You Need To Move To Linux Today - WAN Show July 17, 2026

Summary

The WAN Show – "You Need to Move to Linux Today"

Episode Date: July 18, 2026
Hosts: Linus Sebastian, Luke Lafreniere, (with Dan the Producer)
Theme: Urgency for Switching to Linux in the Face of New Microsoft Device Tracking

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Episode Overview

This episode of The WAN Show dives headlong into privacy concerns sparked by Microsoft’s admission of secret, persistent device identifiers—pushing the hosts to vigorously argue that it may finally be time for "normal people" to move to Linux. The conversation pivots around user privacy, the realities and new developments in the Linux desktop, hardware news, emulation, digital rights, and major shifts in product availability from tech companies. Linus and Luke's authentic mix of technical insight, personal anecdotes, and audience banter delivers both urgent warnings and optimistic takes on the rapidly changing landscape.

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Key Topics and Segments

1. Microsoft's Secret Tracking ID and the Call to Linux

[02:26 – 11:22]

• What happened:
  The main story is the recent U.S. federal legal complaint revealing Microsoft’s “Global Device Identifier” (GDID)—a unique, persistent ID tracking every Windows 11 install. The FBI can use this to link a device’s activity regardless of IP address changes, VPNs, or proxies.

• Serious privacy and trust implications:

  • Users did not consent or have clear disclosure about this tracking.
  • Because the identifier is regenerated upon Windows reinstallation, it can still be re-associated by logging in with any previous Microsoft account.
  • "This is different because it was not disclosed at any time and there was no implicit tracking … I assume that if I'm not enabling something like Windows Recall, what I'm doing on my device is actually not visible to my operating system." – Linus [05:07]

• GDPR and legality

  • Linus points out possible GDPR problems and the seriousness of undisclosed tracking.

• How to protect privacy:

  • Mention of a full reverse engineering analysis on GitHub.
  • Software suggestions for maintaining privacy.

• The hosts' reaction:
  Both Linus and Luke agree this crosses a line and shift the Linux-vs-Windows default debate:

  • “I am astronomically more comfortable on Linux right now, which is really weird to me.” – Linus [08:25]

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2. The State of Desktop Linux and Migration Tools

[07:23 – 13:45]

• Linux as the “new default”:

  • Previously, Linux was an "appliance" or for specialists; now, Windows is increasingly the side install just for certain workflows (e.g., video editing).
  • Many professional apps and some games still lack parity, but progress is rapid.

• Highlight: Community-developed migration tools

  • Projects (like one from a subreddit user, “Gil Ghiodwif”) now automate more of the Windows→Linux migration, including files, browser profiles, system configs, Wi-Fi, and eliminating the need for USB boot drives [09:07–10:26].

• Linux usability advances:

  • Linus and Luke praise how much has improved—a sharp contrast even to LTT’s own earlier Linux Challenge.
  • "Night and day." – Linus [10:53]; "Linux is moving really fast right now." – Linus [10:26]

• Customizability vs. defaults debates (scroll wheel auto-scroll vs. paste):

  • A microcosm of Linux freedom and friction: some power users prefer non-standard defaults (middle-click paste vs. auto-scroll). Both agree customization should allow both.
  • "Why not both?" – Linus [13:37]

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3. Proton 11 and Gaming on Linux

[21:00 – 25:49, 128:08 – 129:52]

• Valve’s Proton 11 launch:

  • Further expands compatibility for games, including x86 on ARM via FEX.
  • Hints that Steam Frame (the spiritual successor to the Steam Machine) hardware is nearing release, as more groundwork and updates stack up weekly.
  • Hype and rumors: the community is rabid with speculation—Valve’s hardware expected to be a huge hit [22:19–23:57].

• RPCS3 Emulation Progress:

  • Now 75% of all PS3 games are playable on PC.
  • As Sony sunsets PS3 and Vita stores, emulation is the only way many titles survive.
  • Raises the question: should preservation of digital classics fall entirely on unpaid communities? [128:14 – 131:03]
  • Legal and ethical gray areas persist, especially as hardware dies and replacements/firmware are a legal minefield.

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4. Personal Linux Adventures and SteamOS Use

[25:49 – 36:09]

• Luke’s Steam Machine “daily driver”:
  • Built into an original Valve-seeded case with modern hardware—runs SteamOS, all games, and is remote-located in his house for noiselessness.
  • “It’s a pristine, immaculate steamos experience and I am freaking loving it” – Luke [28:23]
  • Home theater integration, CEC hell, user friendliness issues for non-geeks (and their families).
• Linus eyeing similar builds:
  • Planning his own up-market, home-theater-appropriate build using a Fractal Terra case.

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5. Product & Hardware News

[40:35 – 47:48, 170:07 – 173:24]

• Intel’s Windows 11 driver update for Microsoft’s new Driver Quality Initiative (DQI):
  • Real improvements making Windows 11 more stable.
  • “This is good.” – Luke [41:22]
• Nvidia RTX 50-series and hidden hotspot sensor drama:
  • Nvidia claimed the temperature sensor was irrelevant, but it actually affected card throttling.
  • “Which one is it, Nvidia? Is it inaccurate and irrelevant, or is it actionable? Because it cannot be both.” – Luke [47:24]
• OnePlus and OPPO leave NA/EU phone market:
  • Possibly linked to chip supply and memory costs surging due to China/US sanctions (“Memory is still a commodity, even if today it's an expensive commodity.” – Luke [171:57])
• FIFA World Cup on Netflix, and more sponsorship as a “Premium” anti-feature.

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6. Debate: YouTube Premium Ads Lawsuit

[68:30 – 80:24]

• Class action claims Premium’s "no interruptions" promise is false:
  • Plaintiffs argue that baked-in creator sponsorships still count as interruptions.
  • Linus and Luke’s take: YouTube delivers the unbroken video. Creator’s in-video ads/placements are not technically YouTube’s “interruptions” (unlike pre/mid-roll ads).
  • Both sides have precedent: “If YouTube says in their marketing ‘no interruptions’, I could see that both ways.” – Luke [72:37–73:01]
  • Comparisons to "unlimited data" plans, Red Bull’s "gives you wings" lawsuit, and floatplane’s own approach.

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7. What’s "Midrange" Now? The Shrinking of Practical Tech

[84:13 – 118:37]

• The ever-shifting definition of “midrange hardware”:
  • GPU pricing has inflated: what was midrange is now high-end; true “entry-level” (affordable, new, 100-$200) cards have all but disappeared.
  • Used market is the only real “affordable” option now.
  • “Nvidia just stopped making entry-level GPUs … their product line starts at the cost of a secondhand PlayStation 5, which is insane.” – Luke [89:54]
• Same in other hardware: RAM, CPUs, etc.
• Lab’s upcoming tests of the old GTX 1080/1080 Ti found they’re still highly viable—even for 2026’s most-played Steam titles [98:06–99:26].

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8. Physical Media Death Spiral / Digital Access Crisis

[148:07 – 154:13]

• Sony to stop producing PlayStation physical discs in 2028:
  • 121 countries (billions of people) with no access to PlayStation Store or PSN will be totally cut off from purchasing games.
  • Harshest blow is dealt precisely to those most reliant on physical media.
  • “From a business standpoint I see the logic. But from a human standpoint, it’s very clear how problematic the behavior is.” – Luke [150:45]
• Parallels to the Helldivers launch and access for excluded regions.

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9. Fun, Memorable, and Offbeat Moments

• Middle-click drama:
  Heated back-and-forth on ergonomic preferences, RSI, and stubborn defaults [11:22–16:21].
• “Steam Games as Cartridges” DIY project:
  Redditor puts games on SATA SSDs and 3D prints custom carts that you slot to launch games on Linux—a "backlog buster" physical/digital hybrid [143:00–146:30].
• Random acts of kindness:
  Luke describes leaving chess sets at a local park as a social good—symbolic of the quiet ways individuals can make a real difference [234:02–241:32].
• **AI-generated Linus biography is hilariously (and ominously) full of errors, including confusing Linus’ wife with a famous Hong Kong actress [157:23–166:22].
• The death-spiral of online search and the struggle to find good results as AI and SEO pollute information [245:32–246:34].

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Notable Quotes

• Linus: "I am astronomically more comfortable on Linux right now, which is really weird to me." [08:25]
• Luke: "Windows is now your appliance." [07:23]
• Linus on Windows Tracking: "This is different because it was not disclosed at any time and there was no implicit tracking…" [05:07]
• Luke on Nvidia hiding hotspot temps: "Is it inaccurate and irrelevant or is it actionable? Because it cannot be both." [47:24]
• Linus (on PlayStation discs): "Just have physical frickin' disks, bro." [151:15]
• Luke (on search/AI info pollution): "We're doomed, man. How are we gonna find accurate information?" [165:07]
• Luke’s chess set philosophy: "Random acts of kindness are never small." [240:10]

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Important Timestamps

• [02:26] – Start of Microsoft tracking device ID segment
• [10:26] – Discussion of Linux migration tool features
• [11:22] – Linux advances & customization as a feature
• [21:00] – Proton 11, Steam Frame, SteamOS gaming
• [40:45] – Intel's Windows driver update for DQI
• [46:41] – Hidden GPU temperature drama with Nvidia
• [68:30] – YouTube Premium lawsuit segment
• [84:08] – "What is midrange?" hardware price spiral
• [128:14] – 75% of PS3 games now playable on PC/Emulation as preservation
• [148:07] – Sony drops physical discs, billions affected
• [157:23] – Linus reads hilariously incorrect AI-generated bio
• [234:02] – Luke’s park chess sets and "tiny good things"
• [245:32] – Lamenting the ruined internet/search

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Conclusion

This episode is packed with both alarm and excitement: The revelation of deep Windows tracking drives a heartfelt, practical campaign for daily Linux use, bolstered by ever-improving tools and ecosystem developments. The show also argues the stakes of digital ownership, preservation, hardware economics, and privacy, while threading through the everyday drama of life in tech—delivered in LTT’s signature accessible, punchy style. Whether you’re a power user alarmed by privacy overreach, a gamer, or someone looking for the soul of modern technology, this WAN Show makes the case: the time for Linux may really be now.

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This summary omits commercials, intros, and outros for clarity and focus on key content. For reference, you may want to check out segments starting at [02:26] (Microsoft Tracking) and [128:14] (PS3 Emulation/Preservation) for the largest throughlines of the episode.

Transcript

[Linus Sebastian]

The FIFA World cup is here and you can now feel the thrill of the pitch in FIFA World Cup Launch Edition on Netflix, a fast and fluid football game where your phone is the controller and the TV is the stadium. Play for your country in 16 different stadiums with up to four friends, all

[Luke Lafreniere]

included in your membership.

[Linus Sebastian]

Scroll to the Games tab on your TV and play FIFA World Cup Launch Edition now only on Netflix.

[Luke Lafreniere]

And Happy Friday. It's Friday. Welcome to the WAN show. We've got a great show lined up for you guys today. Microsoft admits that every Windows 11 install has a secret unique ID for tracking. Not only that, but they use it and so does law enforcement. It might be time to switch to Linux, like now, like today. Like, go start your download and then let it come down while you watch the rest of the show. We'll also be talking about the class action that's hitting YouTube over false advertising around YouTube Premium. They are alleging that Google advertises it as having no interruptions. And yet right now, here on the WAN show, right, right now, you could have Premium and hear me tell you about our high quality true spec cables available [e-mail]. that's right. We've got almost all lengths and connector ends in stock and there's not a darn thing that YouTube can do to prevent me from telling you about it. What else we got going on this week, Mr. Lafreniere?

[Linus Sebastian]

We got a topic. I'm really confused.

[Luke Lafreniere]

You had the whole time that I was talking to fine two. Did I pick yours again?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, one of them, proton 11, is here. That's exciting, considering we're talking about how you might want to switch over. That's, I mean, a pretty important thing for a lot of people in this audience.

[Luke Lafreniere]

A lot of gamers.

[Linus Sebastian]

And 75% of all PlayStation 3 games are now playable on PC.

[Luke Lafreniere]

That's a pretty big deal in the emulation space.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

The show is brought to you Today by Vessi, OpManager, Nexus Cape, and Whisper Flow, alongside our usual rap partner, dBrand, our laptop partner, Razer, and our chair partner, also Razer. Let's jump right into our headline topic, which is, of course, Microsoft admitting to the existence of a secret Global Device Identifier, or GD ID that was revealed after US Prosecutors unsealed a federal complaint regarding alleged hacker Peter Stokes, who was wanted in connection with the 2025 breach of a US luxury jewelry retailer. According to the complaint, Microsoft provided the FBI with a way to trace Stokes's Windows PC across VPNs and proxy servers through three countries. This is crazy. Seriously guys, I'm not being all hyperbolic here. I'm not being all like, conspiracy theory. Where's my tinfoil hat? Keep the radio waves out of my brain. This is a serious problem. A Microsoft representative explained GDID in the complaint as this is a, quote, a persistent device level identifier that is designed to uniquely identify an installation of Windows operating system on a device, either a physical device, for example, mobile phone or laptop, or virtual machine across certain Microsoft services and scenarios. End of quote. According to the story posted by Windows Latest, Microsoft uses it to manage software licensing and Windows Store apps. But because it links all your online activities on that computer back to one single identity, law enforcement can use it to track a device's true owner across the Internet. Now, reinstalling Windows does generate a new global device identifier so it doesn't stay with you forever. But because all of this is being fed back to Microsoft, the second that you sign in to another account that you were signed into on the old machine, it's linked and they would be able to resolve both of those GDIDs to one key individual person.

[Linus Sebastian]

Is this like a huge GDPR problem?

[Luke Lafreniere]

I'm not sure. Hold on. Not quite done yet. The story states that when investigators hit a dead end tracing IPs to VPN providers, Microsoft themselves provided the FBI with records showing what stokes his device was doing. The Windows latest story has some suggestions on how you might maintain your privacy and there's a full reverse engineering analysis from GitHub user. Sometimes wonder if, if you really want to get into the weed. So Dan, if you could throw that link into the chat for all the wonderful folks who are watching today. And now it's time for us to us to discuss like look, I am not a ne' er do. Well, in general, I have taken a pretty loose approach to the trackability of my devices. I'm a public figure. I mean it just kind of comes with the territory. This is different because it was not disclosed at any time and there was no implicit tracking. Like in the modern age, if I sign into a web service using a credit card or using an email that I use across various services, there's at least as a technical user there's some level of understanding that there's some tracking here. You know, if I'm, if I'm doing anything on a cellular phone, right, where I know that my location can be triangulated from the towers that I'm nearest and that's, that's the best case scenario, right? Then Then I get that here we're talking about devices that don't have a cellular radio. We're talking about devices that, you know, never. That don't need any reason to keep track of where I am and what I'm doing that inherently. Like, I assume that if I'm not enabling something like Windows, recall that what I'm doing on my device is actually not visible to my operating system. And guys, maybe I'm like, maybe I'm overreacting. That's possible. But I don't know, Luke, I don't think so.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, I don't really. I don't really think so either. I'm quite on the train of just pushing more to Linux. I do think it's not going to be perfect for every scenario. You know, if you're doing video editing stuff, it's still really rough, but there is an option where you can, you know, work if you need to do something like video editing. You could work in Windows just for that and then jump off the second you do basically anything else. And you end up using a dual booting scenario as like your Windows portion is an appliance, which is interesting because years ago it would have been seen as kind of the other way around. Maybe you use the Linux portion as an appliance, but now, yeah, if you have something like video editing, which really isn't in my opinion solved on Linux yet, there are some ways to make it work, but it's still kind of funky. There's also things outside of just video editing. Certain games might not be super compatible or whatever.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Professional applications.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yep. Do that thing, whatever that thing is, and then you can jump back and go back to Linux. I am astronomically more comfortable on Linux right now, which is really weird to me. It's also weird how fast that happened, but it feels very true. I also wanted to point out on the subreddit right now, let me just throw this in the doc. I didn't actually think it was going to end up being applicable on the show today. And then it was immediately, but I posted it in the discussion questions here. There's a community member, Gil Ghiodwif.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Gil Dwift, sorry, is my best guest.

[Linus Sebastian]

Sure, let's go with that. I am building a tool to fix the in quotes LTT Linux Challenge pain points which they're identifying as a zero hassle migration from Windows. Super interesting. There's some other tools like this as well. I'm assuming we're going to keep making some amount of Linux content and I think that's going to be including trying to make it easier and easier for people to move over and have a successful migration. So I don't know. Take a look at this. I haven't spent a ton of time looking it up, but open source and

[Luke Lafreniere]

what it actually does right now Data and profile migration so copies your files and maps them directly over to your new home directories. Browser migration automatically carries over your browser profile. So when you boot into Linux for the first time, your tabs and active website sessions open up right where you left them on Windows System configuration sync. Okay, this is pretty cool because this is something where not only is not everything the same, but the place to go find and change it might be a little bit different. So it grabs your current Windows keyboard layouts and localized WI fi configuration so you don't have to input passwords or settings during setup and no USB drive required. So it should install natively without forcing the user to flash a bootable thumb drive or change physical boot priorities. In the bios.

[Linus Sebastian]

He seems to have a bunch of distro options as well. Like this is a pretty cool project and one thing I noticed is just that Linux is moving really fast right now. So if there's a problem, if there's a reason why you can't use it, I wouldn't write it off long term. Just wait a little bit. Like even the we. We've pointed out during the challenge that the changes from the first time we did the Linux challenge and the most recent time we did the Linux challenge were just night and day. Night and day.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

And then literally since we started the most recent one to now, there has been dramatic change. A topic for later on in the show is Proton 11. Someone's working on this right now. Like it's a very, very, very lively space. So if you have some form of issue, you know, maybe it'll. It gets solved or improved at least soon. I mean my install of Cashy has improved since I installed it. Like it's, it's so cool.

[Luke Lafreniere]

In my, in my daily Steam Machine video I make, I make a very strong appeal to someone to fix the middle click auto scrolling issue that you and I have. Luke. Yeah, and honestly it's one of those things where I found plenty of Linux people who were doing that classic thing where they tell you you don't actually want that paste is better, you want middle click to be paste text. And it's like no, actually I definitely do not prefer that and I do want it to be auto scroll and I lay out kind of the ergonomic reason for it like it will be within just a couple weeks of daily ing steamos, some of my old RSI pain and tightness started to come back from having to use the scroll wheel so much and I had to kind of remind myself, don't do that. Move the mouse, go find the stupid little thing and drag the page back up. Like I'm someone who reads at my computer a lot and it's just plain better. Autoscroll is just better. And for me when I read a lot, it's way more useful than middle click being paste text, especially when my left hand is usually on my keyboard in the left home row position anyway where I can just as easily click Control V. And so hopefully an enterprising Linux person will help us out. Bookhorse yes, it is a browser setting in Firefox, but not in every browser. And it's a little bit clunky.

[Linus Sebastian]

It's a little clunky, yeah. It is not the same. Yeah, I ran into the same advice. It's better than not having it, in my opinion. But it is not the same.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, so we need to get it. And like why, why settle for worse? Like that's.

[Linus Sebastian]

Well, no, I mean, I can understand someone who might prefer the other way.

[Luke Lafreniere]

No, I just mean the clunky current solution.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, you know, I, I appreciate that there are opinionated portions of Linux, but I also think at its core Linux is a customizable option heavy thing and I think it would be great if there was the option for either one. I want the people who like pasting that way to be able to keep pasting.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Of course they should to be able

[Linus Sebastian]

to use the scroll wheel the way that I want to use the scroll wheel. I want both to be. Why not both?

[Luke Lafreniere]

And that's always the funny thing to me, I don't encounter it as much with Linux people. It's. If I had to pick a community to kind of put that stereotype on more than any other, it would be the Apple community where you kind of say, hey, I'd really love it to work this way. And they say, well, you shouldn't. And I go, well, yeah, but I do though. And they go, well, I like it working the way it does. And I go, good, then it should keep working the way it does. And also it should work the way that I'd like it to work. These are not mutually exclusive, but it's something that, I don't know, some people really seem to. To struggle with. One thing I will say is that when I was dinking around in the terminal a bunch trying to get Odysseus working Pewdiepie's thing, I ended up using middle click to paste a lot. And I was like, okay, I get it. But that was a weird situation where I wasn't really like at a desk. I was at like, I was on like a test bench and my keyboard was like way over there because I had the 5090 with the weird power modification that I was like fixing the soldering job on in the middle of the day. So like my keyboard was not super convenient and I was using a bunch of like AI assistants to help set up like to help with like Linux terminal commands and stuff because no, I don't want to go do a six month course on Linuxing in order to, you know, set up this program that I just want to use. So it was a bit of an unusual situation but it was enough for me to see the utility of it. I could definitely see it.

[Linus Sebastian]

I do think terminal heavy users are probably where a lot of that is coming from. The people who like the scroll wheel paste definitely. And I get it for that use case again it's just kind of like I could actually see myself getting used to it during certain workflows and potentially wanting to switch back and forth because again I like doing what you do. When I'm reading something really long or trying to load a ton of comments or do whatever, which is a very common thing for me in a browser, I like to just middle click scroll down.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Or when you're done reading and you want to go back up to the top and get to the navigation right back up.

[Linus Sebastian]

I like that scroll wheel stuff. Yeah but, but I, there are times where like I've, I've been like okay, I think I get it with liking scroll wheel paste because of needing to jump back and forth between a bunch of terminals. So yeah, I mean I if in my perfect world I would have some funky keybind where I could switch between the two.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Hey, Xfin724 brings up something that was actually driving me kind of nuts and I could go look it up. But hey, why don't we have it as a live conversation on WAN show what's up with Control V in the terminal on Linux adding extra crap to the beginning and end of what I copied. Can someone explain that to me? Because if you right click paste it's fine or if you middle click then it's fine. But if you Control V then there's just a bunch of like bullsh t in it and I don't understand that. Does anybody know?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, it's not paste. I remember looking it up at one point in time. But it's like, you have to control

[Luke Lafreniere]

Shift V. No, no, I don't want to because that's another key. Why would I do that? No, someone explained it to me in a way that has a purpose. Adding extra crap to the thing that I'm pasting. Because it does paste.

[Linus Sebastian]

Control C and Control V were assigned to system functions like stopping active programs long before graphic windows and clipboards existed. So it's. It's old stuff that has carried forward.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

When I was hearing about terminal stuff for like a long. I remember years ago. Yeah.

[Dan]

Like when I'm trying to exit a program running on Windows, it's Control C to like stop the running execution.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

This is not a Linux unique thing. Yeah, it's just command lines.

[Dan]

It's older than copy and paste.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Interesting. All right, it gets to win. Yeah, interesting.

[Linus Sebastian]

I think I looked this up when I was in university. I'm not talking like a couple of years ago. A long time ago.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So why does it put 200, whatever, tilde, some crap and then Tilde, like what function did that serve?

[Linus Sebastian]

That. I have no idea what you're talking about, to be honest.

[Luke Lafreniere]

And if it doesn't serve a function, then could it just not? I feel like that's the kind of thing that there's got to be like. There's got to be a way I could make Linus Linux and that could be like the one thing I change. That would be like my fork of like mint. It would just change that. Control V would just work in the terminal and then it would be fine.

[Dan]

It could be a box in the settings that you got to pick.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

Mac OS users are just freaking out for me even suggesting that.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Sorry, guys.

[Dan]

I can hear them screaming.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, that's amazing.

[Linus Sebastian]

What the heck is an option. Anyways? Should we talk about another topic?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, sure. Want to pick one?

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

I want to keep it kind of on topic a bit though, because I want to jump to on top of

[Luke Lafreniere]

when show who are you and what have you done with the WAN show?

[Linus Sebastian]

I've been. I've been. I've been around San Francisco for too long. I want to talk about AI.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh no. They got him. They got him. Look how they massacred my boy.

[Linus Sebastian]

It is. It is. Dude, you know what? Okay, we'll take a quick aside before we go into there. We're back to normal. Win Show. We're Back. We're back, baby. It is so weird being here, man. Oh, you like, you drive around for a little bit. All the billboards are like, this is the AI to rule. All the AI. Use this for your CI CD development pipeline. Like it's. Where am I? Even the airport is always like alien space.

[Luke Lafreniere]

You walk through the airport and it's like advertisements for like hosting stuff and like.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, like there was a. There was a digital ocean billboard. Yeah, like billboards.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Sure thing, man.

[Linus Sebastian]

Like there's. There's probably a tiny amount of people in BC at all that even know what DigitalOcean is like. Oh man. It's very interesting being here. It's very like you are palpably in nerd land.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh yeah, brother.

[Linus Sebastian]

Which is kind of cool. But it's a weird space. And then you're driving around and you see like just Adobe building, Oracle building, Nvidia building. I remember the first time, like years ago, the first time you and I were down here, I remember seeing the Zynga building and being like, what? Like the Facebook game company? Really? I guess they would have a headquarters somewhere.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yep.

[Linus Sebastian]

Why not here, I guess. Sure. Anyways, okay, back on topic. Proton 11.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Valve has released Proton 11, expanding some game compatibility, which is awesome with certain titles including Universe Generator, the Golden Sword, DCS World Steam Edition. That will get some more nerds over to Linux for sure. Resident Evil, Resident Evil 2, Dino Crisis, Dino Crisis 2 From Dust, Metal Gear Survive, Warhammer, Vermintide 2, Gothic 1 Classic, and X Plane 12. What's a bigger deal is it includes an integration to Fex. Fex? I'm 2605 for ARM64EC. Oh, that's cool. As well as several core dependencies. I'm going to call it fex. FEX is the compatibility layer responsible for the ability to play x86 games on ARM like we talked about in our initial Steam frame coverage. That is exciting.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So I'm going to say this because I don't know anything yet, but I hope that this means Steam Frame is coming really soon.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, I didn't see this necessarily as a time frame thing, but that makes sense.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Well, they recently started updating some games with a works on frame badge. Okay. Proton 11 is here with Effects update.

