E994 – Going Deeper with Kat and Dale: BIP Unpacked

Summary

The Viall Files – E994: Going Deeper with Kat and Dale: BIP Unpacked

Date: September 3, 2025
Host: Nick Viall (with Natalie Joy and co-hosts)
Guests: Kat & Dale (Bachelor in Paradise alumni)

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Overview

In this “Going Deeper” episode, Nick Viall sits down with Kat and Dale, fresh from the latest season of Bachelor in Paradise (BIP), to unpack the unique twists of the season, address off-camera rumors, and dive deep into their relationship journey—both on and off the show. The conversation covers show mechanics, public perception, accusations, relationships within Bachelor Nation, and how Kat and Dale are navigating their post-show reality as a couple.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Show Format & Money Twist

• New Season Structure: The format shifted away from forced engagements and towards building authentic relationships.
  • Kat: “...they were more focused on like truly like building relationships...engagements were the forefront of previous seasons, they haven't really worked out that well.” [01:46]
• Prize Money Confusion:
  • Prize initially touted as “up to $500k”, but was split between two couples; after taxes, each only received about $60k.
  • Kat jokes about asking “what are the taxes?” [03:03]
  • Dale: “...if it was winning, it was the biggest thing. The money wasn’t incentive, but you just wanted to win for your partner.” [03:20]

Dale’s Injury & Competition Dynamics

• Dale explains he was competing with a torn lat and tricep.
  • “...before filming, I tore my lat and my tricep...we had no strength competitions the whole time.” [03:57]
  • “I was definitely the weakest link. No question.” [04:42]
• Kat highlights the emotional challenge: “...later in the evening, when I couldn’t handle emotionally things...he...carried the weight and...stood for both of us.” [05:10]

Post-Show Relationship Building

• Living Bi-coastal (San Diego & NYC), navigating secrecy and public attention.
  • Kat talks phases: Phase 1 filming, Phase 2 real-world secret dating. [07:25]
  • Dale: “...I’ve taken 52 flights this year, so I can kind of be where I need to be...home is where I build a relationship.” [09:11]
• Communication & Intent:
  • Both stress honest conversations and intentionality post-show.
  • Dale: “I told Kat this, like, I never wanted to put someone in a box that they didn’t deserve to be in...” [08:21]

Past Bachelor Nation Relationships

• Kat on lessons from her past BIP engagement:
  • “...I kind of didn’t know my needs or wants...I wasn’t seeing those...signs. Watching it back...it’s better to actually take things slow...” [10:48]
  • She journaled daily and spoke with the show therapist to stay grounded. [10:48]
• Dale reflects on Claire:
  • “Claire's in a great relationship. You know, she's got her child, which I'm very, very happy for...it wasn’t about two bad people. It’s just...we were just different.” [21:24]
  • “I did have this want and this need to...heal someone’s pain...” [21:30]

Current Relationship Status

• Both have said “I love you” but prefer privacy about intimate details.
  • Dale: “...there’s certain things that you share with people. Cause you’re proud of. But there’s also things that you kind of keep tight.” [13:38]
• On future plans:
  • Both desire children—Dale: “One of the greatest gifts in the world will be to be a father...seeing my partner in my child’s eyes...” [14:39]
  • Not rushing engagement or weddings; enjoying exploration phase.

Navigating Challenges & Compatibility

• Discussed learning each other’s conflict styles and responsibilities.
  • Kat: Dale’s drive to be a “good provider and partner” creates self-pressure. [16:10]
  • Dale is primary support for his family; Kat had to learn not to misinterpret his busy-ness as lack of interest. [17:55]
• No “icks” but learning mutual understanding.
  • “It’s not that deep. It’s all good.” – Dale [18:42]
  • Kat’s long phone rants, Dale’s strategy: “I turned the volume down and put it on speak and start cooking.” [18:53]

Public Perception & Editing

• Kat feels she was more accurately portrayed this season. “I was a different person two years ago...this year...was definitely closer to true to form.” [19:44]
• Dale only caught up on Paradise seasons last minute and preferred not to know contestants’ pasts. [20:34]

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Addressing Controversies & Accusations

Accusation: Kat Entered with a Boyfriend & iPad Rumor

• Kat denies having a boyfriend on arrival: “I did not come in with a boyfriend. I definitely did leave with one. So that’s point blank period there.” [31:50]
• Clarifies she was seeing an ex before the show, but no exclusive relationship.
• Kat denies the iPad/extraphone rumor: “I did not have an iPad...I did not have a laptop. No.” [35:57]
• Dale’s take: “...if there’s any truth to this...we’ll figure it out after the fact...the reality was we could be going home and those things we could figure out.” [37:34]

Friendship with Sean

• Kat explains “best friends” was overstated: “We were friends, but I wasn’t considering us a close friend...he met my ex twice.” [44:57]
• Host Nick affirms “friend” is used loosely in Bachelor Nation. [47:00]

Kat Being Called a Bully

• Nick reads a DM from Parisa calling Kat "a bully...everyone was scared of her." [51:04]
• Kat is visibly upset, notes lack of direct communication from accusers: “Nobody that has said any of the things...has had a conversation with me or gotten to know me...” [56:21]
• Dale: “You can do everything right and people are still going to have opinions.” [54:05]
• Kat: “I am Italian. I speak very intensely, and I care very deeply...if I make you feel that way, I would love to have a conversation about it.” [53:28], [57:31]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Kat on Bachelorette Engagements:
  “If you see, even though engagements were the forefront of previous seasons, they haven’t really worked out that well. So...whatever they’re doing this time...worked a little bit better because we’re together.” [01:46]
• On Emotional Support:
  “...the whole concept was, like, your partner carries, like, the weight of the world. And...that was, like, a physical challenge. But later...he technically...carried the weight and, like, stood for both of us.” – Kat [05:10]
• Dale on Love:
  “Love is not enough. It is the most important thing. But to make a relationship work, there’s a lot of other things that go into it.” [28:21]
• Kat, self-aware:
  “...I am never, like, afraid to be my full self, and I’ll always own anything...” [48:08]
• On Being Called a Bully:
  “Being called a bully...my intentions are always like, to help people...sometimes I don’t see how I make people feel.” – Kat [53:28, 56:21]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Show Format & Prize Discussion: 01:06–03:43
• Dale’s Injury/Competition: 03:46–05:30
• Post-Show Logistics (Long Distance etc.): 06:01–09:53
• Processing Past Relationships (including Claire): 08:21–10:48 & 21:24–22:32
• Defining the Relationship Now (kids, love): 13:23–15:40
• Compatibility, Challenges, ‘Icks’: 16:10–18:42
• Editing & Bachelor Nation Dynamics: 19:44–21:12
• Addressing Rumors (Boyfriend/iPad): 31:03–36:47
• Handling Sean Friendship Rumors: 43:43–47:09
• Being Called a Bully & Emotional Response: 51:04–57:42
• Relationship Plans/Proposal Preferences: 60:44–62:29
• Final Reflections: 62:29–64:39

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Tone and Dynamics

• Relaxed and candid, often humorous (playful banter about the show’s format and rumored drama).
• Supportive and introspective—Kat and Dale repeatedly express gratitude for one another and quick to clarify misunderstandings.
• Sensitive; Kat is moved almost to tears on being labeled “a bully,” revealing real effects of reality TV drama.
• Open about past experiences, both positive and painful; mature approach to current relationship.

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Conclusion

This “Going Deeper” episode offers Bachelor Nation fans an unfiltered, thoughtful look at post-show realities for Kat and Dale—beyond the TV drama. They tackle widespread rumors, recount their journey through physical and emotional challenges, and reflect earnestly on what it takes to build a public relationship that’s also a real one. Despite Bachelor Nation’s characteristic chaos, Kat and Dale’s shared outlook on communication, growth, and authenticity shines—leaving the door open for their love story to continue and deepen off-screen.

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For listeners seeking drama, insight, and inspiration on making love work—in public and private—this episode delivers an honest, engaging recap, emphasizing empathy and maturity over manufactured reality TV narratives.

Transcript

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[Kat]

You're crazy.

[Host]

Dale Cat. Welcome to the Vile Files.

[Dale]

Yeah, it's. It's good to be here. We're. We're wrapped.

[Host]

Are you okay?

[Kat]

We're okay.

[Dale]

I don't know what to do with my hands.

[Kat]

I know. I'm like, what do I do with my body?

[Host]

Do you need to breathe?

[Dale]

Yeah, no, we're good. Let's get into it, man.

[Host]

So you guys are together?

[Kat]

We are.

[Host]

Honestly wasn't sure how it's gonna play.

