Taylor (3:15)

You're crazy.

Nick (3:27)

How's it going?

Taylor (3:28)

Good. How are you?

Nick (3:29)

Good. What's your name?

Taylor (3:30)

I am Taylor and I am 36 years old.

Nick (3:32)

How can I help, Taylor?

Taylor (3:33)

I am wondering if I need to leave the country to find a boyfriend.

Nick (3:37)

Did you commit a crime? Are you running from the law?

Taylor (3:40)

Not yet.

Nick (3:41)

Okay. Why do you feel like you might need to leave the country to find a boyfriend?

Taylor (3:46)

I've had the same dating stories that a lot of your callers have. Just trouble finding good guys who I think offer some of the qualities I'm looking for. And I was recently in Europe and the men were just different, I think. I don't know if dating culture is there, if they're just more forward, if they're more willing to approach you or if I just had rose colored glasses on. But I think my experience there just made me question whether my man might live somewhere in Europe.

Nick (4:13)

Okay. Yeah. Well, it's probably a little bit of everything. I'm curious, like, let's break down. What are you experiencing here stateside and what were some of the. That you alluded. You alluded to them a little bit. But what were some of the things that really made you ask this question about, you know, men abroad?

Taylor (4:30)

Yeah, I mean, I live in a relatively large city and before that I lived in la. So I have been in large cities. And I just find that men either don't approach you or if they do, they don't really take initiative. And I think even if you go out sometimes I just don't even see men that I'm all that attracted to or, you know, have kind of the complete package and are what I'm looking for. And so when I was in Europe, like, we would be out to dinner and the men at the next table would say, like, when you're done, come over and join us, have some wine with us. Or they would just be much more open to having a conversation. And it was never creepy or awkward. Which I think sometimes in the us, if someone is going to come up to you, maybe they're too aggressive or they're too forward. It just seemed like culturally they were just more interested in. In talking to you, getting to know you. And it just made things a little bit more fun and exciting.

Nick (5:25)

And so, like, stateside, is it really just more like just dating culture in terms of the initial stages of dating, where it's not necessarily about the men you're dating, but, like, just, it's. You're not even getting that far. It's the men you're not meeting.

Taylor (5:38)

I mean, I would say there hasn't been a guy who I've been like, really interested probably in three years. And I moved to my current city a year and a half ago and just haven't had the best luck here either. You hate to be the woman who says, like, dating is hard. Where are the good men? But I have so many single girlfriends who have, like, awesome qualities and their experience is the same.

Nick (6:02)

So what are the men that you're going for here?

Taylor (6:06)

I mean, I will take blame. I probably am interested in the wrong types of guys sometimes, I think. And I'm definitely a fixer and a bit of a people pleaser. So you get down the road with someone and then once you're a bit invested in them, it's easy to say, like, I can change them when they're clearly not ready for a relationship or are not looking for the same things you are, or not ready to Settle down. But, you know, there just aren't even that many options. I wouldn't say, like, I've even had a crush on someone in a. In a while.

Nick (6:36)

And so are you, like, not even getting into the second or third date?

Taylor (6:39)

I mean, the last date I went on the guy I showed up at the coffee place, which was his idea. He was sitting down, he already had his coffee. And I walked in, said hi, and he's like, okay, you can go get yours. So I went in line, stood by myself for 10 minutes.

Nick (6:54)

So immediately like, ick.

Taylor (6:57)

And then I told him that I had to go pick up my dog from the groomer after about 15 minutes, which was not true, but I just needed to get out up there.

Nick (7:04)

What was his energy like in those 15 minutes?

Taylor (7:08)

Just lazy. Just like lazy energy. Didn't feel like he needed to. I don't need someone to like, sweep me off my feet, but like, act like, excited to be there, excited to have a conversation, act interested.

Nick (7:20)

I think I'm curious because I'm fascinated by this call. Because, you know, obviously, like the way you presented it obviously sounds a little silly, but maybe there is truth and just like how men in different cultures or parts of the world are, are acting differently. You said you're 36. Yeah. So obviously still very young, but you are old enough. You were dating 15, 16 years ago. Right. And I'm curious from your perspective, have things gotten worse? You know, how have things changed? Is this something you're noticing recently? Has it always been like this from your perspective?

Taylor (7:59)

Yeah, I mean, I think the pool feels like it's a lot smaller. Like when I was a little bit younger, there were at least guys who were like, oh, that guy's hot. Or that guy has, you know, a great career, a great family, is kind, is funny, all the things. So there was at least a pool of people. And then granted, you know, there's a lot of bad behavior and people do bad things or it's not a good fit. But now it just feels like they're just. There's not even a pool of great guys to choose from and. And it's like you don't know where to look. And like I said, you don't want to be the girl who's saying like, they don't exist. Because I know there's lots of great men out there, guys I know who are my friends, but it's hard to find them. And part of Europe could be that, like you have rose colored glasses on and you're on vacation and it's like a sexier vibe, and it's fun and you're more open to it. But I think just anecdotally, a lot of my friends have the same experience here.

Nick (8:55)

Yeah. I mean, you're probably right, with the rose color glasses, and you come in. You're coming in vacation mode with a different energy. But the picture you painted. Yeah. That doesn't sound like your typical, like, group of American men to have that kind of bravado to invite a group of women over to their table for. For some wine.

Taylor (9:12)

Yeah. We were, like, getting up, about to leave, and they were behind us, and they're like, hey, like, why don't you come over and have some. Have a drink with us, hang out? And we just ended up chatting with them. We stayed out for a little while.

Nick (9:23)

Did you find them attractive?

Taylor (9:24)

Yeah, I love an accent.

Nick (9:26)

What about their face or their heart or one?

Taylor (9:29)

Yes. To know.

Nick (9:31)

Okay. Did anyone hook up with anyone?

Taylor (9:33)

I did.

Nick (9:34)

Okay.

Taylor (9:34)

The next night with a different person that I met.

Nick (9:38)

Okay. All right. So you were really on fire. You were feeling. You were like. You were, like, thinking, I'm, like, I'm. I'm out of here.

Taylor (9:43)

You know, I'm the queen of Europe.

Nick (9:45)

Like, Taylor's back. Yeah. Listen, I. I don't.

Taylor (9:51)

I don't know if you have this experience, because I know you, like, obviously talk to a lot of. And probably have female friends, but, like, if they're asking, do you know, like, more women who are a catch, I will say, than your pool of male friends, objectively.

Nick (10:07)

No, I don't think that's the case. I'm saying that objectively.

Taylor (10:11)

Yeah.

Nick (10:11)

Obviously, the girlies are always going to prop each other up and things like that. I think all people have their flaws and have their toxicity. This idea that women have remained as eligible and as. As. As wonderful as they have ever been, while men societally, over time in America have just gotten worse and worse and worse. I don't think that's the case. I think, you know, I think there's a lot of reasons why our dating culture has. Has nosedived to what it is today. I think it's affecting both of the genders. You talked about how men in, like, Europe approach. Right. I mean, this has been talked about. I think we've referenced it on this show a few times before. But, like, there is. There's a lot of women online telling men and young men, do not approach me. Do not talk to me. I don't, you know, do not come up to me in a parking lot. There Are there? I saw this one video online. There is this like very attractive young blonde woman who was like coaching other women online of a man approaches in your parking lot, you scream at him and say, do not approach me as if he's like a psycho, you know, and it's like if you're a guy, you see that you're like, okay, no, I don't fuck. And I'm sure this woman was well intentioned. And listen, like, we know, you know, I don't. You know me, explain it to me. But like, there's enough of bad actors of men out there who have done some terrible things, horrendous things, that sadly all women have a story about fucking a creepy guy. And creepy men are more dangerous and more scary than creepy women. You know, and that's just a reality. Right. But yeah, and so, you know, I think there's just a lot of bad advice in general going on online and I think you're seeing the results of that a lot. That being said, like, what's the age range in which you're dating?

Taylor (11:51)

Ideally it would probably be like 32 to 45, but my preference would probably be somewhere closer to my age. 36.

Nick (12:01)

Okay. Why?

Taylor (12:03)

It's a great question. I mean, older, maybe a little bit better. I want kids. I want someone who wants kids. I don't mind if they already have their own. I think I just want someone with a young energy, regardless of what their actual age is.

Nick (12:17)

Well, I would, I would argue there's a handful of men who might be older than you even say they're mid to mid-40s who live younger than their age suggests and yada, yada, yada. I just, you know, you might have to age up a little bit. Listen, be open to anything but like, because men are developing slower and are even more immature than they were in years, like, the chances you're gonna find a 32 year old that you want more than just a good time with is probably unlikely. But yeah, you know, 45, 50 is a little. But that five number getting closer than I want anyway.

Taylor (12:53)

It's just even like, where do you. I mean, yes, if I could.

Nick (12:56)

Are you on the apps? I'm assuming probably.

Taylor (12:59)

I'm on Raya, but I deleted Hinge because it was actively depressing me. And Raya's most is awful also.

Nick (13:07)

Yeah.

Taylor (13:07)

Why is like a good ego boost and fun to see? Like what, single guys in Copenhagen?

Nick (13:13)

Yeah. But I do think it's probably warping your perspective. There is a reality out there of how social media and Dating apps has affected, I honestly think, a lot of the perspectives of women. I mean, the, there's a lot of data out there. I don't think it's, it's real. And we all know you all love a tall guy, right? And the reality is, is like 2% of the men out there are over 6 foot, whatever. But it doesn't seem like that online. Right?

Taylor (13:39)

Right.

Nick (13:40)

And the algorithm knows what you all like. Right? So you guys are being like. So when you're on Raya, right? And for the people who don't know, Raya is like a celebrity app that only has hot people on it, it's just going to warp your perspective. You know, it's going to warp your perspective what a, what a, what an eligible bachelor might actually look like in your perspective. You're gonna, it's. How do you not compare the, the DJ in Copenhagen versus, you know, Chad down the street who's like, maybe a pretty solid guy, which to be fair.

Taylor (14:08)

I don't want the DJ in Copenhagen either. But.

Nick (14:11)

No, I know, but I think, I do think there is, I think there's this. Listen, I'm being real. I think there's a sentiment that a lot of the ladies have out there that they, that their non negotiables include a guy who's over 6 foot and makes a certain type of living. I think 85% of the women are going after 10% of the men out there. I think that's the reality. There's literally data out there that suggests that's what's going on certainly on the apps. Right. But I think that's also happening just in general, which isn't like, I don't know what you're supposed to do about that because I do think it's a deeper issue in general. I mean, as silly as it sounds, I mean, I'm not saying you should move, right. But like, I don't know, maybe there's something to be said about like our American culture over the past several years has almost become too sensitive and too self aware and too like everyone's online sharing their opinion about you should or shouldn't do. And as a result, you now have a bunch of men out there who don't even know how to talk to women, let alone like even think they're supposed to approach people in public, just lack the general confidence. There's a select group of men out there just with too many options and they're just leaning into the fact that like they're getting all the matches online and, and things like that. Bye. This sounds like I'm just painting an even worse picture for you. Yeah.

