E978 – Going Deeper with Tamra Judge

Summary

Summary of Podcast Episode E978 – "Going Deeper with Tamra Judge"

Introduction In Episode E978 of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall welcomes Tamra Judge, a long-standing cast member of The Real Housewives of Orange County (RHOC), for an in-depth conversation. Joined by co-host Natalie Joy and the Household team, the episode delves into Tamra's personal journey, her experiences on reality television, relationships, mental health, and entrepreneurial endeavors.

---

Early Life and Entry into Reality TV

Tamra begins by sharing her challenging early life, revealing that she became a young mother in her last months of high school. "[06:15] Tamra Judge: I got pregnant in my last three months of high school... I didn't know if I was going to keep them."

She discusses her secret marriage to Ryan's father, supported by her parents, and the subsequent struggles of single motherhood. Despite these hardships, Tamra pursued a career in real estate, eventually landing a role on RHOC. "[07:22] Tamra Judge: I was a receptionist at a trash company and dated the owner... that's how I got on the show."

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Challenges on RHOC and Personal Struggles

Tamra opens up about the emotional toll of being on the show, especially during her separation and eventual divorce from Simon, another cast member. "[04:09] Tamra Judge: Covid hit and I got fired from the show... It took me a while to deal with it."

She recounts the difficulties of balancing public scrutiny with personal life, leading her to seek therapy. "[15:36] Tamra Judge: I started therapy because... I have all these things inside me."

Tamra also addresses the impact of reality TV dynamics on personal relationships, particularly with fellow cast member Shannon. "[38:16] Tamra Judge: Shannon was always exhausting to be friends with... she holds grudges like no other."

Mental Health and Autism Revelation

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Tamra's mental health journey, including her recent revelation about being on the autism spectrum. "[56:09] Tamra Judge: My doctor went, 'I wouldn't be shocked if you are somewhere on the spectrum.'"

She describes the challenges of impulsivity and sensory issues, emphasizing the importance of therapy and support from her family. "[57:31] Tamra Judge: It's been very, very difficult."

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Entrepreneurial Ventures and Personal Growth

Beyond television, Tamra highlights her success in business, notably her multi-million dollar CBD and THC companies. "[70:14] Tamra Judge: It's a multi-million dollar company."

She discusses her plans to potentially sell her businesses and focus more on her podcast, which she balances alongside her life in Big Bear and Orange County. "[70:32] Tamara Judge: We'll probably sell it eventually... the podcast is doing well as well."

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Relationships and Current Life

Tamra reflects on her long-term relationship with Eddie, whom she met during her time on RHOC. After facing numerous challenges, including public criticism and personal setbacks, their relationship has endured for 15 years. "[28:13] Tamara Judge: We've been together now for 15 years."

She praises Eddie's supportive nature and his ability to remain calm amidst the chaos of reality TV. "[28:16] Tamara Judge: Eddie is such a zen guy... he tells me where I want him."

Tamra also shares heartfelt sentiments about her daughter, Sophia, emphasizing their close bond and Sophia's understanding of the complexities of her mother's public life. "[65:37] Sophia: Mom is genuinely one of the most caring, hard-working women I know... but people don't see that."

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Navigating Public Perception and Criticism

Addressing the rampant online criticism and rumors, Tamra expresses frustration with anonymous accounts spreading falsehoods about her personal life. "[60:50] Tamara Judge: Somebody wrote a podcast that said they think me and Jen were swingers together. I just went, 'No, not my style.'"

She emphasizes the parasocial nature of internet interactions, where fans believe they understand her life without truly knowing her. "[66:06] Sophia: People don't know us. It's all parasocial. People think they know her and they don't at all."

Tamra advocates for accountability and transparency, highlighting the detrimental effects of unverified rumors on mental health and personal relationships. "[21:49] Tamara Judge: People can say whatever they want... They'll say some of the nastiest things or put out rumors."

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Future Endeavors and Closing Thoughts

As the conversation wraps up, Tamra hints at upcoming developments in her personal and professional life, including her daughter's potential move to New York for music school. "[67:00] Tamara Judge: We're in talks... possibly moving to New York."

She expresses optimism about overcoming past challenges and the continued support from her family. "[68:34] Sophia: Mom is genuinely one of the most caring, hard-working women I know... I love you and you're very caring and you work hard."

Tamra concludes by reiterating her commitment to personal growth, mental health, and maintaining a balanced life despite the pressures of reality TV. "[65:57] Sophia: You can't really know a person through TV, but I love you and you're very caring and you work hard."

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Notable Quotes

• Tamra Judge "[06:15]... I got pregnant in my last three months of high school... I didn't know if I was going to keep them."

• Tamra Judge "[28:13] We've been together now for 15 years."

• Sophia "[65:37] Mom is genuinely one of the most caring, hard-working women I know... I love you and you're very caring and you work hard."

• Tamra Judge "[21:49] People can say whatever they want... They'll say some of the nastiest things or put out rumors."

• Tamra Judge "[56:09]... I have all these things inside of me. I'm explaining all these things to her. And my doctor goes, 'I wouldn't be shocked if you are somewhere on the spectrum.'"

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Conclusion Tamra Judge's candid discussion on The Viall Files offers listeners a comprehensive look into her life beyond the reality TV spotlight. From overcoming early motherhood challenges and navigating the tumultuous world of RHOC to managing mental health and building successful businesses, Tamra's story is one of resilience, self-discovery, and unwavering commitment to her family. Her insights shed light on the often unseen struggles behind the glamorous facade of reality television, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and personal growth.

Transcript

[Host]

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[Tamara Judge]

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[Host]

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[Tamara Judge]

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[Host]

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[Tamara Judge]

We've got it.

[Host]

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[Tamara Judge]

We'll know them.

[Host]

A Pisces who enjoys long walks on the beach.

[Tamara Judge]

You've got other sites for that. Homes.com We've done your homework.

[Host]

Do you watch them all?

[Tamara Judge]

I haven't watched all of them this season. I'll be honest.

[Host]

In general, do you watch normally?

[Tamara Judge]

I do, but it's like, it's almost weird because I have to watch so many housewife shows for the podcast that I'm like, I don't want to watch this one.

[Natalie]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Tamara Judge]

And it gives me anxiety watching it.

[Host]

I bet. Still, do you get anxiety watching just your own or just other ones too?

[Tamara Judge]

The other ones I'm fine with. But watching my own, it's just like, what did I do now?

[Natalie]

Has it always been like that?

[Tamara Judge]

I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. I watch it first I'm like, like this and then I have to watch it again to like really get what happen. What happened. Absolutely.

[Host]

That is interesting. I don't know where I want to start.

[Tamara Judge]

You're crazy.

[Natalie]

Tamara Judge, welcome to the V. Yeah.

[Host]

Tamara, welcome.

[Tamara Judge]

Thank you.

[Host]

So excited to have you.

[Tamara Judge]

I feel like I'm like the last one to be on your show from my cast.

[Host]

I really, honestly, it's just, it's an honor having you. I'm really excited. It's. We're big fans.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, I met you are last year at Crystal's party.

[Host]

You are an iconic housewife.

[Tamara Judge]

Thank you.

[Host]

And you're like an enigma.

[Tamara Judge]

Why do you say that?

[Host]

Because you're so good at your job. But you also seem like. I feel like you're a rare housewife, at least for, I don't know, me and Natalie. Where. And then Natalie to. Met you at Crystals. Right? So. And I hadn't met you in person. And so I was like, how's it going, camera?

[Tamara Judge]

Because I think there's some people she, like, total asshole.

[Host]

She loves you.

[Natalie]

Yeah, loved. I was like, honestly, I love her.

[Tamara Judge]

Like. And.

[Host]

And there's. I think there's just people in reality TV who, you know, I think some people find to be harder to read or figure out. I think some people you're just kind of like, you know, I think there's a lot of discussions about, like, Jax, Taylor and Bravo these days. And there's just, you know, if you've met him and I had a long time ago, you're just like, yeah. I mean, he's just kind of. That's just who he is on and off the camera.

[Tamara Judge]

There's no kind of good tv.

[Host]

It's great. You know, it is great T times. And with. With you, there's like this level of like, is she just a really.

[Tamara Judge]

Is.

[Host]

She's so good at what she does sometimes. And then obviously you do things that, like, when we talk about the show, you know, as much as, like, we might, like, root for you, you know, you're like, can't believe she did that. You know, like, that seems.

[Tamara Judge]

But what would the show be without me?

[Natalie]

Exactly. Know exactly.

