Is ‘Stranger Things’ the Last Gasp of Blockbuster TV? Plus, Why Netflix’s ‘Death by Lightning’ Is Worth Your Time.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Watch – “Is ‘Stranger Things’ the Last Gasp of Blockbuster TV? Plus, Why Netflix’s ‘Death by Lightning’ Is Worth Your Time.”
Date: November 11, 2025 | Hosts: Chris Ryan & Andy Greenwald

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Episode Overview

This episode, recorded in London, finds Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald digging into two major subjects: whether ‘Stranger Things’ represents the end of the era of blockbuster, event TV, and why Netflix’s new historical limited series ‘Death by Lightning’ is a must-watch. Along the way, they riff on the evolving mechanics of TV production, streaming economics, and the peculiar cultural vibes of current standout series, peppered with trademark banter and deep-dive TV analysis.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. State of the Studio & Podcasting from London

• Humorous confusion at Spotify UK’s labyrinthine offices.
  • Andy: “...my badge didn’t work on one door. And I was like, well, here I am in this other hallway… Getting into smaller and smaller confined spaces…” (02:27–02:56)
• Reflecting on the unpredictable publishing schedule while abroad and the intricacies of international podcasting life.

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2. The Blockbuster TV Era and ‘Stranger Things’

Is ‘Stranger Things’ the Last of Its Kind? (08:05–14:52)

• Chris reviews the impact of the latest ‘Stranger Things’ trailer and how much the show’s vibe has shifted—from fun 80s Amblin nostalgia to “full James Cameron, Terminator” energy.
  • Chris: “The trailer looks way more James Cameron than Amblin...way more T2 Terminator vibes than anything like Explorers or Goonies...” (08:51–09:08)
• Discussion of the extraordinary run—10 years—of ‘Stranger Things’ with relatively few seasons but seismic pop culture impact.
• Andy ponders its originality and journey from underdog genre piece to authentic blockbuster:
  • Andy: “It is, despite its obvious influences, original IP and it grew into blockbuster status and in a way earned this sendoff…” (11:21–11:30)
• They muse on:
  • How stars grew up alongside the audience (Millie Bobby Brown, Finn Wolfhard, Maya Hawke).
  • Whether a slow-grow, original IP success story can still happen in today’s streaming landscape.
    • Andy: “The precedent now for launching this stuff is a little bit inverted. It does feel like it has to start big and then stay big, which is really, really, really challenging.” (13:25–13:40)
  • Netflix’s role as both innovator and, perhaps, the last platform able to produce such a zeitgeist-defining, long-arc show.

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3. Streaming TV Mechanics & Modern Originals

The Changing TV Pipeline (14:00–18:52)

• Chris contextualizes ‘Stranger Things’ as Netflix’s first breakout original—preceded by acquisitions like ‘House of Cards’.
• Comparison to shows like ‘Yellowstone’: Blockbuster TV often fizzles, especially if star talent moves on or creative focus is lost—see: Kevin Costner’s messy exit.
• Modern TV increasingly front-loads budgets and spectacle rather than letting series grow organically.
  • Andy: “The only way you can do that in today’s economy…is to do it with one of the two or three biggest IPs in the world.” (16:41–17:04)
• Discussion of ‘Pluribus’ as a contrast—star-driven but by a creator, not an actor—showing how streamers hedge bets by loading casts with “reliable or known” faces, but that creative integrity sometimes still wins.

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4. Death by Lightning: Review & Recommendations

Why It’s Worth Your Time (18:56–35:36)

Premise and Creative Team

• A Netflix miniseries based on the assassination of President James A. Garfield.
• Stars: Michael Shannon (Garfield), Matthew Macfadyen (Charles Guiteau, the assassin), Betty Gilpin, Shea Whigham, Bradley Whitford, and more.
• Creator: Mike Makowsky (wrote entire series); directed by Matt Ross.
• Based on the book “Destiny of the Republic” by Candice Millard.

First Impressions & Style

• Chris and Andy both went into the show knowing little about the era, making its engrossing, fast-paced retelling all the more striking.
• Andy delights in the “conclave” scenes: “I fucking love conclaves…a bunch of people in a room talking about who should win, and then you lock them in and it gets a little hot…a hero rises.” (22:44–23:14)
• The show deftly navigates exposition-heavy historical storytelling while staying nimble and engaging.
  • Chris: “I just found this to be very fleet of foot… even though it was doing a lot of exposition…it moved. It had a great tempo…” (24:47–25:13)

Tone and Structure

• Opening with a 1960s soul music drop, Andy feared another too-glib Steven Knight-style historical drama but was quickly reassured:
  • Andy: “We were not going to be somber… not glib. Really, really appreciated that.” (27:39–27:50)

Cast & Performances

• Both hosts praise the cast’s calibrations, especially Macfadyen’s “small-time hustler” energy and Shannon’s reserved stoic Garfield.
  • Chris: “If Michael Shannon had been doing the same thing—like Twitchy—it would have been too much. But Shannon is doing stock still, man of Lincoln.” (33:02–33:35)
• Supporting turns (e.g., Shea Whigham’s ring-removing hand wash as “Roscoe Conkling”) provide standout, character-driven moments.
• “Elite facial hair acting by everyone involved; can’t possibly do better.” – Andy (34:05–34:28)

Production & Atmosphere

• Some digital/CGI crowd replication and “Budapest doubling” – minor quibbles in an otherwise immersive production.
  • Chris: “I could tell it was Budapest… but the diorama nature... is effective.” (37:44–38:15)
• Compared to recent historical series like ‘Manhunt’, ‘Death by Lightning’ keeps a consistent aesthetic and doesn’t feel over-produced or too digitally augmented.

Overall Recommendation

• Both highly recommend the show for its energetic, smart, and character-rich approach to a lesser-known slice of American history.
  • Chris: “This is, to me, honestly, a pretty easy recommend. Very easy.” (33:35–34:05)
  • Andy: “Everyone is perfectly cast…firmly in their bag…but there is a directorial and producerial hand… It’s really artfully done.” (34:28–34:50)

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5. Industry Contracts & Streamer Deals

• Brief sidebar on Netflix’s deal with Benioff & Weiss (‘Three Body Problem’) and the rarity of landing another hit after a Game of Thrones–style breakthrough.

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6. TV Grab Bag: The Morning Show, I Love L.A., and Chair Company

Observations on Current TV (39:22–52:32)

The Morning Show

• Amused deep-dive into the show’s heavy CGI, its visual tricks, and the logistical gymnastics required to film scenes with major actors who are rarely physically together.
  • Chris: “One of the major draws… is analyzing scenes where major characters… are just clearly not in the same set together.” (40:43–41:44)
• Plotlines involving AI gone awry, podcasters parodying the manosphere, and eccentric scenes that border on surreal.

I Love LA

• The second episode receives a positive review—consistently funny, good character work, though Andy feels less invested in ongoing “influencer beef” plot lines.

