The WAN Show: The Honey Lawsuit Was Dismissed

Date: November 28, 2025
Hosts: Linus Sebastian & Luke Lafreniere (with Dan, producer)

Episode Overview

In this bustling Black Friday episode, Linus and Luke dive deep into the major tech stories of the week, centering on the recent dismissal of the class-action lawsuit against Honey (a coupon browser extension owned by PayPal). They explore the legal, ethical, and business ramifications for content creators and platforms. The show branches from the nuances of digital affiliate marketing and legal standards to topics like device longevity, international influence on online politics, AI vulnerabilities, sponsor relationships, and the ever-evolving landscape of tech products and privacy.

The episode is energetic, filled with quotable exchanges, lively debate, in-jokes, product plugs—especially about LTT store deals—and real talk about business, tech ethics, and the interplay between creators and the companies they promote.

Key Topics & Timestamps

1. [Headline: Honey Lawsuit Dismissed](05:45 – 16:15)

Background

• Honey—a browser extension facilitating coupon auto-application—was accused by several content creators of "cookie stuffing": replacing creators' affiliate links at checkout and taking commission intended for those creators.
• Lawsuit, filed against PayPal, was dismissed by a US federal judge for lack of demonstrable harm ("hypothetical chain of possibilities").

Key Points

• “The honey lawsuit has been dismissed. So that doesn't necessarily mean that this is a final outcome, but it is something that we do need to talk about…” (00:41)
• Judge allowed plaintiffs 45 days to amend their arguments and resubmit.
• Linus reflects on internal discussions, previous experiences with affiliate programs, and the challenge of quantifying digital harm.
• Debate over whether digital losses (e.g., affiliate commissions, piracy losses) are inherently harder to prove in court than analog ones.

Memorable Quotes

• Linus:
  “[The judge said] the plaintiffs failed to demonstrate that they actually lost any money, relying on... a hypothetical chain of possibilities.” (06:54)
• Luke:
  “I think that argument could be extrapolated to like almost any case. Like, how has any case about any form of piracy ever gone through? Because that's a hypothetical amount of dollars.” (08:42)
• Linus:
  “There's so many variables involved in these affiliate programs... pinning it down to some kind of even a range of exact numbers I think is going to be really tough.” (12:11)

2. [How Honey Changed LMG's Sponsor Practices](13:39 – 19:35)

• Honey debacle led to greater scrutiny of sponsor agreements, especially regarding affiliate links.
• LMG applied more transparency and policing of sponsor behavior, e.g. dropping brands that harmed viewers.
• Honey was the first time they dropped a sponsor that actively hurt LMG (not consumers).

Linus:
“We even debated it internally. Should we even drop this if this is a net benefit to our viewers but is damaging to our business?”

• LMG tends to avoid sponsoring direct product competitors to avoid conflicts of interest.

3. [Brand Relationships, Conflict of Interest, and Sponsors](19:37 – 26:50)

• LMG discloses and navigates investments carefully; e.g., Framework laptops, being scrupulous about fairness.
• Positive partnerships: dbrand (transparent), Seasonic (collaborative), Noctua (trusted).
• The challenge for creators in maintaining both transparency and business integrity.

4. [Americans Holding Onto Devices, “Hurting the Economy”](31:06 – 47:43)

Highlights

• Americans now keep phones for 2 years, 5 months on average, up from 22 months (2016).
• CNBC: Delayed upgrades “cost the economy.” Linus and Luke poke fun at that argument, highlighting the lack of compelling reasons to upgrade and the maturity of current devices.
• Apple’s M1 laptops and older smartphones remain highly usable, further supporting a “buy less, buy better” ethos.

Luke:
“Those [M1] laptops are actually wicked.” (46:49)
Linus:
"[W]e've reached the point where stuff is generally good enough to use it for a much longer period of time." (47:32)

5. [AI Jailbreak via Adversarial Poetry](75:06 – 80:00)

Findings

• New research: Large Language Models (LLMs) can be “jailbroken” using metaphor-rich adversarial poetry, bypassing safety systems.
• Success rates: Up to 62% for handcrafted prompts; even high-profile models (e.g., Gemini, GPT variants) are vulnerable.

Memorable

Linus: "It's been interesting watching the acknowledgment starting to come out that current LLM technology is not a path to AGI." (79:25)

6. [International Influence on US Political Discourse on Twitter/X](87:03 – 93:39)

• Twitter’s (now X) brief, controversial rollout of account location tags revealed prominent “America First” accounts based outside the US (Russia, India, Nigeria, etc.).
• Linus lauds Twitter for this transparency, noting it gives important context to readers about agenda and authenticity.

