E936 - Jessi & Mikayla, Mormon Wives, Sneaky Links w/ Chloe Veitch, Summer House & More Sonja Morgan News

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Viall Files - Episode E936

Release Date: May 20, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode E936 of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall, alongside co-hosts Natalie Joy and the Household, delves deep into the latest happenings in reality television, relationships, and pop culture. This episode is packed with heated discussions, updates on popular reality shows, and exclusive interviews, ensuring listeners are thoroughly engaged from start to finish.

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Reality Recap: Mom Talk Dynamics

The episode kicks off with a lively discussion about the ongoing drama within the "Mom Talk" segment. Nick introduces Jesse and Mikayla, highlighting their significant impact on the show's dynamics.

• Nick Viall [01:35]: "The ladies of Mom Talk continue to make their presence felt on The Viall Files day. We have Jesse and Michaela. Boy, do they serve these bitches."

Mikayla chimes in, emphasizing the constant flow of drama and gossip:

• Mikayla [01:35]: "Don't hold back. Yeah, I mean they just cannot help but just like word vomit. All tea constantly."

The conversation shifts to recent controversies, including allegations against Michaela and her role in Season One's shocking developments.

• Jesse [05:04]: "We are very much out of it, but yeah, it was just real-life tension spilling over into the show."

---

Marciano's Controversial Video

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing Marciano's recent video and his tarnished reputation within the reality TV community.

• Nick Viall [02:50]: "I see a lot of love from our girl Michaela."

However, sentiments about Marciano remain largely negative:

• Miranda [02:56]: "Did you see Marciano's video that he posted?"
• Nick Viall [03:10]: "He seems to be kind of a loser. A little bit of gross."

Further criticism is directed at his behavior on shows like Vanderpump Villa:

• Whitney [04:32]: "He's cringy on Vanderpump Villa. It was kind of like this guy."

---

Sonja Morgan's Restaurant Incident

The hosts update listeners on Sonja Morgan's recent troubles involving a trespass warning at a Florida restaurant.

• Nick Viall [15:01]: "She's having some issues with the restaurateurs."

Details emerge about the misunderstanding surrounding her attempt to help an elderly patron:

• Mikayla [16:21]: "She's trying to save a life."

Despite her good intentions, Sonja faces backlash and official warnings:

• Layla [17:03]: "Very Florida restaurant issues."

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Karen Reed's Legal Case Update

The podcast touches upon the ongoing legal saga of Karen Reed, discussing new evidence and the prosecution's mishandling of the case.

• Nick Viall [07:08]: "Prosecution is a mess."

Mikayla provides insights into Brian Higgins' questionable behavior the night of the incident:

• Mikayla [08:09]: "He went back to the police station with a duffel bag and did some sketchy stuff."

The hosts express skepticism about Karen's innocence, citing the prosecution's incompetence:

• Nick Viall [09:48]: "I think she'll be acquitted because the prosecution isn't doing their job."

---

Sneaky Links with Chloe Veitch

A highlight of the episode is the exclusive interview with Chloe Veitch, who discusses her new Netflix show, Sneaky Links. The show explores clandestine relationships, adding another layer of intrigue to the reality TV landscape.

• Chloe Veitch [28:00]: "The definition of a sneaky link is when you don't want anyone to know you're in a relationship with someone."
• Demi Burnett [29:38]: "It's so easy to fall into something like that."

Chloe elaborates on the challenges of filming and the show's unique premise, offering listeners a sneak peek into the production and her role as host.

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Summer House Drama: Lexi and Jesse

The discussion shifts to the latest season of Summer House, focusing on the tumultuous relationship between Lexi and Jesse. Conflicts arise from Jesse's inability to move past old relationships and Lexi's struggle with her ex, Carl.

• Layla [54:35]: "Lexi carried this season with all the drama with Sierra and Jesse."
• Nick Viall [56:21]: "He'll never change."

The hosts debate Jesse's motives and his continuous antics that stir up trouble, questioning his sincerity and commitment.

• Whitney [56:12]: "She's pregnant with somebody else's baby and living with her ex."

---

Secret Lives of Mormon Wives: Exclusive Interview

One of the most compelling segments of the episode is the in-depth interview with Jesse and Michaela from Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. They discuss internal conflicts, particularly their fallout with Jen and Demi, stemming from contract negotiations and personal disagreements.

• Macy [84:26]: "Demi threw me under the bus because I didn't fight for more money."
• Jesse [93:11]: "She was saying that she had no morals, no values."

Macy reflects on the challenges of maintaining friendships amidst the pressures of reality TV:

• Macy [94:10]: "I'm just telling our story to help conversations around these issues."

The conversation highlights the toxic environment fostered by manipulative behaviors and the struggles of navigating professional relationships within the show.

• Jesse [96:07]: "I'm trying to tread very lightly because we're being forced against our will to hang out with these people."

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Group Dynamics and Fallout

The hosts explore the complex relationships within the group, emphasizing the lasting impact of betrayals and the difficulty of rebuilding trust.

• Macy [104:37]: "Demi was on a mission to make Jen seem like a liar."

The interviewees express their disillusionment with certain members, particularly focusing on Demi's manipulative tactics and Jen's alleged dishonesty.

• Jesse [105:46]: "It's so hard because we're filming, and it's the same thing. Everyone's asking why I'm so passionate, but she's not changing."

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Closing Remarks

Nick Viall wraps up the episode by commending the guests and teasing future content, inviting listeners to stay tuned for more in-depth discussions and interviews.

• Nick Viall [116:05]: "Thank you for coming by. Good luck. Hopefully, season three."

Listeners are encouraged to subscribe and stay engaged with upcoming episodes that promise more drama, insights, and exclusive content from the reality TV world.

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Notable Quotes

• Mikayla [16:21]: "She's trying to save a life."
• Jesse [84:35]: "She was trying to discredit her through this avenue."
• Macy [94:29]: "I'm proud for him trying to work on things."
• Nick Viall [47:12]: "Timelines are useless. A guy will wait six months or two days, it doesn't matter."

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Conclusion

Episode E936 of The Viall Files offers a comprehensive look into the intricate web of relationships and dramas within popular reality TV shows. From behind-the-scenes conflicts to exclusive interviews that shed light on personal struggles, this episode provides listeners with an engaging and insightful experience into the often tumultuous world of reality television.

Transcript

[Nick Viall]

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[Demi Burnett]

You're crazy.

[Nick Viall]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another wild and wacky episode of the Vile Files reality recap edition. Boy, do we have a banger of a week lined up for you guys. What? What's going on, Wildebaki? I just like to make things up. Boy, do we have a jam packed episode for you. The ladies of mom talk continue to make their presence felt on the Vile Files day. We have Jesse and Michaela. Boy, do they serve these bitches.

[Mikayla]

Don't hold back. Yeah, I mean they just cannot help but just like word vomit. All tea constantly.

[Whitney]

Even this show. Watching the show, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do make my little batches. I finished the whole thing.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Anyways, they are here. They have a lot to say. I, I, I'm honestly shocked about the, the claim that it was Michaela. Michaela. Jesse confirmed it about how an idea that Demi had for the end of season one that was just a shocking.

[Layla]

Yeah, yeah, she's producing.

[Nick Viall]

She's, I mean there's producing and then there's craziness. There's producing. Yeah, there's. Fully committed to the bit.

[Layla]

Yeah, I, I'm always pro somebody who's fully committed to the bit. So I know there's a lot to say going around, but in this single case scenario, I think the idea is definitely something worth pitching.

[Nick Viall]

But there unfortunately are layers to the committing to this bit. There are and there's.

[Layla]

I don't know if I approve of all the levels of pre production that went into that bit, what she committed to, but.

[Nick Viall]

I don't even know if we're allowed to laugh. What is the Internet saying over the weekend? Are they. What's. Who are we? Are we. Are they starting to take sides?

[Mikayla]

A lot of people are ranking the vibes. I've seen that.

[Nick Viall]

I see a lot of love from our girl Michaela.

[Mikayla]

Yes. Michaela's always one or two.

[Layla]

A star is born for sure.

[Nick Viall]

She really found her voice.

[Miranda]

Did you see Marciano's video that he posted?

[Nick Viall]

I did not. I, I, I. There obviously is a lot of speculation about his involvement in this franchise. I think what we all agree. And he seems to be kind of a loser. A little bit of gross.

[Miranda]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

I mean, I think every wife has had a negative opinion of him. Regardless of what Demi or Jesse or any of, like, the allegations or claims against him, they're all just like, yeah, he kind of sucks.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. But anyways, what was his video?

[Miranda]

Well, he posted a video, and he was at Swig and he was ranking the drinks that the girls made, and he, he said, why not try some of these girls? I mean, some of these girls drinks. Like, he was. He was basically, like, saying how he feels about them through their drinks. So when he tried Jesse's drink, he said, definitely something that I'm used to and that I like if I had another chance or opportunity to continue drinking this. And then he says, I could see myself drinking this in the future. He's talking about Jesse's Swig drink, but kind of talking about her. And then when he was drinking Demi's drink, he bleeps her name first of all in the video. And then he says no, instantly regretting it. Wish I never took a sip of this one. And then he spits it out and does like a.

[Layla]

He sucks.

[Nick Viall]

He does suck.

[Miranda]

I think he does. He's like, he's just cringy. I was like, what is this?

[Mikayla]

I mean, he clearly is trying to get clout and look at us giving it to him. So it is working in his favor whether people like him or not.

[Whitney]

And he's cringy on Vanderpump Villa. And it was kind of like this guy. And then to have the season two storyline, I'm like, this guy.

[Demi Burnett]

We're talking about this guy.

[Nick Viall]

We only talked about Vanderpump Villa as it relates to Mormon housewives. Did anything else go on? I mean, that season has come out. It's been out.

[Mikayla]

It's come and gone. I believe in my.

[Nick Viall]

Do they? Other than Mormon wives.

[Whitney]

I mean, I did, but that's just because my Queen Stassi was back on reality. Television. So I very much objectively.

[Nick Viall]

How did you. I mean, it's been two seasons.

[Whitney]

It's been two seasons.

[Nick Viall]

No one gives a shit.

[Whitney]

I didn't finish it.

[Taylor]

I didn't like it.

[Whitney]

I haven't seen the season finale. I don't know who got the $30,000.

[Nick Viall]

Sarah can watch and finish just about anything. I don't know what that says about Larry Villa if you can't get through it.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah.

[Whitney]

I'm on like, episode eight, nine.

[Layla]

What if there were human remains that were found close to Vanderpumpillo?

[Nick Viall]

Would we.

[Mikayla]

That might watch. Poor Taylor Swift. Poor Taylor Swift. She wakes up on a sunny Tuesday morning. When did this come out?

[Nick Viall]

She constantly catches grenades and shrapnel from.

[Mikayla]

I mean, they just. They just love to throw her name. Yeah. They just add it in the mix. It's like there. There was. What's the story? Human remains were found just, like, near her house less than a mile.

[Layla]

Less than a mile away from where she lives.

[Mikayla]

Like, we didn't need to include her name.

[Nick Viall]

I put a lot of people.

[Whitney]

A lot of other people live there.

[Mikayla]

Yeah, right.

[Nick Viall]

Less than a mile.

[Layla]

It's crazy.

[Mikayla]

But, you know, I bet there was someone else who lived closer than Taylor Swift.

[Whitney]

It was actually in their backyard.

[Miranda]

Probably somebody who lives there in that Perry.

[Layla]

I'm just kidding. I feel like she's gonna write a banger song about it, though.

[Whitney]

Taylor.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, over my dead body.

[Layla]

They found the bodies near my house, but I was thinking about was your body against my body?

[Mikayla]

And now someone mute her, cut her mind.

[Layla]

I don't know. I think it'd be a banger.

[Nick Viall]

Taylor's constantly catching shrapnel, even from Justin Baldoni's lawyer, who last week tried to make some claim that according to a trusted source, he heard a rumor that allegedly Blake threatened Taylor with releasing all of these public text messages. A judge has stricken that down.

[Layla]

Stricken.

[Nick Viall]

And basically said, stop your shenanigans and tomfoolery when it comes to this case. And I think even threaten sanctions against the judge. And then all the Justin sycophants and super fans are like, oh, well, the lawyer, he signed a sworn affidavit, so he must be telling the truth. Well, all he's telling the sworn affidavit that there is a. A trusted sort like that he has a source that he thinks he can trust, and someone's willing to say this. That's all he's saying. So that could be literally anyone. It could be his dog. His dog could be the one being like, he's like.

[Mikayla]

He's my best friend.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, I heard that Taylor Swift and Blake Lively, like, she was gonna. Like, that's all it is. It's just like a. It's the source of a rumor.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

I mean, didn't Blake's team also come out and be like, that's just like, not true.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

But then more importantly, because, like, obviously Blake's team.

[Mikayla]

Back and forth.

[Nick Viall]

Blake team's gonna. Blake's team. But, like, the judge is like, stop this shit out. He. He's finally seems to be putting a stop to it. But not after all the ridiculous headlines of that made it seem like it was a fact.

[Whitney]

Right. The damage is done now.

[Nick Viall]

The damage.

[Mikayla]

Yeah, Listen, they get what they want real quick. That team, they work hard and they.

[Whitney]

Work fast, and I'll take the slap on the wrist. I'm so sorry, judge.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, they continue to try to bully and. And win this case in the court of public opinion. Anything new with Karen Reed going on? Speaking of the case in public opinion, Let me see.

[Mikayla]

I honestly have not had a moment to keep up, which is really hurtful for my soul. But what I do know that happened is that Brian Higgins, who was like, texting with Karen Reed, had a little something. Something going on.

[Nick Viall]

Well, he never texting Brian Higgins.

[Mikayla]

Well, they both were. They were texting each other. He was responding. So she wasn't texting herself. He was definitely responding to her. So, yeah, was texting her. And the night of the murder, y. The night that John o' Keefe died, he didn't tell any police or anyone else that he went back to work at, like, 2 in the morning. He went back to the police station with a duffel bag, did some things.

[Nick Viall]

Oh.

[Mikayla]

Didn't tell anyone. He did those things. When they asked. When he. The next time he went to work, he was like, oh, like Monday morning, dude. Like, just, like. Just like normal work day. And, like, he had, like, done some sketchy stuff in the police station.

[Nick Viall]

Like, what?

[Mikayla]

And he didn't tell anyone. That's just like, the. The. The last thing that's sticking in my mind from what I've seen on Tick Tock.

[Nick Viall]

Yes, of course.

[Mikayla]

But that was like, the last, like, stuff I paid attention to. Still ongoing.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. I think she'll be acquitted. I think I. Every time I text Emily Baker, unofficial legal correspondent, who, you know, I really respect very much tries to be the legal correspondent that she is and stick to the facts, not the opinions. But I'm always like, first. When I was made aware of the case by my dear wife. I was like, oh, my God, Karen Reen is innocent. I'm texting this to Emily and Emily always responds back with a non opinion, but also something about the case. But then I text Emily a couple days later and be like, I think she's guilty now, but I think she's gonna get off. And her response was simply, prosecution is a mess. Which I believe is kind of her agreeing with me that, like, she might get acquitted just because the prosecution doesn't seem to be doing their job appropriately.

[Mikayla]

The prosecution is definitely a mess for sure. We also tried to watch Tangled this past weekend.

[Nick Viall]

Funny.

[Mikayla]

With river and Nick. The whole time was just like, cut. Her hair is probably so gross. Like, it just. It's on the ground. It's probably really heavy. It's just like, imagine how nasty it is.

[Nick Viall]

The live action of Tangled is disgusting. Imagine that. Just like.

[Layla]

But it's magic.

[Nick Viall]

Years of. Is it though?

[Mikayla]

He's like, have you seen the washing with Tangles?

[Nick Viall]

Could you imagine? Just. It would be like a mop.

[Mikayla]

This is Nick while me and river are trying to enjoy a Tangled. He's like, God, it's probably just really dirty. Like, look how much it's dragging. Well, first off, it's out the. It's out the tower. It's pulling up her mom. It's wrapped around the shoes. Yeah, her mom's shoe. And God knows where her shoes have been.

[Nick Viall]

I didn't really understand the plot of Tangles.

[Layla]

Well, first, it's a cartoon, so you.

[Miranda]

Were a little distracted.

[Nick Viall]

First of all, why aren't we calling it Rapunzel? Because it's just.

