E992 Ask Nick - You're Pregnant, Your Rules

Summary

The Viall Files — Episode 992: "Ask Nick - You're Pregnant, Your Rules"

Host: Nick Viall
Date: September 1, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt "Ask Nick" episode, Nick Viall is joined by callers navigating the complexities of modern dating, pregnancy, in-law dynamics, and grief. The episode is rich with real-life scenarios that touch on boundaries, communication, self-worth, and the challenge of balancing one’s own needs with those of others. Nick, with his signature candor and empathy, offers nuanced, sometimes tough-love advice, encouraging self-awareness, intentionality, and giving oneself grace through difficult transitions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dating Patterns & Communication Problems

(Call begins: 01:48)
Caller: Jessica, 32

• Struggle: Jessica describes a pattern of getting attached to men who can't or won't communicate. Her history includes six years with a married man who claimed he was separated, followed by efforts to date younger men via apps.
• Insight: Nick identifies Jessica’s tendency to be “too chill” and non-confrontational in dating, which leads to low expectations and ambiguous situations. He argues for greater intentionality and being honest with oneself.
• Advice Highlights:
  • "Be realistic about people you date and communicate your intentions and expectations, even if they don’t match what you think the other person wants." (13:54)
  • Setting clear boundaries and expectations before getting physical can prevent ambiguity and help avoid disappointment later on.
  • Companionship and non-committal attitudes are common in modern dating, but lacking a plan or standards can lead to repeated disappointment.

Memorable Quote:

"You're being way too chill for your own good... we become so afraid of rejection, of losing something we care about, that we pretend or act so noncommittal." — Nick (13:54)

Timestamps:

• Jessica’s history & pattern: (01:51–05:44)
• Current dating hurdles: (05:44–17:11)
• Nick’s deeper dive/advice: (17:14–38:21)

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2. Pregnancy, Boundaries & The ‘Monster’ Mother-in-Law

(Call begins: 40:51)
Caller: Haley, 26

• Struggle: Haley finds her previously good relationship with her mother-in-law strained after becoming pregnant. Her MIL becomes overbearing: booking photo shoots, sharing news online with little regard for Haley’s privacy or preferences, and inferring the unborn baby’s gender.
• Insight: Nick acknowledges the need for boundaries but encourages context—reminding Haley that overexcited first-time grandparents often lack malice. He sharpens the importance of communication and partnership with her husband to set clear rules.
• Advice Highlights:
  • "You have the right to handle this pregnancy however you want — but you have to communicate that upfront." (49:05)
  • Encourage your husband to advocate for you, especially regarding his side of the family.
  • Use pregnancy as a powerful motivator to prioritize your self-care and minimize stress—saying "no" needs no elaborate excuse.
  • Practicing non-people-pleasing in this stage can set the tone for future family boundaries.

Memorable Quotes:

"You get to do whatever the fuck you want. You got nine months to just blame it on hormones." — Nick (51:01)
"If you don't want to do something, don't do it. Try it out. See how mother-in-law responds. You don't have to make a whole meal out of it." — Nick (61:12)

Timestamps:

• Haley’s backstory & incidents: (41:05–48:32)
• Nick’s advice on teamwork, boundaries: (48:32–65:11)

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3. Grief, Friendship & Feeling Alone in Tragedy

(Call begins: 68:35)
Caller: Veronica, 32

• Struggle: After the loss of her 8-year-old nephew, Veronica feels abandoned by her friends—none reached out or supported her, despite her history of being supportive to others. She grapples with feelings of loneliness and questions her own worth.
• Insight: Nick provides perspective on friendship as often fleeting and not always reciprocal, especially as adult lives become more complex. He urges Veronica to recognize the depth and strength of her family, avoid self-comparison, and consider therapy to process trauma and reshape her narrative.
• Advice Highlights:
  • "Friendships are very fleeting... as we get older, we realize how special family is."
  • Encourage expressing needs directly (even at risk of rejection) and avoid tying self-worth to friends’ actions.
  • Unpack the difference between healthy selflessness and using acts of service as roadmaps for how we hope others will treat us.
  • Therapy, or even low-stakes communication (with strangers, support groups), can help process grief without overburdening loved ones.

Memorable Quotes:

"You have to be willing to ask... you can't put words in people's mouths and then judge yourself by what you imagine they're thinking." — Nick (97:21)
"If you live to 90, you'll make friends in your 80s. Some may be really special. Friends come and go—they’re not blood." — Nick (98:58)
"You have to help yourself out a little bit, even at the risk of being rejected." — Nick (93:42)

Timestamps:

• Veronica’s story & pain: (68:35–80:18)
• Advice on friendships, perspective, and therapy: (80:18–105:59)
• Self-worth & self-talk: (105:59–122:43)

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Notable Moments & Quotes

• On Setting Relationship Intentions:
  "At some point, we’ve become so afraid of rejection, of losing something we care about, that we act so non-committal." — Nick (13:54)

• Advice for Pregnant Women:
  "You get to be so unreasonable right now... you only have one job: don't do what you don't want to do." — Nick (58:07, 65:14)

• On Grief and Friendship:
  "Help yourself; just because you tried therapy once and it didn’t work isn’t an excuse to avoid it. Especially in these types of situations where you’re dealing with real trauma." — Nick (110:16)

• On People Pleasing:
  "Your pregnancy is a great opportunity to practice not being a people pleaser. If there’s ever a better time—this is it." — Nick (56:21)

• On Modern Connections:
  "Everyone has main character syndrome these days. Everyone's got problems, very few people, despite this terrible tragedy, have what you have in terms of a family." — Nick (118:10)

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Episode Structure: Timestamps & Callers

| Time | Caller | Main Issue | |----------|--------------|--------------------------------------------------| | 01:48 | Jessica | Dating, self-deception, non-communicative men | | 40:51 | Haley | Pregnancy, mother-in-law, boundaries | | 68:35 | Veronica | Grief, loneliness, friendship, self-worth |

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Tone & Style

Throughout, Nick blends empathy with directness, validating emotional pain but also framing it in practical, actionable terms. He often references his own experiences or analogies and uses humor or candid language to drive home the message (“You have nine months to blame it on hormones.”).

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Key Takeaways

• Intentionality is Vital: Whether in dating, marriage, or family, having goals, standards, and boundaries protects both your heart and your future happiness.
• Self-Honesty First: Reflect honestly about what you want and need before negotiating those wants with others.
• Family First, Friends Can Be Ephemeral: Don’t overlook or minimize the incredible value of family if friends disappoint you—especially in adulthood.
• Boundaries Are Liberating: Both in pregnancy and beyond, learning to say “no” without guilt can be transformative—not just for you but for the health of your relationships.
• Therapy Is Not One-Size-Fits-All: Keep searching if you haven’t found a good fit; your emotional well-being deserves patience and persistence.

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For listeners:
This episode is a rich exploration of everyday struggles—reminding us all that our feelings are valid, but also that we hold the power to change our approach, set healthier boundaries, and give ourselves grace, especially when life is at its most challenging.

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Transcript

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[Caller Veronica]

You're crazy.

[Nick]

How's it going?

[Caller Jessica]

Good. How are you?

[Nick]

Good. What's your name?

[Caller Jessica]

My name is Jessica. I am 32 and I keep getting attached to men who can't communicate.

[Nick]

Okay. Have you met men that you that can communicate that you're not attached to?

[Caller Jessica]

No, not really.

[Nick]

Okay, describe. Well, why don't you just describe maybe the, the most recent or one that comes to mind. Maybe that prompted you to write in.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah, so maybe a little background will be helpful. So haven't really dated much. I was in last serious relationship was my early 20s.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Caller Jessica]

And then after that, I got involved with someone I was working with. It was very. Started very casual. Not the best situation, but I had some, you know, family stuff going on and it was really just a distraction. And throughout that I was the one not communicating, like, oh, I don't need to communicate. Like, if I don't talk about my problems, they're not there and we don't need to acknowledge them and everything will be fine. Definitely wasn't fine. Ended up pretty hurt through that situation. Took some time from that.

[Nick]

Why were you hurt? Like what, what were you ignoring or.

[Caller Jessica]

Not Communic feelings when feelings got involved.

[Nick]

Gotcha. And I'm assuming you started sleeping with this person?

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah. Okay.

[Caller Jessica]

Yep. So definitely didn't communicate when feelings got involved. I'm like, well, you know, it's fine. Everything will be fine. It's just a distraction. It's not really going to go anywhere.

[Nick]

Did feelings get involved? At what point did feelings get involved?

[Caller Jessica]

Probably a few years in. It definitely went on way longer than it should have.

[Nick]

Oh my God. How long did this go on for?

[Caller Jessica]

About six years.

[Nick]

Oh, you. Okay. You were casually hooking up with someone at from work for six years?

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah. Yeah. But it was like an on and off again. It was just kind of when it was convenient for me, when it was convenient for him kind of thing.

[Nick]

Well, how convenient was it for? Well, six years is a very long time.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So like that's, that's. And your. The way you're talking about it, you're talking about it like a six months is a long time. I mean, like. Yeah, you're talking about as like a two, two or three month thing.

[Caller Jessica]

No, it was definitely a long, drawn out kind of shit happening.

[Nick]

Did you, in those six years, did you date other people that he dated other people?

[Caller Jessica]

No. So to throw another wrench in here, he was separated but not actually divorced.

[Nick]

Okay. So for the whole six years?

[Caller Veronica]

Yep.

[Nick]

So he's. He's been a marriage.

[Caller Jessica]

So I was told. So I was told.

[Nick]

Do you think is. He's still married as far as your.

[Caller Jessica]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

No, they're still living with his wife.

[Caller Veronica]

Yep.

[Nick]

Was he always living with his wife?

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Caller Jessica]

So just not a great situation all around. But with everything else going on in my life, like it. It kind of served a purpose.

[Nick]

Gotcha.

[Caller Jessica]

And then once I was too far in, that's kind of when it got messy.

[Nick]

Okay, well, how messy? I mean, I guess like how messy did it Get.

[Caller Jessica]

It didn't really get messy, I guess, in the term, like, the sense of anything, like, dramatic happening. It was just once the feelings got involved and I knew that they weren't going anywhere, I kind of had to talk myself out of the mindset of, like, well, having something's better than having nothing at all. And, you know, I deserve more than that.

[Nick]

Did you ever, like, shoot your shot, or were you just like, I don't know. This guy's probably married and probably not even separated.

[Caller Veronica]

No.

[Caller Jessica]

Maybe, like, a few months before it ended. I did. I was, like, very open. I'm like, you know, there's feelings involved. And he's like, yeah, well, this can be. And I'm like, well, okay.

[Nick]

He said, what? This could. What?

[Caller Jessica]

This can never be a thing. You know, it's too complicated. My kids, all the, you know, all the excuses.

[Nick]

Gotcha. Yeah. Okay.

[Caller Jessica]

That took up the majority of my 20s and then kind of got past that, and I'm like, all right, let me give dating a shot. You know, now that I'm 32, I kind of. I've worked through that. Know kind of what I'm looking for, for. Let me see what's out there.

[Nick]

Okay. And then what are you running into now?

[Caller Jessica]

So I've been using the apps because that seems to be the way to go these days. First person I met up with was pretty. I don't want to say significantly younger, but he was younger. I'm like, oh, this will be good to just kind of get my feet wet, see what's out there, meet up with someone. Not really expecting, you know, too much from that. And it definitely turned into a little more than I was expecting at first.

[Nick]

How so?

[Caller Jessica]

We just. We started instantly. It was a good connection. We had really easy conversation. He seemed very respectful, got along pretty well, jumped pretty fast into communicating pretty regularly.

[Nick]

This is the first guy you went on a date with that you met on the apps post? Yeah. Married guy. Okay.

[Caller Veronica]

Yep.

[Nick]

All right.

[Caller Jessica]

Hung out probably like three times in that first week and a half after meeting. And he was very. It took like. Nothing physical happened right away. It was just kind of a lot of talking, getting to know each other, enjoyed being around him.

[Nick]

How much younger?

[Caller Jessica]

He's 23, so nine years.

[Nick]

Okay. And what were you getting out of that?

[Caller Jessica]

It was just nice to be around somebody that, you know, there was no limitations or anything. Genuinely enjoyed being around each other, could, you know, go out and do things or just have a quiet night in. And it was not solely physical.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Caller Jessica]

So that was kind Of a nice change from.

[Nick]

Did it get physical?

[Caller Jessica]

It did eventually. Yeah.

[Nick]

How long?

[Caller Jessica]

And took maybe three or four times hanging out to kiss. And then we went more than that. Maybe five or six.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay. And then how. What happened with that guy?

[Caller Jessica]

Um, so we kept. We were pretty consistently communicating. Kept checking in, like, are we on the same page? There were no real expectations up front. Just like, let's talk, see what happens, where it goes. Either it's going to work or it's not, but we'll find out either way. We were seemingly on the same page. And then it got to the point where it was harder and harder to actually see him. We were talking all day, but actually getting him to make a plan was becoming increasingly difficult.

[Nick]

And that changed.

[Caller Jessica]

And lives a mile away.

[Nick]

But that changed, right? Like, it was. It wasn't always difficult. And then it became difficult.

[Caller Jessica]

It became difficult. Yeah, it was super easy at first, and then it became increasingly difficult.

[Nick]

How shortly after you guys had sex did it start getting difficult?

[Caller Jessica]

Maybe like a month later. So he was pretty consistent up until that point. And then I went on a work trip and came back.

