The Case for Watching ‘Paradise’ E7. Plus, ‘The Pitt’ E10 and Remembering Gene Hackman

Summary

The Watch – Episode Summary

Podcast: The Watch
Host: The Ringer
Episode: The Case for Watching ‘Paradise’ E7. Plus, ‘The Pitt’ E10 and Remembering Gene Hackman
Date: March 7, 2025
Hosts: Chris Ryan & Andy Greenwald

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Episode Overview

This lively episode dives into two very different but buzzworthy TV series: the high-concept disaster drama Paradise and the acclaimed medical series The Pitt. Chris and Andy offer deep-dive takes on the recent standout episodes of each, explore the rare pleasures of broadcast-style storytelling, and take time to honor the legacy of Gene Hackman. The conversation is rich with cultural references, inside jokes, and reflects the hosts' signature blend of insight and irreverent banter.

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1. Remembering Gene Hackman (Starts ~08:28)

Key Points and Discussion

• Gene Hackman's Death: Andy and Chris reflect on the actor’s passing, his retirement, and the emotional impact of losing a “once-in-a-generation” talent.
• “Greatest American actor”:

  "I just wanted to take a moment on the microphone to say, like, I think he's the greatest American actor."
  — Andy Greenwald (09:08)

• Hackman’s Range: The hosts recall Hackman’s capacity to do everything from comedy (The Birdcage) to menace (Unforgiven), all with a completely unique presence.
  • Favorite roles discussed: Night Moves, The Conversation, French Connection, The Firm, Royal Tenenbaums.
• Cultural Context: They discuss generational shifts in celebrity deaths and a sense of personal loss as “the faces we grew up watching” begin to pass away.

Notable Quotes

“He’s so good because…he walks into a room and other characters are kind of afraid of him…But in the first 10 minutes of the movie, he is also cuckolded. And he looks so sad about it. There just aren't actors who can do that wide range of a performance.”
— Andy (12:08)

"He was always kind of a cranky old man, even in his younger days."
— Chris (12:49)

Timestamps:

• 08:28 – Hackman tribute begins
• 09:40 – Comparison to Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
• 10:26 – Hackman as part of 'character actors become stars' wave

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2. Paradise, Episode 7 Deep Dive (Starts ~13:54)

General Impressions

• Paradise was almost dropped early in the season, but the hosts are now fully on board after the game-changing seventh episode.
• Episode 7 ("The Day") is highlighted as a series (and perhaps year) best:

  “I don't wanna say…redeems…But it was like, this is incredible television.”
  — Chris (21:04)

Key Plot Points

• Premise: Episode covers hours before a world-ending disaster (Antarctic volcano and ensuing mega-tsunami) as Washington’s elite race to a Colorado bunker.
• Structure and Tension: The episode plays as a fast-paced, adrenaline-filled countdown, balancing “sincerity and hysteria.” Directed by Glenn Ficarra and John Requa.
• Broadcast DNA: The hosts argue that Paradise is a throwback to broadcast TV’s willingness to "really go for it," in both scope and melodrama.

  “Paradise has that baked into its insane DNA. And I really, really respect it.”
  — Andy (23:37)

Character and Story Insights

• **Sterling K. Brown (Xavier Collins) is a stand-out as the Secret Service man at the heart of the episode’s panic and emotional core.
• Meta and Satirical Aspects: The show vividly critiques oligarchical disaster planning (“the Versailles Group”), pokes fun at TV tropes, and goes big on disaster spectacle and emotional stakes.
• Batshit Appeal: Yes, the show is bonkers—but that’s a key part of its entertainment value.

  “I feel like any conversation about Paradise must…say that it is cuckoo birds.”
  — Andy (21:35)

Notable Quotes

“The sincerity with which they are treating the subject matter…is deadly, deadly serious and very emo, and on top of that, every time you’re like, ‘there’s nowhere else for this to go’…they’re like, ‘what if we also had to deal with this?’”
— Chris (20:53)

“This show is so free of the pomposity and the portentousness of so much prestige TV.”
— Andy (30:19)

Timestamps:

• 13:54 – “Let’s talk about Paradise”
• 15:45 – The bunker and disaster explained
• 17:43 – Technical breakdown of the disaster sequence
• 21:35 – “Paradise must as a caveat...it is cuckoo birds”
• 24:26 – Cal’s (the President) breakdown and crowd panic
• 27:52 – Texting through the end of the world
• 30:36 – Comparing Paradise with Zero Day and commentary on TV seriousness

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3. Paradise, Finale and Season-wide Thoughts (starts ~31:12)

• The Show Loves a Wild Twist: The finale pivots to fringe characters and double-crosses, keeping viewers off-balance with “Lost-style” narrative swerves.
• “False Trent” and Narrative Excess: The show embraces tropes like sudden reveals, secret identities, and bonkers plot setups.
• Role of “The Versailles” List: Satirical dig at apocalypse plans that privilege elites, with hosts riffing on how they’d stack their own survivor lists.

“On this show, there is a massive, massive plot plank, which is that in recreating society…they recreate a classic neighborhood diner that serves that classic dish that sucks: cheese fries. Can you believe it? It’s cashew cheese. Which—barf.”
— Andy (35:48)

Cultural and Thematic Commentary

• Why Paradise Resonates: The hosts compare the joy of Paradise and Land Man with the self-importance of much “prestige” TV, finding that sometimes “a wild ride” is more enjoyable than puzzle-box complexity.

“These shows are fucking crazy and they're entertaining...it's not just about solving rational, reasonable, complicated puzzles. It's also about just having a wild ride sometimes.”
— Andy (40:07)

Timestamps:

• 31:12 – Finale and “False Trent” discussion
• 38:20 – “Versailles List” and Survivor picks
• 40:07 – Why they’re drawn to out-there shows like Paradise and Land Man

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4. The Pitt, Episode 10 Analysis (Starts ~51:13)

Emotional Highs & Lows

• Most Anticipated Viewing: Andy: “It is the show that I look forward to the most watching at the moment every week.”
• Big Episode Moment: The gut-punch scene where beloved character Dana is attacked.

  "There’s a lot of really breathtaking moments…I'll never forget where I was when Dana got punched in the face on The Pitt."
  — Chris (51:36)

Show's Storytelling DNA

• Broadcast-Style Strength: The Pitt excels at rapidly making viewers care deeply about a sprawling, “That Guy” ensemble—evoking the emotional immediacy and attachment of ‘90s TV.
• Balancing Social Commentary: Sometimes the show veers into clunky didacticism (“Greek chorus of all the nurses just spouting Huffington Post facts about violence in hospitals”) right after its most effective, gripping scenes.
• Narrative Innovation: The 15-episode, real-time structure introduces both highs—unpredictable emotional reach—and some loose threads or unevenness in plotting (e.g., unresolved subplots).

Plot and Character Developments

• Addiction Reveal: Dramatic reveal that Dr. Langdon (Patrick Ball) is stealing medication to self-treat, framed as a sharp workplace intervention.

  "Langdon has been stealing benzos to wean himself off of painkillers...and it's a searing scene..."
  — Chris (65:17)

• Case-of-the-Week Structure: Episodes frequently tackle wrenching or ripped-from-headline cases (drowned child, human trafficking suspect, incel patient, etc.) often leaving storylines deliberately unresolved.

• Noah Wyle's Lead Performance: Praised as “the performance of the year” for its breadth and genuine emotional impact.

• Cast Continuity: Discussion about which characters might return, and how the time-jumping structure could work in future seasons.

Notable Quotes

“The number of that guys and that gals on the show that I feel deeply, deeply emotionally connected to…is so intense and such a wonderful, familiar callback to the way we used to engage with TV.”
— Andy (52:07)

“I love the show. Just unabashedly…it's capable of absolute, staggering highs...It also does have scenes…that feel like the stories I heard about shows that had to go into production when the writers strike was happening, when they just had, like, notes.”
— Andy (55:10)

Timestamps:

• 51:13 – The Pitt segment opens
• 52:07 – Emotional importance of “that guy/gal” characters
• 53:36 – Social commentary (violence in hospitals)
• 57:56 – The show's rapid pacing and range
• 65:17 – Dr. Langdon’s addiction revealed
• 71:51 – Noah Wyle’s performance and character modulation

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5. Notable Quotes & Moments

• “A tsunami moves fast, but fear moves faster.” (President Cal, quoted by Chris, 28:40)
• “I don't think Paradise is quote-unquote good in the way that we talk about things being good or bad anymore. But I do think it is batshit crazy and it's pretty entertaining.”
  — Andy (41:45)
• “Sometimes it’s just about having a wild ride.” — Andy (40:07)
• “He just swings in like a piñata at key moments for everyone to be, like, this fucking guy. So for her to arrive just at that moment, to literally be the straw administrator whose fault this is, was incredible.”
  — Andy on Michael Hyatt’s character in The Pitt (56:23)

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6. Brief Additional Segments

• Paradise “Versailles” Survivor List: The hosts joke about who they’d save in an apocalypse; sports and podcasting figures are floated.
• Discussion of TV Release Trends: Shows now debut with minimal promotional lead time; everything’s “Sheridanverse” now.
• Upcoming Content: Next week, reaction to White Lotus, and an interview with Danny McBride about Righteous Gemstones.

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7. Closing Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Chris and Andy champion TV that takes big "swings," whether it's goofy disaster plotting or dense medical drama, and they emphasize the value of balancing "smart" prestige with entertainment. The loving tribute to Gene Hackman and their comedic rapport are highlights for new and long-time listeners alike.

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For Newcomers:
You’ll find deep TV analysis, plenty of spoilers, and endearing digressions. This episode especially showcases why “The Watch” is trusted both for its taste and its sense of fun.

