E987 - Daniel vs Lucy: Perfect Match Fallout, RHOM, RHOC, Tom Sandoval on AGT & The Fake Justin Bieber

Summary

The Viall Files – E987 Detailed Summary

Episode: Daniel vs Lucy: Perfect Match Fallout, RHOM, RHOC, Tom Sandoval on AGT & The Fake Justin Bieber
Air Date: August 21, 2025
Host: Nick Viall (with Natalie Joy, Scott, Sandy, Lucy, and guest appearances by Daniel and others)

Overview

This Reality Recap episode is a packed “He Said, She Said” breakdown, focusing heavily on the fallout between Daniel and Lucy, the controversial winning couple on Netflix’s Perfect Match. The episode also delivers recaps and spicy commentary on the chaos-filled latest episodes of Real Housewives of Orange County and Real Housewives of Miami, dives into Tom Sandoval's run on America’s Got Talent, and rounds things out with some jaw-dropping celebrity headlines — notably a wild story of a Justin Bieber impersonator.
Buckle up for candid interviews, messy reality TV analysis, hot takes from fans, and signature witty banter from Nick and the Household.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Intro Banter & Pop Culture Catch-Up

[01:08–04:00]

• The Household is in high spirits, riffing on each other's looks ("I Justin Biebered my wife") and recapping reality TV happenings with trademark self-deprecation and inside jokes.
• James Gunn’s recent “Going Deeper” episode is briefly mentioned, as is the upcoming Hulu reality series Love Thy Nader starring swimsuit model Brooks Nader and her three sisters.

Notable Quote:
“If you're gonna start the rainbow, you gotta finish the rainbow.” – Nick [01:32]

Justin Bieber Impersonator in Vegas

[08:09–10:24]

• The crew reacts to viral headlines of a Justin Bieber impersonator tricking a Vegas club into thinking he was the real Bieber—right down to getting matching tattoos—before racking up a $10,000 bar tab.
• Discussion turns to the ethics and weirdness of professional celebrity impersonators, with Natalie referencing legendary drag queen Derrick Barry (Britney Spears impersonator) for contrast.

Memorable Exchange:
“He went out of his way to get the same tattoo...like, you look at him and you're like...I kind of feel like this is grounds for evaluation.” – Sandy [08:46]

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Tom Sandoval on America's Got Talent

[12:51–15:02]

• Tom Sandoval's odd but attention-grabbing turn on AGT gets dissected:
  • Simon Cowell wasn’t a fan, but Sophia and Mel B were charmed.
  • Sandoval is making it to the wedding-appearance circuit and is billing $15k–$20k per event.
  • The panel jokes about alter egos and “clones,” cheekily floating the “Avril Lavigne was replaced” conspiracy for Sandoval too.

Quote:
“What if we find out that this entire time, Tom Sandoval has actually been Psalm Tandoval, and what we've been seeing is actually the clone?” – Natalie [14:11]

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Reality TV Rapid Recaps

RHOC: High Drama in New Orleans

[16:05–17:56]

• Recapped with punchy one-liners:
  • Tamara’s emotional spiral, fueled by booze (“yellow water” possibly Xanax+alcohol), leads to IG quitting the group.
  • Gretchen calls out Shannon’s DUI after Shannon grandstands about illegality.
  • Katie is being scapegoated for allegedly leaking rumors to bloggers.
• Emotional context:
  • Real-life crises (Teddi’s cancer diagnosis) are “bleeding into” on-camera drama.
  • The group debates whether Tamara deserves “grace” for her off-camera struggles, given her own record of being unmerciful to others.

Notable Quote:
“I watch the woman get baptized and then throw wine in someone’s face…so it’s like, when you see somebody’s behavior like that, I can also understand viewers being like, well, why this time?” – Sandy [18:54]

RHOM: Private Jets and Friend Fallouts

[28:03–34:44]

• Two-episode summary:
  • Wealth and generosity are questioned (Alexia accuses Stephanie of “buying friends” with private jets).
  • Larsa beefs with Lisa for still following her ex Marcus online—“would unfollow my grandfather [if he broke up with my grandma] because women’s stories matter.”
  • Lisa is under emotional siege post-divorce and her dad’s passing; Larsa, tone-deaf, escalates instead of empathizes.
  • The panel reflects: Miami's chaos is "fun but unhinged," but ultimately more humorous and forgivable than OC’s darker drama.

Memorable Quote:
“It’s tough to take Larsa's side over Lisa’s... how do you not have empathy for what Lisa is going through?” – Nick [33:13]

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Deep Dive: Daniel vs Lucy – Perfect Match Fallout

Lucy Interview

[39:00–74:47]

On Rumors & Perfect Match Victory

• Freddie Rumor: Lucy and Freddie are just friends, nothing romantic.
• “Winning” Perfect Match:
  • Feels odd about the win; expects Ad and Ollie might have won had the cast seen all the footage.
  • Cites strong initial connection with Daniel but acknowledges major issues overlooked in the heat of the competition.

Red Flags and Relationship Dynamics

• Challenges:
  • Daniel's jealousy/possessiveness during the kissing challenge shocked Lucy.
  • She admits she ignored intuition/red flags because conversations away from cameras seemed calmer, and Daniel apologized with gestures (candles, cards).
• Post-Show Realities:
  • Attempted a relationship post-show (including a group “holiday”), but differences became clear:
    • Daniel's controlling behaviors (e.g., dictating how Lucy dressed, demanding read receipts stay on).
    • Lived in different countries and time zones; Lucy worked at a nightclub, creating further trust issues.
  • Lucy ended things, fearing it would grow toxic.

Key Moments:
“He told me, ‘I really don’t care that you cried.’ That’s why I walked out of the bedroom.” – Lucy [47:20]
“If that was my friend or daughter, I’d be like, no, you can’t accept that behavior.” – Lucy [58:53]

Aftermath and Growth

• No real contact now; she didn’t reply to Daniel’s apology after watching the show.
• In a new, private relationship, Lucy is emphatic that Daniel needs to work on his security and self-confidence before she’d recommend him as a boyfriend.
• On the boys’ mixer, Lucy is clear Truth or Dare is just an excuse to cheat—no ambiguity if you’re “locked off” with someone.

Quote:
“If you’re actually locked off with someone, you wouldn’t play [spin the bottle]...you wouldn’t partake.” – Lucy [72:18]

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Daniel Interview

[75:25–103:54]

On Winning, Emotions, and Accountability

• Says being there felt different—he and Lucy “felt strong” but acknowledges, “I can see how watching the show, it’s a surprise.”
• Admits he didn’t recall many moments the way they appeared on TV, specifically around making Lucy cry, but recognizes he “absolutely” overreacted (kissing challenge, decibel level confrontation).
• Blames heightened villa emotions and “old-fashioned protectiveness,” but repeatedly states, “I take full accountability.”

Quote:
“I scored a nine on the kissing challenge...I really wanted that 10 that day.” – Daniel [79:01]
“Looking back, like...your feelings aren't that important. So like, I ran out of the shower, tried to make things right. I'm not here to make excuses for myself.” – Daniel [80:46]

On Toxic Boy Behavior & The Boys Mixer

• Owns participating in Truth or Dare as “immature, bachelor party energy,” but says there was “major peer pressure”:
  • “You can see...the boys are psyching each other up: ‘Imagine what they’re doing.’ Little do we know, they’re doing nothing.” [88:44]
• Admits trying to “own up” when he returned, but concedes he left out details and failed to be forthright.

On Lucy & Their Relationship Afterwards

• They tried to make long-distance work, but time zones and lifestyle incompatibility (“she’s going out, I’m inside”) made it “just not good.”
• Downplays the “read receipts” issue Lucy raised; skirts around being controlling about clothes, says “miscommunication, maybe I say some things I mean differently.”
• On personal growth: insists he’s a loyal, reflective guy and doing the show has made him better.

Key Self-Awareness Moment:
“It’s also difficult saying ‘that’s not me’... but, yeah, in hindsight, that’s pretty ridiculous.” [83:00]

Current Status

• Now dating a “normie”—private, not in TV world.
• Says he and his sister Julia have grown much closer; she (Julia) diplomatically stands up for him, acknowledging his big ego and occasional jealousy.

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Notable Exchanges: He Said, She Said

• Both Daniel and Lucy confirm intense, immediate chemistry, but Lucy flags “resolution cycles” (fights → grand gestures → repeat), control issues, and Daniel’s inability to let her explain herself.
• Daniel acknowledges insecurity but suggests the villa amplified everything; repeatedly refuses to make excuses but is defensive about some “controlling” claims.
• Neither regrets doing the show, but Lucy would not recommend Daniel as a partner “unless he’s changed.”

He Said:
“You can lick a girl's leg up and down, but she can't laugh pretty loud? ... I see now how it looks.” – Daniel [83:16]

She Said:
“If that was my friend or my daughter, I’d be like, no, you can’t accept that behavior.” – Lucy [58:53]

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Hot Take Hotline (Mint Mobile Voicemail)

[71:04–72:45]

• A fan claims “kissing others, even in truth or dare, is cheating.”
  • Lucy and the panel agree: these games are obvious outlets for cheating when you’re ostensibly in a couple.
  • “If you’re actually locked off with someone, you wouldn’t play [spin the bottle]...You’d watch but not partake.” – Lucy

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Reality TV Meta & Final Thoughts

• Nick reflects on his own “housewives hypocrisy”—liking “messy” housewives even as he knows some are objectively “wrong.”
• Scott and Sandy joke about body dysmorphia and “facetune sabotage” on group photos.
• The group agrees: Miami is pure fun chaos, OC is more emotionally gnarly.
• Both Daniel and Lucy are in new, non-public relationships.

“I think men in 2025 are even slower to mature emotionally...and sometimes use the language of vulnerability to weaponize their insecurity.” – Nick [37:10]

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Final Quote

Nick, summing up the messy cycle of reality romance:

“I hope their perfect match is still out there. And as I reminded Daniel, if you pull the same shit, your girlfriend will be making TikToks about it if it doesn’t work out.” [107:09]

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:56: Household banter, podcast intro
• 08:09: Justin Bieber impersonator debacle
• 12:51: Tom Sandoval on AGT & AGT hot takes
• 16:05: RHOC recap and emotional debates
• 28:03: RHOM rapid recap
• 39:00: Lucy interview: Perfect Match breakdown
  • [44:53] Kissing challenge controversy
  • [48:31] Red flag: Daniel “doesn’t care” if Lucy cries
  • [53:30] Lucy on post-show breakup and Daniel’s controlling behavior
• 75:25: Daniel interview: Accountability, mixer, and post-show perspectives
  • [80:46] Admitting mistakes on kissing challenge
  • [87:12] “Bachelor party” energy at the boys’ mixer
  • [94:07] On his “old-fashioned” style vs. being possessive
• 71:04: Mint Mobile Hot Take Hotline: Is challenge kissing cheating?
• 103:54: Closing thoughts from the Household

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Takeaways

• Messy relationships on reality TV don't always translate to healthy real life — both Lucy and Daniel agree the show environment magnified issues.
• Insecurity and emotional immaturity remain Achilles’ heels for many reality TV contestants (especially men).
• Audience input adds nuance — the "cheating in games" debate is almost universally seen as bogus by “locked off” couples.
• RHOC & RHOM offer two sides of TV chaos: one raw and sometimes hard to watch, the other a campy mess everyone’s in on.
• Public vs. Private after the show: Both Daniel and Lucy have moved on with new, offline relationships — a sign perhaps real connection is easier off camera.

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For full context, listen to the episode—this summary captures the essential story arcs, drama analysis, and memorable lines to keep you in the loop on all the pop culture tea. Skip the sponsor reads: the real juice is in the interviews and recaps.

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Lucy]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another electric episode of the VI Files Reality Recap edition. I am your host, Nick, joined by my lovely, gorgeous, beautiful wife, Natalie Joy. Lovely, gorgeous, beautiful, lovely, gorgeous, beautiful. Every day.

[Lucy]

Lgbt. No teeth.

[Nick]

Lgbtq.

[Daniel]

They are in the room.

[Nick]

If you're gonna start the rainbow, you gotta finish the rainbow. Well, we have a great episode lined up for you, as always. What?

[Scott]

No, we do have a great episode.

[Nick]

Oh, my God.

[Lucy]

Always.

[Nick]

It is the he said, she said episode of the week. We always love it. He said, she said. Daniel and Lucy from Perfect Match. Your perfect match. The. The perfect match of Perfect Match.

[Scott]

I don't know if they'. They're the rest of the cast, but Perfect Match, they won.

[Natalie]

They at the time were a perfect match. And then it turned out they were.

[Nick]

They are no longer together.

[Scott]

You can't forget Scott.

[Nick]

Oh, Scott. Yeah. Scott came.

[Scott]

Scott joined.

[Nick]

Well, Daniel came with a moral support. He showed up with his friend Scott, his sister. What was her name? Lovely lady?

[Scott]

Julia.

[Sandy]

Julia.

[Scott]

I think honestly, him bringing Scott, you know, Scott sat where Justin is sitting. There is no camera on Justin, unfortunately, there was no camera on Scott, but. And Scott's facial expressions. The whole time Daniel is trying to explain himself. I mean, Scott is just dying laughing back there. And it makes you think, like, is it a crock of bullshit?

[Nick]

You know, pro, you know.

[Scott]

Makes you think.

[Lucy]

So you think about it.

[Nick]

Yeah. Well, we always love to hear opposing viewpoints. We all we did, you know, for reference, they. Well, we'll let you listen the episode, but we invited them on together. You know, a classic Sandy Nick callback from Ultimatum where we put them on the couch and the tension was palpable and awesome.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And you felt listening to it. It was the Christmas. It was our Christmas gift to you. They declined that opportunity, which says something.

[Scott]

But we did have them back to back.

[Nick]

Back to back. Yeah. Yeah.

[Scott]

So we talked. We talked to Lucy and then we were able to, you know, maybe pull some things Lucy said and ask Daniel.

[Nick]

Lucy just said.

[Sandy]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[Nick]

Yeah. Anyways, it's a great episode that is coming up shortly. We also have to get into the Real Housewives of OC And Miami. We got some great headlines for you. We're about to kick off. Before we do, just a reminder that James Gunn was with us yesterday for a great Going Deeper. If you don't know, I mean, most of you do. But for those who been living under the rock, he is one of the most talented, brilliant minds of Hollywood today. He's the head of DC Studios, writer, director of the most recent Superman Peacemaker is re.

[Scott]

Is now Suicide Squad. Suicide Squad of the Galaxy.

[Natalie]

Scooby Doo.

[Nick]

Scooby Doo. Brilliant, brilliant man. Also big reality TV Love island fan. And he has some great takes. And that is all yesterday that came out, so be sure to check it out. Manalio got mad at me yesterday. I didn't understand. I actually thought I was, like, being more manly.

[Sandy]

Okay.

[Nick]

What did you do? I apparently Justin Biebered my wife, as she claimed we had yesterday. We had coming out next week. Have an incredible Going deeper. Love Thy Nadir is a new show coming out on Hulu next week, and I think it's going to be a hit. And I think so. I feel like I know so. I was the one who jumped on the bandwagon of the secret lives of the Mormon wives before you all did. Told you it was going to be huge. It was. It is. And I think Love Thy Nader is their next Hulu's next big hit. It's the Kardashians.