[Co-host]

Out, you know, Are you bummed that you didn't leave with a ring or are you like, you know what, girl? Then they're done. That I'm good.

[Kat]

No, I'm totally fine with out ring.

[Host]

Like the way the show was formatted, obviously different, like the new format, like, I almost like forgot about the engagement element.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I feel like it made the engagements less like you're like, oh, okay.

[Host]

It's like, yeah, the money, I guess.

[Co-host]

But like the money.

[Kat]

I think they were more focused on like truly like building relationships. If you see, even though engagements were the forefront of previous seasons, they haven't really worked out that well. So like, whatever they're doing this time around, I think worked a little bit better because we're together.

[Dale]

And I also think like, you know, people focus on the money aspect. But when you're actually on the show, granted some of that's in the back of your mind, but it wasn't a topic of conversation with any of us. So we knew that we had to compete at a certain point, But I think it made people dive in a lot deeper. So if they had a connection or there was something that they were really trying to build, it's like you were going all in and trying to find even more common ground and support your partner.

[Host]

I'll be honest, I really wanted someone to take all the money.

[Kat]

I mean, that would have been good TV.

[Host]

500.

[Dale]

500 racks. I mean, it is life changing.

[Host]

So I was a little confused. How did it go from up to $500,000 to two couples had to split 250.

[Kat]

Did you expect anything less?

[Co-host]

As soon as they said half a mil, I was like, no one's getting half a mil.

[Kat]

Yeah, like, I mean, at the time, you were really expecting that to be the case, but then as it went on, you're like, oh, wait, they said opportunity. Like, it's all about the wording.

[Dale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Co-host]

It's like, oh, well, we'll try.

[Host]

I mean, like, when you bring it, they're only. They're only getting 75k each of them.

[Kat]

That was my first question to him when they told us. I go, what are the taxes? I was like, I need to know. I don't understand this one.

[Host]

The 250. Divide that by half. 125. Divide that by half. It's not even 75.

[Dale]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, the taxes are getting like, 6.

[Co-host]

Wow.

[Kat]

Still, I mean, that is a whole income.

[Host]

I'm not sure what the Costa Rican.

[Kat]

Oh. Tax.

[Dale]

I don't know. But actually, you. I mean, I guess you could get creative, but, I mean, regardless, I think at the end of the day, if it was winning, it was the biggest thing. The money wasn't incentive, but you just wanted to win for your partner, and you wanted to win for each other. So that was, you know, one of the tougher things, at least for me personally. Just because at the end of it, I felt, you know, a little letdown just because I had felt like I let Kat down a little bit.

[Host]

But why do you feel like you let Kat down?

[Kat]

Boy things.

[Dale]

Boy things. I mean, the competition was strong enough.

[Host]

It was funny when we were watching it, I go, I don't know. Dale's a pretty big guy. And then, like, seconds later, you fell in the pool.

[Kat]

Oh, guys. His crush out was actually.

[Dale]

I was frustrated. So before filming, I tore my lat and my tricep, and we had no strength competitions the whole time.

[Host]

How did you tear?

[Dale]

I was actually in Costa Rica well before the show, and I Was working out in training, and I did, like, a pull up and my hand slipped off the bar. Caught my arm right here. I didn't even know my lap was torn until halfway through paradise. But that's not an excuse. But it was a frustrating experience.

[Kat]

No, that's an excuse. Not an excuse.

[Co-host]

I made a good excuse.

[Kat]

No, that's why I was trying to.

[Dale]

Tell him, hey, rehab, Pete, pt. But at the end of the day, like, it's. It's not something I ever talked about because it didn't matter. Right. We're gonna go out there and just try to put it all on the line. But. Yeah.

[Host]

Well, they always say you're only as strong as your weakest link.

[Dale]

Yeah.

[Host]

Do you think you were the weakest link or do you think it was.

[Dale]

I was definitely the weakest link. No question. No question. I was like, that's why I took it so hard.

[Kat]

He was holding the whole thing. I was like, trying to hold more. I remember being like, we can, like, call it, like, I don't want you to hurt yourself. I think we saw because.

[Co-host]

Did you know about his injuries before?

[Kat]

Well, I found out how extensive it was, kind of like during the competition. You know, boys, like, don't like to show their weakness. So, like, as it was going on, I was like, oh, like, he's actually injured. Like, I don't care. Like, let's call it. But it's fine.

[Dale]

Cleared by a doctor. It's all. It's all gravy.

[Kat]

I think what was amazing about that day is, like, the whole concept was, like, your partner carries, like, the weight of the world. And, yeah, that was, like, a physical challenge. But later in the evening, when I couldn't handle emotionally things like, he technically, like, carried the weight and, like, stood for both of us. So in a way, like, we kind of wanted a better challenge because it was. Was put to a test.

[Dale]

Yeah. And she. She definitely calmed me down just because I was so frustrated after the fact. And I think that's kind of a dynamic throughout the whole season. Sometimes one of us would be high, you know, the other would kind of bring us back down and ultimately, like, move past it quickly. The end of the day, it was just that we were standing together, you know, throughout the entirety of the season.

[Host]

Well, we'll get into the details of paradise, but since you guys are together, I'd love to know what you guys have been up to. Like, when did you guys stop filming?

[Kat]

Last week of maybe last.

[Dale]

Yeah, we. Yeah, last week of May, September.

[Host]

Is it the first? Second. Happy September.

[Dale]

Everybody happy, happy September.

[Kat]

Virgo season.

[Host]

So, yeah. So you guys have been together for how long now?

[Dale]

What is that?

[Host]

June?

[Kat]

July?

[Co-host]

August, September?

[Kat]

Wait.

[Dale]

I guess, technically, if we talk about after the show. Since June.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dale]

So it was. Go ahead.

[Host]

You live in San Diego, you live in New York.

[Dale]

Yep.

[Host]

And so what, like, did you guys. Because obviously you left paradise as a couple, but with kind of unclear, like, yeah, yeah. Like, for all. For all we knew, like, the next day, you guys could have been like, all right, yeah, nice knowing you. Like, as you guys left paradise, like, did you. What conversations did you guys have? Was there, will you be my girlfriend? Will you be my boyfriend? Like, how did you guys become an actual couple outside of a reality TV environment?

[Dale]

I think the same way we approached it during the show, but we also. We had a lot of the conversations of things that were important to us, you know, if we're going to build this into a strong relationship. And I think we were realistic about, you know, just our lives before things, you know, our priorities. And we. We took. Took the time. Obviously, anytime you get into a situation, there's stuff from the past that comes up on both sides. But I think communication is the biggest thing and just being very, very clear and having some of the hard conversations, but also, like, speaking to the things that we both wanted or both want out of a relationship in the future.

[Co-host]

So were you, like, will you be my girlfriend?

[Kat]

Well, I actually asked him on TV because it was a joke. I kept calling him my boyfriend, like, but I hadn't. Like, technically, we hadn't established that. So I wrote, like, the are you my boyfriend? Yes or no thing. But we definitely did speak about, like, how we were gonna move when we left paradise, because even though the money was there, we're like, well, no matter what, we're still leaving together. And I think I call it, like, phases. Like, that was. Phase one was filming, and phase two is, like, the real challenge, like, watching it air, going through life, like, navigating secrecy, like, trying to do things to build a relationship without being able to, kind of because of the publicness that comes with it. And I think that's, like, a real testimony to, like, our strength. And I think we've handled it really well. But, yeah, I mean, he was in San Diego, like, by three days after filming, after you stayed there for a little bit. And then we were just kind of, like, trying to see each other anytime we could. I feel like we've made a really good effort, and I can't really go to New York because it's too public. But even hiding out, what were some.

[Host]

Of the tough conversations that you guys had to have?

[Dale]

I mean, I. I was very honest when I first came into to the show. Like, I didn't want to fall back into old patterns. I'm someone who checks out, and I'm not a big dater, but, you know, and I told Kat this, like, I never wanted to put someone in a box that they didn't deserve to be in. Also, like, I was worried was I going to be able to feel again after a previous relationship that, you know, someone who's a great person. It just didn't work out.

[Host]

Are we talking about Claire? Are you talking about, like, oh, it's after. I'm like, out?

[Dale]

Yeah.

[Host]

Okay.

[Dale]

Yeah. But I think doing well from. From what I know now, which is, you know, it's great, but you just move. Move past things. So I think a lot of it was things that I had to deal with, you know, personally. And, you know, we talk about locations and how things like that would work, which is something that, you know, we're, you know, gonna navigate together.

[Co-host]

Are you pretty settled in New York?

