The Watch — October 23, 2025

Podcast: The Watch
Hosts: Chris Ryan & Andy Greenwald
Episode: Catching Up on ‘Slow Horses,’ ‘The Lowdown,’ and ‘The Chair Company.’ Plus, the ‘Black Rabbit’ Creators!

Episode Overview

This episode finds Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald catching up on some major TV series, including "Slow Horses," "The Lowdown," and "The Chair Company," before welcoming writers and creators of Netflix’s "Black Rabbit," Zach Balin and Kate Sussman, for an in-depth interview. The hosts dissect the shifting television landscape, provide sharp and affectionate critiques, and delve into industry anecdotes with their signature mix of humor and insight. The conversation traverses the tonal challenges of genre TV, nostalgic industry musings, and the meticulous craft behind character-driven drama.

Main Topics & Timestamps

1. Light Banter, Industry News, and TV's Shifting Landscape
   [01:04]–[10:10]
2. ‘Slow Horses’ Season Review & Discussion
   [10:10]–[27:36]
3. Deep Dive: ‘The Lowdown’
   [27:36]–[41:19]
4. Chair Company, Tim Robinson, and Modern Comedy
   [43:25]–[53:59]
5. Interview: Zach Balin & Kate Sussman, ‘Black Rabbit’ Creators
   [54:55]–[94:55]

1. Light Banter, Industry News, & TV Nostalgia

[01:04]–[10:10]

• Chris and Andy chat about recent TV obsessions and their podcast rhythms.
• Andy jokes about "quiet quitting" his podcast duties after being left out of a "Rewatchables" episode about his favorite film, "Sneakers."
• The duo reminisce on the return of NBA on NBC and nostalgia for "event" TV:
  “What would happen if NBC was just like, ‘We’re just going to run from the 80s, dude… like Run and everything is vintage’...” — Chris Ryan [04:34]
• Conversation pivots to the news that Adam Driver and Steven Soderbergh pitched a Ben Solo "Star Wars" film, only for Bob Iger to shut it down:
  “It’s fucking nuts that that’s Bob Iger’s bright line that can’t be crossed.” — Andy Greenwald [07:06]

2. ‘Slow Horses’ Season Review & Discussion

[10:10]–[27:36]

London Gossip and Filming Tidbits

[10:20]

• Andy recounts how "Slow Horses" is so embedded in London life that you might stumble into a film shoot by accident:
  “...they realized that everyone else on the bus was an extra because they were filming Slow Horses season six...” — Andy Greenwald [10:27]

Tone, Comedy, and Stakes

[11:04]–[17:24]

• Andy expresses wavering commitment after episode four’s comedic absurdity (notably a Rube Goldberg paint pot death):
  “...the show has pushed too far into comic absurdity that its attempts to create stakes... are rendered moot to me.” — Andy Greenwald [12:14]
• Chris counters, appreciating the unpredictability and "stupid things happening" in a world prone to chaos.
• Both reflect on the show's tonal balancing act between situational comedy and spy thriller, noting "Slow Horses" leans more into the sitcom side.

Long-Running TV Structure and Complaints

[18:56]–[23:20]

• Discussion of static character archetypes (e.g., Jackson Lamb as omniscient) and the sitcom parallels. “It’s a comedy... but these people are completely implausible as MI5 agents, and that’s the bit.” — Andy Greenwald [19:32] “If the comp for the show is Frasier... seems churlish to complain about how Niles is prissy.” — Andy Greenwald [16:20]
• Praise for Gary Oldman’s performance—craving more vulnerability from Lamb.

Series Arc and What’s Working

[23:20]–[27:36]

• The compression of space and time this season is lauded as adding urgency. “...really does feel like these people are racing against a clock and paired up in interesting ways.” — Chris Ryan [22:28]
• The hosts want "a higher narrative body count"—essentially more risk and consequence.

3. Deep Dive: ‘The Lowdown’

[27:36]–[41:19]

Unpredictable, Urgent, Lyrical TV

[27:39]–[33:20]

• Chris calls "The Lowdown" one of his favorite shows of the year—a show that mixes comfort (“an album by a great band”) and harrowing Americana.
• The Dinklage guest episode and the scene where Lee (Ethan Hawke) is led through a sinister rural cop party are cited as highlights.

“It has the energy, if not the firepower, of the Boogie Nights firecracker scene, except this is the rural outdoor version.” — Andy Greenwald [29:33]

• Andy marvels at how the show juggles mystery, urgency, and atmospheric digressions.

Tulsa as Character & Casting Brilliance

[33:20]–[40:07]

• They praise Sterling Harjo’s ability to weave Native American perspectives into the show, deepening the narrative’s weight.
• The actor ensemble—Kyle MacLachlan, Keith David, Paul Sparks—is described as a murderers’ row (“...a palpable energy exchange when you watch actors who really fucking love acting act.” — Andy Greenwald [34:41])
• Touch on Graham Greene’s last appearance and what that brings emotionally.

Show’s Soul & Ethos

[40:07]–[41:19]

• The show allows actors to shine without treating the lead as the sole "sun" of the series—every character resonates.

4. Chair Company, Tim Robinson, and Modern Comedy

[43:25]–[53:59]

Tim Robinson’s Comic Genius

[43:25]–[47:20]

• Chris and Andy discuss Tim Robinson’s new HBO Max series, "Chair Company," summarizing it as “Parallax View meets The Office.”
• The hosts laugh over favorite scenes:
  “Him being like, ‘Give me a reason to call my lawyer, yo...’” — Chris Ryan [43:57]

Artistic Stretch and Comparisons

[47:20]–[49:23]

• Andy analyzes Robinson’s artistry:
  “He is the patron saint of a certain type of 2020s American masculinity.” — Andy Greenwald [46:36]
• Mentions the kinship to Will Ferrell, Danny McBride, and even P.T. Anderson’s “absurdist” humor.

