Nick (2:01)

Okay. All right. What makes her a monster in law?

Ellie (2:05)

So when I first originally met her when I was like still dating my fiance, so he's my boyfriend at the time, she was great.

Megan (2:12)

Like we were really close.

Ellie (2:14)

Like everything was fine. We had like casual conversations, everything. You know, I was invited to a lot of holidays and stuff like that. But then basically once I got the ring on my finger, everything went downhill so fast.

Nick (2:26)

What was the first thing you noticed that changed?

Ellie (2:29)

One of the things definitely that I noticed change is when my fiance, he has a daughter from a previous relationship. So when I got introduced to her and we started becoming close, that's when I kind of started to notice a change that it like, I don't know if she felt like I was replacing her in his daughter's life or whatnot, because she still has a great relationship with her. Is just like, I thought she would be happy that I was coming in as like a second mother figure to this child, and she just was not happy about it whatsoever.

Nick (3:02)

And is that is like your read on the situation or was something said specifically that made it very clear that she wasn't happy?

Ellie (3:10)

She definitely said some things she didn't like. Some of the parenting choices we made together as a couple, once I started meeting the daughter and like, just me getting in, like, just like little things with homework or the way she styled her clothes and things like that, and then like rules around her cell phone, that was another thing that his mom just hated that I did so and that she felt like it was all me who made these rules. But it was definitely a discussion between the two of us. Like, yeah, this is what we decide on as a couple. For his daughter as like a parental unit.

Nick (3:47)

What's. What's his daughter's relationship with mom? Her mom, she.

Ellie (3:52)

They have a great relationship. So just like it was kind of just a past relationship. They had a kid and then they just decided moving forward, like they weren't good enough in a relationship. But we have, all three of us have like a really good co parenting schedule and everything. There's never like times where we can't see his daughter or, you know, we butt heads on things. We all just have really, over the past year and a half, really got a good co parenting down, basically.

Nick (4:18)

So the obvious question is, what role is your fiance playing in this dynamic and why isn't he able to diffuse this tension between you and his mom?

Ellie (4:31)

So the reason is, is he does not take his mom's side at all. He stands up for me every single time and she hates that every single time. Like he'll. She'll say something and he's like, mom, that's not cool. You're being really rude. And she hates that 100%. So it's. They don't have the best relationship either. So that's, like, already. So before I even came in, there was already bad tensions between those two. So then it just kind of got worse when I got it, basically.

Nick (5:02)

So. And what. Have you tried to do anything directly? Like, have you tried to have a sit down with mom and just say, hey, you know, like, what's up?

Ellie (5:12)

Yeah, we've had two sit down conversations. The first one was right after we got engaged because she just started flipping out on us for little things and said we were very selfish for going on a trip right after we got engaged and not bringing his daughter. We were like, well, it's just a trip for us to. To like, celebrate this new engagement and everything and to start looking at wedding venues together. And we didn't really want anybody else's opinion right away for wedding venues. So she didn't like that his daughter wasn't invited and that nobody else was invited. I even like. So I go to counseling regularly, and I have sat down with my counselor, and I'm like, I need to help getting out my emotions because I'm a very emotional person. I cry when there's conflict. So, like, I even wrote a letter to her being like, you know, I'm really just confused as where our relationship went wrong. Is there anything I did? How can I fix that? And she just never could give me pinpoint examples of where I went wrong. And she felt like I was being rude. She just said, you were being rude. And I was like, okay, well, can I have, like, examples? And she was like, well, it was in the past, but you were being rude at that point. So when we have these sit down conversations, like, we both get out our feelings and we let his parents get out their feelings, but they just. Nothing ever gets fixed. We've even tried distance, too, and it's hard because we all live proximity pretty close to each other. But even the distance, like, we're like, hey, we just need some time to diffuse the situation. And they don't respect it whatsoever at all.

Nick (6:43)

And when you say they include, like, his dad in that or her partner.

Ellie (6:46)

Yeah, his dad. His dad more just, like, plays a role as kind of, like a referee. I would kind of say, like, he never gets into the conflict, but if, like, he feels like it's getting too tense or whatnot, he'll be like, all right, everybody just needs to calm down. But he's never said any, like, rude comments to me or my fiance.

Nick (7:03)

And when you say calm down, like, are you raising your voice? Are you yelling? I know you Said, you're an emotional person, but like, how elevated is are these?

Ellie (7:11)

My fiance is a yeller, but he's a loud talker in general, so it's kind of hard to differentiate, like, yelling aloud. He will get very frustrated with his mom and he will yell, and then both, like, his dad and I will come in and be like, all right, there's no reason to yell. Let's all just like, talk at a normal body.

Nick (7:27)

What specifically is he getting frustrated by when it comes to mom?

Ellie (7:31)

So he's had some personal problems that he's had to get over in the past, and his parents helped him a lot in the past through, like, his recovery journey and things like that. But they hold it over his head. They. They're like, well, you messed up in the past and now we have the right to bring it up whenever we want to.

Nick (7:51)

How do they bring it up?

Ellie (7:52)

They'll basically say, you know, back when you were an addict, you were exhibiting the same exact behavior. So are you using again? Are you doing that? Or like, if we're like, hey, you know, we're trying out this new parenting technique with his daughter, she'll be like, well, it's good because back when you were an addict, you were never a parent. And then like, those things just aren't useful at all. Like, I don't know why she feels the need to bring those up.

Nick (8:19)

Yeah, not helpful. Two things here that you can try to work on because, like, you know, I can't talk to grandma and I don't and doubt she's gonna call in.

Ellie (8:33)

Oh, God, no, she would.

Claire (8:35)

No.

Nick (8:37)

It's so funny.

Ellie (8:37)

We were like, she will never. Because we've even tried, like, group counseling together or like even saying like, hey, maybe we can all sit down as a family. Because she very much involves the brother a lot that my fiance has to kind of also diffuse. He'll, like, after a fight, will text him and be like, hey, you need to apologize to mom. And he's like, well, do you know what mom said to me and Ellie? And he's like, no, but just apologize and just diffuse the situation. We don't need any more conflict kind of thing.

Nick (9:05)

Okay. Grandma's not calling in and we're not going to change grandma. So I think that's one thing that you and your, your fiance need to accept that, like, right now you're. I think you're approaching this from the mindset of how do I change my mother in law so we can get along better. Yeah, because you think she's wrong and she probably is. And it sounds like you are at least trying to like get on her level. You've tried to like say, hey, you know, where did we go wrong? Right. So one, you probably could work on dealing with conflict better than you do now. Yeah, right.

Ellie (9:44)

Yeah.

Nick (9:44)

So when she's just like saying, well, I don't know, it's in the past or you were just rude, I mean, you could challenge her if you wanted to. Again, I don't know how, I don't know what's going to come of that, you know, But I do think that could be something you generally work on in general. And just like, you could almost use your mother in law because like she's, she fights unfairly, as people often do. And it's not a, they're not trying to resolve conflict. I don't know what your mother in law's motivation is, but it's, it's not peace. Right. It's not resolution. It is probably control of some kind, influence of some kind. Right. And then she weaponizes obviously her son's sobriety and, and, and maybe just your desire to be close with the family against you. And then, you know, she says and does the things that she's doing and then when she, and then when you try to resolve it, she's now just like, well, I don't, I know it's in the past and you were just rude to me. It's just like, okay, you know, and yeah, I would say, well, you know, if you can't remember, then I don't know, you know, there's nothing really to result. But like, I would just ask her. It's just like, well, is that your, you know. Yeah, it's just more like if you can't remember, I would challenge her. And like, if you can't remember, then how do you know I was rude?

Claire (10:55)

Yeah.

Nick (10:55)

And is it just because, or, or, or were we just, was I rude or did we just disagree on a topic?

Ellie (11:01)

Yeah, that's a good one.

Nick (11:02)

And then how do you, you know, and you can say also like, I, you know, I always want, I always appreciate feedback on how I can better communicate with you, but I do get frustrated that you seem uninterested the way you communicate to me and how it makes me feel. Have you ever considered how you speak to me? And if that's ever rude, I don't even think she cares or considers it. You know what I'm saying? She thinks she's in a position where she looks down on you like a child the same way she probably does. Her son and a girlfriend he would maybe bring home as a 15 year old.

Ellie (11:36)

Yeah.

Nick (11:36)

Again, like that's just something just getting better at like conflict resolution. But the solution to your problem really is to care less, you know. Well, listen, what you have going for you is the most important part is you have a partner that you seem to be on you, you seem to be on the same page with.

Ellie (11:59)

Yeah.

Nick (11:59)

You're not feeling disconnected from your partner. He does have your back, you know, and it's not like, you know, oh, it's just like, you know, he sides with his mom or he just like, I don't know, my, my partner doesn't like to get involved or he hates conflict. I hear that all the time. So like you have that going for you where other people who have problems with some other in laws don't, which is like you and your partner are on the same page. You also have a healthy relationship with the mother of, of his child. And so the three of that dynamic is far more important than, than mom in law. It just is. Right. And what mom. Yeah, what mom is not realizing or maybe she does and as is operating from a place of fear is that she really has no control or power in the situation. And that's what matters most to her.

Megan (12:44)

Okay.

Nick (12:44)

Right.

Claire (12:45)

Yeah.

Nick (12:45)

And the way you make her feel like what she does works is how much you care and how you respond and how your fiance responds. She triggers you guys, she gets you activated. She knows you wrote her a letter, you know, like that's someone who cares. You know, she would never think to write you a letter. She doesn't even want to like resolve conflict with you. She, you know, it's like she wants you caring about her, you know, so you not caring, you know, it's like if you like. Because everything you've told me up until this point, nothing really like it didn't require you to, you know, you didn't need mom in law's permission to take this trip. You didn't mean mom and you didn't mean her approval for any, any, any of the stories you just told. You didn't need her approval for any of that. You wanted it.

Claire (13:35)

No.

Nick (13:35)

You didn't need it. Right?

Ellie (13:36)

Yeah.

Nick (13:38)

And you have to separate the fact that you want something versus need something.

Claire (13:42)

Yeah.

Nick (13:42)

Because what you need, what you want from this woman is not anything that you need. It's a, it's a, you know, it's a perk. And she operates from like a, like a person who really wants control. So like the best thing you guys could do is not let her get to you. Not let her get to you. You know, when she makes those rude remarks, you just ignore.

Claire (14:03)

Yeah.

Nick (14:03)

And you say, you know, if anything, you're just like that. That was you in the calmest possible way. That was unhelpful and hurtful. And I don't know why you say things like that, but you don't even, like, engage with it. You know, you just. If you say anything, you say that.

Ellie (14:17)

Yeah.

Nick (14:18)

And you. You just. You don't. You know what I'm saying? You don't give her the attention. And then you are going to have to accept the fact that your relationship with her is not where you want it to be. You know, like. Like you mentioned you. You already tried distancing yourself. Like, I. Again, I don't think this requires some sort of, like, all right, we're just gonna ignore them for a month. You know, we're gonna avoid them. You know, I just think you just have more of a casual relationship. You know, okay, you can be busy. You know, you can decline their requests to come over or invite you over if that ever happens. You can just be unavailable. You don't have to say, we're not talking to you anymore. And if you want. If you want to be in our lives, then you need to do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, she's not going to respond well to that. You know, what I'm saying is you have to get to a place where you almost make her come to you. You and your partner. Go on with your life. Focus on being a good cop. You know, focus on helping your partner raise his daughter at his comfort level and his in the mom's comfort level. Because, like, obviously, you know, you want to be respectful of that dynamic because it is their daughter. And like, the fact, you know, it seems great that you are welcomed into that. That kind of partnership that they have. And I would just focus all your energy on protecting that and. Because, like, again, mother in law is just not really relevant. She's not needed. She's not required. She wants to be wanted. And you responding the way you do is encouraging her to continue to do what she's doing.