Chair Company

• Andy describes a recent episode’s chaotic coke bar scene, with absurd physical comedy and unpredictable farce, noting its uniqueness and the sense it could only exist in the current TV landscape.
  • “It ends with something that I can’t describe and frankly, I’ve never seen on television before…” (52:04–52:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On ‘Stranger Things’ arc:
  Chris: “It’s been 10 years, I think…The trailer looks way more James Cameron than Amblin.” (08:23–09:08)

• On the economics of blockbuster TV:
  Andy: “It does feel like it has to start big and then stay big, which is really, really, really challenging.” (13:38–13:40)

• ‘Death by Lightning’ conclaves:
  Andy: “I fucking love conclaves… You get me a scene of a bunch of people in a room talking about who should win, and then you lock them in…a hero rises to meet the moment.” (22:44–23:14)

• On ‘Death by Lightning’ cast:
  Andy: “Elite facial hair acting by everyone involved; can’t possibly do better.” (34:05–34:28)

• On The Morning Show’s production quirks:
  Chris: “One of the major draws to me for watching this series continually is analyzing scenes where major characters…are just clearly not in the same set together.” (40:43–41:44)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Stranger Things & Blockbuster TV Discussion: 08:05–14:52
• New Model of TV Production: 14:00–18:52
• Death by Lightning Review: 18:56–35:36
• Benioff & Weiss/Three Body Problem/Streaming Deals: 35:36–37:00
• Production Quibbles and CGI in Historical TV: 37:44–39:22
• The Morning Show, I Love LA, Chair Company TV Roundup: 39:22–52:32

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Tone & Style

Maintains the signature blend of deep cultural analysis and dry, self-effacing humor, with Chris and Andy’s long-running rapport lending both rigor and levity. The episode is dense with media industry insights, affectionate takedowns, and layered TV nerd banter.

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Summary for Non-Listeners

If you missed this one, Chris and Andy offer a sharp, fun, and deeply informed look at how ‘Stranger Things’ may be the last truly “blockbuster” TV phenomenon—a product of conditions (creative, economic, and technological) unlikely to recur. In turn, they champion Netflix’s ‘Death by Lightning’ as a near-perfect modern miniseries: briskly paced, superbly acted, and strikingly fresh in approach to history. Along the way, they tackle the granular realities of contemporary TV—how it’s made, who gets cast, and why even the oddest creative gambles (see: Chair Company) are vital in the current landscape.

If you want to know what’s really going on with streaming, why some shows grab the zeitgeist and others fade, and what historical TV can actually do for a viewer in 2025, this episode is essential listening.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Stand up and walk now.

[A]

Hello and welcome to the Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] and join in the studio from London, dead by lightning, it's Andy Green wall.

[B]

I haven't seen a lot of lightning here. A lot of rain.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Clouds. Yes.

[A]

A lot of storming. We've had a lot of like really just right into the BBC shipping forecast here for our listeners. What's up, man? It's Chris and Andy. This will be our last show from London for now because we're going to be back in L. A next week. Back to regular scheduled programming. Thanks to everybody for bearing with us as we erratically publish episodes of this podcast while overseas.

[B]

I'd like to say that we could have done more, but unfortunately both of us have gotten just outrageously lost here in the warrens of Spotify UK which is the most confusing building. That's true I have ever seen.

[A]

All these missing posters up for podcasters who have gotten lost looking for bathrooms.

[B]

Correct me if I'm wrong. To get out of the studio we're in now. I could turn left or take a series of ramps and end up in the same.

[A]

Funny you should mention that. Just really quickly. You can email [e-mail] you can follow us at thewatch podcast. Watch pod.

[B]

The watch pod.

[A]

The watchpod underscore Instagram. You can watch us on the Ringer Dash TV YouTube channel and on Spotify, where you're hopefully listening to us. And last night I was recording an episode of the big picture about Predator badlands from here. Yes. Which is a film I saw at BFI South Bank, Imax, which was fantastic.

[B]

And you weren't alone. This is a huge hit.

[A]

No, it was a big, big hit. Big, big hit. A lot of people Had a lot of time for El Fanning playing two. Two parts.

[B]

Pause when you say two parts. You mean she plays two roles or she is ripped into two parts?

[A]

Both. And anyway, so I was recording the pod, and as I was leaving last night, I was just like, goodbye, and walked into one room. And then all of a sudden, like, my. My badge didn't work on one door. And I was like, well, here I am in this other hallway. I'm sure at the other end of it, I should be able to get out, swipe. And like, I increasingly was able to swipe through one door, and then when that door would close, no longer be able to use it. And getting into smaller and smaller confined spaces until I found myself in, like an office lobby somewhere.

[B]

I want to be clear that in upon. Check in just now, as opposed to in la, where they are very, very strict about entry and monitoring things. And having a little sticker with my bad picture on it that says Kaya's name, just in case I need to be returned to my master. The guys here, my dark master, were like, go ahead. And we were both like, does he need. Do I need a sticker of some kind? And they looked at me the same way the dudes at the edge of the labyrinth looked at Theseus. And they were Team Minotaur. They were like, it's fine.

[A]

Good pull.

[B]

It'll work itself out. You know what I mean? Like, they're like, either you'll come out or you won't. But we're not that worried about proprietary ip.

[A]

Andy, had a couple of things for you today. We're going to talk a little bit about Death by Lightning, which is a new series on Netflix.

[B]

Excited to talk about that.

[A]

Starring Michael Shannon and Matthew McFadden. McFadden, how do you could throw in a little.

[B]

Why? I think to try to, like, just.

[A]

At the end, throw the slider. Yeah, but I mask it. That's what I.

[B]

You know, first of all, you just look like me trying to show off throwing a Frisbee in 1995. And literally, this is the slider. No, but also, you could, like, you ever. You ever throw a Frisbee, buddy?

[A]

I did. Yeah, man.

[B]

You ever throw Frisbee enough to throw a Frisbee with a dude with the. The green piece backpack who's, like, whipping it forehand.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then you're like, yeah, I can do that. And then you, like, decapitate a dog.

[A]

Those guys got. Those guys nailed it.

[B]

They picked their moment. They went big. Okay. Yeah. Throw in the McFadden I don't want to derail.

[A]

No.

[B]

But at the top of show, can I just say one thing? I don't know which is my favorite.

[A]

Is it about death by lightning?

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, sure.

[B]

We're gonna talk about other TV shows.

[A]

We're gonna talk about I love la. I wanna ask you about stranger things. I wanna ask you about service. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

[B]

I can't wait. We're so cozy in the studio. But first, I just wanna check in. I did just mention Kaya, and Kaya's gonna be going through this back in la.

[A]

Oh, because she threw a hospital ball on your Courage Bagels clip.

[B]

And our guy Kai, who's been doing video clips. And I just wanna look in the camera and say, what would you like from London? What can I bring you? Perhaps a scented candle from Liberty? Something from Selfridges? Because in the comfort and safety of this room, I am my most genuine self.

[A]

You know exactly what you're doing when you're doing.

[B]

I do not.

[A]

Give me a break. I do not know that. When you are teeing off on beloved, popular small businesses within the Los Angeles Eastside community.

[B]

Small businesses. I feel very comfortable.

[A]

I'm sorry Einstein's Bagels didn't get that spot, you know.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But Courage Bagels is doing what they can.

[B]

Wow. From the Chamber of Secrets to the Chamber of Commerce, I am across it all. I just want to say that, like, historically, I'm, I'm just not built for these times because you and I, for.

