E974 - JaNa and Kenny Breakup, Bachelor In Paradise w/ Jonathon, RHOM w/ Guerdy Abraira, and RHOC

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Viall Files - Episode E974

Title: JaNa and Kenny Breakup, Bachelor In Paradise w/ Jonathan, RHOM w/ Gertie Abraira, and RHOC
Release Date: July 29, 2025
Host: Nick Viall
Co-hosts: Natalie Viall and the Household

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1. Introduction

In Episode E974 of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall, alongside his wife Natalie and the Household, delves deep into the latest happenings in the reality TV universe. The episode navigates through the recent breakup of JaNa and Kenny from Love Island Season 6, insights from Jonathan Johnson of Bachelor in Paradise, and explosive revelations from Gertie Abraira of The Real Housewives of Miami (RHOM). The conversation is rich with personal anecdotes, behind-the-scenes insights, and candid discussions about the intricacies of reality television and personal relationships.

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2. Personal Health Update

[01:01] Nick Viall:
Nick opens the episode by sharing his recent bout with severe illness, potentially food poisoning, which left him bedridden and physically drained. He humorously attributes his feeling to "manifesting the flu," sparking a light-hearted exchange with Natalie.

Notable Quote:
"I manifested the flu." — Nick Viall [01:01]

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3. JaNa and Kenny's Breakup

The primary focus of the episode is the sudden breakup of JaNa and Kenny from Love Island Season 6. Listeners are updated on the timeline of events leading to their separation, including their appearance at David Dobrik's birthday party prior to the split.

Key Points:

• Breakup Confirmation: Reports from TMZ and The Streets confirm JaNa and Kenny have ended their relationship.
• Social Media Signals: JaNa and Kenny both unfollowed each other on social platforms, alongside mutual friends Miguel and Cordell.
• David Dobrik's Party: The couple was seen enjoying themselves at the party the night before the breakup rumors surfaced.

Notable Quotes:
"We have to pull over. Where do you... we're on the highway." — Listener [02:46]
"It's a clear reaction...make moves now." — Nick Viall [09:08]

Discussion Highlights:

• Speculations on Reasons: The hosts discuss potential reasons for the breakup, considering the pressures of fame and the reality TV environment.
• Impact on Brand Deals: There's speculation that JaNa might benefit from increased brand opportunities post-breakup, drawing parallels to other reality TV stars who have gained from public splits.
• Desire for Privacy and Humanity: Emphasis on treating the individuals involved with respect, acknowledging their humanity amidst public scrutiny.

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4. Bachelor In Paradise with Jonathan Johnson

Jonathan Johnson, a contestant from Bachelor In Paradise, joins the conversation to discuss his experiences and recent controversies on the show.

Key Points:

• Handling Conversations: Jonathan elaborates on a specific incident involving accusations against Dale, another contestant, and how he chose to address it by informing Kat.
• Bro Code vs. Loyalty: He emphasizes his loyalty to Kat over the so-called "bro code" with Dale, showcasing his ethical stance.
• Jonathon's Struggles: Jonathan shares his challenges in finding genuine connections on the show, reflecting on the competitive and often superficial nature of reality dating shows.

Notable Quotes:
"I was like, do I need to go check on him?" — Nick Viall [02:20]
"My loyalty is to her in this situation." — Jonathan Johnson [24:02]

Discussion Highlights:

• Ethical Dilemmas on Reality TV: Jonathan discusses the moral complexities contestants face, balancing friendships and romantic pursuits.
• Editing and Portrayals: He touches upon how editing can skew viewers' perceptions of events and intentions.
• Advice for Contestants: Emphasizes the importance of honesty and direct communication to maintain integrity both on and off-camera.

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5. Real Housewives of Miami with Gertie Abraira

Gertie Abraira from The Real Housewives of Miami shares her controversial "Celebration of Life" party where she exposed "receipts" — screenshots of text conversations highlighting conflicts within the cast.

Key Points:

• Motivation Behind "Going Deeper": Gertie explains her desire to confront perceived betrayals and defend her integrity by publicly airing conversations that painted her in a negative light.
• Impact on Relationships: The airing of these receipts has strained relationships within the cast, particularly with Julia, leading to public confrontations and ongoing drama.
• Personal Struggles: Gertie candidly discusses her emotional turmoil, past traumas, and the impetus behind her drastic actions at the party.

Notable Quotes:
"The whole thing was about feeling neglected and not being seen." — Natalie Viall [85:12]
"She wanted to make everything about her. But I'm here doing the same thing." — Gertie Abraira [78:07]

Discussion Highlights:

• Authenticity vs. Performance: The conversation delves into whether Gertie's actions were genuine responses to mistreatment or staged drama for television.
• Confusion and Clarity: Natalie shares her perspective on feeling unheard and the internal battle that led to her decision to expose the conversations.
• Consequences of Exposure: The hosts and guests discuss the fallout from airing private messages, debating the ethics and repercussions of such actions in a reality TV setting.

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6. Rapid Recaps and Additional Drama

The episode includes rapid recaps of recent episodes from other reality shows, highlighting key moments and ongoing tensions:

• Real Housewives of Orange County (RHOC):
  • Jen's Student Loans: Discussions about Jen's alleged plans to have her husband Ryan handle her student loans through military service, raising concerns about potential scams.
  • Heather Dubrow's Birthday Party: Recap of the extravagant party, interpersonal conflicts, and Jen's confrontation with Heather.
  • Tamara's Therapy and Conflicts: Insights into Tamara's ongoing struggles and her antagonistic relationship with other cast members.

Notable Quotes:
"Ryan did make a point too, saying that he wished that the father was more hands-on." — Guest/Listener [95:07]
"Jen's reaction at that restaurant to Heather was warranted." — Listener [97:16]

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7. Advertisements and Promotions

Throughout the episode, there are brief segments promoting various products and upcoming shows:

• T-Mobile Family Freedom Offer:

  • "We'll pay off four phones up to $3200 and give you four free phones all on America's largest 5G network."
  • Timestamp: [00:00], [21:43]

• Sundays for Dogs:

  • "Get 40% off your first order of Sundays. Go to SundaysForDogs.com/Viall to use code Viall at checkout."
  • Timestamp: [59:26]

• Nanit Baby Monitor:

  • "Get 20% off your first order with code BABY20. That's B-A-B-Y20 Nanit.com."
  • Timestamp: [60:29]

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8. Conclusion

Nick and Natalie wrap up the episode by thanking their guests, Jonathan Johnson and Gertie Abraira, for providing in-depth insights into the ongoing dramas of Bachelor in Paradise and The Real Housewives of Miami. They encourage listeners to tune in to future episodes for more updates and engaging discussions on the intersecting worlds of reality TV and personal relationships.

Notable Quote:
"Thank you to our guests, Jonathan Johnson and Gertie Abraira. We appreciate you both coming on and appreciate you guys listening." — Nick Viall [90:17]

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Final Thoughts

Episode E974 of The Viall Files offers a comprehensive look into recent splits and controversies within popular reality TV shows. With heartfelt personal stories and critical discussions on authenticity and integrity in the reality TV landscape, Nick and Natalie provide listeners with both entertainment and thoughtful analysis. Whether you're a fan of Love Island, Bachelor in Paradise, or the Real Housewives franchise, this episode delivers valuable insights and keeps you abreast of all the latest drama and developments.

Transcript

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[Nick Viall]

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[Natalie Viall]

You're crazy.

[Nick Viall]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap edition. I am your host, Nick, joined by my beautiful wife Natalie. And I am happy to report I, I, well, I'm happy to report I'm feeling better. I manifested the flu.

[Guest/Listener]

I don't.

[Listener]

It wasn't the flu.

[Nick Viall]

I had. I don't know either. I had food poisoning. I don't know. You have last week. I'm talking about wearing sweatpants, how it makes me feel like I have the flu. And literally was it a day later, two days later, I don't know. I was up all night puking my guts out, shivering and like the sweats. And by sweats, I mean, like, I was just, my body was soaked in sweat. I felt terrible. I was out for the count on Friday. It was, it sucked.

[Listener]

Yeah, it was, it was pretty brutal. So it like started with me, right? I first we're in the car going somewhere and I'm like, oh my God. Like, like. And I, and I typically am one to get like, car sick. It's very on brand for me.

[Nick Viall]

Nelly can be a little, little, little nauseous Nellie, you know, so sometimes we don't take her nausea.

[Listener]

I'm a nauseous Nelly that seriously.

[Nick Viall]

Sometimes it's like, oh, you know, like we don't really clock it, you know, we're not like, oh, stomach flu.

[Listener]

Right, Right. So Nick's driving. Ugh, you know, already nauseous at the thought of it. You know what I'm saying? And, and he's also on like a phone call through the car, right? So he's like, hands free, but. And, like, if you ever heard Nick on a phone call, I mean, God bless you. You know what I'm saying? And so I'm in the car, he's driving. You know how he drives. He's on the phone. I'm nauseous.

[Nick Viall]

How I talk, how I drive, how I.

[Listener]

And I'm like, oh, no. I don't feel very good. Like, I think. Nope. Yep, I'm gonna puke. I'm, like, looking around the car, I'm like, what is there? Oh, there's a towel from when we took the dogs to the dog park. So I grabbed the towel from the back seat, and I just start puking into the towel. Next. He's like, I gotta go, I gotta go.

[Guest/Listener]

I gotta.

[Listener]

He's like, we have to pull over. Where do you. We're on the highway and, like, where the Are you gonna pull over? Like, what is happening? He pulls off on the shoulder, open up the car door, continue to puke. We get home, and I'm like, okay, I feel, like, a little bit better. You know, I got all. I didn't even have anything in my system. I was just throwing up. Like, nothing, you know, because I hadn't eaten breakfast or anything. So then I was throwing a bile vial.

[Natalie Viall]

Vile by vial.

[Nick Viall]

Literally. Tough start of an episode for me.

[Natalie Viall]

Yeah.

[Listener]

No, no, no. But it gets better, okay? It gets better. You know, my best friend Chambliss was in town, and it was her last night with us. And so Nick was like, oh, like, I'm gonn. You know, like a good supper because it's your last night with us. So he does, like, steak. He does homemade mashed potatoes. He does broccoli. Like, he goes all out, and we're sitting eating, and then Nick's like, oh, like, really? And he's like, yeah. So then he, like, gets up very quietly. Like, doesn't make it a big fuss or anything, you know, And I'm like, do I need to go check on him? So I go back there, he's like, do not go in there. Like, oh, no. Like, what happened?

[Nick Viall]

I missed.

[Guest/Listener]

He missed the toilet.

[Listener]

Like, how did you miss.

[Nick Viall]

I missed half the toilet. Well, I. I. So back in my track days, I just threw up a lot. So, like, I just. I'm not afraid of that, of the sensation of puking. Like, don't love it. I'm not saying I enjoy it, but, like, you know, most people are just, like, aren't used to it. They'll, like, suffer through that thick stomach pain until there's. I just go. And I just go for it. Anyways, I went. I threw up. There was a second immediate wave I was not expecting. So as my head went up, puke came out, and I split the difference of the toilet, and it splashed all over the place.

[Listener]

Awful, guys. Awful. Awful. He comes out of the bathroom to, like, get something to clean it with, and Chambless is like, it's on his pants.

[Nick Viall]

It was on my slippers. It was on my pants. Awful.

[Listener]

Then. So while he's back there cleaning it up, Jeff, our dog, starts gagging. We're like, wait, no. So then Jeff throws up. Chalmers is like, I have to get the fuck out of here. I don't know what is going on.

[Nick Viall]

That was kind of crazy.

[Listener]

Like, Jeff's puking, I'm puking, Nick's puking crazy.

[Nick Viall]

This all happened within five minutes, literally.

[Listener]

Oh, my God.

So Nick's like, I have to go lay down. River is still, like, very much present in our lives during this time. And we're like. She's just like. Neither of us can really go up to her room and, like, rock her for 30 minutes, like, get her to go to sleep. So we're like, we'll just let her sleep in our bed, like, whatever. So she sleeps with us, and then we wake up.

[Nick Viall]

This is Natalie.

[Natalie Viall]

I'm suffering.

[Listener]

Yeah. I don't know how your night went.

[Nick Viall]

Because my night was terrible.

[Listener]

I couldn't talk to him because river was, like, right next to me, so if I talked, it would wake her up. So I just kept seeing him get out of the bed constantly, and I was like, hope he's okay.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, I just suffered by myself. I made no fuss. I just got up and threw up multiple times.

[Listener]

Had shivers, which is so the complete opposite of me. I remember when I was pregnant with river and I was throwing up all the time, I would be like, help. Like, screaming from the bathroom floor to, like, come in and help me and, like, hold my hair back. And Nick just puking and puked and rallied.

[Guest/Listener]

Was this the first time that you both were sick, having a River?

[Nick Viall]

It was actually. I said, yeah. Is this the first time we've ever been sick together?

[Listener]

Yeah. And it's definitely different being sick together. Yeah.

[Guest/Listener]

Like, do you. Were you guys just kind of, like, taking turns with whatever, like, having to put her down for a nap or is like, who's struggling less at the moment?

[Listener]

It was like, whoever in that moment.

[Guest/Listener]

Paper, scissors.

[Listener]

Literally, whoever in that moment isn't going to throw up.

I don't know what Chambly is doing in all this.

Well, she left. She left Friday. She left that night.

[Guest/Listener]

Did she change her flight?

[Listener]

Projectile vomit.

[Guest/Listener]

Look, there's an opening tonight.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, we're all fine now. River's fine. We're fine.

[Listener]

But it was definitely like.

[Nick Viall]

I mean, don't wear sweatpants. Yeah, it'll get you.

[Listener]

But then the next day, Nick wore sweatshirts.

Oh.

Oh, my God.