[Dan]

There's a new Steam VR UI update.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yep. So there. Things are like. Things are firing like every week. There's a new. A new prerequisite for the Steam frame launch that seems to kind of land and it's all kind of working its way up to a lot of The. A lot of the initial Steam Machine stuff seems to be mostly resolved. Like they've got that red bar thing that's getting patched really shortly. Like we're. The dust is settling on Steam Machine and it looks like we're gearing up for Steam Frame. I am legit, so excited for this thing. Once I actually know anything, then I. I'll have to. I'll have to clam up. But I don't have a shipping date. I don't have an availability date. People keep asking me, dude, it's crazy how much hype there is about Steam Frame. I literally googled Steam Frame release date rumor. I'm going to. I'm going to see if I can find this again. Frame coming in July. Is this the one? Hold on. No, this doesn't seem to be the one. But I came across. I came across a. A discussion on Reddit where something was pretty strongly upvoted that it must be coming pretty soon because Linus had marks on his face in a video that seemed to be indicative of that he was wearing the Steam frame recently for testing. I'm like, bro, I just had a mark on my face. You need to calm down. I do not have a Steam frame.

[Linus Sebastian]

I think it was an early release version of the Steam frame.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Sure, sure.

[Linus Sebastian]

I think they're right. I think they're right.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Sure, sure thing.

[Dan]

Now, what about our information on Half Life 3?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Linus Sebastian]

Well, that's releasing on. Okay.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Are you pretending to be looking it up?

[Linus Sebastian]

No. Linus and Luke, how are your current Linux experiences been going since the Linux challenge? I think it's actually been a while since we've talked about this. Are you still okay?

[Luke Lafreniere]

We should. But I found it running it on. Hold on one sec. Any rumors about YouTubers reviewing the frame right now? This is from eight days ago. Are there currently any rumors before this? Demi. Okay. I like how the questions not even are the rumors true, just do they exist? Like, people are so frickin hyped for this thing. I heard LTT has it and loves it. I also heard he's convincing Valve to wait another month to stick it to the fans. Like, only leak I found is Linus having some VR headset imprints on his forehead. Might have been the Pimax Dream Air. It wasn't that either. Like, what. What do you guys. What are you guys talking about? You're just the. And to be clear, like, it's fine.

[Dan]

Sure.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Like, you know, as far as rumors about me go, those are pretty. Those are pretty tame.

[Linus Sebastian]

Maybe it Was the big Screen beyond three?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, must have been. Must have been. I'm gonna get my big Screen beyond three before Luke even wears his big screen beyond two. It's gonna be great. But just like seeing how, how rabidly excited people are just to talk about this, just to even, even meme and post about it. Like I, I think, I think the frame is going to completely eclipse the already smash hit success of the Steam machine. Like Valve has another winner on their hands here. This is crazy. Anyway, what are you gonna say?

[Linus Sebastian]

But yeah, are you, are you. So are you still running? You still running Linux anywhere, bro?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, so I've been, I've been. I have. Other than the machine off of popos? Well, it depends what you mean. I am running a Steam machine and I am also daily ing a Steam machine. Yeah, see, he's having a real hard time with this. That's why I'm going to remind him. Oh, of an ad. Okay, no, I'm switching away from that. I'm not endorsing Roundup.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah,

[Luke Lafreniere]

why does the WAN account always get Roundup ads? Oh, what is this? I got two ads. Okay, we're going to have to buy premium for the WAN show accounts. Don't do that. I'm not spending money on that. I use it once a week. It's fine. Oh man. Two unskippables. Get out of here. Okay, so Jordan and Justin, with some guidance and a little bit of help from me, this was a, this was a team effort alongside, I think it was. Was it Disappearing Inc. That flagged this thing for us or was it Free Geek? I don't remember, but one of the local like, like computer antiquity slash recycler people, I'm pretty sure it was Disappearing Inc. Got their hands on one of the original Steam machines that Valve seeded out to Media, not including us. But that's fine. I can wait. I'm patient. And then we built like the sickest little small form factor build in it that ended up just. Oh man, being so good. Like it's so good and the specs are so good. I think we ended up with, what was it? A 7800x3D. And then a, I want to say it was a 9070 or a 9070 XT or something like that. So that's what I'm actually using for my daily driver machine. Right now I'm running steamos. It just gets like normal Steam OS updates. Everything's working great. The only thing that I don't have that a Steam machine has is I don't have the built in dongle for the Steam controller, but frankly, I don't really care about that. I. I like the Steam controller for what it is. I think that Valve did an outstanding job of executing on their vision for it, but it's not something that I need at my desk where I already have a keyboard and mouse. It's just not necessary for me, so I don't care about that. And then it also doesn't have support for cec, but I'm using it as a desktop PC anyway, so that also doesn't matter for me. So it's way more powerful, it's louder, but that doesn't matter because remember, I have fiber optic cabling running through my home. So I just put it in the basement and then I don't have to look at it or think about it or listen to it. It's just. It's just a pristine, immaculate steamos experience and I am freaking loving it. It's a Steam machine, but faster and better. And, and I've been.

[Linus Sebastian]

How was the SteamOS?

[Luke Lafreniere]

It was kind of a pain in the butt, but I didn't have to do it. Jordan did it. That machine has literally just been sitting there ready for me and, And I'm loving it. So for the first week of my daily driving Steam machine challenge, I was actually carrying my Steam machine in my backpack to and from work so that it was the only computer I was using. And then I wanted to like ride my motorcycle one day and I was like, oh, it's such a pain with the Steam machine because it's like, it's like on your back. And my, the posture on my bike is like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not comfortable to have a ton of weight on your back. And I already have my tech sack in my bag and I was like, I really don't want to wait. Why am I doing this? I should just have Steam machine at home.

[Linus Sebastian]

Because now you're. It's. It's almost less of daily Steam machine now it's more just daily and steamos. Yeah.

[Dan]

And I.

[Luke Lafreniere]

And I spent the first week.

[Linus Sebastian]

You're still spending a lot of time with Steam Machine.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, I still spent the first week only with the Steam machine, which did make me notice some things I missed in my review.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. And honestly, I think, you know, Steam OS is the truly interesting part of this whole situation.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

My opinion.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

So like, that seems fine, 100%, but yeah, that's wicked. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, especially after hearing your feedback about it. I was pretty tempted to get one, but, man, they're so expensive, and I kind of wanted, like, a little bit more power.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

And I'm kind of in the just use the OS, build your own computer again camp.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So CEC is an interesting thing because you have a desktop computer, so there ain't no way you're planning to use your SteamOS machine as your desktop. I'm thinking this would be a console, right?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. Home theater. Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So we're actually sourcing pretty much every CEC adapter that we can get our hands on right now for Short Circuit, because I really want to solve this once and for all in my theater room. I'm playing around right now with the CEC adapter that Jordan got for this video that we did not get working properly on SteamOS at the time. It works pretty well on Windows for me, but it's like. It's not a silver bullet either. Like, I ran into a situation where something I'd never heard of before called a CEC storm was causing my computer to wake up when other devices were chatting over cec. So it turns out it's a. It's a really weird architecture. It's like. It's like a ring topology or something. Or it's like. It's more like a. It's less like a switching architecture, and it's more like a hub architecture where it just, like, blasts out, and then if the right. Hits the right fan, then gets real. Like, it's just. CEC is a mess. It's an absolute mess. And so I'm. I'm still kind of struggling with it. And every device has different degrees of customizability and control. Like, a device that does it really well is the Nvidia Shield. It lets you really get in there and say, okay, allow this device to turn on other devices. Allow other devices to turn on this device. Wake other devices when this one turns on. Wake this device when other devices turn on. Or don't do those things. You can configure all of those with a pretty significant degree of granularity. But then my AV receiver is just like, CEC on, feasy off. What does that mean? And you can't tell it on which inputs and outputs. It's just like, you got to be kidding me. You guys do this for a living? This box costs, like, $4,000. Are you. Have you got. Have you gone mad? So it's just. It's pretty. Yeah, it's pretty annoying. Shiraft2k says, Just use the Silverstone Key Fob Shrap2k. Tell me you're not married without telling me you're not married. Like, it's gotta be kid friendly. It's gotta be like the wife and the girls want to watch a movie. Otherwise literally no one will use it. That's the whole point of CEC is that it took this whole crappy multi remote thing and solved it. Except that it's a giant piece of shit. Man, what a life goal that would be to like fix cec. If someone wants to do that, like, I'll invest. I'm gonna say it right now. If you can give me like a credible plan and like, like show you've done the work, I think I'm in. I think that could be my third investment. Crystal says, you know, girls can figure that out. I'm. I'm. I'm gonna let you in on a little secret, Crystal. It's not that they can't figure it out. It's just that most of them don't give a. And don't want to in my life. And I gotta, I gotta work around the people in my life. I can't change what people, what people are and what they're interested in and

[Linus Sebastian]

what their preferences are they have the intelligence to do. So they just. Those particular ones don't care.

[Luke Lafreniere]

That's right. And in general, if our demographics are anything to go by, they're not, they're not weird freaks. So we do need to have solutions for people who don't care and don't want to figure this stuff out and don't want to deal with multiple remotes.

[Dan]

It's.

[Luke Lafreniere]

It's just that simple. I, I know some people do care, but I don't get to pick. And I know the names and I know the preferences of everybody my wife would have over for a girls night. And none of them include determining which HDMI input is correct. Literally zero. They're not interested. And so I gotta. That's the thing, that's how consideration works, right? Is. I don't. The golden rule is not really that great. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. It's like, no, actually. Do unto others as they would have you do unto them. Like, that's the, that's the right way.

[Linus Sebastian]

As a reminder.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

In case people get confused. He's talking about the women in his life.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Of course. Yeah, of course. And also the demographics on the channel. Again, it's not like it's not a great.

[Linus Sebastian]

Doesn't mean there's zero.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Doesn't mean there's zero.

[Linus Sebastian]

Not as common.

[Luke Lafreniere]

But it means the odds. It means the. The odds are. And remember I mentioned, like, my kids, too? And some kids are super tech savvy, too. And don't mind it.

[Linus Sebastian]

Emma's better with the TV than I am because I watch so little tv.

[Luke Lafreniere]

That actually doesn't surprise me at all. Yeah, not one bit, Luke. Yeah, Like, I. I would be. I would actually be surprised if you could even find the TV remote in your house. Do you know where she keeps it?

[Linus Sebastian]

The only reason why I can is because she got this really cool, manipulatable, like, sculpture of two hands where you can move the fingers, and she has it, like, positioned so that the robo, like, beautifully gets held by the hand.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Holy sh. T. I just had the coolest idea. Okay, no, no, wait.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, boy.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Hear me out. Okay. You know how Yvonne does, like, craft night sometimes?

[Linus Sebastian]

Okay.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay. You know those things that you can do, like, with kids or, like, as a couple, where you create, like, a mold of your hands, and then you, like, you put plaster in it and you, like, make your hands. You and Emma should make your hands, like. Like a next level. One of those hold.

[Linus Sebastian]

Holding a TV remote.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Holding a TV for the remote. Cause that way. That way you could have like, a. Like, a piece of decor that's also like. Like a special, like, memory thing. And then. Yeah. And then. Yeah, Luke. And then Luke can find the remote. That. Dude, that'd be so freaking cool.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. I mean, it sounds like a fun craft night. I. I just feel like we're gonna

[Luke Lafreniere]

get Luked up to craft night. At some point.

[Linus Sebastian]

I have to be there because my hand has to be molded. That's clever. I was gonna say, like, it's. It's. I feel like she would just immediately use the. Like. Oh, if I ask where the remote is, she's like, it's in your hand.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Nice. That's hilarious. Yeah, that's great. You're already holding it, smart guy.

[Linus Sebastian]

That's not bad.

[Dan]

All right.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, sure. That sounds fun.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Just be happy that she didn't ask you to mold your butt. Here's the remote. Okay. That would be a pretty funny remote holder, too. Just, like, a cheek fit. Just on the side table. Just a pair of cheese.

[Linus Sebastian]

You know what? You know what that could end up being is like a. A. Like a dirty cooking spoon holder.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

It, like, shrinks down.

[Luke Lafreniere]

That'd be sick. Oh, dude. Okay, so we make, like. Instead of just doing, like, sentimental hand things, we make, like. We make, like, hand things that do stuff.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay.

[Linus Sebastian]

It's actually not bad.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I'm actually. I'm actually messaging Yvonne now. I'm messaging Yvonne. Okay. All right. You want to pick a. You want to pick a new topic?

[Linus Sebastian]

I just wanted to say, I realized while sitting here saying that, like, oh, yeah, I'd rather kind of build my own Steam machine just to make it a little bit stronger, that this finally gives me an excuse to build in a fractal Terra. This isn't in no way sponsored by fractal, but I always loved the fractal north, and the fractal Terra is super cool. And the green fractal terra with the wood accent is just like.

[Dan]

Yeah, that looks nice.

[Linus Sebastian]

Beautiful. And has that, you know, appeal that we were just talking about. Like, I think Emma would be much more okay with one of these sitting in the home theater, like, center console thing than most other options.

[Luke Lafreniere]

It's so funny how the. The Terra with wood accents went from being, like, unique to being the case that everyone buys. I had actually built in four of them before I even realized that I had built in four of them just because everyone in their dog was picking them for their ultimate upgrades.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

[Luke Lafreniere]

It's a really nice case.

[Linus Sebastian]

Cool.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, it's a great case.

[Linus Sebastian]

And I love the north, but the north is huge. Oh, I don't want it in this case. I generally don't mind computers that are decently large, but, like, at the home theater setup, man. No, I can avoid it. No.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, no, you don't want something that big for, like, a living room. It's like, what, are you in college still? Like, come on. Yeah, Even with the wood accents. It's just. It's not for. It doesn't go in the living room if it was next to a computer desk that is in a shared space, 100% valid, but I've got one as my workstation PC. You can't put a giant thing like that.

[Dan]

It ain't going in the living room.

[Luke Lafreniere]

No.

[Dan]

Hell no.

[Linus Sebastian]

Beautiful case, though. Yeah, I agree. Anyways, okay. You said next topic. Let's see. Okay.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah. What?

[Linus Sebastian]

What? No, no, I'm not gonna do it. I don't even understand why it's in the doc. So I'm not.

[Luke Lafreniere]

No, do it. Do it now. I want to know.

[Dan]

Do it. Come on.

[Linus Sebastian]

Okay, because I'm confused, but I haven't read the whole topic. Intel releases major driver Update for Windows 11. How is this a WAN topic?

[Luke Lafreniere]

No, this is a WAN topic.

[Linus Sebastian]

Intel released new WI FI and Bluetooth drivers. Wow. That Include enhancements aligned with Microsoft's Driver Quality Initiative, or dqi.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Microsoft recently told intel, amd, Qualcomm and other partners that drivers need to stop hurting Windows 11's reliability reputation.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, we talked about this on Wednesday.

[Linus Sebastian]

I do remember this. Now. DQI is Microsoft's attempt to raise the floor and includes Microsoft authored class drivers,

[Luke Lafreniere]

less unnecessary kernel mode interference, and more user mode drivers where possible. This is good.

[Linus Sebastian]

That is good.

[Luke Lafreniere]

This is real progress. This is actual shipping drivers from intel that are designed to make Windows 11 less of a steaming pile of. This is good.

[Linus Sebastian]

No, that is good. Okay.

[Dan]

Yeah, sure.

[Luke Lafreniere]

That was it.

[Linus Sebastian]

I just wanted to. So the point of note is that someone actually did it.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Which is great.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Real action, concrete action is happening and it's fast. I mean, they announced this driver Quality initiative, what, like a couple months ago or something like that?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, that was pretty quick.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So we are already getting. The only question is why did it take you so long, Microsoft, to care about this, you know? No, no, no. I'm not going to dwell on the past. Good job, Progress. Okay, sorry. Go ahead, Luke.

[Linus Sebastian]

Good job, progress. Also, we figured out what you're tracking, so see you later. You know, the DQI group probably had no idea. I don't know. You know, maybe they're cool. Huge companies like that. It's.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, you'll get these groups or these individuals that really do have the best intentions and like, yeah, really deeply care about the user experience. And then I'm sure they are reading stuff like that over on Windows Latest and making the exact same face that we are. Like, what? What is even the point of the good work that I'm doing over here when you're gonna go and do that with it? Like, come on, man.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. Hotspot temperature sensor on Nvidia's Blackwell GPUs is still accessible if you have access to Nvidia's internal mods tool.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, since that headline was written, this has gotten a little bit more complicated. Let me do the read for this one just in case they missed something. When the RTX 50 series came out, reviewers noticed that hotspot temperatures were missing from tools like Hardware Info and MSI afterburner. And while it looked like Nvidia had gotten rid of the feature, like it was no longer reported by the die, turns out the sensor was still there. It just wasn't accessible through the usual software. Well, Paulo Gomez, I assume a Brazilian repair technician and YouTuber investigated a customer's gigabyte RTX 5070Ti that was mysteriously throttling despite showing normal GPU temperatures in Windows in Linux, Gomez was able to use Nvidia's internal mods so modular diagnostic software to discover the hidden hotspot Sensor was hitting 107 degrees Celsius, even though the standard tools reported only around 68 degrees Celsius average GPU temperatures. And this was exactly why enthusiasts cared so much about being able to access hotspot temperatures, because it would reveal if a bad mount or a bad pace job was making it so that overall the dye was cool enough. But the hottest zones, the most compute intensive parts of the chip were overheating. He disassembled the card, found poor thermal paste coverage. Okay, yeah, there you go. So it's exactly what I was talking about. He reapplied the paste and confirmed that the hotspot temperature dropped and the throttling disappeared. Linus comment? Oh, okay. So they did put that in here. This seems to have been starting to make its way into regular tools. So I think hardware info, 50 series hotspot. Hold on, I'm just gonna Google this live. I think. Yes, hardware info. This is two days ago, according to video cards adds RTX 50 hotspot temperature reporting. RTSS can display it now too. So I'm a little frustrated because while I'm not sure that Nvidia ever said formally that it was removed, they certainly didn't do anything to correct the speculation that it had been removed. And it's a really useful tool for, for diagnosing, especially if you're, if you're doing aftermarket cooling like mounting something like a full coverage water block can, can be a little bit hazardous because there's so many surface level components like it'll, it'll directly, it'll directly cover, you know, with thermal pads. Although again, that's a great example of why this matters because if you have too thick of a thermal pad, right, it's making contact with all these other components on the board like your memory modules with your VRMs. And if you screw up something or you put on too thick of a thermal pad or you don't tighten something down enough, it can contact the die enough. Remember, this is a water block, so it's moving heat away really fast. So it can contact the dye enough to carry heat away, but it can not be in good contact with one small area that could be a very crucial spot that, you know, like Paul, like Paulo saw, that could cause the car to thermal throttle. And if we don't have access to that temperature sensor, then we have no way of that knowing if that's happening. So taking away useful tools that help us diagnose hardware is just like, not cool.

[Linus Sebastian]

Apparently, roughly 2ish years ago, Roman from Derbauer asked Nvidia about it not being there anymore and got a response of saying it was no longer accurate and no longer relevant. He obviously, you know, had thoughts about that, but that was what they said.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh man.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, there's some comments saying effectively exactly this, but I had the thought of like man telling. Telling Derbauer that some thermal measurement doesn't matter is a. What if they knew who he was?

[Luke Lafreniere]

I mean, if it's not accurate, then that's one thing. But this, this proves though, that they're taking action on the behavior of the GPU based on this number. Yeah, well, okay, which one is it? Nvidia. Is it inaccurate and irrelevant or is it actionable? Because it cannot be both.

[Linus Sebastian]

There's a lot of speculation. Yeah, but it makes sense to me. But it is still obviously speculation. Saying that maybe, you know, the modern cards run really hot and maybe it would have been bad for perceptions or sales or marketing or whatever to have these hotspot sensors blasting out crazy numbers.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Bad for marketing is the only real reason that I can think of for

[Linus Sebastian]

them to no longer relevant to the interest of selling more graphics cards. Maybe not no longer relevant to the user.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I see.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. This is just one thing I found. I don't know if they've had a more recent statement on that.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I doubt it. I think everyone just kind of accepted it and moved on.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Well, either way, I'm glad to see that this is out in the open now because it's a very useful tool.

[Linus Sebastian]

Mm.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Speaking of useful tools. Oh, never mind. I will do this after. But it's really cool. I'll tell you in a minute. First, I'm supposed to do the CW announcement. This week we launched the investment disclosure T shirt. Oh boy. How do I. I'm not gonna be able to screen share. And also, there it is. It's the one I'm wearing. It's pretty cool. It's designed to save me time and effort because if I just wear this shirt, then surely the investment disclosure will be all done. Amazing.

[Linus Sebastian]

Are you gonna do that?

[Luke Lafreniere]

No, no, I'm still gonna try and remember.

[Dan]

I just.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I very occasionally do forget. So yeah, we were like, haha, why don't we just do a shirt that's like investment disclosure and then if you forget, then whatever. This is great. Went and got a framework laptop for the shoot. Anywho, now available lttstore.com printed on our classic poly blend T Soft, breathable, everyday fit, high quality print that lasts. This is a shirt about investment disclosure. That's it. That's the bit. Fantastic. Thank you CW team. And if you guys were looking for an excuse to pick one up, then hey, while we're live is a great time to do it. All you got to do is add an item to your cart and you'll see checkout messages. These are the way to interact with the WAN show. We don't do twitch bits or super chats or anything like that because we think when you throw money at your screen, you should get high quality merchandise and apparel in return, not just, you know, Internet peen. So when you go ahead and enter your message here and check out, it will go to producer Dan. There he is. Who will curate your message or who will reply to it or who will pop it up on the stream. Do you want to show them what it looks like when you curate it, Dan?

[Dan]

Yeah, sure. Well, I mean I can't show it to them but I can demonstrate it.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Nice.

[Dan]

I think.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Solid. Hi dll.

[Dan]

What's something the audience thinks is easy about running lmg? That's actually quite hard. And conversely, what looks hard but is easy. PS UV hoodie. So good in UK Heat Wave. More colors please.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Scheduling. Scheduling is, is by far the least intuitively difficult or intuitive difficulty aspect of lmg. Like all the moving pieces, camera operators, you know, getting the, getting the hardware, you know, tested and in the right place with the right software loaded on it. Like a perfect example is this, this is the Razer Fold. We shot a short circuit for this today and compared to when we used to do a short circuit for a phone a couple of years ago, like back then we would just have the phone, it would come in and it would just like appear on set and then when we sat down to shoot the video it would like not be set up, it wouldn't be logged into the WI fi. So you'd waste like 20 minutes just dinking around like signing into Google accounts or in some cases it wouldn't have any battery left so you'd have to like plug it in and wait around for it to charge or like go shoot something else. So getting all those, all those little pieces pre organized. Like nowadays when this phone arrives on set, it's signed in, it's connected to the WI fi, it's got a couple apps on it that you might want to run. Like if you decide to run a game on it, it has Like Fortnite on it so that we can just have some over the shoulder gaming to cut in while we talk about our gaming performance measurements and stuff like that. I think that's the biggest challenge that people kind of take for granted and it's always in flux, it's always thrown for a loop. A perfect example of this would be when our Steam Machine arrived. We had a bunch of other stuff on the go, but it just arrived. Like brands do not consider that maybe you have a life, you just, you're just, I don't know, you're just a

[Linus Sebastian]

thing might be right, but like come on bro, you have to tell me

[Luke Lafreniere]

like that you send it over and magically content appears and that's all they kind of know a lot of them, some of, some are really good. Others just completely kind of take what you do for granted and the difficulties of what you do for granted. It's like, well we did all the hard work, we made the product and all you have to do is glaze it and like, come on, how long could that take? Right? So that's. Yeah, I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with that. Yeah. So we just had to drop everything we were doing so that we could put together and execute on a content plan for Steam Machine and actually I don't think I've said this publicly yet but like bravo to our team like putting that together. We had one Steam Machine sometimes for like a really big launch, we're, we managed to get our hands on more than one so that like labs can be testing it while we're shooting the short circuit, unboxing and then it can, that one can make its way to someone to have like you know, the experiential daily driving experience with it. And then we get the labs numbers in and then that one goes in for B roll while the host is holding the other one for a roll. Like when you have a lot going on, it can be really useful to have more than one. But we managed to get a short for ltt, a long form for ltt, a follow up long form where we did like a Steam Machine killer and compared it against it for LTT and, and a long form short circuit all like within a day or two of launch. It was pretty crazy. The team did an outstanding job.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. Chad has a good question. Why is the smiley face in disclosure like dead or something?

[Dan]

I don't know.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Don't worry about it. Don't overthink it.

[Linus Sebastian]

Okay.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Why is this a dollar sign? Who knows? It's a mystery.

[Linus Sebastian]

Also, when did. Well, I mean, that would make sense.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Stonks.

[Linus Sebastian]

Why did the. When was this first released on the store?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Today.

[Linus Sebastian]

Wow. I think. Am I reading this right? Your regular large is already sold out?

