Carolyn Dewar, Senior Partner of McKinsey

The Walker Webcast – “Carolyn Dewar, Senior Partner of McKinsey: Practical Lessons from Coaching the World’s Top CEOs”

Host: Willy Walker
Guest: Carolyn Dewar, Senior Partner, McKinsey & Co.
Date: January 8, 2026

Overview

In this episode, Willy Walker sits down with Carolyn Dewar, Senior Partner at McKinsey and co-leader of their CEO Practice, to explore what distinguishes truly exceptional leadership at the highest executive levels. Drawing on her work with Fortune 100 CEOs, bestselling books ("CEO Excellence" and "CEO for All Seasons"), and decades advising leaders through transformation, Carolyn shares practical lessons on mindsets, decision-making, resilience, and managing career-defining transitions—all deeply relevant for CEOs and aspiring leaders alike.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenge and Opportunity of Modern Leadership

Volatility is the New Norm: The last few years have been turbulent, and 2026 shapes up similarly. Leaders must “separate the signal from the noise” and intentionally create space to think strategically, not just react. (03:51)
Intentional Leadership: Leaders should be unapologetic about making time for reflection, planning, and holistic integration—the “real work” of a senior leader. (04:30)
The “To Be” List: Inspired by Michael Fischer (CEO, Cincinnati Children’s), Carolyn advocates not just focusing on what to do, but on “how to be” in every meeting: “Whether you’re intentional or not, how you show up every day has a ripple effect through your organization.” – Carolyn Dewar [06:01]

2. The Six Mindsets that Distinguish the Best CEOs

Willy walks through the six mindsets from Carolyn's book “CEO Excellence”:

Set Direction & Be Bold
Align People, Prioritize the Soft Stuff
Mobilize Teams by Tapping into Human Psychology
Engage the Board and Help Create Value
Connect with Stakeholders, Focus on Long-Term Purpose
Enhance Personal Efficacy and Prioritize CEO-Exclusive Tasks

These aren’t just behaviors or habits, but ways of thinking that generate consistent high performance, cutting across industries, contexts, and organizational sizes. (08:49, 10:13)
The research focused on CEOs in the top 10% of “excess total return to shareholders,” with a methodology designed to normalize for industry and market. (10:36)

3. Public vs. Private/Founder-Led CEOs

Differences in Time Horizon & Accountability: Public boards demand a future-forward, vision-setting CEO, while private/family/PE contexts have different pressures and speed. (11:42–13:56)
Founders’ Boldness: Founders may have “more degrees of freedom,” but that comes with risk of missing necessary rigor as a company matures. (14:05)

4. Seizing the “Bold Move” Window

First Few Years Are Make or Break: “One third of CEOs don’t make it past the first three years…there is a make or break period.” – Carolyn Dewar [15:27]
Bold, Early Moves Set the Tone: Incrementalism rarely creates outperformance. “If you don’t have a win or two in your first year or two, markets and investors get impatient.” (15:26)
Learning from Andy Grove and Walmart: Leaders must periodically ask, “If I were replaced tomorrow, what radical changes would an outsider make?” (17:41)

5. Combatting Organizational Complacency

Michael Dell’s “What Would Our Competitors Do?” Exercise: Prompting leaders (regardless of scale) to reassess strategy as if they were the disruptor—an approach that can be replicated even by small teams, using tools like AI as a thought partner. (19:34, 21:50)
AI as a Leveler: Even small organizations can “challenge their thinking” by leveraging AI in creative, scenario-based ways (e.g., “board meetings” with AI-modeled business luminaries). (21:50–23:24)

6. Lessons for All Leaders (Beyond the CEO)

“99% of our research applies to any leader, whether you ever are in that corner office or not.” – Carolyn Dewar [25:07]
Aligning Talent & Culture: High-performing leaders spend more time than they expect aligning people and culture and treat “soft stuff” with engineering-level rigor. (25:07–27:09)
Mindsets Can Be Learned: Mindsets aren’t purely innate; significant career shifts and reframes can reshape perspectives. (27:34)
Purpose Over Position: “If your primary motivation is just because you want the corner office, it’s unlikely to sustain you very long.” – Carolyn Dewar [29:04]