[Scott]

Before y' all know, Brooks Nader, obviously size, swimsuit model, iconic model, but also recently on Dancing with the Stars had the whole, like, Brooks and Gleb of it all. She has three sisters. They're all, like, very close in age. They all live in New York City. They have a crazy fun dynamic. They're from the South. Their parents are lovely. So we had all four sisters on that's coming out next Week.

[Nick]

It's a wild, wild episode. Anywho, their premiere, it's premiering this week. They invited us to a little, like, cocktail party.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Last night we went.

[Lucy]

What was that?

[Nick]

It was great. It was great.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I just wore the same thing that.

[Scott]

He'D been wearing all day that I.

[Nick]

Wore all day, which was.

[Natalie]

Remind us.

[Scott]

Same thing. He interviewed us.

[Nick]

Jeans and a shirt.

[Natalie]

Jeans and a shirt.

[Nick]

And a boot.

[Natalie]

Yeah, and a boot.

[Lucy]

One boot.

[Nick]

And Natalie, as she does, decided to, you know, get dressed and wore a beautiful, lovely outfit. It was different from what she wore during the day. And then we got in the car and she looked at me with disgusting and she said that I Justin Biebered her.

[Scott]

Well, it was more so just like we already were with these women today. Like, they've already seen this outfit and like, we're all changing outfits. You know, you go from day to night, right? You change your outfit.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Scott]

When you have different.

[Nick]

But I'm a low maintenance girly. That's what I was thinking of is just like, you know, don't be too.

[Natalie]

You're trying to be cool, like you didn't care.

[Nick]

I feel like I'd give her the ick if I had to get all, like, fancy.

[Natalie]

Well, just maybe even switch out the T shirt.

[Lucy]

Right.

[Scott]

You know, I was like, you've been in this all day. It's like, maybe a little stinky.

[Nick]

I want to. I didn't want to trot too hard, Right?

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And it felt like I was, like, glammed. And then he was like.

[Sandy]

Well, that's what I was going to ask. Did it look like you guys were going to the same place?

[Scott]

No, Nick looked like he might have been going to the grocery store.

[Nick]

Oh, God, that's harsh.

[Scott]

Well, it was.

[Natalie]

Hey, you look good when you go to the grocery store.

[Scott]

And you do look good when you.

[Nick]

Go to the grocery store. I look better than most.

[Scott]

Yeah, that is true. You at least open the car door for Natalie? Yeah, he did. But usually. Usually when we're getting into Ubers, like, I'm. He opens the car door for me, and then I have to either scoot or, like, crawl to the other side, which is just like a nightmare in itself. But last night, he went around both times.

[Lucy]

Oh.

[Scott]

And got in on the other side. So.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

So it was like half a bead.

[Sandy]

It wasn't closing a car door on her.

[Scott]

Yeah, it wasn't closing a car door on me. He definitely remembered I was in the.

[Nick]

Car and I wasn't wearing a sweatpants.

[Scott]

He was not Wearing sweatpants or crop.

[Sandy]

I believe you looked.

[Natalie]

But here's the real question. Was it clocking to you that he was standing on business?

[Scott]

You know, he was standing on business.

[Natalie]

Okay, but was it clocking to you?

[Scott]

I think it's clocking to me currently.

[Natalie]

Okay, good, good, good, good, good.

[Scott]

Yeah, I don't know if it clocked to me presently there.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Scott]

But it is right now.

[Nick]

How's the album doing? I mean, I enjoy it, but is it like charting?

[Natalie]

Is it like snow KE period sign?

[Sandy]

I was like, does that even. Is that still exist? Like, do people still go like platinum with streaming and all of that?

[Natalie]

Well, yeah, they do. They just don't get any money from it.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Scott]

I do know that a lot of his songs are in like everyone's reels and Tick Tocks that matters. And Instagram stories.

[Daniel]

It has millions of streams. Tens of millions, hundreds of millions.

[Scott]

Oh, my God.

[Nick]

Oh, so crushing. Yeah. Yeah.

[Sandy]

He's number two on the U.S. billboard 200.

[Scott]

How do you think Bustin gber is doing.

[Nick]

On.

[Scott]

On his streaming?

[Sandy]

I mean, did you hear about this? This is crazy. That a Justin Bieber impersonator tricked Vegas club owners into letting him perform. He also ran up a ten thousand dollar bar tab.

[Nick]

Who is it? Can I see a picture? Is it that uncanny?

[Scott]

If you look at this man, you're.

[Nick]

Like, he have the same tattoos.

[Sandy]

Yeah, that's. That's the part that, you know, he.

[Scott]

Went out of his way to get the same tattoo and he's like, like, you look at him and you're like. I kind of feel like this is.

[Sandy]

Like Grounds for Evaluation video.

[Nick]

That's pretty. When he puts on the. The Biebs cost.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

When he's.

[Sandy]

The gas station sunglasses.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Sandy]

You know, the baggy pants down to the kneecaps like that.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Scott]

That is not Justin Bieber. That is.

[Nick]

It doesn't look anything like him.

[Lucy]

It's rough.

[Scott]

It's rough.

[Natalie]

But if you were drunk in Vegas.

[Scott]

Like, Justin doesn't dance like that. First of all, like, we know how Justin Dancer.

[Natalie]

He's got.

[Scott]

Justin is much smaller than dust. Yeah, that is for sure.

[Sandy]

Well, and then on the real, Justin was photographed like out in West Hollywood the same night. So, yeah, he was not there in Vegas. And I guess the club owners found out, pulled him off. Dustin Bin Jeeber pulled him off stage and then made him pay the $10,000 bar tab and then kicked him out.

[Scott]

It's just crazy that this is a thing. I mean, like, y' all know there's like the Taylor Swift Girl and it's like, get the Taylor experience and it'll be like her performing at like your birthday. You're like 12 year old's birthday party.

[Sandy]

It's just not the same.

[Scott]

It's not, it's like, it's so bad.

[Sandy]

It's just hard for me to believe that somebody went so far as to get identical tattoos. Like that man has what, over 200 tattoos over his. On his body.

[Nick]

But someone's parents didn't love him.

[Natalie]

Here's, here's the thing. There are so many like in for like drag queens and stuff. Like there's like Derrick Barry, who is a very famous like drag queen that specifically impersonates Britney Spears. So like there are many, many like famous drag queens that imperson pop divas. And it's like a thing that you go see like a drag queen that's.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Sandy]

So different.

[Natalie]

I know, but it's like if you're an impersonate, like, you know, if it's a bit.

[Nick]

If you're like, hi, I'm a Justin Bieber impersonator and you want to hire me, like a cover band.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Cool. It's like, yeah. Then it's like that person sounds or looks a lot like Justin Bieber. It's kind of funny. It's like a joke with your friends. We're like, we got almost the real thing, right? And then everyone's kind of in on the joke. It's really weird when the people who like want to pretend show up at the mall in la, the groves, hire security and do this whole thing just so that they can feel and like trick people into thinking they met, then that's fucking creepy.

[Natalie]

But if you're. But let's say, right, you are Justin Bieber, or maybe you're even Nick Viall, you live a very busy life and if there was someone who looked just like you that you could like hire to do some of the things you didn't want to do, would you do it like let's say Gustin Sheber. Wait, what is it Bustin Jeeber?

[Nick]

Sorry, is this person making decisions on my behalf?

[Scott]

Nile.

[Natalie]

Let's say Vic Nile.

[Nick]

Yeah, Vic Nile.

[Natalie]

Was like, hey, like there's, there's an event you really don't want to go to. Like, all you have to do is look pretty.

[Nick]

I don't like doing meet and greets though.

[Natalie]

But, but maybe you could do things.

[Nick]

I don't want to do.

[Natalie]

But, but maybe you can make more money and you don't have to do.

[Scott]

The things you don't Want to make money from busting.

[Lucy]

Well, what if.

[Natalie]

But what if Justin hired Bus is what I'm saying.

[Sandy]

Maybe he's missing up Justin's tab.

[Natalie]

He's missing out on a business opportunity by bringing him into the fold.

[Scott]

Kind of like how people saying that Nick should hire you to be Vic Niall.

[Natalie]

No, I could never land that. I could never sell that. I'm not that.

[Nick]

Like, what is. What is. What is Vic Nile doing on my behalf?

[Natalie]

Vic Nile is maybe, you know, like, going to.

[Scott]

He's handing out probably.

[Natalie]

He is, yeah, he's. He is. He's getting paid, like, a good, solid salary.

[Scott]

Vic would do that. Such a Vic move. Vic, he would be like, will you accept this roast to be a cashier at Whole Food? Vic is like, come on.

[Natalie]

Vic is so obsessed with still being on the Bachelor.

[Nick]

Like, he's.

[Lucy]

What?

[Nick]

I want anyone to believe that I would even. Could you imagine? Just like I can. I know there's a lot of value.

[Natalie]

Vic Niall is really being like Peter from Banner Prom.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

I don't know. Just think about it.

[Nick]

Do you think, what would Tom Sandoval's alter ego be?

[Scott]

Himself? I think he is like, he is his own clue of himself.

[Sandy]

A lead singer of the COVID band.

[Lucy]

Yeah. Yes.

[Sandy]

But also doubles as a reality TV star.

[Nick]

He had his America's Got Talent debut. Well, is it his fifth time?

[Sandy]

He's in the quarterfinals.

[Nick]

How's he doing?

[Natalie]

Well, not great.

[Daniel]

Well, I mean, he made it further.

[Lucy]

He did make it further.

[Daniel]

A questionable performance.

[Nick]

He still never. Whatever we think of it, he got enough of.

[Lucy]

Yes.

[Sandy]

Simon Cowell was the only one that wasn't happy with his performance. So it seemed. Because it didn't sound amazing.

[Natalie]

Simon Cowell also didn't think Jennifer Hudson had what it took. So that was an L. Yeah. So is he really the person we want to base on?

[Scott]

I'm very confused by this show.

[Lucy]

It's not good. He's made it past multiple rounds, I guess so.

[Sandy]

His take on me is pretty. Was pretty decent. I will give him that.

[Scott]

Sophia was like, do you know how.

[Sandy]

Many decent people don't make it past the first round?

[Nick]

Yeah, but are they.

[Sandy]

I don't watch it.

[Nick]

Are they international superstars?

[Lucy]

No.

[Scott]

Sophia was trying to. To. To dance along. She was like.

[Sandy]

She called it entertaining. Mel B from Spice Girls said, you make me smile. I've said it before and I'll say it again. And then how. He was like, you know what? You guys are great up there. Like, people would hire you for their private parties. You could perform at weddings.

[Nick]

Yeah, 100%.

[Lucy]

Yeah, they would.

[Natalie]

What if we find out that this entire time, Tom Sandoval has actually been the real Tom Sandoval. Is Psalm Tandoval. Is Psalm Tandoval. And what we've been seeing is actually what happens when an alter ego or a clone takes over, and it's not good. It's like an Avril Lavigne situation.

[Nick]

That's kind of a good movie idea. And somewhere in that body is, like, this very sweet, very. Just like, he was, like, aggressive Nick.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Scott]

You know, he would be like, that.

[Nick]

Was my alter ego who cheated on Ariana. It wasn't me.

[Lucy]

No.

[Natalie]

Maybe he has the real Tom Sandoval, like, trapped in a basement.

[Nick]

He's kidnapped him.

[Lucy]

He's kidnapped him.

[Nick]

Howie Mandela is not team Ariana. I know that. That. I think that much is clear.

[Scott]

Here's Tom Sandoval's redemption arc, I guess.

[Nick]

I mean, listen, he's gonna get paid 15 to 20 grand per wedding.

[Lucy]

Yeah, that's true.

[Sandy]

That is true.

[Nick]

Speaking of Ariana, transition to this is flawless. We're still in scandival.

[Scott]

Speaking of Ariana, we have the Love island reunion trailer that has dropped.

[Nick]

I don't expect that we're going to get much. I don't know.

[Scott]

I think Jeremiah and Ace go at it.

[Sandy]

I am looking forward to it. So we need a full trailer drop, guys.

[Nick]

All right, so we get into a little Housewives of oc. Are we doing a start with a rapid recap?

[Scott]

So if you did not watch last week's episode of the Real Housewives of Orange county, here's your rapid recap. Okay, so reminder. The girls are in the birthplace of Lil Wayne and Stassi Schroeder, which is, of course, New Orleans. Tamara wants to fight like the Mormon wives. No alcohol needed to destroy women emotionally. Shannon can't believe anyone is friends with Katie because she's done illegal things. Recording conversations. Gretchen reminds Shannon that driving drunk is also illegal. But according to Tamra, Katie told a blogger that Gretchen told Katie that Tamara roofied her while getting ready for dinner. Tamara drinks strangely yellow water. Also, Shannon has an amazing moment with her hair extensions. By the way, Shannon and Tamara are cool again. Then Katie promises Gretchen she never told a blogger that Tamara roofied her. Gretchen feels bamboozled, which is the second time the term bamboozled has been used this season. Not that we're counting. At dinner, all hell breaks loose. Here's what went down. Tamara has a meltdown when Gretchen believes Katie roofy rumor. Shannon screams, calls Katie the Leak. Jen pops in and demands to see the fatty photos Tamara showed everyone of her, causing Tamara to fully crash out. Gina tells Tamara she's drunk. Shannon agrees that the yellow water was not, in fact, water, but she still hates Katie. Tamara then storms out and quits the show via Instagram post. Overall, does this count as quiet quitting from Tamara? Find out next week on the Real Housewives of Orange County.

[Nick]

Do you think it was champagne, tequila, or dirty water?

[Sandy]

I think it was either tequila, shitty chardonnay, or tequila.

[Nick]

But I might tequila be wild.

[Natalie]

Well, I don't know if you guys.

[Sandy]

I don't know.

[Lucy]

The eyes.

[Sandy]

I think she admitted that she mixed Xanax.

[Lucy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Natalie]

She posted on her story, apologizing to Heather and saying she also was like. She was like, yeah, at that time, I was going through something dark. I was making Xanax and alcohol.

[Nick]

I find it to be a little, like. I don't know. I feel like a lot. You know, obviously, fans have a strong opinion about Tamra. I always get a little uncomfortable when people, like, say things like, oh, like, Tamara's using Teddy's diagnosis to, like, benefit I. Like, why is not. Whatever you think of Tamara, isn't she just. Her friend has a serious diagnosis. She's literally fighting for her life. Teddy Mellencamp. And it just. It feels weird when people are, like, critiquing Tamra for struggling with this thing, as if, like, I don't know. I just.

[Scott]

I think it's valid that, like, Tamara's real life is, like, clearly bleeding into filming this reality TV show to the point where she's obviously, like, trying to cope in different ways and trying to get through filming in different ways, and then to, like. I mean, I think we talked about this when we saw the initial Instagram post of, like, I'm. I. You know, and now watching it back of, like, Tamara sitting at this table, having all these people yell at her about this and about that, and she's probably like, I have my real friend, like, real going on. I'm not putting up with this. I'm done. And I think it's valid for Tamara. I mean, I don't know.

