Caller 1 (2:56)

You're crazy.

Host (3:08)

How's it going?

Caller 2 (3:09)

Good, thanks. How are you?

Host (3:10)

Good. What's your name?

Caller 2 (3:12)

My name is Patricia and I'm 30.

Host (3:14)

How can I help? Patricia?

Caller 2 (3:16)

My best friend's relationship is making her ill and I don't know what to do.

Host (3:20)

Okay, like, how, how ill?

Caller 2 (3:22)

Like, quite ill. She has really bad anxiety and she's been having, like, terrible panic attacks. Insomnia?

Host (3:31)

Yeah.

Caller 2 (3:31)

She's like, looking pretty ill. Is she.

Host (3:34)

Does she associate her anxiety and panic attacks to her relationship or is that something you and the rest of the friends are doing?

Caller 2 (3:46)

I think a bit of both. I think she knows that it's one of the big triggers for her, but I think that she would see it more as like, the anxiety is, like playing a role in her relationship versus it's the relationship that's causing the anxiety.

Host (4:02)

What else does she think is causing her anxiety?

Caller 2 (4:05)

Probably just work, life, stress, all of that.

Host (4:09)

Tell me about this relationship that she's in.

Caller 2 (4:12)

Actually, also, since I wrote in, they did break up.

Host (4:15)

Oh, they did. Okay.

Caller 2 (4:16)

But well, no, no, it's not good yet. They're still seeing each other all the time. I can see on five, my friends, like, she's over there a lot.

Host (4:25)

Okay, who brought, who ended the relationship?

Caller 2 (4:28)

Him, sort of. I think he was like, this is not healthy. I don't. I want the same things as you. And then since they broke up, we were like, great. Kind of a clean break. I think she was probably never going to do it. But now he's like, oh, maybe I do want the same things. We just need to be in a better place. And yeah, a lot of times.

Host (4:46)

Do you think they're a bad match or do you think he's a bad guy or both?

Caller 2 (4:52)

I think he's probably not a bad person. I think he's just not really. It's his first relationship and I think he's probably not ready for a relationship. But I also think they're a terrible match. I think their communication styles are really different. She's an anxious person. He's very much like, I don't want to talk about it. She wants to plan everything. He's like, that makes me nervous. Yeah, it's a bit of both.

Host (5:16)

Okay, what can I help you with?

Caller 2 (5:18)

I don't really know what to do about it. And I've been getting. It's affecting me way too much. I don't know why I care so much.

Host (5:26)

Why is it affecting you so much? Like, what. Who is this friend to you, so to speak? Like, is she like your lifelong. Like, have you known her since you were 6? Do you feel pain? Like, you know, like, I mean, you know, obviously she's a close friend, but what you're describing is he's not a bad guy. It's just like, they're just. They fight all the time. And I, you know, he's, you know.

Caller 2 (5:46)

It'S like, I think I'm. Yeah, I don't know why it's affecting me so much. Like, I think that's one of the reasons I'm calling in and also how to talk to her about it because I'm really struggling to do it in the right way.

Host (5:57)

Does she come to you about this relationship or other people and it's exhausting, or is she afraid to even come to you guys because she kind of already knows how you all feel?

Caller 2 (6:06)

I think she knows how everyone feels. She is talking about it a bit more now because they've broken up. So it's a bit more like in the open. I think beforehand she wouldn't really talk about it and then there'd be a blow up every few months and then she would talk about it. But I think some of the reasons it's affecting me and this is also where I don't really know how to handle it is like, I don't want to be selfish because I know that she needs support, but I have very strong feelings on it because I'm so worried about seeing her unhappy in the future if she stays with him. I just don't see how they get out of this quite toxic pattern. And then I think the other thing is that it's made her a really bad friend. It's so hard to talk to her about good stuff because I'm really worried that it will make her sort of jealous or unhappy and then bad stuff she just doesn't have the mental headspace for. And we live in different countries, so it's like even harder. You don't see her in the small, day to day things. So I think there's a bit of that that I'm finding difficult. But I'm also mainly just really worried about what her future looks like if they stay together.

Host (7:19)

There's not a ton you can do. In fact, I guess from what I'm hearing, it almost sounds like you're doing too much in a sense. I think probably. She. How old is she? Around your age.

Caller 2 (7:34)

She's also 30.

Host (7:35)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's an adult person. Right. And she's. This is her life. Right. And I think as adults we have to walk a very fine line between just allowing our friends, our family members to, to live their life. You, you know, you can't help people who don't want to help themselves. It doesn't sound like your friends in any immediate danger. This is not like some dangerous bad guy she's dating who's, you know, has her under his spell. He's gaslighting her. It's just like two people. Sounds like, you know, he's a rookie at this. So it makes a lot of sense why he, maybe he's not the best communicator and, and why, you know, since it's his first relationship, she probably has more control and power in this relationship than you're probably giving her credit for. Not necessarily, you know, that only just based off of like if it's, if he is at least, at least sincere in this. Like, you know, it's his first love, it's his first relationship, he doesn't know what it's like. And I'm speaking in very generalities, generalities here. So like, I could be way off on this guy. But usually like in your first relationship, you just, you don't know any better. Right. You don't know if you can, if there's a better match out there for you. You, you don't know if the fights you have with your partner are normal. We always hear growing up that like, relationships are really hard. They take work. It's not always going to be the honeymoon phase. You have to get through moments of adversity. And those are all true. Right. It's just the question is, is this adversity that two people still like, are aligned and want to come together and work through their issues, or is it just like, which often happens in these toxic relationships is like they're, they're, they're fighting as individuals trying to get the other person to do what it is they think they need. And, and they're, they're not equipped emotionally or they're, or, and not seeking out like third party help through couples therapy or friends who maybe like, you know, have been through it before and trying to listen to reason and yeah, I'd be, you know, and those types of relationships who, I don't know what she is saying to him at times or what he says to her. And in moments of fear, right. And that fear of like when they're at the cross sort of breaking up or. Right now. Right, right now they broke up. Right. Like he, according to you, like, sounds like he was like, you know what? I don't know if I can do this. I don't know if I want the same thing. Let's break up. And now they're already hanging out again, which like for both parties now they're kind of really operating this place of like, can I, is I, do I really do this? Do I really move forward with this? Do I see this breakup through? Like what is she saying to him to make him question his decision? What is he saying to her to make her want to. You know, we don't really know. Right. And she's in a 30, you know, a young, early 30 year old woman who. You're not going to change her mind. You know, I, you know, the really.

Caller 2 (10:38)

Hard thing is like I know that, I know she's an adult and also she's smart, amazing. Like I, but at the same time I'm worried because yeah, it is.

Host (10:49)

When I was 28 years old, ish. I was in the relationship that I've talked about briefly. You know, the first time I got engaged where my then girlfriend slash fiance like cheated on me. And that was a difficult experience. But like, yeah, that was, I was honestly probably it was a toxic relationship in the sense that I think that was just a very immature relationship. I think most of our relationship was based off of what the idea of what we thought we looked like. And you know, I don't think we're, that, I don't think we were that compatible in the moment. We, we, I think we liked how we looked or how we sounded. I thought, I thought it was a very superficial relationship. Looking back, I don't think I realized at the time, but I kind of isolated myself from my friends. Like the more they kind of spoke out about like their opinion about the relationship I was in or her or just how I was with her. I distanced myself, you know, and yeah, I, I, I didn't lose friends but like for a period of time I lost touch with friends and that was all me, you know, like, I just didn't want to hear it. I didn't want to deal with them. I kind of got stubborn with my point of view. Eventually, obviously, we break up, broke up and then like things came around and. Or I came around more, more, more than anything kind of got out of my head. But thinking back to that time, especially my friends, I just wasn't that interested in, in hearing it. You know, my friends had no authority over me. You know, I didn't. I guess the, the best way I could say it is like they were just all my peers. It was kind of like in my mind it was like, what do you know what you know, what do you know what you're talking about In a very kind of stubborn, immature way. And I just find, you know, it's like unless she is coming to you directly and like, you know, where you're the person she really like, you know, she knows better, you know, you might. Yeah. Which it doesn't sound like that's the case. There's not much you can do. That being said, you also, you mentioned you don't think she's being a very good friend right now.

Caller 2 (12:58)

No, and I, I did sort of speak to her about this.

Host (13:01)

Okay, How'd that go?

Caller 2 (13:03)

It actually went like I was absolutely terrified beforehand, but it was way better than I expected. But nothing has really changed since then. I think she recognizes it and I think she knows that this has taken a lot of her mental head space. And there are lots of things that, because she finds other people's relationships pretty triggering, a lot of her anxiety comes around. She wants commitment for the future and he's like, it's too much pressure type thing. So I think, yeah, there's lots of things that she finds difficult to talk about and she acknowledged that in the call and was like, I'm really sorry and I really do care about you and all of these sorts of things.

Host (13:43)

I mean, yeah, like she's sorry she cares about you, but she doesn't have the emotional capability to kind of give a shit about anyone else's problems but hers right now.

Caller 2 (13:53)

And it's also been like the last two years because I think I would have a lot more grace and patience if it was, you know, like everyone has, everyone gets like a six month rough patch that they can.

Host (14:06)

Yeah, I don't know. It's tough because like when we are, when we are in emotional kind of fight or flight mode and she seems to be in her fight or Flight mode with this relationship, it's just very easy to justify why our feelings are more important than everyone else's around us. And again, I remember, you know, being 28 in that period, and I definitely, like, in the moment, I didn't. I wouldn't have been like, I don't think my. You know, but looking back, yeah, that's how I acted, you know, And I think it's just.

Caller 2 (14:38)

I get it. Yeah, I really get it. And I understand that she doesn't have space for that. I guess it's like, how do I deal with that?

Host (14:48)

You. I think you kind of let it go. The fact that. All right, so, like, here you've painted this picture, right? You have a friend that you care about. All right? For the past two years, she's been a little too pretty, selfish when it comes to prioritizing her feelings above everyone else's around her. And at the end of the day, because she is not getting what her want, what she wants romantically in a relationship, she just is one of those friends who just, like, constantly won't stop talking about her relationship needs or how she's being disappointed when it comes to, like, what she wants. And she's always comparing herself to other people who are happy paying herself as a victim in her head and things like that. You've communicated to her that she hasn't been the best friend. She received that information and acknowledged it, but, like, nothing really changed. And at the end of the day, she's still. Because she's still in this kind of fight or flight mode emotionally. And yet we're at the point where it's like, as you mentioned, it's affecting you emotionally. And, like, now you're thinking about how it's playing a role in your head, and I. That's the part that you can control. You can't control her. Like, you know, she's an adult woman. You've talked to her. Whatever happens with this guy is going to happen. It'll probably not work out. It'll probably take longer than it should for her to get to that point where it won't work out. You're just gonna have to let it play out. And then you will have to decide. Let's assume that, like, eventually things, they move on. When she comes crawling back, so to speak, to Will, you offer her some grace and say, you know, listen, I just. I get it. I know you're going through a hard time, but, like, you really just kind of checked out on me and the rest of us who, you know, I don't know how many you know and I understand that this, this matters to you but like just, it's kind of always been about your feeling, you know and you'll have to decide whether you want to accept like give her grace or not, you know. But this is, this is her, you know, like it's not like my, my friends, you know, being controlled by this guy and she's, how do I help her out? She's like, she, she doesn't, you know, she's making these decisions.

