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- [00:01]
A
Walker and Dunlop brings you insights for life. Unique perspectives from impactful leaders. This is the walker webcast with willie walker. Welcome to another Walker webcast. It is my honor, pleasure and privilege to have Andrei Shevchenko join me today to talk about soccer, to talk about Ukraine, and to talk about his role as one of the clearly one of the most significant sports figures in Ukrainian history, as well as someone who played a very large role in European soccer, mostly in the decade from 2000 to 2010, and then his role subsequently running both the Ukrainian national football team as well as the Ukrainian Football Federation, which he now chairs. Andriy, first of all, welcome and it's very nice to see you and have you.
- [01:25]
B
Thank you so much. It's great to meet you too, William.
- [01:28]
A
Just fantastic. And I'm very thankful of our mutual friend Colin Coleman, who works with me at Walker and Dunlop for introducing us and making this conversation happen. Let me do a quick bio, Andre, so that people know who you are. Clearly, football fans around the world, soccer fans around the world know exactly who you are. But many of our listeners here in the United States who might be in the commercial real estate world and might not be the follower of football that many are, might not exactly know how significant a figure you are in the world of football. Adrishevchenko is one of the most accomplished figures in Ukrainian sports history. A former striker for Dynamo Kiev, AC Milan and Chelsea, he won the 2004 Ballon d'Or and remains Ukraine's all time leading international goal scorer. Following his playing career, he became head coach of the Ukrainian national team, later serving as a humanitarian ambassador for Ukraine and in 2024 was elected President of the Ukrainian association of Football, the uaf. Widely regarded as one of the greatest strikers of his generation, Shevchenko scored more than 300 career goals and became an icon at AC Milan where he won the UEFA Championships, League Series, A title and numerous individual honors. He is a member of the AC Milan hall of Fame and author of My Life, My Football. Andrey, let's start with the World Cup 2026 because you and I just both watched the number one seed France fall to Spain doing this call very late at night over in Europe after watching the game. First of all, thank you for staying up so late, but the lion of France falls to Spain. What was your take on the game this evening?
- [03:28]
B
First of all, thank you so much for nice introduction and I feel very proud about my career and about game tonight. I think the Spain plays some unbelievable football and obviously the France is very strong individual players, but In a way, how Spain play like team today. It's incredible against such a strong opponent like France. And then obviously I expect some something more from the France better reaction after first first half, but didn't come very well. And something was missing during the game. And I think we have to give the credit to the Spanish team and. And the coach, they he prepared the game very well against France and the spirit inside of the team started from the first minute and in the end of the match I saw that how much they was preparing and ready for the game. And then the part they have such a strong individual players also, but they play incredible game like game today, like team.
- [05:08]
A
And did you think that that kick that turned into the first penalty shot, that turned in the first Spain goal was actually a foul that was worthy of the penalty shot?
- [05:21]
B
Definitely, yeah. Because it's a clear touch. I think, you know, this moment is happened during the games when defender lost little bit moment. He didn't he lose the orientation and then he didn't see where it's exactly striker behind him and then decide to clear the ball with the kick. And it was a good anticipation from the striker. And then for me is 100% penalty, I think is a good decision from the referee.
- [06:00]
A
Yeah. And out of at the end of the game when France had the free kick from just outside of the zone with, I don't know, four or five minutes left. So it was sort of a must goal to potentially get to being able to score another one to tie it. Mbappe, his shot went sailing over the top of the crossbar. And as I looked at that shot, I thought the equivalent to my uneducated view was that that was like having a putt at the end of the masters that you leave short. In other words, because he sailed it over the crossbar, there was no ability to either force the goalie to make a save or get a rebound off of a potential save. And that if you're going to do that kind of a shot, you must keep it down. Even if the goalie saves it outright, you at least have a chance for a second shot. Is that a fair way of looking at that or is that unfair because there are people in front of him and he's got to lift the ball at such. I mean, you've done this shot a thousand times. So the question there is, is it too much to say he should have kept it, if you will, in play like a putt going back past the past the hole or was the way he shot it, he has to go to Try and make it in the corner and it might fly high, high by a foot.
