The Victor Davis Hanson Show

Episode: "More Students From China is a Bad Idea"

Hosts: Victor Davis Hanson & Jack Fowler

Date: September 4, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the issue of Chinese students in American universities, examining the national security, cultural, and economic implications. Victor Davis Hanson and Jack Fowler also discuss broader topics touching on immigration, demographic trends, left-wing politics, and the state of the American university system. Throughout, they maintain a critical, sometimes caustic tone, marked by Hanson's blunt historical comparisons and Fowler's everyman observations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chinese Students in American Universities

A. Contradictory U.S. Policy and Security Risks

• Context: Donald Trump proposes doubling Chinese students in the U.S., while simultaneously signaling restrictions on student visas.
• Hanson notes that "they need to get on the same page on that." (03:47)
• Espionage concerns: Hanson cites the Stanford Review’s reporting on Chinese students’ forced participation in data gathering and references a Wall Street Journal article detailing Chinese recruitment efforts on U.S. campuses.
• “During the Trump first administration, Stanford was fined several million dollars for not reporting gifts from the Chinese government.” (04:42)
• The problematic legacy of Confucius Institutes as fronts for espionage.
• Hanson draws a historical parallel: "Everything is controlled by the PLA...they'll never attract people who feel they can just think and experiment." (05:26)
• Criticizes the notion that increased student exchange will liberalize China—as with similar arguments about students from the Middle East.

B. University Finances and Radicalization

• Chinese students are a “money machine for the universities that are corrupt.” (10:45)
• University admissions prioritize out-of-state or foreign students for financial gain, often at the expense of local (taxpaying) students; Fowler highlights the resulting lack of opportunity for domestic students (13:18).
• Hanson argues Chinese and other foreign student communities often engage in campus radicalization and political monitoring. He references Eric Swalwell and the “Fang Fang” espionage scandal. (10:45)
• “I'm not bashing Chinese at all. Some of the greatest critics that warn us the most are Chinese Americans, especially from Taiwan. So why would you do that?” (11:54)

C. Bargaining Strategy with China

• Rather than increasing Chinese student numbers to 600,000, Hanson advocates for using their presence as leverage: “Not one Chinese national will come to the United States and that would really mean something because they know that their research and development in the military sphere is about 90% dependent on getting the technology from us.” (12:00)

2. Foreign Students, Diversity & Radicalization

• Fowler’s anecdote: His children at UConn observed a growing, insulated Chinese student community, with mysterious “uncle visits” each Thursday (13:18).
• Hanson extends the critique: presence of radical foreign students (e.g., pro-Hamas activists) takes places from domestic students and imports grievances to U.S. campuses (14:04).
• "They radicalize our campus, especially on questions of the Middle East. And they monitor people who are for Taiwan or for Israel." (14:10)

3. The Illusion of Cultural Exchange

• Old narratives on foreign students becoming ambassadors for liberal values are dismissed.
• Hanson quips: “You know, Jack, if they come over here from the Middle East... Muhammad Atta came over...went to strip shows and gambling in Vegas and that really fortified him to kill a bunch, you know, thousands of Americans. So I don’t buy that argument...” (15:47)

4. Immigration & Student Visas Policy

A. Curbing F-1 Visas & Indian Immigration

• New Trump administration rules cap migrant student visas at four years, disrupting the F-1 to H-1B to green card pipeline. (16:14)
• Indian immigrants are the largest non-Hispanic inflow; Hanson cautions against immigrant groups criticizing US as “xenophobic,” especially after quickly becoming the highest-income community (18:35).
• “So I don’t think that any immigrant group should, after being treated so well by the United States, should start criticizing us as xenophobic or restrictionist or any of that. Go to India and see how you’re treated.” (20:35)
• He also dissects the problematic response from the Sikh community around a deadly traffic case, calling for more civic assimilation and symbolic gestures (such as flying the American flag at temples). (23:26)

B. U.S.-India Relations

• Fowler notes India's growing geopolitical importance.
• Hanson breaks down U.S.-India relations under Trump, including strategic disagreements around Russian oil and trade imbalances, and the significance of US-India economic ties (remittances and trade surplus) (24:44).

5. Demography, Fertility, and Civilizational Decline

• The hosts consider demographic weaknesses in Western societies and China, linking population decline to civilizational crises and referencing Roman history for parallels. (34:53)
• “And so there are cosmic forces at play...fertility is the key to civilizational health. If you don’t have fertility, you have a shrinking aging population.” (35:26)
• Contrasts current “blue” states with depopulation and dysfunction against “red” states’ relative vitality and higher fertility.