Caller 2 (17:03)

She is. And like I think I definitely will give her grace in that scenario. I think it's just really hard to watch in the interim.

Host (17:11)

Don'.

Caller 2 (17:11)

But I also how just not like.

Host (17:15)

Speak to her do I mean this type of friend, you talk to her like every other day, always. You still like what's like we speak a lot.

Caller 2 (17:21)

She's one of my closest friends.

Host (17:22)

Okay.

Caller 2 (17:23)

Yeah. But she also, it's not like she's talking about her relationship all the time. It's like, I guess it's a sort of selfishness in another way. It's more like she'll always prioritize things with him, I guess to sort of like in my opinion, to try and save the relationship. I don't know if she would see.

Caller 1 (17:42)

It in that way.

Caller 2 (17:44)

So it's not the sort of thing where I can be like, hey, we've talked about this a hundred times. Like can we not. There's other stuff going on.

Host (17:50)

It's more she always is choosing.

Caller 2 (17:52)

She just will never like ask about what's going on with the rest of us. In person she's often a lot better, but she doesn't make herself particularly available. She'll never message just being like, just checking in, how are you doing? Anything like that. And yeah, I think it's also really difficult when I know that she's finding it so hard. But she really struggles to be vulnerable as well. So then what do you mean she.

Host (18:15)

Struggles to be vulnerable?

Caller 2 (18:17)

She won't necessarily really talk it through that much. We only know these things are happening in the big blow ups or when they break up or it's been four or five times quite similar this one I thought was it but apparently not. But yeah, in those times she won't really talk about it. She won't reach out being like I'm really struggling or things like that. So it's quite hard when someone's not being a great friend and you know why, but they're not talking to you about why.

Host (18:46)

Yeah, no, I get it. It's just in the, the simplest way I can try to like articulate this is like, and what's your, what's your relationship status? Like, where are you in other aspects of your life?

Caller 2 (18:58)

I'm married.

Host (18:59)

You're married. Okay, so like romantically you're like settled and everything's like in order and it feels. And you, you were mourning the loss of, or at least a change in this friendship or like, you know, but this is this kind of. Yeah. I just don't know if there's much you can do other than like, like, it's, it's just from my point of view, it is silly that you are letting this affect you emotionally.

Caller 2 (19:21)

Probably is.

Host (19:23)

Silly might be a strong, strong word because I'm not saying like you shouldn't care about like missing your friend or missing how it used to be with your friend and things like that. But like, again, all you can do is hold her accountable or let her be, so to speak. And holding her accountable. Is this more you communicating whatever frustrations you have or distancing yourself a little bit and just you're doing the thing where it's like you're trying to not change anything, Right. You want to continue to have this relationship, stay on whatever trajectory it was always on, and you just wanted to like have her get out of her head and continue things. And that's, you're just, you're not being realistic about that because you're settled, you're married, you have romantically what you want in your life right now, and that's not stressing you out. And I don't agree with maybe how you don't agree with it. I don't agree with it how she is making her life harder than it needs to be by overstressing and like, you know, just not accepting reality. But like, she, this is, this is how she's handling it. Right? Again, you can just tell her, hey, I would just want to hear from you more. Or you could just like accept that that's where she's at and stop continuing to expect the same things from her that you always expected from her. Because that's where you're, that's how, that's the part that's affecting you. It's like you, you kind of stubbornly don't want to acknowledge that, fair or not, whether however she's handling it. My friend is very frustrated that she hasn't found her person despite many of her friends finding her person. She's at an a particular age for women where they get very self conscious about the fact that like, they're single when the rest of their friends are not. She really likes this guy. She thought she was very close. It's all falling apart. It's blowing up in her face, and she's just having a hard time processing that. And she's probably definitely not doing it in the best possible way. But, like, in the middle of all that, you're kind of stubbornly thinking, like, well, that shouldn't change our friendship at all.

Caller 2 (21:39)

Yeah, that's probably fair. But it's also like, there are two parts to it. I think that's like, the selfish part. But then there's the other part that's like, I love her. Like, she's amazing, and I don't want her to be sad, and I want someone for her that makes her, like, so happy. I don't want her to be sad. I don't want her.

Host (21:58)

You can't. I just don't know. I don't know how that. I just don't know any friend who is, like. I don't know, like, even, like a twin sibling, I don't think has that type of influence or power. When we're, like, love drunk and feeling very stubborn about our emotional relationships that we let people, like, change our minds, you know, like, sometimes we just have to have things blow up in our face and we have to hit rock bottom, and we have to.

Caller 2 (22:24)

It just sucks.

Host (22:25)

But you. You can keep telling, like, I mean, listen, by all means, like, this is your friend. Tell her exactly how you feel. But clear, you know what I'm saying? You have. You're having a hard time doing that because, you know, you know, she probably won't receive it. And there it's a very, like, you know, it's a very fine line between saying, like, I just think this isn't your guy. You should definitely break up, and you're wasting your time and you guys are making each other miserable, and, like, that's, you know, and. And you need to stop and you want to, like, grab her by the shoulders and kind of shake her and just tell her to, like, you deserve better and you can find better. But, you know, you know her and you, like, as well as she's your best friend, you're very afraid to, like, communicate some of these things to her, which I totally get, because, like, it's very hard to get through to someone in these moments now.

Caller 2 (23:10)

You don't want to push someone away as well when they probably need, like, more support. Which is the other thing that I've been kind of being, like, trying to Strike the balance between being honest in case there's things that she's just not seeing, and being really supportive so she feels empowered.

Host (23:29)

At any point in your life, have you been her?

Caller 2 (23:32)

Not quite to that extent, but yeah, like, a little bit. Which I also thought is, like, maybe why I find it so triggering, to use a better word, where I'm like, I know that there's better out there now from having that, like, not so good, like, pretty toxic, arguing all the time relationship. And I just don't want that for her. So I think, yeah. And also, if someone at the time had said something to me, I don't know, no one did, so I don't know how I would receive it.

Host (23:58)

Probably not.

Caller 1 (24:00)

Probably not.

Caller 2 (24:01)

Well, no, but, like, if all my friends and family were saying that, I like to think that I'd be like, I trust you guys, but maybe I wouldn't.

Host (24:11)

Yeah, it's hard to say. I think usually we're not as open to. It's tricky when it comes to romantic love because so much about romantic love in our head is about, like, fighting for your love and fighting for your person. And like. And so anything or anyone, even if it's a friend that is criticizing or attacking your relationship, you get just very defensive. Right. And almost like, in an honorable sort of way, like, don't talk about, I can talk about my man. You can't talk about my man. You know, like, I think it's this, like, you got to strike that balance between letting her do her thing and just saying the speaking your piece, which is, it breaks my heart to see this relationship consume so much of your emotional energy. And I've already communicated this to you, but obviously, like, I get why in. In some ways I understand the reasons, but obviously it has created a distance between me and you and some of the other friends. And that just makes us sad. And it makes us sad because, like, we're, you know, we're really sorry to, you know, this isn't working out for you, but we also think you deserve better. Like, we can see it from an outsider's point of view. And I know you. You can't see it, but, like, this is how we see it. And. And if she doesn't want to listen, you just have to say, I understand, but, you know, and we'll always be here for you, but you kind of have to. That's the part where you have to let go, where you can't. You can't move forward in your mind, kind of almost doing the same thing. She's Doing which is like, be frustrated with the situation and ask yourself the why Questions to answers you kind of already know, like, why is she doing this? Why won't she just see it? You know, why can't she just like, move on and things like that? And then, and then you ruminate in your head about the, like, the, the friendship. And then it just stresses you out because you're like, you're telling yourself, well, you're like, I need to figure this out. I need to like, try to. How do I help my friend? And you kind of just stay in that emotional state of mind. And that's the part where like, that's all you can do is to say, like is. As much as this sucks, this isn't without precedent. This is a very common thing for people and friendships of all kinds to deal with these types of stuff. Romantic relationships often come in between friendships, especially temporarily. But you just have to be there for your friend if and when she does come around and you know, and if she ends up getting what she wants with this guy and it just always kind of is a little volatile, you still like, will be her friend, her friend. But you do have to accept that for the time being, this friendship is going to be a little bit different than it was because then otherwise you're, you know, if you don't accept that, then you, that's when you become stressed and angry and, and, and feel helpless and anxious. And then when you are around your friend, whatever moments she is, whatever moments she will find to be like emotional, mature or just be present, you might ruin those moments in a sense, you know, like, because you're frustrated. Yeah. You know, it's like maybe she's having a good day with her relationship and she's like ready to enjoy her friends. But you're like, you, you have some built up resentment and frustration and so you're a little edgy when you hang out with her. You know, it's just like, you can do that. But like, that's the part of, like, that's the part where Grace comes in and just saying, I understand why. I don't like why she's. I don't like the way she's handling it. I understand the position she's in. I wish she would listen to reason, but she's just not going to right now. So all I can do is just from time to time find my moments of holding her accountable by like, just very gracefully just, just trying to push her in the direction I think is best for her. But if she doesn't want to listen. I just have to let her play things out. I can't fix her. I. You know, you're not her parent. You're not a therapist. And that's the part where it's just like, you're. There's nothing really you can do about it. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's nothing I can say to you and say, all right, I know exactly what you need to do. If you do this, I promise you, she's going to break up with her boy. You know? Like, I. There's just nothing that you and I can say to her to guarantee that she's going to listen to reason.

Caller 2 (28:43)

This is also probably why it's making me anxious, because there's nothing I can do. Like, I just have to see what happens.

Host (28:49)

Yeah.

Caller 2 (28:50)

And I think, yeah, it's like the thing that stresses me out most is. Which is also. Is probably more linked to our friendship. But, like, in my mind, this is what I keep going to. It's like, okay, if they end up together, like, what does that mean for her, but also for our future? Like, I don't want to hang out with this guy now after everything he's sort of done.

Host (29:13)

Like.

Caller 2 (29:13)

And again, I don't think it's from a place of maliciousness, but it's also. I hate the way he's treated her.