7. Motivation, Mindset, and Followership

Using Navy SEALS as an analogy, successful leaders draw on a “deeper sense of purpose,” not just self-advancement. (31:47–32:46)
Leadership motivation varies: “It turns out in the population, we’re almost an even 20, 20, 20, 20, 20 split…impact on myself, my team, my customer, my company, and society.” – Carolyn Dewar [33:24]
Followership as Leadership Test: Look for evidence such as people following leaders to new organizations or their influence outside their own silos. “These jobs are too hard to get anything done on your own.” (34:29–36:01)

8. IQ vs EQ in Top Leaders

Most successful CEOs demonstrate both, but surprise themselves by how much time is spent on “stakeholders”—managing, motivating, and influencing people, teams, and boards. “Most of the CEOs we were talking to were spending at least half their time on managing all of that.” – Carolyn Dewar [37:42]

9. What Happens When Big Bets Go Wrong

Honest Board Relationships Are Key: The best-performing CEOs treat boards as value-adding partners early, not adversaries. Transparent communication and leveraging board expertise can ensure survival even when major moves need reversal. (39:55–42:29)
The S Curve Approach: Growth occurs in cycles; leaders must anticipate and start building the next S curve before the current one plateaus. “Doing well is actually the biggest risk because you get complacent.” (42:54–44:58)

10. Driving Ownership and Buy-In Across Organizations

Lottery Experiment: People value decisions/strategies more when they’ve contributed. “They have never found…less than five times more they have to pay those who wrote their own [lottery] number.” – CD (46:44)
Employee and stakeholder involvement is crucial for strategy execution—even if you can’t have a full democracy, participation in “how we’ll make this successful” wins engagement. (46:44–48:28)

11. Transitioning Out and Finishing Strong

Preparing for Life After CEO: Top CEOs focus on succession and institution, not personal legacy or clinging to relevance. Thoughtfulness about timing, developing successors, gracefully transitioning, and not meddling post-exit is vital. “Once you step away, it’s not your job to then be calling back into the organization…It’s a one-way phone.” – Carolyn Dewar [49:27–53:40]
The Danger of the “Boomerang CEO”: “That should not be a badge of honor that you have to come back” – Carolyn Dewar (52:56)
Outperformers Stay Longer: True outliers average 11.4 years as CEO, compared to a seven-year average, thanks to surviving the early gauntlet and maintaining momentum. (53:48–54:47)

12. On Facing Uncertainty and the Future of Work

AI & Agency: Leaders must maintain agency in shaping how technology is adopted: “AI doesn’t do anything. AI is an input…we cannot abdicate the responsibility we have of deciding how we want to leverage the benefits.” – Carolyn Dewar [57:08–58:45]
Managing Fear & Setting Vision: It’s a leader’s task to effectively use tools, not be at their mercy.

13. Leading Through Leaders

Future organizations (e.g., a $10 trillion company with millions of employees) require leaders skilled at empowering and guiding other leaders, not direct oversight.
“You’re the firm’s scarcest resource—because there’s only one of you and 24 hours in a day.” – Carolyn Dewar [59:54–61:55]
The CEO should focus on “what only the CEO can do”—integration, dot-connecting, and allocating strategic attention.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Intentional Leadership:
“As a senior leader…if you’re not creating time to step back routinely…, that’s not something to apologize for. That’s real work. That is part of your job.” – Carolyn Dewar [04:30]
On Motivation for the Corner Office:
“If your primary motivation is just because you really want the corner office, it’s likely not to sustain you for very long.” – Carolyn Dewar [29:04]
On Board Relationships:
“The goal is not to show you’ve got it all nailed and all together and show just confidence. They shared the good, the bad, and the ugly…” – Carolyn Dewar [41:08]
On Bold Moves:
“If you’re bold and wrong, you wouldn’t have ended up in our data set of high performers. … If you’re incremental, you wouldn’t have ended up in the high performing data set either.” – Carolyn Dewar [15:27]
On Succession and Legacy:
“Once you step away, it’s not your job to then be calling back into the organization two, three levels down, checking up, seeing, frankly stirring drama.” – Carolyn Dewar [52:59]

