E982 - RHOM w/ Lisa Hochstein, Perfect Match w/ Freddie, Bach in Paradise w/ Brian, New Taylor Swift Album

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Viall Files – Episode E982

Title: RHOM w/ Lisa Hochstein, Perfect Match w/ Freddie, Bachelor in Paradise w/ Brian, New Taylor Swift Album
Release Date: August 13, 2025
Hosts: Nick Viall, Natalie Joy, and the Household

---

Introduction

In Episode E982 of The Viall Files, host Nick Viall, alongside Natalie Joy and the Household, delves into an array of captivating topics spanning reality television, pop culture, and personal relationships. This episode features exclusive interviews with key personalities from popular reality TV shows and a discussion on Taylor Swift's latest musical endeavors.

---

Taylor Swift's New Album and Podcast Appearance

The episode kicks off with an animated discussion about Taylor Swift’s newly released album. Nick and his co-hosts express mixed feelings about Taylor's appearance on Travis Kelce's podcast, humorously critiquing his own disinterest in reality TV podcasts.

• Nick: "Just curious if you're having fun!"
  (03:34)

The conversation highlights the dynamics between Taylor and her partner, speculating on the nature of their interactions during the podcast episode. The hosts ponder whether listeners missed deeper insights by focusing predominantly on relationship aspects.

---

Interview Segment 1: Brian from Bachelor in Paradise

Guest: Brian, a notable contestant from Bachelor in Paradise.

Brian shares his experiences from the show, addressing audience curiosity about his favorite color—a seemingly trivial question that sparked tension during his time on the show.

• Brian: "I had no favorite color. It depends on the season, the aesthetic."
  (22:39)

The interview delves into the infamous hot tub moment with Parisa, where Brian felt misrepresented by the editing. He reflects on the incident:

• Brian: "A lot of backlash. From it."
  (24:16)

Brian opens up about his struggles with editing portrayal and the subsequent backlash from fellow contestants, emphasizing the challenges of maintaining authenticity on reality TV.

---

Interview Segment 2: Freddie from Perfect Match

Guest: Freddie, the heartthrob from Perfect Match.

Freddie discusses his unexpected journey into reality TV, initially responding to a TikTok advertisement after a difficult breakup. He contrasts his experiences on Love is Blind UK with Perfect Match, highlighting the differences in show formats and personal growth between the two.

• Freddie: "I never thought I’d be on reality TV. It was a whirlwind, but I’m glad I did it."
  (57:03)

He elaborates on his role in Perfect Match, his genuine connection with Madison, and the contrasting personalities that emerged from the show.

---

Interview Segment 3: Lisa Hochstein from The Real Housewives of Miami

Guest: Lisa Hochstein, renowned from The Real Housewives of Miami.

Lisa offers an in-depth look into her tumultuous divorce from Lenny Hochstein, unpacking the emotional and public challenges she faced during and after her marriage.

A. The Divorce Breakdown

Lisa recounts the pivotal moments leading to the dissolution of her marriage, including discovering her husband's infidelity and the ensuing public fallout.

• Lisa: "I had to confront him after finding messages on his phone. It was devastating."
  (90:37)

She criticizes the portrayal of her relationship on the show, arguing that editing omitted crucial context, thereby misrepresenting her character and actions.

B. Public Perception and Support

Discussing the backlash from fellow cast members and the public, Lisa emphasizes her resilience and the support she received from friends like Parisa.

• Lisa: "Parisa took the initiative to stand by me, helping us survive the backlash."
  (40:32)

She also addresses misconceptions about her actions, clarifying that her intentions were rooted in honesty and integrity.

C. Launching Split Well: An AI-Powered Divorce Support App

In an effort to turn her painful experiences into a resource for others, Lisa introduces Split Well, an AI-driven app designed to support individuals navigating the complexities of divorce.

• Lisa: "Split Well offers everything from recommended attorneys to document management, aiming to reduce conflict and costs."
  (124:08)

She highlights the app's features, including a note-taking tool and document translation, positioning it as a groundbreaking solution in the divorce support landscape.

---

Closing Remarks

Nick wraps up the episode by reiterating the value of genuine connections and personal growth, both in reality TV and real life. He encourages listeners to engage with the featured guests and explore the resources discussed, particularly Lisa's Split Well app.

• Nick: "Whether you're seeking relationship wisdom or the latest in reality TV, The Viall Files is your go-to podcast for laughter, insight, and hot gossip!"
  (Final Minute)

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Notable Quotes

• Brian on Misrepresentation:
  "I'm proud of being able to handle all the heat thrown my way without reacting. It's about digesting feedback and moving forward."
  (39:57)

• Lisa on Resilience:
  "I learned that I could handle immense criticism while maintaining my integrity. It was a turning point for me and Parisa."
  (41:25)

• Freddie on Seeking Genuine Connections:
  "I was there to meet a genuine connection with Madison. Having something real was always my priority."
  (67:53)

---

Conclusion

Episode E982 of The Viall Files offers listeners an engaging exploration of personal and public lives within the realm of reality television. Through insightful interviews and candid discussions, Nick Viall and the Household provide a nuanced perspective on love, life, and the intricate dance of maintaining authenticity in the spotlight.

Whether you're a fan of reality TV or seeking relationship advice, this episode delivers a compelling blend of entertainment and wisdom, ensuring you stay informed and entertained.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisement segments and non-content sections to focus solely on the valuable discussions and interviews presented in the episode.

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Brian]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another special. Is it a special episode? Well, it's Wednesday and we're out there giving you content that you in love. Either way, we're here. We're with you. We have a great episode lined up for you today. I'm your host, Nick. My beautiful wife is not here today. She's down bad. So she'll hopefully be with us soon. But we love her.

[Nellie]

Yeah, we love you, Natalie.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, we're transition. But anyways, you know who is on a podcast? Taylor Swift today? I mean, when you got done listening to Taylor Swift, hopefully you tuned in. You probably have already listened to it. Will I listen to it? I don't. I've never listened to an episode of New Heights. No hate against. I'm just, you know, too busy, I.

[Justin]

Guess, making your own podcast.

[Nick]

Make my own show. You know, funny guys, you know, love the football stuff. I don't know if I'll listen.

[Mary]

I think I might.

[Nick]

I've had a conversation with Taylor Swift before and I think I like a lot of fans for. For. This is like, she's going to talk.

[Brian]

That's a human. Yeah, I think.

[Nellie]

I don't think I've ever heard her.

[Nick]

Talk for that long and, like, have a conversation with someone.

[Justin]

It is so funny for the Swifties to be like, it's a football. I think. I think half the Swifties are split.

[Nick]

They don't know her man show.

[Justin]

They know her man show. But I think half of them like the. Oh, we have to listen to a man's podcast. And then the other half of them are like, oh, my God, she's on Travis's podcast, Kill a Tr. Well, I feel like there's the people that love Killotrav. And then there are the girlies that don't love Kill a Trav.

[Mary]

You know, Kill a Travis handle. Is this the first time I'm hearing this?

[Justin]

You've never heard Kill a Trav?

[Brian]

No.

[Nick]

Well, we'll dissect that a little bit more. But just to remind you, we have a great episode. It's jam packed. And we'll get to the interviews briefly because we have three of them. We got Brian from Bachelor in Paradise. We're just dying of know his favorite color. So that is why we have him on. We'd love to get some answers on. What we see is just a little bit of toxicity from Brian. Maybe it's the edit. I don't know. Maybe he has anger issues. Maybe he's a super secret. We. We may not find out his favorite color. Like he still.

[Brian]

He might.

[Mary]

You might ask and he might just leave.

[Nick]

He might refuse to share.

[Nellie]

You know, we're not doing this right now.

[Nick]

We're not doing this.

[Mary]

We're not doing this right now.

[Brian]

I'm.

[Mary]

I'm done. This interview is over.

[Nick]

Either way, it's. Well, you have that. Then we have the opposite. We have Freddie from Perfect Angel. That is. That is Freddy. Freddy was either written by Taylor Swift or a woman.

[Nellie]

He's a little angel of her.

[Nick]

Well, Taylor is a woman. Oops.

[Nellie]

By women.

[Nick]

I would say God, but then also of dog God, if you believe that sort of thing, which I mean, for. For I do. In case anyone's worried.

[Justin]

This is great.

[Nick]

This great content.

[Mary]

I love this.

[Nick]

I love this.

[Justin]

Keep talking.

[Nick]

Who. Who have.

[Justin]

Do you have anything to say about Beyonce?

[Mary]

You got God, Taylor Swift.

[Justin]

You got Beyonce.

[Nick]

What about Melissa Gorga?

[Justin]

Melissa Gorga. Equal to that level.

[Brian]

God.

[Justin]

Taylor Swift, Melissa Gorga. I say it all the time.

[Nick]

In that promo. That 100 million whatever fucking views.

[Mary]

Probably more by now.

[Nick]

That's crazy.

[Nellie]

I mean, I was still, like, I.

[Nick]

Was still waking up, clearly doing a bit, but the bit is kind of like he hates his girlfriend.

[Nellie]

It was kind of funny how she was looking directly at him and then.

[Nick]

He was just like.

[Nellie]

And she's here.

[Nick]

Like, he's giving. Like, I'm doing your podcast. He's like, okay, like, clearly that's not obvious. I'm sure they're thrilled.

[Nellie]

I mean, like, she obviously phoned in a favor because she wanted to promote this album because she didn't know that anybody was gonna buy it if she didn't go on this podcast to promote.

[Justin]

Yeah, obviously Taylor Swift really needs to get out there.

[Mary]

She's really doing Him a favor.

[Nick]

Listen, it is his. It is her boyfriend.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

But podcasting is the new way to promote whatever it is you need to promote. That's where people want to get to know you. They want to see the human that you are. And of course she's going to do her boyfriend.

[Nellie]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Because it's not like she. She doesn't have to feel uncomfortable in a setting. It's two people she knows very well. She has control of the Edit 4.8 podcast.

[Nick]

She definitely has control.

[Justin]

It's not like he's going to ask her hardball questions.

[Nick]

You know, I don't. I don't even. I don't not even suspect it's going to be like an interview. No, I expect it to be just like a little hangout sesh. Anyway, she has a new album. She's. She's collaborating with some new producers. I've never heard of them. I'm not. I mean, I know they're a big deal. I'm just not. I don't. I've offended them.

[Brian]

Now it's producers.

[Justin]

She's collaborated in the past. It's Max Martin and someone else.

[Nick]

And she put out a playlist of only, like, five.

[Justin]

Well, it's the songs that they've made for her already, which I will say are the bangers. Like a Max Martin Taylor Swift collab does go hard.

[Nick]

Is Style one of them?

[Justin]

Style is one of them.

[Nick]

Really?

[Nellie]

Is that your favorite?

[Nick]

I have danced by myself to style at 2 in the morning in my apartment in Chicago. Oh.

[Justin]

Oh, hell yeah. What neighborhood did you live in?

[Mary]

Why were you making dinner at 2 in the morning?

[Nick]

Maybe I wasn't. I was making food. My bar days.

[Nellie]

He was dancing in the refrigerator. Light.

[Justin]

White refrigerator.

[Nellie]

Light as lyric.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Mary]

A white refrigerator.

[Justin]

White refrigerator.

[Nick]

So style. Styles.

[Justin]

Styles.

[Brian]

One of them.

[Nick]

That's okay.

[Justin]

I'm. I'm a.

[Brian]

Hope. My.

[Justin]

My issue with the past couple Taylor Swift albums is I was like, I would love to hear what's happening behind her vocals. You know what I mean? I would love to hear a beat.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Like fun bop.

[Justin]

Yeah. Drums.

[Nellie]

Reputation. Maybe a little.

[Brian]

A little callback to that Max Martin.

[Justin]

I think some of it.

[Brian]

There we go.

[Justin]

I was just like, love the song.

[Nellie]

Would love to hear more of it.

[Justin]

You know, has been my thing. Anyway.

[Nick]

Anyways. It's. Well, I mean, obviously everyone who's. Everyone's listened to it by the time they got to this episode, probably.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Nick]

If you listen to us first. Thanks.

[Justin]

You're a g. Hey, if you listen to us first, you have Taste.

[Leia]

Thanks. Yeah.

[Nick]

Also this episode we have a big sit down with Lisa Hochstein. Not to be confused with Lisa Hochstein. Same person, but we called her Lisa Hochstein, but she referred to herself as Lisa Hockstein. So we're going forward, going to respect Hochstein.

[Justin]

Yes, her wishes.

[Nick]

She is with us. Obviously she has been going through a lot both personally and publicly with her divorce from Lenny. And she speaks with us, talking in great detail about just that whole kind of emotional anguish that she's been enduring while making great TV with the other housewives of Miami. We obviously talk a little bit about the season as well, but it is a great interview with Lisa. For all the Bravo fans out. We have all the tea that you're going to possibly want. So really important that you wrap up that Taylor episode and make sure it's, it's, it's must see or must listen programming with Lisa Hochstein. That is all up in this amazing episode. Also, tomorrow we're back for another reality recap. We have Sandy from Perfect Match with us. Also, our friend of show, Susie Evans, is going to come back, come back in and hang out with us because we had such a fun time with her the first time she decided to come back and hang out with us. Funny story about Sandy. The first time that we had Sandy in the studio was when we had her ex, Nick, not to be confused with me for that kind of double date interview. That was really awkward. And we talked some shit about Sandy prior to that. I thought I was tough on her, but apparently she didn't care. Mary had just started working here. You want to tell the story. It's like when it comes from you.

[Justin]

Yeah, isn't it? So basically we were recapping and I tend to be hyperbolic for, for comedic purposes. You know, don't offend it. Just say, anyway, I called her soulless. I called her soulless. I don't feel good about it.

[Nick]

At one point we were talking about Sandy, who at times it looked like she was Junior. What? Like.

[Justin]

And I really also Junior just brought out a bad side of me.

[Nick]

Yeah. Anyone who with Junior, you just. Anyways, Mary called her soulless.

[Justin]

I called her soulless. And over my head she came in. And then, you know, Nick and Nie, they love to be like, very kind to people. And they were like, don't look at the comments. Like people say really mean things on the Internet. And Sandy goes, well, the worst thing somebody actually said about me was here. And then I was still editing at the time. And she turns to me at my little desk and she goes, you call me soulless?

[Nick]

No, she said, the worst thing I've.

[Leia]

Been called is soulless by you.

[Justin]

Oh, yeah. And then she did say, verbatim, you called me soulless. And I went.

[Nellie]

The by you was a slow turn and point.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Nellie]

It landed at by you and then you turned red. That is her scene.

[Nick]

That was pretty savage of her.

[Justin]

No, it was really cool of her. And I think about it to this day, and Sandy, I'm deeply, deeply sorry.

[Nellie]

It was almost the perfect setup.

[Nick]

Anyway, she joins us tomorrow to talk. All things perfect match her time in the house with Louis. That should be a good. Sandy usually delivers.

[Nellie]

You only kissed two girls during Truth or Dare and then one outside of the game.

[Mary]

How long was this little boy's mixer? Because I.

[Nick]

Just a day, I think. It seemed like an hour.

[Nellie]

It wasn't even a day.

[Mary]

They came two hours.