[Mikayla]

Because her hair is really tangly.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Whitney]

It's a tangled web of an adventure.

[Layla]

I don't know. I feel like you're disrespecting Mandy more by saying this.

[Whitney]

You watch the.

[Nick Viall]

That's the plot of the.

[Mikayla]

Exactly. He was too focused on the hair being dirty that he didn't understand that the flower was like.

[Whitney]

She was.

[Layla]

She was like gonna die. And then they gave her the flower. But then if she, like, cut her hair, then she wouldn't have the magic anymore and no one knew what would happen to her, which is why mother.

[Whitney]

Got kidnapped her and keeps her in the tower.

[Mikayla]

Yeah.

[Whitney]

That lady is not that Mother Knows Best song. It's so good drama.

[Layla]

God, I love Mandy more.

[Mikayla]

She's like, closing all the curtains like, Mother Knows Best.

[Nick Viall]

It's a funny show. It's a funny.

[Layla]

It's a funny show.

[Macy]

Did river like, funny show.

[Mikayla]

You know, it's definitely more for the two of us. She's like, not paying attention.

[Nick Viall]

What?

[Whitney]

Too much going on.

[Nick Viall]

Try the Hunchback of Notre Dame. That really, it's really sad.

[Layla]

I think if they're going to make any live action remake, I would say do the Hunchback of Notre Dame. Make it a better movie.

[Mikayla]

I also tried to show her Emperor's new groove. Not interested in that one either. And then while I'm watching it back, I'm like, you know, it is kind of slow. Like we do need, like river needs the birds and the animals and the.

[Macy]

Songs or the lava grunt.

[Mikayla]

Like we have to narrate when we're watching with River. Like, oh, my God, the squirrels. Wait, look at the birds. Ka ka. Like, we have to like, keep her interested or she is in the other room.

[Whitney]

Llamas not doing it for me.

[Mikayla]

No, Llamas were not doing it for me.

[Layla]

Oh, my God. Emperor's new group rocks so hard.

[Miranda]

Speaking of moms and daughters, did you guys see that Sammy Sheen calls her sister Lola out for lying in a tick tock video and slamming her for not getting Denise Richards a Mother's day gift.

[Mikayla]

This is the craziest TikTok I've ever seen. And I just, like, happened to scroll through.

[Nick Viall]

I just wish I actually slammed her like, body slam, WWE style.

[Mikayla]

Yeah, it kind of. Honestly, she could have.

[Whitney]

It was verbal.

[Layla]

It was a verbal.

[Mikayla]

It was verbal and it was definitely, definitely unnecessary.

[Whitney]

When she first started, though, I was like, ooh, who's the tea? What's the tea like? And then she was just like, yeah, and I was in that photo too. And I was like, oh, okay, I am sad.

[Mikayla]

And then she's like.

[Whitney]

And just so you know, she's not that great of a person. She actually didn't get our mom anything. And I made the reservation. I was like, I don't know. What did she get invested in this?

[Nick Viall]

Where did Sammy get her?

[Whitney]

She made the. The reservation.

[Nick Viall]

That's not a gift.

[Whitney]

I paid for everyone's food. Lola said she was gonna split the bill with me and she didn't. I got my mom two things of flowers and a bunch of from Barefoot Dreams and a very nice candle and a card. And Lola couldn't even get her fl. Isn't that crazy? But all the comments on that post were saying that she is so nice.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, but like, but Sammy's got that only fans money. Where's Lola?

[Mikayla]

Well, she was a host at that restaurant. I don't. Or maybe she's at an ice cream shop.

[Nick Viall]

I Mean, I think it's great to have Jesus as your best friend, but he ain't, like, giving you cash.

[Mikayla]

He's definitely not paying your bills.

[Whitney]

Baby.

[Layla]

That was really funny.

[Miranda]

I will say, though, you know how there's always that one kid of the group that, like, is the one who is organizing the group gift for the parent.

[Whitney]

Yeah.

[Layla]

And then there's the one.

[Miranda]

But are any of you guys that person in your family?

[Mikayla]

It was always my oldest sister.

[Nick Viall]

It was only my sister when she was trying to scam us, when she was, like, worked for, like, some kind of, you know, one of her many pyramid schemes or whatever. And it was like trying to be like, mom needs makeup. And then she would sell us the makeup and take the profits.

[Mikayla]

Yeah.

[Whitney]

Working towards that. Lexus.

[Mikayla]

How about my brother texted the family group chat. Happy Mother's Day, Mom. Love you so much. That was it.

[Whitney]

What?

[Mikayla]

In the family group chat. Nothing for me. Didn't hear from him once. And, like, you could have texted her personally. I didn't need to see that.

[Whitney]

Also, your sisters.

[Nick Viall]

No, literally, what I love about that is I fully understood everything about his thought process, which was simply like, I just. I need to text my mom. This is the group chat. She's in this group chat. Good.

[Mikayla]

Great.

[Layla]

Do it then.

[Nick Viall]

Done.

[Mikayla]

Crazy.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Whitney]

I do have to say in Lilla's defense, though, that she did post a photo of, like, the flowers and the card that she did get her mom. So she said. I did, actually. I don't know why my sister decided to bring this to social media. I don't know either.

[Mikayla]

You know, Lola was like, what the.

[Nick Viall]

Heck is going on?

[Demi Burnett]

I didn't see.

[Nick Viall]

Well, Sonja Morgan in restaurants just do not mix.

[Mikayla]

No, she's struggling. She's having some time.

[Layla]

Something's going on.

[Mikayla]

She's having some issues with. With the restaurateurs.

[Nick Viall]

She's drinking before she's eating.

[Demi Burnett]

Well.

[Whitney]

Well, I mean, Sonia Morgan is Sonya Morgan for having a great time when she goes out.

[Mikayla]

But before she goes out, I'm still.

[Nick Viall]

Kind of confused by the story because she allegedly is out to dinner, and then an elderly patron at a restaurant was dining who appeared to be in distress.

[Mikayla]

Like, what was the elderly?

[Nick Viall]

Who knows?

[Mikayla]

Oh, she fell.

[Nick Viall]

I don't know. There was distress. So apparently Sonia called, called the 91 1, but then ended up being on.

[Mikayla]

What if she just, like, felt so connected to this old elderly woman and she was like, she has no one to go with her to the hospital. I'll go with her empathy on the stretcher.

[Layla]

Maybe Sonia Morgan just has empathy.

[Mikayla]

Like, maybe that was it.

[Nick Viall]

She's an empath.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Whitney]

It appears that she made a call, a medical call to the restaurant. Officers responded. They issued a written trespass warning to Sonja Morgan at the request of the Breakers Hotel, the owner of Echo, the restaurant that they were at. So she must have been acting up or something. Morgan refused to sign the warning, but police were unable to corroborate that report. I didn't want to leave. I insisted on making sure she was cared for. Morgan tells people about the elderly woman.

[Mikayla]

Wait, so elderly woman. Elderly woman falls. I'm hearing elderly woman falls. Sonia comes to help. Restaurants mad at Sonia. They file trespass. Not allowed to come.

[Nick Viall]

Wait, where?

[Mikayla]

No, no, no. Is this the same restaurant?

[Nick Viall]

They're like, no different restaurant.

[Layla]

This is in Flor.

[Nick Viall]

Why is she being accused of trespassing at a restaurant that's open?

[Whitney]

They issued a written trespass warning. So I'm wondering if maybe, like, wrote.

[Mikayla]

It down on, like, a. A bar down.

[Whitney]

The police. Police issued it.

[Nick Viall]

This is official.

[Layla]

Very Florida restaurant.

[Whitney]

But what's confusing is that it says Morgan refused to sign that warning. So I. I guess you have an option when a police officer gives you a trespass warning from the hotel restaurant.

[Mikayla]

She's trying to save a life.

[Whitney]

She's. She's in the middle of working right now.

[Mikayla]

She's a hero.

[Nick Viall]

This is a public est that welcomes people when they're open. Lots of people. But they don't want her, and they want to make. But, like. But why?

[Mikayla]

I need them. I need them to release a statement.

[Whitney]

I saw the video of her being care. Like, on the gurney out. And she's clearly, like, actively speaking. So she's not in any type of.

[Nick Viall]

She's on a farm. Yeah, but yelling at people.

[Whitney]

It says, where's the.

[Mikayla]

Where's the elderly lady?

[Nick Viall]

Where's this video?

[Layla]

I don't know. Florida has a really hard time with divas.

[Whitney]

It was just Sonia. Sonia made the call and somehow ended up on the gurney going into the ambulance.

[Layla]

Diva down.

[Nick Viall]

Justin is bringing up this video. I. I have this vision in my head.

[Taylor]

I hope this is the first one.

[Nick Viall]

Is that Sonia?

[Whitney]

That's Sonia on the gurney.

[Nick Viall]

That guy in the background looks so over.

[Mikayla]

She crying?

[Whitney]

No, she was just, like.

[Nick Viall]

I heard. I heard giggling in the background.

[Taylor]

This is the picture of her on the gurney.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. Just chilling. And this is after she called the.

[Whitney]

911 to help assistance for someone else.

[Layla]

She said, oh, she's fine. Actually, let me take a little ride.

[Whitney]

Summer had said that she like sustained minor injuries and that the. They wanted to check her out. But I'm just like, I feel like that's like a.

[Mikayla]

That's a hefty bill. Sonia.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

Just to get checked out. I will say well.

[Layla]

Wishing her the best.

[Whitney]

Thoughts and prayers.

[Layla]

Thoughts and prayers.

[Mikayla]

Getting into some secret lives of Mormon wives. The women are continuing to beef online. Jesse called out Demi on Instagram and after they disrespected her in what I'm guessing was our interview, because we did have Brett and Demi together. And Jesse says a 47 year old washed up loser who can't hold a job and asked my husband and I for ten grand just a few months ago so he could pay his bills.

[Nick Viall]

Is like, what does Brett do for work?

[Whitney]

I don't know. I know he was on Claire Crawley. He was on the Bachelor and was not.

[Mikayla]

That's not a job occupation.

[Nick Viall]

It's not work.

[Miranda]

He didn't get things trying to be.

[Nick Viall]

On reality tv and that's awesome. But I am just curious what he's. What he's been up to. Should have asked, I guess.

[Mikayla]

Well, we didn't know that he's a.

[Whitney]

Managing partner at Armstrong Consulting Group.

[Nick Viall]

Oh.

[Whitney]

As per his official LinkedIn page.

[Nick Viall]

That sounds like a real job. I mean.

[Mikayla]

Yeah.

[Layla]

Consulting.

[Miranda]

That was in June of 2022.

[Mikayla]

2022.

[Layla]

He's freelance maybe.

[Nick Viall]

Well, managing partner means he has some kind of equity or in this company. I mean, it could be.

[Layla]

I don't imagine Demi with a scrub, you know?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. I mean, they don't look like they live poor.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

Jesse is like not afraid to call him out and say, I mean him. If that's true. Which that's a strange thing to lie about because I feel like maybe there would be receipts of that, maybe not, but I don't know. But like to. To be like, hey, he want. He needs money from us. And then like, now that's a bold.

[Nick Viall]

Thing to ask your alleged co stars for money. The same people that allegedly and Jesse does get into. I know it's on episodes somewhere, four or five and six. I don't know. We get into it this episode. But the whole conversation about like what went down before seasons one and season two in terms of their contract negotiation. Jesse breaks it down in great detail shortly when. When Michaela and Jesse make their appearance on this episode. But wouldn't it be kind of. It's like that that's the same people he went to and asked for money.

[Mikayla]

I mean, what I learned in this season of Secret Lives and more than wives is that Jesse's a millionaire and she's sitting on a hair empire. Like, they use the M word.

[Whitney]

They did.

[Mikayla]

Yeah, the M word. Millionaire.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, I thought you'd say mogul.

[Mikayla]

I mean, we could throw that in there.

[Whitney]

Okay, for sure.

[Mikayla]

Well, they do have a new intro to the show. It is very iconic. I saw Taylor, Frankie, Paul's little bts. She posted iconic. So good. Jesse and Layla don't get their hair wet. Which I feel like if I'm production, I'm fighting them on that. I'm saying, listen, I see the vision at the end. You want to get your hair wet. Don't be the only two that don't.

[Miranda]

She's already sent the video.

[Mikayla]

She's.

[Jesse]

I do have it.

[Mikayla]

We have her response.

[Nick Viall]

Well, because when we interviewed Jesse, Michaela, we were. There were so much. Honestly, we went in with so many questions. We didn't even get to most of them because they were just serving up and then and this and. Oh, by the way.

[Whitney]

Oh, my God, I wasn't even on the docket.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, okay.

[Mikayla]

So we've asked Jesse to respond to this question on why she did not get her hair wet in the intro, and she has sent us a response.

[Nick Viall]

So we. Should we play it now?

[Mikayla]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Okay. You guys, I was just as surprised to see that Layla and I had dry hair in the intro because we all got wet. I was actually the very first one to film our intro, and I was like the guinea pig. So I was, like, getting my hair in there, flipping it around. I actually have so many videos of having wet hair. And if you look at the poster, we all had wet hair. So I don't know. It's kind of funny because everyone's like, they're just divas, and they didn't want to get their hair wet. Trust me, if that was the case, they would have just been like, sorry, you're getting your hair wet. We don't have that kind of stuff. So, yeah, I did get my hair wet, but maybe I just looked so stunning. Gorgeous with dress.

[Mikayla]

Literally had to, like, leave it that way.

[Macy]

But no, we definitely had to do some work. Layla, it was actually really funny because her hair is naturally curly, and they were nervous that if she got her hair wet, her extensions would be just kind of wavy and wet and her own hair would curl up. And so we had to get, like, lube and lube her hair down. That's like a little hair stylist, but trick and put lube in it to make it look wet instead of getting it actually wet. And then they got her extensions wet. So little bts. But maybe it just didn't look as good as they were wanting, and that's why they kept us both dry. I'm not sure. I'm gonna have to ask and find out, because I was curious about that too.

[Whitney]

Okay, well, it's funny that it's funny that she says that, because I thought about that on the poster. I was like, we. All of their hair is wet, so I wonder if they were like, no, girls, it's fine. We'll go in and post and give you wet hair. And I was like, but how did they do that?

[Nick Viall]

They lubed her up. Jesse, thank you for coming through this morning. Picking up for. We failed to do when you first showed up and asked that question. I'm glad we were able to get it.

[Mikayla]

Me too. Because I also was like, these bitches just didn't want to get their extensions wet because I've had extensions once or twice in my life before, and I know how much of a bitch it is to, like, once you get them wet and, like, the whole drying process. And I was like, listen, honestly, I get it. But I am shocked that production wasn't like, girls trust. Get them wet. And they did. So that's so strange that they didn't use. Why would they make the two of them.

[Nick Viall]

That is weird.

[Mikayla]

Production choice.

[Taylor]

Do you think someone accidentally, like, deleted the footage of, like, the wet shots?

[Mikayla]

They were like.

[Nick Viall]

I kind of almost like, there's just no real good explanation for why they wouldn't do that.

[Taylor]

Or like, it wasn't in focus rolling that whole time.

[Layla]

Yeah, maybe they were like, let's. Let's create some discourse.

[Mikayla]

The person. Yeah, the person in charge of the intro is, like, kind of pissed at Jesse and Layla.

[Nick Viall]

Well, we. I told you. We have a jam pack episode for you today because coming up next, Chloe Veach is with us. Is hosting a new Netflix show, Sneaky Links, a show about maybe falling in love with the person you don't want anyone to know you're having sex with. So I'm not sure how that all is going to work out.

[Whitney]

It's a crazy concept.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Look, I see the vision. You know what I'm saying?

[Mikayla]

But, like, I don't see it executing.

[Nick Viall]

They don't want people to know they're having sex with them.

[Whitney]

I don't know how they got them there. It's like, did you. Did they go out to the person that's hiding them and be like, you're on a new dating show. We're not going to tell you who, what, when but when you get there, surprise.

[Layla]

Anyways, I want to know could you potentially sneaky link with someone else's sneaky link?

[Nick Viall]

I don't know.

[Mikayla]

Ask Chloe V. We'll have to ask.