- [07:20]
B
You you actually right. Because I think the football is depends from all this sport depends from momentum. Okay. And then this is the last chance for the front team to come back. Maybe try to come back. And then I think in that point, in my point I will always try to make the the target. You know, because if you put the ball in in the target anything could happen. You know, the goalkeeper can make mistakes. Some reflection it could be. But I don't think is the night of the France. You know, since the first minutes started, Spain was always ahead with any component in the game. They better play like team there was I think for sure they won more individual battles. They control ball better. They have a midfielder position today way better than France. They played between the line much better. And I think Spain today deserve to win. And the way how they play of course during the matches France have a chance to come back. And this is one of the chances because we know that individual players make a huge difference during the games. And Amber and Papa is a world class player, is a leader of the team as a capitan and But I think is is not his time. I think the moment is been lost during the game.
- [09:26]
A
And when you talk about momentum. Let's rewind the clock for a moment and we'll kind of. If it's okay with you, we'll go kind of back and forth between this year's and some of your memories from when you played.
- [09:39]
B
But the.
- [09:40]
A
In the. In the Champions league final in 2005, AC Milan was up against Liverpool 3 nothing after the first half. And then in the second half the momentum changed significantly as you just said. And I've heard you talk about going back and watching the tapes of that game over and over and over again. Almost. Almost to punish yourself what you played enough. Everyone kind of wants to know what's that moment? What's that spark? What makes it so the momentum changes because if you could identify it, everyone would do it. No. And so we all sit there and say what's that moment where it starts to go? Is there anything in that second half against Liverpool that something happened that allowed them to turn the momentum in the game? Or was it just sort of a cumulative effect that played out for the second half to allow them to tie it and then take it to penalty kicks afterwards?
- [10:41]
B
I think it's exactly what happened in that game. It was a six minutes where is we lost little bit control of the game. And I think the big part of this during that game the play defense because Liverpool fans even was a team was 3 nil down. It still believe they was cheering. They encourage the team, they support team. And I think in that moment, you know the famous phrase and you never walk alone in anfield. You know, it's something to really help the players to believe that they will come back and somehow, you know. And then I think that we lost control of the game for six moments, six minutes. And then Liverpool come back from three nil down to free free. And then it's. It's another game started from them. And then again momentum. We was talking about IC Milan in that after creates so many chances that we could score again 2, 3, goal and then finish the game winning. But this momentum, it clearly showed that whatever we've been trying, it's something click. You know, it's quite difficult to explain it, but I remember in the last second have clear chance to score the goal. And then it was a double save from the Dudek. And then of course after the game, even right now, when I see that moment, I could still think what I could do better. In that moment, I will change something.
- [12:55]
A
I find that to be really interesting, Andrey, in the sense that you are the star of the team. You were given the ball for the last kick and everyone knew that they were giving. The coach was giving you the fifth shot because you were the best player. And yet I've heard you in other interviews say that you still replay that all the time, that you still wish you'd done better. And I can understand the core feeling of saying, yeah, I mean, I wish I'd done a better job. Yet at the same time it feels to some degree as if it. As if it haunts you, if it's something that you wish you didn't have to remember about. And. And as someone who is a. A leader of a company, if we do well, I clearly feel great that we've done well. If we do poorly, I have to take responsibility for us doing poorly. And yet at the same time, that's the responsibility I take as the leader of the company. And I. I'm. I think about you asking for the ball in 2003, when you won the Champions League and the coach wanted you to shoot second and you said, no, I want to go fifth. And that's you stepping in and saying, I want the final shot. And you made the final shot and you won the Champions League. And what an incredible exuberant moment. But I find it interesting that you still think back on the 2005 with this. The word in Spanish is vergiienza. But this feeling of you wish you'd done better. I understand you wish you'd done better, but not to the point of you were given the opportunity, you earned the opportunity.