6. Grooming Gangs and Social Breakdown (Britain/Scotland Case)

• Brief coverage of a viral video: a Scottish girl confronting immigrant men to protect herself and her friends. (31:17)
• Hanson launches into a cultural critique:
  • “...if you can’t make that moral distinction between an epidemic of grooming and child trafficking among Islamic immigrants...and you’re worried about their feelings to the detriment of hundreds...of young girls...you have no moral compass anymore.” (32:21)
  • Urges listeners to read Roman classics to grasp the decadence and decline now visible in the modern West.

7. The American Flag & Cultural Patriotism

A. Trump’s Executive Order

• Trump’s executive order against flag burning is discussed; Hanson doubts enforceability against Supreme Court precedent but acknowledges the significance of the gesture (56:12).

B. Symbolism of the Flag

• Fowler recounts foreign attitudes toward national flags (Canada, Norway) to highlight unique American patriotism.
• Hanson: “Of all the countries I’ve seen, you know, the two countries that have flags all the time and they’re very proud of: Israel and Greece...” (62:19)

8. Blue State vs. Red State Dynamics & Democratic Party Critique

• Hanson contrasts Southern (“red”) states’ opportunity, safety, and growing economies to the dysfunction and stratification of blue states (confederate comparison).
• “The Democratic Party...has embodied the Confederate antebellum ethos. I mean they’re really into racial essentialism...” (66:45)
• Notes high income disparity, poor middle-class prospects, and a “Confederate” social structure emerging in blue states.

9. Gavin Newsom & Democratic Politics

• Newsom’s rising profile in the Democratic presidential field, contrasted against his governance failures in California (48:45).
• Hanson criticizes Newsom for focusing on social media and anti-Trump rhetoric instead of solving California’s concrete problems: energy, water, education, and infrastructure. (45:31–50:41)

10. Miscellaneous Topics

• Discussion on the prospects of early conventions for both parties (50:41), the performative nature of some “indigenous” activism (51:38), and Virginia’s gubernatorial race, including a racial-identity controversy (63:54).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On ideological contradictions:
  “They need to get on the same page on that...At Stanford, where I work, the Stanford Review ran a long series of espionage activity...” — Victor Davis Hanson (03:47)

• On the futility of cultural engagement with China:
  “No, no, no, no, no, no. That's all show, but that's what the left thinks...They just love our freedom. No, they don’t. They hate it. The government I'm talking about." — Victor Davis Hanson (15:01)

• On immigration hypocrisy:
  “Why does Obrego Garcia walk down the corridor and say, this is a corrupt government, corrupto gubernero, you know, in Spanish. If he doesn’t like it, go back.” — Victor Davis Hanson (21:46)

• On demographic future:
  “Fertility is the key to civilizational health. If you don’t have fertility, you have a shrinking aging population.” — Victor Davis Hanson (35:26)

• On flag burning:
  “I wish there was a way you could enforce it...if you are a university...then you're not going to get federal funds...But for individual people just to go out and burn it. I don’t think that he’s going to be able to enforce it.” — Victor Davis Hanson (56:12)

• On blue state decline:
  “It’s really just a bunch of wealthy people and high professional salaries and then poor people. The middle class is leaving. So it's very Confederate is what I'm getting at.” — Victor Davis Hanson (68:07)

Key Timestamps

• Espionage & Chinese Students: 03:47 – 06:42, 10:45 – 13:18
• University Admissions and Radicalization: 13:18 – 16:14
• Immigration Policy and Indian Community Critique: 16:14 – 24:21
• US-India Relations: 24:21 – 27:04
• Demographics and Roman Parallels: 34:53 – 39:18
• Grooming/Gang Crime in the UK: 31:17 – 34:41
• Flag Burning & National Symbols: 56:12 – 62:19
• Gavin Newsom & CA Politics: 48:45 – 50:41
• Virginia Gubernatorial Race: 63:54 – 71:04

Conclusion

This episode delivers a wide-ranging, skeptical analysis of increasing Chinese student presence in U.S. universities, broader challenges around immigration, cultural cohesion, and American identity, and contrasts between blue-state and red-state America. Hanson is adamant that national self-interest, security, and integration should guide policy—making impassioned arguments, often with historical sweep and biting sarcasm. Frequent references to cultural decline, both in America and the West, mark the show’s distinct tone.