[Luke Lafreniere]

I don't know. Maybe. Good chat.

[Dan]

Nice. Nice. How about another?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, not on the Global Store. Large is in stock on the Global Store.

[Linus Sebastian]

I'm on the Global Store.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay.

[Dan]

I don't know.

[Linus Sebastian]

Then it says it will not be restocked.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, it won't be restocked. But that doesn't mean they're all gone. I think.

[Linus Sebastian]

It doesn't say they won't be restocked on everything.

[Luke Lafreniere]

All right, well, I will flag that for the team.

[Linus Sebastian]

Okay.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Good chat.

[Dan]

Nice.

[Linus Sebastian]

All right, Dan.

[Dan]

Oh, yeah, this one's for Luke.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yo.

[Dan]

What exhibit or creator are you most excited to see this year at Open Sauce? Did you bring anything to show off yourself, hoping to be there Sunday? Myself?

[Linus Sebastian]

I didn't bring anything to show off myself, but the creator warehouse team is here and they brought some cool stuff.

[Luke Lafreniere]

They brought the fire.

[Linus Sebastian]

They brought. Yeah, they brought some pretty sick stuff. They brought, I think, two different super large screwdrivers. I think they might both be 3x scale. I'm not sure. I think one of them is a translucent one and one of them is the just normal screwdriver they also brought. My favorite thing that they brought, really, is they have like the history of the. The normal standard screwdriver, the scribe driver.

[Luke Lafreniere]

The pen.

[Linus Sebastian]

A pen. And then also the precision screwdriver. And they have those on, like big boards where you can see the different prototype versions along the way.

[Luke Lafreniere]

And now they're pictures of them. Like, they have the actual ones. Yeah, they have. They have the, like, the, like, laved out shaft that Sebastian put a plastic, like, generic pen top on and just taped it on. It's the, like, proof of concept.

[Linus Sebastian]

I had never seen that before. I saw that today. That prototype is actually sick.

[Luke Lafreniere]

It's the actual. It's the actual one that he handed me and said, hey, what do you think?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Which is pretty cool. The one there was not two.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, they're literally physically there. So, like, if you talk to them about it, they might even like pull it out and kind of show you more up close and stuff. So that's wicked. They have some of the actual engineers there, which is. Which is cool because you can talk to them. It kind of fits the theme of the show a little bit. And then they're selling a shirt and the, like, nuclear green UV reactive screwdriver. And then they have some deal going on. I don't remember the exact details. I think it's if you spend over 50 bucks, you get a coupon for free shipping on the store. And the reason why they did that totally makes sense to me. They didn't want to bring down every freaking product we have because that's kind of unfeasible.

[Luke Lafreniere]

A thousand SKUs or something.

[Dan]

I forget.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. So they were like, okay, well, we'll make it so you can like kind of have shopped everything by, you know, you can just get free shipping instead of. So that was a cool. Seemed like a pretty smart idea. Yeah. So I did not personally bring anything, but LMG did through. Through creator warehouse, particular booth or particular creator I'm excited to meet. Honestly, every year I meet random new creators that I've never heard of sometimes that are like massive. Like, gone is the time where as like a casual YouTube viewer, you would just know the top 100 YouTubers. Like, not only does is the top 100 YouTubers completely irrelevant to me at this point in time, but. Because who cares? But. But also there's like huge creators doing amazing things that I've just never heard of all the time. And I spend a lot of time on YouTube and there's not huge creators doing amazing things I've never heard of. So I just have fun meeting people doing cool stuff on YouTube. In terms of favorite booth, my favorite area tends to be the like hobbyist rocketry area, which apparently NASA is just here officially this year. And they brought heat shielding from. I think it's Artemis 1 and Artemis 2, which is super cool. So I'm excited to check that out. Yeah, usually it's the like, rocketry stuff. Last year there was a really, really cool booth where you played Counter Strike, but they made it so that a bunch of the grenade effects were. Had like a real life equivalent. It was like at least lowering things

[Dan]

and smoke machines and flashbacks.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, yeah, that was. That was a lot of fun. They did like the inverse for an incendiary grenade. So if you walked into an incendiary grenade, they would spray water on you. If I remember correctly, if you walked into a smoke grenade, it would shoot a leaf blower in your face and you had to like, deal with that. And what was Flashbang? Do you remember Flashbang?

[Dan]

There's a big strobe light, like xenon discharge pulse.

[Linus Sebastian]

It's this crazy light that like, makes it difficult to look at your screen. That was fun. But yeah, man, I don't know. I think it's impossible to, like, look forward to anything in particular at Open Sauce other than just Open Sauce. It's just so different every time.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I've never been. This will be my first one.

[Linus Sebastian]

I think you'll have fun. If you can move at all, you might want to bring, like, some form of disguise for your face. There are multiple creators that do that here. I'm not kidding.

[Dan]

Really? Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

There's just a ton of fans around.

[Dan]

You won't be able to go anywhere.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, I don't even, really, like, do, like, maker stuff as much.

[Dan]

No. But this is.

[Linus Sebastian]

It's not gonna matter. I can't move.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, yeah. You're not gonna be able to move. You might want. You might want to bring something.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I need to be able to move. I'm down. I'm down for just the one day. We're shooting a video. We actually have kind of a fun. We have kind of a fun video concept. It's going to be like a. Like a break my cable sort of concept and not like. Like, use a hammer. No, no, no, no, no. Relax. It's okay. But basically, I'm going to go find cool. The coolest stuff I can find that people brought that needs a USB cable. And then I'm going to, like, see if my cable can. Can make it work, which it should, because it's true spec. And then basically it's just an excuse to highlight, like, a half a dozen cool projects at Open Sauce that need a cable.

[Linus Sebastian]

Sounds like a great idea. And legitimately, we have had multiple booth people because it was an industry day today. Run up to the booth being like, can I buy a cable?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Really?

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Did anyone keep track of who any of them are? Because it'd be great for me to pop in on them tomorrow, I think.

[Linus Sebastian]

I think guys was. I know I was like, they were having a bunch of issues with the creator shuttles today. So this morning when I went to the event, I got an Uber and I just stuffed a bunch of random other creators in it. And when I had to come back to do Landshield, which I'm obviously not at the Crater Hotel, but when I had to go back to get my laptop and stuff, I did the same thing because the shuttles were also not working again. And while I'm in there, I'm just, like, whipping stuff out of my pockets. Like, we make all these different things. Look at our pens, look at our fidget spinners. Have you trapped in the car. But it's. I mean, it's. It's interesting because the, you know, I, I was talking to someone earlier today about this of the like 2010s era of like every single YouTuber is selling one to two shirts and one to two hoodies at a time. They're all probably from Teespring. Like that is over and lots of people are getting into products now. So every single year since I've been coming to Open Sauce, the like behind the scenes conversations from the creators has been for everyone, not just for, for me or us, has been like, what's going on in the product space? What are you working on? What are you thinking about? How are you approaching it? How do you work with manufacturers? How do you like. It's a ton of it is product stuff because that's where the external funding seems to be going for a ton of creators. And it's really interesting because I was talking to someone recently about like, you know, if you tried to make, if you weren't a youtuber and you tried to make the LTT screwdriver and get it on the market.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh my God, I don't know how I'd do it.

[Linus Sebastian]

It'd be so difficult.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

And the screwdriver is a little bit, maybe more like mass appeal. But There are some YouTuber products that if you were a standard company, it would be so hard to make. This like niche product really makes sense because it would be so difficult to actually hit a huge portion of the people in that niche. But there's market data out right now that as the generations progress, more and more people are doing purchasing decisions based on online creators. Gen z is at 41% and if you are a creator within a niche, you already have the attention of the whole niche. So it might make something that that niche has wanted for a long time an actually viable product because of your existence. Which is really cool.

[Luke Lafreniere]

It's almost like people followed you and glommed on to you because they had common interests.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

And alignment in terms of what they want.

[Linus Sebastian]

So if there's something once. Yes, you might be able to make it. And because of your natural marketing of already having that audience, you can make products and product lines potentially make sense that might not have otherwise, which is just super interesting. So it's a lot of the behind the scenes conversations are about stuff like that. Genuinely most of the conversations that people have with me at Open Sauce are about like our stuff that we make.

[Luke Lafreniere]

That's hilarious.

[Linus Sebastian]

Which is interesting.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So you know, it's funny. I actually shot a video today just doing a tier list of, of science and tech Creator merch. And again, I shouldn't be using the word merch. I don't want to use the word merch to describe our products, because they're not merch anymore. And frankly, none of the things that I checked out today were merch.

[Linus Sebastian]

Dude, you go back 10 years ago, and that would have been unheard of. T shirts, hoodies, and maybe one water bottle.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yep.

[Linus Sebastian]

And now it's a ton of really unique, very interesting.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Dude. I had a barbecue scrubber, a meat thermometer. So those were very. Those were. Those aligned extremely well. I cooked my meat, and then I cleaned my barbecue with creator products. I had an end table that was in the shape of a sewing thread. Spool. I had. No, no, no, not bobbin. Bobbin's a little one. It was the shape of a spool.

[Dan]

Oh, the big one.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah. I had. Although a bobbin ottoman to go with it would be amazing. Simone, if you're watching what else did we. What else did we have going on? Oh, dude. The Green brothers are involved in, like, laundry detergent. It was like a collab with technology connections. I was like, okay.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, that's amazing. Yep. That's perfect.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yep.

[Linus Sebastian]

Wait, is it out? I remember hearing about that, but it's.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, I don't know. Well, I have it, so. Wait, did I say. Did I say. I said dishwasher. Right?

[Linus Sebastian]

I think. I think you said laundry.

[Luke Lafreniere]

But sorry, not laundry. Dishwasher. Dishwasher detergent. Dishwasher detergent. Sorry. Sorry, guys. I said laundry. Sorry, sorry. Oh, apparently both are out. Okay, good. Making sure I'm not getting that right. Getting that wrong. Yeah. So the one that I checked out is the dishwasher detergent. Yeah. Very cool.

[Linus Sebastian]

That's awesome.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Heck, yeah. Oh, I was supposed to say one more thing. For the creator warehouse part of the show call outs. We have our end of season apparel sale with discounts up to 40% off running right now. So it's a great time to pick up some underwear. The lightweight packable jacket. The lawsuit hoodie. This one's particularly on topic right now. Excuse me. Yeah, so go check it out. That's just. If you go to LTT store, I think it's the. Yep. It's the second banner in the. In the banner carousel there. Just feel free. Feel free to browse. There's lots of good stuff in there. All right. Oh, wait, Dan, was that only one Com.

[Dan]

No. You did too.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, nice.

[Dan]

Yay.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Thank you.

[Dan]

You're actually ahead of schedule. Or schedule. I don't know what you North Americans say Anymore I have lost the understanding of which is the wrong one.

[Luke Lafreniere]

It's Jedul.

[Dan]

Jedule.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yes. Like Jeff.

[Dan]

Gotcha.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. It's a silent beginning of the whole word.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Thank you, John. Continue. Ouch.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Ow.

[Linus Sebastian]

That hurt.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, what do you want to talk about next? Should we talk about YouTube's class action lawsuit?

[Linus Sebastian]

I. Yeah, honestly, I was looking at that. Yeah, let's do it. A new proposed class action has hit Google stating that YouTube Premium is false advertising because they market ad free. But you will still see sponsored segments in videos.

[Dan]

Oh.

[Linus Sebastian]

Specifically the baked in ads that creators include. The lawsuit is citing other claims in YouTube's marketing such as no interruptions or most videos are ad free in the case of Premium Light. Hmm.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So our discussion question is, do you think there's an argument to be made here for this class action? Because clearly Google is not serving the ads and not profiting from them, but they're also representing the service that they are providing as an experience that people are not really having. Like, I just, I. With my built in ad block, like I'm aware of, you know, if I'm watching oversimplified or whatever, I'm aware that there's like a giant two minute ad read in the middle of it or whatever and I'm like, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. And like I don't like it doesn't bother me. But also if you don't have adblock in your brain. Yeah, I can see, I can see encountering that and going, well, what am I even paying for then?

[Linus Sebastian]

Well, YouTube Premium has built in ad skip.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, but I don't think.

[Linus Sebastian]

And also I think the precedent here is not that. And the re. The argument that I would make is that like on all ad free platforms that I know of, there's still. What is it called, product placement advertisements and lots of other forms of advertisements. Just because it's not full screen roles doesn't mean there isn't other forms of advertisements. So that has been true for a very long time. There's also been native integrations on other platforms that are ad free for a very long time or non native integrations. I guess, I don't know, I'm losing the terminology. But when the hosts talk about a thing instead of it being like a cutaway to an ad, that has been true on other platforms for a while.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Like a plug, you mean?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And yeah, I don't know. As a very long term premium user myself, ad skip, bro, like, what's the problem?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, because it does the way that YouTube does that is they, they put up a prompt to skip frequently skipped chunks of the video, right?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Which generally corresponds to almost always the read.

[Linus Sebastian]

Because the way to do it before that was if you looked at the timeline of the video, it gave you this like waveform and the waveform was essentially a retention graph and you would look at the dip and then this like massive surge. And the massive surge was because people would click on that. So that was just the old form of it was you would just very clearly see where the ad ended by looking at the waveform of retention. And then they added, as people are pointing out, a little white dot which is the end of the frequently skipped area. So you can just click on it on the timeline or there's also a button that shows up in the corner that says jump forward or jump whatever, I don't know. And it'll just skip it for you. So like, I don't know. I understand the argument that the class action is making is that the ad is there at all. Not that it isn't easily skippable, but I do think there's quite a bit of precedent for it being the type of thing that they're talking about is platform inserted, unskippable, like pre rolls, mid rolls, whatever. Not stuff that's baked into the content naturally by the user that generated that content.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I'm.

[Linus Sebastian]

There isn't platform ads.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I'm going to both sides. This one I like. If YouTube says in their marketing no interruptions. Right. I, I could see that both ways. On the one hand, as a viewer who's, you know, getting a two minute read for. Oh man, I'm trying to think of what's, what's a company that advertises on YouTube a bunch.

[Linus Sebastian]

Funny.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Thanks for that. Sure. Let's go with honey. You know, I'm getting this, this long read about, you know, honey or whatever. I have been, I've been interrupted. But on the flip side, YouTube has delivered the content that that creator uploaded in its entirety to you with no interruptions. How is it, how is it their problem or even their role to decide what to serve you and what not to serve you?

[Linus Sebastian]

I think an interruption in the perspective of YouTube is them interrupting the video that you are watching by inserting an ad. They're not doing that.

[Luke Lafreniere]

They're not. Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

The video that you are watching is just becoming an ad. It's uninterrupted, very easily. Skippable.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yep.

[Linus Sebastian]

So I don't think the interruption thing, I think a lot of it Depends on like where are you placing the perspective in this conversation? Yeah, I mean floatplane isn't ad free then because you know, wan show has sponsors and product placements. Kind of get that dough for me.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, exactly. Just like, I mean I could tell you all about true spec cables on lttstore.com that's on full play now. They're super flexible. They support, you know, very high power and data rates and are designed to be durable and UV resistant. If you like using them in your car, for instance, true spec cables lttstore.com right. Like should, should YouTube cut that out? If somebody pays for premium on YouTube, should they not see that? And this is actually a really good question from Sydney, broke it over in floatplane chat. If the entire video is a sponsored video, should YouTube not serve it then to premium viewers? What is it? What exactly is it that they're asking for? Like what should Google do?

[Linus Sebastian]

You know, this is interesting. I don't know if we say anywhere that full plan is ad free. Actually.

[Luke Lafreniere]

No, we don't.

[Linus Sebastian]

It doesn't tend to have ads. Like there's usually a float plane cut. Not usually. It's always.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I think we try.

[Linus Sebastian]

There's a full plane cut that doesn't have the sponsor spot in it to the point where some people have actually complained because they think the more creative ones they actually want to see it. Which is kind of funny. But I'm looking through and you know, I might be wrong. Someone might have it somewhere.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Well, we leave it up to the creator.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, because the platform wouldn't say it. Yeah, because we leave it up to the creator like you said. But then I don't think the Linus Tech Tips plans actually say, hey, there's no ads even though we, we do cut them out.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Well, we've tended towards a promise less, deliver more approach because we ran into trouble in the earlier days. Sometimes when we would promise more and then we. Someone would make a mistake or it would not be viable for some reason or another or we would. The business reality would change and we'd have to backtrack and it's a lot easier for us to just under promise and over deliver as best we can versus like promising the world and then it up Sometimes. Yeah, it's.

[Linus Sebastian]

Unless it's full sponsored videos like AMD upgrades. Yeah, that might be why we just don't use the verbiage.

[Luke Lafreniere]

This is really interesting just seeing. Now obviously there's a bit of a sampling bias here because this is coming from people who subscribe on floatplane which is like a very support the creators platform. Like you. You get extras. Well, actually, we've got some really good extras this week, so we'll talk about that a little bit later. But you get extras. But other than that, it's just like throwing coffee money at us to help us support the team and, and build the platform. But, but seeing the conversation in here, like, man, this, this blows. This is a dumb lawsuit. This. Are they trying to, you know, destroy creators? It's like, way to go. This is dumb. YouTube doesn't create sponsor spots. This is basically just saying, you know, screw the creators. But I don't know, like, it's. It's really interesting seeing the, the hostility toward this, this lawsuit when, I mean, you must remember this Luke from back in the garage days, how, how angry people in the community would be that we had the audacity to try to make a living at this.

[Linus Sebastian]

Literally any form of advertisement whatsoever, or the video being monetized at all.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

And if YouTube monetization was on because you used to be able to just turn it off and there would actually be no ads, which was psychotic, that that was possible on the platform. I just want to say that was crazy. I don't know how they ever thought that was gonna work, but whatever. Sounds good. Thanks, Google. Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

But yeah, Mr. Assister makes a really good point. Like, as much as I am obviously coming at this from a pro creator standpoint, I've got three children. Oh, he's not there to ding me.

[Dan]

Whatever.

[Luke Lafreniere]

He said it. He said, oh, whoops, I pressed a button. Good lord, what am I doing? So, yeah, I'm coming at it from a pro creator like perspective, but I actually agree with Mr. Assister here. This feels like when cell phone companies advertise unlimited data, it's like, yeah, it's not actually unlimited and everyone understands what they mean by that. And there's an argument to be made that it's unlimited, but like, no one forced them to say that. Nobody forced YouTube to say no interruptions. They could have just, they could have just said it in a. Cuz by the time YouTube Premium existed, so did in video sponsor reads. So it's not like this was some new thing that came about after the fact.

[Linus Sebastian]

This is a perspective conversation. And I understand the argument you're making, but from their perspective, there is no interruption.

[Luke Lafreniere]

No, I get it. I see both sides 100%.

[Linus Sebastian]

But I don't think the unlimited data thing is. To me, the unlimited data thing feels more egregious. Well, I understand the comparison.

[Luke Lafreniere]

You're making in a lot of cases it's unlimited. It's just at a, it throttles to such a speed that effectively you could figure out how much data it is because it would be the maximum data rate over the amount of time.

[Linus Sebastian]

They just actually don't interrupt videos. Like actually they don't. It's not that it, like it's not that they don't interrupt 80 videos a week and then they'll start interrupting them a little bit. Like no, they just actually never interrupt videos.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I get it.

[Linus Sebastian]

The interruption is coming from the UGC on their platform.

[Luke Lafreniere]

But they don't say, they don't say we won't interrupt the video. They say no interruptions. Which is a, is a broader statement than they had to make. So he, he's right that they didn't have to make such a broad sweeping statement. They could have said no YouTube ads and that would have been true. So I, I totally, I totally, I can both sides. This one pretty, pretty comfortably. I could sit and argue with myself about this for the next 10 minutes. Yeah, pretty easily. To be clear, I don't think this lawsuit's going anywhere. Like I don't think you're going to be able to, to, to make this argument in court that YouTube is somehow liable for the user generated content that they are to your point, not interrupting. Right?

[Linus Sebastian]

Like, yeah, like Google isn't so archangel of death. Hell of a name in Full plane chat said no interruptions added to the creator's videos. Yeah, they could add some like they could make it a longer qualifying sentence.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

To me I personally, I think, you know, I don't think anyone actually thinks Red Bull gives you wings.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I mean that was a problem though.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, but like maybe we don't need to worry about that.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Get hurt or something. Hold on, what's the actual history? Because I don't know how much of that is just like urban legend. Gives you wings lawsuit. Here we go. Oh wow. AI overview. But hear me out. In 2014, Red Bull agreed to pay $13 million to settle a class action false advertising lawsuit filed by consumer Benjamin Carruthers in 2013. The suit claimed the slogan Red Bull gives you wings and the drinks marketing misled customers about the beverage's energy and performance benefits compared to standard caffeine sources. So like.

[Linus Sebastian]

That's insane.

[Luke Lafreniere]

They didn't admit any, admit any fault. And this is one of those cases where yeah, the corporation should, even if they settle, they should not have to admit any fault. But if Red Bull can get in trouble for Red Bull gives You wings then I think YouTube might be, maybe could be in more trouble than I thought here.

[Linus Sebastian]

Maybe. Well, I think the safest thing is to just never say anything.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Well, I think the safest thing is for YouTube to say YouTube Premium gives you wings. And then anyone stupid enough to believe it can go jump off a building. It solves itself really. If you think about it.

[Linus Sebastian]

I do think they could, you know, I think they could have more clarifying language. I just, I also worry about like, okay, is every advertisement going to be a. I don't have a bleep button here, but a legal document at this point? Like,

[Luke Lafreniere]

I mean, yeah, I don't think anyone wants that. Like, that's the thing that I think people gotta ask themselves, like, do you want that? Like there's a, there's a, there's a balancing act here. We don't want misleading advertising, but we also don't want to read a 30 page legal document just to understand what a product is. There's gotta be, there's gotta be something in between. We gotta make this happen. All right, why don't we jump into. Oh yes. Dan. He moved the mic toward himself, so he's preparing to say something. Dan, speak.

[Linus Sebastian]

Okay, that's a good point from floatplane chat. Why am I resisting this? And I think the Red Bull gives you wings thing is really stupid. But I also think that the Pepsi jet is legendary.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I don't know. Feel free to unravel that one for us. Is it.

[Linus Sebastian]

I feel like it is different because in the Pepsi jet thing they, they like, they gave it a point amount that you would need to get to.

[Luke Lafreniere]

They were very specific and it was

[Linus Sebastian]

like in the TV commercial specific.

[Luke Lafreniere]

It was in there.

[Linus Sebastian]

I think it's different.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Really.

[Linus Sebastian]

I think it's. I think so.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I mean YouTube, you. Pepsi promised a jet and YouTube promised no interruptions.

[Linus Sebastian]

No interruptions.

[Luke Lafreniere]

No interruptions. I could you. I think we really could both sides. This one for like the rest of the show.

[Linus Sebastian]

Maybe, maybe, maybe I'll just shut up and we'll move on.

[Luke Lafreniere]

All right. Why don't we have another just kind of free flowing conversation topic? This came up in writers meeting actually last week and I was like, yeah, I don't know if it's a video essay for the main channel, but what I really think it is is a really interesting conversation on WAN show. Elijah brought this up. There was a post on the subreddit and I'm relying on the writers to bring it to me. I think I'm actually, I'm actually one month sober from even looking at our subreddit at this point and quite frankly I'm happier for it. This topic comes courtesy of user Zen553 saying we should review more mid range tech. It sparked some conversation both in the comments as well as here internally asking like what exactly is mid range? And we saw people debating things like whether the $200 TV that we just did a video on is mid range or entry level. On a recent short circuit, Elijah referred to the Nothing4A as Nothing's budget slash entry level phone. And some people got quite upset in the comments saying that's not budget, that's mid range. So I guess the question here is like, you know what, what does the community want? Or like what is our team's understanding of mid range? And I think this answer is going to really vary depending on the product category. Like a perfect example of a product category that I no longer like. I'll admit to you as somebody who does this for a living, for my profession for like 15 plus years now, total going back to when I was at ncix. Something I don't understand right now is how to classify GPUs. What the is a mid range GPU anymore? Cause I can tell you how I used to do it, right? Like back when I was at ncix, entry level was the like the actual like garbage total waste of money. Like GT660,610 literally is worse than just upgrading your motherboard to something with better onboard graphics. Why are you even buying this? That was entry level. It was like I need a secondary display output that was entry level. And that made its way up to like probably about $100. Nowadays you can't buy sh t for under a hundred dollars. So what are what? Even so entry level doesn't exist. And you know what, that even started to happen throughout my time at ncix, where the entry level went from being something that even made any sense to buy to being something that was just manufactured e waste. Then your mid range would have been like your hundred dollars to I would say like $200. Because as soon as you went beyond that you got into like no, this is a serious discreet GPU for like serious gamers. It wasn't a given that everybody put a graphics card in their system. If you weren't gaming, you didn't put a GPU in your system. There was no purpose for it in general use software. Not everybody was a content creator and using the Adobe suite. Like I feel like I'm very old man yelling at clouds right now, but it really was a totally different environment. And so by the time you got up to, you know, I'm buying something like a GTX 460 or something like that, I'm spending 220, 250, $300, like that was starting. That was getting into like mid to high, mid to high end, you know. And then by the time you got up to like a 70 class card, that was high end. But here's the kicker. That 70 class card was like 350, $400, right? And that was high end. And then anything above that, you had like, almost like you would have in like your DDR rankings where you've got your Alphabet and then you got S tier. So you had like your enthusiast tier where basically everyone in, in putting it in that category, everyone's acknowledging that nobody needs this, that this is not necessary. This is like we know we're spending twice as much to get 10% better performance or, you know, whatever the numbers work out to. You're buying an Extreme Edition, you're buying an 8800 Ultra. Nobody needs this. This is an enthusiast here. You just want to spend the money because you want the biggest edick. That's fine and that's totally valid. But let's all be honest with each other about what it is nowadays. 1000 Canadian dollars, right? Because I'm talking CAD. Back then, 1000 Canadian dollars buys you what in terms of like the, like the class, like the numbers attached to the back of the gpu. I would have called like a mid range GPU back then. Okay, maybe not quite, but like mid high, you know, somewhere in that range, like 1,000 Canadian dollars barely gets to like a 5070 now. And so I have no idea.