[Dale]

I've been there 10 years. You know, I've got my agency and some businesses there. One of the good things is that, I mean, I've taken 52 flights this year, so I can kind of be where I need to be. But I've also said that for me, home is where I build a relationship, and that is kind of what I always stick to. So there's a lot of moving parts. But I think we're both understanding that, like, you know, we have our priorities with our life and our career, but if you're going to build a life, you eventually have to make some tough decisions, and that's what we're navigating right now. We can be public and just really enjoy ourselves, which is great. And all that other stuff will work itself out. Unfortunately, we've got the means and the ability to kind of navigate that.

[Host]

Kat, you obviously ended paradise last time you got engaged.

[Kat]

I did get engaged and I did.

[Dale]

Trending. Trending.

[Host]

Hey, listen, you're not gonna get any.

[Kat]

Cool.

[Dale]

Kids are doing it.

[Host]

You're not gonna get anything.

[Kat]

You gotta do it once, I guess.

[Host]

Yeah. So, I mean, obviously, like, that comes with, you know, just like. I don't. Maybe not ptsd, but like a. More of a. How did you want to approach this experience different than last, Knowing that, like. Yeah, I mean, it's very complicated entering. You both know this. Starting a relationship on TV very fast. Very intense. You want it to be real. There's a real element of it, but there's a. There's a part that's just. It's not real.

[Dale]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because you just have to get to know each other. I. I mean, maybe you've spoken out in the past, maybe you haven't, I don't know. But, like, why didn't that relationship work and coming into this experience, what did you want to. How did you want to move differently? Specifically you?

[Kat]

Yeah, lots of things. Well, I think just as we grow and evolve, like, we're different people. The version of myself back then, and especially that last paradise, I kind of didn't know my needs or wants. I kind of would just, like, allow anything. So even though there was blatant, like, things that said maybe this isn't your person or you should probably, like, take like, slow down a little bit, I wasn't seeing those, like, signs. And then I think being in those environment and stuff like that, you set this, like, expectation that it's going to go a certain way and you'll kind of, like, convince yourself that it's going to go that way no matter what. And then watching it back and moving through my own, like, things afterwards with other relationships, I learned a lot about, like, okay, it's better to actually take things slow and let things happen the way they're supposed to. So this time coming in, I mean, I was like, actively journaling every day that really matters. I was just like, making myself very present. If I did feel like I was kind of getting wrapped up in the moment. I was checking in with, you know, our. The therapist, like, almost every three days or so, just to kind of, like, reground myself and being very, like, aware that emotions are forming here. But still there's so much more to learn about someone after. So, like, just letting things play the way they're supposed to, but. But not putting so much emphasis on how it's gonna end, essentially, if that makes sense. Like, I just didn't want to set these, like, unrealistic expectations then end up, like, hurting my own feelings. But I think having him too, like, he's kind of already gone through it as well. Like, we had that, like, connection. So I felt a little bit more safer in that. I think what I struggled with before was trying to navigate somebody that you really didn't know in real time and trying to handle all the things that come with the airing of the season. And that was really difficult. But I think even with the challenges and just like, time that we had Spent together, I really got to see his character, how we face adversity, how we move through things to feel at least safe enough to try outside, knowing that it still might not work.

[Host]

What phase of the relationship are you guys in right now?

[Kat]

I mean, phase one, phase two?

[Host]

I don't know. Boyfriend and girlfriend. We're not. This is like, how we're seeing each other.

[Dale]

No, no. No engagement talks or. But I think, like, you know, you have the show, and we built the foundation there. I think when we talk about after the show in June, it was still a deep exploration phase for the both of us. You know, we had many conversations, Things that sprung up with both of us that weren't created by the other partner. Right. You know, now moving. Moving forward, we're just in a very, very strong place. I don't really know how falling in love.

[Co-host]

Are y' all in love?

[Kat]

Oh, you guys, like, want, like, the bachelor terms?

[Co-host]

Well, I mean.

[Host]

I mean, we like to make fun of them, but, I mean, also. Yeah, but, like, also, have you guys said I love you?

[Kat]

We just. Yeah. Yeah, I guess.

[Host]

You sure?

[Kat]

I mean, he doesn't like to, like, talk about.

[Dale]

About what?

[Host]

You guys have a public relationship.

[Dale]

I know, I know, but we always, like, also, I think I've always been. You go on a show, there's these aspects, and it's also. There's certain things that you share with people. Cause you're proud of. But there's also things that you kind of keep tight. But, like, there's been no doubt. I said it on the show, like, you know, I love and care for Kat deeply. We have all the conversations of what it looks like, you know, if it's kids, if it's, you know, a home and what we want. So, yeah, I guess I've never just.

[Kat]

Phased, like, a relationship, but the love is there. The love has grown. We do express like, that to one another other. I'm just still very, like, now we're moving to, like, the fact that now we're going to be public and then it's going to have its own things. And honestly, we can probably grow even deeper. It is still really difficult to, like, try to build a relationship in private, long distance. So now that we have that, like, ability to do that, it's just going to give it even more space to grow and evolve.

[Host]

But do you both want kids? I know you just mentioned kids. Is that something you want as an individual?

[Dale]

Yeah, I think one of the greatest gifts in the world will be to be a father. I think, you know, with A child. Seeing my partner in my child's eyes is like a gift, you know, that I look forward to each and every day.

[Host]

How old are you?

[Dale]

36.

[Host]

How old are you?

[Kat]

29.

[Host]

Okay. And I was it safe to say at this stage in both your lives, you're not. You're not dating or having a boyfriend and girlfriend, knowing that you're two individuals who, like, want to have a. Yeah, I was.

[Dale]

I was never a big dater before. I think taking time. For me, it's always been take time to. To meet someone and get to understand them. Well, you know, the relationship will form in its, you know, on its own. But I'm not trying to waste my time. I'm not trying to waste anyone else's time. And I think, you know, even with paradise and after the fact, like, it saw the way it ended, but it's like, hey, you know, I'm standing here with you. Like, we're going to go through the conversations. We're going to do what we have to do to build this as strong as possible, but we're also, you know, and we're going to support each other. So, yeah, we're not just trying to, like, casually, you know, hang out.

[Kat]

And I mean, he's met my family. He's met my cat. That matters a lot.

[Dale]

It's all about the cat. Cat daddy.

[Kat]

Yeah. Has a relationship with my cat.

[Host]

Well, in the four or five months you guys have dated, what's something each of you have learned about the other person that is like an obstacle or an ick or a challenge where it's just like, okay, well, we can work through that.

[Co-host]

You know, take some time.

[Kat]

That is literally my response. We can work through that.

[Host]

You know, what is. What is something? I'm sure there's gotta be something.

[Kat]

I mean, I think I've just learned about Dale, like, how, you know, I actually, like, we kind of saw it in on TV a little bit. But he cares so much about being like a good provider and partner. And I think he puts so much pressure on himself. So if things are expressed where he feels that, like, almost like he's not doing the right thing or not doing enough or disappointing somebody, it can make him very like, no, no, no. I'm this, that, and the other, and he things very logically. I'm a little bit more emotional based and kind of like the textbook stuff. And I think that learning through how we both interpret things and having like, trying to adjust or at least understand that from one another has allowed us to really, like, any conflict or things that we need to talk about. It brings us closer.

[Dale]

Yeah. I think a big thing is it's more just understanding, and that's something that comes with time. Like, you know, our careers are different. We're both really focused on our life and our careers, you know, flexibility, but also, like, you know, I got a lot of people relying on me, People who, you know, I pay their. Pay their rent or at least, you know, chip in on it, obviously. So I wouldn't say it's like, it's not an ick or a red flag or anything like that, but it's just the understanding that, like, I gotta grind, you know, And I like working. I'm in a phase where, like, I'm very, very passionate about the things that I'm doing, and I take care of a family. You know, I'm gonna retire. My dad, he's not doing it himself. You know, my. My siblings. My sister that has physical and intellectual disabilities, we just took her out of her group home. You know, I, you know, helped pay for my. Our house back in South Dakota. So I think it's just the balance of responsibilities, not only with our relationship, but I do provide for a family currently. And she's been extremely supportive and understanding. But I know it can be frustrating.

[Kat]

I think I had to learn that, like, yeah, if he's working, like, that doesn't mean he doesn't like me any less. You know, little bit of anxious attachment definitely sparked in the beginning, and we had to talk about it. He's like, listen, just because I'm, like, not, like, there or whatever doesn't mean that I'm not thinking about you any less or whatever. So those are, like, things that I had to work through within myself, too, to understand, because I also. This is a new relationship dynamic. And again, not being able to be public has really affected that, because a lot of things we probably could do together.

[Dale]

Yeah.

[Kat]

That now we can.

