E945 – Going Deeper with Dakota Mortensen

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Viall Files - Episode E945: Going Deeper with Dakota Mortensen

Release Date: June 4, 2025

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Introduction

In episode E945 of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall sits down with Dakota Mortensen to delve into the depths of Dakota's personal journey through addiction, recovery, and complex relationships. Alongside Nick, Natalie Joy and Zoe Saldana engage in a candid and heartfelt conversation, offering listeners profound insights into Dakota's life struggles and triumphs.

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Dakota's Struggle with Addiction

Dakota opens up about his early encounters with substance abuse, tracing the origins back to his high school years. As a dedicated basketball player from Idaho, Dakota's initial misuse of pain pills stemmed from a simple desire to alleviate knee pain during practices.

Dakota (06:27): "I had zero pain. And, like, it was the best thing in the world. I was like, so right when practice ended, I texted him and I was like, 'Hey, whatever those were, get me as many of those things as you can.'"

His casual experimentation quickly spiraled into a dependency on opioids, leading him down a perilous path involving heroin and fentanyl. Dakota recounts the evolving nature of his addiction, highlighting how accessibility and peer influence exacerbated his substance use.

Dakota (10:00): "It's telling you, like, hey, you need these. Or you start to justify everything, being like, it's not that bad. You're fine."

The narrative underscores the relentless grip of addiction, portraying it as an all-consuming force that dominated Dakota's life aspirations and relationships.

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The Impact on Relationships

Dakota's addiction took a significant toll on his personal relationships, particularly with his high school sweetheart, whom he eventually married. Despite his intentions to quit drugs upon marriage, the weight of his addiction proved insurmountable.

Dakota (21:25): "I don't understand what's happening to me. It's like your brain chemistry changes...I couldn't see how bad I was."

His marriage was fraught with struggles, culminating in a traumatic incident where Dakota attempted to conceal his drug use on his wedding day. This event marked a pivotal moment, leading to his realization of the dire consequences of his actions.

Dakota (23:06): "It took using fentanyl on my wedding day to get me to stop."

Ultimately, the breakdown of his marriage and ongoing struggles with addiction highlighted the profound personal and familial ramifications of substance abuse.

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Journey to Recovery

Dakota's path to sobriety is a testament to his resilience and determination. After multiple relapses and near-death experiences, he sought help through rehabilitation. His spiritual awakening, catalyzed by a sincere prayer, played a crucial role in his decision to seek support.

Dakota (37:35): "I said a prayer and I was like, 'Hey, if there's anything you can do right now, just please, I need help so bad...'"

Emphasizing self-accountability, Dakota shares his strategies for maintaining sobriety, including intense physical regimens like the "75 Hard" program, which provided structure and purpose during his recovery.

Dakota (49:41): "Just gave me some form of, like, a push."

Despite a relapse triggered by the introduction of fentanyl, Dakota managed to regain control through sheer willpower and continued support from his family and friends.

Dakota (44:32): "I eventually got to a point where I was like, okay, I'm gonna have to do something here to get clean."

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Co-Parenting and Personal Growth

With the birth of his son, Dakota's perspective on life and relationships underwent a profound transformation. Becoming a father instilled in him a heightened sense of responsibility and a deeper understanding of the impact his actions have on others.

Dakota (28:19): "And you can't imagine, like, losing him."

Navigating the challenges of co-parenting, Dakota emphasizes the importance of setting healthy boundaries and fostering a supportive environment for his child. He reflects on the necessity of personal growth and the continual effort required to maintain his sobriety and positive relationships.

Dakota (30:13): "The more you bundle, the more you save."

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Reflections on Toxic Relationships

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around Dakota's tumultuous relationship with Taylor, a fellow reality TV personality. Their relationship, marked by mutual struggles and repeated conflicts, serves as a focal point for discussions on accountability, trust, and personal responsibility.

Dakota (74:22): "What do you think it's gonna take for you and Taylor to be in, like, a healthy relationship that you would want your son to one day be in?"

The dialogue explores the complexities of co-dependency, the challenges of maintaining sobriety amidst relationship turmoil, and the imperative of prioritizing personal well-being over unhealthy attachments.

Dakota (77:35): "I owe you this. Of just knowing the truth and to at least just give you that as."

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Insights and Advice

Throughout the episode, Dakota imparts valuable lessons learned from his experiences. He highlights the critical role of honesty, self-awareness, and the courage to make difficult decisions for the sake of personal and familial well-being.

Dakota (30:40): "I just need something to give...I just need to do something."

The conversation also touches on the importance of parental vigilance in preventing addiction, advocating for open communication and the safeguarding of prescription medications to protect children from potential substance abuse.

Dakota (30:40): "The biggest part would be to really allow your kid to feel like they have the trust to come to you and talk to you about anything with absolutely no judgment."

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Conclusion

Episode E945 of The Viall Files offers a profound exploration of Dakota Mortensen's life, charting his descent into addiction and his inspiring journey toward recovery. Through candid discussions and heartfelt reflections, Dakota shares his vulnerabilities, mistakes, and the lessons he has garnered along the way. Listeners gain a deeper understanding of the pervasive impact of addiction on personal relationships and the enduring strength required to overcome such challenges.

Dakota's story serves as both a cautionary tale and a beacon of hope, emphasizing that even amidst profound struggles, change and redemption are attainable.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dakota (06:27): "I had zero pain. And, like, it was the best thing in the world."
• Dakota (10:00): "It's telling you, like, hey, you need these."
• Dakota (21:25): "I don't understand what's happening to me."
• Dakota (37:35): "I said a prayer and I was like, 'Hey, if there's anything you can do right now, just please, I need help so bad...'"
• Dakota (44:32): "I eventually got to a point where I was like, okay, I'm gonna have to do something here to get clean."
• Dakota (28:19): "And you can't imagine, like, losing him."
• Dakota (30:13): "The more you bundle, the more you save."
• Dakota (74:22): "What do you think it's gonna take for you and Taylor to be in, like, a healthy relationship that you would want your son to one day be in?"
• Dakota (77:35): "I owe you this. Of just knowing the truth and to at least just give you that as."
• Dakota (30:40): "I just need something to give...I just need to do something."
• Dakota (30:40): "The biggest part would be to really allow your kid to feel like they have the trust to come to you and talk to you about anything with absolutely no judgment."

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This summary captures the essence of Episode E945, providing a comprehensive overview of Dakota Mortensen's personal journey as discussed in The Viall Files. It highlights key moments, personal reflections, and the overarching themes of addiction, recovery, and relationship dynamics.

Transcript

[Dakota]

Hi, Zoe Saldana. Welcome to T Mobile. Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us.

[Zoe Saldana]

Thanks.

[Dakota]

And here's my old phone to trade in. You don't need to trade in. When you switch to T mobile, we'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro. Plus we'll help you pay off your old phone. Up to 800 bucks and you still.

[Host]

Get to keep it.

[Dakota]

There's always a trade in. Not right now. At T Mobile.

[Host]

I feel like I have to give.

[Dakota]

You something in return for karma. That's okay.

[Host]

I don't really have much in my purse.

[Dakota]

Oh, let's see.

[Host]

Hand sanitizer.

[Dakota]

It's lavender. I'm good.

[Host]

Seriously.

[Zoe Saldana]

Let me check this pocket.

[Dakota]

Oh, mints.

[Host]

Really, I'm fine. Oh, I have raisins.

[Dakota]

I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec.

[Host]

I've got cupcakes in the car. It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile. Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple intelligence on us, no trade in needed. We'll even pay off your Phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits.

[Dakota]

New line, $100 plus a month on.

[Host]

Experience beyond finance agreement.

[Dakota]

$999.99 and qualifying.

[Host]

Ported for well qualified. Plus tax and $10 connection charge.

[Dakota]

Pay off via virtual prepaid card.

[Host]

Allow 15 days credits end in balance due if you pay off early or cancel.

[Zoe Saldana]

For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal.

[Host]

They include a lot more people than ourselves, Loved ones, neighbors, the communities we.

[Zoe Saldana]

Call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts.

[Host]

At Thrivent, we help plan your financial.

[Zoe Saldana]

Picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping.

[Host]

Guide your finances, our ambition is to.

[Zoe Saldana]

Make it mean so much more. Thrivent, where money means more.

[Host]

Connect with [e-mail].

[Dakota]

You'Re crazy.

[Host]

Dakota. Welcome to the Vial files.

[Dakota]

Yeah, thank you.

[Host]

How are you?

[Dakota]

I'm doing pretty good, dude.

[Host]

Okay.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

We're very excited to have you.

[Dakota]

Yeah, I'm excited to be here.

[Host]

Are you nervous?

[Dakota]

Yeah. Yeah, I always get, like, nervous, and then I feel like once maybe I, like, start going a little bit.

[Host]

Do you need a sip of water?

[Dakota]

I always do.

[Host]

Always do.

[Dakota]

I'm gonna take a sip of water.

[Host]

I got that nervous cottonmouth. I can hear it. I can hear it in your voice, dude.

[Dakota]

Yeah, it's so weird. It's like the one thing that's how I know when I'm nervous.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

Did you grow up in Utah?

[Dakota]

No, I grew up in Idaho.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, Utah.

[Dakota]

Yeah. There you go. Yeah. And I actually. I Grew up on a farm, too, so I lived, like, a. Just kind of like a country life. It was. It was awesome.

[Zoe Saldana]

So what brought you to Utah?

[Dakota]

I actually. When I got sober, the last time I got sober, I think it was just hard for me to be in Idaho just during that time, because, like, everywhere I went, it felt like it was just trigger after trigger. Like, it was like, oh, this gas station. Oh, this place. Like, everywhere I went. And so I kind of just got to this point where I was like, I want to just leave and then just kind of have a fresh start.

[Zoe Saldana]

There's just too much history.

[Dakota]

Yeah, there was just too much history. And I love Idaho. Like, I love it there. But, yeah, it was just something. I think during that time, it was, like, the best thing I could do.

[Host]

Well, I'm. As we said, we're very excited to have you. Grateful to have you here. I was a little surprised when. And maybe I'm assuming you know this, but I don't know if it was you or your team was more like, hey, Dakota wants the. Come on.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

And talk.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Which I'm very grateful that, you know, we get a lot of people saying, hey, they want to share their story. Sometimes it's also us, you know, especially when it comes to people with the more maybe dramatic lives.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Sometimes there's a little reluctance to come on. So I. You know that. So that part is true. You wanted. You wanted to come here.

[Dakota]

Yeah. Well, I think especially given, like, I'm. I'm the type of person where I feel like I want, like, given the situation, even with the show, like, it's really hard sometimes because, like, at the end of the day, I don't have really control of a lot of stuff. You know, that's like, whatever it is about me. And so a big part of it was just, like, I just wish I could kind of sometimes talk and, like, show also who I am in ways, because I just don't feel like I really get that.

[Host]

Okay.

[Dakota]

Yeah. So that's kind of how I feel about it.

[Host]

Okay. Well, we're excited to have you and to give you that opportunity.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

I wanted to go back like we were talking about before and just kind of get to know a little bit about your backstory, which I don't think we know a ton about. You've been open about your addictions, but are people fully aware of just how heavy that period was and just the details of your substance abuse problem?