- [14:29]
B
Yeah, it's true. Yeah. We. You know, you in that moment, you always think about what. What is best solution could be for you. Because the penalty. Penalty shooting is quite difficult moment is very unusual for the football. Because free kick or something, it's okay. But penalty should the ball is firm, is not moving. And then it's. It's only you and goalkeeper. And then of course, theoretically, you have a lot more chances to score that goalkeeper save that ball. But in reality, we actually come in 50. 50 chances. Okay. And it's kind of the psychological moment between is goalkeeper and you or yourself. Mostly I've said, because when you go to take the penalty, that 15, 50 yards, 70 yards walk from center to the penalty shoot. It's so many thought is going on in your head. You know, how I can shoot or go right or go left, or I wait the goalkeeper, you know. And here do you hear the fans
- [15:55]
A
during that period of time, Andre. Or is that all blacked out?
- [15:58]
B
No, it's all black. You know, it's. It's something what we used to dealing with. You know, when you play in a big stage like that, I think not affected you. You know, you. You. We are professional. We know our job is mostly because we. We try to bring the memory, you know, from information. What we know. Example, if I was a penalty shooter from to IC Milan. And I always ask before the game some tape from goalkeepers. How. What he does during the penalty, he's moving or what move he does to. To understand better what the decision I have to make it. You know. And look beauty of this sport. Because it's not the numbers like re. We talk about the business, okay? Business is practical, you know, it's 90%. Of course the right decision you have to make. You have to hire right people around you. You have to make company going with a good atmosphere, with some positive energy. But 90% of your success is in numbers. Okay? Football exists. Numbers also is important because now is new technology brings a lot of information. But food beauty of this sport. Because anything could happen in the last second. You know, is emotional. We can control that. Emotional.
- [17:49]
A
Yeah.
- [17:50]
B
You know, and then I don't know any players football players in the world who never miss the penalty.
- [17:58]
A
Yeah, sure, sure. And on that one of the things that I thought I heard you say that I thought was very interesting was in the 2003 penalty shot you had in your mind what you were going to do and you stuck to it. Whereas in the 2005 penalty shot you had something in your mind and you changed your mind as you went to take the shot.
- [18:18]
B
Exactly. Yeah.
- [18:19]
A
And so I think about that as it relates to sort of being disciplined about the thought of you looked at the keeper in 2005 and you switched your strategy rather than in 2003. You said I I'm going lower right and the goalie jumps to the left and boom. You win the Champions League.
- [18:34]
B
Yeah it's true. That was my first Champions League what I won. I was a clear decision from that because I was it's actually that walk what I we talk about. I was all all that 50 hours would I walk? And I always repeat one things don't change your decision, don't change your decision. You know just clear your mind, you know what you have to do. Very similar situation in 2005. I was going there. I know how I want to kick but it's something click in my head because I remember a couple years ago or year ago I was missed the penalty I hit the post and then just because I opened a little bit too much my right feet and then I was in that moment I was thinking about just make sure you don't open too much, you know And I actually close and then ball was going in the middle and then goalkeeper was moving right they have a chance to stop his feet and then just save the penalty. I mean it's always. You know it depends from we're all different, you know. In my mind I need to information. I like work with information. I was more information coming in my head. I like to imagination. I like to figure it out what is the best for me in that moment what I should do it. I kind of go through every time to my games I was like to game finish come back to my home, just take the tapes sit and then look how team plays. What I can do better for the team in my movement. What I can do better in my movement individual. What strings I should work to get better. It's kind of stuff what I was loved to do it.
- [20:51]
A
And you've played in all the great stadiums of the world. You mentioned a moment ago that the Liverpool fans that day in the Champions League final were a huge part of Liverpool coming back. What's the memory you have of walking into a stadium either your own playing at AC Milan or Chelsea or in Kiev or playing in an Opposing stadium where all of a sudden you said whoa, this is the. The feeling is so overwhelming of either supporting you or. Or for the other team that you said. I mean in Bernabeu I can only imagine that that stadium is an incredible stadium to play in. But it. What was the stadium that you sort of said? This is a totally different experience.
