‘Task’ Episode 4 With Mark Ruffalo, Tom Pelphrey, Brad Ingelsby, and Salli Richardson-Whitfield! Plus, ‘One Battle After Another’ Is Timely and Timeless.

Summary

The Watch (The Ringer)

Episode: "‘Task’ Episode 4 With Mark Ruffalo, Tom Pelphrey, Brad Ingelsby, and Salli Richardson-Whitfield! Plus, ‘One Battle After Another’ Is Timely and Timeless."

Release Date: September 29, 2025
Hosts: Chris Ryan & Andy Greenwald
Featuring: Mark Ruffalo, Tom Pelphrey, Brad Ingelsby, Salli Richardson-Whitfield

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Episode Overview

This multifaceted episode of The Watch dives into two major pop culture discussions:

1. ‘One Battle After Another’ – The latest film from Paul Thomas Anderson, celebrated for its artistic, timely, and timeless resonance.
2. ‘Task’ Episode 4 Deep Dive – A thorough discussion of the latest twist-filled episode, followed by a live-recorded post-screening talk with stars Mark Ruffalo, Tom Pelphrey, creator Brad Ingelsby, and director Salli Richardson-Whitfield.

The conversation maintains the witty, enthusiastic rapport Greenwald and Ryan are known for, blending insightful media criticism, personal anecdotes, and behind-the-scenes revelations from their live panel event.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. ‘One Battle After Another’ – A Modern Masterpiece?

[03:41 – 18:00]

• Viewing Experience & Format Pedantry

  • Andy shares his experience seeing the movie in VistaVision, touching on "cinephile culture" and the movement toward unique theatrical viewing (“There was someone at the front of the line, handing out little stamp cards for one format after another, and I was like, sir, you grossly overestimate my ability… to see movies, and B, how liquid I am. Yeah, that's crazy.” – Andy, 06:23).

• Navigating Expectations

  • Chris and Andy discuss the intimidation and thrill of watching a film heralded as a generational masterpiece, highlighting the tension between critical hype and viewer anticipation.
    • Andy: “...when you just get the ambient… elevation that this is a generational masterpiece, it's impossible for that not to seep in.” (09:01)

• Time, Timelessness, and Artistic Clairvoyance

  • They marvel at PTA's ability to craft a film both of its moment and transcending it. The hosts compare its loose temporal setting to literary adaptations and reference the film’s roots in Pynchon's "Vineland."
    • Chris: “To feel art that is absolutely in sync with the moment in which it is released is such a rare thing… at times almost oppressive in its immediacy. And I loved that.” (09:55)

• Leo’s Performance & Themes of Agency

  • The guys debate where Leonardo DiCaprio’s work here stacks up against his career, noting the performance’s humor and subtlety, especially the idea that “the hero of the movie... does nothing, succeeds at nothing. Except he's a hashtag good dad.” (Andy, 16:48)
  • They highlight the film’s embrace of fiction over strict realism:
    • Andy: “This movie is so aggressively fiction in a wonderful way that some people might not be used to. I think that's good for the world to have something like that out in it.” (14:45)

Memorable Quote:

“The end is... the last two lines of dialogue. Atom bombed my heart and I'm not recovered from it. That's the new ‘wanna have a catch, dad,’ as far as I'm concerned.” – Andy, 16:56

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2. ‘Task’ Episode 4 Breakdown

[18:00 – 44:16]

Crime Thriller Mechanics & ‘The Mole’

• Diving into the intricacies of the task force’s investigation, suspicion falls on Kathleen McGinty (Martha Plimpton’s character), but the hosts explore misdirection and editing choices used to keep the audience guessing.

  • Chris: “It's somewhat artificially capped... the conversation taking place basically at the midway point in the season caps what they can say...” (18:42)
  • Andy: “We have spent the least amount of time with Alia personally...” (24:00) – On the possible mole.

• Striking a Puzzle-Drama Balance

  • The hosts note that while the show uses a whodunnit structure, they care less about the solution than the human drama and systemic commentary being developed.
    • Chris: “Honestly, you could make a case for any one of these people... But that’s honestly not the most interesting part of the show to me is like, who's the mole?” (26:06)

Character & Tonal Observations

• Robbie & Tom: Failures, Flaws, and Systems

  • Chris and Andy reflect on the flawed, almost “too human” lead characters, comparing Robbie’s naïve ideas (run away to Canada) and Tom’s growing sense of futility.
    • Chris: “Think about a conventional show or another version of this show would be Robbie and Tom... we are just gonna collide at some point. This is Heat... Robbie’s not the best at what he does...” (29:06)
  • Andy posits that the show’s world positions both cops and criminals as caught in larger systems:

    “All society is a collection of systems... both sides need that [the radical] stamped out, unfortunately.” (30:52)

• Cliff’s Tragic End

  • They discuss Cliff’s death scene, the misdirection with cars, and the show’s willingness to depict brutality but also moments of grace—Robbie’s dance with his daughter, for example.
    • “That scene was devastating. It was beautifully shot by Sally. It was Tom Pelfrey sadistizing the bizarre.” – Andy, 32:31

• Tonality and Pacing

  • Chris admires how Task uses humor and light moments (Lizzie’s “Bullseye” patch banter) to cut through otherwise grim situations.
    • Chris: “Not only do we get the misdirect with the couple and the dog, we get Lizzie saying, ...‘I’m going to call you Bullseye,’ which is such a nice mood lightener in that moment.” (42:07)

• Work-Life, Realism, and Life’s Messiness

  • The hosts note how the show’s commitment to depicting chaotic, overlapping systems—work, family, criminality—reflects real struggles to “do one thing” well.
    • Chris: “I also like, whether it's intentional or not, what it says about how hard it is to just do one thing.” (29:05)

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3. Panel: Brad Ingelsby, Salli Richardson-Whitfield, Mark Ruffalo, Tom Pelphrey

[46:45 – 76:45]

Building the World of Task

• On Balancing Crime Plot & Human Drama:
  • Brad Ingelsby:

    “Whenever… the plot is overwhelming the show in some way, I always have to stop and check myself and say, what is the show really about? It's about these characters and... the emotional arcs… Never letting the plot have to take over…” (48:17)

Filming in Philadelphia

• The cast and creators stress how much authenticity came from filming on location.
  • Mark Ruffalo: “It's the light, it's the feeling, it's the cars, it's the stores, it's the people… It ended up being my character’s biggest... [Philly food tour].” (50:27)
  • Tom Pelphrey: “The crew is just constantly busting my chops… that’s what I’m used to. The way of showing affection... it was a Safe space.” (52:54)

On Genre Influence & Structure

• Brad Ingelsby reflects on Heat and Breaking Away as structural and emotional inspirations:

  “Structurally, Heat was an influence... But Breaking Away... it's why we have a quarry in the show... I’ve always wanted to tell a story like Breaking Away that was about friendship...” (71:24)

Crafting Suspense and Misdirection

• Salli Richardson-Whitfield:

  “That [crime plot ambiguity] came out in editing… give Brad lots of different choices so we can figure out how we want to weave this together… when you reveal things as opposed to what you reveal.” (59:42)

Character Pain & Stakes

• Brad on emotional intensity:

  “Why are we dropping in at this point in a character’s life? …They're both going through a crisis of faith... so I think I made things as painful for both of them as I possibly could... A+ for the pain I put on these characters.” (74:04)

Acting & Directing Process

• On emotional authenticity and collaboration:
  • Ruffalo: “We're always carrying our home life everywhere we go. Tom’s home life... is just eminently part of his existence.” (62:30)
  • Pelphrey: “We all hope that there’s better days ahead. I think that's the reason Robbie’s so relatable...” (64:24)
  • Richardson-Whitfield: Describes a responsive, actor-driven directing approach, relying on performance “feeling right” and sometimes simply: “Can you do that faster?” (68:23, 70:33)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• On DiCaprio’s Character in 'One Battle After Another':

  • “The hero of the movie, the nominal hero of the movie, Bob, does nothing, succeeds at nothing. Except he's a hashtag good dad.” – Andy, 16:48

• On Emotional Impact:

  • “The end… the last two lines of dialogue. Atom bombed my heart and I'm not recovered from it.” – Andy, 16:56

• On Balancing Plot and Character:

  • “Whenever… the plot is overwhelming the show… I always have to stop and check myself and say, what is the show really about? It's about these characters and… the emotional arcs of the characters and never letting the plot have to take over that part of the show." – Brad Ingelsby, 48:17

• On Regional Authenticity:

  • “It's the food. I started with a fake belly... that just kept getting bigger and bigger as my real belly underneath it was getting bigger…” – Mark Ruffalo, 51:11

• On the Editing and Building Suspense:

  • “...sometimes you just gotta watch it a few times and go, is this the best version of the sequence that’s hitting the emotional beats and the Surprises." – Brad Ingelsby, 61:19

• On Acting Scenes with Children:

  • “Knowing what it means now, the infinite depth of the meaning… one thing I never had a single question about was: would you do this for your kids? The answer, fuck yeah. Oh, yeah. Anything, you know?” – Tom Pelphrey, 65:15

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Panel Preview: 00:32–01:43
• Task Panel Overview: 01:43–03:38
• ‘One Battle After Another’ Discussion: 03:41–18:00
• ‘Task’ Episode 4 Deep Dive (Hosts only): 18:00–44:16
• Panel Recording / Cast and Creators Q&A: 46:45–76:45 (main highlight: 48:21–76:45)

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Conclusion & Next Episode Tease

The episode masterfully blends critical admiration, behind-the-scenes insight, and the irrepressible chemistry of Andy and Chris. Whether discussing meticulous film craft, the texture of regional TV drama, or swapping war stories with actors and creators, this Watch installment is a rich, immersive listen for pop culture obsessives.

