‘The Pitt’ Season 2 Finale, ‘Top Chef’ S23E6, and ‘Bandi’

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Watch – ‘The Pitt’ Season 2 Finale, ‘Top Chef’ S23E6, and ‘Bandi’

Hosts: Andy Greenwald & Chris Ryan (The Ringer)
Date: April 17, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Andy and Chris reconnect after some travel and dive into three centerpiece topics: the explosive Season 2 finale of the acclaimed hospital drama The Pitt, thoughts on Episode 6 of Top Chef Season 23, and first impressions of Netflix’s new French crime saga Bandi (from The Bureau’s creator Eric Rochant). The conversation is energetic, opinionated, and brimming with their trademark mix of critical analysis, pop culture references, and dry wit.

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General Banter & Industry News

01:35-16:00

• Chris and Andy catch up after travel, trade banter about Denver’s Illuminati horse and the idiosyncrasies of American airports and Costcos.
• They introduce the episode’s topics: The Pitt S2 finale, Top Chef S23E6, and Bandi, noting Rochant’s surprise drop on Netflix.
• Brief mentions:
  • Upcoming reviews for Margo’s Got Money Problems and the French adaptation of Beef (Boeuf)—which Chris notes is "being panned" by critics.
  • “Do you still take critical consensus as a directional for you?” – Chris [04:26]
  • Andy: “No. I do that with NFL draft coverage, but I do not do that with TV anymore.” [04:33]
• Industry tidbits: Reactions to Cinemacon news (Dune 3, Thomas Crown Affair remake), White Lotus S4 taking place during the Cannes Film Festival, and debates about U.S. vs. European production budgets.
• Literary side-trails: Lena Dunham’s Fame Sick, Andy’s love for NYRB Classics, and gentle ribbing over book sponsorships.

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Bandi (Netflix) – First Impressions

21:38-30:07

Introduction & Context

• Eric Rochant (The Bureau) co-created Bandi with his daughter Capucine—set in Martinique, it's positioned as a French answer to Top Boy or Peaky Blinders: “A sprawling crime drama, intergenerational, one family moving through a cityscape.” —Chris [22:19]

Key Points

• World-Building & Setting:
  • “Anytime Netflix’s budget and cameras go to a place that we don’t spend a lot of time, the show looks beautiful…taking us in backstreets and bars and just bringing a place to life.” – Andy [24:04]
• Casting & Structure:
  • Combination of professional and nonprofessional actors, focusing on the Lafleur family (11 kids, central character is Kiki/Milord).
  • Show leans traditional, introduces crime genre archetypes (“…if you’ve watched Power or Top Boy…” – Chris [25:30]).
• Pacing & Comparisons:
  • “It really does a yeoman-like job of setting the groundwork… I didn’t feel energized and exhilarated at the end… There’s not a lot of wit or surprise or verve, but a lot of solid story building and promising leads.” – Andy [25:30]
  • Chris draws a parallel to early The Bureau: “If you watch the first episode…you might say it’s a lot like spy shows I’ve seen before—obviously [it] changed.” [25:56]
• Industry Insight:
  • Rochant’s exploration of the shifting nature of international crime drama vs. his earlier espionage work.
  • Modern storytelling critiqued: “We are increasingly unused to seeing pilots that don’t have to make the case for themselves within 50 minutes.” – Andy [26:41]
• Observational Detail:
  • Praise for authentic integration of modern tech: “The fact that all characters have cell phones is a part of the story in a way that doesn’t feel intrusive.” – Andy [29:18]

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The Pitt Season 2 Finale – Deep Dive

30:55-62:08

Structural Overview

• Both hosts loved the finale, though Chris felt it “reiterated some of the stuff it’s been saying for the last three weeks rather than breaking new ground” [30:58].
• The season centers on Robbie’s “Dark Night of the Soul,” foregrounding internal struggle over external carnage.

Robbie’s Arc: Darkness, Purpose, and Endings

32:13-39:56

• His emotional trajectory: wrestling with possible suicidal ideation, meaning in his work, and the immense personal toll of ER medicine.
• Memorable quote:
  • “Every good thing he’s ever done for the world is in the hospital.” – Andy, summarizing Robbie’s stance [32:21]
• The show, bold in “conditioning us for something similar and then having that not really be the case… The Long Night of the Soul is really internal.” – Andy [33:15]

Interpersonal & Ensemble Dynamics

35:43-38:12

• Dr. Al Hashimi’s storyline (her secret epilepsy, readiness for leadership) adds tension; confrontation with Robbie labeled as pivotal:
  • “She says, you’re making this all about you… The show’s right on the line of giving us enough of other people’s opinions about Robbie…” – Chris [37:07]
• The finale highlights show’s balancing act between Robbie-centric POV and ensemble perspective.

Pivotal Action Setpiece: Emergency C-section

39:56-43:30

• Electrifying setpiece: the entire ED mobilizing for wilderness birth gone catastrophically wrong.
• “It was a masterpiece of technique…I forgot to breathe for two and a half minutes.” – Chris [41:48]

Loss, Survival, and Catastrophe

43:40-45:56

• Not everyone survives, but the day “could have been worse”—deaths and losses keep the world authentic.
• Show’s handling of “catastrophe versus marginal wins/losses” deepens attachment to the ED’s daily reality.

Ending Ambiguities & Expectations for S3

46:49-62:08

• Some characters (Mohan, Al Hashimi, Whitaker, Santos, McKay) receive “buttons” or foreshadowed departures (e.g., Mohan’s subtle final scene).
• Praise for the technical realism: “As a show, they’re showing you what they can do in miniature as well as what they’ve done in the past with chaos.” – Andy [43:20]
• Karaoke Stinger: Chris is chagrined he missed the post-credits karaoke scene ("You clearly turned off the show too fast." – Andy [52:02])
• Strong suggestion S3 will feature a shorter time jump and an expanded “night shift” focus, possibly making Abbott and Ellis more central.
• “This show is just heaving for a night shift [spinoff]… When Abbott leads his crew in a bespoke chant saying they are nightcrawlers.” – Andy [60:13]
• Both hosts express deep affection for the show and its developing “monoculture” status.

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Top Chef S23E6 – Recap & Reality TV Meta-Talk

63:53-71:47

Elimination Challenge Drama

• The hosts dissect a high-stakes whole-hog team challenge, zeroing in on Seeger’s captainship and complex team dynamics.
• “Seeger loses. I wouldn't say lost, like, entirely gracefully. He seems a little bit like, see you fucking soon, dog.” – Chris [64:50]

Last Chance Kitchen Confusion

• Last Chance Kitchen segment was unusually opaque, possibly due to unexpected chef dropouts or production twists.
• “Tom is like, basically like, I can’t explain what’s going on, but we don't have a challenger for Rhoda today.” – Chris [65:19]
• Theorizing possible explanations: Jen dropping out, or Seeger refusing to participate—Andy recalls the only previous precedent.

Reality TV & Character Editing

• Seeger possibly receiving a “villain edit”: “Whether it's the edit or just the guy himself, Seeger was incredibly unlikable over these last two weeks...” – Andy [67:02]
• Insights into reality competition production: timing of filming, blackout periods, and engineered chaos.

Closing Thoughts

• Praise for Top Chef's sophistication: “It doesn’t really go for soap operatic... they've generally been uninterested in that…to its credit.” – Andy [67:05]
• Andy and Chris marvel at the stamina required for both ER surgeries and overnight hog roasts—and wax nostalgic about amateur medicine days (“Chris’s hot towel remedies”).

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Sports Minute and After Dark Banter

71:47-end

• Chris and Andy wrap up with Philly sports talk (Sixers, Phillies), good-natured barbs about fandom engagement, and reflections on being a sports fan battered by disappointment.
• Lighthearted references to their history of exchanging draft content and the futility of sports predictions.
• Conclude with upcoming podcast topics (Euphoria S3, Margo’s Got Money Problems, Boeuf) and jokes about TV review skepticism.

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Notable Quotes & Moments by Timestamp

• On Bandi’s genre:
  “...a effort on his part to make something in the Top Boy, Peaky Blinders, Netflix genre...” – Chris [22:19]
• Character focus in The Pitt:
  “If you watch the show under the impression that it is somehow an ensemble piece, I advise you to take a look at the series season posters for 1 and 2, both of which are pretty much one man’s face.” – Andy [33:02]
• On what’s remarkable in the finale:
  “It is a bold gambit to build a season this way—having educated us on one season about the craziest, most violent day in the history… then kind of have that not really be the case.” – Andy [33:13]
• Emergency C-section scene:
  “It was a masterpiece of technique…I forgot to breathe for two and a half minutes.” – Chris [41:48]
• On Top Chef reality production:
  “I think in times it has been like this person walked out of an elimination and into Last Chance Kitchen… I’ve also heard that there have been seasons in which they shoot LCK over a course of like two days closer to the end of production.” – Andy [68:28]
• Reality TV meta:
  “Whether it’s the edit or just the guy himself, Seeger was incredibly unlikable over these last two weeks.” – Andy [67:02]
• Missed karaoke stinger on The Pitt:
  “You clearly turned off the show too fast… they sing ‘You Oughta Know’… that’s how the season ends.” – Andy [52:08]
• On the show’s cultural resonance:
  “It’s close to the feeling of one of those monocultural shows that we know and love where I feel like—anticipation for the moment that I’m gonna turn it on and excitement to talk about it afterwards…” – Chris [61:42]

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Final Takeaways

• The Pitt delivers a finale that privileges emotional realism over soap-operatic drama, doubling down on its main character’s interior struggle.
• Bandi is a promising, atmospheric but not-yet-dazzling addition to the international crime genre; worth keeping tabs on, especially for fans of The Bureau.
• Top Chef continues to set the standard for reality competition, navigating occasional production snafus with grace.
• Sports analogies reign, quirky references abound, and the hosts maintain their approachable, droll tone throughout.
• Stay through the end credits—both in TV and podcasts—for the hidden gems.

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For Next Time: Chris and Andy will cover the new French Beef, Euphoria S3, and Margo’s Got Money Problems—as well as possibly more news from the worlds of sports, publishing, and beyond.

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Transcript

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[Chris Ryan]

This episode is brought to you by Brooks. Running connects us to a rush of energy that flows through our world. The cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us. The intersection of interests that inspires a run crew, the support that gets you over the finish line. Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there. Learn [e-mail]. I need support staff to clear the room.

[Andy Greenwald]

Stand up and walk now.

