E977 - Perfect Match w/ Rachel Recchia, BIP w/ Bailey, Miguel & Louis Drama, Valley Casting, RHOC and RHOM

Summary

The Viall Files Episode E977 Summary: Perfect Match, BIP Drama, and Real Housewives Updates

Release Date: August 5, 2025
Guests: Rachel Recchia (Perfect Match), Bailey Brown (Bachelor in Paradise), Tamara Judge (Real Housewives of Orange County)

---

1. Hosts' Personal Health Journey

• Nick Viall and Natalie Joy open the episode by sharing a vulnerable moment about battling the stomach flu.
• Nick (01:12) recounts a terrifying night when he feared his wife, Natalie, might not survive the illness:

  "I thought she wasn't going to make it."

• Natalie (01:25) vividly describes her experience of being so ill that she wished the moment had been recorded for authenticity:

  "I was throwing up press record... it was the worst night of my entire life."

---

2. Introduction to Episode's Topics

• Nick (05:20) outlines the episode's focus:
  • Rachel Recchia discussing her experience on "Perfect Match."
  • Bailey Brown addressing conflicts involving Jeremy from "Bachelor in Paradise."
  • Drama surrounding Miguel & Louis from "Love Island USA."
  • Castings for "Valley Casting," and updates on "Real Housewives of Orange County (RHOC)" and "Real Housewives of Miami (RHOM)."

---

3. Rachel Recchia on "Perfect Match"

• Rachel, a former Bachelorette and star of "Perfect Match," shares insights about rekindling a romance with Clayton:

  • Discusses the challenges and confusion during their reunion:

    "We sat down and talked about the difference between the Bachelor and this show, what's happened so far, and his spiritual journey." (35:42)

• Nick probes into Clayton's behavior and intentions:

  "He said, 'we're both better versions of ourselves.'"

• Rachel (09:25) clarifies misconceptions about Louis's social media activity:

  "The people you thought I was close to... we're walking two different paths."

---

4. Tamara Judge on "Real Housewives of Orange County" and "Perfect Match"

• Tamara Judge, a mainstay from RHOC, delves into her experience on "Perfect Match" alongside Freddie:

  • Expresses frustration over Clayton's inconsistent behavior:

    "He eventually decided he couldn't do it... it wasn't even about us." (35:07)

• Tamara (27:06) discusses the emotional turmoil of repeatedly facing rejection:

  "Every time with Clayton, I was in a state of absolute delusion... What does he smell like? Is it really that good?"

• Hosts and Tamara analyze Clayton's decision-making and emotional responses:

  "He's trying to adjust every single time... He's just trying to be a good guy." (36:10)

• Tamara shares her observations on "Real Housewives of Miami (RHOM)":

  "They're trying to sell that house, but it's just not packed... it's like, what's going on in these mattress stores?"

---

5. Bailey Brown on "Bachelor in Paradise" (BIP) Drama

• Bailey Brown, a contestant from BIP, discusses the intense drama involving Jeremy and Susie Evans:
  • Reflects on watching back pivotal moments:

    "It's been rough to watch these happen... Remember how you felt in the moment." (64:28)

• Bailey (67:24) comments on Brian's behavior towards Parisa:

  "I feel like Brian is processing his energy differently... I don't think he's a dick, though."

• Discussion centers around the emotional impact of reality TV relationships and the authenticity of on-screen portrayals:

  "I'm just trying to be okay watching it back and just having... I just have to focus on me and my feelings." (69:42)

---

6. Drama and Dynamics in "Love Island USA"

• Nick and Co-hosts debate the unfolding drama between Miguel, Louis, and Hutta:
  • Rachel details the fallout from Miguel and Louis being spotted together in London:

    "Miguel and Louis are best friends from London... They were roommates for a minute." (07:28)

  • Rachel emphasizes the real reasons behind the unfollowing on social media:

    "They did it because as women, the reasoning behind why he was dating her didn't sit right with them." (08:07)

---

7. Insights on "Real Housewives of Miami" and "Real Housewives of Orange County"

• Tamara, Rachel, and Bailey provide rapid recaps and critiques of the latest episodes:

  • RHOM Highlights include:

    "Julia and Martina are in their boy mom era... Just a little prayer for peace on the way." (85:09)

  • RHOC Highlights feature:

    "Tamara throws a baby rumor on national television that Jen cheated on Ryan and compared her to Norman Bates himself." (94:00)

• Hosts discuss the authenticity and editing strategies used in these shows:

  "Tamara has the ability to hold and release at the perfect time... It's the blueprint for Housewives as we know them." (91:58)

---

8. Upcoming Episodes and Guest Appearances

• Nick teases future content:
  • "Tomorrow, we have a grand slam Going Deeper with iconic housewife Tamara Judge."
  • "Thursday features Clayton Eckhart from Perfect Match and Hannah Godwin from Bachelor in Paradise."

---

9. Notable Quotes

• Nick Viall (01:01):

  "Welcome back to another exciting episode of The Viall Files Reality Recap edition."

• Natalie Joy (00:32):

  "You can make a difference in someone's life, including your own with a job in home care."

• Tamara Judge (35:07):

  "Every time with Clayton, I was in a state of absolute delusion."

• Bailey Brown (64:28):

  "Watching it back is such an interesting thing. I feel like you're watching it happen in real time."

---

10. Conclusion

• Nick wraps up the episode by thanking guests and previewing upcoming content, emphasizing a mix of reality TV drama, personal insights, and engaging discussions.
• Final Remarks focus on maintaining authenticity amidst the curated chaos of reality television, highlighting the hosts' commitment to providing genuine relationship advice alongside pop culture commentary.

---

Note: Advertisements, promotional segments, and non-content interruptions within the transcript have been excluded to focus on the core discussions and insights of the episode.

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Natalie]

You can make a difference in someone's.

[Rachel]

Life, including your own with a job in home care.

[Natalie]

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[Tamara]

Visit oregonhomecarejobs.com to learn more and apply.

[Natalie]

That's oregonhomecarejobs.com.

[Rachel]

You'Re crazy.

[Nick]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap edition. I'm your host, Nick. My wife is back. She's alive. She's doing well.

[Natalie]

My gosh.

[Nick]

It was, it was touch and go. I thought she, I thought she wasn't going to make it.

[Natalie]

I honestly, I wish I could have been that bitch. I wish I could have been that influencer that in the midst, grabbed my phone, put it on a tripod as.

[Rachel]

You were throwing up press record.

[Natalie]

The way I was sleeping on the bathroom floor on a towel, wrapped in a robe with a bowl, puking. It was just the worst night of my entire life. And I wish I could have had it on a recording to show you.

[Nick]

All like big brother dude, because you're like a baddie.

[Natalie]

Oh my God. No. Was it like so that I could have done like a. So that I could have done like a two time speed story post and been like my weekend and like, you.

[Nick]

Know, but like from a virus, from the stomach flu.

[Bailey]

I do have a question. The bowl that you throw up in, is that the same bowl that you use to like eat popcorn out of?

[Nick]

I made kale salad in it two days later.

[Natalie]

You did.

[Nick]

I mean, like, I don't. Is that called soap?

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Like, I don't. Do you throw it with. First of all, it's, it's metal, not plastic. So there's no, like, there's no, it's not seeping into getting into like microplastics or anything like that. Like you're, it's. It's stainless steel.

[Rachel]

I'm not judging, I'm just saying it's.

[Bailey]

Like there is a very specific throw up bowl that you also use to eat popcorn.

[Nick]

We haven't thrown up like that in a long time, so we haven't necessitated.

[Rachel]

It's going to say am I a trash human? That I don't have a throw up bowl that I just go to the bathroom?

[Natalie]

No, no, no, Definitely. The toilet was like my one true. I use the toilet and then like honestly, the toilet can help in a lot of ways. You know, it like really keeps moving along. But I was throwing up so much that I was also so tired. And the bedroom is. Was such a far. Like the bed was such a far walk to the toilet that I was like, I just can't. I just gotta. I gotta.

[Nick]

Let's play a game. It's called am I an asshole? Now I want to preface this game am I an asshole? By reminding you all that I had the same sonic flu days earlier.

[Natalie]

This is just like, I don't think.

[Rachel]

We should play just Natalie news no matter what.

[Nick]

I'm the asshole.

[Gertie]

Actually, like Natalie's fine in shocking news.

[Natalie]

Go ahead.

[Nick]

Well, I don't think I am. I'm just wondering.

[Rachel]

We'll see.

[Nick]

Just for. Almost certainly. I just want to remind you guys I had the stomach flu days before. And when I was puking, crying, screaming, throwing up, Nally didn't wake up at all. Had a nice night of sleep, which I was happy to have her have because my wife needs her sleep.

[Natalie]

He was just so light on his feet in the middle of the night when he got up to throw up. I just didn't hear a pitch.

[Nick]

When Natalie had the flu, she was down bad. And I got up a few times when I saw her wake up and Rivers sleeping and I'm rubbing her back. Then I'd bring her back to the bed. And then there was a point in the evening, like three in the morning, and Natalie is just lying on the bathroom floor and I'm like, I think let's go back to bed. She just leave me. Just leave me. Just leave me. So I left her.

[Rachel]

You're not the asshole.

[Nick]

And I wrapped the blanket on the towel. The towel. I put another bathroom towel and I'm like, all right.

[Gertie]

Well that night, maybe it sounds actually.

[Rachel]

Sweet, but maybe it's yes, that I.

[Nick]

Left her on the bathroom floor.

[Rachel]

Respect our wishes when we're in such a vulnerable state.

[Natalie]

Get out of this.

[Nick]

There was a part of Natalie that definitely wanted me to sit down down and caress her back and stay with her all night for sure.

[Natalie]

Oh, if he wanted to lay down.

[Nick]

With me on that bathroom floor, she absolutely.

[Natalie]

I would have welcomed with open arms. It was like, I don't want to, like, walk back to the bed and then have to get back up and walk, you know, Like, I don't want.

[Nick]

To do that on the head. I'm like, all right, well, you're doing great, sweetie. So I'm okay.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Gertie]

Maybe you being awoken as karma for giving your beautiful wife the stomach flu.

[Natalie]

You did give me the stomach flu.

[Nick]

Oh, I think I did, yeah. I don't know where I got it.

[Rachel]

You know, blaming doesn't help anything. You're both healthy.

[Natalie]

We did survive. We're on the other side.

[Nick]

We survived. And we do have a great episode.

[Natalie]

Lined up for you today.

[Nick]

Yeah. Rachel Recchia, your former bachelorette and new star of the Perfect Match, streaming now on Netflix, is with us to give us a little inside baseball till. What the was she and Clayton thinking when they decided to reunite their romance for a night? Until Clayton. His instincts kicked in. Intuition.

[Bailey]

Yeah, that intuition.

[Nick]

His intuition kicked in. We also have Bailey Brown from Bachelor in paradise with us to talk about her thoughts on Jeremy and his. His reluctance to speak truth to Bailey. How is she feeling about being blindsided by lies from Jeremy? So we got hopefully two very upset women joining us later this episode.

[Tamara]

Not hopefully.

[Nick]

With any luck.

[Gertie]

Hey, gotta make money somehow, you know?

[Bailey]

Hopefully they've both moved on to better.

[Nick]

I want to move on after they come on the show. I hope this is their opportunity to, like, just, like, let out all the demons. Clayton is supposed to join us on Thursday's episode of Reality Recap and is supposed to. Well, we'll see. I don't know. I think he's. I think he has a different version of how things went down on Perfect Match. And I can't wait to hear him.

[Natalie]

As anyone does with a bad edit. You know what I'm saying?

[Gertie]

Bad edits.

[Natalie]

Bad edits.

[Nick]

Bad edits.

[Rachel]

Speaking of releasing demons, I don't know if you saw Miguel's Instagram stories over the weekend. Ah, the girlies have unfollowed Louis after.

[Nick]

Louie, who is also on Perfect Match.

[Rachel]

Who is also on Perfect Match, was spotted out in London with Hutta.

[Nick]

Hudda's in London.

[Rachel]

Hudda went out in London and they were, like, spotted together.

[Natalie]

I think she's back now. This was.

[Nick]

She's back.

[Natalie]

This was. Yeah, she was.

[Rachel]

This was like a couple. This was like a week or two ago.

[Nick]

Anyways. Why does Miguel care is my question.

[Rachel]

Well, Miguel and Louis are best friends from London. I'm assuming that they must have applied for these shows at the same time thinking it was just gonna be like a fun hehe ha ha. Obviously Miguel has met the love of his life. I think Louis moved out here for Perfect Match and they were roommates for a minute. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty positive.

[Nick]

Couple of London mates trying to make it on TV.

[Rachel]

During the season or right after the season, people noticed that Leah and Janae and Serena had unfollowed Louis.

[Nick]

So of of Love Island USA of.

[Rachel]

Love Island USA season 6 unfollowed. Towards the end of the season unfollowed Louis, which was like weird mid season.

[Natalie]

What are you talking about mid season?

[Rachel]

I misspoke. So then I corrected myself but he caught onto my misspoke.

[Nick]

I am not. I'm paying attention to Sierra.

[Rachel]

He's locked in.

[Nick]

I'm not paying attention to who the PPP PPPG is following during Love island season.

[Tamara]

He's lying.

[Gertie]

He has his notifications on so people.

[Rachel]

Started to notice the unfollowing of Louis and then Miguel posted a comment because everybody thought that the PPG unfollowed him based off of Hutta. He said, if you know me, you know I'm someone who's very private. If I have a problem, I deal with it personally. However, the more I dive into this world, the more I see some people have different takes on that and perspectives can get corrupted. People I called my friends feeling as though they have the right to talk on my relationship so negatively in such a public manner with no regard for how this might affect my girl's mental.

[Nick]

What did Louis say?

[Rachel]

I'm going to look it up after I finish making assumptions without first understanding reasons behind certain actions and using that to let people drag her name and drag my relationship is disgusting. I'm beyond disappointed, I'm beyond upset, and I honestly want no part in any of it. It feels ridiculous I'm even writing this message. But this is the world I'm in and everyone seems to need an explanation. So here it is. The people you thought I was close to. Please remove that idea from your mind because it's clear to me now. We're walking two different paths. And to shed light on a certain topic, Leah and the girls didn't unfollow Louis because he was dating Hara. They did it because as women, the reasoning behind why he was dating her didn't sit right with them. Whether or not they are truly Falling for each other. At this point, I couldn't care less. I wish them nothing but peace. But my rote is my own and I would prefer if my name and my girl's name no longer crossed with their world. So I think the, the speaking negatively was that people obviously noticed the Louis.