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For more, listen to the podcast to catch the full live-recorded panel featuring Brad Ingelsby, Salli Richardson-Whitfield, Mark Ruffalo, and Tom Pelphrey, plus their laughter, camaraderie, and candid revelations.

Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Focus Features. Don't miss Focus features Anemone starring three time Academy award winner Daniel Day Lewis in his long awaited return to the big screen. It's the most anticipated performance of the year. Anemone tells the story of two brothers wrestling with their past and the one secret that has kept them apart for decades. Anemone Rated R under 17. Not admitted without a parent. Only in theaters October 3rd. I need support staff to clear the room.

[B]

Stand up and walk now.

[A]

Hello and welcome to the Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] and joining me in the studio, don't mind me, Dark hearts. Just putting a little Linda Thompson on here at the bar. It's Andy Greenwald.

[B]

Did you take that as proof that you would do well at Lefty's that they were playing, you know, shoot out the lights or whatever?

[A]

Well, I do think that we have a situation on Task which we're going to be talking about today on the Watch where the musical supervision is perhaps outpacing the taste of the characters, but we will get to that. We're going to get to a lot of things about Task. Andy. Last night you and I had the pleasure of hosting a panel talk at Videots featuring Mark Ruffalo, Tom Pelfrey, Brad Englesby and last night's episode's director, Sally Richardson Whitfield. And we're going to play that in the second half of this episode. So you have some task talk coming from the people who made it. And then we're also just going to break down the episode a little bit here and if there's any headlines you want to talk about tariffs, you know, Apple withholding the servant, whatever hot button issues you want to address. The savant, they have another show called the Servant.

[B]

They've got many shows. They also have two other Jessica Chastain shows like in the Hopper.

[A]

Do they really?

[B]

They've been greenlit. There's like an art world one. Oh, there's a. She stays working for them. So she's like, I didn't. We weren't aligned on this one. But how are you?

[A]

Late night rock and roll Sunday night for us.

[B]

Listen, it was great. We had a really good time. Kaya, Kai, the whole team, they showed up. They showed out. Yeah. Someone said from HBO was like, you guys have a great team. And I said, chris has a great team. I'm just part of that team.

[A]

You're part of my team.

[B]

I'm the long snapper.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You elevated me for Game day. That was really fun. Everybody kind of schlepped out to my neighborhood. It was, I would say, just a little extra color for the. Everyone's gonna get to listen to it. I thought we had a good talk with those guys. It was really, really nice to spend time with a creative team who so clearly enjoyed their working experience. Yeah, you. You can fake that stuff. And you certainly often do fake it, you know, in promotional tours, but behind the scenes and. And then definitely when we were doing the talk, like, these guys really respected the hell out of each other in a way that was really. I was kind of contagious. Also contagious. Tom Pelford. So him being on the other end of the room, chairs.

[A]

I saw him.

[B]

He was respectful. He was giving us elbow bumps.

[A]

Yeah, he was. But he also loves Jose Canseco, you know, so he was just doing Bash Brothers with us.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I saw him and Ruffle had a very charming moment where they were talking about their shared love for Jeff Buckley.

[B]

Were they?

[A]

Yeah, because the Buckley documentary is coming out or is out, and Ruffalo had just seen it, and they were like, oh, I love that album.

[B]

Do you think that's a spoiler for episode five of Task, where, like, the rest of JW trash haulers show up at the quarry and they break out a little, like, last Goodbye, like a little blue Sonos Bluetooth thing, and just crank Buckley. Yes. Classic Monko. I love it.

[A]

We can just get right into this episode of Task if you want to.

[B]

Well, how do you want to do it? Because we also both went to the movies. We also saw one battle after another, which we should probably talk about. So do we want to do a little Task? Talk battle, talk back to Task, or should we just.

[A]

Let's do Battle now? I just want to hear about your experience. You went and saw it. So, like, we are lucky enough in Los Angeles to have this incredible collection of movie theaters, especially large format movie theaters. So I got to see it at IMAX and CityWalk last weekend and then talked extensively about it on the big picture. You're also going on the big picture, so perhaps we'll share some thoughts there.

[B]

Though I have no idea what I could be going on to get pranked. Like, I don't actually know why. I don't.

[A]

They don't do that. There's. They're keeping real tight. I'm surprised you haven't received a full rundown from Sean.

[B]

I have received nothing. Only Jack was like, you still want to do this? And maybe he was like, this feels A little.

[A]

Can I give you a tip? When you walk in there, don't tease Sean about the Mets.

[B]

Listen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Have you.

[A]

No. No. You do that. You always text me and you're like, should I text Bill and be like, haha, the Celtics.

[B]

First of all, that was unnecessary. Just aired me out.

[A]

He does the same to us.

[B]

It's not just he does the same to us. I've received two texts from Bill Simmons in the last six months. Both of them have been on group chains.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where he's like, look at your stupid team.

[A]

And then there's like nine dudes whose phone numbers you don't have saved.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it's like, andy, eat shit.

[B]

Yeah. So that's cool. Second, there was no point during the last few weeks of the Met's truly epic $300 million collapse that I actually texted him or any of the other Mets fans in my life. Yeah, that's too dark.

[A]

I know, I know. I went up to Jack yesterday, Jack Sanders, who produces the Big Picture and is also a big Mets fan, and I offered my condolences.

[B]

How was it received?

[A]

I thought level headedly. I will not be bringing it up with Sean.

[B]

Did you bring up that Trey Turner won the batting crown with a.304 batting average?

[A]

This is.

[B]

It's a real dead ball era.

[A]

What happened to the game I love?

[B]

It's so nuts.

[A]

We used to hit singles in this country.

[B]

We used to hit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So no, I'm not prepared for that. But you were talking about formats, and I was very excited to see one battle after another in the format in which it was filmed. Something that I learned about six weeks ago called Vista Vision. And I got to see it at the Vista Theater, which I also did not know is one of the four theaters in America showing the movie in this format. So I had a great experience. We'll talk about the movie. Maybe this will come up on big pic. But that's the church of cinema. And this is, you know, we're just sort of partying outside here so I could talk about it. The level of seriousness with which some people do approach the format stuff is beyond me. When we were entering, there was a huge line because the Vista is not like assigned seats. So it was enthusiastic people ready to support movies. But there was someone in front, at the front of the line, handing out little like stamp cards for one format after another. And I was like, sir, you grossly overestimate my ability, A, to see movies, and B, how liquid I am. Yeah, that's crazy. I did see the Movie and also.

[A]

Probably your passion for formats.

[B]

I think that's exactly right. Right. The other thing that I learned, the.

[A]

World'S most foremost Christopher Nolan on the backseat of a plane watcher, whatever, you.

[B]

Know, I want the movies to meet me where I am, and that's 30,000ft over the mid Atlantic. I also learned, and again, maybe you knew this, that Vista Vision is in fact not a large vista, that it is a more compact ratio.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So when you're in the last row, because you only showed up an hour before the movie, maybe you have a different experience with it.

[A]

I mean, I think that that actually is sort of contributing to like this interesting stratification that I feel like is happening around certain releases, which is. I look, I'm a fucking movie nerd. And I love going to movie theater here in Los Angeles and seeing things in unique ways. But, you know, I do want as many people to feel like they are getting the movie that Paul Thomas Anderson made totally as possible. I think that one thing that you see is, is this like booming cinephile culture that obviously is thriving on. On letterbox and is like really, really inspiring in some ways, but it's not even a concern troll. I just want, like, I want people in Marlton, New Jersey to also go see this movie. And even if it's just at your amc, like on a normal projection, you're.

[B]

Still seeing it in the movie theater. Yeah, I completely agree with that. Don't. Let's not overcomplicate this.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But it was really exciting and it was very exciting to see it in a full theater.

[A]

You went into it similarly to the way I did, which was with the weight of expectations, where it's just, you know, these are pretty uniformly not just good reviews, like once in a career reviews for. For even PTA movies. Do you feel like that affected the way you watched it?

