Paige (2:28)

I'm like, there's been a couple times. Actually the most recent one. This is like one problem that we've been having recently is me wanting to go to Europe. I booked a ticket. This is something that I've been planning for like a really long time. It's something that I really wanted to do for like my 30th birthday. And so we had talked about it. He said he was uncomfortable with me going alone because I was like, if I can't find anyone, I'm going to go alone.

Nick (2:52)

Did you invite him?

Paige (2:53)

I did.

Nick (2:54)

Okay.

Paige (2:54)

I was like, I was like, if you want to go. But like, I know it's hard for you. I was just like, I'm very like casual about things.

Nick (3:00)

So like, and I think so this is not like I would love you, you know, I'd love for you to go and enjoy my 30th birthday in Europe with you. You didn't say that.

Paige (3:08)

I didn't say that.

Nick (3:10)

No. I'm just, I'm just, I'm. I'm collecting information right now. I'm not.

Paige (3:14)

Can I give a little more context? Ye days he has a 10 year old son. Okay, so. And I know.

Nick (3:20)

Which means what?

Paige (3:22)

Can't really go to Europe for a month or even.

Nick (3:26)

Oh, you. How long, how long do you want to go to Europe for?

Paige (3:31)

I wanted to go for a month.

Nick (3:33)

Are you able to work or, or this is like a Eat Pray Love sabbatical. Like what?

Paige (3:38)

It's, it's pto. I have, I have a bunch of pto. So I, I have the ability to like take the month off and do that if I wanted to.

Nick (3:46)

Yeah. What else? Let's, let's table that for a second. What's another example of a time that you wanted Grace that he wasn't able to give you?

Paige (3:54)

Oh my gosh. And this is going to sound so silly. I guess there's. He's coaches basketball and they had their championship game coming up and it asked me if like I wanted to go and I was like, oh, I worked that day. And he was just like, oh, okay. And like that was it. And I didn't hear much about it until I could like tell on the phone like a couple days later that like he was irritated and like finally he opened up and he was like, yeah, well like this is really important to me and like you're not here for me over this. Like, I don't know, to me it was a little silly because I'm like, you didn't communicate, like, I know basketball is important to you, but you didn't communicate how important it was for me to be there at your guys's championship Game. He's not playing. It's like a. He's just coaching the game. So, like, I mean, I worked, so I didn't really feel like I didn't know it was that important to him, but it wasn't that important to him.

Nick (4:51)

Just out of curiosity, would you, like, whoever your man is, your life partner, if it's him, I don't know. If someone else, Whoever this person ends up being, are you comfortable being the one who has to articulate specifically all the things that are important to you, or are you hoping that he, you know, kind of picks up on some things and. And shows an interest to find out what is important to you, that he. So that he can support you for.

Paige (5:16)

Sure, what you said? Yeah. I mean, at first, I think we're still kind of, like, learning each other, so I'm like.

Nick (5:22)

Yeah. How long have you been dating, by the way?

Paige (5:24)

Almost 11 months now.

Nick (5:25)

Okay. All right.

Paige (5:26)

So. And I've been to his games before. I've been to, like. I went to, like, half of his games.

Nick (5:31)

Sure.

Paige (5:32)

So I just didn't know that this was so important to where, like.

Nick (5:37)

I mean, listen, I. I, like, wanted.

Paige (5:38)

To almost break up with me over it.

Nick (5:40)

Well, there's a couple things here, like, you talked about, like, when did you find out that he. He came from a toxic relationship where two people were just cheating on each other?

Paige (5:49)

I actually knew about it before I even knew him because my. My roommate was involved in it.

Nick (5:55)

Well, how so?

Paige (5:56)

So they work together, or she's a travel nurse, so they work together. Um, and then at that time, I guess him and her were, like, trying to work things out. We're both very similar personalities, like, bubbly. And she got out of, like, a really toxic relationship with her ex, and so he was kind of, like, seeking for advice. Um, and they went out to coffee one day, and they were, like, talking about it, and at this point, like, they weren't, like, together and they weren't not together. You know, they were, like, kind of like, in that. In between him and his ex and him and his ex, and they all worked together at the same time.

Nick (6:33)

Okay, your roommate, his ex and him.

Paige (6:36)

Yes. And so she ended up going, like, crazy, texting my roommate, like, stay the fuck away. Like, all this, like, crazy stuff. It got brought up to hr, she got suspended. She ended up going to his house, spray painting his house. Like, liar, cheater on his house, like, destroyed his electronics. She had a key to the house and, like, slashed his motocross tires and, like, basically everything that he cared About. And they weren't even together. I can't remember if this is at the time that, like, she was. She had a new boyfriend or she was seeing the guy that she cheated on him with or something like that.

Nick (7:11)

I mean, who knows? Yeah, she's. Yeah, I care less about that. I just more care about, like, what your awareness is. So clearly you were very aware of the situation. More than. More aware than I realized. And I guess it's just more like, what. When you decided to date this guy, like, what. What were your expectations of his ability or. Or his emotional state or his ability to be a boyfriend?

Paige (7:32)

And so both of us. Or she. She knew him better than I did, like my roommate. And she was like, you know what? I think he's like, a really great guy. And he's a really great guy. And he was just put in, like, a really shitty toxic situation and kind of like, caved and was spiteful. That was me going into it. I was like, okay, like, so you're.

Nick (7:51)

Your only thought was, he's a. He's a good guy in a bad situation. But did you think about how that situation impacted him, what that might mean for his next girlfriend?

Paige (8:01)

I mean, I definitely did. I don't think he does. Like, I feel like I therapize him a lot. I'm like, is this cut, like, when he says certain things, I'm like, is this coming from somewhere? Like, could it be like, this past thing that happened and like, this is maybe why you're reacting to this in this certain way? And then he'll like, look at me and he'll be like, maybe.

Nick (8:21)

I think what you are describing is very common here. You are this person who got to know someone coming out of a toxic relationship, and you heard as much, right? And then you decided you made a bet. I think this is a pretty good guy in a bad situation, and I'm curious about dating him. And so you decided to date them. Right. And you were aware of the fact that, like, yeah, he might have some baggage that I might have to deal with. And your dealing with it is more you just deciding or questioning when he behaves a certain way. If this is just a projection or a response from a past relationship, and sometimes you point that out of him to be like, this is not really me you're mad at, this is your ex girlfriend, and blah, blah, blah. Right. And it's more about, like, you indirectly or directly suggesting this is a him problem, not really an us problem or a you problem, kind of. Yeah. Well, I think that's a little unfair of you because I do think if you're going to be someone, and I said this to anyone, not just directly talking to you, but we're having a conversation, when you meet someone, someone like him who's coming out of relationship like he was, and you're curious about dating him like you are, in addition to just be the person who's just putting out some projections, you have to be also you have to accept that you are entering a relationship with someone who is a little damaged, who is a little sensitive, who needs some tender, loving Claire and some consideration. And you might have to be willing to accommodate those needs to at least some degree so that you don't trigger the person who's more easily triggered and you don't create an insecurity that's clearly there who hasn't been resolved. And if you're not willing to do that, then maybe it's just more like, I. I just don't know. In this few minutes we've been talking, you kind of come across as this kind of chill, kind of laissez faire girl who, like, definitely wants a boyfriend, but, you know, has her things going on too, and she wants to do some things. And you want to find a man who's, like, generally, like, secure and comfortable in his own skin so that, like, as long as you aren't actually doing anything wrong and you want to go to backpacking Europe for a month, and as long as you're faithful, you expect a man to be okay with that because you're not doing anything wrong.

Paige (10:29)

You hit the nail on the head with that.

Nick (10:32)

So. Well, and that's fine, and you can be that person. But, like, if you want to be that person, you shouldn't be dating someone like him in this moment. And if you want to date someone like him in this moment, then you need to be a little bit more empathetic and you need to be willing to be a little bit more willing to cater to his needs.

Paige (10:49)

And that's kind of like the issue that we're having right now too, with the whole Europe thing is, like, me, like, needing, wanting to compromise or like him wanting me to compromise. And it's so hard for me because, like, I'm so independent and my last relationship, my ex, was super toxic, wouldn't let me go anywhere.

Nick (11:10)

So you're projecting too, friends.

Paige (11:13)

So it's like, it's like that, like, and I promised myself, like, I would never be in a relationship where, like, someone told me, like, I couldn't, like, go somewhere you know.

Nick (11:23)

You'Re friends, you're only 30, but I asked this from time to time with people, but what are your relationship goals both Today as a 30 year old woman and long term? And do you think your long term relationship goals match with your current relationship goals as a 30 year old woman?

Paige (11:38)

I know my long term relationship goals is like, I, I do want to have kids, you know, I want to move in together. I told him though, I wouldn't move in unless like, unless he basically proposed to me because I don't want to move in and be a part of this kid's life.

Nick (11:52)

So, you know, I'm going to interrupt, like what, Forget about him for a second. I just want to know your relationship goals, like what do you want for yourself as it relates to the type of relationship that you want? And if you think about your long term goals, are they matching with your short term goals?

Paige (12:09)

Long term goals is definitely family.

Nick (12:11)

Okay.

Paige (12:12)

That's what I want.

