141. Industry S2E4 | “There Are Some Women”: Forming an Investment Thesis, Comp, Power Plays & More

Summary

The Wall Street Skinny – Episode 141: “There Are Some Women”

Release Date: February 11, 2025

In Episode 141 of The Wall Street Skinny, hosts Kristen and Jen delve deep into Season 2, Episode 4 of HBO Max's hit show Industry, titled “There Are Some Women”. This episode offers a comprehensive analysis of the intricate plotlines, character developments, and underlying financial concepts portrayed in the show. Here's a detailed summary capturing all the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

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1. Opening Scene: Eric's Vulnerable Portrayal

The episode begins with a discussion about the opening scene where Eric Grilling is seen grilling at his Greenwich home. Kristen relates this to her own core memory of attending her boss's 40th birthday party in Greenwich, highlighting the stark contrast between a Wall Street professional's intimidating work persona and their more vulnerable home life.

Notable Quote:

• Jen [01:54]: “Seeing Eric outside of Pierpoint in a sweatshirt, in an apron, just being a regular human in his own backyard, it makes him seem, to me at least, very vulnerable right from the jump.”

2. Compensation and Bonus Structures in Wall Street

Kristen and Jen explore the complexities of compensation in fixed income sales and trading, emphasizing the rigid structures that often leave professionals dependent on bonuses rather than base salaries. They discuss the episode's portrayal of compensation letters, highlighting inconsistencies and power dynamics.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen [07:40]: “We've said so many times you're all in comp. Like you have a base salary which maybe keeps the lights on. Maybe it's the bonus that's really the majority of your compensation...”
• Kristen [12:53]: “For Americans out there, it's roughly 300,000 units US dollars... which was signed by DVD. So this whole thing is super unusual.”

3. Power Plays and Threats: Eric vs. Adler

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Eric Grilling's confrontation with Adler over compensation reductions. Kristen and Jen analyze Eric's aggressive stance and Adler's calculated response, shedding light on the high-stakes environment of Wall Street where power plays are commonplace.

Notable Quotes:

• Kristen [103:17]: “Shall we look at the data? Numbers don't lie.”
• Jen [104:43]: “He is laying it all on the line here. You do not threaten a manager of yours that you're going to go seek a bid away unless you have one.”

4. Mentorship and Ethical Boundaries

The hosts discuss the problematic mentor-mentee relationships depicted in the show, drawing parallels to real-life Wall Street dynamics. They highlight instances of inappropriate relationships and the blurred lines of ethical behavior, emphasizing the show's critical stance on these issues.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen [77:39]: “These are the relationships that are supposed to be normal. We've got Gus, we've got Celeste, we've got DVDs, parents. They are hitting you over the head with it in this episode.”
• Kristen [86:13]: “These are relationships that are a power dynamic between Newman having been their direct manager and having said these racist things to Eric.”

5. Yaz and Celeste: Family Office Conflicts

Yaz and Celeste's subplot revolves around managing a family office and uncovering hidden financial dealings. Kristen and Jen dissect their interactions, revealing underlying tensions and potential conflicts of interest that drive the narrative forward.

Notable Quotes:

• Kristen [24:22]: “She thinks I'm in the best position to decide what's best for my family's money. Clearly not true, because her motivation is so much colored by wanting to get in with PeerPoint.”
• Jen [25:15]: “Understanding you've been between jobs for a while. And he says, do you want to talk about it?”

6. Aurora and Gus: Public Relations and Mental Health

The conversation shifts to Aurora and Gus, where they deal with difficult constituents. Kristen and Jen highlight Gus's compassionate approach contrasted with Aurora's detachment, showcasing different leadership styles within high-pressure environments.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen [28:22]: “Aurora doesn't actually seem like she actually gives a crap about her constituents. Gus deals with a crazy person who basically leaves him a box of shit.”
• Kristen [29:49]: “He's trying to, paint a picture of Gus as a more humane character compared to Aurora.”

7. Harper and Yaz: Rebuilding Friendships Amid Chaos

Harper and Yaz attempt to reconnect, navigating their strained friendship against the backdrop of financial turmoil. The hosts empathize with Yaz's vulnerability and Harper's defensive stance, illustrating the personal toll of professional pressures.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen [55:00]: “What Harper hears is, oh, I spent a whole year not worrying about money during COVID...”
• Kristen [61:53]: “Freeze so much. Like, please just be friends again.”

8. Eric's Demotion and Final Confrontation

The climax centers around Eric's confrontation with Adler, where he demands his former status back. Kristen and Jen analyze the intense negotiation, portraying it as a pivotal moment that could define Eric's career and personal life.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen [105:54]: “This is the ultimatum of, like, if you don't propose to me on our vacation, we're breaking up.”
• Kristen [107:17]: “Adler then says, we want you to run the client relationship effort across Europe...”

9. Themes and Reflections

Throughout the episode, Kristen and Jen reflect on overarching themes such as power dynamics, ethical breaches, compensation rigidity, and the personal struggles of Wall Street professionals. They praise the show's nuanced portrayal of complex characters while critiquing certain unrealistic elements.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen [111:04]: “Life is so much more of a gray area. And Eric didn't feel comfortable as a junior person being like, you can't say that to me.”
• Kristen [112:51]: “He has gone from the freedom of the trading cell to being caged in the prison of SRM.”

10. Hosts' Personal Insights and Predictions

In the concluding segments, Kristen and Jen share their personal insights, expressing concern for Eric's future while being bearish on Yaz and bullish on characters like DVD and Harper. They underscore the importance of female friendships and ethical integrity in high-stakes environments.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen [114:29]: “I am very bearish on Yasmine. Yasmin. Nothing's coming up.”
• Kristen [114:40]: “Bearish on Eric because I'm worried about him. I'm literally worried for his life.”

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Conclusion

Kristen and Jen wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to engage with upcoming content, including interviews with finance professionals and discussions on equity long/short strategies. They emphasize the importance of understanding the nuanced portrayal of Wall Street in pop culture and its real-world implications.

Final Quote:

• Jen [115:04]: “Thank you so much, and we'll see you next week.”

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This episode of The Wall Street Skinny offers an incisive and engaging breakdown of Industry’s latest developments, providing listeners with both entertainment and education on the complex world of finance portrayed in the show.

Transcript

[Kristen]

Guys, we are so excited to finally announce the launch of our long awaited talent Accelerator, our exclusive live virtual training series. This is our chance to bring you our signature training to any company that wants their incoming talent trained by us, Kristen and Jen.

[Jen]

We are running three live sessions over the next two months. First up, our Excel and Financial modeling bootcamp on May 8th through 9th, designed to get your new hires up the curve on Excel, Accounting and integrated modeling fast. Then in June, we're running two intern focused sessions. Our Investment Banking and Private equity accelerator from June 2nd to June 5th and our fixed income sales and trading accelerator from June 9th to 11th.

[Kristen]

These are perfect for firms who want their interns to hit the ground running this summer and actually understand what's happening on the desk.

[Jen]

And for individuals, we've got you covered too. Our self paced Investment Banking and Private Equity fundamentals course is live and available now. These courses are nothing like the boring online classes you're used to. They're video driven, visual and totally bingeable, just like our Instagram content. And yes, fixed income, sales, Trading and investing self study is still coming later this year.

[Kristen]

Check out the link in our show notes to register your firm and start learning today.

[Jen]

Hi friends. Welcome back to another episode of the unofficial companion podcast to HBO Max's hit show Industry. I'm Jen.

[Kristen]

I'm Kristen.

[Jen]

And we are the Wall Street Skinny. Two lifelong friends, former investment bankers and teachers who are here to break down everything in your favorite show from the finance to the romance, and give you the skinny on what's real and what's just. Hollywood. We are back with season two, episode four, There Are Some Women.

[Kristen]

Now.

[Jen]

When I first saw that title, I was like, is this some literary quote? I've never heard it before. Like if it is, it went way over my head. As far as I can tell, it's just a reference to a line that happens later in the show. But we first of all are so grateful to all of our UK based listeners who've written us, by the way, the kindest and most respectful notes helping us out on all the stuff we don't know. We fully acknowledge that we are like the most American women imaginable. We barely know the geography of our own country, let alone yours. So please, please, please never hesitate to help us out on some of this stuff. And if there's a literary reference that I miss as an English major, I will be kicking myself. But you can also help us out on those too. Okay, so I want to start with the opening scene. The opening scene is Eric Grilling at what appears to be his personal home. A downright stunning home, by the way. And I immediately had this visceral reaction. Kristen. It was like a core memory being unlocked. So let me paint the picture for you. Okay. It's late spring, early summer, 2008. It's my then bosses 40th birthday party. He invited me to his home in Greenwich. I think he let me bring my boyfriend. At the time, I was in charge of the soundtrack. So, like, I was working, you know, I was basically the DJ for the thing. And the soundtrack was like Coldplays, Viva la Vida with some old Bon Jovi and some Journey, like some classic rock stuff, whatever. It was a lobster bacon. His backyard in the back of his stunning Greenwich mansion. The backyard itself had, like, rolling hills. And it was amazing. The reason I bring that up is I think when you work on Wall street more than any other industry, there's this separation of who senior people are at work versus who they are in their home life. You see it in the way that they dress. They wear a suit that hides their personal fashion. In a lot of ways, everyone's kind of in this uniform they tend to put on, especially in Eric's case, this kind of really intimidating presence. And when you see them in their native environment, it's jarring. Seeing Eric outside of Pierpoint in a sweatshirt, in an apron, just being a regular human in his own backyard, it makes him seem, to me at least, very vulnerable right from the jump. Like, you shouldn't be seeing this.

[Kristen]

Well, yeah. I mean, and we saw a little bit of that in season one when Harper was at that convenience store and saw him with his two daughters, and she had just been responsible for getting him fired. And now all of a sudden, it's like you see him as this, like, human being.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Kristen]

And it is this stark contrast of this sort of Persona who, you know, seemed, like, scary and had locked her in a room and all this stuff. And then it's like this dad who has these two little girls.

[Jen]

It is. And especially given where we left him at the end of the last episode.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Jen]

To see him in this quasi vulnerable state after his utter defeat and having his biggest client turn his back on him. But also, like, sick house. Look at this house.

[Kristen]

But his wife at Google. He's like an MD at peerpoint. And by the way, I will add, we obviously later get some clarification about he is older than us. Like, he's probably closer to 50 because he sort of gets into his analyst class, which he must have gone through training like 28 years ago. So he, you know, he's.

[Jen]

The fact that he ever talked about Solomon in and of itself.

[Kristen]

Well, yes, yeah, we initially were like, wait, was that like a mistake? No, no, no, it's not. He's just older than we thought he was. So. But yeah, the house is gorgeous and by that's like a $25 million house.

[Jen]

In London I think I would assume.

[Kristen]

So he's outside grilling and then he gets a phone call and it's DVD and he's just ignoring it. So it goes to voicemail and then he, he picks it up after. Cause like I'll see what DVD had to say. And he's telling Eric that he hopes he enjoyed his two weeker. And we're going to talk about that because that's something that if you're an outsider, you're probably just like, oh, like he took a two week vacation, like, what? But this, this actually is required. Although I did want to talk to you because like, is that common for salespeople? Yeah.

[Jen]

So one of the perks of working in fixed income sales and trading is what's called the mandatory two week vacation. And this was implemented as a stopgap to try to offset basically people who were cooking the books, people who were falsifying trades and faking tickets. And there were a number of cases that were litigated and scandals that broke in the 80s and 90s. So every trader and risk taker in charge of P and L on Wall street in the US there may be some flexibility around this, around banks who like don't trade any dollar denominated assets or whatever. But it is a regulatory rule that a trader must take a two week consecutive vacation where you don't write any work emails, you don't log into your work computer, like you cannot touch your stuff and they go through everything with a fine tooth comb. Or at least in theory it gives the bank the opportunity to do so. I never worked in compliance and legal and stuff like that, so I don't know what they actually do. If you accidentally log into your computer or forget and send an email, it invalidates. It invalidates the whole thing and you have to take another two weeker and it's like, sweet. Why wouldn't you just accidentally send an email on the 13th day or whatever? No, no, no, no, no. Because it's going to really, really hurt your compensation in the eyes of your manager if all of a sudden you're taking more time off. So.

[Kristen]

Well, and we're going to get into a whole thing on compensation because literally that's what they're about to talk about.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

We've said so many times you're all in comp. Like you have a base salary which maybe keeps the lights on. Maybe it's the bonus that's really the majority of your compensation, especially at those senior levels. So like nobody's working for their base salary. You're working for the all in comp. You got it.

[Jen]

And so the weird thing about this though is Ericsson sales. So yeah, typically if you're not taking risk, if you don't, if you aren't in charge of P and L and you don't have trades, you're not managing the risk of the firm, you aren't mandated to take two weeks. So we know that they've blurred the lines a lot with CPS where Harper's been executing trades on behalf of clients. So I'm willing to suspend disbelief. But just so you know, I used to take a two weeker every year because I was dating and then ultimately married a trader who had to take a two weeker. And I was like, what are we going to do? Not go on vacation together? That's absurd. So I just did it, like bonus be damned. And if I got paid down because of that, I didn't care. I was also so junior, relatively speaking, I exited as a vp.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Jen]

So it wasn't like they would have paid me $2 million and they're only paying me $200,000. It was a relatively tight range on my compensation, which we'll also talk about. So Eric should theoretically not have had a mandatory two weeker.

[Kristen]

Yeah. Well, I also was wondering when I was watching this the first time, thought, did he get fired because he's at home grilling after. We've mostly only seen him at work. Correct. So I wonder if that was a little bit. But anyway, so DVD calls, leaves his voicemail and he says that he spoke to Adler. Remember he's the boss who's in New.

