‘Beef’ Is Back: Season 2, Episodes 1-5 and ‘Top Chef’ S23E7

Summary

The Watch – Episode Summary

Podcast: The Watch (The Ringer)
Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald
Episode Title: ‘Beef’ Is Back: Season 2, Episodes 1-5 and ‘Top Chef’ S23E7
Release Date: April 23, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald dive deep into the first five episodes of Beef Season 2, discussing its structure, themes, performances, and streaming context. They also recap and critique Top Chef Season 23, Episode 7, focusing on the Cracker Barrel challenge and the show's evolving cast dynamics. Throughout, their trademark mix of affection for pop culture minutiae and self-effacing humor shines—a perfect blend for longtime listeners and new fans alike.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Banter, News, and Table Setting

• Outfit Twins & Phillies Curse
  The hosts open in good spirits, joking about coincidentally wearing matching denim outfits, the Philadelphia Phillies' losing streak after Chris “cursed” them, and playful sports banter.
  [02:10]
  “Since you declared the baseball season is irrelevant until game 60, the Phillies have not won a game.” – Andy

• Mailbag & Engagement
  Announcement of an upcoming mailbag and encouragement for creative listener questions.
  [03:52]
  “I’m tired of being limited to, like, what are the five best prestige TV shows? Come on, ask us anything.” – Andy

• Media Crossover Musings
  Discussion of political figures crossing over into media and the blending of pop culture and punditry, referencing possible guest spots from politicians on other Ringer pods.
  [06:55]
  “The merging of these worlds…like a Matt Iglesias…this is all possible for you.” – Andy

• Michael Mann Universe & Miami Vice 85
  Excitement about Joseph Kosinski’s Miami Vice 85 project, casting rumors (Austin Butler as Sonny Crockett, Michael B. Jordan as Tubbs, possibly Tom Cruise as the villain), and reflections on the 1980s show’s generational pull.
  [08:10–09:18]
  “There’s a part of me that is as if not more excited for this than I am for Heat 2.” – Chris
  “Calling it Miami Vice 85 really seems like they’re going to be dialing in on the aesthetics of what already made America great.” – Andy

• Copland Series Announcement
  They welcome Paramount’s plan for a Copland series, highlighting how the concept could naturally expand into serial storytelling.
  [12:57]
  “Copland…one of my favorite crime dramas of that decade.” – Chris
  “A cop who has to police cops is a good logline for a TV show that lasts multiple seasons.” – Andy

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Beef Season 2, Episodes 1-5: In-Depth

General Praise & Key Takeaways

• Hosts’ Enthusiasm
  Both hosts are invested in the season, with Andy calling it potentially the “show of the year.”
  [20:17]
  “Call me Liver King the way I'm loving this beef. This may be my show of the year so far.” – Andy

• Sonny Lee (Lee Sung Jin) as TV Auteur
  Andy lauds Sonny’s ability to craft “sprawling but focused” narrative within a limited episode count, calling him “one of, if not the best example of a television auteur.”
  [21:00]

• Contemporary Digital Life Portrayal
  Both marvel at how the show incorporates texting, googling, social media, and device-based anxiety into the narrative—making interiority an exterior, visible process.
  [22:12]
  “Interiority…is extremely exterior these days. We perform it all the time…Sunny has really captured that moment.” – Andy

• Specificity in Writing
  The show excels in real-life details, such as name-dropping Childish Gambino and referencing Nextdoor posts, relaying social and class positioning with nuance and humor.
  [26:26]
  “That even in that small line, it communicated to us their relationship with celebrity…how intimate they are with them.” – Andy

• Themes: Class, Ambition, Marriage, and Technology

  • The season follows two couples (Josh & Lindsay played by Oscar Isaac and Carey Mulligan; Ashley & Austin by Cailee Spaeny & Charles Melton) and their escalating conflicts in a high-end country club.
  • Digital devices are central to deception, betrayal, and jealousy.
  • The show examines how love, across age and class, is corrupted by both internal flaws and external pressures.

• Writing for Performers
  The scripts are tailored for the specific talents of each actor, such as letting Mulligan be British for improvisational ease.

Performance Highlights & Casting

• Charles Melton’s Standout
  Both hosts praise Melton’s “dumb but soulful” turn, comparing it favorably to Brad Pitt’s in Burn After Reading.
  [34:09]
  “He is so good at doing something that a lot of actors struggle with…” – Andy

• Cailee Spaeny’s Range
  Andy compares her silent, angry reaction in the hospital to major movie-star gestures:
  [47:37]
  “She does not have to say a thing…but she is like, this guy just might’ve robbed me of having a baby. I’m gonna make it my life’s mission to bring him down.” – Chris

• Mulligan & Isaac’s Chemistry
  Their history (in Drive and Llewyn Davis) pays off; Chris defends Isaac’s approach to the “man-child” archetype vs. Gyllenhaal’s (who was once rumored for the role).

Detailed Episode Impressions & Favorite Moments

• Episode 3: The B&B&B Dream
  Josh and Lindsay explore opening a “bed, bath and barn” and have their ambitions quickly dashed, culminating in a deadpan encounter with a rich club member.
  [39:44]
  “They immediately let their dream die.” – Chris

• Episode 4: Hospital Ordeal
  Ashley’s medical crisis exposes class and healthcare anxiety, driving a sharp stake into her relationship with Josh.
  [41:08]
  “Ashley does not know how healthcare works because she’s never had it before…her nostrils flare for just a second and you’re like, man, Josh is fucking dead.” – Chris

• Episode 5: Search for Burberry & Emotional Fallout
  Lindsay’s frantic search for a lost dog stands in for her own spiraling. The emotional complexity and the show’s ability to lurch between humor, dread, and pathos are highlighted.

Writing & Tone

• Digital Age Authenticity
  The show does not only feature devices; the friction of living constantly connected is central to the drama—deleted texts, social media surveillance, and technological mistrust drive plot and character. [25:07]
  “It is not an impediment to the storytelling. It is often the source of storytelling.” – Andy

• Humor & Pathos Balance
  From running gags about Hot Chip to medical Gatorade preferences, the humor feels both specific and natural, never undercutting the emotional stakes.

• Relatable Fights and Relationship Truths
  The hosts marvel at the script’s ability to make even petty marital arguments (over Covid, movie tickets, Amazon purchases) feel profound and familiar. [51:29]
  “It’s just a very, very accurate depiction of long-term relationship fighting.” – Chris

Memorable Quotes

• On Seeing Themselves in Characters
  [23:49]
  “Probably partially because I recognize it in myself…but it’s strange to watch a show feel native to that in a really, really perceptive way.” – Chris

• On The Show’s Place in TV
  [22:12]
  “This show is native to our time in a way that feels very, very…exciting and gets the details right...” – Andy

• On Forgiving Plot Extremes
  [53:02]
  “When it’s working, I only note that stuff being preposterous if I’m not bought in. If I’m bought in, I’m on the ride.” – Andy

Segment Timestamps

• Beef Season 2 Discussion Start: [17:37]
• Casting & Characterization Insights: [32:53]
• Episodes 3-5 Deep Dive: [39:04]
• Digital Life & Contemporary Storytelling: [22:11], [25:03], [26:26]
• Performance Highlights: [34:09-35:04], [47:37]

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Top Chef S23E7 Recap & Debate

Quick Recap

• Cracker Barrel Challenge Disappointment
  Both hosts pan the forced corporate synergy (“We all know and love their famous crispy-edged pancakes”—Andy: “No, we don't.”) and grueling “dessert only” tasks, for giving chefs no room for creativity.
  [64:49]
• Studio Fatigue
  They complain about contestants being confined to the studio for both quickfire and elimination, which reduces the excitement and visual interest.
• Contestant Commentary
  • Anthony & Lawrence seen as most skilled, but cast overall lacks “generational” cooking talent.
    [67:30]
  • Roda and Jennifer medical eliminations spawn confusing “who’s coming back?” edits, which the hosts find unsatisfying and not well-explained.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• [65:10]
  “Making them do back to backs.” – Chris
  “Having normals in to taste their food. The entire episode feels claustrophobic and detached from any actual reality.” – Andy

• [67:03]
  “I still think this has been a strong season…But I am very unimpressed with the contestants so far. Unless the Roda elimination was like accidentally axing your main character too early…” – Andy

• Food Preferences & Hot Sauce Discussion
  The hosts joke about their tolerance for spice, and how different palates would fare in a “Hot Ones” style challenge.
  [71:13]
  “No one can hit me when it comes to Szechuan spice.” – Chris

Segment Timestamps

• Top Chef Segment Begins: [58:35]
• Cracker Barrel Challenge Frustration: [64:49]
• Contestant Analysis & Hidden Twists: [67:03–70:05]

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Closing Banter: Sports, Flyers, and Draft Day

• Silliness about playoff hockey, the Flyers’ unexpected success, and Andy’s “off-season warrior” obsession with NFL draft narratives.
  [73:10–77:52]
  “That’s my preferred mode of sports. I’m beginning to think that I’m an off-season warrior, you know.” – Andy

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Final Notes

• The hosts tease further coverage of Beef’s closing episodes and an upcoming Euphoria episode breakdown.
• They maintain their dynamic, balancing in-the-weeds TV talk with relatable insights and digressions, always circling back to the central theme: why story, character, and self-perception matter in modern TV.

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Episode Highlights At a Glance

| Timestamp | Segment | Key Topic/Quote | |-------------|------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------| | 17:37 | Beef Season 2 discussion starts | “Let’s talk about Beef.” – Chris | | 20:17 | Show of the year declaration | “This may be my show of the year so far.” – Andy | | 23:49 | Digital anxiety in storytelling | “Probably partially because I recognize it in myself…” – Chris | | 39:04 | Deep dive into Episodes 3, 4, 5 | “3 features a wonderful escapade…” – Chris | | 47:37 | Cailee Spaeny’s milestone moment | “She does not have to say a thing, but she is like…” – Chris | | 64:49 | Top Chef Cracker Barrel roast | “A wedged in, nonsensical corporate tie-in…” – Andy | | 67:03 | Contestant impressions | “I am very unimpressed with the contestants so far.” – Andy |

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For Next Time

• Full wrap-up of Beef Season 2.
• Euphoria Episode 3 review.
• Boots-on-the-ground reporting from Ojai.

