The Walker Webcast: Affordable Housing, Legacy, and Leadership

Episode Date: December 4, 2025
Guests: Jonathan F.P. Rose (Founder & President, Jonathan Rose Companies) and Scott J. Alter (Principal & Co-Founder, Standard Communities)
Host: Willy Walker (Chairman & CEO, Walker & Dunlop)

Episode Overview

In this insightful episode of The Walker Webcast, host Willy Walker brings together two titans of affordable housing: Jonathan F.P. Rose and Scott J. Alter. The discussion is anchored by their shared respect for the late Nathan Taft, whose legacy inspired the newly-established Nathan Taft Award, honoring integrity and purpose in the industry. The conversation then flows into an in-depth examination of current challenges and innovations within affordable housing, the interplay of purpose-driven business, market trends, public policy, and the need for creative, sustainable solutions.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Honoring Nathan Taft: The Inaugural Nathan Taft Award

• Remembering Nathan Taft
  • "Nathan was this incredibly compassionate, mission focused, purposeful person who was in this industry to make the world a better place. And he was also really good... a master at what he did." — Jonathan Rose [03:10]
  • Nathan's defining traits: trust, honesty, and a purpose-driven approach.
• Purpose of the Award
  • Award established to commemorate Nathan’s impact, not just within the industry but also as a tribute to his family.
  • “Part of this award is that every year we are going to send a letter to his family... to make sure they know that he made an impact in the time he was away from them.” — Scott Alter [06:31]
  • The selection process is independent (administered by AHF) to celebrate those who embody Nathan's character across the industry.

2. Integrating Spirituality, Purpose, and Business

• Bridging Social Impact and Profit
  • Jonathan shares his experience founding the Garrison Institute and working with the Dalai Lama, advocating for spiritual education and compassion in business schools.
  • “Business can be an amazing force for good and this industry exemplifies that... but that's not always what is taught in business school.” — Jonathan Rose [09:24]
  • The goal: Foster networks among business professors who focus on purpose and compassion, while maintaining rigorous business skills.
• Core Business Values
  • Jonathan Rose Companies: “Excellence with kindness.”
    “Kindness means that your purpose, the reason why you're being excellent, the reason why you're being disciplined... is to make the world a better place.” — Jonathan Rose [13:28]
  • Standard Communities: “Sweat the details, move with urgency, and act with kindness.”
    “If we're good companies, we are relational, we are friendly, we are kind.” — Scott Alter [14:47]

3. Affordable Housing Policy: Barriers and Opportunities

• Current Landscape and Policy Challenges

  • Discusses the grim financial situation for affordable housing projects in cities like NYC and San Francisco, where over 50% of tax credit projects are losing money [16:38].
  • Political and regulatory hurdles: Tax structures, rent control, zoning, and construction costs.
    • “If [the NYC mayor] really wants to serve low income and working class people... he has to walk up to the underlying conditions as to why these projects are losing money.” — Jonathan Rose [16:55]
  • Skepticism about the depth of politicians’ understanding of the industry's complexities [18:16].

• Geographic and Market Considerations

  • Decision-making based on climate risk, insurance costs, local policy support, and job growth.
  • Avoids investment in markets with high physical risk (e.g., Phoenix, Texas, Florida), cyclical volatility, or unfavorable tax policies.
    • “I've never invested in Phoenix. ...every time there's been a major recession, it's been the New Yorkers who've been holding the bags in Texas.” — Jonathan Rose [23:48]
  • The Carolinas and certain Midwest markets are seen as attractive; portfolio buying as a strategic response to the aging of LIHTC assets [27:21].

4. Scaling Affordable Housing: Innovation and the Need for Federal Leadership

• Are We Doing Enough?
  • Emphasizes the shortfall in affordable housing supply versus demand, and the absence of breakthrough innovation akin to the original LIHTC creation [29:27].
    • “We need now to think of a bunch of things that we haven't thought of before that can dramatically scale up housing access in the United States.” — Jonathan Rose [30:29]
• Suggestions for Change
  • Increased density (zoning reform), long-term self-amortizing loans, and efficient financing.
    • Cites Copenhagen’s urban renewal as a working model [31:18].
  • Lowering interest rates and improving cost efficiency, particularly by reforming prevailing wage laws (Davis-Bacon) to encourage more development [37:47].