Ellie (15:54)

Yeah.

Nick (15:54)

And so you just have to accept that I can't change who she is. I'm not a therapist. I can't push her to treat her son differently and treat me differently. All I know is that we honestly don't need anything from her. And that's great that they were there for their son when he needed their help the most. And if they want to throw that in his face, let them. But like, he doesn't need them today, doesn't need their money. He doesn't need their approval. You know, he should, you should always be respectful. You know, you should always lead with love. You know, when they say hurtful things, I wouldn't fight fire with fire. I would say that was that. I'm hurt that you said that, but I forgive you. But like, that I'm not. I don't. You know, when they ask, why don't we see you guys anymore? Well, you know, sometimes it's not always a pleasant, you know, interaction, you know, you. But I, I think it comes down to you need to make her come to you too. You guys need to stop going to her and asking what's wrong. You've already tried that and she's giving you nothing to work with. Yeah. Because she's not interested in resolving the conflict. That's. Honestly, that's how I would, that's how I would approach it. I don't, you know, and it's, it's might be.

Ellie (17:02)

Yeah.

Nick (17:03)

It's certainly not a short term resolution. It's not like, hey, say this and everything's going to be fine, but.

Ellie (17:09)

Right.

Nick (17:09)

I can't, I can't control her, you know, But I think, I feel, I feel pretty confident that you need to make her come to you. And in the meantime, just don't do. In the problem, don't do anything or say anything. That just adds fuel to the fire.

Ellie (17:26)

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's like what we're trying to do now is like very like when she does reach out for things, like if it's a question that needs an answer, like, yeah, I'll answer it. But if it's just like simple things, like there's just no need to respond and no need to. Just like you said, I think before when she would say rude things, we were so quick to defend ourselves that it just didn't help at all.

Nick (17:50)

Yeah. I mean, listen, like, she's not your mom. It's his mom. Right. And so you, in a weird way. Not that like it's. I'm not saying like you should be happy about this, but like, in a weird way, it's almost a good thing that he's like, not that close with his mom or needs to be that close with his mom. So like you, I would just follow your fiance's lead in terms of what he needs in terms of his relationship with his mom or his dad. Gotcha. But don't be the Partner who just likes the idea of being close with her mother in law so much so that you force the issue and, and just make it easier for her to be mean to you, you know?

Ellie (18:29)

Yeah.

Nick (18:30)

Because you want it so bad and she just doesn't want to give it to you because she doesn't have to. Because like she just doesn't yet doesn't have to. And the truth is she doesn't realize that she is not operating or negotiating from any position of power. And you actually have more power than she does because you have a stronger relationship with her son and probably more access and a better relationship, at least at this point with his daughter, you know.

Ellie (18:56)

Yeah.

Nick (18:56)

And he, your, your partner, his, her dad is obviously in the best position to control his daughter's access to whoever he wants. And you are in the driver's seat there. So you don't need to try to fix this, you know, faster than she wants it to. I understand that would be ideal. I understand if you had it your way, you would like to take the healthy approach and squash it. But you've tried that. It didn't work. So I would just let her come to you. Because right now when you're coming to her like you're in her world, it's like you're showing up on her home turf. Now it's just more like, yeah, hey, you want to play ball? You want to, you know, then. Then you need to show up and, and meet your terms. And if she doesn't want, you don't need not even asking her. It's like you need to wait for her to come to you. And I don't even know if that's going to ever happen. You know, this might be a stubborn old lady, but yeah, the more you don't need her and the more that you show that energy and you act on unbothered, if there is ever a chance for this woman to like come around, humble herself and try to extend an olive branch to you and her son, that will be the reason why.

Ellie (20:03)

Gotcha. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I feel that's super helpful because I feel like through counseling I've always been told like, you know, try to speak your feelings to her, try and do this, try and do that, but it's like exhausting because nothing ever gets solved.

Nick (20:17)

And I agree with whatever advice that you got from a therapist, but it sounds like you did that.

Ellie (20:21)

Yeah.

Nick (20:22)

And I don't think writing 17 letters is the, you know, or making four different phone calls or, and just begging for this person's approval. Her response to what you said was dismissive and downplayed it and again told me that you're dealing with someone who doesn't like, isn't like. Yeah, you're right. I honestly, I hate that we're fighting. You didn't get that energy. You just got the. You were rude to me, you know?

Ellie (20:44)

Yeah.

Nick (20:45)

Again, she wants to operate from a position of power and she doesn't have any. So. Yeah, you have to very softly and very casually show her how much power she doesn't have.

Ellie (20:57)

Yeah, I think it's going to be hard, but that's definitely helpful. 100%.

Nick (21:01)

You can totally do it. Yeah, but like, what, what, what will be hard about it?

Ellie (21:06)

I think just because she is in our lives so much and like, especially with like, wedding planning coming up, she is trying to be involved, but she just hasn't been a very positive influence. So like, me and my fiance have been like, hey, listen, we're just not taking families. No, she's not contributing anything. My parents are doing everything.

Nick (21:29)

There you go. Even better.

Claire (21:30)

Yeah.

Nick (21:32)

So again, you know, like, I just wouldn't include her. And then if she wants to ask why she's not involved, you can tell her why. Yeah. Calmly. Just be like, I, you know, you're, you're not nice to me. And anytime I've tried to recommend our relationship, you've been uninterested in doing that. But she, you got to make her ask and not in a mean way. She needs to come to you and say in a, in a very similar energy the way you came to her. And until she does that, I wouldn't give her anything to work with.

Megan (22:01)

Yeah.

Nick (22:02)

Unless, unless your fiance, like comes to you and says, hey, I just, I really, you know, like this disconnect with me and mom, it's too much. I, you know, like, follow his lead. It's his relationship, you know, like, you know, I like having relations with my mother in law, but at the end of the day, I follow my wife's lead when it comes to, and like, they have a good relationship, but I'm going to follow her lead when it comes to the type of relationship that we want to have with her. I don't like, you know, I don't go to Natalie and be like, regardless of what you and your mom might be going through and like that or not. Not that they're going through anything, but you know what I'm saying? I'm not like, well, I just, I always want to have a positive relationship with everyone. I'm you know, like this is not your job to people please or whatever and like, you know, follow his lead. But you get what I'm saying?

Ellie (22:42)

Yeah, I think I need to practice that a little bit better because I just kind of want like we have great relationships with everybody else in the.

Nick (22:49)

Family, but then, yeah, you gotta let that go. You're this, this idea in your head that you just have. You're obsessed over like I get along with everyone else. Like this is like your need to be liked by people. And the fact that your mother in law or future mother in law doesn't like you or you feel like she doesn't like you, it just bugs you. And that's an ego thing. And that's something like that. You need to let it go, you know? Okay. You need to have the confidence to say, I did my part. And if, you know, that's the part that like you're not accepting and like that's the ego part because it's not like you did nothing. It's not like you ignored it. You didn't say, well, if you didn't say this, if she's gonna treat me this way, I'm gonna treat her like that. It's not what you did. Yeah, you did everything you could. But now that you've done everything you can, you need to accept the reality of the situation and then do everything I just said. Right. You're not accepting that. You're stubbornly saying, no, people like me and I can get along with anyone and I'm not gonna have person who doesn't like me in this family be my mother in law. So I need to fix this.

Ellie (23:44)

Yeah, that's very spot on.

Nick (23:45)

Yeah. So let go of that mentality, pat yourself on the back and said, I did what I can. I need to let it go right now. I'm going to focus my energy on my partner, baby mama and the child and, and your wedding. Yeah, and. And you know, keep the peace. And if, if she wants to be involved in your guys life, she has to play by your rules, not the other way around.

Ellie (24:08)

I like that. I will definitely try with all that, especially with the ego thing. I don't think anyone's ever pointed that out before. So it's definitely. It hurts, but I mean, it's needed to be said kind of thing.

Nick (24:19)

It's normal. Listen, there's not a. Yeah, worse things to be than the person who wants to get along with people.

Ellie (24:26)

Yeah, that's true.

Nick (24:27)

Yeah. But you just need to accept. So, yeah, you're like the Good news is you, there are far other worse situations in terms of mother in laws and you, there's a lot of things that you have going for you. So you need, it's, you need to let things play out.

Megan (24:41)

Okay.

Nick (24:42)

Okay.

Ellie (24:42)

Yeah, I can definitely do that.

Nick (24:43)

All right, take care.

Ellie (24:44)

All right, thank you.

Nick (24:45)

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Claire (30:11)

Hello, my name is Claire. I am 29 years old and I'm trying to figure out how to deal with a crush on my husband's friend.

Nick (30:20)

You have a crush on your husband's friend?

Claire (30:23)

So it seems.

Nick (30:24)

Okay. All right. Just wanted to make sure. Oh, tell me about this crush.

Claire (30:28)

It's strange. I've known this person for like 10 years, a little over a decade. Never felt anything literally up until like a year ago.

Nick (30:38)

Okay.

Claire (30:39)

And the reason I say I'm not, I guess, positive of if it is a crush is because I like, I feel like it might be from like issues between me and my husband and like the intimacy because it's like it only comes up when we're not intimate for like a while and then I start having like, I guess, fantasies, sort of.

Nick (31:00)

Okay, let's start by what, what is the thing that is drawing you to this person?

Claire (31:06)

I don't know. I guess just, like, closeness, like, we're friends, almost like. Well, I don't want to say like family, because that feels weird, but, like. Like we're very good friends. And he's just always very nice and compliments me, you know, like, if we go out as a group, like, he'll say, oh, you look nice, like, things like that. I guess. I don't know.

Nick (31:28)

So, yeah, I mean, when you first, like, said, hey, I have a crush on my. My husband's friend, you know, the first thought that comes to mind is, yeah, like, maybe it's not. Especially when you said, I've known this person for 10 years. Like, maybe it's like, not a crush on him, but maybe it's like something he's giving you that you're not receiving, you know, in. In the relationship. Right. But to be clear, you haven't done anything with this person at this point physically, correct?

Claire (31:51)

Oh, no. No.

Nick (31:52)

Okay. So I guess Mike, you know, it makes sense that, like, you're feeling disconnected from your husband, especially in the physical intimacy department. Okay. That's normal for relationships. But why specifically? His friend is the one. That's the part I'm trying to figure out. Because, like, you could be fantasized. You could have a crush on a million different people out. Out there, you know? But why. Why specifically the friend that is driving you to fantasize about him when you're feeling disconnected from your husband?

Claire (32:23)

That's a good question. I guess that's kind of what I'm trying to figure out. I don't know if it's just because, like, they're very similar people.

Nick (32:31)

Okay.

Claire (32:32)

So, like, I don't know. Or if it's just that it's like the next closest, I guess, male to me.

Nick (32:38)

Okay. All right. Are you, like, physically attracted to him?

Claire (32:41)

Like, kind of, like, not. It wouldn't be like, the first. I mean, like, I knew him for a long time and I never was.

Nick (32:47)

Like, you know, so he's like an all right looking guy, you know? But, yeah, it's not like he walked in the room when you first saw him, and you're just like, oh, my God, he's just my type. Your friend's my type.