[B]

Possibly. Possibly. Because I think what. That when you just get the ambient and I should say, like, I loved it, I can't wait to. And I genuinely format agnostic. I need to see it again. But I do think that that elevating ambient elevation, that this is somehow like not just a PTA movie, that this is a generational masterpiece, it's impossible for that not to seep in. And so then when the movie does the things that I think I will grow to love even more in the second and third viewing, which is the super PTA kind of digressions or tone shifts, I was almost taken aback by them as opposed to going along the journey with them because there are moments, especially early in the movie, where it's so actually throughout the movie. I'll just say it like, one of the most electric aspects of seeing this movie is the vibe you only get when an artist is both truth telling and telepathic. That, like, he has been working on some sort of spiritual adaptation of the Pynchon novel Vineland. Right. For over a decade, I think on the big pic, I think he said 20 years. He's been sort of kicking it around. He filmed this a year and a half ago. More. He did not know what it would feel like to be in America in 2025, but he absorbed it. Or precog. What's the Minority Report thing?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To feel art that is absolutely in sync with the moment in which it is released is such a rare thing. And it was exhilarating and at times almost oppressive in its immediacy. And I loved that. And I think that that also might be why there were certain when, again, he does his very PTA things, which is why I love him in the first place, where it becomes. It steps backward almost into silliness or repeats certain beats or lingers a little bit too long or is dismissive of something that another filmmaker would turn into an entire meal. Like the shootout at the gas station near the end that I found myself almost yearning to grab the wheel. And that's not something you do in a PTA movie. So the fact that there's so much left on the bone for me to get to once I've gotten those first viewing jitters out makes me really, really excited, but also makes me feel almost like talking about it as an incomplete, like, my reaction to it.

[A]

Yeah, I don't want to get into spoiler territory because obviously, like, I hope that a lot more people see the movie and we just, like, don't need to go through beat by beat. To your point about it being timely, I also thought it was timeless. You know, I was spending some time driving this weekend and I was trying to sort of like, map out the timeline of the movie because there's a time jump in it. And, you know, some of it takes place 15 years prior to, like, the main action of the film, I think. But I was also like, so that would make that this year. That year. And then this goes up to, like, our current moment. And I was just like, why am I trying to solve it? Yeah, why am I doing, like, the. The Wayland Yutani chronology for a BTA movie that is largely a work of adaptation and imagination? But I just, I feel like really grateful about it. And, like, I can't wait. And it's also kind of seeped into my consciousness in a way that really you only get, like, once or twice a year where, like, I've listened to the Johnny Greenwood score a bunch of times, listen to playlists people have made of the soundtrack.

[B]

Johnny blacked out on the score.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And I started, like, even, like, listening to music, like, the music that's in it. You know, I want to dive into Vineland again, which I read, but I think read too young. Maybe.

[B]

My copy of Vineland spent a lot of quality time with me in London in the first part of the year.

[A]

Two pages in. Just kidding.

[B]

Yeah, but he sat in the window. I think it had a nice view of the neighborhood.

[A]

You know, it's funny, I've been reading mostly novels this year, and you and I both have been on this Oliver Harris kick who's a British spy novelist that we're really into. So because I was reading these spy novels, I decided to read a book called the Ghost, which is a biography of James Angleton, who is a very famous, infamous US spy. And it's.

[B]

He's the one who basically ran an endless mole hunt.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And he's the most paranoid man in the history of intelligence.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is.

[A]

Is honestly like the character in the bureau who Jaeger Jae JR is named after him.

[B]

Place him.

[A]

It's really funny to go to non fiction after reading almost exclusively fiction. And just how matter of fact, dudes will just be like, and he was a fascist.

[B]

I'm like, all right, well, if you say so. I mean, but that's actually a really interesting way to consider one battle after another also, which is. And I. And I wonder if people like casuals who are seeing it, if casuals are seeing it, if it does get what I think everyone in the industry, outside of the industry is hoping. It's funny to note, just as a side note, that it used to be that on opening weekends, rival studios would be on deep background to Paul Der Garabadian or whatever, and being like, that's a shit opening. Like, this movie's doomed. And now everyone in town is like, give it time. It's got legs. We need this to succeed.

[A]

Although we have seen over the course of the summer with sinners and Weapons, that there's. You know, usually you get a Marvel movie and then it's like 63% drop off the next weekend now that the geeks have seen it. And this is like, I think people are hoping. Hoping that word of mouth Spreads.

[B]

Judging by me and my colleagues at the Vista, the geeks have also seen this early. But anyway, I was just gonna say that this movie is fiction in a very, very intentional way. The names are very pinchinesque, the ones that he made up and the extravagances of it and the imagination of it. And it's fiction in a way that I find incredibly engaging and thrilling and exciting. But isn't really the way a lot of mainstream art is intended or crafted or received these days? Right. There's a lot of. There's a lot of like, well, it wouldn't really happen that way. Or like, let's solve for this. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that this movie is so aggressively fiction in a wonderful way that some people might not be used to that. I think that's good for the world to have something like that out in it. And just, Just a couple other bullet points. Where would you rank this Leo performance in your personal pantheon? I don't. You don't need to. I'm not gonna hold you to it. I'm just putting you on the spot here. I was talking to my daughters about this on the way. They were asking me what I thought about the movie.

[A]

Your daughter's big Shutter island heads.

[B]

My daughters are like, these posters for them are like, I'm trying to think of an example of like Dorian Gray shit. Like, they're so horrified that leo is a 50 year old man because they've seen Titanic and some of Romeo and Juliet that like, this is an abomination to them. And I was like, get ready. Get ready for the rest of your lives, girls. But they were, they. And they were, of course, they were like, well, Titanic is his best performance. And I was like, let me show you the Quaalude scene from Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah.

[A]

I think for me, probably sentimentally and personally Departed is my favorite Leo performance. Wolf. Once upon a Time in Hollywood.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Body of Lies.

[B]

I thought you were gonna say the Beach, I think not Body of Lies. The Post. I don't know what the first movie that kind of introduced this kind of like broadly goofy Leo into the world is. Whether it's like, whether, whether it was. It's not goofy.

[A]

Don't look up.

[B]

Maybe he's not goofy in Django, but he is Archduke.

[A]

That's actually. That's top three for me.

[B]

His performance in Wolf, his performance in Hollywood. But especially this one. This is top three for me already. I think it's an astounding performance. I think it is so, so, so funny. I'm obsessed with the fact. And this is also something that I think would be rewarded in rewatches, that the hero of the movie, the nominal hero of the movie, Bob, does nothing, succeeds at nothing, accomplishes nothing. Except he's a hashtag good dad.

[A]

Yeah. And I've seen people say that. I push back on that a little bit.

[B]

But you think he's a problematic parent.

[A]

No, I think he accomplished. I mean, like, I think he does a lot.

[B]

But I just mean in terms of his role in the French 75, his role in society during the 16 years. Even when he is a passenger. Yeah, he's a passenger like everyone else. And I kind of. I found that to be very. It felt like a very personal movie in that way to pta and I found that really fascinating. And I think you saw this coming for me because you saw the movie before I did. But the end wrecked me. The end is. And we won't spoil it. But the last two lines of dialogue. Adam bombed my heart and I'm not recovered from it. That's the new wanna have a catch dad, as far as I'm concerned. And as a hashtag girldad, like, there's no going back for me from this movie. And the fact that it. The fact that a movie like this contains that much note, perfect sentiment. And also Saturday Night Live legend Jim Downey of Jeff Epstein with the Island. I would have heard saying, coining the phrase semen demon.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

There's something for everyone in this film.

[A]

Being a girl dad is a great segue to this episode of Task. Should we take it?

[B]

Well done.

[A]

All right, so episode four, All Roads. This one's written by Brad Inglesby and directed by Sally Richardson Whitfield. It is. We can go two directions with this conversation. We'll get to both of them. But do you want to talk about the human drama moments or do you want to talk about the crime thriller moments? Because I have stuff for both.

[B]

I think we should probably start with the crime thriller stuff because that is the noisiest part and in some ways the most confusing part. And we should say again, our talk now is going to be followed by the talk we had with the creators and actors last night. We didn't get in the weeds with it so much.

[A]

It's somewhat artificially capped because you've got the person who wrote the series and someone who directed half of almost half of it. And you've got obviously got the performer. So the conversation taking place basically at the midway point in the season caps what they can say about what the piece itself meant to them or whatever.

[B]

And also the nature of the event last night kept us from saying no. But really, Brad, how did he get the phone?

[A]

Well, let's talk about how did he.

[B]

Get the phone, because we love the show and we have faith in his vision as a creator. And I also am fairly confident, having not watched ahead, that the next episode will make some of those beats clearer. But it is worth noting that in the sense of the masterful navigation thus far through this thicket of characters and themes and betrayals has been really, really clear. And this was the first time when I had to rewind a couple times and still feel not entirely. I think I understand what's essential to understand about, you know, a mole or perhaps moles have diverted the phone, put the phone in the hands of the dark hearts and thus exit clip.

[A]

Let's break it down. In the beginning of the episode when the task force is having a larger meeting with some other law enforcement who are going to be assisting them with this bust at the. Or this perspective bust at the park. Aaliyah is holding up Ry's phone in a evidence bag. In an evidence bag. And she's like, we have been communicating with Cliff as a prospective drug buyer. So he thinks he's meeting us tonight. We're all going to be there three hours early. We're going to be in place. There's a possibility that the kid Sam is going to be in the car. So it's a live wire situation. We have to also approach this as if also a rescue as well as a bust.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. Throughout the episode, but especially in subsequent scenes, like really early on in it, after that briefing, we are getting hints and lingering shots and we have sort of broken. There's a very thin wall that crime shows have where it's like. And we've talked about this a lot, whether or not the characters on the show are at the exact same place as the audience or whether the audience is outpac the characters. And this is one of the hardest things there is to balance as a writer, I'm sure as a novelist, you know, as a filmmaker, whatever it is.