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Original Tone: Playful, analytical, self-aware, peppered with pop-culture references and inside jokes.
Speakers Quoted With Attribution.
Timestamps in MM:SS format.

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This summary captures all significant discussions and moments from The Watch’s April 23, 2026 episode, providing both a comprehensive overview and detailed navigational cues for listeners.

Transcript

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[Chris Ryan]

This episode is brought to you by Brooks. Running connects us to a rush of energy that flows through our world. The cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us, the intersection of interests that inspires a run crew, the support that gets you over the finish line. Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there. Learn [e-mail]. I need support staff to clear the room.

[Andy Greenwald]

Stand up and walk now.

[Chris Ryan]

Hello and welcome to the Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] and joining me in the studio and he was a boy from school. It's Andy Greenwald.

[Andy Greenwald]

That was a hot chip reference.

[Chris Ryan]

What's up, brother?

[Andy Greenwald]

You're looking good today.

[Chris Ryan]

You're looking good today. Yeah, you know what? This is actually the two genders. Except we're one gender. But like, you know, like it's two ways to wear the same literal same outfit. We're both wearing jeans and a denim shirt today. It was unplanned.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's weird to know.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know what to do about it. I guess I could take mine off and get the gun show going, but

[Andy Greenwald]

we rarely have things in common. So this does really strike me as odd. You are. For those not watching along on the video feeds, yes, you are also continuing to wear a Phillies hat, which is wild because I would like to state on the record before we get into our table of contents today, that since you declared the baseball season is irrelevant until game 60 60, the Phillies have not won a game. Yes, they have been in absolute catastrophic freefall since you announced I we have

[Chris Ryan]

a whole series to do at the end. Watch After Dark, which comes after Top Chef After Dark. Right which will be largely about Philadelphia sports and where I need you to be.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay?

[Chris Ryan]

I need you to put a fucking jacket on and join me on the ice. But I will say this. Joel Embiid, seen practicing.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Mike Vrabel's infidelity possibly torpedoing the A.J. brown trade. I think now is the time to strike and have a coup against Bill. I was going to say, this is when I take over Rewatch.

[Andy Greenwald]

He's weak. This is actually weak. This is Putin's whole strategy. Do you understand? He knows he has a smaller, less rich country, but he sees the long game. He's like Littlefinger. And what he does is he just chip, chip, chip away. And the next thing you know, when

[Chris Ryan]

the Sixers losing five and AJ still gets traded, he kisses me full on the mouth and goes, I knew it was. You know.

[Andy Greenwald]

He just shows you your new office on the fourth floor.

[Chris Ryan]

Wait, is that like. Like lockjaw?

[Andy Greenwald]

No. Oh, yes. No, I just feel like, generally with Putin. Oh. If you run afoul of him, just

[Chris Ryan]

make sure the windows lock and don't touch doorknobs. Greenwald, great to see you, man. I haven't said this in a while, but you can email us at the [e-mail] we've been getting some cool emails. I'm going to collect some for a mailbag coming up.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think we should get all kinds of questions in this mailbag. I'm tired of being limited to, like,

[Chris Ryan]

oh, ask us anything.

[Andy Greenwald]

What are the five best prestige TV shows?

[Chris Ryan]

Come on, ask us anything. Mailbag incoming.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think it's time to be more free with our taste.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. So watchpotify.com if you want to email us anything, consider it our substack.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know what I mean?

[Chris Ryan]

Sure, man. And then Instagram is thewatchpod. You can watch us on YouTube at the Ringer TV. Rob Mahoney put up a really lovely video essay about the pit that our guy Kai Grady worked with him on. So shout out to them. Shout out to Prestige tv, who are also covering Beef in increments. They're doing three. Three, three, I believe. Or three, three, two. Or however they're doing it. We're going to talk about the first five episodes of Beef today. Beef season two.

[Andy Greenwald]

I can't wait.

[Chris Ryan]

I would like to say something in the. In the spirit of accountability.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

I believe that I was rather flippant in my. Like, Beef got bad reviews, and I don't want to watch it. Shame on me.

[Andy Greenwald]

Shame on me.

[Chris Ryan]

For one thing, for this, it's impossible to really. I don't believe the numerical system people have established the Metacritic numbers or whatever to say this is getting this meta score or whatever. I believe Beef is doing fine with the critics, but you know what? It's doing better than fine with me.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And it just goes to show, you do your own research, you know, you've learned anything over the last six years.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know what? I appreciate you taking a page from your heroine, Laurie Chavez Darimur's Playbook. And when stories were swirling, you were like, you know what? This is untenable. I have to address these things.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And remove myself.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm stepping down before. Before the ethics committee gets to me. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

I mean, the other response was, you could have sued Rotten Tomatoes. Yes. That's fake news.

[Chris Ryan]

But, you know, like, I think. I think there are things to critique about this season of Beef, but I'm excited to talk to you about it. I had a couple of news items for you.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

One is a real, like, I don't know if I want to do this top the show because I need it to be safespace.com to do it, but obviously some Michael Mann extended universe stuff in the news this week. First of all, yes, I did see Mayor Mom Donnie quote heat.

[Andy Greenwald]

Look, what's your comment at this time?

[Chris Ryan]

I couldn't be happier. Like if that guy ever wants to go get a cup of coffee and stare at each other and say, I do pods, I do what I do best. You know, like whatever he wants to do.

[Andy Greenwald]

Here's the thing. I want to put this out there. There is a non zero chance that he is a rewatchables listener.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, there's a non zero chance also, like, he. He's available. Like. Like this guy knows how to reach the people. He did side talk like he's done Adam Friedland. Like, he.

[Andy Greenwald]

You think this is his next stop in his media tour.

[Chris Ryan]

The. The foreheat is Mamdani.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, for you guys. I thought he was going to come to our podcast.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah. I mean, like, whatever.

[Andy Greenwald]

Wherever he wants for these six Secretary of Labor burns. He knows where to show up.

[Chris Ryan]

He's probably going to do. Do like a Rob Mahoney video essay on the Pit. This is how we fix health care.

[Andy Greenwald]

I would, I would love that. I think that's very exciting and I think that we should make this happen because you're. You know how TMZ just recently announced they are going to dc?

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, they are in dc.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think this is. This is a good next move for you guys. I think that this is the next world you need to conquer. Because socialism, sure, whatever you want to call it. I'm just saying I think that, like the merging of these worlds because you notice that there are people that occasionally pundits online, like a Matt Iglesias or something, will be like, I would like to be third chair on jmo. You know, like, I think that this is all possible for you, so we

[Chris Ryan]

should just bring in the political pundit class, is what you're saying.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think that there is a. There is precedent for, with rewatchables when certain, like celebrities or actors are fans, they have made appearances or they've talked about it, you know, So I think why not Senator Chris Murphy? You know what I mean?

[Chris Ryan]

Why not? He was here. I think he did press box. I mean, these guys are in the mix. Maybe they should do like a car wash where they do like press box. They do ring or tailgate. They could hear Joel's wrestling story and then they can come up and show

[Andy Greenwald]

up with a blue oxford shirt and

[Chris Ryan]

just be like, are we sure beef's good? I mean, are we sure?

[Andy Greenwald]

What is their truest form? The sad thing is we are all the same age now.

[Chris Ryan]

I know.

[Andy Greenwald]

Seriously, it's fine.

[Chris Ryan]

Anyway, in the man universe, I just wanted to say that I have clocked the fact that Joseph Kaczynski's much talked about Miami Vice adaptation or reboot is going to be called Miami Vice 85. I need a trach kit because I'm choking on it. This is absolutely ridiculous. I am so excited that he is going to bring his very, very, very polished, like the true era of Tony Scott's kind of like slick, slick Hollywood filmmaking and that he is going to neon the fuck out with 85. Or maybe he's got a different vision of 1985.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think this vision, whatever it is, is going to be seen through slatted blinds at midday.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And I think it's actually pretty smart to not try to out modern the Michael Mann, you know, feature version of Miami Vice, which is kind of like, you know, become like a bit of a modern cult classic.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is you in the hot dog suit wondering, wondering who's responsible for this.

[Chris Ryan]

Responsible for this. There's a part of me. There's a small part of me which part that I can't tell if it's my head or my heart. So maybe it's my, My, my trachea. It's. There's a part of me that is as if not more excited for this than I am for Heat too.

[Andy Greenwald]

Wow. Thank you for sharing this here.

[Chris Ryan]

Because Heat, too, still feels, like, speculative to me. Like, it still almost feels too real, too crazy to be real. That they're going to do this. That they're going to do a globe trotting crime epic with two of the biggest, best actors alive and a crazy supporting cast. If rumors are true, this Miami Vice 85, Austin Butler is Sonny Crockett. Michael B. Jordan as Ricardo Tubbs. I don't think that those Tom Cruise rumors about him playing the villain are real, but crazier things have happened in this little world of ours. So I don't know. I mean, do you ever watch Miami Vice, the show when it was on in the 80s, not in the 80s, but have you ever watched it?

[Andy Greenwald]

I've watched it sparingly. I have. It was. I don't know if it was the same thing in your house, but it was illicit because it was on late.

[Chris Ryan]

You just watch it from the landing.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes, it was. Watch it through a crack in the door kind of stuff. Or if you had a sleepover with friends who had a more liberal sleep schedule.

[Chris Ryan]

A bunch of guys wearing denim shirts

[Andy Greenwald]

just sitting around holding hands in the dark in their Gremlin sleeping bags, being like, this is the best one.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's a who's who of character actors, guys. Yeah. Or did you ever. You know what the big thing was? This is very generational, but I bet Senator Chris Murphy will get the reference. There was always like the one friend who had a TV in their room or that they could wheel into their room for sleepovers.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

Then you could watch it.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you ever have the kid who had the TV come out of the floor or come out of, like, the half wall? I heard about those kids, dude. I knew a kid had that goddamn. That took like five minutes for the thing to rise, but it was worth it. Every minute you were just like, fuck.

