‘Euphoria’ Season 3, Episode 5 and the ‘Cape Fear’ Trailer. Plus, Why ‘Legends’ Is Crime Drama Excellence.

Summary

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The Watch – Episode Summary

Date: May 11, 2026
Hosts: Chris Ryan & Andy Greenwald (The Ringer)
Episode Focus:

• Euphoria Season 3, Episode 5 deep-dive
• First look at Apple’s Cape Fear limited series
• Enthusiastic review of Netflix’s Legends as crime drama excellence
• Sidebars: Friday the 13th’s Crystal Lake, shifting streaming TV strategies, and CR’s (Chris Ryan) Philadelphia sports pain

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Episode Overview

This rich, wide-ranging episode finds Chris and Andy at their pop culture best: trading barbs about CR’s Philly travels and sports heartbreak, before moving into lively, in-depth conversations on three TV series (Euphoria, Legends, the upcoming Cape Fear adaptation), including notable moments and philosophical tangents about TV’s shifting landscape.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Cold Open & Banter: CR Month Becomes CR Year

[01:42 – 03:39]

• Chris returns from a humiliating trip to a Sixers playoff game in Philadelphia, joking about suffering as a sports fan.
• Andy riffs on how “CR Month” is expanding, noting Chris is on the cultural crest with his recent takes, influencing even Charli XCX’s aesthetic.
  Memorable exchange:
  • Andy: “You are the tone setter.” [04:42]
  • Chris: “I feel like I brought Hot Girl Cigarette Summer to the forefront.” [04:37]
• Brief cultural news chat: Supreme Court redistricting in Virginia, Janet Mills in Maine, Charli XCX’s “rock music” video and the return of cigarettes in pop culture.

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2. Trailer Talk: Apple’s Cape Fear

[06:11 – 13:14]

• New 10-episode Apple TV+ adaptation from Nick Antosca, starring Javier Bardem (as Max Cady), Amy Adams, and Patrick Wilson.
• Trailer impressions:
  • Andy appreciates the horror focus—“psychological horror, but certainly a monster movie with Javier Bardem playing the monster.” [07:13]
  • Both wonder if Amy Adams and Patrick Wilson are bland, “a delicious mayonnaise sandwich on white bread,” yet recognize their acting pedigree.
• Generational Conversation:
  • Chris questions if younger audiences will connect with the material.
    “Is there a contemporary, perhaps younger generation relationship with the story, the characters of Cape Fear?” [10:31]
  • Debate over Apple TV+'s strategy: Are prestige adaptations for nostalgia-driven adults, or are they misjudging the demographic?

[13:14 – 15:55]

• Discussion veers into Apple’s mysterious programming approach:
  • Their audience targets appear opaque; “I think they just put stuff out,” Andy muses.
  • Streaming numbers for Apple originals (Shrinking, The Pluribus, Widow’s Bay) are parsed, tying budget to elusive ROI.

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3. The IP Lifecycle: Crystal Lake and the 23-Year Journey of TV Franchise Development

[16:03 – 26:56]

• Chris gives a capsule history of attempts to bring Friday the 13th to TV: pilots, rights issues, many showrunners, and eventually NBC/Peacock’s Crystal Lake set to premiere Oct 15, starring Linda Cardellini.
• Brian Fuller’s brief, messy involvement and creative control disputes, plus rumors about A24, Charlize Theron, and a Pamela Voorhees focus.
• Both laugh about how little horror franchises have historically cared for backstory logic (see also: Nightmare on Elm Street), poking fun at “trauma explained” prequels.
• Andy draws a line to the prequel series Bates Motel: “Not unexplored territory to do this, and I guess it was relatively successful.”
• Larger point: IP strip-mining is exhausting, but sometimes perseverance brings a worthwhile show—“It is hard to make anything, and even harder to make something good.” [25:40]

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4. Show Enthusiasm: Netflix’s Legends

[26:56 – 39:51]

• Both hosts are delighted by Legends, a Netflix import written by Neil Forsyth (The Gold), starring Tom Burke, Steve Coogan, and Hayley Squires.
• Summary:
  • Set in 1990s England; focuses on Customs officers infiltrating the country’s heroin pipeline.
  • “It is absolutely suffused with British specificity…yet it feels galactic in terms of, like, ‘I understand everything about this.’” (Andy, [32:29])
  • Praises the “brutal efficiency” of Forsyth’s writing, which wrings maximal drama and character from procedural material without wasted time.
  • “Characters go from unknowns to deep undercover within 55 minutes. There’s not a wasted second.” (Andy, [34:29])
• Acting Highlights:
  • Tom Burke hailed as “the next that guy” ([36:49])
  • Steve Coogan’s transformation into a serious, Michael Caine-esque leader is “really great,” with a fun meta twist given the actor’s real-life history—“He’s got screen presence…he’s able to command the screen and be the load-bearing wall of the show.” (Chris, [39:00])
• Crime drama beats are perfectly executed; the show is lauded for “clarity of intention and tone” ([37:21]), and being as riveting as, yet utterly different from, contemporary flashier fare.

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5. Euphoria Season 3, Episode 5 Breakdown: “This Little Piggy”

[39:51 – 61:36]

Entry for Andy:

• Andy continues his “pilgrimage” as a first-time viewer (“my knowledge of Euphoria lore is limited, but my heart is open”—Andy, [40:25]), with Chris as his guide.

The 50-Foot Woman Sequence:

• The episode’s opening—Cassie’s (Sydney Sweeney) OnlyFans-driven, B-movie-infused montage (her as an outsized, destructive 50-foot woman) is a creative flashpoint.
  • “We get gigantic replicas of Sydney Sweeney’s breasts smashing into skyscraper windows…” (Chris, [41:00])
  • Chris and Andy debate whether the bit is biting satire, a cultural Rorschach, or just “off-putting and bizarre.”
    “Is it a satire of Sydney Sweeney’s public persona… I found it off-putting and bizarre.” (Andy, [43:24])
• Dissects the show’s engagement with the “meta” discourse around Sweeney’s stardom and politics.
  • “There’s no such thing as bad press – and here we are talking about a show you’d never watched before…” (Chris, [45:14])
  • Andy: “The show’s worldview fundamentally mistakes cynicism for insight, that something powerful is revealed just by pointing a camera at it and being like, ‘Isn’t that evil?’” ([46:23])

Character & Theme Analysis:

• Both found the episode frustrating; repeated, almost parodic suffering for Rue (+ Zendaya) and Nate (finger hacking), and an increasingly meta commentary on fame, old vs new media, and (as Chris puts it) “whether you can have a soul and live in greater LA.”
• Standout: the Alamo (Ayo Akinoye Agbaje) and Maddie scene at Bob’s Big Boy, strong acting from supporting cast, and the irrepressible flourish given to even minor scenes.
• Ongoing motif: Euphoria as performance art, pushing both its characters and audience into discomfort and reflection (Andy’s riff on the Venice Biennale, [59:00]).
• Andy’s closing assessment: “There's an element of provocation inherent in this season that I respect…It is not a usual relationship between artist and audience that we find on television.” ([60:23])
• Chris: “I just found…this episode hit different because we’ve literally seen them go through those experiences before.” ([57:05])

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6. Storytime: Philly Sports Sadness and Knicks/Sixers Culture War

[63:09 – 76:22]

• Chris recounts attending a Sixers playoff game:
  • Anticipates home court advantage, is instead surrounded by a majority of Knicks fans.
  • Encounters Knicks fans filming themselves in the bathroom, chanting on IG Live (“I may be on some guy’s Instagram having a halftime piss and thinking about what led me to this place in my life. 48 years old, honestly, just being humiliated…” – Chris, [69:52])
  • Mixes humor with real sense of sports heartbreak and city pride.
• Andy joins in reflecting on early sport fandom, Philly’s tortured relationship with its own teams, and the general bleakness of the modern franchise era.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “You are the vanguard of culture.” – Andy, [04:37]
• “It's like enjoying a delicious mayonnaise sandwich on white bread.” (on Amy Adams & Patrick Wilson in Cape Fear) – Andy, [08:55]
• “It is hard to make anything, full stop, and then it's very hard to make something good.” (on IP and Crystal Lake) – Andy, [25:40]
• “Characters go from unknowns to deep undercover within 55 minutes. There's not a wasted second.” (on Legends) – Andy, [34:29]
• “Is it a satire of Sydney Sweeney's public persona… I found it off-putting and bizarre.” – Andy, [43:24]

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Episode Utilities

For New/Curious Listeners:

• The conversation flows from lighthearted sports humiliation to insightful TV/film analysis, keeping the signature Watch mix of humor, cynicism, and genuine enthusiasm.
• The Legends segment is the highlight for crime drama fans, and the Euphoria discussion is must-hear for anyone interested in pop culture meta-commentary.
• Timestamps above are optimal jump-in points; ad breaks and outro are skipped.

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Complete Episode Timeline:

• [01:42] Host banter, “CR Month”/sports misery
• [06:11] Apple’s Cape Fear trailer deep-dive
• [16:03] The odyssey of Crystal Lake/Friday the 13th on TV
• [26:56] Full-throated review: Netflix’s Legends
• [39:51] Euphoria S3E5 breakdown: meta-madness and suffering
• [63:09] Chris’s Philly sports trip: misery loves company

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Tone

Witty, honest, referential, and, in true The Watch fashion, just enough world-weariness to cut the fanboy energy. The episode expertly blends pop culture criticism, personal anecdote, and industry insight—all with a dash of classic Philly bitterness.