[Nick Viall]

Chloe who is up next. And then after Chloe will break down summer house breakup heard around the world between Lexi and Jesse get into Mormon wives and then the interview. Certainly many of you have been tuning in for with Jesse and Michaela. But coming up next, Chloe Veach. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Mental health awareness is growing, but there's still progress to be made. 26% of Americans who participated in a recent survey say they have avoided seeking mental health support due to a fear of judgment. Many of you listening have thought considered therapy. Maybe some of you have tried it but like didn't really necessarily love the first experience. Maybe you thought it was a little too expensive, maybe it was too inconvenient. Maybe you just didn't love the first therapist that you connected with. Well, BetterHelp is here to help you try it again or try it for the first time because all of those obstacles that are obviously understandable when it comes to seeking mental health help. BetterHelp helps with they are working with literally over 30,000 licensed therapists to help ensure that you can connect with the therapist that is right for you. They will assign a therapist based off of questions that you answer and needs that you have. But if you're not absolutely in love with how you are connecting with your therapist, no problem. You can switch therapists every time for free until you land on someone that you feel good about.

[Mikayla]

BetterHelp is also fully online so it doesn't matter if you want to do it from your phone, if you want to do it from your tablet, if you want to do it from the car, you can do it from literally anywhere. Better help truly is there to help you with so many options to make you feel as comfortable as possible. This is Mental Health Awareness Month so let's encourage everyone to take care of their well being and break the stigma. The world is better when people are healthy and happy.

[Nick Viall]

We're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.com v I a l l today to get 10 off your months. That's BetterHelp. H e l p.com v I a.

[Mikayla]

L L One day it's cool, the next I'm sweating through my clothes. Is it early menopause? We don't know. But I did realize it is time to switch things up And Quince has exactly what I'm looking for. Lighter layers, better fabrics and prices that don't make you think twice. I have been raving about Quince for some time now. Truly, they have some really amazing pieces. Like I'm, I'm, I've been so over fast fashion. I've been really into just like investing in good quality pieces. And that is what Quince is all about. And all of their Items are priced 50 to 80% less than what you'd find at similar brands. Quince has all the things that you would actually wear, like organic cotton silk polos, European linen beach shorts, comfortable pants that work for everything from backyard hangs to nice dinners. They have a really amazing linen, linen dresses, linen shirts, linen skirts, linen pants. Like it's summer. Put on linen. It's the most breathable outfit ever. And get it from Quince because it is so affordable. Elevate your closet with quince. Go to quince.com v I a l l for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N c e.com I a l l to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com v I a l l Chloe.

[Nick Viall]

Welcome back to the show.

[Demi Burnett]

Thanks Nick.

[Nick Viall]

So great to have you.

[Demi Burnett]

Thanks for having me.

[Nick Viall]

We're very excited about the new show on Netflix you're hosting.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Demi Burnett]

Can you imagine?

[Nick Viall]

Well, sneaky links. We can. Sneaky links help. Help us for the people who may not know what a sneaky link is.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

First help us understand what that is.

[Demi Burnett]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

And then explain us. We're the only concern we have is how are people who don' people to know that they're hooking up with someone. What are the possibilities? They're going to want to do it on tv.

[Demi Burnett]

Okay. So I can't physically give any spoilers, but I'm going to spoil it right now. Perfect. Yes, they do. They hook up. Even if there's cameras they love sneak in. So the definition of a sneaky link, for me, the easiest way I can explain it was and is, you know when you don't want anyone to know that you're in a relationship with someone or that you're hooking up with someone. It could be a six month period of you've had sex with them a couple times or it could be a 10 year period period or there's a couple on the show that was sneaky linking for 10 years.

[Nick Viall]

And like why, why were they sneaky?

[Demi Burnett]

Because of the lack of boundaries. Like, he didn't want to be with her. And she's very much like, okay, well, I'm just gonna continue this because it's easy to do it. And I think as women, it's so easy to fall into something like that. They would crawl from room because it's in a motel. So they're in each other's room. Well, they're in their own rooms. And then they'd come out and they'd sneak away from their sneaky links and go meet up with other people in the motel and, like, crawl across, like, army crawl style.

[Mikayla]

That's crazy.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Whitney]

And we're gonna see it.

[Demi Burnett]

You're gonna see all of it.

[Nick Viall]

And what. And were you helping facilitate these hookups?

[Demi Burnett]

I mean, my job as the host was just to be there as the big sister.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Demi Burnett]

Like, if. If he. If he hurts you or upsets you. Babe, come here.

[Mikayla]

Yeah.

[Demi Burnett]

I'm literally a veteran at dating shows at this point. I understand your struggle, your pain. Come cry on my shoulder. It wasn't my job to direct what they should do if that was to happen, because there's no way I would get sued. It would be a HR issue because all the guys were really, really hot.

[Nick Viall]

All the guys were hot.

[Demi Burnett]

All of the guys, yeah.

[Mikayla]

Wow.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

Did you, like, find love?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

Being like, should I go into room ac really quick.

[Demi Burnett]

Funny you say that because Chloe's army crawling me.

[Mikayla]

Yeah. You're like, there's a lot of women army crawling. I don't know what they're doing. But it was really crazy. Chloe, why is she wearing a blonde wig?

[Demi Burnett]

It was very hard for me to transition mentally, like, on set, from talent to host, because I've literally been talent for so long, and now I'm like, oh, no. They look to me now and I need to tell them what to do. Fuck.

[Whitney]

You're like, babe.

[Mikayla]

And I would fuck them and I would fuck em.

[Macy]

And I would.

[Mikayla]

That's what I would do.

[Demi Burnett]

You know, I love you. We need to be friends.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

Yeah. That's what you tell them.

[Demi Burnett]

There was a couple times I said to some of the executives, would it be like a violation if I was to, like, obviously if they ended up with no one at the end, if I was to get their number.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, it's like a power dynamic there.

[Demi Burnett]

And they were like, probably couldn't. You probably couldn't do that, Chloe. And I'm like, just double checking if.

[Whitney]

They slid into my DMs.

[Nick Viall]

You don't think that. But could you just go ahead and actually ask the lawyers.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And make sure I can. I can't.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Because if I can, I'm going to.

[Demi Burnett]

If it's not in writing. Yeah, I can do what I want.

[Mikayla]

Where did. Where did Sneaky Links film?

[Demi Burnett]

So they filmed it in Scottsdale, Arizona.

[Mikayla]

Oh, okay.

[Demi Burnett]

Boiling. I actually had heat exhaustion one of the days.

[Mikayla]

Oh, God bless.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah, it was. It was a lot. God bless Arizona.

[Mikayla]

And God bless.

[Nick Viall]

Do we have a preview of this trailer? Can we play a trailer? When's it come out?

[Demi Burnett]

21 May.

[Mikayla]

Oh, wow.

[Demi Burnett]

Comes out tomorrow, guys.

[Nick Viall]

Comes out tomorrow.

[Mikayla]

Tomorrow.

[Nick Viall]

All right, let's check out the trailer of Sneaky Links.

[Jesse]

I am so ready to be in love.

[Nick Viall]

I'm ready for something real. I'm moving out of my whole phase. I'm trying to find true love.

[Macy]

What is he doing here?

[Nick Viall]

What's up, people?

[Macy]

It was a high school thing.

[Demi Burnett]

That is, I thought I was going.

[Macy]

To see a whole new set of singles.

[Demi Burnett]

You have been bought here with the person that you love having casual sex with, AKA your sneaky link.

[Whitney]

This is going to get messy for sure and quick.

[Mikayla]

Getting closer, getting closer.

[Macy]

I'm helping you explore your Sneaky link relationship in a deeper way. But it's okay for you to explore.

[Nick Viall]

Other connections if you're curious. This is a disaster.

[Whitney]

Would you like to come over?

[Nick Viall]

Holy smokes.

[Demi Burnett]

They're all hot smoking.

[Whitney]

He's giving me zero attention.

[Jesse]

If he won't, someone else will.

[Demi Burnett]

Damn, she's actually kind of cute.

[Whitney]

Kelsey didn't only step on my toes.

[Mikayla]

She came for my neck.

[Nick Viall]

I came in with some habits that.

[Layla]

I needed to break.

[Nick Viall]

Some of you have made crazy progress.

[Macy]

And I can see that there are romantic sparks flying.

[Jesse]

I kind of want Cole. I'm not here to make friends.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, we are in trouble when you touch me.

[Mikayla]

Wait, I can already see, like, the people who have been sneaky linking for a while, they go here. They imagine to, like, continue to sneaky link, and then their guy is, like, off with another girl. I'm pissed.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah, no, literally.

[Nick Viall]

I have quite a couple questions after seeing that one. Are any of the men the ones who wish they could be in a relationship that are being hidden? Is it? Is it? Yeah, they are. There are some men. There are some sad, sad boys.

[Demi Burnett]

And I think that's why I was so intrigued, because I haven't seen it from that side. I thought it was going to be the women that are like, I want you to marry me. Like, the ultimatum out there in the wild.

[Nick Viall]

How many sexual partners did the person who have the Most sex have on the show. Like, I. I don't mean coming into the show. I mean filming the show. Like, how many.

[Mikayla]

Like, they bounced around.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. How. What was the most sexual partners one person had?

[Demi Burnett]

I think three.

[Nick Viall]

Wow.

[Whitney]

Question for the casting process. Like, how did you. How did they get their sneaky link? Or like, how did they get the person that. That was hiding them to come on the show?

[Demi Burnett]

So I was worried about this.

[Mikayla]

Yeah.

[Demi Burnett]

And I feel like from an audience perspective, it's always like, well, how did they not know this is lies? Like, what, like, two ought to handle after the first. First season, you're gonna know it's too hot to handle. I went on X on the beach, mtv, and before that, I kind of knew already what exes were coming on, because I would call them and be like, oh, by the way, I'm going on the show.

[Mikayla]

What are you doing in a month?

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah. Literally. So I was worried about that because I thought, I want it to be natural, whatever. But the casting process took a year, really.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Demi Burnett]

So they were constantly like. Because I even spoke to them just to understand how it worked. But they. They picked five or six sneaky links from each person. They wanted to be an original on the show, and then they would vet them for months and months, and then it would be like, so carefully curated that none of them actually knew. It was like genuine shock and surprise. Some of them didn't even want to continue filming. It was like, I do not want this. I did not come here for this.

[Nick Viall]

When their sneak healing showed up. Oh, that's because they've been. You can know that because they've been terrible to that person.

[Demi Burnett]

But it's not an ex.

[Nick Viall]

I did not send them to get exposed.

[Mikayla]

Did any of them have, like, relationships and they were like, cheating on that relationship with this sneaky link and maybe that relationship ended or something? Like, was there any of that kind of canoodling going on?

[Demi Burnett]

I don't think necessarily that exact scenario. Scenario. But the morals, the values, the boundaries, and everything in between, everything's bled.

[Nick Viall]

From your perspective, how many of the people who didn't want to date their sneaky link didn't want to date them because. Because they didn't perceive them to be their physical match or equal.

[Demi Burnett]

Quite a few of them.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

That may be the number one reason, do you think, from your perspective?

[Demi Burnett]

That was very hard to watch because no one wants. Listen, exes and sneaky links. Completely different. An ex is someone that you've introduced to your family. You've gone out into the Wild with them. You've posted them on social media, and then all of a sudden, it's like, sneaky links. You don't want anyone to see them. It's like, there's a reason you don't want the world to know that you're together. So, yeah, it does get. I cried multiple times on the show.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Demi Burnett]

Because it's just. It's hard because as a woman, it's like. And especially as a guy as well, but I've got a vagina. So as a woman, I've been through. It's so relatable because I've been through every single fucking scenario that's on the show.

[Whitney]

You want to be like, come here.

[Nick Viall]

It's okay. Please learn anything from watching the show, or is it just a fun, hot, messy mess?

[Demi Burnett]

I wouldn't have gone on the show as a host if it wasn't adding some value to, like, relationships as a whole, because otherwise I would literally just break boundaries and do whatever I wanted to do.

[Mikayla]

But you would have joined the cast.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah, literally would have joined the cast. Spicy. Mari is the relationship expert, so she is someone who has a method that she brings people on the show with me, and she sits down and we have this, like, link lowdown at the end of the episodes, and she, like, rips them a new butthole. She's like, this is what you're doing wrong. You're breaking boundaries. You're pressing her buttons. This is toxic. This is what you need to change. This is what you need to do. So, yeah, you do. You do learn some growth.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Demi Burnett]

Growth in all areas.

[Nick Viall]

Did you watch Temptation Island?

[Demi Burnett]

Yes. And I watched the whole of your reunion episode.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, did you?

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. What did you think? How do you think this compares to that? Because that was a massive smash hit, particularly around the messiness.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah. I think two completely separate shows. Two completely different shows, the same kind of blueprint in dating, but Temptation Island. Oh, my God. I loved it. I binge watched it in, I think, less than two days. I didn't sleep.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, my God.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah, I loved it, but I was angry whilst watching it.

[Nick Viall]

I'm like, what made you the angriest?

[Whitney]

Rhythmic water slapping, Literally.

[Nick Viall]

That'll get you.

[Whitney]

That'll get you every time.

[Mikayla]

Yeah. Him in the shower with the. And they didn't have the camera for the threesome, and all it said was rhythmic water slapping.

[Demi Burnett]

Oh, really? All I heard was the birds chirping. The sun's come out.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

And then they're all like, all right, bye.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah, no, literally But I think with that show, the pain point was, oh, if this was my boyfriend, I would be fuming. Whereas with sneaky links, the pain point is, oh, my God. This is what I do in the outside world, and this is why I haven't found love yet.

[Whitney]

Right.

[Demi Burnett]

So, like, this is.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, do you think there's a bit of a mirror for people watching?

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah. There's different pain points in different shows where.

[Nick Viall]

What did you think about yourself after hosting this show? Have you ever been a sneaky link or. Sneaky linked?

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah, I mean, I've been a sneaky link. No, I have. I've never been the sneaky link.

[Nick Viall]

I don't think no one's been embarrassing, ever.

[Mikayla]

Hide Chloe beach people.

[Demi Burnett]

You'd be surprised. There's no way you'd be surprised.

[Mikayla]

They're all like, we're dating. She's like, God, no, please, please, no, please, no.

[Demi Burnett]

Hide behind the plant.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. So you've. You've hidden a boy before.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Why?

[Demi Burnett]

And a woman. When I. When I first was like, I think I'm bi, it was a sneaky linky relationship. It lasted a year.

[Nick Viall]

Well, that makes.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah, but I learned a lot from that because now I understand that I shouldn't have done that, but, yeah. Sneaky Lincoln. It's. It's not the way forward.

[Mikayla]

Was it hard this to. To host this kind of show? Like, did you find yourself kind of picking and choosing your favorites?

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah, I mean, a few people did grow on me on the show. Only from, like, a storyline perspective, though, because when you're like, I respect someone's craft.

[Nick Viall]

And by craft, you mean how they're able to manipulate.

[Demi Burnett]

I think the way that they're able to direct themselves in a narrative of. Okay. I know that the show is about sneaky links and growth, and I feel like some of the men did have a lot of growth. A couple didn't, you know?

[Mikayla]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Which one did you want to have sex with.

[Demi Burnett]

Again?

[Mikayla]

Again?

[Demi Burnett]

I feel like everybody. H.R. you know, in.

[Nick Viall]

In your head, not in reality.

[Demi Burnett]

I think everyone would want to have sex with the same person. So you watch it. You would probably want to have sex with the same person that I do.

[Nick Viall]

Was he the toxic one or the one who learned?

[Demi Burnett]

He's the toxic one. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Okay. Okay.

[Demi Burnett]

But I'm in therapy.

[Whitney]

Thank God.

[Demi Burnett]

Okay. I'm in therapy, and because of this show, I want to go to college.

[Mikayla]

College.

[Jesse]

Really?

[Nick Viall]

Say more.

[Demi Burnett]

I want to study.

[Mikayla]

No more.

[Demi Burnett]

No more tv. I'll be in your doctor's office. I'll see you in July.

[Nick Viall]

So what do you want to go to school for?

[Demi Burnett]

I want to study, like, psychology.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, okay.

[Mikayla]

I want to learn the brain of.

[Demi Burnett]

The toxicity, the difference between sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissism. Gaslighting. I know that the last time we had a conversation about that when I was on the podcast. Gaslighting is such an overly used term.

[Jesse]

Buzzword.

[Demi Burnett]

It frustrates him. I love it every time I bring it.