[Nick]

And what were. What were. As you started getting to know this guy, started enjoying his company, and it started to get physical. What. Forgetting about what his expectations were, what you guys were communicating, what were you. What were you getting out of it? And what did you hope to continue to get out of it, had it moved forward?

[Caller Jessica]

I guess I was just hoping to get out of someone that I could see, like, on a regular basis. I'm not overly concerned with titles. Like, I'm not looking to find a husband. I'm not looking to start a family. I just kind of want someone that I. Period. Yeah. I mean, I'm not, like, opposed to it. If it happens, it happens, but I'm not. Like, that's not a goal. I'm not set out like, I need to find a husband and start a family.

[Nick]

When you say need to, like, I. I'm just curious. I'm trying to understand how honest you're being with yourself. I'm trying to figure that, you know, there's a difference between, like, I don't need to find a man and a husband sort of family versus, like, would you like to.

[Caller Jessica]

I'm not opposed to a husband. I've never really wanted to start a family.

[Nick]

You don't want kids?

[Caller Jessica]

No, I've never really wanted them.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Caller Jessica]

I'd say, like, 90% now there's a part of me that's open to a discussion, you know, if I was with the right person and that was important to them. I definitely, you know, consider it and see what life looked like at that point. But I'm not, it's not like a must do.

[Nick]

But you. So you're just kind of looking for companionship.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah, companionship, consistency. Just someone to someone that adds value to my life.

[Nick]

Okay. You want him to add. Okay. And then what happened with that guy?

[Caller Jessica]

So a lot of back and forth. Still talking every day, but still not making any plans despite him being so close. And you know, the whole if he wanted to, he would is in the back of my head. But then I'm like, well, you know, sometimes I want to and I don't. So you know. How true is that? Yeah, um, definitely a little rose colored glasses there. But.

[Nick]

And then what, what, what, what, what thoughts or perspective did you have on the fact that him being that he was nine years younger and just a 23 year old man.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah, like I definitely, I'm like, well he's significantly younger. He didn't have much dating experience. Had a really bad breakup with the only serious relationship he'd ever been in.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Jessica]

So I'm like trying to give him a little grace on that. And like, maybe he's just young and doesn't know how to navigate this. But yeah, where I'm like, communication is basic. Like if you don't want to see me, just, I'm an adult, you can tell me you don't want to see me.

[Nick]

Yeah, for sure. I mean like, listen, I. That's true. It's also like, it's an awkward conversation. A lot of people who aren't 23 still aren't good at that. I think it's just more even before it got to that point where his communication changed, you know, I think it was. It's important. Like, I guess my point is, is like, you know, so first, you know, when it comes to like your dating life. Right. Like we're learning a little bit about what you want for your. Yourself. Right. Kids aren't really on the, on the plan. You're open to it. Fine, whatever. But that's not something that like you're. It's not a big priority for you. You are looking for like companionship. You're not even that interested in getting married. I guess you just want like some kind of life partner. I think that's getting more and more common these days. I do think, I don't know, I kind of feel like we need goals when it comes to anything in our life or a plan. So to Speak like you don't want to be so rigid when it comes to your romantic life, but like the kind of companionship you're describing is just kind of non committal, right? And our present state of dating is if it's very non committal landscape or, you know, I, I, I guess what I'm saying is I still think you need to be more intentional, I guess with the type of person you are looking to date, right? Yeah, if you want, if, if all you're looking for, right, if what you're saying is like, I just, I just want someone around from time to time. The way you're operating right now, it seems like is a good plan. If the person who you have companionship with doesn't really matter, so to speak. Okay, honestly, like for some people in various stages of their life, this, this, this might work out but like, or it might be just exactly what they're looking for. But what I mean by, it's just like, I mean the six years is a long time, but like the way you're going about it now, it, it's kind of like it would, it's setting you up to like have a four month fling here, a six month fling there, hang out with someone, get to know them, have a bit of fun. It's kind of casual. I think we are all lacking a sense of, of, of commitment. I mean at some point, this laissez faire attitude that I think we have all come to accept when it comes to dating. I don't know if it a chicken before the egg situation, like are all of us saying to ourselves, oh, I'm not looking, you know, whatever. I'm just, I'm not looking for anything that serious and I'm pretty chill and I don't, I'm not, I don't really care about labels. Is that how we really feel or are we saying that to ourselves? Because that's the landscape that we think is in existence and we're just trying to be chill within the landscape that we're operating. If you meet a guy, forgetting that this guy was 23 or whatever, but like if you meet a guy and right off the bat you're just like setting the expectation. Like I'm not really looking for anything that serious. Let's just take it slow. I don't like labels. You know, listen, if it's convenient for you and if it's convenient for me, we'll hang out, you know, and we'll have a good time. Like if, if that's the expectation you're setting With a guy you're dating, you're, you're just going to, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And same way with, if a guy said that to a girl, you know, it's just like you're just giving that person permission to not really invest in you or this. You know, like at some point we, we've become so afraid of rejection, of losing something we care about that we pretend or act so non committal.

[Caller Jessica]

That definitely makes sense.

[Nick]

And that's not setting us up to get anything that we want. Right. That's setting us up to date a guy who claims to be separated from his wife for six years. You know, it's just like you're being way too chill for your own good is kind of how I see it. Right. It's just you want to date a 23 year old guy 9 years younger than you. Go have fun, right? Like you got to be realistic and be surprised. Right. When I met Natalie, I unfairly had some, I guess, assumptions about her, her maturity level, our compatibility, etcetera, etcetera. I was proven wrong. Right. But I at least went in with a, like a more realistic, you know, I'd rather be proven wrong than assume that like, oh my God, she's different than everybody else. Like she's so mature, you know, like. Right. Like be surprised. Right. But like you need to kind of go in more realistic about the people you're dating. If a man tells you that he separated from his wife and it's complicated, but he still lives with his wife and he has kids, he's probably not actually separated. Especially like if there's no movement, right?

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

When you meet a 23 year old guy, just assume that he's probably not, you know, he lacks the dating, you know, almost certainly based off of time, you know, there's a good chance he doesn't have the dating experience that you have. It could be, that might not be entirely true, but like there's a good chance maybe not. You can make certain, you make, you can make certain guesses and assumptions and then be proven wrong rather than being so chill about like not wanting to like, oh, you know, some people be like, well I, you know, I just want to get to know people first. I don't want to make any assumptions. I don't want to project any like, of my past. You know, that's, that's all well and good, but that's also like being a little delusional and a little naive. Right. Like part the, the benefit of experiencing life and getting older. Is that we learn some lessons, often tough lessons, about how people treat us, how people react to certain situations. We get better at reading people. We get better at reading situation situations. And, and sure, sometimes that comes with a level of assumption and being wrong about people. But like, we have to learn from our previous interactions and mistakes. Like, we can't be so naive that we're just like, well, I don't want to. You know, I know this happened to me in the past, but that doesn't dictate the future. I mean, that there's some level of truth to that. But let's not be so delusional about, like, how things have a history of repeating themselves and people aren't that complicated. And usually people like, will have patterns from, you know, we can learn things from our previous interactions to protect us from future ones. Right. If you first called in saying you're falling for men who are bad communicators. Well, one like one. The first guy you described was probably Mary. The second one is nine years younger than you and was coming off a bad breakup with limited dating experience. And the communication you were having with him, while it sounds like you guys were talking and enjoying getting to know each other, there were really no expectations. It was, the expectations was, I'm chill, you're chill. We owe each other nothing every. Every day. Like, that's it. Well, if that's the expectation, you know, then you're setting yourself up for these situations. Does that make sense?

[Caller Jessica]

Right? Yeah, no, that definitely makes sense.

[Nick]

You know, if you, if you meet a guy and you like him, then you're going to have to put yourself out there a little bit, you know, at the risk of being rejected.

[Caller Jessica]

Right. And it did get to that point where I wanted to talk to him about, you know, hey, we've been hanging out for a little bit. I enjoy being around you. I'm not talking to other people. Not really interested in talking to other people. But I wanted to have that conversation in person.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Jessica]

And then that just never happened.

[Nick]

I think people should start having that conversation before they have sex, you know? Yeah, there's that.

[Caller Jessica]

Yep.

[Nick]

I know that often doesn't happen and it's hard to do in today's dating climate, but especially from a women's perspective, you have a lot more power in that conversation if you have that before you guys are intimate rather than after you're intimate. You know, there's that emotional attachment women often not always have to sex that men don't experience. Right. So, like, it might, you might be feeling a certain Way simply because he had sex with them, not because you actually like them. And he might be feeling a certain way simply because he had sex with you. And maybe he likes you more than he realizes, but it's just like, you know, also like, you know, did you get your opinion? Did you get. Did he ever. Did you guys talk about your age difference at all?

[Caller Jessica]

We did at the start and we both said, you know, it didn't bother either one of us. I, I've always kind of been like an age is just a number. As long as we click like personality wise values, things like that. And we're at a relatively similar, like goal minded.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Jessica]

Otherwise it's not a huge deal for me.

[Nick]

So in either direction, other than these two guys, are there other people you've been talking to that are.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah. So when this kind of all stopped, I went pretty dating heavy and was just like, let me go out with as many people, like, see who's out there, see what happens.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Jessica]

Let me just, you know, try to get past this one, have some fun. Met up with someone that was just in town for the night. So, you know, the expectation was that it was just a hookup, just for fun, had a good night, said, you know, get home safe, maybe we'll talk, maybe we won't. Whatever happens, happens. Not really expecting anything. Chatted a little bit here and there after for a couple weeks, but nothing of substance. Didn't have any thoughts of it going anywhere. And then he had asked one day, you know, have you been with anyone else since you were with me and this was a few weeks later. And I was honest. I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm dating, I've been out with people. And he freaked out. He's like, well, I was really into you. I wanted to see if this would go somewhere when there was no the.

[Nick]

Guy you had on like never any talk of that one night stand with, Essentially.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Caller Jessica]

So then I'm like, okay, someone else that like can't communicate because we communicated. The expectation was like, it was a hookup. And all of a sudden you're, you know, mad that I've been moving as a single girl does.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Jessica]

Saying that you were into me. You thought it would go somewhere. Like, where did that come from?

[Nick]

And then it stopped you, you know, he was like, done because you.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah, he was done. He's like, I, you know, if you're talking to other people and if you're with other people, I want nothing to do with this. I'm like, well, okay, that's that's your right. It doesn't make any sense, but you know, you do you.

[Nick]

Well, I mean, listen, like one. I think in general as a society, we become worse communicators, right? Like social media, texting, all these, all these alternatives to a face to face conversation have made us poor communicators. It is just easier to send a text and, and, or, or just avoid communicating. So there's that. Right? And then I think also men generally are worse at communicating than women. I think that's a generalization that's somewhat safe to make, but yeah, still a generalization. So, yeah. And then I think you, particularly from what I'm picking up on is that like you, you're being a little too chill and understanding even for yourself, where it's just like, I could just picture you, you meet a guy again, you're just like, hey, I'm. Whatever happens, happens. I get how this decision making tree or lifestyle is exciting, right? Because if you're really good at, you know, initially in a dating situation being very chill and very casual and very like, you know, I don't know. I don't really know this guy. Just very pragmatic, right? And like, I don't know, like, I wanna, I wanna have sex tonight. Great. Like you, you. I love that you made that decision based on the fact that you just want to have fun tonight. You're not gonna, you're not overthinking it. But if you get really good at that when, when these people follow up with like, oh, like, I wanna. It gets exc. It's kind of exciting, you know, it's like, oh, well, I guess there is something here and that's fun. But I think that can be a little dangerous to always be excited about someone who surprises you. Right? Like if you're so good at not having any expectations of any dating situation, when someone surprises you with an expectation they have, there's like, oh my. Oh, okay, well, I guess you did miss me. Okay. Okay. I guess that. Sure. And that is fun, but right. You get so good at that. I think you're setting yourself up to get hurt often, right? Because you're kind of convincing yourself you don't care. You convince yourself you don't care. It's super casual. Someone surprised you and says, hey, I want to hang out. Actually I want to hang out with you. Oh. And then you have fun. You go on a date. Oh, actually I want to hang out with you again. Oh, okay, cool. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, fuck, I Like this guy, you know?

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Because then you hooked up, and you're just like. You keep telling yourself it's casual. You keep telling yourself it's casual, and then one day you realize it's not casual for me. Right. And I think you. We, including you, have to get a little better at saying there's that fine line between being realistic that. All right. Because the opposite of you, right, is someone who's called in before and meet someone and says something like, you know, I went out with this person, and we had this amazing first date. And. And then, okay, I was. I wanted to be chill. And then we went on a second date two days later, and it was also amazing. And I just like. I really like this guy. And it's just like, well, you had two good dates. Like, you know, and they just from that point on decide they like this guy. Like that. That's the opposite end the spectrum for you. Right? And they've convinced themselves they're into this guy they barely know and then start, like, obsessively pursuing a relationship with someone that they barely know. Right. And they have all these. They have too many expectations, and they're not as open to just learning about people and Cat, you know, and then they convince ourselves that they like someone more than they actually maybe do, and they're not open to just, like, getting to know someone. And then you're on the other ad being like, I got no expectations. I'm going to pretend I don't like this guy. Sure, we had two good dates, but, like, whatever. Just being kind of so overly pragmatic and a little cynical about dating and dismissing the fact that, like, you're a human being and you can develop feelings. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think you got to find that balance.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah. And that's. I guess what I need the most help with is finding that balance. Three weeks ago, I did have a really good first date with someone. He's. Since he's been sent out of state for work, so haven't seen him since. But the. We've been, you know, checking in once a day or so. Like, how's your day? Things like that. I want to make plans when I get back kind of thing, and I do want to see him again, but I don't know, like, where is that fine line of the communication where I don't want it to be overly communicating, but I don't want to be, like, as chill as I have been, Hard.

