E959 Ask Nick - My Doctor’s Big Secret

Summary

The Viall Files – Episode E959: Ask Nick – "My Doctor’s Big Secret"

Release Date: June 30, 2025

In this compelling episode of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall delves into two heartfelt listener calls, offering insightful advice on navigating complex relationship challenges. The episode, titled "My Doctor’s Big Secret," primarily focuses on Lauren’s distressing experience with a romantic partner who revealed a significant health concern. Additionally, Nick addresses Taylor’s dilemma about confronting a friend involved in substance abuse. Throughout the discussions, Nick emphasizes the importance of communication, emotional intelligence, and self-awareness in maintaining healthy relationships.

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Listener Call 1: Taylor – Confronting a Friend About Cocaine Use

Timestamp: [01:03] – [16:40]

Introduction of the Problem: Taylor, a 27-year-old caller, reaches out seeking guidance on how to confront her friend, Claire, who has been hiding her cocaine use. The situation is further complicated by mutual friends and Claire's boyfriend, who introduced her to cocaine.

Key Details:

• Mutual Friends Involved: Taylor and Sarah share a mutual friend, Claire, who has been using cocaine with her boyfriend.
• Source of Information: Sarah learns about Claire’s drug use from another open-minded friend who disapproves of Claire’s actions.
• Taylor’s Dilemma: Taylor is torn between maintaining her friendship with Sarah and addressing the severity of Claire’s drug use, which poses significant health risks.

Notable Quotes:

• Nick Viall: "[02:46] Nick: Gotcha. Gotcha. And why didn't she want you to know?"

• Taylor: "[04:11] Taylor: I don't know. I don't want to betray Sarah by talking to Claire and being like, I know about this, but her boyfriend has gotten her into it."

Advice Provided: Nick emphasizes the importance of approaching the situation with love and concern rather than judgment. He advises Taylor and Sarah to unite in addressing Claire's behavior, highlighting the destructive nature of cocaine and the potential long-term health consequences. Nick underscores the necessity of setting personal needs aside to prioritize Claire's well-being, even if it means facing potential conflict or being labeled as the "bad guy."

Key Takeaways:

• Unified Approach: Taylor and Sarah should collaborate to confront Claire together, presenting a united front focused on compassionate concern.
• Communication Strategy: Lead with empathy, assuring Claire that their actions stem from love and concern for her health, not from a place of judgment.
• Safety Considerations: While supporting Claire, Taylor and Sarah should also ensure their own safety, avoiding situations where Claire’s behavior could negatively impact them.

Notable Quotes:

• Nick Viall: "[08:06] Nick: You just have to remain calm and say, I’m sorry you’re upset. We love you, and I hope that you understand why we’re doing this."

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Listener Call 2: Lauren – Dealing with a Partner’s Herpes Diagnosis

Timestamp: [48:20] – [77:03]

Introduction of the Problem: Lauren, a 35-year-old single mother, shares her troubling experience with a recent romantic partner who disclosed being HSV positive after their first intimate encounter. Her story reveals a series of red flags and manipulative behaviors that left her feeling uneasy and emotionally drained.

Key Details:

• Initial Attraction: Lauren connected with her partner, a pediatrician, through dating apps. Their relationship progressed swiftly, with multiple dates and deepening personal connections.
• Red Flags Identified:
  • Inconsistent Communication: After initial dates, her partner abruptly distanced himself citing external drama related to his ex-girlfriend.
  • Favoritism and Manipulation: Despite distancing, he continued to reach out and strengthen their relationship, creating confusion.
  • Health Disclosure: Post-intimacy, he revealed his HSV status, leading to further trust issues.
  • Confrontation with Ex: An unexpected and aggressive encounter with his ex-girlfriend exposed deeper issues in his character and their relationship dynamics.

Notable Quotes:

• Lauren: "[54:26] Lauren: I just want to get all the details in."

• Nick Viall: "[60:36] Nick: I think the fastest thing I can say is maybe stop dating doctors."

Advice Provided: Nick confronts Lauren about overlooking red flags in favor of the excitement of a new relationship. He advises her to trust her instincts and prioritize her well-being over the immediate emotional gratification of being pursued. Nick emphasizes the importance of recognizing manipulative behaviors and setting clear boundaries to avoid future heartbreak and potential health risks.

Key Takeaways:

• Trusting Instincts: Lauren is encouraged to listen to her gut feelings when something feels off in a relationship.
• Recognizing Red Flags: Behaviors such as sudden distancing, inconsistent communication, and overcompensation attempts are indicators of potential issues.
• Prioritizing Self-Respect: It's crucial for Lauren to value herself enough to walk away from relationships that exhibit unhealthy dynamics, regardless of their initial appeal.
• Seeking Support: Consulting with friends and possibly seeking professional therapy can provide Lauren with the tools to make healthier relationship choices moving forward.

Notable Quotes:

• Nick Viall: "[71:15] Nick: Character being a little. Hurting herself. But maybe it's a reflection of choices you're making and some bad habits you have developed, that's for sure."

• Lauren: "[75:10] Lauren: So, like, in less than two weeks, you had some. Two, like, really bizarre behaviors that you, like, on some level, follow your instinct because you went to, like, are we dating the same guy?"

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Nick Viall provides compassionate and pragmatic advice, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness and proactive communication in relationships. He encourages listeners to:

• Address Issues with Empathy: Approach sensitive topics with a focus on concern and support rather than judgment.
• Recognize and Act on Red Flags: Be vigilant about inconsistent or suspicious behaviors that may signal deeper problems.
• Prioritize Personal Well-Being: Ensure that personal safety and emotional health are at the forefront of any relationship decision.

Notable Quote:

• Nick Viall: "[76:36] Nick: Think of your kids. You know, again, you got. You're just wasting all this time and energy. Like, don't you know? Are you in therapy?"

By blending real-life scenarios with expert advice, this episode of The Viall Files serves as a valuable resource for anyone navigating the complexities of modern relationships, offering guidance on maintaining healthy boundaries and making informed decisions for lasting happiness.

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Jamie]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

How's it going?

[Taylor]

Hi, I'm Taylor. I'm 27 and I was wondering how do I confront my friend about hiding cocaine?

[Nick]

Okay. How did you find out about your friend hiding cocaine?

[Taylor]

So I actually found out through a friend of both of us. So a mutual friend. She told me because it was her boyfriend that got her into cocaine and we were going to meet her boyfriend and so she wanted me to know before I met her boyfriend.

[Nick]

I'm a little confused. So who.

[Taylor]

Okay, so we have a mutual friend.

[Nick]

Who's we? The friend that you're concerned about?

[Taylor]

Yes.

[Nick]

Okay, so you and your friend that is hiding cocaine have a mutual friend. Okay, I'm with you so far.

[Taylor]

Yes. So it's like the three of us. Okay, so the friend who's not doing cocaine, we'll just call her Sarah.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Taylor]

She told me be that our friend Claire, okay. Got into cocaine because her boyfriend introduced her to it.

[Nick]

Claire's boyfriend introduced her to it?

[Taylor]

Yes.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Taylor]

And so they started doing cocaine together and Sarah or Claire wanted us to meet her boyfriend. So Sarah told me that they're doing cocaine because she thought it was important that I knew before I met him.

[Nick]

How did Sarah find out?

[Taylor]

Because Claire told her.

[Nick]

Oh, okay.

[Taylor]

So Claire told Sarah that they're doing cocaine but Claire told Sarah that she wasn't going to tell me because she didn't want me to know. So then Sarah told me so I would know before I met the boyfriend.

[Nick]

Gotcha. Gotcha. And why didn't she want you to know?

[Taylor]

So she has a friend outside of this who has a more like Claire. Claire. Yes. Claire has a friend outside of this who has like a more open minded stance on a lot of different things. And so like she's, she does a lot of drugs on her own on the side. And so Claire told her friend before she told anybody else. And her friend, who has a more open minded stance on things, got really upset with her about it and like was really mad that like she started doing cocaine with her boyfriend. So that kind of like turned her off from telling anybody. So then she told Sarah that she didn't want me to know because she thought I was going to have an even worse reaction than the first friend that.

