Jason Mantzoukas and Mallory Rubin on ‘Shoresy’ Season 5. Plus, ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ S2 Casting News, and a ‘Game of Thrones’ Film.

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Watch – Jason Mantzoukas and Mallory Rubin on ‘Shoresy’ Season 5, ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ S2 Casting News, and a ‘Game of Thrones’ Film

Date: March 5, 2026
Hosts: Chris Ryan (CR), Mallory Rubin (Mal)
Guest: Jason Mantzoukas
Podcast: The Watch (The Ringer)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into three corners of the pop-culture universe: the latest season of Canadian hockey comedy Shoresy, dramatic expansion of the Game of Thrones TV universe (with news on the second season of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms and a potential Thrones movie), and a broader discussion on TV franchise storytelling, including Star Wars and Marvel developments. Jason Mantzoukas joins Chris and Mallory for a spirited, personal, and often hilarious roundtable that balances deep fandom with sharp critique and heartfelt appreciation.

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Key Topics and Discussion Breakdown

1. Game of Thrones Universe Updates

(01:36–13:06)

Casting News for ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ S2

• Lucy Boynton as Lady Rohan: Well-received by all, especially Mallory.
• Babu Ceesay as Ser Bennis of the Brown Shield: Generates excitement and anticipation for the portrayal of this “truly deranged character.” (04:25)
• Peter Mullan: Recognized as a heavyweight character actor, known for menacing roles (“an absolute monster of an actor”). (06:07)

Adaptation Talk and Book vs. Show Perspectives

• Mallory discusses listening to the Dunk & Egg audiobooks, calling them “incredible...so digestible” (05:02–05:13), urging CR to read them.
• CR jokes about maintaining his “ignorant guy” angle on Thrones podcasts for comedic effect. (05:46)

Expectations and Format Debates

• Jason and Mallory note the pain of waiting years between shows like House of the Dragon and praise the idea of annual Dunk & Egg stories: “It’s the thrill of a lifetime...an absolute delight.” (06:56–07:43)
• They praise A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms and shows like Slow Horses for balancing scale, scope, and regularity: “Threading the needle.” (07:43–08:37)

Film News: A Game of Thrones Movie

• Bo Willimon’s script for a film, seemingly about Aegon’s Conquest, is in the works (10:14).
• Jason pitches that the film should focus on the Blackfyre Rebellion: “Give us, in real time in our lives, a movie about this key event at this stretch of the [canon].” (11:22)
• Discussion of Warner Bros–Paramount merger and franchise management, reflecting industry uncertainty and changing franchise futures. (12:27–13:44)

Broader Franchise Reflections

• The hosts reference cross-IP fantasies (24 Jump Street x Men in Black) as emblematic of Hollywood’s current universe fixation.
• Brief reflection on Star Wars’ future and generational fandom, with emphasis on the need for variety and generational relevance:

  “Star Wars shouldn’t be for 53 year olds. It should be for everybody, I’m saying. But it should be aimed at a young [audience].” – Mallory (16:44)

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2. The State of Franchises: Star Wars, Marvel, TV, and Audiences

(13:44–22:26)

• Are franchises losing younger fans? CR wonders if Star Wars et al. mainly serve older generations now, while new adaptations (e.g., video game adaptations) draw in the youth.
• Toxicity of “Only Andor Is Good” takes: Jason warns against monolithic fan thinking, crediting Andor’s uniqueness but warning:

  “If everybody else is like ‘the only good Star Wars is Andor’, then everything is gonna be diluted and bad.” – Jason (16:35)

Marvel & TV Storytelling Structure

• Mallory lauds Wonder Man for its grounded, focused approach and critiques the Marvel “sprawl.”
• Comics cited as a model for balancing street-level and “event” storytelling.

The Star Wars Equation

• Star Wars creative missteps attributed to a lack of long-term vision and flexibility (Obi-Wan project evolution noted as an example—21:15).

Key Take

• All three advocate for more variety in storytelling focus, better cross-generational targeting, and creative freedom within big franchises.

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3. Shoresy Season 5: Deep Dive

(23:26–81:17)

Show Background & Format

• Shoresy spun off from Letterkenny, centering on the vulgar, relentlessly competitive hockey player Shorzy (Jared Keeso).
• Initially about a struggling, semi-pro senior hockey team in Sudbury; evolved in S4–5 to explore mentorship and post-playing careers.

Series Evolution

• S4: “A refreshing way to tell Shoresy stories...summer break, mentoring teenagers, growing relationships” – Mallory (27:10)
• S5: “Obsessed with this show...It is for the young characters and the old characters alike, eternally a coming of age story and a story about identity and sense of self.” – Jason (28:07–29:06)

Season 5 Structure and Thematic Focus

• S5 starts with a hilarious, idiosyncratic group masturbation scene—a “perfect” tone-setting opener for the show’s balance of crude humor and genuine emotional depth (35:01–37:18).
• Emphasis on community, found family, and emotional openness among men—particularly through the mentor-mentee dynamic between Shorzy and Jack. Significant praise for the scene where Shorzy calmly helps a sobbing Jack process his feelings after a tough game (39:21–40:18).

Notable Quote

“Instead, Shorzy’s just like, let it out...You already started, so let’s finish it.”
— Chris on Shorzy’s surprising compassion (39:43–39:49)

• Mo, Shorzy’s brother, is introduced, enriching Shorzy’s backstory and giving new context for his coaching style and reluctance to coach:

  “It’s easier for him to coach a kid through their emotions than it is for him to deal with his own.” – Chris (44:24)

Sports as Metaphor & TV Utopia

• CR: “It’s a show about utopia...these guys are always having a good time, nobody has a hard life.” (31:57–33:44)
• The importance of the hockey community and mentorship, with the sport as both literal and emotional context.

Season Plot Mechanics & Philosophy

• With the local league folding, the team faces an EU All-Star squad—symbolizing existential questions of identity, change, and honor in Canadian hockey (50:14–52:53).
• Outdoor game against EU, the town rallying around the team, and the battle for a deeper sense of identity and tradition.

Memorable Moment

“The idea of this team, the Sudbury Blueberry Bulldogs, folding inside of the existent no show was the crisis. And now Shorzy walks in and Nat’s like, the no show is gone.”
— Jason on how the season subverts expectations (51:27)

Heart and Humor—The Show’s Secret Weapon

• Season’s structure allows for moving, tear-jerking moments and riotous comedy, with special mention for the camaraderie and the central “who are you?” locker-room identity ritual (43:56–44:24).
• Repetitive jokes become structurally important, echoing both comedy and emotional arcs (“the rhythm and language of the show” – Jason, 28:07).

Favorite Characters & Best Moments

• Hitch is hailed as a favorite for everyone, especially his emotional response to becoming team captain:

  “When Shorzy makes Hitch captain...I was a wreck.” – Mal (62:28–62:38)

• Zeke and Jory also praised for their scene-stealing supporting roles.

Secondary Storylines

• Shorzy’s media career, TV segments, and the Gretzky cameo—“the best moment of my life” for Shorzy (67:52).
• The evolution of Shorzy’s relationship with Laura, including negotiating moving in together and forming a family with her son (73:15–74:29).
• The revival of heated local rivalries, the strip club’s return, and the unwavering, bumbling devotion of the group.

Slice-of-Life & Longevity Questions

• Speculation on how the show might evolve if it moved away from central hockey plots, reflecting on the show’s “refillable” quality (74:29–77:45).

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4. Canadian TV Universe & Heated Rivalry

(81:17–89:35)

• Discussion of Jacob Tierney’s new series Heated Rivalry as a notable, prestige counterpoint to Shoresy (“radically different,” “prestige TV”), but sharing DNA in its focus on flawed, nuanced, small-town characters.
• Episodes in Heated Rivalry compared to the best on TV this year; special mention for its handling of surprise and characterization.

  “It’s just much more interesting to watch TV about characters that aren’t easily pinned down.” – Chris (84:27)

• Music choices (Wolf Parade drops) and choreography (long, music-driven montages) noted as connective visual/tone tissue.

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Notable Quotes

• “[Shoresy] is for the young characters and the old characters alike, eternally a coming-of-age story.” – Jason (28:07)
• “If everybody else is like, the only good Star Wars is Andor ... everything is gonna be diluted.” – Jason (16:35)
• “Threading the needle ... you are doing an incredible show that has scale and scope, fantastic performances, but it comes out every 10 months.” – Mallory (07:43)
• “Instead, Shorzy’s just like, let it out ... You already started, so let’s finish it.” – Chris (39:43)
• “The idea that you could keep playing with these characters ... this is a show always refillable because the characters are just so perfect.” – Mallory (79:46)
• “It’s just much more interesting to watch TV about characters that aren’t easily pinned down.” – Chris (84:27)

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Key Timestamps

• 03:00 – Shoresy and Letterkenny context
• 04:05–07:07 – Game of Thrones casting and Dunk & Egg adaptation
• 10:14–12:27 – GoT movie script, franchise consolidation concerns
• 13:44–18:10 – Star Wars & Marvel franchise discussion, generational appeal
• 24:59–31:10 – Shoresy narrative recap and show evolution
• 35:01–40:18 – S5E1 masturbation scene, emotional coaching moment with Jack
• 52:58–59:46 – Outdoor game mechanics, no show league folding, assembling the No Show All Stars
• 62:15–63:46 – Favorite Shoresy characters, Hitch praised
• 67:52–69:01 – Gretzky storyline, live Shoresy games
• 73:15–77:07 – Shorzy’s relationship with Laura, show’s possible directions
• 81:17–86:42 – Heated Rivalry, Keeso and Tierney compared, cinematic DNA
• 88:24–89:35 – Montage style and music in both shows

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Tone and Style

• Format is loose, conversational, sometimes explicit—mirroring both the irreverence and heart of Shoresy itself.
• Deep knowledge of TV and genre storytelling; discussion punctuated with laughter, candid admissions, and close personal/fan connections.
• Equal parts critical and celebratory, welcoming listeners at any level of fandom—expert, casual, or newcomer.
• Language retains the hosts’ and guest’s casual, self-effacing, and sometimes raunchy tone.

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Takeaway

This episode embodies passionate fandom at its best: sharp, hilarious, and deeply emotionally invested. Through their thoughtful, personal, and joyfully nerdy commentary, Chris, Mallory, and Jason make the case for why Shoresy is one of TV’s most touching and unique comedies, why the Game of Thrones universe still excites, and how good storytelling—whether prestige or populist—remains a balancing act between nostalgia, innovation, and character-first writing.

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Transcript

[Chris Ryan]

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[Chris Ryan]

I need support staff to clear the room.

[Mallory Rubin]

Stand up and walk now.

[Chris Ryan]

Hello and welcome to the Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] and joining me in a new studio after receiving what could only be described as a monsoon of laffies, it's Mallory Rubin and our special guest, one of the great watchers of Try on halls, Jason Mantuk.

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's go. Come on from our chain. Settle down to the studio.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Settle down everyone give your balls a tug.

[Chris Ryan]

We are here to talk about the fifth season of Shout Out.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're doing a great job setting the tone. Cr. Thank you for Gotta set the tone.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I texted you guys last night. Give your boss a tug. Neither of you replied, no I didn't.

[Mallory Rubin]

I did. I did. Which I felt like as commanded.

[Chris Ryan]

It didn't seem like appropriate to be like I've completed the task.

[Mallory Rubin]

How did she know they were so cramped up in there?

[Chris Ryan]

Jason Mansukas and I, we did Shores Season 4.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I remember and and I stood outside of the studio heartbroken, waited for you two to emerge to tell you that I have Genuinely never in my life felt so betrayed by two people I considered dear, dear friends.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So Mal like Shorzy too. And I didn't want a workplace complaint against me.

[Mallory Rubin]

You kept saying this one's just for the boys.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I thought it was boys or the boys.

[Mallory Rubin]

The boys.

[Chris Ryan]

But no, I would never do season another season of Shornsy. I will never do without you. You love this more purely than almost anything in your life. I think do like this show a lot.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, obsessed. Obsessed with this show. I'm I and some one of the nerds that loves this show will figure out is I recommended this show on the watch at least a year before I think you even started watching. Absolutely.