[Tamara Judge]

I mean, so far, like, on episode, every scene is about me.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

And scenes I'm not even in. Are you talked about.

[Natalie]

I want to start before Pre Housewives. Like, who was Tamara before any of the Housewives?

[Host]

Do we have old pics of Tamara?

[Tamara Judge]

I can give you some. Okay, I'll send you some.

[Natalie]

Like, the ones that Jen use.

[Tamara Judge]

How far. Yeah, yeah. How far back do we. Are you talking, like, what.

[Natalie]

As far as you want to go.

[Tamara Judge]

Oh, my God. So.

[Host]

So you've been on for 15. Over 15 years.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Host]

How long has OC been on the air?

[Tamara Judge]

So it's been on 19 years. I would have been. This would have been my 17th season, but they paused me for two years.

[Host]

What did you do again?

[Tamara Judge]

Cried.

[Natalie]

Cried?

[Tamara Judge]

No, it was really a weird time because Covid hit and I got fired, and I wasn't expecting it, and then. Well, I shouldn't say I wasn't expecting it. I'm expecting it every year. Every. I never think that I'm gonna come back the next year. I never put that in my head. I'm just like, it happens. It happens. So I got the call that I wasn't coming back. And then I was just kind of, like, devastated. As time went on, it got worse because I've had this job for 12 years at this point, and I knew my schedule and, you know, I filmed and I did press, and then I did this. Then we started all over again.

[Natalie]

And now I'm.

[Tamara Judge]

All of a sudden, I'm like, who. Who am I? And I remember Sophia saying to me, mom, I've only known you as a housewife because she was like two or one when I started. Like, that's the only job I've known you to do. So. So it was hard. So it took me a while. And then I got Ultimate Girls Trip, and then I got the podcast. And then when I got the podcast with Teddy, kind of filled that spot of Housewives. Cause that's all we talked about is housewives. So kind of like filled it, and I just like, okay, whatever. And then I got the call come back to come back.

[Natalie]

Okay, so what were you doing before Housewives?

[Tamara Judge]

So I was, you know, I. I mean, I can take it really far back. So I was a really young mom. So I got pregnant in my last three months of high school. So I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't know if I was going to keep them. I didn't know, like, what was your family's reaction? Well, I didn't tell my mom because I knew what my mom would say. But I went home from lunch, from school, and my boyfriend Ryan's dad was there with my mom. And I walk in and my mom looks at me, cries, and says, I'm too young to be a grandmother. And I went, ah, fuck. He told her. I just. I'm like, really? Like. So, yeah. So then, you know, I just like, okay, now she's getting married. And now, like, you know, in high school, I'm already married. Nobody knows, and I'm pregnant.

[Host]

You got married?

[Tamara Judge]

Yes.

[Host]

Secretly.

[Tamara Judge]

Yes.

[Natalie]

Was that a you decision or was that a your parents?

[Tamara Judge]

Parents, they had rental houses. They put me up of a house. Like, you know, everything was great. You're going to have this kid. And, you know, my mom was a young mom. My mom had me at 17, so. Or 16, I can't remember.

[Host]

So your mom was 30.

[Tamara Judge]

She actually in her 30s. Early 30s. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So from there, like, you know, I married Ryan's dad. That didn't last long. And then I was single for quite a while. And then I married Sophia, who's over there, her dad. And ryan was probably 9 or 10.

[Natalie]

So you were a single mom?

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

For how long?

[Tamara Judge]

A long time. Wow. Long time. I mean, I dated. I had, I dated. I had boyfriends and stuff.

[Host]

Did you go to college?

[Tamara Judge]

No. Nope.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tamara Judge]

Didn't go to college. So then I met Simon and I felt like he was the safe way to go. He was very disciplined. And I thought, like, you know, I'm working six days a week at a trash company and you know, I'm barely making ends meet.

[Host]

What would you. What were you doing at a trash company?

[Tamara Judge]

I was a receptionist.

[Host]

First impressions.

[Tamara Judge]

But I also dated the owner.

[Sophia]

There you go.

[Natalie]

I like it.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Host]

How did you. Did you. Would you date him or get the job? Did you meet him at the job?

[Tamara Judge]

At the job? Yeah.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, there was like four owners or something. Like a. It was a family owned business.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tamara Judge]

So. So yeah, so I did that and then got married and started having kids and then I got my real estate license. So I started dabbling in real estate. Then my girlfriend's like, you should try out for this housewife show. I'm like, hell no. Like, I'm not exciting. Like, I'm a stay at home mom, basically. I once in a while do real estate and they came after me and pursued me because we feel. I filled out an application being very sarcastic. They're like, sex. I'm like, often, but you know what I mean? Like all these stupid, like, like a 12 year old boy, maybe 14, sex.

[Natalie]

Every day, all the time.

[Tamara Judge]

And then I would like, it's kind.

[Host]

Of like you've cheated. Maybe that was wild.

[Tamara Judge]

Maybe, Maybe.

[Host]

Let's not focus on.

[Tamara Judge]

It's not answering the question. Wait, so what got cast on the show?

[Natalie]

What was the hardest part of being a single mom at that age?

[Tamara Judge]

Oh, just being a single mom at that age. Like all my friends went to college and all my friends were doing other things and I was working all the time and bouncing from my parents house to my own apartment and not having my utilities turned on at certain times because I didn't have enough money. And I mean, it was a struggle. Yeah, it was a really, really big struggle.

[Natalie]

So how did you meet Simon?

[Tamara Judge]

I met him at a bar. I stole his parking space.

[Natalie]

Oh, he had his own parking space at the.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, he was there. Like, you know, people like, back up.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

Go in backwards. Well, I just like, you swerved right in. I just swerved right in. Swerved right in. So Tamara, I'm like, what?

[Natalie]

She doesn't.

[Tamara Judge]

She. Maybe. Is there a problem? Maybe, Maybe.

[Natalie]

Okay, so then you came on Season three, I did for Housewives of Orange County. And did you have, like. Did you watch the first two seasons? Did you have any. You did?

[Tamara Judge]

I did. I didn't really know the girls, but, you know, it was in my own backyard. It was five minutes. Cota was five minutes from my house, and, like, all the restaurants that I go to were on it. So I thought it was really cool. And it was, like a different type of show than it is now, obviously. It was just like, people just hanging out. And half the time, the cast didn't even film together. It was like they would go on trips with different people, like friends that weren't even cast members. Like, it was so different.

[Host]

It was more like individual lives.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, it was individual lives once in a while. Every once in a while they would come together. And I just remember, like, the producer coming to my house and they're like, do you know Gina? I go, yeah, I. I know. I know of her. I run circles around her in real estate, which I did. Not at all. At all. And they're like, oh, really? I'm like, yeah, like that. And so, I mean, that's how I was just a smart ass and that's how I got on.

[Host]

Okay, and.

[Tamara Judge]

And nothing's changed.

[Host]

That's what I was about to ask you. It kind of feels like maybe that's kind of your stick.

[Tamara Judge]

That's just who I am. Like, I'm always going for the joke. I'm always going. I mean, not always, but in a situation like that. Yeah, that's what I do.

[Host]

Okay.

[Natalie]

Do you feel like when you step on to your. You start filming, first day of filming, do you feel like there's a sense of you that kind of is like, all right, time to clock in. Like, time to.

[Tamara Judge]

I think all of us feel that way, and I think anybody that says that they've feel that way is lying. And it's not like, oh, I'm acting to be on the show. I mean, we know what the show's about. We know what it's about. So I do. I think, like, attitudes are heightened. Yeah, for sure.

[Natalie]

And you save. I, you know, kind of defended you in our episode Tuesday about what happened in. In Orange county, about the, you know, Katie trying to blame you for everything she's done.

[Tamara Judge]

Girl, I get blamed for everything. Even if I'm not involved, I get blamed for everything.

[Host]

What about when you are involved?

[Tamara Judge]

Well, I'll take ownership for anything that I'm involved in or anything I do. But in a situation like this, especially with housewives, you don't blame the messenger. That's what we're all. We're all messengers on this show. Like, I'm not the one that recorded. You're the one that recorded. And now it's my problem because I brought it out. Well, what if I didn't bring it out? What are we going to talk about?

[Natalie]

Exactly. That's what I was about to say. I think, like, what Real Housewives is. Is, like, those moments and, like, I think you're so good at it is, like, saving them for the right time to make the show as good as it can possibly be.

[Host]

Is that what kind of being a housewife means in the sense that, like, if you want to be asked to do this and if you want to say yes, this opportunity, then you don't get to pick and choose what rumors are platforms, so to speak, where it's just, like, if you want that type of privacy, don't.