[Nick Viall]

It's not like when people water down the meaning of. Of meaningful words.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

You know, because they do exist. Not everyone. Who made you mad as a narcissist.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah. You know, and I think I'm starting to learn that. I'm like, oh, okay. He's probably not textbook.

[Nick Viall]

Selfish. Possibly.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

For sure.

[Demi Burnett]

Just a terrible Purse him for you. But not for everyone else.

[Nick Viall]

Who knows?

[Demi Burnett]

Because I'm biased.

[Mikayla]

His mom might think he's great.

[Demi Burnett]

Yes.

[Nick Viall]

What else have you been up to?

[Demi Burnett]

What have I been up to? I literally moved to America.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, my God.

[Demi Burnett]

I live here now.

[Macy]

Welcome.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah. Thank you. Have my I1 visa. You can't get rid of me for three years now.

[Mikayla]

Well, thank God.

[Demi Burnett]

I have been learning the ropes of America and dating and finding my feet.

[Mikayla]

Have you found yourself at a raising cane?

[Macy]

Oh, yeah.

[Demi Burnett]

Every Wednesday.

[Mikayla]

Perfect.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. What. What is the biggest difference dating in America versus dating in the uk?

[Demi Burnett]

I feel like men in America are very straightforward in the beginning. They're like, oh, I love you. Like, you're so good looking. Like, oh, I'm gonna treat you like a queen. I'm a gentleman that you've always needed. And then a month down the line, you're like, he's not called me in two days. What's going on? So I think the men in the UK are very hard to get, but the men in America are very easily.

[Macy]

They approach you quicker and then called love bombing.

[Demi Burnett]

Nick's like, stop using.

[Whitney]

Sorry about your buzzwords. But they're like, you're everything. I want to put you on a pedestal. I love you so much.

[Nick Viall]

And then go, if you're saying I love you with the intent to get laid and you don't, you know. Yeah.

[Whitney]

Can you fall in love and fall out of love that quickly?

[Nick Viall]

Well, I think there are people who just get excited and are emotionally immature and they actually maybe think they're in love.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And then like a week later, like, oh, I guess I just want to have sex with you.

[Mikayla]

What is the most American thing you've been doing since you've been here?

[Demi Burnett]

The most American thing? Driving on the Opposite side of the road. Bloody hell. The first six months, I was petrified.

[Mikayla]

Swerving into ongoing traffic. All y' all are wrong. I get it.

[Demi Burnett]

I was getting in the wrong side of the car. Every. Every time my friends are like, what are you doing?

[Nick Viall]

Are you guys in. What? Libya. There's like two.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah, Libya or Libya.

[Nick Viall]

There's an African country, I believe, that drives on the wrong side.

[Mikayla]

Majora or menorah.

[Demi Burnett]

Wait, what's menorah?

[Nick Viall]

But you guys are the odd man out.

[Mikayla]

The inner, I believe. Libya. Menorah, I believe, is the inner. And country is that. Oh, well. Or your vagina.

[Demi Burnett]

I thought we were talking about countries.

[Nick Viall]

You thought you segued into vaginas.

[Mikayla]

Nick said Libya and you said labia.

[Demi Burnett]

Because there's a. Okay, I. I get the connect now.

[Mikayla]

Is it really only Australia in. In.

[Nick Viall]

I don't even think it's Australia.

[Demi Burnett]

I don't think Australia drives on it.

[Nick Viall]

No, I think it's just the UK.

[Whitney]

Left side of the road. Correct.

[Mikayla]

It's got to be more places than that.

[Whitney]

It says United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, India, Japan, and many Caribbean islands. And that's right.

[Mikayla]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

New Zealand does. I've been there. What am I talking about?

[Demi Burnett]

But other than that, I don't know. I mean, you have a lot of.

[Mikayla]

Chicken, a lot of sauce, a lot.

[Demi Burnett]

Of all of it.

[Mikayla]

Yeah.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah. I feel like you just have to drive everywhere. There's not really much to do.

[Nick Viall]

So wait, back to the British boys. Like, they just. They're. Are they mean at first? Are they hard to read?

[Demi Burnett]

Hard to read mean. And it stays pretty consistent.

[Nick Viall]

So. So what I'm hearing is the UK men are just, up front, sucky, and the American men pretend not to be sucky at first, but then you eventually find out they're also sucky.

[Demi Burnett]

Yes.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Demi Burnett]

Yes.

[Mikayla]

So all of them just suck at the end of the day?

[Demi Burnett]

Only the ones that I've met.

[Mikayla]

Okay.

[Macy]

Okay.

[Mikayla]

How many do you feel like you've met personally in your go around?

[Demi Burnett]

Do you know what I think? I don't. Okay. In general as a whole or just in America? Because this is the very, very broad question.

[Mikayla]

I think, as a whole.

[Demi Burnett]

Okay.

[Mikayla]

All of them met?

[Nick Viall]

A few.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah. Quite a few, I think. Yeah. It's almost like homework for me.

[Mikayla]

Well, back to school.

[Demi Burnett]

Exactly. I need to understand the minds of men. One thing, if I had children, I would definitely say travel the world, date men, have sex with a condom, obviously. But with. You don't have to wait months to have sex with someone.

[Mikayla]

I don't Think, you know, you're like, do you feel like that messes with the chances of maybe having something? Because I know a lot of women are always like, oh, you can't have sex the first date. They'll think I'm easy. They won't date me. Like, do you think that's valid or do you think that's all in our women's heads?

[Demi Burnett]

No, I think 50. 50. I think it all depends on the vibes of the date. I mean, if you're emotionally mature enough to understand that you're an adult, he's an adult, you're vibing. He's sexy, you're sexy. And it's like, okay, this is. I. I just want to have sex with you. I think you're allowed to do that. You're an adult. As long as it's conventional. Sure. But then on the flip hand, if it's like, you, just me. I'm going to talk on my perspective. Me going out there and just being like, I just want to have sex with everyone. I'm allowed to do that. But is it going to be perceived as okay? She probably doesn't want something serious. Yeah. I don't know.

[Mikayla]

It's valid.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

Yeah, it's valid. Nick, what's your take on that?

[Nick Viall]

I think timelines are useless. I think a guy will wait. Guys love a goal. Give him six months, he'll wait six months. Give him two days, he'll wait two days. I think if you. I think if you. Like you said it perfectly. If you want to have sex, you should have sex because that's how you're gonna sex if you're having sex because you think he'll like you more. He won't.

[Demi Burnett]

No.

[Nick Viall]

He never will.

[Demi Burnett]

Definitely not.

[Nick Viall]

He'll like you more by not having sex. Yeah. Once he has sex with you, he's like, oh, I guess I just wanted to have sex with you.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Men don't know that until after they have sex with you.

[Demi Burnett]

But they think they're interested until they're in to it.

[Nick Viall]

Kinda, you know, they just.

[Demi Burnett]

They're like, actually, probably not that thing.

[Nick Viall]

I was.

[Demi Burnett]

Not seeing.

[Mikayla]

The future won't be a second date.

[Whitney]

Like, just checking the oil. They're like, no, no, not gonna happen.

[Nick Viall]

That's so. And that can happen even if you make them wait six. Six weeks or six dates.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

Honestly, I think what we've learned is men are disgusting.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

Honestly. And we are just so lovely. You know what I'm saying?

[Demi Burnett]

Women are so, so attractive and sexy.

[Mikayla]

Yes.

[Demi Burnett]

And we smell good.

[Mikayla]

We do.

[Demi Burnett]

We.

[Mikayla]

We have soft, supple skin.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah, only if we moisturize. Mine's pretty scaly right now. I'm not gonna lie.

[Whitney]

But you smell amazing.

[Demi Burnett]

Do you know what expectation I hate? And I want to know about you girls. Right. I shave every two days. Sorry, Nick. Women, conversation. No, because, like, he's used TMI shaving.

[Nick Viall]

He's. Yeah, that seems like a lot.

[Whitney]

Sometimes it gets.

[Demi Burnett]

No, because I get. There we go. Like, my legs. My hair's like, black. I've only got highlights.

[Mikayla]

You're reaching to the choir. Yeah, preach into the choir.

[Demi Burnett]

So I have to shave or whatever. I wake up sometimes.

[Nick Viall]

I'm like, no, I'm kidding.

[Mikayla]

Nick will make like. Like, if I do this, will you shave your legs yet or.

[Nick Viall]

No.

[Macy]

Love that.

[Whitney]

It's a negotiation.

[Mikayla]

Compromise.

[Demi Burnett]

My.

[Mikayla]

It's like, if I go and get you a coffee this morning, will you maybe shave your legs when you take a shower or. No. I'm like, I don't think today is the day for that.

[Nick Viall]

I'll try again tomorrow, but. Okay, but make sure it's iced.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

You shave every two days.

[Demi Burnett]

I have to.

[Mikayla]

And that's the expectation that you hate. Is that like, to be like, yeah.

[Demi Burnett]

If my armpits get a little bit hairy, I'm like, if I want to go to a club and I put my hands up, people going to look at me and be like, oh, but then should I care?

[Mikayla]

Know?

[Demi Burnett]

Why do I care?

[Whitney]

I don't know. Cuz we're.

[Mikayla]

We're conditioned. We're conditioned that way. I saw a tik tok of a man. He said, I'm sick. He said something about, like, girl women always being like, oh, I haven't shaved. I haven't shaved. And he was like, I eat the sticker on an apple.

[Jesse]

Lay down.

[Mikayla]

You do.

[Whitney]

It's so true, though. They don't care.

[Mikayla]

Nasty. Y' all don't care. So, like, you know, why do I care? I don't. Nick made me get a massage once and.

[Nick Viall]

Made you a monster. Am I.

[Whitney]

No.

[Mikayla]

Get that massage.

[Whitney]

That's a great. That's a great thing to be able to do.

[Mikayla]

But he didn't tell me that. It wasn't a massage. It was a. It was a lymphatic stretch. So I. Me and my bush walked into that room and she had my leg all the way up here and my bush was in her face.

[Nick Viall]

Oh.

[Mikayla]

So that's something that we as a couple did have to work through.

[Demi Burnett]

I actually walked in on my mum giving my neighbor a Full on Brazilian wax. Neighbor when I was younger.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, my God.

[Demi Burnett]

And I thought, oh, my mum.

[Nick Viall]

Mum's.

[Demi Burnett]

She's lesbian. She's cheating on my dad.

[Mikayla]

She's going.

[Demi Burnett]

She's got her face. Because my neighbor was, like, laying on the couch, legs up. My mum was, like, in. Down there. I walked in, I must have been six years old or something, and I've walked out and gone, oh, no. I'm, like, planning the divorce. My dad's gonna leave, and this is gonna happen. You know when you're a kid and you're sat in your bedroom and you're like, oh, no, I've got the weight of the world on my shoulders. What am I gonna take?

[Nick Viall]

Tell him.

[Mikayla]

Yeah, who's gonna take the dogs? The neighbor's like, oh, no. They're having so much fun in there.

[Whitney]

Neighbor's literally crying.

[Demi Burnett]

The funny thing is, I only brought it up to her a little while ago. I was like, mum, because I'm in therapy, I said, that was a very traumatizing moment for me. And she said, obviously, I kind of knew that she was just waxing her vagina, but she went, oh, I didn't actually realize that you'd walked in. Otherwise I would have, like, said something. I said, yeah, that was a bit weird that you didn't say anything. But she didn't know that at all.

[Mikayla]

She was so just knee deep in the cooch. She didn't realize you had entered the room, and neither did the neighbor.

[Whitney]

You're not making eye contact with your mom, but dinner.

[Demi Burnett]

You're like, maybe that's why I shave.

[Mikayla]

Because I'm scared to work every two days. Cracked the curl.

[Nick Viall]

You don't want anyone to think you're cheating.

[Demi Burnett]

No.

[Mikayla]

Cracked the curl.

[Macy]

Just get laser.

[Nick Viall]

It looks like a very fun show, and we're excited that you are a part of it. It's Sneaky Links. It's out tomorrow on netfl. Check it out. If you are in the mood for some scandalous dating hookups, some secrets, some sneaky links, this is the show for you. And congratulations on hosting the show. Very cool experience.

[Macy]

Oh, I appreciate you guys that call.

[Whitney]

Like, I cry.

[Demi Burnett]

Like, first of all, I didn't even think I was going to get it. Like, one of the execs from Netflix called me, and he's like, chloe. Because over the years, they've pitched loads of shows. They're like, we want you to do this, we want you to do that. And it gets to a point where you become disheartened. You're like, it's just never going to happen. Okay, whatever. I'm just going to start waxing vaginas. I got the call and they said, chloe, we've got a show. It's like, in development right now. We want you to be the host. And I'm like, okay. But then I didn't get too excited. A couple weeks later, they were like, okay, the date's locked in. Then the negotiations started happening. Like, I haven't been paid as much as I've been paid from any show, even combined to host. They're now a. I'm like, okay, I think I could do this forever right.

[Nick Viall]

Now in Netflix employee. Yeah, I'm part of the biz.

[Demi Burnett]

Exactly.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And then it must be cool because obviously Netflix has a plethora of talent that I'm sure many of them were, you know, I mean, come on, you got like, you're competing a little bit with your peers is what I'm saying. And like, you, you know, there's always like a.

[Demi Burnett]

It's almost like a job that many.

[Nick Viall]

Of them wish they would have got, you know? Right.

[Demi Burnett]

I mean, I did get that envious feeling when Melinda done her dating and related, and I was like, I would love to do that. No, envy isn't the right word. It's almost like, oh, wow. Like, because.

[Mikayla]

Motivation.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah. It was motivating because no one had ever done it before. No one's ever really been talent turn host on Netflix. Now there's a couple people. And now I am. I'm like, oh, okay. I just hope it gets the second season. So please watch it, guys.

[Mikayla]

Please watch it. Stream, stream, stream, stream, stream.

[Nick Viall]

All right, well, watch it. Check it out. Sounds like you guys are gonna love it. We're excited to watch it. It's out tomorrow. Chloe, working other than on Netflix, where can people find you?

[Demi Burnett]

You can find me on Instagram. Tik tok. Chloe Veach.

[Nick Viall]

All right.

[Demi Burnett]

V E I T C H. Well.

[Nick Viall]

Thanks for coming, Chloe. Thank you. Okay. Wow. Questions asked and answered. It's sound if nothing else. I think it's going to be hot, people hooking up. So I'll be watching.

[Demi Burnett]

Always.

[Layla]

Beautiful.

[Nick Viall]

Right? Let's do Summer House. Did Lexi carry this season?

[Layla]

Yeah, Loki.

[Whitney]

She gave us the drama, honestly.

[Mikayla]

Yeah. If it wasn't for Lexi, we wouldn't have the drama with Sierra and Jesse.

[Whitney]

I mean, Jesse West. Jesse. Like, I'm like. I just think there's just like. It's not even like that. There's like atomic bombs being blown up. It's just like little fires everywhere.

[Nick Viall]

Do we care about anything else?

[Mikayla]

Not really, no. There hasn't been really any other interesting storylines.

[Whitney]

Well, we had the, like, Paige and Craig breakup kind of in the beginning, but then it's like that storyline's completely dropped off.

[Taylor]

Did you catch what she said in this episode when she, like, I'm in.

[Mikayla]

A happy, healthy relationship, I just never see him? Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Well, we did have Lynn. I feel like the moment where Lindsay brought up her, like, anniversary of her breakup post, she activated. Either it was the producers going to Lindsay or Lindsay going to the producers and being like, I just give me this. I just. I've been. I've been living in a room, not being a part of the season, doing absolutely nothing. Or maybe the producers are like, hey, do you know, like, can we get a little something from you? I know you're like, you know all about happy, healthy Lindsay keeping your peace. Can you just be petty for no reason for a second? I mean, completely. We agree this is like an absurd video for her to post.

[Whitney]

The caption was absolutely absurd, but it kind of like feels like I think she's completely over Carl, but I don't think she's over, like, just taking the jobs at Carl. Because I'm like, what other reason are we doing?

[Nick Viall]

Maybe gender reveal, maybe so.

[Whitney]

Also, scavenger hunt.

[Mikayla]

West has never been more for. For his life. When he was like, I read your post. And she was like, okay. And he was like, I didn't see it, but I. I read it. And she was like, so you didn't see it, but you read it? And he's like, well, I didn't. She said, is there something you want to say? He's like, well, no.

[Nick Viall]

Literally.

