‘Landman’ is Back! Plus, ‘Pluribus’ Episode 3 and ‘Poker Face’ Searches for a New Home

Summary

The Watch – November 17, 2025

Episode: ‘Landman’ is Back! Plus, ‘Pluribus’ Episode 3 and ‘Poker Face’ Searches for a New Home
Hosts: Andy Greenwald and Chris Ryan

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Episode Overview

Andy and Chris return to Los Angeles, fresh off a stint in London, to celebrate Chris’ birthday and break down three main TV topics:

1. The cancellation and potential resurrection of Rian Johnson’s Poker Face
2. The season two premiere of Taylor Sheridan’s Landman
3. Episode 3 of Vince Gilligan’s Pluribus
   The episode is filled with their characteristic wit, asides about food and video games, and meta-commentary on how TV is made and marketed.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Poker Face Leaves Peacock – What Next?

[08:12 – 19:39]

• Cancellation and Future Prospects:
  • Poker Face (Peacock, created by Rian Johnson, starring Natasha Lyonne) is canceled; Johnson reportedly wants Peter Dinklage to take the lead if the show is revived elsewhere, with a “Doctor Who”–style rotating lead.
  • This shift would mean a new actor plays the main detective “Charlie” every two seasons.

“I’m very skeptical that they will [find a new home], although I’ve often been very, very wrong about things like this.” — Andy (10:36)

• Ownership & Rights:

  • Poker Face is made by MRC (independent studio), so rights can transfer easily if another streamer is interested.

• Procedural TV in the Streaming Age:

  • Despite hype, the show couldn’t maintain a procedural pace (“crime of the week”) due to busy creators and industry delays.
  • Second season pivoted from procedural formats to “celeb of the week.”

“The show absolutely did not hit its mark…as a dependable week-to-week procedural because there were two or three years between seasons.” — Andy (12:17)

• Comparison to Rian Johnson and Edgar Wright’s Careers:
  • The hosts examine Johnson’s constant straddling of innovation and tradition, echoing similar struggles in Wright’s jump from indie to big franchise films.
  • Discuss the flexibility and traps of creators like Johnson working within the Hollywood/IP system.

“Do you think that he most wants to be an innovator or a traditionalist? … The things that he does are often more radical than what had come before.” — Andy (13:37)

• Will Netflix Pick Up Poker Face?
  • Chris is cautiously optimistic, noting Johnson’s good relationship with Netflix but acknowledges several uncertainties surrounding streaming strategy and library titles.

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2. Video Games, Zelda, and the Vagaries of Adaptation

[21:36 – 27:14]

• Video Game Nostalgia:
  • Brief deviation into the nostalgia of 90s and early 00s video games (Zelda, Shinobi, Grand Theft Auto).
  • Chris jokes about his “video game achievements” and Andy’s cameo in GTA III.

“When I go to Japan, guys are like, ‘We heard about you… No one has brought the ethos of Joe Shinogli.’” — Chris (22:44)

• Live-Action Zelda Adaptation:
  • Hosts mock the seriousness with which studios adapt games, noting the thin narratives and stylistic signifiers in adaptations like Mario and the upcoming Zelda.

“The Zelda thing is so deep video game in a way that I don’t understand how they’re going to translate it…” — Andy (26:10)

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3. Landman Season Two Premiere

[28:20 – 47:39]

• Cultural/Regional Analysis:
  • The show dives deep into West Texas oil country culture, with Andy and Chris discussing its embrace—and parody—of a certain brand of American masculinity and gender roles.

“There is something comforting about a show that really privileges the idea of a world…in which a man can just lecture a woman on anything at any time.” — Andy (28:49)

• Season Recap and New Leadership:

  • Season picks up after Jon Hamm’s Monty dies; Demi Moore’s Cammie takes charge of the company.
  • Chris and Andy joke about Taylor Sheridan’s casting logic (noting Sam Elliott, only 9 years older than Billy Bob Thornton, plays his father) and the show’s disregard for age realism.

• Cammie’s Rise and the Show’s View on Women:

  • Demi Moore’s expanded role is spotlighted as a possible “slow burn” introduction akin to The Wire’s Bunny Colvin.

“Is this the greatest slow planting of a major character since Bunny Colvin in season two of The Wire?” — Andy (32:42)

• Style, Dialogue, and Gender Bizarre:
  • The show features long, digressive set-piece scenes (“the dinner scene”—over 11 minutes, [38:03 – 44:02]) where masculinity and gender norms are hammered home and “explained.”
  • The hosts marvel at the creative freedom Sheridan exercises, creating scenes that defy conventional structure and taste.

“You could hate it… but admire the freedom, the creative freedom. The fact that he’s just like… You thought this was going to be a scene where father and son recognize that, and instead it’s about a woman having her menstrual cycle and making pasta for 11 minutes.” — Chris (44:07)

• Critical Takes and Accolades:
  • Both Andy and Chris single out Ally Larder’s performance as a stand-out amid questionable material.
  • Notable comic moments, like a college admissions monologue about eugenics, are discussed.

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4. Pluribus Episode 3

[47:49 – 55:41]

• More Meditative/Experimental Installment:
  • The episode is described as a “chamber piece,” taking time to dwell on central characters and their relationships.
  • The opening flashback (Carol and Helen in Norway) is called “lost-ish backfilling”—part world-building, part character study.

“The only criticism I’ve heard about this show that has rung in any way legitimate…was a friend of mine…said the phoniest moment of the show was when the Norwegian bellhop accepted the tip.” — Andy (48:08)

• Vince Gilligan’s Storytelling:
  • The show juggles intimate human drama with a sci-fi, world-building premise.
  • The tension between the individual and collective action is analyzed, with Carol’s consumerist outbursts contrasting with the collectivized, post-apocalyptic world.

“Her obstinance is kind of like a virus to them, and they can’t solve for it. And her power is much more than…odds.” — Andy (53:53)

• Gilligan’s “X-Files” DNA and Legacy:
  • Chris and Andy see echoes of The X-Files: a battle between standalone creativity and overarching plot.
  • They note that Pluribus moves comfortably between big-picture world-building and micro character moments.

“The more relevant comp for Vince Gilligan’s career is the X Files. This is an episode where you started to feel…the unsolvable dilemma.” — Andy (51:46)

• Supporting Crew Shout-out:
  • The week’s episode was written and directed by Gordon Smith, a Gilligan collaborator from previous Albuquerque projects.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Poker Face’s Rotating Lead:

“He would like Peter Dinklage to take over the role of Charlie…each person playing Charlie, a la Doctor Who, would do two years and step away.” — Chris (09:58)

Sheridan’s TV Auteurism:

“One of my favorite things about the Taylor Sheridan experience is that, on some level, even he knows he doesn’t need all of the scenes that he writes…” — Andy (38:59)

“The content of the scenes is so, so unhinged that it can’t be…That is the spark of humanity—that is the ghost in the machine.” — Andy (47:28)

On Pluribus’s Meditative Energy:

“Perhaps like…this is a little bit more of a sketchbook for ideas about humanity and about life than it is always going to be a…like a little clock that Vince Gilligan has made a la Breaking Bad.” — Chris (49:46)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 08:12 – Poker Face news, explanation of show’s fate at Peacock
• 13:45 – Rian Johnson’s place in TV/film, compared to Edgar Wright
• 21:36 – Video game nostalgia, Zelda adaptation digression
• 28:20 – Landman Season 2 overview; West Texas culture, Demi Moore’s increased presence
• 38:03 – “The Dinner Scene” and gender/pasta/generational riffs
• 47:49 – Pluribus Episode 3 discussion
• 51:46 – The X-Files comparison for Vince Gilligan

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Tone & Language

• Conversational, irreverent, pop-culture savvy: Andy and Chris riff with each other, self-deprecate, and enjoy tangents almost as much as main topics.
• Deep TV Knowledge: Both hosts consistently tie their discussion of new television to TV history, behind-the-scenes industry context, and auteur theory.
• Critical but affectionately engaged: Even as they poke fun at Sheridan’s writing or the unwieldy ambition of Poker Face, their fascination with TV’s oddities and risks is clear.

