E938 - Mayci And Layla, Secret Lives Of Mormon Wives And The Valley Deep Dive

Summary

The Viall Files: Episode E938 - Mayci And Layla, Secret Lives Of Mormon Wives And The Valley Deep Dive

Release Date: May 22, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode E938 of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall, along with co-hosts Natalie Joy and members of the Household, dives deep into the intricate world of reality television, particularly focusing on the latest developments in "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives." Joined by special guests Macy and Leila, the episode offers a comprehensive analysis of the show's second season, exploring its dramatic twists, character dynamics, and the broader implications within the Mormon community. Additionally, personal narratives around relationships, IVF, and pregnancy add depth to the discussion, making it a multifaceted exploration of love, life, and television drama.

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1. Reality TV Release Strategies and Their Impact

Timestamp: [03:00 - 05:00]

The episode opens with a discussion on the release strategies of reality TV shows. Nick voices his thoughts on the conventional batch release method used by platforms like Hulu, lamenting that releasing all episodes at once can dilute individual storylines and hinder in-depth coverage. He states, “It creates a pressure cooker... It might perform better if they batched it out a little bit more” ([04:10]).

Adelie echoes this sentiment, comparing it to "Love is Blind" and expressing a preference for staggered releases that maintain viewer engagement over time. Whitney adds, “I think binging is dead... it creates more opportunities for online community talk” ([06:07]).

Quote Highlight:

Nick Viall [04:10]: “It creates a pressure cooker... It might perform better if they batched it out a little bit more.”

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2. Deep Dive into "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives" Season 2

Timestamp: [05:00 - 35:00]

Macy and Leila provide an in-depth analysis of the second season, highlighting its darker themes compared to the first. They discuss the escalating drama and the introduction of troubling storylines that have left fans polarized.

a. Accusations Against Jesse Lally

A significant portion of the discussion centers around recent accusations against Jesse Lally. Nick shares, “This is a man who just goes out of his way to try to emotionally torture the mother of his child” ([10:36]). The hosts and guests express concern over Jesse's behavior, labeling him a "gaslighter" and debating his influence on the show's dynamics.

Quote Highlight:

Nick Viall [10:36]: “This is a man who just goes out of his way to try to emotionally torture the mother of his child.”

b. Cast Members' Reactions: Macy and Leila's Perspectives

Macy reveals her personal experiences and observations, noting how the behavior of cast members like Demi and Jesse has shifted relationships within the group. She states, “I saw that they maybe are getting the C word paused. Okay. The P word” ([09:50]), indicating speculations about potential cancellations or major changes in the show's future.

c. Dynamics Among Cast Members

The conversation delves into the toxic relationships portrayed on the show. Adelie and Jesse discuss the manipulative behaviors of certain cast members, particularly focusing on Whitney and her interactions with Demi. Jesse mentions, “He was very love bombing at the beginning of our relationship” ([86:07]), reflecting on how early behaviors set the stage for ongoing drama.

Quote Highlight:

Jesse [86:07]: “He was very love bombing at the beginning of our relationship.”

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3. Personal Narratives: IVF, Pregnancy, and Relationship Insights

Timestamp: [31:00 - 52:00]

Nick and Macy share heartfelt personal stories about IVF and pregnancy. Macy opens up about her challenges with IVF, stating, “the most amazing miracles come from it” ([56:57]), while Nick discusses the emotional and physical toll of the process, emphasizing the importance of support from a partner.

a. Supporting Each Other Through IVF

Macy highlights the critical role her husband, Jacob, played during her IVF journey: “He woke me up with like breakfast in bed” ([59:34]). This support system has been pivotal in her emotional well-being, especially during the stressful times of multiple IVF attempts.

b. Navigating Relationships Amidst Reality TV Drama

The episode also touches on the complexities of maintaining healthy relationships while being in the public eye. Nick reflects on his own marriage, praising his wife’s support: “I do feel lucky to have married someone who I, I really value her opinion” ([13:22]).

Quote Highlight:

Macy [56:57]: “It is an amazing thing. So for me to, despite all the negatives, it is like 100% worth it. And I'm so, so like, grateful for like the process.”

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4. Conflicts and Resolutions Within the Cast

Timestamp: [35:00 - 50:00]

The discussion highlights the ongoing conflicts between cast members, particularly focusing on the strained relationships stemming from accusations and misunderstandings. Jesse expresses frustration over Demi's actions, stating, “I was just like, what makes me think that she's not going to go and try to do this to me?” ([63:45]).

a. The Fallout of Accusations

Macy and Jesse delve into how accusations have reshaped friendships and alliances within the group. Macy shares her disillusionment with Whitney, explaining, “We're not like close friends by any means” ([73:17]), while Jesse emphasizes the lack of accountability from Demi.

b. Potential for Redemption and Reconciliation

Despite the tensions, there are moments of hope for reconciliation. Jesse mentions, “If she’s able to, like, take accountability... I’d be willing to hear her out” ([94:17]), suggesting that open communication could mend some fractured relationships.

Quote Highlight:

Jesse [94:17]: “If she’s able to, like, take accountability... I’d be willing to hear her out.”

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5. Relationship Insights: Supportive vs. Toxic Dynamics

Timestamp: [70:00 - 85:00]

The episode delves into the broader theme of supportive versus toxic relationships, drawing from personal experiences and observations of reality TV couples.

a. Supportive Relationships

Macy praises her husband Jacob for his unwavering support: “I feel like Jacob knows that. Like, he is so supportive in my situation” ([80:54]).

b. Toxic Relationships

Contrastingly, the hosts critique toxic behaviors observed on screen, particularly focusing on Dakota's manipulative tendencies: “Why would you start a fight right before she leaves” ([72:42]).

Quote Highlight:

Macy [72:42]: “Why would you start a fight right before she leaves. Like, even if you were mad at her, something was going on.”

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6. Empowerment and Personal Growth

Timestamp: [85:00 - 97:00]

Leila and Macy discuss how participating in reality TV has empowered them, fostering personal growth despite the surrounding drama.

a. Finding Confidence

Jesse shares how the show has boosted her confidence, enabling her to leave an abusive relationship: “The show came into the picture, and I was like, wait, like, there's a chance that I could do this on my own” ([90:19]).

b. Addressing Taboos

The conversation also touches on breaking taboos related to intimacy and personal well-being, as Jesse opens up about overcoming shame and embracing self-discovery: “...I was ashamed to kind of, like, get to know myself and know what would help me have an orgasm” ([61:24]).

Quote Highlight:

Jesse [61:24]: “...I was ashamed to kind of, like, get to know myself and know what would help me have an orgasm.”

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7. Interactive Segment: Mormon Superlatives Game

Timestamp: [94:50 - 98:00]

In a light-hearted departure from the intense discussions, the hosts engage Macy and Leila in a fun game of "Mormon Superlatives," where they nominate peers for humorous titles such as "most delusional" and "most likely to steal a baby's name." This segment provides comic relief and showcases the camaraderie and playful banter among the participants.

Notable Moments:

• Most Delusional: Macy and Jesse unanimously nominate Whitney.
• Most Likely to Win an Oscar: Whitney is highlighted for her acting skills.

Quote Highlight:

Jesse [95:57]: “She's a damn good actress. So, Whitney.”

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Conclusion

Episode E938 of The Viall Files offers a compelling blend of reality TV analysis, personal storytelling, and candid discussions about relationships and personal growth. Through Macy and Leila's insightful contributions, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the complexities within "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives" and the broader themes of support, toxicity, and empowerment in both on-screen and real-life relationships. By skillfully balancing drama with genuine personal narratives, the episode delivers a rich and engaging experience for fans of dating, relationships, and reality television.

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Notable Quotes:

1. Nick Viall [04:10]: “It creates a pressure cooker... It might perform better if they batched it out a little bit more.”
2. Nick Viall [10:36]: “This is a man who just goes out of his way to try to emotionally torture the mother of his child.”
3. Macy [56:57]: “It is an amazing thing. So for me to, despite all the negatives, it is like 100% worth it. And I'm so, so like, grateful for like the process.”
4. Jesse [86:07]: “He was very love bombing at the beginning of our relationship.”
5. Jesse [94:17]: “If she’s able to, like, take accountability... I’d be willing to hear her out.”
6. Macy [72:42]: “Why would you start a fight right before she leaves. Like, even if you were mad at her, something was going on.”
7. Jesse [61:24]: “...I was ashamed to kind of, like, get to know myself and know what would help me have an orgasm.”

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Final Notes

This summary captures the essence of Episode E938, highlighting the key discussions, insights, and personal anecdotes that make The Viall Files a must-listen for enthusiasts of dating, relationships, and reality TV. Whether you're tuning in to gain relationship wisdom or stay updated on pop culture, this episode promises a blend of laughter, deep insights, and the latest gossip to keep you engaged.

Transcript

[Nick Viall]

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[Adelie]

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[Nick Viall]

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[Adelie]

Also say it is I like love you Helix but also it's so annoying that they're so comfortable and such a great mattress because I do want to like get in bed and like chit chat with Nick but he's immediately, he's immediately asleep. As soon as you get in the bed he's immediately rocked out and and honestly I understand because Helix has a unique lineup of 20 mattresses so you can find the right mattress for you. If you're a side sleeper, back sleeper, stomach sleeper, head sleeper, fetal position sleeper. All you have to do is take a quick online quiz to be paired with the mattress for you. It is recommended by multiple leading chiropractors and doctors of sleep medicine as a go to solution for improving your sleep. Also recommended by Nick and Adelie.

[Nick Viall]

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[Adelie]

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[Macy]

You're crazy.

[Nick Viall]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files reality recap edition. I hope everyone is having a happy Thursday because we are. We have a lot to get into. It's another jam packed episode. More of the wise of Secret Lives of Mormon wives are with us this episode. Macy and Leila join us for another jam packed interview these ladies are giving. We love them. We are grateful for their truth and honesty. I don't know what you all are thinking about this season so far. I mean, it's all out. I don't know. You know, I need to. I need to talk to Rob Mills.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And what do you need to talk to Rob knows about?

[Nick Viall]

I honestly, I genuinely want to ask him. I don't know if he gives a shit about my opinion. I did see. I saw like, like some kind of tick tock. It was like from a journalist and they were like, please, whoever, Hulu, like, please don't, don't release these all at once. I'm wondering if how fans. I honestly wish they would do like selfishly, I wish they would roll it out. Not all at once. It's like harder to cover, you know.

[Adelie]

Yeah. I kind of like how Love is blind. Does it? Yeah, like it's like three episodes at once or something.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, yeah. Like three acts, you know, Give me the first third, like the setup.

[Adelie]

Leave me on the edge of my seat.

[Leila]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adelie]

Make me sweat for the next week.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Whitney]

Think about the press.

[Nick Viall]

But that's what that like this some journalist was like, think about us.

[Jesse]

Yeah, but.

[Nick Viall]

And I don't necessarily expect Rob Mills who's in, in charge of Hulu. I am curious how they decide that and what makes them decide that. You know, like Apple seems to do like a weekly drop with their like scripted shows and things like that, you know, Love is Blind on Netflix has, you know, they do the whole like batches.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

They dropped all of Mormon wives all at once like last time.

[Adelie]

I think a lot of people probably binge. I feel like like a week, you know, like they dropped it Thursday. I feel like over the weekend people were kind of cranking it out, but.

[Nick Viall]

I would, I would art with this journalist, whoever I bet there are, you know. But it does give the opportunity for, you know, shows like ours and the media to, to create more buzz. Right. And I think create that excitement it get. It allows people to focus on various storylines. Like, honestly, like season two is jam packed with so many fucking storylines. Like, I think they lose out on fans like focusing on the whole like Chippendales of it all and like breaking that down, you know, like we did on Tuesday's episode of Reality Recap. If you want to go back there and we debate, you know, whether, you know, did Chase. Did Demi exaggerate? Did Demi not exaggerate? Like, I don't know verdicts, you know, it's not clear, you know what I'm saying? So it's kind of, it's harder to do. Like I think things fall through the cracks.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

And I think it creates a pressure cooker. I don't know. I think it would perform a little bit better if they batched it out a little bit more.

[Whitney]

I think binging is dead. I think it's so much.

[Nick Viall]

Well, it's like that mean.

[Whitney]

Well, I think it's like when you binge something, you watch it all at once and then you forget everything. But when you have like a weekly schedule or I, I love like a multi episode premiere. You know, like give me, give me like two or three episodes at the premiere. And then once a week you have something to look forward to during your week.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Whitney]

And then you can talk about it with your friends. And it like creates commute way more like of an online community talk because.

[Adelie]

Everyone'S on the same page.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Zach]

No, that's actually so true. I was texting with my friend about it and she was like that scene where da da and I go. I haven't gotten there yet.

[Adelie]

Yeah, exactly. Don't ruin it for me.

[Nick Viall]

Thank you. Right, so they should go three three, three three three three, three three one. Three one.

[Zach]

The finale. Yeah. 3331. Math.

[Nick Viall]

Pay attention.

[Whitney]

How we cover it and then match what we do.

[Adelie]

Everybody.

[Zach]

Rob Mills, sir.

[Nick Viall]

Well, I hope they. I hope they. I'm going to try. I'm going to try to convince them and if they make any changes I'm going to take all the credit, as you should, to change how they do this season three, because I can tell you right now, I. We have had the opportunity to speak with many of the ladies and people who make the show and people who work for Hulu, and every single person has been like, season two is nothing, guys. This is. This is amateur hour. Season three is an absolute clusterfuck of a season.