[Chris Ryan]

Hello and welcome to the Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] and joining me in the studio now, his day shift has ended. It's Andy Greenwald.

[Andy Greenwald]

How are you?

[Chris Ryan]

Good, brother. It's been a minute.

[Andy Greenwald]

You're back.

[Chris Ryan]

I am back. Yeah. I was in San Francisco. I was in Denver. I've seen in the West.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. What do you think?

[Chris Ryan]

We're all doing great.

[Andy Greenwald]

Whoa. This is breaking news.

[Chris Ryan]

Socially, economically, everything is solid.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. Good. Air travel, I've heard was good.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, honestly, it wasn't that bad.

[Andy Greenwald]

They.

[Chris Ryan]

They're keeping it together everywhere. Denver Airport did not see any Illuminati there. It's supposedly the headquarters.

[Andy Greenwald]

Were you doing your research for Paradise Season 3?

[Chris Ryan]

I was, I was.

[Andy Greenwald]

Did you see the horse?

[Chris Ryan]

The horse?

[Andy Greenwald]

The demon horse outside of the airport?

[Chris Ryan]

No. That's the thing is, like, none of this, like, it's all I noted about the Denver airport is I think it could be closer Denver. Because in between Denver and the airport, it's just like a lot of Costcos. I didn't see much that was like, well, can't have a plane land here, right? But, yeah, other than that, Denver, lovely place.

[Andy Greenwald]

This is your note. Go. You go to the CEO of Costco and Tell him he has to move his five outlets.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think the Costco has been there for like 120 years. You know what I mean? Like, it seemed like a pretty new build.

[Andy Greenwald]

You don't think it's a landmark? No.

[Chris Ryan]

It's wonderful to see you. I haven't seen you in a while.

[Andy Greenwald]

I know I've changed.

[Chris Ryan]

How have you changed?

[Andy Greenwald]

You're going to find out over the course of this hour.

[Chris Ryan]

I have some news and stuff for you, like, from the television and entertainment world, but I wanted to just kind of fill you out.

[Andy Greenwald]

Did you say what we're going to do? We're going to do.

[Chris Ryan]

Hey, we're going to do the pit finale, obviously. Welcome to where that happens. And also we're going to talk about Top Chef. We're also going to talk about an out of nowhere appearance of a new series from Eric Rochant, who is responsible for one of our favorite TV shows of all time. Yes, the Bureau. The Bureau, the French spy drama. He has a new show on Netflix. I had no fair. No fair warning. No, no. Heads up. Just saw it, that it was trending on Netflix, that it was in the top 10 that. I checked our email inbox. There were a couple of like, dude, is there a new show from Eric Rant. I did a little bit of digging into this. It's an interesting story, but we can get to that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Bandy.

[Chris Ryan]

It's called Bandy. It's on Netflix.

[Andy Greenwald]

And, and we should also say at the top, we are going to cover two buzzed about new series on Monday,

[Chris Ryan]

which are Margo's got Money Problems and Boeuf.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's the French adaptation of Beef.

[Chris Ryan]

Can I tell you? Yeah, Beef's getting. Beef's getting grilled.

[Andy Greenwald]

That sounds delicious.

[Chris Ryan]

The critics do not. Do not like beef.

[Andy Greenwald]

They really. Yeah, it was aged too long. I.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I mean, there's some diversity of opinion, but. And that's what this country is all about. You know, you learned that in your travels of the west, but it's largely being disliked, being panned.

[Andy Greenwald]

Wow.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Huh.

[Chris Ryan]

How do you feel about that? Do you still take critical. Critical consensus as like a directional for you?

[Andy Greenwald]

No, I do that with NFL draft coverage, but I do not do that.

[Chris Ryan]

I was going to ask you about this.

[Andy Greenwald]

We could save that for After Dark if you want.

[Chris Ryan]

I have a lot. Okay, let's save it for After Dark.

[Andy Greenwald]

I have a lot of draft thoughts.

[Chris Ryan]

My big television headline, obviously, Cinemacon this week. So there's a lot of movie news. I have mixed feelings about Cinemacon I'm very happy that Shawn and Amanda are there. I'm honestly a little bit jealous.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know if I'd want to be in Vegas for four days. But it is cool that they get to see stuff. On the other hand.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know if I want to digest movies that like, here's a sneak seven minutes of the Odyssey. See you in three months.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, there's also. Is there any world in which you are shown the first 10 minutes of apparently the Saving Private Ryan esque opening of Dune 3 and you're like, it's kind of mid. Like it's. It's designed or to make people insane.

[Chris Ryan]

That being like now I'll see it. Okay, you guys got me. You know, so I, I think out of my feeling of inadequacy of not being there.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm also like, it's not for me. I wouldn't do it anyway if they. Even if they invited me.

[Andy Greenwald]

I invented that move.

[Chris Ryan]

But there's, you know, obviously a bunch of stuff coming out of it. Dune 3 the Odyssey screen. Some stuff sounds like it went very well. I saw that. The Thomas Crown Affair. Some footage from that was played. The Michael B. Jordan remake of that

[Andy Greenwald]

starring your Maxima, Adrian Ariona.

[Chris Ryan]

Which is not Maxima. I think it's Wonder Woman. It sounds like it's going to be Wonder Woman.

[Andy Greenwald]

Van is going to comment being like, get off my corner again. But I'm pretty sure

[Chris Ryan]

I was thinking I have to go to New York soon.

[Andy Greenwald]

You are just a man.

[Chris Ryan]

And I was thinking of seeing Jean Grey AKA cdc.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

In Romeo and Juliet.

[Andy Greenwald]

I thought she was in London. I think that's in London.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought it was in Broadway.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, we'll find out when I show up at that really reasonably priced theater and I'm like, one ticket for Romeo and Juliet, please.

[Andy Greenwald]

Maybe you could watch it. You know they have that thing in some cities where they have like the, like the, the camera that's on in another city and you like see. Maybe they could do that for the.

[Chris Ryan]

But for like really expensive Broadway tickets.

[Andy Greenwald]

If you just peer into it. You could watch Paddington the Musical. Yes. Somewhere in South Central.

[Chris Ryan]

And then I'll go to London to watch Thal on dog day.

[Andy Greenwald]

Might improve it.

[Chris Ryan]

I have one or two TV oriented news bits for you, but did you want to say anything about the Cinemacon news?

[Andy Greenwald]

Do you have any advance Again, based on nothing that we've seen but that apparently they did screen a trailer or some footage of Tom Cruise's return To Capitol A.

[Chris Ryan]

My only advanced knowledge about it is what Sean tweeted, right?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. Is this. Is this like the second screen experience where you want people to go to

[Chris Ryan]

Twitter to see what they just like? I like. Sean's tweet kind of said it all. It was like, it seems like Tom Cruise is playing Jerry Jones, the Dallas Cowboys owner, in a movie directed by Michael Bay. And I was like, well, that's gonna take me a couple of weeks to process it. Kind of parse. Yeah, exactly.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

There was that, and then. So I think there's like that, and then. What was the other one? Oh. For me, personally, the most exciting news is that Gareth Evans, who did the Raid movies, is directing a remake of Occult Is My Passport, which is a Japanese Yakuza crime film.

[Andy Greenwald]

Have you seen that film?

[Chris Ryan]

No. Sean said that it looked like John Woo meets, like, set in Detroit.

[Andy Greenwald]

I feel like you're going to be first in line.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm excited for that.

[Andy Greenwald]

I also have some breaking news. Yeah. Sadie Sink is currently starring at the Harold Pinter Theater on the West End in London.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

So I'd like to. I just wonder, would you like to revise your earlier comment in which you said, and I'm just paraphrasing, I have to be in New York soon to see Sadie Sink?

[Chris Ryan]

No, I have to be in New York soon, period. And while I'm there, I just didn't say while I'm there. I thought I might check in. My initial idea, we had talked about going to see Dog Day.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, I want to see Giant, too.

[Chris Ryan]

You know what? I'm not a doll guy. Everybody's like. And then Giant opens, and I'm just not a rolled doll guy, I don't think.

[Andy Greenwald]

I don't want to burst your bubble here.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm not rolled doll.

[Andy Greenwald]

Like, it's a movie about a raging anti Semite. So I don't think you should be, like, big doll guy. Can't wait to see how his legacy has been protected on stage.

[Chris Ryan]

But I just mean, like, getting under the hood, there is not. Is not in the top 100 things I want.

[Andy Greenwald]

But do you not see him? Do not see Hamlet because you're not a big Danish monarchy guy.

[Chris Ryan]

Come on, bro. It's not the same thing.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's not the same thing.

[Chris Ryan]

But not like y.

[Andy Greenwald]

But I think that there's a part of you that's worried that there's going to be a chocolate factory on stage or a couple Oompa Loompas telling you

[Chris Ryan]

half the story that crossed my mind.

[Andy Greenwald]

I know there's no giant peach.

[Chris Ryan]

What are you playing? Is it Lithgow?

[Andy Greenwald]

It's Lithgow, my colleague.

[Chris Ryan]

Your boy.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. That guy has a lot of energy. I would just say that if I had spent nine months filming a massive television show, I'd take a rest. And I'm a lot younger than him, and our friend Aya Cash is in it. Oh, that's really good.

[Chris Ryan]

That's cool.

[Andy Greenwald]

I don't know why we're doing theater advertising before we talk about it. I know.

[Chris Ryan]

I was just.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, I just really feel like there's a little more meat on the bone of you announcing to your wife and colleagues that you must travel to New York to see Sadie Sink make her Shakespeare debut.

[Chris Ryan]

Look, man, I'm just trying to figure out where you're at. So I'm throwing a lot of stuff up at the wall.

[Andy Greenwald]

You're liking where you're finding me.

[Chris Ryan]

Hey, they announced what's happening on the White Lotus this next season, and I just thought I'd mention to you season four will take place during the Cannes Film Festival.

[Andy Greenwald]

Love it.

[Chris Ryan]

I think they're going to do some shooting there. That was some of the word. Which is coming up in a couple of weeks. Yeah, they're shooting. Currently in production, I believe it did start production. And it is going to be the first season of White Lotus that takes place at two White Lotus properties.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, the White Low Tide.

[Chris Ryan]

One in Saint Tropez and one at the Croisette in Cannes. Have you ever been to the south of France?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes, I have. Thank you for asking.

[Chris Ryan]

What was your take and what year was it when you were there?

[Andy Greenwald]

My take.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

A model for Americans now.

[Chris Ryan]

There's a ceiling on how much White Lotus, like, I can talk about.

