E993 - Jessi Hildenbrandt, The Paper Red Carpet w/ Susie, Love Island Astrology, RHOC, RHOM & Cardi B Court

Summary

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The Viall Files - Episode E993

Jessi Hildebrandt, The Paper Red Carpet w/ Susie, Love Island Astrology, RHOC, RHOM & Cardi B Court

Date: September 2, 2025
Host: Nick Viall, with Natalie Joy, Susie Evans, Sierra, Justin, Audrey (“Not That Cosmic”) and others

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Episode Overview

This Reality Recap edition of The Viall Files is a jam-packed episode spanning red carpet moments, reality TV astrology, pop culture news, Bravo housewives drama, and a searing interview with Jessi Hildebrandt, whose family is at the center of a disturbing true crime docuseries. The hosts deliver their signature blend of pop culture dissection, personal anecdotes, witty banter, and moments of poignant reflection.

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Main Segments & Key Discussion Points

1. Pop Culture & Reality TV News Roundtable

Timestamps: 05:12–18:13

Headlines & Commentary

• Elizabeth Banks to star as Karen Reed: The team feels it's “a little soon” for a biopic but are intrigued by Elizabeth Banks’ casting (05:12–05:32).
• Ryan Murphy’s “Ed Gein” project: Discussion about infamous serial killers and Midwest lore (06:02–07:08).
• NFL trade excitement: Nick excitedly breaks news about Micah Parsons’ trade to Green Bay and shares funny ways for partners to “speak football” with their SOs (07:10–10:55).
  • Quote: “Just hit them with some of these questions and act like I didn’t tell you.” – Nick (09:29)
• Trademark drama: Jordan Hudson, Bill Belichick’s girlfriend, attempts to trademark “gold digger.” The hosts are skeptical and tongue-in-cheek (11:21–12:43).
• Cardi B courtroom spectacle:
  • Recap of Cardi B’s legal battle with a security guard and the viral “Legally Blonde”–esque court clips (13:05-18:13).
  • “She’s winning us over, though. … I’m so charmed by her that even if she was in the wrong, I’d be like, she did nothing wrong suing.” – Host 4 (16:44, 17:15)
• Notable banter: Hosts riff on sports, pop culture, and the statement “Fake it till you make it.”

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2. Red Carpet: “The Paper” Premiere, Susie Evans’ On-the-Ground Report

Timestamps: 01:51–24:55

• Setup: Susie and the team attend the Peacock premiere for “The Paper,” an Office spin-off, chronicling rookie mistakes and “learning on the job.”
  • “I honestly feel like it was a highlight of my career so far. I'm not even gonna lie.” – Susie Evans (02:26)
  • “Fake it till you make it. That's literally what I've been doing with the show, you know?” – Nick Viall (02:54)

Highlights from Red Carpet Interviews

• Approach: Playful, light banter; Susie’s awkward/friendly persona shines.
  • Touches on character development, “ick” moments at work, “cringe” in comedy, and writing for awkward TV.
  • “I think cringe is a gift.” – Interviewee, cast of “The Paper” (21:56–22:02)
• Reflections: After, Susie shares how much she learned and how exhilarating the experience was.
  • “Getting into the flow... felt like a big moment of growth for all of us.” – Susie (24:03)

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3. Love Island Astrology with Audrey / Not That Cosmic

Timestamps: 25:07–39:47

Audrey's Predictions & Astrology Analysis

• Called it: Audrey (“Not That Cosmic”) accurately predicted the fallout of the trio Ace, Taylor, and Nick on Love Island USA months earlier.
  • “When you hit it right, you hit it right. And you were definitely one of the first people online… to call this breakup.” – Nick (27:47)
  • “Honestly, the biggest issue… they're just very opposite of each other… Ace just kind of started to feel a little bit irritated with Nick, maybe.” – Audrey (29:13)
• Astrological Insights:
  • Personal planets all in opposition – different values, ways of communicating, emotional regulation.
  • “Trios always end up becoming duos at some point.” – Audrey (30:01)
• Romantic Compatibility:
  • Nick and Alandria: “They could work. My concern comes with longevity… They do just take action very differently. So that over time could cause some arguments. They call it like a tit-for-tat relationship.” – Audrey (35:31)

Social Media Blowback & Validation

• Audrey faced skepticism and flaming in comments until her predictions came true.
• “Obviously I'm not happy that they're fighting, but I was like, okay, but I was right. So, Astrologer good.” – Audrey (32:09)
• Predicts that within the next month, Nick and Alandria will either define the relationship or break up (38:59).

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4. Love Island Fallout Recap & Analysis

Timestamps: 39:47–52:56

• Sierra recaps Ace’s incendiary interview:
  • Ace blames producers for his “villain edit” and throws shade at former friends Nick and even Alandria.
  • “He’s talking out of both sides of his mouth. Like, if you’re Mr. Stand On Business and you’re keeping it real, then why, you know, doing the whole classic reality TV thing is blaming producers?” – Nick (42:37)
  • Ace questions the authenticity of Nick and Alandria’s relationship; hosts note the pettiness and possible jealousy.
• Audience Response: Alandria and Nick issue vague but telling responses on social media.
  • “It’s giving, Jealous. It’s giving, we want your brand deals… we’re only friends as long as I’m the coolest kid on the block.” – Nick (52:25)
• Notable Moment:
  • The group contemplates whether Ace and Shelly knew each other pre-villa, and the “brand deals” shade potentially harming Nick and Alandria.

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5. Real Housewives Roundup: RHOC & RHOM

Timestamps: 53:20–73:00

Real Housewives of Orange County (RHOC)

• Katie’s Lie Detector Drama:
  • Production and cast allegedly gang up on Katie, using a polygraph test to expose gossip and “lies.”
  • “Justice for Katie… that’s such a nerve-wracking thing when you know all these people hate you…” – Sierra (57:05)
  • Brief history on infamous polygraph administrator with questionable credibility (56:07).
• Show Dynamics:
  • The hosts note hypocrisy in targeting Katie for behaviors everyone engages in.
  • “They’re treating her like she is the first person to ever gossip with Kiki Monique.” – Host 4 (59:53)
  • Concerns about new cast members being scapegoated.

Real Housewives of Miami (RHOM)

• Jet-setting & Petty Drama:
  • Recap of Maribella trip, arguments over private jet invites, and general social pecking order among cast.
  • “When you throw those things around, like, it doesn’t make anybody want to hang out with you.” – Sierra on throwing around PJ access (70:20)
  • Lisa’s “divorce era” behavior and pursuit of “elegance.”
  • The episode's chaos compared to White Lotus (72:51).

Banter About “Man Ball Size”

• A running joke emerges about housewives discussing their partners’ “ball size,” which prompts a (surprisingly insightful) exchange about aging and confidence (64:40–67:27).

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6. Feature Interview: Jessi Hildebrandt (Niece of Jody Hildebrandt, “8 Passengers” True Crime Doc)

Timestamps: 77:28–133:12

Jessi’s Experience & Motivation

• On participating in the docuseries:
  • “In truly understanding how and why something to this magnitude and horror happened, you really have to understand Jody. And… there’s so much unfortunate insight that I could offer.” – Jessi (78:25)
  • Jody’s methods are insidious: “Her messaging is rather innocuous… she lures people in.” (78:25)
• Religious and familial context:
  • Powerful discussion about the role of Mormonism—and its cultural, ritualistic, and psychological impact—on enabling abuse and silencing victims.
• Personal Reflections:
  • Jessi recounts feeling complicit in their own abuse and the long-standing effects of gaslighting and manipulation.
  • “She would do this thing where she would just start throwing out accusations at you… and the moment something hits, she’ll drill into that.”
• Family Reaction:
  • Despite Jessi’s vocal warnings for years, family members dismissed or minimized their suffering; Jody masterfully controlled perceptions to destroy Jessi’s credibility.
  • “That was your experience, not mine.” – Jessi’s brother’s cold response (106:37)

Healing & Advice for Survivors

• On breaking the cycle:
  • “I by no means am finished. … Complex PTSD is a cross-chronic condition… but entering this space of ‘goodish’—allowing nuance—was incredibly helpful.” (116:09–121:45)
• On therapy (positives and red flags):
  • Cautions listeners to trust their instincts, research therapeutic modalities, and recognize that therapy isn’t always the answer for everyone.
  • “Follow your gut… if you feel bad afterward… that’s probably a sign that they may not be the right fit for you.” (123:22)
  • “She would, like, create the disease and then offer you the cure. But every time you go, you get a little bit of the cure, but more disease.” (128:23)

Notable Moment

• Jessi’s account is both a sobering warning about abusers hiding in plain sight and a testament to resilience through connection, insight, and ongoing self-compassion.

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Notable Quotes

• On faking confidence and growth:
  • “Fake it till you make it. That's literally what I've been doing with the show, you know?” – Nick (02:54)
  • “Getting into the flow... felt like a big moment of growth for all of us.” – Susie (24:03)
• On Cardi B’s courtroom charisma:
  • “I'm so charmed by her that even if she was in the wrong, I'd be like, she did nothing wrong suing.” – Host 4 (17:15)
• On “trio” friendship dynamics:
  • “Trios always end up becoming duos at some point.” – Audrey (30:01)
• On trauma and recovery:
  • “There’s moral, like, the addition of moralization to things... instead of saying there’s good people and bad people… leaving that language alone and entering the space of goodish... was so incredibly helpful.” – Jessi Hildebrandt (121:29)

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Key Timestamps for Reference

• Pop Culture Hot Takes: 05:12–18:13
• Susie’s Red Carpet Debut: 18:52–24:55
• Astrology Analysis (Audrey): 27:41–39:47
• Love Island Fallout: 39:47–52:56
• RHOC Recap & Lie Detector Drama: 53:20–62:14
• RHOM Recap & Jetset Drama: 62:15–73:00
• Jessi Hildebrandt Interview: 77:28–133:12

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Tone & Style

The episode balances playful pop-culture commentary and deep dives into reality TV drama with heartfelt, serious moments—particularly the interview with Jessi Hildebrandt. The cast’s language is candid, sometimes irreverent, and always direct—whether discussing celebrity gossip, “wide nine” football strategies, housewives' fighting, or the realities of trauma recovery.

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Takeaways

• The Viall Files remains a go-to for pop culture and reality TV enthusiasts, given its mix of hot takes, humor, and genuine candor.
• The episode shifts seamlessly from levity and wit (red carpet banter, housewives' drama, Cardi B memes) to earnest, wide-ranging conversations about trauma, therapy, and resilience.
• Jessi Hildebrandt’s segment alone is worth a listen for its insight into manipulation, recovery, and the complexities of accountability and survival.

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For full context, listen for:

• 24:03 — Susie’s reflections on her “big moment of growth”
• 30:01 — Audrey’s insight into why “trios become duos”
• 43:30 — Nick’s analysis of Ace’s reality TV villain arc
• 78:25 — Jessi on why they spoke out about Jody
• 121:29 — Jessi on the power of reframing “goodish” vs. “good/bad” in healing

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Transcript

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

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[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

You're crazy. Foreign.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap edition. Hope you all had a safe and wonderful Labor Day weekend. We certainly did. Natalie had a birthday. It was.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

What did we do again?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

We did a lot of stuff. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Well, we're recording this on the Friday before because as a generous boss, we like to give the team off on Monday. So we, we are not recording on Monday. But fear not, lots to get into. It's a jam packed episode. So much to discuss. Susie. Evan returns to the household.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Evan, you're still Evan.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

What did I say?

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Evan?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

No, this is his nickname.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

You know, we all have nicknames.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Susie return to the household. She went with the other household members. Mary, Leia, Justin. They all went to the premier of the the paper, the the spin off of the office coming out on peacock on September 4. But the household, led by Susie Evans went to the red carpet event representing the Vile Files and they had some great conversations with some really dynamic people and you will hear that momentarily. It was a lot of fun. Susie, how did it feel to be repping the Vile Files on the red carpet of the paper?

[Susie Evans]

It was amazing. Like I honestly feel like it was a highlight of my career so far. I'm not even gonna lie.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

You know, it's a highlight for this show.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

You know, that was a big moment for the show and like what better person than Susie Evans to.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Thanks guys.

[Susie Evans]

The whole, honestly, the whole team though, like we made just so many like rookie mistakes. But also we were just like I was low Key So impressed. I was like, we truly look very professional right now. Like, getting compliments left and right from other people there.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Fake it till you make it. That's literally. That's what I've been doing with the show, you know?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Susie Evans]

That's what I was like, wow, this is what. This is what it is. You just learn as you go.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

I think the worst was when I called somebody the wrong name.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

That was really bad.

[Susie Evans]

No, but everyone around us thought it was her. Like, everyone was confident and it was.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Like a blonde lady. So.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

So she. She didn't even know who she was. Or is this a blonde girl?

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, it was in the way that, like, it was a blonde lady with bangs. And, you know, it's hard to tell as, like, a blonde lady with bangs. It's hard to tell.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

You know, I actually called her Mary. I don't know what I was thinking.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, it was like, oh, my God, you're so femme.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Mary. What are you doing on that side?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

We will be getting to that momentarily and airing some clips from that moment of the show later this episode. We also have not that cosmic joining the show. Who predicted the fallout of the friendship between ace Nick and Taylor? She did a TikTok like a month or so ago and was like, hey, while all you guys are thinking this is a friendship that's going to last forever, she was predicting this fallout before anyone else saw it coming. She joins us later this episode to talk about how she came to that prediction and maybe shed some light on. Well, Nick and Alandria stay together. Do the stars align for their relationship? That is later this episode as well. And then later this episode. Many of you are familiar with the Ruby Frankie 8 passenger story. She is now in jail. It's actually a very troubling story. Very honestly, a lot of the details of the story are shocking. She went to jail along with her, I guess, partner in crime, her evil mentor, Jody Hildebrandt. There's a new documentary coming out that covers this story in great detail, and the niece of Jody is with us to talk about their experience going through this traumatic trauma. It's certainly a heavier interview given the context of the story, but we are very appreciative of Jesse and it's certainly a fascinating conversation. And if you have followed this story at all or heard about it, you are not going to want to miss that conversation. Before we get into the Love island fallout, Sierra, do we have any headlines we want to jump into?

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

We sure do. Elizabeth Banks is set to star as Karen Reed in The limited series for Prime Video. Do you think it's too soon for a biopic?

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It does feel a little soon, right?