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Transcript

[Chris Ryan]

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[Sponsor Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by NBA 2K26. A favor to my sons and me. All right, quick break. NBA 2K26 stacked this year. Gameplay new motion engine smoother catch and shoot. The rhythm shooting is dialed in. My team added the W. So now you can get Caitlin Clark pulling up from deep. Larry Bird talking trash mid game. Jokic casually dropping triple doubles. It's absurd in the best way. My career has a whole new storyline. The city's tighter and you're on the court way faster. I've been playing video basketball games. I think the first one was early 80s. I'm stunned. Like when I go and my son's playing with his friends and I go in and I barge my own and I start playing with them. I'm just amazed by how good, how detailed all the games are, how they really look like NBA players. 2K26 is finally here and yeah, it is absolutely loaded if you care about basketball, even though literally you're checking it out today. Ball over everything.

[Andy Greenwald]

Pain.

[Chris Ryan]

Sports have to clear the room.

[Andy Greenwald]

Stand up and walk now.

[Chris Ryan]

Hello and welcome to the Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] and joining me in the studio, Foiled Again by Cashew cheese. It's Andy Greenwald.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm glad you mentioned the cashew cheese. I would also like to say, Chris, before we get into this wonderful recording where we'll be talking about television shows. Yeah, Paradise. The pit.

[Chris Ryan]

Sorry, what? I. We're. We're very far away.

[Andy Greenwald]

What I wanted to say was for people who aren't watching us on video, we are sitting like Bruce Wayne and Vicki Vale and the original Tim Burton Batman at the dinner scene. You are very far from me.

[Chris Ryan]

But I. Who is who here in this. In this scenario?

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm always Vicki Bale Greenwald.

[Chris Ryan]

Great to see you, man. It's. You're hearing this on Thursday in the early evening on the west coast or later at night on the east coast, because we wanted to be able to talk about a pretty big new episode of the Pit that we. That would just have just gone up on Thursday. Today, we're also going to talk about just the. The phenomenon, the rocket ship, the EMP blast. That is Paradise.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm really glad we stuck with it.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm really glad we stuck with it as well. We had gotten a lot of messages being like, hey, I. It seems like you guys quit this show. Episode seven. Episode seven. Episode seven. And I gotta say, the streets were right. The streets were right. We're gonna talk about the end of the first season of Paradise. But how are you?

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm good. I also wanted to. I mean, I didn't run this by C. T and Kaya beforehand, but, like, I did want to debut something new for the video listeners and viewers where if you say something I disagree with, I'm just going to hold up a sign that says false because I feel like that's the best way to show dissent.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Andy Greenwald]

Do you think it's going to work?

[Chris Ryan]

You didn't watch. You don't know how effective the protests were last night.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, did it work? Are we. Are we good?

[Chris Ryan]

He's become a moderate.

[Andy Greenwald]

We should say to our listeners that we are entering a new phase of our relationship.

[Chris Ryan]

It's not new. You haven't read the news in, like, three years. You keep saying, like, here's my new plan is I'm not going to read the news. And I'm like, did you see what happened?

[Andy Greenwald]

Like, well, because you can't quit telling me. That's the thing.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I don't. Kids, I want to know. I want to know.

[Andy Greenwald]

You want to know how it's going to go out? Yeah. When the lights go off.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

You also.

[Chris Ryan]

I have lots more free time to fill. I don't have to worry about, like, oh, is this kid going to get to soccer? It's like, no, I'll read the Guardian.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's cute. You think my kids play soccer, but do you.

[Chris Ryan]

They are in Trump's America.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's true. They better get. They better get moving. Yeah, no, he. Soccer is a European game.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, that's right.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, Come on.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right. You wanted to chat briefly yeah. About the late Gene Hackman.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh. I just felt like we. So generally I would give ourselves. You know, I think generally we do a pretty good job. We do a fine job on this podcast. I do think that due to my massive smothering open head Adam Scott in severance in the kitchen surgery state of jet lag the other day, that I did just completely forget the four things I wanted to talk to you about regarding the Oscars.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought you may have missed it because you don't look at the news.

[Andy Greenwald]

I didn't know the Oscars were on. Yeah, I did want to. I mean, there's a couple things. It's like a nesting doll of points here. One was just the In Memoriam segment in general.

[Chris Ryan]

Number one. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And some.

[Chris Ryan]

I would like to make a. Can I just interrupt?

[Andy Greenwald]

This is what I want to say.

[Chris Ryan]

I wanted to make an apology on behalf of the Watch. On behalf of C. T And Kaya.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Who both. They don't deserve. This is to be tarred with the same brush as us. But Andy and I were like, talking about the Memoriam.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is one of my nesting dolls.

[Chris Ryan]

And we were like, what is with this music?

[Andy Greenwald]

This music sucks.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Well, I was more saying, like, I think I know this song, but I don't think it's appropriately like. It's like you want to have darkness, but like, at the end you're like, but we're all going to heaven. It's uplift.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. Right.

[Chris Ryan]

And the Requiem that they were playing during the Memoriam segment on the Oscars, I thought was just a little brooding.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's not one of your top five requiems.

[Chris Ryan]

So on behalf of Andy and I, I would like to apologize to the estate of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart.

[Andy Greenwald]

Do you think he's. It's in the public domain at this point.

[Chris Ryan]

Amadeus. That's a real Philly pronunciation.

[Andy Greenwald]

Amadeus. Amadeus. Get your water ice.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I used to get my bread from Sayeri, so. My bad. I. We.

[Andy Greenwald]

We.

[Chris Ryan]

We dismissed. Probably one of Mozart.

[Andy Greenwald]

Wolfgang Amoroso Mozart. Sorry, go on.

[Chris Ryan]

That one's probably high up on the this is Mozart playlist on Spotify.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's probably top 10. Shout out to the Watch on Budswoman. Amanda Dobbins for being first on the parapets. We can count on her to let us know when we're wrong. But. Yeah, so I. But I. The point remains that I thought it was a. A. A little over the top for. For an in memoriam. An in memoriam that I also wanted to say was. This is a weird way to phrase it. The most stacked ever. I know it was devastating the amount of time.

[Chris Ryan]

I think it's more also that we are now seeing people that we grew up watching.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Pass away, which is a very sad fact of life. But like, I think it's only going to get more uncanny as we're like watching people that was like, damn.

[Andy Greenwald]

I, I, I, I knew him.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I've saw many of your films in the theater from 17 to 37. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, it's true. Do you know what else does that to you? When I was in London, I went to see a, a museum exhibition. Really good. At the National Portrait Gallery. And it was of the photography from the magazine, the Face.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, gosh.

[Andy Greenwald]

So it was in the august halls of London's National Portrait Gallery and it was like Justine Frischman, Elastica 1996. And everyone's like, hmm, Oh, I see how fascinating. It was really cool. But it was also like we were hanging out looking at these magazines and now it's in a museum. But so, okay, so totally stacked. I thought it was ultimate. I thought it was pretty disappointing that there wasn't more for David Lynch. I thought the sweetest thing about it.

[Chris Ryan]

They could have done a David lynch tribute. But in reality, like, I mean, as an alternative to like the Bond thing.

[Andy Greenwald]

I was gonna say if two major figures of culture died, David lynch and apparently James Bond.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, he did die.

[Andy Greenwald]

James. Don't spoil that bad movie.

[Chris Ryan]

That's from three years ago now also.

[Andy Greenwald]

Boy, in a way, that title of that movie was really like a, like kind of a scold.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

It was no Time to Die. And he was just like.

[Chris Ryan]

So you never saw that one?

[Andy Greenwald]

I did see it.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

I saw it on an airplane.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Just as Carrie Masters of the Air Fukunaga intended. Right. He directed that.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Andy Greenwald]

Terrific.

[Chris Ryan]

Why did you do air quotes like, like they weren't really Masters of the Air?

[Andy Greenwald]

No. Because didn't he also direct some of that series?

[Chris Ryan]

Directed the first four or five, but.

[Andy Greenwald]

They didn't want to talk about that. They.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, that's Big Apple. Didn't want you to know about that. That's why I said directed by Cary for Kanaga at the end.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is too many nesting dolls. I did think that the sweetest tribute to David lynch was that Isabella Rossellini brought Laura Dern as her date and wore blue velvet. That was beautiful. All of this was to say the Gene Hackman news really was a gut punch. Not because the passing away of a 95 year old actor is necessarily that. I mean, the news that's come out since is pretty shocking and bizarre and confusing. But he had retired 20 years ago, and so the day was inevitably coming. But I just wanted to take a moment on the microphone to say, like, I think he's the greatest American actor.

[Chris Ryan]

There you go. Way to stick your neck out.

[Andy Greenwald]

Thank you. Have other people in the news said something similar, or am I really on the front edge here of culture?

[Chris Ryan]

You zagged.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, it reminded me of. Remember a few years ago, we did a thing where we were just. I don't know when I say we did a thing. I sometimes can't tell if this is a podcast or just our life, but we were talking about how when like the. The iconic lists of, like the greatest rock bands.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's almost always British bands. And then it's like, well, what's the iconic greatest American rock band? And we kind of made a case for Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah, we did do that.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's kind of the. Gene Hackman is the greatest American actor in la.

[Chris Ryan]

You know what? That's a really great. That's a great correlation.