[Andy Greenwald]

2001 soundtrack playing, go away. Yeah, man, those are exciting times. I think that this movie sounds fantastic. I think maybe the other thing you're responding to potentially is that calling it Miami Vice 85 really seems like they're going to be dialing in on the aesthetics of what already made America Great. Whereas Heat 2 is the movie that Michael Mann is going to make next, which is of great interest. But increasingly, with this cast list, and you say a global. What is a global crime romp, it feels less connected to what made the original special and maybe more a celebration.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm a huge fan of the last two Joseph Katzinski movies.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And I. I think that he will bring. He will infuse this with an energy that I'm very interested to see. Michael Mann, like, is my Jesus, so I won't doubt him, but, like, I just want to see some set photos where I want to see, like, yep, we're rolling in this year, you know.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay, yeah. Thank you for sharing that. That was very vulnerable.

[Chris Ryan]

Thanks, Sid.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's why I wore this shirt.

[Chris Ryan]

The only other thing I had for you today was that I saw an announcement that Paramount is going to get behind a series adaptation of another cult classic. Honestly, James Mangold's, I believe, early 2000s.

[Andy Greenwald]

God, what year was it? I think it's earlier than that. I think it was 90s, 1997.

[Chris Ryan]

James Mangold's 1997 crime drama, Copland.

[Andy Greenwald]

Let me set the scene for you. A young fellow, no TV in his, goes to the mailbox to get the hot off the press issue of Movieline magazine, where in addition to a scorching interview with someone who is in probably Body of Evidence or something, there was

[Chris Ryan]

like, Willem Dafoe Tells all, literally.

[Andy Greenwald]

There was a little piece about how Sylvester Stallone is gonna, you know, dust off his acting boots and really give it a go.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, he did, and it is one of my. One of my favorite crime dramas of that decade.

[Andy Greenwald]

Is it? Oh, is it Leota?

[Chris Ryan]

Incredible Leota. Harvey Keitel, Robert Patrick, briefly, Edie Falco.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And Stallone.

[Andy Greenwald]

Very dramatic ending, if I reckon.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's just fantastic. Anyway, this is actually a film to series adaptation that I think makes sense because for people who don't know, the concept of Copland is essentially a town in New Jersey that a bunch of New York cops have essentially taken over as their, like, soft retirement home slash place from which they do nefarious business. And Sylvester Stallone's character is the cop who polices cops, but not very aggressively. Like, he's part of a kind of, you scratch my back, I scratch yours.

[Andy Greenwald]

And he is. He is deaf.

[Chris Ryan]

He is. He's lost hearing in his one ear. Yes. And a cop who has to police cops is a good logline for a TV show that lasts multiple seasons.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. Especially because it comes with a setting like a town that runs by a different set of rules.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. Now, you don't have to set this in New Jersey to New York, although that was definitely like, the. The sense of place in Copland is one of the major draws of. It is so evocative of those towns. When you get over the George Washington and you're driving south and you're just kind of like, what's going on over there? What's going on over there? And these are all like these kind of commuter towns that are very. And even like the way New Jersey is kind of set up where it's like everything is like a village or a township.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. In order to turn, you have to turn right and then loop back around that about.

[Chris Ryan]

We never got to the bottom of that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Do you think Copland voted for Mikey Sherrill for governor?

[Chris Ryan]

Can I mean, can I ask you that something? Do you think it would be better if we have more shit like that in Los Angeles instead of like the like Rhodes day death race 2000 that is left turn on yellow?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, yeah. Any follow ups?

[Chris Ryan]

No, I mean, I just. I just think we could. We could do some interesting stuff here with, with driving if we ever had that wherewithal.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think the problem here's what I blame most in Los Angeles, it's the Groundlings. I think that there is a culture of improvisation that has leached from the feeder theaters to Saturday Night Live into people's approach to traffic.

[Chris Ryan]

In this analogy, what's the feeder theater?

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, any improv theater. Because I watch someone just.

[Chris Ryan]

You mean like people's driving has become more and more free jazz?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Who is responsible for that?

[Andy Greenwald]

I just think it's the culture of. Yes. And I think you can hear of

[Chris Ryan]

everybody being like, I'm looking at Google Maps.

[Andy Greenwald]

I saw someone today turn left to get here where we are at lovely Spotify in downtown Los Angeles. It was the most impressionistic left turn I've ever seen. It was like Monet looking at water lilies for the first time. There we were on that bridge turning off and there were four cars coming and there's no signal. So normally what one does when one has an arrow that it's allowed is one waits for the oncoming traffic to cease. Yeah. Not only did they turn in front of those cars, they then started to turn more to delay the impact of those cars. As if they just took a little more time.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

It would get them there.

[Chris Ryan]

It's tough out there.

[Andy Greenwald]

It was like watching Will Ferrell in 1993.

[Chris Ryan]

But, you know, the reason why I bring this up is I was thinking about some, you know, Cape Fear coming soon on Apple tv, which I think will be an extended version of like the story we know and love of Max Cady, you know, Presumed Innocent from a couple of years ago or a year or so ago on Apple tv, essentially expanding a very taught two hour thriller that's not. Ordinarily what I go for when it comes to these kinds of like big screen, little screen adaptations, but something like Copland, which obviously I'm drawn to anyway because of the subject matter and because of the original treatment of it. If Mangold's involved, I have a lot of belief. The other creative involved is the Old man creator, Robert Levine. I think that that's just like a really smart way to make a cool TV show. Now you could just definitely dial it up as mayor of Kingstowne too, and just kind of have it be like guys walking in rooms. It'll probably be pretty decent either way, but I like the thinking here.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, I do too. I also like you concern trolling TV shows about men walking into rooms.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, it's all we got, right? They haven't figured out a better way to make tv? Let me know.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, I mean, lioness, there's a woman in the room.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure. Yeah, for sure.

[Andy Greenwald]

You got that?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike, or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for? That's when prime, same day delivery, has your back, getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably. So you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery. It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to find millions of items delivered fast available in select areas. Terms apply. Should we just talk about Beef?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you have anything else you wanted to bounce off me? You said you had a question for me.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think it's. I think considering my long disposition on Left Turning, I think we should just get into our shows.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure. I mean, it's your show too, man. You can. You can call, call an audible if you want.

[Andy Greenwald]

I work better within a structured offense.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's talk about Beef. Okay. So not unlike the first season where I think I went into it and was a little bit like, what do we got here? What's. What do we got on our hands? And then found myself just completely enamored with it and talked to Sonny and Jake from behind the scenes on the show at one point for the podcast.

[Andy Greenwald]

And we should say Lee Sung Jin, who is the creator of the show,

[Chris Ryan]

goes by Sunny, goes by Sonny and Jake Schreier, who I think believe these two are now collaborating on the X Men adaptation, which is pretty big deal. This is three years after the first season. This is an anthology show. So the concept of Beef is one I think we can interrogate. And what unites these two seasons is I have not revisited the first season, obviously, but I'm curious to know if you drew any connective tissue to the other two. Obviously, Sunny takes the idea of an inciting incident and really explores the studio space with it because from this inciting incident so many different things kind of get brought into this, this whirlpool of distress. Right this season. The new installment tracks the collision between two couples working in and around a high end country club called Monte Vista, which I believe is like set in, in like in Santa Barbara, I believe Santa Barbara County. And then the one couple, Josh and Lindsay, are in their 40s, played by Oscar Isaac.

[Andy Greenwald]

Excuse me, Lindsay's 39. That's a plot point.

[Chris Ryan]

Josh and Lindsay, who are in and around their 40s, they live in Ojai and work at this country club. Lindsay, not so much. She's hoping to be brought on as an interior designer. Josh is the general manager. There's another couple, Ashley and Austin, who are far lower on the totem pole at the job. The job totem pole at this country club and Ashley's social. Austin is hoping to catch on as a trainer of some kind at the club. And one night they witness in the first episode a fight between Josh and Lindsay, a volcanic fight that they surreptitiously record and then use as tacit than explicit blackmail over the first couple of episodes. Then the show explodes and the show goes in a hundred different directions. But not, I don't mean that in a messy, unplanned way. I think what I wanted to talk to you about first with this show is we talked, we did five episodes, so we have a couple more. We can maybe hit that on Monday if you'd like to. But like, what are some broad headlines about this season for you so far?

[Andy Greenwald]

As I said to you last night, call me Liver King the way I'm loving this beef. This may be my show of the year so far. Wow. I loved it. I was completely, completely riveted and engaged with almost every aspect of it. Excited to talk about in detail why I'm excited to talk about some of these performances, but I was specifically thinking about what Sonny has done here and what he's established across two seasons. And I think that he is one of, if not the best example of a television auteur. What he is capable of doing within the Netflix model is remarkable. I wish it wasn't unique, but it is rare in that he is able to tell a sprawling but I think very Focused thematic story across multiple episodes that has the necessary propulsion to keep you clicking, to keep you watching television, but doesn't ever feel. Because we've been bumping up over the last few weeks against a lot of pilots, a lot of new series that feel like, well, that kind of could have been a movie, or that kind of is going to be best expressed over five seasons. It's in the wrong box. He is a master at this specific sized box. And that is not a small thing. The second thing I was feeling as I was watching and loving these episodes was I was trying to think about why I found this so appealing. Because as you and longtime listeners know, I tend to be drawn to smaller studies that capture the minutiae of daily life. You know, for example, well, you. You will spend a night watching a horror film in the theater, and I will spend a night watching the Taste of Things, one of the most charming and beautiful French films of recent years about sumptuous cooking in the 19th century. We can only be US elite Juliette Binoche performance. It's on Hulu now. The thing that I love about beef that really crystallized at some point. I believe it's in. It might have even been in the first episode. I did watch them pretty stacked on top of each other.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

When the characters are scrolling, when the characters are googling, when the characters are whatsapping and texting and Instagram messaging and then going into recently deleted, the way they're living their lives online on a show, I realized that first of all, interiority, as I love, or as, you know, generally we love in novels, is extremely exterior these days. We perform interiority all the time in our daily lives, whether it's the pictures we post or whether it's the wellness journeys we embark on, or even just bringing everything up in either actual therapy or therapeutic talk. Like the business of interior lives is about making that external. And I feel like Sunny has really captured that moment in a way that it feels artful and true. And specifically, there's a moment early on and then we can get into the specifics. But early on in the season, Carey Mulligan, who I think is brilliant always and incredibly so in this series, is toggling between conversations and Googles and life choices the way we all do. And she's reaching out to an old flame and then blocking the old flame and then engaging with someone else, which causes her to go back and unblock the old flame. And the immediacy of her emotional decision making is so dysregulated, but also so available to her that. That then finds its match in the way these characters bounce off of each other like super radical free electrons in this fishbowl of contemporary society.

