← The Viall Files
The Viall Files
Traitors w/ Yam Yam and Sandra, Baldoni News, Grammy's, RHOP, RHOBH & Vacation Recap
01:49:34
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- [00:00]
Host 1
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- [01:38]
Nick
The five houses is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Hey, you chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.
- [02:00]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
You're crazy.
- [02:12]
Nick
What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the VI Files Reality Recap edition. I am your host, Nick, joined by my tan, sun kissed, wonderful, gorgeous wife.
- [02:29]
Natalie
I didn't listen to Nick when he was like, put on the sunscreen. Wear sunscreen.
- [02:32]
Nick
She was like, sun's the sun, Eddie. You ever seen that movie?
- [02:35]
Natalie
I was like, all you need is one good burn and then you're set.
- [02:38]
Co-host 2
For summer turns into a tan.
- [02:40]
Co-host 3
You're the sunscreen skincare queen too.
- [02:42]
Natalie
No, I don't. I would not give myself that name.
- [02:44]
Nick
But if you would like to name.
- [02:45]
Natalie
Me that, I will take it.
- [02:47]
Co-host 4
Vitamin D is a very important vitamin and how can you get it if you're blocked it with sunscreen?
- [02:52]
Co-host 5
I didn't believe that I needed sunscreen for a really long time growing up.
- [02:56]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Which is crazy.
- [02:59]
Nick
Yeah. Cuz you're on the fairer skin side.
- [03:01]
Co-host 5
Yeah. And I lived in Florida so I would just pop out, I didn't moisturize, I didn't put sunscreen on and.
- [03:07]
Nick
And then your hair turned pink.
- [03:09]
Co-host 3
Speaking of. Happy birthday River.
- [03:10]
Co-host 4
Happy birthday.
- [03:11]
Natalie
Happy birthday.
- [03:12]
Co-host 5
Happy birthday River.
- [03:13]
Nick
Two year old Happy hair. New pink hair. Mary.
- [03:16]
Co-host 2
First, most importantly Mary's hair is.
- [03:19]
Co-host 5
Most importantly my hair looks great. Thank you.
- [03:22]
Co-host 2
Second, most importantly, it's River's birthday.
- [03:24]
Nick
It is River's birthday today. Happy birthday to our baby. Dear River. So we took a little trip. We went to River Araya.
- [03:33]
Co-host 4
Ooh, great destination.
- [03:35]
Nick
Little getaway to you know, enjoy the three of us celebrate our daughter's birthday.
- [03:40]
Co-host 4
And how did you.
- [03:41]
Nick
It was. Yeah. I honestly for the first time in a while unplugged a little bit. It's not easy for me.
- [03:46]
Co-host 4
I was like I know that's not true. I saw the group chats Nick B. It's Saturday.
- [03:52]
Nick
I was only Sunday morning. I was only responding.
- [03:56]
Natalie
He's like. And I was three hours ahead.
- [03:58]
Co-host 4
He said can you please respect my privacy on this vacation? Also who do we have on Monday?
- [04:04]
Nick
Yeah, that's not how it went down.
- [04:06]
Co-host 4
I'm just kidding. I'm just teasing.
- [04:08]
Co-host 5
You did send a really nice text about my fan cam that I made though. So thank you.
- [04:12]
Co-host 4
Yeah, yeah.
- [04:13]
Nick
I was just trying to compliment people.
- [04:14]
Co-host 5
He was being nice. You did great.
- [04:15]
Natalie
Yeah.
- [04:16]
Co-host 2
He also texted us and told us to take off early on Friday to get drinks.
- [04:19]
Co-host 5
Oh yeah he did.
- [04:20]
Natalie
Wow. Great boss.
- [04:22]
Co-host 5
Pretty rockin.
- [04:23]
Co-host 4
Great. He was in just like such a.
- [04:24]
Natalie
Great mood because we were on vacation.
- [04:26]
Co-host 4
That's when I was on vacation. Everyone, everyone goes on vacation.
- [04:29]
Co-host 2
Not complaining.
- [04:30]
Natalie
Yeah.
- [04:32]
Nick
And then on set I was definitely feeling very reflective, very in my feelings, very kind of just feeling gratitude about life and things like that on I.
- [04:44]
Natalie
Think we were very also just like present because we've never really taken a trip like just the three of us and like fully unplugged and like not you know it's not been for work or like you know for our honeymoon my mom so graciously came along so that we could still spend time with each other. And this trip, we were like, we're just going, the three of us. We're gonna celebrate River. So we really all three connected, and we were all very, like. Yeah, I felt we were all very grateful and connected, and we just. It was.
- [05:15]
Nick
It was lovely.
- [05:16]
Co-host 4
How many nights?
- [05:17]
Natalie
Three nights. Four days, right?
- [05:20]
Nick
No, four nights. We got there Wednesday night last Sunday. I don't know what the math is, but we had a lovely time on Friday night. We had a nice little balcony. And then I took a Gummy.
- [05:31]
Co-host 5
Yeah.
- [05:32]
Nick
And then there was a wedding at the hotel next door, of which there were some lovely women who said hi, who listened to the show. If you're listening, shout out, thanks for saying hi. And I heard the wedding dj, which was like. He was good. And I was.
- [05:48]
Co-host 5
That's.
- [05:48]
Nick
I'm chilling on the balcony by myself. Families asleep, gummy digesting but hitting. And honestly, it was like. It really just. There were some songs that, like, brought me back to different phases of my life, as music can do.
- [06:05]
Co-host 5
Yes.
- [06:05]
Nick
And I was just feeling it just on the gummy, you know, thinking about my life and. Yeah. And, yeah, the DJ was really good. Yeah. Anyways, it really made me think. Natalie and I have said this before about our daughter. We often refer to her as our. Our miracle baby. Obviously, you know, we love her. Maybe we're biased, but, like, as we know, you guys know, Nally's obviously very open about some of the miscarriages she's experienced. We've been able to hopefully identify what was causing that, but, like, realizing that when river showed up, like, she just. We had no complications. There was nothing there. And it really kind of felt very much like a miracle for her to be here. And there's, like, a million reasons why we think of river that way. But, like, I'm up there on the balcony thinking about my life, and it really just made me think about, you know, because Natalie and I were talking about, like, how River's like, our miracle baby. And it really honestly does make you feel like. I mean, I remember so many moments in my life. Like, I'm old enough to, you know.
- [07:03]
Co-host 2
To reflect on things.
- [07:03]
Nick
There are relationships that are, like, a lifetime ago, you know, where it's just like that. That relationship or that time in my life played a huge role in my life. And it also is like a. It's like a fever dream, you know, it was so long ago. And then you think about, like, all the disappointment or heartbreak or frustrations or things not going your way. I Mean, I remember some breakups. I remember one I was. I was living with Phyllis, and then I was remembering. It was. I was down bad. I was like, honestly having a meltdown. And I was on the phone with my mom saying some of the craziest because I was just, like, so upset about what was. What was happening. And it just. You think about all those moments that, like, didn't go your way or heartbreak or things that left scars like, you.
- [07:50]
Natalie
Thought you wouldn't get out of. You know, you're like, yeah, you know.
- [07:54]
Nick
It'S just like a time in your life where you're just like, this. Like, this will never pass, you know, and the people of this too shall pass and things like that. But, like. But I'm on the balcony and I'm. You know, I'm thinking about my life and I'm thinking. So I'm thinking about all these moments. And then obviously, Catherine o' Hara passed, as we all know, which was very devastating and very sad. And I'm. I'm watching all these tributes to. To Catherine, all of which are beautiful. And here's this person who truly seemed to live a very full and wonderful life, from accolades to, like, the friendships. You know, she's just one of those people where everything just has. Everyone had something wonderful to say about her. And there's this video going around of Catherine. I think it was her last interview that TMZ did of her. And they're asked, you know, what's the role that you will be most proud of? You know, I guess when you.
- [08:40]
Co-host 3
When.
- [08:40]
Co-host 4
When kind of a crazy question, like.
- [08:42]
Natalie
You'Ve played so many iconic characters, you've been in so many iconic movies.
- [08:46]
Nick
Do we have the clip?
- [08:47]
Co-host 5
We do have the clip.
- [08:48]
Jam Jam
When all is said and done, which one role would you most like to be remembered for?
- [08:53]
Nick
Mother of My children.
- [08:55]
Jam Jam
What about acting?
- [08:56]
Nick
That's. That's a good role.
- [08:58]
Jam Jam
Like a personal role.
- [08:59]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
His wife.
- [09:00]
Jam Jam
Oh, that's good too.
- [09:01]
Nick
So anyways, I watched that, and I'm just like, obviously on vacation with my family. My daughter's birthday is about to come up, and it really, you know, it really hit home for me. And it really made me think about, like, just all these moments in my life where, like, I, again, things didn't go the way I wanted. My expectations weren't met. I was heartbroken. And then you, like, for. At least for me, and I think I speak for my wife as well, you know, but, like, when you're. Your kid shows up, like, you're just like, holy shit. You think about all the. All. All the little moments in your life. Every little moment. I always, like, think about, like, the butterfly effect, right? Like, I don't know, have you guys ever been like, I wish I could do that, you know, that time in my life over, you know, or should I? What if I went to school here instead of there? Or, you know, and then, like, sometimes you think about that, you're like, well, I don't know. I might not have been friends with that person or that person. Sometimes you're like, well, you know, I would have met new friends or whatever. But when. When your kid shows up, you're just like this. I would never. Like, everything had to happen for this night for river to be here. The butterfly, like, every. You know, so every. Every heartbreak, every disappointment, everything that didn't go my way, like, turns into, like, a miracle. That's just part of your journey that, like, had to happen for river to show up. And, like, it just kind of made me think about that and think about Catherine. It's just like, it is a reminder that, like, it tends to be the most intimate and meaningful connections you have that are the things that you care about in life. You know, whether that's children, whether it's a spouse, whether it's a friend, a brother and sister. But it are. It is those connections that you really care about. And it's generally not, you know, an award you got at work or, you know, a raise or a job or, you know, or something. It tends not to be. And anyways, thanks to Catherine for reminding me of that. I also thought about my wife when I met Nally, like, the show existed. It was a popular, successful show, but, like, I'm living in Venice. I'm renting. But just objectively speaking, my life. I have so much more in my life after Nally showed up in it. You know, I talk a lot about on this show, like, how your decisions matter and, like, you, you know, like, think, you know, you have to. But, like, making a decision and choosing each other and choosing my wife is, like, objectively made my life better. I have so much more now in my life than I had before I had you in it. And it's just, like, kind of great to see that doesn't always happen for some people. They're like, damn, things really went off the rails. But I'm very grateful to, you know, I don't think the show would be where it is if it weren't for you. And obviously, I don't think we would have River.
- [11:43]
Natalie
You definitely would not have river, you would probably have some other baby, wouldn't he as cute, wouldn't he as fun?
- [11:49]
Co-host 4
He might still be out there playing the. The single.
- [11:51]
Natalie
Yeah, that's true. You could still be single.
- [11:53]
Co-host 4
He could still be rollerblading in Venice.
- [11:55]
Co-host 2
Getting massages.
- [11:58]
Natalie
And painting Bob Ross.
- [11:59]
Nick
I mean, listen, my single days, I appreciate them. They were great. They played a big role in my life. They were also probably the saddest times of my life.
- [12:08]
Co-host 4
Shout out, Phyllis.
- [12:09]
Natalie
You know, shout out.
- [12:11]
Nick
And this is someone who can really enjoy being alone as the introvert in me. But like, loneliness catches up to you, you know, Sometimes after a while, you're just like. Anyways.
- [12:21]
Natalie
Well, we also have the Age of Attraction trailer that dropped over. I think it dropped Thursday.
- [12:29]
Co-host 5
It looks really cool.
- [12:30]
Natalie
I think we should play it.
- [12:31]
Co-host 2
When you tell people your age, they.
- [12:33]
Natalie
Put a stigma to that.
- [12:35]
Brent McLeary
The truth is, when love is there and love is real, age will matter.
- [12:42]
Natalie
Here, age is just a number. You'll be dating without ever knowing how old your partner is.
- [12:48]
Nick
I don't know if these guys are.
- [12:50]
Natalie
My age, my dad's age, my grandpa's age. I'm getting nervous.
- [12:55]
Co-host 2
Good luck.
- [12:57]
Co-host 3
What are you gonna get, an oyster shooter?
- [13:00]
Natalie
I say we go for it.
- [13:01]
Nick
Just cause they're an aphrodisiac.
- [13:03]
Jam Jam
Yeah.
- [13:04]
Natalie
Do you want to hear something absolutely insane?
- [13:07]
Co-host 4
All this chat about aphrodisiacs and everything.
- [13:11]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
That it's like kids in a regular situation.
- [13:16]
Natalie
I would probably want to fix you.
- [13:18]
Jam Jam
Up with my daughter.
- [13:20]
Nick
God, I'm petrified that he's too young.
- [13:25]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
My oldest is 29 and I think.
- [13:28]
Co-host 4
He'S in his 30s.
- [13:30]
Brent McLeary
Everyone thinks I'm significantly older than I am.
- [13:32]
Co-host 3
I think I'm going to shock her.
- [13:34]
Brent McLeary
Got your seatbelt on?
- [13:37]
Co-host 3
I am.
- [13:39]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Oh, my God.
- [13:49]
Natalie
March 11th only on Netflix.
- [13:54]
Nick
I think you guys are gonna like it.
- [13:55]
Co-host 2
I want to know how old he is, like, so badly.
- [13:57]
Natalie
I can tell you if you tell me how. I can tell you.
- [14:02]
Co-host 2
I really want to know.
- [14:04]
Natalie
You can't wait a few weeks?
- [14:06]
Co-host 2
No.
- [14:06]
Co-host 3
Okay.
- [14:07]
Co-host 4
Can you wait an hour?
- [14:08]
Co-host 2
I'm not Pat.
- [14:10]
Natalie
Right.
- [14:11]
Nick
What are the people saying?
- [14:12]
Co-host 3
I mean, people seem excited for it. I think, like, it's one of those shows where it's a concept that makes people want to watch, regardless if you're into dating shows or if you're just fascinated by the potential outcome of that.
- [14:22]
Nick
It really brings out the haters and the fans.
- [14:24]
Co-host 2
Yeah.
- [14:25]
Natalie
Yeah, it does. It's like, oh, my God, I hate this so much. But definitely will be watching.
- [14:30]
Co-host 4
I was like, remember everyone's opinion when they heard the concept of Love is blind, and we're just like, oh, for fuck's sake. That's never gonna work. And then it's like, oh, my God, season 25. Let's fucking go.
- [14:38]
Co-host 2
Well, we are at season 10. I mean.
- [14:41]
Natalie
Yeah.
- [14:41]
Co-host 4
Yeah, it works. Is it crazy watching a trailer for what y' all filmed and, like, knowing that it's. It's coming and everything not only coming together, but it's coming out?
- [14:50]
Natalie
No, it's crazy.
- [14:51]
Nick
It's exciting.
- [14:51]
Jam Jam
Yeah.
- [14:52]
Natalie
It's really.
- [14:52]
Nick
Natalie crushed it.