5. Financial Structures and Partnerships

• Debt Capital and Federal Programs
  • Fannie, Freddie, and HUD are active but could do more, particularly with construction loans and process efficiency.
    • “We need to really upgrade those systems so they can be underwritten fast... if HUD could process and issue a loan in 30 or 60 days and get rid of Davis-Bacon or have a different set of labor [rules]...” — Jonathan Rose [37:23–37:55]
  • Insurance company capital is gaining traction as a new source for affordable housing debt [35:16].
• Policy Implications
  • The need for a holistic, integrated approach across federal, state, and local government to create level playing fields and maximize public-private partnership opportunities [45:36].

6. Asset Management, Community, and Social Outcomes

• Optimal Property Size and Operations
  • Both agree that mid-sized properties (150–200 units) allow for the most efficient management and best community outcomes [48:12].
  • Social and health services are increasingly important as properties serve residents facing economic and mental health challenges.
    • “We have made, in some cases, remarkable transformations of the culture of the communities that we own... most importantly, it's been transformational for the families.” — Jonathan Rose [48:54]
• Preservation and Continuation
  • Aging assets need significant reinvestment; expansion of preservation tools like the 4% credit is positive but insufficient [52:11].

7. Industry Growth, Bipartisanship, and Future Risks

• Attracting Institutional Capital
  • Growing institutional interest is bridging some capital gaps left by limited government resources [53:10].
• Bipartisanship
  • Historically, affordable housing has maintained bipartisan support, and most in the field expect that to continue regardless of administration [46:48].
• Unaddressed Risks
  • Concerns persist about political shifts and the maintenance of federal funding streams.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Kindness as a Business Value:
  “Excellence with kindness.” — Jonathan Rose [13:28]
• On Policy Frustration:
  “I think it's pretty clear [the NYC mayor] has no idea what's going on within affordable housing...” — Scott Alter [18:35]
• On Avoiding Certain Climates:
  “I just don't understand why people want to be in cities where there’s over 100 degrees of heat…” — Jonathan Rose [22:55]
• On Contractor Constraints:
  “We have to solve the Davis Bacon problem because it’s just adding cost... many contractors just don't want to be in the whole compliance regime.” — Jonathan Rose [37:47]
• On the Scale of Social Support:
  “It just gets harder and harder, the bigger the project is, to create transformation.” — Jonathan Rose [49:39]
• On Bringing in New Federal Funding:
  “It has to start at the federal level because that's where the real money is. But the states and local authorities... can do property tax reform, zoning changes. So it has to be all integrated.” — Scott Alter [44:44]

Notable Personal Insights

• Jonathan’s Musical Passion:

  • Loves jazz and fusion; last played in his own band and attended a New York Philharmonic performance [54:17].
  • “When I travel, I work day and night... I broke that pattern two weeks ago... I went and heard David Byrne. And that was pretty great.” — Jonathan Rose [55:48]

• Scott’s Travel Plans:

  • Excited about skiing with family in Lech, Austria, and British Columbia [56:28].

Important Segment Timestamps

• [02:56] Remembering Nathan Taft and the purpose of the Award
• [09:24] Integrating spirituality and business education
• [13:21] On merging social purpose and business discipline
• [16:38] Financial viability challenges in NYC/SF affordable projects
• [22:38] Market bifurcation: Sunbelt vs. gateway cities
• [27:21] Impact of portfolio sales and LIHTC legacy properties
• [29:02] Are we building enough affordable housing?
• [37:23] Davis-Bacon as a developer barrier
• [48:12] Optimal property size for social and financial benefits
• [52:11] Preserving existing affordable housing stock
• [54:12] Jonathan Rose on music and jazz

Conclusion

This episode offers a deep dive into affordable housing’s present and future, with practical wisdom, policy critique, and a heartfelt commitment to social impact. Both Jonathan Rose and Scott Alter model a unique blend of disciplined investment and genuine altruism—demonstrating, as Jonathan puts it, “an illusion that [business and compassion] are separate, they are integrated.” Their perspectives and stories leave listeners with actionable insight and hope for the industry’s next generation.