[Nick]

For me to say. I think you just kind of have to find it you have to be willing to swing and miss. You have to be willing. Everyone's different, too. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know if you're watching Bachelor in Paradise, but Brian on Bratzer in paradise doesn't, like, want to be complimented, you know?

[Caller Veronica]

Right?

[Nick]

He doesn't want to talk about his colors, you know, I don't know. It sounds weird to me that, like, you know, I think there's a lot of. Everyone's different, right? So I know that's, like, maybe a confusing answer, but you got to find what you're comfortable with, what matters to you. Like, what do you. What kind of form of communication do you like? You know what I'm saying? Early on, when you like a guy, what's too much for you and what's not enough? Ronnie Wu was a guest we had a long time ago. I've brought this up multiple times because one. And he's. I think it was a former psychologist, he had a bit of advice, and I. It was really stuck with me. And it's just like, act as if, right? Like, you dictate the terms of communication. Too many people will play the game of, like, well, I'm not going to call for. I don't want to seem too eager. I'll wait three. Like, I'll wait three days to respond, or I'll do this or whatever. And it's just like, all right, if that's the type of pattern that you want, then do that. But if you like someone who responds quickly, then respond quickly, right? And if that. If that gives them the ick, if that, you know, then you're already, like, you don't want any part of that person. You know, if. But if you're all right, they text me. I'm gonna. I'm gonna go ahead and text them back. You know, maybe short of, like, looking like you're living on your phone and maybe let it breathe for, like, 30 minutes, but, like, normal communication, if that's how you like to communicate with people, that's how you should communicate with people. See if they respond in kind. You know, you can start there. Don't try to convince yourself that you don't like someone or that you. It's. It's. You know, that you. You need to be more chill. Like, when you have to convince yourself, like, well, I don't want to sound crazy. Like, what does that mean? Like, are you doing something crazy? You know, too many, especially women, I think too many women worry about sounding crazy or acting crazy to a guy. When it's just Norma behavior.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And if a guy, if, you know, if you're going to date a Brian from Bachelor in Paradise, you're not crazy, he's just a dick, you know, or he's just kind of emotionally kind of reactive. And that's not the type of guy you want to with, you know, someone who's just like, very prickly with their emotions and feelings, you know, but you have to be willing to be rejected. You know? The problem, the difficult part of being someone who's confident in what they want, someone who's confident in setting the expectations they have and confident in setting boundaries, is that, like, you learn pretty quickly all the people who like, don't want to fuck with your terms. Right. That's why people are often people pleasers. Right. Because they don't want to find out what it's like for someone to be like, I don't want to do that. You know, I don't like that. That's not for me. The people pleaser isn't worried about what they want or what they need. They're just like, they're here. What do you want? What do you want? How can I make you happy? What, what do you like? You know, and there's a balance there, but like, that's also just a recipe for just chasing people. So, like, you have to find that balance of being okay with someone just not fudgeing with how you fuck with, you know, or how you communicate, but like, stop trying to figure out them. Figure out what you want first and then just do that and see who is down, so to speak.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, okay. And every situation is different, you know, if there's a guy you've been hanging out with, I've enjoyed hanging out with you. Do you want to get together again? If you, if, if, if you want to hang out with them again? If this is someone you start liking and you see potential with before you get physical, I would definitely have the, hey, I don't want to see anyone else but you conversation before you actually get physical. I would try that out for size also. But if you're just a woman who just wants to, like, enjoy hookup culture while you're a single woman, go ahead and do that. Knowing that, like you're just having. And then if it happens to be a guy you end up liking, then you'll have to just deal with that. Right. Knowing that, like, that might complicate the situation. But ultimately, if they really like you, then, you know, it hopefully won't change anything.

[Caller Jessica]

Okay. So with the first one, the younger one, I did at one point say like, here's what I want. And he's like, yeah, I do too. So he was like saying all the right things, even though the actions weren't adding up.

[Nick]

I mean, you're gonna deal with that.

[Caller Jessica]

Because I said straight out, like, if you want to see, like if you're seeing other people, if you don't want to see me, like, that's fine, just tell me. I'd rather like know the truth. So I said like, just, just let me know. Like, I can take rejection, but it took a long time to get to that point where he was finally honest with it. Like, how do I let people know? Like, it's like, reject me, it's fine. I'd rather just be rejected and move.

[Nick]

On than like, yeah, but you're not. That's not very realistic. You know what's more realistic is you said to this 23 year old man, at some point, listen, if, if you're not feeling this, let's let me know. And in that moment, maybe he just wasn't sure. Maybe it was like, I don't know. She is cool and I enjoy hanging out with her and it's good sex and you know, she's older and she seems to know what she's want, she wants. And I actually like the fact that, you know, I like her maturity and things like that. I don't know, I'm not really sure. And then two weeks go by, he goes out with his boys, right? Like he meets someone, he, who wasn't in his life a week ago and now that changes the equation. Like when you. Again, that's kind of my point. So it's like when everything's so casual, everyone has the opportunity to level up, you know, from their perspective, to trade up to be like, oh, well, I mean, sure, I'm. When they go out with their guys or they go with the girls, they can keep their eyes open, they can flirt, they can. You know, I remember when, now when Natalie and I finally became boyfriend and girlfriend. Like that was my first, like that was the first time in a long time I called some of my girlfriends and it was like, oh, oh, I have a girlfriend now. You know, I had to quickly, you know, again, I was single for years, two years. So I had a lot of women friends, you know, like, not that, but like it was always flirtatious and friendly and just like I didn't ever have to worry about that. Like, I didn't have to hold myself accountable to like Having that mentality and that mentality to always, that I was always kind of available, that wherever, whatever event I went to, whatever party I went to, if I met a beautiful woman, I like, I could always, I was always in like single nick mode and I could be a little flirtatious, I could be a little, like, if nothing else, I could see if, you know, she would flirt with me so I could, you know, my ego would get boosted. And then all of a sudden you get a girlfriend, right? And that, that should change your thought process. It's like, well, I should, I'm not, I shouldn't be flirting now. Like, you know, if, if my women friends who are comfortable to just be more casual and flirty with me, I have to shut that down. I have to be different. Right? So like I had different expectations of myself and that, that mentality kind of matters. Right? We need, we need to, to be, to pursue something with someone. We need some roadblocks, right? And if, if we're always these free agents that like we, anytime we go out, there's the possibility of liking someone else that makes it really hard to ever really commit to anything. And then you added into the fact that he's 23 year old man, he's relatively early in his relationship, you know, that, that's, that's why it, sometimes you just have to like, and with this guy, you know, after like four or five dates or hooking up, you could have been like, listen, I really like you. And like I, you know, if you want to keep doing this, I, I don't want to hang out with it. Like, I want to see where this goes. And he can say no, right? But that's different than being like, I really like you. I just want you to know that I don't want it to change anything. No labels. We're definitely still not dating. But I just, just so you know, I do like you. And if you feel the same or you don't feel the same, let me know. It's too casual. Like, there's no.

[Caller Jessica]

Definitely what I did.

[Nick]

Like, yeah, right. Like, so what do you say to that person who says it to you? You're like, oh, yeah. I mean, I, yeah, I don't know. I like you too. Sure. I'm like, but yeah, yeah, we're not boyfriend and girlfriend. I am going out with the guys tonight. He probably wouldn't say that, but in his head he's like, well, I, I can, I can still flirt. I guess I can even still have sex with other women. It's just like, yeah, no, I like. You sure? Like, yeah. Why would he say anything different?

[Caller Veronica]

Right?

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah, no, that makes sense.

[Nick]

You know, until he meets someone different or, you know, and. And. And meet someone who's like, I kind of want to with her more now, I guess, you know, you have to find out who's willing to change for you, you know? Like, again, when. When Natalie became my girlfriend, part of the equation of, like, finally, for the first time in years, saying, I'm gonna make this person my girlfriend, and we're gonna see where it goes. Part of that was saying for the first time in years, to like women in my life to be like, I have a girlfriend now. Like, I. Things are different. I couldn't just, like, have women friends over at my house to hang out and shoot the. You know, like, it was. I had a girlfriend now. Like, I had to change the calculus. And part of that was like, well, I must really like this girl. I. I want to do this for her. I want to see where this goes, you know? Like, I want to invest in this person, in this relationship. To invest in things means you have to, like, prioritize it and give it time and maybe make some sacrifices and say no to other things, maybe not make investments in other places in your life. Right? That all makes sense.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah. No, it definitely makes sense.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Jessica]

And I think I definitely need to solidify, like, more what I want and not be quite as chill, you know?

[Nick]

I think you're doing a great job because, like, I think you have a nice outlook on dating. You have to be willing to take that back, right? Like, you. You know, so you just. The. I think you just have to make small tweak, which is have a little bit more expectations of yourself. And just know that, like, again, you're gonna. You're gonna have a lot of swings and misses. And by swings and misses, I just mean, like, they like you, you don't like them, vice versa. Like, again, like, it's not just you, it's everyone, right? It's dating climate in general. It's just kind of a mess. Everyone is like this. You have to put yourself out there. If everyone's just so fucking casual about dating, then nothing really gets done, right? And that's when you end up dating people for years without any real, like, commitment or expectation. And you have to be okay with telling yourself, fuck it. I can't. I think I kind of like this guy, and I want to see where it goes. I'm not obsessed with him. He might not like me. I'll get over it. If I get rejected. But like, yeah, I want to see where this goes, you know, And I'm gonna, I'm gonna put myself out there and just. Yeah. Try not to get fatigued. If. When you do feel fatigued, take breaks if it feels like you've been more. You know, it's like, I can't take another rejection that happens to all of us, you know, but yeah. Is that helpful?

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah, no, that's definitely super helpful.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Caller Jessica]

It's a good perspective because, you know, my friends, they have the bias of they're my friend and they go off just what I tell them.

[Nick]

And what are they telling you?

[Caller Jessica]

Solid advice, but don't always listen.

[Nick]

What are they telling?

[Caller Jessica]

And honestly, it depends on the friend. I've got some friends that are like brutal truth and they're like, you know, you need to stand up for what you think you want and deserve. And if the communication's inconsistent or whatever, like, don't put up with that.

[Nick]

I would agree.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah, that more. I mean, that's great advice from your friend. Which is like just the more you're willing to put up with, the more people will take. Right. And you just have to be willing to say, I'm not down for that. At the risk of not hearing from them again and. But at least you're not wasting your time. The fact that you with a married man for six years and pretended to tell yourself that he was separated is definitely a red flag that you are good at talking yourself out of things or into things. That you're kind of good at lying to yourself about how you feel about situations. And I think that's something you should really be mindful of, is to check in with yourself about how are you feeling about this situation or this person and just be brutally honest with yourself. You like them, you don't like them, there's no wrong answer. And then once you're honest with yourself, then be honest with them about what you want to pursue. Right. And just be open to be that person who really says, I can handle rejection. That's great. That's like a, you know, it's a great quality to have. And then just, you know, you'll save just a lot of time. You know, more than anything, you're just wasting your own time not really getting to the point sooner and being a little too casual for your own sake.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah, that's awesome.

[Nick]

Yeah. And then the guy who like you had a one night stand with, who decided to be. Well, I don't know, like that's. That just Sounds like maybe kind of a weird. Kind of slightly possessive. And again, not. Not. I don't know. But, like, why did he think that? I don't know. Like, that's kind of an odd.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah, it was just out of nowhere, and I'm like, all right, here we go again with the weird communication.

[Nick]

Like a little slut shamy. Kind of just like, well, what. Why did you.

[Caller Jessica]

What do you mean?

[Nick]

Like, weird, you know, but again, like, that's not really rejection, that you don't confuse men revealing who they are with you being rejected. Even if, like, it feels like you're being rejected, you know, like, in their rejecting you, they're also showing you their emotional immaturity or their reactiveness. And even though it includes them rejecting you, don't let your ego take over and ignore, like, all the things about, like, I don't. Those guys being weird. I don't. Like, thanks for rejecting me. But, like, I. What are you. What the are you talking about? Like, we.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know what I'm saying? Like, so just be careful. You're. You're seeing more and more young, emotionally immature men, and I think they're getting, you know, good at. Yeah. When they feel emotionally hurt, you know, hurt people hurt people. They want to. They'll make you feel rejected by expressing their hurt. All right, well, hopefully this was helpful.

[Caller Jessica]

Yeah, no, this was definitely helpful, and I'm excited to apply some of this and see what happens.

[Nick]

It sounds like you're doing a pretty good job. Like, you're open to dating. You're getting out there there. Just be a little more honest with yourself. Take breaks when you need it, and expect more from the people from the situations you're getting in a little quicker. All right.

[Caller Jessica]

All right, Sounds good.

[Nick]

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[Nick]

How's it going?

[Caller Haley]

Good. My name is Haley, I'm 26 and my mother in law has turned into a monster during my pregnancy and I need help.

[Nick]

How has she turned into a monster?

[Caller Haley]

So my husband, a little backstory is an only child and so everyone has that like oh my God, the only child. They have like a certain like view about them. I've never had a problem with my mother in law. We've had a great relationship and then like all of a sudden when I got pregnant she like has made my pregnancy about her.

[Nick]

How so?

[Caller Haley]

Like we found out pretty early like right at four weeks that I was pregnant. I told them around 6ish, just because like I was telling my family I'm really close to them. And I knew, like, it was important to him to tell his parents, so I was like, yeah, sure. Well, immediately they live eight hours away from us. And so immediately we were going to town, and she was like, I booked a photo shoot. I don't even have an ultrasound at this point. I'm like, six weeks.