[Dakota]

No. And I think that's another thing, too, that. That's a. That's A huge part for me as well is, like, I've always kind of wanted to have a voice just for even things like that. Like, things I'm, like, really passionate about or care about. And for me now that is, like, a huge one for me, because addiction is. It's so huge. Like, especially right now, like, almost every single person probably can relate. Like, you have loved ones, family members that have gone through that. And so for me, it's like I enjoy talking about it. And I get to sometimes, like, through social media and different things like that. And usually when I do it, like, the, you know, the reciprocation I get back from it is absolutely wild. Like, you know, I'll be getting comments all the time that are like, just lost my brother, just lost my dad today. Like, it. It just goes on and on and on. And so now, like, obviously, like, people know that I have, like, a past with it, but I just don't think people understand, like, the full extent of how bad I actually was.

[Host]

Yeah. So I guess if you're comfortable.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Talking about it, like, at its worst. What substances were you abusing?

[Dakota]

Yeah, so for me, it started out when I was in high school. I was a big basketball player. Like, I was like a huge sports, like a jock. And I had bad knees. And I remember I was at a practice once and my knees were hurting super bad. And I was in the gym and a kid was in there, like, for, I don't know, like, doing, like, working out or something. He was just like one of my friends kind of. And he, like, I was telling. I was complaining about my knees. I was like, my knees hurt so bad. And then he was like, oh, dude, I have some pain pills. You want some? I had no idea. Like, I. I didn't even know what pain pills were. I was like, yeah, give me some.

[Zoe Saldana]

An Advil. Sure.

[Dakota]

Yeah. Like, I just. I didn't really understand it. And so I took them and then I went and practiced. And I remember I had zero pain. And, like, it was the best thing in the world. I was like. So right when practice ended, I text him and I was like, hey, whatever those were, get me as many of those things as you can. And. And he wasn't even, like, a drug addict. He wasn't a drug addict or anything. Like, he wasn't like, selling drugs. Like, I think he just, like, had some and he was just like, maybe taking him, like, maybe experimenting himself. And so from there, I like, met up with him and we. He said, he's like, I know somebody that had surgery and he has tons of pain pills, like, and we could go get some. So I like, went to this house and. How old are you? I was 17 or 17, I think.

[Zoe Saldana]

Were you close with your family?

[Dakota]

Yes.

[Zoe Saldana]

You were?

[Dakota]

Yes, very close.

[Zoe Saldana]

Did it ever cross your mind to be like, hey, mom, like, how cool I found this thing that, like, my knee stopped hurting?

[Dakota]

Yeah. Well, I think what happened was he eventually kind of told me, like, you know, a little bit more detail about him. Like, it is kind of like a drug. Like, you know, but like, I think just because it was a pill and it was like, I. I don't know, I didn't see, I think the. The bad side of that in that way.

[Zoe Saldana]

Or it's kind of like if a doctor would prescribe to someone, like, can't be that harmful.

[Dakota]

Yeah. I just.

[Host]

Either way, 17 year old you.

[Zoe Saldana]

It's crazy. Yeah.

[Host]

Didn't.

[Dakota]

Yeah, yeah. I just. I had no idea. And so we're there. I'm pouring like handfuls of these pills, dude. Putting them in my pocket. And then that same kid was like, I also hear that if you snort them, they work better. And so the second time ever. And it was more of a joke. Like, it was like, funny. Like, we were like, laughing about, he's never done it. And so he's like, let's try it. And so we tried it. And I remember when I was driving home, that was like the first time I felt like a high. Like, and I remember when I was driving home and I was like, this is the best feeling in the world. Like, I was like, this feels so good. Like, I just felt like anything inside of me was just, like, gone. Like, I felt very, like, just. I was like, I don't really care about anything right now. And from there it just. It just progressed really fast. Like, I, you know, I eventually just got to where I started getting those as much as I could. And like, my personality at the time, like, I was. I was friends with everybody. So it was like, I was friends with the skater kids, I was friends with the drug addict kids. I was like. So then that branched out, you know, because then some of the drug addict friends, mine, I was like, hey, can you give me some of this stuff? And they're like, yeah, we can. And then, like. And then it bumped to oxy. And then from oxy, you know, you can go up in the milligrams of those. And then, like, before I knew it, and I had no idea they. I remember I was in class and over the intercom it's when, like, the pill epidemic was, like, getting really bad. They announced it over the intercom, and they were saying, like, hey, you know, just, like, talking about, like, how addictive it is and how. How bad they are. And I remember I was, like, sitting there, I was like, whoa, I'm kind of scared right now. And so I remember right after that, I was like, I'm not going to do it anymore. And I tried to stop, and I was like, I couldn't. Like, already I was like, I couldn't stop.

[Zoe Saldana]

Like, what was the feeling you had when you. How long did you stop for a day?

[Dakota]

Not long. Yeah, it was like. It was like, maybe like a day or two.

[Zoe Saldana]

So what was the feeling that made you want to do it again?

[Dakota]

Well, that's the thing is. It's the. That was the addiction part of it. And if you don't understand addiction, like. Like, and especially for me being so young, like, I didn't know, like, all of those symptoms of, like, you're going to. You know, your body's going to crave it. You're like. Your mind starts to change. Like, it's. It's telling you, like, hey, you need these. Or you start to justify it to. You really start to justify everything, of being like, it's not that bad. Like, you're good. Like, you can. You can keep doing it. You're fine.

[Host]

I can always stop.

[Dakota]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, that's kind of what it felt like. I was like, I'm fine. It's not, like, doing anything to me. And then. Yeah, and then I just started doing, like, you know, different things like that. And then I started. I had a buddy that eventually told me you could smoke them off of tinfoil, and that changed everything.

[Zoe Saldana]

Who gave you this tutorial? How did you learn to do this?

[Dakota]

Another drug addict.

[Zoe Saldana]

Wow. And he. Was he the same age as you?

[Dakota]

He was actually. He was a year younger than me. And you want to know the crazy part? His mom walked in on us doing that. And his mom was okay with it. What? Yeah. Like, she never said anything. And I still, to this day, when I think back sometimes on that story, I'm like, that's. That was crazy. Like that. They just kind of were, like, okay with that. And the cool thing is that kid, he's sober now. His mom's sober now. I think his whole family is sober, which is. It's like a miracle. It's really cool because he. He. He was really bad, too, and he went down a really dark path as well. Yeah. Once I started Smoking them. And then the. The cost for these pills, it got so crazy. You were spending. They were selling, you know, because eventually.

[Host]

Yeah, people stopped giving him.

[Dakota]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It got to a point where they were selling them for $50 a pill. And so it's a lot of money. And. And, you know, during this whole time.

[Host]

Like, what are you. How are you making money at this point?

[Dakota]

Working? I've. I always worked. Like, I was always working. I was construction, what you name it. Like, I was always. And it was always manual labor. Like, just growing up in Idaho, like, I was always doing.

[Host]

At this point. You're high working manual labor?

[Dakota]

Yeah, so I was high all.

[Host]

Did anyone, like, what. Did your parents start noticing a changing your behavior or employer started noticing a change in your behavior?

[Dakota]

Yeah. The funny part is, the first time I smoked weed ever in my life, I got caught by my parents because I was so high, and I had no idea what it was like. And these stoner kids I was with just kept telling me, they're like, it's your first time. You're not gonna get high. So I'm just, like, taking these bong.

[Host]

Rips just before your pill.

[Dakota]

I think it was right in the beginning phases of it, so. And then I was like, I'm going to try weed. And I was so high, and they're like, oh, dude, you'll be fine. Even you got, like, three hours. You won't be high or, you know, or something like that. Two hours till you're back home. I came back home, and, you know, I couldn't even. I couldn't talk. My dad saw me, and it was like an instant, like, what is wrong with you? And I remember he was yelling at me, and I was laughing because I was so high. Like, I just thought it was funny. And so. So it was like a. It was crazy because when I look back at everything, it really was a blessing with my family because they caught me with pills really early on as well, and so they knew almost from the start of when I started everything that, like, I was, like, kind of, like starting to dabble with some of these things. And then from there went to heroin, because then oxys were so expensive. Heroin was a little cheaper. Similar highs. So you just transfer. And a lot of people do this.

[Host]

And at that point, like, what is. If you remember? Like, what is your brain telling you? Because, like, for me, like, I'm the kid Dare worked, right? You know, I was like, yeah, I don't want to turn green, man. Like, I'm. I'm. I Didn't do drugs in high school, so, like, obviously, you had a different mentality. Yeah. You know, to me, growing up, it's just like, you know, yeah, maybe kids smoke weed. Maybe kids drink. Whatever. Even the crazy kids might have tried cocaine. But then it's like, heroin is like the. Don't. That's. That'll kill you.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Did it even, like, register what you were doing?

[Dakota]

You know, it. It registered a little bit, because when I first. I believe the first time that I got it, and when you start going into, like, that world of, like, the heroin meth side, you start to, like, truly walk into houses that are just weird.

[Host]

Breaking Bad.

[Dakota]

Yes. Like, it's. It's really, really sad. Like, I remember being in a lot of houses where I. My heart would, like, break for just what was going on, which is so weird because, like, I'm sitting here using these drugs, but I'm also looking at the situation and being like, this is crazy. I should not be in this house.

[Host]

But didn't dawn on you that, like, that was your next destination?

[Dakota]

No. And. And what's crazy is. Yeah, the first time that I got heroin, I remember the people that I got from. They were shooting up heroin. And watching that was so scary to me because, like, you know, it's an instant thing. Like, it's like they'll just go like this, and it's. They're. They're just gone. And that really scared me. And so I. I remember when I saw that, I told myself, if I ever shoot up, I'm gone. Like, I just knew that was the thing. And. And I. I've heard, like, when you go to needles to quit is. It's 10 times harder. And so I kind of always made that promise to myself to where I was like, I'm never gonna shoot up. And so I was just still.

[Host]

So you started smoking?

[Dakota]

Yeah, so I was just smoking it.

[Zoe Saldana]

Do you feel like that was probably the most memorable moment you have of, like, being scared while in your addiction?

[Dakota]

You know, there was. There was a lot of moments, because I think with addiction, especially when you're trying to quit, I mean, you're hitting rock bottom a lot. Like, there's. There's so many times. I can't tell you how many times where I would be, like, oh, yeah, I'm done. Like, I'm not going to do this anymore. Like, I'd almost overdose. Right? Like, and I got rushed to the hospital one time, like, and I. You know, I just think I kept having these moments, and that's where, like, the power of addiction and how hard it is to quit. It's so wild. I mean, it is your whole life. When you wake up in the morning, it's the first thought in your head. When you go to bed at night, it's the first thought in your head. So your whole life becomes just chasing this high. That's all you're doing every day, 24 7. And you will do anything to get high.

[Zoe Saldana]

What was the craziest thing you did?

[Dakota]

The craziest thing? I mean. I mean, I did. You know, I mean, I'm like, judgment free zone. Yeah. Thank you, guys. I appreciate that. I mean, like, I. I stole a lot.

[Zoe Saldana]

Like, your mom's thing.

[Dakota]

Yeah, I stole a lot of stuff from my parents and, like, would pawn stuff off. I remember we would do this thing. One of my buddies learned that, like. Like a big thing was tools, like, power tools. If you like a lot of people, you could get a lot of money for them. So I had a buddy that learned a trick where you could go into these stores. We do it at Walmart, even, Sorry, Walmart, sorry, Home Depot. And I think they changed it now because of it. But you would go in, you would grab a tool or something, and then you would walk straight to the return place, and some of the places would return it without a receipt, and then they would give you money for it. So, like, I would. I would go with a buddy. We would walk in a Walmart. He would go and grab all of these, like, oh, I can't even remember what they were at the time. Like, and we would just walk straight to the. To the return thing, and they would exchange that for cash.

