E940 - Mormon Wives Finale, Maks and Peta, JoJo Siwa’s New Relationship? Summer House & Phaedra Returns

Summary

The Viall Files - Episode E940 Summary

Release Date: May 27, 2025

Welcome to Episode E940 of The Viall Files, hosted by Nick Viall, alongside Natalie Joy and the Household. In this engaging episode, the trio delves into a mix of personal anecdotes, reality TV drama, celebrity relationships, and heartfelt conversations about life's challenges. Below is a detailed summary capturing all key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

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1. Unexpected Challenges During a Flight [02:26 - 07:17]

The episode kicks off with Nick sharing a humorous yet frustrating experience they had while boarding a flight in Vancouver. Due to a mix-up, Nick, Natalie, her mother River, and their child were seated together in business class. River's playful chatter inadvertently drew the ire of a fellow passenger who was disgruntled by their 18-month-old's behavior before the flight even took off.

Notable Quotes:

• Natalie: "Locked in. You got me right? So now it's like all I can see." [03:44]
• Nick: "How exactly do you expect us to punish them? Put them in the corner?" [04:37]

Despite the tension, River remained calm, with Natalie and Nick handling the situation gracefully. The family bonded over the incident, reflecting on the challenges of parenting in confined spaces.

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2. Kris Jenner’s Transformation & Kim Kardashian’s Law School Journey [21:25 - 24:02]

Transitioning from personal stories to celebrity news, the hosts discuss Kris Jenner's remarkable facial transformation. They commend her decision to invest in her appearance, noting the positive reception and the impact it has on her public persona.

Notable Quotes:

• Nick: "Her new face is... it looks really great." [21:38]
• Peter: "The money she paid is money well spent." [21:53]

The conversation then shifts to Kim Kardashian's unconventional path to law. Instead of attending traditional law school, Kim pursued an apprenticeship in California, successfully passing preliminary exams known as the "Baby Bar." This achievement highlights her determination and commitment to her goals outside of the entertainment industry.

Notable Quotes:

• Max: "The baby bar is a first-year law student's exam required in California for students at unaccredited law schools or those studying law through alternative methods." [23:44]
• Peter: "Hey, she's doing the damn thing." [23:57]

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3. Justin & Hailey Bieber’s Relationship Dynamics [13:05 - 16:45]

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing Justin and Hailey Bieber's relationship, especially focusing on a controversial Vogue cover caption by Justin. Initially, Justin praised Hailey's achievement but later replaced his heartfelt message with a series of cryptic emojis following Hailey's apparent displeasure.

Notable Quotes:

• Nick: "I feel like it's unfair to shit on the dog." [09:11]
• Natalie: "When you are trying to have a baby, I don't know, I'm just thinking of the reasons why." [10:42]

The hosts discuss Justin's public persona and speculate on the authenticity of his transformation, questioning whether his recent behavior indicates genuine growth or a strategic public relations move.

Notable Quotes:

• Natalie: "I have never seen him interact with Haley publicly the way that he interacted with Sza on stage in front of millions of people." [17:58]
• Nick: "His behavior online recently has been odd... but it's hard to talk shit because he did compliment my sweater once." [15:26]

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4. In-Depth Conversation with Max and Peta on "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives" [27:16 - 85:17]

Max and Peta join Nick and Natalie to discuss their experiences with the reality show "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives." The conversation is heartfelt and delves into personal struggles, including miscarriages and maintaining a strong relationship amidst adversity.

Personal Stories:

• Peta shares the serendipitous moment they met at a CVS pharmacy while both dealing with miscarriages, highlighting the importance of support systems during difficult times.
  Quote: "Nick, you know me, I'm very nice. But I've also said it the nicest... you just have to feel this." [31:29]

• Sierra (Peta) discusses the chaos of raising three young children and the couple's efforts to reconnect by taking trips to Vegas without the kids.
  Quote: "We'll have a little gamble for sure. I said to him when we were checking in, we got to do blackjack." [43:04]

Relationship Insights:

• Max and Peta emphasize the resilience required to stay connected through trauma, recognizing that true love stands strong during challenging times.
  Quote: "We're still here, married with three kids and super happy." [36:56]

• They also touch upon the dynamics of reality TV, discussing how personal trauma and community expectations shape their relationship and personal growth.

Quotes:

• Peta: "This is a without a doubt person that I want to spend that lifetime with." [40:08]
• Sierra: "It's hard when you're going through something like that, because nothing's really going to make you feel better in that moment." [31:29]

---

5. Review of "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives" Season Two Drama [43:25 - 88:59]

The hosts and their guests provide a critical analysis of Season Two of "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives," focusing on the rise of Demi as the season's antagonist. Discussions revolve around the show's portrayal of religious faith juxtaposed with personal conflicts and promiscuity.

Key Points:

• Demi's Character: Seen as manipulative and strategic, Demi's actions have stirred significant drama, leading to tensions among the cast. Quote: "Demi's behavior online has been odd." [14:51]

• Taylor's Authenticity: Contrasted with Demi, Taylor is praised for her genuine and authentic portrayal, earning the hosts' support. Quote: "My favorite is Taylor just because she's so raw, she's so authentic." [46:49]

• Editing and Perception: The group debates the impact of editing on viewer perceptions, noting that recurring cast members like Demi can influence the narrative more than one-off participants. Quote: "There's an element of, like, I think, especially for the secret lives of Mormon wives and mom talk, you know, you have these young women..." [61:23]

Drama Highlights:

• Pregnancy roulette game leading to Michaela and Macy discovering their pregnancies, which was handled insensitively given Demi’s fertility struggles. Quote: "This was like a terrible scene to watch." [55:29]

• Accusations and confrontations, especially involving Demi confronting other cast members about loyalty and business dealings. Quote: "It's like, where's the... I mean, I hate saying this because I've really enjoyed my time with Demi..." [57:59]

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6. JoJo Siwa’s New Relationship [74:00 - 79:05]

The hosts briefly touch upon JoJo Siwa's new relationship with Chris Hughes, noting the public's fascination and the couple's growing presence in the media.

Notable Quotes:

• Nick: "I did speak with JoJo the other day. I can confirm that she is really happy." [19:14]
• Max: "I'm really interested in JoJo Siwa and Chris Hughes's relationship because they are together." [19:08]

They discuss how public displays of affection, such as JoJo and Chris being photographed together, signify the beginning of their relationship and its potential trajectory in the public eye.

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7. Preparing for Upcoming Episodes [85:17 - 92:15]

As the episode wraps up, Nick previews upcoming content, including the "Going Deeper" episode featuring Jen and Zach Affleck. He teases discussions about their relationship dynamics, mental health struggles, and the authenticity of Zach's personal growth.

Notable Quotes:

• Nick: "Tomorrow you can find out a lot more about their relationship... We dive deep into the relationship." [70:52]
• Max: "I think it's giving... like a common enemy." [75:25]

Additionally, the hosts hint at the continuation of drama in "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives" and tease future discussions about other reality shows like "Summer House" and "Atlanta Housewives," particularly focusing on Phaedra's return.

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8. Closing Remarks and Farewells [92:15]

The episode concludes with a brief mention of the show's sponsor, Progressive Insurance, and a reminder to tune in for the next episode of "Going Deeper."

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Final Thoughts:

Episode E940 of The Viall Files offers a rich blend of personal stories, reality TV insights, and celebrity updates. From navigating the challenges of parenting on a flight to dissecting the intricate drama of "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives," Nick, Natalie, and their guests provide listeners with entertaining and thought-provoking discussions. The heartfelt conversation with Max and Peta adds a layer of depth, highlighting the importance of support and resilience in relationships. As always, the hosts balance humor with sincerity, making this episode both engaging and relatable for listeners.

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For those who haven't listened to the episode, this summary encapsulates the essence of the discussions and provides a comprehensive overview of the topics covered. Stay tuned to The Viall Files for more insightful conversations and the latest in reality TV and celebrity news.

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Sierra]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files reality recap edition. I am your host, Nick, and we are recording from a different place today. A different pop up studio. We're all over the place.

[Natalie]

We're all over. We bounce around, we bounce here, we bounce there.

[Nick]

Oh, we're in Vancouver at the moment. Yes.

[Natalie]

Yes. We're in Canada.

[Nick]

Yeah, in Canada.

[Natalie]

The great country of Canada.

[Nick]

The country that said we just. We just want to leave.

[Peter]

So true.

[Nick]

On our flag. That's all we need. Just a leaf.

[Natalie]

They're simple, they're minimalist.

[Max]

Love.

[Peter]

Yeah, I mean it's a good. The maple leaf too. I mean that's a great. If you're going to pick a good leaf.

[Nick]

It's a big leaf. Yeah.

[Peter]

Yeah, the big leaf.

[Max]

Have you guys had poutine yet?

[Nick]

I know. Well, I mean I've, I've had it. It's not for me, you know.

[Max]

I know.

[Nick]

It's a. I know. It's a staple.

[Max]

I'm not surprised.

[Nick]

Yeah, trauma for me.

[Peter]

Yeah. Have you had any maple syrup?

[Nick]

Have I had maple syrup in Canada from. No, not since we've been here.

[Peter]

Okay.

[Nick]

No.

[Peter]

Well, let me know when you do.

[Natalie]

But I did have a fight with a lady on the airplane.

[Peter]

Let's hear.

[Max]

I saw this on your story. I need to hear more.

[Sierra]

Spill.

[Nick]

Set the stage.

[Natalie]

I'm setting the stage. So we were leaving lax, flying into Vancouver and we were, you know, running a little late.

[Nick]

Happy to report we were flying first class business class.

[Natalie]

So we were not sitting in front of our gate because there were no seats. So me, my mom, river and Nick were all sitting at a different gate. And whenever we arrived back, they were already boarding like zone four or something. So we quickly jumped in line. We were like the last people to sit in business class. Everyone else had already sat. We sit down and River's in a mood where she's talkative, you know, she's feeling spicy. She's not crying, she's not upset, but she's loud. She's chitty. She. She's chitty chatty chitty. You know what I'm saying?

[Peter]

Yeah, she's chitty chatty. She's going for the woman chat to.

[Natalie]

Everyone who comes on the plane. Yeah, she's kind of. Yeah, she's. She's experimenting with her vocal range, some.

[Peter]

Could say as she should.

[Natalie]

So they're still boarding the plane, we've not left the gate and I clock the woman in front of me. Y' all know I love, I love an eavesdrop phone read, you know, on an airplane. I love it. And if you don't want people to read your phone then you need to turn the brightness all the way down and you need to sit in a position where someone behind you could not read your phone.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You don't hold it up like this.

[Natalie]

You don't. With your brightness all the way up and your text size also all the way up.

[Peter]

Oh yeah.

[Natalie]

You know what I'm saying? Extra large.

[Peter]

That's a public spectacle at that point.

[Max]

You're asking.

[Nick]

It was giving over 50.

[Peter]

Yeah, yeah.

[Natalie]

You want everyone to read your text.

[Max]

You're showing it to me.

[Natalie]

You're. She, she was showing it to me. So the woman in front of me who I thought honestly like was going to be quite nice because we, we made an, we made an eye contact as we're, as we're boarding now. I know that the eye contact was mean spirited. So I read on her phone. The first thing I see is 18 month old in business class and I'm like, oh, here we go. Locked in. You got me right? So now it's like all I can see. She goes to a different group chat and she starts typing to her friends. There's some young couple shout out Nick.

[Nick]

Yeah, period young. She was. Including me.

