← The Viall Files
The Viall Files
E986 – Going Deeper with James Gunn
01:49:28
Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper edition. Superman. Guardians of the Galaxy. The live action Scooby Doo films. These are just some of the things our incredible guest James Gunn has created, and we’re incredibly excited and honored...
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- [00:00]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
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- [00:38]
James Gunn
Typically takes 15 days.
- [00:39]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
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- [00:47]
James Gunn
If you pay off early or cancel contact T Mobile.
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Nick Viall
James, welcome to the show.
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James Gunn
Oh man, it's good to be here.
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Nick Viall
This is really exciting for me. I'm glad you're here. I'm very excited about talking about Peacemaker but just like right off the get, like anecdotally, you know, thinking about having you come in. It's a cool moment for me. I've known you for a long time.
- [01:15]
James Gunn
I know.
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Nick Viall
We've known you all the way back.
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James Gunn
You met me as a fan of yours because I liked you on the Bachelor. And then when you had your season of the Bachelor, I did a little video.
- [01:28]
Nick Viall
Yeah.
- [01:28]
James Gunn
For the show saying we're team. Me and Jen did a video where I said, you know, we're team Nick. Go Nick. Right. It was something like.
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Nick Viall
Like that.
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James Gunn
Yeah. And it was. And it was, you know, because Alan Gale.
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Nick Viall
Yes.
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James Gunn
Was the greatest. He's one of my best friends in the world.
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Nick Viall
Greatest shown around the Bachelor.
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James Gunn
Yeah.
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Nick Viall
The single most reason why I was ever the Bachelor. There's a lot of people who will take credit for whatever success they think I've had.
- [01:54]
James Gunn
Yeah.
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Nick Viall
On that show. And it's really. I know it's a lot ye. He always advocated for me because I was never one of the. I was never like their kind of guy, so to speak. But I was Alon's kind of guy. Which I appreciated. But it reminded me like just when I started this show was right before you had your going away party for Suicide Squad 2.
- [02:17]
James Gunn
Uh huh.
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Nick Viall
And you graciously invited me and I could only make the first hour because that was the first and only live show I've ever done, but I was like less than 10 episodes in. We're about to hit our thousandth episode. Thousand episode.
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James Gunn
Wow.
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Nick Viall
So to have you, like, to have you here as a guest is a cool moment and chance to interview you, but it's just like, it made me think about just how you started your career. I mean, you're the head of DC Studios, director of some of the coolest movies, certainly comic books out there, reality TV fan, we love to throw in.
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James Gunn
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Nick Viall
But like, also just.
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Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
Do you ever just like, look back.
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Nick Viall
In your career and like, reflect on just like, you know, how it started to. How it is and. And ever?
- [03:01]
James Gunn
Yeah.
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Nick Viall
Does it. How surreal does it sometimes feel?
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James Gunn
I'm here promoting Peacemaker, right? And I've done. I'm doing a lot for the season of Peacemaker, and it's because I love the show so much, but it isn't. It is a communal sport. It's like. It's not what I did. Although I do like my work on the show, but I love the work of, you know, the stunt coordinators and the actors and all the other people that added to the show. I'm so proud of all of that, that it's. It's just been this just wonderful, wonderful journey with this show through two seasons. That in itself, there's no holds barred with this show. I'm able to do anything. And we do do anything, you know, even if it's a dance sequence to, you know, heads exploding to an orgy, to deep emotional reson. All of it's available to us and it's just been so much fun.
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Nick Viall
Well, that's why I love Peacemaker so much. I've told you this for everything you just described. And I think just in general, I've always been a fan of your work. I'm more of the casual comic book fan. I wasn't the kid who read every comic book. I watched the movies. I grew up watching Star wars and things like that. And I've always felt like whether it was Guardians of the Galaxy, Superman, Peacemaker for sure, anyone can watch it. You don't like you.
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James Gunn
Because I hopefully not small children watch it.
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Nick Viall
Not small children, but any adult.
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James Gunn
Certainly any adult.
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Nick Viall
Because you're so good at interpersonal relationships and so much of your work, I just feel like you're connecting to the human spirit, so to speak, and you can watch it. Not necessarily being someone who's like a die hard comic book fan and connect to the characters that you write is. That is intentional for you. Or is that something that just kind of organically happens, happen?
- [04:48]
James Gunn
I think it's organic. I mean, I just. I. I love characters. You know, I love the characters that I write. I really fall in love with them. But I also, you know, I love comic books and comic book characters, and they're outlandish, and at times can be silly, and at times can be, you know, creepy or whatever. But for me, it always starts with the question, what if they were real? And the. The thing that is the most important to be real for me is their psychological. Who they are and how they think and what they believe, you know? And so when I make the Superman movie, you know, I think there's been a lot of Superman movies, and usually it's super first, man second. Our movie is man first, super second. And that's what it's about with Peacemaker. He's not even as. I mean, the costume is just. It's. It's just a thing he. He wears, and he doesn't even wear it that much in season two. Yeah. And it really is the Christopher Smith show, you know, or the Christopher Smith and Friends show, and that's those characters I fall in love with. I mean, I love, you know, one of the weird things about Peacemaker, too, and I'm getting off track of anything you're asking me is that. So I made three, you know, Guardians movies, and that's what I'm mostly associated with. That's, you know, six hours of film. I've made two seasons of Peacemaker, you know, and that's, you know, it's not. They're not each an hour, but, you know, it's. It's. It's, you know, over 10 hours of film. And so these characters are the characters I've gotten to know the best in a lot of ways. And. And really have by far. To me, the 11th street kids have the most complicated personalities or complex personalities of any of the characters I've dealt with.
- [06:32]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
And when you're writing these characters, are you writing with an actor in mind, or does that.
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James Gunn
My first. Right.
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Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Yeah.
- [06:39]
James Gunn
Well, I mean, so in Peace. Yes, in Peacemaker, I can tell you completely what I did. So the character of Peacemaker, I already had established that in Suicide Squad, so that was John, the character of Amelia Harcourt, who played by my wife, Jen, and John Economos and my friend Steve. They were both in Suicide Squad, so those three characters were like, the foundation then. I really wanted somebody who was the opposite force of Peacemaker in the first season, somebody who was gonna challenge all of his thoughts and who he was about the world, but also kind of create a buddy comedy between a romance that's platonic, between two characters who were completely different. And so I created the character of Leota Adebayo, and I loved Orange is a New Black, but I especially loved a couple of actors on that show, one of whom was Daniel Brooks. And so I did write the show thinking of imagining Danielle as the character, not knowing for sure that she was gonna be able to do it or that HBO would be, yeah, okay, you can do it with Daniel Brooks versus oh, no, we need a bigger star or something. And so it was always written for Danielle, you know, but other times, like I wrote in the first season, there's a character of Murn played by Chiquity Awuji, who went up to play the High Evolutionary. Great guy, one of the best actors I've ever worked with. And I wrote that role for Lance Reddick, if you remember Lance from what's Lance? The Wire. And Lance wanted to do it, but he couldn't because he had another show. And so I had to find another actor. And Chuck Woody came in and it wasn't like he just had a complete, completely different take on the character. And I think it's probably the best performance in season one. Yeah. So it just. It changes.
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Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
So that challenges you to kind of go back in and tweak those characters to who maybe you're new to.
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James Gunn
Well, I think somebody. Somebody like Chuck just. He just found a way in. He didn't. There was nothing changed about the dialogue that the characters said, but the way he approached it was so. Which was how he got that role, because there's a scene where he is. Because his character has been taken over by a butterfly, which is these insects that crawl into people's brains and drive them around like skin cars, but they still retain the memories and the feelings and the emotions and the thoughts of whoever the post body is, so they're able to access all those feelings. And he has to deliver this speech about how he took over the worst person in the world he could find because he wanted to be moral about it. But he still lives with that person's thoughts and feelings and sees that even he had the capacity to change. And it's just such a multi layered performance that if you see Chuck do it, it's like, wow.
- [09:37]
Nick Viall
Crazy how like growing up, I mean, you've. When I went to the Garden of the Galaxy 2 premiere that you invited me to, and you kind of address the audience and briefly just talked about your Inspiration, writing. And I think you referenced the relationship growing up with your parents and things like that. So how is that just in general again, that kind of in touchness that you have with your emotions and your interest in those interpersonal relationships. As a young man, were you always pretty self aware about your emotions and things like that?
- [10:17]
James Gunn
No, no, I really wasn't. I was. I was a pretty rough kid, but I got sober when I was very young.
- [10:24]
Nick Viall
Okay.
- [10:25]
James Gunn
And went through rehab when I was 19 years old and stayed sober since then. And I think that gave me an access to my emotions and feelings that most guys especially don't have. At 19 years old now, I still was incredibly rough around the edges.
- [10:45]
Nick Viall
Sure.
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James Gunn
You know, played in bands and still was not, you know, I used every other drug that wasn't actually a drug to cover up my feelings, but it was. But it did. It did start this, I think, journey in life of trying to be equally attuned to my. My thoughts and my feelings and being aware of, you know, how those things do drive me and where those things are a way to cover up. It's funny because we were, you know, we're here in town in New York celebrating my birthday with my best friends. I was sitting outside with Michaela Hoover this morning, and I lost my temper slightly with something this morning. Not on a person, but something I had heard somebody say, and I was complaining about it. And she said, but it's good to feel anger. I said, I don't know.
- [11:38]
Nick Viall
I don't.
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James Gunn
I don't really feel. Anger is actually a feeling. I think that anger is the thing we do to avoid something else. I think that we feel embarrassment and so we react with anger because we want to deny that we feel hurt. So we react with anger. Anger is really. We feel fear, we react with anger. And especially men. That's like something we do all the time. And I'm not a psychologist, although I do have a psychology degree, but I'm not a psychologist. And I, you know, maybe there is some sort of pure anger that has nothing to do related to another emotion.
- [12:16]
Nick Viall
No, I think that makes a lot of sense.
- [12:17]
James Gunn
For the most part. It seems like it's always covering up something else.
- [12:20]
Nick Viall
Yeah, it's like that initial reaction and you don't know how to process it. And so it manifests in the form of.
- [12:27]
James Gunn
Of anger. Of anger, yeah. Which is what this whole story of Rocket Raccoon, Right. Like that's his whole incredible. That's his journey over three movies, is he's angry, but he's not he's alone, you know he's alone and you know, he doesn't have a sense of purpose.
- [12:44]
Nick Viall
Do you have. Do your characters, whether throughout all your different projects, do they ever represent a very specific person in your life, throughout your life or, you know, Definitely.
- [12:56]
James Gunn
I mean, Yondu's my dad. I mean, Yondu is so much my dad, you know, Totally imperfect father growing up. But I knew he loved me at the end of the day. And I always think that if your parents give you one thing, it's that they love you. And I think that if you know you're loved by your parents, I mean, my dad was really bad in certain ways growing up, but I'd rather have that bad stuff and know I was loved than the other way around. Somebody who's sort of perfect, but you don't feel like they love you, you know? Yeah, that's hard.
- [13:27]
Nick Viall
Yeah. Because as new parents, like we're. That's the thing. We want to make sure our daughter.
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James Gunn
Knows she feels our love.
- [13:32]
Nick Viall
And like, we do our best to be parents. We know we're gonna up like. We know, yeah, we mess up, but it's. Yeah, you just want to be there, be present. Yeah.
- [13:41]
James Gunn
Yeah. So my dad, I mean, my dad was never there, but he. He did love me. I knew he loved me. And that's a weird thing. I don't know why. I just knew that he did. Probably because he was very an emotional, you know, Irish.