[Dale]

Weren't in the cards.

[Kat]

Yeah. We just couldn't because it would be public. But, yeah, just definitely.

[Host]

So there's been no icks.

[Kat]

What is.

[Host]

I don't, like. You haven't tripped over.

[Kat]

I definitely give him the ick in some capacity. I, like, there's no way that I'm just like, I. He just, like, plays it off. Yeah.

[Dale]

I'm just like, I. I often say, it's not that deep. It's all good.

[Kat]

It's okay. I mean, probably when I'm, like, just going and rants on the phone, and you just, like, put the phone. I did not know he did that?

[Host]

Oh, no, no.

[Dale]

I turned the volume down and put it on Speak.

[Co-host]

And he starts, like, cooking.

[Kat]

I guess I'm just talking. No, I'm. Screams and out spewing about life or like, something. Never at him, but like, yeah, I'm thinking. And I'm like, hello? He's like. Like, I'm here.

[Dale]

Yeah, I'm here.

[Kat]

And I was like, oh, my God. Even know that. Like, how long have I been going in the past? Like, if that was the case, like, I would be like, the. The relationships. Yeah, they were very understanding the way he is, but he just kind of, like, accepts me for who I am so that it's an. I'm sure it gives you the ick, but I.

[Host]

Well, we've obviously covered the show. We think it's a fun, silly show. We don't take our commentary that seriously. I preface that by saying we've called you crazy.

[Kat]

So fair. That's a good crazy, though.

[Host]

Yeah. Which we appreciate. You're excellent tv. You're like. You're like, oh, yeah, I learned that.

[Dale]

She's. She's.

[Host]

She's coming in hot. But, like, yeah. Do you feel like you were accurately portrayed on this show?

[Kat]

I think this second round was very closer to true to form, But I just also think I've evolved as a person in general. Like, you know, you can't have everyone's personality or characteristics be shown to the fullest extent. I do think things were taken out of context a little bit more than they should have a few years ago, but I also gave them that. And I definitely didn't know how to manage or regulate my emotions. Like, there was just. I was a different person two years ago. I think this year or this time was definitely closer to true to form. I wouldn't. I actually was really impressed with how they were editing everyone. But, I mean, I am who I am. I go on a reality TV show. In the middle of your 20s. Like, you're gonna have some ups and downs for sure. My growing pains just happen to be, like, broadcasted on national television.

[Co-host]

But, Dale, had you watched any. Had you kept up with any batch? You hadn't?

[Dale]

Like when I came on to the beach, because I committed officially four days before filming. Wow. And it was something that I was definitely open to doing. Committed four days before. And I kind of caught up a little bit, like, on the flight down to Costa Rica. But I also didn't want to dive in too much on People's previous. I had no idea who was on the flight. I met Justin before, but outside of that, I didn't know anybody.

[Host]

Was this the first time you were asked to come back to Bachelor Nation?

[Dale]

Yeah, I was pretty clear, like. And it was. I didn't have a bad experience. You know, certain things happen.

[Host]

Experience.

[Dale]

Yeah. Very unique experience.

[Kat]

I haven't even.

[Host]

Did you feel shortchanged? I mean, like, that was a. I mean, I don't know how much you've spoken about showing up to a show and then someone demanding to get engaged to you. I don't. Like, did you feel pressured?

[Dale]

I didn't feel shortchanged on anything. I'll always say if I make a decision or I say, like, I did that, like, by. By my choice. Claire's in a great relationship. You know, she's got her child, which I'm very, very happy for. It's just, you know, you go through those, and I think what I did learn is, like, I did have this. This want and this need to. And because of my upbringing and some of the things that my mom had to deal with, I always. I wanted to. To be that person who could heal someone's pain or I wanted to be as good of a person as possible, or I believe that if you try hard enough, you can make it work with anyone. And it wasn't about two bad people. It's just. We had. We were just different. And sometimes that doesn't line out, you know, and going into this, like, you know, fast forwarding, I was. Had moved through my past relationship. I felt like I was in a great place in life and career. Honestly, I was really burnt out, and I was like, I just want to give up control. So it was a big thing for me to go on. And then I said this earlier. I didn't want to put anyone in a box based on, like, fears and concerns or insecurities that I had. You know, I never watched Cat Season before. I heard they were pretty. Pretty entertaining.

[Kat]

She works. It's a great work of art. Oh, my God.

[Dale]

And I truly probably won't watch him. She tried to show me a clip.

[Kat]

I haven't seen his.

[Dale]

You tried to show me a clip one time?

[Kat]

Yeah. I was to choke the grim.

[Dale]

I think the clip of Dale.

[Kat]

No, of me.

[Host]

Of you. You try to show him.

[Kat]

I tried to show him, like, one clip of me being funny. Like, I thought it was funny. You know, like, about men pissing me off. Like, that's hilarious. But I hadn't seen his either. And also, coming into the season, I knew not.

[Host]

If you blinked, you would have missed it.

[Kat]

I heard I heard. I heard all the tea. Previously. I came into paradise knowing every single thing about every single man. I came in with my best friends. Like, my best. My best friend was the Bachelorette, so I knew everything about everyone there. And I haven't watched or been connected since I left. So coming in kind of with like a blank space, I think really helped you, because then you get to know someone for what you see and not based on previous judgment.

[Dale]

Also, like, one thing I got, if someone was like, oh, cat this, cat that. Like, the thing I saw immediately was growth. Like, it was. It was apparent even just how she's talked about her past experience to this one. And for me, that was the biggest thing. And that's what I focus on. Because we all go through shit in life. Like, nobody's perfect. We all have, you know, some traumas or we have triggers and stuff. But it was. It was extremely apparent to me early on, which is why we stayed together throughout the whole thing.

[Host]

As a Packer fan, Dale, I've known about you for a long time.

[Dale]

Nothing too glorious, but I got the shot.

[Host]

But Packer fans love, love their undrafted free agents. Yeah, they're very athletic wide receivers. Yeah, I was. I knew all about you. There was a chance we were ruined for you.

[Dale]

Green Bay was the most amazing experience. For me. It was a chapter.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Kat]

I.

[Dale]

To this day, I love Green Bay also. They got Micah Parsons.

[Host]

I'm aware. Yeah.

[Co-host]

All right. So do you keep. Like, who is your team?

[Host]

Yeah, do you have a team?

[Dale]

I don't really have a team. I follow the league. I've hosted, like, you know, during a few Super Bowls, and I still am very involved with the NFL.

[Host]

But you had. You had a. You did. You did some stuff with the Vikings, did you not?

[Dale]

No, no, no. So I was Packers. I. I didn't have a glamorous career.

[Host]

Didn't you have. But you scored a regular season touchdown. Have you not?

[Dale]

Nope.

[Host]

You never did?

[Dale]

No, I got. I was injured toward labrum, came back to Chicago, so I was there with Levy, Smith, Mark Tressman. Okay.

[Host]

And then maybe you weren't as good as I thought.

[Kat]

I was like, don't let him know that.

[Dale]

I played one year of football after turning down.

[Host]

I do remember when they signed you, though. I remember this day. Your. Your rascar was pretty high.

[Dale]

Yeah. I mean, 4, 3, 8, 40, 42 inch bird. At least I had a little juice in the legs. But no, it was just a chapter. But it gave me so many opportunities after. I love the game. I love competing, but I feel like I'm more connected with the NFL now than when I was playing honestly.

[Host]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. Listen people, Therapy is important. It's great to get things off your chest. When you bottle things up, bad things can happen. We certainly know how intimidating therapy can be. It can be inconvenient. Also can be very difficult to find a great therapist that you connect with, and that's what matters most. What's so great about BetterHelp is they help alleviate all of those pain points. They're working with over 30, 000 different therapists, so the chances of you connecting with a therapist that's right for you. And you can keep switching therapists for free until you land on someone that you feel great about. And it's incredibly convenient. All you need is a device to connect with your therapist.

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[Host]

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[Host]

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[Co-host]

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[Host]

If if if you guys don't work out, why won't you.

[Kat]

Intense question life, maybe like career or like.

[Co-host]

I mean, I think I'm staying in the public eye, like just in general is hard on any relationship. It's strange.

[Kat]

Well, she's been so good though. Like I couldn't be with a better person to manage the anxieties that come with that because I love to like, get myself worked up. And he brings me back down to earth very quickly because of just his, like, you're just like grounded in who you are and it helps me like reground myself. So honestly, that's been our least challenging thing is the public response.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dale]

And for me, like, I don't the. It doesn't really affect me as much as most and it's probably just because I tune out or like I'm so kind of tunnel vision on certain things. But I think if anything it's. It'd be priorities in alignment.