Nick (12:13)

Okay.

Paige (12:13)

Yeah.

Nick (12:14)

And then short term, but yeah, do you want that now? Is that something you want as of.

Paige (12:18)

Today, start working towards maybe within like the next year? Not. Definitely not right now. I feel like, okay, I'm still in a spot in like my professional career, which I want to like continue that.

Nick (12:32)

And what are his relationship goals right now? Do you know?

Paige (12:36)

Three years. At first he didn't want to have kids, but he said that if he does have kids it has to be with the right person. So I think that's also why he's being super hard on me, because he already has a kid with someone that it didn't work out with. So yeah, I mean, within the next couple years, he said that's his goal. He doesn't want to be a dad to like a newborn when he's that much older, which he's not even that old. He's like 31.

Nick (12:58)

Sure. I mean, yeah. Honestly, it sounds like a man who's been fucked up a little bit and has a lot of baggage and a little bit of trauma and a little bit resentment about having a partner. The same way women, if they date a bunch of shitty, toxic men, have a certain opinion about men in general and he might have a certain opinion about like women as, as partners at least. I honestly think the basketball thing is more important than the Europe thing.

Paige (13:21)

Do you think so?

Nick (13:21)

I mean, listen, like, as adults, especially parents, you have a kid, you got to support your kid. You have a job. You know, most jobs, even the great jobs are fucking jobs and they're mundane and you know, it's Just like it's hard to find passion, projects, things that make us proud of ourselves, accomplishments and things like that. And every person, but especially men. Men want to feel supported. They want to have cheerleaders. They want people to be proud of them. You know, like, men want people to be proud of them. They want their kids to be proud of them. They want their partners to be proud of them. As a man, I know that I don't know if having a partner be proud of you is as important to women as it is to men, but I'm telling you, as men, it's important. As someone who did go to a lot of his games, he assumed or at least hoped that you would pick up on how important this was to him, as silly as you might have thought it was, and the fact that he made it to the championship game at whatever level it is he gave a shit about, and he wanted you to be proud of him, and he wanted you to want to show up and think it was pretty cool that he was able to coach a bunch of kids to a championship game and be a good mentor and. And a role model. And he wanted you to see him not only coach, but, like, you know, get these kids together and bring the best out of these kids. And he wanted you to see that, and he wanted you to acknowledge that and be proud of him. You were just like, yeah, I mean, I gotta work.

Paige (14:40)

Yeah.

Nick (14:40)

And now you have a month of PTO saved up so that you can go backpacking Europe. But, like, you couldn't take an afternoon off to support. I'm just, you know, it's hard. I'm just telling you, if you want to know from his point of view what he was looking for and why it mattered to him. That's why I think that's really important in a relationship for you to be aware of. And it's. It's totally okay for you not in a place right now to really give a shit about that kind of stuff right now, but if you're not wanting or willing to give a shit about that kind of stuff right now, coupled with the fact that you kind of want to just disappear for a month in Europe, A, I don't know if you're, like, in a position to have a boyfriend, period, or. And B, it probably definitely isn't him, I do think you can have a little bit more balance in your life. And I think it sounds like you also have a little bit of, like, resentment from past boyfriends as well, because there's a difference between going on a girls trip for a couple of days and disappearing for a month. Like the type of vacation you're describing. Like, you should want to go meet like a spicy European and have some fun, like sex for a night. Because that's the kind of trip you're describing. Like who goes to, who goes to Europe for a month by themselves if they're not going to get laid? You know, like, I'm kind of joking, but like, I'm also kind of not. Like, the type of trip you're describing is one of like, I'm just going to go and be open. I'm just going to go and explore. You know, if I, I would, as if we were in a relationship and you would describe, I would, I would be like, yeah, little uncomfy. It sounds like you, you know, it sounds like what I want from this is not something that fits with what you want for yourself.

Paige (16:17)

And that's what he was saying.

Nick (16:19)

Yeah. And yeah, someone who's coming from a toxic relationship, I absolutely get his response of being like, yeah, I'm just like, not down for just like, like, do what you want. But like, I'm just, I, I, I, I'm not in a position to put myself through that right now and like, stress about what you're doing and feeling insecure for an entire month while you're in Europe. You know, when we're in relationships, like, you know, as much as we don't want jealous or controlling partners, we don't want to be insecure, neurotic people who get triggered by our partners, you know. And so oftentimes, especially when we get cheated, you know, like, you know, we always want, I want to trust my partner. I want to, I want to give my partner a benefit of the doubt. And then we do that and then they us over, you know, and it's just like, and then we're just like, it's like, was I a pushover? Should I had, like, should I trust in my gut earlier? Should I have. You know, it's like, it's hard to know what's the balance. You know, we, we feels as humans, as people who are dating, that like, every time I give an inch, people take a foot. I'm not going to give more than I need, you know, so like, yeah, like, I, he's not in a position to give you unconditional trust and support right now. So if you want to like, kind of do extra, you know, like out of the ordinary things, he's just not capable of giving you that type of trust and security right now. And He. And you kind of should have known that, you know, like, this is not a surprise.

Paige (17:41)

I feel like. So, I mean, from like, a little bit more perspective, like, there has been trips that I've gone on with, like, friends and stuff. Like, I went to Mexico for a wedding with my friend, the same friend that I'm going to go to Europe with. And, like, I went to Hawaii for my birthday. He actually bought my plane ticket to Hawaii for my 30th birthday. But, like, in the whole time that I'm there, I'm like, texting him. We FaceTime all the time. And so I was like, have. At any point, like, have I ever made you feel uncomfortable that I was doing anything wrong? And he's like, well, no, it's not really about that. Very comfortable. I felt very safe. And I'm like, okay, well, why don't. Why do you think, like, this is going to be different?

Nick (18:21)

Because it is different. I feel like it's just. It's literally different.

Paige (18:24)

But how?

Nick (18:25)

Well, you took a trip with the girls to Hawaii for a limited period of time, and now you want to go to Europe by yourself for a month, so it's different.

Paige (18:35)

Well, I'm not going by myself because he said, I can't. And I was like, okay, well, then I'll find someone to go with. And he was like, okay. And so I did. And then he's like, well, I'm not comfortable with the amount of time. And he, like, mentioned it. Like, we didn't really talk about it much.

Nick (18:49)

I mean, the truth is, what I'm hearing is like, I'm sure he would love to be comfortable with it. I'm sure he'd love to. And him saying, hey, well, I'm not comfortable going by yourself. And then, you know what you did? You found someone, and he was probably hoping you wouldn't find someone, and then you did. And he's like, ah, well, I guess I'm uncomfortable. It's like, he doesn't want to be jealous. He doesn't want to say no. He just knows how he is going to feel when you're there. And he wants to avoid that feeling. And it's understandable why he has that feeling. It just is. It doesn't make it right. It doesn't mean you have to be happy with it, but it is understandable. And relationships are about sacrifice. And again, your energy, I can just tell, like, your energy requires a man that's confident or it just requires you to maybe. You know, I'm sure if you listen to the show, you've heard me say to a lot of men or to women about their boyfriends that it sounds like a guy who likes having a girlfriend but doesn't like being a boyfriend. And you're kind of giving me the same energy that you like having a boyfriend. But, like, as far as being a girlfriend, like, you know, you can take it or leave it, and what you really want is kind of an understanding boyfriend who, like, is generally chill and cool with you having your independence. If you ever get asked to do something where it's like, you don't. You'd rather not do it, it feels, or you tell yourself it's more a man taking away your independence rather than, like, you making a sacrifice for the relationship. And, like, maybe you're just, like, not down or ready to, like, have a boyfriend right now. Maybe you just, like, you like having a guy, you like having a nice guy, and you like the conversations having a guy in your life can bring and the regular sex from time to time. And having a boyfriend is really nice, but, like, you don't exactly love being a girlfriend.

Paige (20:24)

That's what I'm trying to grapple with. And being able to compromise was something that I felt so strongly about. I feel like I'm having trouble doing it because we both agreed at first he wanted to break up, and then he's like, no, I love you too much. I don't want to do that, but this is my boundary. And he told me his boundary, and so I'm like, okay, well, I also don't want to break up, and I do want to spend the rest of my life with you, so I'm gonna change my flight, basically. But I'm just having trouble. Like, I'm just having trouble with it.

Nick (20:57)

Well, I mean, listen, if you're gonna resent him for it, they're not doing anyone any good. If you can actually say you love him and you can say, like, this is a man I really see myself spending the rest of my life with, then you're gonna have at times to make some sacrifices and. And not look at it as, like, oh, God, I can't believe I had to fucking do this for another guy. You know? It's like, nah, I love this man. I under. I understand why he feels the way he does. And while I'm disappointed that I don't get to do what I want to do, I love him, and I don't want to put him through that. And honestly, if the roles were reversed, I would totally get why it would make him uncomfortable. And Why I would be anxious, and I don't want to do that for him. And I can always go to Europe again, and maybe we can go for a period of time and, like, this isn't the end of the world. I'm happier being happy with him than going to Europe by myself for a month. And you're just comfortable with the compromise. So you'll just have to decide which. Which is more true for you. But, like, if you're going to resent him over it, don't bother. Like, don't. Don't bother. Maybe you both have some trauma you need to work through as individuals.