Timestamps for Important Segments

03:40–06:01: Carolyn on mindset, intentionality, and reflection
07:18–08:49: The six CEO mindsets
10:13–13:56: Public, private, and founder-led CEO differences
15:22–17:26: The urgency and risk of early bold moves
17:41–19:02: Andy Grove’s “outsider” question and its impact
19:34–23:24: Michael Dell’s “enemy at the gates” strategy; AI use for strategic sparring
27:09–29:04: On leadership mindset, learning, and sustaining motivation
31:47–33:24: Navy SEALS analogy and leadership purpose
34:29–36:01: How boards identify real “followership” in leaders
37:42: Stakeholder management and the CEO’s time
39:55–42:29: When big bets fail: lessons and survival
42:54–44:58: The S curve approach and avoiding complacency
46:44–48:28: “Lottery effect” & cultivating organization-wide buy-in
49:27–53:40: Transitioning out of the CEO role; why “boomerang CEOs” are a red flag
57:08–58:45: Facing uncertainty; agency amid AI-driven change
59:54–61:55: Leading through leaders in hyperscale organizations

Final Thoughts

Carolyn Dewar brings research-driven clarity and a dynamic, practical perspective on leadership at the top. Her advice—ranging from embracing bold (and smart) moves to shaping personal leadership mindsets, to preparing for graceful succession—offers a roadmap for leading in any organization or era. As Willy Walker notes, these are not just lessons for Fortune 500 CEOs, but “a cheat sheet…on where to spend your time and your efforts and your resources as it relates to being a great leader.” [61:55]

The Walker Webcast – “Carolyn Dewar, Senior Partner of McKinsey: Practical Lessons from Coaching the World’s Top CEOs”

Host: Willy Walker
Guest: Carolyn Dewar, Senior Partner, McKinsey & Co.
Date: January 8, 2026

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenge and Opportunity of Modern Leadership

Volatility is the New Norm: The last few years have been turbulent, and 2026 shapes up similarly. Leaders must “separate the signal from the noise” and intentionally create space to think strategically, not just react. (03:51)
Intentional Leadership: Leaders should be unapologetic about making time for reflection, planning, and holistic integration—the “real work” of a senior leader. (04:30)
The “To Be” List: Inspired by Michael Fischer (CEO, Cincinnati Children’s), Carolyn advocates not just focusing on what to do, but on “how to be” in every meeting: “Whether you’re intentional or not, how you show up every day has a ripple effect through your organization.” – Carolyn Dewar [06:01]

2. The Six Mindsets that Distinguish the Best CEOs

Willy walks through the six mindsets from Carolyn's book “CEO Excellence”:

Set Direction & Be Bold
Align People, Prioritize the Soft Stuff
Mobilize Teams by Tapping into Human Psychology
Engage the Board and Help Create Value
Connect with Stakeholders, Focus on Long-Term Purpose
Enhance Personal Efficacy and Prioritize CEO-Exclusive Tasks

These aren’t just behaviors or habits, but ways of thinking that generate consistent high performance, cutting across industries, contexts, and organizational sizes. (08:49, 10:13)
The research focused on CEOs in the top 10% of “excess total return to shareholders,” with a methodology designed to normalize for industry and market. (10:36)

3. Public vs. Private/Founder-Led CEOs

Differences in Time Horizon & Accountability: Public boards demand a future-forward, vision-setting CEO, while private/family/PE contexts have different pressures and speed. (11:42–13:56)
Founders’ Boldness: Founders may have “more degrees of freedom,” but that comes with risk of missing necessary rigor as a company matures. (14:05)

4. Seizing the “Bold Move” Window

First Few Years Are Make or Break: “One third of CEOs don’t make it past the first three years…there is a make or break period.” – Carolyn Dewar [15:27]
Bold, Early Moves Set the Tone: Incrementalism rarely creates outperformance. “If you don’t have a win or two in your first year or two, markets and investors get impatient.” (15:26)
Learning from Andy Grove and Walmart: Leaders must periodically ask, “If I were replaced tomorrow, what radical changes would an outsider make?” (17:41)

