The ‘Euphoria’ S3 Trailer, ‘Hijack’ and ‘The Night Manager’ Return, and ‘The Pitt’ S2E2

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Watch – January 16, 2026

Episode: The ‘Euphoria’ S3 Trailer, ‘Hijack’ and ‘The Night Manager’ Return, and ‘The Pit’ S2E2
Hosts: Andy Greenwald and Chris Ryan

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Overview

Andy Greenwald and Chris Ryan of The Ringer gather to break down a packed slate of TV news and premieres: the first look at "Euphoria" Season 3, the returns of "Hijack" and "The Night Manager," and their thoughts on "The Pitt" Season 2, Episode 2. The episode is rich with discussion about how TV is (and isn’t) evolving, the effects of platform budgets on show quality, and, of course, their signature tangents and banter.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Opening Banter and Announcements

• Chris announces a live podcast show in Boston with Yassi Salek and Pat Flynn for the "Something in the Way Fest."
• Humorous reminiscing about their rough early apartments and “mouse opportunities.”
• Running joke about Andy’s recently completed 800-page book on German history, which he references frequently throughout the episode.

2. The ‘Euphoria’ Season 3 Trailer

[06:43–14:45]

• Chris and Andy discuss the long-awaited return of HBO’s "Euphoria."
• Chris is bullish: "For the haters and the losers and the doubters, you guys are wrong. The show is coming back. Levinson's coming back for his crown. And this show looks incredible." (07:01)
• Andy admits he's never seen "Euphoria," positioning himself as a blank slate ready to jump in this season.
• Trailer described as "Goodfellas meets Magnolia" (07:08), referencing Sean Fennessey's viral take.
• Cast additions include Sharon Stone, Natasha Lyonne, Danielle Deadwyler, Rosalia, Marshawn Lynch, and Homer Gere.
• Chris: “Rue, played by Zendaya, has been in some dire straits… it’s about her deepening descent into the criminal underworld of Los Angeles.” (08:31)
• Andy considers watching S3 cold; they discuss the broader normalization of jumping into TV shows midstream due to long franchise gaps.
• Both are excited, especially for Zendaya's performance: "She is so fucking good on this show." (12:09)
• Acknowledgment of the show’s humor amid dark topics: “Is the show funny?” “Yes.” (08:59–09:01)

Notable Quote

• Chris: “I think we need to normalize people jumping in in later seasons… as Hollywood has taken longer and longer to make shows, as movie franchises have stretched across decades…” (07:54)

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3. TV News Roundup — New and Returning Series

A. Tell Me Lies S3

[14:50–23:04]

• Chris recaps "Tell Me Lies," a college drama described as “the darkest soap I think I’ve ever watched.”
• Tells an anecdote about a character, Steven, “psychologically terrorizing” his girlfriend Lucy on MDMA.
• Andy and Chris joke about the show’s wild moral lines and trauma cycles.
• The depiction of toxic relationships is extreme but compelling: “This is the greatest crime I've ever seen…” (19:50)
• Andy: “I have never pocketed drugs and allowed other people to go on a journey, but I have been guilty of ‘let’s get one more — good night.’” (21:44–21:54)

B. Streaming and Release Strategies

• Frustration with streaming multi-episode drops creating homework for viewers and confusion when catching up.

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4. "Hijack" Season 2 Impressions

[25:36–36:10]

• Both enjoyed S1 for its simple "Idris Elba as super-negotiator on a hijacked plane" premise.
• S2 starts on a Berlin subway; both found the setup confusing, with a muddled "previously on" and complex new conspiracies.
• Andy’s theory: Streamers deliberately complicate returning shows to drive rewatching and time spent on platform (28:00).
• Critique of the premiere: "It's 40 minutes to get 30 seconds." (33:34)
• Questioned if show can recapture the simplicity and fun of S1, citing S2's more convoluted mythology and less claustrophobic setting (subway vs. plane).

Notable Quotes

• Chris: “My relationship to Hijack is not much different than my relationship to Speed the movie… I was just like, here's a cool character who's real good at negotiating.” (27:20)
• Andy: "I have to say I was not particularly optimistic after this first episode… I thought the cleverness of the twist was too heavily… invested in." (33:07)

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5. "The Night Manager" S2 & Prestige Spy TV

[36:10–47:20]

• S2 of "Night Manager" is an Amazon production now, nearly a decade since S1 aired.
• Andy notes S2 pivots away from John Le Carré’s tone, losing some of the source material’s quiet detachment and wit: “It’s not just not your father’s John Le Carré… I don’t think it’s really John Le Carré.” (37:53)
• Chris: “Tonally... I associate with Le Carré a degree of detachment from the action.” (38:40)
• They critique the show's generic modern spycraft (CCTV, surveillance tech) vs. classic analog espionage.
• Cast is praised — Diego Calva and Camila Morrone singled out.
• Both will keep watching despite reservations about fidelity to the original’s spirit.

Notable Quotes

• Andy: “Everything is so hyper sexy, hyper literal, and just kind of clunky…” (37:53)
• Chris: “It just kind of feels a little bit more honestly like the Krasinski iteration of Jack Ryan in that show.” (40:52)

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6. "Ponies" (Peacock) and TV’s Escalating Budget Divide

[47:20–52:46]

• Contrasts blockbuster budgets ("Night Manager") with mid-scale originals like "Ponies."
• "Ponies" is a Cold War dramedy starring Emilia Clarke and Haley Lu Richardson as CIA spouses in 1970s Moscow.
• The hosts observe a growing class divide in television: Apple, Amazon, and Netflix productions often look much more expensive, affecting audience engagement.
• "Ponies" praised for originality, self-awareness, and a fresh comedic spin on the spy genre, but Andy wonders if its lower budget will cap its impact.

Industry Takeaway

• Chris references his experience showrunning “Briarpatch”: imaginative ideas must match actual resources, otherwise the conceptual scope overshoots the feasible production (“…that episode would have been better if it had been written from the perspective of the people inside the house while things are exploding.” 50:05).

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7. Smart TV Writing in a Budget-Conscious Era

[52:46–55:48]

• Andy cites “Seven Kingdoms” (the new HBO Thrones prequel) as a show that smartly chooses to “go deep, not wide.”
• Comparison: Shows like "The Pit," with their economical settings and focus on depth, succeed creatively despite not looking “expensive.”
• Both recommend giving new series a few episodes beyond the pilot, as resource allocation and creative focus often find their groove after the opener.

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8. "The Pit" Season 2, Episode 2 Breakdown

[55:48–67:56]

• "The Pit" returns to its gnarly, medical horror roots: “Did we ask Casey Bloys if this show would be so fucking gross?” (56:03)
• This episode leans hard into medical body horror (maggots, bone and arm trauma), while maintaining deadpan humor and fast-paced character banter.
• Chris: “I have found there to be a heightened sense of humor in this season.” (58:05)
• Character work: Dana’s comic lines, Mel’s gross-out heroics, new recruits getting gradually more screen time.
• The tension between new management’s tech/AI push (Dr. Al Hashimi) and the ER’s old-guard gut instincts is set up as a major theme.
• Cast departures and replacements are handled matter-of-factly (“Oh, she doesn’t work Tuesdays.” 70:09).
• Both hosts marvel at the series’ unflagging rhythm and ability to deliver tension, humor, and character arcs far beyond genre expectations.

Notable Quotes

• Andy: “...this show is just absolutely clicking in its second season, but there it is. It's still not broke, and they have still managed to perfect it.” (67:40)
• Chris: “...there's a little more room for that [banter] before whatever the Pitfest that happens this season emerges.” (58:50)

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9. Riff Zone: Crudité Platters, Generation X & Medical Trauma

[68:33–69:24]

• Extended bit on the dangers of eating raw broccoli ("a floret, as we say") and grocery store crudité platters: “I'm going to be honest — if I'm going to have a dip, I'm going to have a chip.” (69:01)
• Relate ER scenes to their childhoods, movies like “Lethal Weapon,” and how 1980s pop culture warped expectations of pain and bone trauma.
• Chris: “We grew up in the, in the era of guys getting shot by Uzis in the arm and being like, it's just a flesh wound…” (63:07)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:43] – Beginning of Euphoria S3 discussion
• [14:50] – “Tell Me Lies” S3, dark college drama
• [25:36] – Hijack S2 first impressions
• [36:10] – Night Manager S2 (and adaptation critiques)
• [47:20] – Ponies, budget gaps, and TV production class divides
• [52:46] – How clever writing and focused storytelling beat big budgets
• [55:48] – The Pit S2E2 detailed breakdown
• [68:33] – Broccoli, Generation X and medical trauma bit

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Memorable Quotes

• Chris (Euphoria optimism):
  “For the haters and the losers and the doubters, you guys are wrong. The show is coming back. Levinson's coming back for his crown. And this show looks incredible.” – [07:01]

• Andy (on TV’s budget gap):
  "It is a very, very strange moment in television when, if you subscribe to multiple services, these all come through the same tube, but they could not be more different in terms of... their budget and execution." – [44:52]

• Chris (on "The Pit" s2):
  "I think that the story device of this is Robbie's last day for a while is good because it kind of gives his character a little bit of senioritis. Not that he's taking any time off of the intensity of his work, but..." – [59:57]

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Tone and Chemistry

• Reflective, irreverent, and deeply knowledgeable, with easy banter and frequent inside jokes.
• Willingness to interrogate industry trends while poking fun at themselves.
• Genuine enthusiasm for TV that surprises or challenges them.