- [14:53]
Natalie
I mean, I wouldn't have been able to do any of that without you.
- [14:55]
Co-host 2
So did you guys do, like, a lot of coaching with them? Like, did they ever come to you for advice? Like, you know how in the Bachelor, like, Jesse Palmer is, like, giving advice to people? Or at least there are scenes of it. At least there are scenes where he's doing that.
- [15:12]
Nick
We have a couple. There's a couple scenes. But again, it's really. We're just, you know, as hosts, you learn as hosts. It's. It's not about us. It's not about you. You're just the vehicle. Obviously, we were, you know, we're very grateful to Velvet Hammer, the production company who came up with this idea and obviously thought of us to be its host. And given our age difference and our wonderful relationship, you know, I think. You know, I think the hope is we are an example that this can work for people. It's not for everyone. It's for some people. But I think this general premise, like Love is Blind, is that, you know, it's a. People are challenged out there to find connections and relationships and what society kind of pushes you into or what the dating apps push you into. Sometimes you're not really focused on just the compatibility aspect, but really just more focused on, you know, initial chemistry or what you think you're supposed to go for. And it was really exciting to see how this environment that we brought, you know, 40 singles into really opened their eyes to different possibilities. And obviously, that, you know, experience is something I had with my wife, you know, when we first met. We joke about that story, about how it took a while for me to wake up. But, yeah, we're excited about it and happy to be a part of it. And we were very appreciative of Velvet Hammer and Netflix for including us.
- [16:33]
Co-host 3
I did see comments of how did I not get cast for season one? And how do I get cast for season two? So.
- [16:39]
Natalie
Well, I'm fingers crossed that there is.
- [16:42]
Nick
A but you have to watch the.
- [16:43]
Natalie
First, yeah, you are gonna have to watch. There'll be season two.
- [16:46]
Co-host 5
If you want to be casted on.
- [16:47]
Natalie
Season two, you must watch 40 singles, 20 women, 20 men.
- [16:52]
Co-host 2
How many couples, how many people does it follow?
- [16:54]
Nick
You're gonna have to watch. There's a lot of connections. There are more connections than relationships they end up following. Because again, we didn't really. You. We didn't force anything. It was. People were allowed to date who they wanted. So that included some people who were very similar in age and there were other people who had larger age differences. The show being the premise that it is tend to follow those relationships, that there were more age differences but there were a ton of connections made which was very encouraging and just kind of speaks to the authenticity of the environment that created. We do have a great episode lined up for you. Brent McLeary joins us in a moment. He has been very actively following the Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively case. And while a lot of people out there, it seems like there's a lot of, you know, misinformation and more just like opinions. Even us, obviously we have a strong point of view but like, I think at times we're not into the weeds of some of the granular details. And then like when I, you know, when we speak on it, I always wish I could probably be more articulate about it. But he is someone who that I have followed with great interest and someone who I think really has an accurate picture of some of the finer details of this case, specifically the retaliation aspect of this case that, you know, Blake is bringing forward against Justin. And I think there is more and more information coming out that is eye opening and I think very damning. But it's always hard for me to kind of present that in a way that's digestible for you guys. So we thought we'd bring on Brent to help us understand so many things going on and being presented in this case as we follow it. Also, we have former faithful of two seasons ago in the castle. Sandra Diaz twine from Survivor, winner of Survivor, a two time Survivor winner, Queen.
- [18:36]
Co-host 2
Of Survivor, Queen of Survivor.
- [18:38]
Nick
So she joins us in a later this episode to help us break down the most recent episode of Traders. Also Jam Jam will be joining us as well to talk about his unceremonious exit.
- [18:50]
Co-host 4
That was brutal.
- [18:51]
Nick
But he went out with a bang, I gotta say.
- [18:53]
Natalie
He did.
- [18:54]
Co-host 4
Against his will.
- [18:57]
Co-host 5
Oh yeah, he did.
- [18:58]
Nick
So that is all going on. Plus Karen Huger is out and she had a nice conversation with Andy. I'm, I'm already obsessed with her.
- [19:07]
Co-host 4
Oh yeah, the grand da.
- [19:09]
Nick
Oh, there's clips of so much to like.
- [19:11]
Co-host 3
Clips of the reunion trailer.
- [19:12]
Nick
The, the reunion. Oh my God.
- [19:14]
Co-host 3
Karen talking to Wendy when she comes.
- [19:17]
Co-host 4
In, being like, I hope you all were on your best behavior or whatever she said. I was like, oh, you need to talk less.
- [19:22]
Co-host 3
Listen to me, whatever that line was.
- [19:24]
Natalie
Professor, you need to speak. You need to shut the fuck up.
- [19:28]
Nick
It was wild.
- [19:29]
Co-host 5
Incredible.
- [19:30]
Nick
Wow. We got some Bev Hills, so lots to get into. Also, do not forget speaking of Netflix show Temptation Island. It'll be coming this year. And finally the Vile Files is doing a live show. The Netflix is a joke festival is happening May 6th in Los Angeles. And if you want to see finally the Vile Files live on the road, we will be in Los Angeles with the cast of this upcoming season's Temptation Island. So lots of fun. Bring your girls, bring your partners, bring yourself. Doesn't really matter. We will be having a great time. So join us on May 6th. Tickets are now available. Just go to the link in the episode description or our website for more information. You can get those tickets now. They are going to be going fast, so do not wait or you may miss out. Also, Vile Files plus is available. It's ad free now, so if you don't want to listen in whatnot, you can sign up for Vile Files plus for ad Free Episodes plus update Specials where you get all your favorite updates from our Aspnic callers as well as our deep dives into all your favorite reality TV shows like Traders, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, Salt Lake City Housewives, all that and so much more. And our Pop Extra Roundup. So lots of things to get yourself through the day with Vile Files plus. So just go to our website and sign up. It's free to sign up. You'll be glad that you did all right. Up next, Brent helps us break down some of the new and very shocking evidence that is coming forward out of the Blake Lively and Justin Bodoni case. And that is next.
- [21:04]
Natalie
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- [22:04]
Nick
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- [23:26]
Brent McLeary
Thank you for having me. Pleasure to be here.
- [23:28]
Nick
Well, very excited to have you. I told our audience that I have been following you on Social for some time now because I've really enjoyed your coverage of this case. And anyone who's listened to the show knows kind of the position where I stand, which obviously, as this case unfolded, I followed it with great interest specifically around the retaliation aspect of this case. It is a little scary to think about the way people can use social media to now go after their accusers or their enemies or just people they don't like and how that can have just a really devastating effect on the people who are affected.
- [24:07]
Host 1
But I do think a lot of.
- [24:08]
Nick
Things are lost in this case with all the discourse going on online. And it seems like the intention of a lot of people who file this case, especially the ones supporting Justin, that they want to bring in confusion. They want to bring in a bunch of like, well, let's, let's break down Taylor Swift's and Blake liley's friendship and etc. Etc. Et cetera. Where I feel like a lot of the very important details of this case seem to be getting lost in all of the kind of, I guess, distraction. So I would love for you to just kind of give us your breakdown of how you've seen this case so far and then specifically help us understand and help my audience understand just the retaliation of this accusation leveled against Justin Baldoni and who is tagged and who have they represented in the past and what are the. Some of the tactics that they use and why is it so damning for this case as it relates to Justin?
- [25:03]
Brent McLeary
Yeah, so I think you hit the nail on the head there, right, Nick, is this case, when you pull back, it's not necessarily about Blake Lively or Justin Baldoni, but in the way that which the press is being weaponized to discredit victims or anybody who speaks up about misconduct or any of these sorts of allegations. And we've seen this time and time again when a woman speaks up and then she's just ripped apart in the press. So tag that Justin Hyatt is his crisis. PR is founded by Melissa Nathan, who used to work at Hiltzig Strategies. And so when she left, she took a number of her clients. And so she has like a history of kind of representing these men who end up with having problematic allegations against them. And there seems to be this online backlash against them. And through this case, what we've seen is because Blake Lively alleged that she came forward with these sexual harassment claims, they agreed to workplace accommodations, filmed the second half of the movie without any incident, but that Justin kind of got nervous that he saw that Ryan Reynolds had unfollowed him on social media and Went to his publicist to say, hey, I want a plan. I need something to feel protected. So he hires Melissa Nathan and the crisis PR team, and they come up with a plan to protect his reputation and to go after Blake Lively. Now, they have said that they only plan to do this. Their defense has been, yes, we came.
- [26:22]
Co-host 3
Up with a plan.
- [26:23]
Brent McLeary
This was our plan. We were going to attack her on all of these things, and we're going to attack her for having a history of being difficult to work with and being tone deaf. And then an online campaign kind of came up along all those same talking points. But it's just a coincidence that they match all those same talking points. And what we've seen is all around.
- [26:41]
Nick
The same time of that they were trying to execute their plan.
- [26:44]
Brent McLeary
Yes, yes. Like, the day after they say, hey, let's execute the plan, suddenly the plan just unfolds, just organically. And organic has been their big keyword. And what we've seen is just a couple of weeks ago, a bunch of evidence got unsealed on the docket, and it shows that Melissa Nathan and her team were talking to each other about, hey, we should plant a story in one case with the Daily Mail saying, hey, we should do a talking point about how problematic it was, how she misrepresented the movie, didn't advertise it. Well, she's tone deaf. And they list out all of these talking points, and then they talk to the Daily Mail, and two days later, Alison Boshoff prints an article talking about how problematic Blake Lively is. She marketed her alcohol brand at an after party. She was doing this. She wasn't talking about all of the domestic violence, everything that's in their list of talking points. And then they're shown Tag celebrating the article saying that Alison Boshoff came through for us and, like, congratulations. Oh, thank you. And so we have all of the pieces of this showing that for the duration of the campaign that they hired Tag for, they were planting articles. But it wasn't just articles against Blake Lively, which is the confusing thing about this. There was an article that came out in the Hollywood Reporter exposing that Justin had hired Johnny Depp's crisis pr.
- [28:04]
Jam Jam
Right.
- [28:04]
Brent McLeary
Which looks bad. And the idea was that they kind of pinned this on Blake Lively's pr, saying she had obviously planted this to harm Justin. Text messages on the docket show, however, that Melissa Nathan herself planted this article and then was joking with journalists afterwards about how this was going to bring in all of the problematic men that they were going to hire her now. And that like she could corner the market essentially on problematic men looking for pr.
- [28:29]
Nick
So it was almost like she planted that story. Just it was her own priority.
- [28:33]
Brent McLeary
Yeah, there's text messages between her and the author, Pam McClintock, and Melissa Nathan's asking like, hey, when can I expect this article? But it's a pattern of behavior from Tag where a number of their clients have these smear sites that support them and defame their targets. A whole bunch of fake social media accounts, and then they seed these links across the Internet. And they did this for the Alexander brothers. They've done this for Amanda Ghost, Stephanie Jones, which is how the whole Blake Lively thing started in the first place, was that Stephanie had seen this smear website against her and started to investigate. She hired a forensic firm and that's what then uncovered all of the text messages showing that Justin was then hiring Tag to do the same against Bly Glively. So pulling back, we're now seeing this campaign by Tag and Melissa Nathan where she's been working with Justin's lawyer, Brian Friedman, and this other gentleman by the name of Jed Wallace, who's kind of like a digital fixer to basically enact these smear campaigns to kind of change online opinion. And they've been doing this for, it looks like about a decade. And all of this is now being uncovered just simply from this case.
- [29:42]
Nick
That's crazy. And then again, when you think about it like, Justin before this case started was a man who made his entire career in platform, presenting himself as an ally and a self identified male feminist and things like that. TED talks about this wrote book and if you're having a hard time believing Justin would do something like this, again, it just speaks to like, why would this guy, you know, there's this famous TED talk where Justin's like, are you man enough to even believe the women if their allegations are even against you? And so then here's this guy who had some, you know, again, like the initial allegations were just like, hey, you're making me feel weird and uncomfortable at work. And here's a list of like, what, 17 different things that just stop, right? It was just more like, I'm not taking this any further. Just like, can you stop being weird at work and then we'll move forward. And his response to that was to hire this, you know, this, this team of people who had a long list of even if, you know, even if Justin at that point would thought of himself as this great guy, there was clearly a long list of people who, many of which had some very damning accusations against them. And unless you're delusional and think all of these men are just victims of resentful people, it would be a really bad look for a guy who thinks of himself as this ally to want to hire this group of people who have such a long reputation of going after women or going after victims, many of which are women.
- [31:17]
Brent McLeary
Yeah, And I think that's the thing for me is, like, if you have this platform, you would think that you would surround yourself with people of a similar mind, and that somebody, even if Justin himself was kind of lost in that insecurity and that fear of, oh, things are going to come out about me, that somebody would pull him aside and say, hey, you realize doing this is counter to everything you stand for. And in fact, his publicist, Stephanie Jones, had actually reached out to Wayfarer and to Justin to warn him about Melissa Nathan and said, hey, this is the sort of stuff she does. This is what she covers up.
- [31:49]
Co-host 3
Up.
- [31:49]
Brent McLeary
You don't want to hire her because not only is it bad luck, but this could damage your brand and your reputation. Even if you just hire her and you genuinely believe that you are being falsely accused and you want to push back, this is not the way to do it. But it seems, knowing the history of Melissa Nathan, they didn't really investigate much further. And I suspect it's because that's exactly why they wanted to hire him.
- [32:11]
Nick
How do you think this case unfolds? I mean, not specifically with just Blake and Justin, but to your point where it's just like. Like the Internet's only getting more and more out of control. And if there's one company like Tag who's doing this, no doubt there's going to be more people trying to replicate what they're doing.
- [32:27]
Host 1
How do.
- [32:28]
Nick
I mean, is it just. Is that what the Internet has become? You know, these people who, like, where. Where can we find protection so. Or. Or victims out there so they don't have to worry about people, you know, like, what's stopping the average Joe from having a vendetta against a coworker and hiring someone and paying a little bit money to have them harassed online or bullied because they, you know, they. They want to discredit them.
- [32:54]
Brent McLeary
Yeah, unfortunately, Nick, I think the answer is there isn't really. Right. And that's kind of really the big takeaway from this case. A bunch of advocacy groups and organizations submitted amicus briefs to the court to kind of give more of that framing to talk about this. And that's exactly what they talked about is that this is unfortunately something that can happen to any regular person who makes these sort of allegations or encounters this kind of misconduct that the courts are often used to weaponize against them. And that you can file a countersuit against somebody baseless and just kind of drain them financially, emotionally, force them to go through discovery and have to hand over all of their text messages and invade their privacy. You know, even after you have gone through these really disturbing and uncomfortable situations, then your abuser still then gets to weaponize the court and go after you. And right now, there just are not protections. There was a new law that was passed in California to kind of combat this and to give triple penalties against somebody who files these kinds of lawsuits. And that's one of the key decisions in this case that's going forward is it'll be a test of that new law to see whether that gets enacted about against Justin and his now dismissed claims. And his now dismissed lawsuit could end up being a real financial penalty to him. And Blake Ladley would be awarded, like treble damages for him trying to weaponize the courts against her and silence her.