[Susie Evans]

It does feel a little soon, yeah. But also, give it to me.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Quick turnaround, I guess.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

But I mean. And it's a huge star, so, I mean, it sounds like it's going to be a pretty big picture, right?

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

That's definitely.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Yeah, that's a.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

That's a big cast to put Elizabeth Banks.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I feel like with a biopic, though, you got to let, like, the dust settle, let people kind of forget. And then you hit them with that trailer and everyone goes, oh, my God, I forgot.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Like, I feel like maybe they're just. They're trying to just keep up with the. Because the trial, like, just ended. There was so much hype around it, you know? Like, I.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Is this like a lifetime sitch? Is this like a made for TV movie?

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

No, it's on Prime Video.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Prime Video.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Amazon.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Did you guys see the new Ryan Murphy project?

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

No.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Ed Gein.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Who's that?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Oh, another. Another infamous. He was in mind haunting serial killer. Ed Gein is one of the. He's. Yeah. A very infamous serial killer who. Who's playing Charlie. Charlie.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Charlie Hunnam.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Love him.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Now he's playing a very disturbing, dark character.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I've never heard of this man before. I was in the 70s.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

You guys should watch the David Fincher series Mindhunter starring Jonathan Groff on Netflix.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

I've watched it. Do you watch that? No.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It's really, really good.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Wasn't it, like, a bunch of serial killers?

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah. But one of the first main ones that they kind of go and interview is Ed Gein.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Gotcha.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I believe. Unless I'm completely wrong. And if so, let me.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Who knows. It was a while ago.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

What's going on in Wisconsin?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Not much. I think that's kind of the problem. Yeah. A lot of us, A lot of serial killers are from the Midwest.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Do you think Michael Micah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

John Wayne Gacy was, like, from Illinois? Like, like the Chicago. Chicago. Chicago area. Like 90 minutes from Jeffrey Dahmer.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Do you think Michael Parsons is.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Guys, I'm so excited. Guys, I. Okay, first of all, again, we're recording this on Friday. Michael Parsons was traded to the Green Bay packers yesterday. This is like one of the biggest trades in NFL history. If you're a Green Bay Packer fan, you know, if you know, you know, this is a very exciting time. Not. I know none of you in the household care about this. Right. Like, Susie, are you. Do you care? I don't as Mary. I know you kind of are a football fan.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I. I dabble with the Steelers culturally.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Okay. Yeah, this is a really very exciting time. Also, can I just say, one of the most unlocked a new hotness of my wife recently. The Milwaukee brewers are, like, on a bit of a. They have the best record in baseball, and I've always been a baseball fan, but, like, you know, life gets. It comes at you fast. You don't have much time for it. I started watching some Brewer games. Turns out my wife's a bit of a baseball fan.

[Susie Evans]

Wow, that is hot.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

You know, Natalie, also, the other day.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I told Nick I dabbled in some baseball players, and it just brings me back to my youth, you know, baseball.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Players, you know, whatever. I get to watch some baseball. We get to do it as a family. It's a family affair.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, a lot of hotties play baseball.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

That's true.

[Susie Evans]

And they make the money, you know.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And they make that money, and they have tight pants. Did you see Austin Butler in Cult Stealing?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Hello.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Well, my wife has always been just interested enough in sports that we like what I love about Natalie, when it comes to sports, it's like, she does. He's not, like, hardcore like me. It's not like we're like, oh, yeah, high fiving. She definitely makes fun of me in the best possible way as, like, a wife show. When it comes to the. The fantasy that is sports, it's like my Dungeons and Dragons, but, like, it's a family affair for Natalie. Like, we do it as a family. Like, I feel like she really gets into it. Like, the whole, like, vibe of the.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Season, it really gives fall, you know.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Like, football season really gives fall.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

And I'm telling you, ladies, if you're listening and if you are, have you have a boyfriend or a husband who is into football, even casually, this trade is something like, they. They know about. And so, like, Natalie would from time to time, like, would she go on Twitter and, like, find, like, a. Like, some sports tweet and, like, hit me with, like, a random, like, analysis of football that I would be shocked that she knew about.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Like, Jerry Jones would never.

[Susie Evans]

Yeah, he would never do this.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

The fact that he traded is crazy.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

So if you're. Ladies, if you're out there, if, you know, I tell you what, like, listen, you don't need to watch sports with your man. You. You know, like, you. You don't. I mean, he doesn't need you if you don't want to. He doesn't need you by your side on the couch. Day in and day out. But just like, you know, it's always nice to have your partner take somewhat of an interest in the things that they're passionate about, you know, I got a couple lines for you. Just hit them with some. Some of these questions and act like I didn't tell you to ask these questions. You know, number one, ask your. Ask your partner. Do you feel like. Or just be like, Jerry. Jerry Jones was definitely trying to replicate his Herschel Walker trade.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Okay, everyone, did you write that down?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Did you write that in your note? Yeah. Okay, number two, do you think Micah Parsons could be as good as Lawrence Taylor?

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Okay. I feel like that's a good one. That'll get him. Like, that'll get some dialogue out of him.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

How much middle linebacker will Mark Michael Parsons play, or will he only play defensive end? If you want to go real crazy, be like, do you think the packers will play some wide nine?

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Wide nine.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

That's fine.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Wide nine.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Wait, I got one. How does it feel to see Aaron Rodgers in the black and gold?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Black and gold. Is he with the Saints?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

He's with the Steelers now.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Also, you could say, is it Archie Manning or bust for the Dallas Cowboys?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Okay.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I feel like y' all have got them, right?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Done.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Y' all got him.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Listen, if your man washes. Yeah. You know, the trade happened a few days ago, so maybe, you know, if he is a Dallas Cowboys fan, he's. He's dying. He's hiding. Especially if. If your. If your boyfriend's, like, a Lions or Bears fan. If he's a. If he is a Bears fan, ask your boyfriend if he feels like the season's already over because the packers got Micah Parsons.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Speaking of football, did you just hear that Jordan Hudson, Bill Belichick's girlfriend, has tried to trademark gold digger?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

You know what? Good for her.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Can you trademark no. A term so historically known.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Right. It's like.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I mean, it's like, what about Kanye West?

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

That's what I was. I was gonna be like, not to bring that guy up, but yeah.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah. It's like, she didn't create the word. She's definitely not the only woman that's been called that.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

No. Right.

[Susie Evans]

Is she actually filing for something, or is she just making claims?

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

It says the application has been accepted by the office, but has not yet been reviewed.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Wow.

[Susie Evans]

If she pulls this off.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

But I'm like, are we branding?

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Are we trademarking a term? Are we trademarking in the sense of, like, for her brand?

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Like, is she gonna start Making merch with the name.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Yeah, that's like under the brand Gold Digger.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Or she will just be able to, like if someone else does. I suppose it's a way to protect yourself for people making merch against you. I suppose, yeah.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Is gold digger really that offensive to her that she needs to like take control of the word?

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

You know what I mean? Take, taking.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Taking it back.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Like that word hits you that hard. Like, just don't read the comments.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Maybe she just like really wants to. It's so many people are calling her a gold digger and she thinks that if she can trademark it, she can make money.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Guys, I should have trademarked child bride.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

What were you thinking?

[Susie Evans]

It's not too late to file.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Did anyone call you a gold digger?

[Susie Evans]

Never too late.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, I got a few gold diggers.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

You did?

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

You know, they, they like to reuse. No one's really original these days. You know, if you've heard it once, you've heard it a million times.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

They go for the hits.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, they go for the hits for sure.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Speaking of hits and things I've never heard of Cardi B in the courtroom has been sound bites on sound bites.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It's giving kind of Legally Blonde.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It's kind of awesome.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

It's like an else skit that's never ending.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It's.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

It's, it's so entertaining.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It's so good.

[Susie Evans]

I like.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

And this.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

He's what, the prosecutor, I guess.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Right?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Do we have any clips from it?

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

No. We do.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah. She's kind of.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

She's running circles around him.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

Every day there's a new one.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

She's very, she's very much giving Marisa Tomei and my cousin Vinny.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

It's a wig.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

So this whole case is because Oscar.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Award winning Marisa Tomei from Oscar award.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Winning Marisa Tomei in that movie. And Cardi B maybe could win an Oscar for this performance in the courtroom as well.

[Susie Evans]

She's definitely winning everyone over.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

She has to play her. She does.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

She has to play herself. So this whole, this whole trial is basically. Cardi B is accused of verbally and physically attacking a security guard outside of Beverly Hills medical office in 2018. Cardi B denies this person suing her, and she is suing her, trying to sue her.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Money grab, Gold digger.

[Susie Evans]

That's what I think.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I think amount of money.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, it's an insane amount of money.

[Susie Evans]

Honestly, without even hearing the courtroom stuff, I think I immediately side with the pregnant woman. You know what I mean? Like a security guard pregnant at the.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Time, she was going to the doctor's office counter. Sue.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Yeah. She's suing her for $24 million.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Right.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It's very Gwyneth.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Oh, this is like. This is Cardi's Gwyneth moment.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And what's crazy is hearing the security guard on the stand, and they're like, you know, she's. I guess in the initial report, she said that, like, Cardi has really long nails, and she, like, had scratched her face with her really long nails, and it, like, hit her. And so Cardi's lawyer is, like, asking her about this, and she's like, oh, it's in the report. And he's like, but can you tell me, like, what happened? She's like, she, like, can't remember what she said initially. So she keeps being like, well, it's in the report.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Oh, my God.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Well, you can go back to the report.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

This is a waste of taxpayer dollars.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

100%.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

Craziest one is him being like, can you hear me? And she's like, hello? And he goes, hello, I'm here.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah. Hello?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

And it's like, what? She's being sued by this woman for what? Like, emotional distress or some bullshit?

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

No, for physical.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

For a physical assault. Alleging that Cardi cut her face with the fingernail, spat on her, and used racial slurs during the altercation.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And what's crazy is, like, from Cardi B's experience, she's like, I'm walking into this doctor's office, and the security guard starts, like, following me with her phone out, like, filming Cardi. And she's basically like, why are you following me? Like, what are you doing? And this girl, like, keeps following her, keeps recording or whatever she's trying to do. And then I guess they get into a little, like, back and forth, but talking. Talking about, like, her being pregnant. And he's like, and so how far along were you? And she's like, I don't know, 13 to 12 weeks.

[Susie Evans]

And he's like, so what is that.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Like, three, four months? And she's like, I. I don't know.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Don't ask me that.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It's the most, like, damn. Like, she's like, I know. I was 13 weeks and I have no idea how many months that is.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Right? Yeah.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Her being like, them. Him asking, did you call her fat? Are you saying that she's fat because she's bigger and she's like, I didn't call her fat. I called her a big.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Oh, my God. Didn't she go, no, that was when.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

She was like, are you calling my Client fat. And she's like, well, look.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Oh, my God.

[Susie Evans]

When she was pointing at the eyes and they're like, well, like, how would. Like, what do you mean about that? And she's like, just pointing to her eyes, like, can you see? I was like, oh, my gosh. She's winning us over, though.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

She is.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

That's the thing, you know, she's not lying on the stand.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Susie Evans]

I also just feel like if the person suing is, like, physically able to walk into the courtroom, I'm like, I'm sorry, 24 million. Like, maybe if you were actually affected by this, hospitalized, you walked yourself in.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Talking about. He's like, like, asking her if she was disabled or something.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And she was like, when I'm pregnant, I'm very disabled.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Yes.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yes.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Do you want a list of things I cannot do?

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

You want the list of things I cannot do?

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Honestly, here's the thing about me in this moment, viewing Cardi b on trial, I'm so charmed by her that even if she was in the wrong.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Right. Yeah.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I'd be like, she did nothing wrong suing.

[Susie Evans]

I agree.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

There's a time I, I, I'm not a fan of people who frivolously sue people for money grabs.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

You took out your camera and started recording her.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And she's like, going, right. He's like, I'm going to a doctor's office. Like, clearly, I'm like, you know, like this. I'm not, like, at the park. Like, I'm going to the doctor's office. Like, I'm not. Okay. Like, anyone going into a doctor's office has something going on with them.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

But she was going for, like, a checkup, but she didn't want people to know yet. So it's also kind of like you're invading her privacy fully. And it's like, where are you?

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And then you have the receptionist who's like, was a witness to all of this. And she's like, I had to tell the security guard, like, get back to your post. Like, leave her alone. So it's just like, this is, I mean, the fact that honestly.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Taxpayer dollars are going towards this is crazy.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Crazy. Although if you are, if you get requested for jury duty, you definitely want to be on this trial for sure. What a good time.

[Susie Evans]

I'm sad I missed it.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Wait, do you guys remember that show Jury Duty?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

This is season two.

[Susie Evans]

Truly.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Well, like we said before, the paper premieres on September 4, and the Vile Files household joined the red carpet headlined by Susie Evans. And we Have a clip to show you guys about their whole experience. So let's take it away, and then we will talk about it after we get back from the clip.

[Susie Evans]

We are here at the Peacock premiere of the Paper. Kind of like a spin off of the Office, if you're familiar. It's going to be really exciting. We are going to chat with some of the actors, influencers, comedians that are all here tonight. So let's get into it.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Hi.

[Susie Evans]

How's it going?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I'm Susie. Hi, Susie and I.

[Susie Evans]

Nice to meet you. You know, we actually met, like, two years ago. No chance you would remember me, though.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

No, no, no.

[Susie Evans]

No chance you would remember.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I'm starting over, coming back. Oh, my gosh. Leo. Oh, my gosh. How are you? Oh, my gosh.

[Susie Evans]

So happy to see you.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Okay. I'm a huge fan, you know. You know how I feel about you. It's mutual.

[Susie Evans]

Where do you get your inspiration for the characters that you put out online?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

From.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

From everywhere, from the bank, the post office, old, you know, teachers. You know, I love employees. I love the service industry. Everybody.

[Susie Evans]

Hi, I'm Susie with the vial files.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I'm so excited to meet you.

[Susie Evans]

The Office has so many fans, and you were such a big part of that. And I just wanted to know, what can we expect from the Paper tonight?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I think you're gonna like it. It really holds on to its mockumentary roots.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

You know, for the people who enjoyed.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Getting into the Office, you'll enjoy getting into the Paper. How's it going? I'm Susie. Eric.

[Susie Evans]

Nice to meet you, too. I heard you're a writer and you will be making an appearance on the show, correct?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

That's right. Okay.