Paige (21:55)

For sure. For sure. I brought up, like, couples therapy and stuff like that, but he's like, well, we can just do it on our own.

Nick (22:03)

Do what? Clearly not. Honestly, it kind of sounds like you guys are more. More in need of individual therapy right now.

Paige (22:09)

Yeah, I was looking into it, but when I called my insurance, they were like, there's no available therapists in your area.

Nick (22:15)

Really?

Paige (22:16)

Yeah.

Nick (22:16)

You know, when people are resistant to therapy, they act like it's some fucking magic. It's just like, I don't believe in it because, like, you know, and some people are maybe give therapy too much credit. Like, sometimes all it is is just. It's. It's someone who is a professional who knows how to create a safe space to allow you to just talk things through, get it out and work through some things, like. Like we're doing now, you know, but they're a little bit more experienced and trained to do that and hopefully be helpful. And instead of him or you just, like, constantly ruminating about your insecurities and fears and, like, you know, asking friends who have no fucking clue what they're talking about and then just projecting their wants and dreams for themselves onto you and, you know, just get a bunch of bad advice. Like, I don't know, maybe just, like, run it by someone who doesn't have a. Like a dog in the fight, you know, and just can kind of just help you workshop your thoughts and feelings. That's all it is. It's not some magical thing, you know, it doesn't. You don't walk into therapy one day and come out a different person. It's just. It's an outlet. It's a way to just workshop, you know, things with someone who actually might, like, help you workshop rather than just ruminating over and over. It does sound like he has some stuff to work through. You have some stuff to work through. At times, you guys trigger each other intentionally or not, and Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm all for couples therapy. I don't think we need to do it together. I think it's easier without doing, you know, because right now, what you're describing, there's. There's a lot of well intentioned behavior here. There's a lot of like, at times being disappointed with the other person or triggered by the other person, but, like trying to work through it. But you guys are having a hard time doing that, and that's okay. It's normal. So, like, what do you guys have? What do you guys have to lose?

Paige (24:00)

Yeah, very true, very true.

Nick (24:03)

You can say, like, listen, I. I also don't want to feel resentment. You know, these are all just natural feelings you guys are feeling because you're not like, you're. You guys came into this relationship a couple of broken little birds, and you're doing your best to, to help heal each other, and it's just like, harder than you thought, you know, and it usually is.

Paige (24:20)

It's not, not easy, that's for sure. I think the part that gets me is like, it hurts me. When he was like, well, I just don't have any, like, patience or grace to give you. Especially like, at the beginning of our relationship when we weren't like, like official official, but we were like, we're not gonna like, bring anyone back to our, our houses. Like, that was like the boundary, like, we kind of set. And then he ended up bucking his ex. And then her current boyfriend messaged me about it as I was walking up to his house and like, saying all these things. And I was like, that, this is weird. Like, I just got this random number. This was like, this was before we, like, started dating. So actually it was probably about a whole year ago. And I asked him about it. I was like, is this true? And he was like, no, like, it's not true. And then like, I asked him about it again and he said no. And then I gave him another chance to like. Because it just felt weird. I was like, are you sure it's not true? And he's like, no, like, it's not. And then come to find out it was true. They ended up, like, hooking up at work, which is crazy to me, like, having sex at work. I didn't think it was sex. I thought it was just like hooking up, like, fingering, blah, blah, blah. I didn't think that they would actually do that at work. And then he brought her over to his house, and then the boyfriend found out he had her location or like, something Happened like, it was turned off or she had it. I don't know. He ended up, like, going and, like, staking out her house, and then saw my current boyfriend now, like, driving her back to his house, so.

Nick (25:48)

Did you ever admit it?

Paige (25:49)

He finally admitted it. Yeah, I finally got it out of him. Like, at first, he just ignored me and just, like, stopped talking to me, like, cold turkey, which I was like, this is crazy. I was like. I was like, I know something's up. I was like, be a man and just, like, say it to my face. And he did. We, like, we ended up working through it. I was like, I wanted to work through it. I don't know.

Megan (26:11)

There was just.

Paige (26:11)

There's just like, something different about him. Like, there's something different about him, and we have really great chemistry. He's a great dad. Like, he checks off so many, like, boxes for me. And so I, like, put my ego aside, and I was like, okay, like, if we can actually do this and work on this, then, like, I think, like, we can do anything. Like, we can, like, work through anything. And that's, like, a great, like, foundation for a relationship if we can really get through this. And I have to also now work with this girl. She, like, left their work, and then she came to my work.

Nick (26:40)

His ex?

Paige (26:41)

Yeah, his ex. So I, like, have been working with her for the past, like, six, seven months. And, like, I have to see her every day at work. And, like, so, like, that's my journey that I have to go through.

Nick (26:51)

I mean, like, why do you care? You won. I mean, if you. I mean, the. Yeah, I mean, the hooking up with her, like, I don't know.

Paige (26:58)

Like, I know it was the lying. It was the lying.

Nick (27:01)

Sure. For sure. Because, like, I mean, you know, this guy's had sex with her hundreds of times. I mean, like, I'm not saying you shouldn't have cared, but, like, you're right. The physical aspect, it's like, you. You know, you weren't even dating. Like, we've all, like, that toxic breakup sex with exes, and it's just, like, it just. You know, or it's not okay. But, like, I get your point. It's kind of. It's easier to forgive in the situation that you're in.

Paige (27:21)

Like, and that's where I'm like, okay, like, I was able to, like, forgive you for this. But, like, the things that I feel like, I don't know, the things that he's, like, coming to me and, like, wanting to, like, break up with me over. I'M like, really?

Nick (27:34)

Like, it doesn't really work that way. Right? Like, trading, like, what you want is, like, an IOU for accepting his toxic behavior, so to speak, and do something that's a little unhealthy for the relationship, but you want to be okay with it because you were okay with it. This doesn't work that way. If you want a healthy relationship, then you guys have to trade healthy actions, not trade toxic actions. Yeah, it doesn't make it fair, and it doesn't make it right. But, like, that, you know, that's the only. You know, if you want a healthy relationship, that's the only choice you have. And, like, I also think his wording maybe just, like, could have had some better tact. It's like, I think he's being honest when he says, I can't give you that grace, you know? And also, like, if you're ready to be in a healthy relationship, receiving grace from your partner shouldn't be your, like, primary goal. Like, you know, how much grace do you need? This is really just him knowing that, like, this is a big ask and he's not in a position to do it. And, like, yeah, like, you could stubbornly say, I need to do this. I promise myself, I'm gonna go to Europe. I'm gonna Europe. And he can be like, all right, you know, and then he could tell you he's going to break up with you. He's, you know, he's going to. He could tell you, this is my boundary. But, like, we always break our boundaries. Right? So you could go to Europe and he could be like, all right, fine. I. I'm. No, I'm going to really see if I can do this. He's not going to be able to help how he feels. And this is already a man that, like, as you know, you gave him the grace from cheating on his ex because you decided that he was put in a position and then triggered and then kind of, like, weakly, like, responded to her toxic behavior. And that's what, you know. So you're just. Again, he is trying to protect himself from himself. You decided you wanted to get in a relationship with a man who was clearly wounded and yet to be healed, and you thought, hey, we can work through anything. But you going to Europe by yourself after him saying, this is going to. This is going to be hard for me. Is you two not working through anything. Like, sure, maybe you can work through anything, but that requires two people willing to. You have to make sure the relationship is. Is the top priority, and a healthy Relationship is a top priority. It's really hard to work through anything where you're like, yeah, but I also just want to be me and I also just kind of want to do what I want to do. Yeah, I know this one's going to trigger you, but this is like, it's not fair, you know, and if you're worried about fairness and getting your way and keeping score, then tougher to accomplish the anything.

Paige (29:51)

Do you have any suggestions on what specifically? Just like, I guess it's hard for us to like communicate like certain aspects. Like, I'm really good at communicating like how I'm feeling, but not so great at communicating like, other things. And he's not great at communicating like, how he feels about certain situations.

Nick (30:09)

I think it just, it's just kind of having a come to Jesus moment of I love you or I mean, if that's how you feel, I care about you. Like, you guys have to. Again, when I say, what are your relationship goals? It's kind of like, what, what do we, what do we want here? Like, do, do we want to do this and what is this and what do we want for ourselves in the future? You know, you're 30 years old, you know, you're not 19. It's easier to just be 19 and be like, I don't know, I like you. It's not that complicated. Let's date. You know, as a 30 year old woman, like, you have to consider what the future looks like with this guy. You know, you have to consider like, what path you guys are on, you know, so it's just like sitting down and just being like, I want to make this work. I really, like, despite all the things we talked about, like, but I really think we're both a little wounded and I think we both came into this relationship with some baggage and like, maybe we can do it our own, but I don't want to do it our own. And I just, I. What I want more than anything is to make this work with you. And you know, if you feel the same way, let's, let's go out of our way. And I, if that's how you feel, I would acknowledge the, the importance of that basketball game. I would say, hey, listen, I did something, I talked to some friends, whatever. I'm sorry for not going. I know it was really important to you and I am really proud of you and I'm sorry I didn't show that. And next time I'll be there in your special moments and then make sure you show up. Men, men want you know, like, it's like, you know, it's 20, 25. We're lucky enough not to hopefully go to war, to go to battle to prove our manhood and, like, do these kind of things. But, like, men need to feel a certain type of way and need. Men need. Men want to feel needed. They want to feel respected. They want to feel, you know, and sometimes we have to do little things like coach boys to get that sense of accomplishment. Because even maybe, you know, he's a nurse. Sounds like.