- [34:17]
Nick
As someone who's followed this case with great closeness, how do you think this case will play out? And do you think there will be a time where the general public or the people online at this point, people are just like committed to their point of view? Or do you think there's a chance that some people might hear more and more about how these people work and become aware of their ability to be misled or manipulated online?
- [34:46]
Brent McLeary
I've definitely seen from my own audience the comments that I get that there is a section of people who did initially believe Justin or have been kind of convinced by some of the disinformation and that now having seen the evidence that's come out and like you talked about, this is not just Blake Lively. Now, a number of other women on that production have come out and said that Justin made them uncomfortable, crossed boundaries. I think, like through the depositions. I think we have like 10 women in total now from not just it ends with us, but other productions as well. And I think that has helped to turn the tide. But I do think you're right that there is a certain section of the Internet who now will never move on from this, regardless of what happens in the court case, that whenever there is a Blake Lively project or whenever she's mentioned, there's going to be a ton of comments repeating these same things, even if they end up getting dismissed out of court. And you know, there's a financial impact to that.
- [35:35]
Jam Jam
Right.
- [35:35]
Brent McLeary
There's a damage to your career and your reputation that you will never be able to undo.
- [35:41]
Natalie
I feel like I've seen a lot of, you know, anytime an article or social media posts something about this case, I feel like the comments are always either hashtag, Justin, justice for Justin, or, oh, my God, I'm so tired of seeing these two people's faces. Do you think part of their tactic was, like, let's just put so much out there that everyone is just so tired of hearing about it that no one cares by time we actually come around to the trial?
- [36:09]
Brent McLeary
No, absolutely. And if you look at the scenario planning document that Tang put together, they talk about that of, like, they really want to push all of this information out there to just kind of make people bored of it.
- [36:20]
Jam Jam
Right.
- [36:21]
Brent McLeary
Because if you can get that initial wave and put your story out first, and then by the time the corrections come around, everybody's like, oh, I'm so over it, then effectively your messaging and narrative has won out. So all of this has become a PR battle. And when you think about, like, underneath it all, what this is about, you know, making women uncomfortable on set. A man who really used his platform as, like, somebody who was safe for women and wanted to make this movie. And the whole reason Colleen gave him the rights to this movie was that that she felt he was the right person and he was a safe person to do this. And now you have not just Colleen, but Denny Slate, Blake Lively, Alex Sachs, and the screenwriter Christy hall, all saying that he sidelined them on this project and didn't really listen to their input and made them uncomfortable. It's just so disheartening to see his platform weaponized and used in this way.
- [37:12]
Nick
Yeah. And what's also so crazy about it, too, is while these things may start inorganically, I do believe, and I quite honestly know that what's crazy is like, once you get something started, then the organic part does happen. Because the way people operate, you know, the Internet is all about trends, right? Your dancing trend, your lip syncing trend, whatever, whatever is going viral. People want to jump on. They want to have their viral moment. So if they notice, you know, anti Blake and pro Justin content performing better, there is an incentive for those people to make that content and then double and triple down. It starts warping your perspective of reality, and you just start jumping on trends and giving your point of view. And then that. That. That part is organic. It started inorganically. But what's crazy is just how easy it is to manipulate Other people. And those other people can feel included by being part of some quote, unquote, movement that never was authentic in the first place. But that part is even crazier to think about.
- [38:18]
Brent McLeary
Yeah, and, I mean, we see that a lot, like, as we have all of these discussions about, like, celebrities and reality tv. Right. The conflict and the drama is really what gets people engaged. So the more you can lean into and sell that, you can start that wildfire, you know, with an initial spark. And then from there, let's kind of people's natural inclination to really dive into the controversy, explode that out. But the danger here is we're not just talking about celebrity gossip. We're talking about somebody who was in an unsafe work environment, made these complaints. And what that does then is just make it so much harder for everybody else, not just celebrities and reality stars, but regular individuals who come forward with these sorts of allegations. Because people have been trained through this process to dismiss and to just instantly disagree. Throw out that, oh, she must be lying, or, like, she's doing it for attention.
- [39:11]
Nick
That's crazy. Well, Brent, I really appreciate you taking the time. Where can people find you, follow you, if they want to learn more about the stuff that you're following?
- [39:18]
Brent McLeary
Yeah, absolutely. So go by the handle xpatriarch over on TikTok, YouTube and Instagram, like you said, covering the case and doing a lot of the work, showing what's actually on the docket rather than what's in the tabloids.
- [39:31]
Nick
Keep up the great work and come back soon. We appreciate you taking the time.
- [39:35]
Co-host 2
Time.
- [39:35]
Brent McLeary
Thank you so much.
- [39:36]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Thanks, Brent.
- [39:37]
Co-host 2
Thank you.
- [39:39]
Natalie
Crazy.
- [39:40]
Nick
Yeah, it's crazy. Anyway, we appreciate Brent, but that is why we've had the position we've had for the longest time. And it matters less that Blake Lively and Taylor Swift might refer to Justin as a bitch and maybe matters more about how Jastin handled someone coming forward and saying, hey, you're. You're making me feel a little uncomfortable. And instead of just, like, respecting those wishes, you know, spent thousands and thousands of dollars to destroy these people's credibility. I mean, it's. It's really dark. I mean, think about it. You know, it's just like when you feel like the whole world's coming at you and making these just horrible comments about you in your DMs, just harassing you. Like, most people aren't built for something like that and know how to handle that and don't have the resources and the support system to protect themselves. That's a scary world, you know? And for all the people who think that it was Blake and Ryan who are the powerful people and not Justin. Justin's, like, business partner is a literal billionaire, and he was his financier. And so in the terms of finances, you know, Justin has a lot of power and access to money and things like that. So that part is, you know, really. It's just wild. Anyway. All right, well, flipping it to a slightly lighter note, let's get into some headlines that happened over the weekend. We had the Grammys. Justin Bieber hot, hot. As I've been told.
- [41:11]
Natalie
Chapel Roan hot. It's giving us a taste of Coachella and hot.
- [41:16]
Nick
Maybe I'll go, you know, maybe I'm not the Chapel Roan. It didn't do it for me.
- [41:21]
Co-host 5
She's not for you.
- [41:22]
Nick
Not for.
- [41:23]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Not.
- [41:23]
Co-host 3
Not for you.
- [41:24]
Co-host 5
Not for you.
- [41:24]
Co-host 4
Did you see that clip of Sabrina Carpent the carpet with the paparazzi? And she was like, you guys are really quiet this year. Chapel Brown really made a movement, huh?
- [41:32]
Co-host 5
Did you. Did you see that clip of her being. They were like, what's your. Like, it was at Sundance because she was there for the moment with Charlie, and they were like, what's your all time favorite, like, moment with the paparazzi? And she's like, probably when I told them to shut the fuck up. And I'm like, I love when she's a bitch. It's my favorite thing in the world. It's hot as fuck.
- [41:51]
Co-host 3
It was a good Grammys. I mean, you even had Cherry forgetting to announce the winner and then announcing the wrong winner.
- [41:57]
Co-host 2
Did you see that again?
- [41:59]
Co-host 4
No, it was Adele says Dizzy Adele.
- [42:03]
Co-host 3
No, she fully.
- [42:04]
Co-host 2
I'll never get over that.
- [42:05]
Natalie
Oh, it's the funniest thing.
- [42:06]
Co-host 3
She fully walked off stage and forgot. Like, she did her little speech and was like, okay, cool. And then walked off. And then he was like, sure, you want to announce the winners? And then she comes back out and then she says, like, I think the runner up.
- [42:16]
Co-host 5
No, no, no, no. So what happened is she basically, she starts announcing the winner, and then she's like, like, oh, I thought I was going to read this off the teleprompter, but I have to use these cards. And then she opened up the card and then she was like, it was Kendrick Lamar and SZA's Luther. And then she said Luther Vandross, but she didn't even say Luther Vandross. She said Luther Gangross.
- [42:39]
Nick
And then it cuts to Kendrick and.
- [42:41]
Co-host 5
Sza and then she's like.
- [42:42]
Co-host 3
She immediately tried to backtrack. No, she Goes oh, oh, I. I mean Kendrick Lamar end. And it was too late.
- [42:47]
Co-host 5
I think she should have gone. Never too much. Never too much enough. Too much.
- [42:50]
Natalie
Do I remember when Kendall Jenner was reading a teleprompter? Reading a teleprompter. Was it for One Direction?
- [42:57]
Co-host 4
I don't even remember.
- [42:58]
Co-host 3
I just a while ago.
- [42:59]
Natalie
It was so long ago. It was so long ago.
- [43:01]
Nick
But reading a teleprompter is hard.
- [43:02]
Natalie
I bet it goes kind of fast, doesn't it? Yeah, you have to really keep up.
- [43:06]
Co-host 3
You can't take your time. Yeah, no.
- [43:07]
Co-host 5
Also it's like imagine like I don't for any of the contacts wearers in the room or the world. Sometimes when you have contacts and you look far away, you still can't see shit.
- [43:17]
Nick
It.
- [43:18]
Co-host 5
They get cloudy and I don't know what you would do with the teleprompter part.
- [43:22]
Co-host 2
It does go fast. Also, shout out to Bad Bunny for being the first artist to win album of the year with a primarily Spanish language album.
- [43:29]
Co-host 4
Oh my God. His like moment before when he got called up, I was like, saw the.
- [43:34]
Natalie
Harry Styles, of course, like saying that he's the winner. Just like too iconic.
- [43:39]
Co-host 4
But you know, like he was just like this was so surreal for him that he was just like that. No.
- [43:43]
Co-host 3
Yeah.
- [43:44]
Co-host 2
I love watching during any award show just like you when you can feel how emotional they are about just like how surreal it is for them to be there and to be in that moment.
- [43:54]
Natalie
And it's just like because I'm always under the impression that I'm like, they know it's them, right? Like they give them a heads up like I, you know, like some like they know that they're nominated for a Grammy but then I'm like, but the winner, like I gotta know it's them. And then it's like to see Bad Bunny find out in that moment, it was like, oh, wait, no, maybe they don't know.
- [44:10]
Co-host 2
Yeah, I don't think they do.
- [44:12]
Co-host 5
I don't think they. I mean think about like Beyonce last year. Like when Adele went up and was like, Beyonce should have won this. Like I feel like are funny out in real time. But Bad Bunny had an incredible speech. I loved it.
- [44:22]
Co-host 3
I love him.
- [44:22]
Co-host 5
I love the album.
- [44:25]
Co-host 2
Olivia Dean one Best new artist.
- [44:27]
Co-host 3
Warren had tech issues. I don't know if you saw that.
- [44:29]
Co-host 2
Well, his in ears were messed up so it was like the wrong time. So he just, he was singing off time and then he just took his in ear out and recovered.
- [44:37]
Co-host 4
He said he could hear the echo like that's what his was going on in his. In here. He was hearing like an echo like three times.
- [44:42]
Co-host 2
Yeah. Those. In years. I mean, mean, that's. That's tough.
- [44:46]
Co-host 4
Yeah.
- [44:46]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Yeah.
- [44:46]
Co-host 5
Well, you know who crushed Tyler? The creator. Incredible performance from him. Incredible performance from Lady Gaga. Incredible performance from the diva herself, Addison Rae.
- [44:57]
Co-host 4
And I just want to highlight Olivia Dean again because I feel like. I don't know how long she's been at this, but it feels like she's had 10 hits in this last six months and deserves every single, like accolade.
- [45:06]
Co-host 3
That she has influenced a culture of kitten heels and like fashion from. I don't. What era is she, like, inspired by?
- [45:12]
Co-host 4
She's bossa nova.
- [45:13]
Natalie
She's like French.
- [45:14]
Co-host 4
Like, she's just like. There's something that's so classy and just timeless about her music.
- [45:17]
Co-host 5
Welcome back, Nora Jones.
- [45:18]
Co-host 4
Thank you. I was a fan.
- [45:24]
Co-host 5
Me too.
- [45:26]
Natalie
Well, we also have all of the press tours for Weathering Heights and Margot Robbie.
- [45:31]
Co-host 5
I think I'm going to.
- [45:32]
Nick
I don't know how actors do it.
- [45:35]
Co-host 4
I don't know how actors, partners do it. Cuz I'm like, that's what I meant.
- [45:38]
Natalie
They're all falling in love.
- [45:40]
Co-host 4
Did you see that hot ass magazine magazine spread that they did where it's like him between each other's eyes?
- [45:45]
Nick
The way she talks about him as.
- [45:46]
Co-host 5
If she was just like, I think more people should lean in.
- [45:49]
Natalie
When she's like, it was raining and he covered my face from like the set rain or whatever. She's like, I said, that was the most romantic thing anyone has ever done for me. And I'm like, your poor husband is sitting at home being like, hey, just watching.
- [46:02]
Nick
Our Kind Star is Born with Bradley Cooper and Lady Gaga.
- [46:07]
Co-host 4
And there was.
- [46:07]
Nick
What was the show with Jessica Chastain?
- [46:10]
Natalie
Oh.
- [46:14]
Co-host 5
No, it was scenes from Scenes from a Marriage. It was a re. It was a TV show remake of the Ingmar.
- [46:18]
Co-host 4
Anyone but you.
- [46:19]
Nick
Whitney Sweeney and Whitney Sweeney.
- [46:22]
Co-host 4
Glenn Powell and Sydney Sweeney.
- [46:23]
Nick
Sydney Sweeney and Glen Powell.
- [46:25]
Co-host 5
Whitney Sweeney and Glenn Glow.
- [46:26]
Nick
Yeah, those guys. Press tours. You were just like, God, they're in love. There was like, oh, my God. And like you. Then you're like, oh, oh, oh, they're married with someone else. Like the caressing and the speaking. You really have to, I don't know, have a great therapist and really be secure in your relationship. To have these people do the press that they do with each other and really just talk about their obsession and their connection. It's just.
- [46:55]
Natalie
They're just codependent on Each other. They got each other the rings. That was like forever and always or whatever.
- [47:02]
Co-host 4
Like, that's what I wonder. Like, I'm like, if like Olivia Jade or like Margot Robbie's husband is like, it's my hot. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm just like. Because you have to be used to this by now, right? I'm like, Margot Robbie is one of the hottest people forever that I'm just like, everybody wants to see her with whoever she's co starring with or wants to see her, like with anybody.
- [47:20]
Co-host 2
Yeah. No, the amount of therapy I would need. If Dani was co starring with Margot Robbie, I would.
- [47:26]
Natalie
And her, I feel like her husband.
- [47:28]
Co-host 4
And we're secure.
- [47:29]
Co-host 3
Right.
- [47:31]
Natalie
The only clip I've seen of Margo talking about her husband and May even on this press tour. But she was like, yeah, you know, he was an extra in Harry Potter.
- [47:42]
Co-host 4
Well, her husband is also.
- [47:43]
Co-host 5
He's like the one of the kids.
- [47:45]
Natalie
That got pushed out of the way in the third Harry Potter.
- [47:48]
Co-host 2
You know what?
- [47:49]
Co-host 4
That would be enough for me too. That would be enough for me too.
- [47:51]
Co-host 5
Margot Robbie's husband is like the executive producer. Like they co run a production company together.
- [47:59]
Co-host 4
Yeah.
