The Walker Webcast with Jay Hartzell, President of SMU

Host: Willy Walker
Guest: Jay Hartzell (President, Southern Methodist University; former President, University of Texas at Austin)
Date: November 13, 2025

Overview

This episode features an engaging conversation between Willy Walker and Jay Hartzell, focusing on higher education leadership, institutional transformation, the unique opportunities and challenges at Southern Methodist University (SMU), and the evolving intersection of academia with urban life, technology, and athletics. Drawing upon Hartzell’s journey—from his upbringing in the Midwest to leading flagship universities—the discussion unpacks leadership philosophies, strategic growth, and the changing value of a college degree in the era of AI.

Jay Hartzell: Early Life, Education, and Academic Path

Finding His Path as a Young Man

Hartzell grew up in Oklahoma, lost his father at 11, and became a preacher’s kid at 13, shaping his values and ambitions.
At 16, he was still searching for direction, describing his main goals as fitting in and affording his first car (03:01).
- Quote:
  “At 16 I wanted to be cooler [...] I had a job sacking groceries, bought my first car on credit with a cosign loan from my parents because they didn’t have much money. [...] I’d like to figure out how to get more girls to go out on dates and that kind of thing.” – Hartzell (03:01)

The Pivot to Academia

After Trinity University, he aimed for financial security but was bored as a consultant. A mentor recommended a PhD path over an MBA.
Applied to several PhD programs with the guidance and support of mentors, which shaped his career trajectory (04:19).
- Quote:
  “My kind of nutshell plan was get a job, get an MBA, get rich.” – Hartzell (04:19)
  “It was never the part of the plan until that moment. And so I’m so grateful—professors who gave me advice and with the letter, professor who admitted me, she became my advisor...” – Hartzell (04:19)

Real Estate and Administrative Leadership

Real Estate as a Career Focus

Hartzell was drawn to real estate for its tangibility, academic rigor, and connection to cities.
His tenure at NYU and UT Austin combined real estate and broader finance (07:04).
- Quote:
  “I liked its tangibility. The fact that you can kind of see it in the world.” – Hartzell (07:04)

Developing Leadership

His extroverted personality and joy in catalyzing change set him apart.
Moving from faculty to leading the UT Real Estate Center was a pivotal administrative step.
- Quote:
  “If you’re an extroverted nerd, you become a dean.” – Hartzell (09:12) “I found, I thought more impact, more joy, more satisfaction out of, here’s a new opportunity for students at scale.” – Hartzell (10:12)

Hands-on Student Learning in Real Estate

UT’s real estate program was the first in the U.S. to offer students direct co-investment in private deals—a model now also at SMU.
The Folsom Institute at SMU (headed by Joseph Cahoon) continues experiential, capital-backed student investing (11:40).

Transitioning from UT Austin to SMU

The Unexpected Call to Lead UT During Crisis

Hartzell never planned to become a university president. The departure of the UT president during COVID led to his appointment (12:39).
- Quote:
  “The closest analog is the show Designated Survivor...all of a sudden, I’m going to be interim president of this massive university where I went to graduate school. [...] That’s not something I had seen coming.” – Hartzell (12:39)

Major Capital Campaigns

Launched and executed the “What Starts Here” campaign, raising $6.2B for UT, with broad impact across academics, scholarships, and athletics (14:38).

Bringing “Big Platform” Lessons to SMU

Scaling Ambition for a Smaller Institution

UT’s scale (e.g., $54B endowment) dwarfs SMU’s ($2.4B), but Hartzell sees opportunity in applying “big platform” lessons to accelerate SMU’s growth (15:02).
Adds value by introducing broader vision, operational experience, and recruiting leadership that’s “seen what great looks like.” (17:09)
- Quote:
  “Knowing what great looks like...and now having a team that has a sense of what we really want to create because we’ve been in those kinds of environments, I think is really helpful.” – Hartzell (17:09)