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Transcript

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[Andy Greenwald]

Foreign.

[Chris Ryan]

This episode of the Watch is presented to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike, or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for? That's when Prime Same Day Delivery has your back getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery. It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to find millions of items delivered fast, available in select areas. Terms apply. I need support staff to clear the

[Andy Greenwald]

room, Stand up and walk now.

[Chris Ryan]

Hello and welcome to the Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am the concubine of New York Knicks fandom at the Ringer. And joining me on the other line, a Longtime fan of 50 Foot Women, it's Andy Greenwald.

[Andy Greenwald]

There's a lot to lot to unpack there. I mean, first of all, I appreciate you leading with your vulnerability.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, you know what? You have to learn to take the L with dignity. And we're going to talk a little bit about the Sixers and my travels back to Philadelphia for Game 3, which was humiliating and I basically sat in a cuck chair for two and a half hours while New Yorkers screamed at all of the players for the Philadelphia 76ers. We're also going to talk about Euphoria and a new series on Netflix Day. Andy and I are both really excited about called Legends. It's great to see you, man. It's. It's important to see a friendly face in these dire times. I have a couple of news items for you, but I just want to check in. You look great. Great flannel.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, thanks. Yeah, you know, the weather is quite hot here. You're missing that.

[Chris Ryan]

Is it really?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, it's getting warm. Getting up to close to 90 today.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's a. It's a. It's a brisk spring day here in. In Philadelphia.

[Andy Greenwald]

You're back in your element, I can tell you.

[Chris Ryan]

I sure am.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know, I'm not the person on this podcast who keeps his finger on the pulse of things. In fact, I keep my fingers far away from all pulses whenever possible, including lentils and other legumes. That said, I have been noting with interest with Brian Windhorst Fingers the possibility that CR Month is maybe expanding into CR year, metastasizing, if you will.

[Chris Ryan]

Why?

[Andy Greenwald]

And here are some of the things. There's just been some. There's been just some, like, cultural dominoes falling that are really lining up for you. And I feel like we should be tracking them here on the podcast.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

One of them is, you know, you and the rest of your cohort knocked out Janet Mills in Maine, which I think is great because you hate establishment Dems and you're ready for a new voice in Washington and body art. Also, you've also. You also have tattoos. 2. The Virginia Supreme Court knocked down the redistrict, which I know you also hate gerrymandering. People don't know this about you, but you always just want an even playing field. That's something about you. The third thing is, I don't know if you saw this yet, because it's not really like our wheelhouse or what we ought to be discussing generationally, but the new Charli XCX video came out last week.

[Chris Ryan]

I did see that.

[Andy Greenwald]

And for those who don't know, the video is called rock music. She declares the dance floor to be dead and that now it's all about headbanging in mosh pits. And in the video, not only does she attend a show with a ferocious pit, she also smokes so many cigarettes that she walks around a, I imagine, New York City apartment that has basically like, obelisks of cigarette butts raised to the ceiling. And I just feel like you are the vanguard of culture.

[Chris Ryan]

I feel like I brought Hot Girl Cigarette Summer to the forefront.

[Andy Greenwald]

I just feel like it's not a coincidence that two weeks ago you're talking about the basement show in El Sereno, and now Charlie XCX is like, on board with you. You are a tone setter.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I mean, so I saw. I saw that she is. She is pivoting to early aughts rock sound. Right? Is that the. Is that the, the word on this unclear.

[Andy Greenwald]

But it is a pivot. It is a pivot.

[Chris Ryan]

I can't, I can't nor would I want to claim credit for cigarettes coming back. I think we need to blame are leaders for creating an environment where people are turning to cigarettes, you know, because what's the point?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, okay. I think that's exactly, I think that's right. All right, well, I'm just saying I'm watching this stuff, okay. I'm just, I'm just monitoring it now.

[Chris Ryan]

I almost, I almost broke the seal on a pack of Camels this weekend on Friday night, specifically for obvious reasons because of the Sixers, but couldn't find, you know, I went to a gas station. She was like, we sell no nicotine products.

[Andy Greenwald]

So I think you misheard. I think she said we sold out. Have you seen what's going on with the sports teams?

[Chris Ryan]

Have you heard about this CR guy or that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, exactly.

[Chris Ryan]

Andy, I wanted to talk to you about two, two sort of TV news related things. One is just a brief, we can, we can hit it and skip it thing. With Apple's Cape Fear adaptation they released the full trailer which is kind of a funny thing because you and I and everybody we know, we're sitting around, we're like. There was a lot more to Cape Fear, you know, that we didn't get to in those multiple film adaptations of the John D. MacDonald novel.

[Andy Greenwald]

The biggest, the biggest problem was they started with Cape Fear. Why don't you start with Cape Dread Cape simmering anxiety. You know what I mean? Like you can really stretch this cape.

[Chris Ryan]

There's just something not right, you know,

[Andy Greenwald]

ultimately Cape existential terror. Why are we out of nicotine? But we'll get there.

[Chris Ryan]

But you know, so this, this a new multi part. I think it's, I think it's eight episodes. But maybe they haven't even announced the amount of episodes. But it seems like it's going to be time consuming. 10, 10 episodes from Nick Cantosa, who is a showrunner and a TV creator that I have a lot of time for. Javier Bardem is playing the famous Max Katie role which was played before by Robert Mitchum and Robert Dairo. So a meaty, meaty part there. And Bartm is one of our best actors. So I'm sure it's going to be worth watching that Amy Adams and Patrick Wilson play the blue couple at the center of Cape Fear. But what did you make of the trailer which you know, gets, it seems to center Amy Adams character more than maybe previous adaptations have Good use of center.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think that's appropriate. Well, a couple things. I would say that Nick Antosca, who's a really good television creator, his background going back to Channel Zero, is in horror stuff. And so I appreciated that. That seems to kind of be the tone here. Psychological horror, but certainly a monster movie with Javier Bardem playing the monster. That's a smart pivot. I think that probably makes. It probably makes for an entertaining series. I think that Javier Bardem seems engaged to play a monster again, perhaps for the first time unambiguously. Since no country for Old Men looks good, Morton title directed it. I have two concerns. And by the way, Kaya, if you'd like to speak your concern about the overrepresentation of New England on Apple tv, feel free to jump in. I don't want to put you on an island with it.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, do you think New England is the new Eastern Europe in terms of shooting locations? Well, we have Widow's Bay and now we have Cape Fear. That seems like a lot of ocean centric New England horror shows to me.

[Andy Greenwald]

Listen, you're not. Chris and I thought we slayed the beast in Game 7 last week. Like we didn't think we had to go back there for a while. And yet professional obligations demand it. My. My main issue here is one, if you thought 10 episodes was long, this trailer is too long. Like, I don't need two and a half minutes explaining to me that Max Cady's a scary guy who laughs inappropriately. That's going to be menacing this family. I get it. I think this is actually one of those things where a teaser trailer is enough. And also, I'm not going to run from the allegations. My number one issue here is unless they steer into it, the couple at the center of the chaos is, as you said, played by Amy Adams and Patrick Wilson, which to me is like enjoying a delicious mayonnaise sandwich on white bread.

[Chris Ryan]

You're a Patrick Wilson fan.

[Andy Greenwald]

I am a Patrick Wilson fan.

[Chris Ryan]

Are you?

[Andy Greenwald]

You know what? I'm a Patrick Wilson fan.

[Chris Ryan]

I enjoy his work in what's your name? Your top two Patrick Wilson works.

[Andy Greenwald]

Aquaman and Aquaman two.

[Chris Ryan]

You're not going to take it seriously? We can't rank things.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, come on. Wasn't he. And he's an Angels in America, wasn't he?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And he's in that episode of Guy from the Midwest. Right.

[Andy Greenwald]

And the episode of Girls.

[Chris Ryan]

Girls. So those are two smaller parts in long ago HBO series Little Children. Yeah, he has in Little Children. I'm a Conjuring guy. So me and Pat go way back.

[Andy Greenwald]

Fargo season two. I want to say, I just, it's. It's just a. It's a. I'm noting the pairing that I feel like either because I find them both. I find him interesting and bland, intentionally so. And I think he plays into that role well as, like, look, here is, like, here is the white guy that can be the. Either the fall guy or the stand in for life's ills or whatever. And then he has a little more something going on behind it. So you steer into it. I don't find Amy Adams as captivating as you do.

[Chris Ryan]

I think I wish I could tap Bill. Bill Simmons in right now.

[Andy Greenwald]

Is he a big fan?

[Chris Ryan]

He is the opposite of a fan. He is an Amy Adams hater or at least does not understand how she has so many Oscar nominations. That's one of his big pet peeves. Nominating Amy Adams for Oscars gives him the ick.

[Andy Greenwald]

This feels like after game seven against the Celtics. This feels like coming home. Yeah. This feels like I'm back working at the right place, you know, where I'm understood.

[Chris Ryan]

My takes on this I'll save. Obviously, I haven't watched the screeners yet. I'm curious to see what they do with it. It's coming in June 5th. The only question I have, and this is actually gonna feed into my next topic I wanted to bring up with you, is the degree to which there is a contemporary, perhaps younger generation relationship with the story, the characters of Cape Fear. So for us, right, it's kind of indelible, right? Like it's. It's like this was Martin Scorsese's big blockbuster effort. I believe there was some script trading with Spielberg going on where this might have even been Schindler's List or something like that. Like, I can't remember what it was, but there was.