[Susie Evans]

Can you tell us a little bit about your character?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, my character's name is Travis Beanling. He's like a delivery driver that sits on a couch.

[Susie Evans]

Are you excited to be here tonight?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I am.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Anything Greg Daniels does and Howard and, you know, Michael, I'm excited to see it.

[Susie Evans]

When you're out in public, do people treat you with the same endearment that they would if they were to meet your character?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

They're either disappointed that I'm not the character or relieved.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

So I just wanted to know a.

[Susie Evans]

Little bit more about your character and what we can expect from her this season.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Adilola Olafin is, I think, someone who.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

Is, like, the smartest person in the.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Room but has the least amount of interest in anything.

[Susie Evans]

I wanted to know people that are fans of the Office. Do you think that they're gonna fall right in and Fall in love with these characters in the same way.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I hope so.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

I hope so.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I think if you go into it going, okay, this is a new show. It's in the hands. Safely in the hands of the same creatives.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

I think it is a kind of devoiding themselves from that.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

This is another Office. It's not.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

It's a completely different show.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

It's kind of like a version of Ex Machina with Oscar as a sexy robot.

[Susie Evans]

Do you have, like, the worst. A worst job story that you can give us? What's the worst job you've ever had?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

It was a stripper car wash. I was a waiter at a summer camp for children, and the kids hated me so much. So strippers during the day. The clubs weren't really populated, so they decided to come together and create a car wash. Their one kid was the ringleader, Muti Fuerstein. And name drop. Fuck him.

[Susie Evans]

As a fan of the Office, I personally feel like there is an element to the show that's like you are both cringing and feeling so awkward, but also feel very empathetic. How do you even start to write a character that can have both things going at once?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I think that everybody on this planet is cringing.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

You know what I mean?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And I think cringe is a gift.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

You know what I'm saying?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Like, I feel like people have come.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

To, like, be afraid of being cringy, and I think we all have to lean into it.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

And if you look at yourself for.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Real in the mirror, like, there's some embarrassing parts, but you're better for it if you can embrace them.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

And I think the same goes for these characters.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Hi, I'm Susie.

[Susie Evans]

It's so nice to meet you. So what can we expect going into tonight and watching the first episode?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I'm so. I've seen the first episode guarantee it's a win. Win. A 10 out of 10. And I am so excited for everybody for this show to be out in the world because I think it's like, just a very smartly written, very funny show stacked with, like, an amazing cast.

[Susie Evans]

Do you know what an ick is?

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

Like the feeling of being disgusted by something.

[Susie Evans]

Exactly. Okay, do you have a co worker ick that you can share with us?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

An egg.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

An ick.

[Susie Evans]

I c k an ick.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

Asking me out at work and then.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Me saying, I don't want to date you, and then having to work with them every day again for like, a year.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

It's like dermatitis.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

No, not quite a foil.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

So I worked in a job once and somebody used to bring in the same sandwich every day.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And it was sort of brown bread.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

Peanut butter, sweet chili sauce, and I think bananas maybe.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And he would microwave it.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

And the smell in the office, I think, was. I mean, was ick personified.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Anytime they say you haven't gotten any older, they don't know what. What's going on with me. They just don't know.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I love it. I love it.

[Susie Evans]

Well, thank you so much. All right, you guys, this is our first time doing a red carpet, and it was an adrenaline rush. It was exciting. It was so much fun. It got super loud and busy. We did the best that we could. We tried to get some juicy questions, some fun questions for you guys. I had a blast. And I'm about to go inside and watch the very first episode of the.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Paper, so stay tuned.

[Susie Evans]

I have a feeling it's going to be good.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Thank you. First one, first one done. He just said, I'm not a virgin anymore.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

So much fun.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

That was so good.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

What was the best part of the experience, Susie?

[Susie Evans]

I think it was just learning as we were going through, like I said, was so nervous going in, and I've, like, not really been that nervous for work stuff in a long time. I think, like, it was just. I was, like, scared. I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, these are people I watched on the Office. Like, I was a huge fan of the Office, and they're like, suddenly in front of me, and I'm like, wait, I see you as your character, but you're a real human. And then I just getting into it and getting into the flow of it, and then, like, actually having good rapport with them and feeling like we were just, like, having fun. In the interview, I was like, oh, it just felt like a really, like, big moment of growth, I think, for all of us. I was like, this is just so incredibly fun and exciting, and it just felt like a really good learning experience. I was like, this is amazing. So I think just being there and growing and learning.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Yeah, you did a great job, you guys.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, you killed it.

[Susie Evans]

Everyone killed it. The whole team. We all worked together.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

That's amazing. Well, thanks for doing that for us and hopefully many more to come. All right, up next, we have not that cosmic.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

She.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

She was the one who called it first some time ago that Taylor, Nick, and Ace from Love island, usa. That friendship was not going to last long, and it certainly didn't. The fallout has been messy. We'll get into it. But let's start by bringing on not that cosmic to get her analysis on the situation and maybe she'll be able to give us a little bit of a read on since she's making predictions. I wonder if she's made a prediction on nickelandria based off of their chart. So let's bring her on and get the astrology analysis that you are all desperately waiting for. If you're a bread girly like me, then you should make the switch to Hero bread. I love bread, love all kinds of bread. But I don't like sometimes how certain breads out there make you feel bloated. Also love that Herobred is low in sugar and great in taste. Whether it's their croissants, their breads, they have a great selection of all kinds of delicious breads.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

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[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

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[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

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[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Well, welcome to the show. Should we call you Audrey or not so cosmic.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

We can go with Audrey for now.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Well, Audrey, we. We found your clip online and you called it, like, I don't know how long ago you made that clip, but you called the fallout of Ace, Taylor and Nick at a time where many people thought this was, you know, maybe the next PPG or just, you know, the, the. The next great bromance from reality tv. But like, it. It didn't take long for this trio to start fighting. You know, online, in interviews, people are being thrown under the bus. So I would just love, you know, I'm. I'm not necessarily someone who follows astrology that closely, but when you hit it right, you hit it right. And you were definitely one of the first people online, maybe the first to call this breakup. So we figured we'd bring you on and we'd love to hear you. How'd you come up with this? Can you give us a little bit of analysis? Can you explain to our audience why the star said that these three men would not be friends?

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

So I made the video in the middle of June, so the season had only barely begun. And originally I just wanted to make a video about the three of them because I saw them becoming a tree and I was like, oh, I'd love to see, you know, what their relationship is like and what's going between them. But I was, as I was looking and going through, and especially once I got to Ace and Nick, I was like, wait a minute. I'm like, they don't look super close. I'm like, I'm not seeing a ton of friendship in here. I'm not seeing a ton of, like, love and harmony. And I was like, wait a minute, do they not like each other? I'm like, I don't think Ace likes him. And I was a little bit worried to say that I definitely didn't want to go online and tell everyone that the trio brothers weren't going to stay together. And it did not age well at the time, but has aged well since then. But honestly, the biggest issue between the two of them is they're just very opposite of each other. And having a bunch of oppositions isn't a bad thing. It just means that someone does something differently than you, which can be a good thing or a bad thing. You can either, you know, learn something new from someone about how to execute differently, or it just seems like someone is always trying to do the opposite of what you're trying to do. And so I think Ace just kind of started to feel a little bit irritated with Nick, maybe, so to speak, with the way that he was acting and behaving opposite of him.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

So, yeah.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

And I feel like, you know, trios always end up becoming duos at some point. I think we got really lucky with ppg, and I don't think we could have that perfect combination a second time.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

So what was it that was different in their charts?

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

So all of the, like, personal planets that have to do with things like how you regulate yourself, how you like to communicate with others, what your values and morals are, all those things for them are opposite. And so they just. They execute differently. They need different things to feel safe and secure. They communicate and reason with themselves in different ways. And they also just have different morals when it comes to relationships or just with life. And that can be, you know, romantic or just friendship, relationships. And so having all those things opposite, it's not always easy to find common ground. But the one thing that really stuck out to me was that Nick's moon, which has to do with his emotions and his regulation and how he takes care of himself, was on Ace's Neptune, which is a planet that can cause some murkiness and confusion and disillusion. And so it kind of seemed to me, I'm like, I don't think Ace really understands who Nick is either. So aside from the fact that they're just so different, I'm like, I don't think Ace really understands who Nick is and what he stands for and what he's trying to do with his life. And Ace is a Leo. And for better or for worse, like, Leos like to be very authentic, and they like to try to give themselves more authentically. So I think he probably felt like maybe Nick was being a bit shady or not showing himself clearly. So it kind of just was a recipe for disaster.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And I guess when you first initially posted, that was the response.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah. Did you get flamed in the comments?

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

Yes, I definitely got flamed. And even within, like, the past few weeks, they were like, oh, well, you were wrong about this. Like, they seem super close now. You were wrong about this. And I'm like, okay, that's fine. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. That's okay. But then I was just. I'm in the process of moving right now, and all of a sudden I just get flooded with comments like, you Were right. Oh, my gosh. Like, even on a podcast, you're right. I'm like, oh, my gosh, what happened? And so it's. They call it Astrologer Good. Where, like, obviously I'm not happy that they're fighting, but I was like, okay, but I was right. So Astrologer good.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Did you predict. And I saw the clip of your video, but maybe I didn't see the whole thing. But did you predict any type of timeline? Because in my experience, like, when it comes to reality tv, you have to give it a few. You have to give it one year for these relationships to really play out how they would in the real world, outside of the pressure and the outside influences that being on TV and all the kind of bullshit that, like, these people have to, like, consider, like, the real friendships. It's. It takes at least a year. So the fact that you called this and they couldn't even get to, like, two months post the villa, I think is not only you getting it, but it's a smash hit. Because, like, even if they would have taken eight months to break up, I would have said you called it.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

I think what makes this just year as a whole interesting is there's just a lot of very interesting and whack astrology going on. I think we can all feel that with just everything that's going on in the world, you know, there's just a lot of changes happening, and all the changes are happening very quickly.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

And so I think it was kind of a thing where there was so many transits that were causing so many irritations. All of them were just getting hit and punched with things way faster than they would have otherwise, both in the villa and right when they got out of the villa. So I kind of knew it was going to be really tense when they all first got out and there was going to be some hostility still there. And now we're in a point where some of those planets are going retrograde now. And when planets go retrograde, you have to kind of go back and revisit some of the things that were going on when things were still direct. So now not only are they still feeling that hostility, now they have to go back and relive and rehash some of these things. So it's just kind of a unique situation that this specific cast is going through.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Did you make any other. Did you study, like, Iris and Pepe or Amaya and Brian? Did you look at anyone else's and find anything similar?

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

Nothing terribly similar, I will say. I thought Shelly And Ace's compatibility is very interesting. I remember looking at their chart when all the rumors were coming out that they were married and already had babies and stuff. And I was like, okay, well let's look at this. They, they are close together. I think that they do well together. But I do see signatures in their chart that they could end up getting married or they embody what the person would want in a marriage. I was like, okay, that is interesting. I'm like, if they are secretly married, that would make sense.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Okay.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

Iris and Pepe, they do actually have a ton of oppositions between them as well. So I wasn't super hopeful that they were going to make it last, but I was glad that they were there for each other in the end. I obviously couldn't foresee that this terrible thing would happen between them. But you did.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

You couldn't see the woman on Snapchat posting that she slept with Pepe in his chart?

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

No. The stars don't give you like they.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Don'T get that granule like that?

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

No, I wish they could. That would be really helpful for some people.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

But how, what about. I mean, I have to ask Nickelandrea who right now receiving ACEs wrath of doubt and hostility. But do the stars say anything about the potential of Nickel? Andrea?

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

I think they could work. I think my concern comes with like the longevity aspect. I think that they're like lifestyles in their routines are just a little bit different. So I think long term they may find that they just aren't like sole partners for the rest of their lives. But there's a lot of mercurial influence between the two of them. So I think that they really enjoy being around each other. I think they're very stimulated by each other. They have a lot of fun. They don't run out of things to talk to. They obviously work really well together. Their brand deals are all going really well right now. But they do have a Mars opposition. So they do just take action very differently. So that over time could cause some arguments. They call it like a tit for tat relationship. An example of a Mars opposition we've had in the past was Kaler and Aaron. So you could kind of see how.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It'S like.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

You'Re trying to do the same thing, but you're doing it in opposite ways. You think the other one is wrong, but you're both trying to get the same way and you just can't reason with it. The thing is, if Nick and Alandria really truly love each other, they will make anything work. But they do have some difficult transits. Both of them have difficult transits coming up. So I'll be intrigued to see especially in this next month. We have eclipses coming up in Alandria's first and seventh house, which is the relationship access. So I could see them either becoming official or breaking up. But Nick in particular also is going through a lot right now. He's going through a lot of changes. I think he's very just confused about the person that he is. I mean, rightfully so with what he's going through now. So I don't think what we're seeing right now is going to be the end of the story. So I think we kind of have to see how it plays out to see if they really, really want to make this work or if they're just going to go their separate ways.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Did anything in their chart explain why despite you predicting the fallout of Ace and Nick explained why they at least had the short term friendship that they had on the. On the show and in the villa?

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

Yeah, so the three gangle of boys we had, they all had similar ish mars signs and that can just show, you know, like how we like to take action, how we like to have fun. So I think as a whole, they all just enjoyed having fun the same way. I think they kind of had similar banter, they enjoyed goofing off in similar ways. And what I did notice is that like Ace, like Taylor kind of brought all three of them together. He was kind of the glue keeping them together because Taylor was really, really close with Ace and then also has some really sweet synastry with Nick. So I think having Taylor there helped them all just have more fun. But then I think once Taylor left, those differences probably started to show up a little bit more.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Wow.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And are you following any other relationships on reality TV right now?

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

Not super closely. I feel like after Love island ended, social media was just a bit, yeah, a little bit crazy. So I took a little bit of a brain break. But I'm excited to watch Love Island Games. I just watched Perfect Match. I didn't look up all their charts, but I had a lot of fun watching that. So hope I can kind of learn more about all of that soon.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

So would you. Do you want to go on the record by saying that Nick and Alandria, based off their chart, could in the short term either defy. Like, are you saying that it's going to be like a definitive decision one way or the other? They're going to either define the relationship in the next few months or or call it a day.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

Yeah, I think I could say within the next month especially. We'll definitely hear something about that.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Okay. All right. Well, hopefully you heard it here first. Audrey, also known as not that Cosmic. We really appreciate you taking the time. So much fun. Hope to have you back. Can you anything you want to plug? Where can people follow you and enjoy what you're doing online?