The Agility of a Private Urban University

SMU as “an aircraft carrier that’s easier to turn” compared to public systems.
More direct focus on academic mission, less political friction (19:45; 21:14).
- Quote:
  “UT is an aircraft carrier, it displaces a lot of water, but it’s hard to turn—and SMU is more turnable.” – Hartzell (19:45)

SMU’s Strategic Positioning and Urban Advantage

SMU as a Premier Urban University

Hartzell drives a vision to make SMU “one of the great urban private universities in America.”
Dallas’ vibrancy is a major asset for recruiting, student experience, and faculty retention (24:24, 25:55).
- Quote:
  “I think that’s kind of the why the cities are winning. [...] Our students can take a class on Thursday and an internship on Friday at a real serious firm.” – Hartzell (25:55)

Leveraging Dallas’ Strengths

The university aligns new programs (e.g., video game design) to Dallas’ economic clusters and seeks to forge unique partnerships (39:19).

Housing Costs and Expansion

Dallas remains affordable but rising costs push students outward; SMU has plans to expand student housing via partnerships (27:44).

The Renaissance of Liberal Arts in the AI Era

Liberal Arts’ New Value

Discussion on AI’s effect on labor markets and how liberal arts—communication, critical thinking, adaptability—are more valuable than ever (31:05).
- Quote:
  “Now you roll the clock forward and all those hard math problems, you can approximate with computer in milliseconds. [...] I think a liberal arts degree has a lot of inherent optionality to it.” – Hartzell (31:05)

Curriculum Adaptation

Hartzell stresses industry feedback, purposeful curriculum design, and systematic upskilling in AI and tech for all students (33:37, 37:38).
Example: fast-tracking undergraduate video game design to meet industry demand.

Culture, Integrity, and Student Experience

Developing Student Character

Integrity, enthusiasm, intelligence—the Warren Buffett triad—are discussed in student formation (43:21).
- Quote:
  “I think you can hone it, develop it more. […] Those experiences, those stories, those opportunities matter.” – Hartzell (43:21)

Beyond the Classroom

SMU’s strength lies in a “well-rounded” student body and culture of engagement (46:17).
High Greek life participation (~40-50%), but the university also provides many paths for belonging and leadership development through clubs and other activities (48:15).

Diversity and Growth

Applications surged 56% last year; about half of students come from out-of-state.
Hartzell emphasizes broadening opportunities beyond Greek life for all students (50:01).

The Role of Athletics: ACC Move & Strategic Value

Athletics as an Institutional Engine

Moving into the ACC has boosted visibility and engagement, not just in sports but academics and faculty networking (51:50).
Athletics serves as a “halo,” attracting students, faculty, and alumni engagement.
The ACC offers an advantageous “club” for both athletic and academic peer association (54:49).
- Quote:
  “For us to continue to do what we want to do, we have to be competitive in football. And it is just the financial engine...” – Hartzell (57:57)

Balancing Resources, Traditions, and Ambitions

SMU’s athletic spending is half that of UT but the institution must prioritize football and basketball to stay competitive and boost profile (57:32).
Plans to selectively add sports (like lacrosse or baseball) if funding aligns with institutional goals (59:57).

Memorable Moments & Quotes

On urban universities outpacing rural peers:
“I still want to eventually beat Cornell for talent. So it’s not that I don’t care about the competition. I just think being in Dallas is way more advantageous than being in Ithaca today.” – Hartzell (27:39)
On adapting curriculum for the AI era:
“Almost all of the student body should be ready to be a consumer of it and empowered by it. And to your point, we’ve got to be able to be fluent enough in IT to understand what’s going on in those black boxes...” – Hartzell (37:38)
On the agility of SMU vs. UT Austin:
“We can just move faster...to go from idea to students pursuing a brand new major in a year in higher ed, that’s super fast. My guess is that would have taken us two or three years back at UT.” – Hartzell (37:38)
On the importance of learning ethics through lived experience:
“We’d rather have them face a ethical or integrity-type issue under the safer confines of a university setting before they go to your organization.” – Hartzell (43:21)