[B]

Not a nonfiction writer. They know more and they're fascists. Very declarative.

[A]

So early on we get a. I would say a couple of, oh, that's why they cast Martha Plimpton shots, because she is obviously an incredibly accomplished actress and a well known person. So casting her as Kathleen McGinty to just be like, I'm too old for this shit three times seems like a waste. So it's not a huge shock that at least we are being tipped towards the idea that McGinty is in some part the leak on the cop, the law enforcement side leaking information to the dark cards.

[B]

And that is the thumb is on the scale for that as well. Because in the van outside at the park, like where. In Tom's little control center where she is as well, there's a line of dialogue, and I'm sure I noted it down, but I didn't highlight it in my notes, where there's some comment about there being a mole or there being some mistrust. And then she dismisses it. Not just that, the edit cuts to her like, this is. Sally and Brad talked a lot about the.

[A]

It's essentially the crime thriller version of Jim Halpert face. You know, it's like instead of selling the joke, you're selling it could be her now.

[B]

And Sally and Brad did talk about the work. They did extensive work they did in the edit on this episode to help shape it and help guide the audience where they wanted the audience to be.

[A]

That's. This is the delicate.

[B]

It could be a misdirect.

[A]

Everybody wants it to be a shock, but they also want the shock to make sense, to feel earned.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's one way of doing that, which is. Forgive me for spoiling Usual Suspects, but it's the Keyser Soze reveal.

[B]

I don't get the reference where it.

[A]

All happens at the end.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. You're watching it the first time through and you're just like, oh, my God, who's Kaiser Soze? Who's Kaiser Soze? Is it another person that we haven't seen and it turns out it's not and that all of that is sort of re. Contextualized. Do I need to spoil it?

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Let's let people enjoy Kevin Spacey and Bryan Singer's work. Just, you know, wow.

[B]

The best possible way to spoil it by celebrating two of our great icons of cinema.

[A]

Or you can be. The camera lingers. And this is an interesting choice that they made where Ruffala's character Tom leaves the room and we stay with Kathleen McGinty and get her calling, saying, hey, we got a problem. Now she could be calling her contractor. I don't know.

[B]

But we know. The question is how many people are.

[A]

Yes. Because I have a hard time believing that the person who is largely like, seems to be in charge of Philadelphia law enforcement is going to also be rooting around in evidence lockers right at this crucial moment.

[B]

Yes. So thus the. The Cloud of suspicion has not lifted off of the other members of the task force, particularly Alia, who is the last one we see with the phone.

[A]

She's the last one we see with the phone. And we have spent the least amount of time with her personally.

[B]

And Grasso remains a suspect for a number of reasons, one of which being he tells Tom that he was interviewed by some lady, which connects them, but.

[A]

Also pretends like he can't remember her name, which seems unlikely.

[B]

Seems unlikely. And then two, his sudden crisis of faith.

[A]

He is the reverse semen demon.

[B]

He is the. Actually, I think the reverse human demon would be something else. That's right. And we probably shouldn't cover that on this podcast. However, I might bring it over to our friends at the Big Pick. It's a much safer place to discuss.

[A]

If somebody skipped the one battle part and just jumped to that, that would be confusing. What I mean is he suddenly has this, I guess you could say kind of sweet and consistent with his character crisis of conscience where he's like. But kind of old fashioned and a bit odd where he's like, I don't want to have our first time. Meaning his and Lizzie's first time having sex in your marriage bed.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which is fine, but odd. And I read that personally, as this guy knows that he is engaged in betrayal and doesn't want to further complicate things.

[B]

I felt that as well. But I also credit the show for doing the legwork to make that kind of crisis of faith, of confidence, plausible.

[A]

Within the bounds of Grasso, who's casting around about faith.

[B]

He keeps asking Tom questions about being a priest or not being a priest or how he felt about it, how he feels. So, you know, he is in the midst of his journey too. Not to step on it, but Brad gives a very, I thought, very insightful and interesting answer in our conversation that you, you guys will hear later about where he likes to engage with characters on their own internal arcs and journeys. And that tracks. So it's the best scenario. It's good on both sides.

[A]

Is there any part of you that see this is honestly not the most interesting part of the show to me is like, who's the mole?

[B]

Totally.

[A]

I remember having this conversation. Maybe I actually wrote about it when the Night of came out. And the first couple of episodes of the Night of, you're just like, I cannot believe the world of New York that this show is building. And how amazing, you know, the depth of feeling and the depth of like, perception that this show has. And then it becomes like Whodunit. Who really did it then? And that's fine. All shows need to arrive there. All crime shows eventually need to solve. Solve their. Their crime in question. I, I, I. Honestly, you could make a case for any one of these people. Like, Crosso, I can understand Lizzie. It would be strange at this point, but also, like, she is kind of, like, at once very gifted but also vulnerable because clearly her life is sort of spinning out of control on the outside. Aliyah, we just don't know a ton about other than her monologue last week that even I think we broached the idea that that could have been performance in some way. In any case, that's happening. And on the flip side of it, you know, the dark hearts are slowly making their way.

[B]

Not so slowly. Well, this whole show has happened in four days.

[A]

I was just gonna say slowly making their way through the huge amount of volumes of photo books that motorcycle gangs keep.

[B]

They're very nostalgic people. That's incredible. It's true.

[A]

This is like Stringer Bell. Like, are you taking notes on a criminal conspiracy?

[B]

It's like, hey, we're having a gang meeting, guys.

[A]

I'm taking lots of group photos.

[B]

Get together, get together. Should we take our guns off? No, no, no, no, no, no. I want to see him in all the pictures.

[A]

If they got RICO charges, it would just be, like, in evidence, the collected photographic evidence.

[B]

And they're all in, like, the folders that they used to give you at the drugstore that says, like, coat of.

[A]

Color on the front reading rally, the site of a shooting that we participated in.

[B]

It's just a bunch of guys being like, oh, over a dead body.

[A]

In any case, Perry is searching for his own mole, and he seems to have at least started to arrive at it by finding a picture at the very end of Maeve with Billy and Billy holding his holster and the gun that was used in the shooting.

[B]

And I don't. I don't think it's. I don't think it's belaboring the point to just say again that, like, all serialized dramas are, to an extent, puzzle boxes with something to be solved, the best of them. And I would, through four episodes, put task in that category hide that, you know, they build on. If the puzzle box part is the skeleton, like the muscle, blood, sinew, all that other stuff is literally, in my tortured metaphor, the meat of the show. And so to your point, like, I don't really care who the mole is. I don't have odds on fanduel about it. I'm really excited to see where the story takes us and what we gain from it.

[A]

I also like, whether it's intentional or not, what it says about how hard it is to just do one thing.

[B]

One task, if you will.

[A]

Yeah. Because think about a conventional show or another version of this show would be Robbie and Tom on this kind of like, we are just gonna collide at some point. This is heat. You know, we're the best at what we do. Robbie's not the best at what he does. He just fucked up, basically, the biggest deal of his life, you know, by trusting Cliff and Cliff's contacts. But also just in general, like, I think he's got pie in the sky ideas and almost childlike ideas about going to Canada and living on an island and having Swiss Family Robinson up there. And Tom is, like, kind of barely holding it together. His home life is coming apart, and now he's got to worry more about who from his side is leaking information than just finding this kid, which is supposed to be his job.

[B]

Well, I'll take it a step further. He's so far from the best at what he does that in the world. In which McGinty is a mole or has a second allegiance. She put him in this job on purpose. On purpose. Because he isn't.

[A]

This guy's handing out pamphlets at trade fairs.

[B]

Yes. So if you extrapolate it further, there's the possibility that this task force was put together to serve the dark heart's interest, to find out with the full engine of the state behind it, who's robbing them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then to make everything go away.

[A]

Well, that was actually. That's a very good point, because you would say she sure put the. She. She identifies its dark arts for him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and then Grosso gives him a certain amount of information, and we have a couple of outside law enforcement people who say very important things like, don't trust anyone. But I don't know how on the ball Tom is with this stuff because he's obviously got a lot going on.

[B]

It also ties into, I think, one of the. Brad Inglesby's main themes in this work, if not all of his work, is that all society is a collection of systems. And that kind of work in concert with each other, good and bad, cop and criminal. Robbie as a sort of noble loser. Failure is a wild card. He's the radical in this, and both sides need that stamped out. Unfortunately, and particularly unfortunately because it's like, you know, man, he just. And I brought this up again with him in the thing we did last night. So I'll let him speak to it. When I say him, I mean Brad. But like he does not let up in his storytelling. Like a more enjoyable. Not enjoyable, but like a more like a lighter entertainment version of Heat, which would get a 10 star rating, 5 star rating for you on Letterboxd, would be all about the action, comma, the juice of the pursuit. There wouldn't be time because I think everyone watching the show is like, I don't think this is going to work out awesome for Robbie. We don't actually know what's going to happen, but it doesn't seem great. We wouldn't have spent this much time on the father daughter dance practice, you know, like they just wouldn't have done it.