[Nick]

I couldn't help myself, my dick was so hard.

[Freddie]

She said, lick her thigh.

[Brian]

Licked her thigh.

[Nick]

We'll get into all of that tomorrow. Well, before we get to our interviews, Lala wants to go on Southern Charm.

[Nellie]

Lala was doing an Amazon Live, and they asked her which reality show she'd most like to join. Her answer was, Southern Charm. She thinks that that's not real news. It's not real news.

[Nick]

You get asked questions on Amazon Live. And she got asked a question.

[Nellie]

She answered it made a headline. Yeah, but I guess maybe even the bigger question there would be, like, should reality TV stars win their shows get canceled, be able to pitch themselves for other series?

[Nick]

Listen, it's supply and demand. That's what I'm thinking, is demand for you. I don't know.

[Nellie]

Can't we agree, though, that some of the best episodes of, like, television are crossover episodes?

[Brian]

Yes.

[Justin]

Going back to the Disney Channel night.

[Nick]

Of premieres when Br Pitt went on Friends.

[Brian]

Love.

[Nick]

Sure.

[Nellie]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Yes.

[Nick]

That Thanksgiving episode slapped.

[Justin]

Oh, it did slap. Oh, my God. Winona Ryder went on Friends.

[Brian]

Yes.

[Nellie]

When you see people that, you're like, oh, what are you doing here? Even when I see a Tom Schwartz on. On Summer House.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Nellie]

Valley, not so much. But Summer House, it's like, hey, you don't belong here.

[Brian]

I like it.

[Justin]

Or it's like, speaking of Lala, when Lala. Briefly. When Lala and Katie show up in Salt Lake City in that one episode.

[Nick]

You go, you know, which of the men do you think would date Lala? And Lala would date Shep. I would love to see her date Shep, but I don't think They. I don't think either of them would be into each other. Craig, she's going for the top. Who's got the most money?

[Brian]

I mean, no offense.

[Nick]

No, Whitney. Yeah, Whitney.

[Brian]

Whitney.

[Justin]

It would probably be Whitney.

[Nellie]

Ew.

[Nick]

No, that tracks, right? Have we seen her date anyone but Randall since? Randall?

[Brian]

Well, I don't.

[Nellie]

She was famously rumored to have dated the man that Britney cheated on Jax with. Or the one that Jax got upset that she was hooking up with while they were separated.

[Leia]

Oh, the bachelor person.

[Nellie]

Yeah, Julian.

[Brian]

Julian.

[Nellie]

Remember? Jax found text messages between Britney and Julian on her apartment.

[Nick]

That's the last person is someone in their.

[Nellie]

In their circle.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nellie]

That's the last person rumored to be dating.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Why did she get out there?

[Mary]

But Lala doesn't live in Charleston.

[Justin]

Exactly.

[Brian]

That's my thing.

[Justin]

She's not from the south, even.

[Nick]

Well, she's not going to do the show. She got to ask the Amazon Live question.

[Justin]

Yeah, but theoretically, let's say.

[Nick]

Calm down.

[Mary]

Like, realistically, she's going to be on the Valley.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Lala doesn't have Southern charm. No offense.

[Nick]

In case you were wondering, if I were to do like, a scripted TV show, I would do the Office.

[Nellie]

It's not on the air.

[Brian]

Say more. Say more. Just kidding.

[Nick]

Southern charm bear.

[Justin]

You do give the Office.

[Nellie]

They're coming out with a new show paper.

[Brian]

I think it's already out.

[Nick]

No, the Office spin off. It's not out yet.

[Nellie]

It's not out yet?

[Mary]

No, it's out in the beginning of September.

[Brian]

It's out.

[Nick]

The paper.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Nellie]

I'm actually looking very forward to that.

[Brian]

I think the like, like, dry, you.

[Justin]

Know, mundane work comedy you would slay.

[Mary]

Who would we all be on the Office?

[Nick]

I never watched.

[Justin]

That's a really good question.

[Nick]

Zach's definitely Dwight.

[Justin]

Zach is.

[Leia]

I wish I got it.

[Nick]

Yeah. Justin, I think you'd really appreciate that if you did.

[Mary]

You would really appreciate that.

[Justin]

Justin is Pam.

[Nick]

All right, let me ask you this. If. If you were to pull a prank, if you think anyone in the office deserved a prank, and. And maybe, say, put their mouse in Jello. Who would you put their mouse in jello? I think that's not a fair question.

[Nellie]

Well, Leia would want to do the prank for sure.

[Justin]

The thing is, I would do it to Leia. To Leia. And it would have been her idea, but then she would have forgotten.

[Nellie]

I want to put somebody's phone in the ceiling and just keep calling it.

[Brian]

Oh, my God.

[Nick]

Yeah. Who's the most likely to punch a.

[Mary]

Hole in the wall?

[Nellie]

We will.

[Justin]

Little insider tea. Sometimes we will text Leia that you're calling her. Be like, he wants to talk to you right now.

[Mary]

And then she's about to call you.

[Justin]

Out and then you're like, literally just let me know.

[Mary]

Or Justin will literally just send me a text that says Leia. And I'm like, what?

[Nick]

No, I get a response. She's a mom.

[Justin]

It's because Leia does that to us.

[Brian]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin]

Literally one night I was taking a shower and then Leia, like, called me and I was like, hey. So I text her back because I was listening to music and I was like, I'm in the shower. Can we talk later? And she was like, oh, yeah, sure. And then like, I called her later and I was like, what's up? She was like, oh, I just want to, like, chat about something real quick.

[Brian]

Sorry.

[Nick]

No, it's beautiful. What was it about?

[Justin]

I don't know.

[Mary]

It was probably nothing.

[Justin]

Probably nothing.

[Nick]

Why'd you answer?

[Justin]

Because I was like, is it important? Because she was like, mary, all caps. And I was like, is it important you all capstone?

[Mary]

It was 3pm it was not in the shower.

[Justin]

It was fully, like 8 o' clock at night.

[Nellie]

This is what Leia finds really funny, by the way. This is why we mess with her, because she messes with. She put paper on my head for no reason. I just thought it was so funny.

[Justin]

She basically, like, made our office really, like, truly toxic one day. Not emotionally, physically, because she started spraying me with silly String. And then we looked and it was like, do not stray inside.

[Nick]

And it smelled like that for.

[Justin]

It smelled like that for the. Yeah, for the whole day.

[Brian]

We have fun here.

[Nellie]

So that's inside. Tea at the bio files.

[Nick]

Do you think Taylor and Travis will kiss on the.

[Mary]

On the podcast?

[Nellie]

Probably not.

[Justin]

That wouldn't do well for auditory listeners.

[Brian]

Stop it.

[Nick]

No. Why? You don't think they'll kiss on the pod?

[Nellie]

I would be curious if it's even going to be the full podcast. I feel like it's going to be like 20 minute little bit of just like her.

[Brian]

How funny would that be?

[Nick]

That would be weird.

[Mary]

That would be so funny if, like, it's a normal podcast. And then they're like, oh, Taylor, oh.

[Nick]

Because she can't handle talking.

[Nellie]

Well, I'm like, what do they talk about sports the whole time again?

[Nick]

I've never listened to it, but I don't. I don't think they just talk. I think they're. They're multi dimensional men who can, you know, bounce in and out of pop culture.

[Nellie]

And listen, I don't know anything, Jason, about Travis and Taylor, but I'm just like, I do feel like they kind of keep things private. Like, I don't think I'm gonna. We're gonna get like an hour of them talking about their relationship or like on vacation they went on. So, like, what, What. How long can you talk about an album? I guess for an hour.

[Nick]

That seems offensive.

[Mary]

What.

[Nick]

How long can you talk about Taylor's album?

[Nellie]

How is that?

[Nick]

I bet Taylor can talk about it a long time.

[Nellie]

Well, that's what I'm saying. Unless we're going to literally go through who wrote on it, who played on it, what the inspirations were, I just don't see that for New Heights podcast. Well, I also see she.

[Justin]

What she's going to do is she's going to say very specific things that are loaded with Easter eggs. And then the swifties are going to go in and turn a 20 minute conversation into a six hour long YouTube video essay. And they're probably going to be.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Mary]

How many views do we think that this episode is gonna get?

[Justin]

8 million.

[Nellie]

Does any YouTube video have a billion views?

[Justin]

Gangnam Style.

[Nick]

It's gonna have a million in the first 10 minutes for sure.

[Nellie]

Baby Shark has over 15 billion views.

[Brian]

Good.

[Nick]

Baby Shark.

[Brian]

Baby Shark.

[Mary]

Gangnam style has 5 billion despacitos. 71 million.

[Nellie]

So Baby Shark is the number one.

[Justin]

We used to be a profit country.

[Nick]

Even if it's despacito.

[Leia]

Justin Bieber.

[Mary]

Oh, are you hip to the happy song?

[Brian]

Like Pharrell?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Nellie]

Imogen Heap that, like makes babies crying in the. In the car.

[Nick]

Anyways, while Leia finds the happy song that I don't give a fuck about, let's get to our first interview, Brian, and hopefully we'll find out his favorite color. He's up next. Well, obviously one of the most meaningful things I get to do in the show is hear people's stories about the relationships and problems they have and hopefully try to help them from time to time. But sometimes it doesn't feel like I'm able to help. And there was this one listener who recently wrote in. They wrote in and said, I love my partner, but I have zero interest in sex. It's killing me. I feel broken. Well, first off, obviously we know she is not. We've had this conversation on the show before. It could be biological. It could be your brain chemistry at play.

[Freddie]

Luckily, there's a little pink pill called Addy. It's the first FDA approved treatment for frustrating low libido. In certain pre menopausal women. It's not about fixing you, it's about helping you feel like you. So go to addy.com to learn more. That's a d d y I.com and get back to feeling like yourself.

[Mary]

Addie or Flibanserin is for premenopausal women with Acquired Generalized Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder HSDD who have not had problems with low sexual desire in the past who have had low sexual desire. No matter the type of sexual activity, the situation or the sexual partner, this low sexual desire is troubling to them and is not due to a medical.

[Brian]

Or mental health problem, problems in the.

[Mary]

Relationship or medicine or other drug use. Addi is not for use in children, men or to enhance sexual performance. Your risk of severe low blood pressure and fainting is increased if you drink one to two standard alcoholic drinks close in time to your ADI dose. Wait at least two hours after drinking before taking Addi at bedtime. This risk increases if you take certain prescriptions, PTC or herbal medications or have liver problems and can happen when you take Addie without alcohol or other medicines. Do not take if you're allergic to any of Addie's ingredients. Allergic reaction may include hives, itching or trouble breathing. Sometimes serious sleepiness can occur. Common side effects include dizziness, nausea, tiredness, difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep and dry mouth. See full PI and medication guide including.

[Nellie]

Boxed [e-mail] PI.

[Nick]

It's a digital world out there and you know that you're sending and receiving money constantly. Well, make sure you're doing it with a partner you trust. And we trust Cash App here at the Valve House. Cash App empowers people to send, spend and protect their money with ease, whether that's splitting dinner with friends or grabbing concert tickets early. With built insecurity, scam protection and instant access to perks, it's the go to tool for anyone who wants convenience, safety and control right from their phone. With Cash App you can spend, save and live your life knowing your money is right where you left it. With advanced built in security protections you can count on and help when you need it. Spend with peace of mind today and order a Cash App card in the app or at Cash App Card for a limited time. Only new Cash App customers can use our exclusive code to earn some additional cash for real. Just download Cash App Use our exclusive referral code that's V I A L L1 0 in your profile. Send $5 to a friend within 14 days and you'll get $10 dropped right into your account. It's that easy. Terms apply. That's money. That's Cash App. Cash App is a financial service platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App Bank Partners. Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton bank bank member FDIC direct deposit round up overdraft coverage and discounts provided by Cash App, a Block Inc. Brand. Visit Cash App Legal podcast for full disclosures. Brian, welcome to the show.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Thanks for having me, man.

[Nick]

First question, you know what it's going to be?

[Lisa Hochstein]

I don't know.

[Nick]

What's your favorite color?

[Lisa Hochstein]

Dude, I don't have a favorite color.

[Nick]

Come on, Brian.

[Lisa Hochstein]

And it depends on the season, the aesthetic.

[Nick]

All right, we'll paint it. We'll paint. I'm going to paint a vibe for you. All right. It's autumn.

[Leia]

Okay.

[Nick]

All right. It's six. It's like. It's a. It's a. It's A brisk 55 degrees. There's football on. I'm not sure if you watch football, but you don't wear blue.

[Brian]

Blue.

[Nick]

Blue. Okay.

[Mary]

Okay. Now I have a question. Okay. You're in a hot tub with a beautiful woman. It's summer and it's hot. What's your favorite color?

[Lisa Hochstein]

Teal.

[Nick]

Teal.

[Mary]

Teal. Okay.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Justin]

That seems like a similar color to blue. Is there a common thread of blue?

[Mary]

Your shirt is also.

[Justin]

Your shirt is also blue.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Listen, I don't like to talk about it.

[Nick]

I'm already. So anyways, I'm curious, Brian. Obviously, we've enjoyed watching you on the show, and. And, you know, we like to have a bit of fun with. With our guests. But I don't know, what was your interpretation watching this back.

[Brian]

Back.

[Nick]

Seeing you in the hot tub with Parisa. How did you think you came across in that moment when Parisa, from our vantage point was just like, hey, man, what's your favorite color? Let's play a little this or that. Like, let's just shake it up. We just barely know each other. I don't fucking know, man. Top or bottom? And. And you. You seem to, like, be in a certain kind of mood or whatever, but I just want to hear your perspective. We know sometimes maybe context might be missing. I don't know. Don't want to.

[Brian]

To.

[Nick]

Don't want to put words in your mouth. But, like, how did you just see it yourself? Did you like the way it came across? Or do you. Do you have any notes for us?

[Lisa Hochstein]

Definitely didn't like the way it came across.

[Nick]

Okay, how did it came across?

[Lisa Hochstein]

A lot of backlash. From it.

[Nick]

Did you feel misrepresented in that moment?

[Brian]

Listen.

[Lisa Hochstein]

For eight hours. Yeah, eight hours. Tons of conversations. I'm dancing, I'm sweating, I'm exhausted. I just want to enjoy the night with Parisa. Like, there's a full moon, the scene set, we're on the top roof, we're in a pool. There's a hot tub. We have the whole place to ourselves. We're popping champagne and, like, forcing conversations.

[Nick]

Okay, so you wouldn't. You're not a small talk guy.

[Lisa Hochstein]

I mean, to open with what's your favorite color? Is just the little lack of depth there. And I just don't know where we're gonna go with it.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Lisa Hochstein]

And I'm just. I'm being. I'm a little tired and cranky from being in a bird outfit for eight hours.

[Justin]

Do you think that maybe because there are many different colors in the bird outfit, that's kind of where she was picking up on the. Your favorite color?

[Nick]

Or maybe it just wasn't meant to be deep. Maybe it was just like. Maybe she just thought it was going to be like a six second conversation and then he would move on.

[Lisa Hochstein]

It's a good. It's an interesting perspective. I didn't think of, you know, the colors from the birds.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Listen, I had a little moment, like.

