel is how you're going to feel. Because this will be another. It's going to feel like another failed attempt at a relationship with a person you cared about, where you realized he's not your person. And that's set bad, and that's gonna suck and it's gonna feel normal to question whether you wasted more time. But, like, you just have to, if you wanna listen. There's a lot of risks we. We potentially take as adults. And most of our risks, or a lot of our risks, are in relationships, you know, because to be in a relationship, you have to be vulnerable. You have to open up. It takes time, it takes work. There are no guarantees. Feelings change. It's really volatile, you know, and it can be very hurtful when it ends. But if we're not willing to take that risk, then we're never gonna find what we want, right? So you just have to accept the risk. And then if it doesn't work out, you deal with it. Then you don't worry about what could happen or how you're gonna feel. If it doesn't work out. You're just like, you just deal, you know? But until then, all you can do is, you know, be as honest with yourself as possible about what you want. Decide whether it's worth the risk. Because it's a risk. It is a risk risk. It's always a risk. And in your case, like, I think the most honest way to look at this risk is, do I want to pursue a relationship with a man who I'm already investing a lot of emotional energy regardless, and, and most of the time, he's just not even there, literally, except in my head. So I might as well just try and see this through because he, he has, you know, shown some progress, that an apology was really nice, immature, and it was, it probably was a lot for him, and that's a good sign. That's a green flag. But the fact that he's resistant to therapy and he is resistant to medication, that might help him, and I understand why, but either way, he's already shown you that when he gets anxious and has a problem, that he checks out. And so you have to be careful not to convince yourself that you're protecting yourself when you're actually protecting him and, and trying to avoid him being in stressful situations because he's shown the inability to handle them.

Buffy (80:38)

That is true.

Nick (80:41)

So, yeah, I think you just have to decide. I mean, I think you're gonna have a hard time letting him go mentally right now without trying, so you might as well just fucking shoot your shot.

Buffy (80:51)

And that, that's how I feel. I, I, I want to date. I, I feel okay to date. I really do. I feel like, personally, me, I mean, I got off the medication, but I got a trainer. I've been, like, working out. And so what if you say, hey.

Nick (81:05)

Listen, I, you show, you call him up. Hey, I want to see you. That's what you get your guys's thing. I would like to see you meet in the park, whatever kind of your thing, and just say, I'm just gonna say it. I'm just gonna be, show him what actions you want. Ronnie Wu was a guest a long time ago. He's a chef, used to be a therapist. And he said something that really stuck with me, you know, and, and talked about, like, be the action that you want your partner to demonstrate. So it's just like, you know, his basic example is, like, if you want someone to text you back right away, don't wait three days to reply to them because you're worried about seeming too eager. But you, what you really Want is to them to quickly reply. So be. Be the example of the behavior you want from your partner. So if you want directness, if you want assertiveness, goodness, be direct, Be assertive. You are following his lead of being a little cryptic, hesitant, unsure, and. But you're both just waiting for the other person to say something. And. Yeah. Would it be ideal, you know, to have the man, the relationship step up, take the lead, take charge? Sure. Yeah, it would. But if you're still. Still like him, you still care about him, you still see his potential, and potential is very dangerous. Like, you might as well just be the action that you want to have a relationship with him and see if he follows your lead. So you go to ask him to park and you just say, I want to give this another shot. I really. I care about you. I honestly am not sure if you want it or not to. I've honestly thought. There are a couple times you might say what I'm saying to you now, but I just wanted to say it. I don't know exactly how you feel. I want us to try again. If you feel the same way as I do, I would want us to at least, because I think we have a hard time communicating. I do. I think we're not. I think we have a hard time. I. I would love us to like, maybe like, consider like couples therapy, even if just to like, help us early in the early stages of dating, help us communicate more effectively. I know you were resistant to it, but, like, it's important to me. And is that something you'd willing to do with me? And if he's resistant to it, then you kind of have your answer. And if he's open to it, then, like, there's a shot.

Buffy (83:05)

Okay. So text him and ask him to the park and say this in person.

Nick (83:10)

Yeah. But be direct. Don't breed around the bush. This should take you less than 60 seconds to get out.