[A]

That was like the. I mean, like we're starting to get into the tragedy aspect. We've lost Cliff in a brutal, brutal way.

[B]

Can I talk about that for a second? Okay, finish your thought.

[A]

I just think that like everything now is starting to point in the wrong direction for people, you know.

[B]

Yeah, that scene was devastating. It was beautifully shot by Sally. It was Tom Pelfrey sadistizing the bizarre.

[A]

Yeah, really like an incredible. That must have been an awesome, awesome episode as an actor because you get to have a prologue moment still sad because his wife is sort of drifting away from him. We don't.

[B]

But he gets to play the other version of him.

[A]

Yeah, he gets to play the younger version of himself. We get to see him with his brother. We get to see him in happier times, more or less. And then we get this moment where he both. Where he thinks, you know, everything is gonna be okay because, you know, we've decided we're gonna go to Canada. Then that gets shot down by Maeve with some like really basic follow up questions. And he gets this grace moment with his daughter, but feels very. It's starting to feel a little McBainy, you know, unfortunately.

[B]

So speaking of McBaney, Cliff, I think. I don't think anybody had odds that Cliff was coming out of this episode.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

On two feet.

[A]

And it's a little confusing because like, obviously there's this car stealing situation and Cliff steals a car that looks a lot like the car that eventually gets rushed. If I were, you know, it's. They're both white sedans, I think.

[B]

Oh, you mean the car that the people are looking for their dog.

[A]

Yeah. And so like there's a lot of misdirection and I don't know how much of it is conscious among the criminals versus what the show did to just sort of throw us off.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then on top of that, when did the. When did the buy get changed from the park to wherever they're meeting? Somewhere off the Wissahickon somewhere, you know?

[B]

And the inference is that it changed when someone else was pretending to be Rey.

[A]

Yes. That they were like, actually. Meet me over here.

[B]

Meet me here. Okay. I have to talk about Cliff. Great actor, great performance.

[A]

Raul Castillo.

[B]

Raul Castillo. I'm in his ag. Kind of got off easier than I thought, to be honest with you.

[A]

His head was. His brains were like coming out of his head.

[B]

Yeah, but he was alive. You know, we've seen. He just gone into the blue tent for a little bit.

[A]

I gotta say, getting saran wrapped is like one of my top, top ways. I don't want to go out.

[B]

Listen, I don't want to talk. It's like shark, go for it.

[A]

I think, I think like any kind of skydiving accident where I'm like, this is. I have like time to think about what's gonna happen.

[B]

Oh, you mean every time I'm on an airplane? Don't say that. That's just what I think about. I'm not saying it's gonna happen that I don't mind. I know you ride the waves up there. You're like. You're like Garrett on 100 foot wave up in the sky, chasing the big ones. It's beautiful. For you. Maybe I should be more like CJ Next time I get on an international flight. This is where nature's taking me. No, I'm not saying that he had a pleasant.

[A]

Just watching tenet on a 3 inch screen.

[B]

The way God intended. It's more that far be it for me to tell Jason how to do his job. I have never been in management Jason.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Let alone the very stressful position.

[A]

I think he's a move faster and break things kind of guy.

[B]

It's just that I feel like Cliff had more to tell him. You know what I mean?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what, with advanced interrogation, I don't know where we're at. It's very. It's like I. I don't know what, what do you guys have? Like, if I put this guy through this much pain, I get this much information.

[B]

No, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go galaxy brain on you here and say I don't think it's about doing sicario to people or doing the Zero Dark Thirty.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One thing that I learned, and I think it's true, I didn't learn, but one thing that was Illustrated by one battle after another. And this is. I don't think it's a spoiler if it is hit 10 seconds. People seem resigned to their own fates at different times when being confronted with, you know, the opposing forces are being interrogated. But as soon as the interrogator is just like, how's your sister doing? Then they spill. Right. As soon as it becomes you're responsible for other people who didn't choose this life. So I'm just making a note. Look, broadly speaking, Dark hearts, there's a more relatable workplace comedy there. I think that I don't believe we're going to get into.

[A]

Dark hearts can't be broken.

[B]

But like we learned in this episode that Perry, you know, has the autonomy to go around, interrupt people's dinner, wrap chains around his hands and punch his direct reports in the mouth. But even he's got a boss.

[A]

I love that little moment. I did too. I also love that guy being like, my thing about this motorcycle club is I drive a car. That's how fucking bad I am.

[B]

He probably doesn't even take photos all.

[A]

The way back around to having a cutlass, you know, like, because it's like.

[B]

Two motorcycles with a nice chair.

[A]

Like when you put two, two single beds together, it's better. Yeah.

[B]

That guy really cracked the code.

[A]

European hotels right there.

[B]

Why do they still do that?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Do you remember when last year we went to. We went to Norway for the media festival. We had it. We had a very nice time. But one of the most confounding things about the hotel in Bergen was that it was like many European hotels, like two twin beds that you could join if you wanted company. But there were a few pointers. Oh, no, it wasn't. It was one queen size bed, but two individual blankets, two individuals.

[A]

Oh, that's just. That's how scandies do it though. Why would you share a blanket?

[B]

Because it's like inefficient. They think.

[A]

I think it's just like it's inhumane that people have different body temperatures.

[B]

Yeah. But you can flip off part of it. Like, I feel like the whole point of like sharing a bed with someone is like you share the whole experience. You can't like half ass.

[A]

I think that ultimately, like, I like the way they do things over there.

[B]

Well, some things seem to have worked out. Like, absolutely, you got me on the social contract.

[A]

There's nothing like a ton of dried fish for breakfast, you know?

[B]

Kaya, do you want to weigh in on this? Like, do you feel you've traveled in Europe recently? Do you feel. Do you have a preference?

[D]

The double duvets is not just a scandi thing. That was very European. Yeah, I think it's just a European thing. I. I personally love a double duvet, and I think America should adopt that.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. Just like, you can have your blanket. You want to. You want to strip it off and throw it over there.

[B]

Just a couple of NIMBYs standing in the way of my abundance agenda.

[A]

I don't really think it's the overproduction of duvets that's going to put this planet in the first dumpster.

[B]

The way tariffs are going on duvets from Europe, we'll never be able to have this conversation in good faith. But second, I'm just saying, like, I believe in more of a communitarian experience.

[A]

What if we, for America, we should just make one big blanket that we all sleep under in this country?

[B]

Honestly, we should make one big Saran Wrap and just all go out like Cliff together, because that's what it feels like every day.

[A]

Devin, you heard. That's how we treat Covid now.

[B]

Well, look where we've ended up. Just another week of podcasting in the books. Oh, it's Monday. Can I also make a point? Well, you know what? No, I'll save this because this came up in our conversation with the gang.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Do you have any thoughts about. Without saying it's, whether it's like, an admission of guilt or anything, but that Grasso and what's her name, Lizzie's date is happening after the botched.

[A]

I just note with interest that if that meeting was supposed to happen at 11pm it looks like it was cold and wet outside. Lizzie's got that hood up.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Then cut to. They are at a bar and she's showered. She's got, like, her hair has been straightened. She's done her hair. So that would mean and. But Grasso was referring to. Man, that really set up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I assume that's the same night. So that would mean, like, they have gotten home, showered, then met back up again and stayed out for several beers. That's pushing Philly. Philly's like a 1:30am Last call, right?

[B]

Yeah. But you know what? I'm just going to let them have a pass on this because they're young people and they're able to, like, have a different work life balance than I am. Like when you said went home and went out again, my eyes glazed over. Like, that is psychopath behavior. Yeah. Why would anyone ever do that I'd.

[A]

Love to be in a world where I did that.

[B]

We used to do that. Yeah. Look at us now. Can't remember things.

[A]

I was. You remember when we used to start going out at 10:00pm New York City. What would we do until then?

[B]

Not eat dinner, I'll tell you that much. Yeah, I mean, play PlayStation.

[A]

Play PlayStation? Yeah. Read Vineland.

[B]

God, that's so sick. Wait, now you're making me yearn for it.

[A]

Why did I pronounce Vineland like Grantland Vinland?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I. I noted that.

[A]

I noted that with interest.

[B]

Just the other thing, before we get in the conversation, the show, I don't know if everyone's having the same reaction to the show as this specifically, but like, we talked last week about how the longer running times, just for me anyway, hit different. Like, I just enjoy. I'm enjoying the pace of the show. And one of the reasons why I enjoy the pace of the show is that this episode, for example, is shaped a certain way. You're expecting fireworks at the end, which don't actually come in the way you predict that they're gonna come. But even so, Brad is so talented at, I think, feeding people either what they want or what they don't even realize they need tonally. So that we're building up all this anticipation for the park stakeout. And then not only do we get the misdirect with the couple and the dog, we get Lizzie saying, you know, how do I get cool patches? And I'm gonna call you Bullseye.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is just such a nice mood lightener in that moment. It's just being conducted very well. And I think that kind of execution comes from. Not to be infer too much from like one evening with these people, but I think that you can draw a straight line from the balance and the rhythm of the show to the way these people clearly collaborated.