[Andy Greenwald]

Now that urbanism has fallen, the real model for how our society should live is Provence. Okay, that's my take.

[Chris Ryan]

I had this.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's very, very beautiful. And were you in Cannes?

[Chris Ryan]

Where were you?

[Andy Greenwald]

I was not in Cannes. I was.

[Chris Ryan]

Were you doing work for the British government? Why?

[Andy Greenwald]

Are you. No, I. You fly to Nice and then you do a little traveling along the coast?

[Chris Ryan]

I fly to Nice. I took a train.

[Andy Greenwald]

Wow.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, okay, Joe Biden. How was that for you?

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think it would be funny if, like, we just. All JD Vance did for the rest of his term was go to different places in the world and fuck things up by, like, trying to, like, do the opposite.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think that would be. I mean, funny is doing a lot of work there.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I don't mean wars and stuff. I mean like the Cannes Film Festival where he like came up on stage and did a talk and he's like, here's the reason why.

[Andy Greenwald]

And as vice president of the Cannes jury, he gives the Palme d' or to fucker in law.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Andy Greenwald]

I, I love that. I also, this is not really in our bailiwick, but I do love the fact that, that Mrs. Kirk had to bail out Erica Kirk of a TP. I'm. I'm more polite than you out of a, out of a Turning Point event. And her backup plan was the Vice President of the United States. Yes. So good. So good. We are doing great. I think it's a beautiful place. I think it's a great, great location for the show. And also a kind of a cool idea to tie it more firmly to something other than people's, you know, bettering themselves vacation.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think there will be any studio esque cameos?

[Andy Greenwald]

I did wonder about that. We are definitely in a golden age of shows. Suddenly all seeming to have the budget to just do a week or two in Europe.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Well, isn't that because it's cheaper to shoot there than it is to shoot?

[Andy Greenwald]

Here's a genuine.

[Chris Ryan]

Of angels.

[Andy Greenwald]

Here it is. But here's a genuine production question. Like I don't think that the studio decamped to Venice for six weeks because it was cheaper. I think they did it because they win Emmys and it's apple and they have a blank check. But I am hearing more and more of shows that just like do a little splinter unit and not like a splinter unit into, you know, San Bernardino or something. Like actually they go to London to shoot the London scenes. And I don't understand how that is in any way saving money. I think it's just spending money and flashing cash, which is. All right.

[Chris Ryan]

There's been a lot of really interesting stuff on the, in the trades this week about like I. Because I think a lot of the producers who are at Cinemacon have been asked about like, are you gonna do anything to save Los Angeles? And I don't know why I've been thinking about this much because maybe it has something to do with like this whole arclight protest that turned into a potential lawsuit that, you know, is now kind of everybody has thrown their hands up and it's just been like, looks like that's just gonna. That landmark to cinema will just stand.

[Andy Greenwald]

If that was Nithya's whole platform, she would win.

[Chris Ryan]

But there's also been a lot of talk about. Because I think some of the Networks are in pilot season, weirdly.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, are you gonna shoot this here? Are you gonna shoot this in la? Will you use the studios? And a lot of non. Like, well, we need a federal tax break and we need, you know, rebates on above the line talent. And I just don't know what happened to the game I loved, you know, Like, I don't know.

[Andy Greenwald]

How are you saying, like, they fucked

[Chris Ryan]

this up so much that they're like, well, we can't make it unless you guys pay for Johnny Galicki to, like, be in the show. You know that's his name, right?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. You're good. Was that. Is this like. This is just kind of a recycled NBA take that. That's too international for you now?

[Chris Ryan]

No, it's. But it's just like, I don't know why Scrubs is rebooting. The reboot of Scrubs shoots in Vancouver.

[Andy Greenwald]

Like, it does. Also, wild pronunciation there. You're still Vancouver, usually. Yeah, I like that. Vancouver. I think you're thinking of Van.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think he's living free in your head.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, he is.

[Andy Greenwald]

Does it really? Yeah, that's. That's pretty wild to me because I would feel like something like a re. Because the only thing anyone's spending money on, obviously, is what they believe to be safe bets.

[Chris Ryan]

Procedurals.

[Andy Greenwald]

Procedurals and reboots of sitcoms and things. And I'm not saying that Zach Braff was, like, turning down other offers to do this show, but I am saying that generally when people are asked to come back to fill a role that only they can play, they have enough clout to say, I would like a commute that doesn't involve a border crossing. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

There's also just not that big of a shortage of studio space in Hollywood right now.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes. And we are hearing, like, from, you know, anecdotally and from people that like people who are working on the lots. You can hear the wind rattling around in the empty office.

[Chris Ryan]

Johnny Carson's ghost just.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's Johnny Galecki. He's like, this will be perfect. So anyway, that's cool. I hope White Lotus doesn't do the thing that everyone is doing again. Like, it runs through this town like a virus every few years, which is like, ah, I will. I will entertain with a withering satire of the industry I am in. I think, like, we're good on that for the most part.

[Chris Ryan]

That's true, man.

[Andy Greenwald]

So I hope that the White Lotus doesn't go too far in that direction, but great cast, great setting. It'll be fine.

[Chris Ryan]

And Mike White. I wonder how being on Survivor will affect, you know, his. His production this year.

[Andy Greenwald]

You'd have to weigh in on that.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, he was. He's no longer on it, you know, on this season. I didn't know and. But he is jacked.

[Andy Greenwald]

Did I tell you that you sent me a image?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I was like, how did he do this?

[Andy Greenwald]

To be clear, it's not weird. Chris has sent me pictures of Mike White beachside for years. It's more of like an ongoing tracking.

[Chris Ryan]

Tracking?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. It's not biohacking.

[Chris Ryan]

Mike White.

[Andy Greenwald]

We cannot become Mike White, but we can recreate his torso in aggregate.

[Chris Ryan]

Christ. Good stuff. I have a question for you.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

You jump in at any point if you like. If you like. I'm taking us in different directions.

[Andy Greenwald]

Great.

[Chris Ryan]

Look me in the eye. Take. Take a sip of coffee and then. And I'm going to ask the group here as well.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Are you going to read Luna Dunham's memoir?

[Andy Greenwald]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

Fame Sick.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm not.

[Chris Ryan]

Have you been intrigued by it?

[Andy Greenwald]

Intrigued, mean voraciously. Consume all content outside of reading.

[Chris Ryan]

Why not read the memoir? Because you feel like you can get. It's like reading literary criticism where you get both. Again, the theories about it.

[Andy Greenwald]

That is a deep kicking and screaming reference and I respect it. Peter Palton. Oh, is it? Yeah, right.

[Chris Ryan]

Sorry.

[Andy Greenwald]

I just pictured Eigemon. Well, no, it's more like I am not that interested, but I am also human. Yeah, it's that kind of thing. Where are you with it?

[Chris Ryan]

I wasn't. And then I was like, I kind of would like to read about the making of Girls. It's a very specific moment in TV history. Also, just want to hear about Jemima Kirk and Zosia Mamet living together. And that apparently not going well. I obviously have read a lot of the aggregated stuff about Driver and about the making of the show. I don't know how much post Girls, Lean and Dunham I need to like, in terms of, like, her memoir.

[Andy Greenwald]

How much of the memoir is dedicated to directing the pilot of industry during the pandemic?

[Chris Ryan]

That's the problem. It's like I gotta. You don't know f industry. But then it'll probably be a lot

[Andy Greenwald]

of stuff about industries, other industries, coal, shipping. Ah, I gotta read this now. Damn it.

[Chris Ryan]

Kaya?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. Where are you, Kaya? Oh, I'm on the waitlist at my library.

[Chris Ryan]

There you go. I'm ready to go.

[Andy Greenwald]

So will you give us a report? Sure.

[Chris Ryan]

How about you? I was doing the audiobook while she drives around.

[Andy Greenwald]

Did Lena read her own audiobook?

[Chris Ryan]

I think so.

[Andy Greenwald]

It would be amazing.

[Chris Ryan]

It'd be funny if Jemima McKirk read it. She was like, wait, that's me, mate.

[Andy Greenwald]

That was your Jemima Kirk invitation from Vancouver.

[Chris Ryan]

It's Jemima Kirk.

[Andy Greenwald]

Jemima Kirk. I thought her interview with David Marchese in the Times this weekend was fascinating. And it does sound like. For as much as it sounds like she's in a healthier place. And certainly the perspective that she's bringing to this is on par with the kind of savage self surgery that she's done for much of her career. There was something in the way that she was talking about what she felt she had to do and what fame did to her and what being an artist has done to her and what it continues to do that did make me feel on a human level, because this is someone that I've met and spoken to and liked a lot of that. Maybe sometimes you should do something else or just direct or something. Like, there is this constant.

[Chris Ryan]

We never do, do we?

[Andy Greenwald]

No, look at us. We're on camera. But I found.

[Chris Ryan]

And I'm directing this.

[Andy Greenwald]

You're doing great. I did find the. Like, it just felt. Some of it felt really rough. And that is interesting to her to continue to mine. But I felt empathy more than lurid interest, I guess if I'm gonna be serious about it when I read it.

[Chris Ryan]

What are you reading instead?

[Andy Greenwald]

What am I reading instead? Yeah, I've got a great book, man. It's over there. I'm reading this book called Lives of the Saints by Nancy Lemon.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's awesome.

[Chris Ryan]

Is it new?

[Andy Greenwald]

No, it's her first book from the 80s, but she has a new book out also from New York Review of Books, called Oyster Diaries, and she's. It's one of those things where, like, Jeff Dyer writes the intro and is like, eventually, the long arm of time returns masterpieces to print. I'm like, yeah, let's go.

[Chris Ryan]

So, myrb, are you going exclusive? MYRB right now. Victor Effingers.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm negotiating with them. I would like to get an exclusive look. I have never more desperately begged for a brand endorsement. Like, I would wear that on my uniform.

[Chris Ryan]

And they are Rwanda for the Sixers.

[Andy Greenwald]

They are, yes. They are uninterested in this kind of sponsorship right now.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know why, but that's a

[Andy Greenwald]

great book so far.

[Chris Ryan]

Why would they not be interested in you? You talk about NYRB more than you talk about, like.

[Andy Greenwald]

Because I think, you know what they're, you know, What I think their point is, and I don't know this because I've never spoken to the. The great men and women of nyrb.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. New York Review of Books. If we haven't said it, I don't

[Andy Greenwald]

think they need to pay me because look at me.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah, that's the problem.