[Andy Greenwald]

It wasn't. I don't think it was that. But you're onto something. This is absolutely.

[Chris Ryan]

There was something where, like Spielberg was thinking about doing this and then traded it to Scorsi for a different something else. I can't remember. I've. I've talked about this on rewatchables. I just don't remember the research.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's Schindler's List. It's Schindler's List, which is Schindler's List.

[Chris Ryan]

So what a. What a sliding door. And I think that I'd be curious to know whether or not there's like a 28 year old person who's just like this just looks cool. And I, I don't really have any preconceived notions, nor do I have the baggage that tells me how can there possibly be a 10 hour series about this when the whole purpose of the two adaptations of the book are the sort of vice like grip. It puts you in for two hours. But most people getting through Cape Fear would not want that grip to go on that much longer. I mean the whole point of a thriller is it takes place in this kind of condensed period of time.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think that what Nick has said, Nick Antoska, is that he found more inspiration from The John D. MacDonald book, the Executioners that inspired the original Cape Fear film and obviously the second Cape Fear film. And as someone who has read all 26 Travis McGee novels, I support going back to the original John D. MacDonald text. I think that's interesting. But your question, and this is something. I don't think we should spend more time on the hand wringing. But I do think it's worth noting that like this is. You said what young people may find in this. I think that Amy Adams, Patrick Wilson and Javier Bardem means that Apple is either comfortable or just rich enough not to worry about attracting much young interest in this.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know what I mean? Like this seems to be. I don't think, I think you could go broke trying to squint and discover a larger programing strategy from Apple. I think they just fall in love with stuff or fall in like with stuff and put it out. And that's the extent of it for the most part. But if you did want to shows

[Chris Ryan]

for four or five seasons or however long.

[Andy Greenwald]

But, but it, but in this case, I think you, you could make the argument. I'm not, and I'm not sure if they would. How strongly they would endorse it that things like Presumed Innocent have proven to them that there is a market for adult. You know what I mean by that? Like, like entertainment that like again, Presumed Innocent is not like a sexy Scott Turow is not necessarily burning up the YA shelves. But like there is a cohort of people who pay for their streaming services that fondly remember that book and movie. And this may be something that you could put into the same bag. The reason I said we shouldn't do any hand wringing over this. But I remain pretty fascinated by what their strategy is. I can't help it because there has been some stuff recently and again I don't.

[Chris Ryan]

What am I gonna do with my hands?

[Andy Greenwald]

You're not here to hold them. That, that there's been some data released and I never know how to trust online streaming data like who's reporting it or not because these services are generally quite opaque. But there was, there were some numbers going around about debut week streaming numbers for Apple series historically and it was interesting to look at that. Like shrinking started quite low, but I assume at this point it's one of their most reliable shows in terms of audience. Yeah, to go by this like debut week thing, Pluribus unsurprisingly had quite a big debut number. I think it was like 3.5 million views in the first week. And remember, not many people pay for Apple tv so it's, its numbers are smaller than like an HBO debut or what have you. And Widow's bay was at 2.5 million, which they said was fine. But in line with things that hadn't succeeded, Margo's got money troubles which was a huge promotional expenditure for them in investment was 2.3. So I, I don't know what they're seeing in terms of both attraction and retention.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, budget versus return on investment. And meanwhile they have like several blockbuster sci fi shows that they're deep into production on multiple seasons and do you

[Andy Greenwald]

think that they have separate buckets for this is a show that will attract more subscribers because it's a proven commodity or is this the show that we are feeding to our existing customers because we know they like it?

[Chris Ryan]

So yeah, I think that that's a really good question. I mean the reason why I, you know, the next thing I wanted to talk to you about was a show coming from NBC Peacock and you know, I'll give this to Apple. I don't always like their shows but they do have an identity and they do have a commitment to seeing stories run and seeing stories out and you know, they're on. I think there's, I saw a graphic of all the stuff that is currently in production for them and it was a full, full.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Network's worth of television shows that are, some are in season 4, 5, 6 have spin offs, you know, like have been rebooted. You know, 2 of the bill Lawrence shows are essentially going into their act two all like shorzy where it's like we're just going to give these guys a different thrust now. But it's still all the people you know and love. It's kind of a fascinating gambit that, you know, I think we were always a little skeptical about. Like so what are they going to just put phones in all these shows or like what happens when people stop Renewing after their. You get a year of Apple TV free with the purchase of a new iPhone. Stuff happens. But it just really seems like Tim Cook stepping down aside, they've just decided to fill a void where all these traditional networks used to be, which is here is multiple shows per month coming back on relatively regular schedules with all the biggest stars. It's kind of just like they're just doing tv. The thing I wanted to ask you about was this Friday the 13th show called Crystal Lake, which NBCUniversal did their upfronts, I believe, on Friday or recently at least, and announced some release dates for.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think it was this morning.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, was it this morning. Okay. So they announced a bunch of release dates for upcoming shows, including Amy Poehler's new show Dig, which I'm really excited about, and the renewals of a couple of things like the Fallen Rise of Reggie Dinkins. But most interestingly to me was the announcement that Crystal Lake, a long, gestating Friday the 13th prequel, will finally be airing October 15th. Now, Andy, I have zero expectation that you will either watch this or be interested in what I'm about to tell you, but I hope to make it at least somewhat relevant to our POD purposes by talking about this show. Yeah, is basically a lens through which to view television history in the 21st century. Because for almost 23 years they've been talking. And when I say they, I mean various people involved in the rights to Friday the 13th have been talking about doing a Friday the 13th TV show. Right now, infamously, there was a series like Friday the 13th. The series was. I can't remember who broadcast it, but it was only. It was. It wasn't related to the movies at all. It was basically a haunted antique shop X Files type show, which I only really know about because I know David Cronenberg directed one of the episodes. And so it's just a curio for me. But in 2003, they were starting to develop this. It got, you know, at various stages of. I think they shot a pilot for the CW and the CW turned it down. So like, for a while there it's going. You would hear about some sort of like the Friday the 13th rates the Friday the 13th development race, like happening 22. It kind of like really kind of heats up because it's announced that A24 is going to become a producer on the show and that Brian Fuller, who at the time was pretty hot shit coming off of Hannibal, was going to showrun it was going to be the TV creator. And he, he. He's pretty vocal in his communications about what he's working on. Was like, I have complete creative control.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Listener. He did not. Brian Fuller was not only canned from the gig in 24 around the writer strikes, but also ran into some of his own problems based on some behavioral stuff.

[Andy Greenwald]

Just to jump in, I do think it's accurate that during his time at the controls, he did have complete creative reign, but his reign on the short. His reign on the top was short. Like the proverbial for proverbial leprechauns. I could barely get that out, but I'm proud that I did.

[Chris Ryan]

Honestly, if you did it any better than that, it would probably be weirder.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, you're right. It was pretty weird. Regardless.

[Chris Ryan]

So 22, like, he comes and goes in 24, it's announced that he's leaving, but around 24 because of the amount of money that's being thrown around in streaming television at the time. It's rumored that Charlize Theron is going to take over the role and that this is always going to be about Pamela Voorhees, Jason's mother. And I don't know, I don't want to spoil anything for people, but she's a bad hombre in the first movie. And, you know, the idea of Charlie Theron coming off of, like, Fury Road and being in this series is pretty hilarious. I mean, I think they had, like, sets reserved or built and, like, it was ready to go.

[Andy Greenwald]

And Kevin Williamson was rumored to be

[Chris Ryan]

involved at this point, so he, I believe, had been working on the Brian Fuller iteration.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's the creator.

[Chris Ryan]

But Nick Antosco was then brought in for a minute and I. I don't believe is involved in the Crystal Lake now. It's being run by Brad Caleb Kane, who's got a litany of credits, but most notably worked on Warrior and something else recently that I thought was pretty decent. But he was an executive producer on something. But in any case, it's just a fascinating.

[Andy Greenwald]

He was on it. Welcome to Dairy.

[Chris Ryan]

Welcome to Dairy. That's right. He was in the Machete Verse and then. So, like, it's just a kind of a fascinating tale of a piece of property that honestly, like, even dudes like me probably don't have a lot of hope for. And I don't know, for people like Kai and Kaya, they're like, yes, Jason, the hockey mask. But if I remember correctly, one of the issues here is not unlike the Thomas Harris Silence of the Lambs rights.

[Andy Greenwald]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't even know if they're Allowed to have a hockey mask in this show because of the difference between the film rights and the TV rights. This show now stars Linda Cardellini. It's coming out two weeks before Halloween on Peacock. And I'm. I'm curious, but it is something where I'm like, as the movies start to come up with kind of, if not necessarily like, wholeheartedly original ideas, they are at least unwinding themselves a little bit from the comic book dependency and from some of the IP dependency. I say that knowing that devil verse Prada 2 is doing dominating gangbusters in the box office, but it practically feels fresh. The idea of hanging on to what if we did a prestige version of Friday the 13th for 20 some years? And arriving at a Peacock show coming in October, which I am still kind of interested in seeing, is kind of wild. And it also, it dovetails nicely with Cape Fear, which is. Friday the 13th is a slasher classic. It is about kids at camp getting chased by a guy with a hockey mask.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

The underlying reasons for all of that. Nobody cares.

[Andy Greenwald]

We did not spend playground time in the 80s wondering why Jason was broken and who hurt him.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think Jason's mom had a bad marriage? Like, what happened there?