[A]

Context, Andy made some disparaging remarks. No, Andy controversials low, low in his power rankings of LA bagel spots.

[B]

This is so niche. But yes, my point is, the bigger picture is I feel exposed. It's tough to, it's tough to say things.

[A]

Is that why you're sitting so low in the seat over there?

[B]

Aren't you sitting so low in the seat?

[A]

I feel like I'm taller than you in this one.

[B]

This is a very low bucket seat. And also I am clearly feeling nervous and needing the womb, like, support of this, whatever this is. I, I, I just feel like this is a, usually a safe space for me to, to deliver my most sincere takes. And now those takes are getting melon balled out.

[A]

You're naive about this at crazy. You absolutely are the take. Lord, you never only. You are never like Courage Bagels is fine. You're like, I, that's how I live my life. You love something or you hate something. And Kaya being, and Kai being good producers, they focus on your hate. They, they, they focus on the dark side of the force.

[B]

No, no, Post the love. Let's get a. What happened? What's wrong with a 12,000 eyeball clip? You know what I mean? What's wrong with a nice clip? Being like, I love LA is pretty good. We also put that one out last week. I saw that there was a clip where you were like, it's nice having a show like this.

[A]

And I'm like, no one didn't do numbers.

[B]

Like, it's pretty nice.

[A]

Well, if you were watching us, would you stop on that clip? Two schmucks being like, I like this show. It was pretty good, pretty funny. I don't get all the references, but it's okay.

[B]

20 somethings do drugs. Yeah, that's fine.

[A]

All right.

[B]

I just need to get offline and just live. Just immune to the consequences of my actions.

[A]

Yeah, that can be a big project for you when you return to America. Getting offline.

[B]

Well, I hear the government's working again, so I'm good. I can just visit some national parks.

[A]

I was in the. The hotel lobby this morning and a guy was explaining he was American, but his mother was Norwegian. And I felt like a lot of the Norway had gotten into him where he was very direct and right, you know, sort of straightforward about the government shutdown in the States. And he was explaining it to the concierge or the front desk person at the hotel. And he was just really like, well, we'll see, we'll see when they actually get back to work. I don't know.

[B]

So he's results oriented.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Well, Congress has been killing it when.

[A]

It comes to air traffic control. I am results oriented as well, especially.

[B]

Since we are both about to experience the kind of thing that's fair.

[A]

Greenwell, I wanted to ask you a little bit about Stranger Things. I think I've done some temp checks with you recently. These are sort of pointless because I know you haven't really watched much past season two, Right?

[B]

Yeah, I feel. I apologize. I know it is the biggest thing.

[A]

I think you have to apologize because one thing that we don't. I don't think we actually talked about the trailer, which came out a couple of weeks ago. It's quite long.

[B]

I didn't even watch it.

[A]

And it is a really interesting indication of how much this show has changed over its just astonishingly long run, even if not that many seasons compared to the amount of time it's been on the air. It's been 10 years, I think. Yes, exactly. Because the first season was a sensation as the Ringer really started to publish. And that was one of the first things that we kind of seized on.

[B]

As I remember that. Yeah.

[A]

As like a kind of pop cultural artifact from that era. So the trailer comes out and the trailer looks way more James Cameron than Amblin. Richard Donner. Goonies, fun 80s kind of kids hanging out.

[B]

Now we're adult 80s.

[A]

Yes. And it has way more T2 Terminator vibes than anything like the Explorers or Goonies or Stand By Me or whatever. And that's cool. Like, I think most shows go through some sort of transformation. I was just mentioning to Sean just how remarkable the Breaking Bad arc is when you actually go back and watch some early episodes.

[B]

Oh. In terms of how the tent. The tone change.

[A]

Tone. And just, you know, when you imagine if I had shown you the first episode of Breaking Bad and then I showed you the final season trailer with Ozymandias poem reading.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You would be like, that's not the same show.

[B]

And that's a beautiful testament to what TV can be.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

A journey.

[A]

I almost felt like, though, watching the spectacle around this last season of Stranger Things, which is going to be theatrically released in some cases, I believe the finale is going into theaters, is being released over the course of Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's in big. In big chunks. Very curious to see how that's received, especially if these are two plus hour.

[B]

Action movies, which they seem to be according to the. The advanced word.

[A]

And also whether this is like kind of maybe going to be the last of its kind with TV shows. It's hard to imagine another show lasting as long as this one. Having this arc, seeing people become stars over the course of its run. To the extent, I mean, Millie, Bobby Brown, I suppose, would be the biggest example. But Finn Wolfhard's done really well for.

[B]

Himself and Maya Hawks careers.

[A]

Despite Lily Allen's best efforts, still walking around.

[B]

You want to weigh in on that record?

[A]

I haven't listened to it specifically, but I do think it's pretty amazing. Just like the excerpts I've read from some of her observations.

[B]

Quite direct.

[A]

Yes. Not a lot of nuance, unlike a.

[B]

Lot of English people I've met. Just comes right down the center. She does.

[A]

Do you think we'll ever see another situation like this though? Or is this kind of a last TV show? Well, and maybe even the last gasp of. Of blockbuster TV at all.

[B]

It's interesting. It's an interesting question. I think that there's a couple ways to approach it. And one is, I have to confess, I do feel I do apologize to you and our listeners that I did not make good on my. I'm sure I promised at some point to catch up. The truth is, I did think that as my older daughter sort of aged into it, she might get into it and then I would have a way in. She got close and then did a hard left at the Wednesday fork in the road. So I've been watching that. Well, that's not. I've not done Stranger Things, so that's Data Point. That's in my defense, I guess, if anyone will accept it. I think one of the most remarkable things about the Stranger Things, well, there are two. One is that it is, despite its obvious influences, it is original IP and it grew into blockbuster status and in a way earned this sendoff that there was enough demand, there was enough interest to both have these giant sized episodes. But this giant marketing push, I mean, it's taken over even here in London. It's everywhere. And the runtimes, et cetera, et cetera. The other thing is, I'm sure Netflix, if you asked Netflix for a do over, they would not have wanted the show to take 10 years. But it is a really interesting snapshot of audiences growing up with something. To your point, would the show have been able to make these tonal shifts if the children hadn't become adults pushing 30 while making it?

[A]

Yeah, Finn Wolfhard's gonna play Paul Westerberg.

[B]

I'm interested. But also just that the audience itself has grown into maybe a mature audience who can handle the bigger themes that they seem to be playing with. I think that's all pretty interesting. It is. It was never a cheap show, but it definitely fit an older paradigm of big genre pieces in that it started small and expanded and grew into something massive. And you can say that's because the film, the Duffer Brothers expanding ambitions or ego or actor salaries or talent or whatever. But that's the arc it took, which is not that dissimilar from Game of Thrones, which, as we love to point out, was mostly people in rooms until the dragons got big. Yes, the. The precedent now for launching this stuff is a little bit inverted. It does feel like it has to start big and then stay big, which is really, really, really challenging. Challenging from a production standpoint, challenging from a network spend standpoint, and challenging from an audience standpoint. I think as we're learning with the long delays in House of the Dragon and stuff like that. So it is weird to talk about something as unique and as uniquely fraught as Stranger Things. Production has been and say a classic example of TV doing what it does best. But if you squint, maybe.