Host (29:19)

I mean, again, I know. I know nothing about this relationship, but my guess is you're only hearing one version, and he has his version with his friends, and there's a good chance all of his friends hate her. You know, maybe, probably, you know, this is her life, and you have to let her live it and roll your eyes at me, you know, I don't know. It's her life, you know, lead just. I know you guys, it's life's. I know life's short, but it's not that short. And things come around, you know, I just. I had a friend. I have a friend after that. So in my early 30s, fast forward a couple years, got into another relationship. I left that relationship, and I was kind of, for the first time in my life, comfortably single. I was like, you know, I was this. In my 20s, I felt like I needed to have a girlfriend. I felt very incomplete without a partner. But in my early 30s, I decided to leave. What I thought was, it was ultimately a really great person and a good relationship, but just it was. Had had its. We had our fights, and I just, I. We. I wanted to leave the relationship. And then my buddy had been notoriously Single. And, you know, he had. And. But he was just, like. When I got single, I felt some jealousy from him, like, some From a competition standpoint where all of a sudden, like, we were both single and he was like the friend who. You'd go to a. We'd go to the bars and all. He was only looking for girls. Like, he was never just, like, having fun, you know, it's like, you show up, it's like, oh, there's no one here. Let's go, bar. I'm like, we just got here. Maybe. Maybe someone will show up. But, like, we're not hunting for girls all night, you know? Well, things just got real contentious between us, and we kind of just stopped talking, you know, I just was, like, sick of his shit, and probably he was sick of mine. I don't know. But, like, for a year and a half, like, there was one, and then I moved to Chicago, and it got so contentious that, like, this is a good friend of mine that, like, we ran into each other at a bar or a club in Chicago, and it was like one of those, like, running into someone in high school you didn't talk to anymore. And it was, like, really awkward. And then, like, I don't know, some more time went around, and we reconnected, and he kind of, like, got. I don't know, got out of his head and stopped being, you know, the person he was acting. And we got back to where we were and, you know, friends. And that. That took, like, a couple. That took a couple years. And that's. That was 10 years ago. You know, that shit happens sometimes with friendships. You know, like when we're younger and we have these friends, especially before we meet our person. Our friends, especially early adulthood, are our kind of romantic partners. They're the people we go to dinners with and movies with, and we talk about our feelings with. And we're vulnerable with even men, too, right? And then. And then when one of those people finds a romantic partner, it almost feels like we lost that kind of. That connection. And so things can get kind of messy in those years, you know, because there's a lot of feelings of, like, she's. I'm sure she's very happy for you, but also very envious of you. And. And just probably some ways, doesn't feel like it's not fair for you to criticize. Criticize her or have notes because you have what you want, and she's just trying to get what you want and, you know, and things like that. But, like, sometimes you just have to let Things play out, and you're just gonna have to be okay with a little bit of change in this relationship and disconnect in the hopes that, like, it'll work itself out, it'll come around. But you kind of stubbornly not allowing this friendship to evolve and. And accept that it's going through a little bit of turmoil doesn't make it better, and it doesn't help you out, because part of me is like, to that end, that friendship I described, I was. I was sick of his. I didn't want to offer him grace. I was like this, you know, whatever. And I was part of the reason why we lost complete touch for that period of time, because I wasn't. I. I. I don't want to offer him any grace or I was done offering him grace. And so I played a role in that and that distance, and maybe it's what it needed. I don't know. But you're part of this friendship too. And, yeah, she is starting it and she is handling it, but, like, you have. You can choose how you handle it too. And your lack of just accepting that there's a part that there's nothing you can do, and you might have to let things play out and. And you might have to reposition your friendship to being like. Like, I'm just gonna be the best friend that I can be to her, given as much as she lets me, and. And then go from there, but demanding that she. Like, I know you're not, but, like, the part of you inside is like, does this. Is like that you're like, this is. And, like, stop ruining our friendship over this stupid guy in this relationship, you know, and that. That's how you're thinking about. And I totally get it. But, like, you know, I just. I just don't think you're putting yourself in her shoes.

Caller 2 (34:25)

Yeah, I think that's probably fair. And I don't. I. Yeah, I don't want the relationship to change. Like, she's a super close friend. She was one of my bridesmaids, like, all of that, and we lived together. We were, like, at uni together. There's been, like, a long. Yeah, long history. And I think also because, yeah, my other friends have got, like, in relationships, and things haven't had to change because, like, their partners are awesome, and I really like them. And it's like, we're all, like, in this new phase together, and maybe.

Host (34:53)

I, trust me, she feels that, you know, and that she feels that.

Caller 2 (34:57)

Which must feel quite rubbish.

Host (34:59)

Yeah. And her position.

Caller 1 (35:01)

She's.

Host (35:01)

She's lacking. You have to give her confidence as much as you can, you know, and that's. If nothing else, despite your frustrations, it may fall on deaf ears, but you have to keep reminding her that she deserves to be happy and she deserves not to feel anxious about these things and definitely not fair. But you know, she, there's a lot of great things available to her because she just, right now she is, she is acting as if she's either gonna make it work with this guy or she is gonna be alone forever. That's how she's operating.

Caller 2 (35:35)

Well, this is what I've said to her. But then she's like, no, I know I would feel fine if like we did break up. It's just. I want it with him. I think.

Host (35:44)

Yeah, yeah. But I mean we, we are very good at lying to ourselves and convincing ourselves of things and those. I think there's a part of her that rationally knows that she will be fine. She doesn't want to be fine without him, you know, So I think that's true. She. She wants him. Doesn't mean it's the best choice. She just, in that, you know, she just wants to do it. You know, like we've all wanted to do things and then we look back be like, why did I want to do that so bad? I don't know. It's like you just, yeah, you just decide that's what you want. But like, yeah, like you just. This is very much. You have to play the long game. Nothing you're gonna say is gonna have some more like eye opening moment for her. It's like chopping wood shavings. Make a pile. Like you're not saying anything to her because it's gonna immediately change her mind. You're. You're planting seeds, you know, you're. You're just reminding her of her worth. You're remind. You know, you're checking in with her because in case she needs to hear it today, you're going to hopefully give her a pick me up. You know, it's not, you're not saying it to her because she doesn't know or no one's ever told her that she's valuable or that she can do better. It's just that reminder, you know, because right now her internal like clock or whatever or voice is, is kind of her. Is telling her to. That you. Her fears are making her think she will be alone. And the rat, her rational brain doesn't pop up in her head very often these days. And you can be that reminder. But like Again, you have to be willing to be that reminder without getting anything immediate in return. And it may feel like it's, you're wasting your breath and it may feel like it's just more of the same that you're doing and not getting anything in return. You know, this is a moment in your friendship where it's not going to feel reciprocal. You know, where most of your friendship, like on any given day, you were always there for each other. This is that moment in that friendship where for a period of time she is being a little selfish and self centered and you have to decide, am I going to look at our friendship as a whole and, and, and just assume and expect that this is a friendship that I'm going to have for much of my life and we'll get through it someday, somehow I don't know when. And maybe someday I will be the selfish one and I'm gonna, I'm gonna call on her to like just deal with my. And hope that she does, you know, and that. And you just have to decide whether you're willing to do that.

Caller 2 (38:15)

Yeah. And I am.

Host (38:17)

Yeah.

Caller 2 (38:17)

Like she's amazing.

Host (38:19)

Yeah.

Caller 2 (38:19)

So I think I need to probably just stop being from myself, like from what I say.

Host (38:24)

Yeah.

Caller 2 (38:25)

And I need to just keep reminding myself that. Yeah, I think I get frustrated because I still have expectations and maybe like lowering those expectations temporarily is going to make me happier in the friendship, make me be a better friend, like hopefully ultimately help her. Yeah.

Host (38:43)

Yeah. It's tough. It's tough. Yeah. I think for the immediate future it's going to feel very one sided where it's going to feel like you're always thinking about what you can do for her and you're going to be doing more outreach, you're going to be doing more, then she's gonna be doing for you. Because there's a part of her that's like, oh, well, she's good. She's got her like she's got someone to do that for her. You know, I think.

Caller 2 (39:07)

Yeah. Which makes sense. I have just like one final question. This has been like so helpful. But if they do get engaged, what do I say?

Host (39:19)

Congratulations, Congrats. Yeah.

Caller 2 (39:21)

But just that, just leave it at that.

Host (39:23)

I mean if she's not asking for your opinion, I don't think you give it, so to speak. Yeah.

Caller 2 (39:28)

But I also don't want to be like, wow, amazing news.

Host (39:31)

I don't, you know, I. Again, she's not, she's not a 16 year old anymore. She's an adult woman.

Caller 2 (39:37)

Yeah.

Host (39:38)

And we, everyone learns different. You just, you can't live her life for her and you're not her parent. You can't tell her what to do. No.

Caller 2 (39:46)

And I was. I don't want to. Yeah, but maybe I do want to.

Host (39:51)

No, listen, I, I am someone who.

Caller 2 (39:54)

I just don't want her to be unhappy.

Host (39:56)

I agree with you. And listen, I am someone who, like, I'm, like, I've always been like, I have 10 siblings, right. And when it comes to, like, I'm the second oldest. I'm the oldest boy overall, we have a very lucky, blessed family with, you know, my parents did a great job raising us all, but, you know, some of my siblings are, you know, make better decisions than others. And I've always prided myself over generally, for the most part, making good decisions for myself. And my parents have always been like, yeah, we don't worry about you because like, we, we, we worry about more other people. And you're maybe one of those people who's like, it's better at making decisions for yourself and you feel that maybe. And so as friends, you want to sometimes share that, you know, wisdom and, but you can't. And I've learned that, right. Like, you know, people call in and like, I've always been the guy who's been good at giving advice and even to my friends. But like, like, if people don't want your advice, you're wasting your breath. And I, I've had to learn that. Right. And you just sometimes have to bite your tongue and it's not your life. Whatever. She decides whether she wants to get engaged to this guy. Maybe she goes all the way to have kids with this guy or get married this guy. And, and then eventually five years from bones in your face, then, well, then, then you will have to deal with. She will survive that and you will. Can still be friends and you're not going to be like, I told you so, but, like, this is her life, you know, and you, you have to decide whether you want to be friends with whoever you want to be friends with, which includes the choices they are going to make for themselves in their life. And there's not much we can do about it, you know. But yeah, like, I just.

Caller 2 (41:33)

Yeah. And it's arrogant to assume that my thinking, even though I think a lot of people are in agreement, is the right answer. Like, and that she wants to hear it.

Host (41:45)

So are they like, doing couples therapy or anything like that?

Caller 2 (41:48)

No, he doesn't want to go.

Host (41:50)

Well, so when it comes to stuff like that, you know, you could just say, like, you know, I'm sure you've listened to me on these shows where it's just like, sometimes asking questions gets through to people better than advice, you know? Well, so like, the question is, like, when she. When, when. If you have a moment to talk to her about this relationship, and she's saying, well, I've asked him to go to therapy, doesn't want to. It's just like, well, then how are things going to change? Because, you know, if he doesn't want to get help and, you know, like, what's going to change? Make her question that. You know, asking questions to get her to answer her own questions sometimes helps people see what you see. It's like when people call in and listen, you know, and we talk. Right. And then a couple weeks later, the episodes will come out. Oftentimes people will, like, listen to themselves, hear their story and then. And hear my advice, and they. They hear it very differently than they heard it when we were. Or they just kind of see how they sounded or. Or things like that. But, like, you kind of have to get her out of that. Like, now you're just telling her what to do, right? Like, it's like the parent child relationship. You're just. I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed. Do this. But, like, ask her questions, get her to think about her thought process. You know, if he's unwilling to, like, go to couples therapy, what is he willing to do to make this right? You know, like, you know, how are you guys going to work through things as things get more difficult? But I do think asking questions rather than, like, offering unsolicited advice will. Goes a long way.