[Chris Ryan]

I was just like very long time letter Kenny. And I was like, yeah, but like that's kind of dull sometimes. This is one of my favorite shows. It's been in my top 10 the last two years. I think it probably will be again this year. Oh, we're going to get to Shoresy. We're going to probably talk a little bit of heat or rivalry because of the extended Canadian hockey TV pipeline and the Jacob Tierney connection that no longer really exists with Shorzy. But I think it's important to talk about. And we'll talk about some other stuff. Obviously to start with, I wanted to since I have two of the biggest Game of Thrones fans in my life, I think chat a little bit about some developments in Westeros.

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's go.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Let's do it.

[Chris Ryan]

Number one is on a treat.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just take a trip.

[Chris Ryan]

TV is being TV and they're shooting Night of the Seven Kingdoms. I think they are in production. And Night of the Seven Kingdoms casting news. Lucy Boynton, who people might remember from Sing Street Horror heads might remember from Black Coat's Daughter.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay. I think everybody remembers that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Not familiar.

[Chris Ryan]

She is playing Lady Rohan.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I like it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

One of the main characters in season two.

[Chris Ryan]

One of the most exciting developments. Babu Sise from Alien Earth.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Freaked out when I saw this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Awesome.

[Chris Ryan]

Morrow is playing Ser Bennis.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Bennis of the Brown Shield. Bennus the Brown. A truly deranged character. I can't wait.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wild character.

[Chris Ryan]

Peter Mullen.

[Mallory Rubin]

CR. Wait a minute.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Have you. Because of talk the Thrones. Because of House of Ar. I did something that I've never done before, which was I read Game of Thrones books. Okay. And so. And when I say I read them, I mean I listened to the audiobooks.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's a wonderful audiobook, you see, for

[Mallory Rubin]

these novellas and they are incredible. And all three books are a sum total of nine hours long.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I've tried to convince him.

[Mallory Rubin]

So digestible, and it is so great. I cannot recommend it enough.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't doubt that. I would love it. Here's my thing. If I become a guy who also reads books, then what's. What's the angle I bring to talk to Thrones?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, remember the angle you bring now to talk to Thrones. You're beautiful, shining personality, your spirit and your essence. Is reading a novella going to SAP the world?

[Chris Ryan]

But I am a guy who beautifully. I haven't read the book. So explain to me what this means.

[Mallory Rubin]

So you want. You're trying to maintain your position. Your position.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Excuse.

[Mallory Rubin]

Your excuse is ignorance is my bit.

[Chris Ryan]

This would be like if Pete Hegseth stopped doing pushups.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know what I mean?

[Mallory Rubin]

This is like, I've only been here 15 minutes. This is the third time you've compared yourself to Hegseth.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, got news for you. I've been with him all day. The tally is higher.

[Mallory Rubin]

You also said you don't podcast with fatties, which I thought was super weird and gross.

[Chris Ryan]

The last cast member of Night of the Seven Kingdoms season two is Peter Mullen, who people may remember as being a fucking scumbag on Ozark and one

[Mallory Rubin]

of the great actors of our time. Great character actor, Absolute monster of an actor that is like, just sneaking through the world, just giving unreal performance after unreal performance.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you ever see him on the streets of London when you were doing Taskmaster?

[Mallory Rubin]

When I was doing Taskmaster, I remember just walking the streets of London and being like, hey, Petey Muls, Trudy Dennis. Hey, DJ D, what's up?

[Chris Ryan]

So excitement abounds. And how does it feel as a longtime Thrones chronicler, to be right back in it where you're like, okay, the ball's. The boulder's going downhill. We're gonna get this next year.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, it's the thrill of a lifetime, not only to have a good show, but to have it in our lives consistently. Like, I'm higher on House of the Dragon than many are as the two people.

[Chris Ryan]

I think so.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But having to wait, you know, multiple years between seasons is painful. So it's great to know that we're gonna get a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms every year and that there's a continuity of character. Dunk and egg. We have this, like, wonderful investment after six episodes now in that relationship, and then we get to meet new people because we're in a new place. And the ideas of the novellas, that they're like, where are These guys at this moment in time and what is this story and this adventure? Who is gonna move into the show and into their lives as a result? To get to do that every winter or whatever the calendar ends up being is like an absolute delight.

[Mallory Rubin]

One of the things that I think is so difficult and I feel like both of you talk about on your shows is this collision of prestige tv, high end, elevated television. These shows that are hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars to produce and take a year to make. And huge. Just like the ambition is off the charts. The shows are huge. And then we also talk about. Or you talk about and I've talked about as well, just, boy, isn't it fun to have tv? Sure. The pit things that feel like tv. And now I feel like a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms or something. Like Slow Horses is threading the needle. Slow Horses is. You are doing an incredible show that has scale and scope, fantastic performances, but it comes out every 10 months. A new season. Boom. And if they can. And knowing the novellas, as I now do as a well read.

[Chris Ryan]

Wes DeRossi, an audiobook subscriber.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yes. With an Audible account. Worry about it. Or you know what? A Spotify account.

[Chris Ryan]

This is a Spotify podcast. I like testing the limits a little

[Mallory Rubin]

bit just to see who's in. I bet they bleeped. Yeah, I bet the whole time it's just bleeped off. I say. Or. Or Spotify doesn't want the libraries to get the subscri. The subscribers. So I think burning library cards. Oh, yeah. Oh, I think Spotify put all the libraries out of business. Yeah, pretty much.

[Chris Ryan]

Were they really ever in business, like.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah. For profit libraries.

[Chris Ryan]

It was just like late fees. That's a good idea though, dude.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Should we get into that for profit libraries?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We could call it a bookstore.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, that's interesting.

[Chris Ryan]

You have to bring it back, though.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What do you think?

[Chris Ryan]

You have to bring the book back. We charge you $13.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

But you still have to bring back. What are you paying for?

[Mallory Rubin]

It's a book rental.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like Blockbuster.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's Hollywood Video or Blockbuster. Are you paying for early access? You get to cut off the line. Are you paying for a recommendation? CR's picks.

[Mallory Rubin]

I love curation. That's great. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I would rather be the old school version because, you know, like the librarian, it would just be like, you call and you'd be like, what's the weather tomorrow? And they'd have to answer. Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Remember, I never did that, but I called the weather.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you guys call the newspaper to get the weather.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, interesting.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, we're really old.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm older than you, so you probably don't remember that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, and I'm older than both of you by a bunch.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But I am older in spirit. And I would say probably if we did some testing also body, then both of you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, please. My body is in active comfort collapse.

[Chris Ryan]

Jason, you mentioned the TV ification of Game of Thrones. I thought this was really interesting that this week, among everything else that's happening in Hollywood with Paramount and Warner Brothers and I are going to.

[Mallory Rubin]

What's going on with Paramount and Warner Brothers. They.

[Chris Ryan]

They bought each other. And me and Andy will probably get more into that on Monday. But it came out in, I believe, Variety first, but widely reported that Bo Williman has a script for a Game of Thrones movie that I don't know they're moving forward on that.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's.

[Chris Ryan]

The draft is in. This has been reportedly, it centers on Aegon's conquest.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So we've been hearing for some time that the Aegon's conquest story that was in development could end up being a movie, right?

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I pitched this to Joe in real time yesterday on House of R on our mailbag episode. I don't know if there is enough opportunity, enough of a window here to change what this movie's about. I think Egon's conquest as a movie at some point in time would be great.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you mean within the confines of this podcast? Or like, you could get Casey on

[Jason Mantzoukas]

the phone and be like, casey listens to the watch.

[Chris Ryan]

Casey, if you're listening, he only listens to Andy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, can we call Andy? Can we get him in? He doesn't want Shorzy.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's a huge Shoresy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm here today. I think that this movie should be a blackfyre rebellion movie, a first blackfire rebellion movie, so that we stay in continuity in the timeline. And then it's also like, clarifying, why is this a movie? Why is this a show? Because we're in a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms in this stretch of the canon as a telev. We're glimpsing, oh, we were at the red grass Field. We're hearing people say, blackfire Pretender. Give us in real time in our lives, a movie about this key event at this stretch of the cave.

[Chris Ryan]

Casuals.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think, though my question would be, are they doing the math and saying a movie at this scale is four years away from being released? Probably we will have done all the Dunkin Egg stuff.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, they're gonna be doing dunkin egg for 15 years, but they will be finished doing House of the Dragon by then. So that does alleviate a little bit of the. We have Game of Thrones here, we have House of the Dragon here. We have a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms here. We have Aegon's conquest here. That's, I think, disorienting to ask people to track that many points of Targaryen history simultaneously. I do think Aegon's conquest would be a great movie and better probably as a movie than a show.

[Chris Ryan]

The reason why I just raised an eyebrow when I saw this story come out was obviously a lot of panic going on about what this merger means for jobs in Hollywood, et cetera, and like the content pipeline. But I think also there's like some sweat, like some well earned sweat going on about, like, what happens to some of the franchises and some of the IP that belong to Warner Brothers and then being transferred over to Paramount. And this to me was like, be cool.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's still.

[Chris Ryan]

It's still in the works. And like, maybe this will be like a big thing that, you know, skydives. Paramount throws itself behind. I personally, as somebody who's just a glass half full guy, always.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Taylor Sheridan, George R.R. martin, Shared Universe. Westeros, Sicario.

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's go fucking.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's get.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You have my attention.

[Chris Ryan]

Geoffrey Donovan from Sicario.

[Mallory Rubin]

Done.

[Chris Ryan]

Tack vest and big glasses.

[Mallory Rubin]

This sounds. I would love for these things to just start collapsing into each other. That was my favorite. Never made, but intended to be made sequel. Which was. Which was 24 Jump Street. Men in Black 4.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Which was that those two things would collide.

[Chris Ryan]

And that was one of those scripts that got to like, all the way up to like the main. The last desk it needed to clear. And they were like, no, what are we doing? Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

But I love that conceptually, but it really is like, you know, these are worlds that I'm genuinely like, what is about to happen inside of Harry Potter? Inside of this. Inside. Yeah. You're talking about in regards to this specific merchant.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sure.

[Mallory Rubin]

But I think that is like we're having that conversation in terms of what's going on with Star Wars. What does Star wars look like right now? You know, Mandalorian and Grogu. Trailer question mark.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He refuses to engage. He has said. And he has been pushed and has refused to budge. He's not gonna see the movie.

[Chris Ryan]

Sorry for having.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not gonna see the movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Which I think is.

[Mallory Rubin]

Now that's interesting.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. It's just principles.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Principles.

[Mallory Rubin]

Principles. And what are Those principles.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, if you walk us through, what

[Mallory Rubin]

do you stand for?

[Chris Ryan]

The principle is when you're like, I'm not gonna go watch this volume.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is good. He's not telling us what his principles are. He's just telling us what a principle is conceptually.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, here's what I thought about. I thought about tripling down and being like, no more Star wars after andor. It's over.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's not, by the way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is toxic.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't like this at all. It's toxic. But I will agree in the sense that in a world in which cr. You have continued. Well, no, actually, you've led up a little bit on one of your other principles, which was no animation.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, I've softened.

[Mallory Rubin]

You have softened for animation some. And I've. I will say Star wars animation is without a doubt wonderful. The best and. Or accepted. Some of the best Star wars of the last 25 years is in animation form full stop, you know, And I worry about the next round of stuff as much as everybody. I'm also lamenting the loss of the Damon Lindelof lakeith Stansfield starring Jedi story. That's like, where is that? Give me that. You know, and so, like all of these worlds that we love, boy, am I nervous about what's about to happen to all.

[Chris Ryan]

There's also this funny thing that's happening. And I imagine you must feel this because you're. You're kind of like trying to watch these stories develop over the course of years when you're doing House of Horror where, like, I feel like maybe some of these franchises that we identify so deeply with are not appealing to younger people and that they're like, for me, it's Super Mario brothers. And I know that that's like. Or like some of the stuff where you're like, oh, man, this video game's really hitting for people like this. Like this adaptation of a video game. Whereas, like, we're still like, no, there's another way to do Star wars, man. We can do one more thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Why can't there be myriad ways? Why can't there be Star wars content that is for younger people?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is why I said his I'm stopping Star wars after andor take is toxic for that exact reason. The thing that allowed us to get the brilliance and unrivaled excellence of andor in the first place, of course, is Tony Gilroy's genius. A really clear vision, et cetera. But it was like, we're gonna do something that is specifically, utterly itself.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So then if Everybody else is like, the only good Star wars is Andor or I want to try to make andor, then everything is gonna be ubiquitous and shamey and diluted and bad.