[Nick]

What'S your favorite color? Black. Like your heart, Brian.

[Lisa Hochstein]

I had a little moment. I'll own it, then move on.

[Mary]

Brian, it did seem like you weren't picking up on how she was feeling in the aftermath of that, because you kind of woke up and it was almost like everything was back to normal for you. And she was definitely still feeling a type of way. At least that's how we saw it. So I'm curious to know, like, were you sensing that she was maybe a little off, a little upset by that, or were you kind of like, it's all good?

[Lisa Hochstein]

I mean, we had, like, a great night. We had a really, really good night together. Like, as soon as production and the cameras leave the room, like, we got to completely enjoy the vip. VIP suite beat. So I thought we had a really good time.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Lisa Hochstein]

They also woke us up really early. We thought we'd be able to spend a little more time sleeping a little bit. That didn't happen. Listen, I pick up on things. Yes. But in a nutshell, overall, I truthfully believe we had an amazing night.

[Nick]

Okay. So you would kind of more chalk it up to almost like production fatigue a little bit. Like, just kind of exhausted of the grind that is making reality TV 100%.

[Lisa Hochstein]

I mean, listen, did I have a moment? I had a moment, but, yeah, for sure.

[Nick]

Minus that. Just. Do you. Did you have any other moments? Because it. It did seem like there are a couple times where you just. It kind of comes across, and maybe you're just tired or maybe you're just getting a bad rap, you know, but you seem, like, kind of just annoyed at Parisa all the time.

[Lisa Hochstein]

No, that. That. That, truthfully was my only moment.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Lisa Hochstein]

That I have, like, I had a great relationship with production, everything else. Loved it. Parisa, our relationship is, at this point in time, like, going into, like, where we're at in the episode is now flourishing. But in those moments, at times, she could be a little intense, and I was kind of adapting to it. I'm more of, like, chill, relaxed. She's a little bit more intense and.

[Nick]

Well, just to play devil's advocate, Brian, patience.

[Lisa Hochstein]

It takes patience. Like, adapting to someone's personality.

[Nick]

Yeah. What is your favorite color? Is a pretty chill question. Just. Just play devil dab together. All right.

[Lisa Hochstein]

I'm gonna dress you like a bird for eight hours. Have you sweaty rain poured on you waiting in the room, getting ready to perform.

[Nick]

All right, so Brian has his breaking point.

[Lisa Hochstein]

I'm gonna ask you a question that.

[Leia]

You don't want to answer.

[Justin]

You really did great as a bird. You know, the performance was incredible.

[Nick]

Let's get into the whole journey of it all. I had no problem with you telling Bailey. The only thing I didn't get was the lying after it. It was like, why didn't you just own it? You know what I'm saying? Like, because I did think it was fucked up that you're even. I don't care that you were friends with. With. With Jeremy. I think that. I think being a good friend sometime is to hold your friends accountable and say, hey, man, like, yeah, you're my boy. But, like, like, why you moving this way? And, like, you should. You shouldn't. You should do something different. Right. I understand Andrew's point of view. Like, yes, I. Ultimately, I'm nitpicking. You probably should have gone to Jeremy and said, hey, man, if. If you're not going to tell her, I will, but I really think you should just tell her and just get it over with. There's no. There's no good time to deliver bad news, so why don't we just go. Why don't you just go do it now? But that aside, why. Why didn't you just, like, I, I. I'm assuming you're going to Say you didn't want people to know and yada yada, but, like, like, everyone just kind of assumed it was you already. So why didn't you just, like, own that rather than, like, you know, like, your version was like, they. They asked me about Susie or Bailey. I don't know. You had this whole story that you came up with that was not remotely true, rather than just being like, hey, man, like, yeah, Jeremy was kind of playing Bailey. I thought it was kind of up. And. And. And everyone who's watching it would agreed with you. You.

[Lisa Hochstein]

There's kind of like two pieces to that puzzle, and one of them is. Is like, Alex, her roommate, knew. All of the girls knew and, like, withheld information from her. So I almost, like, was giving the ability to the rest of the women in the house to just own it and keep me out of the scenario.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Lisa Hochstein]

And then the other side of it was, I knew the backlash that was going to happen from the guys in the house, from the bro code and everything else that was going on, and the heat that I got from it was whether I was upfront with it in the beginning or not. It wouldn't have mattered. So, like, it really. It wouldn't have mattered.

[Nick]

Even if it wouldn't have mattered, wouldn't you have rather just, you know, as they say these days, stood on business and just been like, hey, right is right. You can hate me all you want, but I don't think that Jeremy's been upfront with. With Bailey, and she has the right to know. We would all, all want to know. And, like, kind of to your point, like, everyone else wanted to downplay it. That seemed to be Jeremy's point of view. Right. It's just like, well, I didn't think it was a big deal, and you proved everyone that it was a big deal to Bailey, and. And everyone else was kind of acting as if, like, well, you know, Bailey and Jeremy are good now, so, like, why are we bringing up kind of that old news? Maybe they're only good because she's operating with half the information. So, like, I completely understood your thought process. It just seems like, like, going forward, you would have been better off just, like, owning it and just, like, because you took what you took what, like, seemed like you doing the right thing and then almost turned it into you trying to cover your tracks for doing something you shouldn't have done, you know, But I thought you did the right thing.

[Lisa Hochstein]

I agree and disagree with you. I wanted the information to be relayed to Bailey. I. I didn't Want it to have to be expressed. For me, you saw the difficulty that I even had trying to get it out to her.

[Nick]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lisa Hochstein]

That was so difficult for me to even tell her.

[Nick]

Her.

[Lisa Hochstein]

But she's like, you need to tell them. Yeah, you need to tell them.

[Nick]

Yeah. No, it's never, never fun delivering bad news.

[Lisa Hochstein]

And with that being said is like, me and her, like, kind of had a pact. And, like, she stayed 10 toes down on it, too. And she's like. I was like, let everyone know that this came from the girls because, like, they should have said it. And she held it down. She told Jeremy. She's like, yeah, it came from the girls, told everyone else. Honestly, Barista is the one that told everybody that it came from me because I'm like, who even told everybody? And it came from Parisa.

[Nick]

So did Bailey. Was it Bailey's idea to tell everyone it was from the girls, or was it your idea?

[Lisa Hochstein]

It was kind of both our. Our ideas because we knew the backlash that would come from the guys. And we're at a point now we're in a challenge that you don't want to put yourself in the crosshairs with anybody. So we get this, you know, backlash for the bro code from all the guys. Girls are projecting out of guilt because they haven't told her for. Literally, we're three quarters of the way through the entire season at this point.

[Leia]

Point.

[Lisa Hochstein]

So I was like, how do we mitigate this? And, you know, we. We spoke about that and had that conversation, which actually, I don't. I don't believe it was shown, but you see how she does say it can't the girl.

[Nick]

So do you regret telling Bailey?

[Lisa Hochstein]

No. Do I think it began to put me in the crosshairs and start to hurt Teresa and I's odds at winning the bag 500k. Yeah. But we start maneuvering in a way that helps us later on.

[Mary]

Okay, Brian, yesterday we had Andrew on the show, and when we asked him about this situation, he made it seem like maybe this was a strategic move on your part to kind of get some competition out of the way with Jeremy and Bailey. What would you respond to that?

[Lisa Hochstein]

That shut it down immediately because I already knew what I was doing was actually going to completely hurt me right in the game. So, like, that could just be shut down immediately.

[Brian]

It's true.

[Lisa Hochstein]

There was no benefit to me doing that because I was going to ensure that Bailey did not go home.

[Mary]

So what was your thought process in terms of your timing? Because at least the way that it's edited Together. We saw that you were starting to think about it. It in last week's episode. So what made you do it now as opposed to earlier?

[Lisa Hochstein]

It's a great question. So I did think about it from a leverage perspective when Jeremy and Bailey had the power of the rose to potentially send me home the week prior, and I was like, I don't want to go about it that way. I think that's the wrong way to go about it. I think Jeremy and I have a good enough relationship that he's not going to send me home. And then when we had the rendezvous opportunity, I'm like, you know what? Like, this might be a good time where, like, there isn't all eyes on us to have the conversation with her like she was. If I didn't. I'm telling you right now, if I didn't bring this up, she's going to watch this season and find out on this season episode after episode of Jeremy talking about Susie.

[Nick]

You don't think Jeremy would have ever told me?

[Lisa Hochstein]

No chance.

[Mary]

Did any part of you think that you should maybe go to Alex or to one of the girls and try to convince them to tell her?

[Lisa Hochstein]

If you guys watch the season, Spencer had a conversation with him, Alex had conversations with other people about it, and everyone was just scared and unwilling to do it.

[Mary]

Is that what it was? They were scared.

[Nick]

But why not. Why not say to Alex, well, would you have done anything different? Like. Like hindsight being 20 20, knowing that you don't have a regret telling Bailey, knowing that you don't think Jeremy would ever have told her? I agree with both those. If you could have done anything differently, would you have at least whether it's going to Jeremy or going to Alex, say, hey, listen, I feel very strongly about this. She has the right to know. I don't want to be the one to tell her, but, like, she needs to know. So, like, you decide for yourself, I'm either going to tell her or maybe she should hear it from her best friend or she should hear from the guy she's dating. I don't think she should hear it from me. I think we all agree on that. That. But if you guys are gonna not say anything, I'm not gonna keep watching this girl be kind of played, you know? No. Everyone's deciding her fate for her, and that's not right. Like, would you have done that differently?

[Lisa Hochstein]

Your approach is valid, but it's still giving people, like, an ultimatum.

[Nick]

Yeah, we're just talking about doing the right thing, you know.

[Brian]

Right.

[Lisa Hochstein]

And Alex is. I Don't think Alex is really the type of person to create that conflict. Like, she's scared of that type of conflict. I have a lot of. And I have all the ultimate respect for Alex. I love her. She's super funny, super quirky. A doll.

[Nick]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lisa Hochstein]

But she's not one that's gonna like step up and create conflict. And anyone who's going to step up and have that conversation or try and force that conversation is creating conflict. And to be honest, I'm really like the only. But that person during the. That was gonna. Was willing to do it.

[Nick]

But I. Yeah, well, I guess the.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Only part I disagree with Jeremy pinning him into an area of saying, like, listen, I'm gonna tell her. If you don't tell her, it kind of leads to a similar outcome in terms of like the backlash from. From his perspective. And I think he could have just found it within himself to say it at some point, like, or the girls could have. So I stand by what I did.

[Nick]

Yeah, but they, they weren't going to. You even said that, I guess. But you're. You're creating the conflict by creating the ultimatum. You know, you're saying, hey, I don't. I know you're not going to do this, Alex, because you, you're risk averse and whatever. Jeremy has his reasons. But. But Right. And then that way if they're not going to do it, then you go, then you can go tell Bailey and been like, hey, I tried to do.

[Lisa Hochstein]

The right thing and I think we end up in the same place.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Mary]

Were you surprised that Bailey forgave Jeremy so quickly?

[Lisa Hochstein]

Yeah. Watching it back, I was a bit surprised at how quickly she forgave him. I've also been kind of like staying tuned into what she's been saying and she's pretty much continuously had my back that like my intentions were not. Not out of ill will or ill intentions whatsoever. If I was her, I think I would have had more questions for him. But again, right now that could be questions that they're having right now and discussing right now because I don't think any of us really knew how much. I mean, me and Dale knew, but like in terms of watching the show back, like how much he was saying it in interviews and everything else, like we knew what was going on there, but like the continuous in like ITM interviews and things like that of him talking about it was wild.

[Mary]

There is one comment that you said that he said that we didn't actually see and it was. Was the proposing comment.

[Nick]

Yeah, it doesn't he. He's up in people's comments denying that. Isn't he, like, some calling.

[Mary]

Denying that.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Did that. Did he actually say that?

[Lisa Hochstein]

I can confirm that he said that.

[Nick]

Okay, where. Where did he say that?

[Lisa Hochstein]

He said in the room.

[Nick]

Could he. Could he.

[Lisa Hochstein]

It wasn't when we were. It wasn't when we were in bird costumes.

[Nick]

Could he be misremembering, or do you think he's lying?

[Lisa Hochstein]

Listen, I have a lot of respect for him. I don't want to call him a liar.

[Brian]

Like.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Like, I'm still cool with him. I'm still cool with everybody there. But did he say it? Yeah, he said it.

[Nick]

And was he. Was he, like, people have said us. I haven't met Jeremy, but they've said he has a dry sense of humor, and he says things that I guess you shouldn't take seriously. I know he's denying he said it all together, but it could have been.

[Lisa Hochstein]

In a humorous, comical way. But at the same time, it's like there was so much discussion about her. Her, like, DMing her after. If she came back, I would propose on the spot. I mean, I don't know if it's a joke. Like, the date that they went on was, like. Went so well. Like, he was smiling ear to ear. Like, you could naturally see organically, see how much fun and how, like, how good of a time that he had with Susie on that date. So he was. And again, like, I'm not one to judge, because I think he was really just, like, stuck. Like, I really like this girl. I really like this girl. I'd love to explore them both. I'm like, that's what paradise is supposed to be about. But it's just the timing just wasn't there. So, like, I don't judge him for that at all. And I think he was just kind of venting.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Lisa Hochstein]

To the. To us, you know?

[Nick]

Yeah. What did you learn about yourself in this process?

[Lisa Hochstein]

That I could take a lot of heat from people without reacting. Every single person in the villa was just coming at me, like, Andrew's coming at me, Spencer's coming at me. They're talking, you know, about me and Paris's relationship, that I mistreat her and all these other things. And they're like. They're coming at my character and my integrity and just the will to just sit back and digest what everyone is saying to you without, you know, reacting to someone and to sleep on it. Digest and just take away, like, what you agree with, what you disagree with and wake up the Next morning and move forward with it. And I think just the callus of being able to handle that, I was pretty proud of. So I think that's what I would take away from it, honestly.

[Nick]

All right.

[Mary]

Do you think that it strengthened your relationship with Parisa? Because I feel like sometimes when you go through conflict or navigate something with someone, it can either break you or make you stronger. How do you feel like Parisa was as a partner during all of that?

[Lisa Hochstein]

I will give Parisa all the credit in the world that the only reason we just got through that rose ceremony, it was because of her.

[Nick]

How so?

[Lisa Hochstein]

She held it down. Like, she just stood by what I did. And, you know, all the girls reacted and projected kind of out of guilt because, like, they were like, they obviously, they should have said something, and they didn't.

[Brian]

Right.

[Lisa Hochstein]

And everyone kind of jumped on the train of, like, he shouldn't have done that. He shouldn't have done that. And then, like, obviously, Wells was involved, but Parisa took, like, like, real initiative and saying, like, listen, like, we really should have spoke up. Like, he did the right thing. And she was just immediately in my corner from there on out, just holding it down. And honestly, I think we survived solely because of her and her efforts in getting the rounding up the girls to, like, completely understand, like, listen, you did the right thing. How has no one, like, brought this up yet? So that really brought us closer to, in terms of, like, her having, you know, my back and us, you know.