[Guest/Listener]

Double whammy.

[Listener]

The two things he.

You were hates.

[Guest/Listener]

He was really feeling not too great.

[Listener]

Yeah.

[Guest/Listener]

Not like himself.

[Listener]

Well, all my DMS are like, oh, my God, I've never seen his legs. Literally.

[Guest/Listener]

I don't know if I have either.

[Natalie Viall]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

What do they think of my legs?

[Listener]

A lot of people are comparing you to Justin Bieber.

[Nick Viall]

Well, I think Justin's doing fine. He's making music, he's dropping albums. Like, enough about me. Sierra, there's been a breakup in the reality TV universe. Is. Has there not? I mean, what's. This is like breaking news as of yesterday as Leia. Are you okay? I don't know if I'm okay, to be honest. Like this. We. We were all. This was a friend of show like Kenny.

[Guest/Listener]

According to the Streets, Janae and Kenny have broken up.

[Nick Viall]

And tmz. Tmz first to report this breakup.

[Listener]

Our trust seal steed of tmz.

[Nick Viall]

The Streets did get into it.

[Guest/Listener]

Yes. No. People started noticing that Janae unfollowed Kenny shortly thereafter, PPG has unfollowed, and I believe Miguel and Cordell have also unfollowed Kenny. But what we don't understand is what happened from the night prior where Kenny and Janay were at David Dobrik's birthday party and they were clearly having a nice time, drinking, dancing. And then the next day, this is. This is what we woke up to.

[Listener]

I blame David Dobrik.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. Now, for those of you who haven't been to a David Dobrik party, it is. It is a influencer smorgasbord.

[Listener]

Oh, yeah.

[Nick Viall]

It is. Anyone who is in the influencing world in la, anyone who maybe just got off the plane or people who've been there for years, it is. It is like the.

[Listener]

It is the new year micro influencer to macro.

[Nick Viall]

It is influencer. David brings them all. Everyone's like, oh, it's David Dobrik. We're all fans of him. We were kids. And it's. He's got a very fascinating house.

[Listener]

But yeah, I mean, I wonder if we're going to. I feel like we need, like, do we need to Call Janae immediately.

[Guest/Listener]

We need to call Janae. And in the meantime, I will be stalking her tiktoks for any passive aggressive trending sound.

[Nick Viall]

Passive aggressive. There's been so far, super aggressive. So far, there's been zero. Chill here. Again, like this. This. This couple went into the weekend together. They went to this party together. There's footage of them at this party together, looking fine. The next day, the entire cast and friend group, including his boys, have unfollowed him. There's no, like, let's just wait and see the dust settling, anything like that. There is a clear, like, make moves now. I don't know who confirmed the breakup, but it wasn't. Like, we're not confirming anything yet.

[Listener]

Like, yeah, I wonder who. Did TMZ just say? Like, a source confirms? I doubt they'd be like, Jana confirms.

[Nick Viall]

Do they pick up the cameras? Like, I don't think they're clearly done.

[Listener]

I mean, we definitely need a season two now.

[Nick Viall]

Any chance? Any chance. And I. I hate to even speculate that this is all for the show.

[Listener]

I don't think so. I feel like. Because remember when this super teaser came out and Jana was, like, kind of pissed that they had, like, cut something together to make it seem like her and Kenny were fighting about something, and she, like, immediately cleared that up, and she was like, I'm not gonna have this, like, narrative. I don't think she's like that. I think she's, like, a very genuine person. Yeah, I agree.

I think that if there was gonna be a couple that would do some sort of stunt, it would not be Janae and Kenny.

[Nick Viall]

And we obviously had the pleasure of interviewing them shortly after they came out of the villa. We loved our conversation with them. They were. I mean, this was a year ago. Obviously, it was fresh out of the villa. But, like, they. They both just. They both seem like a very cute couple and just also as individuals. Right? Because, like, obviously, these relationships that happen in the villa, like, there's just a lot working against these couples. There's outside pressures. They, you know, they have to get to know each other while also facing, like, this newfound fame. Very difficult situation. But, like, just the individuals that we got to know, Engine and Kenny, we both just had, like, just a wonderful, wonderful time. And, like, again, we don't know what happened. We don't want to really get into the speculation of what happened. People are creating distance from Kenny. That much is obvious. Like, that's not speculation.

[Listener]

So I think it's more telling that Janae deleted all of the photos of her. And Kenny deleted the photos and took.

[Guest/Listener]

Him out of the bio.

[Listener]

And Kenny removed Janae out of his bio, I think are, like, too, obviously. I mean, I know people who. Who still have pictures like them and their ex from, like, 12 years ago on their Instagram, you know, like, they're like, still. Yeah, Nick's got him, Vanessa. He's got. I mean, he's got everybody on.

[Nick Viall]

I haven't gone back and just decided, you know, I don't know. Just felt like.

[Listener]

Well, I was actually. It's funny you guys mentioned this, because I was looking back at Juliana's Instagram randomly, and, like, I was just curious to see if she still had pictures of Grant on there. And she does. Like, I feel like people don't, like, go back and delete things if it's amicable. Break up.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, no, this is. This is a clear reaction.

[Listener]

I mean, did, like, Matt. Did Rachel Kirkconnell and delete all her stuff with Matt?

I don't know if she did, but I think Matt, like, I looked at Matt's because Mo, it's all his, like, food reviews and stuff.

So, like, if he goes back and.

Deletes all these videos with Rachel, like, his page is not the same. You know what I mean?

Wait, I have a question for you guys. What do you do in this situation? You break up, but your entire brand is with them. Do you wipe your page also to.

[Guest/Listener]

Answer that, Rachel Kirkconnell did not delete, like, cute couple photos and things.

[Nick Viall]

Well, am I. Am I Janae or my Kenny?

[Listener]

Because I'm not saying Janae. I'm not saying Janae and Kenny. I'm saying, in general, you just, like, are in a partner. Like, you have brand partnerships with this person on your page, but you break up.

Do you delete them? Like Janae, the only one that Janae didn't delete was, like, a brand deal with the two of them.

[Nick Viall]

Well, let's just keep it real here. Like, if. If Kenny stepped in it, if he did something he shouldn't have done, whatever this was, I mean, honestly, it doesn't have to be much. I mean, like, look at the Matt and Rachel. Like, we all, like, people treated that like it was some sort of, you know, Matt was a bad breaker upper and maybe lacked some tact in terms of how he went about breaking it up. But ultimately he broke up with his girlfriend, which is, like, last time I checked, still allowed to happen. And the Internet lost their shit. And we're now in this time where, like, a scorned person in A relationship. It Cha Ching, you know what I'm saying? Like, that is the Ariane, as we, as the Internet refers to, is the Ariana Maddox treatment. And like, now Janae is potentially set up for, like, just a windfall of brand deals, cash and money, and she's about to make it rain, potentially.

[Listener]

I mean, she's gonna get that. What, what is it? The, the Brawny.

[Nick Viall]

The Brawny's up getting ready. Like, Bronnie's already making calls. So I, I, again, I, if you're Janae, maybe this is the, Again, she is. Her star's about to not be any brighter. And we thought her star couldn't get any brighter than it was. But I just hope that I'm wishing them both the best. I, I really hope that this is doesn't turn into some scandal. I, you know, but I, I, I'm worried for what the fallout could be as more information comes out, because the Internet never, like, operates with any type of chill when it comes to this stuff. And I hate to have to say it, but these are, you know, we are dealing with human beings, so let's just, I hope, I hope this is such a stupid thing to say that.

[Listener]

People, like, treat them as human beings.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, yeah. You know, they're not going to anyway, so we, I'm sure this is a story that will continue to unfold. We'll follow it. I would, I'm curious if we're going to see cameras being picked back up if, if beyond the Villa does a Bravo type of thing, if this all of a sudden, if we get reports of a season two pickup. Certainly this is all happening while beyond the Villa is airing, so it'll all be fascinating. And some other news. I don't know if you guys are following. We've had obviously Spencer Pratt on this show before, him and Heidi, who came on not too long ago to talk about the very tragic incident that people not only them face, but their parents, their entire community. The tragic LA fires that, you know, had claimed many victims of people who had their houses burned down. Even Spencer, when he came on here, talked about, he, you know, he is fighting the city and the state. I don't know, I don't know anything about all the hol stuff works. But lately he has been very active on social. It's been very fascinating. I don't know about you guys, but, like, when, when these devastating, like, tragic things happens, whether it's hurricanes or fires or whatever, and they're always used to, there's usually some kind of national response, some Kind of big fundraiser. Celebrities come out, perform, sing. There's these 1-800-Hotlines. Millions and millions of dollars are raised. I think there was an event where like hundreds of millions of dollars are rate raised for the victims of the LA fires. And they're always like, this is going to go directly to the victims and yada, yada. And then like, and then the concert ends and people move on with their lives. And we all just assume that everything is happening as it should. And it always makes you wonder, does that really happen? Well, Spencer's out there, like, claiming that this is not happening the way it should and that none of the victims have seen any of this money and that he's getting into the weeds of where this is going. And it's, it's very fascinating, but I don't know if anyone is following the story. I am, and I'm just rooting for Spencer and Heidi and the community of the Palisades because these people deserve to be able to build their homes back. If you are in Southern California, what happened with the LA fires was just absolutely, like, terrible. And to find out that like, some of this $100 million that was raised, you know, these things called nos that more and more people are becoming aware of and like, this is like a nonpartisan thing. It should not be partisan, you know, for victims of people who have houses burned down, like, get the money that like, was donated to them. But like, it's, it's crazy to think that, like, these like, organizations, when this money is raised, will just get be sent to these random organizations that have nothing. Like they're like, lo. Mostly affiliated with some kind of thing that might have something to do with like, helping people who might be affected by fires, but not the actual victims itself. Anyway, Spencer is like, I don't know if you've ever followed him. He's a great follow in general and he is on it. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to be going against Spencer Pratt when it comes to these types of things. But I, I'm supporting him in his fight to help all the victims of the LA fires. And I am, I'm definitely watching it closely. So we'll see what comes of it as, as we move forward. But it's a fascinating story. Well, we also have a great episode lined up for you momentarily. Jonathan Johnson of Bachelor in paradise, your bachelor sweetheart, is with us to talk about being a narc, kind of. He, he, I mean, he, he definitely nar.

[Listener]

I wasn't very happy with his way of handling that Situation.

[Nick Viall]

It was an interesting approach. Anyways, Jonathan is with us. Many are loving him this season. He is having a hard time on the. The beaches of paradise, finding love. We'll find out why that might be with. And also later this episode from your Real Housewives of Miami, we have Gertie Abrera with us. From the Real Housewives of Miami, she returns the vile Files. Fresh off her Celebration of Life episode where she decided to go full receipts. We have her to explain her motivations. It's very. It's giving very real high values of Atlanta, where it's. This is your party, this is your event, and you choose it to spend that time to kind of like go after one of your peers from a TV standpoint. Absolutely loved it. Just, absolutely, just wonderful. Wonderfully entertaining. Really, really love it when someone just plays, you know, screenshots at a party and you have, like, Nan and I were talking about this yesterday, like, the absolute best parties are, I think when. If you got guaranteed to go to a party, like a house party, any party, and you're like, at this party, it's like a New Year's Eve party. There's going to be this great band, there's going to be great music, there's gonna be drinks flowing, and at some point, someone is going to get on a mic and. And post receipts.

[Listener]

Oh, I'm there.

[Nick Viall]

Of this. Of a relationship, a friend, some kind of fight. Like, you would. You would want to go to that party, correct?

[Natalie Viall]

Yeah.

[Listener]

Leave my house.

[Nick Viall]

What if. What if the guest list was always at least 100 people, but to go to this party, you had to basically sign a waiver? Basically, like, at any given moment, like, you could be the person that one of the people at the party exposes. Exposes.

[Listener]

That would be awesome.

[Nick Viall]

It's. It's like party, like receipt roulette, receipt roulette.

[Listener]

You know, like, it just party that you leave and you, like, call your friends who you know weren't invited and be like, we have to get lunch. Like, I have to tell you about this party I went to. Yeah, the craziest happened.

That's an incredible idea, actually. Receipt roulette party.

Receive roulette party. So it's just like, I'm not texting anyone.

[Nick Viall]

Excuse me. Excuse me. Can we pull the music down, actually? And is there the projector? Yeah. All right. Anyways, can you play the screenshots? And then immediately it's just a bunch of text threads.

[Listener]

Imagine, like someone you think you're reconnecting with a friend because they invited you to A party. Like someone you haven't talked to in a while. And then it turns out it was one of those and they invited you.

Just in a while.

[Nick Viall]

That feels dirty.

[Natalie Viall]

Yeah.

[Listener]

As Marisol would say, to carry you. Like incredible, incredible work happening on the Real Housewives of Miami.

Well, Jonathan Johnson is here.

[Nick Viall]

Let's bring him in.

[Listener]

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[Nick Viall]

And me for the ladies, for the men, it doesn't matter. Honestly, linen breathes great for for everyone. And Quince has a great lineup of great linen pieces. Very perfectly made. It feels great on your body.

[Listener]

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[Nick Viall]

This Wednesday at 8, 7 Central on MTV. The challenge is back for season 41. But everything you know about the game is about to change. Iconic challenge legends are pairing up with new threats in an attempt to win it all. Fan favorites from shows like Survivor and Big Brother will enter the game as skilled rookies and team up with those who know the challenge best. Seasoned vets like CT Car, Maria Bananas and more.

[Listener]

The new threats are observing everything these vets say and do. But in the end, will they use it against them? The vets may know the game, but what the rookies lack in experience, they make up for in stamina. And drive? Can they work together and forge a new challenge legacy? Or will the new threats take down the same mentors who help raise them up? With brand new challenges, new faces, and new rules comes new chaos. This season has it all.