[Natalie]

I feel like I. I definitely. I. I don't disagree with that at all. But at the same time, I'm also like, Katie. I don't know. I feel like Katie's kind of getting done dirty by this, because it's like, Katie hasn't done anything as nearly as nefarious as some of these other women have, and she's being held to, like, that same standard. Like, I kind of feel like she's kind of the. They're projecting a lot of shit onto her so they don't have to, like, deal with their own shit, and they're pretending that what she's doing is a lot worse.

[Sandy]

Yeah, I was gonna say, where with Tamara, it's kind of difficult because I'm like, we just have so many years of her not only, like, poor behavior, but also claiming that, like, I'm changing, I'm gonna be different. I watch the woman get baptized and then throw wine in someone's face. So it's like, when you see somebody's behavior like that, I can also understand, as a viewer being like, well, why this time? You know what I mean? Where it's like, right now you have something to hide behind. Where it's like. But you're still throwing grenades at, like, Katie, where it's like, not saying that she shouldn't be on the show by all means, but it's like, also, if it's too much, then maybe, like, take yourself out of it. But I'm like, at the end of the day, your job is to show up, and these women go for the jugular. So I'm kind of like, there is no mercy. And it's kind of like Tamara. Even, like, last season, she came for Shannon during her lowest time over and over again. So people are like, why do you deserve that grace? But you won't give that grace to other people.

[Nick]

Yeah, but don't you think it's different for. I mean, Shannon did what she did, and I don't think. I don't think you can compare What Shannon did versus Teddi fighting what's happening to Teddy 100%.

[Sandy]

I'm not trying to compare in the sense of, like, gravity. I'm just saying that I'm like, there's so many situations throughout Tamra's history of her kicking people when they're at their lowest. So it's kind of like, people are just kind of. I can see why people would also be like, I don't really have that grace for Tamron.

[Scott]

I do also think what the. Katie talking to these bloggers, you know, it's like, these bloggers aren't real journalists. Like, they have no reason to, like, keep their sources. The bloggers are fans, anonymous, you know? So it's like these bloggers are starting to come out and say, like, oh, no. I got a call from Katie, and it was. She said this, which, you know, can you believe the blogger? Can you believe Katie? It's like, it gets messy, the lines get blurred.

[Natalie]

I think my thing with that is just like, this is not the first time a housewife has talked to a blogger. And I think the way these, like, specifically, like, Shannon and Tamara are acting about, like, Katie talking and even Heather of, like, acting about how, like, Katie is talking to a blogger as if she has, like, violated some, like, sacred trust or act. Meanwhile, I'm like, I know you're all talking to these bloggers. You know what I mean? It's just like, maybe it's just like, for the sake of the story.

[Lucy]

Yeah, I guess. I don't know.

[Scott]

It does feel weird, though, because it's like Katie's second season. So it's like, you know, if you want to be friends with these ladies and, like, you don't want to have them coming after you all the time, then, like, why are you going to bloggers and saying, like, oh, I mean, like, this roofied thing is like, not. Not a little hop, skip and jump in the park. Like, that's a. Yeah, that's a big allegation.

[Natalie]

I don't. I don't disagree with that either. I don't know. I just. I have a soft spot for Katie.

[Scott]

I. I really do like Katie. I do like Katie. I don't. I just feeling if this stuff is true, I definitely don't agree with it. I also don't. I mean, it's hard to honestly have favorites in the show.

[Lucy]

They all suck. That's it.

[Natalie]

Gina's chilling.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I do feel like Katie's mistake, whatever Katie did or didn' and do, I feel like she did what she thought she should do.

[Lucy]

Right.

[Sandy]

You know, like, to, like, earn her spot almost.

[Nick]

Yeah. I mean, because, like, she. I think it's safe to say she is. Was a fan right before she came on. It's almost impossible. Unless you're both a man.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Sandy]

You know, clearly has a schedule that does not permit you sitting and watching hours of Housewives.

[Nick]

Yeah. I just feel like. I feel like women like her or just, you know, are hard to find in terms of, like, someone who really. You love what they're doing, you respect what they're doing, and they're like, they really are just like, this could be fun to do. I don't need it. I don't want it. We're like, Katie. I feel like it's more the norm to, like, be casting, you know, women who just, like, know the franchise and, like, kind of.

[Sandy]

It's a big opportunity.

[Nick]

Yeah. And I feel like she's kind of Operating in a. Like, Well, I. Like, I feel like, what am I doing wrong? I feel like Katie, if. Whatever she's doing wrong, I think it's. I feel like she is surprised by the vitriol she's receiving.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And doesn't really know how to handle it. And, you know.

[Lucy]

Right.

[Sandy]

And she doesn't want to say the quiet part out loud. Like, are we not all doing this? Like, why?

[Scott]

It is also crazy that Shannon's like, I'm not gonna be in the same room as you.

[Sandy]

It's like, Shannon, you were in the same room and on trips with Alexis, who's, like, literally suing you and dating your ex. Like, I wouldn't share a table with my ex's new person. Like, are you joking?

[Natalie]

I do want to shout out Gretchen really quick from when Shannon was like, I would never. I don't think any of us should be friends with someone who is doing things that are illegal. That's a criminal. And Gretchen's like, well, didn't you get a dui?

[Lucy]

Isn't that illegal?

[Sandy]

And I love how she just kind of moved on. And she's like, so, Tamara, what do you think?

[Natalie]

And then Tamara's like, moving on.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

That's kind of what I love about Shannon. She commits.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Whatever she's doing, she.

[Sandy]

You know, I would say it's Heather's metaphor comparison with the dog with the Frisbee, though. I was like, Nope. That is 100%. Because I'm like, how long and how many times and how many instances are we gonna bring up this situation and make it about you and how you can't be around Katie? And it's just like, sit at the opposite table and just don't talk to her.

[Scott]

That's like, the whole.

[Natalie]

That's why it's like, I have such a hard time with Shannon sometimes is just like, I know you're a good housewife because you make everything about you. But at the same time, I'm like, it's the same. Like, find different things to make about yourself instead of the same thing over.

[Nick]

And over and over again as a woman of God.

[Daniel]

And they walked out of the voodoo.

[Natalie]

Thing, and I. Oh, my God.

[Nick]

I would never do that voodoo thing.

[Sandy]

Oh, that was so great. When she was like, you are an observing participant.

[Natalie]

And then you're like.

[Sandy]

Gretchen goes, okay, well, then I'm leaving. Sorry. Thank you.

[Lucy]

Bye.

[Natalie]

It also.

[Nick]

I kind of respected that same. I did the same thing, but also.

[Natalie]

Gretchen's whole thing being like, I'm a woman of the Bible, so I will try to forgive of Tamara and then immediately being like, nope, she said try, and she did try. Okay.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

Gretchen, you are blessed and highly favored.

[Sandy]

To Gretchen's point, kind of what I was saying earlier is that it's like, because of knowing Tamara's behavior in the past and the amount of lies and evil things that she has done to other people, that even Gretchen was, like, hearing that off the bat, of course she's gonna freak out about it because she didn't say it. But then it's also kind of like, I have to consider the source. Why are you telling me this now? Katie's never done anything to me to make me feel that kind of way. And I don't like that, you know, argument when people get fucked over by people and being like, well, they never did anything to me. But Tamara has done so much to Gretchen that I'm like, even the naked, wasted episode, like, it's dark. It's like Tamara and Vicky are, like, finding joy in trying to get Gretchen drunk so that they can expose her for the person she really is and not this person she's pretending to be on camera. And it's like, I know that was 17 years ago, but it was fucking dark.

[Nick]

And also, like, 17 years ago.

[Scott]

But Gretchen has every right to, like, remember everything that Tamara has done a.

[Nick]

Long time, and it was like a different world.

[Scott]

But if you. But if that.

[Lucy]

If.

[Scott]

But if that person did that to you and then they continue to do things that over the years, then you're like. You're just.

[Nick]

I mean, like, I. I don't fault Gretchen for not liking Tamra. I'm not saying Tamara should be over.

[Sandy]

It, but that's what Gretchen keeps saying to her is, like, you haven't changed. And it's unfortunate you're still making these choices and that you're still fucking with people essentially. Like, mind your own business. Try to be a nice person. But instead, it's like you're just constantly throwing people under the bus. And it's like, okay, for what?

[Natalie]

Yeah, I just think it was also shout out to Jen for seeing her.

[Lucy]

Moment of, like, being the timing.

[Natalie]

None of it was about her. This was all specifically about Katie. This was about the roofie thing. And then Jen's like, hey, reminder. I hate, hate you.

[Scott]

But also, didn't we. Well, I feel like we saw this fatty photo last season. Wasn't Tamara showing this photo last season as well? Of, like, look how much she's changed.

[Daniel]

She's photos.

[Nick]

Yeah, there's always.

[Daniel]

There's a ton of photos.

[Natalie]

Also, like one. She didn't look that bad in that photo. Like, she didn't look bad in that photo.

[Lucy]

Also, it's kind of giving.

[Sandy]

Like when you turn the camera to the side and people take a group photo. Something happened on Apple phones for a period of time where whoever's on the end stretched.

[Scott]

Also, you know what I'm here to believe because it's happened to me.

[Sandy]

Tell me.

[Scott]

Is that you take a group photo with someone and maybe you're not the one in charge of the photo.

[Lucy]

Uh huh.

[Scott]

They do a little facetune on themselves. A little pinch of the waist. And who does it stretch out? Oh, the person beside you. Your elbow. My sister on Thanksgiving posted a picture of all of us and I was like, why do I look £100? Oh, well, I am £145. Why do I look £500? I was like. And then I said it to my brother because he was on the other side of her. So we both got like the short end of the stick.

[Lucy]

I'm like, what the.

[Natalie]

I just know that.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Scott]

I'm like, so that 100 could have happened.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

That would have been kind of iconic for. Or evil of Tamara. Like made herself look so tiny.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And then start passing it around being like, wow.

[Natalie]

Evil. Despicable. I just know being. If I were ever to be on Housewives, I would have a like body dysmorphia induced mental breakdown.

[Daniel]

Oh for like.

[Natalie]

It's crazy.

[Scott]

It's crazy. We also have the Real Housewives of Miami. Two episodes.

[Lucy]

Yes. Huge.

[Scott]

Two episodes. Last week we had episode 10, the Thrill of Sevilla. And if you didn't watch the last two episodes, here's your rapid recap. The Thrill of Seville. No, the. I feel like Alexia is pissed at me right now.

[Lucy]

Let her be.

[Natalie]

Hey, you're doing, you're doing your best. And thrill and Seville rhyme. So go for it, mama.

[Scott]

The thrill of Seville.

[Nick]

Dr. Seuss, what is it supposed to be?

[Daniel]

Sevilla.

[Lucy]

Sevilla, Sevilla.

[Daniel]

Well, it's not Italian.

[Scott]

It's not Italian.

[Lucy]

Okay.

[Nick]

I think they titled this episode knowing that no one pronounced it.

[Scott]

That's why they put thrill. That's why they put thrill. The thrill of civil. Okay, go ahead. Stephanie is the Oprah of private jet gifts. Lisa still hasn't unfollowed Larsa's ex boyfriend. Lisa missed her original flight and didn't text anyone, then ended up on a train. Larsa has a stalker who has a crush on her from different numbers. Only bad things happen after 10pm According to Stephanie Larson. Stephanie laugh at the flamenco performance, while Alexia and Marisol appreciate it, there was a weird private plane vibe versus the normies at dinner. We got a ooh, I'm Alexia. Which was incredible. Alexia accuses Stephanie for buying people with her riches.

[Nick]

So, like, she accusing her of, like, human trafficking?

[Sandy]

No, she's saying, you try to buy your friends by giving us gifts and taking them on your private jet.

[Nick]

Yeah, so she's generous.

[Lucy]

Yeah, yeah. Literally, she's.

[Scott]

She's Crystal Minkoff.

[Sandy]

And also, yeah, she, like, doesn't have girlfriends, so that's what she's saying. Like, she's like, I don't really know how to do this, but, like, okay. And, like, when she was on the phone with her husband, I was just like, y' all are so cute.

[Scott]

I know. Her being like, I want to be with him every.

[Nick]

Has she ever thrown her money in the faces of her friends that she is being generous to?

[Sandy]

No, not that.

[Nick]

To be fair, for Alexia. It makes sense, though, because she was.

[Daniel]

Fighting with Alexia, and she's like, well.

[Nick]

Actually, do you want to be on my private jet? And Alexis, she was like, girl, no.

[Natalie]

Yeah, I'll go business class. They looked like they had a great time at business class, though. Like, that still looked nice.

[Nick]

But that is a nice gesture. It was like, I don't want to shout out Southwest, love you, but, like, I would rather just go pj.

[Scott]

Overall, should Larsa stay away from athletes? Be a milf or trust the universe? I have to say, also in this episode, when Alexia arrives and Julia immediately gets up and she's like, we were just talking about you crazy. And then tries to play it off as like, a.

[Lucy]

No, no, no.

[Scott]

I sang like, oh, we were just talking about you.

[Sandy]

I didn't tell you to talk about me. I told you not to talk about me. And I was like, oh, but also, Julia stepping in it this season.

[Scott]

She really is Girl Evil. She really is.

[Lucy]

Zip it.

[Natalie]

The thing is, she.

[Lucy]

She.

[Natalie]

She is the villain. It's so hard for me to actually, like, be mad at anyone in Miami. Like, they could do terrible, awful things to each other.

[Sandy]

And I'm like, I said this to my boyfriend, too. I said, salt Lake City and Miami are my fa. Oh, my God, my fiance. So sorry.

[Nick]

Yeah, sorry. Yeah, you earned that shit.

[Scott]

I know.

[Sandy]

And I'm like, it's still. It's still getting used to it. But I was telling him that. I was like, my two favorite franchises are Salt Lake City and Miami. Because these women are so fun but so unhinged. But also, like, can Go from screaming at each other, throwing glasses at dinner, and then the next day they're all in like, dress up costumes, like, okay, let's go.

[Lucy]

And that's why it's so fun.

[Sandy]

There is such a great balance.

[Scott]

We also had episode 11, Unfollow or Unfriend. Then we have flamenco dresses galore. Kiki lovingly brought five of her cousins to America and then received death threats from other family members. Alexia started wearing her wedding ring again. Larsa is mad that Lisa is still following Marcus. Larsa would unfollow her grandfather if he broke up with her grandmother because women's stories matter. Meanwhile, Lisa asks, how much can a man take? There's some spiritual flamenco singing and emotions from the soul. But Stephanie laughed. Oh, in general, Seville has been amazing. Besides two people, Larsa and Lisa. Meanwhile, Larsa is going to remove herself from Lisa's life. Overall. How do we eat ice cream? Lick or bite? Is it sexual? Find out next time on the Real Housewives of Miami.

[Natalie]

Really quick from the last episode, I just want to say that Adriana's whole thing about. Yeah, I'm so sorry. Really good. In the last episode, Adriana's whole thing about, like the man she met with the private jet. Then, like crashing the private jet and died.