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Final Thoughts

Andy and Chris provide a brisk, enthusiastic, and critical survey of premium television’s current landscape. “The Pit” stands out as a highlight, while returning thrillers ("Hijack," "Night Manager") are judged by both their legacy and by the realities of modern TV production. The episode is not just a review, but a lively ongoing conversation about what makes television engaging (or not) in the streaming age.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Stand up and walk now.

[B]

Hello and welcome to the Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] and joining me in the studio, he was just making content. It's Andy Greenwald.

[A]

What am I. You have a title. I just noticed this. After 13 years, I feel like you're a screenwriter.

[B]

You're a bon vivant. You're a gourmand.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

You greet every day thinking about what contributions you can make to discourse and to the great conversation that we're all having about TV and film and culture.

[A]

Here we are. Welcome back to Rome's premier fiddling podcast.

[B]

Greenwald. Today on the show, some news and notes at the top. We're doing the Pit episode two, season two. We're going to also take a run through some new shows that or some returning shows that came back this week.

[A]

I think that if it has been a decade since you last aired, you retroactively can.

[B]

Yeah. So Night Manager, Hijack and Ponies. We're also going to talk about today. We will have a show on Monday.

[A]

We discussed and decided what better way to celebrate.

[B]

Well, just because season finale of Landman, Return of. Well, not Return, but a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms first episode. I'm also going to be talking about that with Mal and Joe as a sort of programming reminder.

[A]

Who gets the real. The real juicy nuggets, you know what I mean?

[B]

I think that with Mal and Joe.

[A]

Who gets the main dining room and who gets the private chef's table of opinions?

[B]

Well, it depends on which one you'd want to dine at. You know what I mean, that's right. Who gets the Max and Helens of my ideas? I'm burying the lead here. I do have an announcement. Oh, I am joining my buddy Yassi Salik. We are going to be doing a band Spleen from Boston at the end of the month.

[A]

What?

[B]

So I just wanted to give people a heads up. We are joining the festivities for the Something in the Way Fest which is going to be headlined by Sunny D Real Estate and Explosions in the Sky. We're doing a pod at the Sinclair. That'll be on January 30th, Friday, January 30th at 8pm and we're going to be joined by Pat Flynn from Fiddlehead. We're probably going to do some kind of draft, but it'll be a really fun show, so. So me and Yassi will be in town for that on Friday. And then on Saturday Yassi and I will be at the Coolidge Cinema, which is where we did a bunch of rewatchables stuff last year. And we're going to be presenting a late night screening on 31st. So just keep your eye out because tickets go on sale at ringer.com events for that Sinclair show. And we'll let you know about the Coolidge Corner Theater show. That's on Saturday, so keep your eyes out for details. Ringer.com events I'll remind people people on Monday, but I just wanted to give them a heads up. Tickets will go on sale on Tuesday.

[A]

Can I suggest something or ask? Maybe you've already thought of this. I think that you should offer a premium experience to Chase Sapphire. I'm sorry, Wells Fargo, whoever's Wayfair, whoever is sponsoring this podcast, customers where you give them an exclusive walking tour of your Boston.

[B]

I would, but there's a lot of my haunts are either gone or shadows of their former selves.

[A]

Well, look, as someone who just read a book about pre war Berlin, I get it.

[B]

How many times do you think you can mention that you read this book?

[A]

This is gonna be my new bit. I thought it was gonna be subtle.

[B]

It's not subtle. You do it on text too.

[A]

It's coming up in hijacks too. So get ready.

[B]

So mark it.

[A]

Anyway, I think that it still would be of value. You could go by. Where was it in Roxbury where you had like the house with the guys in the band and you woke up and there were like rats on the record player. Like that would be.

[B]

It was not rats. It was a couple of mice. Yes, we had a mouse problem at.

[A]

Okay, you had a Mouse. Opportunity.

[B]

We also had the advantage of. Our landlord was deceased, so we didn't pay rent.

[A]

Were you involved in that?

[B]

Nope.

[A]

Okay. Statute of limitations. Okay, so you could go by there.

[B]

What is the statue of limitations for murder?

[A]

I didn't say you murdered him.

[B]

Oh, well, like, how would I be involved otherwise?

[A]

You just let it happen?

[B]

No, I. There was. It was one of those, like, only in the late 90s kinds of situations where you just were like, I think our landlord's not with us anymore.

[A]

So how long did you stay past that date?

[B]

We stayed for, like, eight or nine months. And then the landlord's widow was like, guess what?

[A]

For what it's worth, I had a similar apartment my first. Leave my mice. Yeah, I had an apartment in my first apartment in Brooklyn. In retrospect, I'm not sure if the people who I paid monthly had anything to do with the actual real estate in which I lived.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, I would go to one house, like, by the park, and I would just deliver her a check, and then that was it. And then I would just continue to live in this other place on 17th Street.

[B]

Those people invented Airbnb, and I think.

[A]

They did, but it was also. No, it wasn't Airbnb, because it was more of, like, a Freegan situation because there was a front door to the building that just didn't lock. And we showed up. We were like, that's wonderful. It's. We're part of the community. And then the community repo manned my roommate's bicycle and my laptop.

[B]

I forgot about that. I remember those days.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I could do a walking tour of that. That would be limited.

[B]

So, yeah, I'm very excited to come to Boston. You know that if. If I'm voluntarily going to Boston at the end of January. Yeah, it's hot. It's. It's. It's a. It's a good time. So Yassi and I are really excited and. Please come. I move here to see people.

[A]

How many layers you gonna wear?

[B]

Untold. Like. Like an infinite amount of layers. A couple of things at the top.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Before we get to our shows.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Our programs.

[A]

Let's do it.

[B]

Our stories, Euphoria, season three. We're sitting on a pile of gold over here at Ryan Investments. Not that anybody. This isn't, like, a hot tip, like, bet on Euphoria, but for the haters and the losers and the doubters, you guys are wrong. The show is coming back. Levinson's coming back for the. For his crown. And this show looks incredible as Sean pointed out on Twitter, our buddy Sean Fantasy. It looks like he just made Goodfellas Slash Magnolia. He's Sean's Adebeezy from Oz.

[A]

Sean's still cranking it out on X. Yeah.

[B]

Sean, I think, has a very. He's a samurai. Nothing will distract him.

[A]

I respect it. Okay, so the trailer looks like the trailer for a very exciting piece of entertainment.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

As someone who, and I think this is unique in the professional critic slash media podcaster space, has never seen a frame of the show.

[B]

You've never watched any euphoria at all?

[A]

Not a frame? No, man, you missed out. Well, I think I need. Or again, like you with the mice, it's an opportunity. You know what I mean? Like, I could now engage and I could be a blank slate to respond to whether he has, in fact made Goodfellas meets Megalo.

[B]

You mean when you watch season three with no pre. I think we need to normalize this. I think we need to normalize people jumping in in later seasons. I think that as Hollywood has taken longer and longer to make shows, as movies franchises have stretched across decades, and I have many people stopping me on the street, tears in their eyes, saying, sir, can I watch the Bone Temple? If I have not seen 28 months.

[A]

Later, if I previously not prayed in that particular house of worship. Yeah.

[B]

And I say, yes. I say it's okay. I say a lot of these movies, a lot of these shows will do the work to inform you where they're at. I will just tell you. Rue, played by Zendaya, has been in some dire straits.

[A]

Yeah. So I don't understand. I thought this was a high school show.

[B]

It.

[A]

First of all, the entire show, the.

[B]

Cast are in their 30s. For her plotline, it's about addiction and it's about salvation, and it is about her increasing her deepening descent into the criminal underworld of Los Angeles. At least that's, like, happening in season two.

[A]

Is the show funny?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because the trailer had some jokes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Don't you. Have you seen the memes of, like, of Sydney Sweeney in the bathroom being like, are you saying I look like I'm in Oklahoma?

[A]

No. I don't know if I need to reiterate it on this podcast, but I recently read an 800 page book about German history. I don't dwell in these meme worlds.

[B]

I honestly do feel like we should get a counter going. Can we do a ding?

[A]

I would love that. I would love it. And by the way, I have not.

[B]

And I'm gonna give you the first Dozen times that you've mentioned it the last couple weeks where you're just like, as somebody who's on page 230 of a post.

[A]

Well, that. Weeks ago. Because, as I've mentioned, I finished the book. Yeah. And I am unsponsored by the New York Times.

[B]

I think I have been a very. I've been really supportive of this project.

[A]

I think that maybe I'm responding to that more than anything else because you were the one who believed in me early when on my holiday vacation, sent you a picture of the brick that I.

[B]

You know what it is? It's. I didn't think you were going to read it. You bought it. I know you bought it. And I was like, you, you.

[A]

And we've all done this on vacation.

