‘Task’ Is Barreling Toward the End

Summary

‘Task’ Is Barreling Toward the End – The Watch (The Ringer)

Hosts: Chris Ryan & Andy Greenwald
Air Date: October 6, 2025
Episode Focus: In this episode of The Watch, Chris and Andy break down episode five (“Vagrants”) of the TV show Task, exploring its intense character moments, narrative pace, and distinctive sense of place as the limited series approaches its finale.

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Episode Overview

Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald, with their trademark affectionate banter, dive deep into the penultimate storytelling beats of Task. This week’s discussion centers on character collisions (especially between Robbie and Tom), how the show's structure masterfully balances plot and human drama, and what sets Task apart from other crime dramas. Their conversation, rich with personal anecdotes and references, underscores the show's regional authenticity and emotional stakes.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The “Vagrants” Episode and Its Narrative Strategy

• Cliffhanger Storytelling:

  • The episode ends at a pivotal, anticipated meeting between Robbie (Tom Pelphrey) and Tom (Mark Ruffalo), characters who have circled each other all season ([01:51]–[02:15]).
  • Chris: "They cut it, and they'd have a cliffhanger at the most amazing moment at the end of this episode, which is called Vagrants." [01:46]

• Balancing Human Element and Genre Thrills:

  • The hosts praise Brad Inglesby’s commitment to giving equal weight to action and character psychology.
  • Andy: “What is this character's arc and journey? What are they getting out of this experience... as well as: what if we put Heat in Delco?” [02:11–02:27]

• Narrative Pace and Timing:

  • Brad Inglesby likened to a "long-distance runner" with "a sixth sense of the distance left to run"—the storytelling rhythm is expertly modulated to keep all major character and plot revelations engaging ([05:11]–[06:15]).
  • Andy: “Watching the way this seven-episode season has been constructed, to me is a masterclass in the writing version of that sixth sense. Brad is pushing all the right buttons at all the right times.” [05:11–06:15]

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Character Deep Dives

• Robbie (Tom Pelphrey):

  • Pelphrey’s performance is repeatedly hailed as a highlight, especially in scenes illustrating Robbie’s unraveling and isolation.
  • Chris: “There’s this moment where Perry refers to Robbie as Crazy Robbie… that's really all you need to know about the character.” [08:22–08:33]
  • The dynamic between Robbie and his brother Billy is speculated to have anchored Robbie's sanity; Billy's absence leaves Robbie spinning out ([09:16–09:26]).

• Tom (Mark Ruffalo):

  • Ruffalo's portrayal as a “non-action hero”—older, tired, out of his element—adds realism.
  • Chris: “When you watch cops and robber shows, you’re assuming that what you’re going to see is Popeye Doyle or Vincent Hanna…but Tom’s not that.” [35:36–36:15]
  • The moment Tom begs to call his kids is described as “a really beautiful moment where he’s just like... man, let me call my kids.” [36:15–36:27]

• Grasso and Jason Dynamics:

  • Grasso’s conflicted behavior around Jason hints at a complex backstory and moral ambiguity:
    • Andy: "He is attempting to connect himself to Tom's story in the sense that he also feels like he's a fallen angel...[but] he's a bit further down in the muck than Tom is." [22:38–23:09]

• Supporting Characters:

  • Smaller roles, such as Rhae’s wife (Mickey Sumner) and Perry’s girlfriend, are praised for grounding the show in emotional reality with memorable performances ([10:44–11:06], [34:23]).

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Thematic Motifs: Home, Place, and Lost Time

• Sense of Place:

  • The specificity of the Pennsylvania setting—references to local hospitals, diners, and even Bushkill Falls—is celebrated as key to the show's authenticity ([12:22–13:26], [17:09–18:59]).
  • Andy: “…in addition to the beautiful production and acting and writing, it has the two things that matter most… diamond sharp specificity… and generosity of spirit that gives humanity to every character.” [12:22–13:26]

• Storytelling as Myth:

  • The show’s central narrative—a man trying to return home—draws from mythic, almost Odyssean storytelling traditions ([15:27–15:49]).
  • Chris: “This story could only be told here… but the story is... the story we've been telling ourselves since the Odyssey.” [15:24–15:29]

• Recurring Visual and Emotional Motifs:

  • Birds, the Lehigh River, and returning to childhood spaces metaphorically represent characters seeking home or meaning ([30:32–31:47]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If Robbie had killed Tom… I would have said, holy shit. But I also would have leaned in and been interested.” – Andy ([06:19])
• “Having a motorcycle gang president think that he’s Crazy Robbie… is like, yeah, this guy’s got… maybe he’s the kind of guy who thinks you can just run away to Canada with a million dollars in fentanyl money and a family that’s not really yours.” – Chris ([08:32–09:02])
• "It’s the humanity… This is a show with a body count but that respects the severity and finality of death." – Andy ([24:25])
• “Photographs are doing a lot of heavy lifting in the show. I’m not mad at it…it’s really hard to write stuff that connects dots…” – Chris ([25:33])
• “I’ve kidnapped the world’s most depressing human.” – Robbie, paraphrased by Andy, highlighting the show’s dark humor ([38:49–39:09])
• "It was worth it. That kind of collision… there's a feeling of freedom. I think when you feel a show say, fuck it, we’re here. We’re at the point where this needs to happen." – Andy ([34:52–35:25])

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Important Timestamps and Segments

| Time | Segment / Topic | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:10 | Opening impressions, expectations for gunplay and action | | 02:27 | Discussion on show’s human element vs. action | | 05:09 | Praise for the narrative structure and pacing | | 07:22 | Pelphrey’s performance, “big meeting” between Robbie & Tom | | 10:44 | Supporting characters’ humanity | | 12:22 | Value of regional specificity in storytelling | | 15:24 | Story’s mythic, universal arc | | 22:38 | Grasso and Tom’s moral parallels | | 30:32 | Recurring bird/home/homecoming motifs | | 34:39 | Tom & Robbie: authenticity in their confrontation | | 35:36 | Tom’s everyman qualities, subverted expectations | | 38:49 | Robbie’s bleak humor, converging factions |

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Other Memorable Details

• Personal Anecdotes:

  • Andy shares stories of childhood visits to Bushkill Falls, reinforcing the discussion about place ([17:09–19:38]).