[Lucy]

I died? Yeah.

[Natalie]

Oh, my God, I love. I love that woman.

[Nick]

She's the funniest person giving Erika Jayne.

[Daniel]

When she was talking about the car.

[Nick]

Going off the cliff.

[Natalie]

The car going off the cliff.

[Scott]

I'm just going through a lot right now. The car, the house got broken into.

[Natalie]

Well then also Adriana also just having.

[Sandy]

Like time's down a ditch.

[Natalie]

Random fun facts about everything. Like the reason Barcelona is Barcelona so smart is because the king had a lisp and which is tract.

[Scott]

No. Yeah, It's. My aunt lives in Valencia, which is like we say Valencia, but he couldn't say Valencia as it was Valencia because.

[Lucy]

He had a Liz. Just saying.

[Scott]

I also knew that pop off geography.

[Lucy]

Thank you.

[Scott]

Well, less about geography and more about, like just knowing lore.

[Lucy]

Lore.

[Scott]

Knowing the lore of ether.

[Lucy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sandy]

I actually felt really bad for Lisa this episode. I might be alone here, but I'm just like, when I really put into context that like this woman's father has just passed.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Sandy]

She's going through some of the worst legal to have Larsa be like, I can't even look at her. I won't even talk to her. And then chooses to sit directly across from her and then cause this whole thing while she's getting an affidavit sent to her that she needs to get signed and notarized within an hour. And it's like, ugh, there goes Lisa making everything about herself again. And I was just like, I just want to shake you because your concept of reality hurts.

[Nick]

Yeah. It's tough to take Larsa's side over. Over Lisa's knowing that they were friends. After talking to Lisa, like, some of these, like, marriages slash divorces are just devastating. Like, when you have these certain type of people, mostly men in positions of power, who you come to find out are kind of monsters when it comes to, like, their views on relationship versus, like, Larsa, who seems to be winning whatever divorce she had from Scotty only to then date her, her ex husband's ex, teammate's son, and whatever drama is going on in their life. She really. Larsa seems to be more in control of her life. And props to her for, like, controlling the situation. But, like, how do you not have empathy for what Lisa is going through? All while having children with this man and being emotionally tortured by this guy?

[Scott]

Lars is like, but you're still following.

[Nick]

Like, her biggest problem is her ex boyfriend fa.

[Natalie]

Like, and then to call Lisa a groupie and then Lisa's whole thing being like, you're the one that dated them.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

You're the one obsessed with the 90s bulls.

[Sandy]

Like, follow the Kardashians.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Daniel]

I also. I respect Lisa for taking notes.

[Nick]

I feel like we've all been there.

[Daniel]

With, like, if someone's like, if everybody's not believing you and everybody's screaming at you, I'm taking notes in the future.

[Sandy]

I also respect her saying to Larsa, like, I will have this conversation with you when I have, like, my thoughts gathered. But, like, right now, I'm not prepared to have this conversation with you. And it's just gonna go chaotic. So, like, let's take a beat. And she's. She was like, well, I never want to speak to you again. And it was just like, Larsa's reactions to things are just so frustrating. Even when she said that the paparazzi told her and Jody that Larsa was the one that called the paparazzi on Marcus to get that photo of him doing Coca in Cannes, I'm like. And then she goes, you're lying. You're a fucking liar. And it's just like, that's not what she said. Like, that's not even a proper response to it. She said, that's what the paparazzi said. You're fucking. You're a fucking liar.

[Nick]

I realized when it comes to Housewives, I'm a big hypocrite. Okay, say more, because I just like Tamara, but objectively, I know, like, because she's wrong and like. Like Larsa. At least my perception is Larsa seems, like I said, to be in control of her life and, like, she. I bet. Like, it seems like Larsa is more playing whatever character she thinks she's supposed to play to be a housewife and blah, blah, blah. And, yeah, she's dramatic and like. Like, Like Tamara. It feels like Tamara has her. Her real life that she knows how to separate. And I think the struggle with Tamara, with OC Is you see her real life bleeding into her housewife life with her friend being sick and having those issues. And then you have people like, for example, like, Lisa, where it's just like, they're. Or. Or Shannon and OC where they. They're just kind of messes. You know, their life's a bit of a mess, and. And they are gracious enough to let us in on that mess. And sometimes I have a lot more empathy for, like, Lisa, where it's just like, help the sister out. And then other times I'm like, I love the way the game, you know, and I'm like. And I'm way more Team Lisa, but I'm also like, Team Tamara, and I'm just a hypocrite. I think you're a fan of Housewives. I like who I like.

[Lucy]

Are you.

[Scott]

Are you Team Lucy or Team Daniel?

[Nick]

Oh, my God, Lucy.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I mean, I. You guys judge for yourself. They're coming up. I mean, Daniel seems like an all right guy. I mean, obviously, when. When. When on these types of, like, Love island or Love Competition shows or Bachelors. I do think men. It's like, we oversimplify these characters, and it's just like, if you don't like a guy, he's just like a. A narcissist, you know, like these. You know, think of all the terrible tropes you say about men, and we.

[Natalie]

A larcissist.

[Nick]

Yeah, Larcicist. Right?

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I. I just. I think I'm putting Daniel in the bucket of, like. I think men in. In 2025 are even slower to mature emotionally, and I think men have become more awakened to their feelings. And that's. Val. That's great. Like, it's like, I feel like a lot of young men have taken, like, don't be a toxic, masculine man, which means this, like, like, makes their feelings more valid and them talk about their feelings more, and almost like Use that as a way to, like, weaponize whatever situation. And I don't because I don't think. I don't know you guys judge for yourself. But definitely team Lucy across the board.

[Natalie]

Women's stories matter.

[Nick]

What does that mean?

[Natalie]

That's the Reese Witherspoon quote.

[Nick]

I mean, sure, yeah, she's t. It's.

[Natalie]

Just an interview with Reese Witherspoon where she's like, women's stories matter and period entered my brain.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Well, up next. Well, he said, she said for you. We, we love point counterpoint. And that's up next.

[Scott]

Up next, we have Lucy. And then after that, we'll be diving into our interview with Daniel and we have some exciting news to share. Lucy won't just be answering our questions, but yours as well. Thanks to the Mint Mobile hot take hotline, Lucy will respond to a reality TV hot take. Since this episode is sponsored by Mint Mobile, we want to again shout out their deal for everyone heartbroken by their current wireless carrier. Break up with your old wireless bill and join Mint Mobile. Get the new customer offer in 3 month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a [e-mail] that's mintmobile.comv like what you hear and want to give a take of your own. Give us your hot takes, thoughts and theories and we'll read and react to the best ones on an upcoming reality recap episode. All you have to do is call 1-855-MINT TLK or if you prefer the numbers that's 855-64-6-8855 and leave us a voicemail. Again, just call 1-855-MINTTLK or 855-646-8855 and leave us a message.

[Lucy]

5.

[Nick]

Lucy, welcome to the Vile Files. How are you doing?

[Lucy]

Hello. I'm really good. Yeah, I'm good. I'm excited.

[Scott]

Why are you scared?

[Lucy]

I don't know. I don't know. I feel like I'm not, like, I don't know. I get really nervous. I'm like, oh, God, what word vomit's gonna come out of my mouth?

[Scott]

You're, like, in love with Freddy, you know, you shouldn't be scared.

[Nick]

Oh, are we. We're starting there.

[Scott]

Sorry, I just. Sorry.

[Lucy]

Yes. Okay. We could definitely start there. Put the rumor to I don't want to say to bed. That sounds like end the rumor. I love Freddie to bits, but we are just friends. There's, like, nothing going on. We basically just became each other's photographers. That's kind of what's happened. We Both worked with the same brand, and we both needed to get content. So I'd be like, right, I'm gonna do content. He was like, okay, I need to get content too. So we'd end up, like, doing content in the same spot. Cause he'd, like, take it for me and then be like, oh, oh, that looks cool. Actually, do you mind doing it for me? So. Yeah, but.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Lucy]

But that's just friends.

[Nick]

That's fair.

[Lucy]

Just friends.

[Nick]

Yeah. That being said, like, why? Why? Why not?

[Lucy]

I just. Freddy's so lovely, as everyone knows. Like, he is just. Yeah, he's an angel. I just don't see him like that. Like, I don't think we've ever. Like, we even on the show, like, we had that, like, one conversation that was aired, but we just never. We've just never had that kind of relationship. Like, it's just always been friendly. Like, I've met up with him before in London. We like, went walking around and it was kind of just like walking around with my brother.

[Nick]

Do you like him? A little toxic.

[Lucy]

Do I like people? I think maybe if you watch the show, you could say yes.

[Nick]

Well, you know, I wonder because, you know, Freddie has gotten a lot of fanfare for his, what seems to be amazing personality and just, like, unproblematic personality. And yet. And yet the ladies are just all like, yeah, he seems like a cool brother.

[Lucy]

I mean, I think he does pretty well, to be fair. I think. I don't think he's. I don't think Freddie struggles. I'm sure there's. Well, I bet there's loads of girls that like to date him, so I don't think he's struggling. I think it was just maybe us girls on the show.

[Nick]

Gotcha.

[Lucy]

And he came in a little bit later as well, so, like, like, we'd already kind of made a lot of Us had, like, made our matches. We made them very quickly. And I think in those scenarios, like, you just kind of know, like, if you have that connection with someone so quick, like, you either have that, like, whatever chemistry, or it's just friendly for sure.

[Nick]

Well, congratulations on. On being the perfect match with Daniel.

[Lucy]

Yeah. I also, like, I feel like I can't cheers that because I'm like, yeah. And then it ended, you know, after, and we didn't even go on the holiday. I really do hope they gift that to Ad and Ollie as a baby moon.

[Nick]

I was watching and kind of, like, shocked that they didn't win. I guess. Let's maybe. Let's start there. Why? Why do you think you and Daniel won versus, like, say, the couple that's having a baby.

[Lucy]

Yeah, mad. Mad, like, in a good way. Mad. Mad that we won, I guess. I think it was maybe like, the whole Justine situation, I think maybe because, like, the other half of the cast were in the hotel with Justine and then. I don't really know, but it's not really bad. I don't know why I won. I'm like, that's okay. Like, I don't know. I think people obviously did see that me and Daniel did gen need. Like, we generally did like each other. But watching it back. Yeah. Has been interesting. I'm sure. I think probably if the people who, like, if everyone voted on the outside, if they all watched, like, everything that was in the house, they probably wouldn't have voted us to win, maybe because they only saw bits of each other's. Like, they only saw bits of our dynamic and they only saw bits of Ad and Ollie's dynamic. But I guess they probably knew more because they had Justine to talk to and things. So I think maybe. I think maybe, like, friendships came into it. It wasn't just maybe who's the. You know, who's the perfect match. So I think maybe that all played. Played a little part in it.

[Scott]

Was it harder living in the moment of Daniel and his issues with you doing anything or watching it back?

[Lucy]

It was harder being in it. However, I have to say, watching. Yeah, watching the boys day back, I like my jaw. I was like, whoa. Because obviously I know what I got told. And AD Was amazing and told us everything, but she told us everything she saw and she relayed it. But equally, there were just things that were said that I was really shocked by. I have to say, the bit where he said, I don't know, the boys were all egging him on, but saying, like, oh, like, Olivia's, like, so much hotter than Lucy or whatever. Like, you know, she's so much sexier. And he's like, yeah, yeah, that was crazy. I was like, cool, okay. And then poor Jaden's like, oh, Lucy's turned too, though. Thank you, Jaden. Yeah. Yeah.

[Scott]

That was nuts.

[Lucy]

Yeah. I was like, oh, that's cool.

[Nick]

Watching it back. Was the first time Daniel made you cry? How. How did you, like, what did it feel like watching back? Did it seem. Because I think us watching it the first time, he seemed kind of ridiculous and jealous and kind of just. It came across as him kind of taking out his embarrassment on you when, yeah, ultimately, like, you didn't really do anything wrong other Than, like, you know, I guess you gave him the wrong score. Which he still got a nine. Like, he got a nine. Like, a nine.

[Lucy]

And I generally. I know people think I. I've seen TikToks and people like, how does she not know? Like, and I know Juliet says in the show, like, you know, like, Ollie has a beard and you don't, but in that situation, we had a song blaring in our ear over and over again. I was really panicked anyway to make sure I didn't get it wrong. And Ollie then kissed me. Really went for it because he obviously thought he was going to win, you know, want to win. But then he, like, hugged me at the end, and I just, in the.

[Natalie]

Heat of the moment, was like, 10.

[Lucy]

And then I realized straight away I was like, no, no. But, like, that wasn't actually Daniel's beer. That wasn't him. So then I asked to rescore. I'm like, with everything in going, can I rescore? Can I rescore? And I just heard, no, no. And I was like. But I knew straight away he was going to take it really badly. I cried before we even left the challenge. And I told all the girls, like, I know he's going to take this really badly.

[Nick]

Why did you think he's going to take it badly?

[Lucy]

I just think the kind of way he is, I knew he'd be really embarrassed, and I knew he'd be really upset about it, and I knew he'd be annoyed. I don't know. I don't know how I knew. I just knew, I guess because even at that point, I think could kind of tell, like, most of the guys. I don't want to say the word possessive, but, like, openly kind of shutting things off. So I think I already knew that. Yeah. I just knew. I knew that would hurt his ego.

[Nick]

Do you think you have good intuition and do you follow your intuition?

[Lucy]

I think I have good intuition. I don't think I always follow my intuition at all.

[Nick]

Yeah. Because I was just wonder, like, wouldn't. Wouldn't that be a red flag if you. Whatever Daniel. Whatever energy Daniel is giving you that told you this guy is gonna freak out if. On a game where everyone kisses each other and is blindfold with music blasting in his ear, if I get it wrong, he is going to lose it on me. And then he did. What does that say to you about, I guess, Daniel?

[Lucy]

I mean, it probably should have been a red flag. To be honest, I think my biggest concern with that whole situation was when we got back. I don't think you see part of the conversation when I asked to speak to him. I had already asked to speak to him once, and he said no. He refused to. I'd, like, cried the whole journey home. Rachel had been holding my hand in the van. We just met, and she was, like, holding my hand, like, it's okay.

[Nick]

Did Daniel see you cry the whole time?

[Lucy]

Yeah, he saw me, like, get. He saw me upset in the van. But then I think that we had to. Then we split. I think the boys went in a different van. But he wouldn't be. He just wouldn't speak to me. He wouldn't say anything. He just was ignoring me. So then when we got back to the house, I already asked him, hey, like, can we have a chat? And he was like, no, I'm gonna go. I'm like, I'm jimming with the boys. Basically, leave me alone. I was like, okay, like, I'll give you some time. And then obviously, I went to try and have another conversation. And they don't put this in the show, But I remember the reason I walked out of the bedroom was because I said to him, I'm so sorry. Like, honestly, like, ask all the girls. Like, I got. I already got really upset, and I cried because I knew that this would really upset you, and I'm so sorry. And he was like, lucy, to be honest, I really don't care that you cried. I don't care. There. And that's why I walked out the bedroom. I didn't, like, storm out. I just, like, I heard that, and I was like, oh, okay. So then I went. I think I went over to Louis first, and then the girls, and then I think Louis told him. Told Daniel, dude, she's really upset. But I kind of felt like he only really wanted to comfort me. Like, watching it. I'm like, I think you just wanted to comfort me because everyone else knew I was crying.