[Nick Viall]

Even cheaters don't miss the challenge. Vets and new threats. New season premieres Wednesday at 8, 7 Central on MTV. Jonathan, welcome back to the Vile files. Good to be with you, buddy.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Happy to be here.

[Nick Viall]

Where do you want to start? You narcing or.

[Listener]

I hated the way that you handled that.

[Nick Viall]

Oh, wow, she's coming in hot.

[Listener]

Like, I loved that you told Cat, but then I hated that when Dale came, she been like, dude, just tell her what the he said, you know, but you're like, I'm gonna let you.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Okay. So what had happened there, too, and what I don't think was actually, like, portrayed is I didn't remember clearly where it had come from. So I was like, I don't want to be like, oh, Dale said it. If I wasn't 100% sure that that was the case.

[Nick Viall]

So you second guessed yourself in the moment.

[Listener]

Was it Jeremy lying that threw you off?

[Jonathan Johnson]

I don't remember. Honestly. Heat of the moment, I think they were just. They were coming off a crazy night. I came off of a date and just came into it and overheard it, and I was like, that's not a cool thing.

[Nick Viall]

Like, before we finish Natalie's critiques of. Of your execution of it, I am just like. I think it's an interesting conversation of, like, you know, the bro code versus, like, I think you were there for Cat. I love that. But technically, it was an arc. You definitely, definitely told on Dale, but.

[Listener]

If he didn't remember that it came from Dale.

[Nick Viall]

But I'm just. I am just wondering, like, what's your just. And I'm genuinely curious because you seem like Jonathan, one of the good guys. You know what I'm saying? You had cats back. So, like, what is your thought process? 2025. I want to hear Jonathan Johnson's just, like, bro code in terms of, like, how you went through the process of, like, whether you heard it from Dale.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Or like, a bird came or, like, the raccoon from season, you know, two of Paradise. Like, whoever told you that Dale wanted to up when it came to his relationship with Cat? What made you go straight to Kat and be like, I heard.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Okay. No, I got a great answer for you. You bring up the term bro code, and that is saved for people that I would have called bro. And I have nothing against Dale. But him and I weren't bros, so Kat and I had built, like, a really strong friendship at this point. You know, we didn't work out romantically, but I was like, you know what? Like, she's awesome. I know she's doing so much better than she had been previously, and I want to make sure that she gets through this in one piece and has, like, a great outcome from the show. That being said, my loyalty is to her in this situation. You know what I mean? So, like, I over. Heal, overhear somebody that isn't my person, my friend, whatever, say something about one of my others. I'm gonna let the friend that's closest to me.

[Nick Viall]

Now, how would you have handled it? As if Dale was one of your guys.

[Jonathan Johnson]

I would have talked about it to his face, like, confronted him about it. Like, what do you mean by that? But that just wasn't my place to, like, if it was one of my friends, for sure. Like, dude, you're acting like an idiot right now. Like, why would you. And that's the thing. I just. I would never.

[Nick Viall]

That makes sense. Like, why associate with that conversation?

[Listener]

You know, I actually completely agreed with what you did there. I, like, so happy that you did that. I was so glad that you pulled Cat aside and told her because, like, she had to know that he's been saying this shit behind her back. And him trying to defend himself. Like, he. It's on camera. The receipt is right there. He said what he said, and now he's trying to explain to her that he said it a different kind of way and that it's not what he meant. And it's like, no, that's bullshit. Like, you literally said that. And I was so mad at Jeremy for lying. I thought that you did the right thing. I was so glad that you did that.

I was like, what was crazy? The fact that you tell Kat again, I'm pro. I did appreciate you telling Cat.

[Jonathan Johnson]

You were like, no, no, no, no. I didn't like how you did that.

[Listener]

I didn't like how when Dale came up and he was like, what's going on? And Cat was, like, trying to protect you by being like.

[Jonathan Johnson]

He didn't look at me once when he walked up. Like, he just, like, walked up and, like, was tunnel vision on Cat, and I was like, okay, well, I have no purpose in this conversation. I was like, I'm gonna get out of here.

[Nick Viall]

All right.

[Guest/Listener]

I hear you piggyback off of Leia, too. Because I was like, the production had your back, and they showed the clip of him Saying it because it's like, at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. You said it.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah.

[Guest/Listener]

And it's like, whatever the intention behind it and how he said it was exactly as curt and gross.

[Nick Viall]

Also, I do want to give you props, Jonathan, because, like, you nailed it, like, verbatim, unlike Jeremy, who, like, you said the, you know, and it's very clear.

[Listener]

No, that's what's fucked up is that Jeremy's like, Dale, like, she, she came over here and said. Did I say, did you say that? That you're, you want to go on a date so that you can be toxic? I'm like, no, not what she said.

[Jonathan Johnson]

And see, that's one of those bro code moments though, because they were roommates and they were bros. And again, that's how I would have handled it differently. In his moment, he goes, hey, I'm gonna have my buddies back and be like, no, that didn't happen for me. I would have handled it in a way I've been like, dude, don't say stupid like that. Like, this person, like, clearly has a lot of feelings for you, is on the road to loving you and you're gonna say something like that. So I don't know.

[Nick Viall]

Question. So, yeah, I didn't know that Jeremy and Dale were roommates, but either way, Jeremy lied. Right. Like, to cat's face, it wasn't. So I'm curious, what would be your notes for Jeremy? Would you have handled it that way? Would you have lied in the moment, not know, like, how. How do you think he could have handled that better?

[Jonathan Johnson]

Wow, that's tough. It's. It's tough because if it's one of your best friends, like, you want to make sure that it's handled appropriately, but you also want to make sure that it comes from them. Like, if he did say that, like, like I would want to give my friend the opportunity to own up to it directly.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Rather than hear it from me and then they have this whole freak out or whatever they want to do in reaction to what was said, I'd be like, hey, you need to go tell them right now.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Because they're asking me and it clearly the word is spreading. Go nip it in the ass now and take care of it and just be like, yeah, I said this and then let it be done with.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. Because he was just flat out, like, he did not say that. He could have been like, I think you should need to talk to Dale. And like, whatever was said, I'm, I, I don't Think he meant for it to come across that way when maybe it would have been the best thing for him to say. I don't know. But he just lied. He just flat out lied and then made something up.

[Listener]

No. Then Jeremy's like, no, he didn't say that. Jonathan, you go see. Guess. Well, see, I guess I heard it wrong. I'm like, no, stick to your gun.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, you got gaslight.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Well, that's what. Well, that's what I was saying is I didn't know exactly how I heard it. I guess I repeated it verbatim. But you did. In the moment, I was like, did somebody else say that?

[Nick Viall]

What's your read on. On Jeremy? I've heard that, you know, the guys seem to like him. He seems like a bro, but, yeah, he's had a couple tough moments this season from confessing his love to Susie and then, like, not telling Bailey about it.

[Listener]

Actually, that never happened.

[Nick Viall]

There was a lot of franking biting in last night's episode. So the. If you guys. I don't know if anyone picked up on it, where it sounded like Jeremy was saying that he would propose to Susie, like, if she came back. That, like, was definitely. That was definitely, like, some very clever editing. Like, we. We just. Jeremy's voice without hearing his lips or, you know, it's like, it could have been from anywhere. So I'm just gonna discard that completely as disingenuous or just editing. Nevertheless, he definitely poured his heart out to Susie and then tried to forget it ever happened. And I'm just curious. It's just as someone who was watching it, like, we're watching it, because I'm assuming you didn't know about that call in real time.

[Jonathan Johnson]

No, I was, like, one of the last ones to figure it out.

[Nick Viall]

Like, what's. What's your read on him? Do you think he's a genuine guy and. Or do you think he's too in the bro code arena?

[Jonathan Johnson]

I think it's tough. And I was very isolated from a lot of the stuff for most of the show because I was the odd man out. You know, a lot of the couples just kind of, like, meshed, and they'd hang out in the pool together, and they do a bunch of things together, and I'm just kind of like. Like, yeah. So, like, I didn't get to know that until it was further down the road as far as, like, Jeremy as a friend. Like, I love Jeremy. I think he's a great friend to me. Good guy, and he's got a great heart. But as far as watching this back, I. I think there's things that he would probably do differently as well, but I don't know how to go about that differently. And again, this is one of those scenarios, like how I was saying with the Dale situation, you want to give your friend the opportunity to say it. It straight up first and own up to it. And I think it's something that, like, once it had happened, somebody should have told me, like, hey, you need to go nip this in the ass now and just, like, let her know before it blows up.

[Listener]

I mean, it's just like he, like, completely forgot that he's on a television show with cameras, with microphones. It's like, you don't think they're gonna play that shit back.

[Guest/Listener]

I think the moment for me with Jeremy was the conversation with Brian where he's like, is your. I'll tell you when mics are off or whatever? And then tries to, like, whisper about not being into Bailey or. And how he preferred Susie or whatever, where I'm just like a. Do you think that he's doing this because. Or, like, staying with Bailey because he just wants to carry on to the next week to, like, see if somebody else comes in or, like, did you feel like the connection between Jeremy and Bailey was authentic?

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah. I mean, so that's actually a great question because throughout the filming of it, Bailey and I, like, had flirted a little bit on and off, too. And again, you don't get to see every facet of every relationship, but there reached a point where I was like, I'm not even gonna entertain this anymore because I love to see my friend happy. And, like, anytime he was with her, he was genuinely, like, giddy happy. And he's a pretty stoic guy. Like, he's just like a. Yeah, pretty cool all the time.

[Listener]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Johnson]

But, like, when he was with her, it was, like, genuine. It was cute. And I was like, you know what? But I'm never gonna try to get in the way of this. Like, he is just phenomenally happy with her. So I think part of it was also fear. He's like, I don't want to ruin this great thing that I have going on as well.

[Guest/Listener]

So what was your reaction when you saw the conversation with Brian, like, when you saw it back this past week?

[Jonathan Johnson]

I was like, well, I know how this plays out, because I didn't. I didn't find out until after it had all kind of come to light.

[Guest/Listener]

Right, right, right. It just made me so upset for Bailey because I'm like, I Feel like she really genuinely has feelings for Jeremy and also has no idea about the Susie situation.

[Listener]

So sad.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. You think he would have been like, hey, listen, I was really upset that you went on a date with someone else, and I panicked, and I called Susie and asked for her to come back. She declined. Yeah, I still like you, but I definitely want you to know I made that call, and I just wanted to be upfront about that. Yeah, done.

[Listener]

I will say the Brian and Parisa in the pool was brutal. Brutal.

[Jonathan Johnson]

I mean, she was like, what's your favorite color?

[Listener]

Yeah, I'm not. You're embarrassing.

[Nick Viall]

Huh?

[Listener]

No.

[Nick Viall]

He's like, first of all, he goes like this. He's like, what's your favorite color? He goes, I'm not. I'm not gonna answer that question. And she goes, something like, green. Why not? Or, like, immediately, just answer the question. You know, it's like, what's your favorite color?

[Jonathan Johnson]

Red.

[Nick Viall]

Moving on. All right, immediately. You've already spent more time on the topic that you want to. You don't want to spend any time on by just refusing the answer and then getting in a whole philosophical debate about why you don't want to answer questions about your favorite color. Yeah, it's just because you're, like, so deep and you want to have meaningful conversations. I don't know about you guys. It just sound like a real, real kind of complicated way for Brian to want to get lucky. He's like, I know these are the type of conversations that don't lead us to us taking our clothes off. So I don't know, but, like, let's look into each other's souls.

[Guest/Listener]

Yeah, but starting a fight over what your favorite color is definitely ends up to bedroom.

[Nick Viall]

And then he pouted over, like, the railing of the pool.

[Listener]

Really? That was crazy.

[Nick Viall]

What's your read on Brian Toxic?

[Jonathan Johnson]

Oh, man. I don't know. This one. This one's tough, too, because I ended up being roomed with Brian.

[Nick Viall]

Huh.

[Jonathan Johnson]

So getting to hear things kind of behind the scenes, but also, like, I don't want to hear, like, the negative thoughts that may come out after those situations. I don't think he communicates his feelings very well, to be 100 honest.

[Nick Viall]

No.

[Jonathan Johnson]

I mean, clearly, you can't even say the favorite color in that moment, but I don't know.

[Nick Viall]

He was very tricky.

[Jonathan Johnson]

I didn't. I didn't talk as much as, like, you would think you would talk to somebody you're sharing a room with. We just kind of existed together.

[Listener]

After the conversation with Jeremy, he was very Like, I'm definitely telling Bailey about this. Like, he had no sense of bro code towards Jeremy in that moment.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah. So, I mean, she had a right to know though, too. And again, I. I can't speak on that one, whether it was right or wrong, because obviously I did something similar. The situation's a little bigger and it's a little bit more played out, but I did the same thing, and I was looking out for a girl that I. I think I have a good friendship with back. And I. I mean, I don't see the harm in it other than the fact that if they are as close as they seem, that you should give that person the. The opportunity to just.

[Nick Viall]

Just own it.

[Listener]

I was just gonna say, what's going on? Like, why aren't you finding love?

[Jonathan Johnson]

Honestly, it's just like a. It's an age old case of the people I'm into aren't into me, and the people that are into me, I'm just not into. I tried to explain this to my friends. I was like, some people go a lifetime without finding a single person. Like, there's billions of people on this floating rock and nobody finds a single person. I was like, they put 10 people in front of me, half of which are my friends and two of which I was interested in. Then they both friends on me, and now I'm here and I'm like, well, I don't want to go home because I'm having fun, but also, like, watching everybody else be in love, isn't that fun? And then obviously, at some point the show changes and I'm like, okay, well, this is a reason to stay. You know, this is fun. But as far as, like, just flat out finding somebody, like, once the options were all exhausted, I'm like, well, what do I do now?