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

Yeah, you can find me at not that Cosmic on X, on TikTok, on Instagram. I'm going to start posting again next week about new stuff. My readings are sold out right now, but those will open again sometime next month hopefully. But yes, just excited to keep going. Thank you so much for having me. This has been lovely.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

We really appreciate taking the time, so much fun and hope to have you back in the future, Audrey.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

Amazing. Thank you so much.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

All right, take care.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

That was great.

[Susie Evans]

I need to get on her list.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Me too.

[Susie Evans]

Can I get on the waitlist?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

It'll be really interesting to see if she gets that right. I guess. I just feel like this whole Ace stuff is crazy to me. Sierra, you listened to his episode?

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I did. I listened to it on two times.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Speed.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

But give us the big takeaways because I want to make sure that, like, you know, I've seen a ton of clips from the interview. I want to make sure that we're not doing what so many people do with our show that sometimes we get frustrated with, which is like, people will take clips or even edit clips or remove things that we say and take things out of context. So I want to. I just want to make sure that we're not speculating or, or, or, or changing the context of the interview that ACE gave because it really seems like he is in my read, like, throwing his friends under the bus. He seems to be throwing even Alandria under the bus.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Well, let's get.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

What?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Well, let's just hear what. What. Give us the breakdown, Sierra, of the ACE interview that everyone's talking about.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Yeah, that's. Where do you want to start? He's throwing production under the bus, saying that he was influenced a to keep Hutta when he didn. To keep Taylor talking to Alandria when he didn't want to. He also claimed that he had talked to production about not wanting a villain edit and then, you know, being surprised at the fact that he did in fact get a villain edit. When he was asked about the relationship between Nicholandria and if he thought that it was real, he proceeded to be silent, making faces, throwing, and then he was like, I'm gonna take by your response or no response that that is the response. And he was just kind of like, you know, pretty much said that he wasn't on good terms with Nick at this point, that the only people that he talks to are Alandria, Shelly, and Taylor. Um, and so the interviewer kept being like, okay, well, you're clearly leaving out Nick, who is one of your best friends on the show. And he was just like, you know, that Nick didn't have his back getting out of the villa and that he, like, holds his integrity close to him and that, like, when Nick had opportunities to defend him, that he didn't. But a lot of people are saying that Nick. Nick's been very public talking about, like, Ace's character and, like, that he's been backing him up. So I'm not really sure where that's coming from.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah. And is there any example of Nick talking shit about Ace?

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I don't think we really saw Nick talk shit about anybody.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Didn't Nick get a fake Ace tattoo on his back?

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yes, he did.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

He's called him his, like, best bud and, like, the person he's closest to outside of the villa, and they were fine at the reunion. So that's the other thing, too. If you had all of this to say to Nick or about Nick, why wouldn't you air it out there versus on podcast?

[Susie Evans]

Right.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Oh, also, he got a. He got in the Ace font.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Nick.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah. But it was the man who was like, stand on business. Stand on business. Stand on business.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Right.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Did not stand on business at that.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Reunion or against producers or again, I mean, it felt like he was, like, coming for everyone. Everything he was doing himself.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

He's talking out of both sides of his mouth. Like, if you're Mr. Stand On Business and you're keeping it real, then why, you know, doing the whole classic reality TV thing is blaming producers. I thought you kept it so real. There's no metaphorical gun to your head. Producers certainly can have an opinion. They can ask, but, like, hey, listen, like, it's a game. And if. Fine, maybe. Maybe Ace felt like, oh, well, to stay, he had to do certain things. I promise you, there were no threats made in production because they don't do that anymore. I'm certainly. I'm certain that Ace felt pressured by producers, but again, if he's keeping it so real, no one made him make the decisions that he made. Also, the fact that he suggested that, like, he told producers he didn't want to be the villain, as if, like, that's just like, A role he had an option to play and he didn't want to play it, but the producers made him play the role anyways.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And it's like, why did you think you would get a villain edit? Like, he's so well versed in the. In reality TV and how it works that he felt he needed to go to producers and be like, hey, I know the way I've been hanging, behaving, or whatever I've been saying might come off as a villain. So, like, please don't use that and make me have a villain edit.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

It's also disrespectful to reality TV villains of old. I'm sorry, There has been some iconic reality TV villains, and it's disrespectful on so many levels. One, like, Ace isn't even a real villain. Like, credit to Ace, he has a large fan base. He has fans. He's both, like, popular in the streets and he's popular online. Sure, he has some critics, but for some of the villains out there who had like nine fans and like, the entire Internet hating on them, like, this is not what a reality TV villain is. Well, now he is by his own making his edit. Again, you're quote unquote standing on business. But, like, you ripped all of your peers for going on podcasts at the reunion, only for you to go on a podcast and throw them all under the bus. And the. And Orlandria, who you claim to still be friends with, you're also throwing her under the bus by throwing Nick under the bus.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Wait, Sierra, didn't he say something about Nick saying, like, he wasn't romantically into.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

He said that there was, like, no romantic spark or that, like, Nick had said that, like, he's obviously attracted to her, that they were both attracted to each other, but it was coming from more of a friend place and that they were exploring it. So he.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

So is he. By indirectly accusing Alandria of being in on it, or is he accusing Orlandria of not. Not picking up Nick's true intentions that Ace seems to be picking up? And, like, is that being communicated to Alandria directly or is she hearing it via the podcast now?

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I mean, that's. Those are good questions because I'm kind of like, it sounds like he's trying to imply that a lot of people. He actually did say that a lot of people were not there for the right reasons. He was like, I already had followers. I already had clout. Like, I didn't need to go in there for that. So he was kind of insinuating that he was the only one there for the right reasons. But, like, he's saying. He's saying he has a lot of respect for Alandria, but then I'm like, you're literally saying that, like, she's either agreeing to be in a relationship solely for clout or that she doesn't know that this guy isn't into her.

[Susie Evans]

I also feel like people assume that if you're famous, you're making money, but, like, you have to be likable to an extent. I feel like. And I'm. I feel like Ace came in with a lot of followers. Yeah, maybe not, but. But I feel like he came with a lot of followers, and it's like, okay, you have a lot of big numbers, but, like, was he getting brand deals? Was he actually making money? And now he went on the show claiming, oh, I'm here for the right reasons. Nobody's there for the right reasons. Like, you're on love island. It's okay. You're just there to have fun and, like, you know, get around and make money, whatever, and, like, have a good time. But it feels like he's pointing the finger at everybody. And I'm like, I think he's just intimidated by all these guys who are actually likable and getting opportunities.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah. Like, Ace clearly has a lot of, like. Like, good characteristics. You know, he's very intelligent, he is strategic. And as a strategic guy, I don't have any problem with that. But, like, where his immaturity is showing. And I said this on last Thursday's episode. He's reminding me of when I was 18 and I had a girlfriend and my buddy had a girlfriend, and their girlfriends were friends, and I wanted to be the most in love couple. And, like, Ace is mad not because he's the villain, because he's not the favorite couple, and he's being really petty about it. And also, he's talking out of both sides of his mouth on so many levels, because we've talked about this before. There's Internet famous and there's mainstream famous, and maybe Ace had a bunch of followers. There are YouTube stars with 15 million followers that the average person hasn't heard of that can go to a Chipotle and no one noticed them. And now Ace and Shelley can't walk outside of their apartment and go to any major city without being treated like a list celebrities for the next couple months. And, like, there's. And for Ace to sit there and suggest that, like, he regrets going on own be gone. Because he Wanted to meet Shelley, which, by the way, I'm not so sure anymore that, like, they didn't have a relationship prior to coming into the villa. Because he seems to be outing himself in that same interview. He kind of stepped on it and accidentally made it seem like when he saw her at the club, because he recognized her online, that he got her number. And then he like, backtracked a little bit, as if he, like, like, caught himself saying something he wasn't supposed to say. Maybe that was just like some kind of weird slip. But, like, I don't know. You guys remember, like, when the. The things happened in the villa. Like, it was weird when he, like, went to Amaya right after matching with her and was like, hey, we can't touch each other. It was weird when Shelly tried to pretend that she was into Austin when there was no chemistry. And there was so much chemistry from Ace and Shelly from the get. And they tried to slow play their relationship, which made no sense. And it makes a lot of sense that they kind of had. They knew each other. But it's. This is. It's wild to me. Like, everything Ace is doing right now is benefiting from his. From. From Love Island. Like, he is not recognizing the fact that he is Love island famous. And that is very different than going, you know, being instant, like, tick tock live famous.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

And he also threw them under the bus production as well, because they asked about the cold sores outbreak.

[Susie Evans]

Did they?

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Oh, yeah.

[Susie Evans]

Oh, gosh.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

And he. So that's where I'm like, I might be confusing his reaction to being like, cagey or whatever, but like, he wouldn't really answer. He said, I didn't get no cold sores. Like, you didn't see any cockroaches on my mouth. Which I don't really understand the reference, but point being is that I'm like a production, especially a dating show. It's like they have to test for STDs. They have to test. Cause they're gonna have people kissing in challenges and like, whatnot. So I'm like, you're also saying that essentially that the Love island production didn't do their due diligence.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Just a little BTS on reality tv. Testing positive for type one in your blood does not disqualify you. One doctor told me reality TV wouldn't exist if that was the case. Type 2 would get you disqualified. You can't get on if you test positive for type 2 herpes. But type 1, like 80% of the population has it in their blood system. So they wouldn't have a show, as a doctor once told me, which is kind of hilarious.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

But either way, was he shading Nick with things?

[Susie Evans]

That sounds.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Yeah, 100.

[Susie Evans]

Right.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

And I think Taylor did a live where he was watching the interview and he was saying something about how Charlie and Nick were playing football or something, and then, like, that's what happened. Or, like, that it wasn't a her, like a cold sore. But, I mean, I don't. I don't know. And then he saw Ace say what he said and was kind of like, well, I mean, I didn't see that. So I don't know if that's what was going on. Like, I didn't notice. Notice it. So, like, I don't know.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And has anyone responded to this podcast? Ace did.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I don't. Not that I know of. Besides, seeing Taylor respond while watching the live, that's. That's all he was saying. He was kind of, like, watching it as the questions were going on and being like, oh, there wasn't herpes, or, like, you know, I didn't see that, or whatever. And then as soon as Ace was like, yeah, like, maybe then he was like, oh, okay, well, maybe. I don't know. But, like, he wasn't going against Ace. He would. He didn't come to, like, Nick's full defense either. Being like.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I mean, it also makes me question, like, Shelly and, you know, like, her friendship with Alandria. It's like, if that really is your girl, like, I don't care how Nick feels about whoever. Like, if they're my friend, you're not about to go on a public platform and, like, blast their relationship and tell everyone it's fake and it's this and it's that.

[Susie Evans]

It's like, yeah, yeah.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I feel like there's so many instances in where, in which, like, you can. You have your girl and you may not love her boyfriend, and that is something that you can keep to yourself.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Right?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Also, it's like, it's one thing for us who, like, are just. We're fans of the show. We commented on the show or people online to, like, speculate whether they believe in Nickelandria or they don't believe in Nickelandria, but these people are their alleged friends who hang out with him. And for them to publicly go on. On the record and throw shade and doubt the relationship, even if it was just a business transaction, which I would totally respect, like, get your bag. Both of them. And the fact that it is like, hey, if they're. We're good friends. We're both hot. We both respect each other. We enjoy each other's company. Let's just, like, let's just do this together. I. I have no problem with it. And the fact that Ace is calling it out is honestly potentially really costly to Nickelandria and, like, it's just incredibly petty for him to go on record and call it fake. It's giving, Jealous. It's giving. We want your brand deals. It's giving, like, you know, we're only friends as long as I'm the coolest kid on the block. It's. I'm just kind of blown away just how quickly Mr. Like I stand on Business threw all his friends under the bus when he wasn't the most popular couple out of the outside of the villa.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

So I was wrong. Alandria reportedly responded on Twitter saying, child. Anyways, my event at Tuskegee went amazing yesterday. And then apparently, she deleted that. And then Nick had also posted on his Snapchat after the interview dropped, saying this morning, 10 out of 10. Later in the day, 4 out of 10.

[Susie Evans]

Honestly, it's kind of giving the Jeremiah. It's like, I feel like Ace saw Jeremiah as such a threat at the beginning, and then he took him out. And then coming out of the villa, Ace maybe is seeing everything that's happening with Nickelandria and Jealous, and he's, like, taking them out now, and it's like, yeah, I think Nick made a good point. It's like, if he's not the top dog, if he's not the number one person, he's gonna sabotage people.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Well, speaking of taking people out, should we get into little Row Housewives of Orange County?

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Oh, my God. You're reading my mind.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Reading your mind. Apparently, there's been a little bit of a little back and forth. Katie, Janela is not going. This was her last episode for a couple.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Couple episodes.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Apparently, she's not ending.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Not going on the trip.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

The girls trip to Amsterdam.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yes. Yeah.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Which is a little bit of a confusing reasoning, because I heard she said it was because production was trying to protect her. And then in that same vein, it was, the women don't want her there. They were, like, not gonna film.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

They were trying to protect her against the women because the women were ganging up on Katie is what Katie was saying.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

But then didn't the women also. Didn't I. I read somewhere that the women were like, we're not gonna film if Katie's there.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Oh, wow.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

So it's like, how is production protecting her when it sounds like they really are like, hey, we need a show. These women aren't gonna film with you. So like you can't go because we need some shit to film.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

It was a tough episode for Katie. She, you know, they did the classic lie detector test on reality tv. There is a lot of speculation on the reliability of lie detectors test in general. They don't hold up in the court of law. And when they're on reality TV shows, I think they're even slightly less reliable. Are they even real results? How much production is at play?