[Scott]

He wanted to look like the good guy around all the others.

[Lucy]

But it's like, the second time, he, like, wipes away my tears. And I was like, in the moment. I like, you don't really know. I don't know. You don't put two and two together. But then in the moment, I was like, you just told me that I've embarrassed you again, and then you're the one wiping my tears away. It was all a bit.

[Nick]

I mean, technically, he embarrassed himself. I mean, shouldn't he just be a better kisser than Ali or.

[Scott]

I mean, yeah, he definitely.

[Lucy]

Well, he kissed. I kissed him after Ollie.

[Nick]

No, I know I mean, I'm just teasing, but like, I mean, I just don't. Did.

[Lucy]

It's just a game.

[Nick]

Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Did Daniel ever come around? I mean, we've all been embarrassed in the heat of the moment. We've all felt like a little silly when our egos or our pride or whatever it is that's taking over. But did he ever like, I don't know, wake up or just like, have like, like cooler heads prevail where he was? Did he ever like, sincerely apologize for being like, hey, listen, I really overreacted. My feelings were hurt. I was embarrassed. But that being said, I shouldn't have handled it that way. I'm really sorry. I. I let my pride get the best of me and I took it out on. Because that's what he did, right? He just took out his feelings on you. You didn't do anything wrong. You know, regardless of what your answer was, you. It was meant to, to have you not know who you were kissing. I mean, beards aside, like, you just, you didn't know. And did he really think that you were doing it to. On purpose to. With him? I mean, is that what he thought?

[Lucy]

I think he genuinely did believe that, like, yeah, that I knew it wasn't him. And I guess I did know. Obviously, like in the heat at the moment, I, I, Yeah, I got it wrong. And then obviously, like literally a few seconds later, it just, I think in my head, not everyone was obviously going for it because they were just kind of like making sure they gave their match the best score. Some people were going for it and some people weren't. And I was kind of like just trying to see who was Daniel, to be honest. I wasn't like, probably doing it properly in that sense. So. Yeah, but I do think he does. That didn't make sense to me as well because people have said that he said that and then people have said that in TikTok because, like, she clearly knew and I'm like, why would I score someone else, like, intentionally a 10. Like, I just wouldn't do like, I mean, yes, I would do the game, but equally like, well, I mean, trying to, to get it wrong.

[Nick]

If he really thought you knew, then I guess that would make you a little toxic. And then maybe he shouldn't have just. Maybe he should have just moved on from you. If he thought, yeah, if he really thought that you scored him deliberately lower than Ali just to fuck with his ego, then Jen, just say that rather than.

[Lucy]

Yeah, that didn't make sense to me, because I was like, I get. I get where everyone was like, how could you get it wrong? But I was secretly, like, I did get it wrong, and I didn't mean to, but why would I do that on purpose? Like, that's just causing, like. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's not the kind of drama you want.

[Nick]

Like, yeah, that was good drama.

[Scott]

I mean, it also, like, even the second time he makes you cry is over literally nothing. I mean, it just seems like he would get upset over the smallest things that he felt hurt his ego, and, like, quote, unquote, embarrassed him. I mean, when he told you that you were laughing too loud with another man, what. What was your reaction watching that back?

[Lucy]

Yeah, my decimals were too high.

[Scott]

Okay.

[Lucy]

AD used to be, like, not too much, too much, too loud. Really did. I think the thing with that all is I don't agree with his reaction at all. I do think the boys kept trying to wind him up, and they did have a conversation with Louis at one point that wasn't aired because I was like, can you guys, like, stop trying to, like, rile him up as well? Because I think they had a little conversation before I come over, and they're like, oh, yeah, like, she's very loud, Daniel. And. Whereas some of the other guys, I think, can take it as a joke, I was like, that's not the kind of thing that Daniel would take as a joke. Like, that would upset him. So I was like, can you guys stop? Not that he should have reacted the way he reacted, but you felt like.

[Scott]

The guys were, like, hyping him up and making him feel maybe a little bit more validated in his feelings.

[Lucy]

Yeah, well, even on the, like, the boys day, when they're like, oh, come on. Like, you're not gonna sit on the sidelines. Not that you ever have to do, like, behave how he behaves. You really don't. But I was like, why are you all, like, you know, especially, like. Like, Louis? I was like, you're meant to be my friend. Like, we did too hot together. And I really, like, Like, I love Louis. Like, we are friends. I was like, why are you, like, doing this?

[Sandy]

Realizing that you had to do so much work to kind of tiptoe around his feelings or make sure that his feelings didn't get hurt? Did you see any of this as a red flag, or were we just kind of thinking he's hypersensitive? I'm just. I'm not understanding, like, where your attraction stayed with him throughout this process.

[Lucy]

Well so we'd have these like arguments, whatever they were but then you go back to the room, it's just you two, it'd be so much calmer. We talk about things. And he did like, he did apologize like after the boys day, like it wasn't aired but he did like. I mean I know it doesn't make up for everything but he did do a massive apology and like he like laid out candles and got me flowers and wrote me a card and like said how sorry he was and that you know, he died to acted completely out of line. So we did, we did always have like a resolution in the evening and I think part of me was just kind of hoping that I was like this is a weird situation. Like sure, if you're quite like a. I don't know what the word is but if you're someone that, you know, introvert as free spirited as me, I don't know what the word is but I don't think that situation was very good for him. Like I don't think that is a healthy place for him to be in because he, he wasn't like wanting to explore. He wasn't, you know, he didn't want me to be open but then he wanted to be open. I don't. Yeah, I don't.

[Scott]

So I guess where did it all go wrong? I mean the two of you at, at the little re. The finale, y' all looked in love. You know, you both were like, yep, he's my perfect match. She's my perfect match. And then what happened?

[Lucy]

We had some like, we. Well they don't really show I don't think much of our good times in there to be honest because there's loads like we have loads of downtime. We had a great time. Like we'd be creating films together. Like we would have like we did have really lovely times in there but I don't think any of that was, was really shown. But I think afterwards it was just so apparent. We all went on a holiday and I just, I think I thought it'd be so different outside of the like the villa. And I was like actually I just didn't. I was like this, let's be real. It was going to turn really toxic. I was like this is going to turn into a really toxic relationship. Like at the time I was working at a nightclub. Don't anymore. But it was then I was like I was working at a club still. We're in different countries, we're on different time zones. Like even like I think once I Turned my read receipts off, but you know, you can see, oh no, like last scene or something. And he was like, can you put them back on? Like he wouldn't like it, like if I turn that off. Like he wanted, like he wanted to reply instantly. And I was just like, this is gonna turn bad. Like it's just not, it's not gonna be good.

[Nick]

So did you guys even attempt to date after a Perfect match or after the holiday you guys took right after? Or did you guys just pretty much end it right away?

[Lucy]

No, so we had a few weeks after. So we did. Yeah, we did. Like finished Perfect Match. All went, all went on holiday. It was me, me, Daniel, Scott, Louis and Sandy all went on a holiday after, then went home. Then we're still in court. Yeah, maybe like maybe a month, three weeks. And we were planning the trip. Like we were gonna go to Zanzibar. Like it was all kind of of planned, but I think, yeah, it just, I just was like, I just felt like it was so wrong to like go on this holiday kind of feeling like this is not, this isn't going to work. Like this just isn't.

[Nick]

Were you the one who ultimately broke it off?

[Lucy]

Yeah, I mean he, he kind of like, he definitely agreed as well and was like, yeah, I do think this is the best decision, but I initiated it. I just didn't want it to turn really toxic. And I was like, I could see that where it was gonna go. Like, I think as well, the time difference was hard. I think it was like eight, eight hours, nine hour time difference. And yeah, I just, it just wasn't good. Yeah, I was like, this is gonna turn bad and I didn't want it to end badly. I didn't want it to get to that point. And there were things like on the holiday when we were away in Cancun that I didn't, I didn't like, like what?

[Nick]

No, like what?

[Lucy]

This isn't to like, I don't want to badmouth him because we're all, we're, we're all fine. Like, but like even like we went to the airport and like pulled my top up and was like, let's cover you up. And I was like, ah, no, like I was just wearing a vest and tracksuit bottoms and I was like, oh, like, why? Why what? And when we're in the house, I asked him once, like, I guess these were my kind of red flags when we're in the house, I asked him one night like, oh, do you think I should wear this dress tonight or this Dress like a long one or a short one. And I think his response was, well, let's be real, like, you're gonna wear the short one. It's you. And I was like, yeah. I was like, no, I think I'm gonna wear the long one. Like, what?

[Scott]

So you felt like maybe he was a little controlling over, like, how you looked, how you dressed, how you appeared?

[Lucy]

I think so. I was like, I don't think we're gonna ever align on this, and you're not gonna. You're not gonna change, and I'm not gonna dress just, you know, differently. Because you don't like the vest top I'm wearing.

[Nick]

When was the last time you spoke with Daniel?

[Lucy]

Well, we briefly saw each other at the Netflix summer event, but we literally barely spoke. Like, we said hello, and then we said hey as well at the event. That's kind of it, really. He did. Yeah, he did message me to apologize. He's obviously watched it all, but I. Yeah, I didn't reply.

[Scott]

Do you not think it came from a genuine place?

[Lucy]

The problem is, I was like, I don't. I thought about replying because I'm not someone that holds a grudge. Like, I think, you know, that was then. We move on. Life goes on, and it's all fine. It's all good. But watching it back, I was like, some of the behavior, I was like, that's actually not okay. If that was my friend or my daughter or something, I'd be like, no, no, no. Like, you can't accept that behavior. So I think, yeah, I didn't want to start a conversation, but I also didn't want to reply and say, it's all good. Don't worry. Because I was like, actually, like, it wasn't okay, if that makes any sense. I don't know if that makes sense. No, no, it does. It does.

[Scott]

Was there anything specific, like, watching it back besides the, like, obvious things that we've already talked about that made you, you know, like, say, like, if this happened to my daughter or my friend? Like, absolutely not.

[Lucy]

I mean, obviously, yeah, the boys day, which is obvious, but I think it was more like the intention with things, like, the intention of the boys day, because they all did. They all were. You know, all went off and effectively, like, cheated on all of us and did what they want to do. But I think it was just like when he, like, had that chat with Juliet and he was still saying that I'd embarrassed him, and I don't know. It kind of. I don't. I was like, is this, like, revenge because I embarrassed you, so now you're like, right, I'm gonna kind of, like, get back at her. It just didn't. It didn't come from very. I felt like it didn't come from a very nice place. Whereas I think Louis. Yeah. You know, I don't agree with how he moved, but. But I don't think it came from, like, a. I don't know, like a. A revengeful place or anything. I think he was just thought, oh, great, I'm gonna do what I want to do. Yeah. Well, I don't know. What do you think?

[Scott]

No, I mean, I definitely agree. I mean, the way that Louis handled what happened at the boys mixer versus just the rest of the men showed more of his character. You know, granted, they all fucked up, but the fact that he was. Was able to straight and pull, like, you know, have accountability.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And instead of, like, the weird, like, I'm just gonna wait and see, like, are the girls gonna tell her?

[Lucy]

We.

[Scott]

We begged AD not to tell anyone. You know, it was a weird, like, game.

[Lucy]

I hated that. Yeah. And I hated that. I mean, they were like, oh, like, Ollie, like, AD's gonna tell on us. It's like, yes. Also, like, we're not like, 14. Like, what are you going on about? Like. Like, this is so weird. But I think, as well, yeah, like, that night, they also didn't air. But I can't remember. The boys came back, obviously. Like, you see me have a conversation with Daniel, but then he told me something else. When we went to bed, he'd, like, waited until everyone had gone to sleep, and then he told me something else. I think that's when he told me about kissing Juliet or kissing someone. I can't remember which. Or that it was multiple kisses or something. I can't remember what it was, but I was like, like, why are you telling me this now? Like, we literally. We've. You said you told me everything. We've spoken about everything. And obviously everyone had gone to bed, so I couldn't talk to anyone. So I was just pacing around the bedroom because I was, like, so annoyed and because he was like, oh, yeah. Like, the boys on the way home were, like, laughing so much, and I was. I was furious. I was. I literally was, like, absolutely furious. I was like, don't touch me. Like, pacing. And one of the producers, like, yeah, we watched you, like, pace around the room. So I was like. I was so angry, and I couldn't talk to anyone because I was like, why? Like, one. This isn't funny. I was like. You all literally, like, what? Found that hilarious that you'd all just. You knew you were coming back and gonna, like, hurt all of us. Yeah. I was so angry.

[Scott]

That's bizarre.

[Nick]

When you watched it back in real time, was it worse than you even found out about in real time?

[Lucy]

No, it wasn't worse. It was bad. Like, I was, like, I was shocked, but it wasn't worse.

[Sandy]

Us.

[Lucy]

I think just because I've moved on, like, from it now, I knew it would be bad. I just didn't know it was going to be that bad. And I didn't. I didn't realize that Daniel was gonna be really that bad.

[Nick]

Like, he was up in there, you know?

[Lucy]

Yeah. But I'm kind of like, well, I've moved on with my life. Like, I'm good, I'm happy.

[Scott]

So if you could go, would you have matched with anyone else? Maybe if, like, all of the men got there on the first date, would you have found yourself maybe matching with someone else?

[Lucy]

I don't. I've thought about this, and I don't think so. And I think even if, like, I thought to myself, you know, if I'd have seen or, you know, seen how bad the boys day is, like, would I have, you know, they're not matched with him. And it's really. It's just really hard to know because it's such a. That, like, when you're in that environment, I just didn't have a connection romantically with anyone else. I just wasn't attracted to anyone else like that. That. So. And also, I think, like, that point was quite near the end. So it's like, do you. Do you kind of throw away what you've tried to build with someone or do you stick with it? And, you know, maybe they did just make a genuine mistake and they just got silly. But, yeah, I don't. I don't know what I would have done if I'd have actually maybe, like, watched the Boy's day, like, from A.D. you know how A.D. got to watch it. Don't. I don't know how I'd have felt.

[Scott]

Like if they would have had a. Had a Temptation island bonfire moment where they kind of play clips of what happened for everyone to watch back. A little movie night esque. You know, maybe they should have done that.

[Lucy]

That would go off.

[Scott]

Yeah, they should have done that.

[Lucy]

They should have done that. That would have gone crazy. I mean, I don't even think they needed to be fair because as soon as the boys came back, I remember I just looked at Louis face.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Lucy]

I shouted. I was like, your face is annoying me. And he said, what have I done? I was like, we know. I was like, we all know. He was like, why are you, like, singing? He got really weirded. We had a bit of an argument and then we apologized to each other because he was like, sorry. And I was like, I'm sorry for shouting at you. But I just knew. I was like, I could see it in his face. I was like, your face is annoying me. Yeah. And he's like, why are you coming at me?

[Scott]

He definitely doesn't have a very good poker face.