Caller 2 (43:28)

Yeah, I'll definitely bear that in mind.

Host (43:31)

Okay.

Caller 2 (43:31)

But I think this has been, like, so helpful for. I think I've. Yeah, I really. I didn't, like, notice that in myself that I've been trying to keep the friendship exactly as it was. And then being disappointed and nervous when I see it, like, not going that way, and that is on me. Like, that's within my realm of control. So gonna work on that bit.

Host (43:54)

All right. Well, sometimes it's good to just knowing that will go a long way because, like, that's the part that's causing you the anxiety. You know, she'll, you know, no matter what, you can be sad for her. But, like, she, you know, she's. Again, she is an adult. If she doesn't want to learn by listening to her friends, which most people don't, she's just gonna have to learn some way. You know.

Caller 2 (44:14)

Yeah. I just hope it doesn't like, cause her too much pain in the learning.

Host (44:20)

Yeah. Has she had like, has she had boyfriends before?

Caller 2 (44:24)

Yeah.

Host (44:25)

What, what's different about this one?

Caller 2 (44:27)

I don't know. Like, I don't know whether it is the timing or the fact that he's like non committal, which sort of makes her like more nervous and makes her want to have it.

Host (44:38)

So have they ever been like boyfriend and girlfriend or is this like the long. A long situationship?

Caller 2 (44:43)

No, they were like, they were. They've been together the whole time, but over the last two years it's like every few months another kind of like break, semi breakup or him like threatening to break up with her. And I think that also it's like her always feeling like she has to prove herself is like one of the reasons that I think she's finding it really hard to let go.

Host (45:03)

Well, maybe she needs to let go. I mean, he's sounding like a guy who maybe blossomed late, got his first girlfriend, or maybe he was just a boy in his early 20s, but like at the end of the day, doesn't want to settle down right now. Just like isn't sure if he wants this to be it. I mean, that's what it sounds like. And if that's the case, then she needs to let him go and see if he regrets it. Hanging around and trying to convince him to is not the way.

Caller 1 (45:33)

No.

Caller 2 (45:33)

And I think that's why it's so hard, because I think it's confidence crushing always having to persuade someone to be in love with you, which is what's so difficult to watch. But again, it is.

Host (45:44)

But that's not the way to do it. The way to do it is to show them that there's a line out the door of people waiting to fall in love with her. And the moment he think I should.

Caller 2 (45:58)

Find her some, well, she has to.

Host (46:00)

Be willing, but she has to. She has to get sick of him treating her like an option and she has to face the hard truth that like, it has nothing really to do with like her per se. But yeah, that at the end of the day, I'm sure he's trying to say it in a million different ways. It doesn't sound like the truth, which is like, I'm just not sure if you're the person I want to only fuck for the rest of, of my life. And I'm just not sure if I'm ready to like, just like, just be it. And I just like, I don't know what else is out there. And, like, I'm on Instagram and I'm all the apps. And he just sees a bunch of potential options and just honestly wonders if he could do better. And she needs to see that as a reality. Not because. And not. Not so that it bruises her ego to the point where she's like, oh, I'm worthless, but this, like, fuck this guy. Like, I. I know I'm a catch, you know, and I know that, like.

Caller 2 (46:52)

And she is.

Host (46:53)

Yeah. And I know that, like, I'm, like, it. I'm gonna, like, be my best self. I'm gonna stop wasting all this energy on this guy and whatever. You know, whether it's, like, hitting the gym or, like, just crushing life at work or just being a hot commodity where, like, you just. You know, you focus on yourself and you focus on, like, just whatever it is you do, and. And then people, you know, you get out there, you start dating, and you stop that. That will change his mind. You know, if. If there. If there was gonna reason to get this guy to whip. Whip him into shape, it would be, like, the fear of losing her. He's not afraid of losing her.

Caller 2 (47:28)

Yeah, I think he's not. But then I can't think like this. I need to just think, like, leave them to it.

Host (47:34)

Yeah. Unless she asks. You know, if she asks, then you can tell her.

Caller 2 (47:38)

Yeah, I'm just gonna keep being super supportive. Low expectations in the other direction.

Host (47:45)

I mean, those questions in the. In the interim, like, if, you know, because they are broken up, you can say to her, it's like, you know, if you have a window. If she gives you any kind of window, just be like, you know, you are on. You know, she knows that you follow her, and maybe you can be a little nosy. It's like, you guys. Girlfriends follow each other, and you can be.

Caller 2 (48:03)

Listen, I haven't.

Host (48:04)

Yeah.

Caller 2 (48:04)

I haven't said yeah. I haven't been like, hey, I see you're there, like, two nights or three nights a week still, like, yeah, I would.

Host (48:11)

You know, I would make. Maybe make a joke being, like, you would get him to realize his foolishness by spending the night at some other guy's place. I. I mean, it's like, it's. I do find it amazing. Like, it's like, I think I. I'll never forget my very first relationship. It was one of our many breakups, and I was heartbroken, and I was just like, yeah, I was like your friend, where it was just like, I had to do all these things to win her back. And this woman I worked with, I don't know, she was probably like five or six years older than me. She was like, in her. Probably late. I was in my early twent was like, in her late 20s, early 30s. And she was like, go date other women. Go other girls. And I was like, you're crazy. Like, how is that gonna. Like, I was so afraid to do that, but she was so right, you know, like, and especially men. Like, men are so afraid of you. Like, you finding someone better than them, but when. When they. When they feel like they have all the control or power. And even with my first girlfriend, as soon as I ever. I would always. I was always like, such a. Like a worthless sack of. And anytime I finally had to put my foot down, she would flip a switch and come running back. She just has to find that strength.

Caller 2 (49:20)

No, but I also don't want. I don't want him to realize, like, I just want them to break up.

Host (49:26)

Well.

Caller 2 (49:28)

But I will. If she asks for that advice, I can now give it.

Host (49:32)

Yeah, you're gonna have to just let her play it out, you know?

Caller 2 (49:35)

Yeah, no, I know.

Host (49:37)

You just gotta keep your. All your job is to try to make her feel as confident as possible.

Caller 2 (49:44)

And I think I can do that. I think.

Caller 1 (49:47)

Yeah.

Caller 2 (49:47)

I think what I've struggled with is, like, my own expectations on the friendship. And, yeah, it also does, like, really suck to see Hasa, but I've got to just come to the realization that, like, maybe that's the only way. Like, I can't protect her.

Host (50:01)

Yeah, you definitely can't.

Caller 2 (50:03)

Okay.

Host (50:04)

All right. Sorry.

Caller 2 (50:06)

Thank you. No, that was. I wish there was, like, some amazing thing I could do just to fix this all, but I think I kind of knew that was the answer all along.

Host (50:14)

All right, well, hopefully it was helpful.

Caller 2 (50:16)

No, it was really helpful. Really helpful. Thank you so much.

Host (50:18)

All right, well, take care. I appreciate the call.

Caller 2 (50:21)

Thanks.

Host (50:22)

And please keep us updated. What happens, you know, in the future.

Caller 2 (50:26)

Yeah, I will. I'll let you know.

Host (50:28)

All right, take care.

Caller 2 (50:29)

Thanks. Bye.

Host (50:30)

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Caller 3 (53:43)

Hi, I'm Katie and I'm 36 and I regret moving for love.

Host (53:47)

Okay, tell me why you moved and who'd you move for?

Caller 3 (53:50)

I moved for my husband.

Host (53:51)

Okay.

Caller 3 (53:52)

We met online. Somehow the algorithm matched us. We don't know how, but we lived. I lived halfway across the country from hem. I'm from the Midwest and he lives in the Northeast. I moved in order to be with him and I don't regret being with him because he's amazing. But the move I'm really struggling with and I don't quite know how to.

Caller 1 (54:07)

Talk to him about it.

Host (54:08)

Did you move prior to you getting married or like, how long ago did you move? So you, like, you met obviously, like, you know, Natalie and I, for example, we met online, so to speak. She lived in Savannah. And then when we actually started dating, I shipped her over to la. What did it look like for you?

Caller 3 (54:26)

So we met in August of. We matched online in August or May of 2023. We met in August, we got engaged in July of 2024. I moved August of 2024, and we got married in September of 2024. So it was kind of quick.

Host (54:38)

Okay, how long have you lived where you live now?

Caller 3 (54:41)

Almost a year. It'll be a year later this month.

Host (54:43)

Okay, well, listen, this guy is your husband, right? So, you know, I would, I would approach this just if they're. I weigh you in your shoes differently than say, if this was a boyfriend that you moved for. Who does. Who what for a living. You know, practically speaking. Like, why, other than like preferences, like, why objectively do you guys live there and what would have to change?

Caller 3 (55:08)

Never wanted to move.

Host (55:09)

What's that?

Caller 3 (55:11)

I never, I never wanted to move.

Host (55:12)

No, I get.

Caller 3 (55:13)

Yeah, I moved because he and I both work in the same field. We work in the art and there's a lot more opportunity for us to do our job where he lives versus where I lived. And so I've gotten a lot more job opportunities here, which is great. And the other problem is that I have a much wider range of experience, so I can always go get an office job or something. But he's only ever done what we do for a living. And so me moving here, I found more opportunities, and he has a great job. We move back to where I live, he probably would not be able to do his job, and I don't really know what we would do for him for work.

Host (55:49)

Okay, well, that makes it more difficult, I would say, just in general, it takes much longer than a year to really make any place. To really give any new place a chance. I'm not saying you're ever going to like it any more than you do today. I can't guarantee you that. But I do know that it takes longer than a year for a place to start feeling like home, so to speak. Week right now, it's been less than a year. And all you can tell yourself is, I didn't want to do this in the first place. I still don't want to do it now. And as I expected, this place is not home. Yeah. So there. There. There is that. Now you mentioned, like, you're having a hard time bringing it up to him. One, he's your husband, so you guys should be able to talk about these things, right? If nothing else, you should feel like it's. If, you know, you guys are always talking through things. Talking through. It might not change. Change anything. But at least, I mean, I guess. Wouldn't. Let me ask you this. Wouldn't it feel better if you were able to find the words to communicate this with him? Hopefully not, like, in a harsh word like, you, I doubt. You know, you probably don't want to say, like, I. I love you, but I hate my life here. Like, there's that. That. That might come across a bit strong to him and make him feel like he doesn't know what to do. It's like, well, I want to make my w. Like, but maybe you communicated since, like, I am struggling. I've been struggling with the move. It's like, I haven't. It's. It still doesn't feel like home. And I guess I don't know what to do, but I just wanted to talk with you about it. And then he was like, all right, well, let's talk about it. But even if you guys sat down and talked and. And realized that, like, you know, just based off of everything in our lives. As much as I may hate to admit it, I guess it just makes the most sense for us to stay here for a period of time. Would that, that, would that be better? Even if nothing changed, knowing that you could talk to your husband about this stuff?