[A]

Yeah, or I think that this will go down as a, a time capsule piece from a very specific era of tv. Obviously this was the first big breakout hit that Netflix had that was owned and operated by Netflix. Before that they had been a buyer of shows and then aired them. This is the first significant like hit of their own. I believe they, they purchased House of Cards from someone else too.

[B]

Oh, House of Cards was mrc. Yeah, they, they were out. They announced themselves in the marketplace by outbidding for things and then partnering and.

[A]

Giving like full two season orders.

[B]

You know, that's how they, that's how Netflix, at least in terms of the anecdotes, that's how Netflix took House of Cards from HBO Rice, guaranteeing two seasons.

[A]

But then, you know, I was thinking about the other shows out there that have maybe been big hits since, I don't know, not even that Mad Men comparatively was as big of a hit as something like Stranger Things, but in that post prestige era where you get into like the peak TV and then maybe even like post peak tv, if you want to call it that. Like you more often than not see something like Yellowstone, which even though it became a phenomenon and we'll have spinoffs and you know, made some careers, ended more with a fizzle than with a bang because of Costner, I don't think that they were able to go out the way they wanted to. And because possibly because Taylor Sheridan is working on 15 other things, lost sight of maybe what yellow and I don't know that Yellowstone was ever supposed to be a 70 hour television show.

[B]

That's the other risk you run in the more or less. And again, these Yellowstone and Stranger Things, it's a stretch to call them traditional, but the traditional way of deal making and starting something from a baby idea and letting it grow means you can't always control the outcome. Best case scenario, the creators stick around, get to call their shot, land the plane, whether, you know, people like it or whether people agree with the ending or not, like tell the full story that they want it to tell. It is just as likely that you could lose audience, you could lose the plot, metaphorically speaking, you could just. Your star could decide to make a two part, spend his own money making a two part western that. Did the second part ever come out?

[A]

No, but it is being released on digital me. On physical media.

[B]

On physical media, yeah. Nice. So will the council convene? Will you, Tracey, Tim and Chop?

[A]

I think Possibly a small subsection of the working group might convene.

[B]

Working group. Right. Anyway, you can't control it. So it's. I guess the traditionalist in me is happy that they were able to end on their own terms. I mean, again, like, the reason that I'm here working in London is working on something obviously that is a very huge, huge production and the scale of it and the requirements of maintaining that scale are humbling. Like, genuinely, I am in awe and a little bit terrified of it. And it has to begin at a level that is unprecedented.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And has to maintain that level, which you know. And the only way you can do that in today's economy, or maybe and honestly in any responsible economy, is to do it with one of the two or three biggest IPs in the world. Otherwise, how could you get there?

[A]

Where would you put Pluribus in that version of tv where you have to start big versus the version of tv.

[B]

Well, I think that Pluribus is both exhilarating and relatively unique because it is a star driven enterprise. But the star is the creator, the writer and creator. And that is very rare and incredibly dependable. You know, that was why Apple, I think, felt confident giving it a two season order. Like, generally, like if you get in a situation where it's a bidding war, and I do think Pluribus coming from Sony, which is Vince Gilligan's longtime studio home, it was a bidding war by all accounts. Like, it went out to market. Generally, a two season guarantee comes from a place that has nothing to lose and everything to gain, like Netflix getting House of Cards. They didn't know if the show was even going to be good, but they needed it for their portfolio and they would just see what happens. If it's a Vince Gilligan show, you can probably feel pretty confident that it's going to deserve a second season. Creatively, yes, that's pretty unique. Also, as we were just talking even before we got on the air, among the other unique things about Pluribus, and we're not spoiling it, so no one needs to hit the skip button. If you haven't watched it, I think you should watch it, but you should also not know anything about it, if possible. Outside of Rhae Seehorn, there are no stars, at least no stars yet in the episodes we've seen. That's pretty unique. Like the nature of the business is really. It's not necessarily the same all the time as it was 10 years ago where it was like, get me every actor who's never been in a TV show and let me pay them $2 million an episode. Although I think we. I think talking about the morning show is on your docket, so it might become relevant again. But it definitely is like it definitely. The economy of the business definitely is. From a streamer or broad or network standpoint. Let me fill every margin of this canvas with something reliable or known just to hedge my bets.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's not the case with Pluribus, and it's better for it.

[A]

Okay, so let's talk a little bit about Death by Lightning, the new series on Netflix. This one was released last week, I believe, stars Michael Shannon, Matthew McFadden, and then just like an absolute list of hitters. Betty Gilpin, Shea Wiggum, Bradley Whitford. Really great to see him in this. I know that. I believe he's also in. Is he in Diplomat as well?

[B]

The Diplomat.

[A]

So, yeah.

[B]

Great. A lot of rave reviews for Diplomat.

[A]

I know. You know what, honestly, Diplomat is the one that I'm like. But I have to start at the beginning. And so I just kind of. I should maybe I should just like bang out some Diplomat.

[B]

You got an 11 hour flight.

[A]

I know. I was going to say. And then Nick Offerman. This comes from a creator named Mike Mikowski, who people may have seen his HBO film with Hugh Jackman called Bad Education. He's written out a couple of features as well, but he is creating us and I believe writing a lot of it under the ep.

[B]

I think he wrote the whole thing.

[A]

Shingle.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Good, because I loved the first episode. So if he's writing the whole thing, like I think it's.

[B]

And Matt Ross, who people might remember as an actor on Silicon Valley, who is also a director, he directed a great movie with Viggo Mortensen a few years ago. It's a name I'm absolutely blanking on, but I can call up. And he directed Gaslit, I believe it was called the Sam Esmail Show. He directed all of it. So it is a four episode written and directed by all the same, same folks. Captain Fantastic was Matt Ross's movie.

[A]

And this is based on the book Destiny of the Republic by Candice Millard, which I believe Littman, Juliette Lippman would say is one of her favorite recent books.

[B]

Is it? Yes.

[A]

She was very excited for this series. And I went in knowing about as much about this period or this specific president, which is James A. Garfield. His fate, which is decided by Charles Guto, who is play. Or guito, played by McFadden and kind of like also about Chester A. Arthur and Ulysses S. Grant. Like I knew. I basically am like, right there in the Civil War. I got it pretty.

[B]

You're good.

[A]

I'm pretty good. And then I go west. My interests go West.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

1870S, 1880s. I'm much more interested in your lonesome doves or what have you than I am in what was going on in Washington D.C. and I just never got taught this era. So I almost went into Death by Lightning about as blind as I went into Pluribus.

[B]

I feel the same way.

[A]

I was just like, here's what happened when I turned on this first episode. Written by McKowski, directed by Ross, obviously. And it's set in the 1880s in. Largely in Chicago for this first episode, but around. In and around the Midwest in that era.

[B]

And then to D.C. yes.

[A]

And it's set during the Republican National Convention, which is supposed to be a layup renomination for Grant for his third term.

[B]

Yeah, good for him. I hope that never happens again.

[A]

And, you know, there's just supposed to be a couple of sacrificial lambs who stand up and try to make some points, but they know that Grant's going to get his nomination. And he is being essentially managed by Shea Wiggums, New York senator, who seems like a real character, Rosco Conkling. And he is kind of old party politics style. Like, you know, everybody gets a job, but. But then they deliver their votes. Michael Shannon, playing James A. Garfield, stands up, gives a very stirring speech about how they're the party of Lincoln. They should be the party of the working man of the. Every fireplace in America matters. And the people lying in bed at night need to know that the people in. In Washington care about them and have the same principles.