[Chris Ryan]

You're really tapping into something there. Cause it's also the thing that I think maybe at some points makes my skin crawl when I watch it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, it's intense.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, not necessarily because I. Probably partially because I recognize it in myself. But, you know, there's often this trope about like, well, would digital cell phones or would smartphones ru movie.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

And we're often like, yes, Die Hard would be five minutes long if people could text. You know, it's strange to watch a show feel native to that in a really, really perceptive way. So much of the deception, the betrayal in this show is fueled by or the mechanism it's. It's expressed through is deleting text messages is, you know, like basically that kind of almost digital forgery that goes on if you are in trusting relationship or any kind of relationship. And there's like, you know, to what extent are people's phones there an extension of their own, you know, personal, private thoughts? And to what extent are they just a piece of like tracking, you know, machinery that is following your wants and impulses? And, you know, it's not like this is a digital surveillance show. But a lot of what goes wrong for these characters happens because people have fucking computers in their hands all the time.

[Andy Greenwald]

And it is not an impediment to the storytelling. It is often the source of storytelling.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

One thing that we, I think that we celebrate whenever we see it is when we can recognize, even without behind the scenes interviews or access to the showrunners, moments when it felt like they had painted themselves into a corner and they were like, actually, this is. This challenge is an opportunity. Everything about this show flows from the reality of what they carry in their pockets. The video doesn't happen if they don't have it that way. The seething jealousy of other people's lives that fuels everything all four of these characters do in different social strata. Wouldn't happen if they didn't have this in their pocket all the time. They are living. You know, we've often talked about how, like, it's hard to break through as a TV show because you are competing against everything that's ever been made all the time. And this show is about how it's almost impossible to be alive when you're competing against every other person who's alive and has ever been alive.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

And how do you stay within your own life? So it is. Use the word native. I think this show is native to our time in a way that feels very, very exc. And gets the details right in the sense that, you know, the creators are being observant in the way that Austin tosses out the word late stage capitalism as if it was something that had been on a high shelf and he had just recently reached and taken it down. The way that when.

[Chris Ryan]

And Austin is played by Charles Melton, who is incredible.

[Andy Greenwald]

I can't wait to talk about this

[Chris Ryan]

by Kaylee Spaeny, who I think is remarkable in this. The four leads are astonishing in this.

[Andy Greenwald]

When Lindsay. This sentence alone is going to give you a sense of the show if you haven't watched it yet. But when Lindsay and. Oh my God, I'm blanking on Oscar Isaac's character's name.

[Chris Ryan]

Josh.

[Andy Greenwald]

Josh. Are driving, looking for their missing dog named Burberry. She says in the middle of her, you know, absolute anxiety spiral. Oh, Childish Gambino just shared my next door post. My next door post. And when they go to a rescue, they say something about like, I saw Gambino's post. And he's like, hey, he's a nice guy. The specificity. It would be different if they were like, Donald Glover shared it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

That even in that small line, it communicated to us their relationship with celebrity and the people that they do or don't know and how intimate they are with them. Every moment is considered in a way that I found really thoughtful and exciting.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I think that there's. When I'm watching this show, I have basically, and I'm curious whether you ever do this with this or other series you're having essentially the front, this sort of superficial, visceral experience of like, anxiety and. Or just tracking the various threads. And I should mention at this point that very quickly into this show, Josh, who you know, essentially his identity as being the general manager of this country club. The country club is taken over by a Korean company run by someone named

[Andy Greenwald]

Chairwoman park, played by Oscar winner Yoon Yoo Jung.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's awesome.

[Chris Ryan]

She is fantastic. And it brings in like a whole other element to the show, which involves, like, her husband, who's played by the

[Andy Greenwald]

legend Song Kang Ho, who star Parasite and Memories of Murder. One of my favorite actors alive. And he's just.

[Chris Ryan]

He plays a plastic surgeon working in Seoul who loses a patient. And that is in its own sense, like a triggering event for the entire series. And Eunice, who's Chairwoman Park's assistant, is also a very important character, but it blows out of the doors of the Ojai Country Club into a kind of much bigger canvas. So you're watching it and you're tracking it, and you're kind of, like, analyzing all of the. Like, oh, this document was left out on somebody's table. So they saw it. And it's. There's a lot of embezzlement stuff going on. And then there is, like, the other part, which I think I'm much more into, which is thinking about beef rather than necessarily watching it. I don't find this anxious or uncomfortable to watch at all. Maybe it's not my favorite show of the year, but it's probably the smartest show of the year. And I think it has the most to say. And I think it. It's. It's the deepest so far, you know, like. And maybe that should be. Yeah, that all alone should make it the best. But I think that seeing these three couples at various stages of their life, essentially, like late 20s, late 30s, early 40s, and then much older, like senior citizens, essentially.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, the chairwoman is 20 years older.

[Chris Ryan]

Chairwoman's probably in her 60s, right? 50, late 50s.

[Andy Greenwald]

Chairwoman. The actress is approaching 80.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Andy Greenwald]

And the end. And her husband is 50.

[Chris Ryan]

You say chairwoman's much older than her husband.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes, yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Sorry. Yes. So the chairwoman is approaching 80, but the husband is probably in his 50s, but in any case, much older than Josh and Lindsay. And the way the show kind of depicts love getting corrupted no matter what age you are, depending on your economic situation, and also love getting corrupted regardless of your economic situation, you know that there is essentially this coarsening brittling effect that happens to any kind of romance.

[Andy Greenwald]

This was a hallmark of the first season as well, which is that the show escalates and then asks what comes next. We've talked about this, came up in our industry conversations, I think, recently. And when we were thinking about the way characters fight on that show and then the types of. And in relationship actually to the way characters fight on or fought on succession. And one of the things that was remarkable about succession was that when Tom and Shiv went at each other, it felt apocalyptic. And then the show wasn't afraid to say the day after what happens in the smoking ruin. How much more is there to bomb what remains alive? And the thing that Sunny does so well is he pushes his chips in on these fights that can, you know, the smallest piece of kindling can ignite them between the characters. But the fight that begins the series is immediately spun into something else. Where Lindsay is like, oh, you know, if you don't have fights like this, then you're hiding something. Which plants a seed in Austin's mind about what. What honesty is worth and how it's expressed in relationships. And it allows us to see a little bit further in the emotional journey of these characters as they get more increasingly caught up in these, like, byzantine plot elements that are compelling and beautifully stacked on top of each other. But the show doesn't succeed or fail on the back of them, which is something that I really, really like. It succeeds and fails on its continuing emotional architect archaeological dig. Of these people, all of whom who are given the full sweep of personhood and all of whom can be both buffoons and victims in equal measure.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think that when characters are as well drawn as this and are given, to use your words, the full suite of personhood, it kind of obviates the need to have the do you like these people? Conversation.

[Andy Greenwald]

I hope so. I think, yeah, I think it's a great question to ask and I find it. I mean, I find that to be the most boring question you could ever ask about art.

[Chris Ryan]

It is. But I do think that there's something to the durational experience of watching television where you have to, like, at least spending time with them. You don't necessarily have to want the guy to be your babysitter, but you want to see them over and over and over again.

[Andy Greenwald]

And partly because they are. They can be competent in ways that are compelling. They can be charming in ways that are entertaining or funny often, which is something that the show is able to do quite well. But the other thing that keeps you coming back, and I think kept people coming back to succession, not just from a baseline, like kill the Rich attitude, but from a. Oh, my God, that excruciating moment of vulnerable humanity is pretty relatable. And it kills me that someone I hate, like Kendall or, you know, or in this case, Josh, is also capable of that moment. Yeah, that's what the best shows do, and that's what the show is, to me is doing through five episodes.

[Chris Ryan]

In what I've read about the making of this season, it sounds like Sonny wrote very specifically for the people who he cast. So not necessarily originally, because I know that others had been in the mix for the show. I mean, you had mentioned the originally

[Andy Greenwald]

and rarely, rarely hit lists or wish lists get leaked or get announced. The first stories About Beef Season 2 said that the four actors were circling the parts and it was Cailee Spaeny and Charles Melton and Jake Gyllenhaal and Anne Hathaway, who I think would have been phenomenal in this. And I actually think Jake Gyllenhaal would have been better than Oscar Isaac, an actor who, you know, cold I like more. But we can talk about that specifically.

[Chris Ryan]

I disagree with you about that. I think I'm a little bit warmer on the Oscar Isaac performance here than you are. I wonder what it is you think. Why do you say that?

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay, so my. There are certain things that you can just tell. Like, you can. I don't know if you can tell, but, like, Charles Melton is incredible in the show. He is so, so good at doing something that a lot of actors struggle. Struggle with even great actors. Goling is good at this, too. Being dumb in putting that in quotes, but also somehow soulful.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Brad Pitt's the master of that.

[Andy Greenwald]

But this part is Brad Pitt's performance in Burn After Reading, but with the humanity filters set slightly differently. He is kind of buffoonish, but he also weeps when a bee dies in their apartment, which tells you a lot about him, both good and bad. And I think that, like, little decisions, too, just suit and flatter the actress. Like, I think Carey Mulligan is amazing in. I think everything I've ever seen her in. I think she's one of our best actors. This decision to let her be British in this is so crucial.

[Chris Ryan]

What she said is, I knew that it would require. This performance was gonna require a degree of improvisation that would just be much easier if I wasn't also worrying about accent and dialect.

[Andy Greenwald]

And so we don't know what the original conception of the character was, but adding in certain details about her life before Josh and about dating a royal.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Being photographed in the Daily Mail being posh and then finding herself in circumstances that her friends back home will probably all heart on Instagram, but the reality of which is a lot more diminished than people might realize, is Pitch Perfect. I love Oscar Isaac. As long as we've been doing this podcast, he's. We've talked about him like one of our favorite actors, which he is. I find him less. He's so good and uniquely good at being nebbishy. I mean, inside Llewyn Davis is a masterpiece. But there's something about his presentation and his physicality recently where he looks like he's still auditioning for Moon Knight, and he looks super ripped and good and healthy. And I know that's part of, like, the Ojai lifestyle and presenting as someone who can hang with the rich people. And Benny Blanco and Michael Phelps as he does in the show. But it is slightly, to me makes his neediness and his vanity and his weakness impenetrable.