[A]

I think also, like, even the moments where you could say it seems like Robbie could have called Bartos the truck driver, that seems like a text message. Like, cool, can you meet me? I'll venmo you, whatever. But it sets up, first of all, Robbie, I think they don't know who to trust. Yeah, they're. They're trying to do this as much in person as possible. And B, he has not thought this through. Like, he's got this kid with him and he doesn't really seem to know exactly what to do as this kid's caretaker. This kid is now becoming wise to the fact that there was something very strange going on.

[B]

He saw Some stuff.

[A]

And on top of that, I thought that whole situation where he disappears and then this guy sees a kid in the creek and is like, what the hell is going on? Brought out a different side of Robbie than the one we've seen. And obviously this dude has a rage streak.

[B]

Do you think that Maeve would have been more on board with the plan if Robbie had said, this guy Bartos is a truck driver, he's going to drive us to Canada. And then instead of pulling out a pamphlet, he pulled out a large leather bound book of photos of Bartos, Bartos truck of like all the rest stops between there and Canada, and one of them labeled escape route in case of trouble.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, do you think that would have helped?

[A]

I love that. Maeve's like, I don't want to do that.

[B]

That sounds dumb.

[A]

I'm not. I didn't do anything that requires me to leave like this. Like, if anything, I want to go to fucking Brooklyn, you know?

[B]

Like, that is literally what my older daughter said to me last week when I suggested mini golf like this. Leaving this house was not part of our negotiation. I refuse.

[A]

Anything else on task this week?

[B]

No.

[A]

On Thursday, I think we'll do a little bit of a slow horses catch up.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

We could do some lowdown. Anything else that you're enjoying watching? It's really about you.

[B]

Well, we haven't really talked about it, but I think English Teacher has been great so far this season. I mean, so far they dumped the whole thing. I've only watched a couple. And you, sneaky guy, you jumped. Platonic. That was the show that Kya and I covered.

[A]

I know. I couldn't handle being left out.

[B]

And then you finished the season. I haven't even done that yet.

[A]

My wife was just homesick one day and was just, like, running through all of Platonic. And I was like, this is pretty fun.

[B]

Great show.

[A]

All right, so let's get into our conversation that we had at Vidiot's last night. After screening of the fourth episode, you'll hear from Brad Inglesby, the creator writer of the show, Sally Richardson Whitfield, who directed 34 and the upcoming sixth episode, and of course, Tom Pelfrey, who plays Robbie. And Mark Ruffalo, who apparently was the Hulk. And I was surprised to see a lot of people asking him to sign stuff. And I was like, are you guys Zodiac fans? Like, what's going on? And I was like, oh, yeah, that dude is in eight of the biggest movies of all time.

[B]

You did to see the guy with the Funko pop of Mark Ruffalo and you can count on me.

[A]

I know.

[B]

It's like, it's like young Mark Ruffalo on a parkway sign.

[A]

My spotlight jacket. No Mark Ruffalo. These guys were all great. I hope you enjoy it. I think you can also watch it, right? You can also watch it. The crew is awesome to come out and film and record all this. We will be back on Thursday running through some other shows that are on and we'll talk to you soon. This episode is brought to you by Pretty Litter. Living with more than one cat means you've got double the cuddles and double the litter duty. But Pretty Litter makes things so much easier. Not only does it control odors and lasts longer than other litter, it also keeps you ahead of health issues. The color changing crystals actually flag fluctuations in your cat's urine. How about that? Plus, Pretty Litter ships free right to your door. So no heavy bags to carry and no last minute pet store runs right now. Save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy at PrettyLitter.com watch. That's PrettyLitter.com watch. To save 20% on your first order, get a free cat toy. Pretty litter.com watch. Pretty litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. C site for details. I'm Chris Ryan.

[B]

Oh, I'm Andy Greenwald.

[A]

Thank you so much for coming out for this special screening of Tascul. Without further ado, let me bring everybody out here. First of all, the creator of Task, Brad Inglesby, the director of the episode you just watched, plus several others from the season, Sally Richardson Whitfield, and of course, the stars of the show, Mark Ruffalo and Tom Belfry. Thank you guys. Thanks so much for doing this. Thanks for coming out. What an amazing show. Give yourselves a round of applause, everybody, for everybody involved with Task.

[C]

Thank you for having us, guys. It's really. I really appreciate it.

[A]

This is sort of unique. We don't usually get to do like a middle mid season screening. Check in with the cast. This is kind of awesome. It's usually for a first episode or a last episode. It makes asking questions a little bit difficult because we don't want you guys to feel like you're in spoiler territory. So I'll keep it broad with you, Brad. To start with, it's such a balancing act, I would imagine, in assembling the show in terms of its structure because you've got a whodunit. You've got two characters on a collision course, multiple mole hunts now. But you've also got all these human character beats. That I think, is what is bonding people to the show in the first place. So can you talk to me a little bit about assembling something that's got all these genre elements, but also this human drama?

[C]

It's something that we struggle with sometimes in the edit. Really. Chris is trying to keep a balance, but it really is always about the characters. And I think whenever we're in the edit or even in the writing process where we feel like the plot is overwhelming the show in some way, I always have to stop and check myself and say, what is the show really about? It's about these characters and it's about the emotional arcs of the characters and never letting the plot have to take over that part of the show. And yet we also have to move the plot along. There needs to be an engine. There needs to be a moment where the audience gets to the end of the episode and they want to keep going. And so I think it is a balancing act. And I think I have to put myself and the viewers shoes in the edit, in the writing process and say, you know, what is the right amount of emotion and plot? And I have to ask myself, you know, am I able to care about these characters and are we servicing the plot? So it's kind of a bit of trial and error, really, of just saying, are we on the right path and are we not losing sight of what the show's really about?

[B]

That said, Brad, you may have tipped your hand a little bit in this episode. And I'm sure Eagle Eyed Philadelphia Eagle Eyed viewers would notice that over the course of this season, when things were going relatively decently for the characters, they were drinking Yingling. This episode, they seem to exclusively be drinking Rolling Rock. So I'm wondering what you were saying about the emotional narrative power of our favorite watery domestic lagers.

[C]

I didn't even notice that, Andy. I can't take any credit for that one. I really can't.

[B]

Mark noticed.

[A]

I could tell for Tom and Mark how crucial. I mean, this goes without saying, but how crucial was filming in Delco, filming in the greater Philadelphia area, not only defining the literal accents and voices of the characters, but also for building out maybe backstories, biographies. I mean, did you find yourself immersing yourselves in Philadelphia high schools and learning a little bit about local history? How did that work?

[B]

It will be a quiz after.

[E]

Just to be clear, this is a Quiz. You know, just. There's just something you can never get by shooting in a place that isn't where you're actually located in a show. It's just everywhere you look. It's the light, it's the feeling, it's the cars, it's the stores, it's the people. And it's always. I mean, if you let it, it will always be informing you, and it's the food. I started with a fake belly.

[B]

And.

[E]

That just kept getting bigger and bigger as my real belly underneath, it was getting bigger and bigger. My wife came to visit me, and she said to my family, well, your father's eating his way through Philly. So it's. Yeah, that was my. I did a tour of the Philly food, and that was. That ended up being my character's biggest.

[B]

Anything particular you couldn't quit?

[E]

What is it? A pork sandwich.

[A]

A pork sandwich.

[E]

Broccoli rabe. That was crazy. That's the one I'm. Oh, not in this episode, but in one episode, I'm just plowing a sandwich. And that was just. I just had no idea the camera was running during that.

[B]

And, Tom, you're not from Philly. You're from Jersey originally, which we'll forgive for the sake of this day. That's what we should. We all want.

[A]

I love it.

[F]

I love it. When you live far enough north in New Jersey, everybody treats you like you're another borough of New York. And then you live far enough south in New Jersey, and they think it's just an extension of Philadelphia. Like, we do have an actual state. We're all proud to live there.

[B]

We're proud to be from there. So congratulations on Jackson Dart. But beyond that, one of the crazy things about the show is discovering how many of the members of the cast are not from America at all and are adopting this accent. I was wondering if you felt like a regional ambassador in welcoming people and trying to hit the ropes.

[E]

My entire group, the whole task force, was not American.

[F]

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

[B]

Yeah.

[F]

I mean, it was. It was. It was amazing.

[B]

To your.

[F]

To your question about filming in the area, you know, it reminded me so much where I grew up, you know, like. And, like, the vibe on set was great. Like, the crew is just constantly busting my chops, you know, like, that's what I'm used to being. The way of showing affection and knowing that you're safe is like, if.

[B]

If.

[F]

If you can make fun of me, then we care about each other.

[A]

Yeah.

[F]

You know, like, this is a Safe space. And that's, like, such a particular east coast thing. I remember taking that out west when I was younger, and it didn't really go well.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Why is this guy such an. Yeah, literally.

[B]

Literally, like, wow, man, he's aggressive.