• Meta-Commentary:

  • The hosts call out their own Philly-centric bias but argue the show’s specificity works because it’s so grounded and generous—even for non-locals ([12:22–13:26]).
  • Comparisons to other TV (notably Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Heat) help situate Task within a tradition of character-led crime drama ([15:49–16:53], [35:23–36:15]).

• Speculation:

  • The hosts avoid overt predictions but note all the storylines are converging for a dramatic final collision in the Pennsylvania woods ([37:02–38:23]).

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Tone and Style

• Warm and banter-heavy: The episode features typical Chris and Andy camaraderie, regional in-jokes, and sports talk detours.
• Emotionally invested: The hosts’ Philadelphia backgrounds inform, but do not limit, their deep appreciation of Inglesby’s storytelling.
• Respectful of the show’s intelligence: They avoid armchair quarterbacking, instead emphasizing how Task trusts the audience and prioritizes emotional truth over cheap twists.

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Summary

This episode of The Watch offers a rich, enthusiastic breakdown of Task episode five, “Vagrants.” Chris and Andy celebrate the show’s storytelling craft, emotional resonance, and sense of place. With pointed observations about acting, structure, and theme, their conversation situates Task among present-day prestige crime dramas, making the episode’s nuances and stakes accessible even to listeners unfamiliar with the series.
Highly recommended for fans of sharp TV criticism and character-driven storytelling.

Transcript

[A]

I need support staff to clear the room.

[B]

Stand up and walk now.

[A]

Hello, and welcome to the Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] and joining me in the studio, my vagrant bird has come home. It's Andy Greenwald, Right?

[B]

Hold on. I'm just rubbing a little.

[A]

A little. Just so your heart doesn't feel.

[B]

Just a little cold water.

[A]

I don't know if that works.

[B]

You know me. I'm pretty emo.

[A]

I cannot wait to get to the bottom with Brad Inglesby at some point about whether that trick works.

[B]

Well, the thing is.

[A]

Heart exploding. Is that like a. Like a loose term for it, or is it.

[B]

Here's why. It's a winning strategy. If it ever didn't work, we wouldn't know. We wouldn't know. We don't have that testimony.

[A]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

It has 100%.

[A]

It's on the other side, that information. Greenwald, great to see you. It's Monday. We're here to talk about Task episode five.

[B]

To be fair, it's not Monday. We are recording this.

[A]

We're doing this a little bit in advance. We've got some personal travel coming up. Um, but we wanted to make sure that we had our. Our recap episode all locked down. And, boy, oh, boy, this is an interesting one, broadly speaking.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I. First of all, let me just say I loved this episode.

[B]

Okay. Thank God.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was worried you were about to zag on me.

[A]

I was just gonna say that, broadly speaking, if someone perhaps wearing a hockey mask and a bulletproof, recreational, bulletproof vest were to come up to me, one of my hitters.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they were like, hey, man, like, I thought there was going to be some. Some More gun talk in this episode. I thought we were going to. It was going to culminate you. Well, I think we're you. I think that the way that they did it is essentially like cutting. They cut it, and they'd have a cliffhanger at the most amazing moment at the end of this episode, which is called Vagrants.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And which finds Robbie and Tom finally meeting the Ruffalo Pel Free conversation that we've been waiting all season for.

[B]

Just a week ago, Mark Ruffalo told characters never cross paths.

[A]

But this is basically what I think Inglesby does very well and what the show is on a mission to do, which is to put on equal footing and equal standing. The. The human element of the show.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

The. What is this character's arc and journey? What are they getting out of this experience. What are you getting out of this experience? Watching them as well as. What if we put heat in Delco?

[B]

I am interested that you found this episode to be more bark than bite, even a little bit.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

In terms of expectations of what you.

[A]

Were, I think people might think that.

[B]

Oh, this is how you stay. This is Vice President Ryan.

[A]

Yeah. People have been telling me I just said if a guy came up to me and was just like, damn, dude. I thought they were gonna get after it. I mean, like they've been. They're on the way to the table.

[B]

Tears in his eyes. Sir, Sir. I thought they were gonna get after it. In Chris Ryan's America, people don't get after it anymore.

[A]

No.

[B]

Because everyone's fine. I had that feeling more about the previous week because it was all tying. It was all heading towards the park and I thought the park was going to be some big event. I was thrilled with this episode mainly because the only fireworks I was hyper invested in was Robbie happening right here. My heart was exploding with Tom and Robby crossing paths. Yeah. When we spoke to a bunch of the creatives last week at Vidiot's and Brad said that, you know, he took that very seriously. You made the joke. I was right behind you with a follow up joke if necessary. That. Was he going to do it in a diner?

[A]

I think that was your joke that I stole.

[B]

But we were, we were reading from.

[A]

Each other's play sheets.

[B]

Oh, that's true. I thought that was pretty good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That was kind of like the best case scenario of Liam Cohen and Robert Sala. You know what I mean? It's all within the rules. We're all sniffing out each other's scheme.