[B]

Such a sucker for New York Review of Books editions. And I feel like you are, you know, a compulsive book buyer. Often hitting me up from Romans, from Skylight. What do you heard about this? What do you heard about that? I'm like, brother, we still haven't finished Anna Karenina. You know, Like, I have. I come. My reading.

[A]

I read it 25 years ago.

[B]

I'm talking about myself. I'm saying my book reading comes from a place of shame, from what I haven't done. Oh, and I feel like you. You're like, I got four books going.

[A]

No, we are back in the age of Empire. I am expanding. I walk in to Skylight, and I'm like, looking at Greenland. You know what I mean? Like, I could take this. This is great for me.

[B]

So. But when you said that you had read, like 230 pages off the rip, I was like, this kid's gonna finish. It's gonna be amazing. I also did anticipate that the price of you finishing this book was you mercilessly bringing it up. Hit every opportunity, Be it euphoria, be it my live show in Austin, Dassey, whatever the case may be.

[A]

Yeah. Well, this is going to be a really, really fun episode.

[B]

So you'll go on the Euphoria journey with me, sight unseen, just like, blind. I think it's a good experiment.

[A]

I am. I'm interested. Can you go through? I don't have access to it, but, I mean, I don't have it called up, but I feel like there was also a lot of. There are a lot of new additions to the cast this season.

[B]

I mean, Sharon Stone's supposed to be in it. She was not in the trailer as far as I remember. And I think Sharon Stone's in it. And I Don't know if there's other people.

[A]

Maybe Kya can Google that for us that there was like, there was like an announcement a few months ago of like, Natasha Lyonne or something. Oh, okay. And the vibe, I. And this is again, this is not a ding. This makes me interested. I was getting major Gwyneth Paltrow. Oh, I wasn't in that movie vibes when she was talking about Spider Man. I don't know. Look. Run and Gun. Like, kind of Sam Levinson style of we don't know if we're making a TV show or not. That's interesting that this cast may or may not know that they are in this season of television.

[B]

Yeah. I think he also shot. It sounds like from the Jacob Elordi Sydney Sweeney Con like press tour that they've done for their respective films that have come out recently that there's a little bit of. A little bit of mystery even for the performers about how their stuff that they shot necessarily fits in with a larger hole. I'll tell you, the reason I have tickets for this show for me entirely is Zendaya. She is so fucking good on this show. And the Ru character is great. Um, I'm still sad that they did not do the proposed Rue becomes a private detective in Los Angeles.

[A]

That was the rumor, right?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know if that was ever even real, but kind of awesome. That was kind of sick. But I'm really impressed that they. I mean, when you think about how complicated the scheduling alone must be for those three stars, that's impressive.

[A]

Oh, right here.

[B]

What if I started dapping up shows for great scheduling? Nice job, guys.

[A]

It would be amazing. This is a sign of, like, how inside we've become.

[B]

That's a Golden Globe within the next two or three years by for sure.

[A]

Like the line Producer of the Year award for making this shit work. Yeah. So here's some of the announced cast. Danielle Deadweiler. We Love Station 11. The Great Eli Roth, you know, always prefer him in front of the camera than behind it. Natasha Leone. Sam Tramell. Kwame Patterson. Homer Gere. Young Gere.

[B]

Oh, Richard Gere's son. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. I guess it wasn't as starry as I expected. And I. No one's asking Homer Gere if he's willing to pay test day.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I'm not familiar with her work, but she's. She's a YouTuber.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, I mean, I'm broadly aware of what she does, but I can't say that I have consumed a lot of It.

[A]

Oh, no, here's more. Okay, here's the other ones. Ready for this list? Yeah, I think you're gonna like this list. You mentioned our man out of B.C. sharon Stone, Rosalia Marshawn Lynch, Darrell Brick Gibson, Shout out the Brick Gibson family, Kadeem Hardison, and then a bunch of other people who are probably YouTubers.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay, look, I'm ready. I have proven I appreciate it, my willingness to watch things that you want me to watch on this show. And just so it's clear, for the record, I do not have any, like, personal animus against the show. The show premiered during my Albuquerque black hole, which it sounds like what Rue is living in. She's definitely in that in the show. And if things that happened in that, like, late 2018, 2019 zone I was in.

[B]

It looks like the season seems to be setting itself up as Rue needs to, like, basically her past catches up with her. She, at the end of season two, had gotten into some serious trouble with some drug dealers. There's a lot of Rue on the run stuff, her trying to get clean. And it just seems like that's the main thrust is like, the criminal underworld of Los Angeles coming. Coming to get what's theirs from her. Let me tell you about something else I was watching this week.

[A]

This is. If this is the new format for the podcast, it works for me.

[B]

I also just have to. I have to. I was kind of teasing Kio with this before. So this show, Tell Me Lies, is back. Yeah.

[A]

Which. Which I feel like you slipped a little bit. You didn't mention that when we were previewing the year, and I didn't mention my Tell Me Lies. Drops of God returning.

[B]

Did you. Did you check it out yet?

[A]

No, but I completely.

[B]

Okay. I forgot Drops of God was coming back too. There's a lot. There's too much television right now. Please tell me so Tell Me Lies is in its third, and it's about six people who have escaped from Arkham Asylum and go to Vassar College or some like.

[A]

That tracks with my experience of visiting Vassar College.

[B]

These are about six demons who only binge, drink and do the most fucked up shit to each other and get the most fucked up shit done to them. It's about these coeds in the. So the framing device for the show is that it's. There's a wedding in 2015 between two of these characters.

[A]

This is the framing for this season.

[B]

Or the whole show? The show itself. So there's like, kind of like a little bit of a mystery element to it. Where there's this wedding that's happening. You're at the wedding in 2015.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But then the flashbacks are happening in 2009, I believe. 2008. 2009. At some place that seems like Bard or Vassar.

[A]

The present day is 2015.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is there a lot of chatter about, like, what Bill Simmons will do next? Like, is that how we know. That's right. Is that how we know what year it is? That's right.

[B]

I can't believe he spoke truth to power about Ray Race.

[A]

I'm just wondering.

[B]

No. Okay. So I'm just setting it up and there's these six people, six characters in this college. And there's all this like, oh, my God. This car accident. Oh, my God. This overdose or whatever. There's a lot of, like, trauma. But the main thrust of the show is this central relationship between a character named Steven and a character named Lucy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Steven is Hannibal Lecter. Like, he is the most evil person of all time. And I'm gonna tell you something that he does in the third season just to get your reaction because this is fun. Without giving too much away about our youth, I think you'll get it. Okay, so one night at a college bard. This is a spoiler for something that happens in the first three episodes.

[A]

And these are the same actors playing themselves with a six year difference.

[B]

There are juniors and seniors in College in the 2009.

[A]

You can do that between 22 and 28.

[B]

Yeah. There's nothing where you're like, what the f? This guy Steven, he's out with his girlfriend Lucy. Their friends Evan, Bree, Pippa, Wrigley, they're hanging out.

[A]

These are some white folks.

[B]

No, there's. Okay. And they are at a college bar, they're drinking, and they decide they're gonna do Molly, they're gonna do mdma because there's a girl named Molly there who is on.

[A]

Molly. Oh, that's cute.

[B]

And she's like, freak. She's having a great time. And they're like, we should do this. So they go and buy drugs from a grad student who also turns out to be Breeze old foster home brother.

[A]

Oh, boy.

[B]

Yeah, there's a ton of stuff going on there.

[A]

But high achieving household, though his whole.

[B]

Reason for living is to psychologically terrorize Lucy. It's just like.

[A]

But they're dating.

[B]

Yeah, on and off. Like they've cheated on each other. He's with this girl Diana for a while, but they're like, they more or less. His job is psychological warfare.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They all buy Ecstasy. They're all gonna do it. Steven fucking pockets his.

[A]

No.

[B]

Just as everybody takes their. Their. Their pills, he goes like, oh, yeah. And he puts it in his pocket. So the whole night, Lucy's having this great night.

[A]

Oh, boy.

[B]

Steven's kind of like, hawking her. He's. Every time she's dancing with her friends, he's like. He kind of like gets in the middle. Finally, they go home and she's rolling and he's like, let's just have, like, radical honesty with each other. Let's be real honest with each other.

[A]

No.

[B]

And he's like, tell me every fucked up thing you've ever done to me. And she's just like, what are you talking about? He's like, you know, and like, they keep going through it, and he's basically trying to get her to admit that she slept with a friend of his when they were on a break. But here's the fucking fucked up thing that he does.

[A]

Is he continuing the charade? Is he, like, drinking lots of water and pretending he likes Sasha and Digweed Records? Like, what is he doing?

[B]

He actually. If I were her, okay, I would be like, I don't think that you are feeling it, okay? Like, he is never exhibiting, like, an incredible amount of warmth or, you know, emotional transparency. But she's just like, I feel so great right now. I'm so high. Whatever. They keep going with this conversation. He doesn't get what he wants. And he's just like, all right, well, I'm gonna go to sleep.

[A]

Well, that's the giveaway.

[B]

And she's just like, what are you talking about? I'm so high right now. Like, what are you saying? You cannot abandon me.

[A]

This.

[B]

And he's like, I'm just tired. I'm going to bed. And it is like, it is the most fucked up thing I've ever seen.