[Andy Greenwald]

Let me tell you something. I was a child for every one of the Nightmare on Elm street movie releases, and never once was I like, what happened to Freddy? What's his trauma? You know, that was never a question or a concern. I will give this one.

[Chris Ryan]

The neighbors of Elm street had it in for him and that they.

[Andy Greenwald]

They burned him or something.

[Chris Ryan]

They did. That's why he looks the way he looks.

[Andy Greenwald]

So he has a legitimate bone to pick.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And he picks a lot of bones out of people still breathing ribcages when he puts his hand through them.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, so maybe. So really, it's a hero story. I. We're actually not that far away from that, considering, like, there are prominent people in this country who are, like, the Empire was right. You know?

[Chris Ryan]

I know.

[Andy Greenwald]

Like, it's not that far away. I do give credit to this. To this production.

[Chris Ryan]

Freddy was a sovereign citizen

[Andy Greenwald]

of the dreamscape world. That when they shot this last year in New Jersey. Did you see that? They shot it under the working title Mama's Boy. I. I respect that. That's pretty good. To your point. This could be good. And it would be delightful for everyone who cares about these things. And hopefully, I would imagine people who don't know they care going in that this is pretty good. It does. As someone who doesn't engage with any horror Content remind me a lot of Bates Motel, which was the psycho prequel series that focused on the multiple seasons. So it is not unexplored territory to do this and I guess it was relatively successful. That was your beloved Vera Farmigo was on that show, if I remember correctly.

[Chris Ryan]

My favorite therapist.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, from the Departed. Is one of your reasons why you've never fully committed to therapy is because you have an ideal in mind? Yeah, it's Vera Farmiga in the Departed.

[Chris Ryan]

Straight up. Why don't you give me a bottle of scotch and a revolver?

[Andy Greenwald]

I wonder if you. Do you think therapists are googleable by their feelings on the Departed? Like whether they think there are some like, ethical violations in there or not.

[Chris Ryan]

I. I mean, it's just she. She is honestly. Can I just be. Be real with you on number 23, the hottest woman I have ever seen in that movie.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think that's fair. I think that's fair. I think people need to understand if this is going to be CR. Year. Truly. Yeah. I think we need to be transparent with each other. And I think again, now we will see if fashion moves in your direction

[Chris Ryan]

and therapists start being incredibly inappropriate if

[Andy Greenwald]

therapy moves in that direction as well. I think you are right to frame this in terms of the last 10 to 20 years of just IP strip mining. This may end up in with a good show which is great for everyone. It is hard to make.

[Chris Ryan]

Are we going to poison the groundwater in the process?

[Andy Greenwald]

No, not even that so much as, like, it's very hard to make anything full stop and then it's very hard to make something good. So if they were able to do it, ultimately we don't need to do a postmortem on how they got there. But there is an element of this where you, you, you know, the, the tech overlords who have come in to streamline everything and, and uberfy everything in this industry as well are unquestionably the villains and just fundamentally anti art. But every so often you get a case where it's just like, we've been trying to develop a story no one particularly is asking for for 22 years. And we have spent untold tens of millions of dollars to get there. And now we've also. Now we've leveraged or a 24 has leveraged us or we've leveraged a 24 in their quest to expand their purview, like all to get here. Maybe, you know, at this point, maybe Doug from. From. It could have been like, guys, what if we don't do it? You Know what I mean? Like. Like that there is that element to that with these kinds of. That said, I don't. I truly don't know. Like, will these things continue to just pop up like zombies, like the few that actually survive their long gestation? Or have we really turned the corner from this and this is the last shining echo of light from a distant star? I don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike, or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for? That's when Prime's same day delivery has your back, getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so that you can actually join in on the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery. It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to find millions of items delivered fast available in select areas. Terms apply. Let's get into a full throated endorsement of a new TV show. So out of out of all the concern trolling we just did for two non existent shows or shows that haven't aired yet, I wanted to get our full shoulder behind Legends on Netflix. We got a few emails to the Watch email box. You can always hit us [e-mail] we always love your emails. We'll do a mailbag soon and I'll try to interpolate some when we discuss Legends in more depth. Perhaps next week. So six episodes, obviously. Netflix. It's already up. Andy and I both watched two. This one stars one of our favorite actors, Tom Burke, who people may remember from Steven Soderbergh's Black bag from last year. It stars Steve Coogan in a unusually straightforward role, although I am really enjoying the master Michael Caine impersonator slowly becoming Michael Caine.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's the best insight I could possibly give.

[Chris Ryan]

He's just doing a really good Michael Caine role where he's like on the cop who tells you what to do? Hayley Squires, who folks will probably seen on their screens before. What was like Haley Squires, his biggest thing.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is going to be insufferable, but I'm going to say it anyway. But I am British theater.

[Chris Ryan]

Are you going to say you saw her at Donmar Warehouse or something?

[Andy Greenwald]

No, I saw her at All My Sons with Bryan Cranston and Papa Esedu earlier this year and she was awesome. I know it's ridiculous and rarefied air, but you've experienced this too. That it is. I saw Tom Burke last year with Cate Blanchett on stage. Like, I saw Coogan do Dr. Strangelove. Like, it's really cool that all these really good actors work on challenging things and then they get a call to, like, play a copper for a couple of weeks and they're like, that's awesome. I know I'm projecting, but I feel that enthusiasm on the screen.

[Chris Ryan]

I think I saw the kid who plays young Jason Voorhees outside of the Xfinity Mobile arena on Friday night urinating on an Impede Jersey.

[Andy Greenwald]

So on TikTok, different cultures, you know, but. But people are working. That's what matters.

[Chris Ryan]

This show is set in 1990 in England, gloriously. And I say that as somebody who is currently staring at the soundtrack, which features Happy Mondays and Depeche Mode and Stone Roses and a bunch of, like, Manchester classics and British club and alternative rock hits from that era. Great soundtrack. And it comes to us via the showrunner, creator, writer Neil Forsyth, who people who listen to this podcast may remember as the writer creator of the Gold. The Gold was one of me and Andy's, like, out of nowhere faves from a couple of years ago. And then it did a second season, which I am criminally admit I have not watched. And nor do I even know where to watch it because I think it was on PBS briefly and maybe on like a PBS streaming service, but I haven't checked it out in any case. Anyone. We were chatting about this off the pod. I. I want to steal something you said and throw it back at you as a prompt. And this is, oh, I should say a crime drama about an influx of heroin hitting England in 1990, and the Customs House Department of the Home Office or the Customs, basically the Customs Department of the English government sending in a bunch of undercover agents to try and stem the tide of heroin flooding into the country in 1990. And Steve Coogan plays the sort of ex undercover agent slash police officer. We haven't really gotten so far into his backstory. Who leads these? Several of these cops, and they're all played by Squires and Tom Burke and Amal Amin, who's also quite good as a cop named Bailey or a customs agent named Bailey. When I was talking to you a little bit off pod, you said something really insightful, which is, is this guy now his own genre? Is Neil Forsythe now his own genre? What would you describe as Neil Forsythe as a genre?

[Andy Greenwald]

It's really so specific. So if you would watch the Gold, which we encourage you to do, you will feel instantly at home with this show, and also instantly relieved in a way that Netflix also understood his unique talents and. And gave him a platform. Because the gold would have crushed on Netflix for the same reasons that Legends is already climbing the global top 10. Neil Forsyth is uniquely talented at making incredibly complicated historical moments shine dramatically and emotionally with an almost like brutalist shorthand. What I mean by that is like the gold, which is about a very infamous, I think more infamous if you lived in the UK than if you were us, but infamous robbery and the after effects of that robbery. Legends is about customs officers infiltrating, as you said, like the heroin distribution Networks of the UK in 1990. Its heroes are people who usually check suitcases at the airport.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, and.

[Andy Greenwald]

And it is absolutely suffused with British specificity in terms of Margaret Thatcher's political interests, in terms of Turkish immigration, in terms of council estates and the politics, and being from a place like Liverpool versus not being from a place like Liverpool. And yet it feels galactic in terms of, like, oh, I understand everything about this. I understand the, the. The safe house where they're meeting and how people have, you know, plausible deniability and people are getting in over their heads and there's a shorthand. You said we don't know that much about Steve Coogan's Don character. We know exactly as much as we need to know. When these characters sit down in a room, they are all primed to say, not just the most expositionally efficient thing they could say, they say it with a flair and panache that is a hallmark of good writing. So when we covered the first season of Narcos, I think we both enjoyed it a lot. But we joked even then about the Boyd Holbrooke voiceover and how really the show was like an elevated Wikipedia of the series, where historical events were being dramatized for our eyes in a way that was gripping.

[Chris Ryan]

That's old Pablo right there.

[Andy Greenwald]

Pablo Escobar was his name and drugs were his game.

[Chris Ryan]

Joel Embiid came over from an appendectomy a little early for my tastes.

[Andy Greenwald]

See, now you're kind of.

[Chris Ryan]

It seemed to work for the New York Knicks.