[Andy Greenwald]

Giving it away.

[Chris Ryan]

This is the problem with influencing is you have to withhold your influence until you're paid.

[Andy Greenwald]

And you know me, I'm very generous with my influence.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, one thing that I feel like we can take like the smallest amount of credit for influencing is the fact that the Bureau has got like a degree of domestic. I. Look, I'm not saying that we were ever like the dudes who brought the Bureau across the pond and were like, sirs.

[Andy Greenwald]

What we discovered that was our predecessors at the AMC network.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right.

[Andy Greenwald]

Are we ready to announce or. Not yet.

[Chris Ryan]

But Libero, obviously, Eric Rochon, spy drama from a few years ago. It's celebrating its 10th anniversary in 2025, I believe it did.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. And still just an absolute diamond of a television show that I think about all the time is currently being remade in an English language as the Agency on Paramount plus, which is a sign

[Andy Greenwald]

of a great source material where I'm enjoying watching the show again in English.

[Chris Ryan]

Absolutely. I can't wait for the second season. I think it will improve on the first. And he's got a new show on Netflix. Now. I had initially started this as. This is the problem with Netflix. They don't tell us about these things like where. Where it was, the trailer, where was the drumbeat of. From. The critically acclaimed creator of Libero did a little bit of reading into this, although it was hard to come by. And it does seem like Rashawn has had. He's got a production company called Maui and over the last couple of years has shepherded or, you know, kind of co created or co executive produced or whatever, several shows, some of which, like, there's one that's on Disney plus I and that, like, this is not like the first thing he has done, you know, since the Bureau went off the air or anything.

[Andy Greenwald]

Just to interject, like, I do think the reason we're talking about him is because it's for the same reason we talked about Pluribus in the sense that, like, when people who have created truly great art within this medium that we cover do the next thing, it's worth our attention.

[Chris Ryan]

And then, so, like I said, I got an email in our inbox about Bandy. I saw that it was the number seven and now number eight show on Netflix. I was sort of surprised that I hadn't heard about what it was. Doing a little bit of research into it. It's created by Rashant and his daughter.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, Capucine.

[Chris Ryan]

Capucine. And it is, in his own words, self consciously, a effort on his part to make something in the top boy, Peaky Blinders, Netflix genre, you know, of sprawling crime drama intergenerational, one family moving through like a cityscape. So obviously top boy set in London. Peaky Blinders set in Birmingham. This is set in Martinique and is about the Lafleur family, a rather large family in Martinique.

[Andy Greenwald]

11 kids ranging from like 6 or 7 to early 20s who are grappling

[Chris Ryan]

with a family tragedy and deciding where to go with the family in terms of the legitimacy of like their family business. There's like a central kid played. There's a central kid named Killian, I believe.

[Andy Greenwald]

Kiki.

[Chris Ryan]

Kiki, who's his like, street name is Milord. And he is getting into the drug business and finding out about like the international drug trade out of Martinique. I watched the first episode last night. You checked it out this morning. What did you think?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, I, first of all, making a TV show with your daughter. Come on, goals. That's so sweet. So I'm already all the way in.

[Chris Ryan]

What if you were like, I don't like this kind of nepotism and I won't even watch the show.

[Andy Greenwald]

What if I was like that? Do you want me to do the rest of the show in character?

[Chris Ryan]

No, but like, if it was his son, would you be like, God, I'm not so, not so into this.

[Andy Greenwald]

I did just feel my whole self go cold. Just completely lost interest. I found, well, big picture, I think, incredibly exciting. Anytime Netflix's budget and cameras go to a place that we don't spend a lot of time.

[Chris Ryan]

Absolutely.

[Andy Greenwald]

And so the show looks beautiful. It's in Martinique, a place that, that I would like to spend more time in. And it is taking us in backstreets and homes and bars and just bringing a place to life in the way that international crime fiction can do and international crime television can do. That I found really, really exciting. I think they've managed to find some really exciting charismatic actors, at least even through just one episode.

[Chris Ryan]

And many non professional actors.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. And I am intrigued. I would say that for people who are hearing all of our raves about it, I would reset expectations. Just say that one of the things about Liburo that was really, really remarkable over time Is Rashant's. Again, not unlike this is the one thing that I would compare it to. Vince Gilligan, very, very interested in minutia and bureaucracy and process. And so the show is very A to B to C to D about introducing this huge swath of characters in a place we've never been. And a lot of the potential is ahead. So it really does a yeoman like job of setting the groundwork for something that could be interesting and. But I, but I'll say, like, I didn't find this episode to be like, I didn't feel energized and exhilarated at the end of it. There's not a lot of wit or surprise or verve. What there is is a lot of solid story building and a lot of promising leads and a canvas that I

[Chris Ryan]

would like to see him sell in the first episode. If you watch a lot of like Criminal Underworld TV or even a Fair am like a lot of very familiar meets, you know, a lot of like one brother who is going one direction and another brother who's going another, there's like the sort of mysterious drug lord who takes Milord under his wing. There is, you know, a lot of just basically like, you know, mechanics that you would be familiar with if you've watched like Power or if you've watched Top Boy or whatever it is. I think that the thing that jumped out at me wasn't really, and this isn't really a critique cause I think it's a really interesting gambit. But I do think that working with a lot of non professional actors puts the show at a little bit of a disadvantage if it's also gonna be a little bit cliche in its story. Now that being said, if you watch the first episode of the Bureau, you might say this is a lot like a lot of spy shows I've seen before and obviously it changed. So I'm gonna keep checking out episodes of Bandy. But yeah, it was a little bit of a letdown in so much as I had five minutes of knowing it existed before I checked it out and then was like, oh, okay, maybe this isn't like on the level of Libero yet or whatever. And maybe that's not the intention.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know, it also is a show. You know, the other thing that we might be responding to slightly, I think everything we've said about it is, is probably that's the top line headline and is valid. But I do think that we are still, despite our interest in international shows, we are increasingly unused to seeing pilots that don't have to make the case for themselves within the first 50 minutes. This is a episode of television that was clearly written knowing there were going to be 7 more and potentially 20 to 30 to 40 more due to his stature or due to his confidence. I mean, it's not. Hasn't been renewed, but I'm. But then what pilots are required to do these days in this country, in this industry, is set off the entire sky full of fireworks, blow people's minds like the pits.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

Had to do.

[Chris Ryan]

Like paradise had to do.

[Andy Greenwald]

And. Yes. And then it leaves everyone who's making the show being like, well, now what's the series? Because I burned it all in the first 56 minutes. This show does not burn it all in the first 56 minutes. And I respect that.

[Chris Ryan]

I was going to mention that there is still talk that he is going to return to the world of espionage. In a 2025 interview I read with Rashawn, he was talking about a show called Secret World, I believe that he was working on, which was going to be about agents from five different countries. But he spoke very eloquently in this interview about how the paradigm of spy fiction and spy. Spy stories has essentially shifted and is changing almost faster than a TV show can capture. And that essentially, you know, if you went back six months and were like, what's the state of AI last October, you know, in October versus today, it would be so different. And even the global, you know, the global stage and the changes that have happened in the Middle east, like, it would be very difficult to document that or to reflect that in a TV show. So I think he's maybe not struggling with it, but is adjusting to it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, I mean, it was interesting. I think now, five, six years ago, he had a pilot, the China Room.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Andy Greenwald]

It's called the Chinese Room. That was going to be a return to the spy world. And it didn't get made for whatever reason.

[Chris Ryan]

Was it Peacock?

[Andy Greenwald]

I think that I'm not sure if he was ever set up at Peacock, but I know it was being passed down, but the script was floating around.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And one of the reasons he was doing it is because, you know, you could see in each season of Le Bureau, he was like, the aperture kept getting wider as he was both realizing and engaging with changing shifting tides in the world. And the antagonists kept changing and who is actually behind and who is ascendant in the world. And he hadn't really dealt with China's role in global espionage. No. I mean, so he's going to write

[Chris Ryan]

a show the show is to interconnect like Russia and Syria and Iran. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

So I hope we hear more from him. I think that to that point and more from him in the spy space. But to that point. This is a subtle detail, but one thing that I appreciated in the Bandy pilot is that the fact that all characters have cell phones is a part of the story in a way that doesn't feel intrusive. Time and time again you will see pilots, or probably movies too, where the writers are like, I yearn for a world where characters weren't constantly on their phones. Thus I will create it on screen. Except for the time my one character has to call the other character. And so you feel that artificiality. Sometimes it can be fine and you don't notice it. But it's important, I think, to notice when it's done relatively casually and normally and easily.

[Chris Ryan]

It feels very baked into the world. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike, or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for? That's when prime same day delivery has your back, getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery. It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to find millions of items delivered fast available in select areas. Terms apply. That's it for news. The Madison has been renewed for a third season. Thought I'd mention that to you.

[Andy Greenwald]

Congratulations on your lobbying work behind the scenes on that.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, K Street really came through for me.

[Andy Greenwald]

Let's get TS Street.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's get to the pit finale.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think we should. It's a pretty big show.

[Chris Ryan]

One of the reasons why I wasn't tripping over myself to get to it is I loved it, but it also felt a bit like it was reiterating some of the stuff that had been saying over the last three weeks rather than breaking any new ground. Probably for the best. I don't know that ending on a cliffhanger or, you know, I don't know how many more fireworks this show could have literally. Let's start with Robbie's Darkness, which has been obviously a growing concern over the course of the whole season, but especially in the last couple of weeks with his convers, you know, his conversations with Dana, especially with DU and in this episode with Abbott concerning whether or not he is considering taking his own life. What the purpose of this quote unquote Spirit quest is going to be his helmetless trip to the Dakotas. I thought this was an interesting place to start for this would just be. Did you note or feel like he changed? He moved the goalposts a little bit in what he was saying. As to Duke, previous week, he had said, everything in the hospital makes sense to me. It's everything outside of the hospital that I can't deal with. Yep. Then to Abbott, he was like, every time somebody dies in this hospital, a piece of myself for piece of my soul dies too.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

So what was your read on that? If you noticed it? And. And where. Where are you at with where Robbie ends?