[Mikayla]

No, literally. Like, he was a panic.

[Nick Viall]

Let me ask you this. What's the line of fucking move on versus, you know, you get to keep talking at some point. And as someone, I'm just saying, saying I know what it's like to be Carl.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Whitney]

Like, I felt bad for Carl at the dinner where I'm just like, first off, he brought the sandwiches. And she's like, I brought better sandwiches.

[Nick Viall]

But, like, Lindsay is pregnant with someone else's child and Carl did do her a favor. And Carl, despite her hating it in the moment and her graciously coming on this show to talk mad about Carl post breakup, which we all appreciated. She should be thanking Carl in a genuine way, not in a petty sort of like, I've moved on despite.

[Mikayla]

I don't think she's in a genuine place quite yet.

[Nick Viall]

Whatever. She doesn't have to really think the reality is that she is having someone else's baby. That wouldn't have happened if it weren't for Carl, like, maybe seeing the light. All that being said, like, I'm just saying I know what it's like to be Carl and having people just, like, not get over the fact that someday in this lifetime, you two had some kind of connection and that connection's over and maybe we can just move on and maybe you can find a different way to get engagement or clarity. I'm just saying I know what it's like, and it's pretty annoying.

[Mikayla]

But also, you do have to put in context that this is a year, less than a year after the breakup.

[Whitney]

It was a year. A year anniversary.

[Mikayla]

I mean, but they. But they've been filming before this episode for a while, so it was less than a year that she's been, like, back living with her ex fiance. I'm sure she's re triggered by a lot of things. It's only been less than a year.

[Nick Viall]

A child.

[Mikayla]

But she hasn't given birth yet. She hasn't, like, had that connection of like, oh, my God, this is like what I was carrying. I can't even think about my life before now, having held this baby. She's kind of like, back living with her ex, back getting re triggered by, like, everything he did. It was only like, I mean, if I 10, 11 months ago, if I'm.

[Nick Viall]

The new boyfriend, hate it, I'm gonna.

[Mikayla]

Turner seems to be very chill.

[Jesse]

Yeah, I think so.

[Nick Viall]

Maybe, you know, she just agree with.

[Whitney]

Nick here in the sense that I'm like, we made choices. I don't think that anybody should have to not be on this show based off of an ex or based off of relationship or it's anybody's responsibility. But you did make a choice to come on and spend your pregnant summer with the ex fiance who you claim to have humiliated you. So I'm like, It just seems like these are just like dig after dig, week after week of like, how do I make Carl uncomfortable in this house?

[Layla]

I love it.

[Whitney]

And I'm just like, I don't. I just.

[Demi Burnett]

It's.

[Whitney]

It's kind of me funny.

[Layla]

It is. Well, it's also like Lindsay's. When the reveal of Lindsay, like, coming back pregnant with another guy's baby to her ex boyfriend, Carl, and living with. With him. All I want to see in that as a viewer is mess.

[Nick Viall]

Listen again, in the terms of this show. It was a funny moment. I'm just saying, practically speaking, it's like.

[Layla]

Carl throwing jabs too. Carl's like, she's not over it.

[Whitney]

Well, she's not, but he's not throwing jabs. That's just like his reaction. He's tried to apologize. He tried to be like, hey, like, let's be cool this summer.

[Layla]

I know. I just want to see them throw more jabs at each other. That's right.

[Whitney]

That's where I'm like, she's pregnant with somebody else's baby. Like doing this. It'd be one thing if, like, if not or she wasn't in a new relationship, then like, fine. But I'm just like, enjoy being pregnant. Enjoy your new relationship.

[Nick Viall]

The conversation that this episode opened up with with Sierra and Jesse having like some kind of serious friend heart to heart. Like, if you're doing that with someone of the opposite sex, that's not your girlfriend and you are supposedly in a, in a new dating situation and you're pursuing a relationship, Couldn't be me. I'm just saying that conversation that Sierra and Jesse had, like, someone wants to have sex with in that scenario, I. There's just no point to have that serious of a conversation about each other's feelings and how one person might feel disrespected or, or needs you to prioritize them some.

[Mikayla]

That is, I will say they, they clearly had a friendship for a while. I mean, they met last year. They've had a friendship. I mean, I think like the whole time if Jesse. I would take it a little bit more serious if we hadn't watched Jesse, Jesse so overly flirt with her for the past two years, two summers. Like, I feel like maybe I would have taken that conversation a little bit more to the heart where it's like, oh no, he just genuinely like misses his friend Sierra and he doesn't like that they're in this like weird limbo friendship where she's kind of being mean to him and he like doesn't understand why. But it does, it does raise some flags when like, you definitely want to her and like you have been non stop flirting with, with her. You've crossed very many boundaries when you're supposed to be in a relationship with Lexi. So if I'm Lexi, I'm also like, this is a weird conversation to be having.

[Whitney]

And I, I also have to say, I'm like, it doesn't feel like Jesse was like so much upset about like where his friendship is with Sierra. As much as he was upset about the names that he was being called. He was like, it hurt my feelings. You called me two Faced. You called me a liar. And it's like, but you are too faced and you are a liar. So, so where did she stutter? What does she apologize for?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, I mean, just he doesn't want to be like the type of liar that women call a narcissist or a monster.

[Whitney]

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. It's like, it's about like you're, you're cockbacking. But I know I'm supposed to be in this committed relationship with Lexi and I know that we're really good friends, but like you guys were really cock blocking me for when the season ends. That's how that felt.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Jesse's never going to change. No, he's never going to have. Have to.

[Mikayla]

Also Kyle was. That was dirty. What part where Kyle goes to Lexi and he's like, were you talking about Sierra? Because that whole thing up there was about Sierra. And like it really was the one comment.

[Taylor]

He did the right thing.

[Whitney]

I kind of liked it too.

[Mikayla]

It felt very like Kyle's stir in the pot.

[Whitney]

See, and that's the thing. In the past he usually he, he does, but he's like messy with it. But I'm just like, I don't know for me, I'm like, I would appreciate knowing that the man that I'm sitting here like debating whether or not I'm gonna stay stay with literally just ran right behind me and goes, this is why she broke up with me. And that Sierra comment came out of nowhere. Like last production edited it out there. Like Lexi said. She said I didn't mention Sierra's name once outside.

[Mikayla]

I wonder if she said it like in person after. You know, like maybe not in that conversation but had said it to him in person when they were hanging out in between the US Open and coming to film for Summer House. And he's like using the that.

[Whitney]

But this is the problem I have with Jesse is that it's like the question that was asked was what was that conversation outside about? And he was like, she's mad that I had a nice time with Sierra.

[Layla]

Not what she said.

[Whitney]

Not the conversation that was had. You couldn't wait to throw her under the bus and have everybody on your side and fudge that girl. And like that's what I don't like about him. He is two faced.

[Nick Viall]

He'll never change though, you know.

[Whitney]

Did you.

[Mikayla]

Him talking. Everything that he says is the most like eye roll comment. I mean he, him talking about Paige. I don't know where I saw, I saw a clip of It. He was talking about Paige, about how she's the funniest girl ever and she's so relatable, she'll go out and she'll order a Coke. Not a diet Coke, but a Coke, a regular Coke. And it's like, okay. Him talking about his exes, he's like, yeah. And none of them were just like, excited about their careers. Like, none of them were. What do you do, Jesse?

[Nick Viall]

First of all, I mean, we talked to Lexi for like 90 minutes. She seems.

[Mikayla]

She seems to be lucky.

[Nick Viall]

Very excited about her career. We learned a lot about Lexi, a lot going on. Sounds like we had a conversation that Jesse never had with her.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Whitney]

About herself.

[Nick Viall]

About herself, yeah.

[Whitney]

Literally.

[Nick Viall]

But I guess that he'll never change because Professor Scott Galloway, I'm a fan of his work. He talks a lot about, like, like the digit. Digitization.

[Whitney]

Digitization, yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Of Internet dating and how it's made dating for women, for all women, just a little bit worse.

[Whitney]

Oh, yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And then it made for a small percentage of men, Jesse, a little bit better. Amazing. Amazing. Because like, everyone online thinks they have access to the 1% available to them. The 6 foot, 4 people who make a little bit of money. And then it's just trash for all the, like, I guess the average, an average looking, average man. So average is whatever you think it is. Has to, like, has to swipe right a thousand times to get one coffee date. And then four out of five of those women will ghost him. Oh. While Jesse Sullivan is up there just being like. And he can just ever. He'll get unlimited chances to.

[Mikayla]

I feel like maybe not after this. I don't know.

[Nick Viall]

He's still.

[Mikayla]

Maybe he'll get more.

[Nick Viall]

No, he still will.

[Mikayla]

Yeah. They'll probably eat him.

[Whitney]

He's getting eaten alive for this on the Internet.

[Nick Viall]

But when he walks out in New York, they'll always be people who think.

[Whitney]

They can talked the most about him too. That's gonna be like, hey, oh, my God, you can't believe that I hooked up with that disgusting slime ball. Yeah, you went for him.

[Nick Viall]

Anyways, congratulations, Lexi. You really handled yourself quite well throughout this season. And that's how you break up.

[Mikayla]

Finale's next week.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

So I'm excited to see how this ends.

[Nick Viall]

All right, Secret lives and Mormon wives time. Before we get to the interview of Jesse and Michaela, you know, Miranda, maybe it's just like rookie rookie season season. You know, we enjoyed our conversation of going deeper with her. She, she. She gave a lot there, but she seemed to be kind of Afraid of all the women this season, well, they.

[Mikayla]

Weren'T the most welcoming.

[Whitney]

Yeah, that intro, like, dance.

[Nick Viall]

Let's see what you got.

[Layla]

It does seem like one of the most terrifying environments to have to enter into as a newbie.

[Nick Viall]

Like, the one person you know is the person you had a falling out with because you are in each other's husbands kind of have had a thing or not.

[Whitney]

Huge public fallout, information exposed about you against your will.

[Nick Viall]

Your one ally is Whitney, maybe.

[Mikayla]

That must be a little frustrating on Miranda's part of just kind of like, bitch, I was a fucking og.

[Whitney]

I started this shit.

[Mikayla]

Literally, y' all are about to tell me I can't be in Mom Talk when I helped create this.

[Whitney]

Well, that's why it was so funny to me at the beginning of the first episode where it was just like, oh, my God. Wait, is that Miranda? Oh, my God. Like, she was in Mom Talk, and it was just like, girls, don't act like you haven't seen her. Like, we remember the contracts.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. But I don't think we realize when, like, this group of women who make up this show are a small percentage of all the moms of Utah in Salt Lake City. And the aspiring mom talkers are. We've learned, talking to these women, like, there's a lot of them. There's thousands of them. So even though, like, Taylor knew Miranda, I honestly don't think a lot of these women, like, they weren't, like, friends with her. Like, they didn't fudge with her. So I think for a lot of.

[Whitney]

Them, like, it was their first time meeting her.

[Nick Viall]

Maybe not their first time meeting. I don't know about that, but I don't think it was like this person they've been hanging out with on the regular. On the side, and then they pretended to not know her coming.

[Whitney]

I'm just saying, like, I didn't know anything about Mom Talk. I mean, I knew Mom Talk before Secret Lives, but, like, I knew Taylor, Miranda, and Camille were, like, the originators.

[Miranda]

Sure.

[Nick Viall]

That's because, like, this all started through the scandal, which I think a lot of these women, like, the demise and the gens, weren't a part of that scandal and weren't friends. I don't. You know what I'm saying? Like, this group came together after the fact.

[Mikayla]

So was Camille not involved in the singing?

[Taylor]

She was just. It was a trio kind of.

[Whitney]

Yeah, it was Miranda, Camille, and Taylor. And then she.

[Taylor]

Yeah, because people speculated it was Camille when Taylor did that original, like, TikTok Live. But then it was like, Miranda that came out being like, those are lies.

[Whitney]

Like there was like the whole like negotiations for casting or something. And remember it was like they were talking about Miranda and Camille, like saying like, I would never do that or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Because I don't want, don't want to be on a show with Taylor.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Whitney]

But like I'm glad she's on it. Yeah.

[Mikayla]

Also the dinner at Taylor's parents house when Dakota comes, it's a tough watch.

[Whitney]

I was so mad.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Whitney]

That was hard to turn off the tv.

[Mikayla]

That was hard.

[Whitney]

What did you do? Like to allow him to come over and sleep when I was her dad.

[Mikayla]

Like calling her easy was.

[Whitney]

I was watching trauma wounds being open.

[Mikayla]

And it was also tough to like and I don't obviously know their dynamic, but to like not see her sisters or her mom be like, oh, that was a little far, honey. Maybe, maybe let's not go there.

[Whitney]

I mean, and it was also like the comparison of like, yeah, he may have cheated on you, but you let him come over to your house after the fact. And she's like, I didn't fucking know. This is why I want you to be on my side. What he did to me was fudge.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, it's. It's tough. I know. I, you know, we, we now see Taylor though, obviously defending her family in the comments. I don't want to, to like, I mean, inappropriate for sure. Tough, tough watch. Definitely would have loved Dakota to have stood up for his lady in that moment.

[Mikayla]

Anyone to stand up, but especially Dakota.

[Nick Viall]

I mean like, I mean when, you.

[Mikayla]

Know, like we watched Dakota time after Halloween party, he doesn't stand up for. I mean, he's like him and Chase are going at Taylor. Like he does not stand up for her.

[Nick Viall]

I know it is a weird moment though. I mean, we've talked about this, but when you were pregnant on Thanksgiving and that was the first time I had experienced like men in your family, man making like remarks about like her body. Your body, which wasn't meant maliciously but was the first. And it wasn't like I had to like confront them, but I made some like remarks about their comments in a like a passive aggressive way, which was weird to do but like still necessary. Right.

[Whitney]

That's not nice.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, I just remember. I just, I think it's like, what's with all the guys in this family, like commenting on pregnant women's bodies? And I kind of said that aloud and they all kind of awkwardly. Her brother was very kind and handled it appropriately after the fact. But yeah, he just Doesn't. Yeah. Dakota doesn't.

[Whitney]

It's almost like he. Like, not like he enjoys it happening to Taylor, but it's like he enjoys the support for himself. That it's just like we're being on the same side as somebody else, that it's just like he just does not have her back, no matter what.

[Nick Viall]

Which I. Listen, I. I think what we know about the Dakota and Taylor is they are antagonistic with each other. I mean, we've all been in those types of relationships where you just. You know, it's the hurt people. Hurt people, and they're constantly hurting each other, and I think they both feel like a victim of the other person. So, you know, they can't get out of. Of how they feel victimized in this relationship. You know, they can't see the forest through the trees.

[Mikayla]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

You know, I mean, and Taylor, that whole scene where she's going through the text message, like, it's like it's. It's going to be. Taylor's always so in control when she's activated. It's. I think that's why we love Taylor so much. You can tell she's triggered, but, like, she. She has this level of calmness that makes her seem so very in control. Like when she's going through the text messages or, you know, when she's confronting one of the ladies, she's just. She is. She never loses it completely until.

[Whitney]

It's. That time, I was gonna say.

[Nick Viall]

But even then, she's articulate. You know, she's. She doesn't lose her composure. So many people do.

[Whitney]

And then we cry, but it's like she's not doing anything. A step before. I can't remember what episode it was. Maybe it was Halloween, but it was like somebody was, like, narrating her confrontation, being like, she's. She's cocking her head to the side. You know what that means? Taylor's getting activated and he's. It's like these tells where. It's like she's processing. She's taking in everything. And then when she strikes, it's so beautiful.

[Nick Viall]

It is.

[Taylor]

Well, she does, like, a head nod. She's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Whitney]

Her eyes get all like.

[Layla]

She's incredible.

[Whitney]

I am reading, I am processing, and I'm about to eviscerate you.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

The best part is watching these women attempt to go after Taylor. And then she does the whole. Yeah, yeah. And they're like.

[Macy]

Have.

[Layla]

Yeah.

[Whitney]

I love you.

[Layla]

I wish I could. God, to be able to eviscerate someone like that is the coolest thing.

[Whitney]

It's a skill.

[Layla]

It's a skill. I do not have it, and I kind of wish I did. I would only use it for good.

[Nick Viall]

Is Demi trying too hard? So far, it. Yeah. From, like, did she come into the season feeling, like, a little confident about her position in mom talk as a fan favorite?

[Whitney]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Is it possible?