[Chris Ryan]

There's also, I think it's important to note that that character is kind of living in a state of suspended animation where he's still like trying to get the sickest stereo set up, you know, and has sports memorabilia all over his man cave, you know, and is like, kind of like, I am going to preserve this version of myself. And I think that that explains also like, why he looks the way he looks. Like he's trying to, to stay as long as he can in his child. Like his, his best version of his body.

[Andy Greenwald]

And it does track that like people who are rich and successful and famous wouldn't. They would bring him along because he looks the part even if he can't play fully the part with his finances and everything else. I. This, this is just a, it's a, it's a minor note because when he and Carey Mulligan are going at each other, he's exceptional when he's sort of looming over Cailee Spaeny and threatening her and stuff. Like the perform, the, the granular details of the performance are spec, but there is something like when I see Jake Gyllenhaal on screen, I don't trust him. And I think that's a key part of some of his best performances, going back to what I briefly thought was a masterpiece of television, Presumed Innocent. But that is something that he knows how to use. Even in the Spider man movie he was in, you're like, he's using his charisma. But there's something that.

[Chris Ryan]

It was Hathaway and Gyllenhaal because clearly Sonny has like an eye for pre existing chemistry between performers. And they've been in at least one film that I can think of before. Mulligan and Isaac have played across from each other in Drive and in Llewyn Davis and obviously are very familiar with each other as performers. And I think it works really well. And on the flip side of it, Spaeny and Melton, I think have this kind of like perfect vibe of like, I can't remember how long they're supposed to have been dating for but a

[Andy Greenwald]

year and a half.

[Chris Ryan]

But they're fiat, they're. They're engaged. And it has that like a lot of this show is about what does marriage mean? And what, what is your duty and what is your sense of loyalty to somebody made out of.

[Andy Greenwald]

And do you lift each other up or do you weigh each other down?

[Chris Ryan]

Sure. I mean I think that that. That inevitably happens in every marriage. But like the. The sort of bonds that people have and the. Like the. How they wanted to find each other through their relationships is really fascinating. The. So we'll talk a little bit more specifically about the episodes now. The first two. I. I don't really have a ton to say about. We've kind of set them up as these inciting incidents. It's important to know that Spaeny's character Ashley has a medical issue with her ovary that is going to need surgical attention at some point. But she doesn't have the money. She doesn't have health insurance because of her current status at the country club. How she's working. She uses this blackmail footage to sort of start to attain more and more status both up the chain of command at the country club, but just getting financial and benefits. Financial benefits. And to me the series really takes flight in episodes 3, 4 and 5.

[Andy Greenwald]

I agree.

[Chris Ryan]

3 features a wonderful escapade of Carey Mulligan's character and Oscar Isaac's character. Have long thought of starting a B and B. And then they decide they want to start a BB&B which is a bed, bath and barn. And in the barn they would hold concerts because they've. They're remembering going to see Hot Chip at the Hollywood bowl or LCD sound system at the Hollywood Bowl.

[Andy Greenwald]

The aging millennial details are choice. Also that exact dream that they have floated above Los Angeles like a giant thought balloon out of every house on the east side. Like that is so we could move

[Chris Ryan]

to Palm Desert and. And Queens of the Stone Age could

[Andy Greenwald]

play there so much cheaper there.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And they go on this sort of fact finding mission to. To see like another couple's version, very similar version of their. Their idea and just immediately let their dream die. Like as they walk through the realities of what they would have to do but also the. The scale at which they would have to be successful and who they would

[Andy Greenwald]

be competing against and who they would

[Chris Ryan]

be competing against and how difficult that would be. I even thought that the, the way that so Josh text Troy, who's played by William Fichner, the great character actor who's the sort of alpha of the country club in terms of rich guys and is like, you know, we're thinking about doing this and instead of being like yes, I'll invest. He's like, you should meet my friends who are doing it already. And it's just such like a perfect. Like that's how a dream gets Killed is with the one person not showing any interest and telling you, by the way, someone else is doing this already. I just love that whole episode. And then that episode culminates with a great fight between Austin and Ashley that ends with her jumping out of a moving vehicle.

[Andy Greenwald]

Shout out, lady Bird.

[Chris Ryan]

And then she winds up in the hospital. And her medical condition in episode four is this harrowing other side of the pit adventure where she's got this huge deductible.

[Andy Greenwald]

Josh comes in, and she doesn't understand what deductibles are. It was a great yes.

[Chris Ryan]

And Josh comes and offers to help her, but only if she shows him that she has deleted or is deleting all of the backups of the video in the cloud, which, again, is this sort of like three layers of mistrust. And everything attached to, you know, all these digital devices that we have is that nothing is ever really deleted.

[Andy Greenwald]

And a lesser show would run from that. Either because the creators are old and don't know that things stay in your recently deleted folder or on the cloud, or because it would dramatically. They would feel like it would dramatically cut off their opportunities. The show brings it in and makes

[Chris Ryan]

it part of the story. And there's all this stuff happening while they're in the hospital waiting room waiting for Ashley to be seen seemingly firm or injuries from falling out of the car. But really, like, what's really coming is this. The ovary situation is kind of coming to a head, is that there are these text messages between Austin and Eunice, chairwoman Park's assistant. There is Austin being somewhat surreptitious about his designs on becoming a unlicensed physical trainer for the club. But then Ashley is also responding to these text messages and then deleting all of them. And then Eunice is responding when Austin sees the phone to text messages that he hasn't sent to his mind. So it gets very, very not convoluted, but, like, kind of complex when it comes to the ways people are communicating. And the fact that Josh kind of holds medical attention ransom for Ashley is a final straw. She has to go into emergency surgery. They have to remove an ovary. And at the end of that, she is like, I will have my revenge in this life for the next, and winds up releasing, unintentionally, perhaps, Josh and Lindsay's dog. And that leads to my favorite episode of the series so far, which is five, where Lindsay has to spend an hour looking for Burberry while Josh goes to play with Hot Chip at a

[Andy Greenwald]

chalet in Utah off of a Private Jet, episode four. We should note Jake Schreier does a brilliant job directing the first episode, and I believe he came back for the finale of the season. But Sunny directs is four. It is a Lynchian fantasia in a way that is not annoying, which I think is worth noting because it is a very challenging tone to strike where you can have. You can have, you know, silly jokes and humor, like, not in that episode, but like, Austin. Austin thinking that invoices written for M I S C Misc is a misspelling of mist, and he imagines that someone named Marta is providing mist for the club every morning. But also have, like, kind of creepy, kind of funny, just very unnerving glimpses of healthcare crises in Ventura county all at the same time. And then these just constantly. Subtle's not the right word, but appropriately rhythmic beats of the show's thematic drum where, like, Ashley does not know how healthcare works because she's never had it before. And in fact, the strongest opinion.

[Chris Ryan]

Health insurance.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, sorry. Health insurance. But the strongest opinion she voices at least through five episodes is the preference. Gatorade flavor preference. That's what she feels the most strongly about anything.

[Chris Ryan]

The whole Gatorade thing has killed me in her life.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's remarkable. Did you ever feel. I don't.

[Chris Ryan]

What does he say? In my professional opinion, the quench.

[Andy Greenwald]

The quench is the same.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, the quench is the same. Did the.

[Andy Greenwald]

There are very funny jokes in this season. Did any of it ever take you out? I wondered, like, there's a moment when. Because the one question I had. This is the latest criticism that I'm gonna offer because I think ultimately, I don't believe this to be true. But there were a couple moments when it felt like the characters, particularly Ashley and Austin's intelligence level, toggled based on how good the joke might be. Whereas Austin is sort of the golden retriever suite, not so smart guy. And thinks Misk is missed in that episode alone. And obviously she's been injured and potentially concussed and has a knee and is experiencing torsion in her ovary.

[Chris Ryan]

I like that you said has a knee. Like your Joe Bucks.

[Andy Greenwald]

She has a knee. She's out with a knee.

[Chris Ryan]

A.J. brown's got a knee.

[Andy Greenwald]

She was that she. He, you know, gets the deductible stuff all mixed up. But then also thinks that the hospital pain scale is numbered. Like, letterboxd. Yeah. Which was super funny.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that.

[Andy Greenwald]

It didn't bother me. I wondered if you bumped on it.

[Chris Ryan]

It doesn't bother me. That kind of stuff doesn't bother me. Nor does a guy being obsessed with hot chip really bother me. You know what I mean? Specificity is what roots it in reality to me.

[Andy Greenwald]

Totally. By the way, you should mention the reason she jumps out of the car is not any proof of infidelity. It's that she sees that Eunice's Instagram is private, and yet Austin has been allowed entry into her private Instagram. That is a very contemporary concern. That is not a dramatic act out beat that I would say that my parents would flag were they to know how to turn on Netflix or what Netflix was or what beef is.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the thing is, I do wonder for people who are not, like, glued to their phones, like, how some of this plays. No, I have no problem with the humor. And I also thought, like, that episode four was a really great example of something that's incredibly tense and everything is kind of building towards Ashley's surgery. But he still takes moments to have Austin have that weird interaction with the woman at the. At the vending machine, snack machine, vending machine, and, you know, the woman brought in on a 5150 who's tripping balls. And, like, there's just flourishes. And it feels very, very lived in. Even though it's a Netflix show that has, like, movie stars in it, it feels very much like. And I, I, for me, the reason why four, and especially the end of four, the face Cailee Spaeny makes when Josh's long promised, like, white glove treatment comes through way too late. And the guy is like, oh, I wish Josh had called me earlier because I could have gotten you seen immediately. And we probably like the underlying message being, we could have saved your ovary. Her nostrils flare for just a second and you're like, man, Josh is fucking dead. Like, this is. And it, it is. I always remember Tina Fey Talking about Rachel McAdams in Mean Girls and how, like, you can tell you've got a movie star when she can do a page of dialogue with an eyebrow arch or with, like, with one gesture, you

[Andy Greenwald]

can cut the words.