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Well, before we get into what happened, let's give a little rapid recap for those who did not watch this past episode of the Real Housewives of Orange County. Gene the machine is still pulling. Shannon wishes she had his Riz.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Kiki.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Monique comes in firing on all cylinders. Said Katie told her about naked, wasted and implied Gina was kind of racist. Emily killed some goldfish and eggs her own house to throw a Persian New Year's party. That is just a Trojan horse to take a lie detector test. This is Shannon's personal nightmare. Also, Tamara shows up uninvited. Apparently everyone told the truth during the test, but they failed some, so make that make sense. According to the test, Shannon is a truth teller. Jen trusts Katie, but not Ryan completely. Heather would rather be in Beverly Hills because of the commute real and did maybe call the paps in Disneyland. Gretchen didn't go to the hospital, which means she lied when she told Tamara and Shannon she did. But also, Tamara reminds the audience that known liars can pass these tests. So do with that info with what you will. Katie flunked the test, but swears absolutely that she did not lie. Overall, does Katie seem like a Machiavellian liar or do we think the test was rigged? Find out next week on the Real Housewives of Orange County.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Justin hit us with a little bravo lore in regards to this particular administrator of said lie detector test. Justin, can you give us a little bit of insight?

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

Yeah, I mean, I do want to clarify. The one that actually conducted Katie's is a female. So it's not the guy, but she's working with the guy. But essentially this, this is a well known polygraph administrator, whatever title you want to give him. We don't have to name him, but he's the one that did LVP's lie detector test when she left Beverly Hills. He's done like every person on the Internet. He did James Charles and you can easily search his name. And he's been exposed by many influencers that if you pay him enough money, he'll give you whatever result you want.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Allegedly, or has this been proven or is this all Allegedly? It's alleged.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

People that have worked with him that have tried to book him.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Oh.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

So, like.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

And I'm like, you're sitting here telling me that when we sit here and watch Gretchen lie to Tamara's face about going to the hospital, but she passes with flying colors that she tells the truth and nothing but the truth.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

And the same thing with lvp. We know she leaked stories radar online, but clearly they did it twice. We know she shot it twice with him and he asked it two different times and that they aired the one where she passed.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

So, like, that being said, Katie's poker face was not very good. She failed my lie detector test.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I'm sorry. I feel like justice for Katie.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Justice for Katie on my end too. Because I'm like, I feel like that's such a nerve wracking thing when you know that all of these people. People hate you.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

And you're, like, trying to defend yourself and you're on your own. You're nervous that it's like, oh, I've never done a lie detector test before. Like, I don't know what they're picking up. And when she was like, it doesn't pick up anxiety. I'm like, yes, the.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It does.

[Susie Evans]

That's literally.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Your heart rate is spiking.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Should you be administering this test, ma'?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Am?

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, I kind of feel the same way about TV lie detector tests as I do about, like, TV therapy on housewives where I'm like, like, sure.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Talk.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

About it, if you will.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I'm like, yeah, I definitely wouldn't put it past Emily to, like, slip him a couple extra hundred bucks to, like.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Emily was egging her own house. She is capable of anything.

[Susie Evans]

Oh, wow.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

That's so true.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

But we did have Kiki Monique come in and be like, hey, she told me this. So it's a little bit of a game of, like, who do you believe? Kiki, Gretchen, Katie.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

But it's like, I believe that Gretchen told Katie this. I believe that Katie repeated it, not thinking. I mean, obviously, like, that's sensitive information. I don't know how this conversation came about. Like, if this was just loosely given out because they said that Gretchen brought it up out of nowhere, that if she was like, oh, my God. Yeah. On this one time, like, if she just thought this was, like, flippant information that, like, close friends or insiders would know, how would she know unless it was said? Do not repeat. And then this whole, like, Slade calling and whatnot. Then I'm like, like, so did you already have this conversation with Kiki mo' Nique and then come to find out or right before filming this season, like, I need a timeline. I need receipts. I need Heather Gay.

[Susie Evans]

Yeah, it felt shitty that she repeated it, but I agree. I feel like Gretchen said it. That's what, that's what I'm receiving. And I'm. I'm new, but I'm like, based on watching it, I'm like, no, that's what feels like happened. And she shouldn't have told that, especially to a blogger.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I think we.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

I think we nailed it. Well, if you. If you ask Kiki Monique, she is definitely not. Not a blogger, but she's a journalist.

[Susie Evans]

A journalist. Okay.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

I think we talked about this last week. I think Katie has. Has told a few lies in her day, and I, I. And I think that seems to be clear. I think she talks to bloggers and she talks to other people in this space, and she gossips a little bit. And yes, I think she is frustrated as the rookie. I think she's doing what she thought everyone does. And apparently there are some how tos and how to not do the blogger world. And I think these women are piling on Katie. And I think Katie's truth is I'm not the only one lying, so to speak. And I think that's why. I think that's why she's standing firm with what she's saying. But she, like, she's clearly, like, not telling the truth about, like, gossiping about Gretchen.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I think it's just kind of like she's being put in a situation where anything that she's saying is being used against her in a way that they.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Don'T care about the intention. They don't care.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

They're treating her like she is the first person to ever gossip with Kiki Monique.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Well, that's the other thing, too. To Natalie's point last week, where it was just like, nobody's commenting on how quickly Gina had that number to pull up. Like, it's just like, you all have journalists numbers. You all have bloggers numbers in your phone.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It's the ecosystem.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I would have to show DM and hope you open it.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, yeah, they.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

They flew past Heather. Heather being called out for lying about the paparazzi.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah. It was Katie's one win, and they didn't even give her that.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

They didn't.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

But then Gina passed her question about the real estate context that Heather didn't Care.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

But needed to ask it.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Not. Not Jen being And honestly, follow your gut, Jen, you know.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

You're worried about marrying Ryan. Ryan.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

But she trusts Katie, which but then doesn't stand up for her. It's very interesting. I don't believe this test.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I don't either.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It's.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It's adding more confusion to the pot.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I was like, Tamra even figured out how to, like, get around it where she was like, well, I answered yes. And here's my long paragraph as to why I answered the way that I did.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I mean, I'm definitely frustrated with Shannon and Tamra because they. They literally asked Gretchen, what, a week ago if she went to the hospital? And she said yes. And so now that she's sitting there and she's on the lie detector testing, like, did you go to the hospital? And her saying no and then passing that, why did not Shannon. Tamara weren't like, wait a minute, bitch. You told us last week that you did go to the hospital.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

And that's what we're saying where it's like, I feel like justice for Katie a little bit, because I'm like, we're sitting here finding out all of these lies that are being told that have been told for seasons, for years, and you guys are supposed to be close, best friends, but we're all just like, let's attack this one new girl.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And it's also like, you have Tamara in her interview being like, well, Gretchen is a known liar. And it's like, you're not gonna say that to defend fucking Katie.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Like, I feel like Tamara's gonna wait and use this in a couple weeks, you know?

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Oh, 100%. Yeah.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

She's got her in her back pocket.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Be careful what you wish for, because when you take the subject of your vitriol out of the equation, it only maybe puts a target on you. So it'll be interesting to see which of the women are gonna regret not having Katie on this trip.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah. If you can't project everything onto her, you have to deal with your own.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

Tamara has been kind of defending Katie in the comments if you've seen.

[Susie Evans]

Oh, really?

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

Or, like, just interacting with her. There was a post that Katie did wearing the outfit from this episode saying, like, another amazing outfit wasted. And then, like, Tamra responded like, you look gorgeous or something like that.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

So, like, I will be very frustrated if Katie is removed from this cast after this season.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, me too.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I just wouldn't be fun for anybody to join this cast if this is what you're going to do every time a new person joins and plays the game.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

You know, you're going to have a really boring season of Emily and Gina making tiktoks. If that's what we're gonna end up doing.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Oh, my God, the tick tocks. Gina kill the trend right now.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Emily killing a goldfish.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I missed that.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

You missed her killing the goldfish. She put goldfish in her centerpiece for the party. And then she was like, a couple of them die.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Goldfish die if they. If you, like, look at them the wrong way, though.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Okay. But still, I was like, all this for a lie for a party. That's a scheme for a lie detector.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

Fish can feel pain. They proved it.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It goldfish.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Anyway.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

Not on my Ben.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

But they are fish.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Aren't they, like, known to be?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

I never thought they couldn't feel pain.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Oh, I think goldfish are known to be, like, the dumbest fish.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Right. Okay.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

But just because they're dumb, I mean.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

I don't know that I know a lot of dumb people who feel pain.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Well, that does it for Real Housewives of Orange County. Let's move on to the Real Housewives of Miami. If you missed the last episode, here is your rapid recap. The girls go to Maribella for the day, but before that, Gertie's very cool glasses finally answer the age old question. What would John Lennon look like if he was a diva who ate the Sojay? Air drama continues. And baby, there is a plane. Alexia and Marisol just don't want to fly on it. This will cause an issue in Maribella. Lisa serves Jennifer Coolidge in White Lotus, wore sunglasses, met a gay guy, got divorced. Julia asked the gay guy Lisa met to be her kid's godfather. Marisol confuses Stephanie by being nice and throwing her a cool birthday party. Also, Stephanie is mad at Alexia because she likes Marisol more than her plane. And they got into a huge fight. Stephanie comes to the realization that Marisol is the issue in her eyes and asks Jesus to not let her bleed out because there are a lot of knives in her back. Kiki and Adriana make up overall, what do you guys think of Marisol and Richard darling? Dick Branson, the Virgin Airlines guy. Talk about. Find out next week on the Real Housewives of Miami.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah, Charles Branson. That was a flex.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Richard Branson.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Dick Branson.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Dick Brandon Darling. Dick Branson.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

I want to rewind a little bit. Back to OC Sorry, but like I was during the lie detector test. The what? They asked Gina if Her boyfriend had big balls.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

They keep talking about his balls every episode.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, there's a. She had like the centerpiece.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Are you guys aware of your man sized balls? Out of curiosity?

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Yeah.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Mary.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah. Well, actually, speaking of balls, actually, so my cat, George Michael, I got him fixed and then when I took him to the vet.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

No, no, literally, right.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

So I take him to the vet a while ago to like get him a checkup, and it's the vet where I got him fixed at. And the vet goes. He like cups his balls and he goes, did you get him fixed? And I was like, yeah, here. And he goes, oh, they might still be swollen. And I was like, okay. And I was. And he was like, there's nothing to worry about. So. Hey, Travis, I understand you.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Travis's balls just might still be swollen.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

I just never really realized that something like, like. Have you ever paid attention to the size of Connor's balls?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Of course.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Of course.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Okay.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Susie, did you pay attention to Justin's balls?

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Of course they're there.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Susie Evans]

I feel like there's nothing out of the ordinary, but like, you know, little.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Curiosity, you know, from the last pair that you didn't exactly that like, there's a size difference.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

I feel like if you notice, really, Like, I didn't know you think the ball size was something you ladies were.

[Susie Evans]

Well, I wouldn't necessarily even say, like, I'm not necessarily noticing, like, size. I feel like I've had consistently like, like normal balls throughout my life. So I've never.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, I've.

[Susie Evans]

Yeah, I guess I might have a type. But no, I've never noticed anything crazy anywhere. But I think if there were abnormally large balls, I would notice that.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I definitely make sure I stay up to date with the size of not, not, not necessarily the size of Nick's balls. But my sister is in a marriage and her husband's 18 years old and she's, you know, a little bit older than me. So she's always warning me about the balls and the sagginess that does occur. And so I just like to keep up with like, where, you know, where are they hitting?

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Have they dropped you pull out a tape measure.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

So wait, you are. You are judging how well I'm aging by how my balls are looking and I didn't even know this.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Aren't you happy you asked?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I'm doing a lot down there.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Susie Evans]

Men should talk about this more.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

When I'm down there, I'm thinking about a lot, you know, notice something.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I would tell Him.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I feel like if women have to deal with comments about their boobs sagging, men should have to deal with comments about their balls.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

By all means, shame us. Shame away. Like, Yeah, I was just like, this is all. This is all very insightful for me.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Like, I have to think about something. You know, I'm making the grocery list. I'm checking the length of the balls.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Asking if they touch the water yet.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Exactly.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Any ball fetishes in the room?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

No. Nobody. Nobody. Nobody.

[Susie Evans]

Yeah, Maybe Gina. Maybe that's where this is coming from.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Maybe Gina.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Okay.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

No, thank you.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

So Miami.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Miami.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Just balls flying past my eyes right now.

[Susie Evans]

I'm picturing a lot in my head.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I'm not gonna lie.

[Susie Evans]

A lot going on.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, A lot going on up there. Miami.

[Audrey / Not That Cosmic (Astrologer)]

Okay.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

You got Gertie's glasses.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Yes.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Square circle inside.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Pretty cool.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I'm not gonna lie.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I liked them. I thought she looked great. Okay, shout out, Gertie.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I do have to ask, though. Lisa was really funny to me this episode because I'm like, she lived on Star Island. I'm pretty positive. Like, I'm like, she's been around rich people. Why is she acting like this is the first time that she's been around rich people?

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Did y' all see her in the back of the plane? As soon as, like, the lights got off, turned off, the music came on. She, like, ran from the back with, like, her Instagram story out to, like, film content.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Well, she also did just finalize her divorce, so maybe she was like, this is my divorce era. I'm on a private jet. Like, I'm going to this island.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

That's fair.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And meeting this gay guy.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I need to be elegant.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Elegant, yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

You know, I mean, like, can you go. Can you be an influencer and on a PJ and not take that content?

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I'm like, can I eat food and not.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Right.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Literally.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Can I.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Can I get a coffee and not take a picture of the top of the coffee?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Susie, have you been on a pj?

[Susie Evans]

I've never been on a pj.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

No, nor have I.

[Susie Evans]

No.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Kira.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yes.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Oh, three. Oh, you're not gonna ask me Three.

[Susie Evans]

Yeah. Can we get a little info on.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

That friend's birthday party to Mexico after the pandemic? So it was a flying commercial, and we were Covid tested. A bachelorette. A bachelorette. And I think, think one more trip to Mexico.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Wow.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Yeah.

[Susie Evans]

Iconic.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Okay.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Sierra is bougie.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Love that.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Very bougie.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Bougie isn't my aesthetic, in case you guys are wondering.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I haven't been on a pj. I know. That's really surprising.