[Lucy]

And I was like, you're all guilty. I was like, you're all guilty. Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick]

We talked to Sandy this past week and you're speaking to your friend Louis. He's obviously made some waves with some of his, like, off camera anger antics, you know, swapping shows and spoiling things before things even kind of had a chance to get out. Do you have any thoughts about your friend Louis, particularly about how he's moved in the past few weeks? Sandy felt a certain kind of way. I felt like it was a little selfish on his part to not really consider everyone else on Perfect Match and, and just how his. How his behavior kind of affected everyone. I was curious if you had anything to, to add to that.

[Lucy]

That. Yeah, I do think it was. I think it's a shame. I kind of wish he just waited a little bit longer to, like, go, you know, go public with. With Huda. I think that would have been nice if he just waited a little bit because it does. It does affect, like, you know, the whole cast. I agree with Sandy and I think also, like, for people that want to watch it, I think that was kind of. I saw a few people say online, like, oh, it's just a bit annoying that, you know, we know so much of what happens or like, you know, we know who doesn't end up together already. I said, yeah, like, you don't want to ruin it for people. I know. He has also done an English TV show recently. I think he filmed it a few months ago. So I guess he could argue that it was already out there that he was single at one point this year because that's just aired now and that was filmed after Perfect Match. So he is busy, I guess. Yeah, he could say, well, you know, people know that I'm single or knew that I was single because of that.

[Nick]

That.

[Lucy]

But I think maybe, yeah, maybe if he'd have waited to like, go public with his new relationship. Just so that also. Because then he gets to reveal it as well, you know, do that. Great.

[Nick]

Are you dating anyone now?

[Lucy]

I am. Yeah. I am dating.

[Scott]

He's not in there.

[Lucy]

Like, he's not. Not. Not tv. Not in the TV world. Very, very, very private. I text him before this podcast. I was like, are you okay if I just say, like, I am in a relationship, just so everyone knows? And also, that's why I wanted to put the, like, the Freddie rumors to bed, because I saw someone do a TikTok saying, like, that Freddy's Freddie had his hands on my waist at the Netflix, like, summer break. And I was. And like, my boyfriend saw that and I was like, oh, like, what? Yeah. So I was like, no, no. Like, I love Freddie. We're great friends. But, like, also, Freddie's not a touchy feely person. Like, he's just also, like, I wouldn't call him, like, a very tactile person. I was like, that's just not true.

[Scott]

Okay, so she's in a relationship and it's not with Freddie.

[Lucy]

Not with Freddie.

[Scott]

Okay.

[Lucy]

No.

[Scott]

But you're happy?

[Lucy]

Very happy. I would like to be engaged in a year. So let's see.

[Scott]

All right, we'll circle back and then.

[Nick]

Just final thoughts on how you feel about Daniel. Do you feel like, overall decent guy? Maybe just some growing up to do. Would you. Would you be cool with Daniel dating, like, a girl, you know?

[Lucy]

No. No.

[Nick]

What? What?

[Lucy]

It's really hard because I don't, like. I don't like to ever say anything bad about anyone. And it's like, I don't want to, like, you know, character assassinate someone. And if I thought he was that bad, like, obviously I wouldn't have, you know, done the whole experience with him. We did have really, really good times. Well, I mean, it depends if he's changed. If now he's watched all that back and he's changed, then great. But I just think, like, his reactions to things were just not okay. And I think. I think if he was. Yeah. Like, yeah, what?

[Nick]

I guess. What's the one thing you think he needs to work on in order for you to feel like he's changed? For that answer to be different.

[Lucy]

Different. I guess just like feeling secure in himself because, like, that, like, that's where it all dry. Just. Just insecurity, isn't it? Like, if you don't feel, you know, completely secure with the person you're with and within yourself, then, you know, that's why I said I think the boys did really affect him. And. And I said that to Louis and Louis knew that. And he was like, yeah, you know, he. He is like, definitely is someone that's affected by that. That's why I was like. I said to the boy, I said all of them one day. I was like, can you please stop? Because I was like, he. I think he would take it differently. I think they would do this especially because a lot of them were English as well. I was like, you all have this, like, English banter sometimes. Like, yeah, yeah, write each other up. And I was like, I don't think he's taking it as banter. I think he's taking it as. As, like, oh, you're, you know, your. Your girl. Like, I don't. I don't think the boys actually were, like, meant it to get to escalate how it did. Like, when. When they said I was being loud. I think they were just trying to wind him up a little bit. Bit. But it really did wide him up.

[Nick]

Yeah, but even then, he. It shouldn't have. I know you would think he would have.

[Lucy]

He shouldn't have reacted the way he reacted. And he didn't let me explain, like, even have a chat about it. That was my issue. I asked to explain and he wouldn't even let me explain.

[Scott]

It was crazy.

[Lucy]

You need to give me a chance to explain it.

[Nick]

Well, we'll get to hear from Daniel next to see if maybe he has matured a little bit. And we'll. We'll have to see.

[Scott]

We'll see.

[Lucy]

Maybe. And also, like. But equally like, it is, you know, it is. It can be a very intense. It is an intense situation. It's an intense environment. And I think he filmed his show quite a long time, like his other show before that. So. Yeah, I know. I don't. I don't want to, like, badmouth anyone because I just think, like, thought you were very nice. I don't. Well, you know, like, I don't want to be. But it was. Some of it was really hard to watch just because I was like, oh, that. I did think sometimes I was like, kind of going into myself a bit. It. I could see it and I was like, oh, that's not great.

[Nick]

Well, before we let you go, Lucy, we have a voicemail we want to play for you. It's from our Mint Mobile hot take hotline. It's just a fan that has, like a hot take about. About Perfect Match. We figured you could, you know, join us as we discuss this. This fan's hot take when it comes to Perfect Match. And you the listener. If you want to join our Mint Mobile hot take hotline, it's super easy. You just call 1-855-MENTLK or 1-85-5-64-68855. But now is the voicemail we're about to play. You ready for it, Lucy?

[Lucy]

Ready.

[Nick]

All right. Hey, Nick.

[Daniel]

Big fan of the show. I just wanted to call in and.

[Nick]

Say my hot take is about Perfect Match and Love island, all those shows. Personally, I feel like when people kiss other people in the Truth or Dare games, it's definitely cheaper. Cheating. I also know that there are challenges.

[Daniel]

But I think if you go too.

[Nick]

Far in a challenge, that's also cheating. I'm not sure I wanted to know.

[Daniel]

What you guys think.

[Nick]

Let me know. I feel like our call is referring to, like, the Heartbeat challenge on. On Love island, where, like, you know, challenges, like, are silly and fun or. Or on the mixer when, you know, well, let's just call it a game. Let's just call it a game. And then I guess it's not cheating. Did you feel cheated on, Lucy, in that moment?

[Lucy]

Yeah. That wasn't. The. The only reason you play Truth or dare is because you all want to get with each other. And the. And I'm like. And even in that challenge, like, who. Like, no one chose truth. Who chose the truth? Yeah. No. No one. Like, you play that because you want to kiss someone, and you want someone to be like, oh, I dare you to kiss the person you fancy. I dare you to do this. And you're like, oh, my God. It was a game. Like, they dared me.

[Nick]

Yeah, they might have. They might as well play it. Spin the bottle.

[Lucy]

Yeah. I was about to say, yeah, if.

[Scott]

You'Re ever at a party and someone's like, let's play spin the bottle. It's like, oh, you want to kiss someone here. Okay. Okay.

[Sandy]

Just say it.

[Lucy]

Yeah. And if you're, like, dating someone and you played spin the bottle, like, I wouldn't agree with that. I'd be like, why are you in the circle? Do you know what I mean? If you're actually locked off with someone, you wouldn't play. You'd be like, you know, hey, I'm gonna. I'll watch, but I'm not gonna partake.

[Nick]

But, babe, they were playing truth or dare.

[Lucy]

Playing Truth or Dare. It's just a game. Just a game.

[Scott]

Crazy. That was crazy.

[Lucy]

The Thylac was just a game.

[Scott]

It was just a game.

[Nick]

Thank you for playing along with us. L. Thank you again. And shout out to Mint Mobile, the sponsor of this episode for helping us ask the burning questions and giving you those hot takes. Break up with your old wireless bill and join Mint Mobile. Get this new customer offer and your three month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.comv I A L L that is mintmobile.comv I L L Again, if you want to hear us react to your flaming hot take in a future episode of Reality Recap, all you have to do is call 855-Mint TLK or if you prefer the numbers that's 855-646-8855 and leave us a voicemail. Again, just call 855-Mint TLk or 855-646-8855, and leave us a message. Lucy, can't thank you enough for taking the time. It's been a ton of fun. Congratulations on being our perfect match. Regardless of it working out with Daniel or not, happy that you seem to be in a much healthier and happier relationship. And we're excited to see it unfold. I know he's private, so we'll just. We'll just assume you're happy.

[Lucy]

Yeah. And I met my perfect female match on the show, Rachel. Grateful for that. Yeah. I just got back from Ireland with her today.

[Nick]

Oh, really?

[Lucy]

Yeah. I literally just Flew back like 3 hours ago from Dublin with her. She was like, I'm coming to Dublin. I was like, I'm coming.

[Nick]

That's amazing. Yeah. She had such a. We enjoyed watching her so much this season. It seemed like she really found herself and really enjoyed the experience and we love that for her.

[Lucy]

She's amazing. Well, thank you for having me. Yeah.

[Nick]

Thanks for coming on. Where can people follow you and all that fun stuff?

[Lucy]

Oh, on Instagram, Lucy underscore said S Y E D and then tick tock, I think is exactly the same to honest. And then once I'm in on Broadway, come see me.

[Nick]

All right, well, we heard from Lucy. It's time to hear from Daniel. Let's see if his version is any different. Let's see if he's grown matured. Maybe he'll just double down and be like, no, you do not rate a guy a 9 if you're dating Lucy. Can't thank you enough. We appreciate you.

[Lucy]

Thank you.

[Scott]

Bye.

[Nick]

Take care. Bye. Bye.

[Lucy]

Bye. Bye.

[Nick]

Well, we're about to get to our interview with Daniel, but before we do, I just want to say thank you again to Mint Mobile for sponsoring this episode. Everyone deserves to fall in love, so why shouldn't you be head over heels for your wireless Plan Fall in love with mint mobile. Get three months of unlimited premium wireless services for 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com Vll that is mintmobile.com V I A L L upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month. Month limited time. New customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan taxes and fees. Extra se. Mint mobile for details. Daniel, welcome to the show.

[Daniel]

Thank you guys so much for having me.

[Nick]

How are you doing, man?

[Daniel]

Very good. How are you guys doing?

[Nick]

We're doing great.

[Scott]

We are doing great. We, you know, we just finished Perfect match. Congratulations.

[Daniel]

Thank you.

[Nick]

Congratulations on being a perfect match. I guess.

[Daniel]

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, exactly.

[Scott]

Did that come as a surprise to you? As it did for maybe the rest the of?

[Daniel]

Um, to be honest with you, no. Being there, like, throughout the entire process, it wasn't a surprise. Um, I can see how watching this show, it's. It's a surprise to a lot of people, but to be honest with you being there, no, it. It really wasn't.

[Nick]

Okay, so, like, going into the finale, you felt like you and Lucy really were the strongest couple and you felt. You felt really good about it.

[Daniel]

I don't want to say the strongest couple because I feel like it's different for everyone, but in my eyes, at the time, yes, I thought for sure it was either going to be Ad and Ali or us. And that's is really, I think, the mindset for a lot of people.

[Nick]

Scott's here, by the way.

[Daniel]

He is. That's my guy. Yeah. Me and Scott were living together for, I don't know, it's been like six weeks now, but.

[Nick]

Okay. Are you just. Are you in town just to kind of check out?

[Louis]

Yeah, I just thought, why not? To be fair, like, again, me, Daniel, Louis and Ollie were really close on the show.

[Daniel]

He actually came down to Toronto too, after we filmed, so he came to my hometown. He stayed at my hall. Yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

Like kindred spirits.

[Daniel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Scott]

So do you live in la?

[Daniel]

I don't right now. I'm currently here. I don't have a visa to be in the States, so sometimes I.

[Nick]

You're Canadian?

[Daniel]

Yeah, yeah, Canadian and Maltese. So got a European passport in Canadian. I don't have the US One yet, but I spend like six months sometimes here. I've stayed here up to six months with my sister Julia and whatnot. But no.

[Nick]

Oh, that's your sister?

[Daniel]

Yeah, I did. Dating and related with my sister. Yeah. No, no. No assistance, though. No. First show I did.

[Scott]

Was the Julia and off.

[Nick]

All right. Like, things are going well.

[Daniel]

Showing up fashionably late with my assistant. No, without Julie, I actually wouldn't be here because I did dated and related with her. So that's why I'm. I'm here.

[Nick]

Okay. I was like, I kind of forgot what show you did.

[Daniel]

I know. Well, to be honest with you, I think it's the name's fault of the show, Dated and Related, but it was.

[Nick]

Actually because I haven't seen it. And I'm just going to make sure that.

[Daniel]

Yeah.

[Nick]

That you guys weren't dating.

[Daniel]

No, no, no, we aren't. But do you know how happy I am now to finally tell people? Oh, no, I did Perfect Match before. I was like, you dated your sister and we. I always have to be like, explain and related. Pretty much it's a dating show, but you bring your siblings. So unlucky for me, I was with my younger sister, so guys would be hitting on her and, you know, imagine you just had your brother in there. You guys are just doing what you have to do. So.

[Nick]

I feel like we need to give her a mic.

[Scott]

Everyone needs. Yeah. I want to know if she was shocked by your. Some of your antics on Perfect Match. What do you think your family's reaction to that was?

[Daniel]

To which. Which one she reacted to?

[Nick]

It's mostly around making Lucy cry.

[Daniel]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick]

See, well.

[Daniel]

Well, I do want to put it out there. Obviously, it's. It's not a good feeling when I'm. When I'm seeing it, seeing her cry. And even when. When that did happen, I wouldn't say that was ever my intention. Obviously, looking back, I don't know. Obviously you reflect. This is so long ago, and obviously I never wanted that to happen.

[Nick]

Did you remember it differently than how you watch it? Because obviously, absolutely.

[Daniel]

Over a year ago, for sure. Being in the villa, like, the emotions are just so intense. And I think at some points, maybe things seem to be a lot more of a bigger deal than they actually are. Maybe on the outside world, it wouldn't even be like that, you know, but yeah, of course, like, I scored a nine on the kissing challenge, and it wasn't a ten.

[Nick]

Nine.

[Scott]

Pretty high.

[Daniel]

Absolutely. And there's always room for improvement. Right? But I really wanted that 10 that day. And to be honest with you, yeah, I was. Obviously, I didn't feel good about.

[Nick]

Why were you so upset? I mean, because, like, from our perspective, and maybe it's different because you don't know what it's like to be there, but, like, you know, very much like Allah, like Love Island. Like, the games are the games and they're not meant to be taken that.