[A]

Now, are you offended for the lies or just the moral party foul of that?

[B]

Both.

[A]

Yeah, both.

[B]

And things he does in the first three episodes of the third season will dwarf this in terms of, like, how he should be brought up in front of the ha. But this is the greatest crime I've ever. Like, to string somebody along while they're rolling on ecstasy and then just be like, I'm going to bed, leaving her to be blown out of her mind on this stuff and is just like, I'm sitting in this dorm room in Poughkeepsie. What am I supposed to do with.

[A]

Myself with all of his good energy?

[B]

But you know how the energy can go bad.

[A]

It can Go bad in a hurry, you know? Yeah. Wow.

[B]

So that was. That was fun.

[A]

What a monster.

[B]

I would describe that as a show that my wife and I are trying to watch between the hour of 10 and 11pm you're right. And it is having an adverse effect on my sleep cycle.

[A]

Because of all the drugs you're ingesting.

[B]

Yes. We're also taking. We're rolling the whole time.

[A]

And classic Phoebe's like, well, good night. And you're like, no, you are not committing to the bit in the same way that if you watch Top Chef, you get hungry. Yeah.

[B]

You know, so sorry, I guess I should have said spoilers.

[A]

Are you watching the show? Are you up on this?

[B]

I'm only halfway through the first season.

[A]

Of the show, but I'm. You just spoiled it. That's fine.

[B]

I think I have a good attitude about spoilers.

[A]

I think I could see where it's going too.

[B]

This is not shocking.

[A]

What is his. Is he just like staring at her during this?

[B]

Is he like where he doesn't make direct eye contact a lot? So he'll be like, you have to do this. You have to do this. And it's like it's. He's. It, It's. It's an effective show.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

It's like the darkest soap I think I've ever watched. In some ways.

[A]

I.

[B]

But I don't even mean to demean it by calling it a soap. And it's. It's actually, it's. I think it's pretty good.

[A]

I will say my top 10. I. I will say. And I, in the, you know, in the spirit of. Of radical honesty and transparency, I have never.

[B]

You've been on ecstasy this entire podcast last week.

[A]

I have never pocketed drugs and allowed other people to go on a journey, but I have been guilty of. Let's get one more. Good night.

[B]

You do that.

[A]

You do that. I know, I know. I feel like it's a little barbed and we should just like put it on the table.

[B]

When we were in London for Thirsty Thursday, you were pretty good that night, actually.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It was just. Me and Phoebe were like, we're about to light this candle. And you were just like, I'm gonna go to sleep.

[A]

I misunderstood. I think we had a fun. First of all, I just think that when we were all out in London, there was just a misunderstanding of the night's program. You know what I mean? Like, I thought it was a one act play.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you were like, no, no. This is Tom Stoppard's coast of Utopia. And we will be exploring the history of Russian socialism until dawn. That was the only difference. I think we parted as friends. But you just.

[B]

I thought you wind up eating like a ham bagel at a football bar.

[A]

That felt vaguely anti Semitic.

[B]

No, I swear to God. Well, you know, I know you read this book, so it's probably on top of your mind.

[A]

It just brought me back.

[B]

I hope that was educational for people. I just wanted to share what's happening on tv.

[A]

It's wild what's happening on tv. Because when you. I do appreciate it also in a servicey way. Because when you're like, what channel is that show on?

[B]

Hulu?

[A]

I really thought that it was like, oh, it's like summary turn pretty. And I was like, I bet my kids are gonna start watching this one soon. And now I know what to specifically block yes.

[B]

On their devices if they're ever like, I'm into Grace Van Patten. I want to watch Tell me Lies. Be like, you have to wait 22 years before you can watch that.

[A]

At least. Yes, at least talk to Uncle Chris.

[B]

One of the problems that I've been having this week is the multi episode release that's happening for a bunch of seasons that are either returning or what. So we're gonna hit the first episode of Hijacked, the first episode of Night.

[A]

Manager and there's multiple Night Managers up, which I did not get to three.

[B]

I've watched like one and a half.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I did not get to ponies, so I'll have to do. You'll have. That'll be your Tell Me Lies.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then obviously we can talk about the pit now if you'd like to.

[A]

Did I mention to you that I watch ponies early to be prepared for this pod? Yeah. Did that come up?

[B]

You did. You did. But I also have like a mental excel sheet of what you haven't watched. You know what I mean? And where I'm like, I know you have the trailer. I know you have that screener. You could, you could knock this out. But you didn't.

[A]

First of all, I don't always have the screeners these days. They. They go for you. They know who's persuadable. Yeah. You know what I mean? They got real reticent over the last decade.

[B]

Old Gene Shallet here.

[A]

You know, I loved content in every relationship. There's a Sydney Sweeney and a Jacob Elordi. You know what I mean? That's all I'm saying. It's just the natural way of things.

[B]

This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. Like an expert coach, TaxAct offers step by step guidance and guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes. Get tips along the way. Add Expert Assist to talk to tax experts and let our experts do your taxes for you. With Expert full service, TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details. Jumpstart your January goals at Whole Foods Market. They have hundreds of yellow sale tags for feel good savings across the store. Explore sales on sustainable wild caught sockeye salmon filets, organic boneless chicken breasts and many more quality finds to support your wellness journey. In fact, Whole Foods Market is the only certified organic national groceries shop. Whole Foods Market with so many ways to save all month long. Terms apply. Would you want to do our new shows first or the Pit first?

[A]

Kai, as our producer, do you think we should run through new shows first? I think that makes sense.

[B]

Yeah. Let's do that. Let's save the Pit. Because honestly, with the Pit, it's more a play by play of people getting their shoulders reattached.

[A]

So sure thing. Let's talk Hijack first then. And then we'll talk to Spy Shots.

[B]

Hijack is a show that Andy and I were delighted by in its first season. I think it really knew the assignment. Yes, Idris Elba is one of the most compulsively watchable actors we have. He completely understood that he was entering his Liam Neeson era. I have to admit, I almost found the 10 year gap in Night Manager.

[A]

I was going to make the same.

[B]

Point to be less confusing than the way that Hijack season two started. Which is not to say that I didn't enjoy myself, but I was just like, truly, what the fuck is happening?

[A]

Not just that, and I appreciate you saying this. I think that as we sundown, it's nice to do it together because I genuinely have no memory of this show or of the Night Manager. And I did. I can't tell yet because I've only watched one season two episode.

[B]

I have a conspiracy theory about this.

[A]

I'm ready to hear it, but I can't tell yet if it was genius or troubling that the quite long previously on Hijack left me more confused because I kind of hoped and maybe this is a sign that it doesn't matter. Which again, I'm kind of into. But I thought that the previously on Hijack wouldn't really just be about this is Sam Nelson. Once he was on a hijacked plane and it was kind of sick. I thought it would be like, ah, here's the real conspiracy behind the spate of hijackings targeting Idris Elba, leading me into the larger plot points of season two. That was not the case. That was not the case of the trailer.

[B]

Well, it just seems like a lot has transpired in between the two seasons that is yet to be revealed on season two.

[A]

We don't really know where we're meeting, which is acceptable.

[B]

My. My relationship to Hijack is not much different than my relationship to speed the movie because I was just like, here's a cool character who's real good at negotiating whatever, you know, and the whole thing is just like his bad luck. He's going to be on a train that gets hijacked. And I was very much here for it.

[A]

Yes, I agree.

[B]

I agree with you that the reminders of the Europe wide criminal conspiracy of. I don't. I can't remember what those guys do. I honestly thought all of those dudes kind of offed each other at the end of season one.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I'm starting to worry that streamers are making their follow up seasons so complicated and so delayed that they are forcing people to rewatch things, thus spending more time on platforms.

[A]

Oh, it's interesting conspiracy theory because Hijack immediately launched to the top of the Apple charts.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure. Look, I will also just say one thing with this, is that the twist at the end of the first episode of Hijack is revealed in the trailer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you are essentially sitting there for 44 minutes to achieve what they already told you was going to happen.

[A]

It was quite apparent. I thought. I didn't feel particularly well.

[B]

His behavior is quite odd.

[A]

It is.

[B]

You know, he's such a warm man usually. And usually if you get buttonholed by someone on a German subway, you would definitely give them a job immediately.

[A]

Funny story about the German subway. I just.

[B]

We got to give Effinger's corner here. How are you gonna connect it?

[A]

I'm just saying it was remarkable. And I was just thinking of how poor Lottie Effinger would think about her beloved Berlin, seeing how transformed it is, but also about the preponderance of English.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know, Yeah.

[B]

I do find that. I think that English is. Is permeated a lot.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

Yeah. Way more than like when I was like, like first in Europe in the late 90s and it was like, once you got out of London, you're on your own, do you? Not London, but like, once you got out of England and Ireland.

[A]

And our listeners who have traveled to do, honestly, the last remaining bastion of Western democracy recently could tell us, like on the U. Bond. Do they just lead with English announcements at this point or do they do both, but. Cause they seem to only showcase the English announcements on the show. I broadly think that Hijack was at its best when it was, oh, sick. Idris Elba is on this plane that's getting hijacked. And there was a freedom to that. And I don't really care too much about the larger conspiracy. And I find it quite opaque, in.