[Chris Ryan]

And Cailee Spaeny does not have to say a thing, but she is like, this guy just might have robbed me of having a baby. I'm gonna make it my life's mission to bring him down. Now, that fluctuates over the next couple of episodes. Kind of going back to the shiv and Tom corollary that you brought up, but to see her in the very next episode being kind of Carrie Mulligan's therapist as they walk around Ojai looking for this dog is its own kind of thriller. Because you're like, when is she gonna find out? When is she gonna find out?

[Andy Greenwald]

And the way that the characters emotional arcs are not always jammed into each other because they are not in service of the plot and not to compare and contrast. Cause they are very different shows with very different goals. But I think one of the things we were bumping on with Margot's Got Money Troubles is that any interiority of characters, lives or emotional state was so clearly created to be serviced by someone else's. To advance the story of healing and unconventional family structure and its plot. Plot. Plot, yeah. This allows us to have that moment unsaid about how Josh literally leveraged her future over his own concerns by potentially blackmailing her back over medical care. And in, I believe it's the previous episode, there's that absolutely incredible sequence in which Carey Mulligan's character, wearing a red light face mask, is looking at her phone, sees, is trying to follow up on an assignation with an old flame. And then he begs off. And then she immediately Googles and sees on D that he's seeing someone else. And she just starts laughing, slash crying maniacally, and then chases a plan B pill with a glass of red wine. So bravo. This is. This, this is, this is cinema. Yeah. And I, I, and I love it. I do have to ask if, if anything cut close to home to you. I mean, I know that we've probably all been to a Hot Chip show or two in our lives. Have you, have you ever gotten mad at someone for getting Covid at Mezcal Night? That seems CR coded to me.

[Chris Ryan]

Getting mad at somebody for having Covid? No, just like a British guy cough into my mouth. That's how I got covert the first time. I mean, it is what it is. I was so good. I had the fucking Johnson and Johnson. Nobody was touching me for a minute. And then I go to England for the first time and some guy comes up to me after a live show. She goes, mate. And then just starts yelling at me about Crystal palace, like, into my larynx. And I was like, that's it. I had the worst fucking flight anyone in America has ever had coming back. I'm really sorry now, in retrospect, because I was COVID positive. I didn't find it out till I got to LAX because they had those cool tests. And I was like, that's. That's definitive proof.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's a funny story.

[Chris Ryan]

Novel coronavirus rampages through my body despite

[Andy Greenwald]

the best efforts of Woody Johnson's vaccine.

[Chris Ryan]

What was the question? So, no, I don't give a shit about that. And I had some mezcount nights with you, brother. And if I had gotten the big 19 from it, so be it.

[Andy Greenwald]

All right, so what if I didn't mess up mezcal night, but let's make it Beef Season two specific. What if I.

[Chris Ryan]

What if your mezcal nights were great?

[Andy Greenwald]

Thanks, man.

[Chris Ryan]

Remember that mezcal mixtape we used to

[Andy Greenwald]

little tasting flights we would do getting

[Chris Ryan]

tobacco here and then be like, oh,

[Andy Greenwald]

it's almost 11pm Is that bubble gum?

[Chris Ryan]

The funny thing was like, it would be. It would. You'd serve it and it would be like, are you tasting the bubble gum? And I am. I am tasting gasoline. This is fucking firewater, dude.

[Andy Greenwald]

So just staring at you, seeing if you're picking up the subtle notes of like, like saddle leather and regret baked into each class. On Beef Season two, though, Ashley's Covid. Not Ashley, Lindsay. Lindsay's Covid diagnosis keeps her husband from seeing Top Gun Maverick in the theater,

[Chris Ryan]

which it was Bullet Train. Oh, no, it's right. It's Top Gun Maverick. You're right. That's a very great fight.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's very Los Feliz coded.

[Chris Ryan]

It's also just a fight that, like the way they're like, this is the problem with fighting with you is that you like, completely misremember things. Like. Yeah, it's just a very, very accurate depiction of long term relationship fighting.

[Andy Greenwald]

And to Oscar Isaac's credit, his best moments on the show so far are the fights. And there's a moment when she's like, I've caught you in an egregious lie. The lie is whether or not she approved a doorstop that he had sourced on Amazon.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh. She's like, I'm gonna go look this up on Amazon. Right?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes. And she's. And she's like, you absolute idiot. And his face is the most alive that it is in the entire series.

[Chris Ryan]

But it's their kind of chemistry. It's like when he. And I've seen this pointed out online. So I don't wanna pretend like this is like my blind observation here. The moment where he breaks into a British accent to mock her. She breaks a little bit or maybe doesn't, but she certainly has this moment of nervous laughter. And I'm like, you could do that a million times and may not get that reaction. And let's see Anne Hathaway and Jake Gyllenhaal do that. That's all I gotta say. They can.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, her British accent's quite good, right?

[Chris Ryan]

If she was playing Lindsey. I did want to ask you because I think it comes out more in the final episodes, which we can talk about next week. But the international intrigue. Oh, yeah, we didn't talk about that Chairwoman park part. Where did you kind of. How do you feel about that additional sort of three to four characters and a huge other swath of plot being laid on?

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, there's two things. One, when you are this tightly focused on the emotional lives of characters that I'm interested in, add more plot, the plot becomes secondary to that. The plot becomes the scaffolding of the rollercoaster that the people I'm paying attention to are riding on. And if there's an extra loop in there, it's probably better for the characters. That's generally my approach to stuff. When it's working, I only note that stuff being preposterous or outlandish. If I'm not bought in. If I'm bought in, I'm on the ride. Two, something that I really appreciate about the series. And again, I hope we get a chance to talk. I've never. I'm calling him Sonny. Like, I've met him, Never met him. Would love to talk to him about this show. This is.

[Chris Ryan]

Come back on the watch, brother.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is a show that clearly is fueled by someone's interests, that he's interested in things. He's interested in exploring dynamics and has some unique perspective to bring to these dynamics. And so there's a scene when they talk about. Or there's whoosh. The tennis pro brought in from Seoul. And when he and Lindsey are talking about like. Like things that Dr. Kim can do to change how she looks, you know, or improve subtle things. Or even the way the country club wives talk about going to Korea and what Korea can do. So this. This idea of Korean culture, Korean skin care, Korean beauty standards being folded into the batter of upper class California life. That's pretty real.

[Chris Ryan]

I was curious whether or not there were elements of K drama that. Like inter.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh. That we might not even be the.

[Chris Ryan]

The sort of plotting and the way that this is. This is playing out. I mean, obviously K drama is all like BL for a lot of different kinds of storytelling, but I was reading a little bit about it. I can't say that I have watched a ton of it, but I was curious whether or not there were hallmarks. This would be a good thing to talk to Sonny about because I wonder whether or not there's an influence there in terms of the way the plot almost, yes, ends into the stratosphere.

[Andy Greenwald]

But I think that works. I think that'd be very interesting to find out. Cause that's not a genre of show that I'm particularly familiar with. But what it does in practice with this season of television is that it raises the ceiling. The possibilities for the Josh and the two couples skirmishes are limited if they are just bound by the economic and societal limitations of those two characters. You raise the roof when you put in William Fichner's character, who can just put people on planes and just give him advice and. And make things a. Make the people who are higher, which is Josh and Lindsay, make them want something. And then you bring in something on top of that.

[Chris Ryan]

Everybody always wants something. That's the great thing.

[Andy Greenwald]

And you put people on top of that, then suddenly the embezzlement or the blackmail can go higher, the stakes can get bigger. Which works for what the show, to me, works for what the show does. And then when you put two, one Oscar winning, certainly two Oscar caliber actors, I would have to imagine having fun playing these parts, playing these parts with each other as a married couple, which is not something I think they probably. I don't know if they've ever acted together before, but I doubt they've played that. It's awesome. I mean, Song Kang Ho is like a leading man writ large and he is having fun playing a character part. And that is such a luxury on a show like this.

[Chris Ryan]

We'll wrap up Beef Monday with Euphoria. How about that?

[Andy Greenwald]

You thought you were like, guess what, this podcast is vegan now. But nope, this was all I did

[Chris Ryan]

was like, pass along. Like, I guess this should. I shouldn't do the news. You know what I mean? Like, I just was like, hey, you know what? I've seen some mixed reviews of this show.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know, it's like even the greats can be swayed by misinformation campaigns or honeypots.

[Chris Ryan]

It's the first time it's ever happened to me.

[Andy Greenwald]

I know, but Eric Swalwell said the same. You know what I mean? So I'm just saying, not for what brought him down, but he was involved with a, you know, Chinese asset would.

[Chris Ryan]

That never got proven right.

[Andy Greenwald]

I feel like now is the time we could talk.

[Chris Ryan]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike, or an outdoor movie night? You didn't plan for that's when Prime Same Day Delivery has your back getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same Day Delivery. It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to find millions of items delivered fast fast available in select areas. Terms apply.

[Andy Greenwald]

The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with FanDuel predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes and misses. Predict the spread the total points and even the game winner. Sign up for FanDuel Predicts and predict it from the couch. Offered by FanDuel Prediction Markets LLC. Registered Futures Commission Merchant 18 trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools.

[Chris Ryan]

This message is brought to you by Apple Card hey, you could be earning 2% daily cash back on that purchase. And that one and even that one. That's because Apple card users earn 2% daily cash back on every purchase, including everyday items they buy online or in store when using their Apple Card. With Apple Pay, not an Apple Card customer, you can apply in the Wallet app on iPhone subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs bank usa Salt Lake City Branch terms and more at Apple Co benefits about it I want to talk to you about Top Chef instead.

[Andy Greenwald]

It would be incredible if I don't

[Chris Ryan]

know if we have special Top Chef.

[Andy Greenwald]

Litigious Swalwell Stans took down our podcast because of just one straight line.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't really want to talk about the food really. I mean I've been to Cracker Barrel and I liked it. This episode is a grueling experience for the chefs. This is Monday's episode of Top Chef. Obviously they have to make a Cracker Barrel esque item from Cracker Barrels all day menu. They get put into breakfast, lunch and dinner assignments. But it seems like it was a difficult challenge. Even our boy Lawrence just undercooked a bunch of chicken tenders she didn't know was possible. Yeah, that nice pink in the middle that was hardcore. The way Kristin was like, no, you know, she was just like this is. This is not safe to be eating. Do you believe in bringing chicken tenders up to an appropriate temperature before serving?