[Nick]

So her open minded friend appropriately was concerned for Claire because she was using cocaine. Okay.

[Taylor]

Correct.

[Nick]

And I'm guessing maybe her friend might like dabble in marijuana or mushrooms or whatever. Yeah.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Taylor]

Yeah, yeah. So. Well, it's kind of on the side too of like, I don't have a problem. Like if you want to do drugs, that's your thing. That's just how it's.

[Nick]

Claire.

[Taylor]

Claire is 25.

[Nick]

How old are you again?

[Taylor]

I'm 27.

[Nick]

What do you think you should do?

[Lauren]

I.

[Taylor]

I don't know. I don't want to betray Sarah by talking to Claire and being like, I know about this, but her boyfriend has gotten her into it. He's also like caused her to drink more and she has an alcoholic history in her family. He's like told her that because of his job he's going to flirt with girls. He works in like the service industry and because he needs the tips, he's not going to stop flirting with girls. So like, I know that I need to have a conversation with her about it. I just don't know if I conclude that include the cocaine or not.

[Nick]

Well, I mean, first of all, Sarah has already violated Claire's trust. Right. So, you know, there is that. But I think we can all agree that everyone is just concerned for Clara's well being.

[Taylor]

Correct?

[Nick]

Right. I'm. I'm assuming Sarah told you that. Not to gossip, but out of concern.

[Taylor]

Yes.

[Nick]

So I think you and Sarah need to come together. And Sarah, you know, it's like, yeah, listen, Claire's gonna be mad at both of you. Like, I don't think so. You know, like this isn't going to go well. It's not like Claire's gonna be like, oh, you know what? Yeah, if you don't think I should do it, I'm, you know, you're right. I'm just gonna stop. You know her, her friend that she told who, you know.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Who does mushroom? I don't know. Like, we're just assuming but like Cocaine is not the same. It's a. Cocaine is a hard fucking drug that is incredibly addictive and incredibly destructive and incredibly costly, and it will kill you, if not immediately, but over. I mean, it's gonna explode her heart, you know, it's gonna cause irreparable heart damage that, you know, she may pay the price 20, 30 years from now, and instead of living till she 70, will, you know, die of a heart attack at 58. But, like, you know, I don't know if Claire's thinking about that right now, but, like, it's not the same, you know? So you guys need to come together and set your personal needs aside. Your personal needs are both. That you're are keeping the peace. Your personal needs are not having Claire be upset with you guys. Your personal needs are not being the bad guy. So you guys need to come together and agree that it's not about your needs right now. And that if. Even if Claire gets upset with you, you're trying to do the right thing here. And then from that point on, once you guys both. Once you and Sarah have agreed that, like, all right, you guys need to talk to Claire together.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And say, hey, I'm. I'm sorry, but I violated your trust. And I told Taylor I'm sorry, but we're concerned, you know, this is scary stuff. Even mushroom girl is concerned, you know?

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Like, you shouldn't be asked. Like, I. I know you like this guy, but, like, fine, date him, whatever. But, like, this is dangerous. And, like, this isn't good for you, and this isn't gonna, like, you know, this is not. This is in no way gonna make your life better. It's only gonna make it worse, you know? And I. I'm not judging you, you know, I don't love you any less. I don't think of you any differently. I. You know, I just. I'm just worried for you, you know? And so you have to try to make her feel not judged, and you have to make her feel like you still very much love her even more and that you're just concerned and you're here for her and you just, you know, we're not trying to gossip behind your back. It's just like you're making decisions that could ruin your life, you know?

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

If she, like, gets mad and, like, screams, we just, like.

[Lauren]

Because it.

[Taylor]

That's been, like, what's happened in the past. If we have to, like, confront her with something, she gets, like, really mad and starts screaming.

[Nick]

You just. You got to remain calm and say, I. I I'm sorry you're upset. We love you, and, you know, I hope that you understand why we're doing this, and then just, we're always here for you. And she might say, you, I never want to be friends with you. You guys betray. I don't know. She might say a lot of crazy. I mean, she's on cocaine.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Nick]

And you just. You lead with love. And if you just. And you maybe send her a message now and then say, thinking of you, here for you, here if you need. You know, you deserve better than this. You know, like, the reason people, like, put up with things that aren't good for them is because they don't think they deserve more. So on some level, Claire doesn't think she deserves more than this guy.

[Taylor]

Well, which has been something that has been, like, an issue in the past, is she'll, like, settle for guys that are not great, and then the relationship just ends. But I think that he's semi better than what she's had in the past. So she's, like, thinking, he's a phenomenal guy and he's the best thing ever.

[Nick]

He got her into cocaine and he's flirting with other women.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Openly. It's a tough situation. Yeah. And, you know, Claire's not gonna handle it well, you know, but you're honestly trying to save a life here, you know, so.

[Natalie]

Right.

[Taylor]

Well, and her boyfriend has, like, friends that have, like, overdosed on it and die. And then, like, she has a friend who just got, like, put in the hospital because he got beat up so bad by somebody that's on cocaine. Like, it's just like.

[Nick]

Yeah. And with fentanyl being what it is, like, she has no idea where it could be laced with fentanyl. And, I mean.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Nick]

I doubt she's in a. In a position to afford pure, safe cocaine.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah. So.

[Taylor]

So then my other question is, like, do we meet the boyfriend?

[Nick]

In what context do you mean?

[Taylor]

Just, like. I mean, she just wants us to, like, go out and, like, get, like, dinner with him and, like, whatever. But I think if we have this conversation with her, like, she probably isn't gonna want us to, like, meet him. I don't think she'll talk to us for a while.

[Nick]

Yeah, I, I don't think you should alienate your friend. So if she, I, I, you know, unless you think he's gonna. This boyfriend's gonna put you in an or get you guys hooked on cocaine, like, I don't think you should put yourself in an unsafe situation. But if you think that you women can handle yourselves and, and can, you know, I think being there with your friend and for your friend to try to be a good influence while he's being a bad influence. So you should probably try to do that. That being said, I do think you should confront her first and foremost and just be like, right. And maybe not like, maybe leave the flirting part out of it. And like, maybe it's just the talking about her boyfriend. Leave that part out of it. But it's just more about like, I'm glad you're happy and I, you know, we just want you to be happy. But like, yeah, you're like, you're doing something that's incredibly dangerous and destructive and it's, it's concerning for us. And, you know, we're not judging you. Like, we don't think of you any different. We love you. But like, it's, this is, you know, this is dangerous, you know.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Nick]

If she was playing Russian roulette every Wednesday at 4pm you'd probably be like, hey, one of these days.

[Taylor]

Right?

[Nick]

You know?

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So that's what she's doing. So this is about saving a life and in the meantime. Yes. This is not about the principle of things. This is not about like, well, I can't support you, so I'm not going to make you. This is not about punishing your friend for not doing what you think she should do. You know, this is about being there for her, making her feel valuable, making her believe in herself, giving her, trying to give her the confidence to take care of herself. You know, everything that she's doing says, this is a person who doesn't think they're worth it.

[Taylor]

Right.

[Nick]

And you need to, she needs people who believe in her and give her confidence and, and even when she's not being nice to you, having empathy for, you know, her, her frame of mind and trying to be with, be there for her. But you and Sarah need to get on the same page. You know, the whole like, well, I only told her and she only told me. You're all gossiping right now and that just comes across as gossip. Not. We're concerned for Claire. Right. And I think you reach out to Sarah and say, hey, we have a, we have a friend who's really in danger. We need to be there for our friend. I think we need to come together. I didn't think. We need to talk to Claire, get even, bring in mushroom friend if you need to Internet friends with her. You can all get together and be like, hey, we're really worried about Claire. And then you all just feel. You all will come with love, and you come with support, and you try to make Claire feel. You know, help her believe in herself.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

So if Sarah doesn't want to have that conversation with her and doesn't want me to tell her like that. I know.