[Andy Greenwald]

So completely of a cultural moment, like, you know, in terms of where he studied, who he worked with, but completely sui generis. And so absolutely incontrovertibly him always. And just unique from when he came on screen as a performer with his abilities to do comedy and drama and menace and heart, but throughout his entire career, just looking at his filmography, and I remember when. I mean, the time that I was casting something and I was trying to cast a male lead, looking for someone who could be physical but also funny, and we don't make actors like this.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I mean, he comes from a generation of actors like that Duval, Pacino, Hoffman, De Niro era, Keitel, sort of towards the later end of it, where the character actors were the stars.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

And all those guys have the ability to be incredibly immersive or chameleonic and disappear into costume or accent or whatever. Like there is a quality about them that is always like, you know, you can turn the dial on Hackman and have him be fourth or fifth down the call sheet. Like he is in reds. Or carrying the entire film like he does in Night Moves or whatever. Yeah. Or he can come in and do four or five scenes in Crimson Tide and blow it out of the water, almost literally.

[Andy Greenwald]

Or he can just be incredibly funny and in on the joke in the birdcage. You know, like his Lex Luthor. Is his Lex Luthor underrated or properly rated? Because he wouldn't shave his head.

[Chris Ryan]

It's been a while since I've seen the Donner ones, but, like, I think that history has really smiled upon that performance.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. And those movies, truly. So you mentioned it. I think that my favorite Hackman is probably Night Moves, which is a 1975 mystery. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Arthur Penn, kind of in the vein of the kind of stuff we like to read, the Ross McDonald, John D. McDonald kind of stuff.

[Andy Greenwald]

He plays a guy named Harry Call who wears a sick leather jacket and drives around LA and then gets hired to investigate something that takes him to the Florida Keys. So it's like we incepted this idea years before we were born. And it's real swampy and real grimy. And he's so good because he's. Again, he walks into a room and other characters are kind of afraid of him. This character used to be a football player.

[Chris Ryan]

He's played for the Rams.

[Andy Greenwald]

He has size. But in the first 10 minutes of the movie, he is also cuckolded. And he looks so sad about it. He's just. I don't. There just aren't actors who can do that wide range of a performance.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Like, you know, I grew up with the 80s and 90s performances, so in. My introduction to him was kind of cranky old man, like the Firm and Unforgiven.

[Andy Greenwald]

He's so. He is. The Firm is top five, maybe Hornet, Hackman, Hori.

[Chris Ryan]

That's. That's a big part about the Firm.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's true.

[Chris Ryan]

Watchables. As we talked about horny Agman, and then I went back and saw him in Crimson Tide or not. Night Moves and French Connection.

[Andy Greenwald]

Scarecrow.

[Chris Ryan]

Scarecrow. But it's. He was always kind of a cranky old man, even in his younger days.

[Andy Greenwald]

Bonnie and Clyde. Super, super cranky.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think also we talk about, like, movie star eras. The fact that he could be the lead in the Conversation, which is a masterpiece, and then be in the 90s version of the Conversation, Enemy of the State, and still make sense in that world. And then we did The Rewatchables on Tenenbaums 1.

[Chris Ryan]

We did the Royal Tenenbaums 1.

[Andy Greenwald]

Hackman doing Tenenbaums and apparently hating it, but giving one of the greatest performances of his career and maybe the perfect coda to his career. And then like a year later doing welcome to Moose Port with Ray Romano and then piecing out. It's kind of like the way I won't accept that The Chiefs scored 22 points in the Super Bowl. Like, that was a 40 to six game.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

In the.

[Chris Ryan]

So you, you think that Tenenbaums is his last movie?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes, Tenenbaums was his last movie. And welcome to Moose Port was Mahomes throwing two TDs against the backups in garbage time. Did you think I was going to be able to bring it back to the Super Bowl? Because I feel like our listeners did.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you want to get into paradise and the Pip?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. How do you want to do this? Two shows that begin with P. That's. That's one way I want to talk about Paradise. Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Because I'll admit that after, like, the second or third episode, I was like, this was a fun experiment for us.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. What did we say? We were like? It. It's, it's actually.

[Chris Ryan]

It was bad, good bad. And then it went bad, bad. And I think there was something. I was. I was having an allergic reaction to the backlotiness of it, which I know is intentional, given now we're going to spoil Paradise. By the way, if you haven't watched it, I highly recommend. You do watch it, though. And I highly recommend that even if you've only watched the first episode or very little of it, that you watch the seventh episode.

[Andy Greenwald]

And I think, I mean, people don't like it. Especially creators don't like it when we say things like this. But, like, if you are pressed for time, I think it's okay. You can jump ahead. The show has been renewed. You're fine. You may miss some of the deep flashbacks about Agent Billy, but I think you'll be fine.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, there is. There is like a very soft middle to the first season that then gets really, really, really, really fun. And in seven. Excellent. So seven is called the Day. It is essentially. I don't. Wouldn't necessarily call it a real time, but it feels real time. Account of the hours before the evacuation of the White House and the arrival at the Colorado bunker that Samantha Redmond, played by Julianne Nicholson, has, AKA Sinatra, AKA Sinatra, has built for the sort of the liberal elites. Well, I don't know if they're libs, but, you know, like, it's like the. The elites of Washington, the essential people who are going to continue or restart society in this underground bunker in Colorado.

[Andy Greenwald]

I would say more that it seems like it's run by like, a billionaire oligarch class, which. Which is weird.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Just didn't ring true.

[Andy Greenwald]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

And you know, for the majority of the season, you're aware that some sort of catastrophe has taken place and that.

[Andy Greenwald]

The world is presumed.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's. It's the that the world outside of the bunker is ruined. Right on the flashbacks to the flight that we have seen so far. I believe in the first episode, maybe at the end we get a glimpse of it. We know that there is some sort of explosion because I think we see the white light of an explosion and we know that Xavier Collins, who is Sterling K. Brown's Secret Service agent, who is the protagonist of the show, is very mad at the President. James Marsden, AKA Cal, AKA Wildcat.

[Andy Greenwald]

We should have more aka's in our lives.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, I got plenty you just don't know about them.

[Andy Greenwald]

Do you really like when, when you're walking around the Ringer office, what do they say? Who's moving?

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know.

[Andy Greenwald]

Sparkplug.

[Chris Ryan]

We find out that the events that, that led these people to the Colorado bunker were. A volcano exploded in the Antarctic.

[Andy Greenwald]

How quickly did you Google? Are there really volcanoes in the Arctic?

[Chris Ryan]

My attitude about these kinds of things is very similar to my attitude about flying in a plane, which is like there's very little about it I can control. Like I can recycle.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is why you're healthy.

[Chris Ryan]

I can recycle. But there is a certain, you know.

[Andy Greenwald]

Do you think that's helping right now? Your Yoplait containers going in the blue.

[Chris Ryan]

I responded to Trump sorting my trash.

[Andy Greenwald]

This will show. Good job, sir.

[Chris Ryan]

That is compostable.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is an act of resistance. Yeah, good job.

[Chris Ryan]

I paid $13 for these eggs and they will go in my compost.

[Andy Greenwald]

So in a way you're just investing.

[Chris Ryan]

And so there's a volcano in the, in Antarctica causing a 300 foot wave. Take that. 100 foot wave.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, I was going to say, I wonder what that was like in Nazare.

[Chris Ryan]

To come out of the southern hemisphere traveling at 600 miles per hour, which leads to. It's preceded by an awesome sonic boom which I did not know waves of that size produced. And I would describe in a style. Glenn Fakara and John Requa directed this. They directed much of, I think much of. Or several episodes of the first season. I think only the first two.

[Andy Greenwald]

The first two and the last. And. And the big in the last two. Yeah, they did two blocks.

[Chris Ryan]

So these, these two guys have actually put together like a very solid, very entertaining CV of of stuff that they've directed. Crazy Stupid Love Focus. You know, like they are very sure hands. I would not have imagined that they would be the first choice for a bite your nails thriller, you know, like this. But that is essentially what you get, which is like this Countdown clock of the very last moment that the people in the White House can get out of the White House, get onto planes, fly to Colorado. They are trying to decide to what extent they need to notify the American public and the world public about what's coming. Obviously some people around the world are starting to get that sense because large swaths of it are being destroyed hour.

[Andy Greenwald]

By hour and we, we start to learn about it. Due to the breakdown of decorum on cable news.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, yes. And a lot of the TV news stuff is very clover field.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like they are communicating a lot of exposition by doing these kind of stand up shots and there's a lot of like verite kind. It's very, very cool the way they kind of communicate a lot of this information.

[Andy Greenwald]

I also did want to like, just fact check. Like there is not fact check, but maybe just question. There's the one reporter for the CNN analog.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. And he's like, I'm gonna stay doing a panel talk.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, not that guy. The one who's just the woman who's just like, I am coming to you live from Jakarta, Indonesia, minutes before a 300 foot tsunami wave arrives. And he's like, should you be there? And she's like, don't worry. I've chosen to do my report from a balcony of a skyscraper. I was like, oh, yeah, should be fine. Should be fine. Nice view of the harbor.

[Chris Ryan]

Doesn't work out for her.

[Andy Greenwald]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

Doesn't work out really for anyone. I would say that the great thing about this episode among just, just the fact that it is a adrenaline rush and it's so well done, is a, the sincerity with which they are like, they're treating the subject matter, which is pretty, you know, obviously sensational. They were like, no, we're going to take this deadly, deadly seriously and very emo. And on top of that, every time you're like, we're twisted out, I'm wrong out. Like, there's nowhere else for this to go. They got to get on the plane and they got to go. They're like, what if we also had to deal with this and what if we also had to deal with. Xavier Collins's wife is stranded in Atlanta, but can she get from Hartsfield Airport to an Air force base in like the amount of time that she needs to get there to get evacuated?

[Andy Greenwald]

Anyone who has ever remotely aided a spouse navigating an airport really felt like that was more gripping when he's like.

[Chris Ryan]

Steal a car if you have to.