[Jen]

York and Adler fixed income currencies and commodities or.

[Kristen]

Exactly. And so he had said that DVD could handle the comp meetings, but he'd make sure that Eric got paid on Monday. And, and then he says at the end, he says, oh, oh, and by the way, the bonus pool is down this year. Can get into it when you're back. And so as he hears this, Eric then starts to go digging through his garden and it looks like he's looking through an old pack of cigarettes.

[Jen]

To your point earlier of I thought he got fired when you See someone on Wall street literally gardening, right. Digging with a trowel in his garden. It's evocative of garden leave, which is that that mandatory paid non compete that you take when you switch firms. I don't think that's an accident that he's gardening.

[Kristen]

But that's funny. It would have been actually funnier if he was like, on a beach. That's what happens when you basically get fired and don't have a job, versus, to your point, garden leave. But as he's doing this, his wife comes in and that's what he's doing. He says gardening, but I mean, at this point I was a little confused because we've seen him smoking in the prior seasons. Did he try to quit? That's what I'm assuming.

[Jen]

So I knew so many people at work who smells smoked at the office, who would like, go downstairs and go outside and take a smoke break or would smoke when they were out with clients, but whose families never knew that they smoked. So I am betting that his wife thinks that he doesn't smoke or that when they got together 20 years ago, that maybe he did out of client events, but now he doesn't because he's Mr. Dad and all that fun stuff.

[Kristen]

Yeah. Because the next scene you see someone delivering food and one of the things.

[Jen]

That gets like a doordash.

[Kristen]

Cigarettes. Yeah. So we see him now at his kitchen table and he's wearing his purple Pure Point sweatshirt. That's like management off site. He's drinking coffee and his daughters look at him and they say, when are you going back to work? And he says, what, you don't like having me around? And they're just like, it's fine. And then he's like, it's fine. They changed their answer. Good.

[Jen]

Heartbreaking.

[Kristen]

No, they were like, yeah, we don't care if you're here. Which.

[Jen]

Well, yeah. I mean, when. When we come up on the end of a vacation, my kids always ask my husband, like, do you have to go back to work? Are you sure? Can you just stay home for like one more day? Like, like they're, they're like pleading like, please, please, please don't go back. This is the opposite. The kids are like cold and businesslike, and then they just go play outside in there. I mean, stunning backyard without him just leaving him at the breakfast table. Like, whatever, dude.

[Kristen]

Yeah. I mean, I will say, though, there's a difference between what kids say and then what they actually feel. But I'm with you. I mean, just seeing how I think.

[Jen]

That their Feelings also do change on a whim. But I do believe honest words come from the mouths of babes. My kids all the time are like, when are you gonna make enough money so that Daddy doesn't have to go to work anymore? And I'm like, guys, I'm trying, okay? I know you're sick of me because you see me all day. I'm the parent you get to take for granted. It's a privilege to be taken for.

[Kristen]

Granted by your children. My kids are obsessed with Daddy.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

Like they are. When is Daddy coming home? Where is Daddy? Because I'm always here. I'm not special. You're not special. So, yeah, we have mommy time in.

[Jen]

Abundance, but daddy time is special.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Jen]

And with these kids, they probably have neither parent time in abundance.

[Kristen]

Right.

[Jen]

Because their mom is a badass at Google and their dad is a hardworking sales guy. So there is a nanny or a housekeeper floating around that we do see casually in the back of this scene. But you'd think they'd be so excited for the prospect of either parent spending more time with them, they don't seem to care.

[Kristen]

Yeah. All right, so next scene, we're in the office in London, and DVD hands harbor her comp letter. And so I paused it so I could see exactly how much she got. Yeah. So her bonus for the year was 125 pounds, bringing her total to 225, which, if you do the conversion. What's the. What's the conversion rate? Like 1.3.

[Jen]

It was 130, remember, in the F. That's true. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know where it was, but, yeah.

[Kristen]

I mean, so for Americans out there, it's roughly 300,000 units US dollars, which.

[Jen]

Wait, a letter. In British pounds. Or was it in dollars?

[Kristen]

It was British pounds. Took a picture of it. Yes. Pounds.

[Jen]

Okay, so, by the way. But again, if you took a picture of it, you might also have noticed, or maybe you didn't, that there is a typo in this letter. There are two spaces in between two of the words. So I immediately.

[Kristen]

Contribution.

[Jen]

Excellent. And contribution. There are two spaces in between them.

[Kristen]

Yes. These are the types of things. Again, I always talk about banker attention to detail. You have, like, a superpower you can't get rid of. And, yes, those are the types of things that you start to notice. But by the way, Jen just sent her on a newsletter this morning with the comp ranges for all the different banks. It's comp season right now in the US and so to me, 300,000 for a third year analyst. Seems high for all in.

[Jen]

It's definitely like upper top tier. Really great. You did really well. Remember, in sales and trading it is quite rare to have third year analysts. And so I actually had a couple of notes.

[Kristen]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Jen]

Because a couple of things about this that are very unusual, slash confusion here. So yes, I'm with you. That is high. However, we've got some irregularities here because he says I paid you at the top tier because you're a third year analyst. You are still capped for those junior roles like analysts and associates. There is a fixed band and maybe once in a blue moon you will get a superstar trader who is truly a risk taker, who is making hard $P and off of the firm who just blows it out. They might make an exception for somebody like that to pay them outside the analyst or associate program because they know they're going to lose them to the buy side if they don't and they want to keep them and they're so incentivized to. But generally speaking, 99.9% of the time you're going to be held within that range of probably zero to call it whatever, 150, 200, 250K. But so DVD says, I was a rock star too. I was always paid at the upper end of the bracket. It feels like a brick wall. Pay me like the superstar I am, bitch. Like you know, oh, I totally relate to you. That's what I went through. And Harper goes, so promote me. And she should be anyway, she's a third year analyst.

[Kristen]

She would be promoted.

[Jen]

She would be getting promoted to associate. Why isn't that happening? There's no fourth year analyst. So I'm very confused here. And this letter that you screenshotted is signed by dvd. So this whole thing, this pissing contest of who's delivering the comm conversations DVD or Eric to me, first of all, in my experience, and granted it's limited, but I've been to three different banks and know a lot of people on the street. I have never seen that letter signed by an executive director who is not even head of the group. No, that letter is typically signed by at least the head of your area.

[Kristen]

Right.

[Jen]

If you're in global macro or rates or fixed income, like this would be signed by Adler. Typically yeah, maybe Eric, if Eric had more responsibility. Or the head of North American sales or London sales or whatever that is. So that's super unusual. And then number two, there's no joy in being the one who like has These comp conversations. Everyone hates these conversations, especially when they're saying, the desk is down, the bonus pool is down.

[Kristen]

Pool is down.

[Jen]

Which is what DVD said. Yeah. Those are awful conversations to have. And you wouldn't just be finding out that the bonus pool is down on comp day unless your Harper Eric would have known for months because he would have been sitting in con conversations with senior management all throughout the fall and winter as kind of the numbers are starting to coalesce. And it's not a surprise we have an entire episode on compensation negotiations where by the time it actually gets to this conversation, it's been set in stone for so long.

[Kristen]

Right. And also surprises. Well, and he says to her, he says, the desk is down, but she's up almost 100%. So, like her, almost 100. That could easily. No, no, no.

[Jen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kristen]

No, no. I. Because we later find out what happened to Robert as well. But he's saying, the desk is down, but she's up almost 100%. And she's like, well, I brought in $25 million for the firm. And that's when he's like, we'll take it. For me, as someone who has always paid top tier, and it felt like a brick wall because she's sitting there like, I literally brought in $25 million, and you're paying me 125. Like, well, yeah.

[Jen]

I mean, we got asked recently by someone on our social media if there's a conversion factor from sales credits to dollar pay. This basically goes to show that there Is, and that's 100% the case, especially in the analyst and associate program. It's like, hey, you brought in 25 million. If she brought in 26 or 27, she's still capped at that all in bonus level because she's in the analyst or associate program. Those ratios do come into play at more senior level when, like, you're both talking in units of millions of dollars. But even so, the conversion rate. Pretty meaningless.

[Kristen]

Yeah. Yeah. But no. So she's not thrilled, but she's not actively angry. And he jokes, he's like, let's go put a dent in that paycheck with some drinks. And she tells him that she has to go have dinner with Jesse. And so DVD says, my black at Wharton Group doesn't believe that we're covering him. He says that they get a real kick out of me saying, I watched me to Stake up close. And so Harper is like, well, he's a very private person. But she ultimately does say he can come along. As long as she leads, which I actually was surprised about. I was like, there's no way she's even letting him meet him. But she did. And then we'll obviously see what happens with that.

[Jen]

Well, DVD says, why are you so territorial? And she kind of shakes her head and doesn't respond. And she says, this does feel strange, though, not coming from Eric. Now she's referring to the bonus conversation. But I also think that's evocative of the fact that Eric is constantly trying to fight for territory with her with whose clients are whose. And so DVD is trying to muscle in on her relationship with Jesse here, which you would expect coming from Eric. So I think there's that twofold meaning there of like, oh, interesting that it's not coming from Eric on both fronts.

[Kristen]

Yeah. So next scene, we're back with Eric, and he's talking to his wife, Candace, and saying, it's one thing to sideline me, but paying my guys down when they've gotten through hell this year is unacceptable. Which, by the way, like, we're going to find out. Like, they didn't get paid down. So his wife then says, are you sure you don't want to sit this one out? And he's like, I pay my team, not some fucking kid who owes me his career. You don't just get to hand out the checks. It's a privilege you earn. Meanwhile, as you said, you're like, most people actually don't want to be the ones in those conversations.

[Jen]

So, like, he shows his true colors so quickly in this conversation because he's like, it's about my team. They've been such troopers. And then he's like, it's about me. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is 100% about his ego. It's not about his team.

[Kristen]

Yep. And. And so they then start talking, and she's like, oh, you know, Danny, wasn't he that handsome black kid from Connecticut? He was a sweetie. And Eric is like, would you call him handsome? Which is such something that all. Guys. Does your husband do this, too? Like, anytime I'm like, oh, that guy's attractive. Or like, some actor, he's like, is he? He's like, I don't know. I can't tell if men are attractive.

[Jen]

I think my husband's much more secure than I. And he'll always be like, oh, okay, I see how it is. Whereas he'll be like, hey, babe. Like, you know, I heard they have a new chef at XYZ restaurant. I'll be like, oh, did you go there with your other girlfriend? And he'll be like, we literally went there together last week. I'm like, you know, oh, that's so funny. Each other a lot. But I will say this. It introduces this element of. And I don't think Eric actually perceives DVD as his sexual rival, but it does introduce that thought, which I think is interesting as we start to think about these mentor mentee relationships throughout the rest of this episode.

[Kristen]

Yep. And so anyway, Candace then says, it's not like we need anything else. These are formative years for our girls. Which I took as like, aka, you can retire. Right. She does. Well, they've gotten tons of money over the years.

[Jen]

Need anything else? When she first said that, I thought she meant, like, it's not like we need any more drama between us. But then I realized she was talking monetarily. Yeah, I totally. I agree with you saying that's what. But it was interesting that I had that initial reaction. Like, stop being dramatic. We don't need anything else going on. Like, whatever. There might be troubles between them. She is suggesting that he retires and.

[Kristen]

Stays with the kids. Well, because she says, they need you at home. And he's just like, do not insinuate what I think you're insinuating. I'm as motivated and fresh as I've ever been. I have to do this face to face. So he then goes and gets a suitcase as well as his cigarettes, which, again, they literally are a thing throughout this whole episode. And we're not really sure where he's going because, like, why is he getting a suitcase to go into?

[Jen]

So also, when he opens that pack of cigarettes, very specifically, he flips one cigarette around in the carton and then closes it back up. I have no idea why I know this, but I think this is like an old World War II superstition. And I've never been a smoker, but I think there's something about the last cigarette that you save a special one. And it has this meaning of living to the end of the day in wartime. But also, cigarettes now have the filter on one side, so you can tell the difference. It used to be that the brand name was on the butt of the cigarette, and US Soldiers in wartime would smoke the cigarettes, but first so that the enemy couldn't figure out from the cigarette butts in the dirt that they would leave behind which soldiers had been there. So I do think so.

[Kristen]

Interesting.

[Jen]

Maybe I'm totally reading too much into this. I don't know why I know this.

[Kristen]

I mean, that is the only thing that makes sense, that there was that meaning, because to me, the whole cigarette thing was like, did he try to quit? And then he's, like, trying to hold himself back. Well, no, no. I mean, we've talked.

[Jen]

I mean, we literally.

[Kristen]

This whole. This whole month, we've been, like, talking about, like, drugs, alcohol and addiction and going sober and all this kind of stuff. I literally had a friend who messaged me yesterday who was like, thank you so much for talking about this. She's like, I've been in recovery for 13 years. I can't just have one. Because then I so it. To me, I would thought he was trying to hold back having a cigarette because he knew he would then continue to smoke. And I was like, where did this come from? Like, it's never been mentioned. So our whole interpretation makes so much more sense.

[Jen]

The theme of addiction is the theme of this episode.

[Kristen]

That's also true.

[Jen]

That is the theme of this episode. Because you can see he's acting like an addict. He's acting secretive. He's concealing his behavior. He's not being forthcoming with everyone. He's got these grand schemes, right? And so his behavior with the cigarettes is how they're showing that. So you're 100% right on that front. I just had to throw in, apparently, some wartime lore.

[Kristen]

No, I like the wartime. To me, that makes a lot of sense. And I do think that the writers here are very thoughtful about a lot of the stuff that they do, minus the sex, which we're going to talk about. But, like, so much of the plot, I feel like, is so thoughtful and, like, so well crafted. This isn't just someone, like, just, like, writing down a freaking story and putting it out the way that I would.