[Zoe Saldana]

And you would take that cash and go straight.

[Dakota]

And then go straight to there. Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

Wow.

[Dakota]

And so what's the most dangerous thing.

[Host]

You'Ve done to get money?

[Dakota]

I would say just, like, breaking into cars. I never broke into any houses. I had a few buddies that would do that. I was always, I'm from Idaho. Everybody's got guns. So, like, I was always, like. I was like, I'm not even gonna risk that. Like. But, yeah, I would say it was just more things like that. I. I always tried to not go to the next levels of what some people were doing.

[Host]

Like, you hear stories about, like, sex work and things like that.

[Dakota]

Oh, dude. Yeah. So sometimes this has happened. Nobody's gonna believe me when I tell this story. But, like, there would be, like, sometimes, like, girls would be, like, drug dealers and when you're really hurting. And, like, they would call it, like, sometimes, like, it's like, dry. They would say it's dry. And that would mean, like, nobody can get, like, it's. It's really hard to get. Like, there'd just be, like, a dry moment where all the pills were gone.

[Host]

Inventory is low.

[Dakota]

Yes, inventory is low. And so you'd be hitting up so many people to try to find things. And. And when you're withdrawing and you're, you know, you're just, like, dying. There was, like, some girls that were drug dealers, and they would, like, always offer me, like, if I slept with them, that they would, like, give me. Give free drugs. I said no. Okay. I never said yes to any of that. But, like, I think just.

[Host]

I'm assuming no judgment to whoever these drug dealers are. But I imagine these were people that weren't getting laid, and they saw a handsome young man. And I get what you're saying. No one's gonna believe this, because usually it's the right. The other way around, where, you know, men are the ones always, like, trying to get some sex.

[Dakota]

Yeah, exactly. And I think maybe that's what it was. But you know what? I. I can almost promise you a lot of those girls were getting sex from lots of other men that were willing to do that, because.

[Host]

Wow.

[Dakota]

Yeah. When you're. Again, when you're withdrawing, how did you turn a corner?

[Host]

Like, what. What was the moment where you started realizing there's a huge problem and you started getting the help that you needed?

[Dakota]

Yes. So I had a high school sweetheart, and I. Yeah, I, like, I love this girl. It was like, my first love, and I. I was actually at a point where I proposed to her, and I was going to get married. And everything you do is always, if I get married, I'll stop. If I do this, this is where I'll stop. And so I kind of put that in my head once I was engaged to her that I was like, I'm not gonna use. Once I. Once I get married. Like, I'm gonna.

[Zoe Saldana]

Did she know about your addiction?

[Dakota]

She knew about it, but she didn't understand it. Like, and nobody did. Nobody understood it. Like, my family didn't understand it. Nobody understands it when you say understand.

[Host]

Like, did they. They didn't know you were taking heroin? Did they?

[Dakota]

No, My. No. She. She had no idea that I was using heroin. Like, and she knew. She had no idea how bad I really was as well. And so it was just like. Yeah, it was one of those things where I thought, like, just by getting married that maybe that would stop. And I remember when I was Going to my wedding. It was gonna be my last hurrah before I stopped and before I left. We were like, we should use one more time.

[Host]

Who's we?

[Dakota]

Like, some of my buddies. Like, and so I am in my. Like, you know, I'm your suit. Yeah. Like, I'm getting ready to go do this, but, yeah.

[Host]

Wedding day.

[Dakota]

Yeah, it's a wedding day, and I am trying to get drugs. And I remember I was supposed to be there at a certain time, and I was, like, late. Like, I wasn't late late to the wedding or anything, but, like, meaning, like, I was late to where I should have been there a lot earlier and doing these things because drug dealers don't care. They're. They're just like, what? Like. So I remember I showed up and. Yeah, so I. I use there. And that was actually fentanyl that I used there. And, you know, that was kind of the. That was my thing. I was like, yeah, this is. I'm done. Not gonna use anymore. Blah, blah.

[Zoe Saldana]

It took using fentanyl on your wedding day to get you to stop.

[Dakota]

Nope, nope, nope. Didn't stop there, guys. Wasn't that because I'm not married now, so.

[Zoe Saldana]

Absolutely.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Did you ever get.

[Zoe Saldana]

You ran it back.

[Host]

You got married.

[Dakota]

I got married. Okay. Yeah. So I ended up getting married. And she. She was, like, such a sweet girl. She was, like, the sweetest girl ever. Like, very. Just, like, innocent. Like, just.

[Zoe Saldana]

I would imagine she did not deserve that version of you.

[Dakota]

Oh, absolutely not. Like, and I think that's why it was so sad, was because it's like, during this time, I'm going through all of these, like, weird emotions and things, but again, I. I still don't understand what's happening to me. Like, I. It's like your brain. Your whole brain chemistry changes. Like, it rewires your brain and so everything. Like, I couldn't see actually how bad I was. And then we got married. And then this was a. This was the craziest part. We end up getting a house. Okay? When we move into the house, we're moving into it. I am driving to the house. There is a guy or a kid, I should say a kid that is right next door mowing his lawn. And that kid was my drug dealer. I had no idea. And so when I got out, he comes over to me, and he's like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm moving in here. And he's like, oh, dog. He's like, if you ever need anything at all, let me know. I got you. And I was like, this never ends. And so I remember she was actually going. She was working towards being a nurse. So she was. At the time, she was a cna, so she was working nights. And so, you know, that whole dynamic's really weird, right, because it's like she's sleeping during the day and then, like, you know, gone at night. And so I remember I held off for a while, and then. And not long, but I held off for a little while. And then I remember he hit me up one night, and I was like, okay. And then I went over, and then.

[Zoe Saldana]

How old was he?

[Dakota]

He was probably, like, two years older than me.

[Zoe Saldana]

Okay.

[Dakota]

Yeah. So I think we were, like, 20. He was like, 24. I was, like, maybe 22 or something like that. Yeah.

[Host]

And at this point, you're taking fentanyl, heroin, meth.

[Dakota]

Yeah, this was still more heroin here. Fentanyl came in a little bit later. I was doing fentanyl patches at the time because fentanyl wasn't, like. It didn't come in yet. Like, it is. And so that's when. Yeah, it was mostly just heroin. And then, like, the fentanyl patches are, like. We would get those from cancer patients, by the way. Like, we would find people that were dying from cancer, and they would sell all their drugs to people to make money. And. Yeah. Which is really sad. And so, yeah, I remember, like, just. And, like, that. That whole thing was, like, weird, too, because I. I didn't even know what fentanyl was at that time. But, like, it's like, it, like, knocks you out. Like, it's, like, so crazy. And it can last for a long time.

[Zoe Saldana]

So how long were you married?

[Dakota]

I was married for, like, a year and a half.

[Zoe Saldana]

And you were abusing drugs the entire marriage?

[Dakota]

Yeah, I was abusing drugs the whole marriage.

[Zoe Saldana]

Have you ever apologized to her?

[Dakota]

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I did. And it was. Yeah, it was really hard. That's. That's the part that. I think that was something that clicked into me later when I was, like, in my first rehab, is you don't understand the damage you cause other people. Like, even my family, for example. You just don't. You're not thinking that way. Like, you're so selfish and stuck in your ways of just. It's all about you. Because that's. That's, like, almost all you can think about is just, like, get high, get high, get high. So when I got sober, I remember there's this point where it, like, hit me, like, I had just this. It was like a moment of Clarity. And I just remember thinking about my family and, like, at the time, I had a little sister. There's a big age gap between us. I've always wanted a little sibling so bad my whole life because I was the youngest out of my family. Yeah. Just seeing how much pain I caused my whole family and just people, that's like. Yeah. That almost, like, hurt me way more because, like, for me, you don't care about yourself. Like, I didn't care if I died. I didn't care about anything. But when I got sober for a little bit, it was just kind of seeing how much damage you cause other people and how much they went through. And, like, thank you. Thank God. My family is like, they stuck by my side through everything, and they did not have to do that. Like, they could have given up on me a million times.

[Zoe Saldana]

Does it hit you a little harder now that you have your own son?

[Dakota]

Oh, yes.

[Zoe Saldana]

And you can't imagine, like, losing him.

[Dakota]

Yeah. That's where. That was a really big transformation for me because I have always wanted a family. My entire life. I actually. I wanted a girl first. That's what I wanted first. For some reason, I wanted a girl more than anything. Um, and I'm. I mean, I'm So it didn't matter, but I'm just saying, like, that I was like. Yeah, I was like, I want. I want a little girl really bad. But when I had him, that was like the cool. The gosh, damn, dude. I can't even talk about him half the time. Yeah, that just. I gotta stop being a bitch.

[Host]

No, you don't.

[Zoe Saldana]

He shows you're human.

[Dakota]

It was. Yeah, it was just cool to kind of have like, a full circle moment there. Like. Cause I never knew I would even be alive.

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Dakota]

And. Yeah. And then just the amount of love and that I would do, like, anything for him. And, you know, it even shifted my perspective, even to my family. Maybe that's how it was for you guys too, a little bit. But, like, you kind of even see the side of, like, you know, I don't know what your dynamics are like, with your. Your parents, but, like, you can kind of. You kind of understand, like, the caring part of that, of, like, how, you know, when you're growing up, like, if your parents are hard on you or, you know, they're, like, doing these things, or they're, like, showing you how much they care and you're just like a punk kid. You know, whatever. I know what I'm doing. It was, you know, that even changed. It was like a really cool experience for me to just kind of have that to be like, oh, I get it. Like, you guys were just doing your best too. You just loved me unconditionally, and you guys were just trying your best. And it's like. And I feel like no parent obviously does it perfect, but they definitely were just doing their best, you know, to.

[Zoe Saldana]

Like, do you have. And maybe this is something that, like, you'll use whenever gets a little bit older. But, like, advice. I think for any parent, one of their biggest fears is like, I hope my child doesn't grow up to become a drug addict. Like, how do I keep. There's like, the scare tactic. There's like, how do you think from your perspective, like, parents should go about keeping drugs out of their children's life?

[Dakota]

Yeah. Well, I think a big one is I would always be paying attention to their friends. I think friends are a really huge thing. It's kind of just like who you surround yourself with. You know, you're going to. Eventually I kind of start doing what they're doing. I think that's a big one to keep an eye open for. Obviously, like, if you have prescriptions drugs in your house, I mean, if you don't need them anymore, or if you do need them for certain things, like, make sure you lock them up, hide them. But I think the biggest part would be to really allow your kid to feel like they have the trust to come to you and talk to you about anything with absolutely no judgment and just knowing that they want what's best for you and that they're gonna help you.

[Zoe Saldana]

Totally.

[Dakota]

Because I think that was really hard for me. For some reason, I was. I was always so petrified to, like, talk to my parents about how awful I was, is what it felt like.

[Host]

I also imagine there's a level of. I think most parents. And I don't know how your parents felt, and maybe you had conversations with them since, but I imagine there's a lot of parents out there who feel like they're good parents and they have a good kid and they just, like, just would just never imagine their kid doing stuff like that. So you. They almost take for granted. Not. Not to assign any blame, but, like, just being diligent enough to know that, like, you. You always have to, like, assume these risks, you know, because once your kid, like, leaves the safety of your home, the world, you know, has access to them. The world doesn't have the same love and consideration for your kids out there. And. And bad things can happen fast. And to. To just be Mindful. Not just as, you know, I think as parents, we want to assume, like, yeah, my kids the best. Yeah, they would never. And I raised them well. And it's like, it might not have anything to do with it.