[Mallory Rubin]

And I think the other thing is we can't just be doing fan service for the fans who are like, listen. Nobody should be really listening to me. Star wars shouldn't be for 53 year olds.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, I think it should be for everybody.

[Mallory Rubin]

It should be for everybody, I'm saying. But it should be aimed at a young.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I make it to 53, but when I, if I do, I still want

[Mallory Rubin]

to watch Star wars and I love it. And I watch all of it, every scrap of it, you know, like, and I'm listening to the audiobooks. I'm listening, I'm all of it. I'm all in on Star Wars. But I'm not saying all Star wars needs to be andor because Andor is unquestionably a mature show. You know, there should be stuff that we should be like, oh, this is, you know, not for me. Because it's aimed at a young audience, which is perfect. You know, we need to be bringing still people, bringing people in.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But are we have a few colleagues and close friends who have young children who are falling, getting in love with

[Chris Ryan]

Star wars real time. I think I'm thinking about it more in terms of like, they just want

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Uncle Chris to take them to see Mando Grogu and he says, fuck off.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, what's the dream about what happened in the movie theaters last year in 2025 is the success of One Battle Sinners and weapons and people saying like original movies are back. These kinds of stories resonate with people because they aren't rehashes of, you know, the same like three films over and over and over again. We can break out of these like templates that we have. And then on the flip side of that, a lot of box office success was rooted in things like Minecraft.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, don't pretend.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I, for a second I was

[Mallory Rubin]

like, did they make a minesweep?

[Chris Ryan]

I thought they maybe made a minesweeper movie, but that would be pretty boring.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't believe this for a second.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm sorry, I'm just a leftist and or fan.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, I'm just joking.

[Chris Ryan]

I will watch more Star Wars. I just.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, no, I agree with you because

[Chris Ryan]

specifically Mandarin Grogu, there's something wrong with this movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It connects to the opening. Hey, let's talk about the new cast of a Night of the Seven Kingdom season two point, right? Because it's like the part of the reason that that show was such like a jolt for Game of Thrones fans and such an animating experience of like, not just is this good, it is. Does the show understand what it's trying to be? Yes. Is the tone clear? Yes. Is the sensibility established? Yes. You felt in real time and it built week after week. People were excited not only to consume it, but to share it with each other. So I see this cast list today for three of the main roles in the second season and I am levitating.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I feel as alive as I have as a Thrones fan in years because it's like these are excellent performers who are coming in to perform crucial roles for a moment in time. Right. And it's gonna be beautiful. It's six weeks and I can't wait. And that's all we need. Cause it knows what it is.

[Mallory Rubin]

And I think that Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is interested in telling slice of life short form stories, you know, and that is something that larger IP driven stuff, whether it's the mcu, whether it's all the Star wars, whether it's all that stuff, are predominantly interested in stories that are too interwoven with the rest of their stories. And it has become unwieldy. Unless you are.

[Chris Ryan]

This was the success of Wonder Man. To me, this is just like Wonder man should just be like a model for Marvel going forward and instead it's gonna be an anomaly, I would imagine.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, wouldn't it be great if they could figure out both. If they could figure it out so that it wasn't feast or famine, so that it wasn't one or the other that they're servicing a larger comics does this. Comics can do storytelling where you are following an issue to issue storyline in Daredevil that is about Hell's Kitchen and one law case that he's pursuing. But then yes, he is part of a larger event that's happening that includes Dr. Strange and Spider man and team ups and all the rest. How can you figure out how to tell grounded street level stories like Wonder man that feels like a cohesive whole, but that doesn't concern itself with Multiverse or what's Loki up to or any other nonsense.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What if we put Trevor Slattery in

[Mallory Rubin]

everything, by the way, and just let them do Shakespeare monologues all the time. I loved it.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, and I think also there's a little bit of.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Did you get rid of your computer? Now I'm going to get rid of mine. We go on computer.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't need it. You're my two favorite people, and this is a show I can. I can talk about with my eyes closed.

[Mallory Rubin]

We are your two favorite people. I love this. Andy, you can.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

One of the two of you is one of my favorite people.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, I love it. Now we just compete.

[Chris Ryan]

You can guess. All right, I want to get to sh in a second. I do want to say one more thing about Star Wars. Here's the thing, okay. There is a issue with that franchise that I think is, like, a little bit of too big to succeed. So they are now operating to succeed because they're operating at a margin where they're like, it costs X amount to make one of these things, and so it needs to be Y amount of a success for it to be worth it. And so the reason why I almost feel like Charlie Brown with the football with some of this stuff is that when they first started talking about Kenobi, it was the guy who wrote Drive, and it was supposed to be Ben Kenobi. Like noir detective, Jedi detective acolyte. Clearly went through some kind of, like, transformation in its. From its inception to its actual release. Like, they have messed with this stuff for the most part. And the reason why andor is andor for a hundred reasons is because they almost wrote it where it's like, you can't do anything to this. Like there you could. You can have Vader walk across the screen if you want. But for the most part, this thing is like. So it's like a watch. Like, you wouldn't be able to do anything with the gears and the hands. You know what I mean?

[Mallory Rubin]

I also think they trapped themselves in a process that did not reward building a new thing. Like they from the foundation, built something weak without a plan. Looking ahead with just kind of freestyling movie to movie for that first trilogy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. Would you say there was one fatal flaw inside of the machine and that if you just.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, and if you just like, put the shield up, put the shield away,

[Mallory Rubin]

put the device away and just trusted your. I mean, I would say, like, the thing that they didn't do with all of Star wars and that boy, do I hope Filoni will remedy it. Is exactly the advice that Shorzy would give them. Go out, kill some guys fucking pro.

[Chris Ryan]

Score some goals.

[Mallory Rubin]

Score some goals. Make sure they never forget who you are.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Never let them forget who you are. Who are we?

[Chris Ryan]

Let's talk about the Sudbury Blueberry Bulldogs.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

So for casuals who were just along for the ride for a few minutes here, let me Talk a little bit about Shorzy. Broadly. This is a now long running Canadian sports comedy from Jared Kiso who previously had done the incredibly long running Letterkenny which was a Canadian slice of life comedy. When Jared Kisso first started Shorzy, it was in creative tandem somewhat with Jacob Tierney who has since gone on to great acclaim for his writing and directing work on Heated Rivalry where he makes one of the most assured TV series in recent memory.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, and one of the most explosives in Everywhere.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

And Jared. So he writes every episode I believe is credited to Kiso. I think there might be.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, there's some. I think there's a couple of other.

[Chris Ryan]

But he did every episode this season.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think so.

[Chris Ryan]

And the first computer open, you can

[Mallory Rubin]

check and Shz is a character in Letter Kenny for many seasons in Letterkenny Shores he is an unseen character that Jared Kisso plays. Okay, so Kiso plays Shorzy in the show Shorzy that we watch. But he plays Wayne on Letterkenny, one of the leads but invents this side character who's a hockey player who's constantly taunting other hockey players. But it's always from like a bathroom stall or a shower in the first season. Visually obfuscated.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. The first three seasons of Shorzy are essentially a cycle about semi pro senior league hockey team in Sudbury come rising from here.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Should we start calling it Burberry in honor of the great one, Wayne Gretzky, who called it Burberry instead of Sudbury. Incredible moments of the season.

[Chris Ryan]

Shout out to everybody writing into the watch mailbox thewatchpotify.com because a lot of insight into how Canadians are feeling about Wayne Gretzky, the great one these days.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh really? How so? Mixed. Mixed? Why? I'm curious.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that his.

[Mallory Rubin]

Or is there news or is this always been the case?

[Chris Ryan]

No, it's just I think Wayne's gone out of his way to associate himself with our president here in the United States of America.

[Mallory Rubin]

I didn't know that.

[Chris Ryan]

And our president has talked a lot about colonizing Canada.

[Mallory Rubin]

I made a 51st state joke at a How did this get made show in Vancouver and they were not into it. They were not into it and booed me for quite a while.

[Chris Ryan]

Because of the joke or because of the idea behind the joke?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think because of the idea behind that. They weren't like hey, even that I, they. They wouldn't even entertain the joke of it. It was. They shut it down.

[Chris Ryan]

So that came up. But you know, and then so they do the first three seasons. I think a flawless three season run, which isn't to say there are really any flaws with 4 and 5. It's just a different show. It's now about a post playing career for our titular character. The fourth season I thought was lovely. Jason and I talked about it a lot.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, you sure did. He sure did.

[Mallory Rubin]

Fourth season was a blast because it's like the show has so few moves to make sure in terms of these people and where they are. And it's constantly calibrating and recalibrating them in context of the game, the league and each other in a wonderful way. But the fourth season did two incredible things, which was it introduced a series of young people that our team became the kind of mentors to like teenagers. And the entire fourth season took place off season.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

So it was about summer in Sud Vegas. Yes. It was all about summer break. And so the vibes were so different and it was such a refreshing way to tell Shoresy stories.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

And plus the love story between Shorzy and Laura. And Laura is incredible in that season.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. Which takes another step this season. So go.

[Mallory Rubin]

Which was why I was shocked when we did our season four wrap up that you were in the insistent on not having Mal. You know. Yeah, you know, it's. It's because I was like, she's right there.

[Chris Ryan]

She's outside the window literally looking through the door wearing big Bulldogs jersey. I don't remember why I didn't have you on. It might not have been a concerted effort or you may have been projecting a lot of stress at that moment.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That would be. That would be shocking. That doesn't seem likely.

[Chris Ryan]

But you're here now.

[Mallory Rubin]

It does sound like Mal.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Can't imagine it was that.

[Chris Ryan]

Why don't. I'm going to lay out for you here, like tell me about your just relationship to sh.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. Learned about it from you guys. So that's nice because I cherish things that I get to share with you even if you don't feel the same way. I will cry today as I cry during every season of Shores. Couple moments this season hit me so hard. I was sobbing like a baby. I love this show. It took me as. I think it takes some people, maybe like two. It's, you know, each season is six episodes. They're somewhere between 18 to like 27 minutes. And it took me probably like three episodes into the first season to get acclimated right to the tone, to the pace, to the nature of the dialogue, to the fact that every like fourth or fifth line is a repeated line of dialogue or an in joke. The rhythm and language of the show. Once I had a feel for that, I thought I was experiencing the most magical. I love sports. It's a great sports story. It is a story about community. It is for the young characters and the old characters alike, eternally a coming of age story and a story about identity and sense of self. And I think it is a beautiful, beautiful friendship and relationship story.

[Mallory Rubin]

And found family story in that regard.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Absolutely, yes. And so the ability, right. The micro and macro community, the community of the team, a line inside of the team. And then Sudbury at large also then like one of the genius strokes in this season. Well, okay, you had something like the. The hunt, right. The U.S. team in prior seasons is a real, like, real thorn in the side rival. And now it's like, well, we gotta bring Sharp.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, love him.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Palmer Delaney back.

[Chris Ryan]

This is a real.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This team up.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Echoes, they never cease to surprise us. And it's always so hilariously side splittingly funny and I think so tender and moving and often like profound in a

[Mallory Rubin]

way that I am consistently shocked, you know, because Letterkenny is wonderful and has so much of all of the components that you're talking about, with the possible exception that it doesn't have nearly the heart that Shy has.

[Chris Ryan]

I've not seen Letterkenny.