[Linus Sebastian]

Graphics cards. For graphics cards, ram a lot of modern compute. To me it feels like there maybe isn't an answer.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, 5070 is about 650 US dollars, so times 1.4. So that's 4 to. So so around 900 Canadian dollars.

[Linus Sebastian]

I think mid range is now used.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I don't think you can say that though. That's such a hack. That's a cheat because people are still buying something. People are still buying brand new across the entire range of Nvidia's products. So there has to be an entry level. But it seems like the answer is just no, there just isn't. Nvidia stopped making gt. They stopped making anything that wasn't GT like they. It used to be that GT and GTX denoted like gaming cards. Now I don't think they have a product that isn't rtx. That, that isn't, that isn't gaming. Like their, their product line starts for the 5060 at like US$300, is it not? Actually, I think it's a little more than that. What's a 50, 68 gig? Yeah, it's higher. 50, 60. Oh no, these are TI's. Hold on. 50, 68 gig. Got a double check. I can't find any non TI's right now. What's going on here? 5068 gig? Yeah, well, it's because the TI's are the same price. So yeah, their product line starts at the cost of a secondhand PlayStation 5, which is freaking insane. Like there's no other way to describe that. And people are like, Linus is just discovering inflation, but it's not that. Right? Like you can look, you can look at the die sizes and look at what those die sizes are available for in other product categories like an Intel K series gaming CPU or whatever still costs the same in dollars today pretty much as it did back when I was working@ncix 15 years ago. So no, this is not just that. Obviously it plays a role. Absolutely. And the Memory Ramageddon prices price crisis that's going on right now, that's obviously a factor as well. But I'm just, I'm looking at this going, I don't understand how to classify this because if I looked you in the eye right now and I said, yeah, I'm building a system with an entry level GPU, a 50, 60 TI8 gig for US$370, you'd be like, what the. You're out of touch. But I'm not out of touch. It's the children who are wrong. Nvidia is the one who's out of touch. I don't make the rules. That's their entry level product.

[Linus Sebastian]

Shareholders who are wrong.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Does entry level mean an amount to spend? Because I think that aligns with what you said where you're like, okay, second hand is entry level or it's mid range. Right. Or is it, or is it based on what the price bands are of products you can actually buy?

[Linus Sebastian]

I know it's like a meme on the show that I'm cheap, boy. But like I was talking to some people lately and looking into some of my own stuff for buying computer hardware and like, my God, man, it's a wasteland. I was trying to look into some decently high end stuff because I want to start running some pretty good hardware at home for running local LLMs and in Canada, it just doesn't exist. So that's cool. Like the used market is just not a thing you can go on eBay, ca. You can say, I want it to come from Canada. You can do the search term and it will say, well, you can get it from the States or China. Good luck. It literally shows no results for a bunch of the stuff I was looking up in Canada. Very disappointing. And when looking at other people wanting to build user systems and like, if I want to build this Steam machine that I'm talking about, I'm not getting new stuff, man. Like, I was looking at the stuff that I could find on Facebook, Marketplace or whatever else compared to retail prices. And I mean, it's terrible. There's a reason why Jackhead wars is not very interesting right now. I agree with not making scrap art wars this year. It's just terrible out there. It's still better on the used market than it is from retail, especially if you're cool with it. And you probably should be because it's actually probably fine going back to like DDR4 platforms and accepting some stuff that would probably feel weird if you're used to building computers over the course of the last 10 minus two or three years.

[Luke Lafreniere]

But yeah, this is wild.

[Linus Sebastian]

Go back again, deal with some stuff. Some of the old Zen platforms that were DDR4 are still smoking.

[Luke Lafreniere]

We actually Labs is working on an article that they sent me the first draft of and I wrote up a script on the. On the plane on my last trip. I've just got to tweak it and then we're going to probably record it on Monday when I'm back in office. But it's like a retrospective looking back on the goat, the 1080 and 1080 ti, and talking about now that driver support has been dropped, it's no longer getting new feature drivers, now that there are games that exist that literally will not launch on these cards because they don't support ray tracing and the games require ray tracing. How viable are these cards still in 2026? And I was actually. I was like kind of blown away by the answer. It turns out they're actually still pretty viable. It was. It was a pretty cool little exploration.

[Linus Sebastian]

I've been saying forever now that my. My buddy's son was playing arc raiders on a 1080, not even TI. And he like actually was. And it was actually really good.

[Luke Lafreniere]

And. And they're cheap and they're. They're okay.

[Linus Sebastian]

They are.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Don't bite on the first ebay deal you see, because there's a Lot of people out there going on what I got. But there's a lot of people too that are more realistic. I found on Facebook Marketplace deals, there were deals to be had like 1080s for under 100 USD. 1080. TI is under 150 USD, like 120, 130.

[Linus Sebastian]

I was, when I was perusing stuff pretty. That article being worked on, I was finding 1080s at like the 80 Canadian range.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

When you were like kind of lucky.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yep.

[Linus Sebastian]

You know, not all of them, they're around 100, but you can find them down to the 80 range. And I didn't spend as much time looking for the TI's. But yeah, like the TI has 11 or 11 and a half gigs of. No. Yeah, 11 of VRAM. Like it's, it's pretty wicked cards.

[Luke Lafreniere]

It's relatively slow by modern standards. So you gotta understand that VRAM is not the be all and end all, but it's, it's a viable gaming card for literally tens and tens of thousands of games on Steam. You don't have to play very likely

[Linus Sebastian]

a lot of, if not all of the games that you're playing.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yes. There, that, that's key. Especially if you're coming from, you know, if you're, if you're upgrading from something older. Right. Although I don't know if too many people are upgrading to a 10 series at this point. It's been 10 years. I wrote a really fun intro for that video. It was like. Oh, wait, did you read it?

[Linus Sebastian]

No, I'm just sure I had a conversation. Yeah. Let's not get into it, but I am not surprised. Yeah, we can talk about it more later.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, okay. Whatever. The point is, I, I wrote up. It was like a thing where like talking about the goat in GPUs is a lot like talking about the goat in women's tennis. Like, there's, there's room for outlier opinions, but there's no way that the 1080 sisters and the Williams sisters are not in the conversation. And it just kind of, it kind of builds on that and there's actually like some fun parallels in that. You know, the one of them came first and blazed the trail that the other one, you know, surpassed anyone's expectations for what could be done. Like the older sister, you know, set a bar for greatness that only the younger sister could surpass. Like, I don't know, it's. It's kind of, it's kind of fun.

[Linus Sebastian]

Honestly. I went to Steam stats. Most played top 100 games by current players. And I feel like the 1080 would do totally fine in the vast majority of this.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, what are we looking at here? Okay, we got PAL World CS2, Dota 2. Are you kidding me? Taskbar here. Some idle game. Pubg. It'll play pubg. No problem. Right? Like GTA 5 is literally from that era. Like what are. Yeah, what are we even. What are we even talking about here? I mean, I don't know. Football Club 26 might have some tech that would be weird or something that might be demanding.

[Linus Sebastian]

Probably fine.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I still feel like its rating is also 49% with 91,000 reviews. So maybe just save your spare yourself the frustration. Destiny 2 is pretty demanding, but should run like overall I think it's not like you're not going to be able to play Mecha Chameleon. Right?

[Linus Sebastian]

Like apparently a GTX 1080 gets 64 FPS at 1080p ultra in EA Sports FC26.

[Dan]

There you go.

[Luke Lafreniere]

There you go.

[Linus Sebastian]

What a crazy card, man. It just doesn't care. It just goes forever. They're amazing.

[Dan]

There's.

[Linus Sebastian]

There's this clip and we, we link. I think it's a video cards article or something like that in the. In the labs article that links to. I think that article then links to a video that's from Computex from this year where someone hands Jensen. I think it's a 1080 ti. And you can see in his face that like I think he actually really cared about like that generation of cards because then he talks about like when he receives it he's like, oh, this was a good one. And you can tell like there's probably a little bit of hamming up. There's 10 trillion cameras around or whatever. But you can tell he was actually kind of like really reminiscing on it.

[Luke Lafreniere]

And it's man, unfortunately that's all we can do is reminisce about it.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, I do miss the pre RTX era. But yeah, seriously, scrolling through this top 100 games by current players, you're going to be fine with most of this. There's a couple standouts where I'm like, oh yeah, that might be kind of rough. I remember running tarov on a 1080. Yeah, I remember it kind of sucked. And I remember I was happy when I moved on. Tarkov is number 79 on this list.

[Dan]

Nice.

[Linus Sebastian]

But man, oh man. Civ 5 is there. That's so funny. Is there any other civilization? Six is there. Okay, five and six are both there. Seven is not.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yikes. Oh, don't say yikes.

[Linus Sebastian]

Both of Your older games being in the top 100 is sick. Your newest game not is. That's unfortunate.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I got a question that I've been holding on to for a little bit here from Ethan Immortal and this is going to break your brain. Ethan asks, what is the modern equivalent to something like just a Matrox? I just need a display card. Well, it's funny you should ask because the modern equivalent is just the equivalent. We have not moved on to this day from the GeForce 210 which no longer carries the GT modifier apparently. I think it used to. Although I could be wrong. It's been a while. This is a card that has I, you, not PCIe 2.0 and 1 gigabyte of DDR3 all for the low low price of 45 US dollarinos. What? The actual Nvidia just straight up stopped making entry level GPUs. Which honestly kind of makes sense because they were stupid and onboard graphics is so much better than them already. But also just what? Like when did the. When did the GeForce 210 come out? Release date. Hold on, I'm looking it up. I'm looking it up. Get your loud keyboard out of here. 2009. 2009.

[Linus Sebastian]

So are you saying they're making new ones still?

[Luke Lafreniere]

As far as I can tell, that was an in stock item, brand new. So there ain't no way that it's leftover inventory from 17 years ago. So that answers your question.

[Linus Sebastian]

Drivers for it?

[Luke Lafreniere]

I mean there must be. It's a brand new card. You can still buy. 2009. That's insane. You know what's really crazy about that, linus? Entry level GPUs. Remember we've done that video twice where we basically just call out don't buy entry level GPUs. They're a waste of money. So here's one of the times, okay, I don't even know what card we were talking about. Cheap does not mean good value. Okay? This was a 10:30. Okay? So we called out that. There was one we did way, way earlier that like what does this have to do. Oh, sponsored search man, search on frickin YouTube. What is even the point of using it at all? I swear I can't find like anything on YouTube anymore. Okay, I'm gonna have to try and find this. And then

[Linus Sebastian]

part of it. This is another interesting conversation at Open Sauce with different creators and stuff, but part of it's just modern packaging. I'm gonna complain about it. We have to do it. So it is what it is, but title and thumbnail, thumbnail. Needing to be the way that they kind of need to be makes search atrocious. But it's so heavily promoted. The impact I mean, creators have been talking about. Okay, I understand you don't want clickbait thumbnails, but if I put up a non clickbait thumbnail, I get freaking owned. And if I put up a clickbait thumbnail, or not even a clickbait thumbnail, if I put up an enticing thumbnail, then it actually works and you guys actually watch the videos. But it's like, way more real now, talking to creators here, even about like, oh, yeah, I put up a better thumbnail and my retention went up by 8%. And it's like, what? Like, just viewer behaviors are wild. And yeah, yeah, someone said, no, it's clickbait. I'm like, yeah, you can call it clickbait all you want. It's completely necessary and it's not going anywhere. That's the problem that I'm pointing out here.

[Luke Lafreniere]

But what's dumb about it is YouTube has so much metadata on these videos that there is no reason, and I'm about to prove it, that they couldn't release the right. That they couldn't give me the right result. What was the Linus tech tips video where he said, entry level GPUs are a waste of money? Boom. Here's one of them. If you're thinking of an older video, Linus and Luke ranted about it in this video. Oh, my God. It's another ad for Roundup. You've got to be kidding. Does the ad pause if you switch tabs? It does. That's. That's demonic.

[Linus Sebastian]

See, they don't do that with premium. Let's go.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Hold on. There's an older one. Low end video cards rant. Okay, so that was based on the R7 240. Your one from 10 years ago called out the GT210, which, oh, my God, was cheaper then than it is today.

[Linus Sebastian]

Is it time for another one? Yeah. Do you have to do another video? Do we need to make it like a fourth or whatever it is now?

[Luke Lafreniere]

No, this video is from 2016. Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

I mean, it's been a lot of years.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Bang on, I guess, in a decade. Oh, man.

[Dan]

Yeah. So inflation would have brought that up by 10 bucks. Crazy.

[Luke Lafreniere]

But let's see. Okay, so I search for low end video cards. Linus. On YouTube. Okay. And it literally finds the one. It brings up 50. 50. I guess that answers our question about what entry Level is according to YouTube. And then what is this? Okay, YouTube made me review this budget GPU. That's actually a pretty on topic one. Terrible news. Cloud gaming is good now. What are you talking about? People also watch. What is this?

[Linus Sebastian]

Can you do an experiment for me? Can you take the exact term phrase, whatever sentence you typed into Google?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Well, that's what I was trying into YouTube. Okay, so low end video cards was exactly what I searched for. Low end video cards. Linus, it couldn't bring up that video,

[Linus Sebastian]

what you put into Google search.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, sure.

[Linus Sebastian]

Copy the entire thing.

[Luke Lafreniere]

No, it's gone. Sorry. Yeah, I closed that tab already.

[Linus Sebastian]

History.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, no, you're gonna find all my stuff. Okay. I've apparently reused that tab.

[Linus Sebastian]

Okay.

[Luke Lafreniere]

All left arrow does not. Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. Control Shift T. People are saying that should bring a tab back if you. If you close the tab.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, but I didn't. I reused it. This is Red Bull gives you wings. Lawsuit. Sorry, guys, I. I computed wrong.

[Linus Sebastian]

Maybe. Don't worry about it. Yeah, I just. I've been wondering if. And I haven't actually tried it myself, but I've been wondering if YouTube has been moving more towards natural language search as they, you know, insert Gemini into everything.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, here's the original. Finally found it. Oh,

[Dan]

sorry.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Another ad came up. Low end video cards rant Radeon R7 240. Unboxing and review. And our thumbnail for this literally was a stupid product. No one buy it. And here we are all these years later. Do you think you can still buy an R7 240?

[Linus Sebastian]

I feel like that one.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Holy.

[Linus Sebastian]

Wow.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, okay, hold on, hold on, hold on though. This looks like this has got to be an old listing. These are just like old, old garbage. You got to be kidding me. I can buy a new one from Elmo Proing brand. That's not as bad as the Nvidia one. That's like, still available from actual authorized AIBs. I'm dead here. Can you imagine back then, back in 2016, anyone with a straight face trying to sell a GPU from 2006, like, trying to sell you like, like, like an X800 Pro or something.

[Linus Sebastian]

I was gonna say. What would that even be?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah. God, like, like 70. Yeah. Well, 2006. What would that even be? That would be like GeForce 6. When did the 6800 GT come out? I feel like that must have been around then. Oh, 2004. So that would be like a 77,000. That would be like a 7,000 series.

[Linus Sebastian]

But this is right I'm looking at like a timeline of Nvidia releases.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah. And then what would have been current in 2016, that would have been like 780 series.

[Dan]

And it would.

[Linus Sebastian]

And it would have been a low end card from back then too, which is crazy.

[Luke Lafreniere]

No, that would have been later. That would have been like 980 GPU. Hold on, let me double check. No, dude, that was the 1080. So that would have been like someone trying to sell you a 6800 GT when the 1080 existed for 499. That's crazy. And now that I think about it, the 10 series also happened to be the last generation to get a decent entry level GPU. The 1030 in the right RAM configuration was actually not crap. The 10. The 10 is just the goat. It's just the goat. You look at it, you look at the 10 series compared to what came 10 years before it, and you look at it compared to what came 10 years after it, and the difference is just staggering in both cases, like how well it kept up with what came 10 years later and how far ahead it was of what was 10 years before.

[Linus Sebastian]

I think 8800 GTX technically launched in 2006. I think it was November.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, did it? All right, all right, I'll allow it, I'll allow it.

[Linus Sebastian]

But I mean, for most of that year it would have been 7000 series.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Crazy.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, yeah. November 8th, 2006. How much do you think it was?

[Luke Lafreniere]

The 8800? Which one?

[Linus Sebastian]

GTX.

[Luke Lafreniere]

The GTX. Hold on, I might actually remember this. I think it was. I think it was 699, if I recall correctly.

[Linus Sebastian]

600 bucks is what I'm seeing.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Is it 599? But probably the Ultra was 999 though.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Also that it was 600 US, so you might be remembering Canadian prices.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I probably just forget. I would have been thinking in US prices back then as well, because all of our pricing at NCIX was just derived from US pricing anyway. Because we were buying in US dollars but then selling Canadian dollars. So we constantly had to be like hedging for exchange and stuff. It was the whole thing, the 8800 GT though, that was goaded for value. That thing was incredible. It was almost the performance of an 8800 GTX. But it was like 350 or something like that when it first came out. Or like 299 or something. It was crazy. It's crazy. Like if you talk to people who have been in Nvidia long enough, they'll like still remember the trauma of accidentally releasing a product for like $150 less than what they should have been charging for it. Because you don't actually like win because the handful of people that were able to get their hands on them, like they're happy. But everyone else who's getting it scalped or just who can't get one is just mad at you. Like, it's actually not good to price something too low. It can end up causing more backlash than it causes goodwill with customers, which is a really unintuitive thing that I think consumers, if they just focus on sort of their own feelings and forget that there's like a lot of other customers out there and not all of them are going to be able to get one at that price, can easily forget. Like, I don't envy, you know, my, my girl Taylor Swift, right? She, she has her concert ticket prices. If she goes too low, nobody can get one. Everyone's mad. Scalpers rejoice. If she goes too high, she's a money grub, money grubbing. And how dare she price it so high. Like nailing the exact right price. And then back to our what's entry level? What's mid range? Part of that conversation we haven't even gotten into yet is that it's all relative. It's all relative to your income. Which by the way, whether you have an entry level or a high end income is super relative to where you live and your cost of living. And so everyone's got their completely different perspective on it. So no matter where you price something, someone's going to be mad because you're pricing it like a premium offering. And someone else is going to be mad because if you just charged a little more for it, then I wouldn't have to stand next to all the riff raff in line at Disney or, you know, well, like whatever their perspective is. Right?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, man, I would be, that would

[Luke Lafreniere]

be a hell of a move for the Disney theme parks to have like one day a month where the ticket is like $2,000 and they're just like, yeah, whatever. You, the, the park is practically empty. You basically walk onto every ride. I bet people would pay it. You know they would.

[Linus Sebastian]

I promise you they would. Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh man.

[Linus Sebastian]

Back to the 8800 though. It's one of my favorite generations of graphics cards. Yeah, I just looked up the Ultra because I remember, I like, I think it was just so obviously never going to happen that I just like almost erased this from my memory because I remember being like when I was shopping for cars at that time, like I was not gonna be able to afford an ultra. So I think I just kind of forgot about it. The shroud version, which might have been all of them. I don't think so. But the shroud version that had like the bump, that's the ultra for the fan. Yeah. Was that every ultra? Was every ultra like that?

[Luke Lafreniere]

I believe so because that was one of the early examples of Nvidia having almost like a founders or reference cooler.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

And their AIBs were not allowed to really modify it. So all you really got was like kind of stickers on this. They. They all looked like this with.

[Linus Sebastian]

The first time I saw one of these in person was when I started working with. With you.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Linus Sebastian]

And I just remember being like, damn, she was.

[Luke Lafreniere]

She was a sick girl.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

By the standards then. Like extending.

[Linus Sebastian]

It's like small.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Extending beyond the top of the PCIe slot bracket thing was crazy at the time. Two power connectors, like for contrast. Here's what. The 8800 GTX, which was basically the same damn thing, just not clocked as high. Here's what the GTX looked like, which was pretty cool, but it didn't have.

[Linus Sebastian]

This was like, that's a big cart,

[Luke Lafreniere]

but it didn't have that big full coverage shroud on it. What a time to be alive. Anyway, cool. That was a cool, fun conversation. We still don't have an answer as to what exactly the crap mid range tech is.

[Linus Sebastian]

I don't think it exists right now. I think it's a. A lie.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Well, it does exist.

[Linus Sebastian]

I think it's completely contextual based on whether you're willing to buy used stuff where you live right now. Because there's actually surprisingly different pricing geographically right now.

[Luke Lafreniere]

And the product category, mid range TVs 100% exist.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Entry level TVs that are worth buying, 100% exist. But not every category has a functioning entry level or mid range. And so I don't know what us covering more mid range tech necessarily even looks like it's good for.

[Linus Sebastian]

It also doesn't work. We've talked about this a bunch.

[Luke Lafreniere]

It can.

[Linus Sebastian]

It doesn't.

[Luke Lafreniere]

It can.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yes.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So one formula that I've been bugging the writing team for us to like get on is I want to make a habit of going to Costco like once every quarter. And if we don't have a video on a tech item that's in Costco, we basically consider that a failure. Because if it's mainstream enough that Costco Carries it. People need information about it. And if people need information about it and we're not providing it, then we suck. And that's sort of the mentality I want us to have about it.

[Linus Sebastian]

You know what? I'd watch Linus helping somebody buy a TV at Costco. You taking like some employee from lmg, that's like thinking of pro. Like, they want to buy a tv.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

And you just take them on a trip to Costco and then they can ask what different TVs. Oh, I think I like this one. You can tell them, like, why it's, you know, good or not.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, sure.

[Linus Sebastian]

I would. I would love.

[Luke Lafreniere]

You don't like that one. That one has Tizen. What's a Tize?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, sure. But seriously, it's the devil.

[Luke Lafreniere]

In all seriousness though, man, I hate that some of Samsung's TVs are so good because I do find myself recommending them sometimes, even though I know that you're gonna have to deal with that. But, like, at the end of the day, image quality is king for me and that. So it might be hard for me to recommend something necessarily because my priorities are not the same as someone else's. But what I can do is demystify. Like, if they ask a question, I can explain, like, oh, yeah, it has that or it doesn't have that.

[Dan]

The.

[Luke Lafreniere]

The whole just like Linus, go shopping with people format has actually been really successful. And going in and reviewing the videos, like, I can see why it's really enjoyable. And I also just. I really enjoy teaching people. This gets us really well into the floatplane announcement, so we can get that out of the way. But we did a floatplane exclusive this week that is probably the most fun that I've had shooting one in quite a while. Oh, actually there's a couple banger floatplane exclusives this week. We have episode two of Pull the Trigger. If you get a tech question wrong. Catchy name, Sammy. Good job. But basically, it's like tech. Tech roulette. And you have to take a chance at soaking yourself if you. If the other person gets the answer. First it was Luke versus Nick Harris from the lab. And then the other one is episode two of LMG Turn. LMG learns life skills. So episode one, I think was Elijah learning to ride a bike. And episode two is Colton and Nicole, who I did not know did not know how to swim. But I give them a swimming lesson and it was. It was actually really fun. It's been. It's been fun reading through the comments just because, like, this reminds me of how Linus can be awesome at teaching stuff to people. We don't get to see him do this very often, but we can clearly see how professional he is while doing this. That's literally my job is to teach people about tech. I think you just. It's one of those funny things where it's like, if you saw your school teacher teaching someone piano, you might go, wow, you're a really good piano teacher. But, like, teaching anything follows very, very similar principles and it's a really similar process. So, like, when you're teaching a physical skill, it's just demo, describe, do, correct, and you just, you just repeat that cycle. And as long as you understand how to do it pretty well and you have an analytical eye, it's. It's actually okay, maybe this is, this is me, then maybe not everyone feels this way, but it's actually really fun. It's really rewarding and it's. It tickles exactly the same part of my brain as like, Luke, you described the joy of like, troubleshooting a tech problem or like, like, like debugging something and like, like that aha moment of, like, getting it working. It's exactly the same thing. It's the aha moment of getting someone to process that they need to be blowing bubbles and kicking at the same time, otherwise they are going to sink and they are going to die. And seeing that now, that will no longer be the case and they might have a chance of not unaliving themselves if they, you know, fall into water at some point. Like, it's. It's exciting, it's fun, and I had a lot of. I had a lot of fun with it and it's just one of those things that is funny for me too, because I talked about it a lot more in the early days of the channel, but I often forget that a lot of people watching today were not born when we started this channel. I literally am a very professional swimming lessons teacher because I literally did it for a job. Like, that was my first job was to teach swimming lessons. I'm a professionally trained water safety instructor. So, yeah, it's not that crazy for me, me to be able to teach people to swim. But yeah, I don't know. It's fun, though.