[F]

It's like, oh, I. Okay, I love you. Yeah, Yeah, I love you. But, you know, so. And then, yeah, the Brit. I mean, they really. They really caught it amazingly well, didn't they?

[E]

My wife, whose watches intently could not believe that the entire task team was either British or Irish or South African.

[B]

Sally, you arrived, like, literally into Brad's backyard to take on work on the show. I was wondering what the tone meetings were like between you, and was there a location that he took you to or a place that you visited that served as kind of a eureka moment for you to unlock your own understanding of the visual palette of the show?

[D]

Well, I'd have to say that I've seen every piece of woods.

[E]

In all of Pennsylvania.

[D]

Yes, all of Pennsylvania. That really was some of my episodes and later on really take place outside of the city and really had to explore my dp. Ellie is here for my episode.

[E]

Ellie.

[D]

And I'm pretty sure that we've lost a year or two of our life from the amount of bug spray that we had. Counter and poison ivy that we walked through. Ed And Tib.

[E]

Lyme disease.

[D]

Lyme disease. This one. But I think, you know, obviously. And, oh, I love to say that every single home we went to was either a relative of Brad or a teacher who taught with them. And so I think a lot of those people really welcomed me into the community very much. And I really learned a lot about Philly from them and from obviously hanging around with Brad.

[A]

But you had, like, that amazing moment in three with Maeve baptizing or showing Sam how to swim. And that's such a gorgeous moment. And that's the thing about Philly that's weird, is like, you'll be city, city, city. Blink your eyes, and you were in the, like, the middle of the woods.

[D]

We searched and searched and searched for that particular spot that turned out to be the perfect place.

[A]

Yeah, that's one of my favorite moments of the series so far.

[B]

To Mark and Tom. So far, you have not crossed paths on the show. How siloed were you during production? Were you checking for each other's dailies? Were you trying to track the other performance to meet each other midway or.

[D]

You'Re in deep competition?

[B]

What's he up to?

[E]

What's he doing in that? I would have played that Differently.

[B]

No way.

[E]

He's amazing. We literally would be. I think we only saw each other in passing, and we'd just be like, ugh.

[F]

Mark told me the other day we had to do press for something. Mark told me the other day that before we even met, he watched me leave my trailer to go to set, and he could tell from about 100 yards away that I had ADHD.

[B]

Yeah, his pat in the pockets.

[E]

Oh. Oh, I have it on.

[A]

I said, you could tell.

[F]

He goes, oh, buddy.

[B]

I love this guy.

[F]

No, we.

[B]

We.

[F]

It was never on purpose. We just kind of didn't see each other.

[E]

We were in two totally different shows.

[F]

I know, I know.

[E]

What's crazy is we don't ever actually meet in the show. Spoilers.

[B]

Wait, without spoiling, Is Marvel watching? But, Brad, how much? Again, no spoilers, obviously, but did you feel pressure in crafting these two characters? Cross scene.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So I think that the whole show is really structured as a collision course. And I think what we talked about was if that's the structure of the show and that's the engine of the show and the tension of the show, and not just for these two guys in the show. I think it's for. If we've done our job. It was always our hope that you care about everybody in the show. And so the tension is, oh, God, I know this is gonna be a collision, and I'm scared. I'm scared to see what's gonna happen. And if that's the structure of the show, and every week you're telling the audience they're getting a little closer, a little closer. You have to pay it off. And the audience has to be satisfied with exactly what happens when the collision comes. So I felt immense pressure. And Sally and I spoke about this. I won't spoil anything, but this is something we always, always talked about was if that's the structure of a show, we have to pay it off. You know, if we've been leading the audience along that these two are gonna meet eventually, it had better be worth the wait.

[A]

Do they meet in a diner, just the two of them?

[C]

Well, that was one that. I think that was one location we knew we had to avoid.

[A]

Chris.

[B]

You know, Lanark Diner's right there.

[A]

I have to admit, we shot in Lanark Diner.

[B]

I know. It's my.

[A]

The way that this was described to me, however, many years ago, when this was first starting to come around and somebody was just like, it's heat in Philly. And I had to check that there were not hidden cameras around to make Sure. I wasn't getting punked. I want to talk to you a little bit about some of the genre elements of the show because this episode sort of concludes in this really tense 20 minute sequence that involves the park situation and then also the road. I can't wait to find out where you guys shot the cliff stuff. But it's confusing. It's confusing for the characters. And I think it's confusing as a first pass as an audience member. And you have trust in the show that it's gonna resolve itself and everything. But, like, how do you guys, Sally and Brad decide? This is how much the audience knows, this is how much the characters know, and this is how much we have to keep held back until future episodes.

[D]

I think that some of that came out in editing and we really spent the time to grab extra looks from people, other people, you know, thinking so that we could maybe come back and tease you guys a little bit. Is it her? Is it him? And I think that a lot of that is in editing, don't you think? I mean, obviously you've set it up, but just figuring out how we're gonna lay it out later and having different. At least that's my job. Give Brad lots of different choices so we can figure out how we really want to weave this together at the very end.

[C]

I think Sally's onto it and she does such a wonderful job of giving us tons of pieces. It's true, she has amazing storyboards and she's way ahead of us on set. But I think that is the idea is to have more in the edit. And so when you get to a sequence like this one, you play it a few ways and then you put yourself in the seat of the viewer and go, is the viewer ahead of us? Are they behind us? Is the tension still there? It's the order of revelation. When are things revealed? And that's something we did in Mayor a lot, and it's something we do in this show a lot is just when you reveal things as opposed to what you reveal. It's when you reveal them. And I think that this is a good sequence that explains that or is just like, when do you reveal that Cliff isn't where he's supposed to be? And I think that's just watching it in trial and error and see which version of the sequence is playing. We did a lot of versions of the sequence. We did a lot. And sometimes you just gotta watch it a few times and go, is this the best version of the sequence that's hitting the emotional beats and the Surprises.

[B]

Do you have any extra footage of the couple who lost their dog?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't want to tell you how to do your job, but did you ever consider just.

[D]

I was very happy that people laughed at that because you never know.

[A]

I can't remember. What do you think they talked about when they got home that night? It's just like, maybe dog ownership is not worth it.

[E]

They never found that dog. Yeah.

[B]

Damn shame what they did. That's season two.

[E]

Is you guys looking for the Maybe season two. Hbo.

[B]

One of my favorite things about the show, and this is definitely a compliment to you, Brad, is that the show always validates the internal struggle of these two characters. They have had really, really, really wildly hard things happen to them. But the show also doesn't shy away from the actual consequences of that internal struggle, that there's a responsibility for that behavior. And without getting too into the weeds of preparation or adhd, I wonder, both of you guys like Mark as an actor, how do you bring Tom's home struggle, what's going on in his personal life, to work with him as he has to manage these kids in the workplace? Just as an actor, how do you carry that into those scenes?

[E]

It's just like our lives. We're always carrying our home life everywhere we go. Tom's home life is just. It's eminently part of his existence. And it's on the forefront for a long time until Sam is gone. Until we realize that Sam's been kidnapped. There's a lot of duplicating. You know, he's looking for this boy, and his boy is gone. And he's, you know, trying to put hold together this task force of misfits, and his family's. This task force of misfits. I mean, Brad does this really beautifully, and it's constantly informing things. But by the way, Sylvie Vacari, who plays my daughter Emily, is here.

[C]

Sylvia, stand up.

[E]

Where are you?

[A]

Sylvia, stand up.

[D]

Sylvia. Sylvia, stand up. Sylvia.

[A]

Bravo.

[E]

Amazing. So, yeah, and then she comes to work with me when I do. She's here with me now.

[B]

And to you, Tom. I was wondering, one of the incredibly compelling things about Robby is that he does have this almost sweethearted belief in the future that he deserves. And I wondered how much of that was tied to the fact that he's spent a decade or more hauling other people's garbage, and yet he still believes that he deserves something better than that. Just curious how you balance that, like the moment, particularly. We could talk in this episode. That is so heartbreaking. The dance you know, it is agonizing to watch, but I wondered, as you play it, do you have to play that? He believes he's going to take her to the dance so that they will have another opportunity to get a million.

[A]

Dollars in a trip to Canada.

[F]

Well, there's two parts to that. One is, you know, this is how we all get out of bed in the morning, isn't it? We all hope that there's better days ahead. I mean, I hope we all do. For all of us, for ourselves, for everybody else. Like, I think that's the reason that Robbie's so relatable, is because we all have that. You know, even sometimes you have a bad day or maybe a bad month, but, like, it comes. It comes back around, you know, it always comes back around. And as far as that dance goes. Yeah, I don't know. I'll say this about it. I got to become a father two and a half years ago. Yeah, it's the wildest, the greatest thing ever, ever, ever by a million times. And being around those kids now, getting to play. I've played characters before or have kids, but, like, knowing what it means now, like, the infinite depth of the meaning that you could only guess at before makes everything so rich. Regardless of what's happening in the show, one thing I never had a single question about was, would you do this for your kids? The answer, Fuck, yeah. Oh, yeah. Anything, you know?