[Susie Evans]

I'm shocked.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

We got a clarification on Ratchet versus Wretched.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Oh, yeah. Wretched.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

That is not what she meant to say, honestly.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

Kind of sounds the same when she says it.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It does.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I really loved Stephanie in the beginning of this season, but, like, she really is kind of turning me off with this, like, throwing the plane and then being shocked that people are upset about her throwing her plane around. Like, she literally did exactly that. They said, you're a little bossy. And then she flipped on Julia in the car on the way to the airport, being like, well, then you don't.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

You. You're.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

I'm not bossy enough for you to not come on my plane. And it's like, when you throw those things around, like, it doesn't make anybody want to hang out with you.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Like, I don't. You shouldn't be holding this over somebody's head.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Right.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It's like, if she's gonna continue, if she's gonna bring up the fact that I was on her PJ for the next year, like, I'm just not gonna go because I don't want to hear about.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Yeah. Like, and I get why Alexia and Marisol were like, I pass. It's like they're like, larcistic defending her, being like, she spent $40,000 and you guys aren't acting grateful. And it's like, she didn't have to. These women are on a Bravo show. They can get commercial flights. They can fly first class. They don't need to be on your private jet. But the way that you're throwing it around, like, as if it's like your. Your player card. It's. It's not. It's not cute.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

That's just pet.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Petty.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Petty. Pippin.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Well, then also you have, like, Stephanie.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

Lisa ate with that one.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

She did. She did.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Well, you also have, like, Stephanie being so taken aback that Marisol would have thrown her this, like, nice birthday party and acting as if that's a dig towards her. I just don't. I'm like, what make it make sense.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Marisol's being. Being two faced, essentially, because she thinks that she's talking. And that's what I'm saying, where I'm like, Stephanie kind of, like, added in.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

But Stephanie's also being kind of two faced, like they all are. That's their housewives.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Because I'm saying I don't think Marisol's even talking about her either, but she's kind of Making it out like as if it's like, oh, now Marisol's the problem because she's infected the well with Alexia to not want to come on my plane.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

When in reality, Alexa, Alexia just doesn't fuck with you.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

It is confusing though, because Marisol planned the birthday party before and then she was mad at her. So for Stephanie, she's like, wait, but she's mad at me, but there's this birthday party and she doesn't know the logistics of when it was planned.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

And I'm kind of like, so it.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

Does look two faced.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Is it a birthday party or is it like a birthday performance that we all, the whole cast ended up coming by on horse carriage and performance for.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

A two second clip of the show.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Exactly. But I will say props to Stephanie for praying to Jesus Christ, asking about not letting her bleed out because there are knives in her back. That really made me laugh. I was like, that is the Lord's Prayer if I've ever heard it.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

The ending argument scene was crazy.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Well, I don't even even know what was happening. I feel like the camera guys weren't even like, they didn't know who to follow. All of a sudden I got Lisa jumping in, being like lumpy, bumpy, and I was like, what's the rest of the sentence?

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

No, the cameraman that was following Kiki and Gertie, they, they knew what to follow.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Kiki and Gertie were like, this is crazy.

[Justin (Contributor or Guest)]

They said, now that's ratchet.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

No, I think it was a great episode and I'm really interested to see them go to Richard Bernstein's, I'm assuming, island.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

That's crazy. I love that he's a housewives man.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

We love an honorary housewife.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

It was definitely very white lotus coated this episode.

[Host 4 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It was. I loved it.

[Sierra (Host or Contributor)]

Do you like my beautiful, My Beautiful Men? Yeah, sure.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Well, up next we have Jesse Hildebrandt, the niece of Jody Hildebrandt, who is now serving time for some horrific crimes that she committed with Ruby Frankie. I'm sure many of you have heard of this story and if you haven't, you are not going to miss this interview. Just a heads up trigger warning. Obviously we are covering some very sensitive topics including child abuse and things like that. So, you know, it's definitely a bit of a tone shifter of this interview, but certainly a very fascinating story hearing from Jesse, who is also a survivor and obviously has, you know, continues to work through this. Has worked through it. It's very powerful and we really appreciate them taking the time to share their experience with us and just talk about this really just this insane, crazy story. So that is next summer's here and we're all chasing something. A break, a goal, a vibe. Let's not let bad socks and blisters ruin it all. Bombus makes socks and now slides and seamless essentials that keep up with whatever your summer looks like. Whether you are running a marathon on or just a few errands or maybe dressing up for a wedding, Bombas socks has you covered. Take care of your feet people. It's important not all socks are made equally. The comfort of Bombas socks are incredible. Also, they're fun. A lot of cool designs for all kinds of people. Let it really accentuate and compliment whatever you are doing.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

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[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

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[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

No, it's. It's a pleasure, definitely.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

I guess just first question and obviously you know this is a very sensitive topic and a very traumatic story and again we just want to express our appreciation watching this documentary and I'm sure it is the case for anyone who's familiar with with this story, who watches this documentary. Even for people not involved, it's very triggering. It's very uncomfortable to watch because there's so much horrific abuse and anytime children are evolved it's just really hard obviously to digest. Obviously you are one of These victims who had to deal with Jody's abuse. A very difficult story to watch. It's just very triggering for even people like Natalie and I, who are new parents, anyone involved. But obviously, for you, the real victim, one of the victims of Jody, what was the reason for you wanting to participate in this docu series that obviously must have been, you know, difficult to participate and talk about and obviously rewatch.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

There are. I think there are a few different reasons. I think probably the main reason, though, is I felt that in truly understanding how and why something to this magnitude and horror happened, you really have to understand Jody. And in order to understand Jody, I think there's so much unfortunate insight that I could offer because she is someone that is so seemingly like. I mean, if you saw the series in the beginning, she fooled so many people because her messaging is rather innocuous, if. And if anything, it's rather empowering. And so it's like she lures people in. And for it to result in something so heinous and so heartbreaking, I think a lot of people are left confused as to how and why and like. Like, who in the right mind would fall for this? But the thing about narcissistic, psychopathic trauma abuse is that it. It's. It's intentionally made, so it's like to be. To be fallen for, you know, it's. It's. It's very subtle. It's very. What's the word? Little. It's like very little by little, they don't come out swinging. It's not. The first thing isn't like, the heinous abuse. It's like, first. Feels very empowering. It feels like she sees you, she gets you, she understands you, she sees the pain. So I felt like I had some insight into her and her methods that maybe other people could benefit from.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah, it's interesting that you said that. Like, one of the takeaways I got from watching it, you know, even on this show, I'm not a therapist. I'm not any type of professional. We have an audience, and sometimes they ask us questions, and we'll talk about relationships. And, you know, I'm. I get therapy. My wife and I do couples therapy. We learn from that experience. And just watching this documentary, for example, you heard Jody talk about boundaries, right? You talk. Talk about, you know, the importance of that. You. You know, the individual sets their boundaries and then communicates those and those. That. That's correct. That's true. You know, it's just like, these are very, like you said, innocuous, like Seemingly, oh, this person knows the language of, of healthy behaviors and things like that.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

She's a professional.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah. It almost kind of gave me this icky feeling because while I'm always very careful to, hey, I'm not a therapist, you know, this is my opinion, I am in no way, you know, take it or leave it type of thing. It really just goes to show the power we all have when people come to us in a very vulnerable state and just how scary it can be and how, how, how easy it might be to influence someone in a negative way. And it's, yeah, it's just, it's, it's, it's really scary to think about these very positive messages and how they can be manipulated in such a toxic way.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, especially I feel like within this demographic of people, you know, a lot of the clientele may be like, disempowered, disenfranchised women. And within the context of the church, the Mormon church, church, you know, telling a woman that she's empowered and has, you know, she's allowed to have boundaries especially, I feel like the word boundary is something that oftentimes is misunderstood. And the way that even in the docu series she says, you know, a boundary is something that you do. It's not about the other person. Like, you're not supposed to manipulate the other person. But it also is quite interesting and disturbing to me that, like, I feel like two of the words that she uses so often, and it's like binary that she presents is that there's truth and there's distortion, and you're either in truth or you're in distortion. And yet her whole method is taking truth and distorting it. Yeah, for, for manipulate, like manipulative purposes. And so she tells on herself continuously and constantly throughout the series and throughout her, like, messaging is like, distortion, truth, and that's all she is doing.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Did you, in real time, like, know what was happening was wrong or was there just so much brainwashing and you were at such a young age that you were like, I honestly, like, I.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Don'T know, I had no idea. I, I, I, I thought what was happening was, I mean, she's my aunt, she's a professional. The church is promoting and supporting and, and she's using the language and the religion that I was conditioned and brought up, and she's using that same language and those same principles and the amount of emotional, spiritual and mental manipulation that's going on. And then I'm a child, so I have no idea. And I was suffering from pretty Bad religious ocd. So I was very much perfectionist. I was. Was like, I deeply, deeply believed in the. In the Mormon Church. I deeply believed in the Book of Mormon. And so I very much believed that the reason I wasn't getting well and that I wasn't getting fixed was my own shortcomings. It wasn't. I wasn't praying hard enough. I wasn't believing enough. I wasn't being forthcoming enough. I wasn't confessing correctly. I wasn't asking correctly. And so I 100% believed this. And even when I left Jodi, because I ran away multiple times, and then finally I ran away for good. Like, I ended up in a homeless shelter in Salt Lake City under a fake name. Even doing that, I believed that I was failing. Like, I was so weak I couldn't withstand God's test and that I was a failure and that everything that happened to me was because of that. That.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

That's so tragic to hear. Yeah. So even in. In. Even in your escape and running away, it sounds like it didn't feel like you escaping. It's almost like you internalize it as quitting.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And. And I think that very much aligns with a lot of people, like, a lot of the conditioning that the. The LDS Church instills and it's in its members of, like you have. Even though it's proposed as like, you're saved by grace, it's very much touch that's. It doesn't. It doesn't really land that way in practice. Like, you are very much having to try harder, try harder, try harder, try harder. And if it's not working, it's because you're not trying hard enough.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

It's interesting with this doc, really focusing on Jodi. I'm curious. I'm very. My wife has been following the story since the beginning. I've certainly been aware of it, but the focus has really been really up until this point. Ruby, Obviously, she's the YouTube star, she's the quote, unquote, famous one. And certainly she has, you know, deserves to be where she is right now. And she also is guilty of some very horrific things. But was it any, in any way frustrating for you to see more of the attention go to Ruby and her crimes because of her infamy and fame and her celebrity, where it almost felt like Jody was kind of almost getting away with it because she wasn't the focus of that. That. So that. That Ruby was getting.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

No, exactly. I. I mean, I understood. I understood why the focus was on Ruby. It Was, you know, she was the, you know, famous one. They were her children. There was a, you know, documentation of her abuse over the years. Like, by no means is Ruby. Like, she's very much accountable for this, but just knowing what. Who and what Jody is and knowing that, like, all of the. This method and this methodology is from the mouth of Jody. This is like, Jody is the mastermind here. Ruby may, like, this would never have happened without Jody. Like, yes, there would probably have been, you know, some fallout from Ruby putting her children online and being in. Like, there's, like, definitely going to be psychological effects and maybe some abuse from there, but the level of which this abuse was happening would not have happened without Jody. I fully believe that. And so the focus on Ruby, especially, like, on Kevin, and, like, everyone being like, where was Kevin? Where was Kevin? Like, how could. How could anyone do this to their child? And it's like this missing link, this, like, puzzle piece that finally shows the entire picture. It's like, Jody. And really, to understand Jody, you need to understand the culture, the foundation, the structure of the Mormon Church. And without those two components, Ruby doesn't really make sense. You just think, oh, she's just a psychopath. But really, it's. If you really want to understand this, you really need to understand Jodie.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah, it was interesting watching it. To your point, it paints a clear picture of, you know, lack of a better word, the evilness that Jodi brought into this picture. There was one particular scene in the docu series, though, that I found really alarming, and it was when they were talking about Ruby before Jodie came into the picture. And it just, you know, to your point, it's like, whatever. Jodie, you know, to your point, seemed like really, Cap, you know, she brought this forward into the heinouses that it was, but there was a moment when they were showing Ruby about to hit a million subscribers.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

And she's in the car with her children, driving, going I don't know how many miles per hour watching this, and then losing her shit because she missed the moment of going over a million. And it was just like the. It was sad because, like, you know, we're very much involved in this world of online influencing, and we're certainly aware of the pitfall and the narcissistic pull that. That brings people away. But it was like you saw the potential of. Of why Ruby was so caught up in it. And I, you know, couldn't help but wonder if, you know, they always say, you know, predators are good at finding their prey. So to Speak. And it was, it's like, it seemed like Jody saw this kind of person who was so easily manipulated because she, she was so caught up in the fame of being a YouTube star, so much so that she was completely disregarding her own children.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Oh, absolutely. Jodi. I think something that Jodi is, like, unbelievably good at is seeing your weak points. When I was living with her, she would do this thing where she would just start throwing out accusations at you or throwing out verbal abuse and then watching for reactions. And the moment something hits, she'll drill into that. And she is, like, truly, like, so incredibly good at this that it's really hard to explain it to people. And so, yeah, I think, like, the, the, the potential for Ruby to become what she became was there. Like, she, she is already this, like, personality type where, like, her ego and her fame and, like, the Ruby show was the most important thing. You know, willing to put all. That's what I'm saying. Like, there was still, like, abuse going on, but it would have been more. It wouldn't have escalated to what it was to the point where it became torture. Like, and I don't use that, like, lightly. I mean, that literally, that was the. Jody was the catalyst for that. But no, Jody saw that. She saw the potential, and she also saw the level of influence that Ruby already had. She's like, oh, Ruby has this massive audience. I'm going to use that. I'm going to use this. She's very, very good at that. And like, you said, like, predators can smell this from a mile away.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I'm guessing you saw the arrest online or did. Did you hear about it through, like, family or friends?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

So I, I, I was in the middle of moving from Los Angeles to Seattle. Like, I was putting boxes into our, like, my U haul, and I get this text from my cousin, and she's like, hey, how are you doing with the Jody news? And I was like, what do you mean? Like, what Jody? What Jody news? And, like, my cousin and I, like, I don't really have a close relationship with anyone in my family, and so it was just kind of like a. Whoa. My cousin texted me. Wait, what? And then I googled Jody's name, and I, like, I just started hyperventilating and basically just, like, not screaming, but, like, being like, oh, my God. And I just, like, fell over. And luckily my roommate at the time was there, and they are, like, one of my dearest friends. They're actually about to visit me in Berlin tomorrow. So they're like, they were there and just like held me and breathed through it with me. And I was just in a state of complete shock and disbelief and not knowing what way was up and like what was happening was just like, I couldn't process it.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Did you ever think that she would face any repercussions for anything she had done?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

