The Best TV Week of the Year, ‘Task’ Episode 3, and ‘The Mandalorian and Grogu’ Trailer Underwhelms

Summary

The Watch — The Best TV Week of the Year, ‘Task’ Episode 3, and ‘The Mandalorian and Grogu’ Trailer Underwhelms
Episode Date: September 22, 2025 | Hosts: Chris Ryan & Andy Greenwald

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Episode Overview

This episode explores what the hosts call the "best TV week of the year," featuring a packed release calendar including standout series premieres and returns. Chris and Andy review standout moments from the third episode of HBO's Task, weigh in on the underwhelming Mandalorian and Grogu trailer, and reflect on the ever-shifting Hollywood landscape, with tangents on Heat 2 rumors and the emotional labor of being Philadelphia sports fans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Eagles Win & the Emotional Cost of Fandom (01:26–06:23)

• The episode opens with Chris and Andy discussing the emotional highs and lows of Philadelphia Eagles fandom and the performative ritual of "acting normal" during tense games.
  • Andy recounts his reaction to a dramatic Eagles win:

    “A sound emerged from my body that has never before emerged from my body. …Kind of like a Greek mythological creature that's part lion, part eagle. It was not cool.” (03:43)

  • Chris talks about the superstitions of sports watching and never leaving the "lucky" couch spot.

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2. The Best TV Week of the Year (06:23–13:16)

• Both hosts highlight the exceptional TV lineup this week:
  • Task
  • Alien Earth finale
  • The Lowdown debut (Sterlin Harjo & Ethan Hawke)
  • English Teacher Season 2
  • Slow Horses Season 5
  • House of Guinness
  • Chris raves about The Morning Show's new season.

    “The fucking morning show is really good this season. And the second episode is awesome.” (08:15)

The Lowdown Anticipation

• Andy, having previewed The Lowdown and English Teacher, lauds Harjo’s PI series starring Ethan Hawke.

  “He has done this. Hang the banner. Mission accomplished...He gathered up a Hall of Fame that-guy cast.” (09:20)

  • The show is compared to Altman’s The Long Goodbye and praised for turning the personal into the universal.
  • Chris calls Ethan Hawke’s lead turn “one of my favorite Hawke performances in recent memory,” blending idealist and “everyday guy” traits.

    “But this has some qualities where it’s both the wild-eyed, idealist, romantic dreamer side of Ethan Hawke, but also the incredibly approachable everyday guy...” (11:04)

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3. Underwhelming Mandalorian and Grogu Trailer (13:23–22:06)

• Chris teases Andy about his silence after the trailer’s release.
• Andy is underwhelmed, critiquing its TV-movie aesthetic:

  “This looks like a fun sizzle reel for a new season of television…There was absolutely nothing… that made it seem cinematic.” (14:52)

  • Chris notes the unusual Monday release timing and wonders about Disney’s intentions.
  • They riff on “Demon Slayer” box office phenomena and debate the perils of Baby Yoda overload:

    “Is this an Urkel situation? …Which, to be clear, would mean it would become very successful, but I wouldn’t like it.” — Andy (21:03)

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4. Hollywood Chatter: Heat 2, Scorsese’s Next Move & Movie Production Roulette (22:11–30:27)

• Discussion of reports that Leonardo DiCaprio may star in Michael Mann’s Heat 2 adaptation:
  • They caution listeners about Hollywood reporting—movies often fall apart or change with little warning.
  • Speculation about cast (Adam Driver, Austin Butler), and “this is my Heat 2” as metaphor for personal passions.
  • Andy’s industry wisdom:

    “Movies are absolute chaos and no movies are happening until the second they hit roll.” (29:20)

  • Both hosts agree there is still space for aging legends:

    “This absolutely is a country for old men.” — Andy (30:13)

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5. Deep Dive: Task Episode 3 — "Nobody's Stronger Than Forgiveness" (31:41–56:10)

Strong Direction & Standout Scenes

• Praises for director Sally Richardson Whitfield’s immersive, stylish episode.
• Chris singles out the interrogation scene with Tuso Mbedu as detective Aaliyah:

  “Her performance was really powerful…her anecdote, her monologue about her own experience with domestic violence…” (32:26)

Bar Scene: Philly Characterization & Performances

• The Lizzie & Grasso scene at the State Trooper bar is cited as a season highlight:

  “Allison Oliver is to drunk Philly girl acting what Daniel Day Lewis is to Abraham Lincoln.” — Chris (33:25)

  • Andy’s response: “I think she is to Philly drunk girl acting what Daniel Day Lewis is to acting.” (33:34)
  • The use of “Mother Love Bone” in the bar as a perfect character beat.

Inglesby’s Writing: Small-Town, Blue-Collar Texture

• Andy analyzes Brad Inglesby’s mastery of self-revelatory monologues, especially in supporting characters:

  “He is God tier at this, at writing these monologues and casting them so they actually feel lived in…” (37:13)

Show Structure & Thematic Depth

• Discussion on the series’ “scaffolding,” and how Task avoids standard murder-mystery red herrings through rich character focus and careful plotting.
  • Anticipation over the “rat” on the task force. Theories include Grasso as the primary suspect due to his over-eagerness and likability:

    “I would say that Grasso would be the betting favorite [to be the mole].” — Andy (50:21)

  • Praise for how the show moves at a "relatively healthy clip” and develops supporting characters.

Religious & Philosophical Subtext

• Chris reads an email about a reference to Richard Rohr’s "second half of life" framework embedded in Brandis’s character (42:40), suggesting the show is aiming for spiritual as well as dramatic resonance:

  “‘The first task is to build a strong container or identity. The second is to find the contents that the container was meant to hold.’…What are we really doing when we are doing what we are doing?” (43:15)

Visuals & Setting

• Andy highlights the show’s use of Pennsylvania scenery to contrast idyllic exteriors with internal turmoil:

  “It looks like Mayberry…it’s a vision of America…But what is the content of this beautiful green vessel these days? It’s fentanyl and rage and impotence and sadness.” (47:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Eagles Fandom
  “A sound emerged from my body that has never before emerged from my body. Kind of like one of those Greek mythological creatures that's like part lion, part eagle.” — Andy (03:43)

• On The Lowdown
  “He has done this. Hang the banner.” — Andy (09:48)

• On the Mandalorian and Grogu trailer
  “There was absolutely nothing in this that made it seem cinematic.” — Andy (14:52)

• On Ethan Hawke’s performance in The Lowdown
  “This has some qualities where he’s both the wild-eyed, idealist, romantic dreamer side … but also the incredibly approachable everyday guy.” — Chris (11:04)

• On the Philly bar scene in Task
  “Allison Oliver is to drunk Philly girl acting what Daniel Day Lewis is to Abraham Lincoln.” — Chris (33:25)

• On Richard Rohr’s philosophical impact
  “The first task is to build a strong container or identity. The second is to find the contents that the container was meant to hold.” — Richard Rohr, via Chris (43:15)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:26–06:23 – Eagles win, fandom woes and rituals
• 06:23–13:16 – TV week breakdown: Task, The Lowdown, English Teacher, more
• 13:23–22:06 – Mandalorian and Grogu trailer reactions
• 22:11–30:27 – Heat 2 rumors, Hollywood movie development talk
• 31:41–56:10 – Task Episode 3 deep dive: highlights, writing, performances, themes

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Final Thoughts & What’s Next

• The episode closes with excitement for Thursday’s feature on The Lowdown and the Alien Earth finale, plus continued discussion on Task as it deepens its thematic and narrative complexity.