- [47:59]
Natalie
And that Sydney Sweeney and her fiance, remember he was like, also produced. Ex fiance. Sorry. Yeah, ex fiance. Brau. But they were like also working together. So there's so many. Like, do they know? Is this part of the process? Are they in on it?
- [48:13]
Nick
It's gotta be part.
- [48:15]
Co-host 5
Lean in.
- [48:16]
Nick
Yes.
- [48:17]
Co-host 5
Why not lean in?
- [48:17]
Nick
Part of the marketing.
- [48:18]
Co-host 5
You do a chemistry read with someone for a reason. I think. I think go for it.
- [48:23]
Co-host 4
Anyone. But you showed that it's like what happens if the partner's not in on it. Yeah.
- [48:28]
Co-host 2
Yeah.
- [48:28]
Co-host 4
Well, it's.
- [48:29]
Co-host 2
I mean, Singing in the Rain kind of takes you behind the scenes there where it's like they were, you know, had a fake relationship.
- [48:35]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Yeah.
- [48:36]
Co-host 5
Sorry.
- [48:36]
Co-host 4
I love it. No, you're completely right. Like Mar. No. Yeah.
- [48:40]
Co-host 5
Let's talk about Singing in the Rain.
- [48:42]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
I love it.
- [48:44]
Co-host 5
Great film.
- [48:46]
Co-host 3
Anyway, there were a ton of reality TV stars at the Weathering Heights, which is very fascinating.
- [48:50]
Co-host 5
Ariana Maddox.
- [48:51]
Natalie
Oh, yes.
- [48:51]
Co-host 3
Yeah. She had a ring. People are assuming.
- [48:53]
Natalie
This is the most frustrating, I think coverage of women on red carpets. It's like they're wearing. Wearing an outfit. They are in couture, they are wearing fashion, they have jewelry, they have accessories. And like, there's only so many fingers that a ring looks good on. And like the pointer finger is always like, just not gonna be.
- [49:15]
Co-host 4
It's not.
- [49:16]
Co-host 2
It's like it's my smallest and daintiest finger.
- [49:18]
Natalie
Exactly. And so like the fact that some people. And maybe she is secretly engaged and we don't know. And like, you know, more power too.
- [49:26]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Yeah.
- [49:26]
Co-host 4
Did it.
- [49:27]
Natalie
And so sledding. But like, sometimes I think it's just women wearing jewelry and everyone's like, oh.
- [49:32]
Co-host 4
My God, we got dressed up for an event. There's only so many rings that things sizes that fit on what finger. And it's just kind of like, just let it be. I think speculating on marriage and whether or not someone's having a baby is like the two most disrespectful things that you could do after a woman just spent who knows how many hours in hair and makeup and getting dressed for you to do all of that and be like, meh, I think she might have a baby bump. Like she's engaged. Like, are you kidding me?
- [49:53]
Natalie
Yeah.
- [49:54]
Co-host 3
But there's no way she didn't have that conversation with the person styling her.
- [49:57]
Nick
Right.
- [49:58]
Co-host 3
Like, she had to know that wearing a ring there would smart.
- [50:00]
Nick
Why should she have to?
- [50:02]
Natalie
Wasn't it like a.
- [50:03]
Co-host 2
It.
- [50:03]
Natalie
It was like a gemstone ring. It wasn't like, it was like this big engagement ring. Diamond. It was like.
- [50:11]
Co-host 4
But I'm saying it's it. It tends to be sometimes even like a nice, like maybe super expensive. But like it doesn't even have to be like a single like engagement ring looking thing for it to be speculation that you're engaged.
- [50:20]
Co-host 5
I don't know. I mean, I have two. I have rings on both my ring fingers. So I'd like to announce that I'm married to the moment.
- [50:26]
Co-host 4
I love you.
- [50:30]
Co-host 3
Mormon wives. There's some tea popping off. I think they're filming. Right.
- [50:33]
Nick
But Latia, I think they're always filming.
- [50:35]
Co-host 2
Yes.
- [50:36]
Co-host 3
They're all.
- [50:36]
Co-host 4
Cameras are never down.
- [50:37]
Natalie
Even in their house.
- [50:38]
Co-host 3
There's a camera. Whether it's a TikTok phone or an.
- [50:40]
Co-host 5
Actual camera, they're always working.
- [50:42]
Co-host 3
Leanne Taylor's mom is coming for Latia.
- [50:45]
Nick
And what from Bachelor fame grant runner up.
- [50:51]
Co-host 3
Her mom said she's not a mom or a wife.
- [50:54]
Co-host 4
Which. Did she lie?
- [50:55]
Natalie
Which that was in response to someone saying that she. She was going to be on this next season.
- [51:00]
Co-host 3
Yes.
- [51:00]
Co-host 4
As like a cast member.
- [51:01]
Co-host 3
Well, and she's also filming. Yeah, we've. Well, I don't know if we know she's a cast member. We've seen her filming scenes.
- [51:06]
Co-host 4
Yeah.
- [51:06]
Nick
There's could be a huge difference between like someone who is, you know, to use the, you know, friend of quite Literally. And it would make sense that Latia would show up. Part of the Hulu family. Bachelor Nation. They love a crossover. They love. They love that.
- [51:21]
Natalie
So I think she is good friends with Laila and Miranda, you know, like, a few of the girls.
- [51:25]
Nick
But I think there's a huge difference between that and, like, being literally a part of the cast, you know? You know, I. Right now, I don't think she's in the running to, like, be, you know, in the intro packages or getting her hair wet.
- [51:37]
Natalie
But that is interesting that Taylor's mom is, like, entering the chat. You know, it's like, is she one of them, Liam?
- [51:45]
Co-host 3
Like, one of the cats?
- [51:47]
Natalie
I mean, it's like, what Leanne. Like, how do you feel about Latif? You know, it's like, what's going on there?
- [51:52]
Co-host 3
Yeah.
- [51:52]
Co-host 2
Well, I'll never forget when. When Dakota had his thing with Leanne's friend, it was like, Leanne took it really hard, and Taylor was her friend.
- [52:01]
Co-host 3
Friend.
- [52:02]
Co-host 2
What?
- [52:02]
Co-host 4
It was. No, I know, but I was like, I would take that hard, too.
- [52:06]
Co-host 2
No, but I'm saying, like, it was whatever. It was like, Taylor was, like, took it hard for a second, and then she was fine. But Leanne was, like, devastated because it was her friend.
- [52:15]
Co-host 4
She lost her friend.
- [52:16]
Natalie
I guess Taylor was her boyfriend.
- [52:18]
Co-host 4
Baby daddy.
- [52:19]
Co-host 3
Yes, Miranda did defend Latia, and she had a comment where she said, as someone who knows Latia very well, there is so much more to her than, y' all know, legit. One of the best people I know. And whether she makes appearances or not, the show is going to evolve because our lives evolve. I'll welcome in parentheses most of whoever joins the ride, so long as they are a real part of our real lives.
- [52:39]
Nick
Yeah. So she'll be making. She'll be part of it. She'll show up just like some other people show up.
- [52:45]
Co-host 3
I mean, she also said we don't only have relationships with people who are wives and moms. Peace up.
- [52:50]
Nick
Also. Yeah. I mean, I think as these. The main characters, you know, they're all getting these opportunities. You got Taylor, she's the Bachelorette. Whitney's on Broadway, Layla, Jesse, all of them, Mikayla, Macy, they're all, like, getting opportunities. They're becoming stars. It's gonna be harder and harder to keep these women together as, like, this friend group. And if the show evolves, they may have to evolve into showing these women's lives and the friends that they have and then how they occasionally intersect.
- [53:20]
Natalie
Because it is crazy how, like, season one, it was just like, all of These moms on TikTok Tock, living in Utah, getting together to film tick tocks. And that, like, that was their. That was them hanging out. And now all of these women are, you know, like, Jesse was just at the Grammys last night. You know, like, all of these women are out and doing things and busy, and so it's like, yeah, they can't really make it seem like they're all just hanging out doing tick tocks anymore. Like, they're. They're booked and they're busy.
- [53:48]
Co-host 4
And as far as I know, because she. Big fan. Love Miranda, but I think that Miranda's friends was originally friends with Latia, and she's also friends with the other girl, Shania, the one that. And Kate Chase's ex. But I'm like. I feel like that's also to, like, help enrich Miranda's story, because I think even to your point, she wasn't really in the last season. But I'm also like, I don't know, maybe we shouldn't let you bring unfriends, because I feel like there's a lot of drama that's just not gonna be able to be fully shown.
- [54:17]
Co-host 3
I think I appreciate it. I think we need to lean off of the relationship divorce drama of it all. Like, I feel like you can bring in people that are able to be messy without tearing apart a family. You know what I mean? Like, I think it's a good balance.
- [54:28]
Co-host 4
According to Taylor Frankie Paul, she commented about Shania, the one that supposedly hooked up with Dakota and was trying to break out with her during Coachella. Shania gave it her best shot and still horribly failed with a clown emoji. So.
- [54:40]
Co-host 3
So maybe she's in one scene, you.
- [54:42]
Co-host 4
Know what I mean? Like, that's where I'm like, okay, so am I gonna see anything about this story that I was following so avidly?
- [54:47]
Nick
It is crazy to think about that these women now have to face the possibility of friends or more often, acquaintances doing things like sleeping with their ex husbands or, you know, mother's. Whatever.
- [55:03]
Co-host 4
The one best friend. Yeah.
- [55:04]
Nick
Simply to get a shot at being on TV.
- [55:07]
Co-host 4
That.
- [55:07]
Nick
And no doubt that happens 100%.
- [55:10]
Co-host 4
That's what I said. Where I was like, I kind of feel like it's a. The thing I liked about Secret Lives and Mormon Wives, what I do like is that this is a real group of friends, and it's like, they show up for each other. Other, where I don't want to see a bunch of random people that want to get on television that are willing to Cut these women just to have a storyline which may end up on the cutting room floor anyways because we're about two years behind when it comes to the seasons coming out.
- [55:31]
Natalie
Yeah, that is true.
- [55:32]
Co-host 4
You know what I mean? Like, Shania, nobody's talking about her, but she was everywhere on my for you page for a minute there. So, you know, I'm interested.
- [55:39]
Co-host 5
Well, to wrap it up, next Gen LA is filming.
- [55:43]
Natalie
Who has been. Has anyone been confirmed on both Child? I believe they've been confirmed.
- [55:48]
Co-host 3
Or is this all Sophia Mansky, Nick Dubro and Mason Grammer have been seen filming with cameras. And I believe someone also from Love Island. I didn't recognize the name, but is also in one of the shots filming something.
- [56:01]
Co-host 4
Okay, hot take. But I am getting kind of tired of this where it's just like, I feel like I'm introduced to somebody that I. Sorry, don't care about on, like, a TV show and a reality TV show, and then they're showing up on another show and it's just like. I don't know, the inauthenticity of it just drives me nuts.
- [56:15]
Nick
What do you mean?
- [56:16]
Co-host 4
Like, for example. Just like. For example, seeing, like, Chris from Perfect Match being on Vanderpump Rules or like, there was somebody else I just watched.
- [56:23]
Co-host 3
You're saying network hopping.
- [56:25]
Co-host 4
Yeah, Like, I just, like, watched another show recently or even like Marciano now on Secret Lives and Mormon Rhymes from Vanderpumpfelt. Like, I'm just like this. Like, I saw you two years ago on a reality tv.
- [56:34]
Natalie
Oh, Yemen.
- [56:35]
Co-host 4
I'm watching Love Island All Stars right now. And Yemen is from last season of Temptation island is one of the Love Island USA guys that, like, they.
- [56:45]
Nick
Yeah, but I mean, you know, one. There's only so many people who are willing to do some of the things that are required on reality tv. And then for all your misses, you do have some wins. Rob True on Traitors was a. I believe.
- [57:01]
Co-host 4
Yeah, but like, Traders is a show that's, like, already based off of bringing other people from, like, different networks. So it's like, I'm prepared for that.
- [57:07]
Nick
Like, you're. You know, it's just like.
- [57:09]
Co-host 4
Like, I don't believe that, like, Chris has been a struggling waiter when he was also going on Perfect Match. Yeah, that's.
- [57:13]
Co-host 2
That's true.
- [57:14]
Natalie
But when it's the other way around, like, him going on.
- [57:16]
Nick
Listen, like, sometimes, yeah, you get your Chrises and you people aren't excited about it. They're not.
- [57:22]
Co-host 4
It's just a hot take. I don't think it's a general.
- [57:24]
Nick
Have your robs where it was like he was. He was a. In the. What was. He was a.
- [57:29]
Co-host 4
He was Love island, but he was Casa More. And then he was on the other.
- [57:31]
Nick
He was Casa some more and then he came back.
- [57:32]
Co-host 4
But that's the same show, same network.
- [57:34]
Nick
But a lot of people don't even like that.
- [57:35]
Co-host 4
And even traders still same network. So I'm like, it's not that crazy to me.
- [57:39]
Nick
You just don't. You don't want them going different networks.
- [57:41]
Co-host 4
I don't like the idea of you doing the energy.
- [57:44]
Nick
You're a. I don't. You're a streamer loyalist.
- [57:46]
Co-host 4
I don't want you. No, I don't want you telling me that this man is struggling as a waiter, but then has already had opportunities to try to, like, win money or to do go on these shows. And then it's like, I'm a struggling actor. I just don't buy it.
- [57:58]
Nick
This guy was on Perfect Match, which is not exactly like, one of the more premier shows specifically for men. If they're looking to make money from reality tv. Being a mid tier character on Perfect Match isn't exactly gonna make it rain. So I believe very much that he could be struggling second, you know, and men in the reality TV space often make way less money.
- [58:23]
Co-host 4
Well, he's got another thriving business as well on OnlyFans. That's why I'm like, it doesn't work for me.
- [58:29]
Nick
It's not hard to believe that he's.
- [58:30]
Co-host 4
Struggling, but it's not. It's not hard for me to believe that he can't find other ways to make money knowing that he is. So I'm just like, you're not. It's just this whole, like, I don't.
- [58:36]
Nick
Your belief in watching Vanderpump is to believe that the only way they can be on Vanderpump is because they need the.
- [58:42]
Co-host 4
Because I feel like they're actually employed. They're not employed there for. For. In hopes of being on a TV show.
- [58:46]
Natalie
Once the OG cast, like, got too famous, they're like, okay, we got to switch gears because no one's.
- [58:50]
Co-host 4
And now we're following our lives at home and, like, our events and our book launches and all of our other things that we're doing to that point.
- [58:56]
Co-host 3
Angelica also did watch what Happens live, and she was like, none of us are famous. Like, we didn't come here for the fame, but it's also like, some of you guys kind of did come here for the fame.
- [59:04]
Co-host 4
And Angelica, how many Followers does she have?
- [59:05]
Co-host 3
And then I found out she has, like one hundred and something thousand dollars, so. But point across.
- [59:09]
Co-host 4
Yeah. Super authentic.
- [59:11]
Co-host 5
Well, all right, Justin, you want to rapid fire some Ultimate Girls trip headlines, please.
- [59:15]
Co-host 3
There's a lot still going on.
- [59:16]
Co-host 5
Amazing.