No. I think at one point, yes, when I was younger. So when, that, when in 2012 when her, when she was put on probation, there was a Salt Lake Tribune article that was put out out that I publicly commented on and I said, Jody Hildebrandt is. This is my, my aunt, she's a monster. I. And I said, like, I promise you, this is not the last time you'll hear about Jody Hildebrandt. And unfortunately that article has been like, since archived and I can't find that response. But my family went crazy when they, when that and Jody like lost it. I found out years later that she like dropped her son off, off at my grandparents and left the country after I made that, that comment. And. But I think for my own well being, I had to kind of put to rest the idea of any sort of, I don't know, vindication on my part. I kind of just like had to give up on that because even within my own family, like there was no accountability like my, my parents or anything. There's no accountability. There's no account like even admitting it or like I wasn't even allowed to talk about it. And so for my own mental health and sanity, I had to just like kind of consciously and subconsciously just kind of give up hope that there would ever be any sort of, I don't know, her being held to any sort of accountability.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah, it was particularly tough to watch when you told your story, the participation your parents and your grandparents played, whether they realize what they were doing or they were caught up in their own religious trauma. How have you processed that? And is it just, you know, you mentioned you don't have a relationship with them, but do you separate, you know, the monster that is Jodie with the involvement your family played a role? Or do you kind of lump it all together knowing that like, you know, there was a, there was a part in that conversation where it's like nature versus nurture. It's just like, what happened to Jodie, you know, what abuse? Did she experience something? Or is this someone just like, is there a sociopathic, narcissistic person that, you know, maybe has always been there and she. And it found its way to reveal itself? How do you process that?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, I mean, that's kind of been the reason. The question of the last 16 years. I think, at least at this point in my life, I think that it's both nurture and nature. I think Jody had the predisposition for this, you know, delusions of grandeur, narcissism. I think that was probably, like, there already. And then that was exacerbated by religion, religious shame, and then potentially trauma. Probably trauma. Just the snowball effect of everything in her life that led her to that point. But, I mean, it's. It's hard. I mean, there's been phases of my life that, like, I'm related to her. And I've had moments where I'm like, is this gene in me? And something that I feel like with people that have experienced narcissistic abuse and psychopathic abuse is they make you feel like you are the psychopath and you are the narcissist. And I remember thinking, even while I was there that, like. Like, I. I was the bad one. You know, she made me believe that, like, the reason why I was duct tape, according to her, was that every word that came out of my mouth was a lie. And, like, that literally. I. Like, I was so good at manipulating and lying that I didn't even know when I was doing it. And so I, like, to protect everyone, we had to put duct tape on my mouth. And I believed it. I was like, oh. So then I. So it took a. It took so many years. And there's still moments where I have this moment, like. Like, she was a musician. I'm a musician. She's a therapist. I'm interested in psychology. Like, there were some parallels in our lives where, like, when I would notice those things, it would really scare me. And I've had to, like. I mean, I've had a lot of therapy, a lot of therapy to help me through these. These kinds of. Of thought loops and whatnot. So there's that. And then, you know, she's my dad's sister. And so then it's like, well, is this being in my dad? And, like. Like, my dad is, I would not say, is a very empathetic person at all. I think that empathy is something he really doesn't possess very much of. And so then I'm like, is this just a. Like, a family trait? And it's been exacerbated in Jody? Like, yeah, it's. To process this. I think, with. I'm not being very fluid in my response here. There's a lot of parts, but I think at least in regards to my mother, I have a lot of, often I have a lot of grace for her. You know, it's not all of the time but often I feel I find myself, myself being like, okay, she was born in the 60s to a Mormon family of like seven kids. You know, raised in Salt Lake City, Utah. She married a lawyer thinking her life was going to be this certain thing and then it wasn't. Are, were either of you raised in the Mormon Church?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

No, but I was raised. I have 10 brothers and sisters, very Catholic. I had generally positive relationship with religion. That being said, said fully aware of the shame. I'm not that religious anymore. Thankfully I didn't experience many of the traumas that people in both Catholic and so I'm very familiar with with the shame. The shame and the intensity and the dogma of, of religions.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Like both for your listeners and, and and for you guys, I invite you. There's a really amazing content creator named Alyssa Grenfell and she goes into a lot of like the detail about the ritualistic aspects of the Mormon Church. She goes into like what happens in the temple. What are these like covenants that you're like like really gets into the nitty gritty about how the church hooks themselves into your psyche and your subconscious and into your life. And when my parents went through the temple back in that back in the day they would have had to make a covenant promising they do these sim. Like these motions through their neck, through their chest and through their, their, their stomach of promising that if they talk about it or break these covenants that they'll kill themselves. And so the, the, the level of psychological control that the Mormon church has on its, on its people especially I think to, with the women like if I were had been, if I had been born at the time my mom had been born, gone were the things that she had gone through through I probably would have ended up very much like her. And this lack of feeling like you have any power or, or like the self doubt and the self hatred and the self like the dealing with the shame. I mean with like evangelical orthodox religions, you know, it's very punitive. It's very much like if you, it's very black and white, you're good or you're bad. And if you feel guilt that must be because you're bad. And if you're bad you must be punished. And so there's no real gray area to process fucking up or sorry, can I swear. Yeah, messing up. And unfortunately in my mom's case making a mistake to such I mean, like. Like, I know my mom, like, cares about me in her way. Like, I know that she loves me, but doesn't have, I don't think, the ability to look at herself. I don't think for her to, like, look at and admit to herself that she not only allowed for this to happen, but participated in the creation of that abuse. Like, I think it would kill her. And so she has just put on the blinders, which is also very much a thing in the Mormon religion. You're supposed to just put on those blinders. Like, don't ask the questions. Don't look into the, you know, the. The skeletons in the closet. Don't ask why black people weren't allowed to have the priesthood or about polygamy. Don't ask those things. Just put on the blinders. I think my mom is very much a product of that, and. And it's just so unfortunate that she continues to choose or sit in that reality.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Do you think that there's any world in which your siblings or your parents will watch this docu series?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

One of my brothers and his. His wife, I would say I have the most contact with them, okay. And they seem to be the most open and the most willing to acknowledge. Like, my brother Madison and his wife reached out to me after Jody was arrested and apologized to me. And they're the only ones that apologized to me at all for anything. And my brother apologized that he had invited Jody to his wedding and, like, subjected me to be around her. Her. And, you know, like, I, like, my sister apologized that it happened. But, like, I think it's really common for people to. There's, like, this weird amnesia that I think happens with a lot of people when they, like, apologize for the event or like, the. The thing. Like, they have said that it happened, but then they can't look at their participation or, like, how they also caused harm. But again, I think that just goes back to, like, high demand religion and shame. And that's something I wish the docu series would have gone more into. Is understanding how Mormonism is, like, the bedrock to this. Like, you don't have Jody without Mormonism, and you don't have Ruby without Jody. So I. I really wish they could have. I don't know why they didn't. I'm the Mormon Church, is that their net worth is, like $293 billion, and they had, like, a whole, you know, loft. They have, like, hundreds of lawyers. So I'm certain that probably, probably played a big part of it to me. It all goes back to the Mormon Church.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

What do you remember? You know, obviously you told the story of how your.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Your.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

The. The dishes and how you didn't want to do them, and you. And you went into the basement, and then, then you. You realize that your. Your parents and your. And your family had left you there. At what point did you were you able to tell your parents or your siblings the abuse that you were going through?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

I was already. I had left. I. No point during my stay with Jodi was I ever. I wasn't allowed to talk to my siblings. Also, like, my parents didn't tell anyone what was happening, so my siblings also didn't really know what was going on. Going on. My friends, I wasn't allowed to speak to any of my friends. My friends had no clue. They thought, like, they were, like. When I finally came back to California after, you know, Jody and homelessness, I found out that my, like, some people thought I was dead. People thought I had gotten pregnant and that I was sent away. People had. I gone to rehab. They had no idea. And I, I lost pretty much all of my friends because of this. They were, you know, upset. I mean, I was a teenager, so like, and they were teenagers, so they didn't really understand. But no, I, I. It wasn't until afterwards. There was a moment after I had gotten out and I had been found by a detective on this, like, when I was homeless, that my family wanted me to go get a physical to make sure that I was healthy, because when you're a homeless teenage girl, things unfortunately happen. And I found out during the appointment that it was actually said by Jody. And this doctor was one of her. One of her clients, and he was telling me one. He told me that I had no soul. Soul. Literally. He was like. He set up this premise as to, like, how people can have problems with their soul, but I don't qualify because I don't have a soul. Like, a medical doctor told me that I didn't have a soul and that, like, thankfully, Jody and, like, brought in Jody. And I was, like, so stunned by all of this that by the time I got out of the doctor, my grandma. My grandma had taken me. I just, like, lost it and erupted. And I was, like, so beyond shocked and angry. And then it, like, it didn't. I just couldn't get away from it. And my parents tried to get me back in with Jody multiple times after everything. They tried to, like, like, lie to me and get me into, like, going to dinner with her and, like, get it. It. It didn't just End, like, it continued as well. Well, and then they also tried to get me to do her connections classroom. Like, a couple years later. They were like, we did it. It helped us so much. You should do this. And I'm like, are you out of your absolute goddamn mind? Like, so it's. It didn't just. Yeah. To be able to tell them. Like, I remember one time I was telling my brother, he worked and lived with her for years afterwards and basically built connections Class, classroom.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Oh, wow.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And I don't think he's legally allowed to talk about it, as in, like, Jody fashion. I think there were some NDAs and. And whatnot signed. He participated in that for a long time. And I remember going to him, like, in tears, listing, like, did you know this? And this and this? And tying me up, putting me in a car, making me run, locking me in rooms, duct taping me, starving me. Like, did you know this? And he just looked at me and was just like, that was your experience, not mine.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

So heartbreaking.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

There was just. No. But again, like, this is the thing that is so. Jody is so good at disqualifying you in the minds of others. So I was this angry, rageful teenager. And Jody, you know, would tell my family, oh, Jesse's gonna tell you this. Jesse is gonna tell you that. Jesse's just angry. If Jesse tells you that, like, she prepared my family, like, completely destroyed my reputation, destroyed any sort sense of credibility. So then when I go and say Jody did all of this, there would be like, mm, she told me you'd say that. Yep. And so. And then I'm angry, which just then reinforces this previous identity of being an angry teenager. And so there's no escaping it.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It's just a complete circle.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

One part that was particular, and you kind of referenced it early, but, you know, as a dad watching Kevin being interviewed in this documentary.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

You know, it is. It's hard to process, like, how could this man abandon his children even if he didn't realize what was going on? But you seem to have grace for him. And certainly the documentary talked about, again, just the power and influence that Jody had and just evilness. And they brought in other people to speak to that. How do you see it? Do you see him just as a victim? I mean, and that's what's so muddy about this, is like, you know, where do you draw the line between, like, ruby predator or victim? You know, and oftentimes is the case, it's. It's very sad, which this documentary alluded to. Sometimes the victims end up over time becoming those people. How do you view Kevin and some of the other men who, you know, were ostracized from their family, and as a result, some of this horrific abuse. Abuse, you know, happened to the children.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It's so. It's so tough. Like, the question I have asked myself a lot over, I mean, even before Jodi was arrested, is, like, how do you balance empathy and accountability? Like, how can you hold both of those things at the same time? Should we hold both of those things at the same time? And I lean into the position of yes, because I don't really believe. I think our obsession with punishment is actually something that can. Keeps our punitive system going. But what's the difference between punishment and accountability? And it's difficult to define. I think Kevin reached out to me when this was all starting, and I spoke. We emailed a few times. And whereas I do think I understand the state that Kevin was in, at least as much as I can as an individual, I don't have children, so I can't understand it from that point, but I understand what Jody can do to you, psychologically and spiritually. Something that Jody's daughter, like, her and I would have talked a few times since, and something that she would say that I think is like, encapsulates who Jody is and like, the power of Jody so well, is she would say, I can't talk to Jody because if she told me the sky was yellow, I'd believe her. And that's exactly how it feels, Jody, having her hooks in you. You have no understanding of what is up, what is down, what is right. Like your barometer for any sort of moral compass. This is just destroyed, and your sense of reality is just completely destroyed. I remember when I first left, I would have moments of. Let's say I was driving a car and I would go through a green light in my head. I'd be like, was that green? Is it green or is it actually red? And I'm just seeing it as green. I don't know, like that or. Or I would, like, be using the restroom room. And I'm like, am I awake right now? Am I awake or am I asleep? Is this real? Like, I. I would have these. And it was constant for so many years of like, I don't know what is real because I thought I understood what was real. And then everything was destroyed. And so, I mean, granted, I was a child, like a teenager. He's a full grown man. I'd also. He also. There's also. He has more to Lose. And there's more things that can be manipulated. You know, his wife, his children, and not just his wife and his children. You know, in the Mormon religion, you have to be married inside the church. And in order to go to the top level of heaven, you have to be sealed and be temple worthy in order to do so. And so if Jody's like, your temple recommend is on the line, that's not. That is serious serious. That is your eternal salvation on the line. And not only your eternal salvation, but your family's eternal salvation. And so for him to be like, I'm willing to do anything and everything I need to do, and if I need to like, go live by myself because I'm told that I'm a threat to my children by a person that is, you know, propped up by the church. And the church denies that, that she was on any list, but that is complete bullshit, like complete garbage. She was 100% used by bishops as like, recommended by bishops to these people.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

And so I think some of them saw her influence and power and weaponized it.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

That bishops used her power?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah, people. And people in high places of the Mormon Church, do you think they recognized her power, influence and what she was capable of and used it as a weapon to. You know.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

That's a good question. It's hard because she's also a woman and women are not supposed to have leadership, like not real leadership roles in the church. I honestly think that to me, Jody is a cult leader, but she just got caught in like the beginnings of the cult. And I think part of the reason why is because she's a woman. And if like she were a man in this position within the Mormon Church, I think that there would have of been lot a, a lot more of that happening. I think she was just really good at manipulating bishops. And also like a lot of the things she used a lot of the methods. You know, Mormons really want to like distance themselves away from this and say that she's not a real Mormon or like this isn't real Mormon doctrine. But it's just, to me that's just cognitive dissonance that it's too uncomfortable to look at how close and how real those methods are heart, like in relation to the Mormon Church. So I think that at least like when I was living with her and I would go to my bishop with her and my grandparents, I think she had a lot of power over these bishops and she knew how to manipulate them very, very well.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah, that's interesting.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