[Natalie]

Thing and I guess Louis was like, well, what the fuck?

[Tamara]

Why?

[Natalie]

You know, you know, she had some questions after that, went public and like.

[Rachel]

As I said, I don't want to speak on her character or whatever, but I'm also like, I'm sure that there wasn't a. It didn't hurt the fact that it's like the people from season six being related to Miguel and her being with Louis, like, I feel like she probably thought that this was going to be like a Love island family.

[Nick]

Why isn't it like, why don't do the girlies not follow Huda?

[Bailey]

Leah does follow Huda.

[Nick]

Leah does.

[Rachel]

Okay, so Leah follows Hudda. But yeah, it's. I think it's the Louis of it all and the fact that.

[Tamara]

Follow Hutta.

[Bailey]

You're right.

[Rachel]

Never mind.

[Bailey]

Leah does not follow, I think.

[Natalie]

So clearly Louis might have said some things that maybe made Miguel and even, you know, PPG think one thing. And then now the fact that he's dating Huda. They're like, that doesn't align with like whatever the fuck you said to us. Whatever. Like, they clearly are uncomfortable with the fact that he's now dating Huda based on previous actions or previous words that he said.

[Nick]

My big takeaway is like, because if, if, if we all quit on beyond the Villa, like, is anyone still. Are you still watching?

[Rachel]

I'm one episode behind. I haven't seen the new episode.

[Nick]

How, how is it?

[Rachel]

I love it.

[Nick]

Is there any of this drama and by any of this, like, Kenny, obviously Kenny and Janay wouldn't be on it, but like, is there any, like, real.

[Tamara]

No.

[Gertie]

Is it just still.

[Nick]

It's just like fun friendly.

[Rachel]

It's like Olivia and Kaylor have like.

[Natalie]

Made up, but it's like silly fun.

[Rachel]

Connor and Jenna haven't gotten there yet, but like.

[Nick]

Yeah, but they haven't even gotten there.

[Rachel]

They haven't.

[Nick]

They haven't squashed.

[Rachel]

But I'm like, I'm watching Aaron and Connor go surfing and talk about the birthday party.

[Nick]

Silly fun.

[Rachel]

Yes, silly fun.

[Nick]

This is why, like, my. Why this usually doesn't translate into successful TV shows. Like, ultimately the stars of Love island have become Internet stars, right? They're fans are now following them on their social media. Things like that. That's why it makes the Women of the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives so awesome and dynamic. Because most of the time these, like, platforms, Hulu, whatever, Netflix, who are trying to follow these Internet stars and say, let's make a TV show out of them, like, they don't work because they, again, they're so brand conscious. They're so, like, they're so like editing themselves. They. They don't want the drama, but they want the, like, the attention. And the women of Secret Lives are out there just like, it doesn't stop if the cameras are up. They're just living their lives. And they may be dramatic online. They're also dramatic in the. When. When they're filming a TV show, they don't change course, right? Like, this is like, this would be you if this was a TV show. This shit that's going like, yeah, that Miguel's posting.

[Natalie]

Could y' all imagine if we had footage of like, Louis at like, sitting on Miguel and like, couch, like, talking.

[Nick]

About, talking about all this posing, like.

[Natalie]

It would be that.

[Nick]

Oh my God, we'd be just be. This would be amazing. But they don't want to do it. They can't. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, and that's what makes Women of the Secret Lives just so amazing. TV makers and professionals, because they don't stop being authentic. They don't start editing themselves as soon as, like, they get miked up and put cameras on. Like, they're just as authentic and genuine. And that's why they're one of a kind, you know, because you can't get this. This is, this is the TV we want to see. And we're getting like, you know, fake fights and surfing scenes and things like that. And then they're going on their IG stories with the real TV that's not being filmed.

[Natalie]

It is hard to like, watch their social media and see what's going on online. And then like, oh, new episode tune in and it's like so cookie cutter. And you're just like, oh.

[Nick]

Meanwhile they're on Instagram stories being like, we don't follow this person. And it's like, you know, even. Even on Instagram stories, it does feel a little silly.

[Natalie]

Like, I need, I need like a good one liner from Leah on the show. And I feel like we haven't gotten that like, you cloud demon, Cloud demon. Like, where is that?

[Gertie]

I need a direct to camera holding the phone up and going unfollow. You know what I mean?

[Nick]

Yeah, like a whole roundtable discussion of like, when all the women got together on season six and they voted off Andrea. Was it. Was it Andrea? And we all, like, Were, like, what was the conversation that made them, like, vote. I want that in terms of them unfollowing Louis. And I want. I want all the tea and why he is also a cloud demon.

[Rachel]

Right.

[Bailey]

Listen, we don't know. That could all be in season two.

[Nick]

Maybe. I doubt it.

[Natalie]

Maybe. But I feel like by then it's so old.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

I mean, they did a red carpet. They were at the premiere for Of Weapons on Friday.

[Nick]

I mean, there's an amazing show here.

[Bailey]

But, like, my take is that. Is that beyond the Villa should be live and edited the exact same way as Love Island.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Gertie]

That's so much.

[Nick]

That would be epic.

[Bailey]

That's how they got to do it.

[Rachel]

I don't know if you were watching. Watch what happens live, but Kim Zolciak was asked about Ariana's money and spending it.

[Nick]

Her daughter, the daughter, not to be.

[Rachel]

Confused with Maddox, Kim, is spending. Was spending her daughter's money. The rug was pulled out from the Zolciaks. Ariana's money was spent on bills. To be honest, I was left holding the bag for the family. I was left with nothing. So I had to figure out fast the money I borrowed from Ariana. I paid her back for the bills and stuff. Zolciak promised that while she doesn't have the spreadsheets, Ariana will be reimbursed. Wait, sorry.

[Nick]

She has paid her back. Will be paid back.

[Rachel]

She doesn't have the spreadsheets.

[Gertie]

She was a bit tardy for the party in terms of paying her daughter back.

[Nick]

And was. The daughter was in the crowd.

[Rachel]

The daughter was in the crowd on a split screen, and she was just.

[Natalie]

Staring at this very stoic look. Very much gave, like, we'll be having a conversation after this. Of like, mom, you're lying.

[Rachel]

Ariana's probably like, I actually do have a couple spreadsheets.

[Natalie]

I've sent them to you every month for you to review.

[Rachel]

I'm like, it's so sad, but I'm glad that, like, at least Ariana is back on top. I just. I don't know what's gonna happen with the fam.

[Natalie]

And then asking about Brielle, the older daughter being like, well, did she have to? And she's like, she paid an electric bill, you know, every now and again.

[Rachel]

To see it was for your children.

[Gertie]

The reason Ariana is so incredible on Next Gen is because it is so obvious that she did raise herself.

[Rachel]

Oh, yeah, yeah, she survived.

[Gertie]

Yeah, she survived. And she. That girl, she's a survivor and she has it. And by it, I mean factor the it factor.

[Rachel]

Yeah, she does. Not the Paus. Speaking of it factors, Jax, did you notice his reunion look?

[Natalie]

Oh, my God. I mean, I feel like we've. They've called him out for this so many more times, but this one is crazy.

[Rachel]

It kind of brings me a little bit of joy because why would you need to wear lifts and sneakers for a show that's being filmed while you're sitting down?

[Natalie]

Because, you know, they're taking a group photo after and he's like, oh, in that group photo, I better be like the tallest babe.

[Rachel]

I just couldn't.

[Gertie]

He also didn't want his feet.

[Rachel]

His height on the Internet says six foot, isn't he? So you know what that means.

[Natalie]

Five, ten.

[Rachel]

Five, ten.

[Nick]

I haven't seen Jax in person in maybe decade.

[Bailey]

But I mean, have you seen the.

[Natalie]

Photo of the lifts?

[Nick]

I have.

[Rachel]

That's a wedge. That ain't. That ain't a lift.

[Natalie]

No.

[Rachel]

His ankle's busted.

[Natalie]

He said, I thought wedges were back.

[Nick]

Do you think his calves were sore afterwards?

[Rachel]

Literally. He's probably just trying to adjust every single time. They're like, break.

[Tamara]

They're like.

[Rachel]

He's like, okay, stretch out those legs.

[Tamara]

It's crazy.

[Nick]

He'll be gone.

[Rachel]

Yes. And I couldn't be happier.

[Natalie]

But then there was rumors of Tom Sandoval and Victoria. And Victoria, which. It's like, there's got to be more Bravo men. There's no. There's got to be different Bravo men. There's got to be someone else in the universe who we can get.

[Nick]

I don't think Bravo's gonna change. And I think we just have to be realistic that Bravo isn't gonna.

[Natalie]

They're just gonna continue to platform toxic men.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

And their original probably because the US sun has reported that Sheena Shay is a done deal to join the Valley cast after exposing husband Brock Davies cheating past.

[Nick]

That's a wild headline.

[Rachel]

That is the headline.

[Natalie]

You do what you gotta do for your family.

[Rachel]

But we will have Sheena back for season three full time cast member.

[Gertie]

The Sisyphusian effort of Sheena Shay.

[Rachel]

It's good as gold, baby.

[Gertie]

It is good as gold.

[Nick]

Do you feel like I would rather not talk? I mean, like, we're just. Well, but like we said last week, when, like she's gonna be on the.

[Rachel]

Show, it's gonna give you something. I was like, Lala teased that she will also have a Bigger role on this upcoming season of the Valley.

[Nick]

I fuck with Lala.

[Natalie]

Yeah, we need, we. If we're gonna have Sheena, we definitely need Lala.

[Rachel]

It's like a balance.

[Natalie]

Yeah, I, I would hope that we would get a little bit more.

[Bailey]

What's their relationship like right now?

[Rachel]

Lala and Sheena, I feel like you don't really see them out together as much and they both have like next door neighbor houses in Palm Springs and whatnot. I just feel like they're always together during Vanderpump.

[Natalie]

Yeah, I feel like I see them post like their kids together a lot. I, I do think they're like genuinely real life, really good friends.

[Nick]

There's nothing she won't say for attention and you know that's all she wants. And there's so there's nothing you can say when we talk about this show that won't just like feel the beast.

[Gertie]

But Jax Taylor is the same way and she knows I don't like talking.

[Nick]

About Jax Taylor, to be clear. But the thing is like, I'm so tired of him.

[Gertie]

Wouldn't you rather talk about Sheena than Jax?

[Natalie]

I'm sure you want to like call him every name in the book and throw stuff at the tv. That's what he says in every single cameo. He said someone. Yeah, I'm sure you want to throw things at the TV on every name in the book.

[Nick]

Is Brock allegedly signed up or is he just along for the ride?

[Rachel]

If Sheena is going to be a full time cast member on the Valley, you bet your ass we're getting some Brock.

[Nick]

But how does that work? Does like Bravo just assume they get a free Brock? Well, he was all of his confessionals. Like do they get like. I guess you got to talk about this.

[Natalie]

This is interesting because Kristen Doty just came out and said that she like doesn't fuck with Brock like at all. Oh yeah, we have them on. Do we know why she said he's not her cup of tea?

[Rachel]

Also like from like meeting. I think she's just never, she's never get the vibe that she wanted to besties with him.

[Gertie]

Hey, guess what? I can't wait to see it.

[Rachel]

No, it's going to be a good season. Do we know if Janet's coming back?

[Nick]

Probably.

[Bailey]

Sure.

[Gertie]

Throw her in there too.

[Natalie]

At this point, if Sheena's there, I think Janet will definitely feel more comfortable.

[Rachel]

She has an ally.

[Gertie]

It's going to be awesome.

[Nick]

Moving on. Sadly, not forever. Rachel Recchia is with us to talk about her perfect match experience. And if this is her final run on reality TV or if she will maybe be back for more. Either way, we're going to find out.

[Natalie]

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[Nick]

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[Tamara]

Thanks for having me.

[Nick]

So good to be with you. How are you? Why are you scared?

[Tamara]

You guys are tough. Always on who? I mean, you guys just say it how it is. We're gonna talk some shit today.

[Natalie]

We're gonna talk today.

[Tamara]

We love.

[Nick]

Before we talk about your shit, we were just talking about the Valley. You watch the Valley?

[Tamara]

I watch the Valley and I'm friends with a lot of the cast members.

[Nick]

Who are you friend? I don't want to. Who are you friends with?

[Tamara]

I love Zach. I'm friends with Brittany and Kristen.

[Nick]

Great. Okay. Are you excited to see Sheena?

[Tamara]

Well, I did pay US$15 to get the audiobook.

[Nick]

Oh.

[Tamara]

I wanted to listen because I've seen all the rumors. Let me figure this out myself. Honestly.

[Natalie]

US dollars.

[Tamara]

US$15. I think it's smart. Like, she held those cars so close to her chest, and she revealed them the moment she needed to. I'm sorry. Like, well played, Sheena.

[Natalie]

She said, well played.

[Tamara]

You deserved it.

[Natalie]

Family to feed.

[Nick]

No, she definitely.

[Rachel]

That's playing chess.

[Nick]

She collected. You know, she.

[Tamara]

She could have pulled that out during last season of vpr and then everyone.

[Natalie]

Would have hated her. And she knows, my God, that was credit to Sheena.

[Nick]

She was like, it's not my time.

[Tamara]

And now it is. And it got her cast and it.

[Natalie]

Got her on the Valley. You know what?

[Tamara]

Give credit, Will credit. Sometimes you gotta be like, these people are professionals.

[Nick]

And that's true.

[Tamara]

And that's exactly what she just did.

[Nick]

Speaking of being a professional, you are now a professional reality TV star.

[Tamara]

No, I wouldn't say that. I mean, look at my.

[Nick]

I think once.

[Tamara]

Was that really professional?

[Nick]

I think once you start getting heard, yeah, you know, then you're a professional.

[Natalie]

I mean, like, how did Netflix come to you being like, hey, girl, perfect match?