- [13:52]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Did you know it growing up or was that something you look back?
- [13:55]
James Gunn
I always knew you did well. I mean, there were a couple of rough years there in the middle, but for the most part, I knew he loved.
- [14:02]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
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- [16:19]
Nick Viall
You've worked with obviously John Cena for peacemaker David Batista in Guardians of the Galaxy and I have a special appreciation for those particular actors. When I got done with reality TV and I went out to Hollywood and I Got into acting and hosting and doing this. When you come from a very reality TV space, there's a lot of. You get pigeonholed. People make a lot of assumptions about you. And it was when my friends would say, well, why? Why are you doing this? Like, no one's ever really successfully transitioned. And I'd always reference people like John.
- [16:57]
James Gunn
Yeah.
- [16:57]
Nick Viall
And David as people. It's just like, they used to be wrestlers. These only be known as wrestlers. And they have become brilliant actors. Like, I really, like, respect what John and David have done, because you can tell they hone in on their craft. Is it a coincidence you've worked so much with both of these guys, and what do you like? What do you think makes them so unique? And because to me, it feels like they have this incredible work ethic and, like, dedication to their craft, and I think it really. It shows in their work.
- [17:23]
James Gunn
Yeah, they're both incredibly talented guys. I mean, the thing that attracted me to Dave was he just had this rawness in this realness in his eyes that was just really potent, and I loved that about him. It's actually not that much different than with John, you know? And John, of course, is now the actor I've probably worked with the most. He's incredibly close friend. And I think that people who see the season of Peacemaker are going to be freaked out by how good he is because he's gotten so much better. He is incredible in this season. But with him, there was a moment in the Suicide Squad where he has his gun pointed at Daniela Melchior's character, Ratcatcher 2, and she's kind of crying and he's going to kill her. And, you know, he doesn't want to, but it's this weird commitment to keeping the peace that's gonna make him shoot a young girl. And I go into this close up on his eyes, and you can just see everything working there behind his eyes. And that's not something everyone can do, even good actors. I can name some famous good actors who I don't think can do that. And John. It was there with John, and I saw that was sort of the seed of the Peacemaker series. That was where I saw there was something in this guy that I could help bring out. And actually, John Cena and Chris Pratt are very similar in some ways, and that they're both guys who are performers, who are entertainers, and we're always entertaining. And the main thing to get to with both of those guys was allowing them to what I call stop juggling, stop tap dancing. Just be. Because there's something about. You're a movie star and there's a unique, unusual likability and vulnerability to you in the moment. And you don't need to prove to other people that you're likable. So if you can stop proving, you're in the arena. And so it's really like sculpture. It's not teaching. It's just getting rid of habits. And then working with John, especially over Peacemaker Season 1, where he got to this new level and then he took all of that stuff and has been acting for the past two years, non stop refining that stuff and getting better with it. And then by the time we came to the first episode of this season of Peacemaker, which you've seen, and he has the moment where he's with his kind dad in the alternate world and he says goodbye to him and he walks out. And I'm like, john, I think you break down crying here. And John had a really hard time in the first season with a crying scene, which was a much more comedic crying scene. So it was kind of. It was harder in some ways, but not. But I'm in this close up on John and I just see he's like, okay. And his dad walks out and you just see him bring his hand to his face and tears spill down his eyes and then he breaks down and sobs. And I'm like, holy cow. That's not usual for a wrestler or for any actor, you know, frankly, especially male actors. And so it was like, it was so different. He was so in touch with the rawness of his emotions. And it is a much different season because of where I think both John and I are at emotionally because of the character and how he's changed from the first season, and because John as an actor is just so much more able to do his thing there isn't. This isn't about the blustery Peacemaker who's pushing everyone away by saying things that are politically incorrect. This is about a guy who's totally messed up and aware he's messed up and trying to find a little bit of joy in the universe and not really having an easy time at doing it.
- [21:36]
Nick Viall
Did it almost when he showed up to film season two? Or is it like he came from almost like a. I always think of, like a training sequence, you know, like. Like a. You know, whether it's a sports movie or a superhero movie or whatever, he's been really working on his craft and he kind of almost showed up. Like, he showed up ready to go.
- [21:56]
James Gunn
Yeah, well, he's always totally prepared. I mean, that's.
- [21:58]
Nick Viall
But just like, another level.
- [21:59]
James Gunn
Yeah. All these guys. Crew is always totally prepared. They come in, they know the scripts backwards and forwards, and they're, you know, just really, it is a real family on set. It's such a fan, you know, I mean, Daniel Brooks and Freddie Stroma, who plays Vigilante, they live next near me in Atlanta. Like, really? Oh, yeah. That's. You know, they're part of my friend circle. So it's. It is. It's really close. And John lives nearby in Florida, and. Yeah, it's just a really close group of people. Steve Agee, who plays John Economist, has been my friend 17 years, I think. So it's an unusual group of people.
- [22:36]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
You mentioned your psychology degree. Has there been anything. I mean, and you've also written a ton of characters. Have you done anything specific to get, like, in the mind of a specific character that would only work for that character?
- [22:50]
James Gunn
I mean, I read a lot. You know, I do. I do a lot of research. If I'm, you know, writing someone who's a journalist, like Lois Lane, I really do go and learn what it's like to be a journalist. I wanted to. You know, I didn't want. You know, a lot of times in some of these shows, it doesn't. Loseling doesn't necessarily seem like a real journalist. She seems like it's. That's her job and that's what's hung on her, but she's not really. But I wanted her to be a real journalist. And so, you know, you have to learn a little bit about that. And Rachel did the same thing. She went out and talked to journalists and learned about what it was like to have that career, you know, but in terms of. I don't think I ever do anything I can think of to get into the mind of a character, but I do. I just read a lot, you know, So I read. You know, when there's books on writing that come out, I still keep up and try to learn new things that I don't know. I'm just always trying to learn, you know, Always trying to get better, you know.
- [23:43]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Is it hard for you to separate your personal life from the life of creating characters or. I mean, you, like. You mix a lot of your personal life into your work, which, you know.
- [23:53]
James Gunn
Yeah, like, because of my friends and things.
- [23:55]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Well, like, I mean, the dog. Crypto.
- [23:57]
James Gunn
Oh, yeah. Crypto.
- [23:58]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
And, you know, like.
- [23:59]
James Gunn
Yeah, right.
- [23:59]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Your dad and, you know, I feel like.
- [24:01]
James Gunn
Yeah. I mean, this is where if Jen was here, she'd be shaking her head over there. But it's like, I don't. You know, I work a lot, you know, I really don't. I don't have much of a life, you know? Yeah, I don't. And, you know, I try to, but especially the past few years have been nonstop work. You know, I wrote this season of Peacemaker in eight weeks. Wow. Because I had to get it done before I started shooting Superman, and it was, like, hellish. I was like, just grind, grind, grind, grind, grind.
- [24:35]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
You know, do you need the push or would you have been like. I would, like, maybe a little bit longer or was it a little. Nice motivation?
- [24:45]
James Gunn
Yeah, I don't. I think I work well under pressure and not under pressure, because when I'm writing, I'm just in that space. But, yeah, there. I think there was something about the grind that was good because it was. It put me in a place where I just had to do it. And. And so maybe there was new things that came out because of that, because I'm really, you know, in every. Every episode, I was like, oh, I got that episode done, but now I have to go do the next episode. Oh, my God, this one's. I don't feel inspired at all. I think it's gonna be terrible. You know, they're. I'm in Florida or in Hawaii with all my friends, and I'm at the hotel writing, and I'm like, it's gonna be terrible. And I write. Right, right. I'm like, oh, I like that episode. That was pretty good. I like that. That's pretty good. But the next one's gonna suck, you know, And I have to go in there and go. I'm like, ah.
- [25:29]
Nick Viall
Are you writing in your head constantly? Because I feel like I'm just always in my head. My. I'll be outside and pacing. And now, like, who are you talking to right now? And I'm, like, thinking about, like, my next episode.
- [25:39]
James Gunn
Yeah, yeah.
- [25:40]
Nick Viall
Question. That's kind of.
- [25:42]
James Gunn
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's. It's. I. And especially when I'm in the act of writing, I get what I think of as writer's brain, which, you know, like, right now I've taken a break while I've come here to New York with my friends. But I just finished the treatment for the next, you know, piece of the Superman saga. And so. And a treatment for me means that it's, you know, it's 70 pages of, like, writing with every single. That's the hard part of Writing for me is the treatment. Yeah, the screenplay is fun, but when I'm in that, the space of writing, you know, my dreams are different. I'm waking up. I'm. You know, sometimes I'm waking up and it's really great thoughts and inspired and I'm writing stuff on my phone, but it keeps me up all night. And other times it's just almost like a frustrating, like not trying to break something that's not quite working in the script and figure it out from a logical perspective and try and being stuck in that, you know, sprocket. But it's, it's, it really is. I can't sleep like a normal person when I'm in the act of writing, directing. I'm actually, I've, I used to be just the same way, but I'm better now. It's a little bit more like a job that I go to. So go home, go to sleep, wake up, go work again.
- [26:53]
Nick Viall
When I watch these films that you make, I'm always in awe of things that people do that I don't think I have the capability to do. And so you're not only just writing these films, but you're writing universes in a way like these. Do you start from like 30,000 foot view of like the universe you're creating or do you start with like the character and build the universe around them? Does that, does that make sense?
- [27:13]
James Gunn
Because, well, I think, I think, I think character is always the most important part for me. But I am popping back and forth, you know, so I am like thinking, well, what is the long term story I'm telling here? What is the story that I'm going to tell about Superman over four movies? What is the story I'm telling about Peacemaker over, you know, a number of different media, you know, what is it? What is it that's the long term story for these characters? And what, how does that intertwine with the stories of other characters? Whether it's Harcourt or Eagly or, you know, Batman, who we haven't even met yet, you know, so what is the big story we're telling here? What's the big purpose here? So that is always a part of something like the, the perfect. The example that's paid off is Rocket in Guardians. Right. I always knew what the ending of the story was. I always knew it was about Rocket accepting himself as a raccoon and coming to realize that he had empathy for every living creature as opposed to just the, the people around him and himself. It was about going from being a completely Selfish, self involved creature to a hero. And what was that story? And in a way, it's a trilogy of incredibly expensive movies that are just answering the question, why is he called Rocket Raccoon? And so I always knew that that was the center of the story for me. And so everything was always kind of around that. You know, I always knew for me it was. Rocket was always a protagonist. Star Lord was, you know, important, but he was always there mostly to serve Rocket's story. The same thing with all the other characters. So fascinating. So it was always that. That was the center of the story for me. But I also always knew Star Lord was going to go home. You know, that Star Lord, in a way, you know, in what. What was his story? His story was a story in which we were telling, he ran away from home, his mother died. If you look at it as, you know, you know, symbolic or, you know, allegorical, Star Lord's mother died. He left this planet and went out to outer space where he was not really present, and over the journey of three films, came back home to Earth where his grandfather was. So it really is about, you know, and his story is about a guy who is leaving, left himself when he was young because of the trauma of his youth and came to, little by little, accept that. That trauma, you know, same thing. You know, Nebula, Same thing. They all have their own stories.
- [29:57]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
You know, I don't feel like I'm the biggest comic book fan. And I have to say, Peacemaker is so good. It's so entertaining. I mean, Jennifer, your wife, is a complete badass.
- [30:11]
James Gunn
Yeah.
- [30:11]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
When you're writing for her, are you wanting to kind of. Are you writing to like, push her out of her comfort zone and challenge her as an actor?
- [30:19]
James Gunn
Yeah.