[Andy Greenwald]

He also says, and I thought this was worth noting too, he says that, you know, every good thing he's ever done for the world is in the hospital, was in this hospital. I thought, well, broadly speaking, I really love the finale and I really love engaging with the show, both for what's on the screen and what I can't help but kind of try to mind read are the logistics and conversations and decision making that is happening behind the scenes in terms of what to push forward and what to pull back on. And this shows, I think, pretty active engagement due to its quick turnaround time with its audience and knowing what they might expect and how they could still surprise us. Broadly speaking, it is a bold gambit to build a season this way that having educated us on one season about the craziest, most violent day in the history of the emergency department, probably condition us for something similar and then kind of have that not really be the case. It's a day from hell for any number of reasons. But the Long Night of the Soul is really internal and it's Robbie's Dark Night of the Soul. One of the things. One of the downstream effects of that decision is that as things get quieter and we get closer and more tied to Robbie's head, we start to notice some things, good and bad. And one of the potentially bad things is that he does have a version of the same conversation two to four times.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

I couldn't help but notice that. You also couldn't help but notice then that the show kind of asserted the primacy of this character, which is not a surprise and actually works for the show. If you watch the show under the impression that it is somehow an ensemble piece, I advise you to take a look at the series season posters for season one and two, both of which are pretty much one man's face. But the downstream effects of that are that some characters get nice little buttons on their Season and some closure. Some characters get used for shock value, not in a bad way again, but what's her name? Checking out early for boundaries. And Joy. Joy checking out early for boundaries. Or Jesse getting arrested by ice. But then you also get things. And we could probably put a pin in this and come back to it, but Dr. Mohan's goodbye, essentially being all about Robbie.

[Chris Ryan]

My one note about that was lovely scene. If they had not made a giant public announcement that she was leaving the show, I would not have thought of that as her last scene.

[Andy Greenwald]

Exactly. Ultimately, I really, really respect the gambit, what they did with the season. And I thought they landed it in a way that felt slightly surprising, but ultimately right. And the reason I say that is that when we live like in our real lives, even those of us who are anxious and have like, prone to catastrophizing thoughts, the worst, worst things, the most violent, horrible, hideous things often don't happen. And what you have to deal with is the margins. And dealing with what your day to day is, the nature of the show means that at least one to ten times per episode, the worst, most hideous, violent things happen in the margins, on the operating table or what have you. So what the show can do then is force Robbie to live with the margins of that. Talk about other people's death and what it's doing to him. Flirt with the idea of driving a motorcycle off a cliff like a buffalo, but really be stuck with himself and his best intentions, caring for a baby and his worst intentions yelling at Dr. Alashimi.

[Chris Ryan]

So to your point about it being the Robbie show towards the end of this season, I thought that that's why the Alashemi confrontation was better than just reiterating her or further explaining her,

[Andy Greenwald]

her

[Chris Ryan]

situation, her condition, which is she is long had. She has historically had seizures, but through treatment has been able to get them under control. But experiences too, on this, her first day as the senior attending at the ED to take over for Robbie in his absence.

[Andy Greenwald]

The implication for that is that we saw at least one of them on camera with the baby.

[Chris Ryan]

She had one with baby Jane Doe and that she had one when she was looking at the kid who needed to be questioned.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes. And he caught that one.

[Chris Ryan]

And he caught that one and kind of like sharks around the ED until he can get to the bottom of it. But it's her confession to him, it's her showing him her. Her medical history. And he's just like, bron, is this you? And then they have this nice conversation. At first, although Robbie is starting to be like, it seems like you're trying to talk me into how this is all okay. And at the end of the day, she's like, so we're good. My neurologist said I need to just try this different medication. And he's like, we're not good. You can't be in the attending here if you can't do procedures because you can't always have another attending with you. Which is now explains maybe why she was like, I've decided we need two. Two seniors on. On staff all the time during their big fight that they have in that moment. She says, like, you're making this all about you. Like, you're so, like, narcissistic, essentially. And this is kind of an interesting thing that's happened over the last couple of weeks. And I can't help but also bring in a little bit of the outer pit discourse about, like, I'm ready Robbie as a good or a bad man or boss. Because I don't really, like, let that affect how I watch the show at all. But it. It's. The show's right on the line of giving us enough of other people's opinions about Robbie within the world of the show to have some distance from Robbie as a character while we watch it, versus we're just watching this guy. And it's like, if it's just more guys like Robbie, we're in charge of the world. We'd just all be a better place. And, you know, so a couple of people are like, you're a dick, or you need help or you're a narcissist, but the show is about this guy holding a baby at the end of it and being like, you know what I mean? Like, it's about Robbie. So it's like right up against, like, whose POV are we seeing this guy through?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, I think it's a really good point to make, but I think the show is more subtle than critics might suggest. I mean, it's certainly not subtle in some ways when it does direct to camera address.

[Chris Ryan]

But I don't know if you know this.

[Andy Greenwald]

So Robbie says, the only things I can control are in this room, and that the human stuff is impossible for him. We see it in practice when a pregnant woman arrives in preeclampsia and distress and says, I don't want any medical care. I don't want any medical intervention. Here's what I believe, here's what I want. And then as soon as she starts seizing, the doctors can doctor, you know, which is not presented as like, A great outcome. It's an incredibly tense and dramatic scene, but it is an example. So crazy. And we should talk about it on its own merits. But I'm just saying the show knows what it's doing when it gives them a chance for things to get easy for them when it gets hard. And the show is also being its best self. I think when it ends with Robbie holding the baby, telling the baby that the baby is going to be fine, that everything's okay, and that the baby's gonna have a lot of love in her life. And I will say this is something that. That I've said as a parent. I'm sure Eric Rashant has said this to Capucine, his screenwriting daughter, but he doesn't know that I've said it to

[Chris Ryan]

Vijay Edgecombe, and he doesn't know that either. I've just been like my son.

[Andy Greenwald]

I think in that case, you're right. I think you have some certainty that it's gonna be fine for him. So maybe you're choosing wisely. I just mean that the illusion of control at the heart of the show is woven more subtly through the episode than I think the viewmaxers who are just like, let's pound this.

[Chris Ryan]

Might appreciate the subtle kind of details in Robbie's like. So here's one thing that I thought was really interesting. The sort of action set piece of this episode is an emergency C section where the lives of both the mother and the baby. You mentioned this woman who wants to do a wild birth.

[Andy Greenwald]

Keep saying it.

[Chris Ryan]

And is refused all prenatal care and doesn't want any medicine and is like ultrasounds. And Abbott asks her why, and she's like, women have been giving birth for thousands of years. And he's like, at a like 30% mortality rate. You know, that's. This is crazy. We have all this stuff for you. She starts seizing. She's pre eclampsia.

[Andy Greenwald]

And at that point, she. It becomes full eclampsia. Yeah, I didn't know that.

[Chris Ryan]

I did. Neither did I. That that was a transition. And all the hitters are in the room. The night shift is. Is rocking out. And Robbie is brought in kind of like as the closer. Edwin Diaz coming out of the bullpen. And I thought it was interesting.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, Duran, you're wearing the Phillies hat today, but you're still keeping him guessing. You are appealing to all 50 states.

[Chris Ryan]

He comes in and he sees what's happening, and he's obviously been in and out of this room, and he kind of has his own seizure, like, he has his emotional kind of like, I fucking can't make the last patient I see before God knows what happens to me is gonna be the death of a mother and. Or a newborn. And he has like a moment where they're like, bro, like, glove up, let's go. And then what they do is essentially the pit version of the Heat bank robbery. I mean, it is the most gripping kind of, you know, stomach turning if you, you know, it's among the more visceral things that they've done on this show.

[Andy Greenwald]

It was a masterpiece of technique.

[Chris Ryan]

It was like, I was like, I. I forgot to breathe for two and a half minutes. It was just one of them.

[Andy Greenwald]

What was your Apgar score after that? I was blue low.

[Chris Ryan]

They bring McKay in. It's just an incredible scene, dude. I don't know if you were able to watch it, like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, I.

[Chris Ryan]

As a girl, dad. C sections are cool. Yeah, yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

If it was like a 9 or 12 year old, I'd be like, I can't watch this. But like, it's a nine year old

[Chris Ryan]

falls in a pool.

[Andy Greenwald]

You're like, no, it's a sliding window. You know what I. I care about. What I care about. Yeah, that's how you feel about rookies into the second year player. You're not interested in G League development, guys.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right. What did you think of the scene? Oh, I was just going to say, like, they did not put too fine a point on the fact that the very thing that Robbie is sort of saying is happening to Braun, which is you kind of are unable to do procedures, almost happens to him.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. I also just in that moment, I. In that moment when I'm just watching the technical brilliance of the people who make this show, executing something on such a high level with the choreography of the actors. The performance, the actors, the lighting, the camera movement, the stuff I usually don't even look at or care about, like the. How real does this look?

[Chris Ryan]

Viscera.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. Truly was un. It was, it was unmatched. And I also really liked the way again, like, it's just. It's just these little things that they decided to do, which is. The last two episodes, we will focus very, very intently on one horrific, potentially bad outcome medical scene per episode. Last week it was Langdon resetting the guy's spine.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And this week it was. It was this birth. And look, it's a. It's a five tool player. As a show, they're showing you what they can do in miniature as well as what they've done in the past with chaos.

[Chris Ryan]

So who do we. Ogilvy lost a patient, the teacher who was really nice.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Louis died.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan]

They had a pretty good game.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, there's a. The Someone lost the leg above the

[Chris Ryan]

knee, but it could have been worse.

[Andy Greenwald]

It could have been worse.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Could have been worse. Yeah. So your take on the day was pretty good game, guys.

[Chris Ryan]

For all the adversity that they faced with the digital stuff. It's true. Everybody's really tired. They're charting while they're working and stuff. It's true.

[Andy Greenwald]

Let's talk about the show's relationship with catastrophe, because one thing that happens over time in any TV show, even not medical ones, is we just feel so close, so much empathy, so connected to characters that we really just want good outcomes for them and we want them to win. And often shows start to service the audience as well. I thought one of the smart things that this episode did, and I don't know, I'd be curious to ask, if we get the chance to talk to Noah again, how they discuss this in the writers room, how much thought they give to perception. What I mean by that is there were a number of moments in this episode where even I feel like I have a pretty good read on how the show operates. But even I am not immune to being like. Like Dr. Al Hashimi shouldn't be driving on a roof right now.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. Back to the old, like Don and Sally Draper in a car and being like, please, please don't get an accident.

[Andy Greenwald]

It goes back further to Diana Muldauer on La Law as Rosalind, whatever, stepping into an elevator shaft. You know what I mean? Like that, like there was a. And even Mohan being like, well, is that her last scene? She's standing in the ambulance bay and those ambo drivers get a little wild. They clip the edges sometimes wondering if that was going to happen.