[Whitney]

And it's like this. The competing with Taylor, where I'm like, Taylor's just on her own tip. Like, she's really not focused on what's going on on the other girls in the other girls lives outside of herself. And then it's like, Demi is just so focused on what everyone else is doing. Fuck. Jen. Jen doesn't tell the truth. Taylor's behavior, like, it's just like, why don't you just take a. Take a beat?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. But even I don't mind the shit talking because even, like, Michaela is talking more shit this season. Jesse is louder this season. But they. They seem to be doing in a way that doesn't come across as trying to reclaim a position.

[Whitney]

That's what I was gonna say.

[Nick Viall]

You know what I'm saying?

[Whitney]

Demi's doing that thing where she's trying to have, like, secret cahoots with other people. So everyone's on the same page. When I confront this person, you're. You have my back, where Mikayla's just like, I'm not. I don't need to sit around. I could talk shit behind your back, but I also will say it straight to your face in the moment, no hesitation. I'm like, Demi is kind of, like, sneaky about it and then tries to act like it's like, oh, well, everybody feels this way. But, like, I didn't originate this thought where she did. And she's not owning that.

[Nick Viall]

But we'll. We'll hear Jesse's version of the whole contract negotiations. But they talk about it in the next batch of episodes. The way to me is just like, no, it's just like, there was just, like, a misunderstanding and, like, everything's fine now. And then when we hear Jesse's version, she's like, she did what? She said what? You know, it's two different versions.

[Whitney]

She's giving sheep in a wolf in sheep's clothing is what Demi is giving for me this season.

[Nick Viall]

It's good to watch.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Whitney]

As I said, I'm entertained. I am hooked. I have not been able to stop watching it. I'm already ready to rewatch. Watch it. I was like, I'm gonna wait for the finale I had to get through the whole thing. There was no way that I was stopping at episode nine. It was so good.

[Nick Viall]

I don't know what they all, like. Jesse and Demi's big problem with. With Jen is like, they're trying. Why? Why are they trying so hard to take out Jen?

[Whitney]

I don't know. Unless it's this whole, like, Demi Vanderpump Villa stuff. Because I was like, jen hasn't done anything.

[Taylor]

I mean, the whole, like, her talking to Zach and her being like, well, you told me that we were related to Ben Affleck. And he's like, I never said that. You made that up. And she's like, no, you told me. And he's like, I literally never said.

[Nick Viall]

But that's, like, literally Jen's biggest crime, which is, like, leaning into a silly.

[Mikayla]

No. I'm sure his family has been like, the Afflecks. Oh, yeah. Like, they're our cousin. Like, I'm sure that when they first met, it was, like, a joke, that maybe she wasn't under the impression it was a joke.

[Nick Viall]

And sweet little Mormon Jen was this, like, really? Yes.

[Layla]

I'm dating an athlete.

[Mikayla]

Yeah, we're famous.

[Nick Viall]

They didn't anticipate Jen being famous and telling the world and, like. No, no, no, no, no, no. Actually, we were just kidding.

[Mikayla]

Yeah, right?

[Whitney]

She ruined that whole family's reputation back in Provo.

[Layla]

It's kind of more charming than it is evil, though.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

I just. I feel like from what I can gather, that's kind of her biggest crime. And then maybe, you know, with the whole, like, you know, Halloween party, she didn't relay the message to Zach the best possible way.

[Whitney]

But I'm like, to be fair, where I'm just like, whatever issues they may have, like, I'm like, whatever goes on in her relationship, like, they need to work that out. But it's, like, weird that the other women are so, like, wow, Zach. Like, they didn't tell. Well, she didn't tell. Well. I communicated. And it's just like, okay. Like, I don't know. It's like. It's like, you guys are trying to ruin her relationship.

[Mikayla]

It's also like, yeah, they're trying to, like, be the middleman of their relationship and be like, well, did she tell you this? And Zach's like, well, I mean, not in. And it's like, well, what about this? Did she tell you that? And it's like, just let them be a married couple.

[Whitney]

Thank you.

[Mikayla]

And figure it out on their own.

[Taylor]

I think, like, Natalie, you nailed it. Because even I was kind of awestruck when Demi and Brett had said. Said that Jen scapegoated him for the money in Vegas when it was his money, but said it was him gambling her money.

[Mikayla]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

So it's very interesting that I think they're so quick to try to expose the fact that they think she's, like, scapegoating him for, like, being a bad person. When does it really matter? You know, we'll see.

[Nick Viall]

But we left season one hating Zach, everyone. You know, if it wasn't Whitney, Zach was maybe the biggest villain of the season. But, like, I don't like. And maybe some people will never forgive him for his hair. Haircut. Season one. Or just like some people just, like, hate his face. You know, Some people hate my face. You know, they'll never get over it. But I think there's a world where Zach might redeem himself a little bit. He seems like he's just said, I'm gonna go ahead and be a husband.

[Taylor]

Better.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

You know, he got a haircut.

[Nick Viall]

Got a haircut, quit medical school. I mean, if you say, oh, well, not because she's making money, either way, you're talking about a man who grew up in a very patriarchal society, and this is a man who's choosing his. Who's quitting his dreams to support his wives. I'm just saying, saying, like, we should acknowledge that a little bit. You know, we'll see if it's real. We'll see how long it lasts. But steps in the right direction.

[Taylor]

Yeah, Preach.

[Nick Viall]

Well, anyways, let's hear from Jesse and Mikaela first. And listen, people, you know, there's a lot in this season to break down. We're going to be talking about this show for a few weeks now. We're not the ones who chose for them to, like, drop it all at once. So, like, we will be breaking down things. If we didn't get to your favorite scene today, chances are it's in this interview with Jesse, Michael, Layla. Don't worry, we have Macy and Layla on Thursday. Reality recap. Going deeper. I will say we were supposed to have Taylor, but some drama happened between Dakota and Taylor that morning, which seems to be an ongoing thing. So they're still making their. Each other's lives miserable. Yeah, something happened late at night. You know, they were filming season three. I don't know.

[Whitney]

I was gonna say hopefully be in season three.

[Taylor]

Lots of detail.

[Mikayla]

I am pretty sure Macy gives us some insight on that on Thursday.

[Nick Viall]

So anyways, Jesse and Mikaela, we're just.

[Mikayla]

Trying to live up to the version version of us that Jeff and Steve think that we are. Obviously those are our pets. If you don't know by now, if if you don't, I don't know where you've been. But they assume that we've got it all together. Boy are they wrong. Meanwhile, we are googling can dogs eat watermelon? That was literally me yesterday with a strawberry. Can they eat strawberries? Because I did let Stevie that strawberry. Okay, great. And realizing that we're out of food and oh my God we forgot the flea meds, Chewy has both delivered fast. Now they're well fed, itch free and still think we've got it all under control. All thanks to Chewy. With over a hundred thousand products from top pet brands, Chewy makes it easy to find everything from food and treats to beds and toys, all delivered to your door in one to two days. They also carry supplies for birds, fish, reptiles and other small pets to support your pet's health. They offer prescription medications, telehealth, vet visits, pet insurance and are expanding in person vet clinics across the country. As temperature rises, so does the risk of fleas and ticks, even for indoor pets. These pests can spread through other animals, visits to the groomer or vet, and even hitch a ride on humans. Chewy carries a ride range of vet recommended flea intake medications to help protect your pet year round.

[Nick Viall]

Their customer Support is available 24,7 on the phone or chat with expert advice always on hand and with their 100 satisfaction guarantee, you can return any item within a year, no questions asked. Chewy has everything you need to keep your pet happy and healthy and right now you can save 20 on your first order and get free shipping by going to chewy.com vo v I a l l it is chewy.com v I a l l to save 20 on your first order with free shipping. Chewy.com v I a L L Minimum purchase required. New customers only. Terms and conditions apply. C Site for complete details With T Mobile no trendspotter has to deal with trendspotty service because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid cart. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card left 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days device ineligible carrier and timely redemption Required card is no cash access and expires in 6 months. Beautiful Anonymous changes each week. It defies genres and expectations. For example, our most recent episode, I talked to a woman who survived a murder attempt by her own son. But just the week before. Before that, we just talked the whole time about Star Trek. We've had other recent episodes about sexting in languages that are not your first language or what it's like to get weight loss surgery. It's unpredictable, it's real, it's honest, it's raw. Get Beautiful Anonymous wherever you listen to podcasts. Jesse. Mikayla, welcome back.

[Macy]

I'm not back in the corner this time.

[Jesse]

I know I can actually see you and hear you.

[Mikayla]

That's crazy.

[Macy]

I'm like, oh, I get, you know, first chair.

[Jesse]

I can barely hear you.

[Nick Viall]

Was that. That trauma of being in back kind.

[Macy]

Of like, brought up all my wounds from therapy about not being good enough.

[Nick Viall]

Well, I got to say, you really showed up this season.

[Macy]

Oh, really?

[Nick Viall]

Well, you are front and center of the drama. You are.

[Jesse]

You know, I heard you were stirring the pot. I mean, I haven't watched it, but in all the press, they're like, Jesse really is.

[Macy]

Someone texted me a podcast, was like, you're messy.

[Jesse]

Honestly, you are messy.

[Nick Viall]

Both of you. Oh, and this. I say this with love and a compliment to someone who, again, more than anything, just. Just a fan.

[Macy]

Okay, good.

[Nick Viall]

Simply just a fan of both you. Of the show. You both, like, found your voice through both your voice and your actions. Specifically you, Jesse.

[Macy]

Oh, yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, you. You definitely front and center. Yeah. But anyways, so, yeah. Was that trauma putting you in back there what really catapulted you?

[Macy]

Yeah, that's why I stepped it up. Season two.

[Nick Viall]

I find it fascinating that you ladies. We're recording this before the season has dropped. You ladies haven't seen. Seen it yet?

[Macy]

No, we're nervous.

[Nick Viall]

How do you. You're nervous?

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Do you. Have you fought with the producers?

[Macy]

No, I'm the favorite. So, like, I. I'm like, I never fight them. I feel like we've asked a little bit, though.

[Jesse]

Yeah, we get irritated, but also, I feel like our producers are very sarcastic like me. So if I. If I'm saying things, it's like, I'm annoying, but I'm still gonna do it. And they know that I just like to give them shit.

[Mikayla]

But it's also, I'm sure, because everyone you're talking to has seen it, and they're all like, oh, this and oh, that.

[Macy]

And so we lived it. But we have obviously how it's put together, what was cut and stuff. And so it's hard to, like, know. You guys have seen it and we have no idea what the edit is.

[Jesse]

Well, it's funny when they asked me about it because they do call you messy Jesse. Oh, we like about all the events.

[Macy]

They're like.

[Jesse]

And Chase was invited. Oh, Jesse invited him. And this person's like, oh, Jesse invited him. And we're like, interesting.

[Demi Burnett]

Whoops.

[Nick Viall]

It's just.

[Macy]

I'm too nice.

[Mikayla]

No, you aren't. Everyone involved.

[Jesse]

Jesse is a yes girl. She's too nice.

[Nick Viall]

I am so is that really. Is that what it is? You're just.

[Macy]

I have a hard time. Yeah. Saying no to people. And so I feel like I'm a people pleaser, which can be messy, but it's not.

[Nick Viall]

It's not necessarily Machiavellian in the sense where you're like, who's not here? I feel like, yeah.

[Macy]

What can I do to make this dramatic?

[Nick Viall]

It's not.

[Macy]

But, hey, it made good tv, right?

[Nick Viall]

No, no. Again, thank you. I'm just like. But I'm just curious, like the human Jesse, like, what is.

[Macy]

What is people pleasing? For sure, it's people please.

[Nick Viall]

Yes. Okay.

[Jesse]

I think even after the Halloween party, she's like, I had no idea this was gonna happen. Like, crying. I'm like, what do you mean? I told you that.

[Macy]

I told you not to invite face that well at all. I think I had met him one time. Yeah.

[Mikayla]

Friends with his girlfriend.

[Macy]

Yes, very.

[Nick Viall]

You know what? Honestly, that's a great place to start because I think I. I think a lot of fans, me included, obviously, we know that mom talk started with, like, Miranda and, and Taylor and the whole swinging scandal. And obviously we, we talk about that a lot and that gets brought up a lot. But, like, I don't feel like everyone fully knows, like, who was friends with who. Who really knew each other. Like, how close were all of you women before this all, like, really got together, mom talk wise, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, how did you all, like, how did you get brought into the group?

[Macy]

So Macy actually brought me in.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Macy]

And it's funny because in Utah, like, there's a big group of influencers and we all go to events together and like, it's like a little community. So we were all intertwined in that community.

[Nick Viall]

How many?

[Jesse]

It's like if we haven't met, you know.

[Nick Viall]

Really? Yeah, really.

[Macy]

So, like, you would go to an event and see people. So, like, Macy and I knew each other because of that I had actually done Whitney's hair for two years before the show.

[Jesse]

Jesse's mom did my hair once.

[Macy]

Yeah. Mikayla's been to my salon, so we all knew of each other together. Like, I am responsible for Whitney's ever changing hair in season one, you know, so, like, I knew Whitney.

[Nick Viall]

That was you?

[Macy]

Yeah, yeah. So I knew Whitney really well. And then Macy referred me because she just, I guess, thought I would be good because she knew of me. But there was that mom talk group that was really close for a while, but it was like, more business. Right.

[Jesse]

What year was that? Because we started pilot 2022. End of 2022. And that was me, Macy, Whitney, Taylor. Taylor. And then Taylor got arrested. We got hurt. We held off on the. On all the filming for, like, a year.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And then Demi. Oh, Demi came on the last day of filming the pilot in 2022.

[Mikayla]

Oh.

[Jesse]

So she filmed, like, one or two days just to, like, scope her out. And then we did recasting after Taylor got arrested. And that's when Jen, Jesse, Layla came.

[Macy]

And Layla was around for the original mom talk.

[Jesse]

Yeah, Layla was at the original mom talk before the swinging stuff. I think there was, like, an original mom talk for, like, a year before the swinging stuff, if I remember right. And so I had met up with, like, Miranda and Taylor, knew them for, like, a short period of time, and then the swinging stuff came out. Hung out with Miranda, like, once or twice after.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And she kind of gave me, like, her side of the swinging stuff. And then two years go by, and that's when the show we always say, though.

[Macy]

But back then, mom talk was, like, transactional, from what I've heard, like, business. Get your video done. See ya. Now it's like a real friendship.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

Do you feel like there's a group of women in Utah who maybe were involved in the original mom talk who are very bitter? Yeah.

[Macy]

Yes.

[Jesse]

Oh, I'm sure. But I'm like, I want.

[Nick Viall]

I want. I want that story.

[Macy]

I want that to be a show of its own.

[Nick Viall]

No, I want the story about all the women who are jealous and, like, it's like, I don't know, put it on, like, a less popular platform or something.

[Macy]

That would be hilarious. It got too big, though.

[Jesse]

Like, do you remember there was, like, the videos that would blow up. There were, like, literally, like, 20 girls, and they, like, all filled the free.

[Macy]

Too big.

[Jesse]

Some of them would come from, like, out of town. So they weren't all from you, Utah. So it was. It was too much. Yeah. There were, like, five People that would like come in and from out of town and then they'd leave again. But like they lived in Utah originally.

[Mikayla]

So going into the show, Jesse, you're closest with Macy.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

Michaela, you're closest with like Jesse. Macy and Jesse.

[Macy]

Well, at the beginning.

[Jesse]

Oh, going into the show, definitely Macy.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Because I was like best friends with Macy for two years before mom talk and filming.

[Nick Viall]

Wow. Okay.

[Macy]

I actually think I got closest with Jen and Layla before the show started filming though because we all went on like trips together and like we would hang out before filming started. And me, Jen and Layla were like the newbies to the group. So we kind of like stuck together because of that. But then as filming went on, I obviously got really close with Demi and now I'm closest with Michael and Macy, so. And Taylor.

[Jesse]

It changes all the time.

[Macy]

It does. You never know.

[Nick Viall]

Do you ever run into the the Housewives?

[Macy]

Yes, Brittany comes to my salon.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Macy]

Uh huh. And then I have met Whitney.

[Nick Viall]

She's singing when she walks in.

[Macy]

Yes, all the time. I love her. She's so funny and she always grabs me to do like fun tiktoks and stuff. Whitney I've met a bunch of times. There was one time when Jen Shaw was in my break room eating pizza and I was looking at my security cameras and I was like what the hell? So I like ran over to meet her. But yeah, like it through that. Yeah.

