B (4:38)

That encourages me, Ron. You know, I met with, I tried to meet with every prospective students. I only call the ones the Lord told me to call. So I just think he need, he maybe knew you needed a little bit extra to get closed and over the hump.

A (4:57)

Oh, he knows I'm stubborn. Which you've discovered. Now you know why I've been like a tick on a dog in terms of being your friend through the years, no matter what.

B (5:06)

You've been my friend, Ryan. And you know what? We've been at this together now for over 20 years.

A (5:13)

Yeah.

B (5:13)

And that, that's something. We've been friends for that long.

A (5:16)

Yeah.

B (5:17)

And we met in that little prayer chapel that day.

A (5:19)

We did. We did. Friends who meet in prayer stay together for the years.

B (5:23)

That's right. The, the friends who pray together stay together. Exactly. So I, and you've, you've, you've done a lot, Brian. I've, I've just, I haven't watched it from a distance. I've had kind of a front row seat. You've, you've served some great churches across Texas and you, you know, you have been notably just a very involved in the launching of the Global Methodist Church. Yeah, tell. Just give us a little bit of a sketch of what that's been like, I mean, it's, it's been a mass. People don't realize what was involved in all that.

A (6:13)

Yeah. And how long. It wasn't just on the back of a napkin that a few people decided, let's, hey, let's, let's have, you know, this new iteration, this new move of Methodism. But all the way back to my days there at Asbury 2004, Maxi Dunham, I remember him going off to General Conference and he and Bill Henson, and there were conversations that early 2004 about amicable separation over irreconcilable theological difference. And, you know, Max became a mentor and invited me to serve on the national board of directors for the Confessing Movement. And then from there I met Robert Renfro and he invited me to serve and was the executive vice president for Good News on the board. Vice chair of Good News. And just all those years working all for the same cause, not to start a new denomination, JD but to let the sleeping giant of Methodism awake, to remember the Spirit filled movement with which they began. And of course, it presented in some social issues, but that was never the underlying issue, at least for me or for the people that I worked with. It was always about theological doctrinal awakening. Billy Abraham was part of that. And I became friends with Billy a very long time ago. In fact, he was technically a member. His charge conference was at the first church I served in San Antonio, Texas. And so that's how I got to know Billy. But you know, Gandalf, Gandalf, I'm telling you, we've never had one finer. And you know, he wrote this, this wonderful work, Waking from Doctrinal Amnesia. And that was always my sense was like the, the grand deposit of Methodism is so powerful that if ever like brought back to the surface, we would see another great awakening. And so the move into the Global Methodist Church really for me has been a long journey of working in the same direction into an unexpected outcome. But that's even better than anything we could have dreamed of in 2004 or even earlier with other people who were thinking along these lines. And you're right, it's been a great work, but it has not been a heavy lift. The spirit of God is moving and moving ahead of us in such significant, powerful ways. And I'm just like a guy on the side working as hard as he can to keep up with what God's doing. I mean, there are certainly way more who have done more and are much more central to what's happening. But I'm. I'm like, a lot of us now, you know, we've been tending dying embers, and now we're like, you know, got the, the billows and we're just. I'm just over here pumping as fast as I can. Because you can't feed the flame fast enough. Yeah. And.

B (9:39)

And you know, Ryan, I don't know if people even know this really, but you were nominated. Maybe you were a candidate to become one of the early bishops of this move, right?

A (9:51)