[Tamara]

Yeah, it was crazy. I like the show. I've watched seasons one and two, and I was watching the second season, and I got a call from my team, and they were like, would you take an interview? And I was like, how? Like, I'm not on Netflix. They're like, no, this season. Like, they're casting all outside. And I was like, oh, yeah. Like, that's so cool. It's never been done in a dating form.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Tamara]

And I really wanted to be a part of the first time they did it.

[Nick]

So they. They had you at hello.

[Tamara]

Yeah. I really wanted it, which was crazy, because normally, like, with Paradise, I was, like, fighting. I did not want to go. And I was like, I don't know. Okay. Like, maybe it'll be fun. But this one, I was like. It just seemed like something more fresh and fun, and I wasn't gonna bring a bachelorette reputation into it.

[Natalie]

Right.

[Tamara]

Well, truly. But I really wanted to, like, start over, and that's why I wanted to show.

[Rachel]

Had different plans for you.

[Tamara]

No, genuinely, I really thought the universe. I was gonna be the only one, because I only knew one other person who interviewed, and he turned it down. So I was like, it's just.

[Nick]

Who's that?

[Tamara]

Blake.

[Nick]

Oh. I was like, isn't he married?

[Tamara]

Giannina and him are on a break, so he could go on Perfect Match season four.

[Rachel]

Okay.

[Nick]

I know she's part of the Netflix family, but I didn't know, like, that close.

[Tamara]

Yes. Honestly.

[Nick]

Is he safari right now? Is that why he wasn't available?

[Tamara]

I just think he was, like, very on the fence about it. Like, he just didn't know if it.

[Natalie]

Okay, y' all are just, like, strictly friends?

[Rachel]

Yes.

[Tamara]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. How many. I don't know how many more times.

[Natalie]

I. I know, but I've been saying.

[Tamara]

This for the rest of my life.

[Natalie]

No, they're like. They go on their safari trips together. He's, like, taking her out.

[Nick]

You're flying.

[Tamara]

We're, like, flying over the animal. It's like, you know those very romantic, but, like. But not friends. Yeah.

[Nick]

So at what point? Well, so when you. You didn't know that Clayton was going to be there, but you walked in and here is.

[Tamara]

Freddie told me Freddy, and he played it so cool. We were on our date, and he goes, oh, like the Bachelor. Like, who season were you on? And I'm like, oh, Clayton. And Cindy just goes, all right. And then he, like, slowly told me. He's like, I just want to let you know, when you walk in there, he's there.

[Nick]

And so Freddie's hot, right?

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So hot, right?

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And you were on a date with Freddie.

[Tamara]

I was very lucky. That was a amazing first date. I saw him. I'm like, oh, thank you.

[Rachel]

That was great.

[Nick]

Nothing against Clayton, but it seemed like, as though from what we watched, that you were more interested in Clayton pursuing you than hottie Eddie.

[Natalie]

Eddie.

[Tamara]

Freddie.

[Nick]

Freddie. Eddie. Does it really matter what his name is?

[Tamara]

Does it matter the house?

[Nick]

Does it matter what his name is?

[Tamara]

I was.

[Natalie]

Seemed very interested in you.

[Tamara]

See, I don't know. Like, I was very shocked watching back, because in person, I think we both have a very. Like, we're not bombshells by any means. Which is crazy that we, like, were. Because I don't feel like we are, like, steal each other's man or girl. Like, we're more passive.

[Nick]

Blink twice if you think he was afraid of Madison.

[Tamara]

I don't know if he was afraid, but he definitely wanted to give it a shot. And I think he, in a way, told me that. Where I was like, all right, I'm not even gonna really push this. Like, if you come to me, you come to me. But it seemed more of he's, like, not open. That's the right word. Like, he wasn't open, really. And then I heard all the. What he said in interview, and I was like, was that about me or, like. I don't know if it was, because it was very shocking.

[Natalie]

It came across as like, he was gonna match with you. And then you came to him being like, I don't know.

[Tamara]

Oh, I was freaking out. That probably didn't help my cause. My friends weren't very happy watching that. They're like, you didn't sit down with Freddie again. Like, you're going and freak.

[Nick]

I was upset. I was upset.

[Tamara]

You were? Yeah.

[Nick]

Freddie's hot.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And Madison again, haven't met her. Don't know her on camera from Love Is Blind, Minnesota. And this. She just seems a little toxic, you know, like, the definition of hurt people. Hurt people. Like, what was the. Like, who was the first guy? And she was matched up with Cody, and then, like, she decided not to like him. And then she, like, called him disgusting.

[Tamara]

But if you get a chance to match up Freddie, do you really blame her? Like, I would have taken that shot, too.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

And he's fucking disgusted.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Nick]

That was, like.

[Tamara]

That was why she just.

[Nick]

She instantly talks shit about, like, whoever she's lost interest in to the point of, like, she want. She. She comes across on tv is that she wants to hurt people.

[Rachel]

I was gonna say, like, emotionally hurt.

[Nick]

People or accuse them of shit. Like, she just. She comes across as the definition of hurt people. Hurt people. Like, I'd be like, I'm so glad Clayton didn't match with her. You know what I'm saying?

[Tamara]

Like, can you imagine? That kind of would have been fun to watch. I will say she's a bit misunderstood. I Think she's been through a lot.

[Nick]

But again, that I believe.

[Tamara]

She also didn't see me as, like, a threat because Freddie picked up. Well, you know, once Freddie, like, picked her, she was like, okay. So I feel like she was definitely very, like, she felt comfortable around me. And I think. I mean, she. She was.

[Rachel]

She's great.

[Tamara]

I don't know what happened with Kody before, because that was all before I got there. So much went on breeze done or wrong before I got there, so I will not know. You'll have to ask.

[Natalie]

Listen, we are. We have defended Clayton.

[Tamara]

We.

[Nick]

We love Clayton.

[Natalie]

We love.

[Nick]

We are rooting for Clayton. Overall happiness in life.

[Tamara]

Me too. I genuinely.

[Natalie]

He did, yes.

[Tamara]

Was crazy.

[Natalie]

Was not defendable.

[Rachel]

Unforgivable.

[Nick]

I mean, I don't know if it's not forgiveable.

[Natalie]

I mean, for me, it was. It was.

[Tamara]

It's just my Kind of.

[Nick]

Like, you kept saying, this is the third time. What was the second time?

[Tamara]

The first time was the rose ceremony from hell. No, I remember that everyone tried to leave that night. The way we were convinced to stay. That, like, everyone tried to leave. Gabby left. We all got to stay for one day. The next day, broke up with us in the room at the same time. Oh, yeah, That's a second. That's two.

[Natalie]

Yeah, that's two. The first time, it was like, I slept with all of you or I fell in love with all of you.

[Nick]

And then how did you get convinced to stay?

[Tamara]

Come on. I sat in a room in an itm. Rachel. Come on, Rachel. You're not gonna leave him. You're running away with this. Babe, let's just. I'm like, okay.

[Nick]

He needed to fuck them so he could know you.

[Tamara]

And I was like, you're right. I know he loves me. He said it to me first. Oh, my God. He just got confused because of my fantasy suite. Like, I was Joe. You guys watch how delusional I was.

[Nick]

I was like, Rachel, I was a runner up twice. Two separate seasons.

[Tamara]

I can't even imagine different women.

[Nick]

I went. I left. Went back to reality, came back, and let the same thing happen.

[Natalie]

He was gonna win both times.

[Nick]

You just had. You just had, like, you had 24 hours of, like, still, like, never really out of Dululand. I.

[Tamara]

Every time with Glade, I'd go back into a state of absolute delusion. Like, I don't know what else it is.

[Nick]

What does he smell like? Is it really that good?

[Rachel]

He's got that pheromone, hormones, scent thing.

[Tamara]

I think it really is. Everything that happened at the end of our season, your trauma, and it's just this, like, need for. Or I don't know if it's, like, internal, where I just am, like, you made the wrong decision. Like, and now you finally see it.

[Bailey]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Like, it would have made sense if you would have agreed. Like, that's what's so fucked up about it. Like, the reality is, is most people who are watching Perfect Match, I'm guessing, like, 2% of the audience, like, knows the lore behind, like, you and Clayton. Like, we know it.

[Tamara]

Like, obviously, no one on the cast knew.

[Nick]

No one. The cast knows. Most of the Netflix audience are like, they're just like, whatever, I don't care. But, like, we know. Right? But, like, we wanted Clayton to pursue you. You go, yes. And then the next day, you say, my intuition or whatever. What does he say? I don't care.

[Tamara]

He says, my intuition told me to dump you for a third time.

[Nick]

That's why I feel like things are.

[Tamara]

Speaking to me in the night, and they're telling me, this is not good.

[Nick]

He really wants to be a good guy, I think.

[Tamara]

And genuinely, again, I'm not gonna speak that ill, but we're gonna say it how it is. I think he came on this show because he did want that redemption, and I'm the easiest path to it. Like, that was right in front of him, and he said he didn't think that one through. I think he saw it. And the next day, he's like, oh, I genuinely. I can't do it. Because it wasn't even. When I tell you that night, we didn't even speak. Like, him saying, like, oh, we had the night. And then we had this blindfolded kiss that I barely knew it was him. I kind of touched his shirt and kind of knew it was him. Like, I was scared, like. And then you're saying, there isn't chemistry there. I'm like, we didn't even talk last night. We talked about your spiritual journey and how production style is different. Like, how do you. You didn't even try to get to know me.

[Nick]

He said. He said, we're both better vers. Versions of ourselves.

[Tamara]

I definitely am, but that was, like.

[Nick]

A nice thing to say. You're like, you know what? We. We owe it to each other.

[Natalie]

Said, everything happens for a reason. And that's my screensaver.

[Tamara]

Oh, my God, please. I watch it back. I don't think I remember that happening. When he said that, I was just sitting there, like. And you're.

[Natalie]

You laugh after. And it was like, you know, that you're like, this guy.

[Tamara]

I was so confused. And not to mention, this is the first conversation I had in the house. And immediately he's like, let's match. I'm like, no.

[Natalie]

And he loves to do that.

[Tamara]

What is happening? I was like, I haven't talked to a single. I didn't talk to any of the men that night because I was so confused and just, like, terrified.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Tamara]

But. Yeah, and he had a good thing going.

[Nick]

Like, Julia.

[Tamara]

No, I don't think he liked Juliet.

[Rachel]

And I think Juliet liked somebody else. She was ready to.

[Natalie]

No, she want. Poor Juliet. Every time she tried to interrupt Clayton and someone, he was like, sorry, no, this isn't how this is supposed to work.

[Nick]

Yeah. I never watched the Bachelor. She knew a lot about the Bachelor, even about, like, the whole, like, can I steal you? Like. Like, she was like, yeah.

[Rachel]

She's like.

[Gertie]

She's like, I don't watch.

[Nick]

I don't. I do not watch.

[Tamara]

They had sex, and they have feelings.

[Nick]

And I'm like, but I don't watch.

[Tamara]

And she never will.

[Rachel]

No.

[Natalie]

It was. He first went to Madison and was like, we should match. And Madison was like, I don't. I think I'm gonna. With Cody. And he was like, okay. And then Match with Juliet. And then he came, and he's like, I think we should match.

[Nick]

And then on his date with Sandy.

[Natalie]

And I feel like we should match.

[Rachel]

I see.

[Tamara]

I didn't know any of that.

[Nick]

So you're the only one who said yes.

[Rachel]

Juliet said yes.

[Tamara]

I didn't know he asked Sandy on her. I didn't know that happened. I didn't know any of this. I didn't know what he was saying in interview because to me, he was like, oh. Like, it was very, like, performative mercy. Like, I'm gonna give you the season, and I'm gonna put you on a date and step away. And then he's in his interview. I'm trying to put myself on a date tomorrow. Rachel's going home. Bags are packed. And I'm like, you told me this was for me. Like, me.

[Nick]

What do you think Clayton's version's gonna be when we talk to him if he shows up?

[Tamara]

I think he's going to say that he was just so shocked by my reaction and that it just startled him. And just seeing me got him, like, feeling feelings from the past that weren't really there.

[Natalie]

What I don't understand is why you. Obviously. Y' all are all living in a house. Y' all could have, like, continued to, like, chat and Catch up, not being matched genuinely.

[Tamara]

And I'm like, you could have let me walk out. Like, I could have been like, you.

[Natalie]

Would have matched with Freddie. Freddie was ready to match.

[Tamara]

I don't know. I really. I'm telling you, being there, I don't know. But, yeah, I didn't try again. Like, me and Freddie had no conversations once we got to the house because I was so, like, I don't know the right word. Yeah.

[Natalie]

At least Freddie gave you a heads up and you, like, had time to prepare.

[Tamara]

Can you imagine if he did it?

[Natalie]

You honestly walked in, so iconic, being like, I'm gonna go say hey to them and we'll talk.

[Tamara]

Also, I walked in thinking it was gonna be. I went to paradise with Avon, who I had, you know, fallen in love with on my season. So I was like, okay, this is gonna be similar where it's like, we'll have a conversation. You do you, I'll do me. And I sat down, and you could see, like, I'm like, laughing. And then it goes straight into, like, I feel like Misha Batch. I'm like, oh, God. Okay. I didn't see this. I didn't see this happening. I did not see it coming.

[Nick]

So what'd you guys do that night?

[Tamara]

We talked about the difference between the Bachelor and this show, what's happened so far, and his spiritual journey.

[Nick]

What was that like?

[Tamara]

That he's just been on a journey and it's healed him, which I. I do think he's changed, but I think the same decision making is what's getting him in trouble, and that hasn't changed.

[Nick]

I. I think that's. Yeah, it makes sense. I. He's definitely well intentioned.

[Natalie]

Those intentions. Those intentions.

[Nick]

But, yeah, he. I. And what's crazy is I think he thinks things through. I think he thinks things through.

[Tamara]

I. You. Why do you.

[Natalie]

You do?

[Nick]

Well, I mean, he thinks them through from his perspective for, like, not a long time, though.

[Tamara]

Not into the Future. Not past 12 hours.

[Natalie]

Yeah, I think he decides in the.

[Nick]

Future he's not a psychic. He can't contradict his feelings.

[Natalie]

I think he's like, I don't know. I'm feeling this right now. And like, Rachel, I think we should break up.

[Nick]

The way he just earnestly was just like, my intuition just changed.