[Andy Greenwald]

You're performing your trauma in a way that Freddy Krueger also did that I'm a little. We're going to get to that at the end. I just want to say that in lesser hands, this show would be basic AF or confusing. And when I watch it, I thrill to the dramatics of it and the specificity of it. But I also marvel at it's just. Just brutal efficiency, honestly, to get us to this place. If you watch this pilot, the characters go from unknowns to deep undercover within 55 minutes. And there's not a wasted second. And some of those and all the

[Chris Ryan]

things that take them from A to B or actually A to G, basically all the middle letters are so deeply pleasurable. Including a recruitment drive.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Calling of recruits. A montage of training different recruits being good at different elements of the job. Like, some are good at paperwork and some are good at picking locks. And all of the period details are so perfect, whether it's the car models or the references to European cup finals that they're making. And then the music is just like. It's not hitting you over the head like, oh, here's a needle drop just out of nowhere. It's like walking into, like, college parties or estate council parties or pubs and stump something on the radio. But it's. It's very scene setting. Without spending a billion dollars to recreate Trafalgar Square at 1990.

[Andy Greenwald]

Maybe when we do another mailbag, at some point we could come up with, like, a working list of the six things that you watch television for in heaven. And just as a way to sort of point to them that, like, you don't. Not every show has to do all of them, and you don't. And actually, shows get worse when they try to do too many of these things. So one thing that you've been talking about in regards to our coverage of Euphoria is that you're not bored and that you're often surprised and there's a visual dynamism. And we'll get into that when we talk about that show. That is not what you come to legends for, but you come to legends for. You learn something, you travel somewhere, and you also get that deeply pleasurable hit of watching a creator, filmmaker, showrunner, who loves things, Certain things, as much as you do in the audience and knows that sometimes, like a perfect pop song only uses the same three chords. So a recruitment scene, you know, a character having a surprising core competence. The small details of characters getting to know each other in a rough and tumble way and realizing they're gonna be friends for life. Like, there are these crime novel, crime, television show, crime film beats that he runs right at and does his version of within this World. And then on top of that, you have Tom Burke, who I can. Who is in, like, year 10 of being the next that guy, I think.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. All the way back to, like, Furiosa. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And he's the lead of, like, the. Of J.K. rowling's. Other adaptation that's been on was on Cinemax, the CB STR Strike series. He's a star of that. He. He's. He's done romantic dramas in the uk. He's. He's always hotly tipped to be hotly tipped. And he's a star. And at some points you squint and you're like, he's also well into his 40s, and I think he's supposed to be passing as someone with a young family, but also, who cares? This is tv, man. He's really good at it.

[Chris Ryan]

There is something kind of fun about the fact that this is. This kind of. It goes hand in hand with Widow's Bay to me, where it's just a complete clarity of intention and tone. There is a menace of violence, there's a threat of violence, but so far it's not like. I mean, it's a little bloody, I guess, but not after a couple of episodes. But they just hand. Everything is handled in, like, the exact way that I think that the showrunner wants it to be perceived, and that is. That is deeply pleasurable. We can hit it more in depth, like next week when I'm back.

[Andy Greenwald]

Or.

[Chris Ryan]

No, maybe when. Cause we're going to be apart from each other a couple of episodes, but I hope to finish this one off with you at some point.

[Andy Greenwald]

How jarring is it to see. Because we're about to see Steve Coogan in the White Lotus and Steve Coogan's career over the last 10 years, plus, like, Philomena and stuff like, he is. He has been in a period of, like, let me try things. Let me see where the floor is and where the ceiling is. He's still doing Alan Partridge, though, as

[Chris Ryan]

an actor, and he was doing the Trips, like, up until recently.

[Andy Greenwald]

But, like, is it jarring to see him in this role? Because I think you nailed it when you said he's doing Michael Caine, but really doing Michael Caine, and now I'm all the way in. I don't think he's bad at all, honestly. I didn't know about the show. I didn't know it was Neil Forsyth. I turned on Netflix on Friday after getting back from dinner and there's Steve Coogan in a TV show. And I said, sure, but did you bump at all? Not bump, but were you surprised?

[Chris Ryan]

He's got something, man. I mean, he's got screen presence where there's a sequence in the second episode where he has to answer two different phones, both calling with emergencies, and he's also calling his boss and it's just a lot of landline drama and, and

[Andy Greenwald]

some characters have cell phones though, but not the government.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, but like he's able to basically like command the screen and be the, the, the load bearing wall of this show. It's really, it's, it's a really great turn from him.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's also, I would imagine, a little bit subversive and fun because famously he has had his own struggles with illicit substances in the past. And here he is playing like an

[Chris Ryan]

absolute, we got to get this heroin out of this country.

[Andy Greenwald]

I mean, I think he probably agrees with that sentiment now, without question. Do you think that. And we'll talk about this again when we get circled back to it. But one thing that I really appreciate about Niall Forsyth also is that he's Scottish himself, he's from Dundee, and that Scotland exists in a vortex on the show. That's a little bit. Where's Sauron from? You know those references.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And it's also like when somebody has to take heroin to Scotland, they're like, oh no, that's what I'm saying.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's exactly it. Like if that's where he's from, but

[Chris Ryan]

he's just like Kurdish heroin dealer and you're worried about Scotland. This is amazing. Let's wrap up the pod today, or wrap up the TV part of the pod today with a trip through LA Knights Euphoria, episode five. Kitty kitten or no, this little piggy.

[Andy Greenwald]

Right, this little piggy.

[Chris Ryan]

You know you are watching this series. Yes, as a pilgrimage new to the lands of Euphoria. And watching each episode is the. This is only the fifth episode of Euphoria that you've ever watched.

[Andy Greenwald]

And by the way, I appreciate you using religious language to describe this because as you know, I recently finished Jonathan Franzen's excellent novel Crossroads, which is a lot about religion. And I'm learning a lot about religion and its ecstasies and also its privileging of abasement and how one must sometimes suffer. And in that suffering there is a freedom.

[Chris Ryan]

Are our characters on Euphoria not suffering?

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, that's how I connect to them because I too am suffering. But please continue your setup.

[Chris Ryan]

Your knowledge of Euphoria lore is limited.

[Andy Greenwald]

Extremely.

[Chris Ryan]

But your heart is open to the possible pleasures of the show. I was curious though, as this episode starts with a. Some would say hysterical, some would say thrilling, some would say cringe. 10 minute sequence of Sydney Sweeney's Cassie character becoming the 50 foot woman. The famous sort of sci fi B movie about a 50 foot woman who catches her boyfriend cheating on her. And we get gigantic replicas of Sydney Sweeney's breasts smashing into skyscraper windows. We get lots of lurid sexual behavior from her, all in a kind of crazed montage explaining her you her onlyfans fame that is taking off. Do you have a quote unquote relationship to the Sydney Sweeney stardom discourse and also like her rumored political leanings, et cetera, that you feel like the jokes hit necessarily in this sequence?

[Andy Greenwald]

I want to thank you for your attention to my interest and curiosity in the Sydney Sweeney project. I also want to gently deflect and reflect the question back to you. Yeah, let me look, let me be honest with our listeners. I've long wanted to jump in feet first into the Sydney Sweeney discourse. And I'm grateful to you and the good folks at the Ringer for giving me an opportunity.

[Chris Ryan]

This kind of fucking centrism, that's dead, dude. This is not going to win an election anymore.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's totally right.

[Chris Ryan]

Say it with your whole.

[Andy Greenwald]

These are the talking points that the DNC provided me on the subject of Cassie Howard and euphoria. Yeah, that, you know, America's a great country and there's room for all sorts of fan. Genuinely, genuinely. I was so perplexed by all of it because I absolutely couldn't tell what I was watching. If it is a satire of Sydney Sweeney's public Persona over the last few months and years, I get it. I was aware of the jeans commercial and all that. So I understand, like in the political stuff and it doesn't matter as long as people are talking. Like, I guess I appreciated it as a very robust, some might say buxom, engagement with the larger cultural talking points as television on a show that I was trying to find a way into. I found it off putting and bizarre.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

And I need to know genuinely, as a longtime fan of right leaning celebrities, what you thought of this and how it spoke to you.

[Chris Ryan]

Hold on, I have to close out of the window of Caitlin Clark walking out to Morgan Wallen at his concert in Indianapolis. No, I, I, I think you need, I mean, for the, for the purposes of like, accuracy, like, I like this show. I really don't give a what like Sydney Sweet.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, I know. So my genuine question is, you have said over the course of this conversation,

[Chris Ryan]

make the case for the 10 minutes

[Andy Greenwald]

because wait, I want to preface this by saying you have repeatedly said that you enjoy. I'm not trying to put you on the spot like a gotcha. I mean, you have said on this podcast that you have liked her performance and this character's arc on the show when it was a completely different show. So I actually need you to.

[Chris Ryan]

She's a wildly funny comic actress and I also think that I've seen her in. There's a specific performance that she gave in Reality, which was the movie made about reality winner's arrest that I thought was really good. That's. That's the bits aside, like, you know, I think she. She's capable of really good work. This ten minute sequence, if you want to make the case for it, is about how the feedback loop of the modern digital ecosystem and Internet ecosystem will explode. Someone will make people like turn into monsters or transmogrify or become like. It's all of that. I think the most central image of those first 10 minutes is definitely Sweeney is Cassie looking at the comments about her only fans videos and like that seeming to set off some sort of chain reaction inside of her brain. Yeah, it's also like kind of funny and grotesque and also really interesting that Sweeney I is. Is going along with this portrayal of her. I guess. Like I. I felt the best way to put it. But like she's. She's a willing partner, I assume in like how this is happening. And then when it comes to the line that I think is going to get clipped a lot, which is her appearing in 2024 euphoria timeline on I Guess Manosphere or like LA Digital Media Podcast. And when they ask like you sound like a Democrat and she says I'm not, that's going to get clipped to hell. And they knew that making the show. And this sequence is also about how there's no such thing as bad press. And here we are talking about a show that you've never watched before because it's interesting. Now I don't know whether you are regretting that decision, but it is kind of this fascinating thing of engagement with the engagement with the engagement.