Taylor (15:29)

I am going back to Europe at the end of September into October, and I might just like, be more open to what that looks like. I mean, ideally, I would love to meet someone in person and not online and.

Nick (15:41)

Yeah. In this new, like, what do you. It's hard to have in. In your. In the us in the city that you live. What does your week look like between, like, work and your personal life? Where. Where are you spending your time?

Taylor (15:53)

Yeah, I mean, I spent a decent amount of time at work, but I work in an interesting interest industry, so I meet interesting people. I go to the gym. It's a small gym. I should probably go to a bigger gym. I try to go out with my girlfriends and friends. I don't know.

Nick (16:11)

And when the girlies are growing up.

Taylor (16:13)

Times a week, are you guys.

Nick (16:14)

It's just like, to the bars or restaurants and shit.

Taylor (16:16)

Yeah. And then even when you do go out, like, not getting approached much or I'm looking around and saying, like, have you ever.

Nick (16:23)

Do you ever approach?

Taylor (16:24)

Oh, yeah, totally.

Nick (16:25)

You do. Okay.

Taylor (16:26)

But I just don't see that many guys lately who I would want to approach. But I'm not shy about that. I wouldn't say.

Nick (16:33)

All right. I'm curious. All right, so when you. Were you looking at the guys at the table in Europe, did you even notice their existence?

Taylor (16:39)

No.

Nick (16:40)

Okay. That. That is a data point, so to speak, in the sense. Right. The fact that, like, here you are, you're like, you're. You're painting this picture of you in America. You're going out, you're not really noticing the men that you. You're not. You're just not even, like, I don't even notice guys. You didn't even notice these men. The difference between those men and these men is they approached you, they had the bravado, whatever. This is something they do. They. They made it safe, organic, and fun. I guess the big question is, would you women have said yes Stateside, where, like, in Europe, you're like, it, we're here, why not? We don't know where else to go. Like yolo, Would you. Would you have done that here? I don't know.

Taylor (17:15)

I think it depends on the vibes of the guys who were approaching. Yeah, but sure.

Nick (17:21)

Or when you go out to bars, what kind of bars are you going to?

Taylor (17:26)

Like, cocktail bars or, like, more not like crazy party scene sports bars?

Nick (17:35)

Sports bars.

Taylor (17:36)

I do like sports.

Nick (17:37)

A good sports bar is, you know, listen, you Might get hit on for all the wrong reasons, so to speak. Or it might be a bunch of obnoxious men. But it'd be interesting if the girls. Girls got together. NFL season's about to come up. A lot of Sunday Funday afternoons football games. Girlies get together, get a table at a place that, like, has the games on. I feel like y' all would get approached and have a good time.

Taylor (18:00)

Okay, we're gonna. We're gonna put it to the test.

Nick (18:03)

So, I mean, I guess, you know, here we are. I'm just. Literally just brainstorming off the top of my head. I'm like, what the can she do? I don't know. Like, I, you know, because I can't. The truth is, without knowing. And having been to Europe is like, yeah, there's a. Probably a little bit of truth. Right. I would be. It wouldn't be shocked to realize that, like, maybe men in Europe. Yeah. Are just like. I don't know. I think American men, for a lot of reasons, don't know what the fuck they're doing when it comes to dating anymore. Most of them. And again, the good ones are just being fuck boys because they have so many options. And when you're on the apps and 80% of the women on the apps are going after you and like 10% of the other men, you will never run out of options. I really think the greatest privilege in modern history is men who are over 6 foot. Because the way women treat them.

Taylor (different caller) (18:50)

Yeah.

Taylor (18:50)

If you're over 6 foot and you have hair, you are. You are killing life.

Nick (18:54)

You can honestly in some cases, could have murdered someone, and you'll still probably get a second chance. Literally. I mean, it's crazy. And then again, I think there's also an element of. Yeah, would you have said yes to these guys stateside? I. I do think, whether you. You all like it or not, culturally, the message to men overwhelmingly over the past few years has been, don't be a creep. We're tired of your shit. We're tired the way you've been treating us. And again, there's so much truth to that. Right. But when you blast out a message to everyone, when that message really should be directed to a smaller percentage of bad actors, and then you have those bad actors honestly not listening or giving a fucking. And meanwhile, this message is going out to all these people being like, just don't be a creep. That I think you're dealing with that situation. I do think in general, in the short term, I think women, whether they like it or not are gonna just have to get better at approaching men. I mean, really just.

Taylor (19:51)

I just gotta find the places where the good men are to approach.

Nick (19:55)

Yeah, I guess. I don't know. I mean, listen, I. I was always a generally confident guy and I always, you know, I'm six two, good looking enough, have the hair, so to speak. When I felt confident one on one, I had all the. I had more comp. You know, I think a lot of people would argue I have too much confidence for my own good, but I was never like that swaggy to walk up to some girl at a bar and throw a line. And I was, I was okay, but I wasn't great more often than not with chicken out. Right. Yeah. So I can't imagine for. And I'm a guy who generally had a lot of confidence. Right. So it's. It's never easy and I think it's even more impossible today. Honestly, it's. It's. I do think it's a bit of a crisis. I do think, like, not to sound kind of doomsday, but I think a challenge.

Taylor (20:36)

I don't know. Yeah, but it's. There's not an easy solution.

Nick (20:40)

I think culturally, like, not to like, go on a tangent, but like, my audience is mostly women. As a, As a male host, I'm proud of that fact that like, whatever, you know, I, whatever I'm doing right. Empathize with women and do it, you know, and I've learned a lot from y'. All. I wish I had a larger male audience because I think. I wish more men would be interested in this type of stuff. I think we need better role models and I don't know, like this. The discourse needs to change around men in general or men and women or whatever, but there needs to be kind of a dating revolution that's not in digital. I hope I'm lucky enough to have a son because I hope that I can at least with my kids, raise my son to be everything the modern man isn't today. You know, because it feels like we've talked a little bit about this with some of the recent shows we've covered like Perfect Match and Bachelor in paradise, where it's just like, I think young men have learned to be more sensitive, so to speak. They're like in touch with their feelings, but, like, not necessarily in a mature sort of way. They almost feel like, entitled. It's like now they know how to communicate their feelings, but now their feelings are more valid than anyone else's now.

Taylor (21:49)

Now they just be weaponized yeah.

Nick (21:50)

And it's just like, okay, that's not what I meant by being more vulnerable. But like, sure, they're more vulnerable but not empathetic. Well, because a lot of it is they just don't know how to be around women. They don't have experience. They haven't heard from women. All they hear from women is what they're hearing online and that is that they suck. And then so women become the enemy of the me. It's just, it's a mess, but whatever. That's neither here nor there. And that's, you know, things aren't going to get better anytime soon. So as someone who's your age at the time in life, let's not, let's not focus on what's wrong. Let's find. I. Yeah, I think you literally, like, you got to challenge yourself to mix it up. And honestly, with football season coming around sports bars during the day, it's more of a hang vibey thing. I think a group of young, attractive women at a table will stand out at a sports bar. You're going to get approached and you're listen, you're have to deal with the douchebags and you know, which I'm sure you used to. You know what it's like to deal with the riff raft in the pursuit of something nice. I think the big takeaway is you all have to. You're gonna have to be willing. And that's something I think in general none of us are good at, is you're gonna have to be willing get to get to know men that your initial instincts wouldn't be to swipe right. So to speak.

Taylor (23:01)

Right.

Nick (23:02)

You're just gonna have to, you know, because I think feel lucky and surprised if you happen to run into the hot six two six one guy who's single and available out at the bars.

Taylor (23:13)

But in the mean doesn't know that he's hot. That's. That's what you need there.

Nick (23:17)

That doesn't exist. That doesn't exist anymore. I mean, I, I mean, if that is honestly part of your criteria, I think you do need to adjust your criteria if you're looking for the like, oh my God, he doesn't even know how hot he is. Come on. He knows. I think social media has warped the perspective of women more than it's warped the perspective of men.

Taylor (23:36)

Well, I think, yeah, because it's so easy to compare yourselves. And then you think, look at all these. I think it skews your view of like the women that exist in the world. And it Skews your view of the men that exist in the world.

Nick (23:46)

Yeah, because like you said, you. You didn't even notice these guys in Europe. The difference is they approached you, and because you were on vacation, you were just like it. Where if that happened here, you've been like, I don't know, it's getting late. I have to work tomorrow. My dog's waiting for me. I'm just gonna go home. I don't know, whatever. And I. I don't even. There's only one. There's three of us, and there's only one hot guy. And whatever. They don't have accents. And I think you have to, like. Yeah. Be surprised. I think because there's less and less men with the bravado and the confidence to approach women. Whether we like it or not. I think that is the reality we live in. And I think we have to adjust our new reality. And I think the reality is, is that if you're sitting around waiting, like, I think people could. 15 years ago. I mean, 15 years ago, dating apps weren't what they were. Most people weren't even on them. And if they were, they weren't even talking about. It was like, yeah, I don't know.

Taylor (24:38)

I'm not embarrassing.

Nick (24:39)

It was embarrass. And you thought you could lie about it because, like, no one cool was on it. And so, yeah, people were. Just. Had to be more social in public. They had to go out, they had to make moves. That's not the reality anymore. And. And then within that, like, we've confused people how they're supposed to act. The good news is, is a lot of the people that's really affected are in their 20s, and mostly, I'm guessing you're not really fudgeing with most of them. I do think you guys, I think you and your friends should maybe age up a bit.

Taylor (25:08)

Like, to what, like 50?

Nick (25:10)

Nah, I mean, like 40s. I think there's a handful of guys like me who were unlucky in love in their 20s, had all the confidence in the world, had success with women, knew how to talk to and about women, didn't work out for them, were comfortably single for a while, and then pursued, you know, got their shit together, so to speak, and they might be available. But. Yeah, I mean, who knows? I mean, who knows? But I really. It's. I think there's something there with the sports bar kind of thing. I don't know.

Taylor (25:37)

Okay. A European sports bar. It's where I'm headed.

Nick (25:40)

The European sports bar. Yeah. I do yeah, and I just think extracurricular activities, like what are you guys doing outside of work in the bars or like in dinners, like run clubs.