[Peter]

She was.

[Natalie]

There's some young couple behind me in business class with their arouses round year old kid screaming up a storm. The kind of people who think it's cute. Then she proceeds with they need to learn how to quiet their kid down. Spells first spells their kid T H E R E so wrong there their kid down and then says the poor woman next to me is trying to work. Granted we have not left the gate. So I'm. You're. You're trying to work. We haven't even left the gate and you're already complaining.

[Nick]

Mm.

[Max]

She's not.

[Nick]

Also like, how. What exactly do you expect us to do? How are we allowing our 15th month old by the way, not 18 month old. What are we supposed to do? Punish them? Put them in the corner?

[Natalie]

It's like. Do you want to try to quiet her down? Yeah, please feel free.

[Nick]

What, what's, what's your Tactic nicely.

[Natalie]

Yeah. It's like, do you have duct tape with you?

[Nick]

I don't know.

[Natalie]

What do you want me to do?

[Peter]

Have you ever talked to an 8 giving?

[Nick]

I've never had to parent.

[Natalie]

Yeah. So I. So as she's finishing her tec, I lean up and tap her on the shoulder and I said, it's t H e I r their kid.

[Sierra]

Not.

[Natalie]

Not that Natalie.

[Nick]

I had no idea. I had no idea this was going on at the moment. So I'm like, all I hear is Natalie. I see Natalie lean forward and go, that's the wrong there. And I'm just like, what? I'm like, I know she's trying to be. I guess she's trying to be nice. But like, why would she do that? Because I don't. I don't. I do not know that she saw this.

[Natalie]

She's like immediately like tries to hide her phone and she's like, are you reading my screen? And I said, are you texting about my kid? And she kind of like huffs and puffs and turns and then she brings out her phone, same level, same brightness, same text size and starts going. She just confronted me about a spelling error. She's reading my text from behind me. Lol. I respect it. Like she just is continuing.

[Nick]

Wait.

[Peter]

So she was impressed.

[Max]

She knew that you were reading it, so now she was like, I'm gonna write nice things about it.

[Nick]

That is her way for asking for forgiveness.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Then Natalie tells me what's going on. So I loving an awkward situation. I thrive in uncomfortable situations. I grabbed river and I gave river full permission to just go ham on the screen that's behind her seat, like hoping that river continues this behavior.

[Natalie]

Oh, I wanted river to scream and cry and be so loud on this flight, but our perfect angel baby daughter.

[Nick]

Slept the whole way. Slept the whole way the entire.

[Peter]

So she was also mad about.

[Natalie]

Complain about.

[Max]

Oh, man.

[Natalie]

No, she was, you know, she was pissed because the person responded to her initial text being like. Whenever she was like the 18 month old in business class responded being like, I'm sure they're tired of sitting. And she was responds with we just got on. So it was like if your friends.

[Nick]

So her friend was trying to calm.

[Natalie]

Being like, oh, I'm sure the poor baby will be tired of sitting. And she's like, no, no, we just got on the flight that.

[Nick]

Anyways, if you're out there and you're in that group chat and you listen to this show, shame your friend actually get rid of this friend. This friend's not worth having.

[Natalie]

It's like we stopped complaining about babies crying on airplanes or making noises on airplanes years ago. Like, if you. You are entitled to your child free life, but you are not entitled to a child free environment. And to think you have the, like, privilege to be like children in business class making noise. How dare they?

[Max]

The best payback, though, is that river was an angel.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Max]

And absolutely.

[Natalie]

And also she's stupid. She doesn't know how to. She doesn't know how to spell. She doesn't know which. They're there and they are. She doesn't know the difference.

[Peter]

Yeah. If I'm going to hate with Crick.

[Natalie]

Right?

[Nick]

I was a little bummed.

[Sierra]

Exactly.

[Nick]

Yeah. I really wanted river to not nap.

[Peter]

I think river was kind of being like, maybe the pettiest she could be in that moment, though. No, I'm telling you, River. River was like, you know what? If I were to ask Nick about this, he would say, don't waste your energy on it. And she didn't.

[Max]

Hey, yeah, amen, you guys. This actually.

[Natalie]

But every time she got up to go to the bat, every time she got up to go to the bathroom, she would, like, kind of try to look at me, and I would just give her the meanest, mean mug with my sleeping baby sprawled across my body. And it was just like, have you.

[Nick]

Gotten more ferocious, Leia, since you've had a child?

[Max]

So funny enough, this actually happened to me this morning where I was on a hike with my friend, and they also have a. A baby. Their baby is. I just turned 1. So their baby just turned 1. Louie is 10, about to be 10 months. And we were on this hike, and this woman with a golden retriever, like, quickly passes by us and is just like, I'm just trying to get to the quiet. And I'm like, girl, you're outside trying to get to the quiet. Our babies were not even.

[Natalie]

Ma' am. Go to the library.

[Max]

They were not even trying. They were literally just like, ba, ba, ba, ba. Like, cute. Yeah, whatever. And also, we're outside on a hike. So then my friend was like, did you say something? No, but my friend did. He was like, okay, that's not even a real golden retriever.

[Peter]

She said, you have a mutt.

[Natalie]

That's a mutt.

[Nick]

Why? Did the dog catch a stray?

[Peter]

Yeah, that dog didn't know.

[Max]

I don't know, my friend, because you.

[Natalie]

Know that that woman is the type of woman who, like, would take that so seriously.

[Max]

But he struck a nerve.

[Nick]

I still feel like it's unfair to shit on the dog.

[Max]

He struck a nerve. Okay. He was just like, that's not even a real golden. And she. And she's like, actually, it is a real golden. It's a field golden retriever. And he's like, okay, sure.

[Peter]

That's one of the stories that's like, that would make me want to leave Los Angeles for the rest of my life. It's like, shit like that.

[Max]

It was really funny. I. And then we, like, couldn't escape her because we kept catching up and it was just. It was funny.

[Peter]

She said I didn't get to the point.

[Nick]

This reminds me when I was a kid and there's, you know, you know, like the kids movies where there's always like the character in the movie that's an adult that like hates the little kids and things like that. I remember being a kid and thinking, who are those people? How. How do you become such a miserable person? And then you, you grow up and you realize those people actually exist.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

It's kind of fascinating.

[Natalie]

Yeah. I. I witnessed a man cussing at his children at the park. And I ran over there and was like, that's enough. And then his poor kids, like, looked so scared and I was like, do you know this man? And they were like, yeah. And I was like, you can't talk to them like this. And he, like, got on his bike and was like, we're leaving. And everyone rode off. But I definitely insert myself in people's business a little too much when I think something's wrong. Sorry. I stand up for what's right.

[Peter]

You do.

[Nick]

She does.

[Max]

Mama bear.

[Nick]

I've really enjoyed Natalie's Mama Bear energy since having I experienced Natalie's Mama Bear energy when we were first dating and someone was talking shit about me in the line at Prince Street Pizza in New York. Great pizza. Got in a fight with them. Great pizza. Fantastic pizza. We have a great week lined up for you. Hope you had a great Memorial Day weekend because this week is going to be jam packed. Later this episode, our friends Max and Peter Murgatroy join us. My former Dancing with the Stars partner and her husband join us to talk a little secret lives of Mormon wise with us. And then tomorrow for going deeper. Really excited for you guys to hear this episode. Jen and Zach Affleck join us to dive deep into their relationship. Obviously, I think everyone's watching season two of the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, but they stopped down filming. They did not finish the season due to Jen's mental health. So we'll get an update from Jen and Zach about their relationship. And we dive deep into the relationship. Obviously, they had a lot of controversy in season one, specifically Zach. I think a lot of people were kind of shocked by some of the growth that we saw from Zach, or at least the perception of growth. We don't really know. I don't know how, like, genuine it is.

[Max]

Seems legit.

[Nick]

But you will be able to find out tomorrow. Well, you can. You can decide for yourselves what you guys think. So it's a great episode. Lot to dive into. They have a lot to say about their relationship as well as the rest of the women, specifically Demi, and that whole, like, drama that's unfolding as well.

[Max]

Thursday, we have Danny and Nia from the Valley.

[Nick]

Danny and Nia from the Valley.

[Max]

And we also have Chris Clemens, period.

[Peter]

Love that guy.

[Nick]

He's hilarious. We love him. Also, big reality TV fan. So excited for Chris to join our show. And just a reminder, Janet is the worst.

[Max]

I mean, in case you didn't know.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

In case you didn't know. In case you forgot. It's. It's. You know, usually people. People make mistakes. She makes them all the time. It's like, maybe it's just not a mistake. Maybe it's just who she is.

[Max]

I feel like Janet is the person on the plane who hates babies.

[Peter]

Yes.

[Natalie]

I agree.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Honestly, that woman kind of was giving a little Janet energy.

[Peter]

Yeah. You know, it's just.

[Natalie]

I don't know. I would like to think that maybe having a kid softened her, but it doesn't seem like it really quite has.

[Peter]

I feel like Janet gives. Like, her kid's fine, but her kid is better than any other kid. And any other kid is probably a demon from hell, you know?

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Peter]

That's how Janet reads to me.

[Natalie]

Have y' all been seeing what Justin Bieber is? Is what's going on in the Justin Bieber, Hailey Bieber camp of it all?

[Max]

Yes. Because it will not go away. I see it everywhere. I open Instagram, it's there. I open TikTok, it's there. And I can't look. It's partially my fault because I can't look away. But, like.

[Natalie]

And I've always been on the side of, like, protect Haley, Justin. Let's leave them alone. Like, all of this outside nonsense is so annoying. Blah, blah, blah, whatever. But the recent stuff that's been. That just the caption under her Vogue cover.

[Max]

Shall we read?

[Peter]

Starting with that dramatic read.

[Max]

Okay.

[Natalie]

Yes. And then. But then going into his performance with Sza, so. But starting with Haley got the COVID of American Vogue, which that is, like, just the hardest thing. Big. It's what any model could have ever dreamt of in their entire life, is like, American Vogue cover. And he posts her cover, and he says, yo, this reminds me. When Haley and I got into a huge fight, I told Hails that she would never be on the COVID of Vogue. Yikes. I know. So mean. For some reason, because I felt so disrespected, I thought, I gotta get even. I think as we mature, we realize that we're not helping anything by getting even. We're honestly just prolonging what we really want, which is intimacy and connection. So, baby, you already know, but forgive me for saying you wouldn't get a Vogue cover, because clearly I was sadly mistaken. Huh.

[Nick]

It's a weird time to make. To talk about a perceived growth moment for you.

[Max]

But then he also deleted it and changed the caption to just a bunch of emojis. Cryptic emojis, just random emojis.

[Nick]

He deleted it, clearly, after he got yelled at by his wife.

[Max]

Yeah, but this is the thing.

[Natalie]

It's like, you knew, like, this is a massive moment for Haley. And then to, like, you know that this will make headlines. You know that this is, like, not a supportive caption.

[Nick]

He thinks that way, though.

[Natalie]

A hundred. He's been in this industry for so long, if he doesn't, then he needs.

[Peter]

To, like, hand over the past, have.

[Natalie]

A better team around him.

[Max]

What I was thinking at first was just like, okay, this is his humor. This is their relationship. Like, they clearly. They clearly have this, like, fun, little jokey relationship. Right? But then it's like the public perception about their relationship is that he hates her. That's what most people are, like, speculating. And so it's like you're just feeding into it by putting a caption up like this. It's like, it's fine if that's your relationship, but, like, careful.