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Summary

Andy and Chris guide listeners through the shifting terrain of prestige and mainstream TV—with extra love for creator-driven experiments, comedic misfires, and the complex fate of shows in the streaming era. Their takes on Poker Face, Landman, and Pluribus circle back to key questions of artistic intent, the machinery of TV production, and whether unlikable (or unhinged) content can still be artistically vital. For fans and the TV-curious alike, this episode is an engaging blend of critical insight, industry gossip, and affectionate banter.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Pain Sports to have to clear the room.

[B]

Stand up and walk now.

[A]

Hello and welcome to the Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] and joining me in the studio in Karen Bass's Los Angeles, it's Andy Greenwald.

[B]

Feels great. Feels great to be back in a rainy city.

[A]

Brought to you by an atmospheric river. Brought to you by Kaia McMullen and Kai Grady. We are back in LA where we do some of our best work.

[B]

We do some of our work.

[A]

We do some of our work.

[B]

Definitely.

[A]

It's Young Hobnob and the Jammy Dodger. We've returned from England.

[B]

This just come to you?

[A]

I guess it's pretty good. I like. I like Hobnobs.

[B]

I love Hobnobs. How do you feel about chocolate and orange flavors?

[A]

Yeah. Is that. Isn't that Jaffa Cakes? Jaffa Cakes, yeah. I'm not a big guy, big time biscuit person, but we got Paddington straight from Peru, straight from London. Cr. I don't know.

[B]

Straight from birth.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Happy birthday, King. Today's Chris's birthday. He's being modest.

[A]

I think I've potted a lot on my birthday.

[B]

Do you think?

[A]

Does your birthday always go a day later? Right. Every year.

[B]

Right. Except for leap year when it skips another day.

[A]

I feel like I've potted a lot in my birthday historically, but I pot a lot, so that would. That would figure, you know.

[B]

Do you remember some of your greatest birthday pods?

[A]

No, I'll have to have. That'll be a new project.

[B]

Do you remember any of your pods? Because I Don't.

[A]

Andy was very nice. He got me this incredible T shirt. It says Philadelphia basketball, and it is a image of a meniscus of Joel Embiid's meniscus. We're gonna hope that means that those days are behind him. And he has a regenerative.

[B]

It's fun because when I got that T shirt, we were just in the glory days of Vijay Edgecombe and Joe looks pretty good. And then between the time this arrived and me giving it to you on your birthday, his other knee has now gone a bit wonky.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, but shout out, by the way, to the artist Heavyslime on Instagram. On Instagra, Eric Kenny, who I discovered because he designed a bespoke dark hearts T shirt for the production of Task.

[A]

Did he really?

[B]

He did, he did. His stuff's really sick. I really recommend it. Heavyslime.

[A]

One thing about you, you don't gatekeep.

[B]

So. Okay, so do you wanna talk about that? So, first of all, Chris looks great on his birthday. It's these shades of eagle's green that I really appreciate.

[A]

Yeah. For Nakoby.

[B]

And the sweater you got from a lovely Japanese boutique store I did by Borough Market in London called Jackman, a place that I have shopped. Where I have shopped.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I was so excited to direct you there. And it worked out.

[A]

Yeah. And I dapped you up. I said, that was a great recommendation, dude.

[B]

And so what you pointed out, though, was that while I don't gatekeep, I insist on columbusing. Yes. Which is a very specific, very specific thing.

[A]

So your example, most of our text message threads are you being like, holy shit, have you heard this? And me screenshotting the six week ago thing of me being like, you really like this? I love it. You know? And you're like, look, it's geese.

[B]

No, no. In my defense on the topic of.

[A]

Geese, also, geese is now, I claim.

[B]

No, like Sports guy dropping geese. Refs.

[A]

I saw that. So, yeah, they're everywhere, you know.

[B]

Would you care to comment on that?

[A]

I think that's great that Bill's getting back into contemporary music.

[B]

My thing about geese wasn't that I was discovering them. It was more that I understood the assignment with this record that I needed to focus in an old school way that I couldn't just like in between my daughters being like, I really like Cat's Eye and the Marias, I could like, drop in and out of it. I needed to be exactly where I was on Friday, which was, you can throw Trinidad on.

[A]

On the School run.

[B]

No, I was trying to. I did actually spend some time wondering how I would set it up.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Do you know what I mean? Considering that. What's the refrain? There's a bomb in my car. Yeah. Which was a plot point in USA's short lived television show Briar Patch. My children saw the trailer for that show five or six years ago and one of my daughters says that that traumatized her.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes. Which is why I declined a second season. Ultimately.

[A]

It's really big of you.

[B]

Family first. Anyway, I was the perfect time to really get into that geese record was coming off of six weeks of work in London, three hours of sleep and a. You know, some. Some smoked chalk stream trout at the lounge at Heathrow. Just like I am in a little bubble now. And I'm going to go listen to the bards of Brooklyn. Friends.

[A]

Did you watch much on the way on the flight home? I always love to get your updates where you're like, I did. I did. You watch Materialists? That's right, you were texting.

[B]

Which camera's fine. Guys, I'd like to speak on behalf of six months ago and say woof.

[A]

I kind of enjoyed it with the.

[B]

Charisma she brought to Madame Web comes. Yeah, I watched that. But then I also did. Cause you know I'm always about the pod. So I was watching Pluribus. I was catching up with Down Cemetery Road. Yeah, I was putting in numbers.

[A]

We have a good show for you today. I think it's a great show but a lot of that depends on how we. How we interact with each other rather than what we talk about, you know.

[B]

Oh, isn't that always the case?

[A]

Are talking about the season premiere of the second season of Landman today.

[B]

Happy birthday.

[A]

Thanks.

[B]

You're fucking welcome.

[A]

And we're also talking about the third episode of Pluribus Grenade. Spoilers for both of those episodes. But first, some news. Not personal news. I feel pretty good.

[B]

You seem great.

[A]

I don't feel a day older than 46 to be honest.

[B]

Is that because. Oh no, it's the opposite. You are actually deep into your 48th year because of. You're still on Greenwich meantime.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Like I am.

[A]

That's right. I have to say I. I don't feel deterred by my last two weeks in London in terms of like the drinking.

[B]

Oh, you're a champion.

[A]

Honestly, the smoking. If I'm, you know, I hope my health insurance isn't listening.

[B]

I'm sure they're only just scanning it. They probably watch it on YouTube, I think.

[A]

I think I still have my. Like, I still. I have an electric arm, you know what I mean? The ball still comes out. Nobody knows where it's going. Kind of like golf, you know, like.