[A]

I'm glad that we're the place to come for. For 8 day old coordinator beef for teams that we do not cheer for.

[B]

Can I tell you something? You've known me for a long time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And during the majority of our time knowing each other, you know that I am an absolute heart exploding sicko. For our local teams, but generally don't care about sports. This is the year something switched where I have now developed like, I think you've had this for a while. I now have kind of a cranial itch where I'm like, is there a game on right now? If only I could have a game on, just any kind of game, I would watch it. I have become the target audience for ESPN the Ocho in my Quaranta Ocho year.

[A]

I know because you're just like Blake Snell's. Arm slot analyst. That's crazy.

[B]

That dude really strikes a lot of people out. I turned that game on.

[A]

But you're, you're. I don't want to get too distracted, but your relationship to other teams is so pure. It's like a childlike kind of like, wow. Damn, he threw that ball far and.

[B]

He shot it out of the stadium. I turned on game one of Dodgers reds, like, when it was already six nothing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, this is for the real, like, seam heads.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

You and Greg Dooley.

[B]

Just focus. Anyway, anyway. Anyway. We were talking about fireworks. We were talking about heart exploding.

[A]

Let me say the Tom Robbie meeting.

[B]

Here's the thing that I admired most about this episode. Before we get into the specifics, I think that it's something that real long distance runners develop. I say real because I run all the time and I don't think I have this, which is a kind of innate sixth sense of the distance left to run. And you're aware of what's in your tank. You're aware of when you can push it. You're aware of when you might need to refuel. And you carry that rhythm with you from the starter's gun all the way through the finish line. Right. And watching the way this seven episode season has been constructed, to me is a masterclass in the writing version of that sixth sense. I feel like Brad is pushing all the right buttons at all the right times and bringing those characters together in an unexpected way early. Even though it is kind of late in the, you know, in the. In the scheme of the show, felt both surprising and natural that we are midway through the fifth episode and all the cards are on the table now. Like, everybody knows who was doing the robbery. Everybody's in search of people.

[A]

Everybody is also aware of who's been selling them out. Well, not everybody. We are aware of it.

[B]

The audience is now aware of it. And it feels so refreshing to be in the hands of a storyteller who knows when to hold em, knows when to fold em, and knows when to show the cards to advance the story that he wants to tell. And there are countless examples of shows that I feel like at this moment are either too precious with secrets or telegraphing too early that it's gonna be something bigger, be a cliffhanger, blow into something else entirely. This feels expert to me. And so much so that I had that secondary level of engagement with the show where if Robbie had killed Tom in that moment when he's walking him out of the Car. If Tom had taken a shot at Robbie at the end of at the. At the. At Water's Edge, I would have said, holy shit. But I also would have leaned in and been interested. Like, there was a version in my brain of a show where one of these two leads exited the show because there's so much still there that is such a sweet spot for the audience to be in. And it's very, very hard to shout out, liam Cohen, scheme that up from your desk two or three years before you even shoot the thing.

[A]

Well, here's the thing, too. It's like, maybe if this show was set in Cincinnati and had different actors.

[B]

Greg Dooley would still like it.

[A]

I'd be like, yo. Like, okay, let's go. Let's. Let's. Let's, like, get to the. Let's get to what we're getting to. But because it's Pel Free. And because of the way that he performs, especially for the last two episodes, but very specifically this episode and two scenes. One, the scene with Aaron where he finds out that Cliff's been killed, which you have seen in countless crime shows and crime movies, is the main character finds out that the. The walls are closing in, that the only partner he had is gone. That. That he's out of options. And the way that Pelfrey acts that moment, that revelation, because it's not just my friend died, it's the surrogate brother that was standing in for the brother that these guys also killed is now.

[B]

Gone in the same way.

[A]

Yes. And I think that, you know, there's this moment where Per Perry refers to Robbie as Crazy Robbie.

[B]

We've never heard that before.

[A]

And that's really all you need to know about the character. You know, I was thinking about, like, we don't know, does this guy like hockey? Does he like to go to the movies? Like, I don't really give a shit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like just having a motorcycle gang president think that he's Crazy Robbie. Incredible is like, yeah, this guy's got Maybe. Maybe he's a little like. Maybe he's the kind of guy who thinks you can just run away to Canada with a million dollars in fentanyl money and a family that's not really yours.

[B]

And it's such a smart. That's such a smart observation. Because we meet characters cold, and we believe what we are shown, or we imprint on them.

[A]

Because you and I are both like, enough. From the area of where he's from. They were like, oh, I won. And I wonder if he does that.

[B]

We kind of know this guy.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

What we don't know and what that one throwaway line from Perry suggests is that maybe Robbie and his brother were. Balanced each other out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe Billy was the together one. Maybe he was the planning one who in some ways anchored Robbie to a reality. And once he was taken off the board, that Robbie spun out. We don't know any of that. What was the. I have another moment of Pelfrey excellence that I feel is related. I don't know, the same one that you were thinking about.

[A]

I think that the scene in the car with to Robbie can go wrong or can become cliche so easily. Like you. You strive to have a moment where the cop and the robber are con. Confront one another. And you know, we have these examples of things like Heat where you're just like, well, how does it get better than that? And I'm not saying that this was as good as the diner scene in Heat. It doesn't really matter. But what they talked about was true to the kind of people that I think that those characters are.

[B]

Yeah. And. And in, you know, again, there's the efficien. Some of the more ambitious writing is really shocking and really impressive that they connected on a level of humanity. They recognize some innate good in the other, which then will be reflected in everything else that happens. I want to go back to. Oh, just the other Pelfrey scene I was thinking of similarly was when he meets with Rhae's wife, who this episode, I realized was played by the great Mickey Sumner, daughter of Sting and star of Frances. Ha.