[B]

Fact, leading into this one episode. I'm sure they will hold our hand and bring us into this. Marth from Dark, our beloved Dark on Netflix.

[A]

You could say Martha, We're American.

[B]

She plays the. Who's the actor?

[A]

Lisa Vicari. I was very happy to see her.

[B]

She plays the, I don't know, train control center operator.

[A]

Yeah, she's the. There's a taking of Pelham123 vibe where that she's like. And again, I respect the show when it plays the hits like, she's leaving. She does night shift. And her colleague is like, can you.

[B]

Stay for another hour?

[A]

Can you stay for an hour? Nothing ever happens on that train line. We're like, oh, damn, here we go again.

[B]

And so now we'll find out more about this. But there is two or three other subplots. Nelson, Sam Nelson, Idris Elba's character. And I guess I should just say, obviously spoilers for all of this, but, like, if you've seen the trailer, you'll know that this particular hijacking is perpetrated by Sam, at least initially, and that it looks like he is under the same pressures that some other characters in the first season were, where it's like, you can't trust anybody because this criminal organization is blackmailed everyone on the plane and it seems like maybe on the train as well. So I don't know really what the whole guy with the backpack thing was about in the first episode.

[A]

Well, it appeared to be a misdirect for everyone because Sam, we know is vigilant. We know that he is not really a keep to himself kind of guy. He helps people on the escalator early on. You know, he helps the guy with the stroller. So we know that he's kind of. He likes to mix it up. He likes to get involved. So it is not entirely out of character for him to notice a man with a backpack and profile him basically, and be like, this is sketchy. And it's revealed at the end of the episode that he did that solely to get the cops off the train.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

That's right. So kudos to Sam. Also, his wife is still in the mix, but is now.

[B]

This is one of the subplots.

[A]

There's a sad anniversary. Has something happened to their son? Has something happened to their marriage? We don't know.

[B]

Well, then it's his ex wife.

[A]

Yes. He was ex in the first season, but they shared a son.

[B]

Did the boyfriend who was hanging around that house, did he get got in the first season?

[A]

No, I think he was just like, who is your ex husband anyway? And they were working together on the.

[B]

Ground, running around and like he was.

[A]

Running the fields and that mom went into traffic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you want me to recount other things that were in the. Previously on that I remember she's there.

[B]

She'S in a cabin. She's like trying to get away from it all. And then there's a whole thing happening at the British Embassy with someone who's interviewing or talking to somebody at the Justice Department of Germany. They get. They have one of those. And they do have one.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I'm saying they got one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

About. About this criminal organization. So a lot of stuff yet to happen and a lot of build up to get to this twist at the end of the episode that everybody already knew, which is that Sam is now. He is. He is the captain now. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I have to say I was not particularly optimistic after this first episode.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I found the look of it in the subways a little dark and claustrophobic.

[B]

Is that what you thought?

[A]

I did.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I did. I just didn't find. And I thought the cleverness of the twist was too heavily. They were too heavily invested in that. Like that it was all. The entire shape of the episode was built towards. Aha.

[B]

It's 40 minutes to get 30 seconds.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm willing to see what happens next. I do know it and I don't know anything about truly nothing about the backstory or the creation of the show. It just appeared in our lives like two years ago at a time. We were quite ready for it.

[B]

Yeah. I think it was a gear shift. It was a nice tonal like, it was a nice like digestif.

[A]

It was fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a way that. Because it felt free of heavy backstory or heavy intention or ambition. Honestly. Outside of the desire to entertain in an old school way, which I appreciate. The show was created by George Kay and Jim Field Smith. It appears that George Kay is no longer involved in the show.

[B]

I don't know if he's gone on to other stuff.

[A]

Yeah, he's the writer. So the director, Jim Fieldsmith, has returned, and at least for the first episode, Guy Bolton has written this episode. So again, I'm not saying that one man was the real captain of hijack. It is just a different, different. It's a different operation.

[B]

This is also probably a case where this would have made an incredible movie. You know, like, hijack would have been an incredible movie. It was cool to spend six hours doing it, but you could have done it in two. And creating a crew, you know, like, basically the lattice work of the. The world building that they have to do now might take a little bit of labor. I also don't find subways nearly as, like, terrifying as being stuck in an airplane.

[A]

That one kid was not doing well.

[B]

He shouldn't have got on subway. Should have had self determination.

[A]

You think? Yeah. Wow.

[B]

He could have just been like, I, you know, I have an allergy to subways.

[A]

Well, he could have walked to Unter den Linden, which is one of the classic old boulevards of Berlin. You know, culturally, it's changed over time, but it is still.

[B]

You know, it's funny that you mention the look of hijack, because I think in my mind, Night Manager had been this deeply lush, exotic, beautifully shot show. And I found myself really bumping against some of the visual stuff in the second season. The first episode of the second season, really, it just felt like it looked like Jack Ryan to me.

[A]

Well, it's an Amazon show now.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I mean, I would say the first season again, 10 years ago, very unclear how much of it I watched. And I'm not bragging, like, I'm a little concerned.

[B]

So you remember, like, Elizabeth DeBecky is on it.

[A]

Yes. And I remembered that much like Burn Notice was a show about sunglasses. Night Manager season one was a show about linen shirts.

[B]

Yeah, for some of it.

[A]

Yeah. For quite a bit of it, yeah. So you felt all right? I don't. Are we pivoting? Are we talking night Manager?

[B]

I think we can. I mean, did you have other hijack notes you wanted to share?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Do you feel committed to seeing Sam's project through?

[B]

I think I'm down for another episode, but it's like. Like we said, it's an incredibly busy time, so.

[A]

No. So it might not make the cut. I did not have an issue with the direction, although I think Suzanne Beer directed the first series. She's a very talented director. Georgie Banks Davies has done really good work. I hate Susie. I love Susie. What's the name of that show?

[B]

I Hate Susie.

[A]

Yeah, she's done the second season for me. It wasn't even the visuals, I think. And I do want to talk about the show in tandem with Ponies in a minute, but we'll just talk about it specifically to begin with. With. This is a very tricky thing because Night Manager is adapted from the John Lecrae novel. And in fact, I didn't remember this at all. But the great man himself, David Cornwell, appeared in the series because he was still alive there.

[B]

He did, yes.

[A]

He just did a little cameo at a restaurant. But it was kind of.

[B]

Is it Michael Caine at the end of Dark Knight Rises Nod.

[A]

Feel free to continue this without me, boys.

[B]

The.

[A]

It was, you know, an exemplar of this project by John Le Carre's sons to take the IP and the legacy and spin it into this new era.

[B]

Which is a project that is still ongoing.

[A]

Very much so.

[B]

Including, we discussed the Spy who Came in from the Cold and like. That would be the start of like a series of Smiley.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And just last year there was the book that his son Nick wrote. He wrote a John Lecrae novel, basically a new Smiley novel. So they are continuing the family brand. But making a second season of this is uncharted territory because there was no sequel to the book.

[B]

And there is going to be a third season.

[A]

Right. When Amazon picked it up from. I think it was an AMC co production originally it was picked up for two seasons. And I think what you're saying about the show visually is just generally what I felt about the show in general, which is this is not. It's not just you're not your father's John Le Carre. It's not just. Not our John Le Carre. I don't think it's really John Le Carre because everything is so hyper sexy, hyper literal and just kind of clunky, you know. And I want you because you have spent more time in the La Carre verse than I have. You've read more of the books and you care. I think you are more invested in the project largely than I'm even. Than I might be. But it did not have any of the great man's signature wit.

[B]

Yeah, visually or I think that tonally. One thing that I associate with Le Carre, I'm sure people who have also read his books might fight me on this is a degree of detachment from the action that is happening.

[A]

This is more of we should catch people up, too. I'm sorry I jumped past the specifics of what, but go ahead, ahead, finish.

[B]

Your thoughts of the show itself. Yeah, well, I, I, I'll, I'll try and explain that by saying, you know, in Tinker Tailor, Soldier Spy, there's very little quote, unquote, action in the traditional sense. I mean, there's, there's a shooting, there's a, a border crossing, but there's really, it's more about following people, reading about people, searching for people, and understanding the.

[A]

Ultimate flaw of people.

[B]

Yeah. And when people describe them as like Cold War novels, I think that it downplays the fact that it's about people in rooms making decisions in an intellectual, a battle of, like, wit and will and not really about moving nuclear weapons off one coast or another or showdowns or anything like that. And so to have a protagonist in. He's calling himself Alex in this season of the show, but is Jonathan in the first season. Tom Hiddleston's character, who we were introduced to as a night manager at a hotel in Cairo in the first season, who is reluctantly pulled into the world of espionage by Olivia Colman's Angela character and Hugh Laurie's Richard character. Richard Roper.

[A]

Richard Roper does sound like the guy who replaced Siskel, doesn't it?

[B]

Is it Richard Roper?

[A]

I believe it's Richard Roper.

[B]

In any case, it is. The introduction to him in the second season is way closer to Super Spy. And I don't care what you tell me, I must get to the truth. And we have to set up an operation, even though that's not what you people do. And it just kind of feels a little bit more honestly like the Krasinski iteration of Jack Ryan in that show.