[Zach]

Didn't they just start filming?

[Adelie]

I think they're, like, almost done.

[Nick Viall]

I think they're almost done.

[Adelie]

Season three.

[Whitney]

Oh, my God, they're working.

[Zach]

That's what I'm saying.

[Nick Viall]

We ran into them at the Hulu's Get Real event. They were filming there, you know.

[Macy]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

We were kind of, like, doing a scene with them. We didn't know we were. We were just saying hi to the ladies and there. And we're like, oh, my God, you guys are. There's a boom mic in front of us, like, oh, shit. Releases. So we will not be on it. Thank God. And then I hosted the.

[Adelie]

What?

[Nick Viall]

I said, well, we didn't sign our releases, so I think we're fine. And then I hosted the premiere. They did a panel last week. They were filming there. They were filming at Stagecoach. My understanding is that the reason they just keep filming is because, like, they are constantly giving. There is this constantly internal drama with this group in their relationships, with their friendships. It is nonstop. And in every single person I've talked to, whether it's part of the cast or crew, they just can't shut up about just how fucking crazy season three is. And that's, like, off to the heels of season two.

[Zach]

Wait, that's actually insane. I'm like, is there a possibility that we could get another season this year? Or, like, would it be, like, the top of next year?

[Nick Viall]

I don't know. I believe. I don't know. I don't know for sure.

[Adelie]

I bet it would be, like, this fall.

[Nick Viall]

I believe it's this fall. I believe. Don't quote me on this.

[Adelie]

A spring season, a fall season that's feeling on trend.

[Whitney]

It feels Mormon, but it's like the.

[Nick Viall]

Old things are certainly subject to change. I don't know, But I hope if they do, I hope they batch it out a little bit.

[Zach]

Yeah, well, they're the gift that keeps on giving. It's like Love island, but different. You know what I mean? Like, it's like you just. You're always going to be on my tv, and that makes me excited.

[Whitney]

They also know how to, like, use other platforms very well in the way I feel like Bravo's kind of catching up to that. But the wives, they know, they're like, they're making the talks, they're going on the podcast. They're like, they're fighting, ratiating all of it into this one beautiful cataclysm. That's not what cataclysm means.

[Adelie]

I honestly don't even think that they could stop if they were forced to stop. Like, the production was like, ladies, stop.

[Nick Viall]

I talked to one of the producers who, like, needs a break.

[Adelie]

They're tired.

[Nick Viall]

And, and, and the ladies were like, kind of need a break too. And they were like, listen, when you guys stop fighting, we'll take a break.

[Zach]

So please, so please stop fighting.

[Adelie]

Turn off your phones and stay home.

[Nick Viall]

Literally.

[Adelie]

We do. Jam packed episode. We've got Macy and Leila.

[Nick Viall]

Macy and Leila. We will be breaking down the Valley as well. If you haven't listened to episodes going deeper with Michelle, I mean, also, I just want to say you're welcome, Valley, because I know your ratings have not been the best. There's been a lot of speculation.

[Adelie]

I saw that they maybe are getting the C word paused. Okay. The P word.

[Macy]

The C word, cancel.

[Nick Viall]

Alex Baskin did put all that to silence. Yeah, he put that to bat.

[Adelie]

He did.

[Nick Viall]

It's just insiders who could be anybody saying this, so.

[Adelie]

Well, what did Alex, what did Mr. Baskin say?

[Nick Viall]

He said there's no truth to any of this, but the ratings aren't great.

[Zach]

And they went up for the last episode. But I think episode three was.

[Nick Viall]

It's an excellent show.

[Adelie]

Listen, I can understand people not wanting to, like, support Jax and Jesse's behavior.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Well, if you haven't listened to Michelle's episode, I think this, it's giving very, like Dirty John. It's giving Lifetime Married to a Monster. I. I don't think I'm being hyperbolic when I like, with listening to Michelle talk about how.

[Adelie]

I mean, she agreed with you. So I don't think you're being. If you were being hyperbolic, she would have been like, well, I don't know if I'd go that far. But she was like, yeah, no, but.

[Nick Viall]

This is a man who just goes out of his way to try to emotionally torture the mother of his child. And he's been doing this from the time being. And I don't, I'm not one to diagnose. I don't know. I'm not one to. It's not, I'm not diagnosed, you know, but for me to say. But I don't know if that's not emotionally abusive. I don't, I don't know what it is.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Because that sounds like torture. And when someone just constantly gaslights and hangs things over your head and like that's, that's gaslighting.

[Adelie]

I think we learned with that interview with Michelle. We learned a lot about what Michelle was going through in her day to day life that Jesse knew about was going on. And he, it like, didn't stop him from treating her the way he was treating her on national television. Which says a lot for me, that she had to take the things that Jesse was saying to her back to her family and be like, this is what I'm dealing with right now. And like, it's, there's, it's brutal.

[Nick Viall]

It's. It's a sad situation. Which honestly made me, I was thinking this week, you know, I was, I asked Natalie's advice on something.

[Zach]

What is that?

[Nick Viall]

Doesn't matter.

[Whitney]

We are not privy to that information.

[Adelie]

I'm like, what was it?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, no, but it kind of like, it was more, it just was more like, you know, it's kind of crazy when you marry someone.

[Adelie]

I love where this is going.

[Zach]

Like, it's gonna go up.

[Nick Viall]

You think, okay, I'll see. Hold on.

[Zach]

I've gone big.

[Nick Viall]

No, but like, it's one of those things you kind of take for granted that like when you marry someone, you know, depending on what you do for a living, you know, or what you're, what goes on in your life. But obviously, you know, often people get married, have kids together, that the stakes are high when it comes to kids. The hope is that you're, you're with someone that like, you can run by things that like you, you give a. About their opinion, then you can be like, hey, what do you think about that? And then like, they say something, you go, okay, thank you.

[Zach]

You know, like, no, they have your best interest.

[Nick Viall]

They have your best interest in men, that you respect their opinion in that. Or even at a minimum, like, you know, listen, I'm. If I were a lawyer, I'm not. And let's say, you know, maybe it might be harder for me to like ask Natalie about like legal advice or something, but at a minimum, just married to.

[Adelie]

I feel like I watched enough of the Karen retrial.

[Nick Viall]

That's true.

[Adelie]

Sound advice.

[Zach]

I object.

[Nick Viall]

But just like, even at a minimum, just knowing that you have the ability to make your partner feel confident about the decisions they're making.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

For me, you know, I don't know. I ultimately ask Natalie questions. Not. No pressure that have like million dollar ramifications.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And I'm like, I feel pretty good about asking her opinion.

[Whitney]

Million dollar opinion.

[Zach]

She clearly doesn't know the risk when she's answering these questions.

[Nick Viall]

Like what I'm like.

[Adelie]

But it says like all right.

[Nick Viall]

No, but like I, it's. I, I, you know, I, I do, I do feel lucky to have married someone who I, I really value her opinion.

[Adelie]

I have a good head on my shoulders. I know a thing or two.

[Nick Viall]

Well, I think you also, you, you, you know people. I think you read people pretty well and like you're, you're instinctual when it comes to, you know, you know, because I think a lot of, lot of decisions are based off about like how, how are people going to respond to this? You know, how do you think this situation would play out? I don't know. I do feel very lucky to be married to someone who's opinion. I, you know, like, I don't know. You didn't really, you don't really know those things when before you, you know, and like you date them and yeah. You get married or whatever. But like, and then once you're in it, you have kids together and you're, you know, like after talking to someone like Michelle, who everything changed when she got pregnant. Her words.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

You know that feeling and the knowing that so many people like, again, if you're out there and if you relate to this go listen to Michelle episode, you will feel it's a sad story. You might feel less alone while on this trip. Yeah, sure. We can get in the Valley. Janet really is the worst.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Justin.

[Nick Viall]

Janet, if you're out there, if you're listening, if you, if you feel like we have you wrong, please come on sit down. Come on in. Come on down.

[Whitney]

I'm always down to scooch.

[Zach]

Justin, Justin, Justin, Justin. Is Jenna still a crowd favorite?

[Nick Viall]

All I said was last season she.

[Macy]

Had a lot of fans.

[Nick Viall]

Did she?

[Jesse]

She did.

[Macy]

You can literally search on the Internet.

[Nick Viall]

She had a lot of people loving.

[Macy]

Her until the season finale where she.

[Nick Viall]

Like, well, listen, there are a lot of Karens out there and they need.

[Whitney]

They need representation matters.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, they need representation.

[Adelie]

That comment at the table with Nia. The rest of them when they're like trying to.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Adelie]

Be like, we're so sorry for the way we handle this. And Janet being like. And like, he's kind of similar to a guy I was Marri who like drugs and alcohol. It's like kind of the same thing. Huh.

[Whitney]

And like, I don't even. I'm not. I'm certainly not Danny's biggest fan, but, like, and.

[Jesse]

And girl.

[Nick Viall]

And yes, if he was in a closet doing polls at Tequila, that is weird. But you do not get to diagnose and compare them to someone you know to be an addict who's abusive. You. You don't get to make that leap.

[Zach]

Right?

[Adelie]

Also, like, in the way Danny explained it on Watch what Happens Live, he was like, I went into there to grab a white claw. I see the tequila right there. I'm like, man, sure, I'll do a shot.

[Nick Viall]

Still aggressive.

[Adelie]

But Janet made it so, like, dark and sneaky and shady and, like, oh, my God. He was, like, hiding from Nia and didn't want anyone to see him. And he was chugging and chugging and chugging and drank the whole handle.

[Nick Viall]

And it's all based off of, like, her having a problem with them being considered the happy, healthy couple.

[Zach]

100%. It's jealousy. When she said, my husband has never once hid in a cupboard chugging tequila, making people uncomfortable. I, like, really wanted to, like, jump through the TV for Nia. I can't imagine. Imagine how that would feel. Like you're not a friend, first of all. And second of all, they did the same thing again where Nia leaves the table, and then they.

[Adelie]

Jasmine immediately, like, I can't do the tears. Huh? Say that when she's crying, like, with friends.

[Jordan]

Like, she apologized. She apologized for talking about her behind her back. And then the second she leaves again, she does it all over again and talks about her behind her back. That pissed me off so much.

[Adelie]

Also, she's crying like. Like reliving some trauma from her childhood. She's not crying because, like, she wants.

[Zach]

You to feel sorry for her.

[Adelie]

It's like, guys, I was homeless with my mom, and, like, this crazy shit happened, and that crazy shit happened. And Jasmine being like, you can't do the tears, honestly, like, it's just really big.

[Nick Viall]

I think Jasmine's trying too hard to get airtime.

[Zach]

I kind of do, too, because it was. It's just over performative and, like, mean. I mean, it's very mean. Girly to the nicest person on the cast, literally.

[Nick Viall]

Do we. Do we take back what we said last week about Nia and Danny not being made for the show? I only say that because, well, I think we made good points. I really, honestly, like, I. I appreciate the representation of a couple that is like, hey, we're not here to, like, spill every, like, thing. And if you don't want Us, fine. But, like, we're just not gonna do that. We're not gonna sell out. And I know this is an unpopular take, and, you know, and I appreciate her backstory about her very sad childhood. And good for her for making a life for herself and doing. Having all these incredible accomplishments in adulthood that started with her being fucking homeless and living out of a fucking car. And, like, that's fucking. That's starting literally from the bottom, you know? And, like, God forbid, she wants to protect the things that matter and she's not willing to sell out her family. Like, so many of these cast members are for fucking airtime.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Which leads me to my next hot T, which I know will be unpopular. I kind of have no fucking empathy for Britney, and I'm kind of over it, and I don't think she deserves the Ariana treatment.

[Adelie]

What happened this episode that made you think that?

[Nick Viall]

It's this kind of accumulation. We. In case you guys haven't heard it, we are recapping on Vile Follows plus Vanderpump. We are in season five right now. It's six. Okay. And we.

[Miranda]

It's.

[Nick Viall]

It's fucking brutal. I mean, it's just honestly, going back and recapping it is like watching the Valley all over again. I mean, like, how many. Just how many chances? Like, it's like, Jax is so terrible to Britney, and it's. It's. She. It's like she's being warned over and over every day. It's. She's just making a choice. She's monetizing Jax's bad behavior.

[Adelie]

It does also feel like. And obviously this is just a show, but it feels like Jax treats her this way constantly. Like, I feel like a lot of people in these types of relationships will be like, when it's good, it is damn good. And the 10% that it's bad, it's bad. But, like, that 90%, boy. And it feels like there's not even the 90%. You know, it's just, like. It's just always bad.

[Zach]

And even in that fight that they were having at the beginning that carried on from last episode, it's like, Zach made a really good point where he was like, how many times have you lied to protect Jax? And you're coming at Nia? But regardless, Nia's fine to admit that her husband had too much to drink, but he's also tired. Two things can be true. You're upset because you think that they're not sharing the deepest, darkest, dirtiest secrets. But I'm like, not everybody has the relationship you have with Jax.

[Adelie]

Right.

[Zach]

Where it's constant trauma to expose.

[Whitney]

Also, it's like Britney and Jax's relationship was built being on an extremely toxic television show together. And like, that is their relationship dynamic where I feel like Danny and Nia, like, literally, like, they obviously had a life together before the Valley started, so they have something to protect. Whereas I think Britney and Jax were so like, that was their relationship.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, it's. It's more. I've. We've witnessed Britney monetizing Jack's bad behavior for how many years now?