[Nick]

His behavior online recently has been odd. Yeah, I think it's. To put it kindly. But then with his performance, it's hard to talk shit because he did compliment my sweater once and was very lovely, very kind, very lovely to both me and my. My wife Natalie. So it's just. It's. It's odd behavior. I just feel like he's been through a lot. I don't know.

[Natalie]

But, yeah, like, I would never give the, like, specifics. Like, people say crazy things when they're mad. And, like, for him to have given the specific words he said to her, like, and it's because I felt disrespected and I had to get even. So then everyone's being like, well, why'd you feel disrespected? What did Haley do to you? Like, you're just opening it up to so many more conversations that aren't about Haley on the COVID of Vogue.

[Nick]

It just reminds. It just. It reads like, you know, like when you have an announcement of some kind and people will say, you know, that one time, like, they reflect on a moment, you know, where it's. You know, they try to tell a story like he. Like he was. But it's just like he's. He's telling it as if, like. Like people are going to pat him on the back or like this is a sweet moment. Like, it reads from his mind that he thinks he's being sweet.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Like he's showing personal growth or. Or whatever. And, oh, by the way, I'm really proud of my wife. But yeah, all it does is, you know, what I take from her moment.

[Max]

It's giving. Like, you make it big. You're accepting your Oscar or whatever. And you're like, that one professor back in college said I'd never make it and look at where I am. So fuck you to that professor. Or like, thank you to that professor for lighting the, you know, the fire under my ass. But it's like in this situation, Justin Bieber is the professor and he's her husband.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

It's crazy, you know. You know that she got pissed and yelled at him. And the reason why you just got a bunch of emojis is because he was like, fine, I'll just change it. And he, like, was kind of a smart ass and was like, I'll just do emojis then.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Which, like, kind of makes it worse.

[Peter]

I know.

[Nick]

Makes it totally worse. That's what it is. It makes it way worse. Because that's not an apology. It's like, fine, I'll change it. Whatever. That was a defiant Justin. Yeah. Being a smart ass and like, just putting emojis, which is basically like another. Yeah.

[Max]

And then you have the scissor of it all where he was, like, holding her hand and kissing her hand.

[Natalie]

Haley was in the audience. She was recording. You know, I know that she is a huge fan of, obviously the both of them. They've worked together on, you know, a couple of songs in their careers. But that the way that Justin Bieber is around every other woman but his wife.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Is alarming. The smile that lights up on his face when he is around any other woman but his wife is alarming. Like, I have never seen him interact with Haley publicly the way that he interacted with Sza on stage in front of millions of people.

[Peter]

It's crazy. I've been. This is a weird, like, comparison to make, but I've been rewatching the Last Dance, the Michael Jordan documentary, and for any last dance.

[Nick]

You're just getting to that.

[Peter]

I've watched it. Watching it. I watched it. I had Covid when I watched it, so I didn't fully process, and I watched the Knicks game and got inspired. Um, but anyway, it's. I feel like Justin Bieber is at the same time, Michael Jordan and Jerry Krause. Like, he is his own Jerry Krause and that.

[Nick]

Like, I don't know how many people listening to this understand that reference.

[Max]

For all.

[Peter]

For all you Last Danceheads and any Bulls fans out here.

[Max]

I remember Danny watching it.

[Peter]

Yeah, he just needs a pippin.

[Max]

You know what? I'm really interested in JoJo Siwa and Chris Hughes's relationship because they are together. I mean, they just are at this point. Like, they were photographed physically.

[Nick]

I did speak with JoJo the other day. I can confirm that she is really happy.

[Max]

Okay.

[Peter]

So whatever that means.

[Natalie]

I mean, I think anyone posting a photo of a man's hand wrapped around your leg.

[Peter]

Yeah. Seems like a hard launch to me.

[Nick]

You think that's a hard launch photo?

[Max]

That is a hard launch photo.

[Peter]

If I saw that from anyone, if I saw a man's veiny hand on someone's face, thigh, I would be like, they're together.

[Nick]

Do you think how you keep your car, like, tells everything about who you are?

[Max]

I hope not.

[Peter]

I have six coffee cups in my car right now, so I sure hope not.

[Nick]

Yeah, I don't agree either. Kris Jenner seems to think it says everything about you. It does speak to your organizational skills, I'll give her that. Yeah, like, I'm not an organized person.

[Natalie]

And you're disciplined because it's like you. You get out of your car every day. Do you want to grab the trash or do you want to leave it in there? Do you have the discipline to grab it and throw it in the trash can? Or are you gonna leave it in there because you're a little lazy?

[Nick]

It's a micro discipline.

[Natalie]

Nick still has the breast pump that I gave him to give you Leia that I never used in his trunk. So, Nick, I don't know.

[Peter]

I. I have this issue where I will literally bring. So I'll drink a coffee on my way in, but I don't put it in A travel mug. I just use a regular mug, and I fully just bring that mug in my car, and then it just stays in my car, and I know it's psychotic.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Peter]

That's why half the time I come in here, I have a coffee stain on my shirt, and I know it doesn't make sense, and I know it's insane to me.

[Natalie]

I love taking a roadie and a coffee mug.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Max]

With a lid, though. No, no.

[Natalie]

But I do bring it inside when I get back home.

[Peter]

Yeah, I. I don't do that. And they stack up. I literally have my entire pantry in my car. I'm aware it's a psycho thing to do, but that's, like, my one thing that I've tried to change, and I just cannot knock the habit of. So Kris Jenner would probably think I'm a extremely disorganized, messy person, and she may be right.

[Max]

I did read somewhere, though, that the messier you are, it just means that you're more creative, period.

[Natalie]

Oh, my God. Y' all love this. Y' all love this game. Where did you read that?

[Max]

I don't know.

[Natalie]

In your own notes app? Did you write it yourself?

[Max]

My therapist told me people are always.

[Natalie]

Like, people who smoke weed are way smarter than anyone who doesn't smoke weed. People who don't do laundry are way more intelligent than people who do. It's like y' all are making up.

[Max]

So it gets me through that, you guys. We have to have.

[Natalie]

Messy cars are so creative.

[Nick]

Anyways, props to Kris Jenner. Her new face. Her new face is. Have you seen her new face? Yeah, it's pretty impressive.

[Max]

She's got a great face.

[Nick]

No notes.

[Peter]

Yeah. The money she paid is money well spent. And it looks incredible.

[Nick]

You know, it looks really great.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

I feel bad for just the other, like, grandparents in Kris Jenner's grandchildren's lives, because you know, that they don't look the same way that Kris Jenner does. So I feel like all of the kids are like, Grammy Sally Lou's grandma doesn't look like you do. You know, like, she's 80 and she looks 80.

[Nick]

You really think Kris Jenner's hanging out with other with poor they go to school with?

[Natalie]

I would imagine. I don't think she hangs out with them, but, like, who these kids go to school with, if they go to their friend's house and they see a grant, you know, like, that doesn't mean Kris Jenner's hanging out with them.

[Nick]

I just feel like wherever their kids go to school, I feel like they all have enough money to get that type of work if they wanted it.

[Max]

I've never seen that good of work before. Yeah, this was a plus.

[Natalie]

Yeah, she set the standard.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Max]

Before we move on from Jenner Kardashian land, though, I do need to give a quick round of applause to Kim for graduating law school.

[Nick]

It wasn't law school.

[Max]

What? No. She graduated law school. It was six years.

[Nick]

It was like an online course. I think she is allowed to like take the bar, but I don't think it was officially law school.

[Peter]

It was. So rather than attending law school, Kardashian didn't graduate from college. So she planned to do a four year apprenticeship with a law firm in San Francisco and then take the bar in 2022. That's allowed under California law. But Covid stretched the timeline. She passed the so called Baby Bar in December 21st. After a fourth swing at the test in March of this year, she passed the multi state professional responsibility exam. A passing MPRE score is required before a person attempts to pass a bar in the United States. Kardashian hasn't revealed yet when she will attempt to pass the California bar exam. The two day test is administered twice a year in February and July.

[Nick]

What's the baby bar?

[Peter]

Maybe it's just like the pre test, like the psat. I don't know. I didn't go to law school. I don't know.

[Nick]

I mean, props to her though. I mean, cool accomplishment.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Max]

The baby bar is a first year law students exam required in California for students at unaccredited law schools or those studying law through alternative methods. Yeah, whatever. Okay.

[Nick]

She's.

[Peter]

Hey, she's doing the damn thing.

[Natalie]

She is. Yeah.

[Max]

More than I did. I didn't go to law school.

[Peter]

I didn't go to law school either, obviously.

[Nick]

All right, well, up next, our friends Max and Peter Murgatroyd join us to talk a little secret lives of Mormon wives. And then following that, we'll get into the Summer house finale and a little Atlanta Housewives. Since Phaedra is back in town. And on our screens once again, let's bring out Max and Peter.

[Natalie]

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[Nick]

I've been using One Skin for some time now and if you haven't notice, just I don't look my age. And you can have the same success as well by just trying out one skin. One Skin was founded in 2016 by an Alt Woman team of scientists with PhDs in skin regeneration, stem cell biology, immunology and bioinformatics. After testing the efficacy of more than 900 so called anti aging peptides, they developed the OS1 peptide, the first ingredient to reverse skin's biological age by reducing the accumulation of sentient cells. A key driver of skin aging, OS1 works at the cellular level to improve key aging biomarkers while the visible signs of aging, including lines, wrinkles and sagging skin.

[Natalie]

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[Nick]

Max and PETA, welcome to the show. How you doing? I think, Peter, you've been on one other time, right? Max is your first time. Yes.

[Peta]

Thanks for finally having, finally letting him on.

[Natalie]

He's been begging. He's been knocking down the door.

[Nick]

Well, when I was, when I was dancing partners with PETA, there was speculation that Max and I were in a secret love affair. So I had to put those rumors to rest. Yeah. Yeah.

[Sierra]

Yes.

[Natalie]

Is that real?

[Nick]

Maybe. Well, I was pretty obsessed with him. Yeah, he's a handsome guy. He's handsome. We had a good looking.

[Peta]

Nice, nice relationship.

[Sierra]

It was nice.

[Nick]

Yep. Yeah.

[Natalie]

PETA, did you. Was there any part of you that thought that, like, Nick would win or were you like, that's so sweet. He's so sweet.

[Nick]

You can be honest.

[Peta]

Peter, on the spot within 30 seconds.

[Nick]

Was I better than you thought I would be?

[Sierra]

Yeah, no, you were, you were decent. You weren't terrible at all. I think your nerves just got the better of you.

[Nick]

Like, yeah, 100. Yeah, I was way better after I got eliminated.

[Sierra]

Right. When we came back and did a little diddy again. Yeah, you were better, but you were.

[Peta]

You were memorable and that's what's important. There were a lot of great, great dancers. You can't remember.

[Nick]

I honestly think most people would forget that I was on that show, but thank you for saying Max.

[Peta]

I don't think so.

[Nick]

I appreciate the kind words. Before we dive into some secret lives and what you guys have been up to, I do want to, like, tell us a very sentimental story with, you know, comes with a little bit of sadness. And Peter, you know, I think you know what I'm talking about. But obviously not too long ago, Natalie and I opened up and shared about our misfortunes when it, when it came to the miscarriages that Natalie experienced. And upon the second. Well, after Natalie had her first miscarriage, my mom, who follows PETA on Instagram was like, you know who you need to reach out to? You need to reach out to PETA, because PETA, obviously, if you follow PETA, sadly has experienced her own miscarriages and has been open, very open, and has shared her story on her social media. And so when we were at the doctor's office, finding out that now I was beginning to miscarry again, I was literally in the doctor's office, and I was thinking, I got to reach out to PETA, you know, now I was really going through it. We've obviously talked about just how alone, you know, you feel when going through that process.