[Jen]

Right.

[Kristen]

To me, it's like a work of art. So I'm with you. But anyway, so next scene, Yaz and Maximo talking. And Yaz is basically, like, trying to get ready to move the funds from their family office to PeerPoint. And so she's like, look, in preparation for this, I need access to the historical records. And Maxim is like, your team. You moved over. And she says, no, not officially, because, remember, she's straddling FX and private wealth management. And she says this feels like some sort of interview, sort of practical interview.

[Jen]

Meaning almost like you'd be put in the seat and given an evaluation before.

[Kristen]

They decide you move over your family money.

[Jen]

Exactly.

[Kristen]

Which is messed up.

[Jen]

She's glowing, by the way. Like, don't you realize that Celeste used for my money?

[Kristen]

I know. So Maxim says he doesn't think it's the right time and that the last thing your father needs is any kind of instability or lack of visibility about where his money is.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Kristen]

So we know something is going on with her dad. And so Yaz is like, well, with all respect, I think I'm in the best position to decide what's best for my family's money. Clearly not true, because her motivation is so, so colored by wanting to get in with peerpoint. It's so crazy that because her drive is so much to just do good at her job, it's like she doesn't care about the actual financial consequences of moving her money to pure point. It's more like she just wants to get in good with this test where her boss is trying to use her for her money.

[Jen]

Well, it's so interesting. It's like Pennywise and pound foolish, right? She's like, who cares about my family's whatever bajillions of dollars? Me and my $225,000 salary at Fairpoint is like all that matters.

[Kristen]

Right.

[Jen]

Like, I really have to preserve this.

[Kristen]

Right. It's crazy. So Maxim then says, I don't need to tell you how naive that is. It's a planet sized conflict of interest. He says a key tenet of personal investment is it should be emotionless. Forgive me for getting personal, but we both know your father is in the midst of a divorce. And as someone that is actually deeply across this stuff, now is the time for him to stay as liquid as possible. And yes, is now starting to get a little bit like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on? She's like, is there a liquidity issue? And Maxim is like, just trust me. And so like, yes, there's a divorce, but also he's being a little sketch. Yeah.

[Jen]

I mean, there's so many layers to this. Because first of all, he says that the key tenet of this investing theoretically should be that it's emotionless. But they're also having this conversation as two people who have been sleeping together. So that's got that dual meaning there. He's like, not to get personal. This is so personal. Okay. And, and also we did a really great interview that's going to be coming out in a few weeks with a celebrity divorce attorney. And like, by implying that liquidity is potentially a concern with her dad's assets, it immediately gets you thinking, like, okay, is he trying to hide his assets for the divorce? Does he owe his wife a huge settlement for something? Like, what is up? We knew so little about and still do know so little about how this works in the US I know even less about international divorce.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Jen]

I lurk on these Facebook mom groups. And all the time when somebody is like, oh, I'm thinking of leaving my husband, all the women like, bitch, here's what you got to do. Move the money, get it out of the account right now. Like, do all this blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, like, is that what's happening here from, like, in a forensic accounting standpoint with her dad? Also throughout this episode, the way I physically think about Maxim, he seems to get smaller and smaller and smaller in my mind, and I wonder how much of that is. Like, in the first season, he was the big, sexy hedge fund guy.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Jen]

And now he's like, you know, inferior.

[Kristen]

He's working for her.

[Jen]

Yeah. And I feel like they dressed him differently or, like, I don't know, something. But did you get that feeling? Is that my personal bias? That, like, I perceive the guy who's, like, in the sexier role to be physically bigger and taller and more attractive? I just. It blew my mind. I was so sensitive to it. I was like, oh, he looks kind of gross in this. Like, he looks.

[Kristen]

Yeah, yeah, no, no. I 100% agree with everything you said. So now, next scene, we are with Aurora. So she's the person who was in parliament and Gus is with her. So we know from last season he was interested in getting into politics. He sat down with her at the Grouse shoot and it seems that he's now basically working for her because she's thanking him for doing her admin. And so he tells her that he created talking points for this antitrust meeting with the Health Select Committee. And he has info on one medical, which we said we, like, thought, right, can was similar to Rycan and then Fast Aid, which is going to be a new made up company that we're introduced to again, more later. So she thanks him and says that she doesn't actually need him to do any of this. Like, she seems kind of like, she's like, just do my admin and, like, leave me alone.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

Gus is like, let me do all this stuff and, like, impress you. And she's like, no, no, my admin. He's literally.

[Jen]

She literally wants him to do the shit work. Which.

[Kristen]

Which is ironic. Which he will literally be doing. Yes. And so he's like, maybe I could sit in on a session. And as they're talking, there's this person outside who starts screaming, where is that woman? And Aurora is just like, Fuck. Not this. Not her again. Hold down the fort here. Actually, this is great. She says, I know this doesn't seem like the most glamorous work, but we like our constituents to know they have the ear of the mp. And as she says this, she sneaks away and leaves Gus to deal with the crazy dude. So anyway, this guy walks in and he says, some pricks love having the Tory boot on their throats after so many years. So he ends up coming in and he has this, like, container of. We find out it's like poop. And he says that someone is leaving it outside of his house as a threat. And he says, your boss is never here. I'm a constituent. I want the elected official, not a mini me. And again, it's clear that for all the talk that Aurora just said about, like, we want our constituents to feel like whatever, she just doesn't actually give a shit about that. But anyway, the guy basically hands him the box of poop and it was disgusting. But basically, the takeaway is Aurora doesn't actually seem like she actually gives a shit about her constituents. The Gus deals with a crazy person who basically leaves him a box of shit. Anything else?

[Jen]

Nope. Gus has gone from doing the shit work at Pierre Point to doing the shit work in the government.

[Kristen]

Seriously. Okay, so now, next scene, we're with Yaz and Celeste. They're, like, dressed up and it, like, sort of looks very pretty, like walking down London. And Celeste is saying, I love the design of vintage Adani classics. And yeah, it's like, with the fuchsia spines, I used to love those. She also says, I don't really like the look of the new stuff. They've done the high fashion thing of making everything sans serif, which is like the font, because again, they're like a publishing house.

[Jen]

So, like, first of all, book spines, it was nothing short of a Herculean effort to even get me to buy a Kindle. I would open my books and I would never even crack the binding. And then finally I got a Kindle and whatever. And it's funny because when we were going through our branding exercise, I remember they suggested a logo with the serif, and I was like, yes, love a serif. Like, let's do it. So I appreciated that.

[Kristen]

I actually don't think I'd heard of the term serif until we had that conversation. So I'm getting cultured.

[Jen]

Yeah, you're in the now.

[Kristen]

I know. So anyways, she says, I don't think my dad's in charge of those creative decisions. Anymore. And Celeste replies, I guess when they went sheep to kkr, they relinquished all creative control. Yes. In other words, she's saying that they sold the publishing house to kkr, a private equity firm, which, by the way, private equity firms are known for buying businesses and then quote, unquote, like, improving them. But by, quote, unquote, improving them, you're trying to increase the profitability. So a lot of times cutting costs and increasing revenues, but again, cutting costs. So that makes sense that, like, when they sold some of the elevated brand, stuff started to basically be like, that's a synergy, that's a cost cutting initiative. We don't need to focus on that. So that all kind of traps, but.

[Jen]

Also, what a fucking bond to drop. Yasmin looks like she had no idea. Like, how did you not know that your family's company got sold to a private equity firm?

[Kristen]

Is that this is the first bond? Yeah, this is. What?

[Jen]

Are you kidding me? Like, first of all, how would you not know that? Like, there would be headlines, you know?

[Kristen]

So this is, like, all news to us as the viewer. And then also, it seems to Yaz, who is going to continue to have, like, one bombshell after the next. Keep dropping. Yeah. And so at this point, Yaz is now trying to open up to Celeste about how she's having trouble wrangling Maxim for due diligence. And Celeste says, let me guess, you stopped sleeping with him. And now he's pouting. Anyway, she changes the subject and says, it was good of your father to invite me. And Yaz is like, I invited you. So they walk in to this. It almost looks like an art show.

[Jen]

I don't know, an exhibit of, like, vintage book covers, I guess.

[Kristen]

It's very strange. And so they walk in, and Yaz asks where her dad is. And Max, he's, like, sitting there sipping champagne, and he said, papa got tickets to Rigoletto last minute, invited him. So just to be clear, it seems that Max's dad invited Yaz's to this opera called Rigoletto, so neither of us was familiar with it. I did use our friend chatgpt.

[Jen]

Hang on. Just the fact that he's not there, like, it seems. I sincerely doubt that it's a coincidence. Right. That he's not there. Like, right. You know? Well, I'm sure Maxim, who is trying to withhold information from Yaz, wasn't like, let's all have the family together for a conversation.

[Kristen]

Yeah. Well, so Rigoletto is this tragic opera about a court jester who attempts to protect his Daughter Gilda from a predatory duke.

[Jen]

And okay, very fitting.

[Kristen]

And after the duke seduces the daughter, Gilda Rioletto seeks revenge, hires an assassin, but basically Gilda sacrifices herself to save the duke who she loves. And so in the end, his plan basically backfires.

[Jen]

And so glad you looked it up. So it is about someone trying to protect their daughter in this huge thing that ultimately backfires and blows up.

[Kristen]

That. And I'm not gonna give too much away, but this all tracks so well with the plot.

[Jen]

Like, don't tell me because I'm still only one episode at a time. So you get the real reactions without any foreshadowing from me.

[Kristen]

Yeah, this was not an accident. This was picked. But to your point, yeah. She's like, what the fuck? Like, why didn't no one tell me that. That he wasn't gonna be here? So they start talking and Yaz asks, why are you being so obtuse with me when it comes to my family? Did you know that the Hananis had nothing to do with this event anymore when I met the company? Well, that. Yeah, that too. The whole thing. And he says, of course I did. And so she's like, why is nobody fucking communicating with me? So he tells her that everyone is trying to protect her, right? And she's like, that is so paternalistic. And so she then says, can't you be mature enough to let us fucking go? We fudge twice. You hold it over my head like I owe you something. And she says, I want to know where my family's fucking money is. And Maxim says, do you want a list? It's a mismatch of diversification. Gotti condos in Miami, some two bed hotel in Helsinki, a rapeseed oil renewable energy startup in gdans. The Hanani name. Well, you have nothing to do with the publishing house anymore. And Maxim finally says, just speak to your father. So she finally sort of is getting answers, which is like, you need to speak to your dad. But like also, duh. Yeah, but also like this is.

[Jen]

I'm sitting there wondering at this point, like, is it all just a house of cards? Does this family have any wealth anymore? Like, is it all just smoke and mirrors at this point? And her dad being so obnoxious in these meetings, showing up in his biker kit, being like, oh, you should be so lucky to have my money. I don't know, blah, blah, blah. Is it all just a farce? That's what I'm thinking watching this.

[Kristen]

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[Jen]

They're doing cocaine and. And Celeste is holding a lighter. Maybe they're also smoking cigarettes.

[Kristen]

I don't know. I thought it was like the role.

[Jen]

Does pick up the lighter.

[Kristen]

Yeah, but it looked like it was like a role.

[Jen]

So like a rolled up dollar bill I'm with. I didn't understand either. But I will say this. Yasmin has lied to Celeste and told her that she got it all sorted. And that's when Celeste says that thing. They want women to be equal until you start acting like them. This made me think of the conversation that Yasmin had early on with her mom in episode one when she was doing the salad runs and her mom was like, women, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is women within the workplace issue. Well, the person who is putting Yasmin in this compromised position is Celeste. Maxim's not the one actually causing problems here. Maxim thinks he's trying to do right by this girl he has this whole history with and he's trying to protect her from her fucked up father. Her father is deliberately concealing information from her and Celeste is just using everybody. So this whole thing about like men like, blah, blah, blah, like they don't like powerful women.

[Kristen]

No. You at all.

[Jen]

Yeah. You have your boot on Yasmin's neck. Like to use the words of the crazy poop guy from.

[Kristen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jen]

And then she drops the lighter rolled up, wad of dollar bills, whatever it is, asks Yasmin to pick it up and it becomes this weird sexual thing.

[Kristen]

Right.

[Jen]

I was like, what's happening here?

[Kristen]

Yes. This goes back to some of the themes from the prior season with women. First of all, this performative feminist.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

And she's the one who was being wildly inappropriate. It's not Maxim. It's not because she was sleeping with him. Maxim's like, actually trying to protect her because he knows more about what's going on with the money. And by the way, like, the money probably shouldn't be moved over to peerpoint. I don't think that's in the best interest of the family. There is a conflict of interest. Yeah. So, I mean, it's. It's back to almost like the season one finale when Sarah was trying to be like, it's us and Daria, like, we're gonna be coming in and like, doing things better. And it's like, you're not doing it better. You're just as toxic. You're just different. And the same thing here where it's like there is sexual harassment going on on behalf of this frickin MD and an analyst. It just happens to be. It's a woman md. So I do like the show because it doesn't discriminate. It's like everyone can be problematic.

[Jen]

I haven't seen Baby Girl yet, but that's what I thought of with this. Have you seen the ads for that movie Baby Girl?

[Kristen]

For those of you who aren't familiar, it's Nicole Kidman and she plays a tech CEO who has an affair with some young guy at the end of the world. Oh, I never saw that. But anyway, I want to see Baby Girl. I've heard, though, it's. It was like, it's basically a porto. It's like, don't go see it with strangers in it.

[Jen]

We. We're sitting here, the prudes fast forwarding through industry. So what are we.

[Kristen]

Yes, I know, but I still do want to see it because I love Nicole Kidman. So anyway, next scene. We knew that Harper was supposed to meet Jesse for dinner and she has invited DVD to come along. So they're at this dive bar or a pub.