[Nick]

She booked a photo shoot for who?

[Caller Haley]

Me and my husband and her and her husband. Like a family photo shoot? Yeah, yeah. So I told my husband, like, I. These are not gonna be my announcement pictures. Like, this is kind of crazy. Like, we don't even know that everything's okay. We haven't even had our first appointment. And so he tells her that, and she was like, oh, no, no. Like, just a family photo shoot. Just for memories.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Caller Haley]

So I feel kind of, like, a.

[Caller Jessica]

Little weird about it.

[Caller Haley]

So I was like, okay. So we go. And she has like, why'd you go? I. Okay, so I'm gonna be totally upfront with you. I am a complete, like, people pleaser. And that's the problem, number one. I can already tell you. And I just felt, like, guilted into it. And I was like, well, if, like, this isn't gonna be my announcement pictures and if it'll make her happy, like, whatever. So I went. Like, we go. We were going to town anyways, and we show up to meet them, and she has, like, made T shirts for herself and her husband that say, promoted to grandparents. Like, so she's turned it into, like, an announcement type thing. And so I'm there. I'm already there. And I'm like, what is this, like, completely thrown off guard? Fast forward a few weeks. We had to go back to town for, like, a family get together. And she told my husband I made an appointment at one of those. Have you ever heard of those, like, boutique, like, ultrasound places where you can go, like, get the 3D, 4D type ultrasound.

[Nick]

We just call them doctor's offices in LA. But.

[Caller Haley]

Well, no. So I don't. This may just be a Southern thing.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Haley]

Because, you know, like, you only get so many throughout pregnancy. And I guess people are really obsessed with, like, going.

[Nick]

I got.

[Caller Haley]

So they have these places where if.

[Nick]

You have a little extra cash, you can. Sure. Okay.

[Caller Haley]

Yeah, yeah. Like, cash only type thing. She told my husband. So I booked an appointment for this 3D ultrasound for us to go to.

[Nick]

Like, in, like, in seven months or. Or.

[Caller Haley]

No, like that week.

[Nick]

3D. It's the size of a pea. Not even. I mean, what are you. What are you.

[Caller Haley]

At this point? I'm like 14, 15 weeks. But yeah, it's literally still tiny. It just now has like limbs and fingers.

[Nick]

All right, so listen, I'm sure you have more of these stories. Are any of these stories beyond like grandma getting a little. A little too excited and a little too. Yeah, just a little too excited about being a first time grandma.

[Caller Haley]

The most recent thing I like recently posted that I was pregnant and I chose the picture that I wanted tagged my husband. Well, she like made her own post and like made it about her being a grandma. And after like everything that's built up.

[Nick]

Hold on. Timeout. Time out, time out, time out, time out. When you say she made her own post, she posted on her Facebook or Instagram or something?

[Caller Haley]

Yes.

[Nick]

Okay. Right.

[Caller Haley]

Yes.

[Nick]

What's wrong with that?

[Caller Haley]

She. So those pictures, the original pictures with her in the shirt, the promoted to grandparents. I like, I really didn't want those posted and like also I.

[Nick]

You didn't want what posted?

[Caller Haley]

Those specific pictures because, like I was sick. I looked like I had like. I don't, I don't know about you when you're.

[Nick]

You didn't like how you looked in the pictures?

[Caller Haley]

No, I didn't like how I looked in the pictures. And I think for me, like I'm very. I'm a private person and so I don't post a lot on social media and so I kind of just wanted to put like this single picture and like that just be it and not like all these other things. And plus like we didn't want the gender or like the name or anything posted on social media. Like only like my parents and his parents know that. And she like some of the posts like insinuated like what the gender was and so now people are like, I don't know. Well, she didn't tag me in it, which is fine.

[Caller Veronica]

But.

[Nick]

All right, so have you. Have you had any conversations with your mom in law.

[Caller Haley]

No. So I felt upset about it and just uncomfortable. So I told my husband, like, hey, like, this is your mom. Like, I feel like if it was like vice versa, like I would confront my mom if you were uncomfortable about something and like I feel like it should be your place to be. Like, hey, like, didn't really love that. Like kind of as a. Not just like, are you telling your husband being hormonal.

[Nick]

No. Yeah, but are you. How are you telling your husband after the fact or.

[Caller Haley]

Yeah, like after it happened. I. And. But it was like right after.

[Nick]

Yeah, but the photo.

[Caller Haley]

Because I didn't.

[Nick]

Yeah, but he didn't know or care and he's just like, he's not. I think you just have to listen. I get why you're frustrated, but you lying grandma's this excited, all right. It's a little annoying. She's excited. She's not. She's not a criminal. She's just, like, older and doesn't. I don't know. She's just never been a grandma before. I. I agree with you that overall, like, definitely your husband's responsibility to, like, set expectations with his parents. And, you know, it's your responsibility to kind of set expectations with your parents. And I think you and your husband can do probably a better job of, like, I don't know. How do you guys want to go about this pregnancy? Right? Like, just certain things, right? Do we want to find out the gender? Yes. No. Okay, fine. Do we want to tell anyone, including our parents, the gender? Yes. No. Okay, fine. If we tell anyone the gender, what rules do we make it very clear to the people we trust? Hey, we're not telling anyone. Like, this is very important to us. I don't want to see anything online. I don't want to. How do you want to go about this pregnancy that starts with the conversations about you and your husband? What are we going to do as a couple? Like, and again, I hope that your husband is a little bit of, like, all right, you're pregnant. How can I make your life easier? I don't care what you want, but what do you want? I just want you to be stress free. I want you to be chill. Put that on me. I hope your husband's giving you a little bit of that energy. Right? But it starts with you guys, right? And you guys very much have to be a team, right? And then when our. When. And then when your parents kind of get weird or they kind of, you know, you just. You got to tell them, right? But they don't know. Like, they're just. They're just kind of being kind of weird and excited and. And she made some T shirts and she's. I don't know, she's just getting a little carried away, and no one's really telling her. She doesn't know any better. And you're kind of getting mad at her, and it's just like, she posts some, like, first, like, I understand that you don't want pictures that you don't feel like you look good in, but, like, it is her post, right? So to speak.

[Caller Veronica]

Right?

[Nick]

So. And you're like, you're not an influencer, and it's not like you're like, so you're kind of giving, like, influencer vibes where you're like, that's not for your picture to post. And it's like, you know, it's just like, I don't know. She's a grandma, you know, if you. Again, if you didn't want any other pictures online, that's fine. But you. You and your husband need to talk about that first, and then you need to communicate that to everyone else. They don't know. You have the right to handle this pregnancy however you want. You can be as ridiculous as you want, you can be as rigid as you want, but you have to figure out what. You can't decide after it happens.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You can't be like, oh, well, I didn't know. I didn't want you posting pictures. I didn't think to tell you that because I didn't think you would be weird. That's. That's kind of how you're going about it now.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah.

[Caller Haley]

Well, no, I respect your opinion. And see, like, I have, like, my sister and I obviously have similar views. And so when we've talked about it, she's like, yeah, that's not okay. So she's like in my ear, hyping me up, and I'm like, yeah, you know what? That's not okay.

[Caller Veronica]

But.

[Nick]

So, I mean, it's. It's not okay for you, you know, it's not okay for your sister. And, And. And again, you're the pregnant person here, so, like, you have every right to decide what is and isn't okay. But people can't. They can't guess, you know, and every. Every family is different. Every people are. This is. This is a special moment for a lot of people involved. Certainly more the most special to you and your husband. But certainly as grandparents, this is dream, you know, and this is how they're celebrating it. And they don't know any better, and they don't. They don't know what you want or don't want.

[Caller Haley]

But I guess, like, moving forward, like, because I'm not gonna be like, tell her to delete those pictures right now. Like, it's already, like, people have already seen it. It's done. You know, it is what it is. But, like, I made a comment and I was like, hey, so, like, moving forward, I feel like we should, like, set some boundaries. And he was like, well, I just. All he thought about. And I know, like, I have had these things building up to where I'm like, and she's done this, and she's done this. And she's done this and all he is seeing is like, all she did was post pictures. Like I don't see the problem. And so I obviously am a little more hormonal right now and not to blame it on that and like minimize myself but so I'm like, you're not understanding me or like you're not like validating me. And so then we're kind of at like a crossroads right now where I think he's misunderstanding like how we should handle it going forward like with both of our parents.

[Nick]

Well, how do you want to. Oh, and that's the thing. And my point is I think as the pregnant person in the story, you get to do whatever the fuck you want. You got nine months to just blame it on hormones. It, you know, you, you, you know the world is asking a lot of you in your body and you are sacrificing so much for the life of this child and for her to be, for mother in law to be a grandma and your husband to be a father. It's. You get spoil yourself. You know, you get to do the fuck you want. But you do have to communicate it, right? And you know, more than anything I would just love for you and your husband to sit down and just say listen, whether it's hormones or what, I don't know. But like can we just do. This is us. This is about us. We are the only people that matters in our baby and our stress levels. And I want him to only care about one thing. And is my wife stressed or is she not stressed? Stressed. How is she stressed? Doesn't really matter. Stress is the enemy. And if you are causing stress, you're the enemy, so to speak. You know, including mother in laws. And I, I want him to have that energy and I hope that you can just sit him down and be like this, just help me out here. But you have to help him help you. Right?

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And, and can we. And call me crazy, maybe I'm hormonal, whatever. But like I just don't want to worry about this shit. So can. What do we want as a couple? How do we want to handle our pregnancy? What do we want a baby shower? Do we not want a baby shower? Who do we want to throw the baby shower? Do we want 17 baby showers? I don't know. Do we want no baby showers? Decide these things. There's no wrong answer. If you want grandma to abide by some of your, just let her know. Just be like, listen, we just, we want to keep it. Can, please, can you disrespect and that's He. He should communicate that. And he doesn't have to agree with you, but he needs to have your back.

[Caller Haley]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And you can blame it on the fact that, like, this is, this is what we want want, because at the end of the day, we just don't want her stressed out. Doesn't matter why she's stressed out. She's stressed out, so don't stress her out.

[Caller Haley]

See, I know, and I think I'm having a hard time with that because I am the most, like, non confrontational, like, people pleasing person. So then when I am, like, obviously.

[Nick]

Being a. I'm like, you're not being a. Like, you're not. You're just like, you know, you're not being a. But you, you're allowed to whatever you want, man. Just like, yeah, spoil yourself, but don't let what you're doing. You're doing the thing that's the worst, which is like, you're not communicating what you want and then you're reacting to how people are doing things and you're letting that bother you and they're just kind of. They're doing their thing. She's like, I'm posting a picture. I'm an excited grandma. I made stupid T shirts. Whatever. Yeah, I mean, like, she booked a ultrasound, which is a little ridiculous. And the fact that she just assumed that you would show up for a doctor's appointment that you didn't have to go to is. Yeah, that's a little nutty. But that's also. You can just chalk it up for excitement. And again, don't go, don't go to things you don't want to go to. And it's your husband's job to be like, yeah, to tell. To communicate that. I want him to be like, all right, we're not going to this. I'll just, I'll tell her, you know, whatever. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. I got it. Like, yeah, we're not. I don't want to go to, you know, we're not. She's not up for a photo. Like, photo shoots are like, later.

[Caller Haley]

Well, and like, I'm like, I'm not even really showing yet. So what.

[Caller Veronica]

What's the photo?

[Nick]

She's just excited. She's just excited.

[Caller Veronica]

I know.

[Caller Haley]

I just, I think I obviously am more like anxious because I'm like, well, because I like, we've never had conflict with her, and so I've never. There's never been a reason for, like, my husband to like, have to, like, stand up to her. But I think I'm just, like, anxious, like, going forward. Like, if there were something where I was like. Like, hey, like, we're. We don't want to do that.

[Nick]

Here's the thing.

[Caller Haley]

Wouldn't stand up for me.

[Nick]

Like, here's the thing. In the next nine months or plus or whatever, even after the baby shows up, you don't need a reason. That. That's kind of the beauty of it. I don't want to do it.

[Caller Haley]

I guess I just haven't thought why.

[Nick]

Because I don't feel like it. I'm tired. I'm growing a child. I don't want to do it. I don't have a reason. That's too much energy to come up with a reason. I'm too fucking tired. I'm pregnant. You know? Like, that's. That's. That's all you need. All right, so just, like, just tell them what you want and just. Yes, I'm. I think to communicate that to your husband, to say, listen, I. You know, all I care about right now is us. And. And could you just help? I want to make sure we have a little bit of stress, and every once in a while over the next nine months, I'm gonna ask. I'm gonna want to do things, and I'm gonna not want to do things, and I can. You just have my back, whether you. You agree with it or not. Just. Just be my emotional. Like, that's your husband's job, is to be your emotional filter from. From the outside world. He's the one who's like, I don't. I don't. She's pregnant. Leave her alone. We don't want to do it. I don't care. You know? And then when it comes to his mom, his mom's just excited and I'm hoping and assuming that she just needs to be like, hey, she's not right now. Chill out, Mom. Yeah, that you're being a little much. Mom. He doesn't have to, like, put her on her place. He just needs to be okay. You just have to. You have to get good at saying, I don't feel like doing that.

[Caller Haley]

Yeah, that's a big problem is I let people like, I have always been like this. I will talk my. And I'm like, and I would never do that. But then the second it happens, I'm like, yes, of course. Anything for anybody, because I'm such a people pleaser.