Notable Timestamps

03:01 – Hartzell's adolescence and early ambitions
04:19 – Choosing the PhD path; mentorship’s impact
10:12 – Joy in creating scalable student opportunities
12:39 – Becoming UT President during COVID
14:38 – Launching and executing a $6B+ capital campaign
19:45 – Comparing UT Austin and SMU as institutions
24:24 – First impressions of Dallas as an urban setting
25:55 – The impact of urban context on faculty and student recruitment
31:05 – Liberal arts’ resurgence in the age of AI
37:38 – Fast-tracking new academic programs
43:21 – On teaching integrity and ethics
48:15 – Greek life, student culture, and inclusion
51:50 – The strategic value of moving to the ACC
57:32 – The necessity of prioritizing football and basketball
59:57 – Potential for adding lacrosse/baseball to SMU athletics
61:39 – Reflection on SMU’s current excitement and momentum

Closing Reflection

Willy Walker lauds Hartzell's impact and notes the palpable excitement around SMU under his leadership. The move to the ACC, the intentional embrace of Dallas’ urban advantages, a forward-looking curriculum, and a vibrant student experience all feature as pillars of Hartzell’s vision. The episode closes with a mutual expression of optimism for SMU’s trajectory and gratitude for the conversation.

Listen for leadership lessons, the future of higher ed, and how urban universities can lead in a world of rapid change.

The Walker Webcast with Jay Hartzell, President of SMU

Host: Willy Walker
Guest: Jay Hartzell (President, Southern Methodist University; former President, University of Texas at Austin)
Date: November 13, 2025

Overview

Jay Hartzell: Early Life, Education, and Academic Path

Finding His Path as a Young Man

Hartzell grew up in Oklahoma, lost his father at 11, and became a preacher’s kid at 13, shaping his values and ambitions.
At 16, he was still searching for direction, describing his main goals as fitting in and affording his first car (03:01).
- Quote:
  “At 16 I wanted to be cooler [...] I had a job sacking groceries, bought my first car on credit with a cosign loan from my parents because they didn’t have much money. [...] I’d like to figure out how to get more girls to go out on dates and that kind of thing.” – Hartzell (03:01)

The Pivot to Academia

After Trinity University, he aimed for financial security but was bored as a consultant. A mentor recommended a PhD path over an MBA.
Applied to several PhD programs with the guidance and support of mentors, which shaped his career trajectory (04:19).
- Quote:
  “My kind of nutshell plan was get a job, get an MBA, get rich.” – Hartzell (04:19)
  “It was never the part of the plan until that moment. And so I’m so grateful—professors who gave me advice and with the letter, professor who admitted me, she became my advisor...” – Hartzell (04:19)

Real Estate and Administrative Leadership

Real Estate as a Career Focus

Hartzell was drawn to real estate for its tangibility, academic rigor, and connection to cities.
His tenure at NYU and UT Austin combined real estate and broader finance (07:04).
- Quote:
  “I liked its tangibility. The fact that you can kind of see it in the world.” – Hartzell (07:04)

Developing Leadership

His extroverted personality and joy in catalyzing change set him apart.
Moving from faculty to leading the UT Real Estate Center was a pivotal administrative step.
- Quote:
  “If you’re an extroverted nerd, you become a dean.” – Hartzell (09:12) “I found, I thought more impact, more joy, more satisfaction out of, here’s a new opportunity for students at scale.” – Hartzell (10:12)

Hands-on Student Learning in Real Estate

UT’s real estate program was the first in the U.S. to offer students direct co-investment in private deals—a model now also at SMU.
The Folsom Institute at SMU (headed by Joseph Cahoon) continues experiential, capital-backed student investing (11:40).

Transitioning from UT Austin to SMU

The Unexpected Call to Lead UT During Crisis

Hartzell never planned to become a university president. The departure of the UT president during COVID led to his appointment (12:39).
- Quote:
  “The closest analog is the show Designated Survivor...all of a sudden, I’m going to be interim president of this massive university where I went to graduate school. [...] That’s not something I had seen coming.” – Hartzell (12:39)

Major Capital Campaigns

Launched and executed the “What Starts Here” campaign, raising $6.2B for UT, with broad impact across academics, scholarships, and athletics (14:38).