[Zach]

Now.

[Nick Viall]

So it's as hard for me to.

[Adelie]

Go in there, do it. Jax and her, fine.

[Nick Viall]

But, like, we hate Jacks.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And it's just like, I don't know. Like, I'm so. Honestly, if they got rid of Britney and Jax from the Valley, if I could replace one couple, it would be Britney and Jacks. Because it just. I'm. It's not new. It's the same. There's nothing new to say. There's nothing new to recap growth.

[Adelie]

There's. Yeah, there's no arc. There's. Yeah, there's no growth. There's no arc. There's no. Like, with Kristen, I texted her this the other day. I'm like, it's so lovely to see this version of you. You are such a good, loyal friend. And it really shows throughout this. Even, like, her sitting at the table this episode and being like, if anyone has anything negative to say about Nia, like, they're gonna have to go through me first. It just really shows, like, the growth that crazy Kristen has had. And like, yeah, Jackson, Britney don't have that. It's like the still the same games they've been playing for the last 10 years. And like, at some point we've gotta stop. And clearly a divorce, like, isn't stopping any of it. Because the fact that he's in this mental institute and like, still rage texts her, still blows her up and she has not blocked him is the craziest thing to me. It's like, maybe he wants updates on this. Like, the nanny can. Can give him updates on cruise and send photos and be like, here's what he's doing today. You don't have to do that, Brittany. He does not deserve access to you anymore. But her being like, no, I can't help it. I'm obsessed with responding and reading. Like, it's just. Yeah, it is.

[Whitney]

It's her storyline.

[Nick Viall]

Ooh, storyline. I. I just. It's hard to give a shit about her plight anymore. And it's not going to change.

[Zach]

Just kind of like do something different at this point.

[Nick Viall]

And honestly, I. I'm kind of uncomfortable watching him at this point. You know, it's like, take care of your kid, you know, it's gotten a little dark.

[Zach]

Luke shopping for engagement rings for Kristen.

[Adelie]

Yeah, that was sweet, her being like, don't go over ten grand or I'll.

[Zach]

Chop his balls off. And then he still went over ten grand.

[Whitney]

Then a Ky Chan cameo.

[Nick Viall]

So is that what it's all about? You guys give us rules to break because if we break them, that prove our love?

[Zach]

No, I just thought it was really cute that it was like something that he like said, but he was like, well, this one's 14.

[Adelie]

I feel like Kyle Chan was probably like, dude, I don't really have anything ten grand in here, but I have this fourteen thousand dollar ring that she would love. Like, I feel like that's how Kyle Chan works.

[Zach]

But even his like numbers, he's like, this is like a 7.9 carat. And I was like, excuse me.

[Adelie]

Even Danny being like, isn't it cut?

[Nick Viall]

Am I wrong? Did he get the.

[Jesse]

Did.

[Nick Viall]

Did he get the Cs? Wrong?

[Zach]

No.

[Nick Viall]

Isn't it color, cut, clarity, Carrot Color, cut? I don't think it's carrot. What?

[Adelie]

Carrot. Wait, color, cut, clarity.

[Nick Viall]

I think it's color, cut, clarity, actually.

[Jesse]

Oh.

[Adelie]

Because carrot's spelled with the K. Either way.

[Zach]

For gold. For gold. It's like either way.

[Nick Viall]

I'm pretty sure he got it wrong.

[Jordan]

It's four Cs.

[Nick Viall]

I think it's.

[Adelie]

What are the three Cs?

[Jordan]

Clarity and carrot. Carrot is spelled with a C. Oh.

[Zach]

But then why does it say 24 like K or 14K?

[Nick Viall]

Well, he didn't seem very confident. He forgot color. I fucking knew that.

[Whitney]

That carrot with a C. Of course.

[Nick Viall]

That doesn't say much about me.

[Adelie]

Multiple times. Yeah, yeah.

[Whitney]

I have no clue what you're talking about.

[Zach]

Oh, C for carrot. For C refers to weight of gemstones and carrot with a K refers to purity of gold.

[Nick Viall]

Gold.

[Adelie]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Because it's like, how many carrots is your goal?

[Zach]

But yes, we got another Kyle Chan cameo. That man will be on every spin off off of the Vanderpump Rules family. Can we talk about his marriage counselor turned personal therapist? Fire God scream into this pillow.

[Adelie]

If my therapist ever asked me to, I'd be like, that's the only solution you have to fix my problems.

[Whitney]

Giving some dumbass metaphor.

[Adelie]

200 bucks an hour for this. I can do this at home.

[Whitney]

He said water Your flowers, not your.

[Jordan]

Poison ivy to do when I was five.

[Zach]

But it's like. Also, that was like his spin on the. Like, you have two wolves inside of you to feed. He's like, are you watering your flowers or your poison ivy? And I'm like, wait, what, girl?

[Nick Viall]

I just want to know when he got Chris Daughtry to be a therapist.

[Adelie]

Honestly, that's where. Chris Daughtry. That's where he went.

[Zach]

I've been wondering.

[Adelie]

I've been looking for him. Truly.

[Nick Viall]

I mean. I mean, obviously probably not even a real therapist, but, like, he should be embarrassed of his client on tv. Where's the accountability? Where. How do you. You know, hey, you're a bad husband.

[Zach]

Or, like, what was he saying about his triggers?

[Nick Viall]

It was like, that's just projecting. When he was like. It was just like, you're lying, Jesse. Like, and I'm not trying to downplay, like, yeah. I mean, Michelle cheated on Jesse. I don't know, but I wouldn't.

[Whitney]

You.

[Nick Viall]

Like a kiss? Kiss after. After a kiss?

[Macy]

We do not.

[Nick Viall]

I'm not a kiss.

[Zach]

Yeah. Like, relax.

[Nick Viall]

There's just a lot of marriages out there that have dealt with some. Some heavy. And it's just the.

[Adelie]

Jesse treats her is like, as if she has had. Honestly, it's worse than that. Like, it's like. I try to compare it to, like, her, like, having this whole secret family, but, like, he treats her worse than if she had a secret family. Yeah.

[Whitney]

He treats her like she literally killed someone in his family.

[Adelie]

It's, like, bizarre. It's really bizarre.

[Whitney]

It's.

[Zach]

And then it's like his evil plan is working. Aaron's telling Michelle this episode that, like, if this continues on with Jesse, which I also think is fair, that he can't really do this anymore. And I'm like, if I were dealing with some. Somebody that diabolical on a regular, and, like, I can't hit this person. I can't do anything about it. Because it's the father of your child. Like, what. What are we doing here? Because he's terrorizing them.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

He's the definition of a gaslighter. For all the people who have misused and watered down the true meaning of the word gaslighter, Jesse Lally is here to save you. Because now you can call him a gaslighter and be right. Because he. That's what he's trying to do. He's trying to. He's trying to poke holes in her. He's trying to drive her crazy. He's trying to, like.

[Zach]

And make her look like she's the crazy one. His interviews, he's like, trying to be like, Michelle has all of this anger and resentment, and I have no idea where it comes from, because I'm just a good man trying to be a good dad.

[Jordan]

It's a very difficult position for her to be in, too, because it's either accept the fact that he's, you know, going around and talking about her character and then also, like, trying not to say anything about him because he is.

[Adelie]

The father of her daughter.

[Jordan]

And she will see this. And so it's a very tough spot to be in to. Like, how do you navigate that? I mean, that's really.

[Adelie]

I have to say, if I am the daughter, I would love to see my mom talk some about my dad. If he did this, if, like, if he was calling my mom those awful names, Like, I would be like, mom, if you don't fight back, if you don't, like, stand up for yourself. And, like, I would want to see that side of my mom, not just like, one who's like, I just. I'm not gonna say anything to person protect my daughter. I'd be like, speak up. You know, be like, call him a. Literally call out him for having some gay man send him money. Do it.

[Nick Viall]

Well, Jesse, if you are listening and you object to anything Michelle or we said about you, please, come on.

[Adelie]

He. He's not going to.

[Jordan]

I don't want him. I don't want him.

[Nick Viall]

I do.

[Whitney]

I'm gonna be. I'll be sick that day.

[Macy]

But that's my day.

[Jesse]

For Janet, it'll be a one.

[Nick Viall]

I'll handle it by myself. I got this, guys. I. You guys can have the day off.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Adelie]

Thank you.

[Macy]

Okay.

[Jordan]

It'll just be Nick in the room.

[Adelie]

Spring is here and summer is around the corner. With sweatpants season finally over, thankfully, it's time to swap those winter sweats for outfits that turn heads. I'm always looking for ways.

[Nick Viall]

Thank God.

[Adelie]

As we all know, Nick is not a fan of sweatpants or pajama pants in the slightest. But with Daily Look, I don't receive any of those in my box because they keep you looking great. With Daily look, you get your own dedicated personal stylist to create a box of clothes based on your body shape preferences and lifestyle style. This is not an algorithm. It's a real personal stylist. And you get the same stylist every single time. So they really learn what you like, what you don't like, what colors you like on you, and what styles you like. On you. It means you can try up to 12 premium pieces per box in the comfort of your own home, saving you time and effort. You don't have to share that mirror like in some of those stores. You know what I'm saying? And get and get y' all. You all know I hate an opinion of an outsider. Well, you don't get that when you're at home trying on clothes. Besides your husband of course.

[Nick Viall]

Well, and I gotta say and they really know Natalie style now. He's a very picky. She has great fashion sense. The box shows up. Natalie is in a fantastic mood.

[Adelie]

It is so nice because it is so simple. You fill out their style quiz including your price and lifestyle preferences. You get up to 12 hand selected items delivered to your home and then you buy what you love and send back the rest. And Daily look offers free shipping both ways. It is that easy. It's time to get your own personal stylist with Daily look. How to daily look.com to take your style quiz and use code V I a l l 50 for 50 off your first order. Once again, that's Daily Look.com for 50 off. And make sure you use our promo code Vile50 so they know we sent you one last time time DailyLook.com promo code V I a l l 50.

[Nick Viall]

Well, we don't have cats of our.

[Adelie]

Own and I do really want.

[Nick Viall]

That's mostly my my fault.

[Adelie]

But now that Pretty Litter is a thing.

[Nick Viall]

Honestly, Natalie has not showed up about getting a new cat.

[Adelie]

Anyone who has a cat, Pretty Litter is for you. I know Nick's reason for us not getting a cat is because he's like, oh, the smell of the litter box. I can't do it. We can't change it. Well, Pretty Litter makes it so easy because it controls odors and it's low dust, non toxic, pet safe and household friendly. Pretty Litter also helps monitor your cat's health, detecting abnormalities in your cat's urine by testing acidity and alkalinity levels and showing the visible presence of blood. And Pretty Litter gives peace of mind. It changes color to indicate early signs of potential illnesses in your cat like urinary tract infections, kidney issues and more. The best part is you won't have to go out in the cold and lug huge tubs from the store to your car and then to your house because it ships right to your door.

[Nick Viall]

Mary, Mary, Mary or owner of George Michael. Can we get the Pretty Litter experience?

[Whitney]

Oh my God. With Pretty Litter. George Michael. Listen, if anything ever happened to my cat George Michael. I don't know what I do.

[Adelie]

I.

[Whitney]

Before I started using pretty litter, I used to, like, literally go to sleep at night, and I would. I couldn't sleep because I was in.

[Adelie]

A world of unknowns.

[Whitney]

I. I would just, like, look. I would wake up and look at him all the time, be like, oh, my God. Especially because he's a boy cat. And they're like, more like their pee can get. If they're not hydrated, it can get rocky in there. And literally. Yeah, they can literally get kidney stone, like, little, like, crystallized. Yeah, they get crystallized urine, and they can pee blood, and they have to get their. Like, it. It's a whole procedure.

[Adelie]

And typical. And with a typical, typical litter box, you just disappear.

[Whitney]

And then with pretty litter, I don't even have to worry. Pretty, you're like, oh, my God.

[Nick Viall]

It's.

[Adelie]

It's literally a paint palette in there. It is.

[Whitney]

I can always tell. And the stress immediately went away. And I can sleep soundly knowing that George Michael is safe with his pretty litter, and I get to just enjoy my beautiful time with him right now.

[Nick Viall]

Save 20 on your first order and get a free cat toy at prettylitter.com cat v I a l l that is Pretty Litter.com v I a l l to save 20% on your first order and get a FREE cat toy. Pretty Litter.com v I A l l Pretty Litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. C site for details.

[Adelie]

Should we get into four, five, and six of Mormon wives?

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, and then we'll get to Leila and Macy. Lot happened. What happened? I can't even keep up. What? Well, well, the. The big story line is we finally get. Talk about. Well, we also had. Just in case you guys didn't know, in case you're living under a rock, we had Jesse and Michaela on Tuesday's episode Reality recap. We got into this story with Michaela and Jesse. Well, obviously heard Jesse's point of view, who's front and center of this story. It's been tough. This decision's been tough, I think, for.

[Zach]

Nally and I going back and forth with, like, the story Again.