Taylor (25:51)

And that kind of thing? Yeah, super into that.

Nick (25:55)

But what about beach volleyball or something? I don't know, I just. There has to be kickball.

Taylor (26:01)

Leaves the.

Nick (26:02)

The one. The one good thing you have and all the single and anyone listening who's relating to you on even the men out there is that everyone feels this way, like this is a problem. You know what I'm saying in my optimistic hope is that like as a society, we're going to be like, there's a problem going on. There is an epidemic that people want to meet each other. I mean, we haven't talked too much about it. It was announced not too long ago, but Natalie and I are hosting a new show for Netflix. And I don't want to give too much away, but I was encouraged because part of the show was essentially a big mixer and we through casting a bunch of people from different walks of life and different ages and things like that. It was really encouraging how excited the people were and grateful that we got together a large group of people who all were just like excited about meeting people and everyone was fairly eligible. Well, everyone was eligible and the result was great. Right. And what I, what it told me is that like, yeah, people just don't know how to meet. There's just so many roadblocks and barriers and obstacles to meet. But when you get human beings who are single and available together, connections will happen. And yeah, if you can like curate.

Taylor (27:19)

A room of, yeah, people who might have similar interests, be at a similar stage or a single, like that's awesome. Maybe there's hard to find those rooms.

Nick (27:27)

Maybe there's a business idea out there for you and your friends in your city. Go to the sports bar, find out, then talk to the sports owner, right? And be like, hey, I have this crazy idea. Can I host some kind of fucking mixer? Blah, blah, blah. I don't fudgeing know, I don't know, maybe. Maybe that's silly or stupid. I don't know. And yeah, when you listen, start small. And you know, any business idea is going to have its growing pains. You know, the wrong people are going to show up and whatever. But like the demand for love hasn't changed in the supply chain of how people are meeting. It's all fucked up. The desire for people to meet their person, start a family, if that's what they want to do, hasn't gone away. And that's the One silver lining we all have. You're gonna have to look in the mirror, because complaining about your options, regardless if that's true or not, it just doesn't accomplish anything. And there's definitely changes you and your friends can make or at least try different things out, because whatever you're all doing right now isn't working. I don't have a problem with getting off hinge. Because you find it frustrating. The fact that you're on Raya and not on any other app, I think is a problem. You know, it's. It's.

Taylor (28:32)

No, I think it's more like entertainment value. And you.

Nick (28:35)

I know, but so is porn for some men. And you can argue that porn's, you know, true, all jokes aside, is like ruining dating and ruining sex and ruining relationships. And we have to be careful about how we are entertained because it might be fun, but it is, I think, affecting a perspective. How can you possibly go on Raya and then go on any other apps and. And be excited?

Taylor (28:56)

No, I don't feel great.

Nick (28:58)

You lived in la. You, you know, you lived in la. You know what it's like to hang out in LA and then go to any other city in the world and just go out in public. That like every hot person in every county ever moved to la. The Sixes in LA are tens everywhere else type of thing, men and women. And so it's. And that's what it's like to be on an app where it's only hot people. It's dangerous.

Taylor (29:21)

I'm getting rid of it.

Nick (29:22)

But to your point, it's just like a validation thing where everyone, everyone out there just wants to know how many hot. How many hot people they can match with.

Taylor (29:29)

You know, as much as you, like, have self love and inner confidence. We all like external validation.

Nick (29:35)

And yeah, and you're right, it is fun because every once in a while you're like, oh, my God. Ben Affleck. Damn. Okay, swipe right.

Taylor (29:43)

I know this was a hard question to say, like, yeah, should I just pick up and move to another country? And will dating get better? But I think it's just like, but if you do, overall indicative of where we are.

Nick (29:52)

But when you go to Europe, though, like, I mean, have fun with like, and be almost scientific where you are. You know, last time you went, you had this experience and it made you go back, huh? Is it different here? But now when you go, pay attention to how you move. Not only pay attention to how they move and ask yourself, what. What am I doing differently than I would Here, try to replicate that same energy when you're here. Because there is something about traveling or moving to a new city where you free yourself up from the self judgment and you just. You move differently. If you're always going home early or not, you know, then like the best times on vacation is when you do things differently and say, well, I'm on vacation, so. And then you're like, we just had one of those nights. When was the last time you gave yourself permission to have a night like that here?

Taylor (30:39)

Yeah, never.

Nick (30:40)

So, you know, before moving your life, I would try that out.

Taylor (30:46)

Yeah. I think a big part of it is like your own energy when you're in a new place and like how you present yourself and how you feel and how open you are. Whereas we get into our routines at home and like, you're around the same people and you're kind of like, okay, it's the same thing, and go home.

Nick (31:00)

And clearly those men realize that you are a bunch of American women and they probably gave themselves permission to like, do something maybe they wouldn't do with women in their community. Right. I could picture some American men seeing a group of women and, you know, and realizing they were, you're not from here. Then they'd be like, yeah, it. I don't give a. She lives in Australia. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So there's a little bit of truth to all that, but it's like, try to replicate the things that are working for you. When you're traveling, I think you have.

Taylor (31:30)

To be more aware of, like, the energy you're putting out and how people are perceiving you. You're home and you're just. Nothing's new or exciting.

Nick (31:39)

Apps will always be somewhat useful as long as they exist. And that is how people are meeting people. So it's hard for me to say, don't go on the apps, but I do think culturally we need to change how people are meeting because, yeah, the desire is still there. And I do think there's great. There are. There are great men out there. There are.

Taylor (31:57)

I agree. They're just hard to find.

Nick (31:59)

Yeah. And. But I think they're hard to find because I don't think they present as super sexy eligible. You might not have an immediate crush on them. I mean, the reality is the guy that you see across the restaurant or the bar, that you're just like, oh, my God, he's fucking a lot of chicks. You know what I'm saying?

Taylor (32:15)

You know, like, I mean, most of the guys who I've like, grown to have an Attraction to are people that I worked with. And then, like, over time, you get. You saw them for the first time, you're like, oh, like, Bob's cool. But then, like, you get to know them and you're around them and you. There's like, no pressure. And then attraction grows. I absolutely believe in that.

Nick (32:36)

Yeah. Yeah. You're just gonna have to try things out probably before you move to Europe.

Taylor (32:40)

But I'll stick around a little longer.

Nick (32:42)

All right. All right. Well, hopefully this was helpful. This is one. Yeah. It's hard because it's such a general, like, solve dating.

Taylor (32:48)

Nick, I wanted to challenge you.

Nick (32:51)

Thanks. Well, keep us posted. We'd certainly always love an update. If. If you find any data or feedback.

Taylor (32:59)

I will send it in.

Nick (33:00)

But yeah, I think like a group, if you're going out to dinner with the girls, you're just not going to get a problem. You know, like, we've been told not to approach you, especially at dinner. Oh, my God. Like, what kind of psycho man would do that? You know, in America, his friends would be like, do you want to get shot?

Taylor (33:18)

I should start sending drinks to the table Men.

Nick (33:21)

Honestly, there's definitely an element of, like, we're just going have to fuck around and find out and try things out and not take ourselves so seriously and mix it up. And in the meantime, maybe you can create a small business, a mixer in your community or, you know, because people there. Yeah, there are people out there. There is a lot of lonely men in your city. Wherever you are, I promise you there are lonely men.

Taylor (33:43)

Okay, I'll send you a cut if that business takes off.

Nick (33:46)

No, I don't need it. I'm good.

Taylor (33:49)

Okay.

Nick (33:50)

All right.

Taylor (33:51)

Thank you.

Nick (33:52)

All right, take care. This is an ad by BetterHelp. Well, if you are going through life and you're feeling a little bit stressed or you have something built up anxiety, you should check out better help. If you're someone who's been wondering, could I benefit from therapy? Should I try to get a therapist? Or maybe you tried it in the past and didn't have good luck with the experience of the therapist that you had, or you had a hard time. Maybe you were, like, thinking about therapy and then you didn't know how to find a therapist. Well, maybe BetterHelp is the solution for you. It probably is. There's a lot of barriers that make therapy challenging again. It can be expensive, it can be inconvenient. You don't know where to start finding the right therapist. Well, betterhelp helps alleviate all those pain points it's incredibly convenient. All you need is a device to connect to the Internet and you can be talking with a mental health professional in just a short period of time. However you want to do it. Even if you feel more comfortable not sharing your face, you can do voice to voice therapy. Whatever you benefit from. And with over 30,000 therapists that BetterHelp is working with, it helps ensure that you can find a therapist that's right, right for you. Big part about therapy is connecting with that therapist, feeling comfortable with that therapist. And you know, sometimes you meet with a therapist and you don't feel like it goes anywhere. Well, maybe that's not the right therapist for you. You can switch therapists anytime you want for free with BETTER help until you land on someone that you connect with. So whether it's the convenience, the price, or the ability to connect with a great therapist, BetterHelp has been helping people for over 10 years and running and has a 4.9 rating out of 1.7 million client session reviews. So you know it works. So if you have ever thought about therapy, give better help a try, just go to betterhelp.com, answer a few questions about the challenges you're dealing with and the help that you're looking for and they will connect you with the right mental health professional. As the world's largest online therapy provider, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com v that is betterhelp.com v I a L L well, we've talked about ARTICLE many times before because they have been our partner when it comes to furnishing some of the rooms in our house. ARTICLE has a great selection of mid century modern, coastal and Scandi inspired pieces for every room in your house, including your outdoor space. We have some great ARTICLE pieces in our backyards. They're kind of like fancy beanbag lounge chairs. We also have sunbeds. Really great Article couches are amazing. They come in a great assortment of colors, styles. Also what I love about ARTICLE is not only their selection, but their availability and their prices. So many times when you're shopping for furniture you have to wait weeks, sometimes months for that furniture. But now with Article, most of their pieces are ready to ship right now and their customer care team is amazing. With Article's 30 day satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it this peace of mind ensures you can invest in your home without hesitation. Great craftsmanship, wonderfully durable. The prices will blow your mind. They cut out the middleman. You know they don't have any showroom. So like you're shocked by the prices with the quality that you get with Article. Article is offering fast, affordable shipping across the US and Canada with options for professional assembly if you prefer. A hands off experience. So if you're looking to upgrade any room in your house, be sure to check out Article. Today, Article is offering our listeners 50 off your first purchase of 100 or more. To claim, visit article.comv I l l and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's article.comv I A L L for 50 off your first purchase of 100 or more. How's it going? Hi Nick.

Allison (37:45)

Going well. My name is allison. I am 33 years old and I want to know if I should ask out my doctor.