[Nick Viall]

No, I feel for you in that. Like, I, you know, Bachelor does that all the time, where it's just like, I just. I'm not into anyone here. And you don't want to be. You don't want to, like, say that, you know, because you don't want to, like, sound like you're talking about anyone. You're just like, I'm great. You didn't cast anyone. I want to go for. And then, like, they have a way of making it look like you can't get anyone, literally.

[Jonathan Johnson]

And because I care about everybody that comes onto this, like, I don't want somebody to walk in. I'd be like, no, absolutely not. And then you look like a dick because you're like, you need to give them A chance.

[Guest/Listener]

Right.

[Jonathan Johnson]

But knowing these people, that I've met them before or you can tell pretty quickly on. In a conversation or in just any sort of, like, relationship that you have with this person, like, if they're going to be somebody you would date or not. And rather than just being like, no, off the rip, I'm like, well, let's just, like, let's have fun. Like, yeah, I'll go on this date with you as a friend, but you never know, and you want to let them down as. As nicely as you can. But then it's also like, a week is two days. So it's like, okay, well, you don't have the luxury of taking your time to let this person down and do it in the best way possible. It's like, it has to be kind of cutthroat. And that's just like, not me. So it kind of also bit me in the ass a little bit.

[Nick Viall]

Back to Dale. Like, you're clearly not friends with them.

[Jonathan Johnson]

No, and I are fine in that moment. We weren't friends.

[Nick Viall]

Like, well, you're fine. You know, that's. You know, when I asked Natalie something, then she's like, I'm fine. You know, she's not fine.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah, like, I. I've met him, and we've hung out before, and we have no bad blood, no bad intentions towards one another. It just. At that point in the show, I had no ties to him. Like, I. We didn't talk, really. We were competing for the same girl, which I. I wasn't going for Kat at that point. Like, she was just a friend. So, yeah, my loyalty was to Kat.

[Nick Viall]

In that moment, when you're watching it back, because the way it's aired it, it's definitely being. Dale's being portrayed clearly an attractive guy. I mean, I don't. I mean, I haven't seen him in real life, but he seemed like a very attractive guy. And, you know, he's big, tall, strong, and beautiful, and he has a nice resume, but he is being portrayed as this unbelievable prize that everyone, you know, wants. Like, is that how it felt on the beach? And I guess, like, what was just your honest read about how Dale communicates with the women he pursues? Because he seems to talk about how he's always down for, like, he wants to do opening communication. I also, like, have a weird last week, guys. I was. I was talking to my manager, and we were just having a business call, and, like, I almost was like, should we dead it? Like, and I was being serious. No, like, it's Just like it got into my.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Vocabulary. I was like, should we just like move on from it? And I'm. All I could think about was dead in it.

[Guest/Listener]

No, I almost said you.

[Nick Viall]

I just really wanted to hate that.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Happened to me in the word period.

[Guest/Listener]

No.

[Jonathan Johnson]

People start saying like period, like period.

[Nick Viall]

Girl, and then that's his fun.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

I say period all the time, but yeah. Do you think Dale's just a little bit. I know, I know you're fine. I know you're chill. I know you have no problem with them, but do you think he's a little full of shit?

[Jonathan Johnson]

I don't know if full of shit's the right word.

[Nick Viall]

Slightly disingenuous, I think, I think he's.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Just, I don't know, he's. Again, he's Dale. Like, he's. Yeah. Beautiful, light skinned. I'm getting there. I'm getting there. Tall, beautiful, light skinned man with colored eyes. Like, I don't think he's, he's gotten told no in his recent years of life. I think in how he grew up probably. I, I don't know his, his background, but I think in recent years, him being who he is, being so like.

[Nick Viall]

Because Kat doesn't know his either, you know.

[Jonathan Johnson]

So I think he's just going about life the way that he would outside of the show. And you can get away with those things in the real world because they don't have one little controlled area that they're stuck in where they can communicate that. Well, now there's cameras involved and all the women that you're talking to can communicate that. Not only can they communicate it, but they can see what you're doing. You know what I mean? So it's just like.

[Nick Viall]

Well, it's because like, I think the problem, I, I empathize with Dale because if you're familiar with Dale's story, you know, he, we, he went on the Bachelorette to pursue Claire and Claire, like fell in love with them day two and they got engaged and left the show with within days of filming. So Dale had one of the most unique experiences being a part of this franchise. And you know, regardless of what happened with his relationship with Claire, with Claire, like, you know, going on the show is an experience. You make friends. It was like, it's a whole like summer camp retreat type of vibe. And you could argue that Dale was, you know, that experience was taken from him on the Bachelorette. So, like, totally get that. But like just, just come in and say that and state that. I'm curious when you got to when you met Dale, and he was kind of talking about. Because, like, I don't know how it was for you guys, but back in my day, a lot of people would kind of state, like, why they're there, like, you know, just, I want to date around. Or they would talk about their past relationships. Did Dale make it clear to everyone that, like, he. He hasn't had this experience before, and he really wanted to stay open and pursue other relationships and made it very clear to everyone that he, like early days, he really wanted to. To take his time because it really seemed like he went hard and heavy to cat real quick and was telling cat everything she needs to hear and wants to hear. Well, then he goes into his ITMs and he's just like, whoa. You know, like, I just. I just want to chill. I just want to take it slow. But he doesn't seem to be communicating that the cat. And I'm just curious, what did you see being, you know, boots on the ground.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Honestly, like, from the get go, he seemed like one of the only other guys that was similar to me that was just, like, kind of open and doing paradise, the paradise way where you're trying to go on dates, you're trying to meet other people, and not just locking into one person too quick. I think the problem now when I. When I watch it back is that he's, like, over promising to each individual. Like, for me, I was like, like, maybe, maybe not. He's like, oh, no. Like, I could actually, like, see things with you. And it's kind of biting him in the ass because not only are these girls getting excited, but then Cat hears about it, and you're like, like, oh, okay, yeah, that's. That's not gonna bear out too well. And in her defense, from everything that I've heard, too, about cat from previous seasons, like, she's kind of holding herself together pretty well for everything that's going on on the show. I'm like, she's my favorite. You were so calm. You handled that so well. Like, that is not at all what I had heard about you from the past. Like, you seem so comical, collected. Like, what's going on here? And that's. That's part of why I wanted to just, like, be her friend, too, because we had talked about it as well. Like, how much growth she'd done through therapy and the things that she had done. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

I love how she calmly said to Dale that she was triggered by Dale assuming that life's been perfect for her. It was just like, oh, yeah. Being Triggered because someone thinks your life is perfect is just saying.

[Listener]

I also loved when Alicia is talking to. Also, I hate that all of, like, Grant's girls are getting together and, like, doing girl powwows and, like, leaving all the rest of the women out. I get that. Like, they all know each other.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah.

[Listener]

But, you know, feels a little clicky. But for then Alicia to, like, sit with those girls and then be like, oh, yeah, like, you know, Cat was yelling at Dale for, like, the date or whatever, and she's like, oh, yeah. Like, she told me that Dale's closed off. I'm like, that's not what she said. She said that Dale told her that he wants to be, like, intentional. Intentional with her. Like, everyone is just changing up the words, and it's like, that changes the whole meaning and everything. That, like, that's not what she said. She didn't say Dale's closed off, like, at all. So it's just, you know, it's so funny to watch, like, one conversation happen and then someone, like, retell it to their friends, and it's in a completely different. Different way.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah. The game of telephone is a pain in the ass on paradise, that's for sure.

[Nick Viall]

How close were you to having sex with April?

[Guest/Listener]

I was gonna ask how you felt about seeing her kiss two other men.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Oh, man. Oh, man. Not close at all. One.

[Listener]

It's too bad.

[Jonathan Johnson]

And first of all, our. Our moment was built up so much. Her and eyes, but then also, she, like, kisses two other people. I'm like, he has really played off of her giving me the rose versus, like, she made out with Sean and with Dale.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, she made out with Sean.

[Listener]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Like, full time.

[Guest/Listener]

He was on top of her for a while.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And that just seemed like a.

[Listener]

A shot.

[Nick Viall]

The shot kiss. That wasn't really.

[Listener]

It was the same with the bird thing. I mean, he.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah, the same.

[Listener]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Johnson]

I love April so much, though. She's, like, the definition of, like, the word minks. She's just like, so would you.

[Listener]

Her purring.

[Jonathan Johnson]

No. I love her so much, but no.

[Nick Viall]

Would she?

[Jonathan Johnson]

Probably. I don't know. I don't know. It could all be in good fun in her mind. I haven't tried to, like, dig too deep into it. She did say she loves younger men on the last show or on the last episode.

[Listener]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

She's like, I don't know. My promise, but I like them young.

[Jonathan Johnson]

She says, oh, that's what it was. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. To quote accurately, what was the best.

[Guest/Listener]

Piece of advice that you got from one of the golden best piece of.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Advice, honestly, the night that April had saved me, saved me, had given me her rose, she had come up to me. So she pulled me for a chat. She just wanted to, like, talk about, like, where I was at with everything. But also Leslie had pulled me for a chat that night too, and they just wanted to, like, see how I was doing. And I'd come to the conclusion, I was like, I'm going home, like, and I, I was okay with it. I was happy. There's like, nobody's here for me and all my friends are in great, like, relationships. Everybody seems good. And I was happy to go. But what they wanted to tell me collectively was like, hey, we know it's not working out for you. Obviously things don't seem great for you right now. And I was like, but I'm in a good mood. They're like, but don't walk around with your head down at all. Like, we see what your intent is. We see what you're looking for. We know that you're trying to keep it, like, realistic in an unrealistic environment. Like, yeah, it may bite you in the ass, but, like, when you find somebody, it's going to be phenomenal. And, like, just keep doing that.

[Natalie Viall]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Johnson]

And for me, you know, I'm thinking, like, damn, I'm failing at paradise. But they're sitting here being like, don't, don't think that at all. Like, you're doing incredible as a human, as a contestant, as everything. Like, just keep going. And they genuinely. And not even just up until this point, but the duration of my time here. They save paradise for me, through and through. Like, they're just so reassuring, so sweet and like, if there's ever an issue with me or with whatever's going on, they, they see it and they see through it and they, they know what to say and they're able to, like, be realistic and communicate what they see. Intent, wise behind actions, not just the mistakes that are made.

[Guest/Listener]

Sometimes it sounds like they were, like, helping keeping you grounded in this.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Oh, my God.

[Listener]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Johnson]

So much.

[Natalie Viall]

So wholesome.

[Nick Viall]

Jonathan, what, what can we come to expect when they. It seems like next week. I thought it was going to be this week, but introduce the half a million dollar prize that contestants can, can potentially win. And what can we come to expect or what will. How will that change the beaches of Paradise?

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah, I think I answered this last week and I actually really like the, the way that it was, it came out. But like, I think in paradises before, you know, good couples kind of just like, fall off to the side because you're like, oh, there's no drama here. You don't want to see what's going on. Like, yeah, you want to see. At the end of the day, you want to see people happy and in like a loving relationship. Those are the people that win at the end. But you don't get to be a part of their relationship, their journey throughout it. Like, they just. You're like, okay, they're good over there. Let's see the drama over here. Well, I think with the way it changes, you know, they're putting good relationships and even bad ones in scenarios where you're getting pressed or you're getting challenged and you're outside of this, like, comfort zone. You're not just on an all inclusive vacation anymore. You're doing these games where it's like, hey, are you guys compatible? Are you guys good? Are you going to be able to make it through challenging communication, random things, and you get to see people kind of pushed and you get to be a part of people's love story. You get to see, hey, they are as amazing as it looks on the outside. Or no, they are shakier than we even thought. And it's a really cool, like, juxtaposition that you get to watch it from versus, like old paradises where it's just like, yeah, they're there, they're happy, we're cool.

[Listener]

In this episode we see Jill goes home. I know that you guys had like a interesting argument. Can you shed some light on what exactly was going on with that argument? Because I, as a viewer left kind of confused what the contention was there. And then I also just want to know how you feel about her going home and her exit it for sure.

[Jonathan Johnson]

I mean, for our disagreement, you know, she had come on and I'd known that again, we. We were just friends. And then kind of going into like the date, we played a like, adult twister and we shared a kiss and we had an amazing conversation at the end of the date. You know, her and I hadn't talked in a bit, but the conversation we had was just so easy, so natural. And I was like, wow, this is really good. And I knew things were still very strong with Alex and I wanted to give her my rose, but I had. And this is where the miscommunication on my incomes from like, hey, you made my decision a lot harder. And in the meaning of that, I meant, like, my decision to go with Alex was a lot harder because her and I haven't had a conversation that Natural since we'd even matched up. And I think she was like, you know what? Like, it feels like as if you're leading me on. And that was where my mistake had fallen into place. And I was like, you know what? I'm so sorry for miscommunicating. I'm sorry for this. I'm sorry for that. And that. That was not at all. My intent was to hurt you in any way, shape, or form. I wanted to make sure that you had had a good date, not pairing up with anybody. So then when it came around that second time, you know, she was still a little upset with me, even after our first conversation. And I was just like, hey, I just want to say I'm so sorry one more time. And I wanted to just hear her out, see if she needed to get anything else off of her chest. And then she tried to be like, hey, I'm not actually upset. And I was like, oh, well, kind of seems like you are, but just didn't say that. She was like, okay, whatever. And I just wanted to voice my side, you know, I just want. I think it was a moment of weakness and defensiveness where I just wanted to be heard. So I was trying to. And she would just keep on repeat being like, you make no sense. You make no sense. Maybe I made no sense. Maybe I did. I don't know. I don't have the transcript back, but I was just like, I don't know. When. When you're. You're feeling unheard. All you want is just for that person to have a little patience with you or just be like, you know what? Yeah, I hear you, and I understand you, and that's fine. We can move on. And I just don't think she. She wanted to give that to me, and I got. I got defensive, and I got upset, and I was getting emotional. I was like, well, this sucks. And we just kind of had to just end it after that because I was like, this isn't going to go anywhere.