[Jen]

Looks like her and.

[Kristen]

Yeah, yeah, dvd. Yeah, like Carly's.

[Jen]

Oh, my God.

[Kristen]

So dedede is talking about Fast Aid. Like he's trying to impress Jesse with this pitch and he says Fast Aid, which, by the way, we are getting introduced to because it's not a real company. I looked this up so he says Fast Aid is a traditional.

[Jen]

Wait, is Rican a real company?

[Kristen]

No, neither I can. The only real company that they mentioned, when Gus was talking about the companies in that space, he mentioned One Medical. Obviously that's a real company that was sold to Amazon, but then the other two are fake. So they're now trying to establish what is the actual business that this company Fast Aid does. It does become a major player.

[Jen]

Okay, got it later on.

[Kristen]

So that's why I do want to just, you know, spend the time going through the auction. This is the finance business and this is the finance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So DVD says Fast Aid is a traditional brick and mortar pharmacy to which Jesse says, like Walgreens and I soar in every quarter. Which, yes, there's Walgreens. That's like the New York City pharmacy for people who are international. So DVD says behemoths like Amazon and Apple are looking to consolidate in the healthcare space. By the way, Amazon bought One Medical. I. I don't actually know. I'm curious if they bought it because they had mentioned One Medical and I'm curious when this episode came out if it was already owned by Amazon. But anyway, so behemoths like Amazon and Apple are looking to consolidate in the health care space. And part of that is circling these slow death high street retail spaces with nosebleed short basis.

[Jen]

When you say nosebleed short base, to me, that just means everyone's short on these things. They're going down the drain. Everyone short the stock.

[Kristen]

Yes. So the. Yeah, so the high street resale space is basically just these are properties on high streets. So like the main shopping streets in towns and cities where you're probably going to be paying like prime high value, you know, Fifth Avenue. Right. And yeah, the nosebleeds short basis again, in this context, no sleep means obviously extremely high. You know, think no speed seats in the stadium and then short bases again to the current situation within finance. Right. You can like short stuff. So 100 to say this too.

[Jen]

We are going to have an episode coming out with the head of an equity long short strategy who talks a lot about running net short positions and things like that. So if you guys want a companion to this little segment, she has a lot of great information that hopefully we'll be sharing on the big podcast.

[Kristen]

Yeah. Which is going to be coming out like tomorrow by the time this episode airs, probably today, probably the same day, probably like we're possibly like a couple of days behind. So he then says the next biggest issue facing telemedicine is the last mile of care. The pipeline of people need needing annual booster shots is endless. And you can't get those done online. And Jesse says, not yet. Until the iPhone gets that retractable syringe. DVD responds only so many times. You can upgrade your fucking camera. Right. But for now, you need a physical location. And Jesse then turns to Harper and asks, what's your take on this?

[Jen]

Sorry, one thing I wanted to say thinking about this, when this was written and filmed, this was in the height of COVID vaccines. And remember, it was like, you're going to have to get a booster for like every new variant and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So like us watching something now about what's the last mile of health care, thinking about getting access to those vaccines was top of mind in the global consciousness when this was probably written and filmed, as opposed to us watching it now. It didn't land the same way. And I had to remind myself like, oh, yeah, everyone was losing their minds about how to distribute these vaccines effectively. And so I think at this point, prior to Harper jumping in Jesse's attitude and demeanor, he looks like he's vibing well with dvd, and DVD looks like he's keeping up with Jesse by kind of matching him tone for tone on that little joke about Apple with its retractable syringe, Jesse seems to be looking favorably and like he's buying what DVD is selling.

[Kristen]

Yeah, and it honestly, it makes sense. By the way, I did look up the Amazon deal to buy one medical was announced in 2022. So this is like that, which this was like, very precious. Exactly. But by the way, what he is saying makes sense. You do need physical locations to go actually get seen to get blood drawn. So, like, everything he says makes sense.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

But then obviously, Jesse then says to Harper, what is your take on this? And she says, it's compelling, but slightly reductive in the sense that the bull case is what, an acquisition target. I still think Rycan is the telemedicine play and you could not be better positioned for it now. And DVD says, yeah, but as you say, Jesse already owns that. And Jesse responds, you're compelling. And I got to concede you're oddly watchable. I feel like I'm talking to a young congressman. He then thanks both of them. And Harper then suggests that he eat something. And he says he has a dinner. And Harper's like, I thought this was dinner. And he says, well, Leo had this window on short notice. Which if that's true, I wasn't sure if that was A lie or not, because we later see Leo. But if that is true, it is so funny how it's like, here's this big important guy, kind of like what you were talking about at the very beginning. And like all he wants is to get like these crumbs of attention from his son. Like we thought when we first got introduced to him, he's like supposed to do this tennis thing with his son. His son just cancels on him. He moved all the way to London to be near his son. Now his son says he has like two minutes and he's like, wait a second, I will come. You know what I mean? So it is funny how it's like these big scary people, they are at the width of Leo, who's this soft spoken dweeb almost, who's not cool, like kind of a dork. But I also, like, don't know how much of it was true because we later see what he's actually doing.

[Jen]

So, yeah, I assumed when Jesse said, I gotta go, he was lying and this would happen all the time. By the way, you take a client out and be like, oh, we've booked a great dinner reservation, let's meet for drink first. And if they didn't like the conversation, they would have and they'd be like, oh, I have other plans, sorry, something came up my family. And they would just bail. So I thought he was just leaving because something was like, I thought he might just be lying and trying to leave. Now when we see Leo later, Leo says, I had to put in some FaceTime with Jesse. So I think Jesse called Leo and said, meet me for dinner.

[Kristen]

I actually did get the sense that he was jiving with dvd. But yeah, it's definitely. And also like mercurial. That's true. We don't really know when he likes things.

[Jen]

He might be like, I got a bail.

[Kristen]

Yeah, but again, I thought that DVD made very. It went well, went great for dvd. And I thought that he made some really great points. And you clearly see that Harper is getting threatened when she then says, it's compelling but slightly reductive, by the way, being like, I need to now downplay his ideas.

[Jen]

I think dvd. I mean, he is watching like he is. He is so polished, handsome, well spoken, funny. Harper has this super volatile history of trying to make pitches and she kind of pulls it out in the 11th hour with this like Hail Mary thing. But just as much as she does that, she has meltdown. She has this. She has. That DVD is like, yeah, the Run for President.

[Kristen]

Yeah. But then at the end. It's so funny too, because basically Jesse's like, great to meet you, and dvd, like, kids of his business card, which.

[Jen]

Which is pathetic.

[Kristen]

Which, yeah, is like, super cheesy. But that whole scene, you see that territorial aspect coming out. You see Harper now thinking, I need to make sure that my client is not going to go off and I need to protect that.

[Jen]

Yep.

[Kristen]

So next scene, we're now in New York, so we don't know that we're in New York. But you see Eric show up at a hotel room and says, like, welcome, Eric Tao. And you hear a siren in the background. Classic New York City. And then he goes out to look outside and you see the Empire State Building. So we know he is like the suitcase he flew over to New York. So we'll. We'll be in New York for half of the episode. So next we're with Nicole and Robert, and there's a whole bunch of, like, very uncomfortable sex scenes in this particular episode. But Nicole and Robert are making out and she says she doesn't usually let people in and he wants to turn on the light. And she's like, no, no, no. You don't want to see this old bag and sort of being vulnerable with him. And as they're kind of making out, he basically says he likes the Fast Aid Chemist group as a buy. And she laughs. But you do see, like, he seems like he's starting to develop feelings for her.

[Jen]

This seems intimate. This seems like it's not transactional. Even though he makes that, like, I think it's very funny that he is like, oh, and by the way, we love Fast Aid Medical. And she's like, what? While they're hooking up and I'm totally with you, she seems vulnerable. She's feeling self conscious about being older. He's making her feel more comfortable. And I do think, think it's notable that they're not actually having sex. And I'm also like, but was it actually just a joke that you were pitching fast aid? Like, that's absurd.

[Kristen]

But yeah, yeah, yeah, well. But it also seems like it's in line with whatever the quote unquote, like, house view going on at your point. So I think that that's probably part of it as well. Like they're all like, pitching. Pitching fast aid for whatever reason. So next scene, this is sort of just a quick thing, but we do learn that Celeste has a wife because Yaz and Celeste go outside. Yaz is like, where are we off to next? And Celeste says her wife has her On a midnight curfew, midweek. So we know that she's into women, right? We know that she's married. And as she leaves, Yaz is like, okay, I was probably right that she was hitting on me. And across the street, she sees Maxim.

[Jen]

You see Maxim. And the metaphorical divide between them now is such a literal one. And he just literally, like I said, he looks so small, you know, like, he keeps shrinking physically in terms of how they film him, even within the episode.

[Kristen]

Yeah. So next scene, we're at the three amigos house. Harper, Robert, and Gus.

[Jen]

I wrote down that it was the friend's apartment from hell.

[Kristen]

Oh, love it. So Gus is telling them about the dog poo or the poop, and he says, maybe you should call in a favor with some, like, random, like, gynecologist.

[Jen]

Who is returning old classmate.

[Kristen]

Right? They're like, maybe you should have him.

[Jen]

Like, analyze this sample.

[Kristen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's what they. He ultimately does that. He, like, sets it off to get analyzed. And Harper's like, I don't understand how someone well educated as you is satisfied doing this. And Gus replies, helping people. To which Harper laughs. And she's like, that's why you got into it. Like, she knows his ambitions are well beyond that. It is politics. So Robert then asks if his parents know what he's doing, to which he says, his parents still think he works at Purepoint. Like, excuse me, by the way, you've.

[Jen]

Been doing your morning book clubs with them. So, like, when did they think you were doing this in your investment banking job? I thought you were writing your novel. Like, what?

[Kristen]

I know. So Robert and Harper, they just look at each other like, oh, my God. And then Leo walks in. So Leo is in a robe saying, Mr. Sacky, I'm still here. So clearly something is going on with Gus and Leo, which need the high school hookup. No, you said that last time. Why is he getting freaking naked in a pond? But also, it wasn't like there was any sexual tension. It was purely.

[Jen]

No, there was definitely. I totally disagree. Leah was like, why are you with a slut like me? Leo was definitely giving him signals. But to your point, I thought Gus had no interest, because I was like, I don't think the show's gonna go there where this, you know, older man in his 20s is sleeping with a high schooler. I didn't think we needed to go there, but nope, we went there. We're there. Yep.

[Kristen]

I mean, and they do acknowledge that because Harper says, I'm not gonna tell you what to do. But please bear in mind who introduced you to that kid and how your actions might reflect back on me. Yeah, but she cares more about the.

[Jen]

Fact that it could ruin her perception with Jesse if this goes bad. Yeah. Like the ethics of sleeping with a minor.

[Kristen]

Well, because Gus says, would we really refer to him as a child? And Harper says, yes. And Robert looks at him and says, look, mate, if he's legal, go with God. And so Gus replies, I'm with God. I'm going now. Basically saying, he's legal, but it's still. Like, we didn't need that. Like, no, no, I'm with you.

[Jen]

So he was his tutor. This is the theme mentor mentee relationship that is totally up and sexualized within this episode. He was literally paid to help him with his college applications.

[Kristen]

Again, like, every single freaking interaction. I mean, we're gonna have Harper. And, like, it's. It's. It's. It's everywhere. So as Gus leaves, someone knocks on the door to their apartment, and it's Yaz. Robert is like, hey, I'm gonna leave. And Harper is like, please don't. Like, this is gonna be awkward. And I literally wrote. I'm like, I don't remember what happened with them. Why would it be awkward for Harper if we're okay. So rewinding. Because I needed this. Like, I literally started to remember as watching the scene the end of season one ended with them having a massive falling out.

[Jen]

Yes. No. And remember the first few episodes of season two?

[Kristen]

They're fighting. Yeah. So I don't know why I forgot. This is the problem with having watched the whole thing is that, like, you know what I mean? Forget, like, which plot is when for.

[Jen]

Me, it's so top of mind. I'm shocked when Yaz shows up.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Jen]

I'm like, why is she here again? She showed up in the prior episode and. Yeah. And was looking for Harper, which was shocking because why would she be looking for Harper in her time of need? Because Harper hates her.

[Kristen]

It seems like she's, like, her only female friend.

[Jen]

Yes. And friendless and alone and on an island. And now she doesn't have Maxim. She doesn't really have Celeste. Because that's getting weird fast. Right.

[Kristen]

She doesn't have any good female friends. And I think female friends. It's the same with. With men. Male friends if you're a guy. Female friends if you're a woman. I think they're so important for when you need to talk about things.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

And so, again, to me, this is her. And what happened in the last episode is like her basically realizing she needs her friend back. And she doesn't know exactly how to go about reconciling. She just knows she wants her friend back. And she comes in and Yaz has to go use the bathroom. So Harper and Robert talk for a couple minutes and Robert says, mate, she's got needs that I can't meet. Good celebration. Yeah. And then said, I thought they paid me well, but I forgot who my competition was. And Harper is surprised. So she said, they paid you well. And Robert asked why that's a surprise. And she says, I heard the desk was down. That's good, you're doing well. And Robert shares his relationship with Nicole is helping in that regard. He says, you know, Nicole is one of one. She's a funny fucker. And Harper says, I'm just glad she's keeping it professional. Robert seems very surprised and upset by that comment. And then he asked what she meant and she says, oh, no, no, no, no, it's nothing. You know, we just had a moment. And again, he's upset because he thinks that he has something special with her. And he's like, I was the only.

[Jen]

One who got sexually harassed.

[Kristen]

Yeah, I thought I was the only one. He's like, what kind of moment? Because he's genuinely developed feelings for this again, like.