[A]

She's in Frances Ha.

[B]

Yeah, one of the co stars that was. Oh, she's great in this. Especially like just such a remarkable, memorable face when. When she. When he says, no, no, no, that's not true. Ray texted Cliff last night. And you see Robbie thinking in real time, tell an actor, think on camera. That's really hard. I believe that that's what he's thinking.

[A]

I love that scene. Another, like, kind of like so Shelley is going to get him to the Dominican drug gang kind of thing. It is the saddest Bruce Springsteen song I've ever seen on screen where it's just like out of options and they are going to do something so stupid and desperate because they just. They do not see another way out. Shelly would probably rather die getting involved in a major Fentanyl deal than stay.

[B]

With Ray or live another day with those Goonish sons.

[A]

Playing with Robbie is out of time living with Sam eating crispy pancakes and Maeve taking Care of all his kids.

[B]

Do you know what's so. One of the more heartbreaking moments is a small one when he walks into Freddy's dining room after Freddie has already been like, here's how we're going to play this. He walks in, those sad eyes are. They're just puppy dog eyes at that point.

[A]

He sells himself out.

[B]

He's like. He just walks in with a face that says, will you adopt me? Like, will you please take me in? The thing you said about how we would feel about the show if it was in a different place, I think is an important one to address because we are obviously the mark for this show. And we love all of the references. There was a crazy one today. Oh, oh. Some character was taken to Lankanaugh Hospital.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

They stitched up my broken wrist real good there. And so we do love that extra layer of familiarity with the show. And it vibrates on our soul's frequencies. But I think I would love it as much if it was set in Cincinnati, made by a creator from Cincinnati, because there's a. And shot in Cincinnati because in addition to the beautiful production and the acting and everything and the writing, it has the two things that matter most to me. It has just diamond sharp specificity. The names of the hospitals, the order at the diner, whatever it may be. But it also has this generosity of spirit that gives humanity to every character. Every character. And whether it's Shelley in that brief moment, the two of the similarly like the moment, it's the kind of scene that maybe, if it was a more traditional writer's room, might get kind of steamrolled. There might not be room for it. Someone might not fight for it. Or in the edit, a weaker showrunner might say, yeah, we don't have time for that. But the scene with Sarah. Right. Is Tom's daughter.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The scene with Sarah.

[A]

Emily.

[B]

Emily.

[A]

Oh, Sarah. The one.

[B]

Sarah is biological. Cigarette. And she and Emily have this sort of little bit of a detente between themselves to truce. And Sarah's telling, to be fair, Emily.

[A]

Wasn'T really starting anything.

[B]

No. Okay. So Sarah reveals something of herself, is vulnerable in a way. And it's just like. It's like, you know when you see. When you go to a museum and it's an exhibit of an artist, and there's like, the beautiful canvas, the big painting, and sometimes if it's a retrospective, there's the small sketch that they put in the room next to it or next, you know, or near it, so you can see how it started. That Little bit of Sarah's backstory felt like a pencil sketch, but it hung in the same museum, if that makes sense. I found myself riveted by it. I felt there was truth in it, and it opened up my heart to a character that was not. It doesn't enter the stage as someone you're particularly excited to see, frankly.

[A]

I've continued to read the Richard Rohr book Falling Upward. Seriously, which is actually, I find, to be. As a not particularly spiritual person. It's been somewhat interesting to read it in the aftermath of my mom's passing and everything. But, yeah, there's a lot of stuff about storytelling in the book as well, and the usefulness of myth and the usefulness of storytelling to a society or to an individual. And I couldn't. I couldn't help but notice some of the very old, deep, deeply underpinned, like, storytelling mechanisms that Inglesby is engaging with. Robbie, going back to a childhood home in. On the Lehigh river in the Poconos. To have this final, like, reckoning with his past, with his anger, with, you know, his soiled future now. And I. I think that that's my favorite shit, is when you've got something that's like, this story could only be told here and in this way, but the story is. The story we've been telling ourselves since the Odyssey.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is about a guy trying to get home, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's what makes him Inglesby, I think, a really significant writer in television today is that he. You know, you could. You could spot some loose ends here and there, but, like, he's writing from a very deep place, I think, about. About a place that he knows very, very well.

[B]

You can be successful as a screenwriter if you are incredibly good at genre or structure or dialogue or form. And I think you can be successful maybe with a lower ceiling as a writer if you are able to passionately advocate for the things that interest you and that you believe in. The real masters of the form, I think, are able to take that fountain of, like, true inspiration and then funnel it into a shape that is pleasing, that is popular, that is entertaining. That's what Mad Men was. That's what Breaking Bad was. And that's. I'm not putting task on the level of that, but in terms of the project and the way that Brad approaches the job, I think that is what he is doing here. I think that's what he is capable of. We were. This is not in any way intended as, like, a drive by or astray, but it's an Interesting contrast with the way we were discussing alien earth in that we could tell Noah Hawley's interests, his passions, what moved him in this story, which, by the way, is a major thing to be able to do to communicate that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think ultimately we were mid on the show because the vessel and the message were misaligned at times. This is a successful example of them being aligned. And it's not easy to do.

[A]

Yeah. Let's talk about some of the more significant moments of the episode, I think.

[B]

You ever been to Bushkill falls?

[A]

I can't say that I have. I was actually looking at a map I didn't do.

[B]

You didn't do a lot of Delaware winter time?

[A]

Well, I did Delaware river canoeing, But I've never. I don't really think I spent a lot of recreational time, honestly, in the Poconos, to be completely candid with you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that far up 100 is. Is a little bit of a mystery to the kid.