[Nick Viall]

I felt for Jill, you know, she seems like a really sweet person. I suspect that maybe Jill's man will not be someone that Bachelor would cast on their show.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah, Jill. Jill's incredible. She's hilarious. You know, she's got a lot of love to give, and. Yeah, I agree. I don't. I don't think actually. Well, I know for a fact on paradise, her person wasn't there, but she's gonna find somebody very, very special.

[Listener]

I would have loved to see her with Brett. Hate to bring him back with Brett. Like, you Know Brett.

[Nick Viall]

Where's Brett?

[Jonathan Johnson]

He's kicking it wearing his halo mask at home.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah, I know. I saw that. And he added to the comedic lore that is Brett. But, you know, it's like a jail, a Jellico. You know, her whole, like, exit was very, like, you know, very bachelor, but very, like, yeah, I'm just so tired of not being picked and.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

And I think a lot of people feel like Jill often feels, but, like, I feel like it's a classic of, like, stop going after the same. Like, stop going after the same people who make you always feel the same way.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

About yourself. You know, clearly Jill has a lot to offer the. The right person, but, like, she doesn't feel seen by these men that she's pursuing. Bachelor. You know, they. They have a spectrum of personalities, but there's a mold of. Of people that they. They cast on their shows.

[Jonathan Johnson]

I bonded with that exit so hard too. Like. Like, in those moments, like, yeah, there's moments where I friend zone people, but in the moments where you just continuously get friend zoned by the people that you want or just. And I think in her case, she was just, like, being like anybody, you know, she was just over it and tired of it. And it's like, you can see how much that means to her too. And I'm like, God, like, not only do we resonate with you, but everybody at home's going to resonate with the fact that you feel this way, because I don't think there's a single person that hasn't dealt with that. And if you haven't, like you, because, like, that means you've probably been beautiful and cool your entire life and we just don't trust you.

[Listener]

But for the most part, she reacted.

To Sean's reaction to her leaving. She was like, I'm gonna do you a favor and I'm gonna leave. And he was like, what?

[Nick Viall]

No, that was such a fake.

[Natalie Viall]

Like, oh, no, we're not getting married. Yeah, you know.

[Listener]

You know, this isn't going anywhere. Like, please.

He's like, yeah, you know, we're not getting married.

[Nick Viall]

He had nothing to say. It was pretty great.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Jonathan, it's always great talking with you. Thanks for shedding some light on everything that's going on on Paradise. He let my audience know where they can follow you and all that fun, fun stuff.

[Jonathan Johnson]

You can follow me on TikTok or Instagram @ Jiggity John. And I think I said my LinkedIn last time. I was like, follow me, Jonathan. Jonathan Johnson on LinkedIn. Not that interesting. Or Facebook, whichever you want. Facebook's probably the easiest way to contact me. I'll actually see it.

[Listener]

I'm actually going to connect with you on LinkedIn after that.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Actually, no. LinkedIn might be number one. You should be a mess. I connect with everybody on LinkedIn and then I chat with them.

[Nick Viall]

You weren't by any chance at David Dobrik's party over the weekend, were you?

[Jonathan Johnson]

No. Okay, wait, why?

[Nick Viall]

Because I don't know if you know who Janae and Kenny are of Love Island Season 6, but they have broken.

[Listener]

Up, and they were last seen at David Dork's party together. So we're trying to figure out on.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Saturday, even though they were broken up. So you're trying to figure out if they are aren't broken up?

[Listener]

No, we know they're broken up. We're just trying to figure out if you were there. Maybe you saw something, maybe you heard something.

[Jonathan Johnson]

I'm gonna be so honest. I didn't watch Love Island Island.

[Listener]

All right.

[Guest/Listener]

Yeah, that's true.

[Nick Viall]

Get the out.

[Jonathan Johnson]

I've met. I've met the cast, and they're all great. Like, they seem really, really sweet. Like, who's the guy that won? Brian. Is that his name?

[Guest/Listener]

Brian Amaya.

[Jonathan Johnson]

So nice. Oh, yeah, the nicest dude.

[Guest/Listener]

Wouldn't want anybody else to win this season.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Really?

[Listener]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

We're talking about last season, though. Okay. Oh.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Oh, all right.

[Nick Viall]

You don't know.

[Jonathan Johnson]

No, no, no. Well, when I think last season, I think the one that just ended. Yeah.

[Guest/Listener]

Yeah, he's technically right. It is the last season.

[Nick Viall]

Well, Jonathan, it's always a pleasure to have you. Appreciate you coming, buddy. Up next, we have Gertie from the Real Housewives of Miami to talk about her Celebration of Life party, also known as the party. She decided to bring the receipts. But before we get to Gertie, we do have your rapid recap to bring any of you who didn't watch Miami up to speed with all of the drama that happened last episode.

[Listener]

All right, here's our rapid recap. We had Julia and Martina Kid reveal. They are so cute. Plus, one of them is wearing a baby Balenciaga shirt, which is so stupid. I love it. We get a FaceTime from Karamo Brown from Queer Eye in a rare moment of Netflix and Peacock brand integration, inviting Julia and the girls to an LGBTQ event. Gay people love a cause. In true ally fashion, Stephanie Sojay picks up Marisol in a Rolls Royce with a bar installed in the cup holder. Marisol then reveals in said Rolls Royce that she has the colon of a newborn. Also, if anyone was wondering, Alexia is maybe kind of back on with Todd Gert a Celebration of life event in honor of her breast cancer. At the event, Alexia gets annoyed that Stephanie Sojay doesn't with her and Todd. Gertie gets up to speak, and it's amazing. She's so beautiful and vulnerable and powerful. Shout out, Gertie. But then Gertie gets up to speak again. It's about Julia. And what does she do? She broadcasts her text with Julia about the cruise with Captain Sandy up on the big screen for all to see a la Kenya More. Everyone is confused because they thought that Gertie and Julia were cool, but also their pretending that exposing paragraphs of text that no one can read on a big screen is a bigger violation than dumping water on someone's head. This leads to a blowout between Alexia and Stephanie Sojay that is technically about being up Gertie's ass, but really all about Todd overall. Are Alexia and Todd in game? Can Gertie come back from this? What constitutes the colon of a newborn? We'll find out soon.

[Nick Viall]

Very, very happy for. For Julia, obviously, with, you know, her. Her family growing. It was a little bizarre how Bravo chose to. To air that reveal.

[Listener]

Yeah. It was so random. I was like, wait, I mean, so everyone's just meeting her kids for the first time right now? Like, are they clear?

She set it up in the last episode that she was gonna bring in the kids. She was like, oh. I think I'm like, it's time to, like, introduce the kids to the girls.

[Jonathan Johnson]

We've seen pictures of them throughout as well.

[Guest/Listener]

Yeah, I think there was something where she was, like, going through final stages with like, the adoption and whatnot, because she had a meeting last episode. And so I think this was.

[Natalie Viall]

Was.

[Nick Viall]

It just didn't feel like it had the moment. You would think it would, like, a.

[Guest/Listener]

Little party maybe, or like, I totally.

[Nick Viall]

Get not wanting to bring your kids on a TV show first and foremost. Totally respect that. But if you are just. It's obviously a beautiful story.

[Listener]

And then, like, Alexia, has she, like, known them for years? I'm just like. She walked in and was like, oh. And, like, started kissing them and, like, loved them.

That's just Alexia.

Literally.

[Guest/Listener]

That's a Latina's thing.

[Listener]

Yeah.

[Guest/Listener]

Like, she's like, come here. I'm gonna be your favorite tia ever.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Listener]

And you know what? She probably will be.

[Guest/Listener]

She would be mine too. She looks like a real life Barbie bringing donuts.

[Natalie Viall]

I would die.

[Nick Viall]

Do you think. Do you think Marisol's doctor literally said you have the colon of a baby?

[Listener]

No, I think she. That's a, that's a Marisol original.

Yeah.

Like I have the colon of a newborn.

[Natalie Viall]

Yeah.

[Listener]

They probably were like, wow, it's, you know, pretty great colon in here. Like not. Definitely not a lot of polyps.

Like she goes out of a newborn.

[Guest/Listener]

Exactly.

[Nick Viall]

So basically brand new.

[Listener]

Basically brand new. Which means she can have as many screwdrivers as she wants.

[Guest/Listener]

For the time being, I will say she does need to be studied because that woman has an alcohol, multiple alcoholic beverages a day and she still looks flawless, still acts flawless. And I'm just like, how, how are your insides? Not just like rotted, even when she.

[Listener]

Briefly had an eye patch.

[Nick Viall]

Well, speaking of this episode, it's time to talk to its star. Up next, Gertie joins us to answer all your birding questions. Well, dog parents out there, you know how much we love our dogs. Jeff and Steven, if you love yours as much as we love ours, you want to make. You're feeding them the highest quality foods because what they put in their body matters for their overall health, their longevity, how they feel, and you want to make sure your dogs feel great. Sundays for Dogs is fresh dog food made from a short list of human grade ingredients. Sundays was co founded by Dr. Tory Waxman, a practicing veterinarian who tests and formulates every version of each recipe. Sundays contains 100 all natural meats and superfoods and 0% synthetic nutrients and artificial ingredients. Dog parents report noticeable health improvements in their pups, including softer fur, fresher breath, better poops and more energy after switching to Sunday. Sundays for dogs is healthy dog food that's easy to store and serve and your dogs will absolutely love it. Unlike other fresh dog food, Sundays for dogs does not require refrigeration or preparation because of their air drying process. Just pour and serve. Every shipment ships right to your door. You'll never have to worry about running out of dog food ever again. Cancel or pause your subscription anytime with their 100 satisfaction guarantee. Get 40 off your first order of Sundays. Go to sundaysfordogs.com v I a l l or use code v I a l l at checkout out Sundays for dogs.com v I a l l well.

[Listener]

I can tell you one baby item that we will purchase on repeat, on repeat, on repeat. No matter where we are, no matter what we're doing, no matter how many kids we have, the nanit will always be in our lives. It is game changing. It is the Perfect camera for anything that you're doing. It watches your baby and it connects to your phone. It watches your baby and you can hear the nursery, you can hear what's going on while you're doing anything. You could be watching a show on your phone, you could be on a meeting, you could be on the phone call, you could be playing music. Whatever you're doing, you can still hear baby in the background.

[Nick Viall]

Sometimes I put river down for a nap. I'll put on the headphones, listen to a podcast and I can hear river sleeping in the background. And if anything happens, if she wakes up, I can quickly go up to my daughter and make sure she is okay. It's great peace of mind for every parent situation. Whether you are stay at home parents trying to get some extra work around the house and your baby is napping. Or maybe the parents who are busy working on the go have to travel and find want to find ways to stay connected to their kids. The net. It is an absolute must have and a game changer and is a big part of Natalie and I's parenting.

[Listener]

The high def camera means you can actually see your baby so there's no grainy images where you can't see what's happening. I like to zoom in all the time and just like confirm that she's breathing. You know, it's very nice that the quality is that good that I can.

[Nick Viall]

Do that and you can.

[Listener]

Nanit also allows you to track your baby's breathing, sleep pattern patterns and developmental milestones, providing you with personalized insights to understand your baby like never before, all on your Nanit app. This adds up to more sleep for your baby, which means more rest for you. The Nanit baby monitor is changing parenthood for the better. It's one of the baby items we cannot live without. And of course we have a special offer for our listeners. Get 20 off your first order with code BABY20. That's B-A-B-Y20 nanit.com Now N A N-I-T.com Nanit Parenthood looks different here.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Time to break down this week's must watch episodes.

[Natalie Viall]

Honestly, Alex, I didn't binge anything.

[Listener]

But I did switch to T Mobile.

[Natalie Viall]

With their new family freedom offer.

[Jonathan Johnson]

That's not the plot we're following.

[Listener]

Well, I'm writing at and T out.

Of the series and giving T Mobile the starring role.

They paid off my family's four phones up to $3200 and gave us four.

[Natalie Viall]

New phones on the house, house and same.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Introducing family freedom, our lowest Cost will switch our biggest family savings all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com familyfreedom. Up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone 16128 gigabyte $8,029.99 eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel contact Timo Gertie, welcome.

[Nick Viall]

Back to the Vile Files. It's so great to have you. How are you doing?

[Natalie Viall]

I'm doing good. I'm holding up.

[Listener]

Were you kind of like dreading going into this episode or were you, like, looking forward to it?

[Natalie Viall]

You know, it's so funny. I didn't know what to expect because, you know, what I, what I did at my party was out of, you know, obviously huge. It was a huge thing for me internally to struggle with, like, what do I do with this whole thing? You know, when I did decide, I mean, I like, should I do this now? And I just did it, you know, so sometimes you just act and then you think later, like, oh, you know. So it was one of those moments, you know.

[Nick Viall]

Well, first of all, Gertie, I just want to say just my. Not that my opinion matters. I absolutely loved it and I, I wish I.

[Natalie Viall]

We would talk about it, you know, is it entertaining for people watching? Yes. But, you know, it's. It's not my product moment, of course, at all. You know, I never wanted to even get to this space. And what cornered me, you know, is, you know, obviously to be revealed when I talk about the details that led me to just kind of be like, like, when am I going to be heard? You know? And so it was really kind of one of those situations where I just, I don't know, I just snapped, you know, you heard like the show snap. It was one of those things. I'm like, nope, I'm going to do it. You know. So it was one of those things. I don't know.

[Listener]

Can you explain to our audience from your perspective, the beef with Julia? How did it all start? Like, what is her issue with you?