[Dakota]

Oh, yeah. I mean, like, if you were to look at my family, you'd be like, what happened to you? Like, like, not. But just meaning, like, yeah, like, yeah, you assume.

[Host]

I mean, if you just hear your story, people are naturally going to assume that you came from the wrong side of the tracks, so to speak.

[Dakota]

A hundred percent. And what's crazy even is, is when I was going in these, like, trap houses, these. These straight junkies would look at me and be like, what are you doing here? They would tell me that they're like, you don't belong here. I would have. I had multiple drug addicts, straight, just junkies that they got to a point where they cared about me enough to where they would stop selling me drugs. Because they would be like, this is not who you're destined to be. You're not. You're not this. And I always remember that because I thought that was so weird that people would even say that to me. Like, especially, like, just being like that because, you know, I always had to try to put on like, a, you know, almost an act of looking. Like I. You know, whether it was around, you know, my family or just people. Like, I came from a small town, so I always tried to fit apart to where it looked like I was okay. And in reality, I wasn't.

[Host]

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[Zoe Saldana]

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[Host]

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[Zoe Saldana]

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[Host]

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[Dakota]

Dash l l.

[Zoe Saldana]

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[Dakota]

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[Zoe Saldana]

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[Dakota]

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[Zoe Saldana]

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[Dakota]

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[Zoe Saldana]

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[Dakota]

Find Apothecary in Sprouts farmers market stores.

[Zoe Saldana]

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[Host]

How did you get clean?

[Dakota]

I got clean when I was married. And I remember I had this really cool experience. It was just like a really. I don't know, it was very. For me, it was a very godly, like just spiritual experience for me. But I remember I was. I was hurting so bad because I was still using and I just felt like such a crappy person. Like I just hated myself so much. And I remember I. I said a prayer and I was like, hey. And at this time I kind of like, I didn't even know if I believed in God anymore. I was just kind of like out of that whole, like, I was like, I don't even know anything. I don't really care anymore. And I was like, I'm gonna just try to say a prayer and see what happens. And I said a prayer and I was like, if there's anything you can do right now, just like, just please, like, I need help so bad and I need something to happen that will just change. And right after I said that, I had a cousin that I haven't talked to like since I was a little kid. And he was a, A junkie for like 25 years, 30 years. And then he was sober. He ended up getting sober. He worked at a rehab place. And he randomly, out of the blue shot me a text, like right when I was done praying. And he sent me like a scripture. And then I just thought that was kind of weird. And so like I, I remember texting him, just being like, hey, I'm. I'm actually like, I kind of feel like I need help right now. And then he like text me back stuff. But then I, I blew him off. I was like, I don't know, whatever. The next day, this was Christmas Eve. I was with my wife, we went to like a movie. I came home and I was gonna get Drugs and how I used to do it when I was married was. I would, this sounds so bad. This is so shitty. Like, such shitty person. And then I would have like the. My like drug dealers, they would drop off drugs in my mailbox and then I would go out to the mailbox and get them and then like come back inside and like get high.

[Host]

You like pretend to go get the mail?

[Dakota]

Yeah, yeah. Or I just like sneak out and go grab it real quick. And then she was in her bathroom and I went into the other bathroom and locked the door. And I was like getting ready to, you know, I was like getting ready to do it. And she grabbed the key, unlocked the door and opened it with me using. And it was like the most craziest experience because she was just broken. Like, she was broken. And the saddest part is I was so numb, I felt nothing, not a thing. Like in that moment, I was just like so numb. And then the drugs that I had, I took it, hit it real quick, wadded up like the tinfoil, threw it in the toilet. Because she came back in, was like, where are they? Where are they? And I was like, it's in the toilet. Like, watch, I'll flush it. Flushed it. But I kept the drugs. And then she called my family, My family came and picked me up. And then when I was driving home, I like even just driving home, like I remember I was like, I was like sitting on the door, I was just like so out of it and I was like this close from just like opening the door and just throwing myself out the truck. Like, I just was like, I want to just freak, Throw myself out right now. Got home and I was at my parents house for a while. And then like the next day she like came over, essentially said she's like, hey, like I'm, I'm. I'm gonna get a divorce. And oh, and by the way, during this time I was in rehab. So I checked myself in rehab. Like, I did go to her and I was like, hey, I'm struggling, I gotta get help. I don't know how to do it. And I managed to get help.

[Host]

And so she caught you after she thought you were in rehab?

[Dakota]

Yes. And then from there I remember there was this point where I was like, this is where I was gonna kill myself. And I went, I bought like a gram heroin. And I was just like, I'm gonna just shoot up and I'm gonna just try to kill myself. Like, this is where I'm like so sick of this life. Like, I. I just I don't know how to stop. I don't. I. I, like, can't stop. It felt like it was just. I could never stop. And when I did, that same cousin called me, and he said, hey, I'm gonna come pick you up. I'm gonna get you into my rehab that I work at for free, and I'm gonna come grab you. And there was just this one. There was, like, a brief moment where I just said, okay. I was like, I'll try it one more time. This will be my last time. I was like, if this one doesn't work, I'm done. Like, I'm just gonna kill myself. I. I don't like doing this anymore. And went. And I, like, moved away when I was going through withdrawals and, like, just going through all of that, like, detoxing from drugs. I got served papers and, like, did the divorce thing on top of it, like, and that was just so hard. It was so hard to go through that because, like, when you're getting sober, you're having so many, like, do the emotions and everything that are just, like. It's just, like, endless and. Yeah. And then I just went through all of that, and then right when I finished there, I was there for four months, drove back home, packed all my bags, and left the next day to Utah and moved to Utah and then never moved back from. Since I've been there.

[Host]

Wow. And in rehab, did you. There's. Isn't there, like, a drug that helps heroin addicts?

[Dakota]

Yeah, it's like methadone.

[Host]

Methadone. Were you on that?

[Dakota]

Nope. No. I.

[Zoe Saldana]

And cold turkey.

[Dakota]

Nothing. I. Cold turkey that. And the crazy thing is, is when I was in Utah, I actually was sober for close to, like, four and a half years, five years. So I was actually doing great. Like, I was actually, like, super happy. I was just, like, loving life again. I never got to really enjoy life. It almost felt like I just, like, felt like I missed out on everything. I never got to do anything. I ended up having a relapse, and it was fentanyl. And then I started using fentanyl after.

[Zoe Saldana]

Four years of being sober.

[Dakota]

Yeah, I went back. And that. That one.

[Host]

How long ago was that?

[Dakota]

That one was over. Now it's been over three years. And it was so hard. Like, fentanyl was a whole game changer.

[Host]

And in a bad way.

[Dakota]

Yes. Thank you for clarifying. Yes. It was not a good. Good. Not in a good way. It was. Yeah. It was so hard, like, for. Even from heroin to that. It. The jump from that to that one, it was so tough. And so I. I eventually got to a point there where I was like, okay, I'm gonna have to do something here to get clean. And the cool part was because I had such a long period of time where I was sober, I knew, like, how it kind of worked at this point. I understood addiction a little bit better. I had, like, the knowledge. And so what I actually did. It sounds weird, but I did it just for myself too, so that I could see. But I wanted to. I actually documented a lot of that period of time for myself to watch what it did to. How much it changes you when I watch back on some of those videos. Like, it would blow your mind. Like, your whole thought process changes, like, immediately. Like, I was like, so positive and just, like, happy. Like, even if I didn't have anything, I was just happy. Like, I was like, I don't need anything. I'm just. I can enjoy life. Like, I'm just happy to be alive. And it went straight back to like, I hate myself. You're worthless. You're never going to do anything. So it was crazy to just see how much the drugs do impact that side of things as well.

[Host]

So how are you able to kick that?

[Dakota]

I decided that I was like, the only way I can do this is if I just. So I. At the time, I was living in Idaho again for a little bit. It was during the pandemic.

[Host]

And was that when you relapsed?

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Do you think that had something to do with it?

[Dakota]

Yeah, it had to do with that. And then I moved in with one of my, like, best friends at the time that just got out of prison and he ended up relapsing. And then I was living with him. And then that's kind of how it just like it was a slippery slope there. So what I did was I got a. I got a hotel in St. George. So it was like a nine hour drive. And I drove all the way to St. George and locked myself in a hotel for five, six days and just. Just went through the gnarliest withdrawals and was just in bed shaking, like, like sweating, throwing up. Like, it was.

[Host]

What made you, like, have that revelation? Because I got what you just described.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Isn't easy.

[Dakota]

No.

[Host]

Like, the fault. I mean, at any point you could have just walked out.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Towel room.

[Dakota]

I think it was just that. I think it was the part that I knew. I could finally see that. I knew all of the beliefs in my head at that time were lies. It wasn't real. It was just Like, I knew it was just the drugs. It was all the drugs. Just, like, changing how.

[Host]

I'm thinking this might be a bad analogy because I don't know what it's like to be an addict. First time I got my heart broken. I didn't think I could get over it because I had never been in love before. And so the things I told myself about love and my inability to get over it were based off the premise that I was like, I can't get over this because I had no playbook.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Second time I got my heart broken. Could argue was more painful than the first time, given the stakes. But what I knew, the only difference was, is, like, I. I know I can beat this.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Is that. That's kind of similar to what you're describing?

[Dakota]

Yeah, that is actually. Yeah, that's a great analogy. Like, I feel like that's kind of what it was like for me. And even though it's really hard still, right? Like, it's like, there's always. Now there was that piece of hope. I. I at least had the hope of knowing that. I'm like, no, this doesn't have to be it. Yeah, like, this. This doesn't have to be it. Like, I. I can still. I can still do this. And I told myself, even if I went and did this thing, that if this didn't work, I would check myself into a rehab. So it was kind of just my last effort to try to do it on my own and to see if I could do it. And, yeah, from there, I went back home. I moved out of the place I was staying with my friend, and he actually went straight back to using. And. And then I moved in with my parents, and then I started doing, like. I think I. Maybe for, like. Because it was still. I was still, like, hurting really bad. Like, just. Even, like, the withdrawals, it still lasted for a while. Like, it's. It's a long period of time of just kind of feeling really funky. But then I started 75 hard.

[Host]

What's that?

[Zoe Saldana]

Like, it's like, workout thing.

[Dakota]

The workout thing?

[Zoe Saldana]

Yeah.

[Host]

It's crazy.

[Dakota]

You don't know about that.

[Zoe Saldana]

It's because it's very hard for people who do 75 hard to not talk about it.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dakota]

Sorry, guys. I had to let you know. But I only did that because I was like, I just need something to give. Like, give me some form of, like, a push.

[Zoe Saldana]

It's like three workouts a day or something.

[Dakota]

Yeah. And it's like. Yeah, it's like, you know, I can't even remember what the whole thing is. Like, drink a gallon of water. You gotta. You gotta do an out side workout.

[Zoe Saldana]

It's a lot of like.

[Dakota]

Yeah, I got pretty cut, dude. Like, I got pretty. I got like the best shape at that time of my life. Like, and so I started that and then I moved back to Utah and then kept doing that there and got to a, you know, like a pretty good place where I was just, like, really focused on that side of things, the health side. And then. Yeah, I mean, there's just. Obviously there's a lot of. There's still a lot in there, but, you know, I don't think.

[Zoe Saldana]

Do you feel like you're in a place now where you can, like, be maybe around some of those guys from your childhood and, like, set that boundary, or are you kind of like, I don't even want to go anywhere near that.