Bringing “Big Platform” Lessons to SMU

Scaling Ambition for a Smaller Institution

UT’s scale (e.g., $54B endowment) dwarfs SMU’s ($2.4B), but Hartzell sees opportunity in applying “big platform” lessons to accelerate SMU’s growth (15:02).
Adds value by introducing broader vision, operational experience, and recruiting leadership that’s “seen what great looks like.” (17:09)
- Quote:
  “Knowing what great looks like...and now having a team that has a sense of what we really want to create because we’ve been in those kinds of environments, I think is really helpful.” – Hartzell (17:09)

The Agility of a Private Urban University

SMU as “an aircraft carrier that’s easier to turn” compared to public systems.
More direct focus on academic mission, less political friction (19:45; 21:14).
- Quote:
  “UT is an aircraft carrier, it displaces a lot of water, but it’s hard to turn—and SMU is more turnable.” – Hartzell (19:45)

SMU’s Strategic Positioning and Urban Advantage

SMU as a Premier Urban University

Hartzell drives a vision to make SMU “one of the great urban private universities in America.”
Dallas’ vibrancy is a major asset for recruiting, student experience, and faculty retention (24:24, 25:55).
- Quote:
  “I think that’s kind of the why the cities are winning. [...] Our students can take a class on Thursday and an internship on Friday at a real serious firm.” – Hartzell (25:55)

Leveraging Dallas’ Strengths

The university aligns new programs (e.g., video game design) to Dallas’ economic clusters and seeks to forge unique partnerships (39:19).

Housing Costs and Expansion

Dallas remains affordable but rising costs push students outward; SMU has plans to expand student housing via partnerships (27:44).

The Renaissance of Liberal Arts in the AI Era

Liberal Arts’ New Value

Discussion on AI’s effect on labor markets and how liberal arts—communication, critical thinking, adaptability—are more valuable than ever (31:05).
- Quote:
  “Now you roll the clock forward and all those hard math problems, you can approximate with computer in milliseconds. [...] I think a liberal arts degree has a lot of inherent optionality to it.” – Hartzell (31:05)

Curriculum Adaptation

Hartzell stresses industry feedback, purposeful curriculum design, and systematic upskilling in AI and tech for all students (33:37, 37:38).
Example: fast-tracking undergraduate video game design to meet industry demand.

Culture, Integrity, and Student Experience

Developing Student Character

Integrity, enthusiasm, intelligence—the Warren Buffett triad—are discussed in student formation (43:21).
- Quote:
  “I think you can hone it, develop it more. […] Those experiences, those stories, those opportunities matter.” – Hartzell (43:21)

Beyond the Classroom

SMU’s strength lies in a “well-rounded” student body and culture of engagement (46:17).
High Greek life participation (~40-50%), but the university also provides many paths for belonging and leadership development through clubs and other activities (48:15).

Diversity and Growth

Applications surged 56% last year; about half of students come from out-of-state.
Hartzell emphasizes broadening opportunities beyond Greek life for all students (50:01).

The Role of Athletics: ACC Move & Strategic Value

Athletics as an Institutional Engine

Moving into the ACC has boosted visibility and engagement, not just in sports but academics and faculty networking (51:50).
Athletics serves as a “halo,” attracting students, faculty, and alumni engagement.
The ACC offers an advantageous “club” for both athletic and academic peer association (54:49).
- Quote:
  “For us to continue to do what we want to do, we have to be competitive in football. And it is just the financial engine...” – Hartzell (57:57)

Balancing Resources, Traditions, and Ambitions

SMU’s athletic spending is half that of UT but the institution must prioritize football and basketball to stay competitive and boost profile (57:32).
Plans to selectively add sports (like lacrosse or baseball) if funding aligns with institutional goals (59:57).