[B]

He talks about affordability. He talks about his favorite halal carts in Queens.

[A]

Buses are free.

[B]

You know, pretty inspiring stuff.

[A]

First we got to invent the bus, then we're not going to charge for it.

[B]

The horseless bus.

[A]

Wouldn't you know it throughout an amazing series of events. And I gotta admit, one thing I do really love.

[B]

Say it.

[A]

19Th century conventions.

[B]

No, dude, go bigger. I fucking love conclaves.

[A]

Yeah, I actually love a conclave.

[B]

I didn't understand this about myself because frankly, we have not been given enough conclaves. And I will include the film Conclave, which I was mixed on, but the part of it I liked most, the titular conclave. So you get me a scene of a bunch of people in a room talking about who should win, and then you lock them in and it gets A little hot. Gets a little tight in there. Nerves are frayed. Backroom deals are happening, and one hero rises to meet the moment, and it's always that.

[A]

Why did he get one vote, Guy?

[B]

Yes. And you know what else? He doesn't want it. He doesn't want it. But heavy is the head.

[A]

Yes, Heavy.

[B]

Destiny's calling.

[A]

I think that every vote should count, for sure.

[B]

Great. But here we go. This is how it starts.

[A]

Pretty fun to watch them decide. You know, it's pretty fun to watch, like, a group of 12 dudes decide. Another good example of this was the film Lincoln where they have to get the votes for the amendment. And. But there's a lot of backstabbing and lying. And, like, Strathairon's just absolutely, you know, and David Costa, Bill are like, you lied to us.

[B]

Can you imagine? Like. And that's how we ended up with Democratic nominee Dick Durbin, because a bunch of guys went in a room and were like, everybody likes Dick.

[A]

Nobody likes Dick. All right, so this show you started, you start watching it, and here's what I felt.

[B]

Yeah, I want to talk about the opening specifically. Is that where you're going?

[A]

As we got into arrivals in Chicago and deals being made, I felt myself have multiple generations of sons and become a grandfather who just sits around reading history books.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Well, first of all, we're closer to that than you may realize. Sons aside. Like, I don't think I was prepping a joke about how, like, one day I'll become a guy that just has a thousand page doorstopper book about Congress next to me. Then I'm like, the numbers are the numbers. You know what I mean? Like, I got about five more years of cool spy books before that just becomes my identity. We're getting there.

[A]

I just found this to be very fleet of foot.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And not despite the fact that it was obviously doing a lot of exposition. And. And, you know, everybody is like, do you mean President Grant, the Civil War hero? One piece at Appomattox? Like, that's how they are introducing people.

[B]

Not mad at it.

[A]

Dude, it moved. It had a great tempo and a great pace.

[B]

Let's talk about that. Let's talk about ways to make. Let's just rap about history. Kids, what's up? I got some tick tocks to show you about. About reconstruction. I joke. But also, the show opens in a relatively surprising way that started to feel worrisome, which is. It starts with 1960s soul music playing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I was like, oh, okay. Immediately, my brain leapt to this is a post Steven Knight historical drama. And we talked about Steven Knight dramas. Yes, we talked about Steven Knight recently. He is one of the most prolific TV creators of our time. He is often brilliant and we often, very often like his shows. Yes, I.

[A]

Rogue Heroes and Peaky Blinders, two of my favorite shows of recent memory.

[B]

I struggled with and did not really engage with House of Guinness for the reason I'm about to repeat, which is it's Fontaine's DC version of history, which everything is a anachronistic needle drop set punch up with glossy images.

[A]

Yeah. And every like aristocrat is also a bare knuckle boxer who loves. Who loves to do snuff. Yeah.

[B]

I completely respect it. I have enjoyed it in doses and I see why that fits Netflix's strategy to make the history go down like cheeseburgers. But I didn't know if I wanted an American version of that necessarily. And what was very clever about the beginning is that it isn't that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The music is actually period appropriate because the show begins in the 60s with some people moving a house, a building of records and presidential stuff.

[A]

That's our. Our boy Rahman Djawadi from Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon. Doing the score.

[B]

Doing the score. Which I. I didn't know about that. Let's circle back to that. They find a brain in a jar, as one does.

[A]

I mean, and this is the 1960s scene.

[B]

Yeah. But it's a hallmark of. I mean, there's a lot of different genres that begin with people going in some sort of government archives and there's a brain in the jar. You know, I feel like they could get a little. Wait, are you.

[A]

Are you pulling my leg?

[B]

No, I just feel like that would be the beginning of like an invasion movie or something.

[A]

There's not like a lot of shows that start that way.

[B]

Funny story, Chris. What? In my time.

[A]

Original.

[B]

The first episode. No. Did you know that the first episode of the Seinfeld Chronicles did not have Julia Louis Dreyfus, but it did have a brain in the jar.

[A]

I did not know that.

[B]

Well, now, you know, and then it transitioned. They go like, who the fuck is this? And then we go back into the past.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what that communicated in a really fun way was that we were not going to be somber. We were not going to be like, overly reverential about tone or history. We were going to be lively, but we are also not going to be glib, which I really, really appreciated. And then it just went into, as you said, something that just moves it didn't feel the need to narratively explain itself, which I think was one of the reasons why I didn't stick with. This is a theme for me, I guess.

[A]

Not sticking with this.

[B]

Yeah. Was Manhunt the.

[A]

Yes. I was going to bring Manhunt up. Another thing. And who knows? I think the fact that this is a short series is very attractive, but I think with Manhunt, it was. I admired it and did not feel the need to finish it. It.

[B]

It. And again, I. I would like to know more about the genesis of the show and maybe we could talk to people involved in it. Because Mike Mikowski, if you look at. He's a very young writer and creator. He's 34 years old. I would not have guessed his CV, you know, as the person who would make the show. So I don't know if he's passionate about the book or if it was a really, really successful marriage made in a general meeting where. Where Benioff and Weiss and their company or Netflix had the rights to this and they were just taking meetings. It seems like someone who was really fleet of foot and not too reverential. And maybe the book's written in that spirit, I don't know. But immediately I was like, I'm really excited. People are telling me this story, and it happens to be a story that I know literally nothing about.

[A]

Well, and then you get into the performances, because I think that is kind of like the dice roll for all of these shows. This also kind of fits into a Netflix tradition of what I would very lovingly call Wikipedia shows, which is I, even for as much as I adore almost every iteration of Narcos has a little bit of like, that. There was Pablo Escobar, you know, like voiceover. And, you know, it just makes sure, you know, and that's the year that old Ronnie Reagan decided to war on drugs. Well, we had fun with that one.

[B]

You know, I feel like you should do this for a lot of our recaps.

[A]

Have Boyd Holbrook or just narrate history or like.

[B]

Like last week when we were talking about I love la, you were like, you know, Rachel Senate plays Maya, an up and coming manager who also sometimes does ketamine and cares about skin care.

[A]

Is the Silver Lake reservoir. That's what I'm looking for. I like to walk around with water bottles.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. You know, they called it Erewhan. They sold a smoothie, a 25 confection.