[Daniel]

No, they aren't. They aren't. And. And I don't know, I guess I have a competitive n. I like to think that, you know, maybe I do come across a little bit protective. I feel like I'm a little bit old fashioned in some senses. And to be honest with you, a lot of us didn't even want to partake in the challenge. Right. So going into the challenge where all the couples are like, I don't even want to do it. I don't want to do it. And then sure enough, we get there and, you know, the point is to immerse yourself in the experience. I get that. I like to think maybe at the time, the reason why I was so upset was because the person that you're know, you're sharing a bed with with each and every day and you're kissing them 24 7. In my eyes, we were just like, we were so confident. I was telling her, I was like, there's no chance I'm going to mess you up and vice versa. And I don't know, it's. Guys, it's a kissing challenge. At the end of the day, looking back, it's not that deep. But yeah, for one of my boys, that he's got a big, big old beard and we're just not really, in my. My eyes, similar. And I, I like to think that, you know, for me, I knew everyone I was kissing, but obviously it's not that.

[Nick]

What about the part? Because, like, when we were talking to Lucy, she. She kind of mentioned. And we didn't get to see it, but she mentioned that, like, she was cr. Apparently, I guess according to Lucy, you were like, well, I don't care if you're crying. And she was like, really noticeably upset. And I'm kind of thinking, all right, fine, I get it. Like, I've, I've. I've overreacted at times. Yeah, I've been upset. But clearly she's upset that she got it wrong and she's clearly sorry. And at that point, yeah, that's obviously.

[Daniel]

When you gotta put your pride or ego aside and just kind of handle the situation itself. I feel like a switch. I don't know. Obviously if you watch it, there's definitely like a switch inside me where I'm like, okay, you just made a girl cry. Like, your feelings aren't that. It's not that important. So, like, I ran out of the shower and like, went up to her and, you know, tried to make things right. But obviously looking back, like, I 100 see that I was in the wrong, and I can own that. I'm not here to make excuses for myself. And that's. That's the truth of it.

[Nick]

What was it about you and Lucy just that draw you to her in the first place?

[Daniel]

To be honest with you, I liked her personality and something about her in the sense where that first night I did, we were making, like, eye contact across the room. I feel like I'm pretty good at observing energy and I don't know, I just felt like it was important. I tried and have a conversation with her. And as much as I was having fun with Juliet and kicking things off with her, I was just like, I gotta have a conversation with her. And then she told me the same thing. She's like, I really wanted to talk to you too. And I don't know, just felt. Felt right.

[Nick]

Did your sister have any comments for you after watching back? Did you watch Perfect Match?

[Lucy]

I did watch it.

[Daniel]

I think she had multiple, to be honest.

[Nick]

Yeah. What did you think?

[Sandy]

Yeah, like, he's my brother, so I understand where he's coming from and I know, like, the emotions that he's feeling, so I understand, like, when he's reacting.

[Lucy]

Like, I get how he feels.

[Scott]

I think sometimes we can have, like.

[Sandy]

Big egos maybe, and we do get.

[Lucy]

A little jealous, so I get it. And.

[Scott]

And I also think, like, she.

[Sandy]

Lucy did say, like, she doesn't like confrontation. So I think for her it was uncomfortable to have, like, someone like Daniel who's really, like, up front, like, tell her exactly what he's feeling. So they just, like, didn't have the best, like, communication with each other, but it's like an intense situation.

[Scott]

So obviously, you know, I. I know how I've seen him treat girls properly.

[Lucy]

Like, I.

[Sandy]

It's tough to see people judge, like, only a part of him and I know all of him.

[Nick]

Yeah, she's got your back.

[Scott]

Did you feel like maybe some of the guys riled you up in a sense where maybe do you mean.

[Daniel]

Oh, I don't want to put any excuses on the guys. I thought you were talking about boys day. I was gonna say 100% for that.

[Scott]

We'll get. Oh, no, we'll get to the voice mixer, I guess. I mean, more around when Lucy was laughing with Rhae.

[Nick]

Yeah, she was laughing.

[Daniel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what's funny? I swear that is not the way I remembered it. I don't know if it was too many drinks or whatever. But, yeah, like, again, someone's allowed to laugh. They're allowed to be loud and enjoy themselves.

[Scott]

Can I tell you what the conversation was? You're like, nope, you can'.

[Daniel]

I know. Yeah. Looking back, like, people. I know. And that's what a lot of. That's what a lot of people are saying to you. Like, you can lick a girl's leg up and down, but she can't laugh pretty loud. And I'm like, I see how it looks.

[Nick]

Bring it down to a floor, please.

[Daniel]

Yeah. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah. What was the exact comment? It was like, is that decibel? Yeah. No, obviously you don't. You know, I. I don't really like the way I came across. I take full accountability for that. That is actually not me. It's also difficult saying that. That's not me. And people seeing that. I understand you. You do a reality show, that's what people see. That's how they're going to judge you. That's fair. But, yeah, no, in. In hindsight, I'm like, that's. That's pretty ridiculous. But I don't know. I wanted to know what they were laughing at. That seemed. Seemed pretty funny to everybody.

[Scott]

Did you ever find out what it was?

[Daniel]

No, no, no, no, I didn't. I didn't even cry. Like, I'm just kidding.

[Nick]

Just in general, though. I mean, Lucy, I guess, in the spirit of trying to give you grace, was kind of suggesting that like. Like, the. The British boys, one of them over. Over there, were just kind of. Yeah. Like, I don't know, just giving you locker room talk or whatever.

[Daniel]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Like, kind of trying to get on your skin. And May. And she's thought, like, maybe in the moment when you're getting to know these guys, maybe you kind of took it a little too. You know, they have a different sense of humor than you. And. And you were just kind of getting annoyed and they were.

[Daniel]

I think. I think absolutely. That happened in. In so many cases for different people. Because, you know, you're in the house, you're kind of asking opinion and even take it for, for example, Scott's thing when he walked out, and everyone's like, oh, my God, they're holding hands. They're holding hands at the time. We look back and we're like, you know, it's. It's obviously not that deep, but you're 100% right in the moment. Like, for some reason, it felt so much bigger than it truly was. And people are like, are you Kidding me. You know, like she's just laughing and I know that. But yeah, when you're. But we got so close. So you do value like the people around you's opinions. Like it's like a tight knit group and. Yeah, I don't want to make excuses for myself. That one's on me though.

[Nick]

What do you, what do you think, Scott? Do you think you're trying to get under his skin? Oh, yeah.

[Louis]

But I also feel, I, I also feel for him in a way because if he was acting that way towards Juliet, for example, Juliet comes back at him and he doesn't look bad for it. But, but because Lucy's like such a soft spoken girl and she is quite emotion and all that, as soon as he says something, Lucy is going to get emotional and instantly he's the villain. And then whilst if you do do it to Juliet, she comes back, you're just having an argument. He doesn't look like the villain. So it is, it is down to him to, to know what type of girl he's dealing with. But I do feel, feel for him in a little way. The way it's come across.

[Nick]

You're also kind of just like a big.

[Daniel]

Yeah. I'm going to be honest with you, I feel like I'm actually like a soft teddy bear on the inside though. So I, I don't, I don't know if like I just, I feel bad like that I came across that way.

[Nick]

I really do. That's all you can do.

[Daniel]

Yeah. I really didn't mean to. That wasn't my intention. But. Yeah.

[Nick]

Well, since we're just giving you right now, we might as well just talk about the mixer.

[Daniel]

Yeah. Get right into it.

[Nick]

Get right into it. Yeah. I mean, I don't know, like, you know, you weren't the only one. Right. Like all the guys kind of acted like it was almost as if it was part of their job to take advantage of the women that were casted for them at the mixer. As if like you guys didn't want to be rude.

[Scott]

Almost like they came all the way here.

[Nick]

Yeah. She's like, why wouldn't we play truth or dare?

[Daniel]

Yeah, I, I wouldn't. Will I, I will say this, that you know, leading up to it, it was like, I'm obviously not going to lie. I did not as much as I cared for Lucy at the time. And you know, on the way back, on the drive back, my tail's between my legs and I'm like, you know, what did I do? That was, that was silly. I Can say it. And I mean it in the nicest way. Like, we were just having a good time together, and it sounds really bad to say. And I know they got me on there saying, you know, hall pass situation. It just felt like I was on vacation. My friends. And it was a crazy bachelor party. It did, and it really was.

[Nick]

And I suppose that is the. The show.

[Daniel]

And then, of course, like, when it pants to them, they're playing patty cake, and we're. It's not a good look and at all.

[Scott]

What.

[Nick]

What are the expectations? Like what. Like, conversations you and the guys had as you guys are going to the mixer? I mean, they kind of sprung the mixer on you fairly quickly.

[Daniel]

Yeah. So you don't, like.

[Nick]

You leave right away. Yeah. I forgot who we talked to, but it sounded like you guys didn't have much, like, downtime of. To kind. Kind of really talk to each other. Whatever expectations, you don't.

[Daniel]

You don't.

[Nick]

You guys just disappear. But on your way there, what are the guys saying to each other in terms of what's going to. What's about to go down?

[Daniel]

Well, I can't repeat all the conversations, but what I can say is, obviously there was definitely a big push to be like, you know, Daniel, you really haven't done anything. You know, it's. It's time for you to, like, you know, explore your option. And Nick Lachey always. And everyone was saying the producers the entire time, I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but, you know, immerse yourself in the experience. Go for it. And to be honest with you, with you, I had no expectation in my head that I was gonna do anything. Like, I did. There was nothing in my head, like, I'm gonna go do this. It was just like, let. Let's go. And I went, and it got out of hand very, very fast.

[Nick]

Is there in a weird way, because I. I think in those environments, I've been in them in the past, they. It's. You re. It's really crazy how high schooly it feels, honestly.

[Daniel]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Do you think. Think whether it's you or just all of the men. And you can speak to this Scott, too. Like, do you feel almost like you guys kind of gave into the peer pressure? Almost like, don't be a almost.

[Daniel]

Oh, absolutely. You can see in the conversations we're having, and the boys are, like, psyching each other, saying, like, imagine what they're doing. Imagine what they're doing. Little do we know, they're doing absolutely nothing.

[Nick]

And, like, in every reality TV show where they have this kind of format. It's always. The women are just like, cheap, chilling, just waiting for their guys, just working on their tan. You guys walk in, they're like, ew.

[Lucy]

My guys.

[Nick]

And the guys are just always like, oh, my God, women. I've never seen them before.

[Daniel]

That's. That's what it looked like, honestly. And you know what's weird? We were just having a couple drinks, the girls come, and out of nowhere, it just turns into a game. And for some reason, that's just what it felt like. It felt like you were in, like, college playing, like, spin the ball. It was just. It was ridiculous.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Scott]

How. Whose idea was it to play Drew through?

[Daniel]

Well, I think they have me saying something first. I don't. I'm not too sure, but I think it was just. I'm not throwing anyone another. But I think it was just everybody. Scott, who was it? I don't remember.

[Louis]

I think this is just like. It's a messy show. It's not. You can't hold it to the standards of. I know there's people from the Bachelor, Love is Blind, which is a lot to do with marriage, but it's a messy show. You can't hold the people accountable to them standards when. When they're up on here. When we went to the boys, there, we were like a week and a half in. No one's in a relationship.

[Nick]

No.

[Louis]

Nothing's that serious. Like, if he's having a bit of fun, he's having a bit of fun. How he. How he went about it, obviously that's down to him to speak on, but. Yeah, I don't think it's that deep.

[Nick]

Well, I would agree with you. It's a silly show. I think where they get you, I suppose, is, I guess, like, on the way back where.

[Daniel]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I mean, to Louie's credit, we come.

[Daniel]

Back with our shirts off.

[Nick]

Yeah. And then Louis, you know, Louis. We kind of joke that Louis presents as, like, an honest fun boy, where it's just like, he doesn't pretend that he honestly like his boyfriend material. He's kind of like, yeah, I'm a.

[Scott]

Menace.

[Nick]

You know, and he kind. And he came back and he didn't like. But he seemed to be at least the most forthright of. Of the group of guys, where he's like, ah, yeah, it. I. Whatever. I. Oops. And. And you guys kind of. It's like. I think that's where they kind of get you. Is like, at least come back and just. Just if it's not that serious. Jim, just be like, hey, yeah. And then, I don't know, I made up some chicks. Yeah, no, that is.

[Louis]

That is true. To be fair, I think, again, this isn't my podcast, but speaking for me personally, I got to a point where I was like, I don't even care to tell the truth, really. Like, we've been together, like, two, three days. Like, it's. It's so not that deep at all.

[Nick]

You were just more like, I don't want to hear from you.

[Louis]

Like, it just is what it is.

[Nick]

Like, I don't care what you have.

[Louis]

Too many times now.

[Nick]

Can't.

[Daniel]

Yeah. And for example, like, speaking on my. For me, it was just.

[Lucy]

Just.

[Daniel]

I don't know. I was more so in shock that, like, I couldn't believe what went down. And then, obviously, looking back, you see, I'm sure if, you know, maybe I wasn't so upset at some of the things with Lucy, then maybe it wouldn't have been such a big, like, well, how can you get mad at someone for that and then go do that? So that's where I understand, you know, where people are coming to me and giving it to me for that. I. I can understand that. But, yeah, it's weird. I. I did my best to, like, own up to it. Obviously. I think I did leave out pretty large portion of the Just hanging out with Olivia and picking up and looking light. But to me, again, I didn't view it as, like, individual thing. I viewed it as, like, one day playing a game, and it just kind of went a little bit. A little bit nuts, you know?

[Scott]

So you just viewed it as, like, hey, let's just count the whole day out. Like, let's. You just assume I did the worst, and I don't need to tell you the details, but you just, like, it was bad.

[Daniel]

I think it was just bad overall. Like, there was no if, ands, or buts about it. And I think obviously, we knew AD Was there. The truth is always coming out.

[Lucy]

Right?

[Nick]

That's true. Yeah.

[Sandy]

I was gonna say, if AD hadn't been there, do you guys think that y' all would have taken that to the end of the show, or would there have been?

[Daniel]

I think that because there ended up being a mixer the next day with everybody, I think those girls would have done everything in their power to let them know, because at the end of the day, they're trying to come into the house.

[Lucy]

Right, right.

[Daniel]

Because those girls were saying to us every time they met us, like, how are you guys not more open to be in the situation, you know, it's only been a couple of days. And then obviously it came to the end. And, you know, people are saying, I. I can't believe you were able to go back and match with them.

[Scott]

Or I would like to address some of your comments regarding. At the boys mixer, when you're talking about Olivia being so much more.

[Daniel]

Oh, my.

[Scott]

Physical type than Lucy.

[Daniel]

Okay. Well, I wouldn't say she's so much more attractive. I would just say if, you know Daniel, you know me as a person, they would say that Olivia is more my type. But, no, they're both obviously beautiful in their own right.

[Scott]

We did obviously talk to Lucy, and I think she said that that was one of the things, watching back that she was like, that felt, you know, a little hurtful and uncalled for. I think all the guys kind of were also being like, oh, yeah, Olivia this, Olivia that.