Paige (31:54)

Yeah, yeah.

Nick (31:55)

You know, and like, you know, and he can play hero and be a hero sometimes, but, you know, a job is a job. And, you know, maybe he just doesn't get that every day from work. Or maybe he used to and now. Now work is just this toxic workplace of, you know, whatever. I'm just saying, like, it's important for you to pay attention of that. Whatever partner you have, of the things that make him feel validated, the things that make him have some pride in himself and acknowledge that and support that. It's like, that's. I say that to all the ladies out there, you know, like, there's no easier way to get your. Your male partner to hate you than treat him like a useful idiot. If. If all your boyfriend or your husband is at some point is just like a guy you roll your eyes at and just kind of does and says stupid things, he's gonna hate you. He's gonna hate you. So, like, yeah, we just. We all wanna be respected, you know, we all wanna be validated. And men need it too. So just look for those ways to, like, make it feel special. You don't have to love it either, but we all need it.

Paige (32:51)

Okay.

Nick (32:52)

Is this helpful?

Paige (32:53)

Yeah, it's nice. Because I don't. I mean, I don't have, like, crazy amount of guy friends, so it's nice to hear, you know, the male's perspective and, like, I already knew some of this stuff, but, like, I need to actually do it. And, like, my ego is not my amigo. Like, I need to, like, put that aside.

Nick (33:14)

Yeah. I mean, yeah, if this is about a relationship, it's literally not about just you. It's. It's a we and us thing. So if the priority is we and us, then take actions that show that. And if. If the priority isn't we and us, and if the priority is you right now, that's totally okay. You're only 30, but just like, you know, can't have your cake and eat it too. You have to also want to be a Girlfriend. Because he already knows what it's like to. To have a girlfriend who you wanted all the benefits of having a boyfriend.

Paige (33:42)

Thank you.

Nick (33:43)

All right. Also, it's one last thing. It's probably not easy for him. I bet he hates saying no to you. I bet he does. So just acknowledge that. Certainly not a perfect guy, but he does not sound like. He sounds like the opposite of a jealous. And the man bought you a plane ticket to leave him for your birthday and then you went on a trip. But everyone has their limits.

Paige (34:05)

Well, it wasn't my actual birthday. It was after my birthday.

Nick (34:07)

I spent my birthday. I'm just saying. He bought you a ticket to leave to go on a trip. The actions of a guy who's inherently jealous or insecure. But everyone has their limits. You know, just because he's setting this boundary doesn't mean he's some sort of jealous, possessive boyfriend.

Paige (34:20)

Very true.

Nick (34:21)

Good luck. Keep me posted. Love to. Love to know what happens.

Paige (34:25)

Okay, I'll let you guys know.

Nick (34:27)

All right, take care.

Paige (34:28)

Thank you.

Nick (34:29)

Enjoy your trip.

Paige (34:30)

Okay. All right, well, have a good rest of your guys day.

Nick (34:33)

You too. Take care.

Paige (34:34)

I appreciate you guys having me on.

Nick (34:35)

I appreciate you coming on. Thanks. All right, thanks. Bye. Bye.

Paige (34:38)

Bye.

Nick (34:40)

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Nick (38:12)

How'S it going?

Megan (38:13)

Hi, my name is Harper and I'm 27. Am I crazy for wanting to get back with a guy who ghosted me?

Nick (38:21)

Well, why do you want to get back together with a guy who ghosted you?

Megan (38:24)

Well, I really thought that I was in love. We were dating for about a whole summer. So, like from April until August, it was kind of like a spring fling, essentially. And summertime, I felt like I was in love. We had, like the same values. He was, like, really easy to talk to, but I could talk to a rock. So that's not really saying much. But I did feel like I could talk to him pretty easily. And he ghosted me. So it was like overnight he disappeared. And then he came back six months later and tried to start up a conversation with me. And I really am considering getting back to together with him.

Nick (39:10)

Have you asked him why he ghosted you?

Megan (39:12)

No, I didn't.

Nick (39:14)

Why not?

Megan (39:15)

Because I think I made him spiral a little bit also.

Nick (39:20)

Well, I mean, maybe you did, but that's not an excuse.

Megan (39:25)

I know, but I feel like I'm the problem sometimes.

Nick (39:28)

Maybe you are, but, like, you both could be the problem.

Megan (39:31)

I need you to tell me that I'm the problem.

Nick (39:34)

Why do you think you're the problem?

Megan (39:36)

I can't date casually. So when I meet a guy and I like him, I, like, immediately want to jump into a relationship. And so I start planning dates. I start in my mind thinking of a future with him. I can't just go out on a date and have fun.

Nick (39:55)

Okay, well, I mean, listen, what you're describing, isn't that crazy? I mean, it might be crazy for 20, 25, I suppose, but doesn't mean you're wrong and they're right. But I think there's a balance. What I'm sensing, though, from you is just like you're tell me I'm the problem is like what you said, right? I had a habit when I was younger when I didn't get my way of finding it easier to just decide that I was the problem. Because if I was the problem, then I Could fix the problem and then I could get what I wanted.

Megan (40:22)

Yeah.

Nick (40:23)

And so it wasn't like, you know. Yeah, I guess in some ways that was a problem and that made me the problem. But the problem really, that really wasn't my motivation and I wasn't really being honest with myself. And so while it was a problem, I was doing that. I wasn't aware of that. Right. So like, could you have to make a tweak when it comes to, when you like a guy of being a little bit more self aware that things are still early and that you still have a lot to get to know about this person and just be mindful of that. So it reminds you to slow down from time to time. Sure. But that doesn't mean it's wrong for you to, when you meet a guy you like, want to solely focus on that man and the potential of the relationship and visualize what a life with him might be. Like. That's not crazy and that's not wrong. And now I know we live in a time in 2025 where every guy and a lot of women, to be honest, want to just like, take it slow or be chill for like three years in a situationship while they have like regular sex, but don't have to like show up as a boyfriend or a girlfriend when their partner says, hey, I need you to show up for me because I want a partner right now. And they want to be able to be like, well, I don't know, I'm not, you know, like that's like, that's some, some boyfriend shit. And we're not boyfriend and girlfriend, you know, we're just dating. But you're not wrong for wanting that. And so maybe, yeah, might you need to tweak that a little bit? Sure. But I don't think it requires you to do a 180 and start like taking back men who were not like mature enough to say, hey, listen, like, this is moving a little fast for me and I don't know if I'm as interested as I thought I was and allow you to get mad at him or upset and then like, take a break. He wasn't man enough to do that or mature enough to do that. He just ghosted you and then he decided to come back, ask for another chance. Didn't even show up with a reason and you're considering taking him back not even knowing the why. I mean, the why is probably like, you know the answer. He wasn't mature enough to give you an answer and you don't want to hold him accountable for his lack of maturity. You just want him again. And you would rather it's just easier for you to convince yourself that you're the problem?

Megan (42:28)

Yeah, essentially, yeah.

Nick (42:30)

Okay.

Megan (42:31)

I feel like this is a common occurrence, though. Like, I date these guys or I talk to these guys and then they leave. And I have a friend, she has a guy, like, super hooked on her right now, and she plays a game with him. Like, she's like. Just keeps him coming back. I mean, they've been doing this for like two years, and I feel like maybe I'm too easy of a catch and that's why they leave.

Nick (43:00)

Maybe. Possibly it's not so much that you're easier catch, but you might be someone who has a hard time enforcing a boundary. It's, you know, and if. When we sense that someone can enforce a boundary, then it's very easy for us to kind of walk all over them.

Megan (43:15)

I don't want to be walked over.

Nick (43:17)

So when you. When you say something that's important to you, you have to follow through, even if that means not getting what you want.

Megan (43:24)

More dates.

Nick (43:25)

And so the answer isn't being the girl who knows how to play men and play games with them and keeps them wrapped around their fingers for two years, because it's always back and forth. But maybe you can learn a thing or two from her in terms of her ability to stand her ground and say no, not being worried about his reaction and have the confidence in herself that. That I'll be okay.

Megan (43:49)

That's scary.

Nick (43:50)

Sure. Yeah. But, like, your fear is what people sense. And that sensing of your fear of it's scared to, like, do the thing that you're afraid of is why people feel confident taking you for granted.

Megan (44:02)

And so I come across as easy.

Nick (44:04)

And not as valuable value, but, like, just if people know they can get away with something, they're gonna try, you know?

Megan (44:13)

So should I start going on more dates because I haven't been on any good dates recently?

Nick (44:19)

You're always gonna go on more bad dates than good dates. That's just how it works. And if all your dates are good, then that is. That is you problem. Because clearly you do not have enough of, like, expectations of what a good date should be like. But so having bad dates in some way is a good sign that you at least have some expectations of what you like and don't like. And there are more people in this world who have less in common with you than more in common with you. Which is why meeting someone who you feel connected to that's what makes it exciting and special because it's hard to find.