- [21:37]
B
I've said San is very special stadium because it's some crazy history been. Happen and then it's crazy history work. Always well for the Milan, you know, because the. The. The fans when they go into the stadium, they always believe that this is special atmosphere, is a special stadium. And then they have a social belief in the players and in. In the team that San Siro is one of the tougher stadium to play. 100% I will put their Anfield. Anfield is special. I say Santiago Bernabeu no camp. Probably Old Trafford, Probably Wembley. I had the chance to play an old Wembley before they reconstruction of the.
- [22:36]
A
What's that like to play in front of 110,000 fans? I just. I can't imagine what it's like to be on a field with 110,000 people around you.
- [22:44]
B
No, it's special because in some stadium when you go and you can even hear your partners because it's so loud and then uh. It's. It's a. It's extra motivation for me some player get little bit. I'm not saying scared. They did not feel comfortable. But some players, big players that need this atmosphere to. Okay, this is. This is my home, you know, this is. But that's. It belong to me.
- [23:18]
A
But that's different from your personality on a day to day basis. So your personality is different as actually quite some not necessarily shy but you're. You're not a. You don't step into a room and take up the room. You have a more reserved personality yet you get on the football pitch and you become this lion. Why are there two sides to Andrey?
- [23:40]
B
Because it's opportunity. I can see it's something what I. When I was very young, I was always dreaming to play in front of big stage because back to Ukraine. Ukraine is a big football country and I grow up watching Dinamokiev as my local team. But very, very big team in international level too. And then. I become big fans of Dinamochia and very young age. And then going to the stadium with 80,000 people. And then I was dreaming to have a chance to one day to become professional football players and playing in front of all crowd. I think we talked about leadership and personality. I know Some quiet leaders and some loud leaders. Loud leaders like to talk. Loud leaders love to leading teams with some speeches or some emotional driving speech to the teams. But also is quiet leaders who comet does the work on the pitch. And then it's very important that team recognize these leaders.
- [25:17]
A
And when you were at AC Milan, the team was obviously owned by Silvio Berlusconi. And while you were there, he was also prime minister of the country. What was it like to have the prime minister as the owner of your football team?
- [25:34]
B
Is awesome. I may. You know the. But it's. Be honest is you Italy. Football in Italy is. Is more than religion, you know. And then just one quick thing if I can.
- [25:47]
A
I was with a friend of mine from Argentina on Sunday watching the game and I turned to him and I said, so tell me your feeling of Messi versus Maradona. And he goes, oh, facilitate. And he goes. He goes Messi Dios. And Maradona. And I thought it was so great that he put Maradona above God. It was just a wonderful moment. But anyway, sorry I jumped in there, but you were saying the Italians take soccer so personally.
- [26:17]
B
Yeah. Italian is live for the. For the game, for the football game. It's something very special. And to have Berlusconi, of course is a charismatic leaders. He loves football. He did so many great things for the Milan. And then I think the success of the Milan is at. It's because the Berlusconi was look after the team. You know, it's he. He want to really want the best player playing for the IC Milan. And it was not issue for IC Milan to buy the best player in the world. Milan is always the compete with the best teams. He was one of the best team that time. And then I think the Berlusconi did everything that Milan it was in the top of the world club.
- [27:22]
A
In your first year, AC Milan, the then prime minister and owner of the team Berlusconi made a bet with you that if you could score 24 goals in the season, that he would send you out on a large yacht. First of all, was it his yacht that he was saying he would send you out on or was he just going to send you out on a yacht?
- [27:39]
B
No, he was. This yacht they actually is offering his house to is a Villa Certosa. I think so is in. In Sardinia is very beautiful home. And yeah, we have a bet with him. And I scored 23 goals. Right.
- [28:01]
A
And I was. You think he would have sent you out on a bigger yacht had you gotten 24 because he sent you out with 23. So I was just wondering if maybe. No.
- [28:09]
B
Yeah, I scored 23 goals. So I become the. The golf the score most gold in that season. And he was very generous. He said even if you scored 23, the bet was 24, but you can have everything. You know, I mean, I stay for a week in his villa, I took my teammates and, you know, he's just very generous person. You know, he loves. He loved football, he loves athletes, he loves individual. And it makes him very special honor.
