The Watch – ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Hype With Mallory Rubin. Plus, Doug Dulgarian of They Are Gutting a Body of Water

Date: October 17, 2025
Hosts: Chris Ryan (The Ringer), Guest: Mallory Rubin
Special Guest (Interview): Doug Dulgarian, They Are Gutting a Body of Water

Episode Summary

This episode of The Watch is a two-part special. First, Chris Ryan sits down with Mallory Rubin for a vibrant conversation celebrating and dissecting the upcoming HBO series A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. Their discussion blends deep fandom, TV industry analysis, and playful banter, focusing on the potential, tone, and significance of this Game of Thrones prequel. In the second half, Chris interviews Doug Dulgarian of Philadelphia band They Are Gutting a Body of Water, diving into the band’s fresh new album “Lotto,” the creative process, and Philly’s formative influence.

Part 1: ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Hype (with Mallory Rubin)

Main Theme

A celebration and exploration of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, the highly anticipated HBO adaptation of George R.R. Martin's “Dunk and Egg” novellas, what it brings to the Game of Thrones universe, and what sets it apart from previous installments.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Banter and Fandom Roots

• Mallory gushes about her love for The Watch:
  • “You know, this is my favorite podcast. It is. And I don't mind saying it. We're not supposed to have favorites, but I do.” (02:55)
• Both hosts reminisce about their travel routines, TV habits, and the deep connection with Thrones fandom.
• Quick note: Mallory corrects Chris’ (playfully exaggerated) claim about the runtime of her podcast's trailer analysis:

  “As you primed me for mere moments ago. 2 hours and 46 minutes, not 3 hours. You're an editor. You should be precise.” (04:24)

The Show’s Source Material and Adaptation Approach

• A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms adapts the “Dunk and Egg” tales—a novella trilogy (unfinished, promises of more exist).

• Mallory contextualizes the source:

  “This is the adaptation of the Dunk and Egg novellas, also packaged together and called A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. … There are three novellas that have been published, but promises of more to come.” (07:04)

• She notes the strength of “The Hedge Knight” (season one’s likely focus) as both intimate and majestic, centered on a single grand tournament.

• Chris expresses excitement at the show’s scope and authenticity:

  “It looks like we are returning to that huge tapestry that Game of Thrones at its early season best was able to build, where you're just like, look at that guy. Look at that guy. Like, what's he doing back there? So that was really neat.” (05:57)

Creative Team, Structure, and Freshness

• Ira Parker (showrunner) is credited with deep love and understanding for the source material.

• Show format: Six half-hour episodes, directed by Owen Harris and Sarah Dena Smith.

• Chris argues the shorter, focused format is a genius move:

  “This is the perfect time and the perfect, like, way to see if you can still ... the execution of it is like … an antidote to, like, the heaviness of House of the Dragon.” (10:16)

• Mallory stresses the importance of different “entry points”:

  “You've gotta have different kinds of looks for people and different entry points. And I think like having a six episode, 30 minute ... I think like, having a six episode, 30 minute, hey, it's not that much of an investment. You don't know these people, but you will ... is really, really smart.” (12:29)

Tone: Magic, Dragons, and Accessible Fantasy

• The series is billed as being “pre-magic” and “pre-dragons” in Westerosi history.
• Mallory clarifies:

  “I don't think I have not perceived this at all as like, there's no magic. So don't worry. This isn't like nerdy fantasy stuff. ... I think it's like we're trying to convey and establish where we are in the history of the realm ... this kind of Arthurian swords and shields.” (15:29)

• Chris is excited by this grounded approach:

  “I think for the same reason ... I'm hoping that there are no dragons in the show. I think the dragons are supposed to be gone by now, right?” (15:29)

Characters: Dunk, Egg, and Westerosi Nobility

• Dunk (Ser Duncan the Tall) and Egg (the young Aegon Targaryen) are clarified for new viewers.
• Mallory drops lore teases and her favorite tidbits:

  “There's a blonde kid in it.”
  “The trailer debut of ... Finn Bennett as Aryan Targaryen—the bright prince, Aryan Bright Flame. One of my most anticipated pages.” (19:55–20:09)