- [59:17]
Co-host 3
Alexia Nippola and Marisol were spotted filming in Miami. Also, Melissa and Joe Gorga. Alex McCord flew from Australia to New York to film the Roni portion.
- [59:27]
Co-host 5
Let's go.
- [59:29]
Co-host 3
Jennifer Aiden and Vicki Gumbelson both dress up as Taylor Swift at the final party at Bluestone Manor, which is direct gorge Halloween. Gertie Abrera and Julia were not seen at Miami as part of the cast. So people think that they're not part of the next season cast.
- [59:46]
Co-host 5
They're replacing them with the Haitian mortician.
- [59:49]
Co-host 3
Exactly. And then finally, this is an ultimate road trip. But original Roni cast has allegedly signed a contract with E. To shoot their own show.
- [59:58]
Nick
I don't understand this headline because the headline was like rival network cast effects from Bravo.
- [60:03]
Co-host 3
Yeah, that's what.
- [60:03]
Nick
But E. Is owned by. By NBC and it's all under the NBC Peacock family. It will still be streaming on Peacock if assuming they put it on the.
- [60:13]
Natalie
Streamer, I imagine Andy will still be doing reunions.
- [60:17]
Co-host 3
Well, I think this is Bethenny Frankel.
- [60:19]
Nick
That's a good question.
- [60:20]
Co-host 3
Also brought this back up, but they were Roni Legacy, which was last season of Ultimate Girls Trip was supposed to be its own show. Or that was the concept. And then allegedly because of money, they made it a one season.
- [60:31]
Nick
There's clearly some separation with Bravo. And, you know, I don't know how that all works, but it's definitely like. It's not like they went to Fox or Netflix.
- [60:39]
Co-host 3
No.
- [60:39]
Co-host 4
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [60:40]
Nick
You know, that have been fascinating if they, like, signed with Netflix, you know, with the members only club show, you know, very Housewives coded.
- [60:50]
Co-host 3
Most of them are in.
- [60:51]
Nick
When I first saw it, I was like, oh, I wonder if Netflix signed them, because that would spark waves.
- [60:56]
Co-host 3
Yeah.
- [60:56]
Nick
Alas, it's just.
- [60:57]
Co-host 5
Just exclamation point.
- [60:59]
Nick
E. Exclamation point. Well, all right. Well, let's get into some traitors. Up next, we have Sandra from season two, also from Survivor Lore, two time winner of Survivor, time winner, and a very successful faithful in the castle during her time. She is with us to help break down all the shenanigans of this most recent episode of Traitors, which was a. Another good one. We also have Jam Jam coming up after Sandra to talk about his unceremonious exit. That is all coming up next well.
- [61:35]
Natalie
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- [62:54]
Host 1
This episode is sponsored by Better Help. You know, listen, sometimes it can feel like everyone else has got it together. Maybe you're looking for a relationship and.
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Nick
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Host 1
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Nick
But listen, like, things aren't always as they seem.
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Host 1
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Nick
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Host 1
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Nick
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Host 1
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- [64:39]
Nick
L l Sandra, welcome to the show.
- [64:42]
Co-host 3
Show.
- [64:43]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Thank you for having me.
- [64:44]
Nick
Super excited to have you. Someone obviously with your pedigree, two time Survivor winner. Did I get that right?
- [64:50]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
You got that right.
- [64:53]
Nick
Make sure to make sure we got the accolades correct. Also, you were in season two of Traders and had a very successful run on that as well.
- [65:02]
Co-host 2
Currently on the Fox show. Extracted, right?
- [65:04]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Correct. Episode two will be on tonight at 8pm on Fox period.
- [65:09]
Nick
Check that out. So if you're listening to this now, it's on Hulu now. Well, last episode of Traders was another good one and filled with a lot of a little bit of controversy. We now have some of the traders arguing online. Recently released from the Castle was Jam Jam and Lisa Renner. Curious, Sandra, how do you overall, what, what are you appreciating about this season and then the overall gameplay and I'd love to get your read on, on I guess really Rob's approach to turning on the other two traders.
- [65:41]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
I think Rob's doing a great job. I wish somehow when he started thinking he was going to get rid of Lisa that he would have talked to Candace about it. I think it would have been easier to get her on board or at least let her know, hey, if I hear her name again come up or if I feel like a Lot of people are going to vote for her. I'm going to have to go that way as well. Maybe then they wouldn't have the issues that they're going to have now.
- [66:04]
Nick
You think Rob should have gone to Candace and given her a heads up. Up. I just assume that Rob didn't do that because he's heard so much about, like, the housewives bond and. And their closeness. And I never go against a housewife. I'm just not shocked to assume that he just thought that wasn't even a possibility. But you, you still would have tried to figure out a way to do that.
- [66:26]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Absolutely. Because if you think back to after that monumental challenge, they went to go grab food and Candace told Lisa, johnny's coming for you. Hold hard. So she's being talked about again. It started with Monae, then it was Ron, then it was. Several people have been talking about her. So it's not like her name isn't out there. Colton said her name. So if he would have just said, like, listen, I'm. I'm trying to change a couple of things, but if your name keeps coming up and the majority of the people it sounds like are coming for you, especially after Jam Jam said your name about the king kiss when he got murdered, there's nothing I could do. That to me is a heads up, like, you already know where my head's at. If they're going to talk about you at the roundtable, I'm writing your name down.
- [67:11]
Natalie
It does seem like Rob is. I mean, he's like, leading the charge against Lisa. You know, he's like when there's two different stories, you know, it's either I don't know or they really definitely seem like yeah.
- [67:23]
Co-host 2
Was swaying because it was going to go Natalie. And then he swayed it. Would you have done anything differently if you were in Lisa's shoes at the round table?
- [67:30]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
It's so hard to convince people that you're not a traitor at any roundtable. Like, how do you really prove you're not a traitor? All you can do is argue your way out of it. I mean, she could have kept going hard on Natalie because that's where people were or even went back to Colton. But the damage was done once Jam Jam started saying lisa kissed me and then she said she didn't. Yeah, again, that's the same thing. Rob said the same story but, you know, the different outcomes. Somebody's lying. Jan Jam says she kissed him. She said, I didn't kiss them. Morrow says she kissed them. You know, Dorinda says She didn't kiss him. So you know who's telling the truth.
- [68:10]
Co-host 2
Do you almost feel like she should have just been like, yeah, I kissed him. So what?
- [68:13]
Natalie
I kissed everybody? Yeah.
- [68:14]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [68:15]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
And that's easy. You know, it's kind of easy to explain because so much is happening at that black banquet that. How do you remember what all you did and didn't do?
- [68:25]
Co-host 2
Yeah.
- [68:26]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Say, like, man, I. I can't even tell you what I had on my plate to eat.
- [68:31]
Natalie
Yeah, I've been so. I've been so on edge. I've been. I've been looking at everybody else. I don't even remember. Yeah, that's true.
- [68:36]
Host 1
I feel like if the traders being.
- [68:38]
Natalie
Like, no, I didn't. I know I didn't.
- [68:39]
Nick
I feel like if the traders were working better together, I feel like Rob should have been the one who. To wear the jewelry. He could have easily pulled it off.
- [68:48]
Natalie
It is shocking. It does feel like the one with the most heat wore the thing.
- [68:54]
Co-host 4
But she got that first.
- [68:54]
Co-host 2
But that's not even what. What she got, like, in trouble for. Like, nobody said anything about the brooch. It was all about the kiss that she like.
- [69:03]
Nick
Still. I just think it would have been really easy for Rob if he was wearing that jewelry and it was a ballroom night anyways to, like, people would have noticed. A lot of people had jewelry on. Like, Colton had pearls on or whatever. I feel like Lisa could have been start. She. I. I've. If I were her, I would have started touching. Touching other people's jewelry.
- [69:21]
Natalie
No, you just touch mine. You just walk in with the brooch unclasped and then, like, jiggle where it falls to the ground and hope whoever is there to pick it up and hand it to you.
- [69:32]
Co-host 2
That is kind of what she did. She was like, oh, it's poking me.
- [69:35]
Co-host 4
Like.
- [69:35]
Nick
Yeah, but that creates a scene.
- [69:36]
Co-host 2
I mean, she got away with it.
- [69:38]
Natalie
She did get away with it.
- [69:38]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Well, you don't want the wrong person to touch it, because, for instance, if someone's potentially going to get banished, you don't want that person to be the one. You want someone that's really. I mean, she picked jam. Jam, which was kind of messed up. It set Natalie up, as in, we know there's a traitor in the turret. You're the last gamer left, so it has to be you. Lisa had to wear the brooch because she already had heat on her. There's no way Rob, being a man's man, was going to wear that.
- [70:05]
Natalie
Yeah, with the overalls.
- [70:06]
Co-host 2
That brooch on his overalls Candace didn't.
- [70:09]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Want to get any heat on her because no one has said her name, so it had to be Lisa.
- [70:14]
Nick
So Rob is obviously pretty upset that Candace wrote his name down. I almost was thinking maybe that was pretty smart by Candace to protect herself because it kind of seemed like Rob had fully decided to turn on both of the traders. And since Candace was the one pretty adamantly defending Lisa, he could then be like, well, who's the one defending, yeah, Lisa? I certainly wasn't. Candace was. But now that Candace wrote Rob's name down down, it's a little riskier for Rob, I feel like, to go after Candace because her writing that his name down almost connects the dots of her being angry at Rob as retaliation. Or am I thinking too much?
- [70:54]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
In my opinion, you're thinking too much. Simply because Candace is the kind of person where whatever name she writes down at the roundtable, she sticks to it. Roundtable after roundtable after roundtable. So it's not gonna be sus for anyone to see her continue to. To write down Rob's name simply because she did that with Ron. It was like, whoever she. Whoever's name was on her slate, that's what she's going to continue with. So if she continues chasing Rob regardless, no one, I think, is going to think twice about it. Like, it's not going to be a big deal. He doesn't like it because his name is out there, and you never want that. But I don't think it's such a big deal.
- [71:33]
Natalie
Why do you feel like she didn't just stick with Natalie and be like, like, you know, yeah, sorry, Natalie. I still just, like, think it's you.
- [71:41]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Well, she was already mad when he wrote down Lisa's name last week. She threw food at him in the kitchen. She was like, you messed this all up. So she's not happy. They did have a good thing. But since how do you trust someone that throws your name out there? We saw this last season with Carolyn and Danielle. Once the damage is done, how do you forgive that? You know, they're going to constantly continue until one of us is gone. And it's going to be you or it's going to be me.
- [72:09]
Nick
Yeah, it's just kind of a. It's that initial sign of, like, listen, I'll be loyal until I can't, until it doesn't serve me right. And then once your name's thrown out there, you really. It. It's just a reminder that, like, no one's on anyone's side but their own.
- [72:23]
Co-host 4
Yeah.
- [72:24]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
And going back to Lisa, I remember Rob told her in the turret, your name is being said. So he gave her a heads up. And then she heard it for herself. Candace heard it for herself. So it shouldn't be like anything out of this world that he wrote her name down. He should have just gave them a head heads up.
- [72:39]
Co-host 2
You probably can't answer this, but is there anything stopping you from kind of like dropping something that Lisa could have, like, shifted it onto Rob in some.
- [72:48]
Natalie
Like, on her way out.
- [72:49]
Co-host 5
Yeah.
- [72:50]
Co-host 2
Or on her way out or even at the round table, where she could be like, just look out. Like there's still a snake among you or something like that. Or just try to. To be like, you know what, Rob? Now that you're coming at me, like, you're actually pretty suspicious yourself.
- [73:03]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
I mean, she could have done a lot of things. I don't know the rules of the traders because they're given additional rules once they're picked that we don't see. I don't even know how many pages it is. You're right. Like, if you take me out and you're a traitor and you really stabbed me in the back and I didn't even see it coming, then somehow on my way out, I'm gonna definitely try to give some kind of clue. But you have to be careful not to go against the rules.
- [73:27]
Natalie
And I like and be like, and Rob, you did look just as good in that cloak as you do in these overalls, I must say.
- [73:35]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Or I'm a snake, but I'm not the biggest snake.
- [73:38]
Natalie
Yes, yes.
- [73:39]
Nick
But they. To your point, Sandra, they have some rules. I was thinking about watching it because clearly, like, you know, Jam. Jam was like, it's Lisa. It's Lisa. There was. And they aired it. So I'm assuming he didn't go against any rules. But that's vastly different than a traitor who got turned on. For Lisa to go to know who the traitors are and to you, you literally would ruin the entire game and the show. So I imagine there's a lot of rules that they have to follow.
- [74:07]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
I remember the minute Phaedra gave her back to Kate, gave her back to Phaedra at the Round Table, and they started going against each other. And she was like, you're gonna learn today. I was like, you know, like, you get these hints, like, how is it that you're expecting and you know for certain she's gonna say I'm a traitor. You know, only a traitor would know that. But. But I think Rob's name is Already out there. Candace, too, because they're saying what if it's a.
- [74:32]
Jam Jam
A.
- [74:32]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
A turret full of housewives? Like they're. They're both gunning for each other. We gotta see who's victorious. I think Rob's gonna come out the of on top. There's way too many, many people trusting him with the exception of Johnny.
- [74:44]
Natalie
What did you think of the whole dagger thing? Did you also think it was Natalie who lied or.
- [74:51]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Oh, yeah, because when I look back on it, I watched it two times. You can tell when the guys are looking at Rob that they're. They're shaking their head. They're not talking, but they're shaking their head and they're moving their eyes kind of confirming, I don't have it. I don't have it. I don't have it. And then he looks to Natalie and there's Natalie standing there like, hoping she doesn't it away yet. She's not saying, like, shaking her head, you know. So in essence, I feel like they gave it to him. Colton gave him a reminder. I don't have it. Mark did the same thing. Stephen, too.
- [75:23]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [75:23]
Nick
It's really become a good old boys club.
- [75:26]
Natalie
Yeah. I saw an interesting video. I think it was one that actually Rob commented on and him and Candace kind of went back and forth on, but it was this girl kind of breaking down like on we saw on love island with Rob that he. He very much chose to be like a guy's guy. And he was, you know, had several chances to stick up for the women or just, you know, be on the women's side. But he just, like always was there for his bros. And obviously now we're seeing he's got this friendship with Colton and they're kind of like he's doing it again. Like he could be, you know, in this group with these two women, but he's a guy's guy and he's got to have his bros back. And he commented saying, this is actually ridiculous. Ridiculous. Candace said, is it? He said, it's a game, Candace. And she ended it with grow up, Robbie. Bobby. Gaslighting ages you.
- [76:14]
Nick
I'm curious, Sandra, what you think about this as someone who is a gamer, right. You survivor. Over the past couple weeks, it seems like the audience has gotten a little more toxic. Even peacock. You know, PR issued a statement about, you know, online bullying and things like that. But are you just kind of used to fans watching it and forgetting it's a game and. And, and taking things personally? But, like, it. It does seem a little. I I can't help but wonder if, like, Candace being a housewife, she's just like, this is how we roll, and this is how we engage each other online and we talk our shit and it's a reality TV show, but, like, we. We keep the momentum going. And Rob's just like, I thought I'm playing a literal game. And why is Candace coming at me online in the way that she is? I can see why there's a. Could be a lot of confusion. But I'm curious from your standpoint, especially Sandra, someone who is a legit gamer who's been involved in shows like these where you have to, quote, unquote, stab someone in the back. How. What?