Nick (37:52)

Oh, okay. Yes. He's not your gynecologist, is he?

Allison (37:57)

No, no, no.

Nick (37:59)

Good. That'd be weird. All right, well, tell us about it.

Allison (38:02)

Yeah, so I've been seeing the same GP for the past like three years. Got a note recently that he was leaving the practice and that I'd be seeing a new doctor. Time I came in. Kind of thought nothing of it. So I showed up for my annual appointment a few months ago thinking like it would be another middle aged doctor, no one really of interest, and walked. A complete smoke show. Like really, really attractive young guy about my age, it seemed. Wasn't wearing a running ring, just like complete charisma. And it really caught me off guard.

Nick (38:45)

He had charisma in the office.

Allison (38:47)

Charisma in the office? Yeah, as the kids say.

Nick (38:50)

Is that allowed for a doctor? What do you know? I'm assuming you try to stalk this guy.

Allison (38:55)

Yeah, yeah, I got all the girls on the case.

Nick (38:59)

What did we find out?

Allison (39:00)

Yeah, so he's relatively around my age, a few years older, from the city I live in now. Originally left for med school, came back into fitness, music. All the same things that I am. Seems like a pretty interesting guy.

Nick (39:19)

Is he single? Do we know that?

Allison (39:21)

We don't know, but I did not see a wedding ring.

Nick (39:24)

Is his Instagram public or private?

Allison (39:26)

Private. Makes it harder.

Nick (39:29)

How many followers does he have?

Allison (39:31)

I don't remember, but I don't. It wasn't like a crazy amount, honestly.

Nick (39:36)

Follow him.

Allison (39:36)

What are the rules for like patient?

Nick (39:40)

Is he.

Allison (39:41)

He's still your Instagram following in the modern age.

Nick (39:44)

We had a call like this years back, I think it was a chiropractor. And I think I told her to jokingly, I mean, of course. Like, of course you should shoot your shot for sure, right? I don't know.

Taylor (different caller) (39:54)

Yeah.

Nick (39:54)

Especially nowadays it seems like there are more doctors than eligible men. So, you know, it's like.

Taylor (different caller) (39:59)

Yeah.

Allison (39:59)

And that's the thing. Normally I'm really not one to be forward or even to, like, contemplate something like this at all, but I've been single for the past five years, moved to a new city three years ago, and the dating scene here is just horrible. And, like, not for lack of trying, I go on dates, but the guys I'm meeting are just so far off the mark that it's a quick no, you know?

Nick (40:29)

And why are they off? Why are they off the mark?

Allison (40:32)

I'm living in the south now from the Northeast originally. So I think there are a lot of, like, life values that are misaligned. Here is part of it. I also think dating in your 30s is interesting because it seems to me the guys I'm meeting are. Fall into one of two camps of the, like, Peter Pan's never growing up type of guy or I don't know what. I guess only one camp. That's what you tend to see out there.

Nick (41:01)

Okay. Oh, we'll table out for a second. Let's get back to the doctor. Yeah, actually, I. I think. I think you send that follow request through. I think that's. I think you send that. Right, let's. And let's. Let's. Let's break down, like, what the possible scenarios are. Scenario number one, he's not on very often. He's too busy being a doctor and saving the world that he just doesn't. He's not on Instagram, he's not active. He never accepts your request because it's just. He's just not on it. Right. And so you send that request, he doesn't accept it. You get nothing from it. So know that scenario, one of you sending that request, he could definitely not accept it. But it really doesn't tell you anything. When's the next time you're supposed to go to the doctor?

Allison (41:41)

In about a month.

Nick (41:42)

In about a month. All right, so you could do that and then assume. Let's assume he doesn't respond. You know, you're still you. Just like, that request is pending backup. You said he has the Riz, so to speak. And I found that to be interesting. You know, given that it's a doctor's office. Do you think he was Flirtatious at all?

Allison (42:03)

No, not unprofessional. And it's hard because like it's the first doctor's appointment.

Nick (42:08)

Right.

Allison (42:08)

So his whole job is like, make the patient feel comfortable, get to know each other, etc.

Nick (42:14)

So then what was so charming about him?

Allison (42:16)

He looked like he had just stepped off of a boat, not like he was working in a doctor's office.

Nick (42:23)

So just like perfectly disheveled in a way. Yeah, like that, that he had like a oxford shirt, kind of unbuttoned a little bit and a little. Just messy and kind of half rolled up sleeves. Yeah, a whole bit. I get it. But like, what was his vibe like?

Allison (42:40)

I don't know, like, very chatty, very friendly, very engaging.

Nick (42:46)

And you couldn't read whether it was like you were getting a little extra.

Allison (42:50)

Attention because I was so thrown off guard. And honestly the whole time I was just thinking like, oh God, he's seen my chart.

Nick (42:59)

You know what's in that chart?

Allison (43:04)

You know, it's never, it's never. You never write into your doctor with your exciting news.

Nick (43:09)

Yeah. You can't find out if he has a girl. Yeah, he probably has a girlfriend. Is he tall?

Allison (43:16)

Average height?

Nick (43:18)

Yeah, he could, it could. I think you send that friend request. All right. Because then if he accepts it. Interesting, right? Then you could a stalk a little bit more. Yeah, there's that. And then let's say there's no evidence of a girlfriend. If he's single, then he is also frustrated with the dating world out there. Right. There's a good chance he has been just deep in the books, so to speak. The fact that he doesn't have a wedding ring I think is a good sign because I think like from a doctor standpoint, it's very similar to like being a professional athlete. Right. There's comes with a lot of intensity and hard work. And I think athletes go one or two directions and I think it's similar to doctors. They're either marrying their college sweetheart, so to speak, and they're like locked in. They know they, you know, they know that they're professional athletes or they know they're going through med school and so they just settle down and they just lock it down and be like, this is the girl I'm going to be with and I'm gonna start having kids, she's gonna be by my side when I'm going through med school and blah, blah, blah. And she wants to lock it down early because she wants to make sure that she's gonna benefit from this investment.

Taylor (different caller) (44:24)

Yeah.

Nick (44:24)

So to speak. Right. And so typically, I think men in that and these very attractive careers, you know, either get married quickly or remain bachelors for a while because they just focus, you know, Then the other scenario is the athlete or doctor who's just, you know, it's like, listen, I'm gonna focus on my job. I'm too young to settle down. I don't have the high school sweetheart. In the meantime, I'm gonna have a good time and I'm taking advantage. I'm the good looking guy who's going to med school or a doctor, and I'm gonna get a lot of sex and yada, yada, yada. So the fact that he's not married, good chance he's single? Maybe. I don't know. The big question is, is that whether he's single or not, what are you going to do about the fact that you are a patient of his and regardless of what he thinks about you, it's just like he, he. There are probably. They're definitely rules, so to speak. Bold move of him to ask you out, that's for sure. That's not gonna happen. Right?

Allison (45:17)

I mean, I've only seen him for two appointments, so it's not like I'd be plenty fine to find a new doctor.

Nick (45:26)

Yeah, for sure. Well, we, I think we're already, we're already assuming that if you get a date with this guy, you're just like, you're moving on. Yeah. I'm gonna have to fire you. And that's kind of your first joke, right? You're just like, I think with the, with a woman years ago who called in, she had the hots for her chiropractor. He ended up having a girlfriend, by the way, it sounds like. But it was kind of like good news, bad news. Like bad news. I'm, I'm actually. Do you know any good doctors? Because I'm actually looking for a new one. That's. And honestly, that, that, that's the line. You know, if you DM them, you're like two questions. One, do you know any other good doctors? Because I'm looking for a new one. Second question. Do you want to go on and out to dinner?

Taylor (different caller) (46:09)

All right.

Nick (46:09)

You can't. You can't send them a message even if you're not friends with them? Is that how that works?

Allison (46:14)

You know, I don't even know. I've never tried that. I think you can. They just don't. They might not see it. It goes into like a special request folder.

Nick (46:22)

Your second option is to go Crazy. And by crazy, I mean just do something that would be pretty bold, fairly brave, and that is at that next doctor visit, you know, just be like, all right, I know. Like, whatever. Listen, if I have to switch doctors, I'll switch doctors because I don't want to make this uncomfortable, but are you single? And if so, do you want to grab a coffee? And you're just gonna have to get through whatever, you know, if he says yes, great. If he's like, hey, I got a girlfriend, or I don't think so. I don't know. I' we get any other answer other than yes, you're just going to have to, like, grit your teeth and get through the fucking awkwardness and then call up the girlies and have a laugh and just laugh at the situation and. But what do you have to lose? A new doctor? Yeah. What do you have to lose other than a little pride, you know?

Allison (47:02)

Yeah, that's true. And like, it's. It's so. I don't mean to sound like, you know, like, I'm exaggerating, but it's really a Slim Pickens out there, I think.

Nick (47:11)

Follow them. Step one. If you can send a message, send that message. It's a, you know, all right, and it's.

Allison (47:19)

What do I have to lose?

Nick (47:20)

Nothing. You know, you don't even know if he's a good doctor. Honestly. He's probably average. He's young. He doesn't. He's lacking experience. He hasn't seen it all. Can't be that good. He's got a better face than he. Than he does a, you know, doctor experience.

Allison (47:36)

Yeah.

Nick (47:36)

He might be like, you might be too young to be my doctor, but you're perfect for my boyfriend.

Taylor (different caller) (47:42)

Okay.

Nick (47:43)

And almost certainly if he is single, this is not the first time he's had to deal with this, so he probably knows how to deal with this.

Allison (47:50)

Probably true.

Nick (47:51)

I'm gonna have to get an update one way or the other.

Allison (47:54)

Yes, definitely. And if you get any doctors calling in asking if they should ask out their patients, you know where to find me.

Nick (48:03)

All right, well, yeah, there's probably some HIPAA laws against that. I don't know. But there's another good line. Is there a HIPAA law against us being a thing? I don't know. Do you think you have what it takes to ask him out in the. In a doctor's office?

Allison (48:21)

I'd have to gear up really hard for that. That would be hard.

Nick (48:25)

Do you think it's realistic that he would say yes if you guys were both singing like, if you met him.

Allison (48:30)

At a bar, I feel like he's more likely to say yes on Instagram than in his place of work. If I met him in a bar.

Taylor (different caller) (48:38)

Yeah.

Nick (48:38)

Maybe it would just be weird to, like, give him a note. I think a lot of people do that.

Allison (48:42)

Give him a note in person.

Nick (48:44)

Right. Well, I'm just saying if. Because if.

Allison (48:47)

Write it into the patient portal.