[Nick]

Then what do I do? Then you do the right thing. You say, well, I'm still gonna tell her because, like, you not telling her is, like, you're only worrying about yourself right now. Because that tells me Sarah. That tells me Sarah only told you to gossip.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So, okay. Like, you know, all due respect, Sarah, I'm just like. We have a friend who's playing Russian roulette with her life, and you're worried about her being mad at you for telling me. I mean, you did tell me. I'm glad you told me. You did the right thing. But, like, right. I think Claire not putting her life at risk is more important than her thinking. Her finding out the truth that you. You told me something. And I'm hoping you told me because you're just concerned about Claire, not because you wanted to gossip. So if Sarah is resistant, I would gently try to make her realize that the right thing is for you guys to come together and try to help your friend who's putting their life in danger. Right.

[Taylor]

And if Sarah still doesn't want to, then I just go by myself anyway.

[Nick]

Now, then reach out to mushroom friend, and maybe, you know, you guys can do it.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah. It's. This is. This is about doing the right thing. This is not about, you know.

[Taylor]

Right.

[Nick]

It's not about gossiping.

[Taylor]

Yeah. Do I bring up, like, the whole, like, drinking aspect of it, too, or I just leave it straight with the cocaine?

[Nick]

Yeah. I'm not an interventionalist, so maybe I'm speaking on things that I don't. I don't. But my unprofessional opinion on. On this. And maybe, you know, Al Anon is a group for people who have friends and loved ones with addiction problems. I'm sure there's literature online that you can read to give me, get some advice about the best way approaching this type of, like, intervention. But I don't think you need to pile on. This is not about making your friend feel guilty for her decisions. This is just about trying to make your friend realize that they are loved and they are worth it, and then they're doing things that are putting their life at risk. So, yeah, you know, that's why, like, we don't need to, like, pile on about the boyfriend and it's just. This is about. You need to make her feel enough.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Taylor]

That's the goal.

[Nick]

It's tough. Yeah. But this is about doing the right thing. This is not about being right. This is not about being better than Claire because you guys don't do drugs and you know better and she doesn't. This is not about any of that.

[Taylor]

Right.

[Nick]

So.

[Taylor]

And so if we have this conversation and she keeps doing it, we just keep loving her and.

[Nick]

Yeah. I mean, you know, as long as you can, as long as her actions don't put you in an unsafe situation, then there's no reason why you can't try to be there for your friend.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I don't think you, like, you know, if she, like, invites you to a rave that, you know, there's going to be a lot of cocaine use and you going is just going to put you in a vulnerable situation and it's not going to stop her. Like, you know, maybe you don't go to that rave, but I would try as much as you can to be there for her and not abandon her. As long as you're safe.

[Jamie]

Yeah, for sure.

[Taylor]

For sure. I'm just working on confrontation is something that I need to work on.

[Nick]

Sure. Most people do. But again, this is a real opportunity. I mean, I don't think I'm being hyperbolic or exaggerating when I say, like, you know, the fentanyl epidemic is a real thing. And there's, you know. Yeah. Every time your friend snorts cocaine could be the. Their last moment. So, you know.

[Taylor]

Right.

[Nick]

Not. I don't think I'm guessing. She's probably not walking around with whatever it is that shot is that they're giving kids now who, in case they OD on fentanyl. And even if she is, like, that's, you know. Right. A bunch of people who all coked up are gonna make quick, smart decisions in real time when someone's ODing. I don't know. Maybe. Probably not.

[Taylor]

Right.

[Nick]

So, yeah, I think this is a great time to. To conquer your fears of confrontation. You're saving a life here, you know, just do the right thing. The reason why it's called the right thing is because it's always harder to do. Otherwise you would. No one would care about the right thing because it'd be like, of course, if the right thing's the easy thing, then it doesn't need the credit of being the right thing, you know?

[Lauren]

Right. Yeah.

[Taylor]

When you put it that way, like, she could end up, like, dying, essentially.

[Jamie]

It's.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

What's what's worse, confrontation or losing somebody. That's important to me.

[Nick]

Yeah, it happens constantly. Like Dr. Laura Berman, who has been on the show, her 16 year old son died, Fentanyl overdose because he got some drugs from some guy on Snapchat or whatever. And like it happens all the time. And it wasn't this, this wasn't like a kid who was just like doing a bunch of drugs. It was just one really unlucky moment. And you know, that can definitely happen to your friend.

[Taylor]

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

[Lauren]

Well, that's good.

[Taylor]

That's good to know. I'll work on confrontation. I'll reach out to Sarah, we'll try and come up with something.

[Nick]

Yeah, and if Sarah wants to do the right thing, she, she, you know, I hope she told you because she was trying to do the right thing and not trying to gossip. Right?

[Taylor]

Well, yeah, she, she said along lines of like she told me because her and her husband decided that like, they didn't want him to like come to their house. Like they didn't want the boyfriend to come to their house at all ever, in case he has cocaine.

[Nick]

That's fair. But like, yeah, you know, yeah. Boy, you guys are gonna feel real guilty if one day you get a call that she died and you, you couldn't bother at least trying to talk her out of it.

[Jamie]

Right?

[Taylor]

Yeah, that's really scary. So, yeah, you're right, you're right. Like always.

[Nick]

Keep me posted. But yeah, just leave with love and, you know, expect the outburst, you know, but you're. This is about making her feel valued and believing in herself that she's enough and she is worth it. She is used to this, you know, the gossip behind her back and people judging her for, you know, her decisions or the boys she dates and things like that. That is not going to help this friend out. You know, she needs people who believe in her.

[Taylor]

Right. And that's something I didn't think about too. She's had enough people in her life not treat her well. She deserves to have her best friend speak up about something.

[Nick]

Yeah, okay. For sure.

[Taylor]

One last thing I wanted to say before I go. I wanted to thank you for your podcast. I've been listening to it for like years and I was in a situationship for three years and just listening to your honest opinion and your podcast and Ask Nick and everything. It really helped me. And I'm actually like married to the love of my life and in a very happy, healthy relationship. And I just wanted to say thank you because your podcast really helped me get out of really gross situations.

[Nick]

Well, I really appreciate you saying that and congratulations on loving yourself. And now you get to pay it forward to your friend here and spread the good word of making tough but healthy decisions that help, you know, that stop you from being stuck. Right. Because like, what Claire is going through right now is just a different version of what you were going through back then. You know, you were in a situationship because you, you didn't believe that there could be something better outside of, of whatever it is you were putting up with, and you finally got the guts to do it. And that's what she needs from you.

[Taylor]

Yeah, for sure, 100%.

[Nick]

All right, well, take care. Thank you for saying that.

[Taylor]

Yeah, you too. It was very cool to meet you.

[Nick]

All right, likewise.

[Jamie]

Bye.

[Nick]

Bye.

[Lauren]

Bye.

[Nick]

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[Jamie]

I'm Jamie. I'm 26 and I needed some advice because I've been ghosted the day of my last four first dates.

[Nick]

Okay, well, I'm sorry, that sucks. How are you going about setting these dates?

[Jamie]

They're all online. Like meeting on either like Hinge or Bumble or anything like that. Like online dates.

[Nick]

All right, and how fast are you setting these dates?

[Jamie]

I'm trying to set them within the first five days to a week, but sometimes they're pushed to two weeks just because of timing. We can't meet up until two weeks. But I'm trying to get more like.

[Nick]

How much conversation, like, you know, are you, are you texting for three days or are you doing, you know, like, how much do you know about, if anything before you're like, hey, like, do you want to get a drink or something like that?

[Jamie]

I'm like, we're texting enough to get to know each other to see if the vibes are good, see if we can actually have a conversation that lows. Because one of the biggest problems is actually finding someone who can hold a conversation or who wants to hold a conversation. And so when I actually do, I try to talk to them enough to see if I can hold a conversation with them in public and if they can actually hold a conversation with me as well. I feel like that's the biggest problem lately.

[Nick]

What other patterns, if any of you notice with these. With these dates or these potential dates rather, other than they.

[Jamie]

Most of them. Yeah, most of them. I'm honestly not sure if it's like a catfish situation or anything like that because they're the ones like asking to go on the date. And then we create a time, we actually plan it same day. And then literally the day of, I'll go in in the morning to like confirm, hey, we still good for tonight? And most of the time find out that they unmatched or they're. They blocked or whatever. So my text messages aren't going through or anything like that. So it's like, they're. They're. I know your definition of ghosting is you need to be talking for a while, but they're just like. Yeah, they're just like, cut off communication. The day of that, we're supposed to go out when they asked me to go.