[Mikayla]

It's random.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Michaela.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Again you were amazing this season and a little messier which cuz you're so like like the first season you were just like Demir quiet.

[Jesse]

In my life.

[Nick Viall]

Unless Whitney walked in the room. One thing I just love to just push back on you just a little bit. Just a little.

[Jesse]

Watch it.

[Mikayla]

Okay.

[Jesse]

I'm like watch a man. You know.

[Nick Viall]

Listen, I'm usually not in the business of agreeing with Whitney.

[Jesse]

Okay.

[Macy]

Uh oh.

[Jesse]

But like when it comes, let's keep that going today.

[Mikayla]

Don't stop now.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

I honestly respect how much you hate her. But like the trolling tiktoks like you really like this season you really did not back down. Being like I can do whatever the fuck I want to. Which obviously you can but like you can appreciate why like that maybe that like maybe looks like you're. Yeah, you're. You're going past the point of like standing up for yourself when it comes to like I witnessed say that but.

[Jesse]

But emphasis on the but. It's just there wasn't like the dynamic of like Whitney is so innocent and everyone's ganging up on her. It was like she was feeding into this role of, like, oh, make me your villain. I'm this. Like, it was all editing. I didn't know I was like this. And so it was just. It almost made it harder to be quiet because it was like, oh, I don't remember it going that way. But yet she was still feeding into this and doing, like, the same patterns. And I think I didn't really have that drive to say as much until she brought, like, Macy into it. She was posting Macy's text messages where Macy was, like, back in her hard, blindly, almost. And I feel like that's when I got almost more defensive because I was like, she was always a shitty friend to Macy, and I always told Macy that, But it wasn't until after the show, and she was, like, throwing Macy under the bus and defending that she wasn't going to her launch by exposing their messages. And that's when I was like, all.

[Nick Viall]

Right, see, that's helpful context. Because, like, in the show, yeah, the context matters. It just looks like you're just out there waking up being like, I'm gonna troll Whitney today.

[Jesse]

Oh, are you saying in season two?

[Macy]

Yeah, like, how you guys stop being.

[Whitney]

Oh, yeah.

[Jesse]

It didn't show, like, the falling out at all with Whitney. And Whitney has, like, that very victim mindset all the time. Like I said, every time she goes into something, tell me your issues, we tell her issues, she runs away crying and saying she's the victim, we're attacking her, and it's that. And it was continued through season two. I had probably seven conversations that was the ended the exact same way of her. Like, I really want to work on this, but you're not telling me what I'm doing wrong. I was like, what about the last six conversations that I like, do I need to spell it out or, like, write a list and give it to you? Ye was just so many conversations that ended the same way. And literally everyone agrees. And with Miranda coming into the group, it was like what she would do to everyone. The new person in the group, when she's on the outs, she'd get really close. And then when it didn't serve her, she doesn't talk to Miranda anymore because she left again. So.

[Nick Viall]

Interesting. Yeah, there was a scene with. With Macy where Macy wanted some accountability from Whitney and asked her to, like, reflect. Like, do you now regret you're not coming? And Whitney did this whole thing. So, like, well, how could I be sorry if that's how I felt in that mom moment? It's like, wait, that doesn't it. That's literally the. The definition of, like, reflecting back on your actions and, like, knowing that you felt one way in one moment. And, like, now that, like, that moment has passed, like, thinking, like, she can't.

[Macy]

Admit she was wrong in her feelings.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, I just.

[Jesse]

Oh, my gosh. And it just. I could go all day just because I think it just triggers me so much.

[Nick Viall]

I don't want to because.

[Jesse]

No, it's fine. It's just, like, it's everything with. It's because we're filming, too, and I know with filming. Yeah, it's the same thing. Like, every. Everyone's like, why are you so passionate? Because I'm like, she hasn't changed. Like, even just a week ago, couldn't say she regretted going to Macy's baby shower. She told Macy she had to look up the definition of regret to say if she regretted it. I'm like, you know what regret means? And I'm like, you're an actress. Come in and act like you're sorry for season two. I don't know.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. I mean, and Whitney's literally the only one who's never been on the show. There have been several conversations with her team and us about coming on as a cast character. I'm a fan. Like, I'm just obsessed with.

[Jesse]

Well, it's entertaining, for sure.

[Nick Viall]

TikTok. I can't watch it without. It brings joy to my life. It truly does.

[Macy]

Because she's so blissfully unaware of how it comes across. It's really funny.

[Jesse]

It's funny, and it's frustrating.

[Nick Viall]

And in this season, she want, you know, she. She didn't want to. She wanted to do an interview by herself. Our response was, you're not really in it this season.

[Macy]

Ooh, good to know.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. You know, like, she definitely is much less of the villain this season from my perspective, but I.

[Macy]

Is there a different. Different villain in your perspective?

[Nick Viall]

No, it's just.

[Jesse]

Oh, no.

[Macy]

Oh, I want to hear.

[Nick Viall]

It's really just more met. I mean, like, it's really going to be, I think, fan perspective, obviously, and we'll get into it. But, like, the season ends with a lot of accusations heading your way.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And I'd love to, you know, and then you. You and you and Demi, obviously. Yeah, y' all were very critical of Jen.

[Mikayla]

Well, y' all came into season one being very close.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

And then obviously, we have now seen. Seen what's going on on social media. Y' all are not close anymore. What was the initial fallout of you and Demi's relationship.

[Macy]

Did season two touch on, like, the contract stuff?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Okay, so that was. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Which.

[Macy]

Which round? That was the first thing. It happened during the summer, actually, before season one even aired.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Macy]

We started negotiating some different contracts as a group, and she basically threw me under the bus because I didn't care to fight for more money, and she wanted an absurd amount of money.

[Nick Viall]

What did that conversation sound like?

[Jesse]

Like, it had all of us on it.

[Macy]

So we were all on a call. And keep in mind, this is a call with our lawyer and managers who represent us, so we should be able to say how we feel.

[Nick Viall]

And some of you share managers and lawyers.

[Macy]

Totally.

[Jesse]

And, like, so they'll have our couple.

[Macy]

Hundred cents in mind, and we should be able to say, like, I want this. I want this, and it can differ. Some husbands were on. I was doing a podcast virtually. So I joined the call late. When I joined the call, the first thing I heard is Brett saying, if we don't get this amount, everyone's walking. And I was like, you can't speak for me. So I said that because that's initially what I heard. So I was like, wait, wait, wait. I just want you to know, like, I'm not willing to walk. And he was pissed, and they just were so mad at me. That is the catalyst for everyone.

[Jesse]

Because then there was another call after. Because what happened before, to give it context, we were all like, no one's gonna walk. Obviously, this is what we were saying before she went on, like, no one's gonna walk, but there's power numbers. And so we're all gonna walk. And so then Jesse. Yeah, Jesse comes on, hears that, she's like, I'm not gonna walk.

[Macy]

And if I had that context, of course. Course I would have not said that.

[Jesse]

But again, it. It didn't warrant the reaction.

[Macy]

No. So then she's calling people behind the scenes, being like, well, Jesse has no morals and no values.

[Jesse]

After you was like, oh, oh.

[Macy]

And then Jesse, you're willing to walk for pennies, and none of us are. And that was gross. And just kind of, like, came at me. And then she's calling everyone behind my back, being like, well, if Jesse doesn't. Like, maybe Jesse doesn't need to be on the show, then let's get her off and we can all get more money.

[Nick Viall]

Said that.

[Jesse]

Yeah, she was saying that she had no morals, no values.

[Macy]

I'm not going to be a pawn in her hairstyle scheme.

[Nick Viall]

Well, also, like, after, we just clearly talked about, there seems to be a Line of. Of women in. In Utah.

[Macy]

Yes. Willing to do this.

[Nick Viall]

All of your places.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And I think, obviously, the show, to.

[Macy]

Be honest, Demi was a fan favorite, and it went to her head, and she's like, well, I can make more money than she did.

[Jesse]

Only say.

[Macy]

She said it a million times.

[Nick Viall]

And I think it's really important. Obviously, like, as reality TV becomes more and more prominent, it gets more and more credibility. I think you. You guys deserve. You are stars. You guys deserve to get yours. But, like, when I. I would have died the Bachelor for free.

[Macy]

Keep in mind, this is before season one aired, so I didn't know what the reaction was going to be.

[Jesse]

And they wouldn't show us, like, this. The background numbers of airing or, like, anything.

[Demi Burnett]

You don't even know if it's a hit yet.

[Jesse]

Exactly. Like, we knew that it was good because they were wanting to go in so quickly into filming season two. And, like, we knew after the numbers came out, too, that it was doing really well. But also, there was just a line of like, okay, this is absurd, and this is way too much money. Like, yes, we deserve more. But this. This is, like, it's not. It's not realistic.

[Nick Viall]

Like, they were trying to get rich.

[Macy]

In that moment without having to work. Like, she doesn't want to work like a dog. That's her words. And so she doesn't want to hustle. No, but she wants to be rich. I think that that was where it started. And then I think for me, what was hard was after that happened, I didn't know everything she said about me. But then the text messages she sent me during that were like, you need to earn my friendship back. Like, I'm very disappointed in you. Like, kind of put herself on a pedestal above me where I had to, like, beg for her love is how I feel. Felt. And then the hair drama happened. So it was just, like, one thing after another. And I just kept forgiving her. Like, I was like, I don't want to have another friendship fallout. Like, I just. It's fine. And the friendship fallout inevitably happened because I finally hit a point where after the finale where she, like, says she's gonna walk, it was like, that argument in my house. She was mad that I didn't defend her towards Taylor and that I didn't gang up on Taylor. And it was, again, I'm disappointed in you. She sent me this big, like, breakup text, and I was just like, I'm not doing this. I'm not doing this pattern where I have to beg for your love. If I'm not exactly what you want, so.

[Jesse]

Well, even in, like the conversation we had where we were like, had our little mom talk meeting and there was the blow up between Taylor and Demi. They were talking about. Because Demi was like wanting to have a huge finale for season one and so she was wanting to make up. She's like, we can make up this whole thing that, like, I have an affair with Dakota and like this. And so we were like. Everyone was like, oh, that. That's a weird thing to say.

[Macy]

No one wants to say Taylor.

[Jesse]

No, I know. Taylor brought it up in the conversation. And Demi's like, did everyone think that was weird? And everyone's like, you know, yeah, kind of. That was a little bit weir. And she was like, really, Jesse.

[Macy]

Unbelievable. Mad at me. I was like. And so it was like this, the friendship.

[Nick Viall]

I'm like, you know, I'm a fan of all you women. Right. And we've gotten to know Demi and I've really quite. I've. We've enjoyed her company.

[Macy]

She's very charming. We like.

[Jesse]

To me too. Like when our friend. Cuz I got really close to Demi and Jesse and Macy, which I was already. But like, we were getting closer to Demi and then all this started unraveling and we still gave not her the benefit of the doubt. But it was just kind of sad to see, like. Like, oh, she would do that. And then it kind of just kept progressing and so we weren't like immediately.

[Macy]

Like, okay, closed off.

[Jesse]

It just happened gradually. So it was sad for sure to see that she was willing to do all the things that she did.

[Mikayla]

Yeah. So she was willing to have the world think that she had an affair with Dakota.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Mikayla]

For television.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Or at least she threw it out there.

[Macy]

She had a whole plan.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Apparently she had a whole.

[Nick Viall]

Like, it wasn't something she Be funny.

[Macy]

We could meet in a car and then like, they could catch us.

[Jesse]

We were like a plan.

[Macy]

But also, I think it says a lot that there are seven women who feel the exact same way about her. It's not just me that had issues.

[Nick Viall]

Like, I want to ask you, and I'm not sure how much you women can. Can share. We've obviously interviewed Miranda.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

We interviewed her the morning that a lot of you were online in the comments between Marciano.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And Demetrius. Demi. Demi was here with Brett and she made some claims, some very serious claims.

[Macy]

What I'll say is victims should always be believed.

[Jesse]

I'll say that. And yeah, I think it's really hard for. Again, you have Like, I was the victim of sexual abuse, and Demi kind of takes advantage of that in the situations of, like, guilting us of, like, well, you were going through this. Like, you out of anyone should believe me.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

But also, I was there right after the villa, and I heard from her own mouth, I'm not a victim. I was playing into this. Like, I was being flirty. I was having a fun time. And that was the story from the beginning. And I was also there to kind of, like, watch everything, too. And you were there, too.

[Macy]

This is such a serious subject. None of us would ever do this if we didn't know for sure or we didn't have gut feelings and witnessed things, you know, so.

[Jesse]

No.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

I'm like, especially in my situation where, again, I went to my mom, and that wasn't believed. So it's not coming lightly that I'm, like, choosing to be hesitant.

[Nick Viall]

When we talked with Demi and Brett, it's. They certainly gave the impression that they were done with this show. Specifically Brett.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Demi seemed pretty in line with Brett. I'm. I'm sure you can't tell us. I don't even know if you know for sure what's going on contractually. But, like, I just want to know your opinions. Do you think Demi and Brett are done with the show and mom talk and see what secret lives.

[Macy]

No, because the minute she gets a taste of, like, fame and the fun stuff we're doing now, it's like, oh, wait, I want to come back. So I think it's just like, what?

[Nick Viall]

So whether she does or doesn't come.

[Macy]

Back, you think whether she leaves, whether she comes back, she'll always be back.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. Okay.

[Macy]

I mean, we met Lana Del Rey the other day, and that was an opportunity we got. And as soon as she saw that, she's, like, tagging Lana on her story. Like, let's do a redo. It's like, then why are you leaving these experiences?

[Jesse]

Yeah. I think her go to every time was, who's walking? Who's walking with me? I'm done with the show. So I'm like, right now. I don't know. I don't think it would surprise me with her coming back, because she is so back and forth in that sense, too. I just think, like, Whitney, they can't stay away.

[Nick Viall]

If she does decide to come back and is allowed back, how will you women approach her given her alleged behavior and how you women perceive her? Because it's one thing to be Whitney.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And. And not understand how to apologize or think you are as accountable as the rest of the group when maybe you might not be. And then there's everything that's going on with Demi. How will you women approach that?

[Jesse]

I think it is different for me because again, I. I go back and forth with Whitney with where I'm like, do you truly just not know? Are you, like, this calculated? Like, are you as manipulative as you seem, or do you truly just not know, Know better? With the demise stuff, it is very, very calculated and very. Again, the serious allegations and everything that she's doing with, like, the contracts, I'm like, this is. I think everyone has seen the character flaws with it, and no one want. I don't want a friend that's willing to do that to me, so. And I think everyone kind of agrees and has that same opinion with her. I think guards are definitely going to be up 100%. And I don't think. I mean, I don't see myself personally getting close again.

[Macy]

No. And I had ended my friendship with her before all of these allegations, so I already knew that was done for me. And now this has added a bigger, heavier layer. But for me, if she needs to be my co worker, that's fine. I'm not going to go out of my way to mend a friendship, do anything like that. Like, I'm for sure done, but if I have to be around her, I will. Yeah.

[Jesse]

Which.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, let's.

[Jesse]

Can we talk about how hard that is?

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Because I think people don't get that. That I'm like, there is, like, the real friendships and then there's like, the show aspect. And we are being forced against our will to hang out with these people. And it's so hard.

[Mikayla]

If someone, like, puts y' all in a photo and you're standing next to Whitney, are you like, excuse me.

[Macy]

Did you guys see the photo from the Get Real event where we're like, me and Demi are crouched down. There's like a big gap, and everyone's like, that's so telling.

[Jesse]

No, it's like the interviews where it's like, who's most likely to. And we're all like, like having a point and we're all in a group and it's like, it's so. It's hard for sure.

[Mikayla]

Well, switching gears a little bit, Jesse, you have not been wearing your wedding ring. Is there anything that you can share about your marriage?

[Macy]

I will say that reality TV is hard on any relationship, whether it's a friendship or a marriage. And we've been through a lot, and now it's going to be public, and we're working through things and we're trying our best, but things are a little tricky right now. And, you know, I'm excited to hopefully someday share more about that, but right now, it's a little bit. It's just real life, and it's hard. So, yeah, I don't really know.