Yeah, that was a. That was a crazy deal, J.D. because, you know, really, from. From our area, Leah Gregory was who I was on the delegation, co head of the delegation. And we were like, well, we're nominating Leah Heady Gregory. And. And then we were done with that. And, and one of the members of delegation said, excuse me, but, you know, do we have the opportunity to nominate anyone else? I was like, well, there is no one else. Well, we think there is. And so the, the delegation asked me to excuse myself, and I did, and they ended up nominating me. And when I found that out, I mean, immediately called Bitch Gregory and just said, hey, this is, this is what happened. I. I'm gonna decline. And she said, no, let's. Let's just see what the Lord does. Because in those early days, we didn't even know. We hadn't had a. We were still in the transitional period. Everything was still in motion and moving. In my personal life, I will tell you that almost a year before, I had said to Leah, who was my. The President pro Tem of the conference, so she was my conference leader at the time in the gmc, and I was the senior minister at First Waco, First Methodist, Waco. And I told her a year before all this, like, hey, this is the last year that I'm going to be the senior pastor here. I don't know what's next, but I do. I did hear a definitive, clear word from the Lord that a season of transition is coming and that a time of service to the broader movement of the Methodist is coming. And I don't know what that is because I never thought about doing anything other than serving a local church. I was there for 21 years, had always just really enjoyed it and loved First Wake. The finest church still is. I mean, we still attend there. So anyway, it's. So she said, you know, you know, the Lord told you you're moving on, but didn't say to what. So why don't you just. You need to just wait on the Lord for all things. So all those nominees from all over the country went to the Transitional Leadership Council, the tlc. And we were certain, you know, Leah was on that. On that group. We were certain her name would come through and mine wouldn't, because they were only gonna. They were only gonna lift up, you know, whatever nine people to. To be considered for the episcopacy according to the way they were doing at the time. And my understanding is, you know, they didn't really talk about it. They just said, like, here's the whole pool of names. Everybody rank them in order. And. And they did. And that's how they did it. And which is why I think if they would have done it differently, it would have looked differently. But, you know, you had three geographic areas that each had two candidates emerge, which normally, you know, we wouldn't work in those ways. We. We would have, but because they didn't, it wasn't like that. It was like, here's all the names. Pray over it and put an asterisk next to the nine you. You want to see. And that's how that. That list came together. All that to be said, though, while it was a super high honor and enjoyed the process of just listening to the Lord, I do think that everything turned out exactly the way it should. I mean, I don't know if you were listening, but when we were doing the episcopal elections in 2024, you know, I was sitting next to Leeah and I kept asking her, when can I drop out? Like, when can I? She was like, no, just stay. Stay put. So we had the first ballot, and it was Bishop Moore, Bishop Everiste, and Bishop Gregory, all elected on the first ballot. Now, here's something nobody really knows. This is. This is crazy. I was serving in a church in another conference in the old Rio, Texas conference, and was asked if I would consider moving conferences to Central Texas by Bishop Mike Lowry. And he said, I need you to meet the district superintendent for Waco before I can do this. Will you meet her? So, J.D. we met at Moonshine on 4th street in Austin, Texas. So just. There's a joke in that. Two Methodist pastors at Moonshine in Austin. Anyway, I sat at the table and she shared with me kind of her sense of spiritual leadership. And I had not served under the spiritual authority of somebody that was so connecting close to the Lord in so long. I mean, I started weeping at the table, and I looked at her and I said, you will be a first ballot bishop. And she was like, never. You know, what's the math to that for somebody like her in, in our former denomination, it's like zero sum, but I was convinced. And so when that first ballot was done and she was on it, I was like, I told you, you know, 10 years ago. So it was awesome to be able to stand up at that point and just say, you know, you've got the best of us from mid Texas. And so, you know, we're excited to see who else the Lord wants to live. But yeah, that was the whole kind of behind the scenes process of that deal. Yeah.

B (15:00)

And then, and so you, you were not put, you didn't go forward on that, but what happened was you actually kind of became her servant in the conference. Right.

A (15:12)

I've been her servant for a decade. I was the senior pastor of our largest church. And how she's so singular, people don't understand. When I met her, the light, her license plate was Gate Stormer. I have always been so happy to get right behind her and push, you know, Wesley, give me a hundred people who fear not, right? And we'll storm the very gates of hell. I'm like, I'm with you sister, let's go. And so, yeah, when she was elected, it was a part time position. She was our conference superintendent in mid Texas. And so, you know, it became quickly clear these are two full time jobs, she's just going to get paid halftime for one of them. So she is a full time superintendent and a halftime bishop. And so I moved out of the church to become her conference operating officer and to help fill in for things when she's traveling and working on her Episcopal work. But it's a great, it's a great thing to be able to work for somebody like that and to support someone like that. It, you know, jd, we've democratized religion and it was never meant to be a democracy. It's. We are a the we. We live under a theocracy in the reign of God and on this side of the new covenant, we are called to apostolic organization. And so I have had such a good time working in the apostolic atmosphere that, you know, we pray through and eventually our leader directs and we go. And we've been able to move farther, faster than most in part because of that understanding.

B (17:23)

Well, well, I'm trying to set up for, for our listeners who is, who is working on this, you know, this resource that we're going to talk about here in a minute. It's going to take us another minute to get there. But you know, you've been a pastor for a long time, then you've served in the, the sort of administration and the organization and the, the movemental apparatus of a new denomination, which is of certainly a different vantage point and a different layer of service. And now you've come all the way, you know, writing is, it's, it's, you know, if, if the church is the ground writing and I would say that, you know, the, the denominational structure is the sub soil, it's down below the ground. It's not way up here. Right. It's down in the seed bed. Yeah, well, writing and, and disciple making through writing and curriculum building is lower even than that. It gets down into the taproot zone. And so, you know, you and Jason are such fitting witnesses and servants to have developed what you have now as we, as we move toward that, talking about it, it's a resource designed for the whole church and it's about the recovery. It's called Profoundly Christian, distinctly Methodist talk. Just give us the, the vision.