[B]

No, it's not. It's not just that. You can just play pickup and get back into it. Do you know what I mean? Like, you're the Brandon Graham of this some thought you retired six months ago and you were like, you know what? I would like to go back to Live Fire. Like, I want in.

[A]

I went back on Thirsty Thursdays.

[B]

Yeah, I. My time in the beautiful United Kingdom was rich and rewarding and I'm going back very soon. But I learned a lot about myself and a lot about my limits. And you and your lovely wife showed up and you showed me that it's not.

[A]

There are no limits.

[B]

There are no limits.

[A]

It's no limit.

[B]

Hold on. You are Bradley Cooper in the movie about limits. You are unbelievable. You guys are able to just dig deep and become young again. When I was like, ah, I will move my body with the rhythm and alacrity of a 21 year old me in Manhattan.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I was like, what is this pain radiating from my hips into my liver that just makes me feel sad.

[A]

Or is it the other way around? It's liver into hips. What do we want to do today? Well, we have a couple of news items that we wanted to catch up on. The most interesting one, I think for conversational purposes, is the Poker Face news. Now, this was a show that we discussed fairly in depth in the first season, the Natasha Leone mystery, an homage to Columbo that was on Peacock. It came from Rian Johnson. He was very hands on in the first season. Is my understanding in the second season perhaps a little less so?

[B]

What I mean, my understanding of it is like with many of these contemporary TV project, I don't have any bombs. I just think that you could probably count on one hand the number of high profile creators who have said they would take a step back in subsequent seasons, who have taken a step back. It's just not in their DNA. And nor is it necessarily what studios and streamers want. I mean, an example for that was Ben Stiller saying he was happy to have launched Rocketship Severance and would be less involved in the second season. And I think the second season makes it clear that he was not less involved.

[A]

Right. Well, he directed a bunch of the episodes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And now he's saying he's not directing any of the third season.

[B]

We'll See, I mean, I'm not. Again, I'm not saying that like to be judgy, like he's the creative, one of the key creative forces behind that show. So I think that something like Poker Face, when you have a Rian Johnson, you have a Natasha Leone who are proven creators and headliners.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That that is never going to be a. They're never going to be minority owners.

[A]

Okay. So that this is all changing because Poker Face is done at Peacock, I guess. Would you call it canceled? Yeah, I'd call it canceled. And Natasha Leona stepping away from the role of Charlie. She's done. Rian Johnson would like to get this show on another streamer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he would like Peter Dinklage to take over the role of Charlie. And now in his pitch to the world and obviously to the networks, he's saying each person playing Charlie, a la Doctor who, I guess would then good poll by you would basically do two years and step away. And so it would be a limited time commitment, but a long running show or forever running show, I would imagine that they are going to continue with the show, the crime and then the person comes into the situation and solves it. Much like Columbo. What did you think of this news? And do you think, do you think he's got a shot here at selling this and selling this idea?

[B]

So the one, the reason why it's possible is not just because of the big names involved in it, but because it is. The show is made by mrc, which is an independent studio. So it was sold to Peacock and Peacock said, no, thank you. And MRC retains the rights to the show and they could sell it somewhere else. So it's not like they had to extract it from Universal. So it is plausible that they could sell it somewhere else. I'm very skeptical that they will, although I've often been very, very wrong about things like this. I think the odds of the show continuing are really wrapped up in the strange shifting narrative around the show itself.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

When the show was announced and got a splashy, I think immediate two season pickup from Peacock, there was a bidding war, I believe. So all of the press around it was Rian Johnson expressing his, I think quite sincere love for old fashioned crime of the week procedural television. And he was like, I've got a spin on it. As it turned out he did. He had a great. That pilot episode is incredible on the page. And in real life there are highlight.

[A]

Episodes I would point to across the two season run, though I did not care for the second season as much.

[B]

As the first season, I agree with that. We got on mics on this podcast and we were like, this is incredibly smart. This is not what we had been seeing a lot of, of high profile creators coming to TV to do vanity projects or more indulgent projects. This is high profile creators saying, we're going to make a TV show. And we, we're. And. And that also seemed to fit in with the mandate that we believed would be a successful one for Peacock, which maybe they believe too, because now they've just bought Taylor Sheridan to provide television shows for them. Sure. Anyway, in reality of how contemporary television is made, that ended up being kind of a pipe dream. But because of the starry nature of it, because of the heavy involvement of very busy creators like Rian Johnson, like Natasha Lyonne, the show absolutely did not hit its mark, to my mind, as a dependable week to week procedural because there were two or three years between seasons.

[A]

Yeah, you could chalk some of that up to strikes. Right?

[B]

For sure. But even so, the tempo of the show was clearly never going to be what it had been sold as. And then the second season really leaned into the fact that it wasn't necessarily crime of the week, it was more celeb of the week, like all the guest stars and their Rolodexes who would show up making some charming appearances and charming whatever. So that, that was more the rubber meeting the road of how TV is actually made these days. And I feel like it speaks to kind of the crux of Rian Johnson that maybe is also relevant for the Knives out conversation and maybe his entire career, which is. Do you think that he most wants to be an innovator or a traditionalist? Because he keeps taking on these assignments saying, whether it was Star wars or Agatha Christie whodunit or procedural tv, saying, my brain works a certain way and I've cracked it. I can do this within the system. And then the things that he does are often more radical than what had come before. And whether you like it or you dislike it, it doesn't always. It doesn't set a template for continued success within that.

[A]

It's interesting you should say that. So I was thinking about him in relationship to Edgar Wright, who had Running man come out this past week, and Powell. I have seen it and I enjoyed it, but it did not do, I think, as well as people hoped it would do, or it got edged up.

[B]

By the magic movie.

[A]

Now you see me, now you don't. Three. Yeah. And those two guys are. I don't know if they're how close they are in age, but they are both like huge fanatics of cinema. And I think both have and held a lot of promise coming up in fairly independent circles, you know, obviously right in England with the Cornetto trilogy. And then Rian Johnson initially with Brick, you know, and kind of like this sort of really like signature film that came, like, I think people were, and Looper too, which showed like a really competent ability to move from genre to genre and have some wildly creative swings within those kinds of walls of whatever, like the traditional sort of storytelling you'd expect from those kinds of movies.

[B]

I don't want to interrupt you, but I think it's a great, great pairing because they did both seem like the princes who were potentially promised of kids, grown up kids who loved the action figures but were willing to take them out of their boxes and play with them.

[A]

And they've had mixed success when they've stepped into those franchises. So obviously Wright was involved with the original version of Ant man and was one of Marvel's big, like, oh, we, we, we with anybody. Like, we will go out and get the best filmmaker for this job and let them cook psych, you know. And then now, I don't know actually what happened behind the scenes with Ant man or what. Like eventually was like sort of agreed upon narrative of like, why Wright stepped away from the project. Obviously. Rian Johnson made one of the best Star wars films, I think, in my opinion, but wound up getting thrown into some of the dumbest culture war stuff that we've had in the 21st century and was not, did not come back. Even at one point there was going to be another trilogy that he was.

[B]

Going to do that felt kind of like a golden parachute, right?