Nick (48:49)

If he doesn't accept your friend request, you can't assume he saw it.

Allison (48:53)

Yeah, he probably did.

Nick (48:55)

You think so? You think he's pretty online? Does it say how many followers he has?

Allison (48:59)

I think it was like 2000. Is it really not a lot?

Nick (49:03)

2000 is kind of a lot for most people who has no one. He doesn't have 2000 friends. I know that much. 1300 for a private account. Okay. He's probably. He's pretty online. His Instagram's probably popping. He'll probably see it.

Allison (49:18)

He'll probably see it.

Nick (49:19)

Yeah. Send him that request.

Taylor (different caller) (49:21)

Okay.

Nick (49:22)

And then send him that note.

Taylor (different caller) (49:23)

Okay, I'm gonna do it.

Nick (49:26)

All right, well, I'm invested.

Allison (49:30)

I will keep you all posted.

Nick (49:31)

All right, well, good luck. Can't wait to find out.

Allison (49:35)

Thank you.

Nick (49:35)

All right, take care.

Allison (49:36)

Thank you.

Nick (49:37)

I'm rooting for you. Bye. Bye.

Skims Advertiser (49:40)

We spend so much time caring for the skin on our face, but what about our neck? I have to say, working in the plastic surgery field, every surgeon I always worked for was like, yep, the neck is the first to go. The neck is the first to start aging. It's the first thing that shows you aging, and so why not protect it With Go Pure Beauty, they have created their revolutionary titan. And Lift neck cream is perfect for your summer skincare routine. Powered by clinically proven active ingredients, this advanced formula is designed to visibly firm, smooth, and rejuvenate the delicate skin on your neck and chest in as little as four to eight weeks. It's magic. Here's the thing. The skin on your neck is thinner, it's more delicate and less oily than the skin on your face, which means it needs some extra love, especially in the sun and heat. GoPure's firming complex targets the unique concerns of the neck while nourishing and strengthening your skin for more lifted youthful look. For a limited time, our listeners get 25 off GoPure with code V I A L at checkout. Just head to GoPure beauty.com V I A L L. Use code V I A L L and you're all set. And after you buy, do us a favor. When they ask you where you heard about Gopure, tell them it was from our show. Right now GoPure has a crazy deal. For a limited time you can get 57% off the tighten and Lift Neck Cream and Sculpt and Tone Arm Cream bundle. You can also get 25% off all other products by using code V I A l l@gopure.com so head to gopure.com and use code V I L L for a huge discount. And after you buy, do us a favor. When they ask you where you heard about Gopure and here, tell them it was from our show.

Nick (51:05)

Dermalogica knows that your skin is unique and your skin should be too. Dermalogica cuts the noise and hype with professional grade formulas that deliver real results. No gimmicks, no trends, just science backed skin care trusted by pros and designated to work with your skin not just on its smoother, brighter skin in one step. Sign me up. Dermalogica's Microfoliant is a rinse based exfoliant that can be used daily to polish away roughness and texture, revealing smoother, brighter skin. This is a must have step in any skin care routine, especially if you're looking for max results with minimal effort. It's made with calming ingredients like colloidal, oatmeal and licorice, making it gentle enough for daily use even for those with sensitive skin. This daily use exfoliant is perfect for anyone looking for smoother burden skin without the guesswork. Trusted by pros and backed by science, they skip the gimmicks and deliver real results with formulas that work with your skin. So if you want smoother, brighter skin fast, you have to check out Dermalogica's daily microfoliant. Visit Dermalogica.com and use code V I A L L at cart for an exclusive free gift with any $65 purchase. That'S-E-R-M-A-L-O-G-I C A.com use code V I A L L for exclusive free gift with a 65 purchase this fall.

Skims Advertiser (52:22)

Your home deserves smarter scenting. Pura's sleek diffuser connects to your phone so you can swap between fragrances, set schedules and create the perfect autumn mood with just a tap. From cinnamon and crisp apple to rich, cozy woods, Pura makes every moment feel like fall. Upgrade your home today. Shop the Fall collection now@pura.com how's it going?

Taylor (different caller) (52:40)

Hi, my name is Taylor, I'm 27 and I'm wondering if it is wrong to date this guy when I am more interested in his friend.

Nick (52:51)

All right, well, I'm assuming there's a backstory.

Taylor (different caller) (52:54)

There is.

Nick (52:55)

So tell us about it.

Taylor (different caller) (52:56)

Okay, so last November, I went to a wedding, and I met these two guys at this wedding. And mind you, at that time, I. I was in, like, a serious relationship, and they were both aware of that, so nothing, like, inappropriate went down. But one of these guys definitely kind of made it pretty obvious that he was interested or was just kind of like, trying to talk to me, just like being friendly. And so we, like, talked a little bit throughout the night. And it just seemed like we had, like, a good amount of things in common. And he seemed, you know, just like a really good, genuine guy. Very attractive, tall, all great things. And he was, like, drinking throughout the night. So, you know, it could have been a little bit of a liquid, like liquid courage. But at the end of the night, he. He literally said to me, he's like, okay, if you ever find yourself not in a relationship, come find me. And I was kind of like, okay, that's very forward, but just kind of like, went about my life, didn't really think anything of it. Fast forward, you know, maybe six months. I am not in that relationship anymore. And I'm fairly certain, and I mean, now I am very certain that he is in a relationship seemingly very serious and seemingly, you know, happy with this person.

Nick (54:17)

The guy who made the bold move is the one who's now in a relationship that you're, I guess, more interested in.

Taylor (different caller) (54:23)

Correct. So nothing I can really do there. Um, but the other guy at the wedding, that didn't talk to me as much. Um, but I, you know, still noticed him. He's a very good looking guy. He has since reached out to me and asked me out. And I kind of friend zoned him at first because of this whole situation where I was like, I really like his friend, but his friend is taken. But if, you know, by chance maybe they don't work out, then I want to have a chance to date him and see what that could be. But if I go out with his friend and they're pretty good friends, I feel like that would like, like kind of ruin any chance.

Nick (55:12)

How did the guy number two call him? The guy who, who you're considering going out with, did he just randomly reach out to you?

Taylor (different caller) (55:21)

So we have, like, a pretty good mutual friend and whose wedding you were at? He asked our mutual friend about me and, like, found out I was single. And then our mutual friend told me, like, hey, He. He's probably gonna reach out to you at some point, like, do what you want. And so he did. He, like, messaged me on Instagram.

Nick (55:42)

Did you ask the mutual friend about the other guy?

Taylor (different caller) (55:46)

Um, I did, and they just said, like, yeah, he's in a. Like, a serious relationship. I want to say at this point, they've probably been together for, like, nine months, but I feel like there was, like, just this timing overlap of, like, a few months where, like, we missed each other.

Nick (56:04)

To be clear, you don't know much about either of these men. Correct?

Taylor (different caller) (56:08)

True. Yes. However. So I guess another part of it is, like, so guy number one, we'll call him Jack.

Nick (56:14)

Okay?

Taylor (different caller) (56:15)

That's the guy that I'm, like, more interested in. Fake name. And then we'll call other guy Austin.

Nick (56:21)

All right.

Taylor (different caller) (56:21)

Fake names. But I guess, like, the impression that I got from Jack and from the people, like, the mutual people that we know is, like, he's very much, like, you know, was looking for. Was looking for something serious, and just like, seems way more my type as far as, like, really nice guy. Like, very genuine. Was just, like, looking for. Looking for a relationship. Obviously, he is in one now. And then Austin, this his friend, he kind of, like, it's hard to tell because he definitely doesn't give that same energy that he's looking for a serious commitment. Because ultimately, I want to get married and have a family, and I date very intentionally and very seriously. And so I'm kind of like, I don't know if he's looking for something serious. I don't know if he's just kind of in it for fun, like, trying to hook up, which I'm not gonna hook up with him. And I think he knows that. Like, he knows that I have pretty clear boundaries.

Nick (57:26)

How would he know that?

Taylor (different caller) (57:28)

So I. I did go out with him. I. I did go on a date with him, and I basically, like, just kind of said it straight up because he. He said something about, like, it seems like I'm pretty serious about, like, what I want. Like, I know what I want, and, like, I don't mess around when it comes to dating. And I was like, yeah, that's. That's very true. I don't. So it's kind of like, I don't know exactly why he's pursuing me if he knows that I'm very serious about dating. Like, maybe he is. I don't know. So, yeah, I'm, like, not.

Nick (57:59)

I mean, a couple things. I'm just curious. How long you been single for?

Taylor (different caller) (58:04)

Since March Okay.

Nick (58:06)

Not that long. Have you not hooked up with anyone since.

Taylor (58:09)

No.

Nick (58:10)

Okay.

Taylor (different caller) (58:10)

And I, as much as I would love to have sex because I'm definitely a very physical person, but I know myself where like emotions and you know, emotional intimacy and physical intimacy are very much connected and I can get attached.

Nick (58:26)

Yeah.

Taylor (different caller) (58:26)

Easily. And I like am very much a hopeless romantic. So when I fall, like I fall hard.

Nick (58:32)

Yeah. It's great. Self awareness, right? I mean, yeah, like I said, you know, I've said this multiple times but like hookup culture has fucked up a lot of things. And I think it's fucked up a lot because I think like, you know, the women empowerment and sex positivity, while all are great things, like it doesn't change the reality of how sex impacts all of us and how it changes the landscape of any dating situation.

Taylor (different caller) (58:57)

Yeah.

Nick (58:57)

And the fact that you are self aware about what you need emotionally and how sex impacts that and the fact that you are able to enforce that boundary for yourself because that's what boundaries are, is just, that's great. And you've definitely saved yourself probably a lot of emotional distress and frustration by being able to hold that line.

Taylor (different caller) (59:15)

I appreciate that. Well, I think I've done a lot of work to get there.

Nick (59:18)

That's amazing. Second part is it doesn't really, you know, listen, I've said this before. I've written it in my book. Every boy is someone's future partner, so to speak. You know, Jack, as you called it, he's a boy too. Was a boy, you know, probably, probably because he could. Right. And like, because he's a guy and, and, and probably detaches from sex like most other guys do in a way that they, they could around without, you know. And so I've never, I have never in my life as a guy. When a girl says to a guy who has confidence in himself, just so you know, this is how I move. Whatever. If he likes you, that's not going to stop him from liking you. And it's not because he is thinking maliciously. I'm going to get her to have sex with me so I can like, ha, ha ha ha. It's just like, yeah, he's just more like, I don't know. I like you. Sure.

Taylor (different caller) (60:14)

And that's kind of why I think this is going to be hard because I am trying so hard to keep him at an arm's length that he's just going to want it more.