[Jen]

And who is taking advantage of their power over him.

[Kristen]

Yes, Robert is very upset and he's hurt.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

So we can fast forward over Leo and Gus kissing. I don't need the high school hookup. So now we're with Yaz and Harper and Yaz asks if she can do coke in the living room. And which, by the way, I already.

[Jen]

Assumed she had done in the bathroom. And she's like, oh, I don't like doing it in the bathroom. I'm like, you don't usually seem to mind. Mind. Like, I assumed you were in there doing coke. What a refreshing surprise that now you're doing it on the coffee table.

[Kristen]

Yes. And Harper says, it's fine, we're celebrating. And yes. It's like, are we? And Harper's like, well, yeah, we got paid. And Yaz acts like she forgot because I think she probably was like, paid bottom tier. And she was like, oh, yeah, pocket money. But also, even if she was paid £125,000, that still would be pocket money to where her wealth is, you know.

[Jen]

Although I don't think she thinks about it in that respect. And I. That's actually important because Harper thinks she does. Harper thinks that Yaz is like, I'm so rich. Who cares about another $220,000 that doesn't even touch the sides, right? But yes, is saying that sarcastically. I don't think she's saying that, like, I'm so rich, this money, like, doesn't even make a dent in my Scrooge McDuck bin.

[Kristen]

I think she's got, like, bottom tier.

[Jen]

She probably got bottom tier. And I do think that she's trying to be relatable. Like, oh, my gosh, like, aren't we all so rich? Right? Like. But, like, for Harper, this is everything. And Yaz is just so unaware. And for Harper, too, there's that mine versus yours mentality. They are on opposite sides of this conversation from the jump. They're having two totally different lines of dialogue.

[Kristen]

Yeah, well, because Yaz says, I didn't think about money once during the year. Not once. And Harper says, if you thought I was going to absolve you of whatever rich white passing guilt you have. And then Yaz jumps in and says, I'm not doing that. I don't feel guilty. But because I think that, yes, she just wants to, like, fast forward where they're not friends and she just wants to be friends again. And she's just like. She doesn't want to have any awkward conversations. Just is like, I need my friend back and I'm just going to talk to you the way like, we used to talk. And Harper is still holding on to what happened and is like, what the fuck? So Yas then says, I spent Covid going from enormous kitchen to enormous kitchen session.

[Jen]

What does session mean? I don't.

[Kristen]

That I'm not sure I'm looking up. In ChatGPT, an abbreviation of the word.

[Jen]

Session may relate to drinking, smoking pot, excessive computer gaming, or anything else that lasts a prolonged period of time. I think it just means partying. Because she did say in that first episode back from COVID how many super spreader events she went to. So that makes sense.

[Kristen]

So she says, I became obsessed with finding the perfect white pajamas. On one of those tabs, I would have these white pajamas, and on the other, these images of piles of bodies in New York. You know, the economy, all the shit through the fucking screen. So I'd cycle through them. I was too fucked to sleep. And then I'd buy these pajamas in four or five sizes and the returns would be all marked up for my convenience. I still have every single pair. The ones that fit made me feel really fucking good for a bit. The worst part is, it was the best fucking summer of my life. All I had to worry about was pajamas. And then she takes a drink of champagne. So there's clearly some meaning to these white pajamas that she was obsessed with finding. And on her computer screens, the back and forth. And I think that part of it is like her just partying it up. Meanwhile there's people dying. I. I know a lot of families felt that way, even for me. I was living in New York City and I had a brand new baby April 2020. But there was like the silver lining to it because my husband was home more. I got to live with my parents and my in laws and it was family time, which was great. But then again it was like there was that reality. Like my sister in law was a PR doctor in New York City and there was this juxtaposition. So I think that that's part of it. But then I'm not sure what the white pajamas.

[Jen]

Well, I think your cognitive dissonance is something that makes sense to a lot of us. It's like the silver lining for you of COVID was like the increased family time or whatever, but while you were cherishing that time with your husband, your sister in law was out there literally putting her life at risk. Right. I think Yasmin is talking about that same kind of cognitive dissonance that she was experiencing, but with this super frivolous lens. You can think of nothing more frivolous than a pair of white pajamas. Like pair of white pajamas for me, I'm spilling coffee on that day one. I should never buy white clothes, period, Full stop. It's the kind of thing where nobody needs that. And I do remember this very surreal experience of your email box would be like quarantine in style. And then the next alert or whatever, it would be new death toll or freezer trucks, this awful stuff that was going on. I think she's trying to share that story of cognitive dissonance. But because she doesn't have any real meaningful relationships in her life, the only way she can do it is through the lens of those white pajamas. And I think that hearing the juxtaposition between you talking about it and her talking about it actually illustrates it better than I could have any other way.

[Kristen]

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[Jen]

Little bit late to one another. Yeah.

[Kristen]

Okay.

[Jen]

Set in your mind to a hammer, everything's a nail. To Harper, everything about Yaz is a have have not thing. So when Yaz is saying, do you ever wonder where you'd be without money? What's going through her mind is all the fucked up shit that she's starting to learn about her family and how the money has had control over her relationship with her father. And now it's all coming to be a fraud. The money is controlling her relationship with Celeste. The money is controlling her relationship with Maximum and it's all becoming A total clusterfuck. So that's what she's thinking about when she says, do you ever wonder where you'd be without money? What Harper hears is, oh, I spent a whole year not worrying about money during COVID You know, there were such bigger problems in the universe, and that was so refreshing. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I had the best summer of my life. Harper's like, what the fuck are you talking about? I was in the midst of a nervous breakdown, living in a hotel, and every single dollar I earned from peerpoint is literally changing my life. I have no idea what the things you're talking about mean to you. They mean nothing to me. And it's just further widening that divide.

[Kristen]

I feel Freeze so much. Like, please just be friends again.

[Jen]

I do, too. Again, I, for whatever reason, have always been sympathetic towards Yasmin, more so than Harper throughout this series thus far.

[Kristen]

Here's why. Here's why. Yaz is much more vulnerable, and I think Harper is more almost like the alpha. Harper just acts like she doesn't need anyone, and I'm the type of person that, like, needs people. And so I think that's why I relate to the Yaz energy and not the Harper energy.

[Jen]

Yeah. Female friendships are hard, man. I'm so lucky that I have you.

[Kristen]

Me too. I know.

[Jen]

I will say, guys, like, just on a personal note, yesterday I had an upsetting doctor's appointment. And it's funny because the first thing I thought of through my tears were literally the scene from the Right Hand Healthcare episode when they were like, does everyone just work in finance here? Or is anyone actually a doctor? And someone was like, pull up the Right Hand health care app or whatever. But it was so wonderful because I called you. You were the second person I called after I called my dad. I'm in tears, driving in the middle of nowhere, and within five seconds, you had me laughing, you had me feeling better, and you had, like, 10 different people in your network mobilized to not only talk me off my ledge, but be like, we're gonna make lemonade out of lemons or chicken salad out of chicken. I went from being like, oh, my God, my life is going to be forever changed in a terrible way, to being like, maybe I'm going to get a facelift. So it is so important to have those female friendships, not just when things are going well, but when things are going wrong. Like, I was so grateful for you.

[Kristen]

Oh, thank you. I mean, obviously, vice versa. And, like, you know that. But that's why with. I mean, Yaz is literally finding These horrible things out about her dad. Like it's just. And she, she just wants someone. So anyway, so next scene we're back in New York and I actually like this whole scene because there's some good, like juicy history stuff. So Eric, basically he's getting all dressed up. He's going to the Pierpoint offices and he's met by Adler and he greets him and they like talk a little bit, whatever, like nice cities. And Adler says, look, I have a meeting emergency. James Gorman, who by the way was the former Morgan Stanley CEO prior to the current 110.

[Jen]

He was the CEO when I was there. Yeah, yeah, John Mack for a little bit, but.

[Kristen]

And then they. Yep, yep, yep. So he wants to powwow with the current heads of fic. Right. So fixed income, currency and commodities. And Eric says a meeting of the five families. So I assume that would mean Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Pierpoint. Who do we think number five is?

[Jen]

Well, so to be clear, the meeting of the five families is a Godfather reference. I don't think there's actually just going to be five of them. So if you've never seen the Godfather, that probably didn't land. This is not a Wall street reference.

[Kristen]

I have seen the Godfather though. I just, I just. Yeah, I've seen the Godfather.

[Jen]

But that's why he says but with worse food.

[Kristen]

Got it. I was like, who is the fifth one?

[Jen]

Yeah, no, I mean they said a streetwide meeting. So it would be the bulge bracket banks. Right, The Goldman's, the bank cities, whoever.

[Kristen]

Yeah, yep, yep, yep. So Alderman says Morgan Stanley calling the shots. A cold day in hell. Slaves to the Japanese. So I want to quickly explain this. So in 2008, Morgan Stanley sold a stake to Mitsubishi. I've talked about this before. I was on the Converse desk sitting next to my boss who like needed a our monitor because he was so stressed out. But I remember the share price at the time of Morgan Stanley was like seven bucks. And they did this investment of preferred and warrants. And Mitsubishi was like, we're going to value you at fair value. We're going to do 2145. They could have been much more predatory anyway, so that's what they mean with the Japanese is because of the stake that they sold to Mitsubishi.

[Jen]

And I'm sorry, you may have said this. What was the size of stick? It was like 20% of the firm. Right.

[Kristen]

It was a 9 billion dollar investment for a 21 stake.

[Jen]

Oh, I was right.

[Kristen]

Oh, good. Which, which is in line because again, if you remember at the time, Warren Buffett made a. I, I think it was a 10 billion dollar investment. It possible it was 5.

[Jen]

That might have sounded right to me, but it might have been 5% or.

[Kristen]

I want to look this up. What.

[Jen]

5 is the number in my mind.

[Kristen]

You're right. 5 billion. Okay, so 5 billion. And Morgan Stanley was 9 billion. But they have significant influence, but they don't have control. So anyway, Eric then is like trying to get it back on target to what he wants to talk about. He says, bill, I came all the way here. I don't envision what I need to say is going to take longer than 20 minutes. And Adler says, look, I can clear a full day for you tomorrow. So they go up to a higher floor, right, so not on the trading floor. And he says, I thought you get a kick working out of your old mentor's office. Newman, poor bastard worked right up until the end. I don't know if he knew that he had died. I assume he didn't. I feel like Aaron. Oh, okay. So there was just like a couple of things. Eric, he's like a MAGA hat, which at the time, this is 2020, 2021. I feel like there has been a shift now there's a lot more people openly supporting Trump is back in office. Now Trump is back in office. That too. But also there has been a massive shift. I don't know anyone who was like, pro Trump in 2020. That was Finance New York, like, no. Now I know a lot more.

[Jen]

But never in a million years would anyone have a bag of hat, value their career, make their political opinions so well known that they had a hat or any kind of paraphernalia advertising that in the office, it would be so inappropriate. So I think the show writers know that. I do think they wanted to show something about what kind of character they were trying to build with Newman. This is more for exposition purposes than reality because no one would have that.

[Kristen]

There is not a political. And also, I don't think anyone would have like a Biden shirt in the office either. It's exactly.

[Jen]

No, it's your job. Like it's your place of work. It would be inappropriate. And I get they're trying to suggest that he was inappropriate and flouted these things, but, like, just for versimilitude, like just no guys that you wouldn't see that.

[Kristen]

Exactly. So anyway, Eric then picks up a headset and he calls CBD and he's like, I thought I would give you the courtesy of acknowledging your email like multiple days Late as he's now in, you know, New York City. And Divi says, the dealer board says you're in the Broadway office, which is just like Morgan Stanley. So Morgan Stanley was 1585 Broadway. Most of the other banks are not on Broadway. You have Morgan have, like a number of like, six office locations.

[Jen]

They're all. There's so many in midtown, like, at intersections near Broadway because Broadway runs on diagonal. So, like, this is true. Yeah.

[Kristen]

I actually wonder if the writers worked at Morgan Stanley at one point because they mention them more than, like, any other bank, at least in this particular episode.

[Jen]

Well, I think too, for laypeople, it's a very recognizable term.

[Kristen]

Yeah, that's true.

[Jen]

They're not going to be like Moelis.

[Kristen]

True. But it's so interesting because when we were applying, it was Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs and Lehman. Right, Lehman. Sorry, I brought about them.

[Jen]

They.

[Kristen]

Whatever, bankrupts. But those were like the ones that were kind of like held up in the pit of. Those are the most prestigious now. I've seen people who are like, I would take JP Morgan over Morgan Stanley. Which back then.

[Jen]

Well, no, hang on. Because it matters so much. Like, balance sheet. The world totally changed it. It's a total shifting in the dynamics of how the industry works that having a huge commercial bank became your biggest asset.

[Kristen]

But that's why I'm surprised, because Goldman has the same cachet. So I'm surprised that it's not like they picked Goldman to kind of be the one that they're talking about. They are picking Morgan Stanley. That has fallen a little bit just in the sort of perception right now.

[Jen]

Morgan Stanley has fallen in perception.

[Kristen]

Well, I mean, look, the fact that people are like, I picked JP Morgan over Morgan Stanley. I mean, nobody would do that back in the day.

[Jen]

Oh, I see what you're saying. I think it's also like, these message boards are to be taken with a grain of salt.

[Kristen]

Anyway, so dvd, ask Eric if he's still there. And Eric is basically going silent. He's like, looking through all of Newman's old things. He picks up a book, he finds some cigarettes.

[Jen]

Did you see the titles of any of those books?

[Kristen]

No.

[Jen]

By the way, I was trying to. I couldn't read any of them.