[Natalie]

And I think he even, like, mentioned to our doctor, like, we've got this friend.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

Oh, really?

[Natalie]

And we should reach out to her. Yeah.

[Nick]

That day, because we're. Yeah, we're in the. Our doctor's office and she's, you know, trying to, you know, say the right things and make us feel better and, you know, talked about, like, just, like, having a community. And. Yeah, I brought PETA up and Natalie had. We had to stop at Shout out to cvs. We had to stop and get some prescriptions for Natalie. And we get. We. We leave the doctor's office, we drive to cvs. I'm in line and I see this blonde woman in front of me, and I'm like, man, that looks a lot like PETA, but there's no way that's PETA. Yeah.

[Sierra]

And sure as shit, that day, like, coming out in my pajamas and slippers and my hair rolled up in a.

[Nick]

Bun, and you look fine. You look fine. But I was just like, there's no way, you know, and sure as shit, there you were. And it just. You know, I'm not a very spiritual person, but it seemed. It was a very crazy. It really felt like a moment, and I could not believe it was a truly, like, one. Like a very. I don't even know how to describe.

[Natalie]

It, but, like, there's a lot of cvs and the fact that we ended up at the same CVS at the same time after talking. Talking about you.

[Nick]

Literally the one person in this universe I would. Wanted to run into in that moment so that I, you know, because I really didn't have the words, you know, I really didn't know what to say to Natalie in that moment. And. And really, it was just like my friend PETA and I, you know, then we. We had talked and I'm like. And I'm like, can you come out to the car? And PETA came out to the parking lot and consoled Natalie and. And. And shared some, you know, very sentimental things. And. And honestly, it was a huge. It was a huge help to both of us. So it was a. It was a very. Beau was great running into you and, you know, I don't know, you know, signs or whatever, but it was. It was a very special moment. So, anyways, thank you for. For doing that for us. But for.

[Sierra]

I, like, it was so. Such a special moment and so. Serendipitous. Is that the right word? Serendipitous?

[Nick]

Yeah. Serendipity is a great movie. It was.

[Sierra]

It was like, I couldn't believe that you were behind me, and I was actually thinking. I remember saying to you, I was like, oh, is she pregnant? And then you were like, no, it's actually the opposite. And I. My face just. I felt terrible for even, you know, saying, is she pregnant? When it was the opposite kind of thing. And to be able. Look, it's so hard when you're going through something like that, because nothing's really going to make you feel better in that moment. Like, you're in it. You're in, like, the worst part of it. And, like, for me, when we were going through it multiple times, like four times, nothing he could really say was comforting to me because all I wanted it was to try again the next month to try again, and I couldn't even get it in my head that, like, I need to relax. I need to just chill and wait for it to happen. When it. When it's going to happen, it's going to happen. So, you know, kudos to you, babe, for, like, you know, even listening to what I had to say, because in that moment, you're just distraught, you're upset, you're sad, angry, like, everything, so. But I'm happy that I could say something that would maybe be comforting.

[Natalie]

No, you did. Yeah, you definitely. That was a tough moment for me. And to. I think you kind of were just like, there's nothing that I can say to you. And it was just like that comforting feeling of. Because I felt like people kept trying to say stuff to me, and I was like, it's not helping. It's not helping. That's not helping. And then for you to just be like, I can't say anything, honestly, like, you just have to feel this. And it was like, oh, thank God. Yeah, you're right.

[Sierra]

Thank you for that through this rough time. Yeah. And just deal with it and get on with it when you're ready, too. It's like, yeah, everyone would Say to me, peter, you're fine. Don't worry about this one. Like, just get over it. You'll get pregnant soon. And I was like, almost like, shut the fuck up. Like, don't keep saying that to me. Just like, let me cry for a whole day, at least a day. Just like, leave me alone.

[Natalie]

Well, you now have three healthy baby boys. How is everything at home doing? Are you. Is it a madhouse?

[Sierra]

It's utter chaos. It's mad. It's like herding chickens because two of them are obviously still in diapers. And Shy is 8 years old, so he's like our little helper. But I cannot believe I have. We have three children.

[Nick]

How many months apart are the two youngest?

[Sierra]

I said, like, 13 months.

[Peta]

They're under. Under. Under 12 months, actually. Under 13 months. Under 13 months. We have a June and the July.

[Sierra]

June and July die. So, yeah, wow. It was very unplanned.

[Peta]

And everybody's looking at me like, I knew that this was gonna happen. Above me.

[Sierra]

Yeah. No, it's actually funny, though, because we had a moment when I found out that I was pregnant again, like three months postpartum, and I had just started back dancing again. I had my body back feeling, you know, I was feeling pretty much myself. We had started, you know, going on date nights again. We had, you know, just been.

[Peta]

Maybe had two, you know, but getting.

[Sierra]

Back into it and then, bang, pregnant again.

[Peta]

He cried, like, immediately in the bathroom.

[Sierra]

We were both together just in shock, thinking, how are we going to do this? Because we were in an apartment. We didn't have enough room, you know, we needed to move. We were just. I was in middle of the season. He was crying because he knows what's happening up, happening next, you know. And then I was crying because I.

[Peta]

Was like, day three had to be postponed for like another year and a half, you know.

[Sierra]

So, yeah, so it was like we were shell shocked, but obviously super happy as well. It was just like a juxtaposition of emotions. Just like, oh, my gosh, how are we going to do this?

[Nick]

But it really is the unit, the universe really telling you. You don't get to pick, you know, you don't get to plan life, so to speak. Big.

[Sierra]

Yeah, exactly.

[Peta]

I wanted to say I had that. When we just moved to Malibu, it was the. It was in the heels of, I think, one of the first miscarriages. And at that point was already two too many. And we just moved to get the hell away from whatever that space area we wanted, you know, the ocean. I mean, how lucky we are to even talk about moving to having moved to Malibu at some point. Anyway, it was a fantastic spirit. But I remember first week we got there, I'm in the park with shy and this lady comes up and she just started talking and she had two kids and that. She said the same thing. She's like, when, you know, we were trying to. Actively trying to have them. Didn't work, didn't work, didn't work. Ivf, didn't work, decided screw it, went to a vacation, and then after that, got pregnant back to back. And it seems like it was our mom moment. Although that lady is no one that I knew. We've never seen her again, but it felt that way. But then again, the second part that you guys just said, it has nothing to do with any of this. It's. It's about you. And when you get over it. And it's so hard to witness and see from the side that realization that I. I can't. Completely powerless. Everybody around me is also powerless. I can't get anybody to help me with this because it's just about how strong the person is. And so all the kudos to all the ladies that go through the stuff because it's literally just you by yourself.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

How did you guys work on. On staying connected through all that trauma? Obviously, because, you know, when. When couples experience any kind of trauma, it's very easy to disconnect. And in moments when you don't know what to say, you know, I think often, like, us guys tend to not say anything at all. And I remember when Natalie experienced her first miscar. I had this kind of epiphany of just realizing just how quickly it is to disconnect in the. In those. In those moments when you have these very difficult times. But obviously you guys got through it and made it to the other side. But how are you able to do that?

[Sierra]

Oh my gosh, that's. I think it's a tough question. We went through so much shit, like, with him being in Ukraine at the time of the war as well. I was having a miscarriage. Like, during that time, there was so much shit piled on top of us that we have been through. And I'm really proud to say that we're still here, married with three kids and super happy. Like, I think that's a really big sort of pat on the back for us because, yeah, those moments were extremely difficult and isolating and where I don't want to leave the house because I don't want to see anybody. I don't want to be happy. He's trying to make me happy. And he was amazing. But also it's hard for him too because he doesn't know what to say. He can't say, babe, we'll try again later. Because it's just nothing seems to work.

[Peta]

We're also part of generation that, that started to be, you know, happy couples themselves. And a lot of our friends are getting pregnant and having babies and we're celebrating them quietly, not celebrating at home. And so it's also like, it's not a pat on the back. It's more like that's what couples have to overcome. And, and it may seem like, well, what do you have to worry about? Look at your life. It's beautiful, it's sparkly and stuff, but it's the emotional, you know, behind closed doors, nobody really knows what you go through. I want to say what kept us together, I think it more so exposed the us as a couple. That is a couple for the right reasons. We didn't just get together for. And I think that's the difficulty nowadays is that people get together for the beautiful times for, or in the beautiful moments. We never, you know, it's rare that you have a near death experience and then you're like, oh my God, this is my person. Right. Usually it's in a beautiful setting, you guys have a gorgeous date and you fall in love. When you experience these type of things is when you find out if it's really the person for you, you know. And I think that we found out about each other a lot. But most importantly about out, I found out about me towards Peter, you know, exactly what my feelings are, exactly how I feel about, you know, my role for the rest of our life together. This is a without a doubt person that I want to spend that, that, that lifetime with. And so it made me realize a lot of things about myself. It's very, it was very hard for me to be nurturing because I'm like, that stuff kind of like, get up, let's go. Let's just, just 10 more push ups. You'll be fine. You know what I mean? Pat in the back.

[Sierra]

I literally, I remember saying to you, like, I need time to sit in my bed and cry. Like, just leave me alone for a second. Don't bring me anything, just let me cry. Because the pain was too great to just get up and going again, you know, and then celebrate somebody else who, which I did many times, go and celebrate somebody who was pregnant. But it was very, it was tough.

[Peta]

On the inside, but, but it's the. It's the. It's the reality. It's real love. I. I just want to point it out, you know, if it's real, yeah, it'll survive all of this ups and downs.

[Sierra]

But to. To ask your question, too, like, we're also still trying to figure out things as well now with three small children and finding time for each other. This is literally why we're in Vegas by ourselves for two nights. To get away, to not have kids at the door, and to spend time because we realize we. We do disconnect a ton over the past two years. We really have had to work on it because the kids are coming first, and we have to separate it at some point and say they're fine, leave them with the nanny for two days. We're going to go away and do our own thing. And we're still working on that.

[Nick]

Yeah. Well, that's. I appreciate you guys sharing that. And I agree with you, Max, too. I. We. We've shared our initial honeymoon story where we got turned down at Turks and Caicos, but it was what. Yeah, we don't have to get into it, but we ended up having a lovely honeymoon two weeks later in Puerto Rico. But it. But to that point, in that moment, I actually, like, at the time, it was like, I can't believe this is happening. And Nelly was crying and, like, river was three months old. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is supposed to be, like, fresh off for the high of our wedding.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

But, like, that was the first moment. You know, we just got married, so. But it was the first moment where I felt like we had to come together as a family. We had to step up. Like, you know, it's. And honestly, I wouldn't trade that moment for anything because, like, you know, it's like, to your point, it's, It's. It's easy to go and have a good time on a beach and celebrate, you know, the good times. But, you know, when you. When you choose to come together during trauma or during disappointment or, you know, and things like that, you. You really feel like you have a partner. Partner. So, yeah, it's.

[Sierra]

It's.

[Nick]

It's weird how, though you look back and reflect on those moments versus, like, when it's happening in real time.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

100.

[Sierra]

Yeah. It's been a lot of stuff, but we're still here.

[Nick]

What are you guys doing in Vegas? Other. Other than connecting? Do you guys. What are you. Are you gambling you're going to shows? What, What's. What are you Guys doing.