This week on The Watch: celebration of TV’s golden weeks, a critique of Disney’s cinematic ambitions, and an enthusiastic, reverent breakdown of character-driven drama at the heart of HBO’s Task.

Transcript

[Chris Ryan]

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[Andy Greenwald]

To have to clear the room Stand up and walk now.

[Chris Ryan]

Hello and welcome to the Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] and joining me in the studio he's the guy who spams Mother Love Bone at the State Trooper Bar. It's Andy Greenwald. I can't always just like me.

[Andy Greenwald]

Which how far would I do worse at?

[Chris Ryan]

I can't believe that Mother's Love Mother Love Bone showed up on task last night.

[Andy Greenwald]

You can't believe it.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm here to get into that. We're going to get into task. We're going to talk a little bit about the Mandalorian trailer. We have some chatter about what a huge week of television we have this week. Man, it's almost overwhelming. Greenwald, it's great to see you. You can email the watch@the watchpotify.com youm can follow us on Instagram thewatchpod underscore. You can watch us on YouTube bringer TV or watch us Spotify where I hope you're listening. And Sunday, Sunday I imagine it was a roller coaster of emotions for the kid.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's all I wanted to talk to you about mainly. So we did not previous week we did watch the Eagles together Yeah, And I thought it was good. We had a kind of, you know, it was a little bit. It was a little bit like high holy days in an orthodox or conservative temple. Men and women were in separate rooms. The women had a sort of a crafting thing going on and the men were watching sports. And that was okay.

[Chris Ryan]

I was. But go ahead.

[Andy Greenwald]

And we didn't do that again this week. So we were in our respective domiciles for this game. It was a roller coaster. Can I ask you something? Just between you and me and Kaya and all our friends in the listening community, I seemed okay, right? I didn't seem to.

[Chris Ryan]

Last week or this week?

[Andy Greenwald]

No, this week over text was.

[Chris Ryan]

I like, you seem fine.

[Andy Greenwald]

Thank you.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, you seemed fine. Why were you fine?

[Andy Greenwald]

I was fine. Okay. I really. It's real, Chris. It's really important for me for that. You think.

[Chris Ryan]

Don't print the newspaper that I was mad.

[Andy Greenwald]

Exactly. I just want you to think that I was okay. I was pretty level headed, you know, I was like, well, this will be an instructive loss. And then I was like, well, it'll be a moral victory. And then I was like, oh, shit, we just won.

[Chris Ryan]

So what did you do after the Eagles beat the Rams on a last second field goal block, return for a.

[Andy Greenwald]

Touchdown to cover from those around me at the time, including, I imagine, the neighbors. I've been told that a sound emerged from my body that has never before emerged from my body. Here's the thing, though. I think that as a. Which camera's on fatherofdaughters. I think it's important not to continue the cycle of really, like, Angry Sports dads, you know?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

So I definitely try to keep it. I'm less crazy, hopefully around them than I am with the fellas. But when that happened, I had the first, like, I was ready to be like, oh, well, see, it's okay. And that noise seemed to begin in my sternum. And then Jordan Davis blocked it. And then Jordan Davis ran 18.59 miles per hour down the field for the touchdown. And the noise turned into something else. It was kind of like one of those, like, Greek mythological creatures that's like part lion, part eagle, you know, and it was not cool. It was not a cool sound. So I really spent the rest of the day living that down.

[Chris Ryan]

You're like, wasn't that weird when I made that sound first you knew the thing.

[Andy Greenwald]

We were like, nobody heard that. Right? Like, that didn't come out of me. But it did. It did. Isn't it Nice to still learn things about ourselves at this age.

[Chris Ryan]

I think it's what life's all about. It's just the constant journey of discovery. Let's discover some television.

[Andy Greenwald]

So no comments on your behavior.

[Chris Ryan]

My behavior was fine. I gotta be completely honest. I was working for, like, the middle part of the game where I felt it falling out of reach. I was just like, I am not gonna watch every play and criticize Matt Prior. Like, I have. I have, like, other stuff to get done today. And so I was trying to, like, basically, like, get ready for rewatchables in the watch while that was happening. And then as soon as they let the. They uncuffed young Jalen.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And let him deal, I was like, okay, we're back. I was telling Kai that, like, at one point, I think I started intimating that I'd be ready to go out for a lovely lunch with my wife. I was like, we could just turn our backs on this.

[Andy Greenwald]

You can never say that.

[Chris Ryan]

She was like, okay, let me know. And then I was just like, I don't know why you're dressed. You know, like, we're. We're never leaving this house because I've learned over time, I'm never leaving this couch because look what amazing things happen when I sit here.

[Andy Greenwald]

This spot on the couch.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Andy Greenwald]

I've learned later in life that it's important never to crack the window. Like, because when we say, you know what? It just might be an early day for me in the NFL. Like, we say that for ourselves to make ourselves seem normal to ourselves. If someone takes us up on that, like, that's. That's a. That's a huge mistake.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Huge mistake this week on television.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

People are going to be busy. There is something for everyone. And it's. I sneakily, I think, the best week of the year in the. The TV year. Best week of the year. So we've got. Obviously, Task aired last night. The beginning of the week. We have Alien Earth finale. We're all on the edge of our seat to find out what those crazy kids got up to this week. Also on Tuesday night is the release of the first two episodes of the Lowdown on fx, which is Sterling Harjo's return to TV after the reservation dogs.

[Andy Greenwald]

And they're dropping two episodes.

[Chris Ryan]

And there's dropping two episodes. We're actually. I'm actually doing an event with Sterling and Ethan Hawke tonight, and we're gonna use the audio from that event where we're screening an episode for Thursday's show and video and video.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm sorry I can't join you, but I think it's. We could probably say Ethan Hawke requested that. I am not. I not be present.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know why you keep saying that. I thought we all had a great connection with him when he came on for Good Lord Bird.

[Andy Greenwald]

We did. We had a great time. But I felt the spark between you guys, and, like, I don't want to be the third wheel.

[Chris Ryan]

We're just two guys who love Rihanna, you know? What do you want?

[Andy Greenwald]

I am sorry I can't celebrate Rosh Hashanah with you guys.

[Chris Ryan]

It's a shame. Yeah, those are.

[Andy Greenwald]

Those are good people, and it's a great show.

[Chris Ryan]

And also this week we have the return of the English Teacher, which comes back with its full second season on the 25th.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's so good. It's so good.

[Chris Ryan]

Not only that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I believe the first two episodes of Slow Horses season five go up this week.

[Andy Greenwald]

Damn.

[Chris Ryan]

It's the best season since the first one.

[Andy Greenwald]

Whoa.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm serious. They're back. Like, it's a fully. Like. Like, absolutely. Like, everything you would want from Slow Horses is this season.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is great.

[Chris Ryan]

And then House of Guinness, which comes out Thursday night, Friday morning.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's also this.

[Chris Ryan]

That's all this week. So there's two full seasons dropping. And I have to say, yeah, the fucking morning show is really good this season. And the second episode is awesome.

[Andy Greenwald]

Wait, like, awesome?

[Chris Ryan]

Not awesome, like, oh, my God, this is like Carrie and Brody in a cabin awesome. But, like, that's like, my only. That is your greatest. My only reference point is Homeland. Sterling, was Homeland in your mind when you were making the lineup?