[Kristen]

Yeah, I guess the only thing we were supposed to see was the MAGA hat. So Eric's talking to DVD and he's kind of going silent because he's looking through all this stuff and DVDs like, are you still there? And Eric says, yeah, are you? And TV is like, what the. Like of course I'm still here. And Eric says, no, you're not, because I'm talking to an empty seat. So that was a threat. He's trying to get him fired. And as DVD hangs up, he's just like, fuck, yeah. So dvd, then, is, like, trying to go call someone.

[Jen]

He immediately grabs his cell phone. So, like, you're not allowed to use your cell phone on the trading floor, period, Full stop. You want to go have a call off the record, because all these phone lines are recorded, et cetera, et cetera. You're going to grab your cell phone, you're going to go walk outside.

[Kristen]

So he says he's going to go make a quick call. But then Harper, she wants to have this conversation about what just happened with Bloom. So she's like, she wants to trust dvd, but she knows what lights Bloom up. And that's the point of being close to the client, right? As, you know, what animates them. But she says, I want to do that by myself. And DVD says, I know Bloom needs to make room in his fun for Fast Aid, but it's a screaming bias. Such depressed levels. Talk to him about it again. And she says, I'll think about it. I'm territorial, right? I was raised by wolves. And they start to have a conversation about who their parents are. And DVD shares. He says, my dad slept with one of his students, my mom. One week in Greenwich, one week in Brooklyn. He seduced my mom and then married her. So that's why I was like, wait a second. But I thought you said one week in Greenwich, one week in Brooklyn. But it sounds like they actually got married. So were you for that? Or what was that?

[Jen]

And then divorced or. Or they had multiple houses. But, yeah, it's really important that his dad was his mom's professor. Again, we are establishing this pattern of people who are supposed to be in a position of authority, teacher, mentor, seducing the people that they shouldn't be. We've got Gus, we've got celeste, we've got DVDs, parents. They are hitting you over the head with it in this episode, that these are the relationships that these people view as normal.

[Kristen]

DVD says, part of me feels I deserve the world, and part of me feels kind of. Harper says, less than. And DVD says, yes, is the thing that Eric smells on people like blood. He gets validated by the idea of creating people in his image until they become him, but younger. He can't fucking live with that. And then Harper says, well, if he can't pull his weight, then he should move aside. And DVD says that she sounds just like him, which is 100% true. So then he starts to ask about her family. And this is the first time we get more color. She says her mom fled communist Hungary when she was 17 and married her dad. She didn't really let us see our dad. She says her mom was kind of a reptile. So it basically became Harper and her brother against her mom. And so her brother ran away. And I think that's the first time we learned this. DVD says, well, he's in Berlin, right? And Harper is, like, shocked that he remembers, which is, I think, surprising that he took an interest in her. There's been chemistry. Of course he's going to remember this stuff. DVDs just kind of like, why wouldn't I?

[Jen]

Also, he's a salesperson. You know, it's funny because there was that. There was that moment when everyone on the FX team was asking Yaz about Anna Gearing, and Yaz knew the names of all of Anna's children. And they were like, how did you find that secret info? And she was like, I asked. DVD asked Harper a question. She gave him an answer, and he remembered it like, these are basic sales premises. And Harper's like, does not compute.

[Kristen]

But she's also in sales, so, I.

[Jen]

Mean, yeah, but that's not her strength in sale. This strength in sales is not, you know, being caring and thoughtful and listening. It's what information can I use to my advantage.

[Kristen]

Yeah, you're so right. That to her, she's just like, what the. And she says, are you for real? You seem so well adjusted. How have you survived so long? And he replies, this is all I am face value. And then Harper asks if he wants to get Chinese at a place by her.

[Jen]

By the way, we know that Harper loves Chinese food. She, like, went to Panda Express and she was having her meltdown in college. She has hung out at this Chinese food restaurant before. She went and got her fortune cookies when it was the time for thrift day and stuff like that. But of course, presumably she's bringing him close to her home so they can consummate this tension between them.

[Kristen]

But then I didn't even make this connection.

[Jen]

Next, Chinese food. Yeah, we cut to another Chinese food restaurant.

[Kristen]

I just made that connection right now, which is, like, pathetic. So, next scene, Eric is at a restaurant with a woman, and it seems like the owner comes over to him, knows him, like, clearly he'd been there a bunch. And Eric says he was worried that the place would be all boarded up. And the owner says, well, we've had some trouble, but, you know. And Eric looks confused. And the woman that he's with says, worse, people in this country feel a lot braver. So remember, right, 2020, there was a lot of anti Asian crime because of where the COVID virus started. And so the owner then says to the woman, I'm sorry about your husband. Newman was one of a kind. Eric then says, you know that Chris Rock joke? Being a minority in America is like the uncle who paid your way through college but molested you. Come on, you know, Newman had his way with words. Would call me again. A bunch of. A bunch of racist, anti Asian flours. I'm not going to say all laced with affection. Of course the women replies, In 28 years of marriage, I never heard him speak like that. I'm sorry. I'm sure you know, that's not who he was. And Eric says, no, that's not all that he was, but it was him. Doesn't mean I didn't love him. He got the best out of me.

[Jen]

But I think it's so interesting because this immediately made me think of those stashes of cigarettes, right? Newman had his cigarettes stashed behind his bookshelf. Eric has his cigarettes stashed in the garden. Everyone's got these secrets that they're withholding from their partners. She's like, in 28 years, I never heard him say something like that. And Eric's like, what are you talking about? He said it all the time. It was just part of who he was A that all of these people have these layers that they hide to a certain extent in different scenarios. But also it begs the bigger question. Can you still, as Eric does, love and respect a mentor who basically you don't respect on a personal level, who can be bad to you in a number of different ways on an emotional level, but they forge you into the person you are, should you still respect that person? Is it forgivable? This is a question that I have asked so many times about the various people that I worked for whom I had complex relationships with. This is something that is very, very common and not really unpacked on Wall street and pop culture. It's so important to talk about because people are complex. It's not all he was, but it was him. And I just think that the showrunners did such a great job with that nuance here. Because by the way, that's Eric too, with Harper, and they are a little heavy handed here by making it like such an overt racist Thing and not subtler things, but it gets the point home.

[Kristen]

And we had known this from, like, that. I want to say it was the wrong way trade episode.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

He's like, he was horrible. But he said this one nice thing to me. He said this racist word as a. Is a born salesman. And you're like, oh, okay. And he's like, remembering him fondly. And I think we've talked about this, that, like, there are some people in your life that bring value in these other ways so that you can overlook their deficiencies. And to some people, that deficiency should be a deal breaker, but it's not forever. You know what I mean?

[Jen]

Life is so much more of a gray area. And Eric didn't feel comfortable as a junior person being like, you can't say that to me. The same way that Yaz didn't stand up for herself in the uncomfortable situation with the strip club. Like, this is Taylor's oldest time.

[Kristen]

So Eric then says, you remember coming here during grad class? And so they're basically setting up that this woman, who is obviously Newman's widow and Eric were the same year. And this was 28 years ago. So this is where I started to the math being like, okay, the Solomon information ties out, you know, and so all of that. So now this is making more sense. Eric then asked if there was any overlap, to which she says, what, between us sleeping together and me sleeping with our boss? And so again, tells us Newman is her boss. And back to your whole comment on the inappropriate mentor mentee relationship. But by the way, even when we started in, like, 2000, 6007, in that time frame, it was actually surprisingly common that you would have MDs marrying their analyst. Like, not when they were an analyst. But we also.

[Jen]

I mean, Newman may not have been an MD when they were working for him, but these workplaces are super messy. It's funny, one of the people who follows us on social media that we talk to a lot is a fellow Princeton alum, but a few years older than I am, and was, like, responding to one of our comments about drinking on Wall street and partying, whatever, and he was like, oh, my God, it was crazy. Like, you know, these sales women would come in clearly having slept with their clients or with the traders or whatever, and I was like, I dated my clients. Now, granted, it wasn't like a tit for tat kind of relationship, and typically it wasn't someone I was, like, actively covering. But, like, your circle of people that you're interacting with becomes so small because you're spending so many hours at the office and then you're out entertaining clients. So like all the people that you're having dinner with, talking to on the phone all day, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like you go to school, if you go to Princeton for college, you're not gonna be like, I'm gonna go find a boyfriend at ucla.

[Kristen]

So it's.

[Jen]

This is your world. And so within your analyst class, everyone dates each other. You have two close friends who are in my Morgan Stanley summer analyst class who are married. Right. Like I married one of my traders. I previously dated clients. This happens all the time. This isn't this like super scandalous thing that it might seem like here. But it also is because there's that power dynamic between Newman having been their direct manager and having said these racist things to Eric.

[Kristen]

Yeah, I was going to say it was funny because when I started dating my husband, we both worked at Morgan Stanley together. But I was introduced to him through my younger brother who my brother was an analyst and he was his vp. And my husband was so worried that people were going to think that he was giving my brother preferential treatment because he was like dating his sisters anyway. It's just so funny because. Yeah. To your point, when you're working all the time, the universe is so small now.

[Jen]

You have to disclose every relationship. Like, hey, we're playing tennis together this weekend. Like, there needs to be a form filled out and 10 people in HR need to know. Back in the day, it was much more loosey goosey and these dotted lines of like, when do you need to report something? When do you not?

[Kristen]

Right. Yep. So there's a sex scene with DVD and Harper. We're gonna skip that.

[Jen]

I said if DVD explained a swaption trading idea while his head was in between Harper's butt cheeks, I missed it. So we're not gonna talk about it.

[Kristen]

It was. I can't. So fast forwarding. We're now back with Eric and Newman's wife, who I don't think we actually ever get her name. I just always. I didn't know her name either.

[Jen]

I don't have. I have Newman's widow here everywhere.

[Kristen]

Yeah, I should be like, you know.

[Jen]

We know her, Newman.

[Kristen]

Which is probably true because that's probably his last name.

[Jen]

That's what I'm saying. Maybe she's last name.

[Kristen]

So she asked what he wants now and he's like, I want the chicken some sleep. She says, you know, I love that focus. A man passing through on a contract who's going to get got and he's John Wick.

[Jen]

Like he's an assassin.

[Kristen]

Yeah. And he replies, reasonable people doing reasonable things. Where does that get us? And she says, unreasonable people doing unreasonable things. That's how we begin to matter. And Eric says, my God, he really us up.

[Jen]

So I imagine these are both Newman quotes. I need ChatGPT to know if unreasonable people doing unreasonable things. Is this coming from someone other than Newman?

[Kristen]

It says it reflects the idea that bold moves to find success in a cutthroat industry like finance. Yes.

[Jen]

Totally agree. They are saying these lines like they're.

[Kristen]

Familiar to them, that it probably was Newman.

[Jen]

That's what I'm assuming. And my only question was, is there another source or is it. He used to say all these things to us. They're so deeply ingrained in our consciousness now that we can recite them. And like, God, he fucked us up.

[Kristen]

Yeah. So Eric then says, sometimes I think you're born a thousand men and you die just one. And the camera zooms out and they were holding hands and she then kind of pulls away. And Eric, he checks from sleep, he pulls away.

[Jen]

She like, moves her hand on top of his, he pulls away. I loved that line of, I think you're born a thousand men and you die just one. I think that that is. I feel that way. Right? And actually it's so funny. That's one of my deep core fears. Like, you think about what people write on your tombstone and having to be summed up. I remember when we were at Princeton and you would categorize people, it would be like, oh, she's a Kappa and IV rower, you know, and you would plot people like coordinates on a grid. And when you think about all of the sum total of your life, right. How are people going to talk about you? They're like, oh, she was an xyz and when you're born, you can be in anything. But then it's like you get distilled down to these defining characteristics. Your job, your family. And then you have some people who are just so much larger than life. And it's like they made this huge impact on the world. I think Eric wants to be that larger than life legend that Newman has become in all of their minds.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Jen]

As problematic as he was that he's now being quoted and his wisdom is being passed down into them and then therefore into generations of future salespeople and.

[Kristen]

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Jen]

But like, right, he's flirting with irrelevance because he's lost his biggest client. He's being Undermined politically, like all these things. And here's Newman's widow, Lady Newman, making him feel like he matters again, making him feel large again. I just think that's such a powerful thing. And that's like the classic midlife crisis that makes people have affairs is they're like, what's going to be on my tombstone? Just a dead end job, whatever.

[Kristen]

Right. And so I think, though, it goes back to what you were saying also about in the very beginning, how there was the two different ways that we see Eric. It's like you see him in the office, you see him with his family. Like they're two separate people. That you're like, I almost feel like I shouldn't be seeing this. Or even when he made the comment about, well, that's not all he was. He was a racist person. But to Eric, he also had these other characteristics that weren't just this one thing.

[Jen]

But I loved this scene. You guys probably think we're such prudes, like fast forwarding to the sex scenes or whatever. I loved that he didn't sleep with her here because that felt like it would have been the really obvious thing to have happen. And I was so relieved that he rejected her advance. So, yeah, just want you guys to keep that in mind as we go on because, well, and we also know.

[Kristen]

The fact that he rejected her advance means that he probably hadn't. Ben's just sleeping around. That he's been loyal to his wife throughout this whole thing, even though they had kind of like weird ways of talking to each other. And like, okay, so back at Harper's, Harper and DVD are like spooning and Harper, like reels out and she goes and she makes a call to Jesse and he's in a car, like, middle of the night. Yes.

[Jen]

So Jesse says that he's up, up watching Ozzy Rules Football and that's why he's up at that hour. Like, why are you calling me at this hour? I have a perfectly good excuse for why I'm at.

[Kristen]

No, I'm sorry.

[Jen]

We know that that's not what he's doing because he's sitting in a car. That's all the information we have at this point.

[Kristen]

Yes. So she says that she was thinking about how maybe her colleague outshined her. And she says, it's been bothering me. And Jesse's like, well, he's a smart kid. But I was confused why he was pitching me along in an identical market. It's repetitive and boring and institutionalized. Are you any of those things?