[Andy Greenwald]

I feel like you've said that to Phoebe on occasion.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know, man. I. This was a real lesson to me that, like, not, A, not to give up on shows, but, B, that certain episodes can just be so head and shoulders above everything else that it almost. I don't wanna say, like, redeems like, I'm giving it. Like, I'm like, oh, you've. You've been redeemed. But it was like, this is incredible television.

[Andy Greenwald]

It was a really, really good episode of a show that also, even within this episode, stayed true to its bona fides, which is that it is batshit insane.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

I feel like any conversation about paradise must, as a caveat, the way they describe the side effects of drugs in commercials say that it is cuckoo birds.

[Chris Ryan]

It may cause vertigo, seizures.

[Andy Greenwald]

Like, it is so crazy. And I come here, though, not to bury it, for that, but to celebrate it. Because, Chris, we used to be a nation of many things, laws, but also broadcast television and broadcast television. And we forget this through the haze of Netflix fees and things that broadcast tv, even the things we celebrated, really, really, really, really used to go for it. Go for it in very, very broad, sometimes comical ways. And I don't know why. This is the first example that came to my mind. It's 40 years old, but like LA Law, which was the prestige drama of the 80s in a lot of ways, along with St. Elsewhere and Hill Street Blues.

[Chris Ryan]

Ikenberry, man.

[Andy Greenwald]

But what's that?

[Chris Ryan]

Ikenberry. Jill Ikenberry.

[Andy Greenwald]

So did you just name a character? Do you, like, Stump the Schwab? Just like naming actors on LA Law. Okay, Michael, Tucker, Hamlin, let's go. A. Martinez. Are we just gonna do this? Who is the guy? Benny? Is Benny the. Then that's Corbin Bernson, right? No, no, no. Benny wasn't there.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, Arnie. He was Arnie, right?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, Arnie. No, there was the special needs guy that worked in the Office, played by the guy who was the villain in Dark Man. I think his name was Benny.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, see, I won. But winning feels terrible. Cause you just look at me like I'm crazy.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, Dark Man.

[Andy Greenwald]

Anyway, on LA Law, when there was the. Diana Moldauer played like Rosalind, who was like the badass super villain of the Office for one season, and then she walked into an empty elevator shaft.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah. They were like, your contract's up. Guess what?

[Andy Greenwald]

But they were also like, our story. Our writers room goes to 11.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And we will see what happens. But we are not here to win awards or even be streaming or available on video. We are here to fucking go for it week after week.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

And paradise has that baked into its insane DNA. And I really, really respect it. And sometimes when it hits hard, like it does with this episode, where they were like, okay, in these 46 minutes, we are going to end life on Earth and do a TikTok of what? Okay, not in the TikTok in the modern sense, but like in a reported story kind of way, of what it would be like for these people in this room and have moments of mawkishness or unreality, like when President Cal takes a moment to talk to the guy sweeping up outside the Oval Office. But what that gets us are these moments of sincerity, then the moments of hysteria. And to the show's credit, it doesn't make anyone look particularly heroic, which I think is maybe that's the most modern thing about it.

[Chris Ryan]

That's what I really liked about it. You mentioned the hysteria. So my favorite part of the episode is when. And the President has given. He's recorded an address that is very like stiff upper lips. May God bless us. And, and hopefully tomorrow we'll begin to recover and, you know, we'll be there, America shining bright. And then he decides to take the tie off, both literally and sort of linguistically in.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, it's Cal. So first he ties one on a little bit, then he has a drink.

[Chris Ryan]

And then he's like, I need a cup of coffee. Which is the best. You know, it's just kind of like the legal speedball. Yeah, it's the adult speedball. He sits down and addresses the globe and says, we're dead. We are dead. But before that, when he makes this decision and it's obvious to his immediate circle that he is going to now tell the truth about the imminent destruction of the world, Xavier's like weapons hot, man, because it's about to get steamy up in the Oval.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Cuz he knows as soon as everybody figures out the world is ending and this guy has actually got a place to go. Yeah, I want on that plane.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's going to get pretty, pretty, pretty ugly inside the Oval. So, like, the Secret Service agents are then asked to defend the President and in, in some cases shoots civilians who are trying to get on this, on this transport, it's called the Versailles Group, you know, of people who are, like, going to be transported and restart society. And that's when shit hits the fan. And it is, it is pretty nuts. And then even one of the Secret Service agents isn't invited. Yeah, no, your name's not on the list, dog.

[Andy Greenwald]

I, I kind of, it's like you.

[Chris Ryan]

Have to guard the White House. I'm like, from a wave. Like, why did that give you, did.

[Andy Greenwald]

That give you flashbacks to, like, trying to see the MIA secret show or something in 2003? Like the Fader. Put this up.

[Chris Ryan]

Come on.

[Andy Greenwald]

I gotta be on the list.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I was at the fade. Fader fort.

[Andy Greenwald]

You were, you were guarding the fader fort.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Andy Greenwald]

Even after a South by Southwest ended. No, I, I, I think it's also when you have a, if you'll allow it, Apologies to the deceased, a title wave of a story show like this, sometimes it just sweeps past really good ideas, but just by sweeping past them, it pays them some attention. What I mean is, like, it's what you just said, that like, baked into this insane tempo of an episode, the idea that like, other things, other end of the world type stories or apocalyptic stories, try to at least showcase the dignity in continuing to do your job.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Or sweep up or guard even after, you know, all hope is lost.

[Chris Ryan]

Or even if it's a post apocalyptic story and it's like the real, the real evil came from within.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

It's like, oh, well, that's the breakdown. The evil that men do. The Hobbesian, the Hobbesian piece, you know, but this is like, it's, it's already bad in the room before the wave even hits.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. And there's, and what dignity is there because you're dying anyway.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And I sort of appreciated that aspect of it. And so that episode was incredibly strong.

[Chris Ryan]

I have a couple more notes to just pass along before we get to the finale because that gets real weird in this episode. Xavier spends most of it texting his wife during the end of the world, which I get. You want to make sure she gets to the airport. But I was thinking about texting with you if the world was gonna end.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, first of all, you'd be informing me.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I. First I'd be like, guess what? Lioness is not coming back.

[Andy Greenwald]

Some news colon. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But then I just feel like you would be sending me, like, heard this new 90s esque indie jam.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'd be like, okay, but did you see this on Stereo Gum? This band's pretty good.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And you'd be like, yes, I've been listening to them for years, not telling you about them.

[Chris Ryan]

It's really it right now.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's a good record. I would do that. I would. Also you'd see the dots and you'd be like, I Bet. I bet my friend is composing his thoughts about a life well lived together in the trenches of podcasting and media. And I was just looking for the right Palpatine gift just to hit, just to make you.

[Chris Ryan]

Just somehow Greenwald has survived to make.

[Andy Greenwald]

You lull one last time.

[Chris Ryan]

The only other thing was, I can't remember which character says this, but I think it's either the president. I think it's the president who says, a tsunami moves fast, but fear moves faster.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And I have to say, I don't care if it was a tsunami. I would just be. That's. That's my number one.

[Andy Greenwald]

You wouldn't worry about fear.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Fear is like, fear's coming.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I think people are allowed to be afraid. I think people should be allowed to be allowed to freak out.

[Andy Greenwald]

Especially low lying areas.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. Anything else on episode seven?

[Andy Greenwald]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

Would you say contender for episode of the year? Well, I mean, how can you say it's only March?

[Andy Greenwald]

It's only March? I think that it is. I mean, and this is just part of the larger conversation about the show. I really, really like how hard the show goes, you know, that it's. That it's just like an episode like this, in the current way that we seem to understand how to make television in this country would either be the first episode or the last episode of the third season. They're like, fuck it, we got more, we got more, we got more, we got more. And so that you have an episode this crazy, and then the powers that be in this case, Dan Fogelman, is like, perfect. I've now cleared the room, cleared the air, and cleared most of the earth so I can tell the story that motivates me most. The surprising love story between a gruff foreman and a Senegalese worker dying of black lung. Yeah, like, great. Let's fucking go. Let's keep going. This show is so free of the pomposity and the portentousness of so much prestige TV of the last few years. If you compare this to Zero Day, which is also ostensibly about a catastrophe in this country with a focus on the. The highest chambers of power.

[Chris Ryan]

And did you ever finish Zero Day?

[Andy Greenwald]

No, I've not.

[Chris Ryan]

I read the recaps for the rest of it. I watched three and a half of them and then I read the recaps.

[Andy Greenwald]

Does it get. Does it get real smart? Does it get real good?

[Chris Ryan]

It gets so much smarter.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, my God, the show. So smart. I love it. Oh, you're so smart. Zero Day. You really. It's like reading the op Ed pages of the failing New York Times. It's awesome. But it's apples and oranges. Except the. I can't do this metaphor. Except the oranges are rancid. I don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

The. The fact that they spend the finale mostly concentrating on a character who had been in the very, very, very far background.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's so pleased with itself. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And that his. He is not only the person who tried, he is the attempted assassin of Cal. The first time.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan]

That. Then he is sent to a Colorado supermax prison.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

He was a bit of kismet because he's like, who would have thunk it? I wind up in supermax, and if I can just orchestrate my own escape.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's great.

[Chris Ryan]

He says, I'm right nearby the excavation site. The site of the town.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's amazing. And it's like one of the great, like, little TV tropes. Actually. I don't even know if it's a TV trope. It's just one of the funniest things is when this guy who's. What's his name?

[Andy Greenwald]

Trent.

[Chris Ryan]

Trent. He has been posing as the librarian.

[Andy Greenwald]

False.

[Chris Ryan]

In his town. Fake Trent. False. Trent is even better.

[Andy Greenwald]

Says on Wikipedia. False Trent.