The Absurdity of TV Pitches

[51:23]

• Andy jokes about how Robinson’s show pitch must have been:
  “I sit on a chair, it breaks. What the fuck happens next? And [HBO] are like, here’s a bag of money...” — Andy Greenwald [51:23]

Meta TV Criticism

[52:33]–[53:59]

• Banter about the proliferation of high-concept streaming shows versus the simplicity of Robinson’s premise.

5. Interview: Zach Balin & Kate Sussman, ‘Black Rabbit’

[54:55]–[94:55]

Show’s Tone and Influences

[55:44]–[57:51]

• "Black Rabbit" balances operatic family drama with relentless, realistic stakes; influences cited include "Uncut Gems," "Before the Devil Knows You’re Dead," and "Michael Clayton."
• On blending entertainment and heavy themes:
  “Could you tell a really emotional story... but also keep your foot on the gas of the kind of knives that are getting thrown at the guys the whole time?” — Zach Balin [55:44]

Realism, Addiction, Plausibility

[57:51]–[62:01]

• The creative team made sure all financial and lifestyle details—apartment rents, car types—were plausible for the characters.
  “He’s someone who is constantly, like, on the edge of winning... is he the atom bomb of himself?” — Zach Balin [61:08]

Narrative Pacing and Flashbacks

[62:01]–[69:04]

• The show’s structure intentionally staggers tension; the Laura Linney “block” is praised for character depth.
• Flashbacks were created late and serve to reveal pivotal life moments naturally rather than as exposition.

Acting, Improv, and Rewriting

[69:04]–[74:44]

• Bateman and Law infused the characters with surprise and dynamism; on Bateman’s Vince:
  “This guy doesn’t cry...” — Kate Sussman [70:12] “Jason brought such an indignant attitude... like, I can’t believe I have to ask for a Coke here.” — Zach Balin [70:46]

• The creative process was open to improvisation, provided dramatic intent stayed intact.

• Authenticity of New York as setting, city as character, is central—production benefited from post-strike resource availability and city enthusiasm.

Restaurants as Microcosm

[79:46]–[84:47]

• Inspiration from real NYC restaurants and scandals (e.g., Dressler, Spotted Pig) shaped the show’s themes of allure, ambition, and self-destruction.
  “...places that we went. And we were just really... captivated by how sexy and alluring and cool... but then when, you know, the Spotted Pig had this huge scandal…” — Kate Sussman [81:42]

The Grit and Glamour of NYC

[86:43]–[89:34]

• The show intentionally contrasts glamorous nightlife with the slog and solitude of daytime prep—reflecting the wear and tear, and impossible expectations, of running a restaurant in NYC.
• "Every night I put on this show. But then at the end of the night... it's not glamorous. Pretty lonely guy, you know, who's... like taking out a mortgage every single night." — Chris Ryan [84:10]

Future Storytelling and Creative Intent

[90:16]–[94:49]

• Balin and Sussman express excitement over TV as a medium for complex, adult, character-driven, “labyrinthine” drama but acknowledge it’s a challenging sell.
  “We did not want to make second screen TV... if you’re willing to pay attention, there will be a lot of reveals...” — Zach Balin [93:15]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On TV's Comfort and Comedy:
  “If the comp for the show is Frasier, then it seems churlish to complain about how Niles is prissy all the time,” — Andy Greenwald [16:20]

• On Tim Robinson’s Appeal:
  “He is the patron saint of a certain type of 2020s American masculinity… a frustration and desire for specialness that seethes from that swollen vein in his neck.” — Andy Greenwald [46:36]

• On the Allure of New York Nightlife:
  “What the show... [is] about is somewhere where what the presentation is and what the show is is not what's actually happening. And, like, reflects a lot about the brothers.” — Kate Sussman [83:46]

Key Takeaways

• "Slow Horses" continues to oscillate between satire and spy drama, embracing comedic set-pieces while also (occasionally) hinting at real dramatic stakes—though Andy is craving more risk and novelty from the show’s formula.
• "The Lowdown" is praised for its tonal sophistication, stellar ensemble, and ability to move between hangout vibes and unsettling, conspiratorial dread, cementing its place as a sleeper hit of the year.
• "Chair Company" represents a new apex for Tim Robinson’s “silly with soul” comic persona, with both Chris and Andy in awe of his ability to stretch absurdity into new formats.
• "Black Rabbit" is revealed to be the product of deep, authentic research and a creative process open to improvisation, resulting in a drama both propulsive and painfully relatable—anchored in the unique tensions and possibilities of New York City.
• The episode, as always, is marked by Chris and Andy’s deft interplay—mixing nostalgia, sharp analysis, and pure comedic joy across TV’s evolving landscape.

For Further Listening

• [24:30] "Slow Horses": Deep dive on episodic structure, Gary Oldman's performance, and criticism of static archetypes.
• [29:31] "The Lowdown": Highlight breakdown of Kyle MacLachlan’s chilling scene and the show’s ability to mix genre.
• [43:25] "Chair Company": Hilarious breakdown of Tim Robinson’s method and comic archetype.
• [54:55] "Black Rabbit" Interview: Process behind the show, authentic NYC vibes, Bateman/Law dynamic, and creative philosophy.

This episode offers an essential snapshot of where prestige—and comfort—TV is in Fall 2025: self-aware, genre-hopping, and led by creators invested in both realism and inventiveness. The creators of "Black Rabbit" shine a light on the value of specificity and risk in TV drama, while Chris and Andy’s banter reminds listeners that even as content multiplies, strong voices and sharp critique remain indispensable.