Memorable Moments & Quotes

On urban universities outpacing rural peers:
“I still want to eventually beat Cornell for talent. So it’s not that I don’t care about the competition. I just think being in Dallas is way more advantageous than being in Ithaca today.” – Hartzell (27:39)
On adapting curriculum for the AI era:
“Almost all of the student body should be ready to be a consumer of it and empowered by it. And to your point, we’ve got to be able to be fluent enough in IT to understand what’s going on in those black boxes...” – Hartzell (37:38)
On the agility of SMU vs. UT Austin:
“We can just move faster...to go from idea to students pursuing a brand new major in a year in higher ed, that’s super fast. My guess is that would have taken us two or three years back at UT.” – Hartzell (37:38)
On the importance of learning ethics through lived experience:
“We’d rather have them face a ethical or integrity-type issue under the safer confines of a university setting before they go to your organization.” – Hartzell (43:21)

Notable Timestamps

03:01 – Hartzell's adolescence and early ambitions
04:19 – Choosing the PhD path; mentorship’s impact
10:12 – Joy in creating scalable student opportunities
12:39 – Becoming UT President during COVID
14:38 – Launching and executing a $6B+ capital campaign
19:45 – Comparing UT Austin and SMU as institutions
24:24 – First impressions of Dallas as an urban setting
25:55 – The impact of urban context on faculty and student recruitment
31:05 – Liberal arts’ resurgence in the age of AI
37:38 – Fast-tracking new academic programs
43:21 – On teaching integrity and ethics
48:15 – Greek life, student culture, and inclusion
51:50 – The strategic value of moving to the ACC
57:32 – The necessity of prioritizing football and basketball
59:57 – Potential for adding lacrosse/baseball to SMU athletics
61:39 – Reflection on SMU’s current excitement and momentum

Closing Reflection

Listen for leadership lessons, the future of higher ed, and how urban universities can lead in a world of rapid change.

Jay Hartzell, President of SMU

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Summary

The Walker Webcast with Jay Hartzell, President of SMU

Overview

Jay Hartzell: Early Life, Education, and Academic Path

Finding His Path as a Young Man

The Pivot to Academia

Real Estate and Administrative Leadership

Real Estate as a Career Focus

Developing Leadership

Hands-on Student Learning in Real Estate

Transitioning from UT Austin to SMU

The Unexpected Call to Lead UT During Crisis

Major Capital Campaigns

Bringing “Big Platform” Lessons to SMU

Scaling Ambition for a Smaller Institution

The Agility of a Private Urban University

SMU’s Strategic Positioning and Urban Advantage

SMU as a Premier Urban University

Leveraging Dallas’ Strengths

Housing Costs and Expansion

The Renaissance of Liberal Arts in the AI Era

Liberal Arts’ New Value

Curriculum Adaptation

Culture, Integrity, and Student Experience

Developing Student Character

Beyond the Classroom

Diversity and Growth

The Role of Athletics: ACC Move & Strategic Value

Athletics as an Institutional Engine

Balancing Resources, Traditions, and Ambitions

Memorable Moments & Quotes

Notable Timestamps

Closing Reflection

Summary

The Walker Webcast with Jay Hartzell, President of SMU

Overview

Jay Hartzell: Early Life, Education, and Academic Path

Finding His Path as a Young Man

The Pivot to Academia

Real Estate and Administrative Leadership

Real Estate as a Career Focus

Developing Leadership

Hands-on Student Learning in Real Estate

Transitioning from UT Austin to SMU

The Unexpected Call to Lead UT During Crisis

Major Capital Campaigns

Bringing “Big Platform” Lessons to SMU

Scaling Ambition for a Smaller Institution

The Agility of a Private Urban University

SMU’s Strategic Positioning and Urban Advantage

SMU as a Premier Urban University

Leveraging Dallas’ Strengths

Housing Costs and Expansion

The Renaissance of Liberal Arts in the AI Era

Liberal Arts’ New Value

Curriculum Adaptation

Culture, Integrity, and Student Experience

Developing Student Character

Beyond the Classroom

Diversity and Growth

The Role of Athletics: ACC Move & Strategic Value

Athletics as an Institutional Engine

Balancing Resources, Traditions, and Ambitions

Memorable Moments & Quotes

Notable Timestamps

Closing Reflection