[Nick]

That's weird. That's very specific. Yeah, it's weird.

[Jamie]

And it's happened.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Four times past. Four times I tried to plan a first date.

[Nick]

Do you think your pictures are. They're up to date and accurate?

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Jamie]

Yeah. If I go on a trip or anything like that, I tend to at least swap out one or the other so I have up to date current pictures.

[Nick]

Okay. God, I don't know. That's weird. Like, again, it's. It's one thing if you were like, oh, you know, just like bad luck where you're like, hey, are we still on for the night? And then they're like, oh, sorry, something came up. Blah, blah, blah. And then like, you know, you just kind of, you know. But, like, all four were unmatched or blocked on the dating apps and what you. That's weird. It's very weird.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

The first one, I hadn't messaged in the morning because I just had slipped my mind. I was busy. So as I was already driving to the date, I was. I was at a stoplight. I quickly went to open the app, and I noticed that it was deleted. And I was like, okay, well, we're following each other on Instagram. Maybe you just deleted that. I didn't have a chance to look that up, but by the time I got to the restaurant, I realized it was closed that day. So I went to message, and then again, everything was blocked. But, like, that was the worst one. I actually went to the date. The other ones I realized I messaged in the morning, they just didn't respond. So I just didn't end up going.

[Nick]

That's so weird.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay. Like, let's forget about these four dates. Like, what about prior to these four dates? Like, what? You know, I mean, obviously, dating app dates are a mess and full of disappointment. But, like, was this very specific issue not happening?

[Jamie]

Yeah, no, that's never happened before the last four. So I don't know if I'm just picking wrong right now or what's going on.

[Nick]

I mean, it's super weird.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Because it's not. Like, again, it's not like a blow Off. It's like a. It's a very abrupt thing.

[Jamie]

I. I've never actually had, like, a full, serious relationship. And so I'm also just trying to get advice on, like, apparently my picker is wrong because I'm picking wrong guys or I'm picking guys that I can't go on more than a few dates with. And so I'd love to just get advice on, like, how to progress a relationship without having to put so much pressure on it, because I feel like I just put pressure on myself, and then I put pressure on the idea of dating. And so I just want to be able to go into it, have some fun, and not have to worry about, like, eventually becoming a relationship.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, you know, tell you not to worry, period. I mean, it's just like, obviously, you know, the things we want, the things we care most about, the things we care most about, we worry about. And then, you know, it's hard to say. Don't get committed to the outcome, because that's what dating is all about, you know? Have you tried, like, what about friend groups or just, like, how active is your social life?

[Jamie]

I don't go out to bars and stuff like that. I'm not like a club party person. I like going out with my friends to dinners and things like that. And I play sports outside with some. Like, some of my brothers and his friends.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Honestly, I've known them since I was young. Nothing is happening there. But I do go out and, like, meet other people, but I'm typically with my smaller group of girlfriends.

[Nick]

Okay. But, you know, like, in. Yeah, I don't know. Like, none of those situations are presenting chances to meet people.

[Jamie]

Not that I'm aware of. I'm. I feel like I'm very much. I don't pick up on if someone likes me or, like, I might like them, but I don't. I'm not aware if they like me, if that makes sense. Like, I don't know if I have that. And so I'm also, like, too nervous to be able to go up to someone, I feel, like, in public and ask them. I feel like I want someone to make the movement on me because I. Obviously, I don't want to be rejected like most people do. And so I feel like that's also maybe something that's holding me back that I would potentially be able to do for myself if I had the nerves to actually go up to someone in public.

[Nick]

Yeah. I mean, no one's. I mean, no one's really. I mean, fair few people are good at that. I was never good at that. I would always. I mean, I would chick it out 10, nine times out of 10, you know.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

In life, I don't want to be like, oh, just keep on trying. I mean. But I. You know, part of it is just. I think you just had some bad luck with these past four. Weird, weird situation. I mean, honestly, there. It's giving that the only reason I asked if your photos are up to date because the way they responded to you is giving. Like, they thought you were catfishing them.

[Jamie]

I gave them my Instagram. A couple of them didn't have Instagrams, which I did find a red flag. But I feel like a lot of guys, even guys that I point out with in the past, for whatever reason, a lot of guys lately keep saying they don't have Instagram or they don't have this, so I can't, like, double check that. I try to go for, like, the verified profile, so I know that they at least verified on the.

[Nick]

Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I'm just. I don't think that's what's happening. I just think it's. It's weird. And the fact that it's weird, I just. I guess I can only say it's just probably bad luck because it's such an extreme. It's. It's like. It's not normal behavior. If you were just telling me. Yeah, dude, this kind of flake. These aren't. These aren't flakes. These are. This is weird behavior to, like, go out of their way to unmatch or block someone that they haven't even met. It's just like, you know, just. It's odd, so.

[Jamie]

And it came out of nowhere. It feels like this conversation was flowing really, really well, especially the last one. I think out of the four, it was the most flow of a conversation that I've had with someone for a while. And we were literally talking up until the night before. I confirmed the night before. That's when we actually planned the place that we were going, the time that we were going. And the next morning, it was just gone. Like, ghosted.

[Nick]

That sucks, man. It's. Sorry. It must be discouraging.

[Jamie]

It definitely is.

[Nick]

Do you feel like you're your best self these days?

[Jamie]

I think so. I. I think I'm. I'm definitely working on myself.

[Nick]

We all are. But I mean, I just. Are you generally in, like, a good, good place for yourself and generally, like, just, you know, you feel like you're generally taking good care of yourself? Yeah, just like, you're generally just other than maybe. Yeah, the frustrating dating part. But, like, you know, I only ask because, like, maybe you're just like, you know, sometimes with dating and just. We get so caught up and we're. We're not. We don't take care of ourselves or. Or whatever. But what about the dates you, you know, I know you mentioned general dating, but, like, tell me about the dates that you've been on in the past.

[Jamie]

Most of them have been, like, dinner dates. So I like having. Being able to have a conversation with someone and see if we can get along because I'm normally quite shy and a bit awkward on first dates. I wanted. I want someone to be able to sit across the table from me and make me feel comfortable and me to them as well as I feel like that's a really good indicator of that. And the past couple, the last one, we went out a couple of times, he was a little bit flaky. And when I decided, I was like, you're not putting in enough effort. Then he was like, no, no, no. I thought you were busy and you're just coming up with all these excuses about why he was then going to come back. And I was like, no, that's okay. Let's just move on. And then. Kind of similar vibes to the ones before. It was just either I wasn't vibing with them or they weren't vibing with me. None of them were ghosted. It was either after a first or second date. We reached out. We either I said I wasn't interested anymore or they said they weren't interested anymore.

[Nick]

Okay, well, so just to clarify, you've had opportunities to reject people?

[Jamie]

Yes.

[Nick]

Okay, well, maybe it's just seven. You're 26.

[Jamie]

26, yes.

[Nick]

You're still pretty young, you know, so, you know, because you kind of gave the vibe. It's just like, you know, it started with how I've been, you know, I'm getting ghosted four times in a row. And then you were like, you know, I can't get to a. I don't think he said second or third date. Yeah, but the, you know, it's great to know that you, you, you know, because I meet a lot of people where it's just like, they're just so concerned of being validated and people liking them that, like, they, you know, they have fallen in love with people over a dating app. It's like, I think they're hot. You know, I like what they said on a text message. And then once they decide that they, this person that they're dating has some characteristics that they like. They. They just immediately want that person to like them. Right. And they lose themselves in constantly needing validation. But like the fact that you are going on dates and, well, you know, I don't know what the ratio is. It doesn't really matter. But like some of those you get rejected or, you know, they're not interested or. And some of those you're. You're not interested just tells me that like, you know, it just hasn't happened for you yet, you know, and it.