Claire (32:56)

Yeah.

Nick (32:57)

Okay. Does anyone know about this?

Claire (33:00)

Two of my most closest friends.

Nick (33:02)

What do they say?

Claire (33:04)

Well, the one said that he has riz and that's why, I guess, like, just the vibes. And then the other one was just showing, I guess, more concern for, like, my relationship with my husband.

Nick (33:18)

Tell me about Your relationship with your husband. Like, what's. I mean, you mentioned obviously there are times where you're feeling disconnected from physical intimacy. But, like, how big is this disconnect between you and your husband?

Claire (33:28)

It's strange because it's like, that's the only part where we're disconnected. Like, I mean, like, he's my literal best friend. We do everything together. But I feel like when it comes to, like, the past year or so, when it comes to having sex or even, like, the less physical intimacy, like, I don't know, even just, like, those conversations that I feel like most normal couples have, I feel like that's where it kind of falls apart and I don't know. I guess what, like, the change was.

Nick (33:58)

So, like, right now you don't even feel like you're able to talk to your husband about your sex life.

Claire (34:02)

Like, I can talk to him, but it's always, like, a short, kind of quick response, and there seems to be, like, a lot of discomfort around it.

Nick (34:10)

How do you approach that conversation?

Claire (34:12)

Well, really awkwardly for a long time. And, like, I used to tend to, like, turn it into a joke because I get uncomfortable. And then I just start, I guess, giggling and speaking very clearly, uncomfortably. But I've been learning, like, from. I have a therapist, and we've talked about that. And so I've been trying to just be more direct, like, and just say exactly what I'm feeling. But I feel like it comes out kind of like how I'm talking now. Like, it's always like, I'm very nervous. I don't know if that, like, makes him more nervous or if it distracts him.

Nick (34:48)

I. I don't. I. I don't think your nerves make him more nervous, but I think your awkwardness might make an awkward situation. Situation stay awkward, I suppose. Right. But it's also probably already awkward for me, for him. Because. And I'm guessing, like, when you ask it, are you asking, like, why aren't. Don't we have more physical intimacy? Or why don't we have more sex? Or are you. How do you approach that conversation?

Claire (35:14)

So I've. I have asked that before, but I've also asked, like, for more affirmation because I, like, that's something that's missing, too. So I've said, like. Like, do you still, like, are you still attracted to me? Do you still, like, want to do that stuff? Or is there something, like, that has changed? But I mean, like, the answer is always, like, no, I love you. You're, you know, like, all those things. I Just don't necessarily know if that's true.

Nick (35:38)

Have you said that part, last part, to him?

Claire (35:41)

I have.

Nick (35:42)

Okay, so you've basically, you've. You have communicated to him like that regardless of what his answer is, you feel like he may not be attracted as. As attracted to you as he used to be, or you feel like he is less interested in having sex with you.

Claire (35:56)

Yeah.

Nick (35:57)

And what did he say?

Claire (35:58)

It was kind of like apologizing and then just saying, like, that's not it. And then I know we've explored some other things because, I mean, he's got a very stressful job, so he's, like, anxious and all that stuff, too. So I think he's trying to get a handle on that stuff. So, like, right now, that's kind of like what we're more focused on, I guess. But it does feel like then this intimacy stuff has, you know, fallen to the side.

Nick (36:25)

Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, it. I mean, there's a time, you know, listen, like, every marriage relationship has ups and downs, and you kind of always have to play the long game. But, you know, it's like, okay, he's busy, he's got a job and whatever, he's anxious. And on the short term, I guess that maybe for time being, you know, like, maybe you go through, like, a so slow period of intimacy, but, like, sounds like this has been going on for the better part of a year or two, and it's less of a slow period and more of, like, a new normal.

Claire (36:52)

Yeah.

Nick (36:52)

So, I mean, I guess, like, crush on the friend aside, that's not, like, really the problem. Right. The problem is obviously your connection with your husband. You know, this is, like, this. I don't know, you find his Riz or whatever attractive. I don't know. I wouldn't tell anyone else that you have a crush on your husband's friend for fear of getting out. You haven't acted on it. You haven't done anything with it. I think it's just something that's maybe in your head because it sounds like you're trying to figure out answers on your own without the benefit of having a partner to figure out these answers with.

Claire (37:23)

Yeah, I. Yeah, I guess that that sounds kind of right.

Nick (37:26)

You know, And I guess that that is definitely a choice that your husband's making. And I think that's the biggest disconnect right now is making him understand that you feel this way. And while you're not. You're not blaming him, you know, you're not even accusing him of anything, you're not even asking for answers, but you want him to know how you feel and how some of his actions, intentional or not, make you feel. And then you want him to care. And then along with you, you know, figure out how you, too, can bridge whatever gaps there are so that, you know, I don't know what he feels in this relationship, but I'm sure he has feelings, too, but specifically to yours, so that you can stop feeling this way because, like, regardless of whether you have a crush on his friend or not, you constantly feeling this way for the better part of a year or year and a half is not sustainable. It's just not. So, like, that's your. That's your big problem and figuring out how to resolve that, you know, because you're not. Like. It's not like, you're like, I'm in love with my husband's best friend, and I don't know what to do. You're like, I think I have a cross because I guess I fantasize about, like, it's just popped in my head. And I don't know. I'm just like, I just. I want to feel. I want to feel some validation, some love. I want to feel like, you know, it sounds like he's not giving you attention. And again, like, I've been busy before, too. You know, it's not. I'm not justifying your thoughts and feelings or anything like that. But again, like, every relationship gets busy. Every couple feels disconnected. Every person in a relationship can get caught up with all the other things going on in their life that they kind of take their partner for granted. Everyone's done that. Right. The difference between people who are more successful in relationships than the ones that are not is that with. When presented with the problem, they care. They. They address. They. They be like, oh, well, this needs my attention, you know, and I need to make sure that this, you know, is resolved. And that's the part where your husband seems to be falling short.

Claire (39:32)

Yeah.

Nick (39:32)

Have you present. You. You said you have a therapist. Have you presented couples therapy?

Claire (39:37)

We do that.

Nick (39:37)

You do do that. What do you guys talk about in couples therapy?

Claire (39:40)

I mean, it's like, it's this every time. And I think that's also part of the problem.

Nick (39:45)

You talk about this topic every time.

Claire (39:47)

Most of the time.

Nick (39:49)

What is being said in couples therapy?

Claire (39:52)

I don't know. Just that, like, we need to, like, communicate better. And, like, that was part of, like, the, like, what I was working on with my communication anyways and that, like, we need to do more stuff Together.

Nick (40:04)

In all the therapy that you and your husband have done together, has he said some version of, I don't like that my wife feels this way, and I want us to fix it, and I need to do my part.

Claire (40:18)

I mean, definitely, like, the first part. Like, he has said he doesn't like that I feel this way, and that that sucks. But I guess the second part, not so much.

Nick (40:27)

Yeah. Cause right now it sounds like what he's saying is, I don't like my wife. My wife feels this way. That sucks. But, like, I'm busy and I got a lot of going on, and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do about it because, like, I can't change how she feels, but, like, I'm just telling her I'm still as attracted to her as I was before, and, like, I just don't know what I'm supposed to do about it.

Claire (40:46)

Yeah.

Nick (40:46)

So has your therapist pointed that out?

Claire (40:49)

Not necessarily. I mean, she's kind of gone, like, on. Not like that we're on ends or anything, but, like, there have been sometimes where she's like, hey, you know, he probably feels like you're nagging a little bit. Maybe we should stop talking about this every freaking time. And then there have been times when it's like, hey, dude, like, you have to do this, this, and this to, you know, get it together so this can last.

Nick (41:15)

And how infrequently are you guys having sex?

Claire (41:18)

Well, for a while, it was, like, once a month maybe, but now it's like, every week and a half. Ish.

Nick (41:28)

How long you guys been married?

Claire (41:29)

For two years.

Nick (41:31)

How long you been together?

Claire (41:33)

Like those 10.

Nick (41:34)

Oh, like 10.

Claire (41:35)

Yeah.

Nick (41:35)

Okay. A while.

Claire (41:37)

Yeah.

Nick (41:38)

Every week and a half's not the worst. No, man, I feel like I'm not being helpful here. Like, if you're. If your husband was on the phone, like, if we, like, if he was, like, there, like, what would he say about all this? What do you think? I mean, forget about the friend part.

Claire (41:55)

Yeah. I mean, I honestly feel like he would say he has no idea what I'm talking about and that he doesn't think there's anything wrong.

Nick (42:04)

Okay, so. Okay, let me ask you this. Like, other than at the actual act of sex, what are some things that you feel like your husband could do to make you feel better than you do now?

Claire (42:14)

I mean, those. The words of affirmation would be helpful because I think that's like. Like, I'm not getting either the physical intimacy or, like, the. Like, I haven't been Called beautiful in a long time or, like, sexy or any of those things. So I just don't feel like. I guess that's why I don't think, like, he's attracted to me because, like, I mean, he never says it.

Nick (42:37)

Yeah. And it makes sense why, like, every time his friend walks in, he's like, hey, beautiful, how you doing? And you're like, really? Me?

Claire (42:45)

Yeah.

Nick (42:46)

Do you think he thinks you're exaggerating?

Claire (42:49)

Probably, yeah.

Nick (42:50)

If I. If he were to hear you say, like, you know, he's never. He never calls me sexy anymore or he doesn't call me beautiful. I don't remember the last time I heard beautiful. Like, do you think he would be, like, that's not true? Like, if I can.

Claire (43:00)

Like, I feel like he would say that, but I don't. Like, I don't know that he would even know, like, how often he says it.

Nick (43:07)

Like, what was the last time he, like, sent you flowers or something?

Claire (43:12)

Oh, about a month ago, he, like, paid for me to get, like, a massage.

Nick (43:16)

Okay. Do you like gifts?

Claire (43:20)

Not really, to be honest.

Nick (43:22)

Okay. Yeah. So not your love language that you needed, you know?

Claire (43:26)

No, but I think it's his, like, giving one.

Nick (43:29)

Sure. I mean, that. That happens all the time in relationships. I mean, like, Natalie and I could still, like, I think every couple could be better at that. Like, we're still not great at that. Like, I think every person struggles because, like, I think we don't realize how much, like, the love language that we. We feel the most loved is the ones we like to also do love, you know, like, show love. Rather, like, acts of service being my biggest one. Like, that's how I show love, you know? So I want to show love that way, you know? But it's not how Natalie often likes to receive love, you know, it's like, it doesn't come naturally to her. So I just, you know, it's like, it's tough because you, like, that's how I show love. I think every couple could work on that. But what you just seem to, like. Like, at least what you're communicating is, like, this stubbornness from your husband to really, like, not try. And when he does try, he just, like, he does things that, like, aren't really thinking about what he. That that would make you happy.

Claire (44:21)

Yeah.

Nick (44:22)

Does he even. Like, when you are going into therapy, does he. Are there, like, short. Are there brief moments of improvement at least, or. And at this point, is he just, like, he feels like you're nagging and just kind of dismisses you I guess both.

Claire (44:39)

Like, I. I feel like I'm nagging just because it's, like I said, like, every time it's the same thing that we're talking about, and it's always, like, me starting the conversation. But, like, there's been a lot of growth, like, since we started. It's just. It's so slow. And, like, the parts that are growing are, like, the smaller parts that I guess are easier to fix, like, doing more stuff together. Like, okay, we can go for a walk, or like, I guess just easier things to solve than, like, the problems we're talking about now.