• The show provides plenty of "on the ground" storytelling while showing glimpses of familiar noble families and sigils:

  “But the thing that you're describing and that journey and that arc and that spirit of possibility and discovery, … that's certainly the flavor here. But like, yeah, you will see the Targaryens in the story and people should expect that.” (21:08–21:21)

Comparisons and Franchise Evolution

• Chris compares the fresh start to the early, “hungry for power” stretch of Game of Thrones, calling it his favorite part of the original series (18:54–19:19).
• Both hosts draw parallels to Star Wars and Andor (“Not about the Force, but about people on a journey”), linking the emotional impact of following fresh, striving characters rather than established icons (17:16–18:26).
• Mallory frames the series as an accessible “amuse-bouche” for deeper engagement with the Thrones universe.

Anticipation for New Content

• Both are excited that two Thrones series (House of the Dragon and A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms) will air in the same year.
• Chris:

  “I'm way more excited about Dunk and Egg ... I mean, I love working with you guys, but I would be way more excited about doing [that show].” (21:44)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Dunk and Egg’s broad appeal:
  Mallory: “I think it's going to be a very welcoming space for anybody, no matter what your relationship is to the story or the characters… It is the easiest [onboarding].” (08:40–09:24)
• On the genre shift:
  “This is going to be ... Arthurian swords and shields. Like, I am on an adventure and seeking to discover something about who I am and what I believe in.” – Mallory Rubin (15:19)
• On franchise fatigue and variety:
  Chris: “If you want to keep this going as ... a viable vein to mine, you've gotta have different, different kinds of looks for people and different entry points.” (12:28)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Banter and Thrones nostalgia: 01:25–04:19
• Trailer runtime correction and adaptation context: 04:24–08:01
• Explaining Dunk & Egg, tone, adaptation: 07:04–09:54
• Format, creative strategy, and episode length: 09:54–12:44
• Magic, dragons, and Arthurian flavor: 15:05–18:26
• Character focus and lore discussion: 19:18–21:21

Part 2: “Task” on HBO, Performance Analysis & TV’s Best of the Year

Main Theme

Mallory and Chris dive into HBO’s critically acclaimed drama “Task,” reflecting on standout performances, emotional resonance, and what makes the series one of TV’s best in 2025.

Key Discussion Points

Standout Performances

• Both are blown away by Fabian Frankel’s performance, and the chemistry between Grasso and Lizzie (“wallop of watching what developed in real time”) (23:26–24:37).
• Mallory highlights Tom Pelfrey and Mark Ruffalo, praising the entire cast’s unexpected depth.
• The emotional resonance catches both off guard, touching on family, hope, grace, and the messy realities of life—well beyond mere crime story tropes.

Themes: Grace, Hope, and Depth

• Mallory:

  “The thing that I, I think that it's ultimately about is like, this is a show about grace. Yeah. And what grace are you able to find for other people and grant to other people, but like, really what are you able to grant to yourself?” (26:53)

• The show’s use of recurring motifs (birds as metaphor) and avoiding genre cliche—“No characters wasted. … Because we've spent just those extra couple of scenes with her, she goes from being someone who's in the background to someone who is now in the foreground.” (27:44–34:35)
• Chris and Mallory agree: it’s a “beautiful show,” a “special little diamond” that uses crime as a vehicle for profound human questions.

TV’s Best in 2025

• Both discuss personal favorites for TV of the year—Task, Andor, Shorzy, The Bear, Adolescence, The Pit, Severance, The Last of Us.
• Mallory:

  “That's the great magic trick of genre storytelling. Like, that's what genre storytelling at its best does. It simultaneously transports you to a world that is not yours ... and unlocks something about your ability to think about and understand your own life.” (38:04)

Notable Quotes

• On “Task”’s message:

  “The message feels so established already. I think that the fact that the show is so heavy and really, like, rooted in despair and a feeling of, like, hopelessness. But then I. I find it to be so hopeful as well.” – Mallory Rubin (32:27)