[B]

I'm a vet. I'm a vet up there. Okay. When I was a kid, Stroudsburg.

[A]

And then you keep going north or what?

[B]

Well, my grandparents were coming from Wilkes Barrett, and so there were a couple summers when I was a kid.

[A]

Steps out on Wilkes Barrel.

[B]

Yeah, totally. The Serengeti of Pennsylvania. They. There were a couple like one or two summers when I was really little. They rented a small house in the summer. I remember. This is classic only child shit. I remember being there with my parents and my grandparents and my aunt and uncle and like my grandparents friends, Julian and Miriam.

[A]

It was not another kid in sight.

[B]

Not another kid within miles. Within miles. Which really explains a lot.

[A]

What did you do? We're just like. Just like poetry.

[B]

I found some. When I was home in Philadelphia recently. I found some photo albums of this time. And I'll say one thing. The adults seemed like they were having a hell of a good time. They like. My grandfather traveled with a wet bar. Yeah, it was like bloody Mary time or whatever. And then like I'm sort of off to the side with a transformer or a balloon. Like that's my experience. I remember picking blackberries once. And then actually my other Bushkill falls memory that I'll never forget is I do remember my parents taking me to the falls. It's beautiful. There's a few waterfalls up there and there's like steps to climb. Like not paved steps, but like wood framed, cut out little like dirt path up to the waterfall. And my parents are not.

[A]

This will.

[B]

Which camera? This will not surprise anyone. Not really. The outdoorsy type.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I remember it was unique that we were doing this trip because I think gin. The martinis were being served back at the rental. But I remember we walked up in such an odd way, and then. And after the waterfall, I said, why were we walking with me in the middle? And my mom was like, I told your father to do that because in case you fell forward or backwards, you wouldn't die.

[A]

Is that how steep it was?

[B]

No, but my takeaway from that wasn't waterfalls are beautiful. It's that I'm one false step away from instant death. Let me get back to my balloon and my fucking Care Bear.

[A]

I thought it was a transformer.

[B]

Well, I had both. Only Child Contains I contain multitudes.

[A]

Okay, so a couple big moments from this episode. Ratso Grasso, we called it.

[B]

And again it.

[A]

He withheld his. His sacred life force from Lizzie. That's a. That's a strange love joke. I know. But.

[B]

But look, people out there, casuals. Know your feelings about Lizzie.

[A]

Yeah, I'm very, very happy about that.

[B]

That clip of you taking a knee is at. We last checked. 2.6 million views.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So people know what you're about. I'm just saying. He. He.

[A]

I was wondering what you thought of the scene between him and Jason in so much as what you think their dynamic was. Was like, you know, I. I'm sure we'll get. We have two more episodes, so I'm sure we'll get, like, the backstory on Grasso, why he's doing this.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Are they childhood friends? Was he in the gang? Like, you know, is his dad Perry? I don't know. But, like, what. What did you think of their dynamic? Because I thought Jason being like, just remember who the. You're talking to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Obviously indicated that he felt like he had Grasso and kind of a headlock. But Grosso is also like, do what I'm telling you to do, you know?

[B]

Yes. His feeling, his behavior suggests that, you know, it's typical for Thriller. He's like, I'm in control of this, actually, you know, which I thought was interesting. He's also, you know, this is not unexpected for the show. Complicated enough that I think that his narrative of himself, that he's a good guy is plausible. Right. That he's just trying to keep. Keep everybody's motors running. Right. Like, keep, Keep. Keep everyone alive, keep the system in place.

[A]

I don't think we're going to find out that he's a sociopath. I mean, but I think it's going to Be something more like, either I grew up in this world or they had something on me.

[B]

I will say, of all of the many characters that we spend time with or get slight POV moments with, Jason, I think is the least sketched out. I understand his motivations and his brute force, but in terms of. Even Perry has some moments of. Certainly not grace, but regret.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and you see the complicated emotions.

[A]

Yeah, we'll get to Perry in a second.

[B]

Swirling inside of him. Jason so far is more of a blunt instrument, and that may change as things move forward.

[A]

I guess the question remains, I mean, I guess that makes that moment of Grasso not sleeping with Lizzie like, I guess, thoughtful, you know, or seen a different light. Because now you know, that there's something about him, his interest in Tom's past in the priesthood. There's something about, like his kind of sweetness is. It doesn't seem like an act. It seems like maybe that's the person he wants to be and he knows he's not.

[B]

He is attempting to connect himself to Tom's story in the sense that he also feels like he's a fallen angel. Right. That, like, he has. That's the vibe I get cumulatively from his behavior with Tom. And in light of what happens in this episode.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That he's trying to sketch out a narrative where both he and Tom tried to stay to something pure, but then, like, had to get down in the muck. It seems like he's a bit further down in the muck than Tom is, but I think that's what he. That feels like.

[A]

His yearning head fake with McGinty then from the last episode. Or do you feel like she could still be.

[B]

I think she. I think. Yeah. I don't think it's a head fake. I feel like we weren't wrong to underline the moment when Grasso says, some lady interviewed me.

[A]

That's just some lady interviewed me. And then after Tom leaves and says, I think I have a problem on the task force, and she's like, no, you don't. Then she calls, presumably this guy who comes in that she then mocks for not wearing a sufficiently summer casual outfit.

[B]

Glad you mentioned that. One of the best moments in the episode. There's still room for Lulz here at Task hq.

[A]

Thank God Plimpton's got him. Got him firing out. Like she. The. The I'm an emotional eater line was great. Her going into that Starbucks bagel like that. Sad kind of.

[B]

Oh, my God, her morning.