Caller 3 (57:43)

We have talked about it and this is kind of why I'm struggling with how to talk to him about it. Because every time I bring it up, like we both would do anything for the other person. And so when we talk about it and he says, well, we always knew that moving back to your hometown was an option, but I don't want him to feel the way I feel, especially because I don't know what his work situation would look like if we moved. And I don't. I don't know. I just don't want to make him feel the way, way I feel now.

Host (58:07)

What is a life with each other look like? What have, you know, family planning or like, what do you guys want as a married couple for yourselves?

Caller 3 (58:16)

We're not having kids, so it's just us. But part of the ish, like, I am really, really involved with my nephews. They, they live in my hometown as well. And I helped raise them for like 10 years. And so leaving them also was really hard. So that while they're not my kids, they are also a big part of consideration of how I live my life.

Host (58:37)

Okay, that's definitely a challenge. And like career wise, how, how much does your career and his career give him a sense of purpose?

Caller 3 (58:48)

More so for him than me. I always, when I was by myself in my hometown, I always did it as kind of a side gig thing. I always had a corporate job for insurance and to pay the bills. And then I would do this for fun on the side. But this has always been his full time gig. And then when I moved out here, we agreed that I would be able to try and do this full time. And I am. And that part is great. But I'm like, I'm also not making as much as I made in the corporate world, so it's kind of canceling each other out. I'm happier with my work, but I'm also not making as much.

Host (59:17)

Gotcha. But also you could get into the corporate world where you live now and probably make more money if you wanted to.

Caller 3 (59:24)

Yeah, yeah. And he doesn't really, he doesn't have that experience. So that's also what makes it hard because I don't want to uproot him and give him no options where they live.

Host (59:32)

Well, I mean, I think we all need a sense of purpose, right? In life. That's just like a. And I think men in, in general, not always, but men typically will find at least some of that purpose through, like, their career or they're feeling like, a sense to provide for themselves and, and their family, and they want to feel like they can accomplish things they care about. And I think, you know, just as a guy, I know that, like, I'll. Often that affects men and I think women too, but. And so, yeah, that's just something that you think you need to consider because, yeah, it's like you just hate right now where you live. You know, it's not home. Your nephews aren't there. It's just, it's not home. If you move to the Midwest, he might feel the same way. Plus feel like he hates his job, he hates what he's doing. He gets no purpose out of it. And then his only purpose, and not that you're not enough, but, like, you know, is his wife. And it's just like, he just, just. You don't want to hate. You don't want him to hate every aspect of his life but you. And now you're kind of similar in the same, you know, but, like, you're just gonna have to find some balance. I, I, I just go back to. Maybe you might need to give this place a little bit more of a chance than you have. And I'm not saying you should, but I just, I do know that it takes more than a year to make a new place work for you. And knowing that you came into this new place with your guard up, so to speak, already with a little bit of, like, I don't know if I'm gonna, Like, this is, doesn't help the situation. Right. And it may never feel like home or the Midwest, but it probably could feel better than it feels now, you know, because I'm getting the sense from you that, like, your current job, while it's cool, you've really downplayed, it's like, it's, it's fine. Like, I like it. Yeah, it's the career, it's, it's the field I'm working in, the field I went to school for. But, you know, I don't know, it's like, it's more like a hobby. And honestly, I'm, I liked making more money before. And maybe you enjoyed the social aspect of it. I don't know, maybe you made friends at work and stuff like that where, I don't know, maybe this job now doesn't allow for as much socialization. I don't know, maybe since, like, I'm giving, I'm getting from you that, like, you don't really care about your current job all that much one way or the other, and that there's pros and cons to staying in this field, and there's pros and cons to, like, getting back to the, what you call, like, a corporate job. Maybe that's something you consider because then maybe you make some friends and, you know, like, you have to figure out a way to make this new place feel like home. And that includes more than just, like, living with your husband in his city. You know, you have to try to make it your city and you have to make friends and you have to connect with the community for it to feel like home. Because otherwise you're just always going to feel like you're living in a city that's not your home, you know, and that's.

Caller 3 (62:27)

That's what's hard. The field that I'm in, it's a contract type of situation. So I'll do a contract for a few weeks and then it's up and I go somewhere else. So it does make it harder to make friends, whereas where he is, he's just steady and consistent and always there. So that does make sense.

Host (62:43)

Yeah. Because right now you're just all you're doing. You've very much moved for your husband, for love. Like I said before, you, you moved. Not being excited about it was just for love. So you weren't, you know, and then you've done really nothing, you know, other than, like, moving for your husband. Your mindset has always been just proving to yourself why you knew you wouldn't like it.

Caller 3 (63:05)

Kind of. I think it's like change is just. It's so hard for me that it's almost debilitating. And so I feel like I've kind of spent my first few months here just in, like, fight or flight mode and just trying to get through it without panicking or melting down. And so now that I feel more comfy, I think that's why my brain is finally starting to be like, maybe.

Caller 1 (63:22)

We don't like it here, maybe.

Host (63:24)

But, like, I. I guess what I'm saying, it's like there's a bit of a mindset there. Anxiousness or anxiety comes from worrying. I mean, again, I'm not a psychologist, so, like, don't quote me on this stuff. But like, like, it's just. You're worrying about the future, the unknown, and with Some preconceived notions of how you think or how you tell yourself you know, how things are going to play out. And then you're worrying about those things manifesting itself. You know, like you went into this move with a bit of a like this is gonna suck mentality. Like you martyred yourself for love. Or it's just like, well I'll do it for him because I love him. But you know, like, like I wonder if just like changing your perspective of just like, you know what, Like I don't know, like start pointing out things about your into yourself. Or it's just like what do I like about this place? Because right now I'm guessing overall it's just been like I. You just tell yourself you don't like. There's nothing you like about you. Your. Your mindset is just to remind yourself what this place doesn't offer you. Doesn't offer. My nephews doesn't have my family, my favorite restaurants, my, like my just my. My comforts. Like I'm always away from this. Them. And you haven't tried to find those, you haven't tried to replace those. I mean you'll never replace your nephews, but like you haven't tried to replace what you loved about the old place you lived in with new little things of like your favorite spots and you know, and then making friends. Like if you haven't made friends yet, like I can understand why this place doesn't feel like home. You know, because if your hus. Your husband has his life outside of you and when he's at work and if he's with his friends, how do you feel connected to this place? You don't right now. So it just it then you spend all that time missing the old place. I think you could probably give this place more of a shot than you have. You may still end up hating it. I don't know. You know, but I'm getting from you that like you've. And like listen, we. It's 2025. It's a pretty quick flight from the Midwest to the east coast. And maybe the money you made switching careers into a corporate job, if nothing else, pays for flights back and forth to spend more time with your nephews to get home more often. And maybe you're spending 300 bucks a month to, to fly back home for a long weekend every month. You know, it's like a two hour flight from the east coast to the Midwest. Anywhere in the Midwest. You know, there, there are other ways to try to have your cake. You need it too. But he is your husband. And, you know, these are the. These are the difficulties, choices that, like, you know, life will bring you when it comes to, like, making a life work with someone else. And relationships are about compromise. You do need to feel like he's. What compromises. You're making a big compromise for him and for the relationship. It's not a tit for tat situation, but you need to feel like he does recognize that and. And appreciates that and. And wants to whatever he can do to help you with that struggle or, you know, so it's definitely a balance and just continue to talk about that, you know, if that makes sense. It's just. Yeah, because the, the, you know, and he's so supportive.

Caller 3 (66:33)

But that's kind of why I wanted to talk to, like, an outside party, because every time I talk to him, he's just. He's so supportive. And I don't want to, like I said, make him feel the way I'm feeling or put him in the position I'm in. And I really just wanted someone kind of outside of the situation to take a look at it and give me advice because he's. He's so supportive. He's so wonderful.

Host (66:52)

That's awesome. And like, that's. That's great that you guys have that. I just, you know, just hearing you talk, it sounds like deep down, you know, or. Or worry that if you. If you guys were to move to the Midwest and you feel like you ultimately, it sounds like, you know, that if you really needed him to do that, he would probably do that. But if he did that, he might really struggle with finding purpose outside of the relationship, with his career, and he might really hate any other type of job. And like, leaving what in some ways feels like maybe a dream job for him would be very difficult for him. And yeah, that is the challenge, because you guys are a team. You're married, you know, and you guys have to make decisions, what's best for the team. And that sometimes includes moving. But it's tough, I think, in the short, short term, if you're not gonna play that card and get him to move. I think you could do yourself a favor to try to stop telling yourself and pointing out all the things in your head, the things you don't like, you know, because when we go down those rabbit holes of, like, being negative about something, we're just. We're always just looking for ways to confirm that point of view. Challenge yourself to stop confirming what you already know, which is like, if you. If you had it your way, if you could only change one thing and not change anything else, you would just relocate you. You two to the Midwest and some, by some miracle, keep his job and his friends. But you could be home. But that. That's not possible. So in the meantime, find your moments, figure out whether this is the job you really want. You know, maybe more money and more friends, and then maybe you can still do this field on the side as a hobby or do it, like, support your husband. And maybe you can scratch that itch by, like, just, you know, supporting him in his field or being the person he always goes to for advice or, like, counsel. Because you. You do have experience in the shared field, and you can scratch that itch that way. But in the meantime, you're working a job that you enjoy just as much, but you make more money. And it's a little. There's a little bit more a social element to it where you. You slowly start making friends, and then you start making this place home. You. You gotta. You gotta plant some roots here. You, you know, if you want a metaphor, it's just like, you have, like, this flower bed that you haven't really planted in the ground. It's just like it's in a pot, right? So, like, you've brought. You brought a flower when you moved. You brought a bunch of flowers in pots, and you haven't replanted them into the soil where they're still in pots. So, like, that. That's where you are mentally, like, you're still, like, I don't know. I'm not ready to, like, plant the. My roots in here. I'm just. I'm gonna stay in the pot. And you're like, well, you know, there's not enough dirt. I'm not getting all the nutrients I could if I was, but, you know, but like, this sucks. And I think you have to get in there, plant your feet, you know, so to speak, and. And really give it a shot because you're still. You're still in the pot.

Caller 3 (69:48)

No, I think you're. I think you're really right. And this is what I wanted to hear before I pulled the we need to move card, because I want to work on myself first. So I appreciate you saying that.

Host (69:57)

Okay. Yeah. And I think it's less working on yourself. It's just your perspective about this situation.

Caller 1 (70:03)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Host (70:04)

It definitely takes more than a year. Yeah. I remember when I first moved to la and I was like, I don't know, like, it's a nice weather, but, like, I don't know, like, this place is weird. And, you know, it's. It's just home is home, you know, it's just. It's. It's tough to change those things. So. Yeah, give it a shot. What are some extracurricular activities you and your husband can do together that are outside of you guys working and sitting at home?