[Kat]

Right.

[Dale]

I think like, love, like those things are always there. But for any relationship to work, I always say, and I truly believe this love is not enough. It is the most important thing. But to make a relationship work, there's a lot of other things that go into it. But we haven't even had that conversation because it's not like a. We're not going into each day like fearful of if this doesn't work out and what that would look like, you know.

[Co-host]

But I guess like you, I mean, have you always not cared about what the public has thought about you? I mean, obviously, like, you had your stint on the show, but like, did you keep up with any of that or were you always just like, I don't give a fuck, I'm doing my own thing anyways.

[Dale]

I mean, when you're going through like some smoke, like, obviously some stuff seeps in. But I've. I mean, I've been kind of under a microscope since I was a kid. Like, I was the only, you know, black kid in my community till roughly sophomore year in high school. I didn't know a lot of my mom's side of the family because of, you know, biracial marriage and some disagreements there. I was the top athlete since I was a, you know, Gatorade player of the year in high school. We had no pro sports team, dual sports star in college. So like, I think, like, attention and awareness. I was always aware of my surroundings, but I never fed into it too much because I know how fast, like things can change and then fast forward just being in New York, I was around a lot of circles and stuff that, you know, I never really really share. It was just like, it is what it is now, I think. Fast forward to, like, after Claire and I split, obviously, we were in the pandemic. I think it was one of the most viewed shows in the history of the franchise. And some of those things, like, you know, were really, really tough, but you also move through those, and then you just put up barriers and boundaries. And at this stage, like, my life, the show is amazing experience. I'm so happy to be a part of Bachelor Nation, but I've got my business, I've got my venture. Like, I've got all my other things. So, like, at the end of the day, and that's sometimes, like, I don't try to hide from the show in any way, shape, or form. I just.

[Kat]

Your entire person.

[Dale]

Yeah. It's just not my. My entire thing.

[Host]

But going on the cruise.

[Dale]

I'm not doing the cruise.

[Host]

Sounds like a nightmare.

[Kat]

I would get cruising. I would get so sick. They knew not to ask me because I was really.

[Dale]

I went to Greece. I took my sister to Greece on a cruise, and it was okay.

[Kat]

Greece is probably different.

[Dale]

Yeah, that one would. Because you'd be on so much.

[Host]

Corinne Olympias famously told me once when I said, I hate cruises, she told me, I don't know how to cruise. Then there you go. Kat. I want to address, like, the elephant in the room when it comes to how the final episode ended. Alicia, she came in here hot.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Host]

And then we saw it in the finale.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Host]

And the finale kind of backed up what her opinion. At least not.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Host]

But obviously she came in here, suggested that you came into paradise with a boyfriend. There was the iPad or extra phone accusation and kind of that you were playing the game. Also that you and Sean were like, homies.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Host]

Best friends. Friends with each other's families, holidays together, holidays together, et cetera, et cetera. Sean said as much at the finale, and then obviously, you were activated from that accusation. I would love to, like, just hear your point of view, because it wasn't really addressed. Obviously, you seemed upset. Dale came to your defense, you know, wanting to be the honorable man that he is, but I'd just love for you to address it. Yeah.

[Kat]

I mean, it was. It's obviously was a lot in the moment, and then it became a lot in real time. A few weeks ago, when it comes to being in a relationship, I did not come in with a boyfriend. I definitely did leave with one. So that's point blank period there.

[Host]

What. What was it then?

[Kat]

What was that?

[Host]

Was it a completely fabricated story or Was it.

[Kat]

It was a story that I think I would have appreciated a little bit more, I guess, conversations with me before things were spoken on so factual and also publicly, because, you know, they. No one had a conversation with me prior. And I think when you're hearing. If you want to speak on something to that extent, it should be really like, okay, this is exactly how it is. And was I dating before Paradise? Of course I wasn't going to stop my life. I didn't even know if I wanted to do the show yet. And I was seeing my ex at the time a little bit, but also, like, I was just not stopping my life, you know, but that did not mean that I was coming in with this idea that I was gonna, you know, fake it and then leave. But I do wish that things were at least addressed with me personally, like one on one before things were expressed the way that they were.

[Host]

And was this a relationship that you needed to address with that person when you left?

[Kat]

I think that. No. I mean, no, it's. I came into paradise saying, like, this is going to help me figure out what it is that I need to do that relationship. I have no ill will towards him at all. But it wasn't the healthiest. I think he can agree with that. And, you know, everyone's kind, I think, can understand maybe what that feels like. And I really did want to use this experience to kind of help me see things more clear and kind of break away a little bit, which is exactly what it provided. So maybe, yes, there could have been, like, a conversation, but not like, I'm breaking up with you conversation, if that makes sense. Or like, hey, like, I have. You're not my boyfriend anymore. Like, no. I think he can also agree that that was the situation for what it was.

[Host]

But, yeah, you definitely had a conversation, though, after filming with his.

[Kat]

Well, I had to, because, you know, I. I wanted to clear up if there was also anything that was said to him that may have been misconstrued or misunderstood, because I'm not. I didn't know exactly what was expressed to him from Sean and Alicia. So I wanted to like.

[Dale]

Oh, they.

[Host]

They reached out to him?

[Kat]

Yeah, they called him.

[Host]

Oh, yeah. What were the receipts that they were referring to? Do you know?

[Kat]

So I. Based on what I've been told, there are no actual receipts. So I'm not sure. I have receipts from my therapist, though. She said she'd released my clinical notes to prove that I didn't have a boyfriend. I said, let me sign the pat.

[Host]

But I mean, I hear you, like, it's a tricky thing when it comes to Bachelor Nation. I like, not stopping your life. I don't think anyone, if they're really being honest, goes on this show anything other than open to the possibility of maybe meeting someone, knowing that, like, they probably won't. And I think everyone who goes on the show.

[Kat]

Well, I came in excited for the.

[Host]

Opportunities that come with it.

[Kat]

Right.

[Host]

Like, you're an idiot. If.

[Kat]

Yeah, you would say that.

[Host]

If you only show up for love, you're kind of great.

[Kat]

Well, I mean, that is what I did before, and that did not work out very well. So I was like, you know what? I came in all these other times, like, so focused on leaving in a relationship, and that's all I wanted. Right. And it. I had a failed engagement, and the experience was not the best, even during. So I wasn't coming in, like, super hopeful, but I was open to it. But I just didn't want to put that pressure on myself. And I feel like if I had stopped my life before completely. I mean, I. To be honest, I signed my contract at Stagecoach. Like, I literally decided, like, right before I left, like, I'm not kidding. I started wearing everybody's. Cause I was like, I didn't prepare for this, but that's where I was coming from. It wasn't like, I just wanted to be very, like, realistic with this situation and the experience. But the last thing I expected was to actually, like, meet an adult and, like, form a real relationship the way that we did. Which, honestly, I think is what makes it even better, because when you're not going in with that idea, things can really form.

[Co-host]

So did they make up you sneaking in an iPad, or did you have an iPad?

[Kat]

I did not have an iPad. I did not have an iPad during filming. I did not have a laptop. No. And, like, guys, like, they have not been shy about showing people on this season. I think if I had those devices or messages on my arms, other than my tattoos. Yes, the messages on the arms. The messages on the arms. Like, Jill said, I only have spray tan and. And tattoos on me, so. But I think that would have been shown. I think that would, like. I don't think they were afraid of that. Right. So, no, there was no communication to the outside world through any electronic device.

[Co-host]

Why do you feel like they made that up about you?

[Kat]

I'm not sure where they were coming from with that, which is kind of why I wish that that was, like, a con. That at least they dressed with me.

[Dale]

I mean, I. I also just. My sense Even. Cause you see things back and you see some of the itms and the conversations and stuff. And like, obviously there was some, you know, some. Some frustration and some hurt there.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Dale]

And I don't know, some people move past it pretty quickly. Others take it to another level.

[Host]

How did you deal with it? Because obviously, like, you guys barely knew each other in paradise. You're getting to know each other. You don't really know who each other is until you get outside of the show. So when you are hearing these accusations in real time, certainly, like, you came to Cat's offense, you wanted to protect her, but, like, it was clear that, like, you know, it's. How do you know what to believe? So. Yeah. How did you work through that knowing that it was like, it would. You would be crazy to just dismiss the accusation without at least following up and just wondering what is true, what's not true? Because again, like, these are very weird, weird elements. It's a weird environment. So how did you work through it to, like, not have this ruin whatever trust you guys built leading up to that moment?