[Natalie Viall]

Okay, so it all started, I guess, with her and herself because there was no beef. We went on a cruise in 2023, guys.

[Listener]

What?

[Natalie Viall]

Yes.

[Guest/Listener]

This is like two years old.

[Natalie Viall]

Yeah, this is November. Or like this December 1st of 2023. And keynote. This is before we even go to season six reunion. Oh, so this is like old guys. I felt. I felt like I was on the Truman Show. I literally was like, what is happening? Please make this stop. Because it was. It was like, surreal to say, you know. So this whole time passes. 20, 23, we go on a beautiful cruise, myself and my husband. There's three different itineraries. So I was day one, which was the two days, and then the next two days was a different group going on this cruise. She was for itinerary 2. I was itinerary 12 passing ships in the night. I go home, and she's on her way there. She then calls me and says, martina can't go anymore. Something's wrong. But the way that she sounds, she's very emotional. And I'm like, is everything okay with Martina? What's going on? And she's like, no, I can't talk about it now. I'm in glam right now, but I'll tell you about it later. And I'm like, well, what's going on? Like, what do you need? Can you come and be with me on the cruise? You hear your friend in distress. You hear something's wrong with Martina. In my mind, I'm thinking, please don't tell me. I'm thinking that you know the worst that is back. And I'm like, okay, okay, I just got home unpacking, but I'll repack. Send me the itinerary. So she. She doesn't tell me on the phone what it is. She tells me to. That she'll tell me on the ship. I get my stuff. I'm like, russell, I'm so sorry. And I'm packing, and even Russell's mom is in the room because she came to watch the kids. And she's like, what happened? Is everything okay with Martina? We're all in line, like, oh, my God, I want to hear the worst news. And I got to be there for her to pick her up off the floor on this cruise. And by the way, the cruise, you're going to hear the word. It was for work. We all had the same offer letter from this cruise. All of the cast members were invited on this cruise. Adriana was on the cruise with me on my first leg. It was barter. It was a cruise for content. That's what it was. It was not a paid anything, FYI.

[Nick Viall]

Okay?

[Natalie Viall]

And so we go on the cruise. The itinerary that I received had everything in order. Dinners here, this and that and so forth. It was on day two, night two. We have the best time on day one, night two. She's. I hear that I am being placed somewhere else to have dinner alone because there's a private reception dinner that she is going to. Now her publicist, who happens to be Alexis Bellino's publicist, you know, tells me, we send you. We're all organized. Your name is on the list. And I'm kind of like, like, okay, I guess I don't make a fuss about it. I go to where I'm swung. I go to the place, and they don't even have my reservation. So now I'm like, oh, my God, how embarrassing. Like, what am I doing on the ship? Yeah, what am I doing on the ship? And the first thing I say when I walk up on the ship and I see her, she's with her publicist. And I'm like, julia, are you okay? Like, is everything okay? She tells me what Martina's issue is, and then I say, well, you're doing networking. You have your PR person there. I can just go home. I was supposed to be packing for Watch what Happens Live. I was, like, going on an airplane in a couple of days.

[Nick Viall]

What is this cruise ship?

[Natalie Viall]

It's just, like, celebrity. It's the ascent from celebrity cruises. So it's. It was just going out to, like, borderline Bahamas and then just coming back home. It was like a whole new ship, you know, showing us the glitz, you know? So I'm literally like, okay, you're good here. You told me what happened to Martina. We're good. And then I stay because she's like, no, no, no, I want you to stay. So she's with a PR person. They go to this private dinner. They swing me out, no problems, until I'm like. Like, realizing I'm like, I'm on this ship for this. The rest of these next four hours, I'm just, like, lollygagging around doing nothing. And then I'm just kind of, like, feeling like this is not really nice because Martina was supposed to be her guest. So this is Captain Sandy, who we were hanging out the night before. Everything was cool. Why couldn't I just be the seat that was dedicated for your plus one? So I say to her on text message, hey, like, I'm here. They don't have my reservation. I'm not mad, but I just feel like, what am I doing here? And I left my family to be here on this cruise with you. I just. Just don't know what to do with myself. And this is, like, weird, right? And so I guess in her mind, that was considered an argument. Like, she even said, oh, I'm so sorry. I wouldn't have asked you to come on the cruise. But anyway, where are you? And we were supposed to meet for drinks later, which we didn't. A year and a half, almost two years later, you bring this on camera.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Natalie Viall]

And not even anything. There was no conversation by phone about it. It was just a text conversation. Almost two years passes by, and the first time that she actually confronts me with it is at the wedding chaos and where she throws the water at me, and I'm kind of like, what is going on?

[Nick Viall]

So she got mad at you because you went home early?

[Natalie Viall]

No, she got mad at me because I questioned why. Why would I not be able to attend the event with you since I'm here for you? So she didn't like the tone and she didn't like the questioning me of what I'm doing. And you should be grateful. So this got turned into, Gertie volunteered to be on a cruise. I just left the cruise. Gertie made everything about her. This is night two, the last event, where I thought on the itinerary, we were going to dinner together, but you swing me somewhere and I'm alone. I made things about me. Gertie was talking crap about Alexia. And I'm like, I was actually imitating your barracuda argument with Alexia in front of Jen Festler. But she takes that out and says, gertie was talking crap about you, Alexia. So for the ladies, I'm kind of like. I can almost understand why they were like, oh, we don't fuck with Gertie. Because you have Julia throughout this entire hiatus that the show's off the air in their ear without me knowing. This whole time, everyone's nice to me, texting me, how the boys, how's your recovery, the whole thing. And then I walk in and no one's inviting me to think. And I'm like, like. So she did a good, you know, Taylor Swift tour on that one, went around the world, talked all that crap. And I'm the one that's like, not in the know of what's going on. So that's the beginning of the season is like, me going like this, like, what's going. What's going on?

[Guest/Listener]

But what's so crazy is the end of last season, you guys were the best of friends.

[Natalie Viall]

So it's just all of us. I was like, I was on a text thread with Marisol, Kiki, Alexia, like, for eight months, just us talking crap. We're trying to make a dinner date. Like, we we're having a good time. And nothing was of this n until closer to filming. I'm starting to hear little whispers. Like, Adriana was like, hey, so how was the cruise? What happened? And then when I heard what happened, I was like, what are you talking about? But in my mind, I'm like, well, Julia couldn't have been talking crap about it because she never bought anything up to me. So the cruise question asked. Kiki asked me, oh, hey, how was the cruise? What happened once and then Adriana twice. This is before filming. And then I was just kind of like, well, I just sent her a cake for her birthday. Like, Martina's, you know, flowers for the recovery. Like, we're not beefing at all. She was sitting on the same couch as me for season six, like, having my back, like, no issues. Can you imagine, like, an issue that in your head you have from season six when you could have brought it up right at the reunion if you wanted to? I guess. Do you wait until the next season on hiatus and bring it up to the screen?

[Listener]

Why do you think she did that?

[Nick Viall]

What does that say to you?

[Natalie Viall]

Okay, well, you know. You know what it says to you? Okay.

[Guest/Listener]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

Thanks, Nora.

[Natalie Viall]

It's kind of like. Like, you gotta come up. And by the way, here's the issue. Julia made a big mistake by getting greedy with her storylines. That's what happened. How beautiful the story of those beautiful boys. Like, stick with your real life.

[Guest/Listener]

Like, don't twist them.

[Natalie Viall]

That's what happened, guys. And it's very easy to see. And I'm just kind of like, why? At my expense? And I have some traumas in the past that I think you're gonna see through. Finally going to therapy. Like, I get triggered when it's the isolating me. Like, the whole. Like, you don't matter. Like, you're below. I have a whole thing with that. So tie this in with this big issue, and the group collectively just kind of being like, I don't know, and letting what happened at the wedding happen to me. It was the biggest trigger ever. And I was like, wow. Wow. You know, so. So these emotions were brewing. And, you know, one thing you learn when you go through something big, like I did, you know, it's like, you tell yourself, I'm a fighter now. I'm a survivor. I'm going to take care of me. The first thing Martina told me was, be selfish. Start taking care of you. And I was like, okay, it's hard to do, but I'm gonna. So now I'm trying to Take care of me. I released what no longer serves me. Wrong place, wrong time. But it was emotions, like, like, no way. We're not doing this. And I needed to in my head, like, slap on the wrist. You don't get to treat me this way again. And I did it at the wrong place. I did it at the wrong time. But I'm human. And I think that people hold this big thing, like, okay, because you have a C word now, you have more responsibility. And it's like the scarlet letter I hold. It's kind of like, damn if I do. Damn if I don't. I'm human. I made a mistake, and I own it. And you'll see that things get way better, by the way. Things get way better. We go to Spain, and we have a great time. But getting there is a process, you know?

[Nick Viall]

Well, again, I. You know, I understand why you're saying you made a mistake. You know, listen, we watched this show for its amazing entertainment, and it was entertaining. So I still want to thank you for choosing to bring the receipts to the party. We know you as an iconic party planner already, and if you could have a bit of fun with me. I am just curious, as a party planner yourself, like, did. When is the perfect time when you're planning a party to, like, drop the receipts at the party? Like, did you go into this party? Like, you know, all right, you know, right, first we're gonna celebrate life. We're gonna say what I need to say, and then, you know, like, right before we get to the. The act, we're gonna drop the receipts, like, when. When is the perfect time to bring the drama at a party? If you want to have a little bit of everything at the perfect party.

[Natalie Viall]

Yeah. Well, the way I did my party is, you know, my husband's not a dancer. My kids are not, you know, into entertainment and all that stuff. Stuff. And, you know, so I. I knew that I had my party, and my. My timeline was like, obviously, main event, after party. So that's what I always do for every wedding I do. I do the biggest weddings ever, and we always do a main event or reception, and then we go into another room, like, for an after party. So in my mind. My mind is trained to think that way. So my event was the main event where I shared my testimony, and of course, it's going to include the C word, you know, like, Demi, like, okay, I had my testimony, and I cried, and I thanked my husband, gave him flowers, and then I had two friends listen to this, because the spin on it was a cancer survivor fundraiser charity in a church is to me, like, so slanderous to even think that I would do all these things. Two friends of mine, who actually are my friend's friends, as were 30 people in the room. This was not for patrons of the cancer association that gave a donation to attend my event. These were my friends, friends that I hang out with all the time. Like, hey, I'm having a little party, you know, whatever, Celebrating being cancer free. Come over, we're filming. That's what it was. Two of them happened to have breast cancer. Okay, they're my friends, you know? And then what I said to myself is, okay, the Knot is presenting me this amazing party because it was my magazine cover launch. And I'm like, I don't want it to be, like, about me. Like, just like, oh, thank you. And look at my cover. So I was like, oh, I spoke to my girls. I made a group called Support yout Girlfriends. And we go out every year to Bermuda. We have the best of funding. So about supporting each other's businesses and supporting whatever. And then, like, Gertie, my God, can I present a check? Because we have this 10k. And we were going to do it for this foundation, which is one of the girlfriends who was at the event. But let's do it on stage to bring awareness to the two organizations. In my mind, I'm like, of course. Why not? Why not? It's my party. I'm doing my testimony. And instead of just being about the big cover, I'm like, let me also have them pay it forward and present your check. So now it's a cancer survivor charity event. And I did this on top of it. And I'm like, no, the event was, like, wrapped up of the main act. And the second part was like, you see me immediately say, okay, let's have fun. And, you know, rocky Lanes. And the band starts playing. So that was completely different from the first act. The band was not there on the first act. It was the second act of the event.

[Listener]

You didn't go into the party, like, planning this. You only, like, you did it on the spot after you heard what she had said to your husband, right?

[Natalie Viall]

So the night of the water toss, right, when she threw the water. And I'm hearing this for the first time by volunteering to go to the. I went home and I was like, okay, we're going to bring these receipts together. Because one day, one of these moments, I'm going to show the girls I went out to lunch with Alexia. I'm like, this is not true. Let me tell you about the cruise. I went to dinner with Kiki. She's lying. Miguel and Kiki were stretching. I told Kiki, like, I'm trying to tell you my truth. Larsa, even at the wedding, goes, you know what? Julia has a lot of things, Gertie, but she's not a liar. And I'm looking at her like this. The system is rigged. They're not going to believe me. No one's going to believe me. So after I've attempted, I'm like, guys, even at the wedding, I'm trying to tell them, and she can't handle the truth. And she tries to stop me by doing the water toss. And I'm like, okay, so I already had my compilation of my text messages just off to the side. And then it wasn't until I'm like, okay, I want to do it. And you hear me say to my assistant, okay, I just sent you something and we're doing this. Like, when I say go, you go. That's what happened. You see it on screen. So was it in the back of my mind to reveal them? Of course. Did I have a specific time or place? Not yet. Because I was like, let's see what the producers had me film with these girls. And then the next opportunity was my party. And when I heard that she was still victimizing herself and like, oh, we're in a better place, and she broke the pact that she created for us, I'm like, I just can't. Like, I can't let this go on.

[Nick Viall]

What did the screenshots in your mind show and reveal? Because I think there was some confusion with the audience and even the rest of the women, because there seemed to be a lot there, a lot of conversation. But in your mind, as I think one of the producers asked in the show, like, what was your smoking gun? Like, what was the thing that you were trying to get across? Like, what did you want the audience or the women to, like, see in terms of, like, what your point was about Julia?