Megan (44:50)

Okay.

Nick (44:50)

But when you like a guy, the trick is to, like, still be able to tell him what you expect and what you want. And if he doesn't, if he's not capable of giving it, just being okay, it's like, okay, move on. Yeah. Because if they really care, they will come back. And that the difference between you and your friend is she knows that and you don't. She knows that if a guy, regardless of what a man says or does in the moment, if he really wants her, he'll come back. And so she stands. She stands her ground.

Megan (45:17)

So I can text him back and ask him why he ghosted me and then go from there.

Nick (45:23)

I mean, you know, probably not. You know. You know the why. What do you think would be an answer that would sound like, oh, well, that's actually a pretty good explanation. I. I overreacted. Someone died even then. It's like, you couldn't have called then.

Megan (45:42)

He should have communicated that. Yeah. I think that mostly he was just going through a lot, possibly.

Nick (45:51)

And so you're just guessing.

Megan (45:53)

Yeah.

Nick (45:53)

And your guess is like, the nicest version, which is like, he just. He was just going through a lot.

Megan (46:00)

Well, I mean, his comeback line wasn't even good. He was just like, hey, I've been thinking about you. Hope you're okay. That was how he came back after he ghosted me.

Nick (46:10)

Yeah. It's like, as easy as if he was doing you a favor by thinking about you.

Megan (46:14)

No, I don't like him as much.

Nick (46:16)

You taking him back would give him immediate permission to leave again.

Megan (46:20)

Yes. Because he thinks he can get away with it.

Nick (46:23)

Yeah.

Megan (46:24)

Okay. But it's hard to find people. Like, I grew up in, like, a conservative household, and he and I have similar, like, values.

Nick (46:37)

Yeah.

Megan (46:38)

And I'm finding that very hard to find out here. Dating and talking to men, what are those values? You know, ready to have kids, let's put a house together.

Nick (46:50)

He does not sound like he's ready for either.

Megan (46:53)

Right.

Nick (46:55)

I always say every boy eventually is ready to, like, settle down and have a family. They're just not ready yet.

Megan (47:03)

How do you get them to be ready for you, though?

Nick (47:05)

You stand your ground. You know what it. You do not try to get them to like you. You do not try to get them to you. You tell them exactly what your expectations are or what you need in a relationship, and you say, take it or leave it, and you give them one chance.

Megan (47:21)

But I feel like that just scares away a Lot of men. I guess we're just trying to.

Nick (47:25)

Are you trying to have a lot of men? Are you trying to have one man?

Megan (47:28)

I'm just trying to have fun, for sure. Okay. So I have to stand my ground.

Nick (47:33)

Yeah. You're not looking for somebody you know, you're looking for your person. How old are you again?

Megan (47:38)

27.

Nick (47:39)

Yeah. Still very young.

Megan (47:41)

I'll be 28 in a couple of weeks.

Nick (47:43)

Happy birthday.

Megan (47:43)

I feel like all my friends are, like, getting married and, like, finding their person.

Nick (47:47)

Good for them. Half of them will be divorced, man. Just true. Smaller sample size, so maybe a quarter of them. But, like, it's just not a race. It's like it doesn't matter. Like it does. Doesn't matter. Be happy for your friends, be excited for your friends, be optimistic for your friends and be their friend. But it has nothing to do with your life and your timeline and doesn't say anything about your ability to find love, especially healthy love. I mean, it's just not a race.

Megan (48:16)

How do you know if your expectations are too high?

Nick (48:20)

Like, what are your. I mean, I'm guessing they're not like that.

Megan (48:24)

I'm. I was willing to take a guy back who, without any explanation.

Nick (48:31)

No, I don't know. What do you think is reasonable behavior? You know, just like, common sense. You have common sense. You need to use your common sense, and you have to stop trying to convince yourself that you're the problem because it's, you know, because, like, that's easier than getting rejected a few times.

Megan (48:46)

What's funny is, like, when you talk to other people, I'm like, the clear answer is just so. It's so clear. But, like, when it comes to yourself.

Nick (48:54)

Yeah.

Megan (48:54)

You feel like you're so different.

Nick (48:57)

Well, because you're, you know, you're. You're emotionally invested. Your ego takes over. You know, it's just like, also, you know, it's like we want to be empathetic and we want to be nice and we want to be self aware and like, all these things that allow us to convince ourselves that we're the problem or there's something we can do. But that's why it's good to have a friend or two that, you know, we know is always gonna be honest with us or a therapist or, you know, just someone we can bend their ear and hold ourselves accountable because. Yeah, it is always harder to take our own advice because you are emotionally invested in the outcome and you're not emotionally invested in the outcome of, like, other callers you listen to or when you give advice, you know, to people. You know, you're just, you're not invested. So, you know, when we're invested, it's harder to see more clearly. So that, that's, that's all okay. I think you know the answers. You just have to use a little common sense and listen, like, don't apologize for knowing what you want, but like, when you like a guy, just, it's like, I, I know I like you and I want to date. I. There's a lot I, you know, said I, I. We still have a lot to get to knowing about each other. And I don't know if you're my guy, but I do, like, I do see a lot of potential. And when you talk to yourself, it's the same thing. I'm really excited about him and I wonder what a lot, you know, I wonder what it would be like to settle down with this person. But, you know, I still have to learn about them and I have to be open to being wrong and, you know, and is he just kind of keeping your, you know, that if you're going to be honest, that's how you be honest with yourself and you just kind of take it day by day. But like, that honesty about, like, knowing that you, you, you still have a lot to learn about them, like, stops you from, like, being the person who like, does actually want to, like, play house and like, add a little too much pressure or, you know, demand that, you know, like three months in, that we introduce each other to our parents because, like, I need that benchmark that really means nothing. But you tell yourself it means something because, you know, it's like forcing next steps that you know, aren't necessary. You know, you want to learn about just how they behave. You want to observe them, how they, you know, just, just you have to be patient and listen and observe when we get to know people at times and just be open to being wrong.

Megan (51:08)

I met his family like two weeks in.

Nick (51:11)

Yeah.

Megan (51:12)

And like, that didn't mean anything.

Nick (51:13)

Exactly.

Megan (51:14)

Okay.

Nick (51:15)

Because meeting people's parents means different things to different people.

Megan (51:19)

So I can't text him back.

Nick (51:21)

You can do whatever you want, but, you know, if you want to make progress and if you want to start incorporating some of these behaviors we talked about and you want to make real change. If you are part of the problem, your problem is not holding yourself accountable and enforcing boundaries and having that self respect.

Megan (51:42)

Okay, so I'm not going to text him that. I wanted to know why he really did ghost me, but I guess we know that he Just wasn't because he thought.

Nick (51:50)

He didn't care. He either didn't care or he met someone else he liked a little bit better than you, and that fell through. And now he's. He's texting you back because he's bored.

Megan (52:02)

That's not what I wanted to hear.

Nick (52:06)

I mean, like, if. If it was like some profound thing where he realized he made the biggest mistake of his life and he has to do anything to get you back. I don't think a. A text being like, hey, been thinking about you. Hope you're good. It would be what he would do.

Megan (52:19)

Yeah. Okay.

Nick (52:22)

He's just honestly testing. He's curious. He's wondering how much power he has over you.

Megan (52:29)

Okay, well, he doesn't have any.

Nick (52:31)

He has a little, but you can change that real quick. Yeah, but you have to let it go. You have to just accept that this is a man who ghosted me. And I don't fuck with those type of people. I don't give second chances for bad behavior. Certainly not someone that I have no history or emotional connection with. It's not like you guys have a three year relationship and a child together or whatever. And he fucked up. And as much as he fucked up, he's really sorry and really willing to do the work and goes out of his way to actually take action, to do some work without you making. This is not what this is. This is a guy you hung out with for a little bit of a time and got bored and disappeared and now is, like, hoping that you. You don't have any self respect.

Megan (53:17)

Okay.

Nick (53:18)

Okay.

Megan (53:19)

Yes.

Nick (53:21)

All right.

Megan (53:21)

Thanks.

Nick (53:22)

My pleasure. Good luck out there.

Megan (53:24)

I'm not gonna call.

Nick (53:25)

All right, why don't you just go ahead and block them?

Megan (53:28)

I can.

Nick (53:29)

Yeah. Definitely can. Probably should.

Megan (53:32)

Okay, I will.

Nick (53:33)

All right. Good luck out there. All right.

Megan (53:36)

Thank you.

Nick (53:36)

Okay, Bye.

Megan (53:37)

Bye.

Nick (53:39)

Well, I. As you guys, I think I mentioned this. On Tuesday, I was away from my family for three terrible nights of sleep because where I was staying did not have a Helix mattress. And I tossed and turned like that pretty princess and princesses in the pea because I did not have my Helix mattress, allowing me to have the best sleep of my life, which I have every night that I'm in the comfort of my home. Because we have been resting our pretty eyes on a Helix mattress for over five years now. We could not be more thankful for the greatest matches ever created by mankind.