[A]

Like there was like the Benioff and Weiss time, there was the Rian Johnson time that didn't work out. And now he's kind of settled into this knives out thing. Although I don't always find it to be the most comfortable cloak for him to wear because I feel like every time one of these movies comes out, he has a somewhat public disagreement with Netflix about the amount that it's going to be in theaters. And I'm like, well, it is not, folks. You know, I mean, like, I, maybe somebody somewhere said like, hey, and we're also going to give this a run. And then it finally gets up to Ted Sarandos and he's like, no, that's not possible. You know, I don't know what their careers are like if they just keep making their movies, you know, and they, they keep, they stay out of those franchises. But Rian Johnson seems to have a very, very good eye for scaling his stuff.

[B]

That's well said. Yeah.

[A]

And so there is a, a world in which Knives out is just a one off Agatha Christie tribute. But I think it very quickly after the first one became a. I would make these for the rest of my career, for as long as Daniel Craig wants to do them. And there's like a huge potential for these. And there's a lot of similarities between Knives out and Poker Face in terms of, like, obviously actors really want to be in these. They're happy to do small parts. This new one has like Jeremy Renner and Chris. Kerry Washington and Glenn Close and Josh o'. Connor and the list goes on. Exactly. So it's an interesting way to, like, watching those two guys navigate their careers, navigate their successes and failures is really fascinating.

[B]

And navigate the contemporary moment. Which is to say that, like, their careers probably would have looked a lot different in the 70s and 80s when the options available to them would be different. Or maybe they are because of their love of a certain type of pop culture and their willingness to play with pastiche. They work only in this era. Right. Where you can. I mean, one, one of the reasons that the Knives out movies attracts the cast isn't just because they've been successful. It's not just because they've been on Netflix. It's not just because, and I'm speaking hypothetically, Ryan might be a really nice guy who runs a good process. Like, people might like to work with him. All of that is respectable. I think that part of the reason might also be that they all get the wink, wink, brief. Like they know what they're signing up for because they understand it's so well communicated that this is a flavor that has been sampled in the past.

[A]

Yes, yes. Now, my question about, about Poker Face really is, do you think the public has voted or is there a new iteration of this show that feels completely different from the Natasha Leone one?

[B]

I.

[A]

I have no idea because I don't really know. It's very hard for me to tell. Like, is Poker Face, well, at its height, what was Poker Face's like, impact?

[B]

Well, that's the other thing. How successful would Natasha Leon's Poker Face have been at Netflix? Which is really just a question to your point of scale. Like, that does seem like that type of show showing up every two years, but building a library within service.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Feels like something that could work there. Like when you see just stuff drop on there and suddenly you know, takes over, becomes number one. Like the suits phenomenon. I mean, that would make more sense. We don't know how it performed for Peacock, and we don't know how it performs as a library title for Peacock, and we also don't know what their aims were. So it all feels a little bit opaque, but it, I, I. He hasn't said anything about that. He does speak about the Netflix frustrations, but I wonder if he had any frustrations about the, I don't know about the Peacock side. Do you think you put it to me. Do you think that he will find a home for the Peter Dinklage poker face and the show will continue?

[A]

I'm going to say yes. Yeah. Because I do think actually, like, I mean, he's obviously just had a very successful relationship with Netflix, and while they may banter back and forth about theatrical release, it just seems like if they could make the budgets work, if they.

[B]

Can make the numbers work, that it would be the most stable place because they want to keep him happy. He wants to be happy. He wants the show to be seen.

[A]

And presumably Netflix could buy the Poker Face library and just do it now. There's like multiple seasons of this.

[B]

I think that's the only way they would do it.

[A]

So good, so good, so good.

[B]

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[A]

Cause I always find something amazing. Just so many good brands. I get an extra 5% off with my Nordstrom credit card Total queen treatment.

[B]

Join the Nordy Club at Nordstrom Rack to unlock our best deals. Big gifts, big perks. That's why you rack.

[A]

Hello, friends.

[B]

Guess who?

[A]

That's right, it is I, the replacer. Once again, I've been called on so.

[B]

You can play the new Call of Black Ops 7.

[A]

With three expansive modes, 18 multiplayer maps, and the tastiest zombie gameplay you've ever freaking seen. Call of Duty Black Ops 7 available now.

[B]

Rated M for mature. This episode is brought to you by Netflix from the creator of Homeland. Claire Danes and Matthew Rhys star in the new Netflix series the Beast in Me as ruthless rivals whose shared darkness will set them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The Beast in Me is a riveting.

[A]

Psychological cat and mouse story about guilt, justice, and doubt.

[B]

You will not want to miss this.

[A]

The Beast in Me is now playing only on Netflix. This episode is brought to you by White Claw Surge. Nice choice hitting up this podcast. No surprises. You're all about diving into tastes Everyone in the room can enjoy. Just like White Claw Surge. It's for celebrating those moments when connections have been made and the night's just begun. With bold flavors and 8% alcohol by volume.

[B]

Unleash the night.

[A]

Unleash White Claw Surge. Please drink responsibly. Hard Seltzer with flavors, 8% alcohol by volume. White Claw Seltzer works, Chicago, Illinois. We're agreed.

[B]

Wow. Okay, settled. What's our next issue? Is there any other sort of discord in the country right now?

[A]

I saw a picture from the live action Zelda that.

[B]

Yeah. You sent that to me, and it's.

[A]

Looking real Frodo hours.

[B]

I texted that right to my daughter, like, instantly.

[A]

Like, you were like, did you Columbus?

[B]

I was like, look what I found on the Internet. Apropos of nothing, I. This is why I work these hours for you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My daughter.

[A]

Is it. Is this. Do I misremember Zelda? Is it. Is there like a. A hobbit in this?

[B]

Like, no, they're. My dear Chris. Which camera? They are members of the Hylian race.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They have Elvish ears.

[A]

I don't think I've played this game since it was on, like, a PC.

[B]

Like, it was never.

[A]

I played it, like, on nes. Nes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I beat it.

[B]

Good job. Happy birthday. You are the best.

[A]

I'm gonna do a list of video games I've beat.

[B]

Hold on. Shinobi.

[A]

Keep talking.

[B]

Revenge of Shinobi.

[A]

Fucking Shinobi 3. Yeah.

[B]

That game was sick.

[A]

Yeah. Dudes, like, when I go to Japan, guys are like, we heard about you.

[B]

No one. No one has brought the ethos of Joe Shinogli. I know, it's incredible. One of my favorite things, small detour here about 90s era video games that you play, like, on Sega Genes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is you'd be playing Revenge of Shinobi again. Super sick. Double jump. And then you throw the throwing stars. You'd get. You'd, like, beat the bosses. And they would all be like big fat ninja or whatever. Like, ninja that drops from the sky. And then, like, the villain of, like, the sixth board would be Spider Man. Like, fully Spider man, but with a little bit of a different costume.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because someone.

[A]

Spider Gent.

[B]

But they wouldn't even say why. Or like, Batman would be the villain because someone at SEGA was just freelancing and would be like, you know, who'd.

[A]

Be sick if Shinobi fought that. Yeah.

[B]

And then the lawyers were like, he didn't actually change it because nobody was paying attention to.

[A]

Remember, Would that happen in Mortal Kombat?

[B]

Not to my knowledge. But you probably.

[A]

Maybe I got to some secret level you never got to.

[B]

Yeah. On the PC because you're just better at it.

[A]

No, I got confused because Montezuma's Revenge I beat on the computer, which took a long time.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You put in the hours Only child Life is Real. Zelda is a very front of mind concern in my household because Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom have been massive. Massive dad daughter adventurings. We were still playing it yesterday because my younger daughter's like, let's go do something fun or cool. Because these games are so rich and there's so many weird little side stories you can do.