[Nick Viall]

I. I just. As an objective fan, I really think it's hypocritical for us to enjoy watching these shows without at least acknowledging, regardless if we like these people or not or what we think of them as humans, to, like, recognize that, like, they are doing this for Our benefit. And, like, you know, like, I just. There's something to be said about that with the Mormon wives specifically. We've really gotten to know these women, and I've enjoyed on an individual level getting to know all these women.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And now that we, you know, season one was great. It was heavy. But, like, compared to, like, season two. Season two is a lot darker.

[Zach]

Season one, we're talking about Fruity Pebbles.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Adelie]

And there's just like, like, and it was like, who's head of Mom Talk?

[Nick Viall]

Will it survive?

[Whitney]

Will Mom Talk survive?

[Adelie]

This is like real sides being chosen and real, like, friendships being broken and like, yeah.

[Nick Viall]

These storylines about Demi going on and we're getting into a territory that's. It's uncomfortable because I Demise is. It's. She's getting harder to defend as a fan and as someone we, as we've gotten to know personally. It's. It's been a challenge.

[Zach]

I was going to say even that conversation on the contract or like, that Jesse sits on a hair empire. So, like, Demi says that she should step out of the show or something.

[Nick Viall]

Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, after hearing Jesse talk about it on Tuesday, you know, and then watching it now in the episode, boy, to me, really, her versions of these events are. Are very, like, watered down. Right. And the way she seems to justify, like, why do you deserve more money? To me, just because Jesse has found success outside of this show that you deem yourself both a fan favorite and therefore. And.

[Zach]

And that was wild.

[Nick Viall]

And then is making less money outside of Mom Talk and the show that you think you're more entitled to more money, I mean, that's. That's quite the choice.

[Zach]

And Taylor read her to filth with that. She was just like, I. You would not be here if it's not for me. And I've never done that.

[Macy]

Oh, my God.

[Nick Viall]

When Layla tried to have Demi's back, and she goes, when I'm done talking. When I'm done talking. And then she talks and she goes, all right, now go. Was.

[Jesse]

Was.

[Whitney]

That was awesome.

[Adelie]

Truly. Taylor's so badass.

[Whitney]

They're all professionals, but she is like. She's like Leon the professional.

[Nick Viall]

Well, how many times do you hear people saying, I'm just so bad at conflict. I just don't. Like, I just. I'm so bad at conflict. And, like, she is the I'm bad at conflict hero.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Zach]

She's like, let me show you how to do it. Here's the playbook. When I'm done talking, all Right now.

[Nick Viall]

Go. And then the fact that she, like, had, like, the awareness to. Didn't be like, no, I. I promised you could talk after I got talking, and now the floor is yours.

[Jordan]

And then Layla was speechless.

[Adelie]

Just, like, I will say at Macy's, like, book reveal, dinner, whatever. Demi's face the whole time. I. Maybe that's editing, you know, but no.

[Zach]

Because they were talking while at the same time, and her face was just like, I could not be happy for.

[Adelie]

You if I tried. It was. Yeah, she was definitely, like, it seemed not happy for Macy's at all, which, you know, I guess.

[Zach]

And also, I mean, not trying to come forward to me, but it was like, also watching these three episodes, her coming for Jen so hard. While Jen's going through all of this tough time, like, I'm just like, she's trying to repair her relationship with Zach. She's finding out she's pregnant in the midst of it all. She's not coming on this trip.

[Adelie]

And it's just to defend to me. I don't think any of the women are aware of. Of what's really going on.

[Whitney]

Yeah, Whitney's the one that tells them. And obviously they all have issues with.

[Adelie]

Whitney, and Whitney doesn't even really tell them in a way that's like, makes it feel important. Yeah, Whitney's like, jen. Jen's sick. She's super sick. On the bus. She says that to all of them. And then they get to the house, and Macy's like, so question of the weekend, like, where's Jen? She's like, so she's pregnant and sick. It's like, well, there's actually a lot more to that is wanted to share, but I think that's what Jen wanted.

[Jordan]

What Jen wanted. She told Whitney because Whitney was like, what do you want me. I actually thought Whitney was being a really good friend. Like, she stayed with Jen. She was like, I don't feel comfortable leaving until Zach gets back. She helped clean her house a little bit. And then she was like, what do you want me to say to the women? And then Jen told her, just say that I'm sick and pregnant, because Totally.

[Adelie]

But then she sat there and allowed the women to kind of, like, come at her as she's pregnant and being like, oh, my God, a band aid baby. A band aid baby. And she could have been like, all right, guys, a little too far. I don't feel like y' all know enough of the scenario to, like, talk about Jy this way. Maybe, like, have a conversation with her.

[Nick Viall]

That is a crazy thing to say.

[Whitney]

The Band Aid baby about a child.

[Nick Viall]

First of all, someone's existence.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Nick Viall]

You're immediately saying that they're not even.

[Zach]

Watching, putting a negative connotation on their birth.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

That's a crazy thing to say.

[Adelie]

I'll be honest. That was like, maybe it's just been the season of life I'm in. But like, that Jen finding out she was pregnant and that reaction was definitely a tough watch.

[Whitney]

Yeah.

[Adelie]

For me personally, as someone who has been very much vocal about how much I would love to have a baby. And maybe it was just the season of life I'm in where it was very emotional for me. And maybe once I'm a little bit further away from this, I would be able to step back and see, you know, Jen as obviously her own person who goes through her own things and she's not in a great place in her marriage and she doesn't feel like she's great mentally to be welcoming a baby and like the pre partum depression, postpartum depression. Like all that's real. Like, that's a real conversation. Obviously.

[Macy]

Obviously.

[Adelie]

Jumping to Summer House, like, I understand Amanda being like. I'm like, just got my mental health. Okay. I'm not looking to like, that's a. It's a hormone roller coaster. So I understand Jen's feelings. It definitely was like a hard watch for me.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, it's.

[Adelie]

But just. I just wish like, these women were more understanding. Like, this is a baby at the end of the day and she's pregnant and they've all had children.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Adelie]

They all know what it's like. And for all of this, him including Whitney, because she didn't have Jin's back in that moment to sit there and kind of like not be happy for her in the slightest, but like, kind of talk shit was yucky to see.

[Nick Viall]

Not kind of. And then, you know, Whitney's seemingly on her like, redemption tour, and then you come to find out it's all calculated. She's just deliberately being quiet and then trying to get other women to fight Jesse into me.

[Whitney]

For her to, like, be so honest about that though too, is kind of like awesome to see.

[Nick Viall]

Is a fan of the show. Yeah, she's one of my favorites.

[Whitney]

I'm kind of a Whitney Stan.

[Macy]

You guys.

[Nick Viall]

You guys have might have noticed that Whitney is the only one of the member of Mom Talk who has not been on this show. It is not without constant communication from her team.

[Jesse]

Please.

[Nick Viall]

She's a prickly one. First we invited her on with the rest of the Ladies, last season, I don't know, it was a lot of back and forth. I don't know. We finally were just like, we're not going to do it. We moved on. It was just too much heavy lifting for her. Demand fans. And then she wanted a solo appearance of which we weren't willing to give her. And then she had. She. She's the only one in the group who demanded she see all the episodes so that she could talk about them. And we were just like, you're just too much work. So we. We moved on. Maybe we'll have her on the future. I'm still a fan. Still just love the.

[Adelie]

I'm afraid of anyone who slaps a table when arguing. You know, like that conversation with Michaela where Michaela was calm as can be, and she's like, listen, you don't hold yourself accountable. And she slaps the table and raises her voice.

[Jesse]

Sisterhood.

[Macy]

Sisterhood. Sisterhood.

[Whitney]

Sisterhood.

[Nick Viall]

I really think that Mikayla has found her voice through hating Whitney.

[Zach]

Michaela is my favorite.

[Adelie]

She's so good.

[Zach]

I had a feeling about her last season. Loved her in between seasons. This season, she is shining. She's just, like, saying it like it is. She's just like, I can be in a group setting with you. I have no interest in a friendship with you. And, like, with Whitney cannot handle it. She's like, why won't you just be fake and say you'll be my friend?

[Whitney]

She's like, I'm not co workers, and that's fine. And that's all we're ever gonna be.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, she hates her so much.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And it is petty.

[Zach]

No.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Zach]

The round table with the gold box. And she's just like, will you ever be friends with Whitney? And she's like, no.

[Jesse]

No.

[Nick Viall]

What was her response when she goes, it's not doing it for me. When Whitney. What did Whitney say or do? Or. Whitney asked a question. And Michaela goes, no, no, no, no.

[Adelie]

It was the twerking competition on the. On the bus where she. Whitney's like, I'm win. And she's like, all right, go. And she starts twerking. And Michaela goes, it's not doing it for me.

[Whitney]

She like, I. I love a hater.

[Adelie]

Not them putting Michaela's torque in slow mo. I was like, period.

[Whitney]

She's, you know, Demi has a lot of thoughts about being the fan favorite, but I think she might be usurped this season by Michaela.

[Zach]

And can I also give Zach his flowers for a second? Oh, I was gonna ask yeah, he's. He's starting to win me over the conversation. Even though, like, I didn't love his reaction to the whole Chippendales thing, but then seeing how he, like, came to the guys and was just like, I just want to have a respectful conversation and just try to, like, let you know that this is how I feel. I look up to you. Like, he's just so well articulated, and, like, I don't know. I just don't know why. Like, I thought he was such a monster last season and this season.

[Nick Viall]

I was gonna ask, do we. We, as crazy as it sounds, do we think that Zach is, like, he. He seems like he is trying to do better, and he seems like he is acknowledging his mistakes, and he is trying to show up as a husband for his wife, for his kids. He quit medical school. You can say what you want, that maybe he's. Oh, because his wife's making money, Fine. But how many people out there, like, complain that their. Their husband's emasculated by their wife's success? And again, again, maybe it's all an act. I don't know. He seems like he is trying to be better. I'm kind of, like, impressed he's handling.

[Zach]

Himself so well, too, because every time he tries to sit down and have an honest conversation with somebody, someone's like, well, your wife didn't communicate to you. Well, your wife is lying to you. And he's like, okay, well, I have to trust what my wife says.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. Always has her back.

[Zach]

Yeah. He's not sitting here being like, okay, well, if you say so, then fuck her. Like, he's like, all right, well, that's something that I have to communicate with my wife then, because that's not what I was being what I was told.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, I kind of.

[Adelie]

I'm.

[Nick Viall]

I. I have kind of no notes for Zach this season. I've been pretty impressed, and I give him a lot of credit for the growth we're seeing. I. You know, I'm. I've been.

[Adelie]

And I definitely, like, if I'm Zach, I also am, like, not a fan of the Chippendale's dance. Like, I don't need my, like, husband agreed that we're not even that close with, like, half naked dancing on you in the middle of a party of a bunch of people we don't know.

[Zach]

To call it exposure therapy.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Adelie]

Like, nah, I'm good.

[Zach]

Just let him in on the joke.

[Adelie]

Right? Like, yeah. It doesn't have to be a surprise.

[Zach]

That's not a. That's not A surprise.

[Adelie]

That's not a surprise at all.

[Zach]

That's an ambush.

[Adelie]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

In the flashback, like Demi and Jesse or whoever was telling Jen about the plan, like, it definitely was different than how it ended up being. Like they literally had Jen sitting directly next to Zach. Zach. And then they were like, grinding on her. And I agree with Zach when he says that what they did was, in my opinion, worse than what happened with Chad and Demi.

[Adelie]

Chase.

[Jordan]

Chase.

[Adelie]

Sorry, with.

[Jordan]

Same thing to me with Chase and Demi.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, like, I Chase. He might have grazed her.

[Zach]

He might have even given a little pat.

[Adelie]

I think it was like a hip. Yeah, like a hip that, like, definitely was uncalled for.

[Nick Viall]

It was inappropriate.

[Adelie]

It was definitely inappropriate. Yeah. It was like, haha, go check your man.

[Jordan]

Yeah, where's your husband?

[Adelie]

To be like, funny and cute and swaggy and it wasn't any of the above. And honestly, if I am Demi, I am also being like, let me get my fucking husband on your ass, bitch. So I see where she's coming from in that aspect because if it was like one of the other husbands, I'd be like, okay, chill. But it's like an ex husband causing drama, fighting with like, yelling at Taylor in the middle of this party. Like, this man's gross. So the fact that she called her husband to like, come get them, I wasn't too mad about. But I do. Like, yeah, Zach has a great point of being like, how dare you? Like, how is that different? You didn't have my consent for that. You didn't have Jen's consent for that shit.

[Jordan]

Like, the only difference is that you made me watch.

[Adelie]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Adelie]

And also I will say, if I were Jen, would I have come home from that hair appointment being like, Zach, the girls told me they have some idea at Halloween for some Chippendales thing. I don't know what it is. I don't know the extent they mentioned some sort of Chippendales dancer and Brett and Jordan. And Jordan, like dancing or something. I don't know.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. My read on Jen is, you know, like she's as flawed as any other human and. And maybe she fibs here or there, but it seems to be the most un.

[Zach]

Malicious, no ill intent.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, just I think I. And I kind of feel she's like, she's.

[Zach]

She's an embellisher.

[Nick Viall]

And I feel like Jesse and Demi, when it relates to their rivalry with. With Jen, I just, I feel like they, at least in this moment, in this season, are more confident in their voice, are more Confident in themselves. I think they see a less confident person, a wounded. And it kind of feels a little icky the way they're kind of kicking.

[Whitney]

Her when she's down and.