[Chris Ryan]

He kidnaps Xavier and he's like, finally, I get to unburden myself with the truth about what I've done.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

And then just tells him his entire life story.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, he's concussed.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And I was just like, this is so great. This is awesome.

[Andy Greenwald]

Do you think this is better? Better or worse than current NFL concussion protocols? Like, when they go in the blue tent and False Trent is there to explain the plot of paradise to you. And if you could follow his, like, damn. Oh, that's really riveting. You're, like, back in the game.

[Chris Ryan]

The end of this episode or the end of this season. I guess it's worth noting that there is a woman named Jane who people remember from. From the beginning part of the season, who over the course is. Is. Starts out as a Secret Service agent who is Xavier's protege.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And Billy's lover. And over the course of the season, it's revealed that she is not only a killer, like an outside hitman, more or less. Or an assassin, but that she is unwell. That she. That she seems to have, like, a kind of Hannibal Lecter thing going. Or not even. I wouldn't even.

[Andy Greenwald]

She's a little sociopathic. And she is. You know. What do they used to say about Allen Iverson? Like, 150 pounds soaking wet.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

She's like 105 pounds soaking wet.

[Chris Ryan]

But the most brutal killer dead eye shot. Because at the end of the episode, now you guys do or don't care. Like, basically over the entire second half of the season, it's kind of a Lost, you know, Jack versus Locke kind of thing, where it's like Xavier and his people and some of the Secret Service agents and they get all the guns.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And then Samantha and the brainiacs and the billionaires. I like calling her by her given name.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay. But you're gonna confuse people. They're gonna fail concussion protocols.

[Chris Ryan]

Sinatra. And it seems like Xavier has the upper hand until Sinatra, who's been swearing that she's not a monster the entire season.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's also just like this show is.

[Chris Ryan]

So threatens to kill his daughter.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's unstoppable. It's like. It's like. It's like it has some sort of food poisoning. It just keeps.

[Chris Ryan]

Just.

[Andy Greenwald]

It just keeps coming out of it. And so the character who is behaving like a Bond villain says, oh, maybe I am a Bond villain. Like, okay, then let's move on. That's just who you are for the purposes of this show.

[Chris Ryan]

And so it seems like Xavier, he's got. His daughter, has been kidnapped by a snatcher. She's threatening to kill Presley and is like, you know, so you're gonna do my bidding, and yada, yada. And then Jane goes rogue.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And is like, no, I am gonna kill Presley. She's the one who's been guarding. She said she did kill her. He's getting real mad. But then Jane pops into the room and shoots Sinatra in the one part of the sternum that doesn't kill you.

[Andy Greenwald]

That is remarkable. She's bleeding out, but not all the way.

[Chris Ryan]

That would make a cool YouTube video. Me and Angie shoot each other right here.

[Andy Greenwald]

But what if it was narrated with that TikTok voice? I took my two best friends to a room, and I shot them both in the sternum to see how quickly they wouldn't die. I shot Chris first, and he seems to be in discomfort, and the blood is bubbling around his mouth and neck, and he cannot speak, but he's promised me that he'll survive. My children only watch content with that voice.

[Chris Ryan]

It ends with.

[Andy Greenwald]

Wait, I like. Also, you're like, xavier gets real mad. He shoots two dudes point blank in the forehead. But I guess everyone has different definitions of anger.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. He winds up, you know, so Sinatra is incapacitated. Jane is still pretending to be on.

[Andy Greenwald]

And by the way, I'm so sorry. It's like you.

[Chris Ryan]

Why am I recapping this?

[Andy Greenwald]

You're. You're sane. Washing the show. Okay. In the spirit of the day.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Like, you have to understand that. So on this show, there is a massive, massive pot plot plank, which is that in recreating society to the best of their ability, they recreate a classic neighborhood diner that serves that classic dish that sucks cheese.

[Chris Ryan]

Dairy.

[Andy Greenwald]

Do they not? They. I don't think they don't have dairy. I think when they announced that the cheese is. Can you believe it? It's cashew cheese. Which barf. But they say they did that. I think it's like, you know, you.

[Chris Ryan]

Can make a pretty decent cashew cheese.

[Andy Greenwald]

Get out of this podcast.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm just saying you can. I mean, like, I've had it.

[Andy Greenwald]

You can make a pretty decent cashew puree. But just eat cheese. Or don't. That's my feeling.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay. You can make a decent cashew cheese.

[Chris Ryan]

A lot of fun last night. Watch, watch. You worried about the dairy farmers? Is that what's going on?

[Andy Greenwald]

Release the water. Feed the cows.

[Chris Ryan]

Feed the cashews.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, feed the cashews. The implication is that they've. They've. They've helped society so much. Right. That they have made this somehow. You know, it's vegan. Yeah, that's the implication. Not that they didn't have dairy, but really, it's all a misdirect to expose that the woman serving and snacking on the delicious cheese fries has a deadly nut allergy. Or so she should have if she was really real Trent's wife instead of a woman eating junk food outside of a.

[Chris Ryan]

We learned that because the town therapist breaks HIPAA and starts sharing all the confidential files with Robinson, the other Secret Service agent. It's just a lot of. A lot of personal morality going on.

[Andy Greenwald]

Since you clearly have retained all of the factual information of this show to a degree that I may have not. Okay, the thing that I'm wondering if they've really dwelt on is when they were making the list, like, can you get into this?

[Chris Ryan]

The Versailles.

[Andy Greenwald]

The Versailles.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

It seems like, correct me if I'm wrong, there are a lot of high priority people like the cabinet, friends and family of the president, the billionaires and their friends and family, I assume some crucial people who can do things like surgery, like doctors and scientists who might help repopulate the earth. But then there does seem to be a rather large chunk of the population that's just there to, like, be a bartender. Or be a waitress now. I think that's nice. If it was done with an egalitarian spirit, like society needs all its members to contribute to the best of their abilities. I'm sort of wondering, though, if I was drawing up the Versailles, which I never should have been allowed to do.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I feel like it'd be like Lane Johnson, Saquon Barkley, my kids.

[Andy Greenwald]

In that order.

[Chris Ryan]

That Joanna.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think all the other podcasters first. Is that where you were going, Van? The whole ringer verse? Really? Yeah, that. Well, they entertain me. You know, I'd find a way to get you in there.

[Chris Ryan]

Thanks, man.

[Andy Greenwald]

False Trent, welcome to the Watch. I'm Andy Greenwald. This is my longtime partner, False Trent.

[Chris Ryan]

Being the fake librarian in your town.

[Andy Greenwald]

Before you 3D printed another guy library.

[Chris Ryan]

We only have Lonesome Dove and books about the fall of Saigon.

[Andy Greenwald]

You would let me make mixed CDs though? Yeah, that would be a tell.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I'll just stand behind you and be like, I actually heard these guys three years ago.

[Andy Greenwald]

I read about the Monsterio gum. I do think that every single person in the town should probably be a nuclear physicist who unfortunately has to be a bar back until needed.

[Chris Ryan]

That would be really funny.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, but like, I think everyone should be the elite of the elite. Like the greatest, biggest brained artists and like, like Neil DeGrasse Tyson should be there if needed, but he's just selling ice cream in the park. You know what I mean? That would probably be my way of doing it.

[Chris Ryan]

I just want to ask you a question before we get off of Paradise. We've had this show and we've had Landman that I think both. We've gotten a lot of just real joy out of joy.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. What do you think it says about us that we're responding so I don't know. Not necessarily always positively, but excitedly to this. This kind of stuff instead of severance.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, well, I was going to say Mala. No, Malala. Make America laugh again, comma, Los Angeles. Just trying to make it work because these shows are fucking crazy and they're entertaining and they are. I mean, one, they're making us laugh and giving us stuff to make each other laugh with. They are also triggering parts of our creative cerebral cortex that just aren't always engaged with. Like, it's not just about solving rational, reasonable, complicated puzzles. It's also about just having a wild ride sometimes and, you know, a healthy.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe we should change the watch to Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

[Andy Greenwald]

I love Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. You know what we should do or what we could do or would have been a good Tuesday column for me to have written at Grantland years ago would have been the Healthy TV Pyramid. Like a food pyramid. How many servings of different things makes a healthy diet over the course of a week? Because it does.

[Chris Ryan]

We could just do that on the watch.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know, Joanna and I were talking about doing it for, you know, just another project we're working on with our friend the librarian called the pyramid.

[Chris Ryan]

Big trend.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's weird the way his bald spot keeps growing back in. It's fine. No, but you know what I mean, because I do think it does. It does affect one's mood if you are over indexing one type of show over another.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I don't know if there's anything else like Severance on the air though.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, no, I didn't mean to listen. Severance does not need a drive by for me on this podcast.

[Chris Ryan]

We can love, love who we want to love, you know, but I don't.

[Andy Greenwald]

I want to be clear. I don't think paradise is quote unquote good in the way that we talk about things being good or bad anymore. But I do think it is batshit crazy and it's pretty entertaining.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And it's definitely got me thinking two times about tsunamis and waves, you know.

[Andy Greenwald]

In the ways that White Lotus didn't.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

What sort of things are you thinking about? Tsunamis?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I was just like, do I want to get to higher ground based on like, you know, like, do I want to get.

[Andy Greenwald]

You mean for this podcast and Barack Obama's company?

[Chris Ryan]

No, like live in. In like a mountain. Live on a mountain.