[Sierra]

We'll have a little gamble for sure. I said to him when we were checking in, we got to do blackjack.

[Peta]

I love blackjack, just not a gambler.

[Sierra]

We're not bigger.

[Peta]

I may look it, but Uncle Val is more for the casino guy. I'm not again, but this is our stomping grounds. Peter and I share a lot of. A lot of fun time in Vegas. Like, just we used to work here.

[Sierra]

On and off, you know, dance shows. And he was choreographing the rev and stuff like that. So.

[Peta]

Shout out.

[Nick]

I heard there's some sort of like. Like EDM festival going on there right now. Is that true or do you guys hear anything?

[Peta]

Or we wouldn't know. We're not gonna.

[Sierra]

I went to though. That was amazing.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Peter]

Too.

[Peta]

See, she did so much stuff before our time together. We can't wait.

[Nick]

Do you guys follow, like, the casting of Dancing with the Stars? You guys keep up with that too much. They recently announced Alex Barrel and Robert. And Robert Irwin.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Any. Any thoughts on. On those two? As the season approaches.

[Peta]

Robert Irwin is a front runner. Right. I'm going to say right now.

[Sierra]

Yeah. As soon as he walked out shirtless. He's so nice. I mean, front runner up before the.

[Peta]

Shirtless in my op.

[Nick]

Does he even have to be good at dancing to win?

[Sierra]

No, not really.

[Peta]

Yes. No.

[Nick]

Yes.

[Peta]

A little bit.

[Sierra]

He doesn't have to be the best.

[Peta]

I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say the downfall here is that this is like, he's a. He's top. He's in the final.

[Sierra]

He's in the final November.

[Peta]

If he walks out and just flat lines into the. You know.

[Sierra]

Yeah. If you flatline and you're not giving it your all and you're not trying, you know? Yes. People can see that and won't vote, but he's not the guy try.

[Nick]

You know, he's definitely gonna try. He's a professional. Like, he comes from a very successful family. All. But he says he has to show improvement. Right. He just has to get better each week.

[Sierra]

Yes.

[Peta]

It's a perfect character to do that. I think he already has the foundation. I'm gonna. I'm just saying I think he's taking some. Some dense lessons. If he didn't, I would be surprised and shocked. Like, bro, you already own it. Go take some chacha lessons.

[Sierra]

Well, I'm sure Bindi has told. Told him what it's like, what you have to do to prepare. I mean, she won the show, but.

[Peta]

She was also there. I'M just saying practic practice. Like he has to have some physical. You know, I did that.

[Natalie]

Is there anyone from Secret Lives of Mormon Wives who you would want to see?

[Sierra]

Taylor for sure.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Sierra]

Yeah, I would love for her to do it. I'm kind of a big fan.

[Natalie]

Yeah, I'm a big fan of her too.

[Sierra]

I'm sure there's gonna be one of them on.

[Nick]

You think so?

[Sierra]

Yeah, I think so. I think the cross.

[Nick]

Well, I mean, it's, it's a very popular show right now. Max, have you. I did you. I know Pete has watched. Have you been watched? Have you watched at all?

[Peta]

Do I have a choice? It's on the giant screen TV every time I pass by.

[Nick]

So now are you like, are you, are you one of those husbands who like. Yes. Like, once you, you tune in and you start having an opinion and then like, are you, are you checked out?

[Peta]

No. Immediately.

[Nick]

No.

[Sierra]

He watches from the Kick Kitchen secretly. Like you can see him like doing one of these ones.

[Peta]

I'm feeding my. I'm feeding number two, Rio, and he's like, he's watching a little bit and I'm watching a little bit crazy. But if it hooks me, then I come in, I'm like, I can't believe she said that. Three episodes ago. She said something. But with that show specifically, I'm like, I'm just having so many, you know, it's so intriguing just because it's from, you know, it's about religion based. You know what I mean? It's just, it's not computing with me.

[Nick]

Well, you guys, you guys, actually, you've, you're fairly familiar with the Mormon religion. A lot of your dancing partners and other professionals, like the, the Mormon community has like a strong dancing legacy, like, right.

[Peta]

That's why, like, probably 47 of those Mormon wives definitely have some kind of dance background. So I wouldn't be surprised that there's some, you know, you don't like her character, but you do not see some dancing. You know what I mean? So I think there's going to be that type of casting.

[Nick]

Peter, who's, who's, who's your favorite and least favorite of the group of women?

[Sierra]

Oh, well, my opinion changed this season. My favorite is Taylor just because she's so raw, she's so authentic. She puts everything out there and really doesn't let the show hinder her with like her vulnerability. And I think other people are definitely holding back in their personal lives, like what is actually going on. And I would say my least favorite right now is Demi, because she's come out like the villain. It's just.

[Natalie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

It's really tough because, like, this usually, you know, like, we get to meet a lot of these characters on TV a lot. We. You know, a lot of the people we talk about, we. We don't. And you're. So. We're usually just talking about their edit. You know, we recognize it's an edited show, so we're really talking about characters, but we. You know, Natalie and I have really gotten to know these women pretty well, and, like, Demi is someone we've gotten to know and meet, and we've enjoyed our interactions with Demi, and so sometimes.

[Natalie]

It'S, like, a little shocking.

[Nick]

It's been tough to watch this season with demons. Me. Yeah.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Max]

No, I'm sure.

[Sierra]

Because obviously, I've never met her, and my opinion could be completely swayed in the other direction if I did. But her edit this season is giving. Like, I want to cause trouble.

[Nick]

We've also gotten to know the other women as well, and. And they would say, this is not an edit. This is.

[Natalie]

Well, I mean, it's hard to say it's an edit when it's like, just the things coming out of her mouth. You know, it's. It's like after Jen's apology video and her being like, I don't buy it. I was. That was harsh.

[Nick]

Yeah. I was like, she's just like, man, she seems to be really struggling with her mental health, and, like, man, she's, like, pregnant and like, oh, boy.

[Sierra]

What? Jen. Oh, my gosh.

[Nick]

Yeah, I know. And then you. You hear about this, like, the. The Vanderpump Villa.

[Peta]

No, I'm just saying reality tv. I will always hold my head on one sentence that was told very late in the game.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Peta]

If I was said that in my mid to late 2000s, my career may have been different, but I was told, like, yeah, you know, it. The edit. But if you didn't say it, we don't have it to use, you know, so it was like, man, that's so correct. If you don't say. If you say it, you're leaving it up to the editors to pick and choose what they want you to be represented by. I'm like, well, why don't you choose, you know, 30 hours of me being nice. You chose me being this way. So I. I sympathize with the types of that. Oh, you know, why are they portraying you as a villain? You're so nice in person. I'm like, nick, you know me, I'm very nice. In person. But I've also said it the nicest. I did say it on tv, anyway. I feel that way about those type of characters.

[Nick]

Yeah, I think for the most part, that's true. We were having this conversation with some. Some friends earlier today, and I've said this a million times, but I think more people actually are made to look better and more charming than they are in real life than actually actually made to look worse. I think, honestly, Bachelor is maybe more guilty of things because, like, to your point, Max, when you. Like a lot of what we're seeing this season with Demi, we're. We're seeing her in a confessional. We're seeing the words come out of her mouth, like we are watching it. There's lots of times, for example, depending on the edits, like Bachelor is notorious for, you'll see someone walking and having an interaction and you hear their voice, right? And so. It's like. It's like a so. And they could be. They could have been saying that about someone else three weeks ago and a pickup. And then it's like, okay, that. That's context. That's been completely changed. But when it comes to this show, there's very little of that. There's. You're. You're seeing the words coming out of these women's mouth, and it's. And I think it's. I also think it's a lot harder when it comes to a recurrent. You know, we're in season two, right? I mean, we didn't know. Know if season one was, you know, when season one came out, you know, you don't know how successful it's going to be. But when you have a recurring cast and you have an ensemble cast, it's a lot harder for a production company to get away with changing storylines or putting things out of context because you're going to have characters call it out, right? You're. You know, if you're. If you're screwing over half the cast, they're going to be like, this is bullshit and you'll lose your cast. Right? Bachelor gets away with it because it's. It's 30 new people every season. And, you know, if one or two people are made to look bad, the everyone else who's looking good is like, yeah, that's just who they are, and things like that. But when it comes to this, with this show, I think it's easier to believe that what they're showing us is most more honest than not. And if anything, there are things we don't get to see because they're being taken out of the show, and there's actually more tea and more things that could be exposed that are not being exposed.

[Sierra]

Totally. I mean, in talking on that point, I was thinking, was there more context to when Demi went. Ran to her husband and said that he put his hands on her? Because I was like, what I saw, like, I would never run to my husband and say, this guy put his hands on me. Because that sentence is so big, and so it implies such a. A such a force, you know, And I just did not agree with that whatsoever. And then I was wondering. I was like, wait, something else must have happened, because it couldn't have been the little poke in the side that he did to her, because that's insane.

[Nick]

The big question is, is the thing that happened. What happened in Vanderpump Villa with this Marciano guy and all, you know, and that. And that was filmed before even season two was filmed. And we've heard this from the women and, you know, accused me of. Of playing chess and being, you know, attempting to be multiple steps ahead. And it's. It's just the more you watch this season with Demi, like, coming after Taylor, coming after Jen, trying to, like, you know, it's, you know, coming after Jess, like, you know, the. The Jay Z style stuff. Well, like, it's just like the way I forgot what episode. I don't know if it's eight or nine or whatever. And when Demi's, like, crying and, like, yelling at the rest of the women and being like, I'm loyal person in this group. No one is as good of a friend like me. And, like, this is following her, trying to get Jess kicked off the show because just wouldn't. Just wouldn't basically just was willing to take less money than Demi. And Demi wanted all the women to collude together to get more money. This was after the Jay Z Styles and her kind of talking shit about Jesse's business. And it's just like, where. Where's the. I mean, again, I. I hate saying this because I've really enjoyed my time with Demi, but, like, it's like, it's hard to defend what we're seeing here. We've heard. We've heard from Macy and Michaela. They accused me of last season being willing to fake an affair with Dakota.

[Natalie]

Which I. I saw. Brett responded to that and kind of said that all of the wimp producers, I guess, had asked, like, what are we going to do for the finale? And all the women were kind of throwing out these, like, crazy ideas and all of them were kind of jokes, as Brett recalled. And so to, oh, I should have this, like, alleged affair with Dakota, implying, like, we're all swingers. Like, maybe that would be so fun.

[Nick]

Maybe. Which I could give them that. Which I could give them that. I don't know. I don't. I don't know if I would joke about that, but it's possible. It's. Maybe it was all jokes, but it's. It's been tough watching to me.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

But I will say that pregnancy roulette was cruel. It was in episode nine where they all were in Louisiana and they all took pregnancy tests. Two of them knowing they're pregnant. Laila was like, I have this fun game. It's pregnancy roulette. Demi's been so open about her fertility struggles. And Demi even says before they play the game, like, this feels cruel. Like, I don't know if I want to do this because she, like, hasn't seen a positive pregnancy test since her last child, and she's been wanting that so much. And so they play the game and there's one and she gets emotional, and then she pulls out it, and it's pregnant on the one that she pulls. And it's like this. Michaela and Macy are the two. It's not hers. It's Michaela and Macy's who are pregnant.

[Peta]

So bad.

[Nick]

That's fucked up.

[Natalie]

So crow.

[Peta]

So bad.

[Natalie]

That's so just like, an awful game to play with someone who's been so open about their struggles with getting pregnant to be like, oh, how funny would this be if you, like, pulled out a positive pregnancy test? Let's get your reaction. So I was definitely team to me on that. That was game, honestly, like, maybe some.