[Dakota]

Yeah. Like, for example, my. One of my best friends, like, almost everybody that I was dealing with at that time, they're like, all dead. Most of them are all dead. Like, any of those people that I was, like, a lot of them are dead now. And so I have one friend. Well, I have to. One of them's on methadone and he's at least like, you know, he's been on that for a long time. And then the other one, he is actually, he ended up getting sober. He went back to jail and got out, and he's been doing a lot better now. Sorry. What do you ask me?

[Zoe Saldana]

Like, do you feel like you can set those boundaries?

[Dakota]

Oh, yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

You go back, you're like, should we. Are you, like, do you feel like you're in such a good place where you'd be like, oh, yeah.

[Host]

Just a follow up to that is like, you've been sober for three years.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Have there been moments like, how have you been? Pretty close. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what it's like in your shoes, dude.

[Dakota]

So, I mean, you talk about, like, the breakup part. So this is the first time where I have ever went through, like, a breakup, or you could say it, like, with Taylor, where I have never relapsed. That to me, it's really hard on me. Relationships, for some reason, are extremely hard on me. And I think a big part of it is because, like, again, when I am in, I feel very in and like, almost to a point where it's. It's probably not super healthy sometimes because I'm just like, I. I can't think about anything else but that. It's like. And that to me is the, you know, the side of like being either codependent and you know, or like just even my, my personality is that way. It's like I very much fixate on things that I enjoy or like, like, like the energy drinks. You know, there was a time I was drinking three or four of those a day.

[Host]

That's crazy.

[Dakota]

Yeah, because I was just like, it's, it's just like how I am with things sometimes and I hate it. And so it's really important for me to do them, you know, try to find things that are a little healthier for me that I can kind of guide that.

[Host]

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[Dakota]

So I met Taylor. So when I moved back, I met her at that time. I think I was. And here's the thing, I was only, I think five months sober. Six. Six months sober when I met her. Yeah, when I met Taylor I just again, like how I am as a person. It's really hard for me to feel like I like, like someone enough to give someone myself. Like it's just like, like I just don't ever. I've never felt like I, it's hard for him to find somebody where I really am. Like, yes, like I want to be with you and with Taylor, that, yeah, when I met her, that's where I kind of felt really scared. It scared me more than anything. It scared me for so many different reasons because one, given her whole background, her whole situation of what she was just coming from, I was like scared of that.

[Host]

So like she was already famous, wasn't she, when you met her and mom talked famous?

[Dakota]

Well, yeah, no, no, she, the scandal was already out.

[Host]

Okay.

[Dakota]

Yeah. So yeah, she was, she was famous. But the funny thing is I actually didn't know about really anything of that until the scandal thing came out. But Taylor, she had we have mutual friends.

[Host]

When you say skinny. When she went online and said, yeah, this is going on.

[Dakota]

Yeah. Like, my Tick Tock page at that time was, like, just, like, goofy, like, weird stuff. And then, like, all of a sudden, you know, I'd see a few things about this. I was like, my girlfriend. Yeah. Yeah. Well. And what's funny is, like, I said, like, my best friend is like, she, like, she was friends with Taylor, and so. And I had, like, other mutual friends that knew Taylor and the other.

[Host]

Is she divorced at this point?

[Dakota]

I want to say she was like, I. I think she was. I don't. I mean, I. I think she was, like.

[Host]

She was definitely separated.

[Dakota]

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, yeah, she was like, no, no, no. Yeah, it was. Yeah, don't say that. But, yeah, I think she was fully divorced at this time. And the funny part is she actually. She followed me on Instagram maybe a year before that, which is really funny from, like, my friend, I think, like, you would post stuff of me, and so she followed me, but, like, I didn't really think anything of it. Right. She was, like, married, had kids, because I was like, oh, that's cool. But. And so, like, we followed each other and then. Yeah. And then, like, once all that happened, like, some dms were exchanged, and then it got.

[Host]

That's all what happened?

[Dakota]

What?

[Host]

Once all what happened?

[Dakota]

Like, just, like, following each other back. Yeah, like. Yeah, like, and then, like, DMing each other. Okay. And to be honest with you, for me, I. I really didn't think, like, she even would want to hang out. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I was just like, you're just going through so much right now anyways, like, this. That's, like, the last thing that's probably going to happen. And then. Yeah, that eventually happened and we, like, hung out.

[Host]

How aware of your addiction was she or your. Your. Your struggle with addiction?

[Dakota]

Yeah, she was very aware. Yeah. I'm. I was super. I'm super open with, like, that side of things. Just, like. Yeah. So she, like, knew about all of that.

[Zoe Saldana]

And how soon into the relationship did her arrest happen? The big fight at the house?

[Dakota]

I think it was four or five months in.

[Zoe Saldana]

I mean, she was throwing the chair at you, which.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

Almost hit her.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

Right.

[Dakota]

Yeah. And that was a really scary thing that. That night was. I mean, you want to talk about being, like, in a position of, what do you do that. That's how I. That's how it felt. And I get a lot of shit for that still, but. Well, I mean, I Mean, it don't help just kind of being a dude. Like, I want to be honest, like, just. I think being a guy in that situation is. It was really scary for me. Like, and it was scary for me because, like, her kids were there.

[Host]

And so just the fact that, like, it's a domestic dispute and cops are being called, you're immediately do a thousand percent.

[Dakota]

And so, like, I mean, like, I did take a video. Like, I videoed it, and the only reason I did that was I didn't know it was gonna happen. Like, and so my truck was in the garage, so I could not leave. I tried to leave. I. It just was so bad.

[Zoe Saldana]

So you were videoing her kind of going.

[Dakota]

Yeah. Off the rails. Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

What started it?

[Dakota]

Well, she was hammered. She was absolutely hammered. And so I don't know if you remember in the first season even, but, like, that was, like, one of my big things was I was like, hey, look, if you want to party, you want to do those things, you can go do it. I just. I'm not. I don't want to be there. Yeah. I don't want to be in that. I don't want to be in a relationship like that. And I even said that, like, I made it very clear. I was like, that's fine, if that's what you want to do. Like, it has. You know, you're good to do that. I just. I. I don't want to be around that. I don't want to deal with that. And, you know, obviously, it happened multiple, multiple, multiple times. And I think for me, at that time, it was tough because it's like, well, guess what? That's a world that I know. I understand that world. And I could also see that Taylor was absolutely suffering. Like, she was going through a lot. And so I think that's the part in me that was just very forgiving of it, of just. I'll let you just kind of, like, try to see if maybe you can work some of this out. But that night specifically, it was. You know, when people get really drunk, right, it can go in phases of, like, emotional to then anger. Like, it will change. And so when I picked her up from this party, when I was driving home, she just was, like, you know, crying, breaking down, and just, like, hated herself for kind of, you know, I think everything she did, I think with, like, you know, her family, like, losing everything, it was actually really, really sad to see that. And, yeah, it was just. She was just, you know, just in shambles. And when I got to her house at this time I. I didn't know her kids were there, by the way either. I had no idea. So I actually pulled up next to her house, and I was trying to carry her in the house, and this didn't look good. But, like, for, like, with my luck, there's a. There's a person that's going on a walk at night that is walking around the corner, and Taylor is just, you know, like, just crying and, like, just. And it. And I'm kind of, like, nervous of just that part now. I'm like. And so I had to just make sure I told that person, even, like, I'm like, hey, she's just really drunk. Like, I'm just trying to get her in the house. Like.

[Host]

But even then.

[Dakota]

But right, dude, even then I was kind of like, gosh, damn. I was like, I don't know what to do. And then I go, I get her to the front door. It's locked. And then she's like, oh, my keys are in my truck at the party, like, where she was at, because she left her vehicle. And so I'm like, oh. So I put her back in the car, drove all the way back to the party, grabbed the keys, then came all the way back. This is where things changed. And the other part of her came out like it was the anger part. It was so fast when it switched. But when I got there, I pulled into her garage and parked, helped her in the house, and sure enough, she had a sitter that was watching her kids. So the craziest part is, if I would have known that I could have just knocked on the door and got her in bed, everything would have been okay at that time. But because of having to go back.

[Zoe Saldana]

And then on the drive back to the party, were you provoking her a little bit of being like, oh, no, no, no. Would you leave your keys? Now I gotta drive all the way back?

[Dakota]

No, not at this time. The. The. The part where I was upset was in the very beginning of her just being. Choosing to get drunk again. Like, because she even told me she wasn't gonna drink. Sure. And like, again, this was just the time and time and time after again. But even then, like, once. Once she was in the car and stuff, and it was like, I was just kind of like, I just don't. I don't know why you're. You keep doing this.

[Host]

When you ask that question now, are you able to answer it in a.

[Dakota]

Wait, which question?

[Host]

In the moment, you're like, I don't know why you keep doing this.

[Dakota]

Oh, well, yeah, I mean, I guess.

[Host]

Like, you know, after the whole conversation, we just had.

[Dakota]

No, no, no meaning. Yeah, like, I guess I understood it, but, like, it just felt. Because I just gave her that ultimatum of, like. Well, it wasn't, like an ultimatum, but it kind of was in the beginning of just like, hey, look, like.

[Zoe Saldana]

Which is 100% valid.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

Like, this is my history. I don't want to be around this.

[Dakota]

Yeah. Like, I. I just. Just don't like dealing with that stuff. And. And. And because that is all I've ever seen my whole life. I've always seen the negative effects, whether it's alcohol or anything else. And obviously, like, coming back, I mean, she was, you know, when she was, like, broken, I was just immediately like, okay, I'm going to just try take care of you, get you in the house. And then when we got into the house, when I came back, like, the sitters, like, it was immediately, like, so chaotic that, like, even I told them, I was like, hey, she's just really drunk. I'm gonna try to just get her to bed. And like, the second they walked out the door, it was. Yeah, it essentially. It just turned into the most craziest thing ever. Like, I. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's just.

[Zoe Saldana]

I will say we had a lot of. We had Taylor on. She opened up a lot about her version of this night. She expressed extreme remorse and regret for all of her actions. So I don't want us to, like, talk about this in a way of, like, it was just more. So I was curious on your side and how you remember that night to have happened.

[Dakota]

Yeah. And, I mean, I could go into detail, but, like, I do feel kind of bad. Like, and that's what's really sad, though, too, is because, I don't know, like, I do feel like now it's. It's hard for me because I get a lot of people that are, like, it was him. He was the one that did this and provoked her and pushed her to this thing.

[Host]

Sure. Well, I don't want to relay to the past, as Nellie had mentioned, it sounds like it was a regrettable night for everyone, but that obviously wasn't the end of you two. Right. And I think what I'd like to spend the rest of our time talking about because Taylor's not here, and I hope someday to kind of have this conversation with her, maybe with the both of you together someday. But, like, you know, watching you this season, Season two, it, like, I just, like, my heart breaks for both of You. Right. Because I see love between the two of you.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

You know, and now that you have a child together, being a new father myself, you know, Natalie and I just like the family. Like, we're so protective of our family. I think sometimes couples can lose themselves being too protective of the family because, you know, we, you know, you have a kid, it's about the kid, and you want to keep the unit, but like, you still have to prioritize each other and keep the spark alive. But that aside, you know, you guys seem like you're torturing each other and I, you know, from an outsider looking in and there's way more I don't know about your guys relationship than. No, but. Yeah. My best guess is like, you're both at fault. You both torture each other.

[Dakota]

Yes.