[Nick]

Just staying as a unit, watching it back. In addition to this, like, holding it down, like, watching you interact as a partner, did you learn anything about yourself in terms of, like, yeah, just how you are as a partner or how you give or receive love and how you communicate?

[Lisa Hochstein]

Yeah. I mean, even, like, I'm talking to her about it because she thought, like, the rendezvous was, like, trying. Like, I was trying to be romantic with me about it.

[Mary]

Right.

[Lisa Hochstein]

And that wasn't the case. And she's like, all right, if you're gonna do this, like, you got guts. Like, you got guts. And I just really appreciated her riding with me the whole way with that. And then in terms of being a partner, she kind of disagreed with me at first, But I think after really, like, communicating and getting on the same level, it's like just being in the right communication. The right state with your partner will dictate whether they're gonna ride with you or not. So it's like, I think that was, like, really a turning point for Paris and I in terms of, like, how close we Became as a unit.

[Nick]

Okay, what is Brian doing when you're feeling loosey goosey, you don't have a care in the world when you're the most unserious. Like, what. What are you? What is that? What does that world look like for you, Brian?

[Lisa Hochstein]

I mean, I'm just like, socializing, cracking jokes. Like, you see Dale and I just like laughing hysterically. Like, like, he's like, dude, we're just some big ass kids. We're just some big ass kids. And like, yeah, just. It's not, you know, just don't take life too seriously when you have to take life serious. Take life serious. But, like, try not to take life too seriously. You know, there's. I could elaborate more into, like my hobbies and things that I like to do, but that too.

[Mary]

How stressful was that for you when Dale was like. So you just. You didn't say anything, right? Because, like, you'd be such a. A horrible person if you had.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Just. Because, like, I have the utmost respect for Dale and, like, he was. He was my homie throughout the entire show. And, like, he's the one that I stay the closest with, like today. So, like, not telling him the truth up front was awful. Like, it didn't feel good. Still doesn't feel good. But like, in conversations afterwards, he's like, listen, I know you as a person. I know, like, outside of the show, your integrity as a person. Like your character as a person. So he's like, I'm not going to judge you for this at all. He's like, but from like a show standpoint, I have to judge you for this. So he's like, I cannot ride with you for this. So he was super upfront. He's like, I can't vote to keep you here. And that's what I loved about him, is that he told me straight up. It was like. But outside of this show, he's like, you're my boy. But he's like, right now, I cannot ride with you.

[Nick]

Okay, all right.

[Lisa Hochstein]

I was like, at least you're going to be upfront about it and tell me straight to my face. That means a lot.

[Nick]

Are you. Are you cool with Andrew?

[Lisa Hochstein]

Me and Andrew don't really speak. We don't have. We don't have problems or anything like that. But you know what's funny, like, about Andrew's. When I watched paradise, like two, whatever the last, you know, two seasons, like, me and my mother are watching it late night in preparation for this paradise, he was like my favorite character. So when I Saw him come in on the show, I was surprised, and I was like, hey, man, like, I'm, like, a fan of yours. Of, like, your character. Like, you as a character on the show. Show, like. Like, you know what I mean? Like, his character and, like, who he was in the show, and, like, it was, you know, like, a fanboy situation with him.

[Nick]

So what happened?

[Lisa Hochstein]

We actually had that conversation post, me speaking to Bailey, and he's like, bro, we were so good. Like, we were homies. And, like, you even told me, like, that you were a fan of mine from, like, the last show. And, like, we were so good. It's like, then you go and do this, and, like, now this is how I feel about you. But, I mean, yeah, outside of the show, we really haven't spoke, but the rest of the cast, we actually stay in touch quite a bit.

[Nick]

Okay. Because he mentioned he didn't think you were very nice to Parisa. But do you think that's bias or.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Yeah. You know, towards the end of the show, like, Spencer approaches me, Jeremy approaches me, Dale approaches me, and they're all like, dude, I'm not going to lie. Like, I've never seen someone, like, take so much heat and, like, so much criticism and just, like, without reacting, like, Spencer's like, bro, I would have punched.

[Leia]

Him in the face.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Because they began to realize that a lot of what was, like, kind of being shown or being told was, like, really out of context in terms of how Paris and I really were. Like, we really are a strong couple and a strong duo, and there's just so much that's taken out of context and not just what the show depicts, but really just the, like, internal conversations that people are having that are just not true. True. And they begin to see that, and they're like, listen. They apologize and they're like, listen. We didn't know the context. We didn't know the context. Like, you actually been, like, straight this entire time.

[Nick]

What is the most untrue thing that you think people perceive about you? Whether, you know, from what we're watching or things like that or context that you think is missing or, like, what you're referring to your peers kind of saying to you? What. What is this thing that.

[Lisa Hochstein]

I mean, like, yeah, when. So, like, when we're having. When Andrew's coming after me and Spencer's coming after me, I'm sitting there just taking all the heat. It's crazy. It was intense. They don't know the context. They're like, yeah, you mistreat her. I'm like, I really never mistreat. I don't mistreat women. I was like, I've never mistreated her. I maybe told her some things that like, she may not have wanted to hear, but it was the. It was honesty. And it was honesty in order to, like, build our foundation for the future. And they never knew the context of any of it. So, like kind of later on then when like Teresa and I really start turning the corner and becoming stronger and she starts vocalizing those things and they're like, oh, okay, like it wasn't him like mistreating her in any other. In any way. Like, I'm like, go off the rails and disrespect her at any point in time ever.

[Nick]

Okay, you're just being honest.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay. Brian, we really appreciate taking the time, buddy. I know you took some time out of your very busy schedule, man.

[Lisa Hochstein]

I appreciate it.

[Nick]

You know, you work in what, med device?

[Lisa Hochstein]

Medical aesthetic. So I'm in Vegas right now. Medical aesthetics, you know, Botox, fillers, some devices.

[Nick]

Oh, you're like at a conference.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Yeah. National sales meeting for the week.

[Nick]

Pop off. Everyone's saying Vegas is dead. What do you think?

[Lisa Hochstein]

I don't think it's dead. I'm at the fountain Blue right now.

[Nick]

It's okay.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Last night was a Monday. It was pretty popping.

[Nick]

All right, what's your game?

[Lisa Hochstein]

Listen, I was doing real well last night until I started drinking.

[Nick]

Oh, wow.

[Lisa Hochstein]

And I was. Yeah, I was up a couple thousand and I could just say, I'm not up anymore.

[Brian]

Oh, man.

[Nick]

They're like, what do you want to bet on? What color? They're like, I can't do this game.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Yeah, well, okay. Last night it was a lot of black. A lot of black.

[Mary]

Okay, put five bucks on 11 for me.

[Lisa Hochstein]

11. So I was betting a ton on 11. Last line. That's actually like where I. My money.

[Mary]

Look what you did.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Someone told me to bet on 11 and it didn't work out.

[Mary]

But I've never been successful with it.

[Nick]

With roulette. That's crazy.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Well, like, you just play all the number. You play a bunch of numbers. And I actually made most of my money in roulette. I was. I was losing in craps and blackjack.

[Nick]

Damn.

[Lisa Hochstein]

I said, I also just want to plug in. I own a restaurant in the Hamptons as well. Tacos, margaritas in Hampton Bay's. So that's another thing we just. I just opened up with my brother in law as of the beginning of June. So that's, you know, another venture that I have that I love to do as well.

[Nick]

All right, what's the best thing on the menu?

[Lisa Hochstein]

Tuna nachos.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Nice. Beef over some nachos.

[Justin]

That sounds good.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Margarita right on the water.

[Nick]

Well, if I ever go to the Hamptons, I'll be sure to check it out.

[Brian]

Me too.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Come check it out, man.

[Nick]

Brian, appreciate your time, buddy.

[Lisa Hochstein]

Thank you, guys. I appreciate you.

[Nick]

All right, talk to you later.

[Lisa Hochstein]

All right, thanks a lot.

[Nick]

Bye. Bye.

[Justin]

Bye.

[Nick]

Brian's never wrong. Honestly.

[Justin]

He was like, yeah, I was just in that bird costume, and I was annoyed. I was like, you know what?

[Brian]

Fair enough.

[Mary]

You know what, though? I do. I do think that the reason everybody was so pissed off at him was projection. Like, I think that they were pissed off themselves for not telling Bailey.

[Nick]

For sure.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Nick]

What I don't get is him standing on the whole, like, well, I just wouldn't have done anything differently. And, like, I agree with you, but I disagree. No, it's just, like, I just.

[Mary]

I think that he should have given.

[Brian]

He definitely could have pulled Alex aside.

[Mary]

Maybe, or Jeremy aside.

[Nick]

The fact that he had no notes about how he handled it. It's like, I wouldn't have done things differently. I have no regrets. But it's like, yeah, you know? Okay. Come on.

[Mary]

There's definitely things that he could have done differently, right?

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Mary]

I mean, I think that even, like, doing the rendezvous behind Paris is back. Like, why didn't he let her in on that sooner? Or, like, consult.

[Nick]

Honestly, Honestly. Honestly, there's. I bet. I bet there's a lot of, like, production stuff. Timing wise, the rendezvous date, I'm gonna chalk that all up to trying to.

[Mary]

Make a dramatic moment because nobody else.

[Nick]

Just working with production and. And. But that doesn't change the fact that, like, he could have just been like, no, I'm just gon ahead and tell the kid who's napping to go tell her, you know? And I said it. Doesn't it. What's your favorite color? Is not a hard question.

[Justin]

It's not.

[Mary]

It's blue.

[Justin]

It's obviously.

[Nick]

Also.

[Justin]

It's obviously blue, Parisa.

[Nick]

Of being too serious. When you're so serious, you can't also. You can't play that game.

[Justin]

Has he met Parisa?

[Mary]

He wanted to cut to the chase. They were in the hot tub, and he wanted it to be romantic. And then he was horny, you know?

[Nick]

I know he was horny.

[Justin]

He wasn't thinking about colors.

[Mary]

He was like, I don't care about colors right now. We're in a hot tub.

[Nick]

I don't know. I mean, that's what.

[Justin]

But even in that moment, you just go blue.

[Nick]

There's something.

[Mary]

There's something going on. There's something going on with. With colors that's, like, deeply triggering to him. And it's a hard. It's the hardest question for him.

[Nick]

He's a very earnest guy. Yeah, he's very serious.

[Justin]

You seem nice.

[Mary]

Nice?

[Nick]

He's nice.

[Mary]

Yeah, he's really good looking, actually.

[Brian]

He is.

[Nick]

You find him handsome?

[Justin]

Yeah, I find him. I found him hotter in this interview.

[Mary]

I do, too.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I wish he would just chill out a little bit.

[Mary]

For sure. Because he does seem like a funny, like, chill guy.

[Nick]

He doesn't seem chill at all to me.

[Mary]

Not in. In real life. It seems that way.

[Nick]

Do you think he seems chill in real life?

[Mary]

Like a jokester?

[Nick]

I didn't get that vibe.

[Brian]

Really?

[Nick]

He seems very earnest. Like what? You know, what's wrong with being earnest? Nothing. I'm earnest.

[Justin]

You are pretty earnest.

[Mary]

He definitely doesn't like being wrong or being told that he's wrong.

[Nick]

What's one thing you learned about yourself? How awesome I am. I honestly couldn't believe I was capable of doing such things on reality tv. Is basically his answer. I don't know. Yeah, I get it.

[Justin]

Gotta respect the hustle.

[Mary]

He makes good tv, though. I mean, I gotta say, this season of Bachelor in Paradise is actually really good.

[Nick]

Yeah. I'm just being honest.

[Justin]

This is the first book about to be completely honest. The first time I've, like, been actively, like. I enjoy watching this while watching a Bachelor series.

[Nick]

It's been fun.

[Mary]

Nick hates Brian.

[Nick]

I don't. Brian, I don't hate you at all. I just. I don't. I think he could stand to be a little bit open to, like, not being right, especially since, like, it didn't go the way he wanted it to.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

It's like all the things that didn't go his way were outside of his control. Is I. You know, I just.

[Mary]

No, there are definitely things, like, I think even just, like, what?

[Nick]

I'm sorry.

[Mary]

Could you have done differently with Parisa? And it was more like. Well, I was just being honest. You got to be honest. It's like. But there are ways to be honest that are hurtful.

[Nick]

So it's the same way. And I get being tired, but sometimes you're tired. You don't need to be a dick.

[Mary]

But it's also like, you. You did the right thing ultimately with Bailey. But could you have gone about it differently?

[Brian]

Yes.

[Mary]

You probably could have tried to pull Alex aside and be like, hey, maybe you should tell her or pull Jeremy aside. And without it sounding like an ultimatum, just kind of be like, I encourage you to tell Bailey because it's not cool. She is going to watch this back.

[Nellie]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know what I think it is? I think my criticism of not just Brian. I think some of the men on the show and all the reality TV shows, they're lacking in the empathy part of the putting themselves in the other person's shoes. Like, Brian's is like, hey, I was in a goddamn bird costume all day. I'm fucking tired. Why are we talking colors? I just want to chill. I just want to chill with my lady. And he didn't think to himself, like, I don't know, like, maybe this is a girl who's watched Bachelor her whole life, and here she is having her first one on one. And maybe as a woman, she doesn't want to be, like, shamed away. Like, women are often slut shamed on TV when it's giving. Like, I just want to, like, in a hot tub. And maybe she's trying to make conversation so she can, like, you know, when.

[Mary]

The cameras go personality. She's very quirky, and that is, like, the kind of.

[Nick]

But whatever the reason, he was just like, I'm tired.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So I'm.

[Mary]

I'm too tired to talk about colors, but, like, too tired.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Justin]

In that moment, like, Brian seemed charming in the interview, so. But in that moment, I was like, you don't deserve Paris's rock collection.

[Mary]

Do you guys remember her rock collection and her presentation?

[Justin]

Her presentation. She has her cat.

[Nick]

How is she, too.

[Justin]

Shout out, Paris. Shout out to your cat.

[Mary]

I just. It broke my heart when they were in the bed and she was, like, apologizing for being too much.

[Justin]

I know.

[Nick]

I was like, that's what I'm saying. He's perfect. He's not, you know, he.

[Brian]

He's.

[Mary]

He's making her feel, like, too much.

[Nick]

He obviously is very good at. At stating what he's. His opinions and his conviction. And when he feels right, the person on the receiving end of that righteousness, I think sometimes feels a. You know, I don't.

[Justin]

I don't know if a, like, quirky girl is the girl for Brian.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Well, switching gears to a gentler gentleman, it's time to get to Freddie. Your heart throb from the perfect match. He's up next. And then don't forget, we have Lisa Hochstein. She changed it up on us. We're not entirely sure Hochstein Hochstein. Anyway, according to Lisa, she talks all about her very messy, very public divorce that is after Freddie. You are not going to want to miss it. Don't go anywhere. We're up next. That's Freddy. Audible's romance collection has something to satisfy every side of you when it comes to what romance you're into. Here's your invitation to have it all Here, modern rom coms from authors like Lily Chu and Ali Hazelwood. The latest romanticies series from Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarrow's Regency favorites like Bridgerton and Outlander. Plus all the really steamy stuff. Even outside of romance, Audible is the best place for audiobooks. With thousands of audiobooks, Audible makes it easy to enjoy great stories anytime time. Whether you're commuting, working out or just relaxing. Even with me always on the go, listening with Audible has made it possible to turn those brief in between moments into small getaways with my favorite story. Your first great love story is free when you sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.comv I a l l Again, that's audible.comv I a.