[Natalie Viall]

Okay, so first of all, I redacted all the names. So when I went and redacted the names, right? I'm like, what? Like, you know, no one who was at the party would look at it and be like, it's her. Shame, shame to her. Because you don't even know who it's for. So the name on top that said Julia on my phone, that was redacted. Martina's name, name, everybody's name. So all this was was context to tell them. You say, I've what Julia was trying to get out to the girls is like, look at Gertie. She's so thirsty. She makes everything about her. And then she's, you know, she's just selfish and she's an opportunist. And I'm like, but I. The fact. The core of the whole thing was, like, I literally dropped everything. I had to go. I'm like, I'm going to be there for you. What do you need initially? And then you were with your pr. You're like, oh, no, I'm going to need you. Just stay. And I'm now a seat filler. So it was the feeling of feeling like. Like, I'm here for you, but then all of a sudden, you disregard me when you need to. But then come to the spa with me. Okay, now you don't have dinner with us. Go over there. That feeling comes from my past of just the neglect, being neglected, and just feeling like I'm not good enough to do this with you. That's where that core is. And everyone could judge me and say, no. Well, you should have still never for made mistakes. And I honestly, it came from the bottom of emotional hurt. I was so hurt that this is a person who was by my bedside. This is the person who should have known better. Like, this is like, to come for me, out of all people, when I'm just getting back on my feet and you want to cut me at my knees. That was really hard, but really hard. But the context of the text was to show I'm not the person she's painting to be. Like, look at this. She says, I volunteered. I would not have suggested for you to leave your kids in Russell to come be on the cruise with me. Is that volunteering? You tell me. These people that make things about me and the whole cruise, I was talking about me, me, me. And I didn't check on Martina. You'll see the receipts in coming days. Of course I asked for about Martina. That was all I was doing is thinking, what happened? Why wouldn't. Why would I go on the cruise and not ask? So what happened? That was the whole reason I was there. But she literally told them, I never checked on Martina once. And I made everything about me. That's huge, guys. Do you understand that? And so for me to hear that, I'm like, my good intentions are never going to be. They're never going to land. She's going to pay me out to be like, I just. I want you on the cruise. And I move over. Move your bed over. I'M going to. I just got on the same cruise and was in the same big two bed, two story suite as you. Why do you think that I'm like the hell. Like, just come on. You were here. I give you pity. Like a pity party. That. That hurt me so bad and I kept it for weeks and weeks and trying to tell people. No one will listen. So if there's anyone out there who has had an issue when the truth is so clear and I'm not lying and they're called a liar, and it's like no one wants to hear your truth. Everyone's gone through that.

[Nick Viall]

Well, we're listening, Gertie, and we're. We're so glad that you.

[Natalie Viall]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Shared that with us and. And got it out. Switching gears a little bit, Alexia, this past episode referred to the rest of her cast as narcissist and also mentioned that she can't be a narcissist because she's an empath. And I just would love to have your thoughts on that.

[Natalie Viall]

Okay, we. The first step is to admit. We all know that in any. The first step is to say, hi, I'm Gertie, and I up. You know, I might, you know, but like, you gotta start taking accountability. And Alexia, of course, is a narcissist, as we are all. So I'm not saying it's only her because you know what they try to do. You gurdy, you're too loud, you interrupt, it's all about you. But we all have the same traits and I think that's why we all put together to create this show. So it's hypocritical, obviously, but, you know, I still love her for it.

[Nick Viall]

I always say if you've accused more than two people to be a narcissist, you're probably a narcissist, you know. Right.

[Natalie Viall]

Everybody is, I think, on the cast. I think everybody is on the cast. Yeah.

[Listener]

Going back to the, you know, Grecian party, the narcissist party. What made you want to get between Larsa and Lisa?

[Natalie Viall]

Oh, my God, guys, I don't know what the heck that was. I don't. I didn't even know until I saw it that it was actually a throne and you had this red backdrop. It was so gaudy. I was like, oh, my God. And I guess maybe subconsciously I was kind of like, well, let me get into this mess, because no one got into mine. When I got water thrown and hurt in my face and jumping up and so forth, no one flinched. And I was like, you Know what? Let's have a talk. You guys go ahead. Don't let him win. You need to apologize. I don't know what that was about, but that was actually so funny. Oh, my God. When I looked back at it, I thought I was cringing.

[Listener]

You just wanted to deviate.

[Natalie Viall]

Yeah. I failed bigly. I failed bigly.

[Listener]

What do you feel like Julia would need to do to get back into your good graces?

[Natalie Viall]

Well, I don't think she. She. I don't think she wants to, actually, because, you know, at the premiere party itself, she says, oh, I want Gertie to stay as far away as. As possible. And it's. It's kind of like if you look at the sit down that we have when we. The first attempt, when we try to hatch it out. She only apologized for throwing the water. That's it. And demanded of me to apologize for the reaction after. The water was so boss. Negating her, attacking me, negating her over me and. And screaming. And I. And I fell for it. I was kind of like, because this is. That's not in my character. So I'm like, okay, so if I was unhinged, I'm sorry. But then I'm. Afterwards, I'm like, but wait, she didn't apologize for anything. So the lies continued. And then she says, I'm gonna definitely never talk to the girls about whatever we talk about. They'll stay between us. And then at the narcissist party, unwarranted, the guy's like, moving on. And she stops. What about me? To shame me again in front of the girls. Like, I'm like some kind of crazy, scary. What does she call me? Psychopath scary. And that's. That's a pathological liar. And I'm like, okay, I Like, how do I. How do I combat this? When no one is going to question her and. And no one's going to listen to me, you know?

[Listener]

So, yeah, I mean, how did that feel to have no one had your back? I mean, it's like you've known these women for so long and, like, yeah.

[Natalie Viall]

Well, you know, well, Lisa and Adriana weren't there, and. And you'll see. Actually, Stephanie, you know, steps up and, like, listen. I'm gonna listen to what's going on in there. And they don't like it now. It's kind of like, oh, we don't want to hear the truth right now. La la la. We're too busy making a big deal about the type of party and the. When that she did it. And we're too busy judging all that. Not that they didn't even want to hear, like, the facts that would validate and just kind of squash the whole thing. So in my head was like, okay, you know, I'm going to. Like, I went to ChatGPT. I was like, okay, like, I already had, you know, like, just kind of like, this is what I want to say when I get an opportunity. And then all of a sudden when I'm like, I'm gonna send it. I'm like, okay, Chat GPT. And that's when that speech comes up quick. And I'm like, okay, the truth about my party. Okay. So it was really kind of like. Like I thought that that would be in my mind, I guess, at that time, gonna be the one that solidified the start over in a way. But obviously it didn't. And, you know, so I should have probably, like, took a beat and calmed my anger and just, like, thought about it till the next day and maybe come up with another plan. But if not, then when in my mind, because when I think of it, it's like the reunion, it gets edited. You know, you don't see anything. And then chaos and confusion. People are talking over each other. So it would have never landed, I guess, in my mind then. So I just felt like, this is the opportunity. Now. Do it now. Like now. So, boom, I just did it. I just did it. And, you know, timing was not perfect at all.

[Nick Viall]

I'm sure we'll obviously get to see a lot as the season unfolds in the reunion. But as much as you can, answer how. Where do you sit with the women today?

[Natalie Viall]

Well, actually, you know, Alexia, I think, starts now starting to realize the bigger picture, you know, because her and I had actually a conversation a couple weeks ago, maybe two weeks ago, three weeks ago. And I talked to her, and she's like, gertie, I didn't know. And I was like, but, Alexia, I tried to tell you. And I guess she's finally realizing. She goes, I didn't. I didn't understand, you know, like, I didn't understand the severity of, like, every single thing. Every single thing was a lie. Every single thing. And she's like, you know, but why would she do that? And I'm like, I can't answer that, Alexia. But, like, this is where we are, you know, so you. I think. And in her interview recently, she says, you know, she wishes she could have done more. So I'm happy to hear that, because, you know what? We were good until this spin, this slenderous tour that she was on. And so now I feel like people, you know, like, you know, Larsa texted me something about the narcissist party. She goes, oh, my God, Dr. Phil, you're so funny. You know, so, like, I think everyone's kind of like feeling each other out because. And when you see the way that we ended the season, we end on a great note. But when you watch it back and I'm sitting here not realizing what's happening behind my back, and I'm watching like a viewer, and I'm kind of like, wait, so that's why Alexis didn't invite me to that party, because she thought the same. Talking point, mind you, I make things about me, which is exactly what Julia said. So the trickle down effect of the damage from. For eight months of the whole time that we were on hiatus carries itself into the season. And you have girls with talking points that don't even understand the severity of how it's making me look bad. And I'm like, now, Now I think people are just kind of waking up like, shit. Because, you know, Julia is very soft spoken. And, you know, it's like, you know, it allures you to, oh, oh. And it alert me. I thought I had a friend in her.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah.

[Natalie Viall]

And just so that, you know, like, Martina, I want to actually kind of defend her because. Because at the first. The first episode, which was Jodie's birthday party, remember that?

[Listener]

Yeah.

[Natalie Viall]

Before you see her get nasty, she's nice. I'm literally like, okay, what. How the boys. What is the name? And then she tells me the names that they changed them to. And then she's like, okay, well, you know, and then I think she gets a look from Julia and then all of a sudden it's like cold. Oh, oh. And then. And then the dismissal, and then that same kind of feeling that I get, get that triggers me of like, what. How. How are they treating me this way? What did I do? That's. You know, so it was a repeat of that kind of feeling carrying itself over and over again. And I was just kind of like, oh, no, this is. She can't. I. I'm gonna snap. Like, this is, you know, this is too much. You know, the. The victimization. And then it's at my expense and making me look like I did something and I did nothing to her.

[Nick Viall]

Thank you for answering our questions. That relates to Housewives stepping away from the Housewives drama of it all and getting to some just more important stuff before we let you go. How's the family? How's your health? How are you doing?

[Natalie Viall]

So, yeah, I'm great. You know, I won't talk about the little things because you know what? I do appreciate what I have and some people have it worse. And so I'm just kind of glad that I'm over the hump and I'm doing great. My family is amazing. My son just graduated my oldest high school, so now he's going into college and we just came back from Japan celebrating him, so. That's really good. That's really good. Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Garthy, it's always a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you for coming on and sharing your truth and giving us context. Everything that we got to see this past episode. Where can my audience find you, follow you and all that fun stuff as we follow your journey.

[Natalie Viall]

Yes. Gertie design on Instagram. I'm not so much of a TikTok person, but Gertie design on TikTok as well. I kind of keep a low key, low profile type of thing. So Instagram is my big platform that I go on and obviously see the Real Housewives of Miami on Wednesdays, 9pm on Peacock and Bravo.

[Nick Viall]

Jody, always a pleasure. Thanks for taking the time. I hope we get to talk to you again soon.

[Natalie Viall]

Thank you, guys.

[Listener]

Take care.

[Natalie Viall]

Bye.

[Nick Viall]

Bye.

[Listener]

Thank you so much.

[Natalie Viall]

Bye, guys.

[Listener]

They can never make me hate you.

You've never done anything wrong. You're an icon.

[Natalie Viall]

Oh, God, Obviously I make mistakes. Thank you guys so much.

[Listener]

Thanks, Ger.

[Natalie Viall]

Bye.

[Nick Viall]

Bye. Anything we want to unpack from that? Are we ready to get into some oc?

[Guest/Listener]

They just could never make me hate her. That's all I have to say. I love her. Yeah, right. She's straight up. She comes with the facts, the receipts. No stutter, no stumble.

[Listener]

I was gonna say I was hanging out with Captain Sandy already.

[Nick Viall]

She makes a good point. It's usually the quiet ones are a little sneaky.

[Natalie Viall]

That's.

[Listener]

Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there.

[Guest/Listener]

But yeah, I was like, why would you need to bring a friend if you had your publicist with you? Literally, like, that makes zero sense.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Alexis Bellino's publicist.

[Guest/Listener]

The name drops. James Fessler of it all. I was like, oh, my God, wait, I love Jen Fessler. Side the fact that, like, she's just casually, like, and from New Jersey and from Orange County. And I was like, okay, Gertie Alexis Bellina.

[Nick Viall]

According to Shannon Bedor, she is no longer public enemy number one because that title is now going to Katie.

[Listener]

No.

And I, it has, you know, know.

[Nick Viall]

I, I, I like to think of myself as a Shannon Beador. Stan. But Alexis was an excellent villain, and let's just not bury that already. Like, that was a whole season of just horrible, horrible treatment towards you. Why are we so quick to.

[Listener]

That's like having Hannibal Lecter as your villain and then, like, one of the FBI guys becomes the number one op in the next movie. You know what I mean?

[Natalie Viall]

That.

[Listener]

Well, we do have a rapid recap for your Real Housewives of Orange County. If you didn't get this episode, it is time for episode three, Knee Deep in Lies. Okay, so Katie and Gina are cool again because they bonded over a scalp treatment. Shannon's still mad at Katie for recording her crash out, and still single, but she's wearing matching bowling shirts with her friend Adam to a function, which is diva behavior. I cannot lie. Then we've got Tamara still in therapy, still hating Gretchen, and maybe about to get sued by Ryan because the whole FBI thing. Speaking of Ryan, Jen is mad at Heather because she doesn't want to invite Ryan to her birthday party. Tamara, FBI. But let's get to the main event. Heather Dubrow's birthday party. Her birthday was two months ago, but it's incredible and fabulous, and she has french fries alongside caviar bumps. No one uses their money better. At the event, Jen and Ryan show up, and Tamra is nowhere to be seen. I have to throw in that Ryan showed up a day after he had knee surgery just to make sure.

[Nick Viall]

That was crazy. Yeah, this guy is trying to be a fan favorite so bad. He's like, I have no knees. But, yeah, I'm. I'm there.

[Guest/Listener]

Not no knees.