- [30:20]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
You are?
- [30:21]
James Gunn
Yeah. But I also. I'm knowing what she. I know what she's capable of. Like, you know, Jen wouldn't work with me for, like, three movies. You know, I offered her a role in, you know, in Guardians 2. Then I offered another role. And then in Suicide Squad, there was this character, tech number two, who eventually became Amelia Harcourt. And I'm like, just come and do this character with me. We had been together by five years or whatever that time, so I was like, just come and do this. This character with me and, you know, we'll play it. We'll have fun on set. And I. I knew pretty much what she was capable of because I had, you know, done auditions with her and I'd read and stuff like that, but I didn't see her. You know, I saw her Act. She was on a.
- [31:04]
Nick Viall
Before you got together?
- [31:05]
James Gunn
Well, no, when we were together, I was, you know, I would read with her when she's auditioning for other roles. Yeah, yeah. But also when we, you know, she was on a TV show called Sun Records right after we started dating, but it was, like, not a heavy acting TV show, and so she was a regular on that. But so I knew she could act, but we just really worked well together and we had fun doing it. And so then when I started doing Peacemaker, I'm like, I think this is, you know, bringing one of the, you know, because everything is still, like, putting on a play with my friends, you know, and. And the fact that I was going to be able to do this TV show and then I could have Steve Agee, one of my best friends, and Jen along with me and John, that was like, oh, this is going to be fun. Now we're going to have. This is going to be fun. And it has been. And then seeing these characters that I fall in love with that are not my friends, but are people who I love, and then finding, like, you know, it is kind of pushing them into new territory. Like in season one, when Steve Agee, who's basically a comic, has to break down crying when he's talking about his. Why he dyes his beard. It's. It's like that was pushing Steve. Like, he had never done that before. And it was so interesting because when we were shooting it, once the faucets came on, they couldn't go. He couldn't turn him off. He was like, it was really sorry.
- [32:24]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
You, like, just keep rolling.
- [32:25]
James Gunn
Keep rolling. Yeah, I rolled and I rolled, you know, and it was like, it was intense. But with Jen, she's more of a trained actor who's been trained for a long time, and so I know what she's capable of. And, you know, my favorite. One of my favorite scenes I've ever, ever directed or written is in episode six, which is a very long scene between Jen and John. And it's the best acting, I think, of both of their careers, and I cannot wait for people to.
- [32:53]
Nick Viall
That's amazing. And when you guys are hanging out together, being husband and wife, like, is like, I love working with my wife. Like, there's a level, like, I didn't plan on it. We got together after I had this show. I was like, oh, my God, you're funny. And I never imagined I would meet someone whose opinion. And, like, Natalie's younger than me, and I was just like, you know, people had all these Various opinions. But then the more I got to, like, spend time with Nally and my wife, I just. I was almost surprised how much I valued her take on things. I always felt like Natalie knew what my strengths were and never tried to make me confused about what I was confident in. But the things that I knew that she was really good at, we got this kind of shorthand of how we communicated. But I feel like with work now, she's always that first person I go to when I'm unsure about something or I want to run an idea about her. I just really trust her taste. And I always felt like working together, maybe some couples can't do it as much, but for us, it really helps us stay connected. Yeah, in a sense. And. And so much about a relationship is making sure, like, we're being connected. Do you. I'm assuming you enjoy it as. As much as I do working with your wife, offering her these roles. But, like, is it ever a challenge?
- [34:05]
James Gunn
I. And sometimes it's a challenge because, of course, you know, your wife has. Your wife has a shorthand with you, speak to you in a way in which I'm not accustomed to be spoken to on set. And I'm like, wait a second. You know, Sylvester Stallone doesn't talk to me like that, you know, so. But. But, yeah, no, I mean, I really enjoy seeing talented people get to shine, you know, whether it's, you know, Foxy Shazam, who did the theme song for the new season, and, you know, using their music. I mean, they're one of my favorite bands in the world, and all the different bands we use in Peacemaker or Steve Agee or Jen or my brother Sean. I mean, you know, getting to allow people to see people's talent is so fun to me. And Jen is really helpful. I mean, she's especially helpful at the writing stage. She's really, really, really good script reader. And. And. And. And harsh. But I don't. But harsh in a good way. Not like, I don't.
- [35:07]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
I'm not very offended by it. You're like, oh, wow, that was.
- [35:10]
James Gunn
And that very sensitive about. Okay, script notes. You know, I mean, I think I was. When I was young, like, I had a girlfriend that would read my stories and, you know, be really harsh with me, and I'm, like, getting a big fight.
- [35:23]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Give me that back.
- [35:24]
James Gunn
You know, different when you're 22 and, you know, it's like. And also, I was like, you know, more not as confident, I guess. I mean, now it really. There is a part of filmmaking which is like, it is purely logical. It's purely. There's a part of it that's artistic and emotional and you're following the muse. And then there's another part of it that is logical. You're fixing problems, you're trying to. You're creating a machine that needs to work in the right way for an audience. And the, the balance between those two things is what's important to me. It's neither one or the other. You know, you can't say, oh, it's just all artistry when you're making a, you know, 200 million dollar movie movie. But you also. I see what happens when you see guys who become bean counters when they're making a movie. And those movies are soulless, you know, And I think there's very few people that are making big movies that are doing it with passion. And that's important to me. You know, that's why I love Matt Reeves and Greta Gerwig and Ryan Coogler and, you know, you know, you know, all these, you know, Denny and a few other people I think are really fantastic spectacle film directors.
- [36:36]
Nick Viall
In Peacemaker 2, a big theme is these different dimensions through these portals. And something, for me, I've always been fast. I'm not that much of a religious person. I don't believe everything happens for a reason. I believe our choices matter. And I believe in free will. And when I'm watching the first few episodes of Peacemaker, when Peacemaker goes through these different portals and he sees these alternate universes and I don't want to give anything away, but it shows how if people made different choices, different outcomes could happen.
- [37:09]
James Gunn
That's right. Yes.
- [37:10]
Nick Viall
I love, and I love that deeper meaning because I can internally, it makes me go down rabbit holes in terms of like, I always tell your choices matter. You can recover for them, you can learn from them if you're willing to. But our choices make a difference. Is like, what was your inspiration for coming up with this dimension kind of storyline?
- [37:32]
James Gunn
Is that I've always loved the same thing. And it's one of the funny things because people are like, oh, it's another multiverse story. But it's not to me. I love Deadpool and Deadpool vs. Wolverine is hilarious to me. And that's like a bunch of crazy Deadpools from all over the place. And you're seeing all these different things. This is a really a contemplative story about one guy and the things that he's lost that he's never had. And that's what interested me. With this story, I'm not giving away anything, but it's about. He has an alternate father in another planet. And he's everything he wished his own father was. He's loving, he's kind. And just the moment of meeting him and being with him. He realizes what he's never had in his life. And yet, you know, we all don't have things. And so Adebayo has a very different opinion about what he's doing than he does. And as the season goes on, we see more and more, you know, permit. You know, the ways that world has differed from our own world. And seems to him like it's everything that he wanted this world always to be. But is it really, you know, other.
- [38:47]
Nick Viall
Things when you're writing that idea? There are things about your life where you wonder, are there, like, pivotal moments. And when you look back in your.
- [38:54]
James Gunn
Life all the time, like, listen, I loved playing music. Like, I played in bands. That's what I did when I was young. That's what I wanted to do. And I wasn't the greatest singer in the world. And I wanted to be the best at what I did. And so I started, you know, around. It was around that time I really started writing. And then it just. That took off in a way. Like, it didn't seem like when I was playing in bands it was such a grind. And not a grind like working, like, I'm talking about writing screenplays. But a grind like I'm trying to force success where there wasn't any.
- [39:33]
Nick Viall
I totally. Right now.
- [39:34]
James Gunn
And I started writing. And then everything just sort of was like a slingshot. Like, all of a sudden I'm in this channel that everybody loved what. What I did. And it was crazy to me how, you know, how it happened. And I found this thing I was really good at. And I still, to this day, don't believe in telling people to follow your dreams. I think find what you're good at and do that because you're going to be happy Having a purposeful life where you're doing what you're good at. That's what's really important. A dream is just that it's a dream. I don't. You know, it's like, maybe you're good at that. But. However, my brother, you know, Sean, would totally disagree with that. He wanted to be an actor since the time he was young. And he's just acted, you know. I think my wife just always wanted to be. So they've just stayed on that track. But for me, I really was always looking for What I was best at. And. And that's when writing became direct. I mean, I had already direct. You know, I had played around with directing a lot, so it wasn't like I was a neophyte with that, but like, I. It became directing, became storytelling, became, you know, doing dc, so. But yeah, do I think back sometimes. What if I kept playing music? I probably would have had, you know, I was a good songwriter, I was a good performer. You know, I've now had, you know, we've had. I've had hits and stuff that I've written with other people, but it's. But it's not the same thing as playing in bands. And I loved it.
- [41:02]
Nick Viall
Yeah, I'm sure you would have been good. I think you're a very talented person. You have a great work ethic. But to your point, good playing music might not be the head of DC Studios, you know.
- [41:13]
James Gunn
That's right.
- [41:13]
Nick Viall
You reach a certain level.
- [41:14]
James Gunn
I was making a living, but I wasn't. I wasn't. You know, I wasn't. I just wasn't the greatest.
- [41:20]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Yeah, but what is your go to karaoke song?
- [41:23]
James Gunn
I have a couple of them, but if there's Generation Landslide by Alice Cooper, that's my go to. Yeah.
- [41:29]
Nick Viall
Do you come up with most of your music for all your shows? Because that's always been one of my favorite parts. Maybe it's because.
- [41:35]
James Gunn
Oh, you mean the song choices? Oh, yeah, 100%. There's never been anyone who's made any. Any choice, Any song in any movie other than me.
- [41:43]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
Your.
- [41:43]
Nick Viall
Your movies remind me of my, like. Remind me of Saturday mornings with my dad, because I'd wake up and he'd be blasting like the Police and like. Yeah, just like all these different types. A lot of the REO Speedwagon, things like that. Saturday mornings were like. And so listening to this type of music that I always seem to find in your work, and I. I find it very nostalgic. I love it.
- [42:05]
James Gunn
Yeah. I mean, I like. What I like doing is every. Every project has its own vibe, you know, and so, yes, 70s AM pop, that was the vibe of the first Guardians. And then that kind of evolved as we went on, you know, into more 90s space rock for the third one. And with, you know, it's. It's kind of the hair metal, you know, for lack of a better term, Sleaze metals. Glam metal. For Peacemaker, you know, for Creature Commandos, it was all what's called gypsy rock. And so I like having everything kind of has its own vibe, but I Am. I'm still incredibly obsessive about music, constantly listening to and collecting music.
- [42:43]
Nick Viall
Are you thinking of the songs while you're writing? Are you done with the scripture?
- [42:46]
James Gunn
They're all written into the scripts. So every song in Peacemaker was written into the script. And when people get the scripts, when the cast gets the scripts, they get a playlist on Spotify that's private. That is all the songs so that they can listen to the songs.
- [43:02]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
You've got to be so good at just compartmentalizing. Like, your brain must have so many different files, and it seems like there's just so much organization up there.