[Mallory Rubin]

Letterkenny is phenomenal and is truly one of the funniest shows out there, in my opinion was just pound for pound a joke machine. And Shzi though, has so much of that stuff and so many repeated jokes. Exactly what you're talking about. Building out the community, that's a big thing in Letterkenny. But Shorzy has this forward moving plot. Letterkenny is week to week. You can watch it out of order. It wouldn't matter. None of it's cumulative. Shorzy is a narrative story that has at its root an absolute heartbreaking story. Every season, every season there's something that's going on that will break your heart positively negatively. Everybody is emotionally invested in a way that you are like, how do I have such access to these hockey players emotions. And then I think it's really like not to jump straight to the end of this whole season, but naturally that's lecture to the church women about why the hockey player, why they're wrong about hockey players. And the culture sure is incredible and was one of the times that I cried during the show.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh my God. So I would say, like, for folks who are still listening even after we've gotten into this conversation and are still like looking for a reason to watch. You could watch five and not know. You know, you could start on five. And I had been kind of egging Andy on to watch the first episode of Five because in many ways, I think the first episode of five is a perfect piece of television and is the. If I had to tell somebody, like, what does Shorzy do? Well, I'd be like, watch these three acts of television and tell me another show that's able to do the three things that this one does in one place. That being said, that episode. And so many of those scenes hit so much harder. If you know that Nat has basically been doing that same speech since season one.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

She has been like. Like making the same kind of appeal to the larger community about the importance that sports plays in keeping a sense of, like, you know, continuity and togetherness in a place alive. And that's the thing is, like, we talk about it as a comedy, as a drama, as a sports show. I think it's also, like, when I was watching it this last season, I was like, this is a show about utopia. Because these guys are always like, nobody has, like, a hard life in this show. Like, hard, hard. Like they are at strip clubs and hanging out at bars and getting chicken tendies.

[Mallory Rubin]

Season was so heavily focused on that. Sudbury has the strip club has reopened.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, finally.

[Mallory Rubin]

Cause there has never been a strip club in a previous season, I don't think. Or if it does, it's very fleeting.

[Chris Ryan]

And I don't think they have lots of nightclubs, it seems like, but not necessarily strip club.

[Mallory Rubin]

Strip club is so foregrounded and its importance is so astonishing. It's so hilarious in how often they are inside of and telling. Very sweet. And having very emotional moments inside. The strip club is really very funny and great.

[Chris Ryan]

And I've had, like, experiences like that in a strip club. No, not. No, I just mean in a town.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like, how much scores funny money do you have in your wallet right now?

[Chris Ryan]

Do you know what scores? Scores was, like, pretty big when I was in New York. Like, it was like, same.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's why. That's my strip club reference.

[Chris Ryan]

Never went to score.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't think it exists anymore.

[Chris Ryan]

I definitely like an Atlantic City place. And they played Joel Santana and I was like, this is pretty awesome.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. Were you there with Delaney or.

[Chris Ryan]

No, it was a bachelor party.

[Mallory Rubin]

Getting lappies.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Getting lappies. Getting lany, Loves a lappy, Loves cooking.

[Chris Ryan]

Anyway, I had. I had a point. But anyway, it's a. A depiction of Utopia.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think everything you said was so beautiful just now. I would like you to say it all at the end, but on this table, posed like, hit forward with a blanket around you and a laptop in front of you.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're so right, because it is. Inside of that first episode is everything

[Jason Mantzoukas]

that's great about the show.

[Mallory Rubin]

Every piece of what makes it is in microcosm, the show.

[Chris Ryan]

This episode is brought to you by Volkswagen. It can be hard to do your own thing when everyone else is following everyone else, but that's what some of the best films are about. An outcast striving to make their own way in the world. And this is your sign to be that outcast. From us, from vw, from the other outcasts out there. Take a chance, make the most of every day, and don't be afraid to veer off course every now and then, because if you don't do it now, then when? Learn [e-mail] from now on, spoilers for season five and spoilers pretty much for the entirety of Shore Z. Because we'll probably reference things this first season opens up with, and I don't really have a roadmap for how I want to talk about this. I thought we could just enjoy ourselves. The first episode. Episode of this season five opens with a group of these guys who, I guess, are living together. I didn't really process that until they've always been living together, but they are

[Jason Mantzoukas]

all living in a chorzy and Big Sexy's apartment.

[Chris Ryan]

Apartment. And are all simultaneously masturbating.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Whacking it.

[Chris Ryan]

Shorzy comes home and is like, do you guys want to go get beers? And everybody is not in. Everybody's in their rooms.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

And as he goes into each one of their rooms without knocking, each one of them is masturbating in their own unique way. In their own unique way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

What did this. What kind of insight did this give you into the male mindset that we're all poets, right? That we're all individual artists?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I thought this was possibly the best scene in television history.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's so funny and it's, like, so true.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, which part struck you as most true?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think it's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Who did you each relate to the most? Hitchcock on all fours.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think it is so true that guys.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Goody like my buddy.

[Chris Ryan]

Plus, he's trying to give you game right here. Let him cook.

[Mallory Rubin]

Guys are up to stuff that they think is what everybody else is doing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think guys are doing stuff. Guys figure stuff out as kids that they just maintain and think this is what everybody has figured out. This is how everybody does this and only when confronted with somebody interrupting and being like, what? Like when Shorzy walks in on Hitch and is like, what are you doing? And Hitch is on all fours with a, like, with a blanket over him. Like, he's like snuffleuphagus or something. I was like, what's happening? It was perfect. And the just the absolute easy, what do you think I'm doing?

[Chris Ryan]

And which one of them is watching Tryon Hall's Hitch.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because he has the whole speech about how you can't watch porn because then you can't do it in real life actually have sex. And then Dolo is in the shower also jerking off. And sh is like, do you have a laptop? And there he's like, like, spank bank.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So do is going off memory.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Great stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

Hitch is masturbating to try shopping mall tryout halls.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, it took me a number. I had to. I have closed captioning on all the time. But it took me a while to figure out he was saying try on halls.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I thought it was house at first. Try on halls.

[Mallory Rubin]

Because Hitch's accent is so nuts. Oh, boy. And so it's even funnier because you're like, Hitch, he. So that when I realized he was saying try on halls, I was like, this is incredible.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's the best.

[Chris Ryan]

So the guys go out and get beers after. This is Saturday.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We get beers.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like a eight minute scene that is like, to your point, about, like, the repetitive nature of the jokes and the jokes building and then they'll deflate for a second where you're like, you're doing this again. And then it'll be like you climax

[Jason Mantzoukas]

and then you deflate.

[Mallory Rubin]

But I always think about the refractory period for the jokes. Jokes can be minutes and sometimes episodes.

[Chris Ryan]

Will Ferrell falling through the floor in Austin Powers. And that joke goes on for so long that it gets so much more

[Mallory Rubin]

funny once it gets the Mr. Show Thimble sketch. Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

They then are like, let's go get beers. They go out and get beers and get a ride from One of the MILFs that I believe they slept with last season.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, Jill has wanted to sleep with Jersey. Jill has wanted to the Charlize Theron look alike. The doppelganger Jill, who has been like, you know, sh, you should teach the youth. And sh. You just come in the back. And then he's like, I'm going to leave. I'm going to go to Lara. So she's been trying to hook up with Chorzy including in this episode where she's like, I'm just deciding, like, trying

[Mallory Rubin]

to figure out if I'm going to go home, turn the heat on, or am I going to have someone there to keep me warm.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And then, of course, building toward the threesome plot, which was a stroke of

[Chris Ryan]

absolute, incredible, incredible, absolute genius, they go to one of the kids from the previous seasons. Jack is in a youth hockey, a national youth hockey team. Now, where is he playing? Like, I don't know, 90 minutes away somewhere. And they go. And you're like, this is great. This is so funny. These guys are drinking beers. These guys are hanging out these. Now it's going to be Shorzy and his boys at a youth hockey game. This is going to be hilarious.

[Mallory Rubin]

And it's really sweet because they're going to support one of the kids we met last season, which is a blueberry buddy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Lovely. A blueberry Buddy.

[Chris Ryan]

And they're told in the car that this kid has been having a little bit of trouble. But they don't. They don't really get into it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Right. He's not scoring goals, and he's a goal scorer.

[Chris Ryan]

Shorzy and the guy show up. They're in the hallway. They talk to the kids, coach for a second. They know who he is. There's some debate about, like, the right way to play hockey, et cetera. And then Jack comes out from the locker room room to see SH and you're like, this is cool. This is whatever. And they all are like, jack, Jack, Jack. And he gets pulled away by Shy. And as you can see as he's walking down the hall, Jack's crying.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

And he's just like.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's, like, uncontrollably overwhelmed emotionally and starts to cry.

[Chris Ryan]

And in almost any other iteration of a television show like this, SH turns that into a joke. And it becomes like a huge, like, I don't get you young kids and how you have emotions and, like your Gen Z millennial wokeness or whatever.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And instead, Shores, he's just like, let it out.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Puts his arm around.

[Chris Ryan]

He's like, you already started, so let's finish it. Like, get it out.

[Mallory Rubin]

And he's covering for him, and he

[Chris Ryan]

makes sure he can't see, and nobody can.

[Mallory Rubin]

Nobody can see it.

[Chris Ryan]

And he's just like, what's the problem? And he's like, you know, I want to go home. And he's like, none of your friends are at home. What the fuck do you want to go home for? And they have this long conversation, and it is so Beautiful. And so amazingly well done. And, you know, you just. Kiso is like, obviously a polymath talent. Like, I have no doubt that he can do all this different stuff. But Jason, I didn't expect, like, to get hit that hard in minute 11.

[Mallory Rubin]

This ability, this show's ability, his ability specifically. And he. It happens in Letterkenny, just not as frequently to turn from something that is just outright absurdly hilarious of, like, looking at each of the guys jerking off, comparing jerk off. Come over here and look at him jerk off. You got to see what this guy's building, building, building, heightening this joke, and then cutting directly from that into this incredibly emotionally available and sweet moment between him and Jack. That then is the spine of the rest of the show. You know, like Jack coming back after each quarter and Shorzy basically outlining, this is what you're gonna do. First things first, you're gonna. And then once again, in microcosm, he sets up how Jack is going to get himself out of his head, onto the ice and into the game. And that is exactly what happens for the rest of the season for them.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And this was the first thing you texted me about the season was, did you, like, how much did you cry when he put his. And I was so touched and so moved because it's the perfect shortcut to unlocking everything about the show and the characters. This is, like, kind of the case for why you shouldn't just start with season five or any. You should just start at the beginning, because it is, like 2 year old. He could have, like, mocked them and ribbed them. That is where we started with the Blueberry buddies, with the helicoptering and the toxic mask.