[Nick Viall]

And. And like, is. Is she not totally upfront or honest? Honest. I don't know. But that being said, Jen did find her voice when bringing up Vanderpump Villa. And we'll. You know, we do have the Macy and Layla interview coming up. They do get into. Not necessarily the details of what happened, but they. It's. They better articulate their beliefs, I guess, on. On what might come out in episode three or, you know, a lot of the conversations in this episode, like this accusation that Brett was unfaithful to. To me.

[Zach]

And this is just some sort of rumor that came out of nowhere.

[Adelie]

This is her. Macy's confession. Sinners Anonymous.

[Zach]

It's reality TV gold is the anonymous tips, though. Is this like an Instagram thing or was last season. Remember the gold box?

[Nick Viall]

It's a producer going on Reddit and putting in rumors in the. No, this is.

[Jesse]

No, this is Macy's Sunday Sinners or Sinners for Sundays.

[Nick Viall]

They had to last season when Taylor the Dakota rumor came from a Sunday center thing.

[Adelie]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Well, that seems how they get this. This seems like a clever way of inserting rumors into the TV show.

[Adelie]

I'll also say I didn't love the lunch with the three of them with Taylor, Macy and Michaela, where Macy's like, oh, I got this confession on my sinner Sundays. And Taylor goes, oh, is it about me? And she goes, well, there. There's a lot that are always about you. Like, that was unnecessary.

[Zach]

These girls are flat. Like strays are flying on a regular.

[Adelie]

I don't know if I'd say that to my friend. Like, sure, let me give you some anxiety. Yeah. I get a shit ton of, like, confessions about your life in my Sinner Sunday.

[Zach]

Remember how we ended last season?

[Adelie]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

That's what's so crazy about the season is that, like, we still have Taylor and Dakota and that whole relationship to try to unpack and they're crazy lives. And it's kind of like a B storyline at this point.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Zach]

This new batch of episodes, I was just like, oh, who gives a about Sunday dinner.

[Adelie]

Yeah. What about the skinny dipping? Did y' all hot?

[Jordan]

Oh, my God.

[Nick Viall]

For sure.

[Whitney]

Let the record be said that Justin said that, not me. They weren't really skinny dipping.

[Macy]

They underwear.

[Adelie]

Jimmy was all about it.

[Nick Viall]

Of course. Mary's like, why didn't it take the.

[Adelie]

It definitely wasn't Skinny. It was like, free boo.

[Macy]

I thought the same thing.

[Leila]

I thought the same thing.

[Jordan]

I was like, they are wearing underwear.

[Whitney]

That's not skinny dipping. No.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Have you seen an episode of Vanderpump Sexist Skinny dipping?

[Nick Viall]

Because that's just called a swimsuit for men.

[Whitney]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Speedo equality.

[Whitney]

I mean, you can't do it at can, but you can do it on the Secret Lives of Mormon Lives.

[Adelie]

That's true. Honestly. And like. Like the conversation with Demi and Brett where she's like, oh, yeah, we're all about to go skinny dipping. He's like, are they still filming? She's like, yeah, we're still filming. He's like, then, no, you don't. She was like, all right, well, I'm gonna finish wash. Washing my face. Love you. Good night. She's like, I'm not going skinny dipping.

[Whitney]

And then the girls are like, I cannot believe you would let your husband tell you whether you can go skinny dipping on national television or not.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. I love how, like, anytime a husband has an opinion, he's controlling.

[Macy]

Right, Right.

[Adelie]

Which, like, it's like, maybe he just made Demi realize that there will be, like, people.

[Zach]

His.

[Adelie]

Maybe men.

[Nick Viall]

Maybe his kids.

[Adelie]

No, no. Maybe, like, men behind the cameras holding the boom boom speakers. That may be like, we don't need them to see your boobs. I don't know.

[Zach]

And the rest of America wouldn't.

[Adelie]

And the editors, when they're putting a blur over your boobs, maybe they don't need to see them either. Like, valid.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

The things we forget when watching tv. Truly, there are.

[Zach]

Honestly, Brett seems like a director.

[Adelie]

I mean, that's. Honestly, what. Every time they got naked in Vanderpump, I was like, oh, my. These editors, the cameramen, they're just. I'm just coochies right there.

[Zach]

Early seasons of Summer House, the, like, they would literally. I'd be like, I've seen Kyle's ass more than I've seen my own.

[Adelie]

How often do you look at your own ass?

[Zach]

Not. Not as much, I guess, because I was jarred every time. I was like, oh, my God, that's.

[Adelie]

What it looks like.

[Zach]

That's not mine.

[Nick Viall]

That's what that is. Well, speaking of Demi and Brett, Macy and Laila have a lot of thoughts and opinions on their relationship and so much more. And they. They are. Coming up next.

[Adelie]

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[Nick Viall]

It's an amazing gift.

[Adelie]

Honestly, it's so girl coded, you know what I'm saying? Like you don't have like. And honestly, they kind of like level themselves out. Like you don't even need a leveler, you know, like it's just so easy to put them on your wall and create magic in your own home. There's so many pictures of river that I've had printed out that I was like, oh God, now I gotta go and get the frames and the hooks and the nails. Nope, not with mixed styles. It's so incredibly easy and it really turns your house just overnight into a.

[Nick Viall]

Into a homey home, into a homey home. And honestly, if you have, you know, we all have friends that are moving into new apartments, new places, new homes and if you want to make them feel right at home in a new place, great gift. It's a fantastic gift.

[Adelie]

Great gift. They also have hundreds of styles and colors, size combinations. So you can really create a look that you're going for. If you're like an aesthetically pleasing, like you only do black and white, they have that frames if you, if you want like a majority of different ones, they really make a gallery wall very easy or big, huge prints very easy. Whatever style as Mixtiles has you covered, turn your favorite memories into stunning, affordable wall art. For a limited time, our listeners get 35 off on all orders above $139. Just head to mixtiles.com and use code V I A L L and you're all set. That's code V I A l [e-mail] and after you buy, do us a favor. When they ask where you heard about mixed towels, tell them it was from our show that's called the Battlefalls.

[Nick Viall]

If you didn't know, you know how hard it is to find clean, ethical and trustworthy supplements. It's crazy just how untrustworthy some of those supplement there, but not Symbiotica. And they have been by my side in 2025. If I as I've been on my health kick journey, I can't tell you.

[Adelie]

How many of those little packets are all over the floorboard. Of my car. And honestly I don't mind because they are very cute and they're very effective and they're very easy to throw in a purse and just like slurp up at a red light. It's very easy.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. And we've been traveling quite a bit and we've been able to stay on that routine because Symbiotica makes it easy and convenient to do that with with their personalized packets that are just for you.

[Adelie]

They also taste delicious and you, you can take them on an empty stomach, which is.

[Nick Viall]

Well, it's rare because usually you have to have a full stomach and you know, who wants that?

[Adelie]

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[Leila]

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[Nick Viall]

Apothecary.com Laila Macy welcome back.

[Macy]

Thank you. Excited to Be here.

[Nick Viall]

It's so good to see you both. Tv. You look great.

[Macy]

Thank you.

[Nick Viall]

Congratulations on the pregnancy. Well, first, let's start. How are you? How are you feeling?

[Macy]

I'm feeling pretty good actually. I feel like the older you get though, the harder pregnancy is. Cuz I'm like, why is this one feel harder than the other two? But we're also like filming a show, so I'm like, maybe that's why we're doing a lot. But overall everything's great.

[Nick Viall]

Let's just stay on the pregnancy for now. I mean, obviously I am curious because just when Natalie got pregnant, like, all I cared about, like, was like, it's my only job is to protect her peace. Like just, you know. No, you know, I.

[Macy]

Yes.

[Nick Viall]

Everyone's, you know, if you, if you brought in bad energy, I was like, get the out. You know, like I didn't give a. You know.

[Macy]

Yeah, I know.

[Nick Viall]

Actually, obviously doing what you ladies do, which I always say this, like I'm so appreciative of you ladies of, you know, of this show. It's like, you know, we love reality tv and if you're a reality TV fan, this is, you know, one of the best ones on tv. But it takes a lot out of you, out of you, out of you women. You are so generous with your vulnerability, with your life opening up about so many personal things. But obviously that brings a lot of stress and how do you manage that with the pregnancy?

[Macy]

So I feel like. So season two, I don't know how much it shows, but I know you guys have seen it. We haven't even seen it, but from I was doing IVF during it and I. My whole mood, my mantra for season two is like, I'm gonna be at peace because like, for me to have this work and like become a successful pregnancy, you have to be so relaxed and stress free during ivf. So I feel like, like I was. I mean, I haven't seen it, but I feel like I was fairly chill because I was really just trying to protect my peace all season and my husband was very aware of that. So we were very like in the peaceful environment. Now that I'm pregnant, I'm not at peace. I would say I feel like a lot more fiery. Leila knows I've already yelled at one. She scares me a little bit.

[Adelie]

Did you do IVF for all of your babies?

[Macy]

Not my first, but it was a different dad. So we have a different situation. It's kind of personal, so we never get too into it. Cu. It's personal. To Jacob. But, um, so we did. My last donor was ivf, and then this baby's ivf.

[Jesse]

Gotcha.

[Macy]

And we have one more embryo in the freezer. So I feel like I can't really leave a soldier behind. So I feel like we'll probably have at least one more because I feel weird just leaving. If it was like three in there, I'd be like, it's fine, but, like, it's just one by themselves. So I feel like, bad.

[Nick Viall]

Personal question. Natalie and I have opened up about miscarriages that she experienced. And, you know, it's just a lot. And when you're. When you're going through that, back to back miscarriages, all of a sudden your doctor starts saying things like, well, there's always ivf. And obviously where we're very privileged. If that is something that we had to count on, we were certainly in a position to take advantage of and we feel very lucky. But certainly, like, Natalie, her, you know, even me, I don't know much about it.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Natalie was very quickly, like, I would. I really hope I don't have to.

[Macy]

Yes.

[Nick Viall]

But, like, for someone who has done it, what can you offer or advice just for anyone who is considering it. You know, just even speaking to Natalie, if that's something that we. Again, I feel very fortunate to be in a position to take advantage of, if it's something that is an option for us. But, you know. Yeah. What. What can you offer to the people listening that if. If. If that is something that they have to use because traditional methods.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Aren't working for them. Yeah. What can you say to offer them, you know, support, peace, what to look out for any. Any type of advice.

[Macy]

I mean, I would say I went into it really blind, like, when I first did it, because, I mean, like, I had a son from a previous relationship. And so for me, I remember thinking when I got pregnant at 19, I was like, oh, my gosh, it's the worst thing that ever happened. But I was like, well, at least I'll never be someone that has to do ivf. Because. And then, of course, like, I think I jinxed myself. I don't know what happened. But anyways, I think for me, the process was, I want to, like, scare anyone, but it was harder than I thought it was going to be. Going into it, I thought the worst part was like, oh, the shots and the needles. Because I don't like shots and needles. Like, it makes me squeamish. But for me, I think it's more the mental aspect, because the Hormones are like so intense. And so whenever you do, at least for me, because I've done two rounds now of the egg retrieval, that to me is the worst part because I think that it's, it, it's more just the mental aspect. Like your hormones are so out of whack that I feel like they'd be like, I'd go to an appointment. Like, you have 12 follicles. Like 12. I'm like, I thought I had more than that. Like, I like freak out, you know, but it's like you get really scared because like you just don't know what your results are going to be. And I think because the first time I did IVF, I was expecting to get like 20 eggs. And then I get came out of surgery and like, you got nine. And I was like, how? Cuz I'm like, I don't know. I've not been told I have any issues. So like, I mean, not that it matters, but still. And so then the second time we actually got 17, but I was freaking out because they were like, you have 12 follicles, Mike. That means I'm sure, make 12 eggs. And like, it's just like a whole process. I think it's because women go through this and it's like such a financial burden as well. And so I think that's what makes it so intense. Like if this was free and it was no problem, it's like, okay, like we could just do it again. But besides that, it's also like the hormones and it's like obviously not like a super healthy process because you, you're like changing your body and like you put your body almost into menopause at certain parts of the journey. And like your whole, it just, it really screws with your brain is what I will say. But besides all the negative, I will say obviously like the most amazing miracles come from it. Like I have my daughter because of ivf and then I have this baby and one more embryo. So like, I'm so incredibly grateful because it gives people a chance to have kids who maybe either couldn't or maybe they have genetic issues. Like there's so many reasons why people do it. And so I think it's just an amazing thing. So for me to, despite all the negatives, it is like 100% worth it. And I'm so, so like grateful for like the process.

[Adelie]

And is there, I mean, I'm sure there was a lot, but is there one thing that you can share that Jacob did throughout that process that made.

[Macy]

You feel super supported I think like, for him, for me it's like, because if I just turn into a. If he's just nice to me, I'm like, okay, thank you. Like, because like all. And I think is I'll know it. Even now being pregnant, I'm like, I know I'm being a. So thank you for like allowing me to do that and like not ever being snappy with me.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Macy]

So for me it's just like feeling. Feeling just like loved and supported. Like, I feel like Jacob's really good at being like, let's go get your favorite drink. Like, let me get you breakfast. Like, doing things without asking for me is the biggest thing. Like, before he left on this trip here, he woke me up with like breakfast in bed. So like, for me it's like little things like that where I'm like, that makes me feel so, like, appreciated and like loved and like now I don't have to like, make breakfast or think about like, things that make your life easier. I think in general, like, little things that are thoughtful, like getting my favorite drink. I'm like, yes, that made my day so much better. Like, it's the little things.