Harper (54:06)

You should have seen Nick the night he got home. The way that this man, like, like, got in the bed and immediately was. It was like, it was lights out. It was immediately. And it is because of Helix Sleep. They have a lineup of 20 unique mattresses. So it doesn't matter if you are, if you are a side sleeper, back sleeper, stomach sleeper, fetal position sleeper, it doesn't matter what you are. They make a mattress for you. And every mattress they make is amazing. They are recommended by multiple leading chiropractors and doctors of sleep medicine as a go to solution for improving your sleep.

Nick (54:37)

And then every mattress in our house is a Helix mattress. And we love having guests because they wake up and go, what did I just sleep on? And I go, oh, that's an Helix mattress. Let me get one for you. My favorite thing in the world is to gift my friends and family a Helix mattress because I'm Saint Nick, you know? You know what I'm saying? If you want to have the best sleep of your life, make sure to go to helixsleep.com, answer a few questions about your sleeping preferences, and they will hook you up with a mattress that is made just for you. Recommended by multiple leading chiropractors and doctors of sleep medicine as a go to solution for improving your sleep. For early access to their Memorial Day sale, go to helixleep.com V I A L L for 27 off site wide, plus a free bedding bundle, sheet set and mattress protector included with any luxe or elite mattress order. This offer is exclusive for vilefile listeners. That's helixleep.com V I A L L for 27 off site wide, plus a free betting bundle which includes again, a sheet set and a mattress protector with any luxe or elite mattress order. Helixleep.com vi a l l well, as I get older and sadly I am, it's ever more important to take care of myself and my body. And it's so great to have Symbiotica by my side because they make doing that so much easier.

Harper (55:50)

Also, I really enjoy, like, romanticizing my health and my beauty and my nighttime routines, you know, like my skincare routine, all of that stuff. I really enjoy romanticizing. And with Symbiotica, they make these little packets that are so fun to just slurp up. I feel like I'm drinking a pouch, like I'm river, you know how she drinks her little pouches. That's what I feel like I'm doing when I take Symbiotica. Two of their amazing products that we love are their magnesium L theate and their liposomal glutathione. The benefit of the magnesium is it balances your mood. It calms your nervous system and improves your memory and focus. The benefit of the liposomal glutathione is it is an antioxidant. It's anti aging. It boosts your metabolism, it energizes you. And they're easy to take, and they're absolutely delicious. Go to symbiotica.com v I a l l to get 20 off plus free shipping. That's C Y M B I O-T-I-K-A.com v I a l l for 20 off plus free shipping.

Unknown (56:41)

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Nick (57:41)

How's it going?

Megan (57:42)

Hey, Nick. How are you? I'm good.

Nick (57:44)

What's your name?

Megan (57:44)

My name is Megan and I'm 38 years old.

Nick (57:47)

How can I help Megan?

Megan (57:48)

Well, I am in love with my best friend of about 17 years, and I need to figure out how to let this go. This is not working for me at all.

Nick (57:57)

Okay, well, why are you having a hard time letting it go?

Megan (58:00)

You know, I think that that is the biggest part that I'm struggling with. We met a long time ago. I've always been interested in him, and he has been vocal about the fact that he does not feel the same way. It wasn't a big deal or, you know, the longest time, I just kind of let it go. He had his relationships, I had mine, whatever. But he opened a business a couple of years ago, and I thought that it would be a great idea. To just push my way right in there. They weren't. They weren't hiring. They don't have any other employees. And I was just like, I'm gonna work here. And they eventually were just like, okay, so now I work there. And since that happened, our relationship has just become so much closer. So we see each other all the time. We talk all the time. Like, if. If it's slow at work, we could sit there for five hours and just be chatting.

Nick (59:02)

But nothing's changed on his end in terms of like, yeah, you're my friend, and I think you're cool, and I like talking to you, but. But I'm not looking for anything else.

Megan (59:10)

No, no, definitely not. And I'm not. I'm not delusional to that fact, but. And I feel like it's not even the point that he doesn't want to be with me. That's the issue. It's that I won't let it go. So he. He uses me a lot as, like, his emotional support.

Nick (59:32)

Why do you describe it as he uses you?

Megan (59:35)

Well, I guess I shouldn't. I mean, sometimes I do actually feel that way.

Nick (59:42)

I don't doubt that, but I try.

Megan (59:45)

To put up boundaries with him more than once. Like, what to be like, don't talk to me about, you know, girl. Girl problems that you're having. And I. I can be your friend and support you in other things, but I don't want our conversations to always focus on all of the girls that are surround you all the time. But then when I put up that boundary and he follows it, we don't talk probably at all.

Nick (60:13)

Well, when I was single and dating, or even now, I don't have a lot of girlfriends who I. I wouldn't want to, you know, like, that's why I had girlfriends and my girlfriends, I mean, friends that were women to talk about girl stuff, you know, like, talk about who I was dating.

Megan (60:31)

And, I mean, he has told me, he's like, you. I'm really sorry, but, like, you give good advice and you're a girl and you listen, so. Oh, that's why he's like, I know. I understand that it sucks, but.

Nick (60:41)

Yeah, I mean, I guess my point is you have to take. You know, listen, you've described to this friend for 17 years, right?

Megan (60:47)

Yeah.

Nick (60:47)

That's a long period of time. And you said, I want to get over this. Right. So, like, I, you know, immediately, you just. You clearly need some tough love here. Right? Like, because 17 years, you're just like. You're just not the Victim in any sense of the way when it comes to how he makes you feel. Because he has been pretty clear. More clear than, like, a lot of guys. Like, some guys would be like, oh, I just want to be friends with you. And then, like, you'll have a weak moment and you'll. You know, a lot of times these stories, you know, include, like, one night we got drunk and we hooked up, and things got even weirder, but now we're like, sounds like nothing like that's ever happened.

Megan (61:26)

Never.

Nick (61:27)

He has been steadfast in his communication and boundary when it comes to how he feels or doesn't feel about. You know, you admitted that, like, you kind of forced your way in to working for his company again under the expectations that, like, he was honest with you about how he felt about you. So you coming and say, hey, I'm going to work here is you saying, with your actions, I understand and respect your boundaries. I'm okay with how you feel about me, but I still want to be around you and work with you and for you. And then, you know, out of proximity. Because you guys work together. Yeah. I mean, you know, you built a relationship, and that relationship was, like, asking your advice. And you're just like, what? I like you, though, but you can't talk to me about that stuff, you know, and then he respects that, and then you get upset because now you don't have the friend that you like to talk to about so much, you know, and it's just like, you got to pick a. You know, you are torturing yourself. He is not using you. You are allowing yourself to feel used because you continue to put yourself in a vulnerable environment.

Megan (62:28)

Right. And so I, like, I'm not sure, should I. Do I remove myself from the environment?

Nick (62:34)

Well, how much do you need this job versus, like, what's your ability to get another job or a better job or a different job?

Megan (62:41)

I mean, I definitely could. A different job. It's not the most convenient job for me, but I do. I do enjoy it.

Nick (62:49)

So do you enjoy it because you get to be around him, or you enjoy the work and. Or do you enjoy the money?

Megan (62:54)

Honestly, all of it, I would say.

Nick (62:58)

All right, so other than not being able to work around him, how much. What else would you be losing if you got a different job?

Megan (63:04)

I guess I wouldn't necessarily be losing really much of any.

Nick (63:08)

Well, then maybe there's your answer. What I'm hearing is, I'm wet, I want to get dry, but I don't want to get out of the pool.

Megan (63:15)

Yes. And I just. Maybe I can't find the ladder. I don't. I understand that. In some aspects, I feel like I'm being kind of stubborn about it because for some reason in my brain, I keep thinking that if I do this or if I. And he's not asking me to do.

Nick (63:35)

These things, in 17 years, it hasn't clicked. He's not gonna like you, not this way. You just gotta move on. Just doesn't feel that way about you. It's okay.

Megan (63:47)

And I guess I just wonder if keeping the friendship.

Nick (63:52)

You're not friends. You're not friends. You are a person who is, for 17 years, has convinced herself of pretending to be this guy's friend just so you can be around him in the hopes that he would one day wake up and magically see you differently. But you've never been friends, not in the way that you've been friends with some of your other actual friends. Like the way you're friends with people you are not romantically interested in and not hoping for something different. It's a completely different relationship. Right?

Megan (64:20)

Yes, I guess that is very true. I guess we don't really move in a way that I would with any of my other friends, whether they're male or female, I guess.

Nick (64:31)

Correct. Yeah. So he's not your friend.

Megan (64:33)

I guess that. That one's a little hard to swallow.

Nick (64:37)

Yeah. Listen, it's a very direct, tough way of describing your relationship. And, you know, I am being direct and tough for a reason. And, you know, you're waiting for something, and that's your problem. You're waiting to get over it or you're waiting for him to change. And the only way that something's going to change is you decide to do something rather than waiting for something to happen. And your only option for deciding to do something is to just make a decision and stop acting like this is your friend who just doesn't see you. You know, that is going to. But you know, turn into something. You have. Have always made exceptions for this guy in this relationship because you've wanted something else from him.

Megan (65:16)

So then I guess I'm not really his friend either.