[Andy Greenwald]

I don't like altitude.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about the pit. This episode is brought to you by Pretty Litter. Living with more than one cat means you've got double the cuddles and double the litter duty. But Pretty Litter makes things so much easier. Not only does it control odors and lasts longer than other litter, it also keeps you ahead of health issues. The color changing crystals actually flag fluctuations in your cat's urine. How about that? Plus Pretty Litter ships free right to your door. So no heavy bags to carry and no last minute pet store runs. Right now, save 20, 20% on your first order and get a free cat [e-mail] watch. That's prettylitter.com watch. To save 20% on your first order, get a free cat toy. Pretty Litter.com watch. Pretty Litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. See site for details. This episode is brought to you by Diet Coke. You know that moment when you just need to hit pause and refresh. An ice cold Diet Coke isn't just a break. It's your chance to catch your breath and savor a moment that's all about you. Always refreshing.

[Andy Greenwald]

Still the same great taste Diet Coke.

[Chris Ryan]

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[Andy Greenwald]

Been wearing a lot.

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[Chris Ryan]

All right, bud, here we are.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yep, we're back.

[Chris Ryan]

We're going to do the Pit. Do you have any. Anything you'd like to discuss other than paradise and the Pit? I usually we save this stuff for the top of the show.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, I just, you know that I. I'm always as. As established by the beginning of this podcast. I'm always just checking the transom.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Seeing what news are coming across my little ticker tape. And I did just see some pretty exciting news for you. This is a headline from Hollywood Reporter Joe Russo says Robert Downey Jr. Is researching and quote, writing backstory for his Doctor Doom role. Quote, he is so dialed in.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you have to? Would that mean reading comic books?

[Andy Greenwald]

Researching is so interesting. Can you imagine him in the stacks like the University of Texas?

[Chris Ryan]

Where's Victor's from Hungarian.

[Andy Greenwald]

Latveria.

[Chris Ryan]

Latveria.

[Andy Greenwald]

My family's from Hungary. So that's, you know, it's the one. One slight difference. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So you can't really do a lot of boots on the ground reporting from Latveria?

[Andy Greenwald]

No, no. You fly direct to Sokovia, and then you just drive south. Fine.

[Chris Ryan]

Is it actually Adjace to Sokovia? The beautiful Marvel Balkans kind of thing.

[Andy Greenwald]

Lonely planet for that region in the Marvel universe. No. You're so credulous about this stuff in a very sweet way. I feel like I could say anything right now. You would believe it. I don't know how you research the role other than read comics and. What do you mean writing the backstory. Oh, are they? Unless they're just, you know, deviating from. From canon, which is its own thing. Aren't you glad that he's dialed in, though? You wouldn't want him to be phoning this performance in.

[Chris Ryan]

I have never really seen him not dialed. Like, that's his whole thing is he's dialed.

[Andy Greenwald]

He's super dialed.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm. I just. I just. I want the best for these guys. We didn't talk about Daredevil.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, yeah, we haven't. I haven't checked it out yet.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I think. I'm curious to see what you think. I don't know if it's gonna be a big project for us.

[Andy Greenwald]

Do you think I would have.

[Chris Ryan]

I think it's another one that seems like it's been stitched together.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, we'll cover it next week. Because when it was announced and they were gonna do like, network broadcast, network television shout out paradise, they were gonna be like, this is a kind of like a comedic legal thriller set in the Marvel universe. And they filmed some of it. And they were like.

[Chris Ryan]

Wait, they said that about Daredevil?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Wasn't that supposed to be she? Hulk was going to be a comedic legal thriller.

[Andy Greenwald]

They doubled down.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

They were like, this is a space that's really working for us. Yeah. Like Ally McBeal esque.

[Chris Ryan]

What if Ally McBeal was blind? Yeah, yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Keep going. Tell me what? You have my attention.

[Chris Ryan]

All right. I didn't have anything else for you because the only other thing I wanted to mention was that increasingly in television news or in tv, just in general, I just feel like shows have much less lead time, promo wise, than they used to. So it's not uncommon now to find out that Tom Hardy, Helen Mirren, and Pierce Brosnan are in a crime thriller directed and produced by Guy Ritchie that is Airing on Paramount in three weeks.

[Andy Greenwald]

There is something mercenary about the Paramount strategy, though, because we did kind of know about this. Wasn't this originally announced as like a.

[Chris Ryan]

So this was a Ray Donovan spin off or an extended radon of an extended universe? Now, I admit I did not go deep enough into Don to know radon whether there was some. Some United Kingdom connective tissue, some tentacles reaching across the Atlantic.

[Andy Greenwald]

Sure, we have a special relationship, but.

[Chris Ryan]

I think that this is one of those really interesting Hollywood development stories of this era where it's like, it started out and it was going to be this.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan]

And it was going to be a spin off of that. And then they, like somebody. Guy Ritchie had enough pull and Tom and was obviously able to pull the Tom Hardy lever hard enough to get him to do this, that it just became its own thing. It's called Mobland, which is, you know, about the easiest title for a show you could ever make. To make me want to watch Tim.

[Andy Greenwald]

Exactly. I was waiting for the hangout.

[Chris Ryan]

I could go for a slightly more elevated title, maybe in the land of the mob.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, that's nice. That's classy. But I like the suggestion, loose suggestion that, like, everything is MCU now. Not in the sense that it's a shared Marvel universe, but that everything is just like, well, we're gonna roll and then we'll just figure it out. But doesn't it strike you that, like, is it an US problem or an industry problem that Paramount is. Just does seem to be existing? It's like, everything. Let me start over. It's not everything is mcu. Everything is Sheridanverse now.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Because it's just like when the Sheridan projects would get announced, and it's like, oh, guess what? Helen Mirren and Harrison Ford are doing a TV show. We were still reeling, like, doing our normal podcast calendar of, like, taking a couple weeks to be like, no way. That doesn't seem likely. That seems like a press release. And then it premiered, like, six days later.

[Chris Ryan]

I have to.

[Andy Greenwald]

There's an element of that here.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Because. So this was essentially initially going to be a spin off called the Donovans, and it was going to be obviously based on Ray Donovan, and it was going to be the origin story of the Donovan. Yeah, I'm just doing this.

[Andy Greenwald]

So this was going to be the 1923 of Ray Donovan.

[Chris Ryan]

And funnily enough, Helen Mirren is in both 1923 and the. The 1923. But this is. I don't think that this is a period piece. It was created by Ronan Bennett who did Top Boy. Which is why I'm like, this is, this is something I'm very interested in. Guy Ritchie directed some of the episodes and yeah, Mirin and Brosnan play the head of a crime family and Tom Hardy is their enforcer. So I'm excited. That comes at the end of the month.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's, that's really wild. That's really soon.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's talk about the pit, though. Yeah. We have not spoken about the show for several weeks, which in pit time is about four or five hours. I've, I, I, I look forward to.

[Andy Greenwald]

Watching the show every week more than anything else.

[Chris Ryan]

Even when it sounds like the characters are reading blog posts about their own characters to each other, it still does so much to move me, to excite me, to thrill me. I have really, really gotten into these characters. Like, I've just really started to like you grow attached to these people. Even though there's this compression happening.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I feel like I, we are on now 10 episode 10 of 15. So we are at the 2/3 mark. Are we at 4pm?

[Andy Greenwald]

4Pm?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, we're at 6 o'.

[Andy Greenwald]

Clock. Yeah. The shift's almost over.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. And I will say that I've seen a lot of things happen on television over the last couple of years. There's a lot of really breathtaking moments. The Dinner from the bear, you know, the Big death on succession. Moments that you'll never forget. I'll never forget where I was when Dana got punched in the face on the pit.

[Andy Greenwald]

We were all punched in the face in that moment. Yeah, that was devastating. That was the act out of the episode. Yeah, that was actually the last.

[Chris Ryan]

You dropped a little Sean McVeigh. Full terminology.

[Andy Greenwald]

They were in 12 personnel in front of the hospital. That was the last moment Kya saw. We're about to spoil everything else for her.

[Chris Ryan]

But I'm sorry, Kya. And I have to say that there's not a ton of spoilers in the next episode until sort of the last act of this of 4pm so. But let's focus on talking about 3:45 here.

[Andy Greenwald]

Let's talk about the Dana thing. What this show has done with more efficiency and more speed than anything since the 90s, which is what the show was expressly designed to recreate. Apologies to the HBO MAX discovery lawyers who are having to defend that in court now is just make us love people to our bones very, very quickly. The number of that guys and that gals on the show that I feel deeply, deeply emotionally connected to, like from the security chief to every Nurse is so intense.

[Chris Ryan]

Shout out.

[Andy Greenwald]

Perla and Seth. Love Perla. Love Perla went on a journey this episode she couldn't handle. The heat is so intense and such a wonderful, wonderful, familiar callback to the way we used to engage with tv. And so to bring it to this point where Dana, who is the constant through these first nine hours and is drawn so sharply by and so quickly with so relatively few brushstrokes. Cause she doesn't get a lot of reps. She's just always there. And Katherine Lanasa is such a great performer and such a wonderful warming presence that you feel like you know her better than you do. For her to be hit devastating by that guy, that guy. The guy we all hate. And by the way, Doug.

[Chris Ryan]

Doug.

[Andy Greenwald]

Classic Doug. That guy, that guy, he got laid off from title. He's having a hard event.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, he was working remotely in Pittsburgh.

[Andy Greenwald]

He was working remotely in Pittsburgh.

[Chris Ryan]

He was way more bang for his buck in real estate.

[Andy Greenwald]

He was in charge of Hulu's live stream of the Oscars and then had some sort of cardiac event and he had to go to the er.

[Chris Ryan]

There is a tension on the show, I think, that you can see as this season has gone on, of things that they definitely want to say about the. Yeah, contemporary current medical system, our. Our hospitals, our insurance system, all these social critiques, all of which I tend to agree with. But you can feel it a little bit. Like we need to have a character here who is going to be like, why haven't I been seen yet? I could be having a heart attack. Yeah, And I will say they did. They did bring in a. An ankle sprain before they cleared the decks with this guy.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, I think they were actually playing favorites a little bit.