[A]

Yeah. But I. I presume now that the phone call that she made was to somebody in her office to interrogate the. The. To re vet the people on the task force. And that now something with Grasso is pinged. That doesn't stop her from then spending the day essentially with him after picking him up.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, and she never seems within the car. She doesn't seem to indicate any knowledge of Grasso's duplicity.

[B]

I mean, like just on a fundamental level, what you're saying. This is also what I mean about why I'm so engaged by it. It's the humanity. Like this is a show with a body count but that respects the severity and finality of death. Like people are double crossing each other but for the most part nobody wants. Nobody wants a trail of corpses.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it allows the deaths when they occur to.

[A]

And think about like. And they're all these things are connected to each other in a. Really. Going back to my point about like this is an old story. This is about a guy avenging his brother's death and the brother and this girl Eren had like a love that was so pure, but it was, you know, it was doomed. It was a doomed love affair like that. Like Jason is psychotic and is going to get violent and that's, you know, like this is the ripple out from those, those original sins in some way.

[B]

What. How much of this would you do for me?

[A]

I was going to ask you a question.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Later in the episode or earlier in the episode rather. I believe when Perry visits Maeve.

[B]

Yeah. He's happy to see her.

[A]

Do you have a picture of me on your fridge?

[B]

Thank you. I want to talk about this. Photographs are doing a lot of heavy lifting in the show. I'm not mad at it. I'm not mad at it. It's really hard to write stuff that connects dots or to give people something to do when they're feeling sticking right.

[A]

Out there on the fridge, just tucking out like.

[B]

It's like Robbie and Cliff. Best boys for Revs. Robbie Robin with Cliff.

[A]

I have like. There's one picture of me currently up in my house. Oh, in the entire house. It's a Polaroid of me in the Criterion closet.

[B]

Oh, that's cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How often do you put it back up after Phoebe takes it down?

[A]

She doesn't take it down. She just has a different aesthetic.

[B]

The one that doesn't involve your face.

[A]

Yeah. I guess I've just never really thought about putting pictures of myself up.

[B]

Here's the. Here's the biggest follow up.

[A]

How many pictures of you do we can Do.

[B]

That's what I was gonna say. How many pictures of me are up? I feel like Phoebe wouldn't mind if there's a picture of me up. Yeah.

[A]

I think if I had, like, me and the boys, but it would be like. I don't know if I'd put it on the fridge.

[B]

Right. Inevitably there would be, like, you know, a takeout menu from the Fuss the Fuck Cafe or something. Blocking my face. Yeah, probably. The way you get away with it's all right. I like that restaurant. I think the way you get away with this is just a pro tip. Putting up pictures of yourself in your home is you have children and then you frame the ones that you're also in.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

And then everyone's like, look at this picture of these kids. But you're in the background, like, you know, lamping.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Crossanova style.

[A]

I'll make sure I have kids so I can do that.

[B]

You get a picture of my kids. Nothing weird about that. I've got some cute ones. They're very photogenic.

[A]

We covered Shelly and Robbie's scene. I get. I get the plan. So talk me through this, Freddy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is going to essentially set Robbie up and take double the sort of commission on that, or is he getting 100.

[B]

Of it, I believe, of the fentanyl. Sure.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I'm sure it'll get explained a little bit more clearly. I mean, I. I grasp what's happening, even if I don't understand the details. When Jason calls Perry and he's like, he had me over in a. Over a barrel. He needed double. I was just. A double of the money that you get for selling the fentanyl, I guess.

[B]

Or double the percentage they'd already agreed to.

[A]

Did they agree to anything?

[B]

I thought they were going, remember, in the whole pissing on me story?

[A]

Yes, that's right. Because he's like, I either piss on you or you agree to my price. And those guys were like, make a fair point.

[B]

One point I would like to make, that it is uncanny that both Task and Dope Thief built to a collision between more factions than each faction realizes in a quarry like that is bizarre. I would also say that the differences in the execution of those scenes also speaks to the essential difference between the shows. Why? One we were taken quite seriously and one we thought had some good performances.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Because I don't think you watched enough.

[A]

I watched a couple of quarries.

[B]

No, not the show quarry. I mean Dope thief.

[A]

Oh, sorry. Yeah, my bad.

[B]

The dope thief scene in a quarry where a Character who drives them to several episodes of Dope Thief decide is like, takes out like a high powered military grade rifle and just starts screaming and like shooting people. It's a different attitude towards the vagaries of life.

[A]

I think also the. The function of the settings that we revisit often. I found, you know, Aaron's death, for instance, in this episode. Margarita Levova's character. On one hand, I would say that her character was not served particularly well this season. And I think a lot of her as a performer. No, I mean on this show. I mean, it's just like she kind of is like, I am in a flashback, I am in a kitchen, I'm in a couple of scenes. But ultimately what Eren Eren functions like a photograph on the wall to move the story around.

[B]

It's exactly right. And it is the benefit of HBO and of a talented team that you get the A version of a C role. You and I both think she's a great, great actor. And so she brought a lot to it, which is kind of what you need to elevate it when there's not a lot of real estate for screen time. But there was a moment when. And that whole scene was shot beautifully and Jeremiah Zagar was back behind the camera for this episode. And I thought that whole scene with the kids listening to the indie rock band Honey.

[A]

Oh, I was wondering what that was.

[B]

Yeah, with Smoke, like, that was just beautifully shot and realized and disturbing and creepy and all that. And effective in the sense that there was a moment when I feel like there should be a term for this that we should come up with. It's like what I was saying before about your heart's in your throat and you're like a character could die here. Like, suddenly everything is in play. The best shows bring you to that point where you're questioning your own experience and watching things for many, many years. And so there was a moment when he was chasing her where I was like, she could come up with a rock and win. But of course she doesn't. But that feeling engages you in a.