Caller 3 (70:30)

Yeah, we. We do try and do a lot of stuff. We'll go to, like, farmers markets on the weekend, or we'll take little day trips into the. The nearby city. So when we're together, it is great. But I think you're right that when.

Host (70:42)

I mean. Yeah, you guys need to figure out how to do things that are with other people because you guys go into a farmer market as a couple, and Nelly and I do that all the time. It's still far. I bet farmer markets in the east coast feel a lot like farmer markets in the Midwest, but you're still, like, holding hands and picking out flowers and oranges, and then you go home and it's like, you're not. It doesn't really. It doesn't make that place unique. You need to connect with this new place somehow that is unique to that place.

Caller 3 (71:10)

Yeah, we've. We've done some exploring, but I think I need to kind of do more of it on my own, so I make my own connection instead of just with him or through him.

Host (71:18)

Even favorite coffee shop, like. Like places to go. Just, like, little things that you like about this place so that when you. When you go home and visit home, you can't wait to come back to, like, get that coffee that home doesn't have or that favorite meal at a restaurant that, like, it's just. No. No place in the Midwest makes it the same way. Or this spot at the park that you really enjoy just going to whatever where you live now that just. They don't have. You know, it's like you gotta find those little things or the friend that you really connect with that feels like, oh, I'm really glad I found you, and you live here and not there and whatever it is.

Caller 3 (71:55)

No, that makes sense.

Host (71:56)

Cool. All right, well, hopefully this was helpful.

Caller 1 (71:59)

Awesome.

Caller 3 (71:59)

Thank you.

Host (72:00)

All right, well, we'd love an update as whatever you decide to do in the future, if. If this was helpful or if. If. If you're able to change your perspective, we'd love an update.

Caller 3 (72:08)

Okay. Yeah, I'm gonna work on it. Thank you so much.

Host (72:10)

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Host (75:41)

How's it going?

Caller 1 (75:42)

So I've been wondering if the guy that I've been texting just doesn't like texting or just doesn't like me.

Host (75:47)

Okay, tell me about the this communication and this guy.

Caller 1 (75:49)

So basically we met on Hinge last summer, went on a couple dates.

Host (75:54)

Okay.

Caller 1 (75:55)

We were both very busy and I don't, I wouldn't say I'm the best texter I know.

Caller 2 (75:59)

Don't.

Caller 1 (75:59)

I don't prioritize that like hourly. You know, it's like something that is not really on the back of my mind like too much. So we didn't really talk a whole lot either. But we did see each other. We had three good dates. Ultimately, I think like just with being busy on both ends, you know, he had grad school, I had, you know, work. And honestly I really wasn't sure about the connection. So I kind of just prioritized more hanging out with my Friends. We ultimately ended things last summer just because, you know, communication and we both kind of weren't really even speaking to each other.

Host (76:29)

And so that just kind of, like, fade away. Or did, like, one person say, hey, I'm just not sure if this is working? And the other person was like, cool.

Caller 1 (76:37)

I said, hey. I don't think. Because he reached out after. Because I don't think we had spoken at that point for, like, two weeks. And I was like, I don't even know what. What we're doing anymore. Like, are we still talking?

Host (76:45)

And then he reached out and he's like, hey, so, like, what's going on? And you were just like, honestly, I'm just. Life's busy. You're cool. But, like, I just don't. I don't. I don't know if there's a there. There.

Caller 1 (76:54)

Exactly that. Yeah.

Host (76:55)

Okay.

Caller 1 (76:56)

Exactly that. And selfishly, I will say, like, I don't know how I was feeling about things, but I. It was kind of like a way out, I guess, because he was cool and I. I was open to getting to know him, but I just wasn't sure if I was ready to, like, be more exclusive. Anyways, so we ended, and then in June, he reached out to me again, and we had not spoken all year. I'm very much someone that, like, when I end things with someone, I just, you know, there's no back and forth after that. Anyways, in June, he reached out to me and he said that he finished grad school and he was open to going on more dates if I was, you know, he. He re. Offered dinner and mentioned, oh, like, you're someone I really got along with and saw myself, you know, potentially growing into more of something with. So I honestly didn't know how to take it. I did enjoy hanging out with him. Like, dating is a little tough sometimes, and he was someone that I think I got on with and had a lot in common with.

Host (77:48)

With.

Caller 1 (77:48)

But ultimately, I did decide to give him another chance again. We went on, like, three dates. They all were. Went super well.

Host (77:54)

But he. He's the one who, like, reconnected with you?

Caller 1 (77:58)

He's the one that reached out? Yes. Yeah, he reached out, and then the dates went super well. It kind of felt like we kind of picked up where we left off at this point.

Host (78:06)

Have you guys hooked up yet?

Caller 1 (78:08)

No. No, but that is interesting. You say that third date. Kind of. There was chance for it, but I didn't allow it.

Host (78:14)

Okay.

Caller 1 (78:16)

I just wasn't. I don't do that when I'm actually, like, interested in someone.

Host (78:19)

Sure.

Caller 1 (78:20)

So, yeah, we went on vacation for 4th of July. Both went on. This is when I actually reached out to you guys. We both went out of town separately.

Host (78:27)

You guys went. You guys both did your own thing separately.

Caller 1 (78:30)

Yeah, separately. And then he just. I didn't hear from him, which I didn't think was super uncommon because, you know, he's with his family, probably is not worried about texting someone. I thought the same. Like, I think we could just do our own thing, but just reconnect when we get back. And then once we got back, he did reach out again, but I had. I had. Like, he didn't talk to me at all. Like, we didn't get to that point of, like, letting him know that I was gonna be busy for the next, like, three weekends in July. So we just ended up not seeing each other. But the communication just got super choppy after that. I'm not. Honestly, after the third date, I didn't notice a little bit of a switch, rich in energy, but I didn't want to think too much of it. You know, it was a third date, so I didn't want to read too much into anything.

Host (79:14)

Have you guys kissed? Have you done anything?

Caller 1 (79:17)

Yeah, we kissed. That was it? Just kissing? No other physical intimacy.

Host (79:22)

Okay. And then you felt like a switch up. But like, he reached out after your guys trip and then like, where are things now?

Caller 1 (79:32)

Where things are now. So. So he reached out to the trip, but then I let him know. He asked if I wanted to do something. I said, I'm busy the next two weekends when I get back. Or I even offered maybe sometime during the week if I have time because I commute for work. So my weeks are pretty busy. My weekdays, so weekends are more so the time I use to hang out with friends or a date or something. So once he found out I was busy, I don't know if that switched something for him because he just. The energy, like, completely shifted. Like his texting got a lot less, you know, he. He just wouldn't respond to me honestly, if. Sorry to repeat myself, but yeah. And then we didn't really speak much over the next, like, three weeks. Like here and there a little bit. And then when I was my last, like, vacation, like I think like a week and a half ago, he was like, set up on my Instagram story and was like, oh, like, I like your dress or something. Something dumb. And. And I obviously was like, oh, thank you. And he said, like, when are you back? I told him I'm back Now, super tired, whatever. I was just making conversation at that point, and he. This was on Instagram, by the way, not even texting. And then he was like, well, let me know when you're back. And I'm like, I'm not one to chase the guy. Like, I really am not, especially this early on.

Host (80:55)

Like, I feel like, well, yeah, but I guess. But what I'm not really hearing from you when I'm listening to your story. I'm trying to put myself in his shoes a little bit. Like, how would I perceive your communication? First of all, you kind of already rejected him way back.

Caller 1 (81:11)

Right, Right.

Host (81:12)

And then it was him who reached out to you. Right. And it sounds like what you're saying is like, you. You guys had some nice time together, but, like, you've kind of kept it casual. And he's kind of kept it casual too. What I'm hearing, like, I'm not even sure how you feel about this guy, but all I know is that, like, regardless of how you feel about him, taking everything into account, from the time in which you first started hanging out with this guy, he has gone into your head a little bit just because he. He hasn't been as predictable as you would hope. And I'm not even sure if he. If he would text you in a way that you would want or if. If he communicated to you in a way that met your expectations. I don't know how you would feel about him. I don't know if you know how you would feel about him, but he lacks the consistent communication enough to at least make you go, well, what does he like to do?

Caller 1 (82:15)

Me? Yeah. Yeah, I think for sure. I. I mean, I will say, like, when we first. After the first, like, couple dates, like, has he. I. This is not necessary for me. I don't think, like, when texting, you have to, like, he would text me and be like, oh, hope your week's going well. Like, can't wait to see you Friday. Like, when we had, like, plans. Yeah. And like, obviously, like, I don't need him to do that every week. Like, that's just obvious. It was nice of.

Host (82:37)

What did you say in response to those messages?

Caller 1 (82:40)

I reciprocated. I really was get enjoying getting to know him. I felt like, like, I mean, I didn't want to get too much into the weeds, but after we ended, like, I sometimes thought about him and wondered, like, I don't know if, like, that was just a me thing, being kind of like, avoidant in the terms of, like, oh, like, I don't know if I'm ready to, like, for the commitment or, you know, so sometimes I did think about him when we were away, and so I did reciprocate when he was texting like that. And then, you know, we just kind of started getting busy. And that's when I noticed the communication started getting more inconsistent, especially after a third date. Like I said, like, there was a chance for intimacy, and I didn't. I, like, stopped it, I guess. And he. After that, like, the next day after that date, he, like, didn't talk to me at all. I knew he had plans with his friends and stuff, but it was just, like, it made my, like, lights go.

Host (83:28)

Off of, like, oh, what are the chances he could feel.

Caller 1 (83:32)

Rejected?

Host (83:33)

Yeah, just a little.

Caller 1 (83:34)

There's. I mean, there's a huge chance.

Host (83:36)

Like, did you guys talk about that? Like, were you just, like, nah. Or were you just. You know, what did. When you. When you stopped the physical intimacy from going any further, like, how did you communicate that? Was it like, hey, I really, really like you, and I really like where this is going, but, like, I. I just. I move a little slower, and, like, I just. I don't want to get physical with you before I know what this is. Or were you just more like, I don't think we should.

Caller 1 (84:00)

I just said, I don't think we should. I don't like to do that, like, so early on when I'm seeing someone that I like.

Host (84:06)

No, so you did say that you, like.

Caller 1 (84:08)

I mean, like, I guess, like I.

Host (84:09)

Said, like, I'm enjoying that last part is. It's really important. I'm curious. Really curious. Did you actually communicate that last part or did you think that part, but only communicated that. I just don't want to.

Caller 1 (84:22)

Okay, let me rephrase when I said it. I said, I don't do that so early on. And since we're still seeing each other and this is new and don't know where this is going. Like, I just don't want to, like, be intimate yet. That's where. So I think I wasn't direct with them.

Host (84:36)

So that. Yeah. If I'm hearing that it's unclear how she feels about me.

Caller 1 (84:41)

Gotcha.