[Andy Greenwald]

Sterling, you cast Tracy Letts in the pilot of your show. Did you know he was on Homeland S3? Then walk away.

[Chris Ryan]

So what a week. What would you say you're most excited for? I guess you've seen some of the Lowdown.

[Andy Greenwald]

I've watched the Lowdown. I've watched English Teacher. I've not yet watched Slow Horses. I would say that's more of a Apple screener site issue than a me issue. I've tried. But of these shows, what am I most excited about? Well, I think I'm excited about the Lowdown because I have dreamed of having a show like this back on television.

[Chris Ryan]

Tell people a little bit about it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay, well, no spoilers, obviously, but when Sterling was on this podcast, really the scheme of things, not that long ago, he said that his next project would be at a different title at the time, but he was making a down on his heels, PI show starring Ethan Hawke, set in his beloved hometown of Tulsa. And his number one North Star guiding light for the show was Robert Altman's the Long Goodbye. And he has done this. Hang the banner.

[Chris Ryan]

He really did that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Mission accomplished in all of the best ways. In all of the, oh, my God, I can't believe they really let him get away with this ways. He has gathered up, I would say, a hall of fame.

[Chris Ryan]

That guy cast two dozen of just those guys, but also just people that I have never met before or never seen before who come on and do two scenes and you're like, well, I'll. I'll follow you anywhere, brother.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes. Or, or like, you know, Macon Blair was. Is a filmmaker. He's really talented. Friends of directs a couple episodes. A couple episodes he was on Reservation Dogs. And then he plays a character on the show that within minutes of introducing him in the pilot, I'm like, I cannot wait to spend the next six years with these guys. Yeah, it's an absolute. For me, I mean, it's an absolute delight. Yeah, I loved it.

[Chris Ryan]

It's not perfect. This is one of my favorite Hawk performances in recent memory because I think, you know, is he kind of flits between mainstream blockbuster movies, often genre movies, where he's, you know, in action films, in horror movies, and then kind of really exploring the studio space when it comes to some of his more independent choices, whether it's stuff that he's directing, stuff that he's appearing in. One thing I really, really respect about him is that when one of his longtime buddies makes a movie, he's. He's in. In the film.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Like Rick Gomez makes a movie, Ethan Hawke is in it. You know what I mean? Like, and I. He works with his family. It's just a very impressive way of doing things. But this has some qualities where it's both the wild eyed, idealist, romantic dreamer side of Ethan Hawke, but also the incredibly approachable everyday guy that he is capable of being, who just loves to.

[Andy Greenwald]

Act, who loves to show up. I would also say, and we'll talk more about it later in the week and throughout the season, I hope when we have talked about, like, dream projects from auteurs over the last few years, it tends to be people being like, I can't believe they let me play in the Star wars sandbox. Or finally, the keys to the xenomorph were handed over, you know, because that's the nature of the business. Sterlin leveraged the success of Reservation Dogs into making a show that is at once a love letter to his hometown. And honestly, a love letter to the things that he loves.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

So there is a character who wears a hat a lot like Sterlin wears, who owns a used bookshop that stays open despite itself on a street next to a lawyer who's his best friend in a diner that has great coffee all night. And I'm like, this is the dream of any writer and filmmaker to be like, I want to make a show about the things that I love in the space that I know and have it. But the trick is he makes it feel welcoming and not just someone telling you about a dream he had one time.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I think a lot of that comes from where it's shot and his familiarity and his love for his city. And there are moments this is a very, like, ornate, like, multi layered mystery conspiracy show about one man up against an institution or force that is almost beyond his comprehension. But it takes time to have these beats. Like a guy walking into a used bookstore and being like, I'm home. Or a guy getting food and being like, this is good food.

[Andy Greenwald]

This food tastes good.

[Chris Ryan]

These real life beats that give the show a ton of depth and heart. And heart. Yeah, you're right. I can't wait to talk about it. We'll hit that on Thursday. Along with Alien.

[Andy Greenwald]

I would also say having English teacher back, I watched two, and I had to hold back from watching more because I just think that show is so cool.

[Chris Ryan]

I can't wait to check it out. Speaking of the Star wars sandbox, many, many, many people are asking Andy, why is your silence so deafening on the Mandalorian and Grogu trailer?

[Andy Greenwald]

I mean, in the hours since it dropped.

[Chris Ryan]

What did you think?

[Andy Greenwald]

You're so excited to talk about this.

[Chris Ryan]

Little minute and a half taste of what Filoni and Favs have been cooking up.

[Andy Greenwald]

I would say, okay, I have two headline takes, and then I'd like to seed the sandbox to you. One take. These are definitely, like. These are more modest, not barbed takes. Because I do have other thoughts that.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe you don't want to get aggregated.

[Andy Greenwald]

I want to get aggro. Yeah. Kaya's watching. She leaned in.

[Chris Ryan]

Kaya the Hutt getting ready to cut up another viral take. Andy versus the Mouse House, round four. Go ahead.

[Andy Greenwald]

If Bob Iger thinks the release of this trailer is gonna silence the. I think that on the one hand, it's a kid's adventure movie, and that is actually what influenced. I mean, that is what George Lucas said he wanted to do with Phantom Menace that is even the kind of Indiana Jones Flash Gordon font at the end speaks to the influences that George Lucas had originally for this trilogy before it became nerd rage bait for grown men. And. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's an audience for that. And it could be fun.

[Chris Ryan]

We'll see.

[Andy Greenwald]

My main take, though, is that Disney. This is chickens coming home to roost in the sense that this looks like a fun sizzle reel for a new season of television on the Disney service. There was absolutely nothing in this that made it seem cinematic.

[Chris Ryan]

It's a teaser and they didn't have any dialogue. Not that this is a dialogue rich show in the first place, but I agree with you that it is strange that this is a show. Probably. I would imagine I do not have the data in front of me that has had, if not a declining viewership, a declining sort of Q rating.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, also, it just hasn't been around.

[Chris Ryan]

And it hasn't been around for a couple of years.

[Andy Greenwald]

And one of its seasons wasn't even it.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, yeah, it was the book of Boba Fett that turned into a Mandalorian season 2.5 or 3.5 or whatever. And so there. It's just a teaser. I'm not trying to like condemn it, but there is a feeling of. Do you remember that scene in Armageddon when they first bring Bruce Willis into NASA and they're like, you guys, we need you to drill on this asteroid to save the Earth. And he's like, this is the best you could come up with. Like, all the guys at NASA, like, this is the plan. Are you sure?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And that's kind of how I felt watching that. I was like, oh, yeah, you guys got a hut.

[Andy Greenwald]

And played by Jeremy Allen White and some giant snowbots. Like, well, it's like the same. First of all, like, can we see? Like, how hard is it to get insurance on those giant walkers for the Empire these days?

[Chris Ryan]

I see.

[Andy Greenwald]

Because.

[Chris Ryan]

Are those AT ats?

[Andy Greenwald]

No, those are the two. Those are the two footed ones.

[Chris Ryan]

And is that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Are they Imperial Walkers?

[Chris Ryan]

Do you refer to them as AT ATS or at?

[Andy Greenwald]

We've litigated this.

[Chris Ryan]

Have we? Because I feel like I call them AT ATZ when I was a kid.

[Andy Greenwald]

I did too.

[Chris Ryan]

And now I've been harshly corrected by the community.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes, the community was.

[Chris Ryan]

I got a community note.

[Andy Greenwald]

That happened.

[Chris Ryan]

But I can't remember what it was supposed to happen.