[Andy Greenwald]

As a. As a parent of children? Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

I just didn't. You also spent a lot of time in England and they got chickens everywhere there.

[Andy Greenwald]

Of all different internal temps.

[Chris Ryan]

You ever know? Come on man. When we watch British food content creators, the the chicken there's just like. And then I'm Just gonna dab that salmonella off the cutting board before I put all my veg on it.

[Andy Greenwald]

The chickens look healthier.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. They are yellow, I'll say that for them. They do this cracker barrel challenge. That's the quick fire. The elimination begins essentially immediately in the studio, where all the chefs, much to their own chagrin, have to make dessert. Because it's always funny. There's like one or two people are like, yeah, I was a pastry chef, but a lot of them fucking hate dessert and making it. And it is going to be judged not by Tom and Kristen and Gail, but by Top Chef fans who live in Charlotte.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. I was gonna say up to that point, I was like, hello, where was the call? Yeah, but.

[Chris Ryan]

And honestly, those fans were delightful. And it. There was like, a nice experience of, like, what it must be like, you know, when Tom is like, this is shit. And like, somebody who doesn't eat that food all the time is like, God damn, that's like the best dessert I've ever had. Yeah. These. These desserts were supposed to mirror several

[Andy Greenwald]

classics, you know, that Queen Charlotte would have enjoyed.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Melissa Benoist, the actress who's on a Netflix show that's set in North Carolina, I can't remember, but she played Supergirl, and she's a huge fan of Top Chef.

[Andy Greenwald]

She's nice.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, she seemed delightful. Yada, yada. Like, Anthony winds up winning the elimination challenge, so it's pretty close to see who goes home. And also the chefs. I don't think the judges elected Anthony. I think he won based on a vote, right?

[Andy Greenwald]

No, the crowd vote.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, it's for the three top.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. And I think the crowd vote had a sway in the final decision making, or at least. Or maybe you're right. Maybe they had a voice.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay. Don't we all? And the more important thing is the elimination. Duane's pretty close to getting cut, I think, because she basically picked a caramel.

[Andy Greenwald]

Caramel cake which looked quite nice and

[Chris Ryan]

made something completely different.

[Andy Greenwald]

And then. And then just poured brown caramel foam on top of it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. And it was. They were pretty savage about twins. But, like, this is the age old Top Chef. Like, are they really only judging these people based on the dish they have in front of them, or is there a. Does your cumulative kind of expertise or skill go into it? I. I usually would say it's impossible not to think of that, you know, and everything somebody's cooked until up until that moment. But Rhoda is a good example of somebody who I thought was like, Running away with it and then went home or not home. Went to last Giant's Kitchen. Anyway, Dwayne doesn't go home. Justin does.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

After the elimination, it's announced that restaurant wars is next.

[Andy Greenwald]

As it always is when there are eat chefs.

[Chris Ryan]

While this is happening, Jennifer, who is Justin's partner in life and also on the show with him and contestant with him. Jennifer, who has been experiencing these, like, some nerve pain in her left arm or in her arm. Now she's experiencing discomfort or, like, some, like, temporary paralysis in her face. It looked like she was Bell's palsy. Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. This is not like, I'm not breaking hipaa like they she's posted on Instagram, but she had an attack of, I think, for the first time in her life, Bell's palsy, which is quite scary and treatable.

[Chris Ryan]

And Joel Embiid had that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Exactly.

[Chris Ryan]

So it looks like Jennifer is now broken the kind of bare, like, seal on, like, you need to go get medical attention and leave the show. Here's where I want to get into it with you.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay. Because I want to get into it when the episode started. So I'm raring to go, but.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, I'm sorry. I was just giving people a recap of what was happening. I wasn't trying because.

[Andy Greenwald]

Because I think the. As you should have, the end of the episode shenanigans that led into Last Chance Kitchen.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Andy Greenwald]

Is about who actually has been eliminated and who will be rejoining the show.

[Chris Ryan]

So for people who forget, Seger was eliminated last week and did not go to Last Chance Kitchen. And when Last Chance Kitchen started, Tom was like, this is very uncommon.

[Andy Greenwald]

And we will explain at the start of next week's episode, which they did not.

[Chris Ryan]

And then Jennifer goes home for a medical at the end of this episode, and her partner Justin has been sent to Last Chance Kitchen, but is given the opportunity to simply try go back into the show as the most recently eliminated and replace Jennifer. And he turns that down to go be with Jennifer, but then does do Last Chance Kitchen eventually.

[Andy Greenwald]

So this reinforces something that has been explained, I think, or at least alluded to. Last Chance Kitchen shoots later.

[Chris Ryan]

So two days later in this case.

[Andy Greenwald]

So Justin had time to, having withdrawn from the competition, see that she was not having something more extreme. You know, there was worry she was having a stroke or something. She's been diagnosed, she's safe. And she encourages him to give it another shot and to go into Last Chance Kitchen, which he does briefly.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. And loses to Rhoda and Rhoda is not then sent back into the competition. So the. I suppose that the suggestion is that Seeger is come back next week.

[Andy Greenwald]

This has not been confirmed, but this is obvious, and they're playing very coy with it in ways that are.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I don't think it's good television.

[Andy Greenwald]

I don't either. And I would say it's particularly not good television because this was a catastrophically bad episode of Top Chef across the board. Because it did three of my least favorite things that the show seems to inevitably happen, have to do at some point during a season, maybe for budgetary reasons. Got the big three. Big three of Top Chef. No nos.

[Chris Ryan]

Let me guess. One.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

A corporate tie in.

[Andy Greenwald]

A absolutely wedged in, nonsensical corporate tie in that Cracker Barrel. Nice restaurant to go to when you're on a road trip. No problem. But to have Kristen be like, we all know and love their famous crispy edged pancakes. Which camera? No, we don't. We don't all know that. Thank you. Go on 2.

[Chris Ryan]

Making them do back to backs.

[Andy Greenwald]

Nope.

[Chris Ryan]

Making them.

[Andy Greenwald]

You sound like Joel Embiid. He hates back to backs.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, the fucking bell's policy came from somewhere.

[Andy Greenwald]

Just saying.

[Chris Ryan]

And how about them never leaving the studio?

[Andy Greenwald]

Ding. Absolutely ridiculous. Especially when Last Chance Kitchen is there too. And the attempts to make it classy and, like, hang different lights and then bring normals in to taste their food. The entire episode feels claustrophobic and detached from any actual reality or presence. I will give them some grace here, because last year when it was Top Chef Canada and it was like Top Chef warehouse in Canada, or so we're told, was really, really egregious. If you have to do one of these to then pay for or save money for some larger field studies later. Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. But, yeah, that was two desserts.

[Andy Greenwald]

I don't care about desserts. Chefs don't care about. No, but I also think that it's not good television when two thirds of the contestants are like, thank you for asking me to do something I don't like doing and I'm not particularly good at. Yeah, that's not very compelling. And then I also know that Andy

[Chris Ryan]

is the kind of guy who sends me Instagrams of steamed fish and is like, I am Paul Atreides now. This is my dream in life, is

[Andy Greenwald]

to eat this very, very clean, very clean fish. I've also. I've also ordered cheese for dessert. So, like, let's, you know, let's be honest. I like a dessert here. I'm not saying I don't I can even like a dessert, but if they don't like it, you know what I like?

[Chris Ryan]

A fucking ice cream cone. You know, like, let's just be honest. Like, I kind of like. I don't. It doesn't need to be too fancy. I like a bread pudding.

[Andy Greenwald]

Baking is challenging. I even like baking. The Great British Baking Show I enjoy as well. But baking primarily is science and ratios and not, like, wild improvisation, which some of these chefs maybe are more talented at. And I also think that, like, the palate fatigue of all these people just shoveling in the sugar makes for kind of a muddled judging experience.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I have to imagine that that is difficult.

[Andy Greenwald]

I still think this has been a strong season editorially and vibes wise, certainly, but I am very unimpressed with the contestants so far. Unless the rota elimination really was, like, accidentally axing your main character too early and she will rise triumphant from the underworld. Like Norpheus, who didn't look backwards. I don't really think that there is a. Maybe someone will emerge. Sometimes people go on a heater later.

[Chris Ryan]

I think Anthony and Lawrence are clearly the two best chefs, and they are kind of being treated as supporting characters to the twins, Jennifer and Justin. Dwen's got a lot of camera time.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think these are very charming people.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Andy Greenwald]

But I don't.

[Chris Ryan]

Oscar, you know, and the show, it

[Andy Greenwald]

struggles year to year. I mean, it only can rise as high as the contestants raise it. And. And Tristan was another. Tristan and Buddha are generational, like, in the sense of, like, what they were bringing. Point of view.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, we've had wire to wire guys a couple of seasons in a row

[Andy Greenwald]

now, and guys that, you know, not

[Chris Ryan]

in a row, but we've had them

[Andy Greenwald]

guys who elevate everyone else, because if there's a front runner, people are chasing or trying to get more experimental. And, like, this season, we seem to have a lot of just fine folks whose highs are not nearly as high. So that all of that was diminishing the experience. It was a weak episode. But then to have it. To kind of have it both ways and be like, there's an exciting mystery to come. We've never had this happen before when really, it's just a bummer that one of your contestants had a health issue and you have to bring back someone.

[Chris Ryan]

I just don't under. I think that Survivor is just very communicative about, like, this person needs to go home, and here's what's gonna happen, and here's this, and here's that. Like, there's A lot of over explaining and I don't understand why they couldn't have done something in the edit to be like. The reason Seeger is not in Last Chance Kitchen is because Last Chance Kitchen shoots several days after the actual competition shoots on any given moment. And Seeger. It was a. We were aware that Jennifer was not going to be able to finish the competition, but I. I guess my.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, the reason is because my confusion is it would have spoiled the Justin element.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. But they gave Jennifer this morning that she was gonna be eliminated if she missed any more quickfires or any other elements of the show. To me, that kind of indicated that they did not think that she was going to be on the show long term. It's totally fine. I didn't want them to kick her off in any way. But there's something strange about, like, where has Seeger been now for like three days?