[Jamie]

I feel like they are few and far between as well. In terms of like I was mentioning at the beginning, like some. It's hard to get someone to just start a conversation. Even now on dating apps. Especially like, I don't, I don't get why people match and then don't even want to have a conversation and they just leave the match sitting there and.

[Nick]

Not even like, because people like playing hot or not. You know, because dating apps have become like a video game and it's just kind of something to do when they're on the toilet or like killing time. It just is. And then like actually engaging with strangers is a whole nother thing. You know, it's easy to swipe left or right. That takes no thought. And that's a, it's a, it's a. Again, it's literally like a validation video game, you know, because when you're on the app and you're swiping and you get that match it, the stimulation there, you know, it's fun.

[Jamie]

I do feel like I have that people pleaser mentality in terms of I do want that validation and I want someone to like me as well. But I feel like I also get the ick very easily, which I don't think I would have in the end gone out with them anyways. But I, or even sometimes when I'm talking to someone for a while, I could get the smallest thing and get the ick. And I'm trying really, really hard to stop doing that and to letting it like just like maybe small things, maybe what they said or how they said it or something like that. And I'm trying to put that aside to like get to know the person other than something silly like that.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, that's pretty normal, you know, So I don't know, I feel like I'm not being very helpful other than like, listen, call me back if, if four more times you. This behavior happens. I don't know. We'll try to figure something out. But I think this is this dumb luck with this behavior. Is it all the same app?

[Jamie]

I think it was dispersed between the two hinge and bumblebee.

[Nick]

Weird. Weird. It's weird.

[Jamie]

Do you have any advice on, like, how to, like, engage someone in a conversation to actually start talking, at least, like, any good opening lines or anything like that? I've tried.

[Nick]

I like asking questions. Yeah, I like asking questions. You know, ask a question about a picture in their profile or in their bio. It just gets the conversation started. It makes it easy for that person to respond. You know, hi is not a question. It's hi, hi back. What's up? I guess is a question. But, like, nothing, I guess. I don't know. You know, they post a picture on a trip. Oh, like, when was the last time? Oh, that was a beautiful place. Should I go? I don't know. Just. It doesn't have to be, you know, just get. Make it easy for people to respond so that if they do want to respond, it gets the conversation going. I'm always been a big believer in, like, zoom dates. And maybe in this case you could try that out because, like, it allows you to see each other. See if you guys are, like, into each other. See if you guys match up with the pictures you guys posted online. You can definitely get a vibe check. I think dinner's a lot for a first date, Especially if you met that person on that. You know, it's a lot of pressure.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

I've thought about doing drinks and coffee and stuff like that, but a lot of times they suggest dinner.

[Nick]

I think it's kind of a red flag. Weird. Kind of? I mean, yeah. Like, it's a whole meal of food with a stranger.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but I think most people online dating, dinner seems like a pretty heavy thing. It's weird that it's a weird.

[Jamie]

Definitely been times.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

When I've been out there and I'm like, can we just. Can we get this over with? And we're still, like, eating our meal, our main meal or whatever. And I'm like, I'm not feeling it. I just want to leave. But it's also kind of awkward if you're already just sitting there and you just. Maybe you both feel like it's. It's not working and whatever.

[Nick]

Here's one bit of advice. Just because it suggests dinner doesn't mean you have to say agree. You can be like, you know what? I'd rather like. I'm more of a Drinks, girly on the first date. Dinner's a little too much for me, you know, for a stranger. Men like to be called out. Men like people. Women who are. Can set a boundary, you know, and so just because they say one thing doesn't mean you have to go along with it.

[Jamie]

I tend to suggest like mini golf and stuff like that because I feel like it's fun. You can go play and then we. There's like a bar or anything close by. You can go sit, have a drink, have an appetizer, anything like that. If you're enjoying yourself in the mini golf.

[Nick]

Totally. That's definitely not a bad idea. But even something as basic as a coffee or a drink is fine too. But. Or, or like a zoom date and a mini golf or something. But you know, I'm. I definitely just remember these are all strangers, which is why, like, yeah, we are not a society that's gotten better at interacting with strangers. We are worse, you know, because the Internet has allowed us to like, communicate in ways that we would know we wouldn't otherwise communicate person to person. And then we don't know how to. To translate it into a face to face conversation. So sadly. That's great.

[Jamie]

Yeah, I feel like that's why. Sorry. I feel like that's why online dating works for me. Just because, again, I am shy in person. I wouldn't go up to someone. So online gives me the opportunity to meet someone and talk and get a little bit of a rapport to get comfortable with someone to then meet them in person. And I feel like I'm more comfortable because you know them just like the tiniest bit more. Because, like going up to someone, I can't have a conversation with just anyone. I feel like I need to know you a little bit to have especially small talk. Small talk isn't my thing. And so for me to be able to go on a date, I feel like texting with someone on an online dating app is easier for me to be able to be myself more on a date and not be as nervous.

[Nick]

I hear you, but that's something you need to work on. Yeah. Because it's hard to get to know someone over text. And I do think maybe try to incorporate like a FaceTime date or a zoom date if you don't want to give out your number. And maybe that could be the bridge between like just getting to know someone on a more intimate level than text because like, you know, you know, you don't really. You don't even know if it's them. It could Be their friend, helping them out.

[Jamie]

Yeah, that same thing like phone calls and zooms obviously make me, make me a little bit nervous again, talking to someone I don't know. And I'm just awkward in terms of I don't know when to end the conversation. Sometimes people just let it drag on.

[Nick]

It's good practice though, you know, and it's, it's better practice on FaceTime or Zoom than at dinner. And you can get more reps in on. On Zoom and that's just something you need to work on. You just need to work on it because it's definitely. You're not going to get better by not doing.

[Jamie]

I feel like I have improved a lot as I was growing up. I was very, very shy. I didn't really go out with anybody. I had my small group of friends and my family that I was close with. I've grown up. I've become a bit more of an extrovert. I'm still an introvert in my own ways, but I'm slowly growing and improving and I'm still obviously growing and improving to try to be more of that extrovert growing and learning how to put myself out there a bit more to open myself up to more of these opportunities.

[Nick]

That's great. I mean, I just keep doing that, getting those reps in. You're only 26. I think taking breaks are really important when it comes to dating. You know, if you're on the dating apps a lot, you feel fatigued. You know, get off the dating apps and then focus more on yourself and taking care of yourself and your friends and get out there and like, just be out in life and then check back in with the dating apps. But again, you're only 26. But like, try to work on some of those things that you can identify are our weaknesses. They're not. You're not going to get better at them by, by not doing. And it's a lot, it's a lot easier just to talk on FaceTime. And that will help you on actual dates.

[Jamie]

Yes.

[Nick]

And the good thing about FaceTime is it's so low stakes. You can practice getting off calls, you can practice ending dates. You can literally do. You should do more FaceTime dates with guys you're not interested in. You don't even care about. It's just practice, honestly. Okay, yeah, maybe do Zoom so you're not giving out your number to people you don't want to waste your time with. But yeah, some people are going to find the Zoom date weird because no one does it. And Just like an idea I had that I think it's great. No, everyone thinks it's weird, but it's definitely will help you practice.

[Jamie]

Yeah, it'll be another green flag at least if someone is willing to do that and respect the privacy of not giving out a phone number or anything like that as well.

[Nick]

100. Yeah. All right, well, I don't know. Was this helpful at all?

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Jamie]

It's good to talk it out.

[Nick]

All right, well, yeah, try not to get in your head about the past four times. I don't have an explanation for it. It sounds like just bad luck and I, I, you know, like, listen, like at the. It's a mess out there and. Yeah, I would, you know, try not, you know, other than that. Just keep doing what you're doing and, and try to challenge yourself to, to practice the things you can identify as the things that you're not good at. And. Yeah, just, just always, you know, get out there and put yourself out there. Be your best self. Take breaks. People don't take enough breaks from dating.

[Jamie]

Yeah. Anyway, thank you for your help, Nick. I appreciate it.

[Nick]

I appreciate the call. Best of luck and keep me posted. I'd love to know if you've, you know, how things are going in the future and, and if you're able to make some progress or, you know, if nothing else, I'd love to know that, like there's not a fifth, sixth or seventh time that this happens.