Nick (60:21)

Yeah.

Taylor (different caller) (60:22)

And he's just going to try harder because he's definitely that kind of guy. Where.

Nick (60:25)

Yeah, he'll convince himself he's in love, probably, you know?

Taylor (different caller) (60:29)

Yeah.

Nick (60:29)

Yeah, maybe let's forget about the guy. Number one, Jack, for a set aside, he doesn't exist as far as you're concerned in this moment.

Taylor (different caller) (60:38)

Yeah.

Nick (60:39)

How did date number one go? And are you interested in seeing Austin again?

Taylor (different caller) (60:44)

Day number one was good, I guess. Technically we've, like, hung out a few times, but the first. The first time was like, in a group setting.

Nick (60:51)

Sure.

Taylor (different caller) (60:52)

And he. We, like, went out, he tried to kiss me a few times, and both times I like, rejected him. And then therefore, afterwards, I kind of, like, friend zoned him. And anyways, eventually he reached back out and I agreed to, like, go on a date. And it was. It was good. I mean, it was a lot of fun. And he very much like, like, whined and dined me and took me to, like, a really nice restaurant and we had drinks and all this stuff. And yeah, we did make out a little bit. And I. Yeah, I mean, I'm probably gonna see him again, like, if I'm being honest.

Nick (61:27)

Well, yeah. I mean, I don't care. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah. So it sounds like there's some interest there. You like them?

Taylor (different caller) (61:33)

Yeah, I would say so. Yeah. I just. I don't want to get too invested in, like, attached if he's not serious. And I guess he's got. He's got like, everything going for him, except I. The only thing I don't know is there, it's like the emotional availability part, which to me is very important.

Nick (61:51)

I'm curious. You're like your last boyfriend. How long did you make him wait before you hooked up?

Taylor (different caller) (61:56)

Not long.

Nick (61:58)

So that's going to be the tricky part for you, right? Okay. Because, like, what you've gotten good at that, right, Is knowing yourself, Right. Setting that boundary by, like, I'm not gonna. I'm not hooking up on the first, second, or third date. I'm not, you know, like. And maybe in the past you were just like, yolo, I want to have fun too. I like sex. I should be allowed to do that. You did it. You didn't like how you felt afterwards, yada, yada, yada. So now you made those adjustments and yeah, you are dating to find a husband. You're not dating to, like, right, have sex. The hard part for you is going to be when you like this guy, right? You're attracted to him. You've had some good times. You like where it's going. What are you. What are you going to do on date 14. And you've been hanging out consistently for six weeks. Because I can tell you that I don't care how many if you. I don't care if you hung out every day for those six weeks. The fact that he is a guy who is used to not waiting long to have sex and the fact that you are in 2025, one of the few people out there who has that self awareness and confidence in herself and can hold that boundary and say, no, I'm not going to do that just makes you insanely attractive to him and every other guy. Right. So to your point, he's just going to be like, it's going to be like a challenge. A challenge. Right. And so, and with that, he will convince himself it's not a challenge. You just won't really know the difference. And all I'm saying is six weeks is, is this not enough time to build a bond with someone where you can really make sure that like sex won't change the equation? And you're almost gonna have to get past a point where it really isn't about the challenge anymore. He really enjoys spending time with you. Yeah, it's, you know, you're gonna almost have to remind him just like, hey, you know, it's going to almost sound radical to him where you're going to be like, I don't like if, if when I was single, if a woman I was attracted to was like, like really, it was like, I don't know, we're dating for three months. Like, I don't even know, you know, because it's. No one does that anymore, you know? Yeah, yeah, but listen, also, I want, I want you to give yourself grace in the sense that, like that to that point there's a challenge is. Look, all right, as far as the other like, just like, let's just consider Jack for a second. Right? The reality is you don't know Jack. Right. And you hadn't, you had a great meet cute with Jack and he gave you a sexy confident line at the end that felt was like, oh my God. And then you were like, you want you. Whatever was going on with your boyfriend at the time, you are he. You know, there you told yourself, if I was single, I would have absolutely said yes to this guy. And as things went bad with your old relationship, he was a reminder for you, Jack, about what, what was, what was available to you as a single woman. And so Jack represents this idea of this person and you've definitely built him up in your head. So there is that Right.

Taylor (different caller) (64:59)

For sure. For sure.

Nick (65:00)

Without question. Let's assume that, all things being equal, you are more compatible with Jack than you are Austin. And this is a. This is a sad story of just, like, wrong timing and Pat. It's just things not lining up. It's just not your fucking time yet.

Taylor (different caller) (65:15)

At. Yeah.

Nick (65:16)

And this idea that you're afraid of saying yes to Austin because what if. What if Jack breaks up with his girlfriend? You know? And, yeah, if you don't have. This might help you out, but. Because if you don't have sex with Austin.

Taylor (different caller) (65:30)

Yeah.

Nick (65:31)

Almost certainly that will.

Taylor (different caller) (65:34)

It'll be okay.

Nick (65:35)

It'll be okay. It'll be okay. And. And even if you do, I don't know, like, listen, it takes a more mature man to. To not have that bother him. I don't know how close these guys are, if they're more casual friends or besties.

Taylor (different caller) (65:51)

I think they're pretty dang close. Like, if I. If I do start, like, seeing Austin, there's a good chance, like, I would hang out around Jack and his girlfriend at some point.

Nick (66:03)

Yeah.

Taylor (different caller) (66:04)

Yeah.

Nick (66:04)

And she's gonna want to be your friend, maybe.

Taylor (different caller) (66:07)

Which would be so much worse. I can hold out on sex, but it's like, I guess, for how long to hope that maybe they break up in the next, I don't know, three to six months, when maybe they won't, and maybe they are, like, supposed to get married. And if so, like, that's great. I'm happy for them. But it's like, there's always, like. Like, what if.

Nick (66:28)

But does Jack know you're single around?

Taylor (different caller) (66:32)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Actually, yes, he 100% does. Yeah.

Nick (66:36)

All right, then I think that's a data point that you need to acknowledge.

Taylor (different caller) (66:40)

What do you mean?

Nick (66:42)

Yeah, it means he's probably pretty into his girl and girlfriend, and it's going pretty well. And.

Taylor (different caller) (66:46)

Yeah, it seems like it is from.

Nick (66:48)

An outside perspective, from his mind.

Taylor (different caller) (66:50)

Like, I'm not gonna get in the way of them if they're in love. That's great.

Nick (66:54)

You know, I think you need to get out of your head about Jack. You gotta let it go. I really. Yeah, Yeah, I. I agree. He probably knows his. But his. He probably knows his buddy is going out with you. You.

Taylor (different caller) (67:06)

Yeah.

Nick (67:07)

And he doesn't care. And it's fine.

Taylor (different caller) (67:09)

Maybe he does. But he's. I mean, yeah, he doesn't. He doesn't care.

Nick (67:12)

He doesn't care.

Taylor (different caller) (67:13)

It's fine.

Nick (67:14)

It doesn't care. I mean, yeah, if you took your clothes off in front of him. He'd look, but he doesn't care. You know what I'm saying? Like, he.

Taylor (different caller) (67:20)

Yeah.

Nick (67:21)

A guy who has the confidence to do what he did with you at a wedding is a guy. Like, the difference between what you experience with him and what he experienced with you is, especially in 2025, you're just not. Not. I mean, the last two callers I talked to made it very clear. And, you know, I know how hard it is out there of just, like, they. How hard it is to have a. A moment like you had at a wedding with a guy who can have a good conversation, seems like he wants what you want, and, like, hits you with that, like. Well, you know that, like, sexy line where you're just like. And that makes that left a mark on you. You know what I'm saying? And for him, he.

Taylor (67:58)

He's.

Nick (67:58)

He's pulling that. He was pulling that. Yeah. Whether he's look, dating to get married or not, this is a guy who. Who knows how to do that, and he's confident in doing that. And he didn't leave. He might have left being like, oh, what a great girl.

Taylor (different caller) (68:12)

But, like, I mean, to be fair, like, a few weeks after the wedding, he made an Instagram account. Like, he didn't have it in one before, and he made one, and I was, like, one of the first few people that he followed. And he did end up, like, DMing me at one point, just, like, responding to a random story, like, just in a friendly way. Like, it wasn't even flirty or anything. And I was still in a relationship at that point, but I definitely took a note because I was like, okay, obviously he wasn't that drunk at the wedding, and he was still thinking about it, like, weeks later, which I was kind of like, fuck. I mean, I guess that doesn't really matter in the scheme of things, but.

Nick (68:53)

But there's no. Yeah. There's no perfect path forward. Right. Because if you.

Taylor (different caller) (68:57)

And he doesn't have an Instagram anymore, he, since then has deleted it again. Otherwise I honestly would have just DM'd him and said the same shit. Like, if you ever find yourself single again, let me know. And, like, that's it. But I can't even do that because he doesn't have an Instagram anymore.

Nick (69:15)

He's completely offline.

Taylor (different caller) (69:17)

Yeah.

Nick (69:18)

That's kind of crazy.

Taylor (different caller) (69:20)

Yeah. Which is like. Okay. Kind of a green flag, to be honest.

Nick (69:25)

You know, I think there's. There's not being that online and there's offline. I don't know. I don't know.

Taylor (different caller) (69:30)

He, like, seems like very much like husband material kind of guy, which is why it's kind of hard because I.

Nick (69:36)

Think you keep seeing Austin, as long as you like him, you take it real slow.

Taylor (different caller) (69:42)

Yeah.

Nick (69:42)

And. And very friendly.

Taylor (different caller) (69:44)

Okay.

Nick (69:45)

Yeah. And definitely very slow physically. And maybe you'll see Jack sometime soon. The question is if you see Jack. Probably the question is, if you see Jack, you're gonna have to read the room and you're gonna have to see if there's like a grin or an awkwardness.

Taylor (different caller) (70:00)

I just feel like there wouldn't be because he just.

Nick (70:02)

Well, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this, all right? Do you think the little bit you know about Jack, do you think he's the type of guy to give his now girlfriend a heads up about me? Yeah.

Taylor (different caller) (70:13)

I don't know. I don't really know, like, what kind.

Nick (70:15)

Of heads up he would give if I were Jack.

Taylor (different caller) (70:19)

Yeah.