[Nick Viall]

I have to ask, and I'm assuming because I think you guys are filming season three, and I know obviously we want to be conscious of spoilers, but, you know, season two ended with quite the accusation towards you and Miranda. Made it seem like you and Jordan have some real tough conversations ahead. Do you want to clear the air about, like. Like, you and Marciano and him saying you guys had an affair, or can you, like, what. What can you, if anything, clear. Clear up? Right now?

[Macy]

I can't say much, unfortunately. I wish I could, but there is just so much more to the story. And again, relationships are hard and they're nuanced, and there's so much more that I. I'm excited to share because I think people will be able to relate to my story, and I think it may help people.

[Mikayla]

Do you think that Jordan is a good role model for the men that your daughter should look for in a house?

[Macy]

Oh, my gosh. That is a loaded question. Question? No, I think that there's been a lot that's happened, and I think that he and I are both willing to work on things and change, but maybe he should be asked that question because that might wake him up. But, no, I think there's a lot of things that have needed to change.

[Nick Viall]

I've heard some things about him, and I was really disappointed to hear. Yeah, I hope they're not true. Clearly, you can't tell me, but your answer to Nali, I think, is revealing, and I'd love the opportunity to talk with him about some of the things I have heard if they end up being true, because it's really quite sad and disappointing. But I am. I am looking forward to getting to the bottom of that.

[Macy]

I will say one thing about me is I. I feel like, unlike Whitney, I'm really good at taking accountability and I own my shit. And I am excited to someday tell the full story and, you know, fall on my sword and take accountability for certain things, but also open up a bigger conversation that I think needs to happen.

[Nick Viall]

I wanted to ask you guys about Jen.

[Demi Burnett]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

A lot this season when you and Demi were still close, a lot of your focus and attention and criticism was towards Jen. Yeah, obviously, we know that. That Jen left the show and took a mental health absence and is. Is pregnant. So I want to be respectful of that. It's my opinion, watching the show, that while Jen may embellish, maybe it's like. And there's like the people who just, like, want to fit in, want to people, please get caught up in the moment. And I'm not saying it's okay. Clearly there needs to be correcting. But that's my. That's my.

[Macy]

Jen's harmless.

[Nick Viall]

That's my opinion. That's my opinion of Jen is that she's more or less harmless.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Do you, looking back, regret any of your behavior towards Jen? Because it was pretty harsh.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And I'm not blaming you for anything because there's a lot going on in Jen's life, specifically her relationship with Zach and the pregnancy, and just, you know, probably a lot we don't know.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

But how do you feel about your behavior with Jen and do you think it was ever influenced by Demi?

[Macy]

Great question. So, again, I can take accountability. And I was harsh, for sure. I think I was hearing a lot of things that I was. Was just shocked by. And then Jen was so MIA from the group that it was a lot of jumping to conclusions because she wasn't giving us answers. So I think that's where a lot of it began. And then also, Demi was on a mission at the time to make Jen seem like a liar because Jen knew more about the situation in Italy. So Jen was starting to expose that and say things. And so I think Demi was 10 steps ahead and was like, oh, I need to discredit her now. And if I can discredit her through this avenue and this avenue, it will make her look like a liar all around. So I do think there was a little bit of that. But again, I take accountability that I went hard on Jen on my own accord. And I was very frustrated by all of the lies building up and then Zach himself telling us, like, that's a lie. Like, she didn't say that. I was like, what? So I think I was honestly getting caught up in the drama of it all. And looking back now, I'm like, okay, I was probably a little hard on her thoughts.

[Nick Viall]

Agree, disagree.

[Jesse]

I don't know what's going to be shown. I mean, I lived it. And I'm like, I don't know what I should say. I'm trying to tread very lightly.

[Nick Viall]

Say your truth, and we'll make sure you're protected in the back end.

[Mikayla]

What are your thoughts and feelings on Jen?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

I mean, the. The little white lies. I had friends in school. Like, that.

[Nick Viall]

No, like, the friend who, like, had a dad who, like, worked in China and, like, had a mansion. I had a sleepover once with a guy who had all the baseball cards.

[Jesse]

Like, it's amazing.

[Nick Viall]

And I was like, when can I see him? He's like, no, they're like. They're. Oh, they're not this house. They're in our house in Hawaii.

[Jesse]

I mean, I don't get it.

[Macy]

Yeah, that happens. That was Jen, probably.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Like I said, like, it is so hard. It's so much filming. Like, we do so much filming. It's so many hours. And so, again, it's hard not to be frustrated when people aren't showing up. And then on the back end, they're, like, trying to ruin your life or make up lies to ruin your life. I feel like it's so frustrating. And then just, like, those little weird lies about, like, Ben Affleck and, like, things like that. I'm like, oh, I think we can.

[Macy]

Never get my straight answer. That's. I think what's frustrating is we can never get a clear answer.

[Jesse]

It's very fresh. I just did more press, and it's like. Like not doubling down, tripling down, quadrupling down. And I'm like. I just. I'm trying to keep my mouth shut.

[Demi Burnett]

Because I don't know what.

[Nick Viall]

Like, it's like I want to give her a pass, but even when she owns up to it, she's, like, talking in circles. She just. She kind of leans into how unserious she is.

[Macy]

Yes.

[Jesse]

Yes.

[Nick Viall]

But it's so. It's like, if, you know, you're, you know, it's like, how. How innocent are you? I have not.

[Macy]

I haven't figured out the opposite. Where he's, like, very serious. Yeah. Very serious. So it's really funny. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Speaking. Speaking of Zach, I. You know, he was. If. If. If Whitney was villain number one, he was villain number two, season one. And at least from what I saw, season two. I'm not saying he completely redeemed himself, and I'm not saying he's, like, a completely changed man, but I saw a lot of growth, and I. I saw a lot of at least intention to.

[Macy]

Like, we didn't see him try to.

[Nick Viall]

Be a better person, at least. At least for his.

[Jesse]

Back to my media training column.

[Mikayla]

Like, what was I supposed to say again?

[Nick Viall]

And I'm just wondering if. If. If what I saw is what you all witnessed.

[Macy]

So the weird. I don't know. Okay. So the weird thing is we didn't see Zach a ton. I think I saw him at my talk with him and then the Halloween party. So a lot of their stuff was like, probably alone. And so I can't speak to that. But I will say I know he was trying and he was working on things and I'm proud for that.

[Nick Viall]

I would say his one on one stuff with Jen if, If, if season one look like Zach was a deadbeat husband who never really gave a shit about his wife's emotional wellbeing, health, anything. All of the above. He really seemed like a present husband who more than anything wanted to be there for his wife. That was. And I was, I was. I was really impressed and I was. I appreciated that. Again, I'm sure he has a long.

[Macy]

Way to go, but everyone deserves a second chance to, like, undo their wrongs.

[Mikayla]

Mikayla, who is your favorite husband? You cannot say. Say Jacob.

[Macy]

Oh. Oh, damn. She knows.

[Jesse]

How many. Who's even. I'm like. Who's like, how many husbands are there? That's kind of.

[Macy]

I think I know who you're gonna say and it's kind of funny.

[Jesse]

Who is it? Oh, Connor. I love Connor.

[Macy]

Connor's the.

[Jesse]

Everyone loves Connor. Like, he's so. He is so great and so logical. Yeah, I think he's like Whitney's right side of her brain, truly, like he is.

[Macy]

So he keeps her grounded. He does.

[Jesse]

He's very. And he's just so. He's not very. He's emotional, but not in his. He doesn't like, act out of emotions. He's just very caring and he's logical and just.

[Mikayla]

Yeah, he's great.

[Nick Viall]

Do you think he, He. He sees what you see in Whitney?

[Jesse]

Probably. I think everyone sees it. I just think he handles it with more grace and compassion because he's married to her. I wouldn't want to piss her off if I had to live with her.

[Mikayla]

Mikayla, how is your health these days?

[Jesse]

It's doing great.

[Mikayla]

You look beautiful. You look.

[Jesse]

Yeah, it's. It's been a lot better. I think the less I've done, the better it's gotten, which is really ironic because I really put my heart and soul into it for like years and years and years with no progress. So.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, I'm like the pregnancy in some ways. I mean, my mom had 11 kids and my mom also had some. A variety of different health struggles and there seemed to be time. Maybe it was just. Just, you know, the belief in something.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

But it really seemed like sometimes her pregnancies was almost a. Something that healed her.

[Jesse]

And yeah, it totally is a thing. Like, I've looked up a lot of that with, like, autoimmune stuff. I don't know what was going on with my health issues. I still never got answers of what was going on. But I've heard, like, people with eczema and all this stuff, they get pregnant and it goes away. So I was like, very strong. I'm like, hopefully this baby heals me. Which people had an issue with that for reason.

[Nick Viall]

Some.

[Jesse]

Some reason.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Demi Burnett]

Did you see it?

[Nick Viall]

I don't so much for that.

[Jesse]

Yeah. They're like, that's so much. So much heat to put on a baby. I was like, okay.

[Nick Viall]

It's like, you would think that when it comes to pregnancy and women, there.

[Macy]

Would be a lot of grace.

[Nick Viall]

Grace and unity and. And. But it really seems that people are, are, are whatever they, you know, do. Do not give an opinion that it doesn't align with someone else online. You will hear about it.

[Demi Burnett]

Yes.

[Jesse]

But no, I do think pregnancy has helped a lot. And then again, like I said, working through training, trauma, I've been learning a lot through, like, how trauma stored in your body and, like, unraveling all that. And I think, yeah, I've seen the most healing in the last nine months to a year. Just going to therapy. Yeah. And honestly, not on medication. Yeah. Healing the Internet from the inside out.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

That's what I've been telling Jesse, too. I'm like, you need to.

[Macy]

She's like, that's.

[Jesse]

Work on yourself.

[Macy]

Exactly. I'm like, okay, I'll take a lesson out of her book.

[Mikayla]

We do have a fun little game we want to play. It's some. Oh, yeah. Some superlatives. Some Mormon wives.

[Nick Viall]

Mormon wives superlatives.

[Mikayla]

Obviously you haven't seen the show, but also about your.

[Macy]

Just our life.

[Mikayla]

Yeah. Your genuine opinion of these people.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, it's now time for Mormon wife superlatives.

[Mikayla]

Oh, my God.

[Nick Viall]

Okay. Don't text your ex Happy birthday.

[Macy]

Yeah. There you go. Sponsored by.

[Mikayla]

Okay. Most toxic couple.

[Macy]

Oh, God.

[Jesse]

In the group.

[Nick Viall]

One at a time.

[Mikayla]

Take it away.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, I do have a question for you about them. You can? Yes. Do you hope they get back together?

[Macy]

No, not as of right now.

[Jesse]

Ever. I just think. I think ever. Never ever.

[Macy]

Yeah. I love them both as people. Like, I think they're both amazing people. I think together, they just can't. They're in a toxic cycle that will just never happen. End.

[Jesse]

And we see too much.

[Macy]

Yeah, we know.

[Jesse]

I've seen too Much. Heard too much.

[Mikayla]

Okay, who is most.

[Macy]

Wait, you didn't answer.

[Mikayla]

Oh, yeah.

[Jesse]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Taylor. Okay, sure. I don't even think that.

[Mikayla]

Okay, who is most likely to beauty filter their photos?

[Jesse]

Oh, Demi.

[Macy]

Yeah. Demi always has a filter.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Who's most likely to sneak in a fart and blame someone else?

[Macy]

Whitney. Yes.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

She would never take accountability for that fart.

[Mikayla]

Most likely to have lied this season.

[Nick Viall]

Most likely to win an Oscar.

[Demi Burnett]

No.

[Macy]

Say what you said about her. Remember when and for the second time in a row, her award for her leading role.

[Jesse]

Her leading role as the victim. Second season in a row.

[Macy]

But let's not hype her going on there that much.

[Nick Viall]

Best dressed.

[Jesse]

Ooh, Probably Jesse or Layla or Marie. Miranda.

[Macy]

I was gonna say Miranda or Layla.

[Nick Viall]

Worst dress.

[Macy]

Whitney.

[Jesse]

Probably me or Taylor.

[Macy]

Not you.

[Jesse]

Well, are we talking season two?

[Macy]

I'm talking in real life.

[Mikayla]

Yeah. Like, when you see him at the grocery store. You see him at a coffee shop.

[Jesse]

I'm pretty grungy. What?

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

What do you mean?

[Macy]

Just a bra with a blazer over it. I was like, I love that. It's the nicest thing you buy.

[Nick Viall]

Person who thinks they're a good cook.

[Mikayla]

Cook.

[Nick Viall]

But isn't probably Jesse. Just kidding.

[Jesse]

No, I think, you know, you were.

[Macy]

At my house, and I hadn't even turned.

[Jesse]

She lived in her house for, like, six months. I was like, how do you turn your oven on? She's like, I've never used it. I was like, okay, it's giving Carrie.

[Mikayla]

Brad job.

[Jesse]

No.

[Macy]

Actually getting doordash.

[Nick Viall]

What do you think?

[Jesse]

No, I'm going to say Taylor.

[Mikayla]

I.

[Macy]

Me, probably. Yeah. Yeah.

[Mikayla]

Who is most likely to get canceled?

[Macy]

Ooh. Oh, Taylor. Yeah. Taylor. Just because she's so, like, I don't give a fudge. Like, she's so controversial at times, but also people love her. Her audience loves her.

[Jesse]

So.

[Macy]

Because she doesn't give a. Yeah, exactly. They can see through it, so. Or like, they see the, like, genuine.

[Nick Viall]

Do you think Taylor is the. Is the one who really doesn't give the. In the most authentic way of the group.

[Jesse]

Yeah, I think everyone doesn't. But I think I just keep going back to the CMA post when she was like, it was just Penny.

[Mikayla]

I don't care.

[Macy]

I don't care.

[Jesse]

We're like.

[Macy]

But honestly, she owned it. So it's like, how do you stay mad at her? Yeah, but I was talking to her. Her the other day about hate and how she deals with it, and she's like. I go like this.

[Jesse]

I'm like, oh, okay.

[Macy]

Like, she is herself most likely to.

[Nick Viall]

Steal a baby name. Ooh.

[Mikayla]

Especially with.

[Macy]

With this going on. Imagine you guys, like, still the same baby name. I don't know why I want to say Jen.

[Jesse]

I want to say, oh, no, I could. Yeah, I see that.

[Mikayla]

Don't know why. Have y' all share. Is that. Have y' all shared, like, names? You're thinking zero names.

[Macy]

And same with Macy.

[Jesse]

Send me all your ideas. Zero names.

[Macy]

No, we were joking with Jen. We're like, you should name your baby Ben.

[Jesse]

Yeah, I was like Ben, literally.

[Mikayla]

Wait, what are. What are your other two names?

[Jesse]

For my two, I have three. Beckham, Haven, and Tommy. So I have my little girl Tommy and Haven, and then Beckham's my one.

[Nick Viall]

Boy most likely to pick their nose in public.

[Macy]

Whitney.

[Mikayla]

Yeah, I think that's it on superlatives.

[Jesse]

We kind of.

[Mikayla]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

That was quick. Oh, my gosh. That was funny.

[Nick Viall]

Well, ladies, thank you for coming by. Good luck. Hopefully season three. Hopefully I'll. I'll see you soon. Everyone watching if you haven't already, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives is now streaming on Hulu. All 10 episodes.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, I think it's an absolute doozy. Jesse, good luck.

[Macy]

I know there's a lot I'm going into hiding, but thank you.

[Nick Viall]

And yeah, I want to be respectful to you, but I feel like I'm not doing my job pulling it out of you, but I feel like they're doing. There's more to come. Circle back. Michaela, it's so great to see you. So great to see you doing so well. Congratulations with the baby. Everything that's going on in your life. Really so happy for. For you and Jace. And yeah, thanks for stopping by. And I can't wait to see you guys more in the future.

[Mikayla]

Going to be perfect.

[Nick Viall]

Thanks for listening. Thank you to our guest, Chloe Veach, Michaela and Jesse from Secret Lives of Mormon wives. Don't forget it is streaming now. All episodes on Hulu. Chat it out. We'll see you back tomorrow. For a boy a a just a dark, crazy episode of going deeper from Michelle, formerly Michelle Lolly of the Valley, talking about her ex husband Jesse Lolly. That is tomorrow and it's. It's very lifetime movie. See you then. Foreign is brought to you by progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing a budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from progressive you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Prices and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. Marketing is. But I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host and endorsements, or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.