[Tamara Judge]

Don't go on the show. Don't go on the show.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

I mean, if my husband is pulled over and arrested for not having a driver's license because he's not paying child support and it's public, I expect somebody on the show to bring it up. Right. Or if my husband is on ESPN because there's an FBI investigation, I expect somebody to bring it up.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

Right.

[Natalie]

Yeah. And it's kind of.

[Tamara Judge]

I get a dui, somebody's going to bring it up.

[Natalie]

And is there any, like, lines that are drawn, boundaries you don't cross? That's kind of.

[Tamara Judge]

I think kids. Kids are just off limits. Like, you just don't. Yeah, it never sits well.

[Natalie]

You've been pretty open about what's your relationship with your kids? What. What happened?

[Tamara Judge]

Well, I don't like to get into it too much just because she doesn't like to be talked about in a public manner. Yeah. But when we went through our divorce, there was a lot of manipulation going on on one side. There was never a bad relationship between me and my daughter, and she chose to go live with her dad. Now, what people don't know is my other two kids chose to live with me eventually and never. And they don't have a relationship with their dad.

[Host]

One of them's here.

[Tamara Judge]

One of them's here. Yeah. She hasn't had a relationship with them in five years. Wow.

[Host]

And what is. I mean, like, what.

[Tamara Judge]

It's a terrible situation and to, like, you know, I feel bad for him. Just like, I feel bad for myself in this sense. Like, it's not a situation that you. Anybody wants to be in. But it's a very. It happens a lot.

[Host]

100%. So. So, like. And we are watching it from like our. Like Natalie and I are, you know, we're new parents. You know, obviously we're lucky enough to make our relationship work and we work very hard on that. And I think there's a lot of people who watch a show like this and they'll see the drama unfold with you and your family and your kids. And I think there's just a level of like, how could you let this happen? Like, why wouldn't you?

[Tamara Judge]

There's a lot of shit.

[Host]

Whatever you could to like I did be. Have some kind of relationship with your kids. You know, it's just like I would do. I would never let.

[Tamara Judge]

Don't marry a narcissist, okay? Don't marry a narcissist. That's all I can say, that's my advice to people, is that parental alienation is a thing and is a big thing. When. When people get divorced, sometimes there is one parent that just. They hate you more than they love your kids. They hate you more than they love their kids. So basically they trash talk the other parent and say horrible things, horrible things that aren't even true. And that kid will take his side now. And that's kind of what happened. And he tried to do that with all the kids. And the other two kids went, I ain't putting up with this anymore.

[Host]

Not doing this. Is there a relationship between the kids? Between the kids?

[Tamara Judge]

Yes. Yes. So Sophie is with me today because she's gonna go see her sister in la. And mind you, I saw her, I saw Sydney. Like she came to the house not too long ago and we hugged and we talked. And it's not like she hates me. It's not that situation. We're just not super close.

[Host]

Okay.

[Natalie]

When did you realize that Simon was a narcissist?

[Tamara Judge]

When I met him. I don't know.

[Natalie]

He was always bad.

[Tamara Judge]

He was. It was always a struggle. Really. It was always a struggle.

[Host]

I mean. Cause like nowadays everyone's just kind of calling everyone a N. Narcissist.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Host]

And it almost like has lost its meaning. But like, what do you mean? Could you like peel back?

[Tamara Judge]

I think. I think you could, you know, watch the show and see, like, it was a lot of controlling, a lot of talking down, a lot of shaming, just things like that, that it was just horrible to be around. Like, my self esteem was so low. You know, there's like scenes on the show, like, where he's like, you're gonna dress that. You're dressed like that. You're a mom. Like, what are you thinking? Like, all I had was skirt on. Like, it was. It's like, just. And it got really bad after we separated. And that's when he worked overtime with the kids and tried so hard. Now me and Spencer are super close. We talk every single day. He's out of the house. He went to college. He's got his first big boy job. He's about 45 minutes away. Me and Sophia went to dinner with them last night. Sophia still lives at home. We're super close. Obviously, you see her on the show, and it's a horrible situation that I have gone through. And that's one of the reasons why I chose to go through therapy. Because I've never dealt with it like, you know, I. I grew up in that time where, you know, sweep it under the rug, you know, it's no big deal. Life moves on. Yeah. So having that pain inside of me sucks. It, like, sucks. And what I do anything to have her back in my life. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I take what I can get, you know, and I cherish those moments that I do have with her.

[Natalie]

I think, unfortunately, a lot of women have been in that position before. How did you get the confidence to leave?

[Tamara Judge]

It wasn't because I was financially set because of the show. Because I had just started the show and I just couldn't take it anymore. I think I was just pushed to my. My end. I was experiencing things I've never experienced before. Like I'm getting paid to go to lunch with friends from the, you know, TV show and things like that. And I just. It just got so bad the last season that we were. We filmed together. We went into it knowing that we were going to get divorced. Wow. And we weren't going to make it public. And then it was to the very end where I asked for the divorce in the limousine. Yeah. Because he was berating me the entire, like, at the house, getting ready before the cameras were there. What I can do, what I can't do, what I can say, what I can't say. And then he was said something in the car to me about not spending time with the kids. Well, it's because I'm filming a show at the moment and it doesn't take up that much of my time. But he just was always like those digs constantly. And I just, I can't do this anymore.

[Host]

How did he feel about you making that public? The way.

[Tamara Judge]

Not great.

[Host]

He make you pay for it or try to make you pay for it?

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, he made me pay for it. And basically we stuck it out not much longer. And then I went and got an apartment. When I got an apartment, I borrowed a thousand dollars from my mom. I didn't even have any money. I started selling my clothes on ebay to make rent. And it was like a two bedroom apartment with three kids on the third floor. No elevator.

[Host]

Is this after you're a housewife, though?

[Tamara Judge]

This was after I was a housewife. So this was like after season three? No, no, no. I came in on three. This is my second or third season in, I think. I can't remember how many seasons he was on. I don't know if he was on two or three. But the last season he was on with me. That's when I moved out. And I've never gotten a cent from him. I've never. Nothing. No, really? Nothing. Wow.

[Natalie]

So was it a messy divorce or was it kind of just.

[Tamara Judge]

It was dirty. It was dirty. He had somebody in the press that he was talking to from the National Enquirer.

[Natalie]

Oh, my God.

[Tamara Judge]

And they were constantly putting stories out. They labeled me as monster mom and would have them show up at, you know, just like when we went to court and stuff. It was.

[Natalie]

Do you think that's why the Katie stuff triggers you so bad?

[Tamara Judge]

What part of Katie triggers the, like talking to the.

[Natalie]

The outlets.

[Tamara Judge]

And I think at the time, like, you'll see as we go on, I do soften up with her. So here's the thing. Emily and her went back and forth. Emily talked about her kids, she talked about her. You know, they went back and forth. Then the thing with Shannon. Shannon, she recorded Shannon. Shannon's recorded so many people. She's recorded so many people. So to me that's a wash.

[Host]

Okay, okay.

[Tamara Judge]

She contacts a blogger that was going after me, spreading lies, saying I ran Reality blurb. If anybody. What? If anybody follows you? Yeah, if anybody follows reality blurb. They're so mean to me. They're so mean. And they just constantly write the nastiest shit about me. And I'm like, what?

[Host]

I wonder if it is an insider. I don't know. I think, you know, they should. They should put a stop to Anonymous.

[Natalie]

I mean, the fact that they cite them in the shows is.

[Tamara Judge]

I think it needs to stop. Yeah. I think what's happening now is the bloggers are trying to make bigger deals out of things or to out people that they've talked to them. And then what happens then is like, you know, it becomes part of the show and then it gets dirty and messy. And I think at this point, like, it needs to stop. It really needs to stop.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

They at least should be.

[Host]

Or if nothing else, it shouldn't be anonymous. It shouldn't. Like.

[Tamara Judge]

What do you mean anonymous? What parts anonymous?

[Host]

Well, just like these. All these accounts, like, a lot of them are like, anonymous accounts, at least.

[Tamara Judge]

That are talking about housewives.

[Host]

Yeah. Like reality. Like the blogger accounts, you know, some of them. People know who they are.

[Tamara Judge]

Oh, you mean who runs them? Yeah, who runs them? Like queens. Bravo. Which they're very nice, but. But, like, reality blurbs.