- [43:11]
James Gunn
Yeah, I am pretty organized, I think. I mean, at least in that respect. But I told somebody last night, I can't remember when we were talking about. But I'm really. I never, ever procrastinate with work, but I'm. Anything to do with my actual life, I'm terrible. It took me. I decided to propose to my wife, and it took me four years to actually do it. You know, it was like. You know, it was really peak procrastination. Yeah. Yeah. But, like, I decided that I was going to ask Jen to marry me. And Chris Pratt called me up and he said, dude, I want to tell you something I haven't told anybody. I'm going to ask Katherine to marry me. Katherine Schwarzenegger. I said, dude, it's funny you say that, because I've just come to an awareness, and I'm in the same place, and I'm going to ask Jen to marry me. We'd already been together for a while, too. And it's three years later, we're on the set of Guardians 3, and Chris is married with a child. And he's like, dude, what is going on? And I'm, like, still playing dude? I don't know. Yeah, I just think I. This thing came, you know, a movie Covid. Like, I. As. I don't know. And he's like, I'm gonna, you know, go, you know, get you a ring. This is true. This is totally true. And he said, I'm going to go. He was going to pay for the ring. Believe me, he's not that good of a friend. And so he and Catherine went out, their ring person and their diamond person, and they're like, you know, facetiming me. And they're like, is this the right kind of ring? Is this. And then Catherine is, like, putting the diamond in front of her finger, but holding her hand a little far away from the camera so that the diamond looks. Because her Hand is bigger than Jen's and Den's petite. And so. And. And then they. They got me the ring.
- [44:58]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
So how did you propose after four years of thinking about it?
- [45:03]
James Gunn
I mean, this is. This is. Do you want to hear the story? I do, because it's. It's a little weird. So. It's so. So Jen and I. I told the story last night. So Jen and I are a weird couple. We dated for four months. Never once talked about our relationship. And in four months, all of a sudden, one day, I was like, I think I'm in love with you. We never talked about. Were we dating other people? Were we not dating other people? What's going on? At first, we both were, and then we kind of just stopped because we were talking all the time, and then all of a sudden, we were boyfriend, girlfriend, and then another. Whatever. Seven years goes by, and we never once discussed marriage. Never once. She never said anything to me about marriage. And so all that stuff that I just told you about happened. I went and I. I got a ring. And it was actually. It was Christmas Eve, I think. I was at my sister's house making cookies with Janet and my mom, And Chris is FaceTiming me with these diamonds. And I go into the other room with Beth, my sister, and I'm like, beth. I show her the. The ring. I said, is this good? She's like, that's beautiful. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna get that ring. Ask her to marry me is great. It's going to take, like, two months to make the. Get the ring made or whatever. I go home that night. We're sitting out on the. We're in a rental house in la. We're sitting on the porch in Sunset Hill, you know, looking out at the beautiful skyline. It's beautiful. I love my wife. We're getting ready to go out to my brother's for New Year's Eve, and she comes over and she sits down beside me and she holds my hand and she says, james, I want to tell you something. And I said, what? And she goes, I would like to marry you someday. And I'm like. And inside my head, I'm going, God damn it, what are you doing to me right now? This is a wor. This is the worst possible time you could. You're going to ruin the surprise. Like, this is terrible. But from her point of view, I was like, oh, yeah.
- [47:13]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
She walked away being like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [47:19]
James Gunn
And then she just, like, looks at me. She's like, what? The world is going on? She Went bathroom, started slapping. No, I text my sister. I say, beth, what should I do? Should I, should I do, should I tell her? You know what I mean? I've got the ring and Beth is like, I think you need to tell her. I don't know what I think you should tell her. And I'm like, okay, I'll tell her. So she comes out and she's all wiping the tears away and I go, I go, jen, I think it's really important that I, you know, that I, that I tell you something and I need to. And then I got another ding on my phone. I go, ding. I look down and it's my sister saying, alec, my brother in law, Alex is absolutely, under no circumstances should you tell her and ruin the surprise. I'm totally. This is how little. Like, look how, look how, look how I can control a whole studio. But like, I have no control over my own life. I just, I make no choices for myself. My sister and my brother in law are making all of them. And so I say, and then I'm like, you know, everything's cool, everything's cool, Jen, don't worry about it. Everything's cool. And she's like, okay, you know, we drive, we're going like, she's like trying not to cry the whole time. We're driving over to my brother's house, we go in, we sit down at the table with my mom, and my mom goes, jimmy, she called me Jim. Jimmy, when are you going to marry Jen? And I'm like, oh, my God. You what? What the hell is God doing to me right now? Anyway, so two years later, we had a house announcement. We're walking into it for the first time since we bought it, and I got on my knee and that's amazing. In two months, not two years. Sorry, Two months. Two months after. Wow.
- [48:57]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
So for those two months where she.
- [48:59]
James Gunn
Like, I think she kind of got over it. There was like a bad week. There was a bad week and then she forgot.
- [49:04]
Nick Viall
It almost sounds like an amazing, like a. I want to see that. You write that into a scene someday.
- [49:09]
James Gunn
Yeah.
- [49:09]
Nick Viall
Somehow I just feel like the epic proposal, it sounds too perfect where you're getting all these texts from friends and you're not sure what to do.
- [49:15]
James Gunn
She's. She was just. When I did propose, she just broke down crying and was like cursing me out. You asshole. You asshole. I thought you didn't want to marry me. I thought you didn't want to marry me. Me, Like, I have a funny story.
- [49:29]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
You always have a good poker face.
- [49:31]
James Gunn
To be like, I didn't real. I have.
- [49:34]
Nick Viall
It's almost the opposite.
- [49:35]
James Gunn
It was, it was the opposite. I mean, I think if I had a good poker face, I could have come up with a good. Like, if I had said, oh my God, that means so much to me, Jen. Or if I had said. If I had said, you know what, I'd like to marry you someday too, like, chill. Would. Everything would have been fine when the time. But instead I'm like, yeah.
- [49:54]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Made her feel all weird.
- [49:56]
Nick Viall
What makes your relationship work so well with Jen?
- [49:59]
James Gunn
Who said it works so well?
- [50:01]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
It looks like it works.
- [50:03]
James Gunn
I don't know. She's just a really good partner. I think the thing that I didn't realize about marriage is that you have a partner.
- [50:13]
Nick Viall
Yeah.
- [50:14]
James Gunn
And it is romance and sex and love and all of those things need to work. Friendship, conversation. You have a conversation, partner for life right away. So those things are all really important. But it's also important to. I think in the past, a lot of times I took in broken birds and so I was kind of taking care of everything in a relationship. And if anything, this relationship is the opposite. Like Jen, you know, I make most of the money. She makes a lot of money, actually, but I make most of money. But she takes. She takes care of. I mean, so much of our life is run by Jen.
- [50:51]
Nick Viall
Yeah.
- [50:52]
James Gunn
And having life is easier because we're in a relationship together. And I have to say, most other relationships I was in, I was doing twice as much. I was doing work for two people, you know, emotionally, in every way, you know, and it's just not like that with Jen. She's my totally fully equal partner.
- [51:11]
Nick Viall
I love that you say that because I feel like a lot of times now, today people use the word partner because they don't want to say the wrong thing or anything. But like, to your point, having a real partner. I love what you said. I feel that same way about Natalie. I said to her last night at dinner, I'm like, I just love that you're. You're always willing to face whatever challenges come our way, you know?
- [51:31]
James Gunn
Yeah.
- [51:32]
Nick Viall
When I'm like, we don't sit there and like, well, you do this or I have to do that. Like you said with work, you know, we work together, but I'm doing most of the day to day decision making and things like that. But we're just a team, you know, we tackle whatever we have to face together. We, you know, we just divide and conquer. And feeling like you actually have that partner.
- [51:54]
James Gunn
Yeah.
- [51:55]
Nick Viall
Makes you feel just Less alone. Like you said, less alone. I've felt alone in relationships, but also makes life easier.
- [52:01]
James Gunn
I mean, life is actually easier. Like I don't have to deal with all my house stuff because Jen deals with it. So you know, it's like there is. I don't have to deal with everything. I don't have to deal with all, you know, the stuff with the pets. You know, she takes care of most of the pet stuff. Not all, but most of it, except for the time tears up all my stuff.
- [52:26]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
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Nick Viall
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Nick Viall
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Nick Viall
Pillow, so to speak. You know what I'm saying?
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Nick Viall
So you know it's good.
- [53:44]
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- [55:32]
Nick Viall
Obviously with comic books there is a an intense fan base. And you know, I always say, I remind myself that fans, short for fanatic.
- [55:42]
James Gunn
That's true.
- [55:43]
Nick Viall
When it comes to like, you know, reality TV has its an intense fan base. I think comic book is even more intense. People truly fall in love with.
- [55:50]
James Gunn
Yeah, because in a way, you know, certain people almost, it's almost like their religion.
- [55:54]
Nick Viall
Yeah. For me I try to completely disconnect. I'll tell my team, don't read stuff, it handcuffs you creatively, things like that. But you always do have to strike some kind of balance because it is important to understand how your work. So how do you balance that relationship with fans? Because there are some very personal feelings about characters and cast members and actors and things like that. So how do you address that?
- [56:24]
James Gunn
I mean, first of all, my heart is pure, you know what I mean? I am trying to do the best I can for these DC characters that I love. I will always make mistakes. That's just a part of being a human being. So I'm always doing my best. But when you ask me how do you know that you're dealing with Superman in the right way. It's like, because I'm a Superman fan, I've grown up reading his comic books. I love his comics. Not everyone agrees on what are the most important attributes of Superman, but I basically think that I know who the character is and what is most important to the character, looking at his entire history. And so that's all you can do, really. It's like, if I was a guy who had never read a comic book and was doing a Superman movie, I think it would be a different story. I don't read One piece, you know, if I went out and did, you know, the One Piece show, I think it would be hard for me because I don't understand, you know, what is, you know, the. The most beloved things about One Piece. You know, I've only read a couple of, you know, comics, so it's. But with DC characters, I understand them now. I also do change, you know, somebody like Peacemaker. I also realized I can change a lot about who he is. I. I changed who his father was. I changed certain things. And then also some things, I kept the same. The Guardians. I changed a lot of things. And so I do feel more freedom with characters that are less well known, you know, But I really just have to go off my gut. I can't do much more than that. But I listen to people. I listen to go read some comics with John. She does, like a DC comics. You know, she goes through old DC comics and how they relate to, you know, Easter eggs in the show and all this stuff. And I watch her videos because she's a real fan. And sometimes she teaches me things that I don't know about DC characters. I'm like, well, I better be careful about that thing, you know. And so, because I don't know every DC character fully. I really know Batman. I really know Superman. I really know, you know, Teen Titans. Yeah.
- [58:37]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
When you're taking on these projects like Superman, obviously there's been so many before. How much are you, like, doing your own research and bringing what's already been out there versus bringing your own life into it?
- [58:49]
James Gunn
Well, I think for me, really, the fun thing with doing Superman was about creating the version that I loved from the comics. And so, you know, people always asked me with Guardians, what were the most influential comics? And I would be like, well, you know, these. Abnet Lanning and this and that. But really, it was much more. The things that were the most influential on the Guardians were other movies, were space fantasy films and, you know, you know, Forbidden Planet and Star wars and these other things with Superman, it's not that people ask me, what movies are you, you know, most influenced by? And I'm like, not. It's not really movies. It's really trying to create a live action comic book. It's. It's All Star Superman. It's Superman for All Seasons. It's all of these, you know, comics that I'm trying to bring to life in a film in a way that hasn't really been done before, to create a true comic book movie. Whereas I feel like in the Guardians, I almost was running from comic book movie for some reason. I'm not even sure. I really loved being called a comic book movie, even though that's stupid because it is a comic book movie. But with this, I really wanted to create a true comic book move.
- [59:57]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Is it true that you saw David in the Pearl and thought he'd be a great Superman?