[A]

You know, Red Dead Redemption also has side stories. If you ever want to play that with my shoulders.

[B]

Gross. The words Grand Theft Auto have lost their meaning for a fewer generations.

[A]

I'll tell you the story of the OK Corral.

[B]

Did you know fun fact about me? Did you know that I did a voice in Grand Theft Auto 3?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We were talking about this.

[A]

Yeah. When? This is during your video game impresario days when you were reviewing games.

[B]

Yeah, when I was the fucking Armand White of the fifth generation home consoles.

[A]

Who did you play? A ninja?

[B]

Yeah, I played Spider Man. Okay, so this is relevant. So I sent that image, which does look ripped straight from a cutscene from Breath of the Wild. That is the visuals of the game, more or less of this beautiful open world and meadows. And that's the way Zelda and Link are dressed in the game. I sent it to my daughter and her instantly wrote, I wish it was animated. Oh, she does not. She was like, this is basically that the takeover is that it was very cosplay.

[A]

And is she excited for Moana in that same. Or skeptical of Moana in that same way?

[B]

Completely uninterested. Okay. Yeah. I think that this interesting thing about the Zelda thing is that there is with Mario, the Mario movie was like a cartoon that just threw a lot of, like, signifiers. And it's for kids. And it. You're just. It's just fun and silly because we all understand that it's absolute gibberish. If you try to make sense of like, these.

[A]

The story.

[B]

These plumbers from Brooklyn, like, going into a mushroom kingdom.

[A]

Are they from Brooklyn? Are you sure they're from Staten Island?

[B]

I want to say they're from Queens in support of our new mayor elect. I feel like everything's coming up Queens these days.

[A]

Did you think those guys voted Cuomo?

[B]

No, they're Sliwa. Thousand percent.

[A]

Sliwa get these turtles. Yeah.

[B]

He takes a real interest in animal life in the city. They're turtles in the sewers. Absolutely. Sounds like a Sliwa campaign commercial. The Zelda thing is so deep. Video game in a way that I don't understand how they're going to translate it, because basically there have been 10 to 14 iterations that all are kind of like, Link must save Zelda in a world with this name. But every time the world is different and Link doesn't talk.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So there really. And Zelda gets kidnapped and he rescues her at the end. So either it's a screenwriter's dream to be like, I shall write the fantasy adventure romance that I've always wanted to write and put it in this world with fish people called the Zora, or they're trying to wrap reason around absolute, like, crazy brain 80s Nintendo nonsense.

[A]

I'm just.

[B]

I think they wanted more like. Like, they kind of just were like, the stories and the games are fun and sweet, so just.

[A]

Just like, let's have some iconic moments.

[B]

Throw the cutscenes together, basically.

[A]

Or also, if you just put out a Zelda movie, people will probably take their kids to go see it.

[B]

I mean, I would. Would you take your award?

[A]

I saw an ad yesterday for adopting teens, and it was like, was it.

[B]

Service to you because of how you talk about it?

[A]

It was like, it was. And it was like. I can't remember whether it was like some, but it was basically like, give me someone to look up to. And it's like a older man, like, looking up to a tall teenager.

[B]

And I was like, that's your dream. It's like you and Jalen Phillips be like, ah, my son, you are so strong. If only you could be trained in the arts of.

[A]

Does your daughter want all live action films animated? Like, would she advocate for an animated materialist?

[B]

Huh? Great question. First of all, thank you. I think she would have been more drawn by the caveman plot that bookends the film. You know, I thought that was pretty radical. No, no, I think she likes. I think she likes things to stay in their lane. Maybe she's kind of a traditionalist. You know, she likes cartoon, like a classic Disney cartoon. And then she likes mostly Jane Austen adaptations, so that's pretty much. And wicked for good.

[A]

Landman.

[B]

Why don't you ask me if I like Landman, you coward?

[A]

Well, okay. You know what? I find this to be a little bit of he doth protest too much. I never said you have to watch the second season of Landman, like, you've been like, you've. I can't believe you're making me do this. I never said we have to do it.

[B]

First of all, I think you.

[A]

I think you got a little taste, you know, and. And the sweet oils are flowing again out in West Texas and you want to back in.

[B]

I mean, there is something comforting about a show that really privileges the idea of a world, a country, nay, a state, in which a man can just lecture a woman on anything at any time for as long as he wants to. And she will stand there and be like, great point, sir. I will have someone buy you cigarettes.

[A]

Are you. You cannot view this show through that lens.

[B]

You don't think I should view it through a woke lens?

[A]

No, I didn't say that. You said that. I just meant, like, if you're going to this show to have your political and social convictions affirmed, I don't think you're going to enjoy it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's more formal than that.

[B]

I see. No, I see. Please tell me more. I'm ready to talk about the show. I just do think the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was somehow I watched the season premiere before you did.

[A]

I was like, oh, yeah, is it up?

[B]

That was so crazy. That was the sickest fucking flex you've ever texted me.

[A]

You texted that at like 7 in the morning and you'd watched it at like 4. Because we're still jet lagged.

[B]

We're so jet lagged. I was like, this is a perfect use of the hours of 5am to 6am on a Sunday. Is to return to the adventures of. What's this? Tommy.

[A]

Tommy.

[B]

Yeah, Tommy & Co. And Emtex. Right. And I assumed that you had spent some of your downtime sweating off the pints last week. Just digging into the screeners.

[A]

I was watching just. I was just watching Gavin and Stacy and Celebrity Traders, you know, just trying to.

[B]

Literally all of my co workers there.

[A]

Okay, so Landman is back and I would give you a recap of what happened in the first season. The beginning of the episode has like a last season on Landman. I really don't know if any of that's going to matter.

[B]

I don't know if it matters.

[A]

I've tried to diagnose what I think is what makes the show so successful. In some ways, I don't want to be too much of an anthropologist. I don't think anthropologists would be welcome in Land Man. Honestly, can you imagine?

[B]

Hello, I am a social anthropologist. I'd like to talk to you about Gender roles. Or at least study yours. What's that you're drinking there, sir? And please, may I have some of that pasta? Go on.

[A]

It basically picks up where the last season ends, which spoilers for the first season of Landman. If you haven't watched it already. Jon Hamm dies of a heart attack.

[B]

Lucky guy.

[A]

Monty, who had run emtechs, making it one of the biggest independent oil producers. Or the biggest independent oil producer in the region.

[B]

Apparently. We learned this episode was kind of an infamous son of a bitch.

[A]

Well, I mean, I think he drove a hard bargain, but you know who drives a harder one?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Cammy.

[B]

I do know.

[A]

His widow, played by Demi Moore, who was in the first season.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And one of the things you and I remarked upon a lot. You know, I'm. I am now becoming a bit of a sleuth when it comes to. I wonder if this person was on set the same day they shot the scene with this other person. Or a bit of a sleuth.

[B]

But I gotta tell you, if you will.

[A]

I think Demi Moore, like put the work in and put the time in. And she is often seen swimming laps in the first season, getting out, handing Monty a smoothie, asking him to take his heart medication, telling him not to be stressed out. None of which he took to heart. And then his heart exploded because I think because of like a cartel action against his oil rig or something like that.

[B]

Sure. I don't think so.

[A]

So we got the oil company deal. Monty has now. Or Tommy has become the president of Ops de facto.

[B]

This is one of one of Monty's last master strokes.

