The Watch – ‘The Lowdown’ Is That Show. Plus, ‘Heat 2’ Hype Meter and ‘House of Guinness.’

Date: October 9, 2025
Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald (The Ringer)

Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Chris Ryan (broadcasting from Philadelphia) and Andy Greenwald (reporting in from London) dive deep into how hype, critical acclaim, and audience engagement cross between TV and film in 2025. They break down why movies like "Heat 2" are surrounded by fever-pitch buzz, while outstanding shows like FX’s “The Lowdown” fly under the radar. Later, they discuss their impressions of Netflix’s "House of Guinness"—Stephen Knight's latest historical drama. The duo bring their signature blend of pop culture expertise, personal anecdotes, and podcast banter.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Hype Cycles: Movies vs. TV

• Chris describes his experience at a live podcast taping in NYC, where "movie fever" is at maximum with surprise screenings and contagious word of mouth (05:00). This leads to questions about why TV, even in its best moments, doesn’t generate the same level of public “frenzy.”
  • Quote: “We are moving into award season with movies, but we are definitely in a state of peak hype... Why doesn't TV have this kind of hype around it?” – Chris (06:10)
• Andy theorizes Netflix’s role as the only TV platform that can create “wide release” type phenomenon today (“Baby Reindeer,” "Adolescents"), while most TV trends toward slow builds and retention over week-to-week releases (07:42).
• They ponder whether the disconnect is meaningful: “Maybe it’s this weird thing where hype is disconnected from the actual success of the film... I have no idea what [The Lowdown]’s doing. I have no idea what that would mean.” – Chris (10:45)

2. The ‘Heat 2’ News and Hype Meter (16:47–22:49)

• Chris and Andy process the massive development that Michael Mann’s “Heat 2” is now set at Amazon/MGM, with Jerry Bruckheimer, Scott Stuber, and potentially Leonardo DiCaprio attached (playing the Val Kilmer role, not Neil).
  • Quote: “All of this is contingent on DiCaprio’s participation, and DiCaprio has a pretty full dance card.” – Chris (21:47)
• Chris recaps the wild book-turned-film structure: “It’s a novelization… of a prequel and a sequel to Heat… That’s just like Stop the Watch when I introduced you as doing that.” (18:34)
• Both hosts express both anticipation and nerves:
  • Quote: “I want this to be good. I don’t want this to be a strange kind of inadvertent roast of Heat… I’m just nervous for it to be like two years of waiting and then people be like, ‘Oh, that was all right.’” – Chris (19:50)
  • Quote: “That’s how I felt about Twin Peaks: The Return, and that worked out for me.” – Andy (19:59)

3. TV’s Place in the Prestige Pop Culture Conversation (07:42–15:55)

• Andy ties the fragmented TV hype landscape to the “multiple timelines” idea: “We are all in a Damon Lindelof show right now because we are all existing in multiple timelines at the same time.” (12:39)
• TV’s measurement of “success” is compared to movies: it’s less about opening week and more about building slow, steady retention.
• They lament that, unlike movies, streaming platforms withhold viewership data and flatten the perception of both flops and hits.
  • Quote: “On the flip side… you’re not aware of failure either. I’m not aware that this ‘flopped.’ I wouldn’t even know.” – Chris (15:55)
• The complexity of success and failure: Smashing Machine bombs at box office but is still a “win” for The Rock as a serious actor; A24’s ambition brings risk and changing definitions of failure. (16:45)

Segment Breakdown and Major Timestamps

• Opening Banter & London Stories (00:36–04:00)
• Movie Hype Season & “Heat 2” News (04:00–22:49)
• TV ‘Hype’ vs. Movie ‘Hype’ (07:42–15:55)
• Paramount’s New Bidding War Era & “Discretion” (23:07–26:45)
• AMC, The Nicole Kidman Show, TV Industry Jokes (26:09–28:18)
• Transition to Main Reviews: “The Lowdown” & “House of Guinness” (28:19 onward)

Deep Dive Review: “The Lowdown” Episodes 3 & 4

A Novelistic, Idiosyncratic Marvel (29:18–44:27)