[Jen]

Yeah. Back to the Old question, are you a company man? Because DVD is being the company man.

[Kristen]

Yes. And she says she thinks that maybe he wants someone to buy Fasted because he already has someone who wants to get rid of it. So she's trying to instill doubt, saying, maybe it's a screaming short. And Jesse says, I don't know, Harper. He seemed pretty convinced by it. Do you not trust him? She says, he's a sales guy. It's his job to be convincing. It's unclear if they get approval to implement their entire business plan. The spac market is already languishing, which could be a leading indicator for things to come. Valuations are sky high, and no other sector has been this over bid. Fast Aid is just a blockbuster flogging meds instead of vhs. So Jesse says, I knew you thought that. I hardly think your camp will be impressed when I ask for a bid in the deal they're selling. Harper says, so don't go through me. Go through Goldman or any other bank on the street. I'm sure they'd love to help. And Jesse laughs. He's like, so you're pitching me against the house view and sending your flow to a competitor. She says, the best idea wins. He asks, what's the best idea? She says, mine, Jesse, the one that thrills you. He says, okay, I will call Goldman in the morning. So she's trying to make it very clear that she is putting him ahead. To be like, I'm giving you an idea that's against the house view and I also don't want you to go through me. So I'm not going to make any money off of it. Because she's like, I basically want to cultivate this relationship, but there's also a lot of other, like, finance stuff in there. So I don't know if you want.

[Jen]

To start just the mechanics of what's happening here, which you just spoke to. And to be clear for anyone who's trying to wrap their heads around what's going on here, what Harper is saying is there are two reasons why any salesperson pitches an idea. One is client. I want you to make as much money as possible. I want to help facilitate that. Here's a smart idea to make you money, end of story. We're going to charge bid offer on the trade. We're going to make our money that way. Everyone wins, we're happy. Then there's, I have another client on the other side of this who needs to do something. I need to find the offsetting risk. So for a seller, I need to find a buyer. So I'm going to come up with a convincing reason why someone might want to buy this. And listen, 5050 coin flips with half of these things most of the time. So somebody wants to sell, somebody wants to buy. But there's information asymmetry involved in that kind of salesmanship. And that's what Harper is effectively accusing DVD of or implying that he's doing. That he knows a reason why it might not be a buy because in fact he knows someone who wants to sell it for very specific reasons. Regulatory approval, not going through, valuations being too high, the spac market, whatever it is. Right. Blah, blah, blah. So therefore, Instead of taking DVDs idea, go completely the other way around, borrow shares of this stock that you do not already own and sell them short, playing for the price to go down. And as you said, don't do it with me. Where we could collect the bid offer on that. Do it with someone else so they will get all the benefit from this. So it is a lose, lose, lose for Pierpoint and only a win for Harper. This is the kind of conversation that you would have if you were auditioning for a job at Jesse's firm. I'm like, she doesn't want to be at peerpoint anymore. She just wants to go work on the buy side. Like I was like, she's done with this.

[Kristen]

But I actually think it's more she's trying to make sure she doesn't lose Jesse as a client to DBD because she knows that he is starstruck. Like he said, it's face value. And she's trying to position him is.

[Jen]

As this person though, Like I do.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Jen]

She wakes up after having been seduced by him and is like, wait, did the teacher just seduce the student? I thought I was the teacher and he was the student. Did I just get played?

[Kristen]

Yeah. I still think he's kind of as I mean he may be.

[Jen]

I just, I think given what happens at the end of this episode, I saw a side to him that is much more than face value and so wondered if like maybe he's smarter than he looks. Kind of.

[Kristen]

I think he's the stand in for someone who is a good moral character. Right. He's your counterpoint to Eric, your counterpoint to Harper. So I wouldn't trust him if I were her to not try to steal Jesse. But I think she knows that he's not sitting there trying to screw Jesse over just because he has some buyer. You know what I mean? I actually think he's trying to impress Jesse because his goal is to win Jesse over. I think, like, perfect sense. Yeah. And I think she knows that, and that's why she's like, I'm worried. Like, I couldn't sleep because I was so worried that my colleague has outshined me. Let me start to plant the seeds of doubt into why you can't trust him and why you need to trust me more.

[Jen]

I think she's perfectly reasonable as well.

[Kristen]

That was. That was just my read is like, she's trying to prove to him how loyal she is, that she is putting him above everything else. So I don't know that it's her trying to position herself to go work for him. I really think she's just trying to make sure she's not going to lose her client to a colleague.

[Jen]

No, I agree with all of those interpretations and don't disagree with any of them. I just think.

[Kristen]

But again, it could be also that.

[Jen]

What you said, such an extreme way to do it. I mean, she would literally rather punch peerpoint in the face than risk losing this client to dvd. This is not someone who wants to be a salesperson at this firm. Let's just say, like.

[Kristen]

Well, yeah, I mean, like, she. She wasn't paid well. So I think that it's definitely something that she could be thinking about. Like, they literally had the conversation earlier. Yeah. But to your point, in the finance realm of things. So the SPAC market, I do want to talk a little bit about that. So we actually have a episode on the big podcast. One of our absolute favorite ones was essentially like a review of the Apple TV show We Crash, which is all about we work. And it was this interesting case study of a failed IPO where you had Adam Newman, who was the founder CEO of WeWork, they had this failed IPO. He ultimately gets forced out, and then they do end up going public through a spac. So SPAC stands for Special Purpose Acquisition Company. And it's almost like a backdoor into going public. And I'm gonna explain exactly how that works in just a second. But the basic idea, this is something that we saw a ton of in 2020. All these companies were going public via this SPAC. And the way it would work is that you have a sponsor. Chamath Paul Hapitiya, one of the co hosts of the all in podcast, is like, was like a famous one who did a ton of them. But you had, like, tons of, like, random people, like Martha Stewart, crazy names of people who are just like, I'm gonna be the Person, the sponsor, like doing the spacious. The point though is you would have a sponsor that goes out and they raise a bunch of money the way that you would raise a bunch of money in an ipo. But you're raising a bunch of money for a company that does nothing. So that's why you're oftentimes these are called blank check companies. You're raising a pile of cash where the only goal of that is to go into find a company to merge with. And by merging, because again, this SPAC is public, it's publicly traded, again trading solely based on like the sponsor. But it's again, this blank check company, no financials, no nothing, is just a pile of money that has the goal of going out and merging with another business. So what happened again in 2020 is you had all these retail investors who were buying into this. And so the SPAC market was like a huge bubble and a ton of companies did go public via spac. Sofi, you had WeWork was another one. So there's a whole bunch of bunch of companies that went public via these SPACs and then ultimately they start like that market just completely tanked. So like with something like in the couple of years post, these companies going public Vs back, their valuations dropped like 90%. So much money was wiped out. But the point though is what Harper is saying is that the SPAC market, the fact that their share prices are all like collapsing, could be a leading indicator for things to come. Meaning the fact that valuations are sky high everywhere. No other sector has been overbid this much. And that Fast Aid is. Think about Blockbuster, which eventually did go bankrupt, right? Fast Aid is just Blockbuster. But instead of renting out traditional vhs, it's selling meds. So I think she's trying to be kind of quick on her feet and convince him why Fast Aid is a bad idea. Even though I am much more convinced by what DVD had to say versus what she has to say. To me, this is just her trying to come up with a justification for why he should not trust DVD and why he should do the opposite thing. Because by the way, we know what happened between 2020, although 2022 I think was a bad year. 2023, 2024 were obviously amazing, but this is all about her. She doesn't even have Jesse's best interest at heart. She's just basically trying to be like, I want to prove to Jesse that he is my number one.

[Jen]

Pick me.

[Kristen]

Yeah, yeah, just pick me.

[Jen]

And by the way, fun scene at the end of this, we realize he's in a car and he leans across and opens the door for a prostitute to climb into his car, who then sits there and waits and listens to the end of this conversation. So we learned that he's out up to no good. And again, for me, it was just like hitting you over the head. But like, okay, I love some of the subtlety around the relationships here. I was really happy that Eric didn't immediately like, flash forward to rolling around in bed with Newman's widow. Like, Jesse has to be going out and soliciting prostitutes. Like, Jesus, this is a bit much.

[Kristen]

Yeah. So the next scene is Yaz at her place and she wants to have this conversation with her dad. So her father comes downstairs, she's set out this whole nice breakfast spread, and her dad is like, oh, what's this for? You're making me feel tremendously loved. And Yaz says that she's been trying to get Maxim to give her the access to their account so Pairpoint can start to do the due diligence. But he's being a brick wall. And her dad. So Charles replies, he's hot tempered. Affairs of the heart. And she says, he says, you told him not to speak to me.

[Jen]

Well, yeah. Her dad was basically blaming her for Maxim not being honest with her. He's like, yeah, you guys were sleeping together and you broke up. That's kind of on you, right? That he's holding this information. Cool, awesome victim. I mean, great dad. You are like, oh, he's the best.

[Kristen]

Yeah, he's the worst. So she says, if we want to have a relationship, professional, personal, whatever, you need to be honest with me. I can handle bad news. Just tell me. And her dad looks very uncomfortable. And this is where he says the line, which is the title of the episode. There are some women, some women who had designs on me and Yaz is like, designs on you. And so Charles says, women I saw, heartbroken women who felt hurt by me and subsequently tried to ruin me, ruin us, ruin our family. And yes, it's like, okay, well, what the. Like, how many women could there be that it's going to like, ruin this massive amount of wealth that we've accumulated? And he says, I don't have to tell you, I've had affairs. Bitterly regret that. And whatever damage it did to this. I was young, all ego. Or it actually, again, Yaz is like, sorry, what does this have to do with our family money? He says, finicky agreements, legal red tape, annual outgoings, you know, agreements. She's like, non disclosure agreements. He Says I have nothing to hide. That's just how these things are wrangled legally. Yeah.

[Jen]

Okay. But I had to pay off all these women. The lawyers just drafted it all up. Like, it's totally standard to have NDAs in these giant payoff agreements with random women. Like, what? No, that is not totally standard. This is not something that happens all the time. You were up to no good. You probably are guilty.

[Kristen]

Impregnated.

[Jen]

Yeah, maybe you impregnated women. Maybe you sexually harassed women. Maybe they accused you of rape. Like, it could have been anything. And then you are paying these women off. I mean, it made me think of succession. Right? I was like, again, we had Yasmin, who grew up using the term not real persons, and there were all these accusations of sexual wrongdoing and murders and cover offs and payoffs and rapes and all those things happening in the cruises division of Waystar Royco. It's like her dad is a mini cruises division and is leading money through all of these payoff agreements to these secretive women.

[Kristen]

Yep. So she basically is like, you knew I would find out about this, like, as soon as you brought our money to Pierpoint. And he. He's like, yeah, no, I think it was my way of letting you know I'm a coward and this is my way of letting you in on this. Like, my subconscious way of telling you what. Yeah. Yep. And so she says, okay. Again, she's like, I know you're a horrible person. The only reason we have a relationship at all is I'm basically doing this to put up pretenses because I want your money. So she's like, I want to manage your money. Right. I want to manage your money. Right. Sorry. She doesn't even want his money. She literally just wants it to, like, get ahead at work. Which is. Which is like the funniest thing.

[Jen]

That's like the craziest part of the whole thing.

[Kristen]

Exactly. But she says, okay, but as far as our money is concerned, do we still have any? And he asked what she means. She's like, do we have money? Are you wealthy?

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

And he's like, well, of course. Generational. Many lifetimes over. And she smiles, but is also kind of like, what the actual.

[Jen]

Well, it's funny because she seems relieved. And by the way, throughout this whole line, they have Mozart's Requiem building, which is like, typically the song that they play in the movie when the villain's, like, true scheme is revealed. You have that big moment of horror when you finally realize that the best friend was the murderer. All along or whatever it is. And it's so funny because he has revealed that he is so many echelons of terrible, worse than we ever thought. And she's totally unfazed by that. And it's just like, well, she doesn't care.

[Kristen]

But that's the thing. She knows that he sucks. She knows he's a horrible person.

[Jen]

I don't think she knew that he sucked on, like, such a legal degree. I think she just thought that he was a cad. Now she's realizing that, like, he's a cat on, like, a criminal level. But again, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, this family is so shitty that she's like, okay, but are you still institutionally wealthy enough to be a beer boy's client?

[Kristen]

Right. So, next scene on the trading floor. Nicole is calling Robert and he's ignoring it. DVD tells him to pick up the phone, and Robert's just like, she'll call back. And Harper turns around, obviously clued in that she now knows there might be something more with Nicole and Robert because he's acting hurt. It's almost like he's pouting because he knows that she had made a move on Harper and it is personally affecting him.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

Not really sure.

[Jen]

There is this moment at the end of that scene where this might have been a closed captioning fail. It flashes to Robert's face. DVD has turned around and sat back at his desk, and he's, like, talking on the phone and it says in closed captioning dvd and it's somebody clearly asking him about a reservation at a fancy restaurant. And he says, no, no, presumably, are you taking a client? Was the answer. And he says, someone special. And I thought that was interesting. It said it was DVD saying that he's got some dinner reservation that evening. We ultimately know that he's not going to be at dinner that evening and that he would say someone special after just sleeping with Harper. So I clocked that. I didn't know if it was a poorly labeled closed caption. It was just another salesperson.

[Kristen]

Oh. I had assumed that someone special was Harper.

[Jen]

Well, he's not out to dinner with Harper that evening.

[Kristen]

He's not.

[Jen]

Phone call that evening.

[Kristen]

Yeah, but when they did that, I had assumed it was Harper.

[Jen]

So maybe you thought he made a dinner reserve. Like, I thought it was possible that he was like, oh, and now we're gonna go out to dinner again because we're dating.