[Host]

There's nothing you to me, you can. They can say whatever they want. Not, like, not show their face. No accountability. They can just run their mouth and say some of the nastiest things, or they can just put out rumors.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, but isn't that what social media is all about? Like, that's what people. That's what people don't show their face. Like, the people that are the meanest to me will be like a picture of a dog. And then it'll be like, I love. I love Jesus in my life. And I'm like, mom of three girls.

[Host]

Like, perfect, only sending love.

[Tamara Judge]

Y. Yes. That's who it is.

[Natalie]

And it's like, is there a storyline that about me still hurts you?

[Tamara Judge]

Storyline that really hurts me.

[Natalie]

Like, looking back, anything that you're still, like, that was, like, uncalled for.

[Tamara Judge]

I mean, there's a lot of them that are uncalled for. Here's the thing with me. I move forward. Yeah. I don't dwell on the past. Like, and if it's a lie about me, like when Vicky and Gretchen and all them brought out that lie about my husband being gay and all this stuff, like, like, at the moment, that hurt me because talk about me like you want to make up rumors about my husband. Like, that pisses me off and I want to protect him. And he just said to me, he's like, babe, let it go. Who cares? Like, they're saying I'm gay. They're not saying, like, I'm a pedophile or something. Like, right. This is ridiculous. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, I know, but it's annoying. It's annoying when lies. I. I can't stand for just blatant lies. When people just go on there and.

[Natalie]

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[Tamara Judge]

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[Host]

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[Natalie]

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[Host]

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[Tamara Judge]

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[Natalie]

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[Tamara Judge]

I know he filmed. I'm like, where? Hello? Where's Eddie? I know we filmed a lot, so I don't know.

[Host]

How'd you meet Eddie?

[Tamara Judge]

We met through a mutual friend and it was funny because we were filming and it was when me. It was my last season with Simon and I was looking for a house to move out of. We were going to short sell our house. I was going to move out. I am so shocked that they have never played a flashback of this ever so bad situation with me and Simon. So my friend Marcos, who was in our wedding, he's like, I have a buddy that actually lives in your gated community and he's a single guy. Guy. And he bought this house as investment and now the market took a and he just wants to rent it out. And I go, okay. He's all, he'll let you film in his house. So we go in. There's cameras. Actually the house I live in right now. Oh, wow. So Eddie opens the door and I literally saw like fireworks, butterfly. All those things that you hear about in movies. He was shirtless in my head. He had a shirt on. I mean, all these things. Yeah.

[Natalie]

Yeah. When was.

[Tamara Judge]

I was just like this. I was like, like retard. And. And yeah. And then Marcos is like, there's a camera behind you. And I'm like, oh, hi. And then I never. I don't think I saw him again. He just opened the door, let us in. And then that was it. I am shocked now they're going to show it now. Shocked. They've never shown that. So he sent me a. He didn't know anything about me. He thought that. He thought Desperate Housewives. Somebody from Desperate Housewives. He thought he was getting Eva Longoria or something. Right. He got me. You got Tamara, Barney. And so he sent Me a message on. I don't. I think it was maybe Facebook or MySpace or something like that.

[Host]

Will you be my top friend?

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. And he's like. He's like, hey, it was really great meeting you, you know, and. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, so I sent Marcos a message ago. Your friend Eddie, he's, like, sending me messages, like, asking me out on a date. Does he not know? Like, he's like, he knows nothing about you. So, yeah. So then I saw him again. I kept, like, running into him. And so we went to a fitness party, like, over the holidays in December, and he was at the same party at the same table at Mastro's, And I'm like, okay, this is weird. And then after I left Simon, I'm like, marcus, I'm like, hey, call him. Let's go. Let's go. Game on. And then I never, ever dated anybody else.

[Host]

How long you guys been together now?

[Tamara Judge]

15 years.

[Host]

What's the secret to your relationship?

[Tamara Judge]

I think, you know what he's. You know, we. We met each other definitely at a different, like, older in life. So, I mean, there's a lot of stress raising kids and that kind of stuff. So I feel like we never had that kind of stress. And you guys probably know, like. Yeah, and he's just, like, my best friend, and we have so much fun together, and we do a lot of things together, and, you know, we'll argue, but we don't fight a lot. We are just not that type that fight. And when we do, we'll probably. I always say we have, like, one or two big fights.

[Host]

What does he make of you being a housewife and, like, some. All the drama that you are a part of?

[Tamara Judge]

Well, Eddie is, like, such, like, a zen guy. Like, he doesn't let anything really get to him. And he struggled at the very beginning because it wasn't his thing. Yeah, he doesn't want to be famous. He doesn't care about camera time. You don't see him doing confessionals. He didn't.

[Natalie]

He's not putting a knee brace on to.

[Tamara Judge]

No, he's not. Like, putting on his jean jacket with paint splats on it. Like, no, he doesn't. He's like, this is your thing, babe. You do your thing. Like, you tell me where you want me, and I'll go to a party, and I'm cool with that. But he. Like, that whole scene last year at dinner with Ryan and Jen and all that, like, it took a lot for him to even go there because he can't stand the guy. Guy. He's like, the guy's a douche.

[Host]

He seems like a criminal. He looks like a criminal.

[Tamara Judge]

You said it, not me.

[Natalie]

Allegedly.

[Tamara Judge]

Allegedly.

[Host]

Allegedly.

[Tamara Judge]

So he didn't.

[Host]

Well, he doesn't allegedly look like one.

[Natalie]

Yeah, I guess you can. You can confidently say is that he looks.

[Tamara Judge]

He.

[Natalie]

Like, he could be.

[Host]

He's coated.

[Natalie]

I think the. The wearing the hoodies with suit jackets is criminal.

[Host]

The veneers are criminal. That's a crime.

[Tamara Judge]

That is a crime. He should be arrested. Oh, I'm dying right now. Yeah, so he didn't, like. He. We had a talk before going in, and he's like, listen, you know, this guy's been going after me on social media, like, and Eddie's done nothing to him at this point.

[Host]

Do you think that's him, like, trying to create his. Like, create his own storyline and drama to, like, just be a part of the show?

[Tamara Judge]

I think so. And I think it also has a little bit to do with. I called him out, so I called him out of things that he's done. So. And people want to go after Eddie, like, most people love. Everybody loves Eddie. But, like, if there's, like, Gretchen or somebody that doesn't like me on the cast, they're like, oh, I'm gonna go after Eddie because she went after my boyfriend. I'm like, I'm not going after anybody. I'm just, like, exposing the obvious.

[Host]

Gretchen came on a TV show and talked about her man's penis.

[Tamara Judge]

Oh, that's very Christian, like, of her. Is that before or after she. I'm just saying, started doing her Bible scriptures?

[Host]

She's kind of going after Slade.

[Tamara Judge]

I know, right? I mean, I could live. I could have lived without hearing about Slade's penis. As could I, honestly.

[Natalie]

Can you explain to our audience your history with Gretchen and why, like, your reaction to her returning?

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, I mean, she came in, I think. I don't know, season five somewhere. I think I had already been on one season. She came on and, you know, we didn't always, like, not hit it off. I just thought it was, like, weird. Like, she's like, this young, cute girl, and she's got this old boyfriend. And, you know, I thought, oh, God. That's when I'm like, hold on to your daddy's girls. Here comes Gretchen. Right?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. I don't. Oh, that's right.

[Natalie]

But you don't look old.

[Tamara Judge]

You don't look old. But this was like, you guys, what? You're not that far apart. No, this was, like, 30 something. Years. It's like, crazy. He was, like, all gray with a gray beard. It was like Santa Claus.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

Interesting. Yeah, probably. And so I. We just kind of poked. We all kind of. Just kind of poke fun of her. And she was just so easy to poke fun of because she's not the brightest girl in the world and just. Just does.

[Host]

Are you calling her stupid?

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. And she's like. Like always so giggly and all. I know. She just.

[Natalie]

She just pissed you off.

[Tamara Judge]

She just got into my skin. And then me and Gina. It was me and Gina and Vicki walk into. This is when she started filming. We walked into a bar. Oh, the St. Regis. I think it was this. And she's sitting on this guy's lap, and her. There's no engagement ring on. And we talk about this at the reunion years ago, and we're like, hey, what's. Oh, he's just a friend. Like. And all of a sudden, there's, like, this distance. Yeah. Where's your engagement ring? Oh, it's too big. It's in my purse. I'm like, okay. So there's, like, started to be, like, all these inconsistencies in her stories and lies and all this stuff. And, you know, it's like. And then the. The boyfriend that she was. She had this older. Her boyfriend, I guess she was engaged to. And then it came out that she actually had a young boyfriend as well. Oh. So then that all got brought up. And then. So she got mad because I exposed that. But again, if you're a game. I'm the messenger, man. I'm the messenger. So that's where. And then I think a year or two later, she starts dating Slade. And we're like, okay. Well, we just. Everybody's lost respect for you now.