• Chris praises episode four (“Short on Cowboys”) for its structure—a triple-opening, magical realism narration, and a self-contained, “Before Hangover”-esque tequila-fueled detour with Ethan Hawke and Gene Tripplehorn.
  • Quote: “This episode four… kind of starts three times. You know, it’s got this sort of fantastical Tim Blake Nelson narration… [Then] a lazy, awesome 10 minute scene at a diner… then it really gets going...” – Chris (29:21)
• Andy delivers a persuasive “campaign speech” for the show:
  • Quote: “I want all of you to watch The Lowdown… This is what we are always talking about. It is absolutely idiosyncratic. It is unique, it is funny, it is heartfelt, it is stakesy, it is exciting, it is surprising.” (32:13)
• Emphasizes Sterling Harjo’s singular vision and how the show echoes the best parts of “Twin Peaks” (both structurally and in specific references—the narration, Kyle MacLachlan’s performance).
  • Quote: “There are moments where I’m like, oh, obviously Sterling likes Twin Peaks… but it’s not fucking pastiche.” – Andy (33:49)
• Performance praise: Ethan Hawke is singled out for delivering “both a movie star Paul Newman performance and a freak, used bookstore guy performance.” (36:12)
• The “novel” comparison: Andy points out “The Lowdown” dares the viewer to hang out and embrace its pace—loitering in the best sense (41:42). Chris notes: “This show is loitering. It’s just fucking hanging out. And you may have to adjust your brain a little bit…” (41:42)
• The beauty of TV that doesn’t feel required to “do” anything or answer the audience’s demands:
  • Quote: “It’s such a privilege to watch a show that absolutely didn’t have to do anything except just march to the beat of its own twangy drummer.” – Andy (53:57)
• They wrap this segment by urging listeners not just to watch, but to support ambitious, risk-taking TV for its artistic value, regardless of commercial fate.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “If you listen to this podcast…I want all of you to…watch The Lowdown…” – Andy, rallying support for the show (32:13)
• “It gives actors great opportunities to…bring joy…an all-star team of those guys doing elite work.” – Andy (32:25)
• “This is among Ethan Hawke’s best performances… he has to do so much in every scene.” – Chris (36:12)

Quick Take: “House of Guinness” (44:27–53:25)

• Overview: Netflix’s “House of Guinness” is described as Stephen Knight’s take on a Succession-style drama, centered on the Guinness family and their brewing empire during early-20th-century Ireland—a tumultuous period of revolution and temperance movements.
• Critical Tone:
  • The crew discusses the show's “rock and roll history” gloss, constant character/scene changes, needle drops, and stylized presentation—sometimes feeling like “a pitch deck for the show” (49:07).
  • Andy finds its “British TV export” aesthetic serviceable, but not gripping: “It seems like a mass market export product right now, like Guinness itself. And I’m just not vibing with it.” (52:18)
  • They note solid performances (Anthony Boyle, James Norton), but feel the show’s hyperactive style (scene changes every 37 seconds) contrasts starkly with “The Lowdown’s” willingness to loiter and embrace challenging narrative pacing.
• Notable Quotes:
  • “House of Guinness is… Stephen Knight’s Succession, you know, okay, effort.” – Chris (44:49)
  • “It’s a very noisy, noisy, noisy show.” – Andy (48:36)

Memorable Quotes & Banter

• On the TV hype question:
  “All of which is to say—I’m excited to see Marty Supreme, and I’m really hype off of it because literally, because of Sean’s tweet…but that’s no guarantee that it’s going to be successful.” – Andy (10:41)

• On “Heat 2” Adaptation:
  “This is the one seed, man. This is…an undefeated team going into the tournament.” – Chris (21:00)

• On The Lowdown’s vibe:
  “This show is loitering. This show is just fucking hanging out.” – Chris (41:42)

• On wishing they could reboot AMC:
  “It’s that kind of middle of the road thinking that’s going to get us to the top, I think.” – Chris (27:51)

Final Takeaways

• “The Lowdown” is a rare, ambitious gem—novelistic, idiosyncratic, and rewarding for viewers willing to adjust to its pace and style.
• The current hype cycle strongly favors movies, with TV both lacking and not needing quite the same fever-pitch buzz. Slow-burn success and retention over time is TV’s real metric, not flash-in-the-pan online discourse.
• “Heat 2” is a go—with huge names attached, but the weight of expectations and risk is palpable.
• “House of Guinness” provides splashy, energetic period TV, but suffers some from a slick “export product” sheen and a hyperactive, sometimes unfocused execution.
• The episode closes with a call to value and champion TV that dares to be different, encourages participation outside the hype cycle, and celebrates creative bravery.

For Listeners Who Missed It:

Whether you’re curious about “The Lowdown,” skeptical about “House of Guinness,” or just want to ride the “Heat 2” hype, this episode delivers sharp insights, passionate recommendations, and authentic pop culture commentary—vintage Andy & Chris.