Nick (45:12)

Yeah, but I mean, so, like, quality time not also a love language of yours?

Claire (45:17)

Not necessarily.

Nick (45:18)

Yeah. Not as much as the other ones. Like, that's kind of. That's kind of the point of love language is like, you know, like, sure, I like walks with my. My husband, but, like, that's not how I feel the most loved. You know, you need words of affirmation. You need physical touch. It sounds like those are your two big ones. And he needs to recognize that while they may not be his, he needs to, like, on a regular basis, go out of his way to make sure that he is showing his wife love in the way that she receives it most. If he doesn't, then he's running the risk of her. Her not feeling your love. And then whether you look for it or not, you. You find yourself, you know, wanting that from that connection. I, you know, like, definitely don't even bring up the front. You know, I don't know how productive, you know, it would come in the form of a threat to just be like, I, you know, I am getting frustrated, keep talking about it, but, like, it. Nothing changes.

Claire (46:11)

Yeah, well, and I've said that.

Nick (46:12)

And have you had the love language conversation?

Claire (46:15)

Yeah, but it was kind of just like, this is what I am. This is what I am. And then I guess that was it. So it wasn't really like, well, what can I do to, you know, help?

Nick (46:26)

And that's. I mean, that's the kind of your. Your guys's biggest problem. Right? Like, I. When it comes to gifts, I. I hate gifts. I don't like, I hate. It's an exaggeration. But I don't feel much love receiving gifts and giving gifts. It's kind of like, I guess. I don't know. But my wife really does. She loves giving gifts. She only loves receiving gifts. You know, it really does make her. It's a love language of hers. You know, I can't just be like, no, you know, I can't. I. I mean, I could, but again, I would get the same result that you're getting. Right. You know, that you're feeling right now. And that's the part where your husband, he's taking the time to go to therapy, he's spending the money, he's willing to listen to you. Why is he so unwilling to just try and, you know, what's the thing is, here's maybe some advice. I don't know. I'm just spitballing here because I'm. I'm grasping at straws, trying to be helpful here because, like, you're doing a lot of the things and I. I don't have them here, so I don't really. I can only guess. But listen, it's always a lot of pressure, especially for men when they feel like their partner is unsatisfied with the sex life. Right. And I don't doubt that your husband is stressed at work, has a lot going on, you know, and. And stress for all people, but especially men, like really crushes a sex drive. I can relate to that. And it's a real thing. And it has nothing to do with what he thinks about you or how attracted he is, is or isn't with you. But to your point, if I were you, I would focus less on the physical touch aspect, or at least the sex part, and focus more on the words of affirmation and. And focus your conversations around physical touch. Not about sex, but like, I mean, when you're on a walk, you guys holding hands, you are. Okay. What does that do for you sometimes? Sometimes?

Claire (48:18)

Well, I mean, I love that.

Nick (48:20)

Are you holding his hand or is he grabbing your hand?

Claire (48:23)

I would. I usually grab it.

Nick (48:24)

Okay, so you know, that's what you need from him, right? You need him to reach out to your hand, pull you in, put his arm around your shoulder, offer a massage, cuddle with you. You know, like, just say, come here, babe, and wrap his arms around you and just say how beautiful you are. This is basic, easy. And listen, as a busy guy who is always. I have a lot of anxiety of a lot going on. I'm like, hey, I need. You know, I have to remind my. It's like, I know my wife's beautiful. I think my wife's beautiful. But like, yeah, when you're in a relationship for a long time, you've been in a relationship with this guy for 10 years, you take it for granted. You. You just. It feels almost like I have to say it again because I say it all the time. You know, and it's just like. But yeah, you do. You do have to say it all the time. You do have to go out of your way to constantly say it and remind it. And he. And that's the part he is stubbornly not wanting to accept. But if I were, you know, I wonder if anything, the convert. You're focusing too much on sex. And that is making him very defensive. I don't know. Like, I. Maybe I've asked all the other stuff, like, have you. The conversations about, like, holding your hand and reaching out and the call. Like. Like, have you focused on that? Or is it a lot of we're just not having sex enough?

Claire (49:39)

It's. It's a lot of the sex. Yeah.

Nick (49:42)

So try that and maybe it'll feel like a new conversation. And maybe the next time you guys go to couples therapy, it's just like, I, you know, I was thinking about this, and I don't want to, like, you know, I know that, like, obviously we come here and it feels like we're having the same conversation. And, like, no one gets more frustrated about that than I do. I know that's hard to believe because I. I feel like my husband going, oh, here we go again. And even my therapist is like, oh, here, here we go again. But, like, it's not like I think I'm focusing too much on the sex aspect of this. I'm like, again, like, that. I'm. Not that I'm any less interested in that, but, like, I think you should focus your conversation back to love languages and just talk about how, like, what you need to feel loved, you know, And I hope you have a therapist that understands that and, you know, because, like, love language is not some. Like, it's not some bullshit thing that you find in, like, Glamour magazine, you know, that's like, what's your love language? You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's a. It's a real thing that really articulates how us humans show and receive love. It really seems to be those, I think, five things, and we all seem to fall. Fall into these buckets. And the people who understand love language is really, like, all, like, yeah, they know I'm physical. Touch. Words of affirmation. That's me. And we. We' in some areas and weaker in others. And we are all dating people with different ones. You know, it's not that complicated. Super easy to understand. But, like, he. He needs to understand it. And I really think maybe it's the sex part because it's just it's, it's very easy for men to shut down when they feel like they're being questioned about their sexual capabilities in bed, you know. And how old your, how old's your husband?

Claire (51:18)

30.

Nick (51:19)

30. Okay, not that old. But even 30 year old men, you know, it's like they're not 22 anymore. You know, they're not just like walking around with raging hard ons, like, just like, you know, they're just more like, yeah, I guess just like, you know, I think it's always been the case for women, like, sex can be work. It's like, you know, I gotta clean up and get around and all. It's the whole production around it. You know, as men get older, they, they, they relate to that a little bit better than they did before when they were just horny freaks. But they still are very, you know, very sensitive about their, their sexual prowess being questioned. And I, I think maybe you're just getting a very defensive partner and he is feeling like not enough every time you question how much he has sex with you or doesn't have sex with you. So I would try to focus that conversation more on love, languages more on physical touch, more on words of affirmation. Because like, especially the words of affirmation, it's like, bro, just say it. You know, just say it. Yeah. You know, is it that hard? You know, and if, like, if it is that hard, then you really must not think it. Right? Like, and I'm assuming in the past, you know, like you're dressed casually like I am today, but I'm sure there's times where you dress up and go out and you're expecting and hoping for a compliment from your husband. You put a little effort, you know, you would love to love for him to see that. Right? And I think that's okay. Have you pointed that out?

Claire (52:48)

I have.

Nick (52:49)

What does he say to that?

Claire (52:51)

It's just like the, Well, I do think it like after I say that, I'm like, but you don't say it.

Nick (52:57)

He's not giving anything to work with. He just can't keep saying, well, I, I'm sorry. And I just, it doesn't come naturally to me. It's like, no shit, we know, we know. We. That's kind of the point, you know, like, it makes it a little bit more meaningful knowing that it's not a strength of his and know that he's still willing to do it because then you know that he's willing to do it for you, but he's not willing to do it for you. You. The friend stuff, I really think is just a product of you really feeling like you're at a loss. You're really feeling this disconnect with your husband in these areas, and he is giving you the very thing that you've Beg. You're literally begging your husband to give you, you know, So I don't think you really have a crush on this guy. I think you just. I mean, I don't know. You tell me, but, like, I just think you really like the way he shows you the affection he does because it's exactly what you've been looking for from your husband. All the more reason why I think it's less about the sex and more about all this other stuff that is a lot easier and simple and does, you know, and has nothing to do with anxiety or how busy he is or things like that. Your. Your husband can be at work, he can be busy, and he can take two seconds out of his day and text his wife and been, like, thinking about you. I'm so lucky to have you. You're so beautiful. Can't wait to come home and give you a hug. And then when he comes home, takes six more seconds to say, I'm gonna hug my wife and really embrace her and say, it's great to see you, beautiful, like, not hard, you know? And I'm not saying I walk home and do that every day, but, like, I. You know, it's like. Especially if I get, like, a reminder from my wife, if she says, hey, you know, like, feeling this a little bit, it's like, yeah. You know, because we all slack off from time to time as we all get caught up in our bullshit and in our world. Like, we're all per. You know, like, it's like no one's all walking around like some. Like, yeah, I'm just the best partner ever. I'm Casanova. I never for stuff. But you're just begging here, and he's. He's giving you nothing.

Claire (54:47)

Yeah.

Nick (54:49)

Is this. Do I at least sound like I'm. I understand what you're going through?

Claire (54:52)

Yeah. And I mean, like, that. That does make sense, because I feel like. Like, I don't. I guess I didn't want to say, like, crush, but, I mean, it does feel like there's a piece that, like, he's feeling almost that, like, whenever I see him. So, yeah, I don't. I guess I don't think anymore about the crush.

Nick (55:10)

I mean, listen, it makes sense if. If you're literally getting dolled up, right? You get you know, you're going out with a group of get dressed up. You're going to get to the point where you're like, you're literally going to realize you're dressing up for this guy. Not because you want to, because you're like, this is the only guy in this group who actually is paying attention to the effort I made today. And I, like, I honestly wonder if my husband even noticed what, like, colored dress I'm wearing.

Claire (55:32)

Yeah.

Nick (55:33)

So, you know, like. Yeah. And like, obviously you can't, like, say that to your husband. It's like, hey, by the way, you know? But, yeah, I mean, there's an. There's a way for your. Your couples therapist to help. Help him understand what you're going through. I would be frustrated. I would. Sharing your frustration. And I wish. I wish your husband was here because I could be like, do you understand what she's saying?

Claire (55:55)

Yeah.

Nick (55:56)

Because the sex part, that's gets, again, it gets complicated. It's like, sensitive. And he's gonna be like, well, we have sex every week and a half. And like, honestly, if everything else was great, like, a week and a half wouldn't be, like, a crime, you know, I'm not saying I would, like, nominate you guys for the. The best sex life of any couple, but I'm just saying, like, like, you could do far worse than every week and a half. But it's the other stuff that you're not getting rarely, if ever, and you are getting it from someone else, and it's fucking up your brain and it's messing with your emotions, and that sucks. And, yeah, everyone has a breaking point. So I. I don't think you should drop it. I think it's more about retrying to frame how you approach it. And I think trying to get away from the sex part and focus on words of affirmation and physical touch in general. And he needs to understand that. He needs to reach out and make the initiative and put in the effort and make his wife feel seen by his husband in ways that he is simply not. And it's just not good enough right now. And he needs to accept that.

Claire (57:05)

Yeah.

Nick (57:06)

What are you thinking right now?

Claire (57:07)

There's just a lot. And everything you're saying, it makes a lot, lot of sense, like, to focus on not the sex parts. I guess I just. I don't know why I was so focused on that. I guess I thought that was the easier part to handle, but I haven't even tried to have those conversations really yet, because I've been so focused On.

Nick (57:29)

Okay, well, that's. At least there's some. Okay, that's. I feel a little bit better about that because now at least we have something to work with, you know?

Claire (57:35)

Yeah.