[A]

Also made the lawyer a big deal there too.

[B]

Yeah. But then I think. Then I think posthumously from the afterlife, Monty read the Reddit response to that lawyer and was like, still in the cast.

[A]

She's in the credits.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Also in the credits Build third is Andy Garcia.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Who has been in one scene in two seasons of this show so far, including this first episode. Does not appear.

[B]

Do you think that now that we see. And we're going to jump around a bit, obviously. But Demi Moore's performance as Cammie in this. I think it's the best thing in this season premiere. I thought she was great. Is this the greatest slow planting of a major character since Bunny Colvin in season two of the Wire? I think it's comparable.

[A]

It means as much to American history.

[B]

I think it does too. Both great leaders who had responsibility foisted upon them thought outside the box and that. And were also motivated by. By coeds giving blowjobs to 70 year olds or. No. Is that just.

[A]

I don't think that happened to Bunny Colvin. But that's a. That's a stirring scene when Cammie comes across two young women in a hotel lobby bar bathroom, and they're talking about how they're gonna get a free trip to Tulum out of an oil executive.

[B]

Let me tell you something.

[A]

By dealing out some BJ's. Yeah.

[B]

The only thing that I can think of that hates young women more than Cami is the television show Landman. And that's saying something. I'm gonna. I'm gonna go on the record with that. You can clip that, Kyle. I feel strongly about that.

[A]

Cammy takes over this company. Tommy's still running it. It's basically the same playbook as last season in terms of. There is like kind of a weekly crisis or whatever with the oil company. This one's really just Cammy's introduction to the sharks, or rather the.

[B]

She introduces herself.

[A]

Predators of the Serengeti, which is what they. They refer to the luncheon that Cami is giving for all the other oil executives. Some other plots going on. We are introduced to what we've realized is Tommy's brother. Right. Is it his brother or his father?

[B]

That's his father, dude. Is it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

His mom dies.

[A]

You. You.

[B]

I thought they were like, we went over this.

[A]

Oh, we did go over this. And I was like, yeah.

[B]

Because they are about nine years apart in human age.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But I am here to tell you.

[A]

Sam Elliott plays Billy Bob Thornton's dad.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

God damn it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't think that's right. There's a lot of things in Lamb.

[B]

That I think this is where you draw your line. This is a show in which.

[A]

Sorry for caring about age gaps. You know, I know it's not fashionable.

[B]

But there is a 15 minute scene in which Ali Larder has spent $3,000.

[A]

You timed it too. Because it's actually 11 minutes, but it is mind blowing. But let's finish Sam Elliot first.

[B]

Well, I'm just saying. And in that scene, all of the setup and all of the money spent on truffles is so Billy Bob Thornton can be like the time of the month. Huh, missy? That's the plot. Well. And you're upset about Sam Elliot being someone's dad.

[A]

I just was confused because his name is TJ and I was like, oh, maybe. Maybe his name is Tim John. And then Tommy's name is Tommy.

[B]

Sorry, Tim John. Timjon. Ah, Timjin. But nice to see you.

[A]

You're probably Right. He's probably Tommy Sr. You know what I mean?

[B]

He's fucking Tommy Senior.

[A]

He's 11. He's not that much older than Billy Bob.

[B]

He isn't 11 years older than him. Which, considering the way Taylor Sheridan views masculinity, is possible.

[A]

That's big breeding hate.

[B]

That is perfect. If you ask his daughter about.

[A]

Because this is also.

[B]

His daughter walks into a college interview and delivers a beautiful monologue about eugenics.

[A]

Yes. Did you find that scene funny?

[B]

I want to talk about it. We'll get there.

[A]

Okay, so I think one of the major season long arcs obviously is going to be Tommy's apparently father coming into the scene, so.

[B]

Oh, maybe you think it's not really.

[A]

His father and he's living in an Amarillo assisted living facility.

[B]

Also. Wait, Chris, do you know how we know it's his father? Because within seconds of meeting him, a woman walks up to him and he explains how nature works. To her, this man is near death. And a woman says, sir, sir, Literally, tears in her eyes. May I help you to dinner?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And he's like, do you fucking know why? The sun sets at a different hour in the evening, missy, you fucking pea brained female.

[A]

But then when the dude comes out, he's like, all right, brother, I'm ready.

[B]

Yeah. The guy, a man comes out and he's just like, you do whatever you want, sir. And he's like, thank you, fellow man. I will have dinner now. It's nuts.

[A]

We get basically an entire half episode. I'd say two thirds of an episode. That's pretty standard, Landman. Including Tommy lecturing a hotel waitress about skipping breakfast and how you should skip.

[B]

Breakfast and who invented breakfast as the most important meal of the day.

[A]

I will say, like, every 11 Tommy speeches, I'm like, it kind of sounds right.

[B]

You know, that's how they get you.

[A]

It was. I think it was that one. And. And also, like, how do you think we. We, like, pay for all this? Wind farming is with oil.

[B]

By the way, you. How many. How many speeches do you think is his hit rate? Every 11. Yeah, that's basically what you said to me about the Red Scare podcast.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

You're like, every 10 or 11, those ladies, you're like, they stumble their way into some truth. Definitely don't go on.

[A]

You don't have. You don't have editorial control over this podcast, clearly.

[B]

No, but I'm nice to the person who does.

[A]

And then we get to like, this sort of 2/3 of the way in. And as Andy has alluded To. There is a dinner scene to end the episode that runs for 11 and a half minutes. I did time it at 37 minutes. Tommy comes into his home, and it.

[B]

Everyone else comes.

[A]

We find out that Tommy's mother has died. As he smokes a cigarette and looks at the same sunset that his father also was looking at in Amarillo.

[B]

Yeah. Now, do you want to just get into that dinner, or do I have a couple other points for the other.

[A]

Stuff I wanted to lead Love.

[B]

Yeah. Let's say the positive things first.

[A]

I think Ally Allarder is fantastic as a person and as a performer. And I think that she's probably participating in and authoring this role, probably with all of her heart, and seems to be diving into it like Greg Louganis from a high dive. You know, just like whatever it takes. The fashion, the outrage, the emotions of this character.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I really like her.

[B]

Great.

[A]

I don't know that she is being served well by the material.

[B]

Okay. I think that's very artfully said. All right, we'll get. Because there were a couple other scenes that I wanted to talk about, but we could talk about the dinner scene. Let's talk about the dinner scene. Because one of my favorite things about the Taylor Sheridan experience is that on some level, even he knows he doesn't need all of the scenes that he writes. Because Tommy walks into the dinner before dinner is served. And what's our guy's name, the actor who's just way too good to be Colin Shewer. Yeah. And he's sitting at the table and he's like, hey, Nate, I'm just gonna paraphrase here. FYI, it's that time of the month for my crazy wife. And he's like, I definitely get that sense because women are crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's like, okay, noted. And then the scene happens, and the purpose of the scene is for him to say that to her face is.

[A]

The thing that I think is so bizarre. You've often said Taylor Sheridan gets either. Gets no or takes no notes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This purpose of what this scene would be in any other television show. Is that Jacob Laughlin's character?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Caleb. What's his name?

[B]

Sure. Colton Carter. Doesn't matter.

[A]

I do want to know. I want to know if I'm right. It's Cooper.

[B]

Oh, but we don't. We're going to cut that. Okay.

[A]

You keep it. You keep it. You can also keep your Red Scare fandom. It's okay.