[Chris Ryan]

He's the guy who's, like, reffing youth hockey games and just talking about uncles, mothers for, like.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's how Shores, he started was just as an antagonist to the young people in Letter Cat.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Right? The Cory and Liam. Exactly. And so you have. You have that as, like, the backdrop, the building from that. And like, toward the end of last season, we moved into this really, like, emotionally resonant place with the karaoke and with Jack's pursuit of Maria and how that mapped onto Shorzy's relationship with Laura and the reading of the note, which I remember you guys talking about on the pod, how hard that hit you, but it's not just inside of their relationship and how that tells us that Shoresy, who we've seen cry in every episode of the show, probably he's always a free crier, even when he's a dick. We're on the Part 2 journey of the show, which is about him being a leader.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And a coach. So you have to actually believe that he could unite all of these people under his direction and that they would say, and the number of people we heard you should coach. And he had to decide, like, this is where I wanna put my love. And then you see what that means to him and why he's good at it so authentically. It was beautiful.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. I thought it was incredible. And there is. You watch him have to. At the end of the last season, he is forced to. And you watch him have to give up playing and all that that means to him. And this season, I think one of the things we learn is, is his reluctance to coach or what's a little bit holding him back. Is that for him, that's his brother.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And so new character for this season is Mo, who is Shorzy's brother. Shorzy's big brother. And that was. Those moments give you such insight into Shorzy when you realize, like, how much he's like. That's one of the moments that I cried is like when Shorzy's going around and saying, who are you? Who are you? In the locker room to everybody and who are you? And everybody's defining themselves. This is who I am. This is who I am. And they said, he says, who? And he says, I'm Sh's big brother. And I was like, uh, oh, you know, like. So it's like that to me also was like, oh, put Sh inside of a family dynamic that I didn't really know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think that's another great example of how the show has always had a lot of heart. But the emotional heft has expanded because earlier insights, which were very brief in prior seasons into SH's history is like, he was adopted and what did that mean? Like, learning that he was called, like, Waffle as a kid and stuff like that. It was all like. It was joke based. And there's still a lot of humor here. But this is the first time that we've understood that he can't, like, talk about what his brother meant to him without breaking. Yeah. And I thought there was easier for

[Chris Ryan]

him to coach a kid through their emotions than it is for him to deal with his own, you know, and that. That kind of comes up. And again in the second episode. And I'll just finish the first episode dissection. We're not going to go through every episode at this level. I mean, we could if we wanted

[Mallory Rubin]

to, but every episode I just thought

[Chris Ryan]

that the third act of this episode, which is essentially like, he's kind of talked Jack into going back out and playing. And this show does hockey really well, and they do. They photograph sports really well. And I think that it's the most legible, kind of like execution of. Of a game on TV right now when you're watching it. But what they choose to do is shoresy every period of a game that Jack is playing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Gives Jack a lesson, an idea to follow, like, first a simple goal. So if you can't, if you feel like you're not having a good time and your game isn't, is not firing, what you got to do is you got to fucking kill some guys.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

So the first bail goes and he comes back and he's like, yeah, you killed some guys. And now what are you going to do? You're going to score a goal. And he goes out and he scores a goal. And then he's like, what are you going to do in the third period? You're going to make sure they always remember who you are. Never let them forget who you are. And the fact that they do that in those, like, three mini scenes within one scene without ever showing Jack playing, without ever showing Shore Z going back to the crowd, it's just like they meet up in the hallway behind the ice, then they go their separate ways and they do it three times. Is their joke style applied to drama, which is awesome.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah, I love it, man. Yeah, I love that. And it's so rewarding because that stuff, all of those component pieces then become the structure for them versus the EU teams.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes, exactly.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, and you hear when Jack and the rest of the Blueberry buddies are on the sidelines of that Jason,

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Carter and Caleb, when they're all there

[Mallory Rubin]

watching the game, you know, Jack repeats almost like a mantra. Jack has internalized Shorzy's teaching, which Shorzy has now told us was his brother's teaching, that his brother had a way of simplifying things for him. So that it's not. Chorzy is good at this. It is. Mo is good at this. And Shorzy is just telling us. Mo, there's an episode of. I don't think either of you watch it, but there's an incredible episode of Frieren Beyond Journeys.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm about to start this. Lindbergh was a great show.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is the greatest show on tv, full stop.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow.

[Mallory Rubin]

It is.

[Chris Ryan]

Frieren's like, kill some guys.

[Mallory Rubin]

Kill some guys. Well, no, there's this incredible episode where names and beers. Yeah, Get Some puffers, they go. Frieren travels with two other people. Two young people. She's like an immortal elf. And she travels with two humans. And they're kind of of the same age. And they have like a kind of will they, won't they Dynamic. And Fearne and Stark and they are gonna go on a date. And Stark asks Frieren, where should I take Fearne on this date? And Frieren walks him to a marketplace. You should take her to look at this. You should take her to look at that, this and that. And at the end of this whole sequence, he says, wow, you really know Fearne well. And she's like, I don't. These are all the things that Heiter, her father figure, told me about Fearne.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Love that.

[Mallory Rubin]

And it's this wonderful moment where you realize Frieren is an incredible maternal figure to these young people, but that for her, she has such trouble learning about people really, that she's taken what Heiter told her and has just expanded on it. And it's this beautiful moment in what is unquestionably the most beautiful show visually and thematically.

[Chris Ryan]

What's this on?

[Mallory Rubin]

It's on. Oh, it's on. I'm watching it on Crunchyroll.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, they have it on Netflix.

[Mallory Rubin]

The first season's on Netflix. At least. It's all over the place.

[Chris Ryan]

Like how I asked you what channel it was on.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like I was 100 years old. It's on channel 56. Just tune it in.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like you've got rabbit.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Turn the little dial. Yeah, just move the antenna. Okay. Sequence also more so. That's kind of the. The emotional core. But like we get little things set up that are really crucial. Like the dive, you know. Oh, you can't hit anybody because other players gonna take a dive. And you don't want to hurt your team because you get a penalty. Penalty. So this setup for the big speech we're going to hear Shorzy make at bro dude in the second episode. And then the backdrop of what we hear from Tepo.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh my God. Wild character.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Just incredible stuff. But also there's the conversation with Cunningham, the coach of that team, who is like, as we learn, a three time coach of the year. So sort of the poster boy for what a coach should be.

[Chris Ryan]

And his more new school is like wearing a cool suit.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Exactly. But he's also like talking about the kids. You got to treat them like dogs.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's not how Shorzy is focusing on this at all. And that discussion they have about how would you Rather win or lose honorably or dishonorably, which ends up being this thing that almost like sh. Has absorbed via osmosis. And it is this thing that comes back at the finale in this big. Where he. Where he's like, I had an epiphany. Like, I have clarity about what matters to me.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, what's so clear is that. And has always been clear is. Is that Shorzy plays dirty, you know, and that proudly plays dirty.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, the episode almost begins with, like, this dream that he's having of just destroying an entire team of guys by, like, hitting him in the ankles with his hockey stick, just slashing.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's just, like, a absolute beast on the ice. And so this idea of, like, honor is introduced this season, which is, like, incredible. And for him to try and figure out, like, how to. Is it to lose honorably or to win dishonorably is a great.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought that this was a season that was almost way more about, like, an idea than it was about a story. Like, the story is good. It's somewhat reminiscent of earlier seasons. It's about a traveling EU All Star team, European Union All Star team, which is, you know, kind of funny. Like, in the world, kind of.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Political chessboard. I. It's funny to watch, like, the evil EU coming. You're like, I can think of some other guys who are evil. And then. And the sort of vanishing identity of Canadian and North American hockey culture and how it needs to be reestablished in order to defend their turf. Because these eu. This EU team is just burning down the building everywhere they go.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I think this. It's exactly what you're saying about. It's. It's more about an idea and almost something not even philosophical, but, like, existential. Soul deep. Right? Because this I loved structurally and I think the way that the show adapts season over season, real continuity, but slight tweaks that make it feel much bigger and broader and wider and more sweeping. Like we're going wider and deeper at the same time. Think about where we were previously in the show's run. The idea of this team, the Sudbury Blueberry Bulldogs, folding inside of the existent no show was the crisis. And now Shorcy walks in and Nat's

[Mallory Rubin]

like, the no show is gone.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's just gone. So we think this season is going to be about watching him coach the Bulldogs. The team doesn't exist because the league doesn't exist.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's kind of cool because, like, for as much as I'm like, oh, it's this utopia and like, these guys don't have financial problems and they just sort of jerk off and go get beers and stuff like that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Needs must.

[Chris Ryan]

It's fascinating when the outside world shows, like, how they feel about this scenario because, like, there's a basketball team that basically moves into the arena overnight and immediately like, redo the locker room and is like, they do that.

[Mallory Rubin]

And not only that, but they seem to be successful.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

What we're being told in the story of the show is that senior whale shit. Hockey is unsustainable. And so all these teams in their greater league have folded, except for the Bulldogs and one other team, I can't remember. And so there is no longer. There's not enough interest. It's too expensive to have the ice up. So they lose their ice time. All of these things that befall them to then put them on a stage which is. Oh, you're playing worldwide players. It's not even like another team from, you know, Quebec. You're playing like EU professional players. But then to take it out of their thing. My favorite move of this whole season was to put the game outside.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's.

[Mallory Rubin]

Chills made me feel. I was like, this is. Is incredible.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

When you first see the. And you see the boards of the outdoor covered in blood.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

From the psycho church league.

[Chris Ryan]

But that's another example of like, you know, the. The women from the church who host the. The final match.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And their take on hockey and hockey players is like, you can never trust them. This always happens. Like when we had the beer league, church league. That was. Guys, they were psychos. And you would have to have the cops here every time. And it's sort of a little bit more about, like, how hockey is being viewed by the modern Canadian person and the, you know, like in a changing world.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, and that's what the whole dynamic, the comparison between the EU and the North American play is that the Europeans played a much more graceful game. Like Shorzy's monologue on Bro Dude Boy. I mean, like, better monologues of the Shorzy on Bro dude talking about North American hockey versus Canadian hockey. Or Billy Bob Thornton in Landman talking about the View.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, it's really hard to call it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. Talking about sticking his dick in an omelet.

[Mallory Rubin]

That was awesome. Oh, my God. There you go.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, and now we. If we do get a like. Well, I guess that wouldn't work because Hulu does Shorzy. But if Shorzy were somehow brought into the Paramount universe, wouldn't that be amazing?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We could put Angela in Game of Thrones. Well, why.

[Chris Ryan]

Why can't Ainsley become the Bulldog's physical therapist?

[Mallory Rubin]

I love this. Yeah. You know, absolutely.

[Chris Ryan]

I would watch.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I would watch. But there is, like, there's a way in which. So there's this whole thing, but that he's talking about the North American style of play is dying. It's dead. And the EU's coming over here and they're beating us at our own game, basically. And there is, like, no such thing. Sense of pride. And that's what it's all about. And I wanna be clear. This is my camera. I don't like sports. Now, I know that I'm not allowed to say that here on a ringer

[Chris Ryan]

show, but it seems like you really wanted to get that off your chest and do it direct to camera.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't follow sports. I'm not a sporto. But I am obsessed with this. You know, like, I love this show. And so, like, I'm saying that for the people who are like. Like, I've heard about this show, but I don't. I don't. I don't like hockey. I don't like sports. I'm. That's not for me. I could very easily see people thinking it's not for them, but it is very much for you.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think many things. Many sports TV shows or movies that I think would deeply satisfy people who have no interest in the sport and

[Jason Mantzoukas]

who care who are assassin.

[Mallory Rubin]

The only one that I would say that fits the bill is Friday Night Lights.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think works for everybody.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, for many of the same

[Chris Ryan]

reasons, even football fans, like, will be like. But the football in Friday Night Lights is, like, preposterous.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I've got some notes on scheme.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And preponderance of Hail Marys that Sarah sing, for sure.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No question.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, so we have the EU plot line that goes through the second season. We could talk about Teppo Maki.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What a character figure.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great character.

[Chris Ryan]

Like the overrated Shorzy basically puts together a team of the no Show All Stars.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. It's an enemies to lovers story. These used to be the rivals, and they are united in a common goal, which is the restoration of that pride and identity. That's why the outdoor rink is so perfect. It's like the child, the reason that you loved that you fell in love with the thing in the first place. Like, that core germ of it and your relationship to it. Like, do it there.

[Mallory Rubin]

And it felt so. It feels so much more local and real and street level to be like, we're at this outdoor rink. Everybody's in. Everybody looks cold. Everything looks like it's brutal.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They're shoveling up the blood slush.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, my God, dude, I love it.

[Chris Ryan]

It's so good. But the montage, essentially. And there's maybe a montage or two too many this season. But, like, the montage of them putting together the no Show All Stars and the fucking Freezer twins on Zoom Killed Me was so funny. Like, the freezer twins bit. I don't know what the limit is of, like, how long I could watch a freezer twin scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But it might be like two hours.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, I loved that. One of them is just absent for part of, like a whole scene. It's just taking a pee. Taking a pee. I mean, like. And that's the thing. The show is.

[Chris Ryan]

What's he like, I got my cousin's wedding.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And that's in like, July.

[Mallory Rubin]

July.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And then like, don't worry, it's gonna be sooner. And he's like, how soon? Survivor's about to start. Like, he thinks it might be tonight. That's incredible.

[Mallory Rubin]

The freezers. And then later when they're talking to Mercedes is like, I fucked the Fridge Twins. Yeah. She thinks they're called the Fridge Boys or whatever.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Poor Michaels. He's like, I was wondering why they were here.

[Chris Ryan]

So we get the Freezer Twins. We get Shur. We get the Italian guy, Sylvester.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sly Silvestri.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Good.

[Mallory Rubin]

The repetition of put a hockey stick in my hand and I become a totally different person. And that at least four different people say that exact same line. Absolutely. In regards to. To just stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

Leave. Silvestri is the guy from the 98. Get Bedard's fucking number off your back.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah, that guy.