[Adelie]

Truly, Layla, are those things that Cameron didn't ever do, do or no.

[Jesse]

He was very love bomby at the beginning of our relationship. Came in very hot and strong. I think he said I love you to me two weeks into seeing each other, just very from the get go. Just like I'm going to like overload you with like affection and gifts and things like that. And that's something that I definitely needed at that point in my life. I was very insecure, just kind of like going through a lot mentally. So he was exactly what like, I needed. And I feel like he knew exactly what to do to kind of like snatch me and get me in.

[Macy]

So.

[Nick Viall]

So yeah, so obviously a big part of the season was you opening up about orgasms or lack thereof. And all jokes aside, listen, you know, this is again, one of my favorite reality TV shows of all time and certainly one of the best ones on TV today because it's not only funny and dramatic, but you women do talk about like very serious and very relatable issues that women across this country in the world go through. And one of them is just like, often is the case and like in bed, like, women can be forgotten about when it comes to, to pleasure. And then obviously you, you know, the Mormon religion can play a role. What is this show brought you in terms of opening your eyes in terms of like what you are entitled to when it comes to enjoying sex and intimacy and things like that, I think.

[Jesse]

It'S definitely a super taboo subject, especially, like, within our church. I feel like you're taught your whole entire life, do not have sex till you're married. And then magically, when you're married, you're supposed to just enjoy it and, like, know how to do it and everything like that. And I feel like it's. That's not common. And it's hard to, like, learn your body, too, when, like, there's a lot of shame around it in the church or you're married that you can't have it. And I feel like just me personally, I was ashamed to kind of, like, get to know myself and know what would help me have an orgasm. I just always felt, like, shameful around it, and I didn't want to explore and figure out, like, what would get me there. And, yeah, it took a lot to kind of get over that mental hump that finally, like, was able to, like, help me get there. It was just definitely more of, like, a mental game for me because I feel like I had, like, the tools to, like, get there. I feel like I knew what possibly could, but it was just kind of like every time I would do it to myself or, like, things like that always just felt, like, dirty after almost. And that's kind of just, like, the shame that, like, we have in our church kind of to begin with. So once I finally got past that mental hump, I feel like that's what kind of, like, helped me.

[Adelie]

She's never been more relaxed.

[Macy]

I know.

[Jesse]

Truly.

[Adelie]

Well, you.

[Macy]

You were.

[Adelie]

I mean, you and Jesse were, like, closest to Demi. I feel like first season, obviously, there's been a huge rift. We see that Demi is very much on, like, the outskirts. What happened to your friendship with Demi?

[Jesse]

I think personally, for me, the behaviors that I saw were just so alarming that I couldn't just kind of turn a blind eye to it. And I try to give a lot of people grace. That's something that I'm very big on. I'm very big on forgiving and, like, giving people second chances, senses. But for me, personally, seeing what she did to Jesse and just kind of honestly how evil it was, I was like, what makes me think that she's not going to go and try to do this to me? And then she did things to Taylor as well, and I just felt like it was a pattern that was repeating itself, and I didn't want to be caught on the wrong end of it. So I was just like, I'm gonna take a step back. I'm not gonna surround myself with her anymore. And ultimately, if she wants to come back one day and kind of, like, share her side of the story and make amends with people, I feel like I'm open to that. But every conversation I have had with her, unfortunately, unfortunately, has ended negative on her end. And it's name calling, and it's just very mean. And I feel like she kind of shows her true colors in those moments, and just. I don't need to surround myself with people like that that talk down to me and make me feel bad about myself. So I think just ultimately, I just don't really have a space for her.

[Nick Viall]

When you say what she did with Jesse, are you referring to Jay Z. Styles? Are you referring to the contract disputes? Are you referring to Vanderpump Villa or all of the above?

[Jesse]

All of the above. I feel like it was just kind of. I feel like the first thing, the contract thing, I was like, oh, well, Jesse forgave her. And I feel like that's kind of how, like, we all mutually felt that. We were like, okay, like, Jesse and them are good, so, like, that's fine. We'll let it pass. And then the hair thing came up when I was like, oh, okay, that's a little weird. And then now the Vanderpump thing came, and I was like, it's just. It's repeating itself. And I feel like at this point, if we were to just keep turning a blind eye, I feel like that would be kind of dumb of us almost. I feel like at some point, you kind of need to wake up and see, like, the warnings and kind of take a step back.

[Nick Viall]

I think something. And we talked about this with. With Jesse and Mikayla is that, I think, you know, as a. As a fan of the show and as viewers, I think we kind of all just assume that the group of you were just kind of this tight group of friends that have. Have been a tight group of friends for years.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And that doesn't seem to be the case. Right. Like, some of you were like, you and Michaela were friends. You and you, Michaela and Whitney were like a group. And then it seems like Demi kind of almost got brought in solo.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And you all. All of you women kind of got to know her through this show. Is that accurate?

[Macy]

Well, what I would say is that. So originally, when the show was, like, a thing we're about to film the pilot, Demi started hitting me and Michaela up, and she was, like, wanting to hang Out. And so we're like, okay. Like, we hung out a coup times at, like, one of our friend's house, went swimming, all that stuff. And she kept being like, you guys got to get me on that show. And so I remember me, Mikaela, being a little skeptical of her at first, being like, well, what are you willing to do to get on it? Like, why do you want to be on it so bad? Because me and Mikael were kind of skeptical of even going on the show. We're kind of like, I don't know if I even want to go on it, so why do you want it so bad? And so I think we were Always had our guard up a little bit with her, but, like, I would say, like, we were still pretty close. And I think me, Michaela, Demi, Jesse even got closer, like, season two and stuff. And behind the scenes were hanging out all the time. Time, like, I invited Demi to my birthday in February. She ended up coming. So I told her, I'm like, jesse's gonna be there, and Taylor probably so just so you know. And she opted out, which was completely fine. But I think, yeah, like, I don't feel like she was ever just, like, on an island, you know? Like, I feel like she was brought in and we all accepted her and loved her, like, fairly quick.

[Nick Viall]

That's the thing. It's just like, season one, she seemed to really be welcomed. So much so that I thought you guys had been friends for. For years. And I guess the reason why I asked that question, and I think the answer is it's probably obvious. You guys seem as shocked as I think us fans are in terms of your opinion of how. How your opinion of Demi has changed from getting to know her originally to. To now.

[Macy]

Yeah, I think we've all been a little bit shocked, to be honest. And I think things that we've heard and seen, like, even I was like, I need to see receipts because, like, I'm having a hard time comprehending that this is, like, actually happening. And again, I think it's because, like, I mean, we love Demi. Like, she's so fun and, like, hilarious and things like that. But then you're seeing this, like, kind of mean girl behavior where I'm like. I mean, I think we saw glimpses of it, but, like, she brushes it off a lot with humor. So it's like. And I love, like, a good humor. Like, I don't get offended very easily, so never has bothered me. But I think this time it's different because it's stuff that it is, like, it's real life, kind of like career ruining for people that she's just okay doing. And so I think it's just kind of different this time.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. I'm not sure what you women can say, but I have to ask because we have interviewed Miranda, We've interviewed Demi and Brett. We interviewed Miranda the morning when, when Jesse and me, I think you were in the comments with Marciano's post at the Hulu's Get Real event. So we asked Miranda about it and obviously we wanted to be very delicate because that was after we got a chance to interview Demi and Brett and Demi opened up about these accusations, these claims, which obviously we took very seriously. So I was a bit taken back and surprised by, you know, Jesse's comments, comments online. And then Miranda, who really didn't have any, was quick to say that she questioned me. And as we said with Jesse and Mikaela, like, we wanna believe victims. You know, people can be victims and it can look all different sorts of ways. You know, a lot of people like to poke holes in people's stories and things like that. But it's been shocking to me that everyone I've talked to of your group and people on the outside of the group, but close to the group, everyone seems to be questioning her story and her intentions. And I would just love to hear what you women think.

[Macy]

I mean, it's a really difficult situation and to be in this situation to begin with. I personally am a victim of sexual assault and domestic violence. So like, for me, I'm someone who believes, like all women, like, you tell me this happened, I'm going to believe you. So that is obviously no question in my mind. I think in this situation it's very complicated because I mean, like we've heard what happened in the past and of course we all supported to me and believed her and everything like that. I'm not saying we don't. I'm just saying like there has been things and without getting too deep into it, that don't add up, that aren't logical, that don't make sense. And I get that, like not everyone handles the situation similarly. Like me myself, I never reported because like I was in a situation where I was blackmailed so I literally couldn't. But the situation is very complicated because obviously we always want to support. But like when there's things happening that maybe don't make sense or that just aren't logical to any anyone, you have to kind of question because there's also times in certain situations where the men takes the hit for Something they didn't do anything. And I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm just saying that that happens as well. And so I think if you just completely turn a blind eye and being like, no, then. And I mean, it's so complicated because I don't want to get too deep in it. But when the story changes constantly too, it's a little confusing. I think that's why a lot of us are confused, because this story has changed a lot.

[Adelie]

You know, Leila, you were there there for Vanderpump Villa. What are your thoughts on the situation?

[Jesse]

I think, yeah, ultimately when it comes down to it, I think the word to just describe it is confused. I think you should always believe a victim. If someone's coming forward and they're claiming that they were assaulted, you should always believe them. But I think for me, I'm a very logically driven human and I feel like I need factual based things to prove what's happening in a situation. And I feel like right now there's just a lot of he said, she said. And yeah, just like you said, I was there in the villa, and there definitely was some things that were happening that were interesting for a married woman to be participating in, I think, personally. But ultimately, when it comes down to it, I didn't see what she's claiming and I didn't see those things happen. So I can't speak on something that I didn't see.

[Adelie]

What was Yalls reaction to her quote unquote plan for the finale of season one?

[Macy]

Wait, which plan?

[Adelie]

Sorry, I'm with Dakota.

[Macy]

Oh.

[Jesse]

Oh, very interesting. I think that was. We were all very confused on why that even even went into her head as something that would be okay on Brett's end, on Dakota's end, on Taylor's end, on her end. It was just very interesting.

[Macy]

And I think when it was brought up in season two, I'm assuming you see that where it's brought up towards the end, was that brought up?

[Adelie]

Was it? Jesse and Mikayla just told us about it.

[Macy]

Okay, so maybe it's not in season two because it was talked about.

[Nick Viall]

Not in season two.

[Macy]

Okay, well, it was talked about. And basically when it was talked about Taylor brought up and being like, and that was weird that you wanted to do that. And then Demi was like basically saying it wasn't weird. She's like, and you guys can back me up on that. And me and Jesse were like, I did think it was a little weird. Like, I wouldn't want that perception to be honest. As a married woman, to be like, let me fake this, like, affair, like, that would never be something I would want to do, you know? So it, you know, it is interesting.

[Nick Viall]

Leila, I don't know what. What you can say, but I have heard rumors Vanderpump Villa is out. Yeah, we can watch it.

[Jesse]

Yes.

[Nick Viall]

I have been told there's a lot that didn't make the cutting room floor, so to speak. When you watch it back, were you frustrated or surprised? There were certain things not in it?

[Jesse]

Definitely surprised. That conversation that Marciano and Demi had especially, that was like a two and a half hour long conversation that everyone in the castle that day was like, they're still talking. Like, that's. That's interesting. We would kind of like, peek in and out and they were still talking. They're still talking. And that conversation got very, very, very dwindled down. And then there's side conversations that they would have as well, too, that were he would make little weird comments towards her and then, like, she wouldn't necessarily, like, shut them down and, like, I was present for them. So, like, I can say that those were. And none of those were shown too. So I just think there's definitely a lot of moments that were not shown.

[Nick Viall]

We interviewed Demi and Brett, and he seems incredibly supportive. They seemed really connected. What's your opinion of Brett? Do you think he is.

[Adelie]

He poked face and he's just, like, completely gone?

[Nick Viall]

Do you think he is. Do you think they are aligned with Demi's behavior, or do you think he is a supportive husband who's also kind of.

[Macy]

I feel like we talk about this in our friend group so much right now because we're like, we don't even know. Like, I don't know what it would be because I feel like if you've seen some of the things that have been said between Demi and Marciano, I don't know how you can play along with that as, like, I would never want to see my husband texting certain things or saying certain things and being okay with that. So, like, part of me thinks, like, he must not know, but at the same time, I'm like, well, maybe he does and he's just being supportive and, like, they're moving on with a certain narrative to protect the. Their marriage. I. I really don't know. Like, whatever they choose, that's up to them. Like, it's none of our business what they're doing in their marriage. Like, and that's completely fine. I think it. It is confusing, though, because I'm like, what's what's going on.

[Jesse]

And I think at the end of the day with that situation, Jordan's try to present him things and say, like, hey, like this happened and he chose to, like, ignore it. So I think at the end of the day, like, we can show him all these things and if he chooses to stay, then that's up to him. Like, it's his marriage. That's his wife. If he chooses to, like, ignore that behavior. I would never personally if I was married and I was seeing that behavior from my spouse, House. But I mean, like, it's each their own.

[Adelie]

Do you think she will return for season three?