[Chris Ryan]

No, no, you don't think. No, I don't think.

[Andy Greenwald]

This guy was. This guy's a monster. He was racist. He was racist to. What's his name? The beautiful boy.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, but they. Mateo. But they would theoretically. Like you'd want to clear him faster. I know. You know, like the silent heart attack. I've never heard of that before. So I don't know how silent it is.

[Andy Greenwald]

I mean, I have them constantly, but usually I'm just worried. So, you know, I don't mind that they're giving him the slow treatment.

[Chris Ryan]

It happens every time you bed down for a transatlantic fight. It's true.

[Andy Greenwald]

I have a lot. Weirdly, right before my trips, I tend to have heart attacks.

[Chris Ryan]

So, yeah, she. Dana is obviously the angel of this show. Katherine Lynass is so great. And she gets punched in the face really hard outside of the hospital by this fucking guy Doug. So the episode sort of culminates with that.

[Andy Greenwald]

I do want to. Can we talk about what you were. What you've. You've alluded to twice. So with this show, and it's actually a good episodic pairing for us to talk about this with paradise, because we are getting the absolute highs and lows of the broadcast network experience, even though neither of these shows are actually on broadcast networks. But the Pit is first and foremost above beyond anything else. It is super entertaining, it is super emotionally engaging and endearing. And I'm not kidding, it is the show that I look forward to the most watching at the moment every week. It is capable of absolute, staggering highs. Like the episode where Robbie teaches people how to mourn or seeing what happens to Dana and wondering what's gonna happen next. It also does have scenes like you were talking about that feel like the stories I heard about shows that had to go into production when the writers strike was happening, when they just had, like, notes, because as soon as Dana is punched, suddenly there's, like, this Greek chorus of all the nurses just spouting Huffington Post facts about violence in hospitals. And then. Poor, poor. What's the woman who plays the hospital administrator whose name is Michael? I forget her name. I should have it in front of me.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, from. From the Wire.

[Andy Greenwald]

From the Wire. And she plays. Hold on, I'm gonna get this right. Michael Hyatt is her name, and maybe it's pronounced Michelle. I'm sorry, but Gloria Underwood is the character. The most thankless part on contemporary television. She just swings in like a pinata at key moments for everyone to be, like, this fucking guy. So for her to arrive just at that moment, to literally be the straw administrator whose fault this is, was incredible. But there is something I keep wanting to say that it's unique, but it's not unique. It's just rare at this present time with TV that it can be the best and also the clunkiest. And it doesn't really take away from the experience of enjoying the show.

[Chris Ryan]

There was definitely something in the first sort of set of episodes that I think we talked. Talked about in detail about our relationship to the patients was deepened by the time spent with them. Because they would go from being like, they just come in now. They're being attended to, but they're still like, are they going to recover? So there was. It was not uncommon to have a case last over the course of two, two and a half, three Episodes, I think that that's gotten shortened a little bit. I think you sent me a message that I knew you were gonna send about the drowned child.

[Andy Greenwald]

So this is episode eight.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

I was unable to complete watching this episode. I cannot do that. That was. And that's intentional.

[Chris Ryan]

I was able to. But I care a lot about pool safety. So you've been.

[Andy Greenwald]

You used to be a lifeguard. I know, I know you probably saw videos like this all the time to like impress upon you the importance of it. That was not possible for me to watch. But I guess kudos to the show for having again, just the breadth of story that it can do that and do the thing that these shows so brilliantly do and have been doing for 30 plus years where you don't know which way it's gonna go and the people who make the show know that the audience is on tenterhooks and they know that they have a number of pathways available to them in terms of what type of story they want to tell and the effects they want it to have on the characters. Not.

[Chris Ryan]

I have no complaints about that plotline. I was very moved by it. I also found the. Is it right? Is it the episode after that where Collins and Dana kind of briefly hold hands in the room where they're talking about like, Robbie's talking about how difficult it is to like get over the kids dying and then that speech gets interrupted by yet another crisis. It's always another crisis. I did want to ask you just like a practical question. What is going. What was going on with the child trafficking story or the human trafficking storyline?

[Andy Greenwald]

I like that you're like, because I know I'm legit. Like, here's the thing, I thought you're going to be like a practical question as a parent when your child goes into the a medical situation. But instead you were like, Andy, if there's one thing you're passionate about, it's children trafficking. Children trafficking. Child trafficking. I think. Well, a couple things. I think that. That the volume of cases on this show is a strength and that they can just run through so many scenarios, so many possibilities. And I think that the answer to this is also part of the question you were asking about like. Or the question we were both asking about, like the efficacy of the group of nurses just reciting facts.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

The show is very much written and there have been stories like our guy Reggie Ugu wrote about this in the Times. Like medical professionals have really championed the show.

[Chris Ryan]

The inbox for the Watch, which you can reach us@thewatch Spotify.com is full of testimonials from people working in hospitals. One day we're going to have to just do kind of a compendium of them, but like, of people being like, this is as real as it fucking.

[Andy Greenwald]

And also I have kind of a rash on my back. I'd love to show them if they're available for like a back and forth. It's not itching, but it is. I did notice it. No, but I think that one of the reasons why they're responding to it is not just that, like, that's the correct amount of propofol to dose someone with. They're responding to the fact that, like, people don't understand how much is that. That they're not. That the show is actually showing the breadth of the job, that it is not just doing surgeries or administering people, checking things about them. It is also being the front line for social failings of this country, for crime, for things slipping through the cracks. And so that storyline was opaque in the sense that is it leading to something? I mean, that's the other thing, right? That, like, if this was er. Everyone in the Michael Crichton estate, their ears perk up. That storyline where a young woman shows up with her quote with her boss.

[Chris Ryan]

With her pregnant boss, who is also answering all the questions about her medical care, which leads McKay, who's getting a little afraid, I think, over the course of the day.

[Andy Greenwald]

She's also. She's a bit of an activist in there. That storyline would have paid off definitively over the course of two episodes or three episodes. Instead, what we get, and it might be all we get. And I think that that's one of the ways that the show is sort of conditioning us in how to watch in future seasons is that we may never know the answer to that. There may be.

[Chris Ryan]

I have a feeling we're gonna have a very tempestuous last third of this show.

[Andy Greenwald]

I mean, but they are also. But they're throwing a lot of stuff in the air and we're not sure which are coming back to us. Like, is it, you know, is it the incel kid?

[Chris Ryan]

Is it kill less kid?

[Andy Greenwald]

Is it the music festival that's going on? Is it that one? Or is it something we don't even expect? So I think that the purpose of that storyline was to some degree to kind of muddy the waters or confuse you, but ultimately it was to land on the fact that despite all of their goodwill, despite all of their very, very obvious suspicion, there wasn't anything they could do. But Give her a pen. Which is very. Say anything of of them.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, that's right. Callback.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, when this show first started, I think that the cases and the jargon and the sheer nerve wracking tension of watching surgeries and watching all this stuff happen was the star of the show. And it is doing what I had kind of hoped, which is that sheerly, from spending 9, 10 hours with these people, we have now started to like, get more than just like Santos seems like a real problem child here. Like you. These characters are now getting more and more fleshed out. You're getting McKay, you meet her ex. You meet.

[Andy Greenwald]

That seemed a bit far fetched to me, but okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. But I. I think it was good to show both sides of that character at the same time. It was cool to have her both, like, bantering with her ex and, you know, getting kind of teased about that, but also calling the cops on the incel kid and also trying to delay the release of the woman she thinks is being trafficked.

[Andy Greenwald]

She's across a lot.

[Chris Ryan]

She's. She's really stressed out. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And is she in Mateo? We think that's happening.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think. I don't know. She seems like she's still like. What's her ex's name? Chad.

[Andy Greenwald]

Cliff? Chad. Something like that.

[Chris Ryan]

I think it was Chad. I think she still seems to have a candle for him. This also comes into. I think Perlin is with the arc of the Langdon character.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, we gotta talk about this. So this is, again, it is kind of fun to have a Show that is 15 hours. It's not six, it's not eight. So the crescendo moments that we've come to expect rhythmically that like three episodes in, something big might happen. Penultimate episode, something Big happens is thrown off a little bit. So much stuff is being thrown at us that, like I said, we don't know what's going to come back down and what's going to land. I didn't have on my bingo card. Major cast upheaval in episode 10.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. So there has been a subplot to this season where Santos, the young doctor Santos uses basically on her first day, has been finding bottles of medicine that she thinks have been tampered with.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. And there was something with the, like, Louis Librium was not the correct number of pills. There was a couple question marks, red.

[Chris Ryan]

Flags, essentially, like, you know, she's starting to become suspicious now. Her suspicions are couched with the fact that Langdon is the only one who really seems to take Deep offense to Trinity's cockiness and her, you know, some of her behavioral stuff. But she's obviously like, a very talented and intuitive doctor, and he seems to be really, like, going after her and also very aware that, like, other people are noticing this now. So as he gets increasingly paranoid, I think, like, you know, she. They've been putting out this breadcrumbs of the narrative over the course of the season that these two are on a collision course. But you're led to believe it's going to be more about workplace harassment, bullying, and. Or like these generational clashes that happen. And instead, it turns out that Langdon has been stealing benzos to wean himself off of painkillers that he had been taking for a back injury. And that a doctor. Yeah, so he claims. And it's a searing scene at the end of the most recent episode where Noah Wiley's character Robbie confronts Langdon. It's awesome. Where he's just like, open this locker and like, you know, don't make me make security come do it. And just kicks him out of the hospital sight unseen. Not sight unseen. He finds Librium. So I guess site, he sees it. And the Langdon character immediately, like, kind of goes into defensive, pleading behavior. Yeah, like, very, very obviously, like, trying to figure it out. Patrick Ball does a really good job in that. You know, this is essentially like, if you wanted to map it against er, which I'm sure do not want us to do. Patrick Ball, his Dr. Langdon is essentially Doug Ross. He's like, if. If Robbie is the Mark Green, Langdon is the attractive, younger, hotshot Dr. Bantering with Garcia all the time, and he kind of falls apart in the middle of the day. What'd you think of this?