[Natalie]

Yeah. And then because we're her and Joe friends.

[Tamara Judge]

They were.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. She. Joe told me recently they used to double date. Wow. So Gretchen and somebody else. I don't know who the guy was. And then next thing she knew is that he was seeing Gretchen.

[Host]

Is there a lot of overlapping in the OC in terms of.

[Tamara Judge]

Like, not in my world.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tamara Judge]

No. Okay. I don't want somebody's sloppy seconds. So.

[Natalie]

So what was your reaction to her coming back this season? Did they give you a heads up?

[Tamara Judge]

They did.

[Natalie]

They did.

[Tamara Judge]

They actually. Before I signed my contract, Alex took me to dinner after. We had a kick.

[Host]

Then, you know, it's serious.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Host]

Dinner.

[Tamara Judge]

And me and Alex are really close, so I didn't think anything. I didn't think he had anything to tell Me, I thought he was just gonna be like, you know, let's just go to dinner. Like, that wouldn't be uncommon. He's like, hey, I just have to tell you something. I'm like, what? He's like, like, they're bringing Gretchen back. And I went, okay. And I said, listen, whatever you guys think is good for the show. Do I like her? No. She has spent the last 12 years attacking me. Like, when she left the show, when she was fired from the show, I, like, didn't look back. I just went forward. I didn't think about her. She wasn't in my mind, like, move forward. But it. She could not stop. Like, when I got fired, she had a party. Like, she did press about me constantly. Anytime she was on a podcast or on a red carpet, she talked about.

[Host]

Me throwing a party for you. Getting fired is kind of a flex for you, right?

[Tamara Judge]

Just put so much time and energy on me and just calls every housewife, new housewife to let them know that I'm evil.

[Host]

Who are you close with in the cast?

[Tamara Judge]

Emily, Gina, Heather. I was with Shannon for 10 years until last year, so. Last year. And then, I mean, I'm not close with Jen by any means. And Gretchen, I could. I'd rather deep throat a cactus than be her friend.

[Natalie]

Slide down a cheese grater naked.

[Tamara Judge]

Right. Sorry, Sophia. Wow.

[Host]

Where do things stand with you and Shannon?

[Tamara Judge]

You know what? You'll see me try really hard to move on with Shannon, and she's just. She's hold. This woman can hold a grudge like no other, and she's just gonna hold onto it. And the funny thing is, it's like I was nothing but a great friend to her. A great friend. Well, so what happened was what a lot of people don't know is off season between her dui, you know, that season I was shooting Traitors. So the day that I was going to the airport, I get the phone call from her that she had been arrested about the DUI and all that stuff, and it had happened two days prior, and I was on the phone with her the day before, and she never said a word about it. We were on a business call, and she was very down, and I called her back, I said, are you okay? And she's like, yeah, I'm fine. And I don't think she thought it was going to come out. And then I'm on the podcast, and I get a text message from Heather Debrow, and she's like, Sends me the article that Shannon was arrested. I'm like, holy Shit. And then Shannon texted me and said, can you call me? And I said, I'm on the pod. I'll call you afterwards. So I called her and I just said, I. I'm so sorry. We were crying on the phone. I said, this has got to be devastating. I said, but the good thing is, Shannon is, as your friend, you have a problem, and this is a wake up call. Nobody was hurt at this time. I didn't know that she was injured. Like, she had broken her arm and sliced her face open and hurt her lay. I had no idea. I thought she just hit a house and took off. And so I had that conversation with her, and she took it well, I thought. And then I flew to Scotland, and then I didn't have a phone for however long I was gone. And when I got back, I had heard from a mutual friend. Shannon's living with you. How dare her say. How dare Tamara say that I'm an alcoholic. I'm not the alcoholic. Gina's an alcoholic. Taylor Armstrong's alcoholic. And she named off all these people and started doing the blame game. And I'm like, that's weird, because she was really, like, sweet about it. Then, you know, I didn't say anything to her. And we went to BravoCon and she was on the red carpet saying how, you know, I've been there for her and all these things. And then I get a phone call from another person, and he's like, shannon's saying horrible shit about you. You horrible. I'm like, what? Why? Just like, who the hell does Tamara think she is? She thinks she's like, the star of this show. And I'm so sick of our. And I'm like, all I've been is there for her. So then I'm like, you know what? Game on. I'm done with this. She was exhausting to be friends with. It was that friend. Like, she would call you and call you and call you. And I'd be like, I'm on the podcast or I'm at dinner. You need to call me immediately. And I'd be like. I would walk out of dinners like, my kids. My husband would be like, mom, please don't take her call, please.

[Natalie]

And what would she say on the phone?

[Tamara Judge]

Would it be like, oh, and it was always something.

[Host]

She's kind of venting.

[Tamara Judge]

She's just. She's. She's just exhausting. I mean, it. It'd be calls where she was drinking, and it'd be like, oh, my God, I can't find my phone. I think The Uber driver is kidnapping me. I'm like, you're on your phone. Like, just stuff like that. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. David's wife signed my support check. I said, I don't give a shit if Michael Jackson signed your support check. You're getting one. I never got that. You know, just stupid things. Like, really stupid things. So I'm like, oh, my God. Or it was about John. Or it's just always. Her life was always in shambles. Always, Always.

[Natalie]

Was there any part of you that had, like, a soft spot? Like, when the Alexis of it all came into it last year, was there any part of you that.

[Tamara Judge]

Oh, absolutely.

[Natalie]

This is too much.

[Tamara Judge]

Absolutely. So when Alexis was. And that. That's kind of like when things got really bad, because people are like, oh, my God, she's ditching Shannon for Alexis. That's not the case at all whatsoever. So Alexis was in negotiations before she even started dating John. Her and John met at the Quiet Woman Out.

[Host]

Did John figure it out? Because he seems like a housewife chaser.

[Tamara Judge]

See, I don't see John like that. I think what people don't understand is John was a single dad that raised all his kids by himself. John is, like, a really nice guy.

[Host]

You like John?

[Tamara Judge]

I like John. I do. And Shannon has a mo of. When she's done with somebody, she wants to destroy their image, and she tries to do that to me. And Tara's horrible. I had to walk an eggshell. I'm like, horrible. Walk on, angel. What the hell did I do to you? Like, I'm the easiest friend. I don't ask for anything. I hardly rely on friends for, like, emotional support. I usually go to my husband. Like, why? So she got cast on the show. She started dating John. I was defending. Because there was rumors and I was defending Alexis. I'm like, she's not dating him. All they did was take a picture together. Everybody needs to. To chill the hell out. And then Alexis calls me and goes, there's something I gotta tell you. And I'm like, what? She goes, I am kind of dating John now. I go, oh, my God. What? She's like, we didn't expect it. Like, we just ran into each other. I met him. I didn't know him prior to that. Then we exchanged phone numbers. Then we just started talking and.

[Host]

Are they still together?

[Tamara Judge]

They're getting married in October.

[Host]

Are you going to the wedding?

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. Yeah. They are so in love and so happy. He's a totally different guy. You know, he was single for a long time. He Never really remarried after his first wife. He raised the kids, never got remarried, and now it's like he's been with Alexis, like, two years, and they're getting married.

[Host]

And do you feel like. Do you feel like Shannon, from your point of view, is starting to get her life in order?

[Tamara Judge]

I don't know. I mean, I hope so. I don't spend much time with Shannon, so I can't honestly answer that question.

[Host]

Last season, we had a ton of empathy for Shannon, and I remember everybody did. Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

She's the only person I know that can be accused of drinking too much for 10 years, drive her car into a house, try to take off and have a physical altercation with her boyfriend and get praised.

[Host]

Well, I don't know if we, like, were praising her. It was this more like. I think we just kind of, like, felt like this was like, the person who was really down bad and still drinking. Well, I. You know, I haven't hung out with Shannon, so I.

[Tamara Judge]

But even back then, still drinking.

[Natalie]

Okay, I can see how that can be frustrating, I think. Yeah. I think, like, from our point of view, it was definitely just like, oh, this seems like someone who, you know, is kind of getting the pile on when, like, it seems like they really just needs friends to, like, just hold her accountable. I tried be friends.

[Tamara Judge]

I tried.