[Sierra]

Of her, like, ways that she's dealing with people this season is due to all of this, you know, because when you're trying to have a baby, I don't know, I'm just thinking of the reasons why.

[Natalie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sierra]

So quickly. Like, when you're so desperate and in that desperation mode, maybe she's just gone off the rails a little bit and, you know, personality.

[Nick]

Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Maybe that's it. But like, her. Her. Her confidence in herself to call her self the, like, the way she is, like, you know, she's called herself the fan favorite. She's called herself the most loyal. You know, she's just very. She's very quick to be loud about herself.

[Peta]

Like, but those are. Those are the types, you know, when.

[Sierra]

Never say that out loud.

[Peta]

They have to scream it out about themselves. Chances Are you don't feel that way by your. Yourself either?

[Nick]

You know, the part I was most uncomfortable watching back and I, you know, because I've watched it a few times now was when, you know, the. The secret Sunday or what. I think what it was where one of the. One of the things randomly accused Brett of. Of cheating on Demi.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And then they had the off mic moment before the off mic moment where here she is trying to talk to Brett about this accusation, and then she throws out a bunch more rumors about her husband is a way almost to deflect.

[Natalie]

Yeah. Her being like, there's been so many rumors about you. Like that one that you cheated on your first wife, the one that you were like a drug addict and you went to rehab. The one about you.

[Nick]

And you can tell Brett is just like, what are you saying? Why are you saying. Why would you say that on tv? Like, it was like, really uncomfortable. And the more I hear the women say she's playing chess, not checkers and things like that, it just kind of makes you wonder if, like, if Demi is this very calculated in a way that's like. Seems kind of malicious. But I want to give her the benefit of the doubt because again, I've. We've. I've. She's always been lovely to me. I don't know. I actually hate saying that because when, you know, just be. I guess because. I guess just because she's lovely to me doesn't mean anything. Is not true. But I don't. I don't want to talk shit on a friend or anything, but.

[Sierra]

Right. Yeah.

[Nick]

It's like, damn. It's like.

[Peta]

But also, it's your job now, Nick. You need to realize.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Peta]

You gotta keep your. Keep your neutrality.

[Nick]

I keep it real. You know, I gotta keep it real.

[Natalie]

It is hard to watch some of the things.

[Peta]

Part of the cast. They also feel some kind of way about these. So this is where I come in and she's. She's like, after. Was it 11 decade plus years of us together? She's like, you know what? Stay away. Because if I come in, then I'm some like, wait a minute. Did she really mean it? Or is this like a ploy or is this a plot like you said? Chess, checkers.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Peta]

For me.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Peter]

You don't make it.

[Natalie]

You. You take the fun out of it.

[Peta]

Exactly. Yes. And so I try not to ruin it for her. But like, I come in, I'm like, But, you know, halfway through the casting. It's somebody casting these people. 20, 25. We know how to do that professionally. There's a line of people that I will look bad on tv, whatever that means. You know, I'll play the villain. I'll be the blah, blah. You know, I'll say outrageous things because it seems like it's easy. You think it's a strategic sort of casting where anybody can be portrayed another way. I mean, this is all.

[Sierra]

The villain is a top character. The villain is a big place to hold. That's.

[Nick]

That's a star.

[Sierra]

It's a star that's right up there with Taylor, you know, like, she's. She's competing with Taylor.

[Peta]

Every Batman needs a joker. You know what I'm saying?

[Nick]

No, that's. It's really true. And, And Demi's playing the. The. The role very well. It's. It's interesting a lot. Obviously, Jesse was on our show last week. Natalie asked Jesse if, you know, she noticed that Jesse wasn't wearing her. Her wedding ring. And Jesse and Natalie had a. An excellent question, props, by the way, and asked Jesse if Jordan, her husband, is the type of role model that she would want her daughters to look up. Up to some. Something like that.

[Natalie]

I think she only has one daughter, but, yeah, the type of man that she would want her daughter to.

[Nick]

And she didn't.

[Natalie]

She said no.

[Nick]

She said no and didn't really even think too hard on it. I think we're going to find out a lot more about this relationship in season three. I've heard from a very reliable source close to the situation, and I'm not going to say what it is, but what I will say if what I heard is true. Again, regardless of what this rumor is or not true about Marciano, whether Jesse actually, like, cheated on Jordan with Marciano. Not that it's ever justified to do that, but I think if what I hear is true and if. If that is revealed in season three, I think people are gonna quickly forget whatever Jesse did to Jordan, and I think they're gonna hate him.

[Sierra]

Wow.

[Natalie]

We'll have a new villain.

[Nick]

Yeah, it's. It's a. It's dark. It's. It. If. If it made me not like them.

[Sierra]

Oh, my gosh.

[Peta]

That's funny how you have, like, ironic and not funny. I don't know what the vernacular is. Like, you just. You. You turn one wrong and you out wrong it with something, you know, and.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Peta]

And it perpetuates the TV and the series. I mean, that's. That's the way you do it, you know? Right. Type of cast. It gives you everything. I just, You Know what. What is. What is to come of these characters? Like, what's the next step for.

[Nick]

They've all. I don't know. I mean, they're. They're very. I mean, as a show that covers these shows, right, like, I have a ton of respect for all of them. Because to your point, PETA, like, to play the villain is not easy. And all these women or, you know, say what you want about their lives or whatever, and it's so easy to judge people from afar. You guys know as much as anyone. You have friends, and you guys have been through your shit, and we've all been through shit. Like, no one's life is perfect. It's all messy. We all try to figure it out, but these women are willing to truly show it all on television, and they don't back down, and they keep going. And it's like, it's. It's almost as if they're just warming up. Because I hear is as crazy as season two is, that season three is out of control compared to season two.

[Sierra]

Are they already filming season three?

[Nick]

I think they're just done. Yeah.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Peta]

I mean, it's gonna come out so much. So much edgy television is coming out of Mormon Utah.

[Natalie]

Truly.

[Nick]

There's a lot I don't know. I think. Yeah, when you have. When you have a very devout religion, that. That brings a lot of shame to people. People need outlets, you know, And I think I honestly, you know, it's. I think. I think a lot of people have talked about, like, what makes this show so unique or what makes, you know, you got Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, which is, you know, for other us, one of the best Housewives franchises, because those characters are so compelling. I feel like there's this, like, an element of, like, I think, especially for the secret lives of Mormon wives and mom talk, you know, you have these young women, these moms who, you know, it sounds like, you know, they all. They all have their trauma, and they all have been shamed and. And. And guilted and. And told what's good or what's bad. Bad. And it must be very liberating for them to be able to speak for themselves, you know, like, even Jen and Zach, I mean, you know, who, by the way, again, we have on the show tomorrow, you know, you went from a relationship season one where you. Zach, kind of just very much demonstrated this very, you know, toxic masculinity, this very, like, very stereotypical, you know, man from a very conservative community. And listen, tomorrow you can find out, you can judge for yourself, what you think about the relationship. But what is clear is that, like, Zach has flipped a switch in terms of how he's approached it. But I can't help but wonder if it's because Jen feels more empowered to enforce a boundary. She feels, I think, more empowered to say, no, I'm going to do it my way now. I'm the breadwinner here. I'm the star. And, and, and not like, in a cocky way, but, like, again, you're talking about a community where men are dominant, you know, where we're literally this community of people. You're told that, like, a man is in charge of the family and a women's role is like, women's have. Women have roles, you know, a very specific role, and that is to, like, follow the man, you know. And so here you have these women who've been empowered by this show and by their success, and they can finally stand up. They have found a voice, and I feel like that voice gives them that confidence to show us who they really are. Because in a way, as much drama as it, I'm sure has brought their lives, it has freed them from a life of almost, you know, is that bound they. I feel, yeah, it's kind of fascinating that way, you know.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

But appeal.

[Sierra]

Because so much of the show is based around religion and, and sex talk. And I know that's just such a black and white thing to say, but it truly is. Sex is a huge, huge part of the show. That's what they talk about 90% of the time, and that's what people want to watch. The, the juxtaposition of the strong religion, the devout Mormon faith, and then them having a sex party. It's. It's a big change.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Peta]

And it's also the same type. But, yeah, maybe you're right because you, they. They keep it such a taboo to talk about growing up. It's like, yeah, there's an age that you. And then with that one person chosen for the rest of your life, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then to your point, maybe you just feel free and they go off. I just, I, I don't know. I find it.

[Sierra]

It's fascinating.

[Peta]

It's fascinating because you can. You can take the. You can take the devout route and you can take that through line. You could take the other route and like the promiscuous part of it and through line. And then you can pick and choose. Again, going back to the other point, you can pick this type of sound effect or this type of. What is this ont otf, right on the fly interview and insert it.

[Sierra]

But I like that they have. They can be both. That's what I like to see. Like, they. They can still go to church if they want to and do the other things, the promiscuous things, too. That's what I want to see. Because I believe you should be able to have both.

[Nick]

Yeah, no, it's. You're. It's an excellent point, Peter. They've really said I'm gonna. Which I respect, as someone who grew up very Catholic and conservative, is like, you can still. You can still have a connection to your faith and just, you know, even if you don't follow all the rules that, like, let's be honest, some man or some person a few hundred or a few thousand years ago, certainly not the beginning of time, time decided to write in a book. And it's like, you know what? I'm just gonna not do that. And you know what? Maybe. Maybe I'll still might be good. You know, it's just like, I. I love how they're kind of redefining what their faith means to them. Yeah. Yeah. It's just fascinating to watch. And I think we should all be grateful for all these women, for. For their honesty. I mean, it's. It's. It's. It's incredible television. And, you know, whether we criticize what we see on these episodes or, you know, things are. We're shocked by what comes out of their mouth. I'm still very, very grateful for the willingness to do that. Because if. If we're gonna sit down and be entertained by this. Yeah. You can judge the behavior, but I think you have to, you know, judging the person is harder to do, unless you're Janet from the Valley, because then it's. That's harder. Are you watching the Valley at all?

[Sierra]

I am. Yeah.

[Nick]

Isn't Janet the worst?

[Sierra]

I mean, again, I think I have another episode or two to watch, but yeah. Janet sun something. And we literally live in the same neighborhood.

[Nick]

Area.

[Sierra]

Area as them.

[Natalie]

Oh, funny.

[Nick]

Have you seen them out?

[Sierra]

I have not. It's just the. The weirdest thing. I haven't seen one of them, but.

[Peta]

And we. And we're that air one every day, so that is.

[Sierra]

That is chaos. That I cannot.

[Peta]

No, I think. I think I seen Jackson.

[Sierra]

Oh, you've seen Jacks. We go to Jax's bar sometimes, which is cool.

[Nick]

Really?

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Good.

[Max]

Yeah, it is.

[Peta]

It's great to watch a game.

[Sierra]

Yeah, it's good. Like, sporty thing.

[Nick]

Yeah. Okay.

[Natalie]

Okay.

[Peta]

But they're Going through problems. Talk about problems.

[Sierra]

Oh, yo.

[Nick]

Well, Max and PETA, it's, it's been great catching up with. We'll let you get back to your romance.

[Peta]

Yes.

[Nick]

In Vegas. Why don't you share it with my audience and plug and anything else you guys want to plug. Plug away.