[Andy Greenwald]

That happened to both of us, I think.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

On the playgrounds of Philadelphia. Separate playgrounds. Because we didn't know each other. We were both like, you know, just talking up at ATZ and asking to go to the water fountain.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right. I was running numbers.

[Andy Greenwald]

You probably were.

[Chris Ryan]

You were observing the high holidays.

[Andy Greenwald]

Please, not on Yom Kippur. Yeah, I agree with you. Look, look, there's also an interpretation of this where I'm like, this is actually the end of an art form in the sense that. Here, Kaya, take this one. I'm gonna put it on the T for you. Because this is a Star Wars. Star Wars. They took a couple years off. Kathy took a couple years off to really like kind of 4D chess it. And they came back with a movie that could be a TV show that was filmed entirely in front of a volume starring a random person in a suit and a puppet.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And a bunch of cartoon muppets. Like, they're like, let's see. Do you know what I mean? Like, there is very, very little here that one could Sean Fantasy voice call cinema. Okay. Like, charitably. It doesn't mean that there is no place for this. I think that though, in the conversation about Lucasfilm, about Disney, about Star wars, that this is what they have when they're. It's impossible to distinguish what makes this different from a TV show. And the only other thing we have going for the larger story now that andor is done is one shot of Ryan Gosling hanging out on the ocean with a kid.

[Chris Ryan]

Which is not in the stars.

[Andy Greenwald]

Which is not in the stars. And they do not appear to be at war.

[Chris Ryan]

I was kind of trying to figure out why this came out on a Monday morning.

[Andy Greenwald]

Do you feel like Disney needed to change the narrative?

[Chris Ryan]

I was wondering if perhaps, you know, Sarah McLachlan and the Lilith crew turning their backs on Disney last night, the Weeknd. Look, I imagine that this was like, we're gonna put this out at some point, but this is like a strange way to release the teaser to the movie that you're kind of banking your next summer on.

[Andy Greenwald]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

If that's in fact what they're doing. Maybe they have some animated movie I don't know about.

[Andy Greenwald]

I genuinely don't understand what their internal perceptions or anticipation for this movie, what they are like, they could, they could be underselling it intentionally, knowing that there is a built in ceiling because it is not. It's not expanding the tent, let's say. And then maybe that speaks to a future Star wars cinematic release schedule where they spent a lot of money on Starfighter and then they release like smaller. Could have Been TV shows just to keep the. Keep the subs, keep the IP humming, keep the sub. Well, but not the subs because this isn't even on the service. So I. I find. I find it a little confusing. For sure.

[Chris Ryan]

I was wondering whether or not.

[Andy Greenwald]

Have you seen the poster?

[Chris Ryan]

I have. I thought it was.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's fun.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure. Do you think this movie would do better if they called it Grogu Demon Slayer? Apparently, K Pop Mandalorian.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Keep. Keep pitching. I keep getting. Every Monday I get this email called the Wake Up. It's from the Ankler Sean. This guy Sean McNulty writes it and, you know, as the box office returns, an analysis and every week it feels like the number one movie in the world is something called Demon Something.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's like $500 million this weekend. And I'm like, I don't know what this is.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's almost as if there's a groundswell desire to slay monsters and demons. Maybe the zeitgeist. I don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe.

[Andy Greenwald]

Do you. Do you have any. Look, as someone who tried and sadly failed to have Baby Yoda on the.

[Chris Ryan]

Podcast a few years ago, somehow my emails went unanswered.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. Do you have any concern whatsoever that we are perhaps going a little hard on.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, that we're showing the baby too much.

[Andy Greenwald]

Is this a look? I'll just speak my own truth. A couple decades ago, a show called Family Matters premiered and I was like, hey, it's Reginald Veljohnson, the co star of Die Hard. He's just a working cop who has a family. And I'm like, what better way to wind down a tough week of third grade or whatever.

[Chris Ryan]

I imagine you, like, sidling up to a grown man at a bat mitzvah, you know, and you're a kid.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And you're. You're just doing the TV Guide thing. You're like, have you seen Die Hard's Reginald Vel Johnson is making the leap to the small screen.

[Andy Greenwald]

The leap, yes. Making this small step down. But my point is, I was like, this is an enjoyable family sitcom. Then Urkel shows up, and then it becomes the Urkel show.

[Chris Ryan]

It's pandemonium.

[Andy Greenwald]

It succeeded.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Did I feel like Family Matters lost its heart that day and lost its way? I did perhaps my first hot take in the TV space. Is this an Urkel situation? Which, to be clear, would mean it would become very successful, but I wouldn't like it.

[Chris Ryan]

I. I don't know, really. I think at a certain point you have to Give the people what they want. You know what I mean? Samurai term Pretty learned that. I think Mandalorian learned that. It was not actually this monosyllabic samurai that people were tuning in for.

[Andy Greenwald]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

But the cutest thing that ever lived.

[Andy Greenwald]

Wow.

[Chris Ryan]

That's just it, man. Speaking of giving people what they want, can I just bounce something off you here?

[Andy Greenwald]

This is what we're here for.

[Chris Ryan]

Leonardo DiCaprio's apparently gonna be in Heat 2.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, we talked about that. Right.

[Chris Ryan]

Did we really get into it?

[Andy Greenwald]

No, we can get into it more. So the timeline of this is Michael Mann writes or co writes the book Heat 2. And then it becomes very clear through word and deed and gossip that making this into a film, it's like a.

[Chris Ryan]

Proof of concept for a sequel. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

But he spent the last few years basically behind the scenes being like, this is my next work. This has to happen. And there are all these rumors about potential casting, about collaborators. There was all this talk that like the Bear season four shoot was like in the background. All of those actors were like weapons training to be in Heat too.

[Chris Ryan]

There were rumors.

[Andy Greenwald]

And then there was a. Then the next rumor was Apple or whomever was balking at the price tag that Michael Warner Brothers. Warner was right. Who had the rights. There was $200 million, no go. But that if Leonardo DiCaprio agreed to join the cast.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I think that there was like a Bellany or something. Somebody wrote a column where it was like it would need Leonardo DiCaprio to warrant this price tag, which would also.

[Andy Greenwald]

Then maybe bring on Apple as a co investor potentially. Even though you would, you know, this. I don't know. This is DiCaprio older now than De Niro was when he played Neil in the original. Not that that matters anymore.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he is. But also maybe has taken better care of his skin than Robert De Niro did leading up to Heat. So you can kind of stretch it a little bit.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay. But anyway, now it's been announced.

[Chris Ryan]

No, it has not really been announced. It's been real.

[Andy Greenwald]

Was like, this is a go.

[Chris Ryan]

And other places have reported a bit on it, but it's. Man did an appearance in Busan at the film festival over the weekend and was like, I am getting ready. I am budgeting. I am in pre pro. We would like to shoot next year. That being said, because. And when I say this to people, quote unquote, I am saying it to me. I'm saying it to me to temper my expectations.

[Andy Greenwald]

I appreciate that.