[B]

I'm just interested in all sides.

[A]

Sure. Cooper. The whole point of the dinner is we are following Cooper from his oil strike, where he apparently has become a millionaire many times over and is like, I gotta go talk to my dad about business. And she's like, all right, you know, see you later. And he goes to dinner.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we're like, okay. We're coming to talk about the fact that the son has become a landman.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And there are land men in this family now.

[B]

Yes, land men. Exactly.

[A]

It never even gets to that point. He never mentions what he's been saying that day or why he wanted to see his father, because we immediately go into a long diatribe of. About menstruation and Caccio Pepe with white truffles.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you guys, if you don't know the show, you would think Chris was having a stroke when he's.

[B]

It's like when I talked about chair company last week.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. If the show was interested in any traditional definition of rising stakes or drama.

[A]

But that's the thing. He's so. He's like, cooper.

[B]

Yeah. If you just isolated the Cooper plot. This is fucking like. This is a Jimmy Stewart movie from the 30s. Like, it has been absolute roaring success from the minute all of his friends died in a fiery explosion in the pilot.

[A]

And then he married the guy's girlfriend.

[B]

Or wife, who now just shows up and says, ah, mi amour. It is pretty interesting being rich. Like, there hasn't been a single obstacle.

[A]

I did find that I was mildly annoyed that a woman who has spent seemingly the last few years because she was with this guy who was on this wildcat team in the oil business, when Cooper's like, I'm pumping 5,200 gallons a day. Oil's trading at $50. That's $39,000 a day. And she's like, is that a lot? She would know. That's a lot.

[B]

Well, I think she's. She might be groggy because she's been.

[A]

Dealing with solo parenting.

[B]

Solo parenting. And he. And she's like, ah, the baby's asleep. And Cooper's like, guess what? Put that fucking baby away. You're rich.

[A]

Yeah. Because that baby now can go to Brown, you know.

[B]

Wow. Make it personal. First of all, there is a vibrant financial aid program anyway. Yeah. Like, that would be a storyline on any other show, but it is not a storyline on this show. Similarly, one of the compelling traits of Allie Larder's character, whose name is. I want to say, Caleb.

[A]

Angela.

[B]

Angela. Is that she attempts to culture these roughnecks. And last year she made paella. Yes. This year she made pasta. Now, creating a perfect cacio e pepe with the emulsion of the pecorino cheese is challenging, certainly at scale for 10 people. Not a la minute. I get that. I don't think Taylor Sheridan, who wrote this, understands even the like. I guess that was a vehicle for her to explain something fancy, but then have bought a more expensive ingredient, in this case, a white truffle, which was available, incredibly, at the specialty goods store in Midland, Texas. And how she was going to grade it over them, but not give it to her children, who she says don't have advanced palates, even though her son is a millionaire many times over and her daughter is 35.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So fine. But, like, that is not a complicated dish. And so then to cut to these guys being like, what are these long strands of wheat? Where's the sauce? Like it. None of it hangs together, but it is being performed with such a seriousness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Also, he could be like, you women are crazy a couple days every month. Like, that is the purpose of.

[A]

That's what I'm saying, is that you. You could hate it. And then there's a big part of me that hates it. Hates the content.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But admires the freedom.

[B]

Do you know what I mean? You admire the freedom, the creative freedom.

[A]

Yeah. The fact that he's just like. You thought this was going to be a scene where father and son recognize that, you know, it's. The stakes are different, and instead it's about a woman having her menstrual cycle and making pasta.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For 11 minutes.

[B]

So it's like Jean Dielman. Right. It's like that Belgian film that won the Sight and Sound poll. I mean, that's basically the same thing. If you. If you squint, if you zone out. If you just zone out like 100,000, it's all the same. I'm just saying.

[A]

I'm just saying.

[B]

I liked. You asked me about the interview scene in which the daughter is like a TCU daughter's like.

[A]

And I was going to text Joel Anderson, the ringer's Joel Anderson, because I think he's a big TCU supporter.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And I would imagine. I've never talked to Joel exactly about tcu, but I think he went there, how he felt about the depiction of the college in the show.

[B]

I thought it came off fairly well. I want to. Speaking of Brown, shout out my old college friend Miriam Silverman for playing Greta. No, not Gretel.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You knew that. You knew the admission officer didn't leave with that.

[B]

And she's. She Won a Tony last year.

[A]

For what?

[B]

For the sign in Sidney Burstein's window that I think Oscar Isaac was in. Okay, Shout out. And she was way too good for that part.

[A]

Do you have her number?

[B]

And she likes to call her life.

[A]

How was it?

[B]

I don't. I don't have her number now. That would be.

[A]

We should start doing that call. Calling people.

[B]

What's up, Miriam? She's going to love this. I haven't spoken to her in 20 years. I didn't see your Tony Award winning performance. Heard it was great. But what I really want to talk to you about is, like, getting into that. Like, how does someone become a horned toad? Like, how do you earn it? She was so much better than that scene needed to be. But also she did seem to understand the satire of some aspect of it and had a good spirit about it, which I appreciated.

[A]

And I thought Michelle Randolph. I mean, I know you often mention the fact that she's too old for that part. Yes. I thought she at least was doing like some comic stuff that maybe she didn't do in the first season.

[B]

And am I really a friend of women if I'm criticizing women's ages? I mean, I'm really.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Chantelle Ackerman.

[A]

Steal Thyself Fair.

[B]

I. I think ultimately my thing about the show is one, it is fun to talk about, but two, think about.

[A]

All this stuff we just talked about, like in. Just in this episode. Like, there's a lot. We all do this for Pluribus, you know, I mean, I love Floribus. We're talking about next, but we're going.

[B]

To be in and out in like six minutes. That was pretty good.

[A]

That was masterful art.

[B]

Congratulations.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I think I find it really interesting because at a moment when everything that comes across our scenes we do our screens, we do have to like, pause and just give it a thought. Like, is this AI content? Like, is this fake? And every time I think that this show could be a little bit chatty, a little bit chatgpt. Because the way the main character just sort of walks through an obstacle course of scenes in which he explains things, he's sitting there and he tells the woman about breakfast. And then he's in a big room and the guy's like, do you still have these wells? And he's like, fuck you. You know, I. Do you know how much they're worth? They're $400,000. And she like. And then the more then scenes just sort of keep approaching him as if he's playing A video game of drama.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But the content of the scenes is so, so unhinged that it can't be. That is the spark of humanity.

[A]

It's only him.

[B]

That is the ghost in the machine.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

God bless it.

[A]

He's the watcher on the wall holding back the singularity from happening.

[B]

He's the hero we deserve.

[A]

Let's talk a little bit about Pluribus.

[B]

Yeah, it was good. Thanks for tuning in.

[A]

This was a more of a chamber piece episode, even though it starts with a wonderful flashback to Carol and Helen's relationship when they go to Norway, I believe, and to go see the northern lights.

[B]

Yes. And I will say, you know, because we have to use our lived experience when we comment on television shows. The only criticism I've heard about this show that has rung in any way legitimate to me so far was a friend of mine who has in from England, from London, who has traveled in Norway and said the phoniest moment of the show was when the Norwegian bellhop accepted the tip.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Because.

[A]

Yeah, it's not a big service charge culture there. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That was the sign that they didn't actually go to the ice.

[A]

That's just Vince Gilligan being a wonderful gentleman.