Nick (65:18)

I mean, yeah, you've both clearly been friends to each other. There's probably a lot of respect. He would probably go out of his way for you because he probably cares about you as a person and vice versa. But there is a big asterisk in this relationship because of the thing that you want that he doesn't want to give you. And, yeah, it makes a lot of. I'm sure your actions less sincere because you have an alternative motive.

Megan (65:44)

Right? Oh, that sucks. I mean, I did want to talk to you for this specific reason. If I talk to my friends about it, you know, they're very gentle with me about it. Even though they all also agree that I need to just get out of there and forget about it.

Nick (66:04)

I mean, it's been 17 years. He, he, he, he is never coming around.

Megan (66:07)

Right. I guess the sooner that I actually let that sink in, the better. When I had originally written in, it was kind of like there was, there was a lot of explosions going on in, in the relationship. And now it's kind of like settled down to where.

Nick (66:26)

Why explosions? Like you would get fed up with him not liking you?

Megan (66:30)

No. There we ended up having a bit of an argument because there was a situation where I was kind of stranded somewhere and I was hoping that he would like let me chill on his house for a little while or something. Before I could go home. He suggested that I contact one of our customers where we work and go stay with them instead. So I did, but I was like, this is so weird. Why am I going to stay at straight with strangers when you are right there?

Nick (67:07)

Because he's not your friend. He knows you like him and he doesn't want to cross that boundary.

Megan (67:12)

Right? Yeah, well, he, he, he explained to me that pretty much and the conversation just kind of went on from there and he ended up up telling me that he feels like I have essentially had like a force field around him for the last 17 years and that he feels like that makes it so like I push other people away from him and that we could never be together, that we would only last three days. Like it was a pretty intense blow up. So after that I did try to like change my thinking and be like, okay, this is obvious. Not working. So then we had a conversation and I told him that I think that we should like take a little break from like talking all the time and hanging out. And now since we did that, now we just like don't talk or hang out at all. And I guess that that is good. It is helping.

Nick (68:20)

Listen for you, this is going to feel like a breakup.

Megan (68:23)

Yeah, it does. It really.

Nick (68:25)

It's understandable. It doesn't for him.

Megan (68:27)

No, no.

Nick (68:28)

You know, and again, like you, you know, he said a lot of honest things and he pro. He has a right to be frustrated because you've done more manipulating in this relationship than he ever has. He's been very clear about his feelings and you've had a Very hard time accepting that. So much so that you decided to work for him without even offering a job.

Megan (68:46)

Yeah, I didn't really plan that out very well.

Nick (68:51)

Listen, I'm not, you know, it is what it is, but if you' really sincere about getting over this and moving on with your life and just accepting that this guy doesn't want to date you, then you need to do just that and you need to just move on and get a different job and stop pretending that this guy's your friend, he's not your friend, and you got to stop wasting your and his energy by getting mad at him for not wanting you to sleep at his house.

Megan (69:14)

I mean, I can definitely see where, you know where and why he would put that boundary up, but at the time, it just felt like a lot of things coming at once were maybe.

Nick (69:28)

I'm sure it was. I'm sure he has tried to be nice and not be a jerk and have to tell you every day, I don't want to date you. But, like, I think every once in a while you get a little too comfortable and you get a little too hopeful when, like, you feel like he's opening up to you. And then you read that as maybe some kind of sign. And then. And then maybe you do some things you don't even realize you're doing it because you like him and you don't want other women to date him and you don't want him to look anywhere else, and you do want him to look at you a certain way, and you project that onto him. And it probably gets a little frustrating for him. And he probably. And you've probably made him feel uncomfortable at times in a way where he didn't want to have to suggest you get a. You know, he didn't want to have to reject you. He's already done that multiple times. But, and I say this with love, you won't go away.

Megan (70:18)

I mean, you're not wrong.

Nick (70:21)

So, you know, it's.

Megan (70:23)

So just go away.

Nick (70:24)

Yeah. I mean, accept reality. Accept his answer, and stop pretending you're his friend and stop pretending you're just friends, because you're definitely not just friends. You clearly can be friendly with each other, and clearly there's some respect mutually between the two of you. But you like him and he doesn't like you, and you just need to accept that and move on and stop trying to have your cake get ate it, too. And stop torturing yourself by spending all this time with a man that you like who doesn't like you.

Megan (70:56)

Yeah. Because I Feel like in the long run, it really has, like, prohibited me from being in, you know.

Nick (71:03)

Oh my God. Yeah. You have no idea. You have no idea how much this has cost to do you so much.

Megan (71:08)

I mean, even the last couple of guys that I have dated would tell me, like, why are you even here with me?

Nick (71:15)

Why don't you go be with this again? I don't think you can even comprehend how much this has costed you. Experiences, people interactions, friends. You've wasted so much time and energy on someone who never asked you to waste it and you just, you know, gave it away.

Megan (71:31)

I guess that's a very valuable thing that I will take away from this, that he didn't ask me to do it, but I'm. I'm doing it to myself.

Nick (71:41)

Yeah. I wish we all saw our time and energy as this tangible thing like money. And I wish we could, like, look at the energy we have. Like we. The way we could look at our bank accounts. And I wish we could have the ability to see how much energy it would cost us to do any one thing or action so that we could decide, oh, if I spend energy here, then I won't have the ability to put energy there. And I think if we had the ability to do that, we would stop wasting a lot of our time and energy. But we don't. And we take it for granted constantly. And you've taken it for granted for 17 years. And it's. It's incomprehensible, the energy you've wasted.

Megan (72:18)

And it definitely is wasted. It has been wasted the entire time.

Nick (72:23)

It's the equivalent of like, just. You're just paying this person money that they didn't literally ask for, but they don't even want it. But you're just like, I'm still gonna give it to you. It's like you show up on his front door and left an envelope full of cash every day for 17 years. And it blew away in the wind because you left it on his front porch and he didn't take it because he didn't want it. So it got lost somewhere else and now that's all gone and you can never get it back.

Megan (72:50)

I mean, when you put it that way, I should be pretty frustrated with. For being in this for so long.

Nick (72:58)

The solution to wasting your time and energy isn't to pine over how much time and energy you've wasted. It's just. Just fucking stop and get out of the pool so you can get dry. Quit the job.

Megan (73:09)

Like, I feel like if I. But I think that this is also, you know, just going back to the whole issue is like, I've considered quitting multiple times, but then I'm like, well, I don't want to disappoint him and I don't want to put.

Nick (73:21)

He doesn't care. He doesn't care. He'll be thrilled. He'll be thrilled.

Megan (73:25)

I mean, I feel like I am. I am valuable.

Nick (73:28)

I'm not saying you're not. I'm not saying you're not. But like this, like, you think he would be thrilled? I just think, you know, I'm sure he'll miss part of you, but, like, I'm just. Again, like, it's just you're probably a lot, you know, and you're probably. It's just like I am. You know, the cost of having him work for you isn't just what he pays you. It's just like, you're just a lot, you know?

Megan (73:52)

You're not the first person that's told me that, Nick.

Nick (73:55)

I don't even. I'm just basing.

Megan (73:57)

You don't even know me.

Nick (73:58)

I don't even know you.

Megan (73:59)

You don't even know me.

Nick (74:00)

But if you can be obsessed with a guy for 717 years and. And force your way into work for him and not take a hint, then clearly you are a lot. And. And those types of people are just a lot. And, you know, you're still. You still have a lot of life, still young. You still got a lot going for you. Just stop doing this.

Megan (74:14)

I'm gonna. I'm gonna hear you saying that in my head over and over.

Nick (74:18)

You get to listen. You get. In a few weeks, you get to listen to it back, too, you know?

Megan (74:22)

Oh, my God, I'm dreading that.

Nick (74:24)

You should listen to it. You just, you know, you gotta quit the job, let it go, move on. Like, I can tell you just. It just is not registering with you because you're. Now you're like, well, he might let him down. He'll live. He'll be fine. And if he really needs you that bad, he can pay you double, you know, if you're that valuable, you know? Yeah.

Megan (74:42)

I mean, it is. It is sinking in. I definitely hear it. I obviously am just having trouble applying it, but I guess I just have to. I just have to do it and stop. Stop telling myself that there's a hundred reasons not to when there's one good reason. Stop. And that is you. Just save myself from doing this for another 17 years.

Nick (75:04)

Yeah, but again, I wish you could quantify what you're giving up. And it's too bad, you know, you can't, because it's impossible. And you're so used to doing this that, like, I mean, you could have seen the world. You know, you could have. Who knows? You could have gone to college. You could have learned a new language. You could have built a business. You know, like, if you would have taken all that energy you invested in him, invested in yourself, who knows where you'd be right now?

Megan (75:29)

I think that I've had that problem my whole life, just in general, where I'm investing everywhere else.

Nick (75:36)

Well, everywhere else, maybe that. Have you gotten therapy? Maybe it's something you could explore.

Megan (75:42)

I certainly have had a lot of therapy. It doesn't seem to be working.

Nick (75:47)

Is it always the same therapist? I don't know. Like, have you talked about this with your therapist?

Megan (75:51)

Not. Not this situation as it is right now? Because, I mean, I feel like I have. I've talked everyone to death about it, you know, just in general, over time.

Nick (76:03)

Betty, have you talked to your therap. A therapist about him?

Megan (76:07)

Not recently.