A (19:23)

Yeah. Well, I think that most everything that I've done along the way in ministry has been for the local church. From serving in the local church to even working in administration of the denomination. I see my purpose is to make sure the denomination stays the servant of the local church because it doesn't work when it gets inverted. Starting the Wesley House of studies at Truitt Seminary was about serving the local church and still is, and writing this work and some others that are in the works are all about the local church being at its best. God has set the local church to be the hope of the world. It is where disciples get made. It is where the gospel is lived out in community. And so in this work, the way it came about, Jason had been asked to be the editor of the Catechism for the Global Methodist Church, which he did. When we first moved ourselves at my church, first Waco moved ourselves into the GMC, I took that catechism 77 questions. I put it into a 14 week sermon series that I titled unapologetically Christian. And what was interesting was not only was there a huge appetite in our church, but the streaming of the sermons started getting picked up in other churches and people started calling, even house churches started using that as the primary teaching as they were starting out. And so we realized there was just this hunger for the knowledge of who are we? It is, I mean, the sleeping giant woke up and said, oh, you want me to make a super important, huge once in a generation decision based on what we believe? Okay, here now what do we believe again about everything else. And so I, I, I asked Jason to Lunch. He was the newly appointed academic head for the Wesley House of Studies at Truett. And I said, hey, man, I've got this, this idea. I think it. I think it's timely in the gmc. What do you think about, you know, putting something out that would give the church from top to bottom all the way through at every level, the ability to teach what we believe, like, get to the core of it. So he was like, yeah, I'm on board. And so that, that was, that was the beginning and the purpose of the project and, and why it's structured the way it is. From the adult manual with the videos for Sunday school class, small groups to meet and work through, sermon outlines for the pastor who wants to preach it from the pulpit with some worship guides, song selections from Redeemer's praise hymnal, and then the youth version, which, you know, you know, I mean, it has been a missing piece for a long time. A really good confirmation curriculum that churches could trust and use. And so the youth version of that is written and designed in a way that it can be used in the church wide study, but it's also evergreen because kids are always getting older. And so year after year, churches can turn to kind of a trusted resource, workbook, video teaching that's scalable, because I've done that confirmation in small churches when you have two or three kids. And I've done it, you know, when I have, you know, I think 75, 80 is the most number of kids I've ever had in one year in a class of confirmation. So we try to do it scalable, all that kind of stuff. So it really does allow us to penetrate all the way through, get everybody onto the same page, and we address all 77 of those questions and how they can be answered in there.

B (23:15)

That's good. Well, let me, Let me, let me turn to a question that this is all built on, really, and I should have even started with. But the question is, why Methodist? Why Methodism? I mean, why couldn't we just sort of. That realized, you know, that was for then and it's time for something else. Why.

A (23:42)

Yeah, let me, let me say for Jason and I both, we talk about this. You, you will note that there is a reason why the title of the book Profoundly Christian, and that's where we begin, is, is the great Christian truths that are shared in common across, like, the broad spectrum of orthodoxy. We, we locate ourselves there. We don't think Methodists are like its own thing, separate and apart from the rest of the historic witness of Christianity. Um, we get into the final chapters in increasingly things that make us distinct. And I think the example we use is some people have freckles. That doesn't make them unique, but the pattern in which they appear does. So it's the distinctiveness. And so when you take all the things that, you know, Methodists have, we don't necessarily have them uniquely, but when you take them all together, it does begin to give us a distinct identity. And now I'll answer your question for myself. Why Methodism? I have come to believe that what we, what we believe about how God interacts and works in the course of human history with humanity says a lot about what we believe about Him. So, you know, theology isn't just God instructing us. It is, but it also then paints a picture of who we believe God is. And I know that Methodists don't have everything right. There's certainly going to be some things that we're like, oh, whoops, got it. But two things. One, I think Methodists are humble even in acknowledging they know there's things that we don't get right. And we're willing to be. We're willing to be shown if we're wrong and to adapt and say, okay, that's a more faithful expression of Christian orthodoxy. We can do that. But for me, the idea that God leads from his love, from his grace, that his, as Wesley would tell us, you know, the atonement is. Is universal, meaning that not that everyone is saved, but that everyone can be that. That. That Jesus's sacrifice is sufficient for all who would profess with their mouth and believe in their heart. That says to me a lot about who God is and is the God, in fact, that I think is revealed in Scripture. And so the nuances matter. The rest of the practices of Methodism that come out from those beliefs, how we practice communion or baptism or the way we express grace and, you know, the nature of salvation and being lived out in relationship, all of that comes from that fundamental understanding, the personhood of God. But I think it's really good news for people, which is why Methodism, for me.