- [60:01]
James Gunn
Oh, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw David in Pearl and I was like, it wasn't. I thought he would be a great Superman, but he was on my radar. And I thought, oh, that guy could be Superman. It seems like a good actor. I didn't have high hopes, frankly, because he's very serious in Pearl, and our Superman is light on his feet. He's got a good sense of humor. He's a funny guy.
- [60:23]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
And he's quirky.
- [60:24]
James Gunn
Yeah, he's quirky. But as soon as he auditioned, I was like, oh, my God, he's funny, he's charming. It's. I couldn't believe it. I was really, really shocked.
- [60:35]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
He had to have been his whole life been told he looked like Clark Kent.
- [60:38]
James Gunn
You know, like, when he got older, people started telling him, you know, he was like Superman.
- [60:44]
Nick Viall
He almost looked more like Clark Kent than Superman.
- [60:46]
James Gunn
Yeah, he did, because he's a lot skinnier then, too. Yeah.
- [60:50]
Nick Viall
It was interesting hearing you talk about you didn't want Guardians to be like a comic book movie. But it's like, when I was watching Superman, it's just like. I think from the opening credits, I can be like, this is a. This is a James Gunn movie. I just. Something about the way you shoot it. But I think what I love most about it, again, I don't know if it's intentional, because I just feel like you don't. Again, you don't have to be a comic book fan to love your movies, because I do feel like it connects with people. It's a drama. It's. You know, it's. It's a. It can be a family show depending on Peacemaker.
- [61:22]
James Gunn
Yeah.
- [61:22]
Nick Viall
For adults only. But I guess my question is, was it intentional? As someone who likes, you know, as a decision maker, you do have to worry about the bottom line. You do have to worry about, you know, not just attracting, you know, not just appealing to the die hard fans. So when you're writing it, are you hoping to have a project that, you know, you don't have to know the comic books and you can like, you know, for me, like I, I've always been in these types of movies. I want to be able to bring my wife and say, you're going to enjoy this. You're going to have fun.
- [61:51]
James Gunn
And 1000.
- [61:52]
Nick Viall
And that's what I love about your movies is I feel like anytime I recommend it, I don't have to be like, no, you have to watch. Yeah, you have to be a big.
- [62:00]
James Gunn
I'm really, I'm trying to be real careful about that with telling stories that are relatable by anyone, you know. And I've had so many like grandmas coming up and tell me how much they like Superman. They don't like, they didn't even like the original super, but they like, they like, they love, you know, the, the relationships they love, the people they love, the message of kindness in the movie. Movie. That's the thing that speaks to so many people. That's been really cool. And likewise, I'm also trying to be really careful of this is a connected universe with stories that lead to each other. But also every single story needs to be understood by just watching it. I don't want it to feel like homework.
- [62:41]
Nick Viall
That's the thing. Because I feel like Marvel has, I feel like they've struggled with that.
- [62:45]
James Gunn
I mean, I think they've struggled with people feeling like that, whether that's actually the reality or not, you know, But I, you know, I want people to, they should be able to see Superman and then go see Superman and be okay. I did, you know, listen, Superman comes out on video, on home video today. Yeah. And the reason I let it come out early because it wasn't going to come out till later is because of Peacemaker. Because I wanted to give Peacemaker the best chance it could possibly have. I think also people are starting to see how the hype around Peacemaker, so I think everybody's starting to get it at Warner Brothers Discovery. So it's about really allowing giving Peacemaker the best step forward. But you don't need to have seen Superman to watch Peacemaker. We explain it all for you. It's all there there's background and it connects. And you're going to have more fun if you watch Superman because there's characters from Superman that are in Peacemaker and it's. The stories are connected and then that story is connected to the next Superman.
- [63:40]
Nick Viall
Yeah.
- [63:40]
James Gunn
So they're, they're all, you know, connected. But it's, but I, I am really aware of making things okay by themselves.
- [63:47]
Nick Viall
Yeah. Like you said it, you definitely don't have to watch it to get it, but if you do, you feel like you're, you're in on it. You know, you feel like, like you get it. You're like, oh, that's an extra joke. That's like, it's great.
- [63:59]
James Gunn
It's gravy.
- [64:00]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Yeah, it's good callbacks.
- [64:01]
Nick Viall
Yeah, it's fun callbacks.
- [64:02]
James Gunn
Yeah.
- [64:03]
Nick Viall
Recently, the Internet, it's gone viral. A moment when you guys were shooting Superman, a conversation.
- [64:09]
James Gunn
Oh, that's the craziest thing. Yeah, yeah, that's the craziest thing. That was seriously one of my favorite moments ever directing a movie. And I walked off and, you know, I got, David and I both got teary eyed and David wrote me that night. And then the next day I said, that was really amazing. I'm like, I knew that we were, we were shooting with our actual cameras at the time. I'm like, can we get the tape of like that conversation between me and David? Because there's the part that isn't viral is that before that moment there was a whole. I talk in what we call God Mike. And I'm speaking to this God Mike. And then it's on stage and everybody's listening. And it's like, when you're on my movies, you have to get used to, like, there's no secrets, right? Like, if I'm giving you direction, everybody's going to want you. So, so David is out there. So David and I are sort of having this, you know, argument that is, you know, a healthy argument. But he's, he's saying what his feelings are yelling up at the sky, like he's actually talking to God. And then I'm saying, no, no, no, because of this and this. Then he finally walked out. And the part when he finally walked out is the part that went viral. But I said to Michael, who's sitting over there, I said, do we have the tapes? Because we were shooting when he started arguing with me. He had stopped himself in the middle of the speech and said, he's like, this doesn't feel right. And I'm like, do we have the Tapes. And he goes, not only do we have the tapes, Jeremy, who's been my videographer since Guardians 1, filmed the entire thing. And I was like, what? And I'm like, this incredibly intimate, special moment was all on film, and I couldn't believe it. I had no idea that Jeremy was there until the next day. And so that's the moment that was captured. I don't know what the question was around that.
- [65:55]
Nick Viall
Well, now that you answered that, now I have more questions. But why did it mean so much to you to want to put that out there? Because I'm watching it, and that's a vulnerable moment.
- [66:04]
James Gunn
I didn't put it out there. They made a mistake. But anyway, whatever the case, no, I knew it was in the documentary. I watched the documentary, and that's out. And people can watch that as part of the. The, you know, the. The home video offerings. But what was important to me about it was I learned something. So sometimes David would be frustrating to me because he has so many questions, and he's really stubborn, and I love. I love him to death, but he's just. Is always asking questions. Whereas I am used to Chris Pratt and John Cena as my leads who are like, jump off the bridge. You know, never questioned anything. And so that is probably an unfair expectation of actors on my part. But that's what it's been like. Even, like Sylvester and Stallone and stuff, like, they're always like. So they always just kind of go with the flow. And. And. And David is not like that. He's a million questions. So is Rachel, frankly. They're both have a bunch of questions. Rachel's much easier than David, but in that moment, David's asking those questions. So what happened was before that, there's this big speech at the end of the movie that David needs to give. And I'm like, if this speech doesn't work, the movie doesn't work. It's the end of the third act. It's like he's explaining who he is and what the importance of Superman is. I'm like, if it doesn't work, the movie's not going to work. And so he comes out and he does the performance. And I'm like, oh, thank God. He did a great job. He had it totally down. It was really impassioned. It was really good, but it was quiet. He delivered it quietly. And I said, david, do it again, but just do it more passionately and louder. And he said, okay. And he did it again, and he did it the way I wanted. And I'm like that was better than the way he did it. The other thing, by the way, is that not only did he have to give this speech, it was a complicated shot because we pull back with Superman as he's saying the speech. And then I swing over to Lex and Nick needs to give a speech. And then we curl around Nick as he comes around. And then Nick gets hit and he has to, at the exact right time with the camera, move and jerk.
- [68:29]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
This is like a one shot.
- [68:31]
James Gunn
So it's one shot and they all. So he had to do the speech perfectly. Nick had. Nick, the unsung hero is who delivered his speech perfectly every time. I don't even talk about Nick. So he's incredible. He's the best. I mean, so, you know, Andy also, he had to do this timing thing. So the camera operator, Henry and him had to do this, the same thing at the same time. It was really hard. And so we did again and it was good, but the timing wasn't exactly right. And so I said, do it again like that. And David said, okay. And then he started delivering it, and that's when he stopped. He's like James. But I don't feel it because I had this conversation with my dad and I didn't, you know, don't I? Aren't I healed now? Aren't I? Okay? And then basically that's when the conversation happened, the gist of which was, yes, logically, you know that you're okay. Logically, you know that you're not a piece of crap like Lex Luthor says you are. But it doesn't mean you don't feel it. You're still feeling it. You still feel hurt by that. And so your feelings are still there. So just because, you know, logically, one thing doesn't mean you're healed and doesn't mean. And also that's okay because you are human. And that's what we are. We're going to have our feelings hurt. It's not a weakness to have your feelings hurt. It's just having your feelings hurt. You know, it's not a weakness to be afraid.
- [69:53]
Nick Viall
I just love that part of the movie. Just because I was thinking about it and we were just like, when was the last time I saw a superhero say, my feelings are hurt?
- [70:00]
James Gunn
Yeah.
- [70:00]
Nick Viall
Or just acknowledge it. That's just not even in, like, the comic book lexicon, so to speak. And I just love the way it humanizes the characters. I just. I don't know, maybe that's just why I've always connected with movies and Work, but thanks.
- [70:15]
James Gunn
I mean, I think that's true. I love that about him. And I love, you know, the compassion towards Lex, saying, I know you're something special, Lex. You know, the thing I really hope is that someday you see that you being human. Lex is a superhero. He's smart enough that he's probably a metahuman in some ways, right? So he's like. He wants Lex to be good still. And that's what the. That's the point of that last shot where Lex is just roiling and so angry and hurt. And he looks up at Superman and, you know, Lex isn't done in that moment. And then this is all spoiler stuff, I guess. And then Lex. And then Superman looks back and he feels sorry for Lex because he's in hell. And Superman can see that. So how can he really hate this guy who's in hell?
- [71:04]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
How do you strike the balance of, like, when you have an actor like David being like, hey, I feel like I should deliver it this way, but you know, how you wrote it. How do you strike the balance of, like.
- [71:14]
James Gunn
Well, let me say. Let me say something about David that's. That's important because I. I make jokes about David all the time, but I love him. And the thing I learned on that day was that his way was. Was great. My way was better. But when he understood what I. Where I was coming from, it was even better. And so David taught me something that day. And that's the important part of. That's why I love the moment so much and why I was so moved by the whole thing. But also the other thing I will say about David is David will shut up when I tell him to shut up. So occasionally he'll have a bunch of questions, and I'll be like, David. And he's like, okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I know I'm irritating. And then he goes and he does. Does it whatever I want. So he has a moment in which he'll just go for what I ask him to do. It's not like he just is. Will fight until the end of time for something. With another director he might, but with me, he doesn't, you know, and so he knows at the end of the day that I see the big picture and he doesn't, you know, he knows that. So he's just taking care of his performance and taking care of the movie the best he can. And I completely appreciate it. He is a great collaborator.
- [72:28]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
How much do you allow the actors to pick your brain on these characters to, like, get the most out of.
- [72:34]
James Gunn
What you've written as much as they need to. I mean, you know, it's like there's, you know, I mean, they always think they're irritating me, but they aren't, you know, because Gabby and Sarah, you know, you know, Eve and the Engineer, they're always. They're writing me quasi. We don't want to bother you. I'm like, you're not bothered? I love these characters. I want to talk about them all the time.