[Dale]

Yeah, I think, like, in that. In that moment, like, I heard what was said, what was, you know, shared, but ultimately, it's like, whatever is going to happen moving forward, we're going to figure it out after the fact. So in that moment, you know, I saw a cat being attacked. I didn't take anything too deep and too personally. I was just concerned about her wellbeing, making sure that she was, you know, felt safe. And obviously she had to take a moment to kind of, kind of do her thing. And my focus also was like, look, whatever it is, like, I'm 36 years old, like, there's real shit that goes on in life. Like, if this is something, if there's any truth to this, if this is what we have to, like, go through, like, this is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Also, it's a conversation after the fact because the reality was we could be going home and those things we could figure out. But I wasn't going to pin anything against anybody as truth without having any context or anything. And if there was any conversation, I was going to go directly to Kat. We were going to have a conversation when emotions weren't high and just speak openly and truthfully. So I think that's also too. We came off and that's what June was for.

[Host]

Right.

[Dale]

If there was anything lingering or any other questions or this or that. Also, you know, if there's any other carryover from that, any relationship goes through. Right. Things that spring up that might have been a trigger or something in the past. So. But it didn't affect me. Like I wasn't thinking about anything that happened before paradise because all I was focused on was. Was in the moments while we were there, you know. And I also understood where we finished.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Dale]

And whatever there was before is something that could be worked through because it didn't really matter, you know, at least not in that moment.

[Co-host]

This is like such a breath of fresh air, dude.

[Kat]

I know, girl. I was so scared. I was like. I mean that's I think is a testimony to his like securement with himself. Because I definitely have been with a decent amount of men that. That would hear that in their ego and their things and they would immediately like not want anything to do with it. But it is true. Like we are adults. We've been through life. We are living our own normal life daily.

[Host]

You're just like, I'm better than this guy anyway.

[Dale]

So I just like, like I will say outside of the deaded moment when I. It was a trigger and I had a little bit too much Ros.

[Kat]

I literally do love your rose.

[Host]

Someone from my team. My man manager or something. And I don't know. I don't. I don't know what the we were talking about. And I was like, can we just debt?

[Kat]

I was like, no, I'm using an incentive.

[Dale]

No. But that's sitting there like he's speaking in code. It's. I should like dead.

[Kat]

I know, I get it. I get it now. I actually use it. I use it very often.

[Dale]

Yeah. But that things. It takes a lot to get a rise out of me. Like you know, in that moment that was just a trigger of something that you know, happened. One of those things that you don't. You don't expect. But it's also like a moment you look back that like people go through stuff. Right. We've all had. Had our moments and we want to prove a point. The logic versus the emotional, the timing versus like. But yeah, there wasn't. I didn't have any anger towards really anybody on the show. Like it takes a lot to get me heated. But also it's like what's the point? Like, you know, why give someone fuel to the fire in those moments? And ultimately like I didn't want to do. I wasn't thinking about anybody else in that capacity or that deeply to. To where it could affect me and really like break and tear me down. The only person who could affect me on the show cat like that. So that's kind of it was the approach.

[Host]

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[Co-host]

L L. And Cat, your friendship with Sean.

[Kat]

Yeah. So let's talk about the friends. Let's talk about the friendship. I don't want it to be two very different versions. Yeah. And like that's perception. Right. And I think I just don't want this to ever be a he said, she said thing. But I'll just speak on my. Give us the she said. Okay. As long as I'm the she. Sean and I were friends, like first paradise. We are from the same hometown. We have mutual friends. And then we kind of were like friends after a few paradise, which was two years ago. Right. We talked about like boy and girl, like dating stuff. Right. He was someone that I talked to you about, like with John Henry and everything. But once I moved to San Diego, we didn't really like. It's not like we like talked every day or like monthly or anything. And so he met my ex twice. Okay. So best friends. I don't, I don't know if that's how he wants to call it. But he only met him because my ex and I are from the same hometown. I was home and then I was like, hey, you should like, let's meet up like at a bar or whatever and say hi and get like, you know, catch up. And then that's when he met my ex. So that was the extent. And then as far as holidays, same thing. I. We did not spend the holidays together. We were at the same local bar in the same hometown during holiday time because I was home. I don't know if you would consider that holidays together. But for me that was kind of like where it went.

[Host]

And then you just ran into each other at a bar.

[Kat]

Yeah. Literally. I didn't even know who's going to be at that bar actually.

[Host]

That's definitely not spending.

[Kat]

Yeah, I'll tell you the exact part too. It's my first time being there is in Tampa. And I was like, oh my God, classic. Everybody in Tampa, like, everyone is like around the same. Goes to the same places. So it was that was. He met my sister there because I was with my little sister. It's not like he's like friends, like hung out. I think someone said they hung out My sister, Like, no, she was just with me. And I don't know what the comment was about with my mom. Like, I think my mom maybe, like, DM'd him. Maybe at one point, like, seeing, like, thank you for being like, a good friend to Kat back in the day. And then. But when I was going on Paradise, I was like, hey, are you. Did you get a call? They just called me. And that's when we started, like, talking again. But still, like, I mean, I have received. That can show you we aren't like BFFs. I do think he felt connected to me because we did have that common ground. So I feel like that's maybe where he was coming from and felt hurt, like, as if he was betrayed. But we were like, we were friends, but I wasn't considering us a close friend. So I guess I can give context to. I think how this was misconstrued was when it was right before we started line, like, roasted. It was like cocktail party. And Alicia was. Went to approach Sean and he was talking strategy again. And I watched her, like, walk away and get emotional. So I went to go check on her, like, are you okay? Like, everything okay? Because I hadn't seen her all day, and I didn't know if she knew what Sean was doing, so I wanted to make sure she was okay. And that's when her and Prisa were staying there. She's like, he's just talking strategy again. Whatever. She's like, well, isn't he, like, one of your good friends? Like, what is this? Blah, blah. And I was like, well, I wouldn't say like, good friend. So that's how I remember it. And the last thing I thought was that that was going to be, like, taken to the extent that it was, but that's how I remember the situation. I mean, I'm sure she might remember it a different way or similarly, but that's where I was.

[Dale]

It's also just, you know, you're in of. It's. It's heightened situations. Rose ceremony night. Some things can get taken out of context.

[Host]

I mean, being familiar with this world. Yeah, your. Your story does sound very believable.

[Kat]

Okay. I don't want it to come off like, it's like. Because her experience is that too, you know?

[Host]

Well, I mean, I. I just. The word friend or best friend or boyfriend or girlfriend in bachelor world is often thrown around fairly freely.

[Kat]

And.

[Host]

And a lot of people in this world want to feel connected to this experience. There is definitely. I've always said this world is very high School. There's definitely, like, a hierarchy.

[Kat]

Clicky. And. Yeah.

[Host]

Whether. Whether that hierarchy is just internalized by each individual of their perception of who's a villain or who is popular and they, you know, I don't know what Sean thought of you, good or bad, but. But I have. I, I'm aware that people will oversell relationships.

[Kat]

Right. And we had that competition factor too.

[Host]

I don't know if that's what was going on, but you're. You're, you know, assuming you're telling the truth, and I'm not. You are. But, like, spending meeting up at a bar in the same town and having one person say, we spent the holidays together or saying we're best friends, because I've had moms reach out to me and thanks for their support. And I was like, I met them once. I. You know, my mom loves to do that too. I get what you're saying.

[Kat]

But I think also, like, I am never, like, afraid to be my full self, and I'll always own anything, like, whatever that may be. I also am very aware that I can sometimes be in my own world. So, like, if there's something about me, like, I, I stand on everything I say and do, I'm very, like, try to be as authentic as possible. I kind of should probably learn how to not be a little bit. Sad times. But in that moment, even with Sean, I, I, I. I didn't agree with his actions. I thought that he was moving very, like, uncomfortably, and that was like, our moment to talk about it, which is kind of like what I thought that conversation was gonna be, and it turned into something a little bit more intense.

[Host]

Do you think their accusations at the time in which it came sabotaged you guys, or do you think you guys probably would have been the ones to leave regardless?

[Kat]

I think they. That was their goal. Out.

[Host]

You think you're out?

[Dale]

Regardless. We were out. Regardless. Once we didn't win that challenge, I didn't think on it. Like, yeah.

[Host]

I honestly was kind of confused, honestly, with, like, how people got by in the next round or not. But, yeah.

[Dale]

Yeah. It wasn't. It wasn't the fact. It wasn't the fact that we, you know, when we didn't win the physical. Yeah, the physical challenge.

[Host]

When you lost it for the team. Yeah.

[Kat]

Oh, he was. Oh, poor. I was literally going up to Andrew being like, how do you handle, like, a guy that's, like, been an athlete and, like, lost? Because he's really upset, and I don't know what to do. Like, do I just let him Talk, like, do I try to support him? Like, I don't know what to do.