[Chris Ryan]

Whether or not that, like the way that that ended, left the door open for Supriya Ganesh to come back to the show.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, I think the doors are always open for characters on the show, unlike E.R. thus far, helicopters aren't falling on them, you know, like they are just medical professionals in other cities. And the show, which is very smart, can be clever about bringing people in and out for short stays, long stays, callbacks, whatever. So I think that that's always, always in play. Even this season. Not really, not ultimately that important for the storyline. But something to note that they might consider again is when the night charge nurse shows up, you know, at 10:00am as a death Doula. Right. Or that, you know, people have other, like, Abbott people have other jobs. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

They have.

[Andy Greenwald]

They have hobbies and they can show up as patients as well.

[Chris Ryan]

The Alushimi ending note of her in her car I thought was very well done. And I thought that that's a character who has not been given a lot of, like, room to, like, kind of stretch out. She's a very buttoned up character. And I even just like watching her, like, walk out with her headphones in. Like, I was like, this is cool to see this moment with this person. I thought they were setting it up for Robbie finds her. Her, like, water bottle and is gonna go, like, run after her and like, apologizes to her at the car or maybe she does have an episode and he saves her or whatever. So it was interesting that that was not how it end. Basically, like this woman at a crossroads in her life, as are many of these characters. I was going to mention to you the. Well, I want to talk about Langdon.

[Andy Greenwald]

Orlando had a bad outcome.

[Chris Ryan]

What happened to him?

[Andy Greenwald]

He fell off something that was too small potentially.

[Chris Ryan]

He's kind of flipping about it. This is an interesting development over the second season is that, you know, from. From our Hawaiian death prayer to there's a dead guy in the waiting room and Orlando should have picked a higher place to jump from is like a little bit of a change of tone.

[Andy Greenwald]

Little gallows humor.

[Chris Ryan]

We talked a little bit about Mohan. I, like I said, wouldn't have known that she was leaving unless there had been 5,500 articles about it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

What do you think about the Greek chorusification of Whitaker, Mel McKay and Santos and like, basically keeping them around for three episodes after their shift ends to sit at a computer and banter, but having little to no dramatic arc for any of them. Well, other than Mel's sister, I guess there is.

[Andy Greenwald]

I mean, I think that's something that I would imagine they are going to try to look at in. They're just finishing the writer's room for season three, but that they are looking at and what to do. Like, Robbie is the main character of the show and he shares that distinction a little bit, I guess, with. With the Ed itself and maybe Dana as one B. Yeah. There's not a lot of a story real estate to go around on this show. And to that point making the decision that they. He's now said publicly, which is a much shorter time jump. So it does sound like they'll be going from July. It sounds like Thanksgiving to winter. Ish. Yeah. Will allow them to pick up these characters more rapidly and thus continue a story maybe that they've established this season. The attempts to give each one of these smaller characters some individual arc, I think was really hit or miss. If we're looking back on the course of the season, I think that McKay wanting to have a personal life. Great color. Episode to episode, she's giving a great performance, but I don't think that really landed well.

[Chris Ryan]

They're not gonna go out on the date with her, so it's almost like she would have to have left at like 8 o' clock and been like, I have a date tonight.

[Andy Greenwald]

You can't do it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Mel being forced to do a second deposition just doesn't really hit for me.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, not if we're not gonna see the deposition.

[Andy Greenwald]

Also, what was the case? What are the states?

[Chris Ryan]

It's the case fourth of July, where I think her and Ellis did a spinal tap. It's from season one.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, it is. Okay. So I even. So maybe that's my fault that I

[Chris Ryan]

And Ellis was like, I can't talk about what I said, but I want to tell you, like, you're a good doctor.

[Andy Greenwald]

So that might come back. Since Ellis is now also being upstream to the date day shift Javati maybe more successful. Because also that was the most ER in its small moments way, I think the most ER plot line. Because one of the challenges ER had was like, how will we keep these characters here? And her becoming an emergency mental, like, emergency psychiatry. So she's gonna be on the show now. Obviously she's gonna be on the show, but that locks her in. It's like that dude the Pirates just called up and it was like he played two games. Connor Griffin, and they were like, two games. Like, it was a nine year contract.

[Chris Ryan]

The Tigers just did that too. It's a great time to be 19 in the MLB.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's so sick.

[Chris Ryan]

You get eight years, 150.

[Andy Greenwald]

Did you know that? Like, in like, when did we start this pod? 2012, like mid 2013. I went to Bill and I was like, lock me up, please. Ten year deal.

[Chris Ryan]

And he was like, no bet on yourself.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. And look where it got me. Still here waiting for that. Waiting for that payday.

[Chris Ryan]

If the rule you followed brought you back to me.

[Andy Greenwald]

Anyway. Yeah. Like, the difference, I think with. With someone like Whitaker is that Whitaker's role really is mini Robbie. So what Robbie does now kind of reflects on him how he is being a doctor, how he is showing up, what he's. So it's. It's interesting watching the show figure this out. And I. I genuinely don't. Again, with no actual knowledge of what's going on behind the scenes, I really am exhausted by the assumptions by a rabid fandom that there's some conspiracy plot to get rid of Supriya Ganesh and Dr. Mohan. Like, sometimes characters don't take flight, and it's not about the actor. And I'm sure that people involved with the show would never blame her. They couldn't find a place for this character, a place for her to go.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. I also. I mean, like, I enjoy the character. I enjoy the performance quite a bit. One of my least favorite things about TV shows is when they're just like. And we've also added six more people, and yet we're gonna try and make room for the original six, the new six, and all the people in the background. I wanna talk a little bit about Langdon, who I was a bit surprised got the arc that he did this season, I suppose. And this is in relationship to the Greek chorusification of those other characters that I mentioned, Santos especially, who I think was much more central to the first season and in this season is more like kind of like over it and also making a lot of jokes, but didn't really have, like, a huge moment other than her confrontation with Langdon, which I thought was quite good.

[Andy Greenwald]

But this karaoke erasure will not stop.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, because they chickened out and didn't leave the hospital, I wanted to see them rocking out and singing.

[Andy Greenwald]

You clearly turned off the show too fast.

[Chris Ryan]

Did they go to karaoke after the fireworks?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. Oh, I did turn the guy.

[Andy Greenwald]

I was testing you there.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah. How's karaoke? What'd she sing?

[Andy Greenwald]

They sing. You ought to know.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, that's good.

[Andy Greenwald]

She and Mel rocking out on stage together, and that's how the season ends.

[Chris Ryan]

That's just A. My B. You know, that's accountability.

[Andy Greenwald]

Listen, if the Marvel movies taught you anything, it's stay tuned through the credits. You get a little.

[Chris Ryan]

It said Stinger.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, it said executive producer. And then you heard the music.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, come on.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, dude.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. What do you guys want from me? I'm grinding a lot of tape here.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know, you would have seen Conformity Gate, too, if you had just kept it rolling.

[Chris Ryan]

What's Conformity Gate?

[Andy Greenwald]

Isn't that's the Stranger Things episode that came on after the finale?

[Chris Ryan]

Yes. Well, me and some of my large language models are working on that right now.

[Andy Greenwald]

Some of my large language models.

[Chris Ryan]

That's what LLM stands for, right?

[Andy Greenwald]

Sure. Type it into Google. I dare you. It's probably something quite, quite obscene. Yeah. They show karaoke.

[Chris Ryan]

Anyway, Langdon did not get invited. He also took off setting boundaries for himself. Well, actually, he doesn't. He comes back down, has this fight with Robbie. I will say, for a brief split second, I thought that dude was going to have some, Some. Some dirty work in his pockets. When they were like, turn your pockets out. I was like, yeah, I have a perk. What's going on?

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. He did not.

[Chris Ryan]

He did not, viewer. He did not. He was clean and sober, and he does his drug test. Maybe it's a little cocky.

[Andy Greenwald]

Pun intended.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I mean, he does his drug test, he goes up, he sees that MRSA lady lost her leg, but saved her life.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan]

Goes back downstairs and pops off at Robbie a little bit.

[Andy Greenwald]

He does. He's had enough.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know if that's in the steps. You know what I mean? I don't know if that's. That's part of the, the program, but he is just like, like, you don't like, you know, you. I'm doing the work. I, I came back. I showed I belong here, but I could have paralyzed that guy. Like, I don't know what kind of teaching method. And he's like, everybody knows you're, you're on the edge, and you need to get, you need help. I thought that was decent. Because one thing that you will notice if you watch the last three episodes is that Robbie has not made much of a secret of his despair. You know, like, he has talked to Duke about it. Dana obviously can see it. Abbott can obviously see it. If everybody's talking, you know, about this. What did you think of the Langdon arc, and what did you think of that moment with him?

[Andy Greenwald]

I've decided to double down on my number one criticism of the show, which is that someone's got to his hair up. I, I, I, I've thought, I've done some time. I've done, I've done some work. I've done some reflection on how I just called that out a few weeks ago and the reaction it got, frankly, in this room as the least important thing I could possibly care about. And I've decided it does matter. And I hope that the powers that be listen to this note, because this man just worked 15 hours through Savage back pain, which he is treating with.

[Chris Ryan]

I wish I was wearing a Pittsburgh Penguins hat.

[Andy Greenwald]

Right. Which would have had an effect on the. Look, I just want to see that he's been through the day, that we've seen him be through that we've seen him go through. Yeah. Everyone else, like, a little bit. They look a little.

[Chris Ryan]

They look a little bit worse for wear. Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

Not him. Looks amazing. I would say. I'm done. I turned off the episode after that. No. I think that the worst tendencies of the Pit are the fact that within the structure that they've created and the way that they have to process time and story, that when the tide goes out and suddenly characters have a brief moment to talk, there's almost too much pressure on that moment to deliver something that feels as natural and humanistic as much of the rest of the show, when it's at its normal cadence. That happened last week when Whitaker popped off at Langdon all of a sudden. And was it consistent with how he probably was feeling based on what we've seen? Sure. But we've never seen them talk to each other like that, and it felt kind of jarring. I felt similarly about this scene. It was meaningful. It had to happen. It was foreshadowed appropriately when Robbie realizes that he wanted to say something to him before he left and asks Daena where he went. It was better dramatically that it wasn't another learning hug at the end of the season. It gives us somewhere else to go. But also in the flow of the episode as it was delivered to us, it was another one. On one scene where someone tells Robbie a version of, you need help, man.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And we've had a couple of those. It was a different tenor. It was a different relationship.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. We've had screaming. We've had Take accountability. We've had. You're a narcissist. We've had. You've gotta, like, embrace the darkness. Like.