Nick (76:08)

When did you, like, I mean, over.

Megan (76:10)

The course of time as things have come up, like, maybe, I don't know, when I started working there or.

Nick (76:16)

How long ago was that?

Megan (76:17)

About two and a half years ago.

Nick (76:20)

Well, I mean, listen, like, you're only gonna get out of therapy what you're willing to discover. You know, it's like if you don't show up with a plan, it's like.

Megan (76:27)

You know, I think I'm realizing that I don't. I. I think maybe I just don't want to. So, like, I guess I have to change my mindset to, like. No, this is something that you have to do, and you need to do whether you want to do it or not.

Nick (76:41)

Yeah, but if I, you know, for you, you got to stop looking at, like, you have to give up something, and you got to start looking at, like, what you could be gaining from this.

Megan (76:47)

I guess that might make it a little bit easier to handle.

Nick (76:50)

You also have to be willing to want to gain some from it. You have to be willing to, like, you know, if we're using the envelope analogy, whatever, if you're. If you're going to stop dropping envelopes of cash on his front door, but just, like, start just throwing it out your window. What's the difference? But I want to see you take that envelope of cash and invest in yourself or, you know. You know what I'm saying? You actually do something with it that benefits you. But, yeah, it's going to take a while to reprogram your brain. You know, quitting the job is just the first step, but, like, you just have to, like, move on from that guy. Block him. He won't care. He'll be glad.

Megan (77:24)

Yeah, I feel like at this point, it's more of a habit than anything else.

Nick (77:29)

You just won't go away. And you're there and you're. He's just like, all right, well, I'm gonna talk. I'm not gonna be a dick to her. And it's like, I mean, he.

Megan (77:35)

He tells me that I'm his best friend.

Nick (77:37)

Yeah. I mean, you've done a lot of probably nice things for him. I'm sure at times he's said and done things that have maybe slightly confusing or maybe he shouldn't have said some things given the context of your relationship. But, like, you clearly are stubborn, persistent, and can't take a hint. And he's just made it. He's made the most of a situation where you just, like, won't go away.

Megan (77:57)

Oh, God, now I feel like I'm. I'm a psycho.

Nick (78:01)

There's a little bit of psycho behavior in what you're doing, for sure.

Megan (78:03)

Oh, no. Oh, God.

Nick (78:06)

There's still time, you know, there's still hope. Let's not dwell on what you've done wrong. Let's try to focus on. On the future. But it is good for you to, like, you need to wake up. And the fact that you can be like, yeah, I've only worked for him for two and a half years and had that be such a small part of this whole story is crazy. But I mean, again, you're still young enough to, like, look back on this period of your life and, you know, maybe a little frustrated with yourself, but like, if nothing else, just be glad that you're no longer that person and, and use that as like a blueprint to remind yourself to not waste any more time because you've wasted so much. You know, maybe this is a long term blessing, I don't know. But it really comes down to how you want to apply it and expect more from yourself.

Megan (78:49)

You know, I think I definitely. I definitely needed the tough love. That is exactly what I needed to hear from you for, for sure. Because, I mean, I. I know these things in my head, but it's different when somebody who is not involved at all can see it in a matter of 20 minutes.

Nick (79:10)

Well, yeah, 17 years is a big number.

Megan (79:14)

It is. Even two and a half would be too big, correct?

Nick (79:17)

Yeah. What are you gonna do?

Megan (79:19)

Like I feel like I really need to quit working there. Saying for 100% that I'm going to is really difficult.

Nick (79:31)

Well, start looking for a job. Get off the phone. Start looking for a job right now. I want your energy to go into looking for another job.

Megan (79:39)

And I don't even necessarily need the job. It's like, it's just a, this is.

Nick (79:44)

A part time job.

Megan (79:45)

Yeah, it's not my, any of my main jobs.

Nick (79:47)

So you don't even need to replace his job. This is just something.

Megan (79:50)

Not really.

Nick (79:51)

Jesus Christ.

Megan (79:53)

I mean it's always nice to have money, you know, I always need money. But it's not like if I woke up tomorrow and this job was not there.

Nick (80:03)

Go volunteer. I don't know, go, go join a club just, or get another part time job that you have fun doing and.

Megan (80:10)

It'S not even close to me. I have to travel like an hour away to get there.

Nick (80:13)

That's psychotic. Pathetic.

Megan (80:15)

It's, it's, it's a little crazy.

Nick (80:17)

It's a little pathetic.

Megan (80:18)

It's a little nuts.

Nick (80:20)

Well, stop being nuts. You're not crazy. You know, you're just stuck. You're, you're stuck in a big time way. And if I were you, I would shift your energy to like do anything you can to get unstuck. I would get back into therapy and I wouldn't talk about him as much but like I would acknowledge and say, hey, I've, this is a situation I recently got out of. It's been a real struggle, struggle for me. I'd like to unpack why I've had such a hard time accepting a man who's been pretty clear and honest and direct with me the whole time. And I'd love to know why. I, I don't invest in myself as much as I invest in other people. And I'd love to unpack that. And my goal of, of sitting down with you is to really try to like get better at investing in myself and get out of life what I want out of life. And I don't know what your long term goals are, relationship goals, if you want to settle down and meet someone. You know, I would talk about like eventually I want to meet someone, but I want to be in the right place. I want to have things in my life I'm proud of outside of a man.

Megan (81:17)

Yeah, that's been a struggle for a long time.

Nick (81:21)

Well, yeah, well, I don't imagine. But it's even harder when you don't have the energy to do it because your energy has Been so focused on something else.

Megan (81:29)

Yeah, I definitely don't. I'm very aware that I don't invest nearly as much into myself as I do in trying to fix everything else around me instead.

Nick (81:43)

That's just. Yeah. My guess, My very unprofessional guess, is that you're just afraid of what that will discover, and you don't want to unpack it. You're just afraid of what that means, and you're afraid of the challenge. It's like using the same pool analogy. It's like, you know, the pool's cold. You don't want to jump in. You're just standing on the ledge, and it's just easier to motivate other people to jump in the pool who, like, after they jump in, they're like, actually, it's not that bad.

Megan (82:08)

Yeah. I think that that's a. That's a good analogy. The pool is really working for us here.

Nick (82:13)

Yeah. So listen, like, just want more for yourself, you know, but you gotta. You gotta at least get to a point where you're like, I don't know how to get there, but I do know I need help, and I need to stop doing this and start there. Quit the job. Find a therapist. Be patient. Make sure you find the right therapist. But go in there with a purpose and what you want to work on and, you know, the friends that you do have, ask them to hold you accountable to, like, you know, hey, I want to work on myself. I really want to focus on, take care of myself and, you know, try to do that.

Megan (82:44)

I think that they would all appreciate that.

Nick (82:46)

Yeah. Start. It starts by letting this guy go.

Megan (82:49)

I mean, every. Everybody tells me that that's what I need to do. I'm being stubborn by taking my time.

Nick (82:56)

On making that decision. You're only wasting more time. I was. You know, you wasted enough. You're not crazy. You just have some things you want to work on. You just have to have the guts to work on them.

Megan (83:06)

Yeah. Getting the guts to work on them, I think is the tricky part. I guess I am probably a little scared about what I would find out about myself.

Nick (83:15)

That you're imperfect. You know, that's all you're gonna. You know, big picture. That's all you're gonna discover. But you also might discover what you're capable of and what you've been underappreciating about yourself and how you've been taking yourself for granted. And you might discover a better life. The only negative you're going to unpack is just to acknowledge what you already know is that you're not perfect. I mean, I've called you delusional. I've called you pathetic. Not you. But how you're being a lot of names today, you know, you're not perfect. No one is. So, like, it's not going to be that bad. There's a lot to gain from wanting to change some things in your life.

Megan (83:51)

Yeah. Because facing my self worth over whether men want me or not has not been working out at all.

Nick (83:59)

Correct. You only need one and he ain't it.

Megan (84:01)

No.

Nick (84:02)

And no one's gonna love you the way you want to be loved because you're just not. You know, not to sound like. I know it sounds like almost like a something you put on a wall, but you gotta love yourself before anyone can love you. You know, it's. And you don't. You do not love yourself the way you want to be loved. So it's just like you gotta start doing that, get your together.

Megan (84:16)

I definitely need to get my together.

Nick (84:18)

You can do it.

Megan (84:19)

I'm hoping that this will be a good push to begin.

Nick (84:25)

All right, good luck. Keep us posted. I'd love a progress report.

Megan (84:29)

You know, I just might, you know, do a good job on this. Just so that you can tell me I'm not pathetic.

Nick (84:39)

You're not pathetic, but you are. Your actions are pathetic right now.

Megan (84:43)

Yes, they are. I agree. I'm gonna try to make myself proud in this situation here.

Nick (84:47)

Good. That's a good start.

Megan (84:48)

Thank you for the tough love. That's exactly, exactly what I needed. I appreciate it.

Nick (84:53)

Anytime. Just. You have a lot left. Stop wasting it.

Megan (84:57)

Thank you.

Nick (84:58)

All right.

Megan (84:58)

All right. Thank you.

Nick (84:59)

Take care.

Megan (85:10)

Foreign.

Nick (85:15)

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