[Chris Ryan]

And to get ready for like some. Some bumps in The Road. I just want to point out that there has also been another filmmaker that I love, Martin Scorsese. And it's been like, what's Martin Scorsese doing after Killers of the Flower Moon? Like, when is this? When is this? He's going to make another movie and is he going to make a Frank Sinatra movie? Is he going to make a Jesus movie? Is he going to make. There was a full on full court press announcement that he was making a Hawaii gangster movie last, like, months with the Rock. With the Rock and Emily Blunt. And it was like, this is happening. This is Martin Scorses. It's like Casino in Hawaii and it's Luo Casino. Yes. And it was like, go, go, go. And now Dwayne Johnson's probably going to get nominated for Smashing Machine. Yeah. For an Oscar. And it was like, it's like, this is rolling downhill. This is happening. And then last week, kind of quiet as kept, it was like, Martin Scorsese has found his next movie. It's a thriller with Jennifer Lawrence and Leonardo DiCaprio.

[Andy Greenwald]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

Everybody was like, Leonardo DiCaprio has this goatee. And all this, all these one battle after another, promo stuff. He must be getting ready to play Neil. Like, they're doing it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Goatees notoriously take a long time to grow.

[Chris Ryan]

For me, it's like all of COVID I couldn't even get there. And no one cared. No one was like, cool mustache. And it was your fault because cameras don't pick up nuance. But you could have seen it and you could have been like, dude, you look good and you didn't do it.

[Andy Greenwald]

You do look good. But I didn't know what you were doing. I didn't know what was going on.

[Chris Ryan]

I was just expected more from you, you know?

[Andy Greenwald]

Wow. I did not think that's where our conversation about heat, too, would go. But it is a personal subject for you, so bring your own heat.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm trying to temper my expectations and protect myself from being hurt because lots of stuff happens in this crazy town called Hollywood. And, you know, the way that things get announced is often not actually in sync with where they are in development or where they are in shooting. Often you'll see, like, Rosemary DeWitt has joined this cast. And it's like, Rosemary DeWitt shot her part.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's like, nobody wants this season to add Seth Rogen to cast. I'm like, that wrapped months ago.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, right. So I think that really what we're talking about here is just like, fingers crossed. I note with interest that he has the goatee. I note with interest that they have now pretty much, you know, like, if it's Driver as somehow as Pacino.

[Andy Greenwald]

Are they. Are they going to do the thing where they, like, film him in, like, the reverse Hagrid where like, he's just half the size he actually is?

[Chris Ryan]

It's like. It's literally like, honey, I shrunk.

[Andy Greenwald]

Adam Driver, instead of an apple box, they dig a small apple box level that's right below.

[Chris Ryan]

And then I don't know what's going on with the possibility of the Chris sequel. Oh, no, he's Heat too.

[Andy Greenwald]

There's two for the Normies. The book picks up. It's two storylines. There's a prequel part about Neil in Chicago. In Chicago with Vincent. With Vincent. Not like with him. Like in a cohabitation.

[Chris Ryan]

Each other. Like birds, you know?

[Andy Greenwald]

Absolutely. Classic birds.

[Chris Ryan]

Classic birds.

[Andy Greenwald]

Remember the scene where birds go to a diner together and everyone's like, finally, these birds are sharing a table in my mouth. Yeah, that's exactly what they say.

[Chris Ryan]

And then there is a sequel element. That is Chris after the events of Heat.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's Val Kilmer.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Going, I believe, to, like, the Triple frontier area area and like, working security for a triad.

[Andy Greenwald]

Two questions. One, this is. I mean, Austin Butler was born to do that part, right? Like, just that. That's.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

Two, at this point, when you go to quote, the triple frontier area, is it like going to the four corners in the US where there's just like little shops advertising your chance?

[Chris Ryan]

Welcome to the Triple front tv.

[Andy Greenwald]

Like, do a little narco terrorism while you're here or do you want to, like, everyone's going there these days. Oh, God.

[Chris Ryan]

When are they going to make the triple Frontier? Shared universe.

[Andy Greenwald]

When are they going to make Triple Frontier? Two, six frontiers or something?

[Chris Ryan]

Fourth frontier, like Night of the Soldado and have the Brolin character from Sicario on all the guys together. I will say for true man men. We are also tracking with interest Joseph Kaczynski and Dan Gilroy's Miami Vice.

[Andy Greenwald]

We are all interested in this and.

[Chris Ryan]

The dream casting of that being Austin Butler and Aaron Pierre.

[Andy Greenwald]

And do we want that?

[Chris Ryan]

I. I don't know.

[Andy Greenwald]

I don't know either.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't. Joseph Kaczynski, frankly, doesn't really miss, like, it. It may not be Hamlet, but it's gonna look fucking cool.

[Andy Greenwald]

And you get a Gilroy on the script at this point.

[Chris Ryan]

Emmy winning.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm Gilroy agnostic. Yeah. All respect to Tony, just could be John, could be Rose, I don't care Give me a Gilroy on it. I'm very excited about that.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you have anything that in your life that you feel like is your heat too the thing you can't wait.

[Andy Greenwald]

For, for it to happen.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

When you grow a beard again. I have been tracking trades. Like I think one day it could happen but you never know when it's going to pop off or pop out. I.

[Chris Ryan]

What if I. What if I did like the turkey hair transplant? But it was just.

[Andy Greenwald]

But I would. That's it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, that's it. The Wayne Rooney. But it's just for a cool mustache.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I just have like Tom Selleck Magnum PI Mustache.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think it would be amazing. We would all support you.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think that just from the one thing I will say for sure from having worked in and around this town is that movies are absolute chaos and no movies are happening until the second they hit roll.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Hit roll. It's classic movie talk. Hit roll. Guys. We got the actor. No, but like the deal's coming together. Like everything is seat of your pants until you're suddenly there and things have fallen apart at the 11th hour and things have come together at the 11th and a half hour. So I wouldn't worry so much about Scorsese saying he's doing this that it's somehow going to preclude DiCaprio doing something else.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm sure you're right.

[Andy Greenwald]

He could shave, he could go quick trip to Istanbul, have a new face.

[Chris Ryan]

Beard put on the only thing with Marty and Michael, both men getting up there in years. Oh, you worry about the time is of the essence.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is. You know what though? There's one thing we've learned recently. This absolutely is a country for old men.

[Chris Ryan]

That's true. Like it's good news for us.

[Andy Greenwald]

That was that title was not.

[Chris Ryan]

We got a long Runway still to play with.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's going to be great.

[Chris Ryan]

All right, let's take a quick break. We'll come back, we'll talk about task. This episode is brought to you by Pretty Litter. Living with more than one cat means you've got double the cuddles and double the litter duty. But Pretty Litter makes things so much easier. Not only does it control odors and last longer than other litter, it also keeps you ahead of health issues. The color changing crystals actually flag fluctuations in your cat's urine. How about that? Plus Pretty Litter ships free right to your door. So no heavy bags to carry and no last minute pet store runs right now. Save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy@pretty litter.com watch. That's prettylitter.com watch to save 20% on your first order, get a free cat toy. Prettylitter.com watch Pretty Litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. C site for details. All right, we are back. Task Episode 3 Nobody's stronger than Forgiveness Written by Brad Inglesby, Directed by Sally Richardson Whitfield, who has become. Who's the guy who did Tim Van Patten, who was always like the HBO in house, like, Nailed, Band of Brothers and Deadwood.

[Andy Greenwald]

And Mylod was like that a little bit too.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, Mylod. She's worked on Winning Time, Gilded Age eps on both those shows, I believe. And it does a great job with this episode. First major, major set piece, I think it's fair to say. Well, I guess the robbery in the first episode, but she did.

[Andy Greenwald]

There were some beautiful touches that really split the difference between, like, aesthetic, show off y director stuff and storytelling. Like, there's a moment when we meet. What's his name, Freddy for the first time.

[Chris Ryan]

Yep.