[Peta]

I think we are fully enjoying the, the parenting at the moment. I have my vodka I'm very proud of. I don't know how pluggy I can get with this, but, you know, it's plug away, man. Incredible product that I'm very, very proud of. It's, you know, in alcohol industry, it's very difficult and especially nowadays to have something that's moving in positive direction. It's a, you know, big pat in the back. Watching Peter with, you know, her skincare line and you know, what she's doing with that company is incredible. We're just enjoying every day, you know, and then see what happens next season. 35 of Dancing Stars coming up.

[Sierra]

34, actually.

[Peter]

34.

[Peta]

We got that wrong. Yeah, it seems like 147, so. But what happens with that?

[Nick]

Max, would you ever come back as a professional in Dancing with the Stars?

[Peta]

Yes.

[Nick]

Okay. Because I always joke with people that, like, I'm just a really hard worker, but my wife is the star of the family, and I didn't know that when I met her. She was just a humble servant of the medical industry. But I've, I've, I, I talked to the powers that be and I'm like, not yet, not yet, but someday you're going to want to cast my wife on Dancing with the Stars. And so I believe it. I would be honored, Max, if you would, you know. You know, I don't know if I want to.

[Peta]

I mean, I'll take it. I'll take it.

[Nick]

He's only.

[Peta]

You know what it takes.

[Sierra]

Yeah.

[Peta]

You know, you've been in the trenches. You've been with a nice one. I'm gonna try.

[Natalie]

Wait, actually, I don't know.

[Nick]

I don't know if I can have, have there ever been. Has there anyone, like, done a second tour of Dancing with the Stars?

[Sierra]

What do you.

[Nick]

Has anyone done it twice? Like, if Nelly got casted, could we do be a husband and wife duo? Even though I've done it before.

[Sierra]

If it was an all star season, we've had people come back for all does. But that was the only time.

[Nick]

I mean, I would, I could be like, I'm very forgettable. No one would be like, they wouldn't even remember that I was on it the first Time.

[Natalie]

We'll just cut out everything we talked about in the beginning.

[Nick]

Yeah, you did a good job.

[Peta]

You're memorable.

[Nick]

But, yes, if Nelly went on, you know, I don't know. I don't know if. I don't know if I want to. You know, some of those. Some of those guys, I don't know, they got. They got some bad reps. I'm just kidding. But you, Max, I would. I would be.

[Peta]

I would take great care of, literally.

[Nick]

All right. Lot of fun. We're gonna call it now one day.

[Natalie]

Stars, Max.

[Nick]

All right, you two go have fun in Vegas. Thanks for coming on. I appreciate you.

[Sierra]

Thank you, guys. Thank you so much.

[Natalie]

Love you guys.

[Nick]

All right, take care.

[Sierra]

Bye.

[Natalie]

Bye.

[Nick]

Before we move on, is there any. Any. Any scenes from the final episodes we haven't really touched on?

[Natalie]

I mean, we have Demi yelling at Taylor's mom, which. That was just a crazy scene to watch.

[Nick]

It's just like this whole. Whole.

[Peter]

It's one thing to have beef with someone, but to have beef with someone's mom.

[Natalie]

I mean, okay, I will say Leanne showing up.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Like, you know, I would never fight Rivers battles as much as, like. I mean, when she's old enough to fight them herself, obviously.

[Max]

I was going to say they're there. The plane.

[Natalie]

No, when she's able to fight her own battle, she will fight her own battles. But. But I. Them doing the flashback to, like. Yeah. Her calling Whitney and being like, why aren't you at Taylor's baby shower? And then.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Her showing up with the gift and then sitting there to, like, argue back and forth with Demi. It's like Taylor and Demi have never been that close of friends. Like, I don't think it was worth it for Leigh Ann to get into it with Demi. Yeah, I think it. I mean, it only made Demi look worse. So maybe that was their.

[Nick]

I just don't know what the fuck Demi is talking about when it comes to. It comes to Taylor. Taylor.

[Peter]

I mean, just.

[Max]

It's the deflection.

[Nick]

I'll say this. You know, here's a. Here's a. Here's a story about Taylor. I have interviewed a lot of reality TV stars on this show. Hundreds. I don't know how many.

[Peter]

Many.

[Nick]

Taylor. Frankie Paul is the only person who, before I interviewed her, said, ask me anything. You can go as hard as you want. I'm. You know, she's like, don't. Don't hold. Hold back. And she said it in a way where she was like, yeah, I'll just. You know, she, like, she was up for the challenge in a way. You know, she really has nothing to hide. Sure, she can be messy. Yes, she can be a little toxic. By her own admission, she's far from a perfect person. You know what I'm saying? She truly is a reality TV star in its truest form. But she is, like, thoughtful of her peers. She shares the spotlight with her peers. She's a good person, like, you know what I'm saying? And she, she, yeah, she, like, again, she shares the spotlight where these stories that we're hearing about Demi from, you know, her talking shit about Jesse's business to, like, trying to throw Jesse under the bus when negotiating season two, just out of nowhere, going after Taylor and just, like, throwing these, like, accusations her way that just don't really add up. It's just like, I, I. It's weird.

[Max]

I think this is what it is. I think that in order to feel like she's queen bee, there always needs to be a common enemy. And so season one, it was Whitney, but now Whitney has come back, and she's being, like, so chill. So it's hard to continue putting Whitney in that role. Jen has kind of backed out because of her mental health. But even then, Demi tried to, you know, be like, I don't buy it when she sent that video. But now it's like, oh, okay, who else is there left to make common enemy number one? And it's Taylor, because Taylor is, you know, has all the drama with Dakota and is messy, and it's like. But people aren't backing her this time, and she's just confused because it's like.

[Nick]

I mean, that's a great. That's a great point, Leia. When you kind of follow those crumbs. It was like, first she tried to go after. I don't know which was first, but it was like she tried to go after Jesse. Didn't land. She tried to go after Jen. Didn't land. Land. Then she goes after Taylor.

[Leia]

Didn't land.

[Nick]

And it's almost as if that moment at the end of the season where she's crying to the rest of the women, being like, I would never act this way. Is this almost like a projection of, like, the frustration, the tears came from a place that her plan wasn't working. Yeah, in a way, if you really.

[Peter]

Think about it, is Demi up for the challenge of Taylor?

[Max]

Clearly not.

[Nick]

And I don't think anyone is. I. That's one person I would never fuck. Fuck with. But, you know, and you know why you don't fuck with Someone like Taylor, she's unafraid.

[Peter]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

You know, she is not trying to be perfect. She doesn't even really care about being the most liked. I mean she has a ton of critics and she's just, she is comfortably herself and authentically herself. So that's not the type of person you want to go up against in reality tv.

[Max]

Well, I think even Layla, Kayla's got nothing to lose. Yeah. Layla's even catching on to and it's like Layla's so scared of Demi. But it's like in a battle between Demi and Taylor, it's like I'm switching sides. I'm like I'm going to Taylor. Like I'm, I'm jumping off this ship as it's sinking.

[Peter]

Taylor is like the Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible of the Mormon Lives. Like she's going to do the stunts like if, if it's anyone versus Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible. Like I'm going to pick Tom Cruise and in the way that I'm going to pick Taylor. Cuz she'll do it and she'll win. Yeah, that's how I feel.

[Nick]

No, I mean it's, it's, it's really incredible. I also just shout out to south sourdough. Yeah, well, you know, sour. Sourdough has been a big part of my life in 2025. It's Leia, look up the health benefits of sourdough relative to regular bread because I don't know, I just, I have, I have swapped out all bread and replaced it with only sourdough. And I gotta say I'm, I'm feeling.

[Max]

I've got some, you know, it's easier to digest. Okay, so it's primarily due to the fermentation process. It's easier to digest, supports gut health and may help regulate blood sugar sugar levels. It also contains more beneficial nutrients and may improve nutrient absorption.

[Peter]

Why are we with other types of bread then?

[Nick]

Well, exactly. You know, I'm 44 years old, going on 45 and the fact that I just discovered. How delish not to just discovered but I would eat sourdough like if it was like offered as an option. Is this like part of the portfolio of breads? Be like, you know, I'll with sourdough today, you know, but like tomorrow I'll do like a multi grain. Yeah, but like given its taste coupled with its health benefits, like why would you do anything else? Just sourdough all the time.

[Peter]

I agree. A grilled cheese on sourdough, it's one of the best things you can have burger, sourdough.

[Nick]

I don't think you'd have a sourdough pizza.

[Peter]

Yeah, maybe not.

[Max]

I think that they do make sourdough pizza, though.

[Peter]

Sourdough pizza.

[Max]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I do believe Macy over Whitney.

[Max]

Oh. With her sourdough.

[Nick]

Macy claims that Whitney took her sourdough starter, and Whitney says it's a lie.

[Max]

And the other way around, I believe Macy in all situations. Like, if any of these women are up against Macy, I believe Macy.

[Peter]

Yeah. She seems like a. I believe. Like Michaela and Macy. I believe.

[Max]

But I am confused. Like, why? I mean, I'm not confused. I get it. But I'm like, Michaela is really holding strong to the fact that she will never be friends or forgive with Whitney.

[Peter]

I. I respect it. I love Whitney, but I respect what I.

[Nick]

What I love about it is that, like, it really seems like Michaela has really found her voice and she's found it through hating Whitney. And she seems, honestly, at least from season one, like, just healthier. Like, she's like, seems like a healthier version of herself. And I just never seen hate of that degree be so beneficial to one person. And so, I don't know.

[Peter]

It's beautiful. She really, she. I think it's also like, you're just a lot. You're allowed to just not fuck with someone. And I think Michaela just does not fuck with Whit. And she's like, I'm not going to just pretend I do for tv. I don't like you.

[Nick]

The only thing that, you know that Michaela's going to have to acknowledge at some point is that, like, she cares deeply about Whitney because you can't hate someone that much and not give a fuck about it. You'd be a different, you know, so it's like, you know, it's more. Yeah, there is that.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Max]

Oh, and then there was the whole CMA's drama, which we saw play out in real time. And then we saw Natalie, Justin and Sierra on the show, episode eight, and I'm happy.

[Nick]

That was a lot of profiles.

[Peter]

Yeah, Nick, we were cut out of that. How do you feel?

[Nick]

You know, in the spirit of Taylor, Frankie, Paul, I am happy to share in the attention of the success of. Of. Of my family. So no problem. We got the signage on the show.

[Max]

I think I was on maternity.

[Nick]

You know, we got.

[Peter]

Yeah, that's true.

[Natalie]

It was a little jump scare anyways.

[Nick]

It was a great season. I'm sure we'll continue to talk about it as these women continue to perform on social media. Hopefully, hopefully there is More to come. I think there will be excited to see it. I hope you guys all join us in the ride. The summer house finale was, you know, again great season. Once again, shout out to Lexi who carried this season. She was fantastic. One of the better rookie seasons for a Bravo star. I, you know, she stood on business and she had to do it all on her own. You know, you know how intimidating it is to enter that house. A veteran cast of friends who like, let's just be honest, we're a little mean girl to her. I think this was a terrible season for Sierra Jesse. I mean, I don't know. Jesse's just kind of proven himself to be an unserious man giving boy who you know, just like lives off these semantics of like, you know, well, I don't like you talking about my character when it's just like, well like then stop doing what you're doing on a reality. Flirting with a. Yeah, we're on a reality show. It's like, okay, if you're following Bravo, you, you, I'm sure you've seen the news that's been reported everywhere that Jesse Solom and Erica Jane hooked up following the tape. Allegedly.

[Peter]

Alleged.

[Nick]

Watch what happens live.

[Max]

Says a source at this point, it's.