[Host]

But, I mean, I can see from your point of view, I. When it comes to, like, I want to be there for my friends and family, but I have a line. And if, like, if you don't want to help yourself, and if that's obvious, like, I'm not going to waste my energy even feeling sorry for you if. If you've made it clear that you're not interested in helping yourself, and if that's how you felt about Shannon, well.

[Tamara Judge]

She'S also had a history of not being a great friend to me. Like, when I got fired, she cut me off, ghosted me. Oh, wow. And so when I got back on the show, she quickly became my friend again.

[Host]

How did that whole process, you get back on the show go down, and did you have any hard feelings or resentment and that stopped you from potentially coming back?

[Tamara Judge]

No. But I will tell you this part. You ever had, like, that somebody you're dating and you're so in love with them, and then you get dumped and you're so heartbroken, and you go through the process of mourning it.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

And then they come back into your life, and then you start thinking, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? Like, is this the right thing to Do.

[Host]

Like, I finally got over this.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, I finally got over this. And here you are again. So I kind of felt like. Like that a little bit. But, you know, I jumped right into it. I was nervous. And then they brought Jen in, which I didn't. I wasn't even. I wasn't even friends with her at the time. When they brought her in, I wouldn't say we were enemies, but we hadn't. We weren't. We hadn't been close in a long time. And she texted me and said, hey, can we talk? They're casting for the show. And they reached out to me and I said, yeah, sure. And I didn't know I was going to be back at the time. Time.

[Natalie]

So do they tell you why you're being put on pause? Like, did you know?

[Tamara Judge]

What?

[Natalie]

You didn't.

[Tamara Judge]

No, I just. I was. We were actually camping. It was off season, and my phone wasn't working. I had no reception. So I'd go up to the main road every. Every. I don't know, five hours to check my phone. And there was a bunch of missed calls from production. And I had my production meeting set up for the following Friday when I got home. And so I called. I text Alice, I go, hey, Alex, what's up? Everything okay? And he's like, can you call? I go, well, I don't have great reception, but can you just text it to me? And he's like, I think you should call. And I went. So I drove down the street and I called him, and I was just, like, in shock. He's like, the. The network has decided to go a different way.

[Host]

And they didn't tell you why? Just no creative differences?

[Tamara Judge]

No. And then I just went.

[Host]

So it wasn't necessarily like. They thought it was like a behavioral situation or you just.

[Tamara Judge]

No. So, you know. And I wasn't very happy. I think I hung up on him. And then when I got home, Andy kept calling, and he's like, listen, just call me when you want to talk. So I called and he said, listen. He said, just hold tight. I think you'll be back. And I said, I know. And I said, really? He goes, yeah, I think you'll be back. And so then the next season comes.

[Host]

That makes me feel like. Like someone got you fired.

[Tamara Judge]

Maybe. I don't know.

[Host]

You know, it's. I never know.

[Tamara Judge]

I never know. I don't know who does the firing. I don't. Is it Andy? Is it production? Is it the heads over there? Prob. I don't know. I mean, I have no control.

[Host]

You don't think it was like summoning your cast saying I won't.

[Tamara Judge]

I don't think anybody in the cast has that power. No one in that. I mean there's no way. Because I've wanted people fired and they, they don't give a what I think.

[Host]

Whoever you want.

[Tamara Judge]

And I wouldn't like. I wanted Vicki fired for a while style back in the day, like she was like making up these lies about Eddie and having these parties and bringing Gretchen in and you know, and all this stuff. And I was just like, I, I can't deal with this. I can't, I can't deal with lies. That's the thing. Like you have something on me. Bring it up.

[Host]

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[Natalie]

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[Host]

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[Natalie]

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[Host]

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[Natalie]

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[Host]

Have you ever lied on the show?

[Tamara Judge]

I lied one time to protect Heather.

[Host]

About what?

[Tamara Judge]

I'll never forget. So Shannon had called me. Shannon and Heather were on the outs. That's that whole season where she. Remember Heather kicked her out of the house. You can leave.

[Natalie]

Yep.

[Tamara Judge]

Remember that? Yep. So that was ed season and Shannon and I were pretty close and Shannon had called me the night before and said David just asked me for a divorce in an email or something like that. And I went, oh. She goes, I said, are you bringing this up? If you talk about it, it's going to be a storyline. Is that what you want? And she's like, I don't know what I want. So the next day they had Shannon come to my house and film. But prior to that, I did a scene prior with Heather and we were at a restaurant in Newport filming. And then I said to her, you know what, I just think that you should give Shannon some grace. I think she's going through a lot right now, or I'm paraphrasing, but something like that. And so afterwards we stopped filming and she goes, what's going on? What do you know? Tell me. And I told her and she's like, oh. So somehow after I left, a bunch of girls come continue lunch with Heather. A bunch of her friends and I got talked about and Shannon comes, I run home, change my clothes Sit down. Shannon comes in and she's giving me this horrible story that her marriage is breaking up and she's devastated and all this stuff. And the next thing I know, David's calling her repeatedly and repeatedly. And I said, just pick it up. See what he wants. And I don't know if she, he text her or she called on the phone or what, but he's like, he went off on her. You told Heather? How does Heather know that. That all about this? And I'm like, oh, you should hang up. And so I'm like, oh, my God. Oh my God. I had my phone in, like, next to me, and I remember texting Heather. I go, what the Heather? David just called Shannon and I stuck my phone in the couch. And Shannon goes, did you tell Heather? And I go, no, no, no, me, whatever. I mean, I should have just said yes. I should have said yes, but I was, I just like, panicked. Yeah.

[Host]

So obviously, Jen, you and Jen. I want to get into you and Jen, is. Is your lack of friendship based off of just your comments about Ryan or is there more to it?

[Tamara Judge]

Well, at this point. Okay, so let me take it back pretty far. And it kind of crosses over to this season because everyone's like, there's a fatty picture. Tamara thinks you're obsessed with her, like, all this stuff. Okay, so I'll take it back. So Jen started coming in my gym, like, I don't know, 20, 19 maybe, and she wanted to do a fitness competition. And, you know, she wanted to open up a gym, a yoga studio. And so I, I didn't know her. I didn't know her at all. And some of the people in my studio, they're like, be careful of her. She's obsessed with getting on the Housewives. I go, what do you mean? She's so sweet. She's. She had fosters animals and adopts kids. Like, she's the sweetest girl ever because she, like, her, her like, innocent game is strong. It is strong. So she.

[Host]

Yeah, I mean, because I, I have nothing. But honestly, like, I. Oh, yeah, it's strong.

[Tamara Judge]

I think you'll, you'll start to see some cracks, though.

[Host]

It's more like I, I, when it comes to Jen, she, she seems like a person who's really been through it, right? And she seems like.

[Tamara Judge]

What's she been through?

[Host]

I don't know.

[Tamara Judge]

But like, married 20 something years to a really nice guy.

[Host]

Is he? Yes. Oh. Oh, okay.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, Very religious. Nice. Like, I don't know what's going. I haven't talked to him. Since they split up. But I don't know what's going on now with them.

[Host]

But anyways, her really good dad. Okay, well, her new man, Ryan, he just. He just seems like maybe the biggest loser ever.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, I think she can do better.

[Host]

Yeah. And so, like, I just kind of feel bad that she's with this guy. And so, yeah, she. She seems like she doesn't know better. Like she can't, you know, or isn't an act. I don't know. You know, I've never met her. I just.

[Tamara Judge]

I don't know. I mean, if she's in. In love with him and she thinks that's what's great for her and her kids, then have at it. But. So there was. So she was coming to the gym, and she was a. Totally different than she does now. Totally different. And when I got fired, then she started reaching out to Bronwyn Talley. No, Bronwyn. On our show way back when. So Bronwyn was still on the show and I wasn't. And then prior to that, I find out, like, she was. She was, like, going to my hair girl. She was going to my plastic surgeon. She's like all these. I'm like, this is weird. Then she had, like, my hair extensions put in her head, and I'm like, what the. And she's not the one that told me originally. It was somebody else that told me you were influencing. So I was. Yeah, I go. And I. I even said. And I don't even. I don't know if it got cut or what. I don't know if I should be like, you know, like, wow, that's really cool.

[Host]

Flattered.

[Tamara Judge]

Flattered.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

Or is this weird?