[Daniel]

Like, yeah, obviously, that's. Obviously, that's not good to hear. I'm sure if it was the other way, I wouldn't like it. So I don't mean no disrespect by it. I think I was trying to just say, you know, physical type. She was just more of a physical type.

[Nick]

Okay. How do you want people. Since obviously, like, a lot of, you know, it's a reality TV show. Obviously, to Scott's point, you know, it is a silly show and there's some messiness in it. You guys come all.

[Daniel]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So how. How would you describe yourself as a partner now in today's world? Like, what. What kind of boyfriend do you think Daniel is?

[Daniel]

I like to think I'm a very loyal guy, confident in the relationship, willing to do whatever it takes, like, to make people better. I like to make myself better. Yeah, that's. That's really what I would say. Obviously, looking back on the show, you know, it was so long ago, but obviously it's important to reflect in any situation what I want some things to go different. Different, sure. But at the end of the day, I'm also very grateful I got to do it. I look back to be able to reflect. That's not okay. That is. It's also important, you know, so everything happens for a reason. I truly believe that, and I think I'm better for it now.

[Lucy]

Okay.

[Scott]

Your co star, Hannah. I think Scott maybe you know Hannah a little bit better, but she recently came on social media and said that Louis had a child.

[Lucy]

Child.

[Daniel]

Okay.

[Scott]

Did he tell you about his kid?

[Daniel]

He didn't tell me about that. No. I just don't. I don't really talk about that, you know, it's not really my business. I don't. I don't really know.

[Nick]

Yeah, they don't want to talk about it. We gotta respect that.

[Daniel]

Hannah's is pregnant though, by the way.

[Scott]

Yeah, I think that's.

[Lucy]

Yes.

[Scott]

Another thing Lucy brought up was that y' all all went on like events.

[Daniel]

We went to, we stayed in Mexico.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Daniel]

Scott, myself, Louie and Sandy.

[Nick]

You definitely sound like you're Toronto feeling. Does it come out when you people.

[Daniel]

Because people.

[Nick]

How do you. It's like.

[Daniel]

Sorry, sorry.

[Nick]

No, no, no, no, sorry.

[Daniel]

Yeah, no, we did, we shared. It was actually a really fun time, to be honest with you. We obviously filmed the show in Tulum. We went to Cancun, stay at a resort. It was, it was a good time.

[Scott]

How did you choose the group that.

[Louis]

Was going, I think like the people who are sort of in the house most of the time because I don't know if the episodes really reflected like it was over a three week period and obviously me, Daniel, Louis, Ollie were really close during it. Ollie and ad sort of went on, went off and did their own thing. I was single at the time, so it just left them two in their couples. And yeah, we just ended up. We were flying from Cancun anyway, so we thought, right, we'll do a. Do a couple of days here.

[Scott]

And how was that vacation for you and Lucy?

[Daniel]

I thought it was really good. I had a good time. We went out, we went to dinners. Lucy and I was fun. I enj it spend some time by the beach. Obviously that was the, the trip we went on. We didn't go on the actual trip, but yeah, it wasn't actually. So it says Fiji, but we actually switched that. It was going to be like a safari, like an Amazon safari.

[Sandy]

Zanzibar.

[Daniel]

Yeah, well, you know what's up?

[Lucy]

I take notes.

[Daniel]

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, unfortunately that didn't happen. But the, the time we did spend together on the trip was.

[Nick]

When you left the show, were you optimistic that things could work out with Lucy?

[Daniel]

I was optimistic for sure. At the same time, we both quickly found out, you know, how difficult it is just like long distance in general credit to anyone that's able to do that. For me it was just we're in different countries, you know, she's going out, I'm inside, vice versa. It's just the time zone.

[Scott]

It was just like red receipts on and stuff.

[Daniel]

What's that?

[Scott]

You like the red receipts on?

[Daniel]

Oh, no, I don't need that. I don't need that.

[Nick]

Yeah, how do you draw the line between the kind of, you know, I'm a traditional old school guy, maybe more conservative in his approach versus, like your critics might call it, more like possessive jealousy type of energy?

[Daniel]

Sure.

[Nick]

I think even Lucy kind of mentioned there was a remark that she didn't love or something about her top or a long skirt or short skirt or something. And she was like, what skirt should I wear? And you said, you're gonna wear the short skirt. And she didn't appreciate really. Or something. But regardless, I mean, I think that, I think it's a fine line to like, I mean, any relationship you just, you know, I don't know, like, like how our partners dress matters. And I think we have. We're allowed to feel a certain way with. Within a certain reason. But like, how do you. Yeah. What would you say to someone who says, oh, that Daniel, I don't know, he's. He's red flag, he's possessive or whatever.

[Daniel]

Well, again, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. You know, I think first off, anyone can wear whatever they want, unaware. I think that maybe looking back, even in some of the communication, maybe I say some things that I mean in a different way and the way I come across can be entirely different.

[Nick]

Sure.

[Daniel]

But no, yeah. I don't know. People can have their own opinion of me. I know who I am. I'm very confident in that. I also think it's important when you do something wrong to reflect, maybe, maybe change some things. But yeah, I don't know. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I can't. I can't change that. I don't think it's my job to want to change people's opinion. I know who I am and I think it's important to accept responsibility for what I've done wrong. And.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Do you think you'll. Would, Would you come back if they were like, you know what? He won season three. Is it three? Would you go back to Perfect Match?

[Daniel]

I'm not too sure. I think I'd love to do more shows. Maybe something more along the lines of like a challenge show or something. Okay. Yeah. Dating show. I don't know right now, not really something I'm thinking about, but I was super grateful for the experience. I did have a good time. Yeah. I don't know, looking back, I also think it's like trippy for me because. And she. I don't know what she has said, but what she told me, like, we actually really did have a good time. She said that based on, you know, how it looks or whatever. I understand why people wouldn't think that, but I can only speak for myself. I actually did have a really good time. And obviously, there's moments where in any relationship, marriage, where we aren't our best self and we don't have good days and, you know, maybe things get out of hand, but to be honest with you, super grateful to do it with her. I don't think I could have done it with anybody else. We both said on more than one occasion that if it wasn't for each other, we just walk out and not do it. But, yeah, super grateful for it. I don't look at it as, like, you know, my God, I won the show. I mean, anything, obviously. I think the most important thing is to find more within yourself to be successful at a relationship. You know, like, a perfect match isn't perfect or it's different for everybody. Everybody, you know.

[Nick]

So is there anyone that you got to know while filming Perfect Match where you felt like they come across better than you remember?

[Daniel]

Like, based on if I knew them before or just how they are on.

[Nick]

This show, I'm a big believer, actually, that most people are made to look better than they are, than worse. Where a lot of people on reality TV complain about their edit and things like that, and certainly every once in a while. And I know what it's like. Someone takes a bad beat, takes the l. You know, context is lost.

[Daniel]

Absolutely.

[Nick]

You look like an asshole. But a lot of times they're, you know, a lot of people looking or look great, look romantic, look nice, look fun, and they're kind of pricks in person.

[Daniel]

Yeah. That's fair, I would say. I think Clayton's a really nice guy. I think he's taken a lot of heat.

[Nick]

But we like Clayton. Yeah.

[Daniel]

And the conversations I had with them. And throughout the entire way, he was always just super nice to me and super real. Even after the show.

[Nick]

Show.

[Daniel]

I thought Juliet was really fun. She was funny.

[Nick]

Anyone you weren't a fan of?

[Daniel]

Not really. I think I was surprised to hear Sandy said stuff on your podcast or whatever about me.

[Nick]

What she said, I don't know.

[Daniel]

I think you asked something about sensitive or she said something along the lines of, I don't know, something about her and Louie's relationship or Louis acted a certain way because of me or something. And I found that interesting because if anybody knows Louis, Louis gonna just do Louis. He's not gonna listen to what anyone has to say or does.

[Nick]

So you felt like she was blaming you for Louis actions?

[Daniel]

Well, that's what she said, and that's fine. But I had a good relationship with Sandy. I had a good relationship with everyone on the show. Yeah.

[Scott]

And are you dating anyone currently?

[Daniel]

Yes, I am.

[Lucy]

You are?

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Lucy]

Who.

[Daniel]

I'm going to keep that one a little bit private for now, but it's not.

[Nick]

Is she. Is she a public figure?

[Daniel]

She's not.

[Lucy]

Okay.

[Nick]

Yeah, we love a Normie.

[Scott]

We do. We love a Normie.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Daniel]

Yeah. I'm actually really excited about it, to be honest. We actually knew each other a long time ago. She's a couple years younger than I am, and, yeah, we're from a similar area.

[Nick]

Sister approve?

[Lucy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nick]

That matters.

[Daniel]

Yeah.

[Lucy]

Yeah, she's great.

[Nick]

You guys always been close, you and your sister?

[Daniel]

Yeah. Well, obviously, since we filmed the show together, we got super close, but, yeah, no, we are definitely value her opinion and the good, the bad, and the ugly, when I do things wrong and right, but, yeah, absolutely.

[Scott]

Has your girlfriend watched Perfect Match or did she stay with us?

[Daniel]

Yeah, she. She obviously doesn't really, you know, want to be too much on social media with. With what she's seen from the show, but I also was pretty honest about the experience and. Yeah.

[Nick]

Did she watch the mixer episode?

[Daniel]

I don't think so. So I think I told her not to watch it. Okay.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Natalie's never seen any of my work.

[Lucy]

I haven't.

[Scott]

I've never watched any of him falling in love.

[Daniel]

Yeah, I'm sure that's. I'm sure that's not easy for anyone to see.

[Nick]

Well, anything else you want to leave us with? Thanks for coming, man. You know, we weren't really sure what to expect. You know, we didn't want to drill you too much.

[Daniel]

No.

[Nick]

I'll give you an opportunity to kind of hear your side. Yeah.

[Daniel]

Yeah. Well, hopefully I spoke. Spoke, you know, well enough, but. I'm sorry I was late, guys, by the way.

[Nick]

Yeah, that was really your biggest offense. Yeah. Honestly.

[Daniel]

Yeah. I was trying to get that parking meter to work outside, but it's a parking meter.

[Scott]

Listen, honestly, it's like you have these opinions of people on the show, you know, and you don't agree with a lot of things that they do, but then when they come in here and they take accountability and they like everything that you've done, I mean, there's really not much else we can say. You know, it's like when you say, like, yeah, that was fucked up. I shouldn't have done that.

[Lucy]

I've grown from that.

[Scott]

I don't want to make that mistake again. Then it's like, okay, well, case closed.

[Lucy]

Easy.

[Nick]

Yeah. Because you know if you. If you do it again, your girlfriend is going to go on. Well, he's got. So she'll keep you in check. Daniel, I really appreciate you taking the time, man.

[Daniel]

Thank you, guys.

[Nick]

Where can people find you before we let you go? Where can they follow you?

[Daniel]

Find me on Instagram, Daniel. Perfetto underscore because someone took my name. But Daniel, put our TikTok. Whatever. But, yeah.

[Scott]

Scott, what about you?

[Nick]

What about you, Scott?

[Louis]

I'm just Scott. VDS17 on everything.

[Lucy]

So. Okay, pretty simple.

[Nick]

Are we gonna see you back on reality tv? No.

[Louis]

I put a post up the other day saying I'm retired now, but honestly, God knows.

[Scott]

Love Island Games.

[Louis]

No, I won't be doing that. I won't go. I won't go and do anything I've already done. That's one part.

[Nick]

What was more intense for you? Love island or a Perfect match?

[Louis]

Love Island 100. Because I held myself to, like, a much higher standard. The shows I've done since, like, it has been a little bit of, like, a, like, messy.

[Nick]

Do you keep tabs on Love island or.

[Louis]

Yeah, well, the UK one. Yeah, the US one. I see. Sort. But I don't really know what's going on. The UK one, I've been. I've been sort of keeping up to date with. Don't know if you've been watching it.

[Scott]

We have not.

[Nick]

Not the UK.

[Lucy]

The US and I'm like on episode.

[Sandy]

30 out of 65, so I don't.

[Louis]

Know if you agree with this. I think the UK one was way better than the US one this year. 100% fully agree.

[Nick]

And why do you feel like that?

[Louis]

I just feel like the drama was better and.

[Sandy]

And genuine.

[Louis]

Yeah, I feel like it was a little bit more genuine last year. The US one was definitely better. Our UK season wasn't. Wasn't a good one, but the UK one this year was. Was quite good.

[Sandy]

I need to finish it. But, yeah, no, I'm loving.

[Nick]

Do you think it's all wannabe influencers now? Do you think that's what it is?

[Louis]

Yeah, it's definitely got to that point. You're like, America's having its moment now, which we had in, like, 2019 with Tommy Fury, Molly May and all that. That was our biggest season. America's having that moment now, and you just. You're gonna get people who want to come on and do it for fame, do it for influence and stuff, but.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Lucy]

Okay.

[Sandy]

All right, guys.

[Daniel]

Well, thanks for coming Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

[Nick]

All right, well, hope you enjoyed that.

[Scott]

Listen, I. I tried. I tried to get him to. To admit some things, you know, tough cookie to pull things out of. But he did. I mean, he took accountability, I guess.

[Nick]

He was. He didn't try to defend himself.

[Scott]

He did not try to defend himself. He did not pull a ts.

[Nick]

I don't think he fully owned all the things he did.

[Scott]

No. God, no.

[Nick]

But it was kind of like a. Like a high level no.

[Scott]

Like when you said Lucy was telling us about a scenario where you, you know, wouldn't let her wear like that, different outfits or whatever, and he was like, really?

[Sandy]

Oh, really?

[Lucy]

She said that?

[Sandy]

No, the red receipts.

[Lucy]

The red receipts.

[Sandy]

Because I don't.

[Lucy]

I don't need that.

[Scott]

Lucy literally was like, specifically, he had a problem with me turning off my red receipts. I'm like, oh, do you like your red. The red receipts on? He's like, no, I've never.

[Sandy]

Literally never once.

[Scott]

I've never cared about that. Oh, okay, sir, don't protest too much.

[Nick]

Yeah. Well, that's today's episode. Hope you enjoyed it. Don't forget to check out our Going Deeper with James Gunn next week. We have a great week lined up for you are Going Deeper with the Nader sisters. Stars of Love Thy Nader is next Wednesday. You're going to want to listen to that. It's fun. It's messy. I really think this show is going to be a hit. We have more in store for you as well next week. Can't wait. Enjoy your weekend. Thank you to our guests, Daniel and Lucy. I hope their perfect match is waiting for both of you of them out there. Well, they both.

[Sandy]

They're matched with someone, right?

[Nick]

They're both matched with people.

[Sandy]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Lucy]

We wish you well.

[Nick]

We do. And as I reminded Daniel, hey, listen, we don't care, but if you pull this whatever shit you did or didn't do, your new girlfriend I'm sure will be making tiktoks about it if it doesn't work out.

[Sandy]

Yeah, who the fuck did I date? Part 15.

[Lucy]

We love love.

[Nick]

Just go on a podcast if you have to make 15 parts.

[Sandy]

You know they love it. And I don't come back.

[Nick]

Well, thanks again to our guests Lucy and Daniel and. And thank you, Mint Mobile.

[Scott]

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[Nick]

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