It was a really heartfelt part of the docu series, when you talked about the family who helped you get to the shelter, is there any part of you that hopes that this docu series reconnects you with them?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, that was. Yeah, they. I think about it a lot. I think I, I think about them a lot. And, and, and since, like thinking about this release and wondering if they know who I am, like wondering if they know who I actually am now. And yeah, I, I hope, I hope they see it or if they don't see the series, I hope they. Something within the, you know, the trial, my name, something. But I also looked so different. So I'm wondering if they'll even recognize me. I don't know. Yeah, I hope so. That would be incredible.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

In that same spirit, I want to, to shift the conversation. Obviously, sadly, there are so many victims of abuse and all sorts of kinds of terrible people have affected people and we spoke to it earlier that a very tragic thing of abuse is that again, it can become this never ending cycle passed down. But you are someone who seemingly has stopped that in your life. And you've mentioned you've done a lot of therapy. You are a survivor in the truest sense. You are a successful tattoo artist. You're living in Bern land. You really got away. And then for all the people listening who you know are victims in some way or another, maybe not as horrific as you experienced, you know, how were you able to do that? And what are things you can offer our audience who might be listening to your story and trying to figure out a way out, even if it's just in their own head. Right. Because so much of this abuse is the same kind of literal gaslighting of making you question whether you're worthy of surviving this abuse and worthy of moving on with your life. How were you able to do that? That I think would be very inspiring for my audience to hear.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, I guess I want to start by saying when I first left Jody's and was first in like the very beginning stages of recovery, like I definitely participated in harmful behaviors and I definitely perpetuated this onto people around me. Like I was not well at all and I was not intentionally harmful. Like I was definitely never like, I want to go hurt people, but my intention didn't align with my impact. I was very like, when I, in my early, like late teens, early 20s, I was, was not well and barely holding on and I was engaging in self harm behaviors. I was in and out of mental hospitals. I was in really toxic relationships. I participated in really toxic behaviors within those relationships. When I say that, like, like I was, I was on the road to being a part of that cycle. And the things that have helped me the most, lots and lots of journaling, a lot of self reflection, I think a lot of shadow work. Being willing to look at the darkest parts of yourself, but also being like having guidance and help and separating those darkest parts from you. Like what, what is you and what is your abuser like? And for me, like, what is me and what is the indoctrination of the Mormon Church? What is Jody? Because I still have Jody's voice in my head. Often I have nightmares. Most not. Like I still am. I'm definitely not free of this. Somatic therapy was really helpful. There's, you know, EMDR therapy that's specific for PTSD and complex ptsd. There's parts work, I think that has been really helpful. Like even if you're just reading these books on your own, like, obviously having a practitioner is best, but just learning about parts work. There's a really incredible book called Nonviolent Communication that I think really, really helps me identify my, my, like what, what is a feeling? I think oftentimes we really struggle with that. You'll, you'll think I feel like you don't like me. Or I feel that those aren't feelings, those are interpretations. So really getting into like practicing identifying actual feelings and then, and then like learning what those feelings are telling my brain, like, what is my brain making up? Or like what stories are. Are my brain making up? Is my brain making up up? It's, it's an ongoing process. I by no means am finished. I'm not like, I was harmed and now I'm healed. And I know that's not really, like, that's probably not the story. Your listeners or people that are, are going through this or on the, like, you know, are beginning their process of healing. Want to hear? But unfortunately, complex PTSD is a, is a cross chronic condition. And like with chronic conditions, oftentimes it is something that will last years and years and years, if not a lifetime. So it's just a matter of like developing these skills over time. Something that really helped me was, I think with high demand religion and just, I think our society in general, we operate within this binary of good versus bad. We moralize everything in our lives from, you know, food to how we look. You know, being skinny is good and being like. But it's not just about like good or bad. It's like evil and, and like we have a moral component added to it. So recognizing Those moral, like the addition of moral moralization to things to go into more maybe neutral language with yourself. And using the terminology. Goodish for me was like unlocking a magical door, like into a new land. So like I would have so much guilt about doing something and I'm like, oh, I'm just bad. I'm a bad person. And in the series you'll hear Ruby saying things like, I'm just, I'm. I'm a good girl, I'm good. And it's really kind of eerie and strange, like grossly analyzed. And I feel like this is a result of this type of binary thinking. So instead of saying like there's good, good people and bad people or if I was a good person, I would have done this. Leaving that language alone and entering this space of goodish. Like a goodish. A good person may not have done that, but a goodish person would like and allow it just like this, like allowance of nuance and allowance of gray for me was so incredibly helpful to like stop these spirals, these like self perpetuating spirals of shame. And you act out in shame, shame, which then brings more shame and then, you know, the, the cycle continues.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah, that's very interesting. I don't know if you're able to answer this question, but Jody was a licensed therapist. Therapy is something that you really leaned on in your healing and continued to do so. We're huge advocates of therapy. But I do talk to hundreds of people every day who are also in therapy. And it's, it's, you know, this is very scary reality of like therapy as a modality can be very positive, but also just like, you know, religion has a positive impact on a lot of people. But often weaponized and most great things in this world are often can be weaponized for evil. You've seen someone like Jody as a licensed therapist, do some very destructive names and hide behind the mask of a therapist. Have you been able to delineate Nate, you know, for the people listening, like, are there any red flags that you're aware of that for people who might be working with a therapist that maybe they shouldn't be and maybe they're not to the degree that Jody is. Maybe it's just someone who's just not quite qualified or actually helping this person out, but the person's just showing up for therapy, like I'm in therapy and it's just like two years later, like I'm still talking to about the ex. I hank it over and it's like, well, you know, maybe you know, maybe. But have you been able. You've seen the extremes of both sides of what therapy can do from a harmful standpoint and how it can be a life saving thing. Do you have any wisdom to pass along or observations you've experienced seeing both of those extremes?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah, I mean not only obviously Jodi is one of the most harmful therapists I think probably in existence. I've also had a few other therapy experiences that were quite harmful as well. And I was pretty afraid of therapy for a long time and it was so frustrating because I knew cognitively that therapy, like not every therapist is a Jody and that I need to. Did help with processing what I had gone through. But the fear of seeing a therapist was so strong that I, it also kind of trapped me for a long time and I, I went the route of just like doing my own reading, just reading as much self help and as much, you know, therapeutic ref like resources as possible. I think things you can look out for, I think learning to trust your gut. And I know that's so hard. Hard especially even like if you're in a space of like, you don't know what's right, you don't know what's up or down, you don't know what reality is. I find for myself there's like this kind of thinning sensation that I get in my head when I can, when someone's being manipulative. And I've learned just over the years that like when this kind of sensation happens that there's something going on, like not everything is being honest or there's like some deceit happening if you feel bad afterwards and not like, if you feel like that was heavy or that was hard to process or that maybe that was sad. But if you just feel bad afterwards, probably a sign that they may not be the right fit for you. Also I think getting, getting a knowledge of mod, of specific types of modalities because there's so many types of therapy and so maybe doing some research in those modalities specifically and having maybe a baseline understanding of what you're supposed to be learning within those modalities. And if that, if like what your therapist is doing doesn't align with that, then also another sign that's probably not the best. I had a therapist once break HIPAA with me. I had a therapist like it was after Jody and I went to her, her as a recommendation from the church and I started telling her the story of what Jody did and she's like, stops me and she's like, I've heard This before. And I was like, okay. And she was like, yeah, do you have an aunt? And then she, like, said my. One of my other aunt's names. I was like, yeah. And she's like, I was seeing her while this was happening, and she would tell me about this, and I'm like, what? Pretty sure that you shouldn't have said that. But then she then went on and said, yeah, if I hadn't seen your aunt, I don't think I. Like, I don't think I would have believed what you had said if I had not already heard the story. I don't think I would have believed you anyways. And I would, Like, I was like, 19 or 20 at this point, and I remember just, like, sitting there being like, what do you mean you weren't gonna believe me? And that was the first time I had ever had the. The thought that, like, someone that had no contact with Jody, that hadn't been, like, corrupted by Jody, wouldn't believe me. Yeah. And so, like, I never went back to her. Like, that's a thank you, you know, raking of trust. I had a therapist once try to get me, like, he intentionally wanted to get me angry to, like, bring out the real stuff. Like, he literally told me that. And I was like, that sounds like what Jody would do. Absolutely not, like, not ethical. It's hard. It's expensive and it's hard. And you have to continue to find the right one. I know it's. It can feel so discouraging. And I also think this idea that everyone needs to go to therapy, I kind of don't really believe that. Like, I think that people can benefit from self analysis and analysis in general and, like, learning skills. There are ways of learning skills and having self analysis that doesn't necessarily involve spending 150 a week. Like, yes, I think there are definitely certain types of maybe neuroses or conditions that. That would greatly benefit therapy. But I think this blanket statement that every single person needs to go to therapy, I don't necessarily agree with.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, I like what you said about. Just like you said, it feels a little vague following your gut, but just if you feel bad afterwards, it makes a lot of sense. And like you said, there's. There's processing a difficult conversation, and there's like, what Jody seemed to do a very excellent job of is making again, like, it's leaving you more in doubt of yourself or your actions or who you are.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

She would, like, create the disease and then offer you the cure. But every time you Go. You get a little, little bit of the cure, but more disease. And so then it would just kept you stuck in it.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Well, I have to say, like, you know, thank you so much for pulling back the curtain of just all the corrupt and awful things that the Mormon Church does, you know, to obviously not just everyone, but, like, women especially. And also, I'm just, like, so sorry that you went through everything that you went through. You didn't deserve to go through that. I'm sorry no one protected you, you know, you should have been protected. You do have a really powerful voice, though, and I think you should be really proud of that.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Thank you. I. Yeah, I really appreciate that.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

On a lighter note, how did you end up in Berlin? I'm just curious. And obviously you are tattoo artists. We, you know, my wife and I, if we have tattoos and they look like some beautiful works of art, do you. How'd you end up in Berlin? Do you have a favorite tattoo of yours? And what do you. What do you like most about being a tattoo artist?

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Okay, good, fun questions. Yeah. Berlin. I've wanted to live in Berlin for so long. The first time I came here, I think it was 2017, I think 2018. And I just immediately fell in love with the city. And I would keep. For the longest time, I had like an S bond, like a transit ticket in my wallet, and I just kept it there. And every time I would open my wallet, I would see it as, like, a reminder, like, this is where I want to be. And I was on a birthday trip two February's ago. I. I went on this, like, I don't know, to just kind of get away from everything and to just have some, like, a reprieve from all the heaviness. I went on this Europe trip and I met my partner in a karaoke booth at Monster Ronson's. And if you're ever in Berlin, you should definitely check out Monster Onsense. And it's so fun. It is like one of the most fun karaoke. It's like small room karaoke. And we just had this beautiful tryst across Europe. He, like, followed me around Europe for like a month, and I, yeah, we fell in love. And it was not hard to convince me to move to Berlin. I already wanted to be here, so. So, yeah, I moved here and I love the city. It's, you know, moving to a foreign country is definitely not for the faint of heart, even in a city that, you know, most people speak English here, but it's still like, I have so much more empathy and Sympathy for people that are. Have to move to other countries that don't have the luxury of being there, there or the luxury of choosing that they, you know, that people that are displaced, people that are seeking a better life for themselves, running away from danger. Because, like, as a, you know, I don't have kids. I don't have these responsibilities. I, you know, I'm a white person moving to a white country and how stressful and difficult it is. I just. I have so much more or sympathy for people that have to do it for other reasons. But, sorry, not to go heavy again, but to bring back my favorite. My favorite tattoo. That's a good question. I feel like every time I get a new tattoo, it becomes my favorite tattoo, but I have a back piece I'm working on that I really, really love. I'm getting it done in London. This artist's name is Jacob Morris, JCM on Instagram. And then my favorite thing about tattooing is honestly the connection with people. Like, I love making the tattoos for sure, but the application of tattooing is just like kind of a benefit, like a perk for me. It's like you're with someone for so long, like, for hours, times, and you're getting to know them. You're getting to know. And there's something about not just touching someone, but you're also hurting them and permanently changing their appearance that breaks down barriers so quickly that you go from, like, hi, nice to meet you, to like, them telling me about, you know, addiction and trauma and just the most personal stories. And I love. I mean, I love this. It's. To me, that's. If I. If tattooing didn't also include the personal connection, I don't think I would really enjoy it. That's really beautiful.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Well, Jesse, I just want to thank you again for taking the time. I know these conversations aren't always easy to. To live back, but, you know, hopefully, despite all the trauma and abuse that Jody perpetuated, this is, again, continues to shed a light on. On the fact that this stuff goes on and. And what to look for. And I think sometimes it's to your point. Like, you talked about blinders. You know, like, the world is. Sometimes it's easier to just digest when you don't think this type of stuff can happen or it can happen around you. And it's just we don't always want to be looking for it, but it's important to be diligent, and it's important to be aware that this type of evil can exist in our world. And to be mindful of it so that if we are in a position to try to put a stop to it or call it out, we might be hopefully in a better position to do so. So I want to thank you for again taking the time.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

No, my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

And enjoy your friends tomorrow.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Thank you.

[Susie Evans]

It's going to be so fun to.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Be surrounded by your support system.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Him. We love it. Thank you so much.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

All right. Thanks so much, Jesse. I appreciate it.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

That was great. Thank you, Jesse.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Thank you.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Enjoy the rest of your day. Enjoy your friends. We really thank you and yeah.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Yeah. Bye, guys.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Well, the final two episodes of I.D. ruby and Jody A Cult of Sin and Influence premieres Tonight beginning at 9.8Central on ID episodes will be available to stream on HBO Max and Discovery Robbery.

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

Want to thank our guest Jesse Hildebrand as well as not that cosmic. Thank you guys for listening. We'll see you tomorrow. We have Dale and Cat from Bachelor in Paradise joining us to talk about their messy relationship on Bachelor in Paradise, the finale and all that fun stuff. Lots of talking, I am sure. Get ready for some fun tomorrow. We'll see you then.

[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

Bye. Bye.

[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

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[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

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[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

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[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

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[Susie Evans]

Can I have a bite?

[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

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[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

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[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

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[Host 3 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

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[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

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[Host 2 (Possibly Female, Co-Host)]

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[Host 1 (Possibly Male, Main Host)]

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