[Dale]

It wasn't about the L. It was going into it, I felt vulnerable for the first time in my life. Physically, probably.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Dale]

And it was. I was. But whatever. Yeah.

[Co-host]

How did it make you feel to hear Sean say that, like, all of the women were going to be. What do you say? Voting against you or they. They didn't like you or something? He made some comment to you sitting by the.

[Dale]

Oh, earlier.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dale]

It didn't even make sense.

[Host]

I don't remember that comment because.

[Dale]

Did they even air it when it's.

[Host]

Like, so no one. No one likes you?

[Dale]

I think Alicia is on the chopping block, not Cat.

[Kat]

Yeah, I. Well, I just didn't. It was really confusing. So my first concern was, like, let me go talk to the girls. And, like, where is this coming from? And then that's when I spoke to them, and they were like.

[Dale]

Like.

[Kat]

Because I wasn't around when he was having conversations with people earlier in the day, and they're like, no, this is kind of how Sean's been all day. Like, that's not how we feel. We were worried that, like, you were, like, kind of, like, separating from us. Looking back, I've learned that people had, like, very different opinions than I thought they did about me. Watching it back has been very interesting from that place, but I don't know, I was just confused by the timing. Like, I'm like, this maybe would have fed a better conversation tomorrow because, like, it's worth ceremony.

[Host]

I want to read you a dm. I. I got one of your peers.

[Kat]

I'm so scared.

[Host]

Well, it's. It's harsh. I'm gonna give you a heads up, but I want to give you a heads up because I.

[Kat]

Is it gonna hurt my feelings?

[Co-host]

Probably, but I did not know who's doing that.

[Host]

But in fairness to you, I just want. It's gonna be a heads up because aren't you guys going to be recording with these people later?

[Kat]

I just don't. I'm so sick of my feelings being hurt.

[Host]

It'll be fine. But I want to give you an opportunity to defend yourself, because Parisa.

[Kat]

See, that's what I'm saying, man. I live this. I live in my.

[Host]

But she's gonna come. She's gonna come for you, so I'm just gonna give you.

[Kat]

Oh, she is.

[Host]

I'm. I'm assuming, based on what she wrote me.

[Dale]

Really?

[Kat]

Really? See, that's what I'm saying. Like, I literally.

[Dale]

Is she gonna go For Brian.

[Kat]

I thought she was going for bride.

[Host]

I'm just gonna read you. I just want you to have a chance.

[Kat]

When was this set?

[Host]

Like, two weeks ago. A week ago. She. She's like, hi. Cat was a bully the entire time in Paradise. Everyone was scared of her.

[Kat]

Her.

[Host]

So nobody ever said anything or stood up to her. We did run into Zoe in New York who kind of said the same thing.

[Kat]

Wait, finish.

[Co-host]

It was basically just like, I love.

[Host]

Then she wanted. Then she wanted to also stand. She. I also want to speak up about Brian because there are so many things that weren't shown. But that. Yeah, she just called you a bully.

[Dale]

It's not that.

[Kat]

Do you think I'm a bully?

[Dale]

It's. No, I don't think you're a bully. But it's not that deep. Like, that's what I.

[Kat]

Like, I think maybe what. So.

[Dale]

But if people are gonna have opinions.

[Host]

At the end of the day, people.

[Dale]

Are gonna have a pain.

[Co-host]

Was Parisa one of, like, your girls? Like, do you feel shocked by that, or are you.

[Kat]

Yeah, she was coming to me about Brian. Like, I'm not gonna cry right now. Hold on.

[Host]

I don't want you.

[Kat]

It's hard. This is hard watching people, like, I don't really care. Be very, like.

[Co-host]

It's like, but this is what. But this, unfortunately, is what this world. Everyone wants to.

[Dale]

Like, everyone wants to get a word in. Everyone wants to get the last word confused. Because, like, the thing is, if. Yeah, you want. If you want to, like, try to understand everyone's reasoning, you're going to drive yourself crazy because you're not going to find it.

[Kat]

I just don't know what's real or not, you know, like.

[Dale]

But it's opinions.

[Kat]

Yeah. But it's like. So in these moments, like, yeah, we were. She was coming to me for advice about Brian, like, because I saw a lot of myself in her, and I think she had a little bit of, like, anxious, like. And I could understand maybe where he was coming from. So, like, we would get ready for, like, rose ceremony and stuff, too. And, like, we were in the room even with, like, Alicia, like, that's. And, like, Zoe was my roommate. And, like, me and Zoe connected about our childhood. Like, I was standing up for her against Brian.

[Host]

Zoe didn't like Parisa either. So she didn't like anyone.

[Kat]

So hearing the things that people have just been saying.

[Host]

So she wasn't taking sides.

[Kat]

Yeah, I just. It's confusing because it's like, what's real or not, you know, with friends.

[Co-host]

Is Parisia and Alicia, really close.

[Kat]

They were roommates. Okay. I don't know. I don't know where they stand today. But like being called a bully is like, I. I don't. My intentions are always like, to help people. Right. Like, or like if they're gonna come to me for things. I am a passionate human being. I am Italian. I speak very intensely and I care very deeply. And maybe that can understand. I've. I've watched stuff back. I've learned that about myself. Like, that it can be perceived a certain way. But I think I've. The amount of time that we spend with people.

[Host]

What do you think she's going to.

[Kat]

I don't know because people are so. I had no idea. She didn't even like me. Like, like we were friends. Like, I was comforting her the night of the rose ceremony. Like, I've been there for present throughout the.

[Dale]

Brian, you can do everything right and people are still going to have opinions. And I think that's one of the things that like, I will say, like.

[Host]

In this world, you know, whether some people agree with me or not.

[Kat]

Not.

[Host]

If there are some people who feel shortchanged about their time and convince themselves that they're the victims of something. Do you feel like it's just Parisa not getting whatever airtime or attention? Or do you think there's a specific example that she's going to bring up where you maybe just didn't remember that?

[Dale]

I don't. I don't think. I mean, you can speak to this, but you. That's not a. That's not an answer that you can come up with. You know, I have no idea if your entire answer can answer that.

[Co-host]

Yeah. Of like, your only Parisa is good and positive and like, she loved Parisa.

[Dale]

She stuck up for. She's like, I can see where she's coming from her. You know, some of the anxiousness here. Like, I've been in her position. I feel for her so much and so deeply. So Kat was a fan of Parisa. I don't know what your guys conversations were like one on one, but I'm just saying based on the things that you have told me and even, you know, before this stuff with Alicia and Sean, you never said anything bad about Alicia to me. There was never any conversation. And maybe that's because we were so focused about our own stuff. It's not that what everyone else was doing or saying didn't matter. It's just like we were focused on our world, you know, like that makes sense.

[Host]

So maybe they felt like, they were entitled to your attention more than.

[Kat]

No, I don't.

[Dale]

I don't think that.

[Kat]

I think based on how they are.

[Dale]

If you have opinions, sometimes people are gonna, like, perceive and take them the wrong way.

[Co-host]

But I mean, I think this also, like, obviously, that was tough to hear. I think this, like, gives you something to go into this and, like, Like, I thought we had this friendship, but, like, clearly you don't feel the same way. Like, you're going.

[Kat]

I just would have conversations.

[Co-host]

You're, like, pitching yourself to go on shows by, like, nobody reach out.

[Kat]

Nobody wants. Nobody tells me how they're feeling. Like, if I'm making you feel that way, like, I would love for you to say, hey, you made me feel this way. Like, let's talk about it before just putting a characteristic to me, like, saying things with so much, like, intensity so.

[Dale]

Publicly, but then it doesn't give them the, The. The attention.

[Kat]

Yeah, I. So, yeah, I don't know what their goals are, but nobody that has said any of the things, any of the accusations are spoken on my character, like, has had a conversation with me or gotten to know me to that extent or at least expressed their concerns with me. So we can work through it. Because for me, we're friends.

[Host]

Like, in your defense, I was. I read that and was like, why don't they show it?

[Kat]

What.

[Dale]

Why wasn't it on the entire season.

[Co-host]

If you were a bully to girls or if you were.

[Host]

I've seen. I've seen people made to be villains over nothing. Over real, you know.

[Kat]

Yeah.

[Host]

So if you were, in fact, a bully.

[Kat]

But if I made her feel not.

[Host]

To have seen that.