Nick (70:20)

And I met you at a wedding and we had a talk and I was single and I thought you were attractive and where I was flirty with you and I found out you had a boyfriend, and I fed you that line and I moved on. And even if I, like, left and was like, damn, fuck, man. You know, like, I really was feeling her. And then I even created an Instagram account and kind of left, like, followed up on you and. And gave a little peek and only to confirm that, yep, yep, she's in fact has a boyfriend. Then I was like, you know what? Whatever, she's got a girlfriend. And then I. My boyfriend. And then I, you know, met Natalie, my now wife. Right. I. And. And then my buddy who was at the same wedding was like, I'm. Turns out she's Taylor single. I'm gonna ask her out. And he's like, yeah, well, good for you, man. Go. And then I found out that. And then he was like, well, let's all get together, brother. I'm gonna bring Taylor. I would 100 have told Natalie right off the jump. I would have been like, just. Just so you know, like, I definitely, like, flirted with this girl at a wedding. I even asked her out. Now he's going out with her. Nothing happened. But, like, I would 100.

Taylor (different caller) (71:23)

Yeah.

Nick (71:24)

And if. And I. Again, if he is a. If he's the guy you think he is, he would. That's. That's the only right thing to do. Yeah, I don't. I don't. Maybe I'm.

Taylor (different caller) (71:34)

Yeah, I don't. I don't know. Honestly. I mean, I could I could see him doing that for sure.

Nick (71:38)

Wouldn't you, if you were her?

Taylor (different caller) (71:40)

Yeah, I would want to know.

Nick (71:41)

You'd want to know? You'd want to know if you were like. Yeah, you know, the, there's nothing worse, right, than, than being in a group of people and someone knows something that, that's juicy about you directly or indirectly that you probably should know or that you might feel a certain way but they're not telling you because they've decided maybe you don't need to know or they don't want to upset you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, those are the things you want to know more than anything.

Taylor (different caller) (72:07)

So, I mean, there's a good chance that like, because we have mutual friends and I've like asked our mutual friends about him. Jack, like, there's a good chance that like, they all know that I've like asked about him and like Austin might even know that I, like asked about his friend. And I mean, if he asked me, I'd be like, yeah, I'm not going to lie. Because he seemed more serious about dating and he like kind of doesn't, you.

Nick (72:34)

Know, so, so he still seems like he's unserious about dating.

Taylor (different caller) (72:38)

It's, it's kind of like I can't, I can't tell.

Nick (72:41)

How old is Austin?

Taylor (different caller) (72:42)

He's almost 29.

Nick (72:45)

How old is Jack?

Taylor (different caller) (72:47)

Same age. And like you, you've talked about this before, but they're both very much like in the kind of top 1% of men because they're all so tall.

Nick (72:58)

Yeah.

Taylor (different caller) (72:59)

Attractive, like very successful. Like he owns a home. Like, yeah, like over six foot. And I'm like, fuck, I don't even need an over 6 foot man. Like I'm 5 4. I don't need them to be that tall. But he just happens to be. And so I'm like, he, he like knows he's hot. Like, yeah. And he's got good, you know, he's got game. So I'm sure he picks up women very easily. So why would he want a serious relationship right now? I don't, I don't, I don't know if I believe it. Not that he said that that's what he's looking for, but, but you could.

Nick (73:34)

Just listen, like, you're, you're a confident person and that's a great thing. And the difference between what I assume is you and a lot of other women out there is like, well one, it's just tough to be confident out there because this dating climate. But like, it's just tough to have the. The discipline to, like, set and enforce your boundaries. And the more you are just more like, I know what I want and I'm just not gonna. Gonna around anymore. The more attract again, like, whether. Whether it's because it makes him or you will be more like, that is an attractive quality period. Right. And Austin is gonna have to decide whether you're worth it or not, you know?

Taylor (different caller) (74:12)

Yeah.

Nick (74:12)

Most guys are full of where. Because they'll say, like, I know I want to have a family. Pause Paul Sauce someday, you know, and you're just not sure about when that part is where you're assuming that Jack is like, you know, listen, when I find the right one, I'm ready. These guys in their late 20s, so they're still, in my mind, they're still really young, but in their mind they're about to hit 30. And mentally, you know, most guys, even the tall, confident ones, are. Are not. If they've had a decade of dating and having fun, they're not necessarily like, they may. It may end up that way, but I don't think they're planning and having another decade of just meaningless sex and casual dating. They may. It may end up that way because they can and dating culture is what it is. But yeah, you're just gonna have to fit. You know, I think the more confident you are about what you want and showing more than telling.

Taylor (different caller) (75:07)

Yeah.

Nick (75:08)

You'll find out pretty quickly where. Where Austin stands about even the potential of dating. Yeah. And I think you focus on that. And I think the fantasy of Jack is. I have to forget about that right now for now. And then, like, listen, if you end up. I'll be really curious when you guys end up getting together as a foursome, so to speak. And I'd be really curious if she already knows and says something to you because he said something to her. I would honestly see it as a. You know what the crazy part is, and this is the kind of up part, is that. That let's assume two weeks from now this. This scenario happens, right? And in two weeks, you're not going to be in love with Austin. You're not going to have had sex with him yet. You're still going to be very exploring things. It's going to be, you know, very casual, very friendly, very chill. And there's going to be a part of you that's going to want Jack to give you a look or something or make a comment or something, some kind of validation that lets you know that while he is single and happy and that, like, it. He didn't forget that time, he meant. And if nothing else, kind of give you the. Yeah. You know, just not in the cards for us. Right. Like, it. It's. It's gonna be a bit of a red flag if he does that. Yeah.

Taylor (different caller) (76:32)

Yeah. I honestly don't think he would. Like, I think he's pretty, like, very respectful. Yeah, I guess we'll see. But I honestly don't. I don't want to get to that situation where I'm around them with Austin at the same time, but I could definitely see it happening.

Nick (76:52)

So do you think you could tell if another woman wanted to. Was into your guy?

Taylor (different caller) (76:59)

Probably.

Nick (77:01)

Yeah.

Taylor (different caller) (77:02)

But I don't think I have. You stalked her would be that obvious?

Nick (77:05)

Do you know what she stalked her. Do you know what she looks like?

Taylor (different caller) (77:07)

Oh, I for sure stalked her. Yeah.

Nick (77:09)

And do you think.

Taylor (different caller) (77:10)

And she's like, perfect. Like, honestly, she's seems in like incredible. So I.

Nick (77:16)

She's like. Yeah. She's not like you. You're. She's your equal, so to speak. Or you're. You get it?

Taylor (different caller) (77:23)

Yeah. Yeah. I. I feel like I don't even know if I could compete with her. So I'm kind of like, okay, I get why he's like very much seemingly in love, so.

Nick (77:32)

Well, maybe she's an emotion. Maybe she's a nightmare. Personally, I don't know.

Taylor (different caller) (77:35)

Like, may. Yeah, maybe.

Nick (77:37)

Because all you know is like, what you. You're judging this mostly off of looks?

Taylor (different caller) (77:41)

I mean, no, I would say, like what other people have said or like just.

Nick (77:47)

I mean, they have nice things to.

Taylor (different caller) (77:48)

Say about lots of stalking too. Yeah. She seems like a very nice person. And like, I. He seems very healthy. I guess so. I. It's like, I don't think there's like, toxicity. I have no idea.

Nick (78:03)

I. I think. I think you pursue Austin. You know, just be very self aware about your boundaries. Take it slow. Listen, if you end up hooking, like, if it like. Listen, I think you do got to let Jack go and let's. Okay, let's take Jack out of the picture again. I don't know how realistic it is. Assuming you keep liking more and more about Austin and things just are going in the right direction that like two months from now and you're feeling. You know, it's. You're. You love. You realize that you love spending time with this guy and he's seeming. You're gonna hook up with him. Probably.

Taylor (different caller) (78:36)

Yeah, probably.

Nick (78:38)

And that might change things a little bit and you might regret it, so to speak. I mean, at that point, I just think it's. I don't think. I guess what I'm saying is, like, don't, like, listen. At some point, you can't protect yourself from frustration, pain, disappointment. And all you can do is what you're doing now, which is be more intentional. Hold that line a little bit more. Make sure there at least is some rapport. Right. Like, you know, I mean, I don't.

Taylor (different caller) (79:06)

I don't think I would have sex with him at all unless we get to a point where there's, like. Like a deep level of trust and, like, emotional connection.

Nick (79:16)

Yeah, I know, but that's hard to really figure out. Right. And even the whole, like, if you were. I thought you were about to say, I wouldn't have sex with them until there was some level of commitment. But even then.

Taylor (different caller) (79:26)

Well, yeah, I mean, I would. I would say. I would say that. Yeah, too.

Nick (79:32)

Sure. But I'd be careful saying that to him because. Fine. All right, cool. Let's commit.

Taylor (different caller) (79:38)

And then the next week, it's like, just kidding.

Nick (79:40)

Yeah. Or more likely, he just slow bleeds it for like a month so he doesn't seem like an. And then, like.

Taylor (different caller) (79:45)

Right.

Nick (79:46)

You know? Yeah, it's.

Taylor (different caller) (79:47)

Yeah.

Nick (79:48)

You know, but you. You just notice emotionally, he's a little different afterwards.

Taylor (different caller) (79:54)

Yeah. Yeah.

Nick (79:56)

How do you feel? I mean, this is the. Kind of a weird question, but how do you feel about, like. Like going to third base or second base with him?

Taylor (different caller) (80:03)

I feel like I could not. Like, I think if my clothes came off at all, I'd be like, let's just have sex. I. I don't think, personally I could.

Nick (80:12)

The reason why.

Taylor (different caller) (80:13)

Anything more than, like, kiss. Yeah. Without just giving in fully.

Nick (80:20)

All right, well, this is not scientific. This is just my opinion of being a guy. But I think when it comes to. Men are very physical, visually. Right. And I think when men meet women, there's like. Quite honestly, there's like. There's a question men ask themselves, and that is, do I want to see her naked or do I not give a. What she looks like naked, you know, and naked, you know, And I. I really think it's more than that than, like, oh, I just want to have sex with her, so to speak, you know, because, like, sex is not as. There's. I don't know, like, and. But. But letting a. Like making out with a guy and going to second base and. And doing some stuff. I'm guessing. You tell me. I'm not a woman like you. It doesn't have the same emotional Impact on you is actually going all the way.

Taylor (different caller) (81:14)

Yeah. I wouldn't say it's the same.

Nick (81:16)

Yeah.

Taylor (different caller) (81:17)

I would say that it still, like, creates a level of, like, attachment, though.

Nick (81:22)

No doubt. But yeah, I think all men want. Men want to know if there's, like, physical chemistry, because I think. I mean, men and women care about that too. All I'm saying is it's like, to kind of split the difference and maybe you could extend the time if you can show that willpower by, like, rounding some bases but not going all the way home.