• On storytelling chops:

  “There's no characters wasted.” – Chris Ryan (27:41)

Timestamps

• Introduction to Task & HBO crime storytelling: 22:00–22:33
• Discussion of performances: 22:50–24:37
• Themes of grace, hope, forgiveness: 26:53–29:00
• TV’s best shows and emotional resonance: 36:02–38:04

Part 3: Interview – Doug Dulgarian of They Are Gutting a Body of Water

Main Theme

Chris Ryan interviews Doug Dulgarian—frontman of Philadelphia’s They Are Gutting a Body of Water—about the band’s new album Lotto, Philly's influence, genre-blending, and the tension between musical experimentation and authenticity.

Key Discussion Points

Philadelphia Identity

• Doug is not Philly-born but describes “falling in love” with the city and being inevitably shaped by it (“It’s kind of like an infectious thing that I think happens to you, whether you want it to or not”). (44:16)

Musical Influences and Monoculture

• Doug’s musical background: Raised on hip-hop, introduced to indie/experimental via his sibling, then gravitated to Boards of Canada, My Bloody Valentine, Fugazi.
• On the magic of the pre-digital monoculture vs. current internet “cacophony”:

  “There's something really magical about things that were just like a part of the zeitgeist.” (49:29)

Process and Sound of ‘Lotto’

• ‘Lotto’ represents the band playing “as a band” — more live, direct, and stripped back compared to previous experiments.

• Doug:

  “I think at the end of the day with this one, I was just like ... I just want to get back to the basics—what do we sound like?” (49:56)

• Aspires to create music that is “good” rather than boxed into “shoegaze” or “genre” labels.

Songwriting, Lyrics, and Sobriety

• Discusses the personal, direct lyricism on ‘Lotto,’ and how recovery from addiction shapes his songwriting.
• Doug is candid about the challenges and ambivalence of being so open lyrically:

  “It's weird when you first get clean, you tell everybody ... then years later, you get to this point where you're like, I don't need to tell my boss that I'm a junkie, you know what I mean? ... So it's weird to do all these interviews ... people are like, what's up, you junkie?” (61:13)

Track Highlights and Influences

• Discusses “Slow Cross Stick” (Fugazi homage), vocal layering inspiration from Pinback, and the Philly tribute that is “Basik.”
• On blending genres and moods:

  “Sometimes it happens where they just come together in a matter of hours, and you're just like, I'm done with it. This one's done. And it just feels right.” (62:44)

Notable Quotes

• On artistic cycles:

  “Things move in cycles, dude ... it's kind of like a revisitation of what it felt like to make Gestures, Ben.” (53:01)

• On the shift to lyric honesty:

  “A lot of the other stuff that I'm talking about on the other records is the same stuff, but it's like hidden beneath layers of noise.” (61:55)

• On Philly’s sound:

  “That's a Philly song ... if I was like, yo, what does Philadelphia sound like? ... and I think that song is just kind of a celebration of that.” (64:59)

Timestamps

• Philly influences & city love: 44:16–44:47
• On musical roots, influences: 45:46–47:33
• Process behind Lotto: 49:56–53:55
• Song breakdowns (standout tracks): 54:02–65:59
• On lyrics, recovery, and authenticity: 60:38–62:08

Overall Episode Flow & Takeaways

• Deep-dive on TV’s latest fantasy offering with the kind of tangible, infectious hype only real fans bring.
• Smart analysis of how new fantasy and legacy franchises can thrive with fresh voices, accessible stories, and respect for fans (old and new).
• An emotionally rich summing up of why “Task” is essential TV in 2025.
• Engaged, generous interview with one of indie rock’s most compelling modern bands, blending Philly pride, recovery honesty, and music-geek joy.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This is a must-hear episode if you want to understand what’s exciting about A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, why “Task” is breaking TV drama ground, and how underground music continues to innovate through artists like They Are Gutting a Body of Water. The episode is passionate, intelligent, and funny—an ideal example of The Watch’s deft touch with pop culture and deep dives alike.