- [77:11]
Host 1
Like, what do you expect?
- [77:12]
Nick
Or how do you think audiences should respond? And how does someone like you deal with an audience reaction that feels a little intense?
- [77:20]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Well, a lot of times with the audience, like, they're. They're seeing it from home. We were there, like, let's say, for instance, in the castle. I'm not going to hear every conversation and see everything that happened. That's why you rely so much on other people to let you know what they heard and what they said. And then the audience, for example, with me, I said in one of the episodes, like, it doesn't matter. A lot of the faithfuls will have to go home before we even probably catch a traitor. But then the fans at home are saying, like, no, your. Your job there is simply to find the traitor. Well, I'm trying to survive this game as well and get to the end, but when it comes to the fans, they're really packed, passionate. And also, yes, there was a lot of things said by Peacock about be careful and bullying, this, that, and the third. But they have to remember, too, that Colton, for the first two episodes or three episodes, is sitting there saying whatever he wants to say. And. And there's no repercussions. For example, he wrote, I can press people and see how uncomfortable they get, and if I miss my shot, I'll just shoot again. Okay, so why can't he just say and do whatever he wants, but the minute someone says something to him, now it's a whole big Twitter fight.
- [78:27]
Natalie
It's a good point.
- [78:29]
Nick
It's a great point. Is it? After the roundtable, I forget. It's like, he's like, I got a new name in my mouth. It's Stephen. And there's no why behind it. It's just vibes with Colton, it's just, you know, it's.
- [78:38]
Host 1
And yeah, it was.
- [78:39]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
But Stephen did Something. It was the way the. The way Stephen at the black banquet told Johnny to pick a card and then Christian's name, like, forcing her. Like, they're looking for any kind of suspicious activity.
- [78:52]
Co-host 2
Yeah, it was also the turkey and the fact that Lisa put all of her gold rocks into his.
- [78:58]
Nick
And the problem is, like, Colton kind of got Lisa. Right? So now he's operating with his newfound confidence and forgetting all the other misses.
- [79:06]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it would have been great if someone other than Lisa did it, but she did it and she got caught. But for us, it would have been crazy if someone else had actually did it, but they still blamed Lisa, and then she got busted, you know, so, yeah, you win some, you lose some. But that's the reason they're. They're watching Stephen because. Because although he's oblivious to a lot of things. For instance, when Ron was at the library, and Steven says, well, what are you thinking? And Ron says in front of Dorinda, well, I got two names. And he says, who? And he's like, you're talking to one. So, Stephen, you know those things. Open your eyes. Am I talking to a traitor? You don't know. There's so much chaos in that house, in that castle. You don't know what's up and what's down.
- [79:47]
Natalie
Or, like, Natalie saying, you know, which. This is the second time this has happened. Like, yeah, we killed them, we murdered them, we banished them. You know, like, it happens every season.
- [79:57]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Peppermint did it on ours. Yeah.
- [79:59]
Natalie
Yeah.
- [79:59]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
I wasn't even there to hear it, but when everyone jumped on the bag wagon, it was like, herd mentality. I don't know if it was done last season. I can't remember. But we know Portia did it. Episode one.
- [80:10]
Nick
Shocked that Portia had such an early.
- [80:12]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
You don't remember the things you're saying when you're in the hot seat and you're having to explain. For instance, with. Now, Natalie, she went back, she went to sleep, she tossed and turned all night because she knew she went hard for the antidote and didn't even need it. So now you're like, oh, snap. Now I gotta go back to breakfast and I gotta fix things. And then you still hear people two or three plates down talking about you. Yeah, she heard Mark talking about her. Mark. And was it Johnny?
- [80:43]
Co-host 2
I think so.
- [80:44]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Yeah. Yeah, I wrote it. I wrote it somewhere. They were talking about her, and she's listening, and you can tell Natalie's face, and her eyes are tearing up like, girl, you gotta fix this quick.
- [80:55]
Nick
I Think Rob's gonna go the distance? I don't know.
- [80:57]
Host 1
It's his.
- [80:57]
Nick
He seems like he has such a strong coalition of these guys and most of the people in this coalition other than Natalie and Natalie and Colton are pretty outspoken, but like Mark and Steven, pretty quiet. They seem. Rob's very popular and it's just like he's, he's dying. He's doing such a good job of like, it's weird. He's giving like the Peter Weber on. He was. Peter was on your season, Sandra.
- [81:22]
Co-host 5
Yeah.
- [81:23]
Nick
Peter had that very aggressive, faithful strategy where he was just, I am hunting for traitors. I am faithful. And it was like you, you. It was hard not to believe that he was a traitor.
- [81:33]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
And it worked in my favor, especially them shutting the door and saying, well, can you give us a minute? Like, why do we have to give five people a minute to chat about what? Traitor.
- [81:44]
Natalie
Traitor behavior.
- [81:46]
Nick
If they turn against Rob, I'm curious. He'll have to really screw up. And he's. He's playing a smart game.
- [81:51]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Oh, no, he's. He's real quiet. He, he watches his words. I don't think they're going to get him. I think he's going to go to the end and I haven't seen spoilers or anything like that. My. There's a handful of, of. Of faithfuls he can go to the end with and they will think that he's been playing a faithful game the whole way through.
- [82:08]
Co-host 4
Do you think it's the face or like the overalls? Because I'm like. At the same time, Dorinda called out Maura this last round table because she doesn't speak up until somebody is like, accused and then she's like. And then you, you back them up. But it's like Rob does the exact same thing. Rob doesn't accuse anybody from the front and then ends up doing the last soliloquy.
- [82:24]
Nick
And no one's like, I think it's a listen. He's a great looking guy. He's very quiet and he has no problem being quiet and he seems to be comfortable in that state. And we're learning more and more that he's. He's an intelligent, thoughtful guy. He's intelligent enough to know that people often don't see him as that and he's leaning into that and playing to it all.
- [82:44]
Natalie
It also seems like he takes time for, like, each person and, like, gives them like one on one attention so that they feel like, oh, they have a friendship and they're connected with them like I don't remember who was telling us, but that he was. He sat down and played chess with a lot of people. A lot of the time, him, like getting to know Ron, him and Colton, you know, I feel like he's just really.
- [83:07]
Nick
If you're someone who, when you walk into a room, doesn't work the room and you're kind of quiet and especially Rob, good looking guy. You people notice Rob when he walks into a room. And so they're going to notice a guy like Rob not talking to them. But when that individual on a one on one basis, as Natalie says, makes him feel seen, listens to them, they're like, oh, but he likes me.
- [83:27]
Co-host 2
Yeah.
- [83:28]
Nick
And I feel like with Rob, that hits home a little bit more. And I think he's very good at playing that game.
- [83:34]
Co-host 2
And the dagger move was good, too.
- [83:36]
Nick
Yeah, yeah. He's got that double dagger and he's got three weeks to use it. And so when he's in position. A pickle. Yeah. I don't see how he doesn't go the distance.
- [83:43]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Oh, no, he's got it. He's got it in the pocket. He does, Yeah.
- [83:47]
Co-host 2
I, I actually agree with you though, Nick. I think that Candace made a brilliant move by putting Rob's name down. And I think that he actually has to. It forces him to stick by her because if then she goes home, they're going to think back to that rogue vote and be like, Rob, maybe she was giving us a sign.
- [84:05]
Nick
I mean, I'm curious because I'm thinking if I'm Rob right now, Sandra, I'm immediately, immediately going after Candace. It's just like I'm gonna double down and be like, you know, why was Candace defending Lisa? I was, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Let's say that happens and they vote Candace out and she's like, I'm a traitor. To Leia's point, Sandra does that. Like, could that potentially put a target on Rob's back in a way he doesn't have a target now?
- [84:32]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Yes. Especially if she keeps writing down his name. But so he can simply just say, like, the housewives stick together. I would go to Kansas and I would say, listen, water under the bridge. Let's move forward. You knew her name was out there. You were trying to save her. There was no saving her. They were out for blood. Somebody had to go. Somebody had to be given up. She was already out there. But Candace can say, well, you know, housewives never write each other's names down. Whatever. That's that philosophy now. They're Going to have to work together. Because I would say, listen to. Listen. I'll. I won't say your name no more. You won't say mine. And let's, you know, let's win this thing together. But if she keeps on about it, then I would go after her, and then I'd take out Dorinda, too. I'd murder Dorinda. I'd have him. If I was Rob, I would push to murder Dorinda so that now Candace doesn't really have someone else. Like, she. You know, she's there with the housewives. I would take Dorindo from her, but.
- [85:31]
Co-host 2
Then that goes against his turret full of housewives thing that he's trying to plant.
- [85:35]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
No, because that can still. I mean, we still have her. Then we'd have to pick off between Natalie and Candace. It's easy to say, like, you know, it's got to be Natalie because all the other gamers are gone, and they were all faithful, and. Or maybe it's Candace and it was a turret full of housewives, which he already said, a turret full of house housewives.
- [85:56]
Nick
Well, Sandra, this has been a lot of fun. Breaking this all down with you is. It's great to get your insight on stuff like this with someone with. Especially with your pedigree. Remind the audience of where they can follow you. Enjoy everything that you're doing, Sandra.
- [86:11]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Well, I'm on Instagram. Sassy sdt. That's pretty much where I'm at. Like, nobody's really on Facebook anymore, right? I'm not on Twitter. If you guys are following me on Twitter, that's the wrong account because I'm not on Twitter. No, I think it's Instagram.
- [86:26]
Nick
Is everything all right, Sandra? Well, appreciate you taking the time and helping us break this all down. Please come back soon.
- [86:32]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
You guys take care.
- [86:33]
Co-host 3
All right.
- [86:34]
Nick
Take care, Sandra.
- [86:35]
Co-host 3
I was so heated when I watched that last episode. I called Leia immediately, and I was like, I. Rob's going down. I'm sorry. Like, I hope. I hope people see the real Candace, the Candace from Potomac. She's gonna come sniper with her words.
- [86:47]
Co-host 5
Yeah, she might.
- [86:48]
Co-host 3
I can settle for Rob not winning.
- [86:50]
Nick
Basically, you're saying you don't realize. I don't think Rob doesn't realize what he just ignited.
- [86:53]
Co-host 3
No, I don't think he realizes that Candace is, like, really smooth and, like, she's. Even the vote that, like, keeps bringing up, like, that within itself. Like, she knows what she's doing.
- [87:01]
Co-host 2
I think it was insurance. I think she knows exactly what she's Doing. I think that Rob is in a tough spot now because if he does turn against her, people are going to be like, she dropped us a hit.
- [87:10]
Nick
Well, I mean, Sandra May. Maybe he follows Sandra's advice, which is to not turn against her and just say, yo, like, we had to.
- [87:17]
Co-host 4
Right.
- [87:17]
Co-host 2
Also, this turret full of housewives wife's things isn't even like. Because Donna Kelsey was a traitor. So for all they know, she wasn't the secret trader. But nobody knows that she was a secret trader other than wrong.
- [87:29]
Co-host 5
Yeah, that's true.
- [87:30]
Natalie
That's true.
- [87:31]
Jam Jam
Yeah.
- [87:31]
Co-host 3
I think I just take it too personal. I'm like the MJ from seasons ago, where I'm like, you come for anybody. I'm automatically not your team.
- [87:38]
Co-host 4
I was like, girl for getting voted off of, like, not watching our words. The amount of times I'd be like, we murdered somebody. Oh, here I go. Yeah, I'm off the show.
- [87:44]
Co-host 2
Yeah.
- [87:46]
Co-host 5
I like Rob being messy.
- [87:47]
Co-host 3
I like Rob, too. But not.
- [87:49]
Co-host 5
Let's play a smart game like you can't really do. I find it really annoying that he's besties with Colton, which means Colton's gonna stick around. Yes. Unless. But maybe Candace pulls one, gets Colton off, pisses Rob off, and then that's what makes them clash.
- [88:06]
Co-host 4
I mean, clearly, they're not on good terms today.
- [88:09]
Nick
Well, that's it. You know, that's an interesting thought. You know, if you're candid, Candace. Yeah. It's almost like if Rob goes to Candace and says, hey, I had to, but I'm still united with you. I mean, listen, if my name gets thrown out there, you're gonna have to do what you have to do. But let's stop that from happening. If I'm Candace, I'm like, sure, But I'm like, we're voting on your boy. We're voting out your boy.
- [88:30]
Co-host 3
Yeah. Yeah. Give me one.
- [88:32]
Co-host 4
Prove your loyalty.
- [88:33]
Nick
Yeah, prove your loyalty. Vote out your boy. Because right now, you're building a coalition with your. Your friends, and you're leaving me on an island. So if it's.
- [88:42]
Co-host 4
It's like actions speak louder than words right now, and she has no reason to trust you.
- [88:46]
Natalie
The person I want to hear from the most right now is Jam. Jam. So bring them on. Let's bring on.
- [88:53]
Co-host 3
Let's do a clap with Nick.
- [88:55]
Nick
Jam. Jam. Clap on three with me, please. Ready? One, two, three, Clap.
- [89:00]
Natalie
Just one perfect.
- [89:02]
Host 1
Jam.
- [89:02]
Nick
Jam. Welcome to the show.
- [89:04]
Co-host 3
Hi.
- [89:04]
Jam Jam
Thank you so much for having me. Oh, my God. I cannot believe this is finally happening.
- [89:09]
Nick
Well, us too. We're Very excited. Have you. First of all, very sad to see you go. You were so. Just delightful to watch and fun and enjoyable.
- [89:16]
Natalie
And to see you just your chair ripped from that table, it was so traumatic.
- [89:21]
Brent McLeary
Yeah.
- [89:22]
Jam Jam
I wasn't going to go any other way. Even if I was murder inside the confessional, I was going to rip that door and like, walk into the house on screen.
- [89:30]
Nick
How did you feel watching it back, knowing that you were right about Lisa but wrong about what it actually was that got you killed in the first. First place?
- [89:40]
Jam Jam
Well, it made me feel stupid a little bit. Obviously.
- [89:45]
Nick
I mean, at the end of the day, you, You. You got it right.
- [89:48]
Jam Jam
But I did get it right. It's about the whole idea of understanding how people change and shift. And I, I thought and I knew and I perceive that Lisa's interaction with me has changed. So as soon as I found out it was me and I was like, it had to be her because it's the only person that I was like, worried about. Something.
- [90:06]
Host 1
Something happened that makes.
- [90:07]
Nick
That makes a lot of sense because she. She clearly did target you. And then she has to think about, all right, how do I kill this guy? And she has to come up with her story. And she talked, you know, like her. Something was wrong with her pendant. So while you maybe got that wrong, you clearly must have felt that she was, like, very focused on you for a brief period of time in a way that someone else wasn't.