[Nick]

You're pregnant. He's pregnant. You just.

[Caller Haley]

See, I appreciate your stance, though. Because I, I know, like, for me right now, I'm like, like, and someone needs to say something to her. Like, how dare she? And I. Obviously my sister is going to be like, yeah, exactly, put her in her place. But like, it's really good to hear, like, your side of it.

[Nick]

But she has no. Yeah, there's no place for her to put in. She's just an excited grandma who doesn't know any better. And she's just annoying you a little bit.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah, that's.

[Nick]

And all you have, all you have to do is say no. Yeah, like, you don't even know if she's gonna react. You know what I'm saying? Like, I know, for all you know, she might be like, yeah, I guess that was a little nuts. End of story. Yeah, like, I don't, I'm too tired to go to. I don't, I don't, I'm too tired to go to a doctor. I don't want to go to a Photoshop. I'm tired. I don't know, can we do it later? I'm tired. I don't want to do it. That's all. You got to practice. And if.

[Caller Haley]

Because in my head I like, see it obviously I get like a one track mind and I'm like, and she's doing this, and she's doing this and she's trying to take over my pregnanc. See? And like, that's why, like when I wrote in, I'm like, and she's a monster. Like, I get so like one track minded that it's all I think about. Which obviously, like, I am very hormonal right now. So it is all I've been thinking about.

[Nick]

Yeah. But yeah, you got one job and that is to like, take care of your body, take care of your emotional, like, minimize your stress. That's.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller Haley]

There's no reason for me to be stressed out about this.

[Nick]

That's all you have to do is you can. But you blame it. You know, if you need a reason is like, stress is a terrible thing to have during pregnancy. And you, and you have that card to play for nine months. Don't stress me out. I don't want to be stressed. Why? I'm pregnant. All right? Shut the up. That's that simple. You get to be so unreasonable right now. I mean, don't, don't, don't. You don't, like, don't overplay your hand. Like, but you're trying not to be, you know, you can, you know, and you have the benefit of not feeling Guilty about it.

[Caller Haley]

No. That makes me feel a lot better because I think when I first brought it up to my husband and he was like, I don't really, like, understand where you're coming from, but okay, like. And so I was like, he doesn't understand me. Like, I'm just being crazy. And like. So then I got mad at him and he's completely like, I don't understand what's going on. Like, it was just some pictures.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Haley]

But if, like, if you want me to say something, like, okay. I was like, well, it's already done.

[Nick]

All right, listen, I think you're. You're working through. This is a. You know, is your. Is this your first pregnancy?

[Caller Haley]

Yes.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Veronica]

So it is.

[Nick]

Give yourself some grace. But I do think you and your husband should sit down and just talk about what you guys want out of this pregnancy. How do you want. And be on the same page with him and just like. And say, the only thing I really need from you is. And I'm just gonna say thank you now because at times I might ask things in the moment probably don't make sense. I don't know. I'm kind of going through a lot right now. I don't know how my body's gonna feel tomorrow. Help. Help me deal with my stress. And if I don't wanna do something because, like, my grandma or my parents are asking something. Let's just have my back when I don't want to do something.

[Caller Veronica]

Okay. Yeah.

[Nick]

And I don't, you know. Yeah. As long as he doesn't make you feel guilty, then that's fine.

[Caller Haley]

Yeah, no, he never. He very much is a, like, go with the flow kind of person. So that's why, like, when his mom says stuff, he's like, oh, yeah, sure. Like, she's just excited. And I like, in the back of my mind, I'm like, like, what?

[Caller Veronica]

Why would. Why would you do that?

[Caller Haley]

But I don't say no. So then it, it's really my.

[Nick]

You have to learn your fault. But yeah, you say no. This is a great. This is a great opportunity for practice not being a people pleaser if there's no better time.

[Caller Haley]

And I think, honestly, like, I have been anxious because, like, I know that obviously a different situation. But like, my mom had like a rough relationship with her mother in law because, like, like, she. My grandma's very bossy and my mom was a people pleaser. And so she would get, like, have hard feelings toward her and she would never know. So then I like, start thinking and I'm like, oh my gosh, like I'm gonna be 50 years old and still not like my mother in law. When like, this is the only problem I've ever felt. Like we've had a great relationship up until.

[Nick]

Great.

[Caller Haley]

I got pregnant. So I think I just have been like reading way too much into it.

[Nick]

That's normal. You're in the driver's seat, but not only forget about you being pregnant, but like your relationship with your mother in law. Say no when you want to say no. If you don't want to do something, don't do it. Try it out. See how mother in law responds. Don't have to make a whole meal out of it.

[Caller Haley]

Yeah, no, I mean, what's the worst, what's the worst that could happen? They'll think I'm being a, like.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Haley]

Well, that's great perspective because I obviously haven't had someone just have a different opinion than me. So I feel like this really like brings my anxiety levels down because it's not like I need to be like, delete pictures and whatever.

[Nick]

No, you just need to get better at just saying, hey, I don't. Could you, can you just not do that next time or, or again, like, it's just like, this is how we want to handle our pregnancy. I mean, who's going to be in the room with you?

[Caller Haley]

I don't think I want anyone in.

[Caller Veronica]

The room with me.

[Nick]

Great. Get that out there fairly quickly.

[Caller Haley]

I have already said something because my older sister, like, she very much like, wanted me in the room and wanted my mom in the room. So like I've already told them, which, like my family is very understanding and they know that I'm more like private and like to myself. So they already have been like, we'll be around if you want us, but like, we don't expect to be in the room.

[Nick]

So perfect. Love that. And that's just kind of the thing. That's the general, the general energy. But like, and if it's not good, that's their problem. I don't know.

[Caller Haley]

I've been trying to like, tell myself that like, if they have a problem with how I feel, that's not my problem.

[Nick]

You are, this is your family, your husband, your child. You, you, you are creating a new family. You know what I'm saying? You guys are starting new rules, right? Like, think about it though. Like, when I was a kid, it was my parents family, right? A lot of brothers and sisters and my parents would host Christmas and all the holidays and their siblings sometimes would or wouldn't show up or my grandparents would or wouldn't show up, you know, and things like that. But my parents created a family and the world revolved around their family, right? And then like, we're used to that growing up and like, you know, but like, this is your family. You're starting new traditions and like maybe grandmas and grandmas show up or not, but like this is your family. So act accordingly. Make new rules set, you know, like it's young, right? Because right now you're still like, you probably go to your parents house for the holidays still and that's fine, right? But someday that's going to change. You guys are going to be hosting the holidays. It's going to be your family, your rules, how you guys do things. It starts with conversations between you and your husband. People will just get in line or they won't get in line or whatever. Like, but it's your family and you're going to only want to spend time with your baby and your husband. And like, people are going to be wanting, knocking on your door to get that access. So like again, don't become like this monster of dripping with power because it's your family and they everyone. But you know what I'm saying? Like, but you're, you got to see it that like this is. Start creating a life for yourself. Start creating your rules with, around your family and, and youth dictate terms and you know, when do you do?

[Caller Haley]

December 29th.

[Nick]

December 29th. Yeah, my point exam. Exactly. You just be like, you know what? We're not going anywhere for Christmas. Leave us alone. I'm due. I'm like, you know, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Like, and you and your husband might have your first Christmas alone with each other, like kind of nesting and getting ready for your child and things like that. And you might just be like, you're not invited, needed. We're not. And we're not showing up. And that is okay because it's your family, right? They. It's not their family anymore.

[Caller Haley]

I know. I think I really need to start becoming better at saying I know and not being so much of a people pleaser. And then I feel like the rest.

[Nick]

Will fall into place and promise they'll live. They'll take what you're. You're. They'll take what they can get. All right. You feel better?

[Caller Haley]

I do. I feel a lot better.

[Caller Veronica]

Thank you.

[Nick]

All right. Right. Well, congratulations. Enjoy. Like, just no stress. Your only job is to not do what you don't want to do. That's literally your only job. Take care of yourself, take care of your child, and don't do what you don't want to do. There's too many things you have to do that you have no choice because you're pregnant. So when it comes to things that you have the option to do or not do, don't do what you don't want to do.

[Caller Veronica]

You're right.

[Caller Haley]

I'll be listening to that in the back of my head from here on out.

[Nick]

All right, take care.

[Caller Veronica]

Okay, well, thank you for having me on.

[Nick]

My pleasure. Thanks for the call.

[Caller Veronica]

Thank you.

[Nick]

All right, bye. Bye.

[Caller Veronica]

Bye.

[Nick]

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[Nick]

How's it going?

[Caller Veronica]

Hi Nick. My name is Veronica. I'm 32 years old and I recently realized that in the face of tragedy, I have no friends.

[Nick]

All right, well tell me what do you mean in the face of tragedy and what do you mean by no, no friends?

[Caller Veronica]

Without getting too deep into it, just this past January I lost my, my 8 year old nephew to complications after surgery. And it's been about six months now, but after that like I really just had nobody, I thought who was like my friend, reach out, check in on me, say hey, how are you doing? How's your family? Just really just have felt completely alone in this when I know I'm not alone.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Caller Veronica]

It's just I don't have anybody other than like my family who's also going through it.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Veronica]

About it.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Caller Veronica]

And I'm feeling really hurt.

[Nick]

Okay, that makes sense. So just kind of just recapping. You had obvious. And I'm very, very sorry for. I mean it's devastating.

[Caller Veronica]

The worst.

[Nick]

Truly devastating. Yeah. And in that devastation over the past several months, there are people in your life you kind of assumed at some point would reach out or offer a shoulder to cry on or just a sounding board for you to vent. And that didn't really happen the way you kind of hoped or expected it would. And that makes you feel very lonely.

[Caller Veronica]

I've always been the type of person who would reach out to or my friends when something happens. I know something happened like one of my really close friends. A few years back, her brother in law passed away pretty suddenly and I showed up for her. I was there at like the viewing. I was there for, you know, I ran and got the dinner for the family after the. Their like little funeral service and checked in on them months afterwards just making sure that her husband was okay and she was okay. It just really. It was not reciprocated.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Veronica]

In this event. And it's just.

[Nick]

So you have at least one particular friend in mind that you were hoping to receive this?

[Caller Veronica]

I have two really close girlfriends that I thought out of even just like minor acquaintances who would re. Who I thought would be there and be understanding.

[Nick]

And have you communicated this with those people? Just the.

[Caller Veronica]

I have it just because I am a people pleaser and I don't want my burdens to be placed on other people. And I know that, that it's kind of counterintuitive.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Veronica]

Expect people to be there, but you're not asking people to be there because you don't want to burden them with your things going on in your life.

[Nick]

Well, what you're saying doesn't make sense. In a way, you do want to burden them.

[Caller Veronica]

I want.

[Nick]

Well, you want them to step up. Yeah. Yeah. It's like when you, when, when the friend who, whatever friend you talked about. Right. That had the, the tragedy that you showed up for. I'm not saying it was a burden for you, for, you know, and I'm guessing you, you did it with love. The way in your mind is you went out of your way to show up for that person. Right. You, you went out of your way to go to a funeral or awake or, and, or, or you took the time to, to listen to your friend when you, I guess could have been doing something more fun, you know, or more enjoyable.

[Caller Veronica]

I was married with a child at the time and I could have been home with my husband and my daughter.

[Nick]

There you go. Right. And so I guess what I'm saying is that. And objectively speaking, there was a little bit of burden there that you took up. Right.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Right. And which is part of the reason why now that the roles are reversed that you, you do want, you don't. You do want to burden them, so to speak. Right. Like it's weird saying it out loud, but I think sometimes we just have to acknowledge, you know, because you're, you're kind of taught, you're emotionally, you're kind of talking out both sides of your mouth and you're not doing anything about it. And then the Only result is it makes you feel really shitty inside. It's like.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah, that's what I mean by it being, like, counterintuitive. Like, I want. I want to have them to talk to. But I know that by me not being like, hey, can you listen? Like, it's not a fair thing to do.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Veronica]

But I don't know, because now that it's been, you know, six months, like, is it too late to, like, bring it up and be like, hey, in January, like, I really needed you when you weren't there?

[Nick]

Well, it's never too late. I mean, depending on assuming that you still want to be friends with these people.

[Caller Veronica]

Like, it's hard for me because my daughter was also. My nephew passed. They were best friends. So, like, I carry her burden and her grief. And obviously it was my sister's son who passed away. I carry her burden. I carry her grief as much as I can. We don't live super close to each other.

[Nick]

What do you mean by Carrie?

[Caller Veronica]

I just, you know, just really try to make sure that I'm there especially for my daughter, who's only sick. I let her cry into me and I say, okay, like, give all of your, like, all your sadness to Mommy. Like, mommy will take care of it.

[Nick]

But what. I guess. What does that mean to you when you say that?

[Caller Veronica]

Like, I just don't want something to hurt.

[Nick]

Yeah. Again, I understand. Like, maybe that's something you're saying to your daughter, but it almost sounds like you're. If you are holding you, you have to have. You have to be able to release this. Right. And it's almost sounds like, all right, you're. You want to be there for your sister, you want to be there for your daughter, you want to be there for your family. And you have decided to take this up and do this as, like, this act of love, this act of service for the people that you love most in your life. And gee whiz, like, why. Why can't you just ask a little bit from your friends who didn't. Honestly, like, you know, while they. You hope they have empathy for, you aren't feeling this pain that you feel because of this loss that your family incur incurred. Right. Is that essentially kind of how you're feeling?