Nick (57:36)

Men are very sensitive when it comes to sexual. Very incredibly. I think, you know, part of it is, I think, you know, society in general, like, you know, oversimplifies, like, sex for men. And I think when we're really young and we're like, 18, 19 years old, a lot of those stereotypes are incredibly true in terms of, like, just horny guys who just, like, kind of want to have sex with anything. And as we get older and life happens and we're stressed and, you know. Yeah. Like, I mean, men are more visually stimulated. I'm not saying you should do this because I think your. Your husband has a lot of work to do before you deserve something like this. But, like, like, in the act of sex, visually stimulating him goes a long way. Right. You know, I think that. I think when it comes to couples, I think a lot of women, like, will fantasize about their husband, like, coming home from work and just, like, throwing him up against the wall and making the initiative and just, like, grabbing them and just like. And I think a lot of men are, like, maybe having a similar fantasy, but their wife's, like, wearing a sexy lingerie, and then she's been sending him nudes all day, and he's. He's coming home to this, like, naked woman laying, you know, only wearing his tie in a bed or some, you know, like that. You know what I'm saying? And like, the disconnect is like, you know, we both have these very specific things, and, you know what I'm saying? And. And we're kind of always waiting on the other person to. To do it, you know? And I think, honestly, when it comes to, like, the physical act of sex, that's where I think, like, when it comes to couples who've been together for a long time, sometimes you just need to sit down and kind of have an openness on a conversation about the other person. Likes, you know, just like, I. To be honest. Yeah. Like, I like this. You know, when you meet early on, you know, it's. I think it's easier to be kind of wild freaks or whatever. You're just like. You're all horned up and you're just like. It's always. It's always about, like, as soon as you see each other, you. You hook up and, you know, like, sex is just so easy early on, or the physical act and then you know, you get used to each other. And so, like, yeah, like, it requires two people differently and at different times for different reasons to, like, make sure that that part happens, and then it's still fun. And that does require both of you. But the other stuff. Yeah, I think. I think the other stuff, you can be more like. Like, this is bare minimum shit, and this is what I really need. And honestly, this would go a long way. You don't have to bring up. Do you think I have a crush on his friend? Maybe in therapy, I would say, like, listen, there are times where I get ready and I get dressed up and I. All I want is a compliment. All I want is my. My husband to look at me and. And. And tell me I look beautiful and how nice I look, and it feels like it never happens. And then I sometimes get it from his friend or other people. And, like, that's the new. That's my new norm, and I want it from my husband, you know? And I want to feel seen by my husband. Is it that hard for him to send me. To send me a text the other day? You know? Like, I want to hear it. I need to hear it. And I want him to, like, hold my hand. I'm always holding his hand. I want him to want to cuddle with me. Me. I want him to grab me. I want him to, like, offer me, you know, I want him to touch me more, you know? And I'm not talking about sex. I'm just talking about that, you know? And I think you can be a little bit more demanding and a little more direct about that stuff because sex is a little nuanced. Yeah. I mean, I'm guessing he just shuts down when you bring up the sex part.

Claire (60:54)

Yeah, every time.

Nick (60:56)

Yeah. That's probably why. Because he's a little defensive. He doesn't know what else he can do. He's like, I'm having sex with my wife. I don't know. Like, he probably feels like you're. The way you're talking about him, that he's, like, almost a sex object. He's like, I have to go to work, and then I have to come home and have sex with my wife. The good news is you're not alone. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is, I think, very common, and I really. It's just. Maybe you guys need a new couples therapist. I don't know. I'm just. I think the fact that you are going and you've been going so much and you've been talking about this One topic with no progress. Something needs to change. And if you're going and paying money for someone to guys help you through this and getting nowhere, maybe it's just worth trying someone else. But I do think you can maybe have this conversation with your husband without a therapist and maybe to say, I'm sorry if I've made most of these conversations about sex. Maybe I'm not communicating myself effectively, but it really is just like, I just don't feel your love. Because, like, a lot of times you seem to either show it in ways that, like, I, you know, again, we have different love languages. Like, it's not your fault. It's not my fault, but, like, I want to feel more complimented by you, and I want to be held by you, and I want you to just, like, show more affection in the way that I need that affection. And let's just. You can forget for I, you know, and I'm not talking about sex. And I'm sorry for making this all about sex. Maybe there will be some progress there.

Claire (62:14)

Yeah, I can definitely try that.

Nick (62:17)

All right. Was this at all helpful? I don't know.

Claire (62:20)

It really was. And I feel like I just needed, like, a different perspective other than my two friends.

Nick (62:27)

No. And your couple's therapist and.

Claire (62:30)

Yes. And the. The therapist.

Nick (62:33)

Yeah. You know, I don't know. How long has your therapist been a therapist?

Claire (62:37)

How long have they been a therapist?

Nick (62:38)

Yeah, like, how old your therapist?

Claire (62:41)

She's older. I mean, like 50s, six.

Nick (62:44)

Okay, so she's not, you know, I don't know, because, like, life experience is helpful. You know, in the business of advice, it's not the end all, be all, but it is. It is helpful. Yeah. Maybe it's just not resident, you know, Maybe it's just a. A bad match. I don't know. But you guys should be making a little more progress than you are in this department because I don't think this is an insolvable problem. It does seem like there's still a lot of love there between you and your husband. This isn't like a completely broken relationship. The fact that you are. You guys are going consistently and still going to couples therapy, and you're even still able to have this conversation is a. Is a great thing. He still cares. You know what I'm saying there? He doesn't. He still cares, but it's just, you're. You're. I don't know. You haven't gotten through to him. So try that less about the sex.

Claire (63:28)

Yeah, okay. I can do that.

Nick (63:30)

Yeah. Because again, think about it. Think about again how this conversation started about this. Like, do I have a crush on my friend, my husband's friend? Well, you haven't had sex with the friend. But what he is giving you, you know, we've identified the things he's giving you that make you feel that love, that make you feel that affection, you know, and that is how you receive love. And this, this guy is doing truly the bare minimum because he doesn't even realize he's doing it. He's just like, being nice and showing his riz and, and, and you're starving for it so much that you're just like, oh, wow, maybe I love him, you know, like that. But like, to put that in perspective, like, that's how bad it's gotten. But the good news is it's not broken. Your relationship isn't lost. You just have to get through to him about this disconnect without making it about sex, you know? You know, you want to feel sexy, you want to feel love, you want to feel beautiful. You're too young. You have too much going for you for you to feel like it's time to get old, ugly and die. Right?

Claire (64:29)

Yeah.

Nick (64:30)

So, so I, I, I, I hope that he's willing to understand that.

Claire (64:34)

I hope so too.

Nick (64:35)

All right, keep me posted. I would love, I'd love an update, but yeah, I'm rooting for you guys.

Claire (64:41)

Yeah. All right, well, thank you so much.

Nick (64:43)

All right, take care.

Claire (64:44)

Thank you.

Nick (64:45)

All right, bye Bye.

Claire (64:45)

Bye bye.

Nick (64:47)

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Nick (69:24)

How's it going?

Megan (69:25)

Good. My name is Megan, I'm 30 years old and I need some help navigating dating someone who just got out of a relationship.

Nick (69:36)

Okay, what kind of relationship did they get out of?

Megan (69:40)

It was an on and off again two and a half year relationship. They did live together.

Nick (69:45)

Okay, but they were and they were together. Wasn't like an on like a situationship where they lived together or they Were.

Megan (69:52)

Together at the time when all this.

Nick (69:54)

Yes. How recently they end that relationship?

Megan (69:58)

Middle of March.

Nick (70:00)

Okay. And when did you meet them?

Megan (70:03)

I've known this person for almost 15 years.

Nick (70:07)

Okay.

Megan (70:08)

Our brothers have been best friends for a long time.

Nick (70:12)

Okay.

Megan (70:12)

So we've never hung out or really even talked. We've just been friends on social media. Family friends.

Nick (70:18)

Okay. When did things. When did your dynamic change?

Megan (70:22)

It started back in October when they.

Nick (70:25)

Were in this relationship.

Megan (70:27)

They were together at the time, and I was job searching. I had applied to a company, and that night that I applied to the company, he had posted something on Instagram, and he was wearing a shirt that had the company's logo on it. So I reached out to him and I asked. I was like, hey, do you work here? And he goes, yeah, why? And I said, well, I just applied there today. Like, you should go tell HR how cool I am. And so he started off with just that. He went to go talk to hr, hyped me up a lot, ended up reaching back out, gave me the hiring manager's email. So I reached out to the hiring manager. He followed up with me a few weeks later asking if I had heard anything. And that was kind of it in the very beginning. And then fast forward about a month later, I ended up getting a job at a different company. And then he reached out to me again. So him and I both moved away from our hometowns, and we currently live in the same city. So when he reached out again, he asked. He's like, hey, I'm gonna make a trip home to go snowboarding with my brother. Do you want to come with and, like, invite your brother? We can all hang out. So I didn't think anything of it at that point, but I passed on the trip because I had just started this new job, and I was getting ready to move, like, the next weekend, and I just wanted to pack and get ready for my move. And then he offered to help me move, and I'm not going to say no to that. So a few weeks go by, he helped me move, and that was the first time we've ever met in person. He talked about his girlfriend. It was very much like a friendship at that point. No lines were crossed at all. He was like, I'm helping out my. My brother's friend's little sister kind of thing. And then it started to change, at least for me. A few weeks after that, he reached out and he's like, hey, I'm gonna go up north to go on a snowboard trip. Do you want to Come. And I was like, yeah, sure. Like, who's all going? He's like, oh, just me.

Nick (72:34)

He had a girlfriend at the time and her job.

Megan (72:37)

I found this out on the trip, but she travels a lot for work. She's gone, like, 75% of the time.

Nick (72:44)

Okay, so you said yes to this trip?

Megan (72:46)

I did.

Nick (72:47)

Okay. And when you said yes, were you thinking, what the fuck's going on?

Megan (72:51)

Kind of, yeah. I was like, this is a little weird. I even asked him on the drive up there. I was like, does she know that? He's like, yeah. Like, we have, like, a really open. Like, she's gone a lot. Like, we have a lot of friends. We do.

Nick (73:03)

She.

Megan (73:04)

She likes to go out dancing. That's kind of her thing. And she's out until really late. Like, we don't. It's like, no big deal.

Nick (73:11)

Okay.

Megan (73:12)

I was like, we. We go on this snowboard trip, spend the whole day together. We're stuck in the car. It's like three hours up there. Went snowboarding. And on the way back is when we started having, like, more personal, deep conversations and, like, really got to know each other. Kind of opened up about his relationship, about his mom had passed away. So we talked about that. Talked about, like, some of my childhood stuff.

Nick (73:39)

Well, I'm specific. I'm curious more specifically what he said about his relationship.

Megan (73:42)

He had just mentioned that they had recently gotten back together after breaking up, moved back in together, and he had a hard time with her job. That was the reason they had broken up in the first place. He said that he just wanted a girlfriend that was going to be around more, and she had promised she was going to be done with this and find something more permanent. And then quickly after, signed another contract, didn't tell him about it until the week before she left, and then leaves again for three months.

Nick (74:20)

All right. All right. So you guys had deep converse? Did anything other than having a deep conversation on the way back Back. Nothing else happened?

Megan (74:27)

Absolutely. Like, nothing. Like, it was, like, awkward side hug, saying goodbye, like, that's it.

Nick (74:33)

And then what was your next meaningful interaction?