[Tamara]

And it was the same exact. Like, I will never forget the way he looked coming into Gabby's hotel room. Like, that look. And he came back from the date. The same exact look he was. Rachel, can we talk upstairs? And I'm like, oh, my God. I literally was like, am I wrong? Am I wrong? He goes upstairs and starts telling me that I'm like, get away from me. I'm like, I'm so upset because it's more than just like, oh, my gosh, this stings, this breakup. It's like, you're humiliating me. You know that you're doing this. You know that I have a willingness to forgive you, and you take advantage of it. Like, he really does.

[Natalie]

I mean, the fact that he sat there and was, like, trying to convince you in a way of, like, this doesn't just happen. Like, the universe put us both here.

[Tamara]

And, like, we're missing, and I'm like, yeah, you're together.

[Natalie]

We've gotta try.

[Nick]

I think he sees it through that lens. Like, I think.

[Natalie]

But only for 12 hours.

[Nick]

Whatever the reason. I mean, but, like, we. Clinton's been through a lot. We know this. Like, his. His journey on reality TV is the most unfortunate. It's up there. So I think when he see. Like, when he shows up and he sees Rachel there, not like. But he's. Yeah, I think he's just like, the guy who has everything happens for a reason as a screensaver is just more like, we. This is. This. This is destiny. We should like, oh, my God, this is a second chance. I can. You know, and then. And then he wakes up, and he's like, holy shit. And then he tries to be honest in that moment, and he just can't.

[Tamara]

I know, but I feel like he was also, like, doing a bit of, like. Like, revisionist history. Like, for sure. Oh, everyone saw. Thought we had chemistry, but I couldn't see it. I'm like, clayton, you gave me every single group date Rose I could possibly mean. And then one you try to give me, and they said no. Like, what?

[Nick]

And then you guys. Then you slept with her, and then you told her you loved her.

[Tamara]

And then you screamed it from a balcony. And then you begged me to say. And then you asked my dad to marry me. And he goes, I didn't see it. I'm like, were we on the same.

[Natalie]

And then after the kissing challenge on Perfect Match, he's like, I gave her six. And that's like, we must not.

[Tamara]

I'm like, quentin, I only knew it was you because I felt your shirt, babe. Like, I like.

[Natalie]

And I know how to play the game.

[Tamara]

I'm scared. Like, we are sitting there in the heat on a platform with headphones on. I'm kissing every girl's boyfriend. It's my first day sober. Like, of course I'M going to be a bad kisser. What do you mean? Like, if I was a good kisser, I'd be scared.

[Rachel]

Like, and also you. It's.

[Natalie]

I've said this before on Love island, when they do these blindfold kisses, it's like, you startled me, right? Like, now I'm nervous. I didn't know you were here yet.

[Tamara]

I can't see you.

[Natalie]

I can't feel you. Like, I don't know what's happening.

[Nick]

Where's the guy? Did the guys go right in with the tongue?

[Tamara]

No, not. It felt like everything I did was very, like, slow. It's funny, too, because they said that, like, I was Louie's worst kiss. And. And you can ask if it wasn't me, because we all know who it was. Because he makes fun of her. He's like, you went in straight with the tongue. And she's like, God forbid a girl catch vibe. Like, I just feel like those. I've never done anything like that. Bachelor doesn't do that. So I was very, like, slow.

[Natalie]

And I am, you know, I'm excited to see you continue on this show and see your. Like, you know, what did we learn about Lucy? That she likes butt plugs or something.

[Tamara]

Vibrating.

[Natalie]

Vibrating butt plugs. Like, I'm excited to learn things about you.

[Tamara]

Thank you.

[Natalie]

So I hope you open up.

[Tamara]

You gotta be less rigid, girl. Maybe use Lucy's.

[Nick]

I'm curious watching about. I felt Daniel overreacted when Lucy made out with Ollie. Yeah, now I get it. I get it. Like, Ollie has a big old beard.

[Tamara]

And stuff, but, like, the challenge wasn't. Find your partner, though.

[Nick]

Calm down.

[Tamara]

Like, they did not say, he's still gonna die. Find Daniel.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

We're on a show where we allow other couples to break up your relationship.

[Tamara]

And also, it's day. Maybe four at this point. Maybe four. But that argument that wasn't even, like, that went on for a long time. That started the moment we got in the van and that what they showed is a short clip, really.

[Nick]

Was he mean?

[Tamara]

I just feel like Lucy is just. She's my closest friend on the show. We're still so close, and, like, she's so sweet, and I feel like she's so willing to forgive as well. And she wanted to make things work and kind of didn't want to upset him. But. But it seems like he got very embarrassed easily because of the boys. Like, the boys were so close. And I think knowing that Ali got that higher rating, like, set him off and he would just take it out on Lucy.

[Nick]

Could you just imagine losing your mind because you got a nine?

[Tamara]

He's like, the point is the beard. The point is the beard. That wasn't. She gave Ollie a 10 because he's a dad.

[Nick]

It wasn't you. He. Like, she liked it. I mean, like, it's a good kiss. It's a kiss.

[Tamara]

I think there was also, like, a hug that happened after that confused her, if I remember correctly.

[Nick]

That's on him.

[Tamara]

Right? I think there was a point where she was like, okay. But then he hugged her, and she was like, oh, so it's still very good. So is that Daniel?

[Natalie]

Like, I think she got really.

[Tamara]

And it's like. It's disorienting. Like, it really is the beard. Like, you would think you would, like, feel it.

[Nick]

And he does have scruff.

[Tamara]

Yeah. They all. I mean, Clayton did well.

[Rachel]

And to be fair, I'm like, how many times do. Like, if you haven't seen somebody. Like, you saw somebody that week, and it's like, do they have a mustache? I don't know.

[Bailey]

Right?

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

I spent six hours looking at their face. I don't know if they have a.

[Tamara]

Mustache so early when that happened.

[Rachel]

So if I'm disoriented, eyes covered, head, like, you know, I'm just making out to make out.

[Nick]

Did Alex come in just bragging about threesomes, or is that just how it was edited?

[Tamara]

So I. That, like, I. That aired, like, way after, so I had no idea about the threesome. But she came in, like, a bombshell, like she was gonna steal your man. I remember seeing her, and I'm like, you're gonna put us in at the same time? I'm like, come on. This is.

[Nick]

So she wasn't out there.

[Rachel]

She.

[Tamara]

But she came in, and she made, I think, all the boys question for a minute. But this season, it's very, like, if you're not there day one, it's really difficult to make a connection in the house.

[Natalie]

That's kind of giving Bachelor in Paradise as well this season. Are you watching that?

[Tamara]

Yeah, unfortunately.

[Natalie]

What do you think?

[Nick]

Trauma?

[Tamara]

No, not trauma at all. I just am, like, really disappointed for everyone. I know that went on because I think it had so much potential, and it feels like it's really.

[Nick]

Rachel Recka is the new showrunner. What does she do?

[Tamara]

No, I don't know.

[Rachel]

She said, don't put that on me.

[Natalie]

She's like, I don't. I didn't apply, actually, so.

[Tamara]

But don't have only six people on the beach.

[Natalie]

And also, there's a rose ceremony every four hours.

[Tamara]

Jill had 24 hours. She said her and Susie, it's great. Normally you get three days, Right. I don't know.

[Nick]

Jill was only there for 24 hours.

[Tamara]

No, she got to stay, remember? But that. That first rose ceremony, it happened. She went in the night before.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Tamara]

The next day was.

[Natalie]

It's happening too fast.

[Tamara]

Yeah. And it's just.

[Rachel]

There's.

[Tamara]

You can't. Six people on the beach.

[Rachel]

Well, you can't really make genuine connections because at the end of the day, you're just trying to stay, like, maybe somebody that I am excited about. But right now.

[Natalie]

Do you like seeing the Goldens mixed in?

[Tamara]

I do, but it's, like, hard because I don't like them seeing hurt and heartbroken. And it feels like this isn't as wholesome, where watching the normal show, it's very. Like, we hear their stories, and then they go home, and it's sad, but, like, seeing them get rejected or not get the person they want is not entertaining for me.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Honestly, I was kind of with Jeremy when he was like, I hate the Goldens on the TV show. It's. It. Yeah. I don't know. I love the nostalgia of the Golden Bachelor and the Bachelorette and the reminder that there's life after 60, you know, and you can fall in love and.

[Tamara]

Whatever, but, like, just not in this context. Not watching April make out with Sean.

[Rachel]

Or it should have been two separate seasons, I feel like, where it's like, so we can do the wholesome dates and whatnot and then do, like, the, like, let's get down and dirty.

[Natalie]

What I'm finding to be just insane is that we have. This is the first time we're actually watching our contestants, like, do something, like, compete. Like, how have every season beforehand. We've just been watching everyone sit on the beach.

[Nick]

We were pretty entertaining back then.

[Rachel]

I was gonna say, who was the girl that, like, lost her luggage and then was just, like, talking to the camera randomly just being like, I can't find my luggage.

[Tamara]

I have no clothes.

[Rachel]

It was just, like, some of the most unhinged scallop fingers.

[Nick]

Because it used to be a comedy.

[Rachel]

Yeah, it used to be funny, but.

[Tamara]

Still, everyone is still here for the right reasons and still wants to find a connection. And I think this is the first season we're seeing it where people are like, I'm here kind of for the game, Swanna Rose, and it's allowed. Where before, you could not ever be like that on a Bachelor show. That's true.

[Natalie]

I do. I mean, first of All I know we'll get into paradise with Bailey a little bit more. But like, that challenge.

[Tamara]

So much to say about that.

[Nick]

Well, you're here.

[Tamara]

I feel so bad for Bailey.

[Nick]

Still doesn't know, you know, what it's like to be.

[Tamara]

I am the number one Susie Leftovers. Please just change my name to that. That's crazy. Not only the leftovers, but he continues to talk about Susie on this show. He's like, and I would propose to her tomorrow. Susie, I don't know what you got, Susie. Got that picture.

[Nick]

Give it to me.

[Tamara]

I was going to say, I don't know what's going on down there. She didn't even need to use it on the Bachelor. I think it's something more. She's a witch. She was a witch.

[Rachel]

She's sick.

[Natalie]

That's crazy. No, the fact that. That Jeremy is just operating under the fact that, like, that never happened.

[Tamara]

And he's like, none of your business. Saying it in front of the camera. Like, these hidden cameras. He did not think.

[Nick]

It wasn't a hidden camera. It was in his chair on the.

[Tamara]

Isn't it like the stationary ones that you think was an igm?

[Nick]

He. What do you got older?

[Natalie]

He's. She's talking about whenever he was in.

[Tamara]

The room with the boys saying, I want to propose. He didn't think they were use that or that they could hear it genuinely. Because I. That was something I had to get used to. Was like, I've been seeing footage. I'm like, nope, don't remember that. Like, that must have happened.

[Rachel]

I'll tell you when your mic pack is off. And then he goes and tells him anyways. I go, what did he do?

[Tamara]

He goes, hot mic. Yeah.

[Nick]

If you're not 50ft into the ocean.

[Tamara]

With your top off under the water.

[Nick]

Facing the sea, you know, they will catch it. No, Catch it.

[Natalie]

No, that. I mean. I mean, what are your thoughts on Brian?

[Tamara]

That fantasy suite with Paris? That was scary.

[Nick]

He's a dick.

[Tamara]

That was actually scary. What's your favorite color? And he got mad about, oh, my God.

[Natalie]

You know what they should have done in that challenge? They should have asked Ryan, like, what is Paris's favorite color?

[Nick]

Oh, no, that's Parisa.

[Natalie]

Well, they're asking all the questions. And then he would have been. It would have been like, you motherfucker.

[Rachel]

I should have asked.

[Nick]

All you had to do is ask.

[Natalie]

We should have answered those questions. That was.

[Tamara]

He's mean.

[Natalie]

He's not nice.

[Tamara]

And when he did his Zoe, too, like, just the 180.

[Nick]

He doesn't like a compliment. Don't tell him his hair looks nice.

[Rachel]

Don't tell him he looks good today. Don't tell him you're happy to see him.

[Natalie]

This is me being brutally. No, we're aware.

[Nick]

No. Yeah. He's like, yeah. I'm just being brutally honest. No. Okay.

[Rachel]

I would like to see you try delivering it soft. What does that look like?

[Tamara]

Genuinely so scary.

[Natalie]

So there's no part of you that wishes you did paradise instead of Perfect Match?

[Nick]

No. It would have been great if you would have done both and you would have been on it. You would really would have been simultaneously.

[Tamara]

I would. No, no. The first, when I did Paradise, I was like, oh, I had a great time. I loved it, but I had no business being on that beach. Like, let's be so for real. So. No, it was. It was. It's a tough watch.

[Nick]

What do you think of Louis?

[Tamara]

I love Louis. Okay, what's happening now is crazy.

[Nick]

You're talking about the whole Love Island. Miguel, what's your reading?

[Tamara]

I don't know their relationship, but it feels like.

[Nick]

I mean, by them, you mean Louis and Miguel. Miguel, yeah.

[Tamara]

And Leah. I don't know how far that goes. I love him as a person. I think he's amazing. I get along with him so well. He's such good tv. But it just feels like, kind of selfish a little bit to like. I mean, Sandy and him have such a good connection on the show. And it's like, now people are kind of seeing things of like, oh, what's going on now?

[Natalie]

Have you talked to Sandy? How's she feeling?

[Tamara]

No, I mean, I think that that sucks.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Tamara]

I'm sure you guys will talk to her.

[Nick]

Had that been going on?

[Tamara]

I didn't know until I saw it on TikTok.

[Nick]

Because I just assume there's no perfect match, you know, there.

[Tamara]

I mean, that's kind of. I will say this. I feel like a lot of people are under the assumption that, like, no, there's a lot still going on. Like, even just from that Netflix event, like, there's a lot happening.

[Natalie]

What happened at the Netflix show?

[Tamara]

Oh, my God. There was. Might have been more drama at that Netflix event than we were there.

[Bailey]

Why weren't we.

[Natalie]

Why weren't we privy to the drama?

[Tamara]

The drama?

[Rachel]

Because we stayed.

[Nick]

We thought we were better than everyone.

[Tamara]

And I wasn't even at that hotel. Like, I didn't even stay there. What went on? We're still stuff going on. It's not. It might have been a year ago, but with Who?

[Nick]

With who? Just give it to me. You don't have to tell us the what, but tell us the who.