[Chris Ryan]

And then my favorite of. Of all of them is Delaney, who is the cokehead stripper addict that is also like a dynamite goal scorer.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's right.

[Chris Ryan]

Loves to score and needs to go through basically a trial of the seven to get himself back on the team after he shows up late one time. Right. I. Or he's just getting. He's just getting lappies.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's just. They think he's not. He's not biased.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's on the strip club side and

[Chris Ryan]

team building and Delaney's getting lappies. And he's like, these lappies are incredible.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Shows up later with the two strippers because he hadn't been a day. So it's bringing them to the locker room. Then the phone is ringing. So good.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's so good. It's so good because it really is. Again, it's so easy to, I think, get access to a young person's sports story, you know, like, young people and what it means to be striving for this thing. It's such a magic trick to make you care about guys in their 40s and 50s and their attempts to win a sports game that means so clearly so much to them, but that you understand contextually, like, is preposterous in the life of people this age.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, I love when they're talking about Cuz Shirzi is learning. He's in the tracksuit. Also a great recurring bit in the Slight Changes.

[Chris Ryan]

Different blues, Robin's egg.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is periwinkle.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, are we gonna be able to get these guys to unite toward this common goal and do this thing? And he's like, they'd walk. And then you see immediately that for every single one of them, that's true. They're quitting their jobs. Schnur is under a sink doing a plumbing repair. Like, yeah, Palmer's chopping wood. Sly is at the restaurant. They're just like, I need to know literally nothing other than that this is happening and I need to be a part of it. It. Gorgeous gourd.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Also there, the gyms are back. Possibly my favorite subtle prison guards. Yes. My favorite subtle return joke to something from a prior season was after Sly says something's not supposed to, and Shirzi's trying to figure out who in the locker room said it. And then one of the gyms reveals that it was Sly. And then Goody's like, gyms are tattlers.

[Chris Ryan]

Jims are tattlers.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They are.

[Chris Ryan]

They've done that. This episode is brought to you by Brooks. Running connects us to a Russian of energy that flows through our world. The cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us. The intersection of interests that inspires a run crew, the support that gets you over the finish line. Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there. Learn [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Volkswagen. It can be hard to do your own thing when everyone else is following everyone else. But that's what some of the best films are about. An outcast striving to make their own way in the world. And this is your sign to be that outcast. From us, from vw, from the other outcasts out there. Take a chance. Make the most of every day, and don't be afraid to veer off course every now and then. Because if you don't do it now, then when. Learn [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Netflix. Peaky Blinders is, hands down one of the most iconic series of all time. And the gangsters are back. In Netflix's new film, Peaky Blinders, the immortal man, Tommy Shelby, played by the Academy Award winning Cillian Murphy, of course, must face his own demons and choose whether to confront his legacy or burn it to the ground. I watched the movie and let me tell you, it's just fascinating to watch Killian on the other side of the Oppenheimer journey that he's been on, becoming one of our great actors. I mean, he already was one of our great actors, but to become one of the major movie stars in Hollywood, this is perhaps his signature role, his iconic role. He brings like an even more haunted, weathered quality to it. And he's paired off with Barry Keoghan, who's just extraordinary in this and brings this youthful vigor and energy that the story greatly benefits from. Peaky Blinders, the Immortal man is in select theaters March 6 and on Netflix March 20. Rated R for who's your favorite character?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, do you guys have a power ranking? Who.

[Chris Ryan]

Who do you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, obviously the show doesn't function without Shzy, but like, but from.

[Mallory Rubin]

From everybody else. So, like, I have, like, a real profound love for Hitch.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Me too.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And. And one of. And maybe the moment that I cried the most or the hardest, no question that got me the deepest was when Shorzy makes Hitch captain.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I was a wreck.

[Mallory Rubin]

And Hitch starts to try to talk, but starts to cry. And they all jump on him immediately jump on him and hug him. And I was like, like moved by that moment because there is an element of the show that is definitely about these men who are truly unable to understand their emotions in almost every way. None of them have successful relationships except for now. In these later two seasons, SH sort of, you know, is getting there. This season especially. Yes. But it took all of last trials and tribulations of last year for SH to get to a relationship, you know, And I think feel like watching these men grapple with, like, just emotionality is moving, you know, incredibly fun. And sports allows them to exercise or exorcise those feelings.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I love that. And then the payoff of when they're all going around the who are you? Another quiet genius touch. By the way, the whiteboard behind them. Everybody else, which we saw at the end of the panel. I gotta chill. Cause it's like you know, all the episodes where we've seen the lineup read. I do miss Sanguinette, of course.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like, you're go is Sanger and fucking Hamnet. Like, where is Sang?

[Mallory Rubin]

Like, how I wonder if he's on another show.

[Chris Ryan]

That's what I was curious.

[Mallory Rubin]

I meant to look it up before this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Referencing him and calling him. I like that we hear about him. Just. I mean, obviously it's to answer. Address the fact that he's not there, but it's like keeping him in the mix so he could come back.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But then when everyone's doing the who are you?

[Chris Ryan]

Like Jesse Bloom industry or something, you

[Jason Mantzoukas]

know, I would like Jesse Bloom to return to industry. Hitchhike's answer is captain of the ship.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Captain of the ship. It's the most important aspect of his identity that honor.

[Chris Ryan]

I think my two favorite characters that are non Shorzy department would probably be Zeke.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Great.

[Chris Ryan]

Just because Zeke and shi do the same thing every year, which is for five episodes, they say the worst possible things that you could think of to another person. And then there's like, one incredible moment of tenderness in the last episode, and you're just like, I'm fucking sold.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The dancing this up this season really great. And then goody.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, I was gonna say Jory.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, Jory Jordan. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would. I would watch the sports report every.

[Mallory Rubin]

I wish they would make, like, content. If I could just explain it to

[Chris Ryan]

be in a way that he wouldn't just start walking away in the middle of the conversation. I would be like, jory should be a podcast on the Ring. And it's just like, Jory interviewing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Like concanipple. You know,

[Mallory Rubin]

that's the kind of thing that I think. And I don't even know who or what that was, but, like, I think because I was watching it this time and I was like, oh, it would be funny if they put out just material that was five minute.

[Chris Ryan]

Jory talking about Adam Brody and Kristen Bell.

[Mallory Rubin]

She made it towards the junk guy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Really got a kick out of the vlogs into sucking hogs. That was a good one.

[Mallory Rubin]

Good one.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Turn to phrase. I love Goody. So what are some.

[Chris Ryan]

What are some of the, like, kind of tertiary plot lines from the season that you found interesting? Like, there's a little bit of. I'll throw some out. So there's Shorzy's kind of burgeoning media career that is acting as spokesperson for the Canadian way of hockey, but also, like, you know, Anik obviously wants him to be on Bro. Dude, there's this weird. I wouldn't say weird, but there's like, this Gretzky episode where it's like, a lot of it is like, Shorzy's about to start crying because Gretzky and he are gonna do a TV episode together. And then it's just like a FaceTime call.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Is there anyone you guys would say to, like, you could shut an elevator door on my nuts, and it would be fine as shores. He said to Gretzky, anyone you feel that way.

[Mallory Rubin]

And I love.

[Chris Ryan]

And because it's that Tom Hardy. If Tom Hardy was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I believe you.

[Chris Ryan]

Bane.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And the baby.

[Mallory Rubin]

But somehow, on Taboo, only one of them.

[Chris Ryan]

Your nuts, can make it out of the elevator shaft.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Ah.

[Mallory Rubin]

See? Produce your nuts.

[Chris Ryan]

You know I'd do it.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'd do it. Yeah. No, you told us you would. We believe you. We didn't put this on you. You brought this to the table. My guy.

[Chris Ryan]

What about you? Proverbial nuts.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Proverbial boy.

[Chris Ryan]

And it can't be fictional. It has to be a real person.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

A real person?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

It can't be like, oh, Jon Snow, I love you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. I was going to say Ghost the

[Chris Ryan]

direwolf, you know, it has to be

[Jason Mantzoukas]

a real person back in the mix. The only people I really care about are you guys.

[Mallory Rubin]

And we would never do that. Never.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think it would be RIP Anthony Bourdain.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, geez. Well, you got me there.

[Mallory Rubin]

I would absolutely let Bourdain close an elevator door on my nuts. Happily. Happily. So thanks for coming on the watch. We'll be back Monday.

[Chris Ryan]

So we have the Gretzky in episode two.

[Mallory Rubin]

What I loved about the Gretzky thing is it clearly is so meaningful to him. And I feel like the show is setting you up for this kind of like it's a rug pull. Oh. At the very last minute, Gretzky's not coming, and Annika and the producer are pissed.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

And they're, like, really being nasty about Gretzky. It's a bullshit move. It's ambitious for him to cancel. They're pissed off. And Shorzy just goes into the most beautiful.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. He's like, can you believe he even thought about who was.

[Mallory Rubin]

That he was going to be here is the best moment of my life. And his monologue then is so good. And then not just that moment where he. I think, you know what? I think. I think, you know, what is it? The mute Agretsky win the game. He just starts going on all this stuff is how meaningful and important Gretzky Is to him.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Then he takes this tiny transactional moment that he has almost on TV with Gretzky, and then he gets to FaceTime with Gretzky for, I don't know, half a minute or something. You see him have a little bit of a chat with Gretzky, and then he dines out on that positively.

[Chris Ryan]

For the entire season.

[Mallory Rubin]

For the whole season. He uses it to whip.

[Chris Ryan]

Cause he's like, Gretzky wants to have. He wants us to show him.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like Gretzky said, are you guys going to show. He's watching.

[Chris Ryan]

Give me something to watch this year.

[Mallory Rubin]

Are you guys going to give me something to watch this year?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And he also. That's when he says the thing about, like, you know, the hockey. Like the hockey community. We've got each other's backs. We stick up for each other. Did you think we were just saying that?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I love that moment and that line and that idea. And it's basically. That's a trampoline that allows us to get the NAT speech at the end about, like, hockey culture.

[Chris Ryan]

It's worth noting people listening to this probably already know this, but strangely enough, out of this TV show has emerged this burgeoning live event vertical of shorzy where they are essentially going around North America playing inspired ex NHL stars. We had a chance to go see them in la.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

We went to their hockey game.

[Chris Ryan]

Their fucking lives.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wonderful.

[Chris Ryan]

First of all, there was definitely like 6 to 10,000 people. There

[Mallory Rubin]

were so many people there. It was so funny to watch a hockey game where short, where everybody there is there for Shoresy and they're playing the LA Kings Alumni League. And I felt like it was really funny because the LA Kings were constantly being booed in their home house because everybody there was there for the Shores et, which was. Must have been a very surreal experience.

[Chris Ryan]

And there was like an element of just like also watching those. These guys actually play hockey. Or just like an American TV show does not let Matt Saracen play against the Denver Broncos.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. Like all these guys have hockey experience. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But not even. Even if you do or don't. It's like the Shores, he taking a puck to the face would derail this television series.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

For a year. You know what I mean? Like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like they would just write it into the plot.

[Chris Ryan]

Probably would.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Good. He misses another tooth. Great.

[Chris Ryan]

I just bring it up because I think that as this show has gone on, it has started to take on this, like, second life or like another outside of the show. It is now like a kind of lifestyle thing that is Pretty interesting. And I almost felt like this season reflected that. It was like the sort of ideals of hockey can live beyond just hockey itself.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, and what a cool way to like, build your audience, hopefully, is not to just like, you know, like, a lot of people go out there. Shows want you to go out there and like, promote somehow and do this or that. But like, for their. For the. For their promotion to just be an exhibition hockey game, which is the thing. The show's not like the actors being like, here's how we make. Let me tell you how we make the show. It is like, oh, how would you like to be inside the show? Do you want to be inside of a Shorzy game? Here we are.