[Host]

You both have moments of antagonizing the other person. I don't know the full scale of what Taylor is suffering through, but she's opened up this season about her trauma with her father.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

It's an incredibly sad story she told this season. The only time and the first time meeting her father. You know, my wife has opened up about her father issues and just how demoralizing that can be to someone and the impact that can have on your entire childhood and just the trauma that can be. You obviously just opened up about your addiction and your trauma. So you both come from this place of extreme hurt in this place of extreme pain. And I just want to focus on, like, you know, like, I guess before we get into it, like, do you think Taylor is your new drug of choice?

[Dakota]

Yeah, a lot of people say that. I mean, clearly there's probably a side to it where it feels that way. Like, it's. And again, that might come back to.

[Host]

The way it feels like the way for you or appears that way in terms of like, why me? Or so many people online, like, have asked you that question or presented that as a possibility.

[Dakota]

Both.

[Host]

Both.

[Dakota]

I mean, but here's the side that like, yeah, again, there, the context of me and Taylor's relationship. If you knew everything, it would all make a thousand times more sense. And that's like, the thing is, it's, you know, you're getting these, like, bits and pieces and you're getting Taylor where, you know, it's whether it's a scene or, you know, whether she's triggered and super upset at me for good reason, for a lot of the stuff, like, I get it. Like, I, I did. And like, and especially given her background and like her daddy issues, like, the things I did were Hurting the, you know, the parts in her and those.

[Host]

Things being like, what was shown season two in terms of like, you not coming fully clean with the early stages of your relationship and what seemed to be like a. I don't know. Nowadays everyone's in these situationships and no one's defining things. And there's always like this gray area of like, we're dating, but we're not together, we're exclusive, but we're not boyfriend and girlfriend and yada, yada, yada. Is that like, kind of what your reasoning is for your initial decisions, for why you forget about what you did or didn't tell Taylor? But I want to more focus on your actions of like, the women that you were hanging out with, hooking up with.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Why were you in your, from your perspective, why were you doing what you were doing in that period of time?

[Dakota]

Yeah, no, great question. I think for me, during that time, like, when I first, when I first hung with Taylor, even again, like, Taylor was just going through all, all this stuff, right? So, like, Taylor, like the, you know, the first thing she's like, told me was like, I'm not ready for any relationship for a long time. So I knew that right from the gate. And I, and I didn't expect that from Taylor. It's not like I expected her to be like, ready to just jump into a relationship. And not only that, but I was also coming from the whole other side for me too, to where I was kind of like, I don't know what I want either, but I am the type of person where I crave love. I want, like, I, I love love. And there's a part where I always feel like maybe I'll never find it. I'm like, I'm always like, I was like, I don't know if I'll ever find it, but like, I want it so bad. And when I did start hanging with Taylor, I realized right away that I was like, oh, she's like, she's so cool. And I, I wasn't sure, like, I didn't know what she was going to be like. And I feel like our personalities and just like who we are as people, it was just like a really cool bond and connection. And if I'm being 100 honest, there was a big part of me, like, even, even some of the girls that were involved, like during that time, for example, like, you know, I, again, like, coming from my background, I never dated. I've never dated, like, ever. Like, I, I married my high school sweetheart. I don't even Know if I went on a date before that. So, like, married my high school sweetheart, was on drugs, like, never dated, moved to Utah, the capital dating world of the century. Like, every single person is, like, just date 50 girls. Like, just be going on dates and do this and that. So I. I don't think I really had a good guidance of how to even navigate that side of things. Of, like, how do I do this? Of, like, taking these girls out, but also, you know, not screwing things up and being, like, a piece of. And so, like, some of those girls, like, there was. There was already, like, a lead up of things, right? Like, so, like, I already took one girl out, like, like, once or twice, or hung with her a few times with my group of friends. Like, the other girl, like, I. I took out a couple times. So, like, those were just, like, things that were already happening. And then, like, Taylor was just in the mix of that, and you were.

[Zoe Saldana]

Operating under Taylor being like, I'm not ready for anything serious for a while. So, like, this is just, like, a fun. I imagine y' all were hooking up at this time. So it was like, this is just a fun, like, friends with benefits to blow some steam off.

[Dakota]

Yeah. And you want to know the funniest part? I have never asked a girl, like, just based off of, like, my personality. Like, especially in the beginning. But, like, I remember I was so. I couldn't read Taylor ever. And I was asking Taylor questions. Like, I felt like a. Like a girl. Like, I was like, what am I to you? Like, I'm like. Like, pretty early on of just, like, what are you wanting with me? Because I just. I don't know. And. And I could tell something inside of me liked her. Like. Like, I. I knew it, and it scared me really bad. And so there was also that part of. I didn't want her to hurt me. Like, I was like, I feel like you're gonna hurt me. And that's the sad part, is I was one that hurt her. And I think part of that was maybe me just kind of. Maybe even a little bit of, like, sabotaging it. Just kind of, like, because I was so afraid of how much I like Taylor and how afraid I was of her and knowing that I didn't know really what she wanted or, like, if this could even be a thing. And during that time, she was still talking to the man she had an affair with. Like, And I, Like, I'm not stupid. Like, I can obviously, like, read those things. I still knew there was something going on there that it just Kind of put me in a spot of. I didn't feel like I could almost. Well, I could have, but, like, I didn't really necessarily want to give her a hundred percent of me because I felt I was, like, afraid of that. I didn't. I didn't want to get, like, hurt by that, because that's how I am. When I'm all in, I'm all in. And so that's what led to some of those dumb mistakes in that beginning stages there, you know, and she knew about both of them, by the way. Like, before we dated, the thing that I did was I just lied. Well, I. I just left out certain details.

[Host]

Lied?

[Dakota]

Yes. I lied. I lied. I did. I lied.

[Zoe Saldana]

Someone say lied?

[Dakota]

No. Well, I was just explaining. I, I.

[Host]

Well, no, when it comes to those things, because they're. There's just. The world is full of people who say things like, I didn't tell you because I didn't want to be mad. And I'm sure that comes from a place of honesty. I don't doubt that you didn't want someone to be mad or people didn't want to be mad, but they presented in a way that I was thinking of you.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

You know, 100%. The truth is you're not thinking of them. You're thinking of yourself and how you don't want to put your. You don't want to get in trouble, you know, this way. We didn't want to tell our parents why we did or didn't things because you knew you'd get punished for it, so you didn't tell them and.

[Dakota]

Yeah, you know, exactly. And like, I was just meaning more the detail side of it. And like, yeah, again, I mean, a lie's a lie. Like, I. I screwed up. Like, I. I know I did it wrong.

[Zoe Saldana]

What do you think it's gonna take for you and Taylor to be in, like, a healthy relationship that you would want your son to one day be in?

[Dakota]

What, like, individually or for me and Taylor to be.

[Zoe Saldana]

For you and Taylor, like, what would have to change? What would have to.

[Dakota]

Well, one of them would have been me, to be honest, and I have now. It's been a really cool experience for me. It's been the worst experience ever for me. But if you want to talk about, like, a. A massive learning experience and just kind of like, finally seeing that, I've never really understood that. Like, I, you know, in my head again. Yeah, I was justifying that. Like, I. And it was really easy for me to do it in my head because I was like, this poor girl's suffering. Like, when I was dating her, I was like, I don't want to, like, add any more fuel to that.

[Zoe Saldana]

You also have a history of justifying your actions.

[Dakota]

Exactly. Yeah. And that's like. That's a total. You know, addicts are known for being liars. That's like, a big thing. You get really good at lying and justifying that stuff. And the weird part is, though, even when I was dating, like, before Taylor, even when I moved to Utah, I was very brutally honest with everyone. Like, with every girl I dated, anything. Like, I didn't even care because I was like, I'm just going to tell you how it is. Like, I don't know if I want anything. Do what you want with that. And with Taylor, because I knew I liked her, that went out the window. I was like, oh, no. I don't know if I can. I don't know if I want to tell you this. Like, I don't know if I want to say this. And that's where I just. Yeah. That I. It sucks because there is a part of me where I feel like maybe. And I don't know if it would have changed anything because there was a lot of other stuff going on that, in my eyes, I just. I don't know if it would have changed. But again, it's not even about that. It's about, yeah, just me doing the right thing. Like, and just, like, staying true to myself. And, like. And I think if I could have just been so honest with her and just been like, hey, I. You know, this is what I did. I don't know why I did it. I'm like. I just. I don't know what, fear, whatever you want to call it, like, me just being a dumbass, but I owe you this. Of just knowing the truth and to at least just give you that as.

[Host]

We sit here today. Does Taylor know everything she needs to know about anything she would care to know?

[Dakota]

Yeah. Taylor knows everything she needs to know right now.

[Host]

And it's my understanding that it took a while to get there.

[Dakota]

It took a very long time.

[Host]

How many lies does Taylor feel like you have told her in that process?

[Dakota]

There was four. Well, I mean, four of like. Well, there was two that were actually, like, in the relationship. Sure. And then, you know, the two were before we dated, but the two when I was in the relationship. Well, I. Well, gosh, I guess I can't even say that because she broke up with me. So technically, no, I wasn't even dating her.

[Host]

But Forget about you.

[Dakota]

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But just. I'm just saying. But like, that, like, even the lies there, like, so those were two. To where we were actually, like, in that pro. Like, in the relationship phase. And. Yeah, one of those lies is really fresh right now. And that one is. Yeah, that one hurt me. And it. And again, it's like, so can you.

[Host]

Elab. Can you. I don't.

[Dakota]

I can't really elaborate on it too much.

[Host]

Is this like a season three situation?

[Dakota]

No, this is. Well, I don't know. We'll see, man. It's. It's just. Yeah. It's like that one kind of hurt me.

[Host]

What do you mean, hurt you?

[Dakota]

Well, meaning just it hurt me to lie about it. And the context of everything changes a lot, too, and I think that's a big part of it is. Even right now, like, I. I can't give you the context of it. I can't. Like about. About me and Taylor. I can't do it.

[Host]

Why? Because you want to protect.

[Dakota]

Yes. And I. And that is all I've ever done. And. And it. And I think that's why it's always been so hard for me, because it has always felt like I have never been able to tell what Dakota has actually experienced throughout this. Because it matters. Like, it. It does. It changes a lot.

[Host]

I don't doubt that, you know, because, like, you know, I've gotten to know Taylor, and I find her incredibly charming and sweet, and at the same time, I also, like, have a lot of empathy for her. But, like. And by her own admission, she can be toxic. You know, she has a toxic side. I feel like if Taylor were sitting here, I could say that to her face, and I feel like she could acknowledge that.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Would you agree with that? That Taylor can be toxic?

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

And that she would acknowledge that?

[Dakota]

Yes.

[Host]

Okay. And I don't doubt that. Like I said, I think you've tortured each other.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I don't know what you can't share. And I respect. I want to respect that. But when you say, you know, I don't think a lot of people understand what Dakota's been through without knowing the detail. I'm going to give you that. I know, like, there's things that you've probably had to protect the people you love. There's probably context people are missing. This is a show that you're on that are watched by women. This is a. This is a show that people are listening to that primarily has a women. Aud. Listen in 2025, I'm sure there are times that you and I, we could sit there and have, you know, get together and sometimes feel like maybe people don't understand our plight, that maybe we don't get the benefit of the doubt in situations. Right. And I want to acknowledge all that and give you all that. But do you still think there are things, regardless of that, like, could you be holding yourself more accountable given the. Whatever the challenges you guys have faced? And I guess what I'm saying, you know, maybe to give it some context.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Last week, Taylor was supposed to be here, supposed to be part of a group interview. She didn't show up. I got the impression there was some drama between the two of you that ultimately led to that happening. And I'm sure Taylor is playing her role in it. I'm sure she is doing things that maybe is antagonizing you or getting you riled up and playing to your triggers. But I want to focus on.