[Andy Greenwald]

I agree. I just think there's no bottom that so far aside from a few moments all tied to Zendaya's performance this season is meta to the point of abstraction that I just find again and again the show's worldview just fundamentally, I think mistakes cynicism for insight, that there is something powerful being stated, observed, uncovered, revealed by pointing a camera at it and being like, isn't that evil? Isn't that awful? Aren't people really, really at their heart kind of thirsty, hungry, desperate bad? Okay, great, then why. But I don't find. I just. I found last night incredibly frustrating because without something grounding was the Tarantino karaoke just overwhelmed everything to me. Like characters, you know, like Alamo's pants being too small and then turning it into Samuel Jackson at the beginning of Pulp Fiction overreacting about the burgers. You know, it's like, that's, by the way, that's my, that's how I remember Pulp Fiction. The entire movie is about one, it's about one man overreacting.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he went in there with the intention of killing those guys that happened to have a burger. And he, he said, it's a tasty burger.

[Andy Greenwald]

It is a tasty burger. You're right. So let me rephrase that. He finds happiness in the burger. But otherwise, like, I guess I made it five episodes before ending up in this kind of frustrated place where I feel like I also am buried up to the head and someone's about to club me and club me in the forehead about it. Like, I, I, I think I just desperately lack. And I, I walked into this, I get this, I walked into this willingly. But I, I'm starting to wonder more and more, would I feel differently or would I feel worse if I had an emotional attachment to anyone on the screen? I need you to talk about.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't feel anything at all. I think that I still have hope that there's something ruin Nate characters. And I, I, Nate has been completely abandoned as somebody with any kind of connective tissue to the past iterations of the character. But there you, you kind of jokingly mentioned the suffering leading to salvation thing earlier. It's, it's kind of obvious that's what's happening. Like, they're literally cutting pieces of Jacob Lord off. They are burying Zendaya in the desert. And this will now be the second near death experience she has. She is not in the trailer for next week, but I am assuming that she was not decapitated in the desert by Alamo and that now we're gonna have five episodes of four more episodes of Euphoria.

[Andy Greenwald]

Honestly, I'd respect it. I'd respect it.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that the project here is about whether or not you can have a soul and live in the greater Los Angeles area. Like, I think that's the idea behind the show. I don't know whether or not these characters are the right vessel to get at that. There are certain combinations of characters that I really like. Honestly thought the Alamo and Maddie conversation of Bob's Big Boy was pretty electric.

[Andy Greenwald]

I, I, I really agree with you because, well, there's two things happening here that I want to three things that I want to give credit to. Sam Levinson fucking loves movies. You can tell. And the stylistic decision making. Not just like, now we're do attack of the 50 foot woman, but we're also going to really pay attention to dressing Maude Apatow's character like she's in a Howard Hawks screwball comedy who's wandered into the wrong movie. Like, all the way down to. Well, what does Tarantino do really well? He does people talking at diners really well. So let's do a diner scene. Maybe either. Maybe worthy of the imitation and the flattery. The other thing is, I don't have it in front of me. I'll call it up in a moment. But the cinematography and the lighting is beautiful. But what's our man? I haven't been saying his name. Our guy aaa, who's playing Alamo, is giving a really, really good performance on this show.

[Chris Ryan]

It's also a pretty significant part of the show. So it's interesting that they have, in a lot of ways, Laurie and Alamo have taken up so much real estate in the series compared to, say, Lex, Jules, or.

[Andy Greenwald]

By the way, I don't want to be glib. I was calling him aaa, but it's Adal Akanoe Ag. And yeah, he's. He's great on this.

[Chris Ryan]

The only other thing I would say is just that, like, his instincts for depicting addict psychology, I think, are pretty. Pretty shorthanded. And Rue repeatedly finding herself in a situation where she can't be fully honest with anybody in her life is

[Pharmaceutical Advertiser]

a

[Chris Ryan]

hallmark, I think, of somebody who's dealing with addiction, is struggling with addiction, even struggling with being sober is. Is like, how honest can you be with any one person at any given time? She can't be honest with Jules about what they're doing. She can't be honest with Alamo about what she's doing. She's not honest with Lori about what she's doing. She's not honest with Maddie, really, about what's going on when. When Alamo walks into Bob's big boy and you know, what they're putting that character through. I think we're only going to really be able to understand it. Same thing with Nate at the end of the series or at the end of the season. But I do find it. This wasn't my favorite episode. I also watched it after, like, an evening out watching the San Antonio Spurs. So it was like a long basketball game. And then I came back and I was like, cave. Sydney Sweeney's giant chest is destroying Downtown Los Angeles.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's kind of like what Wembanyama did last night as well, isn't it? I know that was. She got whistled for a flagrant.

[Chris Ryan]

Flagrant too literally could have been the

[Andy Greenwald]

name of the episode.

[Chris Ryan]

Trying to see if I have any other notes here. I do have a pet theory that we're gonna find out that this season of Euphoria is in fact a storyline on LA Knights. It's interesting that LA Knights seems to be the vortex that's drawing all these characters in. Jules is painted for it. Lexi works on it now Cassie is on it. And it would be kind of fun if it just turned into like a. This is a very special episode of LA Knights.

[Andy Greenwald]

I like, I know this runs counter to things I said at the beginning of the season, but I actually, I'm finding LA Knights to be kind of grounding partly because I think Sharon Stone and Colleen Camp are funny and I like their presence on the show and, you know, but that said, look, I think the most interesting thing about last night's episode to me was that I don't know of many other shows that have run right at a fundamental truth of our culture and of our. Certainly of the entertainment industry, which is that old world stuff, the stuff that we cover, the stuff that motivates us, that inspires us, is dying is Jurassic. And what the way most people engage with things is not this. It's vertical video. It's straight to consumer. It's onlyfans in nature or a Patreon, which is just like what Substack is just intellectual nerd only fans. Right? Like it's. That's. That's what the industry is. And so the moment when Matty like upsells Alamo on the potential of his business is interesting. The moment. And you counter that with Cassie being so blinkered to think, or at least so old world in her mentality that she's willing to give up what is clearly a multimillion dollar opportunity to audition for a role of. What was it like? Job applicant. To audition for someone auditioning on a television show that completely rewires her brain. And she's like, now I will be famous. But what she really means is now I will be legitimate or now my mother will know where to watch me on tv. That's a fascinating place for any kind of conversation these days. Maybe not a fascinating place for our podcast, but like, it's interesting to see it play out on the screen in a way and uniting all of these world that only fans kind of legitimizes things that have been marginalized. That's all really interesting.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

It just doesn't.

[Chris Ryan]

That has been a weird theme of this, this season where it's like the Maddie's boss makes her get rid of Caitlyn as a client earlier in the

[Andy Greenwald]

season and then is like.

[Chris Ryan]

And now like, is like kind of interested. But at the same time, Cassie desperately wants to be on like traditional forms of media because that somehow ratifies or validates her celebrity. And then there's like, you know, Nate asking Cassie to get into a faux relationship with the guy with the Tick tock house. I don't know. I don't really know what they're doing. Nate. I don't know what he's been doing with the thirty thousand dollar cash injections that Cassie's been giving him. Maybe he's like on Kalshi, but I'm not sure.

[Andy Greenwald]

I mean I, I thought that entire scene was despicable. Like I just.

[Chris Ryan]

Him getting his finger cut off.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, I just.

[Chris Ryan]

You don't think he dances to vinyl, that character?

[Andy Greenwald]

What was he dancing to? Mel Torme? Yeah, sure, sure, man. Like everything. Let's just, let's just find it in the moment. You know what I mean? Let's just like. Feels good. Let's.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's fix it on set.

[Andy Greenwald]

Let's do it. There are a lot of ideas on the screen. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's what I'm. And, and, and I'm trying. I'm white knuckling it, man. In pursuit of my faith and in my belief in you. There were a couple weeks when I didn't like it in quotes, but I like you. I was like, I'm not bored and I appreciate the aesthetics or I appreciate.

[Chris Ryan]

Were you bored last night?

[Andy Greenwald]

The effort. I found last night mostly excruciating to watch. Yeah. Because it's also. It's like, like it's 50, 58 minutes, 60 minutes.

[Chris Ryan]

It was an hour and one minute.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay. It's. That's too many minutes, man. It's just, it's too many minutes. No one needs to hear me talk about this. I want to hear you talk about it more because you have. As a fan of serialized television, I think you have some relationship with characters, journeys. And so when I'm watching this last night's episode and I'm like, Rue suddenly seems just a lot more credulous, passive and passive and kind of clueless about stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't find passivity to be like that to me is like someone being in control of their own destiny is kind of, like, likability. I'm like, I don't know. These are, like, weird rules that we make for TV characters that I don't really give a shit about. Like, some people get pushed around in their life and wind up like, yeah, no, I'm not.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying is the Rue that you watched over multiple seasons the same person who is driven to the desert by Marshawn lynch and told to dig a hole until it comes up to her chin and it's like, oh, I guess this is my job now.