B (27:00)

Yeah. Well, yeah. What's the old saying? Methodism believes that all can be saved, all can know that they are saved and all can be saved. Completely. Yeah, to the uttermost. It's not just barely. It's not just limping across the finish line. You, you, you mentioned a term early in the conversation I want to come back to, and this, this kind of gets into what is Methodism. But you said grand deposit. What is that?

A (27:42)

Yeah, I think the grand deposit of Methodism that we have to share is a robust understanding of grace, of the nature of grace, of its prolific effect on human heart and life and that, that, that by that same grace we can, as you say, experience our full salvation, not what's the minimum necessary to get across the finish line. As if eternity doesn't start the minute we profess faith in Jesus Christ that the idea that God desires us to experience the full measure of his love for us and from us to him and to others, that is the most liberating force in the world. And I think that Methodists have the ability to share that in winsome ways that has great impact effect on people. Now again, you know, I might I joke with people like the difference between Methodists and some other Christians is we're not going to be surprised to see other Christians in heaven. So I'm not saying we think we have it the only way. I just think we have an incredibly winsome effective way of sharing eternal life and grace found in Christ with others. And it's worth it, it's worth representing being proud of. I think that's another thing JD that right now is happening with the Global Methodist Church. People aren't like, you know, oh, where do you go to church? Oh I go to first. This is church. You know, like I'm Methodist, you know, we, this is what we believe. I think people are excited to be a part of the movement of God in, in, in the Methodist Church. And I think it comes back to knowing that when we, when we share that with others, we truly believe in our heart that God intends for their name to be written in the book of life. And it's just awaiting their response versus you know, we're sharing this with you, but the truth is you may or may not have already been pre selected to not be included. So you know, good luck with that. To me that this is what I, what I mean by it says something about who God is. Right. And I think that our portrait of God aligns cleaves very closely with, with scripture and is compelling.

B (30:19)

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Well, so profound, profoundly Christian. That's what we want, isn't it? That's what we want. We want for people to become profoundly Christian, not just sort of checking boxes. Not just, yeah, I believe that, I believe that, I believe that. But like they are, like Wesley would say, seized by a greater affection that that grace actually has come into your life in Jesus Christ and displaced sin, that the love of God actually displaces the sin of us and that the wholeness of Jesus actually displaces the brokenness of us and that we can actually become the persons that God imagined when he first imaged us, that that's possible and that it doesn't come from just trying harder to do more, to be better. It's not a self improvement program. It's transformation, which is the notion that, you know, not if it is to be, it's up to me, but if it is to be, it's up to Jesus. And I'm participating in this, but he's leading the process. So this is something this, this, this resource. Profoundly Christian, distinctly Methodist. It's really designed as a, almost like introductory software for a brand new operating system. Isn't.

A (32:12)

Is. And I, and I think that's timely for where we're at. I also think, you know how when the whole system shuts down, you get the blue screen of death on your computer. You know what you have to do? Reboot, factory reset, unplug, unplug factory reset. Take down all the junk that's been piled up on top, all the apps you've put on all, all of that, and reboot it at the foundational level. And so I think it's probably good practice that from time to time we come back to our foundation, say, okay, what are the core things that I truly believe? They affect our worldview, they affect how we make our decisions, how we spend our money, how we spend our time, how we vote at the polls, like all of these things. And over time we accumulate a lot of junk on top of the operating system until it starts to fizzle out, until blue screen death. And so I, I think it is, I mean, I think it's foundational software, but I also think it is like what we come back to and need to come back to every generation and say, okay, what do we believe and why? And what are those branches that have grown that need to be pruned if we want to be fruitful for Christ? So I think, I think it's helpful, I've seen it to be helpful in those ways.

B (33:49)

Yeah, it's kind of like we're ice cream, right? There's all there is ice cream. There's bluebell ice cream. It's at the core of every flavor they got, but then they got flavors.

A (34:03)

That's Texas. Gift to the world, by the way, One of many.