[Freddie]

L L okay, well, if you've been following me at all, you already know my obsession with, you know, wearing sweatpants, wearing comfy clothes, wearing leggings like we're dressing for comfort. And Beyond Yoga is one of those brands that once you try it, you I actually look forward to putting these clothes on. Beyond Yoga is a female founded female led activewear brand that's all about body positivity, comfort and movement. Their stuff is insanely soft. I'm talking about their famous face dye fabric and it works. Whether I'm doing a workout, running errands or just hanging at home, you won't want to take it off. Right now they're launching their new platform called Seek beyond, which is all about growing with confidence, authenticity and joy, not perfection. It really spoke to me because life isn't about looking perfect all the time. It's about feeling good in your body. And Beyond Yoga gets that. This launch is extra cool because Seek beyond launches with an original anthem written and performed by writer, producer, actress and entrepreneur Issa Rae. It celebrates all kinds of movement and all kinds of people. Visit Beyond Yoga.com and access a 20 off welcome offer using code the vile files for a limited time.

[Nick]

Freddie, welcome to the show. Good to be with you.

[Leia]

No, funky for having me.

[Nick]

Yeah, well, it's a pleasure for us, man. We're big fans. I watched you a little bit on Love island uk.

[Leia]

Yeah, on Love Island? Yeah.

[Nick]

Love Island. No, Love is Blind. Sorry, yeah. Would you ever do Love Island?

[Leia]

No, too old for that. Too old?

[Nick]

Are you too old? Are you like officially too old or how old are you?

[Leia]

I don't know, 33, I think I'm too old for that.

[Nick]

Yeah, you're probably, you're. You're probably too old. Well, you have swept the hearts of Americans in a perfect match and obviously Love is Blind uk, you made quite the mark as well. You, you're a fascinating, fascinating character. You have this obviously like good looking guy, very interesting job. How did you end up on reality TV in the first place? I'm always curious about that.

[Leia]

Oh, do you know what? It's weir.

[Nick]

Weird.

[Leia]

So B.

[Brian]

Right.

[Leia]

Honestly, like reality tv. I never thought. Never going to be on reality tv. I thought it's never going to be something I'd even even consider. Basically. I, I had a. I had a difficult breakup and literally I was on, I was on Tick Tock. It was only. This is only like six days after I broke up with this person and I was on TikTok, you know, feeling sorry for myself. I couldn't sleep and an advert came up on TikTok for Love is Blind UK cast now. And I love the show. I thought it's amazing show. I obviously had never been in the UK before, only the us So I just thought, you know what, I'm gonna just apply for it and if I'd known at that moment in time you're gonna go on the show and you know, you're gonna go on this journey and have this wild adventure, like I probably wouldn't have done it but because it was kind of like gradually like one stage to the next and then, then I had, then I had an interview and then I met them and then it was just kind of like one thing after another, another. In the end it was just kind of like, I don't know, I just went for it. Yeah. But that's how I ended up getting on the show. Yeah.

[Nick]

Oh, why do you say you wouldn't have done it?

[Leia]

I just don't think I'm cut out for tv. I just. Yeah, but you know what? Like it was a. I was, I was, I, I wanted to meet my person and I just thought what, what an amazing opportunity if, if it happens. And obviously I was so blessed to kind of be given the opportunity to, to attempt it and. Yeah, I've never looked back, to be honest. Yeah, amazing, fascinating.

[Nick]

And then you also have a very fascinating job. You, you're a mortuary you work in a funeral home?

[Leia]

That's it. Yeah, I'm a funeral director.

[Nick]

Funeral director. So what. What exactly does that entail? Like, how did. First of all, how did you get into that? And then I'd love to understand a little bit.

[Leia]

We've.

[Nick]

We've heard about the job. I haven't heard you explain it or, like, what you do or how you get into it and all those things.

[Leia]

Things.

[Nick]

Because.

[Leia]

Yeah, yeah, of course. So, yeah, my job is really fascinating. Most people are kind of either freaked out by it or sort of want to know more. They want to know everything. They're like, do you believe in. Oh, do you believe in the afterlife? They start, what have you seen? Like, what have you done? So I always get, like, an array of different, like, kind of reactions to my job, but I got into the job just because I just kind of fell into it, to be honest. I'm a passionate person. I'm a compassionate person. I care a lot about people. And it's just something that I knew I could do. I've never really been phased by kind of death or the idea of dying. And I know that's really strange to think about, but it's never really something that's ever sort of phased me. And I knew I could deal with that and I knew that I could look after people. And, yeah, I just thought I'd just go for it. And, yeah, I've been doing that for 10 years. And my job, role. So I do everything. So from the point where the family contact us and say somebody's passed away away until the point the funeral. So absolutely everything. Meet the families, I arrange the funerals, I prepare the deceased, and I conduct the funeral. So I do absolutely everything.

[Nick]

Wow, so you're dealing. Yeah. You're dealing with the. The bodies.

[Leia]

Yeah. Do you know what? It's crazy, you know, because. Yeah, crazy. I. Because I don't. I think that people look at me and they don't realize, like, how involved I am in sort of things that are kind of not really spoken about. And I'm the kind of person, like, I don't take it on board. It doesn't affect me as a person. Like, I can. I can deal with, like, traumatic things, and it. I don't take that home. And I feel very blessed that I'm able to do that. And. Yeah, but it's crazy job. I can't. I have to. I can't lie. It's a crazy job, but I love it and hence why I'm still doing it now. And you know, I've been very blessed in a position that since Love is Blind, I've been given lots of different opportunities, but I still feel like I'll always kind of stay grounded and at my roots where, you know, hopefully I'll do that forever. That job. Yeah.

[Nick]

How did you get into it? Is it like a family business or you just, like, see a. Did you also see a TikTok ad?

[Leia]

Yeah, I just. You know, what I don't ever know is asking it. How did you get into it? Like, and I don't have a. I don't have a specific answer. Like, I say it's just because I knew somebody at the time. To be fair, I did know somebody that worked in the industry. And, yeah, I just thought, oh, that sounds interesting. And, yeah, before you know it, I was there. I've been there 10 years, and like, yeah, just worked my way up.

[Nick]

Wow. So you see, like, a dead body almost every day?

[Leia]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[Nick]

Wow, that's crazy.

[Leia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Multiple. Multiple.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Leia]

Obviously it's not really something to think about it because it's just. It's just work, but each. Each person generally, I'm not just saying this because it's a. You know, it's a podcast, but genuinely, like, each person is that somebody's loved one, and each person is cherished and looked after respectfully and with dignity. And so I don't see it as like, a dead body. It's kind of just like somebody's loved one, somebody that's somebody's mom or somebody's dad, somebody's brother, sister, child. You know, it's just. Yeah, it. I don't see it like that.

[Nick]

And I'm sure you get this. Questions. You. You alluded to it already, but, like, are you, like, are you a religious man or not a religious person? Or, like, how do you. How do you. I mean, you mentioned it doesn't bother you, but, like, how. Yeah, I guess. How do you process all the emotions? Like, you said, you're dealing with someone's loved one. I was recently at the doctor's office, and a doctor's office can be difficult because a doctor on a regular basis sometimes has to deliver bad news, and that can be very, like, draining on. On. On one person. How do you deal with the, like, like, the. The emotional. The emotional heaviness of your job, just knowing that, like, well, it's not affecting you, and you have a job to do and. And you are an empathetic person, but you obviously are seeing people in pain often. How. How do you process that?

[Leia]

Yeah, it's. I think it's. It is really difficult seeing people in pain. And it's not nice to see somebody upset, somebody crying about their loved one. It's. It's not a nice sort of situation to be in. And obviously I witness it all the time, but as I say, it's not my pain. And all I can do is try and support that person, that family, hold their hand and try and guide them through the process and kind of give them the sort of farewell for their loved one that they deserve. So it's. It's kind of like, say, I've said it a couple of times. I feel blessed that I'm able to do that because I know not everyone can. But in terms of sort of like the heaviness of it, you do, no matter what you do, no matter what your job is, you know, you have heavy days. Days. You know, you can be a postman, you have heavy days. You can. You can work in any sort of industry and you can get home and feel stressed. But for me, just my family and I'm very passionate about the gym, so. Yeah, just keeping myself fit and keeping my mental health fit, I guess. Yeah.

[Nick]

Have you always been this jacked? Yeah. Moving on.

[Leia]

Yeah, I think.

[Nick]

Yeah, I've always, like, I'm in. I'm in shape, you know, Like, I'm. I'm. I look, you know, pretty good with my shirt off, but. You got some guns, man. Like you.

[Leia]

Oh, thank you.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Leia]

Yeah. No, it's not. I wouldn't say I've always been jacked. I mean, it's not like I came out the wound and asked for a protein shake. It's just. Yeah, I just. I just. I don't know. I just been working out, very committed to it.

[Nick]

Yeah. Did you play sports growing up? Any. Any athletics?

[Leia]

Football? Soccer? Soccer, yeah. That's it, really. Soccer.

[Nellie]

I was saying, going back to perfect match. How was your experience versus being on Love Is Blind?

[Leia]

Totally different. Love Is Blind is. Is an incredible show. It was amazing to be a part of. But Love is Blind is very heavy. It's. You're talking a lot about your feelings, it's deep conversations, and at the end of. The end of it is marriage. So it's kind of like full on. The meeting your family come into your house. It's like really invasive and very, very, very full on. And I loved it. Like, I loved. I loved the experience. It was incredible. It was an absolute whirlwind. It was a roller coaster of emotions. One day I Was crying my eyes out the next. I was happy. So it's. In comparison to Perfect Match, it's a totally, totally different show. Perfect Match is. I can't believe how kind of left to your own devices you are. Like, literally, it. You kind of. You walk into the house and the producers are just like, right there. You go, do your own thing. And it's just mad. It's like, I can't. My Love is Blind wasn't like that. Like, love is blind is not scripted at all. It's all your own feelings, emotions, your own words. Well, I feel like that is very more kind of like you guided towards sort of maybe the topic of conversation, but not. Not what you talk about, but you might be like, okay, talk about what your future holds, what the kids, etc.

[Nick]

It's heavily structured. Yeah.

[Leia]

Whereas Perfect Match was just sort of. Right, come on, then. Cameras are rolling, and I feel like it surprises me that they managed to get a TV show out of it. There's a lot. There's a lot of drama, don't get me wrong. Like, there's a lot of stuff that's happened that hasn't even been shown. I ain't gonna lie. But, yeah, it surprises me how I. I was. I remember being in it, thinking they're not gonna get much out of this. But, yeah, out.

[Nellie]

I said, what are you guys doing all day? Because I do feel like you are just kind of sitting around a house until you have, like, a challenge or something. Like, what. What is a normal day at the Perfect Match house?

[Leia]

You'll get up, have your breakfast and then kind of be briefed on the day. Right. This is what you're doing. Get ready. We've got a challenge later on. Just a lot of lounge around the car. And then obviously, you look forward to your challenge. And then that's usually there for several hours doing that. So everyone's getting hot and bothered, complaining because the mosquitoes are biting. It's a thing. It's a lot more glamorous on the TV than it was being there, but it was great. It was great.

[Nick]

Freddie, you, obviously, you come across as such a genuine sweet. I think the Internet says you were made by a woman. Something like that.

[Leia]

I don't know.

[Nick]

But truly, like, you know, you. You do come across as a very kind of unique man in the best possible way. And a lot of your peers on Perfect Match fit the mold of a more traditional young man in his 20s. You know, men who, like, for example, have a hard time, you know, not making out with Other women, you know, because they're just like in front of them and things like that. I, you know, for, I guess, like, what is it about you? Or like, why, why do you feel like you're different in that respect? Or are you just are very intentional about like not doing that? Like, what. Why are you so different than some of these other more, you know, your typical kind of cliche men who play the role of the fuck boy very well and things like that. And yeah, why are, why are you so squeaky clean? I guess.

[Leia]

You know what I think? I think it just comes down to sort of like, I don't know, I think that. I think it's down to like, your intentions, like what you're there for. Like, for me, like, I was there to meet a genuine connection and sort of try and establish that with somebody. And obviously I met Madison early on in the show and I was kind of. We were both loyal to each other throughout the process and I didn't have any sort of intentions or sort of stray away or any desire to kind of pursue anything else because I felt like something was good, was kind of developing. But don't get me wrong, like, if I'd met somebody and the connection wasn't as strong as it was with Madison in the early stages, yes, I was, I would have probably kept my options more open and looked at other sort of options. But I know, like, I went on the date with, with Rachel, which was really good, but I just feel like I was already building a connection with Madison. So I was in a very difficult position because, yes, I did enjoy my time with Rachel. I really liked her. I thought she was a very pretty girl. But it's kind of like I was already building something there with Madison and I wanted to kind of, of see what, where that kind of unfolded. You know what I mean?

[Nick]

Let's talk about your connection with Madison. I will. I also watched her on Love is Blind and I had a very, you know, I haven't met Madison in person. I had a very different interpretation of Madison that I had of you, where you come across as someone who's this very calm, like, level headed, empathetic, you know, slow to anger, so to speak. And she, she kind of comes across as, you know, toxic, reactive, you know, kind of holds a vendetta at times. Again, maybe this is all the edit and things like that, but I was shocked kind of by like how you are portrayed on these shows as this really kind and thoughtful person and you paired up with, with Madison who, who again, you know, I. I don't. I haven't met her in person, but seems to have a. I guess, kind of a mean streak. I don't know, but maybe you saw it differently. Like, what was it about Madison that draw you? And I guess, you know, or maybe, like, do you have a type, too? Like, you know, maybe. Maybe you're always drawn to the more kind of like, you know, fiery ones, you know, it's like, so what. What drew you to Madison? And I guess what you're seeing on TV is that the person that you got to know while filming this show.

[Leia]

So. So I'll take. First of all, I didn't. I hadn't seen Madison show Lions. I didn't see any blinds when I first met her. I didn't know who she was. And likewise, she didn't know who I was, who I was evil. So I think it was important that I kind of established the connection and grow to sort of learn about her as a person through my own sort of connections and with her. And, yeah, I feel like had I watched her show first, I might have had a preconception about her, which might have changed my opinion. I don't know. As far as our connection, like, with me, she was amazing and very loyal, Very sort of committed to me. Very loving. Yeah. Like, she was great. However. Yeah, I did. I did see the kind of fiery side of her, and I did. Yeah, I did see that quite a lot. And, yeah. But with me, she was incredible. Like, really nice. And. Yeah, it's difficult. It's difficult because I, I, She. She was never like that with me, so. She was never like that with me.

[Nick]

Okay. All right.

[Leia]

But I did see it. I did. I did see it. And when I did see Love is Blind, it became. She didn't surprise me. But that being said, she was great with me.

[Nick]

Okay, so you actually went back and watched her season after you got back from filming?

[Leia]

Well, her season hadn't aired yet.