[Host]

Well, it's interesting because, like, the whole Katie of it all and like, you know, on. On the Valley. I don't know if you watch that at all, Janet. Like, there's this, like. You know, some of these shows, like OC super fans have been on for so long, right? And now you start, you know, when. When they cast new characters, it's a valid question to kind of wonder, like, are you casting a fan? Or like, Bozeman on Beverly Hills, she got casted. And just. She seems like this. The badass successful woman who just, like, had nothing. She had, like. She had accomplished everything in her life, and she was like, you know what? I'll be a housewife. Because it seems fun. And I don't really know who these women are, but whatever. She's one of the best and she's awesome. But it does seem like A legit question in Bravo world. Like, are you casting a fan? And if so, like, are you? Like, it's. It's. It's weird.

[Tamara Judge]

And it would be very. I found DMS from her from 2013. Yeah.

[Natalie]

Saying what?

[Tamara Judge]

I'm new to the area. Like, just, like, wanting to, like, be friends, and I'm. I want to have, like, a procedure done. And, like, I'm. I heard maybe you might have had it done. Like, just all this.

[Natalie]

And I'm like, Jen did say on the most recent episode that you, like, used her tummy tuck as inspo.

[Tamara Judge]

No. So what happened was, is I had emergency surgery like, 12 years ago. Cause I have all kinds of intestinal issues, and I had a hernia, a hiatal hernia where my intestines grew through my skin, and part of my intestines were dead. So I was in, like, hospital for a week, and they cut me right down the middle of my stomach. And I lived like that with that scar and everything for a long time. And I think it was maybe three years ago. I was having reconstructive surgery, and I also had another hernia. And so I told her, I go, well, your stomach's my inspo. Because it looks so good. Good. That's it. I was giving her a compliment. It wasn't like, I'm like, oh, okay, well, I want to look just like that. That's not. And. And there's nothing wrong with that. Like, I was just giving her, like, a compliment about it. But she takes everything into victim mode. And Tamara's doing this, and Tamara's doing. Tamara's jealous of me, and I'm like.

[Host]

Do you think Katie's a fan?

[Tamara Judge]

You know, it's weird. I don't know that much about Katie. Like, Gina brought her on.

[Natalie]

Kind of weird that you still don't.

[Tamara Judge]

Really know that much. No. Like, she came in.

[Host]

So you're only really, like, you're only seeing her when you guys are filming.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Host]

Do you trust her?

[Tamara Judge]

Some of her stories don't add up. And there's a. You know, I never know what's going to air. But I did sit down with her mid season with concern. Like, somebody that's going through therapy, maybe, just maybe, you might want to think about it.

[Host]

Where do things sit with your autism revelation and diagnosis?

[Tamara Judge]

Do you think I'm ever going to talk about that ever again? Jesus. It was, like, the most innocent situation where I'm in therapy and we're talking about, like, all kinds of stuff, but I have, like, a lot of, like, sensory Issues. Sophia can vouch for this. She's like, lots of sensory issues. I have an intrusion of thoughts, so I'm explaining all these things to her. And my doctor goes, you know, I wouldn't be shocked if you are somewhere on the spectrum. Sure. And I just went. And, you know, people go, aren't we all kind of a little bit on the spectrum? So I like. Then we get into this deep conversation about my daughter and things that went down. And I had. The office is literally five minutes from my house. And I'm like, I gotta go. I have 15 minutes before I'm on the podcast. And I was crying. And so when I got on the podcast, Teddy's like, what's wrong? And I'm like, I just did this therapy session and she. And I said diagnose when I shouldn't have said diagnose. I should have. I should have said nothing. Like, my therapist is like, you're very impulsive. And I go, oh, yeah, I know. Trust me. I'm very impulsive. I'm trying not to be. Like, if something. If I get information right now, my mind, like, it just starts spinning and I can't. I can't let it go. I'm like, what am I going to do with this information? How am I going to do it? Who am I going to kill? It's really bad.

[Natalie]

I feel like we kind of watch that in, like, real time.

[Host]

Yeah, no, I feel like. Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

So I put that out there. And of course, I already was, like, in the worst place ever with social media. Like, somebody, I think, on my cast hired bots to attack me. And so I was getting all this hate.

[Host]

You think someone. I think that's a real thing, but like, you.

[Tamara Judge]

Oh, absolutely, it's a real thing. They're all fake accounts that say the same thing. And a lot of times, times they say it like different accounts. They're empty accounts and they say the same thing, but maybe worded a little bit different.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

So then, like, everybody went crazy with it and like, oh, she's making up excuses and all this kind of stuff. So I'm like, oh, my God.

[Natalie]

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[Tamara Judge]

Like, did you.

[Natalie]

Are these things that, like, you hear from other people that you're like, I.

[Tamara Judge]

Know a lot about her.

[Natalie]

You know a lot about.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, I know a lot. We have. We have a lot of mutual.

[Host]

So would you say they're not rumors, they're things you know?

[Tamara Judge]

I would call it a rumor right now because I don't have the text messages yet.

[Host]

Okay. You want to jump in here?

[Tamara Judge]

I think it was one of those things where she was accusing me and cheating. So I'm like, well, let's be honest. This isn't your first time.

[Natalie]

Okay. And is that something that maybe we'll see more of?

[Tamara Judge]

I don't think so, because it like. Well, I think it comes up again. Okay. Comes up again. So, yeah. Okay.

[Host]

We're gonna bring your. Your daughter in here just for fun. No, you stay here.

[Tamara Judge]

I am just trying to scoot over. I don't know. Is she. Where's she going? Right here?

[Host]

Yeah, sit right there.

[Tamara Judge]

Oh, at the table?

[Host]

Yeah, over at the table. Yeah, sit at the table.

[Tamara Judge]

Official.

[Host]

Official. While your. Your daughter's getting settled. You obviously have a lot of critics out there and they say a lot of crazy shit. Do you do a good job of like, staying offline and I guess, guess more specifically, what is a criticism you see a lot about you that you think is just the most off base or you don't understand where it Comes from.

[Tamara Judge]

I know where they all come from. Well, there was one today, which I actually laughed. They. Somebody wrote the. It was a podcast that said that they think that me and Jen, we were swingers together. And I just went, no, not my style. No. Interesting. Not my circus. No, I'm not. That's. So. That was kind of like. That's the first time I ever heard anything like that. I think a lot of people want to say, like, oh, her kids hate her. That's not the case at all. There's one daughter out of four that, you know, and it's. It's a problem. It's not like, you know, we got into this huge fight, and I don't want to talk to you anymore, and I hate you. It was nothing like that. It's way deeper than that. And there was therapy sessions, and there was court things, and there's a lot. And do I think that we'll be reunited? Yeah, I do. I think we will. But as of right now, you know, baby, we're taking baby steps. That's it. But I think just that she's evil and she's mean, and, you know, and I see people fight where they're like, what would be talking about on this show?

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

What would the show be about if she doesn't bring up the hard, you know, conversations or call people out? And the thing is, I feel like I'm held to a totally different standard than anybody else, because Emily and Gina, they're. They're stepping up their game big time, and they're bringing out stuff.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. And then it's like, oh, it's. It's Emily and Janet. Do you.

[Host]

Will you bring up something? Do you have any, like, rules, like, internal rules, where it's just like, if you believe it to be true or, you know it's true, it's fair game. But, like, would you. Would you knowingly put out a rumor?

[Tamara Judge]

No.

[Host]

Okay. You. You. That. That you won't do.

[Tamara Judge]

I. I think this is. This is where. Where I'll get pissed off and say things and I'll go, shit. I wish I wouldn't have said that. That whole meet and greet with Jack that I had, last week's episode there. What you didn't see is every scene with her. She was attacking me. Everything. If Katie was getting attacked, she'd be like, what about Tamara? What about Tamara? Like, I was getting. And mind you, this was the lowest part of my life. One week into filming or two weeks into filming, I find out about Teddy. I am a shell of A human being at this point. I am crying. You will see me basically disappear in size this season. I am crying all the time. I can't eat. I'm not sleeping now I gotta go into scenes and be with these girls that just want to go after me. And I don't. I don't have the fight in me. I just don't have it. So. Jen would often make fun of me going to therapy. She would just say some really low things. Like, you saw that part where she's like, you're sick. You're sick. Well, what you didn't see is when I walked out, she was screaming, you're sick. You're sick. Sick. And I just remember crying to the producers and I'm like, teddy's sick. I'm not sick. Yeah, Teddy's sick. And it was just too much. So when we had that sit down scene, I thought she was going to be like, you know, let's make up. And it's not how it came off. And then when she said something about, well, you cheated or something like that, and I'm like. And then I'm like, well, this isn't your first time. I've known that forever. I was never going to bring that up. But if I get pushed, I might say something that I probably shouldn't. And I don't. And I don't like that.