Megan (74:36)

So I just bought my own place, and when he helped me move in, he was like, let me know if, like, you need help with anything. Like, I'm out here on my own.

Nick (74:42)

Sure.

Megan (74:43)

And my water heater started acting up. So I reached out to him, and I was like, hey, like, my water is, like, super cold. I don't know. Like, do I just need to replace it? He's like, I'll swing by.

Ellie (74:54)

He came over.

Megan (74:54)

It was Here for maybe, like, 15 minutes. And we were talking as he was fixing it, and he's like, oh, yeah, like, my girlfriend's coming back this weekend. And at that point, I was mad at myself because it hurt my feelings a little bit. And that's when I was like, oh, crap. Like, I think I have a crush on this guy. Not be hanging out with him at that point. I told myself I was just gonna kind of hit him with a slow fade and slowly stop talking to him. If he asked me to hang out, just tell him I was busy. I just didn't think it was appropriate. And then she came home that weekend, and they broke up. And then he reached out to me saying that they broke up was, like, venting to me about it. And then pretty much after that, we started talking almost every day. And now we hang out all the time. And, yeah, it's, like, quickly kind of turned into not a. We're not in a relationship, but we're doing. We're like, like, playing house.

Nick (75:48)

Have you hooked up? Yeah. How quickly did you guys hook up?

Megan (75:52)

The third time after. Like, a week and a half after.

Nick (75:57)

Okay. Was that the first time you got, like, up into that point? Like, was it. You guys were just hang. You know, like, when did it go from? You were the girl who was friends with, like, you know, whatever the connection was, his little brother's friends, his little sister or something. Like, when did you. You, like, stop being just the girl he knew from back home that also lived in the same city that he just, like, struck up a casual friendship with to you feeling like, oh, like, this guy is also into me.

Megan (76:27)

So we're both very into fitness, and we started working out together, and he would just, like, make little comments here and there about, like, the way I look. And he was never flirty or never said had stuff like that before. We went out to dinner, and I'm big. Like, I'm a big girl. I've been single for a long time, like, hyper independent, and he wouldn't let me pay for anything. And then we. I had, like, a flat tire, and he came over, like, I go to work really early, so he came over, like, 4am drove me to work, got my tires fixed, replaced all four of my tires again, wouldn't let me pay for it. So just doing, like, little gestures like that that you don't just, like, do for your friends.

Nick (77:15)

Okay. And then after you guys hooked up, what did you guys say to each other?

Megan (77:19)

He. I mean, he's pretty good at communicating. He's. He's like, I like you, but I realized the situation.

Nick (77:28)

So what's the situation?

Megan (77:29)

He had just gotten out of a relationship, and it would probably not be. I understand that it might be a little, I don't know, like, dumb, I guess, to rush into something, but I also don't want to put this, like, timeline in my head. I just want things to kind of happen organically.

Nick (77:47)

Fair. So basically, you've brought me up to speed in terms of, like, kind of where we're at today is this is how it all started. He had this girlfriend, recently got out of a breakup. You guys were friends, he broke up with his girlfriend. You hung out, you worked out, then you hooked up, and then you kind of essentially been playing house, talking every day, kind of acting like boyfriend and girlfriend, but have never really had that many meaningful conversations about expectations where this is going. And your approach has been like, well, I don't want to push a thing because he literally, like, I watched him get out of this relationship. It wasn't like I even met him six weeks later. He was. Literally had a girlfriend when I met him, and then I was like the first person he talked to when he got out of it. And I don't want to force the issue. So is that. Am I up to speed?

Megan (78:30)

Yeah, that's correct. And we've about talked. Talked a little bit about it. He was like, everything feels really natural with you. I like where things are at. He did make a comment that was very surprising this weekend. He's like, I'm quickly falling in love with you, and that's not fair.

Nick (78:49)

And I was kind of like, not fair to who?

Megan (78:53)

He's like, I don't. I know. He didn't say who.

Nick (78:55)

How old is he?

Megan (78:56)

You're making me. You too quickly. It's not fair. He's my age.

Nick (78:59)

She's 30. Okay. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot of, like, very subtle red flags going on here in terms of, like, this is like, setting you're. You're really setting yourself up for, like, a. A situationship that's ultimately going to end with you bum the out. I could be wrong, but the way you. You're going about this, you're. You're giving him all these potential excuses and outs to, like, delay committing to you or, or, you know, hurting your feelings or whatever. And not that you're like, he's doing anything wrong, you know, because, yeah, I empathize with, like, that very confusing time of getting out of a relationship. But my best advice I can give you is to take charge of your dating life. I promise you, if this guy likes you in a meaningful way that is worth you pursuing, then you're not going to be push him away. You know what I'm saying? Certainly you're not going to push him away by communicating what you want in a confident way, setting and communicating your expectations and boundaries and enforcing those boundaries. When he doesn't meet those needs. He. You're not going to turn him off. And the best thing you can do is to. Again, I always say calmly, because that's like, the most attractive thing that. You know, people are so used to people getting emotional during emotional conversations and being sensitive during sensitive conversations that when you can remain calm, having a difficult conversation, it just instantly looks attractive to people because you know how to regulate yourself in ways that most people don't. So, like, that's this number one. But, yeah, I think you really need to think about all right. At this point. All right. Up until this day, you've kind of given him generally a pass on, really, like, not that he's done anything wrong, but it's just more like you've really allowed him to, like, dictate the terms of this relationship. You know, the story you just told, it's been very much. Well, you know, he's had a girlfriend, and, like, so what am I supposed to do? He reached out to you, invited you on this trip, and, like, yeah, you said yes. And then, you know, but, like, you need to start dictating terms, too.

Claire (81:12)

You.

Nick (81:12)

Right. This needs to be a mutual decision by the both of you. And you are in a position now to set some expectations and some boundaries. I'm not saying next time you see him, be like, all right, buddy, new sheriff in town. I got some things I want to. You know, I'm not saying it's that, but, like, catch yourself from avoiding having conversations and catch yourself from talking yourself out of communicating to you something that's bothering you or something you want to say or getting clarity on a topic because you're in a position right now to just talk yourself out of all that, because it's like, I don't want to push them away, and it's just gotta have a relationship. And, like, I don't know if it's my place right now, and I don't want to be like, the annoying, pushy girlfriend and blah, blah, blah. That's all. You know, just get rid of all that in your head. That's honestly my best advice to you. You. And if you feel like when he says things like, oh, it's. I would say things like, don't say that to me unless you mean it. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I think, like, I think people sometimes say, I think guys are. Are Men are more bigger offenders in this topic of just kind of like, throwing out words to see how they feel, you know, see if they stick. Just play around with it. So crazy. I think I'm falling in love with you. You know, he kind of, like, I'm sure he felt that, but he just kind of said it. And he kind of wants to see how you react. And then like, a month. If. Let's say a month goes by and all of a sudden, like, his, you know, I don't know, let's say she comes back in his life. I don't know. Something goes on in his life. His feelings change. You're gonna be like, you said you loved me. And he's gonna be like, I just, like, said I thought I was falling in love with you. Haven't you. Haven't you ever seen the Bachelor? You know, like, you're the third runner up. To simplify, you have to take charge of this dating situation. And the thing. You just have to remind yourself that I just wish if, like, every woman listening to this call, call, or just who have ever listens, call, because I say it all the time. It's just like, men are not going to be turned off by you knowing what you want and letting a guy know and showing a guy, more importantly, you know, what you're not going to put up with. And it doesn't have to be, like, aggressive, and it doesn't have to be like, a fight. It should just be a very calm, like, saying no once in a while to, like, playing house or like. And this has been how long you like this. This new. This new normal for you guys? How long has it been going on for? Like, when did you guys hook up?

Megan (83:31)

A month.

Nick (83:32)

A month. All right, so a month is plenty of time to be like, all right, you know, we've been doing this for a month, but, like, I'm not gonna continue to do this any longer without any clarity, and you might not be ready to give me clarity. So I'm gonna bring clarity to the situation by letting you know what I want and what I'm okay with right now. You're just. Again, you're following his lead, and I think you need to stop following his lead.

Megan (83:58)

Yeah, we're hanging out tomorrow, so this is perfect timing. And I think just like with previous relationships, I don't want to have the whole, like, what are we talk. That's not the point of this. I just, again, like, boundaries and expectations. I just want to figure out, like, what's going on and where his head's at, essentially. But I think with previous relationships, I just struggle with, like, I don't want to sound crazy. Is it too. Or I'm like, just self sabotaging here? Like, is it too early?

Nick (84:35)

Too early for what?

Megan (84:36)

I just don't.

Nick (84:37)

So you know what, to just have those. Sure. But, like, when you ask yourself those questions, be specific. You know, imagine you're talking to me, right? And I'm like, you know, because when you're like, is it too. Too early for what? You know, I don't know. Is it too early to get married? Yes. Is it too early for. To ask him to move in with you? You. Yes. Is it too early for you guys to say, I'm deeply in love with you? Probably. You know, it might even be too early for you guys to say, let's be boyfriend and girlfriend. But is it too early to, like, communicate how things are going and, like, where you. How you guys feel about each other today and. And what you're. No, probably not. You know, so you know what I'm saying? So, like, when you're like, is it too early and I don't want to be crazy? Like, I don't know. That really depends on the specific. The specificity of what? That, what you're asking, what you know, your internal monologue. That's like, was it too early? Like, it's definitely not too early for you to get clarity. That's for sure. You know, especially for a man. You're a man you're having sex with.

Megan (85:31)

And you're right. Like, if he does really care and he likes me, it's not gonna freak him out. He's not gonna run away.

Nick (85:38)

Yeah. Now he might. He's. He. He might be a little confused. And that confusion might just be. He's told himself that he shouldn't jump into another relationship so soon. Soon. And now he's like, I like this girl.

Megan (85:52)

But if that's the case, that, like, I. If he just says, well, I'm not ready yet, like, I don't want to keep doing this, then.

Nick (86:00)

Yeah. And now you say that. I mean, like. And you're like, I totally get it. That's totally cool. And you can, you can say it almost in a joking way, but you're, you know, you can be like, well, I just don't think it's all that confusing to figure out whether you like me or not, you know, I don't know, maybe that's not the way to say it. I don't know, you know, without trying to come up with something clever to say. But it's like, you're right, you know, maybe. Maybe you're not. But like, if you're not, then, you know, quite honestly, like, well, hey, listen, I'm assuming you liked having sex with them and you can kind of joke, but, like, listen, you're a great lay, but, like, now we're getting past the point of just being great lays and like, if you are not what you. When he says he's not ready, right? He's saying, I'm not ready for something emotional. Fair enough. And you can say like, great, but like, yeah, it's just more like, well, then you're not ready to continue to having sex with me because you are gonna. You're just. You're gonna fall in love with me. And if you're not ready, then we need to stop having sex. And honestly, we need to stop playing house. And again, you just need to be very, you know, like, literally look in the mirror and be like, I'm. I'm a badass bitch and I'm awesome. And like, you know, like, just. You just gotta be confident. You know, like, it's really. Everyone loves confidence. Men love confident women. I know that's sometimes hard to believe because, like, it sometimes feel. You know, there's obviously a lot of women out there who feel like, you know, very successful women, very accomplished women, women who are very professionally driven, make a lot of money, and they feel like they're constantly. You know, I think that's kind of a different conversation of about maybe just like just conversations about masculinity and societal norms. And there's. That's. That's a deeper conversation. But in general, I think men very much still like confident women. Maybe on their terms, but they still want that confidence. They want a. Everyone wants someone who knows their values. You. Everyone wants someone who doesn't let other people waste their time. Everyone wants someone that knows they're a prize, that they're a catch. That's what we all want. We want someone that we think everyone else wants, and we got them. So be that person. Don't be the person who's like, oh, wow, he likes me, and I'm just gonna do whatever he does and says and sit around at his convenience and wait around for him to be right ready, you know, and so that's just the energy you want to bring to that conversation without, without getting too heavy and you can keep it light and joke and you can kind of say as much. It's just like, I'm just not the type of person who just waits around for people to be ready and figuring out that they like me. And I totally get you out of a relationship. So maybe you just need to unpack that and get some therapy. What I'm certain of is that I'm not down to do this while you figure out and. And try to get ready. Like, I'm a phone call away. And if you need a break, we can take a break. It's cool. But like, I'm definitely not sidelining my. I'm not sidelining this, you know, and you don't keep getting it in this because you're, you're. You're going to fall in love with me and you're not ready.