5. Combatting Organizational Complacency

Michael Dell’s “What Would Our Competitors Do?” Exercise: Prompting leaders (regardless of scale) to reassess strategy as if they were the disruptor—an approach that can be replicated even by small teams, using tools like AI as a thought partner. (19:34, 21:50)
AI as a Leveler: Even small organizations can “challenge their thinking” by leveraging AI in creative, scenario-based ways (e.g., “board meetings” with AI-modeled business luminaries). (21:50–23:24)

6. Lessons for All Leaders (Beyond the CEO)

“99% of our research applies to any leader, whether you ever are in that corner office or not.” – Carolyn Dewar [25:07]
Aligning Talent & Culture: High-performing leaders spend more time than they expect aligning people and culture and treat “soft stuff” with engineering-level rigor. (25:07–27:09)
Mindsets Can Be Learned: Mindsets aren’t purely innate; significant career shifts and reframes can reshape perspectives. (27:34)
Purpose Over Position: “If your primary motivation is just because you want the corner office, it’s unlikely to sustain you very long.” – Carolyn Dewar [29:04]

7. Motivation, Mindset, and Followership

Using Navy SEALS as an analogy, successful leaders draw on a “deeper sense of purpose,” not just self-advancement. (31:47–32:46)
Leadership motivation varies: “It turns out in the population, we’re almost an even 20, 20, 20, 20, 20 split…impact on myself, my team, my customer, my company, and society.” – Carolyn Dewar [33:24]
Followership as Leadership Test: Look for evidence such as people following leaders to new organizations or their influence outside their own silos. “These jobs are too hard to get anything done on your own.” (34:29–36:01)

8. IQ vs EQ in Top Leaders

Most successful CEOs demonstrate both, but surprise themselves by how much time is spent on “stakeholders”—managing, motivating, and influencing people, teams, and boards. “Most of the CEOs we were talking to were spending at least half their time on managing all of that.” – Carolyn Dewar [37:42]

9. What Happens When Big Bets Go Wrong

Honest Board Relationships Are Key: The best-performing CEOs treat boards as value-adding partners early, not adversaries. Transparent communication and leveraging board expertise can ensure survival even when major moves need reversal. (39:55–42:29)
The S Curve Approach: Growth occurs in cycles; leaders must anticipate and start building the next S curve before the current one plateaus. “Doing well is actually the biggest risk because you get complacent.” (42:54–44:58)

10. Driving Ownership and Buy-In Across Organizations

Lottery Experiment: People value decisions/strategies more when they’ve contributed. “They have never found…less than five times more they have to pay those who wrote their own [lottery] number.” – CD (46:44)
Employee and stakeholder involvement is crucial for strategy execution—even if you can’t have a full democracy, participation in “how we’ll make this successful” wins engagement. (46:44–48:28)

11. Transitioning Out and Finishing Strong

Preparing for Life After CEO: Top CEOs focus on succession and institution, not personal legacy or clinging to relevance. Thoughtfulness about timing, developing successors, gracefully transitioning, and not meddling post-exit is vital. “Once you step away, it’s not your job to then be calling back into the organization…It’s a one-way phone.” – Carolyn Dewar [49:27–53:40]
The Danger of the “Boomerang CEO”: “That should not be a badge of honor that you have to come back” – Carolyn Dewar (52:56)
Outperformers Stay Longer: True outliers average 11.4 years as CEO, compared to a seven-year average, thanks to surviving the early gauntlet and maintaining momentum. (53:48–54:47)

12. On Facing Uncertainty and the Future of Work

AI & Agency: Leaders must maintain agency in shaping how technology is adopted: “AI doesn’t do anything. AI is an input…we cannot abdicate the responsibility we have of deciding how we want to leverage the benefits.” – Carolyn Dewar [57:08–58:45]
Managing Fear & Setting Vision: It’s a leader’s task to effectively use tools, not be at their mercy.