- [90:29]
Jam Jam
Exactly. I mean, and they show some of that, right? They show some of the saying, you have a sparkle in your eye that it's different. If you know anything about my Survivor journey at the end, people underestimated me the whole time. And the one thing I knew always was when they were lying to me. Right. Cause I have this thing that I know if people are lying. If I know them enough, I know if they're changing. So I describe it on Survivor as you lose the sparkle in the eye when you're talking to me. But in her case, I'd never seen House of. I knew about Lisa from Dancing with the Stars and all her career. The way she interacted with me then seemed like more than normal. Now afterwards, it's like it was like she was acting to me. It was what was happening in her eyes. She was looking at me in a way that was this character of Lisa fucking Rina instead of the Lisa Rina that I have get to know in all these weeks and love.
- [91:20]
Natalie
I saw a screen grab and maybe it's fake news, but to me, it looked like you are the one who kissed Lisa on the cheek.
- [91:30]
Brent McLeary
I didn't.
- [91:30]
Co-host 3
I didn't.
- [91:30]
Natalie
You didn't?
- [91:32]
Jam Jam
Play this clip again of me saying. I said she kissed me, but I was.
- [91:37]
Co-host 3
Hey, no.
- [91:40]
Jam Jam
It'S. Whatever. I'm like that. You know, I mean, this has getting me into troubles in other places of my life. But there's.
- [91:48]
Nick
Wait a minute.
- [91:49]
Jam Jam
I feel like I need to justify it. So here's the thing. Here's the thing. I understood that the banquet was supposed to be a celebration of life. That's how. How I was described. The banker was to be. And me paranoid. I asked on questions, and he was like, no, don't worry. Blah, blah, blah. I mean, I wasn't specific about the questions, but I should have known better that something was gonna go down there, right? So when I saw everybody dressed up. Cause we haven't seen each other in the whole day. You know, we're walking into the banquet hall and blah, blah, blah. And I was honestly really excited to see her because we Kiki, you know, we ride together in the cars. We always, like, try to have fun. She was like my Caroline in the car castle. Because people there were like. I felt like a lot of them were not, like, authentic with me, but I felt like she was. So when I saw her, it was my natural, like, oh, my God, I can't believe I get to see your amazing dress. Bring it. Give me a kiss. You know, it's who I am. I connected with the kiss. When Alan repeats the phrase. Cause he says it twice. He said it. Then he gives the potions. And then he said it again for like a second take. And that's when I realized Alan said, the kiss of the curse repeats itself. That phrase was the one that freaked me out. But I already had already happened. They took the potions. Everybody has cream. Like, that's why I'm so quiet about it. Cause at that point, everything was done. And I look at Mark and I say, she kissed me. Lisa kissed me. What do you mean she kissed you? What do you mean she kissed you? I was like, dude, it's a different kind of kiss. It was not the normal kiss, like she always gives me in the mornings. But at that point, nobody leave me, so whatever.
- [93:18]
Natalie
So what if she was like, oh, my God, Jam. Jam kissed me.
- [93:21]
Jam Jam
Has she said that?
- [93:23]
Co-host 3
No.
- [93:23]
Jam Jam
I mean, she had a shot and she didn't.
- [93:27]
Nick
Do you. What you just explained might have answered that question. But, you know, obviously Natalie was one of the people who was adamant that she had to take a potion. And even if you Wanted to take a potion. You were like, well, I'm not going to speak up, but like, was there any point while Natalie and anyone else was fighting for that potion? Was there a part of you that was like, I should speak up here? I think I might be the one getting killed. Or was that only after Alan mentioned.
- [93:52]
Jam Jam
It in terms of me? Only after Alan said the kiss. But I always was jam. Jam goes for the shield. Like, even the account of Instagram and social media and everything. Peacock and traitors. He's like, I always want the shield. I'm shield hungry. Why do I have to go for the shield? Always take Mora out, do everything like extra to get a shield. Because I always thought I was in danger. But by that point in the game, I knew that the half of the faithfuls that were in power call it Johnny, Christian, Eric, Mark and everybody that setting that Antara, they didn't trust me. They were not working with me. And this is a numbers game. There's a lot of this game that they don't show regarding numbers because they want to make the story about what happens on the roundtable. But for the first time, they finally show a little bit of strategy of this other group. Which is funny because my half of the castle, we were doing this since day one. We were like, we don't need 20 people voting together. We just need nine or eight. And then everybody else is going to gravitate to the numbers. And we did have control a little bit bit for at the beginning. But then everybody in my group started getting murdered. So by that point, I wanted to get some trust of them. So I was like, I need to change my thing. I need to be stop being so, you know, aggressive about this. And I'm going to be a team player. I'm going to decide. I'm going to help them. I'm going to be, you know, everybody's looking at what I'm saying. So I'm trying to. I'm going to say something that is going to bring me some love back to me because that's what I'm used to, right? I like people loving me and people liking me. So I wasn't used to. To people just like giving me the cold shoulder about who I was in the castle and that's why they show when I said to Johnny, grab it and give it to Kristen. Because at this point, these guys were standing there for like 10 minutes and nobody was moving. And in my head, all I was thinking is like, this is basically like an idol on survivors. Like, if I just Stand up and run and get it. Who's gonna stop me? And I go, like, somebody needs to go get it. Why are they waiting so much? And because I knew what needed to be done. That's why I said to Johnny, give it to Kristen. Because Kristin was very outspoken, I needed Kristen to like me. I felt like Kristin was, like, the leader of the pack, and she was the one that. She was the one that told me at one point, I don't think you're a traitor, but I just don't trust you. And it hurt me. It hurt me. And I was like, I need this girl to, like, love me back. And that's why I didn't. I was not that person. If you look back at it, I look so stupid. I look so quiet. I wasn't even having fun. I was like, whatever. These people hate me. Whatever. They think I'm an asshole. Whatever. They think I'm a traitor, but the traitors are not gonna kill me because they think I'm a traitor. And the Faithfuls are not gonna kill me because they just want me, because they wanna banish me later, whatever. So at that point, I was like, what can I do? And that's why I wasn't the person I was at the beginning.
- [96:30]
Natalie
Well, who did you think was the best dressed at the banquet? Besides yourself, of course.
- [96:34]
Jam Jam
Oh, my God.
- [96:35]
Nick
Maura.
- [96:35]
Jam Jam
Hello, Maura. With her, like, gold chest and plate and hat. I remember. It's funny, because I remember at some point she was getting dressed, and I go, like, behind her, because I thought she was a traitor.
- [96:52]
Co-host 2
Jam. Jam. If you were close with Lisa and you kind of felt like all the faithfuls were against you, what made you want to have their back at the end and go out saying that? Giving.
- [97:05]
Jam Jam
Oh, because I'm very competitive. Fuck everyone. So it was my honest reaction. And if you see, I started saying it very, like, subtle. And then they were questioning me. At this point, they're dragging me out, these two henchmen dragging me out, kicking and screaming, like, being, like, super loud. And these people are still like, what you said. I usually. Why do you mean a kiss? I was like, why would I be saying something different? I was like, just believe me, it was a kiss. It was a kiss. I mean, of course it wasn't a kiss, but it was her. And I was just giving my last oorah. And it's so. I loved it. I loved it.
- [97:46]
Co-host 3
Whatever.
- [97:47]
Nick
How surprised were you to find out that Candace and Rob were the other two traitors?
- [97:51]
Jam Jam
So I found out that the three of Them right were at the same time. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. I could not believe it. At that point. I didn't have a lot of suspicion. And I did told her the night before the banquet, maybe in my like having fun kind of thing. You know, Lisa described she was spanking Rob at some point. Like I was like the one with her, giving her the stick to spank Rob, telling the other people they were naughty for voting for her. And when we were end up laughing, I said like, I just can't believe they did that because it's not like I don't think you're a traitor, but I don't think you're high up there. How stupid.
- [98:27]
Nick
Knowing that Rob was a traitor. I mean, can you just. Like you mentioned that they're kind of showing a little of that strategy and it seems like behind the scenes, these past couple episodes, the Colton, Rob, Stephen, Mark and some of these other people have, have, have this little boys club. Is that, is that in, is that as strong as it appears, as intense as it appears, or do you feel like they could be turning on each other soon?
- [98:53]
Jam Jam
No, I think it was real. It was definitely a boys club. And I remember walking into a conversation in the library with Kristen and Mark and Kristen asked Mars, when did this thing started to happen? And obviously I didn't know what she was talking about. I was like, what do you mean? I was like, no, no, no. This man doing. Leading the thing. And I was like, well, I think it happened when, you know, I was. And she goes like, not you. I don't think it's you. It's not about you. But yeah, it was a real thing in the castle. I just felt that I was close to them, you know, because Natalie was also part. Just that they don't never say Natalie in that group. But me being so close to Natalie and the boys, like, my two people that I trusted the most were Natalie and Rob. When I found out it was Rob, I was like, oh my God, this asshole. He better wins. Fuck the Faithfuls. They're a fucking mess. Rob needs to win and that's it.
- [99:42]
Nick
What do you think makes Rob's so good?
- [99:45]
Jam Jam
His beauty. He's so handsome. That helps. No, he's really chill. I know. I don't know about the Love island, how he was apparently he was like a villain in Love Island. I, I didn't know that. He really connects with people in a very quiet, reserved way, you know that they rescribe Ron and Rob's relationship. I think he had that with a lot of people. He had that with me, too. He just made sure to, like, connect with people and they always showing him playing chess. And now that I go back, the night that I got murdered, he wanted to play chess with me. I felt like it was one of his multiple tools to connect with people because it's a very intimate setting and he would do that, that all the time.
- [100:23]
Natalie
Have you spoken to Michael Rappaport?
- [100:25]
Jam Jam
He DM me. Oh, he's in this TV font, something like that. And I like the comment, but it was so late. I think I was hanging out and the next morning I woke up and I was reviewing my messages and I realized it was him. And I was like, well, I didn't realize this was you. I wish you the best and your family. And then he said the same. And that's it.
- [100:46]
Nick
There you go.
- [100:47]
Natalie
There you go.
- [100:48]
Nick
Jam Jam. Appreciate you taking the time. It was such a pleasure watching you. So much fun. You were loved here and we hope to see more of you on tv. And when you're ever in la, please stop and say hi and come to the studio.
- [101:01]
Jam Jam
Yes. Thank you so much. It was a blast.
- [101:03]
Nick
Talking Jam Jam. Where can people follow you, support you, all that fun stuff.
- [101:07]
Jam Jam
Well, you can always follow me on Instagram @jamil pr that's y a m I L P R Or my website, jam jam pr.com. okay. And cameo. Oh, my God.
- [101:17]
Natalie
Ooh, yes.
- [101:18]
Nick
That's a birthday wish.
- [101:19]
Co-host 3
I want.
- [101:20]
Jam Jam
Oh, my God. I can compete with a lot of people, but I cannot compete against Carolyn. We are. She does, like 15 minute cameos.
- [101:26]
Co-host 3
Good for her. Wow.
- [101:27]
Jam Jam
Too much.
- [101:28]
Host 1
Does she?
- [101:29]
Nick
God bless her. Jam Jam. Thanks again, man. We appreciate you.
- [101:32]
Co-host 2
Bye.
- [101:34]
Jam Jam
Lots of love.
- [101:35]
Natalie
Lots of love.
- [101:36]
Co-host 2
He's so fun.
- [101:37]
Nick
What a delight. Delight, Absolutely.
- [101:39]
Co-host 2
He won Survivor too. Yeah. He was best friends with Carolyn who was on Traders last season, and they were such a delight to watch. They had the best. They still have a really beautiful friendship, but they were so fun to watch on Survivor. And then he won.
- [101:53]
Nick
All right, well, we have switching to Potomac.
- [101:57]
Natalie
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- [102:19]
Nick
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- [102:25]
Natalie
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- [102:39]
Nick
Jeff and Steve love the beef with sweet potatoes. It's packed with protein, vitamins and minerals. Plus they've got shinier coats and better energy. Celebrate your number one Valentine. Your greatest love your dog. Head to ollie.comv tell them about your dog and use code v to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus, they offer a happiness guarantee on your first box, so if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back. That's spelled out O l l I e.com v I a l l and enter code V I A L L to get 60% off your first box. All right. Well, we had an episode of Potomac last night. It was a big episode for Potomac. Karen Huger was released from prison and she had a sit down with Andy. First of all, I just want to say I'm become quickly a Karen Huger fan. Yeah, just a dynamic TV personality.
- [103:26]
Co-host 5
Yeah.
- [103:26]
Co-host 2
She also looked so good coming out of prison. You said this on plus, but.
- [103:30]
Nick
Yeah, but Andy sat down with her and had the, you know, conversation we've all been curious of him having with her, which was mostly centered around obviously the arrest and what she thought about it. But certainly tuition touched on, you know, whether she thinks she deserves another chance on reality tv. And it certainly brings up an interesting conversation around, you know, with we've talked about traitors, we've talked about some of the discourse going on by some of the cast. And you know, certainly we believe that people deserve second chances in life. But again, the question is, is like, where do you draw that line? You know, but it's also reality TV that is casting willing participants. And quite frankly, a lot of of people aren't willing to expose their lives on TV in the way that many of these housewives do.
- [104:18]
Natalie
Very interesting.
- [104:19]
Co-host 2
It was interesting also to hear her talk about like living in prison and just the shock of being there and her schedule and the fact that she said that she was on her period so that she could get pads to line the seat of the toilet.
- [104:36]
Co-host 3
Karen has a mentor too, just to the younger girls. Like, I feel like that was beautiful and powerful, jarring, like side of the perspective for her.
- [104:42]
Co-host 4
I also appreciated Andy's style of interviewing in the sense that, like, it's a tough situation that she's talking about, and she obviously just came out of prison. I feel like he handled it very well, like, delicately, but at the same time, it was like, okay, like, you're being like, I don't have an issue with alcohol. And him being like, well, we've had four run ins. Like, you know what I mean? Like, being very. Like, you can't say one thing without the other. Which was kind of what I was worried about, where I was like, is it going to be kind of like a puff piece or.
- [105:06]
Nick
She seems to own it. She did, but what was the saying?
- [105:09]
Host 1
She.
- [105:10]
Co-host 5
She considers herself. I don't know. This isn't exactly how she said it, so it's not verbatim, but she's just like, someone who will always be in recovery, whether that's for, like, alcohol or.
- [105:20]
Nick
Prescription, which, honestly, I kind of appreciate that answer. We talk about this all. I mean, like, the way words have been buzzed up, so to speak, or lost their meaning or just how labels, you know, get used against us and weaponized against this. It. You know, it almost sounds like a cliche. But I. I totally get it, though. You know, she just has to find a way to take that ownership that doesn't maybe feel so heavy and shameful the way, you know, that word has maybe been used against people.
- [105:49]
Co-host 4
And I.
- [105:50]
Nick
It makes sense.
- [105:51]
Co-host 4
I appreciate, because it's realistic, you know what I mean? Like, she's not sitting here being like, oh, I'm a changed woman. Like, oh, like, I would never make another mistake again. And I think that that's what the accountability is, her being like, hey, like, I've made mistakes, but I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm a perfect person or I'm a healed person, but I'm in always in progression to getting there, you know, which we all are.
- [106:08]
Nick
Certainly seems like she was rested up for her appearance back on tv because the preview for the reunion was serving a lot.
- [106:18]
Co-host 5
Karen versus Wendy. Let's fucking go.