[Nick]

Giving Jesse Solomon has been reaching out to the press and telling everyone that he hooked up with Erica Jane. I mean it's, it's being reported by People, Page Six, everyone. It's like, you know, like these outlets don't go that far unless they have someone.

[Max]

Like, unless the source.

[Nick]

And when, when a People magazines or a page six like give a source, it's, it's the person. It's 90 times, it's nine times out of 10. The actual person or their friend or a publicist or whatever. Almost always. And I can't help but think what Lexi told us when we interviewed her that how basically like her talking about how Jesse just wants to like how he was so jealous of the attention that Wes got from being the villain and it's just like, you know that he wants this.

[Peter]

I also think it's very interesting of Erica having so much to say about Garcelle not talking about her private life. Dating to see if Erica brings this up next season on Beverly Hills.

[Nick]

Oh, she definitely will.

[Peter]

You think she will. You think they're both using, you think they're probably both using it for a storyline.

[Max]

It's giving Luann and Joe Bradley.

[Peter]

Yeah. Probably wanting to be Luan and Joe.

[Nick]

Good looking people. First of all, they get, they both get, they both get Laid.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Nick]

It helps both their careers. She looks good. Good. She's, you know, hooking up with a, a younger, good looking guy and then, you know, I mean it probably helps him the least other than like he just gets attention from it, but that he seems to be most interested in just getting attention.

[Max]

I don't know. Erica's hot.

[Natalie]

And so someone refer to Danielle as the girl who graduates high school, comes back for all the parties.

[Max]

Yeah, I haven't seen that, but that's really funny.

[Nick]

Am I the only one who thinks this is a terrible season for Sierra?

[Peter]

I don't think it was a terrible season.

[Nick]

First, what'd you think of Sierra this season?

[Peter]

I think that Sierra's at her best when she's girling out and she, when she gets swept up in drama of these guys. It's just like we all know Sierra is better than this. But then in the way that you know so many.

[Nick]

Dewey.

[Max]

Well, what about in the finale when Jesse was flirting with all those women in the kitchen and then she was, was like, I just don't want Lexi to see this.

[Natalie]

She went in there and swept him out and.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, listen, again, maybe this is edited. Who knows? But the character we're seeing is giving pick me.

[Max]

I don't know. I like, I like, I think that, I think that she could have been.

[Natalie]

I like her too.

[Max]

I think that there could have been more like girls, girl energy between her and Lexi. But I also think that, and Lexi acknowledges the fact that like she was pretty swept up with Jesse and wasn't making an effort with the girls the way that she would have.

[Natalie]

Which honestly, like thinking about it would, would also rub me the wrong way of like this new girl comes into her house and then like gets involved with one of the guys.

[Nick]

So we hate her.

[Max]

No, not hate her. But it's like, it's like it could look to them too. Like Lexi came in and wanted a storyline and so she clung to Jesse and it's like, who.

[Natalie]

Like she didn't want to open herself.

[Nick]

To get to know us and why not support her? And you're friends with him. You're all friends with him. This new girl comes onto the show, dates your friend. Like, why?

[Max]

Relationship was kind of what is she doing wrong?

[Peter]

I also think the context of Weston, Sierra last season, she's coming off of that. And then to see like this. And this is no drag towards Lexi whatsoever because I thought Lexi was great. Like, I think all the girls are great on the show. But to have like that happen with Wet's last season. And. And then Lexi comes in and does kind of a similar thing with Jesse this season. And she's kind of just watching it. She's maybe not going to feel like, as sympathetic maybe for Lexi also, because it's Jesse and they have that relationship. Like, she's probably having complicated feelings of like, here we go again.

[Nick]

But that's what I'm saying. That's not a. Isn't that. How's that a girl's girl then?

[Max]

Well, she's also not talking Alex, and she's only hearing from Jesse that Lexi is, like, really jealous and doesn't like that she's hanging out with Jesse so much. And so to her, it's like she's only getting his side, which is, you know, which.

[Natalie]

She did come in as, like, Amanda's friend and it's.

[Nick]

Yeah, Lexi did.

[Natalie]

Yeah, I know. And it felt like we never once really saw Lexi and Amanda in the same room together.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Max]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I just think for. For a group of people who, like, call themselves girls girls, I just think their. Their treatment of Lexi was anything but.

[Max]

No, I. I agree with you that they could have been better friends to Lexi 100%. I also, though, see their side where it's like this girl in. And in Lexi's defense, she came in with two other newbies that were basically cut out of the entire season. So she was really on an island alone.

[Nick]

She's not. She's very sweet.

[Max]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And she's considerate. She enforces a. I mean, I think I'm. I just so impressed with Lexi because, like, she. She really. She means what she says. She follows through, like, Jesse, Sierra, I don't know. They care about the wrong things.

[Peter]

I don't know. I think Sierra might have been. Just been a little, like, over all of it this season. I think that's kind of what I was seeing versus her, like, not being a girl score or not doing whatever of just being like, I. I'm not dealing with this shit. And then also you have, like, Paige.

[Natalie]

That's kind of how I felt too.

[Peter]

Yeah. You also, like the context of, like, Paige, her best friend going through it and, like, being on the verge of, like, a panic attack about breaking up with Craig and the. The tour and stuff. This season, too, I think, is a different. Like, their dynamic was different too, because Paige was different.

[Max]

Yeah.

[Peter]

So it's just I. I feel like a lot of Sierra's stuff is just, like, how everyone around her was acting and she was kind of like, that's.

[Max]

Kind of how I felt. About the whole season where it was like everybody feels like they've. They're kind of. They. They didn't have any drama going on. Right. Like Carl and Lindsay, like, Lindsay just kept kind of poking at Carl, but he was just like, I'm not doing this. Like, I'm focusing on soft bar. And then, then Kyle and Amanda started to kind of have something but then that didn't go anywhere. It does seem like from the reunion trailer that that might continue and get juicier but like Paige and Craig doesn't happen until very like cameras pick back up. So really the Jesse, Sierra, Lexi storyline was the only drama that we had in this entire season.

[Nick]

Yeah. So maybe it's just like a product of the edit or like just lack of storylines, but the care. I'm just saying the character we saw, I just like, I just. I don't know.

[Peter]

I think also Sierra kind of. Kind of like got the short end of the stick this season compared to west and like the way that west was able to stay out of the drama all season after that past season. And then Sierra like got brought back into it because of Jesse.

[Nick]

How is it all on Jesse? I mean, Jesse is. Deserves all the criticism he gets. I'm. I'm definitely over the C pass. And he has proven to be like just a guy who's like, yeah, he just wants the attention and I think he's. He's giving like his. Jesse's potential is going to be messy brother. Bravo Star where I think Jesse wants to be like famous outside of Bravo. I don't right now. His actions say otherwise. You know, listen, I've, I've. His. I've been a pick me before. Like, I've behaved in that way in my younger years and maybe Jesse will grow up but like, you know, right now I think he deserves it all, but I just don't think it's all on Jesse. Like, I don't think you can blame all of her behavior on Jesse.

[Max]

I think that all three of them have part have things that they could have done better. I think that Lexus, Lexi could have opened herself up more and hung out with the girls more and talked to them more because all Sierra's hearing the whole season is Jesse side and not Lexi's side. And I think that, that Jesse did keep Lexi away from the other girls, but I think Lexi also kept Lexi away from the other girls. I think Sierra could have been less flirty with Jesse and a little more of a girls girl. Alexi. And I think Jesse overall just could have Been better.

[Peter]

I agree with you.

[Nick]

So the biggest criticism we have for Lexi is that a girl who came in as the new newbie without knowing anyone else fell for a guy and just got like, a little, like, caught up in love.

[Peter]

Yeah. I mean, I don't think, honestly.

[Nick]

And then everyone else kind of.

[Peter]

I don't think Jesse or. I just, like, don't, I don't, like, really personally think that it was a Sierra or. Yeah. Sierra versus Lexi thing. Like, I think in the way that, like, in the girls girl nature of it, like, I don't want to pit the two of them against each other. Like, I think that they both maybe could have done things differently, but I, like, don't think they're. I don't think Sierra really had it out for Lexi in any sort of way.

[Nick]

I definitely don't think she had it out for her. I just don't think she went out of her way to be a girls girl towards her. You know what I'm saying? And I just like, if you're gonna call yourself a girl's girl, I mean, I don't know, it just feels like maybe you should. Yeah. I don't think she showed up and was like, I'm gonna go after Lexi. I just think she didn't give a. About. About Lexi.

[Max]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Nick]

And she was just like, I don't give, I don't care about you.

[Peter]

That's fair.

[Max]

Can we talk about.

[Nick]

I will. I do, I do believe. I, I, I believe the ring. I believe Kyle. I think Craig's lying about the ring.

[Max]

Craig is absolutely lying about the ring. Then even on Watch what happens live, didn't Andy say that, like, Craig said that he had just returned it? It's like, oh, so convenient that, like, you just returned it so you can't show me the ring.

[Peter]

Also, did anyone notice that they cut. Cut the page saying that Craig was texting other girls?

[Max]

Yeah. Did you guys see this? So do you remember what, do you remember that in, like, I think it.

[Natalie]

Was the mid season teaser.

[Max]

In the mid season trailer, we were gonna see Paige talking about how Craig, like, was talking to other women. Texting other women. That wasn't shown.

[Natalie]

Yeah. So it was like he wants to call me a cheater. Well, he was the one texting other women.

[Nick]

I think that's giving. She said something in the heat of the moment that she knew was, like, not true. It was giving, like a Craig lie. You know, like there was like a probably a sprinkle of truth. Right. Like he probably was texting Another woman. And she probably knew it wasn't a threat at all, but she was super pissed and she said it, and cooler heads prevailed. And she probably was like, you take that shit out.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Hoping. And probably at this point, because did you guys all feel when they, like, got to the breakup, we're like, this topic again. I thought we had moved on, you know, it was like, holy shit. You know, it was just like, we had to talk about it on Southern Charm. Talk about. About it on Beginning of Summer House. And, like, it got brought up again. It was just, like, played out.

[Peter]

I was way more invested in them taking a shot of Lindsay's breast milk. Like, that's what I was. I was there for, like, the three of them, like, talking and then, like, having this new moment for Lindsay. That's what I was most excited about.

[Nick]

I almost. I almost vomited.

[Max]

No, you didn't.

[Peter]

I thought it was a cute moment between friends.

[Nick]

I just. I'm not into, like, drinking other people's bodily.

[Peter]

But you'll drink a strange cow's bodily fluid. A cow that you've never even meant that.

[Nick]

You know, I'm not a fan of. I don't really subscribe to milk, period. You know, fair enough. Unless I'm eating Cocoa Pebbles, which I haven't.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Nick]

In a while. So.

[Peter]

Okay.

[Nick]

Period. All right, you can back it up, Atlanta. Listen, we had four episodes of Mormon Wives to cover. We will pick back up Atlanta. Phaedra is back, excited. She seems like she's ready to really get messy when they go to Grenada. They're going into Grenada.

[Peter]

Yeah.

[Nick]

All right, well, that will do it for this episode. Be sure to tune in tomorrow for a very interesting, interesting episode of Going Deeper. We have Jen and Zach Affleck. We cover the whole spectrum of their relationship from are they related to Ben Affleck? To their marriage, their mental health. Is Zach's transformation real? You'll get to decide. And then we have a great episode for you on Thursday. So tune in. We love you. I hope you all enjoyed your memorial weekend. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye. The Val house is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing a budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Prices and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.

[Leia]

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