[Chris Ryan]

I suppose she's, like, aware on a deeper level how she is, like, she's basically at the center of, like, a pain triangle among drug dealers in the dea. So, like, there's really not a lot of outs for her. And I think that's an experience probably where it's, like, it's all fun and games until it's really not. When you. When it comes to, like, buying drugs and being a drug addict and stuff, I don't necessarily. I mean, it's obviously like, a fantastical and, like, deeply, like, spaghetti Western fate to be digging your own grave. But I like spaghetti Westerns. I just found that, like, the Rue and the Nate culminations of those two arcs, this episode hit different because we had literally seen them go through those experiences before. So I wasn't like, oh, no. Nate now loses his finger. I wonder if he'll really change this time. It's like, obviously Nate is going through some reverse Frankenstein's monster thing, and Rue is going through some quasi religious passion of the Christ thing to kind of find the truth of what the Bible is supposed to be telling her because she has this block when it comes to a higher power.

[Andy Greenwald]

There is just something. Maybe it is something like a born again thing that I just am observing. And I don't say this with judgment. I think that Sam Levinson believes that it's all kind of bullshit. And he's seen it and he's been through it. And one of the things I think he feels there's an element of, like, a provocateur in a grand artistic sense that I think he seems to subscribe to, which is just like, you think you're above it on your living room couch, but you fucking look at these websites, too. And you know that I'm casting porn stars. Because you're looking at porn stars, and now you're watching them, too. And now you're complicit in this, too. And my actors are complicit in it. And you think use of the second

[Chris Ryan]

person is quite pointed here.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, you think Sydney Sweeney can't act? Well, now she's. I'm gonna. I'm gonna have her do a long monologue from Shakespeare and have people watching her do it, and then have people watching people watching her do it. Because that's what all of this is about, man. We're all just watching, and we're all finding our way through it. Or even similarly, for me, as a noob, the totally confounding character of Jules and that performance and their role on the show, which is like, I'm going to objectify the person you guys are already objectifying, but within the show, she is objectified as well. And how does that make you feel? It's a lot. And, you know, and it is not a usual relationship between artist and audience that we find on television. And I think it's important to note that, like, that is a little bit more cinematic, I think. Or it's like. I don't know if you've been following. I assume you've been following. You've been busy with the Sixers, but the Venice Biennale opened last week, so I'm not sure how across it you've been. But this. This Austrian artist, Florentina Holzinger, are you aware of what she's been doing in the Austrian Pavilion?

[Chris Ryan]

You're the fucking best.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, it's been on. People have seen this because it's been on Instagram and stuff. But her thing is that she is the art. And so at the Austrian Pavilion, she has a water tank set up and she is jet skiing in circles, nude. And that's what she's doing. But she also opened the pavilion by. They hung a giant bell, and then she hung herself nude as the thing, the hammer inside the bell that rings. And I feel like Marina Abramovich did

[Chris Ryan]

this shit like, a couple years ago, though, right?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, well, Quentin Tarantino did this shit years ago, too. I'm just saying, like, I am not saying this to mock. I have plenty of other opportunities on this podcast to mock or sneer or, you know, wring my hair with moral piety. But I am saying that there is an element of provocation inherent in this season that I respect and that I'm trying to identify as its own thread in the larger cultural quilt that is not very common because. And honestly, I think this is sometimes. I haven't asked him about what he thinks about this season, but I do think that that's partly what our buddy Sam Esmail always responded to on the show or on the Idol or something because I think he fundamentally disdains accommodation. Like he does not want the audience to be comfortable. He gets mad not just if you're folding laundry, but if TV shows do the things that I was just praising Neil Forsythe for doing. You know, like, oh, here's something that we've seen shows do before and isn't it fun to see them do it. But in Scotland, like anti that. So Bravo question mark. But also I wanted to just go take a long walk around my neighborhood and think about the choices I've made after that Nate scene. But maybe that's the point.

[Chris Ryan]

This episode is brought to you by Brooks Running connects us to a rush of energy that flows through our world. The cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us, the intersection of interests that inspires a run crew, the support that gets you over the finish line. Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there. Learn [e-mail] the playoffs are here and

[Andy Greenwald]

you can predict the action all the way to the finals with FanDuel predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes and misses. Predict the spread, the total points and even the game winner. Sign up for FanDuel Predicts and predict it from the couch offered by FanDuel Prediction Markets LLC, a registered Futures Commission merchant. Eighteen plus trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools.

[Chris Ryan]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike, or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for? That's when Prime Same Day Delivery has your back, getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably. So you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same Day delivery. It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to find millions of items delivered fast available in select areas. Terms apply. Let's talk about choices briefly. Watch After Dark Remote so I don't know if we can really get the lighting change that we're accustomed to.

[Andy Greenwald]

Do you have shades on those windows?

[Chris Ryan]

Should I turn off my mother's kitchen light here? So I came across the country for family reasons, but also because I was like, this is the rare opportunity to go see the Philadelphia 76ers play a home basketball game. Home playoff game, which I had not seen since 2012. We have not gotten past the second

[Andy Greenwald]

round, which is where 25 years, I believe.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. The tw. The 2012 team, which was the last team before the process, is sort of, you know, famously derided for, like, being second round and out guys. But here we are in 2026, and, you know, perhaps. Perhaps I was flying too high off that Boston. That Boston pack, but I flew out here myself. And Nick from Bad Brother went to the game on Friday. We had a fantastic Philadelphia evening where we. We started. We got a Guinness, and then we went to Old Original. Nick's Roast Beef Original. I had a roast pork sandwich with I. With some horseradish on it and a yingling. And I was like, God damn, dude. Best city in the world. And we pull up on Xfinity Mobile Arena. I was curious, what's your favorite iteration of that arena? What was the. What was your. What bank sponsorship did you prefer?

[Andy Greenwald]

It's the Wachovia center for me.

[Chris Ryan]

We were talking core states. We were like, did core states have, like, a real core states?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, that was better. Because the thing about. First of all, I love banks. I love them.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And I love when they change hands.

[Andy Greenwald]

They provide so many basic services, and some of them even have cafes now.

[Chris Ryan]

So.

[Andy Greenwald]

Thank you, banks. But I do appreciate, like, Citizens bank park at least has the word citizens in it. So you can squint and be like, that's for all of us. Core states has a similar. Like, oh, it's essential.

[Chris Ryan]

Pennsylvania is a core.

[Andy Greenwald]

It was one of the original 13.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Once we got into these. Yeah. Xfinity Mobile. Come on.

[Chris Ryan]

So we were walking up to this, to Xfinity Mobile off the subway, and it was kind of like, took the subway, by the way. Very nice experience.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's a great experience to get to the sports complex.

[Chris Ryan]

And we were talking about, like, what do you think the ratio of Knicks fans to Sixers fans is going to be? And I probably comes before the fall. And I was like, I think like, 70, 30 Philly. Right. Like, first, second round game in a minute, like, and they.

[Andy Greenwald]

They made a. They made a concerted effort, at least I. So I thought to limit sales to, like, a certain zip code or whatever.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't even know if they actually did that. But the problem was, you don't take

[Andy Greenwald]

Josh Harris at his word. Okay, let's. We'll get back to that.

[Chris Ryan]

When we were on the train.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I noticed a lot of people wearing Phillies regalia.

[Andy Greenwald]

Good.

[Chris Ryan]

And I was like, oh, they can't possibly be playing at the same time they. Were you sure the Phillies were playing The Colorado Rockies. The mildly hot Phillies were playing the Colorado Rockies.

[Andy Greenwald]

And I was like, cr, See our year? Things are trending in your direction in baseball too.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh. Cause I like Don.

[Andy Greenwald]

You like Don Mattingly, but also you're like, talk to me after game 60.

[Chris Ryan]

That's what I said. I said that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Maybe I'm saying you said that.

[Chris Ryan]

So, anyway, we're walking up, and it becomes apparent that we're closer to, like, 50. 50.

[Andy Greenwald]

All right.

[Chris Ryan]

As the amount of Knicks jerseys we're seeing. And I did see several Knicks fans doing an interview with a citizen journalist who had a Kalshee microphone. I don't know what futures predictions they were making, but it did not involve my future. And. Or if it did, it was like, this guy's gonna be really miserable. We get in there and you're like, okay. Like, this is it, man. I'm just a grown man at an NBA playoff game. Like, what could be better than this? And we sit down, and they got the white T shirts out, and we're like, fuck, yeah. Like, Josh Harris spares no expense.

[Andy Greenwald]

The white T shirts of surrender. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

We sit down, and we're next to, like, five lovely people from New Jersey and Knicks jerseys. And then to our left are more fans wearing Knicks regalia. And then in front of us, a lovely couple comes in, and they are obviously Knicks fans and increasingly in our section. And I think it was the same. It was more like 80, 20 Knicks to Sixers fans. And what happened then was a brief moment in the first quarter where Tyrese Maxey threw back to back alley oops to DJ Edgecomb, and I almost leapt over three rows to high five the only other Sixers fan in our section. Then we got boat raced, and that's when it really got dark, because the people around us were relatively pleasant, except for the guy up in the upper deck who shouted, let's go, Nicks. During the moment of silence for Sixers coach Nick Nurse's brother, who recently passed away. That guy's a scumbag. And if Buddy Ryan was still alive, he never would have gotten out of Philadelphia. And sometimes I wonder whether we need to go back to the old us. Yes. You know what I mean? Like this. I don't like the reputation that Philadelphians are, like, alcoholic hooligans, but when you let something like that happen, it's pretty embarrassing. The most. The most terrible thing that happened was the Knicks then go on, like, you know, just this epic run that basically went on for seven quarters. You know, they destroyed us, then kicked the out of us yesterday in game four. But during we get to halftime, and me and. Me and Nick are like, I kind of want to leave. Like, this is not actually fun. But then in my mind, I was like, you know what? Not everything in life is supposed to be fun. Like, we kind of have consumer fight. Everything. It's like, fudge me. Fudge me for coming here.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know, you're like, yeah, you're like Nate on Euphoria. You're just seeing something through.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, cut it off.