- [28:52]
A
And in your second year at AC Milan, Real Madrid came knocking on the door and tried to pull you across to Real Madrid. You decided not to go and to stay at AC Milan. But then a number of years later, you were transferred to Chelsea for at that time, the highest transfer fee ever paid in professional football. I guess. First, any regrets on not going to Real Madrid and then second, on the transfer to Chelsea and what that was like.
- [29:26]
B
I don't have any regrets to not going to Real Madrid because in that time I feel like when the offer come to move, I feel I didn't finish my story in IC Milan. And I was attached to the fans and I feel like I really want to stay there and win the Champions League or make the history of the club. And then of course, Real Madrid is a special club. It's. It's a history of the football. And at that time, it's big rivality between Spain and Italy still Real Madrid, Milan, and it's one of the club with every. Everyone dreaming to play. And I, I also, I was growing up, I saw the. The Real Madrid, the best teams, but I didn't think too much because I feel like I want to do the history in IC Milan. And then my move to Chelsea is. It's one of the period where is I, I, I start to figure it out that I was in the end of my. Not in the end of my career, but it was a period where is, oh, I have to make the move or stay. And I decide to move to Chelsea because I want to have different experience and then. But the history being done, you know, we won the Champions League, we won the league in Italy. It's something what I left what I'm very proud about. And my relationship with the fans and with the club has always been great. I just. My personal decision was try something different. And yeah, I joined to Chelsea. Yeah.
- [31:50]
A
And in 2004, you win the Ballon d'. Or. To those listeners who aren't big soccer fans, that's the MVP Trophy for European soccer. It's the best soccer player in the world that year. Thierry Henry and Ronaldinho, two household names along with yourself, had great seasons and were in the running for it. And you won the Ballon d'.
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B
Or.
- [32:16]
A
When you actually win that, Andre, how do. How do they. Is there a ceremony or do they just call you one day and say you won it? How does that work? When we give out things like MVP for the super bowl or a Heisman Trophy, which we give out for college football, they have a big awards ceremony. Do they have awards ceremony or they just call you up and say you won it?
- [32:37]
B
No, no, it's award ceremony. And then Paris is a. Is a special, special day. And that was very cool. I mean again, that was my dream come true. When I grew up in Ukraine, I had two Ukrainian players who won the Palonidor before the mid. I was Igor Belanovi, Oleg Blahin, he both from Ukraine. And then I was third one. And I was very proud. I'm proud for my country, I'm proud for myself because the boy born in Ukraine come play to IC Milan. And I really want to thank you again my teammates, coaches who in that time was playing and leading the team. Carlo Ancelotti was coach. And then so many my great teammates, they helped me a lot to first of all to believe in myself. I think the IC Milan was my second club. And that was a great group of the people. Not just great football players. That was a great people, the great human being, very intelligent, all very successful people. Great leading leadership. Anyone could be a great leader in the pitch and was important leaders like Paolo Maldini as an example for many generation. And yeah, for me it was some significant moment in my career. Something what I always dreaming to win and finally I have a chance. And I think the big success was my game for the IC Milan, my performance for IC Mil, but also for national team. And that year we did a very good run in the group stage to qualify for the World cup. And we qualified 2006 World Cup. It's only World cup with Ukraine been qualified so far.
- [35:02]
A
You went to the quarters?
- [35:04]
B
Yeah, we went to the quarters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We. We kind of first time we qualified. We did so well and is a history. But that was a good, good group of the people, like real fighters. You know, we. That was a good group. We. We stuck together like we have a good game plan of what we have to do. And then I think we did. The whole country was very proud. Is. Is one of the important moment in history not Only sport, history, but something what the people united, Ukrainian people united around big event.
- [35:57]
A
And let's shift for a moment, if we can, back to, well, not back to, but to the Ukraine war against Russia today and get your thoughts on that. I first of all want to be very clear that you are not engaged as a government official and yet you're obviously a very, very noteworthy person and have access to both the president and others inside of Ukraine and your mother still lives in Kiev, is that correct?
- [36:26]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My mother and sister still there, yeah.