13. Leading Through Leaders

Future organizations (e.g., a $10 trillion company with millions of employees) require leaders skilled at empowering and guiding other leaders, not direct oversight.
“You’re the firm’s scarcest resource—because there’s only one of you and 24 hours in a day.” – Carolyn Dewar [59:54–61:55]
The CEO should focus on “what only the CEO can do”—integration, dot-connecting, and allocating strategic attention.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Intentional Leadership:
“As a senior leader…if you’re not creating time to step back routinely…, that’s not something to apologize for. That’s real work. That is part of your job.” – Carolyn Dewar [04:30]
On Motivation for the Corner Office:
“If your primary motivation is just because you really want the corner office, it’s likely not to sustain you for very long.” – Carolyn Dewar [29:04]
On Board Relationships:
“The goal is not to show you’ve got it all nailed and all together and show just confidence. They shared the good, the bad, and the ugly…” – Carolyn Dewar [41:08]
On Bold Moves:
“If you’re bold and wrong, you wouldn’t have ended up in our data set of high performers. … If you’re incremental, you wouldn’t have ended up in the high performing data set either.” – Carolyn Dewar [15:27]
On Succession and Legacy:
“Once you step away, it’s not your job to then be calling back into the organization two, three levels down, checking up, seeing, frankly stirring drama.” – Carolyn Dewar [52:59]

Timestamps for Important Segments

03:40–06:01: Carolyn on mindset, intentionality, and reflection
07:18–08:49: The six CEO mindsets
10:13–13:56: Public, private, and founder-led CEO differences
15:22–17:26: The urgency and risk of early bold moves
17:41–19:02: Andy Grove’s “outsider” question and its impact
19:34–23:24: Michael Dell’s “enemy at the gates” strategy; AI use for strategic sparring
27:09–29:04: On leadership mindset, learning, and sustaining motivation
31:47–33:24: Navy SEALS analogy and leadership purpose
34:29–36:01: How boards identify real “followership” in leaders
37:42: Stakeholder management and the CEO’s time
39:55–42:29: When big bets fail: lessons and survival
42:54–44:58: The S curve approach and avoiding complacency
46:44–48:28: “Lottery effect” & cultivating organization-wide buy-in
49:27–53:40: Transitioning out of the CEO role; why “boomerang CEOs” are a red flag
57:08–58:45: Facing uncertainty; agency amid AI-driven change
59:54–61:55: Leading through leaders in hyperscale organizations

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Summary

The Walker Webcast – “Carolyn Dewar, Senior Partner of McKinsey: Practical Lessons from Coaching the World’s Top CEOs”

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenge and Opportunity of Modern Leadership

2. The Six Mindsets that Distinguish the Best CEOs

3. Public vs. Private/Founder-Led CEOs

4. Seizing the “Bold Move” Window

5. Combatting Organizational Complacency

6. Lessons for All Leaders (Beyond the CEO)

7. Motivation, Mindset, and Followership

8. IQ vs EQ in Top Leaders

9. What Happens When Big Bets Go Wrong

10. Driving Ownership and Buy-In Across Organizations

11. Transitioning Out and Finishing Strong

12. On Facing Uncertainty and the Future of Work

13. Leading Through Leaders

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Final Thoughts

Summary

The Walker Webcast – “Carolyn Dewar, Senior Partner of McKinsey: Practical Lessons from Coaching the World’s Top CEOs”

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenge and Opportunity of Modern Leadership

2. The Six Mindsets that Distinguish the Best CEOs

3. Public vs. Private/Founder-Led CEOs

4. Seizing the “Bold Move” Window

5. Combatting Organizational Complacency

6. Lessons for All Leaders (Beyond the CEO)

7. Motivation, Mindset, and Followership

8. IQ vs EQ in Top Leaders

9. What Happens When Big Bets Go Wrong

10. Driving Ownership and Buy-In Across Organizations

11. Transitioning Out and Finishing Strong

12. On Facing Uncertainty and the Future of Work

13. Leading Through Leaders

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Final Thoughts