Host (84:42)

Like, okay, like, is that. Is that as her is. Yeah, it's. It might just feel like you again. You've already. You've already turned them down. So, like, it went.

Caller 1 (84:51)

Yeah.

Host (84:52)

What did you mean when you say I don't. I don't. I'm. I don't chase men? Like, what does that mean to you?

Caller 1 (84:57)

I just, like, My, my biggest rule is like, if you're confused, then he doesn't like you. But from what you're saying, it kind of sounds like you think I'm not being direct and making him confused. So it could be a matter of miscommunication.

Host (85:13)

I just think there is definitely when I say or when it's necessary for anyone, your friends, me, people online, to say things like, if, if he wanted to, he would, you know, shit like that. Those are usually communicated to people who like, can't take the hint. You know, it's, it's. You're saying it to the people who are constantly making excuses for the person they've been hanging out with for a period of time. They're stuck in this like, never ending situationship. They're always like talking to our friends about how like, he's a really good guy, but, you know, and your friends are like, you know, well, if he really wanted to hang out with you, he would. You know, like when you've hooked up with a guy a couple times and then he really does go dark on you, but says things like, we should hang out sometime in the future. But like, you're like, when is some time and what does the future mean? And you're just sitting by your phone waiting for him to reach out. And like, and then he does at like 11pm and it's kind of like you get the U up text and things like that. That's when like, you need to say things like, if he wanted to, he would. Like, let's be real here. You know, you're applying that. Yeah, you're applying the. If he wanted to, he would. With someone that you're describing as someone who more than you, has like pursued a relationship, this type of relationship, he's been rejected by you a little bit, followed up with you, has reached out in between dates in ways that a lot of women out there would be. Like, I've never had a guy say things like, I hope you're having a great week. Week. And, and I can't wait to see you. You know, like, those are nice moments and that's awesome that you're taking it slow. But you, you do have to give him something too, you know, like, yeah. And in 2025, I listen, I think it's hard to date out there and I, you know, I think it's difficult to be a guy and date out there these days. I understand there's been a lot of bad actors and I think historically over the years, certainly men and a. In a patriarchal Society have had a lot of advantages that women haven't had. But, like, in 2025, it's just like any good guy who wants to pay attention to the climate out there and wants to listen to women and their frustrations of how men have behaved in the past. It can be confusing, you know, to be like, am I supposed to pros women in public or am I supposed to never talk to them? Because, like, honestly, I'm getting mixed signals from people. You know, do I pursue or do I, like, take a hit? I don't want to be aggressive and creepy. You know, like, we used to watch movies and films and, like, you'd hear stories about, like, I had to ask her 20 times to marry me before she said yes. And, like, in 2025, that version sounds like a stalker.

Caller 1 (88:10)

Right.

Host (88:11)

You know, you're like.

Caller 1 (88:12)

You're right. Yeah.

Host (88:13)

You know, what is romance in 2025? It's like, ask a guy, you're gonna get 2020 divan. And it's like, I don't know, like, am I supposed to pursue it because I don't want a restraining order against me? She told me she didn't want to hang out anymore, so, like, cool. And I'm not, you know, like, obviously this is. I'm speaking in broad generalities, but you're.

Caller 1 (88:36)

Speaking from a guy's perspective, which I need to hear.

Host (88:39)

Yeah. And just. Or just like, assuming. I'm assuming this guy's a decent guy. And if I were. If everything you're telling me me, I would be, like, not an entirely sure. And also kind of remind me, like, when you told me about, like, oh, we both went on trips on 4th of July there. In my single days, there was this girl I really liked. Right. And honestly, like, I mean, it was a. I pursued her for a couple years, to be honest, off and on. You know, I. I met her right before I went on the Bachelorette.

Caller 1 (89:08)

Okay.

Host (89:09)

I met her at the clubs, and I thought she was very attractive. And I hadn't met someone in a long time that I got excited about. And she. She was a bottle service girl. It's funny, because she ended up getting a job in software sales. But at the time, all my buddies made fun of me because they just referred to her as bottle service girl.

Caller 1 (89:29)

Oh, wow, the nicknames.

Host (89:31)

But I. I thought she was very attractive. And. And then she. I met her. I asked her out. Out. And then she, like, put her. Her name in my phone, and I was like. I went home that night being, like, excited, and then I followed up with her to ask her out, and she, like, never went out with me. And then I kept in her. Like, her communication patterns were super weird. And finally I just got so tired of, like, asking her, but she kept. She was like, almost, like, vented. Like, hey, I'm sorry. I just, you know, I just got out of a relationship, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And. And then like two months later, I went on the Bachelor, and then I got back and then she had moved out to California. She. I was living in Chicago, and then I ended up moving to la. And then, like, we ended up after the Bachelor. Like, we met out, we hung out a couple times, and it was kind of awkward and like, nothing really happened. And then, like, a couple. And then we lost touch again, and then we re. Reconnected again. And then finally, like, we actually started dating where we, like, like, you know, got together, we hooked up, and blah, blah, blah. And there was, like, there was a real bond there. And for a moment, I, like, I was like, oh, I think she really likes me. I think I like her. And then I went home for Christmas and New Year's, and then we just, like, lost touch. And I think we were both just kind of, like, not sure how to pursue things. You know, I was in my head because I had tried so hard in the past, and she just, you know, she had her awkward side and her awkward moments, and I had mine too. And we were both kind of being awkward at times, and we were just like. But I think we both kind of liked each other. And ultimately, like, we just. We. We. We never worked out, but this was a person who, like, we kept finding our way back to each other and ultimately just, you know, we. She's happy in life, and I'm. I'm happy in life and whatever. It didn't work out. But my point is, is, like, sometimes two people can like each other and just not communicators. And you're still. You're. You're kind of in your head about, like, does this person like me or not like me? Especially since you had already rejected them once. You might have to be the one who puts themselves out there and say, I've really enjoyed me getting to know you. No pressure. I know, like, in the past. But, like, I. I do like where this is going. And I'm sorry. I like. And I forgot to mention, like, you know, the other night, we had a really nice date, and I. And I kind of stopped things from moving forward. Like, I stopped it because I do like you. And I wanted to see where this is going. And I don't think I really said that to you. And, like, who knows? He. You might. You might put yourself out there, and he might be like, well, listen, he's over it.

Caller 1 (92:12)

Maybe. I don't know.

Host (92:14)

I'm. I'm good, you know, like. But I don't think in 2025, women who have, like, core principles, who generally say, like, I don't. I'm not a cha. I don't chase. I don't. Like, oh, there's a difference between. Between being vulnerable and putting yourself out there and not chasing. And I think you. You know what I'm saying? And I think you're. And you're. You're having a hard time seeing the difference between the two. And I think it's okay for anyone in any dating situation. Heterosexual, you know, gay relationship, you know, lesbians, whatever. Like, sometimes. Sometimes it just requires you to be vulnerable. Put yourself out there and say, hey, I like where this is going. I like you. You know, that's not. That's not you chasing. That's giving someone a green light. That's giving someone permission to also be vulnerable and see if they want to then pursue you and, like, make plans and take the initiative. But, like, men do need to be validated, that men need to be. Men need to receive signals that they're making good decisions, that they. They are. That the. Their efforts are being well received. I think it's awesome. Like, I think it's awesome that you made the, you know, do what you want to do. But as you've heard me say, I think hooking up on the third date with someone you really like complicates things and might.

Caller 1 (93:30)

I think I would have felt worse if it.

Host (93:31)

Sure. And he. And. And you. He might have. He might have confused already having sex with you with being like, I don't know if there's anything to get to know. I just. Men sex up men's perspective when it comes to dating, you know, I think it fucks up women's perspective differently.

Caller 1 (93:48)

Yeah.

Host (93:49)

Either way, while you made the right decision for yourself and probably for the chance of this relationship, it still. You still rejected him. Not that you have anything to apologize for, but, like, it's just knowing that, like, all right, well, just, you know, and I. This is not about, like, oh, fragile male eagle. I don't know. Like, it just. It's just making sure that he just knows that it's not. You're not rejecting him. You're. You're just staying true to yourself, and you're just saying no to, like, getting intimate. It has nothing to do with rejecting him. And I think sometimes it can be very confusing as a guy, but, like, it seems like he likes you or at least there's something there. And I think maybe he is just. It wouldn't surprise me the way you're describing this if he's getting a little tired of pursuing you without, like, really knowing if you're into it.

Caller 1 (94:41)

Yeah, no, I totally hear what you're saying. I mean, I agree. I think, like, both of us have been really poor about communicating, like, vocally, like, how, like, the first date, like, I think we both communicated that. Like, he told me, like, and it was first date, so I'm not. I'm taking it with a grain of salt, essentially. I know I sound so cynical, but, like, I just. I'm a little guarded when I date. But he was just saying, like, I think you're really great. Like, like, we get along really well. And, like, I really see myself, like, being, like, you know, serious with you. He was saying a lot in the first date that I was, like, like, just telling me kind of essentially how he feels like, about pursuing me again. And I reciprocated. I told him I also feel, like, the same way and set in the terms of I really enjoy hanging out with you and getting to know you and, like, you're someone that I thought about after we ended and I told him I very much vocalized those things. Things. And he.

Host (95:36)

Is that when you first. When you first kind of popped back in or.

Caller 1 (95:39)

Yes, this was first date, second date. We kind of, like, talked about those things and. But I. I did. I will preface. Maybe this is where the hesitation on his end is coming. I said, like, you know, I don't know exactly, like, how soon we should. Like, when we would get there. But, like, I'm excited to just, like, get to know you right now and, like, just see where we go.

Host (95:56)

Have you ever asked him out?

Caller 1 (95:58)

No. Never asked him out and date.

Host (96:00)

You know, I think that's okay to do.

Caller 1 (96:02)

When do you think that's, like, okay? I guess, like, it doesn't matter. Like, you can always ask someone out on a date. But, like, we were just so new that I was like, okay. Like, when do I take the initiative to, like, plan something? Because he had.

Host (96:13)

You've already been on several dates, so you don't have to be so, like, hey, do you want to go on a date? You could just be like, what are you doing tomorrow? I'd love to see you again.

Caller 1 (96:21)

That's True. This is true. I so, like, I guess, like, where my hesitation is right now, like, when he messaged me on Instagram, we were talking and he said, like, let me know when you're free. I said, I'm free Sunday. And I never got a response. So that's where I'm like, a little bit.

Host (96:36)

Okay, well, yeah, that's a little bit of rejection, right?

Caller 1 (96:40)

Like, I don't know, like, what is going on? Like, on. I don't know. It's like, it's obviously like a conversation can happen.

Host (96:46)

Sunday has passed.

Caller 1 (96:47)

I'm guessing Sunday has passed. It's been, it's about to be a week since Sunday.

Host (96:53)

I don't know. Can you give him a hard time, text them and be like, like, I'm just gonna, you know, I, I do think you can get your answer a lot faster. Faster by just putting yourself out there a little bit more and seeing if he wants to hang out with you or not.

Caller 1 (97:10)

Yeah.