[Tamara]

I don't know.

[Rachel]

Do you know how Sandy felt about Louis and Hutta?

[Tamara]

I.

[Nick]

Does she feel so.

[Tamara]

I actually don't. I. You're going to have to.

[Rachel]

Have to wait.

[Tamara]

But for me, I'm like, that's just disappointing.

[Rachel]

Okay.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

How do you feel about it?

[Tamara]

I just am like. Like it's literally airing. We have what, maybe two weeks, right?

[Natalie]

You couldn't wait until maybe leave some.

[Tamara]

It feels like a little selfish just because people are, like, watching. And I think it affects the whole cast of, like, people being like, oh, why would I watch then?

[Bailey]

Right.

[Tamara]

Because all these couples, like, we already know about AD And Ollie. But there is more. But.

[Nick]

Well, at least with AD And Ollie, like, we love genuinely pregnant together. Building a family. Like, I'm fine with that. Spoiler.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

I didn't know that.

[Nick]

Oh, my God. They're just making.

[Tamara]

Oh, my God.

[Nick]

A family.

[Rachel]

I just remember the last. Was it love is Blind or whatever when they came out and announced the podcast that they were. That they were engaged. Yeah. And I was like, okay, great. And I love that you're seeing it from the very get go that they were just like, drawn to each other. But. Yeah. I didn't realize that so much has happened.

[Tamara]

And they go through it on the show too. Like they.

[Rachel]

They test their relationship.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Tamara]

So it's not like it's all Alex.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Tamara]

Alex and Justine. Like, they went through it. For them to be on the other side.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Tamara]

It's like watching it back. You watch them build and grow and have to have hard conversations.

[Nick]

What do you think of Junior?

[Tamara]

He was very intense, very sexual. Like, they even. Oh, my God, they cut out this one part and it was crazy. Like, he came back and was talking about his date with AD and we were all just sitting on the couch and I don't remember what the conversation was, but he's like, you know, AD ass and tits. And we're like, every single person on the couch was like, what? And that was just his approach going in.

[Nick]

Like, I mean, he's what, the guy who.

[Natalie]

He started us with the bio files.

[Nick]

Actually, his biggest turn on is what, stealing your girl kind of thing.

[Rachel]

That is what he said.

[Natalie]

His biggest turn on is stealing your girl and then like watching your man.

[Rachel]

Fight, watching them struggle to get her back. Yeah.

[Nick]

I'm like, okay, cool.

[Natalie]

That's your biggest turn on.

[Nick]

Cool, bro.

[Rachel]

Like, tell them they're toxic without telling us.

[Nick]

No, he told us.

[Rachel]

He told us.

[Tamara]

That was crazy. But him and Sandy do have a lot of history. And it's not even over. Like, there is more to that story as well.

[Natalie]

So I wonder if they would have approached things differently had Ultimatum already aired before they went on Perfect Match. Like, if they would have already known the public's perception of their relationship had they.

[Tamara]

You know, I mean, there's more to it. Like, it's not over.

[Natalie]

It's not over.

[Nick]

So what happened in the Netflix party?

[Tamara]

Can't tell you.

[Nick]

Why?

[Tamara]

Well, I'll tell you after.

[Nick]

Who?

[Tamara]

I can't tell you without it all making sense and lots of people, you know, fighting.

[Nick]

Who's fighting?

[Tamara]

Couples getting back together.

[Nick]

So any chance with you and Freddie?

[Tamara]

Maybe not Freddie, but who knows?

[Nick]

Why? Why wouldn't you date Freddie? Freddie calls me.

[Tamara]

You might be talking to someone. She's.

[Natalie]

Oh, Carrington.

[Tamara]

I don't know.

[Rachel]

Can we get a letter?

[Nick]

Who could it be?

[Bailey]

Well, she's currently with Scott.

[Tamara]

It could be Scott.

[Rachel]

Scott. Love Island.

[Natalie]

No, it's not Love Island.

[Bailey]

Well, he was on Love island, but now he's with Rachel.

[Tamara]

There's three Love island guys. We'll say that. I don't know which one, though. Oh, it's Scott.

[Nick]

Okay, Leia, have we asked Rachel all the relevant questions?

[Bailey]

Well, I mean, speaking of Scott, I am curious to know if you clocked him taking the last seat on the couch and not giving it to you.

[Tamara]

I know watching that back was actually so sad, but Madison was really sweet. She like, like, got up, pulled something over for me. But in the moment, I think I was just like. I don't even think I recognized it happening, but a lot of the things he said and did, I was like, oh, my God, that was so mean. But we were having fun, which is all that mattered.

[Natalie]

Not Scott.

[Tamara]

It's not Scott, but no, that was actually crazy. It could be. Maybe he apologized. You guys know I love a second chance. And a third and a fourth. I am just was so full of forgiveness.

[Rachel]

Yes, that's what I'm guessing.

[Natalie]

It's not Carrington. That's really cute. I do love that.

[Rachel]

I don't know.

[Tamara]

It could be Ray.

[Natalie]

Is it Ray? It's not Ray.

[Tamara]

You're trying to steer into a different direction. I don't know, you guys.

[Natalie]

My intuition knows that it's Carrington. Okay, that's really cute. I love that for you.

[Nick]

You Nick Lachey fan.

[Tamara]

I do like Nick Lachey, but I don't feel like I relate to him like I do to Jesse. Like, he has a relationship with us. I don't feel like Nick.

[Nick]

Nick didn't.

[Tamara]

I mean, he didn't say, hey, yeah. But Jesse, like, you know, he's just such a great host, so it's hard to compete. I'm just big Jesse Palmer fan.

[Nick]

Although Jesse did kind of let. Kind of Jesse's fault. What happened to you with Clayton.

[Tamara]

Yeah. And then he went to eat at the hotel across the street. We still joke about it. He goes, I said hi to you, and I went and let the whole place blow up.

[Nick]

That was like. Was that Jesse's first season?

[Tamara]

Yes, his first Bachelorette and Bachelor season was.

[Nick]

Because then he, like, came down. He was like, all right, well, good luck.

[Tamara]

He set me and Gabby up the stairs, and all hell broke loose.

[Nick]

He's like, well, that sounds like. That sucks. I'm gonna go get some shrimp.

[Tamara]

Genuinely, are you.

[Natalie]

Thinking of, like, hooking anyone? Any of these guys up with Genevieve?

[Tamara]

I'm always thinking about hooking guys up with Genevieve. I don't know. I would actually say she would probably be. She would like Louie. She would like Daniel. I don't know. I feel like those are maybe the only two that are kind of her type.

[Nick]

Is Freddie in a relationship with someone? Is that why. Why you refuse to.

[Natalie]

I mean, he also does. Like, he lives in the uk, Right.

[Tamara]

I will say I do really like Freddie with someone. They're not, but I could look back and see him doing really well in a relationship with someone on the cab. Okay. But doesn't mean that they're not seeing someone. Like, everyone is kind of in a weird situation, but. But maybe him and Madison are still together.

[Nick]

I hope not.

[Tamara]

We can't give any spoilers. I'm gonna. Netflix is gonna sue me.

[Natalie]

We definitely hope not.

[Bailey]

God, that would be sweet Freddy.

[Tamara]

They were really like him. I thought him and Madison, like, listen, we're one of our.

[Nick]

The most toxic relationships always start off great.

[Tamara]

I know, but they don't do anything toxic. Really? Like, what do they do?

[Nick]

That's because Freddy's an angel.

[Tamara]

Like, even when they were ripping him away from her, like, he wrote her a note and I gave sounds like Freddy. Like, it was really sweet. No, Freddy's really sweet. He's a really good guy. He's really sweet. Like, he is as sweet as he looks.

[Bailey]

Wait, I have one more question for Rachel. Okay, so when Juliet left, she said to the cameras, one thing I know for sure, Clayton and Rachel are boring. Have you spoken to Juliet since? And, like, how did that make you feel?

[Tamara]

I will say This. I do love Juliet. I think with Juliet, she definitely. She spent her life on reality TV in a way I cannot understand. Like, that was like her real life for years. So I think when she is filming, she's like, in a different.

[Nick]

She's making tv.

[Tamara]

She's making tv. And I can respect that because I think what Juliet says about me isn't how Juliet actually feels. Maybe she'll come sit here and be like, I hate Rachel, but I'm trying to look at her more as like a TV maker. Yes.

[Nick]

You've really character under. You know. You really have.

[Tamara]

I have, Yeah. I don't feel like I have.

[Nick]

Look at me crying. You used to really hate us.

[Natalie]

Hated Nick.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Tamara]

No, because you were mean. No, but you were mean. And you made this full video about how I didn't like Aven and I really love David. And I was like, this is wrong. I remember that video. And I was like, he's saying. You were saying how I didn't like talking about stuff and I only like Tino. And I was trying to like, make it even's fault. And then everyone agreed with you. And I was like, no, Avon180. And I freaked out and I just was like, no, but the same.

[Nick]

The same premise with Juliet, that she's just. She's this. Is she working? She's.

[Tamara]

I don't think I was working, though.

[Nick]

No, you weren't then, but now you understand that you are working with people who are working.

[Tamara]

I understand that from doing Netflix. I never experienced that on the basket. Why? The love island people especially, they. They know what they are doing. And I come from a mindset of, like, even though this is fun, all genuine, I still genuinely, like, want to find a. A man and like a boyfriend or like, this could be something for me. And it's fun, but they are like, I got to get a bed. So next weekend I'm like, what's the prize?

[Natalie]

Isn't.

[Nick]

No, you're right though, because, like, but on Bachelor, it is just ingrained into you that you. You have to be genuine. You cannot have the wrong intentions. And so you're just like, ingrain it into yourself that, like, I am only here for love. Don't anyone question genuinely, though.

[Tamara]

But I feel like that, like, I. I still am there. Because I do.

[Nick]

Sure. But like, you can simultaneously, I think in Bachelor world, you can simultaneously be open to meeting people and genuinely want to meet someone and also recognize that, like, you signed up for a TV show.

[Tamara]

Yeah, but this one, it's just very out in the open, it feels like.

[Natalie]

Have you noticed difference in fans, Netflix fans versus Bachelor Nation fans?

[Tamara]

I feel like it's been a really slow, slow start. Like I'm not even really seeing anything like, of what people think. I'm like, what do people think about the show?

[Nick]

I feel like it's no, maybe you're just not looking.

[Tamara]

I don't know if I don't search for it, but normally with Bachelor, it's like it's right in your face and people tell you how they feel. And yeah, I haven't really seen much so far.

[Nick]

Well, you going to stick around for Bailey?

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Great. Up next, Bailey joins us to talk about her feelings regarding the whole Susie Jeremy of it all. And Kindred. Kindred spirits. Well, by now you've probably heard of Built, and if you are paying rent and not earning rewards, then really, what are you doing? You need to check out Built. Built is a rewards program that is built for renters who want to get more out of where they live, whether that's through travel, dining or neighborhood perks. Perfect for anyone who is paying rent and wants to turn their largest monthly expense into opportunities for experiences. Bilt helps you earn points at home, in the city and beyond paying rent. Through Built, you can earn flexible points that can be redeemed towards hundreds of hotels and airlines, a future rent payment, your next Lyft ride, and more. But it doesn't stop there. Built is about making your entire neighborhood more rewarding. You can dine out at your favorite local restaurants and earn additional points, get VIP treatment at certain fitness studios and enjoy exclusive experiences just for Built members every month. Bilt is turning a monthly expense into an opportunity to earn rewards and discover the best that your neighborhood has to offer. Your rent is finally working for you. Earn points on rent and around your neighborhood, wherever you call home, by going to joinbuilt.com v I a l l that is joinbuilt.com that's j O-I-N b I l t.com v I l l make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you Mint Mobile. You know what doesn't belong in your epic summer plans? Getting burned by your old wireless bill. While you're planning beach trips, barbecues and three day weekends, your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back. That's why we made the switch to Mint Mobile. With plans Starting at just 15 bucks a month, Mint Mobile gives you premium wireless service on the nation's largest 5G network. Coverage and speed you're used to but way less money. So while your friends are sweating over data overages and surprise charges, you'll be chilling, literally and financially.

[Natalie]

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[Nick]

We all know if you've been with some of those major premier providers out there, you're paying through the roof and you're still complaining about your servers. So stop doing that and make the switch to Mint Mobile today. Bailey, welcome to the show. Calling in from Portugal, apparently from Portugal.

[Bailey]

How are you guys?

[Nick]

We're great. Great to be with you. First off, what are you doing in Portugal?

[Bailey]

So I live here part time. My mom and my sister live here. We've lived here for a few years and I just come every few months and try to stay for as long as I can until they kick me out of the country, so. Oh, nice.

[Nick]

I've never been to Portugal. You recommend?

[Bailey]

Oh my God. You have to come. It's. It's literally the best. All you do is like drink wine, eat good food. I shop a lot, do some sightseeing. It's. It's really a really easy way of life. I love it here.

[Tamara]

My dream date. Cute.

[Natalie]

I actually saw Jeremy post. I think he's in Portugal.

[Bailey]

A few people have actually like been from our cast have been in town this summer. So it's been like, like fun. I've like gotten to see a few people as they. Sean was just here a few days ago, so yeah, it's been nice. I feel like as people like pop in, they like ask me for wrecks and then I like send them on their way. But it's a really like, it's an easy spot to like come visit especially.

[Nick]

Well, you know what BIP stands for Bachelor in Portugal.

[Bailey]

So, you know, Bachelor in Portugal, everyone's Coming. Actually, I. I have promised Kathy a trip. So when I did, like, Bachelor happy hour, I promised. Promised Kathy and Susan that we would go on a, like, on a Portugal trip. So I need to, like, fulfill my promise very soon.

[Natalie]

We would also, like, promise we're gonna.

[Tamara]

Be there tomorrow, actually.

[Rachel]

Red eye.

[Natalie]

You're handing out invites. We'll take a couple.