- [72:52]
Nick Viall
Well, it seems like it was the way you describe it. I feel like that's something I would do because it's like, it sounds like it's part of David's process because if he doesn't understand what you're trying to get across, it's not going to happen. He can't perform it right. And maybe other actors can just act it out regardless, just read it. And he's just like, I need to feel it or relate to that feeling.
- [73:12]
James Gunn
And there will be times when I will say to David, you don't need to understand it. Just go do what I'm saying. And he'll do that at the end of the day. But, you know, along the ride, he's trying to take care of the. Everything the best he can, and the movie's better for him. I mean, the dude is a movie star. Like, you know, he is a movie star, and so whatever he's doing is working spectacularly well. I think he's. He's an incredible human being, an incredible guy, and I make fun of him all the time for being irritating. And I feel a little bad about it because he's a great guy. Yeah. But he is irritating.
- [73:48]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Going back a little bit in your iconic career that you've had. Iconic.
- [73:54]
James Gunn
Yeah.
- [73:54]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Legendary.
- [73:55]
Nick Viall
It's pretty good.
- [73:55]
James Gunn
Pretty good. Pretty good.
- [73:57]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
With Scooby Doo, did you. With Scooby Doo, did you watch, like, all, you know, every episode?
- [74:04]
James Gunn
I was a huge Scooby Doo fan growing up.
- [74:05]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Okay.
- [74:06]
James Gunn
And then I went back and rewatched all the cartoons and stuff.
- [74:08]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Before you wrote the movies.
- [74:09]
James Gunn
Before I wrote the movies, yeah.
- [74:10]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Do you remember what your notes were like for the movies?
- [74:13]
James Gunn
They were nightmarish. It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. On the first movie, it was a nightmare. The second movie, there was nothing. Second movie was fine. But the. But the first movie was. Was a nightmare. I mean, people know the first. Our first rating was rated R. Yeah. And it was. It was about something stupid. It was not an R rated movie. And we just had to Cut that one thing. And then it was PG13. But we had written, you know, and directed with Raja, a movie that was for teenagers, basically, that was a little bit more like Austin Powers. It was more risque. Yeah. And they decided that this is a movie just completely family for children and everything had to be adjusted to be for kids. Now, some of it they couldn't get around, but. But a lot of stuff was like the girls cleavage was CGI'd in, you know. Oh, wow. Because they thought it was too risque. Because, you know, one person in a test audience in Sacramento is like, why are their dresses so low cut?
- [75:17]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
A lot of boobs.
- [75:18]
James Gunn
And so. Yeah, so that. So both Linda's and Sarah's cleavage was. Was cgi.
- [75:25]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Wow.
- [75:26]
Nick Viall
Well, speaking of rated R, obviously Peacemaker is more for the adults. There's obviously swearing. There's the orgy violence. There's a little bit of an orgy.
- [75:37]
James Gunn
Orgy rating.
- [75:38]
Nick Viall
In the first episode, I saw a promo with you and John saying, you can say in this video, do you.
- [75:45]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
Find that that gives you a certain.
- [75:46]
Nick Viall
Level of creative freedom? You know, especially with these universes being connected, that if you watch Peacemaker, does it allow you to, you know, just make it a little bit more real? Just a little bit more like, hey, we can kind of get into some, like, messiness or, you know, some darkness.
- [76:02]
James Gunn
Yeah.
- [76:02]
Nick Viall
That you can't with like a Superman, for sure.
- [76:05]
James Gunn
I mean, Peacemaker was always more, you know, grounded. It was always more like cinema verite in the way we shot it, in every aspect of it, you know, even though the things he's fighting against are these magical, monstrous things. So. Yeah, I mean, but I. For me, it's like making a film or a TV show is communication. I'm sitting here and I'm talking to you, and I'm not saying exactly the same things I would say if I went on Tom Segura's podcast. Because I know the audience is different. I'm not saying the same things I would say if I went on a children's show. I'm not speaking to kids. You and I have known each other for a while, so we talk in a different way than I would talk to somebody I'd never met before. It's like you're always speaking to an audience, and I think every story is like that too. So Peacemaker's for a specific audience. It's this sort of balls out, no rules and no rules in every way. I mean, so it just. It's just a different vibe to it. It's a different type of artistic story where Superman is another thing. It is made for everyone. But also that's part of the vibe is like this good natured, colorful. Like that is part of what it is and it isn't about. You know, we had some darker things in Superman that I cut out because it just didn't feel like it fit into the vibe of the story. No, not. We didn't have an orgy. There wasn't a bunch of penises. But. But yeah, I mean, they're all. Every story is different. You're speaking to a different audience. And when you speak to kids and families, you know, you're speaking a different language than when you're speaking to adults. And you know, when you have a night out with the boys, you're speaking differently than when you speak with your. Go out on a date night.
- [77:54]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Can you peel back the curtain on the orgy scene? How awkward is it? Is it. Do you have music blasting? Is it like everyone just like vibe out and like, don't even think about cameras?
- [78:05]
James Gunn
Yeah. So that song is Hardcore Superstars guest list and, and that song we blasted the whole time. But there is something that many directors have complained about called an intimacy coordinator. Do you know what an intimacy coordinator does? So an intimacy coordinator for those people who don't know is somebody who comes on set when you're doing a scene that require. Requires from. In some intimacy. Anything from like just somebody doing nudity to somebody, you know, having to kiss somebody to somebody doing simulated sex on screen. They talk to the people and the actors involved, make sure they're comfortable and aware of what is happening. This is something some old school guys have complained about. To me, it's the greatest thing in the 20th century to come out of movies, really, because you can do anything you want. So these people were hilarious. I mean, these, these guys all got paid more money to come in their, their specials. You know, I forget what the actual term is, but it's like, you know, if you cast a background extra who's playing a saxophone, they get paid more than a regular background actor. Well, if you show your penis, it's also a special, special talent.
- [79:18]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Yes, yes.
- [79:19]
James Gunn
So they, they come in and I don't have to worry about anything because I used to be sort of uncomfortable. I don't love direct, you know, telling people to, you know, have sex and okay, now grab their butt or, you know, whatever you're telling. I'm like, it's just so, you know, it's so such a weird conversation to have when you're not even totally sure people are comfortable. And so she went out. Our intimacy coordinator on that day was fantastic. And she went out and she's. She's like, what do you want to do? I'm like, well, some of the things that you see. Yeah. And, you know, I want him to dance. Like, I did that dance that the guy does. And. And. And. And she's like, got it. Great. And she's all excited, and she goes in and she tells him. She's like, are you sure you're comfortable with this? And blah, blah, this is what we want to do. And then they really go for it. And so it's. It's a really. It's a great, Great. It's a great thing. And I'm so grateful for those people now. Sometimes they're weird. Like, they're not always the best. Just like, nobody at their job is always the best.
- [80:23]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Right.
- [80:23]
James Gunn
But especially the woman.
- [80:25]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
How did you describe the threesome with the bounce? The woman on top just bouncing.
- [80:32]
James Gunn
So that was like. So John's sitting in this chair, and then we had him on this lazy Susan. Basically, we had a dual, like, so the grips, long before this. You know, I'm like, okay. So I went to the grips, and I'm like, this is like two weeks before this. I'm like, okay, I want to do this orgy scene, and in any orgy scene, I want John in the middle on a chair, and his lazy Susan's gonna go in one direction, and then I want a circle around that with people having sex, and that's gonna go in a different direction, and then we're gonna go around that circle in an opposite direction so that we have this sort of, you know, crazy daisy wheel of sex. And. And so. And so the grips were so excited about that because they love doing creative stuff. And so they. They created this thing, and they were excited to show it to me and barely fit in that house, but, yeah. And so then, yeah, I would say, you know, we want this. This. These two guys are having sex, and this is a threesome, and this guy's going to be masturbating. This is like, we just come in, look at the next person. I don't know.
- [81:38]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
It's like, you know, how crazy can we get?
- [81:41]
James Gunn
So some of it was them coming up with stuff, and some of it was me saying, well, could they do this instead? You know? And, you know, it's just. It's a collaboration, like, everything. And those people were amazing.
- [81:53]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
It takes.
- [81:53]
James Gunn
It takes a while because one of the things that you have to do is in between takes, they immediately put on their. Their clothes back on. So you do that, you do the scene. And I think in the old days, we all just. Everybody would just been making all day. But now there's like, you know, people are, you know, more attentive to people's feelings in the situation. And so in between takes, it's not a gawk. All it's like everybody gets. The people run out with the robes and giving them the robes, and they put on their robes and that's that. And it's a close set. You know, it's not. It's just the necessary people in the tent watching. And, you know, I don't think I was ever even on set when. When people were naked, really, I was always off. You know, just there's a little tent outside the house.
- [82:41]
Nick Viall
How do you feel about improv or improving certain scenes? Obviously, writing it, directing it. I'm sure every word, every line is very intentional. But are there ever moments where you allow your actors to play around and try some stuff out?
- [82:55]
James Gunn
Sometimes they say things in a little bit of a loose way. Sometimes it really frustrates me, frankly, because sometimes they say things in a loose way. And on the day, you know, Michael will come up and say they're not saying exactly the line that you had written. And I'm like, I think it's okay. And I let it go. And then we get to the cutting stage, and I'm like, that's why. Oh, man. The reason I had them say that line that way is because of this, you know, this thing. And they said it minorly different, you know, and it really. So I don't love it, but there are times. First of all, the biggest improviser on set is me. So I am always, you know, the. The joke of the. The Peacemaker gang have. And actually, every person. Dave Batiste always jokes about everybody because I start giving them extra lines to say, but it's always extras to what the script is usually or alternate funny things. And I. I can't stop laughing when I'm on the God mic because I'm thinking of it as I'm saying it, and I'm trying to. To get out what I'm saying. And then, of course, then they all start laughing, and they don't even know what I'm gonna say. It's just me giggling like a N in the corner and through the God. And so I. I improvise the most. But also, you know, John Improv John will come in with, like, Lists of things he's going to do, but it's always an addition. It isn't like. It's not changing the dialogue.
- [84:13]
Nick Viall
It's an also.
- [84:14]
James Gunn
It's an also.
- [84:15]
Nick Viall
Yeah. Are there any actors out there that you haven't had a chance to work with that it would be something you've thought about or you. You said, hey, I would love a chance to work with this particular person.
- [84:27]
James Gunn
I mean, I would love to work with, you know, all sorts of people. Yeah, Meryl Streep I would love to work with. You know, she's. She just once sent word that she would love to work with me, and I'm like, oh, that's. That would be incredible. I love Meryl Streep. You know, she's one of the greatest actors ever. There's a million actors I'd love to work with and quite a few I would never work with.
- [84:45]
Nick Viall
I want to ask you who those are.
- [84:46]
James Gunn
I'll tell you afterwards.
- [84:47]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Yeah.
- [84:48]
James Gunn
It's a long list.
- [84:49]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
I want to know.
- [84:50]
James Gunn
It's a long list. We were going through, like, last night. My. My buddy is putting together a movie and he has a list of male actors that are in that range of doing lower budget movies. So well known, but not, you know, it's not Tom Cruise or the Rock. It's like people who are in this middle range and we're going through, and I'm saying, kill that one, kill that one, kill that one, kill that one. It's about 20%.
- [85:14]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
But is that coming from people that you've just seen work or that you've worked with personally or that, like, it's.
- [85:21]
James Gunn
Almost all people that. I know many people who have worked with him, not just one who say they are giant pains.
- [85:28]
Nick Viall
Okay. So, yeah, I was gonna. What's the why behind you might feel that way?