[A]

This is a successfully executed contemporary thriller series for all the good that entails. And I thought it looked pretty good. I think the cast is remarkable and we'll talk about that in a second. It hit familiar notes and we like those notes. We like the song, that's fine. But I think looking at it through the lens of Lucari kind of bummed me out because what I like about those books is the, that, as you said, the context is really the framing for deeply interesting and universally relevant psychological explorations of what it means to be a person in a morally complex universe. This is a show where a new character is introduced as being the true disciple of Thanos. I mean, Richard Roper. Right. Where the big discovery is a series of printed no, is a downloaded JPEGs in which someone has with a Sharpie circled people and written important questions about who they might be next to them. That is not particularly complex spycraft. It's also having a hard time, like a lot of spy shows are updating for the modern world. One of the fun things about the Le Carre spycraft, Cold War spycraft that we love is a world of personal relationships and dead drops and, you know, analog spycraft. Analog spycraft.

[B]

This is a lot of surveillance and a lot of like, well, we have a microphone that can listen across the.

[A]

Park and we have. His job is no longer. He is a night manager now for all of London's night, where he has access to CCTV cameras seemingly everywhere to follow all bad guys. Which, you know, not to bring it up again, but one of the reasons why I think we were shouting out Oliver Harris's spy novels last fall is because he seems to be. To me, he is the true disciple of John Le Carre in the sense that he's like, okay, in a world where you can do deepfakes of everyone and you can have a fire hose of all data, what does it mean to be a spy? Whereas this is just like, we're still doing it in the kind of politest version of the past, but now we have microphones that can record anything and you can clean up dog barking to hear people confess their crimes. That was kind of a bummer to me. And also just like the natural drift in contemporary television to be like, well, it's gonna end with a big fucking explosion. Yeah.

[B]

So the season seems like it's going to center around Colombia and legal arms shipments to Colombia, which I didn't remember.

[A]

Apparently, the Latin America played a bigger role in the book, the Night Manager, and that was transposed to the Middle East. So in a way, they are reclaiming some of the original.

[B]

That's smart adaptation. And I will also say Diego Calva, quite good in Babylon. Haven't seen him since then in anything that I remember and has definitely an edge to him in this second season. So I think as the show maybe centers him a little bit more, it'll get on track. Camilla Morrone's also really good, and she was fantastic in Daisy Jones and the Six, and she is in this season. So I will say this. I didn't love the first episode. It was just good enough that I will probably watch all of it.

[A]

The reason I appreciate your honesty. The reason I want to talk about it in Companionship to Ponies, which is the Peacock show that premiered this week, which is also a. Which actually is a cold War spy thriller, a little bit more comic. It's created by David Iserson and Susannah Fogel, who've worked together before on. I forget there was the comedy spy movie that they made. This is a world that they are fans of and that they like quite a bit. It stars Emilia Clarke from Game of Thrones and Haley Lou Richardson, who people know best, probably from White Lotus Season 2, as ponies. Persons of no interest. They are the spouses of CIA, American CIA operatives in Moscow in the 1970s. I will speak specifically to that show in a second. But watching these two shows in tandem in a week that they were both released really reminded me of something that is, you know, I think, front of mind for a lot of Americans these days. Wealth inequality. It is a very, very strange moment in television when if you subscribe to multiple services, these all come through the same tube, but they could not be.

[B]

More different in terms of, like, their.

[A]

In terms of their budget and in terms of their execution. I think I liked Ponies more than Night Manager. I'm not completely sold on it yet, but like you, I will like to watch more to see how it develops. I like the originality of the idea. I like the slightly unconventional comedy spin of the show and the different way into more established genre terrain. But the Night Manager looks like a billion bucks. The Night Manager is filming on location in London and in Colombia. The Night Manager has a cast that goes so deep that you can have Olivia Colman and Noah. Are we saying Jupe or Jupe? I've never actually said his name out loud.

[B]

I think it's Jupe. Indira Varma's in the.

[A]

Indira Varma up and down. The cast list is incredibly impressive. And when you. Kirby, Howell, Baptiste, like, when you see. When you see these people show up in these supporting roles, like Kirby as Tom Hiddleston's therapist, it elevates the floor of the experience and I think provides like a patina of class and prestige to something that it might not otherwise get. I have no. I intend no disrespect or slightly to the hardworking cast and crew of Ponies, which filmed on location in Budapest, which does a pretty credible job, I think, having been. Having not actually been to 1970s Moscow.

[B]

But Budapest, which recently was Washington D.C. for death by Lightning.

[A]

So, yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And where the tax breaks remain phenomenal, from what I understand. The cast list is Emilia Clarke, Haley Lou Richardson, and then Adrian Lester, who's a great veteran British actor of stage and screen, who. Who basically is a. That guy from Primary Colors, which was his first movie up to like you have seen him.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And he's great in this as well as he always is to. That's basically it. Now, I'm not diminishing the contributions of the other actors in the show, many of whom might become stars.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But they aren't. And you feel it. And I do think that that affects our engagement with stuff sometimes. You know, like it's telling us what it is and what it can be and it feels like it comes with a bit of a. Of a ceiling. Now, I don't want. I didn't want to lead with that aspect of the conversation because I don't want to discourage people from watching it.

[B]

It's worth having a talk about though, because I haven't watched Ponies yet. I will check it out. I thought what your critique or your observation was very interesting because we've gotten this preponderance of espionage shows. There's clearly a huge growing audience for these series. I think that there's lots of different ways to execute them. It seems like the Night Manager is leaning into the globetrotting international man of mystery side of things. There's also, and we talked about this when Andor was on this show that's on Amazon prime now, but it's from the early 1980s called Sandbaggers. And Sandbaggers is largely shot. It was a British TV show about UK spies and it was largely shot on sound stages that you can tell are sound stages. And it looks like faulty towers. I mean, it looks like a 1980s British TV show. And yet the writing is at a level that the. It exudes verisimilitude, even if it doesn't go to the far flung places that these agents are being sent routinely. You can have, you can do a show that doesn't have a lot of money at its disposal and you can think of really creative ways to kind of color in and the outside of the lines that are shown on the TV show and give people a sense like, I think that we underestimate contemporary viewers ability to imagine what has just happened without showing us kind of a fake CGI version of it. I don't know what it is about Ponies that looks cheaper.

[A]

It doesn't. Well, I mean, you, you, you'll watch it and report back. I think that. I'm not saying that Ponies would be improved by access to the same budget as Night Manager. I'm saying it was an interesting exercise to watch them both in roughly the same time period and track my reactions to them. Now, I do think Again, not speaking to the specific development path of either of these projects because I don't know them. But one of the challenges of this era, I think, is, you know, beautiful ideas springing from the minds of writers and producers. They are free, they are unfettered, they are fully realized when they exist only on the page and then they are taken to market and they are offered to, you know, the dwindling number of buyers left in this town. The version of that beautiful idea that is ultimately, you know, dreams come true and it is executed on Paramount plus is different than if it is executed on AMC or on Starz. Sure, that isn't new information, but as all of these people are still at least pretending to compete with each other, when in fact they actually can't, the arms race has been decided and Apple, Amazon and Netflix won. With HBO still trying to punch above its weight here or just ultimately becoming Netflix at this point point, it's tricky and I think that if I could speak from personal. I try not to do this too often, but when I think about my experience running briarpatch, the biggest mistake that I. There were many, but the biggest mistake.

[B]

That I think, just so we are clear, this is before you read Effinger's.

[A]

I would have reimagined the entire piece as a decades long exploration of a single Jewish family. Yeah. Yes. Okay, so that's mistake 1A. But mistake 1B for sure was inexperience in terms of I had wonderful development partners and network partners who were encouraging me to think big, make the biggest show you can. And one of the big thoughts that I had was a certain episode would be an all out military assault on a mansion on a compound in. Fictionally it was Albuquerque, but it was in Texas. And I loved the fun we were having writing an action movie for that episode. And it actually took way too long for the rubber to meet the road of. We actually have the same budget as like not even like suits of like Royal Pains, you know, like Blue Skies era stuff. And I worked with a brilliant crew who did their best, but it starts getting chipped away like. Well, instead of like a whole crew of people, you know, like trying to climb a wall with grappling hooks. What if we just built one 3 foot wall and put one guy over it? Yeah. And you're like, okay, the whole episode would have been better if it had been written from the perspective of the people inside the house while things are exploding. Yes. So it's a play, not a blockbuster film. That's the kind of decision Making that has to happen at the beginning. And I think that that would have resulted in a better episode of television than if you have like, we're gonna make the most mind expanding globetrotting spy series, but we're gonna have to do it on this soundstage in Budapest. Now. Ponies doesn't deserve this to be in its logline or its review from this podcast. It is vibrant, it is fun, it is irreverent, and it is not trying to be Jack Ryan. And I respect the hell out of that. And once the premise of the pilot is dispatched with which is these two mismatched women, both suffer a loss and then decide to solve the crime themselves within the COVID of the State Department and the CIA. And there's a guy playing George Bush who, who was the head of the CIA in the 70s. So it's a little winking, a little tongue in cheek, you're off to the races. And I'm really curious to see the people behind this show, see what story they want to tell with it. Yes, it's a premise pilot through and through, so it's not a fair argument for that. But one thing that we all have to think about in this industry, including executives, is like it's all being shoved into the same trough and how are we receiving it?