[Nick]

Well, Bailey, we've absolutely been enjoying you on Bachelor in Paradise this season. You've been a class act. You've been the epitome of honesty and straightforwardness, a great communicator. The man that you are currently hanging out with seems to be the opposite of that. Rachel is here. Is here because we were talking some perfect match. She's also a fan of Bachelor in Paradise. Obviously. We saw the previews for next episode where it seems like maybe shit might hit the fan. But you are watching it along with us, and I am curious, like, what was it like for you a few weeks back, going on the date that you were asked to go on that you had every right to say yes to? It is bach her in Paradise. It seems like it's about testing the relationship. And as soon as that happened, Jeremy freaks out, goes full Susie Evans, calls her bags, kicking, screaming, crying, throwing up. Just, like, needs Susie back in his life, gets rejected by Susie, then tells his boys he's like, like, dead. Said he's ready to propose. He's in love. He's in love with Susie Evans. Doesn't happen. And then you come back from the date and it's as if it never happened. How was that for you? Watching it back? Yeah, let's start there.

[Bailey]

Yeah. I mean, I think everyone can relate. Watching it back is such an interesting thing. I feel like you're watching it happen in real time. You have no idea. All these things happened. I. I honestly was like, I think so focused on Bachelor in Paradise when I was there. I really wasn't thinking about watching it back later. It's definitely been hard to watch it back. I'm obviously not gonna lie. Like, it's. It's been rough to watch these happen and you know how you felt in the moment. And it's hard because you're also seeing how other people feel in the moment. Obviously, like, Rachel, you can relate to this. Not everything is, like, always shown during Paradise. There's so many different relationships forming and things happening that they only have enough time to, like, you know, show a little bit of piece of everyone. If I mean, like two episodes ago, all I got was gum sharing. So really I was like, I was happy to be, like, out of the limelight for a little bit. And I, like, I understand the, like, thoughts of doubt. I feel like that was really hard to watch somebody, you know, doubt you when you know how you're feeling. But I also feel like, you know, I have to just, like, be okay watching it back and just having. I just have to be okay processing it because, like, you know, I'm remembering how I felt in the moment, and I don't regret my feelings and how I was moving. So, like, I just. I honestly just have to be, like, content with, like, where I was and just focus on me and my feelings coming off of this episode. Just, like, remembering how good our date was and things like that. I feel like that's what I'm trying to keep in the back of my head. It's also, like, it's such a short time. Like, it seems like it's such a long time, and it's kind of a short amount of time. And so you're really having to process those feelings. And, I mean, I wish Jeremy didn't process them out loud, but I guess I also just, like, have to be okay because, like, I don't regret, like, going on our date and all these things. You know what I mean? I'm so glad I went on the date with Andrew. I feel like I wanted to make sure no matter when I left paradise, that I would leave with no regrets. And if I didn't fulfill it to, you know, know, if I didn't do as much as I could, then I would have definitely, like, had moments of doubt as well. Um, and so I feel like they kind of just like, sneak up on you and it's a hard watch, no matter what.

[Nick]

That. That makes sense. And obviously you seem like a very classy person and you're being classy. I think the. Like, the. What confuses most people, though, is, like, I'm assuming you wish that Jeremy would have told you sooner or that he would have moved differently and been more transparent. It's one thing for him to, like, you said, like. Like, maybe he was just having a moment. He was kind of sharing those feelings out loud to everyone, including us and the cameraman. But it was this more that he shared it with everyone but you. He's just operating as if, like, this is the only right. Like, if he's not doing anything wrong, where it's almost like, why, why. Why would I tell her, you know, like, it's none of your business, like, stay out of me and Bailey's relationship kind of energy. But maybe you see it differently.

[Bailey]

I mean, I feel like, it hard. I think, in the moment. I wish that, you know, definitely I would have known, like, he was having these feelings of doubt. I don't necessarily know that they would have, like, changed how our relationship progressed. I feel like we would have progressed the same way. I mean, I do feel like, you know, there's moments where we had a lot of, like, open and honest communication, and I can't, like, speak to where his mental was and, like, where his head is at, obviously. Of course. I wish that, you know, I would have been told about the phone call immediately. I wish that my friends would have told me about the phone call. It does suck when, like, everyone's in on something and you're not. It's like, it's a. That's a really hard processing. I feel like that's kind of what I'm processing right now is like, you know, the idea that, like, I was the last person to find out. And it's hard. I think there's so much going on that sometimes you don't think that things are. Are critical for people to know. And. And it's also hard. Like, we're also in the beginning stages of, you know, getting to know each other and knowing each other deeper. And I think sometimes what people feel like is an important factor. Like, I think for a lot of my friends, as to maybe why they didn't tell me, they, like, just didn't think that I wanted to know. We. We definitely had a conversation after my date with Andrew where I don't think it was shown on camera, but we just spoke to each other, and I was just like, you know, do you want to know about my date with Andrew? He said he didn't want to know. I said I didn't want to know about his date with Susie. He asked me after his date if I wanted to know about the date. I had, like, no desire to know about the date because, like, honestly, it's like, what can you do after, like, I. I don't care if you guys kiss. You guys didn't kiss. It doesn't matter how many times you guys made out. Like, that's not really going to change where we are now. So I feel like I don't know what. What I think is important for people to know, not necessarily everyone else does. And so I think I'm also trying, like, give everyone grace and understanding of everyone having, you know, of everyone not telling me, him included. I wish that he would have told me. I wish that it like, obviously wasn't Brian. I think Brian's, like, a good person. I don't have anything against him. But yeah, obviously you want the person that you're, like, involved with to tell you, or you want the people closest to you to tell you, you know, so, yeah, it is like, it's a hard watch no matter what.

[Nick]

What do you make of Brian's behavior towards Parisa and his? It really. I mean, Brian seems to be like, top guy in the sense that, like, a lot of these men really seem very sensitive when it comes to their very particular ways of dating. Brian being the most sensitive and he just kind of comes across as a dick a little bit. Not sure if you saw that being on the beaches of paradise, but, like, you know, he just seems to be very dismissive, in short, with Parisa. And I wonder if. If you saw that energy on the beach or is that something that is surprising you watching it back?

[Bailey]

Okay, so I feel like the thing is, I definitely. There were moments where you notice that, like, people's relationships are just having, you know, little, little things. I definitely knew about his, like, mini, little, like, I don't want to call it a freak out, but his, like, little mini situation, I didn't know in depth. I didn't know it was, like, about colors or things. You know, there's. We're also seeing a small part of their date. They obviously had like a whole night in the vip. VIP suite. But, like, I definitely think there's moments where people's energy shift and maybe they're just, like, overwhelmed. I can tell you, like, Birds of Paradise was like, the most overstimulating night of my life. There was so much going on. We, you know, we had. Everyone was like, having a little drink here and there. It was a long night. I do feel like, you know, him and Prisa, like, matched up well. But, yeah, I think it's hard. Like, there's moments where you just notice things and you're like, okay, maybe I wouldn't be okay with that. But like. Like, I can't say what everyone would and wouldn't be okay with in their relationship. So I feel like it's kind of hard. I think I noticed a switch up when him and Zoe, like, when the new girls were coming in that day, he definitely had a shift in energy. So I think maybe he's like. I don't know if he knows how to process his energy as well as, like, all the girls do. And I think there's a lot of moments where I feel like the guys are processing at a totally different speed than, like, what we. We are. And, you know, we're always thinking about the bigger picture and, like, what. You know, there's so much more to, like, what's going on, and sometimes they're, like, really just, like, living in the moment. I don't think that Brian is, like, a dick, though.

[Natalie]

What were your thoughts on watching the way Jeremy kind of handled Brian the night of, like, you having to choose who was going home and Brian kind of, like, pitching his reasoning to stay. How did you feel like Jeremy handled that?

[Bailey]

I feel like Jeremy was, like, kind of kidding during that moment. I thought, like, we were kind of making jokes with Brian and Prisa before. Like, you know, if they wanted to, like, I don't know. I don't know. The word is, like, bribe us. Like, you know, if they were to win, they could, like, share the money with us. We were just, like, doing silly jokes. So I think I was a little bit shocked that Brian thought that I would send him home. Like, that was one of the. That was definitely my hardest decision of Paradise. And, like, I think you can see how emotionally, like, distraught I am during that. That moment. But I feel like I didn't know that Brian was taking it as really serious, that he was really scared that we were going to send him home. It was never a thought in our minds. Obviously, in the moment, you still need to hear everyone out and be really open to, like, all choices. But I came into paradise, like, having no idea that I was going to have to make that intense decision. And so having to end somebody's journey short was definitely shitty. But I can't imagine doing that to my friend. And, you know, I consider Brian and Brisa both friends. Like, I can't. I can't. I share a best friend. Even though we weren't best friends at the time, I just. I can't fathom doing that to, like, either of them. And Jeremy and I had already spoken about that, so I think Jeremy went into the conversation with a little more of a joking vibe, obviously not knowing what could happen later going into next week. I mean, you never know. It's paradise. So, like, things happen.

[Natalie]

Who is the best friend that you and Prisa share?

[Bailey]

Seraphina.

[Rachel]

Oh, okay.

[Bailey]

From Grant season.

[Tamara]

Yes.

[Bailey]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Got it.

[Rachel]

When the announcement of the money coming into play for Paradise, a. Like, how did that change things for you? And my second part is, was there anybody's behavior that you were shocked by once they heard about the money? Like, how they were moving at Paradise?

[Bailey]

Yeah, I feel like when they announced the money, I think my initial thought was just like, holy shit, I didn't sign up for Survivor. And then I think my next thought was just like, like, oh, okay. Like, it's kind of more relationship tests. So I just felt like keeping along with the same point of paradise. Like, you come with the mindset that you're like going to paradise to leave in a relationship. And I just felt like my initial thought was just like, if you're not working towards loving your partner or really liking your partner and wanting to be with your partner, there's just no way you're gonna win this. So it doesn't even matter. Like, yes, $500,000 is like, absolutely amazing and it's insane, but the only people that are gonna win it are the people that are like, like, in love or working towards, like, really knowing their partner or really building their relationship so that it lasts out of here. So I feel like. I think a lot of the guys were like, holy. Just like, oh my God, that's so much money. And I think a lot of the girls were like, okay, so we came here to like, get engaged. We need to like, keep working towards, like, getting engaged. Because, like, that's the point. I mean, it was weird. It's like a weird shift. You're like, like slightly happy that you're not having to worry about anyone else coming in. And then you're also like, oh, my God, now I'm waking up in fear every day of what Jesse's gonna throw at us. Just like having no idea what's going on. So I feel like it was just like, oh, that night, like, it was just like a wave of confusion. You're just like, so much could happen. And I was so scared. I was like, are they gonna like, make me eat cockroaches? I had like so much fear. Like, that was my biggest fear. I like, was like, what am I gonna have to do to like, get this amount of money? And then I was also just like, oh, you're not gonna win if, like, you don't love your partner. So, like, if you don't really like your partner. That's the whole point. So I think we all knew that that was like part of it because it was so. It's relationship based challenges. So, yeah, I think more just like fear, excitement, because, like, that's so cool. And also just like a lot of nerves. And I don't feel like anyone like, really had had too intense of like a strategy going into it. I think people were like, trying to figure Out. Especially, like, what. It's the first week of challenges, so I think people were just trying to figure out, is everyone gonna, like, switch up and make this into, like, you know, an intense, like, Survivor where you're, like, sending home your friends? And I guess for that, we're just gonna have to, like, keep and see what happens in the upcoming weeks.

[Nick]

I don't know if this is relevant because we don't know what happens at the end, but does it. Do you think Jeremy knows that a wedding costs more than $56,000? Was it that. That Brian.

[Natalie]

Oh, yeah, Brian.

[Nick]

Yeah, Brian. Brian and Friza are never gonna make it. I don't know if they leave the benches of paradise together. I don't know. But, like, this boy is in for a rude awakening if he can't even talk about colors. And the next thing, he's gonna find out that he has to drop more than 56 G's on a wedding.

[Bailey]

Their questions were hard. I felt like they got hard questions. I'm like, I. And, well, it was hard because in that moment, we're like, we were so excited that we won that challenge. Like, we also. Obviously, this is not shown, but we spent so much time, like, majority of the questions we got, you don't get to see all the questions, but majority of the questions we got, we had already spoken about. So I think that was nice. I think a lot. You know, the questions are randomized, so, like. Like, we haven't had that question, but, like, in my head, I would know that a wedding costs more than $56,000. I'm like, oh, that's like, wow, you got a cheap wedding at this point, like, geometry venue is like, you know that.

[Nick]

Brian was just like, I would never. I will never spend that much money on my wedding.

[Rachel]

I married in the backyard.

[Nick]

Married in the backyard. And she's going to love it. You know? You know that the one question that.

[Bailey]

Brian and Barcelona got, it was like, how much money have you spent on an article of clothing? And I was like, oh, this is, like, easy. Like, I was, like, looking at. I remember watching them answer the question. I was like, this is so easy. Brian is, like, wearing scotch and soda pants right now. He's literally wearing scotch and soda pants, and he has Louis Vuitton, like, slides on. I'm like, this is like.

[Rachel]

Like, $300.

[Bailey]

I'm like, are you checking your bank statements?

[Rachel]

I was like. I was like.

[Bailey]

But then at that moment, like, you're in the challenge, and you're not even thinking about that, and, like, Obviously, I'm sitting back, so I'm just having time to watch it. I'm like, yes, they're going to get this one. And then I realized I was like. Like, maybe everyone, like, isn't intensely obsessed with clothing. Like, I am. So maybe everyone wouldn't know how much this, like, random men's brand costs. Like, I have a little brother, so I just feel like it was hard. Like, we got really lucky with our questions being the first one. Like, how many texts? Because we all talked about that that morning together as a group, and unfortunately, I was the person with, like, the most unread text, so it just came out like that. We got lucky that day. But, yeah, crazy.

[Nick]

I have 217 currently unread, so I'm the complete opposite.

[Bailey]

I already think you want to know. It's. It's like in the 1600s right now. It's really.

[Natalie]

Bailey, that's insane.

[Nick]

I mean, mostly my. My 217 are for me. I think it's like five group chats. If those five group chats didn't exist.

[Natalie]

It's his family group chat.

[Nick]

Well, most of my family group chat.

[Bailey]

Oh, like, group chat's muted.

[Natalie]

Do not disturb immediately.

[Nick]

I don't know. People. Somehow people break through.

[Bailey]

A lot's been happening this season. So I think people have been texting me and they're like, oh, Bailey's not responding. And I'm just like, guys, I'm overwhelmed.

[Natalie]

Well, after this episode, they'll probably be like, oh, it's not just us.