[Dan]

It's fun.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I had a really good time. But yeah, Happy Merlin says. I really like this video, especially that this time the instructor actually had a plan how to instruct them and seemed competent doing it. It's like, yeah, I have like, like many. I have like hundreds of hours under My belt teaching swimming lessons. I know how to do it. I was just, I was a little rusty but actually because I had planned to teach my kids and then I never got around to it, I ended up hiring some someone I went and I got my hands on like an old WSI like workbook. It wasn't the same one. It was like the American one and I had taught the Canadian one. But the, the principles are pretty much the same. So I was able to follow it along and, and put together a nice little program for Colton and Nicole. It was good though. And like Sammy did a great job of filming. We've got like this underwater footage and everything. It's a, it's a fun little exclusive. What else am I supposed to say about float plane? Blah blah blah. Open link. First one being tech related. Blah. Show the thumbnail. Sammy's got a bunch of instructions in here. I don't follow the instructions, but whatever. And we have some mouth watering early access. Sell the video, Linus. Sell the video. What does he mean? Oh, oh, this is a fun one. This was actually a Media Team Labs collaboration. So we tested a bunch of the top gaming distros to determine, hey, is there a gaming advantage for one over the others? And it was, it actually has a companion article over on the LTT Labs website where they get into some of the more daily drivery like setupy details in addition to just the performance benchmark. So it's a really nice little one, two content piece that I think you guys are really going to enjoy. So that's live on floatplane. Now you guys can get wet with us at lmg, gg, fpwen. Alrighty then, Sammy. Thank you. Oh, I get it. Because both of the exclusives were water themed. All right, sure, fine. I'll allow it. All right, what are we supposed to be doing next?

[Dan]

Sponsors?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Sponsors? No, I think we should do a topic or two before we do sponsors again.

[Linus Sebastian]

Then why do you ask?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Wait, have we done any sponsors yet? Holy crap. Dan, you gotta, you gotta tell me earlier. We've been, we've been. We've been live for two and a half hours. The show is brought to you by Vessi. Just because it's summer doesn't mean you don't want to be caught in a surprise storm with soggy socks. Vessi. Ah, Vessi. Storm bursts are a great summer adventure companion. And as always, Vessi claims they're 100% waterproof like the rest of their shoes since they come in a variety of colors and they have low and high top Options, you're gonna be able to find a perfect pair that goes great with your wardrobe. Something we don't talk about often when it comes to Vessi shoes is they're actually vegan. Every pair of shoes is made with eco conscious materials that are animal friendly. And every pair of Storm bursts is built to handle all environments, whether you're traveling in a new city or spending some time away in nature. Vessi offers a year warranty on everything they sell as well as a great 30 day return policy if you're not happy with your purchase. And all orders over $110 come with free shipping in North America. A little rain shouldn't be the reason you stay home. Get 15% off your first pair of Vessi's at vessi.com wanshow the show is also brought to you by Optimum Manager Nexus. It's a full stack observability platform that gives you and your IT team a single clear view of your entire infrastructure. There's no need to build everything up from the beginning either. It plugs right into the Manage Engine ecosystem with the tools your team already uses. If your team prefers to work from the cloud, you're set. But even if you prefer on site servers or a hybrid approach, OpManager meets you where you are. It's built to be deployed quickly and uses customizable dashboards so each member of your team gets the reports and information they need the most. Plus, with a global network of localized data centers, everything stays highly available because they know reliability is extremely important. It's backed with strong data encryption, adhering to industry and regional compliance rules, so your data stays protected and. Well, I wasn't really going anywhere with that sentence, so. Opmanager Nexus, Stop guessing and start knowing. With full stack visibility, we'll have a link for you in the video description. You meditating over there?

[Linus Sebastian]

No. So I was just. Well, I was thinking. I don't know.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, so then yes, that's kind of the same thing.

[Dan]

Don't hurt yourself. Back to more topics.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Strain of. Strain of brain. Brain cell.

[Dan]

Strain of thought.

[Linus Sebastian]

I used the Brain cell for too long.

[Dan]

Mom says it's my turn.

[Linus Sebastian]

No, I used it out. It's burnt up topics, I guess.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Sure, yeah, why not?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, let's do this one. 75% of all PlayStation 3 games are now playable on PC as RPCS3 nears full preservation. The open source PS3 emulator RPCS3, it's

[Luke Lafreniere]

like designed to trip you up. Amazing.

[Linus Sebastian]

That one's tough. Just announced that 75% of the entire PlayStation 3 catalog. By the way, I read that I think like four times before I got there. Never saw the C. Anyways, makes sense that it's there PC, but whatever. Anyway, yeah, yeah, yeah. 20% of the entire catalog is now playable on PC. That's 2,681 of the 3,559 games it tracks marked playable, meaning they run start to finish with acceptable performance and no game breaking bugs, up from 70% in January. This is an aside that might be a nicer way for protondb to talk about things, because I'm at the point where I just assume gold means not worth my time. But anyways, moving forward, a few big exclusives like the Last of Us, God of War 3 and Metal Gear Solid 4 are still in the in game tier, which in game tier, which makes sense since those pushed the original hardware hardest.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, in game just means you can get past the menu, but you can't rely on it to be stable or not have any bugs.

[Linus Sebastian]

Okay, sure.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So they can get in game, but you can't game.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, yeah, you can't play all the way through for sure. Just fine. This comes right after Sony confirmed it's shutting down the PS3 and Vita stores by 2027, which turns RPCs3 into the DE facto preservation tool for a generation. Sony is actively sunsetting. The team also just re implemented a chunk of the PS3 system software in open source code, inching towards the goal of running games without needing Sony's firmware at all. Wow. Wow.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Our discussion question is a hot one. Every time a company pulls the plug on old hardware, it feels like it's the volunteer emulator scene that actually saves the games. Should preservation really be falling entirely on unpaid communities? No. Yep, not much of a discussion question, but certainly a good point for us to talk about. And our other discussion question is if emulation is the only thing keeping some of these games alive, is it still fair to call it a legal gray area? Yes, yes it is.

[Linus Sebastian]

Unfortunately.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Unfortunately, yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Also, this is. This is. Does this make complete sense? The argument that we're making because most PS3 games had physical releases.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Did I make an argument?

[Linus Sebastian]

Well, no. Every time a company pulls a plug on old hardware, the plug on the old hardware.

[Luke Lafreniere]

The thing about the old hardware, they do. But does Sony provide replacement parts for them?

[Linus Sebastian]

Okay, that's a different. Then there's not open source communities.

[Luke Lafreniere]

There's a finite amount of hardware that will and there's a finite lifespan of that hardware before sometime in the future when it will all be gone. There is, other than emulation and other than preservationists, no other way to use that aforementioned disk. And so I think, no, I don't think it's a disingenuous point to make because that's exactly what they're raising is when the plug gets pulled on the hardware and there's various stages of plug pulling. Like one of the plugs that gets pulled is we're not selling it anymore. Another plug that gets pulled is there's no longer any under warranty, then there's no replacement parts, then there's, and so on and so on and so on and so forth until some day there will not be a single PlayStation 3 that is left functioning.

[Linus Sebastian]

I just, I just don't know if it's the same argument. Like there's like, okay, when we're talking about, like, should it be entirely up to unpaid communities? So what are we expecting them to do? I guess is my question. So they made this console. Yeah, they didn't, they didn't stop it from working. I mean, they, they sold these games with physical copies, lots of them. I still suspect the majority of PS3 games were sold physical.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, definitely.

[Linus Sebastian]

Most people had switched over at that time. So there's an incredible amount of physical copies out there. There's 80 million PS3s out there. What is the company supposed to do when they start you. They are expected to create an emulation port for a completely separate system, also known as the, the, the computer. Does that make sense? Is that fair?

[Luke Lafreniere]

I think we've talked about this in the past and I think that you and I kind of both settled on. Well, if I have some way to buy it at a somewhat reasonable price and forever, then yeah, we, we consider the, the emulation a lot less necessary.

[Linus Sebastian]

Like if, oh, I'm not against the emulation.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Like if the PlayStation Store still, if you were still able to buy those games and run them on modern hardware, then I don't think there's any preservationist argument to be made. But in a lot of cases you can't.

[Linus Sebastian]

That's not, that's not what I'm arguing.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, okay, sorry, super clear.

[Linus Sebastian]

I'm not against the preservation here. My specific line is the. Yeah, should it be fully on unpaid communities? That's the line that I'm looking at is like, what are we, by saying that? What do we expect? What is the action we're looking for PlayStation to have taken here?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Well, that's what I'm, that's what I'm saying. The action that I think you and I have talked about in the past and that we agreed that they could take, and that would make all of this unnecessary, is if you could still buy these titles and still play them on modern hardware, because that would completely get around any kind of future where PlayStation 3 hardware is no longer viable or no longer available. But a lot of. In a lot of cases, that doesn't happen. It doesn't go down like that. And so in those cases, you know, I look at something like a Chrono Trigger for SNES and I go, okay, well, like, fuck you, Nintendo. You don't make this available to me in any other way. So, like, you're not. It's not like you're profiting if I go buy a secondhand SNES cartridge anyway. So what are we even talking about here? Actually, I don't know if Chrono Trigger is a great example. Is that available on other platforms? Chrono Trigger buy. Like, can you, can you buy it today for any other. Oh, no, it's on Steam. Okay, so bad example. But there, There are many titles that were never ported to future platforms. And if it was me today and I was like, I want to play Chrono Trigger, I would. I would buy it for 15 bucks. I would. I would think it is. No, I would think it's not great to. To pirate that for. For me. And everyone can make their own choice. I'm not passing a judgment. If you decide to download a ROM of Chrono Trigger and play it that way.

[Linus Sebastian]

We're talking about with different things.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Well, I'm. What I'm. The only thing I'm trying to answer is should it be falling entirely on unpaid communities? And I'm saying if the paid people, like the software engineers at Sony were making it so that you could play these games on the modern hardware, then it wouldn't be falling on unpaid communities. Sony would be doing it. But if they don't do that, then it is falling on unpaid communities, because otherwise nobody's doing it.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, yeah, I think we're. I think we're on. I think we're having different conversations.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, so what do you mean, then?

[Linus Sebastian]

So it's never questioning, like, if this isn't happening, then this happens. If this doesn't happen, or if this does happen, that this doesn't happen. Like, yeah, sure, it's the should. So that's why I keep going back to, like, what should Sony do in this case? So are we expecting them as a company to permanently emulate every single game that ever gets released on their, on any console they've ever had. Is that the action? I think the thing that I'm questioning is what is the action that we're asking from them? Because you're saying it should be available. So, okay, so Sony, not necessarily the individual studios, but Sony needs to emulate 3,559 games forward to every single console or PC and make it compatible until the end of time and then do that for PlayStation 1 and PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 and 4 and everything.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I mean, I think that a lot of people would also settle for maybe they can contribute. Yeah, I think a contribution would go a long way. Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Maybe there's some threshold where like if you sell a certain amount of consoles or something.

[Dan]

Sure.

[Linus Sebastian]

Or they could to contribute. Once you sunset that console, you're expected to contribute some amount of software development hours or something.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Or at the very least, at the very least they could just like screw off and not like make life miserable for the people who are doing it.

[Linus Sebastian]

Are they doing that?

[Luke Lafreniere]

They can be very litigious around certain things. Like the firmware for instance, is one of the ways that Sony fights emulation by going after anybody hosting firmware files which are copyrightable, even if there's other aspects of emulation that are considered to be a separate independent work and non infringing. So it's, it's, you know, in response to our other discussion question here, it's absolutely a legal gray area because you can download an emulator and it's not illegal to host an emulator download that. No one's going to be able to go after you for that. But as soon as you're hosting like the SC ph or whatever, like firmware files, then you're in real trouble. So tracking those down is just like a, it's like an endless maze of cross referencing Reddit posts to where there's an active download link for it because it all ultimately gets pulled down. And if it wasn't Sony doing it, then I don't know who it would be. I don't know. I think, I think there's given the financial incentive to like keep making these games available and how with all the tools that Sony has to build forward and backward compatibility, which they clearly, you know, have done so that. No, I actually don't think it's that unreasonable to ask them to continue to do that. I mean they have done it.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, I think there's actions that could make sense. I, I like the idea. It's, it's, it's interesting, interesting approaches. Yeah, I'M wondering like, like one thing I'm wondering is, okay, if the firmware is a problem. Like, all right, once they, once they get rid of the store. So, okay, they're, they're shutting down the PS3 store in 2027, the Vita too. So I think on the date that they ditch the store, if they open sourced the firmware, I mean, is that, is that an action that would like, work for people?

[Luke Lafreniere]

That'd be, that'd be a pretty bro move. I mean, I think there's a lot more documentation that would be extremely helpful so that it didn't all have to be reverse engineered.

[Linus Sebastian]

They would never. Guys, we're not talking about if they would do it. I'm talking, I feel like I'm not communicating this clearly. We're talking, should preservation be falling on the unpaid communities? Okay. Everyone's effectively being like, okay, no. So then it's like, all right, then in that case, what action do we

[Luke Lafreniere]

want them to take?

[Linus Sebastian]

And then I'm trying to figure out what thing, not what they would do, but what action do we want them to take? Maybe the firmware is too much. Okay, maybe they don't want to do that. It's trademarkable. It's a little bit too far. What other step is then going to work? I would accept them contributing to the open source code.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I'd accept Sony doing the work and continuing to commercialize it. And if they aren't going to do that, then I think that's where we get into some of the solutions you're talking about where they contribute to a preservationist society or they, or do do something. They, they, they, they. Even if it's cost prohibitive, right? Like, okay, here's a compromise that I could see someone like a Sony potentially agreeing to is they basically go, okay, well here's the cell architecture and you can port it to an FPGA if you really want to. By the way, that FPGA is going to be like an $8,000, you know, thing because cell architecture was ridiculous or whatever. You know, good luck doing anything with this. Because at least what that would do is it would create a future 20, 30 years from now when again, it comes down to when are all those PS3s going to die? When all of those are actually starting to die. Maybe it becomes viable by that point to do an affordable FPGA PS3.

[Linus Sebastian]

At least you're making it more reasonably possible.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Give us some point on the horizon that we could look toward and go, okay, there's our target. That's what we're sailing toward to ensure that this entire generation of gaming history isn't lost. But right now, they're doing nothing. They're actively working against those efforts. And quite frankly, I mean, I understand why. Because in a lot of cases, this is software that is still available and does still contribute commercially to the endeavors that Sony is undertaking. Like, I get that obviously they're going to be anti piracy, they make money selling software. But there's got to be. There's got to be an eye toward, okay, tens of years in the future. How do we make sure that the efforts today to block piracy don't prevent it from being preserved? Where's the middle ground?

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. Okay, a fun topic. Oh, PC gamer turns Steam games into car. You want to talk about something?

[Luke Lafreniere]

I knew you were going to love this. I picked this just for you. I didn't really care.

[Linus Sebastian]

Dude, it's so sick. I. I actually like kind of even just want to do this myself because it sounds incredible.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I knew it. I knew it.

[Linus Sebastian]

Even just having like, oh man, I wonder how absurd they would become. But if you could make like an E ink display that shows the art of the game. Because these are 128 gig SSDs, like, I don't. I don't want to have a trillion of them, but if I had like maybe five that were some of my more recent games and then I could update the art on it, that would be so sweet.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay. Luke, do you want to read the thing W. Calderini says? Tell us the topic.

[Dan]

Fair enough.

[Linus Sebastian]

I got too excited. My bad. Redditor Jabril Sama built a Steam game cartridge system by loading individual games onto used 2 1/2 inch SATA SSDs. Then 3D printing custom cartridge shells with COVID art so they look like oversized switch carts. It works by triggering a script that auto launches the game when it detects the SSD has been put into the dock. Or alternatively just drops you on the correct Steam page. So then you can click play. The whole thing runs on Linux using udev, using a UDEV rule to detect the drive and a systemd service to run the script. No, you don't care about any of that kind of stuff. But it's recreatable on Windows without the auto launch part. But I mean, you're probably switching to Linux anyway, so you can make it the coolest version. It's a novelty more than a practical setup. The notes say this doesn't seem that impractical to me. And the games are still digitally licensed, so it's not true. Preservation. Yeah, it's not preservation. It's just fun. But the timing struck a nerve. It's landing. Yeah, that's a good point. It's landing right as the PlayStation disc Death News has everyone talking about physical media again. And it scratches the itch of physically picking a game off the shelf. One of the reasons why I would want to do this is it would be fun to like, I don't know, once a quarter or something be like, you know what? These are the games I would, I would love to like, get off the backlog.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

And then you're intentful about it.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

I sit down on the computer. What do I want to play? Well, I've got these four or five in front of me.

[Dan]

Yep.

[Linus Sebastian]

Which one do I want to put in? I put the card in, it just starts the game and I'm going. There's not the, like Steam library fatigue that you run into. Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

This is the paralysis. You want to hear the best news. You want to hear the best part? 128 gig. Like old SATA SSDs can be had for like as little as 15 bucks.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Here's some old sandisks, you know, so you could, you could get your five games for 19 Canadian dollars each. So it'd be a grand total. Here we go. Of 115 Canadian dollars for all your game carts. If you wanted to build something like

[Linus Sebastian]

this, I think it's cooler to have the game on there. And then that keeps some, you know, some storage off your actual drives that are in your system. System and stuff like that. So it's like very likely worth it. But realistically, if you already have a big game drive, you don't have to have an SSD for each one of these. You just need the launch script. So you could have some really tiny storage. It could probably be like an SD

[Luke Lafreniere]

card effect, you know, you wouldn't like it as much that way.

[Linus Sebastian]

No, I want to do the ssd. That is sick. That is fantastic. I'm not even talking for me. I'm just talking to somebody's like, you know, I don't necessarily want to do that. Or maybe used SSDs are more expensive where I am.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I knew you were going to love this. I just, I saw this headline and I was like, I was looking into it. I'm just like, all right, I got, I got to put this on the wet and show. Doc. I'm going to bring this to Luke.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. Somebody said USB drives. Yeah. You could use like old USB Drives. I mean you could, it's just a little tiny auto launch script. You can put on like anything.

[Luke Lafreniere]

You could use an RFID chip. You just, you could just put a card on it. You could like boop a card in order to launch the game. Like you could do this with anything.

[Linus Sebastian]

But having the action, having it actually chunk in, it actually has the data on the drive. That's, it's cool. I like that a lot. Yeah, that's, that's, that's wicked cool. This paired with the, the operating systems that that dude at Whale Land did.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He had Windows and Linux operating systems on SSD cartridges for his like old school modded system is so cool.

[Linus Sebastian]

Didn't he make it look like like NES carts or something?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, no, I think it was for an NES modded system. So then they looked like Nescarts and they like went in but they were like U2 drives. Like they were like crazy.

[Dan]

I have to do that for my server.

[Luke Lafreniere]

No, you don't have to do anything.

[Dan]

No, I have to do that.

[Luke Lafreniere]

You have to do that. Can you explain? He actually was just sitting there like this. He wasn't even on camera.

[Dan]

Oh my God.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I gotta,

[Dan]

I'm leaving.

[Linus Sebastian]

I have work to do. I must go.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I have been compelled on topic, you know, to do with PlayStation and game preservation. Sony is planning to stop producing physical game discs in 2028. Okay, we know this, this points to a digital only PlayStation 6. Unfortunately that's a huge problem for like a big chunk of the world today. 121 countries cannot officially create PSN accounts or access the PlayStation Store. So in a disc free, future players in those regions would have no official way to buy PlayStation 6 games at all.

[Linus Sebastian]

So this is the same problem that we had with Helldivers. Right. I'm remembering, I think this is the exact same problem that Helldivers had.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, this whole discussion about how 62% of countries are locked out of PlayStation was kicked off from a Reddit user pointing out that Georgia has no PlayStation Store, meaning that Georgians would not be able to buy games after 2028. It is important context on that 62% number though. This is counting countries, not players and not revenue. So the excluded list, Estonia, Jamaica, Kenya, Pakistan, Vietnam, Zimbabwe, Venezuela and others, is mostly smaller markets. And roughly 70% of Sony's gaming revenue already comes from North America and Europe, where access to The PSN or PlayStation Network and PlayStation Store is not a problem. But these other regions have historically leaned on physical media precisely because PSN isn't available. So losing discs is going to hit them the hardest. Even if they're a small slice of Sony's balance sheet. This lands while Sony is already under pressure on the digital ownership front, facing a $450 million lawsuit from a Dutch nonprofit and a planned antitrust complaint from Mexican lawmakers, Sony has not announced any plan to expand PSN to those 121 countries before the 2028 cutoff. And there's unconfirmed speculation that the PS6 could offer an open, optional external disk drive. Our discussion question is Sony is asking the whole world. Well, not really asking, demanding that the whole world go digital when a big chunk of the world quite literally can't. Is dropping discs a reasonable business call, or is it a giant fu to the gamers who relied on physical media the most?

[Linus Sebastian]

By the way, I'm doing a really quick tally of populations.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Can it be both?

[Linus Sebastian]

And it's billions of people. We're talking about smaller countries. It is billions of people.

[Luke Lafreniere]

From a business standpoint, I see the logic, but from a human standpoint, it's very clear how problematic the behavior is. I think both of those things can be equally true.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, sure, because maybe there are billions of people, but how many of them are getting PlayStations?

[Luke Lafreniere]

There are billions of people, especially PlayStation Sixes. What's a PS6 going to cost?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, how reduced are the prices they're paying on those stores because of currency stuff, blah blah, blah blah blah. That all converts into business value, whatever. But like, oh my God, just have physical frickin disks, bro. What? Wasn't it like almost 20% of PlayStation sales were still physical? Like do we really have to cut this off?

[Luke Lafreniere]

I mean, it was less that it was still 20% or 25 or something like that. And it was more how quickly it was trending towards all digital.

[Linus Sebastian]

Right? That's right.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah. Like it's, it's, it's moving fast. Gamers are making a lot of noise about losing physical media and then a

[Linus Sebastian]

lot of action about buying, lining up

[Luke Lafreniere]

to buy digital media. And I am, I am an, an early adopter of digital media. I basically like stopped buying physical games when Steam became.

[Linus Sebastian]

I have a choice. I know computer games stop being available physically.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I still had a choice. I switched over well before I didn't have a choice.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, well, you're a fart then.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Well, deal with it. Yeah, what are you gonna do about it? I do, I do miss my old Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos box. That was like, well maybe you should have kept buying that was the last cool full sized game box that I bought and I like had it up on my shelf. It was. That was cool.

[Linus Sebastian]

I kept buying them when I could. The PC games disappeared from stores really fast.

[Dan]

Oh yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Like, like really overnight, man.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I went from like when we were at future shop, I wanted to like go see the PC game aisle to like, what is even the point? Why is this even here?

[Linus Sebastian]

Like, I only stopped buying physical games because they just literally were not available. And then for a while there, you could only get them if you bought the collector's edition. And then even the collector's edition just turned into digital codes. Yeah, I don't know.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Gambler says I also switched over. Digital seemed so much more convenient. That was before I knew the evil that would then happen. I mean, evil is a strong word, but anti consumer I could get behind.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah,

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay. Okay, well, I'll do the sponsor spots in a minute. Dan. First I want to do this. I have something called Linus bonus topic. I got tagged in a tweet this week from something that almost certainly is the most AI thing that I have encountered in quite some time. So here's some AI person that's about the most AI profile picture I think I've ever seen with generic, you know, handle how an NCIX dropout built Linus Tech Tips into YouTube's biggest tech channel. That's pretty debatable, but sure, whatever. And basically, basically it's like, it's like just like an like an ego thing. So they generate these pages, tag the person, and then presumably try to get you to talk about them. And it's like a lot of awards are like this where you like, you pay to be considered for an award and then because no one like pays for it, you like win the award and then you get write ups about yourself. And like, anyway, the point is I was like, okay, what is this? I'll bite. Let's have a look. And basically what I came away from this with is that this is in a nutshell, the. The death of the Internet, Luke. The end of being able to find reliable information on the Internet because this is like snake eating its own tail. Content generation that is ultimately only designed to feed into LLMs, which is going to create more content which is going to pull. So, so let's go through here for fun and find some of the things that are wrong in this, in this article that if you, if you dig into who these guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you dig into who these guys are, they are claimable and collectible so you'll. You'll are one true page for everyone making something real, claimable, correctable, and built to be found. This is really important. Built to be found by A.I. okay. And then. So who the crap were you guys again? I forget. I forget. I looked it up and basically it was like two. It was two people from. I want to say. You know what? I'm not going to say where they were from because I forget. Hold on. Where are they? So the company is based in. Peter. Peterborough. Peterborough. Peterborough. Or something like that. And yeah, it's. It's two. It's two Pakistani nationals that maybe are related because they have the same last name that are listed as the founders over on Endole Open. So make of that what you will. Who knows? Maybe everything's fake. But let's. Let's go ahead and let's have a look at just how many things are wrong here before we even have to go too far at the very top. Not too bad. Negotiated a YouTube channel worth millions for exactly $1. Actually, I lied. That's pretty terrible, because it wasn't worth millions at the time. Built a media company from the. The garage with his wife. That's a nice name for you, Luke. No, just kidding. My wife was involved at the beginning. Okay, I'll give them a pass on this clause. And still gets on camera to handle the hardware himself. Okay, fair enough. The most famous tech reviewer on the Internet. Not sure about that. Is also the one who drops the most gear. Okay, so it's AI generated, but it got what, like 70% right? Which I guess is about on par, some of this.

[Dan]

70%. How do you.

[Linus Sebastian]

How do this. Okay, here's a fun question.

[Luke Lafreniere]

How are you quantifying that by words?