[A]

Different way as an audience member. And I think this is just a very, very, very soundly constructed show in terms of its. Its theme, in terms of its themes and this episode specifically. Tom does this speech about a bird, a vagrant bird that gets kind of lost but can always get back home. Obviously. Robbie leads all of these factions to a childhood escape. Aaron, when she's on the right, when her life is basically falling apart, notices this kind of like a really, like, nuanced little phenomenon that's essentially. It's vape smoke. But it looks like clouds are coming down into this, like, to this water bed area. Water bed? What the fuck am I talking about? Like, is it a lake or is it. Is that the quarry?

[B]

I thought it was the quarry in any case, not the show quarry, which.

[A]

Is very good, or the show dope thief. No, my point is that obviously Aaron is, like, having a reverie about, like, when she used to come here with Billy, and maybe even to her childhood, when she used to be so carefree that she would vape at the quarry, you know, or whatever the kids did back in the 90s, you know, and.

[B]

Listen to indie rock.

[A]

And that's where she dies. And she's swimming to get to this time in her life that she remembers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Perry stops her, obviously. But I. I thought, like, you see these, like, recurrences. It's not just doubling where it's like, oh, Tom and Robbie are going through similar experiences. It's like, this is about people trying to get back to a place that maybe doesn't exist anymore, and people trapped.

[B]

In the same fishbowl they've always been in and not understanding why the water is so cloudy and murky now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was what we were talking about the other week, about the spaces they live in. Like, even Ray and Shelley's house, in a vacuum looks like a perfectly nice old house, you know, with a nice backyard and. But what has it become? What has these. What have these towns become? What have we filled them with? What has become of all of us? That was a nice recall to that.

[A]

I thought that the Perry and Maeve scene was great. We've talked about Perry referring to Robbie as Crazy Robbie. You might think. I might. I might have thought, in a different world, that, like, the Sam plot line was a little anticlimactic. Just like, oh, and then she takes him.

[B]

There might be more pages to turn.

[A]

There might be more pages to turn. But I thought also, it's like, yeah, that's when. That's when Maeve decides enough's enough is when fucking Perry shows up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this kid is 10ft away.

[B]

And I think that if you could map this out, if you took the Maeve story, separated it out, I think it passes the plausibility test, which we don't put on shows that are excellent. You know, that's anti art, honestly. But if you did want to watch it that way, I think what she did with Sam initially, you know, trying to bring him back and then taking him back for reasons and then finally saying, enough's enough. That makes sense, right? We should shout out Jamie McShane, who's the actor who plays Perry?

[A]

Great job.

[B]

Just someone who. You know. I go to his Wikipedia page and I'm like, I have definitely seen this man in a number of television shows and movies. He was in Sons of Anarchy, Bloodline, Avengers. He works. He's a working actor.

[A]

Avengers, like the Marvel movie?

[B]

Yeah. Who was he in that he was in? I have no idea. He was in Thor and the Avengers. Oh, I don't think he was Thor, but I'll check.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It reminds me of the best of UK television, where this whole show is just a staple. There's a stable of incredible actors given opportunities to show what they've always been able to do. So you have that small sense of familiarity, but then you get surprised.

[A]

What's the name of Perry's on Again, off again girlfriend?

[B]

He's Agent Jackson.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You remember him from Thor?

[A]

No, I really. I gotta say, I seriously do not. What's the name of.

[B]

I don't remember. I know you're asking.

[A]

She's good.

[B]

Also good.

[A]

And that's another example of, like, just somebody doing a very good job in a very small role. And I'm sorry, I don't know your name. What else was there from this episode that I wanted to discuss?

[B]

I want to talk about the whole. The architecture and the. The. The emotion of the. The Tom and Robbie stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I loved Ruffalo playing old and broken down. I loved the Pepsi can on the back of the toilet. And then that coming back around with Robbie being like, nobody pisses like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's pretty funny. I thought the. It earned it. Right? Like it was worth it. That kind of collision with other. Everyone calling and wondering. And then that feeling of. There's just a kind of. There's a feeling of freedom. I think when you feel a show say, fuck it, we're here. We're at the point where this needs to happen. That is also something that I would reference Breaking Bad at. Being expert at Breaking Bad was never afraid of turning the page when you've gotten to the end of the sentence.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I thought that was really compelling. I thought we got some more backstory about Tom and his wife in an interesting way. We got a shout out to another local hospital, Bryn Mawr Hospital. You ever spent time there? Nice one.

[A]

I thought there's a. I think when you watch cops and robber shows, you're assuming that what you're gonna see is Popeye Doyle or Vincent Hanna or the guy who chases guys. And Tom's not that. Now, whether Tom got put on this task force by Kathleen to lose, or whether nobody really cared about this case or what are we doing with Tom in the first place? There was no world where Tom was like, I'm actually incredible at evasive driving, and I'm gonna, like, you know, there's nothing he's gonna do. He's got a gun to his back and he wants to call his kids.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that was like, a really, really, really beautiful moment where he's just like. He's not yelling. There's no ornate dialogue. There's no. He's not cursing him out. He's just like, man, let me call my kids.

[B]

But this is also why the specificity matters, because it may not resonate to anyone who didn't grow up in the area, but when. When Robbie opens his license, Tom's license, and he says, tom Brandis from Springfield.

[A]

Just like a guy. Yeah.

[B]

Lives near a mall.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just normal.

[A]

Likes birds.

[B]

Loves birds. Loves birds. Did you think that Perry's strategy of pulling, popping his collar was an effective way of hiding the scarring and clawing?