[Nick Viall]

Do you think she will want. Okay. It's like, well, and I want just to clarify now's question when we talk to them, especially Brad and pretty much her as well. We're. We're like talking as if they were done. Jesse and Michaela don't think she is. Again, I, I like contracts aside. And yeah, you know, I don't. Obviously you're not allowed to say whether she is or isn't. But, like, I just want your opinion on whether she will want to return regardless if she is either allowed or welcomed back. Will, will you. Do you think she will try to return at some point?

[Jesse]

I think I'm shocked personally that she hasn't come back already, honestly. Like, I thought her return. I think she will come back, yes. And I thought her return honestly was going to happen sooner than this.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

So I'm kind of shocked already that she hasn't come back yet. I just think personally for me, I don't think I could go on with the accusations that are being made without, like clearing my name. So I think at this point, like, she has to come back. I feel like, yeah, I think if.

[Macy]

She doesn't come back, like for season three, then maybe she takes like a skip on that and then goes to season four because I'm like, as it is, if you're not getting paid and you're being talked about probably the most. So, I mean, might as well come clear your name at least. I would want to.

[Jesse]

I would. Yeah.

[Adelie]

Macy, where do you stand with Whitney these days?

[Macy]

We're not like close friends by any means. I would say we're cordial, but we're not. I'm not entertaining like a friendship there any longer.

[Nick Viall]

Were you as confused as I was as a viewer when you went to her to try to get her to reflect on not showing up to your. I was at your birthday party, my.

[Macy]

Baby mama launch party.

[Nick Viall]

Congratulations, by the way.

[Macy]

Thank you.

[Nick Viall]

Love everything you're doing. Whitney's not stupid. Like, if she's. She might be a lot of things, but she's. She's not stupid. She's a very, I think, intelligent person, but she. I just. Why does she think she can get away with playing so dumb in some of these moments?

[Macy]

I'm. I mean, you and me both. I question that as well. I'm like, are you just really, like, not self aware? Because I feel like we've had so many conversations, like, even off camera. And I think you see that on camera where, like, I was the one who wrote the truth box confession saying, do you regret not going to Macy's event? Mainly because I was going to help clear her name in a way because we had a conversation a month prior talking about it, and we've had multiple conversations where I was like, saying, like, well, you can still regret not coming even if you weren't in the place. Because I'm like, I feel like I would regret not supporting my friends. Friends. I'm like, so if you look up regret, like, you can regret not coming, but still, like, being like, I wasn't in the place mentally, and I wish I was. So I regret that, but that sucks. And she told me on the phone, she's like, well, maybe I have to look up what regret means. And so she googles it on the phone and she's like, oh, okay, I guess I do regret that. And then we do the truth box. And she's like, no, I don't. I'm like, am I, like, losing my mind? So I'm like, I'm actually, like, so confused. And then. Yeah. And again, like, I think we have other conversations on the show where I'm just like, let's just agree to disagree. And it's, like, not good enough for her. And she, like, wants to keep pushing and be like, well, I want, like, again. I just. It was too exhausting, I think, for me with Whitney. Like, I wish her the best, and I'm fine to be cordial and friendly, but I feel like I was always in a friendship test where, like, even towards the end of season two, like, she texted me when we were done rapping, being like, you purposely didn't sit next to me and then you said this, and I'm like, wait, like, I. I'm too exhausted. I can't be confident constantly, like, watching my back being like, oh, is she gonna think I looked at her funny today? Like, you know what I mean? Because it's exhausting. And I was tired like season one, like, it was so tiring dealing with the emotional stress, like, of being her friend. Like, I loved her and I wanted to support her. But even off camera, I'm dealing with everything and being like, hey, like, how can I support you? I'm sending her crumbl cookies. I'm trying to be, like a great friend to her. And then it's like, season one finished and it was like ghost town. I still reached out to her. Never usually got responses. And then also. And once the show's about to come out, it's almost like she needed me as an ally or like she about to go on a podcast or she called me the day before and be, like, best friends with me. So it almost seemed like it was like a plan in a way to be, like, have me on her side as an ally. And I didn't feel like I realized these things until later where I was like, actually, she honestly never really was a great friend to me. And so I think once I realized that over time, then I was like, I just. I'm good to be friendly, cordial, I wish you the best. But I can't put my time and effort into this because I know Mikayla probably has very strong feelings, and she. Even season two, she'd be like, not wanting to be friends with her. And I'm like, I am a type of person that I have to decide for myself. I have to figure it out for myself. And so I'm not going to just not be friends with someone because you don't like her, you know, so. But over time, I realized I'm like, wait, actually, she never really was a great friend to me, and it just took me a while to realize that.

[Nick Viall]

Layla, what do you make of Demi and Whitney's newfound friendship?

[Jesse]

Very convenient, I think would be the great word to use, I think, think for the longest amount of time, they were like, enemies, basically. Like, to me, the amount of she talked on Whitney was astronomical. I mean, she does it to a lot of people, but it was pretty heavy in the way that she treated her, too. Like, I think I would use the word, like, bullying. So to now have them very close and kind of, like, together, I feel like it's because they kind of don't necessarily have anyone else in the group at the moment. And again, that's on their end if they want to come forward and kind of like, take full accountability for, like, everything else aside on demise. And if they want to take accountability for just, like, not being bestest of friends and, like, maybe they would have other people in the group that they could lean on. And I feel like it would be very telling if they started to like kind of like drift apart after that. But yeah, I just feel like it's very, it's very convenient.

[Macy]

They became friends because they had a common enemy, which was Taylor. Demi is beefing with Taylor and all of a sudden she becomes friends with Whitney who is fine with Taylor at that moment. But then I think as soon as Whitney has a chance to not like Taylor again, it's like, okay, yeah, so that's what it seemed like happened from all of our perspectives. But I mean, I guess, whatever, I.

[Nick Viall]

Guess you and Jacob seem like a really healthy and wonderful couple. He seems like a really stand up guy.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

What do you guys make? I guess just of the rest of the couples, you know, Jen and Zach, I mean, I will say I've, you know, I asked Jesse and Mikayla, at least Jen and Zach's interactions. I've been really impressed with Zach. Yeah, he seems like he is at least is trying to take accountability and make some changes. I don't know if that's, you know, for TV or authentic. I look forward to like learning and getting to know him more.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

But I'm just generally curious about like when you and Jacob get together and you're sitting, you know, off camera, like what do you make of just some of these other relationships like Dakota and Taylor and Jen and Zach specifically. I guess those, those two and just how toxic they seem.

[Macy]

I mean I definitely have more opinions than Jacob. I feel like Jacob's such an easy, easy, like relaxed guy. He's like, well, you know, they're trying like, you know, like he's so nice. I feel like he'll never say anything but I'll come to him and being like, oh yeah. And then so and so said this and Zach did this and I think, yeah, I know. I, I feel like the more I film and hear more with these couples, I'm like just grateful. And for my relationship, I'm like, wow, I got really lucky. But also I went through the ringer to find my husband too. Like I was an abusive relationship and then I lost my son's father. So I feel like for me I'm like I deserve him because I feel like I went through a lot to, to get to this man. And when you have toxic relationships in the past, you know that like I never want this again. And so I think that's how I found Jacob. Like probably the most normal ones. I do feel very grateful when I See these couples, of course, Taylor and Dakota. I mean, it's no, it's no. I'm not shy about how I feel about that one for sure. And I think I get. Because the people like, why don't you go tell Jen this too? And I'm like, well, I'm like, I can only handle one at a time, to be honest. And at this rate, like they're married, they're working on it. I'm like, Taylor and Dakota aren't married. So I feel like it's a little different where it's like you don't have that connection, commitment yet to where I'm as concerned, I guess. But not a huge fan of Dakota. And I'll be completely honest, he knows that. Not at all. Actually, like, the way that Mikaela feels about Winnie is probably how I feel about Dakota. I had that same energy say more.

[Nick Viall]

Because like I watching it back and clearly he's not a perfect person. No one is. But when I watch it, like, I, I'm. I'm always looking for ways to try to have empathy with people. Like, you know, I am too.

[Macy]

I'm an empath for sure.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, you, you clear. You are seem to be the clear, the most forgiving person, which is why am just kind of very fascinated by your opinion. But yeah, I see a hurt man who's, who's really been through a lot. But why, why do you have such a strong point of view about Dakota?

[Macy]

I think for one, he triggers me. He reminds me a lot of my abusive ex boyfriend. He does a lot of the same things. And I used to, I think in season one, I was like, I'm not saying you're that person because I was trying to get the benefit of the doubt. And then over time, like, he is that person and I think he can be a good person. But him with Taylor, he's not a good person person. And I just don't think he's. They're good for each other in general, but there's a lot more that happens behind closed doors that you won't even see on the show that I know. And so for me, knowing those things, of course I'm gonna ride for my friend and like, be protective of my friend because I've also been through a similar situation. So when I'm hearing the similarities and I'm like, oh, like, it like, irks me to my core and I just want to help. And unfortunately, you know, he can't tell Taylor what to do, obviously, like, she's gonna do probably the opposite of what your advice is, but I think it's just hard to watch, especially to see your friend get hurt over and over again and then still go. And you're like, what are you doing? Like, it is like, so frustrating. There's a point in time where I almost had to step back and be like, do what you want. I can't even. I just can't watch because it was like, again, I think he just triggers me because he reminds me a lot of my ex, but for good reason, because he is a lot like him and he sabotages things. Like, why do you think Taylor didn't show up today? Of course, it's always him behind the scenes sabotaging things.

[Nick Viall]

So I should blame Dakota.

[Macy]

It's like anytime Taylor has a big event coming up last year for press, she almost New York press, New York press, the press in la. She almost didn't show up because he purposely gets in fights with her. Sabotage his thing. She's crying, she doesn't want to go. Depress. He sabotages all the exciting things. Like, you know, I mean, like, if your wife had a great opportunity coming up, you wouldn't be like, let me start a fight right before she leaves. Right. Like, even if you were mad at her, something was going on. You'd probably be like, we'll save it for later. I want them to succeed. I want them to be their best. He doesn't. And I think it's almost like. Like a, like a competition. Almost like I think he's so insecure that he has to bring her down to his level, to be honest. And it's hard because this is exactly how I feel. So I'm just saying it. But then we do have to sometimes film in group settings. And he's a very nice, likable guy and I genuinely get along with him. So it's almost conflicting to me sometimes. Cuz I'm like, oh, like, why are you the way you are behind closed doors? Like, I wish you were like this person to the front, like all the time.

[Adelie]

Do you feel like he, like, performs for the cameras?

[Macy]

Oh, 100%, yeah. I always say that he's a wolf in sheep's clothing and I stand by that 100%.

[Adelie]

Well, we touched on it in a little bit in the beginning, but Leila, you had a boyfriend.

[Nick Viall]

He did all of season two and now he's dead.

[Adelie]

And now. Well, now, like, he is.

[Macy]

Sorry.

[Adelie]

Now.

[Nick Viall]

Now he's. He's not with us.

[Jesse]

He's not with you.

[Adelie]

What happened in that relationship?

[Jesse]

Honestly, it was a Very short relationship. We were together for maybe three months. And like I said, he came in very strong and hot from the beginning, the beginning. And we talked about, like, marriage and, like, engagement in a very short amount of time frame, which was pretty crazy, like, looking back. But again, I think he saw how vulnerable I was and he knew exactly what to say to me. And I feel like me too. Being a single mom, that's something that, like, I long for is, like, to have a complete family and to, like, have a partner to come home to at night. Especially in this environment, when I see so many happy couples, I want that so badly for myself. And I think he knew exactly what to say to, like, snatch me in. And then we ended up not working out because he felt like, morally we didn't align, which he's very contradictory in some ways that, like, he said that he wanted to be, like, a more active member of the church. And when we were together, he told that to me, and I was like, okay, well, this is something that's really important to him, so I'm going to try to, like, be more active for him. So we would go to church together, and then five minutes and us being at home, he's trying to rip my clothes off and have sex with me. So it's just like, it's the double standard that, like, I hate and I do not appreciate. And then he also didn't like the show, which was interesting because he knew about the show on our first date. He didn't like me modeling, but I feel like that's kind of, like an insecurity thing.

[Nick Viall]

So I think he showed up to film.

[Adelie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse]

He was on the show multiple times, as you guys saw. So it's just. It's very interesting that, like, he said those things once we were breaking up. I personally, I can't say completely because, like, I don't know what his intentions were, like, talking to me at all. But I honestly, looking back, I feel pretty used. I feel like he kind of came in, he got his screen, screen time, and then he dipped when he felt like he got enough.

[Adelie]

Kind of tried to make you feel, like, safe and comfortable by being like, I don't like this show. I don't like. But then, yeah, would be on it and obviously, like, have set conversations on it.

[Jesse]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I feel like it was kind of maybe a way to make him not look like he used me and be like, oh, well, I don't really. I don't like the show. Like, I don't know if I want this A part of my life for the rest of my life. Even though multiple times I told him, like, I don't know how long I want this in my life. Like, I would voice out to him all the time. Like, you know, like, we're on season three right now, but, like, who knows? Like, maybe like, at season five, like, I feel like I'm. I've reached my limit and I'm gonna walk away from the show. Like, I just don't know what the future holds for me. So I feel like him holding that kind of above me and being like, I don't know if, like, I want this part in my life. I'm like, okay, that's, like, interesting, because again, it wasn't a red flag when you showed up to filming all the time and.

[Macy]

But also, she was way out of his league. Like, I was confused.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. I honestly thought.