Megan (88:49)

Yeah, that's a great way to put it.

Nick (88:51)

You know, something like that. And then just be busy when he calls and he's, you know, reaching out and, you know, you're going to have to decide what he can say that's going to make you feel comfortable to continue some version of what you're doing, you know, and maybe it's like, listen, like, I'm just gonna keep it real with you. I. I like you. I hope you know that. I don't think that's some mystery. You again. You love me. So I would just give him a. About that in a very playful way. Yeah, but you can say, like, I do. Like, I like you. I do. And I. And I don't really give a. That you got out over like, you know, that's what I'm saying. Just don't let him use it as an excuse. Like, I like, fine. He got. He broke up with someone a month ago. I don't. He's not incapable of falling in love with. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's been a lot of people who have been like, gone from one vine to another mother in and out of relationships. Like, it's not. He's not. If he can have sex with you, if he can do exact. All the thing he's been doing, you know, if his relationship was so wonderful that he need all this time to heal. Like, you know, I'm not saying he was doing anything when he asked you to go on this trip, but he wasn't doing nothing. You know what I'm saying? Like, he wasn't doing nothing. You know what I'm Saying so, like, he can't. Can't possibly need all this time to be ready.

Megan (89:56)

Yeah, I feel like it was on the outs, and then we started kind of hanging out, and he was like, oh, okay. Like, I think it made it a little.

Nick (90:06)

I mean, the truth is. You know what? You know what I would say 98 of people mean when they say, I don't know if I'm ready yet when they're saying that to a person they're.

Megan (90:14)

Dating, they say, it's not with you.

Nick (90:17)

Yeah, they just. They don't know. They. It's like going to the shoe store, liking a pair of shoes and being like, I don't know if I'm ready to buy this, because honestly, this is the first store I've been to and I was planning on shopping all day. So I'm gonna put this on hold for a second, and if I don't find anything better, I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna buy these. So, I mean, that's what he means when he says he's not ready. And you don't. You don't need him to admit to that. But that's. You just need to be like, listen. I mean, when you say you're not ready, like, there's if. And you say, like, listen, if you need to go around and date other women, I totally get it. You don't get this while you do that.

Megan (90:46)

And, like, you're right. I don't want or don't think this conversation should end with her boyfriend, girlfriend. But then, like, what is a good answer? I see a future.

Nick (90:58)

I like, I mean, some version of. I really like you too. I actually meant when I said when I kind of casually threw out the L word. I do. I care about you. I love being around you. Yeah. I'm. To be honest, like, I'm a little nervous about jumping into a relationship right after I got out of my last relationship. But I like you. So, like, you know, maybe we don't call each other boyfriend and girlfriend, but I don't want to see other people. We're having sex and like, I. I only want to hang out with you, and let's just see where this goes and let's just like, keep checking in and talking like two adults and like, hopefully it progresses. That it'd be some version of that. It's, you know, it's not. It's not that complicated and it's not that heavy, and we try to over complicate things and. Because, like, again, at the end of the day and it's total. It's. Again, no judgment about this guy. He doesn't know, you know, he thinks you're hot, he thinks you're good in bed, he thinks you're cool, he likes your company, but he doesn't know you're his wife. And what he's afraid of, like everyone else is afraid of. And I was afraid of. It's just like, do I jump into a relationship with this person and, like, what happens if, you know, I just met her? I just like, is that crazy of me to like. And so you're just like, yeah. And maybe if you're just like, listen, maybe you should see other people. And if you want to deal other people. But I just like, I don't want to keep having sex. So, like, maybe you could be this, you know, go date other people. Like, dare them to, like, there's a little bit of game playing and there's a little bit of a dance, like Nelly. And I did that too. You know, it was just like, I really had my reservations. I just was like. Like, I don't think I could date this person, you know? And finally she was like, all right, it. I'm just. I'm not going to wait around for you, you know? And I. She forced my hand. I had to figure that out. And I liked. You know, And I did like her enough, you know, that was kind of the point. And if I didn't. And I had other women, various reasons in the pat in my 30s, who I casually dated, and we didn't be boyfriend and girlfriend, and they presented me with that, and I ultimately let him go because I clearly didn't care enough.

Megan (92:49)

I think I'm just a little scared. I haven't. I haven't. I've been single for quite a while, and this is just like the first person that I've actually liked. And he checks lots of boxes, so. But I just like something I need to do. I just needed.

Nick (93:07)

Yeah, I. I totally get it. I totally get. It's just not a reason not to do it because otherwise you'd just be making that very, very cardinal mistake, which is to, like, yeah, just kind of get that that's you giving into your fears. Right. And it's the literal opposite energy than what you need to portray to this man, which is like, oh, my God, I haven't had a boyfriend. And listen, I get it. You're. You're saying, I just haven't had to like to guy. And so it's not like you're. You can't get a Boyfriend. You just. They're having guys you liked, right? And you like him, but the energy still gives of. I. You know, I need a. I need him. I need him. I can't live without him. What am I gonna do without him? Oh, my God. I can't, you know, like, no other. And, like. And that's the energy just. You don't want to give. And then. Because he's just going to be like. Well, you know, whether he. He's not. It's not even his conscious brain, you know, he's just. Again, like, I don't know. If someone's just offering you 20 bucks, even if it costs 10, you're just going to take the 20 bucks. It's just human nature. So you have to do your part to not make it easy for him to just, like, really enjoy. How convenient. You're making this all for him. Him.

Megan (94:12)

I. I'm gonna bring it up tomorrow, try to, like, poke fun at it.

Nick (94:18)

When he said that he was falling for you, what'd you say?

Megan (94:21)

It was like a big, long text. He came over the night before.

Nick (94:25)

He said this in a text?

Megan (94:27)

Yeah.

Nick (94:28)

Well, that's not just throwing it out there. He typed that?

Megan (94:32)

Yeah. Because the night before, he came over for dinner, and he, like, brought me flowers, and it was just. We stayed up, just talked on my couch for, like, three hours. And it just felt like. I can't even explain it. It just felt, like, really good. And in the morning, I texted him, and I was like, thanks for coming over last night. I had a good time. Like, I like spending time with you. And he's like, yeah, I really enjoy spending time with you. I never want to leave when we're together. I'm falling in love with you too quickly. It's not fair. And then I just responded back. I said, the feelings are mutual. I'm excited to see where this goes. And he said, me, too.

Nick (95:14)

Next time you see him, I would say, what do you. That's how you start the conversation. Be like, hey, can we talk about that text you sent? What did you mean, that's not fair? Like, maybe it was just a line. I don't know. But I'd love to know.

Megan (95:24)

I don't know. I think it was more of, like, a joke. Like, it's not fair. It's too quick. Like, it should be.

Claire (95:29)

Shouldn't.

Megan (95:29)

But I'll ask.

Nick (95:31)

But that's why you ask. Because, you know, it's like, is he. Is that. Does he mean it's not fair? And that he. Did he really throw that in there for a reason, which is, like, it's not fair to you or us because, like, I can't possibly get into a relationship with another girl. So we're just two people who love each other who can't be together. Or did he just kind of like, say it as a throwaway? Because, like, I don't know, it just felt like a cool line to say and there's not that much meaning behind it.

Megan (95:58)

Like him saying, oh, it's not fair. Like, it was. It was cute, but it wasn't like this super serious thing, you know, kind of like playing it cool.

Nick (96:06)

Well, yeah, listen a lot. Everything he's saying and doing is great. You just have to make sure he means it and you have to give him permission. I think the scariest thing you can say to him right now is to say, and maybe that's what you say to him. Like, listen, I don't. I love where this is going. Going. I. I don't. With most dudes I'm picky as. But, like, I really am enjoying our time and honestly, I'm fine with how this is going and I actually, I'm glad that we feel the way each. Each other's does and I'm, you know, and just kind of say, like, this is great. And you. I would say something like, we're probably a ways away from calling each other boyfriend and girlfriend, but, like, since we do enjoy each other's company this much, and since we, I guess, are playing with the L word, I just want to make sure that we're on the same page and we're like, this is. We're only seeing each other. And then maybe it's just that simple.

Megan (96:57)

That's again, where my issue, like, that's what I need to say and it's right. But I'm just like, I don't want to sound crazy. I don't want to sound.

Nick (97:05)

How is that crazy? That's not crazy. You're having sex, he's throwing out the L word, and all you're making sure is that, like, without. Without wearing a condom, you're. You're not going to get herpes or chlamydia, you know, like, you know that's not crazy. If you break it down, you're just like, hey, we're having sex and we're sharing emotions, and I'm just, just checking in to make sure that, like, because, you know, I'm not your girlfriend, so technically you get to do whatever the you want. But it would be kind of up at this point, like, you know, you guys need to acknowledge that if either of you did some other. It would be hurtful the other person. And that's okay to acknowledge. That's not crazy. You just have to try to be chill about it where it's just like, yeah, this is awesome. Like, this is great. I really love where it's going. And honestly, I don't. I don't even. I don't even feel bad that we. I get why you feel about the way you do about me, you know, but, like, I'm, you know, like, again.

Megan (97:59)

Like, I'm pretty mellow in general. It's just like, the way I articulate it. I want it to come out right.

Nick (98:06)

You know, I would challenge you to. To. To try not to get like, it's. It's just not that complicated. It's not that deep. This is not a nuanced conversation. You don't have to, like, say it perfectly. And the good news is he did. Like, I know we. You know, it's like things can change and things change fast and men and people can get caught up in emotions. But, like, what you are describing are a lot of green, you know, Like, I'm contradicting myself. But, like, in terms of this past thing, like him sending you that message and giving you flowers and saying what he said, maybe it's a little too fast, but it. It sounds like he messaged it in a way that was like, hey, just so you know, I really like how I'm. I like you. That was. He took the initiative there. Did you think he was crazy? No. Okay, so then why are you so worried? For you to reciprocate now. Now it's your turn to take that to. To do that. That. And then maybe you say that like, since we're. Since we're lowkey using the we're. We're. I guess we're. Since we're following each with each other and say it playfully and be like, that's crazy. But, like, I'm just making sure. Like, I. We're not. We're not the boyfriend and girlfriend stage here yet. But like, I just want to make sure that, like, you know. Yeah, like, we, like, we're. We're. We're seeing where this goes, right? We're all, well, well, while not seeing it while it goes with other people. And you could say, like, I'm just making sure because I know you just got out of a relationship. I don't think it's that big of a deal, but I just want to make sure you can handle it. This. And if he says, well, I don't. You know, it is too soon. That's the, that's the thing that you're afraid of him saying. But fine, if you would still need to hear him say it, because even if he says that doesn't mean he doesn't like you. Doesn't mean he's gonna. You over it. It honestly, right. It's. It's a normal human response for him to have, which is like, holy. Like, do I jump into another relationship right away? So.