[Linus Sebastian]

By word count, character, or sentence?

[Luke Lafreniere]

I'm giving. If they have the word the. And it's in the right spot in a sentence that is mostly correct, then I'm counting.

[Linus Sebastian]

To me, that isn't a fact.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Here, here, hold on. I'm gonna.

[Linus Sebastian]

The word the is not a fact, so I would go based on how many facts they stated.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, here. All right, we'll work. We'll work on this together. We'll. We'll mark it up together.

[Dan]

Okay, here. Here we go.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, so I've got my. I've got my stippy.

[Linus Sebastian]

This is actually a very interesting debate because it would be about error rate. And it's a. It's an interesting conversation.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So he did negotiate a YouTube channel, for example.

[Linus Sebastian]

I'll argue against myself real quick. Yeah, he could even be Wrong. The word he could be wrong.

[Luke Lafreniere]

But it is right. I did right.

[Linus Sebastian]

But it's something that could be wrong.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay.

[Linus Sebastian]

The fact that they got it right could like. It's, it's, it's the whole error. It's a very complicated conversation.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So. Actually I think I was going your way because it's more than 70% right. If we just look at it by word count. Uh, I disagree. The most famous reviewer on the Internet, but he drops the most gear. So what? I give them, I give them a 70%. So maybe they're a little bit closer to 50. If we do it by negotiated a

[Linus Sebastian]

YouTube channel worth millions for exactly $1. If we encapsulate that as one thing, then it's wrong. Correct.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yes.

[Linus Sebastian]

Built a media company from the garage with his wife.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yes. Correct.

[Linus Sebastian]

That is not entirely correct.

[Luke Lafreniere]

But it's. It's not, It's. It's maybe. I would say, I would say that's a solid like 66%. Right.

[Linus Sebastian]

I could agree with.

[Luke Lafreniere]

They got two out of the three people.

[Linus Sebastian]

What?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, no. Ed was there. So 50. At least 50%. Right. We can give them 50% credit for that one.

[Linus Sebastian]

Okay.

[Luke Lafreniere]

And. And I mean, realistically, like, if they're, if they're talking in terms of like the, the shareholders, then they're not wrong.

[Linus Sebastian]

Then it's correct.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Then it's correct.

[Linus Sebastian]

Still to handle Hardware himself.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Totally, totally correct.

[Linus Sebastian]

Most famous tech reviewer. No.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Pretty debatable. I'd say it's probably Marquez if I had to pick one. I mean.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, man.

[Luke Lafreniere]

There's a, there's an argument to be made for Aaron at this point, but it's like, are we talking lifetime or are we talking active? Like, what are we talking about?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, yeah, I think, I think in regards to like household name, you're still going to be Marquez.

[Luke Lafreniere]

You think so?

[Linus Sebastian]

I think so. Because he gets in front of more mainstream media stuff

[Luke Lafreniere]

anyway.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, it's tough. They're both huge.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Is also the one who drops the boson here. I mean, we got to give them that one either way. I think we can agree that there's a lot of ways you can break it down and it's, it's. I'd say it's more correct than incorrect, but there are already some glaring issues.

[Linus Sebastian]

I think that's a pretty low bar.

[Luke Lafreniere]

But yeah, this is pretty, pretty good. But I think this is just like taken from Wikipedia probably. This is a BS number that means nothing. Anytime you've ever read like a Forbes thing or like how much the top creators are making or whatever. Remember, guys, these are people that I know in a lot of cases and also I know myself.

[Linus Sebastian]

What?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, y' all not even. Y' all not even close. Y' all guessing, so don't even worry about that.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, add a couple zeros. Idiots.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Well, no, I didn't say that. Some of this is. Some of this is pretty good. You know, combined. Whatever. Negotiated the IP from NCIX for $1 when he left to start LMG. Yeah, like, some of this is pretty good, but this is where things go absolutely crazy.

[Linus Sebastian]

Cameraman. That's wrong on like, multiple levels.

[Luke Lafreniere]

What are you talking about? Right?

[Linus Sebastian]

That's awesome. I like that. Yeah, that's wrong because there was someone called the cameraman that was like.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yes.

[Linus Sebastian]

A nickname for a specific person. And it's wrong because he wasn't a cameraman.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, yeah, it's.

[Linus Sebastian]

It's wrong for both reasons.

[Luke Lafreniere]

And it has the classic AI issue of being like, just right enough to make you. To make you feel like it's all got to be right. Like, this whole paragraph actually nails it better than almost any other summary I've seen. Sebastian grew up on a hobby farm in Maple Ridge, British Columbia. The kind of childhood that doesn't suggest YouTube billionaire. Okay, first of all, your ver. Your own. Your own value here. Whoops.

[Linus Sebastian]

But anyway, you just need more zeros. It's not that big of a problem.

[Luke Lafreniere]

He was named after Linus Pauling, the only scientist in history to win two unshared Nobel Prizes, which either set an impossible benchmark or a very Canadian one. Not sure what that last bit means, but whatever. We're pretty close. Diagnosed with ADHD as a child, he channeled it into a restless curiosity about how things work. The kind that gets you hired at a computer retailer. I mean, that's. That's probably fair enough. The, like, hyper focus on. On electronics. And then, you know, the touch of the tism that made me prefer computers to people. It probably resulted in my future career. But here's where things get a little bit stupid. You know, all of this kind of. Yeah, mostly made sense. October 12. Linus Media Group Incorporated January 2013 Operations launched from a garage in British Columbia. The co founder on the business side was his wife Yvonne Ho. So far, so good. And a former. A former Hong Kong actress with approximately 50 TV appearances who pivoted to become CFO of a tech media company. Really?

[Linus Sebastian]

So far. Good. So far.

[Luke Lafreniere]

What's the Nicholas Cage meme? You don't say. I didn't know that. I married an older lady.

[Linus Sebastian]

So we're a TV star.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, we're a TV star. So Yvonne Ho, the actress, is over here. Totally different person. Oh, okay. I was hoping for a picture so that we could see.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yvonne Ho, the actress, completely different person, not to be confused with Yvonne Ho, my wife. Ivanhoe actress. Ivanhoe actress. Yvonne, my wife. Yvonne, my wife. And this is like, this is a piece of misinformation that only exists on, like, weird message boards and stuff like that. Like, it's. Where is it getting this stuff? And then, and then. So anyway, I don't think we have to, like, keep going down this whole. Down this whole thing, but like, the fact that this kind of quote unquote resource is being built with the goal of being AI findable and AI searchable. Whether they'll achieve that goal or not at that. That I don't know, but I just feel like we're doomed, man. How are we gonna find. How are we. How are we gonna find accurate information, man?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah,

[Dan]

yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

I'm interested in if it's gonna come up. Okay. So I search it up. I get a Reddit thread, I get Wikipedia, other random junk. I mean, it's not surfacing that high on. On Google, so maybe they're not succeeding in that part.

[Luke Lafreniere]

This is amazing. Ados posted this in. In the chat. How to confuse machine learning. This is so cursed. Thanks. I hate it.

[Linus Sebastian]

That's brutal.

[Luke Lafreniere]

All right, Anywho. All right, well, we can. We can move on. I just, I came across that and I was just like, oh, my gosh, we're doomed. Like, we're so. We're so done. Because that is, for a lot of people, that is actually canon that. I am married to a Hong Kong

[Dan]

actress

[Luke Lafreniere]

who is, I think, like 10 or 15 years my senior.

[Linus Sebastian]

Mm. That's a good move.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, yeah, it's. It was really helpful to leverage her experience in show business. Uh, yeah. She was born in 1974, so she's 12 years older than me. And also, I don't think has ever lived in Canada. So that's. It's a long distance, Long distance relationship we have. There's. There's challenges, but we make it work, you know? Hey.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, oh.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I never talked about the Mac app. Okay. This is so cool. What? Cable is a free Mac app that lets you figure out what your mystery USB C cables are. You just plug one into your Mac and it shows you things like charging limits, data speeds, and display support. Unfortunately, the app's creator, Darryl Morley, told the Verge that he doesn't plan to make a Windows version because Windows APIs don't expose what. What cable needs. But I just thought that this was super cool and I just wanted to highlight it for Mac people so that they could just like, see this. Look at this. How great is this port connected? Carrying both data and display Device runs at 10 gigabit per second, videos going through an HDMI adapter. Here's all this. Like, really. Whoopsie doodles. Here's all the. Damn it. Here's all this.

[Linus Sebastian]

Really? That's for nerds. But about USB cables.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah. So then if you, you know, don't have true spec cables or you have a bunch of cables already, then you can go through, find out what their capabilities are and label everything. Freaking awesome. I love it. That was it. That was all. I just wanted to talk about that. And I believe the free version is free. And you can unlock advanced diagnostics with what? Cable Pro.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, this is what advanced diagnostics means. Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Your monitor stuck at 30Hz, the dock's charging at half speed. Pro tells you which part is lying, which part of the link is underperforming. And apparently Mac reports all of this in, like, a plain text, easy to read fashion that. That he was able to turn into this really useful little application. Love it. Yeah. Yeah, super cool.

[Linus Sebastian]

Someone tried to roast you in chat. Said, I believe the free version is free. Is great analysis, Linus. Thanks. Yeah, it's funny, it sometimes is great analysis, though, because not everything labeled as free actually really is.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Maybe it ends up being free for a time or it's free, but there's microtransact.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, it's free to download, but if you want to have any, like, like go. Go try and find a data recovery software or like a partition manager that's free that actually does anything before you put in a credit card.

[Dan]

Is the. Is the expression free as in beer? I think that's kind of like.

[Linus Sebastian]

I've heard that before.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I haven't heard that before. What does that mean?

[Dan]

That's basically what you're saying is like, it's free as it. As it's free, which means it really is free. As in beer would be like the data recovery software, where it's kind of like, you know, there's a catch.

[Linus Sebastian]

Like you're, you're.

[Dan]

You know, it's like a timeshare.

[Linus Sebastian]

I actually never took it that way. Interesting.

[Dan]

Yeah. I might be wrong. That's kind of how I know it.

[Linus Sebastian]

I think I just interpreted it. So I don't know that I'm right either. But the way I've interpreted. It was usually like, you know, like, if you get your friends to come help you move, you provide free beer, pizza and snacks.

[Dan]

It's got free beer, of course. No, you're moving a couch up 15 flights of stairs.

[Linus Sebastian]

It's free beer. Yeah. You want to come over and have some beers and pizza? And they're like, yeah. And like, also, I need you to get my stuff.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Right?

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah, maybe. Maybe that's right.

[Linus Sebastian]

But yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure. 1. Press the button.

[Luke Lafreniere]

OnePlus

[Linus Sebastian]

no longer making phones for North America and the EU.

[Luke Lafreniere]

See you later, Market.

[Linus Sebastian]

Wow. OnePlus and parent company Oppo confirmed the brand will stop watching new phones in those locations. This will end a run that began in 2014 with the OnePlus One. Wow. Existing owners won't be cut off right away, since opposite warranty, after scale, support and software updates are all guaranteed. But over the coming months, OnePlus ones will drop their Oxygen OS software for Oppo's ColorOS, starting with the Android 17 update. Yeah, but why are they leaving though? OnePlus framed this as a global strategy adjustment, but Ars Technica is trying tying. Tying the retreat to the memory crunch with RAM alone now accounting for more than a quarter of the phone's bill of materials. And I suspect if you're not selling in at least the states, you might be able to use Chinese ram.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, even. Dude, apparently people are lined up out the door for CXMT memory at this point. Like, it's. Any supply that they can build is getting immediately absorbed. I think it was Apple's asking for an exemption to use it for global devices. And like, things are, things are getting, things are getting crazy.

[Linus Sebastian]

It is very interesting with sk, Hynix and Samsung making so much money on memory right now, because it kind of feels like. And Micron. Yeah, it kind of feels like they're,

[Luke Lafreniere]

they're almost inviting. They're almost inviting their own demise here.

[Linus Sebastian]

Like there's a known famine coming and they're just sitting gorging themselves. Interesting.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah. I think that the ultimate winners are not going to be them, but that's not financial advice and I have no idea how long you'll have to stay solvent in order for the market to become rational. Memory is still a commodity, even if today it's an expensive commodity. This is going to get interesting at some point. Yeah, Scrappy. DP says they're inviting competition and the competition was like waiting in the wings and freaking ready.

[Linus Sebastian]

They're not just inviting it, man.

[Luke Lafreniere]

When there's like, anytime there's that much money involved, someone will see it and go, hey, investing in chasing this unicorn is worth it. And they'll try.

[Linus Sebastian]

And they, like, they cooked, like, steak and garlic bread and potatoes, and then they put a fan that blew out the window, and they put a big glowing sign, and they're like, there's also free money in here and everything else you ever wanted, and all you have to do is just do the thing you're already doing.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

And we'll completely, honestly get out of your way and leave the house, and you can just have the house as well. That's. That's.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

That feels honestly like. I don't even think I'm exaggerating.

[Luke Lafreniere]

By the way. My wife's a great cook.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

You'll like her. Like, just.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, it's. It's wild. I've personally never seen something like this. And, I mean, there's a great book. I Recommend it to Mr. Brandon Lee recently. I don't remember the name of it. Dan Siegel recommended it to me. But it's on how, like, Apple basically sold, you know, American ip, how to make modern electronics and stuff to China. They exported, making phones and stuff there, and then also protected Chinese interests for, like, years by lobbying to the American government so they could keep making all of their stuff there, and then basically teaching them how to make all this stuff. And it's a very interesting. Like, for over a decade, Apple was like, yeah, come on, make sure you get better at making all of these things and having all of these skills and production lines and everything all over there. Is it just called Apple in China? Yeah. I don't know. It's a fascinating book, but, I mean, it's been. Not just asked for, it's been begged.

[Luke Lafreniere]

When's the.

[Linus Sebastian]

Very long.

[Luke Lafreniere]

When's the sequel about Tesla?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, no, seriously, though, like, it's. And I mean, we talked about this recently, like, the Chinese model, where companies over there have to be predominantly owned by Chinese companies. And, like, if you want to sell there, you have to produce there, and you have to basically teach them how to do it. It's all. It's fascinating, man. There's this. It's a quote. I got it from something within the last few weeks. I don't know if it was an audiobook or a podcast or a YouTube video or what, but it was from something. But it's. Chaos is a ladder. And it's just been in my head a lot lately because you. You see what's happening right now. Like, there is more chaos than I have personally experienced in my lifetime. Right now concentrated in the right now wars all over the planet. Very active.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Are you sure you're not just more aware of it?

[Linus Sebastian]

I don't think so. I think, I think. When has there been more sustained economic chaos than now in our lifetimes?

[Luke Lafreniere]

I mean, 2008 was a pretty wild ride.

[Linus Sebastian]

The thing was huge.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Millennials really did. Millennials really did get to ride the roller coaster, man.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, yeah, yeah. But I feel like 2008 was very concentrated. The right now seems persistent. The right now seems like a new future.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Remember that? Remember though that we were in Canada for the 2008 financial crisis and it was a much softer blow here. Like the US got Shrek during the 2008 crisis, whereas we, like, especially in Vancouver, we barely even saw our property values dip. Like, it was totally.

[Linus Sebastian]

Am I remembering this wrong? It was a massive, massive hit. And then it was growing out of that hit, right?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, it was a relatively short term hit. Whereas, like right now, Covid. Plus a particularly tumultuous period in American politics, which I'm not talking this is

[Linus Sebastian]

the most chaotic moment we also live through. 9, 11.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Sure.

[Linus Sebastian]

I'm talking this is the most chaotic, like, large period of time. And I could be wrong. It just kind of feels like it that way. It might be recency bias. It might be a lot.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I wonder if every generation feels that way. I mean, like, from my understanding, the period around the, like the Vietnam War was like.

[Linus Sebastian]

No, in.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, in your lifetime?

[Linus Sebastian]

In my lifetime. In my lifetime. There's way, way more chaotic things in history.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I mean, didn't the, didn't the Berlin Wall fall within our lifetimes or. No, that might only be me. When did the, when did the Berlin wall fall? Date? 1989. So, yeah, I don't think you were born yet. I was.

[Linus Sebastian]

Nope.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, so in your lifetime trying to think, man, most chaos in your life. Yeah, probably.

[Linus Sebastian]

Then there's war all over the place right now. There's extreme instability geopolitically. I mean, we've got, we've got countries talking about taking over other countries, like constantly right now, and both of the really big ones are doing so.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I remember having this conversation with you like a while back, like years ago on WAN show, where I came across a Risk map, like a Risk game board that my friend Tyson had in high school. And it had like, it had like Persia on it or something, or like the Ottoman Empire or something. And I was like, what the fuck? Like, like the countries change because post World War II, that's, like, not a thing. It's, like, illegal, you know, And. And it occurred to me, I think this must have been around the time that Russia annexed Crimea. It occurred to me that, like, that was all just kind of not normal. That constant conquest and war was not a thing. Like, this period of relative global stability that our generation enjoyed for a while was not the normal. And it almost feels like, although you and I might describe what's happening now as chaos, it almost feels like a return to how it, like, you know, really worked for a really long time. Like, you look at. You look at, you know, what happened in the lifetime of someone. Like a Napoleon, right? Like how, you know, within one. And remember, people didn't live that long.

[Linus Sebastian]

I mean, the, like, inventor of total war is maybe not. Maybe not the fairest example, but yeah,

[Luke Lafreniere]

within one short French guy's lifetime, there were, like, multiple campaigns that were attempts to take over the known world, you know?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

The fact that we've made it to, you know, almost 40 here and what, you're 35, 36. I can never remember how many years younger you are. Somewhere in that range.

[Linus Sebastian]

I'm 90.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay. Yeah, so four years younger than me. So the fact that, like, we've made it this far and there hasn't been, like. Like a. Like a gigantic land war in Europe is kind of insane. To be clear, there is a land war in Europe right now, but the fact we made it this far and there wasn't one was kind of wild. And I don't think. Dude, I don't think it's ever going back. I don't. I don't see a path to it right now, man. We're getting way off, like, tech topics right now.

[Linus Sebastian]

How did we even get here? What were we talking about?

[Luke Lafreniere]

OnePlus?

[Linus Sebastian]

Hell, yeah. Oh, right. Because of sanctions and whatever else. I. I don't know. I could. I could see a future where we get away from this.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Could you? Will the middle powers unite? Will that actually work?

[Linus Sebastian]

The middle powers might unite. I think there's. I mean, there's. There's been a lot of talk about, like, China taking Taiwan, but I've been looking into that more recently and how. How a lot of the people on the mainland feel about that, and it's actually quite nuanced where a lot of the people of the mainland do want Taiwan back, but they don't want Taiwan back with bombs. Which is. Which is interesting because with my previously even more external and ignorant position than I now have, which is highly external and highly ignorant. It felt like they were just trying to find an excuse to just roll the tanks in. But it feels like they want to do it politically.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Here's my problem.

[Linus Sebastian]

They might. They might, you know, cloak and dagger politically.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Here's my problem with that. Xi Jinping is 73.

[Linus Sebastian]

They might want to get it before he goes away. It's the same thing as Putin. But then that's the other thing you said. I don't know if we'll go back. Xi Jinping, old Putin, old Trump, old. There may be an expiry date. I mean, some of these problem.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, let's start with Russia. You know, Russia has been Russia since long before Putin was involved.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Russia be doing Russia things. I think all bets are.

[Linus Sebastian]

I do think there could be a lot of pressure, though, if, say, Putin did pass away for someone coming in to economically turn that place around by not doing the stuff that they're currently.

[Luke Lafreniere]

But the most Russia thing ever would be for someone to promise to economically

[Linus Sebastian]

turn Russia around, more people at the

[Luke Lafreniere]

wall anyway, and then support the oligarchy.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

[Dan]

So,

[Luke Lafreniere]

sure.

[Linus Sebastian]

Hey, I can be hopeful.

[Luke Lafreniere]

China, China. I have no idea. China. I don't understand the history well enough to make any kind of useful prediction. The only thing for me is xi Jinping is 73. He has, from my understanding, said pretty clearly that his plan is to reunify China. He. That he will do it. And so that gives us not a lot of time.

[Linus Sebastian]

Maybe a bit of a timeline. Yeah, yeah. I just. I don't know. I don't. I don't give up hope that people might be tired of the bad and bring in some good. It does seem to be that things have to get really, really, really, really bad before that happens. So we'll see what that is.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, we won't. I mean, there's stuff happens, like, every week it feels like that would have qualified as really, really, really, really bad within our lifetimes. I mean, I don't know if you. I don't know if you saw this, but they're. The plan for Truth Social is to sell API access to the banks to get market moving. Truth Social tweets earlier than they are posted publicly through the. Yeah, like that. That should be like administration ending.

[Linus Sebastian]

That's just open, blatant fraud.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Well, it's insider, more so than all

[Linus Sebastian]

of the other Open, blatant fraud.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Well, corruption. I don't know if it's specifically fraud, but it's certainly corruption trading fraud. It's certainly insider trading.

[Linus Sebastian]

Probably. I'M probably using the word incorrectly. Oh, no. Insider trading is securities fraud.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, there you go. Then. It's, it's literally openly selling market moving information and nobody. I. It's, it's been, it's been remarkable watching the transition that has taken place in my lifetime. Like, I'm trying to imagine if Obama did this instead of wore a beige suit, for instance. What the, what the reaction might have been. It's. Yeah, it's remarkable.

[Linus Sebastian]

Remember Bill Clinton's the, the work that was going on under his desk? Like, I think that would last for a day or two right now.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I don't even know if it would.

[Linus Sebastian]

I mean, or a couple hours

[Luke Lafreniere]

maybe. I don't, I don't even know if it would register. I mean, remember, this is the. Grab them by the candidate. Right. Like it's, it wouldn't even be. It wouldn't even be surprising at this point. Oh, Want to see something? Want to see something disheartening?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

All right, Here, I got this for you. I got this for you. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Okay. We're gonna go us, we're gonna go past five years. And we're going to go like this. Here we go. Guess what people forgot about already.

[Linus Sebastian]

I can't. Through my screen. I can't see this.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I know you're supposed to guess.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh,

[Luke Lafreniere]

Epstein, you better believe it. Yeah, like, okay, Cool, man.

[Linus Sebastian]

I remember when people didn't like pedophiles.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I do too. I remember it fondly.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, it was pretty cool. That was a good time, you know?

[Luke Lafreniere]

It was a pretty good time.

[Linus Sebastian]

That was a pretty good time.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Like, I remember when an affair with a. A grown ass woman was a scandal. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Microsoft is testing a CoPilot feature called PC Insights that can answer questions by reading your CPU, RAM, GPU and storage. It's spotted by Windows latest and it lets the AI tell you things like why is my PC slow? Or what GPU do I have? Or do I have room for a 100 gigabyte game? And then it taps Windows APIs to check usage along with storage, battery info, antivirus status, connected devices like printers or USB drives. It is opt in requires permission each time and it can't read the contents of your files unless you specifically allow is however. Yeah, okay, so that was. That was a w. Are you ready for the L side? It's worth pointing out that Copilot for Windows now ships as a standalone spinoff of the Edge browser and can eat close to 1 gigabyte of RAM while sitting completely idle. Regularly showing up among the top memory users in Task Manager. So it can tell you why you're out of memory. But the answer might be.

[Linus Sebastian]

It would be really funny if you could tell. It can. Like, oh, can you solve the problem with why I have no memory left and it just closes itself? That would be awesome.

[Luke Lafreniere]

This is rolling out slowly in the US only with no timeline for a wider release, and lands right as Microsoft is separately promising to cut Windows 11's baseline memory usage.

[Linus Sebastian]

Honestly, as long as it's opt in specifically and has the option to uninstall it if it has both of those things. Sounds great.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Like, to be clear, I'm not actually hating on this. I think it's pretty cool. But the fact that it's opt in

[Linus Sebastian]

if this was default all the time and it's reporting back to Microsoft because of course it is and it's being tied to your whatever the GD ID whatever thing, blah blah blah blah blah. It's going to blow and I'm going to be pissed off. But opt in people can make their own choices.

[Luke Lafreniere]

By the way, just the last follow on point to our discussion of the Epstein files. Luke, I'm not feeling suicidal, are you?

[Linus Sebastian]

No.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, I'm chilling. I would ask Dan, but I'm afraid of the answer.

[Linus Sebastian]

What?

[Dan]

Maybe I'm feeling murderous.

[Linus Sebastian]

There you go.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So you never know what he's going to say. Luke, he's right.

[Linus Sebastian]

I see. He might have trolley answers. I was like, what do you mean?

[Luke Lafreniere]

New York has banned new hyperscale data centers for one year. They became the first US state to hit pause on new hyperscale data centers with Governor Kathy Hochul signing an executive order that blocks state environmental permits for up to a year. It applies to any campus that draws 50 million watts or more, which for a modern data center actually isn't that much since all the big flagship ones are running into the hundreds of megawatts or even gigawatts projects that are already approved do keep going. This only hits new ones. The reason comes down to pushback on the AI building boom. People are worried about rising utility bills, strained power grids, and the enormous amount of water that these places use for. Okay, this says for cooling, but that's not actually all of it. A lot of the water is actually in the construction process. But yes, they. They can use a lot for cooling, especially if they use evaporative cooling. But not all of them do. There is a nuanced conversation around the water usage. So I want to make sure that we are properly representing That a lot of them do use a butt ton of water and a lot of them, once they're running, actually use very little. Anyway, during the pause, the state is going to write up a proper regulatory framework. And Hochul is also pushing to make data centers either supply their own power or pay more for it so regular customers aren't stuck covering the cost. Okay, yeah, this is one that should be obvious. Blows my mind is not the default. Okay, so Luke, I don't. I don't know if I've. I don't have. I talked to you about when I tried to get into like crypto mining at some point. Yeah. Okay, so I was.