- [36:30]
A
And I remember listening to a podcast you did right when the conflict broke out. And I think that at that time it was very clear in your comments that the sense was here is Russia with such a huge military and sort of a. Such a bigger potential rival that it was going to either be mass destruction or over quite quickly. And there was a big question about pulling your mother and your sister out because the thought was that Kyiv would get leveled, quite honestly, and that there was going to be a mass destruction. And here we are several years later and the fight is still going on. And the fight is actually going on to a degree that many are not only surprised, but just amazed at the way that Ukraine has been able to respond to the Russian threat. Comment andriy on sort of, as you look at what's happened up until now, what's been the key to that success? Has it been the technology? Has it been the leadership? Or has it been sort of the heart and soul of the Ukrainian people or a combination of all?
- [37:41]
B
I think mostly combination of all. I think first of all, that Ukrainian people is incredible. And you're absolutely right because we're not only showing the resilience like in the beginning, we keep showing the world we can fight, but also we're showing some significant progress in every aspect. First of all, we develop some technology, drone technology that we can defend almost ourselves from. Any drones attack, Russian drones attack, of course, we show all leaders and in the world that we capable to defend ourselves. You know, we capable not only defend, we capable to progress in any new innovation in the war. We're capable to resist, but not only resistance. Now we start to showing that we could not only defense, we can progress. And obviously that leadership of Zielinski is very important. Yeah, he's showing.
- [39:12]
A
What's he like as a person? You obviously know him quite well. What's he like?
- [39:17]
B
Look, he's. I think it's a good leadership. It's showing that in the beginning people didn't take him serious, but during this war he showed that he capable to handle incredible pressure. And then I think he make some right decision. Especially in a crucial moment. He capable to bring the right people on the board and then trust them. They can really shape this war in a different direction. And then obviously the main plan is stop the war right now and sit in the table and have a negotiation. This is what in the last couple years every leader in the world tried to reach this agreement between two country. But in the point the country have to live during the war. And then Ukrainian people showing incredible resilience. But also showing that we can not only we can survive, but we can capable to have economy inside what also help and feed the There are people and army. We capable to during the sport events. During all this time our athlete perform our football teams. Regarding my work, we're also doing all the competition inside of the country. We capable to send our young generation to compete. And with such a difficult condition and all this, they really bring this situation bring Ukrainian people together. And I don't know for how long this war is going to be, but I'm sure that all the times I think they will show the resilience and we show there's some different aspect of our talented people to bring something interesting and different in the moment when we need.
- [42:19]
A
It's amazing. My understanding is that you all are launching about 10,000 drones a day, which is just. And you're making 8 million a year. And I guess right now the real focus seems to be on Crimea and that the attack that Ukraine is putting on Crimea right now to knock out both the electric grid as well as the gas supply. If for whatever reason Ukraine was able to to take and dislodge Crimea. Because Crimea was the first move by Putin to expand back towards the former Soviet Union. A turn of that would be very, very symbolic to this conflict of sort of turning the tide back towards Ukraine and potentially getting Russia to the table. Is my read on that Andriy correct?
- [43:13]
B
Yeah, you're absolutely correct. Because we need to show the Russian that we can not only defense. We could do some mission. And then the final touches everything like you said, should be bring Russia to the table to sit and talk about. Because is a final mission to every war finish with the peace talk. And then quicker as possible that happen. It have to be a right condition for Ukraine to sit in a table and talk. And also I think that it's very important that all the leaders in the world they understand that Ukraine deserves that that we have to be in the right condition. To sit in table. Yeah.
- [44:12]
A
And I would also add the President Trump allowing for the building of Patriot missiles in Ukraine. There are only two other countries in the world that have that what I would call a licensing agreement for technology and that's Japan and Germany. And so giving Ukraine the ability to build Patriot missile systems is a big move that President Trump did last week. My understanding is it's going to take probably about two years to get that manufacturing capability up and going in Ukraine. But if Ukraine can get going towards that and obviously you now have the right to do it, that could be a real game changer in your defense.