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

I mean, first, it's just, like, natural that you're feeling this way, and it makes a lot of sense, I think. I don't know if this is going to help at all, but, I mean, friendships are very fleeting. And in those fleeting friendships, I think as we get older, we Realize how special family is, you know, family, you, you know, like, what's the. What's the common saying? You don't get to choose your family, you get to choose your friends. Right. Oftentimes we enjoy the company of our friends more than we sometimes enjoy the company of our family, because again, we don't really choose our family. But as friendships go, they can be temporary. They can be. You know, friendships are often formed, especially in adulthood, because they fill in a need, you know, and sometimes that need is more temporary than we realize. And there's not the bond that there's not this art. Natural bond that comes with family like this. This is my blood, you know, that. That connect. You feel connected to these people that are family even when they drive you nuts, you know, and things like that. And so I think it's very common to often feel like this with various friends. I think we have to be careful not to make the mistake of, well, I was willing to do this for my friends, so they should want to do it for me. I think that's normal. I also think when you're dealing with death and things like that, that not to make excuses for your friend. And I'm not saying this is the reason I don't know these friends or you or really your relationships, but like, people get real funny when it comes to how they deal with death. Most people are lucky enough to not have had to deal with any real significant tragedy in their life. Like you've just had to face other than make the loss of a grandparent or a. A great uncle or something like that.

[Caller Veronica]

That.

[Nick]

And so when stuff like this happens, like, people just don't know what to say. They don't know what to say or do, you know?

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah, yeah, I definitely feel. I understand that feeling as well. Even though, you know, I am part of the family, I, you know, love my nephew like he was my own. Even, like, sometimes with, you know, my sister and her husband, like, I really don't necessarily know how to show up for them.

[Nick]

Yeah, you don't know if. Is today the day they want to hear from you? Is today the day they. They don't want to talk about it? You never really know. And you have to be flexible or nimble with, like, you know, it's just like, hey, they may be feeling a certain way today. So I don't really know, like, it's your sister. So you, again, being an empathetic person, you're pushing through that discomfort with your sister to be there for her because you just know she's your sister, you, you know, like it's your family. You just, you know, you have to show up.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

When it comes to these friends, again, I don't know what they know or they don't know. I don't know how. If you've communicated just how hard it's been for you. Sure. Certainly, like. Yeah. Is it disappointed your friends didn't show up for you? Of course. But I, Yeah. I think in these situations you're doing yourself a disservice because here's when you called in, you know, your, your first thing you said is like, in the face of adversity, I realized I have no friends. That's a very heavy statement to say I have no friends. And I'm like, oh my God. Like this person's alone. And then 30 seconds in, in 30 seconds in, you're. I find out you have a husband, you have a daughter, you have a sister, you have a brother in law, you have a family. But I think our perspective very much matters. I mean, if there's one thing, you know, if there's one consistent thing I talk about, regardless of, if it's this type of call where you're calling in, that's very unique about like this very tragic loss and friendships versus, like someone who calls in, struggling with the dating situation, you know, they're dealing with a fuck boy or whatever, and it's just like, I don't know what to do. And it's like the, but the stakes, you know, seem a little bit lower than what you're dealing with. Yeah, I'm always. It's all really just about your, our perspective. How do we approach a situation, how honest are we being with ourselves about this situation? Are we painting a picture that's making it more difficult than it is, you know? Listen, you have everything, every right to feel sorry for yourself right now. I mean, this is a terrible situation your family is going through. So it makes sense to like, sit in this pain. Right.

[Caller Veronica]

I feel it every day.

[Nick]

Yeah. And so, yeah, I've been you. I know what it's like to want more from friends. I mean, we all know what it's like to show up for people and have those same people not show up for us. It's an icky feeling. And this is like this situation you're going through. It's the time and when you really need someone, you know, like, it's just like, my God.

[Caller Veronica]

That's the thing. I, I know I have like, my mom and I talk every day, you know, and you know, we cry about it, but I don't want to always just cry about it with my mom, you know, Like, I want her to not to go a day. What about feeling this loss of her grandson?

[Nick]

Therapy or. Where is therapy included in. In. In any of this?

[Caller Veronica]

So funny thing. My sister also always tells me I need to go to therapy.

[Nick]

Yeah, I mean, this is.

[Caller Veronica]

And I've tried therapy in the past, and it's. You know, it's something that's more looming now than it was before. But I've sat through, like, session after session of going through, like, I have some heavy childhood trauma as well, and I feel like I just sit there and I'm the only one who's talking, but I'm not given any tools as to. Okay, well, how to help me get through, like, when I'm having a really, like. Yeah, depressive, tight manic thing. Episode.

[Nick]

Well, you know, finding a good therapist is a little bit like dating. Yeah, there is that. Not all therapists are created equal. So if you are investing in therapy and you don't feel like you're getting something out of it, maybe that's a sign to try someone else. More like, as far as this particular situation, one, like, you've heard me talk, like, I. I think therapy in general is a positive thing, assuming that you can find someone you connect with. I think therapy in general, when treated like a bicycle helmet rather than reconstructive surgery, is a positive thing for you in this particular situation. We're talking reconstructive surgery here, right? We're. We're talking. How do you pick yourself up from this tragic loss? But I will say, when it comes to the most out of therapy, if you're just kind of going into, like, maintenance, be like, well, you know, I don't really have, like, a ton of, like, problems. I mean, there's general anxiety I deal with every day. And, like, sure, like, open up, you know, and then you can go into therapy. Yeah. But, like, you can be a little bit more intentional. Like, right now, you need someone who's not your sister, who's not your mom. Your friends would be nice if, for no other reason, you felt like they were showing up for you. But they're also not therapist. And there's only so much they can say. So to speak. Speak or know what to say. But a therapist, a good one that you feel safe communicating with, could just be the person you just kind of let all that, you know, if you're gonna quote, unquote, let your daughter and let your sister and let your mom Push all their pain on to you. Then maybe you hire a therapist to like dump it all on them. You know, just to vent, to get it out, to just to just talk, to just, you know, you can say whatever the you want in therapy to just. I'm angry. I don't know why I'm a, maybe you're just like, I don't, it sounds crazy. I'm mad at my sister. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? Like in therapy you have the, you have the benefit to just vent and get it off your chest and just, and then have hopefully a therapist to like just kind of have a guard rails that like if you say something a little out of pocket to unpack that or just question so you know, you don't go totally off in the left field with your emotions and it's kind of process it and just kind of get it out because you are holding on to a lot of pain, a lot of toxicity that I think you just kind of need to get off your chest. If you happen to find some, a therapist that you connect with that you feel like, all right, well, that just, I feel if nothing else a little lighter after like venting for the past 15 minutes with this therapist, maybe there's, maybe you can unpack some childhood trauma right now. Maybe the, that's not the goal with therapy right now. The goal is to just work through this current trauma. You know, how do you, how do you get things off your chest and how do you cry without, you know, with your therapist so that you don't, you're not, you don't feel like right now you don't want to cry around your sister, you don't want to cry your own mom, you don't want to cry around your daughter because you don't want to burden them with your tears. You want to be, you want to be strong, you know, and that's great, but you need to, you need to let that out somewhere and you, you hope that it's your friends, but right now your friend, you know, your friends don't know what to say or do. I do think, listen, I think it would be more than fair and I think you should find the way to communicate to your friends to say I want. I think it starts by giving them some grace. Listen, I, I, I, I assume that you just didn't know what to do. But like I just, I really needed a friend and I guess I was just a little bummed that I just felt like I didn't hear from you. You Know, I want you should give them some grace to. To say, I didn't really know what to say or do and allow them to say, well, water under the bridge. But I. Can you try to be. I. I would love to hear from you. Can you check in on me? You have to sometimes tell people how they can around death because people are just like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do in this situation, you know, and so taking it in.

[Caller Veronica]

I. I definitely understand what you're saying.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Caller Veronica]

I think I just. I have a hard time with that. I don't.

[Nick]

It's also just a very dangerous thing too.

[Caller Veronica]

I don't want to. It's one of those things where it's like, I don't want to. I don't such a wife thing to say. I don't want to ask you for help. I want you to know I help.

[Nick]

You know, like, I know, but these, these friends. These friends, you should know that.

[Caller Veronica]

You should be there for me as a friend.

[Nick]

Totally. But I think we also have to be a realistic. Yeah, I think we only. We only have so much room in our lives for very intimate and special relationships. And. And despite how you're feeling right now, it sounds like you have a lot of A very wonderful intimate and special relationships. Yeah.

[Caller Veronica]

Like eunuch. I come from a very large family.

[Nick]

So, you know, but more importantly, and that's just a bonus point, you have your daughter, you have your. Your part, your. Your spouse, you know, and those are the most important right now, you know, or. Or should, or you know, certainly your daughter. And I guess what I'm saying is just like friendships are. Are nice to haves at this stage in your life, but. Yeah, it's just more like. I forget what you said.

[Caller Veronica]

But like, like being a wife, like, I want you to just know.

[Nick]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. So like I just like, that's the job of your husband, so to speak, or your daughter.

[Caller Veronica]

So. Good.

[Nick]

That's what I'm saying. It's just like. So there's only so many people in your life. I think we get to say this person should instinctually know what I need and want. They're around me enough, they know who I am. Our friends, like maybe. Maybe when we're in college or we're in our early 20s and our friends really are kind of our romantic partners. You know, when I was a single guy and it was just me and my boys and we were. We just assumed we were hanging out right There wasn't like, what are you doing this weekend? It was like, I'm gonna hang out with my guys this weekend. We just. We spent every day together. We would go to dinner together. We would go to movies together. We'd play video games. I mean, you know, like, there's an int. There's an intimacy there with friends. And then you meet.

[Caller Veronica]

Some of my sisters did say, because I didn't. I didn't go to college. I didn't go off to, like, university or anything. I did some classes at a community college. My sister did say. She's like, if you went away to school, like, you would probably have these deeper friendships with people.

[Nick]

Like, I don't know, maybe. Maybe not.

[Caller Veronica]

My other sister, not the one who lost her son, but my other sister, like, she had friends flying from Texas. Like, she had all these people show up, and I'm just, like, standing in this room alone with no friends who showed up. And I know that's a lot of comparison.

[Nick]

It is. It is.

[Caller Veronica]

Her friends knew what she needed.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Veronica]

My friend friends clearly did not.

[Nick]

Yeah. I don't know who your sister is or just your sister's personality versus yours. Maybe your sister is a more direct. Maybe your sister's less of a people pleaser.

[Caller Veronica]

I don't know. We're born and raised Catholic, so we do.

[Nick]

You know, I was born and raised Catholic. I'm not a people pleaser.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Nick]

You know, I don't think you couldn't have been raised more Catholic than me.

[Caller Veronica]

You'd be surprised, Nick. You would be surprised.

[Nick]

I. I would go toe to toe with anyone. I. I was. My parents were introduced by Catholic priest. I was. Grew up around priests and nuns. We said the rosary is a family even in car rides. Oh, yeah.

[Caller Veronica]

I used to go on nun runs with the.

[Nick]

With a priest and, well, at least we tied. I could not have been raised more Catholic. I'm just saying that. Really. But the comparison is a thief of joy. Right? And you're spending a lot of time painting. You're taking a very trag right now, and you're honestly making it worse on yourself. Like, this is not the time to take an inventory of how many cool friends or great friends you've been able to collect in your life. You know, I know this is not the time to make.

[Caller Veronica]

I got rid of social media. I deleted the apps off my phone and stuff because I just found myself sitting and comparing my life to others. And you have a great life.

[Nick]

Two friends right now that you expected a little bit more than you got, and it hurt your feelings. And that's normal and that's valid. And you have the right to feel the way that you do. It doesn't make them bad people, doesn't even make them bad friends. They just like, didn't show up the way you needed them to. But you definitely need to communicate that somehow in a way that gives them a little bit of grace and gives them an opportunity to say, I'm sorry, I didn't do that. And while I hope you don't have to face this type of tragedy, like I would like to like, make things right and just know that I do, you know, whatever, or you find out that like, I don't know, maybe the. Just, I don't know, you've grown apart. Friends grow apart. You know, like friends come and go, you know, if, if you are. If we're lucky enough to have lifelong friends in addition to having a happy marriage and a beautiful family and kids that take up a ton of our time and energy and require emotional support, all in all aspects of life, you know, and we're lucky enough to maintain pain, long lasting friendships. That's, that's. Yeah, you're really dealing with a full deck there, you know what I'm saying? Like, I have a couple friends I've, I've been friends with since middle school. We've definitely like lost touch. I don't. The same. You know, these were guys who I was hanging out with every day. Like, I don't know, I might not talk to them for a couple months. I don't know if they're telling me every intimate thing that's happened in their life. And honestly, I don't know if I've shown up in the way they expected me to. I consider them my close friends. But like, I got a wife now, I got a daughter. I have employees, I have a business to run. I have my family to take care of. I don't. Yeah, I don't have time, you know, and that's the cold, hard truth of it, you know, but like your value isn't, you know, and I'm. It sounds like the way you talk, honestly, you kind of remind me a little bit of my mom sometimes. And a little bit like my mom was an. The only daughter. She had all brothers. She got pregnant early in her life. She also didn't go to college. I think my mom didn't have sisters and I think she's always had a hard time having, you know, she's always wanted to have friends and I think because of her life and her life choices and, and all the other Things going on in her life. I think that's the one thing in her life she's kind of struggled to make. She's had friends in her life come and go, but again, like, part of it is just like she's, she's a mom of 11 and she's a great mom and she's an active mom and she's, and she's a great wife and, and just like how much time do we have to invest? Like, you have to invest in these relationships that flourish and I like, you don't have. How much time do you have to really make these friendships that are really rocking you and rocking your sense of self worth? Like, how much time do you really have for these friendships right now?