[Jamie]

Yeah, we'll do.

[Lauren]

Thanks.

[Nick]

All right, take care.

[Jamie]

Bye.

[Natalie]

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[Nick]

How's it going?

[Lauren]

Great, thanks. How are you?

[Nick]

Good. What's your name?

[Lauren]

I'm Lauren.

[Nick]

How old are you, Lauren?

[Lauren]

I'm 35.

[Nick]

How can I help?

[Lauren]

I'm calling because I was recently dating somebody who ruined my birthday and shared that he was HSV positive after the first time we were intimate.

[Nick]

Is that herpes?

[Lauren]

Yes.

[Nick]

Okay. Did he ruin your birthday because you found out he had herpes after you're intimate or was there something else that going. Going on?

[Lauren]

So there's a whole, whole story with this. So I'd like to kind of tell the story and then you can give me your feedback, if that's okay.

[Nick]

Sure.

[Lauren]

Okay. So to just to preface, I've been on, you know, dating apps for the past few years. Haven't really had the best success, unfortunately. One of the reasons that this specific match I was unsure about and wasn't going to give a try is because he's a doctor. My previous serious relationship was a doctor. So to start off, we started talking in September. I kind of blew him off and was talking to other people. He really pursued me. Reached out to me right after Christmas and said, you know, I'd really love to take you out on a date. Here's some information about me. I'm a pediatrician. Here are all my credentials. Like, just so you don't think I'm some sort of creep. And I'm like, like, okay, well, we love somebody that is eager. So I was like, why not? Let's go on a date? So he took me on a coffee date. We had a lovely first date. We walked around. I live in New England. So we, we had a nice walk around the seacoast area for our first date, had coffee. I reached out to him after our first coffee date and just said, thank you so much. Really enjoy my time with you. Hope to hope to see you again. So I hadn't heard from him for about a week. I didn't really think much of it because that's just dating these days. And then the second date he planned, he ended up reaching out to me. A week later, he's like, hey, Lauren, I'm so sorry. Crazy week with work, but I'd love to take you out this weekend if you're around. I have this great spot in town that I'd like to make a reservation for us. So we went out for our second date. He. We had a lovely second date. Had lunch together, and then he invited me over to his home after because he has two bernadoodles. I also have a bernadoodle. And he's like, let's have the. Let's let the dogs have a playdate. So the dogs had a playdate. And tell me if I'm being too long winded, but I really want to get all the details in. So we had a great second date. Brought my dog over, the dogs played. After the second date, he told me that he wanted to go hiking with the dogs the next day. He called me Sunday and said, hey. He's like, I just. I wanted to let you know. He's like, I live, you know, in a small town where everybody in my neighborhood knows me. And he said, I. Somebody happened to drive by and let my ex know that there was a white Jeep in my driveway, and she happens to drive a white Jeep, too. And it just. It created some drama. He's like, I don't want that for you right now. I just need to figure some things out. Are you okay with just being friends right now? And I was like, oh. I was like, yeah, that's totally fine. I was like, I'm kind of confused with this phone call. And he's like, listen, I just need to figure some things out. But I really enjoyed our time. Let me, like, get back to you and, like, I'll circle back when I can. I just don't want to bring drama into what I see as being a good thing. So I said, okay. So fast forward a week and a half later. Him and I had bonded over omakase. And he's like. He reached out to me a week and a half later, and he was like, I'd love to take you to an omakase dinner and reconnect.

[Nick]

So he, like, I don't know, figured out whatever drama with his ex in her Jeep or something.

[Lauren]

Yeah. And I didn't ask too many questions. I was just like, okay. He figured it out, and I just felt like it wasn't my business that soon to ask. I kind of wish I had been like, well. Well, what?

[Nick]

Like, I mean, I. I mean, it was weird. Yeah.

[Lauren]

Yeah. It was strange. And I mentioned it to my friends, and they were just like, well, it's so early in the game. Like, give it another shot if you enjoyed your dates with him. And maybe that's.

[Nick]

I'm fine with you giving another shot. I just think sometimes if something feels weird, you have the right to kind of call it out a little bit. You don't have to be like a dick about it. But a random phone call being like, hey, can I put a pause on this thing? Because, like, you and my ex drive the same car. And that, like, created weird drama. Like, why couldn't he talk to. He couldn't, like, engage with you. And then only a week goes by, and all of a sudden he' ready to pick things back up.

[Lauren]

Yeah. And I. I will. I did ask him. I said, well, was it. Did you guys just recently break up? And he said, well, it's been about a month and a half. And I said, okay. So that makes sense why she could still be a little upset if you're hanging out with somebody else. And he's like, but she knows I'm dating.

[Nick]

And why does she know he's. I mean, that's all. That's also like. I don't know. It's weird. Anyways, I just think, you know, if something feels off, like, yeah, you don't have to be a dick, but, like, you're allowed to ask questions. You can be like, yeah, it felt a little weird. I don't know, like, what? I honestly wasn't expecting you to reach out so soon because, you know, like, it wasn't even like a month. Fine, a week. Like, what, What. What prompted that phone call?

[Lauren]

Right. And then only a week goes by. It was a text. Yeah, it was a text that he had reached out and was like, I'd really like to take you back out. And I think definitely to your point, I now it's been an eye opener to ask questions in that moment and not be scared to hold back or ask what's on my mind.

[Nick]

Anyway, so you go to this dinner.

[Lauren]

So we. So we didn't go to Omakase yet. He. The weather where I live was like, horrible that weekend. But he said that him and his gym friends were going to see a. Somebody in their gym is in a band. And he invited me to go to their band and see them play at a local bar. So we went and then we went to, like, a local sushi spot with their friends. Had definitely way too much to drink. That night he invited me back to his place and that was the first night that him and I were intimate with each other. The next morning him and I were laying next to each other and he said, have you, have you been tested before? And I said, well, well yes, I'm, I'm dating and I like to, you know, make sure that I'm, you know, sleeping around safely. However, last night was a one off for me. And he said, well, same same here. And he's like, just so you know, you have nothing to worry about, but I am HSV positive. He said, I don't have any active outbreak right now, so you have nothing to worry about. He's like, I'm really careful about this, about this, especially in my profession. And I was, my heart sank when he said that I. Because I was like, no. And again, that's on me just as much as, as it is.

[Nick]

But I mean, sure, yes, you could be safer for sure.

[Lauren]

But yeah. So after that he drew. That morning he drew me a bubble bath just to give like a little bit of contact bubble bath, a hot wax massage. He was super consistent. After he called me every night, him and I worked out together at his home. He made sure I wasn't, didn't spend Valentine's Day alone. He met my brother in law and my sister. So some of my family members met him pretty quick. All, all whilst he said he wanted to take things slow because he felt a strong connection and he just didn't want things to move fast like they did with his ex because he was scared to lose me. So we said all of these things. We spent a whole nother weekend together. He's originally from Brooklyn. He said, I want you to meet some of my. I want to take you to omakase in Brooklyn. I have a great spot back home I want to take you to. We're going to go at the end of February. You'll meet my brother, you'll meet my cousins and people that I'm closest with. So I said okay, that sounds great. A week before we were leaving for New York, he said, hey. He said, call me when you get out of work. I just want to like finalize things for the trip. And I said okay. So I called him and he said, hey, I just wanted to make sure that you know, when we go to New York that I'll be introducing you like as my friend because this is still so like this is still pretty new and fresh. And I said, well, I said listen, I said why even put a label on it? I said why are we going back to. This is just friends like you're the one that reached back out to me and you've been consistently dating me. I'm just confused by that statement. And so he was like, no, like, you don't have to worry. It's just a big step for me to introduce you to like family members of mine. I said, I didn't ask to meet your family. So what's, what's the actual problem? And he, and he was like, nothing. He's like, I don't mean to be weird. He's like, I'm really excited to take you to New York. I just, I, I sometimes get cold feet with this sort of thing. And I said, well, if you're getting cold feet, maybe we shouldn't go at all. And so we hung up the phone. I was on my way home. Like I said, I have a 40 minute drive home. So I called my best friend and I said, hey, can you see if this guy happens to be on the are we dating the same guy Page in the area we live in? Because I wasn't attached to that page and sure as shit he was on that page. Posted right around Valentine's Day. And somebody was asking if there were any red flags about him. There are a couple different girls being like, he's been posted before. Somebody said, he's my kid's pediatrician. Really nice guy. Good luck to you. And then this girl was like, well, the original poster said, we just started talking. I just want to make sure I'm not wasting my time. So I called him and I asked him and just said, maybe it's just not worth us going to New York. This is what was posted. You seem to be actively dating. You told me you were off the app. And he said, he said, he got all paranoid. He said, what do you mean somebody posted about me? And I was like, I can't say too much more other than there's somebody that was asking if you were also dating somebody else. And I just feel uneasy about going to New York. If you're saying you want to introduce me as a friend, it's just not. Things aren't adding up. And he's like, I know who posted that. It's this girl that I cut ties with when you and I started. When you, when I brought you around.