[A]

Well, I think what it does is it. First of all, this is such a unique and beautiful place to stage what will be the climax of the series, one would assume.

[B]

I think my. My sense is that we're going to have fireworks, and then we're going to have a long emotional denouement in the finale.

[A]

I think there are a lot of fireworks still to come, too, because everybody who's kind of arriving at the river, gathering at the river, if you will. There's all these different factions within factions. Right. There's the dark hearts divided because unbeknownst to Jason, so far.

[B]

Unbeknownst. Yeah.

[A]

Perry is killed. Jason's wife or girlfriend. I don't know the state of their.

[B]

They have a family together. Common law wife.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Partners.

[B]

Just two crazy kids.

[A]

And unbeknownst to some of the people in the task force, the task force is divided because Grasso is actually working on behalf of the dark hearts. And then you've got Robbie, who I imagine wanted this to take place where it's taking place for reasons beyond the Odyssey, and wants it to be because, like, he knows the terrain, maybe has hid something somewhere, whatever it is. So I love this image of these people kind of moving down the riverbanks and converging on Robbie. But I think that there's a lot of story left, because not only are you Gonna get. Whatever happens in the woods here, you're gonna have to have an accounting of everybody's divided allegiances and who's going to.

[B]

Come out of the woods and in what state will they be in. How do they feel about Lyme disease? Because that is a real issue there. I love Robbie.

[A]

Felled by poison oak.

[B]

Just scratching the whole finale. I love that part in the car when he says, oh, and also, like, Freddy's.

[A]

Freddy's out there.

[B]

Freddy's rolling.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know if he's going to the Poconos, but, I mean, he's got a vestige.

[B]

He had a bad experience in Lancaster.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I've kidnapped the world's most depressing human.

[A]

So funny.

[B]

Great line.

[A]

I fucking like you, but I don't like you enough to let you fuck up my plan.

[B]

Also never get serious. Satellite radio, I guess.

[A]

Yeah. That was a really good little Chekhovs radio. Outlaw country shout out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where it's like, I was like, damn serious throwing down five bucks to get in the show. And then it winds up being like, it's a satellite so you can ping them.

[B]

Did you like the parallel? You spoke so well about what Eren was seeing through the haze. And it's mirrored by where Tom ends up on the other side of his woods. Walk. When Robbie says, walk about a mile, you'll see it. It's beautiful.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And what he sees is normal America. Like families and just the world that both of them have left a long time ago.

[A]

I've. I found it interesting that this show is driving towards the woods. Like most of the action of the last two episodes, but specifically this one is happening in a kind of pastoral setting. I don't know what it means necessarily, but it's not a Philly show anymore. You know, it's kind of.

[B]

No.

[A]

This weird, like these. These. These animals kind of almost from like. Like this city coming into the woods to, like, be wild.

[B]

Maybe that just goes back to. It's not the. But it's the original smarts of Brad Inglesby and his writing that he's done for hbo. You could say that Mare of Easttown and Task are Philly shows, but they're not. They're Delaware county shows. They're Pennsylvania shows. That is a much different thing than an urban setting. And I think you can tell a certain kind of phoniness.

[A]

Sally Richardson Whitfield was very funny when we asked her, like, if she had, you know, what were some of the things that she thought were hallmarks of. And she Was like, I never need to see the woods again. Like, I've seen so many different woods to set are like, little scenes. And, like.

[B]

And I think we could. And we. I'm sure we yearn for programming that is super Philly coded. Because I think, again, I feel bad doing strays like this, but, like, Dope Thief was supposedly set in Philadelphia, but was deeply un. Philadelphia. It was Philadelphia in the way that a lot of other mass entertainment has been, where it's just like, Brooklyn South a little bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not just talking the accents. I'm just talking about specific things that make it a unique place. And so the fact that this show is dug into such an unexpected patch of ground makes it, I think, makes it resonant to people who aren't from there.

[A]

Is it worth making predictions? Is it worth saying, like, oh, what do you think happens out there? I hesitate to mention this, but in the teaser that had the Guns n Roses song, you can see some things about this shootout.

[B]

Look at you.

[A]

I know. I wish I didn't.

[B]

Did you go back or you just remember?

[A]

Oh, I watched it 300 times. So, like, I. I just remember.

[B]

The beauty of my life is I remember nothing. I don't even remember when we started this podcast. It's all gone.

[A]

Yesterday.

[B]

It's possible.

[A]

Anything else?

[B]

In a way, I'm always doing this podcast, don't you think?

[A]

Sure, sure.

[B]

Not in a bad way. Anything else about this? No, this was great. Great episode. Very excited for two more.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's fun.

[A]

Okay. Fun is one way to describe it.

[B]

It's fun to have a show.

[A]

It's emotionally trenchant.

[B]

Yeah. But it's fun to have a show that is. This has this much depth and engagement.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I look forward to more of it. I don't know. What do you want me to say?

[A]

You got the job.

[B]

Did I get the job? Like. But also, I feel like this is. This isn't the whole podcast. Right. You're going to do a little something else?

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

You're not going to do anything else?

[A]

Well, I mean, it's like, you know.

[B]

I don't just plug and play.

[A]

I want to. I want to have this be like the chunk. And then if something else, what am I going to do? Just be like, you know, I really think House of Guinness really turned a.

[B]

Corner there on episode four, comment on Mike Johnson's, like, 4D gamesmanship to keep the government to reopen. The government. That's going to happen this weekend or something.

[A]

Yeah. Thanks for joining me. Maybe there are more to this podcast I don't know and think about. I'll be back on Thursday. Maybe you will too.

[B]

Possible.