[Nick]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Leia]

So her season, we filmed in September. Her season aired in February. But I do remember watching it, and I was a little bit kind of gutted to an extent because, yeah, it's different. It's difficult. But, yeah, I was kind of gutted because I wanted her to come across how she was with me rather than how she is at times with other people, if that makes sense.

[Nick]

Yeah, no, yeah, it totally makes sense.

[Leia]

It's. Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, when it comes to reality tv, if you have different sides of your personality, which most of us do, and there's not a lot of time to show everyone's, like, full. Full personality at times, I think.

[Leia]

Yeah, I think that being said, what I do admire about her is she does always speak from her heart, and if. Whether she's right or wrong, I think she'll always vocalize her opinion, and I think that's, like, you know, a good thing about her. So, yeah. And on Love is Blind, I think she did that. Like, I think she spoke from her heart, and whether she was right or wrong, that's down to sort of own your own personal interpretations of what she's saying. But I think, yeah, I think she does speak my heart, and that's a good thing.

[Nick]

Where were any of the men that you got to know? And obviously, you're a gentleman, so I'm sure you'll choose your words carefully, but you obviously hold yourself to a high standard. Were there any men that you got to know where you were? Just more like, you know, I don't. I don't think I mess with these people outside of the house, so to speak. Or. Or maybe. Maybe. Were there men that you were disappointed that they didn't hold themselves to a higher standard?

[Leia]

I think there's definitely. Okay, so I got on with everyone, first of all. I just want to put it out there that I. I enjoyed everyone's sort of company. All the lads were great. All the girls were great. However, I think it's fair to say that I genuinely wouldn't kind of hang around with most of them outside the. Kind of the. The show. And that's not because I don't get on with them. Like, I think they're great guys, and I would go. If they said, oh, let's go for a beer, of course I'd go with them. Of course I would. But they're not. I wouldn't generally sort of hang around with them, I guess, but that doesn't mean I didn't like them, because I did. They were great guys.

[Nick]

What?

[Leia]

They were definitely certain situations when I kind of maybe observe and think, okay, I wouldn't have done that, or maybe. Maybe that was the wrong thing to do. Yeah, definitely.

[Nick]

Anyone in particular that stood out to you?

[Leia]

I don't want to.

[Nick]

I don't want to.

[Leia]

I think it's clear watching the show. Yeah, I think it's clear watching the show. I don't think I need to kind of elaborate.

[Nick]

All right, all right. We'll assume it's Daniel. Freddie did not say anything. Just. Just. Just me.

[Brian]

I have a question.

[Mary]

So you and Madison seem to have a pretty smooth ride. The whole way through compared to the other coup drama. Did you guys have a conversation about what went down at the boys mixer and kind of your thoughts on the women forgiving their guys so quickly?

[Leia]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, me and. Me and Madison, we spoke every day. We got on really well. We were very open with each other about our intentions and sort of where we saw the relationship going outside the show and kind of where we're up to. So we were always very sort of vocal about that and equally about, like, the other couples as well, like, where we felt the other couples were at. And we never spoke bad of anyone because there was no one to speak bad about. Like, we literally liked every couple, so. But yeah, we definitely spoke about, you know, maybe. Oh, you know, should Sandy have been a bit harsher on leeway for doing that? But yeah, and then, you know, Lisa, should she have kind of maybe I don't made Daniel sleep on the sofa again another night, you know, so, yeah, I think we definitely still spoke about stuff like that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[Nick]

Do you think you're done with reality TV for the time being, or is it possible we could maybe see you?

[Leia]

I don't know. We'll have to see.

[Nick]

Okay, so you're leaving the door open. All right. All right.

[Leia]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Well, Freddie, we appreciate you taking the time, man. You're. You're one of one. We. We really appreciate it, and it's been a. It's a pleasure to have gotten to know you, man.

[Leia]

No, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

[Nick]

All right, take care, buddy.

[Leia]

All right, see you later. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

[Nick]

All right. It's a moment many of you have been waiting for. We're not going to waste any more of your time. And to get right to Lisa because she has a lot to say about this season of Miami and more importantly, about her very public, messy divorce. And that is right now, Audible's romance collection has something to satisfy every side of you when it comes to what romance you're into. Here's your invitation to have it all here. Modern rom coms from authors like Lily Chu and Ali Hazelwood. The latest romantic series from Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarrow's regency favorites like Bridgerton and Outlander. Plus all the really steamy stuff. Even outside of romance, Audible is the best place for audiobooks. With thousands of audiobooks, Audible makes it easy to enjoy great stories anytime. Whether you're commuting, working out, or just relaxing. Even with me always on the go, listening with Audible has made it possible to turn Those brief in between moments into small getaways with my favorite spot story. Your first great love story is free when you sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.com v. Again, that's audible.com v I A L L.

[Freddie]

Okay, well, if you've been following me at all, you already know my obsession with, you know, wearing sweatpants, wearing comfy clothes, wearing leggings like we're dressing for comfort. And Beyond Yoga is one of those brands that once you try it, you get it. I actually look forward to putting these clothes on. Beyond Yoga is a female founded female led activewear brand that's all about body positivity, comfort and movement. Their stuff is insanely soft. I'm talking about their famous face DY fabric. And it works. Whether I'm doing a workout, running errands, or just hanging at home, you won't want to take it off. Right now they're launching their new platform called Seek beyond, which is all about growing with confidence, authenticity and joy, not perfection. It really spoke to me because life isn't about looking perfect all the time. It's about feeling good in your body. And Beyond Yoga gets that. This launch is extra cool because Seek beyond launches with an original anthem written and performed by writer, producer, actress and entrepreneur Issa Rae. It celebrates all kinds of movement and all kinds of people. Visit Beyond Yoga.com and access a 20 off welcome offer using code the vile files for links.

[Nick]

Limited time, of course. He's drinking out of a Chanel mug. You rich person, you.

[Freddie]

He wanted to say rich, but he felt like he could have.

[Nick]

Yeah, I was like, oh, I can't say it.

[Brian]

Yeah, like Amazon. Stop.

[Justin]

That's amazing.

[Nick]

Lisa, welcome to the show. We are honored to have you. This a round of applause for Lisa.

[Freddie]

The legend, the icon.

[Brian]

I've been waiting to do this one.

[Nick]

We've been waiting to have you. So, so just we were, we're hoping to have you in person. I know you are very busy and you have a lot of things going on. You just filmed the reunion. It's also, I think you're dealing with some legal stuff at the moment and seems like always we are still very happy to be with you and happy that you are able to take the time because, well, one, we just want to use this time to get to know you, Lisa the housewife, a little bit better. And then obviously you have a lot going on in your life right now that people are very into, very interested, a lot of, of like behind the scenes. Like obviously, you know, we, we want to Know more about you. So let's just kick it off. Anything you want to share with us before we start? Like, what's going on in your life? Like, what was on your mind as you woke up this morning?

[Brian]

I always have a million things on my mind, so I don't know if. Where do you want to start? It's like. It's like a. Like a roller coaster.

[Nick]

Well, let's start with being a. Just a girl from Toronto, Canada. How did you end up on the beaches of Miami to become an iconic house housewife?

[Brian]

Well, I had no intention of ever moving to Miami. The goal was to live in Los Angeles. I had. I had acquired my O1 visa, which I, you know, took a long time to get. I don't know if you know what that is, but it's basically an extraordinary ability for what my. What I was in acting and modeling, so I got that visa and I happened to meet my ex at a pool party in Las Vegas.

[Freddie]

As one does.

[Nick]

Are we. When you say X, are we talking Lenny?

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Leia]

Are we.

[Nick]

Are we just not using?

[Brian]

He is what brought me to Miami. It was Lenny. If it wasn't for Lenny, I would not be in Miami. Probably maybe now.

[Nick]

At least he was good for something. Yeah, he was good for that.

[Brian]

Yeah, I guess. And my kids.

[Nellie]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Nick]

So. So Lenny brought you to Miami. You met at a pool party. What was his opening line?

[Brian]

You know, I don't remember even meeting him at the pool party. He later Messaged me or DMed me on. What was that? My MySpace.

[Nick]

Wow.

[Brian]

So vintage. Very vintage. I had, like, really cool MySpace page. Of course you did.

[Nick]

Who is your top friend?

[Brian]

I was promoting my modeling, and we got to pick the song and the music in the background. It was, you know, what was the song? I don't. You had. You could change the music all the time and you can make like. Like different backdrops and. Yeah, really fun.

[Nick]

I spent most of my time in my accounting days when I was an accountant in a different life, like, updating my MySpace.

[Justin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

That was mostly ranking friends, changing my music.

[Brian]

Yeah, it kept you busy.

[Nick]

I learned how to code back then. Yeah.

[Brian]

You could have a ten friend top eight.

[Nick]

You could change it, actually.

[Brian]

Top eight.

[Nick]

Yeah, you could. You could change it to just a top friend.

[Brian]

It was fun. And then I got this. I remember that. Some Tila Tequila. She was like the big, you know, the big face of MySpace.

[Nellie]

Yes.

[Brian]

Remember that one? Yeah. And so Lenny. Lenny messaged me and it was something like, you know, what would it take you to Come out to Miami. I ignored it. I was like, what's this? You know, I got a lot of creepy messages. It wasn't that creepy, but I ignored it. And then later a mutual friend said, why don't we go to Miami for Halloween? I said, sure. And then I was set up. But somehow it became a blind date with my ex. We could get. That's like too much time. So went on this blind date and went to the Halloween party. And then I remember the mutual friend saying, one day this could all be yours. And I was laughing at that. That was funny. And then, and then it was. Until it wasn't.

[Freddie]

Well, I mean, looking. Looking back at your life, like you being in Toronto looking back, did you ever imagine your life. Life as what it is now?

[Brian]

I really didn't know what. Where my life was going to. Going to take me. I just knew I wanted to be an actress and I wanted to live in LA and, you know, be on a soap opera. And I. I guess that's where I am, honestly.

[Nellie]

You are on a soap opera.

[Brian]

You've made it.

[Nick]

What if. If you could have acted on any soap opera, what would have been your soap opera of choice?

[Brian]

My mom loved Young and the Restless and the Bold and the Beautiful. I so much so that I actually Lear how to play the Young and the Restless song. No way. I would play that for the. I played that for a recital and my mom just loved it. And she would always ask me to play it for her. It was like.

[Justin]

Did you ever meet Eileen from Young and the Restless from Beverly Hills?

[Brian]

No, I've never met.

[Justin]

Oh, yeah.

[Brian]

No.

[Nick]

So, well, let's see. Should we just dive into the. All things Divorce and Lenny and then we'll get in. We'll just move on from. Should we just dive into Lenny?

[Brian]

Enough of this small talk.

[Nellie]

Yeah, give us the tea, Lisa.

[Nick]

So when did it. When did it all go wrong? Was there a turning point in the. In the marriage where you felt like, you know, this is not what I thought I signed up for. This isn't the man that I thought I married. Was there. Or was it just kind of a gradual, you know, crumbling of the marriage?

[Brian]

Well, there was an incident, and I did speak about it in season five. That happened before my son was born, obviously, where we all almost. We were separated for all maybe a month and a half. We were separated and I was. But I was still in the house. He. I found out. He. I found. I caught him cheating with. I'm not. I don't want to give this person any Time. Because you know these. Yeah. Don't know.

[Nick]

You caught him cheating with a loser.

[Brian]

Did I say loser?

[Nick]

No, I did.

[Brian]

He is.

[Nick]

Yeah. I'm saying we don't want to give him, we're just going to call them losers. Yeah, yeah, I said it.

[Brian]

Yeah. They're all. If you're, if you're going to go after a married man, you're a loser.

[Nick]

Period.

[Brian]

Period. I don't, I don't like cheaters and I don't like. Yeah, they're just bad people and I wouldn't want to do business with them. I don't want to be friends with them. I don't want to have anything to do with cheaters. I don't know why I got back together with my ex, but again, I had my kids, so there's that.

[Freddie]

So this was after the birth of your son that you caught him cheating?

[Brian]

No, the first time, the first time that I, when I caught him was before it was around, you know, funny thing. It was around a Halloween party. That's when he started this thing. Okay. The, the infamous Halloween parties that I, I hated. I hated because they were just full of, it was like, like a, like speed dating maybe for him, now that I look back on it, you know.

[Nellie]

Just a bevy of half dressed women.

[Brian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I look, I'm not a prude. I like parties and I, you know, I met him also at the Halloween party. Wow. Huh?

[Nellie]

The patterns.

[Brian]

The Halloween parties are the problem. Yeah. So the Halloween parties are the problem. And they just became more and more and more of a problem because there was always communication with single women on Instagram. Inappropriate. I didn't like it. I, I felt like the crazy one because I would say I don't like, would lead to huge fights between him and I and he really made me feel crazy. Like I, like I was wrong. That, that, that's not normal for me to not be okay with him having friends. He's like, they're just friends. I'm like, no, no, no, no. You shouldn't have like single women friends that are in their 20s. Nope.

[Nick]

Was he pretending like, like, like a photographer who pretends he's like, I'm just a photographer and I want to shoot you or whatever. And like, was he like offering like plastic surgery advice? Was he like saying, like, what was he saying was the origins of these friendships or is he just like, oh, we're just friends?

[Brian]

It was starting off, that's what it started off as. The in invite to the Halloween party. It was always about The Halloween party. The Halloween party is a big part of what led to a divorce.

[Freddie]

Okay, so how did you catch him cheating? You saw it on his phone.

[Brian]

You, like the first time, which was in 2013. Yeah, I saw it on his Instagram. Instagram. I have. You know, I like, Snoop sometimes. Sure, why not? And, like, I think we all do a little bit. You know, his computer was open, and I looked and I see this message from this. This woman. And I'm like, that's odd. And then. Then I somehow was able to get his password for his icloud. Like, imessage. So I had that. And then. Then I found out and I confronted him. What did he say? And, yeah, then he. Then he finally admitted it and wanted a divorce and said he didn't love me. And I remember falling to the ground. Like. Falling to the ground? Yeah.

[Nick]

So Lenny has reportedly denied having an affair, saying that you were living separate lives for months, but he was caught on a hot mic telling a friend. Friend that you didn't know and that no one knew about it. What was your reaction to that?

[Brian]

Well, I already had. You know, this is a. How many months later. And I was told by the production that I'm going to see something and I'm not going to love it. But I was told, you know, last minute, because apparently they discovered this footage, you know, late into the editing. Editing. So I actually, I was with Jodi when I watched it, and I was at my. The house, the old house, Star island house. And when I saw it, I was. I was in tears still, because, look, it was still fresh. Even though I would have Jody beside me, even he was feeling terrible for me to see that. To see him say that while we're having a good vibes. It was a good vibes party, and I didn't think anything was wrong. I was having. Having. I look back at those photos and that footage, and I was having a great time. I was dancing with my daughter. It was smiles. I was taking photos with Lenny. No idea that that's what he. That's what was going on. And speaking to a mutual friend about him having a whole other relationship and wanting to leave me and that he couldn't be with me because it would be cheating on the one that he really wants. Wanted all of that while my son is sitting, like, you know, in the other room. It was. It was really, really upsetting. It was really devastating. It was heartbreaking. It was like a, you know, another stab in the. In the chest.