[A]

That's like, now you're sounding like Woodrow from Lonesome Job so well, because I was trying to stick to Boyd Olbrook.

[B]

Oh, I'm messing with your imitation. A minute ago, you're like, I only read Lonesome Dove.

[A]

That's not what I said. I just said that, like, once we get after the Civil War, okay, I go west like Horatio Alger. I don't stay over in the East.

[B]

You're not a creature of the swamp town of Washington. I get it. That said, do you think Boyd Holbrooke, in character as a 1980s DEA agent, sees the word smoothie for the first fucking time and nails it? You don't think it's possible that he garbled it?

[A]

Wouldn't he just be like, it's much like an Orange Julius.

[B]

That's exactly right. Sherbet in a cup for 30American dollars. Designed by the wife of a pop star, Justin Blieber.

[A]

Although this wife does do quite well in the makeup space and wellness, I.

[B]

Believe she's what's called an influence.

[A]

Pablo Escobar liked wellness of another kind. Knows wellness. Anyway. Death by lightning.

[B]

Say something controversial about a bagel store. Let's go mega viral. Yeah.

[A]

The cast of this show and what the cast is doing. One thing that's sometimes difficult with any show that you're going to start with two people on a collision course, but they're not going to have a ton of interaction, at least early on, is making sure this was an issue. I was always kind of curious with Task.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Ruffalo and Pelfrey kind of famously did not have very many scenes together and barely saw each other during production because they were shooting on different, you know, ends of. Of the city or because they were shooting in different locales or whatever. And he was like, yeah, you know, it was kind of always wondering, you know, making sure that we're in the same show, making sure that we're doing tonally something that is in the same show.

[B]

Complimentary.

[A]

And I think that this show so far is doing something wonderful with its two leads. McFadney is incredible in this first episode, playing someone who is essentially looks like a small time hustler who's been in and out of prison and in and out of scams and deals that fall through and is always looking for a get rich quick scheme, but in his mind, is a man of ambition and is a man of big dreams and is looking for someone to recognize that in him and give him the opportunity. He's constantly going up to people and saying, I have an opportunity to get give you. If you give me the opportunity to.

[B]

Make and to be seen by you.

[A]

Exactly. And he is essentially banging around Chicago, living with his sister, but is, I.

[B]

Think before released from prison at the.

[A]

Beginning of the series, before we had like a diagnosis for it would probably be. Be bipolar or something. You know, like, obviously is just has episodes of darkness, episodes where there's is a moment later in the first episode where he is chopping wood manically and nearly swings the axe at his sister, who is pretty much the only person in the world looking out for him.

[B]

Played by Paula Malcolmson, you might remember.

[A]

From Deadwood, which is worth mentioning as an influence on this show, because I think if you wanted to know the equation of this series, it would be basically gilded age by way of Deadwood. And I just thought that the energy that he was emitting was absolutely electric. And if Michael Shannon had been doing the same thing, like Twitchy kind of, it would have been too much. But Shannon is doing stock still. Man of Lincoln, farmer, has a great family, cares about like the right kind of thing.

[B]

Decent but unambitious.

[A]

Yeah. And it allows Shea Wiggum and Bradley Whitford to eat scenery. And Wiggum has this great scene in the first episode where he takes a piss and then he's like. Takes off all of his rings before he washes his hand. And that's like. I think that was my favorite scene in the episode when he's just sort of like, you should have stayed on that farm, you know? So look, this is, to me, honestly, a pretty easy recommend. Very easy. Did you have any other thoughts on it before we go? Oh, I had one more I wanted to give you.

[B]

Well, I. I think the performances are just great. Yeah, I think it's just great to see, first of all, elite facial hair acting by everyone involved can't possibly do better. It is a example of something that is just clearly elevated by the actors who are available to it. Because when you cast Shea Wiggum, and as you said, it's.

[A]

It's.

[B]

Everyone is perfectly cast, kind of reminds.

[A]

Me like American Masterpiece Theater.

[B]

Everyone is cat. Perfectly cast. Everyone is firmly in their bag. Yeah. But there is a directorial and producerial hand here because I think you. You characterized it well, that like, you can only spin Shea Wiggum at that velocity if other people aren't spinning as fast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's really artfully done that everyone is complimenting each other depending on the gradation of their. Of their. Of their spin. I'd also say it is. You know, we have. When the names David Benioff and D.B. weiss have come up on this podcast in the last year or so. It was a combination of optimism or incredulity about Three Body Problem, which was the, like the fruit of their massive, massive post Game of Thrones Netflix deal. We've also just kind of talked about the deal and how challenging it is to get the Albert Pujols deal after you've been an MVP elsewhere and you rarely get return on investment to that degree. It is worth celebrating then that however it got there, this came into Netflix through their deal and has to be considered, I think, a win as part of that deal.

[A]

I fist bumped both of those guys because when you really think about it, the two things that they have done and really I, I Would you consider what was the Sandra Osho, the chair?

[B]

Yeah. Oh, that's right.

[A]

Would you consider that part of their deal?

[B]

Well, it's probably why it ended up at Netflix.

[A]

Yeah, I would say good stuff. They have, they have done well, because I know people have. Like many people might think Three Body Problem fell short of their expectations either as fans of the books or is ridiculous and I understand that. But I thought it was a big swing and I liked a lot of it.

[B]

I liked it too. But the story of it is not as forgiving as we were about that first season. And I think generally when you hire big talent off the back of something very successful, it's hit or miss. Unless it's, you know, someone with a proven massive output like a Ryan Murphy or a Shonda Rhimes. An example I was thinking of was like when the Glover brothers left FX at the end of Atlanta and went to Amazon. We got Mr. And Mrs. Smith from it, which I adored, but that was Glover dependent because Donald was the star of it. And then I believe the only other thing we've gotten from that deal is Swarm, which was an incredibly bold and kind of brilliantly executed show that was a very challenging watch made by Ginny Nabors, their collaborator. And Amazon wasn't making that show without the deal. So kudos to the Glovers for lifting something up, but this is just feels. This is obviously a much more mainstream swing, but it is a. I think it's just a win.

[A]

We'll have this same conversation if we're still doing this in like a couple of years about the Duffer Brothers at Paramount and a about Taylor Sheridan at Universal.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I, I pledge to you to keep potting with you until we get the first Taylor Sheridan Peacock show.

[B]

That's beautiful. Wait, was it.

[A]

Will I still be here?

[B]

Was it in jeopardy.

[A]

It's like in 28, though, will I still be here?

[B]

Like, what sense? Like, I got a lot of history books to read starting around then, so it might really jive with my retirement. Also, Kaya's out here trying to get me just put on the ir. Like, I don't know if. If I'm gonna be free to give takes.

[A]

Okay. So big watch recommend to really liked it. I will just say if I. To not glaze this thing the entire time. Yeah, I could tell it was Budapest.

[B]

Because of the regressive politics off camera.

[A]

Well, I think it did a wise job of. I enjoyed the convention hall shot. Even if it's obviously like digitally replicating the first 50 guys into eternity there and apparently.

[B]

What just replicating the first 50 guys into infinity. My time in the post AI Hollywood trenches. Like, I just feel like this is. This is a memoir.