[Andy Greenwald]

I didn't need it anyway.

[Chris Ryan]

Just cut it off. And I think the. The bottom hitting bottom is being in a men's room, but getting to that inner men's room line where you're still waiting for the urinal, but now you're in a bathroom full of Knicks fans on IG Live filming other men urinate, going Nixon for fuck embiid. I may be on. So I. I might be on some guy's Instagram having a halftime piss and thinking about what led me to this place in my life. 48 years old, honestly, like just being humiliated in.

[Andy Greenwald]

On.

[Chris Ryan]

In public on the Internet, for sure. I have no idea what happened to that footage.

[Andy Greenwald]

I hearted it. I did see it. Out of respect. I did not repost it. But you come off well.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, Kai should clip that. Clip me in the bathroom. But just running underneath this crmonth takes a new turn.

[Andy Greenwald]

I. So I. I have. I have a couple things to respond to here. I did. I wanted to say in my own defense that last week when I was watching the Sixers be buddy buddy with. With the Celtics at the end of the series, I was saying that maybe, maybe we need to Bugs Bunny meme sports again and like, Lord forgive us.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't want guys to be pissed at each other. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And you, you were like, no, no, come on, we're all in the league together. This is a fraught one because genuinely, I'm on the record as saying this, and I'm okay with it. I think that the Knicks should be good because for 20 years they were dog shit. And that's dumb because Madison Square Garden is the coolest place to see basketball and it's a storied franchise and it's more fun when they were good the last week excepted. Also, we both have many Knicks fans in our life.

[Chris Ryan]

I should say, like, congratulations to them.

[Andy Greenwald]

That sounds very genuine.

[Chris Ryan]

But also, first, let me talk about

[Andy Greenwald]

pissing and now let me talk about congratulations.

[Chris Ryan]

One of the other.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Indignities that we suffered was that was the first time I've knowingly been in the same building as Timothy Chalamet. No, that's a lie. I went to a. A complete unknown screening that he. No, he wasn't at that. So, like, that was the first time I've ever been in the building with Timmy Chalamet, and it was him dicking all over the. The Xfinity Mobile Arena. But you have courtside. You have sold him that ticket.

[Andy Greenwald]

We need to name names.

[Chris Ryan]

I want.

[Andy Greenwald]

Just.

[Chris Ryan]

Just let me know who sold them that ticket.

[Andy Greenwald]

Name. Time to name names.

[Chris Ryan]

Was it Night Shyamalan?

[Andy Greenwald]

You were just saying that the new James Elroy book actually suggests that the people who name names during the communist which try witch hunts of the 50s were the heroes. So maybe we need to bring back that aesthetic.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Spike was there. Ben Stiller was there. It was.

[Andy Greenwald]

Tracy Morgan was there for the. Not the fifth or sixth time, you were in the same room with Fat Joe. So that's always you guys. You'll settle that offline. But, you know, we understand that that's been simmering since the Rucker. It's hard because we have friends from there. We chose to live in New York City, not Philadelphia, for the best years of our life. So I get it. But I am. My sports fandom is forever chilled by the fact that one of the most fun things about our shared, like, teens and twenties was that when we would come home from college or just come home from living in New York, we would always go to a Sixers game at Thanksgiving. And I remember that we went to a game. It was maybe in my mind, it's the first Iverson game we ever went to. And it was the beginning, or maybe it was even before Iverson. It was. Jerry Stackhouse was going to be the answer. And I just remember going to the arena and we were playing the Knicks and the team was garbage. And they were doing fancam, and, you know, it's like, will it be you? Fan of the game. Fan of the game. And it settles on this lovely woman. And they came to her and they were like, you, ma', am, you're the Sixers fan of the game. What do you have to say? And they handed her the microphone and she said, I just want to say, go Knicks. And, like, I hear her voice sometimes when I'm trying to, like, talk myself to sleep by thinking about, like, Sixers two way players who might make it. So this really burned. This was. It's egregious. And I don't understand why it happens because the Mets, who. I mean, of bad NLE teams. I mean, I think we all think there's a clear winner and a clear loser, and it's not, you know, it's reversed. The like, is it a numbers thing? Is it a ticket scarcity thing?

[Chris Ryan]

Apparently there's a couple of different things. For one thing, just anecdotally from Uber drivers in Philadelphia, they are like, this team is not that good. And if you can make a thousand dollars selling your tickets, I don't, I don't blame anybody. I don't know. That's anecdotal based on like two Uber drivers. I think one of the major problems is that MSG is so expensive. Yeah, games are so expensive. And the Knicks fandom is something of a diaspora where there's like a lot of New Jersey Knicks fans. There's a lot of people who can't maybe get into to MSG for any games. Philly is like a very easy commute to get down and I guess relatively cheaper.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know, great restaurants, you know, nightlife.

[Chris Ryan]

It was tough, man. It was just like, if I had known, would I still have done it? Yes, I would have.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know, it's good, it's good to go out and meet your voters. You know what I mean? Like, really understand the electorate. I, I genuinely think this is a franchise problem. I think that if it was a well run franchise by someone who, I don't know, I'm just spitballing here, didn't also own, was not on the Epstein, the Washington football team and is also in the Epstein files, like maybe the curse would be lifted and maybe things would work out a little better. And also that maybe people would genuinely believe because it was really cool to beat the Celtics. I genuinely love with my whole heart Tyrese Maxey and Vijay Edgecombe and I will always love Joel Embiid and I'm happy for him both that he beat the Celtics and as he said last night, though, I haven't ever accomplished anything. I can be a good man and a good father and I'm like, you know, I might print out that quote hanging on my wall. There's real wisdom in the post game interviews.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

But beyond that, like, why would anyone believe, like, especially with all of this just like fucking ticky tack, like load management contract juggling. Like, but if we're all healthy at the same moment, somehow we might, things might break. Right.

[Chris Ryan]

So we could get swept by Oklahoma Celtics. We beat Boston.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. So I'll always have that. I was not kidding when I said raise the banner like that. Like there should be a banner that says that to encapsulate this era, there should be two banners from this era. One is beating the Celtics in the first round of the 2026 NBA playoffs. And the other one was Zaire Smith. Surviving the peanut allergy.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right. Was it sesame seeds?

[Andy Greenwald]

He went into anaphylactic shock. And they should just raise the EpiPen to the rafters. And every time Mikael Bridges dunks on us, he should point to that. That's what I feel.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, that was my week, and I drank a lot, so.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, you look great. You wear well. Now we can focus on. Are you gonna focus on baseball now, or are we just focusing on the June 1st AJ Brown trade?

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know. I don't know what I'm gonna do now. I thought maybe I would start reading more. Sounds dark.

[Andy Greenwald]

Might I recommend Crossroads? Quite good.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, you're just a bookfluencer, man. I know that.

[Andy Greenwald]

You're just upset because Phoebe and I have been texting about it. Like, then you're cut out of it. That's all.

[Chris Ryan]

It's all right.

[Andy Greenwald]

I get it.

[Chris Ryan]

I like you guys having an independent

[Andy Greenwald]

relationship for me because I send her the videos when they come up on the Internet. I'm like, your husband's pissing online again. And she's like, oh, I thought he didn't go on Twitter anymore. I'm like, no, no, literally. And then we try to clean it up. We have Spotify's best black saga, Kaya

[Chris Ryan]

and Kai for indulging in that. That episode of the Watch After Dark. I am not going to be on Thursday's show.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, yeah. I gotta get. I gotta figure out a show.

[Chris Ryan]

And then you are not on next week's shows.

[Andy Greenwald]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

Because we are doing some traveling ships passing. But I hope when we reconvene, you're all caught up to date on Euphoria, that you continue to watch Euphoria diligently and that you don't turn into a guy who's like, now I have to watch three episodes of Euphoria the night before I'm checking in with Chris.

[Andy Greenwald]

Don't do that, dude. Glimpse behind the curtain. Like, nobody cares what we have access to or, like, how we watch things. But it's been a. It's a tough sled that, like, they have denied screener access to you.

[Chris Ryan]

46.3. It's just. It's just Sam's still tinkering. Sure.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, I don't want to interrupt his process. It's just that, like, I do wonder And I'm try, I try to be better than this. But I wonder if I would enjoy it more if I could control my experience rather than being like, ah, now to end my restful weekend with the sound of Jacob Elordi screaming, is a man who uses a fucking garden shears to take off a finger. Do you know what I mean? Like, is there a little anger in my voice when I say that? Maybe.

[Chris Ryan]

Thanks to everybody for helping produce the show today. We will be back with you guys on Thursday, just minus me. Greenwald solo show. Who can say? I can't wait to find out.

[Andy Greenwald]

Next week I'm going to do a Pablo Torre style investigation of Josh Harris's myriad web of business interests. Do you think that would do numbers?

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

Especially if I didn't research it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. And then you got sued. We have to get some indemnification for the company first, but then feel free.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay, I'll see what I can do.

[Chris Ryan]

The views expressed in this podcast exclusively. Andy Greenwalds, thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you guys soon.