Taylor (different caller) (81:43)

Yeah.

Nick (81:43)

I think that. I think you might be able to get a sample of how he might be with you post sex.

Taylor (different caller) (81:51)

Yeah.

Nick (81:51)

Type of thing. And that way it feels like there's less pressure on actually having the sex. But, like.

Taylor (different caller) (81:57)

Right.

Nick (81:58)

He feels like I'm giving him a.

Taylor (different caller) (81:59)

Little bit, but not everything.

Nick (82:01)

Yeah. Right. And then he can decide whether, like, did I really enjoy. You know.

Taylor (different caller) (82:07)

Yeah.

Nick (82:08)

You know, do it. You know, because.

Taylor (different caller) (82:10)

Yeah.

Nick (82:12)

The act of sex for men is. It's not. It's not.

Taylor (different caller) (82:18)

It's physical. It's like.

Nick (82:19)

Yeah.

Taylor (different caller) (82:19)

Mostly physical. Yeah.

Nick (82:20)

You know. Yeah, it is. And men are. Men are. Have emotional needs, but like. Yeah. How do you. Men are going to fall in love with you when they. They. When they miss you and they. Yeah. When they think about you and.

Taylor (different caller) (82:34)

And.

Nick (82:35)

And I think there is a level of emotional intimacy that combines with physical intimacy. Like, with men. It's weird because I don't think men are very good at foreplay. Like, they're obviously notorious for, like, not. Not being good at that. But I think the men who are able to do that. I do think men emotionally connect with that part of sex, if that makes any sense whatsoever. 1. If they're willing to do that with a woman, it shows a level of. Of caring.

Taylor (different caller) (83:06)

Yeah.

Nick (83:07)

And von. And vulnerability for men. And if men are vulnerable with you, you know, and open up to you in a way or anyway, that's that they. They fall for you in that way and the sex has nothing. That's not. Sex is not vulnerable for men. It's exercise for them.

Taylor (different caller) (83:26)

Yeah.

Nick (83:26)

Honestly.

Taylor (different caller) (83:27)

Yeah.

Nick (83:27)

And so I honestly think that there. If. If you're able to hold off from that, but like. Yeah. Have some physical intimacy without the sex. I think it'll help you understand how you. How you guys feel if each other better. Because, you know, again. Yeah, I don't. I really think there's something there. Let me know if I'm right if you try it out. But.

Taylor (different caller) (83:48)

Okay. I mean, I'm definitely gonna hold off on that for, like, a while, but I. I think I could do that if. If he earns it. That's the thing.

Nick (83:57)

Yeah. Well, don't take yourself that seriously a little bit. I mean.

Taylor (different caller) (84:01)

What do you mean?

Nick (84:02)

Just be careful. Well, because when you say things like the mentality, if he earns it, you're. You. We kind of agreed earlier that you're. You're. You don't want a guy to pursue you just because he's competitive.

Taylor (different caller) (84:12)

Yeah, that's true.

Nick (84:13)

So the mentality, if he earns it is you're. You're instigating a competitive side to whatever guy you're dating.

Taylor (different caller) (84:22)

Right.

Nick (84:22)

When you have that mindset.

Taylor (different caller) (84:24)

I think it's more so if. I mean, I've even told myself, like, it's not. Yeah. Like, it's not happening. And unless he were to, like, show me that he really, truly is interested in me and likes me and cares about me and, like, can emotionally open up to me and, like, be vulnerable with me.

Nick (84:40)

Totally. Totally. Just don't make physical intimacy a dangle, a carrot you're dangling, because then it just becomes something he wants to chase.

Taylor (different caller) (84:48)

Okay.

Nick (84:49)

You know, don't give him, like, measurables to meet or go. Like, if you want this, then do that. Just be like, listen, I just. Yeah, I take things really slow physically. That's all I'm gonna say. But if. If you want to kiss a guy, kiss the guy. You know, that's all I'm saying is, like, don't hold out to be difficult or. Because you're not. You know, if you're feeling it, just make out right if you want to do it. But that's when you. That's when you have to know yourself about, hey, I like this. I like where it's going. I'm not ready to go to this part of the relationship. So no matter what I say yes to, I gotta enforce that boundary. Because you know that, like, it's. When things get hot and heavy, it's harder to enforce those boundaries. So that's. That's. That's what you got to know. It's. It's. But don't play that game of cat and mouse and dangling the carrot and being like, I don't. You know.

Taylor (different caller) (85:41)

Yeah, I don't think. I don't think I'll do that.

Nick (85:43)

Cool.

Taylor (different caller) (85:44)

Yeah.

Nick (85:44)

Because. Yeah, you. You. If you're to really get to know this guy, it has to feel organic and natural and normal. And, like, as things progress, everything has to progress, you know, type of thing, if that makes any sense.

Taylor (different caller) (85:57)

Yeah, yeah, no, it does.

Nick (85:59)

Okay. Is this helpful at all? I don't know.

Taylor (different caller) (86:02)

I think so. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think I, I honestly needed to hear it from like someone else to like put Jack in the past because I, I just can't. I can't hold out for that when I have no idea what could happen. And ultimately I don't know him at all really, as a person. I know very little. So. Yeah, I guess I just gotta see how this goes, see how this plays out.

Nick (86:28)

Yeah. And if Austin's really as much of a boy as you're worried he might be, you should be able to figure that out pretty quickly.

Taylor (different caller) (86:34)

Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

Nick (86:37)

Yeah. And if, if, if what Austin is, is a guy who like, yeah, I don't know, wasn't that serious about finding his person in his 20s. But like, if he meets the right girl, he's, he. He can be serious and can be. Just pay attention to certain things. Right. Like for example, so many people are very like always have excuses for why the right thing is hard to do. You know, the right thing for Jack, if, is to tell his. To give his new girlfriend a heads up that this girl that he's about, she's about to interact with is someone that he asked out in the past and who had a boyfriend at the time. And now she's like, that's. And he's a good chance he won't. Right. And forgetting about Jack. But Austin, pay attention to, to, you know, how, how people should move and what. And who have high character in the face of like, you know, high character is when people are just like, that's. That would be a, that would be a heart. And he does the hard thing because. Not because it's popular or. Right. But just because he has conviction about it, you know, because it sounds like that's the type of person you're looking for. Right. Who like, wants to like. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, he's not, he's not 22 and I think any 29 year old guy who has, who wants to get married someday would be happy to settle. And if he is that much of a boy, where he's still very much in a very. He's a very unserious guy about dating. You should be able to figure that out pretty quickly.

Taylor (different caller) (88:07)

Yeah, I think so. Especially if I'm not gonna have sex with him.

Nick (88:11)

Well, I do think you're gonna have. You will. You will have to be a little vulnerable. Like, you know, you're gonna have to like that's fine.

Taylor (different caller) (88:18)

I can definitely, like, I have no problem being vulnerable. Sometimes I'm a little too vulnerable.

Nick (88:22)

Sure. Well, let me ask you this. Like, let's say you guys. You and. You and Austin hang out for, like, a month.

Taylor (88:26)

Month.

Nick (88:28)

Wherever you are, you're not going. You're not having sex, no home base. And he's like, let's take a long weekend together, wherever. It's like a trip and you share a hotel room and things like, stuff like that. You might. You know, you're gonna have to. You're gonna have to do the honeymoon phase a little bit. Even while you're playing, while you're taking things slow.

Taylor (different caller) (88:46)

Yeah.

Nick (88:46)

In a weird, you know, way. And, like, just give him. Give. Give Austin an opportunity to. To step up at the A. And. And give you boyfriend material vibes.

Taylor (different caller) (88:57)

Yeah, I have no problem with that.

Nick (88:59)

Cool. Awesome. All right, well, I'm. I'm invested. I'd love to know where this lands.

Taylor (different caller) (89:06)

Oh, man. Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

Nick (89:09)

No, no problem.

Taylor (different caller) (89:12)

I. I also have to say, like, this is just, like, a really cool moment right now. I've, like, watched you literally, since Bachelor days and so. And, like, listen to the show for many years, so this is just kind of cool. Like, full circle. I don't know.

Nick (89:27)

Well, I appreciate.

Taylor (different caller) (89:28)

I was happy to finally have, like, some juicy question to ask you.

Nick (89:31)

Oh, I appreciate you saying that. And thanks for calling. Thanks for listening and following along. And. Yeah, it's. I. I said this before, that, like, you know, this show, this Asnik, is the most rewarding part of this show. The other stuff is fun, a little toxic and a little messy, but this is. I learned. I learned a lot, too, and this is fun for me, so thanks for being a part of the show.

Taylor (different caller) (89:52)

Yeah. Thank you.

Nick (89:54)

All right, well, please follow up, because I am dying to know one way or the other.

Taylor (different caller) (89:58)

Okay.

Nick (89:59)

What happens especially if the four of you get together?

Taylor (different caller) (90:02)

Especially if we sleep together.

Nick (90:03)

No, the shirt. That, too. But if the four of you get together, I really. I really want to know if Jack. Jack gives her the heads up.

Taylor (different caller) (90:12)

But how would I know that? You think she would say something to me? Yeah, I doubt it. I don't know.

Nick (90:18)

What would you do? Wouldn't you just break the ice?

Taylor (different caller) (90:21)

I don't know. Probably not really. I don't know.

Nick (90:25)

Yeah, you might not know. Well, yeah, also, if he. Because if he tells her again, if I were to tell Natalie right early in our dating situation, just so you know, I just organically would know that she is gonna, like, not Like, I'm gonna. I, I would be. So I just wouldn't give you anything. You know what I'm saying?

Taylor (different caller) (90:46)

Right. Yeah.

Nick (90:47)

So if he doesn't give you anything and just says, hey, it's good to see you again, you know?

Taylor (different caller) (90:53)

Yeah.

Nick (90:53)

And just very much. This is my girlfriend. Nice to meet you. And like almost pretends that that little meet cute you guys had never happened, but acknowledges that he's met you before her, then there's a good chance he told her.

Taylor (different caller) (91:06)

Yeah. Okay.

Nick (91:07)

And I, I guess I'm really just more curious about how he handles himself.

Taylor (different caller) (91:11)

Yeah.

Nick (91:12)

Because. Yeah, I'd be curious.

Taylor (different caller) (91:14)

All right, well, I'll let you know.

Nick (91:16)

All right. All right, well, good luck out there.

Taylor (different caller) (91:19)

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Nick (91:20)

All right, take care.

Taylor (91:21)

Bye.

Nick (91:21)

Bye.

Taylor (different caller) (91:21)

Bye.

Nick (91:36)

Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L, I B S Y N ads.com today.