Host (97:11)

Him not responding is on Instagram is a little bit of rejection, and that's definitely a little bit of a wrench for sure. And like, but you know, I, I just remember so many times in dating situations where I was like, I do, I don't know. I don't know how I feel. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And you know, yeah, if I were you, I would at least be like, all you're risking is a little bit of ego embarrassment and a little bit of like, again, there's a huge difference between chasing and putting yourself out there.

Caller 1 (97:43)

Agree.

Host (97:44)

And you're better off just putting yourself out there enough to get whatever answer to get the answer to whatever question you want. Because I don't think you're, you don't seem like that person, person who easily chases and the type of chasing, I think you really need to be mindful not to do is like, when it's so obvious he's not that into you.

Caller 1 (98:02)

That's, yeah, that.

Host (98:03)

I mean, and you keep sitting around hanging and, and trying to make excuses and like, you know, talk to the girlfriends who say things like, well, no, he's just like, yeah, oh my God. He's just like really busy. And like this one time I thought I got, you know, it's like, and they come up with all excuse in the book why you should just sit by your phone and wait. Like, that's not what you're doing.

Caller 1 (98:21)

Well, do you think it should be this complicated so early on? Like.

Host (98:27)

I, I, I think, I think in 2025. We all have a way of over complicating dating, right? You know, like it just, it. We would be a lot more successful in dating if all of us were to stop like waiting for the perfect person. If we're meeting people on the apps, get to the point much faster. You know, get on at least a zoom date or a FaceTime date, have a cup of coffee, figure it the out. When you meet someone you like, just pursue that until it run its course. If you like someone, be exclusive sooner than later, call someone a boyfriend or a girlfriend, be willing to break up. But like now it's, well, I don't know if I like labels and let's just play it out and, and you know, everyone's like, let's not rushing into something turns into like a, a recording process. And it's just while everyone's just like making sure like. Well, I don't, you know, it's like they're treating like calling each other boyfriend and girlfriend is like the new like husband and wife, you know? And I think we all like over complicate things. So does it have to be as complicated? No, but I think we all kind of do that a little bit because, you know, we don't want to put ourselves out there. We don't want to get rejected. We don't. It's like, you know, yeah, totally. And if I were you, I would just text the guy and, and maybe you can give him a hard time. You cannot give him a hard time. You could ignore the fact that he didn't respond to you. Be like, I'm just gonna assume you didn't see my dm, but I like, I want to see you again.

Caller 1 (100:02)

Okay, that's. I can do that.

Host (100:04)

When are you free?

Caller 1 (100:05)

That's.

Host (100:06)

Just be direct. Just be direct. You know, he's either if he likes you, you. He will wanna. He will be like, oh cool. Like, yeah, she wants to hang out I. With this chick. I'm free. And if he doesn't like you, you're gonna get. If he blows that off then. And I would. Then I would shut it down then.

Caller 1 (100:24)

That'S my answer for sure.

Host (100:26)

Yeah. If you're very direct by like, I'd love to see you again winning. You're free and he doesn't. And he just. I don't know. Then if he like comes around again, you can be like, well, I don't know you, you, you know.

Caller 1 (100:38)

Yeah, totally.

Host (100:39)

No, you can be like, hey, I'm not free. Sorry I blew you off. I'm not free. This weekend? How about next weekend? And then you get together next weekend? You know, it's like, okay, cool.

Caller 1 (100:48)

Okay.

Host (100:48)

But you. I mean, I don't know. Let me ask you this. Like, you've hung out with this guy long. You, You, You've. You've hung out with this guy enough to know whether, like, you do you want to, like, date this guy? Like, how many more dates do you need to go on to decide whether this is someone you want to really get to know?

Caller 1 (101:06)

I mean, to be honest, like, after our first three dates, like, I felt like, pretty comfortable with that idea. Like, I, I don't normally let myself get there. Normally. Like, I'm pretty like, one foot in, one foot out. Just in the sense of, like, I don't, like, I don't know how I even feel about this person before. I, like, want to, like, pursue more and like, I did allow myself to kind of pass that part of it, of my head and just be more excited about, about the possibility of us potentially going further and potentially dating. But then since things started getting kind of choppy with, like, our communication and just like, we hadn't seen each other, like, I, I kind of, like, detached from that since.

Host (101:45)

But that's just your ego protecting you from, like, feeling rejected and.

Caller 1 (101:49)

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Host (101:50)

That essentially, I think you need to ask this guy out on a date and go on a date. And then on that date, if you're, if it's feeling good again, if the vibes are vibing and it feels like the other dates you've had bad, maybe you could just be more honest with them. Just feel like, hey, like, I, you know, I, I'm. I'm into this. And if you feel like it's necessary to, like, be like, hey, you know, I know last time, like, just, I, I wasn't rejecting you. I just, I don't. I move, like, physically, I move pretty slow because I like, I do like, I like you. I, I like what I know so far, you know, and say that, you know. Yeah, I, I think when you. Yeah, I think it's, it's a, It's a perfect line for people, especially for men who like. It's like, oh, you like me. You. You know, like, I so far. And at first you hit em with the I like you, and you're like, oh, they like me. And then so far it's like, oh, I have more to prove. You know, it's like, it kind of keeps people in check. But I really, I really like this so far. And like, this is. I've been really enjoying it and like, I know I've been kind of wishy washy before but like, I kind of want to see where this is going and like, I feel like I've been a little confusing and I feel like our communicate and just call it out. Just be like, you know what I'm saying? Like that story I told you in the past, like again, like I couldn't be more thrilled with my life now and, and I haven't like talked to this person a long time, but she sounds like she's also. Could not be more thrilled with her life and I could have been more thrilled for her. But like in an alternate universe, let's say she was someone that like, you know, I'm still. Let's say I was like miserably single at this point in my life. And that was like the way that relationship ended. There was a. Like we didn't really pursue anything. We just, it just stopped. And usually that stuff happens for a reason anyways. But like, you just don't want you like, see it through either. Either have this person reject you or realize that he's not someone you mess with or like compatibility, but don't just like. Well, I'm not sure if he's supposed to reach out, I'm supposed to reach out and like just figure the out. Just put yourself out there. Just ask the questions you want answers to. That's not the same as chasing.

Caller 1 (103:54)

Okay. Yeah, I think that's, that's definitely a good approach. I was like kind of bummed if it was going to end in like him ghosting me because like, I don't, I don't like doing that to people and I, I don't think anyone deserves it. So I think this is a good way for us to at least like have a conversation if anything, and not ghost each other.

Host (104:12)

Yeah. Because it just seems like. Yeah, the way you're describing is just like, I don't know, I'm kind of hanging out with this chick and she's like, I don't know, it's kind of cool when I see her. But like, I don't know. I don't really. Yeah. And like, but I have told him.

Caller 1 (104:24)

Let's not forget I have told him. Maybe not like fully like, listen, he.

Host (104:29)

Might hate you at this point. I don't know. I don't know. But that doesn't really, that's not really the point is like, there's enough there to, from what you're telling me to know that he could be somewhat confused or Just not sure how he feels or just also have his guard up a little bit because you've been hard to read. Like, you strike me as someone who could be a little hard to read in your. Like, because you have a wall up and you are guarded and people who are guarded and who can, like, you know how to enforce a boundary that's difficult for a lot of people to do, especially people your age. And he might see that as confusing.

Caller 1 (105:04)

Totally.

Host (105:05)

And hard to read.

Caller 1 (105:06)

So I have gotten that in the past, so that. That checks. Okay, cool.

Host (105:12)

All right. And listen, a little rejection doesn't, you know, whatever.

Caller 1 (105:16)

It's character building. I just have to, like, lean into it. I don't like to lean into it, but I agree with you. I think it's worth the conversation.

Host (105:24)

I. If he likes you, he will be glad you reached out. And you. He'll be glad that you, like. I remember pursuing this one girl I was telling you about, and honestly, I was just kind of so tired of, like. Like, what the. I don't feel confused by her. Like, I would text her and then I wouldn't hear from her, and then she, like, text me back at 11pm I was like, what? Like, this isn't normal. Like, I don't like, what the fuck? And thank. You know.

Caller 1 (105:48)

Yeah. Is that something that was important to you? Like, when you texted someone, like, having, like, response back, like, within, like, that same day?

Host (105:56)

Yeah, but that's just, like, a pet peeve of mine. But then that's. But my point was, is that, like, I don't know what was going on. She had her own shit and things that was, I'm sure, going on in her head or who knows? I'm just saying, like, this was a person I like enough to pursue a few times. He has shown that with you. Right. Right. You have taken things slow a little bit. You've had your guard up, by your own admission. And he just might be having a hard time reading you. And I'm saying if he likes you, you being a little direct and assertive with, like, wanting to spend time with him. He will. I don't know when this girl, like, did that with me, I was like, great, finally. All right, cool. She, like, you know.

Caller 1 (106:37)

Yeah. Validation. Yeah.

Host (106:40)

I was like. Because otherwise, like, I'm just. Am I just playing myself by, like, is she just enjoying, like, you know, I. I think a lot of guys know what it's like to be with too. You know, just have a girl who. Just chasing a girl that. Who just likes to be chased.

Caller 1 (106:54)

Yeah.

Host (106:54)

You know for sure, and he's just not sure if he wants to, like, you know. Yeah, I think a lot of guys know what that feeling is like, and maybe he just senses that a little bit in you.

Caller 1 (107:06)

I think I do forget the point. The part of, like, validating the man too, sometimes. Not all the time, but.

Host (107:11)

Yeah.

Caller 1 (107:12)

I mean, yeah, when it's. When it's. I feel like when the commute. The feeling's mutual and, like, you guys both have respect for each other. I think there's nothing wrong with validating a man. So thank you for reminding me of that.

Host (107:23)

The let me know when you're like, the Instagram, not text. That's just you reading into it. He probably just, I don't know, saw an Instagram story reply to that and then just. Just think. I don't know. He has now gotten to this. Like, this is like a cat. Like, I don't know. I'm just kind of kind. He. He describes to his buddies. I'm kind of talking to this girl.

Caller 1 (107:42)

Yeah, yeah. That's kind of where we're at, you know? Like, I don't even know what to say, what we're doing at this point, so.

Host (107:48)

Because you're both kind of like, I don't know. So just put two feet in and say it. Like, I don't know.

Caller 1 (107:55)

Someone's got to, I guess.

Host (107:57)

Yeah.

Caller 1 (107:58)

So.

Host (107:58)

All right, cool, Cool.

Caller 1 (108:00)

All right.

Host (108:00)

All right, Let me know. Curious what happens.

Caller 1 (108:03)

Yeah, I'll reach out and let you guys know.

Host (108:05)

All right.

Caller 1 (108:05)

If he responds. If he doesn't, then you have your answer.

Host (108:10)

Sounds good.

Caller 1 (108:10)

All right, thank you.

Host (108:12)

Take care. Thanks for the call.

Caller 3 (108:23)

Foreign.

Host (108:28)

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