[Natalie]

Is that why you posted while y' all were filming that you, while y' all were in New Orleans, that you were done with the show? Did it become too much with everything?

[Tamara Judge]

It became too much. It was my breaking point. I was barely hanging on by a, like a string. Like, I was showing up. I wasn't sleeping. I wasn't eating. I was just so sad. And, you know, here I'm at the moment, I'm like, I thought I was losing my best friend and I just. It was. I didn't want to film. I just like, I don't want to do this. And I was talking to Alex. I just can't do this anymore. Like, how am I supposed to go in and, you know, do these things with these girls on the show when I have something, you know, really serious going on in my life?

[Natalie]

Yeah, I think whenever you posted that in real time, we talked about it and it was kind of like, you know, to have these, like, stupid fights or people trying to bring up whatever. When you're. You're going through what you're going through, I bet you were like, this is not.

[Tamara Judge]

This is not what I want to do. I think there's more important things in life. Like, when somebody super close to you is that sick? It's hard to take your mind off that and do this type of job. Right. And I was just like, I can't do this anymore. And I just came to. And you'll see it. I think it's coming up the next couple episodes. You'll see what happened, and I can't even blow it. But I just. Yeah, it was. It was really, really hard.

[Host]

Sophia, what's it like to have a mom be an iconic housewife?

[Sophia]

Are you an iconic housewife?

[Host]

She is. She's an iconic housewife.

[Sophia]

I'm, like, so far removed, I think, from all housewives stuff.

[Host]

What do your friends think about it?

[Sophia]

Honestly, like, I don't think they really think about it. Like, I don't like to keep company of people that are so into Housewives because it's just. I don't know what their intentions are. But for me personally, like, I just feel like it's always been this way. So it's hard for me to know anything else.

[Host]

You know, when your mom gets crap online about being a mom and how you know her relationship with her kids, like, how do you handle that and how does that make you feel?

[Sophia]

Well, obviously it makes me upset because they don't know what the hell they're talking about. They know nothing about our life at all. And, I mean, we were just talking about this. I think one of my biggest pet peeves is, is people are just stupid. Like, they don't know. They don't know us. It's all parasocial. It's very parasocial. Like, people think that they know her and they don't at all.

[Natalie]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it's a very creepy thing to have the Internet feel like they know your life better than.

[Host]

Or you have, like, two strangers online having a deep conversation and a debate about you. Yeah, yeah. It's a weird. It's a weird, bizarre, bizarre thing. Do you think with Next Gen in New York being a thing, would that be anything that you would ever consider if they came to LA or Orange county and gave you a call?

[Sophia]

Possibly. Possibly. I mean, we're in talks. Possibly moving to New York, me moving to New York. So.

[Tamara Judge]

Okay, yeah, I'm on a boat. She wants to go to music school. Or you can even talk about it. I don't have to talk for you, but. And that's one of the choices. She's doing general ed right now. Just a community. And then she was going to transfer to a music school. Yeah. In New York. Good plan.

[Host]

Wow, that's exciting.

[Tamara Judge]

And the fact that she has a cute boyfriend that wants to move to New York too.

[Natalie]

Oh, that helps.

[Tamara Judge]

Of course.

[Sophia]

Yeah. But I mean, we've been talking about moving New York before that. I mean, that's just the cherry on top. It'd be awesome, you know, to bring him and have someone there that I know and trust and care about.

[Natalie]

Did you watch Next Gen?

[Tamara Judge]

This?

[Sophia]

No, I haven't.

[Tamara Judge]

She doesn't even watch Housewives. I don't watch tv. I show her her clip. Like she's on it last week and then she's on it a little bit this week and she talks about her. Was it Spotify or what is it you're on? So she's got a. She gets like a. How many do you get? A thousand.

[Sophia]

I had a thousand monthly listeners.

[Host]

There you go.

[Tamara Judge]

Period. Yeah. She even got an email saying that some club in Germany was playing one of her songs.

[Host]

Really?

[Sophia]

Yeah. I was looking at the stats because Spotify shows artists all the stats of where they're popular, and one of my songs just made it in. I don't even know how that happened.

[Natalie]

Okay. World tour.

[Host]

I know you guys have to get going, but I'd love to hear, since your mom does get so much online, especially around parenting, what is something about your mom specifically? Well, whatever. Whatever it is you want to say about your mom. Maybe it's something about parenting that people have. Would be surprised to hear or something that you want people to know about your mom.

[Sophia]

You know what? I'll look into the camera for this. This is serious. Okay.

[Tamara Judge]

My mom.

[Sophia]

Mom is genuinely one of the most caring, hard working women I know. People person. You're the most hard working person I know and I know you care so much, especially about your family. And like, I feel it every day. Like, I know you love me and I love you so much and you just. People don't see that. Like, I don't know, it's. I guess it's hard because you only see a little blip through TV and whatever and you can't really know a person through that. But yeah, you. I love you and you're very caring and you work hard.

[Host]

Well, thanks for saying that. Yeah, but we don't see that. I don't. I mean, you don't. You don't see that.

[Tamara Judge]

I don't. TV's not really something we talk about. Like, we're not like, oh, my mom's on tv. Like, we're. We're just very like down to earth. We're mostly in sweats and T shirts and I'm like, you ready to go to Target? Let's go to Target. Like our. Like you don't. You will rarely see me like walking red carpet. Most of the stuff I do is driven by Bravo. Like I was just in Boston for that. Like, it's just. I'm very low key Eddie too. And we go to Big Bear. Half. We live in Big Bear half the time and that's. There's no more a place in the world that's more relaxed than Big Bear. And it's just a. We live a very simple life. But I working my ass off and I'm lucky like you guys with the podcast that you can. I can do mine wherever. I have a studio set up in Big Bear. I. I have one in Orange County. I do that pretty much five days a week. Five days a week. Then my CBD business, which I brought you some products too. And THC business. And yeah.

[Host]

Is that making a lot of money?

[Tamara Judge]

Am I making a lot of money?

[Host]

Is that making you a lot of money?

[Tamara Judge]

It's a multi million dollar company.

[Host]

Good for you. Proud of you.

[Tamara Judge]

We'll probably sell it eventually, probably in the next year or so and. And you won't see me anymore.

[Host]

Good for you.

[Tamara Judge]

But yeah, it's doing well and the podcast is doing well as well, so.

[Host]

And how's Teddy?

[Tamara Judge]

Teddy? They. She announced recently. That's why I only talk about things that she announces. But they stopped her treatment because she was getting too ill. So her. She was just having all kinds of problems and in bed and not being able to do anything. And it wasn't really, you know, a great quality of life. So she, they decided to take her off treatment for a while so she can get her strength back. And it's just. I just love it when I see her on social media. Like this week she's been on social media again and she's walking and she's outside of the house and she looks amazing and I just like, like I DM'd her on one of her pictures. Like, I just love to see you laugh. And she goes, I love to see me laugh too. So it's been very, very difficult. Very difficult.

[Host]

Well, we love her and give her our best and I will.

[Tamara Judge]

I love her.

[Host]

We know she's fighting hard, so.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, she's fighting the fight.

[Host]

Well, I know you gotta go, but this has been fun. It's been great getting to know her.

[Tamara Judge]

It's been great.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

So great.

[Natalie]

Thank you so much.

[Tamara Judge]

Anytime.

[Host]

Please, please well, and just know that going forward, when we watch some of these scenes, we will try to take into context.

[Natalie]

No, Nick, I told you, when I. When I met Tamara at Crystal's party, I was like, she's such a professional. I sat down and I was like. Like, I'm like, we might have have said something and you're like, that's. Who gives a. Like it's part of the wish.

[Host]

They were all like you. Cuz. I know, I know. Shannon, I know. I'm going to get a text from Shannon. She's going to be like, just disappointed. Nick. That you had Tamron.

[Tamara Judge]

But that's so silly. Like that's. You can't be like that in this.

[Host]

I wish. I wish they were all like you.

[Tamara Judge]

No, I just don't care. Like I let things roll off my back.

[Host]

You're a professional. Tamara, it's been a pleasure. Thanks for taking the time.

[Tamara Judge]

Absolutely. Anytime.

[Host]

Good luck. Good luck the rest of the way.

[Natalie]

Please let our audience know where they can find you and follow you.

[Tamara Judge]

Tamara Judge. I'm Tamar Judge, across the board and two T's and a pod.

[Host]

All right, Tamar Judge, pop off.

[Natalie]

Thank you.

[Host]

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