[Linus Sebastian]

If you talk about it super publicly,

[Luke Lafreniere]

I was blown away. Like when I was looking into it, I was blown away that it is cheaper to get power to an industrial property. Cheaper, Literally.

[Linus Sebastian]

It's a business subsidy.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Nothing else in life is cheaper. For the business version. Oh, it's pronounced Hochul. Sorry, guys, I don't know American names. What? Business? Laptop, more expensive. Business windows, more expensive. Business camera, more expensive. Business. Electricity. That's cheap.

[Linus Sebastian]

It's not from the. All the things you listed before. Electricity were not from the government though.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, fine, let me think. Business land, not cheaper. Business permit, not cheaper. There. Okay. Also from government

[Linus Sebastian]

Land, from the government.

[Luke Lafreniere]

My taxes sure are property taxes. I don't think those are cheaper.

[Linus Sebastian]

Okay,

[Luke Lafreniere]

well, what's going on here?

[Linus Sebastian]

Cheaper and also a tax claim. Yeah, it gets weird. Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Business tv, not cheaper says Etze. Or at Zelm, whatever that is.

[Linus Sebastian]

I know a lot of people in BC that do crypto mining. Basically just scam farm power.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, that makes sense. That's even cheaper than industrial, isn't it?

[Linus Sebastian]

I think so. I'm not certain.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Is crypto mining still a thing

[Linus Sebastian]

a lot of people. Well, I shouldn't say a lot. Some people especially that have more modern cards for mining have just pivoted to AI training.

[Luke Lafreniere]

AI training. But is there like crowd?

[Linus Sebastian]

You rent it out crowd.

[Luke Lafreniere]

AI training? Really? Shut up.

[Linus Sebastian]

Crowd.

[Luke Lafreniere]

They're now mining pearl. What is pearl? Curious bread man. Pearl mining. Gpu. Like, is this gpu?

[Linus Sebastian]

Well, there's a bunch of these.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Proof of useful work for AI Compute. No way.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, usually something instead of like crypto mining where you can just run it for like however long you want. Usually you rent out like a block of time because if you wanted to do something like training or a big working task, you can't have it just, you know, be taken from a random pool. It needs to actually complete the job.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Right.

[Linus Sebastian]

So it's a little bit different. And now there's a little bit more pressure on like, you know, do you have a ups. Do you have a backup generator? Do you have whatever to make sure that this person's task actually completes.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, interesting.

[Linus Sebastian]

And there's like reputations tied to things and it's funky. Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Curious Bread says the Pearl crypto is just doing useless AI inference matrix. It's not actually useful AI training work. There's a paper exposing Pearl just doing random math for no reason.

[Linus Sebastian]

Okay. Yeah, I mean.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I mean, I. Maybe I.

[Linus Sebastian]

Neither of us named Pearl.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, no, no, I did because I was. Because someone mentioned it in chat. Yeah, no, it was Curious Bread who is posting that now that. That flag Pearl to us. Okay. Trey is interesting. People are always going to be looking for something to do with all of the extra GPUs they have. I guess.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. Yeah. I also know there's like some people even. Even independent miners that have like pretty solid clusters of GPUs are doing like individual contracts with certain companies and stuff. Companies that want a. Like this thing we've been talking about of like a siloed like local ll, but they don't necessarily have the know how or access to the hardware or whatever else, man.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Do you remember, Luke, when I found that. That property in like White Rock that was zoned data center. And I was like, we should buy it and build like a tiny data center. That would have actually been there. That would have actually been like a banger business move.

[Linus Sebastian]

That's. That's the extra zeros you needed, man. You would have made.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Might have been fun too though, actually. Like building a. I wouldn't have wanted to do anything large scale, but building like a small data center. I feel like people are so desperate for compute these days that they would rent anything anyway. So you could be a small player and probably still be functional. No key says we bought a data center. Might be the next April Fools. Nice.

[Linus Sebastian]

I mean, maybe like just to be transparent with people flow plane staring down the barrel of a lot of price increases in regards to.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay.

[Linus Sebastian]

Our infrastructure costs.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So hear me out. We move it on.

[Linus Sebastian]

Premaritti pitch this to you, did you? I mean, I'm down, so let's move it on. Prem, AJ's been doing go work. There's a potential plan where our. Have we. Have we named our ISP publicly?

[Dan]

Probably.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I think so, yeah. Itel.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. Okay, so ITEL has apparently some like, fiber that's basically direct from us into Vancouver.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Into a colocation.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So. No, that's that's like, that's like what we pay for. Like we have. So that's why our Internet connection is so expensive. It's because we effectively. Not quite, but effectively because of the provisioning. It's. It is an unshared link. Effectively, yeah. So that link, we are 10 gig

[Linus Sebastian]

connects with a colocation data center that we could put servers into.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yes.

[Linus Sebastian]

So we are looking at. And this isn't even like I'm to be clear, I'm not mad at OVH. Yeah, we're going to this but OVH's prices are being postured to like erupt and because of normal business things, just to be completely honest, the cost of new hardware for them is absolutely skyrocketing and there are big clients wanting to spend lots of money that want to come in. So this is normal business stuff, but we're looking at what could happen. We don't know that it's going to happen yet. OVH has not said this is going to happen to us or anything. But we're looking at what could happen and going like, okay, well we're closed. So trying to figure out how we can be not closed. And one of the ways we might be able to be not closed is

[Luke Lafreniere]

to put something on prem at Vanix. Yeah, that'd be kind of cool actually.

[Linus Sebastian]

And AJ started looking through a lot of our hardware and apparently some of these servers were just inventoried as the name of the server without all of the individual details of the hardware. So there's actually been a ton of hardware that's been found and it's becoming much more real. I'm down as a possibility. There are major problems that I need to talk to you about.

[Luke Lafreniere]

We would need like a, like a proper like diesel generator. Like we'd need a proper backup. We'd need.

[Linus Sebastian]

Well, it would be at the Colo Center.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, so you wouldn't put anything here? I thought you meant like take advantage of the 10 gig pipe.

[Linus Sebastian]

I think ducting it might end up being a three tier system.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay.

[Linus Sebastian]

Sums at the Colo center, sums at lmg.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I think we'd leave some at ovh.

[Linus Sebastian]

Still at ovh?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yes. So the main thing that we would want from OVH is probably their public cloud. So the idea would be that we could spill over to resources that are at lmg. But then if we need to spill over even more, we would spill over into scalable stuff at ovh and that's going to be expensive, but it's just

[Luke Lafreniere]

minimize the Use though.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, we're minimizing the views and if we're spilling over that much, hopefully it's something good that's happening and then it's okay if we build more scale up the stuff we have and it'll be all right and that'll just be a strong indicator to like, hey, up your hardware.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

But yeah, there are problems we should chat about off camera. But there's things, but it's a plan basically. You know, it's try to make opportunity out of the bad.

[Luke Lafreniere]

We just have to not throw a USB drive at it and then everything's good.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

That's crazy.

[Linus Sebastian]

You know, I mean our, our server rooms on prem are pretty okay.

[Luke Lafreniere]

They're at this point they're actually less trash than they used to be. The one here in the studio sucks. It's just really hard to work in. But the one over at Labs, I think really all I would, all I would want to do with that one is I would want to double up the cooling so that if one of them fails, you still have cooling. And then the other thing that I would want to do there is I, I, we lose power here so much and sometimes for like an hour, five hours at a time is we would need to have like on site diesel generation backup.

[Linus Sebastian]

But then we might not because if the primary hardware is at the colo and we still have this bill over at ovh, is it more economically reasonable to buffer LMG that much and make it that resilient or should we just rely on the spillover to ovh and then you have to do a calculation of like how often do we expect the colo to go down? The colo is not as reliable as OVH is. Yeah, but then it's pretty good.

[Luke Lafreniere]

You've also got a factor in as good. You got to factor in the economics that are unique to us where anything that we build to video change our infrastructure is content, baby.

[Linus Sebastian]

Like if you, this is, it's a, it's a surprisingly complicated question that AJ's working on.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So if you come to me, me and you say, hey, I want to buy a $30,000 diesel generator, I tell you that you can write off. And then if you tell me, hey, I need a $30,000 diesel generator and we're going to do a two series, two, two part video series. And oh, by the way, we've got a great sponsor who wants to come in and sponsor it for us. I'm like, let's go. Like it's A complete.

[Linus Sebastian]

We're going to turn off the mains power and see if anyone in the building can notice for an hour. Yeah, and that'll. That'll be like the challenge of the video.

[Luke Lafreniere]

That's a. That's banger content, dude. Yeah, like, that's so cool.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, but there are. There are more questions than that. But we'll. We'll get into. It's a longer conversation. It's a little, little dead conversation for wan show.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay.

[Linus Sebastian]

It gets less interesting than video ideas.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Hear me out. But hear me out. For the backup power generation, we use the fire truck that we still haven't managed to sell.

[Linus Sebastian]

So we permanently. We permanently wire the fire truck into the building.

[Luke Lafreniere]

He loves it.

[Dan]

Did you guys ever read that book?

[Luke Lafreniere]

He loves it.

[Dan]

The old steam. The old steam digger that, like, dug in the big skyscraper and then when it couldn't get out of the hole, they, like, turned it into the steam boiler and it powered the building.

[Luke Lafreniere]

No way.

[Dan]

That's basically what.

[Luke Lafreniere]

That's what we're talking about. We're talking about. That's what we're talking about. That's awesome. Let's go.

[Linus Sebastian]

That is kind of sick. I don't. I don't know how I'd feel about losing all that parking permanently on the roof.

[Luke Lafreniere]

This man. This man.

[Dan]

Are you stupid?

[Luke Lafreniere]

We'd have to reinforce the roof again.

[Dan]

We already did.

[Linus Sebastian]

The coolest building. This is this huge fire truck on the roof. He's like, why?

[Dan]

I mean, we could gut it and shell it and. No. Yeah, it's worth it.

[Linus Sebastian]

No, you should definitely make it that you could climb up a ladder to the roof and then go into a fully functioning fire truck.

[Dan]

No, we have that. We have that roof. That roof top thing. It could open up into the middle of the fire truck. And so you. You go up into the fire truck on the roof, and then to get on the roof, you have to exit the fire truck.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, Lordy. Anyway, yeah, I. I fully support moving more on prem.

[Dan]

On top of prem.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Also. I have no idea how viable it would be. But, you know, you know Hetzner, right? We've done some sponsor spots for them. How much do you know about them?

[Linus Sebastian]

No, I mean, I'm aware of them. I don't. I don't actually know. Like a ton.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay. I was in Germany this week. I don't know if you know that.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yep. I often don't know where the heck you are. But I did know about that trip just because we were talking about the tinniti.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah. So I was In Germany. And I went to see Hetzner's flagship location in. Oh God. I'm gonna. I'm gonna butcher this Hetzner DC location. Falconstein Falcons. Yeah. Falcon. No. Falkenstein.

[Linus Sebastian]

Sick.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Falkenstein. Falkenstein. So I was in absolutely but nowhere Germany this week checking out the Hetzner data center. And as I toured the place, I didn't actually say this in the video. I don't know if it would have come across the right way to them. But as I toured the place, the one thought that I could not get out of my mind was this feels like how LTT would build a data center. So. No, no, but I mean that in the best possible way.

[Linus Sebastian]

What does that mean?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay. Okay. So you know how most people would build a data center with 19 inch racks and probably Dells or HP servers, right? Okay. Well they thought, why would I buy a 19 inch rack for from a 19 inch rack supplier who needs to make money for building 19 inch racks when instead I could buy 4 posts and sheet metal.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, hold on, hold on.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. Okay, that's cool.

[Luke Lafreniere]

It gets better. Why would I use loud, obnoxious, 40 millimeter shrieking fans on like super skinny on super skinny builds, when instead I could do like a 2 1/2 u so that I could just put a standard 80 or 92 millimeter fan on the back of it, pull that air from the cold aisle directly through the CPU heatsink, and just make the racks taller. Why would I use Enterprise hardware when I could just put Ryzen 3600 in the rack and people can rent a bare metal Ryzen 3600? In fact, it's up to them. If they even want ECC memory, I just let them choose. Get this, get this. The cooling. The cooling for the entire building. So I asked this right when I came in. So the building instead of being like square with a flat top roof is like steeply inclined. So it goes to a high point on one side. And the reason for that is that they actually have that entire end of the top of the building open to the air. And the way they get away with this is they have forced air intake that goes down into the raised floor in the bottom of the raised floor that's chilled, that comes up into your cold aisle, which exhausts out into your. I'll call it a warm aisle because it's not that hot. And then that heat naturally through convection makes its way to the top of the building and it farts it out.

[Linus Sebastian]

Is how much like is that amount of force of that air able to keep like rain out.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yes.

[Linus Sebastian]

How does that work?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Keeps out the rain, keeps out the snow. It gets better like so by having the building shaped like that about. They say about four to five days out of the year they have to turn on the, the evaporative coolers. But those sit in the lee of the building. They sit under the high side and they're on the north side so that the sun never hits them. It's just like there's. They. They designed their own H vac systems because I don't know, they could. Because buying it from someone else would have been expensive. Like it's just the whole thing. It was the most, it was the most LTT that's cool data center that I've ever seen. And it just, it made me happy touring it. It's going to be a really great video, you guys. It. I. I hope you enjoy the heck out of it. I had a ton of fun checking out their data center.

[Linus Sebastian]

That's sweet.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh yeah, Here's a good shot of the shape of the buildings.

[Dan]

Oh yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Okay.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So instead of doing crazy things like building their data centers in like a densely populated metropolitan area and then building them up, they just built it in the absolute farmland, country ass. Countryside. And they're just like, yeah, land is cheap. So we just put up these structures next to each other and anytime we need another one, we just build another one. It's honestly the most based approach to data center building that I've ever seen. It's not necessarily like the most cutting edge. Like they're doing almost nothing with GPU multi GPU servers yet. So you know, there's a lot of customers that are going to look at this and go, yeah, that doesn't make sense for me. But in terms of just bare metal hosting, you can, you can get an epic server if you want or is the on or whatever. They'll, they'll. They'll put anything in your shelf.

[Dan]

Right.

[Luke Lafreniere]

And I just, I don't know, I think it's. I think it's really cool. So they, I don't know, they might be worth us, worth us looking at because the rates looked really reasonable when I was checking them out.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So if we needed something in Europe, then that may be a way to go. Like, like the colocation at Vanex, it would have the challenge of maybe not being as reliable as something like an ovh. I mean to be clear, they have redundant power, they have redundant cooling. Like it doesn't.

[Linus Sebastian]

We've had actually like I don't know. I want to get way too into stuff. But yeah, it'll be, it'll be if it happens, which I think it's pretty likely because costs everywhere, not just OVH everywhere, are projected to like, in a lot of cases, just double when contract renews this year. It's, it's likely we're going to have to be pulling stuff in house. And it's also interestingly likely a decent amount of places will need to in order to keep costs reasonable. Because, you know, just because there's a lot of AI money floating around does not mean that a lot of companies have anything to do with that at all. And if their cost of sales in regards to their infrastructure is just doubling out of nowhere, that's going to hurt some people. So we'll see how it goes.

[Luke Lafreniere]

All right, cool. Sounds like a, sounds like a business meeting later that we can continue. Not on WAN Show. People love it when we do business meeting on WAN show, though.

[Linus Sebastian]

That's true.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I think they do. I actually haven't checked how viewership is tracking. People used to like it when we did. Yeah. Hey, I thought this was another fun one for you. On Saturday, Japan's space agency JAXA successfully launched and landed its experimental RVX rocket in the country's first ever reusable rocket test flight. I assume you saw this. Yeah, the flight was pretty short with the rocket rising about 11 meters, moving 16 meters sideways and then touching back down in under a minute. The goal is a cheaper reusable successor to Japan's current single use H3 rocket. JAXA is co developing the RVX with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and is separately working on reusable rockets with France and Germany. Jax's next test flight is aiming for a much higher 100 meters. Discussion question. Do you think government agencies like JAXA will be able to catch up with the likes of Blue Origin and SpaceX? I mean, I think this is speaking

[Linus Sebastian]

of Blue Origin and SpaceX. Check that link out.

[Dan]

Oh,

[Luke Lafreniere]

Chinese engineers using wires to perfectly catch rocket booster. Oh, hello. Oh, that's actually like super smart.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yep.

[Luke Lafreniere]

But hey, three trillion dollar company, right? I mean this is one of those things. It's almost like what we were talking about earlier with the memory memory manufacturers. It's like when you, when you put a big enough target on yourself, don't be surprised when everybody takes a shot.

[Linus Sebastian]

Well, and it's like, it's interesting. There's, there's some questions on like did Elon know? And is that why they pushed for IPO when they Did. Who knows? I have no idea. The concept actually just kind of makes a lot of sense. Apparently, it had been, like, theorized by a variety of people in the past. Because it's like. It's like almost 3D printer logic.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Like, it kind of does actually make a lot of sense if you go as far as to think of catching a freaking rocket. Which is crazy.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

At all. Once you go that far, you think about, how would I do this? Huge chopsticks coming in actually feels kind of crazier than wires on, like, effectively 3D printer rails.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

And that also allows you to do it at C instead of on land, which there are benefits to doing it on land, because you could theoretically reuse that rocket faster. It's in place. Other good things about it. But this is a potentially very cheap route, and failures should also be cheaper. Blah, blah, blah. Bloop.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Bedhead says lol. Chinese using string, Americans using chopsticks.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, my God. Guys, I was not. Okay, you need to know, like, with the stuff that's going on, the SpaceX thing is called chopsticks. Anyways.

[Dan]

Whatever.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Way to go, Luke.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, it's. There's. I mean, there's a lot of interesting stuff happening in space. I was talking to someone at Open Sauce last night who's in a hobby rocketry club in bc, which, go figure.

[Dan]

All right.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Small.

[Linus Sebastian]

I didn't even know there, like, was any, so that's interesting. And he was talking about how their school is planning on defunding their hobby rocketry club. And the thing that was interesting to them was they were saying, you know, I'm getting one side of the story, whatever. But they were saying that. And hopefully I'm quoting this all correctly, but they were saying that they were willing to fund themselves. Themselves. And the school was like, no. And that seems crazy to me because I'm going to do that thing again where I say at any point in time in my life, but it feels like space stuff is getting so extremely active right now, including globally.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I mean, did you see this? This wasn't in the doc. But did you see the leak, slash report, slash investigation, whatever you want to call it, that apparently since since 2023, the Chinese and Russians have been working on a way to disable or, worst case scenario, destroy Starlink.

[Linus Sebastian]

I mean, I'm not surprised.

[Luke Lafreniere]

No, it makes sense.

[Linus Sebastian]

If you look at what's happening in Ukraine, it's like one of the most important, you know, accessories to war in that arena at all.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah,

[Dan]

yeah, yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Crazy. Why would they defund that like my local robotics club that I did in school, just not supported by the school either, which is crazy. Yeah, I don't know, it's, it's just the, the thing that stood out to me was specifically that they've like had it for a while and they want to defund it now of all times. And I'm just like, man, what are you doing? Look at the stock market. Look at whatever. What are you, you're a score school. You're supposed to be preparing people for like the jobs they might get into. This is highly applicable. Like what, what are you doing? It seems like such a weird time to do that. I don't know, maybe the school's on hard times or something, but then at least let the, the people involved self fund and still like support it as a, as a thing in the school. I don't know, whatever. Just very frustrating.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Space race is back.

[Linus Sebastian]

Space race is back. I mean, China and the US have both proposed dates for when they're going to be boots on the ground on Mars again. The States is currently falling behind their timelines. China is pushing. There's, it's, it's, it's, it's interesting to me because neither of the countries seem to want to like really like declare it or acknowledge it, but we are absolutely in a space race right now. Like, it is no question, it is absolutely fully active.

[Luke Lafreniere]

It's too bad. Only, listen, one of the competitors is increasing funding for space and the other one is decreasing it, which is, yeah, sort of seems like it's gonna determine the outcome. But yeah, hey, maybe it'll, maybe, maybe it'll get lucky.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, we'll see how it goes. But it's, it's, it's a very interesting time.

[Luke Lafreniere]

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[Dan]

Excuse me.

[Luke Lafreniere]

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[Linus Sebastian]

All right.

[Dan]

You're not gonna do your.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I'll do that next week. Oh,

[Dan]

boop.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Nice.

[Dan]

There we go.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Solid.

[Dan]

I was unprepared. Let's do this one as well. I just have a couple for. Yeah, actually it's more than it was earlier. Wow, look at that. Hello, Comm 1, Comm 2 and Comm 3. Luke, on a past WAN show, you said you were considering using Kagi Kaji. Do you have any updates?

[Linus Sebastian]

Kagi Kagi.

[Dan]

I was right the first time.

[Linus Sebastian]

Kagi. I have dabbled with it. Honestly, I've been not actually searching an incredible amount over the last bit and I have it set up at home. I don't have it set up on this laptop, but I have used it a little bit. I've also used it. I've been poking around, I've been trying something recently called Waterfox. And Waterfox recently switched to some open source something search that I've had some success with. I feel like I might end up right now going the coggy direction. It does kind of hurt my brain paying for search, but at the same time not paying for search kind of hurts my brain a little bit because again, the whole like, if you're not paying, are you the product? I don't know if there's other alternatives outside of Kagi. Kagi was just recommended to me by. I don't know if he wants the fact that he recommended it public. So I'll just say a buddy. So I've been enjoying it so far. I don't have a ton of experience with it. It's not. Duckduckgo. Waterfox has been using something else. I got a notification saying like, oh, we're going to start using this whatever search engine. And it's, it's actually been pretty good inside of there. But I have personally found like the best quality search. And this is not, this is not a comprehensive review of all the different search engines. Whatever. Relax. Quant. That's it? Yeah. Q, W, A, N T, Q. Quant. That's the one that Waterfox has switched to. Quant search. And to be clear, I know nothing about this, but the search engine that values you is a user, not a product. Yo. Hooray. Cool. Okay, I need to look up.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Whoa. Okay, well, it managed to. It managed to find one of the. Oh my God, this roundup commercial again. Sakes. It managed to find the 10 year ago one, but not the 12 year ago one and not the 3 year ago one. That's better than YouTube search.

[Linus Sebastian]

So quant I looked up, how does quant make money? It's in their faq. Quant is a free search engine open to anyone. Our main source of revenues comes from ads displayed in quant result pages. Therefore, every ad that quant displays fully adheres to the values we defend and our quality standards. Blah, blah, blah. News. Quant. No personal information whatsoever is neither captured or transmitted to advertisers in details. No third party cookies, no track errors, no behavioral targeting, et cetera. So I suspect a lot of people watching this might align with quant faster than they would align with current Google search. And I've actually had pretty Good luck with the results from Quant. I'm kind of on the side of I've been actually enjoying Kagi because of the lack of those ads. It's. It's pretty nice. I. I've been a YouTube Premium user for a long time. I was trying to watch something with somebody the other day and we were skipping through a few YouTube videos and it was on their phone and they did not have YouTube Premium. And I was like, I don't know how you survive. Like watching tons of ads all the time drives me freaking insane. And I think I'm just really not down with the amount of ads that are everywhere. And if I can pay YouTube Premium to have no interruptions, maybe I'll do that. If I can pay for COGI to not get ads in my search results, maybe I'll do that.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Quant actually did pretty well. I've been evaluating that search result, so pretty happy with. This is the one from 10 years ago. This is returning our channel, which is pretty reasonable for a search that starts with the channel name. This is the forum thread for the one from three years ago. This is another page of that same thread. Reasonable enough. Here's Watchplex TV Season 2016 Episode 64 I didn't even know this was a thing. Like I know Colton was working on like free ad supported. What is it fast? So free ad supported television. I didn't even know this was a thing, but apparently that's a thing. Anyway, it found that and then here it found a Reddit thread that got the one from 12 years ago. So it managed in the first six or so results to surface every video in some way about low end GPUs suck from LTT. Whereas I was really struggling earlier with, with Google and with YouTube search.

[Linus Sebastian]

So again, this is not. This is not a comprehensive thing on search engines.

[Dan]

No, not at all.

[Linus Sebastian]

Quant. Just because I happened to install Waterfox and Waterfox was like, hey, we're using quant. And I was like, what the heck is quant? And then I did a few searches and I was like, hey, Quant is pretty good right now. I would rank Quant above Google search just by default. And Quant is free. So I mean I would just do that automatically. And then if you want to be a super premium boy, maybe you go the COGI search direction and pay and then just not have any of the ads which I'm currently leaning towards. I think it seems pretty sweet. But Quant, you never know how long these things will last.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Seems to be a cycle right now.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. DuckDuckGo was the thing for years. And then, I don't know necessarily, someone asked in chat, like, why doesn't DuckDuckGo get recommended as much these days? I don't remember what happened. I feel like we talked about on wave show like a hot minute ago. But yeah, they're just not recommended as much. I don't know what it was. Yeah. Quant.com. good stuff.

[Dan]

Okay. More.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yes, Dan.

[Dan]

Hello, sir. Danlott and company. You are passionate about your jobs. What keeps you engaged and coming back for the long days? Thanks for the cables and threads.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I feel like I've answered this enough times. I can let you guys go.