[Andy Greenwald]

And we meet him going through, like.

[Chris Ryan]

The war in the kitchen and then the Edu thing. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's a beautiful shot that was not calling attention to itself, but really, really drew us further into the story. It's these little details that add up. I loved it.

[Chris Ryan]

I want to start by saying, well, first of all, I thought this was a great episode.

[Andy Greenwald]

This was a great episode.

[Chris Ryan]

I want to highlight two scenes to start with first. We kind of skipped over her when we first were talking about the show. But Tuso and Bettu's performance in the interrogation of Shelley and her anecdote, her monologue about her own experience with domestic violence and even watching this show, you're just kind of like, oh, it's interesting because, you know, Brandis tells her, go in there and get close to her and has no idea. You know, I imagine that this is what she's gonna do, that she's gonna open up to make herself vulnerable. But I thought her performance was really powerful in that. And I gotta talk to you about what is my favorite scene of the year?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes, sure.

[Chris Ryan]

Which is Lizzie and Grasso at the State Trooper bar.

[Andy Greenwald]

Incredible.

[Chris Ryan]

Bruce Springsteen into Mother Love Bone. Please drop a pin in this fucking bar for me. DJ CR on the decks so I can go. And I would like to just. You. You. I'm gonna give you a statement. You say whether you agree or disagree.

[Andy Greenwald]

All right.

[Chris Ryan]

Allison Oliver.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes. Here we go.

[Chris Ryan]

Is to drunk Philly girl acting what Daniel Day Lewis is to Abraham Lincoln.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think that's. I think that's setting the bar too low.

[Chris Ryan]

It's an understatement.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think she is to Philly drunk girl acting what Daniel Day Lewis is to acting. Like, there is a moment. There are plenty of moments in this episode that I want to call out, that I want to celebrate, including the beautiful filming of my high school hangout, the Lanark Diner.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

But there is a moment when. What's the dialogue? When Lizzie says. She says, like, you know, DJ not getting any ass inova or whatever. And he's just like, well, it's kind of true these days. And he looks away and her face lights up. And I was like, just. This is an Emmy moment. This is like everything in that smile and in her eyes. That is an actor who is vibrating on the frequency of art and Yingling in a way that speaks to my soul.

[Chris Ryan]

There's also the second. The point at the conversation when he. I think. When he kind of. What she thinks is that he has noticed that she is an outcast among her fellow. Fellow trooper. And he's like, yeah, I forgot I have to do something after, like three Yinglings and shots. He's.

[Andy Greenwald]

He's hiding it well.

[Chris Ryan]

He's doing well. He's handling his booze well. And her reaction is, but I just bought a new pack. Did you.

[Andy Greenwald]

I was like, was that like, sing to me in your voice.

[Chris Ryan]

That is the point on Love is Blind when I kneel. That is the point where it's just like, what do you want from me? And I'll give it. I can't tell you what happened when Chloe Dancer came on in the bar. I just. I. I seriously don't know if I have ever been in a bar where Chloe Dancer came on. But it's so, so beautiful to have like, the piano part as, like, she's going through this, like, experience of trying to keep up her sort of steely exterior, even though her life is spinning out of control. And she's just had this giant fuck up at work. Just an awesome scene. And it's really what I think Inglesby does best is it's not necessarily the crime. I've seen some people comment like, this mystery is kind of unraveled already. Like, it's. It's about, like, the people who are caught up in it.

[Andy Greenwald]

I. I want to talk about one of Brad. Can we call. We can call him Brad. One of his superpowers is if you.

[Chris Ryan]

Want to keep it, Mr. Ingoldsby, if you want to write for the New York Times.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think he has particular set of skills as a writer that are very impressive. And one of them I think we'll spend more time on, which is just his sense of scaffolding and architecture and how he builds a season and how he pays off tension while moving the story forward in ways that are very, very subtle and very, very artful. But you mentioned it already. So I think we should focus first on something that he does that is particularly exceptional, which is something that in the wrong hands is one of the worst and least rewarding crutches of a mid writer. The hero ball ISO play where a character introduces him or herself with a self definitional monologue that has to at once, you know, completely draw the attention of everyone actually in the room. Freddy or Alia or Aaliyah. There's two of them in this episode and there's been a series of them. He is God tier at this, at writing these monologues and casting them so that they actually feel lived in and less like a ball stopper being like, thank you for visiting me. I'm here to say something that I would have said anyway into my mirror. But it's, you know, it's convenient that you happen to be here. Elvis. And Alasko is the actor who plays Freddie. And that also is just a masterclass in controlling heat while cooking.

[Chris Ryan]

We got a lot of emails about whether or not he pronounced Lancaster. Right.

[Andy Greenwald]

He did not.

[Chris Ryan]

But do you want to go into how it is properly enunciated?

[Andy Greenwald]

No. Because here's the thing. We are so deep in the weeds now that if we get it slightly wrong or if we say it in a way that it's not said in Newtown Square.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Or Upper Darby. No. We're doomed. You know what I mean? Forget about how they say it in Bruno.

[Chris Ryan]

We feel like we're throwing a no hitter and we can't possibly afford. We cannot two guys who often need to google what day it is or.

[Andy Greenwald]

How many episodes in the middle of the show. Yeah, okay, but I thought that like, the words that Brad Inglesby gives him in this scene are compelling, they're captivating, they're a little bit fucked, they're funny. But it's communicating something. It's giving a full life to someone who I imagine we'll see this character again, but we might not like in the same way that Ray. Who do you have the actor who plays Ray?

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, it is Peter Patrickos, who is also A junkie on Dope Thief, but has done is like a working, lifelong character actor. And I don't know, he's astonishing. Like, he's so good. Just the fact that they were like, he refs men's rec league basketball and have him in his, like, his stripes and his Foot Locker outfit is just so perfect and like, just, you know, everything about him and his wife Shelly, that he's a piece of shit, that she's scared of him, that he's supposed to be on the straight and narrow, that his two kids are drugged out on video games, and that he has been waiting for somebody to come to his door and be like, do you want to get in on some action from the second he got home from prison? And that he is desperate.

[Andy Greenwald]

So let's, I mean, let's talk about the art that's happening, like, in the subtle ways of this show. I feel like. And I feel like this has been recently with Alien 2. I'm turning into like, Paul Goldberger, architecture critic, when we talk about tv. But there's so many shows right now and we're so many new shows starting off, and so I'm starting to pay more attention and I think appreciate more the scaffolding, the blueprint, that's clearly done ahead of time as to where this is going. And with a show like this.

[Chris Ryan]

He'S.

[Andy Greenwald]

Doing a very, very impressive job not moving the ball forward every episode. So Cliff is now blown. The Darkheart's path towards Robbie as well as the task force path towards Robbie is very, very clear and likely short. Like, I don't think we can keep those plates in the air for all of the four episodes remaining in the show. And I don't think they're afraid of that. What's impressive to me is that in addition to moving things forward at a relatively healthy clip, so we do not feel like we're being stalled in order to, you know, show off or indulge things. He's doing something that in lesser hands can feel like the red herring of the week. So usually in murder mystery shows, ones that we love and ones that we nitpick, the way that they become eight episode series instead of movies is each week introduces a new likely suspect and clears that suspect so that there's something to investigate, some stake for the next episode before finally revealing the ultimate person. This is a crime show without any mystery, really, about who did the crimes.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And now we have to wonder who's the rat on the task force. But it's kind of. You could do some process of elimination.