[Dakota]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

I'm also getting the sense that you're doing the same, that you both at different times are still your own worst enemies. And there's these pivotal moments. Maybe she's missing you and she needs the comfort of Dakota, and maybe you're missing Taylor, and you need the comfort of Taylor, and you guys are giving in to your weaknesses of temptations. You know, a lot of this season when you guys. You're still hooking up and you guys say you're done and, like, you know, we've seen the photos from Stagecoach where you're looking each other's faces. I'm like, they fucked that night.

[Dakota]

No, we didn't.

[Host]

But man to man, I just like, for someone who has the strength to lock themselves in a hotel room, being addicted to fentanyl and go through relapse, why can't you do the right thing? And. Because sometimes I feel like the key to maybe you and Taylor being happy in the long run is having the strength to say no to Taylor in the short run, even if Taylor is reaching out to you and saying, I want Dakota, maybe you have to be the person who says that's not healthier for us right now. And in addition to that, not have your moments of weaknesses where you're doing the exact same. Potentially, when I'm getting the sense that maybe you do. Is that. Is this all. Is this all fair?

[Dakota]

I mean, if. If you want the actual statistic numbers there. I mean, I would say it's about 98% her. Okay, so that's okay.

[Host]

But then why can't you say no, right?

[Dakota]

Yeah. I mean, okay, so for me, like, if you're talking about, like, this side of it, like. And again, you're right. This is. By the way, this. This is 100% on me, too. Like, as far as I. I'm in charge of my life.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dakota]

I. Like, at any moment, I can be like, dakota, stop. You're just continuing the cycle of this.

[Host]

Yeah. And maybe I guess her excuse was she wants to trust you. She wants to be with you. You heard her. She wishes she could be with you. But there's that part of her that every time she gives in to being around you, there's that voice that says, you can't trust him. Men hurt you your whole life, from the moment you were born, you can't trust men, and you've done nothing to alleviate that fear or pain.

[Dakota]

Yeah. And I think that is. Yeah, again, that's the part where. Yeah. I didn't show up. Right. Like, I 100% felt in that area.

[Host]

When do you want to start being the person?

[Dakota]

Well, right now. Right now, in this moment.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dakota]

I have nothing. I. That. Like, that she has it all.

[Host]

What do you mean by that?

[Dakota]

Like, meaning anything like. Like any of those secrets or anything that, you know, that I lied to her about or, you know, didn't give her full details. House, like, she has everything right now.

[Host]

Okay.

[Dakota]

And again, you want. And then if I am being honest, and I know a lot of people from, like, a. Like, a viewer point of view, and you might understand this, but having everything aired out to the world is a lot different than just going to a person you care about or your family and telling them something like, you want to talk about fear. That. That's the scariest feeling in the world because. And then doing it with a show.

[Host]

You don't, like, if you have any control over.

[Dakota]

Yeah. You don't have. If they're missing something, it's like, that's not how it was. And that, to me, was really hard to grasp. That was hard to understand that I was like, I don't want to be torched to the world for it. I just want to have, like, a moment with you where I can do this. Like, where I can talk to you. I have, like, a safe place to talk. But that's not the case. And if, you know, Taylor, it's to the world, and. And that's just how she is like, it. And that's her thing, and that's what she's known for is, like, it will be, you know, if there's something that she knows she's Gonna share it. And that's a really. It's scary sometimes. It's. It scares me to death.

[Zoe Saldana]

Is that why you're kind of protecting this issue that y' all are currently trying to work through?

[Dakota]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's. Yeah. And it's just like a. It's a long thing, but, like, again, like the end of the day. And Taylor. Taylor has admitted this too. Like, and she'll, like, she's admitted it to me. She might not admit it to her friend. She might not admit it on camera. We have hurt each other both, like. Like, really bad.

[Host]

You don't think she'd admit that?

[Dakota]

I don't know. Maybe she would. I always get. I don't know, dude. I. I'm always feeling like every time I see Taylor, I can't tell. It's like I. Sometimes I feel like she's ready to kill me when she sees me or she's kind of nice. So, like, that's like.

[Host]

I believe that. I think you're a trigger for her.

[Dakota]

Yes.

[Host]

You know, I also think she loves you.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

You know, I also think she wishes she could be with you.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

She's clearly torn. You know, I just. What I want for you is to find the strength to be whatever rock she needs and not allow her to use you as a trigger. And I think there's it from an outside looking in.

[Dakota]

Yeah. Give me some advice on that.

[Host]

Well, it seems like.

[Dakota]

Give me, like, a couple things.

[Host]

Well, I mean, you love her from an outside. Well, you. I mean, listen, I've been in those situations. We all have. I think everyone listening knows what it's like to be in that, like, toxicity, toxic relationship. You can't. You can't kick someone. You know? You know, you're not supposed to be together or something's wrong, but you can't get rid of each other. But like, again, you have faced harder times.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

You have survived near death situations. And it sounds like Taylor's really hurting right now in a lot of reasons. And again, you are. You are a trigger for her. And it seems like you're a trigger for her more than she's a trigger for you. I'm. I don't doubt she triggers you, but, like, she's been very honest about her relationship with men in general.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

And you're a man.

[Dakota]

Yes.

[Host]

You know.

[Dakota]

Yes, I am.

[Host]

Thank you. And like, you know, my wife has opened up to me about her issues, and so I take great pride and responsibility to know that while it's not my fault and why I Wasn't there. In times of trauma that she experienced, I have to hold myself to a higher standard and be there for her because of what has happened. And I've accepted that challenge knowing, you know, when I met Natalie, she was pretty open pretty quickly about what she's been through, you know, And I could have been like, that's too much for me, and I don't bag it, you know, whatever. But I. You know, I couldn't just say, well, you deal with it on your own. I don't want any part of that. It's like, you're. You're gonna be my wife if I'm gonna be your husband. If you're gonna. If we're gonna be a couple.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

I have to do whatever I can to not be that trigger.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

You know, even. And I. And I have my shit. You know, I've only dated women. Women. Right. And so women have only. You know, when it comes to people who have caused me the most emotional pain in my life, it's women.

[Dakota]

Yeah. Same.

[Host]

Yeah. But I can't use that as an excuse, especially with my wife, who. Pain or not, like, what Natalie's experienced through men, what I've experienced is nothing compared to that.

[Dakota]

Right.

[Host]

You know, and the childhood I've had, I've been compared to what Natalie was raised in is a night and day difference. And I want you to try to focus on being her rock, even if that means you can't have her in the way that you would like to have her. Does that make sense?

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

I think you need to start saying no.

[Dakota]

Right. Okay. Yes. Okay. Because this is the thing. So me and Taylor have the same therapist.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dakota]

So it's for you guys. You guys are together, though, so. But so, like, that takes a lot of work. Yeah, it does. And that's the thing. And so. So, like, even just with that alone, like, that concept of, like. Yeah, like, I need to be her rock. I need to be there for her. I think the part that was so hard, and this is what I've talked to, like, you know, art therapists about a lot, is I am being pushed away completely. Like, And. And this. This has been for a very long time. So, like, for me, like, in any relationship, Right. If you were to. If, you know, if you, like, let's say you hurt his trust.

[Zoe Saldana]

Trust.

[Dakota]

Okay. You did something bad, like, for you to show Nick that, like, you can be trusted again. The only way to do that is by you showing up for him and showing him by action, by doing certain things to gain that Trust back.

[Zoe Saldana]

You prove you're truthful by telling the truth.

[Dakota]

Yes. And then you gain your trust back.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dakota]

And I think the part that was really hard is I've never. How it's felt for me is I've never felt like I've actually had Taylor. Ever.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dakota]

Because I. I've. Whether it's me wanting to show her in ways or have something like. Like, Taylor's been broke up with me, just so you guys know, for 11 months.

[Host]

Sure.

[Dakota]

So it's.

[Zoe Saldana]

How old is your son?

[Dakota]

He's four. Almost 14 months. And so it has been like. That was the part where it was really hard. And I was trying to, like, figure that out with, like, the therapist. I was like, hey, like, if I'm wanting to, like, try to, like, show her or, like, have something, but at the same time, it, like, I'm. I'm not even her boyfriend right now.

[Host]

See that. I think that's the part I think.

[Dakota]

And maybe that's where I'm at.

[Host]

Yeah. Well, I don't think it's your intention.

[Dakota]

No. I'm confused.

[Host]

No, it's just more what I'm hearing from you, underneath it all is I need to be with her. And we need to be in a relationship for me to be able to show her the type of partner I can be. And I'm suggesting you don't need to be. And I'm suggesting that, well, hey, like, for better or worse, you two have. Well, for better, you two have a kid together.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

And regardless of what happens, as a romantic couple for the next 17 years, your guys will, I guess, be in each other's life to a certain extent. And you can still be a support system. You can be an example to her. You can be a great father to your son. You can be someone she can always count on.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Even if she doesn't 100% accept you back as her partner. And I think you are operating under this premise almost a little bit as a victim. And I don't doubt that you've been victimized in this relationship. And I think you both have. And I think you sometimes lead with your pain that has been caused by this relationship as opposed to just accepting the reality of this situation is that whether Taylor can. Wants to be with you or not, she can't. Not in a healthy way. You know, she hasn't forgiven you yet. The wounds are too fresh. And I think you. You know, and. But she. She's, you know, like you said, 98% of time, she's reaching out to you. And and you give in. You give in to the. The part of you that wants her back. And I, I get it. I've been there, you know, like, what I'm. What I'm suggesting to you is a very difficult task. You know, maybe as difficult as anything you've been through.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

But I think you're ca. I mean, if you can lock yourself in a hotel room and get clean, I think you can do the thing that I'm suggesting you might need to do to get the thing that you say you want to get.

[Dakota]

Yes. And that exact advice that my therapist gave me, she was like, dakota, there is nothing you can do right now. But literally just say no. Like, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna keep sleeping with you. I'm not gonna, like, keep doing, you know, seeing you. Like, if, you know, just to focus on me being a co parent and letting that just be for now and still showing up in the ways that I can in, like a healthy way and being supportive and doing all of those things you just said. And yeah, I think that that is the hardest part is again, it's. It's so hard because I love her and it's like, yeah, I don't. I don't want to lose her. And part of her wound is abandonment. Right. So if she is reaching out to me, it makes me feel shitty sometimes if I say no to that. Because I'm like, that's your biggest fear, is me saying no.

[Host]

Yeah. But I think you're old enough to know the difference, and I think you're old enough immature to know that. And I'm sure she might even in the heat of the moment, use it against you. I mean, she might even throw it in your face. I'm sure she has, but it's going to take someone.

[Dakota]

Yeah, you're right.

[Host]

Being healthy in the. With a healthy mindset.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

And. And I just get the sense, you know, again, you. You've. You have conquered some pretty dark demons. And maybe you're just at a place that she isn't yet.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

And she might need you to be stronger than you're. You're giving yourself credit for.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dakota]

No, you're right.

[Host]

And.

[Dakota]

Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's what I've been told, too. They're like, it's not going to be Taylor that's going to do it. You're going to have to do this. Like, you got to just do it.

[Host]

So how bad do you want it?

[Dakota]

Bad. Yeah. So, like that. And that is what I'm like. I mean, in the last five days or whatever, I have done it.

[Host]

Okay.