[Kat]

But if that is how I made her feel in any way, I was not aware of that based on how our interaction, and I would have loved to have, because I understand that, like, sometimes I don't see, like, how I make people feel like anybody can. And I appreciate when someone can just be, like, honest. Like, I don't like, when moving to California, I learned, like, people can be a little bit, like, nice to your face but feel a certain way. And I grew up. You be as real as possible. And sometimes that could be taken as, like, being a.

[Dale]

Or just if you're direct.

[Kat]

I'm very direct.

[Dale]

Some people can't handle that.

[Kat]

But, yeah, yeah. And that's. But if I make you feel that way, I would love to have a conversation about it, you know, Like, I never want to make anybody feel like I that, like, bullied so that I, I, I'm sorry.

[Host]

I didn't Mean to hurt your.

[Kat]

I know, I know it's not you, it's everything. Cuz it's been a few things now where I'm just like man, I don't want to like go through life like not trusting people and girls. For me, like I, I stand with women almost too blindly. Like it's not even in my bloodstream to stand with a man so like hearing like girls like be so like, like so much like unkindness towards another woman. In a world where, where we are already facing enough adversity, we should be supporting each other and uplifting each other and wanting people to see our hearts. And there's just been a lot of, of not that. And it, it's hurtful.

[Co-host]

Do you feel like Zoe, Alicia and Parisa are two faced?

[Kat]

I don't know what their experience is because they haven't expressed it to me. Right.

[Co-host]

But that's what I'm saying. Like if they've been very nice and kind and liking your Instagram pictures or responding to your stories or like, like, I don't know, has, has never brought up some sort of issue but then is going back and like DMing someone to like get on the show to bash you. It's like that's too faced to me. In my experience.

[Kat]

I just, it's just confusing. Like again, Zoe and I were roommates. I didn't even know she had a feel for Dale. Like that's how little I knew about people. Like what I learned that watching it back. So I don't know what their intentions are. Maybe things settled and like they feel that type of way. But I think you should always have a conversation with that person. If you, if someone makes you feel that way, talk about it. Maybe they didn't feel comfortable and they felt more comfortable sending a DM to someone else or you know, like speaking on things on a podcast.

[Host]

I don't, maybe you get a chance to ask her.

[Kat]

The thing is, my therapist told me is that to not try to figure out the whys of, of people's behaviors because that's going to drive you crazy. Yeah, because I, I always want to try to understand and maybe it's because I try to like, it's a control thing. If I can understand that, I can brace myself. But I've learned to like just accept and. Because I, it's just gonna, yeah, it's gonna drive me crazy because I can never really understand where someone's coming from. But yeah, that's a lot. But no, I, I, yeah, I feel.

[Host]

I think you answered It.

[Dale]

Yeah. I think you're good. Good work.

[Kat]

That's just crazy, man. This, like, watching this has been very different than previously.

[Host]

Listen, your. Your best. Your best defense is the fact that it is surprising they didn't. I didn't say anything to you. And this is information that's catching you off guard. And also, we didn't get to see it on the show.

[Dale]

I was so surprised it didn't air.

[Kat]

Yeah. So surprised they didn't show me writing messages from my.

[Host]

I was a little annoyed at the editors and that when I heard that, I was just like, well, I could have used that in episode five. Obviously, it's a little boring.

[Kat]

I know, right? There's too much. Where's the iPad footage? I would love to see that yelling. That's what I'm like. There was iPad versus laptop. Like, it's like, let's. Let's just, like, have. If you're going to say things about people and the way they moved, I think let's make sure we have everything aligned.

[Host]

Well, thank you guys for coming. Wishing you guys the best of luck.

[Kat]

Thank you for having us. I appreciate it.

[Host]

I hope that. Yeah, well, we'll see what happens. We're wishing you guys.

[Kat]

We're very excited to finally start posting all the pics and, like, being a real couple. No more hiding.

[Host]

How would you like to be proposed to?

[Kat]

I don't think about that anymore, Nick. Okay.

[Dale]

I couldn't even tell you how I would because I.

[Host]

It's.

[Co-host]

Listen, I don't even know. I think you lay flat on the ground. I don't know how you do it.

[Kat]

He knows I wear gold jewelry. Okay. I only wear gold lever.

[Host]

And. And like, a man is only successful as his woman sets him up for success.

[Kat]

When we get there, he will know everything.

[Co-host]

Right now, they're just enjoying learning about each other.

[Host]

Regardless of this relationship, you must listen.

[Co-host]

All have what we want in our head.

[Host]

Yeah, that's what. I just has nothing to do with Dale. I just want to know how I.

[Kat]

Want to be proposed to. How you want to be not on television. We'll start there.

[Host]

Okay.

[Kat]

With a gold ring, number two.

[Host]

Do you want it documented? Do you want to have a party with friends afterwards?

[Kat]

I do. I think an engagement party the day of is the best thing because then, like, everyone's excited. Like, that would be really fun. Honestly, your guys's proposal was like goals.

[Co-host]

It was.

[Kat]

It was so perfectly executed.

[Co-host]

I told him, I said, I want it.

[Host]

She was like, I want it documented. I want to party with friends out.

[Kat]

Oh, he'll have an xl. Like, I will have the checkout. Yeah. When we get there, he will know everything. He'll have a checklist. But I also trust that he's.

[Host]

Natalie has a wish list, an ongoing.

[Co-host]

Wish list that's, like, for any. For Valentine's Day, for Mother's Day, for birthday, for Christmas. It's a link. It's the color that I want. It's the size that I want. There's a picture of what I want and a link. I'm like, you can't. You can't go wrong.

[Kat]

Like, you literally cannot mess it up.

[Dale]

Courthouse signature, and let's just throw a party and do a destination.

[Kat]

Great. Yeah.

[Dale]

I can plan a wedding in three days.

[Kat]

He threw an event.

[Dale]

Okay. No, seven.

[Kat]

He's like, a good event plan. Like, I have no. I feel like I just have so much trust with his, like, judgment of things. Like, this is the first time in a relationship where I can be like, okay, I. I trust you. Like, I. I can relax a little bit.

[Co-host]

I have to say, it's very heartwarming to see you in this relationship.

[Kat]

Thank you.

[Co-host]

I have always loved how authentic you are. Even on a couple of seasons ago.

[Kat]

Whenever, like, you are great tv.

[Co-host]

You're very authentically yourself.

[Kat]

Almost your default.

[Co-host]

And this is a really beautiful thing to see. You look very happy, so I get very happy.

[Kat]

I am very happy. It's been very fun. It's been a much better experience, I'd say. We love despite even the challenge.

[Dale]

Paradise is one of the best experiences of my life. I probably had too much fun. A little too much.

[Co-host]

Who did you leave with? Your closest friends?

[Dale]

I mean, I'm tight with. I don't have bad blood with anybody. Jeremy was my roommate, so I still communicate with Jeremy, obviously. Brian Spencer all the time. I'm close with Andrew. We don't talk as much. Like, following the show, I haven't communicated with Sean. But regardless of what's gone down, like, Sean and I got along on the show, there were now the moments I didn't agree with, obviously. I don't know. Like, I was just cool with everybody, and I was just having. Having fun. I was like, vacation.

[Kat]

I think we learned about people afterwards a little bit.

[Host]

You don't have to answer this question, but I'm gonna ask it anyways. How quickly in your last experience on this show did you know deep down it wasn't gonna work?

[Kat]

Like, after filming?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Dale]

Whether it was alignment or just even, you know, some things with, like, family and lifestyles that were not wrong. They were just. Were so different with. We just had different perspectives, and it just became very clear. And I think the moment things start seeping into your family, your work, and, like, all these other areas of life, I think that's like a pretty telltale sign. And you ride through it for a while, but it started affecting the people around me very negatively and not even to, like, the partner's detriment. I think it was just like, sometimes you try to figure out the code and you can't find the code, and it drives you nuts. And you're like, why is. Why can't I figure out this code? And I think it's just ultimately when it started affecting the people around me. And I think that's kind of a telltale thing for any relationship. Right?

[Kat]

Help me learn how to, like, not be so delulu.

[Dale]

Yeah. I mean, you give yourself.

[Kat]

I didn't learn.

[Dale]

You do the best you can and like it. Relationships aren't easy.

[Host]

Anyways, thanks for coming, guys. We appreciate it. We wish you nothing but the best. Thank you guys for listening. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Subscribe. Tell your friends all that fun stuff. We'll see you tomorrow. We got Katie from Real Housewives of Orange county to address all the drama that's going on in her world. Also, we have Cecilia Celia. You know her from Tinder, Swindler. She's now hosting a new show on Netflix all about relationship scams. And she is with us to talk about all the dirty johns that she has been finding out there. It's a fascinating world. That's all. Tomorrow. We'll see you then.

[Kat]

Bye.

[Host]

Bye.