- [85:32]
James Gunn
I have a no a hole policy. Okay. If somebody's an a hole, the only exception is Frank Grillo. I'll work with him forever. But other than Frank Grill. Frank Grillo is the only a hole I work with.
- [85:41]
Nick Viall
When you say a hole, that more like kind of diva quality where it's just more they.
- [85:46]
James Gunn
Yes. If they're mean to crew members, boom, they're out. If they want to change everything, they're out. If they're just pains in the asses, they're out. I mean, it's just. But mostly it's if they're mean, okay. If they're mean, I just don't want to have to deal with it. Life is too short. I'd rather have an actor who's not as good. But also, but a lot of times, but also there's a lot of guys that are, that are on this list who are people that cost the production millions of dollars because of being late every day. So that's another thing. If you're late every day, you can't deal with me, man. I mean, I do 10 hour days. We're done. Like, I don't sit around. I'm not a 14, 16 hour. I mean, once a movie we go, you know, longer, you know, to, you know, twice a movie. But mostly I stay to my schedule and I'm always under budget. And that's important to me. And it's important to me and my crew who I work with repeatedly that they get to go home and see their kids and have their family lives and that they can get done with the filming of the show in a reasonable amount of time. And so if you're going to be showing up three hours late, I mean, screw, you're a jerk. So I just don't want to work with you.
- [86:58]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
You seem just like such a very loyal guy. I mean, it's like you've brought all of these people who've been with you for years or friends of yours for years. You brought everyone up with you. Is that something that you just always wanted to do?
- [87:12]
James Gunn
Yeah. I mean, I actually think I'm loyal to a fault. I actually am trying to. This is a weird thing to say. I'm trying to be a little less loyal. And what I mean by that is I work with the same people. I've had the same agent and manager and lawyer since 1998. Wow. Most everyone I've worked with, I've worked with again and again. And I have a really hard time saying, okay, well, maybe just this movie, I want to do it with a different. I'll say production designer because my production designer isn't changing. It's Beth Nichol. But like, maybe I want to do this movie with a different production design. Even though I love Beth, maybe I want to do this movie with a different production designer to give it a different look. And I can never bring myself to do that. I have to be able to do that. It's really. I never want to hurt anybody's feelings because I love these people. But it's. I also care about the movie. So it's. It's hard. Yeah. Yeah.
- [88:09]
Nick Viall
It must be a challenge because I. On the flip side, the good part of the loyalty is like, you, you have your wife, but like, you've created this community, you've provide for your friends in a way not that, you know, I'm sure they'd be fine, I guess, in some ways without you. But, like, there must give. That must give you a sense of pride and meaning behind what you do. I don't know, like, for me, just taking care of my family. I love my job. I love what we do. I love what I've created. But the purpose behind it is all to me about my community, my family, like my people. And I don't know, to me, the why behind why you have that loyalty, I'm sure must be. That gives you that sense of purpose.
- [88:49]
James Gunn
Well, maybe I think that's part of it. But I, like, this is my life. I mean, I'm working all the time. And so. So when I walk on set in Atlanta with my crew, that's my family. And it's like, I want. They know me. They've all worked with me numerous times. You know, people love working on my sets. No, nobody thinks I'm easy, by the way. This is not to say that I'm not that I'm easy. I am. I'm hard. I'm just telling you I'm tough, and everyone knows that, but I'm never mean. You know, I just am tough because I expect the best. And I. And I'm really blunt. Hunt with people, and if something isn't working, I absolutely just tell them.
- [89:31]
Nick Viall
And you just. I'm assuming that's because you just, you know what they're capable of and. Or what you want or what.
- [89:35]
James Gunn
I mean, it's what I want. I'm trying to make the movie that I want to make sure.
- [89:38]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Yeah.
- [89:39]
James Gunn
And if it's not going my way, I'm not that happy. And so I. I'm. I can be tough. And if somebody's not pulling their weight, then I do fire them. Like, they're gone. And so it's not like I'm loyal, like, you know, like a maniac. It's just. I think that I can probably change things up a little more in some ways.
- [90:00]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
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- [93:05]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
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- [93:59]
Nick Viall
Before we let you go, I. I do have to ask since my audience loves reality tv.
- [94:04]
James Gunn
I know we haven't talked about reality TV at all.
- [94:07]
Nick Viall
What? What are you guys watching? You and Jen these days?
- [94:10]
James Gunn
Okay, let me be clear. It's not what we're watching because Jen only watches half the amount of reality tv. So what we do is we, you know, I work all day. Like now when I'm writing, right? I work all day. Then Jen and I eat and then we go downstairs, we watch a TV show or two. Then she goes to sleep and then I smoke a cigar and continue watching reality tv. And so I watch, watch a bunch of shows that she doesn't watch, like, Love Island. Like, Jen's doesn't watch Love Island. But I watch every Love Island.
- [94:42]
Nick Viall
You watch them all?
- [94:43]
James Gunn
Watch them all. I watch them all now. I'm not done with. I. I think I've got spoiled on who wins. Uk.
- [94:50]
Nick Viall
Yeah, I'll go uk.
- [94:50]
James Gunn
I'm done with the US Okay. I'm most the way through UK And I think I know who wins, but. And I think it's. I'm pretty happy about that. Together, though, we watch Big Brother. Okay, so we're watching Big Brother now. Were frustrated with Rachel. I've become online friends with Taylor. Do you know Taylor, who won a couple of seasons ago? And I told her I was going on your show, and she said because she wants me to go on the Big Brother thing. And I'm like, yeah, but I'm gonna go with Nick and talk about reality tv. And she goes, oh, Nick. Nick can. She's. We gotta talk deep. We gotta talk deep. She reminds me of you, actually, in your season because you were unjustly picked on. In the first season of the Bachelor. I felt like. Like just. Just totally unjustly picked on. And she was the same way on her season of Big Brother in a much more mean way, even. And they were just picking on her all the time. And then she won. It was awesome.
- [95:43]
Nick Viall
Is it her? Because I'm also very blunt too, where I just like, I. I can't help but just say what I think or feel at the risk of.
- [95:50]
James Gunn
I think her strength is not immediately aware. I think she comes off first as a pretty girl, and they didn't know how strong she was, and they just thought she was because she's quieter than most of the people on the show. And they just. They kind of picked on her and bullied her. I felt like. And then she showed them all.
- [96:12]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Have you pulled any inspiration for any characters from reality tv? I mean, if you love it so much, is there any part of you that's like, I want to bring some of this into the comic book world or into anything you're creating.
- [96:25]
James Gunn
Not that I'm conscious of that I can think think of. But, you know, listen, I always, you know, I don't like when people say, you watch reality tv and this. People are gonna laugh at me. Because Love island is really. It is a lot like this. I don't watch the Kardashians. I don't like any story stuff. I like people. Things where people are competing.
- [96:45]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Experiments. They like experiments when you're messing with people.
- [96:49]
James Gunn
So I like you know, the traitors. I like. You know, I don't like bachelors much since Alon left. I wish Elan was still there. I don't think it's as great, you know, as good as.
- [96:58]
Nick Viall
Not as funny.
- [96:59]
James Gunn
It's not as funny or fun. It's like.
- [97:02]
Nick Viall
And it's too formulaic now. It's. They've just kind of gotten back to.
- [97:05]
James Gunn
They're.
- [97:06]
Nick Viall
They're not taking. I don't feel like the risks.
- [97:08]
James Gunn
Yeah.
- [97:08]
Nick Viall
That he took. That worked.
- [97:09]
James Gunn
Yeah. I hate to say that as a longtime member of Bachelor Nation, I. I don't like it.
- [97:16]
Nick Viall
As a member of Bachelor Nation, I feel the same.
- [97:18]
James Gunn
Yes.
- [97:19]
Nick Viall
Yeah.
- [97:19]
James Gunn
Yeah. So I really miss Aon, but. Yeah, so I like. I love survival. Survivor's like my all time favorite reality show, but Love Island's just the guiltiest of all pleasures because, you know, because it doesn't take much work. It's like, you know, you could miss big pieces of it if I'm on the phone or go to the bathroom or check my email or something.
- [97:39]
Nick Viall
What's your Love Island Season 7 Hot Take or what was your overall sentimental for us? Us.
- [97:46]
James Gunn
This is how much this stuff goes through me like coffee and just is out the other end because I'm trying to even remember a single, like, name one person from. From Love island usa. I just got done watching a month ago or something. Name. Oh, yeah. I hate.
- [98:01]
Nick Viall
Oh.
- [98:01]
James Gunn
Oh. I don't want to say that because I feel sorry for that girl, but how did she last so long?
- [98:07]
Nick Viall
Producers, I feel like.
- [98:08]
James Gunn
I mean, who knows? I. I don't. I feel like Nickelandria. Do we think that's a real thing? I don't it. They're still dating, right?
- [98:19]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
They are still dating.
- [98:20]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
The challenge with that world, though. They look great together.
- [98:25]
Nick Viall
I was huge fans of them individually.
- [98:27]
James Gunn
I felt zero chemistry. Now, it doesn't mean that I can feel chemistry. Yeah.
- [98:31]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
Who knows?
- [98:32]
Nick Viall
Because, like, the problem as we've talked about on the show is I didn't like. Because the show is filmed in real time, the production has the opportunity to read comments and kind of see the discourse. And I feel like a lot of fans felt like it was in overproduced in that regard, that kind of forced. What felt like a forced date in the middle of the season between Nick and Alandra.
- [98:54]
James Gunn
It wasn't as good. I mean, the previous season of Love Island USA was maybe top tier. Oh, maybe the best season of any Love island ever. Crazy. Yeah. And then this season was a little bit of a letdown after that. Oh, there's a lot of good stuff. My one hot take is the relationship that seemed the most real to me throughout the whole season was the cowboy guy, Taylor. Taylor and that girl who was Clark, who was totally nice. And they really seem to like each other in a completely real way. And then all of a sudden, he's at the bottom of everything. There is some also. I often notice that I'm on the outs on Love island whenever they do the. Because I'm a guy watching the show, so I like the guys more than the audience does. The women are constantly reinforcing these angry attitudes towards each other, and so are the guys, obviously. And I. I wish that there was. I. I just. I'm always looking for one guy or one girl who is going to say, you know, maybe you should see it from the other person's point of view for a second. Yeah. Yeah, maybe you should think about this. And it's very rare that that happens.
- [100:09]
Nick Viall
I think the challenge. Back to your questioning, which relationships are authentic? I don't think you can really know for, like, at least 12 months, because just the opportunity that it's available for these cast members in any of these relationships, the pressure to stay together, even when I was in that type of relationship, you're very confused about your real feelings because of audiences pressure and things like that. And you already know that people are telling you to give it time and you have to get to know people. So you just don't even really know what's real and what's not. And I just remember, even when filming my first season, and I've told this story before, I knew I was competitive. I knew I felt something authentic to this person, but I didn't know what feeling was stronger. My competitive nature of wanting to win versus, like. Yeah, well, I know I feel something strongly, but is it. Well, I feel. You don't. You don't even know.
- [101:08]
James Gunn
I remember, you know, Sean from the Bachelor, we were talking once because he's had a very successful relationship. Right. They're still together, I hope. Still together, very successful relationship. And I was talking to him about that, and I said, what's. What's the deal with that? And he said, basically, you just got to forget everything that happened on the show and pretend like you're starting square one. And maybe it's going to work out, maybe it's not, but you got to treat the. That person like you're just starting at square one. And I'm like, God, that's. That's true. Because the Bachelor, much more so than Love island is a fake situation. And, you know, it is an evolutionary thing that when you have a bunch of men or a bunch of women with one person, you're going to be attracted to that person in a way that you wouldn't be if it was an island full of people with different people. And so you're. It just. Evolution forces you to feel feelings for that person. Not everybody, but a lot of people. And they. They. They suddenly are the most attractive person they've ever seen because of the way the situation is set up. And that has nothing to do with what real life is like. So with Love island, at least it is like, it's different people who are vying for the guys, and so the chances of lasting in some ways is better. But also they're. They're a. Often a more crazy group.