[Nick]

Did you address him directly about it?

[Brian]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

What did. What did he say?

[Brian]

He's like, I don't know, like, in denial about it. Like, oh, that was editing. Or. I mean, how. How can they. They're not. They're not going to edit that. They literally found. Found that footage. Even Matt Anderson, our producer, recently went on a podcast, and he spoke about finding that footage and how he felt about that finding. Finding that footage that wasn't found in the beginning. They somehow found it. And you can't just make it up, no matter what. Even if it was in a different, you know, scene, he still said that. Right. To a mutual friend. And it is what it is. It's.

[Nick]

Did he ever own up to you about having an affair or cheating on you?

[Brian]

No, no, no, no. He wouldn't. He would never. He never would say anything negative about himself. Right. Why would he? Yeah.

[Nick]

So he's never like. Has he ever apologized ever for anything?

[Brian]

Nothing.

[Nick]

Not even nothing.

[Brian]

Just so you understand what I'm dealing with. Not one thing. In fact, he doubles down on things.

[Freddie]

Well, going back to the. The first. I mean, the first instance where you called bottom cheating. I mean, y' all obviously worked through that. You then had two beautiful children. I mean, how were you able to move on from that?

[Brian]

I don't think I ever moved on. That's really. That's something really difficult to. To. To lose trust is really hard to get back in a relationship like that. And it was so embarrassing. It wasn't so public, but all of Miami knew, like, people, that Miami is a small town. It's a small place. Right. And everybody knew we were like the laughing stock of Miami. And then now, on a much bigger scale. Was I embarrassed when the show came back? Obviously.

[Nick]

Because obviously, also, you're choosing to get back together with him and forgiving him for something you believe happened, but he's never admitted to it happening. So how. Yeah, that must have been a challenge to even try to move forward, because you're still to going kind of. You're both kind of living this lie. You're kind of. You have to choose to forgive someone who's never acknowledged or apologized for the very thing that hurt you. And he's still denying that it ever happened, even though deep down you believe it to be true.

[Brian]

Yeah. He says that the. That first time that nobody ever slept together, which I don't believe for a second. Like, it's. You know, I don't. I don't believe that. But that's what. That's what he. He stuck. That's what he said. And that's what he will continue to say, but I feel otherwise. And it's. It's pretty clear. They went to Vegas. These two. These. I don't know. They went to Vegas. There was like, a shopping spree. The person was rubbing into my face, like, harassing us for years. It was like a whole thing.

[Nick]

So. Yeah, so, like, his ex was harassing you?

[Brian]

Like, I wouldn't say it was an ex. It was like. Like a fling or whatever that lasted up to. For about a month. Month. And then he, all of a sudden when I, I guess, took off my ring and people knew and I. I think I posted a photo, like a. You know, something without my. Without my ring, and it kind of went somewhere. But, you know, Instagram wasn't really a thing in 2013. Yeah. Yeah. And then that's when he kind of came back and he. And he asked for me to come back and he posted this thing with us, our. Our wedding photo on his Instagram. That was like his big apology to, like, what had happened. And he let me have his Instagram account and password, and that was, like, his way to maybe solve the problem. It didn't solve it, though. Like, it, you know, actually probably made it worse because I was always checking and maybe things and making a bigger deal out of things.

[Nellie]

Um, I think I remember maybe it was season four or season five that there was a point where your marriage was kind of falling apart and you guys were trying to sit down at a table and, like, he was g. You nothing. And I was just wondering, do you find that there was a lot of pressure on you with filming, like, with him to try to present as a happy family, with knowing everything that you were going through or, like, why would you still want to film with Lenny?

[Brian]

That's what a lot of people caught. But for me, I was so used to this behavior. I'm. I just thought, like, this is him being him until I saw the footage for myself and I'm like, well, that doesn't look. That doesn't look great. Right? I don't like how he's treating. I don't like how he's talking to me, how he's dismissing. But in the moment, it just felt like our normal. Our. Our normal banter. And sadly, that's. That's what I was used to for years.

[Nick]

Looking back, how do you. Do you ever, like, think about moments and watching those scenes back, seeing how he treated you? How would you have wanted to do things differently if you could do them differently with.

[Brian]

In terms of our marriage or in Terms of like the show, like what I get.

[Nick]

Yeah. More about the marriage, just. Yeah. More your personal life.

[Brian]

Look, I tried to go to therapy. He wasn't into it. He didn't believe in therapy. We tried to do therapy with the LA when the last thing happened, 2013, and I just gave up. And I remember the therapist telling me, like, this is who he is. Yeah, you're gonna have to deal with this type of behavior. And I was in love and I wanted to have the family we were trying so hard to have. Have so. And you know, I already invested so much of my time. I moved my whole life there. Um, I felt like he was genuinely sorry and I figured, you know, it's Miami. This stuff happens all the time, you know. But I wish I stood up from. I wish I stood up for myself. I wish that I didn't let him tell me what was normal because my instincts were telling me this wasn't normal.

[Leia]

Normal.

[Brian]

This is not how a marriage is supposed to be. Just because we live in Miami. Men aren't supposed to behave this way. Men aren't supposed to be having these kind of secret conversations with single women on Instagram, Instagram, models, whatever. It was, you know, all this stuff was so inappropriate. I felt it. I knew it. But I was. I felt crazy. He made me feel crazy. And I wish that I stood up for myself. But then I always go back to, okay, but if I did that, then I wouldn't have my kids. And I'm very grateful to have my kids. So I feel like, yes, everything happens for a reason, but I'm happy I'm out of it now.

[Freddie]

Did your relationship change after you had your children?

[Brian]

It was. I mean, when we had Logan, it was like amazing. You know, we were so overjoyed. And Elle, same thing. But things were a little different, I think, because we were in with Elle, because we were in the Star island house. And I remember having Elle and wanting to just have like all of this time with our, with our family, bonding with Elle. Cause we just, you know, brought her home. And then he wanted to have a bunch of people over and he wanted to have a football party. And I wouldn't typically have a problem with that. The reason, reason we got in this big fight is because it was a bunch of promoters. There's nothing wrong with promoters. Okay. But there was a bunch of promoters and like young 20 something year old girls all over the house and I have my newborn daughter upstairs. Yeah. So I just remember getting livid and going downstairs with my baby and just looking at everyone. Like, why are you here? Rightfully so. Yeah.

[Nick]

Oh, I couldn't imagine, like, having. We have a young daughter ourselves. I couldn't imagine our having our one and a half year old at home and me throwing an influencer party while my wife is.

[Brian]

I took a photo that day of all of these girls around the pool. Like, I wanted to go downstairs and just sit by the pool with Elle and have him enjoy this blessing, this new, amazing, amazing person in our family. And he was really upset that I was angry because he really wanted to have that party. And again, I felt he made me feel crazy for getting upset that all of these random women were like, okay, have a. Have a party for football. But why does it have to be all of these people and strangers?

[Nick]

You were probably like, I bet none of these girls can tell me the score, you know?

[Brian]

None. Yeah.

[Freddie]

It's also like, you're all. You're. You know, you bring home a newborn baby from the hospital.

[Brian]

Hospital.

[Freddie]

You're already like, they don't need to be around other people. You know, they're so fresh and germs.

[Brian]

Germs.

[Freddie]

And then he's like, no, here's a bunch of strangers that, like, I've never met and definitely, like, aren't going to be a part of our daughter's life. Like, definitely aren't important. Like, sure, let's have them around our.

[Nick]

He definitely invited gonorrhea and chlamydia over.

[Brian]

Crazy. I'm.

[Mary]

That.

[Freddie]

That's. It's crazy that he made you feel crazy at that moment, because you had every right.

[Brian]

I mean, I mean, and I think he had enablers around him or like flying monkeys all around him where they would say, yeah, bro, like, she's crazy. You know what? Your wife is such a. You know what I mean? Like, these are the type of people that were around him. There were. None of them were married.

[Freddie]

Red flag.

[Brian]

Red flag.

[Nick]

You heard one of his friends call you a. To him.

[Brian]

He would tell me that. He's like, oh, all my friends think you're a bitch. Because I was mad that. That there was all these parties with a bunch of single girls in their 20s that I had nothing in common with, and neither did he. And it's fine, okay? Like, I'm not a prude. It's fine to. To have people over. So I guess the guy. Single guy, friends can have something crazy now.

[Freddie]

That's weird as f. It's not fine.

[Brian]

You know, I don't. You see, I'm still making excuses.

[Nick]

No, no. It's like, yeah, you can still.

[Brian]

I literally felt like, thank you for, you know, like, I'm. I'm actually happy. This is therapeutic. Because all these years and up until, like, three years ago, four years ago, like, I was made to feel like maybe this is my fault. It's. I'm the. I'm wrong, because I was angry that he wanted to have friends or just friends. Lisa.

[Nellie]

Like, his friends were freeloaders sending the.

[Brian]

Wrong message to these women. When you're inviting them over, asking them if they want to have a. If you. He actually asked one of them if he could throw her. Her birthday party and if I could help plan it. Like, absolutely. What the hell?

[Nellie]

This is what I'm saying. My friends are freeloaders, and they're mad because the wife is blocking from them getting laid, from drinking your alcohol, from hanging out at Star island at your house.

[Nick]

Lisa, you deserve a man who worships the ground that you walk on.

[Justin]

Absolutely.

[Nick]

And you know, you deserve, like, his only response should have been when you were having. Having his beautiful children should have been like, what do you need? How can I serve you? How can I make you happy? Are you comfortable? Are you relaxed? How can I eliminate stress from your life? That should have been his only job at that time in your life.

[Freddie]

Yeah, but clearly he had other plans.

[Nick]

Oh, my God. Now. So, like, looking back and, you know, we have obviously a lot of women, a lot of young women listening to this episode, you know, what would you tell your younger self? Because, like, sadly, like, as much as we're all, like, holy, I can't. I can't believe you had to go through this. Like, sadly, there are, like, relationships out there and men who find this behavior to be normal or, like, this type of kind of gaslighting behavior. So what are the signs that you would have told younger you? If there's a young woman out there who maybe, like, they're. They're listening to you talk, and she's like, my boyfriend throws parties for models, too. What would you. What would you say to your younger self or to the young lady who's watching or listening to this episode? Episode? What are some signs to look out for?

[Mary]

Thank you.

[Brian]

You are not sorry. You are not crazy. Even the men that try to justify following a bunch of Instagram models publicly at that. I mean, go do it on your burner account. Maybe even that is better than the public liking the public communicating the dming, all of that. That is not a. Okay, red flag. And if you see that behavior, run for your life, because it's not going to get any better, it's going to get worse. They are going to cheat on you, and your marriage is going to end up in divorce. So run, run, run, run. And that's what I would tell my. My daughter. Don't let your dust, like someone's dusty son come around and, you know, love bomb you with things. And, you know, that's. That's also a red flag, the love bomb bombing the, you know, promise of a life. And like, first of all, number one, red flag if they're already married. Let's talk about that then. And they have two kids, especially one that's just born. That's probably not the man for you. Yeah. You know, like, the ones. So, yeah, like, all of that.

[Freddie]

How have you navigated with your children? Obviously, like, children are sponges. They pay attention to everything, and they have. Have this father who doesn't treat their mother with any ounce of respect. I mean, how are you? You must be working overtime to, like, show your children what true love is and, like, how to actually treat a partner.

[Brian]

Well, my kids see that. I don't know. I really don't know what's fully going on, only from what my children tell me. Logan is very smart. Elle is. My kids are so smart, just like everyone says. But my kids are. It blows my mind, the things that come out of their mouth. They're listening to everything. They see everything. They probably read things online, which. Which sucks. You know, like, our divorce was so public. I don't know. One of the worst divorces I. I've ever seen. And it's mine. You know what I mean? Like, play out in the public. Somebody compared our divorce once, and I'll never forget it, to, like, Donald Trump and Ivanka Trump's crazy divorce, because it was just so. It was just all over the media. So that really hurts me from my kids. And look, even now I'm like, oh, I'm so, You know, but it's. It's out there. It's out there. And, yeah, I'm kind of biting my tongue now because I'm just, you know, I'm talking about them seeing stuff, but it. It's. It's hard because they're going to see it. Well, they're going to Google themselves. They're going to see, you know, Hochstein. They're going to Google and they're going to see everything.

[Freddie]

But what's unfortunate about it is, like, you can only tell what has happened to you, what you've lived through, what you've had to survive. It's unfortunately, their father, who's made a lot of poor decisions and have ch. And as he chose to treat their mother with such a disrespect, respect that, like, that's. That's a conversation he's gonna have to have with them. Like, you can walk and hold your head high, knowing that, like, you've had the most respect for yourself and for your children and, like, have tried to handle this with as much grace as possible, but, like, it's hard when he's putting you in these situations that he's putting you in.

[Brian]

Not only that, I. I really tried to. As you know, everybody knows I stayed clear of all the podcasts. Everybody wanted me on their podcast in the beginning stages of all of this. And I always said no, I wasn't ready to. To talk about it. I was contractually. And it was my job to be on my show and to talk about my real life. Right. So I couldn't get out of that one. And I'm happy I did because it showed my side and it. And it definitely leveled the playing field. You know, imagine I didn't have that. My sights. What. I don't know what I would have. What I would have done without the show, you know? Yeah, the producers were very, very, very supportive of what was happening to me. And all the, you know, the women were very supportive, too. All. Everybody was. So. To have that really, really helped me because maybe it stopped him from doing. Doing worse things because I did have this platform. Yeah.

[Nellie]

There's a record of, like, what you went through. And honestly, I think it was season six last was, like, the one during your divorce. And I feel like that was really hard to watch because you're literally just, like, doing the best you can and this guy is just throwing grenades at you left and right. And then it's like you have the women where I was like, who was the most supportive friend out of the cast for you during your divorce? Cause it kind of felt like you were on your own there for a bit.

[Brian]

Well, we're. Well, you know, we're not in a great place now. But I do have to say that Larsa was really there for me. Yeah. And, you know, I missed that. But things. Things are not so great this year. We'll get into that later. But she was. She was really there for me.

[Nick]

Your ex, Lenny, you've. You've mentioned a few times publicly that he's a bit of retaliatory in terms of controlling funds and kind of getting back at you and trying to pun for whatever he thinks you're doing wrong. Is he still making your life miserable or is he still very retaliatory? And I guess, how do you try to navigate, you know, just even doing this interview, like speaking up for yourself and trying to get the truth out there versus having to live in fear with your ex and how he might respond to you speaking up honestly about your situation?

[Brian]

Well, you know what? All I say is the truth. So I. I'm not afraid to speak the truth is when you lie, you have a problem. Things were getting better once, him and his. His ex fiance, when they finally broke up. Even the first time they broke up, there were less articles coming out, if you know what I mean, because this one was really trying to make a name for herself. I think that she used my family, my kids, the show, to gain fame, notoriety, but it didn't work out. And I think after three years, seeing that she wasn't being received by anyone in a. In a positive light at all, she wasn't becoming this big famous model that she thought she was going to be, or I heard someone say, allegedly, that she wanted to be the new Queen of Miami, which I've never even called myself the Queen of Miami, you know? Please. There was a lot of issues, more issues when they were together, because I feel that she was inserting herself so much into our divorce that it made it 10 times worse. And then it got a little bit easier, and I don't know, now it's not again. So it's a lot of up and down with this man. Um, it's not great right now for sure.