Linus:
“It is a hotbed of charged discourse around American politics... But it's absolutely a tool for manipulating Canadian politics. I know that from my own personal experience and probably politics elsewhere that I just don't follow as closely.” (89:27)

7. [GrapheneOS Leaves France After Government Pressure](66:50 – 74:10)

• France targets GrapheneOS over alleged use by criminals; GrapheneOS moves servers out of France, criticizes misrepresentation.
• Both hosts defend privacy and open source: “So are cars. So are probably... hoodies from lttstore.com!” (68:10)
• Discussion: Underlying tech and privacy shouldn’t be demonized simply because criminals might use it.

8. [Sponsor & Product Relationship Transparency](19:37 – 26:21)

• LMG shares how it manages relationships to avoid perceived bias, even going so far as to “coach’s son” the Framework coverage to hold itself to higher standards.

9. [Meta’s Alleged 17-Strike Sex Trafficking Policy (Unredacted Court Filing)](116:01 – 124:15)

• Court filing alleges Meta (Facebook) allowed up to 17 sex trafficking related violations before suspending an account. Both hosts are stunned.
• “If it's a false positives thing... two. Not 17.” – Luke (118:47)
• Linus: “At the point of 17 strikes, why even have a number?” (117:29)

10. [Other Lightning Topics & Segments]

• [RAM and hardware price volatility in the face of AI](131:10 – 131:40)
• [Stellantis spamming car infotainment with ads](127:26 – 129:04)
• [Linux gains as Windows 10 EOL approaches](112:26 – 116:01)
• [Creation and design learnings from LTT products](135:33 – 138:55)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Linus:
  “As for the intent to conceal, I mean, yes, but my pants demonstrate an intent to conceal my balls. And it's up to me to decide if I want to conceal my balls.” (71:13)

• Luke:
  “It is such an interesting conversation because like, the cat is far from the bag at this point. It's not out of it, it's gone.” (77:15, on AI jailbreaks)

• Linus:
  “We are just supportive of competition in the GPU market right now. We need it so bad.” (86:34)

• Luke:
  “If you're going to submit something... You have to own that output. Or I think... that can show up on performance reviews, that can get you fired. I think that's all legitimate.” (179:13, on AI-written content)

Product Promos & Community Interaction

• LTT Store: Major Black Friday deals, free shipping, bundles (e.g. mystery screwdriver with backpack, stream deck with cable management, headphones, apparel discounts).
• Floatplane: Exclusive merch, forthcoming price changes, community involvement.
• Sponsor Shout-outs: dbrand, Seasonic, Vessi, Wooger, Xreal, and others.
• Merch Messages: Record-breaking day—over 1,000 live messages read or referenced, including heartfelt community exchanges and fun tangents (pickling, cats, soup definitions).

The WAN Show Tone

Lively, self-deprecating, consumer-focused, and pragmatic. Heavy on in-jokes, running gags, irreverent back-and-forth ("I'm not beating around some bush!"), with swift pivots from product plugs to earnest transparency about ethical stances and business dilemmas. Linus and Luke both take their responsibility as creators/sponsors seriously while never losing sight of the absurdities of tech culture and internet drama.

Closing & Aftershow

The episode wraps up with a flurry of merch messages, humorous "AI after dark" product discussions, and a viewer-pushed “experiment” with a video launch for algorithmic reasons. The hosts keep up energy and engagement right through the “end” and aftershow, poking fun at themselves and the audience.

Summary Table of Key Segments

| Segment | Topic | Highlights / Quotes | |-------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | [05:45–16:15] The Honey Lawsuit | Dismissal, proof of digital harm, sponsor/sponsorship ethics | “Plaintiffs failed to demonstrate… hypothetical…”; “Can you even quantify?” | | [19:37–26:21] Brand/Sponsor Ethics | Framework, dbrand, transparency | “Coach’s son” approach; “You gotta trust me to manage that.” | | [31:06–47:43] Device Longevity | Phones, economy, Apple laptops | “M1 laptops… still wicked!”; “Buy less, buy better.” | | [66:50–74:10] France/GrapheneOS | Privacy, law, open source vs. crime | “So are cars. So are probably… hoodies from lttstore.com!” | | [75:06–80:00] AI/Poetry Jailbreaks | LLM guardrail bypass | “Every attack was a single turn…”; “More creative, more vulnerable.” | | [87:03–93:39] Twitter & Politics | Foreign influence, transparency | “I laud Twitter for this…” | | [116:01–124:15] Meta 17-Strike | Court unredacted, engagement vs. safety | “Why even have a number? …Not 17. Allegedly.” | | [127:26–129:04] Car Infotainment | Stellantis spam | “Are we going to have ads blaring inside the car?” | | [131:10–131:40] RAM/Ai bubble | Hardware, shortages, price volatility | — | | [135:33–138:55] Product Engineering | Cables, magnets, design learnings | “It's not as simple as ‘just put a big magnet’…” |

If you missed the show, this summary gives you all the major discussions, context, and best moments—minus the ads, intros, and outros.