[Nick]

Mrs. White Jeep.

[Lauren]

Well, that's. It wasn't her, it was somebody else. But Mrs. White Jeep comes back into the picture. So he, he was like paranoid and he's like, you're not going to comment, comment on that, right? And I said, well, well, what do you mean? Why Can't I say that I'm dating you? And he said no, it was.

[Nick]

Can we just pause for a second? I mean, I appreciate the detail, but, like, I. I think I am kind of probably getting some information that might not be relevant to helping your problem. Okay, what. But, like, let's just remind me, what are we trying to figure out here?

[Lauren]

Okay, so what we're trying to figure out here is these specific men that I end up seeing seem to essentially, I guess, pull the wool over my eyes. This specific situation kind of brought me back to a place where I finally have felt like I'm in a good place with myself and dating. And during this specific time with this guy where I thought it was going somewhere. And I guess the biggest thing is I should have dodged red flags. I guess probably hearing from the male perspective is like, you should have just been done and walked away.

[Nick]

I mean. Yeah, I mean, you told me the story where in less than, I don't know, a week or two of knowing him, he one had this bizarre phone call where he just, like, made some weird excuse how he couldn't talk to you for a period of time, which ended up only being a week, which had something to do with you driving the same car as his ex girlfriend, which was weird and, like, not that big of a deal, but it was kind of weird, followed by the fact, much more of a red flag was that, like, he was intimate with you, and then right after confessed about this diagnosis and, like, you just kind of, like, went along with it because he, like, drew you a bubble bath or something, you know? And, like. So, like, in less than two weeks, you had some. Two, like, really bizarre behaviors that you, like, on some level, you follow your instinct because you went to, like, are we dating the same guy?

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Found more information, right? Not necessarily devastating information, but more information nonetheless. So, like, there's another. And. But you keep. You keep hanging out with these people. Like, you're just like.

[Lauren]

And I still. And I still went to New York. And that's the thing, Nick. I still. I still went to New York. I still. I met his. Met his family. The ex girlfriend called during the trip, and I didn't know her name at the time. He had. I think during the whole process, he's just done. He did a good job of convincing me. But, like, you have nothing. You don't have to worry about her. I'm like, she. She reaches out to me, like, her and I.

[Nick]

It's just like, you know when some guy keeps saying, you don't have to worry about things. Like, it's probably something to worry about, right? Like, dating shouldn't be that complicated that early on, you know, dates with. With. With in these situations, like how many times you've had to go on. Are we getting the same guy?

[Lauren]

I'll just. I'll say that almost every guy that I've dated has been posted on there like, after the fact, unfortunately. Here's the thing. I. I take. Are we dating the same guy? With a grain of salt, because I feel like anybody is just going on there for sure.

[Nick]

I'm sure there' venting. But. But at the same time, like, I think it is a useful tool. I think. I think most men are good and I think there's a handful of bad apples that are habitual, you know, perpetrators that. And there's a reason why these websites do exist is because there's these guys who just like, have a pattern of this, like, toxic behavior of storytelling and using women and things like that.

[Lauren]

And I feel, though, as though that single moms can be a target. I'm a single mom. He also has children of. Of his own. And I just felt. I feel like sort of. I don't know if it's my vulnerability or.

[Nick]

But there is a. There is a pattern here of like all, like, yeah, I. I'm glad that you take it with a grain of salt and I'm glad that you are not like. But yeah, there's one thing of getting people to benefit the doubt, and then it's quite the other of. Of ignoring, like, some pretty obvious red flags. And I'm guessing the re. Like, I don't know, you seem to be drawn to that. You know, like, instead of. Instead of focusing on the fact that the guy, like, had this weird phone call, you're more excited that he called you back.

[Lauren]

Right? I think in today's dating culture, and I'm not making excuses, I think that I was finally excited that somebody was pursuing me, asking for a second day, a third day, a fourth date.

[Nick]

Do you feel like men pursue you?

[Lauren]

I do to an extent, but I also feel like they get. There's so many options online that they are so quick to be, like, onto the next one where it doesn't really turn into hanging out with each other during the week to. I also felt like with this guy, we just connected on both being parents. And, you know, I think maybe it was more of our conversations behind the scenes where I saw a lot of maybe false potential. So I was probably holding on to that more than I was looking at the Red flags, like you said. I was hoping that based on what he was telling me, it was going to turn into something. But I look like a moron, because it was only. It wasn't that long. Things were progressing quick. And also the other thing my friend had said to me, she said, what does that mean? He wants to take things slow. If he's taking you to New York the second month and meeting family, like, that's not taking things slow.

[Nick]

You are. You just. You're not. People are saying one thing and doing another, and you're not holding them accountable, and you're looking for ways to give them the excuses they want to have, you know, like, it's.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So when something feels off, check in with your friends. I don't know. And maybe get it. Don't check in with your friends who are also struggling with their dating life.

[Lauren]

Yeah, I agree.

[Nick]

Because they're not gonna help you. You have to check in with friends who don't give a shit about the outcome. They're not trying to live that kerosene through you or tell themselves it's okay. You know, like, they're seeing a guy who they hope likes them, and they're like, they're saying, oh, no, it's fine to give another chance because they want, you know, they want to give some other guy another chance.

[Lauren]

My best friend, who also is dating, certainly didn't tell me, give him another chance. She was like, I never want to meet him. I never. Like, basically.

[Nick]

And then you ignored him and.

[Lauren]

No, I. I was like, well, we'll just see how it goes.

[Nick]

Wait, that's. That's your. Been your motto. Let's see how it goes. Let's see how it goes. It's costed you a lot of wasted time and energy. It's also put you in risky situations.

[Lauren]

Yeah. At this time, it definitely put me in a risky situation. It put me in for a little bit of heartbreak. It definitely pulled on my heartstrings.

[Nick]

Like I mentioned in why did I give you heartbreak?

[Lauren]

So just because of being love bombed. And again, it didn't end right there. Like I said, we went to New York. I still went to New York. We came back, it was my birthday. He do. I'm gonna tell you the climax of it.

[Nick]

I mean, do I need to even hear it?

[Lauren]

I. I feel like the listeners do.

[Nick]

Okay, go for it.

[Lauren]

So we so go to New York. At one point, he got the phone call on his phone. It. It said the person's name. I said, hey, you have a phone call coming in. He said, oh, that was my. Our friend that just left. She was just letting us know she just got on the train. I said, no, that wasn't her, the name said. And so he. So he said, I'm so sorry. Yes, that was my ex that just called, but you have nothing to worry about, and I don't want you to worry. So we got back home. He said, I want to take you to this one spot for your birthday before I leave for my trip to go see my kids. So I met him my birthday eve to go on this dinner that he made a reservation for. We got to the reservation, and when we got in there, we went to go sit down, and I noticed his body language change. And he waved at somebody towards the bar, and he. He went over back to the door, and he said, hey, can you come here for a second? And I said, yeah, what's up? And he goes, listen. He said, that's my ex at the bar. He's like, I don't want it to be awkward for anybody. He said, can we. Can we eat somewhere else tonight? And I was like, what? And I was like, okay. So we walked out, we left. We went and ate somewhere else. His phone kept going off the whole time. He told me it's because he was on call for work. We go back to his house. He says, please come in for a glass of wine. And I said, I could drink a whole bottle of wine. Yeah, let's. Let's go. Let's chat. So we go into his house, and I said, what the hell is going on? Like, so your ex, she is in the picture. And I said, hey. I said, who stayed at your house while we stayed in New York with the dogs? And he said, dead. And I said, okay. I said, why is your ex staying and watching your dog while you're away with the new person you're seeing? And he said, I told you, we have a platonic French. And then about 20 minutes later, all of a sudden, headlights come flying in the driveway, and it's a white Jeep. And his ex shows up at the house, and the next thing you know, there's a bulk roll of paper towels being thrown at his head through the door. So after that, he's like, I'm so sorry. I'm so embarrassed. He said, she's never welcome here again.