[Bailey]

They're like, oh, she doesn't hate me.

[Natalie]

We're not alone.

[Nick]

Well, Bailey, we'll let you get back to Portugal, whatever it is you're doing out there. Tell Jeremy we said hi, if that is relevant. Just kidding.

[Bailey]

I don't think I'm gonna run into him, unfortunately.

[Nick]

But that's too.

[Natalie]

At the beach this morning. Yeah, Maybe you can find that beach. Maybe.

[Bailey]

You know, I've literally been shopping all day, so.

[Nick]

Oh, okay.

[Bailey]

You know, heading home soon. Yes.

[Natalie]

So different.

[Bailey]

Yeah, I gotta get. I gotta get all my, like, European brands out the way, you know?

[Nick]

Yes, it's been a pleasure, Bailey. Thank you for taking the time. It was lovely chatting with you. Good luck the rest of the way. We're rooting for you. And it was always, always. It's always great to catch up.

[Bailey]

Thank you, guys. I'm happy to be here, and it was so nice to meet you guys. Have a good week.

[Tamara]

Bye, Bailey.

[Bailey]

Bye. Period.

[Rachel]

She said say love.

[Tamara]

That man had a gun to her head. No, Jeremy, Jeremy, he was in the room. I've never seen someone defend a man who did you that dirty.

[Natalie]

No, I mean just had like. No, we have.

[Tamara]

I've never seen that before.

[Rachel]

Love is blind. I'm like, I feel like we have so many people who are like he. But he said. And they're like, yeah, but like it was just like a moment and you're.

[Nick]

Like the whole time she's just like reading off. Like sometimes there's things you don't get to see.

[Tamara]

And when a producer is telling you, no, no, no, don't call. And you're still like, no, call Susie, call Susie. Shabby's like, no, don't, don't do it. And he's still pushing. I think he meant it.

[Nick]

I don't think it would have mattered.

[Natalie]

She says, you know, maybe they stand up Bailey. Maybe next episode we'll see them work through it.

[Tamara]

It has to be Justin Spencer, right?

[Nick]

I don't. I have no idea.

[Tamara]

I actually don't know because I don't know either. They're being very tight lipped. I mean he's.

[Natalie]

They're definitely together in Portugal.

[Tamara]

Oh, I saw he was there.

[Natalie]

Like just, Jeremy, don't post right now. Like if you don't want people to know, like, don't. Why are you.

[Nick]

He's like, bailey's going on the voles, I'm getting on a plane.

[Tamara]

She's like, she's like, Sean is here too. Like, okay.

[Natalie]

She's like, so many people from paradise are here.

[Rachel]

Like, so like Bailey's actually in Portugal and I love that she's only posting promotional for like Bachelor in Paradise.

[Tamara]

And then he's like, he's like, I'm in Portugal.

[Nick]

You know why though? Because he wants, he wants people to know that she forgave him.

[Tamara]

No, because he thinks they won't go as hard.

[Nick]

Probably. Yeah.

[Tamara]

Oh yeah. He's just like together. You have to protect them to some degree. Which means it's probably worse. That's my thing.

[Nick]

You worse. What do you mean?

[Tamara]

Like when they're protecting a couple that makes it. They always edit things out. Like they don't show every single thing.

[Nick]

So what do you think Bailey's might be hiding? Or do you think they.

[Tamara]

No, I think they're together and then production's like, how can we.

[Natalie]

It's just like this, only a little bit without it.

[Tamara]

A little bit, yeah.

[Nick]

But either way, like if Bailey's with them them then she's. I mean.

[Tamara]

But you can't tell me that that was just a lapse in judgment. It went on for days.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Tamara]

I mean, he said it immediately after.

[Natalie]

If we see next episode, him be like, take full accountability. Apologize.

[Nick]

And like, he doesn't strike me as that kind of guy.

[Natalie]

We'll see. He has to have done something for Bailey to have forgiven him and not want to, like, talk one ounce of.

[Nick]

Could his gas litter. What do we think?

[Tamara]

That was the craziest thing. I don't know.

[Nick]

I mean, Bailey, we love you.

[Tamara]

I'm a huge Bailey fan. She's this, like. I feel like she's the it girl. Every guy wants her. I loved her dating Andrew. I was like, I saw that. I know I really like them together.

[Nick]

But just if it were, like, objectively speaking, if you're just watching as a friend from afar, like, do you wish better for Bailey?

[Tamara]

I mean, of course, but I also feel like. I mean, isn't Alex her closest friend? And she didn't tell her. She told Jill and Kat.

[Bailey]

Right.

[Natalie]

Which is crazy.

[Tamara]

Like, she heard from Brian. I didn't know this.

[Natalie]

And immediately not going to your girl.

[Tamara]

And being like, oh, I'd be sprinting if that was Jill.

[Bailey]

They kept me.

[Natalie]

Couldn't have even finished the sentence.

[Tamara]

And I would be in that room.

[Natalie]

I'd be like, I don't really know what he said because I came to you so fast, but I heard. I heard it.

[Tamara]

He called su and I came to you.

[Nick]

I think they're engaged.

[Tamara]

Oh, my gosh. Wait. I didn't even think that that could be a possibility. Please. No. Crazy.

[Nick]

Could you imagine if someone goes up to Bailey and be like, just so you know that your boyfriend is engaged to another woman right now?

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

So they actually. They left the show together.

[Nick]

Yeah. She said yes. I think they're in love.

[Natalie]

Crazy. Well.

[Nick]

Well, we'll tune in next week.

[Tamara]

We'll be watching Bailey.

[Nick]

All right.

[Tamara]

Well, thank you, Rachel.

[Nick]

It's always good to catch up with you.

[Tamara]

Thanks, guys. Love you.

[Nick]

Good luck the rest of the way. It's just you. You seem like you're doing well. You look great. You just really seem like I am happy.

[Tamara]

Yeah, it's been a good.

[Nick]

You know, when we first met, you were just more of a shell of yourself, and now you're just a shining, bright star.

[Tamara]

Ew. This compliment means so much. We stitched that with the video of him roasting me.

[Nick]

I didn't even know you then. I was just, like, talking about a silly show.

[Rachel]

Oh, how things change.

[Nick]

Yeah. We're best friends now.

[Tamara]

We are.

[Nick]

Always. Good to see you, Rachel.

[Tamara]

Good to see you by.

[Nick]

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[Nick]

I'm gonna tell you a little story. Natalie and I went to Tyler Cameron's house over the 4th of July and I did one of those classic Tyler Cameron workouts in his garage. All thanks to Tonal. He has a tonal gym in his garage and I also am getting one up at the lake and it is absolutely an incredible experience. It is a full body workout. They have a ton of different workouts at literally everything you need. And also it's stylus, it's slick, it goes up right against the wall. Save yourself the time and money of all those gym memberships you're not using. It takes to go to and from the gym. You can be done with an intense, quick 25 minute workout with your tunnel gym. That's all you could possibly need.

[Natalie]

Tonal provides the convenience of a full gym and the guidance of a personal trainer anytime at home. With one sleek system, it's designed to reduce your mental load. Tonal is the ultimate strength and training system, helping you focus less on workout planning and more on getting results. No more second guessing your form. Tonal gives you real time coaching cues to dial in your form and help you lift safely and effectively. Right now, Tonal is offering our listeners $200 off your tonal purchase with promo code V I A L L that's tonal.com and use promo code V I A l l for $200 off your purchase. That's tonal t o n a l.com promo code v I a l l for $200 off. Well, if you didn't catch this episode of the Real Housewives of Orange county, here is your rapid recap. In case we forgot Shannon called Katie a John Jansen Johnson looking Alexis Bellino sounding psychopath at Heather's birthday party last week. But then Katie leaves the party crying. Oh no. And just as we think it's going to get boring from there, who shows up but Tamara Judge. And for backup, Ms. Joe de la Rosa. If you don't know, Joe is Slade's ex fiance that Gretchen has feuded with at BravoCon as recently as 2023. But don't worry, they're not looking for any drama. In fact, they say a little prayer for peace on the way. However, God does not seem to hear them. Although she did hear us because we must mention the different reads G and Emily have for Gretchen, which are a fake person like she dips herself in formaldehyde every night and a Barbie filter from 2003. God bless us everyone. The rest of the episode is fine. Gina calls stress balls a metaphor for de stressing. Jen and Ryan get matching veneers. Tamara's daughter serves Sky Ferrera realness while piercing ears. But then an accusation of more fraud this time journalistic in nature is thrust upon Katie and oh, Tamra begrudgingly meets with Jen instead of doing what I assume she's working on in therapy, which is forgiving revenge, releasing anger, taking accountability, etc, Tamara throws a little baby rumor out on national television that Jen cheated on Ryan and compared her to Norman Bates himself. But before you judge Tamara Judge, remember the road to healing takes many forms overall. Is Katie going to Radar Online herself? And to Lisa Vanderpump territory? How will Heather handle this ever evolving housing market? Tune in next week to find out on the Real Housewives of Orange County. The fact that this is two episodes at this damn party that no One is at that.

[Rachel]

That's great.

[Gertie]

Awesome.

[Nick]

I'm really disappointed.

[Gertie]

I loved this episode.

[Nick]

But, like, we. Can we talk about the parties?

[Natalie]

It's empty. Tamara walks in. No one is around her. No one.

[Nick]

It's so funny showing shots of an empty party. The party that, like, for two episodes ago. They wanted us to believe that Heather and Terry are so rich that you're just wasting money on these parties, which we all know they're not packed, paying for. Come on, get some. Get some fans in the room. Take their phones, you know, like, fill up the room.

[Natalie]

Was it on like a Tuesday night? I just like, where was everyone?

[Gertie]

The vibes of the party. The vibes of the party did seem weeknight in nature.

[Natalie]

It did seem weak night. It seems like people, like kids had school in the morning, People had to work.

[Rachel]

She said, I need enough space to be able to chuck ice shot glasses at a gong without people getting hit. I can't get sued.

[Natalie]

Can't get sued.

[Nick]

Who was. Who was Gina and Gretchen? Gretchen. Who was the third person in that group when. When Gina said to Gretchen, another person I can't place. When she goes, we all look the same. Jen, was it Jen. And Jen and Gretchen were like, no, we don't. Did any of you clock that? I was.

[Gertie]

I was. I was.

[Nick]

Gretchen and Jen do not think they look like Gina or the rest.

[Natalie]

I think the women.

[Gertie]

But then also you have Gina and Emily saying Gretchen looks like she dips herself in formalda hide every night.

[Natalie]

No, That's a crazy thing to say about someone awesome.

[Rachel]

That's crazy. Honestly, it was the Barbie filter from 2003 for me. And then the emphasis. No, but like, 2003, I was like.

[Natalie]

What was going on in 2003 with the Barbie filter?

[Rachel]

I don't think we had filters in 2003.

[Gertie]

We did not.

[Rachel]

Do we even have Instagram?

[Nick]

No, that's just someone like that, like, you know, and I get it because I'm older. It's like 2003. It's like, oh, that wasn't that long ago. And they're like, no, that was 20 years ago.

[Rachel]

That was 20 plus.

[Nick]

Don't do your math. Yeah, Gina's crushing it.

[Rachel]

I do love Gina as a real estate.

[Nick]

Like, I don't think. I mean, props to her.

[Natalie]

Like, that's a real 10 million. What'd she say last year?

[Nick]

I don't know what. I don't know what. What's commission on, but she's making a million dollar side hustle 100%.

[Rachel]

And, like, they're real Business really focused, too. Like her and her boy or husband or boyfriend.

[Tamara]

Fiance.

[Nick]

That's the reality TV person I can get behind. Like, someone who's doing something with their life in. In. In. In addition to the drama they bring to the show.

[Natalie]

Not just Tamra. I love Tamra. Tamara the bitch will be joining us.

[Nick]

For Going Deeper tomorrow. I'm very excited about this. A very deep look into who is Tamara Judge? Is she good? Is she evil? Is she just a really great TV star?

[Rachel]

Is she clocking in?

[Nick]

She clocking in?

[Rachel]

Does she clock out?

[Nick]

Does she clock out?

[Rachel]

I feel like I'd like to know.

[Gertie]

I started. I did not finish, because sometimes I fall asleep to YouTube video essays about their housewives. And I did start one on Tamra Judge, and I didn't finish it, but it was interesting because it was talking about how basically Tamra kind of created the blueprint for Housewives as we know them. Because before Tamra, and correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't know deep OC lore, but it started off as more of just a true docu series, right? Following these women. And then Tamra comes in and makes it a game.

[Rachel]

I mean, I think Tamara was the first one I saw, like, throw wine in someone's face. And I was like, oh, my God.

[Nick]

She's also one of the first people to be put on pause.

[Gertie]

So say what you will about Tamra Judge, but she kind of is the blueprint for the modern household.

[Natalie]

And the thing is, is, like, last season, I was so anti Tamra. I, like, was so frustrated with the way that she was handling Shannon and the whole season. I just did not. It was a hard watch for me. And then I met her at Crystal Minkoff's Christmas party, and she's so charming and delightful in person.

[Nick]

And I was like, yeah.

[Natalie]

And I was like, oh, my God. She's like, maybe that is just a character and this is the real Tamara. And I can respect her craft for being a great TV maker, but where.

[Nick]

Do we separate the line between, say, like that and, say, a Jack Staler?

[Natalie]

Because he doesn't his. There is no, like, there's no line. There is no line.

[Bailey]

His.

[Natalie]

His. Who he is on TV is who he is in real life. And they're both awful people.

[Nick]

Okay, The.

[Natalie]

The conversation with Jen at the Mexican restaurant, first of all, and her being like, well, we all know it wasn't the first time. And Jen going, and you haven't cheated. And she's going, and I have.

[Nick]

No, she. She goes, no, she goes, well, Maybe.

[Rachel]

Well, maybe.

[Natalie]

And she goes, but. But your second time scandal, it's awesome. I mean, the way she's able to.

[Tamara]

Just drop a rumor and then it.

[Natalie]

Just is like a bomb goes off.

[Nick]

Yeah, but then someone comes back to her. But what about your rumor? And she goes, well, maybe moving on.

[Rachel]

Like, we're not talking about me.

[Natalie]

You did it twice with your yoga instruct, with your. Like, it's like.

[Rachel]

But that's the best part, too, is that it's like this. Like, she's like projection personified, where she's just like.