[Nick]

Is that because he has a new girlfriend? Is he. Is that true? Is he dating someone?

[Brian]

Yeah, he has a new girlfriend, so I just don't think he's a happy person.

[Nick]

How long did you find out about his relationship with his ex fiance before it went public? How long did you know before everyone else knew?

[Brian]

Oh, she was quick to get it out there. Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Brian]

Because I remember it was April 27th, 7th, 2022. I remember all the dates that are like, meaningful, significant dates. It was that date is the day he told me he wants a divorce. And that day I knew that something bad was happening. Like, this was. This wasn't a joke. This wasn't a test run. This was actually happening. I actually, two months before that, received a DM from a follower fan, I guess. And she said, said, I AM so sorry, Ms. Mrs. Hochstein, I just saw your husband at this building, which turned out to be her building she was living in at that time. And he was with this tall, young, skinny model, and they were all over each other, whatever. And I was actually at a wedding solo. Cause he didn't want to go with me because I guess this is what he was doing. And on the way back from Palm beach, it's a long drive, I called him. I'm like, what. What am I. What am I. See what's going on? Why are you at this building? Who is this girl? And it's not like this, like, building. You would think somebody would have this great after party. It was just a normal building in. In Brickell or wherever. Wherever it was. And he said, oh, no, it was just like an after party. And I'm like, well, you should have been at the wedding with me, but whatever. And then turns out that that is her building. So it turns out that he was with her even months ago.

[Freddie]

Not till, like, judge lifestyles or anything like that. But why is a man in his late 40s, early 50s, with two children at home and a wife at a wedding going to after parties?

[Brian]

He's almost 60, by the way. Oh, he's almost 60.

[Freddie]

Even better.

[Justin]

Sorry.

[Freddie]

Yeah. Why does he feel like after parties was a priority in his life?

[Brian]

Well, I mean, why were Halloween parties a priority?

[Freddie]

He liked to party.

[Brian]

That should have been not a priority when you got. You need to go through change. People go through changes in life. And, like, look, that was maybe what we wanted to do when we first met, but then you have a family and things should change naturally. The groups of friends, you know, like I want. I was gravitated towards friends, like friends that had families, and he didn't want that. So we were really kind of like. I guess now that I'm saying it out loud, yeah, those were the issues, you know, like, I was. Wanted a. A family life. I wanted to be with my kids and go on vacations with, like, minded people, you know, like maybe parents. Fun parents, not whatever. He just didn't think parents were fun with kids. I'm like, well, some of them are. You know, we're fun. Like, so why there? Maybe there's other fun parents.

[Nick]

I mean, if you like being around your kids, they can be fun.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah. Do you think. Do you think Lenny's a good dad?

[Brian]

I don't.

[Nick]

Okay, moving on. All right. Is it difficult? Or do any of his new girlfriends or ex. Fiance. Do they try being stepmoms or anything like that? Is that kind of weird or, you know, how. How do you. How do you handle that?

[Brian]

Yeah, the last one tried. Tried so hard. And Tried to rub it in my face and I think that's disgusting. And then of course, quickly the mask, you know, fell off. You know, you can only put up that performance. You can only be so performative for so long. You know, I don't, I don't think she thought she was going to be the girlfriend or fiance for that long, you know. And then the mask fell off because like how, how can you play this game when you really don't give a shit about my kids or their well being? I was actually, you know, worried about the kids with her around. I was afraid so certain things happened. I won't even repeat it, but there were things that happened that were very concerning that the kids were telling me and her friends were telling me, oh no.

[Nick]

And is it safe to say, like you guys completely 100% over, no going back? This is a relationship that will never ever happen again. That's. Is that safe to say?

[Brian]

Oh, romantically. Never ever. Just want to make sure, you know, I, I really had hopes of us one day. I'm like, you know, time will pass. Maybe one day we could be friends. Like, maybe, you know, like my boyfriend's ex wife and her, her husband, I love them. We go on ski trips together with our kids. You know, I invite them over for Christmas, for Thanksgiving. All of that. It's, it's so beautiful. And I really wish that, that I was hoping that one day Lenny and I, and not the last girl she was. That would never happen. But even maybe the new, maybe she has a new one. I was like, I don't know, maybe it could work out. But he's showing me that that might never happen. And that's really sad because the hate for me is. Where is that coming from? Why, why is there so much hate for me? When you did what you, what he did to me and to us publicly, you know, like it could have been handled so differently and then we wouldn't be in this predicament. Like I wanted, wanted to even help him during times when the business maybe wasn't doing well. Like things like that I really want. I was like, how can I help? Would you come on the show? And then, you know, maybe we could come together and it would be great for everybody. For yourself, for business, for the kids. Like let's, let's show, show that. And there were times where he was like maybe. And then it was like, no. And I don't know if he was influenced by the then fiance. I don't know. But there were times I was trying to help Like, I really wanted to help. I really bit my tongue. I. I wanted to help.

[Nick]

Yeah. Do you sound like one of the most understanding, chill ex wives ever?

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Like, you're so nice.

[Brian]

Well, thank you. I. I mean, I. I feel like I'm more chill than ever. I, for sure, in the beginning of this was not chill. I was the opposite of chill.

[Mary]

You were hurt.

[Brian]

Very. I mean, I. I was a. I'm. I'm finally, I think, getting back to my original self, to my, like, to who I am. And I'm really. I did. There's a lot of work that came along with that. Therapy, Jody, Alex, like, you know, my kids, like, everything just tomorrow. But it took a long time to get here, for sure.

[Nellie]

I have a question. Kind of. Kind of a diss. But I just noticed that you were 24 when you met Lenny, and he was in his 40s, and then, like, all of his fiance's or ex girlfriends now are also in their 20s. As he's getting older, I'm like, do you think he was having a midlife crisis when he met you? Or, like, is he just ever gonna grow out of this?

[Brian]

I know that he really, really. When he met me, I know he always wanted children. Like, he really did want kids. I wanted kids. And he was having really bad luck finding someone that he wanted to, you know, be with and have kids with, you know, 16 years is not that bad. I don't think, like, even Nick and.

[Freddie]

I are 18 years.

[Brian]

So.

[Freddie]

Yeah, you're. You're in good company.

[Brian]

Yeah. So, you know, I didn't think that was that bad. And then. Then he goes with somebody that's, like, dry. He said he would never do that. And then he's with somebody. What is it, 30 years? And now it's. What are the. What is it now? The one now is, like, 25.

[Nellie]

25.

[Brian]

So, yeah, it's just. Yeah, I think it's. I think it's maybe a midlife crisis. And I also think that younger women are easier to manipulate and control, and new and shiny things are more impressive to, you know, somebody who's 25, maybe.

[Nellie]

Still want to party or after party.

[Brian]

With him at 60.

[Nick]

Speaking of new and shiny things, are his abs surgically enhanced?

[Brian]

I mean, I don't know.

[Nick]

Period, Period.

[Brian]

I think. I think he's on this big health kick, you know, and he was on this health, too, when he met the. When he. Well, when he started the new relationship, which I had no idea because I was like, wow, he's really working out. And I was Saying, I'm like, wow, guys, like, Lenny is looking so good. I was so in love with him, you know, I really was. And no one understood why. None of my friends understood why. I love. I loved this man, but I loved him. I thought it was forever. I'd never thought of divorce. I always thought, we're. We're going to be together until, like, I'm going to be pushing him around in a. In a wheelchair, changing his diapers one day. I don't know.

[Freddie]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Because I even, like, we. Our age difference was enough. I was like, oh, where's he going to go? Yeah, but clear.

[Nick]

I want to switch gears a little bit to the current season, and I want to go back to the red flags game. Why were all the women still, like, picking you for the biggest red flag? And how do you feel about that?

[Brian]

Okay, so I think that I walked into that one by being late that. That day, you know, and they needed. Look, they needed somebody to put the red flags into, right? And then pile in on. But I think me being late, I was an easy target, first of all, like, oh, well, everyone's mad at her anyway, so let's just all gang up on her. But the thing is, I literally just came back from saying goodbye to my father in Toronto, so I was really disturbed. Disturbed by all the red flags and the lack of support and the lack of empathy and the lack of even saying, hey, how. How you doing? You know, you just buried your dad or you. How's. How's it going? How do you feel? Because I really didn't get that from anybody. Just. Just Adriana, honestly, at that time. And I also think that narcissism is something that's diagnosed. It's like a real thing that needs to be diagnosed by. Oh, yeah, and Gertie was there for me, but it needs to be diagnosed by a clinical therapist. And this word is, like, thrown around so loosely. And they all have these tendencies, and some of them, I think, might. Might even have it. You know, I'm not gonna say who, but I think some of them might because they all show this. We all show, like, characteristics, all of us. Like, we're all on Instagram, we're all on tv. You know it. There's a lot of red flags that should have been put in their cups, but they didn't want to take accountability, so I was the target. And I thought that was very unfair, and I thought it was terrible timing. And for me, if I knew my friend had just lost her dad, I would have gave. Given them a Big hug. And instead of having a narcissist party for them, I would have had a, you know, celebration of life for their. For their family. Yeah.

[Freddie]

Why do you feel like you and Larsa are struggling so much right now?

[Nick]

Oof.

[Brian]

There's so much to dive into on that one. But it started before filming, I would say. Okay.

[Nick]

Is it safe to say it's still going on?

[Brian]

Yeah. And then I guess you'll have to. You'll have to see in the reunion, like, a lot is revealed about all of this in the reunion that we just filmed.

[Leia]

Okay.

[Brian]

And I'm pretty sure we're going to get three. Three parts of this reunion because hopefully because it was a doozy. I mean, I don't get shocked anymore by a lot of things, but I'm speechless. In some of the things that are going to be revealed in this reunion. It's bad.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Brian]

It's like some people. I don't know if some people can come back from it, like, okay, yeah. But I'm hope. I. I am hopeful that Lars and I can repair our relationship because she was there for me. Look, she was there for me when I was going through that.

[Freddie]

But was she there for you with your dad dying?

[Brian]

No. No. That's unfortunate.

[Nick]

Speaking of people being mad about the reunion, a lot of fans were. Seemed to be frustrated that Stephanie got a seat next to Andy in the infamous seating chart. Can you confirm a. That Stephanie was in fact sitting next to Andy? And how did you feel about that?

[Brian]

Yeah, I can confirm it because it was. The seating chart was released by Bravo. Yeah, yeah, it was on their. On their website. There were a lot of opinions about that one.

[Nick]

What did you think about it?

[Brian]

They weren't good. They weren't pro. Stephanie. For me, I didn't care. Like, look, if you're. I was just happy to be second seat. I'm first or second, which I am usually first or second. And I don't think I've ever been third.

[Nellie]

That's right, Lisa, let's go.

[Justin]

Exactly.

[Brian]

I'm always first or second, so I was like, yeah, whatever. Honestly, the second seat is a lot less pressure than the first seat.

[Nellie]

You and Stephanie. Stephanie kind of got into it for the narcissism party. What was your take on her joining the cast and, like, what's your relationship?

[Brian]

I have a good relationship with Stephanie. I think she's funny. And I would catch her profile and I would say, huh? She'd make a good housewife, actually. I used to say that. And now that she's here she. She does add a lot, you know, like, she has the lifestyle, the fashion. She's feisty. She's very opinionated. She was a little too opinionated for my liking that first day I met her, but we fixed that real quick. I checked her also. Yes, you did check me. I checked her back.

[Justin]

Uhhuh.

[Nellie]

And then y' all called the truce.

[Brian]

We've been fine.

[Freddie]

Did you check in with Larsa after her PRP allergic reaction?

[Brian]

I didn't want to touch that one. Okay. I didn't want to go there. And she unfollowed me too, so I. I unfollowed her. She unfollowed me like a couple weeks ago, I guess.

[Freddie]

And Kiki's unblocking Gertie. I mean, there's just some.

[Brian]

I saw that. I don't. I don't know why. That, That's. That one is very confusing to me. I just think that that's. I think that's a big, big mistake. I don't think that's gonna go well. I don't. I don't think that was a good idea. I don't think I'll zip it now, but.

[Nick]

Well, Lisa, before we let you go, as they say, when. When a door closes, sometimes people open a window. And on the heel of your divorce and all your heartbreak, you've created. It sounds like an app for. For people also going through divorce. Can you tell us a little bit more about it?

[Brian]

Yeah. So split. Well, that has been in the works for the last two years. Jody has been very significant in that. Of course, he has a, you know, he's a. He has a tech AI background. He's a genius on these things. He is one of my investors, my advisors. It's an AI powered divorce support app, which I think is really the first of its kind. And I saw the need for this going through what I was going through. And then now AI at that time was just becoming very, very, very popular and people were just starting to understand it. And like, as I think everyone knows, knows now you need to get on that train because that's where the world is headed. So I think we got on that at the right time. And I think the tools. AI is just amazing if it's used properly. And it's really. It saved me thousands of dollars when we were still like in beta testing for this app. You know, it's. It has everything you can think of to help you through your divorce. Recommended attorneys, A note taker app. I mean, a note taker in within the app is one of the features. It has a document. You can, under all of your documents, upload them, it translates them. It has everything to help deescalate the conflict, to reduce. Reduce the cost and to level the playing field, to, you know, to level the power. Because a lot of the times the men, you know, they. They back factually, they have the power. They have the advantage in the divorce because they usually have the money. They have more of the understanding of legal. Most women, like myself, had no idea. I've never even gotten, like, so much as a speeding ticket. So having to call your lawyer for every little thing was. Is. Is very expensive. So this helps with all of that. It's actually free right now. It's available on the App Store. We're having the. We're launching Android, so Android users can. Can use it very soon and check it out, because we want your feedback. There you go. I think it's going to change the world. I hope so. Sounds like it will. Yeah.

[Nick]

Lisa, thank you so much for your time. It was great chatting with you. Hopefully, next time we'll be able to do it in person. So sorry that you had to go through all this, the divorce and everything, but thank you. You're very brave. We're very lucky to have been able to chat with you. Please let my audience know where they can find you and follow you and all that fun stuff.

[Brian]

Yeah. Lisa Hochstein. That's it. Everywhere. Lisa Hochstein. Lisa Hochstein. And then split well. App on Instagram. We're trying to get split well, but someone, I don't know, stole it or something, but everywhere else. Split well. Split well. Like, you want to split and you want to do it well.

[Nick]

Love it. All right, Lisa, good luck with everything going forward. I'm glad you don't have to go any more influencer parties.

[Brian]

Yeah. Well, find them. Those. Those ones.

[Nick]

Yeah, Those are gross. Yuki. Yeah? I want to get paid. You're the best, Lisa. We appreciate you.

[Brian]

A star.

[Mary]

Bye.

[Nick]

All right. Bye. Bye.

[Brian]

Bye. Hi.

[Nick]

All right, well, thank you guys for listening. Thank you to all our guests, Freddy, Brian and Lisa Hockstein. We appreciate them all for joining us. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye. Marketing is hard. Hard. But I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a Podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host and endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.