[B]

I'll give you another example of kind of what you're talking about is the upcoming Night of the Seven Kingdoms on HBO coming this Sunday, which there's a big George R.R. martin interview in Holly Reporter today where he speaks about his frankly, the non existent relationship that he has with Ryan Condal who's running House of the Dragon. And he talks a little bit about the development process of Seven Kingdoms and how HBO came to him looking for something that wouldn't cost $20 million an episode to make. And I'm not going to give away anything about the series or about the episodes other than the same. I think this show is fantastic and I love it. And it's largely set in a field, one like sort of discreet area. And it's rather than go wide, they go deep, which is, you know, for as many locations as I think early Thrones had, it was still more about what was happening in front of the camera and not the sort of scope of the camera. Yeah. And obviously that show is always going to have to grapple with dragons and armies and you know, but it didn't start there. It didn't start there. I think there's a lot to, to be learned from this and I think there's. It's It's a good lesson to think about these things in a. From a creative standpoint rather than a restrictive budgetary standpoint and be like, okay, like. Like, realistically, what can we do here that is not gonna, like, go fully into the red, but is the best thing for this show given how much money we have to spend on it? Because I think, honestly, those restrictions, I would rather see something that felt like a little bit like you're saying, like, you'd rather have the assault taking place from the perspective of the people being assaulted inside the house and do a lot of stuff with sound and light, maybe then not get the military assault that you kind of were hoping for.

[A]

You can tell, like, you know, there's a reason why Taylor Sheridan has access to all the actual, like, Blackhawk helicopters. Not currently. Yeah.

[B]

But I mean, it sounds like. It sounds like Paramount's asking him to bring the budget down too, you know, And I think that I'm very curious to see the next season of Lioness and to see how many helicopter assaults they have.

[A]

Well, I don't think they need them because the real battleground in America is on college campuses. And at least Taylor has reminded us of that. But, yeah, it's also this larger point that I was trying to articulate is also a reason why. And I'm 100% realize that I'm the guy in the hot dog suit wondering, who's telling you to do this? It is worth watching past the pilot of a lot of these shows because pilots are created in one iteration of a creative existence, and often series are written in another.

[B]

Well, that's why I think I'm gonna continue with both Night Manager and Hijack to see if those first episodes felt like they were doing a lot of, like, remember last season? Or this show's different now. You better get ready. So I'm excited for checking out the next episodes, and I will check out Pon. Um, let's check. Talk about a show that we have far fewer reservations about.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which is the Pit. This was the 8am hour, and my wife asked me this. Did we ask Casey boys when he was last on this show whether the Pit was going to continue to be as gross as it has been in the past?

[A]

So no.

[B]

Did he talk about this?

[A]

What was interesting?

[B]

She's like, I thought Casey Bloys said that this show wouldn't be so fucking gross.

[A]

First of all, it sounds like she did not want this particular visit to the bone temple.

[B]

It was actually the arm that bothered her.

[A]

No, there was a bone there too.

[B]

And the maggots.

[A]

I see. So you. The boner Temple was okay.

[B]

Honestly, she was like, this is pretty funny. It was more the other stuff.

[A]

Let's talk about that. We, again, couldn't be us. But sometimes I do think that we become quite entranced with our own narratives. And. Okay, let me rephrase. I often become very enamored of my own narratives. And like Paul Effinger, just blindly trusting in the good faith of the German people, he just figured they would work it out and surely he would be able to keep the factory. Even as the National Socialists rose to power in the 1930s. I multiple times last year just pulled out the old chestnut of, you know, we misunderstood the pits project. That we thought with our crude lizard brains that it would really just be like, er, but NC17 er. And it would be more gnarly. Cause that's what they can do on HBO and cliffhangers.

[B]

But you could start next one.

[A]

And it did that. But in my memory of the first season, the quiet heroism of the characters and the depth of the characters themselves just quickly became the story. And while there were occasional detours into grosser parts of the anatomy, like, it really was building a different sort of show and it didn't need that. And I think we were both like, ah, the parlor tricks of early. The pit can be disposed of. That was not the case with this episode. So I guess it was maybe a necessary corrective that it was going to continue its commitment to both. Yeah, this did feel more extreme than previous. The last few run of episodes. Going back to the previous season, I.

[B]

Will say that I have found there to be a heightened sense of humor in this season.

[A]

There has been more banter. Like, there's been actually more space for the characters to go bang, bang, bang. A little extra joke on top.

[B]

Dana warns off Robbie's new girlfriend.

[A]

Seems like.

[B]

It seems like it. And she's like, I'm a big girl. And then Dana's like, okay, big girl. Like, they're just. They're like, they know now Dana's a thing. And we're gonna give Dana, like, a couple of lines per episode that are like, oh, yeah, that's mother.

[A]

The dude suffering from priapism, I believe was the term, says that, you know, he says, well, you know, it was a special night with my wife. And he says, is this a big one?

[B]

Right?

[A]

I mean, the anniversary, right? Yeah, there's a little more room for that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Before whatever the pit fest that happens this season emerges.

[B]

Well, they are certainly signaling that. And I Admire our show for being like, we can talk about. We've just been talking about industry in this fashion. Like a show that's like, we have this frame, but, like, a lot of different things can come in and clearly, like, they're setting up. Dr. Al Hashimi as somebody who's trying to modernize and digitize the emergency room.

[A]

It's the classic, classic clash between just AI and your gut.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

These machines know better.

[B]

It's come up a couple of times. Instinct and gut versus having our computer overlords take over and accidentally prescribe the wrong medication.

[A]

It is how. It's actually an interesting capsule of, like, how we approach this podcast.

[B]

Well, and the trailer suggests that this season will feature a computer blackout, which I think will test.

[A]

You've really been studying the trailers. I thought this is. Usually you're like, I'm good. I don't need the trailers.

[B]

I guess I just saw a pit trailer.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I mean, I don't know what to tell you.

[A]

Okay. You just seem to know a lot more than I do, so.

[B]

Yeah. I found this season to be funny far. I think that the story device of this is Robbie's last day for a while is good because it kind of gives his character a little bit of senioritis. Not that he's taking any time off of the intensity of his work, but that he is kind of like, yes, you can follow me. And maybe you guys just settle this among yourselves. What do you think of the new recruits as they get more and more screen time?

[A]

I just want one last note about the visual stuff.

[B]

Oh, yeah, sure.

[A]

I have never been as certain of anything in my many, many years on this earth as I was that there would be maggots under that cast.

[B]

Well, they. I mean, whatever it was going to be, I was like, it can't be.

[A]

Mice again after your experience in Roxbury in 1998.

[B]

No, because the guy had rats in his overcoat last year.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So I was like, they got to up the ante here.

[A]

Yeah. I didn't know. Did you see that? That's. That guy. That's Skinny Pete from Breaking Bad.

[B]

I didn't know that.

[A]

It's really, like, quite a bookended career. I would say he's doing great.

[B]

I wonder if he's gonna be hanging out for a while then.

[A]

Seems like it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The new recruits.

[B]

And it's also the guy from House of Cards who's like, yes, that's who that is. I'm going to be your Stephen Miller, right?

[A]

Yes. And then he's the one who is seemingly resetting a little bit every time.

[B]

Every time they talk to him. He's got a new personality. Something's going to open this noggin.

[A]

Yeah, well, the new people.

[B]

Ogilvy.

[A]

I didn't. Did you track that this was ogilvy's character in 201. This idea that he is a super.

[B]

Brain, but I think it's supposed to be like over the course of the day, the guy gets cockier and cockier.

[A]

Well, the prescription is fine.

[B]

I don't know what's going on with Joy and why she's like looking at her phone and kind of grossed out by medicine and.

[A]

Well, that reminds me of my children. So that is not actually that.

[B]

Yeah, but I don't want your children operating on me.

[A]

Fair. I feel like Ogilvy's got a prescription for some comeuppance heading his way. Yeah. I think that the show is a remarkably well oiled machine at this point. And just the accumulating pleasures of ongoing year to year TV are just so apparent and so rich in the show. Even without Mel sticking her hand into a man's open arm socket. Just the little moments where.

[B]

God, that was fucking gross.

[A]

Cause like. But where are you with the show? Like, she puts her. They are using like a pulley system.

[B]

To yank a gut to put his shoulder back in. Which seems again, because it's hanging out of his skin, basically.

[A]

That would be. I mean, you used to do a pretty mean Dr. House imitation in the early 2000s. Like that seems to make sense to me. Like, put it back in.

[B]

I. I was raised on Lethal Weapon with Mel Gibson slamming his shoulder against the wall to put it back in.

[A]

This is really important. When people wonder why our generation is the way it is. You have to understand that our relationships to bone dislocation was very, very, very different. Very different and very wrong. It was, it came up.

[B]

We grew up in the, in the era of guys getting shot by Uzis in the arm and being like, it's just a flesh wound, I can keep going.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, but that, like the entire plot of Lethal Weapon 2. I mean, sure, yes. Was it, Was it about apartheid? Yes. Yeah. But was it really all dependent on Riggs's ability to both dislocate and relocate.