[B]

If you ever want to have a good conversation, bring up tipping to a room full of English people. They love it.

[A]

They love talking about how they don't do it.

[B]

They love talking about how it makes no sense and they don't do it. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, but the key is you just don't pay people a living wage and then it makes more sense than they love it.

[A]

What'd you think of this episode?

[B]

It was good. Yeah, it's pretty good. What'd you think of it? You know what?

[A]

I did think it was that those first two episodes are so breathtaking, both in some of the filmmaking that's going on in there, like the originality of thought, like the characterization of Carol Racy Horn's performance. I'm so over the moon about this. I did not blink twice while watching this episode. I was captivated. But by the end, I did find myself thinking, like, oh, perhaps like.

[B]

This.

[A]

Is a little bit more of a sketchbook for ideas about humanity and about life than it is always going to be a. Like a little clock that Vince Gilligan has made a la Breaking Bad.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Where it's like this propulsive, intricate plotting. I mean, like, obviously, like, there's a lot of things that happen in this episode.

[B]

Episode.

[A]

And I think we find out a lot about the new world Carol is living in. But it felt to me more about an episode that was about the idea of power and control in a life when you don't have any. And like how the others, which I think is how they're being casually referred to now, or maybe they've seen in the Apple Press stuff, you know, they have the power of collective memory and collective expertise. But Carol has like essentially her individuality and also her recklessness, you know, and her emotions and her falling into depression and these. That's almost in her way. Like the only thing that she holds over these people is that if she throws a tantrum, like thousands of people die. And if she asks for a grenade, they kind of have to, by their. By their design, give them to her.

[B]

Well, I think two things. I think that it is still. It is still working that furrow where the power dynamic and the clock is. They're trying to absorb her. So there is an antagonism baked into it. Despite all of the kindness and all the gifting. I'm not the first, I'm in fact the last person to say this, but I do think the more relevant comp for Vince Gilligan's career is the X Files. Because this is an episode where you started to feel. Cause everything about him is process sprouts is empty. You film it empty, then you refill it and you see how that works. And that is just what you get when you watch a Vince Gilligan show. I enjoy the feeling like the watchmaking feeling of him in real time trying to solve what was essentially the unsolvable dilemma of the X Files. Which is a lot of fun, whimsical ideas week to week, but a steady drumbeat of a very stakes heavy over narrative. Right. A canonical serialized what is going on in the world thing. And ultimately that undid the X Files. I think like the show, there are people who love it for the black oil and the aliens and there are people who love it for the vampire of the week. Yeah, the one off episodes. And even in its afterlife, when the show has come back, it's come back as different versions of that. There was the reboot in which it was more of in the movies, in which it was like this is a story.

[A]

It's much more about the alien abduction.

[B]

And then there was the reboot where it's like, well, we'll just sort of have fun again. And I don't know, now it's getting rebooted again. Is it?

[A]

Ryan Coogler is executive producing it at Disney and Daniel Deadweiler is rumored to be in it.

[B]

Is this what you were doing while I was watching Landman?

[A]

This is what I was doing while you were like geese.

[B]

What a band. Fair enough.

[A]

No.

[B]

So anyway, so he's trying to solve for that in real time. And this episode definitely felt like the conceit that could have been one episode of X Files. He was splashing around in the pool a little bit longer and I think he was enjoying that and the. How much bigger the consequences would be if you gave it more oxygen. But Breaking Bad also taught him about keeping that tempo. So I liked. I found the opening almost intentionally like a slowdown of where we've been going. And it's also worth noting that the other aspect of Vince Gilligan that we always admire is he does seem like a very generous boss. And so this episode was written and directed by Gordon Smith, who's worked with him across all the Albuquerque shows. I'm not saying that because it was some drop off in quality. It just was a different person behind the camera. So I found the opening Norway part a little bit of lost. Ish. Backfilling.

[A]

Yeah. But nice to see the two of them together.

[B]

Yeah. And that the show can move in multiple directions. But I did find in a way that was familiar to previous Vince Gilligan shows, the throwaway line of the grenade being made manifest and blowing up. But then that final conversation with the DHL guy or whatever, suddenly the power dynamic shifted again. And you realize that she does have. Not just that she can yell at them, but her obstinance is kind of like a virus to them and they can't solve for it. And her power is much more than it may be odds.

[A]

It's confusing them because that sprout scene, while an lovely kind of visually funny set piece, also kind of is exemplary of Carol's consumerism and maybe sort of her consumer therapy that she does or shop. You know, shopping therapy that she does where she. She wants an entirely full supermarket to shop in. Even though they could bring her anything she wants.

[B]

She just wants it. She wants things her way.

[A]

And you juxtapose that with her alarm that the lights are all going off and the people are. The others are just like, well, need them. There's no crime. So we don't need. We only need certain things illuminated and we'll just save electricity. And that's inconceivable to her. You know, she's just sort of like. What do you. Yeah, like this kind of collective spirit when she's got this kind of gaping wound of not narcissism But I guess narcissism, you know, is a fascinating juxtaposition to me.

[B]

And another. Just another one of the really smart themes that the show is so capable of playing with, like individual versus what is our individual responsibility versus collective action. I appreciate, by the way, that the Ringer has adopted this attitude by not having air conditioning anymore inside the studio.

[A]

I was just gonna say it's getting a little.

[B]

But I appreciate that because it's probably for the good of the environment of the greater Southland.

[A]

That's probably what they were thinking.

[B]

I think that's probably what they were thinking. And I, you know, as the more politically minded, as an ally. As an ally of women under the age of 35, apparently. Don't clip that. Kai McMullen. Kai McMullen. No, you cannot clip that. Kai McMullen. Red scare listener. Cannot clip that. I ruined this take. I do not consent. Yeah, that's my opinion.

[A]

Let's wrap it up there.

[B]

It's getting a little dangerous in here.

[A]

And now I'm like, I don't even know where this is going because it's your birthday. Pluribus still rules. Thanks to Kya. Thanks to Kai. It's great to be back in Los Angeles. We'll come back on Thursday. Maybe we'll publish later and we could do the fourth episode of Blurbus.

[B]

I want you to catch up down Cemetery Road. Want to hear your thoughts on that.

[A]

Okay. What do I want you to do? Get ready for Landman next week.

[B]

I gotta prep. Yeah, I gotta prep. I gotta learn a lot, shoot straight.

[A]

Do you want to do this? Is this the way you want to spend the rest of your 2025 watching Landman?

[B]

When you put it like that, it sounded worse.

[A]

I used to love talking about it with you, but I hate dragging you along when you don't want to go, you know?

[B]

It's not that I didn't want to go. Clearly, I. You know, we've been friends a long time. Yeah. You know, are we brothers? Am I your father? Hard to tell. Hard to tell. But I think what was the worst moment of my weekend was the existential panic when I thought that you just were gonna leave me there. That I thought I was alone in Midlands. Oh.

[A]

That I wasn't gonna watch it.

[B]

That this was a prank thing, that I was like, oh, that was just.

[A]

A bit last year. No, I'm. I'm watching this show, and I want to see father and son or brother and brother reunite. And I want to see Andy Garcia, and I want to see Cammie Cook.

[B]

I liked Emmy in this episode. I thought she was really good.

[A]

Yeah, that's it for us. We'll be back on Thursday. Hope everybody has a great week.

[B]

Happy birthday, Barinskis.