[Andy Greenwald]

And we should get to that.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

What this episode did is introduce Rhae and Shelley, give them, like you said, a full illustration of inner lives, of conflict, of past, of history. And. And that's the story of the episode that gives us the action sequence. Their story doesn't really matter past this episode, but that does the job of the red herring of the week in a way that feels so distracting and engaging that you don't notice any kind of water being tread.

[Chris Ryan]

You touched on something really interesting, which is that the conception that we had of this show, that it was a cat and mouse thriller of a cop and a criminal driven by some of the same things, could very well be over next week. Like if the pace continues at this clip. Like there is a. What is the second half of this show about? And I wanted to bring up an email that we got a couple of weeks ago from someone named Tom and I thought this was fascinating. Got it? No, but I didn't know where to fit it in and I wasn't really sure what he was getting into. I'll just read the email from Tom. I enjoyed watching the first episode of Task and listening to your podcast about it. There's a note in the show that I thought you might want to get into. In the scene where Brandis's old friend visits him, the the priest friend who visits him, the friend mentions having sent Brandis an article by Richard Rohr. Brandis, who is drunk, responds by mocking roars, theology of the Universal Christ pounding the table, asking is Christ in this table? And then standing up, rattling off the name of other Catholic theologians who he doesn't want to hear about anymore because he has all the info he needs on his Phillies cup, which is full of booze. I was surprised to hear Richard Rohr mentioned. He is known among. He's well known among people, but not very famous. I know about him because my father in law got interested in Rohr's second half of life framework and we talked about it for a while. I suspect that the person who made this show has a deep interest in this topic of second half of life and perhaps other Francis ideas in the Franciscan contemplative practice.

[Andy Greenwald]

Kaya, you're going to clip this part, right?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, this is the good stuff. So I looked into this a little bit.

[Andy Greenwald]

I mean, clip it for Instagram. I think Chris reading emails should be on all of our socials.

[Chris Ryan]

I looked into this a little bit. Richard Rohr is probably best known for a book called Falling Upward. And this is an excerpt from from Falling upward.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

There is much evidence on several levels that there are at least two major tasks to human life. The first task is to build a strong container or identity. The second is to find the contents that the container was meant to hold.

[Andy Greenwald]

What are you talking about? Phillies cups.

[Chris Ryan]

The first task we take for granted is the very purpose of life, which does not mean we do it well. The second task, I'm told, is more encountered than sought. Few arrive at it with much pre planning, purpose or passion. We all try to do what seems like the task that life first hands us. Establishing an identity, a home, relationships, friends, community, security, and building a proper platform for our only life. But it takes us much longer to discuss, to discover the task within the task, as I like to call it. What are we really doing when we are doing what we are doing?

[Andy Greenwald]

And to be clear, you said what are not. Wooder.

[Chris Ryan]

Wooder. It's not about water. I wonder what the second half the season is going to be about.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's. First of all, that's fascinating.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I'm like, I feel like Pablo Torre right now. I'm like, let's get Richard Rohr in here.

[Andy Greenwald]

I love what it does to the title of the show. I love what it says about look, all of the really, really kind of exciting and provocative ideas in that email that also in the theology makes sense to me in the sense that this is a deep. We are responding to it because it is very entertaining and there's peach rings with Tajin on them sprinkled throughout in ways that are delicious and surprising. And broadly speaking, this week is the episode where I completely stopped clock watching. Not just that the episodes are long, but like, where are we going with the storyline? This is the week. In the parlance of our time, this is the week task became a TV show to me in the best possible way. All of that is true. The truly great shows that engage us either as viewers or on the podcast have that secondary task, if you will, of probing deeper and being worthy of that level of conversation or insight. And so that you can watch it on the first pass and be like, that was really wild. Or Tom sure seems to be suffering. I hope they get the kid back second time. You could, whether people still write or read essays anymore, write an essay about the Phillies cup and filling it up and what that means for this man who has been so emptied out by the choices he made in life.

[Chris Ryan]

And I think you have to take a second when you see something as honestly gorgeous as Maeve showing Sam how to swim.

[Andy Greenwald]

Very beautiful.

[Chris Ryan]

Which Looks like a baptism, which is obviously this moment in nature, away from the chaos of, you know, lefties, tap room and drug dens and everything else, and wonder why a moment like that is in there and why it's shot where it's shot and shot so beautifully and so tenderly and, you know, start to consider, like, some of the obvious religious overtones. Look at the title of the episode, you know, like, so what. What are we. Where are we going with this? This is something that I think will start to get revealed over the next episode or two.

[Andy Greenwald]

We'll get a chance to talk to him about this. But. But Brad went to Villanova. He did. You know, in a way, we. We. We started our partnership at Villanova within spitting distance. Not on the basketball team, but we went to the diner.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Not the Lanark diner that night. I think the idea.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you see that Temple played Oklahoma the other week and they got destroyed. But in football, Oklahoma's band couldn't come for some reason, I think weather. And so St. Joe's just let were like, you can use our band.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's nice.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought that was uncalled for on St. Joe's part.

[Andy Greenwald]

You think they shouldn't have done it.

[Chris Ryan]

It's big five rules, you know.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, they did it also because it's big five. And they were like, we are on the team. We are on the team of the team playing Temple.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. It's like enemy of my enemy, you know?

[Andy Greenwald]

So you don't.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't. I don't. I don't condone it. I think that's.

[Andy Greenwald]

First of all, you're playing all the sides against each other because you're like, I love Temple. I went to Temple. But then also, like, you're a Phil Martelli disciple.

[Chris Ryan]

I went to St. Joe's basketball camp.

[Andy Greenwald]

So where does your allegiance lie? Okay, pick a side.

[Chris Ryan]

Is there no. No way to just be a center?

[Andy Greenwald]

There's no nuance anymore in this country. The idea of looking at things as vessels that exist as one concept or one space, then how they're filled, I think is relevant to. In both Brad's understanding of the region that he is documenting and the way that it is shot. Because one thing. We talked about this briefly when we talked about the pilot. I think the one thing that might be surprising to people who have not spent time in the suburbs of Philadelphia and its surrounding counties is how rural it can be, how beautiful, how green.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And I was thinking about that observation again last night when Cliff and Robbie go to visit Rhae and The establishing shot, it looks like Mayberry. It is absolutely beautiful. The houses with stately porches and wood columns and beams and the mountain just behind it. This is a vision of America, you know, in the best way possible. And even when you walk into the house, when he lets them in or Shelley steps aside and lets them in, like, house has good bones, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not trying to do Chip and Joanna, not trying to do $100,000 listing here, but I'm like, you know, it's similar to where Robbie and Maeve live, and they have chickens, and it's out. And there's a. There's a different way into this world where you're like, this is a place that people would retire to. Like, this is fine. Owning a home, having outdoors. Like, isn't that what it's supposed to be? But what is the content of this beautiful green vessel these days? It's fentanyl and rage and impotence and sadness, which is not really a good recipe.

[Chris Ryan]

We got to meet Margarita Levieva's character, Aaron, a little bit.