- [102:24]
Nick Viall
Well, only in Bachelor World do you tell the person, if you end up with them, I only made out with them in the fantasy suite and expect a pat on your back. Versus yeah, those are just like, weird conversations where you're.
- [102:36]
James Gunn
Well, and why is it that there's more, you know, as many successful relationships out of Big Brother and Survivor as there are out of Bachelor? I mean, it's. They're pretty commensurate. And it's like the. Survivor is not a. You know.
- [102:48]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Do you think in. I think they're maybe 17, but Boston Rob and Amber's daughters are almost 18. Do you think we'll see a Boston Rob and Amber?
- [103:00]
James Gunn
Well, let me.
- [103:00]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
First of all, Love Child on Survivor.
- [103:03]
James Gunn
Well, I would root for them because I am an absolute Boston Rob superfan. Like Boston Rob is. Besides Nick. After Nick. Yes. Thank you.
- [103:14]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Thank you.
- [103:15]
James Gunn
My favorite reality show contestant of all time, and I will watch any reality show that Boston Rob is on. So he's on the Traders. I watch it. Dealer, don't know, Deal Island. I will watch that. Which, by the way, is a great reality show. I will. Well, especially because that guy won, like. How much did he win? He won, like, 8 million.
- [103:36]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Crazy.
- [103:36]
James Gunn
Yeah, I was like, I was just looking at, like, I was watching it like a producer, where he got up to so much money that I was like, like, oh, my God, they gotta be killing.
- [103:46]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
They gotta pull out.
- [103:47]
James Gunn
Yeah. They gotta be dying right now. The movie, the show's budget just went up probably by $6 million more than what they anticipated. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. Le Boss robust. I don't know anything about his daughters. Okay, okay.
- [104:01]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Would you do any. Would you. Out of Big Brother, Survivor, Traders, any of those kind of competition shows? Would you do any.
- [104:08]
James Gunn
Okay, I would not. But I would love to do traders because I played Mafia for many years and I was very. I was good at Mafia. Okay. There was a time when it was really popular in LA and I was playing like three or four times a week at different people's homes.
- [104:24]
Nick Viall
So would you want to be a trader or would you want to be a faithful trader? Yeah, it would be fun to hunt the traders, though. And I feel like.
- [104:31]
James Gunn
Yeah, I think.
- [104:32]
Nick Viall
I feel like I'd be good at.
- [104:33]
James Gunn
I know, but that. But that. The problem with the trait, and this is the flaw. There's a couple flaws with the traders. The flaw with the traders is it doesn't serve you to hunt the traders if you.
- [104:43]
Nick Viall
Not you. Not you don't want to tell anyone to hunt you.
- [104:46]
James Gunn
That's.
- [104:46]
Nick Viall
You have to find out who they are and become. And then suddenly pretend like you like.
- [104:50]
James Gunn
Them until the end.
- [104:51]
Nick Viall
Yes.
- [104:52]
James Gunn
That's the game. And so that's not a great game when you think about it. It's much more fun. If there was more. If there was more value to hunting the traders, I would be worried.
- [105:01]
Nick Viall
I have a hard time lying. I feel like I have a bad poker phase. Poker phase.
- [105:05]
James Gunn
I just don't think of it as lying. I. You know, I do not. I don't think of it as lying, but who knows? I'm. I'm. I'm used to playing Mafia for, you know, a couple hours at a time. Not for week.
- [105:16]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Right.
- [105:17]
James Gunn
I don't think it's there.
- [105:19]
Nick Viall
I think it's a month.
- [105:20]
James Gunn
Really? Yeah. Wow.
- [105:22]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
Three or four weeks.
- [105:22]
James Gunn
Wow.
- [105:23]
Nick Viall
Yeah.
- [105:23]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Yeah.
- [105:24]
Nick Viall
I was supposed to do it season three, but it had to pass.
- [105:26]
James Gunn
You didn't do it?
- [105:28]
Nick Viall
Not season four.
- [105:29]
James Gunn
I like how you're whispering on the podcast.
- [105:31]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
I know.
- [105:34]
James Gunn
But I would love for you to do.
- [105:35]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
Do it someday. I think I will.
- [105:36]
Nick Viall
I was going to do it, and then Nelly and I got hired to host a new show for Netflix that we're doing. Oh, well, that's attraction.
- [105:42]
James Gunn
Oh, cool.
- [105:42]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Dating show around age gaps.
- [105:44]
James Gunn
Oh, wow.
- [105:45]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Differences.
- [105:45]
James Gunn
Yeah, Hopefully.
- [105:47]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Maybe that'll be your new. Yeah, that'll be your new cigar show.
- [105:52]
Nick Viall
Wouldn't say it's a. It's more. Are you a Love is Blind fan?
- [105:55]
James Gunn
Off and on. Okay. I like. Yeah, I like Love is Blind. It's weird because I'm not sure it doesn't get worse as the season goes on, but I like it. I do like it. You know, I loved, like, certain seasons, like, of other countries. Like, I love the Japanese lettuce. Blind because it's so tame and weird compared to ours. But also more interesting. Devil's Plan. You've watched that one, the Korean show on Netflix. That's a, That's a great. It's a really. It's all these, these people who are kind of well known people in Korea, and they come into this game show and they have these incredible, incredibly complicated, difficult games that they play, you know, and get eliminated. And it's, it's. It's like the, it's the really smart person's reality show. It's. It's really fun.
- [106:42]
Nick Viall
Yeah.
- [106:43]
James Gunn
You.
- [106:43]
Nick Viall
I remember, like, now that we're sitting here, like, having my back when I was in on Bachelor in Paradise, it. It meant a lot at the time because not a lot of people at the time had my back, but I felt like, I felt like people started to understand just me or. And I feel like you get. You gave them permission when, like, you came on after paradise and you were kind of giving your commentary.
- [107:03]
James Gunn
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah.
- [107:07]
Nick Viall
And I was like, someone gets me.
- [107:09]
James Gunn
That's when I told Ashley. I told Ashley she was crazy.
- [107:13]
Nick Viall
Yeah.
- [107:14]
James Gunn
I'm not. Jared really likes me. And I'm like, you're crazy. He doesn't like you. And now they're married. And I know, I know those guys, but, you know, I know Jared. And Jared was like, he came by the set of Peacemaker and. Oh, did he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's. He's got a little cameo. That's a reveal here. But like. Yeah, he's. He's in the show. Yeah, yeah.
- [107:33]
Nick Viall
He didn't tell me that.
- [107:34]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
So he does keep a secret.
- [107:36]
James Gunn
There you go.
- [107:37]
Nick Viall
That's incredible. Well, I, I will stand by because I. I've famously told Ashley you'll never be with him only for them to be together.
- [107:45]
James Gunn
Yes.
- [107:45]
Nick Viall
Jared was living with me at, at the time they were secretly dating and he wouldn't tell me.
- [107:50]
James Gunn
Oh, my gosh.
- [107:51]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
But he.
- [107:52]
Nick Viall
I still think we were right in a sense that, like, she, she had to accept they would never be together. And it was before. It wasn't until she said, screw this guy.
- [108:03]
James Gunn
Yeah.
- [108:03]
Nick Viall
Before Jared had to, like, wake up and, and kind of realize what was in front of his face. It's similar to like, Natalie and me when we were dating for nine months and I was like, I don't know. I don't know if I could do this. I don't know. I'm like, you're younger than me. I'm so self conscious. And she's like, fuck this guy. And then I was like, please, I'm so sorry.
- [108:21]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
So, yeah, sometimes you have to.
- [108:23]
Nick Viall
I think you're sometimes blind, you know, with. With what's right in front of you.
- [108:29]
James Gunn
Sometimes. Yeah. But also, we were wrong.
- [108:31]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Yeah, y' all were wrong. At the end of the day.
- [108:34]
James Gunn
We were wrong. We were wrong. Ashley was right. She's more wise than all of us put together. She's a.
- [108:40]
Nick Viall
She's gonna be a housewife.
- [108:42]
James Gunn
What?
- [108:42]
Nick Viall
She's gonna be a housewife.
- [108:43]
James Gunn
Oh, my God.
- [108:45]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Island.
- [108:45]
James Gunn
Oh, really?
- [108:46]
Nick Viall
That. There she's been.
- [108:48]
James Gunn
Oh, my God.
- [108:48]
Nick Viall
Yeah.
- [108:49]
James Gunn
Which I'm very. But see, those are the shows I don't watch because they're not. There's no. You can't win any money.
- [108:54]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
Yeah, that's true.
- [108:56]
James Gunn
I like things where you can win money or where they make you, you know, wear pig suits or, you know, stuff where I like, I don't know, milk. I don't like just watching people be crazy living life.
- [109:07]
Co-host/Interviewer (Possibly Natalie or another co-host)
You'll have to dabble into the Real Housewives of Rhode Island.
- [109:10]
James Gunn
Maybe only because I like Ashley James.
- [109:14]
Nick Viall
This has been so much fun, man.
- [109:16]
James Gunn
Go. Great.
- [109:16]
Nick Viall
Appreciate you coming on. I'm excited for people to watch Peacemaker.
- [109:21]
James Gunn
It comes out August 21st. So if today is August 21st, it is out today.
- [109:26]
Nick Viall
Comes out tomorrow for anyone listening. Comes out tomorrow. It's on HBO Max. Or is it. Do they call it HBO Max now?
- [109:32]
James Gunn
HBO Max.
- [109:34]
Nick Viall
I have two different apps now that say HBO Max. Because they keep changing and I'm.
- [109:37]
James Gunn
It is. It will think it will remain HBO Max. I don't think they're going to change the name again.
- [109:43]
Nick Viall
Well, it's out now. It's incredible, guys. Watch it. Obviously, if you're a comic book fan, you'll love it. If you're not a comic book fan, you'll love it. For the ladies out there, I promise you, if your man is interested in it, you should sit down and watch it with them. It's fun, it's funny, it's entertaining. I'm such a huge fan of that franchise. So I just want to thank you you for coming on, man. It's been fun talking with you. Yeah.
- [110:07]
James Gunn
Just. I'm glad we finally got to do this after only a thousand episodes. Almost a thousand episodes.
- [110:15]
Nick Viall
I'm glad it was now.
- [110:16]
James Gunn
Yeah.
- [110:17]
Nick Viall
Yeah. I've always, like, when I started the show, I've kind of like you. It's just I gotta said I always had this kind of delusional belief in myself, even though sometimes when I get to a certain spot. I. I will have for a moment that kind of of imposter syndrome where I'll be like, wait, I'm. What am I doing here? Maybe I do suck. But yeah, I always felt like I was. I'm self aware enough to like when I started my project. I have to earn the ability to have the right to have certain conversations with certain people. But anyways, it's been great to, even though I've known you for a while, to be able to have this conversation with you on my show. And I appreciate you coming on, man. And it's been a lot of fun.
- [110:54]
James Gunn
Great. Thank you guys. Yay.
- [110:55]
Nick Viall
Well, thank you guys for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.
- [111:11]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
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- [111:35]
James Gunn
Let me point something out.
- [111:36]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great.
- [111:38]
James Gunn
You love the host.
- [111:39]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to Libsyn ads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.