[Andy Greenwald]

He's in the stew room. He's just waiting. Focus drinking Josh Wines.

[Chris Ryan]

Right. So we got an email from a friend of Seeger's or from a former colleague of Seeger's that was like written in the first person, just not that feeling. Like the show is not capturing his personality, you know, and that I'll be interested to see what happens if he is back next week.

[Andy Greenwald]

Do you think we'll have a new Seeger when he comes back humbled, rested, ready?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I mean, there is an element of that as well where it's like, did this guy get to, like, go home and conceptualize recipes for three days while everybody else is doing back to back cracker barrel dessert challenges?

[Andy Greenwald]

Can I throw something out there? Yeah. It's too soon to go back to an All Stars season.

[Chris Ryan]

You want?

[Andy Greenwald]

I think we might be approaching the time. They've done this a few other times where there have been some returning favorites who get another chance.

[Chris Ryan]

Criston guarantees Jennifer can return whenever she wants.

[Andy Greenwald]

Sure. Although I, you know, she seems very talented, but there was. I can't. Like, when Justin was talking about her and actually his behavior towards her and his lightened demeanor in Last Chance Kitchen when he was freed of the stress of how she was doing was very touching and I think really appropriate. And they seem like they have a good relationship, but he's like, she was crushing this competition before this happened and I did not see evidence of that. So it's less.

[Chris Ryan]

When does her arm get screwed up? Like the second episode.

[Andy Greenwald]

Right. It's less her opportunity to excel, though. Maybe she will when she comes back. It's that there have been years when they have sort of just given a little goose it a little bit by bringing back some, like, almost weres and also Rands just to give it a little more verve. And I think maybe we're headed back to that. How would you have done? First of all, we're a veil. That email address is out there to come taste things, preferably not a dessert challenge in the beautiful state of North Carolina.

[Chris Ryan]

I would have loved to have done the, the, the, the pepper judging.

[Andy Greenwald]

What.

[Chris Ryan]

It would have been really interesting.

[Andy Greenwald]

You hold on. We might have to switch the lights for this. You wanted to be in the 120 degree greenhouse eating a progressive meal of catastrophically hot peppers.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, what do you want me to go judge Cracker Barrel food? Like, I. I want to go experience something that I'll never.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm gonna go on the right. I also would like to have new experiences. I would like to have. No, you don't.

[Chris Ryan]

You wanna have the clean white fish challenge.

[Andy Greenwald]

Delicious. I'm just saying I don't want to experience all the new things still awaiting me on camera. Do you know what I mean?

[Chris Ryan]

I'm not worried about that. I have a pretty good constitution when it comes to that stuff.

[Andy Greenwald]

How would you do on Hot Ones?

[Chris Ryan]

Here's. I've talked about this before. No one can hit me when it comes to Szechuan spice.

[Andy Greenwald]

Like, like, I didn't know this about you. Szechuan, like the numbing spice.

[Chris Ryan]

I'll fucking die eating that stuff. Like really fly by Jing, extra fucking spicy on everything.

[Andy Greenwald]

But numbing spice is different than like the Carolina reaper spice.

[Chris Ryan]

I know. I'm saying, like, I have a different relationship to different kinds of spices. The reapers, I never ate. Danny Chow ate one in front of me at Grantland once, and I thought he was gonna have a fucking heart attack. I find. I just. I'd love to know. I haven't, I haven't. I haven't really dipped my toe into that.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is what keeps you young and makes me quite old, you know, your willingness to try new things. Yeah, but you.

[Chris Ryan]

I think. I think that I just have like a much more like, kind of like adventurous palette. I think you know more what you like.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, I like to try almost anything. But I am not a fan of extremity for extremity's sake. In television or in spice.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that the Szechuan stuff opened up a new dimension of, like, how I like to eat food. Do you like leaking everywhere?

[Andy Greenwald]

That's the thing when, like, your ears start ringing and you're a little bit like in this reality, but also Desmond from Lost and experiencing parts of your childhood at the same time.

[Chris Ryan]

Daniel Faraday is whispering to me, do you want to do any sports before we go for After Dark?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. Where are you at? It's Draft Day.

[Chris Ryan]

Before we get to Draft Day, I want to ask you how many games in a row the Flyers have to win before you pay attention.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's interesting that they are having a

[Chris Ryan]

moment right now on the precipice of sweeping the Pittsburgh Pink ones.

[Andy Greenwald]

First of all, Pittsburgh is a friend to us. Sure, they've given us the pit. They've given us Bane. Bane. Bane's greatest moment. They should have a plaque there. Sandwiches with French fries in them. Great town. This year alone, I've been on the record as saying something true, which was. I don't think it was controversial, but it wasn't my greatest moment where I said the impediment to me watching Heated Rivalry wasn't the. The full frontal sex scenes. It was ice hockey. I am so deeply uninterested in ice hockey. I haven't watched your beloved Shorzy. No, I'm not a hockey guy.

[Chris Ryan]

Playoff hockey, there's nothing like it.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's what everyone says.

[Chris Ryan]

There's just nothing like it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Find a new slant. What do you. Everyone. The only argument anyone I've ever heard, I've ever heard anyone make for hockey is play of hockey.

[Chris Ryan]

This guy tripping on the Flyers, getting his head beaten in at the end of game two. Yeah, and they just fucked him up in game three. Like, they came back five, two.

[Andy Greenwald]

It was just like, how many rounds of playoffs await. This is the first round multiple.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, so I'll hit you up if we make it to, like, the conference finals.

[Andy Greenwald]

How about that? I mean, I. I am rooting for the Flyers above all other teams.

[Chris Ryan]

And they're also, like, the thing you might like about them. Young guys who seem to like each other.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's what draws me to most things. Weirdly, I like beef, which is not about young guys liking each other.

[Chris Ryan]

As far as the Sixers go, that was pretty cool. Not getting my hopes up, but yes, that was very cool.

[Andy Greenwald]

My trademark luck didn't turn that game,

[Chris Ryan]

which was you checking in on it.

[Andy Greenwald]

I thought by checking in on it, it would cause the entire team to suffer. Bell's policy.

[Chris Ryan]

My question I have about draft day is, what are you going to do with all your time when draft is over?

[Andy Greenwald]

First of all, unlike Mike Vrabel, I'm not taking off day three of the draft to Pursue my mental health. I will be locked in across all three days. What's nice about the draft for me,

[Chris Ryan]

honestly, the funniest thing anyone's ever done has been like, I'm gonna go into counseling after the first draft, after the first two rounds.

[Andy Greenwald]

That shows respect for all involved here. I.

[Chris Ryan]

Can you imagine, like, how that conversation with his wife went, where he was like, I definitely need to go see a professional. After I make four draft picks.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes. After I spend time with the fellas, like, I definitely schedule all things for after the NFL season.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm going to go to Sedona after that to just kind of like, rebuild. Yeah. Debrief on the whole thing.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, that's right. Me and Elliot Wolf will bring the whiteboard. I know.

[Chris Ryan]

What's your next obsession after the draft?

[Andy Greenwald]

You don't understand. The thing about the draft that I like so much is that after the draft, we come away with, you know, four to eight new characters in my life who actually have no accomplishments in Midnight Green or Kelly Green, as the case may be. Thus I can then spend the next three or four months cleanly fantasizing about them all becoming hall of Fame players and getting along. That will help me sleep.

[Chris Ryan]

And driving.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, that will. Yes, yes.

[Chris Ryan]

I shouldn't have said that.

[Andy Greenwald]

I always. Well, or Big Dom will drive them. That's what I thrive on. That's my preferred mode of sports. I'm beginning to think that I'm an off season warrior, you know.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, I definitely think you are.

[Andy Greenwald]

Have you always thought that?

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. Not in a bad way. But I think that this is where you thrive is in narratives.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

And in media, but not necessarily in

[Andy Greenwald]

game tape and in like, parasocial friendship. Projecting.

[Chris Ryan]

That's fine.

[Andy Greenwald]

Of like. Well, you're all in the same draft class, fellas. And then the Instagram mods for, like, Philadelphia Eagles will post them of, like, showing up at the NovaCare Complex. And I'll be like, look at that. They fit right in.

[Chris Ryan]

We should do a bit of you doing the Carey Mulligan thing from Beef. Like, wearing a red light mask and,

[Andy Greenwald]

like, flipping through and just me rewatching. When Howie Roseman called Jalex Hunt and he said, what's up, big pimpin? But I'm crying because there have been nights like that. Here's something. Here's something you can guarantee if you ever need my attention, anyone in the. Anywhere in the world, you people I know, strangers just go near me and play the video of how we drafted Cooper to Gene. It's like three minutes cut together to make it seem like it was fait accompli. You know, it was all easy. If that autoplays, in any moment of

[Chris Ryan]

my life, you're taking a bump. It's like I'm just.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's like you. You at hot pot. I dissociate completely, and I live only in that reality.

[Chris Ryan]

It's been wonderful talking with you today. I did. I really did enjoy talking about Beef with your.

[Andy Greenwald]

It was good. See? Yeah. The only thing that beef was lacking. Chili crisp.

[Chris Ryan]

Seriously, Sarah, Kaya, Kai, thank you so much for producing and cutting and directing and lighting and making sure that we put our best foot forward.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, I think our wardrobe person took the day off.

[Chris Ryan]

Otherwise, Monday. On Monday, we're going to talk about Euphoria, episode three, and we're gonna talk about maybe the last few episodes of Beef and maybe there's some other stuff to chat about.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, we actually made a blood oath that we would check out the Audacity at some point.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

So we should probably do that.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm going to Ojai this weekend, so. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Boots on the ground reporting.

[Chris Ryan]

I know I'll get to the bottom of Burberry.

[Andy Greenwald]

Would you begin Monday's show with kind of like a verbal column in the style of Thomas Friedman in the New York Times about taking a cab ride and what you observe.

[Chris Ryan]

Farm to table restaurant.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

People are wondering what you could do it. Thanks, everybody, for listening and watching. We'll talk to you guys on Monday.