[Andy Greenwald]

So I think, as I have said many times, I love the show. Just unabashedly, I think that it's been. It was interesting to note for all the balls that are in the air, they do lose track of them sometimes, or they are still figuring out the conceit that they've created. In terms of the show being one day, hour to hour, I think that, as you said, there were breadcrumbs that that was it. The drug storyline was something to be monitoring. If you look backwards, Langdon's behavior, especially in the last few hours.

[Chris Ryan]

I need to make some salmon tonight.

[Andy Greenwald]

Or that you make rash decisions. You have adopted a dog. You're an adrenaline junkie. You're a junkie. Like that stuff him, the way that he yelled at Santos, those were telling spikes on the old EKG character meter. Um, that said I think that it was kind of muffled and lost like there, in, in, in there. There may be a number of authors of the slight myths, in my opinion, one of which is Patrick Ball's really, really good. As a handsome, caring and intuitive doctor, I'd never at any point in the 10 episodes we had bought that he had any edge to him whatsoever in any direction.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I guess that makes it all the more surprising, right?

[Andy Greenwald]

I guess it makes it surprising. But I, I think that there are pieces at play that they. That are Doug Ross esque or we've seen in most other. Maybe even, I was gonna say more conventional, but just let's just say other medical dramas, which is adrenaline, God complex, hero complex and characters so giving him more variation so that the fall lands more. It doesn't just seem like another discharge from the hospital, I think would have been better. Now it feels a little bit greedy to be like, I love everything about this. And they're figuring out what could be a hit formula that works for years and I wish it was better. Yeah, it also could be. We don't know. We don't know what the next few episodes will bring and we don't know what the next few seasons will bring. It could be that the Langdon character was designed to be a misdirect that we thought we were getting Doug Ross for the next five years and it was a 10 episode arc, guest star arc. Yeah, I could also see like, and that also might be why, you know, again, like, the show has done a great job casting younger people, but if you go by Wikipedia, all the major actors have been in many other things and Patrick Ball has not. Right, Right.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I would like to. I would like to see whether or not. I'm very curious to see how like, what cast comes over from this season to the next season. I'm curious to see how far they say, like we go ahead in time. You know, like will. Will season two of the Pit take place three days after season one, Two months, a year. Like when do they. Within terms of the story and whether or not he gets some sort of. I mean, can you come back from that? I don't actually know what the rules are with something like that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Seems iffy. But also he was really doing a good job being a doctor. I mean, again, like, I, I'm an armchair physician here, but just moments before.

[Chris Ryan]

Whatever more doctors take Librium.

[Andy Greenwald]

I mean, I'm just saying he had a very steady hand when he was cutting the burn guy's skin off.

[Chris Ryan]

Would you be up for season Two of the pit Slow Tuesday.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes, it's such. I mean, the thing is they. And obviously the writer's room has probably already begun. They've thought about this. But, like, how do you pick your day?

[Chris Ryan]

Right?

[Andy Greenwald]

And not just like, do you pick.

[Chris Ryan]

Or is the truth about there is no slow Tuesday in the Merchant emergency rooms?

[Andy Greenwald]

I think that's. That's definitely part of the truth of it. And there's never going to be a slow Tuesday on the room where everything happens all the time. But, like, what level of time jump will we see A week, a month, two years? I mean, it's all, it's all in play. But I, I do think about the fact that, like, for as much of a slam dunk as. Sorry, everyone, sorry. Legal teams making ER again with much of the team was.

[Chris Ryan]

I just feel like every time, like, Casey Blaze was like, so mad.

[Andy Greenwald]

Sorry. But they were making this up as they went along and it was a leap of faith, like the way they were filming it, the characters they had chosen, doing it in 24 style and the resources.

[Chris Ryan]

Wait, what do you mean making it up to?

[Andy Greenwald]

What I just mean is, like, they conceived to have wrote and shot and edited these 15 episodes. No one knew what was coming. And there's a commitment on. All shows are like that to a degree, but, like, the confidence with which they're pulling off a lot of this really technical, high level, difficult stuff, story wise and technically. Technically, it's kind of amazing to me, you know, there was no. If this had been a broadcast show in the 90s, they would not have had 15 episodes banked before they started. Sure, they would have had, you know, four to six in various stages of production, and then they would have been getting feedback, they would have gotten early reviews, they could tweak if they needed to. And I think that they just. It is a sign of, like, a very steady hand that they knew what this was. They knew what they had. In Noah Wiley's performance and in, I guess, in his creative involvement across the board, I mean, that Noah Wiley on the show, I think, is the performance of the year.

[Chris Ryan]

I just think he's. Yeah, I think he. I was gonna say that. The thing that blows my mind is that in the beginning of this episode, he's giving this tearful, like, eulogy essentially for. Was that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Maybe that was the previous episode.

[Chris Ryan]

Previous episode. But in the course of it, two hours, he goes from giving a tearful eulogy for a young girl to angrily on the verge of tears, dismissing one of his lieutenants from.

[Andy Greenwald]

And doing a Medium story in the middle where he gets very angry and upset about McKay and her behavior with the cops. And then giving her a chance to fix the baseball kid's eye and then saying, I didn't consider your point of view. It is an emotional modulation of a human that I think we all should aspire to, but in terms of performance, too. How is he tracking this? How is he tracking?

[Chris Ryan]

I hope we get a chance to talk to him about it.

[Andy Greenwald]

I do, too. I think he's just incredible on this.

[Chris Ryan]

We can wrap it up there. The pit still awesome. Paradise. I'm a fan, man.

[Andy Greenwald]

TV's kind of back. This is a meat and potatoes TV episode for us and that we are watching television shows and talking about them and kicking and screaming, but I was willing to do it for you because you're my guy. But that this is part of the healthy TV diet. Shows like this to have the thing that you're looking forward to.

[Chris Ryan]

I like this. Stop giving it away for free. We're gonna build the TV diet next week.

[Andy Greenwald]

The pyramid.

[Chris Ryan]

I believe in us next week. No, we're not.

[Andy Greenwald]

I got a lot going on.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, we will. Let's do it soon.

[Chris Ryan]

Monday we will be back. We will have some reaction to the latest episode of White Lotus.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan]

And then we are going to be joined by a very special guest.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Danny McBride back on the watch. And we're going to talk about the season premiere of Righteous Gemstones. I'm so excited to talk to Danny about this first episode.

[Andy Greenwald]

I don't know if it's worth pretending it hasn't happened, because we will. Unless people think we just decided to wear these clothes again.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I said. I said Danny Boubai will be on the show with certainty because it's already happened. It was a great, great time hanging out with him. And I'm so excited for people to see the new season of Righteous Gemstones. Thank you to Kaya. Thank you to ct. Thank you to you.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, thank you. The.

[Chris Ryan]

The. The sort of architect of the healthy TV pyramid.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes. The C. Everett coupe. The C. Everett Special Agent Cooper.

[Chris Ryan]

Is Coop canceled? Is he good? I mean, one of the guys, one of the surgeon generals, had, like, a very weird last three innings of his life.

[Andy Greenwald]

It may have been Coop, only because he had a very weird facial hair thing. And I feel like.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you listen to Bill and Rossello on Sunday?

[Andy Greenwald]

Not yet, no.

[Chris Ryan]

The first 20 minutes is just about facial hair and how their facial hair over the course of their lives often mirrored whatever was in fashion in baseball.

[Andy Greenwald]

So they had like the Giambi. Like what did they.

[Chris Ryan]

It was like the lotto chin stuff. And then also like sometimes sideburns came all the way down. But then we had like the Chipper Jones moment where we were going all the way up. We're gonna see how, how far north sideburns could go.

[Andy Greenwald]

The first. I'm sorry, you said the first 30 minutes of their Sunday night podcast.

[Chris Ryan]

More like 15:20. But it's, it's beautiful, beautiful podcasting.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's peak podcasting. Now. If I no longer acknowledge the existence of the NBA, I just want to.

[Chris Ryan]

Say Ryan Rossolo is making a show unlike any other right now. Yeah, Brian Russello has recently done an episode about King Henry V. He recently had Les Claypool from Primus on his.

[Andy Greenwald]

Show what a King.

[Chris Ryan]

And is just talking about facial hair at the top of a podcast. Two hour long podcast by the NBA. He's the best.

[Andy Greenwald]

Some lead, others follow.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Andy Greenwald]

He is amazing.

[Chris Ryan]

Greenwald, great to see you. Talk to you on one day.

[Andy Greenwald]

Adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained. One who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly. They do not always show up on time, but when they arrive, you notice an individual. Individual confident in their contradictions. They know the rules, but behave as if they do not exist. New Teen the new fragrance by Miu Miu Defined by you. This episode is brought to you by the all new ESPN app. All of ESPN all in one place.

[Chris Ryan]

Your home for the most live sports.

[Andy Greenwald]

And best championship moments. It's the ultimate fan experience. Step up your game and get even.

[Chris Ryan]

More than before with no annual contract required.

[Andy Greenwald]

Level up.

[Chris Ryan]

For More on the ESPN app or.

[Andy Greenwald]

At stream.espn.com sign up now.