Buffy (83:16)

Okay.

Nick (83:17)

And you should practice saying it before you say it. And it's not like, well, I was thinking this, but you don't couch everything. You don't water it down by like, you know, if you're interested and if you're, you know, it's like, no, this is what I want. I'm hoping you feel the same. This is what I'm going to need from you to do this. If you feel the same way, there's one extra hook that is, we need to do this. This. Are you down? Yes or no?

Buffy (83:38)

Okay. I think I can do that. Because I do. I want the clarity. If we're gonna. If we're gonna try it, then okay, let's try. But if not, then I don't want the conversations back and forth. I don't want a friendship. So I agree.

Caller F (83:52)

Yeah.

Nick (83:52)

And like, and if you don't want that, I totally understand. But respectfully, I do appreciate the apology and I know we've sent some notes back and forth, but, like, if you don't want to do this, then, like, I, I really need to be, like, done with this because I care too much about this. Can please respect that and not reach out, because I'm not going to be reaching out to you.

Buffy (84:13)

So before he called me, we're exchanging text messages, he reached out to me. My dad was in the icu, so I just told him about that. And in that moment, he had asked, well, let's get you out of the house, go to the dog park. Initially, I said yes, but the day later I did change my mind. I didn't want to see him. I don't want to keep seeing him without that, without a direction. So I did tell him, hey, you know, thanks for being there, but I actually don't want to go to the dog park. My feelings are. My feelings for you are still present. So I was like, directed that way. This was recent. This was before the phone call, and I said, my feelings are present and I don't think it would be healthy for me to see you.

Nick (84:55)

What do you say?

Buffy (84:57)

He never responded until when he called me and then brought chicken and didn't say anything.

Nick (85:03)

Yeah, I mean, I, I don't know what this guy's going to say. Yeah, but it's really important that you're direct and finite. You say what you say and there's. You're not. You don't leave open anything for interpretation. And if you don't get the answer you want, you say goodbye and you. And you're very nicely, very directly. Just ask him to respect that bound boundary and then be done. Because, like, what's kept you invested is the lack of clarity, the questions, the crypticness, the hope. All he does is introduce questions for you to ponder. So you're there to stop asking questions. You're there to show up and make a statement and present an opportunity to him. Give him an opportunity in that moment to say yes or no. And if he's not capable of saying yes, that means no.

Buffy (85:54)

Yeah.

Nick (85:55)

You know, maybe I don't know. Or all knows. We'll see. I have to think about it. I mean, I, you know, if he's like, I Got to think about it. Just like, well, if you haven't been.

Buffy (86:05)

Thinking about it exactly, then, then, then that's okay.

Nick (86:09)

But like, yeah, I have my answer if you need to think about it. But you really have to be. I'll never forget those. Like my, my first girlfriend, I think we were 19 or time, you know, or many breakups. But you know, we were in one of our breakups and you know, she was probably just dating other guys, not telling me or whatever, but you know, we're. Situationships. Weren't a thing back then, but you know, I guess that's what we were doing. And she's just like, you know, she was in. She had the power, right? She wanted to break up because she wanted some freedom. I wanted to be with her, so she had all the power. But we were still talking, so it was like, I don't know. I'm not ready to be in a relationship yet. Maybe someday, I don't know. And she was just kind of being the fuck boy. Right? Right. And I, I remember where I was. I was on my parents driveway and I just called her up. I'm like, this is bullshit. You know, like, you're playing me. You know, I'm just kind of done. And wouldn't you know it, she literally showed up at my parents house five minutes later, drove, you know, and it was like, you know, and I wasn't mature enough or old enough at the time to realize it, but like, yeah, all it took was me and put my fucking foot down. All it took is for me to just show a little bit of fucking gumption. A little bit of like, stop being the victim in this situation. Stop letting her have all the power. Stop, stop, you know, letting her take control of the situation and just be, have the guts to say, I'm not gonna let you treat me this way. Like this is, you know. And immediately I took that power back. Which is why she showed up at my parents house and was like, no, let's get back together. You know, you know, so sometimes you got to show a little guts.

Buffy (87:34)

I got gut.