- [106:20]
Co-host 4
She said, the Grandom is back. This is my stage.
- [106:23]
Co-host 3
That is the Grandam.
- [106:24]
Co-host 4
Have y' all been. Because I've got things to say to you and I cannot wait. And she looked phenomenal.
- [106:31]
Co-host 3
Oh, it was also. It was interesting watching Andy show her the clips from the previous reunion, too, and being like, what do you think of, like, what Ashley said or what she said? And her being like, yeah, what Ashley said that she can rest that one.
- [106:43]
Co-host 2
Yeah.
- [106:43]
Co-host 3
That wasn't true.
- [106:44]
Nick
There was a clip of them showing Wendy saying something the effect of. And I'm paraphrasing, but, like, when you're in the Valley, you don't know what you're doing. Capable of. Which I took as when times are bad or desperate. Or desperate. Which kind of sounds like an confession. Confession.
- [107:04]
Co-host 4
Which I believe is why the grand dame is like, shut your mouth.
- [107:07]
Nick
Yeah.
- [107:07]
Co-host 4
You talk too much. And that's your problem.
- [107:09]
Co-host 5
Yeah.
- [107:11]
Co-host 4
You know what I mean? Because that's. I think even Karen Giselle tried to get her to say a couple of things when she was in. When she was originally released from being a. Arrested on the last season. And she was like, I'm not saying anything. Like, you keep trying to, like, get me to talk to you about things. That's for my lawyer.
- [107:25]
Natalie
Yeah.
- [107:25]
Co-host 4
I won't address anything.
- [107:26]
Host 1
What's the.
- [107:27]
Nick
You know, anything could be used against you in the court of law. And most people aren't mic'd up with cameras recording.
- [107:32]
Co-host 4
I was gonna say especially in Housewives.
- [107:34]
Co-host 5
Yeah. And the. You know, the court of law is no stranger to Bravo footage.
- [107:39]
Co-host 4
Plus, I was gonna say Teresa Giudice. Erica Jane. I'm rewatching Erica's first season.
- [107:43]
Nick
Well, not only is a confession, it's a.
- [107:45]
Jam Jam
It's.
- [107:45]
Nick
There's a motive there. The motive is times are bad. You know, I. I needed it. I was desperate.
- [107:51]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
Right.
- [107:51]
Natalie
It's like you were in the Valley.
- [107:53]
Co-host 4
People do desperate things.
- [107:55]
Natalie
Is episode of Potomac reunion. Okay. Let's get it.
- [108:01]
Co-host 4
I have a feeling this reunion is gonna go down in history.
- [108:03]
Natalie
Let's get it. We also had an episode of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, and we have a rapid recap. If you missed it. Erica and Rachel Zoe are not fudgeing with Amanda because she reminds them of an airline attendant from the 60s. Kyle Richards wears a pair of jorts with a blazer, which could mean nothing. But she also doesn't think Dorit meant to disrespect Amanda's son by getting mad at her for shit talking. And then she threw astray by comparing Amanda to Crystal. Reference. That is uncalled for and unsportsmanlike conduct on the play. Justice for Crystal. Bose invites her childhood friend Summer to hang out and talk about the divorce with Dorit and Kyle. But then Mo shows up. Right. As Dorit asks Kyle if there's a chance they would ever get back to together. This is the diva that loves a chaotic cameo. Also, apparently, Amanda was in a cult. Question mark, question mark. Which could explain a lot, actually. Needless to say, the girls are intrigued. Also, Rachel Zoe filed for divorce from her husband and does not want spousal support. Kyle gets emotional seeing the old house for the first time because she misses her old life. In dinner for Erica and Duri's birthday, Amanda said she was verbally accosted by Dorit. How will she react to that? We'll find out next week. I love how she said accosted and was like, wait, wait, wait. Let me Google and make sure that.
- [109:11]
Sandra Diaz-Twine
That is the word.
- [109:14]
Co-host 4
Did you call that out?
- [109:15]
Co-host 5
Yeah.
- [109:15]
Co-host 3
Kyle Richards comparing Amanda to Crystal.
- [109:18]
Nick
What was that straight that you like? Wait a minute.
- [109:21]
Co-host 3
Specific reference is that when Crystal was on the show, because she has such a good, like, vernacular vocabulary and she knows definition, she would cite words with definitions. So Crystal reposted it too, being like, apparently college isn't for everybody.
- [109:34]
Co-host 2
Yeah.
- [109:35]
Co-host 5
Yeah.
- [109:36]
Co-host 4
Honestly, good for Crystal too. She hasn't been on the show for years, and these women love to bring her. Her up every season.
- [109:40]
Co-host 5
She's always on their minds.
- [109:42]
Co-host 2
Yeah, she had, like, corrected some vocabulary. That would have been really fun, too.
- [109:46]
Nick
Rachel Zoe not wanting spousal support is giving. I make so much more money than him. I don't want to pay spousal support.
- [109:54]
Co-host 4
Whatever else I don't have to communicate with this person for. Please.
- [109:57]
Natalie
But imagine her being like, oh, I sure, I'll meet your friends. And then it's like, this is. You hear Kyle's story and then Dorit's story, and then Mauricio shows, shows up. What a dramatic dinner for this summer.
- [110:08]
Nick
I definitely felt for Kyle when she was taking the two over Amanda's house. And then Mauricio is just kind of.
- [110:12]
Co-host 4
Like, why are you emotional?
- [110:14]
Co-host 5
No.
- [110:14]
Natalie
First of all, I have an issue immediately with the way that they did the tour. Right? And then she's like, Amanda's like, I'm gonna go put the babies to bed.
- [110:24]
Co-host 4
Like, which is also kind of weird. I know we're filming a show and you guys are gonna do a scene.
- [110:28]
Natalie
But just sit here and wait for me to be done.
- [110:30]
Co-host 5
Like, okay, I guess.
- [110:32]
Co-host 4
How long is your bedtime? Five minutes.
- [110:34]
Natalie
And then her husband is like, oh, do you want some. Some water? Like, do you want ice in it? Or whatever. And Mauricio, instead of going to sit with Kyle to be like, oh, my gosh, Like, a moment of private time while he's getting the drink, Amanda's upstairs to be like, how crazy is this to be in this? He walks with the husband into the pantry to get the Water.
- [110:54]
Co-host 3
He also just walked in the house though. So isn't that just like. Don't immediately like leave the. I don't know. I don't know.
- [110:59]
Co-host 5
The host, Justin really, really gagged me.
- [111:01]
Co-host 3
I did call Mary because I was watch scene and in this scene she's like, yeah, we've raised like beautiful daughters in this house. And then he goes, and now you're marrying one. And they call it Mary. And I was like, oh my God. They just literally admitted. So news flash. I've learned that you can say you're marrying someone. It doesn't mean like you actually are marrying. Yeah, the girl. It means you're marrying one of your girls.
- [111:21]
Co-host 4
Like marrying off one of your daughters. Yes.
- [111:24]
Co-host 5
Anyway, so we're walking, we're walking to go get drinks and I get a. I get a cough mixed call from Justin and a na.
- [111:31]
Nick
Mary, I'm gagged.
- [111:33]
Co-host 5
Call me right now. And I was like, what is going on? And then I call him and goes, did you watch Beverly Hills? And I was like, yeah. And I was like, what the hell are you talking about?
- [111:45]
Co-host 3
I misunderstand.
- [111:46]
Co-host 4
I was like, I'm also not engaged. But she did wear jorts. When Rachel rolled her eyes about the, the matcha order and then said she gives what 1960s Pan Am Air airline attachment? I was like, tell me you don't fuck with somebody in the nicest way.
- [112:02]
Natalie
Every time they flash back to that car ride where she's on the phone in the middle seat, I'm cringing. It's so. I'm like, this is my hell.
- [112:11]
Co-host 2
Because.
- [112:11]
Co-host 4
Because nobody else can talk in the car.
- [112:12]
Natalie
And I was. And she's like, you know, like, I don't know if the person was on speakerphone, but she's talking like this, as if the person is on speakerphone.
- [112:19]
Nick
That's crazy.
- [112:20]
Co-host 3
Was she not sending a voice memo? That's how I understood it.
- [112:22]
Co-host 4
A 30 minute voice memo. They said she was on the phone for 30 minutes.
- [112:25]
Co-host 3
It sounded, it looked like she was talking as if, I mean, she was switching from.
- [112:29]
Natalie
To the ear and talk.
- [112:31]
Nick
Also when you think about the fact that it was. There's a GoPro in the car, they're miked, so they're doing a scene.
- [112:39]
Co-host 5
So.
- [112:39]
Co-host 4
And you're sitting next to Rachel Zoe and Erika Jayne, who also are very busy businesswomen.
- [112:45]
Nick
But I don't doubt that Amanda's very good at business.
- [112:47]
Co-host 3
Right?
- [112:48]
Nick
And she's clearly doing well and has money. But any legitimate conversation that is important to your business, you don't have sitting in the back seat.
- [112:59]
Co-host 4
Yeah. Sitting in the back seat on camera.
- [113:01]
Natalie
You say, hey, guys, I'll call you when I get out of the car.
- [113:06]
Nick
Yeah.
- [113:06]
Natalie
When I'm alone in my hotel room.
- [113:08]
Nick
Yeah. You don't even say it on speaker.
- [113:11]
Co-host 4
Some people just say, hey, can't talk right now. We'll call you in 20.
- [113:13]
Co-host 2
Yeah, we could.
- [113:14]
Co-host 4
We could hit. Hit a custom message.
- [113:17]
Nick
When she was like, I paid for that house. That was. That was much.
- [113:21]
Co-host 4
And especially for Rachel, so who's also, like, in the middle of getting divorced, and she's just like. Like, why was that necessary? Like, you know what I mean? Like, it was just like, it's a hit to your husband. I haven't even met your husband yet. And it's just like. I don't know. Like, it just felt. It just felt weird. Like, why throw him under the bus for no reason?
- [113:34]
Natalie
Not her telling Kyle that her. Her jean shorts are really in right now. I was like, why would you say that to someone? Like, oh, wow, your longer shorts. They're really in right now. It's like, okay.
- [113:49]
Co-host 4
It's giving. Oh, you have ghostwriter. I wrote my own book.
- [113:53]
Co-host 3
She's just a walking soundbite of like, oh.
- [113:55]
Nick
I mean, I am enjoying her.
- [113:56]
Co-host 3
I love Amanda, too. I love her, too.
- [113:58]
Co-host 2
I did see we are, but they are not.
- [114:00]
Co-host 5
I did see a tweet that said, Amanda's, like, the first AI Housewife.
- [114:04]
Co-host 3
Aw.
- [114:05]
Co-host 5
Which I thought was. It made me laugh, but I also felt aw.
- [114:08]
Co-host 4
Justin, did you notice that Rachel Zo gives compliments? Like, you do what? When she sat. It's giving 1960s airline attendant Rachel Zoe.
- [114:16]
Co-host 3
And I just really understand aesthetic aesthetics and, like, comparisons.
- [114:19]
Co-host 4
Justin, like, gave me a compliment one day when I came to work, and he was like, you're giving, like, Oregon sorority girl in winter. And I was just like, is that a compliment?
- [114:31]
Co-host 5
You guys obviously don't come from the Leslie Knope school of compliments. Do you remember. You know how Leslie will compliment Anne in. In Parks and Rec? That's how I compliment my girls. You know, I'm like, you are a beautiful sunflower.
- [114:44]
Co-host 4
That's.
- [114:44]
Co-host 5
That fell up top this earth.
- [114:46]
Co-host 4
Mary told me once I was giving Christian autumn.
- [114:48]
Co-host 5
Christian girl autumn because you were eating in a fall fit.
- [114:53]
Co-host 3
Wait, did you guys notice that in the after show? So I don't know if they've done this before, but they did pickups, and they've shot now two versions of Beverly Hills after show, I think just to get more coverage or whatnot. But Amanda's not present in the pickups.
- [115:05]
Co-host 4
Do you think this is a one and done season for her?
- [115:07]
Co-host 3
Well, I think, I mean, we don't know obviously. It could be so many different reasons. Maybe she wasn't available or what. But yeah, I mean she's been getting a lot of hate specifically in regards to her career right now online. So maybe it's attached to that. I know she did an interview where she also said she was part of a cult. So there's a lot to her we don't know on.
- [115:24]
Co-host 4
And one thing I will give her credit on too is that she did do an interview talking about the cult thing, her headshot, which I guess is from a DUI like 10 years ago. But she was very much like I owned that. She said that she wrote the original. The article about her being in a cult was from her blog that she started and it's the first post on her blog. So she's kind of like these women are acting like they're finding out secrets about me, but like I posted that, like I'm the one who's put that out there. So that's the one thing I will give her credit on is that she's claiming that there's no skeletons in her.
- [115:53]
Nick
Closet because also, I mean sometimes people get caught up in the wrong group and leave. And also was it her saying like, I'm in a cult, like she was.
- [116:05]
Co-host 3
Part of a religious. A religion that she compares to a lot of cult like practices.
- [116:08]
Nick
That's what that was kind of my point where it's just like, is she calling it a cult after like kind of being awoken to the. What it was.
- [116:15]
Co-host 3
It's retrospective from her experience is what she's saying.
- [116:18]
Co-host 4
But I can see where the eyebrow raises to like independent coaching with no credentials from like being in a cult because it's kind of like you come up with this rhetoric or like steps to take. So it's like I can see whether it's eyebrow raises.
- [116:29]
Natalie
And then I think back to the lunch with Dorit where Bose is like, what are some like steps or advice you can give Dorit on like what she should do right now with her finances with pk and she's like just like manifest. Just like being powerful.
- [116:45]
Co-host 3
I think they're like practices though.
- [116:47]
Co-host 4
Yeah. In a long term situation. Absolutely. I think what Bose was asking for Dorit was like concrete steps he could be taking in order anyone to call, just cross your fingers.
- [117:00]
Nick
Is that a person?
- [117:02]
Co-host 4
How long is it going to take? You know, like something that comes with answers. Yeah.
- [117:05]
Co-host 5
Yeah.
- [117:06]
Nick
Well, she is. I'm still. I'm still in Amanda. Although I. You know, when you rub bows the wrong way, it raises eyebrows.
- [117:13]
Co-host 3
Yeah.
- [117:14]
Co-host 4
I mean, yeah, that's what I was like. I'm excited to see where the season goes because, what, we're only like, five, six episodes in, so I'm just like, she's got a long way to go with the character arc, and we haven't even hit the mugshot yet.
- [117:25]
Natalie
Yeah, true.
- [117:27]
Co-host 4
And that was, like, a big part of the trailer.
- [117:28]
Nick
Well, that will do it for today's episode. Thank you to all our guests, including Brent, Sandra, and Jam Jam. We appreciate them all taking the time and appreciate you all listening. Do not, not forget to check out Vile Files plus for more amazing content. And again, if you want to see the V files live on May 6th with the cast of next season's Temptation island, be sure to get tickets now. They won't last long. We will see you back on Thursday.
- [117:57]
Co-host 3
Bye.
- [117:58]
Nick
Bye.
- [118:12]
Natalie
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- [118:36]
Co-host 4
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Natalie
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