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah, that's very true. No, I think the way you described your mom is very similar to myself. I've always had a hard time with friendships, but I think a lot of that goes back to childhood trauma rooted in that. But another day.

[Nick]

I think when it comes to the average people pleaser, that's the biggest mistake they make because I think we all and every. You, like, you need your husband to expect things from you. Your husband needs. Needs to ex you to expect things from him. I don't know how you are with your husband. I'm assuming you're probably less of a people pleaser with him than anyone else.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah, right.

[Nick]

Right. Well, and that's, you know, because, like, people need to know what, what do you want from me? You know, I don't read. You know, it's like, sure, yes, you want people to show up, but you gotta, you gotta tell people what you want. Even at the risk of finding out maybe they're not the friends you thought they, they were. But you're gonna find that.

[Caller Veronica]

I think that's what I'm scared about. Like, I'm scared. Yeah, well, rock it about and say, hey, why weren't you there? Like, I needed you. And I know I didn't communicate that well or at all and, well, what's.

[Nick]

The worst that can happen?

[Caller Veronica]

I truly feel like I have no friends. If they get upset, if they say, well, I had things going on in my life, like, I'm sorry that that wasn't the most important thing.

[Nick]

Well, I mean it as, as a, as a, as a wife, as a mom, as a sister, as a daughter. What do you want for yourself at this stage in your life? Like what, what do you have time.

[Caller Veronica]

For a phone call every now and then, you know?

[Nick]

Yeah, and that's, that's nice.

[Caller Veronica]

Somebody I don't feel like I can like somebody. I feel like I can just talk to and I know, I know it's like, oh, well, that's what therapy is for. You talk to a therapist about it. But I just feel like, at least in my experience, the therapists I've talked to have all been very like cold and I do all the talking and I'm like, I need help trying to figure out how to.

[Nick]

I mean, what, you're just my emotions? Well, yeah, one, again you maybe just find a therapist you connect with a little bit better. But two, you're right. Therapy and friendship are not the same. Like you're, you know, it's like, like there's very two different things you're getting out of these relationships. I think, you know, back to the therapy thing, there's just some unloading. That sounds like you need to do that. Like a friend might not be equipped to do that. Like, just might be helpful in terms of like having the empathetic friend who just was like, I don't know what to say, but I love you and I'm here for you and like let's get you out of the house and like let's get your mind distracted and let's go have some fun. Like that's a friendship. And I understand that you, you desire that. But again, one, you have to, you have to put yourself out there to the extent of like people can't. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this, like you have to help yourself out a little bit and even at the risk of being rejected, you have to be a little, it's, it does sound like you have some like trauma you haven't unpacked from childhood that like this, there's this 16 year old girl or 12 year old girl inside of you that is just like the idea of finding out someone doesn't want to be friends with you is like emotionally devastating. Devastating for you. You have to work through that because now as a 32 year old woman who's a mom, who's a dog, who's a daughter, who's a, who's a wife, you don't really even have time for the type of friendships that you have convinced yourself that you desperately need in your life. And you have to be realistic that at this stage of your life some friendships will come and go and they might just serve their purpose. I mean I, I just, there's just a lot of front. I think back in my life life, you know, those, the two friends I talked about, I've Been friends since in middle school. But like, when it came to, you know, I was. I think I've. As a young man, I. I always like befriended like older women I worked with or like, who are acquaintances in my life that like, yeah, that were. They were interested enough in my life maybe because they were just like living vicariously through me. And I was like, you know, I had girl problems or what I thought, and they just. I thought it was fun. And again, nothing like is in terms of what you're dealing with, but like, yeah, I made close friendships with some of these women and like for periods of time there were like these people in my life that I, you know, bonded with and like, I would really go for advice and we might like go out to lunch like at work. And it might be to me and like two other women who had been like, I just. Can I pick your brain on something? And they were really empathetic and they, they, they made me feel like they came scared. I don't even know what these women are up to in these. I haven't, I haven't talked to them in 15 years for sure. You know what I'm saying? Like, they served this purpose in my life. I moved on. I left the job and you know, like, it's like we weren't going to stay in touch. But sometimes our friendships, like, are just that they're. They're meant to be temporary, but they can still serve a purpose. Some of these conversations I had with these women were I was more open and more vulnerable and just more honest than I had ever been with any of my brothers. Grows, you know what I'm saying? And so they sometimes come and go. And I think you just have to be okay with that and accept that and not, you know, not lose sight of like you're taking a little bit for granted your family. And maybe that's a product of.

[Caller Veronica]

I know. Yeah, I know. 110. I have, hands down, the best, like my husband, my sisters, my mom, my dad. Like, I have a great family. I do not take them for granted at all. I tell them every day I love them. Like every time I talk to them, I let them know how much I care for them.

[Nick]

No, I know.

[Caller Veronica]

I just wish that I did think.

[Nick]

Had somebody like, they're your friends too. They're, you know. Sure. But you have to be willing to ask. You know what I'm saying? Like, I just. Yeah, you're a lot like my mom in that regard. You know, it's just like you, you have to like, you have to give people a guy died a little bit. Right. It's a, it's a little. I don't know how to say it, but like, yeah, you have, it's not, you're not being fair to yourself by, by looking at your sister, not knowing that every little intimate detail of the friendships that she has or how they were made or who these friends are, and then you're just looking about how they got on a plate and showed up for her. And then comparing yourself to your sister and your friends and, and then allowing that to make you, to diminish your self worth, that's just, you're not being fair to yourself. And, and, and the only thing that can change in that equation is your perspective. I think you have every right to be disappointing in your friends. I have. I think you have every right to, to have it make you sad, but you have to communicate with these people and then you just have to be willing to find out where things stand today with these friendships. Maybe you realize that it just took a little bit of better communication or maybe you, that, like, listen, they don't really have the time to show up the way you wish they would show up. But like, you're only 32. You know, I have made some really close friends, people I call my best friends. Men who stood up in my wedding I met after 32, in fact. Yeah, one, two, two guys who stood up in my wedding. Two out of the six are men I, I, I met after 35.

[Caller Veronica]

I know there's still time to make progress.

[Nick]

Friends, there's always time to make friends. You're going to make friends. If you live to your 90, you'll make friends in your 80s, you know what I'm saying? And, and some of them might, may be really special friendships. And I think you just, you know, try to look at it that way. Friends do come and go, you know, they're not, they're not blood.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah. I think also I'm a little scared because losing my nephew, like now I'm gonna lose these friendships that I did take time to like, I know, cultivate and be close with, you know, like, not gonna lose them, like, positively, like, that's also scary, you know, So I know it's a very delicate situation that I want to make sure that I handle with care because I, I love these girls. I would do any, like, anything for them.

[Nick]

Well, yeah, for me it's like, like.

[Caller Veronica]

I just, I guess I just want that in return. But not everybody's capable of doing that.

[Nick]

They're not.

[Caller Veronica]

I know that they're not.

[Nick]

Your biggest thing is. And again, that's right. It's just really right. You, you go, you go such a step. You, your problem. It sounds harsh, but I care too much. No, you, you see it as a reflection of your self worth. Like you, you see it as a reflection of, of you. There's a part of you that is like again, this 1612 year old girl, whatever that is. Like, why, Why? I don't, I don't, why don't I have friends with my sister? What's wrong with me? I guess I'm not good enough to have these types of friends. The. There, there's something going on inside of you where these, there's these, these types of voices. You're not seeing it as. My friend's gonna suck, you know, man, like what, what the hell? You know, like how, how your friends are choosing to handle this as a them problem short of you. Like, you know, you could have communicated your disappointment a little bit better and maybe they would have. For all you know, you could have saved yourself a lot of anguish and pain four months ago by calling up a friend saying, hey, I could, I really could use you right now. Can we talk? And. But you know, you just sat around the phone and waited for them to show up the same way you showed up, but they're not using you. And then you decided, you decided to say to tell yourself, well, if, if they call, I'm good enough and if they don't call, there's something wrong with me. And that's just, that's not necessarily like.

[Caller Veronica]

Something wrong with me. It's just like I just question like, why? Well, that's why not show up for me in the way that I.

[Nick]

But that again, that's what I'm saying. So like when you, why not show up for me? Right. That's very different than saying why, why, why did they choose to not care?

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah, you know, I don't think that's the case deep down.

[Nick]

Sure. But whatever. I don't, I don't know the reason. Right. But I certainly don't think there's. I, I don't think your friends, the way you are asking yourself the question is as if you're thinking that your friends were like, you know what? She doesn't deserve it. I'm not going to call. Yeah, she's not worth it, you know, I don't like her enough. Yeah, that's how you're framing the question. Like that's how you're framing it in your head. And that's why it hurts so bad because there's a part of you that's. When you are playing it out in your head of how your friends are deciding or not deciding to reach out. You're making it about how they think about you. When you see your sister's friend show up, you're framing it as they love her so much they got on a plane for her.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah. When it comes, when it, when it comes out of my mind and interpreted that way, I guess that makes sense.

[Nick]

Yeah. And it's just like, not, it's not. It's just realistic or fair. First of all, you don't know why your friends did what her friends did, what they did. They don't know why you don't know why your friends didn't do what they did. And you're. It. There's a little bit of like, there's a little. There's a little bit of. Again, I say this very lightly because you're going through a lot right now, but again of just a little bit of feeling sorry for yourself. And I'm not talking about the trauma you experience with your, Your nephew. I'm just talking about this because it sounds like this whole, you know, is a. Is a lifelong struggle that you've had this, the. Your relationship with your friends.

[Caller Veronica]

It truly is. Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah. And I think, I think there's a little bit of.

[Caller Veronica]

I'm lucky my. Yeah, I'm lucky my brother married my best friend. You know, like growing up.

[Nick]

Say that, say that, say that last best part.

[Caller Veronica]

Except I'm lucky that grow like my best friend growing up. My brother married her.

[Nick]

So your sister in law.

[Caller Veronica]

My sister in law. We have not. We don't talk as much as we used to, but I do know I can call her and talk to her about it. But she's also going through the same thing.

[Nick]

Well, I mean, you know, she lost.

[Caller Veronica]

Her nephew and well, you guys can.

[Nick]

Relate to each other.

[Caller Veronica]

She has to take care of. But she and I are very emotionally very different. Different. Sometimes hard to communicate my emotions if I, But I'm just talking about like friends.

[Nick]

If I were being hard on my mom, which I, you know, is in adulthood. And when you're younger, you just, you, you are always. Your parents can do no wrong. You're very empathetic to your parents. You. You see no flaws in your parents. You know, as I've gotten older, like, if I'm, you know, sometimes my mom can play the victim card a little bit much. Much at times.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

My mom has. Is literally a victim of situations. My mom has been a victim multiple times in her life. My mom has a lot of reasons to. To, you know, to justify some of her trauma and issues. Right. But that being said, at some point, we. In adulthood, we have to. We have to address it head on, so to speak. Speak. And at. At some point in our life, regardless of our traumas, we're faced with situations where we can take the. I'm gonna pity myself and feel sorry for myself, and I'm gonna look at the situation all the different ways where it's just like, life's not fair and this sucks. Or you can take more of a. I don't like this current situation, but I do have a lot going for me. Or you can just take more of a, you know, it's like it's a glass half over versus the glass half half empty mentality. A lot of times my mom can be a little too h. Glass half empty.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And I. Where. I think she could. She. She could do herself a favor and being a little glass half full and.

[Caller Veronica]

You know, try and work on that.

[Nick]

Sure. But I also think you could.

[Caller Veronica]

I definitely am very more. I. I do find myself especially, well, more like, in situations that have to do with me. I do feel like I'm more pessimistic versus optimistic about, like, well, maybe if these two friendship ends, it's just gonna make room for, like, two better friendships to pop up, you know, but, well, and listen, like, this is afraid of losing again.

[Nick]

What'd you say?

[Caller Veronica]

I said, I guess I'm just afraid of, like, losing again.

[Nick]

And when you say again, what do you mean?

[Caller Veronica]

Like, losing my nephew, losing.

[Nick]

Okay, but. But that. You have to. That's you not being fair to yourself. I mean, it's just. You cannot. That is not fair to yourself by comparing a loss of a friendship to the loss of your nephew. Like, what happened with your nephew is just a devastating tragedy that just sucks and it's not fair. And like, And. And. And. And. And a friend who, for whatever reason, either, like, because they just. It lo. It slipped their mind, or they just have other going on in their lives and you lost touch a little bit, and like, it's another friendship that. That like, you wish would flourish that didn't flourish, and it feels like you, you know, and that happened to you in college. It is not the same thing. And you comparing those two things is another loss. You're just not being emotionally fair to yourself, you know, Like, I mean, you're comparing a friendship not showing up to the death of your Nephew. And that's just not that those aren't, those aren't the two same things. And, and no, but you're, you're, you're telling yourself that they are, are, and that's just not fair to yourself.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah, because the relationship started. They were different. They are different. Obviously I can get over also, like.