Megan (99:54)

So it's like, I. I can't be mad at him for that.

Nick (99:57)

That.

Megan (99:57)

Because it's. I understand.

Nick (99:59)

Yeah, of course you're not mad. But you, You, You. You don't have to be mad at him to say, okay, well, I'm glad you still have a right to know where he stands, because then you can protect yourself better and you might be able to make different decisions, which is like, fair enough. All right. I totally get that. But, you know, that's where you. That's where you challenge him, right? Because that's something. If he does say that, it might just be like the thing he thinks he should say. It just might be, again, like, more based off of, you know, what he expected of his dating. Like when he got out of this relationship. Maybe. I don't know, maybe he thought maybe he broke up with her for you. I don't know. We don't know. But I'm just saying it would be a normal response. I hope I'm making myself clear here, because I feel like I'm bouncing all over the place. But if he says that, right, it's an. We. We agree. It's a normal response based off of him actually getting out of a relationship recently. And most of the time, when we get our relationship, we want to shop around a little bit to see our other options. Right. He found you right away, really liked what he's learning so far. And is he willing to just take a risk on you in this relationship without needing to do more shopping or not? And it might hurt you a little bit because again, the natural instincts, like, if you planned a day of shopping with a limited budget and the first store you went to, you found something you really loved, but it was your entire budget. You would be like, oh, let me put. You would ask. You would ask them if they could put on hold, and then you would go shop, and then you would come back if you didn't find anything else better. So it's normal. And you have to bet on yourself and essentially say, go Shop but the I can't put these on hold.

Megan (101:39)

Yeah. I'm extremely stubborn and so yeah if that is the case like no longer happening. Not a thing.

Nick (101:49)

Good. But. But when you do it just be very chill about it. And again like because he might just say that because he's like thinks he has to again. I. I told my wife no plenty of times before I said yes and she was the one who was right and I was wrong. Right. I had to figure my out. Right. But I did thankfully in time he might need to say yeah I just don't know if I can right now. And he's gonna go home and maybe go on the dating apps and then again bet on yourself and be that pair of shoes that like you know, that's like I'm not putting this on hold because like I, I'm too many people want it and I'm sorry like if someone else better comes along who wants to these pair of shoes. I'm not waiting around for you because you are ready. You know what I'm saying? You are ready for that person, whoever that person is to come into your life life. And if he's not ready, good for him. But you are. And when, when you say that you're ready I want you to say it which is like you're ready because you emotionally ready or being not being ready is someone who's like needs to figure their out right. So you don't need to. So you say it is like not from a place of desperation. I'm not ready because I haven't had a boyfriend in forever and God damn I just want a boyfriend. You're ready because you are, you are confident enough you're yourself to be single for a period of time because you knew that you didn't need a boyfriend and you weren't just going to go out with anyone and you've been ready for a while for that right person and so far you're really, really liking what you see from him and you're just not about wasting your time.

Megan (103:20)

Exactly what I need to do. And I would normally talk about or talk this through with my brother. He reminds me a lot of you. But just given the situation I'm trying to keep him out of it.

Nick (103:33)

I respect that. Yeah. Try not to over complicate. I'm worried for you that it's not even as bad as you're worrying it is and you kind of like you know, kind of. I've just been saying where it's like it'd be normal for him to Say this and you. And like, you know that, right? So you're anticipating him saying the very thing that most people in his position say. But he had. This is a guy who reached out to you unprompted and sent you a text saying that he's falling for you. And also said he's really excited to see where this goes. Things change and change. Things change fast. We know that, but you don't have to assume the worst.

Megan (104:07)

I think it's just like a defense mechanism, maybe.

Nick (104:09)

Yeah, of course.

Megan (104:11)

Yeah, I'll talk to him tomorrow.

Nick (104:13)

Yeah. And maybe it's just like at some point you're on the couch and you say, since we're low key falling for each other, I've decided I don't want to see anyone else. And I'm. I want to make sure you don't want to either.

Megan (104:27)

Yeah.

Nick (104:28)

Yeah. So this is what you say. There we go. We got it. We workshopped it. I've worked out into my head. So I'm just gonna tell you here. It's like, since we're low key falling for each other, while we might not be ready to be boyfriend and girlfriend yet, I do know that I don't want to do this with anyone else right now. And I want to focus on, like, seeing if there's actually something here. And I just want to make sure that we're on the same page. And he will most likely probably say, yeah, I feel the same way. Way, and great. And if he says, then you could say, all right, well, fair enough. But I am not putting myself on hold while you figure it out. And I totally get, I mean, I get it. I'm, you know, it's a normal. And you talk to him like a therapist. It's normal. It's totally normal. But nevertheless, clearly you like what you're doing right now. And if, if, if that's too much for you to handle, then I'm, I'm not, I'm not chilling, I'm not waiting. And you're just very close, calm. And then honestly, you could be like, you know, don't. You don't. You don't have to abruptly end the night. You know, you don't. You know, you can just be confident. Just be like, be totally unbothered. There's nothing, nothing up men more than seeing a calm woman, like when they are expecting that woman to be not calm and she's calm. It's. It's. It's the most powerful thing you, you all can do.

Megan (105:40)

And it's not even. It's More like emotional. I don't want to get emotional.

Nick (105:46)

No, I know. Yeah, I know. Yeah. And trust me, you don't want to get emotional. You want to be. You want to be very. Okay. All right, well, I get it. Totally cool. Because that'll. That'll fuck him up. He wants you to cry. Not that he wants you to cry, but he wants to know that you care. He wants to know that it's going to hurt you to enforce that boundary. That not his conscious brain is his subconscious brain, because that will give him a little more security. And if he is going to go shoe shopping, he needs to be super afraid that as soon as he leaves that store, someone's going to walk right in and actually appreciate the value that it is.

Megan (106:24)

I like your take on it. I think my idea was a little too serious. And it just doesn't have to be.

Nick (106:31)

No. Yeah. It does not have to be. Do you remember what I said? Can you repeat it back to me?

Megan (106:36)

Okay, so I really, like, like, where this has been going. I enjoy spending time with you. And if we're gonna play around with the L word, like, I'm not sleeping with anyone else. And it'd be pretty cool if we're on the same page.

Nick (106:50)

Yeah, something like that. Workshop it. Practice. Yeah, that's not bad. But it's not just the sleeping around. It's like, I'm not. I'm not seeing anyone else. Be specific. Yeah, I don't want to see anyone else. I'm not sleeping with anyone else. Honestly, like. Like, I meant what I said when I wake up, and I just want to, like, see you. Just want to make sure we're on the same page. It's not. It's not that heavy. Okay.

Megan (107:14)

And I think, like, over for dinner, should I wait until, like, after dinner? Do I bring it up right away or just, like. Because I don't want us to, like, sitting on the couch and be like. So what's. Like, what's.

Nick (107:26)

Well, while we're cooking, I mean, I'm assuming you were. Minus this whole, like, conversation. You've decided that you think you should have. And we decided. Do you think you should have, like, you. You would probably hook up with him, right? Tomorrow. Like, you're planning on. Is he planning on having sex with you tomorrow? Probably.

Megan (107:40)

So. Yeah, we talked about having dinner and him just staying the night because we both wake up early and we work next to each other.

Nick (107:48)

Okay, so which means you'll probably hook up, Right? Well, I will say this. You'll get the most honest Answer after you have sex.

Megan (107:56)

Yeah, that's true. So just while we're laying in bed, like, after.

Nick (108:04)

I mean, listen, like, I mean. Yeah, I definitely don't think this is so urgent that you can't sleep. You've already been sleeping with this guy. 1. You know, hooking up with him one more time isn't gonna change anything, so you might as well get yours one more time. If nothing else, I really think you're gonna get a. I mean, I really think he likes you. It sounds like he does, and I really think that this is going in the right direction. But. Yeah, I don't know. Like, I. Yes. I don't think you should. Do not again. This isn't a big conversation. Try not to be thinking about it all through dinner. Just remind yourself that this is something you want to bring up before you, you know, you leave. And then when you. You hook up, you're lying in bed, and then just, like, try to embrace the moment. Hopefully, you'll have a great night. And hopefully, like, it'll be a great moment hooking up with them, and you're just like, yeah, like, I really. Just repeating what I said the night before. I really like you, and I just. I'm not seeing anyone else. I don't want to do this anyone else. And, like, I. You know, and say what you. And say that without making it heavy. Just, like, almost say it without it being a thing. All right. You feeling. You feeling better?

Megan (109:09)

Yeah. I think that that's a great time to just bring it up because it'll feel just organic and will be like, inner feelings kind of after just laying there and it doesn't seem so forced.

Nick (109:21)

Yeah. And, like, honestly, hopefully it just, like, it'll actually make a lot of sense, given that you guys had a really enjoyable night. Be present when you're enjoying the night, trying to think about it. This is like, again, also, if, you know, if you end up not saying it tomorrow, it's not the end of the world. This is normal. He's already done this. You already had a positive conversation. It's not that heavy. This is you checking in. This is you doing your part. He's done that. That. And just. You're just be prepared to just enforce that boundary if you get unexpected bad news and. And do it in a way that doesn't make you feel emotionally crushed and anticipate the fact that, like, it would be a normal response for him to give you that kind of like, I don't know if I'm ready.

Megan (110:05)

Well, it's fair that's all. Fair. Thank you.

Nick (110:08)

Yeah.

Megan (110:08)

I appreciate.

Nick (110:09)

If you're gonna do anything emotionally, if you don't get the response that you want, just roll your eyes, place. Okay. What exactly. About what? You know, it's like, really, what? You know, what? What aren't you ready for?

Megan (110:23)

Yeah. Then just roll over and go to sleep.

Nick (110:27)

Try. You. I think you know that you are an emotional person. It sounds like I'm hearing. Just try. You just don't overreact to whatever news you get because it. All you're doing is checking in and it is new, and you guys don't have a huge emotional connection. Try not to overreact.

Megan (110:46)

Yeah. And we haven't had conversations like this before, so, you know, I think it's getting to know each other on that level and how we respond and.

Nick (110:56)

Well, actually, I would say. I would disagree that one part. You actually, you did have a conversation. It was great. It was more on the lovey dovey in your feelings conversation. And now you're like, you're continuing that conversation and you're bringing it up this time as opposed to him bringing it up, up, and you're being slightly more pragmatic about it than he was. You know what I'm saying? Because he was like, oh. He was like, oh, I'm kind of falling for you. And it's not fair, but I really like where this is going. This is great, which is, like, really great to hear. And it's nice and it's affirming, and it makes you feel good, but it doesn't give you clarity about what exactly that means. And you're just asking for just a little bit of clarity, you know, that's it. That's all you're doing. Okay. All right, all right, all right. Keep us posted. I'd love to know. Know what he. What he says.

Megan (111:41)

Yeah, I'll let you guys know. All right, thank you.

Nick (111:43)

I'm feel. I'm feeling good things. Good luck. I'm. I'm feeling good about this.

Megan (111:48)

All right. Thank you, Nick.

Nick (111:49)

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Thanks.

Nick (112:28)

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Seriously, Let me check this pocket.

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