[Linus Sebastian]

There's a. There's an old meme. I don't want peace. I want problems.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Well, we got those.

[Linus Sebastian]

I think that's part of it. I don't want to just sit at home and do nothing. I want to work on stuff. I want to try to make things better. And also the people, I really like my teams. I like working with the people I work with, and I would like to try to keep working with them best I can. And then in order to do that, you need to try to create an environment that is, you know, cohesive with that. So. Yeah, I don't know. I think I've, you know, there's been topics of conversation with my parents recently about what, like, what does retiring look like? And I've had this question to myself for a long time. Not that I'm anywhere close, but, like, what would I want my retirement to look like? And I. There's. There's a. There's a bunch of different versions of it. One that I really like is like an inverse week. And I don't remember whose idea this was. I think it was my mom's, but where you. You work two days.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

And you have five days off. So your. Your weekend is when you work now, and then your entire week is off because, you know, the.

[Luke Lafreniere]

All.

[Linus Sebastian]

The weekend always feels so short. It's like, okay, well, now the work week is super short. You have these, like, really long weekends. I think it's kind of a cool, cool way of, like, retiring, because I really think it's. It's good cognitively to keep active and stuff. Right.

[Luke Lafreniere]

But you have to know what day of the week it is, you know?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, I think that's actually pretty important. Yeah. But then do I need to do minimum 40 hours every week for the entire rest of my entire life?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, maybe not that. Seems like if you could avoid it, be Nice not to.

[Linus Sebastian]

The other idea I've heard of that sounds pretty cool is the, like, seasonal focus. But maybe I work fully, work like three months of the year and then I take nine months off.

[Luke Lafreniere]

That'd be tougher to schedule though, because, like, inverse work week is like, yeah, you could have a part time job where you work weekends and you know, everyone else who doesn't want to work on the weekend. Easy. We'll have Luke do it. Right. Whereas, like, yeah, you know, I'm thinking, yeah, maybe October, November, December, I'll come in this year and then see you later for nine months. Like, that seems like a tougher conversation.

[Linus Sebastian]

There are some places like, you know, BC this doesn't happen enough. But I used to know a guy I played games with a long time ago who would do landscaping in the warm months.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay.

[Linus Sebastian]

And we do snow plowing in the cold months.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Well, I don't think you're gonna do landscaping, but sure. Don't go on.

[Linus Sebastian]

But I think you could. I think you could snowplow.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Some kind of seasonal work, though.

[Linus Sebastian]

There are. There are some routinely seasonal jobs.

[Dan]

Okay. Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

I don't know how relevant this is with online shopping, but I remember when I was growing up, you could get a job in high school in the summer or in the, like, holiday season. Not the summer at all. In the holiday season at retail stores, because they, you know, stores would just sell way more stuff. So they would, they would hire seasonal employees.

[Luke Lafreniere]

No, there's still seasonality to retail.

[Dan]

For sure.

[Linus Sebastian]

No, for sure. I just don't know. How much?

[Luke Lafreniere]

A lot.

[Linus Sebastian]

How many more? Okay.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, yeah. Definitely. Still a thing.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. That was my first entrance into Best Buy. I started as seasonal Ludwig the Mad.

[Luke Lafreniere]

They kept me on posts. Ski instructors are often also river rafting instructors.

[Linus Sebastian]

That actually, honestly makes sense.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So you ski on the snow until it melts and then you raft on the snow.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, that's an interesting idea. I think there's a variety of interesting ideas. Someone said freelancing. I think for me the problem with something like freelancing is maybe if you've like, absolutely made a name for yourself and then you can get work easily. But if you're not super active in the freelancing space, like, that might not be the easiest thing to keep doing.

[Dan]

No.

[Linus Sebastian]

When you're only doing it two days

[Luke Lafreniere]

a week, people's memories are very short and like, people expect communication.

[Linus Sebastian]

That too.

[Luke Lafreniere]

You can't just be like five days of radio silence in the modern era come On.

[Linus Sebastian]

I mean if you're super famous in a space you might be able to demand the patience or whatever.

[Luke Lafreniere]

But like anyone else.

[Linus Sebastian]

That's tough. Yeah, that's tough. I think, I think that's tough. Been a board of directors going to politics. Politics. I don't know if I'm made of the right metal for that world.

[Luke Lafreniere]

No. But I think that's the problem. Right. Is the kinds of people who are attracted. Attracted to politics are generally not the kinds that we want involved in it.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So, you know, maybe you should just do it anyway.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, I, I do think there's, there is a variety of options though. I think, I mean I would at that point in time I would see volunteering routinely and at a place that had like fixed goals and, and whatnot. Like it, it would need to be a fairly serious position of volunteer. But I could see you finding some form of non profit where you're contributing quite heavily in your effort.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, I think that'd be fun.

[Linus Sebastian]

And you're working two days a week or something as, as the same level of applicable thing. You need something external to yourself that you could pour a lot of care into that needs it and takes effort and has problems and has problems that are naturally created and are important and impactful to overcome. Where all of those things are important to keep the brain juices flowing.

[Luke Lafreniere]

We're wired so hard to care about things that we invest our own time and our own energy in. And the more time and energy we invest in them, the more we care about them. It's like you can fight it, but it's there.

[Linus Sebastian]

I talked about this, I think on the last WAN show, but Emma and I have been doing this thing where at night we'll go for a walk and we walk around this really nice park and there's chess tables at the park and we've tied bags to the chess tables and put chess sets inside the bags. And at night we'll go by and I'll set the chess pieces back up and we'll make sure that they're all there and if they're not there we'll will fill the chess pieces back in. One of the thought processes that got us to do this because the, the park never provided the chess pieces because obviously people are going to steal them or lose them and then they'll be gone forever. So it's impossible. But you still want to put a chess table there. But it's such a classic problem. I, I've genuinely seen this a bunch of times where like play areas or Parks will have chess tables. Or one I've seen too is like the chess thing where it's on the floor. It's like painted on the floor and it's huge. As if you had like people sized chess pieces. As if anyone's ever actually really going to engage with that properly. So I was like, man.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Actually there's one at the Fraser Heights Rec center that is like a giant chess set that people do.

[Linus Sebastian]

They actually have the set there.

[Luke Lafreniere]

They actually have it. And it's amazing.

[Linus Sebastian]

Outdoors.

[Dan]

No, I've seen one outdoors and you have to go and like request them from the office and they give you like one of those little garbage picker upper things. You can grab the pieces by the neck and move them around.

[Luke Lafreniere]

But that's pretty cool.

[Linus Sebastian]

But that could work. I could see that working supervised.

[Dan]

So you can't.

[Linus Sebastian]

This. Yeah. This place doesn't have an office.

[Dan]

All right.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So like, it's not going to carry on.

[Linus Sebastian]

But anyways. Yeah. We tie the chess pieces there. They're there. We go by every night just to make sure. The first couple days there were a few minor problems. We've had some really cool moments where like we lost a bishop, for example, and we couldn't find it in the dirt or anything.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Did you ask the cardinal where he went?

[Linus Sebastian]

So we, we replaced the bishop with one of the ones that we had in the bag and we went home. And then we come back the next day and we check all the pieces and there's an extra bishop. Nice. So someone.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Faith in faith in humanity restored.

[Linus Sebastian]

It's actually, it's actually been fascinating. Like the very first day, some kids tried to steal the bag and then Emma caught them because she had just put it there.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

And gave them a little like, don't do that. And they're like, oh, it's my friends. And they're like. She's like, no, it's not. And then. But then after that day, no one seems to have tried to steal them. And they've basically just been, you know, probably some little kid accidentally hit them and they went flying and there's. There's some dirt near it. So the. Especially the black pieces just kind of get lost in there, whatever. But like, it's been pretty consistent. And a big part of the idea that spawned this is. That was super old. I think it's Chinese or whatever. It's the. You should plant trees. You'll never sit in the shade of.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Part of the idea is that we don't. We do it at night. We're replacing the pieces. When nobody's there, nobody knows this is us.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Right?

[Linus Sebastian]

We're just trying to make the park better. I've never actually played chess at those tables, to be honest. I basically only play chess on my phone. Whenever I play chess over the board, it feels very strange. So I'm just used to seeing it digitally. But it's like, I want to do more stuff like that. I don't know what opportunities there are for that, but I want to try to do more stuff like that because it's really cool.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I mean, never forget that what you do here is very important for that. I got this message today, which is pretty much. Pretty much made my day. Dear Linus. Hi. I know you'll probably never read this, but I wanted to thank you for the role you've played in my career. One of the first videos I've ever watched from you was when you unboxed a quantum computer at D Wave for Holy sh T. Well, that was cool. Last week was my first day as an intern at D Wave. I'm currently working on multicolor annealing, their most cutting edge qubit control technology. And I'm really excited for where this industry is going. Without you and your team, I would not have had as much passion for technology as I do now, let alone even know what a D Wave was. Thank you so much. Like, that's. I'm gonna. I'm gonna send that to hr. I'm gonna have them print it and put it on the fridges and stuff. Because I think that. I think that a lot of the time it's really easy for us around here to forget. Like I always say it. I'm like, our job is to go around and start little fires, and if even a handful of them burn, then. Then we've succeeded. Right. But we have so little visibility. Like. Like your chess sets, you don't see who's playing with them. You don't actually know.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. Just to jump in. One of the things that's really cool about doing it at night, too, is we always have this question of, like, is anyone even playing with them?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Every single day the bags are mixed up.

[Luke Lafreniere]

That's cool.

[Linus Sebastian]

And you'd think it's like, a little bit annoying because I have to reset the bags and, like, sort everything out, but it's actually just amazing.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Because every single day, I mean, it's not like, you know, one person played with at one time. It probably got played with a bunch. And that is how they ended up getting mixed up. And it's just. I Don't know. It's cool. I, I've been thinking, I want to do like some, you know, I'm doing pretty well for myself. I want to do some type of like, budget of sorts because I'm so happy with this chess thing we've been doing of like, you know, a yearly or monthly thing where we try to like, do something like that, where we just try to improve the community in some way. Some tiny little, tiny little way.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I mean, you don't.

[Linus Sebastian]

Small stuff, genuinely small stuff.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Every day someone is touching grass, getting some cognitive exercise and interacting with another human being. That is, you have no idea what that might snowball into compared to what they could have been doing in that time.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. And then realistically, like, yeah, it's small.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Like, you talk about how small it is, but I, I guess what I'm trying to say is, like, I don't think random acts of kindness are ever small.

[Linus Sebastian]

But I think that's why I want it to be small. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I do recognize that too, but I think it's why I want it to be small is because I want to do the stuff that I think like a large organization, like a government or a huge charity or whatever would never think of because it's a 15 cheapo Amazon chess set.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, it's.

[Linus Sebastian]

Whatever. There's no way you people aren't even taking the pieces. Sorry.

[Luke Lafreniere]

There's no way. You bought it on Amazon, I think.

[Linus Sebastian]

Well, Emma bought it.

[Luke Lafreniere]

All right. Okay.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. I did not.

[Luke Lafreniere]

You know what? It still counts. It still counts. Still making the world a little better.

[Linus Sebastian]

I was thinking about being able to get away from that by, by 3D printing them or something.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah, right.

[Linus Sebastian]

I, I, I'm not stoked on that part, but it is what it is. It's, but it's like that plus the combination of the fact that people aren't taking them.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Is like this was effectively a thirty dollar investment. And it's been like, incredible, man. Like, I just, I don't know, it's been, it's been super. It's been very fulfilling. Selfishly, it has made me feel very good. So it's like, you know, it's funny. 30 bucks. Like, dude, absolutely.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I have, I have met people that take that to a toxic level where, like, their whole, like, it gets to the point where the charity they do is all about being the best at charity and that's their, like, whole identity. To be clear, I'm not saying you're anywhere near that.

[Linus Sebastian]

I'm just saying I'm sure I can imagine the person growing up in the church, you.

[Luke Lafreniere]

You find some of those people where the whole point of it is how much more Jesus loves them than anyone else. And it's just like, oh, man. Dude, it's not about that. For crying out loud.

[Linus Sebastian]

It's actually, I think, like, very not about that.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. Not the point.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Anyway, hit us up, Dan.

[Dan]

Happy Friday, Dan. Luke and Linus. Why does the future keep being worse than we were promised instead of better?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Sad face. Let's turn it up. I blame the Internet. I think. I think to a degree, the connectivity and the communication and the interaction online has turbocharged our process, our. Our progress. I also think that it has turbocharged our worst. In our worst instincts and our ability to harm each other. I think that it has amplified everything that's great about humanity and at the same time amplified everything that's bad. And unfortunately, cancer grows faster than healthy cells. And I think we're. We're reaching the point where that is becoming. It's. It's hitting, like, a tipping point of being extremely problematic there. That's my. You asked. That's the only reason I'm talking about it.

[Dan]

Hello, Dune, Lunis and Lake.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Apparently, I'm the only one who's going to answer that. Sure, fine.

[Dan]

Oh, sorry. Was Luke going to butt in?

[Linus Sebastian]

Honestly, I was so focused on Linus's answer. I don't remember the core question at the beginning.

[Dan]

Why is everything garbage now?

[Linus Sebastian]

And, I mean, the Internet was a really good answer.

[Dan]

I think it's. People aren't like Luke, and they're not giving people.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, my God, no. If we had more of that.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I think it's the one thing we should do. A new shirt, Be more like Luke. I'll wear it.

[Dan]

Stuff that he does.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I still wear my Luke Newcomb shirt very regularly. It's like one of my weekend shirts.

[Linus Sebastian]

I've seen you wear it before.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I. Oh, yeah. I ran into you at Bubble World and I was wearing it. Right?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Linus Sebastian]

Nice. Yeah. Bubble World is great. Crap. What was I going to say? Yeah, I think it's. I think it's not. I mean, this is so true for so many things. It's not inherently the Internet. It's what the Internet has kind of become. Like, the. I remember the. My first foray onto the Internet, it was so much goodness. There was pretty much always bad stuff on the Internet, but there was so much goodness. And now with, like, the mass commercialization, with the amount of insane amounts of money being poured into trying to Control your brain as much as they possibly can with infinite scrolling and physical addiction to hand movement and, you know, maximizing humanity's constant draw towards anger and hatred and how that has killed a lot of journalism, to be completely honest. And how we're, I mean, we talked earlier in the show about how even what remains of good information on the Internet is rotting away because of AI

[Luke Lafreniere]

generated articles and the erosion of trust in experts, which is a. Has been a fascinating one for me to, to watch. Like I, I believe my dentist when they tell me, when she tells me about something about teeth and that's like, not to be taken for granted anymore. I believe my doctor when she tells me about a vaccine or about a treatment. And it's like, that doesn't mean that she's perfect or whatever, or that she'll always get it right. But like, in general, I'm, I'm asking her. Not a podcaster. And that's not to be taken for granted anymore. And it's been wild for me to watch that in my lifetime. Jay Shmead says I miss good news. When. Okay, okay, we'll bring it back a little more good news next week. Sorry, you guys.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, yeah, there was some bad parts earlier in the show, but this was, this was a question which, you know,

[Luke Lafreniere]

not much we can do about that.

[Dan]

We're doing.

[Linus Sebastian]

We can. But yeah, I think, I think I'll still say the Internet, but I'll say what the Internet became, not necessarily how it started.

[Dan]

Okay. Hello, Dune, Lunison Lake. What if your whole game was your NFT that you could buy and resell on a marketplace like an online GameStop? Would this help the ownership problem that we are facing?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, I'm gonna let you finish, but why does it have to be an nft?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, what?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, no, no, no, I understand what they're saying. Basically they're asking for a transferable digital license. It doesn't have to be an nft. And there's no way that, you know, the Microsofts and Sonys of the world would, would allow it to be managed off, you know, their own authentication chain, so to speak. But no, I mean, if, if a digital asset was transferable. Yeah, sure, if a digital asset was, was tracked and transferable in a central location versus a decentralized or whatever, I don't think that matters. And yeah, would totally help the ownership problem we're facing, but it also sort of wouldn't because you still wouldn't own the zeros and the ones that would still be inactive without a central authentication Server, at least in the current sort of way of things working. So I kind of talked around it. But yes, but also no. But also yes, kind of. But also no, not really. Does that make sense?

[Dan]

Last one I've got for you today. Hello, Linus, Luke and Dan love the DMS home theater video. This one is mostly for Luke. When is a non essential tool or tech purchase worth it? Just because it makes life easier?

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, makes life easier if you can afford it. Often.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I think they kind of answered their own question.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, if it genuinely makes life easier. Yeah. Sick. I mean, I've done a bunch of that. I mean a guilty. A guilty purchase that I have. Would I say that I have an eight sleep? I don't recommend an eight sleep because of a variety of things we've talked about on Wednesday show very extensively. So I'm not going to go over everything again. But it makes my life easier when it's. When it's not set up, I am sad and I don't sleep as well. And when it is set up, I am happier and I sleep better. That's. Yeah, that thing was expensive as hell.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yeah. And deeply problematic.

[Linus Sebastian]

And very deeply problematic. I don't think I'd buy another one. I would search for alternatives immediately though, because it's like they're pretty sick. Yeah. I don't know.

[Dan]

Making

[Linus Sebastian]

making life easier is a pretty strong reason to buy something. To be honest. You maybe you made it sound like it's like so minor.

[Dan]

That's why you should buy something.

[Linus Sebastian]

That's like what it's all about, man. You just, you just gotta make sure you can afford those things.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Like if you ask Luke, like, when can I justify a plastic doodad? You know, he'll be like, never put away your wallet, brother. But when can I justify something that makes my life easier? It's like, yeah, you're not going to get a lot of pushback around here.

[Dan]

$20,000, $40,000. You're worth it, sister.

[Linus Sebastian]

I'm even like, again, people call me cheap, man. But like, if you can buy like there's some expensive things where, like if it's a, if it's. I don't know, like, my grandpa used to talk about boots all the time.

[Dan]

Yeah. Boots theory is pretty, pretty traditional where

[Linus Sebastian]

he's like, you know, buy a good pair of shoes. Buy a really good pair of shoes. Because, you know, not only should they be comfortable, but you also want them to last for a long time and yada, yada, yada, it goes into all these different things. Like Have a good pair of shoes. Don't cheap out on your shoes. Buy, like expensive. But he doesn't mean expensive. Go buy Louis Vuitton thingies with the red bottoms or whatever. He means like, buy a good quality, well constructed pair of boots or shoes.

[Luke Lafreniere]

You know what's really funny is I leaned really heavily on. What is it? Sam Vimes. Yeah, I leaned really heavily on that. For the launch video for our socks.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I was talking about how, like, being able to afford better socks up front was saving me overall on socks. Back when the. The champion ones that I used to get at Costco became inside.

[Linus Sebastian]

People are calling me out because I have ratty shoes. I do have ratty shoes, but those are the most.

[Luke Lafreniere]

That's a whole thing.

[Linus Sebastian]

You can't rebuy them. Yeah, they're. I.

[Luke Lafreniere]

He would buy 10 of them today if he could. It's not a question of whether he'd spend the money. It's.

[Linus Sebastian]

I was quite genuinely on ebay last week trying to find more of them.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Yep.

[Linus Sebastian]

Because they're. They're not new. You can't buy them. I have a newer pair of shoes. I do wear them. I find them very annoying in a variety of ways. And I often go back to my older ones because they are significantly more comfortable.

[Luke Lafreniere]

So really what it comes down to is Luke wouldn't mind buying things, but nobody builds anything that lives up to his standards.

[Linus Sebastian]

Oh, yeah. Yes. I'm just. I'm just too discerning.

[Luke Lafreniere]

He'd rather buy. He'd rather own nothing and be happy than buy something inadequate, something lesser.

[Dan]

I think that's.

[Linus Sebastian]

To be completely honest, that is often kind of true.

[Luke Lafreniere]

I know, dude. I was like 8% joking. Like.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, yeah. It's like a little bit joking, but it's not that much. That is. That is. That is pretty real. I would, I would. I'm pretty happy buying, like a coin quality craftsman, whatever nice thing that I can keep basically forever. If I have to buy something that's junk, I'd really rather not. I'd really rather like. Okay, can I, like, rent this thing or borrow this thing?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Always. Go ahead, Dan. Sorry.

[Dan]

Yeah. The other nice thing is the. Generally, the more expensive or high quality something is, the more repairable it becomes.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yep.

[Dan]

They're easier to service. There's more parts available.

[Linus Sebastian]

Not a rule that always works. It is a rule that sometimes works.

[Dan]

Never a rule. Like washing machines. You get industrial stuff. We were talking about this. You were looking for a fridge or something like that. I was like, there's a There is a repairable fridge that will last for 400 years. It's probably $40,000. Yeah, they exist. You just probably can't afford them.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, I found this. Our washer and dryer was having issues and it's just. It's fine right now. So I'm no longer in the market, but I was trying to find like. Okay, what's a very reputable, high quality repairable washer and dryer? Nope. They do exist.

[Dan]

Oh yeah, they do.

[Luke Lafreniere]

How much you want to spend, though?

[Linus Sebastian]

It's a lot of money.

[Dan]

And I'll tell you, working on them,

[Linus Sebastian]

it's a lot of money.

[Dan]

A dream. They're like you undo two screws and then you pull the thing out and all the circuit boards like fold down and lock. And all the wires are long enough so you can get the whole thing. And the company support is amazing. And they'll just.

[Linus Sebastian]

Tons of people in chat.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Speed queen. Yeah, I'm looking this up.

[Linus Sebastian]

Sorry, Dan. I was listening. I just know.

[Dan]

Totally. I'm just rambling.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Built better to last longer.

[Dan]

They do exist.

[Linus Sebastian]

I didn't even say the name of the brand. And like four people got it in a row and no one said any other brand. Okay, but. Okay, scroll all the way down.

[Luke Lafreniere]

No, all the way down.

[Linus Sebastian]

Because I'm in. I'm in a condo. I need vertical stacking units. So let's go all the way down.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, all the way down. Stacked washer dryers. Okay, so I mean. Okay, so these are dogs for scale, but then also sometimes a cat. Oh, these are just different colors. Anyway, so let's go electric. Electric.

[Dan]

No, I think.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay. Only four stars, I guess. Depends on what people are expecting from. Is this. Is this US Dollars? Probably.

[Dan]

That's actually less than.

[Luke Lafreniere]

That's less than I thought.

[Dan]

Yeah. Oh, I mean, is this a dose?

[Luke Lafreniere]

This is still about double what you would pay for like a regular one. Double to triple.

[Dan]

Mine was made in 1970, so it's gonna outlast me.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Nice.

[Dan]

So yeah, I don't know. Doesn't have anything electronic in it.

[Linus Sebastian]

I also don't know. 100%. Like, is the. Is the stacked. Are the stacked versions of as high regard as the individual units or whatever?

[Dan]

Get a front loader ever?

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah. And this is a front loader.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Wait, these top loads are not even like that bad. Here's their top load washer. It's like 1600 bucks.

[Linus Sebastian]

It's American. I don't think they sell them in Canada. You'd have to import it. So you're saying Paying duties and everything else on top of it. I'm fairly certain they're not in Canada. They might be, but I don't think so.

[Luke Lafreniere]

You must allow functional cookies. Okay. Functional cookies confirm my choice.

[Linus Sebastian]

No, you aren't looking at the good one. What's the good one then?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, what's the good one? Well, why do they. Why do even these guys have a bad one? Yeah, that's the TR7. That's the, like. That was the one on the far left.

[Linus Sebastian]

I don't 100% know if I,

[Dan]

you

[Luke Lafreniere]

know, like, higher number, more better, right?

[Linus Sebastian]

I mean, I think so.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Am I missing something here? Okay, TR3. No, that's like the same price.

[Linus Sebastian]

Yeah, Ross, I think people just import them.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Surfin. Sam asks, hey, Dan, why never get a front loader just because they leak? Right.

[Dan]

And if there's a problem and it's full of water and the drain is broken where the pump goes very traditionally on a washer. Now it's full of water. What do you do?

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, I see.

[Dan]

Get a bucket in there or a wet dry vac and suck it all out. It's not a good idea.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Got it.

[Dan]

Not a good idea. There's a. There's a brand that we used to work with a bunch. They're called Splendid. They're very expensive. They were like compact spaces. So it's a washer dryer combo. But it doesn't have an exhaust hose. So you can put it like in a cupboard because it recondenses the like dryer exhaust. And so you can fit them in like a space. That's the size of it.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Oh, this is like for boats or something, right?

[Dan]

Yeah, but I mean, they're in. They're in like the domestic places too. But they're like really high end.

[Luke Lafreniere]

That's crazy.

[Dan]

Splendid. S, P L, E N D I D E. Splendide.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Splendid laundry centers designed to fit where others won't. I don't know what accent that's supposed to be. Don't worry about it.

[Linus Sebastian]

Well, I mean, they are your great.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Okay, that's probably not how I would

[Dan]

do it, but sure.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Our collection. Premium detergent vented combo compact washer.

[Dan]

All right.

[Luke Lafreniere]

Most reliable. Okay. Whoops. That was a mistake. All right.

[Linus Sebastian]

Anyways, we can probably stop talking about washers and dryers.

[Dan]

Yeah, sorry.

[Luke Lafreniere]

We can stop talking about everything. We'll see you again next week, guys. Same bad time, same bad channel.

[Linus Sebastian]

Bye. So, sudden conversation over.

[Luke Lafreniere]

This was a nice visit. Get the out of my head, house.

[Dan]

All right, everybody watching.