[Nick]

Friends, friendships, you can lose. I, I said this to a caller a couple weeks ago. I have a friend currently. He's a friend. I mean, like, he, we're, we're friends. I don't talk to him all that much. He lives in Chicago, I live in la. He's a single man. I have a family. I'm busy. He's busy, whatever. But we lost touch. We lost touch so much that like I ran into him in Chicago. When I moved in Chicago. We, we ran, I ran into a bar and it was like this kind of awkward, like running into an ex girlfriend. It was like, oh, hey man, like, how's it going? And then we reconnected. Well, that took like two and a half, three years. You know, that was like a three year gap where we lost touch. We just weren't seeing things eye to eye. He. His life was going a different direction and he had to deal with his shin, I had to deal with mine. He didn't die, he didn't pass away. We certainly. He wasn't in my life for three years, but then we reconnected. Our, our, certainly our friendship's different than it was 15 years ago. 15 years ago we were out there going out all the time and playing beach volleyball and we're just like, we had nothing else to worry about but ourselves. But, and, and now like he's, he will come and visit now and then and you know, we'll catch up from time to time and when we go to Chicago, we will go out to dinner and we'll touch base, you know, and, and another friend who was part of that group that I met through that other buddy, we lost touch because like, he married someone that none of us with. I mean, the person he decided to marry was just kind of like, she just would, she was drama. He's just in our fantasy football league. I don't really talk to him anymore. His previous wedding, I, you know, he got divorced and met someone else new. I stood up in his wedding. We were very close friends. I don't really trust his wife, so I don't deal with this person. I found out a couple days ago that he just had a, a baby through other friends. And I text this person I reached out and I was like, I haven't reached out to him in a while. I haven't heard back from him. But like, my point is, I don't know, maybe I'd never talked to him again. I don't know. But he didn't die. We lost touch. Right. Maybe we'll reconnect in the future. Life's short, but it's also not that short. It's also long in a way. You know, when it comes to friendships, I think you have just. You got some trauma there that you have to unpack, pack and, and you're really hard on yourself when it comes to your ability or inability to have certain type of friendships and you compare way too much to other relationships and things like that. Meanwhile, you, you have a husband, you have a daughter, you have all these siblings. There is only so much, you only have so much emotional bandwidth. Honestly, I don't think you have time for. And emotionally you are beating yourself up and being unfair to yourself and judging yourself in ways that I think are just unfair to yourself. And I think those are the things that you can unpack in therapy. And I think those are the things that a therapist can help change your perspective so that when you come in and you start venting, I hope that you feel a little bit better after this call.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know, where you can just talk through things objectively and a therapist can say, ah, yeah, being, you know, thank. I'm glad you got it out. That's a good cry. Talk about it. But hey, you're kind of being a dick to yourself.

[Caller Veronica]

I've always been that way to myself, so.

[Nick]

Well, we all are a little bit, but like in different reasons. But you need to be a better friend to yourself. Help yourself where you can help yourself out if, you know, just because you tried therapy once and it didn't work isn't an excuse to, to avoid it. Especially in these types of situation where you're dealing with some real trauma and you don't know how to get it out and you don't want to be a burden to all the other people experiencing trauma trauma. And instead of feeling sorry for yourself that a couple of your friends haven't showed up for you, you know, the way you want them to, in addition to the fact that you haven't really communicated a little bit of disappointment, like, maybe a therapist can help just get that out. Maybe a therapist can help say, well, I don't know, call the friend. What's the worst that can happen? Nothing can change right now. You've Painted a picture of these friendships where you've. You've literally called up and said, I have no friends. That's not true. True. And so the worst thing that could happen from you calling up these two friends and saying, hey, I'm just, you know. You know, you don't come for. You are a terrible friend. You know, you don't come hard, you know, but you just say.

[Caller Veronica]

Because I do know that they have had other things.

[Nick]

I just, like, I just. And instead of saying, you weren't there for me, you could just say, I could really use a friend right now. And if you communicate that and they still don't show up, then you're just back to where you already were, that you told yourself, which is you had no friends. But you're also. That's not even true. You. Your. Your. Your brother married your best friend. And sure, you lost a little touch, but, like, she's. I mean, she's also family now.

[Caller Veronica]

I know.

[Nick]

You know, so you're going through this terrible grief, and you're not helping yourself out. You're just. You're being a, you know, someone who was raised Catholic. You have this martyr mentality that is ingrained to you as a Catholic person. And I think that that martyr mentality of suffering through pain and putting it all on yourself, I think is something that's a. It's a little childhood trauma just by being raised Catholic that I can relate to. And I think you're just way too comfortable being an emotional martyr rather than, like, stopping that and. And stop being a dick to yourself and. And actually doing something about it, you know, and that's where, like, I know my mom was just raised to this. You know, there's a part of how my mom was raised to just. She's taught that, like, the. If you suffer through, you know, it's your gateway to heaven, you know, it's like, I guess, yeah, I have a.

[Caller Veronica]

Lot to think about. Definitely. We'll most likely reach out to them and just let them know. And again, if it ends, it ends.

[Nick]

It probably won't end. It probably won't end.

[Caller Veronica]

Like, it's just adding sadness to sadness. If it does, you know, it's.

[Nick]

It's not an end. It's just different. And I think you just have to lighten up the expectations. You have a friend. I think other than dealing with this immediate loss of your nephew, if you decide to go into therapy, I would definitely look to unpack why you have. Why you're so hard on yourself when it comes to friendships and Again, you see, as a reflection of your value. I would love for you to unpack that. My mom can have 11 kids and a pretty darn good husband, and you can still feel sorry, and my mom can still feel sorry for herself about friendships. We are all capable of. Of just focusing on what we don't have, rather than we have.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And you've gone through a terrible loss, and so I. I get it. But help. Help yourself.

[Caller Veronica]

I will definitely. I will most likely give therapy another shot just because we got to.

[Nick]

Yeah. And be patient with it. Give it some time to work. Be willing to try more than one therapist. There's a bunch of different ways to get things off your chest. It doesn't have to be through therapy. And again, like, I don't know. Make. Make.

[Caller Veronica]

I have so many notes over the last six months that I just read out to myself and, you know, just how I'm feeling.

[Nick]

Yeah, I'm fine. You know, I don't, like. It doesn't. It doesn't have to be a. A best. You know, sometimes it can be a stranger. You don't open up. I don't know. I always just. I. I, again, I made, like, these acquaintances. I made, like, work friends, and they're, you know, I don't know. I kind of enjoyed that. Just, like, I'm just gonna dump. I. You know, I'll let these women who, like, probably won't be in my life in 10 years, you know, I'll unload on them.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah. I've been. I've been burned by work friendships before, too.

[Nick]

So I'm very, like, well, again, burned is all. It just comes down with your expectations. Again, like, professionalism aside, you know, like hr. But, like, you know, again, I feel like I'm picking on my mom this episode. But, like, I always. I grew up thinking my mom was the most selfless person in the world, and she is a very selfless person. But as I grew up, I kind of realized that some. My mom isn't always doing these things out of selflessness. What my mom is doing is giving a roadmap to people of how she hopes people love her, specifically around her friends. So when she shows up for her friends, she's not. It's not the selfless act act. It is a road map of how she hopes to be treated by them. And I think you do a lot of that, too. Like, not everything you do is. Pardon me.

[Caller Veronica]

I said I think that that is a very fair evaluation of who I am without knowing who I am.

[Nick]

Yeah. And I think just being honest with that. Because, like, again, it's not that it's bad, but, like, you're. It's not this, like, because you have this narrative in your head of like, I'm always showing up for these people. I'm always selfless, and when it's my turn, they don't do this. That for me. And that. I think that's just a very false narrative that you have playing in your head. And that's just. That's something you have to work through. And that is just a narrative. It's just a. It's a. It's a point of view that you have. It's made up. It's not based off of anything substantive or, you know, there's nuance. The reality is there's a lot of nuance to these relationships. You are workshopping these relationships in your head by yourself. You're not communicating with people, people who are involved in these relationships. You are putting words in their mouth. You're putting intention in their actions without having conversations with them. And then you are attributing a sense of value to yourself, talking by work throughing it alone in your head. You're much better off just dealing, though, with the reality of the situation. And there's just a lot of nuance and, and again, none of that really has to do with your values. You. And you have to start seeing the value that you have in your life and, And. And what you bring to the table. And, you know, like, I can work on that. It's a. Listen, it's. It's a journey. It's a work in progress, you know, but, like, what I'd love for you is to. Instead of spending most of your energy in your head ruminating, finding a bunch of different reasons to convince yourself why you. You feel less than I would love for you to get out of your head. Stop complaining about who are, like, you're right. You're just like, well, I don't want to talk to them. I want to talk to them. I don't want to talk to therapists. I want to talk to my best friend. Why don't you just take what you can get? And you have a lot. You know, I do. And just get it out your friend. You know, the big thing is your friendships are not your sisters. They're not your blood. Blood. Right. And you just. You, for whatever reason you want, you want the. You want the. You want that. And I don't, you know, and it comes from somewhere, and I don't know why we don't have time to unpack it. But you know, like I said at.

[Caller Veronica]

The beginning, a Pandora's box would have been opened if we go down that road. And. And you're not a therapist.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, I know. So. So.

[Caller Veronica]

But I do appreciate you taking that time and talking to through. Like I was telling my sister's like, she's like a third party who's like.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Caller Veronica]

Not so knee deep and involved in the intricacies of everybody.

[Nick]

Well, listen, there's a lot of nosy people out there, people who love to play therapists and people who love to listen to other people's problems. So. Yeah, you just have to give some of those people a chance. You also have to be willing to. When you find out some people aren't interested in hearing your problems or listening, that you don't make it about you and your self worth for sure. You just have to recognize that everyone is a little selfish these days. Everyone's kind of like has their main character syndrome. Everyone has problems. Very few people, despite this terrible tragedy, have what you have in terms of a family. You know, there's a lot of people who truly are alone.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And you're not one of them.

[Caller Veronica]

No, I'm definitely not alone.

[Nick]

So I would really love for you to like tell yourself that and feel that constantly. And when those voices creep up in your head that want to say, I have no friends, you gotta, you gotta stop that. You gotta shut that down. You can say, listen, I had. I wish my friendships were a little different than they are now. I'm disappointed in my friends or, you know, I don't like that my friendship are more casual than I. Fine. We as we kind of unpacked you, you are literally equating your friendships to your. The loss of your nephew. And that is so unfair to yourself.

[Caller Veronica]

It is for sure. I guess I just never looked at it that way until I said it, you know. Well, it just came out.

[Nick]

That's why it's. That's why it's good to get it out and talk to someone who is objective, you know, know, like with me it's like, who gives. Who's a. Who gives a what I say? You know, I'm just. I'm not your friend. Yeah, but you know what I'm saying, I'm just like. You're right. Like you said, I'm just, I'm just some guy who like you, you're curious about my opinion and, and you probably heard me give advice to someone else. You kind of respect it a little bit. But at the End of the day, you're not. Who gives a. What I say, you know, I'm not your family. I'm not your friend. You don't have an emotional attachment to me. Me. You can quickly just be like, I don't know what the. He is a podcaster and gives a. You know what I'm saying? But, like, sometimes. And that's where a therapist can come in. Or again, you know, you just get out there and it doesn't have to be a best friend. Sometimes maybe like a support group. I don't know. Like, you are dealing with some tragedy. I'm not familiar with support, you know, but there are probably groups out there when it comes to family loss, and maybe you can make some friends through that. You know, you want to be careful about. About, like, trauma bonding and things like that, I guess. But, yeah, get out there, make new friends, you know, find different people to unload. Right now you're taking all this burden, and you're being kind of this martyr that you were raised to be, and it's. It's. It's hurting you.

[Caller Veronica]

Yeah, I don't really have much else. I. I agree with a lot of the things that you said, and I definitely will start looking for therapy again.

[Nick]

And what I want you to do the rest of their friendship. What I want you to do the rest of the day is try to, like, set this topic aside and. And just. I want you to get off the phone and say, I have friends. I have some good friends. I have. And some of those friends are family. I have a lot of meaningful relationships in my life. There are some relationships in my life that I think need work, but we'll deal with that later. But right now, I want to focus. I want you to focus on what you do have, and I need you to pick yourself back up, look in the mirror, give yourself a compliment, and take it easy on yourself. And then maybe like, later in the week, fine, explore therapy. But right now, I just want you to get out of your head. Start changing the narrative in your head about some of these negative thoughts that you have about yourself, and start being more realistic about your situation. And then let those be the repeating thoughts in your head. Head and check yourself. When you have a negative thought, just say, that's not true. I don't. I don't not have friends, but I am. I'm just a little disappointed in some of those friendships. And that's okay. That's a. That's. That. We can work on that.

[Caller Veronica]

Yes, I will try that.

[Nick]

All right.

[Caller Veronica]

Never been the affirmation type.

[Nick]

Yeah. So, yeah, we all have our ways. And I don't like. You know, you may not talk about. Say this out loud, but I know you talk a lot to yourself and you. Your head. So you do you. So just. You can. You don't have to say it out loud in the mirror. You don't. It's not like you don't have. Yeah, no, but when you are ruminating in your head and you have these, you can. You can have more positive conversations with yourself.

[Caller Veronica]

I will work with that for sure.

[Nick]

All right, well, hopefully this was a little helpful.

[Caller Veronica]

All right, I appreciate you.

[Nick]

All right, well, take care. Give us an update as things move along. I'm very sorry for your loss.

[Caller Veronica]

Thank you. Probably gotta think about that for the rest of the day, but, you know, that's how it's been the last six months.

[Nick]

I know, I know. And it's still very fresh. Yes, it's. You know, that's another thing to remember. This is shit like this takes more than six months to heal, so I.

[Caller Veronica]

Don'T know how long it's going to take. It just again, even that is another hour episode of sadness that we don't need to go down.

[Nick]

You deserve a little bit of grace for yourself and that's what I want you to work work on.

[Caller Veronica]

Thanks, Nick.

[Nick]

All right.

[Caller Veronica]

Okay.

[Nick]

All right, take care.

[Caller Veronica]

Thanks. Byebye.