[A]

They've been doing that where it's just like, you know, the Battle of Troy and it's like, hey, there's a million people here. Somehow.

[B]

It's incredible.

[A]

I don't think Wolfgang Peterson had that budget, but okay. I just would say there are a couple of. Of scenes where I was just like. Well, that. That's not really like a thing. It's not a real place. But I find that the diorama nature of it to be effective. And they're not doing too much like epic sweeping shot of a city that we made in a computer. It's like pretty medium shot. Medium, kind of.

[B]

And again, we don't. We're not in the edit bay. I don't know what's always. What's this effect and what's not. I'm sure we get some things wrong just watching this as we are on.

[A]

Maybe they really have a thousand extras in a convention. Maybe. But they all stood. Exactly.

[B]

And they all spoke Magyar. So it's a little challenging to get them to cheer at the right moments. No, that. But that. That was one of my issues with Manhunt, which was it really felt cgie. It was filmed in Georgia. I think it filmed in Savannah. And there were some beautiful locations, but the old timeiness felt digitally added in a way that this show. I'm sure there are moments, but it was more tightly focused. And also because the writing is the way it is and the performances are the way they are, it's just making aesthetic choices in a more consistent way.

[A]

I have to tell you something. You don't know shit about CGI until you watch this season of Morning Show.

[B]

Just Terms of actors being in the same room or what?

[A]

It's that. I'll get to that.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[A]

But there are also multiple scenes where it's like a rooftop bar in New York City. And I'm like, this over. There's an overhead shot of Reese Witherspoon and Billy Crudup.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Slow dancing on a rooftop bar in NYC to a jazz band. No. No noise coming from below, you know, on streets.

[B]

No, that's because everything's free now.

[A]

And then either they have chosen to shoot it in a way that makes it look like it's shot in the volume or they shot it in the volume. It's one or the other. But I am also, like, why. You know, like, also, why are they slow dancing on a rooftop hotel?

[B]

Is there a moment that they were like. They wanted to prove, like, holding up like a newspaper in a hostage video. They wanted to prove they were in New York. So they had Amy Sedaris in the frame, but she's Amy Sedaris in her Mandalorian costume. Because they shot on the same volume in Manhattan Beach. Like, yay or nay. Yeah.

[A]

There is also. I have to admit that one of the major draws to me for watching this series continually is analyzing scenes where major characters, hugely famous people or moderately famous people, in the case of the example I'm about to give, are just simply clearly not in the same.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Set together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm not saying that it's a Good Wife thing where they're.

[B]

They're beefing with their mate, which we. Which was never confirmed.

[A]

It's a scheduling thing. And I think that they are doing their best to be like, we can get Greta for these days in between Tron Ares reshoots. So we will have her do this stuff. But this is a scene where Billy Crudup is also in the scene. And they just can't do. They can't make it work, but they're gonna do it. There is a scene in an episode I watched recently. This is the fifth season, fourth season of the morning show. Fifth season of the morning.

[B]

You're gonna have to tell me that one.

[A]

Season four. I wanna say no way to find out.

[B]

I'll find out while you talk. It's fine.

[A]

I talk where Billy Crud up.

[B]

And.

[A]

And something very crucial has happened in in the UBN World Season four.

[B]

Dog.

[A]

And they're walking past each other. Two ships passing at night. And also up and down the corporate ladder past.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It's like walking. And he's looking at her, but it's a single of him and she's looking at him, but single of her. Single of him. Single of her. And at the very last second, a woman with an amazing Greta Lee Wiggin walks out of the frame for two frames, walks out of the shot past Billy Crudup. But I'm like, she wasn't there. I just want to know. I want somebody, please. If you worked on morning show the [e-mail] please tell me she wasn't there and that I, I'm not spending all of my time being like, why is there only one shots of these people and not them together in a room together.

[B]

You know, we really should have one time like one day on the show as a guest would be a first ad because generally like, oh, the anonymous first ad. Just just to be like voice, like monster voice. Not. But not to like get dirt specifically about a show. Although obviously we'll take dirt. What's the, what's the email address?

[A]

The [e-mail].

[B]

Because of scheduling. Like, what a modern nightmare it is to schedule stuff now that everybody is working on lots of things now that everybody has positions that they're supposed to be delivering on and that because of the nature of TV shows, there are very few shows that have their cast under contract for multiple seasons in first position anymore. Yes.

[A]

And one of my favorite examples of this is Aaron Pierre is on this season.

[B]

Great.

[A]

He plays Marion Cotillard, who is sort of Sherry Redstone esque figure running the network or who owns the network or family Dumont family.

[B]

Sherry Redstone.

[A]

Every once in a while.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You look, you look at, you look up from your Robert Caro book and you're like, more like Sherry. Am I right?

[B]

Still got it.

[A]

He plays her husband. He is a art dealer, like art world connector for rich guys who want to get into art.

[B]

Sick job.

[A]

He is shot, his scenes are almost exclusively shot in a gorgeous loft somewhere where women routinely walk in and say, make me a drink. And his drink setup is like, better than most bars. So like he starts just pulling out Campari and gin and like making Negronis, but has like all this fresh fruit to peel. And I'm like, how many women are coming by asking for Negronis that this, these, you know, these oranges wouldn't go bad.

[B]

Oh, oh, interesting question. You don't think the oranges are replaced regularly also? Oranges are, you know, shelf, shelf stable for a while.

[A]

Are they? I mean, I don't really have any oranges at my house.

[B]

You also have scurvy. Go on.

[A]

There's also a major plot line in this season about Greta Lee's character developing an AI to translate and to replicate, like, the personal images and voices of the newscasters so that people can watch the Olympics in any language. And Bradley Jackson will still be their host or whatever.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But then that AI goes bad on her.

[B]

Oh, no, wait.

[A]

Well, because throughout the season, she's been, like.

[B]

Went bad faster than those oranges.

[A]

There's been all this, like, voiceover from. From Greta Lee's character, Stella, and you're like, I don't know. This seems like an excessive amount of, like, random monologuing for her. And it turns out she's been talking to her AI all season. And then the AI is like, the true reflection of her, like, insecurities, and it's like a crazy racist. Not that racist, but a little bit.

[B]

Like, racist enough to get elected.

[A]

I was falling asleep. But it was really crazy because she's giving this huge presentation where she's like, this AI is going to take us. Like, they have a problem at a presentation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so she's like, I'll just debut the AI and she hits play, and the. I just loses it immediately.

[B]

Could. Could you describe that scene the way Boyd Holbrooke would?

[A]

I can do one better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

One of the major characters of this season is a podcaster named Bro Hartman, played by Boyd Holbrooke.

[B]

Stop it.

[A]

It's like a Joe Rogan slash morning zoo guy who is speaking to the manosphere.

[B]

I never want to watch the show. I only want you to tell me about it.

[A]

And he at one point asked, after I can't remember who falls through. Chris, who's like, one of the other newscasters, gets accused of using steroids during her Olympics. So Boyd Ulbrich's character is gonna have to step in and, like, host the Olympics.

[B]

Okay, okay, listen.

[A]

And then he says, I'll do it, but only if you let me host the presidential debate. And they're like, okay. And then.