[Macy]

I'm like, excuse me.

[Nick Viall]

Way too ugly for you.

[Macy]

You guys, I'm like, let me be the matchmaker. Can I find their, like, spouses? Because I'm like, what's going on?

[Jesse]

I'm not opposed at this point.

[Nick Viall]

This motherfucker be about to be really funny.

[Macy]

Right?

[Jesse]

Like, who else do you feel that.

[Adelie]

Way about in the group?

[Macy]

I'm like, who's single? Well, I mean, no one has, like, is dating anyone, obviously. Like, I have choice feelings about Dakota, so I'm like, you could get better, obviously, but, like, you're the only other one because, like, Miranda's not dating anyone, right?

[Jesse]

No.

[Nick Viall]

What about Jen and Zach?

[Macy]

Jen and Zach? I'm mean, it's hard to say.

[Adelie]

Anyways, what about Jesse and Jordan?

[Macy]

Jesse and Jordan.

[Adelie]

Do you think she's, like, way out of his league?

[Macy]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, yeah, absolutely. 100%. Okay. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Well, speaking of, of that, just a broader question for both of you. And I think you kind of spoken out with Dakota and your ex as well, but there seems to be some kind of theme. I think this is a theme with society in general.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

It seems even more pronounced when it comes to. To more conservative communities, like the Mormon community. I was raised very Catholic, kind of Christian conservative, which, you know, I think there's a lot of good that comes from those communities. But, yeah, there's a theme, especially with the men, when it comes to successful women and very confident women, that there seems to be this theme of. Of men trying to put their partners down. Do you notice that?

[Macy]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think, to me, when I look at it, I think it's all the way you're raised. And I Mean, I always say being from California is different, and I think it's more traditional in Utah, where it's like, very traditional values. Granted, like, my mom didn't work, my dad did, but they were always, like, equals. And I think in certain relationships, you see with, like, Jen and Zach, not to, like, talk about theirs, but, like, I think that was an issue for him, like, and it's intimidating. I think it's intimidating for Jordan to see how successful Jesse is. And sometimes these men, when they're intimidating, intimidated, they try to bring their partner down so that they feel more of an equal, so that their partner wants them still. Because, like, well, if they get too successful, they might leave. Like, I think it's an insecurity thing. Whereas, like, I'm just so against that. And I think my husband knows that. Like, he is so supportive in my situation. It's like, if anything, he's like, how can I help make you more successful? And I'm like, I'm not saying that's how it should be, but I'm like, your partner should be supporting you. And if you, if my husband wanted to have his own career, too, and do his own thing, I am fully support. Supportive of that. But I do think it's interesting seeing these men try it. I, like, I have a weird thing with toxic men, as you can see. I'm like, these men. But I get it.

[Nick Viall]

Like, it hurts me, though, because you've been affected by them.

[Macy]

It pisses me off. Like, I'm like, these men are just, like, not supportive, and it's just not okay. I think it's just disgusting, to be honest. And I think if you're going to be in a relationship, you should hopefully have a spouse that supports you, your career and your dreams. And if you don't have that, that then leave.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. Leila, two part question. You came on season one a little bit more of the quiet one, a little more demure.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Season two, you really seem to find your, your voice, you know, being willing to do everything from exploring orgasms to smoking a vagina Blunt.

[Macy]

Oh, my God.

[Nick Viall]

Honestly, I loved it. I thought it was great. I, I mean, it just, I, I listen, we're all human. Like, you had a moment of just, like, saying, you're allowed. You are. I, you know, getting to know your story more and more. You are more than allowed to shake it up a little bit. But I want to know. Obviously, season two ended with an absolute bomb drop of you getting Marciano to spill some tea. Not sure what's true. What's not. But first part question is, do you feel like this show has made you feel more empowered, more confident in yourself, despite it being a show that includes a lot of drama and toxicity and things like that? But do you feel like it's made you a stronger woman? And two, what do you make of how season two ended? And again, I know we have season three, and I'm gonna respect that. We are gonna preserve that as well. But what. What can you share about that moment that season two ended on? And, like, I guess how shocked or not shocked when. For you?

[Jesse]

Yeah, for the first question, I think for me, personally, just this show has given me a lot of opportunities in my life that's kind of, like, changed my life. Like, being able to be a single mom and provide my children a really good life is something that a lot of women stay in relationships for because they can't do that. So it's something that I'm very grateful for, and I think that's why I've become more confident, because I'm like, I'm doing the damn thing, and I'm doing it on my own, too, which I'm just really proud of myself, because truthfully, that's something that, for a long time is why I stayed in my marriage so long, is because I didn't know if I could do it. And then the show came into the picture, and I was like, wait, like, there's a chance that I could do this on my own. And that's what kind, like, gave me the confidence to leave. And season one, that's when I was in the process of my divorce and, like, still, like, kind of in the depths of that. And that wasn't shown, obviously, in season one, but I was struggling a lot mentally, season one, for sure. And I just wasn't able to show up for myself mentally, so I wasn't really able to show up when we were doing this experience. But season two, I'm finally, like, in a good place, and I feel like I've just become just a happier person. I'm kind of getting back to, like, who Layla is. And then your second question. I was shocked. Very, very shocked. I think it was a really hard thing to hear because I just. In that moment, it was. I didn't know what to believe. Like, I'm hearing this man that I don't even know say something about one of my best friends. That was hard to hear. And, yeah, I just think shocked is the right word to use. It was definitely a hard day for me to hear that.

[Nick Viall]

What do you Think of Marciano, I.

[Jesse]

Think he's a scummy person. Personally, I think. I think he's trying to do the right thing now, which is good. But I think his intentions of what he was doing behind the scenes is very icky and just messing with married women, too, in general.

[Macy]

Married women in general.

[Jesse]

Woman is married. Leave her the hell alone. I just think it's so gross to even kind of, like, venture into that.

[Macy]

But, yeah, I think it comes from a place of insecurity for sure.

[Nick Viall]

Again, not sure what you can share. Obviously, season two ended with an accusation about Jesse's behavior. We with Jesse, she promises we're going to get to the bottom of it season three, so we'll hold her to it. But you went there to get answers about him. And to me, is there more to that story of him and Demi, or is it just about him and Jesse at this point?

[Jesse]

At that point, when I did meet with him that day, he swept everything under the rug with. To me. So it was. I didn't find anything out at that day meeting him. He was just kind of like, nothing happened. Nothing happened. And then kind of reverted the whole entire conversation to Jesse. So, yeah, I did go there that day with intentions to kind of figure out what actually happened in Italy, and he didn't give me that.

[Nick Viall]

What. Do you. Do you think there is more?

[Jesse]

I do. Yeah. I do.

[Adelie]

Is there any ounce of you that has sympathy for Demi?

[Jesse]

I think that this is a very hard situation, for sure. This world's just really hard to navigate. And I think we're all human, and at the end of the day, we up and we make mistakes. But I think right now, what's hard for me me is that she's seen how it's affecting people and affecting people that she loved. It doesn't matter how she feels about Jesse now. At one point in your life, you really love Jesse and she's one of your really good friends. And I think for me, it's hard to, like, kind of feel sympathy when, like, she's seen how badly it's hurting Jesse. And, like, there hasn't been, like, an attempt to, like, reach out or, like, try to, like, just see if she's doing okay. But I do feel bad. I just feel like this is hard for sure to have this all broadcasted to the world, too, because, like, normally when people make mistakes in life, it's not being shown to millions of people all over for the world. And it's definitely an isolating experience that, like, when you up, it's Public.

[Macy]

Public.

[Jesse]

But if she were to reach out.

[Adelie]

To you while the show is airing, while she's getting opinions, would you be there for her, or do you need that. That space?

[Jesse]

I think I'm willing to hear her out for sure. I'm never gonna just be like, f you don't talk to me. But I definitely would see how she handles that conversation and kind of takes accountability and doesn't deflect. I feel like that's something that this group kind of does a lot is when we're in the hot seat, we kind of start, like, point fingers towards everyone else, and they're like, well, you did this, and you did this. And I'm like, okay, like, stop. Take accountability for what I'm coming to you for right now. Don't come at me and, like, try to say things about me right now. This isn't about me. So I think if she's able to, like, take accountability and kind of, like, be like, yeah, I up, then, like, I'd be willing to hear her out.

[Nick Viall]

I would love to have you both answer. Do each of you think that Demi and Brett's relationship will last?

[Macy]

It's hard to see or say because I feel like I don't know how deep their relationship lies on social media. You would think it's perfect, but as we know from many other couples, that social media is not a reflection how your relationship really is. I don't want to say yes or no. I would give it a maybe.

[Nick Viall]

Give me, give me. Does she got it?

[Macy]

I would say yes. I'll say yes for now. Yeah. What do you think?

[Adelie]

What do you think?

[Jesse]

Hot take? No.

[Macy]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Jesse]

I think this world, unfortunately might. The way that she's operating with the things, I think this world might break them.

[Nick Viall]

Okay. We had played a fun game with. With Jesse and Michaela last episode, and we're gonna play the same. It's Mormon superlatives. And so just tell us what you think. You're welcome to nominate yourselves or anyone else in the group.

[Adelie]

Who do y' all think is the most delusional?

[Macy]

Whitney.

[Jesse]

Whitney.

[Macy]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

Who is most likely to win an Oscar?

[Macy]

Ooh. Well, I think Whitney's the only one who wants to be an actress.

[Jesse]

She's damn good at acting. So, Whitney.

[Adelie]

So I guess Whitney, who is most likely to use a beauty filter on the Their photos?

[Macy]

To me, yeah. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

You guys seem to be pretty in sync. Most likely a sneak in a fart and blame someone else.

[Macy]

Sneak it. No, I wouldn't sneak it, though. You know me.

[Nick Viall]

I balance it I think more of the episodes is blaming someone else.

[Macy]

Blaming someone else. Oh, it's not me or Michaela cuz I feel like we announce it happens. So Jessie maybe like, maybe you actually. She's like quiet over there. I think feel like it would actually be you.

[Jesse]

Oh no, I own that show.

[Macy]

I feel like if you.

[Adelie]

Who is most likely to steal a baby's name?

[Macy]

I'm trying to think of who we have on our cast. Like who is that?

[Jesse]

Not Miranda.

[Macy]

I feel like she's like maybe Jesse.

[Jesse]

Jesse.

[Macy]

I could see it being Jesse.

[Nick Viall]

Worst dressed Whitney.

[Macy]

Best dressed Miranda.

[Jesse]

Me?

[Macy]

Yeah, you're Miranda.

[Nick Viall]

Most worst dressed.

[Macy]

Oh yeah. She tried to hide, not do.

[Nick Viall]

That's two.

[Macy]

She's like you. I'm like.

[Adelie]

It's two.

[Jesse]

Taylor.

[Adelie]

Okay, who's most likely to have lied this season?

[Macy]

Probably Demi to me. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Now back to worst dress. Do you think, do you think Taylor puts as much effort into her wardrobe as Whitney?

[Jesse]

No, Taylor's just comfy. She's a comfy girl. But I think sometimes we'll like show up to things and like she comes in sweats and like everyone else is in jeans. So I think that's what I mean.

[Nick Viall]

Am I accurate to assume that Whitney puts a ton of effort into her wardrobe?

[Jesse]

Yeah, and in the wrong places I.

[Macy]

Can say that I think she tries to do funky things to be different. If I'm being honest.

[Nick Viall]

I mean if her goal is different, she's crushing it.

[Macy]

No, I know, exactly.

[Adelie]

So I guess it's most likely to get cancelled.

[Macy]

I mean I'm just going to say Jesse because she's Jesse going through things.

[Adelie]

Okay.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Love her. Love you.

[Macy]

Love you. Love you Jesse. Sorry.

[Nick Viall]

More than to me, huh?

[Macy]

Yeah, well I would say, I would probably say to me honestly but like I just think of the situation right now. I would say harder.

[Adelie]

Maybe next season three it would be.

[Nick Viall]

Maybe most unreliable Taylor.

[Macy]

Taylor or Jen J. Yeah, it's. They're the two.

[Jesse]

Just forget about her. She's just never there.

[Macy]

Yeah, same.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Jesse]

Reliable Macy.

[Macy]

Yeah, probably say me.

[Nick Viall]

Okay.

[Macy]

Yeah. Me or Jesse. Those answers surprise you. Are they similar to.

[Adelie]

Honestly they were majority of them. Majority of them were similar.

[Nick Viall]

Mostly they picked their nose in public.

[Jesse]

Whitney.

[Macy]

Yeah. Whitney.

[Jesse]

That girl rips ass in public all the time too.

[Macy]

She did. She's a far with her. She is.

[Nick Viall]

Well ladies, it's always great to catch up with you. Thank you for such an Amazing Season 2. I hope to see more of you in the future. Good luck the rest of the way and just again just thank you for being who you guys are, as vulnerable as you are, especially, I mean both of you. You guys really opened up this season. It was really great to see and get to see more of you, especially you, Layla, and wishing you all nothing but the best.

[Macy]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Nick Viall]

Thank you guys so much for listening. Thank you to our guests Layla and Macy for joining us. We will be back next week for another jam packed, explosive week. We have an incredible going deeper with, I'll say, two members of the cast of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, a couple and a lot to unpack there. Excited for you guys to listen to that one. It's gonna be a crazy week. We're excited to bring it to you. We'll see you there then. Bye.

[Miranda]

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