B (34:06)

What's your favorite?

A (34:07)

One of the best.

B (34:08)

I was going to go Baskin Robbins or Jenny's, but I'm like, no, I'm going Blue Bell today. What's your favorite Blue Bell ice cream, Ryan?

A (34:18)

Homemade vanilla. I mean, it's just, it's bam.

B (34:22)

You know, straight up vanilla.

A (34:24)

Straight up.

B (34:25)

What would be the Methodist flavor? It can't be homemade vanilla because that's the profoundly Christian part. But you raise a point. I mean, John Wesley, you know, he, he writes this famously, writes this book called the Character of a Methodist. And all he did in that little tract, it's a sermon. We made it a tract at Seedbed. But he just talked about what it means to be a, to be profoundly Christian. Right.

A (34:51)

And that's the thing, isn't it, J.D. first of all, say, like, what, homemade vanilla? Yeah. In our, in our former, I was better. In our, in our former, I would say our, our flavor was rocky road. But now we're moving into just like, bam. Here's the, here's the base for it all. But I think that that's right. So, like, I think of, I want to be profoundly Christian. I speak with a Methodist accent, but I don't speak another language. This. It's not another language. It's not another system. Like, we tell people coming through, they're like, well, do you know the Wesleyan Way of Salvation? You know, the board of ministry or interviewing people, we're like, as long as they know the way of salvation, they can learn. Wesleyan Way.

B (35:34)

Yeah. By grace through faith.

A (35:35)

Right? It is. You know, Methodists believe in the way of salvation through Christ, the Roman Road. That's it. Now, there's some, you know, Wesleyan tracks you can follow down the Roman Road, but it's not a different road. It's the same road. And so, yeah, I mean, I think it's just we speak profoundly Christian with a distinctly Methodist accent that I think helps unlock the profoundly Christian witness for people.

B (36:03)

Yeah, well put. Well, Ryan, thank you. Thanks for, for all that you're doing in the church. Thanks for your work on this particular resource. That is definitely ringing the bell.

A (36:19)

It's.

B (36:20)

We hear a lot about, people are talking about it. It's helping people, it's helping churches, it's helping kids. And so we're going to put all the information down in the, in the, in the, the notes so people can find it and get it and preview it. We got ways you can preview it, so, yeah, we appreciate it. Any, any, any closing words from you for, for the Soar Nation out here?

A (36:53)

Well, I, I must say hello to my mom, Coy. Coy, my friend and your number one listener. I didn't tell her I was going to be on I just wanted her to be surprised one day. So, mom, when you get to the episode, I love you. Thanks for being a sewer. My mom was the first sower in my life. J.D.

B (37:15)

Wow. Well, yeah, I've gotten to know your mother. I didn't meet her through you. I met her because she started listening to the wake up call.

A (37:24)

Listen. She and my dad, Mike, they come, they come to new room, have traveled. They listen. Just. Your ministry has not only shaped my life, but my family's life, J.D. which is why I always will do anything you ask. So I'm grateful for you. Grateful for Seedbed and the work. The team there is just, I mean, so delightful to work with. And as far as the resource goes, I just say nobody writes books to make money, at least in our line of work. But here's what it's for again, it's for the church. And so if as authors, there's things that Jason and I can do to help make it work in your church. I do zoom meetings with Sunday school classes and record videos for churches that want to do it as a churchwide study. Just because we think it is helping the GMC know and own its identity. And really more broad methodism, we're seeing it show up in even, you know, kind of more broadly Methodist churches. We just want to see people know what they believe and why so that they can live into the fullness of their own salvation. To, To. To. To. To be that light and witness to the life they live. And we know that's the seed you're sowing. And that is what is creating. I'll finish here. Cause this is my favorite thing to talk about. I told you in 2004, there were those of us who were praying for a great awakening. And we had studied in seminary, the great Awakenings in the US and stuff, and we prayed too small. That was not what God's intent was. God's intent was a global awakening. The GMC now has more than 8,000 churches with significant numbers still piling in. We will be a global majority church within a few more years. And what God is doing is he is awakening this global giant to make disciples and spread scriptural holiness. And Seedbed is feeding the giant. And so I'm grateful for you guys. J.D.

B (39:39)

That'S so good. Ryan, thanks. That's a great way to end Great awakening, Lord. And it's one person is person by person by person, isn't it? Well, thank you for joining us on this conversation. Wake up call conversation. And with Ryan Barnett. And yeah, just check the notes, and we're looking forward to what's next. And we'll see you on the field.