[Nick]

Okay, let's. But, like, I mean, I think you like the story, you know? I think you like. I do. I think you like the drama. I think you like the story, and I think you are habitual, like, ignore of Red flags. I mean, there's just, like this. This story is not about him. It's about you. And I don't care about him. You know, I'll never even know who he is. I don't know what he looks like. I don't know his name. I don't remember his name. I don't give a. All I know is he's a doctor. He has herpes. But you love talking about it, and you love the story, you love the plot, and you just, like, ignore it. You know? I mean, like, this whole story is filled with obvious opportunities where you were supposed to go, no.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And you didn't. You know, and you don't.

[Lauren]

I agree.

[Nick]

And you're, you know, so moving forward.

[Lauren]

I guess my question to you is moving forward. I know that mostly it's me. I need to just. If there's a red flag, like, is it the career, the type of, like, profession that I'm going after is, or is it just that I'm only going after doctors? I'm not, but I. I've dated. I. Most. The most, like, crazy stories that have happened have been. Have been with doctors, and then, like.

[Nick]

Maybe stop dating doctors.

[Lauren]

Yeah, I've dated attorneys, pilots. Like, I. I like a smart man, but it just seems like it comes with a. And I'm very successful in my career myself. Like, I don't. I don't need a man to take care of me. It's not that. I just.

[Nick]

All right, well, if you don't, then, I mean, I. I love that you're attracted to success and successful people, but again, if you want to date doctors and lawyers or whatever, but, like, then. Then get better at listening to red flags and stop doing things for the plot and stop saying to yourself, let's see how it goes, you know, because you're right. You know, there's a lot of, you know, doctors with. With God complexes and lawyers that are live for a living and. And, you know, doesn't. You know, there's a lot of good doctors, too, and a lot of good lawyers, but, you know, again, like, there's this obvious red flags that you're ignoring.

[Lauren]

Yeah. The good. The. The good news about all of this is I went to my doctor, and thankfully, I dodged the bullet, and I did. I didn't catch anything. But. Yeah, I think that. I know that you're always right. I'm a huge fan of the show. I love you and Natalie so much. I love all of your cast, and I listen to you guys every day on my way to Work and.

[Nick]

Oh, we love that. And I appreciate that.

[Lauren]

But, like, your advice.

[Nick]

Then do me a favor and actually apply the things that you hear us talk about every. Every time.

[Lauren]

I promise. I promise.

[Nick]

Okay. Like, yeah, but, yeah, like, think of your kids. You know, like, again, you got. You're just wasting all this time and energy. Like, don't you know? Are you in therapy?

[Lauren]

I'm not currently.

[Nick]

I would maybe look into that.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Nick]

I would tackle. You know, like, there's. There's a reason why you're behaving the way you're behaving.

[Lauren]

Right. And I think it's also. I also, like, with this whole thing, when everything kind of went down, I. I definitely spiraled, which also tells me that, yeah, I should probably have a therapist, because I was like, why?

[Nick]

That's even crazier to that. You had all these red flags, and then you chose to act like a person who, like, was blindsided.

[Lauren]

I know, I know. And. And he was the one that was like, I can't. I can't talk to you anymore. And I was like, wait a second. What do you mean? Like, I didn't understand. And, yeah, I guess that. That is a reflection of my character, for sure.

[Nick]

Character being a little. Hurting herself. But maybe it's a reflection of choices you're making and. And some. And some bad habits you have developed, that's for sure.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you listening and hearing. Hearing me out.

[Nick]

Let's listen to some obvious red flags.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I bet if I had the time and we stay on the phone, I bet you could tell me five different more stories that are very similar in the fact that they are riddled with, you know, five different times where I would have been like, how did you not walk away?

[Lauren]

So would you say that in the very beginning of, like, after the second or the second date when, like, after we got our dogs together and he said, you know, we should just be friends, like, I should have cut ties then, because that's what I feel like.

[Jamie]

That's.

[Nick]

That's a weird thing. I mean, not so. I mean, it's just a weird thing to say so, like, so abruptly.

[Lauren]

I know.

[Nick]

And. Or just these. Ask questions, like, what's changed? You know, like, if people act inconsistently or weird, then you have the right to ask why don't just ignore or accept weird behavior as normal. So it's not, like, about walking away. It's just about, like, being willing to check in, you know, and not just being like, okay, I guess that's weird, but let's see where it goes. Your motto is, let's see where it goes. And that's.

[Lauren]

Well, okay. So one thing that I'd like to add is that I feel like things obviously were unfolding as. As things were progressing. For example, like, I know you said, like, well, you. You like the story. You like that there's a climax in it. You like that there's drama. I feel as though I was like, maybe where I should have cut the ties was before New York. Like, that. I feel like that was the biggest. Like you. But that's where I just keep questioning things. I'm like, was it, though. What was it? Because we all are able to date other people in the early stages, and.

[Nick]

Then after the fact that he told you he had herpes after he had sex with you and didn't think to wear a condom, and then he tried to win you over by being chivalrous.

[Lauren]

Yeah. Well, I think I just took it as him being safe afterwards, that I was like, he made a mistake because we were drinking. But why didn't. That's the biggest thing. He still was just sober enough to take me up to his room. Why couldn't that have been a conversation?

[Nick]

Yeah. And again, this. That wasn't the first weird thing he did. Yeah, again.

[Lauren]

Well, if I have. I hope that I can call back one day and be like, listen, I took everything you have said for advice, and now I have a happy story to tell you.

[Nick]

I hope so, too. But you actually have to. You're not a dumb person, that's for sure. You're obviously intelligent and, like, you're just choosing not to. I mean, quite literally, use your brain. You're just leading with emotion. You're leading, you know, again, you're doing it for the plot. You know, you're not using your common sense. No, because, like, sometimes common sense is maybe boring or something. I don't know.

[Lauren]

Maybe it just means I'd be, like, a good contestant on the Bachelor or something. Because I, like, I'm just kidding. But I'm like, does this mean, like. Because drama seem to gravitate towards that, which, again, I haven't really had any dramatic dating stories. I think recently you just told one. Well, that. But I'm saying before that, it was more like it didn't progress past the second or third date. So I think the excitement for it of, like, him pursuing me. And that's normal.

[Nick]

That's normal.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And, like. Yeah, but you just. Rather than when you get fatigued over disappointment, that doesn't give you an excuse to make bad decisions. It means this. Maybe. Take a break.

[Taylor]

Break.

[Lauren]

Take a break. But I'm 35, Nick. I need to find my soulmate.

[Nick]

You have a child. You know, it's like I. You know, I shouldn't tell you, but, like, I don't know. That's not an excuse to make bad decisions.

[Lauren]

True.

[Nick]

You got plenty of time.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Nick]

All right.

[Lauren]

Thank you. I appreciate you.

[Nick]

All right. Take care. Thank you for listening. Thank you for the call. Make better decisions.

[Lauren]

Okay. Thank you.

[Nick]

Take care.

[Lauren]

All right, bye.

[Nick]

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[Lauren]

There's always a trade in.

[Nick]

Not right now. @ T Mobile. I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma. That's okay.

[Lauren]

I don't really have much in my purse.

[Nick]

Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer.

[Jamie]

It's lavender.

[Nick]

I'm good. Seriously. Let me check this pocket.

[Jamie]

Oh, mints.

[Nick]

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