[Andy Greenwald]

Like, we've had hugs.

[Chris Ryan]

And I thought it was actually, like, on, in total, a really amazing portrait of the importance of, like, talking to people and the importance of, like, you know, in some way. I think that this episode or this season has been Robbie's cry for help. And it seems like it's been heard a fair amount.

[Andy Greenwald]

I thought the. Conversely, I thought the Abbott scene was pretty spectacular.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, man. Those two guys blacking out in that scene.

[Andy Greenwald]

He's incredible. And it. It's the right level of intensity. And guys don't talk about feelings. But also some jokes, but also.

[Chris Ryan]

But maybe guys do talk about feelings if they save two lives and, like, just dump a bunch of pads inside of an empty stomach. You know what I mean?

[Andy Greenwald]

I wondered if you were gonna ask about that.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, that's just, like. That's the crazy shit with doctoring, where, like, they'll be like, oh, we have to do all this elaborate, like, don't do this to the vein. And like move that. And like, we're gonna do this crazy laser underneath. And then one part of it will be like, shove a ton of gauze into this guy's gut and let's see if we can stop the bleeding. And I'm like, that is what they did during the Civil War. Like, you guys have to have developed different fucking techniques. Okay?

[Andy Greenwald]

Now to be fair, they did not have gauze.

[Chris Ryan]

We are starting pitchers anymore. Why are you guys still pumping gauze into people's stomachs?

[Andy Greenwald]

I also thought it's a little.

[Chris Ryan]

Get it out.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's what I was going to say.

[Chris Ryan]

Dissolve.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, it's a little bit of a fun game for the friends upstairs.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, that guy is like, find my gauze me 12 minutes ago. What the fuck happened down here?

[Andy Greenwald]

Also, where's all my gauze? Can I reuse it? I really liked, I liked when Abbott. I like the Abbott line about, I'm your emergency contact and I do not want to be contact. I thought that was a great line. And I just thought the way that

[Chris Ryan]

they said, am I your emergency contact?

[Andy Greenwald]

Uh huh. Cool.

[Chris Ryan]

We'll find out. I guess we're gonna find out.

[Andy Greenwald]

I got a motorcycle trip coming up,

[Chris Ryan]

you cut your brakes and just to see.

[Andy Greenwald]

But if you just gotta. What if you got a call being like, thank God we've reached you. You're Andy's emergency contact. HIPAA laws prohibit us telling you much, but his entire midsection is. Is bursting with gauze.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, sounds like you guys saved it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Sounds like you got it. And then you'd be like that George Bush meme. You're like, now watch this drive.

[Chris Ryan]

We got probably a. It sounds like a six month time jump coming. So it'll be interesting to see whether that is geared both because they want to get some. Some autumnal slash winter disasters going. But. And I, you know, maybe we can get like a hockey ring kind of situation, whatever, you know, penguins. But also, like, that would put Al Hashimi and Robbie on track to be back if they want to do that. Great season.

[Andy Greenwald]

Do you feel?

[Chris Ryan]

Loved it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Last thing you know, there's two types of discourse that I. Well, there's many types of discourse that I don't like. But the purposes of the show, one that I really have no time for is like, give this man all the Emmys now. But the second one I also don't like is this blank spin off when that said, this show is just Heaving for a night shift like it is this episode when not only does it let Abbott take center stage, but he is leading his crew in a bespoke chant saying that they are nightcrawlers.

[Chris Ryan]

This is my one prediction.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

For season three is in the same way that they did. Abbott shows up briefly in the first half of the season and then runs like the last three or four is a much bigger presence. I do wonder if we get like three episodes, four episodes of Abbott and Ellis finishing a shift.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, I think we should. I think it would be great to

[Chris Ryan]

start the season just because Ellis is

[Andy Greenwald]

3am brought up to.

[Chris Ryan]

She can go to main cast and then that would be like, that would be really interesting if day shift has to come in and like whatever. What could happen in the morning get like a big, big tractor trailer accident out there outside of Pittsburgh.

[Andy Greenwald]

I don't think this can happen or will happen for a variety of like specific production based reasons. But it has definitely at least been floated that if they could get the timing right, they could run the pit all year by alternating use of the set. By having a set. Could you handle that as a viewer? Yeah, I mean, I think it wouldn't really serve anyone other than potentially future, you know, owner of the hospital, David Ellison. Like, I don't. I think like just in terms of the bastardization of story and attention, it's probably not worth it. But could I handle it? Yeah, like, I actively. I feel quite sad that that was the finale because it's. I enjoy this job, but I also just enjoy having a show like that to watch.

[Chris Ryan]

It's close to the feeling of one of those monocultural shows that we know and love where I feel like anticipation for the moment that I'm gonna turn it on and excitement to talk about

[Andy Greenwald]

it afterwards and just eagerness to turn it off apparently even before it ends.

[Chris Ryan]

That's my bad. I thought when I got to R. Scott Gemmel, it was all I'm all clear.

[Andy Greenwald]

You just keep. There was the dulcet tones of Alanis Morissette.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm starting putting fish fake fake stinger podcast moments where I'm just like, after you've left, I'm gonna be like you should during the credits. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Hey, you could be earning 2% daily cash back on that purchase and that one and even that one. That's because Apple card users earn 2% daily cash back on every purchase, including everyday items they buy online or in store when using their Apple Card. With Apple Pay, not an Apple card customer. You can apply in the wallet app on iPhone subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs bank usa Salt Lake City branch terms and more at Apple Co Benefits this episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike, or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for? That's when prime same day delivery has your back getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery. It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to find millions of items delivered fast available in select areas. Terms apply.

[Andy Greenwald]

The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with FanDuel predictions. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes and misses. Predict the spread, the total points and even the game winner. Sign up for FanDuel Predicts and predict it from the couch. Offered by FanDuel Prediction Markets LLC, a registered Futures Commission merchant. Eighteen plus trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's do Top Shell Chef for a few minutes here.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

So that was the pit finale.

[Andy Greenwald]

Thumbs up from the pit, the hospital to the barbecue pit.

[Chris Ryan]

That's right. Spoilers for Top Chef. And I will say we're gonna get a little bit granular here about Top Chef as a production. So spoilers also for Last Chance Kitchen.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. And we have to.

[Chris Ryan]

I begin at the end.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Is that okay?

[Andy Greenwald]

Do it. Do what you need to do.

[Chris Ryan]

What happened? What happened there? So Seeger loses on the show itself.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan]

You can debate whether or not like, his, he was, was he falling on his sword? Was he making some great hero move to, like cook the whole hog himself and stay up all night and cook the toughest part of the. The pig. I don't know enough about pigs to tell you. You know, like, there was, I, I thought Lawrence did a great job. There were some good looking dishes, but for the most part, this seemed like a very difficult challenge.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And also a complicated one in so much as it was two teams, a captain, but then there was, you know, Justin's cooking, but with like, Jen's milk bread that everybody seemed to love. Yada yada. Seeger loses. I wouldn't say lost, like entirely gracefully. He seems a little bit like, see you fucking soon, dog. You know, to everybody. They go to Last Chance Kitchen and Tom is like, basically like, I can't explain what's going on, but we don't have a challenger for Rhoda today.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, all will be revealed in next week's week's main episode. He says, basically.

[Chris Ryan]

So the I. The operating theory seems to be that

[Andy Greenwald]

next week there's two main. There's two potential outcomes. Yeah, go for it.

[Chris Ryan]

Jen will have to drop out of the competition before even a quick fire starts. And because of that, and because she's sort of been on warning about, like, you have to compete if you're going to be here.

[Andy Greenwald]

65 game rule.

[Chris Ryan]

They will pull her from the competition and Seeger will automatically go back in because he was the last one eliminated. What's the other theory?

[Andy Greenwald]

The other theory is that he threw a hissy fit and said, you guys all suck. I'm out of here. I'm not gonna do your funny little after show. Which has only ever happened one other time.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, really?

[Andy Greenwald]

The guy with the hat who got eliminated first the season two seasons ago, David, I think he made like, garbage. Pizza was his business. No offense, but no. I think his business was literally like,

[Chris Ryan]

you know, pizza, but with everything on it.

[Andy Greenwald]

No pizza with, like, scraps that other restaurants throw away.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah. He was like dumpster diving. Right. And he didn't go to Last Chance Kitchen.

[Andy Greenwald]

No.

[Chris Ryan]

All right.

[Andy Greenwald]

Look at your face. You like people who compete. It's incredible. This really got your blood up. I could see both happening, and I definitely already be. I mean, people do receive what's known as the villain edit often in reality shows. And I express my displeasure at Seeger's attitude towards the children previous week. For example, I don't think he would like the show Bandy at all because he's not interested in people who collaborate with adult children. But I also felt like the Top Chef is as far from the most people's baseline understanding of reality TV as it can get. I think it doesn't really go for soap operatic.

[Chris Ryan]

A lot of, like, interpersonal dramas mostly,

[Andy Greenwald]

especially in the last, I don't know, 15 seasons, just generally uninterested in that. And I think that's to its credit. That said, whether it's the edit or just the guy himself, Seeger was incredibly unlikable over these last two weeks. I felt his, like, the way that it was cutting to him. I mean, one fun thing this season is I am watching it with my kids and like them not really yet knowing the rhythms of a show in which I'm. They don't understand that if you get the interview where they talk about their family or background. That means they're either winning or losing, and you don't know which.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

So the way that Seeger was like, you know, I've trained with Rodney Scott and I've done all these things, was setting him up to lose. But, like, TV can reveal things even if you know it's not necessarily a malicious edit. And he was so tight and so resentful and angry about how things should be done that he was definitely set himself up for failure and set up for a potential. I believe his final interview in this episode didn't look like other final interviews have been like, he seemed to be in a different space, that potentially this was done. And that could be either because he bailed or because he had to film that talking headpiece separate from the normal talking headpiece because of whatever had happened week two.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I don't know exactly. I'd be curious to know, but maybe they wouldn't tell us about when they shoot Last Chance Kitchen in relationship to the episodes. I think in times it has been like this person walked out of an elimination and into Last Chance Kitchen.

[Andy Greenwald]

I've also heard that there have been seasons in which they shoot Last Chance Kitchen over a course of, like, two days closer to the end of production.

[Chris Ryan]

Interesting.

[Andy Greenwald]

If you are.