- [44:56]
B
Yeah, for sure. 100%. Yeah. I don't know how long it takes to make built all this factory everything. But I think the more important fact that President Trump start to trust Ukrainian people is start to believe that is a very positive move for us that America start to trust to Ukraine. And then because this kind of the technology if you share with someone you have to really trust about because it's very unique technology about the Patriot system is only petrol system could shoot down the ballistic rockets.
- [45:44]
A
Yeah. Talk for a moment Andre, about both the World cup seem to be saying that they were thinking about letting Russia play in the next World cup which was a topic that you jumped on immediately and went and met with the head of FIFA and put down your foot and said hold it, you can't do that. But then the Olympic International Olympic Committee just ruled to basically allow Russia to come and participate in the 2028 Olympics. How important is the messaging of allowing Russia to come to the 2028 Olympics or play in the 2030 World cup as it relates to them being the aggressor against Ukraine and and these international sports leagues saying well, we're not going to think about the geopolitical impact of it. We're just going to let them play sports.
- [46:37]
B
I absolutely agree with you. I think it's the wrong decision from Olympic Committee. But they make this decision and I think the decision is every federation because there's so many different federation they could decide what they should do probably. You know and then. I'm sure that football is not ready for integrate Russia. And then I'm sure the sport is not ready because you can Russia use the sport to legalize this action. You know, we know this sport it have. We don't like to speak about political side but in the end sport is the big influence in the relationship of the people. If you let country who invited not just Ukraine that some country and then this war is black and White. It's very understandable the action what the Russia did against Ukraine. And then they tried to use whole history to make the little bit. You know joke with the card to make. But this war is very clear black and white. And then my opinion is their own decision. We should put the pressure on on Russian government and to citizen table and bring the peace to the world. And after that we can talk about reintegration of Russia. But is the next step. And then obviously I'm going to walk up and then I sure we're going to have a conversation about this too. And I have all my cards to to explain it that this is not the time to reintegrate the Russia back to football.
- [48:57]
A
Are you gonna. Are you going to the finals on Sunday in New York?
- [49:00]
B
Yeah yeah. Yeah. I can miss. I know is is one of the for me that one of the best teams already in the final and we're gonna wait a game for tomorrow. And who gonna be second one. England or Argentina. So a.
- [49:21]
A
Who do you think wins tomorrow? Argentina. England. And then if it. Whichever one of those you think is going to win. What happens on Sunday against Spain it's quite.
- [49:29]
B
It's. I don't. I can. I can speak about that. It's. It's the both game gonna be very close. I think. You know. I think England very strong and Tuchel is a very good coach. He brought the squad. He left some very good talent out from the team. But he defend his selection. He defends his choice very well. He said he's going not for the talent. He's going for the team. He's going for the solid group of the players who is ready to and make this working for the result. And then I think the England been very pragmatic team. Maybe it's not the best playing football team but they get their great result. And then gammick against Norway they defend very well. They especially in in the last 20 minutes they come out with some right substitution. They bring some energy inside of the pitch. They. They close very well center and size then is not allowed to Norway to crossing that easy like normally they they could create the chances for the goal. In Argentina we talk about best player in the whole time. Leo Messi is. It's something like. I never see Pele playing but I saw Maradona and Leo Messi. It's is a free idols. Absolutely God is is something what make him incredibly special player.
- [51:50]
A
That's so interesting indeed I was looking at the. At the value of the rosters between the highest is France at 1.7 billion. And number two is England at I think about 1.6 billion and then Spain at 1.4 billion and then Argentina at 800 million as it relates to the contract value of, of the players on the field. So it would be interesting if, you know, if it ends up being Argentina against Spain, that you've got the two less valuable rosters playing against one another. But I think either way, either England, Spain or Spain, Argentina is going to really be one of the great. I mean it's going to be classico. It's going to be really an incredible game, I would think.