[A]

But there's an incredible balance to that scene, which is the dance, which is the scene with Maeve where he kind of presents this Canada dream. And she asks all the questions a parent would ask a kid who was like, guess what? I'm going on a road trip. And you're just like, okay, where are you gonna sleep? How are you gonna eat? How are you gonna pay for gas? And it's like, she's just like, where are the kids gonna go to school? Like, where are we gonna buy groceries? And that's. I mean, you and Amelia have such an incredible thing in this series, but that moment. Can you just tell me a little bit about playing and Robbie's dreams kind of coming down to earth there?

[E]

Yeah.

[F]

You know, it's really interesting that you bring that scene up. Cause that was truly, actually one of the hardest ones for me. Do you remember. Do you remember how much I was tripping that day?

[D]

Well, yeah, because you're trying to. Well, no, you're just trying to balance. Like, you have so many places that you need to get to, and where are we going Too far? Am I giving too much up? Now.

[F]

And how much do you fight exactly?

[B]

Yeah.

[F]

No. Cause obviously, Sally was directing that day, and that was, strangely, a scene that I struggled a lot with in a way that I didn't with some other scenes. And to your point. Yes. You know, it's so interesting sometimes, like, when you think about.

[B]

Right.

[F]

Like, acting. I'd be an acting nerd right now real quick. But you think about an acting relationship, and it's not a literal thing. So. Maeve's my niece, but my relationship to Maeve is often mom, which doesn't make any literal sense. But when I'm playing scenes with her, I often just give over to.

[B]

What.

[F]

Arises if I act like she's my mom.

[A]

Yeah.

[F]

And that's what we do in life, too. We just don't think about it. We have an acting relationship with people that's not the same as our literal. So you really want to try and find that. The last thing I'll say about that is, how fucking good is Amelia? She is. She is so talented. She is so incredible. I mean, the way that girl works, the way she shows up prepared, the way she. And she's such a light and a delight. Like, so impressive.

[A]

Yeah, those scenes pop for sure.

[B]

Sally, you've had a long career as a director, and you've directed all kinds of genres, including Los Angeles basketball, genre. I wondered, how do you approach scenes like the ones we're talking about now? Just to stay with it in terms of directing, intimacy and comfort, you know, it's very different than the scale that you're sometimes asked to do, even within a show like this.

[D]

That's hard because, I mean, obviously Brad is set up. You know, the words are there. So sometimes it's actually kind of easy. I mean, I have beautiful words. I have two great actors who've done their job, and my job is just to sort of gently glide, you know, guide them to the right spot.

[E]

And not always gently.

[D]

Not. Someone doesn't like continuity.

[A]

Is this another sandwich thing? Or what is it, Tom?

[D]

No, but really, I mean, I was an actress for many years before I did this, so I really. I don't come to any scene with any expectations. And sometimes I'll have actors who will ask me for notes before they even start. Not these people, but, you know, before they even start. Say anything for me. I'm like, no, I don't know what you're gonna. And I really have to watch the performance. And for me, it's a feeling inside and knowing if I feel it and if I believe it. A lot of Times with Mark, he'd come up and go, what do you think? And he would always know. Because sometimes I don't know what to tell you, but I just know it's not right yet. And you know it's not right yet.

[E]

That's why I was asking you.

[D]

Yeah, I know. So we're both. And we're both going, it's not right. It's not right. I don't know.

[E]

Should we do it again?

[D]

I think we should do it again.

[E]

Okay, let's do it one more time.

[D]

But sometimes that is it, or sometimes it's one word or asking a question. I think a lot of times I would just ask you a question.

[E]

And I go, oh, yeah.

[D]

Cause by asking a question, then you start, oh, yeah, you're right. Okay. Yeah, I haven't thought about that.

[E]

Especially when the question is, don't you think that could be better?

[D]

But I mean, it's just a very hard. I think I just let them guide me and then I know what to tell them. And sometimes it's just simply, you know. Can you do that faster?

[E]

That was a big one for me.

[D]

Yeah, you like that note, don't you? Can you just do that faster?

[E]

I know exactly what you want.

[A]

I was asking Tom. I was saying to him outside of the theater that this seems like the kind of thing that if he wasn't in, he would be watching. Like, it's the kind of, like, crime show, awesome, like, piece of crime storytelling. And Mark, you were in one of my favorite crime films. Collater. I was in Los Angeles.

[E]

Thank you.

[A]

I wish you bring that goatee back. It was sick. The slicked back hair. It was awesome. I was wondering if you had any.

[E]

That was me and Collateral.

[A]

Anyone, like on the panel, honestly, if there were any reference points from whether it was other series or other films that you were like, this is the kind of thing we're looking for. Because the show has a very unique feel, but also as like, you know, points where it echoes, you know, maybe some classic crime films.

[C]

I mean, I think for me it was structurally, Heat was an influence there. But I think the. I think the movie that spoke to me and it's the reason we have Okorie was Breaking Away. I don't know why, but that's a movie I grew up watching all the time. It still resonates with me. It's about friendship and it's why we have a quarry in the show is I've always wanted to tell a story like Breaking Away that was about friendship. And I really Think Robbie and Cliff's story is a story of friendship. So I think that was an influence on me in terms of the crime story. You know, Heat was there. I think the Town was another one that. It kind of plays in a similar arena, I think.

[A]

And then, you know, and then just.

[C]

Trying to keep the emotion in the front of the piece, you know, so embrace the genre expectations while also trying to subvert it. And I think that's what we did in Mayor too. We wrapped our arms around the whodunit, but we also tried to go a little deeper with the characters and the relationships within the community. So I think those are. I mean, strangely, Breaking Away was a big influence on me, especially for the Robbie storyline.

[A]

That's awesome. I never would have thought that.

[E]

That's great.

[A]

They gotta reboot Breaking Away, but the cyclists are robbing stash houses.

[C]

I'm in.

[E]

Who throws their pump into his spokes? Jamie's.

[B]

So Brad on the. Sorry, I don't know that one. Oh, God. On the podcast a couple weeks ago when the show premiered, I was, as we often are these weeks, finding different ways to compliment you in your writing. And there was one thing in specific that I said on the pod that I'd like to bring up again here, which is I was reading a novel recently, and there's a character who teaches literature, and she says the advice that she tells her students is make it worse, not in terms of quality, but make everyone's situation the most extreme version of it. So you can really see the stakes here, and you are exceptional at that. Everything is terrible. Without spoiling things, I wondered if you could talk a little bit about how you would grade yourself on how bad you made it in the episodes still to come. And you guys can chime in as well.

[C]

I mean, on the episodes still to come, you're saying anything.

[B]

Well, you could give us both sides, the A side and the B side.

[C]

So I always think a question I ask myself when I'm starting to write something is, why are we dropping in at this point in a character's life? Why right now? And I think I can answer that for every character in the show. I think I can say, why are we coming into Lizzie's life right now?

[B]

Right.

[C]

Why are we coming into Grasso's? Why are we coming into Aaliyah's? And so I like to play that game in the case of Tom and Robbie. Yet they're both going through a crisis of faith in some way. Tom's is a more overt crisis of faith. He's Quite literally lost his faith. Robbie's is, he has a faith. It's just quite a different faith. And so I think I made things as painful for both of them as I possibly could.

[A]

And I think what I like about.

[C]

That is that it gives them a wider arc, I would say, and I felt that way about the character of Mair, too, is that I had to start her in a place of a lot of pain in order to get some level of healing at the end. And I think I like to have big arcs for characters in a show, and so in order to get.

[B]

A.

[C]

Greater distance, you have to start them in a slightly lower place. In this case, they're both. So I would say a plus for the pain. I put on these characters, all the.

[A]

Characters in the show, really.

[D]

But I think that's what I loved about it was so much, is that I feel like that's why people can relate to it so much. I don't find it that much different than people's reality. Maybe we don't have murder happening, but we've all been through terribly awful things in our life, and we're jumping into that in this film at that time. So I think that's why I enjoyed it so much, that I feel it so deeply on an emotional level. And it was wonderful to be able to get such great words to direct Tom.

[A]

I mean, when it's this incredibly pivotal moment in a character's life, but also seeming like every scene is he's going through an absolute gauntlet. Like, Robbie is like, are you almost like, good, let's just jump in it. I don't need 10 scenes where I'm just doing exposition and walk around like I like being in this. Or is it, is it daunting?

[F]

I want to get in there. Yeah, I, I, I mean, when you're in there with, with, with Brad and with Sally and Jeremiah, you stay in there all day and you get in there and you're with people who understand what they're doing and understand that all of it is in service of the story. And you do that and you leave it at work and then you go home in a good mood, you know, like it. Everything about the process was a joy, even the painful parts. And that's what happens when you're around really talented people who, who know how to, how to, you know, run the ship kind of. But no, I, I'll, you know, I'm, I'm comfortable there.

[A]

I think we can wrap up there. Guys, thank you so much for participating in this tonight. Mark, Tom, Sally, Brad, thank you so much for Andy and I thank you. Thank you to everybody for coming coming out. Thank you to Vidiots, kcrw and you can watch or listen to this on the WATCH feed tomorrow at some point.

[B]

Yeah, Go birds.