[Listener]

Shannon comes with her friend Phil. Not the bowling alley guy, but it's Phil from Love Hotel, who is just a friend, but it seems like she may be in her sled era just a tad. Gina thinks it's entertaining. Can't help but agree. Also, Gretchen reveals that she broke Slade's penis, and now when he gets hard, it's curved, which we don't need to know, girl. But then Shannon and Katie get into it about the video recording of the crash out. Shannon tells Katie that she violated her, and she's now categorically John Jansen level evil. She's worse than Alexis Bolino, worse than Tamara Judge, and Shannon vows to never speak to her again. Overall, will Jen's son pay for my student loans? Will anyone try to dip a French fry in the caviar at Heather's birthday party? Will Shannon be contractually obligated to break her vow of silence against Katie. I guess we'll just have to wait to see.

[Nick Viall]

I want to start with Jen and her son's student loan saga.

[Listener]

That's crazy.

It's getting a little scammy, right?

[Nick Viall]

I.

[Listener]

You know, you could not catch me paying for my sibling student loans.

No, no, no, no, no.

[Nick Viall]

But like, well, it's. Can you Google this and can we do a little real time fact finding? I have had a few friends join the military. And upon such time joining the military, I'm not sure if it. Their. Their credit gets wiped or their like records get wiped or. But something. There's some truth to that where, like, once you join the military as like, you know, a reward to like putting your life on the line country, all.

[Listener]

Debt is like paid off.

[Nick Viall]

Something like that gets forgiven. Or. Or you're. Or. Or something like that.

[Jonathan Johnson]

It's not guaranteed, but there are options available for debt relief.

[Guest/Listener]

Yeah. Joining military doesn't automatically wipe out your existing debts or erase your credit history. However, service members may be eligible for certain protections and programs that can help with managing and reducing debt, especially regarding student loans and interest rates.

[Nick Viall]

Okay, so it seems like Deb dad knows about this loophole and is therefore trying to pile on his son's debt with the assumption that the government or the armed forces will forgive that debt. Am I. Does that sound. Is that. Am I understanding the scam correctly?

[Listener]

Allegedly.

[Nick Viall]

Allegedly.

[Listener]

Allegedly.

[Guest/Listener]

That sounds correct. Because Ryan did make a point too, saying that he wished that the father was more hands on and that he's a little bit more hands on.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Off.

[Listener]

I mean, Ryan being like, I would never put that on my child. Yeah, that's a lot.

[Natalie Viall]

Yeah.

[Listener]

If Ryan's not doing it.

Ryan. Alleged.

[Nick Viall]

It takes a Ryan to sniff out.

[Guest/Listener]

A. I was gonna say. That's true. What is it? An alleged scammer.

[Nick Viall]

Did anyone notice how Ryan's teeth matched his new white T shirt?

[Listener]

It wasn't a T shirt. Why was he wearing a hoodie? A white hoodie with a blazer jacket? Suit jacket.

[Nick Viall]

Because men's fashion. Like men.

[Listener]

No, he's at a Heather Dubrow black tie.

[Natalie Viall]

His.

[Listener]

His wife is in a gown.

[Nick Viall]

Men. Most men will freeze their fashion in whatever they think was popular when they were, like, going out to the bars.

[Listener]

Have you seen Adam Sandler on a red carpet?

[Guest/Listener]

Are we gonna act like we didn't watch last season when he goes to pick out clothing and it was like paint splatter, like graffiti on a button down, like, babe, it's.

[Listener]

But it's just like you did, like, you wore the Suit jacket. So, like you said, just needed to be, like, comfy, cozy underneath and, like, wear your hoodie that's kind of look.

Like the guy from Subway Surfers.

It's like, I like, it's. It's.

[Guest/Listener]

It's business casual. The casual is the hoodie. The business is the blazer.

[Natalie Viall]

Yeah.

[Guest/Listener]

It's the best I got.

[Listener]

Okay.

But, I mean, Jen's reaction at that restaurant to Heather, I feel like was warranted.

[Guest/Listener]

Yeah. Tamara said that her lawyer recommended that if Ryan and Jen were going to be there, specifically Ryan, that she shouldn't come. Then Heather was like, well, I want you all to come. I just wanted to see how you felt about, like, maybe if, like, Ryan didn't come. And then that's when Jen was like, no, you either invite Ryan or, you know, you're choosing Tamara. And Tamara's not a good friend.

[Listener]

I love Tamra until the day that I die. Does that mean I agree with everything she does? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. But I do love her. I think she is great housewife. She's an iconic housewife. She's the only housewife who honestly gives me what I need these days. But, like, you know, I think Jen was valid and being like she had. She told the world my house was raided by the FBI when it never was. Like, that caused issues for my children and, like, yeah, definitely, you know, warranted.

[Guest/Listener]

That's why it's like, Tamara's, like, messy in a way that's very intentional. Like, we obviously know she's going to show up to the party with somebody that's going to cause some drama, and it's like, she's. She's a great housewife in the sense of being intentional about it. But I think it's funny. The entire episode is about her not taking accountability, which she does reason everything that she does. In comparison, I feel like Katie. I think Katie's a little messy, but I think it was a little unintentional as well. Like, I think Tamara would have sent. Showed that to Alexis, knowing the legal. Legality of it and everything, where I'm like, I feel like Katie sent that voice recording or audio recording or video recording based off of, like, showing it to Alexis as friends. But I don't think she thought about the fact of, like, the legal implications, the way that Shannon's, like, accusing her of.

[Listener]

Kitty's that friend that you're just like, girl.

[Guest/Listener]

I think she's just trying to find her place.

[Listener]

I'm like, I. You're trying, and I want to support you, but you Gotta think. You gotta, like, think about the repercussions of your actions. But I mean that with all the love in my heart.

[Guest/Listener]

And I. I genuinely do think that she didn't think what she did was that big of a deal until it's being explained to her. And even then, she's still trying to reason it, so.

[Natalie Viall]

Yeah.

[Nick Viall]

Yeah. But it's tough when really smart people act stupid. And I don't know Katie personally, but she seems like a very intelligent person.

[Listener]

I mean, she was like, defend. She's like, well, no, you came in and it was a shared space. And I'm on a zoom call with business part. It's like she was definitely trying to defend her. Her part recording. And Shannon being like, you go the outside, like, you walk out of where it's noisy. If I take a phone call in a restaurant. Restaurant and it's noisy, I'm not like, everyone, please quiet down. I'm on a call. I step outside.

[Guest/Listener]

Like, well, and Shannon did make a good point with the. Like, it wasn't that important because you did hang up on them to record me.

[Listener]

That is true.

[Nick Viall]

I'm curious, Sierra specifically, who's been married to. I mean, everyone. The question for everyone, but how do.

[Listener]

You view, like, not Natalie, including Sierra specifically, Mary too, Everyone.

[Natalie Viall]

Happy to be here.

[Nick Viall]

Reality TV in general. Like, you know, in every platform, it seems like they kind of have, like, the types of reality TV love competition shows. Love island, like, and then Bravo Universe seems to be this very specific universe where it's like, how scripted is it versus staged, you know, like, bad beh. It's just like, we've heard rumors about bonuses being paid to, like, people who are more interested. And it's like, we've talked, you know, to people like Tom Schwartz, where it's just like, sometimes it'd be like, well, you know, sometimes you lean into it for. For tv, and I'm just like, where. Where do you draw the line between, like, Tamara, for example, like, when we meet Tamara in person, you know, she's charming, she's engaging. She. I don't. She seems cool. Right? And then she does things on camera where you're just like, that. That. That's tough, you know, but, like, do we do. I'm curious here. Do you give them a pass because they're performing as housewives, like, doing a job with the assumption that it's not, like, it's not real reality tv, it's Bravo reality tv or, like, Versus, you know, like a love competition show, like Love island, where it's like, they're not in on it with producers. They're. They're not doing scenes. They're. They're thrown into a very controlled environment, you know, cut off from the outside world and thrown into a fire and. And told to react. And I'm just like, where do you. And I feel like a lot of Bravo is debating the characters of these people versus, like, what is, like, unforgivable behavior or versus, like, what is, like, just messy drama. Does that make sense?

[Guest/Listener]

Yeah. It's a tough question, though, because it's like, I don't know. I've seen some. Some crazy shit. And especially earlier seasons of Housewives, there were no. There were no boundaries.

[Listener]

I mean, Kim Richards is this thing.

[Guest/Listener]

Anything was touchable. Alcoholism, family, whatever. I think it's mainly, like, where I'm like, my issue with Tamara, for example, is that it's. That, you know, it's the same stuff over and over again every season where it's just like, I wish I could have a season where I just enjoyed you enjoying people, but I'm at the same time, that's not what the show is about, and that's not who her character is. Like, I don't know if that is who she is is, or if that's the character she feels like she has to show up for as for the next three months of filming. So, like, that's where it does get hard, because then it's like, when you see what they're doing on their outside life, some of these reality TV stars, I don't follow or, like, I don't see, like, whatever charities they're a part of, whatever else they're doing to, like, give back. I'm seeing you for three months and then unfollowed, and, you know, until you pop back up on my screen. So it's kind of hard to judge. So the only way that I really judge is how they come back the next season and after, like, how deplorable, whatever their behavior was the previous season. How are you showing up and how are you righting your wrongs? Or are you going to commit to it? And if you're committing to it, everybody loves a good villain. They're just not my favorites on the cast, generally, because sometimes I'm like, I feel like, for example, Gertie. How Gertie reacted in that situation, I understand now because I'm like, yeah, if I was felt to be crazy or that I'm a liar based off of the truth that I'm telling, like, that would get frustrating. So I don't know how drastic I would go knowing that I only have X amount of time to get this story out, to get the truth out and what's actually going to end up in the episode versus, versus what's cut. So I'm like, she knew that she had to make this grand announcement because that's gonna make an episode versus pulling Julia to the side and having a one on one.

[Listener]

So who's your favorite on oc?

[Natalie Viall]

Oh, that's hard.

[Guest/Listener]

I actually just unfollowed Jen, so I'm.

[Nick Viall]

Like, I don't you unfollowed Jen.

[Guest/Listener]

I just wasn't interested. Yeah, pretty brutal, I guess. Heather Dubrow. But that's just because I'm like, but Heather's so on her own planet that it's just like. And I consistently get the same thing. I get my champers, I get my caviar bumps. I get my, my luxury boards.

[Nick Viall]

They're, they're playing a little fast and loose with these Heather Rich parties because, like, I think we all know who's throwing these parties. And if you're going to just talk about how expensive these parties are, it can't look like there's 12 people in the background. You know what I'm saying?

[Guest/Listener]

Like, it's hard to get an invite to an HD event.

[Listener]

You know, it definitely wasn't giving summer house party, full invite, like full sen.

[Nick Viall]

Have no doubt that Heather and Terry are wealthy and have a ton of money. And I'm sure Heather has thrown parties that she's actually paid for by herself. And I'm sure they've been iconic and I think they're just conveying that brand.

[Listener]

You don't think that she paid for that party?

[Nick Viall]

No, I don't think. Bravo. I don't think any of these people pay for any of these trips or parties, period. I, I, if it's on camera, it's part of the show. If it's part of the storyline, it's part of production. It's just, just like, come on, this isn't WWE wrestling in the 80s, people. Come on. Like, let's be real. But like, you know, like, at least, at least fill the room. You know what I'm saying? Fill the room.

[Listener]

Was Gretchen there? Because I missed her.

[Guest/Listener]

Yes, she was. Yeah. Talking about where Tamara is and how she has.

[Listener]

Oh, that was Slade's penis. And she broke Slade's penis. I will say that Gretchen, I have not watched early seasons of oc I do not know the Gretchen lore, but the way she came out full body with it's not the same.

[Nick Viall]

Same.

[Listener]

She's taking it for me this season.

[Nick Viall]

No, she's really been enjoyable to watch.

[Listener]

No. Tamara's response with, oh, okay, evil. Ten times better.

Like, that's. I think that's what's gonna make Tamara work this season is she has, like, the whole, like, I'm in therapy, I'm healing, I'm learning about my traumas. And then as soon as that happened, bam, Biggest threat comes in. It's literally.

[Natalie Viall]

It's giving wwe.

[Listener]

It's like you're bringing in the heavy weight of Gretchen to, like, finally put Tamara in her place. And, like, like, how does she handle this? And I'm locked in.

[Guest/Listener]

They're going to go.

[Nick Viall]

He suspected his dick would be on blast.

[Guest/Listener]

I don't think Slade gives a. I don't think so. His name is Slade.

[Listener]

Did y. Emily's husband was super uncomfortable during that conversation.

Totally.

Did y' all look at his face the entire time?

[Guest/Listener]

They just met.

[Listener]

Yeah.

[Guest/Listener]

He's like.

[Listener]

He's like.

[Guest/Listener]

And I'm thinking about your dick right now.

[Natalie Viall]

Okay.

[Nick Viall]

If I bring bowling shoes to bowling alley? Is that hot or is that a nick?

[Listener]

How good are you a bowler?

[Natalie Viall]

Bowling?

[Nick Viall]

Does it matter?

[Listener]

I mean, I feel like carrying your shoes with you, like, through a parking lot into the place.

[Nick Viall]

Better than roller skates.

[Listener]

I would say roller skates is better than bowling.

[Natalie Viall]

Why do you.

[Guest/Listener]

Why do you want your feelings to get hurt?

[Nick Viall]

I am proud about my roller skating ability, and I cannot wait till my daughter's going up to roller skating. She already. We already danced together. She loves to dance. And I cannot wait till our Saturday morning roller skating outings. And you can all yourselves, because all the other dads will look like losers on the sidelines. And I will be spinning, doing twirls. Yeah. Gliding on that hardwood floor that they call a roller skating rink. And I'll think I'm hot.

[Guest/Listener]

That's all that matters.

[Listener]

That's all that matters. I support it.

[Nick Viall]

All right, well, I think that'll do it for this episode. Thank you to our guests, Jonathan Johnson and Gertie A brief. We appreciate them both coming on and appreciate you guys listening. We'll see you back on Thursday for another jam packed episode. We'll see you then. Bye. Bye.