- [52:37]
B
Yeah, of course. But don't forget about because Leo Messi, his value of market value different now because his age, you know, if it's take 10 years ago, his market value could be. What do you think? One billion. Probably easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [52:59]
A
It's, it's unbelievable. It's, it's, it's quite something. And, and I will say one of the other things that I thought was interesting when I was trying to describe your career to an American audience, I sat there and said, okay, well who would he be comparable to? And one of the American football players who you're somewhat comparable to in your achievements is someone named Troy Aikman, who was the quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys. He won three Super Bowls. You went to two Champions League finals and won one. And then he won the MVP once and you won the MVP once as well. So. And one of the things that I think people forget is that the, the American, the Super bowl last year was watched on a global basis by 150 million people on Sunday, which in the United States everybody stops everything and we watch television and then a global audience comes on and watch it. But 150 million, we're going to get somewhere between 1.4 and 1.5 billion people, billion people watching the final on Sunday in New York. I mean it is 10x 10x the number of people who will watch the super bowl, which I just always thought was a fascinating number. So while your career sits there with someone like a Troy Aikman, your global brand as it relates to the people who watched you play and know who you are is just orders of magnitude. That's very hard for people in the United States to sort of get their head around.
- [54:31]
B
Yeah. But let's go to the point because the World cup is really accelerate this integration of the young generation to the soccer, to the football. It's only, you know, it have to be well run program started from the coaches because you have to bring the best coaches from the world and integrate inside of the US Program. Coaches make very big difference, and not only to the professional teams or MLS team. You have to be in early stage because coaches with the good program, with good mythology of the war can really change everything in the next 10 years. And then I'm sure the football could be potentially only top, like basketball, American football, baseball, ice hockey. Yeah, ice hockey.
- [55:34]
A
And I mean, the other thing is what happened to F1 in the United States when they did the Drive to Survive series and sort of put a face to the sport. And I think that having someone like Messi playing in the United States, albeit he's Argentine, I think the American fans, and particularly obviously the Miami fans all really feel like he is part of this league. And so as a result of it, to have the best player in the world playing here in the MLS rather than in the Premiership rather than the Bundesliga, what have you, is a. Is a huge catalyst to exactly what you're talking about.
- [56:10]
B
Yeah, I agree with you, but you already have that in the World Cup. You can multiply it again, but after that, you have to be right. Structure to come, you know, if you want to make this league the really big one. And, and you know, we talk about numbers. America loved the numbers. America loved the good fans, good solid sport with the football, have a big chance. Soccer to come, very important sport in America. And I wish it could happen in next 10, 20 years.
- [56:50]
A
Well, if it does, you and I will watch it happen.
- [56:53]
B
Yeah.
- [56:53]
A
Andre, I can't thank you enough. And it's just been a real joy. It's an honor to meet you and talk to you about your career. I hope that at some point, Colin, you and I can maybe go hit a. Hit a golf ball together, which would be a real joy. Have a great time at the game on Sunday. And just let me. If it's Ukraine, sorry, if it is Spain, Argentina, are you rooting for?
- [57:22]
B
Look, it's. It's quite difficult. I know. You know, I. I think if I,
- [57:27]
A
If I ask you, Spain, England, can you give me which one you'd be rooting for or.
- [57:30]
B
No. No, you know what? I think it could, it could happen probably. Spain, England. Yeah, it could could happen. Spain, England. Because, you know, I, I like the, the, the spirit of the England right now. You know, of course, when you plan against God, you. You never know what can happen.
- [57:53]
A
There you go. That's. To anyone who doesn't know what he's talking about. That's Maradona's hand of God goal in 86 in.
- [58:01]
B
Thanks.
- [58:03]
A
When Argentina beat England, you know what,
- [58:07]
B
that, that World cup was I watching. I was 10 years old. And then I absolutely get loving with Maradona. I mean, not for. Obviously not for the hand goal, you know, but in a way, that second goal was.
- [58:27]
A
Second goal.
- [58:28]
B
Yeah. We scored again. Yeah.
- [58:30]
A
One of the most unbelievable goals ever.
- [58:32]
B
Yeah, it's. It's something that I could never forgot in my life. And then it's. It's great memory for. And then again, you never know what could happen. You know, this is beauty of the football, because any chances, any moment game can switch in different way.
- [58:58]
A
Very much so. Andre, thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure.
- [59:03]
B
Thanks for staying for me.
- [59:04]
A
Well, thank you, everyone, for tuning in.
- [59:06]
B
Sam.