[Dakota]

And so. And I hope that I can, like, keep with that. And I feel like, especially right now, just given everything, I think, think I do feel like a big shift in me right now of just wanting to really make sure I do things in a different way, moving forward and just, like, standing my ground and knowing that if I do keep doing this, I mean, it's insanity. It is literally insanity. It's just like we're doing the same thing over and over again, and the result is not changing. And so it's like. I mean, they teach us that, like, in rehab, you know, and so, yeah, it is something that I know I need to just do. But the part, I think that has always made it so hard for me is the. It's the kid part. You know, I take the kid out of, like you take my son out of it, the whole thing changes. But I. And I know there. And I'm saying it's like, well, you got to do what's best. Like, you know, this isn't what's. I get all of that. I understand all of that, but it does not mean it's not the hardest thing in the world, too, because everything now affects my son, too. So whether that's co parenting, me not getting to see my son as much like this. This is my first kid.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dakota]

And I've practically had to be doing this co parenting thing right out the gate.

[Host]

I. I don't doubt it's a challenge.

[Dakota]

Yeah, it sucks.

[Host]

But.

[Dakota]

But it. Yes, you.

[Host]

You know, late nights and some of the shenanigans that you guys seem to be doing. I. I don't know how much your son has to do with that part.

[Dakota]

Well. Well, to be honest, sometimes I'm sure.

[Host]

Big picture, I get it.

[Dakota]

Well, no, it just allows me to, like, be around him, you know, different things like that. So it's like long game, man. Long game. There you go. It's the long game where it's like, it's. It's not doing any. It's not doing anything.

[Host]

You have the benefit of right now. Like, Natalie and I were talking about this, you know, we're connecting with our daughter in ways, you know, especially for me now. Like, Natalie has been connecting with river since the moment she found out she was pregnant. And it's different for dads.

[Dakota]

Right.

[Host]

There's a lot of things right now River's not going to remember. You know, we're gone for two days. It's harder on us, right, than it is on River.

[Dakota]

Oh, yeah.

[Host]

You know, she's not going to remember us coming and going and things like that. Soon your son is going to remember more things. So, like, I understand it's hard not to be around your son and. Yeah. I mean, like, I'm. I'm so grateful for what Natalie and I have in this moment that I don't have to co parent and I don't have to be her and I'm out or I'm away from her. The longest I've been away from her was three nights.

[Dakota]

It's hard.

[Host]

It's brutal.

[Dakota]

It is.

[Host]

But the good news is she won't. Like, she doesn't remember that. Now you're.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

You got to think about. No, I know three or four years from now and if you put the work in now.

[Dakota]

Yeah, you're right. And that. Yeah. And you're right. And regardless of even what happens with me and Taylor, like, and, And I do know that again, it goes back to that whole thing. It's like in the moment, it feels like it's the end of the world. Like, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'll never. I'll never have happiness again. I'll never. I'll never find someone again or be able to have a family. You know, I'll never have like a full. Like a family. And I think that's just something I've always craved so bad my whole life that I just, I. I want that more than anything. And it's, you know, it's not. It's not working. And maybe not working right now, and. Which is. And that's fine. And. And it is very much out of my control to where now I need to just. Just do the right thing.

[Host]

Yeah. Because, like, you know, I get it. Right. But what you don't want to be five years from now.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Is looking back. You want to look back. If it doesn't. If it doesn't work out with you and Taylor, you want to know that you did everything you could do.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Right. And right now, if you didn't change, if you change nothing about what you're doing, minus these past several days that you said, you know, you're really trying to put it in that effort. But let's say you. Goes back to whatever patterns you've been demonstrating, you, the two of you for the past six months, say 11 months, what you're going to think is, it was too hard. I wish I was stronger. I wish I was this. I wish I did more. Because right now you're Saying it's too hard. It's like I could. It's. Oh, but it's hard. And I want to be around my son and I get all that. But five years from now, you won't be saying that to yourself. You'll be wishing you had the strength and the guts to make the sacrifice in the short term because you'd be wondering if I would have done all those difficult things if I would have said no to Taylor, if I would have just focus on being a good co parent and being a good father and, and being the emotional strong person in our dynamic. What if.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

Would have that have changed and you don't want to be that person?

[Dakota]

Give me some dog. Yeah, I actually, I actually love that. Yeah, you're right. That's. Yeah, spot on. He's a good guy. Yeah, that is. Yeah, I do. I actually, I agree 100 with that. And I think that would be something I would look back on, especially because I do feel like I do have a guilty conscience and I think it would eat away at me down the road, so. And I don't want that either, so.

[Host]

But this would be a great place to end it. But I do have to ask, and I hope I'm not triggering you, but we had Macy on the other day and she is not a fan of yours.

[Zoe Saldana]

Oh, you're not a fan of hers?

[Dakota]

And let me just say. Let me just say I don't not like anybody. I don't not like people, okay? I. I love people. That is like. And anybody who knows me knows that the part that I think is hard. And I can't even blame Macy for this. And this is a funny thing. Like, she just said something about this too. Like how, oh, every time we're together, it's like, he's always nice to me and we like, get along and blah, blah, blah. And to be honest with you, that's the truth. That's not me faking that either. It's like, I, I don't, I don't not want to like you. I, I actually get along with Macy when we hang out and we talk and I'm, I'm around her. But the part that drives me nuts is it's like I just feel like she sits and just bashes me 24 7.

[Host]

Yeah, I get that impression too.

[Dakota]

And I'm like, like, okay, Taylor's her friend.

[Host]

She's a girl's girl. Macy's opened up about some of the men in her life and what they've done to her. So I imagine you can have empathy for that. And I think you're just a trigger. And then you see, and then quite honestly, everything we just talked about, she's not going to give you the benefit of the doubt. And she sees a person who's not doing everything he can do. And she sees you playing a big part in this toxic relationship that you have with Taylor. Yeah, right.

[Dakota]

And I mean. Yeah. And it goes back to the same thing, though. So it's like, you know, obviously like hurt Taylor. It's like. I know that. I mean, you know, she's not, you know, in those moments and in different things, she's obviously probably just like not saying great things about me. And so for Macy, you know, she's just the one that's sitting there hearing all this. But I think the part that just like always bothers me kind of is it's like my friends I vent to or even husband on the show. It's like, like, guess what? I'm also doing, like, hey, you know.

[Host]

Just the only part I would challenge you on is as I'm imagining you're thinking, I don't know why she hates me. I'm not doing anything to her and there's nothing I can do. She just hates me.

[Dakota]

No, I see. I am like, I have two sides to me right here. One side I want to just go off right now because I have very good reason in a lot of these things where it's like, like, Macy, I mean, I, I just go based up. Let's go off the show. I mean, no offense, but Macy, what's your storyline? Your storyline is literally bashing me. It's bashing me the whole time. That's what she does. It's like, it's like I'm Taylor's friend. Dakota's bad and that is what she has ran with. That's what she does. I mean, even taking like. And, And I feel like here's the other part to it as well. Me and Taylor, as far as when it comes down to like, like opening up and sharing things that probably shouldn't be shared, a lot of the times.

[Host]

You guys are definitely the most vulnerable.

[Dakota]

And there you go. Which I mean, and if you don't think these other couples have things that they're just. I'm not going to share it. Okay, cool. That's fine. But like, you feel like she's being.

[Host]

A bit of a hypocrite.

[Dakota]

A thousand percent. And I feel like I am like her. Like, it's just, it's perfect. It's perfect for her. It's like, I'm Taylor's friend. They're always fighting. We hate him. And then, like, I think now she's recruited Michaela, so. Which is so weird because I've. I've always loved Michaela. I don't have an issue with them. I don't have an issue with any of them. I just.

[Host]

Just prove them all wrong. Be that person we just talked about.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

That things will change.

[Dakota]

Well, and I do that, too, with her, even. It's like, I'm never, like, sitting there, like, fighting.

[Host]

Don't do it to get their approval. Don't do it to get them to like you. Just do it. Because five from now, you don't want to have regret.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I. I really feel like the rest of it will play out.

[Zoe Saldana]

Do you think they see behavior from you that they're not fans of? Like, do you think it's. It can't be just everything Taylor relays to them? Like, have they.

[Host]

Or is it.

[Dakota]

I mean, I don't know how much I can share. Like, I mean, like, if. And these girls, let me just say.

[Host]

Like, I, I don't doubt that whatever.

[Dakota]

Taylor does, like, they're not.

[Host]

They're not giving you the benefit. I, I don't doubt that. I, I don't. They're not. They're not looking to give you a pass.

[Dakota]

Never.

[Host]

That's clear.

[Dakota]

And so, and, and, yeah. And so, you know, it is one of those things. And I think that is something where I. I do, unfortunately, you know, like, I think I'm. I'm obviously, like, really hard on myself, and I think I do have that part in me where I, I. It bothers me sometimes when people don't like me. And that's not healthy. That's not good either, you know? But, like, I really do like people a lot. And so when someone doesn't like me, it, like, hurts my feelings.

[Host]

Prove them wrong.

[Dakota]

Yeah. I'm like, why don't you like me? And I get it. I understand it.

[Host]

Forget about what Taylor's done.

[Dakota]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I do think that's the part you are stuck on, because she has her side. Right. She has shit she needs to work on. Be accountable for. Admit to things you are not. There are two sides of the story. You're half the problem. And I think whether it's me right now or people in general coming down on you, your first defense is to kind of be like, I'm not the only bad guy in this situation. Situation, dude.

[Dakota]

Well. But that's what's so hard Is because it's like, you have these girls and they're. It's to the world. So it's like. And then, I mean, you take even Macy's background, like, like she compares me to her abusive ex. And it's like, those aren't little things to throw around to the public and like, put me in that position of being like, yeah, that's.

[Host]

That's your. That's a fair point.

[Dakota]

Yeah. And so, like, I think that is where I am. Like, I'm a very, like. Yeah, I get very, like, defensive of that because I'm like, how dare you. Like, don't. Like, why would you do that to me?

[Host]

Not.

[Dakota]

But no, you're. Again. And I get what you're saying. I'm not. I'm not saying, like, what you're saying is wrong, like, because you're right. I'm just saying, like, that side of it, I think that is where it's.

[Host]

Hard for me five years from now. Just remember, you don't want to be like, too hard.

[Dakota]

I remember that.

[Host]

Dakota, thanks for coming. First of all, I know you know, and I do want to thank you because. And I've said this a lot recently, especially covering the show and talking about you and all the women on the show. I don't think we appreciate all the things that you guys are willing to do for our entertainment. You guys are talking about, you know, it's a fun show, it's a funny show. But you guys, whether you're talking about addiction, whether it's the women talking about some of the abuse they've incurred and everything in between, I really appreciate your guys vulnerability and the vulnerability you showed today. And I'm just. I'm rooting for you as man to man, as a person. I'm rooting for you and Taylor. But I see the good in you guys and I. I just really hope you guys reach your full potential.

[Dakota]

Yeah, same. Thank you, man. I appreciate that. And I think, yeah, that's. That's just what I want too. And I just probably have messed that up trying to go about that the right way.

[Host]

So I. I think there's still a. You can always.

[Dakota]

Yeah, I can always change. You're right. There's always a new day tomorrow and I can start. So there you go. Yeah, I want to work on that, but.

[Host]

All right, buddy.

[Dakota]

Yeah. Thank you for having me. By the way.

[Zoe Saldana]

Thank you for coming.

[Dakota]

Really cool. I appreciate it. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret.

[Host]

It doesn't have to be. Let me point something.

[Dakota]

Out.

[Host]

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