[Nick]

Like.

[Rachel]

Yeah. And you don't take accountability for anything, Jen. You don't.

[Bailey]

You start these things.

[Rachel]

And I'm like, you're literally talking about yourself. But then she drops the bomb and it's like, yeah. Wait, what were we talking about, Jen?

[Natalie]

Yeah, and then she's like an. I'm out of here, literally. So I'm gonna leave you with that. And I have to go.

[Rachel]

Her going up to Katie, as Katie's storming out of this party before she got even inside. What's wrong, angel pants?

[Natalie]

No, I. I've always cared about you. I don't want to see you crying.

[Rachel]

And I will say I'm gonna give flowers to Katie's husband, Matt. The way that, like, is, he didn't get heightened. He didn't try to be a housewife, but he was just like, are we being fucking serious right now? Yeah. Are you gonna be the one to come for her?

[Nick]

But why are we mad at Tamara for that?

[Rachel]

Because Tamara's the one that's going around telling everybody. And she brought it up, but 100%. But that's what I'm saying. It's like, I feel like for Katie, she feels like she's very much being not blamed, but, like, every. Everything that she's done is now all of a sudden putting in a light that she did something with a certain intention where I'm like, all of these things Tamara has known about for a span of time, and you're choosing to release it now?

[Natalie]

I think that is what reality television is. I think that is what makes Tamra a great reality TV star is because she does take this information and she does hold on to it until the exact, like, night or, like, way that she needs to release it, and you can't. And, like, Katie trying to pin it on Tamra for just telling everyone. It's like, no, you. You did it. Like, you're like, what do you mean? You're. It's Tamara's fault. Like, you're the one who did it.

[Gertie]

But then it's interesting to think about that in context with, like, Miami.

[Tamara]

Right.

[Gertie]

With Gertie and Julia. Because Tamra has the ability to hold and release at the perfect time in a way that it seem that the audience is okay with. And lands in a way that you're like, this is good tv. But then when Julia. To hear, like, Gertie talking about the way Julia did it with the cruise.

[Rachel]

Hold on to that for a year.

[Gertie]

And a half and then dropping it. It doesn't land the same way. And I wonder. And, like, that is the true skill of Tam, I think.

[Natalie]

Because with Julia, it's the most, like, nothing burger.

[Gertie]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

That she's trying to make a storyline. You're trying to make the fact that, like, she, like, off. She wanted to come on the cruise, but Gertie's like, I didn't want to come on the cruise. You asked me to come on the cruise. Like, that's nothing.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Tamara is like, you recorded her without her knowing. Like, and. And you showed it to her arch nemesis Alexis. Like.

[Rachel]

But don't you feel like if Tamara was, like, a good friend, then that that would be something that she would need to tell Shannon while litigation's still happening, like that day. But instead she waits a year till cameras pick up to be like, oh, and Katie's awful. Because also this.

[Natalie]

I don't. I don't think Tamara's a great friend.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

By any means.

[Nick]

I don't think. And I don't think her goal is.

[Gertie]

To be a good friend on tv.

[Natalie]

I think she's a great TV maker.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Gertie]

She's a producer.

[Natalie]

She's working. Yeah.

[Nick]

She's like, we're work friends.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

We're not friends friends.

[Natalie]

We're co workers, but we're not friends.

[Rachel]

And she's like, I don't give a fuck if you get fired. So here we go.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Gertie]

What I love about OC because last season for OC didn't super hit for me, but this season, I'm watching it and I'm like, oh, there's something in the water in Orange county that these women are. And I'm not saying this about them in real life, but the way they're presented on tv, it's almost like horror movie esque watching it. Like, there's this evil nature there that is so compelling and so dark and twisted. I don't think they're evil. I just think the show has a tone of like.

[Tamara]

I don't.

[Gertie]

It's like the way they're fighting is like so dark. It's awesome.

[Rachel]

Cause I think I see what you're saying, like, even like with Tamra bringing Jo, for example, that it's kind of like there is that like, you know what you're doing by bringing her, knowing Gretchen's going to be there, knowing Slade's going to be there. But it's like there's a way that Tamara is able to bring them and be like, if you have a problem, then maybe you haven't worked through things. He hasn't been your fiance in years. Why do you care who I'm bringing? You know what I mean? Like, there's a way that it's like almost like a. Did I do that?

[Gertie]

It's like the underbelly.

[Nick]

I love the way OC makes the men on the show look like clout chasing arm candy people in the best possible way.

[Natalie]

Say more.

[Rachel]

I mean, the fact that. Yeah, like, well, Slade's always been like this though. Yeah.

[Nick]

But that's what, you know, like usually it's, you know, the other way around where like you have these shows and then like women are maybe even unfairly painted as like, you know, like B players in a storyline where here you have these men like, who are just trying so hard to like latch on to these star powered women who are famous, who are celebrities. And then you have all these like seemingly like clout chasing men. It's just kind of funny. It's like hilarious.

[Gertie]

A uniquely Orange county phenomena.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Gertie]

Yeah. Which is. It feels like an undercurrent of a society.

[Nick]

And the men all seem like they might be white collar criminals.

[Tamara]

Yes.

[Gertie]

It's it. It is like the blueprint of Housewives at its core.

[Nick]

And I think that's why I'll always, I think I always will side with Tamara over Jen, even if I think that Tamara is being mean or wrong. Is that like Tamara's husband seems like a normal guy and. And Jen's boyfriend. I just. Her taste in men seems so off that I just can't trust Jen's judgment.

[Tamara]

Interesting.

[Nick]

And I feel like Tamara is. Yeah, she's just. She's a professional.

[Gertie]

She is a professional.

[Rachel]

Have we seen Eddie this season?

[Tamara]

No.

[Rachel]

No. Is he not filming?

[Nick]

I don't know.

[Natalie]

He definitely did not want to go to that party.

[Bailey]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

I don't know.

[Nick]

I'm a little concerned that the production is. Is making me question how. How rich Heather and Terry actually are. Oh.

[Gertie]

With them trying to sell that house.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

I mean, it's too like the top real.

[Nick]

Well, I also know that they're lying about the party. Like, it's just.

[Natalie]

Well, they all do that.

[Nick]

I know, but, like, he also. He is botched.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So, like, they have money. Money. No, I know they have money, but I think they're real money.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And I hope so, because I love them being rich.

[Natalie]

Yeah, me too.

[Rachel]

He's a top plastic surgeon. He's. He's loaded.

[Gertie]

My last thought about OC Is that when I saw Tamara's daughter making a little BE beats, I was just like, as. As me personally, I was watching it. I was like, representation is so important.

[Natalie]

Do you make beats?

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Gertie]

No, I just meant Tamma's daughter's vibe in general. I was like, hey.

[Rachel]

And she does. She actually makes really good music.

[Tamara]

You do?

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

So that's what she was. She's representing you?

[Gertie]

No, she was just kind of an alt looking girl. And I was like, hey, look at that.

[Rachel]

Okay.

[Natalie]

Representation is important.

[Gertie]

Representation matters, you guys. Women's stories matter.

[Natalie]

Women's stories matter.

[Tamara]

Matter.

[Nick]

Should we move on to Miami and then call it a day?

[Rachel]

Absolutely.

[Natalie]

All right, well, if you didn't catch this week's episode of the Real Housewives of Miami, here is your rapid recap. Julia and Martina are in their boy mom era, which apparently means wearing Chanel sneakers and making enemies with other women. It's still not clocking to anyone that Gertie is standing on business. Stephanie Sojay is renovating a castle, including a wall for her Birkins and a separate staff entrance. Welcome back, Carrie Coon in the Gilded Age. Kiki and Larsa have to get an extra yacht for their outing because there's so much division in the community group. Hopefully this will help. Spoiler alert. It doesn't. Dr. Nicole briefly returned to remind everyone that she was Stephanie Sojay before Stephanie Sojay, and then she is too emotionally mature to be in the group. And then on the dual boats. Alexia calls herself a rottweiler, says Stephanie Sojay is a Chihuahua. This will become drama, so do not forget it. Adriana, perhaps inspired by the most recent episode of Below Deck, gets absolutely plastered and rants about Marisol having no talent, dry knees, and an evil soul. Alexia tells Gertie that a dick pic would have been better to display on screen at an event than text messages from Julia. But somehow Gertie is still the villain. Interesting. Overall, is Kiki the most beautiful woman in the world? Will anyone be nice to Gertie? Who even cares about Martina? Chanel sneakers? Find out next Week on the Real Housewives of Miami.

[Nick]

Chinese.

[Rachel]

Such an interesting thing to come for.

[Natalie]

It's giving. You smell like hospital.

[Gertie]

Hospital.

[Nick]

Do you see that? Dr. Nicole sold her beach house, Miami Mansion for, like, $40 million or. Robbie.

[Rachel]

Star island one.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

No, like, she's rich enough to, like.

[Bailey]

Live on Star Island.

[Rachel]

Like, she. She's.

[Nick]

Well, she sold the house for 40.

[Gertie]

Mil to the guy with the movie with a monkey playing.

[Rachel]

And she was comparing. She's like, you know, private jets. Like, the fact that, like, these two women, like, they literally got rid of one and then brought in another one that is exactly the same, except I.

[Nick]

Want to be rich enough to sell a house to a.

[Gertie]

A British superstar.

[Rachel]

A British superstar. Yeah.

[Gertie]

Maybe you can sell one to pk.

[Nick]

I don't think.

[Natalie]

I bet he's in the market.

[Nick]

I would need him to have a co Signer.

[Gertie]

Yeah, fair enough.

[Tamara]

I don't.

[Nick]

I don't know.

[Natalie]

Yeah, I don't know if he can get that loan.

[Nick]

You know, I feel like he'd be like, here's an iou. Yeah.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Gertie]

The whole dual boat thing was so funny to me because they were literally on the same boat still.

[Rachel]

Well, it wasn't even a dual boat. It was literally like they connected them. They tied them together, and they're just floating in the middle of the ocean.

[Gertie]

So what was the intention by the two yachts?

[Rachel]

You're all hanging out together, Literally.

[Gertie]

But also Adriana, like, getting so drowned drunk, you know, she does not remember a single word she said about Marisol.

[Rachel]

Not at all. But it's also, like, the second she gets a little tipsy, it's just like, sees red, and Marisol's like, I'm just minding my own business, literally.

[Gertie]

And it's crazy how Marisol can drink all day.

[Nick]

I feel like. I know with reality tv, I need, like, which shows include blacked out, drunk people and which shows actually have, like, drinking rules? Because nowadays I feel like there's different franchises with different rules.

[Natalie]

And, like, and it matters.

[Nick]

And it matters.

[Natalie]

I want to know if you're hammered.

[Nick]

Yeah. I need to know if you're blacked out or. I need to know if, like, that you're. You're. You know, you get one drink a day or, like, one drink an hour that allows you to.

[Natalie]

Or is this your behavior.

[Rachel]

Drunken Persona?

[Gertie]

I will say I don't think. I think Miami. I think the culture of Miami is.

[Rachel]

They'Re drinking and then Alexia calling herself a rottweiler to, like, shut down Stephanie Sojay. And then later on Stephanie's like. Calls her like a rottweiler. What did you call me? Why'd you say that? Why. Why is she talking about me? And it was just like.

[Gertie]

She's so mean. The thing about it's. It's so fun that, like, rarely do I ever, like, agree, like, morally with Alexia. Don't care. I'm always gonna be on her side.

[Rachel]

Really?

[Tamara]

She's.

[Gertie]

Yes, but. No, I know she's wrong. And I like, with the Gertie stuff and all the other, like, I'm obviously like, Team Gertie, whatever. But I'm never mad at Alexia.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Gertie]

I'm just entertained by her.

[Rachel]

I'm just sad for Gertie still, because it's like, I feel like they're all lecturing her about what she should have done and how she went about it, but it's like, to. What she said when she was on our show is that nobody's listening to her.

[Tamara]

No, they literally.

[Gertie]

She is truly just telling them exactly what happened. And then even in this. They were like, did you read. The producers were like, did you read the text messages? And they were like, no, no.

[Rachel]

Larsa's like, I didn't have the time.

[Gertie]

But then they're like, that's the most evil thing you can do.

[Natalie]

There was a lot of.

[Rachel]

But I'm like, you can't say it's the most evil thing you could do if you don't know what's on. Right.

[Nick]

Can you read me a paragraph?

[Rachel]

It's the most evil thing I could do.

[Nick]

Yeah, I didn't read it.

[Gertie]

Sorry that. Hey, happy for you, or sorry that happened.

[Rachel]

And I also want to be rich enough to be renovating a castle.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Gertie]

I really hope she doesn't make it ugly.

[Rachel]

What did she say? It was like 20,000 square feet.

[Gertie]

Yeah. But then she said the original was too Persian. And I was like, what is that supposed to mean?

[Rachel]

Well, she's married.

[Gertie]

I know.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Nick]

But means she's married.

[Rachel]

She's married to a Persian man.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Bailey]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Rachel]

Like, the. The original house was his first wife's. Yeah. And then she was like, I will move in, but we're literally demolishing the entire thing. Not a church.

[Nick]

Talk about the ex wife. Wow. She has to talk shit about a whole culture.

[Gertie]

Exactly. That was my. Well, at first she was like, it, I want a new house so it doesn't remind me of the ex wife. But then she was like. And it was just way too Persian. And I was like, you didn't need.

[Tamara]

To put that in there.

[Rachel]

You didn't need to say that.

[Gertie]

You didn't need to say that, Stephanie.

[Nick]

Okay, well that will do it for this episode. Thank you guys for listening and thank you to our guest Bailey Brown and Rachel Recchia for join our show. Don't forget tomorrow we have a grand slam going deeper with iconic housewife Tamara Judge. I'm very much looking forward to that conversation. I hope you are as well. That will be tomorrow. And then Thursday we have another jam packed episode for you. Clayton Eckhart is scheduled to appear. I think he's feeling a certain way about Perfect Match so hopefully he comes on and shares his side of the story. Also, Hannah Godwin from Bachelor in paradise and she is with us to talk about all things reality tv, get a little update on her life. But she's watching all the shows we are and she'll be joining us, talking with us all about it. That is this week. We'll see you then. Bye bye. The Val House is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing a budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive Progressive you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try that progressive.com progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates prices and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.