Nick (87:35)

I know. Yeah. I mean, listen, I, Yeah, again, you, you did the very hard thing early on. But you know, he was able to.

Buffy (87:42)

Yeah, just he. I feel like, like it was like I was giving him. He diluted my water. Yeah, Listen, it was very clear.

Nick (87:50)

It's also challenging when someone you care about. She says, I'm depressed. You know, you're not a doctor. You know, like, I don't know even, like, even if you were a therapist, like, you know, like what? Sometimes people just are depressed, and there's. I don't know, like. Yeah, I guess you take medication. There's. I don't know. But, like, it's a very helpless feeling to care about someone who's going through depression. Right. So I get it. Like, you kind of had almost no expectations. And then when this man shows up and says, I'm really sorry for how I treated you, it probably felt like, wow, wow, wow. I'm really like, wow. You know, because you have, like, the lowest of expectations of someone who's, like, depressed, but. And he kind of got you with your low expectations of him. But regardless of his depression, and I empathize with what he's going through, of course you deserve a certain level of care and treatment. And if he can't give it to you or doesn't want to, you need to walk away. And you have the right to say that and. And not coddle him.

Buffy (88:42)

Okay. So I'm gonna text him and I'm gonna say, I want to talk to you. Meet me.

Nick (88:48)

Yeah.

Buffy (88:49)

Do I give him, like, the day, or do I.

Nick (88:52)

Sure. It's not like, hey, you have to meet me in 12 minutes. Or else. But, like, yeah, yeah, no, I'd like. I. I want to meet with you. Let me know when you have time.

Buffy (89:03)

Okay.

Nick (89:04)

And he should be pretty accommodating, assuming that it's easy to schedule. You show up and then just tell him exactly what you want and be open to anything, you know?

Buffy (89:14)

Yeah.

Nick (89:14)

But if you don't get a. A fairly quick. I would like that, too. And. And yes, then you have your answer.

Buffy (89:21)

And that's all I want. I just want the clarity.

Nick (89:23)

Okay. Well, just make sure that's what you're looking for. And you. And if, again, anything other than a yes is a no. Okay, maybe is a no.

Buffy (89:32)

Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to. Maybe. This has been going on since we officially broke up in November.

Nick (89:39)

And you can say, listen, I. I showed up today because I've been sensing that. I thought maybe you wanted to say this, and this is something you want, so, like, I'm here because I want it, too. But if. If you aren't Claire, then I guess I was wrong. And if you need to think about it, then I have my answer. And I guess maybe I just read that differently, and that's okay. I'm not upset. But I just, in kind of, like, in a way was without. Without leaning in too hard. Again, show him the behavior that he probably wishes he had the guts to be, which is Just fucking direct.

Buffy (90:08)

Yeah.

Nick (90:09)

Okay.

Buffy (90:11)

Okay, I can do that.

Nick (90:12)

All right, well, keep me posted. Love to know how this goes.

Buffy (90:15)

Yeah, I will. But I do want to take a moment to say, so I went through something, like, really. I went through a really bad breakup three years ago, and I've been listening to you for so long, and there was a moment that I was. I mean, I was just so. I was so down. This guy had lied for. Had a whole different life that I didn't know about. So it was really hard. And I was just crying, and I was listening to your podcast, and I was just crying in the bathtub, and you had said something, and I don't. I honestly don't remember what it was, but you had said something, and it was just that instant click in my. In my head, and it just. It was. And I. I really can't 100% describe it, but it was a scent. It was just such a sense of relief for me. And I just do want to say, you know, thank you. Because I do think that what you're doing. Yeah, sure, it's like it's a podcast and you guys talk about reality tv, but when you have those moments for people, like, those are like you're. You're affecting people's lives. And that helped me so much. And, yeah, I just wanted to say thank you.

Nick (91:20)

Well, I appreciate you saying that. And this Ask Nick, is my favorite part of what I do, because the other stuff is it's fun, and I hope people find enjoyment out of it, and I hope it gives them a little bit of lightness in an otherwise heavy world. But this stuff is meaningful and I enjoy it. So thanks for saying. All right, take care.

Buffy (91:40)

Thanks, Nick.

Nick (91:41)

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Nick (92:45)

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