[B]

Okay, can I stop you for a second? Can you name the current news anchors for the major broadcast network? Because this show seems like it really.

[A]

Puts a lot of pressure on David Muir.

[B]

That's the. He's now the eminence grease of newscasters. He's been doing that. O'. Donnell. Where's she?

[A]

She's cbs, isn't she?

[B]

I think she. I think she left. Hold on. The problem is, she was just interviewing.

[A]

Trump, like, five weeks ago.

[B]

Listen, Move news travel on 60 minutes.

[A]

But I thought she was the night person.

[B]

Here's by the way. Here's also what's kind of incredible. This is like when we got to get home because a few weeks ago we were talking about Down Cemetery Road and I have not kept. I've got to watch the new episodes. We'll talk about it next week. And we were like, man, that one actor, again. No. Of knowing who he is, is really tall. And you were like, how tall is he? I was like, I bet he's tall enough. Google, Google. Google that. He's like 1.12 meters or whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we were like, no way of knowing how tall that is. I was going to do a bit just now where I was going to quiz you on the newsreaders, but I have to tell you, we remain in England.

[A]

So I have a list of BBC.

[B]

ITV and Fiona Bruce, Justin Webb, Ali Khan and Steven Dixon and Anne diamond on GB News.

[A]

Well, all those guys are going to be working for Trump tomorrow.

[B]

Nailed it.

[A]

Anyway, just so I just wanted to let you know that's where we're at. Also in the meantime, Tom Lamas, Bradley Jackson, who's played by Reese Witherspoon, who has been in like, four scenes with other actors this season, is working with Mark Duplass. Chip Black character, who used to be a producer on the Morning show but is now a documentary filmmaker. And they're getting after a controversy where there was this whole Michael Clayton situation with a pharmaceutical or, like, agricultural company called Wolf River.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

And people got poisoned. They're trying to get to the bottom of that and it might go all the way to the top. So just wanted to let you know what was going on.

[B]

A week or two ago, you were like, I gotta tell you, I don't remember if this was on mic or just as we were walking into the studio, you were like, morning show might actually be good this year. And I was like, cool, I'll check it out. Do you stand by that or is it just more like, wow, Morning show exists this year.

[A]

It's entertaining.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm entertained. You're entertained just hearing about it. Do you have any notes on I Love LA or Chair Company before we.

[B]

Get out of here? Just to say that we touched on it last week. Second episode of I Love la. I think we'd both watched it in advance. I really liked the second episode.

[A]

Very funny.

[B]

I really. I thought it was very funny. The second episode did have that moment that gave me my one note last week, which was the end where they are being, like, held coke hostage by the evil influencer.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And Maya pretends to go crazy to chase her out, but then she comes back and sees that she's been made fun of and excluded and then goes live on whatever the fuck to, like, talk shit about. Tallulah. I. My eyes glazed over at that point.

[A]

Not because of influencer drama.

[B]

Yeah, mainly because. And I could be wrong about this, and I also just could generally be wrong about the arc of the season. But it did feel to me like the kind of thing that is suggested or noted or even like, dreamed up in a writer's room when everyone's like, you're in series, you've done the pilot, you're in series. And it's just like, well, how are we gonna get some stakes here? How are we gonna really, like, have the rubber hit the road and get some momentum here so that the network understands that this is a show, not a hangout? I actually think it's a positive that it didn't need it now. Maybe it's gonna fuel.

[A]

You almost would prefer, like a more episodic, like, the crazy two women in LA rather than, like, a long running influencer beef that needs to get worked out over the course of season.

[B]

This might also be my Robert Caro in my Eames Chair era talking, but I find that uninteresting and uncompelling as, like, stakes. I don't actually care about that. I would have been fine with the episode if it ended with them just hanging. But I'm curious about what the balancing act is going to be going forward. And often a first season is figuring that out in real time.

[A]

Yeah, I loved the Roger and Munchy bit. That was really funny.

[B]

Show's really funny. I can't wait to watch the next episode.

[A]

Jordan Firstman and IO being in scenes together was great.

[B]

They're great.

[A]

What is going on with Chair Company?

[B]

I can't do Chair Company justice the way that you just do it like Boyd. Oh, I. I can't. It's just that what occurred at the end of this week's episode, which basically involves tracking down a little person actor who makes his living playing Scrooge in prisons and also posing for headshots for, like, bar memory games. They track him down at a bar where Ron warns a guy with a long braided ponytail and a massive dent in his head from some sort of metal plate surgery, that he's about to accidentally dip his white sleeve in some cheddar soup. And then the guy gets really mad at him for doing that. And then the little guy's like, you shouldn't have pissed him Off. This is a coke bar. And then everyone in the bar is on cocaine. And then the little guy says, I'll show you what I have on the Chair company, but I have to go do some cocaine first. And then he robs the cocaine. And then they run away from a mass of people, including the guy who has now been staring at Ron, dipping his elbow in the cheese soup, saying, is this what you were afraid of? Is this what you were afraid of? And Ron hits him in the dent to escape. And then, like Night of the Walking Dead, they all follow Ron and the little person and Mike to the little guy's house, where there's also a squatter in one room.

[A]

An old woman who's yelling, wait, not the woman, not the mother they threw popcorn at a couple weeks ago.

[B]

No, this is just that he opens another door, and there's just an old woman in there going, no, I'm not leaving. And Ron gets an iPad to the neck and head. And also there's a very, very large man with a very unique torso having an affair in the basement. When Ron walks in on them, says, the only way we're getting out of this is that if you have an affair with her, too, and I film it.

[A]

Does he say, unfair?

[B]

I think so. Or you cheat too? He's like, I'm a married man. He goes, you cheat too. It. I can't. I can't do it justice. I can't bring Boyd into this.

[A]

For 10 seconds, I was like, this. This is kind of why I fell off Chair company. But now I'm back in.

[B]

It is so unique, and I have not even. And I won't. For our beautiful listeners who need to see this themselves, it ends with something that I can't describe and frankly, I've never seen on television before. It is a very, very, very special show that we may never see again, honestly, because, like, the whole network might get shut down after this episode. God bless it.

[A]

That was a great description.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

When you run out of words to say, it's time to end the podcast episode.

[B]

That's probably right.

[A]

Thank you to Kya and Kai. Thank you for you guys putting Andy in the ER again. And again, thanks to Larissa for setting us up today here in London. We'll be back in Los Angeles next week, and I think what we've decided is no, no second episode this week.

[B]

Yeah, we're. We're.

[A]

And then we'll go hards Monday and Thursday next week.

[B]

I think that's really smart because our circadian rhythms are going to be. So I'm not worried about.

[A]

About the other way around.

[B]

I am.

[A]

I do well that way.

[B]

Like, just for the record, I've been away for six weeks. Yeah. And I immediately have to take my children to a school play that goes until 9pm like Friday or Saturday.

[A]

Saturday.

[B]

So I think it's going to be interesting. I would just like to pre apologize to the cast of this youth production. If there is just a man snoring, they're listening.

[A]

Do you recap little people doing cocaine.

[B]

Kaya, clip this. I'm so sorry. To the cast of Agatha Christie's I don't know what it is.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I'll do my best.

[A]

Thank you for listening to the watch. We'll be back next week.

[B]

God said of the king.