[Chris Ryan]

The problem with Andor they didn't depose any leaders in real life, you know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Something to think about.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Something to think about. What were some other secondary problems?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think one of the best and alluded to earlier is the Jill propositioning Shorzy and Laura being. Because it plays out over a couple of episodes. And it really is this interesting because we almost, like I said, we almost never see relationships addressed. All the dynamics and relationships that we see in the show are between our teammates. Yes. There aren't the mates who slept with

[Chris Ryan]

these women that these guys were also into.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There's these guys you have to pick between.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly. And it's. None of them have.

[Chris Ryan]

I remember when the gyms were like. I looked into her eyes all night. We spoke, you know, Next thing I knew, sun was up.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And then Brit picked Jim and he's like, we should do something really amicable and lovely now. And she's like, let's go to the strip club.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Which is on the other side of this bar. Really funny. But so not only to get into for last season, for Shorzy to really have to prove himself to Laura to win her because she knows, as does everybody, hockey players can't be trusted in relationships.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sluts.

[Mallory Rubin]

They're sluts.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You don't date sluts. You just take them down.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's a great show.

[Chris Ryan]

I love seeing you just to the safety off, you know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's a great show. I'm just quoting canon.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is the text of our time. I agree.

[Chris Ryan]

Zeke just being like, what do you want? Slut? Every time.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, my God.

[Chris Ryan]

As he walks in.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So you get a relationship. You build to a relationship at the end of last season when he runs that marathon, when he gets that when the letter is ready. And then this season as they're negotiating, you know, like the idea that you Would tell me in season five of Shorzy like he's mo like he's negotiating moving in with his girlfriend and like, like negotiating the dynamics of his relationship with her teenage son.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

I would be like, oh, that sounds like not Shorzy. And it is absolutely Shorzy in the best way. And this thing where Jill propositions Laura and Shorzi and the way they talk it out and the way it gets talked out and this idea of like, oh, you talk to your friends about me? How do you talk to your friends about me? Yeah, all of that stuff was. Cause you talked about it earlier. It is. This is a coming of age story in many ways for middle aged men, not just for the kids. The kids are just when when you gave us the season of kids it was like, well here's what it is in reality. But this is unquestionably what we're doing for these grown ass men.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's I, I guess, you know, not to be like can Shores he do this? But not like I do wonder whether or not a season of this show is functional without like a central hockey plot. Like of these guys they have against all odds are going to try this. Obviously like the emotional highs of this show are way higher when they are going for it in some way like that. But you could tell me this show's going to go for another 13 seasons like letter and it winds up just being a slice of life of these guys banging around Sudbury without hockey.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think it would be harder only because and I think Letterkenny really works because you can episode to episode do anything.

[Chris Ryan]

Right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Shorzy, you really are tied to some forward moving narrative that is almost always inside of a sports story.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

And how can like, I don't know, does Shorzy work if next season is about Shorzy? For the most part, Laura and her son at home, they're all like negotiating, becoming a nuclear family. And it's really about Shorzy acclimating to life at Bro dude as a commentator.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, this is what I was kind of nervous about in season four and then I was like, oh no, they're gonna do bad newspapers. You know what I mean? Like this is amazing. What do you think? Do you think they have to always have, do they, do you think they have to keep coming up with eu all star teams to play or something or start the no show anything?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think they're saying that's like the genius of it because I, I, my heart stopped when I was like I caught up on the first three seasons before season four. And when we got to the this is the end of Shoresy Part 1, I was like panicked. What does that mean? Where are we going from here? And then I remember the first trailer, if memory serves, the first trailer for season four was just tubing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And I was like, what?

[Mallory Rubin]

What is that?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What is happening? But also that's when I was like,

[Chris Ryan]

is this going to be Letterkenny? Is this going to be like these kind of guys having funny conversations, the

[Jason Mantzoukas]

off season and weird Sudbury and like building toward the choice of like all season mounts toward weird Sudbury just to decide not to go because the Blueberry buddies are more important and that relationship is more substantial. Ultimately, hockey was still the backdrop for all of that. So I don't know that it, especially after a season like this, which is a declaration of a soul bone deep connection to the proposition of hockey. I think that it has to be stitched into the fabric of the. The show. What exactly does that look like and how do they keep to like keep evolving?

[Chris Ryan]

I think they're going to keep coming up with ways to have Hitched Dolo Goody playing hockey. Like they've, they've done it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Those guys have to be there. Like J. Sanguinette, as we said, is not on the show anymore. Jj, Frankie, JJ is like not on the show anymore. Characters have come in and out of the universe of the show. I don't, I can't imagine shy without Shzy Goody, Hitch and Dolo. That is difficult for me to.

[Chris Ryan]

Or Nat Z. I mean that's just question.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think that's important as well because I could see a world in which I will say there is a show that works, that is a couple of the guys, Nat and Zig and the younger generation where the guys are coaching a teen team.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know that the sports story maybe isn't for the adults, it's for the younger generation generation and the adults are plugged into it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, that maybe gets back to what you were just saying, like workshopping the. Okay, could it be the. The new nuclear family with Laura and her son? Like maybe it's. It does his hockey team, the kids hockey team become a part of the story at some point? What's interesting is like I have also found the Shorzy Lara Moore, this is the summer I close on Lara Moore thing to be very genuinely surprising in its longevity and how gripping I found it because initially my relationship to the core dynamics of the show is that the otp, the true love story of the show to me is Sh and Nat.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Without Question.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, interesting.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't even mean that romantic. I don't mean. It's like, these are two people. That is the deepest love.

[Mallory Rubin]

They have a fully shared point of view. They are both relentlessly pursuing greatness in Hawking.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. And they can be the most unapologetic and unvarnished version of themselves in front of each other. And there have been so many moments across the five seasons where they're sitting next to each other, they can't look at each other, they're turned, and one of them just gently puts a hand on the other one's back or something where you're like, wait, is this about to change? And then you realize, I don't. It's not like I need it to change.

[Chris Ryan]

They'll play with that relationship, too, because that moment where you think that he's going to ask Nat to be the coach with him, I was like, holy shit.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's like, no, You've never been on the ice. Never stepped on the ice.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I've skated my whole life.

[Chris Ryan]

So the season ends like, they have this incredible. And we can talk a little bit about the final episode, but they have this incredible moment where they're playing against the EU All Stars. This outdoor rink outside of a church. The entire town of Sudbury has come out. It's violent, bloody.

[Mallory Rubin]

They've been told. I think one of the best things is they've been told in no uncertain terms, no fighting. No fighting by the church, the church that owns the rink. If there's fighting, we're gonna call the cops and we're gonna shut it down. And the minute the whistle is blown to start the game, they drop the gloves and sticks and a gigantic melee breaks out.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's a really close game that they wind up losing because the Euros dive. But the larger moral victory is one. And we still don't really have a no show, though, right? Like, I mean, so the hockey league itself has collapsed. These guys are all presumably going back to their job. So, like, yeah, I mean, going forward, I have no doubt that they'll be able to come up with something really, really entertaining for two hours. But absolutely no question, you know, and I honestly, no matter, like, whatever machine they need to build to make it so that it's like, we need to do this. We need a charity match to save this community center or whatever, because I don't care.

[Mallory Rubin]

The mechanics of the sports storyline really just help us move forward and care about stuff, but really what we care about is this show is just a masterpiece of character, barely Development, you know what I mean? Like, so many of these characters are inching forward in terms of their emotional development, but nonetheless, Arrested Development moving somewhere. You know, the scenes where repeatedly they're getting their house in order. Getting their house in order. Boys, you know, is so funny. And all of their shitty relationships. And Hitch and his girlfriend thinking they have the best relationship because when Hitch fucked the hockey mom, she got back at him by fucking him. And now they're good. Great stuff. It's the best. And so the idea that can keep playing with these characters, I think, is very, like, this is a show that is, to me, always refillable because the characters are just so perfect and, you know, like, yes, it's all going to come down to a game at some point. Sure. But I'm not here for the games.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean. And they're also making it six episodes a season, almost twice a year at this point. You know what I mean? So it's. It's like, it's pretty. I won't. I don't think we'll. I don't think we'll get season six this season. Year, maybe.

[Mallory Rubin]

I doubt it.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think we will, but I doubt it. I didn't get a chance to talk to you about Heated Rivalry, really.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, let's fucking go.

[Chris Ryan]

And we don't have to go nuts on it. But he. Rivalry shares.

[Mallory Rubin]

Jacob Tierney is like an essential part of Letterkenny.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, both on camera and off, and has been like, a part of that world forever.

[Chris Ryan]

And the sort of emergence of tyranny coming out. I am making Heated Rivalry, which is not only a successful adaptation of a wildly beloved piece of fiction, but to make it in such a different way than the way the Kiso shows have been made in the past, which is, like, incredibly static, incredibly flat. Everything is about, like, jokes building verbally rather than through psych gags or anything like that is just. It was pretty shocking. That's the only thing that was shocking about Heat of Rivalry. I know what you're thinking. I mean, just what did you think of Heat of Rivalry as a series? And do you ever. Do you see any connective tissue between the two things?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think that they are quite different shows. Obviously. I love them both.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought he was getting into exotic positions. Absolutely.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

About understanding who you are and embracing that in full and surrounding yourself with other people who embrace that. I thought Heat of Rivalry was wonderful. I mean, I loved the whole season. I thought it really evolved, you know, over the course of the first couple episodes. You're like, this is sexy. This is fun. Third episode, of course, we get the. Are we spoiling things? I can speak in generalities. We get, you know, an episode centered around different characters other than the main characters. And it was very shocking, but in an incredibly energizing way where you're like, I don't really totally know what I'm watching, but I'm very invested in this. Episode four, I think, is when you realize you're watching just. And episode three, but you're back with Ilia and Shane in episode four, and you're like, we're watching prestige tv. This is just. I thought episode five was one of the best episodes of TV of the year. And I thought that the Shane Ilia conversation, where Ilia is speaking in Russian and we're just watching Shane's face, was one of the best TV scenes of the year. And in the finale, I was sobbing like a fucking baby the entire time. I loved it.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think the thing that's clear about Letterkenny and Shzy is, and I think this is Jared Kiso's whole thing is I am interested in excavating small town life and life, the life that are the people. It used to be called Letterkenny problems, and it was all about the problems of the people of Letterkenny. Small town problems and how you settle them, usually with fist fights, you know, and that's Letterkenny. If there's fighting in sh, there's a million times more fighting in Letterkenny because Wayne, Jared Kiso's character, is the toughest guy in Letterkenny. And so whenever there's a new tough guy who he has to come and fight Wayne or they have to go and fight some guy who did something. So the number of montage, 7 minute long fight scenes in Letterkenny is enormous. Incredible. It's absolutely crazy. And so to me, heated rivalry is taking all of those small town things and blowing them up, you know, and putting them on a much larger stage. And much like everything gets bigger, everything becomes. It's not. It's. But still concerning itself with small character things.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that the lesson from the two shows ultimately is like, it's just much more interesting to watch TV about characters that aren't easily pinned down.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, like, you could watch a version of SH and this kind of goes back to the first episode of the season five where you're like, the easy thing to do would have SH bust Jack's balls, make fun of him, like, and then be like, you know, like, I'll coach you because you don't understand. There's so many, like, logical. Instead, he shows this incredibly tender side. There are so many moments in hetero rival where you're like, I got it. I know where this is going. I know what this guy is like. I know what that guy is like. And they show you a completely different side. And that goes all the way down to, like, Ilya's the girl who lives with Ilia. You know what I mean? Like, you know, or like, like, yeah, like, it's just. There's so many different wrinkles to Shane's

[Jason Mantzoukas]

conversation with his mother at the end.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like, you expect.

[Chris Ryan]

When the parents find out. When Shane's parents find out, you're like, oh, shit, this is gonna be it. And they're like, huh?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Both of them do an incredible job servicing discovery and surprise.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sure.

[Mallory Rubin]

In ways that you think you know what kind of a story you're inside of, and you're like, oh, that. I'm genuinely surprised by that. And isn't that especially. Especially for people like us who spend all of our time inside of television, to be able to be surprised by a thing is very rare. Or to be like, oh, that did not happen.