[B]

His arm like Lethal Weapon 2?

[A]

I think he, he thinks that movie has clear heroes and it is not the mismatch set of cops that you've come to know and love. Do you think that there is a Lethal Weapon too? Afrikaner. Cut. That's a little bit different.

[B]

I mean, Elon Musk's father watches Grok to make it. Yeah.

[A]

But he does have diplomatic immunity. And thus the movie ends. It's great. No notes. I mean, we're not far off from a recut of, like, the first Star wars trilogy where it's like Darth Vader just like doing the Dougie on the Republic. You know what I mean? And everyone's like, that guy had some really good points.

[B]

Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

[A]

I think where we went was much better. Oh, no, just that when they were doing that scene and then Robbie's like, well, there's something else we could do. Mel, put your entire hand into the cavity. It is usually protecting his bones.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I am now at a place where I thought that Mel's hand was in danger. Not that this would work.

[B]

I was worried about that, too. But they're not going to take Mel out of the rotation, you know, I.

[A]

Mean, they almost did. She had head trauma.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And what's going to happen with that?

[B]

I hope that guy comes back the liquor store robber, because.

[A]

Are you shipping them?

[B]

I don't do that. I don't do that with. With characters on the Pit.

[A]

It was mean. Like, he seemed like he took a real interest in her. There was.

[B]

We got about. About. I would say I've got about another hour or two of Al Hasimi being like, diametrically opposed to Robbie in every situation before. I'm going to need some, like, you guys need to talk about this. Or there's. See, this is the thing that's cool about the Pit is no one ever has time to talk about anything. They're always like, I have another patient. So these conversations and these character conflicts are drawn out because they're happening in 15 second increments. And it actually makes dramatic sense within the Pit rather than like on some other random Netflix show where somebody's like, I'm gonna leave this room. Because that would make it more interesting that we haven't resolved this. But, like, on the Pit, they actually do have to go somewhere else.

[A]

I will also say that, you know, if we've learned anything about how this show is made and like the medical boot camp that the actors are put through and how they have to work, it is a different type of acting and there were different opportunities to provide emotional exposition for your character that people who are on season one are reaping the benefits of now, like, Santos relationship to this child who appears, has been abused is like. Is riveting. But Also tonally consistent with the character that we saw emerge over season one. And that's great for the actor and it's great for the audience as well. I would say that, like, the Alhashimi thing has been tough because she is introduced as a blunt instrument to be not Robbie, to be the opposite, to be the AI side of it. And Sepide Moafi is a really good actor who I'm excited to have on the show, but hasn't really had a lot of opportunity until that moment when Ogilvy speaks. Perfect Farsi to be more than that. So I imagine. And we also have to remember that, like, it's not just the visceral stuff and the visually extreme stuff that was a hallmark of season one. Every so often, they would dim the lights and all the nurses would say, actually, in America, nurses are underpaid. It would become clunky in a way that was.

[B]

They've shed some of that stuff.

[A]

But it's still in the DNA of the show, and that's okay, especially considering where it's building to.

[B]

The show's still great, obviously. And, you know, it's just these first two have been. I think I felt in the second episode what you felt in the first one, which was, I'm waiting for something insane to happen. And that didn't happen until, like, episode five or six last season.

[A]

I would just say that my experience watching the second episode in a week when I was also doing my homework and watching these other programs that we're talking about was so markedly different.

[B]

Because you're like, this shit is so good.

[A]

This is so good. And this is on a rhythm that isn't. Because, like, what are we? Like, Disney is going to start integrating vertical videos into it. Like, everyone is still trying to quibi this shit up and be like, how can we capture the flickering attention span of men who have basically given their lives over to British pub reviews on Instagram? Couldn't be us. But.

[B]

I can never tell whether you're dressing me or talking about yourself.

[A]

That's the beauty of us. Which one is which? It's kind of both of us. This show hits. It just. It is entertaining and it's fulfilling, and I enjoy the experience of watching it so much more than even pilots that I admire. Just because of which maybe not. It's. Maybe not a fair comparison, because this show is just absolutely clicking in its second season, but there it is. It's still not broke, and they have still managed to perfect it. Last thing. Yeah, I. I really did feel a little bit I, I, I, I was shook. Not by the body, the shoulder cavity, shoulder trauma of that one man, but the guy who was choking on broccoli, because that could be me, dog.

[B]

Do you eat a lot of broccoli?

[A]

I eat a lot.

[B]

And you don't chew.

[A]

I, I love broccoli.

[B]

I mean, that, that was a fully unchewed piece of broccoli.

[A]

A floret, as we say. Yeah, yeah, I think, I think, I mean, broccoli is not good raw. I fuck your crudite platter. I'm sorry, that's.

[B]

I don't like broccoli raw. I roast.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. You got to cook it. Yeah. Like, crudite platters are a lie. Can we put this at the top? Let's clip this. What do you like? Crudite platter gets put out.

[B]

I got to be completely honest. Like, if, if I'm going to have a dip, I'm going to have a chip.

[A]

Yeah, you should.

[B]

Or.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't mind a carrot. I don't mind a carrot.

[A]

Carrot is a good vehicle.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Celery. If you're wired that way. Okay, that's fine. But then you see these people, and they put out these little bowls of, like, raw broccoli, raw cauliflower and cherry tomatoes. Get out of here. Nobody wants this. This is not what we are meant to do.

[B]

I hope I'm not letting you down by not meeting your anger. I actually just completely agree with you.

[A]

This is good podcasting.

[B]

It's like, do you ever have that, you know what I mean, where you're just like, I'm in total agreement.

[A]

Yeah, often. Often. I mean, my algorithm is just providing me with content.

[B]

So much positive feedback.

[A]

Oh, no, those are the comments. Not that. Not that.

[B]

We can wrap it up.

[A]

You think?

[B]

Any other pit notes? You asked me about a casting decision.

[A]

Oh, I was just curious about. I forget the name of the woman, the social worker from season one. Kiara. Kiara.

[B]

She's not there.

[A]

She's not there today. Which is another incredible thing that the show can do. If they want to move on from cast or if cast isn't available, they'll be like, oh, she doesn't work Tuesdays.

[B]

She comes in later today.

[A]

Just elite.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was curious about the guy that they brought in as a social worker.

[B]

Yeah, he.

[A]

He kind of has Bonaduce vibes.

[B]

Well, he also has. I. I actually do this for a living, and they've brought me in that show.

[A]

My take.

[B]

Not to take away from his acting, which is fine, but I couldn't. But I was almost like, is this actually, like, a therapist?

[A]

That is a million percent what I thought.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I would love to know the answer to it because it's available any. I don't have that Verizon blackout dog. I don't know. Sorry.

[B]

Did you get blacked out yesterday?

[A]

No, I'm not a. Phoebe did.

[B]

She was really mad.

[A]

Did she think that this was a dry run for shutting down the country?

[B]

I did not share that theory with her.

[A]

You know why I know that's nonsense.

[B]

Because you had Verizon and you were looking at Twitter all day.

[A]

No, because they do that in countries where people didn't vote for that. You know what I mean? This was all pretty predictable. So they're not shutting it down. Yeah. I'm curious if that guy is, like a real social worker or why. Because his.

[B]

Yeah, but they haven't addressed. Dr. Collins took me a little bit out. Absence. They haven't addressed.

[A]

I don't think they're good. She's still on do not disturb mode. I don't think they're going to address it.

[B]

They will probably mention it at some point.

[A]

I don't. Do you want. Do you want a little. Put a little poly market on that?

[B]

I still don't understand how that works on it either.

[A]

I think it's bad for the world.

[B]

Thanks to Kaeya. Thanks to Ka. Thanks to you, Kaeya.

[A]

Do you think. Do you lean in as you can feel us rounding third to be like, it's probably going to get weird here and we can harvest something. Yeah. That's where I got the Eagles clip from.

[B]

That's right. That was Eagles After Dark. Do you want to do any Eagles After Dark before we go?

[A]

No, because I think SHIELD's like, there goes a whole episode for Philly special. Like, I feel like we should save it for.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Also, not much has happened.

[B]

We are going to be here on Monday, if that's okay with you. Because Lay a Man concludes its second.

[A]

Season saying that first. I don't think that's the reason.

[B]

I'm just putting it there because it is the last episode of Lay A.

[A]

Man and what better way to mark Martin Luther King Day?

[B]

So you would rather have spent two months talking about it and then not address the finale?

[A]

I think that my reasoning for doing a show on a federal holiday is that industry season. Episode 2 and Night of the Seven Kingdoms.

[B]

Sorry. I just want to give the people what they want and the people want.

[A]

To spend their vacation.

[B]

Hearing me, it's not a vacation. It's a day off. It's just one day.

[A]

I can make a vacation out of it. I won't now because I gotta go to Texas.

[B]

Okay. Landman Industry Episode 2 Night of the Seven Kings Episode 1 thanks to Kaya. Thanks to Kai. Thanks to you.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Shout out the effingers.

[A]

That's a ding for Chris.

[B]

See you guys Monday.