[Kristen]

Yeah, no, that's what I thought.

[Jen]

Oh, okay.

[Kristen]

I think he genuinely likes her. Well, I don't know.

[Jen]

I haven't seen the next episode, so I don't know if they like, ultimately do go out to dinner, but, like, having watched it now, I know that what happens after this on the London timeline, which is the New York morning timeline, he's. Yeah, not at dinner. Or maybe he is. I'm just on the phone, I don't know.

[Kristen]

But anyways, so, yeah. So the next thing, we're back at Gus. He's at Aurora's office and that quote unquote nutcase is back. And the guy walks in seeming like he has some kind of mental illness. He says he knows they're listening in on him and Gus is just like, take a seat, this is going to surprise you. I listened to your request and I found a doctor and I sent the sample. The crazy person says, it's not mine and Gus says, it's not a dog's either. Eddie goes on to say, I understand why someone in your situation might make a cry for help, especially if no one's listening. I did some noodling around. Understand you've been between jobs for a while. And he says, do you want to talk about it? And the guy starts tearing up. So it was just a moment of trying to show Gus seeming to care about these constituents who Aurora, like, doesn't actually give a crap about. So I think it was like trying to maybe paint a picture of Gus as a little bit more of man at the people. But. So next scene in Celeste's office. Yes. Goes in and says that she did the work on the Hani financial situation and she found some. And as she's starting to try to just, like, come clean, she. She can't do it. And she then is starting to be like, you know what? The more I think about it, I'm fixating on the unnecessary details. And Celeste says, do you think we'll have fun together? I mean, working together? And yes. Says, yes. And Celeste replies, I was counting on it. Again, continuing the wildly inappropriate relationship.

[Jen]

Like, it seems full of innuendo. And yes, thought Celeste was a sex worker when she first met her. Everything Celeste says is like dripping in sex. So I feel almost guilty assuming the worst about her intentions. But that's what it seems like unequivocally in each scene.

[Kristen]

Yeah. So anyway, now we're back in New York City. Eric's in bed, he's pulling his shoes, he's getting ready.

[Jen]

He's like super restless, right? He's like talking and turning. He gets up, he shines his shoes. Naked, sitting in a Hotel chair, which is, of course, but he seems unhinged. And they're playing the same song they were playing when he went to the office the first time. It's like, this is what you want, this is what you get. It's just like. Like it's this, like, Pumped up song. When he first went in, they called him the Terminator.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Going in, he's all buttoned up, he's got his tie on. And when he's in the elevator going up, he rips off his tie and opens up his collar, kind of messes up his hair. Yeah, Kind of like he's evoking this old school sales guy. When you hear the stories about what the guys on the Solomon trading floor looked like, they looked rough and tumble. They didn't necessarily look the clean, polished part. And I feel like that's what he's actually trying to evoke physically. Here is this old school sales guy who's like, don't mess with me.

[Kristen]

But we see him waiting outside and he finally takes that cigarette and he lights it. So that's why I actually think 100% what you had said about the war thing is spot on.

[Jen]

He's like, leaving that for the luck. Because now he needs the luck going into this meeting with Adler.

[Kristen]

Mm. So as he's in the meeting, he's pitching Adler. He says revenues across the floor are only up 10%. CPS London is up over 30. Every member of my team is up year over year. So why are you paying us less? All roads lead back to Daniel. He moves as if he has the confidence of your blessing. I believe you've conspired to pay us down, to make us look expendable and then conflate us with New York. Eric sits down and he says he wants Daniel gone. He's an Ed. He's expensive. I'm nimbler without him. And he says, or are you forcing me and my team to look for bids away? Because there are plenty of shops that would take us in a heartbeat and pay us what we're worth.

[Jen]

Let me just be clear. For anyone who's listening to that. For you to say to the head of a division, or do we need to look for bids away? That is the ultimatum of, like, if you don't propose to me on our vacation, we're breaking up. That is an ultimatum you can't come back from. He is laying it all on the line here. You do not threaten a manager of yours that you're going to go seek a bit away unless you have one. Which we, by all accounts, we've seen enough of Eric's doings. I don't think he has one, to the best of my knowledge. So that is a huge bluff to bring into play here. He's like playing a big fucking poker hand here and he's got like a two of spades and a three of diamonds. I'm not a poker person, but you know what I mean.

[Kristen]

Yeah. So Adler says, shall we look at the data? Numbers don't lie. And so then he tells Eric that the average comp is actually up, up 30% on your team. But the overall desk pool was down. Because you're down. Your production has dropped from 75 million to 40. Your quartile ranking has dropped two places. He said I had to rub my eyes. What the hell happened to you? He said, the truth is, paying you down 40% leaves room for further reduction now that Phelim is gone. Your comp to production ratio was still the highest. Eric's like, you're paying me down. Adler says, you're a weight on your team. And Eric is like, for the last fucking four quarters. Out of what, 100? Adler says, yes, but they're the only four quarters that matter. So Eric is like, well, I assembled that team. Their achievements are mine. And Adler's like, look, I bet they're grateful. But you and I are bigger than the team Talk and the 360Review. Lukewarm water. If you stop producing, you're simply a cost. Eric is like, have the grace to look at me in the eye when you do it then. Right? Which is again, that goes back to your war commentary. I looked you in the eye when I fucking hired you. And Adler says, you know, nobody owes anyone a tomorrow here. Eric says, please don't let me go now. He went from like the puffed up fight to basically pleading for his life. Essentially, yes.

[Jen]

I mean, talk about the ultimate mentor. Mentee fucking. We are now realizing that Eric was Adler's mentor and his mentee is now fucking him in the only way that matters. This is. Yeah, this is awful. But I will say this is so accurate for Eric to be like, oh, the last hundred quarters that I've produced so well for this firm, it's a. What have you done for me lately? Every year with your compensation, it really is only about the last year. And when he says paying you down makes more room, I didn't actually understand exactly the way he phrased that. For room for further reductions. But basically each year your pay comp can only vary so much relative to the year before. So if you get paid a million dollars one year, it's very hard to get paid $2 million the next year. They can only really pay you up or down a relatively small percentage.

[Kristen]

So it's unlike on the buy side.

[Jen]

On the buy side, it doesn't matter. But at a bank, it's very hard to justify paying someone at the managing director level up more than a certain amount. But you can pay them down as much as you want. You can give them zero for a bonus. So if you knock someone down massively, it's a long road for them to get back up to where they were because it's. That percentage increases. It's like you used to talk about with hedge fund returns, right? If you're down 50% and then up a hundred percent, you're back to where you started. And in this case, if they knock him down 40%, they can probably only pay him up, like, what, Max, 10% the next year, even if he has a banner year. So this is a death now.

[Kristen]

Yeah. So Adler then says, I'd never just let you go. We've been talking, we've got some news. And then DVD comes on the speaker and moving. You mean girls.

[Jen]

He didn't know he was on a conference call. Dvd? I don't think so. Right?

[Kristen]

Like, no. Oh, God, no. He didn't know DVD was on there.

[Jen]

Yeah. Looks shocked.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Jen]

So you experience the shock at the same time as he does when DVDs voice comes through the phone. And I was so excited I spoke over you. So what does he say?

[Kristen]

Oh, so DVD comes on the speaker and he says, we're moving you up. And so then they explain what this means. He said, so Danny here mentioned you had a chat yesterday. He got straight on the phone to figure out the next best steps for someone as loyal as you. So we know that as soon as Eric said, I'm speaking to an empty chair, DVD called Adler. So DVD then says, we want you to run the client relationship effort across Europe. Eric is like, you both know what CRMs is. DVD says, shorter hours, less stress, increase interaction, socialize away from the melee of the floor. Eric says, it's a retirement home. And Adler says, more time for your family. You deserve this. For what it's worth, I think you look better in a tie. And we had just seen Eric come in, rip the tie, you know what I mean?

[Jen]

Like, because he wanted to be, like, the big guy on the track trading floor. So we have gone from Eric's wife saying, why don't you step away from the office and spend more time at home. To now Eric just getting totally assassinated as far as what he wants and desires from the two people whom he had mentored and hired and brought up in the business. This feels like they just killed off Ned Stark. Yes. And we talked about this in a prior episode. You had said, like, oh, SRM is going to come back or whatever. And I didn't know this, but it's funny because senior relationship management for a lot of salespeople. Again, I think I've referred to it as the nice iceberg you float off on when you are ready to be done with being a line salesperson who's deeply tied to the P and L, who's living and dying with every single trade. This is a path for many people. And working in srm, by the way, can be a whole career in and of itself. But it is very different than being the kind of salesperson that Eric is and wants to be. It is an office job. You are only being called in to talk about, oh, we're doing this thing at the IBD level. And sales and trading isn't playing nice. You need to go put out a fire or whatever, but you're not going to have a number next to your name. And that's what Eric wants so desperately. And so he's been insulted by his wife. Who would suggest that he would ever accept that? And now he's been flat out shot by a firing squad.

[Kristen]

Do you literally see Eric trying to hold back tears? I mean, he is gutted by this. So he walks out of the office and it's hard to tell. I assume he's actually like, arriving back in London. I first was like, how is he walking out of, like, New York? And it's dark. He like went in the morning, but I think it's actually him landing back in London. He looks defeated. He goes into his house, he goes to see his daughters and it's actually like really kind of touching. He, like, hands his daughter a stuffies. His daughter gives him a kiss and says thank you and he lies down next to them in the bed. And then the next scene, you see him getting a knock on his door. So it's a flashback.

[Jen]

He closes his eyes when he's in the bed.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Jen]

So at that point you're wondering, is this a dream sequence or is this a flash?

[Kristen]

Oh, I had just flat out assumed it was a flashback versus a dream sequence.

[Jen]

Very well could have been.

[Kristen]

That's true. I guess they do leave it ambiguous.

[Jen]

They leave it ambiguous. And that's what's so heartbreaking and so brilliant about it.

[Kristen]

That's a good point. And you see Newman's wife showing up at his hotel room. He kisses her where he has, by.

[Jen]

The way, the top buttons unbuttoned on his shirt so it would tie out. That it wouldn't be right after they left the restaurant. It would be after he left office, went back to his hotel and called.

[Kristen]

Newman's wife because he was so upset about what happened. That makes him feel like himself again.

[Jen]

Which is what he said to her while they were there.

[Kristen]

Yeah, so it seems. I had assumed, but I know I had assumed he has cheated. Cheated on his wife because he's then back with his daughter. So I thought it was like him closing his eyes, like reliving this interaction and then opening it back up.

[Jen]

I think that's 100% true, but it's.

[Kristen]

Just hope that it possibly holds out hope.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Kristen]

So then the final scene, there is this crazy music. It's like. I don't know how to describe it.

[Jen]

Playing while they're showing her walking into the hotel room to kick off this affair. And I don't know what the song is, but. But it's almost like the lyrics of the song are the myriad choices of his fate set themselves out upon a plate for him to choose what had he to lose. Which, of course makes you think back to what Eric said about you're born a thousand men, but you die one man. That his fate has been sealed. That is why he's making this terrible choice to cheat on his wife. It's very tragic.

[Kristen]

Yeah. And so he's now back in the office. He has his box of stuff, leaving the trading floor, going up to his new office. Stark contrast again with the trading floor. Quiet. Nothing in there. There's a gift, right? He opens up this tie and he looks out over London again in his office. And then you see it.

[Jen]

You know, it's funny because when the average person thinks of the corner office office, the corner office is this dream. It's like, oh, if you're in a corner office, you're a person of power or whatever. This is the world's saddest corner office. Because A, it's in London, and so it's bleak and cloudy outside, but B, it's covered by scaffolding, so you can't even see out. And with the lines of the scaffolding crisscrossing across the windows, it looks like a cage.

[Kristen]

It looks like a prison.

[Jen]

So he has gone from the freedom of the trading cell to being caged in the prison of srm.

[Kristen]

I literally was worried you're like, all.

[Jen]

Right, gonna strangle himself with this tie.

[Kristen]

Yeah, I was worried something bad is gonna happen. As I'm watching this. Just like, really scared. I'm like, don't do anything. I still like him as the best character. Even though he's. I do too, you know, has his flaws. Like, I still think he's the best character. Like, please don't do anything to him. So, yeah, so that was how we leave that episode. So we need to do bullish and bearish.

[Jen]

So I am very bearish on Yasmine. Yasmin. Nothing's coming up.

[Kristen]

Yasmina.

[Jen]

I guess I'm bullish on DVD after his power play. Like, he may not be getting Jesse Bloom as a client, but he may be the new head of cps. So.

[Kristen]

Yeah.

[Jen]

How about you?

[Kristen]

I guess I'm gonna say I'm bearish on Eric because I'm worried about him. I'm literally worried for his life. Are they gonna do a frickin Ned Stark on us? Eliminate him from the show? That was what I was when they.

[Jen]

Fired him in season one. Like, this felt more final.

[Kristen]

Yeah. So I there. I'm bearish on Eric and then bullish. Gosh. I mean, the only person I can say is like, Harper. I mean Harper and dvd, but more Harper.

[Jen]

Gus.

[Kristen]

Yeah, Gus.

[Jen]

Work he's doing seems to be coming around morally. I don't know, but the affair with the high schooler. Everyone sucks. Everyone's always complicated and evil on the show and I love it.

[Kristen]

Anyway, so thank you guys so much. If you want the sort of corollary to some of the trading and equity long short, we have a really awesome interview with a portfolio manager who manages an equity long short book. She also happens to be a mom of four, which is like wild. So that'll be coming out on the main podcast. And thank you so much. If you are enjoying this, please leave us a written five star review. It really helps us grow and thank you guys so much and we'll see you next week.

[Jen]

Bye.