[Chris Ryan]

And for a show to not make the surprise its entire raison d', etre, to be like, you thought it was gonna fucking be, you idiot. Dumbass. There's more than one silo. You know, the thing is, it's not spoiler, bro.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's not a rug pull that I think that's such a good point. It's never interested in it being a rug pull or calling attention to it. It's that people are making choices that you're like, oh, of course. That is a choice that I just. That I don't think narrative television would always make in this way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And of course, the relationship that each story has to hockey, even though they are both in some way a hockey show, is radically different. Shane and Ilya are the two best players of their generation.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is not whale shit hockey. This is Montreal and Boston, the top picks in the draft, and they've won Stanley Cups and they've won MVP and

[Chris Ryan]

generationally, like, on the others, like, you know, like Sid and. Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes, exactly. And so then it's like, okay, well, if the rapper that defines my life and my public Persona and my earnings and my endorsement deals, if I didn't feel like I could be myself inside of that, what would that mean? Their relationship to the sport is different from each other, of course, but certainly very different from all of our Blueberry Bullets dogs. So I think we get. We just get way less hockey in heated rivalry. Like it doesn't function as a sports show quite in the same way that sh does. Like obviously we have some scenes on the ice and some scenes in the locker room, but much more to establish like the position that they each hold their stature inside of the game and then how that influences.

[Mallory Rubin]

They hold a lot of position.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, they sure do.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean you. When you were saying pinned down earlier. I've been waiting. But here we go at last.

[Chris Ryan]

They also share wolf parade, which they.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This I felt bad about because I spoiled this.

[Chris Ryan]

It's okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I thought you had finished the season and I texted you. I was like, wolf parade back.

[Chris Ryan]

And you're like, haven't gotten it out one.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What the fuck? I felt really bad.

[Chris Ryan]

They both drop wolf parade and I. I couldn't help but wonder, Carrie Bradshaw style, if I love when you do that. It was Jared Key so saying tip of the tip of the cat Jake.

[Mallory Rubin]

And just like that.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And just like that, a wolf needle

[Chris Ryan]

drop jumped right way up.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Was that your favorite needle drop of the season? Obviously needed rivalry.

[Chris Ryan]

Heel rivalry.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The Van Morrison.

[Mallory Rubin]

Van Morrison got me.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, man.

[Chris Ryan]

There's nothing better in the world than the amount of Armand Van Helden that they just like. The amount of UK garage and house songs that they're just like, yeah, this is just. We're doing it.

[Mallory Rubin]

One of the things that I'm curious what you said because you like you binged all three seasons before for is like, I think one of the visual things that you have to get used to. And it happened in Letterkenny and with Shorzy is for a show that is remarkably short in length per episode. An enormous amount of. Almost every episode is just a music montage that is either in this season, the strip club, it's the hockey games, it's the fist fights. It is long, long.

[Chris Ryan]

The celebration of them winning. The no show, I think is like a full episode.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right?

[Chris Ryan]

It's like of a montage basically and like full songs.

[Mallory Rubin]

You listen to the whole song play out.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

In Letterkenny, there are oftentimes fights which are incredibly choreographed and like so satisfying to watch. But you're like, I think I've been watching this fight for four full minutes of this 20 minute episode.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought I'd noticed it mostly on this season where I was like, there are a couple of schorzy episodes that it's like there's 12 minutes of acting and the rest of it is like a montage with like a house anthem playing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That is of course a difference between the two shows too. There are a number of wonderful performances in Chorzy but just the ethos, the energy is so different where you know you're watching just Kiso do something. I think kind of God tier and astonishing. A lot of the people in a scene in Chorsy are like people who played hockey well enough to be in Chorzy and are learning how to find that comedic rhythm. And across the the seasons it's really advanced. Like I watch he at rivalry and I'm like, Connor Story is going to be one of the most famous people alive. You know, Hudson Williams is becoming sensation for a reason, like so that they're very different. But I do love this kind of shared thread across them and I, you know, I just. What a time to be on the rink.

[Chris Ryan]

I, I love the, the thread that

[Mallory Rubin]

we share and I'm so happy.

[Chris Ryan]

I, I don't know, I mean like I, I could keep going but like I feel like that's a good place to end. We will hopefully find something new in between now and then.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, if we don't, we're fools.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Jason Mansukas, thank you so much for coming by.

[Mallory Rubin]

Chris. An absolute delight. Mal.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Just the best thrill of my life to be here with you.

[Chris Ryan]

Thanks to Kai. Thanks to Kai. Andy and I will be back on Monday. I think it's a pretty full dance card for Monday because we have some Paramount, Warner Brothers, Netflix, post game stuff. We have dtfc.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay. Incredible. I'm all in on this show. Steve Conrad is the greatest. Yes, Steve Conrad, my favorite patriot Perpetual Grace Ltd. Ultra City Smiths and was

[Chris Ryan]

the original showrunner on Seven Kingdoms.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes, he was. Oh, that's right. He wrote the first adaptation of the Dunkin Egg book and I've only seen one episode of DTF St. Louis, but I think it's incredible. I'm so stoked for it. This is the other thing. Sorry, I wanna, I'm gonna say this because I said it on this show. I told you about Shorzy. You slept on it. The show that I feel like everybody is sleeping on right now, is it the fairies is Dark Winds.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, fuck. Dude, can I, can I tell you something?

[Mallory Rubin]

If I don't understand what is going on, you guys are gonna fucking lose it.

[Chris Ryan]

I know. And at the last time this happened, it was Mr. Imperial between people were just like, what's your fucking problem?

[Mallory Rubin]

It's good.

[Chris Ryan]

Dark Winds is just the show that I've been like, I, I just can't abide being 30 hours behind on this, you know, or whatever it is.

[Mallory Rubin]

I understand.

[Chris Ryan]

But I saw that they were doing a 70s LA episode coming up, and I was like, damn, dude.

[Mallory Rubin]

This season has Titus Welliver in it. FYI, Bosch is. Oh, get it involved. But regardless, each of these seasons has been phenomenal.

[Chris Ryan]

So first season, you would start with the first incredible.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just start with. And honestly, you kind of don't need to, like, each of them is a contained, singular story. Each one is one case. Okay. Or a couple of interrelated cases. It's not like one big. I mean, there is some larger.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But there's character continuity across the.

[Mallory Rubin]

There is absolutely character continuity. But. But each. Each. They're based on books, and each one is basically one case that falls into history.

[Chris Ryan]

Have you ever started a show like, midway through.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would die, I would die.

[Chris Ryan]

The idea of you being like, I'll just jump into darkness.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't think you should, but I cannot recommend it enough. Okay. As not just like, not just phenomenal, but consistently phenomenal.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Commercial Announcer]

You.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you have a recommendation for things that you don't talk about on House of AR that you'd love to off your chest?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think this is a great time to invest in the Baltimore Orioles.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, boy.

[Chris Ryan]

Christ.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm just. I'm only doing this because I'm looking at my shores. Do you feel I made sure this

[Jason Mantzoukas]

is the year they're going to win the World Series?

[Chris Ryan]

All right. I'd like to have you come on maybe for a spring training episode with me and Andy. We can talk about the futility of cheering for baseball teams outside of Los Angeles. Dodgers I will not be ready for. So Andy and I are going to do DTF St. Louis. We'll probably hit paradise. I think the Top Chef episode is up on Peacock.

[Mallory Rubin]

Apparently.

[Chris Ryan]

Apparently the first episode of the season.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You guys talking some Survivor?

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Basically, all I think about right now is survivor.

[Mallory Rubin]

Really?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Season 50? Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay. That's all I think. But that's how I am with alone.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's the thing, you know, where they

[Chris Ryan]

get dropped in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, but not naked.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, it's not.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Naked and afraid.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's naked and afraid. This is like, real deal. Like, you are alone. There's no camera crew. You are the camera crew. You don't. And people. And the last person there wins either half a million dollars or a million dollars, and they're out there alone for months.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, my God.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's very upsetting watching people at first figure out how to survive. What's gonna be my food source? Where am I gonna get water from? I need to build a shelter. Where should that be? And then once enough people have gotten that far and some people have dropped out, you're watching people lose their minds because they are alone for weeks and weeks and weeks at a time. It's incredible.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think you could do it? The isolation?

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, oh, yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. You definitely could do that part.

[Mallory Rubin]

That part I got covered.

[Chris Ryan]

You just couldn't build a fire inside.

[Mallory Rubin]

I would have a lot of trouble with the, like, actual, like, foraging and getting food.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Do they let you bring your glasses? You could start a fire with those.

[Mallory Rubin]

You saw that on the items. So one of the. I could start a fire. I could get fires going.

[Chris Ryan]

10 packs of cigarettes and then 10 packs of bars.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You were a Camel guy, right?

[Chris Ryan]

I was, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I felt so proud of myself. Yesterday in this very office, our colleague Jack Wilson asked, was Chris an American spirits guy? And I. And I said, camel.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's like, are you sure?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And I said, this is a friendship test. And I feel sure.

[Chris Ryan]

It was Winston's very, you know, just a guy came into a bar I was working at, and he was like, do you sell cigarettes? And we said, no. And he was like, I work for Winston. Next time somebody asks you that, will you give them a free complimentary pack? And we said, Absolutely. Mr. Winston sounds like a madman. All those cigarettes and smoke them. And then I became addicted to cigarettes and then moved into Camels because I was dating a girl who smoked Camels.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

All of this tracks for me.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

All of it. Wow.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And then I never stopped. And then I stopped. Now I still have nicotine problems.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Were you ever a smoker?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I literally never had a cigarette in my life. But you know what? I've loved a cigar. I've loved a cigar over the years. A cigar over the years.

[Chris Ryan]

I think if you started and some other things that you could, it would be an incredible wrinkle for you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't know if the lungs can do it, man.

[Mallory Rubin]

It would be really funny if you just became not just a smoker, but

[Chris Ryan]

like an in studio smoker and like, Dennis Leary style.

[Mallory Rubin]

People knew that, like, oh, if you're gonna guest on House of R, like, Al's gonna smoke throughout. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, what if I had, like, a pipe? I used to like to smoke pipe.

[Mallory Rubin]

I forgot about pipe.

[Chris Ryan]

Who are the people in Hollywood who have indoor smoking rights?

[Mallory Rubin]

Sean, Pennsylvania.

[Chris Ryan]

DiCaprio. Vapes everywhere.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right, sure. Sean Penn, I think, can smoke literally,

[Chris Ryan]

like, Sean Penn was lit up at the Globe, right?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And that's it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Barack Obama, he could.

[Chris Ryan]

But even Barack would step outside.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I guess he would.

[Chris Ryan]

There's all those shots of him like.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're right, you're right, you're right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What would my brand be?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, like, of cigarettes. Indian Creek. Like Kate from Sicario.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, shit.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sicario on your mouth.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not like a. Not like a Virginia Slim skinny cigarette.

[Chris Ryan]

That would be interesting.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think Johnny Depp gets to smoke those gross, like, cloves. Yeah. Those gross cigarettes he smokes inside, though. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Have you ever been on set with somebody who smoked cigarettes in your face like. Like while on set?

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, wow. Probably. I'm trying to think who. Johnny. I did do something with Johnny Depp and he was smoking constantly and it was disgusting. But I'm trying to think of anybody who was like. Like. Like in a way that was, like, interruptive to the process.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, it's not even interruptive as much as it's just such a flex.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's like you find it aspirational. I mean, this is your great.

[Chris Ryan]

I've smoked indoors. It ruins the indoors.

[Mallory Rubin]

Do you have an age where you're like, at a. When I turn 70, I'm going to start smoking all the time because.

[Chris Ryan]

And I'll tell you what, it's not going to be smoking that I get into.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You know what I mean?

[Mallory Rubin]

Sure. You're going black tar. Black tart. Our heroin.

[Chris Ryan]

Like injecting.

[Mallory Rubin]

Straight, straight to the vein, baby.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What's the age? No comment.

[Mallory Rubin]

As you get older, let's see how

[Chris Ryan]

the world works out. You know what I mean? If it feels like imminent doom is there, well, we, like. I might just start being on ketamine while I'm on podcast.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm just gonna stick with edibles, I think. But you do you, man.

[Chris Ryan]

Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you to Kai. Thank you to Kai. See you guys on Monday. Oh, we'll also have some industry mailbag questions.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Talk to you soon.