[Andy Greenwald]

You called it.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, you called it. You don't call the bat phone for Margarita unless you're gonna, like, do something with her, you know?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, but I. Look, you just read this text.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that they, you know, they were just fainting too much with Shane, you know?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes. Although, again, this is the. That ties into the observation I want to make about how some of the more practical structural stuff is just done artfully. Where last week when we were talking about episode two, I was like, maybe Shane is the mole because he's acting sketchy. Yeah, he's not. But him acting sketchy is intentional and put in front of us. So we have that reaction, and then that Perry and the dark hearts have that reaction. So it's not wasted space. It's not a red herring that is going to be the next thing that gets dealt with, and probably probably not well for Shane.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, and then on the flip side of that, you've got what will probably be an. I've not watched episode four, but will probably be a mole hunt. Right. Like on. Yeah, on. On Brandis's part. It doesn't look great for Grassanova just because he came out so strong in the first episode with a lot of Wikipedia intel about the dark hearts.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I do not think it is Aaliyah.

[Andy Greenwald]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

So the zag would be Lizzie.

[Andy Greenwald]

Right. But are they leaning too hard on the Lizzie's a mess kind of thing? I think that I don't Know how to do odds. And I don't understand what Fanduel does, but I would say that Grasso would be the.

[Chris Ryan]

He's the betting favorite. Yes. What else in the episode did you want to hit?

[Andy Greenwald]

Don't you think he's also the favorite because of a, How. How likable he is being? I feel like it's an intentional misdirect, but B, he walked into lefties like you walk into lefties. You know what I mean? Like, you're like, I. The two of them walking into lefties was a. Was kind of.

[Chris Ryan]

It was kind of like norm.

[Andy Greenwald]

It was kind of like us walking in there or like one of. One of the two is a little bit like, okay, okay. We all know I don't belong here, and I don't want to be here.

[Chris Ryan]

And Grasso's, like, talking shit.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

To meeting the big balls society at lefties.

[Chris Ryan]

Krasanova, he's gonna break your heart. I mean, there's. I'm sure there's nuance to it. I don't think it's just gonna be like, you big rat. I'm sure he'll be like, look, Robbie's.

[Andy Greenwald]

Brother fell into the arms of the dark hearts. I mean, hearts is in their name.

[Chris Ryan]

The arms of Margarita La Veva. He didn't fall in.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know, so she's worth it for you. That's your. That's your. You're like. Generally, you. You abhor.

[Chris Ryan]

If you want me to push uncut fentanyl across county law, you gotta make.

[Andy Greenwald]

It worth your while.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I just mean I think that the. The connections between the group of the people that we have met probably go much deeper than we. We know.

[Andy Greenwald]

Did you have any. As someone who spent time there, went to college there, did you have any insight into the role Boston and the Ecuadorians might be playing?

[Chris Ryan]

Just can't comment.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, really?

[Chris Ryan]

Still sealed? Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Statue of limitations hasn't run out?

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Andy Greenwald]

Did you. What was the name of the place that we used to have breakfast in Back Bay? Charlie's.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, still there.

[Andy Greenwald]

A lot of Ecuadorian.

[Chris Ryan]

I took Sean there when we were in Boston. For the whole show? Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Was there still the frame photo of Tim Dog?

[Chris Ryan]

You know what? I didn't see it.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think about it.

[Chris Ryan]

I wonder if he's been canceled.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think about it all the time.

[Chris Ryan]

Cancel Culture came from Tim Dog, didn't it say.

[Andy Greenwald]

It said, fuck Compton, right?

[Chris Ryan]

It. That was his song. I don't know if he said it on the paint in the picture.

[Andy Greenwald]

He did.

[Chris Ryan]

What do you got it for Charlie's. For keeping it. Keeping it blue. I don't have anything else, really, other than.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, we hit it all, I don't think. I feel like Cliff. I mean, if we were going to do numbers on the, like, the McBain Live Forever speech, I feel like Cliff's not.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I know.

[Andy Greenwald]

Cliff's not doing great.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Cliff's a little worried. He's a little upset.

[Chris Ryan]

And too many people know his name.

[Andy Greenwald]

Now and his home.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

I thought that there, like, again, it just understanding the nuance of the story. There's so many moving pieces. There's so many characters, but there's also just, you know, the balancing act between the larger. The bigger shoes dropping in terms of who's doing what to whom and how it's gonna. And then why. You preload an episode like this with a little bit more of Robbie and Maeve, which was touched on at the end of last episode. And not only are both Amelia. What's her name? Amelia Jones, and Tom Pelfrey amazing in the scene. And the two of them in their real accents talking to each other, which I saw on the HBO Max Instagram account, is really wild.

[Chris Ryan]

Pelfrey was at the Eagles game.

[Andy Greenwald]

Must have been agony for him. But Ruffalo was wearing birds. He's wearing, like, a Dawkins jersey. He was like, fully. Can we welcome him?

[Chris Ryan]

I think so.

[Andy Greenwald]

He seems like a great guy. I feel like he knows he's rolling with the winners right now. No, just that in the Robbie scene, what he says in that scene about, you know, Jason shook my hand with the same hand he used to beat your father's brains out. And, like, there's gotta be a reason for all of this, and he needs to make, you know, it's a religious almost purpose out of this.

[Chris Ryan]

It can't just be that this is something that happened to us.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's a showcase scene for the actor. It's a breakout scene for the emotional inner life of the character. But it also is just a smartly placed hedge against the kind of nitpicking conversation that can spring up in a show like this. Like, he knows they're on borrowed time, and yet he is still very much living under his name in his house with his children.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I also like the fact that he's hanging onto this, like, I need a million dollars for my family and to get out of. It's like, this isn't a Bruce Springsteen song, man. Like a Love Bone song. Exactly.

[Andy Greenwald]

And those end up a lot different.

[Chris Ryan]

We could wrap there did you recognize.

[Andy Greenwald]

The Lanark Diner in that scene? So I was thrilled. I have to say, for a moment.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought I have been pretty nerdy about the locations. So the first episode, I think I spent too much time trying to create and then found out the Inquirer was just making a map of the location. Philadelphia. The Philadelphia Inquirer. So I don't need to be like, how far would it be to get from. Like, from this place in Chester to this place?

[Andy Greenwald]

But were you trying to treat it like collateral?

[Chris Ryan]

As people come out of stuff, I try to see, like, if they're a sign. And then I saw it was Lanark.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. So that diner, it's like four minutes from the house I grew up in. That was where we went after high school, like, all the time.

[Chris Ryan]

Mozzarella sticks and black coffee. The world's breakfast champions.

[Andy Greenwald]

That is of all the things that I've said out loud on this show that everyone was like, that's not normal, bro. That is the one I will stand by. Okay, that is a classic teenage order. I inherited that order. I wasn't like, let me look at this whole menu. No snapper soup for me today, fellas. I want that and that. That's what the older kids got. And I was like, I want to be like them. I'm not gonna be smoking those cigarettes and running numbers like CR downtown. Just give me some fried cheese, and I'm good. I briefly thought that they had only done the exteriors there and shot the interior somewhere else because they dressed the shit out of it. They put in, like, very moody window shades and stuff, so it did not look the way it looked in my time in the interior or in Silver Linings Playbook, which also filmed there.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right. Let's wrap there.

[Andy Greenwald]

That was exciting.

[Chris Ryan]

I was. I was thrilled for you. Thanks to Kaya, thanks to Kai, thanks to John, thanks to our listeners, thanks.

[Andy Greenwald]

To our email writers, and thanks to.

[Chris Ryan]

Our incredibly intelligent theologians, My theologian. Email writer, saving our show. We'll be back on Thursday for the finale of Alien Earth.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And the first two episodes of the Lowdown.

[Andy Greenwald]

And say hi to Ethan and Sterling for me.

[Chris Ryan]

I will, brother.