[Chris Ryan]

Before they go, like, it's basically like you. You win Last Chance Kitchen over the course of two days and go right back into the regular.

[Andy Greenwald]

I believe that's right. It catches you up to that point. Right. Everyone who signs up for the show is committed to, like, a blackout. They have to be there for those four to six weeks.

[Chris Ryan]

But, like, theoretically, like, Nana could have to sit in Last Chance Kitchen for two weeks or something like that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. Or just sit in the hotel.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, exact.

[Andy Greenwald]

The strangeness in Last Chance Kitchen did create a pretty fun. I mean, I kind of liked the chaos of it because Tom was clearly like, I don't know what's going on? And then the nature of the challenge that they had come up with was so bizarre and specific, and, like, he made them put duckheads into everything. But I also kind of liked the fact that there were two chefs there who were eliminated, and he was just like, just come and try to win money.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I thought that was cool. I thought it was cool. I thought it just spoke to perhaps a flaw in the engineering of the television show, like, in the production itself. If, like, depending on when they're shooting this and what. Whatever. And, like, just the fact that you leave an episode of TV and you're like, I don't really understand what happened, but not on a cliffhanger. Way more in a. Like, Tom seems unprepared for what's just happened. Did you have any other big notes from the show itself?

[Andy Greenwald]

Just another great challenge and what's been a good season. I really like that they made them do something incredibly specific and hard. There was no quick fire. It was a whole hog cook all night. People went a little nuts staying up all night. I definitely. Who do you like? What do you think is easier? Neither is easy, but do you think it's easier to stay up all night and then plate a delicious hog dish, or stay up essentially all night and then deliver a baby and save a mother suffering from eclampsis?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. The question is, is like, have you ever done the, like, my flight is so early. I'm just gonna stay up all night?

[Andy Greenwald]

No, I can't do that.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, that's, that's the. I, I, I think in any situation, I would be like, I'm gonna go get a couple hours of sleep somewhere.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, my brain needs to shut down for a second. So I would rather personally, just for the, just for the memories, do the C section.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know, that's not where I thought

[Chris Ryan]

you were gonna go, but I could be the gauze guy because it's like, it just seems like that's just like, put a bunch of gauze in the stomach.

[Andy Greenwald]

Did you. First of all, you're saying technique to that. People about you.

[Chris Ryan]

Edge come up and under.

[Andy Greenwald]

You could be like, did you see the video of the. Of the kid who sunk the half court for ten grand at the Sixers game?

[Chris Ryan]

And then fucking Maxi and PG came out to him?

[Andy Greenwald]

That's you. Even longtime listeners probably don't understand that. There was a period about 20 years ago when you had spent a lot of time watching House MD and thus sort of fancied yourself a bit of an. An amateur medicine man. And anytime anyone was slightly ill or perhaps hungover, your suggestion was a towel of indeterminate temperature.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Sometimes cold, sometimes hot.

[Andy Greenwald]

We turn to you like the wise sachem and be like, chris, I'm suffering from these ailments. And you'd be like, hot towel around the neck.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think that was from House.

[Andy Greenwald]

You don't think.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, I think I was watching House, but I think it was more just like, I need you to rally,

[Andy Greenwald]

you know, like, that's probably true too. It's probably true, too.

[Chris Ryan]

Speaking of sports.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah. Switch it.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm wearing Eagles green, and that's what I want to Talk to you about

[Andy Greenwald]

my wardrobe choices last night during the

[Chris Ryan]

Sixers play in game?

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

First of all, I found you very quiet yesterday and not particularly chatty with me. That's fine. These days happen. But I didn't think that you were engaging with me.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, do you want to talk about that?

[Chris Ryan]

No, that was fine because that's not abnormal. What I didn't like is that when Zach and I were texting about, about the Sixers incredible performance against the Orlando Magic.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

The only sporting event that anyone cared about. That last night, you were like, you guys are so loyal.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And I was like, don't do that.

[Andy Greenwald]

I, I, No, I don't.

[Chris Ryan]

This is a safe space where we talk about our obsessions and our. And our fandom. And you're like, you guys really like the Sixers? And I was like, are you. Are you being held for fucking ransom? Like, what is going on?

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm. I'm kind of of. My heart has been bruised too much. I'm kind of in prove it mode with them. Like, I kind of.

[Chris Ryan]

It was Wednesday night. What were you doing?

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, clearly I had a full day. And the fact that it's driving you crazy. You don't know what I did yesterday.

[Chris Ryan]

It's okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

I. I was monitoring the situation.

[Chris Ryan]

I.

[Andy Greenwald]

But I think that you had eyes on the game.

[Chris Ryan]

Are always such an ebullient, like, gregarious fan. You're just like, guys, because, hello, brothers. Like, what Philly sporting event is happening today? You're like, you guys like this shit, huh?

[Andy Greenwald]

First of all, it was a bit of a brushback pitch because I have definitely sent a disproportionate share of Andrew Painter texts. Slash, do you think we're going to get Kenyan Sadiq at 23 texts and frankly, some crickets, some mock draft content I sent your way, no one responded

[Chris Ryan]

to, well, that was Barnwell. And then being like, this won't happen, but what if it did?

[Andy Greenwald]

First of all, it wasn't Barnwell. It was NBC SportsPhiladelphia.com so click the link. Anyway, this is why journalism is collapsed. This is why you're like, it's probably Bill Barnwell.

[Chris Ryan]

I love Barnwell. But I was like, I. I saw that on ESPN.com and I was like, this is speculative. You didn't even see it.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, you don't even know the fantasy situation that I was sharing with you for no reason on a Tuesday at 3pm okay, the. The Sixers, man. Like, come on. Come on.

[Chris Ryan]

You. You don't understand there. It's Jekyll and Hyde, man.

[Andy Greenwald]

I do understand.

[Chris Ryan]

And every time it's Jekyll, Joe is out there. It's like watching a brontosaurus, like, move across a pasture, and you're just like, this is not fun. But when it's Vijay and Maxi and playoff p. I know, but you clear.

[Andy Greenwald]

You're still trusting. Here's the thing. I love Dr. Jekyll. I am a patient of Dr. Jekyll. I make appointments to see Dr. Jekyll, and then I'm. Well, I'm. While he's examining me, I'm like, you want to hang out sometime?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

I've gotten too close to Dr. Jekyll. Do you know what Dr. Jekyll is like when you get too close to him?

[Chris Ryan]

Dr. Jekyll, Joel Embiden.

[Andy Greenwald]

No, it's the fucking team. Because then I'm like, yeah, maybe this team has a chance. Then Paul George is suspended for taking drugs.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Andy Greenwald]

And then I'm like, hey, Dr. Jekyll, you're looking good again. And then Dr. Jekyll's like, oh, my appendix is just burst before the playoffs have begun. I don't have the.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, okay.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm battered. I'm old.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, I don't want you to ever think that when I don't respond to your draft.

[Andy Greenwald]

Draft.

[Chris Ryan]

Your deep, deep, deep draft lore, that it's anything about, like, it's not that I don't find it interesting, but I guess what I should do is be like, you sure do read a lot.

[Andy Greenwald]

Yeah, I do. I read a lot of New York review books, content. Like the great Nancy Lemon book that I'm reading. The lives of the Saints, New Orleans, and the 80s. Come on, you're gonna love this book. I also read a lot of draft content.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

I'm very excited about. About the upcoming NFL draft. I am.

[Chris Ryan]

I have a tape. Too hot for you.

[Andy Greenwald]

Before we. Before we go to that, I would also say that the reason why I was particularly salty about the Sixers is because I did peek in on our fight and fills.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

And it's just.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Hey, don't eat. You know what they say. Don't even check the standings until game 60. It's all noise. It's no signal.

[Andy Greenwald]

Who says that?

[Chris Ryan]

The rates and barrels guy at the athletic podcast.

[Andy Greenwald]

Whoa.

[Chris Ryan]

And they were like, don't even worry about it until game 60. It's like, yeah, you could have a disaster season. And at game 60, you might not be in it, but, yeah, it's all noise. The signal doesn't start till game 60.

[Andy Greenwald]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Andy Greenwald]

That's very calm.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I love that.

[Andy Greenwald]

Do we have a rule about that for television shows? Because I've never found it.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I mean, that's the problem with TV is that I'm not hanging out till game 60. It's too long. You know, I honestly, like, I'll be completely honest. As we're doing After Dark, I realized why I don't like reading reviews is that if I get warned off a show, I'm not really looking forward to the prospect of watching eight hours of Beef if it's not good.

[Andy Greenwald]

Right? But what.

[Chris Ryan]

I'll watch anything that's a bad movie. I don't give a shit.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know what I mean? Oh, for sure. It's a time thing.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. But it's just, like, eight hours of, like, something that doesn't work out and is, like, kind of not focused. But who knows? Maybe the critics are wrong and maybe we are the critics that matter.

[Andy Greenwald]

You know, it's possible. Or maybe we are gonna turn vegan from it. What's your hot draft take?

[Chris Ryan]

I can't share it on a recording. What? I mean, I will share it, but, like, then we have to cut it. I'll be completely honest with you. This is. Sorry. Sorry. Just don't mean to offend anybody.

[Andy Greenwald]

Beat this. This is gonna be great.

[Chris Ryan]

When that was my draft take, and we didn't. We didn't include it in the podcast because

[Andy Greenwald]

Daniel Jeremiah could never.

[Chris Ryan]

Thanks to Andy Greenwald. I thought you did a really good job today.

[Andy Greenwald]

Thank you, but I am just. Just rookie numbers compared to what you've done today.

[Chris Ryan]

Sarah, Kaya, Kai, thank you so much for being here. And thank you so much for w. My last pod. If that tape ever gets out. And we'll be back on Monday. Euphoria Beef. Margo's got money problems.

[Andy Greenwald]

Oh, it's a big show for us.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Big show. Big, big, big show.

[Andy Greenwald]

And we'll talk about. Since I didn't realize you were so swayed by reviews, how engaged you are with Euphoria season three.

[Chris Ryan]

The reviews.

[Andy Greenwald]

Well, no, you. You just were like, rune, reviews are bad. I don't want to watch it now. You're like, it's Levinson time. Big Sam coming through. Nobody has his finger on the pulse of young America. More.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, honestly, you got a point there.

[Andy Greenwald]

Also, I keep going along for the ride.

[Chris Ryan]

I love it. Thank you for riding shotgun with me. See you guys on Monday. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big wireless way too much, please, for the last love everything good in this world. Stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month, of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Andy Greenwald]

of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail].